ML20236U698
| ML20236U698 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 11/19/1987 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8712030302 | |
| Download: ML20236U698 (88) | |
Text
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I UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Briefing on EE0 Program i
I Location:
Washington, D. C.
'Date:
Thursday, November 19, 1987 i
Pages:
1 - 66 Ann Riley & Associates Court Reporters 1
1625 i Street, N.W., Suite 921 Washington, D.C. 20006 q,.
(202) 293-3950 l
8712030302 871119 PE$. 7**
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D I SC LA I MER 2
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O This Is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the 7
United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on 8
11/19/87 In the Commission's office at 1717 H Street, 9
'N.W.,
Washington, D.C.
The meeting was open to public 10 attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been 11 reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain
("
12 inaccuracies.
g 13 The transcript is intended solely for general 14 informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.108, it is 15 not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the 16 matters dis ussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript 17 do not neces.sarily reflect final determination or beliefs.
No 18 pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in j
19 any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement 20 or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may
)
21 authorire.
22 23 24 1
25
4 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 BRIEFING ON EEO PROGRAM 5
6 PUBLIC MEETING 7
8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9
Room 1130 10 1717 H Street, Northwest 11 Washington, D.C.
12 13 November 19, 1987 14 15
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The Commission met in open session, pursuacat to 16 notice, at 2:30 p.m., the Honorable LANDO W.
ZECH, Chairman of 17 the Commission, presiding.
18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
19 LANDO W.
- ZECH, Chairman of the Commission 20 THOMAS M. ROBERTS, Member of the Commission 21 FREDERICK M. BERNTHAL, Member of the Commission 22 KENNETH M.
ROGERS, Member of the Commission 23 24 25
(., _,)
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' STAFF AND PRESENTERS j-2 SEATED AT COMMISSION TABLE:
i 3
i l
4 W.
PARLER I
5 V.
STELLO 6
W. KERR l
7 P.
BIRD 8
R. TRIPATHI 9
L.
DEWEY l
10 C.
SAKENAS-11 J.
SOUDER 12.
S.
PETTIJOHN 13
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14 15
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16 17 18 19 20 l.
21 L
22 23 l
24 25
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2 4
1 P R 0 C E E D I-N G S 2
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Good afternoon, ladies and 3
gentlemen.
4 This afternoon we are going to hear a progress 5
report on the NRC Equal Employment Opportunity Program.
6 The NRC staff and our Employee Advisory Committees 7
meet with the Commission semi-annually to discuss EE0 8
matters.
Our last meeting on the subject was held on the 9
18th of February, 1987, 10 Commissioner Carr is unable to be with us today 11 as he is traveling under a commitment he had made prior to 12 scheduling this meeting.
~
As o'ur ap,ency continues to exoerience declining 13 14 levels of personnel resources, it.becomes an increasingly 15 urgent matter that we use and develop our human resources 16 wisely, keeping in mind both the best interests of the Agency 17 and of our people.
18 Our commitment to do so in a manner that provides 19 employees an equal opportunity to develop individual skills 20 and capabilities in accomplishing the Agency's mission is 21 embodied in our consolidated EE0 program plan and in our 22 five-year plan.
What remains is to find and implement the l
23 best means to accomplish these goals.
I 24 The challenge before us is to maintain and improve 25 upon the progress we have made in the past on our EE0 4,
3 1
performance.
Careful planning, scrupulous implementation 2
and instructive cooperation will take us far down that road.
3 Our best efforts will be necessary to meet this challenge 4
and to keep our commitment to our women, our minority and 5
our older employees.
6 Do any of my fellow commissioners have any openine 7
remarks to make before we begin?
8 (No response.)
9 If not, Mr. Stello, would you begin, olense?
10 MR. STELLO:
Thank you, Mr. Chairnan 11 I will give you a very brief summary of some things 12 that I think are important to note and then very quickly 13 will turn to Mr. Kerr and Bird for presentations on members 14 of the various committees.
15 As you are aware, the Agency. has been in a period 16 where we are reducing our overall number of emDlovees.
This 17 creates more of a challenge to enhance EF0 crograms.while 18 you are reducing Agency resources.
I think in liFht of that 19 background, I am satisfied that we in the past year have done 20 a fairly good job, not one that I would succest we oucht to 21 be content with, but one with which I am satisfied.
22 I am especially satisfied that durine. the reorgani-I 23 zation there was considerable awareness and discussion during 24 that period, as you oersonally are aware, Mr. Chairman, to
/
25 be as mindful as we could to use that opportunity to do what
4 I
we can.
1, 2
I will point out one particular area that I looked 3
very hard at, which was in generating more visible positions s
4 which is an issue, vou will remember, the last time we 5
talked about this for people in the minority programs and 6
women, and have done so, and I think we need to do more of 7
that because that provides opportunity for exposure and,-
8 hence, opportunity for advancement'.
i 9
So we need to concentrate more and more in this 10 area, and we will, and I think that that will make 11 considerable progress.
12 We clearly, as last year and again this year, need 13 to be inventive about finding more ways to bring in more 14 women in the SES.
I think since the last time we briefed to 15 this time, I think we have one additional woman that we have 16 hired in the SES in the past year.
Part of doing that will 17 mea.n getting more women in minorities in the Grades 13 to 19 18 which are where you look for people noving up in the svstem, 19 finding a way to do that.
20 The rotational assignments I have alreadv noted, l
21 I think, again, a way in which to create an opportunity for I
l 22 advancement of those who clearly can meet the standards and 23 move into positions of management.
24 Another area that I think we need to focus real R.)
25 hard on now as the Agency is changine its mission and
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5 1
operational is the area of being mindful of training, the 2
allocation of our training resources as our mission changes, 3
so that we can provide opportunities for employees who are 1
4 in positions where we no longer have demands for narticular 1
5 skills and find ways in which to be able to keep them within 3
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1 6
the Agency and doing other work, j
i 7
The bottom line is that I don't think we ever can 8
get to the point where we ought to relax and be comnlacent 9
about enhancing our EE0 posture.
I think we are doinF a 10 respectable job and it will need continued emphasis.
I am 11 committed and expect in the next year to continue to give 12 it that emphasis.
13 With that, let me ask Mr. Kerr to start and give 14 you a progress report and we will go from there.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
16 Proceed.
17 MR. KERR:
Mr. Chairman, I.would like to introduce 18 the Advisory Committee persons at the head table.
To mv 19 far right it Jona Souder, who is the chairperson of the 20 Labor-Management EED Advisory Committee.
Ne xt to her is 21 Cheryl Sakenas, f rom the Federal Women's Program Advisorv 22 Committee.
To my lef t we have Lee Dewey from the Committee 23 on Age Discrimination, and to his left we have Raj Tricathi 24 from the Affirmative Action Advisory Committee.
Sam Petti-k./
25 john, who is not on the original agenda, has decided to icin i
6 4
1 us and will make comments today.
2 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
3 MR. KERR:
As always, it is a cleasure to come 4
down to talk to you about the EE0 crogram.
As Vic has 5
mentioned, even in the face of severe FTE limitations and 6
a decreasing total work force, as you can see on page 2 at
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7 the far right, we have still been able to hold our own in 8
the percentage of women on board and have made a one cercent 9
incre ase in minorities, from 16.8 to 17.8 Dercent.
10 Looking at oage 3, the same progression is true 11 with GG-11 and above, where there was an increase in per-12 centage of both minorities and women from fiscal year 1986 13 to fiscal year 1987.
This is further i lustrated by oages 14 4 and 5, which show women and ninority trend data.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Wait a minute. I'm on nage 3.
16 MR..KERR:
On page 3 to the far right you will 17
,see 18 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Those numbers went down, 19 MR. KERR:
Yes, but the percentages went un.
20 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Okay.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
You didn't say that, though.
22 MR. KERR:
I said increase in percentace,
23 CFAIRMAN ZECH:
Okay.
W e l,1, the gross numbers 24 went down.
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25 MR. KERR:
Absolutely.
7 I
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And the percentage went up.
2 All right.
We would like them both to go up, wouldn't we?
MR. KERR:
We would like to.
4 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Go ahead.
5 MR. KERR:
On pages 4 and 5, you see minority 6
trend data, women and minority trend data for Grades 13 through 18 for the same Deriod.
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8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL.
Just a second.
MR. KERR:
Yes?
10 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
How come one of these is 11 GG-11 and above, and then we have GG-13 and above on the 12 table excluding SES?
It seems like that makes it hard to 13 cros s-corre lat e, doesn't it?
I4 MR. KERR:
Generally when we speak of those in the 15 profe ssional cate gory, we speak of 11 and above.
However,.
16 we determined that 13 and above was better -- since we have 17 been asked a number of tines how we look at 13 and above, we 18 decided to make a separate chart recognizing 13 through 18.
19 This has been asked at the previous meetings I have been at, 20 so we decided to do it both ways.
21 MR. STELLO:
The re is a very sDecial reason for 22 that, as was already pointed out.
One of the things that we 23 need to shoot for is having more women and minorities in 24 those grades, which would then allow you to improve the 25 overall achievements in the SES categories since that is where f
t 8
e 1
they come.from.
2 COMM1SSIONER BERNTHAL:
I'm not taking issue with 3
the 13 and above, which I think is indeed one of our 4
problems, but it might be useful to orovide a similar visual 5
display of that so we get a little better idea of how we are 6
doing there.
7 MR. KERR: 'Okay.
That can be done.
8 The percentage of women in these grades went from 9
11.1 to 11. 5 pe rcent, and on page 5, minorities from 11.3 10 to 11.9 percent.
This period obviously covers the time of 11 the reorganization, but it is difficult to determine how many 12 changes are directly related to the reorganization or would 13 have taken place anyway without the reorganization without 14 tracking each individual Dromotion.
15 Even. so, this latter information is most important 16 to us now in that the Equal Emnleyment Oncortunity Commission 17 is requiring that agencies no longer, focus just on total 18 agency mumbers to show success or failure of their affirmative 19 action program.
What is of equal inportance is the proRress 20 minorities and women are making in our respective acencies.
21 This is best illustrated by any changes in the 22 average grade.
The average grade for women in this agencv 23 has gone up in the one-year time frame to 9.1 as compared to 24 8.9 a year ago.
s.s 25 Me ' have a number of programs which we hone will
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CHAI N N ZECH:
Wait a minute.
What are we looking 3
at now?
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We don't have a chart tt show the e
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average grades.
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CHAIRMAN ZECH:
You are just talking to us now.
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MR. KERR:
Yes.
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CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Say that again, then?
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g MR. KERR:
Ne have a number of crocrams wnich we 10 hope will - - oh, the average grade you are re. erring tc, Mr.
33
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Chairman?
Ig CHAIRMAN 7ECH:
Yes.
What was the average grade?
j 13 MR.
J.< ERR:
The ave rage grade for wo,en is 9 versus 34 8.9' a year alqo., so it went up slightly.
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O en3 e average. Woman 16 employed in our agency is a Grade 91 g
MR. KERR:
Yes.
,g CHAI.RMAN ZECH:
9.0?
g 20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
Go ahead.
21 3
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p MR. KERR:
We have a number of nrograms which we 6
22 h Pe w.ill continue to help women and minorities achieve 23 y
l higher grades and more re scon sible nosition s.
Tuo of these 24
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Progrems are the Women's Executive Leadershio Program and 25 l
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the Executive Potential),.h gram for mid-leve?. enclovees.
You i
s y-5 can see the accomplishments of these on cage 6.
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CHAIRMAN bCh:
You are just~/ going to give us this 5
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4 year and last yearp Is that what you are doing?
We are W
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5 just comparing two years?
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MR. KERR:
Yes, because tilo generally is an update
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7 of @at happened during that time frame, '86 through
'86.
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Fine,butl,what if you showed us
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9 the 74ctun Lack through 19 80 ?
Wha + would it show in 1980?
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MR. KERR:
I' don't believe these crocrams were t[.
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11 in existence at that time.
In fact, I am sure they weren't.
12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Why not?.'
13 MR. KERR:
Can you respond to that, Paul?
14 MR. BIRD:
Yes.
They are OPM-sponsored nrotrams,
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'[c 15 and I believe they were out. in place in 198t'-85.
I am not s
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16 sure of the exact date.
But thev Xre relatively new
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programs.
3 18 CHAIRMAN ZECH: What does that mean?
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MRJ BIRD: They, are soonsdred. government vide
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20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Whar programs;
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21 MR. BIRD:
The Women's Exe cutive Leadershiu Program c'
22 and the Executive Potential --
23:
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
He just told rie that the a ve rage 24 woman in our agency is a 9.1.
I hant the number for 19 80.
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25 MR. STELLO:
Do you have the average grade for
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1980?
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. MR. KERR:
No, I don't have that.
3 MR. STELLO:
We don't have it with us, We can get 4
it for you.
5 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
How about 1970?
6 MR. STELLO:
We don't have.that one, I'm sure.
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
In othe r words, you are iust 7
8 showing us kind of a snapshot.
'.'ou are showing us this year, 9
last year.
It is very~bseful, but I would like 10 MR. STELLO:
We will get it for you.
11 MR. KERR:
Trend data.
Yes, we can do that.
12 CHAIRMAN ZECH.:
'Jhen are you going to show us 13 other agencies, too, 111 the, g vernme nt ?
14 MR. KERR:
For av'erage grade?
15 CHAIRMAN ZEC,H:
Kind of how we are doing in 16 accordance with other agencies.
17 MR. S'2E LLO :
We have a comparison with respect to 18 other agencies for women and minorities at the SES level only 19 with us=.
20 MR. KERR:
And we will show that in a few moments.
1 21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Okay.
We l ?, - le t me iust make a 22 general point.
I agree with Mr. Berninal that the standing 1
23 charts are kind of useful and they show a trend.
At least 24 you took that one back to 1977 on page 3.
It does help to
...)
25 see the trend, Of course, we focus on what hacoened this
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1 year and last year, but it. does he,1p to show what' has taken 2
place, I think.
So ma'ybe you can do that for next time,
3 anyway.
4 MR. KERR:
I certainly will.
1 5
i COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I think the problem is --
l 6
well, it is hard to tell, but my sense is that if you plotted 7
the senior level, 13 and above position's, it wouldn' t look
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8 quite so good.
Is that true?
Progrec s made in the last 9
few years of number of women and minorities in 13 and above.
10 MR. BIRD:
I think in 13 and above it would look 11 good in the past two or three years.
There has been some 12 progress that I will mention when it comes to my part.
I COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
A 1 right.
I will wait
' 4 to,,see what you have to say.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Just show us just a lit tle bit, 16 broader scale to loox at, and then you can make your ooint 17 on the last year or two if that is what you want t o do, and 18 we will focus on that, too.
I think it would be useful.
19 Go ahead.
20 MR. KERR:
We also have the Uoward Mobility Program.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
What Dane are we on now?
22 MR. KERR:
We don't have a page on that.
23 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right 24 MR. KERR:
The SES Candidate De ve lopme n t Program,
_e 25 and a newly-planneo notational Process that, as Paul s
13 1
indicated, we will get into some discussion of that in a I
3 l(
few minutes 2
COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Excuse me.
Before you 3
l turn from page 6, could vou just exclain what the dif fe re nce s 4
are between the Women's Executive Leadership Program and 5
the Executive Potential Program?
6 MR. KERR:
Paul.
7 MR. BIRD:
Yes, I can speak to that.
They are 8
structured quite differently.
The Executive Potential g
Program for mid-level managers is basically a program where o
someone remains in the job that they are currently in but g
participates for, I think it is, six to eight weeks in some 12 r tational type assignments elsewhere in the organization.
13 That particular one is aimed at giving them, hocef tilly, g
some supervisory and managerial insights and experience, in-15 v 3 ves some shadow as signmen ts and thines of that nature.
16 The Women's Executive Leadership Program is more 37 f a formal, year-long effort to enhance the managerial 18 abilities for women, but it would require someone to be out 39 f the current job for a longer period of time, and I do 20 have some information with me that I could cass to you on g
this program to describ'e it in detail.
CHAIRMAN ZECH: Proceed.
23 MR. KERR:
Regarding the Agency's hiring goals, 24 we have not established them vet for this fiscal year.
25
14 1
Because of reorganization, we arc still trying to get a 2
fix on anticipated vacancies to De filled throughout the year.
3 We hope to have this done and the new goals in place by 4
February.
But even without goals, we encourage that the 5
Agency 's under-representation be recognized when and if any 6
hiring does take place.
This is an area my office will 7
continue to monitor as we do our periodic reviews of the other 8
offices.
9 Regarding the hiring results for fiscal year 1987, 10 as you can see on page 7, as in the past we seem to have 11 greater success in the regions as compared to headquarters, 12 where we'have more competition for the tyoe jobs we are try-13 ing to fill.
14 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
You say you have gre ater 15 success in the regions?
16 MR. KERR:
In the cast we have always had a little 17 bit better success in the region than we have in headquarters, 18 and I believe it is because of the competition in the Wash-19 ington Metro area for the type positions we are trying to 20 fill.
21 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
So if you made similar 22 break downs for the regional offices, you think it would 23 look better?
Is that what you are saying?
24 MR. KERR:
It always has.
25 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Is that true of minorities
15 i
1 as a separate group from women?
(
2 MR. KERR: Well, it's across the board generally, 3
but essentially it has been across the board but they have 4
had more success than we have had.
5 MR, STELLO:
Let me give you an example.
Hispanic i
6 males in Region 4, which is the Dallas-Fort Worth area, 7
those goals are much easier to meet there than here in 8
9 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Let's go ahead.
10 MR. KERR:
We had a significant increase in 11 discrimination complaints last year.
We gained 17 complaints 12 during the fiscal year.
The reasons for ccmplaints seem to 13 go in cycles.
A few years ago the comolaints were essen-14 tially based on race.
Then af ter that they were based upon 15 sex, a,nd now we are ge'tting a number of complaints based 16 upon alleged age discrimination.
17 In fact, of the 17 increase last year, 12 were 18 based upon age.
Now, this isn't really as bad as it first 29 appears because seven of the complaints were filed by two i
1 20 individuals, e,ach of,which must be handled as a new 21 complaint, although.he circumstances were identica): that 22 is, failure to be selected for a higher nosition.
23 The comolaints are cu.rrently beine inves tigated 24 by a firm,.and they will present us with the results fairly b
.25 soon and then we will continue on with the administrative
16 4
1 processing of the complaints.
2 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
vmo is investigating them?
3 MR. KERR:
We contract out all of our complaints 4
ror investigation, and a firm is doing it now for us, 5
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Who did you say?
6 MR. KERR:
I didn't give the name of the firm.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Oh, I thought you did.
8 MR. KERR:
No, I didn't.
9 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right.
They are being investi-10 gated.
None of them have been completed yet?
11 MR. KERR:
No.
They are all being looked at as a-12
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pa ck age.
13 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I see.
All right.
14
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MR. KERR:
As a whole, the EE0 orogram continues to 15 have positive results.
The biggest hurdle to overcome, as 16 Vic has mentioned, is a shortage of women and minorities in 17 upner grades.
18 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Excuse me.
How many total complaints 4
19 did we have last year?
'!h a t can we compare this with ?
I 20 My point is --
21 MR. KERR:
As compared to other Federal agencies of l
22 sinilar size.
We can do that.
23 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
No, compare d to us.
Just comoared 24 to us.
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25 MR. KERR:
I know what you are saying, Mr, Cha i rma n.
17 l
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-1 Ed, do we have that?
About seven.
1,-
l 2
THE CHAIRMAN:
But all I am saying is in these 3
charts it helps to see a trend.
4 MR. KEPR:
I understand.
5 THE CHAIRMAN:
We can see better.
And if you have l
6 a peak, then you explain why you think it's a peak, and it 7
just flows better, I think.
8 MR. KERR:
In the future, that's what you will 9
get.
10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thanks very much.
l 11 MR. KERR:
As I indicated and as Vic indicated, 12 our biggest hurdles to overcome is the shortage of women i
13 and minorities in unner grades in management positions.
14 particularly women in the SES.
Page 9 shows how we compare 15 to other agencies wi th te chnical. missions.
We recognize 16 that we have a oroblem, as Mr. Stello is indicated, and I 17 hope at our next EE0 briefing we will be able to presen.
i 18 more positive results in getting more women into the SES.
19 With that, I will lead into Paul Bird.
20 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
May I just ask a questio.n?
21 MR. KERR:
Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
How many emplovees are the re 23 at DOE?
l 24 MR. KERR:
Total emnlovees?
25 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Yes.
l
18
+
1 MR. YERR:
We will get that for you in iust a 2
second.
3 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I won 1.d be curious to know, 4
of all these other acencies, what the total employment is.
5 MR. KERR:
Okay.
6 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
You can get the n umbe r 7
but it's not easy.
Since they give Dercent in the total, I
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8 guess in principle you can go backwards, but I agree.
9 The other thing that it seems to me may be useful, l
10 and we may be coming to that, maybe, with Paul Bird 's 11 comments, would be to break down the technical from the non-12 technical.
I realize that that, in a sense, goes against 13 the grain of comparing us with certain other agencies that 14 tend to be te chnic511y incline d, but nevertheless, I think 15 if we would separate our technical from non-technical women 16 and minorities within our acency compared to o ther agencies 17 that would also be of interest be ca u se aven though thev.mav.
18 not be engineers or scientists,'it may well be that women 19 and minorities somehow are being fit into these other roles i
20 in othe r agencies, maybe be cause they are more attentive.
21 I noticed EPA especially seems to be havinF great l
22 success with recruiting women.
23 MR. STELLO:
What I think is interesting with 24 respect to minorities is I think we are better than all the 25 other agencies.
With resnect to women, I cuess EPA or NASA l
1 t
I
19' 1
is the only a,gency that has a lower percentage than we do.
2 I asked the same question you did, if there is a way to try 3
to understand or are there particular disciplines that 4
COMMISSIONER BERMTHAL:
That they have found that 5
we haven't.
6 MR. STELLO:
Are there particular disciplines in 7
which there are a lot more college graduates, particular 8
disciplines in which there are women which other women have 9
a greater need for than we do.
10 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Ye s, or are there 11 disciplines that they have identified where maybe we have 12 overlooked the availability of women and minorities.
13 MR. STELLO:
Another way to ask the question.
14 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Yes, exactly.
15 MR. BIRD:
I want to speak to four items.
Number 1
16 one is the plans that we are currently continuing tv de ve loo 17 for rotational assignments.
We.think this is a very imoortant 18 feature of progress in the Agency for everyone, but carticu-19 1arly for minorities and women to be given the opportunity to 20 move between positions.
21 We are looking at this more at this point as a 22 process rather than a formal program.
We have a number of 23 rot,ational programs in place that identify certain numbers 24 of positions that would be filled each year.
However, what
(;
25 we are looking at now is a p rocess in which we can get
[
u__ -
)
20 I
mobility started throughout the Agency where everyone would 2
have an opportunity to exDress an interest in rotational 3
assignments and be considered for such assignments, a process 4
in which managers and supervisors would have some input into 5
the decision-making and would, in fact, identify peoole and 6
put their names forward when they think they would be 7
further developed by such assignments.
8 We are doing quite a bit of work on this.
We have 9
a pap'er now that is circulating to office directors that 10 outlines this process, and we are looking for additional 11 input on it.
I think it is a very important e ffort for the 12 future of this agency.
l l
13 I wanted to speak for a moment about how we have 14 done with women and minorities compared to last year,, and I 15 will just run this down.
As far as SES goes, we have now 16 two more minorities in the SES than we did at the time of this 17 brie fing last year.
We have one additional woman in SES 18 since this time last year.
19 At Grade 15 we have six more women, and at Grade 20 14 we have 14 more women than we did --
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Are we looking at a chart now or 22 not?
23 MR. BIRD: No, I' m j ust reading of f mv notes.
I 24 CHAIR'AN ZECH:
Okay.
(%)
25 MR. BIRD:
With minorities, the re are siy more
21 I
than last year at Grade 15, one more at 14, and four 2
additional minorities at Grade 13.
Women at Grade 13 has 3
declined since last year as some of these women have moved 4
up, but the progress is in the right dire ction, in my 5
opinion, and I hope that this orogress continues for women i
6 and minorities.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Don't go to California.
You catch 8
cold out there.
Two and a half days, and I don't know if I'm 9
going to make it or not.
10
( Laughte r. )
I 11 MR. BIRD:
I had planned to be at that ANS confer-12 ence because we were doing some recruitin'g there, but looking 13 at you, I'm glad I didn't go.
14 (Laughter.)
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I feel better than I look.
I don't 16 quite feel that bad.
Go ahead.
17 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I thought he looked about i
18 the same as he always does.
19 (Laughter.)
20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Probablv.
21 MR. BIRD:
I wanted to mention the dif ficulty we are 22 continuing to have in retaining and attracting s e c re t arie s.
23 This is a problem throughout the Agency, and particularly in l
24 the Washington Metropoli tan Area.
All the agencies are
- (9 l
25 experiencing this problem, as well as the Drivate sector, 1
9 I
l 22 I
whe re I understand that the average turnover now for 2
secre taries is abou't every nine months.
They are moving 'out 3
onward and uoward.
Many of these oeople in this particular 4
field are moving into data processing and ADP occupations and 5
away from the straight secretarial occupations.
We are 6
recruiting very heavily for secretaries.
I certainly would 7
encourage anyone who can steer us in any direction or toward 8
any sources for this limited resource ; we would certainly 9
appreciate the input on that.
10 But it is a problem.
We are trying to at least 11 bring in as many secretaries as we are losing, but I think 12 this will continue to be a problem for the next y. ear or so, 13 at least, until that particular work force -can ba stabilized 14 and we, move clearly into a different dire ction.
15 We are trying to do some things internally in that 16 a re a, too, to increase the pay and incentives for the 17 Secretaries that we have to stay with us rather than movine 18 off to the private law firms and other nrivate sector 19 organizations in town that are paying them quite handily now 20 to make that movement.
21 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Can I ask you a qustion?
22 MR. BIRD:
Yes.
23 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Do vou have any male 24 se c re tarie s ?
b 25 MR. BIRD:
We are not sure whether we still do.
23 1
I know we have had in the past, yes, and I believe we still g
2 do.
3 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Are you looking at that 4
as a possible way to go?
5 MR. BIPD:
We certainly would not exclude males 6
from that population.
CONMISSIONERROBERTS:
I know.
I mean you can 7
8 always accept them if they show, but have you thought about 9
that as a possible place to look actively to re cruit?
10 MR. BIRD:
We have not pinpointed that particular1v.
11 MR. STELLO:
Our recruitment are intense for 12 secretaries.
Anywhere we can get them.
The re is a real 13 shortage that seems like it is going to imorove.
You 14 recognize the gove rnme nt just changed the classifications for 15 secretaries in the Washington area because of the difficulty 16 that the Federal Government has in hiring them, and it apoears 17 that what has happened is when the Federal Government raised 18 salary scales, industry just went right ahead and raised 19 them higier, and we are back to where we were.
20 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Sometimes the way to crack 21 something it to take a new tack, and if you are just ridi ng 22 along with it, you are going to exoerience the same phenomenon 23 you have always experienced, and maybe the re is a little way 24 to crack into that by some mechanism.
I don't have an answer,
%)
25 but I know if you can open up a new pool, that sometimes gan i
4
(
}
24 a
1 be very helpful.
~
2 MR. BIRD:
I think you are d ght, and certainly 1
3 some further discussion on this woule' ie appropriate.
We l
4 would entertain any ideas that you wou2d have.
We tend to 5
be moving farther and farther out.the Rockville Pike.
We 6
are recruiting now on the edge of Pennsylvania, and some 7
people from that area are coming to work, and we will 8
probably end up going up as far as Wilkes Barre and up in 9
that area to try to recruit and have the people re locate, but 10 that gets pretty difficult at those Day levels.
11 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I think the coint is a very 12 good one, even not considering another element that is 13 occurring, and th&t is in the definition of what a secretarv 14 is any more.
The traditional secretary, I guess, thank God, 15 is pretty much gone.
These people more and more tend to be 16 administrative assistants.
The amount of skills with 17 re spe ct to computer technology particularly that is req uired 18 of someone to be successful in this area is increasing ve ry 19 rapidly, and all of that, it would seem to me, first would 20 justify, be cause of the labor savinF, would justify an increase 21 in grade of a number of these positions, and secondly, of 22 course, would justify, as you sav, looking to new areas to 23 find people t6 fill them.
24 MR. BIRD:
We are looking at this right ncw.
In V
25 fact, there are about 300 people in the work force who we are
25 6
1 looking at very carefully, considering whether we would raise 2
the grades at this particular time.
The cost of that is not 3
prohibitive but it is still there.
It would be around 4
$270,000.00, $300,000.00 as a one-time cost of payroll, but 5'
we are looking at that.
6 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Is there -- and this is 7
just for my own curiosity.
Is there a general program policy 8
in the Federal Government to attempt to ungrade gene rally 9
what used to be the secretarial positions in view of the new 10 skills and talents required for many of them?
11 MR. BIRD:
People at OPM now, the Office of 12 Personne1' Management, are beginning to look at that and are
(
13 starting to address it.
I think they should have addressed 14 this three or four years ago --
15 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I agree.
16 MR. BIRD:
-- but they are just now beginning to 17 get into it.
They are a little bit behind the curve, if you 1
i 18 ask me.
19 The last item that I would like.to mention is that 20 despite the fact that we are in a period of declininF I
21 re sources and are encouraging people not to recruit from i
d
.22 outside the Agency now, to let attrition get us down to the l
23 budget level that we are seeking, we are still continuing to 24 run a recruitment program and visit campuses and iob fairs (s/
25 and things of that nature, and we would hope to maintain the
26
~
a I
continuity of those recruitment contacts because they are 2
so important in preparing to recruit in the future.
We 3
probably will later this vear have some opportunities to i
4 re cruit from the outside.
5 That's all I have.
6 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Can I ask one more question?
7 I want to go back to page 9 once mo re, to the SES ranks and 8
focus on gender again.
We seem to be struggling upward in 9
minorities and doing as well as comparable agencies, or as 10 badly, depending on your coint of view, I guess.
Even granted 11 the statistics of small numbers -- and the statistics of 12 women are statistics of even smaller numbers, I notice 13 why are we having so much difficulty there ?
We really have 14 not gone very far with women in the SES ranks.
If I look up 15 on top of page 9, we really seem to be
'truggling, even in s
16 absolute numbers.
17 The re seems to be a con fe re nce goinn on.
18 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Yes.
Who wants to answer that?
19 (Laughter.;
20 MR. BIRD:
Basically, I think, what has occurred with 21 the reorganization where we had additional SES positions to 22 be filled, that the pool of applicants who turned out to 23 apply for those jobs was very heavily oriented toward whi te I
24 males, although we did make some progres s with minori tie s.
f l \\.J 25 The pool didn't have as many women in it as I would have
27
)
1 liked.
In fact, if you looked at all the anplicants -- and I
/
2 don' t have the numbe r right in front of me, but it was 200 3
and some, and I don't remember exactly, but out of that 4
pool there were only ten women applicants for those jobs in 5
the SES as we advertised them.
That is a small population to 6
draw from, and I would very much like to have more Decole in 7
the pool.
8 As you see this progression to 14 and 15, 9
certainly the pool of app'.icants will get bigge r.
The rein 10 lies the ultimate solution.
As we continue to bring women 11 and minorities up to those levels, they will fall into the 12 pool.
As we get these rotational assignments to work, they
'will have the broad experience that we are looking for when 13 14 we fill these jobs and will be very viable applicants.
15 MR. STELLO:
Le t me. try two ocints.
I don't feel 16 the least bit hesitant about making a point when you compare 17 where we are With re spect to minorities in the SES with respec t 18 to other Federal agencies.
tVe are clearly better than anybody i
19 else.
I'm not saying we ought to be satisfied, but we clearly 20 are.
So we are doing something right the re.
21 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Well, it's small numbers, 22 Vic.
We are about the came, I think.
You are dealing with 23 a difference of one or two.
But, you know, I don't want to 24 take issue with what you have said, but we are in the b alloa rk
(..)
25 with e ve rybody else, I think, is the corre ct statement.
l 4
28 4
1 MR. STELLO:
The numbers I have got in front of
.~.
L 2
me say we are better than anybody else.
3-COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
But the things that are 4
really low, you are talking about square root of 7 and square 5
root of 2.
Now, those are small numbers, okay?
6 MR. STELLO:
With respect to women we are not doing 7
as well.
8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Yes, I agree.
9 MR. STELLO:
And I don't really know that I know 10 the answer.
Maybe you hit upon it by looking at other 11 agencies having certain disciplines where they are getting 12 in the college graduates or various applications where women 18 are in SES such that they are finding the way to do this that 14 is achieving a result a better than we are, and that is what 15 we have got to look to to try to Fet some ans we rs.
16 But the real' answe r at the moment is clearly, if 17 you look at the pool of women that you could draw on to nut 18 into the SES, it isn't really that large, and then you really l
19 have got to expand that pool so that when we come here in 20 future years, we at least have a larger pool to draw from, 21 and then I think we can star' to make progre s s.
22 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Could we have, for examnle, Mr.
23 Kerr and Mr. Bird go to EPA and find out how they do as well !
24 as they did?
}O 25 MR. STELLO:
We will.
29 1.
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And maybe go to FERC, too, It looks 2
like they did fairly well, percentage-wise, anyway.
But pick 3
out some that look like they have done quite well and go talk 4
to them.
5 MR. STELLO:
We will.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
See if they are doing something we 7
are not doing.
8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
The one that really stands 9
out is EPA, and maybe they have a discipline over there that 10 we simply don' t have whe re the pool is suitable.
11 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
We could find out.
12 MR. BIRD: I used 'to work at EPA, and I can tell 13 you that there are some soft s'cienc'e occupations over there 14 that are heavily populated by women, and there are more 15 available coming out of college in those occupations.
They 16 are not engineers: they are more science oriented.
17 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Well, let's go talk to them and 18 find out, anyway, and see if it is applicable to us.
19 MR. STELLO:
We will.
20 CHAIRMAN ZFCH:
Okay.
Le t's procee d.
21 MR. KERR:
We are going to start with the 22 advisory committees now, starting first of all with the AAAC.
23 MS. TRIPATHI:
Thank you, Bill.
24 Good af ternoon.
v 25 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Good afternoon.
i i
)
30 1
MS. TRIPATHI:
The Af firmative Action Advisory
,s 2
Committee appreciates this opportunity to meet with the 3
Commission and share our observations and concerns re gardin g 4
the current situation in the NRC.
5 You have already seen the content of the staff 6
requirement memo issued af ter our last meeting with the 7
Commission, Mr. Chairman.
It showed that the Commission 8
was responsive to the views of the EE0 conmittees.
9 then we have experienced a major. reorganizati6n, and perhaps 10 more changes will be imoosed on us by the proposed limitations 11 in government spending that relate to EE0 concerns which 12 may arise about these changes.
13 We have had an opportunity to observe ' he e f fe ct t
14 of the reorganization in terms 6f summary statistics comniled 15 by Bill Kerr's staff.
You had an opportunity to look at 16 some of those Vu-graphs.
Based on this data, it aDoears that 17 there may have been little or perhaps no effect pn minorities 18 and women.
I 19 The fact th'at no significant changes occurred 20 with re spect to minorities and women might be viewed as a
^
21 positive attribute, but we were a bit disappointed that the 22 reorganization was not utilized as an opportunity for 23 improvements.
24 Since the last Commission meeting, one of the accom-Lj 25 plishments of AAAC has been the preliminary analysis of I
31 i
e 1
19 86 performance appraisal data.. Our initial examination has l'
i 2
indicated that a significantly lower percentane of "outstsidng" 1
I 3
ratings have been awarded to black employees in all grade 4
levels as compared to whites.
Even thouFh our efforts are 5
not yet complete, we have shared this observa tion with Bill l
6 Kerr's office as soon as it became apo are n t.
7 I am not sure, Mr. Chairman and the Commissioners, 8
if you-all have a copy of this memo, so I will take the 9
liberty of passing this out.
10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
1 11 MS. TRIPATHI:
You will see a maior breakdown in 12 Grades 3 through 8, 9 through 12, and then 13 through 15.
13 Unfortunately, we didn't have sufficient data concerning 14 Hispanics in Grades 3 through 8 and 9 through 12.
As you 15 can see, there have been significantly lower percentages of 16 blacks getting " outstanding" ratings as compared to their 17' white counterparts.
18 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I'm sorry.
What is OEF?
19 MS. TRIPATHI:
"0" is outstanding, "E"
is excellent, 20 "F" is fully successful, and then --
21 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I'm sorry.
22 MS. TRIPATHI:
Recently we have also joined the 23 other EE0 committees in requesting to the EDO a study on 24 bumping and retreat rights, and we look forward to initiation
%)
25 of a feasbility dtudy in this direction and look forward to
'32 receiving positive results.
3 I
On several occasions in the last year, the use of 2
the rotational program has been mentioned to orovide 3
previously unavailable dive rse training opportunities to the 4
staff.
In this regard, recently we received a memo from 5
Paul Bird's office introducing the policy on rotational 6
7 programs, and right now it is being circulated for comments and input from the of fice and regional managers.
8 We would like to see information regarding g
implementation, regarding the final policy and implementation 10 33 of this program, and also who has participated in this 12 Program so far, how it has benefited them, whether it has,'
in f ct, helped redress any inequalities.
We would like to 13 see this as a positive move on the Dart of the NRC staff to 34 help diversity of exDertise amonF the professionals.
15 We belie ve that compilation of data regarding the 16 e effectiveness of this program and any de ficiencies that need 37 to be corrected would be beneficial.
Also, wider oublicity 18 is needed regarding the program.
Many profe ssionals in the 39 NRC are not even aware of this program, that there is such an 20 idea in existence, and we believe tha t the wider publicity 21 w uld help potential candidates so they can present the mse lve s 22 f r consideration.
In order to address relevant EE0 concerns,
-23 f course, development of a formal procedure is highly 24 V
recommended.
25 I
se
33 t
l 1
Finally, in promoting the affirmative action 2
to develop 'the full potential of the NRC emoloyees, we regard 3
development and training resources as key components.
Since 4
we are facing a situation where the best we can hope for is 5
probably to maintain the current staffing levels, the 6
development of diversity of skills among all employes is 7
v'itally important to the Agency.
~
8 The training resources must be use d with a sensi-9 tivity to and appreciation for EE0 concerns.
10 If you have any questions, I will be glad to 11 an s we r.
- 12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
13 Why don't we proceed with the others and then we 14 will come back if we have questions.
We may.
15 MR. KERR:
We will come back to you in a mcment, 16 Sam.
17 MR. DD4N: Chairman 7ech, Mr. Commi s sione rs, I am 18 Lee Dewey representing the Age Discrimination Advisory 19 Committee.
Today you have heard a number of equal emoloyment 20 opportunity programs, and you have been told about what this 21 agency is doing'to further these goals.
These are commendable 22 goals and we appre ciate consideration that you are givina to 1
23
.them.
'24 I might add that this is our impression: that this
\\/
25 agency is making a conscientious effort for improvement in l
34 1
many EE0 areas.
- g.,
f 2
As you will note from what has been said this 3
af te rnoon, the programs discussed today have been procented 4
mainly in terms of their impact on women and minorities.
5 This analysis is most appropriate since in the past these 6
groups have not always been treated fairly.
7 Older employees of this agency also should be 8
factored into this agency's EE0 programs.
As you are aware, 9
the Age Discrimination Employment Act provides EE0 nrotection 10 to older employees to the same extent as to any other 11 protected group.
Older employees constitute a valuable 12 resource of this agency and they should be given equal l
13 opportunity with respect to hiring, promotion and placement 14 in positions of responsibility.
15 As part of our committee's oversight of the rights 16 of older employees, this vear we have conducted a number of 17 statistical studies to determine whether older emplovaas 18 are being treated fairly.
One study that we have re ce ntly 19 completed was the assignment of management Dositions in 20 recent NRC reorganization.
21 We are pleased to report that we have not found 22 discrithination with respect to those assignments.
23 As you may recall, our committee also comoleted a 24 study this year of the 1986 NRR reduction in force and made
(_/
25 various recommendations for improveme nts in this agency's
35 i
(
1 reduction in force proced.ures.
We are still actively g.
2 pursuing our recommendations, and we shall be engaFed in i
3 further dialogue with management with regard to these 4
recommendations.
l 5
One of our greatest concerns in regard to this 6
agency's 'RIF procedures is that employees here do not have 7
bumping and retr' eat rights.
We believe bumping and retreat 8
rights are vitally important to all career government 9
employees, and especially to older employees who have gre ate r 10 difficulty in obtaining other employment if they are RIF'ed, 11 Government employees in almost all other agencies have 12 bumping and retreat rights.
- At present there is some 13 controversy as to whether the granting of bumping and retreat 1
14 rights would treat all employees fairly and whether women 15 anc minorities, in particular, would be adversely af fected by 16 them.
17 For this reason, our committee, joined by the 18 Federal Women's Action. Advisory Committee, the Affirmative 19 Action. Advisory Committee and the NRC chanter of Blacks in 20 Government, have requested that the EDO soonsor a study to 21 determine whether bumping and retreat rights would be 22 advantageous to the employees of this agency.
23 It is my preliminary impression that the EDO may 24 be agreeable to such a study, and I would be haopy to answer
\\.,./
25 any questions.
If not, this conclude s my presentation.
h
36 1
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
We appreciate
,s t
2 it.
We will move to the next presenter, please,
l 3
MS. SAKENAS:
Good afternoon.
1 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Good afternoon.
5 MS, SAKENAS:
Mr. Chairman, Commis sione rs, I am 6
Cheryl Sakenas and I am Chair of the Federal Women's Program.
7 Advisory Committee.
8 I have prepared a report which I would iust like 9
to hand you, and I will excerpt from that today.
10 Actually, we view our role as two-fold: one, to 11 provide usef ul information to NRC employees, in Darticular 12 women, and second, to Drovide advice and recommendations to
(
13 the administration on concerns which affect the employees in 14 the NRC.
15 In the area.of croviding information, one of the 16 things we have been doing is conducting programs in connection 17 with the Federal Women's Program manager, and in the last 18 six months we have had four or five of those programs, which 19 have been very well attende d.
In fact, yesterday we had 20 a colice officer from Montgomery County come in and conduct 21 a session on avoiding race and sexual assault which was very 22 well attended.
23 In the other area or oroviding advice and 24 recommendation, we have worked with the administration on kJ
(
.25 looking at the staff requirements memo and some other policy 9
_--___7.---_-._-
1(
U '1 j, 37 (i
L v./
'w 1
issues.
2 We have several areas that ' e are concerned with a
right now, though, and I would like to bring thefn up ats eriis 4
time.
\\
q 5
The first area is in the reorganization.
Although 6
we are glad that we don't see any negap!,ie effects hs a ll, t',
result of the reorganization, we are ver'y 'concerkef-[ver t3 r,
.xN s-7 8
lack of progress in the area of moving women into SES.
In 9
particular, there were these 30 positions nosted, ap,9fo myD d y,
10 knowle dge, as of this date none of them were filled by women.
i 11 We are a little distressed at the administration's 12 response in that there were only nine applicants.
That is
~
l l
[
13 30 percent of the available women in what I am saying are of
(-
l 14 the GS-15 women 3, There are only 27 in the igancy/ 9 nine l
-~
.f t
15 a,pp lie d.
I think that is very commendable,.,end y. /is my p
(
16 understanding that of those nine, seven were rated as highly l
17 qualified.
So we are concerned abput that.
b, 18 We are concerned primarily because of the me saee p
[,
o N
19 that it sends to the women in the Agency and' that it is not
\\
b h.'
20 a positive message.
"/
21 The other thing we are concerned about at this.
t '
22 point is the status of the class, action suit which was /
23 entered into in April, and two elements in oart iculgr,-
The 24 first is the upward mobility positions, in which a commitment (j
c y
25 was made that by the end of fiscal year 19 8 7, there Yould be'
'O
/
v
,/
1
{
4
~ %
..a
., e J
1 ten positions.
Five have beet instituted by the regions, but t
,2 th five in. headquarters did not materialize, and we are P,,f, e
Y,..
4 4..}.;concerned about that.
ul 4
The ct?.er area is in the rotational assignments, I'
-q and while there were five rotational assignments made this A
- r/,\\ '
M
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year and we are,t happy that two of them were women, we are
.o g
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7 concerned that the ' clas s action suit stated that the orogram 6
h 8
would be advertised and that employees would be encouraged to
//
9 apply for this, and that is not the wcy these five assign-n l':
10 ments were handled, so we are concerned about that.
q '/
L 'i' 11 In conclusion, what I would like to say is that i-12 what we arp concerned about right now is that the morale of s
l
\\
13 women in this agency is not as good as it could be, and we tl3' 14 want to see a change in that, and we are going to work as 15 hard as we\\ an tS do that.
We realize that we have a e
,;e l',
e 16 responsibility 24 educating women to tue better care of i
'j
,\\
(
their.t elves dnd h,> ply f or p$sitions and work hard tc imDrove 17 9
i-18' themselves, but we believe the re is a lot that you can do 4
lll _}' ' 19 to encourage by taking a f rueful stand on this issue, 9
es.
20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Ve ry good.
Thank you very much.
t l.
21 MS. S0lpER:
Mr, Chairman, Commissioners, I am t-s JonaSodhe, Chair of the Labor-Management EE0 Committee, 22 4
b 23 and I appreciate the opportunity to speak with all of you 24 today.
U 25 Like the other committees you have heard from this x
t l
f N
1 A
u -_ - _ _ _ _ _ _
I
'f 39
/ -
1 afterno'on, we are anxious to see the formal rotational assignment progrbtmobecome a reality and are pleased to see 2
3
'Mr.
Bird's draft policy statement and invitation to provide 4
comments and suggestions.
Also, '$ support the expansion of the uoward 5
3
./
6 mobility progr5m,>Which we see as a means of. retaining,
'f f
7 retrai: ting and,.promotir.s our best lower graded emDloyees.
llt 8
From my own personal experiences with the AEC and the NRC, 9
I have seen the program really work, especially for former secbetapies,manyofwho-are now Grade 13 and 11 tragram 10 I'
. 11 assistants', computer analysts and contract negotiators.
- 12 While we see ' upward mobility as a. means of retrain-j 13 ng our lower-graded emoloyees, we also' recognize the need 14 to Patrain and cross-train the professional and technic'al-
),
h, 15 l ' s t ff to meet the changn g nature of.the Agency's workload l
I 16 ami mission of protecting public health' and safety.
17 The retraining / cross-training concept is discussed 18 in the strategic plan, but we have receive d very little 4
/
19 information on the subiect and would appreciate being brought 1f 20 up to date on what is happening in this area.
/6 21 We want to encourage the Commission to extend the 22 compressed work schedule option to the NRC's' approximately i
23 1200 managers, supervisors, secretarie e and other non-24 bargaining unit employees.
An Office of Personnel evaluation
(
25 of the CWS trial period held this summer found that 92
i,
40 l
l l
I 1
percent of the, respondents -- and that was 21 percent of the 1
l l'
2 total population of the non-bargaining unit -- would like j
i l
3 to see the CWS continued.
Nine ty-one percent of the l
(
\\
4 respondents indicated that the CWS had improved morale, 66 5
' percent said job satisfaction had improved, 44 percent said 6
the CWS had a positive effect on their commuting.
7 Most of those responding found no change in their 8
ability to interact with others, plan work, meet deadlines g
and hold meetings.
l 10 In addition, 13 senior managers, including, I 11 understand, all of the regional administrators were inter-12 viewed following the trial period, and 66 percent were in l
13 favor of' continuing the CWS for non-bargaining" unit 14 employees.
All were in agreement that there was no effect at 15 any time on public health and safety, 16 The senior managers noted increased morale because of the CWS option and thought that this should be considered 17 18 in deciding.whether or not to continue the program.
Twelve 19 of the 13 senior managers interviewed stated that making the 20 CWS available to all employees would helo the dispa ri ty caused i
21 by different treatment of the bargaining unit and the non-22 bargaining unit emoloyee s.
23 Several years ago the Commission requested that 24 the staff prepare and administer NRC-wide a survey to
' gather the EE0 views and coinions of all emp]oyees on a number 25 l
=
41 l'
of work-related topics such as the EE0 program, the l'
2 performance appraisal. process, merit selection, trainine and 3
de velopment, job satisfaction, supervision, and awards and 4
recognition, to name a few.
Well, maybe I have named them 5
all.
6 As yet the survey has not been administered NRC-7 wide.
All of the committees spent a lot of time working 8
with the Office. of Administration to develop the questions 9
and response choices.
We feel that the survey would be an 10 important tool in determining where we stand on these areas i
11 from our employees ' pe rspe cti ve.
12 We might want to add additional topics at this
(
13 time or to make it more broad-based, but the point is it is 14 difficult to tell if we are making progress if we don't know 15 whe re we are starting from as far as the employees' perspectiv o 16 on these issues, and in order to have the skilled, motivated 17 respected, innovative, participating workforce that i s our 18 goal, we need to know employees' views in these areas.
19
'We hope the Commission will want to go forward 20 with the survey in the near future and then periodically after 21 that.
If so, the purpose of the survey should be clearly 22 stated to all employees along with re ference to the Caadssion's i
23 inte re s t in the survey results and expectation that all I
24 employees participate and a commitment that management will N._/
25 take appropriate action if the questionnaire results identify
42 I
areas of major concern to'the staff.
2 Once survey results are received, we hope that the 3
advisory committees can play an active role in analyzing 4
the data and providing inputs, recommendations and guidance 5
concerning survey results and follow-up.
6 I certainly appreciate the opportunity to speak 7
with you this afternoon on our EE0 concerns.
It is imoortant 8
that we not let ourselves go backwards even a little bit.
9 We must hold our own and move forward, make progre ss at eve ry 10 opportunity.
I think that is the key word here.
Mr. Stello 11 mentioned it earlier this afternoon: opportunity.
We have to 12 be aware of opportunity, we have to learn to recognize 13 opportunity, and we must take advantage of opportunity, use 14 it and make it work for us.
It can be done.
It is a 15 challenge, but it is the American way.
16 Thank you ve ry much.
17 CHAI'RMAN ZECH:
Thank you.,
18 MR. KERR:
Thank you, Jona.
Sam?
19 MR. PETTIJOHN:
Mr. Chairman and other Commission-20 ers, my name is Sam Pettijohn and I represent the NRC 21 chapter of Blacks in Government.
22 The NRC chapter of Blacks in Government had not 23 planned to participate in the brie,fing and had a ve ry l
24 difficult time, I guess, coming to the conclusion to make
'(-
25 some statements.
I would like to say first of all that any
43 l
I ctatements that I make are certainly not made in any negative 2
sense, but the reality of the situation is we made Dresenta-3 t' ions four times in the past and we have not been able to 4
identify any meaningful impact on real DeoD1e, being the 5
black employees at NRC.
6 That put us in a very difficult position.
First 7
of all, we are very appreciative of t he f act that the 8
Agency allows the chapter of Blacks in Government to function 9
at NRC, and we want to make that point clear.
What we have 10 found is that the briefing and the data that is used to 11 describe the progress of EE0 at NRC tends to give a snapshot 12 of the problem at any point in time but doesn't re ally -- the 13 effects of the problem,,but doesn't really identify the 14 picblem.
15 What we would suggest, I guess, is that the 16 Commissioners and the EDO and Staff, if they would, would do 17 what we have done, and that is talk to black employees at 18 NRC, to real people that are in the re gional office s, that 19 are among headquarters offices, and we are absolutely certain 20 that you will conclude the same thing that we have, which is 21 that in spite of the good intentions, that the re is something 22 being missed itere in terms of what we are doing having 'a 23 real imoact on equal opportunity for re al people.
24 We feel also that the Commission and the EDO staff
%.)
25 will conclude that aside from any duties, responsibilities of
44 i
i 1
law or otherwise that have to do with EEO, that there is
(
2 simply a benefit to the Agency to provide an equal opportunity l
3 to everybody, and that that benefit is sufficient that there j
4 need be no requirements to laws or any other requirements.
5 That concludes my statement.
Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
7 MR. KERR:
Mr. Chairman, that conclude-s the 8
remarks of the people on this side unless you have some 9
q ue s tions.
10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Questions from my fellow 11 commis sioners ? Commissioner Roberts ?
Commissioner Bernthal?
12 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I want to ask a couole of 13 que stions here on issues that one or two of the presenters 14 here have brought up.
15 One of you mentioned -- let me see if I can find 16 it here.
I guess it was I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing 17 it right.
Is it Sakenas?
MS. SAKENAS:
That's right.
18 I
19 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
From the Fe de ral Women's I
l 20 Advisory Committee.
You raised the point of the pe rcentace 1
21 of women available in certain pools, particularly in engineer-i 22 ing fields, you mentione d, I guess, and suggested that the 23 numbers that we are using are in conflict with those used 24 by the National Science Foundation.
)
1 25 I guess that I will take that at face value and 1
i
45 l
i I
suggest that we ought to take a look at what is going on 2
there.
If anybody ought to know, the NSF ought to know.
3 i
3 I don't know which one would nake the picture look better or 4
worse, quite frankly, for us, but I do think that if there is
-i 5
a problem in the statistics that we are using from the Oak 6
Ridge study, we ought to take a look at that.
7 (Commis sioner Roberts le f t the meeting. )
~
8 MR. STELLO:
We have funded a new study and the 1
1 9
results will be out in the near future and will have whatever 10 new information is available, so it is under way.
i 11 MR. KERR:
We must have that information before we 12 assign agency goals, so consequently we will utilize the 13 most current information available, and that is the informa-14 tion we have contracted for Oak Ridge Associated Universities.
15 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Do we know what NSF is 16 using?
17 MR. KERR:
George?
I believe it is the same 18 information.
19 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Same thing.
20 MR. KERR:
Yes, they are.
21 MR. BIRD: In certain cases the populations in cer-22 tain populations aren't Ereat enough to have that data looked 23 at by other sources, so Oak Ridge has really filled the void 24 in looking at certain occupations, Particularly nuclear V
25 enginee. ring and health physics.. The y don ' t ha ve data 4
4 1
46 i
I I
collected otherwise.
2 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Let's make sure we are all 3
singing from the same sheet of music and, I hope, one that 4
has the right notes on it; otherwise, we will never know what 5
we are doing here.
6 (Commissioner Roberts returned to the meeting. )
COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
One other point I d'id want 7
8 to raise, and I believe it was with respect to the Affirmative 9
Action Advisory Committee re oo rt, Ms. Kadanbi, or at least it 10 is signed by a chairman here, Kadambi.
The issue that was 11 raised there is the iob appraisal ratings, and the one '
12 Point I agree with you it looks like there is a problem, 13 particularly at the " outstanding" le ve l, but I think it would 14.,
also be interesting if we could get a correlation of those 15
. numbers with time in the. job and see whether that trend holds 16 throughout, whether the person is new on the job or has been 17 on the job for s.ome period of time.
l 18 I recognize the difficulty with the statistics of 19 small numbers again, and it may be statistically insignificant 4
20 but it just is a thought I had that I would hope that that 21 improves, pe rhaps, as oeople are in th e job longer.
If it 22 does not, then I think there is little question that one has 23 to ask what is going on there.
I 24 You don't happen to know that off-hand, do vou?
(~
25 MS. TRIPATHI:
No.
As I mentioned'in my
47 1
presentation, we are still in the middle of our analysis, so
\\
4 l
2
'your point is well taken.
We will be 'sure that we have l
l 3
detailed analysis where we can take into consideration bo,th l
1 4
length in service and also the training which was accumulated i
5 on the job since the person came on board.
6 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
All right.
Le t me ask.
We did do that last year, 8
presented to the Commission, and when we get back to analyzinF 9
the appraisals in fis' cal 1988, we will do it again.
10 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
One of you, I think Mr.
11 Pettijohn, also mentioned the problem of real' people, and I 12 share that concern.
In fact,.you know, all the statistics 13 and all the numbers have a certa'a sterility to them.
They 14 are meaningful in a sense, but I want to get to the issue here, 15 to an issue that I think cuts across all lines here, and in
~
16 fact, is not even confined to women.
It is certainly not 17 ~
confined to any minority group.
That is the issue of 18 day care, which has been gaining momentum as an issue in 19 the Federal Government in recent years and, in fact, has 20 even begun to stretch acrom the gender gap from women to 21 men.
22 We seem not to be making progress much faster than l
23 we are on the second building right now in that a re a, and I 24 am just wondering -- which isn' t ve ry f as t, as I unde rs tand V
25 it -- I am just wonde ring -- we ll, tell me if I am wrong, l
______._m.__.._____
48 l'
but my understanding is that we are not moving terribly fast i
2 on the second building at this point.
Well, Vic, let me 3
finish before you demur here.
p 4
If that is the case, do our objectives with i
5 re spe ct to day care depend entirely on the second building 6
or what is the story?
So inform me if I am misinformed.
7 MR. STELLO:
Our plan is to include day care in
-- i 8
the second building.
We have met with the developer..As 9
you are aware, we have met with the Montgomery County --
10 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Yes, I am well aware of 11 that, but how fast is the second building moving?
12 MR. STELLO:
And he expects, if we can get through 13 the approval process, to improve substantially the date
'r 14 for the new building.
We are now looking at 1990.
The only 15 space that we have allocated and will have available for 16 that purpose is in the second building.
17 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
1990 for --
Occupancy.
19 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Do vou believe that?
20 MR. STELLO:
I have no reason whatsoever to doubt 21 that one can do that.
22 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I will bet vou a lunch.
23 MR. STELLO:
You are on.
24 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Are you game for two A/
25 lunches?
i
49 a
1
( Lau gh te r. )
2 MR. STELLO:
I'm game for' two lunches.
3 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Okay.
I think you caught 4
the point.
5 MR. STELLO:
I don't bet two lunches without 6
believing that that is achievable, either, 7
COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: I will be here to collect.
8 My point is a serious' one, though, and that is that if we do 9
get hung up out_there on the second building question -- my 10 latest information suggests that we haven' t passed the 11 county, or.is it city, planning.Drocess yet, and that may 12 take a while -- tha t we may need to take another look at
/
13 that so we don't defer this thing what might turn out to be 14 more than the 2-1/2 years you suggest.
15 MR. STELLO:
I would make a very short statement.
16 If we get into dif ficulty and we don't get the second 17 building, I will str,.igly re :omme'nde d that the Commission 18 immediately go to GS A and Congress and find a way to get us 1
19 consolidated.
I don't believe we can accent having that i
20 second building put in jeooardy.
I think it is too importan.
21 to us.
22 The Planning Council -- for the status for all of 23 you -- originally were going to recommend de ferral, withdrawal j
24 or denial of the application for that building.
After the j
(/
25 meeting at which they heard testimony from us, GSA and the
50 1
de veloper, the issues that were causing them difficulty 2
appear to have been resolved and identified and they have 3
convened or will convene an additional hearing to hear the 4
resolution of those issues four weeks from the last date 5
of hearing, of which I am hopeful that approval will come 6
out of that next hearing.
7 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Okay.
8 MR. BIRD: I would just add to that that we are 9
continuing to plan for a day care center.
We know approxi-10 mately what population we would have in our work force, but 11 it is keyed and geared to consolidation.
If we are not 12 consolidate'd somewhere, then the clan for day care as it 13 stands now would come apart.
We need to be consolidated in 14 order to ge t the square footage and house the number of 15 people that we would anticipate in that day care center.
16 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I would just hope, Mr.
17 Chairman, that we continue to focus on that issue because 18 one of the things that I gue s s we have n ' t talked much about l
19 here today is the turnover rate.
We have in one context, 1
20 but generally speaking, are we able to keep the women and 21 minorities that we finally do promote and hire?
In many cases 22 and not just in the case of women or in the case of minorities
)
23 the dif fe re nce could be this rather concre te action, something 24 that can grab onto that is not statistics, and that is
\\)
25 providing day care for childre n.
L____________
l
51 l
1 I think I will let my colleagues go on here.
I' t'
2 have one or two more.
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Mr. Rogers?
4 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Just looking at the 5
regional differences in the workforce profiles, it looks like 6
there are some rather significant dif ferences between some of 7
the regions, particularly in respect to women.
What are
~~
8 we doing about looking at that kind of thinF?
When something 9
starts to show up as it does here in these statistics on l
10 page 4 out of 5 at the end of the firs t report, the workforce 11 p ro file, Region 2, looks very low in women.
What do we do 12 when we see something like that start to crop up?
Is there 13 any discussion of that particular' phenomenon?
14 MR. KERR:
Yes, there is.
As I indicated earlier, 15 wherever we are un de r-re p re sente d, be it in one of the 16 occupations that we assigned goals or not, we try to 17 encourage the hiring of women or minorities in that Darticular 18 office that is doing the hiring.
With the assignment of goals 19 it depends upon the under-r.eDresentation and the availability, 20 and the availability of women and minorities in that 21 particular occupation.
22 If they are going to have projected vacancies, we 23 will assign a goal based upon'the fact that we know that 24 there is availability of women in that occunation.
's) 25 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: I am not talking about I
l
52 i
1 occupation now; I'm talking by region.
Presumably the needs i,
2 for individual regions are rather similar.
3 MR. KERR:
I really can't answer that except that 4
we have to consider also the availability of public 5
transportation in certain regions, which could possibly 6
affect'the fact that you would have more women in a particu-7 lar area than others.
8 MR. BIRD:
I nd ght add, ttat there is some focus on 9
this in the performance appraisal process, and Vic can 10 speak to'this.
As he reviews the appraisals in this 11 particular area of EE0 with the regional administrators,
12 these subjects do come up and this data is available 'to 13 look at.
14 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
That one just sort of 15 hooped out at me.
If you look at the percentage of white 16 women, for example, in Region 2, it is ve ry low.
17 MR. STELLO:
Yes, but if you look over in the i
i 1
18 column under blacks, the blacks are 19 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Yes, I see it.
l 20 MR. STELLO:
The re is a high representation and j
l 21 the availability is higher as well.
22 COMMISSIONER ROGEPS:
The other question I have, l
23 and I don't think you can really give an answer now, but 24 I would like to know more about what vour trainine programs i.
25 really are, what they are specifically and what the
53 1
objectives of them are and how. they match up against where 2
your need areas are; what is the correspondence between
]
3 training programs and areas of need.
Is there an in-house 4
strategy for filling needs by in-house training programs?
5 What is the extent that that overlap is there?
I would like 6
to know a little bit more about the upward mobility 7
program.
8 MR. STELLO:
With respect to training, we have yet 9
to really come to grips with doing a good iob in formulating 10 that.
As part of career development thinking, which we have 11 just begun in the last few months to get really serious with 12 and generate some policy agency-wide in career development,
i 13 and then combine that together with where we do need to 14 cxpand training above what we already have and how that can 15 be integrated.
We have not yet done that, and it is a good 16 point and I share the concern that has been expressed.
I 17 think it is valid, and we need to do a lot better than we 18 have.
19 We will supply that for the Commission when we 20 have it.
I wouldn't try to suggest to you we are anywhe re 21 near finished.
We are not.
22 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
24 Mr. Bernthal, did you have other questions?
\\.:
- 25 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I have only a comment.or
54 I
two --
t 2
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Go right ahead.
l l
3 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL -- that I hope uculd be 4
useful to, at least to me the next time around when we hear 5
about these matters.
One is that I agree with your comment 6
that charts really are a great help to me.
I can't integrate 7
numbers quickly enough to detect trends and understand as 8
quickly as I can pictures.
I think that is true, or I hope 9
it is true of most of us, so if we could cast 10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I think it is true of all of us.
11 No question about that.
12 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
into picture form, it
[
13 certainly would help one commissioner, at.least.
14 The other point that would be helpful, I think, is 15 this question of turnover rate.
I mentioned it in connection 16 with the day care issue.
I think it is something we ought 17 to look at care f ully : are we keeping the minorities and 18 women that we either promote or that we hire from the outside?
19 You may have data on that, and if you care to talk for a 20 brief moment about that, I would like to hear it.
21 MR. STELLO:
A short comment.
If you look at the 22 data, although the absolute numbers have come down in each I
i 23 of those categories, if you look at the percentages, they 24 have gone up, and that suggests that we are doing a be t te r
\\.)
25 job of retaining those minorities than --
55 1
C,0MMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
At re taining them.
2 MR. STELLO:
So we are gaining.
3 I
COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Good.
1 4
MR. STELLO:
How well we do in the future remains 5
to be seen.
Part of our big problem in turnover, quite 6
frankly, is going to be the competitive nature of 'the salary 7
out in industry, who are starting now to compete for 7
8 our employees.
That is something that, with the constraints 9
of the government, we just simply are not going to be able 10 to deal with.
When salary becomes the issue, we will not be 11 able to compete.
The secretarial end of this business has 12 demonstrated that more than I care to be aware of.
j 13 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Again I would urge, to the
~
14 extent it is possible for one agency -- Paul, you might see 15 what we can do with respect to uograding some of those 16 positions.
17 MR. BIRD:
That's r.igh t.
As I mentioned --
l 18 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Many of them have up grade d,
I l
19 in fact. I just wonder whether our grading of them keeps un 20 with the skills that now are re q ui re d.
i 21 MR. BIRD:
We have normally been held out by 22 some outside sources as being ahead of the rest of the Federal 23 Government in our grade scheduling for those nersonnel, but 24 that hasn't kept us from looking at an additional uoarading, 25 and we are studying that now, seeing if we have the budget l
4
- ______=_.
56 1
to support it if we do it,.and hopefully we will resolve
{
2 that within the next month or so.
3 MR. STELLO:
I would need to remind the Com' mission 4
that we also have another oroblem. I think we are now either 5
the highest graded or second highest graded agency in the 6
federal Government, average grade.
7 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
That 's because we are 8
better than everybody else.
9 MR. STELLO:
Well, it also draws the attention to 10 us, so any further changes become one that gets --
11 MR. BIRD:
That's right.
The agency that has 12 historically been ahead of us is OMB, and there is a danger 13 in passing OMB.
14
( Laughter. )
15 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
That is be cause nuclear 16 power is important and oversight of these matters is 17 important, and I would expect us to be fairly high in the 18 ranks there.
19 I think that concludes.
One other que stion.
20 Somebody mentioned, I think it was Ms. Sakenas, mentioned 21 the NRR statistics.
Le t ' s s ee. How many new SES slots were 22 there?
23 MS. SAKENAS:
I think 30.
24 COMMISSIONER BERNTFAL:
And how many of those went 25 to women?
l 1
4
57 1
MS. SAKENAS: None.
2 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Has anybody got an 3
explanation for that?
It doesn't sound good.
It isn't good.
4 MR. STELLO:
I don't like making excuses.
As 5
I remember the total number of candidates for that position, 6
it was something on the order of 320, and out of those, 7
there we re, I think, seven, eight or nine 8
MS. SAKENAS:
Mr. Stello, I think it was 427, and 9
nine women.
10 MR. STELLO:
Thank you.
It is back to that same 11 basic question.
If you look at the pool of candidates that 12 you had, you had 427, only nine of whic'h were women.
Seven 13 of those, I think, didn't make the qualified list.
They 14 didn't get se le cte d.
Does that suggest that thsre were other 15 candidates that got selected that did not de se rve it?
Of coursa not.
I think our real problem is finding a way to 16 17 get that "9"
to be a far bigger number, and that is how I 18 think we can get the re.
19 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I think we do need to look 20 care fully at that.
21 MR. STELLO:
One of those, I think, is still open, 22 incidentally.
23 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Individual experience and 24 encounters certainly are not thorough processes, but I do
> q) 25 seem to stumble acro.ss and meet from time to time ve ry
58 I
capable women, including women from NRR in this agency, g
2 and I would hope that we are paying careful attention to the 3
promotion of some of these more senior people who are re a dy 4
to be put into more senior management ranks.
5 MR. STELLO:
I will tell you that I review each of 6
the selection packages myself, and when there are minorities 7
and women, I make sure that that information is called 8
specifically to the individual making the selection to make 9
them consciously aware of those facts.
I stop short, I do 10 not believe it is appropriate for me to override their l
11 decision process.
But I do make sure that in each and every 12 case, that is done.
That is about as far as I, feel
/
13 comfortable going at the moment.
14 COMMISSIONER BERUTHAL:
I hooe we see good 15 n'u be rs, too.
So thanks.
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Le t me make just a couole 17 comme nt s.
First of all, I a g re e that opportunity is some-18 thing that we ought to keep in mind all the time and look 19 for opportunities to increase our number of women and minorities in our organization.
I am disappointed, I guess, 20 with the reorganization that we have made that we didn't see 21 22 any more progress because I know Mr. Stello and I talked i
23 about this be fore we began the re organization, and this was 1
one of the things we had hooed to accomplish, and it looks 24
! '~
like although we didn't, perhaps, lose ground, we didn't gain 25
59 I
much, and it is not, certa. inly, as satisfying as I hoped it 1
2 would be.
3 So I do think we should continua to look for 4
opportunities.
5 The second thing I would like to mention, though, 6
is training.
We are looking at career development.
Mr.
7 Stello has mentioned briefly.
I think this is something
~
8 that we should have done in this agency perhaps many years 9
ago, and I hope that the current ve ry preliminary, re ally,
10 look at career de velopme nt can perhaps blossom into somethine 11 that would be more beneficial to all of our employees, and 12 certainly to our women and minorities, and training is a big 13 part of that.
14 So, firs t of all, I hope our managers will be 15 giving women 'and minorities opportunities for the training 16 programs, and that is one way they can benefit themse lve s 17 as well as bene fit their emoloyees, in my judgment, is to 18 look for meaningful training that will give the employees, 19 all employees a stronger background to compete for promotions 20 and for other positions in the Agency.
21 If we go from year to vear and don' t take advantage 22 of training and experience, then we are simoly not doing the 23 right thinF 'by our emoloyees.
We have a lot of talent in our l
24 organization, in my judgment.
I know we are one of the i
tJ 25 highest-graded agencies in our country.
That is probably.as l
l 60 j
v l
1 1
it should be.
But still, with that talent we have an i
1 l 'r 2
obligation to keep that talent upgraded, to keep that i
l 3
talent current and t ake advantage of the future, that is, 4
with whatever training and experience that we can expose 5
our employees to.
6 So I think that is a challenge for our leadership 7
in our organization, and I would like to think that, Mr.
8 Kerr, you might try to pass that messa'ge to the leadership.
1 9
I know Mr. Stello is doing it with the career development i
10 program, but it might be an opportunity for you also to discuss with the officer directors and with others with 11 12 Positions of leadership in our organization, training 13 programs for all of our Decple and certainly for minorities a
14 and women.
15 So I think training is something we should keep 16 in mind all the time, and the women and minorities themselves, 17 I think, should look for those kind of opportunities, too.
18 That doesn't mean that the needs of the Agency don't come 19 first, because we know it does, but Derhaps they can't get l
. 20 the training exactly when they want it, but there may come 21 a time when they can.
But if they are interested in it, j
i i
22 enthused about it and recognize it as helping them, an I
23 Opportunity, that might be heloful, too.
24 Let me just mention brie fly, I think, some of the t
A.;
25 things that each of you said because I think it is worth I
I
\\
7-_---__-
61 j
l i
l I
repeating.
We are committed to do better in this agency.
T 2
I certainly am.
We don' t do badly for a technical agency, 3
but we shouldn't be real satisfied with what we see.
I think 4
we can do better and we should do better.
5 Ms. Raj Tripathi talked about wider publicity 6
and development of skills, and I agree with that.
Those are 7
both two very important areas to look into.
kou mentioned 8
other things, too, but I think making sure that our people 9
know the programs that are available to them and know the 10 training available to them.
That -is wider publicity of all 11 programs.
And certainly on development of skills, the same 12 idea.
'So I think those are very good suggestions.
13 Lee Dewey mentioned and emphasized the RIF 14 procedures and the bumping and retreat rights and then the 15 st.udy that he is apparently presenting to the EDO.
Those 16 do have -- there are arguments on that, as I am sure you 17 are aware, the pros and cons and so forth, in our carticular 18 agency, where I understand we do have certain ways of 19 selection and so forth that are perhaos.a little different.
20 But in any case, those matters that could impact 21 on RIF procedures and all should be looked at.
I think 22 that your thought that you didn't find discrimination is 23 important, but I think your thoughtful suggestions on how 24 to make sure that we do use all of our people, including V
25 those who are a little older, because they have a tremendous d
--__.__L.____-_-__.____-_---_----__-_.___.-__-__----
l 62 4
1 amount to offer and we don' t want to lose them through our l
2 own procedures when we don't have to.
So I would suggest 3
that you pursue that suggestion on RIT procedures and just 4
see what happens.
I don' t want to pre-j udge how it will come 5
out, but I think the idea of you pursuing it is worthwhile.
6 Ms. Sakenas has talked about the lack of progress 7
in SES, and we certainly heard that today.
She also talked 8
about upward mobility programs and positions that I think is 9
a very constructive way to look at it, and again, that 10 follows along with my line of thinking as far as training is 11 concerned and better qualifying our people.
Those are good 12 thoughts.
I think that they can be helpful to our women and 13 to all of our people.
14 Then Jona Souder talked abou-upward ability 15 emphasis, and she talked about compres se d work schedule and 16 survey of our employees.
Those are all things that I think 17 are, again -- morale problems, morale contributors to 18 perhaps a stronger organization, but I think those a re 19 constructive thoughts, too, that we should p,ursue.
20 I understand the sur.vey itself is re ady to go 21 fairly soon, so I think your suggestions are very good.
22 Sam Pettijohn talked about the fact that we have 23 had a number of these meetings and we don't seem to have 24 gotten very far, they don't seem to make much impact.
25 Our intentions are good, I think he said, and we are not
I 63 i
1 1
ge tting very far.
I think you are orobably right about most 2
of those things, but I hope that you can see the fact that 3
we all want to do better.
It is frustrating.
On the other 4
hand, I hope that we can continue with the Blacks in 5
Gove rnme nt group, too, to try to of fer constructive 6
suggestions on how we can do better, and hope you will 7
continue to work with all the groups to assist us because 8
I assure you we do want to do better and we are not 9
satisfied and it is frustrating.
10 I think the worst thing we can do is give up and la think it is hopeless, because it is not hopeless.
It can't l
12 be hopeless.
We have simply got to do better, and we can 13' do better, but we need your help to do it, M r'. Pettijohn, 14
~too, so I hope you will continue to give us that kind of 15 support.
16 Let me just conclude by saying myself that -- most 17 of you in this room have heard me talk about it before, but 18 people really are the greatest strength in our agency and 19 our country, and that is what we are talking about today.
20 You know, in this agency we have a cross-section of America.
21 We have e ve ry rac e, color and creed, and we have men and 22 women working together, good men and women working together, 23 good Americans committe d to safety, committed to your fellow 24 man.
That # s why you are here, be cau se you are willine to V
25 sacrifice.
Many of you could be making more money.
Many of t
64 a
1 you could be doing things perhaps more glamorous, but for l('
~
2 your own reasons.you have chosen to serve your country, and
(
3 I think that is commendable.
4 That means we have a lot of good people working 5
in this agency.
We have a lot of people that are dedicated 6
to their fellow man, and if that is true, and I believe it 7
is, then we should be able to solve some of these problems l
8 we are talking about.
We do have good women in this agency.
9 We do have brilliant women in this agency.
We have brilliant 10 minorities in this agency.
Again, every race, color and 11 c re e d.
12 So let's try to use the talent we have and 13 recognize that your own fellow employees, men and women, 14 black and. white, whatever color and race or creed, are Deople 15 and we are all on this Earth together at this moment, we-16 are all working for this agenev, we are all trying to serve 17 our fellow man.
So we should use our own talents and 18 re cogni ze and support each other and work together as a 19 team and try to ove rcome the imperfections in our country.
20 Our country does stand for great things.
We st rive for 21 justice, equality and freedom and many things that we don't i
22 quite attain, but we strive for them, and that is the great 23 strength of our countrv.
We falter, we take a sten back, we 24 make mistakes, but we try to admit them and go forward.
A.j 25 In my view, that is one of the g re a te s t strengths
t' l l V
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,7
, :?
.1 not.only of our country but of our agency, too, because i
V 2
we know we can do better.
We wan t to do better f ;,We can U"
3 sense the frustration here today, and I hope the next 4
meeting we have we will show be tter results.
But,we have f
n 5
got to keep working together to do it an'd recognizing the 6
talent we have and the tremencous strength on hora from each 7
other.
)
C e
8 There is great talent in this agency,.and sd (f -(q R}
- /
9 should be able to bring that talent out a litti,~.bett ter 10 than we do.
Today we are talking about equal opportunity s
11 and focusing on women and minorities, and th t is appropr ate.,
12 We should do that becaus'e we can do so muchbetter in that
( ~
13 field and that arena, but a'ls6 all of our emoloyees should
/
i{
x 14 try to participate in this program, not just those' of us in L
15 this room.
16 So I hope, Mr. Stello, you can get the word to 17 your leadership to follow throagh on iome of the things we 1
18 have talked about here today.
He Bird, +f.ia t it your i
19 program, and you, Mr. Ke rr, too, and not just these peo le 20 here who are really helping us in their own organizations 21 but I commend all of you at the table for your e fforts 22 along the line of helping your fellow man and helpinn the 23 citizens of your country.
24 So let's see if we can't perhans inspire our O
25 leadership, Not our managers.
I am going to sto7,, callina i
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'them,hanagdrs and staN calling them leaders.
1 That means g
i' h)g 2,
people.
Managers,are kind of things.
I think leadership f
Io e
3 "n.aans people..
So our leadership we should focus on and I
.s, 4 have them focusing on people.
See if we can't do better,
/
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5 See if we can't bring this talent we have and perhaps do a
\\
6 bet ter job across the board because we have 'a tremendous t i..
I 7
amount of wonderful peuple that are desirous of serving.
tr
/ 8
, so 6 hen - we work in that atmosphere, I think we all have N
l<
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dn' Oyligation to do everything we possioly can to improve.
9
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4 10 So I hope we all would leave the table today at e
s
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l-11 leas?.'ti.aying to take that message.
Let's make the most of e
( s; 12 our people, all of them, and that will make our country and 4 l ouraf"encC even stronger.1 i
13 14 Any other ecmments?
t (No response.)
15 I
16 Thank you very much.
We stand adjourned.
17
( Whe re up on, at 4:06 p.m.
the meeting was 18 q.nsluded.)
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2' R.YPORTER'S CERTIFICATE e.,
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4 This is to certify that the attached events of a
.s.
l?4 5
meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
6
'i.
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/
^
s 7
TITLE OF MEETING:
Byi;efing on EE0 Program 6,
?.
(
8
, PIACE DE MEETING:
Washington, D.C.
.l}
(
9
.DATE OFj MEETING!
Thursday, November 19, 1987
- I s
10 3
.11 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original s'f, 12 transcript thereof for the file of the commission taken 13 stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to typewriting by s
14 me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and
,.15 that tilie transcript is a true orld accurate record of the
-16
. foregoing events.
s 37 i
18
's Joan Rose 19 20 s
21 e
22 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
23 24
' 25
'/
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e 1
SCHEDULING NOTES TITLE:
BRIEFING ON EE0 PROGRAM l
SCHEDULED:
2:30 P.M., THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1987 (OPEN)
I DURATION:-
APPROX 1-1/2 HRS
' PARTICIPANTS:
VICTOR STELLO, ED0 5 MINS
- WILLIAM KERR, SDBU/CR 20 MINS
- PAUL E. BIRD 20 MINS
- OFFICE OF PERSONNEL RAJ TRIPATHI 5 MINS
- AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
~
LEE DEWEY 5 MINS
- AGE DISCRIMINATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE l
CHERYL SAKENAS 5 MINS
- FEDERAL WOMEN'S PROGRAM ADVISORY COMMITTEE JONA SOUDER 5 MINS
- LABOR MANAGEMENT /EE0 ADVISORY COMMITTEE 0
SPEAKING TIMES SHOWN ABOVE ARE APPROXIMATE.
1 4
e
_____________.__.__.._1-----_
REVI. SED 11/18/87 BRIEFING ON EE0 PROGRAM h
4 e*
4 4
1 l
l I
SDBU/CR j
11/19/87 i
l' f
ORDER OF DISCUSSION ED0 e
INTRODUCTORY REMARKS DIRECTOR, OSDBU/CR FY 87 EE0 RESULTS - VIEWGRAPHS ATTACHED DIRECTOR, OP PERS'ONNEL ACTIVITY - NO VIEWGRAPHS ADVISORY COMMITTEE CONCERNS - NO VIEWGRAPHS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADVISORY COMMITTEE COMMITTEE ON AGE DISCRIMINATION FEDERAL WOMEN'S PR03 RAM ADVISORY COMMITTEE LABOR-MANAGEMENT /EE0 ADVISORY COMMITTEE EE0 PROGRAM 11/19/S7 15 pages
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EE0 HIRING GOALS - FY-1957 i
. NRC HEADQUARTERS /
ASSIGNED GOAL STATUS REGIONAL OFFICES LAs of 9/30/87)
~
NM55 (080) 2 Hispanic Males NOT MET
.(1301) 1 White Female NOT MET (801).1 Hispanic Male NOT MET REGION I (840) 1 White Female HIRED (2/87)
(1301)1AsianMale HIRED (2/87)
(840) 1 Black Female HIRED (4/87)
REGION II (1306) 1 White Female HIRED (2/87)
(1306) 1 Hispaniq Male HIRED (2/87)
REGION III (840) 1 White Female HIRED (8/87)
(840) 1 Hispanic Male NOT MET (1306) 1 White Female NOT MET (1306) 1 Hispanic Male HIRED (9/87)
REGION IV.
(840) 1 Hispanic Male HIRED (8/87)
REGION V (840) 1 Asian Female NOT HET LEGEND:
(080)
Security Administration (801)
General Engineering (840)
Nuclear Engineering (1301)
General Physics (1306)
Health Physics
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l i
l SES By Gender and Minority Status 1
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1 ES Women Minorities Fiscal Year (9-30)
Total No.
1 No.
5 FY-1982 195 3
1.5 3
1.5 FY-1983 197 4
2.0 6
3.0 FY-1984 208 5
2.4 9
4.3 FY-1985' 202 6
3.0 9
4.5 FY-1986 193 6
3.1 10 5.2 FY-1987 193 7
- 3. 6 '
10 5.2 Nov. 1987 211 7
3.3 12 5.7 Selected Other Agencies
~
(as of 5-30-87. Preliminary)
Women Minorities g
Total No.
I ho.
1 00E 408 22 5.4 17 4.5 NSF 94 7
7.4
'5 5.4 NASA 466 15 3.2 20 4.6 EPA 228 25 11.0 7
3.0 FERC 43 4
9.3 2
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f TRANSMITTAL T0:
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