ML20234C834

Transcript of 870914 Public Meeting in Washington,Dc Re Status of Plant.Pp 1-71.Related Documentation Encl

ML20234C834
Person / Time
Site:	Peach Bottom
Issue date:	09/14/1987
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8709210430
Download: ML20234C834 (82)

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s C UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION: 1 l l l

Title:

Briefing on the Status of Peach Bottom l Location: Washington, D. C. l Date: Monday, September 14, 1987 { l \\. b Pages: 1 - 71 l l [ Ann Riley & Associates Court Reporters 16251 Street, N.W., Suite 921 ' (_) Washington, D.C. 20300 (202) 292-3950 B709210430 870914 PDR 10CFR PDR PT9.7

---wrr7 :- 1 r-v i s 7- "a 1 D I SCLA 1 MER 3 2 3 4 5 l 6 This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting;of thei 7 United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on 9/14/'87 l 8 In the Commission's office at:1717 H Street', 9 'h4. W,.. Washington, D.C. The meeting was open to public to attendance end observation. This transcript h'as not been-11 reviewed, correc'tsd, or, edited, and it may contain (~ ( 12 inaccuracies. 13 The transcript' is intended solely for general a 14 informationci purposes. As.provided by 10 CF'R 9.103, I t is 15 not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the 16 matters discussed. Expressions of epinion-In'this transcript 17 do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs. No l 18 plead.ing or other paper may be filed with'the Commission in 19 any proceeding as the result of or ad'ressed to any statement ~ g d 20 or argument contained hereles, e x'c ap t as the Commission-'may: 21 'adthorl=e. l 22 1 -i 23 24 25 .1 ./J

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I i,,- 3-i 4 1 T g UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. ' ' .s .a 2 NUCLIEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION f.j z 7 3 j 4 BRIEFING ON THE STATUS OF~ PEACH' BOTTOM ' t ' i 5 6 PUBLIC MEETING ~7 4E. A -B 3 Nuclear Regulatory Commissions f 9 Room 1130 10 1717 E' Street, N rthwest. -11 Washington. D.C. 12-13 ' Monday, September 14, 1987. y 15 The Commission met 'in open session, pursuant to-16 notice, at 2:00 p.m., the Honorable LANDO W. ZECH, Chairman of. 17 the commission, presiding. 'q 18 19 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: 20 LANDO W.

ZECH, Chairman o'f the Commission:

O 21 FREDERICK M. BERNTHAL, Member of the Commission i 22 KENNETH CARR, Member of the Commission 23 KENNETH C.. ROGERS, Member of the Commission 24 25 I

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1 STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED'AT'THE COMMISSION TABLE:

2. 3 W.'PARLER , S..CHILY i j 1 5 V. STELLO

6 T. MURLEY 7.

W. KANE ~ l' 8 W. RUSSELL r-9 B. BOGER i 1 3 1 10 I 11-J.L.'EVERETT ' ' I .i 12 g J.H. AUSTIN, JR. -) 13 ( J.S. KEMPER - l 14 J.W. GALLAGHER l I 1 15 1 D. SMITH' .I 1 16 '.l 17 I 1 18 i i 19 20 . ) 1 21 ' i' 4 -( 22 23 24 _____E..____________.

y 3' .g. 'l -PROCEEDINGS c,.- 2 CHAIRMAN'ZECH: Good afternoon, ladies and' gent'lemen. Commissioner Bernthal will be with us shortly.'. Commissioner 3 4~ Roberts will not be present this afternoon. He is on: extended. 5 travel overseas. ,5 The Nuclear: Regulatory 4cmmission Executive Director J 7 for Operations issued an immediateLeffective; order' requiring [ l p 8 Philadelphia Electric Company to shut down*the PeschiBottomL Atomic Power-Station on March.31st-of this; year. 9' 10 That order.resulted from aLspecific1safetyn investigate ~on that confirmed allegations of. sleeping and: 11 ~ 12 inattention to duty'by licensed operatcrs who.were;assi'gned to ...( 13 monitor reactor operations in the Peach Bottomtcontrol icom. le { Commissioner Bernthal entered the room at 2:03'p.m.) 15 The order also acknowledged a continuing: pattern of-16 inadequate and ineffective management actions on NRC' identified- ~17 deficiencies at the' plant. o 18 Since the time the order was issued, both ~ l L 19 Philadelphia Electric Company and the Nuclear Regulatory ~ ~ i 20 Commission'have boen investigating andLreviewing the l i 21 circumstances surrounding the events that preceded:the order.to 22: determine what actions are necessary and sufficiant'to allew? 23 re-start of the plant. l 24 .The purpose of today's meeting is for the

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, j 25 Philadelphia Electric Company and the NRC~3taff to.brief the 1 I N

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1 LCommission'concerning.the commitment to excellence' action plan 1

2 for Peach Bottom and the. status of staff actions concerning 3 Peach Bottom. 4 As I-have stated repeatedly over the-past several j 5-years, I am convinced that people, both plant management and i 6 -licensed operators, are the' key to safe operations-of) nuclear i 7 power plants. I believe that the. attitude of all people'in'a j '8 work environment, in a nuclear power plant,.is' generally-9 reflective of the attitude of senior management.- ) 11 0 I am anxious to hear from Philadelphia' Electric-11 Company concerning the actions they-have taken'and additional' l 12 actions they have planned to restore NRC and public, confidence i 13 in their ability'to safely operate the Peach BottomfAtomic' s (' 14 Power Station. l 15 During the presentation from Philadelphia Electric,1I 16 would ask that-you specifically address how your commitment to 17 excellence action plan addresses the root causes'of conditions 4 18 that led to the EDO's March 31st order. f 19 I understand that copios of the slides to be used i 20 'during the presentation are available on the table in the back 21 of the room. 22 Do any of my fellow Commissioners have any opening. 23 comments to make? 24-COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Yes, Mr. Chairman. .I just want 25 to point out that for some time prior to my appointment and ( -~

s.; 5 t;, '1. confirmation as-a Commissioner of the Nuclear Regulato'ry' l 2 Commission, I served as a Director for Public' Service: 3' Enterprise Group. That organization through their'sub'idiary, s 4 Public Service Electric and Gas, holds operating. licenses for' 5 Hope Creek Generation Station Unit I and-Salem Nuclear 6 Generation Station,. Units;.T..and.1I, and'has-a minority-7 ownership interest in Peach Bottom Atomic Power Station,fUnitsi' 8 II and III. 9, 'As a result of such prior affiliation,?ILhave' agreed-10 that as of August:7, 1987, l the date I assumed my present: 11 . position, and for a period of two~ years thereafter, I would-12 recuse myself from any commission. decision ~ making with respect j 13 to any matter affecting Public Service: Enterprise. Group.- s I .(' 14 In line with.this. commitment, I have. recused.myself i l 15 from participation in th'is matter before the Commission today. 16: MR. PARLER: Mr. Chairman,Lthe, General Counsel 17 concurs with Commissioner Rogers' statement.. 18 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Fine. _Are there any other comments 19 to make? t 20 (No response.) 4 21 CRAIRMAN ZECH:' I understand, General ^ Counsel, in., 22 view of Commissioner Rogers' statement, there-is.no. objection .23 or no-problem uith.him remaining here today for this meeting;- 24 is that correct? 25-MR. PARLER: s As long as he does not participate:in

6 q 'l the decision making. process. / -2 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you very'much. Any other 3-comments from my fellow Commissioners? 4' (No response.] 5 CHAIRMAN ZECH: We would ask Philadelphia Electric 6 Company to.please come to thentable. Pur. Everett, you may L 7 . proceed;and please introduce your colleagues. 8 MR. EVERETT:.I;certainly.Will; Thank you. :We 9 appreciate the opportunity to meet'with theLCommission. 10' CHAIRMAN ZECH: Would. you' make sure the: microphone-l L d 11 gets a little closer, if you can.- Thank you very1much. 12 MR. EVERETT: We appreciate very much this; 13 opportunity to meet with the Commission on a. matter of! utmost 14 importance to us obviously, l 15 On my right is Mr. John H.' Austin. Heils President 16 and Chief operating officer of our company.. On my left is Mr.- t 17 Dickenson Smith, who is a relatively new Manager of our Peach' 18 Bottom Station. On his left, Mr. Joseph Gall'agher, the Vice I 19 President for Nuclear Operations. .N 20 The three.of us will make a brief presentation andLat- ~ L 21 your. convenience, we will respond to your questions. 22-CHAIRMAN ZECH:- Did-you forget one of your 23 colleagues? 24 MR. EVERETT: n . Excuse me. I forgot John Kemper, most 25 important colleague. John is Senior Vice President for-

7' 1 Engineering and Production, and at one time held the title of 1 2 Manager of the Peach Bottom Atomic Power Station. HeLis one'of 3 our most experienced nuclear. managers. 4 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you very much. You may 5 proceed. 6 MR. EVERETT:' -Thank you. 7 I've said on several occasions that the shutdown of 8 Peach Bottom was the most devastating event in my career with 9 the company. I feel that way totally. I think most'of my. 1 10 colleagues have taken this. shutdown the same way. We are 11 i determined to turn the entire situation around at Peach. Bottom.. 1 12 We immediately after the shutdown order, put'in place 13 both inside and outside expertise to determine the root causes- -(si N / 14 of the problems at Peach Bottom and develop in detail the means l 15 to eliminate those problems. 16 I might remind the Commission.that we have another 17 plant, Limerick, which has been just the opposite of Peach 18 Bottom, in that it has received very high marks throughout its 19 history. One unit is in operation. One unit is about 75 l 20 percent complete in construction and it continues to be a star 21 performer. 22 Looking at the problem first under Mr. Austin, our 23 President, was an all Philadelphia Electric.in-house team, l 24 assisted by the Management Analysis corporation of San Diego, 25 California, giving us an outside view. At my request,~our-

.i 8 ll - Board formed a special Board committee to oversee the entire- /m J 2 operations. They retained Admiral' Dennis Wiikinson as a-3 consultant and we have retained a: number.of other specialists-4 throughout the. process of determining theLpr'blems at" Peach o 5 Bottom, the causes and the best~possible ways <to? address them. 6 You will hear in some detail from thelothers1who?will' 7 opeak today that the most-serious' problem that we have'found"is 'l 8 the. lack of leadership in the-managementtof the. plant. 1 Higher 9 management'did not recognize.th weaknesses in the management-e 10 at the plant-and.the lack of good <communicationsLinside that: 11 management process, and we did not-take stern'enough-andLsoon 12 anough measures to correct the problem. 13 (- There was poor leadership that. led to lack off 14 communicationsbetweenplantmanagementandcorpbrate- .q 15 management, as well as very poor communications:amongtthe: 16 operating personnel at the plant itself'.'.There'are many;other j i 17 contributing causes, which we'are prepared tofdiscuss. l -r 18 The result was we have had poor morale at'the plant;) 19 lack of professional attitude on the-part of1some of the' 20 operators, bordering at. times on_ arrogance,fand extremely poor-21 communications as to who was responsible precisely-for;what 22 operations. l 23 Peach Bottom.is aniold plant butLthat:is no excuse.~ 24 It has been a successful' plant. We are; determined tolget'it 't 25 back not only to success, but in' today's m6'derq1world,,lto live 'i .1 1-W

9 -1. .up to the title we.have given this recovery plan. 2 We have done a number of things.immediately and over 3 the period since. shutdown. First of all, we have made a number 4 of management' changes. Just three months prior to the Peach 5. Bottom shutdown order,'we had'made. upper management changes in 6 the management of our nuclear operations.. Prior'to th'at-' time,. 1 7 the management-of'our: nuclear plants came under a"vice B President for Electric Production. He had both fossil as well 9 as nuclear. responsibilities. 10 The. management changes just prior to-the shutdown 11 order, we placed Mr. Gallagher in'a vice presidential position 12 for exclusively the jurisdiction over our operating nuclear 13 plants. His only-job.is to ensure they are operatedLsafely, '~ 14 successfully and excellently. He. reported to aLnew Vice 15 President, a new position within' our' company, that John Kemper : 16 holds, Senior Vice President for. Engineering and Production. 17 We felt under John we were putting all of thel resources of the 18 company as far as nuclear support as well as nuclear. 19 operations, so that he would be the responsible official of the-. 20 company that could bring to bear everything that needed to be 21 done at either one of our nuclear; installations. 22 That happened just prior.to.the shutdown. Since that" 23 . time, we have replaced the Plant Manager, the' Assistant Manager 24 and the Engineer in charge of; operations..Therefore, wa have ~ 25 had management changes between Mr. Austin'and the shift ~

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j 1; operatoipglvhich will' include all(of:the' shift superintendents 'who were in' charge of this shift of operatora.. ( 2 <, e 3 ," We have haen Indergding. operator evaluation screening 1 4 'and rg-training. Not all the operators who were at. Peach 5 ' Bottom that held licensas will'go.back into cperation, 6 obv.icusly. We ha70 been revieving:and. updating all technical ) i I 7 procedures and ~adm;,niat:rative controls and they will? be 1 i 8 incorporated in thejre utart i .l-9- j We have bstsu putting on additional personnel for-J 10 l training ar; licensed operators because we have learned that we-mkst have a surplus, rather 'than just exactly enough Llicansed ~ 11 3 12 operatingLpersonnel. y, 13 / WA have been addressing tha.variousLhumNn relations j \\ 14 factors that contributed to the problems;at Peach Bottom. We. 1 15 hnve developed a new' code.of' professional conduct with tholh'lp l e 1 16 of.the men themselves who will operatr/the plant,, backed by'. 17 i stronger and ?!Wtter understood' disciplinary code. i 18 q There is the.rotpirement that .sen individual before 19 ^ ho goes back to opornting Peach Dcttom :will nake an individual 4 commitment to this ecide of professional conduct as a conditinti 20 n of're-employmentit/the tew Peach Bottomi 21 22 We'h we revie/ed all yast criti isms by the NRC and f ( 23 . INPO,, of all the operations at' Peach Bottom stArougri the years, 3 24 which hkve resulted in two rather largejprograms.to improvci 25 those o>erations. One referred to it the Peach Bottom' 4 e y 3 1 -/ 1,e

T! s.- o U L11 y ~ i 'l 4 improvement' plan and'the-other referred to'is!ths1 Peach Bottomi s 2 enhancement progrcm',.both'of;those plans have been. completely 3 3, reviewed and are incorporated in:our.re-start; plan'o .q -4 -We. bring to the problem significant' assets. .I;; don't'. 1 5 know of any.utilityLthat has more depth ofttechnicalicompetence-15 in the nuclear field. That has.been the hallmark ofjour ~7- ' company, one of the reasons why-the shutdown was/so; 8' devastating, and~we bring that to'the problem'in. addressing'it.' j l 1 9 We have a' plant thatLdoes not have serious hardware '10 deficiencies, that would'provent re-start.~ -We have excellent 11~ support.both from our corporate staff'and'fromsoutside 12 consultants and: contractors with whom/we haveLhad many, many j .) 13 . years of experience. a ' k~' J ~ .14 Above all is our dedication'to get1this plant'backLto. t 15 operating excellence that we can'ba proud of, to: reach -i 4 16 Limerick's excellence and go beyond. 17 While we are. convinced'that the programs that we are' q 18 outlining to you and that will be detailed.in our. action plan 19 will allow us.and make certain that we can operate this' plant i 20' the way we want to with excellence, these are.living-documents. .i 21 If we can improve any of the programs in ourDinteraction with 22 Commission staff or any of our outside consultants:or anyonalin 12 3 ' our'own family comes up with a better,way.of'doing-it,_we are( '24 ' going to adopt it..Therefore, while we think we are on the-i 25 gm,4 right track, this is a living document and we are open to l

12 1 modification if we feel a change or addition is going to help. 2 With that introduction, I'd like to turn now to John. 3 Austin, our President, who personally heads up the development 4 of the excellence plan and is leading it on a daily basis. 5 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you very much. Proceed, Mr. 6 Austin. 7 MR. AUSTIN: Thank you. 8 I will review the investigations we made to determine 9 root causes and summarize briefly some of the actions taken'and 10 then I will ask Dick Smith to talk to you specifically on his 11 activities at the plant. l 12 Lee has outlined the multi-pronged approach to the 13 Peach Bottom shutdown. (3 I would like to comment specifically in 14 i elaborating that the retention of Management Analysis Company I 15 was specifically to have an independent consultant assist us in l 16 investigations to determine root causes. Their investigation 17 was specifically to find out in a non-threatening atmosphere 18 what the root cause was and how to fix it. 19 You have their report as an attachment in the filed 20 CTE plan. 21 In addition, we used our own internal corporate 22 security force to interrogate and conduct its own investigation 23 for all personnel who were working in the control room or 24 associated with the control room during the period in question. 25 This is not to be confused with the plant security force. Our .__-__._______.______.___m___.______m..

-i 131 Security. Division is a corporate resource headedfby.an ex-FBIL 1 1 ...x. l '2 agent, end staffed with investigators who come to1 us with-1 r. 3 police backgrounds and who are: professionals. in ~ making I ~i J 4' investigations. i j 5 These interrogations included broad questions.beyond 1 6 the specific item'in question-leading to the shutdown to?give 7 3 us assurance that there ~ were not. other aspects bf contr$li room' l i 0 8 behavior that we'needed to follow'up on. Allfof.thefatatementsf jj 9-from that investigation have been turned' aver to the'NRC staff 1 10 so they have a. complete record.- 11 Let re' turn now to the' conclusions that"we reached: 1 12 from all'of our investigations and studiesTincluding the 13 assistance we have had from consultants.- ,s i 14 The company has concluded that thefcause:of declining 15 performance at Peach Bottom and the development;of unacceptable 16 patterns of behavior that led toLthe shutdown. order'was. 17 management deficiencies at:the plant. Specifically, poor. 18 leadership by the plant management team; failure to' initiate a 19 timely licensed operator replacement training progrhm; aL 20 station structure and culture with pre-TMI roots,,which did not 21 adapt to changes in the nuclear industry since TMI; that. 22 . corporate management was slow to recognize the developing-1 23 severity of these problems. 24 These deficiencies identified are site specific at-25 Peach Bottom and are directly attributable to the age and the I ' _g__ _.__i.w.---

1 14 ] 'l history of the' plant. -s. It has and has had a technically-2- competent staff but they failed to change with the developing 3 nuclear industry standards after TMI and on occasion, resisted j 4 this change. i 5 Our consultant's independent investigation of the 6 root cause confirms the site' specific conclusion we have 7 reached'and in the most recent SALP report for Peach Bottom I 8 Station, a finding of the NRC etaff further confirms this, root 9 cause analysis, stating the central reason for this 10 unacceptable performance was that plant management was unable 11 or unwilling to correct known deficiencies. 12 We therefore focused primary corrective actions at 13 the plant, but I hasten to add that the lessons we learned at ~ 14 Peach Bottom will indeed be applied to Limerick to prevent l 15 development of similar problems later at that plant and,as I j 16 will mention in a moment, further strengthening of our l l 17 . corporate support structure for nuclear plant aperations' I 18 support. i k I 19 I Many of the problems at Peach Bottom that were f 20 identified in the root cause analysis had in. fact been 1 21 recognized over the last two or.three: years as the result of 22 management's own work, SALPs, INPO inspections, and interaction 23 with NRC inspectors. Lee has identified several of the 24 correction items that have in fact been put in place as far _) 25 back as 1985 and leading to significant senior management u___ _a__ .__m.__________. ________._m. _..__..___.u____ -.__a

'15- -1' changes in 1986.- 'l 2 What then are the corrective actionsLinitially at'the 1 13 plant and then more' broadly,.that welhave put in place as a t j 4 result of this' root cause analysis? 5 Since.the root cause is. a management-problem,1andLI 6 particularly was responsive to yeur comments,'Mr.. Chairman,c at ] 7 the beginning, that we are' equally convinced that the secret to ) ? I 8 excellence in nuclear plants 11s' people and1their management',1we j l 9 therefore focused our primary corrective, actions on). managements l l 10 and people programs. L L 11 We have exercised ~ accountability.for unacceptable' ~ H s 12 performance. We have'made management changes and;we will:go. J 13 i - (" ',) back with a higher level of,ma'nagement. presence on. shift.; 14 Lee has outlined that'all levels of operating' 15 . management at the plant, from the Plant Man'ger'downnto the a 16 licensed operators, have already been replaced'orLwill.be 17 replaced as soon as their replacements'have been: licensed or 18 trained. That includes the Manager, Superintendent, andESenior 19 Engineer of Operations at the time of-the shutdown,.and'all: 20 shift superintendents, who in our prior organizational ~ 21 htructure were the senior management persons.on shift'24. hours-E' 22 a day.in uhe plant. 23 Lee has outlined the changes that'we~made in 1986Ein 24 our corporate management structure, to. bring together under a i 25 Senior Vice President, all of the components of nuclear power - _ _ _ - _ L

16 1 support; engineering; instrument and control and testing; 2 maintenance and construction as well as operations. This is important because it has put in one place the entire nuclear 3 4 envelope for corporate and management support. We have gone 5 further and have recently created within both the maintenance 6 operations and the testing operations specific groups assigned 7 to nuclear maintenance. 8 We have in maintenance a group that maintains nuclear 9 plant separate from fossil. Obviously, on some of the special 10 skills like turbines, we have mobile gangs that do the same in 11 both plants. 12 In testing, we have a specific nuclear testing y 13 organization. The Plant Manager's responsibility has been re- { 14 defined, that he has responsibility and control over all work 15 on the site. We are addressing questions raised in the MAC 16 Report looking at the number of layers and further i i 17 consolidation of nuclear support activities. We do think it is 18 prudent to move slowly and'not to upset in this case the Peach 19 Bottom re-start and not to upset the final year of construction 20 and licensing at Limerick II. 21 This is another address to the root cause. I would 22 submit that the corporate culture has already been changed, 23 that the plant management in place is truly a new team and that 24 its culture and those of the operators have in fact changed and 25 that there is a corporate management commitment absolutely to

17 1 further organizational evolutionary change, whatever it takes m 2 to do the job. 3 Upon re-start, our plan proposes that a higher level 4 of management will be present on every shift. We are calling 5 that the Shift Manager and Dick Smith in a moment will go into 6 detail on our plans for that organizational restructure of the 7 actual shift operation to increase management's presence. 8 We also, as Dick will outline, will have a round the 9 clock QA presence for operational QA on all shifts, 24 hours a 10 day. We have strengthened management site authority in the 11 area of discipline, grievances and selection for promotion, and 12 we are in a carefully screened program for re-training 13 operators, that Dick will also go into in more detail. 1 (3 I 14 In summary, of the 36 people at the time of the 15 shutdown who were in direct line operations, from the Plant 16 Manager down to the licensed reactor operators, 12 will not 17 return to their jobs. This is truly a comprehensive and 18 integrated program of dealing with the people portion of the 19 root cause, through strict management accour.tability, 20 strengthening on shift management and re-training of the 21 operators, and it is the cornerstone of our plan to re-start. 22 A few final comments on the plan as filed. We have 23 labeled it " Commitment to Excellence," because we want our 24 entire operation to understand that we are not embarked on a 25 program simply to re-start a plant, but to commit it to _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ =

18 1 permanent excellence. 2 This plan, the initial draft of it, was filed with 3 Region I on August 7th and on August 26th, we had a meeting with your staff and received a number of requests for 4 1 5 additional information and we are hard at work on those and 6 should finish them in the next ten days to two weeks. l l 7 The plan that was filed is the result of a total { B review of all plant deficie.ncies and needs for improvement, not 9 just the incidents that caused the shutdown. However, we 10 remain convinced, as I said before, that people and the plant l 11 management are indeed the root cause and therefore, that 1 12 portion of the plan that deals with management change, attitude I 13 change, the culture change at the plant, providing new 14 leadership to the plant itself, operator re-training and an 15 aggressive program for training a new cadre of licensed 16 operators with higher entrance level requirements are the 17 direct attack to the root cause. 18 There are almost 300 tasks in the filing and many of 'i 19 them have only indirectly to do with the cause of the shutdown 20 but are critical to the achieving of excellence, and when we 21 look at the plan, we must recognize there is those portions of 22 the tasks that go to the people root cause and lots of other 23 tasks that go to long run excellence. 24 The plan is over 100 pages long and represents three s 25 months' work of full time, almost 100 people, consultants and ~

.i. ; g. 1: i w 19-1 on our staff and part time for another:200 more., lit is'an? g 2 ambitious undertaking and probably will'take;on the.: order.'of.. j\\ 3 4,000 man months over:several1 years.to.: bring;all;.these. j ~ -) improvements'into place:for the long run excellence forywhichi l 4 l, _5 we striv'e. U 6 The schedule contemplates. completion of-the nitial~ - 6 7 licensed operator re-training laround-theffirst-of October, u i: 8 completing the training'for,the shift managersTon; thel 20th ofI d . October.and completi.sn of Category I tasks to be'done'before 9 1 re-start in the middle of November. [ 10 -l 1 'll ' I want to second what Lee _said, that_wo willcindeed 12 be responsive to' staff. comments and feedback that we receive ~ 1 3 13 from the NRC and will specificallyl address the' concerns that-

3 14 you have and will raise the plan in'a':livingfdocument..

i 15 In summary, it is.a: people problem. People 'are'the 16 secret to'the safe and excellent operation.of'a plant.- The 17 issues, I believe,-that have. emerged in the. discussion of our 1 18 filing so far very properly focus on tho'self identification-of l 19 problems-'and a culture _of excellence. q 20 'We have made the necessary management and. leadership,. 21 more~1mportant, leadership change,;at the plant, to create ai l 22 climate that will be conducive, both for identifying problems. 23 .and the willingness and ability to follow through on their 24 solution as your SALP report so: correctly' observes. -s' 25 The operator re-training is key and will continue 1 5Mi________._____..____.______.._____ i

.c 3 20; d 1 throughout tne plant including'non licensedLoperators and f. a ' ! i-2 support personnel. We have provided' te operatior career paths 3 that.will not-dead end them'in the operating room:and an' t 4 agr.asive program of new: operators. 5 . We are strengthening our nuclear support at the 7 .- 6 corporate level and I repeat.my.icommitment that-this?alsolwill- '7 be a continuing process.. 8: The plan is a;living document.. We1appreciatetyour: 9 feedback. 'We will incorporate your recommendations. We will: 10 not stop after the plant-gats re-started andiwe will-see that- -11 the job is done right'and'that every resource-of our '12 corporation is committed to doing it. 13 Now.I will.ask Dick Smith if.he1willt pick"up fromL 14 there and tell us what he has been involved in:at the plant. 15 MR. SMITH:- Thank you, Mr. Austin'. 16 Mr. Chairman,. Commissioners, I've been with'- j 17 Philadelphia Electricnow for just over four months. LI have 18 used that time to try to ensure that we fully understand the - ~ 19 extent of the situation at Peach Bottom. 'Obviously, the 20 problem is not confined to the three dozen licensie'd : operators 21 nor should corrective action be limited to those. operators. 32 I've read the reports ~of the Nuclear. Regulatory 23 Commission, the Institute of Nuclear Power Operation, the- .g 24 American Nuclear Insurers and the other agencies.. 1 -I'.ve studie'd 1 25 the plant organization and the existing improvement programs in I 1

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.,z. l' . place at Peach: Bottom andJI've walked'the plant'. Above all,gI~ g n.

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have talked'to' people,. corporate officials'and.the management 3' and workers at Peach Bottom. s .j 1 4 Based on my observations of,theLconditions'at ther .) 5 station, I'believe the commitment to excellence' action plan'is- ) 6 comprehensiveJand.will'ba the' vehicle for' great' improvement:at 7- ' Peach Bottom. i .] 8 I-found~at Peach Bottom a=physica1Lplant in' 1 9 satisfactory condition,fwith' ongoing'progr'amsjforfimprovement., p l With the exception of people.and procedures,zI believe all the' d j 10 11 trends are positive. I found at Peach Bottom a workforca who ~ 12 was somewhat demoralized and defensive.. They often~did-'not I 13 work well together_and the various groups >sometimesidid not ..s lJ \\ \\ l 14 cooperate. I found a satisfactoryslevel of competence'and.an-15 eagerness to start moving forw'ard.- 'They wereTready to be told 4 l-16 what directions to take. ' t' 17 Talking to the operators, I found,a worried group' i 18 with a sense of helplessness, who felt' management was. 19 abandoning them. .I again found quality ~and a great desire'to. 1 20 be allowed to show their readiness tx) meet any. standards set 21 and enforced by management. U 22 Eased on.my interviews 1with each licensed operator-23 .and my reading of the company's investigation,'I fully support 24 y the decision to replace the~ operations. management down1through 25 the shift superintendents and to train the other operators _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ - - - =~

i a J22 ] 1 prior to re-start. s a l 2-Thers is no Coubt!in myLmind'that all thetoperators; . 4 3 we use when re-starting 1will be fullyLknowledgeable of the'high! O 4 standards ~they must meet and will'be enthusiastic in meetingi' i 5. them. 'l 16 While I have been heavily. involved,eMr.' Chairman, 7 with our. procedures upgrade ~ program,'our radiation protectioni -) 8 program, and our radwaste program, which areithree' major. areas; 9 that need improvement before re-start, andLILhave'been" 1 10 monitoring our programs intall otherjareas,.'my primaryfemphasis-I ,\\ 11 has been on people, the organization and: communications. ,j 12 In the area of communications,fI think' Peach: Bottom I 13 ( lacked the mechanisms and att'itudes necessary to< encourage: 14 workers'to bring: problems to managements attention. !We. ware L o

• d 15 not only resistant to changes brought in byJoutsideHinfluences; 4

i 16 as Mr. Austin has said, but also did not encourage. change from

t H

17 within. ' l, 13 This lack of communication channels 'and resistance tcr 19 change led, I believe, to the NRC opinion of Peach-Bottom being- .1 20 unable to identify problems internally. I think we.are making) 21 progress to turn this'around. 1 r 22 I meet' weekly.with the shift operators and also 23. weekly with the senior station's staff, just to. keep them 24 informed and to listen to their comments and suggestions,. 25 I've had a "tell it to the manager"1 system in effect t s ~

23' I since early' July, wherein I receive about 50 comments a week. 1 e3 2 These range from petty-individual. complaints to very perceptive 3 and helpful comments'on the way we do business. A few have 4 reported situations which could affect safety. These I have-5 shared with the resident inspector. 1 I 6 We have just formed a plant committee to meet i 7 regularly and advise me of improvements we should be 8 ,considering. I see this as a valuable'early step in.a program i 9 of greater employee involvement. 10 We have tried to be more proactive with newly formed 11 or revitalized prchlem solving groups in such areas as plant housekeeping, radiation protection and radioactive waste. I 12 13 I think we now have open lines'of communication at j ) ~ 14 all levels at Peach Bottom and are' working much more as an 15 unit, whether we are a vendor or Philadelphia Electric, plant 4 16 staff or corporate staff. 1 17 Turning now to the operators and the operations 18 organization, there have been many changes made or planned at 19 Peach Bottom which should have.a positive.effect on 1 20 performance. Foremost among these, as mentioned, is the. 21 planned replacement of the shift superintendents with' shift. 22 managers. Each shift will bc headed by a degreed-enginesr,with 23 a senior license, The experience level of the candidates we 24 are planning to assign ranges from 6'to 13 years at Peach 25 Bottom. In concept, the shift manager will remain on shift 3 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ l1

_ j; x; c - - L24' +- r 4 i 1 to(5l years and will therefore notLbe!dependentLupon:the shift

1 fy q

1 2 hierarchy forThis' progressions.: The shift manager will.be f i truly in cliarge of the station:after hours andL on weekends.. 3 4' This will.be understood'by everyone'at)the station. d 5 The-individus1s Will receive'a',three week' tailored r 3 6-management course prior-to taking-over.their shifts., This c s i 7 . course is scheduled to'be. completed on October:17th. H 8 The licensed operators who willLbe assigned as] shift-supervisors'andreactor'operatbrawilleachhave> completed 1.a27 9 j 10 day course which we have entitled " People, the; Foundation of.' ) i 11 Excellence." ' This course'is non-technicallandLis_ intended'to-12 help the students better understand.themselves'and their. 13 relationships with others. The roles of out'id.eTagen'cies..andL s s' ~' ./ 14 the importance of-procedural compliance are alsoicovered..- '15 Twelve licensed operators and'three shift technical 16 advisors have completed that course. ~Another group.of 12 17 operators and 3 STAS are now intattendance.- Theicourse will be 18 conducted a third time for 7 operators who are presently in 19 training for their NRC license examination in October. All 20 Peach Bottom operators who are used for re-start will have' l 21-co'mpleted the course before 'be'ing assigned shifti duties.: 1 22 The operators who entered the " course we2/e selected 'by-23 me based'upon my interviews with them,Jmy' observations of them 24 on duty, reports of psychological interviews, reports.of their 25 previous' performance, my review of the company investigation 6,,.----------_,.,--__----,-----_--.--------------,----_-----s- ---a ---u_-.--

---

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i. ,g . j.l '{ t . i; ) i l l "f 25< ( 1

1 and their-willingness to_ volunteer t'o' work for; excellence.

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~'f, 2' a They have been closely' evaluated during'the(course by both: 3-management and'thei_ trainers. 4 We think the course has been successfuN in' improving 5-the operators' attitudes,;such that they will-willingly

• meet' 6

1 management's~ expectations. The operators'are enthusiastic and-7 only wonder why they.were not helped this.way before.: ~ 8 a Yottr staffiwill be conduc' ing an ' inspection,ef thatl

j t

L 9 training next week. 10-On completion of-the operator and shift manager / y 11-training,7we will form the operating teams to be used forLre- -j 12 start. We are presently determining'whetheriwe willHbeLon five' l .m 13 or six shifts. 'We would prefer six shifts foriflexibility,ybut; A e / 14 we may have to go to five br some: months. "In'sither_ case, the:- 3 15 operating-teams will train on the LimerickJsimulaterfand will? S ( 16 be observed in daily pre-start up testing in the plant.. Nb.en d l 17 we request authority.to re-start, we will have' trained teams: ') 18 that meet all technical specifications. As.thelnumberof M 19 licensed operators permit, we intend to assign an1 extra reactor 20 operator and an extra senior reactor operator to each shift for 21 greater flexibility. i 22 'To' move to'th'is goal, we hava:recentlyLhired 15 new. 1 23 helpers, all df'whom met higher qualification standards'than 24 previously required. 14 were ex-nuclear Navy and one had two "h 25 years'of college and one year at Peach Bottom. We.beganja s

26 1 class for 16 reactor operator candidates on August 3rd from 2 among our non-licensed operntore. We have also contracted with 3 General 21ectric for the services of four reactor operators who 4 are preseatly scheduled for an NRC examination in January. 5 Additionally, our co-owner has provided three reactor 6 operators frem Hope Creek to assist us in the area of work 7 control. That is writing work permits and tagging systems for 8 maintenance. 9 In the past, Peach Bottom has been short of both } 10 licensed and non-licensed operators. This will r.ot be the case 11 in the future, but it will be several months before we can ( 12 produce the desired number of licensed operators. This s, 13 chortage of operators had led to the view of the operators that ( l 14 there was no way~for off-shift work and increased their 15 separation from management. 16 In the organization changes we are proposing for 17 Peach Bottom _, there will be several lateral off-shift positions 18 for licansed operators fer periods ranging from months to ~ 19 years. There will also be permanent promotional pocitions.off-20 shift for the best performers. These positions will serve to 21 bring the operators into management. Again, it will be some 22 time before these positions can be fully staffed. 23 other significant organizational changes being 24 ~ planned in operations are the assignment of an operations 25 support group and acsignment of floor foremen. The support

i t. I-27-L 1-group will be headed by a senior engineer:who will have-a. -i ) i t 2 technical staff. Their functionLwill befto reduca.the 3 administrative burden on the cperators andito assist in overall 4 work planning. The floor foremen will provide leadership to 1 i 5 the non-licensed operators that has been missing.previously. 6 overall, Mr. Chairman, we believe.that the 7 organizational changes we envision will help'us ensure high I 8 otandards of performance at Peach Bottom. 9 'I have dwelled on the licensed-operator-training and. 10 on the organizational changes'in operations. We fully realize s 11 the problem is not isolated to the operators. We will also-12 conduct training for the others and are looking at other organizational changes beyond operations. j 13 j 1 14 In addition, there are'many areas.not touched upon at' 15 all this afternoon such as security, which are be'ing looked- ] 16 into and improved as part of the commitment to'excellenca 17 action plan. 18 As Mr. Austin said in his comments,-this plan is. net 19 a re-start plan. It is Philadelphia Electric Company's 20 commitment to excellence. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you very much. 23 MR. EVERETT: That completes our presentation, Mr. 24 Chairman. 25 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you very much. Questions from

u x H 1 E 73; } 'l imy' tallow. Commissioners? Commissioner Bernthal? l, . 2' COMMISSION 2R BERNTHAL:- Let me_ask.a question ~or two, 1 ' 3 about-the re-start plan that-youfsubmitted,..since you ended d 4 your presentation discussing'the numbar.ofLshifts and the J L 5 manning of shifts, I'd like to touch:enithac first. L

I agree-6 with you that is a key issue here'.

7 Assuming'that you were permittedLto proceedIto ra-8 start any' time in tha nearlfuture,.the next few weeks, what is' i 9 i the exact status of your manpowerleituation? I-seem to recall' .I there was;a question of some long~ standing:of a1 great-Ldeal of. h 10 H q 11 overtime by shift operators, by.the plant operators.; Islthere j i 12 any prospect that problem will'be~ redressed before'you re-start l -s 13 7-I ( ) or are you going to go throughianother period of some. months of' d 14 the same stuff, with' people being= asked'to' work'large numbers / 15 of hours, perhaps shift rotations not b,4ng what'they should. y a 16 be? 17 Can you elaborate a little bit on that? l 18 MR. SMITH: <Let me talk aboutLthe specific numbers, 19 Commissioner. We have presently 15 reactor operators inIthe 20 re-training program, that have either completed it"or are going 21 through the training program. If we go'backLand start up'with 22 .five shifts, that would be~the; required ~three operators:per, j 23 shift with no excess, but would.indeed be the required numbar i 24 per shift. t 25 We have nine senior reactor operators.that a're going ,___.__u--.__.-__- -__--_~---__-_____-_--____-__-____a_

a. 29. 1 through~the re-training program. Again, if we went:back on L' ( l-2 with the required' number of senior licenses,'that would be one C 3 per shift required. We would.have in excess of-that. We would s' sj 4 hope to be able to man two per shift. This, o2 course, islin 5 addition to the shift manager. 6 We have seven operators in training at the pres'entf 7 time to take the examinations in October. Three candidates for senior reactor operators and four candidates for reactor 8 9 operaters. That would be the-nearest relief-for.mo're 10 operators. 11 General. Electric's four candidates for reactor, 12 operators will take their examinations in January.-.That would-13 be the next relief.

j

('~, 14 Assisting us even nowlare three operators from Hope 1 15 Creek, who are of course not plant. licensed and cannot stand 16 watch on the plant, but are assisting us in the. administrative-17 areas that have drained time from people before, and for which 18 we have used a large amount of overtime to man those 19 administrative positions. 20 We will not be totally relieved of the situation that 21 has led to use of overtime until we have an excess number =of 22 operators. We will have more than the technical specification 23 requirements. We should be able to control overtime better. 24 I believe a review of the overtime used by the s licensed operators over the past several months would show you ^ 25

30. r 1-that the. average used'by a routine watch standing operator:is (3 2 in the-neighborhood of 50 to 53 hours a' week. However,;tbe. s 3 problem is more that some of them are very high1and some:are-4: .lcwer than that. We need to take control of this and' manage 5-the overtime. I think we can doLthat. 6 MR. EVERETT: One additional ~ factor.- When we go back 7 to operations, we will have'ene unit shut downifer a-l'ong B reactor piping replacement. We will only be talking about one: -9 operating-unit and one unit in cold shutdown, which changesEthe l-l 10 figures of the people that we would-like to have on shift. l { 11 MR. AUSTIN: For almost a year. 12 1 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: ItLsounds like what you are 13 (-') saying, perhaps because of the last point here, is'the. ,.s 14 situatien from the time of start up will be.better than it had 15 been historically. 16 MR. SMITH: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: You will not have'the large 18 ' amount of. overtime being worked'by the operators ~.. Is that a 19 fair statement? I 20 MR. AUSTIN: But not where we want to be, not where i 21 ve want to ultimately be when we complete the program of' 22 operator re-training ~to get reserve operators. 23 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: I would encourage you to do-24 everything you can to expedite that. I think it should be a 25 six shift operation, as quickly as you can manage that. I l 1 a

e s a 'l' 31 2. 1 I was concerned a-little bit aboutithe fact that your-h 2-plan here lists as Category III, HChangesLin~ Organizational 3 Structure for Senior Management," and how they-fit into'the 4 organizational chain and how they report. 5 I would have thought by now that would'have been a 6 major issue that would have been resolved. Has it been l 7 resolved and why is that considered Category III?- 8 MR. SMITH: I think Mr.JAustin commented on that in 9 his openinn remarks. 70 MR. AUSTIN: Let me elaborate. -First of all, our 'i 11 finding was that the immediata root ca6se, as I mentioned-1 12 earlier, is people. That is the immediate thrust. 13 With respect to organization, we made~a major. change-14 just three months before the_ shutdown, and I would submit to. ~ -you that it was too soon to have really shown itsffull effect- '( 15 1 16 but as I watch it day by day, it is having increasing effect. i 17 That is why I went into some detail to point-out that the 18 structural changes we made in the'latter part of 1986, bringing _ 19 all nuclear operations,. engineering and support under-a single 20 executive, breaking down the maintenance,_ instrument, test and 21 construction groupo so that the nuclear resources are committed 22 full time to a nuclear plant or plants or specialty. 23 Those have all been done. They are things that if we 24 hadn't done back last year, would be at the topoof the pile. 25 3 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: The point I would focus on 1 l

+ (32 t 1 . and perhaps I' didn't quite Lget the.pointL whenEyou summarized-

l rw --

Y I' 2 earlier, is 'that the(question. of whether~ you needLadditional . 1 ~ 3-personnel, additional managementiin the: chain?ofl command, I T4 would assume, sincetyou have addressed the people questions as i

5

' opposed to. organizational: chart questions,'that.has:been looked' '6 at carefully. '7 'MR. AUSTIN: That is a good question. p t be sayLyes '8 and no. One of the items that is on theLtask: list onJthe MACL 9-Report and'a recommendation to us is1that. longer <run,[thattis ) 10 what Category III-is, we should look'further at the' i

a s

11 organizational structured number.of layers:betweenisenior-y 12 management and the plant. We are committed;to do that. :That 1 .s 13 is a Category III task. .." \\ ( 14 In fact, it does not find any-fault'with'the basic-4 15 structure, other than maybe we need less layers. On-the-other 16 side of the. coin, which is near'termLat the plant,.which is 17 both the number of people and the structured. organization-at 18 the plant that Dick Smith has,'that is~very much'at'the topfof-19 the plate today. 20 MR. SMITH: I think those specific itemsLare-lab'eled 21' Category II in that we may no6 be able to fully? implement them 22 by the time of re-start, but those key positions will be i 23 identified and we will have hired or be hiring'the key players. 24 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: On the management question, 25 this is not an_ easy ~ question to answer, I'm sure, and it is 1

33 l

1 difficult even~in' hindsight, can-somebodyLgive me'an estimate-fd y I " ~' 2 of how you found yourselves in this-situation. to begin with? .3 .You and some of our people have looked:rather-4 carefully by now at how you got in this spot.. Mow-doesLit 5 happen that an operation where we already" knew'there were some-6 management difficulties before this' incident,~and I.think you 7 were aware of that, continues onward;to the point whereifrankly- .i .l it is an embarrassment and endangerment toTthe entire nuclear 8 ? 9 enterprise in this' country,Llat alone to.the.particulay: 1 10 interests of your utility.. How did you get there?.Who was'it' 11 that wasn't talking to subordinates or to' superiors? 12 MR. EVERETT : Good question.- John? 13 MR. AUSTIN: It is tough. I think callingLa spade a. (")' 14 spade, you have to start with the Plant Manager at theitime. I 15 Having been a superintendent, out'in a1 power plant-myself, I 1 16 think one of the primary requirements oflthe. command'ingfofficer l 17 or the manager of the-plant is to know'what is going on in his ] 18 plant. That wasn't happening. We weren't hearing about it. 1 il 19 I would also have to say and in this shoulder some of 20 the blame myself, that I was becoming increasingly aware that 21 the management team at the plant from a people ~ management d 22 standpoint was not coming up to the standards'we thought was 23 necessary and had begun to make some management changes. 24 In.the year before the shutdown, we had an 25 opportunity to make a swap, taking an experienced person from _ l

- 3 4' -1 . Limerick into Peach Bottom and get some cross fertilization, t'%

f' 2

which remember, up until.just a year or two"ago, this was the 3 only plant on the system and.with plant. specific licenses 4 required, you couldn't do rotation,-which is the'way.you' cross l 5 fertilize to prevent ingrown bad habits. We did that. 6 We also took the manager from the Limerick" Power ~ i 7 Plant after~it was re-started'and brought him into-the' direct-l -l 8 line of generation management, to' help this manager tryJto: 9 overcome some of the problems. 10 I would have to say I.saw probimus there. I.did not 11 percei"e the severity or conceive the severity of them. ,'t 1 12 MR. EVERETT:' There are some other circumstances-that- .l \\ 13 are very difficult to say how important they were, the morale, '~ l 14 the attitude of the personnel at the plant,-but one of them is 15 the fact that the plant is an old plant, by comparison to 16 Limerick. Limerick, obviously being a high' population density 17 plant, got an awful lot of attention. When you are the first 18 child and the second one is getting all the attention, you kind 19 of feel second class. It shouldn't have been, but I'm sure. 20 that played some part in the attitudeLchange in the personnel. I j 21 We moved a number of people from Peach Bottom, 22 operating personnel, to Limerick, to staff that' plant. That-23 meant faster promotion. Some of the people who were not-24 selected to go to Limerick were a bit disgruntled. They felt m., 25 they had been promised an opportunity to go to Limerick and it 1 ~ ' '

I ~35 1 'waslbeing denied to them. ,m i 2 How big.a factor that was, I don't know.'<There were: 3 a number of those kinds ofLfactors. .The feeling of 4 particularly the shift superintendents,Lthat there was no way: 5 off-shift. These are very senior operators, highly technically / 6 competent, who have studied all their lives, passedLtheir tests 7 with flying colors every time, and they'could see~no way off-L 8 shift. That was a deficiency. in 'tte management of our: 9 operation and we are going to correct that. 10-Thaye are many contributing factors to'a morale 11 situation that'perhaps you'can'tl quantify by theinumbers,.'but i i 12' they do play a contributing rolb. 13 I COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: ' 'I;would agree alliof those R 'l I l 14 things must have contributed. I.would hope that.the program 15 you have outlined is going to be more than' aggressive =in-1 16 affecting some change. Particularly on the' issue of the; dead' J 17 end status for plant operators. If there is one thing that has 18 come out increasingly, just in the time I've been on this 19 Commission, it is how detrimental.that:can be to the attitudes 1 20 of the operators. 21 These are some of the most valuable. people,;as:you-22 know, peoplefwith. plant' operations experience, and,they ought 23 to be the people you are looking to when you start searching. 24 for utility leadership in the years ago. 25 MR. AUSTIN: There are two critical things youTneed. l \\ -___--_____Q

+ q 1 q 136 ~ h 4. 1 thereiand'I1 totally' agree.' Number:one'isiyou nen'd;a. carefully, j m l 2 structured program so.thatiyoW hava jobs,to move theselpe~ople. f to, but you better also;have'in-place;a'. continuing trainingL ]\\ 3 t 4 \\ program for~a~ supply of freshnew:oper'etors' coming;1up' tot j a 5 replace them, or'you are never going to remove'them.: Both;of. 1 q l 6 those are key elements as. Dick Smith outlined, Vin approaching. 1 l

n. y

) 7 the people problem at;the plant.. t 3 j l 3, .L )? 8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: oLat-ma,,ask one'o#~ther.q;uestion, j 4 j 'p . ij di ) 9 that is off the personnel issue, and'then I will giv'e'mye r h 10 -colleagues a crack.- J ,f V: ' d e 11 f You have been shut Mown now for..saveral months,-I l 12 guess. I would assume that itheral ara flotsJof things' L even i l n-13 though the plant, as'you say, the. plant" hardware isl.in' good 14 condition, that there :is: a great :daal of maintenance Lactivity i 3 9: 15 that could have been carried out profitably during that peNioc'. 1 4 M a Would you care to outline'what'thaf'st'tus of your [y 16 a 3 1 i l 17 maintenance ~ program is right:now,Lwhat have you been-doing in-L 3 la the last several months in the maintenance araa?. I e, 'p' 4- ,3 d 19 MR. KEMPER: ' ;m. As an overview, as a Wesult of;bting. 3 20 shut down, we looked at our preventive maintenance; program. LWe; l 21 had. started one and as you'know, most.of the' industry,;because/, t 22 of the way.thingsfare, the; preventive maintenance program's;do ~ 23 not get the full attention they should. Here was a golden i 24 opportunity for us to launch our, preventive' maintenance 6, s 25 program. We are-doing that. We are lo'oking at where the res a i .__L

C 37-11-of the industry is'and trying'to get us;tolbe better than the- .,s l' 2 industry. 3~ .We-looked'at thel 11mit-torque ~ motor operated-valves.- ~4. .There is a' generic problem'and then there-isJa thing. called [. 5 MOVATING. We are doing more'nowithan-~is required.: All thoset 6 -valves that-are in,the containment,athat we'wouldn't get at ~ 7 7 chance to do, we are doing1those now: while weLare-shut down. 8' -one:of the most aggressive things weLareadoinghis:a 9 campaign to recapture those: parts?of the plantcthat became 10 contaminated during our l'ong outages. We are tryingLto get 11 those areas cleaned up,.get:those.' areas that are Iowilevel-12 contamination'but contaminated, clean them up, paint;them,:get 13 ( them ready and recapture that area soLwe try to enhance and" 14 improve our ALARA program. 15 While we were down, it was a. golden opportunityLto.do-m 16 our human factors work'on the Unit II'controlfboards. This has. 17 been'an evolutionary program'looking at how'to improve thei 18 operator / man-machine interface.. As.you'know, we have the new; 19 human factors standards. We are now. incorporating.them'on Unit 20 II where we would not'have done that until-the'next.re-fueling. 21 outage. We will have that when~we.go'back. L 22 We are'.looking all across the board to try[to s 23-incorporate all those changes. One'of the'most.important 24 programs we have is to one, establish'a;very firm,; limited 25 discipline policy for what goes intotthe areas to limit the' h i ..g

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.oy" c ,2 enhanci,ng and1 improving'ouk':radwaste'handlin. ...M, 3 J g 'to redut:e the - 9 W 9 e, amount of'radyastia gy;the!abarpelerwe;have'arou. ~ 3: nd the. lace p We p 't have' a 'veiy, vdryj}trong commitwent to :ha.ve UAt doi %to 'an ; g ~( ' - - s' s _. h, 4- ) N ifI yy established leved that Ishave'riaid we vill be down>balow before, 5 f i .. ? - ~ ' j y 'j 6 we.gibac h , I, [a 'g. s; l'L i 7 ' g y; M

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j . Here is :n g'blden opportunity shen lwe arcynbt.#,. .y. j 'V ( F f-(' a, .t o ,I < {}.,. ' g '8 ' ' h,. ,I.' generatigg that much-radwaste to cl'asn'up;th;at radwaa,..#ta and get-l y ou 3 e a '9 .it do , h k 1 'l s .)- t*f a' level.- On-site, ;we. are dohlg# thingsfandut-osfL( cJ ) 1 p& y 10 water /eyapoxstion arid. compection. We also;have'now 'installadia j s J, 4 'L <J k. f 11 .new de inataring systemtso.'we will he E le'tofh$ve bettert.c. 3 n v ' f l 12 l radwasta and,radf6 active ~ ship { ment of our resin,., , e n. => y. ) 7 - n; 3 13 .p Those are a flow of trla highlightil'of. the thirigs..we (~, oj , u .g 14 areLdojpg. Yes, we,.sthpped. back, in 1boked at.sverything 'we-i .7 1 0 g could.get whileithis' operator training' program'was goingJon, ,) 15 1,. ' (v whatcireall,ti[athingswecan;dototrytcM.enhanceand' improve.. 16 t y 3 a 4 = 17 the plant, so{ sed.avethebestplantwecan"inthet'imaperied', l / ,I 4 i .- t 4 18 allowed to get back. \\- / + jf' O e 'j < (J, f r 19 f O' .Allof thess planse the training and ths retrofit, } e s y j 20 recapture and what not' a a all fit into.a time periedl,.say by'mid-l L 21 November, we would be in a position to?be in darn good'shaps to l j l 22 go back. t h a-

23-Y l

COMMISSI'ONER)BERNTHAL: /How-manylopen maintenance; !T l 24 items do you have at this point? ,-[b 3 l 25 ip t MR. KEMPER: The Iverall program,;I;think it'is J-J + ,p y ' i o' r; -l i; t,' F E ,[} ,; l.h

• 0 l7 F

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i .q 391 t W 1 something like 1,500. COMMISSIOhERBERNTHAL: t 2 How many would you expect to { 3 have'when you would-be prepared for re-start? l 4 MR.'KEMPER: We are shooting for down below-1,000. -5 One of the things thattis. happening to us~is we are,doing-:thisl 6 paint, clean up, sparkle. plenty, this positive approach, we: are m 7 generating a lot more. problems.that the fellows see now that. D 8 they would like to have incorporated.. In the last several" H 1 9 weeks, we have generated 500 more what we call'MRS,-maintenance ,{ i 10 request forms,'that have come through. d 11 ' We were capturing it~very well'. Now=we have~a new 12 intensity, a new interest, let's clean:it.up, let's get'it. 13 really right, let's go on'with the maintenance program, let's { .i k"3 I expand it into a greater area, and.weLare generating more.- 'l 14 15 I think it.is a good' sign. We are. shooting for that 16 target. I meet with the fellows onia-periodic basis to see-17 where we are, what our program is and what our target is. 1 I 'am 1 18 very pleased with the way we are moving.- 19 COMMISSIONER BERhfMAL: I'm'not' surprised,you.are t 20 ganerating more. Have you categorized this' list of,1,500-21 items? 22 MR. KEMPER: Yes; we have. I can't do it for you! 1 23 here, but we have categorized them. 24 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: How many of them are 25 essential in your judgment before re-start? 1

40 ) 1 .MR. KEMPER: The ones that are essential, we'have j s 2 already captured them. Now, it is staying current. We are ) y 3 categorizing them and everybody today puts'everything.into a 4 computer tracking system. Now, we have a computer tracking 5-maintenance program, preventive maintenance program, where we 6 can stay on top.of it. We have a managed goal and target to { 7 ~ stay on, not just go and catch it as you can because that 8 system is out of service. 9 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: The. computer managed system ) 10 is new as of when? l { 11 MR. KEMPER: We have been developing it for the-last '1 l l 12 year or so. ] 13 ( l COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:- I would just comment. I 'I 14 don't know, becaqse you haven't said what the categories of j 15 maintenance items Are, in many respects, I would view you now i i 16 as we might a new plart about to start. We don't have 1,000 { 17 items when we allow a new plant to start up. If anything, you 18 should be better than a new plant because your maintenance 19 should have been ongoing. 20 I would urge before you consider re-start ~ that list 21 be whittled down considerably. 22 I think right'now, that is all I have. I may_have 23 one or two more before we stop. 24 C73IRMAN ZECH: Commissioner Carr? 25 COMMISSIONER CARR: I need a little mora explanation b

. 41. .1 on your-27 day attituc".nal change program. My'experienceLis it' ,a '2 is pretty hard to change attitudes in 27 days. 3 MR. SMITH: I fully agreei! Commissioner. We are j '4 trying to help the people-see where the attitudes"cculd ber 5 chan'ged, trying to help them understand themselves and-6 understand their working relationships with other people, 7; understand the.importence of-the NRC,.INPO,'the)outside 8 organizations. It is' going.to.take some time to~ determine H 9 whether the attitudes have really changed.- i 10. COMMISSIONER'CARR: Have any;of you audited this to. 6 t 11 see what it is we are teaching?. 12 MR. SMITH: -Yes. 13 MR. EVERETT: ( .\\ Lat.me make one comment,<which I think 7 14 is indicative of the kind of people-that wa have. 'We talked.to I 15 former Peach Bottom operators who operat( Limerick andithey say' 16 .that Peach Bottom is Peach Bottom and-Limerick is Limerick and 17 the move from Peach Bottom to Limerick was like moving from-18 night to day. In other words, they didn't have any. trouble-19 changing their. attitudes, from a-Peach Bottom attitude-to a 20 Limerick attitude, if they had the proper leadership. If they 21 understood what was required of them'and-thatLthey were'heldL '22 accountable. I've' heard that more than once. 23 COMMISSIONER CA'RR:..Maybe we ought to rename the 24 plant. 25 MR. EVERETT: I wish it were that simple.

]) ,y E ., m. q L42 - ]j 'l-COMMISSIONER CARR:: The'second.que'ation is on your QA. l3 ~ 2 -program.- You didn't mention much'about an emphasis'on-QA-and ] J that'is a big part,of the: plan. 'I'm not aware of-what.went on. j q 3 4 in that area. i 5. MR.-SMITH: Inreally' haven't been. working on the QAL H =.1 6 aspects. I think'Mr. Gallagher'could~ speak tojthat. 1 i 7 [ Commissioner.Bernthal-left theTroom at 3:02;p.m.] -{ .l- 'i 8 MR. GALLAGHER:' Weididlnot haveLQA people' assigned to: 1 L l 9 the shift before the' shutdown.: We are'.in;the process of. ? training. people now to be'on shift so there will:be a:QA-i lo ) l 11 presence there reporting back to the superintendent who. reports' l 12 'directly to me. They will have a' specific' program of .g 13 monitoring to do in the operation as well'as the rest of the ? l 14 plant. This is something we have not had:in the past.- It.is-15 an overview of areas of the plant operation we just'never h'ad: ') l 16 before.

i 17 COMMISSIONER CARR: 'Is he QA'ing the people as well.

la as the machinery and equipment? 19 MR. GALLAGHER: Yes,. sir. 20 COMMISSIONER CARR:. Kind of an.on.s'hift policeman?1 21 MR. GALLAGHER: He's an on shift reviewer-of what is, 22 going on. 23 MR. KEMPER: An on shift referee. In the past,.our-l I 24 QA programs of operation have been on an audit basis, not on 25 line,' watching the performance basis. This is going to'ba like

i l 43-1 the referee on the playing field, seeing that the performance q'o 2 and procedures and everything are being followed. It is not 3 going to be a continuous basis. There will be areas of l 4 4 radwaste that he will observe, areas of chemistry in the j .i 5 control room, it will be across the plant. The fellows will be I i 6 on_ shift and they will have a planned program that they,will 7 know and they will go and do their auditing. l 8 I don't know -- 9 COMMISSIONER CARR: Must be what I know as a monitor 10 watch. 11 MR. SMITH: It looks like an extended' monitor watch. 12 COMMISSIONER CARR: I understand that. ~ 13 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Let me just say from my standpoint, 14 this is one of the most serious meetings we have had since I 15 have been on this commission for this past three years. It is 16 t troubling; very troubling, at least to me, to realize that we j 17 could have such a breakdown in discipline and the respect'for i q 18 authority and understanding of their commitment to safety as 19 you have had, Mr. Everett, at'your Peach Bottom plant. 20 [ Commissioner Bernthal entered the room at 3:05 p.m.] 21' CHAIRMAN ZECH: I have visited a lot of plants in our ~ l 22 country, more than 80 of them. I have visited a lot of plants 23 overseas. Whenever I visit the plants, I spend some time with 24 the plant management. I spend some time with the operators. 25 In my view, most of our operators are good across the country.

E

44=

l' If_there is any difference'in the' operators, it.has d .h i j)! ~2-lbeen my experience it is because of management.. Whena plant - c is managed properly from the top down,~ your.. operators are. 3 4 generally. pretty good, maybe a little-better. When you.have-5 management problems, the operators have morale-problems,' thera l 1 6 are problems of their understanding.of:their position"in(the-7 ' organization. -The. operators: reflect _the: management'. q 8 You are here_today, in'my.. view --Lyou;have told-us' ? ~9-about your_ problems, quote, "at the plant,"' unquote. 'IL b 1 10 understand that. But I would. submit that your corporate' d -i 1 11 management problems are just as serious. I thihk thatLthe fact 12 that you didn't know what was going on is very1 serious. Either. 13 . (s] you knew'it and you condoned it, which apparently you didn't, ~ 14 .or you didn't know it at all. In any case,:either onefis 15 serious. 16 The fact'that we could have a-situation like=this 17 existing in one of our plants in our country.is very, very 18 serious. i' I 19 Now what are we' going to do about it? What.are;you' 20 going to do about it? . q 21 You've told us here today some of1your Commitment to' 22 Excellence Plan. You've told us about a lot of-things, iI, 23 agree _the root causes, you look at people and you-look at-24 management, but what does that really mean? You've got to get x i 25 the next layer. What does that mean? What are your real m I

I 1 45 1 commitments to excellence? What are your real commitments to 'N t 2 turning this around? l 3 Just because it's an old plant, that doesn't impress 4 me. We have old plants that operate very well. We have new 5 plants that operate some better than others. But the old plant 6 has nothing to do with it. i 7 You've had an attitudinal problem there, it looks i 8 like, for a long time, and you didn't know anything about it. l l 9 To me, it really is serious, and I don't know what to say here 10 at this table today, except that we need to look at it very, f I 11 very carefully. You need to convince this Commission, give us l { 12 the confidence that you, as a CEO, and your organization and 13 your whole team should be able to operate this plant. ~ O' 14 We are responsible to the American people, this 15 Commission, and I intend to carry out my responsibilities, and ( 16 I know my fellow Commissioners do, too. The public trusts us. I 17 We are their servants, and we're going to be the best servants j 18 to those people that we can. l

• j 19 1

And it seems to me that you, when we issue you a l i 20 license, you accept the trust and confidence of the American l i 21 people to operate that plant properly. You haven't done so. 22 It's a very serious situation as far as I'm concerned, and I i 23 just don't know what else to say to you here today, except that 24 I need personally to hear from you more than I've heard today. 25 I need results. i ___m

4g, 1.

You've got a.Cecmitment to Excellence 1 Plan.. 2 Certainly some of-the' things you've; told uF appear'to be the T; right things.to do. But we need to'see-results. I need to see, 3 4 resulta. I'm not going to accept.what you've told,me'todayfand 5 be anywhere=near authorizing your plant to restart. I don't' 6-know about my fellow Commissioners, but:I'm not ready 1to.. -I. 7' need results. 8 Part of the problem, als far as'I.can see,-.-is 9 leadership,'right from the top down.. I mean.that. You'veLhadL 10 a serious situation.go onLfor.a number of years, it--looks like- -11 There has been a concern about'it,.andinow we find' complete 12 inattention to duty, as you have acknowledged-yourself. It's 13 just not acceptable. 0 ( ) ' ~ 14 There is no secret'to much of this-nuclear business, 15 except for hard work, discipline, attention to; duty,' competent 16 performance, follow procedures, a real honest-to-God-commitment 17 to safety. Those are the things that are kind of basic ~ 18 characteristics, as far as I can understand,-a real interest in 19 technical competence and following out your' duties. 20 So-just-at the plant'is not good:enough;for me. Your 21 operators certainly made mistakes; there's no question about 22 that. And they have licenses by us,-too, and I want'to: hear 23' from our Staff as to how they're going to. handle that 24 situation. ~ 25 But you have a license, your company has.a license- 'l ) -=

."W

47' 1~

from this' Commission on behalf ~of the American Government-and s 'M d-2 the American people, and we have'a right,.an obligation,Ja 3 responsibility, to'be-. confident that youiwill carry..outtthat 4. responsibility that you hava.- You.are the plant operator;L 5 we're the regulator. fWe provide the framework.of; rules and-a 1 6 . regulations and.do the best'we can.to. provide.protectionJof thes ] 7 'public health and safety. w .8 You oparate the plant; you constructsh.iti;yo'u; ) ( 9 maintain it; you operate the plant.- 4And we can't have plants ) .10 where there is this much11 attentiveness:to anything. 1 11 1 So what confidence do we have that'it',s. going /toL l j 12 change? That's what I need to know. 13

s

( Your Shift Manager Program, we've. talked about'that ~ 14 at this table many times. It just depends on how you execute 15 it. Maybe it's all right; maybe'it isn't. ItLdoesn't' impress. l 16 me too much. ll 17 Is he going to.have an SRO license? 18 MR. EVERETT: Yes, sir.. 19 CHAIRMAN ZECH: What kind of'esperience is'he really! 20 going to have? Is he~ going to be. ode of your competent people 21 that really knows that planti or is he_just going.to be:a" 22 _ management person going through the phase of checking'off an 23 box? s -24 That's up to you. You can tell ms all. kinds of: ~N t 25 things.about the Shift Management thing. I've' looked ^into it-

48-1 -myself before, too. Maybe it's fine, and maybe it isn't. nit n )- 2 depends'en how you execute _theLplan. -It' depends on how.you-3 ~ really use.that manager. Is_he going'to be: respected,byythe 4 operators or not? If.he can't communicate with:them, it 5 doesn't work, in my judgment. 6 So that's up to youk But-I've heard'ajlotEof your. 7 thoughts today on things you're. going to'do,.and I' guess 1I'm 7 8 just going to have.to wait and see what the.results?are. But1 9 you've got a long way to go, in myLjudgments i .hi l 10 MR. EVERETT:.May'I respond?- 8 ,t 11 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Planse.- 12 MR. EVERETT: We accept-your criticism. Itiisn'ti 13 0 easy to look ati a plant like -Peach Bottom and a plantilike L 14 Limerick and explain to yourself why onalis"so. good and one-has-15 deteriorated. Peach Bottom wasn't always bad. lit'algone 16 downhill in the last several years..And,our problem was not: 17 seeing the severity of that slidirg-and doing something about 18 it. We thought we were addressing-the problem. 19 We had two extensive programs that wa spent _many, 20 many thousands of hours on. 21 CHAIRMAN ZECH: But you didn't get'downfto the root 22 causes. 23 MR. EVERETT: But we really didn't get to'the root 24' causes, which was the leadership of people, and we have_-- w 1 25 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Well, it's a breakdown. It's not k h

i 49: o 1 just those peopic at the plant. i 'r~s.) 2 MR. EVERETT: I understand that.- j 3 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Something happened ~that you didn't' 1 4 know about. That's the important thing. { 1 5 MR. EVERETT: Enti' rely for other reasons, we've'had^a-6 complete change, as I~ described, between the Prosident of the-7 company all the way.down to the operators on shift. l 8 Now we have two new Vice. Presidents,'who are.v.ery. j i 9-e*Jpsrienced in this business,- They realize.the problem they've i i L 10 got at Peach Bottoa,'and they're going to bend'every effort to '} .1 correct ths kind'of leadership that we havn throughout the l 12 corporation. ) 13 CHAIRMAN ZECH: I hear you, and as I say,.I need l ~' 14 results. I mean, you know, I've got to see results, and you 15 mean to show me them. Next week would not be good enough for 16 me. i I need to see what ;rou're really doing and be confident 17 that you're on track. 18 MR. EVERETT: We h6pe to be able to do that. 19 CHAIRMAN ZECH: All right. I' hope so, too. 1 20 COMMi'SSIONER CARR: Well, I share'the Chairman's 21 . concern in that I don't see a mechanism that's going to tell 22 you when Limerick starts bad yet. I see that you're changing i -23 to fix Peach Bottom, but somewhere there's got to be a } 24 -I mechanism, so that when Limerick starts downhill, you'll know 1 25 it first. - - - - - - - - - ' - - " ~

50 I 1 MR. EVERETT: 'Yes, you're right, and we are'looking- .y 2 very hard at how others in the nuclear business manage all of,, their affairs and what checks and balances,they have in to l 3 1 '4 ferret out when leadership is weak, andfthat's what we're 5 talking about, wherever it's weak. And:we're not going to rcst j 6 with this plan to restart Limerick. We're.goingLto. change 7 eventually the way we manage our whole nuclearLoperation.- j i 8 Now I can't tell-you when or=how we're going to do 9 that. . e're going to study.every, system we'canJfind that'has W lo meritLand come up withLour own; plan that hopefully will prevent 1 11 any recurrence either at Peach Bottom or at Limerick of tne. 12' problems. .3 l ( ') 13 We know we can manage some. thing well. 1tt's'just a: j ' ~ ' 14 natter of making sure that we're on. top of it, so that it 15 doesn.'t get out of kilter as-this one did, i 16 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Well, we'll tertainly want-to hear 17 from you again before we?re ready for restart. 18 MR. EVERETT: Very good, sir.. 19 CHAIRMAN ZECH: And then I would ask the. Staff to 20 come forward, unless my fellow Commissioners have anything I 21 else. 22 COMMISSIONER BERNTRAL:. I just want to-second'What 23 the Chairman has said. He has stressed the point and I would 24 restress it that -- in fact, he stressed it earlier in theLday -si 25 -- that in-this business more than ever before, when you get a.

a fil ' r 1, . license and when the individuals in,your pisnt get a license,, 2 you've made a kind of compact and 'ommitment1 here withiths' < ~ c 3 American' people, and at that point, particularly today!.1 I don't < UI 4 much care about the utility';1we'all care about the safety of. 5 this enterprise and the larger public' good.and seeing-this'

i 6

enterprise succeed safsty,.if that3s possible,-'and I? think the c., o 7 experience we've.had in your plant!has been to'the detriment [of.;, 8 that overall public effort.- =I 4 9. I would just again stress two or three particulars 3 10 from what I've heard here today,':and tho' Staff wSilitell' us' 11 more, I think. It's clear to.me.that'yeu need>to placeispecialt 1 1 l 12 emphasis on retraining people and on training, people,Lan'd it's l t } 13 not clear to me that you're going to be there4yet'in'the month-j 14 of October or November. 15 I'm concerned about shift staffing,.as I. mentioned 16 earlier, and whether you really do have'an adequate' staff.- .It l. 17 seems to me you ought.to be somewhere above adequacy befora-you' 18 come in for a restart. 19-I'm also concerned about maintenance. A' fear lago,l' 20 you put into process a progran of maintenance,.particularly for 21 a plant as old, as you point out, as this one and for aicompany; 22 with the tradition'and the expertise that your' company bas. ~ 23 You're one cf the first in this business, and I would have 24 thought would have been there a long time ago. 25 So I would urge that you take a very hard look while

1 o..- .1 : .( 4 w .v-s 52 you' have thih' period. cf ' grace' -- you' may Lnot' see it that way -- 11 'e's.L 2 of being down on an extended' shutdown' to put <intc' pitcc-chi of ' 3 tha best' maintenance programs,.look.at: things like maintenance: d 4 on the back shifts. ALwell-run and well-operated: plant:thAse: -5 days.doesn't just mean.operatoro,that.are wellLtrained,;welle 1 6 istaffed.' Ii 'mdans-maintenance staff that are'well,tenined'as I - 7: well. i y .c 8 There seems to be a strange. mort of tradition ~in this d ~ -businessthattheearliestinithebusinessof, nuclear} power 9 10' plant. generation can.go ono'of,two waps.' JThey can either,. 1 ,1 11 become some'of'the best,.or.they can become 'someLof the worst;: 12 and we've had a.veryLpainful11esson on that score'some.fsw; I 13 hundred miles to your south in the not.tool distant past~,'which-i \\'~' 14 continues to this day. 8 15 I would just. urge that you. net allow; the ' tradition ] 16 and the early effort in your company toistand'in'the way of-0 17 progress and to breed the. kind of' complacency that!seems to a 18 have led to this Peach Bottom debacle. You=areLcapable of 19 better, and I agree with the Chairman; I' hope.to see better. 20 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Any other comments? a i 21

4 (No response.]

z i 22 CHAIRMAN ZECH: All right. Thank'you very much, Mr. 23 ~Everett. 24 Would'the Staff come forward,.please? c 25 [Pavas.] n

il 53 1-CHAIRMAN ZECH: 'Please proceed, Mr. Stello. 2 Mu cTELL^: Th:.h ysu, L., chairman. ~3 I have with me on myfright Dr. Murley, Directorfof 4 the. Office of NRR,.and Mr. Russell, the' Region I' Administrator,( 5 and they will brief you on the status of our.revisw of the ~ 6-problems, as we see them and understand'them, the corrective 7 programs that you've heard described from the. Licensee,'~where: 8' we are with respect to them,-but 1et me begin by saying we're-I i 9 certainly not finished.. There is more.to'do.- ( 10 'What I thought, listening to the' discussion you;just. 11 had with the License ~e, I concur fully, and'we' have got to be' 12 persuaded that>there will be a mechanism.for the Licensee to-13 understand when he has a problem:again,-he will find'itt he l' 14 will find it early, not just at Peach Bottom but at Limerick 'as: i 15 well, so that we have confidence that that management team will L 16 be able to do that. l l~ 17 It's a difficult problem that we face. We clearly 18 have licensed operators, and as-you already have pointed out,. i 19 since they have the licenses, they have the responsibility to 20 our agency and the American people. 'It will be a difficult' 21 task. 22 I do not~want to dwell today, but we haveito also ask-23 ourselves, since as I recall a year ago, just a~'littlei.over a' 24 year ago, we were telling you that we.were concerned about 25 problems that we had seen at Peach Bottom. We clearly were.not

54 1 able to understand them the way we: understand them to dcy. ~We-n 2 must a:P curselver 'vhet 'eer t's de batter then the L!.censee is 3-not. identifying it; what 'about us, what we at the latC cando to 4 make sure that we can put our finger more'directly.on the real 5 nature of 'che problem? .6 cI met'with/Mr. Everett.and.some of his-principall 7 staff:just about a year ago in August.and madel clear to them-that we were concerned that there;was a;problemLthere,l bun we 8 9 did not truly understand it, as wa-now understand'it)today,>and; 1 10 indeed they had. programs that were. treating,some of $he' 11 symptoms of problems that-we:had, but neverireally getting-to 12-the very nature of the problem. 13 t i So'the concern that we_had last year was one~that was. fs 14 real, and we're going.to have to examine.for ourselves1very 15 hard what we can do to not correct the problem, but make sure 16 that we understand it. We'rs committed to do,that, and I'm not. 17 going to sit here today and tell you we clearly know how toi 18 bring that about.- But these next several years, we're going to 19 be putting a great deEl of effort and attention to'trying to-do 20 what we can:to identify problems far earlier and when'they are u 21 far less serious than they are now at Peach Bottom. 22 With that, let me turn first'to Dr. Murley'foruseme 23 commentsLand then immediately to Mr. Russell to get on with~ 24 describing very briefly the status' of where saa are. .m 25' CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you. Proceed, please.' 1

55 1 MR. MURLEY: In judging Philadelphia Electric's .s l 2 'overall corrective actions, we can break it down into two 3 parts: changes at tr.e site and changes in company policies. J 1 4 They have mentioned some of the management changes that they're l i .I 5 making at the site: the new Plant Manager, new operations' 6 Superintendent, new Operations Engineer, and six new Shift 1 l 7 Superintendents,.and the fact that they're going to bring in 8 degreed Shift Managers. Th?.se are all in a positive direction,. j 1 H 9 we believe, with regard to the site' changes. j l 10 Still,.the Staff has many questions about the details 11 of how these are going to be implemented. It is very difficult 12 to change attitudes, :s you mentioned, and this is not done 13 overnight. ( It's not done perhaps in a few weeks or even a few i 14 months. 15 Bill Russell and Bill Kane and Bruce Boger, who is on 16 my right, will talk about some of the questions we have about j i 17 the site. R 18 With regard to the company policies and the changes 19 beyond Peach Bottom, we have even broader questions there. 20 Many of these same corrective actions and words-we heard today, 21 we heard a year ago when Vic Stello talked with the company. ' i 22 So now, I agree, Mr. Chairman, we have to see real results and l t 23 not be -- not listen to just mere words. 24 After the shutdown order, Philadelphia Electric hired { s' j' 25 an independent management consultant to do a root-cause t l 1 i

56 1 assessment. This assessment-found many of the Peach Bottom ,m 2 problems were rooted in poor company practices and policies. 3 One particular finding was that there was a potential-4 for some ef the same Peach Bottom attitudinal problems to 5 develop at Limerick, if there is not substantive changes in i 6 management philosophy and the approach to nuclear. operations. 7 And, Commissioner Carr, I think your' question was 8 exectly right. We have not.yet seen a system that would allow 1 1 9 them to see very early on if Limerick were htarting to' turn to j i f 10 these same problems. 11 So those are some of the questions that'we'll be 12 looking at. Do they have a system for conducting self-critical. l 13 analyses and looking for root causes up at the company level? ( I 14 Do they bring in outside views of"their operations?.Are they 15 bringing in new people? 16 Very few so far. It's a very. highly in-grown, 17 paternalistic company, and perhaps they need some more outside is views. 19 We are systematically reviewing the correction plan, 20 as well as the overall approach of the company, and our plan, 21 after we receive answers to some of the questions that we've< given them in the next week or two, our plan:is to reach a 22 23 conclusion on these broader questions of.their overall approach in the next few weeks and ther, discuss our conclusions with 24 3 25 Philadelphia Electric then. i

57 1 So Bill Russell will discuss the status.of our review (3 2 now. p 3 CHAIRMAN ZECH: .All right, thank you. -Proceed.- 4 MR. RUSSELL: I'd like.to first brief the Commission 5 on.the approach that we're using to managing the review, and-6 .the reason is that this is a'veryJdifficult review,-and the 7 process is similar.to.the review process we're also using on N 8 Pilgrim, and that is essentia11y' a panel,1which is a. joint j i 9 activity between NRR and Region *I, and within the panel, we-1 10 have the expertise to identify issues, identify:information: 11 needs, and bring issues to' senior management for early: 12 resolution. The same panel is interacting with both states, l Maryland and Pennsylvania, gathering information~from them,.an. 13 (~s d-i 14 Bill Kane, who is the Panel Chairman'from Region I, will-15 discuss that in some detail. Bruce'Boger, the Assistant 16 Director for Region I Projects, is the Vice-Chairman of the 17 panel. 18 This panel meets frequently among themselves to 19 decide on management aspects of pursuing the review,-as well as. 20 meeting'with the utility, and those meetings haveLbeen.public c 21 meetings to understand essentially.what the utility;is' telling 22 us. 23 There are two points I'd like to make with respect to 24 the status of our review of the plan, and I think the plan ) 25 right now has serious questions as to its completeness. And

58 1-the reason we feel that it has serious questions is,"it; appears- ') m .J j h ) 2 to be missing a fifth root cause, and that's the ability to '3 self-assess and identify their own problems. We identified' 1 this at cur last panel meeting with the company and,finifact,- i 4 j it is contained in my September 11th' letter.to the1 utility, and' 1 5 you've' heard'quite a bit'of discussion oncthis issue earlier,. 6-I 7 'both in your own questions to the company;and-earlier Staff 8 discussion.: 9 The second problem that'we're having in:reviewingLthe. 10 plan is that!it is a collection'of-some 200-odd tasks, and.we H 11 don't see a good correlation between what it'is;they'restrying' 12 to accomplishLand those tasks and-the relationship.between: 13 tasks. So we have also. asked the company to-identify.how those c.., ( t i 14 tasks relate to.the root cause, what it is that they're trying 15 to fix with each one, so that we can understand batter what it 16 is they're. going to do, and we have to understand that first 17 and-then establish our own plans for reviewing how well.they've-18 done it. 19 So what I'm describing is a scquential step, and'we 20 are not yet at the point of concluding that theEfundamental" 8 21 approach.is one that we're ready to agree,with.: We don't know-22 whather the plan itself, with modification, is going tofaddress 23 I% our concerns, and we hope to answer that more fundamental 24 ' question within the next few weeks, as Dr.' Murley indicated.. 25 But we certainly agree.with the premise that we've 1

59 1 seen. programs and had descriptions and well-intentioned words,. m ' 2 and we need to see results. That is. going to come after we 3 understand what it is they're going to do, and then we'll1 4 measure them as to how well they do-what they say,they're going. 5 to do, and that's why we've chosen this panel process. We do 6 break it up into teams. Thereareindividual. assignments, 7 'whether it be in the human factors area or, as was mentioned 8 earlier, the evaluation of the_ training programs that are. going ) l 9 to be going on onsite, so that we'can divide the work: effort 10 and more effectively manage this very-important review. 11 With that, I'd like to turn it over to Bill Kane, the-I i 12 Panel chairman, and have him describe what the history of the 1 13 a , -) review to date has'been and essentially where we're going from 'd ( 14 here. -l 15 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Thank you. Proceed. 16 MR. KANE: Thank you. Could I have the first slide, 1 17 please? 18 (Slide.] 1 l 19 What I would like to review with you is the principal-20 Staff activities that have taken place since the shutdown 21 order, and as you know, we last brief you here on April 10th. 22 1 But I would like to focus on three aspects. I 23 One is the fact that we've had public meetings with 24 the Licensee. All of our meetings have been public except the

25 May 5th' meeting, which was a closed meeting because it dealt i

t

i Go with'the handling of the' invest'igation,faithough a transcript 1 ,m - + 5[ 2

was taken of that meeting, and it was subsequently released.

3' The last meeting that we had with the Licensee was-on 4 August 26th, and that was really our.first' meeting.on the 1 5 Commitment to Excellence Plan. -The three meetings that' l' 6' occurred.in May and June and July were' basically.to? allow the ~ H 7 Staff to understand what was going on intthe development of the H .a 8 ^ plan. 1 9 The second point 1I would.like to-make with-this slide 10. is the fact that we have been.in close communication with the 11 states and local governments.- Insthe case of'theIfirst 1 u a 12 briefing, it was the Stato of Maryland in April in Annapolls. ^ 13 In May, we briefed the CommonwealthLof' Pennsylvania,"and-in ( 'I 14 June, we briefed Hartford County in. Bel Air, Maryland. u E 15 The third point I'd like to make is,.from JulyL24th f 16 on, we have issued-biweekly public status. reports of the 17 activities associated with Peach Bottom to keep the public- ) l 18 informed of basically what's going en. 19 Next slide, please. 1 20 (Slide.) V 21 I'd like to discuss the Peach Bottom Restart i 22 ' Assessment Panel activities. -Billisaid the panel was formed on' 23 August llth, and its principal functions are to coordinate the i j 24 evaluation of the Licensee plan, develop the. plan.for the s 25 review and. inspections that are to take place --'it'ssa l \\ I L

\\ .61 lJ combination of-both - =and to make_ recommendations to senior. n\\ f '2 management when we have completed our review. The initial. panel meeting was on August 13th, and on- ] 3 4 August-24th, the first-round ofl questions were developed and' 5-bant to the Licensee. Of significance -- I'know you've looked; L 6 at the plan -- it is'a collection of. tasks, and it~is devoidof.- i-7 the detail that we would need to complete a; review. So.part of. j -i

8 the first request was to obtain the additional information'for 9

the specific tasks. 10 On August 26th, we' met with the Licensee to discuss. the plan, and there wera three aspects,to.that review, thei 11 12 first one'to test the completeness of the root causes,;of-which 13 -you've heard a great deal here today. ,s h T e one1which Bill k' 14 Russell described is the one that the panel? focused on that'you-15 picked up on during-the meeting : earlier, is really 'the ability. j of'the organization ~ to understand what's going cnn to identify 16 17' its problems, and to fix'those problems at an.early stage, 18 rather than to have third parties develop the problems:and-1 19-identify them to the Licensee. 20 The second major undertaking at that first meeting-21 was to try to understand the completeness of:the restart. tasks. 22- . If you've seen the ' plan, there are three categories _ofitasks of 1 23-the 300-odd tasks. The category.1 tiasks are required,'in.t'h'e 24 Licensee's view,-for restart. The Category 2 tasks are to be t 25 completed over some intermediate timeframe; and finally the .i _A -_-______m_ A.-._-. _m

.m

62 4

1 . Category 3 tasks are' longer-term activities. ,2 our particular focus at that meetin'g was to try.to'- !3 understand why some of the tasks in Category 2 and Category 3' ~ 4 which would seem logical for restart were'not restart tasks.- t 5 'You've discussed some of them-today in your questions:- shift j

6-rotation over time, disciplinary policy,.and-theLlevels of #

7 . management-in the organization. Those.are~some of them.- 1 8' u And then finally, as Bill said,'toLtest'thallogicifor' j 9 these catagory assignments by relating them back-to the root i 10 causes through a process that these(are.;the rooticauses,;an;d. j 11 these.are the problems thatLwe're trying to' solve, and these q 12 are the tasks that solve those-problems. 13 So that's the way that we're~ proceeding. As..airesult-('" 14 of that meeting, we developed-some additional' requests.for-15 information which were issued on September 11th.. 3 i 16 The next slide. 17 .(Slide.]' l ? 18 - On the next s.lide, I'd like to explain:where we're- +1 19 going from here. As I said earlier, it willfbe aLcombination l 20 of review of material and inspections which,will center.around' i 21 the completion of the review of the action' plan, Assessment of' h 22 the Licensed-operator Attitude and Performance. Improvement-3 Program, whic'h the first inspection is scheduled for next' week ? R 23 .i 24 on that, and to verify completion of the Category 1 tasks, that 25 'that is a necessary and sufficient set of tasks to ---necessary-i .______._.d___

63 1 'for r'estart of the' plant.. n .. ) 2' We will continue to involve,the publicLand the 3 states. We have set upLpublic meetings in-the area of the' y N 1 4-plant in'both Maryland and Pennsylvania for September 24th.- H 5' The purpose 1of those public meetings,.which have been: l 3 ~ .i 6 announced, is.to'obtain commentsHfrom the.public on'the-7- adequacy of the plan. We have also issued let'ters11ast' week to. '8-the States of Maryland and Pennsylvania,Lasking for their input ) into the process, questions that they may'have concerning_.the' 1 9 l' l '10 . adequacy of the plan. 11 The~psnel.is charged with the responsibility of 12 making a recommendation to senior NRC management 0forfrestart,

l I

~< 13 (74 and the final step is'to brief the Commission on-the rea'diness 1 14 for restart. 15 That completes my - - 16 CHAIRMAN ZECH: All right,Lthank you very much.. Does 17 that conclude the presentation of the Staff? 18 KR. KANE: Yes. 19 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Questions from~my fellow l u 20 ' Commissioners? Commissioner Bernthal? b 21 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: Ifdon't want to beat.the ( 22 horse too-long here, but let me ask a. question about b3 maintenance of the Staff-here." one of the-hardest things'to 24 assess, as we've heard many times, as.everyone here-knows,- 'is 25 management effectiveness, attitudes, when they've~ changed. l s l i 1 - 1

[ ~64 1. It's not easy to. change attitudes, as someone here has pointed [ 2 out, and we'll'have to do the best'we can. 7 3 But maybe.we'can got a clue as to whether attitudes-4 have changed, and there.ifafundamental'changelgoingonhere ~ 1 5 from what the utility is doing and is learning and what 6 advantage they are taking of'this outage period with respect to ) ) 7 maintenance. 8 Have you had a:chaisce to look at that carefully?.It 9 . sounds like they are behind the curve in getting to a modern, ) 10 aggressive, preventive maintenance program.- I don't:know what j .<r 1 a 11 kind of maintenance shift set-dp yhey have, but mayi>a if we ' 12 take a look at something rather different that mig b not have l 13 occurred over the-last few months as being a central issue, we 14 might get some idea of whirt!'s been going on' there. 15 can you comment on that?' 16 MR. KANE: Well,.in terms of -- not ust in terms'of maintenance, but really what'we're looking at is all activities 17 18 that are taking place at the plant, going beyond particularly. 19 the operations area. ,,a 1 20 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: 'That's:right. 21 MR. KANE: And that is a significant input into the- /> process in determining'this utiliky's readiness for restart of 22 23 the plant. That, of course, is something thafi dontinues with - 24 our onsite program, as well as scheduled inspecOlons-which the ', 25 panel is coordinating to get feedback into all areas. But I-t

65' l' wouldn't limit'it to just -- 21 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: Yes, but I want'an-3 assessment. Can you give me an assessment of what has 4 happened, what they're doing?' 5 MR.. RUSSELL: Let me give you a. snapshot of.what, at 6 least from direct observation I had in going'through.the plant- 'in the last month, and Jim Taylor and I went through-7 q 8 specifically to get an understanding of'the status'of'the-9 material condition and conditions at'the plant, and I was-10 somewhat disappointed in what I observed from the' standpoint ~of 11 what I would characterize as attention to. detail of first l'ine 12 supervisors in how some of the work practices were being' 'l 13 conducted. ...s '~ 14 I went through the facility.with-senior management-15 from the company, and the meeting that we had:following, I 16 would characterize that they agreed.with'some of those concerns 17 and that they, themselves, had identified some of_themLin-going. 18 through the facility. 19 The extremely high levels of contamination in some. 20 areas of the facility, I_think, significantly detract.from the 21 ability to do maintenance. I was'particularlyidisappointedLin q 22 the reactor _ water cleanup pumpLrooms and in the outside'MSIV-L 1 J 23 room. Those areas were acknowledged by the company,1and I will: 24 be making a return visit, and the Staff will'be looking at-25 these issues to see whether we'are, indeed, getting results in .q i i _ _ ___ _ = J

.m anrw< ..m # 7 'CTC% -4 W x u v s x 'n\\< f *[ly % + y '[ l N " <4 6 ~ 7 6 'someLofthesiareas,suchthatthdf,operathr'sdon$havetogo 1 x-f 4-in in respirators and-double'setailot protective clothing.in-2 l[f [, It,,j 1 3 order to do routft ma ntenance tpc activities. f + c-4 .In come roas,'the,pontsmithdanIevalsareso'high- .1 that it's'diffic dti h justif, okt a'rv.d em tasia] g;ing in.: J 5 6-They need;to ennsomeoftIEtstuffup'firsi,t.M-thatthey. L., mig' s y 7 can'get access. But. therb lid a long. ways, to ' go. - I've been to i' f 8 29 plants now, si:lce adttebming thWposition of-Regional' .^ i,ji. l 9 Administrator, and his facility material-condition-wiseIis rt t 7 s)

e 10 lower middle.

So E,think they can take advantage of some of s j i / 1 11 this time and:addreas some of thesd issues. )U 4 f (f

j 12 COMMISSIM,iER BERNTHAL

What.about'this 1400-odd' O N 4 f j ,i Have you had a chance to dola;t 13 items of maintenance? scrosscut 14 at that list and get some 1 dea _of how' serious the 11st is and ^ a r 15 how far bnhind they are? j) /, 16 MR. KANE: 'I dos't have]th,dt at this' point forLyou, y butit'soneoftheissues)*ofcourse,thatisonourprogram. 17 tomakesurethatwetnerobghlyunderstandthateverythingthat' 18 should be completed' vill be prior to any decision on restart.. 19 .3 ~ p ~ 20 + COMMISSIONER WERNTHAL:' What about the structure-of- .. e 21 the personne2., the adequacy bd sthffing on maintenance?. I t s I 22 MR. KANE: That has not been a problem in:the past, 23 and I don't think tliere's a probl'em tnere. ,) - 24 COMMISSIONER BERNTHALT ;How many maintenance shifts / .y 25 do they have? One shift? ) l g ) i

4 J 67, l a 1-MR. KANE:. My understanding'is that it's'one. l J I2 .s., COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: There are no maintenance 13 personnel on duty other'than on the one shift? t "4 MR. RUSSELL: Recall-that, I guess it was 5 approximately a year and a half ago or so that we briefed you 6 on maintenance programs. Philadelphia Electric's maintenance 7 program was not one of the.ones we studied,.but it was/one we 8 had quite a bit of information on. 9 They have an organization-which has some maintenance 10 activities reporting'through a central group, whichris not l .11 reporting.directly to the plant,.that they typically.;use forI l 12 outage type work or big-ticket items such as pipe 1 replacement.- 13 t u ( ~'1 Those activities wa found to be~managedLrelat'ively well. 14 When you got to the types of maintenance th't vare a / a 15 done at the. plant level, there were some concerns that they 16 were not being done as well, and so you'had this.distribut' ion.- 17 Those issues are being. looked at. We've identified some 18 concerns in the SALP repcrts and in other areas, and clearly. 19 we're going to be looking at them. But the specifica as-to-20 characterizing the current maintenance backlog andchow 21 significant it is and that prioritization, the company is.doing ~22 that now, and we have not completed our review.of it. 23-MR. MURLEY: I don't know if that was made clear, L', 24 ~ Commissioner, but the maintenance people report to a different 4 25 Vice President from Nuclear Operations.

I. t m l l 68 '1 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:.That's one,of.the; reasons.I. , O,, ,2' asked. w l 3 MR. MURLEY: . I;always felt-that that was a problem. 4, 1 But they claimed it wasn't,:and they wentato~ great lengths 1to 5 argue that it wasn't. 1 But I guess if I werefa. Plant. Manager,; } 6 I'd want everybody on the site. reporting to me, butLthat's1not' I 7 the case'there.' 8 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: l Okay. 9 -CHAIRMAN ZECH: Commissioner Carr?' l 10 3 COMMISSIONER CARR I've:got7enefsmall-problem,'andL l 1 11 it looks like Dr. Murle'y is beginning to'attacklit,:and?that's 12 why our Reaident Inspectors don't turn up-the' problem of' 3 ^ 13 sleepin' Y ( ~,) g on watch: and some means of getting3 hem into the plante '~' 14-at all. hours of'the shifts and so.forth. .I's:ee un's taking.. l

l 15 some action on his' deep back shift coverage.. I?likeithat.

But 16 I think we've got to solve one problem offhaving some'way those 17 men can be in'the plant.without'the public address system 1

18 passing the word that they're on the'way. 19 MR. STELLO: } We're looking at the feasibilityLof 20 . modifying one.of our rules that would make it easier to do' 21 that. I think that's a very. serious. question, becattue L the ' 22 routine.for our Residents orJanyone else coming to the plant is-1 1 23 a' general awareness.and an announcement,'and.not just, 1 -\\ incidentally, for our own people, but even plant people.. 24 25 COMMISSIONER CARR: Oh, I certainly agree.. I don't l l t l 1 __.______._____i

69 ~~ 1 think the owners of the company could walk into the' plant 2 unannounced either. I don't think they could-catch them-i 3 sleeping. But there ought to be a'means by which you can' walk 4 around those plants, if you've got a responsibility to be'an 5 inspector. 6-MR. STELLO: Yes. We're working on that. j

1 7

COMMISSIONER CARR: And I'd like to,see us do-L ]1 8 something about that. 9 MR. STELLO: We are. i j 10 MR. PARLER: Is that the draft rule?. 11 MR. STELLO: That's what.we're working on. 12 MR. PARLER: A personal observation on my part, which (".) is not worth too much in this area, is that although we are i 13 14 working on the rule, et cetera, it seems to me that there has { 15 to be some other understanding at different levels for people 16 that have a common objective-to get things like that worked 17 out, and I don't see how, if it can't be worked out there, it 18 would~ automatically be worked out by the best rule that good .j 19 minds could draft. 20 CHAIRMAN ZECH: I agree with the General Counsel. j 21 It's not just rules; %e need real attitudinal cooperation:and i 22 changes to make sure that the intent is carried through. 23 Anything else, Commissioner Carr? 24 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL: I would hate to think, if I

j 25 were a member of upper level management, that I couldn't take a

a O ~ 70 1-look at my' control room at 3:00 a.m. withoutIhaving.it J' 2 announced-on the PA system. I. hope,that's;not the-case. -1 -3 CHAIRMAN'ZECH: ;0h,-I'm sure you'd have itfannounced-4 somewhere or another. That's-been my experience. You know, it's the.way business -.most people, you know,,have'the word 5 { i 6-to let them know when the boss;comes around,'and'that's just' kind of a part of this business and.many others,-I think, too. i ~7 8 But the EDO is going to. work on'that,-and we'll"see 9 if we can -- 10' MR. STELLO: We'11'do our best. 11 CHAIRMAN ZECH: Let me.just make one.brief comment. 12 First of all, as far as I'm-concerned,1we're' dealing here.with' 13 4 . (# really a breakdown of management' control,1which' essentially; I .s ; 14 resulted in inattentive operators,'which resultslin unsafe 15 operational conditions at'the plant.- It's'as simple.as.that. 16 New to the Staff,'I hear'what you're,doing.. I.think 17 you're doing the right thing. I would just submit;that you 18 carefully review the program, which you're'doing.. :You.must be 19 satisfied that it is an adequate programcin order.to satisfy; 20 the Commission. I'd say you must continually monitorfthaL 21 performance as you look at the program.- You should continue. 22 monitoring the performance of-the' plant to see if there are'any' 23 signs of changes of not only competence, but attitudinal-24 ' changes and other changes. m ) 25 In other words, you should watch for results. Is it a ---_______.n.__--

l '71 ~1 changing or not? Are we just-' talking words, or_do you really- )- 2 see actions?. 3 There is need for improvement. I_mean a real need 4 for improvement..Something has got to change in that J 5 organization, and there has got to'beLa commitment to continue . improvement on the-part of.the Licensee and the people. 6 It's a 7 real challenge that he has, the Licenses has, and'thatLwe'have 8 to monitor.that and provide our~ advice.and counsel, as'well as-9 our own assurance-that our regulations are~being,followed.: 10 So we have a. challenge as12 ell as'the Licensee,.-and-11 it's -- again it's performance that we cannot' tolerate. 'It's i 12 got to change. 'It must change before', I'm sure,.this~ 13 k) Commission will be satisfied.that'that planti can restart.T .. s Are there any other comments? ] 14 15 (No response.] 16 CHAIRMAN ZECH: All right,'thank youLvery much.. If 17 not, we stand adjourned. 13 (Whereupon, at 3:50 o' clock, p.m., the Commission 19 meeting was adjourned.] 20 'i 1 21 22-f 23 24 25 J

1: 2' REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 4 This is to certify that the attached events of a-5 meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled: 6' 7 TIT 12 OF MEETING: Briefing on the Status of Peach Bottoa 8 PLACE OF MEETING: Washington, D.C. 9 DATE OF MEETING: Monday, September-14, 1987 10 11 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original 12 transcript thereof for the file of the commission takenc {$, 13 stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to. typewriting by s . i 14 me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and j i 15 4 that the transcript is a true and accurate. record of the l ~ 16 foregoing events. fl;,, i 18 .1 Ann Rilef i 19 i j 20 21 J. 22 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd. 23 24 -( T l q,) 25 l

9/14/87 l SCHEDULING NOTES i TITLE: BRIEFING ON THE STATUS OF PEACH BOTTOM i i SCHEDULED: 2:00 P.M., MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 1987 (OPEN) DURATION: APPROX 1-1/2 HRS PARTICIPANTS: PHILADELPHIA ELECTRIC COMPANY (LICENSEE) 30 MINS - J.H. AUSTIN, JR. PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER - J.S. KEMPER SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT i ENGINEERING 8 PRODUCTION - J.S. GALLAGHER i VICE PRESIDENT f NUCLEAR OPERATIONS l - D. SMITH, MANAGER PEACH BOTTOM ATOMIC POWER STATION .1 NRC STAFF 30 MINS - VICTOR STELLO, JR. EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR OPERATIONS - THOMAS MURLEY, DIRECTOR OFFICE OF NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION ~ WILLI AM KANE, DIRECTOR DIVISION OF REACTOR PROJECTS (REGION I) =

l I 1 [' 1 l 1 I I B3]UG OX "3E S"A"US 0? P3 ACE 30T"0Y i S3?"31333.6,.987 i 1 I \\ s 1 1 .) 1 i l i l l l T. KANE, REGION I FTS 488-1127

.W,,- i NRC STAFF ACTIVITIES SINCE SHUTDOWN ORDER APRIL 10 BREFED COMMISSION ON STATUS OF PEACH B0'ITOM 1 I APRIL 14 BREFED STATE OF MARYIAND ON STATUS OF PEACH BOTTOM 1 j MAY 5 CLOSED MEETING WITH UCENSEE ON STATUS OF THEIR l INVESTIGATION (TRANSCRIBED) MAY 6 BREFED COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA ON l STATUS OF PEACH BOTTOM !j MAY 15 PUBUC MEETINGS WITH UCENSEE ON JUNE 17 STATUS OF THEIR INVESTIGATION JULY.15 (ATTENDED BY STATES) j q l JUNE 23 BREFED HARFORD COUNTY ON. STATUS REPORTS OF-l PEACH BOTTOM 1 \\ JULY 24 - ISSUED BIWEEKLY PUBUC STATUS REPORTS l PRESENT ON PEACH BO'170M ACTIVITIES AUGUST 26 PUBUC MEETING WITH UCENSEE TO DISCUSS ICTION PIAN (TRANSCRIBED) .)

+ PEACH BOT"0M RESTART ASSESSMENT PAIEL ACTIVITIES AUGUST 11 RESTART ASSESSMENT PANEL ESTABUSHED - EVALUATE UCENSEE PLAN - COORDINATE REVIEWS / INSPECTIONS - MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS j AUGUST 13 INITIAL PANEL MEETING j AUGUST 17 - ISSUE WEEKLY LIST OF ACTIVITIES i PRESENT BRIEF OE, OI, NRR EXECUTIVE TEAM PERIODICALLY I AUGUST 24 COORDINATED FIRST ROUND OF REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION FROM UCENSEE l AUGUST 26 MET VITH UCENSEE TO DISCUSS REQUEST FOR INFORMATION - TEST ROOT CAUSES - TEST COMPLETENESS OF RESTART TASKS - TEST LOGIC FOR TASE CATEGORY ASSIGNMENTS SEPT.11 COORDINATED SECOND ROUND OF REQUESTS i FOR INFORMATION FROM UCENSEE i

f q_ l 1

3MNN3] RISTA3T 3EV3W ACTNITIES i

STAFF REVmW AND INSPECTION ACTIVITIES-COMPLETE ACTION PLAN REVEN PROCESS ASSESS. LICENSED OPERATOR ArnT0DE AND PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM VERIFY COMPLETION OF CATEGORY 1 TASKS INVOLVEMENT WITII PUBLIC AND STATES RECE!VE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT MEETINGS i IN MARYLAND AND PENNSYLVANIA OBTAIN WRITTEN COMMENTS FROM' MARYLAND AND PENNSYLVANIA PANEL RECOMMENDATION FOR RESTART I -.s. BRIEF COMMISSION ON READINESS FOR RESTART

......,'v t_, 1 PEACH BOTTOM RESTART REVIEY PANEL 1 i 1 I l u t 1 CHAIRMAN q 1 WH1IAM KANE, DIRECTOR, D[ VISION 0F REACTOR PROJECTS, REGION I VICE CHAIRMAN l l 1 1 BRUCE B0GER. ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, REGION I REACTORS, NRR 1 l MEMBERS j l 1 4 WIIIIAM REGAN. CHIEF. HUMAN FACTORS l ASSESSMENT BEANCII, NRR ED1fARD YENZINGER, CHIEF, PROJECTS BRANCH 2,. I REGION 1 ROBERT GALLO, CHIEF, OPERAT]ONS BRANCH, REGION I RONALD BEILAMY, CHEF, RADIOLOGICAL l PROTECTION AND EMERGENCY. PREPAREDNESS j 1 BRANCH, REGION I l L MMES UNVIRE, CHIEF, PROJECTS SECHON M, ] REGION I l a

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