ML20238C638
| ML20238C638 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Three Mile Island  |
| Issue date: | 01/13/1987 |
| From: | Kitler E EBASCO SERVICES, INC. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20238C505 | List:
|
| References | |
| CIV-PEN, EA-84-137, NUDOCS 8712310124 | |
| Download: ML20238C638 (137) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I __________________x In the Matter of: :
Docket No. 50-320 (Civil Penalty)
GPU NUCLEAR CORPORATION :
License No. DPR-73
'- (Three Mile Island Nuclear Station, : EA 84-137 Unit No. 2) :
i l_ ------------------x Pages 1 through 133 Nuclear Regulatory Commissiott 100 Brown Street Middletown, Pennsylvania Tuesday, January 13, 1987 Pursuant to notice, the depcsition of EDWARD JOSEPH KITLER was taken before me, John Anthony Kelly, Notary Reporter, commencing at 9:39 a.m.
lf APPEARANCES:
GEORGE JOHNSON, Esquire i COLLEEN P. WOODHEAD, Esquire l United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of General Counsel Washington, D.C. 20555 (For the Nuclear Regulatory Commission)
KENNEDY P. RICHARDSON, Esquire Thelen, Marrin, Johnson & Bridges
, One Kaiser Plaza, Suite 1950 Oakland, California 94612 (For GPU Nuclear Corporation)
Commonwealth Reporting Company, Inc.
700 Lisburn Road
'A Camp Hill, Pennsylvania 17011 Camp Hill Philadelphia (717) 161 7150 (215) 7p.1667 8712310124 871209 PDR T ADOCK 05000320 PDR
1-A APPEARANCES (Continued):
,q J. PATRICK HICKEY, Esquire V Shaw, Pittman, Potts:& Trowbridge 2300 N Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20037 (For GPU Nuclear Corporation)
O l
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Commonwealth Reporting Company, Inc.
700 Lisburn Road Camp Hill. Pennsylvania 17011 Camp Hill Philadelphia
( (717) 761 7150 (215) 73216b7
_ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . . 1
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1 C O N T E-N T S j 2 -WITNESS ~ DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT- RECROSS 3 Edward' Joseph Kitler-By'Mr. Johnson 3 4 By Mr. Hickey 128 5 E f H l'g 1 T g 6 NUMBER FOR IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE 7 Kitler Deposition Exhibit'No.
8 1 .(performance evaluation). 26 --
9 2 (interoffice memorandum) 61 --
1 10 3 (affidavit of E. Kitler, 64 --
l-l October 1, 1984) 11 4 (interview.by T. Brown) 117 --
! 5 (interview by D. Aulick)
. 117 --
14 15 16 17 18 i 19 20 21 22 23 i
24 25 COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761 7150
'1 3 1 P_ R,Q { E E Q I_ N_ q S, 2 Whereupon, 3 EDWARD JOSEPH KITLER 4 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
7 O Mr. Kitler, good morning. I am George Johnson.
8 I am counsel for the NRC staff in the proceeding which is 9 captioned "GPU Nuclear Corporation." It involves imposition 10 of a civil penal,ty against GPU Nuclear for events arising 11 out of events that occurred on Three Mile Island Unit 2 in -
12 1983 concerning allegations of discrimination by the company fm v)
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13 against Richard Parks.
14 I am going to be asking you questions about these 15 events and the background to it.
16 Would you please state your full name and current 17 address?
18 A. Edward Joseph Kitler. It is 335 East Palm Drive, 19 Florida City, Florida.
20 What is your current employment?
0 .
l 21 I l A. I am a systems engineer for Ebasco Services.
22 Where is that? Do you have a business address O
23 there?
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V 24 A. Houston, Texas. -
l 25 g Where are you employed; where physically? l COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 l
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.1 _A The facility, Turkey Point..
2 0 What work do you do there?
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3 A I am a systems engineer.
4 G At the time of the events'in question _that we're 5 concerned with, you were employed by Bechtel North American 6 Power Company?
7 A That's correct.
8 'O When'did you first come to-work for Bechtel?f
.9 A' I believe it was June of 1972.
g
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10 .What position did you have'when you first started
- 11. with them?'
12 I was a design engineer, a mechanical' design A
13 engineer.
14 g could you just briefly take us up to the time you
-15 first were employed at Three Mile Island Unit 2 in terms
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16 of your employment history briefly?
II A With Bechtel?
18 0 Yes.
19 A okay; I started with Bechtel in '72. I started as 20 a mechanical design engineer. I worked for a short time on the 21 Perry project. When that project was cancelled or cut back, 22 I went on a rotational program to the start-up department in 23 the office.
() 24 I worked with the start-up department for approximately,a M year. Then I was transferred back to mechanical design and COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
3 5
~N 1 assigned to the SNUPPS project for about a three-year period.
(O 2 After three years, I determined that I liked start-up better 3 and I requested a transfer back to start-up; and I was sent 4 to the Davis Besse site in Ohio as a start-up engineer.
5 g About when was that?
6 A That was about 1976.
7 g Okay.
8 A After about nine months up there, I returned to 9 the office and worked as a start-up engineer in the office 10 and had --
11 g The office was?
12 A Gaithersburg, Maryland.
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\- / 13 g When you said office before,you also meant --
14 A Gaithersburg, Maryland.
15 g Thank you.
16 A. I worked on numerous short-term projects in the 17 office -- well, in and out of the office. I would go out 1
18 for approximately six weeks to three months at a time. ]1 19 Some of these projects included Bowline Point fossil I 20 unit, Marquette, Michigan; a fossil unit for Cleveland Cliffs j l
21 Iron Company.
I 22 I'm just wondering whether it would be a lot simpler :
1 23 if I could just send you a copy of my resume. .
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(,,) 24 0 I would like if you could just -- i 25 A It probably would be a lot simpler if I just l I
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'l ' summarized'the whole thing.
2 g Okay.
.3 A. Basically what I had was about nine years.as a 4 ' start-up engineer, start-up supervisor for Bechtel, and three 5 years as a design' engineer, about six months planning and.
-6 scheduling, a year as a recovery engineer up at Three Mile 7 Island. This was when I left Bechtel in I believe it was ,
i.
8 the latter part of 1979.
9 Q You left Bechtel'to --
10 A. To go to work for NUS,who then sent me up to 11 Three Mile Island. I worked with them for about 15 months 12 as a rad waste shift engineer and possibly the last four 13 weeks as a start-up engineer.
14 Then I went back to Bechtel --
15 0 Could I stop you just'for a second? -When did you 16 switch from Bechtel to NUS?
17 g,- I believe it was' August of 1979.
18 When did you go back to Bechtel?
0 19 A. I'd say it was around November of 1980 20 And you were working from August of 1979 forward 0
21 at the TMI site, or did I misunderstand what you said?
22 A. Yes. From August of '79 to November of '80, I was 23 at Three Mile Island working for NUS. I 24 g And then you went to Bechtel --
25 '
A. I went back to Bechtel.
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.1 1 G, At:that= time?
2 A Yes. ;
3 0- And you were at thefsite from 1980 with Bechtel?,
4 JL- No. 1They sent me to a fossil unit in' Florida. ;
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'5 0- Which was that? '
i 6 A That.was The Sanford Coal / Oil Mix Project:in
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7 Sanford,' Florida.
t 8 G How long.were you there?.
9 A About six months.
10 0 Did you then return to Three Mile Island?
11 A No. I returned to the office in Gaithersburg; and. i 12 as soon as I got back to the office in Gaithersburg, they?sent.
O 13 me to a fossil unit in Venezuela.
14 0 When was that? When did you'come back from 15 Venezuela?
16 A well __
17 0 When did you get to the site?
18 A When did I wind up back at Three Mile Island?
19 0 Right.
20 A After I came back from Venezuela, they then sent 21 me to Turkey Point in Florida. I finished up there in I believe ;
22 it was around March of '82. At that time then, they sent me 23 up to Three Mile Island.
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- (_j 24 g At Three Mile Island in March of '82, what was your j 25 position?
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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't l' A I went upras'a group leader'for a procedure writing Os ' group.
2 I wrote.the procedures for the Quick Look Program.
3 0; Could you continue? What did you'do next?
4 A After-that program was completed, they asked,me 5 to remain at the island and take over for the start-up-6 manager, who'was Mike Herlihy at that time. I took over --
7 well', they changed it from a start-up manager to a. start-up 8 supervisor position; and I took that position over in I believe 9 it was September of '82
-10 g Let me backtrack a little. What division'of TMI-2 11 were you working in when you first got to the islan'd in .!
12 March of '82 as a procedure writer for the Quick.Look Program?'
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\ 13 A I was working under site engineering reporting to-14 Rich ~Gallagher.
15 Was he your Bechtel supervisor as well or did you
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16 have another supervisor?
17 A No. He was not my Bechtel administrative supervisor. Jl 18 Actually,at that time, George Collins, who was the chief 19 start-up engineer in Gaithersburg,was my administrative {
l 20 supervisor.
21 g Did he continue to be your administrative supervisor l c
22 through this period when you -- let me just go a step at a 23 time. In September of 1982 when you became start-up and
-p] 24 test supervisor, did Rich Gallagher continue to be your on-site 25 supervisor? I COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
L7 : 9 y 3 A. When'I became the start-up andftest supervisor,
; there was'a reorganization and Rich Gallagher reported to 2
3
. Dave Buchanan as_ deputy manager or something, and actually 4
Dave Buchanan was'my new supervisor.
5 .G. Rich Gallagher was a Bechtel employee?
6 A. Correct.
7 G And Dave Buchanan was a-GPU employee?
.8 A. Correct.
_g 0 So for function, you were then reporting directly 10 to a GPU employee?
33 A. Correct.
12 g At that time, who was your administrative supervisoz?
13 A. George' Collins quit'Bechtel somewhere during this 14 Period-and Any Wheeler took over as the chief start-up 15 engineer.
16 I don't really remember exactly what time it was. It 17 may have been around November.
18 O Just in terms of your positions and who you were 19 reporting to and so on, I'd just like to take you through the 20 Periods in question here.
21 You continued to be start-up and test manager until 22 .when at TMI-2?
23 A. Well, the supervisor. Like I said, they downgraded )
24 the position to a supervisor position.
25 G Oh, supervisor. I'm sorry.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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- 8: l10 1 A I remained. start-up and test' supervisor until, I 2 guess, September of 1983.
3 g What did you do.then?
4 A. I was transferred to Turkey Point.in Florida.
5 g And you still worked for Bechtel?
'6 A. - Yes, at that time.
7 0 You worked at Turkey Point as a start-up and test 8 engineer?
9 A I was the lead start-up engineer for Bechtel.
10 0 Are you still employed by Bechtel?
11 A No. I'm employed by Ebasco Services. i 12 Oh, yes; I'm sorry.
O' _
13 When did you leave Bechtel?
14 A Shortly thereafter. Around December of '83.
15 0 Were you working at Turkey Point when you left?
16 A. Yes -- well, I just completed an assignment at l 17 Turkey Point and I was getting transferred to Wolf Creek, i
18 - Kansas; and I quit at that time.
1 19 I O And you've been working for Ebasco since then?
20 A. No. I went to work for a subcontractor. Basically, 21 I subcontracted myself to a utility.
22 g Did the subcontractor have a name?
23 A. Yes; BCP Tech Services.
24 0 Where is that located?
25 New Orleans, Louisiana, A. i l )
! I COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l i
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! ,g 1 -G When did you first meet Richard Parks?
2 A It was while I was working for NUS at Three Mile i
3 Island. It was probably I'd say in the early part of 1980. l 4 0 Did you have a personal relationship with him or 5 a work relationship or both?
6 A Both. We were actually friends. I got to know 7 Rick personally there for a while; and then finally just before 8 I left the island, he and I were both assigned to Mike Herlihy 9 as start-up engineers and we worked fairly closely together 10 for a short period.
11 0 You were both start-up and test engineers working 12 under Herlihy, who was then the start-up and test manager?
/~s k,,) 13 A Correct.
14 ' O That was, what, August of 1982?
15 A No. That was I'd say probably around August, 16 September of 1980 17 0 We're talking about when you were NUS employees; 18 I'm sorry.
19 A Right.
20 0 And you worked as NUS employees on start-up with 21 Parks for Herlihy?
22 A Correct.
23 G Let me just go back. You then left NUS and you had
() 24 25 other assignments. What was your opinion of Rick Parks as an !
eningeer during that period of time?
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I A I thought he'was a competent engineer and had a
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2 good attitude and was very energetic, t
3 g When you were transferred to -- well, you went to 4 Bechtel in November of 19807 5 A Correct. I quit NUS and went back to Be'chtfl .
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6 g What happened to Parks during this period? . /-
\ h 7 A He remained at the island. As a matter of fact, 8 I called him on the phone a few times and talked to him on 9 occasion. .
10 g You moved around a bit. He was at the island during.
11 a period, and then he went to Shoreham? g '
O 12 g yes, 1 O
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k/ 13 g During this period, you kept in contact with him? {
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14 A I phoned him occas'ionally! l( ,
15 g You went to Veneguela. That would have been a ?
16 little difficult, I suppose. '
17 A Well, you know, Iwasonlydownthereft{r[about 18 six, eight weeks, I guess.
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D Were you then next in close proximity with him when 20 you returned to the island in March of '82? Is Yant the next 21 time you started associating with him again?
22 A Yes. The thing is, the phone calls I made to him t
i 23 over the period of years, there weren ' t that mpny. We're
() 24 talking probably about two or three phone calls. Either I 25 called him or he called me for some reason or another.
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1 I think the next time I heaud .7from him war around 2 March of '82; and at that time, I guesd td hea;/d from Ben #
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.t 3 Slone that I was heading a group for Bechtel writins drocedures .
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4 He called me and wanted to know if there was any chanch of tj 0
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1 6 0 Were you friendly also with Ben Slone?
I 7 A. I just met Ben Slone when I came up to the island 8 in March of 1982 You know, I liked Ben and got to know him.
9 He's a pretty nice fellow.
10 0 When you returned to the island in March of '82, !
i 11 you were working on the Quick Look procedure writing?
12 A. Correct.
%- 13 And what was Parks doing at that time?
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14 At that time, he was in Shoreham as a start-up A.
15 engineer. He indicated to me that he.would like to return 16 to the island. I talked to my supervisor at chat time, who 17 was George Collins, and I also talked to Rich Gallagher about 18 bringing Parks down to go ahead and assist us in writing the 19 Quick Look procedures; and both Parks and my supervisor, 20 Collir.c, believed that he would be a help, and Bechtel made 21 him an offer of amployment.
22 As T recall, he joined in June or July of '82?
G 23 A. I think it was early -- well, the latter part of ,
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,O Q 24 May, maybe.
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l 0 May; okay.
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2 g And you worked together with him on the Quick Look 3 Vprocedurewriting?
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9 5 g And that continued until August when you were P
6 appointed as start-up and test supervisor?
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,* 7 7. Yes. Even though the Quick Look Program was ,
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) 8 basically done, we were like in a state of limbo and more or 9
9 less were held around to update procedures. We did a lot 10 of odds and edds work, a lot of things that came up that l l
11 nobody else either wanted to do or was assigned to do. We l
12 picked up that work.
L 13 0 When you returned to the island; once you were 14 appointed to this start-up position, you worked for Buchanan, 15 you said?
16 A Yes.
17 g And Wheeler was your administrative supervisor.
' 18 A George Collins and then Wheeler. There was a short 19 period when George Collins was still my supervisor. I believe 20 George left Bechtel in November of '82.
21 g Once Parks came to the inland in May, were you 22 his administrative supervisor?
23 A. Yes. I was his administrative supervisor the entire f"
- l 24 time he was at the island.
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25 g What was your working relationship with Parks l COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l
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j'"} 1 during the period -- did I ask you what your relationship s/
2 was with him when you were working on the Quick Look procedures?
3 A No.
4 G Would you describe that?
5 A. We had a good working relationship, first of all.
6 I thought he was a competent engineer.
7 0 He worked for you, basically?
8 A Yes. He was able to get things done. He knew a lot 9 of people on the island and was able to go ahead and process 10 things through. Plus, the other thing is that we had a prettyi i
l 11 good personal relationship. We'd stop for a beer after work 12 or maybe have a picnic together or something like that. I
/) ' 13 0 Can you describe the circumstances of you being I4 appointed to be start-up and test supervisor?
15 A Well, there was a reorganization on the island.
16 A lot of people were switching positions. I believe Herlihy I7 was being switched over to another position, head of some I8 committee or something. So that had his position vacant.
19 I guess I was one of the candidates for the position.
20 I think it was shortly thereafter that Herlihy resigned 21 before he was even assigned to his new position.
22 g So you succeeded Herlihy in his old position?
23 A Correct.
rm 24
(,] O But it was downgraded from manager to supervisor? l l
95 A Correct. !
l COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 i
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1 D' Herlihy, as I recollect, was a GPU employee?
2 A Yes,Lhe was.
3 0 Would you know what department of GPU he was l
4 associated with?
l 5 A Not'really. I'd just be. guessing.
6 G 'Does Licensing and Nuclear Safety sound --
[ 7 A No . ,
8 G That doesn't sound right.
I' 9 A I believe Herlihy reported to John Barton, 10 0 John Barton?
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11 A Yes; but, like I say, I'm not positive. !
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12 O You're not sure; okay.
13 So, from August 1982 until -- was it until the time you L 14 left TMI, you were start-up and test supervisor?
L 15 A: Yes. It was the latter part of August, the beginning
'16 of September, somewhere in there.
17 0 What was your working relationship -- you were 18 Parks' administrative supervisor during this whole period, 19 but what was your working relationship in terms of official ---
20 and then we can go on to the other parts of it -- but what was 21 your official relationship with Parks from the time you took 22 over as start-up and test supervisor?
t 23 A. Once I took over as start-up and test supervisor, i
I
( 24 I basically had nobody under me. I was a one-man show. j i
25 Normally the workload was such that I could handle it.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 I
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1 In instances where we had procedures to write or testinc 2 .to.do and I wound up.not being'able to handle the workload, 3 'I've gone to both Bubba Marshall and Rick' Parks at times and 4 requested them.to help me_with preparing procedures,'doing 5 testing,aand we basically had a pretty good working relation-6 ship. I mean,.there was-no requirement.for these. people.to 7 help me. It was more or less them doing me a personal favor.
8 0 Do you recall during this period from the:end of-9 August until the.beginning of December who Parks was working to for in his organization?
11 ' A. Yes. He was assigned to.the site operations. group, 12 and he was working-for Larry King.
.O 13 Q. So it sounds like King provided Parks -- or did 14 Parks do this on his own?
15 A. No. Larry King was aware that Parks was helping 16 me out with these procedures; and as long as it didn't interfere 17 with his workload, he had no problem'with it.
18 Did you have a good working relationship with 0 i 19 Larry King? j 20 A. Yes, I'd say so.
21 Could you describe the circumstances that led to 0
i 22 your requesting Parks to be the alternate start-up supervisor ]
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23 on I think it was December 6, 19827 l 24 A. Yes. There were a few instances where, you know, 25 : I was planning some vacation time coming up either over the i l
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(~ I holidays or possibly the beginning of the year; and if I was
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2 not at the island, I was the only one in the start-up group --
3 well, I was the start-up group -- and there wouldn't be any-4 body there to sign return-to-service forms or any of the other 5 items that came up.
6 So at that time, I talked to both Larry King and 7 Dave Buchanan and asked for permission to have Rick Parks 8 assigned as my alternate when I wasn't on the island. At that 9 time, Rick was probably about the only possible candidate 10 there. I think he was about the only one that was certified 11 Level III, 12 Start-up and test engineer?
O f r 13 A. Right.
14 O And you were certified to at least that level?
15 Level III is the A. Yes. I was certified Level III.
16 highest. ,
17 I was wondering whether there was a IV.
0 I see.
18 Okay.
19 Once you had asked Rick and he was appointed--you 20 designated him?
21 A. Yes.
22 0 That designation was approved by Buchanan? i 23 Yes, both Buchanan and Larry King.
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- 24 What sort of work did Parks perform in that !
l sv 0 25 capacity, if anything? i COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 f
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/~N 1 A Basically, it wasn't too much. The only real need
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2 for Parks to do anything was like if I was gone or something 3 and somebody came through with a return-to-service form that 4 required immediate attention.
5 g During the period from December 6th of.'82 until 6 after Parks left the island, on how many occasions did you 7 take vacation or were you away so that Parks had to do this 8 sort of thing?
9 A Probably just on two occasions.
10 g could you tell me which those were?
11 A I'll tell you that without actually looking back 12 at possibly the time sheets I had or whatever, it would be
(,
13 difficult, because there may have been a day here or there.
14 I was on assignment up here myself and my home was 15 back in Maryland.
16 g Let me just tell you that I was reading your former 17 transcripts, and you did take vacation either between the 18 2nd of 11 arch and the 7th of March of '83 or the 3rd and 7th, 19 sometime in there.
20 A I believe I took vacation between Christmas Yes.
21 and New Year's.
22 And then this later time?
0 23 A Yes.
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(,) 24 g Were these preplanned vacations? l 25 The one in March was preplanned maybe about two or A. ;
l COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l
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!v) 2 G And the Christmas was --
3 A Was spontaneous. I found out there wasn't too much 4 to do and it looked like a good chance to get away for a couplc 5 days.
6 G From the time that Parks was designated to be your 7 alternate, it doesn't sound like he was working that much with 8 you or did he continue to work --
9 A No, he wasn't. Like I said, it was just times when 10 a situation arose that had.to be handled immediately and I 11 wasn't there.
12 O There was some discussion in your earlier deposition r) w, 13 statement to I think it was Mr. Stier in '83 that the way you 14 ran the test working group requirements under Administrative 15 Procedure 1047, that you sort of had an ad hoc operation to 16 get the necessary sign-offs.
II A Yes.
18 0 Could you describe that?
19 A Yes. One of the things Mike Herlihy tasked me with 20 before he left was to rewrite the AP 1047 procedure. Another 21 thing was to update the TWG membership; because I believe at 22
! that time that out of five members and five alternates, there I
23 f were only four people that were still in similar positions t' \
24 at the island. The other six had either left the island or :
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! 1 25 had been reassigned to different departments.
I COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 I
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1 What I did, as far as having procedures approved at LJ 2 that time, I would go to the responsible department and get 3 one of their responsible engineers, usually one that knew the 4 most about the system I was either working on or the work I 5 was doing , I'd go to the person who was the most familiar 6 with the ' specific task and have him review it and sign it of f 7 for the TWG member.
8 G So there are five different departments that are 9 listed on.there? >
10 A Yes, j l
11 O Recovery engineering and -- 1 fx 12 A I believe there was site operations, plant engineeri.ng.
13 site engineering, start-up and test, and the last might have 14 been recovery engineering.
15 g QA, 16 A QA; yes, that's correct.
17 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. May I interject? Which 18 period of time are we talking about, because I think some of 19 those departments ceased to be as a result of the reorganization? '
i 20 BY MR. JOHNSON:
21 What period were you talking about?
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22 A I was talking about prior to December. There was 23 a period there for about six months that everything was -- you l
O' 24 know, you didn't know what the name of the group was that you l
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25 were dealing with for a while. The thing is, the characters I
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l 2 MS. WOODHEAD: Perhaps you can identify if this is 3 before or after the September of '82 reorganization. That is 4 sort of a hallmark.
5 THE WITNESS: Even after the '82 reorganization, there 6 were still some changes going on.
7 MR. HICKEY: If it's helpful,-is it accurate, Mr. Kitler, 8 that the September reorganization didn't take place overnight, 9 one day, to say the least?
10 THE WITNESS: That's correct. j 11 MR. HICKEY: I didn't know whether your impression was 12 that September 1, everything changed. Because if that was your
() 13 impression, I don't think it is accurate. It is a process that-14 went on.
15 THE WITNESS: It changed by day.
16 BY MR. JOHNSON:
17 A little bit at a time?
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18 A. Yes; sometimes a lot at a time and then changed 19 back.
20 p. You didn't do anything to update the AP 1047 !
21 membership at first, I take it?
22 A No, I didn't. The thing is, I had very little 23 turnover in the job. It was one of those things where I went
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COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l
21 23
/ 1 We'd try to sit down and'go over a few things, and 2 .w e'd'get constant interruptions with either things relating; 3 to sta'rt-up or things relating to the new' position he.was 4 supposed to take.
5 g- When, Parks was designated your alternate in 6 December of '82 and then forward,-I'take-it he was not called-
.7 up to do much in.the way of sign-offs or reviews.
8 When you had this ad hoc kind of --
9 MR. HICKEY: . Wait a minute. You made a statement'that l 10 I thought was going to lead to a question, but then you stopped i
11 and went on to something else. I don',t know ii you --
12 BY.MR. JOHNSON:
O 13 O That's correct, isn't it?
14 MR. RICHARDSON: Let's hear what the question is. Can 15 it b'e read back?
16 MR. JOHNSON: I can rephrase it. It was simple enough.
17 BY MR.-. JOHNSON:
18 From December of '82 with the designation of Parks, 0
19 I mean, did he perform any of the review functions for you? j I
.20 in other words, you were talking about ad h'oc sign-offs. i l
21 A. We're talking about two different things here. )
d 22- First of all, acting as my alternate, he was to sign return-to- )
23 service forms and such items; okay?
24 L 0 Right.
25 A. Now, as a member of the site operations group, I COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
- _ . = _ . - - . . - -- - . _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - - _ _
' 22; 24
. (~N 1 would.go to Parks several times for review of procedures, 2 because Parks was one of the knowledgeable people in that
-3 department.. I would eitner go to him or Bubba Marshall for 4 review of some of'the start-up procedures I had.
5 As a matter of fact, I would go sometimes to either 1
6 Bubba or Parks and actually have them write the procedures, 7 but that was operating as -- what should.I say -- someone in 8 the site operations department doing review work for start-up, 9 not as my alternate.
10 'O But what I was trying to get to was: he didn't
> 11 really function as your alternate except when you were away?'
12 A Right; absolutely.
13 When he functioned'as your alternate, MS. WOODHEAD:
14 did he do so individually or was it necessary for the group 15 of TWG to make --
16 No; he would do so individually.
THE WITNESS: <
l 17 MS, WOODHEAD: I see.
I i
18 (Discussion off the record.) {
i l
19 MR. JOHNSON: This may seem out of order; but when we )
t 20 first started, we never went around to. identify who was at the 21 I think if we didn't, we should.
table.
22 We gave the reporter our names before MR. RICHARDSON:
23 we started.
) 24 MR. JOHNSON: Let's go off the record for a second. l 1
25 (Discussion off the record.)
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
- --- - _ -_ --- - ---- _-_-____A
23 25 i
MR. JOHNSON: Back on the record.
( ) 1 2 I have identified myself for the record as being 3 George Johnson, Counsel for the NRC staf f in this civil penalty 4 action involving GPU Nuclear Corporation and Mr. Kitler has 5 identified himself.
6 Mr. Richardson, would you identify yourself?
7 MR. RICHARDSON: My name is Kennedy P Richardson. I 8 am with the firm of Thelen, Marrin, Johnson and Bridges, 9 representing GPU Nuclear Corporation.
10 MR. HICKEY: I'm J. Patrick Hickey with Shaw,'Pittman, i
11 Potts and Trowbridge, Counsel for GPU Nuclear.
12 MS. WOODHEAD: Colleen Woodhead, Office of General fs k 13 Counsel, U.S. NRC.
14 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. I'm sorry for the interruption.
15 .Let's go off the record.
~
16 (Discussion off the record.)
17 MR. JOHNSON: On the record.
18 BY MR. JOHNSON:
19 You said you were the administrative supervisor 0
20 for Rick Parks?
21 A Yes.
I 22 I have a performance evaluation that was supplied O
i 23 to me, which is an evaluation of Mr. Parks. I would like to l
/~T i
_,/ 24 show it to you. It is for a period from 5-27-82 to 8-27-82. ;
I 25 I'm going to ask that it be marked. I will write down on the i
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 I ;
24- 26:
( 1 . document, "Kitler Deposition Exhibit No.-l."
l 2 (Whereupon, the document was marked.
as Kitler Deposition Exhibit No. 1 3- for identification.)
4 (Document handed to witness.)
5 (Witness perusing document.)
6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
7 0 You've had a chance to look'at it?
8 A Yes.
~
9 0 .My question about it is: it seemed a'little bit 10 . odd to me that the evaluation' period was from 5-27-82 --
11- A For a three-month period.
12 G For a three-month period that' ended in August. Yet, C 13 it seems to have been filled out on the 1st of February, 1983.
14 Could you turn to the second page? Is that correct?
15 A. Yes. I checked the dates there.
16 0 Is that correct?
17 A I believe what happened to this was -- well, it's ;
i 18 I Bechtel's policy to evaluate new employees after a three-month 19 period. Okay? I think what happened was our people in the l 20 office didn't realize this and they sent this out to me later 21 on. I believe I got it sometime around September or so. I 22 I filled it out in September and sent it back to the 23 office. I believe there were some changes that had to be done 24 to it and it was sent back up to me, and I refilled it out and l 3
25 I sent it back in again, t l
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 1
25 27
[~}
x_-
1 0 Did you do a performance evaluation for Mr. Parks 2 for the periods'following that period?
3 A No, I did not.
4 0 Why not?
5 A Okay; the next performance evaluation would probably 6 be after a year, which would be around March or April -- no; 7 about May. The latter part of May would have been the end of i
8 his year's period. !
9 Q So you did a first quarter and then you waited to 10 the end of the year?
\
11 A Yes. I believe it was either -- I believe BechtqJ 12 fs does an evaluation after three months. They are constantly 13 changing their evaluation policy. It used to be six months.
14 Then they changed it to three months. Then they used to do 15 evaluations yearly after that.
16 Anyway, I believe the next evaluation was due in either 17 six months or at the end of a year. At this time, I really 18 don't know what their evaluation policy was. I've gone as long 19 as two years without an evaluation.
20 So, as far as you know, Mr. Parks wasn't evaluated G .
I 21 again before he left the island? l l
l 22 A. No. l I
23 He wasn't?
0 24 A No , he wasn't. If he would have been evaluated, 25 I would have been responsible for doing the evaluation. .
l l l COMMONWE ALTH REPCRTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
26 28 (Pause.)
(]
D 1 MS. WOODHEAD: Can I take a minute to ask a question 2 while you're thinking?
3 MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
4 MS. WOODHEAD: You stated previously, I believe, that 5 Parks was the only Level III start-up and test engineer at 6 Unit II at the time you asked that he be appointed to TWG; is l 7 that correct?
8 THE WITNESS: He was about the only Level III that was --
9 what should I say -- accessible. I believe John Barton was a s
10 Level III and there were a few others, but these were manage- l 11 ment type people and just wouldn't have the time to assume the 12 additional duties.
/ 13 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. I think the preceding 14 question spoke about his being appointed to TWG.
15 MS, WOODHEAD: Right.
16 MR. RICHARDSON: I don't recall that as the testimony.
17 The testimony was he was appointed to be the alternate start-up 18 manager.
19 THE WITNESS: Run that by me again, i 20 MR. RICHARDSON: When you said he was the only accessible '
21 Level III start-up engineer, were you referring to that as a 22 consideration as to why you asked that he be your alternate i
23 start-up supervisor?
i
[~N I
(,,) 24 THE WITNESS: Right. That's why he was the alternate; I 1
25 because he was the only Level III that had the time to devote ;
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 1
_______.___.._______.__.____________.___________a
L27 . 29 t 1
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to it.
2 MS.-WOODHEAD: Alternate for TWG; correct?
3 THE WITNESS: No; alternate for.the start-up and test 4 supervisor.
5 ~ MS. WOODHEAD: Oh; in your position under the recovery .
6 operations?
7 THE WITNESS: Right. You were not required'to be a 8 Level III to be a TWG member.
9 MS..WOODHEAD: Oh, I see. So we were talking earlier 10 not about his position as alternate on the test work group, 11 :but acting as your alternate in your daily position, solto- 1 12 speak, in recovery operations?
13- THE WITNESS: Correct.
I4 MS. WOODHEAD: Oh, all right.
15 I believe his position was MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me.
16 in site engineering.
17 Yes, site engineering.
THE WITNESS:
18 Isn't site engineering part of recovery MS. WOODHEAD:
19 operations?
20 THE WITNESS: To be honest with you, I don't even 21 remember.
22 MS. WOODHEAD: Okay. I'm just recalling the organiza-23 tion chart, and there was recovery operations.
() 24 THE WITNESS: In the year I spent there, they changed i
25 Since then, I've been to about three or t
groups and whatever.
i COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 ! i
- 28 30 ;
/
(%s_,) 1 .four different sites, and it all blends together.
2 MS. WOODHEAD: That's okay. It's not important. ,
l 3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
4 0 When you designated him as your alternate supervisoz, I
5 did you also separately have to authorize him to be your 6 alternate on TWG or did that just go with the turf?
7 A That just went with the position. The start-up 8 and test supervisor is the chairman of TWG. So, as my alternate, 9 he would also be the chairman of TWG when I wasn't there. 4 l
10 0 And you probably would have issued some kind of a i 11 note or something to designate him as your alternate on TWG7 12
/--] MR. HICKEY: Pardon me?
\
si 13 i THE WITNESS: No, I hadn't.
l I4 MR. JOHNSON: The question was whether he wrote a i 15 written designation.
1 b 16 THE WITNESS: A separate memo, 1 i
17 MR. HICKEY: Okay.
18 THE WITNESS: No, I hadn't.
19 BY MR. JOHNSON:
20 0 During this period of time until Dwight Walker 21 gets into the picture, my understanding was Dwight Walker 22 came on site in December.
23
,, -s A I believe it was January, wasn't it?
\s,/ 24 0 In January. Was there anybody available other than l i
3 Parks, except for Walker, that might have been qualified as a j COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l
29 31 ID 1 Level -- I assume that Walker was a Level III engineer.
U 2 A. Yes.
3 0 Was there anybody besides him during the December- i 4 January period that might have served as a replacement, a 5 substitute for Parks?
6 MR. RICHARDSON: Somebody who was accessible, as he 7 mentioned before.
8 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 0 Maybe you can explain -- I think you said accessibl 10 meant it wasn't a high level manager. l i
11 A Yes; somebody who had the time to devote to it.
n 12 You wouldn't want to go busting in on John Barton to get him
( l
%) 13 to sign a return-to-service form. He has plenty of other 14 things to do.
15 0 Was there anybody else that could have done that?
l 16 A. I would say that Parks was the best choice. I l
17 looked through the files, and I don't believe -- Mike Herlihy 18 kept a file of all of the people he had certified as Level II 19 or Level III test engineers. I went through the file and I 20 believe Parks was the only one in there that was certified l 21 Level III, 22 0 When did Walker come to your attention as a possible' 23 substitute for Parks?
24 A. When he showed up at the island. You know, I've 25 known Dwight Walker for a long time. I've known Walker for : i l 1 l
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMD ANY (717)761 7150 l l
j
s_ -
' l 130: 32 I ,e' 1 - probably seven or eight years before he showed up at the 2 island.. I was very. familiar with his background then and 3 his capabilities. I' worked a number of jobs with him prior .
4 to this.
5- g 'And he showed up in January. Was it early January?.
6 A' I think it was --:yes; it probably was early 7 January, right after the holidays.
8 G Did you talk to him.during'the January' time period.
9 about the.' possibility of him replacing Parks as your alternate 1 10 A 'Well,. I . talked to. him about. possibly giving me a 11 hand with doing some'of the. start-up work. What precipitated 12 this was:I had a flush that-had.to be done just prior to 13 Christmas, and, you know, being up here without my family, 14 I wanted to return for-the holidays; and I was running around 15 Christmas Eve trying to get somebody to do this flush for me 16 and nobody would'do it. Everybody.had their own things to-17 do, and I wound up staying Christmas Eve doing this flush 18 and decided, hey, I'm not going to do this again ; I've got 19 to' find somebody that I can really put the collar on.
20 When-Dwight showed up, I talked to Dwight about:giving 21 me a hand with some of this work. The thing is, even though 22 Parks would give me a hand from time to time, it was a 23 secondary job to him. His responsibilities in the site ,
O 24 operations came first.
25 If I could get somebody out of site engineering, it COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l L--____- - --_____:_.
- h, 33 1 .would be more thei'r responsibility to get the job done.
I 2 would have, say, a little.more control over them, if you want 3 .to call it that. You know, I could go to,'say, Buchanan or 4 whatever and say, "This has got to be done," and he could' 5 'actually' assign him to-do that.
6 0 How much would you characterize Dwight Walker's 7 activities in this regard has -- let me phrase it a little 8 more clearly.
9 How much. assistance.did Dwight Walker give.you during 10 the January, first part of. February period,.say up till the ,
11 15th of February, in this?
. 12 A. To be quite honest,.not that much. Like I said,
'13 the demands for the start-up and test group -- you'had a small 14 ' trickling of work coming in all the time, but very seldom did 15 you get something in that you-couldn't handle.
16 Like I said, the last time I had something in that I 17 couldn't handle was right before Christmas.
18 O Did you have an occasion to ask Parks to do any of 19 this kind of work between the time you came back from Christmas 20 vacation and the 15th of February?
21 A Well, one thing, this instance just prior to 22 Christmans when I had to get this flush done, I went to both l
23 Bubba Marshall and Parks trying to get assistance from them ;
24 and they were just tied up with other responsibilities.
25 You know, that was the last time I had a crisis; and COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761-7150
32 34 January rolled around, and I -- like I said, I knew Walker for
{) 1 2 a while; and when he got up there, I chatted with him. I just 3 asked him how he would respond to giving me a hand now and 4 then with some of these responsibilities. Then later I talked 5 to Gallagher about it.
6 G What were the circumstances that led you to, in 7 fact, request that -- well, I guess it wasn't a request. You 8 actually designated Walker as your alternate supervisor and 9 also your alternate representative on TWG, 10 What were the circumstances that led up to that?
11 MR. HICKEY: Beyond what he has described, do you mean?
12 MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
13 THE WITNESS: Like I said, around January when Dwight 14 showed up, I talked to him about it; and then later on I 15 talked to Buchanan -- not Buchanan-- but Gallagher about it, ar.d 16 he agreed with me.
17 I guess it was in the latter part of January or the beginning of February before they said to go ahead with it i
18 19 and probably around the middle of the month before I actually 20 came out with a memo.
21 BY MR. JOHNSON:
22 g So you're saying that you talked about a substitution 23 sometime --
24 A In the latter part of January.
25 Q In the latter part of January?
I l
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 i
'3
- 35 1 A Yes. I actually talked to Dwight the earlier f~)}
2 part of January and probably Gallagher the latter part. l 3 G About substituting Walker for Parks? j 4 A Actually, it started out with just having Dwight 5 give me a hand. okay? Then finally when I talked to Gallagher ,
6 he said, "In what capacity is he going to be doing this?" He 7 said, "We've got to have some sort of designation for him.
8 I just can't have a guy out of the site engineering going over 9 and doing start-up work."
10 0 And this was the end of January, beginning of 11 February, somewhere in there?
-~ 12 A Yes. Then I said, "Well, just go ahead axi_make him C 13 my alternate;" because at that time Parks was tied up with 14 a lot of things site operations was doing and I really wasn't 15 _getting that much response from him on some of the things I 16 had to do, going back to December again.
17 0 You said this to Gallagher?
18 A Right.
19 MS. WOODHEAD: Would it have been possible for you to 20 separate the activities of the alternate for your daily 21 activities as start-up and test manager from the activities 22 as the start-up and test representative on the TWG group?
i 23 MR. RICHARDSON: Could you read that question back,
\ 24 please? i 25 (Whereupon, the reporter read from the record, as l
requested.) i COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761 7150 L_-_______-_--________-
A 36 0[ \, 1. MR. RICHARDSON: For clarification, I gather what you-2 are asking him is: could he separate out the task of helping 5 Mr.-Kitler.with regard-to things like~the flush and procedures 4 from tasks which are discreetly related to being the alternate 5 start-up manager. Is that correct?
6 'MS. WOODHEAD: No. I'm asking if.it would not have' 7 heen possible to obtain Walker's assistance in the start-up-and test activit'ies that you' engaged in on a daily basis and'
~
8 9 leave Parks as the start-up and test representative for the 10 TWG review' group.
11 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. There hasn't been 12 testimony that Parks was the start-up representative to'TWG.
13 MS, WOODHEAD: There was earlier, I believe.. We 14 discussed it.
15 MR. RICHARDSON: As an alternate. The testimony was as 16 an alternate, Parks would have that capacity.
17 Correct; as an alternate representative MS. WOODHEAD:
18 to TWG, yes. !
19 THE WITNESS: Actually, what I was talking about.--
20 back in December when I made Parks my alternate and also in 21 January when I went ahead and actually changed that to -- ,
22 excuse me -- in February when Dwight Walker was my alternate, 23 I wasn't really giving much consideration to the TWG 1
24 representative function at all; because, basically, TWG had I 25 never, as long as I was start-up and test supervisor, TWG had COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
37
- 335 .
- ( 1 never. functioned.
2 At that time,.according to the records, there were only
.3 four~ active TWG members. EIn my mind, I didn't even'think'about 4 TWG, really.
5 LikemI mentioned. earlier, the way we would go ahead-6 and get TWG approval and all was just'by going' ahead toLthe' 7 specific people in each department and having it reviewed by-
.g the most. appropriate person in that department.
9 MR.. JOHNSON: I'd like_to pick up.on that.
10 (Pause.)
11 BY MR. JOHNSON:
12 JG You testified before Mr. Stier on July 27th, 1983 13 concerning the replacement of Parks, and I'd like you to look 14 at your prior statements, because they are pertinent to what' 15 you'just said.
16 I would direct your attention to the middle.of.page 7 17 through the top of the next page through the first three 18 paragraphs.
19 A. (Witness perusing document.) ,
l 20 MR. JOHNSON: Why don't we take a five-minute recess 21 at this time.
22 (Recess.)
23 24 25 COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
.I s
Y 38 1 J
3 j-s T2:jl i BY MR. JOHNSON: ]
! l N i 2 0 You, I assume, have had a chance to look at those H 3
Paragraphs that I showed you? J l
4 A Yes. ) 1 5
g I was particularly concerned with the sentence on 6 page 8 where you say, on line 6, "Since Parks brought up 7
these issues, I decided to update the TWG membership, and g after the 23rd we would have the TWG membership review and 9 approve the load test procedure."
10 Would you please tell me: doesn't that indicate that 11 your testinony in 1983 was that you decided to update the TWG 12 membership because Parks brought up issues about the polar
' 13 crane load test procedure?
14 A I think what I meant by that -- okay; Parks 15 started talking about TWG being active in this and TNG being 16 active in that, and, really, there were four members in TFG; 17 there were supposed to be ten. There were actually four 18 members that were still operating in some sort of capacity 19 similar to what they were before.
20 One of the things Herlihy had tasked me with back in 21 September was updating the TWG menbership. It was something 22 that he had wanted to do for the last eight or nine months, ;
l 23 too, and he just kept putting it off. But it was sorething j A
() 24 that we were functioning without the membership being updated, 25 and finally when Parks started makina all these demands that COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 l
39 j2 1 we've got to do it this way, we've got to do that, we've 2 got to -- the thing is, I had no other choice but to actually 3 go ahead and send a memo to each supervisor and say: hey, l 4 supply me with the names of, first, somebody responsible for 5 the TWG committee, and an alternate.
6 I got response back from every department, each one of 7 the five departments.
8 G But if he hadn't raised these matters, it might 9 have gotten put off still further, I take it?
10 A Yes; true.
11 Like I say, we were functioning and meeting the intent 12 of AP 1047 by having reviews by responsible people in each O 13 departnent, but they were not designated TFG members.
14 You seem to be disagreeing with Rick Parks about G
is the question of verbatim compliance with AP 1047.
16 g yes, 17 0 And you, as I recollect it, in the comment resolu-18 tion that he -- Parks submitted, on the 17th of February, some 19 comments on the polar crane load test procedure, and, as I 20 remember, recovery engineering sent back comments on those 21 comments, rejecting the idea that AP 1047 had to be verbatim 22 conplied with; and you took the position -- you concurred in 23 their position, it seems to me.
() 24 A. Right. What had happened is, I don't remenber 25 whether it was February 22nd or 23rd, we had a big meeting, COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
$3i '40 C s 1
and Blaine Ballard came'in and spoke to us and told us tha,t 9 3:
2 we could either cjo ahead and have verbatiy corpliance_with %l
'y % ,
3 1047 and do the polar crane that way, chan'ge the procedure, l' 4 or'we could go ahead.and have. it performed as a const 3 ruction 3 _ , f 5- test.and later on review the test documentation and See p
> T' 6 whether it met the requirernents of the functional 5est we 7 would have to do in the start-up group and have it substi-h.
8 tuted as a functional test'after it was performe as.a con-9 structionLtest.
s I .
10 This is the stand that -- Mike Radbill and'I got x
11 together after the meeting and'.said: "okay, it daunds great s
12 to us; we'll go ahead and do it as a coristruction test. You 13 guys go ahead and test it out, document everything. We'll; '
14 have TWG review the documentation, and if it is acceptable, !
+
15 we'll go ahead and accept it as meeting the requirements of^a 16 functional test and not perform a functional test. <
17 So you were of the opinion that it wasn't neces- :
0 q 18 sary to have verbatim compliance vith AP 1047,. and apparently 19 Parks did, and you were willing to go with -- the substance 20 of it was net and that was sufficient?
21 A yes, __
22 0 And the format didn't have to be --
23 A. --if we were going to do it as a construction test, 24 you know, based on what Blaine Ballard told us.
25 0 And you knew you were going to be away during this COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 j
41 4
,esy 3 period, so that if you hadn't designated soneone else to be b 2 your alternate -- Parkt, would have been your alternate when 3
the TWG met; you knew after the 23rd that the TNG would meet 4
because he had suggested it, I believe, Parks had suggested 5
it, and perhaps other people had suggested it, and it was 6
ther. determined, I think, -- you tell me if I'm wrong --
7 that you determined that the THG vould meet sometire around ]
8 the 23rd of February.
MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me; I'm a bit confused. Before 10 you mentioned the February 17 comments, which also mentioned 11 that.
12 MR. JOHNSON: Right. Okay, let me back.up. That was l
13 pretty confusing, I must admit. .
I 14 BY MR. JOHNSOM:
i 15 0 I suppose the question should be: when did Parks' 16 comments come to your attention? :
17 A I think it was later on February 18, later in the 18 day. I think probably late-morninc. I believe Mike Radhill 19 called me up and discussed them with me.
20 0 And that was the same day that you designated l 21 Walker to replace Parks; is that correct?
22 A I believe the meno may have been dated that day, l i
23 G At the time that you did that, did you have --
() 24 25 MR. IIICKEY : "Did that" is going to be vague.
COMMONWE AL7H REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
n-__ _ - _ . _ _ . .
-j 5 42
~sr 3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
I NJ
2 O At the time that you designated Walker as a sub-3 stitute for Parks as alternate manager and alternate on TWG 4
for you, were you intend.ag at that point to convene the TMG?
5 A. No. I had no intention of convening TWG at that 6 time.
7 0 Mhen did you first have that intention?
g A. I think it was probably about the day before.
9 When was it that they met; was it the 23rd?
10 MR. HICKEY: I don't think that's right.
33 BY MR. JOHNSON:
12 0 I was going to get to that. You wrote up sore b)
C, 13 minutes of a meeting of 2/25, February 25th, of which you 14 and Gallagher were the only signatories, and you testified, 15 I think, that it did meet en the 25th. But you referred to a 16 meeting of the 23rd as well.
17 A. Yes. I believe we had a meeting with Blaine 18 Ballard, okay. It was a meeting with -- oh, God, there must 19 have been about 12 people in there, I guess.
20 0 On the 23rd?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. HICKEY: That was not a TMG meeting?
23 THE WITPESS: No. That was a meeting that Bahman There were 'vo meetings, I Felieve, !
24 Kanga called, I believe.
25 the 22nd and 23rd. I remember Kanga was there at one time CCMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
j6 43 3
and mostly got evervbody together and said: hey, straighten
(
2 this out. Then tr.o aext day everybody got together and we 3 were supposed to find out what Rick's problems were and get s
4 them taken care of and whatever. And I think it was at that i
5 time that we decided to go ahead and convene a TWG meeting.
6 - BY MR. JOIINSON:
7 0 The 23rd.
g A You know, it is rather difficult for me'to remember 9 back that far.
39 G But that would have been -- you're referring to 11 the 23rd of February?
12 A I believe so. 1
) 13 0 Going back to the 18th, could you describe pre-14 cisely what the process was by which you wrote this memo and 15 had it signed on the 18th of February?
16 A I think I prcbably prepared the draft of the memo 17 before that and then gave it to the typist, and it was prob-l 18 ably about a day or so before the typist actually got to it, 19 actually got it out.
20 0 Do you remember when you wrote it?
21 A it might have been the day before, the 17th.
22 (Pause.) ;
I I 23 0 I am going to show you an exhibit from the depo-l 24 sition of Joseph Chwastyk which occurred on December 1, 1986.
(]
'G 25 I think you have probably seen this document hefore. It says I.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
j7 ,
44 3
" Comment Resolution" --
- , (,-)g'"
2 MR. HICKEY: Can you give the number, the number of l
3 the exhibit, for the record?
4 MR. JOHNSON: Yes. I'm sorry. I think it is Exhibit 5 7. Yes; it is Exhibit 7. Actually, it's the rejection of his 6 comments on February 28 and the meno from Lake to King; it 7 is attached to that. It has the reasons for the rejection l
8 on the form, but it does have the original comments that l
9 Parks made on 2/17/83.
10 BY MR. JOHNSON:
33- B I would like you to look at that, and then I will 12 have a question for you. Just review what his comments were.
'O (,,/ 13 MR . ' IIICKEY : Is there a particular comment you're 14 going to ask him about, or do you want him to go through all 15 of them, because there's a good number of them.
16 BY MR. JOHNSON:
'17 0 Well, let me point to number 2, for example, 18 " General. TWG, Test Working Group, is required to approve 19 this procedure for AP 1047."
20 3. " General. Test procedure does not conforr to ,
21 AP 1047 in format compliance," et cetera.
l 1
22 4. " Unit work construction" -- is that what that is? {
)
i 23 A. Yes.
I'%~/) 24 G -
"was not approved by TWG; therefore, it is not 25 a legal procedure."
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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! j8 45 l
1
-s 3 There are many like that in which Parks says that TUG t
( i
'~ has not approved this, and, therefore, it is not legal.
l 2
3 A Okay. So what is your question?
)
4 0 My question is: when was the first time you be-5 came aware of these comments?
6 A I believe Mike Radhill called me up late in the 7
morning on 2/18. I believe he got these late in the evening g of 2/17. Then he contacted me -- well, he contacted me the g first thing he could get ahold of me on the 18th, which was 10 just probably before noon.
33 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. By way of clarification, 12 were you asking when was the first time the witness physically p
's_ 13 read the comments, or first became aware of their existence?
14 BY MR. JOHMSON:
15 0 Phat were you describing?
16 A. The first time I became aware of their existence, 17 Mike Radbill called me and he told me that he got the corrents, 18 and I went up to Radbill's office and just sat down witBShim-19 self and probably two or three other people; some of the 20 people -- I believe it was U.S. Crane that they hired then as 21 consultants to help prepare the load test procedure.
22 O And this was around noontime on the 19th? l 23 A Just before noon.
1
[' 24 G Just before noon.
%- l 25 Did you discuss with Mr. Radhill Parks' connents saying 4
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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1 that Parks believed that in order to have a legal procedure, 2 that the TMG had to be convened to approve it?
3 A Well, when I read these I said, " Yeah, I knou l 4 what'he's' talking about." I said, "All we've got to do is 5 send them to the different departments and get the different 6 people to approve the procedure, and basically you're doing 7 that right now," because if you take a look at the load test' 8 procedure -- I don't know if there is a copy of it here --
9 but it basically had sign-offs in there for all the affected 10 departments that'the TWG representatives would be from.
11 Q I have that, too. .
1 12 A You know, they are not listed as TWG representatives, i
N 13 but there are five departments listed, which were the same 14 people that would supply representatives.
15 0 So when you were discussing this with Radbill, your !
16 testimony is that you didn't discuss the -- well, let me ask 17 you: did you discuss the possibility of convening the TWG, !
18 physically?
19 A. No. No. Uhen I looked at those comments I thought, 20 " Hey, that's no big deal. You just go ahead and have the 21 people sign it. I'll talk to Parks, and I'm sure there will 22 be no problem."
23 Ther I vent and talked to Parks and it s 'as, " Hey, do I
(N 24 know this guy?"
I
(,j/
25 MR. JOHNSON: Off the record just for a second.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
47 jl0
-s 3
(Discussion off the record.)
I )
2 MR. JOHNSON: Back on the record.
3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
4 0 Could you describe the circumstances of the con-5 vening of the TWG meeting of February 25?
6 1. (No response.)
7 0 First of all, -- maybe I'll be more specific -- who 8
was in attendance at the meeting?
l 9 A I'll tell you, to be quite honest with you, I don't 10 really remember too much about that meeting. I've gone 11 through some of this stuff last night and sort of je;geC my 12 memory on some of it. that actually happened on that 25th, 13 I'm not really too positive. I was getting ready to leave; I 14 was going to leave for a short vacation right after that, and 15 about the only thing I could remember is that we had -- I 16 believe nick was making some comments about, you know, how we 17 were going to do the polar crane load test; and I basically 18 convened the TWG to go ahead and get everybody to concur that 19 we would go ahead and do the load test as a construction test, N and then go ahead and review all the documentation after we !
21 got it back from construction, and verify that it met the 22 requirements of a functional test, and then fire it off as a 23 functional test.
- /%
24 O And that was one of the options that was discussed
(}
25 at the February 23rd meeting?
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
jll 48 1
A- Right. This is the attitude that I was taking, ex 2 and -- wasn't the 25th a Friday?
3 0 YeS-4 A Yes.
5 (Document handed to witness.)
6 MR. JOHNSON: I just showed the witness a calendar.
7 THE WITNESS: Yes. Because I had plans to be gone the 8 following week.
9 BY MR. JOHNSON:
io G I'm sorry?
11 A I had plans to be gone the following week. I don't 12 know whether I was in on the 28th, but I think I was gone g.
13 from the 1st through the 7th, 14 G So you were anxious -- I don't know if " anxious" 15 is the right word; I don't want to put words in your mouth.
16 You wanted the TWG to meet to discuss the process by which --
17 A. Yes. I was planning to leave, and I wanted to go 18 ahead and get this whole thing put to bed and get everything 19 straightened out. I figured if I would get the TWG together 20 there, get everybody to agree to this, you know, then I could 21 go on vacation and not worry about it.
22 O Was Parks at this meeting?
23 A yes, 24 MS. WOODHEAD: Did you have a full complement of TWG 25 membership at that time?
I c _ _ m, ._,,~ c c _ ,,,,,,e,..
l 49 C jl2 1 THE WITNESS: Yes. j j_ l '
i l
\~# MS. WOODHEAD: When was that arranged? I 2
f 3 THE WITNESS: I believe it was sometime around the 17th i
4 or the 18th that I requested each department to go ahead rad 5 assign TWG members, and by that time I had a memo back from 6 each department designating who their TWG membership was. It 7 was the first 100 percent, valid TWG meeting we've ever had.
8 BY !1R. JOHNSON:
9 G The 25th? -
10 A Yes.
11 0 Do you have copies of those memoranda or 12 designations?
,r5
(_) 13 A. I'm sure they are available.
14 MR. HICKEY: They have been produced.
15 MR. JOHNSON: They have been produced?
16 MR. HICKEY: Yes.
17 MR. JOHNSON: I guess I have them right here. Just a H' second.
D' (Pause.)
i 20 I think they were in our first production, MR. HICKEY:
21 George.
22 BY MR. JOHNSON:
23 g These are documents that I got from GPU in dis-24 covery. This is February 18, 1983, from you to Buchanan and
[)
v 25 a list of people. It says you appoint Ualker to act in your COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
4 50'
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1 behalf as start-up and test supervisor.
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2 This one is February 23, 1983, and it i= to'Kitler 3 from~ Buchanan and appoints Gallagher as a member and Kenneth' 4 -- is that site engineering?
5 A Yes..
6 O Then you've got an appointment on the~24th, there 7 is a memo, Parks and Marshall are appointed for site _ opera-g tions by King. And this is to -- no; that's.to Herlihy, isn't 9 it?
10 A Yes; this is the one where --
I It' 0 'That's Herlihy, too. There's one or two missing,.
12 it looks like.
13 A The thing-is, there were responses from allithe 14 departments. You know, one of the things --
15 Q Excuse me. They just-came in that time frame be-16 tween the 18th and the 24th, it looks like?
17 A Right. I believe it was around the 17th or the 18th 18 that I requested everybody to update their membership.
19 What had finally happened is -- you know, for the long-20 est time we functioned without TWG, Then finally it became 21 rather evident that we were going to have to use the TWG 22 organization. I finally said, "Okay, what we've got to do is i
23 we've got to sit down and go ahead and set this up the way it i r 24 should be."
I' 25 Originally, TNG was set up to provide a system of COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 .i
{E- -
l 51 jl4 g I checks and balances, so many representatives from each V- department; and the way it was set up, we had -- well, 2
3 basically it wasn't set up; you didn't even have TNG. Eut if 4 you wanted to go ahead and meet it with the member; we had 5 then, you wound up with about three out of four people out of 6 site operations. So that's when I went ahead and actually 7 requested everybody to go ahead and provide a member and an 8 alternate. I asked Buchanan to go ahead and do that. Then I 9 needed both a member and an alternate out of the start-up to group, and that's when Dwight Walker became the alternate 11 TWG member also.
12 MS. WOODHEAD: Would it have been possible to leave
/"
t' 13 Parks as your alternate for TWG only?
14 THE WITNESS: Well, you would have me out of the start-15 up department under site engineering, and you would have my 16 alternate out of operations, which sort of wouldn't be con-17 cise with the idea behind the TWG. You know, really, it would 18 be like you working for the NRC and having your alternate ]
l 19 out of the Department of Energy -- or you probably are out of 1
20 the Department of Energy -- say out of environmental services 1 21 or something.
22 MR. JOHNSON: No; we are really sticky about that.
I I- MS. WOODHEAD: I want to follow up on that. Let's go I
)
/x
( 24 back to 1047. Maybe you can clarify my misunderstanding, if N-25 any, about the requirements. It was my understanding that COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
)
I jl5 1 1 the startup*'and test representative and alternate were to be
- (- ) ~
2 designated according to their professional' qualifications to 3 do this particular kind of review. Is that an accurate 4 statement?
5 THE WITNESS: Well, no. They would be -- the startup 6 and test department was allowed one TWG member and an 7 alternate. Both of those people should be out of the startup 8 and test department.
9 MS. WOODHEAD: According to 1047?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 BY MR. JOHNSON:
12 0 Let me show you the procedures. This is Revision 0 (O _) 13 of AP 1047, and it appears to be dated 1/26/81. Is this the 14 version that was in effect at that time?
15 (Document shown to witness.)
16 A yes, j 17 MR. HICKEY: What was the date on it, please?
18 THE WITNESS: 1/26/81.
19 BY MR. JOHNSON:
20 0 Let me just show you, on page 4, it appears, 21 Section 2.0, and then it says " Test Working Group" and then 22 2.1, and under there it says a., b., c., d., and e., and it 23 has the five departments.
<~ ,
-l 24 A. Right. i
}
\~
25 0 It says, "2.1 Menbers. TWG shall consist of one l
COMMONWE ALTH R$ PORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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_i member and at least.one alternate from the following-organi-
^
2 zations."
4 3 A. Right.
L' 4 G_ And then it has a note that says " Alternates shall-5 be deemed to have the same responsibility.and authority as-6 the permanent members."
7 Then it'has the five: .a. startup and test and the 8 chairman; b. plant operations department;.c. plant engineering 9' department; d. recovery engineering;.and e. site quality to assurance mod -- what is that, modification?
11 A. Modification operations.
12 O What I have a question about, was-Dwight Walk'er-() 13 ever. assigned to the startup and test department?
14 A. ~No.
15 0 Why didn't you request, for example, in or' der to.
. 16 comply with AP 1047, that Walker be assigned --
17 A. To be assigned to the startup and test?
18 G .Have him work for you directly.
- 19 MR. HICKEY: I have one objection to the form of the 20 question, which implies that the regulation requires that, ;
21 which is Mr. Johnson's conclusion about the regulation.
22 MR. JOHNSON: This is not a regulation. You mean the 23 procedure?
24- MR. HICKEY: I'm sorry; I mean the procedure. 1
.\
25 MR. JOHNSON: Let's get an answer. Then we'll discuss COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
jl7 54
, 3 that.
(_/ 2 THE WITNESS: The procedure spells out that you should 3
have a member and an alternate from each one of these organi-4 Jations. Now, first of all, the procedure is in there be-5 cause some of these names have been changed and there are 6
different people now, different departments.
7 Being in the startup department -- I was the only per-8 son in the startup department. Now, I would borrow startup 9
engineers both out of site operations and out of site 10 engineering.
11 The thing is, Dwight Walker shared -- well, he was in 12 a cubicle on the other side of me; it was more convenient for j him to be my alternate, and it seemed like he fit into the
[a} 13 14 startup program more easily. We probably should have went j 15 ahead and had Dwight assigned to the startup and test group.
16 The real problem is there was only one guy in the 17 startup group. That's what it boils down to.
18 MR. JOHNSON: Okay; thank you.
t l
19 MS. WOODHEAD: My question earlier was whether or not !
20 Rick Parks was qualified to be your alternate on the Test Work 21 Group in your absence.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, he was qualified.
1 23 MS. WOODHEAD: Was Walker any more qualified than
Parks to serve as your alternate?
24
%_/ j 25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
)
l
~jl8 55 l
l 3
MS. WOODHEAD: How is that; in what way?
\ms/ 2 THE WITNESS: Dwight Walker is both a degreed engineer.
3 Parks was not a degreed engineer. Walker has had much more 4
experience in startup than Parks has had. Parks had a lot of l 5 Navy experience, but Walker's experience was actually with 6 nuclear power plants. I believe Walker had at least ten ,
i 7 years that I know of at that time in actual nuclear power !
8 plants, and I believe Parks' actual nuclear power plant l
9 experience was about four years.
go MS. WOODHEAD: All right.
11 THE WITNESS: I am not positive about those numbers, 12 but it is pretty darn close to it. j
/~ ;
(x 13 MS. WOODHEAD: Yes. All right. l 14 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me; have you completed your 15 answer?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
17 MS. WOODHEAD: Is it correct to state, however, that 18 Parks could have served as your alternate on the Test Work 19 Group even though assigned to site operations?
1 20 THE WITNESS: I don't think it would really go ahead ]
[
21 with the checks and balance system that we had established.
l 22 You would wind up with site operations going ahead and having l f
23 a pretty good influence on the TWG if Parks were there and I
( 24 I wasn't.
( 1 25 MS. WOODHEAD: Is site operations mentioned in ]
]
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 I
l
d
. 56
]l9
- g i Administrative Procedure 1047?
' ~ '
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe so.
3 MR. RICHARDSON: Let's get the procedure out.
i' 4 (Document handed to witness.) l I
5 THE WITNESS: Okay, it's talking about the plant opera-i i
6 tions depart 3Ont, which is site operations.
i 7 HR. RICHARDSON: It might be helpful, Mr. Kitler, if 8 any of t.tese other organizations changed names or ceased to 9 be as a result of reorganization, could you tell us, if you 10 know? And I am referring to the organizations listed in 11 Section 2.1.
12 THE WITNESS: I believe the recovery engineering depart-13 ment turned out to be site engineering. Plant engineering was 14 still existent. The others stayed pretty much the same.
15 MS. WOODHEAD: Can you show me any place in 1047 where 16 it talks about checks and balances?
17 THE WITNESS: Well, not specifically, but the way it is 18 spelled out, you know, with these specific people from each i
19 department.
20 MS. WOODHEAD: What, precisely, were the checks and 21 In other words, what balance are we --
balances?
22 THE WITNESS: Well, you know, you wind up with a lot of 1
l 23 operations people that are strictly interested in one portion
() 24 of it; all they want to do is get the equipment and get the 25 equipment installed and get it running right. Then you've got COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717) 761 71 $0
j20 57 I your QC people that they're interested that: hey, your docu-
,_ 3 b' 2 mentation has got to be right; hey, you've got to have all the 3
documents to support this equipment. Then your engineering 4
people are looking at safety evaluations and all this other l 5 stuff.
l 6 If y u go ahead and you have a number of people from 7
one organization, and you leave out one of these others, you g are going to get something that is.not fully rounded, not 9 going to have all the input. It is like you get one-sided on to these things. It is like the guy who has been building 33 trucks, and you get a bunch of people together and they're 12 going to build cars, and you get 15 of these people that are
/
(_) 13 building trucks; you're going to get a car that's built like 14 a truck.
15 MS. WOODHEAD: Was the balance aimed for by 1047 be-16 tween recovery operations and site operations?
17 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. Are we referring to the 18 text of the procedure?
I 19 MS. WOODHEAD: Yes. I am talking about the overall {
l l
20 organization at TMI-2. As I recall, one major division was ]
21 recovery operations; the other major division was cite 22 operations.
I l
23 My question is: is the balance aimed at by 1047 be-(
14 tween the recovery operations and site operations?
(
25 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me, --
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
1 I
j21 58 eg THE WITNESS: When AP 1047 was. written there was no
,_ ) '
l recovery operations, there was no site operations. It was 2
1 between five organizations.
3 AP 1047 did not really relate to the condition that 4
5 existed at the island at that time.
6 MS. WOODHEAD: I see. So is it correct to say that the balance aimed at was different engineering expertise?
7 8
THE WITNESS: Well, it was input from all the five 9
departments; that you would go ahead -- and like I mentioned, 10 y u know, QC people to verify your documentation is right; {
33 your operations people to determine plant conditions, if a 12 change or a procedure, whatever, were correct; your engineer-
\
'-- la ing people to go ahead and do your safety evaluations, verify 14 there is no engineering problem; your plant engineering people, 15 which were conditions in the plant, you know, specific require-16 ments, they would have input; and then your.startup people.
17 MS. WOODHEAD: So the balance was in professional 18 knowledge among different groups at TMI-2?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 MS. WOODHEAD: All right. Thank you.
21 BY MR. JOHNSON:
22 O Let's skip ahead in time, a month, to the period 23 discussed in your deposition on page -- to Stier -- on page 17
,r
( ,)) 24 and 18. It discusses a meeting of the TWG on March 28, and it
)
25 indicates that although you -- when you came back from your COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
j22 59 vacation there had been a meeting in your absence of the TWG, --
j_c 3 l
't Yes, j
A. j 2
3 0 -- and it had been decided at that meeting to 4
follow AP 1047 and the procedure would be rewritten.
5 A. Yes, verbatim.
6 0 But apparently, according to this testimony, you' 7
say, "During the next few weeks there appeared to be some g confusion about the load test procedure" -- that's at lines
\
g 9 and 10 on 17 -- and you decided, because of the different 10 opinions, that the best way to settle it was to have another 33 meeting of TWG --
12 7. Yes.
'l
(, 13 0 -- and Joe Chwastyk to resolve Rick's comments, 14 and -- well, Rick was gone by the 28th, but I assume that 15 Chwastyk was in attendance, and you had a meeting on the 28th.
16 On line 9 there you talk about the confusion about the 17 load test procedure, and then later on you talk about, on 24 18 and 25, differences of opinion on a few items, and then on the j 19 first line of 18 you refer to a little misunderstanding.
20 What are you referring to?
21 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me.
22 Mr. Kitler, he is referring to a great deal of testi-l 23 mony. Why don't you take your time and review it.
l
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24 MR. JOHNSON: Sure; take your time. ;
25 MR. RICHARDSON: It starts at page 17. !
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
'j23 60 1
(Witness perusing document.)
fm )
i
\/ 2 MR. RICHARDSON: Actually, I guess it really begins 3 at the middle of page 16.
4 MR. JOHNSON: Except I am focusing really.on what the 5 'later --
6 MR. RICHARDSON: I know, but I would like to give the 7 witness the benefit of the full testimony.
g (Witness perusing document.)
9 BY MR. JOHNSON:
10 0 As soon as you feel you are comfortable with it, it would you explain?
l 12 (Pause.)
[h)
( 13 G Mr. Kitler, have you finished reading it?
14 A. (No response.)
15 G I really only am talking about a specific thing; 16 you don't need to go on to 19. I'm really not going to ask 17 you right this second about page 19.
18 A. Okay. Uhat was your question? I i
1 19 O The question is: what were the items of confusion )
l 1
20 that were unresolved that you decided to have a TWG meeting i 21 on March 28 to discuss?
22 MR. RICHARDSON: If I may just add a prefatory obser-23 vation, we do have the minutes of the March 28 TWG meeting if j }
24 the witness feels he needs to refresh his recollection.
25 THE WITNESS: Yes. I would like to see those.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l
l I
d24 61 MR. ~ JOHNSON: I-do 't have those with me..
- 1 -]
2 MR. RICHARDSON: -Let me show them to Mr. Johnson first.-
1 3 (Document handed to Mr.: Johnson.)
l l j MR. JOHNSON: Could we.have this. marked as!an exhibit?
5 I don't reca11'this being produced. ,
It may have been. I-l 6 don't have it.
L . i 7
MR. RICHARDSON: I'm pretty-sure_'it was, but that is.
g my one and only precious copy. If you could maybe make a j g xerox first.
j jo MR. JOHl: SON:
All right. Off the record. l I
11 (Discussion off the record.)
12 MR. JOHNSON: On the record.
r' t 13 I would-like to mark a March 31, 1983 Internal. Office .;
\_ j 14- Memorandum 43450-83-0008 as Kitler Deposition Exhibit :2.
15 (Whereupon, the document was- !
marked as Kitler Deposition l 16 Exhibit No. 2 for identification). j
. i 17 MR. RICHARDSON: Actually, it might be helpful, I' 18 think, -- do we have the exhibit which is the Lake cover memo l 19 with the Parks' February 17 comments and the recovery opera-20 tions response?
21 MR. JOHNSON: We had it as part of the Chwastyk --
22 MR. RICHARDSON: If I could get that back. I think 23 you really need to look at that in order to --
24 MR. JOHNSON: That is Exhibit 7 from Chwastyk's
' \_
25 deposition.
l COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
j25 62 MR. RICHARDSON: If you want to look at this, the s G 2 comments and the recovery operation response.
THE WITNESS: I think the big point of confusion was 3
that -- okay, the March 4 meeting went ahead and said, okay, 4
we're going to go verbatim compliance with AP 1047. And 5
6 basically all Parks' comments were basically referring to non-7 compliance with 1047. Okay?
6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 0 Yes.
10 A. Now, that March 4 meeting was just a blanket meet- ]
33 ing, and it says, okay, we're going to go ahead and bite the 12 bullet and we're going to go ahead and we're going to comply 13 with 1047. All right?
14 0 Yes.
15 A. Now, my management, basically, Buchanan and every-16 body else, came to the meeting and said,"Well, does that 17 resolve all of Rick's problems?" I said, " Yeah, sure, you know, 18 that's all he had was compliance." He said, "But did you 19 address each problem specifically?" I said, "Well, you know, 20 by complying with that, that handles all the comments he had."
21 He said, "Well, I think it would be a good idea if you actually 22 had TEG meet and go through every one of his comments, 23 specifically, and verify that each one is resolved."
h 24 0 This was Radbill who said this?
25 A. No; this was Gallagher.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171701 7150
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63 1
j26 '
( 1 MR. HICKEY: You actually said Buchanan. I don't I
- r' '
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2 know whether it was Gallagher, but you said Buchanan.
I, 3 THE WITNESS: Did I? No. I think it was coming down I l
4 from Buchanan, you know, possibly. !
1 5 MR. HICKEY: You were having a discussion with 6 Gallagher, but you think maybe it was coming from Buchanan; 7 is that what you're saying?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
9 So, anyway, I convened the TWG on March 28, and we sat to down and we went through each one of the comments and verified 11 that each one was resolved.
12 As a result of that 28th meeting, there was no change
() 13 to the polar crane load test -- load test procedure; excuse me.
14 BY MR. JOHNSON:
15 0 At this meeting did Joe Chwastyk or anybody from 16 site operations express any disagreement with you about the 17 various positions?
18 A. No.
19 Neither Chwastyk nor anybody else.
0 Was anybody else 20 from site operations there?
21 A. Yeah. Bubba Marshall was there.
22 0 So there was basic agreement?
23 A. Yeah. There was very little disagreement at all.
24 We just basically went--through each comment and documented it.
25 0 I am gc.ing to show you an affidavit of yours; it is CoMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
j- j27 64 i dated October 1, 1984, a sworn statement, three pages.
'w/
2 (Witness perusing document.)
3 A Yes, 4 0 I am going to make a copy so'you can have sone-5 thing in front of you.
6 MR. RICHARDSON: Will that be Exhibit 3?
7 MR. JOHNSON: This will be Exhibit 3.
8 I am going to mark the affidavit of Edward Kitler, 9 three pages, dated October 1, 1984, Kitler Deposition 10 Exhibit 3.
11 (Whereupon, the document was marked as Kitler Deposition Exhibit No. 3 12
_ for identification.)
(> 13 BY MR. JOHNSON:
14 You have read it over?
0 15 A, yes, 16 Now, this affidavit mentions an incident recounted 0
17 by Richard Parks in his affidavit, I believe, of March 21, 18 1983, at page 20, in which he recounts an incident on February 19 18 early in the morning in which you, Ed Kitler, supervisor of 20 startup and test, caught up with Parks coming in from the 21 parking lot. And you were apparently,in paragraph 2 of your 22 affidavit, paragraph 3 and 4, addressing this incident, and u
}: 23 you indicate in paragraph 2 that you do remember having this
() 24 conversation with Parks.
25 A. Yes.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 l _ __ _ ____._.____________.________9
65 h j28 1 0 SPecifically, you said, "I met him in the TMI
- O
\' Parking lot and told him that I heard rumors to the effect l 2 3 that maybe Parks should be transferred from TMI. Although I' 4 cannot remember the exact date, I do remember having this 5 conversation with Mr. Parks."
6 Now, it says that "maybe Parks should be transferred 7 from TMI." Was this attributable --'this was your opinion, 8 or this was somebody else's opinion, that Parks should be 9 transferred " rom f TMI?
10 A Well, to go back on that, for a period prior to 1
11 February 18, I had been hearing rumors from numerous people 12 that, you know, Parks was not very cooperative, that he was
'( ) 13 trying to hinder progress, and there was one instance where 14 I believe Tom Morris -- I caught Tom Morris coming back from 15 a meeting, and he r.ade a statement something like, "Can't we 16 get rid of that guy or something?" And I think Tom just had a 17 meeting with him and got pretty upset.
18 0 Was he a Bechtel person, Tom Morris?
19 A Yes.
20 0 Uhat was his position?
21 A I don't really remember, 22 O What time frame would you recollect having been 23 told that by Mr. Morris? l
(}
%J 24 A Maybe the first week in February, second week in 25 February.
l COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 a
C 66 1
3 O What other rumors do you remember that you may have
' f,_ !
"d 2 been referring;to?
3 A There were slight. rumors like -- you know, just 4
comments people would make to me: " Man, what's wrong with 5
Rick anymore? God, he's against everything we do." And that 6 was from'a number of different people, not just one person.
7 0 Parks indicates that you told him that the source g of the rumor, or one of the sources of these rumors, was Rich-g Gallagher.
10 A. That's not true. I had a conversation -- as a 11 matter of fact, the situation is, I pulled into the parking 12 lot and Rick actually came up to me. He was parked about a C\
\ ,/ 13 row over. He come running up to me and asked, "What's going 14 on?"- I said, "What do you mean, what's going on?" He says, t
15 "Everybody's down on me." I'said, "Well, Rick," -- excuse 16 the language - "you've got everybody pissed off at you and 17 you're being uncooperative; and, Christ, people are even talk-18 ing about transferring you."
19 We proceeded up to Chwastyk's office. I got into 20 Chwastyk's office and he just started giving me the third 21 degree. "Well, who said this about the transfer?" I think
{
22 he said, "Well, was it Gallagher?" By this time I was on the l l
23 complete defense. I just wanted to get out of there. I didn't t
. 7_s He had me t
L} 24 say a word to him; I just stopped talking to him.
25 real upset just by the way he was interrogating me.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761.*8150 i
w-_________.__.____ I
67 j30 -
yx 1 At that time King and Chwastyk came in, and then they !
\ ] +
2 continued the conversation. Then Rick brought up the point 3 that they were threatening to transfer him, and I -- you 4 know, this whole thing is based on just this one comment I i'
5 heard from Morris. I said, " Hey, Rick, you know, you're 6 taking this too seriously. You're blowing this all up out of proportion." l 7 And I think Chwastyk said something like,"It 8 may be just somebody with a grudge against you or something."
9 But, actually, Rick is the one who brought un 10 Gallagher's name. I didn't say a word to him. At that time j l
11 I just wanted to get out of there. As a matter of fact, l 12 shortly after King and Chwastyk showed up, I backed out of
\# 13 that thing, and they continued the conversation.
14 0 Had you heard any discussion like what you heard 15 from Morris, that is, " Parks is giving everybody a hard time 16 and can't we get rid of him; what use is he," or whatever, 17 from Jim Thiesing?
18 A. No. I had very little association with Thiesing.
I9 As a matter of fact, during the entire time I spent there 20 prior to the Parks incident, I think I was lucky if I said 21 hello to him three times.
22 0 You say you didn't hear it from Gallagher?
23 A. No.
()
/ \
24 MR. HICKEY: I'm going to ask, because it is a very oO important question, George, that you be a little more COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 I
68 l
(,
l j31 3
specific about what it is, because you lumped together in
) 2 your question about three different things, comments about 3 Parks being uncooperative, comments about Parks possibly being l l
4 transferred, and the third thing was that Parks was being a J l
5 problem or something; and I think if you're going to ask the 6 witness to ascribe comments to particular people, you've got 1 l
- to be a little more precise about what it is you're asking 8 him.
1 g BY MR. JOHNSON:
1 10 0 I think you know what I'm interested in. I'm 11 interested in comments about transferring him or taking some 12 kind of action that Parks might --
r~s No.
l f
} 13 A. Gallagher has never mentioned anything to me 14 about that.
15 0 What about Buchanan?
16 A No.
I 17 l 18 19 20 l 21 ;
22 23 f 24 s
25 COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
[
T3 ' '
69 k1
. ,r g 1 BY MR. JOHNSON:
s i
\
2 Q What I am looking for, was there anybody else, any 3 Bechtel source, that may have said something that you overhearcl 4 or was said to you concerning the need or desirability of 5 transferring Rick Parks around this period?
6 A No, other than jitst gossip from, you know, other
. 7 group supervisors, people at my own level.
!O 8 Q Who might they be? Who are you referring to?
9 A Well, like I say, one was Tom Morris. I think 10 Bill Austin made a comment like, " God, what's the matter with I 11 that guy?", you know.
12 MR. HICKEY: Now, wait a minute. The question from O.
ksl 13 Mr. Johnson is, did you hear anybody talk about the desirability 14 of transferring Rick Parks. 1 15 THE WITNESS: Oh, no.
16 MR. HICKEY: That's an important question, and you want II to answer that question.
18 THE WITNESS: Right. No. The only comment I heard 19 about getting rid of Parks was the one that Tom Morris made. l 20 And I don't know whether it was, "Can we get rid of that guy?"
21 or "What are we going to do, transfer that guy?" or something )
1 22 to that effect. Tom Morris was the only one I remember who 23 ever said anything like that.
24 (v) MS. WOODHEAD: In your association with Mr. Parks, did 25 you have any trouble or find him to be uncooperative?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)?61 7150 l
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- 2 70
,- 1 THE WITNESS: Around December, he started -- well, 2 like I said, the one instance where I had testing to do and, 3 you know, in the past, he would be just too happy to do it.
4 And I think some of the reasons he gave me back in 5 December for not being able to do that testing prior to 6 Christmas were not really that valid.
7 BY MR. JOHNSON:
!O 8 Q Was there a time during this period of December 9 through February where you had some disagreements with Parks 10 or you had some discussions with Parks which, if I may say, 11 you got " pissed off" at him?
12 A Well, like I say, back in December, when I had that
(
( 13 testing to do, I went to him and asked for help, and he told 14 me no, that he was busy with something else. And what he 15 told me wasn't really all that important.
16 I thought he really could have done this test for me.
II And you know, it wasn't anything that really got me upset. It l 18 was one of these things that I thought, well, you know, "Geez, 19 I can't rely on Rick anymore." You know, it wasn't anything 20 that really got me hopping mad.
21 Most of the people who know me, it takes a lot to get me 22 upset. It's one of things to say, " Hey, you don't want to do 23 it, I'll find somebody else, you know." It's no big deal.
24 Q Let me ask you about paragraph 8 on page 3 of your i 25 affidavit. You say that, "I know that Mr. Parks is being COMMONWE ALTH RE PORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
- 3 71 1 considered to replace me if I left TMI. In fact, I discussed-2 .that possibility with Wheeler. I also asked Parks if he was l 3 interested in replacing me, because it was possible that I l
4 was-being transferred to Georgia."
5 When did all of this take place? What time period'are 6 you referring to there?
7 MR. RICHARDSON: Are you referring to the discussion I.
f with Wheeler, the discussion with Parks?
8 l
9 By MR. JOHNSON:
10 Q When was Parks being considered to replace you?
11 A I'll tell you, that was ongoing for quite a while, 12 because you know, even back around say October or so, I knew 13 Gallagher for a while and I confided in Gallagher a few times i
14 that I was looking for employment elsewhere.
15 And Gallagher was interested in saying, "If you leave, 16 who will we get to replace you?" And naturally, I recommended l
17 Rick.
l 18 And as time went on, you know, around January, he 19 started thinking more about -- I actually went in and talked 20 to my supervisor about being transferred. I requested a 21 transfer to somewhere else.
l 22 And it was mentioned in January about Rick possibly ;
23 replacing me. 4 24 By you or by somebody else?
Q 25 A Basically, I started it. And then both Gallagher COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
I N' .
72 l'
{
1 picked up on it, and I talked to Andy Wheeler, my supervisor,-
2 about'it also.
j 3 Q And what was their reaction? What was Gallagher's 4 reaction?
5 A Gallagher didn't really have any objections to it.
- 6 .My supervisor in Gaithersburg, Andy Wheeler, was a little l
. 7 reluctant to go ahead and assign a man that's only been with 8 the company a short time to a position like that.
! 9 His feeling, I believe, was to get somebody out of the 10 office with more experience to do it.
11 Q In January you discussed it with Gallagher. Did l
12 you discuss it with Wheeler around the same time in January?
i /~
l 13 A Possibly. I don't really remember exactly when I 14 talked to Wheeler about it.
15 Q What about with Parks? When did you discuss it with-16 Parks?
17 A I think it was probably around January.
18 Q And what was his reaction? What did he tell you?
19 l A He said he might be interested in it.
20 Q Under what circumstances?
21 l A Well, he seemed pretty cool about the whole thing.
22 Q Cool?
23 A Yes.
Q I don't understand. Could you explain what that 25 means?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
-73 Q 1 A I said, "What do you think about taking over my b 2 position?" He said, "I might.be interested in that." That 3 was basically the end of the conversation.
4 Q And this was also in January?
5 A I believe so. I wouldn't bet on it. l 6 Q Did you talk to him again about.it?-
. 7 A I think later on, like around maybe ear *// March, l'
E 8 it was mentioned again.
9 Q He mentioned it or you mentioned it?
10 A I think it may have been Gallagher that mentioned f 11 it to him. I am not positive. But I didn't mention it to 12 him again. I think someone else mentioned it to him in early tO 13 January -- or early March, rather.
14 MR. HICKEY: If I can interrupt you just one minute in 15 I an attempt to refresh the witness, do you remember any 16 discussion about Parks replacing you that involved a 17 consideration of whether start-up and test would be moved to a 18 different location in the organization and put under site 19 operations?
20 THE WITNESS: Yes. There was some talk about start-up 21 l and test moving under the site operations department.
22 BY MR. JOHNSON:
23 Q Did Parks ever express an opinion to you that he 24 would only accept that kind of position if it were a site 25 operations position?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
it6 74 i :O A Yes, he did.
q) 1 2 Q Do you remember when that was?
3 A No, I don't. -
4 Q Did he express to you negative feelings about 5 working in the position if it weren't in site operations?
6 A Yes, he did.
. 7 Q Could you tell me what he told you?
3 8
8 A I don't really remember. I sort of remember the 9 conversation as rather flippant, and he said -- I can't 10 remember his exact words, but I do remember that it was one of 11 these comments where he was walking out the door and he said I l
7, 12 something to me.
b 13 MR. HICKEY: I think, whenever Mr. Johnson asks you 14 about conversations, Mr. Kitler, he is asking, if you have a 15 recollection of it, would you give it to him. But if you I 16 don't have a recollection, then you ought to say that.
17 BY MR. JOHNSON:
IB Q Do you remember when that conversation may have
]
19 taken place?
20 A The thing is, you know, it was four years ago. I 21 am just getting at these, you know.
22 MR. RICHARDSON: Mr. Kitler, Mr. Johnson doesn't want 23 you to guess. If you've got a basis for being reasonably O
Q 24 certain about a time frame, then say so.
25 THE WITNESS: I would say probably the latter part of COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
7- -
75 February or early part of' March,-just based on what was going
)
O 1
]
4 I
2 on at the time. j l
3 MR. JOHNSON: We got in discovery from GPU a document, )
j 4 a handwritten letter addressed to Larry. It is not clear to 5 me who it is from. Anyway, it appears to be written by Ben i 6 Slone,.4-13-83.
l
. .7 BY MR. JOHNSON: j g 1 f
l 8 Q It discusses Quiltec and knowledge of Quiltec, but 9 there is a paragraph on page 2 which discusses you, and your i 10 knowledge of -- it doesn't expressly mention Quiltec, but i
1 11 that's the purpose of it.
l 12 At the end of it, there's a note in kind of a box that-l 13 says, " Rick apparently pissed him off real bad, too." Do you 14 have any idea what Ben Slone may have been referring to?
15 MR. RICHARDSON: Has this document been produced?
16 MR. JOHNSON: You produced it to us in the box of 17 materials.
18 MR. RICHARDSON: Do we have a more legible copy of 19 this?
20 MR. JOHNSON: That is the very copy you produced to me.
21 If I may continue --
22 MR. RICHARDSON: The witness hasn't had a chance to l
23 examine the document.
()
i 24 (Witness perusing docwment.)
25 THE WITNESS: I'll tell you --
l COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 I
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[tB '76
/*
' 1 ~MR. RICHARDSON: What's the question?
2 BY MR. JOHNSON:
3 Q The question is: do you know what Slone may have 4 been referring'to?
5 MR. RICHARDSON: I have to object. I think it calls 6 for sheer speculation.
. 7 MR. JOHNSON: I withdraw the question.
- g 8 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 Q Did Rick piss you off real bad, to the point where 10 Ben Slone might have known about it and written it down here?
11 MR. RICHARDSON: Same objection with regard to 12 speculating about how Slone might know about it.
13 MR. JOHNSON: I withdraw the question.
14 BY MR. JOHNSON:
15 Did Rick piss you off real bad --
Q 16 MR. HICKEY: You don't want to just describe it as l
17 irritation or something, do you? I 18 MR. RICHARDSON: That's okay, I think we know what you !
i 19 meant.
20 THE WITNESS: The one time that he got me rather upset 21 was that little incident in the parking lot, and then dragging 22 me back to Chwastyk's office and giving me the third degree 23 in there. I mean, it was worse than what you guys are doing 24 to me right now.
25 And I felt uncomfortable about it, and there was no COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
______________-_____-__________-___--____-____a
l
,9 77 reason for it. And after that, I was very cool towards Rick
[~}s-1 2 and I didn't want to have any further communications with him 3 other than what I had to as far as work.
4 Q Did it stay that way in terms of your relationship 6 with him?
6 A Yes.
. 7 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. I be'2 a eve that letter from E
O 8 Slone is dated in April of 1983. Did your question include 9 whether or not the witness was pissed off by Pcrks through 10 March, continuing into April, or after?
11 BY I4R. JOHNSON:
12 f-s Q iWe were talking about this particular interroga-(
( 13 tion that you were describing by Parks of you on February 18, 14 and I asked you, you remained cool and aloof from him from 15 then on?
1 16 A Yes.
17 MR. RICHARDSON: You're speaking about the time period 18 when Parks was still employed at TMI-2?
19 FR. JOHNSON: Talking about from February 18. That's 20 quite clear. We're talking about after February 18.
2I MR. RICHARDSON: Do you also include the period of time 22 af ter !!r. Parks went public and was no longer working at TMI?
23 BY MR. JOHNSON:
24 Q Was there a time after February 18 in which you 25 got on better terms with --
COVMONWE ALTH RE PORTING COMPANY (717'761 7150 l
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- 10 -
78 I
1 A No. Even after he had.left the island, he called 2 me up on occasion, and I just refused to talk to him when he 3 called me.
4 He' called me up one day and invited.me to have a beer 5 with him after work, and I just said, "What are you, crazy?"
6 Q So, as far as you are concerned, that-February 18
. 7 incident was a kind of a turning point in your relationship?
3 I g A Yes. i 9 Q Up until that point, it had been fairly good?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And after that --
12 A I had a lot of trust in him, and at that point,-it 13 was quite evident in my mind that something was going on. I 14 didn't know what it was.
15 Q Your reaction, if I might characterize it -- and 16 you tell me if you would agree -- was that when you spoke to i 17 him in the parking lot on February 18, you were trying to 18 find out what was happening or something like that --
19 A He was trying to find out what was going on, 20 happening, from me. And we continued this conversation --
21 you know, I wanted to go to my office in the admin. building, 22 and ne said, "No, let's go up to Larry King's office."
I 23 And we got up there, and he just started grilling me,
() 24 questioning me. And when King and Chwastyk got in, it was a 25 continuation.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 L_____.________._._.________.__._._______________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . _ . _
' till k
.)
1 I just quieted up, right after he started the Q). i 2 _ accusations -- well, asking me whether Gallagher was one or i
3 not, and I just stopped talking then until Chwastyk came in, 1 4 and King came in, and they started to get all wound up about 5 this transfer.
6 And I says, " Hey, you know, you guys are running off
. 7 on a handle, here. You know, it's no big deal."
3 ,
8 8 Q Did you hear conversations at the site concerning 9 possible transfer of Rick Parks between that conversation and i lo say March 217 11 A No.
12 Did you have occasion to discuss'the incident that Q
13 you were talking about in King's office environs with 14
. management that day?
15 A No. The only thing is, when I came back there, I 1 16 was rather upset about it, you know, because Parks' attitude 17 was completely different, almost, you know, very aggressive, 18 very nervous.
19 And after I got through with this, I was very confused 20 about what the heck was going on, and rather upset about it.
1 21 And I got back and I just happened to meet Gallagher.
22 And I just told Gallagher that, " Boy, I was in 23 Chwastyk's office and I just got the third degree by King, l
24 5 Chwastyk and Parks."
25 And that was the total conversation. I just went over COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
c12 80 !
,- 1 to my office and got involved in something else. I just I
' 2 happened to mention it to Gallagher, and I didn't mention it l 3 to Gallagher as him being my supervisor.
4 I happened to run into him, and God, if I would have 5 run into the cleaning lady or whatever, you know, I would have i
6 mentioned it to her, you know.
. 7 I knew Rich for a number of years before, too. I've I
f 8 known Rich for about, well, since 1972. ;
9 Q Did you mention any of this when you had your 10 discussion concerning Rick's comment resolution of the previous 11 day when you talked to Mike Radbill? ,
12 A No. That was the very same day. After I had this i 13 conversation with Rick --
14 That's what I'm asking.
Q You went up to your office, 15 and then you said earlier that you had a discussion with -- !
16 Mike Radbill called you up and then you had a meeting just 17 before lunch concerning the comments of Rick on the Ap-1047 18 polar crane test procedure.
19 A Yes.
20 Did your conversations with Rick in the environs Q
21 of the King offices, et cetera, come up in that discussion?
22 A No, it didn't, not that I can remember, anyway.
23 Did anyone else that you were talking to -- was it Q
G 24 just with Radbill that you were discussing his comments before 25 lunch?
COMMONWE ALTt4 RE PORTING COM PANY (717)761 7150
- .13 81
- G' 1 A No. We had Radbill in there, and I believe there
[ }-
2 . were.two people from U.S. Crane. I believe that'was the 3 company, U.S, Crane,.out of Orlando. ,
4 And there was another engineer that worked for Mike-5 Radbill that was following the polar crane in the office, also ,
6 There were five of us, I believe.
. 7 Q Who was that? Do you remember who that was?
E E
8 A I don't remember who that was. That was a fellow '
9 that Radbill had assigned to the polar crane.
10 Q When you signed this directive designating Walker 11 as your replacement, was the incident in the morning, did that 12 sort of push you in the direction of signing it that particular 13 day?
14 A No. ;
15 Q It wasn't a factor?
16 A No. l 17 Q The fact that you felt differently about Parks 18 after that incident had no role in your signing that designa-19 tion?
20 A No. It just possibly made me more sure that I was 21 doing the right thing at that time.
22 MS. WOODHEAD: Why did you suggest Parks as your 23 replacement in the event that you left the site rather than 24 Walker?
25 THE WITNESS: Actually, I did discuss Walker.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
- - - _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . 1
kl4' 82 1 MS. WOODHEAD: Pardon?
O- 2 THE WITNESS: In January, with --
3 MR. RICHARDSON: Could I have that question read back?
4 I believe I missed something.
5 (Whereupon, the reporter read from the record, as 6 requested.)
. 7 THE WITNESS: Actually, in. January, after Walker had
!O 8 shown up, I did suggest Walker. Gallagher said, "No way."
9 They had been searching for somebody to put in the position 10 that Dwight was in for possibly the last four to six months, 11 and Dwight was working.out very well in that position, and 12 no way did Gallagher want to pull him from that position and I) 13 put him over into my position.
14 So, the minute I mentioned Walker's name, he just 15 stopped it right there. He says, "No way."
16 MS. WOODHEAD: Do you know of any reason that Parks' 17 attitude changed in late 1982, early 1983?
18 MR. RICHARDSON: I'm sorry, attitude in what respect?
19 MS. WOODHEAD: He talked earlier about a change in 20 attitude on the Parks' part. I am referring to what he 21 mentioned as a change in attitude. I wondered if Mr. Kitler 22 knew of any reason that he might have had a change in attitude ,
23 j about his work relationships.
() 24 25 THE WITNESS: No, I don't have anything definite.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
- 15 ~ 83 i
1 BY MR. JOHNSON:
- V s 2 Q Is it safe to say that after the February 18 3 encounter with Parks in the morning, that you didn't suggest 4 that he be your replacement after that?
5 (No response.)
6 Q You said earlier that -- 1 1
- 7 A I'll tell you seriously, by that time -- you know, i 8 Three Mile Island has a tendency to wear you down. When you 9 first get there, you say, you know, " God, I don't know why 10 everybody's complaining. It's not really bad." l I
11 But after you spend months there, it's like water !
1 12 dripping on your forehead. By that time, I wanted to leave, I (Oj 13 and I wanted to leave bad. And I wanted to get this whole I4 thing resolved and I wanted to get out of there.
15 Q So you didn't care who replaced you?
I 16 A Pretty much so, yes, somebody that was competent. l l
II
, Q Fair enough.
I8 MS. WOODHEAD: Why did people want to leave the site so I9 much after working there a while?
MR. HICKEY: Is that really a relevant question to the 91
~
deposition that we are taking of this witness and the issues in 2
the notice that the Judge issued?
3 MS. WOODHEAD: It depends on what his answer is.
l i (q 24 MR. HICKEY: It's as broad as the world. I mean, I
%) 25 suppose there are people who left to take other jobs and there COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
- 16, -
84 l = 1 were people who moved and there were people who got fired 2 and there were people who.got transferred. 'Could you j u
3 specify at all what you are talking about?
1 4 MR. RICHARDSON: That.was my difficulty. Are you i 5 referring to the witness' state of mind,.his reasons, what 6 other people told him were their reasons, or do you want him to
. '7 speculate as to why they may have --
3 8
"- 8 MS. WOODHEAD: Let's clarify what he is speaking of.
9 Are you speaking in general? Was this a common reaction 10 among employees at TMI, or was it only yourself? ,
'i 11 THE WITNESS: I'd say it was common with a l'ot of 12 people I talked to, people with the type of makeup that like
'O Q 13 to get things done. j 14 And it was very frustrating to work long and hard to do 15 very minimal tasks. It was something that wore you down. To 16 do the simplest things, it was very difficult.
17 MS. WOODHEAD: Thank you.
18 BY MR. JOHNSON:
'IU Before leaving this affidavit, on page 3, you Q
20 mention Larry King, that you had anticipated that King would 21 appoint parks to TWG as site operations representative, and 22 he did in fact appoint him.
23 Why did you anticipate King would do that, 24 A First of all, because parks had the most association, 25 with TWG. He was familiar with the documentation requirements, COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
- 17 85 I He was familiar with how things work, and he was d'oing
[ ..,Y k/ 2 a lot of the precedure reviews up until that date. I would 3 go to him most of the time for review of the procedures I 4 brought through. )
I 5 I think it would be only natural for King to go ahead ,
6 and appoint him as TWG representative.
1
- 7 Q On the same subject, because there is a statement 8
8 I want to show you -- it's in the deposition of Larry King at 9 page 203. I believe it is the deposition that he gave to OI 10 in either June or July, 1983. ;
1 11 MR. HICKEY: What's that page, please?
12 MR. JOHNSON: Page 203. It discusses the same incident, 13 on February 18.
I#
BY MR. JOHNSON:
15 Q And he makes the point that, "We had the incident j l
16 in the office where he was really upset with Kitler, when 1
I Kitler told him Gallagher said they were going to transfer l I8 him."
I9 I just wanted to ask you again. Are you sure that 20 Gallagher's name didn't come up, you didn't say anything 21 about Gallagher?
o.2 A Parks brought Gallagher's name up. He asked me, 03 who was responsible for this comment about transferring. He 24 said, "Was it Gallagher?" And by this time, I was upset with
)
25 him, and I didn't even want to continue the conversation any l COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMP ANY 1717)761-7150
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1 further. I.didn't say another. word. .j 2 Q As far as you are concerned,'you didn't give any 3 reason for him to believe Gallagher was.the one?
4 A- Right, unless by me remaining silent, he assumed 5 it was Gallagher or whatever. But I never mentioned that 6 Gallagher had said anything, and Gallagher never said
. -7 anything to me about that.
8 Q Let me ask you, concerning the replacement of Parks 9 on the 18th by memorandum.that we discussed, as your 10 alternate supervisor and representative on TWG, how di,d it '
11 come to be that you wrote the memo on the 18th --
12 MR. HICKEY: That's not his testimony.
13 BY MR. JOHNSON:
I4 Q No, you signed the memo on the 18th --
15 MR. HICKEY: That's his testimony.
16 MR. JOHNSON: Let me back up a second.
17 BY MR. JOHNSON:
I8 Q You also testified before Stier that you went to I8 Buchanan and you explained the circumstances, and he said fine, 2
A No, I think I talked to Gallagher about this, and Gallagher went to --
22 MR. RICHARDSON: It's been a while. Do we have the 23 transcript?
2d MR. JOHNSON: Yes, we do. Let me show it to you. It's 25 on page 19, and you say, "I requested and received approval COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMP ANY (717)761 7150
419 87 1 from my supervisor, Dave Buchanan, and Rick's supervisor,
/^\
)
(-) 2 Larry King, to appoint Rick as my alternate on the 6th."
3 Maybe that's where I got confused.
4 (Pause.)
5 BY MR. JOHNSON ~:
6 Q So your testimony is that you discussed it with
. 7 Gallagher? I E
8 A Yes.
9 Q Before you signed it?
10 A I probably discussed it with him, probably on the 11 17th, or possibly even earlier, probably before I even 12 drafted the memo.
I rx 13 So, on the 18th, you didn't seek anybody's approval, f ,) Q 14 you felt you --
l 15 A Well, I already had approval, and I just went ahead 16 and signed it and issued it.
i 17 You had consulted prior with Gallagher, and he said Q l l
18 it was a good idea, or -- )
19 A Right. I consulted with Gallagher, and he 20 consulted with Buchanan.
1 21 And that was it? !
Q l
22 A That was it.
23 Are they the only ones involved?
Q r 24 A Yes. l
!,_ I 25 MR. HICKEY: He testified earlier that he also talked to co_ o~m.m_c m,~e co . ~, <>,,,>e,.>,ec i
1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ l
- 201 88 1 Walker.
- s p)(. '~
2' THE WITNESS: Oh, Dwight Walker, yes.
3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
4 Q But in the decision, Buchanan and Gallagher were-5 the only other management people?
6 A Right. As a matter of fact, Gallagher was the
- 7 only one I contacted. I believe he contacted Buchanan.
8 Q one of the things that transpired was that, during 9 the meeting on the 23rd which I think you were alluding to l 10 where there were people discussing Parks' comments on the 11 polar crane procedure, Jim Thiesing informed Parks that he 12 didn't have to worry about that problem or something to that la effect because he had been removed from the TWG.
14 I was wondering, if Parks just learned of it on'the 23rd .
15 from hearing Thiesing say that to him at this meeting, why 16 was it that you didn't inform Parks betweeen the 18th and the
'k 17 '
23rd?
18 A There was a -- l l
19 MR. RICHARDSON: Wait a moment, Mr. Kitler. That i
20 presupposes statements by Thiesing which the witness has not j 21 affirmed. Maybe in fairness we ought to go back and see what 22 recollection he has.
23 BY MR. JOHNSON:
24 You were at that meeting on the 23rd?
25 A Yes.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 L___-_ l
$1' 89 1 Q And did Thiesing say to Parks something to the
(,
~s 2 effect, "You don't have to worry about that because you are 3 no longer the signoff on TWG"?
4 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me, you don't have to worry 5 about what?
6 MR. JOHNSON: I can get the Parks affidavit out.
. 7 MR. RICHARDSON: It's a pretty key point.
8 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 Q It's on page 24 and 25. This is Parks' affidavit.
10 He says, "I took exception to Freemerman's position about 11 AP.-1043 and AP-1047. I explained that the modifications and 12 refurbishment programs both had to comply with the site
() 13 14 manual. I reminded him of my experience in the test program at the island, and that in my current role as alternate startup 15 and test supervisor, I was still responsible to identify 16 potential QA audit deficiencies.
17
" Jim Thiesing interjected to inform me that I no longer 18 had to worry about that. He had issued a memorandum that day 19 or the day before appointing a new alternate, thereby 20 relieving me."
21 Do you remember that conversation, these particular 22 points?
23 MR. RICHARDSON: There are multiple points.
24 BY MR. JOHNSON:
~
' 25 Q The point is, do you remember Thiesing interjecting COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . I
1 \
c22 , 90 l
I at that point?
5,, i V 2 A No, I don't really remember that. He may have.
3 You know, there were a lot of people at that meeting. There 4 were three or four different discussions going on at the same 6 tiine . I may have missed it.
6 So, you don't recollect now; it may have been said, Q
. 7 but you just don't recollect it now?
8 A yes.
9 MR. HICKEY: Are you aware of Thiesing issuing any 10 memorandum?
11 THE WITNESS: No. The only memorandum issued was the 12 one I issued.
13 MR. RICHARDSON: Are you saying there may have been an I4 interjection by Thiesing?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. JOHNSON: He just doesn't recall. ,
1 I
BY MR. JOHNSON-
\
Q My question to you is, did you ever personally 4
I9 inform Parks that he was replaced?
20 A No. The memo I issued was sent to distribution, 21 and he would have seen it. He sees everything Larry King gets.
22 O Why didn't you inform him personally?
23 A Really, no need to. I mean, that's one of the l
/q 24 reasons I issued the memo, issued it in distribution.
L.)
25 Q Was Dwight Walker ever transferred into the l l
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150 l 1
- 23 91 j 1 startup and test department?
1
\
2 A No. You mean, at the island?
3 Q Yes.
4 A Okay, see, Dwight Walker is out of the startup and 5 test department of Bechtel. His supervisor is Andy Wheeler, 6 also.
. 7 Q I meant, at the island, in the GPU, TMI-2 I
8 organization.
9 A I thought that's what you meant, but I just wanted 10 to add that for a little clarification.
11 Q Dwight Walker, in his statement to Mr. Stier, 12 made a statement that -- this is at page 16 of his statement--
[~N
'q,) 13 that approximately 90 percent of his work on TWG was done at 34 the March 4, 1983 meeting.
15 A Yes.
)
16 Q Does that seem accurate to you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q By the way, I did find, on page 20 of your earlier 19 deposition, you do say, "I checked with my supervisor, Dave 20 Buchanan, and he agreed with the removal of Parks."
21 A Yes, but that doesn't mean that I talked to Dave. l 22 Dave was a very tough person to get a hold of. All my 23 conversations usually were with Gallagher. Gallagher used to
() 24 2I' meet with Buchanan probably for about a half an hour a day or something and go through a lot of these items. Gallagher was COMMONWE ALTH RE PORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
92 1 a let more accessible to me.
\
2 Q You are saying you checked, but you checked through. --
3 A Through Gallagher.
4 The only way I talked to Buchanan was if I caught him 5 in the hall sometimes.
c Q Do you recollect having a discussion with Joe
. 7 Chwastyk on March 1 concerning a memorandum in which he
" responded to the rejection of the Parks comments?
8 9 A Offhand, nothing rings a bell.
10 MR. RICHARDSON: Just so I have it clear, your last 11 question was inquiring as to whether there was a conversation I
12 on March l?
n
(,) 13 MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
14 BY MR. JOHNSON:
15 When Slone left the island, it was approximately Q
1 16 June or July, 1982, is that about the time that Ben Slone left 17 TMI-2?
18 A Probably. I am not positive, but it sounds about 19 right. I I
20 You had been working with him at the time he left?
Q l 21 A Yes. Well, I worked with him prior to when he left.
22 During the Quick-Look program, I worked pretty closely with 23 Slone.
() 24 25 Q Did you have conversations with him concerning his departure from the island?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
- 25 93 I
1 A Yes.
O 2 Q Did he indicate to you where he was going, or 3 intending to go?
4 A Yes. He told me he was going up to Shoreham.
5 Q Did he mention on what basis, what he would be 6 doing?
7 A He said he had a, what was it, a personal services 8 contract with them.
I 9 Q Did he mention any name of a company that he might to have been going under?
11 A Not at that time, no.
12 Q When did you first hear the name of a company named
\ 13 Quiltec?
14 A It was probably about six weeks later.
15 Q Would you place that for me? That would have been 16 in August?
17 A No --
18 MR. HICKEY: He said he was unsure about when Slone i 19 left. I think what he is saying is, six weeks after --
20 THE WITNESS: After six weeks after Slone left. He 21 was gone about that amount of time.
22 BY MR. JOHNSON:
23 Who did you learn that name from?
Q ;
24 A Slone.
25 Q From Slone, in a telephone conversation?
COMMONWE ALTH RE PORTING COMP ANY (717)761-7150
526 = 94 ie 1 -A Yes.
2 'Q What did he tell you in that conversation about 3 Quiltec?
4 A. Just that.the company that he'had, that~he was a 5 .vice-president of or something or officer of, was Quiltec.
6 At that time, he. mentioned that there might be openings up
'. 7 there for other people, and basically questioning me whether 8 .I was interested or not.
9 Q Did he solicit a resume'from you?
10 A I.sent him up a resume.
,11 Q Did he suggest it to you, or did you suggest that 12 you send it to him?
13 A I. don't really remember whether, you know, it was 14 one of these situations where he said, " Hey, they may be 15 looking for a few more people up here," and I says, "Okay, 16 I'll send you a resume;" or whether he said, "Why don't you II send me a resume." I don't really remember.
18 I know I did send him a resume, though.
19 Q Approximately six weeks after Slone.left?
20 A Yes, roughly.
21 Q Did you continue in telephone contact with Slone?
22 A I shared an office -- not necessarily shared an 23 ll office, but Rick Park.s and I were in a trailer with about four 24 offices, and we were the only two people in there.
25 And Slone used to call up quite a bit and talk to Parks, COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
k27 95-1 and sometimes I would answer the phone, recognize.that it was k 2 Ben. and talk to him for a while, you know, if Parks wasn't 3 there.
4 Q Did you have discussions with Slone in which Slone 5 indicated to you that Larry King was involved with Quiltec 6 during this period of the summer of 19827
- 7 A I think it was much later on that I found out Larry 8 King was involved with Quiltec, and it was from Ben Slone.
9 Q When he came back to the island for the Quick-Look, 10 or do I have the wrong time sequence? When did.Slone come 11 back for the Quick-Look? He came back to the island after he 12 left.
13 A I think he showed up one day, you know, not as an I4 employee or anything. He just showed up as a visitor, 15 actually.
16 Q Was thal like September, 1982?
II A It may have been. I don't have the vaguest idea.
18 I just remember him cbming back one time.
39 Q Did you discuss the possibility of you working at 0
Quiltec at that time?
21 A No. I think we discussed it before that. And I 22 1 think I was pretty busy that day he was in. I just said 23 hello to him, and I really didn't get a chance to talk to him 24 at all.
25 Q Did you discuss with Parks the Quiltec connection?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
';28 -
96
,-s
, 1 A Yes.
L
'~'
]
2 Q In discussions with Parks about Quiltec, did King's 3 name come up?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did Parks indicate that King was connected with 6 Quiltec?
. . 7 A Yes. I think the first person I heard it from was i
O 8 Slone, but then after that, Parks mentioned it once or twice.
9 Q You said you couldn't remember when Slone mentioned 10 it, but did Slone mention it to you in person or --
11 A No, over the phone.
12 Q And you don't remember when that was?
r\
13
.l A Like I say, I think it was roughly about six weeks 14 after he left.
15 Q And when did Parks mention it to you, if you can 16 recall, for the first time?
17 A Probably August, I guess.
18 Q Were you aware of Parks asking a Bechtel 19 secretary, in fact I think it was Rich Gallagher's secretary --
20 A Yes, Rose Rittle.
21 Q Rose Rittle -- to type some resumes for Parks 22 during August, 1982, and were you aware contemporaneously, did 23 Parks tell you about his request or did you know about it 24
( contemporaneously with him --
\-]
25 A He mentioned something to me, that he asked Rose to COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761 7150 L
k29 97 l
l 1 do some typing'for Larry King.
2 MR. RICHARDSON: The question is whether he mentioned 3 that to you at the same time that she did the typing?
4 THE WITNESS: It was after, after she did the typing.
5 BY MR.~ JOHNSON:
i 6 Q Shortly thereafter?
.. 7 A Yes, a few days after.
, i I 8 Q Did he mention that it had to do with Quiltec?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did the discussion of whether your resume was one 11 of the resumes come up?
12 A No.
() 13 Q To the best of your knowledge, was your resume not 14 involved?
15 A I don't have the slightest idea. I wasn't 16 interested in --
17 MR. JOHNSON: The witness is shaking his head no. )
18 THE WITNESS: Okay.
19 MR. HICKEY: Did you finish your answer? You weren't 20 the slightest bit interested -- I 21 THE WITNESS: Whether it was in there or not.
22 BY MR. JOHNSON:
23 Why weren't you interested? It didn't concern Q
() 24 25 you; why?
A First of all, I talked to Slone. About the only COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
0 98
.,( 1 thing they were doing at the time was up at Shoreham. I had ;
<_-x] \
2 no interest at all in going to Shoreham.
3 I mentioned to him, " Hey, if you have something in i 4 Florida, fine."
5 Q you in fact later did -- or when you got back from 6 Seminole, I think was your testimony before Stier, at the
. 7 end of August, early Septe*ber --
8 8 A Got back from --
9 Q From Seminole, you had visited some friends?
10 A No.
11 Some Bechtel friends down in Florida?
Q 12 A No. I didn't visit Seminole.
k 13 Q Where did you visit? Didn't you go down south 14 somewhere in August and then come back to the site?
15 A I don't believe so.
16 9 7 11 have to go back to your. deposition. It's on 17 page 28.
18 (pause.)
19 Q on page 9 of the Slone deposition which Mr. Hickey 20 took I believe and was produced to us in discovery, the 21 question of you and Seminole comes up. It says in paragraph 22 28, in late October, Ed Kitler told Slone about a job that 23 Quiltec then went after at Seminole Electric in Florida. Kitler 24
( ) had all the details, and a buddy of his down in that area at 25 Bechtel, and he also had a couple of other buddies he wanted tc COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
31 99
, i get working down there. So, you had not gone to Seminole just
\- / 2 prior to --
3 A No. As a matter of fact, in October, I went down i
4 to, actually south of Miami.
5 Q How did you learn about this business in Seminole?
6 A It's pretty common. Wherever they're building a
, 7 new power plant, you know, through word of mouth, you know g what's happening.
9 I'll tell you where half the fossil units are going up io on the east coast right now. I mean, when you're a startup 11 engineer, you've got to know where the next one's at before 12 the last one's over.
(p) 13 Q Okay. It says that you were interested in having 14 a couple of your buddies getting work down there. It says, 15 the Seminol proposal was dated -- th5t apparently is a 16 Quiltec Seminole proposal --
17 A Right.
18 Q -- is dated October 27, 1982. The proposal 19 includes the resumes of Kitler and three of his friends. In 20 your other statement, it mentions Benny --
21 A Benny Brock and John Freeman.
22 Q Yes.
23 A I believe there were only two other friends that r' 24 I submitted. I did not. submit three. There were two friends k ..
25 that I submitted, Benny Brock and John Freeman.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
__-_-_______--__-______________._O
(32 100 1 Q Where were they located when you submitted their
/'
\ 2 resumes?
3 A Benny Brock was working for Ebasco, I believe it 4 was'at Comanche Peak -- I'm not positive about Comanche Peak.
5 Anyway,.I believe he was working for Ebasco at the time.
6 And John Freeman was working for Interglobal at
. 7 Brunswick Station.
2 8 Q Did you ever recommend to Quiltec or to Larry King 9 or Ben Slone for work under Quiltec's banner anybody who had 10 been working at the TMI site, besides yourself?
11 A No.
12 Q Getting back to the typing of resumes by Rose
() 13 14 Rittle in August of 1982, did you ever discuss that with Rich Gallagher or Dave Buchanan or Bill Austin?
15 A No.
16 Anyone, besides Parks?
Q 17 A Just Parks. I mean, after this affidavit came out, 18 after March --
19 March, 1983?
Q 20 A Yes, I talked with a lot of people about a lot of 21 things.
22 We'31 get to that.
Q 23 A I assume you are talking prior to March 23rd or 24 whenever that was.
25 Yes. What was your involvement with the Seminole Q
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 j
-53 3 101' 1 proposal? 'Did you work on it? Did you do something besides
{
2 just'give your resume and the idea to Slone? l 3 A The only thing I did on the Seminol proposal was 4 go ahead and actually tell Ben Slone where the job site was, 5 and'I gave him a mailing address. And I believe I gave him a 6 phone number also.
.. 7 And he called up and found out who to talk to and 2
8 carried-on from there.
1 9 Q Did you ever look at the proposal?.
10 A No -- well, yes, I did. It was after it was mailed-11 I saw a copy of it one time.
12 Who showed it to you?
Q 13 A Rick Parks.
14 Subsequently, you just filed it, what, through a Q
15 telephone conversation with Slone, or how did you follow what 16 was happening?
17 A Like I said, Slone used to call quite often for 18 Rick. And I would sometimes answer the phone and just ask him 19 how things were going, what was happening. Once or twice I 20 actually phoned Ben and asked him if he heard anything.
21 Did you ever inquire about other possible work Q
22 besides the Seminole project with Quiltec?
23 A I think Ben mentioned something that they might be )
l 24 l trying to get something in North Anna, in Virginia, and I told 25 him I might be interested in that.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 i I - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _
!;34 -( 102 .]
1 Q Any others?
1 2 A That's about all I can remember right now. I l
3 Q Did you have any conversations with Herlihy 4 concerning work with Quiltec?
5 A Yes.
6 Q About when was that?
. 7 A Just prior to when he left. Like I said, we were going through this turnovery he was turning over my assignments, _
8 9 and he mentioned that he was going up to shoreham, and that he 10 was going.up with Quiltec.
11 Q Did he say anything about King in connection 12 with Quiltec when you talked to him?
t 13' He may have, I don't remember.
A 14 But you knew that there was a connection at that Q
15 time, anyway?
16 A Yes.
17 Q You were interviewed by Mr. Stier on July 27 18 concerning these matters. I think that's the date. You gave 19 a statement on April 6, 1983. I believe that had to do with 20 another subject.
21 I think it had to do with the mystery man.
22 (Witness nodding affirmatively.)
23 BY MR. JOHNSON:
24 Q You're nodding yes. He can't get your nods on the---
25 A Maybe I should put a bell on.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 w________.________.._._.._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ._
. :35 103 (m 1 Q And then you were again interviewed by Mr. Stier --
\
2 we've been discussing that interview statement, that 3 deposition statement -- and that was July 27, 1983.
4 A Excuse me, what was that, again? ;
l 5 Q The statement that we have been mainly discussing l 6 this morning was given July 27, 1983. GPU supplied us with
. 7 interview notes of two other interviews you had. One was 8 May 23, 1983 with Dean Aulick at the Bechtel trailer. The 9 other one was May 18, several days before, an interview that 10 Travis T. Brown, Jr. had with you. Do you recollect those 11 interviews?
12 A Vaguely, yes.
k 13 Q Do you recollect having additional it.terviews or 14 depositions with lawyers concerning Parks, King, Quiltec, 15 et cetera?
16 MR. HICKEY: You want to put some time frame on that?
17 I assume you are not talking today or yesterday.
18 BY MR. JOHNSON:
19 Q Let me take back the "et cetera" and I'll put a 20 time frame on it. From the time that Parks went public on 21 March 23 or 24, 1983 and the time you left TMI in October, 22 September --
23 A September.
24 Q That's the time frame. Besides your two 25 conversations with Stier, April 6 and July 27, and your COMMONWEALTH RE PORTING COMP ANY (717)761 7150
.36 104 l l
I l ps 1 interviews with Dean Aulick on the 23rd of May --
1 i ~)
l ~
2 A Who's Dean Aulick? I l
1 3 Q I believe he's associated with Mr. Stier. He is a 4 lawyer who works for Mr. Stier.
[h MR. JOHNSON: That's not incorrect, is it?
6 MR. HICKEY: He was working with Mr. Stier, that is
. 7 correct.
8 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 Q And Travis Brown, and I believe he also was working 10 with Mr. Stire -- were there other interviews that you had, 11 either with Mr. Brown, Mr. Aulick, Mr. Stier --
12 A I don't really remember any other --
(\
(_,/ 13 MR. RICHARDSON: If I may interject, just for 14 clarification, one problem, there are so many proceedings that 15 have arisen out of this affair. There was a Department of 16 Labor complaint filed by Mr. Parks against Bechtel North 17 American Power Corporation, in which my firm represented 18 Bechtel.
19 Are you including in your question interviews and 20 discussions which Mr. Kitler may have had with attorneys with 21 my firm with regard to the Department of Labor matter?
22 MR. JOHNSON: Yes, any interviews you have had with 23 any lawyers concerning the matters we have been discussing I) 24 concerning Richard Parks.
O 25 MR. HICKEY: In the time frame from when Mr. Parks went COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
13 7 105 1 'Public until he left?
2 MR. JOHNSON: From when he went public until --
3 THE WITNESS: I don't really remember any others.
4 There may have been.
5 BY MR. JOHNSON:
6 Q Do you remember talking to Mr. Richardson?
_ 7 A Yes.
'E When was that?
8 Q 9 A Constantly, for about three months.
10 MR. HICKEY: It probably just seemed.that way, Mr.
11 Kitler.
12 THE WITNESS: No, it seemed like three years.
() 13 BY MR. JOHNSON:
14 Did you ever see any memoranda of those Q c 15 conversations?
16 A No.
17 Did you tak6 anemoranda, notes concerning those Q
18 conversations?
19 No, I had not.
A 20 Mr. Richardson did not give you any records of those Q
21 conversations?
22 A No.
23 Q And to put a time frame around it, they were 24 roughly in the May time frame in which these interviews were 25 given or made, or were they before or after?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
= _ - _ - - _ - - . . _ _
638 106 1 MR. RICHARDSON: If you recall, Mr. Kitler, the time b 2 frame.
3 THE WITNESS: I don't really recall.
4 BY MR. JOHNSON:
5 Q' What was the subject matter of those conversations?
6 MR. RICHARDSON: Here we are entering into an area
. 7 which is protected by the attorney-client privilege. I am 8 afraid Mr. Kitler will not be in a position to testify about 9 the content of any of those discussions.
10 MR. JOHNSON: Just the subject matter.
11 BY MR. JOHNSON:
12 Q Did'it have to do with Parks?
I 13 A Yes.
14 Q Did you prepare testimony, work on testimony for the 15 DOL proceeding concerning Parks?
16 MR. RICHARDSON: This may or may not enter into a 17 privileged area, but I am a bit unclear as to what you mean by 18 .. prepare testimony." Are you speaking about writing something 19 up?
20 BY MR. JOHNSON:
21 Q Did you write something up?
22 A No, I did not. )
23 Q Did Mr. Richardson write something up for you, i
24 based on your conversations --
5 A No.
COMMONWE ALTH RIPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
- 39. 107
-I 'MR. RICHARDSON: I've got object. This is' covered by '{
O 2 the attorney-client privilege.
3 .Mr. Kitler, because.of that privilege, you are not free
~
4 to discuss-any communications, whether they be oral or written ,
5 which went between you and me during.that time frame.
6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
. 7 Q That's the advice of your-counsel. But.you are
'E 8 free to waive the privilege, if you so desire.
9 ~MR. RICHARDSON: .I beg,to differ with you, Mr. Johnson.
10 The privilege is one which is held by the corporate employer.
11 And as the agent employee of the company, Mr. Kitler is 12 obliged to maintain the privilege unless the company consents 13 to waiverLof the privilege.
14 BY MR. JOHNSON:
15 Q Mr. Kitler, was Mr. Richardson representing.you in 16 that capacity, not as a personal lawyer? l 17 A Yes.
18 Q Did there come a time in-either January or February, 19 1983 when either Mr. Gallagher, Mr. Buchanan or Mr. Thiesing 20 or Mr. Austin asked you concerning your knowledge about i 21 Quiltec?
22 A January or February?
23 Q January or February, 1983.
24 A No.
l 25 MR. RICHARDSON: Could you read that last question back, COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
A$ '. 108 1 please?
O 2 (Whereupon, the reporter read from the record, as 1
a requested.)
4 MR. JOHNSON: Did we get an answer on that?
5 MR. HICKEY: Yes. The answer was no. \
c BY MR. JOHNSON:
. 7 Q How about in March, 1983, same three people?
3 1 8 8 MR. HICKEY: It was four people.
9 MR. RICHARDSON: Thiesing, Buchanan, Gallagher or l 10 Austin.
l 11 MR. JOHNSON: Right.
12 THE WITNESS: I think I had a discussion with Rich 13 Gallagher about it after Larry King was terminated. I 14 believe that happened in, wasn't it Feb1:tary, late February?
15 BY MR. JOHNSON:
16 February 24.
Q 17 A Yes.
18 And what was the nature of your conversation --
Q 19 with Mr. Gallagher?
20 A Yes, this was with Mr. Gallagher.
21 Q What was the nature of that conversation --
22 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me. Just by way of clarifica-4 23 tion, when you speak about Mr. King being terminated, are you 24 referring to his being removed from the site?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717) 7ti t 7150
k41 109 1
l 4 73 1 BY MR. JOHNSON:
. 4
\s'y/
l 2 Q Could you describe your conversation with Mr.
3 Gallagher?
4 A Yes. I talked to Rich, and I am trying to think l 5 back exactly what the content of the conversation was. It was 6 basically, you know, who actually went to King and what the
. 7 circumstances were that King was terminated, and the cause, 1 I i 8 I mean what grounds did they use.
9 And I believe he told me that John Barton went to him 10 and questioned him about being involved with Quiltec and he 11 said that he was, and that Barton had him removed or 12 suspended due to the conflict of interest.
f~x
( ) 13 Q Mr. Brown, Travis Brown, in his interview of you 14 on the 18th of May, and Mr. Aulick, May 1983 interview with 15 you, it is my understanding that this was under the auspices 16 of Mr. Stier, and Mr. Stier was employed by GPU Nuclear to II do an investigation. >
18 Did anyone from Bechtel Corporation interview you 19 concerning your connections with Quiltec from the period -- i 20 A I had a phone call from a Mr. Hoffman.
21 Q Was that on March 10?
22 A It may have been. I don't remember the date.
23 Q 1983?
im 24
( ) A It was 1983. I don't remember whether it was wi 25 March 10, though.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
42 110 ,
Q Assuming it was on March 10, do you recollect that O
1 1
2 conversation?
3 MR. RICHARDSON: I don't think the assumption is 4 necessary to the question.
5 MR. JOHNSON: Okay, yes. k 6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
. 7 Q Do you recollect that conversation?
E A Not really. I remember that he called, but I 8
{
9 don't remember the details of the conversation. I do know 10 they were concerning Quiltec.
11 Q Did you go in and talk to him in Gaithersburg?
12 A No.
13 Did he come to the site and talk to you?
Q 14 A No. It was a phone call that I received from him 15 at my home in Maryland, and I believe he was up here at the 16 site when he called me.
17 I see. Did he ask you to Come down?
Q 18 No.
A 19 Did anyone else from Bechtel call you or make an Q
20 inquiry at that time, approximate time period?
21 A No.
22 Did anyone, subsequent to that time frame until Q
23 September, 1982 when you left the site -- you left Bechtel in 24 September or October, 1982?
25 MR. HICKEY: 1983.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 a
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% 1 THE WITNESS: September, 1983.
l 2 BY MR. JOHNSON:
3 Q 1983, I'm sorry. Between March and September-4 October, 1983,.did anybody from Bechtel management of the 5 n'ature of Koffman, Wheeler, Sanford, did anybody contact you i 6 about Quiltec?
j
. 7 A Yes. There was one instance where, I believe it was g \
2 Bahman Kanga contacted me about what my involvement with 8
l 9 Quiltec was. j 10 Q When was that?
11 A That was probably in April'sometime.
12 What did Mr. Kanga ask you?
Q
(' 13 A I think it.was basically, you know, what I'had done 14 as far as my association with Quiltec. I told him that I had 15 submitted a' resume to them and that I had told them about the 16 Seminole job in Florida. That was the extent of it.
17 And that was the end of the conversation?
Q 18 A Yes. It was very short.
19 Did he appear satisfied with your. answers?
Q 20 A Yes.
21 So, apart from your telephone conversation with Q
22 Hoffman and your telephone conversation -- well, was it a 23 telephone conversation with Kanga?
() 24 A No. I believe I went in his office.
25 Apart from those two discussions, that was it in Q
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
k44 112 I terms of Bechtel management speaking to you about Quiltec?
l 2 A Right.
3 Q And Bechtel lawyers talking to you about Quiltec?
4 MR. RICHARDSON: For the reasons I have expressed 5 before, Mr. Kitler, you are not at liberty to testify about 6 the content of any discussions which you had with me or other
. 7 attorneys with my firm concerning this matter. .
3 8
8 BY MR. JOHNSON: {
9 Q I'm just asking, did you discuss Quiltec with 10 Bechtel lawyers, your involvement?
11 A Yes.
12 You did?
Q 13 A Yes.
14 Getting back to the Hoffman conversation, could Q
15 you describe the conteht of that conversation? On or about 16 March 10, 1983, you had a telephone conversation. He called 17 you at your home. What was the content of that conversation?
18 Did he ask you questions about Quiltec?
19 MR. RICHARDSON: He has already indicated he doesn't 20 recall the details.
21 THE WITNESS: I don't really remember that much about 22 it. It was one of these situations where it was a rough day 23 for me. He called me probably 9:00, 10:00 in the evening.
24 I was sitting, watching TV, tired.
25 COMMONWE ALTH REPORTIN3 COMPANY (717)761-7150
_ _ -___ _ _-______ _ A __
k45 113 1 BY MR. JOHNSON:
2 Q Like now?
3 A Yes, like water dripping on your forehead for 4 four or five hours, you know.
5 Q And what did you tell him?
6 A I don't really remember exactly what was going on.
E 7 I know Andy Wheeler -- I believe they called me from a motel, 8
8 he and Andy, and I don't really remember what the gist of the 9 conversation was.
10 Q Was it brief?
11 A Yes, it was brief.
12 Q Was there any intended followup from that 13 conversation, either on your part or their part?
14 MR. RICHARDSON: Based on what was stated during the 15 conversation?
16 BY MR. JOHNSON:
17 Q Yes, based on the conversation.
18 MR. RICHARDSON: I think he is asking you whether --
19 THE WITNESS: No.
20 BY MR. JOHNSON:
21 Q Did Wheeler or Hoffman indicate they were going to 22 get back to you?
23 A No.
24 Q During the conversation with Hoffman we have just 25 referred to or the conversation with Kanga or either of the COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
1 interviews with Brown or -- let's keep Brown and Aulick out O 2 of it -- either the Hoffman or Kanga discussions, did either 3 of them indicate that you had done anything with respect to 4 Quiltec that might be questionable in their minds?
5 A I think the indication -- well, I think after I had 6 the conversation with Kanga, I got the impression that what I
. 7 had done was nothing that anybody else hasn't done before while 8 working for somebody.
9 I mean, there is nothing wrong with seeking alternate 10 employment.
11 Q You say after your conversation with Kanga?
12 A Right.
13 Q From somebody in particular, or from Kanga, or what?
14 I didn't catch the connection.
15 MR. RICHARDSON: Don't speculate as to what may have 16 been in Kanga's mind or Hoffman's mind. I think what he is 17 asking you is whether something was stated to you, whether 18 Hoffman or Kanga stated to you that there was something 19 questionable about your behavior.
20 MR. JOHNSON: He reached a belief, and I want to know 21 where it came from.
22 THE WITNESS: I had the discussion with Kanga and told 23 him exactly what I had done as far as Quiltec was concerned.
24 And then later on, I contacted my supervisor, Andy Wheeler, 25 and asked him what was happening.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
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- 115
~
3- And he told me,-after'the discussion I had with Kanga, 2 that apparently Chuck Sanford got involved in this,.too. And 3 he said that Chuck Sanford made a statement to-him that:I' 4 hadn't done;anything that anybody else hasn't done working for 5 the' ' company.
6 BY MR. JOHNSON:
... 7 Q' And that was it?
l' 8 A That was it.
9 Q And from Wheeler, Sanford or Kanga, you didn't )
10 hear anything more about it?
11 A That was it. That was the end of it.
12 Q Until today? .
13 -A Yes.
14 Q I would like you to look at these interview notes-15 of Dean Aulick and Travis Brown, and read them, and tell me 16 if they are substantially accurate.
17 MR. HICKEY: Let me ask a couple of preliminary 18 questions. Have you ever seen those notes before, Mr. Kitler?
19 THE WITNESS: I don't remember seeing them before. I 20 may have. I am not sure.
21 MR. RICHARDSON: I've got to object. I don't want to 22 obstruct the purpose of your inquiry, but the way this is 23 being approached, it becomes a classic compound question.
(O
'%/
There are numerous elements in the memoranda. We have 25 two memoranda. I suggest that if you want to pursue this, if COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
,.i .
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'k48 116 i
.n 1 there.are particular items.you wish to direct-the. witness'
(*J - 2 attention to and ask him whether.he has knowledge about the.
l 3 item or whether he agrees or disagrees, that's.the way to go.
l 4 MR. JOHNSON: It will-be more time-consuming. . Okay,.
5 ve can do itthat way. Let me make copies of these.- You l
6 don't have a' copy of it, do you, you~can show'him? !
.. 7 MR. RICHARDSON: I may.
0 l
8 (Pause.)
9
.10 11 12 j
'l 13-
~15 i
16 I 17 18 19 I
20 21 22 23 O '
25 COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
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1 MR.-JOHNSON: Back on the record.
2 BY MR.' JOHNSON: )
.)
3 0 Mr. Kitler, you have copies-of both the interview 4 of May 18 by-Travis Brown, May. 18, 1983, before you, and the
-5 interview of May_23, 1983 by Dean Aulick before you?
6 A.' 'Do you want to start with tha.t one, or --
7 0 Do you have both in front of you?
g Ai- Yes;.I.'ve got both of them. )
9 MR. RICHARDSON: For the record, you have. marked them --
i d
10 MR. JOHNSON: .Yes, I'm going t'o do that. I would.like ]
11 to have marked for identification the -- it is'actually dated 12 May 31, 1983; that is -the date of the tnemorandum to the ' file (gh 13 from Travis T. Brown, Jr., re: May 18, 1983. interview with 14 Ed Kitler.- I would like'to have that marked as Kitler Deposi-15 tion Exhibit 4.
16 (Whereupon, the document was marked as Kitler Deposition Exhibit No. 4 17 for identification.)
18 MR. JOHNSON: An interview with Ed Kitler, May 23, 19 1983,.9:30 a.m., in the Bechtel trailer by Dean T. Aulick, 20 mark it as Kitler Deposition Exhibit 5, so it will be clear on 21 the record what.we're talking about. ;
22 (Whereupon, the document was' marked as Kitler Deposition Exhibit No. 5 23 for identification.)
24 BY MR. JOHNSON:
25 Let's talk about the May 18 interview first, No. 4, D
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
j33-
-118 s.
.- 1 Exhibit 4. The Travis Brown interview.
2 A Okay.
l j; 3 :(Witness perusing document.)
4 0 On page 3 it indicates, in the first full para-5 graph, "Kitler did not.know. King was involved in Quiltec l
6 until late August or early September." ,
7 We were discussing'this, and you said earlier that it !
a was six weeks after, approximately six weeks after Slone had 9 left the site.
10 Does that place this in a time context, this particular.
11 sentence, that that was approximately late. August, early 12 September?
- g .
13 A. Probably roughly there.
14 0 Toward the end, the last full paragraph, it says, 15 "Kitler opines that King deliberately kept quiet about his-16 involvement in Quiltec "' But-you knew about it. To your 17 knowledge, did other people besides Rick Parks know about
. 18 King's connection to Quiltec on site at that time?
19 MR. RICHARDSON: To clarify the question, you are 20 asking him whether, from his personal knowledge, he knows 21 whether other people knew by what other people may have indi-22 cated to him?
23 MR. JOHNSON: I don't care how he knew it. I jusc 24 want to know if he knew it.
25 MR. RICHARDSON: . Well, if it is simply whether he !
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
.119' j34:
,. 1 thinks other-people knew, that partakes of. sheer; speculation.
3 2 I'think --
3 MR. JOHNSON: Well, he can-tell me how he thinks he 4 knows it, or knew it.
5 MR. RICHARDSON: ~My admonition, Mr. Kitler, is don't 6 speculate.: If.there is a basis.in your. personal knowledge,
,7 then you may respond to the question.
8 BY MR. JOHNSON:
9 0 .I' agree. No= problem. Don't speculate; just tell 10 me --
l 11 A Okay; there were other people that knew about King's 12 involvement;in Guiltec.- 'Some of the people in plant
'13 engineering --
14 MR. HICKEY: When? 'When?
15 THE WITNESS: This was in the period of September, 16 October. I am talking about people like Ken Lionarons and j 17 there was another fella, one of the site engineers; I don't 18 remember his name.
19 MR. HICKEY: Does the name Ted Reckardt ring a bell' I
l 20 THE WITNESS: Yeah; Ted.
21 BY MR. JOHNSON:
22 0 You think that's who --
23 A. Yeah.
l 24 0 To your knowledge, did --
25 MR. RICHARDSON: Excuse me; if I could interject 1
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 I
i
j35 .
I 120 1
., 1 briefly, the phrase " King's involvement" is unclear. Do you
<r-km 2 know the extent of their knowledge concerning what relation-3 ship King had with Quiltec?
4 THE WITNESS: No. As a matter of fact, I didn't really 5 know what King's total involvement was. I knew King was 6 somehow associated with Quiltec.
7 BY MR. JOHNSON:
8 O Did you know during that period, September, October, 9 '82, that he was president of Quiltec, or an officer?
10 A. No. I knew he had -- I suspected he was an officer.
11 I didn't know. I didn't actually know he was president of 12 Quiltec until the dist_ssion I had with Rich Gallagher after
() 13 14 King was suspended.
0 Did you talk to King in the fall of '82 about 15 Quiltec?
16 A I talked to him at one time. I talked to Slone 17 concerning the Seminole job, and he said, "Why don't you ask 18 Larry about it?" And I did ask Larry about it, and he said 19 that they had somebody going down to the job sita to talk to 20 those people within the next week or so.
21 That was the only conversation I had with him about it.
22 MR. HICKEY: Can you say about when that was? )
23 THE WITNESS: I would say that was in October sometime.
( 24 BY MR. JOHNSON:
( 25 And in that conversation King indicated to you, 0
I COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
_ __________________a
121 336 1 either directly or indirectly, that he was involved enough to O
'/
2 know what Quiltec was doing to inform you.
3 A Yes.
4 0 I'm sorry it's dragging on a little bit longer than 5 I expected. I'm almost done.
6 A Me, too.
7 0 Besides Ken Lionarons and Ted Reckardt and Parks, 8 did you know of any knowledge of King's involvement in Quiltec 9 on the part of Buchanan, Austin or Gallagher during the time 10 prior to January 1, 1983, say, to pick a date?
11 A. No. No. I didn't know whether Buchanan, Gallagher 12 or Austin knew anything about King's involvement in Quiltec.
() 13 MR. RICHARDSON: That was before what date?
14 MR. JOHNSON: January 1.
15 BY MR. JOHNSON:
16 0 Did you have a basis to conclude one way or another 17 whether information about Quiltec and King was common knowledge 18 at the site?
19 A. I think some of the -- well, not really, not per-20 sonal knowledge. There were a few people that I talked to 21 like Reckardt and Lionarons that knew about it.
22 O The reason I'm asking you this is that your state-23 ment is that you had the impression from King that he deliber-() 24 25 ately -- well, it says that "Kitler opines that King deliber-ately kept quiet about his involvement in Quiltec." Is this COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
122 j37 1 an impression you got from King, from his demeanor or his
,f 3
' ') 2 behavior? )
3 MR. HICKEY: He is referring to a statement that is 4 in this memorandum. )
5 THE WITNESS: Yes. The memorandum -- do you mind 6 repeating the question again?
7 BY MR. JOHNSON: I 8 0 Sure. How did you form the opinicn -- it says 9 "Kitler opines that King delibera:.aly kept quiet about his 3
10 involvement in Quiltec." How did you reach.-- on what b2sid' 11 did you form that opinion? ,
5 ~i 12 MR. RICHARDSON:
n l' think he's asking whether uhere was ...}
+ t .
'(,) 13 a basis. Somer.dmes' people he.ve an3 opinion without any basis. I 14 THE WITN SS: Well,^no specific reasor., actually.
15 MR. JOHMSON: Can I go off the record, and ask you to
-@ read back --
i n li (Whereupon, the reporter read from the record, as 18 ceguested.) ;
9
. 19 BY MR. JOHNSOM:
20 0 .In your May 23 interview with Aulick you say, --
21 l w ,
MR. RICHARDSON S N30.!ct :are you referrin'1 to? .'
l I
22 MR. JOHNSON: Item 4. The first page.
3 i M bY MR, JOHNSON:
l 24 0 ---a s to King 's role in Ot.ile . .c , where you learn ed of
(
25 it, Kitler says, "It could have been as an advisor or nore j
.c l
,. COMMON %w.fr4 REPORhNG COMPANY (?i7) 7E , 7150 Y
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_ i.,.._.._......
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j38 123 l
l
,r , 3 formal. He did not give it a lot of thought."
M./
2 Is that still your impression about the best you could l
3 recollect?
4 A At that time.
5 0 That was accurate at the time.
6 A. You know, we were talking back -- when I stated 7 this we were talking how I felt back, say, prior to January 3 8 as to King's involvement in Quiltec.
9 MS. WOODHEAD: I have one question, and that is: would to you explain why it is that you and others found it frustrating 11 to get things done, or difficult to work at Three Mile Island 12 Unit 2?
\~S? 13 MR. HICKEY: Can you put any kind of specificity into 14 that question?
15 MS. WOODHEAD: Not really.
16 MR. HICKEY: For openers, could you limit it to the 17 witness rather than asking him to speculate about others and 18 put a time frame on it?
19 MS. WOODHEAD: It is not speculation. He previously 20 testified that it was a common feeling that it was frustrating 21 to get things done at Three Mile Island and it was a frustrating 22 place to work.
23 MR. RICHARDSON: I think the testimony was that it took
() 24 a heck of a long time to get simple things done.
25 MS. WOODHEAD: Correct. My question is: why did you COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
124
- J39
.1 find it' frustrating,~hard to get things done?
2' MR. HICKEY: I object toLthe form of the question. I
-3 think'it is vague; I'think it calls for speculation. I think 4 it is so general that it almost reaches the irrelevant. But 5 if the witness can say something intelligent in response to 6 it, he can answer. I object to the form of the question.
7 (Pause.)
8 MR. RICHARDSON: I think the difficulty ds that, in 9 effect, that-is already anl explanation, that it took a long to time to get things done and he is frustrated by that.
11 If you're seeking something in addition by way of 12 explanation, I think you ought to be more specific.as to what
() 13 you're --
14 MS. WOODHEAD: I'm asking him exactly that: why did it 15 take a long time to get things done so that it was a frus-16 trating place to. work at? I'm just referring to his previous 17 testimony.
18 MR. HICKEY: But you're asking for --
19 MR. RICHARDSON: Ms. Woodhead, I think the quandry 20 that you're putting the witness in is thero -- 7 think it is 21 fair to say that there were a lot of things that were done at L
l-l ')
22 TMI, and for each of those things there could be a multitude 23 of specific circumstances relating to the length of time 1
24 which it took to get a specific task or thing done. So I 25 think you've got to narrow the question.
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 L___1____ . _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ . _.
l 125 340-1 MS. WOODHEAD: Do you recall making a statement in the i,m ss 2 nature ilat it was frustrating at Three Mile Island because l
3 it was difficult to get things done?
1 THE WITNESS:
4 Yes; right.
' 5 MS. WOODHEAD: Would you be more specific and explain 6 that statement?
l l 7 THE WITNESS: Scheduling craft support; if you wanted l
l 8 to get craft to help you do a flush or something like that, 9 you had to work through the unions, and usually what would
'10 take you maybe a half-an-hour,you would spend four to six 11 hours1.273148e-4 days <br />0.00306 hours <br />1.818783e-5 weeks <br />4.1855e-6 months <br /> trying to assemble people to do something. You didn't 1
12 have the control of being able to get someone right there when D
i(J 13 you needed; you had to.run around all over the island and 14 try to find somebody. When you needed an electrician and a s
15 pipefitter, you would go get an electrician and bring the Mi electrician to the spot, and then you would go get your pipe-17 fitter and your electrician is gone, and then you go after I
M' your electrician and your pipefitter is gone, stuff like this. l 19 I mean I've spent long hours just trying to assemble 20 people.
l 21 MS. WOODHEAD: Is this sort of thing in existence at 22 other sites?
23 Yes, it has, but I don't think it is THE WITNESS:
I)
\ss/
24 quite as severe. At other sites when I worked as a startup l l
25 and test engineer, I usually had craft people assigned to me, l l
COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150 1
126 and.they stuck with me. They kept in my pocket all day long.
<~\ j 4 7 i V 2 I just about held them by the hand and didn't let them get out 3 of my sight.
4 But here I only needed craft on rare occasions, and 5 when I did need them, they were very difficult to find. Plus l
6 the other thing, at other sites I had enough work that I kept 7 the same people with me all the time and developed a rapport-8 with them, and we got things done quickly, and then they were 9 able to do whatever they had to do, and they were always .
10 there when I needed them. Here, when you're using craft may-11 be once a month and you're using somebody different all the 12 time, it was very difficult to get good cooperation.
.k_, A) 13 MS. WOODHEAD: I see. I don't have any other 14 auestions.
15 MR. JOHNSON: I have two questions that I neglected to 16 ask you.
17 BY MR. JOHNSON:
18 0 Parks gave a statement to, I believe, OI, on July 19 25, 1983, which is part of the discovery. I just want to show 20 you the statement and ask you to tell me if it's true.
21 It says, "It was also during this time frame" -- now, 22 he's talking around November-December '82; let's see if there 23 is anything later in this paragraph.
(<
N 24 MR. RICHARDSON: From which document are you reading?
m 25 MR. JOHNSON: This is Parks' sworn statement to OI. It COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
l 127 j42 i
1 was part of the October 9th discovery response of the staff.
\ D
'(_) 2 It is dated 7/25/83.
3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
4 0 He attributes something to you. "It was also during 5 this time frame that Kitler made a comment to me that Larry 6 King should be careful because it was starting to get around 7 about King."
8 My question is: can you verify that you said that to 9 Parks?
10 A I did.
11 O You did.
12 A. What was the date on that, though?
m 13 It was in the time frame of around November-December 0
x.s)
(
14 '82 time period.
15 3, yes, 16 0 Yes? Okay; thank you.
17 A That was based on Ken Lionarons and Ted Reckart 18 knowing about it.
39 O Anyone else?
20 A Not that I can think of right at the time.
(
21 But there might have been somebody else? !
O 22 A. Possibly; yes. I'm sure there were. If I knew 23 about it, and those two people knew about it, I'm sure there 24 It is just that I don't have any personal
-s g
were others.
25 knowledge of any others.
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-j43 128 1 MR. HICKEY: How about Mike Herlihy?
/.
k_) 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, definitely Mike.
3 BY MR. JOHNSON:
/
4 0 One final question. I just can't remember what 5 the source of this is. It was one of the statements that was 6 given. When Mike Herlihy told you about that he was going to 7 Shoreham and Quiltec, he asked you to keep it in confidence; do 8 you recollect him telling you that?
9 A. Yes.
10 G Do you know why -- let me ask you this: why do 11 you believe he told you that?
12 MR. RICHARDSON: Well, don't speculate, Mr. Kitler; if
/ 13 he told you.
v 14 THE WITNESS: I don't know.
15 BY MR. JOHNSON:
16 But you did keep his confidence?
Q 17 A Yes. )
l 18 MR. JOHNSON: Thanks. I'm sorry it was so long.
19 THE WITNESS: Me, too.
9 20 MR. HICKEY: I've got a question for you. Just one.
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION 22 BY MR. HICKEY: s 23 0 Did you ever have discussions with Ben Slone about f-24 Rick Parks' involvement in the Shoreham work that Quiltec pot?
25 A. Yes.
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761-7150 i
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'129 O' Do you remember what the discussions were in substance?
2 !
A. Yes; basically that -- -
3 O- Do-you remember about when they.were, when these discussions were with Slone?, After he ha'd left the site, 5
-6 A. Yes; it was probably the first couple of weeks that 7
8 g What was the nature of your discussions with Slone g
g abotit Parks ' involvement in the Quiltec work at Shoreham?
A. Well,'he stated that Parks had worked up there 33 12 before and that he had sone contacts at the Shoreham site, and 13 it gave them a pretty good lead to them getting their foot'in 14 the door up there.
15 g Gave Slone and-Quiltec a lead?
16 A. Slone and Quiltec; yes, 17 0 You said a few moments ago, in answering 18 Mr. Johnson's questions, that you cautioned Rick Parks at one 19 point that Larry King should be careful because the word was
! 20 getting around about Quiltec.
i 21 Was.it your view that what Larry King was doing with 22 regard to Quiltec, as you understood what it was, was proper 23 or improper for Larry King to be doing?
24 A. Well, I knew it was not illegal, but based on --
O 23 what should I say -- the guidelines Bechtel has for employees COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761 7150
l
- j45
.130 1
1 as'far as conflict of' interest, I would definitely assume'
) 2 that possibly GPU had.the same thing and that he may wind up 3 getting himself in trouble.there.
4 O My' question was whether you thought what Larry King 5 was doing.was proper or improper?
6 A. I basically thought it was improper,.but I.also.
7 felt it was really none of my business as long as it wasn't g anything illegal or anything violating safety at the plant 9 or' compromising any safety situations at the plant.
10 B When you expressed the view that-Larry King was 11 trying to keep it quiet to-Mr.. Brown in 1983, was your view 12 that King's activities were improper a basis for your thinking 13 that King was trying to keep it quiet?
)
14 A. Possibly, yes. I 15 MR. HICKEY: Okay. I said only one question, and I-16 asked more than.that. I don't have any others.
17 THE WITNESS: How abrut you, Ken?
18 MR. RICHARDSON: I may very well have a number of ques-19 tions, but the problem is that we have Mr. Austin arriving at 20 2:00. There is the matter of eating lunch. So I think what 21 I've got to ask is that the deposition be adjourned. I hope 22 not, but it may be necessary to try to resume it at a later 23 time.
24 Under those circumstances, why don't we adjourn and 25 eat lunch and proceed with Mr. Austin?
COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY (7171761 7150
j46 131 MR. JOHNSON: I'm not sure I understand. If you want 3
I
(N 2 to depose Mr. Kitler at a later time, you certainly can depose
\~sA 3
him, but as far as the staff is concerned, the staff's deposi- j l
tion is going to end today, j 4 l MR. RICHARDSON: That is your prerogative. .I am not 5
6 going to say that I don't have any questions of this witness; 7
I may very well have questions, in which case we will have to g try to take another deposition. I hope not, but we simply 9
do not have enough time for a fuller examination by me of the 10 witness.
MS. WHITEHEAD: That's all right. He is free to depose 11 12 him any time he pleases.
13 MR. JOHNSON: Okay. Thank you very much. You are i O
\J 14 excused. ;
15 (Witness excused.)
16 (Whereupon, at 1:36 p.m., the deposition was 17 concluded.)
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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k ,) 25 COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY (717)761-7150
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1 CERTIFICATE OF DEPONENT'
\ 2 I, Edward Joseph Kitler,-have read this transcript of 3 my deposition-taken on.' January 13,.1987 and with 14 the exception of the corrections noted, if.any, find it to 5 be.a true and accurate record'of my testimony.
6 7
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9 Date Edward Joseph Kitler 10 11 12 13 14 Signed, this day of , 19 15 16 17 18 Notary Public 19 Municipality:
20 My commission expires:
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LO I 25 COMMONWE ALTH REPORTING COMPANY C117) 761 7150
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1 CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY REPORTER
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~ (_,6 2 I hereby certify, as the Notary Reporter, that'the
.3 ' foregoing proceedings were taken stenographically by me, and 4 thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under my direction; 5 that this. transcript is a true and accurate record to the 6 best of-my ability; that the witness whose testimony appears
. 7 in the. foregoing pages was duly sworn by me; that I am
-' l 8 neither counsel for,.related to, nor employed by any of the 9 parties to the action in which this deposition was taken; and 10 further, that I am not a-relative or employee of any attorney 11 or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially 12 or otherwise interested in the' outcome of the action.
() 13 COMMONWEALTH REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
14 By: -/ /IAMNU 15 John Anthony Kelly Notary Public in and for the.
16 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Harrisburg, Pennsylvania My commission expires: October 13, 1990 j 18
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, Mr. John Anthony Kelly l
Commonwealth Reporting Company, Inc.
700 Lisburn Road Camp Hill, Pennsylvania 17011 Re: In the Matter of:
GPU Nuclear Corporation (Three Mile Island Nuclear Station, Unit No. 2)
Deposition of Edward Kitler
Dear Mr. Kelly:
O) i V
Following are two additional changes to Edward Kitler's deposition transcript dated January 13, 1987:
Page Line(s) Changes / Corrections 8 2 "I wrote" should read "I super-vised the group that wrote" 13 19 Change " Parks" to "Gallagher" Very truly yours, f ,
, e' u n/2m Ke nedy P. Richardson KR:ws kr106801 cc: George E. Johnson, Esq.
J. Patrick Hickey, Esq.
Edward Kitler
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eneto.. .......,,...., I # " D DO March 2, 1987 -o v " o - 't-s"om "ia.-n" Mr. John Anthony Kelly Commonwealth Reporting Company, Inc.
700 Lisburn Road Camp 11111, Pennsylvania 17011 Re: In the Matter of:
GPU Nuclear Corporation (Three MileofIsland Deposition Edward Nuclear Kitler Station, Unit No. 2)
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Dear Mr. Kelly:
Please make the to the transcript of Edward Kitler,following changes and/or corrections
('N was taken on January 13, 1987:
whose deposition testimony
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Pace Line(s) Chances / Corrections 36 22 change "was" to "became" 42 8 delete entire sentence very truly yours, THELEN, M 72 R R I N , JOIINSON & DRIDGES h [ ."
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Cc: [ George E. Johnson, Esq.
J. Patrick Hickey, Esq.
Edward Kitler I
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Mr. John Anthony Kelly Commonwealth Reporting Company, Inc.
700 Lisburn Road Camp Hill, Pennsylvania 17011 Re: In the Matter of:
GPU Nuclear Corporation (Three Mile Island Nuclear Station, Unit No. 2)
Deposition of Edward Kitler S o - 3 5t> [ M -
Dear Mr. Kelly:
Please make the following changes and/or corrections to the transcript of Edward Kitler, whose deposition testimony was taken on January 13, 1987:
Page Line(s) Changes / Corrections 36 22 change "was" to "became" 42 8 delete entire sentence l l
I very truly yours, THELEN, MARRIN, JOllNSON & DRIDGES D&- %/
nifer Kuenster JK:ws cc: ldeorge
/ E. Johnson, Esq.
J. Patrick Hickey, Esq.
Edward Kitler l'
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700 LISBURN ROAD, CAMP HILL, PA.17011 (7U) T617150 January 13, 1987 I Edward Joseph Kitler c/o George E. Johnson United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of General Counsel Washington, D.C. 20555
Dear Mr. Kitler:
Enclosed is the original transcript of your deposition taken on January 13, 1987 in Middletown, Pennsylvania.
Please read the transcript and note any errors in content that you discover. Typographical errors or grammatical changes are not usually noted, but any discrepancies in content should be noted.
If you discover an error, make the correction in ink in the L /N transcript and initial the correction in the margin of the page.
i.'~') After you have finished reviewing the transcript, sign the page headed " Certificate of Deponent" in the presence of a Notary Public, who must also sign and seal that page. Most law offices and banks have a Notary Public available.
I Then return the transcript to us so that we may verify your j corrections by comparing them with the reported record. We j will either confirm your corrections or note that our record )
indicates otherwise.
We will then forward the original according to the arrangements made at the deposition.
Thank you for your cooperation.
l Sincerely, '
p John Anthony Kelly, Notary Reporter 1 C' ws t 1 1
l l h L____________ l