ML20237L572
| ML20237L572 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 04/27/1987 |
| From: | AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| References | |
| OL-5-A-008, OL-5-A-8, NUDOCS 8708280157 | |
| Download: ML20237L572 (57) | |
Text
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FOCUS GROUP 41 I,EBS Messages)
M:
I have done work on the responses of Long Island residents towards the Shoreham Nuclear Plant for quite a number of years, and this is a continuation of the research that I am doing.
Jane is going to give you out just a one page questionnaire that I would like everybody to fill out and then we are going to start discussing things.
What we are interested in doing essentially is finding out how Long Island residents would react if the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant was turned on, it was operating producing electricity and then something were to happen at that plant.
We are go.ng to begin by asking you to imagine that you are at home sometime in the future on a weekday morning at around 7 a.m. and you get up and turn on the radio and you are going to hear a message on the radio, an announcer will say a message.
EBS #1 Played i
(This is the emergency broadcast system.
The emergency broadcast system has been activated due to an incident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
This is a test.
An alert condition was declared at 6:17 a.m.
today at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
No release of radiation has occurred.
No release of radiation is imminent.
An alert is one of four emergency 8708280157 B70427 PDR ADOCK 0500 2
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classifications and involves conditions which could jeopardize the Nuclear Plant's safety system.
The Director of Local Response for Enr:gencies at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Jay Kessler, has consulted with LILCO officials and nuclear engineers and has recommended the following public action.
1.
Schools within the 10 mile emergency planning zone should immediately implement their early dismissal plans.
The dismissal of school children is part of the emergency plan adopted before Shoreham was put in operation.
It does not mean that a release of radiation is imminent.
Parents should not drive to school to meet their children.
2.
If you are within the 10 mile emergency planning zone you should refer to your Shoreham public emergency procedures brochure to determine the planning zone in which you live because it could be useful in helping you understand future messages.
The 10 mile emergency planning zone around Shoreham is roughly bounded by Main Street in downtown Riverhead to the East, Main Street in Port Jefferson to the West, and Sunrise Highway to the South.
If you live within the 10 mile emergency planning zone you would have received periodic newsletters and other emergency information.
If you are not within these boundaries, there is no reason for you to take any action.
If you are located within the 10 mile cooner.
Keep tuned to this emergency broadcast station for'the latest official information.]
- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _. _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - What did this message say?
S:
This is a test; it is not an emergency situation.
M:
We want to assume that this is a real situation; that you turn on the radio.
Assume that this is a real live situation.
You are home and you hear that message but they don't say this is a test.
What did it say about what was happening?
S:
Something did happen but they were very vague about it.
They said something happened, but nothing is wrong which immediately makes me suspicious.
Seriously.
You wonder how much to believe.
S:
They are trying to assure you that there is no radiation coming from the plant.
However, on LILCO's record you wouldn't believe it.
S:
The emergency broadcast system has its rules and regulations.
They are required to do that once something has happened.
LILCO would have nothing to do with the emergency broadcast system.
LILCO would give them the details but the emergency broadcast system by government regulations has to carry them out to their rules and regulations.
S:
Also considering the fact that whatever happened, happened at 5:17 in the morning if there was something wrong, I would say it j
l
_4 _
would be effected already.
1 M:
What would you assume had happened when you heard this message at 7 a.m.?
S:
It is tough to assume something like that if we are not really j
versed in nuclear power.
I think we can assume nothing major happened, otherwise there would be some type of Red Alert.
I do not know what the emergency broadcast system would use but something definitely went wrong and what I would worry about is degenerati.sg conditions.
They said nothing is imminent right now but how about fifteen minutes from now, it might be imminent then.
M:
What would you do when you heard this message?
Let's go around the table.
S:
I would like to have all my family around me, I would like to know where they are in the event something much more serious came up in another half hour or an hour.
And it would lead me to believe that after that little fiasco in Russia there might be a lot more to this than meets the eye.
M:
But you wouldn't do anything?
S:
No, I would wait for another broadcast.
I live just ten miles from there, I am right there.
l
.)
____-__ _ _ S:
I would get my family around me.
Other than that, I wouldn't leave as I don't think that makes sense.
I don't think there's any place to go.
S:
At 7 o' clock in the morning the kids aren't going to be in school they are going to be at home.
The best thing is to stay by your radio.
And if there is a leak, get into the basement because there'd be panic.
The major problem is that people panic.
Because they don't know anything about it and you couldn't teach them then.
S:
I have been in the government since '61 and they don't make decisions, not without coming from up high.
It takes them more than a day to make a decision about whether to approve annual leave or not.
Forget about a nuclear emergency, it would take a while to make some kind of a major decision.
I would get my family and I would move contrary to traffic to the south.
I live on the south shore.
I would get a boat and go because it takes them too long to tell me, "you're dead."
I might die but at least I would make the effort.
But I would go south not west.
If it took them that long tc make the announcement or for me to hear the announcement, sirens should have been going off.
And you know that somebody is going to be up at six o' clock.
And the moment one of the neighbors hears, they're going to be screaming out there.
There's going to be all sorts of nonsense.
Just hearing the announcement would make me move.
Dcn't use the public roads.
The roads are going to be sidewalks.
I could do better on a boat than I could in a car.
I L
, don't have a boat.
I got a.38 that will take care of a loc'k.
Chaos would prevail.
i S:
I would panic; I am 20 miles away.
I have a sister whose husband works for LILCO and she believes in it.
We don't discuss this matter at home.
I would probably wait for announcements, I
)
would make sure that he was with me, we are together, and I don't know what I would do.
I would panic.
I don't trust anything that goes on out there.
And like someone -- I don't know who said it, I'm sure this must itave been going on all evening and this was the first that anybody found out about it, you know, early in the morning.
I would bet my bottom dollar that they made light of it.
S:
I don't know if I would panic, but I am very cautious so I would take steps to get away.
I don't think I would get a boat.
I would try to take back roads, try to get to work in Bethpage just to see if anybody showed up.
I woulu 'scing my wife and child and other members of my family and get as far from the site as possible.
But I would try not to panic.
S:
I live a half a mile east of the plant and I think I would make a nice gin and tonic.
I figure I have been exposed and I would just sit it out and see how bad it's going to be.
S:
I live across the street from Brcokhaven National Laboratory i
and about four miles south of Shoreham.
Brookhaven Lab has
_ - _ - - - -- -. probably the most sensitive radiation alarms in the world and they are in a direct path of the prevailing winds out of
+e north.
So Brookhaven Lab would probably know about a leak in Shoreham because technicians for Shoreham live out there.
A public warning system has been in place for 45 years and they are well instructed and well informed as to what to do and so I would wait to hear.
S:
Before listening to,everybody's opinion, I would probably have waited for two more broadcasts and if we were still on alert, I would leave.
But after what you said [another subject], I think the first alarm would oe enough so I would go.
I wouldn't want to take any chances.
M:
What do you think about that message?
Was it clear or unclear?
S:
It sounded clear to me.
S:
Innocuous, nothing.
S:
Generalities.
That's all they use.
S:
I think that is exactly what they would say if something happened, you don't want to alarm people so you are going to be very vague.
You don't want to create a panic, you know some people are going to panic as it is.
You maybe don't even know the extent 4
of whatever happened.
And the people there don't know what is going to happen.
It may get worse.
S:
Suppose they wanted to keep you calm.
Well, they got out.
That's another possibility.
S:
It depends on how your mind works too.
It didn't tell you anything and yet it did tell you something.
S:
It is not going to put anyb7dy at ease.
M:
You don't think people would feel confident when they heard that message?
S:
Oh no.
S:
I think the message would have been shorter and more of a demand to stay where you are at than what this guy was saying.
S:
What is that old saying?
The bullet that you hear missed you.
So anything that's going to harm you, if you don't hear it or hear about it, I think you're better off.
S:
I think any alert from Shoreham would send panic into people.
S:
More people would die trying to escape, on the highways.
i l
i
_9_
Three quarters of the year at 7 a.m.
you have an onshore breeze that comes up from the ocean, across the Island, past Brookhaven National Labs and then runs up towards Shoreham.
S:
The prevailing winds don't cross the island.
They stop.
They come from both directions.
M:
The message described the boundaries of the 10 mile zone.
Are you in that zone?
i S:
No, I would say about 7 miles west from the boundaries.
S:
I would say about 23 miles from the plant.
i S:
I would say that I am right across the street from the boundaries; I am off Main St. in Port Jefferson, a little west of 112.
I may or may not be just across the street from the boundary but I consider myself within that radius.
S:
I would go downtown it is outside of the limits.
I just live up in the hills so I would *Tve only a five minute walk.
I'm in the ten mile zone.
S:
I live about 15-18 miles away (Patchogue).
S:
I was surprised to hear that Sunrise Highway was within the 10
.--__-----_--_------------a miles radius.
S:
Most definitely.
I could walk there.
S:
I'm about four miles south.
M:
When you heard this message, would you believe that you were being told the truth about what was happening at the Shoreham plant.
How confident would you be that they were telling you everything that they knew?
S:
They didn't tell you anything about what was happening.
S:
If they told me there was no radiation leaking, I wouldn't believe that.
S:
You have to understand that it is not Shoreham or not LILCO making the announcement.
It is the public broadcasting system.
S:
I understand that.
They get their information from whomever.
S:
They get the information from LILCO but before it goes out, it has to be verified.
It cannot come from a private organization.
S:
I understand that it must be from some government official.
But he has no knowledge and therefore he is not going to say
_ _ _ _ _ _ anything.
But he is going to cover his tail feathers.
S:
Who are you going to trust in a situation like that?
S:
You just don't know.
That's the hard part.
It would boil down to thinking of your own family.
How to get J
yourself out of danger.
I M:
So, you would be a little suspicious?
S:
Yes.
M:
At the point when you heard that message, how much danger do you think that you and your family would be in from what was happening in Shoreham?
S:
I wouldn't be in immediate danger like a couple of people right here but I would try to evacuate.
But I don't think there would be any point in trying at that point because there would be mass hysteria.
i S:
Everybody would be going west on the Expressway.
If something
{
serious happened, everybody would be out there.
You would never j
move, not on the LIE.
1 l 9:
I am 20 miles away, and I would not know what to do.
Do I try to leave?
Do I stay?
I am thirsty, do I drink the water?
What do you do?
That's the big problem, here you are in your own home and you don't know what to do.
S:
It would boil down to thinking of your own family.
How to get yourself out of danger.
S:
Hearing an announcement like that, I would say 7 of the 10 people in this room would definitely want to get out.
How many people in Suffolk County?
EBS #2 Played (This is the emergency broadcast system.
The emergency broadcast system has been activated due to an incident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
This is a test.
The site area emergency condition was declared at 8:19 a.m.
today at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
A very minor release has occurred.
A site area emergency is one of four emergency classifications and indicates that a major plant's safety system could fail.
The local emergency response organization for residents living in a 10 mile emergency planning zone around Shoreham has been activated and is responding to the incident.
The Director of local response for emergencies for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Jay Kessler, has consulted with LILCO officials and nuclear engineers and has recommended the following publi; action.
Schools within the 10 mile emergency planning zone should continue to implement rheir early dismissal plans.
The dismissal of school children is part of the emergency plan adopted before Shoreham was put in operation.
It does not mean that a release of radiation is imminent.
Parents should not drive to school to meet their children.
If you live within the 10 mile emergency planning zone, you should refer to your Shoreham Public Emergency Procedures brochure to determine the planning zone in which you live because it could be useful in helping you to understand future messages.
All milk producing animals in Zones A, B,
C, D and E should be moved into shelters and placed on stored feed.
The 10 mile emergency planning zone around Shoreham is roughly bounded by Main Street in downtown Riverhead to the east, Main Street in Port Jefferson to the west, and Sunrise Highway to the south.
If you live within the 10 mile emergency planning zone you would have received periodic newsletters and other emergency information.
If you are not within these boundaries, there is no reason for you to take any action.
If you are located within the 10 mile planning zone and do not have a Shoreham Public Emergency Procedures brochure, public information and a map of the zone are included in a special insert of the Suffolk County telephone book and a more detailed map is in the local yellow book.
Posters for the emergency information have been provided to local businesses,
{
public parks, beaches, and recreational facilities.
Once again, the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station is in a site area emergency condition.
A very minor release of radiation has occurred.}
l l
l
- 14 M:
First, what did this message say about the safety system at the nuclear power plant?
S:
It is in danger of failure.
It seems like you are in a little bit more of a state of emergency now and yet you are being urged not to panic, not to go pick your children up from school.
And you know that most mothers are not going to sit home.
They are not going to be able to sit home.
S:
Conflicting; they don't know what they are saying.
It sounds like they are pretty sure that there has been some sort of a release because they want you to take all milk producing animals away.
S:
It tells me that they don't quite know what is going on, how bad it is.
So they are taking all these precautions.
They should have told us what they were doing to reassure us more.
M:
How clear did you find this message?
S:
It was more specific.
S:
Why do they keep going on about the posters?
I keep wondering that when I'm hearing it.
They go on and one about the posters.
S:
I wonder how much the 10 mile radius means.
If you are 10
_ - _ _ _ _ - miles from the 10 mile radius, what then?
S:
If there is a radiation leak, the radiation won't stop at 10 miles.
S:
It says they've had a small release.
They are obligated to tell you because LILCO is under so much public pressure right now.
I live across the street from Brookhaven National Laboratory, a federal installation, and it has probably had several releases over the past forty years.
Yet we have never heard about them because they are under no public pressure to tell anybody anything.
What do you consider a small release or a big release?
How many smoke alarms do you have in your home?
They have radioactive sources in them, they are releasing small amounts of radiation as long as you have them.
And what happens when they wear out, what do you do with them, throw them in the garbage and they go into the landfills.
Shoreham, they have to tell you about because of public opinion and everybody is panicking because our local news media has decided to take on the bandwagon and blow it up out of proportion.
S:
But you are going to panic anyway.
S:
Understood but before it became public, there wasn't that much ado about it.
S.
I think the key thing is what is a small release to the I
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ average layman.
He doesn't care if it is a small release or a medium release.
At 7 a.m.
there was no release; I am sure that was untrue.
S:
When did you first realize that Shoreham may be a danger to you?
S:
After Three Mile Island.
Before that, you didn't even know it existed.
Basically, it was just there being built.
Shoreham broke ground for it 24 years ago; there was no public opinion then.
S:
It doesn't make any difference how long ago they had them.
What is happening is that the public is getting educated; we have seen disasters that have happened over a period of time and they are finding that people have been permanently damaged due to it.
So what Long Islanders are afraid of now, is_that that could be them.
And they are trying to become educated and they are being fooled because of all the political vibes.
We do want to know, and we do want to protect our families.
That is the question.
We want to know what is going on and here wit
- two tapes we don't know what is going on.
M:
So, ycu feel that these messages don't really tell you what has happened?
S:
No, they don't tell us a thing.
They tell us don't panic.
\\
They tell us that they are doing some kind of an evacuation, e.g.,
getting the children home early from school and that is left up to i
the schools to do.
They are not telling a family what to do; they 1
are not telling people how to get off of Long Island and that is i
one of the biggest problems.
They cannot tell us how to get off this Island.
They can't.
But they want to open this and what is I
happening is that we don't know enough about the nuclear plant but we have fear because we are not allowed to know.
S:
If there is no reason to be afraid, why not educate us?
My brother-in-law works for LILCO and he obviously is pro-Shoreham.
Why not educate the public; he won't even take the time to educate me, what about the public?
M:
Who would do this education?
LILCO?
Would you believe anything that they would say?
S:
Possibly not; probably not, I should say.
Who are the forces behind LILCO.
I know there are strong lobbies in Washington; a lot of very, very powerful Republican leaders.
If they want it that badly, start educating us.
S:
The problem is the evacuation.
No matter what happens, no matter how much we know, i
S:
You don't even have a change of getting away.
i l
M:
What else did this message say?
S:
Considering that they're telling you to being livestock in, Long Island is also a farming community, your produce is going to be contaminated, and your ground water.
1 S:
They had a warning about the milk producing animals.
" Feed them on stored grain," which also means that in the future you have a problem.
i M:
When you heard this about the animals, what would that make you think was happening at the plant?
S:
That radiation had. been released and not only are the animals breathing it and getting it, we are.
M:
But what would you do?
S:
Buy seed stock.
S:
Now that is the question.
I think you would probably go out and pick up some powdered milk; now you are going to have the stores bombarded.
S:
What about the public water supply?
You are afraid of any milk products and also any of your produce.
And in the future 1
1 l
besides.
So you will be going through your canned goods.
S:
I don't think you will be hanging around that long.
I would definitely be gone.
M:
Would you stay in your house.
S:
I probably would stay in my house because I would not want to get involved with that mass evacuation.
S:
I might go.
I would think about my mom, my kids, whoever was around me.
S:
I would go down in my basement and listen to the radio.
S:
I left at 7:00.
S:
My first reaction would have been fear because of non-education.
I would definitely leave.
S:
I work in the city and I would be coming east.
Would they stop me or would they allow me to travel in that direction to get near my family.
M If there were LILCO employees out in the street, directing traffic, what would you do?
20 -
S:
I would run them over.
To get to your family, I think you would take all measures.
S:
I wonder if the LILCO employees would be there?
S:
My lifespan has already been reduced at this point.
S:
Just sit in your basement.
S:
Why do you keep saying basement, do you have a shield there?
S:
No, what you want to do is to put as much dirt and concrete between you and the outside world as possible.
Basically, you wouldn't want to get out on the road for any reason.
Wherever you are, sit.
S:
I was always considering hearing east because west would be ridiculous.
Montauk Point is a good place to go.
59 miles is a good distance.
But there is only one road out there, and they're all going west.
i S:
You talk about your education, with this latest bit with l
Iranscam et cetera, et cetera, do you trust the government to tell you the truth anymore?
S:
Think of the roads.
Even the ones where everybody's supposed
to be heading out east.
They'd be going west.
S:
Both ways.
Both sides.
And the shoulder would be utilized.
S:
There would be such a mass exodus, they'd be driving past the plant to get off the island.
M:
When you heard this message did you believe that LILCO was telling you the complete truth about Shoreham?
S:
No.
It brings back too many thoughts about Russia and how they denied the truth.
Periodically, you heard a little bit more.
S:
That's the reason why the price of good meats has gone up so much.
The Europeans destroyed all their animals.
M:
Where was that accident?
Does anybody know how far the radiation spread?
S:
I was going to ask you that.
I was wondering, the part about the education, when he was saying go to Montack because that's far l
enough, 59 miles, it seems to me.
S:
I believe they picked it up over the United States as a radioactive cloud passed.
S:
Let's try to talk one at a time because my secretary will never transcribe this tape.
S:
I believe it circled the globe as a radioactive cloud.
It's been over the United States now and all the rest.
It went up through Scandinavia with the winds.
It may have gone to Switzerland, about 60 miles from Minsck is where it started, this Chernobyl, and they effectively evacuated I believe, don't quote, 20 miles at least totally because of the extent of the radioactivity.
S:
You know what crossed my mind just a moment ago?
He said something about people may not allow him to go east for his family.
We just brought this up.
When those -- we had -- students from the United States and they found radioactivity on them when they came back into the United States.
I wonder if anybody would let Long Islanders anywhere.
S:
How would they stop them?
S:
If they made it to New York nobody's going to be able to stop them.
S:
No but, you know, I wonder.
I really wonder.
S:
I wonder how long it would take honestly to gat out.
Are we l
talking days?
t S:
10-14 hours to get off the Island.
S:
Oh no, I would say more than that.
S:
I have been on the Expressway 3 hours3.472222e-5 days <br />8.333333e-4 hours <br />4.960317e-6 weeks <br />1.1415e-6 months <br /> from Port Washington to Port Jeff.
On not even a heavy day.
And we are talking everybody is leaving; we are talking days.
S:
Your biggest problem would be vehicles that broke down.
From lack of fuel or mechanical problems.
1 S:
Oh, people would be running out of gas left and right.
M:
At this point, when you heard this second message, how much danger do you feel that you and your family would be in from what was going on at the plant?
S:
A lot.
M:
Why don't we play the next message.
Assume now that you're listening to your radio, whether you're in your car, on your boat, or at home or at work and that you hear this next message.
EBS# 3 Played.
[This is the emergency broadcast system.
The emergency broadcast system has been activated due to an incident at the Shore Nuclear Power Station.
Its is a test.
A site emergency was declared at 8:19.
A site ar',a emergency is one of four emergency classifica-tions.
It indicates that major plant safety systems could fail.
A minor release of radiation into the air occurred at 8:19.
The local emergency response organization for residents living in a ten mile planning zone around Shoreham has been activated and is l
responding to the incident.
The director of local response for I
emergencies at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station; Jay Kessler, has
{
l consulted with LILCO officials and nuclear engineers and has recommended the following public actions.
The public need not take I
any protective actions beyond the following at this time.
If you live within the ten mile emergency planning zone, you should now refer to your Shoreham public emergency procedures brochure to determine the planning zone in which you live.
LERO field teams have been organized and dispatched to collect data on the amount of the release.
All milk producing animals in zones A, B,
C, D,
and E should be moved into shelters and placed on stored feed.
A 10 mile emergency planning zone around Shoreham is roughly boarded by Main St. and downtown Riverhead to the east.
Main St. and Port Jefferson to the west, and Sunrise Highway to the South.
If you live within the 1-mile emergency planning zone, you'would have received periodic newsletters and other emergency information.
If you are located within the ten mile planning zone and do not have a Shoreham public emergency procedures planning brochure, public i
/
mu
l j information and a map of the zone are included in the special t
i insert of the Suffolk County Telephone Book.
A more detailed map is in the local yellow book.
Posters with the emergency information have been provided to local businesses, public parks, beaches and recreational facilities.
If these conditions change in i
the future, these recommendations may change, and we will inform you immediately.
Once again, the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station is in a site area emergency.
There has been a small release of radiation into the air.
This message will be repeated every 15 minutes over this station unless new information is available Keep tuned to this emergency broadcast station for the sooner.
lastest official information.]
M:
What did this message say?
S:
I thought it said the same thing as the one before it.
S:
No, you have the teams coming out.
It also said there's been a release into the air, the last time it was just a release.
It also didn't do anything with your kids this time.
This is three separate scenarios.
This is not a continuation.
i M:
No, this is supposed to be a ce ntinuation.
This assumes all one event, one day.
S:
And they're continuing on with the program.
As they're l
finding out more, they're telling you more.
I am also extremely bored by hearing exactly the same words since 7:00 a.m.
Change the words.
Tell me the same thing if you want to, but change the words so that I understand that there's a new message coming on.
I've been listening to this thing every 15 minutes, in the mean time they've been playing the top ten.
I don't know what else would be on there but S:
You know what would vorry me though i:- that if it went into the air and they are sending teams out but each time it is getting worse.
So it's certainly not good.
Nothing reassuring about it.
M:
Would you feel more or less reassured after you heard this message than what you heard before?
l S:
Less.
S:
It is tough to be reassured about anything at this point.
No matter how they told you.
l l
S:
Even if they came on and told you, I wouldn't believe anything, no matter what they said to me.
i S:
Orson Welles all over.
Everything's under control.
You can go back to your houses.
Especially what they said about the livestock.
l S:
They are still telling you that they don't know what happened or how much danger you are in.
i M:
How would you feel at that time?
4 S:
Listening to this, this is a fear that I live with.
This sends chills because someday I will see something like this happening and I know that I am gone.
It is really frightening.
M:
You wouldn't try to leave?
S:
I really see no point in it.
Number one I have to pass the plant.
I mean, I am so close to the plant, I mean, I see it every day.
If they are making an announcement, I know radiation has leaked.
I have been exposed, whetner it is a fast death or a slow death, is really going to be my option.
I'd rather just stay home.
If you have been exposed to enough radiation when they're evacuat-ing, your chances, being so close.
1 S:
They're evacuating because they have to, no matter what.
S:
Generally, they don't want to evacuate people until the danger is passed because you're goi:4g to be going through all this.
S:
Knowing LILCO though, they are not going to even release any information unless they foresee or they have had a release.
1
l l.
l S:
How much can we trust the LILCO plant if there is an in-house minor problem?
How much can we trust them, when they should evacuate us to evacuate us?
In other words, especially with all
{
the politics, in fact they want to open so desperately.
Would they try to cover up something?
S:
I think they would until it was too late.
5:
Who is this guy Jay Kessler, is he a government employee or a LILCO employee?
S:
I think he is a LILCO employee.
I'm not sure.
M:
Who do you think he is?
S:
The local emergency response director M:
What's that?
S:
Yeah, that's the guy with the broom.
I have no idea.
It's the emergency broadcast system, which we assume is government.
U.S. Government.
And they are quoting him so I would tend to believe that he was a government official, although there is absolutely no basis for my belief other than my personal M:
What if you heard on the television or the radio, the I
reporters who were covering this, that Jay Kessler'was a LILCO employee?
S:
Oh, goodbye.
l i
And the local emergency response organization is completely M:
made up of LILCO employees and that there was no government involved at all in this.
S:
I believe there is a higher tribunal that has assessed LILCO 1.3 billion dollars as being mismanagement in the building of Shoreham.
That's a good one.
A quarter, 25 percent, they have no good management experience.
They have, at least not to my satis-faction, demonstrated any management technique that's worthwhile.
If you ran a business in which one quarter of your profits of your total operating cost was wasted, there goes your profit margin, 1
you're not doing anything.
They've been living off the public and that's all.
1 S:
I have a question here.
First of all, Wiluhl was let go as a President because he was held responsible for mismanagement at Shoreham.
There were cracks in this and this was defective in that.
Catacosinos did not change a damn thing that Wiluhl did.
So it is still crap, it is still defective.
So the man does not have a job, someone just recently replaced him as President and they haven't changed a thing.
I i S:
That is what I was going to ask next, if they would announce on there the whereabouts of Catacosinos was headed away or to, or what.
If they say he was headed toward the plant, I would stay where I am but if they say he just had an emergency vacation in Greece, I am gone.
S:
I have room on the boat.
M:
How would you feel if you saw people, your neighbors let's say, beginning to leave?
Because everybody here apparently thinks that almost everybody is going to leave.
So if you saw your neighbors beginning to leave how would that make you feel?
S:
I would want to leave too.
I do not want to be there all by myself.
S:
If my brother-in-law stays, then I would leave because he is
\\
an operator at Shoreham and he believes everything that is going on.
So if he stays in that house, I'm leaving.
M:
I want to play the next message.
EBS#4 Played.
[This is the emergency broadcast system.
The emergency broadcast I
system has been activated due to an incident at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
This is a test.
A general emergency condition was declared at 9:39 a.m.
today at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
A general emergency condition is one of four emergency classifications and indicates that there has been a failure in plant safety systems.
A release of radiation into the air occurred at 9:39 a.m.
The local emergency response organiza-tion for residents living in the 10-mile emergency planning zone around Shoreham has been activated and is responding to the incident.
The director of local response for emergencies for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Jay Kessler, has consulted with scientists, LILCO officials and nuclear engineers and has recommended the following public action:
1.
If you are within the 10-mile emergency planning zone you should refer to your Shoreham public emergency procedures brochure to determine the planning zone in which you live.
2.
Evacuation is recommended for people in planning zones A-M, Q and R, identified by zone liners and area description.
People in these zones will be safer if they evacuate, as soon as possible, away from Shoreham.
The reception center and evacuation routes are listed is the Shoreham public emergency procedures I
i brochures.
If you are not within planning zones A-M, Q and R, i
there is no reason for you to evacuate.
If you are outside the 10-mile emergency planning zone, there is the reason to take any action.
If conditions change in the future these recommendations i
may change, and we will-inform you immediately.
3.
All milk producing animals in the 10-mile emergency planning zone should be moved into shelters and placed on stored feed.
You will be directed along evacuation routes by trained traffic guides who know which way you should go.
If you have been advised to evacuate but do not have your own transportation and cannot obtain a ride from a neighbor or someone else, special buses will travel along emergency routes to transport you to the reception center.
If you have a bed-ridden, handicapped or other person in your home who needs special evacuation assistance and who is not previously registered with the local emergency response organization, please call 3.48-6710.
If you have previously registered, there is no need to call now.
Help will soon be on its way.
Before you leave your home or business, make sure you have closed all windows and doors, turned off all appliances, extinguished any fires and closed fireplace dampers.
Lock all doors when you leave.
Take blankets and pillow with the for your own use and any medication that you regularly take.
You could be away for several days.
The 10-mile emergency planning zone around shoreham is roughly bounded by Main St. and Downtown Riverhead to the east, Main St. and Port Jefferson to the west
.]
i M:
Turn it off and wind it forward to the next message.
We don't have to repeat this.
Do you have the number there?
t
r S:
No.
M:
OK.
Well just play it through then.
S:
Play it through?
t M:
Yes, if you don't have the number,
(.
emergency planning zone, you would have received periodic newsletters and other emergency information.
If you are located within the 10-mile planning zone and do not have a Shoreham public
\\
emergency procedures brochure, public information and a map of the zone are included in a special insert of the Suffolk County Tele-phone Book, and a more detailed map is in the local yellow book.
j i
Posters with the emergency information have been provided to local businesses, public parks, beaches, and recreational facilities.
The posters describe the reccamended evacuation routes out of each zone.
Once again, the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station is in a general emergency condition.
There has been a release of radiation into the air.
It is advised that people in planning zones A-M, Q and R evacuate, as soon as possible, away from Shoreham.
Reloca-tion centers and evacuation routes are listed in the Shoreham public emergency procedures brochure.
This message will be repeated every 15 minutes over this station unless new information is available sooner.
Keep tuned to this emergency broadcast station for the lastest official information.]
M:
What would you do after this message?
S:
We don't know since we are outside the area.
We have not gotten a map, the poster.
So its not there.
S:
It says if you live in the area, they have sent you the information and I guess it is my own fault, but I keep throwing the junk mail away without opening it.
The only thing I open from LILCO is my bill.
Also the thing in the Suffolk phone book; it kept falling out so it went in the garbage.
And the yellow book, I really don't think I have anything in there either.
So I don't know, you know, it says A through M and Q through R, hell with the people in 0 and R whenever that may be.
Now if you'are going to put your cows indoors and put them on stored grain and then leave, they are going to drop dead because they cannot get any more stored grain themselves because their hands don't work too well in that sense.
So w q bothes?
M:
Assume that you live within tne 10 mile zone and that you are in one of those areas that they told to evacuate.
Again, you would find that out from television.
Virtually the entire zone was asked to evacuate.
If you saw a map of those things.
So let's go around the table, now what would you do when you heard that message?
S:
I would be more concerned at this point, particularly since they said to make your house completely airtight, close the d npers, make sure everything is bolted down.
Now you don't even have time to go shopping.
This has only been a matter of a couple of hours.
I would be very nervous.
M:
What would you do?
S:
I would try to discuss it calmly.
Get my husband and children together.
I wouldn't know what to do.
S:
You don't have to worry about shopping because they wouldn't j
i let you out with any food.
No matter what it was.
If it is within j
the evacuation area, it is contaminated.
So they'd take it.
Where is this reception center?
Who is going to welcome you with open arms?
That's what I'd like to know.
S:
With your blankets and pillows.
M:
They would announce it.
It used to be the Nassau Coliseum.
I S:
But wouldn't the radiation extend that far?
I mean, given Chernobyl, I mean are you sure you'd be getting into Manhattan without having this cloud of radiation fall on you.
S:
I would say n.ost people on Long Island are leaving.
M:
You are in the 10 mile zone what would you do?
Would you
- _ - _ _ _ listen to what LILCO was telling you?
S:
I would listen to everything they said.
This is the government telling you chough, it is not LILCO is it?
M:
This is LILCO.
This information comes from LILCO.
S:
Okay, but isn't the government the one who is dispersing it?
l I
M:
No, LILCO gives the information to the radio stations that are involved in this broadcast system.
They're just local radio stations.
Read by local announcers.
So when you were told to evacuate, what would you do?
S:
I would listen to them.
But I wouldn't get out there on the roads.
S:
I would present my passport to tne customs inspector in Bermuda.
S:
I would pro' ably leave, if I had my family together.
l M:
What about you, you are in the zone?
S:
At this point, it sounds like it is more localized now.
I really still don't think I would get any further than the Long l
l l
l l
l
t Island Expressway which is, forget it, 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> away.
It is ridiculous.
So, I would probably stay.
S:
I am wondering with all the traffic at this point, if you walked how far would you get?
S:
You'd be out in the air.
S:
I also have livestock.
I would have a lot to consider.
I would be leaving a lot.
They are already telling me to bring my livestock in and you cannot just leave livestock.
They're already saying days now before you can return.
I have already been exposed, I think I would take my chances.
S:
That is the other thing, how far do you go?
Do you go from E. Yaphank to Port Jeff and then stop?
S:
Do I get over 112?
M:
Would you do that?
S:
Probably not.
But it would be according to the vibes I am getting around the table, it would be a nice vacant area to stay because nobody else would be there.
S:
Remember the livestock.
I think using the track record all i
1 i
) morning, the scenario has been getting progressively worse and worse and worse.
I would be to the point where I would consider destroying the livestock, as hard as that might be, because that might be the best thing for them.
S:
That's true except I have been exposed to as much as they have.
S:
I understand.
S:
I don't want see anybody die of radiation.
S:
I don't think you'd want the animals to.
S:
No, but I've been exposed to it, too 'cause I've been in there.
\\
S:
You would prefer euthanasia rather than
)
S:
Yeah.
S:
This is what you would do?
You would have to make sure, of course, before you'd destroy them.
S:
The thing is we are still talking about the same radiation, nyself and the animals.
l S:
I think you have to allow for overreaction.
What if they are wrong, what if the leak isn't that bad?
You're thinking so pessimistically.
I think you have to try to save your life and take your best shot.
After the first or r,econd warning, if you started walking, you can wall pretty far in five hours.
I don't know if you can save your life, but maybe you can.
S:
You could go 17 miles.
M:
Do you think that the thing would evacuate an entire 10 mile zone, 100,000 people, if something had not happened?
t S:
I think at this point it is very bad.
I was trying to back it up a couple of messages.
S:
Isn't there a lot more than 100,000 people in that 10-mile zone?
M:
I'm not sure exactly how many.
I know there are at least 100,000.
S:
I know there's at least that, and I think there's a lot more.
S:
This year.
Three of four years down the road.
M:
Now what did this message tell people who live outside the 10 mile zone?
S:
Not to worry.
M:
What if they had some LILCO engineers, nuclear engineers, on TV they were interviewing them and they were saying that nothing serious is happening and people shouldn't leave?
S:
Whose paying their salaries?
They are congenital liars.
M:
You wouldn't believe them?
S:
Not on a stack of bibles.
M:
Would you believe people if they had scientists who were saying that it was a very serious and dangerous condition and people should leave?
S:
Yes.
S:
On the side of caution, most definitely.
S:
If it was that bad you wouldn't be able to pick anything up on the set or the radio.
You'd get the first message and then you'd get static.
M:
So at this point, how much danger do you think you and your family would be in from what was going on at Shoreham?
S:
You would have been exposed already.
S:
It depends on the release.
It really does.
t M:
OK, let's play the next message.
EBS#5 Played.
M:
What did this message tell people to do?
l l
l S:
The whole area.
The 10-mile radius.
l l
S:
Told everybody to get out.
S:
It's out of control.
M:
Was this message clear, do you think?
l S:
Yes, very clear.
M:
You felt it was clearer?
What did it tell people who were outside the zone to do?
l l
\\
l l
)
S:
To stay tuned because there may be changes which tells me that I better start preparing if I haven't already.
{
S:
Much more released.
But at this point, even if you're 5 miles outside the zone, when do you start worrying?
M:
Would you believe LILCO that you were safe if you were outside the zone?
S:
No.
It is in the air.
S:
How did they come up with a 10 mile area as the danger zone?
That's what I would question at that point.
S:
I believe it is that way all through the U.S.
I think they have set up the criteria for 10 miles.
Is the Coast Guard automatically notified to reroute shipping.
S:
How many disasters have there been to come up with a 10 mile radius.
Do they take an average?
The only one in the U.S.,
I think, is Three Mile Island.
S:
It has probably been done by simulation.
M:
First they thought it would be virtually impossible to have an accident, and that you didn't have to have evacuations.
Then they
- - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _. began to gradually to feel that maybe there could be some acci-dents, but they weren't really dangerous so they would only have to evacuate people in small areas.
Many scientists said it was impossible for that kind of accident to happen at Chernobyl.
They said it was a chance of 1 in 500,000 years of plant operation for that to happen.
I S:
People in Jamesport, for example, have to virtually go through the area to get away.
Is that part of the routing?
M:
What is your image of how radiation effects you?
You seem to think if you get one "this" of it, you're done.
S:
I am just assuming that enough has been released that they want to evacuate so there is already a danger.
We all know that radiation has effects on you; they don't know to what extent except l
that a certain dose will kill you.
My life I figure is going to be j
shortened in some way just by the fact that they want to evacuate.
M:
Do you assume that the length of time that you were exposed to this radiation is not important?
That if you were exposed to it l
for 5 minutes or an hour, its the same if you were exposed to it for 2 days, 3 days?
I I
5:
No I am assuming that the longer you are exposed to it the I
faster that your death will come.
However, I figure it is going to
___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - rake me a good hour just to get past the plant even if I walked it.
So already my exposure then depending on the level that is being released is high, as we are hearing from this it is a high level, I know Brookhaven releases all the time.
You can see by the burned areas on the ground.
So I know we are all exposed to it but for them to evacuate you know it is not a minor thing, so it is just how much time and how long.
You are cutting your lifespan.
By how much, I really don't know.
M:
But you wouldn't be worried about the duration of exposure for you to want to leave?
S:
I don't feel I could leave, am not going to get very far.
M:
So even though LILCO told you that you were in danger and you should leave, to be safer, you wouldn't believe them.
S:
I wouldn't believe them and I don't think I could get past the 10 mile zone to be perfectly honest because I have people coming from the east, just traffic wise.
I cannot get out of my road in the summer, we are talking about a two lane road.
You just can't.
1 It is just not feasible that I will get anywhere.
We're talking 1
about two-lane roads.
M:.
OK, I want to play another message.
___ - _ - _ EBS #6 Played M:
What did this message tell people to do?
S:
Panic.
S:
They were told there was a major release of radiation.
M:
How clear did you think this message was?
S:
Contradictory.
M:
You thought it was contradictory?
S:
Sure.
Outside 10 miles downwind evacuate; outside 10 miles, there is no need to evacuate.
Two statements right out of the tape.
They don't tell me what to do, they don't know what to tell me.
l S:
They don't give you wind directions; where is it going, how wide is it?
I think they should say hurry up and get out.
M:
What do you think that meant, about the 5 rem child safety standard?
S:
That is the maximum recommended by the U.S. government, that l
you are permitted to absorb prior to, and a rem is remkin per minute or something.
That is a timed volume dosage, how bad it is.
An x-ray is so much per and all the rest.
A child, whatever the definition of child is, would receive at two miles 5 - 4 times the maximum dosage within a period of time, 4C0%.
At a certain other distance the farther you go from the site, the radiation is dissipated.
It is not a strong.
It loses power.
It is just not transmitted that far.
The further you go, of course, the better.
That's the reasons why they took 10-miles as a start.
Congenital liars.
All of them.
I left at 7 when I heard it.
S:
The thing that I noticed with this message that none of the others stated, it declared the emergency at 9:39, the release was at 12 o' clock.
Nine and a half hours later they declared an emergency.
S:
No not nine and a half.
S:
It occurred at 6:17, and then you had the - nine-thirty something was the general S:
At 9:39 in the morning, the last twelve o' clock was midnight.
S:
I would assume it was twelve noon.
So that's two and a half hours from 9:30 in the morning until noon is two and a half hours.
)
i l
i
_ S:
What time is this message going on?
S:
They don't state.
S:
That's the problem.
M:
It's shortly after -- it's about one.
S:
One o' clock in the afternoon.
You've got a seven hour scenario.
At 6:17 they started with this nonsense with the broadcast, they had a problem.
At 9:30 they had a minor release, and then at noon they had the major.
It is progressive at a rapid rate.
Within 6 hours6.944444e-5 days <br />0.00167 hours <br />9.920635e-6 weeks <br />2.283e-6 months <br /> you have gotten tremendous amount of change.
M:
I'd like to ask you at the end because you expressed some hesitance before about what you would do.
What did the message tell you to do individually?
S:
Well, it told me to evacuate.
I am still nervous about it, I do not know whether to evacuate or not.
Whether I will be able to.
M:
You are out of the zone?
S:
A littic bit.
The message said to call or listen for further messages.
I don't think there's a great deal of change in these.
I would still be hesitant as to whether I should leave or not, I
l l
1 l because I do not know how far I am going to get.
That radiation is going to be traveling with the wind and by the time you get to Nassau County, probably a good many who reside in Suffolk County will have had a good dosage of the radiation.
I S:
What if it's coming out of the west?
You have a good chance of getting out.
I think you have to guard against being too pessimistic.
S:
That's another thing I don't underttand.
It says people from 112 west don't have to move.
Yet these people that are down the road from the plant, they're heading into Nassau County.
Why are 1
they going in there?
Is there no place closer that can accept these people?
If 11 miles is safe, what's wrong with a reception center here?
This is outside the ten mile limit.
S:
They are telling people in Port Jeff to stay there, but I am going right by you.
S:
After Chernobyl, and last year's hurricane, I would definitely leave, no doubt about it.
S:
If you get past Port Jeff, you're safe, so why not stop?
M:
Would you believe that?
1 l
S:
I'm saying this is what they're telling you.
M:
Would you believe them?
S:
No, because if they're telling met to go west, young man, why are they telling those people to stay where they are?
I'd be finding relatives and friends that I have in Port Jeff and taking them with me.
l S:
They're trying to get the first people out.
The ones that are in imminent danger, and then they'll tell them to get out.
S:
Maybe the plan would work.
S:
But I think that would be one of the reasons you have saying, "OK, you wait."
Let these people get out because they're in the most imminent danger.
And then the other ones, an hour later, they'll evacuate.
M:
But would you wait?
S:
No.
I would have gone already.
S:
Let me just ask you something.
You are supposedly having l
LILCO employees directing all this.
They now know that there is a problem, are they going to stand there out in traffic and direct?
1
_ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ _ - - - _. No.
I don't think you would find them.
S:
How about that little school bus driver who's supposed to be going around picking up the invalids with' the 10-mile radius?
S:
We are not being realistic about any of this.
It is just not going to happen.
No one is going to get off this Island.
There is going to be.haos, people killing each other.
S:
There is going to be mob rule.
M:
LILCO says that if an accident really happened at Shoreham, that people would listen to instructions from LILCO and do what LILCO told them to do.
Do you think that LILCO is right about this?
S:
I think most people whether you are 10 miles within the radius or not, my first reaction to danger is to get away from the danger and I think that is also the way that most people on L.I. will react.
M:
LILCO says that in the cases of other kinds of disasters, natural disasters like hurricanes, tornados and floods, that people do not leave, they just stay.
And LILCO says that that is the same thing that'would happen here.
i l
S:
It is not; because with something like this it is fear of the unknown.
We have seen hurricanes come and go, earthquakes and everything else.
This is really unknown, we don't know anything about it.
And the distrust.
I don't think anyone trusts that company.
The whole public opinion has grown and once that first message comes across, I think there will be madness.
LILCO will not be able to reason with people's fears.
M:
Do you see any difference between the danger of a nuclear accident and the danger from the natural disasters?
S:
First of all, there are no long lasting effects to,the hurricane, or a flood, it is gone you pick up the pieces and ycu don't have radiation sticking around for how many years'.
i t
S:
You can see a hurricane by the tree blowing, you cannot see radiation.
Not unless there is an explosion.
You only see the particles of air coming down.
But radiation is invisible.
t S:
You are also talking about material things being destroyed here.
S:
Radiation will do the genetic damage that qan kill your kids and your kid's kids, rather than just you.
So there's a fear that way.
It's natural in every species to want to propagate and prolong.
Here, you're killing it.
I
f i,
M:
But what if say somebody from Brookhaven Lab, a nucl. ear scientist, carae on television when this was happening assurrir g that
,{
i
>l you could get reception, and said that there is r.o,r a l?$ ef
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radiation coming out and your fears are -
you don /:t have to be afraid?
/
')
S:
I would have to see his financial statement and what school he i
I went to.
Show me who he is.
S:
This is a guy who's working for Cyclotron.
Wh'at comes out of Shoreham and what comes out of a controlled environment are two different things.
It is not controlled.
A scientist a couple of years ago from Brookhaven came out with a statement that wa.9 pro-Shoreham, he put out a booklet that said "The Scientists'from 1,
Brookhaven Lab For the Opening of Shoreham."
j v
-l M:
Would you believe them?
Presumably if there wa.= an accident i
at Shoreham there would be some press coverage, I would imagine.
And there'd be a lot of reporters out here interviewing pecole and, trying to find out what was going on and people wouldn't be just,k s
P listening to these messages constantly, bu%.they would also be hearing the news, either on their rad,as or televisions.
S:
Nuclear scientists, first and foremost are physicists that 1
deal with theory, would you beligve some,of the physicists at Stony i
Brcok?
s Y
j-
.4 I
)
j
- b
1
" 53 -
4 M:
So you woaldn't believe them?
If there was this accident that you heard deschibed here, and they interviewed some scientist from Brookhaven and th,ey said pecple shouldn't panic, we urge everybody
' not to panic because there's not a lot of radiation coming out.
These peopleseere being interviewed while this was unravelling.
E:
After hearing all of this. I would believe the basic premise that pqoplo-should not panic but I would' find fault with his r;agentNg because there is not that much radiation.
People should hot } anic.
It's going to hurt people.
)
o S:
I wouldn't take the chance of believing him and him being wrong, being paid uff by somebody, to calm down the populace.
s e
M:
Because there dould probably be other scientists saying that it is dangerous.
Yod would have co evaluate, under that situation, u
~
what you would do.
But.LILCO says that people will listen to them.
. S.~
Knat did them more harm than Three Mile Island or Chernobyl was lest year's hurricane.
Public opinion went against them.
Peopler:who sat without electric for seven days, eight or nine, while their food rotted in their freezers.
That did them harm.
p s:
I think when a company has turmoil within, no matter what company, we disbelieve them.
I F
, S:
We know for a fact that the whole construction is incorrect.
I do not believe they have corrected anything, I don't see how they could.
M:
Would you take directions from LILCO employees if they were directing traffic?
S:
I do not think anybody would.
I think everyone would try to 1
find their own fastest way of getting out.
Do you know how slow the traffic would be.
I do not think the LILCO employees would l
stay around.
l l
If Shoreham is truly looking for a better way of evacuating S:
L.I., they should be lobbying in Albany right now to finish the service roads on the side of the Expressway around Shoreham that start and stop, to get an extra four lanes.
They have six now and in some places, ten, but you have to get on and off the Expressway.
There are just too many people.
S:
You mean to tell me that in 24 years they never thought of these things when they were building a nuclear plant on the eastern end of Long Island.
You are talking about money, labor.
There was
{
a lot of money made there.
L
~
S:
Before public opinion turned, they were going to put another one in Jamesport.
1
55 -
h:
Does anybody have any other ideas about any of these messages and what might happen if there were some accident at that plant?
S:
I always think about the long term effects.
The water supply, the animals, the grass, the potatoes, all of it.
I do not even know if it happened if I would ever come back.
S:
Even if you were able to would you be happy coming back.
I don't need to light up like a lightbulb.
I wouldn't.
S:
Look at Three Mile Island and that was a minor situation.
Chernobyl is going to be closed for 1500 years.
Something on that style.
M:
Do you think that what happened at Chernobyl could happen here at Shoreham?
S:
Yes I do.
I absolutely think so.
S:
Maybe not that serious but there could be a meltdown.
S:
Granted it was something we don't know about, the Russians don't let it out, but nuclear power plants are nuclear power j
plants.
Only certain styles have been proven to work.
And the style that it was was a very old style with a different method than is allowed in the U.S.
I i
9
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - - _ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ' - - ' - - ~
~ - - - -
S:
90% of the deaths that occur from an accident in Sho~reham are going to be avoidable if panic is avoided.
And its not going to be avoided.
Human nature.
M:
Given that you feel there may be more danger on the roads than from the radiation, why would you leave?
l S:
Because there is a chance.
S:
And the fear of the unknown.
We don't know much about it, but we know what can happen to us on the roads.
M:
Do you feel that the further away from it you got the safer you would be?
S:
You have a chance, you have to try, the wind might be in your l
l favor.
1 S:
You have to educate yourself.
S:
We don't want to think about it.
End of messages and tape.
l
.