ML20237L608
| ML20237L608 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 04/27/1987 |
| From: | AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| References | |
| OL-5-A-010, OL-5-A-10, NUDOCS 8708280174 | |
| Download: ML20237L608 (41) | |
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/) ~ / 0 Focus Grouc #3 - 2/7/87 87 UG 20 P4 :01 M-What we are going to do is ask you to assume that you are home on a weekday morning at 7 a.m.
That you wake up',' turn the radio on, and then you are going to hear this message.
We're going to play a message, and then we're going to discuss it.
EBS Message played.
M What did this message say?
l l
S It says no release of radioactivity in the near future but l
hold onto your socks, because they don't know what is going to 1
happen next.
N
S They say not to worry about your kids.
I tb;nk the instructions about early dismissal are confusine At 7 a.m.
in the morning, the kids haven't gone to school y :t.
Why bring up early dismissal.
I S
Does LILCO have a plan for that?
Or is,this an example of their way of handling thinns, that they put in an announcement which does not cover the current situation?
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S What if you are not listening to your radio?
M sirens will go off in the 10 mile zone.
Sirens first, and then presumably these messages would be broadcast.
S Hott are they going to notify the parents who are not prepared to receive their children?
S I work in a school district.
Early dismissal gets to be something of a joke.
Once those hilses are committed to a certain run, there's no way they get around the district and back.
It would be better if the kids would leave later because tne buses o
don't get there.
S Even if they said there was nothing dangerous happening now, if they were dismissing schools in the event of something getting worse, I cannot see how anyone would not panic.
S The speaker mentioned that it was an alert condition, but 1
they didn't describe or explain what that actually meant.
Where do we stand?
i M
How clear do you think this message was?
S Very vague.
Very little information.
They just seemed to imply there is nothing wrong, don't worry. 1
M How would you feel though if you heard it?
S I would have to make a decision.
They are supposed to be professionals and they are supposed to arrive at a conclusion but from what the message says there is no conclusion.
There is actually more confusion than clarity.
S Several weeks ago my daughter heard a siren go off near her house; she called LILCO and they couldn't give her any information at all.
So based on her experienna, I don't coa any point in believing IILCO.
S None of us trust LILCO.
The message itself wasn't that bad but none of us believe what they are telling us over there.
S Was the reactor still operating does anybody know?
Had it been shut down?
S But a lot of us are not that aware of the process that goes on.
We just read a')out Russia.
A lot of us are not physicists.
S What are the letters for the people who work for tce emergency evacuation for LILCO?
7 M
LERO.
S A lot of the people are prepaid.
They say I have the money in the bank when it comes to a catastrophe, I'm gone.
I have heard that.
I nave heard from people who constructed that thing, from other states, they would give me stories that would curl your hair.
And this is going back 6 or 7 years ago.
At that time, I had no idea.
S I would like to hear a few of the stories.
S One person told me who told me he has his own beer cans in the cement of the nuclear reactor.
S To get back to the issue, to br.'.ng children hcme early from school I don't really understand how this fits in with an alert and other people who might need help in an a?.ert, there must be other issues that need to be addressed.
That is only one dimen-sion, we are talking about everyone.
People in the hospitals, there shotild be othcr steps than letting children out of school aarly.
S If you don't get cher home first, you will have 5,000 people on the road two hours later when the second alert comes along.
j So by this way, part of this problem is solved.
-4
S That message was very low-keyed.
At 6 a.m.
in the morning, I don't think I would have my radio on.
S You would hear the sirens though.
S No.
I didn't hear the sirens another time when they went off.
S But the main point is nobody at LILCO could give her any reassuring information except to say that the thing didn't blow up.
Why the siren went off, what they were going to do about it was left unsaid.
There is nothing reassuring.
S Assuming it is a definite warning, the school issue is totally extraneous.
But I feel reluctant to get in my car and go anyp2 ace without knowing what is going on because you just don't get anyplace on the Long Island Expressway under the best of circumstances at 7:30 in the morning.
And with a few thousand extra people, I think I would feel safer in my house than sitting in the highway.
S The message raised more questions.
It would be totally 1
disturbing to the public to have that sparse information and just 1
be wondering what was next.
S I think my point is that I wouldn't hear the message in the first place at that time of the morning but if I did hear it, I wouldn't send my child to school.
I would keep him home.
M How much danger do you think you would be in at that time from any kind of accident.: hat was oc_urring at the plant?
S It depends on if you really were concerned, or if you thought Orson Welles' grandson was trying to do a repeat.
l l
M No, this is a real message.
S Just like in 1934.
If I came to the conclusion that there was something around the block that was going to eradicate me, I am going to go.
And I would probably wind up in congestion with everyone else.
Where do you go?
S The message seems to me to say that the responsibility of arriving at a decision was left to us rather than them giving us l
enough information that we could make a reasonable estimate of 1
what we should do.
1 1 l
M Well, what did they tell people to do?
S Read their brochures.
S Keep listening to th'e radio.
S I can just see people tearing their houses apart trying to find their brochures rather than listening to the m9ssage.
How many people would know exactly where everything is.
S I would say that the message is not firm enough, it doesn't reassure anybody.
What they should come out and say, if, that being the circumstances, there is no need to panic, everythir.;; is under control.
M You don't think they said that?
S I don't think they said that, no.
They left it to you to go and get a reference book and decide what course of action you wanted to take.
And so, if you did something wrong out of the reference book that iu was your fault.
You read it wrong.
I think it should have been more definitive, stronger, more explanatory and more restrictive in what it tells you wr.:t
'o do.
l t
Give you a course of action to follow which is a safe one.
l 1
L
M What would you have felt if the message had said very explicitly don't do anything, nothing is wrong at this plant right now.
Stay tuned because something may happen but nothing is wrong now, don't do anything.
What would you say?
S I would assume that our governmental regulators would have somebody at the plant and if such a statement were made, they would give more information.
S In Peoole magazine this month, tr.ey had a poll of who are the people you most distrust.
At the bottom of the thing are the lawmakers who are the people who do t. tele things.
And I think they had some clown on the top and you worked your way down.
l 5
I am not talking about a lawnaker, I am talking about a man who is a technician who knows the background and, if you'll pardon vulgarity, his ass is on the line with the rest of us.
I am saying have somebody who is authorized by the government to assess the situation.
M The only way that anybody has about getting information as to what is happening at the plant is from the LILCO operators, i
LILCO is the source of the information from those instruments. !
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S I would like to know what provisions if any they have for shutins-poople who cannot get around--are they prepared to get them out or give them a ride?
M Would you be worried about that now if you heard this ressage?
S Yes, I might be.
If I were a shut in and couldn't get out?
I think I would be.
S If I heard that specific message, I would leave because of Three Mile Island, Love Canal, things that have happened in the last ten years I would go and stay with my relatives who are 20 l
i miles away from Shoreham.
It could change.n 15 minutes and that might be 15 minutes too late.
S I would get my kid out of school.
M How much would you people trust LILCO and LILCO representatives to tell you the truth about what was happening at Shoreham in case of some sort of incident?
1 l )
S None at all.
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S They have their own livelihood.
I S
You don't even know :f it is a tape recording.
M What if you turned on the television and they started to interview nuclear engineers from LILCO and they said not to worry about it we have the whole thing under control there is no need to panic.
S Anchor people from the main channels of the city, putting their life on the line, speaking to the engineers with the backdrop of the nuclear plant, it kind of puts you ill at ease.
M What if they are also interviewing some other scientists who are telling you about the possible dangers of this kind of acci-dent, and how this is not under control and it might get out of I
hand?
S Good luck.
S In actuality, is LILCO required to notify the proper governmental agency?
4 10 -
M Yes.
i S
At Three Mile Island, there was a major lapse of time before tney notified anybody.
They tried to get it under control first.
S Assuming the message told me to evacuate, I wouldn't know where I would want to go.
M This is your first message.
You have heard this message and every 15 minutes they repeat it.
Now you will hear another message.
M What did this message say about the safety system at the nuclear power plant?
S I don't think they are sure about it at all.
I don't think i
there is any safety once it starts leaking out.
It is in your water.
Even if you are ten and a half miles away?
You mean you're not going to get any of this nuclear stuff in your water or anything?
M Did anybody hear anything that the message said about the safety system?
1 I
S No.
l I
S They said what they did exactly the first time with the exception of the milk producing animals.
And then they said j
there was a minor leakage.
And they then contradicted it, don't worry about it.
I i
S At the beginning of the message, didn't it say there had I
been no release and then they said there nad been a minor leak.
Contradictory.
They still want people to be calm.
M So, how clear do you think this message was?
S More clear than the first one.
I i
S It was very clear.
Get the hell out of there.
l S
More confusing.
Contradictory.
S Even after the first message, I would have found my phone book and looked up that map.
I think probably everybody would.
1 i
i
) ________ a
S I've never gotten this thing in the mail.
4 4
S This is the first I have known about it.
S The maps are made up into zones.
M Could you tell from what they said in the message whether you are in or out of the zone?
S Yeah.
l S
I am in it.
l M
What would you do if you heard this message?
l S
It is very contradictory.
First it said there was no laak and later on it said there was.
First of all, there is no place to run on Long Island.
I would stay home.
S I would make sure that I had gasoline in my gas tank.
S I would make sure that I had some canned food in my house.
But I actually live outside the zone.
I i
i i
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M So what would you do if you heard this message?
i S
Make sure my gas tank was full.
Close all the windows.
M How much danger would you feel you were in after you heard this second message?
S At that time, none at all.
I am west and there could be a great difference between living by Shoreham or west of Shoreham because they have to go by the thing.
S I am very much in the zone, I am only 5 miles away from Shoreham.
And my feeling is that I would start checking every-thing out, my car, make sure it is running.
My granddaughter lives only 4 miles away and I would go over there and make sure they are all right.
I would not be satisfied with what they told me.
S I guess I would do the same thing, I would worry about my l
l grandchildren who are in Rocky Point.
That would be my primary concern.
I wouldn't want to try to leave the area because even on ordinary days the traffic is horrendous.
I am 4 miles from the plant, my daughter maybe 6, and I would be concerned about her and the children.
My son would have left for work already.
As I say, there is no place to go to and there were no instructions as to what to do.
I never received a brochure.
i l
1 l
m a
S Well at 9:19 in the morning, I would be at work, I would immediately leave the job and come home with my family.
I work in Farmingdale.
M What if you couldn't get back in because all six lanes of the LIE were going west?
S I would try to find some way.
If not, try to find some place to stay locally.
1 S
Do you have the only car?
S No.
But according to the message, I didn't feel it was a full emergency, I was just trying to get home and listen to further instructions.
9 So would everybody else.
I l
S Does your wife drive?
I S
I would tell my wife to stay put based on that announcement.
l The phone lines would be congested.
S I would have plans to meet my husband where he works but I l
would have already left during the first message.
l l
l l
l
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l S
We only live a mile and a half so I think at that point we would already be in danger.
So I would probably go east.
M Do you think you could get away from it by going east?
S Not necessarily but I would just try to get further away i
from it.
S With the first message, whoever who was in the house with me, I would have taken.
Because I am very nervous about those kinds of things.
I would have been on the road and anybody I could have picked up on the route if it was possible, I would have.
Get out of the range of the thing and if I could go further than 20 or 30 miles, I would just keep on going.
Make sure I was definitely out of rance.
If, God forbid, if something did happen, I would be away.
S Have they tested this 10 miles, how do they know that it is not going to go over 10 miles?
We don't know that and here we are sitting within 12 miles, and not knowing, so I think I would take off.
I just came to that conclusion today incidentally, because I was pro and con.
Now I am against it.
S I would get my wife, get in the car and go east.
Because there is no way you could go west because at that time of the morning they would be going to work, 1
M Some people have suggested that all lanes on all major roads, whether they are east or west, would all be going west.
Like all six lanes on the Long Island. Expressway would all be heading west.
S That is impossible.
S I am not a commuter right now but I do travel the Expressway quite often in the morning.
But from what I see of the nightmare of trying to handle three lanes, it is totally impossible to have them all going west.
S I think that the six lanes would be a good idea but I think there would be so many accidents, that it would be closed down.
S Right now, the way I feel about it, if there is a possibility of it opening, my husband and I would try to move off l
Long Island before that ever happens.
I would panic and try to l
get off.
l l
l S
My alarm clock goes off at 6 a.m.
so I would hear that first announcement.
My husband and I wouldn't have to discuss it, we would just pack everything, throw the three kids and dog in the car and go.
We would go to Vermont and stay there.
17 -
l
i i
S What about the money you have in the bank?
S We don't have any.
S I can tell from the message that we live just beyond the 10 mile limit.
My children and grandchildren live within 3 miles so I would be on the way out there to get them.
S I am still not sure from the message if I am within 10 miles.
It says Port Jefferson, Riverhead all the way to Sunrise and I sincerely doubt that everything in between is within the 10 miles.
So probably even though I am in that box at 8:15 I would be at work and outside the 10 mile limit.
I think if I were home at that point, I would probably wait and see.
S I would check the basement.
And one thing I would be really interested in is the weather pattern.
That would be my first thought.
Depending on how the wind was blowing, I wouldn't be on the road yet.
S I am about '0 miles from it but I would not want my child in school next door to it.
I would prevent him from going to school I would go there and get him after the first message.
Then I or would wait at home for a while.
And if the messages got worse, i
then I would try to leave.
The second one, I still don't know if I would leave.
S The message doesn't say whether they are taking the kids home or are they taking them beyond the 10 mile limit.
S I am within 10 miles, village of Port Jeff by the hospital, I am a skeptic so I left after the first message for my relatives in Smithtown.
S On the first message, they also say at the end if anything new comes up every 15 minutes we will advise you.
And all of a sudden message #2 comes up and it gets a lot stronger than it was I
for message #1.
Now there is a little bit of radioacti7ity, hide your cow.
Now I would start saying, man, what could #3 be.
Now if I am not convinced by then, I would get away.
If there is a big fire and it is spreading, I would get away, I wouldn't sit there and say I have a little hose and I am going to water it down.
I am going to get away from it.
The hell with everything, my bankbook, my house.
S The more I think about it, I may worry about Shoreham more than other nuclear plants because I knew some of the steamfitters who worked there because of the stories they told me.
I would
{
leave after the first message.
1 S
I think the steamfitters have three shifts.
They found out they were not making progress that they should have.
So they laid off the midnight shift.
The next week productivity _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
increased, it went up by 18%; two shifts over three shifts.
So that goes to show you that there are definitely misses in the construction of that plant.
They're not doing their job.
M Let's assume that it is now further along in the morning, and either in your car or in your home you hear this next message.
Play EBS #3 M
What did the message say about the safety system at the plant?
S It might be on the verge of failing.
S That is what I read into it.
What they said was there is a possibility of a failure occurring and now I am worried.
(
S I thought it sounded more low key than number 2.
S I would like to know what the potency of the release is.
Don't they hcVe a certain number that is a small amount or a big amount.
Or what?
M What did they say about what they were trying to do to assess that. - _ _ _ - _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
S Field teams.
That must mean they are out there with geiger counters trying to figure out how much leak has occurred.
S They make mention of low fission.
But they didn't go into detail.
Plus, they changed the word from minor to small release.
That is a very significant change.
They said it was released into the air, but nothing about which way it was blowing and how fast it was blowing.
S I don't think they know and that is why they have field teams out.
S My translation of that tape is hey guys maybe we don't know what we are doing.
S The tape said there was a possibility of a major safety system malfunction so I think that they are not going to tell us t
when that happens.
S You may see when it happens.
S Did you ever hear a thing called rumor propaganda?
How one thing can go to something else?
From something very small to something very, very major, They are trying to play that down because now this rumor propaganda can be happening very easily. - _ _ - _ _ _ _ -
S It is still very unrealistic because what they are telling you to do is one get your animals inside and two read your manual.
That is not very comforting.
There's not much information.
S I just didn't feel that it was clear; I don't feel that they know what they are doing because they would know if it was released or there is a good chance that it was released.
Here they are saying it was released.
The important thing they stress is that there has been a release; what does it matter at this point whether it is a little or a lot.
S In many ways, I think that message is ridiculous.
One thing about the animals.
Not too many people here are dairy farmers.
Where is the government in all this.
I would not rely on just that information.
I think the local government would be involved.
That one message would not be my only source.
'!ou would think the Governor would get on and make a speech.
S If something goes, he would probably get on and say something.
M The Governor and the County are refusing to participate in the planning because they believe it is impossible to evacuate.
Both the Governor and the County Executive are refusing to take part in this exercise.
This is why they are not mentioned.
1 S
From the time of the third message, I would think that if they are worrying about major safety system malfunctioning, they should have started evacuation processes and notified people and they didn't say they are.
M In this message, did they tell anybody to evacuate?
S No.
M Did they tell people outside of the 10 mile zone that they were safe and that they didn't have to do anything?
S Just listen to the radio.
In number 2 they said, coming back to the dairy cows, you should put them under cover.
In number three the order to put animals under cover was stronger.
S I think that is ridiculous because no one uses that as a source of nutrition.
Everybody goes to the Dairy Barn.
S I think they should get a clairvoyant to solve the whole thing.
M One of the problems is that if this actually happened there would be more than one source of information.
If you are getting LILCO's information in this message, how much would you believe LILCO as opposed to other sources. l
1 S
It depends on what the source was.
A lot of the sources will be taking LILCO's information.
M You know what the news media is like, they interview this guy and this guy and so on, and they're all different opinions, right?
S But suppose you see the newscaster talking to you on the TV with a radiation suit on?
S Well, they are the only people who would be at the plant, LILCO has most of the information.
M Do you believe them?
S No.
S I have come to the conclusion that everybody here is anti-LILCo.
S I would like to make a museum out of the plant.
S Who would take it over if they did close it down?
I S
Build a big casino out there.
S I would not listen to any messages from LILCO.
I would estimate the situation to be ten times worse than what they were saying.
M What would happen if say Dan Rather was out here?
He was interviewing some scientists from Brookhaven National Laboratory?
And they were saying there is no reason to panic.
Minor accident.
We are trying to get this under control.
Just stay inside your house and close all your windows.
S Well, if they were standing out in the open, bareheaded talking to Dan Rather, I would believe them.
S The politicians also are at fault; they do not inform us of what is happening.
They are after the vote only.
S The fact that most people are afraid of nuclear energy because they don't know about it and instead of the politicians warning us about the evacuation, they don't do that.
M The politicians believe like most people in this room that it would be impossible to evacuate.
S How long do you get to evacuate.
Is it going to be 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> before anything happens of a nature that is really catastrophic?
S You certainly ought to be abic to evacuate the Island in 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />.
j S
Maybe ten years ago I was coming home from work and I was going east.
I lived in Stony Brook at the time and there was a collision on the parkway.
And chaos, we sat there, it was hot, one fellow was trying to cut right across the parkway, through the trees to get from going eastbound to the westbound side.
We stayed for two hours.
So let's not talk about evacuation.
Finally, they landed two helicopters to take the injured people out of the cars and then after they got them out of the cars, another half an hour a trickle started.
I never forgot that.
I said Mother of God if we ever have to get off this Island in a hurry, how in God's name do you do it?
And that was on the Northern State Parkway.
S If it is impossible to evacuate, why in the world doesn't one of them have the nerve to say let's close the place down.._ _ _______________ _____ _ _ _ - __
__a
S Most of them have said that.
S But why doesn't somebody do something about it.
S Twenty years ago, it was a great idea.
S It seems as if LILCO isn't losing any money, it is the suckers on Long Island problem.
S I just wanted to add that the local politician cannot do anything because the licensing of it is from the national govern-ment not from the local government.
And as far as the time ele-ment, nobody knows how long it actually takes because it could be a complete breakdown in minutes.
S The federal government has wanted this all along.
They thought this way back in the beginning, when they said why not solar, it's safer, this is endangering the environment.
No one tied this into how we're polluting the whole planet with the water and the soil and everything.
And it all is not good i
policy, but it all comes frcm the governments of the world, i
S I think that when we talk about people opposed to LILCO opening Shoreham they fit into two categories now one.
There is a certain group of people who oppose any form of nuclear energy because they feel it is inherently dangerous.
Then there are l l
1
many people who feel that safe nuclear energy is a possibility but that LILCO itself'cannot be trusted.
I would put myself into the category of someone who is not opposed to nuclear energy, but I am very much opposed to anything built out there by LILCo.
M It is now a little later in the morning and we are going to hear another message.
Play EBS #5 M
Assume you are in one of those zones, essentially the entire EPZ.
S They said there are four different classifications.
Is that the most severe, or the next to most severe.
M I don't know.
S It's very vague.
S You have to do this one first because hopefully the pecple nearby get our before the people further away.
M What did this message tell people to do?
S It told me to go into the barn with the animals.
S To follow specific emergency routes and go to reception centers.
S It told people who were in certain zones to evacuate but of course none of us know how to evacuate.
S It said that there are ; articular routes.
M What do you think they mean by a trained traffic guide?
S Suffolk County Police.
S LILCO repairman.
M If you were out in the street, and a LILCO person told you not to go down the road what would you do?
---- -.----------- -J
I S
Run him over.
S I would obey him.
S The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is currently considering the possibility of opening the plant over the objections of the local authorities.
If that plant is opened, the local authori-ties have got to cooperate in an evacuation.
So by the time this I
happens, there should be policing.
M What would you do now?
S I would leave.
i l
M And you would not have left before?
l I
I S
No.
S I am still outside of the zone and I am still sitting with my windows closed.
S I live inside the area and I frankly do not believe that all 1
these volunteers are going to tell you where to go and how to get there.
I do not believe it.
Police might, but LILCO employees _ _ _ _ _
who are family men with wives and children of their own, they will go home to take care of their own first.
I would go off on I
my own as fast as I could.
t S
I guess I would feel the same way but at the same time I do know a person who is a member of that LERO group and he told me that they hadn't had any training at all so if push comes to shove, he is going to worry about his wife and son first.
Because he has had no training.
They talk about a lot of things, but they don't implement them in training and so forth.
It is not organized.
I would just leave and do the best I can, I guess.
S I would also be forced to leave, I live within the zone.
I would try to have an orderly exodus off the Island or at least a l
little bit further away.
I S
I would have kept my son home, gone to the gas station gassed up, even bringing extra gas.
I would have left immediately.
S I would have heeded the first warning.
Whoever was still around, I would try to get with a few neighbors and store up some provisions.
It doesn't take a second grade education to know you are not going to get out.
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l
l S
I would go out on the first call.
S I am within the 3 mile limit, I woLId have left at the first alert by car or by boat.
S I would have too.
I wouldn't think about only going to a shelter.
It would be a long time before I would think about going back.
S I would try to get to Connecticut.
S I think anyone when they heard the word evacuate, that's all they'd hear.
Turn the radio off and go.
S I think at the point where I heard the 3rd message I would have gone to Smithtown or Huntington.
S I probably would have left by the third message.
I would have left immediately.
S I would have left with the child but I think that people living closer, should have left earlier.
o l
S I am within the limit, I left after the first message.
l 1
l S
What about the gas stations, do you know how many people are going to pile up.
You think the gas lines of the 70s was bad.
S When people say that I live 12 miles away and I am going to wait until the people closer get out, I don't think so.
M Do you think there will be any violence on the roads?
S Sure.
There was violence when they had the gas shortage.
S There would be looting, ripping off.
They would have a field day.
l
)
S I am considering if they put the plant on full power, I don't think I am going to let my son go to school next door.
He
)
is pre-school and I don't have to send him there.
l S
Once this catastrophe, your beloved beautiful Long Island can never come back.
I personally love Long Island.
And I want to protect it and especially from Shoreham.
If I have the possibility to do what I can to get that thing not to run, I will do it.
Something has to go wrong.
Then listen to all the pros.
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M Do you think it is possible to have an accident at Shoreham similar to the one in the Soviet Union?
I S
Yes.
S I would consider that Chernobyl was built a long time before Shoreham.
I would hope that they have prevented that type of things.
l S
I think it should be pointed out that worldwide, the generation of nuclear power has been very unsuccessful.
France has had breakdowns, England has, Germany has, now we are hearing about Russia so we assume that there is no really safe way of generating nuclear power at least with the present technology.
l Something always goes wrong, S
The only reason we heard about Russia was that they couldn't j
hide this under the table.
Who knows what happened before that.
S My father is a physicist at Brookhaven National Lab and I probably wouldn't even call him.
He feels the nuclear power is 1
safe.
S I think Chernobyl was a classic example if misinformation.
l They not only didn't tell the western world, they didn't tell their own.
1 j
S The Chernobyl plant was a different kind of plant and they had no containment so I don't feel the same think could happen here.
Less likely.
S One of the perils that we face is that there seems to be in this country a refusal to realize that people have responsible i
jobs.
Trains meeting head on.
Yesterday, I heard of the man who j
l tan through three red lights.
These instances have been
{
magnified.
It seems that part of our problem is the failure of people to accept their responsibilities.
But Russia controls everything and they ntill had a major disaster.
S First of all, you have brought up a good point.
We are not in the same class, as far as the quality of material.
In Russia, you have no liberty to deviate from any accepted practice like you have here, S
Chernobyl was actually caused because they deviated from accepted procedures.
S I think that nuclear accidents are embarrassments.
We should come right out and discuss our options, let's forget this embarrassment nonsense.
Let's get to the truth about how bad things really are or aren't.
I !
I
S I think Chernobyl taught people a lesson.
You would think that people would open up their eyes around the world.
Nuclear power is not the answer.
It's too dangerous, its polluting our J
ground, car society and everything and that is too dangerous and it seems like man doesn't have the wisdom to solve society's l
l problems because they think they're so wise that he has the l
answers, but he isn't humble enough maybe to realize that the Bible and God have the answers.
M I want to play one more message.
The next one tells everybody to evacuate from the area within the 10 mile zone.
I i
l S
They all sound alike.
The wording is repetitious.
M If you heard this message how much danger do you think you would be in?
l l
S A lot of danger.
Because they have substituted from minor to small to major.
The other messages were repetitive.
They do tell you to evacuate even beyond the 10 mile limit, the implication that it is a very serious leakage.
S They constantly refer to these guides that are supposed to help you.
Based on the survey they made, there are not going to be a lot of guides around because they had that in Newsday and 1
attitude was particularly school bus drivers, me first and the hell with the next guy.
I think they are putting entirely too much emphasis on it.
S I don't think anyone would be looking for a guide, they would be on their way out.
They would think of their own safety and that of their family.
I M
LILCO says that in case there was an actual emergency like the one described in these messages that people would listen to what they were told in these messages, that they would not leave i
and that they would obey instructions.
What do you think?
S Their credibility is not that great.
S Do they believe we are going to sit there and listen to their messages.
How could they be more or less reassuring.
I would hate to see the messages get any lower keyed than that.
S Once they hear something going on at the Shoreham power plant, they are going to panic.
M They say that the way that people behave in natural disasters, e.g., hurricanes, floods and tornados and what you find when you ask people to evacuate you find less people will evacuate.
The same thing will happen here they say.
S This is different though.
Those accidents occur time after time.
They might have weathered out one of those disasters in the past but no one goes through a nuclear disaster.
S With nuclear power, we are dealing with an entity that we don't know that much about.
As far as the damages from radiation, and so on.
My cousin when she was little was exposed to radiation and twenty years late
- she had cancer of the thyroid.
S Speaking of thyroid, for the first time of my life I am glad that I have an underactive one because the people who have an overactive one already have all that radioactivity in their system.
M Do you think that if there actually were an accident like this, and LILCO told people to stay who lived beyond 10 miles that a large portion of those people wouldn't listen.
S I don't think they would listen.
S I wouldn't.
S That is when the real mass hysteria starts.
People over 10 miles get nervous too.
l l
l l l 1
S I think most of Suffolk would try to go into Nassau.
And most of Nassau would go into Manhattan.
S Getting back to Chernobyl, what good is evacuation when this stuff has gone to countries thousand of miles away.
Where can you hide?
S That is why they should close them all down.
S The degree of harm done to a person in Finland, they have maybe 1 in 50,000 chances of developing cancer along the line opposed to a person 20 miles away having a 1 in 50 chance.
S Even in Poland, they had to destroy their crops.
What do the people eat?
S My uncle's a fireman.
A lot of time he directs traffic.
He told me he never gets more insults than when he's telling people you can't go this way there's a major fire.
Sometimes he gets scared for his life.
And that's something snall.
S How many people actually died from the Chernobyl incident within the first month?
S 50.
S That is a lot of people dying immediately.
It could be ten times that amount over the long range effects.
Do you think that would be a fair estimate?
S No way of knowing.
l M
Does anybody else hatte any comments.
S Yeah, IT WILL NOT WORK. 1
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