ML20214V290
| ML20214V290 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 09/23/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#486-1026 86-533-01-OL, 86-533-1-OL, OL-5, NUDOCS 8610020227 | |
| Download: ML20214V290 (175) | |
Text
- - -
ORIGI NA"_
O UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO:
SHOREHAM NUCLEAR POWER STATION 50-322-OL-5 EP/ EXERCISE O
I.OCATION:
HAUPPAUGE, NEW YORK PAGES: 16.214-16,404 DATE:
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1986 TF1.O/Rs
@p $0Acaf // ?'- /2 ace-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
0 OfficialReporters 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 9610020;z-' e60923 F DR APCCr O '~ 0 0 2
(202)347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
16,214 l
Sim 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA j
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
j
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3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 5
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x 6
In the Matter of:
7 LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY :
Docket No. 50-322-OL-5 8
(EP Exercise)
(Shoreham Nuclear Power (ASLBP No. 86-53 3-01-OL)
Station, Unit 1) 10
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -X 11 Suffolk County-Legislature Bldg.
12 Building 20 Veterans Memorial Highway 13 Hauppauge, Long Island 11787 (h.
'/
14 Tuesday, September 23, 1986
~
15 The Limited Appearance Session commenced, 16 g
pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m.
17 BEFORE:
MORTON B.
MARGULIES, Chairman 4
19 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board
(-
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C.
20555 i
20 a
5 JERRY R.
KLINE, Member 21 j
The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Nuclear Regulatory Commission 22 Washington, D.C.
20555 23 FREDERICK J.
SHON, Member The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 24 Nuclear Regulatory Commission (jh Washington, D.C.
20555 25
16!215 gjw
,t _.
1 INDEX h,,
2 WITNESS PAGE 3
Senator Alfonse M.
D'Amato 16,218 i
4 Mark Green 16,225 5
Thomas Bawaga 16,230 6
George Hochbuckner 16,234 7
William Bianci 16,238 8
Wayne Prospect 16,240 9
Nora Bredes 16,244 10 Mark Adams 16,249 11 Bob Zimmerman 16, 253 12 Monica Dolan 16,257
- (?~)
g, 13 Sister Jeanne Cla'rk 16,261 14 Arthur McComb 16,263 15 Regina Romanchuk 16,267 16 Catherine Black 16,269 l
l-7 William Romanchuk 16,271 18 James Markotsis 16,276 19 Miriam Goodman 16,279 20 Harold Goodman 16,283 21 Lisa Pollicino 16,286 22 Eileen Newman 16,291 l
23 Robert Hader 16,293 24 Barbara Levy 16,295 Ace rederal Reporters, Inc.
25 Lisa Lay 16,300
16.216 L
1 INDEX (Continued)
~
i
(,/
2 WITNESS PAGE 3
Anthony Schaffer 16,305 4
Barbara Governally 16,306 5
Leon Campo 16,308 6
Lisa Price 16,314 7
Vincent J.
DeLuca 16,316 8
Jim Leotta 16,328 9
Carol Rudd 16,331 10 Rocky Guarimo 16,336 11 Elsa Ford 16,338 12 Victor Teich 16,339
,x.
()
13 Mark Limbo 16,342 14 Rose Cianchetti 16,343-A 15 Al Washington 16,346 16 Paul Mortola 16,349 17 Walter Knightlick 16,352 18 Mel Wolf 16,354 19 Helen Westfel 16,357 20 Bernard Smith 16,366 21 Alan Arak 16,370 22 Dennis DiPrima 16,373 23 Diane Rickmers 16,375 4
24 Catherine Callahan 16,376 Ac. 7.o.,:s Report.<i.inc.
25 Louise Popike 16,378 l
-__s
16.216-7
' Ijw I
i 4-,
1 INDEX (Continued) i
/~'i j
.V 2
WITNESS PAGE i
3 Catherine Sinnon 16,379 4
Hans Stroile 16,385 5
Tony Save 16,389 6
Vickki Goedferro 16,390 7
Margaret Gorman 16,392 8
Dominick Formica 16,397 9
Senator Owen H. Johnson 16,400 H)
Ndke DePaoli 16,401 11 12 13 I4 15 16 17 v
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 An-W Reorwrs, lm.
25
16,217 1
1-1-93w I
1 (9:32 a.m.)
)
2 PR'OCEEDINGS I
'a JUDGE MARGULIES:
The hearing will come to order, i
4 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
The United States Nuclear i'
5 Regulatory Commission on June 6th 1986, instituted this 6
proceeding to consider evidence on the Federal Emergency Manage-R 7
ment's exercise of the Long Island Lighting Company Emergency 8
Plan for the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station as to whether it 9
shows fundamental flaws in the LILCO Emergency Plan.
10 The exercise was conducted on February 13th 1986.
- The, 11 Board assigned to hear this matter is composed of Judge Jerry R.!
12 Kline, sitting on my right, Judge Frederick J.
Shon, sitting on
(!
e%
s_)
13 my left, and I am Judge Morton B, Margulies, the Chairman.
14 Parties to the proceeding are the Long Island Lighting 15 Company, who is the Applicant, the duclear Regulatory Commission 1
16 Staff, and the Interveners who oppose the application.
They l
17 consist of the State of New York, the County of Suffolk, New 18 York, and the Town of Southampton, New York.
19 Their counsel are present in the hearing room today, i
i i
l 20 The issues to be litigated have not as yet been ruled upon.
The l
l 21 matter is currently under consideration.
We are conducting a 22 limited appearance session here today pursuant to Section 2.7]5q
[
23 of Part ] O of the Code of Federal Regulations.
It permits i
j 24 persons not a party to make a limited appearance by ma31ng' an el Reporters, Inc.
l 25 oral or written statement of their position.
- ___n,
f' 16,218
]-2-gjw i
i
'S 1
The statements made by persons not a party to the O
(_).
2 proceeding are not evidence.
The appearances can' alert the 3
Board and the parties to areas in which evidence may need to be 4
adduced.
l
-~
I,
In order to accommodate as many persons as possible,
-l' 5
it is customary at NRC limited. appearance sessions to limit 6
7 oral presentations to five minutes, j
Written statements which are placed in the record are 8
not limited.
We have a large number of_ people here today.
We 9
would like to have as many of you as possible speak on the 10 11 issues.
Persons speaking on behalf of constituents and others-12 comparably situated may need some additional time to present
((g) 13 their presentations.
We will attempt to accommodate those persons as best we can, but we are always mindful of the right 14 of individuals to b'e heard..
15 We will start with~ our first appearance, that of 16 17 Senator Alfonse D' Amato, i
18 Whereupon, UNITED STATES SENATOR ALFONSE M.
D'AMATO, 19 a public witness, testified as follows:
20 SENATOR D'AMATO:
Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
Mr.
21 22 Chairman, those who have prepared my remarks have done so in the traditional way, and have suggested that I open up with 23 (Jg 24 saying that I am pleased to be here.
.= _. ~.
I must suggest to you that I believe that the NRC and 25 u
16,219 I
-]-3-Jo;Wal 1
1 lMEMA totally have been abdicating their responsibilities.
And
)
that this hearing, which really should have been held quite some 2
3 time ago to provide people with the opportunity 'to comment on i
4 that drill, the sham drill, the mock drill, the inadequate' drill;.
l 5
the mythical drill, should really.have been held by the NRC or l
I 6
FEMA, as. is traditionally the case.
And I will touch on that.
l I want to say at the outset that the conduct of the j
7 NRC has'been shameful, and also suggest that this Board has 8
i restricted participation and tomorrow's official prehearing 9
10 conference unduly, and this is just one more example of the way i
11 in which the NRC has attempted to prevent the public from I
12 participating in an issue so vital to the public safety.
l e
l
,I)~
The citizens 'cxf Long Island are not second class 13 l
14 citizens, and yet they have been treated that way, with I
15 arrogence and with contempt.
They have grown skeptical, and I
f.
16 I wonder why.
The NRC's commitment to their safety, the people 17 are suspicious and rightly so.
The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is a short sighted bureaucracy, but in my opinion is 18 19 dedicated to the operation of Shoreham at any cost and at any risk to the public safety, notwithstanding these hearings.
20 You do us no f avor, let's understand that, by holding 21 22 these hearings.
There is a rule of law, and I would think if 23 we are supposed to be grateful for following the rule of law, j
k lh d
24 that is not what the American people have come to expect.
And Ase-e.dere neoorters, inc.
25 I hope I make my point clear.
16,220
] gjw i
i i
The people who live on the Island know from years of t
O) personal experience, and I have lived here since.]945, that the l
(_
2 3
roadway system here could never handle a major evacuation.
Evenl 4
the President's Chief of Staff, Mr. Regan, a former Long i
I 5
Islander himself, frankly has admitted this f act earlier this I
6 year.
I I wish he would have suggested a more constructive 7
manner in terms of meeting the so-called delimma, and I wish to 8
9 avoid that delimma, and my conclusion will deal with how we 10 do.
11 Despite that fact, the NRC seems intent.
They seem 12 intent on looking for some way to justify what they want to do. f l
')
What they have intended to do all along, and that is to license
.13 14 Shoreham, regardless of the risk.
It is time to stop trying to 15 license Shoreham.
It is time for the NRC to acknowledge the
-16 risk.
It is time for this Board to remove its gag rule and i
17 to listen to the public.
l 18 There are three reasons basically why Shoreham should l 19 not be licensed.
It is essential that they be considered fully 20 at the NRC hearings.
21' First, the February 13th exercise of LILCO's 22 evacuation plan was a useless charade.
Not only was the drill run without the cooperation of any state or local government 23 k lh d
24 officials, but FEMA refused public participation as well.
l Amemuw amorten ix.
25 Following their sham exercise, I repeatedly requested of FEMA
~~..m-
16,221
]-5-gjw I
to hold a meeting with the public residents hear Shoreham, justj O-f 2
as FEMA has routinely done elsewhere.
FEMA should have held 3
meetings, but they refused to do it.
They held meetings with j
r 4
respect to the residents of Indian Point and GENA exercises l
5 in New York; however, it refused to do so at Shoreham.
Is 6
not the safety of the residents here equally as important?
l 7
Then I asked the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 8
require FEMA to hold its customary meeting at Shoreham.
The 9
NRC also refused.
Both-EEMA and the NRC cited as - justification 10
.for not holding the public meeting the fact that a full airing 11 of the issues related to the February ] 3th exercise would occur 12 in the hearing before this licensing board, f
I 13 This very proceeding, therefore, is to serve as that
~
14 function.
We should understand when and where we will have thaq 15 opportunity.
We must be sure that the safety issues of concern 16 to the public are thoroughly and openly examined.
17 In fact, the Board itself now has an obligation, this,
i 18 Board has an obligation, to make sure that kind of public 19 involvement normally envisoned for the FEMA public meeting 20 takes place in this proceeding.
21 I say a sham, because when I see there is going to be 22 an evacuation center at the Nassau County Coliseum, and I have 23 been to that coliseum many times, and I say to you that would
()
24 be totally inadequate.
Acofederse Reporters, Inc.
25 I say to you it would have been totally inadequate
]-6-gjw 16,222 i
t I
!j 1
and it is not now available.
And I hear LILCO saying they ll
~
2 have sights under their control in Velmore, Long Island, in the
,1 f
3 south shore.
Can you imagine an evacuation taking place with
{
t 4
people attempting to find a limited facility.
Lord knows how 5
many people they could put in there; five hundred, a thousand, j
6 two thousand.
That is to serve as an amergency evacuation l
i 7
cente r?'
What a shmm.
l To say that maybe their facility in Mineola, the l
8 people would attempt and actually find access to Mineola to th 9
10 headquarters there?
Or to their facility in Hicksville?
11 Absolutely incredible.
It is incredulous.
And I 12 know those three sites and I know them well.
If they were to 13 be evacuation centers, I would say to you and suggest to you 14 that on its face, on its face, they are inadequate, and I can' t 15 believe that that is what we would require under the law as a 16 suitable evacuation site.
17 Second, when. FEMA completed its evaluation of the 18 February 13th test, FEMA's own regional director, Frank Patrone,
1 1
19 announced that FEMA could not find reasonable assurance that f
20 the public safety would be protected in the case of an accident 21 at Shoreham.
l 22 FEMA headquarters in Washington, they didn't want l
23 those words spoken.
And so Mr. Patrone was forced to resign.
l 24 But General Bechton himself, he personally forced Mr. Patrone f
k()
a.+mes sworm. w.
25 to resign.
The safety implications of this incident must now
i 16,223
]-7-gjw 4
1 be considered by the NRC.
And it is essential to the public
'~
(3 A/
2 safety that the conclusion of FEMA's regional office under 3
Frank Patrone, be brought into the open, be put on the record, l
4 and dealt with squarely before this Board.
j I
5 I suggest this Board has an obligation to bring Mr.
6 Patrone before it to examine his reasons for his refusal to 7
certify for the adequacy of that test.
Otherwise, we just do i
8 the business of the Bureaucrats to keep them happy.
9 Frank Patrone was an outstanding public servant.
He ;
10 was experienced in evaluating FEMA regional tests at other 11 nuclear plants, and in every other case his conclusions were l
I.
12 accepted.
Esen during the difficulties at Indian Point, Frank !
l
(!~)
\\>
13 Patrone concluded that the public could not be protected, both i i
14 FEMA Headquarters and the NRC accepted his conclusions.
15 Here, instead of accepting Mr. Patrone's words, both i 16 agencies are still running from them.
Running from the truth.
17 And the people understand that, and that is why they are out-j 18 raged.
i I
i 19 It is time for the NRC and FEMA to stop running.
It ;
20 is time to recognize that in toying with an issue of licensing i
I 21 for Shoreham, the Federal bureaucracy is playing a da'ngerous A game in which the citizens of Long Island are the pawns.
i 22
-game.
l 23 Finally, I don't believe that we can ignore the l
24 lessons of Chernobyl.
Nuclear accidents on Long Island could l
h mm-eeuw noormi. w.
25 result in a tragedy of unprecedented proportions.
l l
I
16,224 1-8-gw 1
In Suffolk County, there are one point three million OkJ 2
people.
The' Long Island Expressway is notoriously jammed 3
even on the most perfect of days.
After a nuclear accident 4
you mean to tell me any expert could certify that we could i
5 move people out of here?
i 6
I suggest you, as an expert, as a person who has been,
i 7
caught in grid lock, it is impossible.
The bottom line is this::
i 8
Shoreham must not be licensed.
9 The fact of the matter is an evacuation plan cannot i
10 ensure the public safety.
And the tragic questions of i
11 Chernobyl show us that the threat of a nuclear accident is I
12 not simply theoretical.
p(x 13 I urge the NRC and this Board to remove the gag rule, '
i 14 and to consider all of these issues in the licensing hearing.
15 I believe if all of these issues are thoroughly examined, and 16 not just with a five minute presentation.
I believe if this 17 Board does its job, and reaches out, and brings Mr. Patrone and.
I i
18 others here, that there will be no license issued for the 19 Shoreham Nuclear Plant.
20 Mr. Chairman, I would hope that this licensing board !
21 would reverse what has been a shamefully inadequate procedure, 22 conduct by FEMA and the NRC, and write a chapter that all I
t 23 Americans could be proud of.
You might shake up some of the kjh 24 bureaucrats.
They might be wondering who these judges are, but 4.-7.oer.: Reponers, inc.
25 you would be doing the business of the people.
Thank you.
j (Applause.)
16,225 f
1-9-gjw 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mr. Mark Green?
i'
(~S
(_f 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT l
3 OF i
4 MR. MARK GREEN t
5 MR. GREEN:
Good morning, gentlemen.
Judges, Mr.
l 6
Chairman.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you l
7 today.
I testify-representing only mys' if and no constituents; e
8 9
-- not yet, anyway.
10 As-you may know, I have been a long time opponent 11 to the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant, long before Chernobyl, long 12 before Three ' Mile Island, I had said that nuclear power was unsafe, uneconomical, and unsuitabie for Long Island.
So, it 13 ja may not surprise you to know that I am here today to argue that 15 FEMA's test of LILCO's emergency evacuation plan was totally 16 inadequate.
Shoreham is, per se, unsafe.
It is unsafe in any 17 year, under any evacuation plan.
18 Shoreham is very simply a several billion dollar 19 mistake.
If operated, it would hold everyone on Long Island 20 hostage.
There could be no escape.
And look today what we read in the New York Times, how the best studies out of 21 22 Livermore now show that the amount of radiation released because 23 of the Chernobyl disaster, exceeded that of all nuclear tests k] )
24 of all super power nations in all of prior history.
Can we Aeofeder:8 Rooorters, Inc.
25 run that risk again?
16,226 L
l-10-gjw l
i 1
i The NRC decision regarding the evacuation plan -will 1
)
' ultimately come down to two questions; one, will the Federal 2
3 Government, especially the NRC, override the assessment of every 4
county and state expert who considered whether an energency l
t f
5 evacuation plan for Shoreham is possible, They are unanimous, and I hope you acknowledge their 6
technical unanimity and; second, will the NRC set the radi cal 7
precedent of allowing a private interested party, the Long
~
8 Island Lighting Company, to usurp the proper role of s' tate, and 9
n) local, and if not Federal, public and safety officials.
This is ' a matter of fundamental Federalism, and of 11 12
. common sense.
First, those of us who live in New York know
()
thaththe Long Island Expressway is a contradiction in terms, i
13 I started living, by the way, in Long Island in 194 8.
14 15 You see, I am somewhat younger than the prior witness.
It 16 doesn't take too many missed meetings or Sundays spent cooped 17 up with our children in a car on the Long Island Depressway to ug know that that highway network is totally over burdened, even i
19 in normal circumstances.
The term, ' adequate evacuation plan I
20 in the event of an emergency at Shoreham,' is also a contra-21 diction in terms.
22 It simply can't be done.
The County of Suffolk has 23 said so, and the people of New York agree, and so do seventy-(jlh 24 five percent of the people who live on Long Island.
Ase emare a.oon n. inc.
25 These are the people who live here, and the people
16,227 1-il-gjw I
ex 1
who are responsible for the -safety here, and they know what l
b'-
2 they are talking about.
But the Long Island Lighting Company I
3 claims it can do what everybody else knows is impossible.
Theyl 1
4 claim they can safety and quickly evacuate Long Island in the 5
midst of a nuclear emergency.
But they don' t really explain 6
how they are going to move over a million panicked people 7
through highways that resemble parking lots even on a sunny 8
Sunday.
9 And the idea' that LILCO's staged tests of its own 10 plan can accurately test an evacuation plan on Long Island is 11 nothing more than an insult to the emergency preparedness 12 process.
It would be a dangerously misguided precedent to 13 allow a private company to replace state and local and county 14 officials in planning for public safety.
15 As Judge Guiler wrote in his ruling that the LILCO 16 Company does not have the authority to carry out an emergency 17 plan, 'LILCO ha's to realize that this is a government of law, 18 and not of men or of private corporations. '
Hired consultants 19 are not adequate stand-ins for public officers, and they are 20 not sworn to protect the health and safety of all of Long 21 Island, and they are no replacement' for law enforcement 22 officials.
23 So, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, I hope, will k
24 heed the unanimous view of public safety officials from Long m.--_.._.
25 Island and New York State that there can be no safe evacuation
16,'228 1-12-gjw I
plan for Shoreham, or you can side with LILCO, an interested l
(')
(/
2 party, and replace the authority of officials responsible for i
3 Long Island safety.
These herings and this. approval process 4
point out a fundamental flaw in the way we approve nuclear i
i 5
power plants in this country.
i I
6 The NRC should not have exclusive authority to decide l 7
whether an evacuation plan is adequate.
In our Federal system 8
of public safety, safety has always been the primary concern of 9
State and local government.
That is why there is no Federal 10 police force for example.
What we need more than merely, 11 important as it is, a proper decision from this Commission, i
12 from you gentlemen.
Congress instead needs to establish a j
l
/
\\
s/
13 balance between Federal, state and local authorities in 14 approving nuclear power plants.
15 State and county governments potentially affected 16 by a nuclear power accident should have concurrent authority 17 with the NRC to approve an evaucation plan.
Were I in 18 Congress, for example, I would introduce legislation which 19 would not permit the NRC to overrule state and county opposition.
20 I strongly urge this Commission to heed the warnings of the 21 overwhelming number of both experts and citizens on Long Island,l 22 but I don't think we should have to ask.
Instead, our state 23 and county governments should be empowered to approve or l
kd h 24 disapprove the Shoreham plant.
That is the way we have always kwames noorms. Im.
25 dealt with local public safety issues in this country, and
-r
l-13-gjw 16,229 I
until the nuclear power issue came along; nuclear ~ power is y
)
simply.too risky.
The needs for safeguards are too great, 2
t And to allow Federal officials to totally override.
l 3
the concensus of experts and citizens in the vicinity of the 4
i 5
plant is wrong.
I think nuclear power is not only the Edsel of f 6
energy, it is inefficient; but I think it is the Corvair of energy, it is unsafe, as the Chernobyl tragedy showed us.
7 An earlier witness said that what you are doing is 8
9 shameful.
That is a pretty tough word.
I think what is 10 shameful is how some politicians meekly went along with the 11 NRC's arrongent pro-Shoreham position until they had election 12 year jitters.
It is fortunate that our State has had leaders 13 like Governor Mario Coumo, and the Shore' ham ' Opponents Coalition',
i l
14 to~ show the way on this issue, even while other politicians j
i 15 followed behind.
16 To conclude, I urge you to listen carefully to the 17 voices of Long Island today, which you will hear today and 18 this week.
Please consider the facts, not the emotions, the 19 facts.
Think about Chernobyl and Three Mile Island.
Acknowledge how ofen and how strenuously we have pleaded our case, and 20 remember, we are the ones who will live with your decision 21 22 Thank you very much.
I 23 (Applause.)
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Assemblyman Thomas Bawaga?
Ase-7merm n.co,... inc.
1 25 i
-,.._-_-.,,,,-_m.
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...-,.--__,__.-._._-_e-
16,230 1-14-gjw
. LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT j
(')
h L
OF l
2 4
1 3
ASSEMBLYMAN THOMAS BAWAGA ASSEMBLYMAN BAWAGA:
Good morning gentlemen, Mr.
4 Chairman.
As the New York State Assemblyman representing the 5
Seventh Assembly District, which is located in the Western 6
l' portion of Suffolk County, and encompasses hamlets in two towns;;
7 Brookhaven and the town of Islip, and the ranking minority 8
i member of the Assembly Subcommittee on the Long Island j
9 10 Economy, I am here to respectfully request that you, the 11 NRC's Atomic Safety and Licensing Board, reject the emergency l
12 evaluation p'lan proposed by the Long Island Lighting Company, l
1 a LILCO, in the event of an accident at the Shoreham Nuclear 13 i
14 Power Plant.
In a recent poll conducted by Newsday, which incidental 15 16 gentlemen, I don't know if you reside on Long Island, but 17 Newsday basically is our only major daily out here, and it is a very pro-Shoreham, pro-LILOO newspaper, even that paper in a 18 19 poll found that in the event of an accident at the Shoreham i
Nuclear Power Plant, sixty-two percent -- sixty-two percent 20 of the two point six million residents of Nassau and Suffolk-21 counties would flee their homes even if they were assured by 22 the Long Island Lighting Company officials that they were safe. l 23 i
(( ) "
The LILCO evacuation plan is based on the fact that 24 Ase 48ederal Reporters, Inc.
most Nassau and Suffolk residents would stay at home in the 25
l-15-gjw 16,231 I
i I
case of a Shoreham accident.
O
\\J 2
Based on the findings of this poll, it is obvious 3
that this assumption on the part of LILCO's management is 4
totally false.
On any given day, the main road systems on Long l i
5 Island are always heavily congested.
This congestion occurs ll 6
even when ideal conditions are present; that is, good weather, j
7 no vehicular accidents, no breakdowns, and no road repairs.
f
, i, 8
Most main arteries on Long Island are currently I
9 being used beyond original design capacity.
Are in desperate i
10 need of repair, and must be upgraded to meet normal traffic l
l 11 demand patterns.
Many of the road systems on Long Island were l
i 12 built curing the years of Robert Moses, many years ago, when I
'(s~1 i
13 population factors were a lot different than they are in 19 86 i
14 Even today many of us, many public officials, Federal, 15 state and local, are calling for a fourth lane on the Long 16 Island Expressway, and there has been renewed interest in a
-17 cost cound bridge, from the normal traffic demand patterns.
l!
18 Does anyone honestly feel that any evacuation plan 19 could be implemented on Long Island in the caqe of a serious 20 nucle ~ar accident?
If such an accident were to occur, the l
21 reality is that the roads on Long Island, due to hundreds of 22 thousands of people fleeing at the same time, would suf fer 23 almost immediate grid lock, resulting in the entrapment of l
([ )
24 thousands of people on the roads as well as those remaining A
4e== noon.n. w.
25 in their homes, i
1' l-16-gjw 16,232 -
l l
e, 1
The first responsibility of any elected official
,~
k-is to represent the best interest of a constituency he or she 2
}
3 has the honor of serving.
Most certainly, I. would hope that f
4 any Federal or state agency has the same obligation.
To do
~
5 what is in the best interest of the people that would be 6
affected by this ill-conceived nuclear power plant.
7 Seventy-four percent of the people of Long Island l
8 do not want the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant to open, because 9
they know among other things that no evacuation from Long l
10 Island is possible.
t 11 This paper evacuation plan being proposed by LILCO l
and cartainly not in the best l, 12 must be rcjocted as not feasible,
'A 13 interest of two point six million people on Long Island.
I 14 Thank you, gentlemen.
15 (Applause.)
16 JUDGE MARGULIES :
Congressman George Hochbuckner.
17 18 19 20 l
21 i
'22 23 k
24 Ass-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25
16,234 1-17-gjw
^
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT l
,r"%
's-)
2 OF 3
CONGRESSMAN GEORGE HOCHBUCKNER 4
CONGRESSMAN HOCHBUCKNER:
Thank you gentlemen for I
5 the opportunity to speak to you.
I am the former assembleman 6
for ten years representing in the area in Suf folk County of 7
which over a hundred thousand people reside within the ten l
8 mile radius of the plant.
I 9
On October lith of 1984, President Reagan made a I
10 commitment to the people of Long Island, and I will read to you !
I 11 from the letter tha the President did, in fact, deliver to my l
12 opponent in 1984 when I ran for Congress.
The commitment said: I C
As) 13 This administration does not favor the imposition of Federal 14 government authority over the objections of state and local 15 governments in matters regarding the adequacy of an emergency 16 evacuation plan for a nuclear power plant such as Shoreham '
17 I assure you that the state and county governments are absolutely plan for the Shoreham nuclear power 18 opposed to any evact.
19 plant.
20 So, consequently, in light of the President's commit-21 ment of 1984, and the absolute opposition of state and county 22 government to an evacuation plan, it seems very clear to me 23 that we shouldn't even be here today.
In fact, eighty percent (J
)
24 of the people of Long Island are opposed to that plant.
O te r AceJeder'A Reporters, Inc.
25 a million people oppose that plant.
16,235 l-18-gjw g
ei i
1 We certainly opposed the February 13th FEMA drill.
Inq o-
[~)
L 2
fact, why was it held?
Why are you even here today, in light l
\\-
]
3 of the President's commitment:on this particular issue, not to
.l 4
impose an evacuation plan?
5 We can only conclude that either the Republican i
6 Administration in Washington made a meaningless commitment, or 7
that you are here knowingly violating the commitment and the n
1 direction that the President has stated that the Federal l
8 l
9 Government will take,
l 10 We insist that you draw from the courage of Frank p
11 Patrone, the former regional director of FEMA, and stop this 12 hearing process and stop Shoreham.
On behalf of the people of i
, ("T Nl Long Island, I ask you to heed the commitment of the President, i 13 I
14 and to reject the imposition of the evacuation plan.
i 15 Now, I know that certainly LILCO has been out front t
16 telling people that if you don't activate Shoreham, Long Island !
17 will have brownouts and blackouts and we will have an economic l
I 18 catastrope on Long Island.
19 Let me assure you as someone who served on the 20 Assembly Corporations Authorities and Commissions Committee for 21 ten years that that is absolute hog wash.
There are many 22 alternatives to meeting the growing energy needs of Long 23 Island that exist right now.
I have made suggestions in writin
,)
24 to the President of the Company.
I have helped organize a f
(n wwere n. pan.e., inc.
25 petition drive that got the approval of the North-South i.
I
m 16 ' '~ 3 6 1-19-gjw g
t
~
p,.
I transmission line, so please don't worry about Long Island
()
2 running out of power.
We will not.
There are many alterna-3 tives.
I am at a tremendous loss to understand why 'this f
4 hearing is even being held, and I would like to close my 5
statement with a question and a statement, and as you on what basis are you here holding this hearing in light of the 6
President's written commitment of October. ll, 19847 Would i
7 someone choose to answer me why are you here, if the President i 8
t i
made this commitment and it has value?
9 10 JUDGE MARGULIES:
The procedure, sir, is to listen 11 to the witnesses, and we do not respond.
We will consider 12 it a rhetorical question, and then you may complete your.
l
)'
13 statement.
l 14 CONGRESSMAN HOCHBUCKNER:
I assume from your state-l 15 ment, then, you are saying that you, under existing Federal l
16 law, have a right to be here to conduct this hearing.
It seems to me by your mere presence you are refuting the Presi-17 18 dent's ability to make such a commitment.
19 So, I find that highly disturbing that we had a commitment from the President of the United States that would 20 21 be violated by an agency of the Federal Government.
I do hope that you consider the words that I have 22 23 spoken today and recognize the fact that there can be no 24 evacuation, that in fact we do not need the power from the essrei Reporters, Inc.
25 Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant, and I do hope that although I
'l-20-gjw 16,237 1
do not recognize your right to really be here to conduct the se
- ~
2 hearings in light of the President's commitment, I do hope 3
that in the final analysis you will take into account the 4
words that. you hear from the people of Suffolk and Nassau 5
Counties over the next few days, and you will recognize that i
6 we do not need that plant, we do not r.eed the power, and i
7 certainly there can be no evacuation.
3 8
Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
i 10 11 I
I End 1.
12 I
g 14 l
l 15 l
16 17 18 i
19 i
i 20 21 i
22 23 l
(
24 o.,,..,~.
25 l'
I l.
16,238 Sim 2-1 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Assemblyman William Bianci, 2
Jr.
O
(,)
3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4
of WILLIAM BIANCI, JR.
6 MR. BIANCI:
Good morning, gentlemen.
7 I appreciate the opportujity.to submit a state-8 ment concerning the evacuation plan for the Shoreham Nuclear 8
Power Plant.
10 As a State Legislator representing a part of 11 Suffolk County, I do not have any legis1tive authority 12 regarding the laws which the NRC and this Board operate 13 under.
- { >1%
- ij 14 However my district is the Third Assembly 15 District which is in Central Suffolk County southeast 16 of the plant.
!j As we all know, the Congress makes the laws 17 18 concerning how nuclear power plants are licensed.
My purpose d
19 in being here is to point out that it appears to me as l
j 20 a State Legislator that the NRC is not following this law 4
y 21 ma'ndated by Congress.
sr 22 When an agency does not follow the administrative 23 procedures set up by a legislative body, it is a violation 24
'of due process, and I believe that is what is occurring 25 today.
1
.. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ ~
W,TDM
.Sim.2-2 1
An agoney,-whether-Federal or Stato, cannot
. p.s 2
make one set of rules for a nuclear power plant in California h
3 and another set of rules for a nuclear power plant.here 4
on Long Island.
'5 It is unfortunate that legal action will most 6
likely be the result of these hearings which attempt.to 7
circumvent the laws set up by Congress.
a My second point that I wish to make has to do 9
with the new law establishing the Long Island Power Authity.
to As a sponsor of this law, I was pleased to support this t
11 legislation which not only seeks to stabilize electric rates 12 on Long Island, but reflects the will of the people of 13 Long Island that Shoreham is not opened.
14 The legislators on Long Island have spoken for 15 the people.
We ask you to respect the statement made by the
~
16 New York State Legislature and the Governor of the State by 17 not approving a license for Shoreham since our State law l~
-l 18 will close Shoreham.
j Ig We have spoken as a State and as a part of our i
Federal Government _I am asking you to respect our decision 20 a
in this matter.
21 I
Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 24 25
16,240 Sim 2-3 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Wayna Prospect.
u 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s
O
- ig 3
OF 4
WAYNE PROSPECT 5
MR. PROSPECT:
Good morning, gentlemen.
I almost 6
said ladies and gentlemen.
7 My name is Wayne Prospect and I represent the 8
15th Legislative District in the Suffolk County Legislature..
9 For reasons which this body is quite familiar 10
. Governor Cuomo and Suffolk County Legislature have decided 11 that State and local government will not participate in' 12 the drafting of an emergency plan for Shoreham.
13 For us to draft such a plan would be to perpetuate
)
14 a hoax on the public since almost all of Long Island believer 15 it is impossible to design an evacuation plan that could 16 be successfully implemented if there were a nuclear accident s
17 at Shoreham.
18 our unique Island geography and limited road.
g ig capacity simply preclude.it.
aj Consequently, the public health and safety could 20 a
d n t be protected in an accident and therefore the plant 21 i
should not be permited to operate.
That is the position of 22 G vernor Cuomo, that is the position of Suffolk County and 23 that must be the position of the Nuclear Regulatory Commissior.
24 (lh when your own rule book is applied to the Shoreham case.
25
16,241 Sim 2-4 1
Wa expect, indeed, wa demand that the regulations a,
2 of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission adopted in 1980 be 3
faithfully applied to Shoreham.
In a nutshell your regula-4 tions state no' local evacuation plan, no nuclear plant.
5 For the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to even consider.the so-called LILCO emergency plan is to perpetuate 6
I 7
a crude hoax on the citi:: ens of Long Island for these a
reasons.
g No.
1, the LILCO emergency plan is a phony plan.
in Not only can-this plant not be legally implemented according to the courts of New York State,.but LILCO cannot even claim 11 that its own paper plan is complete.
There is no reception 12 center because Nassau County has forbidden the use of the 13
' colosseum, and for LILCO to now forward and offer its own 34 corporate offices as a replacement for the colosseum is so 15 patently ludicrous that I cannot imagine how any thinking 16 s
individual could possibly take it seriously.
j 37 (Applause.)
18
- Secondly, there is no emergency broadcast statior g
f because WALK radio has cancelled its agreement with LILCO.
g a
d Thirdly, there are no. congregate care centers 21 ir because the Red Cross has agreements with none.
22 Fourthly, there are no arrangements to protect 23 school children because almost every school district has 3
passed resolutions not to have an emergency plan for
16,242 Sim.2-5 1
Shoreham.
2 In addition, the February 13th exercise of LILCO's
()
3 emergency plan was a sham.
The exercise did not test 4
whether the LILCO plan. protects 1 the public.
It only ran 5
through an unrealistic scenario.that'LILCO wrote for itself.
~
6 For example, when LILCO made believe that it was 7
telling the public by emergency broadcast system messages 8
to stay at home, its public relations operatives in the i
i e
emergency news center were saying there were absolutely no 10 spontaneous evacuation.
11 But in the real world, and according to the most 12 recent polling data by Newsday 62 percent, or more than 13 1.6 million people would spontaneously try to evacuate under
<( )
~
14 these circumstances.
I emphasize try because these people would end 15 16 up stuck in a monumental gridlock.
They would be irradiated j
17 by the Shoreham poisons from which they sought to escape..
18 And while on February 13th LILCO cynically made I
believe that it had evacuated 130,000 people in a few short y
jg h
a l
hours, by contrast in the real world last July a truck 20 a
d carrying mayonnaise had a routine mishap on.the::Logg' Island i
21 l l' Expressway and traffic came to a complete stop for five hours,
22 I
f and I would refer you to a Newsday story on that subject 23 where one accident paralyzed almost an entire island.
i 24
, ([ )
i The fact is that on Long Island people live in 25 i
i l
16,243 l
Sim 2-6 1
ths real world and not in a dreamland phantasized by LILCO t
2 on February 13th.
This real world is where the Licensing
()
3 Board's attention should be fixed and LILCO's new corporate 4
offices that it is suggesting be the new relocation centers 5
and replacement centers now force you I believe to reconsider 6
even the LILCO emergency plan such as it is because now 7
we have new places where people must go in an accident, and 8
I think the whole emergency procedure and the whole g
evacuation plan simulation has to be redone even according 10 to LILCO's logic and the logic of the NRC.
3i The regulations of the NRC lastly mandate that 12 a local evacuation plan be in place before a license can 13 be issued to operate a commercial nuclear plant.
Only a
s k) a Kangaroo Court would say that LILCO's emergency plan meets 34 NRC criteria for protecting the public health and safety.
15 The NRC may only be going through the motions 16
- j with this public hearing, but I assume you that Governor 37 18 Cuomo and the Suffolk County Legislature are not.
We mean business.
g jg More than the fate of a nuclear plant is on trial 20 here.
Democracy may very well be on trial in the Shoreham 21 i
case.
If the NRC is hell bent in throwing away its own 22 rule book by perverting or circumventing its regulations on 23 emergency preparedness, the State and the County are g
(f")
pledged to go into a Federal courtroom to uphold the rule 25 v
16,244-
~ of law and the principle of govarnmant of the people, by g
,7 i
the people and for the people.
2 Thank you very much.
{}
3 (Applause. )
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Nora Bredes.
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
OF 7
NORA BREDES 8
4 MS. BREDES:
Good morning.
Thank you for this opportunity.
My name is Nora Bredes.
I am Coordinator of.the Shoreham Opponents Coalition of a five thousand member, seven-year old group of Long Island citizens.
I am also.a teacher and a mother.
My ' family lives in St. James, 18 miles from Shoreham.
(
After the Chernoybl accident the nuclear j
15 industry's PR machine whet to work to try to convince us 16 I
that there were no similarities between American and Soviet
[
17 i
I nuclear power programs, that the technology was so different 18 E
that a Chernoyb1 could never happen here.
j 19 f
In fact, the work of this PR machine has had 20 i
l f
the opposite effect.
By claiming that it could never happen 21 I
i here, the industry exhibited the precise similarity between t
22 the two nuclear programs that will ensure a devastating 23 i
accident is bound to happen at a U.S. reactor.
24 You, and by you I mean the NRC, LILCO and others 25 i
f l
1 i.--,__m,w_,-
_.-.-e,_,. - -- _,~~- ~__,,v-r--_..-..
- ~_,
16,245 Sim 2-8 1
in tha industry and the Soviots shara a balief in your i
2 own infalibility.
You have been hoodwinked and blinded by
/
3 your own propaganda.
4 This February's Soviet Life boasted, and this 5
is before Chernoybl, "The odds of a meltdown are one in ten thousand years.
The plants have safe and reliable 6
7 controls that are protected from any breakdown with three 8
safety lines."
Compare that with what LILCO wrote in a newslette r 10 it sent to neighbors of the Shoreham nuclear plant in Janaury 1983.
"Shoreham was built and designed with many 33 backup safety systems in the event of a malfunction.
So it 12 is highly unlikely that an accident would occur."
13
' 7..s Again from Soviet Life, " Thorough studies con-34 ducted in the Soviet Uni.on have proved completely that nu lear p wer plants do not affect the' health of the 16 population."
g.
17 d LILCO, "An emergency preparedness plan for I
18 I
}
residents surrounding a nuclear plant is required by I
Federal law even though the likelihood of an accident j
20 d
necessitating action by the public is very small."
21 The similarities, gentlemen, are chilling.
This shared mind-set that accidents can't really
/
happy is what allows you to appear numb and even callous D'(3 to the real concerns of Long Islanders.
It encourages you 25
16,246 Sim 2-9 1
in a surreal game called LILCO em:rgancy plan in which you 3
2 play Judges to LILCO's exercise and in which all players i
3 become so involved in the strategy and the pieces and the 4
playing board that you forget you are effecting and risking 5
real lives.
Perhaps that is why LILCO's game was played 6
with such gaping holes.
Why try the game with the weight 7
and substance of reality when you don't have to worry about 8
a real accident.
9 Consider what LILCO left out, protection of 10 children.
No nursery schools, day-care centers, grade ij schools or hospitals were involved in the drill.
Neither 12 shelter nor evacuation.were tested.
Protection of adults, 13 no businesses, universities, hospitals, nursing homes or
([ )
campgrounds were notified or evacuated.
There was no 34 15 notification of the public, no sirens were sounded and 16 radio stations did not part'._pate.
17 There was no anticipation of evacuation beyond 10 miles.
No plans exist fo'r the 62 percent of Long 18 y
39 Islanders who told Newsday sociologists that they would G
i also evacuate.
20 3
d There are no plans for the influx of people into g
E the EPZ who will feel compelled to travel in to rescue g
families and pets before evacuating.
23 LILCO left us out, real people living real g
(jlh lives in real communities.
This hollow, dangerous game 25
16,247 Sim 2-10 1 l cannot ba allow d to stand as proof that wa could b e
2 protected during an accident at Shoreham.
)
3 If you truly want to consider reality, as you 4
judge LILCO's drill, you must accept the lesson of 5 l Chernoybl, of Davis-Besse, of Three Mile Island, of Browns 6
Ferry, of the Challenger.
Write five hundred times on your 7
mental blackboard human beings made bad mistakes and those-8 mistakes destroy even the most sophisticated safest g
technology which in turn destroys lives and life.
It can 10 happen here, ji Once you have accepted that, then examine what 12 w uld really happen in a Shoreham emergency.
All of us here on Long Island have.
13 (Jll When I first learned of the true extent of the 34 Chernoybl accident I was traveling home from a college where 15 I teach in Western Nassau County.
At 4:30 in the afternoon 16 37 when I made the trip, those 35 miles takes me two hours.
2 2
18 As I sat in trafffic I tried to imagine what ould do if C.5ernoybl had happened instead at Shoreham 19 a
?
that afternoon.
My two-year-old boy was at home with 3
20 d
a sitter.
My husband was in Philadelphia and not due back 21 3
E until the next day.
The sitter, a student at Stony Brook, had no car and expected a ride to campus from me.
What would I do, get off the Northern State Parkway, find a (jlh E
'"9
- 8 Y
25
16,248 phonne ware so overloaded that I couldn't reach my neighbor S
2-11 1
a mile away all weekend.
If I did reach the sitter what 4.
g f')
would I tell her to do, got to the basement until I got 3
v there?
My basement has doors that open to a carport and 4
drafty windows.
That would be no shelter.
5
^"Y "Y'
9*
""Y
- 8 6
would be trying to reunite before evacuating?
7 I will tell you, gentlemen, whenevever happened, g
I would never let LILCO traffic guides block my access to g
my child.
g As I say in the normally congested,. frustrating every-day Long Island traffice I plotted my own rescue and evacuation routes.-
I am sure it is an exercise that is 13
(}
drilled by thousands of L'ong Islanders and bears no i
resemblance to LILCO s game.
15 This is our realism argument.
This is the 16 I
only realism argument the NRC should consider.
17 2
Finally, I would like to leave you with a 18
[
small piece of this reality.
It is a snapshot of my son.
19 j'
Along with all the other evidence you collect M
g f
and weight -- emotion.
Excuse me, but emotions are also 21 3j facts that you should consider and you should weight this.
22 It argues that Shoreham shouldn't open and it reminds you 23 what you are risking if you allow it.
24 Thank you.
,p)
(m 2s (Applause.)
16,249 Sim 2-12 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mark Adams.
e.
2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
OF 4
MARK ADAMS 5
MR. ADAMS:
I am a little nervous in speaking 6
top the Commission, and I guess part of my nervousness was 7
touched on by the prior speaker.
It is a very emotional 8
issue.
9 I have an objective statement, but that I think 10 is what is causing me to swell up emotionally, and I think ij she touched n it very well.
12 My name is Mark Adams.
I and my family reside 13 in Corem about 10 miles from the Shoreham Nuclear Power fs
'i) 14 plant'.
I am social worker employed by the State of New s
York and I am using my own personal time allotted to me to 15 16 speak to you because I feel this issue is a very crucial 17 one.
18 My statement is as follows.
To me in a demo-t 3
g ig cracy three. main things are prevalent in regards to problems, a
using logic, being rational and understanding the law.
20 a
d If we feel the law is wrong, we try to change it systemically 21 i:
or creeatively protest its existence.
22 In the case of the Shoreham plant I am as angry 23 as my forefathers were when they participated in Boston 24 k})
Tea Party.
I am one of the 80 percent of the people on 25 w
g
..--W---e v
9.w.w.-m.'gi.
7
- g -
Sim 2-13 1
Long Island who do not want the Shoreham Nuclear Power
~2 Plant operating.
The law addresses this issue via your im 3
agency as to approval of a realistic evacuation plan.
',)
(
4 Hopefully you will do your duty and not circum-5 vent the law, or otherwise it will be obvious you are doing 6
so because of economics since the plant costs so much to 7
build.
8 Will you sell millions of lives for profit or 9
loss in lieu of money?
In the' vernacular it would blow 10 my mind if you approved the plant that has been deemed unworkable or doable and has no cooperation from government ji 12 in any way. My local police will not cooperate.
13 If you do, you condemn millions of people to
()
live in fear of death 'and/or radiation burns, cancer and 14 sickness.
You gentlemen have the power to provent this.
15 After the Three Mile Island disaster the law 16 s:
was established that a 10-mile radius around any nuclear 37 8
plant needed a realistic approved evacuation plan.
It is 18 aw obvious that this can occur only with th;e cooperation of j
19 i
1 cal and State governments.
It is ridiculous otherwise.
l 20 t
Chernoybl once again proved Murphy's Law, that 21 ir the improbable happening does occur.
A recent poll of 22 L ng Island showed that over 60 percent of our Nassau and 23 Suffolk residents outside the 10-mile evacuation zone would 24
([v"I immediate evacuate in case of an accident.
25
.~
m, - -
16,251 Sim 2-14 Gentlemen, you would surely ba remiss in the 3
short time you spend here on Long Island if you do not live e
2
(}
here not to try to navigate our main artery, the Long Island 3
Expressway which, by the way, ends at Riverhead, a good 4
ne nd a half. miles from the east tip of the island.
5 During the hours of 6 a.m.
to 10 a.m.
in the morning this highway is practically gridlocked now during those hours and it was predicted that there would be grid-lock in five years.
g Imagine an a ident at 7:30 a.m.
Surely we 10 all could predict what would happen.
We would all surely die and/or burn up since all the arties leading to the highway would be clogged due to thousands outside the 10-
/~T mile zone trying to evacuate.
Never mind the highway
(_)
14 practically gridlocked without an accident.
In conclusion, gentlemen, President Reagan 16 3
recently promised that the Federal Government would not 17 g
I impose an evacuation plan on Long Island and I even 18 4
[
believed him.
I don't know about that now.
My Suffolk 19 f
County and New York State Legislatures, my County 20 3
f Supervisor, Mr. Cohallen, my Governor, Mr. Cuomo, all have 21 s!
stated that an evacuation plan is not possible on Long 22 Island, and the plant should immediately be closed or 23 converted to another fuel.
24 Mr. Regan, the ther Regan, recently stated
16,252 Sim 2-15 1 Long Island could not be evacuated and he knew since he t
2 was a Long Island resident. -He stated there was not way
(~%s_)
3 off this island in the event of a nuclear accident.
Your 4
own Mr. Patrone agreed with this and cast a very dark -
5 shadow on your Commission by having to resign.
6 It is obvious the only people who will be able 7
to evaucate in time are those who own helicopters in their a
back yards or live on boats, and that is even conjectural.
9 You gentlemen have an historical chance to 10 right a grevious mistake.
In a democracy we can say some-11 thing was a mistake.
In a dictatorship it is a lot different.
You could tell people the emperor has clothes 12 when he doesn't.
13
()
Shoreham was built before an evacuation plan 34 was planned for It was to be done later.
We know now 15 it is impossible and local and State governments will not 16 cooperate with this idiotic and unrealistic and undoable
}
37 plan LILCO came up with.
18 5
Are you going to put the lives of millions of g
gg a
l People in constant pet il?
I just can't believe you will, 20 a
d I may be naieve about it, but I still believe what a 21 i
5 great President and his brother once said, that one person 22 can't possibly make a difference.
23 Thank you, gentlemen.
24
([)
l (APP ause.)
25
16,253 Sim.2-16 i
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Bob Zimmerman.
e, 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT p
(_).
3 OF 4
BOB ZIMMERMAN 5'
MR. ZIMMERMAN:
Good morning, gentlemen.
6 My name is Robert Zimmerman and I am from 7
Jerico, Nassau County, Long Island, and I am here both 8
for myself and Assemblyman Louisabolle.
g I am here today because today we are discussing n
10-a so-called drilled conducted by the Federal Emergency ji Management Agency.
That was a fraud perpetrated on the 12 People of my home county, Nassau County, and a fraud on all 13 of Long Island.
(7-(/-
14 Today we are discussing an evacuation plan th;_t 15 is a complete phony drawn up exclusively by the Long Island 16 Company for one reason only, to get a S5 billion boondoggle,
's k
17 the unsafe Shoreham plant into operation for the company's 18 own financial interests.
Ic g
ig We are discussing a plan that calls for the J
empl yees of-a private company to assume the police powers, 20
)
d police powers entrusted by our State and National Constitu-21 ti ns to the proper elected officials, officials who repre-22 sent the people, all of the people.
23 Our Founding Fathers must be spinning in their 24 h) graves at this departure from their vision of democracy.
25
16,254 Sim 2-17'1 What we have here in this LILCO plan now before e-2 you is in effect the creation of a private paramilitary
()
3 outfit, a precedent in this nation, a private army, if you 4
will, that will direct traffic, block traffic by rolling 5
heavy equipment onto the LIE that will entrap those residents 6
on the east end to their.own tragic fate.
7 I believe that this is a continuing insult that 8
this body did not dismiss this plan out of hand, and a further, insult that we are now seriously considering a 9
10 fraudulent drill of this plan'which is in actuality no 11 drill at all.
This drill is a sham.
Those are the words 12 of former FEMA Regional Director, Frank Patrone, who had 13 to resign because he held his ground'and refused to delete s/
14 from his official report his sincere feeling that he could 15 not give reasonable assurance that the public health and 16 safety can be protected in case of an accident at Shoreham, s
h 17 It is men such as Frank Patrone who refused to 2
18 march in lock step with the bureaucrats, but instead showed a
j
.19 rugged individualism that had made this country one of the a
greatest in the world.
20 a
d We live in a democracy where the vboice of the 21 i~r people and the voice of the officials elected by the people 22 are to be heard.
23 Pity the poor civic studies teacher on Long 24 (jlh Island who has to explain today or tomorrow or on other 25
16,255 Sim 2-18 1
clacs that dsspite th3' fact that the Governor of this 2
State, both U.S.
Senators, practically every member of the
(_
3 Suffolk County Legislature and many elected officials 4
throughout Long Island have publicly spoken out against the i
5 Opening of the Shroeham plant.
Yet here we are today still trying to persuade 6
7 this body not to issue a license for the operation of this 8
dangerous plant.
g Again, pity the poor teacher who has to explain this one to her class.
10 When we talk about evacuation plans there are gj some things that we do know.
The nuclear accident at Three 12 Mile Island did happen and the serious repercussions are 13
{j 34 still being felt.
There was not an evacuation plan.
2,500 people 15 were advised to leave the area and 40,000 took to the roads 16 in panick.
Proponents on nuclear power said again and again
}
37 2
after that accident that a nuclear power accident had never 18 caused a single death.
Many of us did not then nor do we 4
39 S
20 d
Then came Chernoybl in the Soviet Union.
We know g
E that at least 30 people lost their lives and that 94,000 people were evacuated from a radius of 18 miles from the g
plant and that according to Soviet scientists some of these (J
people were "never to return."
2g
16,256 1
Sim 2-19 Recently released scientific reports declare
.~
2 that the Chernobyl linked cancer may cause at 5,300 deaths.
/~
(_)T 3
Many scien'tists feel that the death rate will be much 4
higher.
5 Before Three Mile Island there was no evacuation 6
plans i the case of a nuclear plant accident.
Then there 7
was much discussion of a 20-mile evacuation radius.
8 In the case of Shoreham it was reduced to 10 8
miles and there was serious discussion I understand by this
O body to reduce the evacuation radius to three miles.
-11 In light of Chernobyl it is time to reverse 12 our thinking and look to a larger evacuation zone near all 13 nuclear plants.
~3 14 Despite Chernobyl the bureaucrats in Moscow 15 say that they intend to step up their dependence on nuclear power plants, but that is a totalitarian. state.
We live 16 j.
in a democracy, and the voice of the people still must be 17 18 heard, and you will hear that voice today as you have.
g I
18 I am telling you that the people on Long Island a
2j 20 know that they live in a democracy and you must make sure J
f 21 that they can count on that fact.
I 22 They took to their government officials to do 23 what is~right to protect the health and safety of all.
24 Only the very foolish or the very selfish would sincerely k) 25 maintain that a Chernobyl cannot happen here.
Human errors
16,257 Sim 2-20 Incidentally, 1
know no geographical or political boundaries.
2 neither does radiation.-
( ~).
(,
3 Let me urge you gentlemen today to relieve the 4
fear here and in other areas of our nation.
Let me urge 5
you to set a national example on the licensing of all 6
neulear power plants of this nation by denying the Shoreham -
7 plant a license without a realistic truly tested evacuation 8
plan with local government participation.
9 In the case of Shoreham no evacuation plan will 10 ever work on Long Island or can never be proposed with any degree of integrity or sincerity.
~
33 12 Thank you.
13 (Applause. )
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Monica Dolan.
)
34 LIMITbD APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 s;
MONICA DOLAN 37 5
MS. DONAN:
Good morning, gentlemen.
18 My name is Monica Dolan and I live in Great 4
gg J
River, Suffolk County.
20 3
d LILCO's evacouation plan should be rejected g
r by the NRC.
Since LILCO's plan was a paper plan where the public did not participate, where hospitals, schools, 23 nursing homes, et cetera, did not evacuate, it should be
^#8 "9"
25
16,258 Sim 2-21 1
LILCO would be assuming police powers which t
2 rightfully belong to the local government.
Logically the t
'_/
3 local government would be the best administrators of any 4
type of evacuation on Long Island because they have the 5
authority and expertise.
6 Many school districts have already testified 7
before the NRC that an evacuation of the schools would be 8
impossible and that it would take at least five and a half 9
hours to transport the children home.
10 Recently several schools districts had voted to 11 remain out of out of any emergency planning for Shoreham.
12 Also the teachers, other school personnel and bus drivers 13 have said that they would first attend to their own family
,)
14 members and in order to leave the zone surrounding the p3 plant.
16 As the population, together with industry,
=
17 is significantly increasing eastward on Long Island cur 1
18 highways are clogged with many bottlenecks and accidents ie g
pg causing additional tie-ups.
?
With the deregulation of the trucking industry 20 I
we-have seen a startling rise in the number of truck
'j 21 i
related accidents on the Long Island Expressway sometimes 22 stalling traffic for a few hours or the closing of the 23 Expressway for a couple of days becuase of a snow storm.
24
(}lh It is appalling ~to hear that LILCO assumes that 25
16,259 Sim 2-22 1
the State and the country would simply follow the LERO plan j
and automatically proceed with a very complex matter of 2
(_)
3 evacuating about 130,000 people to LILCO sites no less 4
located in Bellmore, Rosslyn and Hicksville.
This is truly 5
adding insult to injury.
6 Imagine trying to shelter these people in 7
centers of uncertain origin and monitor and decomtaminate 8
a potentially large number of people in trailers in a matter of 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />.
9 ig There are no provisions made in the LERO plan to evacuate the patients at the hospitals in the 10-mile 11 zone.
Instead, LILCO plans to advise the hosptials to 12 13 merely shelter the patients.
)
What about the people outside of the 10-mile 14 zone?
Surely they will try to flee.
The public must be 15 reminded that sheltering in our homes does not keep us jg safe frm the effects of radiation.
37
?
However, LILCO has other plans for us.
Their 18 plan calls for a blockade of the roads to prevent people j
19 a
from using the highways so that the traffic flow of the f
evacuees would be more easily facilitated.
21
.3'i Presently there are few accommodations'for burn victims in Suffolk County.
If there were a serious accident at the plant there would be a tremendous lack of (lh eds,.grovisions for decontamination and experienced 25
16,260 Sim 2-23 1
personnel to handle such victims.
2 Have we not learned from Three Mile Island
()
3 and certainly Chernobyl?
Will the Polish, Finnish and 4
other nations now agree with at 10-mile evacuation plan?
5 We must ask ourselves if we must bail out LILCO 6
at the risk of having another Chernobyl?
7 We have been informed by our Congressmen that 8
the Defense Department is pushing to have the Shoreham 9
plant opened.
Of course, we need the plutonium in order to to build more bombs.
Is not our stockpile of nuclear bombs.
11 large enough to annihilate the world countless times over?
12 There are safer forms of energy available to 13 us.
Let us use them.
Our President promised that he would h)s,
(_
14 not force an evacuation plan upon us.
We are asking our 15 President to honor his commitment and not permit this 16 plant to open which we consider unsafe.
I 17 We are depending on him to make a decision in e
I 18 affirming. life and generating hope for a better future for j
-19 us and for our children,.
k 20 Thank you.
t 21 (Applause.)
22 J DGE MARGULIES:
Jeanne Clark.
23 24
)
25
16,261 Sim 2-24 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT e.
2 OF I) 3 SISTER JEANNE CLARK:
4 SISTER CLARK:
My name is Sister Jeanne Clark.
5 I am Dominican Sister whose Mother' House is in Amityville, 6
Long Island, and I am a Parish Minister'at St. Mary's Church 7
in East Islip, both in Suffolk County.
8 It is hard to multiply words here today because g
sometimes when words are multiplied we stop hearing.
10 What I would just like simply to say here 33 today is I hope that you hear.
It is hard for me to say 12 anything more than Nora Breed said, although I don't know Nora and I had no idea what she whould say today, but maybe 13 q_)
34 if we just took her testimony and left it~at that maybe we would hear what the people of this country are saying 15 and especially the women and the children.
16 3
In a democracy often even the children are not 37 heard.
I would like to speak today for the children and~
18 i
to say that I don't want to talk about evacuation because j
19 i
l I believe that we, all the children of the earth, have a 20 a
d right, a human, a basic human right to an environment that 21 I
does not have.that risk, to a human environment.
22 And just the fact that today we are forced, 23 and I use that word " forced" to speak about evacuation from g
(lh ur mes because of something that we are thinking about 25 putting here, we are ourselves craating the problem, not
<ry p.
a 4*-t w.p-,
-.yu-
_s w..-..
=-w
+-*r*,
.y-
16,262 Sim 2-25 1
a foreign government and not an outside army calling us a.
2 to evacuate, but from within we are being asked to think
( )<
(_
3 about evacuating our homes.
4 Already we have created an inhuman environment 5
for the children because they are fearful and many of them 6
live without hope.
They have no hope in adults.
7 We tried to solve the drug problem again 8
through the military solutions.
A military solution cannot
~
g solve it.
There could be a solution today to try to create 10 human envirnoments and world environments.
Chernobyl not ti could happen here, but Chernobyl has happened here.
The i
12 earth has been damaged forever and that' fact will not go 13 away.
)
Unborn' children will be influenced by Chernobyl-14 15 already.
Chernobyl has happened here and when will we learn 16 that we live in a world, that.we are a world community, sj 17 and I a not just speaking about evacuation from Suffolk 18 County.
8 j
ig I do not want nuclear power plants anywhere no the face of the earth and neither do the children.
I would i
20 I
f C
ask you to listen to the children.
21 i
E (Applause.)
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Arthur McComb.
23 24
()
25
16,263 Sim 2-26 LI.MITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8
2 OF 3
ARTHUR McCOMB-MR. McCOMB:
Gentlemen, I am Arthur McComb 5
from Lake Ronkonkoma,.and this has been my home area for 6
my whole life, for 73 years, except, well, the first 7
few years in Brooklyn.
8 I address you and say the recent so-called 9
evacuation test for public evacuation was no test, and 10 a proper one is not possible.
4 11 The insistence of NRC that a workable plan be 12 in place'is in fact the evidence that horrible disaster 13-is possible and is then prima facie evidence that rules k('T
(>
14 out the use of fission nuclear plants anywhere.
15 It is far better to convert to coal, gas or 16 -
other power or to abandon before a loss that could exceed
[
17 50 billion, not to mention the loss of life and a cancerous y
future of living dead.
18 3
j 19 Expert testimony under oath has it that i.
l 20 meltdowns and plant leakage of ionized radiation can never d
21 be' ruled out as long as fission is used.
t 22 I address you with no naivette, having heard 23 licensing sessions and others like them many times since 24 1969 and know it is grasping at straws from obious per-I k()
25 sistence to overcome local resistance.
I knew we would
16,264 Sim 2-27 1
maat again.
2 Suicidal bent of hom-sapiens gave us Three Mile
)
3 Island, Kerr-McGee, Tsuruga, Browns Ferry, Idaho Falls, 4
Fermi, Windscale, Chalk River and now Chernobyl among other 5
siuch accidents.
Odd how quickly the Russian name Chernobyl 6
became an international word, pronounced fluently and burned 7
into all memories.
8 I am not naive.
I am beginning to know what 9
to expect, but I cannot be blamed for hoping that sound 10 reasoning and compassion will burst through like summer 11 sunshine after too much rain.
32 The change from pro-fission is spreading like 13 a prairie fire of dried grass and must inevitably get to
( )
14 the reason of the Yeducing numbers of those in favor of nuclear fission.
15 16 In my opinion, anyone who holds in the face h
17 of smothering evidence that nuclear fission plants and t
18
' subsequent needed evacuation plans can be safe and satis-E g
39 factory has a total criminal and pathological disregard a
f r the truth.
20 t
Life in the paths of plumes from growing 21 i
numbers of plants worldwide would all be dead from deadly 22 gamma rays and life in its periphery badly damaged from the 23 shortened span of life each could expect.
24 (jlh Also, waste disposal endangers any community 25
16,265 J
Sim-2-28 it moves through to its resting place, and that wasta l
1 s.
2 growing daily has a half life of many thousands of years
)
for our' prosperity to deal with and to die with.
3 4
Our selfish generation leaves that horrible 5
heritage just to use.unlimiting air conditioning and monster 6
advertising signs and street and parking lot lights often 7
on most of the day plus other wasteful use'of power, hardly a
necessities.
9 (Applause.)
10 Yet, we dawdle and piddle with red herring 11 evacuation plans, plans that are trenchant evidence of the existence of hazards too grim and grizzley for previous 12 human life.
But one matter remains untreated, getting 13 i
(h dead bodies out of the plume area, dead bodies which.now A) 14 m
spread death and sickness when handled.. What to do with 15 this menace which had been-loving life!
Shall we leave 16 them to rot?
We need hearses and ambulances.
It might h-37 be better that they were left to rot.
The plume area is h
18 useless for years.
j.
19 i
Tuesday, 9/16, WABC new report -- same "O" ring l
20 5
failure of space shuttle disaster could plague fission 21 i
Z plants.
Saturday, 9/20 WBZ Boston said " Governor refused 22 evacuation approval, communities near Seabrook plant in 23 New Hampshireare too dangerous for the public."
And there 24
([)
is a PS, a quote by Newsday of 9/21/86 of Massachusetts 25 l
.w
--w-m.--
..w.,,-,-u
,,,p.,
-4, e.---
mn-e,,.
16,266 l
-Sim 2-29~
1 Dukakis.-
"There simply is no evacuation plan that can 2
protect public safety."
()
3 My home is 16 miles from Shoreham, just too 4
damn close.
5 I wote this book and copyrighted it and put it 6
out free.
I didn't charge.for it, and deliverd it to all 7
of the media and to the people who were the elected officials 8
who tend to this area.
" Plume is Doom" covers everything 9
from 1970 when I started attending all of these hearings 10 until 1984.
The whole story that you heard today is in 11 my book.
It is not for sale, 12
( Applause. )
13 One thing, I am now~ working as a volunteer
,()
14 fireman with the Fire Department with FEMA's radiological 15 monitoring and there are some very interesting _ things that 16 back up everything that I have said in what they are s
h 17 teaching us and how to handle an incident that might is happen as an emergency crew.
g tg
.Thank you, gentlemen.
a (Applause. )
20 2
i end Sim
~
21 jSuo fols 22 23 24 25
16,267
- 3-1-suew 1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Regina Romanchuk.
2 LIMITED APEEARANCE2S.TATEMENT 3
OF 4
REGINA ROMANCHUK 5
MS.
ROMANCHUK:
My name is Regina Romanchuk, and 6
I live on Shelter Island.
This would be the scenario if we 7
entrust a utility like LILCO with a nuclear plant and evacua-Si tion plan, LILCO, devoid of any appitude, that cannot maintain l
9l
.its utility now.
It is a foregone conclusion, and we all i
10 agree, it would be only a matter of months and there would 11 be a nuclear accident at Shoreham.
12,
LILCO's evacuation plan, the population of the
)
13 North Fork of Long Island is supposed to escape through 14 Shelter Island, my home.
There are only four North ferries.
i I
15 l Each ferry carries 12 cars plus foot passengers.
16 It takes 20 minutes to make a round trip plus load-17 j ing and unloading time if the ferrymen sacrifice themselves and i
18 remain to pilot the boats.
Perhaps Mr. Vilicker could pilot 19 one ferry and Mr. Katakacy Knoose could pilot the other ferry.
20 That is, if he isn't on vacation.
21 (Applause.)
22 There is no allowance made for refueling the ferry, 23 which takes 30 minutes.
There is no allowance made for car i
-(ggg 24 break-downs or the fist fights that ensue when drivers attempt
-_..,,u.i neoorten, inc.
25 to cut in on a ferry line that is now backed up for 30 miles
16,268
- 3-2-suewt from Greenport to Riverhead.
I don't think you really know
,,( )
2 where these locations are.
Perhaps you should study an Atlas l
3 and you would see.
4 Do you gentlemen know where Greenport is or where 5
Riverhead is?
You are supposed to be in Riverhead on 6
Thursday.
7' LILCO takes it for granted all citizens will be' 8
polite, patient and prudent.
One summer week-end, there are 9
four to six thousand people on Shelter Island.
LILCO's plan 10 I calls for us to wait until the North Fork has evacuated to the 11 South Fork.
Working parents will have no trouble locating 12 their children.
Residents of nursing homes and patients in TA
((vi 13 hospitals will have to spritely jump up in full vigor, stop i
14 l taing ill and be ready to flee, never to return.
15 Because, remember, nuclear contamination is forever.
l 16 '
You cannot wash it or throw it away.
There is no such place 17 as away.
No one can take the precious momentoes of life like 18 l photographs, toys, pets, bikes, dogs, clothes on the wash line.
19 I Ask those who have seen the towns around Chernobyl.
The 1
20 picture of desolation is just as I described, down to the neat 21,
rows of vegetables in the kitchen garden that no one can return 22 to harvest.
I 23 {
When my daughter, now 12 years of age, has mis-24 carriages, has babies with birth defects because she was eral Reporters, Inc.
l 25 exposed to LILCO radiation, I will send her to you gentlemen
16,269
- 3-3-SueW 1 for emotional support, for medical treatment and for financial
(
)
2 aid.
She will ask you why did you allow this plant to open
.,1 3
when there is no escape, no evacuation plan for an Island where 4
all rows dead-end in the water.
5 (Applause.)
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Catharine Black.
7 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8
OF 9
CATHARINE BLACK 10 MS. BLACK:
Good morning, gentlemen.
My name is 11 Catharine Black.
I am a retired teacher of Shelter Island, New York.
My home is located 28 miles from the Shoreham plant.
12 l
[)
13 Egress and access is depending upon two ferry. companies and thei_
v 14,
employees.
15 !
I speak as a ten-year commuter, travelling between l'
16 l Nassau and Suffolk Counties, who understands the traffic t
l 17 problems of the South Shore of Long Island, because I went 18 back and forth to school.
I 19 Most nuclear plants have been based on the 20 j assumption that accidents require evacuation or other pro-21 dective action out to a maximum of 10 miles, that nearly all 22 impacts would be contained within 50 miles.
However, the 23 Chernobyl accident shows that the potential dimension of a 24 serious nuclear accident tends to be substantially greater, eral Reporters, Inc. '
25 Long Island's geographic features are such as to
16,270 g
,#3-4-SueW 1j render it impossible to evacuate.
The LILCO plan to evacuate l
(j; 2
Shelter Island is impossible.
Waiting periods of.two hours
~
3 for the ferry are not uncommon.
l 4
Assuming the ferry captains remain on their post, i
I 5
it is physically impossible to move many people at the rate of l
l l
6l 12 cars per ferry trip, taking 15 minutes each, and all four 7;
fbrries running at the North Ferry.
Add to this, all the Bi residents of Shelter Island attempting to evacuate by the South t
9 Ferry, as LILCO has planned, the amount of people has now 10 swelled by at least one thousand or more residents.
Three j
11 South Ferry boats, shuttling between Shelter Island and North 12l Haven,providing the captains stay with their boats, cannot h) 13 ;
evacuate as fast as the North Ferry.
14 l The only automobile route along the South Shore is I
15 -
Sunrise Highway, and LILCO wants to take the Sunrise Highway 16 !
route.
It passes within 10 miles of Shoreham.
All other i
17 routes, such as the Long Island Expressway, are much closer I
18 to Shoreham.
19,
The east end of Long Island cannot be handled by l
20 l one. highway.
This highway, when handling regular week-end 21,
traffic at this time of the year, is lined up bumper-to-bumper I
22 j at a stop and go pace.
Any further amount of vehicles would i
23i cause the traffic to come to a complete stand-still.
24 Most of Long Island is but 15 miles wide, a narrower
.,e Recon.n inc. )
25 !
distance than was evacuated at Chernobyl.
Long Island is too
LW,2 EVE l
13-5-SueW l
.long and narrow, and a state cannot be made in two directions.
(,)
2l Anyone who says Long Island can be evacuated is a liar and l
r.
3li must have an ulterior motive.
4' (Applause.)
5l It is a physical impossibility.
Now, gentlemen, I 6
have two and a half F.inutes left of my time.
And I would i
7j like to yield it to Mr. Romanchuk, if I may.
8 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mr. William Romanchuk.
9l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 10 ;
OF l
11 !
WILLIAM ROMANCHUK i
i 12 l MR. ROMANCHUK:
Good morning, gentlemen.
My name
(('N) 13 l is William F. Romanchuk.
I represent the five eastern towns I4 l and part of Brookhaven senior citizens.
And I see before me l
15 several senior citizens if I?m not mistaken.
i 16,
I do want to call attention to you about the i
17 i previous speakers that brought up the resignation of Frank 18 !
Petrone, the Regional Director of FEMA.
It only goes to show I
19 you how far the nuclear bureaucrats will go to license 20 j Shoreham.
21 Ordered by Washington to change his report, a 22 report that strongly indicated the Agency, FEMA, could not 23 give reasonable' assurance that the County's population would i
24 '
be protected.
Now, this coercive action is reminiscent of al Reporters, Inc.
25 when former Chairman Palladino of the NRC was playing musical i
16,272 ~
~ ~ ~~
- 3-6-SueW 1 chairs with his members after an initial MRC panel had re-t
()
2 jected a license for Shoreham.
3 On May 10th, 1981, two years after the Three' Mile I
4
. Island plant massive meltdown, the NRC seems to minimize this.
I 5
.I-don't know why.-
It has been seven years and not one kilowatt 6
aof electricity has been produced by that striken. plant.
On 7
May 10th, 1981, the Presidential Nuclear Safety Oversight 8
Committee reported to President Reagan that the NRC and its 9
agencies did not have the experience or the competence to 10 manage atomic power stations.
Shortly thereafter, this Presi-11 dent -- and I am a Republican, gentlemen, remember that --
1 12 !
sabatoged the crucial safety principles mandated in the Atomic
()
13 Energy Act of 1954 by abolishing this most vital committee.
l 14,
Clearly, Mr. Reagan murdered the messengers that' i
15 j brought him the bad news.
Today, this President aids and 16 abets the nuclear industry and sanctions the unleashing of 17 his federal nuclear canines against the county and state in 18 his resolve to illegally license Shoreham,'despite the absence 19 of a feasible evacuation, a prerequisite for licensing.
l j
20 Is this conspiratorial action under the guise of 21
" international interest" justified in keeping with the 22 President's sworn oath of office to protect and defend the i
23 Constitution?
And, if the Constitution is not for the people,
l 24 for whom was the Constitution written for?
The special j
W Roomn. W.
25 interests?
I say no.
l l
,.-n-
.m.
n,-
r-
---,--.,._----,,,_,..,-,na mne-,,,-.-ow-sw mme r v v
1 16,273
[#3-7-SueW 1 A parallel can be drawn between the Shoreham
()
2 deficiency and the'seven brave, unsuspecting. astronauts aboard 3
the Challenger who were obliterated because of a non-existant 4
or silent safety program.
5 Gentlemen, I_must tell you in all candor that the 6,
NRC is a national disgrace.
i 7
(Applause.)
8 If you have done as much research as I have, you 9l would come up with the same conclusion.
During the meltdown 10 at Three Mile Island, the NRC's noticeable lack of high level 11 competence and poor stumbling performance has been well i
12 substantiated and documented.
()
13 On that note, I am reminded, for example, gentlemen,;
14 of the words of James Cummings.
And I am quite sure you know 15 who he is.
He is the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Inspector 16 General.
When queried about violations within the NRC, he 17 responded:
"If disciplinary action resulted from every screw-18 up..." -- and this is the word that he used --
"If disciplinary-l l
19 action resulted from everr A rsv up in the NRC, few of us l
l 20 would be around."
Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
l 21 The NRC adheres to Peter's principles for the way 22 you promote an individual to the level of his incompetence.
23 The administration in Washington, replete with ties to the 24 utilities, gentlemen,are engaged in a deep and pervasive power ei n.oonen. inc.
25 play to protect the nuclear industry at the exorbitant expense
16,274
,#3-8-SueW j
and safety of the citizenry in question of power.
And I
-(])
2 respect this man's quote, wrote Thomas Jefferson, he said:
3 "Let no more be heard of competence in man, but bind him 4
down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
5 You people are not even elected.
You are appointed.,
6 You are politically appointed.
You are not even elected by the 7
people.
Impeachment proceedings of a president have been-8 initiated but once in our country's history.
Charges can be 9
10 brought by the House of Representatives on abuse of discre-11 tionary powers from improper motives.
We submit the licensing i
i 12 l of the Shoreham facility.will constitute prima facie evidence
((])
13 of a nuclear'co'nspiracy to ignore and violate the statutory laws pursuant to the-Energy Act of 1954.
14 15 And, I want to call attention to a letter that was 16 sent by Richard Willard, who is the Attorney General, from the 17
~U.
S. Department of Justice that was sent to the Honorable 18 Gregory Blast, presiding officer of the Suffolk County i
19 Legislature.
In it, he indicates, " Pursuant to the statutcry 20 scheme, which Congress established under the Atomic Energy 21 Act of 1954, the NRC has the regulatory responsibility...."
22
-- has the regulatory responsibility -
"to ensure the 23 radiological health and safety aspects involved in the 24 construction and operation of nuclear power plants."
neoonen, inc.
25 So, what kind of nuclear hypocrites do we have in
16,275
- 3-9-SueW 1 Washington that use this very same Atomic Energy Act of 1954 r~m
(
)
2 to force the state and the county to accept the illegal s-3 evacuation drill, a prerequisite to licensing?
Yet, at the 4
s ame time violate the very meaning and mandate of this law 5
by willfully ignoring the crucial safety aspects of the law.
6 In conclusion, gentlemen,.I want to say to you 7
that the people of Long Island are sending a strong message 8
to this President and you people'in the Atomic Safety and 9
Licensing Board.
We will not be intimidated and relinquish 10 our inalienable right to protect ourselves and the principles.
11 of democracy.
Neither will we meekly submit, as the' good i
12 j people of the Ukraine at Chernobyl have to their Soviet masters
('( )
13 and allow ourselves to be nailed and crucified by the cross 14 l made of uranium.
15 l Thank you.
I 16 (Applause.)
17 l JUDGE MARGULIES:
James Markotsis.
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
.: n.oon.n. inc.
25
f 16,276
,#3-10-SueW1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT O
2 or 3l JAMES MAFXOTSIS 4
MR. MARKOTSIS:
Good morning.
My name is James 5;
Markotsis, and I reside in Hicksville.
Hicksville is in 6
eastern Nassau County about 35 miles from Shoreham.
I repre-7j sent no assembly, district or congressman.
I am merely a 8
citizen who has seen LILCO in action for many years.
i
=
9l I live across the street from their main head-10 quarters in Hicksville.
In no way have I seen actions on 11,
'the part of LILCO which assure me that LILCO can act responsi-12 f bly.enough to operate a nuclear power plant, supervise an 1
(()
13 evacuation, or tell us the truth.
I 14 !
(Applause.)
15 l As a resident of Hicksville, I was appalled to 16 l find out that Hicksville High School was used a congregate i
17 ;
care center for LILCO's mock evacuation back in February.
18 First of all, most of us Hicksville residents will not remain i
19 !
in Hicksville.
20 l LILCO has its headquarters in Hicksville, and we 21 don't trust LILCO for a second in Hicksville.
22 Second of all, this decision was made without any 23l approval of the Board of Education or the citizens of i
24 Hicksville.
I would like to read a letter to you from the el Reporters, Inc.
25 Superintendent of Schools, Dr. Catherine Benton.
It's
16,277
,.#3-11-SueW1 addressed to Mr. Morton Margulies of the Atomic Safety and f
()
2 Licensing Board and was served June lith, 1985.
" Dear Mr.
1 3
Margulies:
It has come to my attention that Hicksville 4
public school has been; improperly designated by the Red Cross 5
as part of an evacuation plan for 2,400 people in case of 6,
a radiological emergency at the Shoreham Nuclear Plant.
i 7'
Permission was granted by the Board of Education in 1975 for 8
the use of our schools by the Red Cross in the event of a 9
natural disaster.
Including our schools without any knowledge 10 to the Administration and the Board of Education for such a 11 joint venture with the Shoreham Plant does not meet with our i
12 l approval.
Use of our schools by the Red Cross is hereby I
O(
13 withdrawn.
As always, our school district will respond to s
\\. v 14 public need and we will be willing to discuss the needs of 15 l' our residents at some future time.
Signed, Catherine Benton, 16 Superintendent of Schools."
17 l Now, why was Hicksville used without any permis-18 sion of the Board of Education?
This was written in 1985, in 19 June.
And LILCO used Hicksville anyway.
20 And, why didn't LILCO tell us anything about this?
21
'What are they trying to hide from us?
22 The only reason I found out about this was by ac-23 ;
cident at Mark Green's Nassau County headquarters.
And, I l
24 don't think that that should be the source of such information.
9 neort rs. Inc.
25 Why can't LILCO tell us the truth about anything?
16,278 y#3-12-SueWI They were not prepared for Hurricane Gloria.
And, they are i
( )'
2 not prepared to run a nuclear power plant.
3 I would just like to add that I was pleased to see 4
Senator D'Amato finally saying something about Shoreham.
- But, 5
I wish he would have done something when people like myself 6
were out at Shoreham years ago protesting against it being 7
built.
I guess he was too busy collecting contributions 8
from LILCO, which he has now done six times.
9 (Applause.)
10 I guess elections and campaigns do things to II people.
I do applaud those politicians who have fought against 12 Shoreham since the 1970s, and I only wish there had been more
([])
13 of them with backbones rather than large open pocketbooks for 14 LILCO to fill.
15 Thank you.
16 ll (Applause.)
i 17 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mariam Goodman.
18 19 '
20 21 i
22 23 w neoorms, ne.
25
16,279
- 3-]3-SueW 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
b 2
OF v
3 MIRIAM GOODMAN 4
MS. GOODMAN:
My name is Miriam Goodman.
I live in 5
Huntington, 30 miles from Shoreham.
I 6l The stated purpose of the NRC's requirement for 7;
adequate emergency planning is to' carry out the statutory I
8 mandate to protect the public health and safety in the event 9
of a nuclear plant accident.
Intrinsic to'public health and 10 l safety is the prevention of early deaths and injuries from 11 acute radiation exposure and the prevention of latent deaths i
12 !
and injuries in terms of cancers, leukemias and genetic e
k#')
13 l!
effects from exposure to lower, non-acute doses of radiation.
ss 14 !
LILCO's evacuation drill was ineffective and in-i 15 !
adequate, not only because of many factors which I am sure I
l 16 will be, and have been, addressed by others here, but because 17 i it was based on the false premise that a 10-mile radius plume 18 l exposure pathway emergency planning zone can adequately pro-19 tect the health and safety of people on Long Island.
20 The Chernobyl accident in the Soviet Union has i
- 21 shown that escaping radiation knows no 10-mile boundary.
The 22 Chernobyl plume exposure pathway encompassed the whole world.
23 Fifteen days after the accident, radiation levels 24 36 miles from the plant were still 500 times normal.
A month el Reporters, Inc.
25 after the accident, there were hot spots'of radiation up to
16,280 y#3-14-SueN l' 60-miles north of Chernobyl in Byelorussia, which led to
()
2 further evacuation of thousands of people far to the north'of' l 3i the original 18.6 mile.; evacuation zone.
Three hundred and ten.
l 4
tlousand children from the northern Ukraine and from the 5l southern Byelorussia, including children'from Kieve, 80 miles 6,
south of Chernobyl, were evacuated to summer camps.
7 The cancer consequences of widespread radio' active 8
contamination of people, soil, food and water in 30 countries I
9{
at varying distances up to over a thousand miles from Chernobyl; I
10 '
were assessed in a paper presented at the national meeting of 11 the American Chemical Society on September 9th by John W.
f 12'
- Gofman, M.D.,
Ph.D., one of the world's foremost experts in l
.()
13 l the field of radiation and human health, i
14 '
Dr. Gofman, an independent scientist with no ties to i
15 !
the government or the nuclear industry, based his cancer i
16 ;
estimates on average radiation doses to the populations of i
17l affected countries, as well as on the whole-body cancer dose i
18 ratio he derived in 1981 after analyzing the world-wide l
19 human. evidence for cancer induced by radiation.
l 20 Calculations of doses were dependent on fallout l
21 data obtained from the World Health Organization and the I
22 U. S. Environmental Protection Agency.
His estimate of the 23 health consequences of the Chernobyl accident, a total of one L
24 million cancers and leukemias, half of them fatal, includes m neconm. inc.
25 cancers from exposure over time to gamma rays from cesium
i 16,201
- 3-]S-SueW1
-deposited on the ground and cancers from ingestion.of cesium 3
()
2 over. time in food and water.
This estimate excludes cancers j
3 from additional sources of exposure; that is, direct exposure 4
to gamma rays from the passing plume, internal dose from 5
radionuclides other than the long-lived cesiums 137 and 134 6
and inhalation and ingestion of radioiodine.
All these were 7
excluded.
s 8j The following are Gofman's estimates of the future i
9 toll of malignancies, country-by-country, with each figure i
10 l representing a total of equal numbers of fatal and non-l 11 !
fatal cancers:
Western regions of the U.S.S.R.,
424,300 i
12 i cancers; 8,760 leukemias.
Austria, 9,800 cancers; 200
((])
13 leukemias.
Bulgaria, 11,000 cancers; 225 leukemias.
i 14 I Czechoslovakia, 6,000 cancers; 125 leukemias.
\\
15 !
Finland, 8,900 cancers; 180 leukemias.
France, 23,600 cancers; i
16 )
480 leukemias.
West Germany, 78,800 cancers; 1,600 leukemias.
I l
17 j East Germany, 25,600 cancers; 530 leukemias.
I 18 l Hungary, 3,240 cancers; 65 leukemias.
- Italy, 19 !
12,200 cancers; 250 leukemias.
Netherlands, 1,280 cancers; I
l 20 l 26 leukemias.
Norway, 2,600 cancers; 55 leukemias.
- Poland, 21 71,400 cancers; 1,470 leukemias.
22 Romania, 132,000 cancers; 2,700 leukemias.
- Sweden, i
23 30,800 cancers; 630 leukemias.
Switzerland, 11,400 cancers; 24 '
240 leukemias.
Turkey, 36,000 cancers; 740 leukemias.
t m.s noon.n. w.
25 The United Kingdom, 27,200 cancers; 560 leukemias.
16,282
- 3-16-Suew I Yugoslavia, 31,800 cancers; 650 leukemias.
I ()
2 Estimates for Albania, Belgium, Denmark, Greece, 3
Ireland, Luxembourg, Spain, Japan, South Korea, Canada and 4
the U. S. A. each total.less than 1,000 cancers and Si leukemias.
6 No evacuation plan could have prevented these 7
staggering health consequences, nor can any evacuation plan, 8
let alone LILCO's plan, protect the health and safety of 9
people on Long Island in a radiological accident at Shoreham.
END 10 (Applause.)
11 I
12 :
i
(()
13 l l
14 l l
15 16,
i 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ei neponen, Inc.
25
16,283' 4 --l--g jw.
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.'r ?
j JUDGE MARGULIES:
Harold Goodman?
I s
t A
'O 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT -
3 OF 3AROLD GOODMAN 4
5 MR. GOODMAN:
I, too, live in Huntington, thirty" miles from Shoreham, and yet have great concerns over:.the effects 6
1 of Shoreham going on line.
7 I
The latest Newsday poll has shown that one million, 8
six hundred thousand Long Islanders would attempt to flee this 9
10 tight, densely populated island should there be an accident 11 at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station.
12 Even though I live thirty miles from ground zero, at r
the first reports of significant radiation release, regardless 13 14 of any LILCO assurances, directions, or instructions, my family and I will hit the road in an attempt to find sanctuary as 15 l
16 far from this menace as possible.
There is nothing-in the history of LILCO or in its i
17 18 recent behavior to inspire trust, or create credibility.
19 LILCO's motivation is not the health and well being of its i
20 ratepayers, but corporate profit and survival.
i 21 (Applause. )
1 The recent announcement of their proposed significant l
22 1
i 23 rate hike request once again demonstrates this arrogent single-h 24 ness of purpose.
In your deliberations on the effectiveness
- Ase-eedere neoor=r, inc.
l-25 of L1LCO's mock drill, you must remember than any such drill i
,,-.-,,,.,.-..,,--w_,
16,284 4-2-gjw I
i I
without local and state government participation is illegal, an d'
)
's 2
a mockery of any attempt to assure-public safety, i
3 To be realistic, you must accept the fact that Long 4
Island's limited and constricted east-west arterial roadways s
5 makes it impossible to evacuate the endangered populations within i
6 a reasonable time frame.
7 It does not take much to aggravate the already 8
impossible situation even further.
Ask any of us who use the j
I 9
LIE about the bottling up of traffic for miles by the mere 10 slowing to view a disabled vehicle at the side of the road, and :t-i 11 standstill created by fender-benders, not to mention the f
i 12 frequent accidents of a more serious nature, including tractor !
i 13 trailers turning over and spilling their cargo over the road.
14 Then consider the fact that the colisium is no longer 15 available for use as an emergency location center, that thirty-16 nine Nassau County public school superintendent's have written 17
-to the Red Cross and NRC, removing their facilities from 18 LILCO's evacuation plan for congregate care centers, by radio i
19 station WALK, who has removed itself as the primary broadcast 20 stati'on in LILCO's emergency plan.
21 Gentleman, the law according to Judge Guiler's New i
22 York State Supreme Court decision, there is no legal plan.
In 23 fact, there is no plan, since so much of LILCO's paper scheme I
l (( )
24 has unraveled since the February drill, and makeshift l
,n l
A= e.eers n.ponen, inc.
I 25 substitutions are being proposed.
16,285 I
4-3-gjw
+
1 Do not put our lives, our hopes, our future at risk A
2 by accepting this mockery of a drill z.s th'e way to escape the 3
tragedy and horror of the petential n'uclear accident at t
t i
4 Shoreham, an unwanted, unneeded, unsafe power plant, 5
Thank you.
i i
i 6
(Applause.)
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Will the cameraman change the 8
angle of that light, please.
Lisa Pollicino?
9 10' 11 l
1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 l
19 l
20 21 i
l 22 l
23 24 re Reconers, Inc.
25 l
, _, _ _ _.., _ _ _ _. _. _.___..., _ _ _ _ _ ~. _ _ _. _ -, _ - _ _ -., _ _. _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _. _,
16,286 4-4-gjw.
- ~
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT f
2 OF 3
LISA POLLICINO l
4 MS, POLLICINO:
I would just like to preface my 1
5 prepared statement by saying it is obvious that emotions are 6
running high this morning.
There is desperation and anger 7
in this room because we don't understand why we are still 8
'here, but we are.
9 (Applause.)
10 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Excuse me.
Would you please 11 change the angle of that light?
You may continue.
l 12 MS, POLLICINO:
The fact seems to have gotten us 13 nowhere, and as much as I want you to hear my facts, perhaps 14 it is time you start listening to our emotions as well.
I 15 My name is Lisa Pollicino.
I am the mother of four 16 pre-school children.
They are my pride and joy, and they are 17 my reasort for being here.
18 I am also a nurse at St. Charles Hospital in Port 19 Jefferson, ominously listed as one of the four hospitals 20 included within the EPZ of the LILCO emergency plan.
21 I work in maternity, rotating through the ' delivery 22 room, the post partum floor and the nursery, taking care of the 23 moms, the babies and sometimes even the dads.
They are my
()
24 reason for being here also.
Ae> Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I commute to St. Charles from Commack, an approximat@
16,287
'4-5-gjw 1
ten mile trip, which can take me anywhere from twenty-five i
\\
. fJ
\\
['
2 minutes to an hour, depending on my shif t, the weather, and 3
the ever fmnous Long Island traffic.
That is another reason 4
why I am here.
5 These hearings were set up to determine the l
t 6
adequacy of LILCO's evacuation drill of last February 13th.
l 7
I can assure you that the three reasons for my testimony here 8
today, f amily obligations, work obligations, and traffic, were 9
never taken into consideration by LILCO during that drill, 10 thereby resulting in a false, unrealistic conclusion that they 11 did, in fact, effectively and safely evacuate one hundred and 12 thirty-eight thousand people without even a hint of panic.
13 Let me first address my family obligations versus 14 my work obligations.
I am fortunate in having the luxury of 15 knowing my husband is caring for my children while I am at
]
16 work.
Most of my coworkers must rely on daycare or baby-17 sitters, whose actions during an incident at the plant have 18 also never been taken into consideration.
19 In case of an accident, I would at least have the 20 comfort of knowing that my children were with their father 21 in a familiar and hopefully calm environment, and even with 22 that reassurance, I cannot promise any of you gentlemen or 23 any of the supervisors at my hospital that I would stay at j
24 St. Charles knowing the possible dangers' I would be exposing Ase 4%deral Reporters, Inc.
25 myself to, and ultimately my family.
My husband and I hava
16,288 4-6-gjw t
I discussed this scenario, and while the NRC refuses to acknow-k' /)
2 ledge the shadow effect, this is one shadow I guarantee you 3
will see fleeing to be with my babies.
4
( Applause. )
i In the event of a serious accident where evacuation !
5 6
of hospitals is necessary, maternity, new born and pediatric 7
patients have been designated to depend on LILCO's 'ad hoc' l
implementation plans af ter everyone else in the area has been l 8
l.
9 evacuated.
However, that really doesn' t matter either, because 10 LILCO has no reception hospitals to which any of my patients i
i 11 could be directed to anyway.
l 12 In the February drill this blatant lack of hospital
(,f^)
I
\\/
13 participation, not even to the point of simulating the easiesti 14 scenario, that of sheltering the patients, must surely prove i
15 a major lack of preparedness and therefore require a rejection 16 of the LILCO Plan.
17 Let me add also that even if there were plans which 18 appeared feasible down on paper, I can assure you there wouldj 19 be a major confrontation in my jurisdiction.
Any incident 20 at 'that plant which would require notifying the public of 21 sheltering or evacuation would result in a chaotic, at the 22 very least upsetting episode in the maternity area.
i 23 I am dealing with a group of highly emotional and (lh 24 excitable new parents.
Most of these couples have just shared A= 7.eers n mn.,,. inc.
25 the experience of a lifetime, the birth of their child.
l l
16,289 4-7-gjw l
l i
1 If the baby _ so much as sneezes the wrong way, the i
s/
2 outpouring of paternal concern and protectiveness is very 1
3 predictable and understandable, fearing that something or
!l 4
someone is threatening this new little miracle of their own 5
creation.
6 I have a picture of these parents cooperating with 7
LILCO during an incident.
LILCO, the very ones who have just 8
leopardized this new family unit.
It j ust wouldn,' t. work.
9 With two security guards, 'we can barely manage to 10 clear the floor of visitors after visiting hours every night. i 11 Can you imagine the scenario should an incident occur and be i
12 made during this time?
Surely you can manage to see the 3
13 insanity of what LILCO is so casually depending on ad hoc 14 implementation of non-existent plans.
And if you can't, I 15 personally invite you to come and see for yourself.
It will 16 be more than any LILCO personnel involved in emergency 17 planning has ever done.
Not one administrator or supervisor 18 in my hospital has ever been contacted by LILCO regarding I
19 sheltering or evacuating of our population.
20 This is preparedness?
This is the plan we are suppose to feel safe with?
Well, I don' t feel safe, and I 21 22 will never again feel safe on Long Island if that plant is 23 granted a full power license.
Because I have lived and worked i
lh 24 on Long Island all my life, and I know what every Long wm n.conm, inc.
25 Islander in this room knows:
It is why we are here today,
l 16,290 4
4-8-JoeWal l
4 f
Io l'
and.why we keep coming back.
There is no way-to evacuate f
4 2
this island.
,c 3
(Applause.)
I i
4 We have all endured this Shoreham saga long enough. !
5 We have fought this battle by all the rules, your rules.
We 6
have won over County, State and seventy-four percent of the f
population by proving over and over again that our statistics,l, 7
j I
I 8,
our experts, and our own common sense all speak the truth, L
9 not LILCO.
10 We even. have the President of the United States I
11 promising he could not impose an evacuation plan on us.
i1 12 Well, if letting a privately owried utility get a 4
, C'O.
full power license based on their own inadequate and 13 14 illegal plan isn't an imposition, I don't know what is, i
j 15 We all live here, work here, play here and hopefully I
l 16 will grow old here.
We know our island.
Listen to us.
It i
17 cannot be done, and any attempt by LILCO to convince you 18 otherwise is a blatant disregard to the future of Long Island 19 and its people.
20 Thank you.
)
21 (Applause.)
)
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Eileen Newman?
i 23 24 woi neoon n, inc.
I 25
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4-9-gjw 16,291 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
/~3 D'
2 OF i
3 EILEEN NEWMAN l
4 MS. NEWMAN:
My name is Eileen Newman.
I live in t
5 Huntington, and I work in the Huntington School District I
6 as a librarian.
t 7
I have come here to present a realistic scenario.
8 If, in fact, you are considering licensing Shoreham based on 9
realism, let me introduce this for your consideration.
I 10 have spoken to a number of people, the majority of the ninety l 11 work in my one school, about what they would do in the event 12 of an accident at Shoreham.
l T
\\s 13
'All of those that I spoke to, again a majority, 14 said they. would instantly, and I underline the word, ' ins tan tity<
15 leave the school, do whatever they could to find their own 16 f amily, and attempt to escape from Long Island.
17 If we now multiply the number of people in that 18 one school by all the schools on Long Island, and all the 19 offices, and all the homes, we have an expressway filled to 20 the brim with panic striken citizens.
21 (Applause.)
22 Newsday's most recent survey showed that over half 23 to three-quarters of the people in Nassau and Suffolk would ll 24 leave their homes in the event of an accident.
The people A e.o.o n. con.n, Inc.
25 who live here and deal with the traffic delimma of access
-. =
16,292 4-10-gjw i,
I f "'
I to and from this island knew there is no escape.
These peoplej' L
2 also know that radiation does not stop where the NRC or LILCO 1
3 wants it to, ten or twenty miles away from the plant.
Che rnoby[
i.
l 4
has taught us that.
5 We on Long Island also know, unfortunately, another 6
fact.
That is that the NRC does not consider human life 7
before its commitment to nuclear power.
8 (Applause.)
l 9
If there were no bodies immediately visible at j
10 Three Mile Island, there certainly were at Chernobyl.
I wish 11 that I could believe that you would make your consideration 12 based on human safety, as I think of my own child and the 13 children close to me.
Most of my friends and my family and 14 my students, I wonder how you can condemn them and sentence j
15 them to the possibility of radiation sickness and death and 16 still sleep at night.
l 17 (Applause.)
18 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Robert Haderson?
Evidently you 19 didn't sign the sheet.
20 MR. HADER:
My name is Hader.
I put my name on i
21 one sheet, maybe not the other.
22 i
1 23 l
b
. C.
.d Reportert, Inc.
25
=
16,293 4-il-gjw 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEFENT p.
V' 2
OF 3
ROBERT HADER 4
MR. HADER:
Idon'thaveapreparedstatementright{
1 I just figured I would come and use a few of my minutes !
5
~ now.
6 of time and put some thoughts out.
7 I live about four miles from the plant, in a town 8
called Ridge.
My wife, my daughter and my house.
We try 9
to take care of the house nice, I think like most of the f
~
10 neighbors.
11 We don't think the plan is safe.
There is any 12 kind of way to get out of here.
I travel approximately l
w 13 twenty-five thousand miles a year in my car, most of the 14 time on the LIE. Most of it is stopped.
My wife works at the 15 Shoreham school now.
She would leave if there is any kind 16 of problem, and go to pick up my daughter, and I can say now i
17 if anyone got in my way of getting to my family, they wouldn't, 18 be alive after it.
l 19 And I think that is true of probably ninety-nine 20 percent of my neighbors.
Everyone always talks about how 21 they would get out of the area.
People with four-wheel' drive 22 trucks, how they drive over the other cars, go around them, i
23 people with the motorcycles, I don't know.
I would get I
24 on the expressway, get on any road I could, and try to move.
Aso Peder2 Reporters, Inc, 25 I don't think I would get too far.
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I don't have the luxury that these other people have that
(
2 have spoken before me, that lived a little bit further away, 1
3 and it is not great.
The evacuation plan that they have i
4 got so far, the way it stands now, they may as well just tell 5
us to put our heads between our legs and kiss our butts 6
goodbye, as the saying goes, f
7 It is no good.
8 (Applause.)
9 If you have any doubt that people would not just l
l 10 do what they have to do to get out, I think you are mistaken I
i 11 and not looking at the facts.
People don't want to be caught l i
12 in a traffic jam.
People don't want to be told to wait your l 13 turn because someone else tries to go before you.
People 14 are going to get out of there, j
15 Thank you.
16 (Applause.)
17 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Barbara Levy?
18 19 20 21 22 23
(
24 l Am-FWord Reporters, Inc.
25
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4-13-gjw 16,295 6
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT j
O
't) 2 OF 1
3 BARBARA LEVY 4
MS.
LEVY:
Good morning.
My name is Barbara 4
i Levy and I live in Huntington Township, approximately twenty 5
I i
miles from the nuclear plant.
6 In March 1982, Newsday published an article 7
e entitled, 'Lilco Plans for the Big Rocket.'
g In that article, LILCO set the emergency evacuation 9
z ne back two miles.
The Chernobyl disaster forced evacuation!
10 l
of children for more than one hundred miles.
LILCO picked ij I
a convenient figure of two when reality demands one hundred.
}
12 Who can trust LILCO in the event of a nuclear accident, when 13 its record is that of ignorance, incompetence, distortion of l
34 l
15 f acts, and outright lies.
LILCO's incompetence was shown less obviously in the 16 disasterous mishandling of emergency created by Hurricane j
17 Gloria.
Their lies were revealed in a Newsday article.
In it 18 LILCO outlined its plans for Central Suffolk Hospital in 19 Riverhead for a radiological isolation unit for plant workers.
20 Incidentally, they never mentioned a word about the rest of 21 22 us.
I guess we are supposed to be immune to the effects of radiation.
23 24 The point is that there are very few doctors and we n. con.ri anc.
25 nurses specialized in this area.
Moreover, only
i 4-14 -gjw 16,296
- l I
twenty to thirty hospitals in the U. S. are outfitted with ll (G
this special equipment. needed, yet' LILCO would have us believef
/
2 J
3 that a small hospital out in Riverhead could do the job.
f 4
Where is the credibility?
Who would trust LILCO l
5 with their lies?
I am sure that you gentlemen would not.
6 In a worst case accident at Shoreham, early fatalities alone f
7 would be -forty thousand, with seventy-five thousand injuries, !
8 and thirty-five thousand cancer deaths.
Forty thousand.-
9 Seventy-five thousand.
Thirty-five thousand, and this is 10 just the beginning.
11 These are not lottery numbers.
Each one represents 12 a human being.
Many of these numbers refer to us in this 13 room.
We are being told to f ace the possibility of unnecessary 4
14 horror simply because LILCO insists on profiting from its f
15 blunder.
16 Well, I am telling you that we the people of Long 17 Island shall not accept this ever.
The people in this room i
18 and those who are attending the other two meetings represent {
i 19 a small percentage of Long Island's population.
Thousands 20 will not attend because they are scattered all over Long I
21 Island because they are working men and women, school children, l
22 mother's attending infants and small children, and elderly 23 people, unable to navigate well.
l
(
24 Yet, all of us will miraculously remove ourselves l
m neoran, w.
25 from the island, by uncongested roads, or stay put in robot-
16,297 4-15-gjw l
l 1
like obedience, according to the evacuation of last February
(
)
2 concocked by LILCO.
I 3
However, let's suppose that some of us were able f
4 to escape.
Where would we go?
When, if ever, would it be f
5 safe to return.
Can anyone honestly and intelligently down 6
to a fixed point in time in which our food, water and air 7
would be safe?
I 8
I think not.
9 (Applause.)
10 Smoothly flowing traffic, and sensible roads, Il noexisting panic.
Totally preposterous.
No rationale human f
12 being could accept this lie.
Can it be that the NRC is even 13 considering the possibility of this farse?
Why?
If they 14 feel that the permanent closing of Shoreham will hurt the i
15 nuclear industry, quite the contrary.
If Shoreham were 16 allowed to operate,
the inevitable serious accident would 17 not only be detrimental to the nuclear industry, it would i
18 also place the NRC in a vulnerable position.
According to i
19 an article in the October issue of Redbook, NRC predicted a 20 twelve percent chance of a sevt.re nuclear accident in the 21 U. S. within fourteen years.
Is this why last January the 22 NRC proposed raising exposure limits of radiation to those 23 human organs that are most susceptible to cancer risk?
24 According to Carl Morgan, a retired member of the Aes Federse Reporters, Inc.
j 25 International Commission on Radiological Protection, the
4-16 -gjw 167298 l
l 1
NRC has.made changes in the way it calculates the risk, and f
'l'"#
2 these changes are protecting the nuclear industry, but not, 1
3 unfortunately, the public, end quote.
j 4
Wouldn't it be wiser for the NRC to investigate our 5
. presently operating plants than to push the opening of a poorl'y 6
constructed plant in Shoreham, doomed to certain disaster?
7 Af ter Chernobyl, hearings on NRC's proposed new 8
standards were postponed, but not cancelled.
If the NRC i
t 9
is counting on the public's short memory, they are mistaken'.
10 We shall never forget Three Mile Island.
We shall never 11 forget Chernobyl, nor shall we forget the accidents that 12 occurred 'inbetween.
However, we also remember when the NRC I
i (T')
13 interceded on our behalf in questioning the legality of 14 LILCO 's authority.
4 15 We appreciate this action, but the purpose of the 16 NRC should be to regulate the nuclear industry.
The people 17 in Washington must realize that a real danger exists for 18 them as well as for us if a serious. accident was to occur 19 in Shoreham.
Please remember that shortly af ter the Chernobyl 20 accident, the radiation level in the U. S. became comparable 21 to those during the height of nuclear bomb testing in 1952 22 and 1953.
23 If an accident approximately six thousand miles
(
24 away in Russia had this effect on our cows and milk, what Ac>lBederal Reporters, Inc.
25 would be the effect on the people in Washington, af ter a
16,299 4-17-gjw I
1 similar accident at Shoreham, a mere two hundred miles away?
i t
2 I emplore you, the members of the NRC, to seriously {
3 consider the awesome responsibility _ that your position demands.
4 You must impose upon the nuclear industry the highest standards L
5, of quality and control, and most important of all, we must I
6 work together to preserve not only our island, but every other 7
region, so that our country may remain strong and safe for I
8 ourselves and for further generations.
i 9
Thank you.
lp 4
10 (Applause.)
l End 4.
11 i
12 13 1
14 15 i
16 17 9
18 l
t 19
[
20 21 22 23 i
- O 24 Aes-Federal Reoortees, Inc, 25 l
i I
_. _ _ _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _ _.. _ -.. _ _. - ~.. _ _
16,300 Sim 5 1
- JUDGE MARGULIES:
Robert Gaffncy.
a, 2'
(No response. )
k%)'
/
3 Lisa Lay.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5
OF 6
LISA LAY 7
MS. LAY:
Good morning, gentlemen.
<8 My name is Lisa Lay and I am a resident of 9
Smithtown.
10 I am one of the many Long Islanders who had 11 the grueling experience of commuting on the Long Island 12 ll Expressway as well as other main roads during our " rush'
~ '
13 hour1.50463e-4 days <br />0.00361 hours <br />2.149471e-5 weeks <br />4.9465e-6 months <br />."
This means being one of the many commuters stuck j
14 in bumper-to-bumper traffic for approximately two hours 15 in what should be a 30-minute trip.
16 Now after having tried to escape traffic by 37 experimenting no the few alternate main roads leading is to and from Long Island, I have succumbed to the fact that I
g ig heavy traffic is a part of life on Long Island.
J l
However, it is apparent that as the Long Island 20 a
d traffic does greatly increase, the patience of the fellow 21 Ir commuters that I drive with does decrease.
I have seen 22 23
- many, many men and women driving in a total wreckless manner simply because they are tired of just not moving.
24
()
Now let us imagine for one moment that Shoreham 25
.w, cy.
-..,,,,._,-,_-e.,
..._-,-,_~.e
..m._. _.. _ - -, _. _,. - -,,., -. -.. _. -, _. -, _.. - - - -.. -. _ - - - -. _
16,301 sim 3-2 1
was in fcet op ned and an cmergency evacuation situaticn t.
2 developed, as it inevitably will.
With as many evacuation 3
centers that are set up, it would be human instinct to try 4
and escape from a life-threatening situation and thus 5
creating fear and hysteria.
i Also, please note that right now the worst 6
7 traffic jam is basically people commuting to and from work.
8 In the event of a nuclear accident our roads would be bom-9 barded, not only by daily commuters, but entirely families 10 and communities hastily leaving the island via the few main arteries we have.
It simply cannot be done.
it Long Island would be crippled with total chaos 12 13 and gridlock.
Now LILCO with its emergency evacuation plans kb_J and tests cannot expect people to respond as robots, nor 14 can they simulate the utter fear and hysteria that would 15 inevitably ensue.
16 There is no way that LILCO can stop human beings f.
17 I
from being human and trying to save their lives, nor can 18 they provide us with four or five more main arteries so l
19 s
that we can at least have a chance to exit the Island.
20 f
All LILCO gives us is their tests, their 21 i
statistics and their figures.
Well, they will no longer 22 delude us.
Let LILCO know we have been pushed too far.
23 Lives won't be lost at the epxense of their financial gain.
24
(
h We cannot and will not take any more.
25
16,302
.Shu 5-3 1
Having grown up-here, I cannot allow this e,
2 beautiful island to be destroyed by an inept, mismanaged 3
utility.
'I implore'you to realize that LILCO's motives are 4
not in the public's interest for the majority of the 5
public doesn't even want Shoreham, t
6 We the people of Long Island are already paying 7
a very high price for power, and in that sense we have 8
paid for the right to refuse a power plant, a power plant 9
that is right now being subsidized by our money.
10 Please don't allow'it to also be at the expense 11 of human lives, for that will be the ultimate cost.
12 Thank you very'much for your time.
13 (Applause.)
14 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Anthony Schaffer.
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 t
ANTHONY SCHAFFER 17 18 MR. SHAFFER:
I am a life-long resident I
a g
3g of Suffolk County and it is nice to get five minutes.
i One week ago today on the Lcng Islend Expressway 20 a
d two trucks collided and an oil spill resulted that closed 21 s
2r down all eastbound lanes of the LIE for a distance exceeding 22 11 miles.
After three hours the police were able to open 23 one lane to start letting a few of the tens of thousands 24 of afternoon rush-hour drivers to' start moving again, 25 1
16,303 Sim 5-4 I
Now this is really big news, right?
Are you L.
2 kidding, here on'Long Island?
In the next day's edition of O
3 Newsday, which is our daily newspaper, that is as much as 4
they wrote on it, on page 35 the very last section of its 5
news section that day, the same page they have the obituaries 6
Why?
Because an unbelievable, gigantic traffic 7
tie-up on the LIE is not that newsworthy here.
We are so 8
used to it.
9 You people from out of this area, you don't' to seem to understand.
So we are going to resort to simple 11 motor skills and I am going to show you photographs.
These 12 are representatives photographs of traffic jams on the LIE 13 under non-panic conditions resulting from a collision, an e
.p k-14 cil spill and in one case a mayonnaise spill.
15 (Applause.)
16 (Showing photograph to the Board.)
g 17 T'his is not unusual to us on Long Island,'and 1EF this is our major escape route.
How would you like to be g
c j
'19 in the middle of that sucker or your wife or your children i
l 20 under panic situations?
a 21 (Showing photograph to the Board. )
3*
22 Here is anotner one, and this is not the same 23 traffic jam.
These are all different.
These are repre-24 senatitive shots printed in Newsday over the last five, six O/
25 or seven years.
How do you like that.
16,304 i
Sim 5-5 1
We are used to this.
i i
2 (Showing photograph to the Board.)
l t
i 3
And what does LILCO's escape plan say about l
trying it in three feet of snow.
4 i
I 5l (Applause.)
j i
6l How would you or your wife and children like i
l to be in the middle of that fearing radioactive contamination 7
I 8 I (Applause.)
9 Just your average, everyday humongous traffic 10 Jam on the LIE.
11 (Showing photograph to the Board.)
12 Here is still another one.
Everything backed 13 up.
e r-k-
14 (Showing photograph.to the Board. )
15 And in July Murphy's law came true.
We had a traffic accident that totally tied up the eastbound lanes 16 t
and another traffic accident that totally tied up the h
17 westbound lanes for hours and hours and miles and miles 18
- a w
19 in both directions at the same time allowing Newsday to i
run this front page.
"THE DAY THE LIE STOOD STILL."
f 20
?
S (Applause.)
21 s.
No panic.
Nobody fleeing.
Nobody scared stiff 22 to save his wife and his children and himself.
This is 23 just average rush hour traffic and an accident occurs, a 24 (h
slimy mess of an overturned mayonnaise truck near the 25 Glen Cove Exit, and it creates a five-hour ordeal for 1.
16,305 Sim 5-6 1
motorists -- thousands, baloney -- tens of thousands.
2 j This is what it is like here for us under t
'/
3 l non-panic conditions.
t u
4 l Now, look, if you fellows are like the ones
'l 5 j who declared that ketshup is a vegetable, then this :ncie l
6l thing is a farce anyway.
But if you are men of inte'_ licence i
l and integrity and independence, then there is only one 7
conclusion that you can reach and look yourself in the 8
mirror and talk to your grandchildren about how you worked 9
for the Federal Government and that is that there is no 10 escape from Long Island on an emergency basis, and
- j Shoreham is Looney Tunes.
12 (Applause.)
13 Cl.-d/
Don't open it.
j4 (Applause.)
15 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will take two more 16 S
speakers before the luncheon recess.
They will be
{
37 Barbara Governally and Frank Caracini.
18 g
t igl Barbara Governally.
l
'E LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 20 O
OF 21 3
8r BARBARA GOVERNALLY MS. GOVERNALLY:
Good morning, gentlemen.
23 My name is Barbara Govbernally.
I live at 3
<x 2 Richie Court, St. James, in the Township of Smithtown.
(,)
25
16,306 1
I have been'a resident-cf Suffolk County for Sim 5-7 e.
2 18 years.
I am a. wife and a mother of two.
I am also A/
3 the President of the Middle Island Teachers Association, a 4
union of 650 teachers in the Longwood School District in 5
the Brookhaven Township.
6 This is a.very large school district which has 7
8,528 students and it covers 54 square miles.
This 8
district that Ia the president of the union in abuts 14 9
other school districts, one of which is the Shoreham 10 School District.
The Middle Island Teachers Association voted in 11 12 1984 to oppose the opening of the Shoreham Nuclear Power 13 Plant until such time as a workable evacuation could be
. s(
14 designed.
15 Today our teachers still belivee that a safe 16-evacuation plan for the peopl'e of Suffolk County has not 2j 17 been and can never be devised.
18 My union of 650 teachers has voted not to requirq our teachers to remainin the schools in the event of a j
ig i
nuclear emergency.
We know most of our teachers'would leave 20 a
f immediately to try to reach their own families.
21 i:
Our teachers-will not drive the school buses 22 as called for in the LILCO evacuation plan ---
~23 (Applause.)
24
()
--- t take our children away from the schools.
25
I 16,307
.e This last, however, is a moot point anyway
-Sim 5-8 1
becuase the buses won't be there when the accident cccurs 2
,e.
-( l) unless coincidentally the accident should occur at a time 3
when the buses were already lined up at our' school's doors.
Like most large school districts on Long Island, our district uses the same buses for three runs each way 6
}
every day.
Even if the bus drivers brought the buses no 7
,i the schools, which of the three runs would they do to 8
evacuate the children and which one-third of our students, 9
99 percent of whom are bused, would have a chance to ge:
10 out.
11 1
On Long Island this summear, as I know you have 12 heard repeatedly this morning, an overturned mayonnaise 13
[( )
truck tied up the Long Island Expressway for five hcurs.
- This was an accident divorced of the panel that a nuclear 15 accident would create.
What would happen if such an 16 accident occurred in the face of that panic during a g.
17 I
nuclear accident?
18 I
Gentlemen, please be reasonable.
The geography j
19 j.
I of Long Island prevents a workable evacuation plan of the 20 g
people of Suffolk County.
The teachers of the Middle Island.
]
21 j
Teachers Association know this.
22 In 1984 they convinced the New York State 23 United Teachers, our State Teachers Union, which has 24 over 200,000 teachers members, to back our stand and not NJ 25 1
i
16,308 1
to allow the Shoreham plant to operate without a safe 4 -
2
,1 and workable evacuation plan.
This is
. the New York 3
State United Teachers' position on this issue.
4 We hope that we can now convince You to take this position also.
6 Thank you for giving me an opportunity to sp.eak 7
here today.
8
( Applause. )
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Frank Caricini.
10 VOICE FROM THE FLOOR:
Judge Margulies, he 11 had to leave for an appointment.
May I take his place?
12 JUDGE MARGULIES:
The next speaker we have on 13
.j..
the, list is Mr. Leon Campo.'
We have a,whole list.
14 Is Mr. Leon Camp 6 here?
15 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 16 op i !
I 17 LEON CAMPO 18 I
MR. CAMPO:
I am Leon Campo, an active j
19 community participant educator,. parent and member of
. i.j 20 Governor Cuomo's'Shroeham or Marberger Commission which
/
21 stu' died the specifics of the Shoreham plant from a perspective 22 of economics and safety.
23 It is apparent that while government at the 24 local and state levels have acted consistently and prudently
(
25 regarding Shoreham, the Federal Government and its agencies,
16,309 Sfm 5-9 1
FEMA and the NRC, have bounced between acts which reflect a
2
-commitment to public safety and those which reflect a 3
clear well-being of LILCO at the expense of public safety.
4 Let me be specific.
Suffolk County Government 5
after spending S600,000 in 1982 and employing nationally 6
recognized experts to study the evacuation possibilities 7
for Shoreham, concluded that in the event of a Shoreham 8
accident that no. evacuation program would ensure the g
public safety due to the unique geography of this island.
10 Indeed, the Governor's Commission deliberated for six months with representatives of FEMA and the NRC ij participating as resource persons and concluded that Suffolk 12 County had acted responsibly, purdently and in keeping with 13
( its gbal as government representives of the people.
We further concluded that from the standpoint.
15 of siting that Shoreham was a mistake, :that LILCO was not 16 credible from either a construction management or nuclear j
97 i
management perspective.
18 3
-We also concluded that Shoreham's electricity
.g jg a
was not needed for this generation of Long Islanders.
20 3
l 5
Ironically if this plant were powered by anythinc 2f 3
E the'r than nuclear its fate, its abandonment would have 22 been assured years-ago and thereby saving everyone billions 23 of dollars of squandered sums,-an investment sum which 24 LILCO sole benefit represents double electric rates for k
25 l
l
~
(
310 Sim'5-10 1
Long Islanders.
2 Approximately 75 percent of Long Islanders
,/~3 i
i us 3
with their State and local government officials that 4
Shoreham should be abandoned, that public safety and 5
economics demand it and that Long Islanders cannot be 6
safely evacuated in the event of a Shoreham emergency.
7 But how about the Federal Government and its 8
agencies, FEMA and the NRC?
Have they acted in magnifying 9
LILCO's interests or in reflecting the well being of 10 Long Islanders?
Let's look at the record.
11 FEMA's Frank Petrone, a Regional Director 12 who has been commended for his work in evacuation planning 13 at other nuclear power plants, concluded that LILCO's 14 evacuation plan could not assure the public safety because 15 of the lack of State and local government partaicipation.
16 Mr. Petrone's forced resignation belies the s
k 17 transparent nature of decision-making at agencies originally 2
18 created to protect the people which are not simply pro-0 j
19 moting the best interests of utilities.
a f
Judge Geiler declared the LILCO plan, the LERO 20 4l 21 a nullity in this State.
It casnnot be implemented by a i*'
Private corporation over the laws of New York and the 22 Constitution of New York State.
23 This Licensing Panel apparently understood the 24
()
full ramifications of this decision.
Indeed, this 25
16,311
.Sim 5-11 1
Licensing Panel has already ruled in August 26th, 1985 on 2
the issue of legally implementing the LERO plan and'has
\\v 3
rejected a Shoreham license on that basis.
Score one for 4
honesty.
S However, the current. proceeding as from a 6
strange world, the World of Oz and the world of fiction, 7
and certainly not the world of reality, reconsiders now 8
this same LERO plan under the umbrella of something called g
realism.
Realism is a fiction and fraud and tells New Yorkers that its Governor has lied, that country 10 11 government has lied and that LILCO, an entity which has lost all credibility on Long Island is' truthful.
12 Under realism this same panel that denied 13
(
)
a Shorenam license and rejected realism as fiction in that 34 decision now considers handing the well-being of Long 15 Islanders over to a private utility which plans to escort 16 evacuees to trailers for decontamination, and which intends j
97 2
to house potential contaminees.in LILCO plants.
18 Your consideration of realism ts an affront g
jg t
the concept of elected government.
After all, realism 20 d
emphasizes that government lies but monopoly corporations 21 1
2 tell the truth and that your own decisions won't count 22 until you finally conclude in a fashion that benefits 23 LILCO.
24 r([)
LERO, always a fraud, is now a cruel hoax that 2s v
16,312 places our. safety up for sale to the highest bidder.
Sh 5-12 1
I am almost at the end.
Please bear with me.
,-(3l LILCO lied when it stated, for example, that 3
schools would be used for congregate care centers.
The 4
Red Cross agrees that it does not have schools in a congre-5 gate care inventory and further agrees that former Director Frank Rasberry who testified before you was not authorized 7
to testify to the contrary.
No resolution ever empowered Mr. Rasberry to testify in the manner he did and it was g
contrary to the position of the Red Cross.
What have you done when faced with the truth about our schools?
You refused to hear testimony which 12 shows LILCO to have presented a fraud as part of this
[]
licensing proceeding.
The official record does not show that there are 15 no schools to be used as congregate care centers.
What is 16 I
left of LERO at this point?
It was always a fraud, but g
17
.I what is left of it now months later?
Congregate care 18 g
0 schools?
Gone.
The Nassau Colesseum as a relocation
- j 19 y
center?
Gone.
WALK Radio, which is the voice of this 4
Island as an EBS station? 'Gone on that one issue alone y
21 l
and it should be enough for you to conclude and end 22 this proceeding.
No EBS station.
23 LERO is clearly a plan of LILCO, by LILCO and 24 for LILCO at the expense of the people of Long Island.
16,312 Sim 5-13 1
Integrity and every rule put in place after t
2 '
", y Three Mile Island ' demands and end of consideration of a
~
i plan that doesn't exist, of a fiction that defies reality.
4 You do not have a right to, nor will we ever 5
accept handing our children, our roads, our government 6;
and our lives over to a monopoly utility that has declared 7
" guerrilla. war" right from the words of the Ch' airman of 8
this company against the ratepayers, handing us over to 8
a company that refused to pay $130 million dollars in 10 taxes to a vested interest that could not restore power 11 after Hurricane Gloria for almost two weeks in scme cases, 12 to an entity which represents a shingin example of 13 corporate mismanagement.
()
%Cw/
14 The time is now to stop the game of let's 15 help LILCO and once again elevate the concepts of which 16 you gentlemen pledged to honor called public service 17 and public safety.
18 Thank you.
g O
j 19 (Applause.)
a E
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will stand in recess g
4l 21 until 1:30.
22 (Wherupon, at 12 Noon the limited appearance 23 session recessed to reconvene at 1:30 p.m.,
the same day.)
24
(
25
16,313
.~#6-1-SueW 1
A _F _T _E _R N _O _O N_
_P _R _O _C _E _E _D _I _N _G _S n(~/
\\-
2 (1:35 p.m.)
3i JUDGE MARGULIES:
Please come to order.
We will 4
continue with the limited appearance statements.
The next 5
person on the list is Frank Carositi.
6 (No response.)
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Jack Kulka.
8 (No response.)
9 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Anna Schilb of Sayville.
10 i (No. response.)
11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Francis Burke.
12 1 (No response.)
(]
13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Catherine Penny, Bay Port.
14 (No response.)
i 15 JUDGE MARGULIES:
B.
J. Klaus, Rocky Point.
16 MS. LETSCHE:
Ms. Klaus is the woman who spoke to 17 you before lunch.
She had to leave.
She asked me to tell you 18 l that someone is coming this afternoon to give you a statement.
19 JUDGE MARGULIES:.Thank you.
S. Shapiro.
20 (No response.)
21 JUDGE MARGULIES:
These are the people who had l
22 signed up for this morning's session, and we are calling those 1
23 first before we go on to the persons that signed up for the C
24 afternoon.
we neoonen, anc.
25 Price, Smithtown.
16,314
.#6-2-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3i LISA PRICE 4
MS. PRICE:
I am Lisa Price, Suffolk, County.
5 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We may be able to hear you better 6
if you would move the microphone closer.
4 7
MS. PRICE:
I just have a short statement.
I have 8
juFt attended a conference, The Year 2,000.
And they were 9
concerned about the population increase, which is estimated 10 to be 300,000 by the year 2,000.
So, in just 14 more years 11 most of the population increase will occur on the east end or i
12 l right where Shoreham is situated.
(hh 13 According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, 14 an accident is possible.
The Chernobyl plant did have a I
15 i ccntainment, one similar to 39 plants designed by G.E.
in this 16 country.
Like the Chernobyl accident, the containment could 17 l rupture.
At Chernobyl and at the G.E. Mark I and II, the i
18 visible outer structure is not -- the containment has little 19 1 capacity to withstand pressure.
l 20 This is from a longer statement and a lot of the 21 same things mentioned earlier, and I'm not going to repeat it.
22 But, I can see no possibility that evacuation 23 could be at all possible with the increase in population
(}lg 24 that will occur within this area.
Am.Fe(seral Reporters, Inc.
25 Thank you.
With the remaining time, I would like
16,315
,#6-3-SueW i to share my time with Elsa Ford, h) 2 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Has Ms. Ford signed up?
Yes, she 3i has.
She will be called in turn.
4 Robert Gaffney.
5 (No response.)
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
The next two parties, Susan 7
McMahon and Harriet Smith, have made known that they would 8
not be able to attend this afternoon's session, although they 9
had signed up this morning.
10 Rose Cianchetti.
11 SPECTATOR:
She will be along shortly.
12 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Sandra Gomes, Holbrook.
(h) 13 (No response.)
14 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mark Lembo, Wading River.
15 (No response.)
16 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Kim Johnson.
17' (No response.)
'18 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Marie Carpenter.
19 (No response.)
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Susan Henik.
21 (No response.)
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Vincent DeLuca.
Yes.
(({}
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Would you please step up?
Aeppecoral Reporters, Inc.
25
16,316
- 6-4-SueW j LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT f -
2 OF 3
VINCENT J.
DE LUCA 4
Gentlemen, as a private citizen of 5
Suffolk County I wrote a 24-page typewritten report, dated 6
January 24th entitled '.'The Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant Fiasco."
7 I addressed it to the NRC Commissioners and sent 8
copies to all five of the Commissioners then sitting, Presi-9 10 dent Reagan, Governor Cuomo, the two senators, seven congres-11 smen, three assemblymen, the Secretary of Energy, John 12 l Herrington, and FEMA Directors Becton and Speck.
13 I have a copy with me today, which I would leave 34 with you and when you have time.I would appreciate if you 15 would include it in the testimony.
16 I don't know if I can go through all this in the 17 time, but --
18 JUDGE MARGULIES:
There is no point in reading it 19 to us.
We will bind it into the record.
No, no.
This is something -- what I 21 have been talking about is the report I sent to the five 22 Commissioners with copies to all of those government officials.
23 I have that in one envelope, your copy for you to' keep.
You 24 can read it whenever you have time.
$7ecerse Reporters, Inc.
25 In addition, my oral presentation, I typed it all
16,317
- 6-5-SueW i
out, double-spaced, so I could follow it.
But, I don't know 2
whether I should read it, or should I paraphrase it and leave 3
this for the written record?
Maybe I should do that.
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Why don't you paraphrase it?
Then, could I still leave it for the 6
written record?
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will bind it into the record.
I tell you why, because it's thoroughly 9
written.
I intended it just to go by when I talk, but it 10 turned out to be so thoroughly put together that I think it 11 is better as written testimony.
But, I would just like to 12 touch on some of the points, okay?
1 f
(/
13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will bind it into the record.
So, I leave both of those in separate 15 lj envelopes typed on the cover what each is.
How about that?
l 16 l Okay.
l 17 l The first point -- I will just paraphrase and then 18,
in detail it's going to be written.
As I see it, there are 1
1 19 !
three separate matters under consideration in this whole l
20 Shoreham thing.
One is LILCO's evacuation plan.
Number two, 21 LILCO's exercise of February 13th, '86; and, number three, the 22 State and County participation in evacuation planning which 23 has been refused by both the State and County.
- -Federal Reporters. Inc.
24 However, either way, whether they participate or not,
25 /
that's the third question.
Now, the point I want to-make here
16,318
- 6-6-SueW 1 is that the entire scenario is absurd, because the irrefutable W
2 fact is that Suffolk County cannot be evacuated.
And this 3
renders those three matters irrelevant, because LILCO could 4
have the best evacuation plan on earth -- the exercise they 5
conducted could have been the best exercise ever conducted and 6
even if the State and the County participate in evacuation 7
- planning, when the emergency comes it's all futile because 8
it's impossible to evacuate Long Island.
9 On that basis, I say the plant:should;.be closed, 10 because it's impossible to evacuate.
And, all the planning 11 on earth isn't going to change that.
In other words, it's all 12 going to fail in an emergency.
People will do what they can,
)
(_,!
13 but it's going to be futile.
That's point number one.
14 Oh, and also, the realism argument is likewise 15 refuted.
And, about that realism argument, I think that's 16 arrogance at its worst, because what is being done there is thef 17 !
are telling Suffolk County and New York State, after you do a
}
18 study, a $600,000 study, which concluded it is impossible to 19 evacuate, we are now going to force the plant to open and then 20 you will be forced to do your duty when this emergency happens.
21 Even that would be futile, because it's impossible 22 to evacuate this narrow, over-developed Island, which is one 23 massive -- has become one massive end-to-end, side-by-side 24 parking lot, l._... 'ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 And as far as duty in an emergency, there is only
16,319
- 6-7-SueW 1 one duty to still be performed, for the 1:RC to deny the W
2 license because evacuation of Suffolk County is impossible.
3 And all the planning on earth is futile and meaningless.
4 In fact, I have included copies of four attach-5 ments.
This is one.
A top Presidential aide, who declined 6
to be identified, said that Long Island could not be evacuated, 7
"You try to get off Long Island any time, whether there's a 8
disaster or not."
And, that's attached.
9 And, also Donald Regan, who has previously lived 10 on the Island, said:
"You can't get off Long Island on a l
11 l Sunday afternoon."
l 12 Now, if the Reagan Administration admits, and
(,l' 13 agrees with us, that you can't evacuate Long Island, why are 14 q they still trying to force the plant to open?
It can only 15 l mean they don't care about the safety of the people.
16 And I attached an entire article from "Newsday" i
several pages back, which states that 62 percent of the 2.6 17 18 million residents of Nassau and Suffolk would flee their 19 homes, even if LILCO officials would tell them they are safe.
20 Now, that's that shadow effect thing.
21 And, I think it's clear when you consider the 22 ;
Chernobyl accident caused severe radiation effects -- I 23 think it's about a thousand miles to Western Europe, I'm not i
8oderal Reporters, Inc.
24 sure of the exact mileage, but if it could do that close to a 25 thousand miles away, then I think it's clear that this ten-mile
16,320
- 6-8-SueW 1
radius doesn't mean anything either.
2 There would be a mass exodus from Long Island 3
during an accident.
Now, what gives LILCO or the NRC the 4
right to.tell us
-- oh, they plan to use roadblocks in an 5
emergency so that eastern Long Islanders cannot flee.
I 6
think that is arrogance at its worst, because when one 1
7 considers the prevailing winds from west to east, they would 8
be trapped on eastern Long Island.
And, who has the righ't 9
to tell those people they can't flee if their judgment tells 10 them they should?
11 My next point is regarding the Constitution, the 12 constitutional issues involved.
Two principle laws, the 10th em I
)
13 '
amendment which I've quoted, and the U.S. Atomic Energy Act 14 l of 1954.
15 The 10th amendment says, "The powers not delegated i
16 to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it i
17 !
to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or r
18 to the people."
And that we know.
19 Now, the Atomic Energy Act, I've quoted the 20 relevant portions about who has authority in the safety area 21 of nuclear power.
22 Now, due to a conflict surrounding the drill, U.
S.
23 Attorney General Richard K. Willard of the U.S. Justice --
4oderal Reporters, Inc.
spelled it Jestice, making a joke out of Justice -- Department, 24 I
I 25 and the U.S. District Court Judge Leonard Wexler, while they
16,321
- 6-9-SueW I were only referring to the drill and not to the legality of W
2 the implementation of the plan, they apparently were trying 3
to trick or fool us when they stated that the Atomic Energy 4
Act gives authority to the federal government in the area 5
of safety.
And, they are wrong, because the Atomic Energy 6
Act, which I've quoted here, says that the federal government 7
has authority -- has regulatory power in the utilization and f,
production of nuclear energy and of the facilities used in 9
connection therewith.
It doesn't say anything about who 10 has authority of evacuating the surrounding area.
11 Now, I went to the library in Patchogue and spent i
12 the entire previous last week, the whole week there, and I
(~ '
(,/
13 l looked -- I read almost 200 pages of the U.S. Code, Volume 42, h
'14 f The Public Health and Welfare, Sections 2011 to 2296, which 15 is everything under the Atomic Energy Act relative to the 16 public safety and welfare.
I read exactly 187 pages.
17 And, nowhere did I find anything which says any-18 thing at all about who has authority in evacuation of the 19 !
surrounding area.
What I did find are numerous references l
20 ;
to -- it said the Atomic Energy Commission, which I guess i
21 now is the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
It used to be 22 called the Atomic Energy Commission.
23 l It had numerous references to them cooperating 24 l with the States in the area of public safety and welfare.
.oer.: neportm. inc.
i 25 Well, then if that's the case, I would like to ask you:
- Why, I
l 16.3??
,#6-10-SueWj then does not the NRC accept the findings of the local 2
government's study that it's impossible to evacuate and 3
declare it abandoned?
Why insist on trying to force it open?
4 Can you give me an-answer to that?
I don't know if I'm allow-5 ed to ask you.
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Well, we look upon your question 7
as a rhetorical question.
We are not here to respond.
Oh, fine.
See, I was wondering 9
whether that could be in the format or not.
In other words, 10 I can't pose a question to you for an immediate answer, then?
11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
That is correct.
I just give you my point of views and
,m (a
13 you consider it?
14 JUDGE MARGULIES:
That is correct, Mr. De Luca.
Okay.
My next point, Senator --
16 oh, I mentioned about not finding anything in the Atomic 17 l Energy Act stating who has authority in the area of evacua-18 tion of the surrounding area in an accident.
I'm talking 19 about the Atomic Energy Act.
20 And, in the absence of it, therefore, since.it's 21 not delegated to the federal government -- I'm only talking 22 about evacuation, not the safety of the plant itself.
The 23 Atomic Energy Act says they have authority for safety in the 24 facilities, erst Reporters, Inc.
25 But, in the absence of anything about the evacuation I
16,323
,#6-ll-SueW l of the surrounding area, that authority is left to local and 2
state government.
3 Now, Senator Moynihan -- in my written testimony 4
today, I'm going to leave an article in which gives Senator 5
Moynihan's huge account of all kinds of federal laws in 6
addition to the Atomic Energy Act -- no, a lot of laws having 7
to do with emergencies like.the Civil Defense Act, all those 8
defense -- he must give about 30 different federal laws 9
throughout, and he says nothing says anything to wipe out --
10 what is the word, for the federal government to take over 11 local and state authority for safety and evacuation.
12 And, also Judge Frankel and Monroe Freedman, two 13 constitutional experts, also agree with Moynihan that health, 14 safety and welfare of the people is ordinarily n the control of i
15 local government, adding -- Judge Freedman added that "To 16 override that, you need a more specific federal law than one 17 which says atomic energy is in the national interest."
18 Furthermore, the last phrase of the Atomic Energy 19 Act, "To protect the health and safety ot the public," even 20 if the federal government had jurisdiction over evacuation 21 they would have to close the plant ~to obey that last phrase, 22 "To protect the health and safety of the public," for the 23 simple reason it's impossible to evacuate a narrow island like f
24 l Long Island with its traffic problems.
oders' Reporters, Inc. l 25 '
I am attaching an article by Bob Wiemer of l
16,324
,#6-12-SueW j of "Newsday" entitled "New!
From LILCO Games!
It's The 2
Great Escape."
And, the last sentence -- I just want to read 3
the last sentence of that, he says -- he compares it to a 4
game board, you know, like Chess or whatever.
The last 5
sentence, "Since LILCO's response to the hazard of radiation 6
is a charade, perhaps the game could be called 'Charadiation, 7
the Evacuation Game.'"
8 And, Senator Markey -- I mean, Congressman Markey, 9
when he wrote to FEMA Director Becton regarding the exercise 10 of February 13th says, " FEMA falsely asserts that what pre-11 vents LILCO from obtaining a license is a FEMA conducted 12 exercise.
This is factually incorrect.
LILCO has been found l
(,x) 13 to lack the legal authority to implement its emergency plan by 14 the New York State Supreme Court and Shoreham has been 15.l denied an operating license on this basis by both the NRC's 16,
Atomic Safety and Licensing Board and the Atomic Safety and 17 ll Licensing Appeal Board.
LILCO's lack of legal authority and l
18 not the holding of a test is the limiting factor."
19 In other words, after the drill is finished, no 20 1 matter how successful the drill, they still lack the legal 21 authority to implement the plan.
So, why was the drill even 22 held?
23l And, finally a personal comment of mine.
This on-h
[_',
24 h going, relentless attempt by the federal government and this Im, oderal Resorters, Inc. I 25 Agency to force that unsafe, ill-conceived, ill-sited,
16,325
- 6-13-SueW 1 ill-constructed, ill-managed plant on us, over the legitimate W
2 and sound objections of state and local governments, who know 3
that evacuation is impossible, and over the objections of the 4
people, indeed constitutes governmental tyranny, a clear 5
threat to our human rights and freedoms.
We had one 6
American Revolution against governmental tyranny, and we 7
could have another.
8 (Applause.)
And, I would be the first to enlist 10 in and help recruit the " Minutemen."
Our battle cry, 11 after changing just one letter, an R to an F, would be the 12 same as that of the original " Minutemen," namely, "The i,)
13 Fedcoats are Coming."
14 In conclusion -- one more sentence.
In conclusion, i
15 l I urge you, this Board, to take the same action as the i
16 l previous NRC Licensing Board and Appeals Board, namely to 17i
~
deny Shoreham an operating license because they lack legal 18 !
authority.to implement their evacuation plan, inasmuch as 19:
police powers and emergency planning belong in the hands of l
l 20l local government and, in the wake of Three Mile Island, NRC
~
l 21 regulations also call for local government's participation in 22 emergency planning, but most of all because everyone -- includ-23 ing the federal government and its agencies -- knows that
,8oderal Reporters, Inc. j24 !
evacuation of Suffolk County is impossible.
25 '
This is the bottom line.
And, in doing this -- if
i 16,326
,#6-14-SueW 1
you do deny it like the previous Licensing Board and Appeal 2
Board denied the license because of the illegality of the 3
plan, if you do this again -- if you deny the license again, 4
you will be taking a giant step.
Now, this is what bothers 5
me more than even the nuclear danger, if you do this you 6
will be taking a giant step in reversing our federal govern-l 7;
ment from its trend, from its current cost, toward a government 8
of money, for money and by money, and restoring its course 9
once again toward a government of the people, for the people 10 l and by the people.
I 11 And, at the same time you would be avoiding not l
12 '
only a potential nuclear disaster at Shoreham, but also a
(.,)
13 second American Revolution against federal governmental tyranny-Thank you.
14 15 (Applause.)
I want to leave this.
Today's "New i
l' ~
York Times" had this article, a new study about the fallout at 7
18 Chernobyl, that it surpasses all of the fallout from -- the 19 total of all the nuclear tests and bombs altogether previously.
20 I don't know if you read that.
Did you?
But, what 21 I did was, I just cut out the relevant part, this part, and from 22 the other page I cut off the relevant part and stapled it on 23 the top.
That's from today's " Times."
(;
24 l JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mr. DeLuca, if you will give a
,j ederal Reporte's. Inc. I 25 copy of each statement to the Reporter it will be bound into
16,327
,#6-15-SucW j the record.
Okay.
And the article?
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Does the article create any 4
problem?
No, no.
This is just for you.
You might want to read this.
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
It dan go in the record with the 7
statement for the Reporter.
She will put it in the transcript 8
just as if it were read into the record.
All typewritten?
10 11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Yes, but it will just be bound 12 l into the transcript as if you had read it.
()
You mean, tape recorded or --
v 14 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Just leave it there, and it will 15 l be placed into the record.
Leave it, please.
Thank you.
j7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Jim Leotta.
4 18 1.
I 19 i 20 21 22 23
('D 24 l
[
ederst Reporters, Inc.
l 25 l
16,328
- 6-16-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
JIM LEOTTA 4
MR. LEOTTA:
Good' afternoon.
My name is Jim 5
Leotta.
I live at 24 Lake Street in Setauket.
And I want to 6
welcome you to Long Island.
I'm sure in the next few days you 7
are going to meet quite a few colorful characters that may be 8
w ndering up here.
9 And, you are going to discover that Long Island 10 has an incredibly responsible community and quite a few group 11 citizens that live here.
12 I urge you, while you are here on Long Island, to 13 [
take a drive at 5 o' clock right out on 347 here, on the 14 !l Expressway.
I think that would be education; that would be 15 worth a thousand words, if not more, and you would get an idea 16 of traffic is like here on Long Island.
0 17 I don't expect you to work miracles, and I don't 18 even know what exactly the purp'ose of these hearings are to 19 some extent, except to allow us to vent some of these frustra-20 tions and feelings that we have about the process that has been 21 going on.
22 i There has been an amazing attrition rate among your 23 own Agency, the people that have disagreed with high level f
(")
24 !
personnel within your own Agency.
And I don't expect you to
/.o..i neportm, inc. !
e 25 !
come out and just basically state that Shoreham would be
16,329 licensed, or should not be licensed.
Even if you did, I'm
,#6-17-SueW j 2
sure the Commission would overrule your decision.
3 (Laughter and applause.)
4 MR. LEOTTA:
It seems to be, to some extent, in-5; competence here in our community.
And I think, if anything, 6
burying this issue would once again put our community to rest.
We have almost a seige between a utility and the 7
PeoP e who live here.
And, it would be a great day, I think, l
8 when this whole thing is over.
And, the sooner the better, I 9
i 10 i think~ for all of us, i
1 11 j The condition, which is basically attached to the I
12 {
Reagan Administration -- someone mentioned the federal 77
(/
13 government before, but I would like to label that federal I
14 l government as part of the Reagan regime to go out -- while l
15 l Reagan compaigns -- to get the government off people's back.
I 16 l I think that now we have an example of what exactly he meant.
17 ]
He meant, get government off corporations back.
And, we are 18 seeing basically a pattern to that in getting the government off of People's back here with the current licensing and the 19 l 20 decisions that have been made by the NRC.
A lot of people that come up here may sound like 21 22,
they are rambling when they are talking and you may say:
This 23 is not what we are used to.
We are much more used to having 24 some scientific witnesses come before us who have their ederal Reporters, Inc. ;
25 !
testimony well organized.
i 16,330
,#6-18-SueW1 But, reason -- when you think about it, reason and
/ ~T kI 2
logic.. I design computer software for a living.
I have my 3
own business right now.
And, I have a 12-year old son, too, 4
that I'm raising.
And I try to point out things of reason to 5
him, and I try to build up a sense of faith in government and 6
the system that we live under.
7 There are numerous decisions made by the NRC.that 8
defy reason.
One is the low level licensing decision which, 9
of. course, contaminates the plant while a decision is being 10 made whether to open the plant or not, which has defied my 11 sense of reason.
12 l A statement in "Newsday" today which kind of proves 13 that the NRC is part of the Reagan regime, because it sort of 14 shoots from the hip before it thinks:
"We find it unnecessary 15 in reaching our decision to delve into the psychology of human 16 response."
That is the quote from a member of the Nuclear 17 Regulatory Commission, whomever it may be.
18 What are we evacuating?
Cars?
Are you evacuating 19 computers, machines?- I mean, we are evacuating people.
Yet 20 we will not delve into the psychology of human response.
It's 21 tough to explain'that to myself.
22 Enough said.
Have a good day, gentlemen.
Enjoy 23 your stay here on Long Island.
f 24 (Applause.)
etal Reporters, Inc.
ENDDDD 25
l 16,331 t
7-1-gjw 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:.
Rocky Guarimo?
2
' AUDIENCE:
He just stepped out for a moment. - -He 3
will be right back.
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Carol Rudd?
5 LIMITED' APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
OF 7
CAROL RUDD 8
MS. RUDD:
My name is Carol Rudd, and I live in 9
Rocky Point with my husband and our three children.
I am here 10 today because of my deep concern for my children's safety.
11 I 'would like to begin by saying I consider LILCO's 12 evacuation plan an insult to my intelligence, as should.any 13 rational person with any common sense.
I 14 LILCO boasted that the ' February 13th paper drill 15 safely evacuated every Long Island resident in the ten mile 4
That is approximately a hundred and thirty-eight 16 EPZ.
17 thousand people, and all within twelve hours.
18 This included the safe evacuation of thirty-three 19 public schools, thirteen nursery schools, and two parochial
' 20 schocls.
LILCO reports that all of this was miraculously done l
~
'with total public cooperation, the full cooperation of LILCO 21 22 employees, with absolutely no panic, no injuries, and one 23 traffic accident.
24 I find the total absurdity of LILCO's conclusion Aso-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 and the NRC's willingness to go along with this wishful h
^
- - - ~.-.-.-.
7-2-gjw 16,332 1
thinking in tole rable.
2 Should there be a radiological emergency at Shoreham, 3
our children would be our utmost concern.
Could you just 4
picture the parents of thousands of students descending on the 5
schools all at once, knowing full well that time is of the 6
essence in escaping radioactive contamination.
7 Can you picture a hundred and thirty-eight thousand j 8
people all trying to get gas at one time on Long Island?
Can 9
you picture our already over-congested roads suddenly massed I
10 with many thousands of vehicles going west all at once trying i
11 to escape contamination?
12 I will be one of those thousands of parents at my 7"N j
13 children's school.
I know that the bus drivers aren' t going j l
14 to be there, and I don't blame them.
They are going to be i
15 with their families, or trying to find them.
l l
16 If it is after eleven a.m.,
I will most likely be 17 in a panic, as most of my children have already lef t the high 18 school by bus to go to the dif ferent vocational schools at 19 BOCES My daughter will be at Bell Point, and my son will 20 be~in Islip, at MacArthur Airport.
At least that is where I 21 hope they will be, unless LILCO has evacuated them to parts 22 unknown, or the bus driver had not come to get the m, due to l
23 a Shoreham emergency.
n 24 Hopefully, my youngest child will be with me and j
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 not with a babysitter, should I be at work during the Shoreham
16,333 3
7-$-gjw
?m, 1
emergency.
fU/
2 The busiest intersection in our area is 25-A and 3
Rocky Point Road.
The current every ' day traffic congestion 4
at this area is, at best, in tole rable.
I would like to add' 5
that this is the only accessible road to both Rocky Point 6
High School and the elementary school.
The only way we will 7
be able to evacuate our children during the massive traffic 8
congestion a radiological emergency would create',would be to 9
evacuate all of them by helicopter.
10 If a radiological emergency should occur, and I 13 am fortunate enough to unite my family, I am assuming my 'ar's c
12 tank is already filled with gas, which I run on a quarter of-13 a tank of gas, as most people do.
Assuming that I have this j
'~
14 gas and my family, I now have to travel west on either the 15 LIE or take the 25-A,. along with a hundred and twenty-five 16 thousand other people, 17 I am, like LILCO, assuming that the weather conditione 18 in such horrendous traffic will be perfect.
If it should snow 19 or rain heavily, or the roads dare to be icy, I would most 20 lik'ely not have gotten this far, as the populated hilly area 21 I live in can easily become trecherous in snow, heavy rain, 22 or icy conditions.
23' If this should be the case, I would probably still h
(/
s
(,,
be trying to get through the backroad traffic to my children's 24 Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 school.
l
7-4-gjw 16,334 i
1 I hear myself saying to you the words, ' radiological 2
emergency.'
And it occurs to me that the public is being 3
conditioned not only to prepare for, but to accept the 4
possibility of a nuclear accident not unlike Chernobyl, as 5
a probable fact, and it frightens me.
6 The simple fact remains that a hundred and thirty-7 eight thousand people cannot in the most remote sense of the !
I i
8 word be safely evacuated from the ten mile EPZ on this island 9
during a radiological emergency.
10 Frank Patrone, FEMA's regional director, issued II a staement to this effect following LILCO's evacuation drill.
I2 This statement caused Mr. Patrone's coerced resignation 13 because he refused to retract it.
This statement has been 14 officially stated to the NRC by Suffolk County school officialt 15 and personnel, the Suffolk County Legislature, by hospital 16 bus drivers, parents, Governor Coumo, many United States i
l 17 Senators, Congressmen, reventy-five percent of Long Island's 18 re siden ts, and the people who are here repeating it to you.
l 19 If the NRC decides to ignore rational, common sense 1 l
20 testimony from Long Island's officials and residends, and give's
~
21 Shoreham a full power operating license, you only can come 22 to the opinion that Long Island can be safely and efficiently l 23 evacuated, and I am of the opinion that the NRC licensing g
24 board will be giving LILCO a legal license to kill if there f
C/
Aw Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 should be a radiological emergency at Shoreham.
16,335 7-5-gjw
/^
The last thing I will say is there is none so blind l
-\\_
2 as those who will not see.
3 I will like to submit evidence to this board as to 4
why Shoreham should not be given full power license.
I sugmit 5
to you photographs of my three children, the people I love 6
most in this world, aside from my husband.
7 Photographs of traffic congestion on Route 25 and 8
Rocky Point Road.
Morning traffic reports from WALK from 9
September 18, 19, and 22.
These are random days I picked out, 10 and I would have typed them up, but it would have taken me II all night.
As it was, I was up until two thirty a.m.
12 I would also like to submit a photograph of the LIE f-,
/)
\\~/
13 between 64 and 66 that I took yesterday on my way home, in 14 non-rush hour traffic.
15 I would like to submit a newspaper article that 16 was printed in Suf folk Life newspaper of September 17th.
It 17 was written by a Mr. Brosky, head of the Board of Education 18 in the middle country school district, and it was entitled:
19 Common sense always prevails.
20 I think it is very pertinent.
Thank you.
21 (Applause.)
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Will you hand that to the 23 Reporter, please?
/'(_}/
i 2d MR. GUARIMO:
I had stepped out of the room when l
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 you called my name.
May I?
l i
l
16,336 7-6-gjw h) 1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
You may, s.)
2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
OF.
4 ROCKY GUARIMO 5
MR. GUARIMO:
Thank you.
To members of the NRC.
6 My name is Rocky Guarimo, my family and I live in St. James, 7
less than. twenty miles from the Shoreham Nuclear Plant.
8 For the past twenty years I have been driving a 9
truck delivering products to Long Island supermarkets.
No 10 one knows better than I to be caught in the traffic grid lock 11 on highways on Long Island.
12 A few months ago a truck carrying mayonnaise had f
1 L/
13 a minor accident on the Expressway, and traffic came to a 14 complete halt for five hours.
Why didn't LILCO write this 15 frequent occurrence into their scenario drill on February 16 the 13th?
You would then have a more realistic picture of 17 how impossible it would be to evacuate the people of Long 18 Island in the event of an emergency at Shoreham.
19 An accident similar to the one at Chernobyl will i
20 bri~ng death, disease and disaster to Long Island's population 21 a breakdown of our homes, businesses and communities.
22 The Soviets are building new houses thirty miles 23 from Chernobyl for the displaced people who live near Chernobyl<
A
(_)
24 Who would build houses for Long Island's refugees, assuming Ace-Federal Reporters. Inc.
25 we could escape in time?
Where would we live?
Where would l
16,337 7-7-gjw 1
we work?
The ' truth is Shoreham is a disaster waiting to 2
happen.
I have four children, two grandchildren, all living 3
on the Island.
We don't want the threat of Shoreham hanging-4 over our heads..Put a stop to LILCO's gains, and end the 5
Shoreham threat for all time.
6 Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Elsa Ford?
9 10 I,
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
()
24 Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I
16,338 7-8
/~
1 LINITED ' APPEARANCE STATEMENT
(./
2 OF 3
ELSA FORD 4
MS. FORD:
Welcome to Long Island.
I urge you to S
take this opportunity to tour our towns and villages and their 6
farms, forests, marinas and beaches.
Set aside some time to 7
leisurely savor the beautiful sights and sounds.
Linger 8
.to chat with people about their lives here.
9 Visit a school at dismissal time and catch the 10 children's exuberance.
Take some photos.
They will help you 11 draw on these experiences later.
For it is this life that 12 you will be writing off should you approve LILCO's emergency n
'us' 13 evacuation plan.
14 There aren't many people on Long Island who still ha.
15 illusions about the possibility of a nuclear accident; the 16 possibility of a safe evacuation; the inadequacy of LILCO's 17 emergency plan, and the kind of effects radioactive fallout j
18 would have on us.
19 I hope you will want to come back to Long Island 20 some day, for another purpose.
21 (Applause.)
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Victor Teich?
23 24 Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16,339
- 7-9-gjw 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF-3 VICTOR TEICH 4
MR. TEICH:
My name is Victor Teich, and I come from 5
-Sag Harbor.
I am a member of the East End Shoreham Opponents.
6 There are really two issues under consideration today.
7 One is the adequacy of the evacuation plan for the Shoreham 8
Nuclear Plant in the event of a disaster.
The other issue 9
is this: -Given the attitudIe of the Administration in 10 Washington, are these hearings for real, or are they window 11 dressing for a fait accompli.
The licensing of the Shoreham 12 nuclear plant, in spite of the concerns of the people of
~
D-
~d 13 Lo'ng Island.
14 I bring up the question of the Administration's
[
15
. attitude because-of a disquieting article in the Easthampton Star of Thursday, September lith of this year.
16 17 In that article, we learn that our Suffolk i
^
18 Legislator, Gregory Blass, rode in a limousine with our Vice 19 President, George Bush.
According to the article, Mr. Blass 20 arguied persuasively that Shoreham was poorly constructed, l
21 that the plant was not' economically viable, that the LILCO f
22 evacuation plan was not supported by county and state 23 officials.
In short, perhaps we can paraphrase Mr. Blass's
(.
24 position; the plant is no damned good, and it shouldn't be Ase-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 allowed to open.
16,340 7-10-gjw 1
According to the article, Mr. Blass's arguments f)
(_/
2 fell on deaf ears.
Vice President Bush responded as follows, 3
and I. quote:
The Administration support for Shoreham is
. ici.
+
4 based on its general support for nuclear power.
l 5
That is a position from which he, Mr. Bush, would 6
not budge.
He, Mr. Bush, further said, and I quote:- Nuclear 7
power is supported one hundred percent by the Administration.
8 And further, we are told, Mr. Blass argued with 9
Mr. Bush, and Mr. Bush became quite strong in putting forth 10 the Administration's position.
11 Now, the NRC is supposed to be an independent 12 agency, but we all know that if the Administration in 13 Washington, and that means President Reagan, wants that plant 14 to be licensed to operate, it will be licensed in spite of 15 the findings of this Committee, in spite of any considerations 16 of safety, health or the economic well being of the people 17 of Long Island.
18 In light of this, we are justified in asking:
Are 19 these elaborate hearings to register the will of the people 20 just so much window dressing.
21 Just to complicate this af fair further, back in 22 1984 our incumbent Congressman, Mr. Carney, received a letter 23 from President Reagan which said, and I quote:
The
()
24 Administration does not favor the imposition of Federal l
Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 Government authority over the objections of State and local i
i 7-ll-gjw 16,341
?-}
governments on matters regarding the adequacy of an emergency 1
v 2
evacuation plan for nuclear power plants such as Shoreham.
3 Was President Reagan's letter a statement of the 4
Administration's position?
Or was Vice President Bush speaking l
5 for the Administration.
Are these hearings for real?
6 Somebody in Washington had better straighten this 7
ening out.
8 As matters stand now, we have reason to question 9
the purpose of these hearings, and this is further confirmed 10 by the article already referred to, which appeared in Newsday 11 today which says a Federal appeals board overturning a finding-12 by a lower panel has ruled that LILCO's Shoreham Emergency 13 Plan is adequate.
14 In any case, I do not think it presumptuous to say 15 that the people of Long Island, even if Shoreham is licensed 16 to operate, will not tolerate the opening of this life-i 17 threatening Shoreham monstrosity.
One way or another, we 18 will keep it closed, except perhaps as a nuseum illustrating 19 stupidity and greed.
20 (Applause.)
21 JUDGE MA'RGULIES:
Has anyone previously signed up 22 and has not been heard?
We will start off with you.
What 23 is your name, sir.
()
24 MR. MORTOLA:
Paul Mortola, I was on the second i
Ace-Federsi Peporters, Inc.
25 list.
---..e,
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.7-12-gjw 16,342 s
1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Someone is going to get the list.
IU 2
What is your name7 3
MR. LIMBO:
Mark Limbo.
Page 5.
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Yes, will you please step up.
5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
OF 7
MARK LIMBO 8
MR. LIMBO:
Thank you for giving me this opportunity 9
to speak.
My name is Mark Limbo, and I live in Wading River, 10 which is about half a mile from the nuclear power plant at 11 Shoreham, and when you are talking about evacuation you are l
12 talking about me personally going.
(/
13 And I represent my wife and two children.
My parent I
14 are here, and I get pretty emotional about 'the situation.
15 And I would just like to reiterate the last gentleman's 16 references to these hearings, about us really just blowing off 17 steam and really knowing that the license is going to be given l
18 to Shoreham.
I think everyone in this room realizes that, and 19 a lot of us have.just lost faith in our government.
20 You gentlemen probably have your orders on what 21 to do about it, and there is really nothing you can do.
Mr.
22 Patrone has already resigned because his position was in 23 favor of the people, which was a truthful position.
Mr.
()
24 Bush stepped on Mr. Blass, and Mr. Blass has to go his way Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 because he is going to be a Congressman, and he has to take 6.
, -..., - - - ~.. -,.. - - - + - - - -
~,.
7-13-gjw-16,343
/m 1
Administration's money, or whatever, and is backing whatever h
2 is going to happen.
3 I would just like.to say how do I explain that 4
to my child,'especially Matthew.
He is six years old, and 5
every time we go by the plant, he always says:
Hey, dad,
~6 they are not going to open that plant, are they?
And I always 7
tell him:. No, not really.
l 8
In the back of my mind I am really being afraid.
9 Then there is the gentleman who lives next door who is a 10 Suffolk County policeman, who told me, he said:
Mark, even 11 if the state and county were behind the evacuation plan, if l
12 you think I am going to go out and direct traffic, you are l
13 out of your mind.
14 So, I think really it is just, as the gentleman 15 said, this is just a paper type of situation.
I think it is 16 going to get its license;whether it opens or not is really 17 up to us.
We will go to the Supreme Court.
It-is that 18 type of situation.
But I am here to say that I really don't 19 have much faith in the government or in you three gentlemen 20 sitting there.
I know you are not listening to me, but that 21 is okay.
22 I thank you for your time and effort.
23 (Applause.)
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else who signed Acefederal Reporters, Inc.
25 up to speak earlier in the day and hasn't spoken.
I am
7-14-gjw 16, 34 3_A
/s I
speaking particularly to those people who have signed up
(_)
2 in the morning.
Yes, ma'am.
Will you please step forward.
3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4
OF 5
ROSE CIANCHETTI a
6 MS. CIANCHETTI:
Good af ternoon, gentlemen.
My name 7
us Rise Cianchetti, and I reside in Wading River, one mile 8
from the Shoreham Nuclear Plant.
9 I have three adult children and seven grandchildren 10 who all reside within the shadow of the Shoreham plant.
You 11 have heard some very convincing testimony here this morning 12 from very knowledgeable and concerned people, 13 I would like to add my own personal experience that 14 happened only recently on how LILCO responds to an isolated l
15 emergency, let alone an emergency that involves the entire 16 island.
17 LILCO has lost all credibility to the people on Long 18 Island.
To be here today to entertain the notion that our 19 lives could be placed in the hands of LILCO, a Company who 20 says damn to the people arouses a nightmarish concern in me.
21 Let me tell you my recent experience on how LILCO 22 responded to an emergency situation.
On the morning of 23 Friday, August 8th 1986, just a few weeks ago, during an
()
24 electrical storm, lightening hit my home in Wading River, Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 causing serious damage almost erupting into a fire.
The
7-15-gjw 16,344 1
fire department and police department responded immediately 2
to the emergency.
Members of the fire department called my 3
. attention to a situation that they considered dangerous, and 4
instructed me to notify LILCO 'immediately to rectify the 5
problem.
The main electrical wires that connect to our home j
6 had' become entrapped in the trunk of the tree during years 7
of growth, 8
In past years I have notified LILCO about this I
I 9
problem, but they refused to correct it, insisting that it 10 wasn't their responsibility to do so since the tree was on 11 my property.
12 However, the fire department insisted that it was O
13
- LILCO's responsibility.to free the trapped wires in order to 14 insure the safety of my home in electrical storms.
Five 15 days later, only after persistent arguments with LILCO's 16 representative,. did they send someone to cut the line loose.
17 Lightening also struck the main power line at the 18 curb in front of my home on that day and burned off the 19 insulation, causing a belching of flames every time the wire 20 rubbed against the tree.
The loud static sounds and the 21
' black smoke emiting from this power line caused much concern 22 in the neighborhood.
23 Members of the police department and residents in th'e 24 area had to stand guard for hours to prot.e ct passersby agains adotal Reporters, Inc.
25 possible danger while waiting for LILCO to respond to repeated l
7-16-gjw 16,345 i
I calls.
2 Lightening hit at 9 : 30 a.m., and LILCO did not 1
3 respond to this emergency with flames on a main wire until 4
af ter four p.m.
l 5
Accounts of inefficiency such as I described j
6 routinely occur involving LILCO's response to servicing their 7
cus tome rs.
For you, the judges of the licensing board, to 8
indulge LILCO by considering their outlandish, deceptive plan, 9
under the guise of protecting Long Island's population makes 10 you as guilty as the perpetrator.
- 11 Anyone who has ever travelled on the LIE, Long 12 Island's main artery, knows that it is an impossible dream 4
13 to evacuate hundreds of thousands of people in the event of 14 a nuclear disaster at Shoreham.
A minor accident at any 15 given day will hold up traffic for hours.
To entertain such l
16 a hoax is absurd, but even more outlandish is to think the 17 unthinkable, that the safety of Long Island residents could 18 b) entrusted to undependable, unconcerning LILCO, whose only l
19 concern is to keep their bank balance lucrative at the expense l
20 of us all.
4 21 I urge you here today to carefully examine the 1
22 facts, for once you do, the irrefutable decision will be 23 to never allow Shoreham Nuclear Plant to operate in a location' S
24 that could prove to be even more catastrophic than Boupel andl Ace-Fmteral Reporters, Inc.
25 Chernobyl.
Thank you very much.
l
'-17-gjw 16,346 l
1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Al Washington?
2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
OF l
4 AL WASHINGTON 5
MR. WASHINGTON:
I am a resident of Bohemia, and 6
I am afraid what this fellow said is very true.
I have no 7
expertise,,and I really don't know anything about atomic 8
energy, but I have forty-three years of experience travelling 9
back and forth east and west on Long Island, and I have a fear 10 and I don't know how far this will go.
But I fear -- when 11 this country was set up, and constitution ventures are coming 12 up -- which was important enough that Chief Justice thought O
13 to drop being Chief Justice of the United States to help take 14 part in that.
15 And what this is about, theArticlesofConfederati$n 16 was a loose organization, and this goes to the guts of the 17 country.
It goes to the fact that they obviously don't trust 18 LILCO for a very simply reason.
The statements they have made 19 have no bearing on reality.
We have to live with this, and 20 what it boils down to is you cannot follow people that don't 21 speak real.
22 We live in a world, which unfortunately don't always 23 follow the rules.
We don't have cars that always have the 24 inspection they should.
In fact, with automobiles, the only Aces.oer. neoon..., inc.
25 thing you have got are numbers.
You don't have people who
r 7-18-gjw 16,347 g-1 are often good drivers, and sometimes they are drunk and 2
doped.
3 We have all that into the pot, on top of which 4
when all fails, and there is no trust, and I hate to say 5
this, but most of the people are viewed as either fools or i
~
6 people in the pay of somebody or other, and what ultimately 7
it comes to is you are going to have an M-16 in your back, and 8
you must move.
9 I don't like it, and I don't like it to be that 10 way, but that is the way it is, and I see no way out.
I doubt 11 that you have a way out, and I don't know what the answer 12 to this organization is going to be.
I would hope that 13 some way is found that we do not end up where people literally 14 have to be forced, and I see no other way.
But probably to 15 be honest, that is how it is.
16 Now, my own experience, at one time travelling not 17 from Suffolk County but from Center National to New York on 18 Thanksgiving Weekend in 1968, it took me four hours, and I 19 took a few shortcuts.
That was when part of the Long Island 20 Expressway was brand new.
The portion near the BQE.
The 21 Nassau Coliseum, ridiculous.
You couldn't even get there in 22 good time in a reasonable time.
23 It is absolutely' ludicrous, and I think what was
()
24 said be fore, I don't believe there is any real decision here.
Am Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I think at some point down the line there is going to have to
7-19-JoeWal 16,348 O~
l be a decision of ra :ionality that somebody can somehow live U
2 with, and I don't see that coming at this moment.
I.am 3
sorry.
4 (Applause.)
5 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Paul Mortola?
6 7
8 9
10 11 13 14 I,
i 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
.7-20-gjw 16,349 O
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT (O
2 OF 3
PAUL MORTOLA 4
MR. MORTOLA:
Mr. Chairman, my name is Paul Mortola.
5 I ' reside with my wife in Mt. Sinai, which.is located in the 6
ten mile zone around Shoreham plant.
7 I' disagree with Governor Coumo, the Suffolk County 8
officials and anti-nuclear activists when they say that the 9
evacuation of Long Island is impossible.
10 In the old days, we old timers had sayings like: Put 11 up or shut up.
And another one:
Put your money where your 12 mouth is.
-q V
13 The anti-Shoreham people make statements, but why 14 don't they prove it.
Why don't they prove them rather, by 15 having a test.
I am quite confident that the police 16 departments of Suffolk and Nassau counties, aided by LILCO 17 personnel are very capab le of conducting a safe and orderly 18 evacuation near the Shoreham plant.
19 The evacuation of the Shoreham area is no longer 20 a state or county question, but a national one.
For instance,
~
21 Connecticut has operating nuclear power plants located close 22 to Long Island shores, such as the 3 Millstone Nuclear 23 Plant Reactors, located five miles southwest of New London.
l 24 They are approximately ten to eleven miles to the Orient
_ m
.e. _....,_.
l 25 Point, Long Island.
1
7-21-gjw 16,350
(~)
1 The Connecticut Yankee Nuclear Plant, located in
.bl 2
Haddam, Connecticut, is approximately thirty miles to the 3
Long Island Shores.
In the event of an accident at either 4
one of these plants, Long Islanders would face a serious 5
evacuation problem, as there is no plan in effect today.
6 As to evacuation centers, an article in the Long 7
Island Newsday of June 3, 1986 titled:
Rating the Shelters, 8
reported that Suffolk County finished inspecting its four 9
hundred designated shelters and Nassau County Of ficials are 10 still inspecting the eighteen hundred shelters listed on 11 their books.
With all these shelters available, why do these 12 county officials refuse to make these shelters available for 7-U 13 Shoreham evacuees?
14 The Long Island Lighting Company, known as LILCO, 15 updated their evacuation plan to care for as many as one 16 hundred and thirty thousand evacuees, to three of their o
f 17 facilities including their corporate headquarters, for 18 radiation monitoring and decontamination in trailers equipped 19 with public showers, l
20 Recent newspaper article states there would be an 21 exodus off Long Island in case of a nuclear accident at 22 Shoreham.
This is hard to understand, and there is a building 23 boom on Long Island in the Shoreham evacuation area.
24 Thousands of people are moving into this area.
Even the town t
l A
F.o,<.: neporteri, inc.
25 of Brookhaven has opened some of its new of fices from
7-22-gjw 16,351
' (~N 1
Patchague in the south further north and closer to the 2
Shoreham plant.
3 Mr. Chairman, I don't own any stock in LILCO.
I am 4
not interested in any utilities.
The only: stock I have is 5
in the United States.
6 Mr. Chairman, I have sent a letter to the President 7
in Washington, D. C.
I would like to read one segment of it.
8 I sent the letter on September 16, 1986, and it goes on:
My I
9 wife and I reside in Mount Sinai, Long Island, located within 10 the 10 mile zone around the Shoreham plant and are in favor 11 of opening the plant.
I am one of one hundred thousand 12 citizens who have joined a committee called the Citizens to l
O 13 Open Shoreha.a.
We are a committee of concerned taxpayers 14 and ratepayers who have jointed together to end the costly, i
15 wasteful controversy over Shoreham.
I don' t have any 16 connection with LILCO or any other utility.
I don't own any 17 stock in LILCO.
The only stock I have is in the United 18 States.
19 Mr. President, please address the people of our 20 country so that they can learn the truth about. nuclear 21 energy and remove their unfounded fears.
This will go~ a long 22 way to insure the national security, welfare and economy of 23 our country.
.'.p
\\_/
24 Thank you.
hel Reporters, Inc.
j 25 l
16,352 8I" 0~1 1'
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Walter Knightlick.
(~3 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT V
3 OF 4
WALTER KNIGHTLICK 5
MR. KNIGHTLICK:
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
6 My'name is Watler Knightlick.
I reside in Huntington, 7
'New York, not far from here.
8 I am a chemical engineering graduate of Yale 9
University and I'have been a resident of Long Island for to a little over'30 years.
_11
- Firat, what I would like to say is that you PeoP e, you gentlemen are here because nuclear energy is l
12 13 inherently unsafe.
We are playing with the fire of gods ~
14 when we work with nuclear energy.
It seems to me that the issue of Shoreham 15 16 revolves around the question of do we need nuclear generated aj j7 electrical power at the sacrifice of the, lives of 2 million h.
PeoP e or do we need additional nuclear generated electric l
18 cj ig power at the cost of placing in hazard, in extreme hazard a
the lives of 2 million people.
20 a
5 Being a chemical engineer I am well familiar 21.
i e
with the high accident potential which is involved in the 22 chemcial industry and in the nuclear power industry.
We have 23 nly to mention Three Mile Island with which you are 24 familiar, the horrendous accident which occurred in Bauphal 25
16,353 uShn 8-2 1
India, the frequent accidents which occur in West Virginia r-2 with emitted chemicals, Chernobyl of course and last but (y)^
3 not least the Shuttle Challenger.
4 All of man's works are subject to accidents no 5
matter how safe we try to make them.
The Shoreham plant 6
is, in my view, a ship in a bottle. - That is what Long 7
Island is, it is a bottle.
And having lived on Long 8
Isalnd for 30 years and have seen the expressway built as g
a solution to Long Island's traffic problems and finding 10 out that shortly after the expressway was built it was obsolete.'
it 12 You gentlemen I don't think are too familiar 13 with Long Island having recently come, but like the other i
14 Speakers I appeal to you to travel on the expressway at 8:30 in the morning or at 5 o' clock in the afternoon and 15 you will see that the island is an impassable bottleneck 16
- j 37 at those times.
18 The Long Island Expressway, for your informa-l 4
tion, is the only traffic system, the only major traffic j
19 i
artery that I know of in the United States which has a E
20 a
f d
still not working traffic advisory system which is designed 21 r
to shunt people from its crowded lanes of f to other of ten 22 very crowded traffic highways.
23 In essence we are creating an accident potential 24 a high accident potential here possibly imperiling millions 25 y
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'16,354 Sim 8-3 1
of people's lives.
Long Island is a major metropolitan area
,e w 2
and I hear talk cf shelter, I hear talk of evacuation and h
3 there -is no evacuation possible here.
You have to move.
3 4
2 million people-out of a restricted area in a very short
-5 time and:you can count the number of egress routes from i
6 Long Island on the' fingers of both hands.
There are less 7
.than 10, 8
So I think that with the question of whether g
this additional electrical power can be supplied by other lo means, certainly safer means and maybe at a higher cost, 33 but I am sure if you polled the people on Long Island and 12 asked them, do you want to pay more for power in exchange 13 -
for your life, I think that you would get the answer no.
2 O 34 (Applause.)
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mel Wolf.
15 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 16 s
h OF 17 e
18 MEL WOLF c
j gg MR. WOLF:
My name is Mel Wolf.
I am a member a
l f the East End Shoreham Opponents, and I like the other 20 a
d Speakers welcome you to Long Island.
21 I
i r
If y u had been here a year earlier almost to 22 the day you would have be'n here during Hurricane Gloria.
e 23 Y u w uld have seen the response of LILCO during that 24 natural emergency.
You would have seen houses and entire 25 i
....~.m.
16355
.Sim 8-4 areas without electricity for weeks.
You would have seen a very distraught population.
f~h
(_)
But here we are a year later and there is no 3
7 poisonous fallout and everything is back to normal.
With a r:uclear emergency things would be quite dif ferent.
But I would also like to say that you don't 6
have to be against nuclear power to be against Shoreham.
You could be under other conditions for a nuclear plant, 8
but I think you have got to take into consideration the particulars with this plant, the prevailing winds, the narrowness of the island, the roads and the things that have 11 i-been said many times.
12 I would also like to point out that it is 13
()
often pointed out that the State and the county has refused to participate in an emergency plan.
J 15 More accurate it is to say that after much 16 study and the spending of hundreds of thousands of dollars g
17 both the State and the County have come to the conclusion 18 g.
that no plan is possible.
No reasonable sensible plan is y
19 possible.
That is why they have refused to put forth 20 3
g a plan.
It would be fake and phony and most of us on Long j
21 j
Island understand that.
They are not refusing to look at 22 it or try.
They have done that.
23 In a recent opinion by I assume one of your 24 l
l bosses, the Commissioner Asselstine, I would just like to 25 read a few paragraphs of his dissenting opinion,
<m
16,356 Sim 8-5 In a three to one vote his was the one vote against the LILCO evacuation plan and in part he said:
0
The Commission's decision today endorses the 3
idea that a nuclear plant may be allowed to operate without State anbd local government participation or in cooperation 5
with emergency planning.
The planning, if taken out of emergency planning and t.herefcce undermines the foundation upon which our emergency planning regulations are based.
The Commission's decision is riddled with assumptions which seem to me supported by nothing more than wishful thinking."
It couldn't have been stated better.
Wishful 11 think, if you proceed to approve a plan that is based on oh, everything will work out, that is wishful thinking.
I think that you are in a position to be like the one or two Mortonthiacal engineers who said wait a 15 minute, the "O" rings may not work, the weather is too 16 cold.
They were not against the space shuttle.
They were 17 against that shuttle at that time, and I think that any 18 g
U reasonable person will come to the same conclusion, wait
- l
'19
.j a minute, Shoreham is the wrong plant in the wrong spot, 20
.g f
and I hope that you will be brave enough to be like the 21 f:
kid who saw the emperor and said wait a minute, he has got
~
22 no clothes.
23 Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE MARGULIES:- Helen Westfeld.
16,357 Sim 8-6 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
OF r'
2 C/
HELEN WESTFEL MS. WESTFEL:
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
4 First of all, may I thank you for coming to Long 5
Island, and I hope that your stay here will prove beneficial to all of us.
7 I have some remarks that I have written down, 8
but before I start that I would like to ask the man who 9
belongs to the Citizens Group on Shoreham, as he said, put i
up or shut up.
If he can get the traffic flowing on Long Island, what is he waiting for.
Before I start, a few times during this past 13
()
year, several times, by the way, we have had several power outages.
They were only momentary, but very annoying 15 especially.if you have any electronic devices that need to 16 be reset and if yo have VCRs or computers you know just
[
17 I
what I am talking about.
It doesn't take long to botch 18 g
8 everying up.
j 19
{
During one of the outages this past year, and I 20 g
g refer to it here, but the next day they sent somebody to 21 i
my door and my air conditioner was on because my husband r
22 had a severe headache and it was very humid in the morning.
23 This gentleman rings my door bell several 24
(~}
times to get me out of bed to ask me if I had my electricity
\\_-
25 a
m.-.. _ -
16,358 and why he couldn't hear the air conditioner blasting Sim 8-7 1
(n) 2 right next to where he was standing and hear the door bell 3
ring, I don't know, neither of whihe would have happened 4
without electricity.
5 When I asked him if they had found any frayed 6
wires in the aera or anything like that, he says I don't know 7
anything about the wires, ma'am.
I work in the gas depart-8 ment and I deal with fires.
I said then why are you here?
l 9
He says because they don't have enough people to send around.
10 Well, that is what I am wondering, What are 11 they going to do?
Are they going to be directing traffic, 12 and now they are going to be decontaminating people at their 13 plants.
They don't even have enough people for a minor 14 emergency to send.around that knows what they are doing, and 15 yet they are going to have all of these people then?
Please think' rationally because they don't seem 16 s.
"3 17 to be.
Now if I may go on.
LILCO cannot and should 18 l_
g jg not be believed with their accounts that the State and a
l 5
County would do what LILCO says it will do in an emergency.
20
,3 1
3 They also claim that-the po21s shouldn't be believed because 21 3
ne knows what people will do in an emergency according E
n 22 to Ira Feillicker in Sunday Newsday 9/21/86.
23 It really shows how LILCO will say anything,to f
24 i
make their point even if it proves that they are double-25
,.._.. ~,_ _ _,
16,359 n : '. 8 - 8 1
talking manipulators.
(
2 With regrads to the State and County, they are b]
3 predicting what the State and County will do in an emergency, 4
and yet when the people say they will evacuate, LILCO is 5
telling ysu you can't predict what the people will do in 6
an emergency.
In that event, don't tell us and don't bet 7
on what the State and County will do.
They are the most 8
logical ones to know what will be done.
g According to LILCO you can't believe in or to trust anybody, but you can believe and trust in them.
That 11 is, unless you have lived with LILCO as we all have and wo don't trust them and don't believe you should either.
12 Children believe in the land of make-believe, but 13 14 then they grow up.
However, LILCO officials now only believe in the land of make-believe, but they seem to live 15 in it, and also the people in Washington who are judging 16 s
and I pray to God that they start looking for our lives, 37 at real life.
18 E
Mr. Catacacinnas tells the stockholders last j
19 July that LILCO has been unfairly accused of charging 20 d
skyrocking rates.
He said that LILCO gas prices are the 21 lowest of any of the utilities in Downstate New Yo'rk and 22 that electric consumers are paying the same price as they 23 Paid three years ago.
24 O
The fact is that we are paying skyrocketing l
'b 25 l
t
16,360 Sim 8-9 1
rates, Mr. Catacacinnas, if you are listening, and the fx 2
only reason we are paying less than we were three years b
3 ago has nothing to do with LILCO being run well or 4
efficiently.
The only credit for the recent low rates that 5
can be given is to OPEC, but they are trying to take credit 6
for it, and I hope you realize that if they can take 7
credit for that, listen to everyting else they say with 8
the same grain of salt.
9 Mr. Bill Sharard can't understand why customers 10 believe that electric rates are increasing, when in fact it the price of electricity has gone down hearly 15 percent 12 in the last seven months.
Mr. Sharard, I have a question 13 for~you, too.
If OPEC raises its rates to what they were, 14 are you going to accept the blame for the 15 percent increase as quickly as you'took' credit for the decrease, or i
15 16 will you in fact blame it n OPEC as it really is.
3 h
17 As far as the drill goes, LILCO was practicing e
2 18 three hours a day'several times a week from what I was told i
g ig by people who are related to people in that to do nothing a
l basically and for two unrehearsed vehicular accidents 20 a
d that occured in that mock drill, if memory. serves me 21 ir correctly, they botched that up by sending the wrong kind 22 f equipment, and that is for only two accidents, neither 23 of which got the right equipment sent, but that hadn't g
s, been rehearsed, and that is why they botched that up.
25
16,361.
Sim 8-10 1
What they did right'then was becuase of the 2
rehearsals three hours a day.
They gave a good performance, jrs y
but I guarantee that every musician or performer knows wnat yr 3
4 I.mean.
When you practice faithfully you'can perform well.
5 But when you give up practicing every day, the results can be very unpredictsable and, worse yet, undesirable.
6 LILCO will not be practicing every day as they 4
7 wer then, and God forbid if there was an accident today, I 8
g don't think they could have done anything right.
We consider the evacuation drill was supposedly 4
10 held to be nothing more than a well rehearsed performance.
33 Nobody moved, but as'I said, just go out and look at what 12 happens every day.
That is not a rehearsal.
That is 13 actuality, and judge by what you see and not by what you 14 hope it will be because it is getting worse'.and not better.
15 The long lines of stand-still traffic coming 16 to on Sunday nights and going out.on. Fridays and almost any j
37 2
ther time of day, and in fact just take a 10-minute trip i
18 i-to North Port.
We took one this summer to see the Tall-Ships j
39 a
~l I don't know if you are familiar with that.
It is in the 20 z
l Town of Huntington and basically northwesc of here.- It took 21 i
us an hour and a half to go a 10-minute trip and we took the 22 side streets and we were lucky, we didn't heat any dead l
23 i
ends as I did Saturday coming from the east end when it took g
()
me 45 minutes to take a five-mile trip through Patchhogue 25 W
Sim 8-11 16,362 1
on the only artery that goes east and west.
Every time I 1
fw
-2 would get off trying to escape it I would hit dead-end
(_
3 streets and that is just what would happen to people if 4
they were trying to evacuate and there would be chaos.
5 There is no way you can get off of Long Island, 6
and people who live here don't go out on the east end on 7
a Sunday because they know they can't get out Sunday 8
night, and the'same way with going the ther way.
g And last but not least, this is not Russia 10 where the people don't have a say in how their life is 33 run.
Here in Suffolk County we are fortunate to have
- 12 government for the people, of the people and by the people.
13 They.are the voice of the people who elected them, and we "N
(O 14 believe that when they speak to you on our behalf that you should listen to them, and we pray that you will, 15 I have brought some pictures of frayed lines 16 in my area.
They are frayed because nobody is watching 37 18 them closely.
If they were being watched like they were j
19 at Shoreham, maybe they would be fixed, but they are getting a
away with it.
20 5
Once you people make a decision on Shoreham, they 21 a:r are going to get away with everything there that they'could, too.
,3 Since last spring when I was getting outages g
every day for a while and I have been complaining to
)
25
' ~,
-m e
~
16,363
-Sim 8-12 1 various departments in LILCO and-the same conditions as 2
you see here in these pictures still exist today.
I.see s
'O 3
what LILCO isn't doing to resolve my problem, and based 4
on there knowns, I don't trust them with the unknown.
5 And last but not least, with valve and 6'
instrument problems and radiochemistry manipulating where 7
the managers were signing things without even making L
8 sure it was done and with you watching every move can you g
really trust them to do things right?
They can't even do 10 it right when you are looking over their shoulders.
11 I am not an engineer, but every picture of 12 Shoreham that I have seen shows a concrete container 13 building that does not look like the others.
It has.
34 many different shades similar to the backdrop behind you.
From what I understand, the concrete is supposed to be 15 of a uniform color if it is standard grade, and this is 16
{
37 a very serious structure.
This is the containment 2
18 structure, and I pray that if you haven't noticed it, look s
=
at the pictures they show of LILCO.
It isn't one color, j
19 it is several.
Something is wrong, and many people who have g
d w rked there have complained about things that were not 21 3
E being done right.
People haven't' listened to them, but 22 they have nothing to gain by telling you what they saw.
23 The only people-who have anything to gain by denying it 24 (n-)
r saying another side of the story is LILCO, and that 25
=
16,364 Sim 8-13 1
.is just what they are doing.
e~
2 But, please, listen to the people that have V
3 put their lives and their economics on the line to tell 4
the truth because they are the ones who know where it is 5
and they are the ones that I pray that you will listen to, 6
and the people who have worked there and know of the faulty 7
construction.
8-Please say no to LILCO.
We are indeed afraid 9
of what can be, if for no other reason than possible 10 human error as at Chernobyl, and for all the reasons I ij have given you, please, please say no to LILCO and urge 12 the people in Washington to do the same.
Thank you for
~
13 your time.
14 (Applause.)-
15 (Pictures are displayed.)
16 This isn't much, but it is just to show an j'
j7 example o'f some of the lines that for a long1 time they have e
1 18 been saying that they would correct and haven't done,.and i
j 19 each time they say we'll send somebody out this week.
a l
These are lines are obvious, and I have been told that 20 3
d the1 bottom two lines have to b'e insulated.
21 l
l r
If I keep getting power outages with my bills, 22 and I have given you examples of my bills and some of the
- 23 n tes I took when I got the outages.
I hope that maybe 24
()
y u will just look and see what the people really are 25
16,365 Sim 8-14 1
going through and not what LILCO says.
f-2 Thank you very much.
b 3
(Applause.)
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Bernard Smith.
5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
OF 7
BERNARD SMITH 8
MR. SMITH:
My name is Bernard Smith, and I 9
live in Setauket.
By training I am a mechancial engineer 10 and I currently deal with various power companies in the it capacity of selling them components and certain other P eces of equipment.
i 12 13 I don't have a prepared text of any kind.
I
[~
14 just came here to tell you how I feel about LILCO.
I have lived on Long Island about-12 years, 15 16' and I travel here because I am a sales engineer.
That is 3
17 my job.
So I am out there every day fighting traffic and 18 fighting the problems that exist out here.
I am also a LILCO stockholder, and personally j
19 e
I am not particularly against nuclear power.
I just know 20 l
d for a fact that LILCO cannot be trus'ted to maintain and 21 k
i perate the plant effectively.
22 i
I also feel from experience with LILCO and 23 I
ver the years that should there be releases of radiation 24 that we cannot really trust LILCO to let us know about 25
I I
16,366 Sim 8-15 1
these unless they are of a tremendous magnitude, at which 2
point it will be too late.
f-
'.g 3
As I say, I do travel Long Island.
So I know 4
for a fact that it is impossible to get people off of this 5
island quickly.
It just cannot be done.
6 I feel very, very strongly that should the 7
plant be licensed we are simply awaiting an accident, and 8
I hope that your Board is aware of the fact that your 9
function is to protect the people and not to protect the
~
10 utilities and the nuclear industry.
The people are the 13 ones that you should be working for and protecting, and 12 if you are indeed protecting the people of this area, 13 you will not license that plant.
14 (Applause.)
JUDGE MARGULIES:
I have a listing for-15 R.
Guarino.
Is this a duplication?
16 3
MR. GUARINO:
Yes, it is.
17 18 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Donald Schneider.
3 j
.19 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT.
i OF 20 d
DR. MONROE SCHNEIDER 21 I
DR. SCHNEIDER:
I am actually Dr. M6nroe 22 Schneider, and I have a home in Wading River at Creek Road 23 as well as in Brooklyn.
24 I am practicing physician and I am a 25 er
16,367 Sim8-16 1 professor or orthopedic surgery at the Downstate Medical 2
Center, State University of New York.
3 I have a personal interest in these hearings 4
because for more than 30 years my family has spent its 5
summers in Wading River.
We have a home on Creek Road 400 6
yards from the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant site boundary.
7 Four generations of my family have come to 8
regard Wading River as the ideal area for enjoying a unique 9
combination of waterfront, woodland and farm country, and 10 at the rate that new homes are being built in this area it 11 is evident that our view is shared by thousands of other l
12 PeOP e-13 This Licensing Board has been convened to i
34 consider once again whether the LILCO evacuation plan for
/
the 10-mile zone around Shoreham is workable despite the' 15 near unanimous conclusion of the Suffolk County Legislature 16 k
that the road network and geographic configuration of Eastern 17 e
Suffolk would make it impossible to remove the population 18 i
within a reasonable period as required by NRC regulations.
j ig
~
Although this Licensing Board ruled that planning 20 without the officials of the country as unacceptable and 21 i
n NRC Appeals Board sustained this decision, the NRC 22 decided that LILCO's contention that it could conduct this 23 evacuation plan must be reviewed in depth.
24 This decision by the NRC is quite consistent j
25 4
16,368 with the role of the this Commission in the past.
Sim 8-17 1
Although the nominal mission of the NRC is 2
0 to regulate the nuclear power industry, in effect it has 3
made its major objective the promotion of nuclear power 4
by bending the rules frequently.
5 This is well documented and included in publications of the Union of Concerned Scientists who quote from the report of the Kemeny Commission.. The' Kemeny Commission, as you know, in 1979 was appointed g
by the government to investigate the Three Mile Island accident and it concluded, and I quote from the Commission report.
"To prevent accidents as serious as Three
-s
)
Mile Island, fundamental changes will be necessary in the organization, procedures and practices, and above all' 15 in the attitudes of the NRC, and to the extent that the 16 E
institutions that we investigated are typical of the 2
17 nuclear industry."
18 i
There is nothing that has happened since j
19 p
then that has convinced me that the NRC has really changed j
20 a
its particular attitude, and the history of the hearings y
21 j
on Shoreham provide substantial evidence for the truth 22 of this.
23 Before LILCO even got its construction 24
'~.
license for Shoreham it invested hundreds of millions of
\\ ;'
25
16,368 Si 8-18 1
dollars in the construction although it was against
(~1 2
regulations to do so, and they called this site preparation.
ij 3
As a neighbor of this plant and the plant site 4
we were watching this really quite mystified by what they 5
were supposed to be doing.
6 The Licensing Board that approved the construction 7
license was found by a Federal Court of Appeals several years 8
later to have been in error because the Board had failed 9
to consider several pertinent issues.
10 However, the court in its wisdom decided to ti permit the construction to proceed on the basis that the 12 outstanding issues could be considered at the time that 13 the Licensing Board conducts its operational licensing
\\'l hearing for Shoreham.
g So several billion dollars more were spent 15 in the vain hope that somehow these important outstanding 16 safety considerations would go away.
Instead, as we all k
17 e
know, Three Mile Island the Chernobyl disaster happened 18
?
and the safety issues have multiplied.
j 19 Proceedings conducted in this matter defy logic.
20 d
The errors are compounded as they are built into a more and 21 i
l 2
more costly investment in a lant that going by the rules should not be permitted to operate.
23 The NRC record, however, points to the g
O) inevitable approval by the NRC of an operational license i,
25
16-369 Sim 8-19 1
for LILCO regardless of what this Licensing Board concludes.
(~
2 Why then should we on Long Island take the b
3 trouble to participate in these hea' rings?
For one thing 4
it is a reflex that when someone has you by the throat to 5
fight back and not question its possible outcome.
6 We think that you should know that there are 7
political forces stemming from the overwhelming opposition 8
of the people of Long Island ~to the Shoreham plant of which 9
you have heard much today, and this must eventually over-to ride the action of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
11 Should the NRC rule that the area around 12 Shoreham can be evacuated in a timely manner despite all 13 the evidence that it is not feasible with or without O
14 government participation, we will find the means through the 15 courts, through the legislative bodies of the Cou'nty, the 16 State and the Congress to ensure that good sense prevails.
- j 17 Shoreham must be sealed off forever.
Shoreham e
l 18 will be sealed off forever.
j 19 Thank you for your attention.
a h
(Applause.)
20 3
i JUDGE MARGULIES:
We are going to take a 10-21 minute recess.
22 (Recess taken.)
23 cnd Sim 24 90 fols
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25 l
16,370 9-1-SueW i
(3:10 p.m.)
2 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Back on the record.
Alan Arak.
3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4
OF 5
ALAN ARAK 6.
MR. ARAK:
I have two brief statements, one that I 7
prepared before I arrived and one that I prepared while sitting 8
waiting to speak.
I will read them to you as I wrote them.
9 My name is Alan Arak, and I live in Smithtown, which 10 is outside the 10-mile evacuation radius.
I don't claim to 11 speak for anyone else, but common sense dictates that my i
I 12 sentiments will be shared by many.
c',
I
(_,)
13 If I become aware of any kind of trouble at the 14 i nuclear plant, I would immediately attempt to leave the 15 f Island.
Based on my lack of trust of the management of LILCO, i
16 l I would assume any announcement of malfunction, danger or l
17 radiation release would have been delayed by the management i
18 and grossly understated.
19.
I also feel that any radiation release, however 20,
slight, could bring unnecessary and irreparable harm to a l
21 great amount of people.
An arbitrary 10 or 20-mile evacuation 22 radius is ludicrous.
If radiation from Chernobyl can reach 23 Norway, then a small amount of radiation from Shoreham can
/
)
24 ll certainly reach Smithtown, Nassau County and beyond.
es k Coderat Reporters, Inc.
25 It is my feeling that the evacuation plan would be
16,371-
- 9-2-SueW 1 ineffect'ive, because a 10 mile area'of evacuation will not be
.(}-
2 considered by virtually everyone with a concern of radiation 3
damage affecting themselves and their loved ones.
Any an-4 nouncement of danger, however glossed over by the management 5
of the Utility will be taken very seriously and will cause PeoP e all over this area to respond dramatically.
l 6
7 I'm sure LILCO'is aware of that; and, thus, my 8
concern for a delayed announcement or understatement of the 9
conditions.
I'm opposed to the full power licensing of the 10 Shoreham Nuclear Plant, and I urge the Commission to not accept 11,
the evacuation plan submitted by LILCO.
12 l That was the statement that I prepared before I 13 came.
I have one more brief statement.
This was inspired by 14 the gentleman who before quoted that the psychology of human 15 l response is not a concern of the Commission.
16 I can imagine how you gentlemen must feel being 17 confronted by unanimous opposition from the public..
If the 18 psychology of human response, as quoted by the gentleman be-19 fore, is not a consideration, the futility you must feel must 20 be profound.
21 All that is being brought before you are testimoni'es 22 of human response.
Many of the people appearing before you l
23 do not have access to facts, figures and statistics that l
j#')
24 full-time professionals working on this project have access L, oderW Reponen, Inc.
i 25 to.
l r
I l
16,372 c __ # 9-3-SueW 1 Will you please consider the amount of time, e
2 energy and hours these good people have devoted to the labor 3
of preparing the statements that they bring before you?
I 4
am sure you are not concerned how long it takes me to travel 5
from here to there on this Island in varyir:g road conditions.
6 However, the consensus of these people must be considered as 7
relevant.
8 If the decision to open Shoreham is not based on 9
willing consensus of the people of Long Island, it is not a 10 fair and just decision.
11 Thank you.
I 12 l (Applause.)
,/-
V 13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Dennis DiPrima.
14 i, ol i
15 l!!
i 16 l l
t 17 18 19 20 21 l
22 l l
23l i!
k..., e..,,,,. 24 f l
I 25
16,373
- 9-4-SueW j LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
DENNIS DI PRIMA MR. DI PRIMA:
Good afternoon.
My name is Dennis 4
DiPrima.
You have -- you have been presented with many good, 5
6 convincing arguments why Shoreham should not open.
As a 7
resident of Suffolk County, I would like to go on record as 8
saying that I do not want Shoreham to open.
9 In my opinion, and the opinion of 80 percent of the 10 residents of Long Island, the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant is 11 dangerous, unsafe and faulty.
And there is no hope of I
12 !
evacuating the people of Long Island.
13 It is unfortunate that the people in the area of 14 Chernobyl were not made aware of the seriousness of that 15 '
nuclear accident.
They realized the significance when their l
16 l neighbors and relatives were dying around them.
17 j As I sat in my office this morning, I realized 18 that my entire office and I would not be made aware of any 19 nuclear accident.
Radios are not permitted in our office, and 20 we are limited to outside influence.
21 if something did happen, where would we be?
We 1
22 i would be sitting there for eight hours while everything else i
f 23 is choas outside the building.
I don't know if my wife would 9edersi Reporters, Inc.
24 be aware.
She is working.
She is not allowed radios in her A
25 office.
16,374
- 9-5-SueW 1
And, it's something that is very difficult to be 2
made aware of.
How can you -- if there is an accident, how 3
is LILCO going to tell everyone there is a problem, get off 4
the Island?
There is no way.
The people on the eastern end 5
of the Island have to travel to Shoreham, past the area and 6
then off the Island.
So, they are actually walking right into 7
contamination.
8 I really don't have a lot of things prepared.
I 9
heard a lot of good arguments, better than mine.
But, I would 10 like to say that I hope you understand our position and you i
11 I do not license Shoreham.
12 Thank you, f\\
(_/
13 (Applause.)
14 !
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Diane Rickmers.
15 l l
16 !
17 '
i 18 19 20,
21 22 23 ;
- oderal Reporters, Inc. !
24 l A
25
16,375 J#9-6-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
('
2 OF 3
DIANE RICKMERS 4
MS. RICKMERS:
Good afternoon.
My name is Diane 5
Rickmers.
I reside in east Setauket.
And, I've lived on 6
Long Island for 33 years.
7 I have been thinking of what I could say to reach 8
you.
Throughout the day, people have tried to add the human 9'
element that was missing from LILCO's evacuation plan.
I am 10 a mother of three beautiful children, living within a 13-mile 11 radius of Shoreham.
My daughter, who is seven, has already 12 cried over the fear of Shoreham.
I try to assure her that it 13 ll
/'s
(_/
won't come to be.
But, I'm scared also, i
14 l If there was a nuclear disaster, I would not rely b
15 j on LILCO's plan.
I would leave my home and do what was neces-i 16 l sary to get my children.
My husband, who is a teacher, would 17 i immediately leave work and try to find us, to reunite as a l
18 family.
19 ~
Please consider the massive number of people, police,
20 bus drivers, teachers, LILCO workers, who would leave their 21 jobs.
22 I am currently teaching fifth grade.
Our social 23 studies curriculum includes the study of our government and i )<
24 l:
the Constitution.
When I present this lesson, I would like
/~
/Mederst Reporters, irse.
25 '
to use Shoreham as proof that our system works, that if our
[
i l
l 16,376
,#9-7-SueW i
elected officials and the people work through the system, they
[\\ 'j 2
can make a difference.
How sad it would be if the children 3
learned that our system is a farce and democracy does not 4
exist in our country.
5 Thank you.
(APP ause.)
l 6
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Catherine Callahan.
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8
9 OF 10 CATHERINE CALLAHAN 11 MS. CALLAHAN:
Good afternoon.
My name is 4
12 Catherine Callahan, and I live in Coram, New York.
I have beer
].
13 living there since February of this year.
ja I would just like to say a few brief things which 15 I Prepared just today.
I believe that the opening of Shoreham 16 Nuclear Plant -- if it were to deal' with the pursuit of 17 happiness, how can someone feel free to pursue happiness if 18 they don't know that their environment is safe, that their 19 children's safety is ensured in their daily lives.
20 Often, two people in a household go to business 21 and are away from the house.
How can they possibly be reunited 22 with their families in an emergency situation, because 23 ordinary traffic, left alone panic and fire traffic, would
[~)
24 definitely interfer and prohibit their joining together.
Wederal Reorters, Inc.
25 No one wants the nuclear plant here.
On one day,
1 16,377
_#9-8-SueW 1 I asked passers-by to sign a petition against the opening J
2 of the nuclear plant at Shoreham, and within a couple of 3
hours I had approximately 200 signatures.
4 This isn't a legislative matter, because the resi-5 dents who must live in fear do not want it.
They have voted 6
repeatedly against it.
How can that be legally ignored?
7 It is our community.
The laws are made for the 8
people, by the people.
Or, has this gone out of vogue?
9 Do not make saving face, by opening Shoreham, I
10 l!
become the issue, thereby causing the innocent to pay the l
11 !
price of the initial error of the choice of a poor location 12 :
site, but rather correct the situation by acknowleding the J^'s 6
13 h rights of the residents.
There is no shame in making a
(./
14 0 mistake.
There is only shame in not rectifying it as soon as il 15 j it is brought to your attention.
iI 16 l The government has made mistakes in recent history i
17 j like Vietnam, and the ripple effects are still in evidence 18 today through the experiences of the Vietnam vet and their 19 families.
If we do not heed history, we are doomed to repeat 20 i it.
21 Thank you.
22,
(Applause.)
23 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Louise Popike.
9W;ral Reporters, Inc. )
24 i
l A
25 l
(
i
16,378 n#9-9-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
LOUISE POPIKE 4
MS. POPIKE:
Good day, gentlemen.
I am a citizen 5
of Suffolk County.
I live here.
And I believe it is 6
important that the people of Suffolk County be aware that 7
the government has not really made the ripple effect of the 8
Chernobyl accident public.
9 We have very dear friends who have a home in in 'alling in May friends of theirs who are in 10 Greece.
- And, c
11 the military in Greece, were told that the American personnel 12 on military bases in that area had been informed to keep their 0
(~'\\
(_/
13 children inside, to not use any of the' products of the country, 14 to use only can foods for their children and for their own 4
i 15 l services.
16 Subsequently, friends in Munich also informed us 17 that people, military people, in Munich had been given the i
1 18 s,hme instructions.
19 With what has happened to the life and the future 7
20 of the Laplanders, which is very similar and could be used 21 analogous with the American Indian, in destroying the 22 buffalo, I think it's incumbent upon you people and the people 23 of.the Nuclear Regulatory Gommission to question the opening
[)
24 of this p'lant.
/MsJeral Reporters, Inc.
25 Also, I would like to say that -- I believe my
16,379 s_y9-10-SueWI statistics are correct -- that if a plant has been given the
/ )
\\
2 go-ahead to start up for a capacity point, 001, that the 3
statistics are that those plants have been opened.
I would 4
hope that there is no precedent set in such a case in suffolk 5
County.
6 Thank you very much.
7 (Applause.)
8 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else who wishes 9
to make a limited appearance, whether or not they have signed 10 up previously?
11 MS. SINNON:
Yes.
12 JUDGE MARGULIES:
You may come forward.
ri 13 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s
14 l OF 15 lI CATHERINE SINNON 16 MS. SINNON:
My name is Catherine Sinnon.
I live l
17 in Lake Ronkonkoma, which is about seven minutes from here.
18 And before I speak, I would appreciate it if I 19 could know your names?
20 l JUDGE MARGULIES:
Well, you weren't here earlier 21 today when we did introduce ourselves.
This is Judge Shon 22 !
on my left, Judge Kline on my right, and I'm Judge Margulies.
l 23 i MS. SINNON:
How do.you do?
I've heard a great I'
24 b) o. Reporters, Inc. !
deal of feeling as well as thought in this room today.
I l
l 25' imagine it must be very difficult to come here to a strange 1
i f
l
16,3R0 A,9-11-SueW 1 place and meet all these strange people staring you in the
/ T
\\l 2
face and pouring out not just our minds but our hearts to 3
you.
I think it's difficult for us to do as well.
We are 4
very angry; we are very frustrated.
I'm very frustrated.
5 I Personally have.been fighting against this 6
plant since 1978.
That makes it close on eight years now.
7 I know that there are people that have been here today that 8
have been fighting much longer and much harder than me.
So, 9
we have a great deal of pent-up frustration.
But, we also 10 have a very deep commitment.
11 Unlike many of the people that have been here 12 bMay, I.have never bothered to think about what I would do if 13 there was an evacuation.
And, I can't say to you that I would 14 not follow the plan.
The reason that I haven't bothered to 15 think about it is because I_ don't believe that the plant will 16 ever open.
I don't believe it will ever start up, that there 17l will ever be a need for us to do what the mothers and. babies 1
18 of Three Mile Island at Harrisburg had to do.
19 I don't believe there will ever be a need for us 20 to do what the mothers in Poland had to do, or what the PeoP e in Lapland have had to do.
l 21 22 And, another thing that I've heard here today is PeoP e saying I don't believe you are listening.
I don't l
23 i
[~)
24 believe that anything we say here today makes any difference.
(
odweat Reportets, Inc.
25 This is a kangaroo court.
But, I don't believe that, although
16,381
,,#9-12-SueW 1
.I respect people's feelings and I can understand where they 2
come from.
I believe that you are people that care about 3
what you do and'take pride in your work.
r 4
And, I believe that you have hearts, just like 1 5
have a heart, and you care that people are not going to suffer.
6 So, I want to share with you something that appear-7 ed in our local newspaper, the results -- one of the results 8
of the accident at Chernobyl to people in' Sweden.
I think 9
one of the things'you probably heard here today, in addition 10 to the anger and the frustration, the mistrust, the despair, 11 the commitment is people's love of Long Island.
12 One of the other things I wanted to ask you is 13 where you come from?
You know where we come from.
We come 1
14 f rom a marine land, a place that is bordered on all sides by 15 water.
Our lives are touched by sea gulls everyday, and the 16
~ smell of the sea.
You know, they are touched by certain kinds 17 foliage that only grow in places like this.
18 Any day of the week, I can take a ten minute drive 19 and sit in a cove on Long Island Sound and listen to the sea 1
20 gulls and the sound of the sea.
And that's part of who I am as 21 a person.
22 What I want to read you is about the people of 23 Lapland who have a very different environment from ours, but
[)
24 they have been effected by a nuclear accident that happened b,d'oderaf Reoorters, Inc.
l 25 very far from them, not 10 miles away.
This is a translation
16,382 3_19-13-SueW1 from.a Swedish paper.
Rackmir Nielson is catching his breath.
U 2
His eyes are empty and perplexed behind those' thick eyeglasses.
3 His lower lip is twitching, and the tears are not far away.
4 Rackmir has just received a shocking notice, the notice that 5
none of his reindeer can be sold for at least five years.
6 This desperation he shares with hundreds of other Laplanders.
'Instead of ending up on the dinner tables of the 7
4 8
Swedish people, between 25,000 and 40,000 reindeer will be 9
slaughtered and thrown into three meter-deep mass graves.
10 That's only this' year.
In five years time, there will 11 probably be. 100,000 reindeer who will be slaughtered by 12 necessity and discarded.
(D
(/
13 Nobody knows if herd and reindeer and -the whole.
14 Laplander culture can survive this catastrophe.
The guilty l
15 one is the Chernobyl accident at the power plant in the 16 U.S.S.R.
The grazing and feeding grounds were hard hit with j
17 radioactive fallout.
It is not unusual that the reindeer loss, 18 the main staple of food for the animr.ls of the mountain, f
19 contain more than 40,000 rads per kilo.
We might be able i
20 to leave, but we will never be able to eat the summer and 21 winter squash again.
f~
22 Reindeer meat varies between 1,000 and 15,000 23 rads per kilo.
The border line for food stuff is 300 rads.
[
24 In spite of the high degree of contamination, there was still b><rederal Fleporters, Inc.
25 hope left and different solutions were discussed.
Would it
_ - - - = _ - ~ -
4 1,6,383
.,_#9-14-SueW i be possible to move the herds to other feeding grounds with
[)
k' 2
a low cesium level?
Would it not be possible to support feed thi 3
animals with some special foods so they would not have to eat 4
so much of the poisonous lava moss?
5 At an emergency. meeting with the Laps in Quince 6
Mountain during the holidays, they were given these replys.
7 The transport of animals to other grazing grounds is not i
j 8
realistic.
Support feeding over a short time would not help, l
9 because the radioactivity in the animals is too high now.
It i
j 10 sounds hard, but there is not a chance to save reindeer who 11 contain degrees above 3,000 bqk.
The animals are lost.
The l
12 only possibility is emergency slaughter and disposal.
If we i
r^s
(_)
13 refrain from_ slaughter, the herds will get too big and there 14 won't be enough grazing ground.
i 15 This is an icy realism.
How will the people of t
16 this area manage?
Is chere a future for them?
l 17 Rackmir Nielson and his wife, Brigit, have made a 18 living fromJherding reindeer as far back as they can remember.
t i
19 From the bleak and windy mountain tops, and huge rocks and 20 boulders, where clumpy grass grows, they gather up the 21 reindeer to be branded.
Mountain peaks with patches of snow 22 shooting up on the horizon.
And the Nielson family is 23 branding the deer, ready to kill them.
l
[~)
24 Rackmir, Brigit and their daughters have a hard t s.4deral Reporters, Inc.
25 time to understand that their reindeer have been transformed
i 1
16,384 I
into living bodies of poison.
We do not believe it was that O.#9-15-SueW 2
serious at first.
Maybe the researchers made a mistake.
You 3
don't just throw the fruits of your labor into a big hole and 4
cover it over.
The experts must find a solution quickly, 5
they say.
6 Just a little bit more.
On the family dining table, 7
there is reindeer meat everyday.
All meat is from the 8
animals they themselves have slaughtered.
Now, there is still 9
some small reindeer available, but by early fall there won't 10 be any left and they won't be able to slaughter the animals.
11 "I will not eat contaminated meat, Dad," he says firmly.
But 12 there is nothing else for them to eat.
13 Even the rest of the Laplanders natural resources l
14 is not safe.
The red snapper and salmon in the idyllic 15 mountain lakes is 2,000 and 3,000 rads.
The yellow rasberries 16 in the swampy marshes are also in the danger zone.
17 "We try to talk about other things besides the rads i
18 in order not to go mad," said Rakmir, with a sigh.
19 I hope I haven't bored you with that.
I want to 20 say that I think you are very important people.
And, you are 21 people that have a choice.
You can be very bold.
You can be l
)
22 very honest.
You can be brave, or you can turn your back on 23 us.
I think it's a choice.
24 Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.
Let's
-ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 go to that.
16,385 (Applause.)
j O,#9-16-SueW j
JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will hear from the gentleman 2
3 on my right who wants to be heard.
Yes, sir.
Come on up.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5
OF 6
HANS STROILE 7
MR. STROILER:
Gentlemen, my name is Hans Stroile.
8 9f I am a public school teacher in Suffolk.
I consider myself a dedicated man, but based on 10 i
what I have read about any nuclear plant, and especially what 11 f
12 :
has been going on here, I have to tell you that if this plant
/~'s goes on line and something would happen I would walk off my
(
13 !
i i
14 l! job,-I would pick up my children and as fast as possible I l
L e
15 L!
would go off the Island.
16 And, together with me there would be thousands of i
i 17 people who would do the same, especially if they have been 1
18 l doing some reading.
J 19 f The addage that the more we know, the better for l
us is not holding true for LILCO.
For them, it is good if
.20 we knOW as little as possible, because if anybody who reads a 21 ;
i book by Grasman or anything that is a serious study such as, 22 l
1 for instance, a United Nations study of the 50s, will know 23 24 [
that the tiniest emission of radioactivity can lead to defects l
aserai Reporters. inc.
l 25 '
of the genes and would be a serious hazard to our children.
l
\\
16,386
- 9-17-SueW I As a public school teacher, I -- of course, when 2
I hear the word " drill" I immediately think of a fire drill.
3 We hold something like eight or so fire drills a year.
These 4
have been instituted primarily because of a fire in Chicago 5
many years back where a good number of children lost their 6
lives.
7 In such a drill, everybody goes out.
Otherwise, the drill is worthless.
If I, as a teacher, have work to do, 8
9 I have no class and I would choose not to go out, I would have 10 to lock myself in and put out the light so that nobody sees 11 l me, because if they do see me the drill is worthless, because i
12 !
not everybody has gone out.
LILCO would like to make us
(~N i
believe that they can hold a drill with nobody involved.
A 13l 1
ja i drill is not an administrative matter.
L 15 ;
A drill is a great organization in which all the l
16 i People have to be moved.
i 17 LILCO does not seem to realize there may be people 18 coming from Manhatten back into the Island seeking their family.
19 There are people immediately rushing after their children that 20 ;
are in school.
I 21 1 If there are school buses taking those children, 22 f they have to go to three different schools.
I would like to i
23l know what LILCO thinks these buses are going to do, whether
']
24 j they go from one school to the other in the regular pattern.
l_
federal Reporters. Inc.
25 I don't believe this is going to happen.
It's probably going
16,387
- 9-18-SueW 1 to be no bus available.
Parents will go back and forth'looking 2
for their children.
3 There are going to be thousands of people first 4
going in the wrong direction before they turn around and seek 5
refuge.
6 Moreover, I own property in Upstate in an area 7
where there are 300' homes where the streets right now are not 8
being maintained by the town as we feel they should.
As a 9
result of the last 10 years, our properties have sunk down to 10 half of what they were before.
Houses that were 14,000 dollars 11 worth 10 years ago cannot sell right now at. auction for 12 20,000 dollars.
This is because the roads are not being plow-
/(,/
13 ed and because the roads are not properly maintained.
14 It is a very minor problem, because it costs a 15 f hundred dollars or something to have the road plowed once.
i' 16 And, yet the values of the houses are p1mnmeting.
I 17 What does LILCO think happens to our values here if 18 we do not get killed off?
Sure, there were.only 19 or 25 or 19 so dead in Chernobyl, but what about the land that has been 20,
privately owned?
We own our properties which we would like 21 l, once to dedicate to our children.
What happens to it?
22 The nuclear establishment is not going to pay for 23 the damages.
No insurance carrier will want to.get involved
[~)
24 with it.
We carry it.
In fact, we probably pay additionally (s.4' seral Reporters, Inc.
25 through the taxes.
1
~
l 16,388 i
9-19-Suew1 If anything happens here, we will have to leave 2
the Island even if we are unhurt.
Our property will never 3
sell anymore.
The government will not do anything about l
l 4
this.
5 I hope that this plant, which apparently is mainly 6
an investment by three major banks in the area, can be i
7 abandoned now for the good of our people, especially our 8
children's future.
9 Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
There is a lady in the central 12 !
section, towards the rear, who wants to be heard.
f)
(_,'
13 Would you please step forward?
14 !
l I
15 16,
i 17 i f
18 I
19 20 21 j
22 I
23
! )
24 \\
[._-. ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 l
1
l~
i 16,389 i'
l
. ~)9-20-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
} '
2 OF 4
3 TONY SAUL i
j 4
MS. SAUL:
My-name is Tony Saul from East.Islip.
i
~
l 5
.You have heard'many facts today, and I would just like to i
6
-share some of my personal reflections.
4 j
7 ThereLis a questionable' safety of. nuclear power.
i 8
We know that exposure to radiation causes cancer.
We know 9
that the effects of repeated exposure are cumulative.
l l
10 We know that every reactor daily leaks carcinogenic i
11 affluent into the air.
We know the lethal. longevity of l
l 12 plutonium.
We h~ ave all heard of Chernobyl.
I 13 There is a prevailing mismanagement of a public l
14 service utility attempting to sell at any cost a poorly o
i i
15 constructed plant.
There is the absurd notion that a safe 1
16 evacuation plan is possible on Long Island, tk' j
17' We see the improvision of the federal government, l
18 over the objections.of our state and local government, with 19 respect to the adequacy of such a plan.
We-see an unkept 20 promise, Mr. President.
21 Finally, the twisted apparitions of the NRC, FEMA 22 and the Treasury Department demonstrate that at such high 1
l 23 level of responsibilities it is still a nation of the people, 1-24 for the people and buy, b-u-y, the people.
L oer, n cort.es inc.
25 I pray that logic and good faith prevail and that
16,390 i
9-21-SueW1 we may never be tested in accordance with Murphy's Law.
{
2 Thank you.
3 (Applause.)
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Would you step up, please?
5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
op 7
VICKKI GOLDFERRO 8
MS. GOLDFERRO:
I would like to, if you don't 9
mind, read a little trilogy about Chernobyl, very short, 10 because Chernobyl will always be with us.
i II !
JUDGE MARGULIES:
May we have your name?
t 12 !
MS. GOLDFERRO:
Certainly.
My name is Vickki r~'s 13 l Goldferro, and I come from East Islipl.
u J
14 Ui JUDGE MARGULIES:
You may proceed.
O 15 j MS. GOLDFERRO:
Thank you.
Three Mile Island, f
16 l Indian Head, Chernobyl.
What's in a name?
Shoreham, Reagan, 17 l Gorbochov.
- tame is the name of the game, or sudden death.
I 18 What's the difference as long as there is someone to blame?
19 !
What?
No fear, no fault?
James Bond will save l
20 l the day.
He knows the terrain.
Diamonds are forever; so is l
21 l plutonium.
From Russia with love.
22 May Day, Red Square.
And what have we here?
- Why, l
23 l it's the Premier himself standing on the street with the 8ser:
24 l people, a pink ribbon on his lapel hailing the worker.
nmorters. inc. ;
A 25 '
Hundreds of thousands march and wave their little red flag, t
I
16,391
- 9-22-SueW i unaware of the silent killer in the air trailing this mock i
2 Parade, this Red charade.
3 And, Kiev.
How could we Znrget Kiev?
No sleepy 4
Harod here, throbbing city of two million.
Wide-eyed, crazed 5
they gathered up the children, stumbling into the summer storm, 6
stalked by the cumulus cloud of death, fury in their hearts 7
for bitterness already on their tongue.
I 8 l Even those of us who pray as we lay sleepless in 9
the wake of dawn will never know the anguish, the pain.
Or, l
10 will we?
{
11 It's up to you gentlemen.
I 12 ;
(Applause.)
MD 13
,v 14.!
15 '
i 16 l i
17l 18 19 20 21 j i
f 1
22 '
i i
23 [
p 24 '
/v.!
t l
deral Reporters. Inc.,
25 i
____---------__________________________________________________________________J
16,392 10-1-gjw 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else.
You may 2
come forward.
3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 4
OF j
- t 5
MARGARET CORMAN 6
MS. GORMAN:
Hi.
My name is Margaret Gorman.
I am 7
very happy to see you gentlemen here today.
It is a relief 8
for me, and I am sure it is a relief for most of us to be 9
able to speak with you directly, and to relieve some of our 10 fears.
11 I am not
- I don't have anything prepared, but I 12 do have a stack of newspaper clippings here from Newsday, whicb.
)
t' 13 is also very pro-Shoreham.
I am against Shoreham, by the 14 way, and I have a stack of clippings like I said from a 15 newspaper which is a very pro-Shoreham newspaper.
16 The question that most of us are expressing is for 17 our safe ty.
I am sure like most of us we have prayed and l
18 thought about the plant and what it would mean if it were to
)
)
19 open.
We don't feel that LILCO is capable of operating a i
20 nuclear power plant.
I 21 I have clippings here about an oil spill that happeneG 22 last year in Nassau County in Oceanside, which LILCO failed 23 to report for over five hours.
l 9
24 Now, they were cited a fifteen thousand dollar fine Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 for that, the highest fine ever levied on any utility in that i
16,393 10-2-gjw i
1 type of accident.
I have clippings here from the management 2
program where they lied mad falsified records, and claimed 3
that the technicians and radiochemistry program were credited l
1 4
with having classes, and -- let's see here.
I'will just read 5
this directly from the clipping.
6 It says:
NRC officials also criticized the utility 7
for failing to tell the agency of the problem until employees 8
in the department involved complained to the NRC themselves.
9 Any time a worker feels he has to come to the NRC, 10 it indicates a breakdown in the internal system.
11 It starts off saying:
Long Island Lighting Company 12 has suspended or removed four managers in charge of making t
chemical measurements at the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant 14 in the midst of a Federal Investigation into whether records i
15 involving sampling and training had been falsified.
16 The point I am trying to make is that nuclear power j l'7 is one issue, but the issue here is whether LILCO is capable 18 and qualified to run a nuclear power plant.
i 19 I don't think so.
I wasn't here this morning, so I l 20 don't know what was said.
I don't feel this is a kangaroo 21 court.
Like I said, I am very relieved to have you here.
22 I think that we are all human beings trying to i
23 you know, have a meeting of the mind here.
I can't see that j
I
- WmI Reponers, inc.
24 given the information that you are receiving, and going over A
25 your f acts and figures in this whole matter, that this power j
16,394 10-3-gjw.
(
1 plant should have a license tor commercial operation.
There 2
is no evacuation plan.
First of all:, it is a ridiculous i
3 area to even have a nuclear power plant.
It might as well be 4
in midtown Manhattan.
It is ridiculous to have -- they put 5
a nuclear power plant in the most beautiful section of Long 6
Island.
7 You know, no one wants to have this thing around 8
them.
I certaintly don't.
I live in Shoreham, and if my 9
taxes go up, fine.
I will gladly pay quadruple the taxes I am-10 paying now.
We don' t want this plant to open,
f l
11 Personally, I feel the plant will never be opened, j
12 I pray, and maybe it is unfashionable or offensive to some i,_ i, 13 people to bring up God, but I pray to God daily about this 14 matte r.
I don't think God will allow this plant to be i
i 1
15 licensed, and I hope that -- again, you can see the facts i
16 here and see hoe we feel about this.
Look at LILCO.
You 17 can see what kind of company they are.
Like I said, I have l
l 18 a stack of things here.
I wouldn't know where to begin.
I 1
1-19 would be here all day reading these clippings from Newsday, i
20 An oil leak, a gas leak here where people were 21 burned and injured.
Plus, the NRC ruling that the emergency 22 plan was illegal to begin with.
So, again, I don't have 23 anything prepared.
I am just up here speaking for myself t
24 and the majority of them around, which is against the power j
A ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 plant.
i
16,395 10-4-gjw 1
There is also a clipping here from a man, an 2
editorial in Newsday -- not an editorial -- just a letter to 1
3 Newsday.
He is speaking about the panic factor.
Everybody i
4 is going to panic, and there is no way that somebody in 5
Corrum is not going to flee their home.
Nobody likes LILCO 6
on Long Island.
Most people -- not everybody -- but the 7
majority.
I am speaking of here the majoriity of people, 8
This is a democracy.
The majority of people on Long Island 9
do not want Shoreham.
10 I do not want Shoreham.
I am not going to have I feel the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant will never l 11 Shoreham.
12 be licensed.
That is how I feel about it.
13 But since it is up in the air, I just hope we can 14, all be emphatic enough to get our point across to you:
We do 15 not want the plant on Long Island.
We don't want the plant.
16 This is a majority rule country, and the majority have spoken 17 to you here that we don' t want Shoreham.
We don't trust 18 LILCO.
LILCO is a lying, miserable utility.
We don't even 19 want LILCO, much less Shoreham.
20 Again, this letter here -- people are going to go 21 beserk.
If for some reason, -- I am sure you are all three 22 fine human beings.
If by some bizarre twist of fate the 23 l
plant ever gets a license, there will be an accident, because 24 LILCO cannot, you know, they are not capable of running a f
A McW Rnenus, inc.
25 nuclear power plant.
They can barely run a utility, never j
i
.0-5-gjw 16,396 1
mind a nuclear power plant.
e 2
So, you get these kind of letters from people who l
3 are just so frantic at the thought of this that everybody is
{
4 going to go beserk, and it is going to be mob confusion.
j l
5 There are going to be people with guns killing each other.
i 6
I am not just saying this, because here is a letter 7
from Newsday.
This is a man who describes what is going to 8
happen -- in fact, this is a Vietnam veteran who is describing' I
9 what an airlif t evacuation was like.
I won't go into that.
10 It is pretty horrible.
And he wraps it up pretty much by 11 saying:
I, for one, will take my rifles and ammunition, load!
12 my family into the car and get the hell out of here.
LILCO i
13 employees had better not try to slow me down.
If something 14 happens to my car, I will forceably take someone elses.
Nothi:
15 short of a bullet will stop me from evacuating my family 16 to safety.
17 Now, this is not
- personally I don't know if I 18 would say the gun, but this pretty much borders on my 19 sentiment personally, but this is just the kind of letters 20 we get in our local paper.very, very often.
21 So, again, we don' t want this plant.
We are not 22 going to have this plant on Long Island, and I just pray to 23 God that you will make the right decision.
24 Thank you very much.
A ederet Reporters, Inc.
25 (Applause.)
16,397 10-6-gjw 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Do we have anyone else?
You 2
may step forward, sir.
i 3
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT l
t 4
OF l
5 DOMINICK FORMICA 6
MR. FORMICA:
Gentlemen.
My name is Dominick I
i 7
Formica.
High school teacher, retired.
The young lady who I
8 just spoke, completely unknown to me, had just a few pieces i
9 of paper to refer to.
I guess I have been impressed with 10 the problem long enough to have a stack I would say about j
11 two inches thick at this stage of the game.
l 12 It probably started with the Newsday series on how 13 poorly the Shorehan. plant was being constructed.
I guess 14 this easily has to go back some seven or so years.
My l
i 15 background is in metals and other areas of certification as l
j l
16 far as teaching is concerned.
I am also a journeyman tool and 17 dye maker.
My point is, I have a nodding acquaintance with 18 metals.
19 Part of the story dealt with a shipment of seamless 20 tubing of a large diameter, which I presume could be carrying 21 radioactive water.
Steam under pressure conditions.
I 22 understand from the reading that there were surface flaws in 23 this pipe, and that is just one thing that stands out in my 24 mind, gentlemen.
If you know the item, and I am quite sure A
erat Heporters, IrH:.
25 you do, there were many things that were brought out there.
10-7-gjw 16,398 1
They decided on repair of the pipe. rather than send I I
2 it back for piping tubing that would meet the specs.
They 3
sent a guy with a hand grinder to work grinding down the l
4 fissures in this tubing, and then sent welders in to build 5
it up and then someone to polish it off and have it look good.
6 Now, if this tubing is to withstand the pressures 7
that I presume it is designed for, this chipping away and i
l 8
welding, et cetera, et cetera, has put in localized stresses. '
l 9
The likelihood is there can be failure.
Now, that !
10 just about encapsulizes many thoughts that are on my mind i
i 11 about the plant.
12 There is no doubt that LILCO has used poor judgment.
g
?
(/
13 There seems to be little doubt that they can properly i
i 14 supervise construction of such a plant that can be quite 15 dangerous to the general population of the area.
l l
16 I can 't add any more to it, except that the Federal 17 Government should listen closely to the opinions not only of 18 the local municipalities, and the representatives of that i
19 area, but listen carefully to them because they do, in fact, l
20 represent the population.
i 21 My apologies for not getting here earlier, but I l
l 22 really had no plan to speak.
But since the time was late, and 23 I
it seemed that no one else wanted to, I thought I would put t
24 in my two cents.
3 AWMerW Reportm, Inc, 25 I am an au mont of industry, perhaps even the j
16,399 10-8-gjw fI i
! l 1
nuclear industry.
I know about stocks and bonds.
And I know ' l 4
l 2
what makes things go.
But if there is only the hint of a
{
1 (
3 problem from Shoreham there need not even be a problem, but l
4 even if there is only the hint of a problem, there will be 5
bedlem on the roads and I have jocularly said to my wife:
l 6
Sweetheart, let's not die out in the street.
Let's stay in i
(
7 our own house, because one way or the other it will not be I
8 a good situation.
9 And there need not be an actual emergency.
You 10 gentlemen have a definite responsibility, and I can't see it j 11 in any other light than the fact that that plant cannot 12 operate for all the reasons mentioned, and all the reasons j
8 l
13 you gentlemen know.
I i
14 Thank you, gen tlemen.
i i
15 (Applause.)
16 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else.
We will l
l 17 take a concluding -- we have that gentleman.
18 SENATOR JOHNSON:
Senator Johnson.
Owen H. Johnson.:
l 19 20 21 l
22 i
23 24 l
Metal Reporters, W.
25 i
i
10-9-gjw 16,400
(
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
SENATOR OWEN H. JOHNSON 4
SENATOR JOHNSON:
Thank you very much.
I didn't 5
expect to walk right on, but I do appreciate it.
6 I wrote a statement here.
I don't intend to read 7
it all.
My statement would be entered into the record.
I 8
will leave copies here, and it simply states my opposition 9
to opening of the plant under the current circumstances due 10 to the lack of emergency evacuation plan, and a lack of 11 confidence in the performance of LILCO.
i i
12 The fact that I supported the bill providing that 0
I 13 the Governor can negotiate for a takeover of Long Island l
14 Lighting Company, and it states in that bill that the plant 15 shall not open.
I feel it should not open, and I would like I
16 to leave this testimony with you.
1-7 Thank you very much, j
18 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Your statement will conclude this 19 session, sir.
20 21 22 23 i
24 l
AMwer i nnaters. w.
25
16,401 1
10-10-gjw 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
MIKE DePAOLI 4
MR. DePAOLI:
My name is Mike DePaoli, and I am a S
former New York Army National Guard Member of New York State.
6 I am here to point out the criteria in case the 7
State and county did participate in the evacuation plan.
8 over approximately the last ten year period there 9
has been a drawback of military components within the New 10 York State Army National Guard here on Long Island.
11 If an evacuation were to occur with State partici-l 12 pation, it would be almost an impossibility to maintain that ;
/
13 manpower of resources that would be available through the 14 State.
15 As you know, in case of national crisis, in which a 16 nuclear power plant problem could cause, the military in this 17 case, the Army National Guard would be nationalized.
Nobody 18 here and nobody in the former hearings ever looked into the 19 feasibility or potential catastrophic incidences that could 20 occur because the state is not prepared even if it was to 21 par ticipate, nor is Suf folk County.
22 When we speak of resources available in the County,,
l 23 you look to the police department.
They are our first line l
9www nuore... inc.
24 of defense.
They are not equipped with oxygen and are not l
A 25 equipped for handling nuclear contamination areas.
They are
i 16,402 ll-gjw 1
not equipped with even basic nuclear masks.
In the military, 2
you have approximately three to six seconds to prepare from 3
your holster outfit in this particular format, on the side, to; l
4 mount the mask on your head, to roll down your sleeves, and tol 5
hit the dirt to prepare for a nuclear incident.
i 6
That nuclear incident just happens to be nuclear 7
radiation.
I ask you gentlemen in the population of Long i
8 Island, and we are talking about wind differentials and 9
disparities of a holocaust that is taking place, drifting l
10 towards New York City.
This has nothing to do with just the I
i 11 regional area of Long Island.
It doesn't end at Montogue j
i 12 Point.
You are looking and wind flow velocity.
It could 13 affect millions of people varying towards New York City.
14 The bottom line is that even with state participation 15 nobody, be it the county or be it the state, ever prepared a 16 research statement indicating what they would need if they I
i 17 did participate.
Just to have standby reserve units ready.
18 Not only New York State proper, but also on Long Island.
19 Neither the state nor the county through its police 20 departments he.ve the equipment or manpower to effectively 21 activate or safeguard 'an incident of vast amounts.
22 So, I indicate to you people right now this 23 particula r issue is no longer an epidemic situation here on i
24 Long Island.
As you know, you are intelligent human beings, l
3 I
4 y nemetm, W.
l 25 it is American-wide and International-wide, the incident at j
j k
J
?
10-12-gjw 16,403 1
Chernobyl, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think you have to j
i 2
look at the pros and cons, and the' pros and cons come down fl 3
to this.
It is a matter of human life versus the American l'
l 4
dollar.
I t
5 What value are you willing to place on the lives 6
of hundreds of thousands of people, not only in this generation I
7 but the generations to come.
It comes down to a political 8
issue.
It is logistically oriented from the White House, and i !
9 it has been given to you time and time again indications behind 10 the scenes.
And this year is more important than any other t
11 year.
It is a matter of dollar amount that the corporations 12 can make, the political contributions, and behind the scenes,
's-13 and this County had a commitment from President Reagen that i
14 Federal intervention would not take place unless it were l
15 oriented through the States, and, i.e.,
Suffolk County.
16 I am indicating to you that even if Suffolk County i
17 and the State did participate that they do not have the i
18 resources available to do it with.
19 In addition to that, the White House once again 20 has' appropriations to go ahead and allocate funds for you 21 gentlemen to be here.
This is a political year.
I don't 22 know why in my vast venue that the majority of the House I
23 Appropriations Committee did not go ahead and do exactly what! '
i 9w...i nmorm.. w.
24 a political maneuver would have done, remove your appropriations j
A 25 Maybe then this hold matter would come to a catapult, indicating i
16,404 10-13-gjw l
1 that Shoreham is not feasible.
That any logical human 4
2 being, taking into consideration all aspects would realize 3
that even if the evacuation plan in the ten mile radius l
4 was approved, the County nor the State would have the 5
resource or the manpower to do it, but being it is a political 6
year, I would not vote for any Republican running for public 7
office based on the non-commitments of Ronald Reagan in the 8
White House.
9 And I wouldn't vote for any Democrat unless they 10 go ahead and remove the appropriations from the NRC.
11 Apparently it is a money issue.
LILCO had a good name 12 recognition on Long Island.
We are a business oriented I
8 f
13 community and society.
They have destroyed that public l
l 14 re cognition.
l 15 So, I ask you people to be the eyes and ears.
To look and see if your grandchildren were living on Long Island,l i
16 i
l 17 to look for the years ahehd to the next generation.
What is
)
l 18 the bottom line.
What is the value of human life here on 19 Long Island.
20 Thank you.
21
( Appla'use. )
22 JUDGE MARGULIES:
That concludes this afternoon's 23 session.
We will recess until six p.m.
l 24 (Whe reupon, the hearing recessed at 4 :00 p.m, to i
i ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 reconvene at 6:00 p.m.,
this same day.)
16,401 10-10-gjw' 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
'/
\\
2 OF i
f 3
MIKE DePAOLI l
1 I
4 MR. DePAOLI:
My name is Mike DePaoli, and I am a i
i <
former New York Army National Guard Member of New York State. I 5
i 6
I am here to point out the criteria in case the 7
State and county did participate in the evacuation plan.
t 8
Over approximately the lasp ten year period there.
l if i
i 9
has been a drawback of military components within the New I
10 York State Army National Guard here on Long Island.
s J) 11 If an evacuation.were to occur with State partici-i
)
12 pation, it would be almost an impossibility to maintain that 13 manpower of resources that would be available through the 14 State.
l 1
i 15 As you know, in case of national crisis, in which a
(
.i l
16 nuclear power plant problem could cause, the military in this
\\
17 case, the Army National Guard would be nationalized.
Nobody' 18 here and nobody in the former hearings aever looked into the t
t f
19 feasibility or potential catastrophic incidences that could i
i 20 occur because the state is not prepared even if it was to 21 participate, nor is Suffolk County.
22 When we speak of resources available in the County, i
23 you look to the police department.
They are our first line
)
24 of defense.
They are not equipped with oxygen and are not As e.oero moon.n, inc.
25 equipped for handling nuclear contamination areas.
They are l
{'11-gjw
'I a
1 not equipped with even basic nuclear masks.
In the military, 2
you have approximately three to six seconds to. prepare from -
]
- {
i 3l your holster outfit-in this particular format, on the side, to 4
l 4
l 4
mount the mask on your head, to roll down your sleeves, and toi l
l j
5 hit the dirt to prepare for a nuclear incident.
t i
j 6
That nuclear incident just happens to be nuclear l
i I
l 7
radiation.
I ask you gentlemen in the population of Long L
i j
8 Island, and we are talking about wind differentials and l
l l
9 disparities of a holocaust that is taking place, drif ting i
1 1
10 towards New York City.
This has nothing to do with just the l
l 11 regional area of Long Island.
It doesn't end at Montogue.
i i
12.
Point.
You are looking and wind flow velocity.
It could i
1 i
13 affect millions of people varying towards New York City.
l l
14 The bottom line is that even with state participation i
i I
15 nobody, be it the county or be it the state, ever prepared a 1
16 research statement indicating what they would need if they 17 did participate.
Just to have standby reserve units ready, t
18 Not only New York State proper, but also cn Long Island.
19 Neither the state nor tha county through its police 20 departments have the equipment or manpower to ef fectively 21 activate or safeguard 'an incident of vast amounts.
22 So, I indicate to you people right now this 23 particular issue is no longer an epidemic situation here on O
24 tene 1sland.
is vee xnow, you are inte11isene hnman eeines, I
~ n e o cocor m,sne.
25 it is American-wide and International-wide, the incident at
~10-12-gjw 16,403 i
t
'l Chernobyl, et cetera, ot' cetera.
But I think you have to l
<r N
2 look at the pros and cons, and the ' pros and cons come down 3
to this.
It is a matter of human life versus the American l
I l
4 dollar.
i I
5 What value are you willing to place on.the lives I
6 of hundreds of thousands of people, not only in this generation 7
but the generations to come.
It comes down to a political 8
issue.
It is logistically oriented from the White House, and 9
it has been given to you time and time again indications behind 10 the scenes.
And this year is more important than any other l
11 year.
It is a matter of dollar amount that the corporations j
12 can make, the political contributions, and behind the scenes, 13 and this County h'ad a commitment from president Reagen that 14 Federal intervention would not take place unless it were f
15 oriented through the States, and, i.e., Suf folk County.
16 I am indicating to you that even if Suffolk County 17 and the State did participate that they do not have the 18 resources available to do it with.
19 In addition to that, the White House once again 20 has' appropriations to go ahead and allocate funds for you 21 gentlemen to be here.
This is a political year.
I don't 22 know why in my vast venue that the majority of the House 23 Appropriations Committee did not go ahead and do exactly what '
24 a political maneuver would have done, remove your appropriation ens n==mi, w.
l 25 Maybe then this hold matter would come to a catapult, indicatfa
16,404 10-13-gjw I
e 1
that Shoreham is not feasible.
That any logical human l ' (~T l
N/
2 being, taking into consideration all aspects would realize l
4 J
3 that even if the evacuation plah in the ten mile radius j
e' 4
was approved, the County nor the State would have the I
5 resource or the manpower to do it, but being it is a political' 6
year, I would not vote for any Republican ~ running for public office based on the non-commitments of Ronald Reagan in the~
7
}
i 8
White House.
9 And I wouldn't vote for any Democrat unless they i
10 go' ahead and remove the appropriations from the NRC.
\\
11 Apparently it is a money issue.
LILCO had a good name i
1
{
12 recognition on Long Island.
We are a business oriented s& 1 13 community and society.
They have destroyed that public j
14 recognition.
1 15 So, I ask you people to be the eyes and ears.
To 16 look and see if your grandchildren were living on Long Island, 17 to look for the years ahead to the next generation.
What is i
18 the bottom line.
What is the value of human life here on 19 Long Island.
20 Thank you.
21
( Appla'use. )
22 JUDGE MARGULIES :
That concludes this afternoon's 23 session.
We will recess until six p.m.
()
24 (Whereupon, the hearing recessed at 4 :00 p.m, to ww.r n==n.n. inc.
25 reconvene at 6 :00 p.m., this same day.)
1
_o