ML20214T389
| ML20214T389 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Shoreham File:Long Island Lighting Company icon.png |
| Issue date: | 09/23/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#486-0930, CON-#486-930 86-533-01-OL, 86-533-1-OL, OL, OL-3, OL-5, NUDOCS 8609300279 | |
| Download: ML20214T389 (117) | |
Text
OTG KAL O
UlN11EU STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO:
50-322-OL (EP Exercise)
(ASLBP No. 86-533-01-OL)
LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY (Shoreham Nuclear Power Station, Unit 1)
LIMITED APPEARANCE / EVENING SESSION
.nU LOCATION:
HAUPPAUGE, NEW YORK PAGES:
16405 - 16514 DATE:
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 1986 i
l
/
>og ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
O Official Reporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, D.C. 20001 kk kObcx S$00$322 (202) 347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
p.
,e 1
Sim 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA L- (i 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
\\~
/-
3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
EVENING SESSION 5
________________x 6
In the Matter of:
7 LONG ISLAND LIGHTING COMPANY Docket No. 50-322-OL-
'(EP Exercise) 8 (Shoreham Nuclear Power (ASLBP No. 86-533-01-OL Station,. Unit 1) 9
______----------X Suffolk County Legislature Bldg.
jj Building 20 t
Veterans Memorial Highway 12 Hauppauge,.Long Island 11787
)
Tuesday, September 23, 1986 14 The Evening Session of the Limited Appearance 15 Session reconvened at 6:06 p.m.
16
.BEFORE:
MORTON B. MARGULIES, Chairman The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 18 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C.
20555 jg J:
JERRY R-KLINE, Member
[
20 The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board f
Nuclear Regulatory Commission 21 3,
Washington, D.C. 20555 t
22 FREDERICK J.
SHON, Member The Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 23 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C.
20555 25 l
l
.+
~
s B
Sim'2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF PAGE 1
Denise-Outlaw 16,406 gw.
2 John Harper 16,410 3
Jennifer Gray.
~16,412 4
John Huber
.16,414 5
Ray Kluytenaar 16,4 M 6
Nancy'Faltermayer.
16,422 7
John Faltermayer
'16,424 8
Paul Lozowsky
'16,426 g
Bmco Kagan 16,429 to Susan Levy 16,434-g Dave Crow 16,435 Chais George 16,439 13 d
Way Shen 16,442 34 Henry McKenna 16,446 Alam Jean Mastrangelo 16,448 I
Lora Kuykendall 16,449' l.
"E 18 E
Steven Kvit 16,456 j
19 l
Dorothy Cipriano 16,458
[
20 f
James Maxwell 16,460 21 3
16,462 i
Meyer Steinberg 22 Mary Waters 16,464 23 Derleen Commacator 16,467 24 Sharon Brown 16,472 Brian Karpin 16,475
C LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT oft
- PAGE, Lee Kelly 16,478 2
Philip Goldstein' 16,480 3
Van Howell 16,483 4
Marsha Slakin 16,488 5
_ Pat Flatley 16,489 Thomas J. Cologero 16,491 Susan Gaibrais 16,492 Richard Hermansen 16,493 Lillian Selzer 16,494 June Di Tommaso 16,496
~
11 Michell Singer 16,497 12 Peter Quinn 16,499 Tim Robinson 16,506 14
_ Mary Delavekia 16,508' 15 Marie Salsor 16,510 16 Maury IIelbibina 16,511 g
17 Frank Mattera 16,513 18
- l 19 a
=
4l 21 22 23 24 25
-16,405 Sim-11-11
. EVENING SESSION (6: 05 p.m. )
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Please come to order.
3 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission i
on June 6th, 1986 instituted this proceeding to consider evidence on the Federal Emergency Management Agency's exercise of the Long Island Lighting Company plan for the 4
Shoreham Nuclear Power Station as to whether it shows 9
fundamental flaws in the LILCO emergency plan.
The exercise was. conducted 1on February 13th, 1986.s 11 The Board assigned to hear this matter is 12 composed of Judge Jerry R. Kline, sitting on my right, I)
Judge Frederick J. Shon, sitting on my left, and I am 14 Judge Morton B. Margulies, Chairman.
i Parties to the proceeding are the Long Island j
'16 Lighting Company, the applicant, the Nuclear Regulatory
[
g 17 I
Commission staff and the intervenors who oppose the 18 i
g application, the State of New York, the County of Suffolk, j
19 New York and the Town of South Hampton, New York.
~ 20 J
The issues to be litigated have not as yet l
21 t
j f
been ruled upon.
The matter is currently under considera-tion.
23 We are conducted a limited appearance session 24 I()
here today pursuant to Section 2.715A of Part 10 of the 4
]
i
16,406 Sim 11-2 1
Code of Federal Regulations.
It permits persons not a
(~'S 2
party to make a limited appearance by making an oral
'<J 3
or written statement of their position.
4 The statements made by persons not a party 5
to the proceeding are not evidence.
The' appearances can 6
alert the Board and the parties to areas in which evidence 7
may need to be adduced.
8 In' order to accommodate as many persons as 9
possible, it is customary to limit all presentations to 10 five minutes each.
Written statements -which are placed 11 in the record are not limited.
12 We would like to start with the first person 13 making their limited appearance.
That is Denise Outlaw.
~~
14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 DENISE OUTLAW t
h 17 MS. OUTLAW:
Gentlemen, my name is Denise 18 Outlaw and I am on the Board of Directors of Ratepayers j
ig Against LILCO, Incorporated.
Founded in.1983 and incor-porated in 1985, Ratepayers Against LILCO is a non-profit, 20 4
volunteer, political action group which encourages and l
21 ir promotes candidates sharing our twin goals, one, preventing 22 23 the opening of shoreham and, two, controlling the soari~ng electric rates.
24 1
Our group specializes in providing in providing
(, /
25 m
16,407 Sim 11-3 1
technical assistance to candidates as they make their r~'s 2
way through the often baffling maze of New York State N,/
3 election law.
4 Being visitors to our area you may be helped 5
in your deliberations by a brief review of election' law 6
and recent electorial history.
New York is one of only 7
three States in the Union that allows cross-endorsement, 8
that is, candidates' names may appear on more than one ballot line.
They may appear on a major party line, g
jo Democrat or Republican, they may appear on a minor party line, and in this State that is conservative, liberal j3 r right-to-life, or they may appear on a special independen:
12 ballot line.
13
\\ ~#
This is a long established custom in New York, 34 and particularly on Long Island.
The names of these 15 special ballot lines intentionally highlight a single 16 issue and attract voters who have an overwhelming interest j
g 2
in that issue, not an incidental, but an overwhelming 18 5
and consuming interest in that issue.
,g Y
Since our original ef fort in 1983 there have j
20 d
been several other anti-Shoreham lines, including Citizens 21 ir Against LILCO, Concerned Citizens Against LILCO, Taxpayers 22 Against Shoreham and new this year Public Power Alternatives to LILCO.
24 O)
There have also been lines dedicated to other q
l 4
16,408 Sim 11-4 1
. single issues such as sewer tax opposition party and 2
neicjhborhood preservation party.
.{
3 Remember that these are.not fringe candidates 4
but are major party candidates seeking supplemental ballot
-5 lines.
6 What does it take to get on the ballot in 7
Well, on the five permanent lines it requires 8
nominating petitions circulated and signed by approximately g
two percent of the party registrants in that district, 10 whether it is a village, town or county.
11 The signatures and the addresses follow strict formalities.
There is some coded information that i
12 13 must be included.
It gets a bit involved,.but it isn't O
14 so bad for the established parties becuase they have regular 15 workers who are familiar with these rules and are assigned-to every election district.
16 17 But-to put together an independent line requires an enormous effort and an enormous commitment.
It means 18 j
19 recruiting volunteer petition carriers, organizing and Jj directing the drive, trudging around for two hot and 20 a
j d
muggy weeks in August to gather the signatures in neighbor-21 ir hoods and supermarkets and in door-to-door campaigns, 22 Because independent petitioning comes after i
23 party petitioning, there are checks for duplicates and 24
~
for ther errors.
Ultimately there are hours of checking 25 i
16,409 Sim 11-5 1
and double checking petitions for technical flaws before
{" x.,
2 submitting the completed documents.
Many Herculean efforts
+s 3
have been tossed on the trash heap because Charles signed 4
as Chuck or an ED number was missing.
Yet time and time 5
again candidates and their supporters have made this 6
kind of rigorous commitment and the electorate has 7
rewarded them with their votes.
8 Remember that voters could cast their votes g
for these major party candidates up on Row A or Rv' B, to but they purposefully scan the lower half of the bal.ot ti in order to place their votes where they will send a 12 specific message loud and clear, and they have been loing 13 this in ever increasing numbers since 1983.
e
)
'~'
14 In 1983 Democrat Stephen Englebright, a scientist and educator was running his first ever political 15 16 campaign.
His Republican opponent was a popular, long-time h
17 incumbent in a district where registered Republicans I
18 outnumbered Democrats by about three to two.
- However, 5
~j 19 this popular encombent just happened to have the wrong.
a view about Shoreham.
20 f
Englebright chose the name Ratepayers Against 21 i
E LILCO and about three and a quarter percent of that 22 county's legislative districts' voters chose Ratepayers.
23 Englebright won with his combined tally and 60 percent 24 O
(_,)
f his winning margin came from the Ratepayers line.
25
16,410 Sim 11-6 i
In 1984 two candidates carried the Ratepayers
~.s 2
Against LILCO banner, a Congressional candidate and an N',/
3 Assembly candidate.
12, 261 votes were cast on that line, about five percent of the total.
4 5
In 1985 a record 27 candidates ran on anti-Shoreham lines, including one on Citizens Against LILCO.
6 In these town and county races where anti-Shoreham can-7 didates ran on independent lines those lines got 129,000 8
g votes, about seven and a quarter percent of the votes cast in the<.
races.
10 Remember that in 185 a quarter of a million g
people voted in Suffolk, not a small sample of popular g
P nion by any means.
This is not a newspaper poll plus i
13 p
ik-or minus a certain amount of percent.
This is not a random g
telephone survey of a handful of people with tiny numbers 15 Projected across a large population.
This is a general 16 I
election open to all citizens with its results tabulated 17 2
and certified by the Board of Elections.
18 In 1985 Suffolk County voters elected 17 j
19 Y
county legislators with proven anti-Shoreham stands and j
20 f
only one pro-Shoreham legislator, 17 to 1.
21 g
In the spring of 1986 in a special election to fill a vavancy on the county legislature more major party candidates were cross-endorsed on anti-Shoreham lines,
/q Ratepayers Against LILCO and Concerned Citizens Against C',
25
~
r 4
a a
16,409 4
Si :11-7
'1 LILCO combined.-polled fifteen and.a--third percent of'the 2
total votes cast.
3 Anti-Shoreham candidates, Barnette and Bodenberg, 4
between them captured 92 percent of all the-votes cast 5
'against the lone pro-Shoreham opponent.
6 By the way, this district is outside west 7
and upwind-of'the described.10-evacuation zone and voters 8
still say no to Shoreham.
9 This year's six candidates will.be running 10 on the'Ratepayers Against LILCO line in races ranging 11 from United States Congress to Village Trustee.
We are 12 proudly running our first Nassau County candidate in the 13 Ninth Senatorial District.
Four other candidates will be O
14 running on the new Public Power Alternative to'LILCO line.
15 A large, but still undetermined number, will be running 16
.on Concerned Citizens Against LILCO.
s While New York State law allows citizens 37 18 to run on more than one line, it restricts them to three,
I j
19 and some candidates may have to drop or amalgamate their ther party endorsements.
20 d
Even if they don't use their anti-Shoreham 21 ir line, they have already prove the strength and courage 22 f-their convictions by successfully completing the grueling 23 qualifying petition drives.
24 O
People vote with their feet, and according V
25
'16,410 Sim 11-8 1
to this Sunday's~Newsday poll,-62 percent will be picking O
2 them up and putting.them.down in-quick order should the
-V
~
3 need-arise'.
4 The; people vote with,their votes, too, and I 5
urge the commission to consider the ever increasing 6
electorial auccess of dedicated anti-Shoreham ballot 7
lines, an e.dmittedly peculiar New York and Long Island 8
custom.as a resounding vote of no confidence in the, 9
proposed evacuation plan, the licensing.of Shoreham and 10 LILCO management in general.
11 Thank you.
12 (Applause.)
13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
John IIarper.
V 14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 JOHN HARPER 17 MR. IIARPER:
Good evening, gentlemen.
18 My name is John liarper and I represent my j
Ig family, my wife Karen and two daughters, Karin and Tiffany.
J l
Y u gentlemen are faced with a very difficult 20 a
5 decision.
21
!r If I may just put up the picture of my 22 daughters having a wonderful time in the bath tub which 23 is fed by groundwater which Shoreham could very easily 24 aff ct.
25
16,411 Sim 11-9 1
We.are here-to help you make that decision.
I.
2 Most of my fellow'Long Islan'ders here tonight and also 1
.t 3
according to a;Newsday poll most of Long Islanders feel 4
that they.would be unable to evacuate s'a'fety when there'i, 1
s 5
an accident at Shoreham.
6 Our faith in you to make the right decision i
7 to close Shoreham comes from.our faith in a much higher 8
power..Our President often. talks of his faith in God,.and j
g after his speeches he always asks God-to bless us all.
to If we claim as in our song America The l
l 11 Deautiful that God Shed His Grade On Thee, then we should 12 hold our faith-in God and pray that he helps you make this L
i 13 important decision.
.I 34 I would just like to say a small prayer to help you make that decision, and it is:
Lord God, bless 15 t
these men to make the decision as good stewards of your 16
}
'g creation, your will be done, in Jesus name.
Amen.
j7 l
18 Thank you.
I (Applause.)
j 19 f
s JUDGE MARGULIES:
Darleen Cammarato..
20 a
i d
hard to read the last name, from Artley Lane, West sayville.
' 21 e
i 3
r (No response. )
}
22 ennifer Gray.
23 i
24 25 1
1 1
16,412 ED APPEARANCE STATEMENT Sim~11-10 2
OF i '
3 JENNIFER GRAY-4 9
MS. GRAY:
. Good evening, Your Honors.
5 My name is Jenn fer Gray.
This is my son 6
Garrett, seven, and my daughter, Cristine, four.
7 My daughter is four years old.
She has just
.8 started dance lessons learning balance and coordination.
9 She-loves it.
I want her to be able to continue to dance,.
l to to grow and=to learn to. explore without the ever present 11 dark cloud of Shoreham over her head.
12 Her roots are here on Long Island.
My family-13 settled in Southold back in 1640 in a man named Peter O
14 Hallock.
It would be a shame if she and her brother couldn't 15 grow up here where her family has been for generations.
18 Our son is seven years old.
He has asked me 17 many questions about Shoreham, what is it, why do people 18 talk about it so much and it is safe.
And I have to tell l
j gg him, no,'it is not safe, a
j If he had the power, he says, he would shoot 20 a
d it all down.
21 ir We know accidents can and do happen.
Three 22 Mile Island and Chernobyl are grim examples.
Could we 23 evacuate Long Island if it happened here?
Imagining 24
(
a le k at Shoreham and telling the public to calmly 25 L.
16'413-
-Sim 11-11 1
evacuate.
Imagine a mother frantically trying to contact 2
her children's schools to see if their buses have left and thenhavingoneiobthosebusesbreakdown.
The mother 3
4 waits for one child to ~geti home, packs him in the car and 5
then begins a. frenzied search.up and down local streets e,
4 6'
looking for the other' child's bus, dodging cars along the 7
way.
8 The radio announ.ced cloud of radiation is g
expectred in.two minutes as strong winds that day have 10 blown it faster than expected.
And once she has reached ji the expressway or parkway traffic is at a standstill.
But 12 she is s:1pposed to evacuate in a calm, orderly manner.
13 Could you under the same circumstances?
O 14 We all know in our hearts that there is n
safe evacuation for Long Islanders.
One look at the 15 16 cover of Newsday on July 18th, 1986 showing a huge traffic s'
17 backup of eight miles and lasting five hours due to an is accident shows how traffic backs up on a good, " normal" I
j is day.
Jj Throw in the mass hysteria of a nuclear 20 a
~
d accident, speeding motorists with frenzied composure 21 ir trying a flee for their very lives, and I' don't'think 22 any f us could clearly picture the traffic jam accidents 23 and sheer horror that would follow.
24 Do not make our children an endangered species.
25
16,414 Sim 11-12 Life is more precious than that.
j Thank you.
/~-
2 (APP ause.)
l 3
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Hanns Streuli.
4 (No re'sponse. )
5 Tony Saul.
6 (No response. )
7
- Y 8
(No ' response. )
g W
have the name Margarette Gorman.
I believe 0
she testified this afternoon.
11 M.
Doppoli.
He did also testify this afternoon.
John Huber, would you please step up.
13
,y k_-)
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 14 OF 15 JOHN HUBER 16 3
MR. HUBER:
Good evening, Members of the Board, 17 e
and ladies and gentlemen.
18 My name is John Huber. I live at 24 Buckingham j
19 Y
Meadow Road, Setauket, Long Island.
I have lived there j
20 f
for approximately two years.
Before that I resided in 21 l
Wading River with my wife and sons and we lived within a 22 half a mile of the Shoreham Nuclear Power Plant.
23 I had worked at Shoreham on several occasions.
24 (nk-)
On one occasion I was a supervisor of approximately 800 25
16,415 Sim 11-13 1
workers, plumbers, steamfitters and millwrights.
( x, 2
Over a period of time,I became concerned about Q) 3 the plant, some of the things that I had witnessed and other 4
things that had been related to me.
5 As a result in 1982, I first spoke out publicly 6
my concerns about Shoreham and I advocated an independent 7
inspection.
What was to happen to me I found was common-8 place throughout the industry for anyone who speaks out 9
asjainst the nuclear industry.
10 Things start to happen in your life and in 11 your employment and even in your family life to your. kids 12 in school.
And here we are and we are talking about the 8
i l
13 Long Island Lighting Company giving them the trust that they I (g) 14 are going to take care of all of us and our families in 15 the event that something goes wrong at Shoreham.
16 I spoke out in April of 1982.
The following i
j 37 day I went to work and when I came out from work I had a e
I 18 tire slashed on my car.
Within a few months I had to go i
g ig into the hospital for knee surgery and during this time I was laid off and I was told that I could reapply when 20 f
the doctor gave me permission to return to work.
21 l
i
{r In the meantime several of my fellow workers 22 had told me that they would never hire me back because I 23 had advocated an independent inspection of the plant, and I
24 (s
b as a result when I did go they told me they had no job 25 i
l
__J
16,416 Sim 11-14 1
for me.
/~3 2
over the next few years I had different V
3 employers tell me they had been told not to hire me for 4
various reasons, but they had hired me and they were very 5
happy with my employment.
6 And I thought that maybe this had all passed, 7
and this spring I got a call to apply for a forman's job t
8 at LILCO's Northport plant.
When'I applied the contractor l
l 9
who was doing the interviewing, when we got done he.says i
to everything looks v ery good, you come highly recommended, 11 but he says I just have to make one phone call to check 12 something out.
j 13 He had to call the Long Island Lighting Company,
/,,\\
i t
I 14 and he was told by the Long Island Lighting Company that 15 under no conditions would he be alllowed to hire me, tuat 16 I was considered an undesirable employee, that a list was I
h 17 maintained and my name was on the list as an undesirable 18 employee.
a c
(
j 19 I have worked on LILCO sites since 1960 and H
(
l I have never'had a problem with my work or discipline or i
20 8
f 21 anything of that nature.
As a result, I notified my 3
lE uni n and I expected them to pursue this matter, that I 22 t
i felt that this was a reprisal from my speaking out against 23 I
i the Long Island Lighting Company and what was happening 24 rN l
( ~)
in Shoreham, and I was told that there was little that they j
25 i,
i i
i i
I i
w _.
p 16,417 Sim 11-15 1
could do, but the contractor realized that an error had been made in turning me down and that the next job that 2
3 they got would be mine.
And I said that that would not satisfy me, that 4
I felt that I wanted to go to work there and that they 5
had deprived me of the opportunity, and even though they 6
had given the job'away in the meantime to someone else I f
7 w uld be willing to go there just as.a worker to prove my 8
point and which I-did.
9 And recently the same contractor got another 10 job at the same site, and I imagine this is the job which I j,
was supposed to be called for, and I never was called.
12 There have been a series of other things that 13 have happened which it would be too long to go on, but 14 y u are sking the Lighting Company, you are considering 15 all wing them to put all of our health and safety in their 16
's hands in the event of a problem at Shoreham.
I don't see g
how you could possibly do that.
5 18 I
While I did work at this plant as a worker 19 el I talked to several of the LILCO personnel.
There is a 20 i
d lot of asbestos in several of these plants, and there was 21 k
r much of it flying around, and I asked what precautions were 22 taken to ensure the health and safety of the workers.
They 23 said they have people come in periodically and they take i
24 i
air samples to find out the quantity of asbestos, what levels I
f r
F
l f
16,418 Sim 11-16 are in the air, and the reports always come,back that everything is fine and well within the safe limits.
2 I
r
\\
/
So the LILCO workers confided in me that they 3
i suspected that the reports were not accurate.
So one day 4
i they got the machine which was used for sampling and they
}
stuffed it full of asbestos and they waited for the report 6
r I
to come back, and shortly thereafter the report did come back and it said that everything was. fine, everything was 8
within safe limits and no asbestos problem.
I These are the people that are dealing with our health and afety.
It seems that human life has little j
11 i
value in the corporate board room, and I don't see that 12 l
ever changing with LILCO, and I can't see how you could 13
,s l
t
(/
possibly consider allowing them to do what they would like 14 to do with this evacuation, this supposed evacuation that 15 they have.
16 End Sim
=
17 Eue fols 18 i
e j
19 i
a 20 i
i
.!l 21 I
5 22
)
23 24 j
l
'/
25 l
l t
4 h mv-mW --
,e_
,.w-
6,419 sysning i
Long before I had any children here, a man had a
(} scion 9
picture of his children.
We teach our children to work
- 12-1-Suer 3
within a system.
This is what we on Long Island have done 4
over the last 15 and 16 years.
People have been opposing 5
this plant.
We have worked within the system.
l i
6 We have won within the system.
Only a thief can i
7 steal our victory.
I trust that you gentlemen are not thieves 8
and that you will do the right thing.
9 Thank you very much.
10 (Applause.)
11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Ray Kluytenaar..
12 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 13 OF 14 RAY KLUYTENAAR 15 MR. KLUYTENAAR:
Good evening, gentlemen.
I am 16 here to represent myself.
And I will represent some other 17 people which I will speak about in a second.
18 I've been a resident of Smithtown for seven years And, in that time I have worked here as an independent 19 now.
20 artist.
I'm also a member of the Board of Directors of the 21 Smithtown Towship Arts Council.
And I think of myself as a 22 good citizen.
23 I can't officially speak for all artists, but
()
24 in my association with numerous artists I do feel that I can we n. porters, Inc.
25 say that a lot of them are concerned about Shoreham and even
16,420 2-2-SueW I more so basically opposed to the opening of Shoreham and do 2
not believe that we can safely evacuate the people of Long 3
Island in case of an accident.
4 One thing I would like to remind you, as xnany of 5
the people before me have, is that the evidence of the 6
people of Long Island in their belief that Shoreham cannot 7
be safely evacuated is overwhelming.
The Suffolk County 8
Legislature has determined that we cannot safely evacuate 9
Long Island.
Governor Mario Cuomo of the State of New York 10 has also found that you cannot safely evacuate Long Island.
11 Donald Regan, White House official, has been reported to have
/,
12 casually remarked that Long Island cannot be evacuated.
?
13 The former Federal Emergency Management Agency 14 Regional Director, subsequent to the issue of the FEMA report 15 on the attempt of LILCO's evacuation plan, also expressed 16 doubts about evacuation being safely conducted without the 17 assistance of state and county governments.
18 The courts have also ruled that LILCO did not have 19 the legal authority to implement an emergency plan.
Recent 20 "Newsday" polls have shown that 74 percent of Long Island 21 believes that Shoreham should not open.
Public candidates 22 for the First Congressional District on Long Island here are 23 opposed to Shoreham opening, (7_)
24 It is my belief that if the NRC were to oppose 7
Ace-Federat Reporters, Inc.
25 the LILCO plan, it would be a total rejection of the collective i
l l
16,421 2-3-SueW1 intelligence, the will of the people, the politicians, and 2
government officials of Long Island and the State of New 3
York.
The precedent of such a decision would raise the NRC 4
function to that of proportion in a democratic society.
5 What more do you need to hear from us that would 6
open your hearts and mind to what our desires are?
I would 7
also like to mention that we live in the general northeast 8
here.
We live just south of the State of Connecticut which 9
has I believe four operating nuclear power plants.
That is 10 just to the north of us.
There is one to the northwest in 11 Indian Point.
There are two plants, I'm sorry, up there.
There is a nuclear operating power plant south of 12 13 us in central New Jersey.
There is also an operating nuclear 14 power plant west of us in eastern Pennsylvania.
I 15 And one thing we should recognize is that the 16 results of what happened at Chernobyl certainly indicate 17 that all of these plants pose a peril to the residents of 18 Long Island.
We don't know which way the radiation will go 19 in the event of an accident at any of these plants.
20 And, God forbid it should happen at a combined 21 number of plants.
We were never consulted at this later date 22 whether or not we feel that these plants should have been 23 operated, because we will be adversely affected by them 24 potentially in case of an accident.
s Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I can only implore you to consider that our desire
16,422 2-4-SueW j is that we do not want that to happen in our own back yard.
2 We are surrounded by them.
We have a small nuclear plant at 3
the Brookhaven National Laboratory.
And, for myself it's 4
hard enough to contend with that in case an accident should 5
occur there.
6 We don't need more.
My feeling is that enough is 7
enough.
I can only ask you to please respect our will, our 8
intelligence and our desires.
9 Thank you.
(APP ause.)
l 10 11 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Nancy Faltermayer.
12 MS. FALTERMAYER:
Ye3.
n 13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Come up, please.
14 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 15 OF 16 l NANCY FALTERMAYER i
17 MS. FALTERMAYER:
I would like to give you some u3 figures from the Suffolk County Transportation Division con-19 cerning the number of commuters in Suffolk County.
This is 20 information from the last census, 1980.
21 With the growth on the Island in the recent years, 22 you can be assured that today's numbers are greater also.
23 In 1980, there were 523,577 workers over the age
,m
(
24 of 16 in Suffolk County.
Those commuting within Suffolk were v
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 363,780.
Those going to Nassau were 77,203.
And, to Greater
16,'423
("T-5-SueW l New York, 75,938.
Mode of travelling, 354,681 were. driving V
2 alone.
And 105,944 car pooled.
And 38,070 used mass meansit.
3 The remaining worked at home, walked, et cetera.
4 The Suffolk County Transportation Division estimates 5
.that during the morning rush hour, between 6 a.m. and 9 a.m.,
6 there are 440,983 people using our roadways.
Using that the popula' ion of the Town of Brookhaven 7
figure for comparison, t
8 where Shoreham is located, is currently 386,882.
9 The Building Department of Brookhaven has issued 10 approximately 3,000 building permits for single-family homes 11 in 1985, '86'and sees no slowing down in 1987.
12 In view of the 1980 figure of 440,983 commuters, O
13 Brookhaven's 386,882 and growing population, and perhaps 14 most important the results of-last week's "Newsday" survey 15 that stated that more than half of the population of Suffolk 16 dauld evacuate in an emergency, the idea of even attempting 17 evacuation is impossible.
18 I would also like to add that when the plant ~was 19 f irst considered, I was about 15.
And, nobody bothered to l
l 20 ask me what I wanted.
And, I'm 31 now, and I have two 21 children.
And, I don't want this plant to open.
22 Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
John Faltermayer.
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16,424
- SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
JOHN FALTERMAYER 4
MR. FALTERMAYER:
Good evening, gentlemen.
In 5
view of the accident at Chernobyl, everyone tells us that a 6
10-mile evacuation zone should be safe.
But, yet the 7
United States government told people of Kiev, 80 miles away, 8
to evacuate.
So, there must be some danger past the 10-mile 9
limit.
10 Now, I commute to work everyday.
I live in Coram, 11 work in Manhasset, a distance of about 45 miles.
And, many 12 times it takes me two hours to get to or from work.
\\
l 13 I don't know what the percentage of cars are on 14 Long Island or on the roadways at that time, but nothing 15 moves.
In the event of an accident at Shoreham, I'm very sure 16 that the wind would be moving faster than anybody else would 17 move.
18 I also have a friend who knows a school bus driver 19 who has said that in the event of an accident, they would not 20 be getting in any bus to pick up any children at any school, 21 that they were concerned for their own safety and their family 22 which again would add to confusion.
23 Right now, my car is at home and sitting in the
,o(. j 24 driveway.
It's got an eighth of a tenth of gas, as I'm sure Ace-Federet Reporters, Inc.
25 many cars on Long Island do.
Now, if there was an accident, L
16,425
- SueW I with all the traffic on the road we would need a lot of gas.
2 I can imagine the lines at the gas station.
When we had the 3
gas shortage, people had fist fights.
People were pulling 4
guns on other people.
And that wasn't even a health threaten-S ing situation.
6 I could imagine the chaos and the violence that l
7 would probably be around.
Also, during the FEMA exercise 8
everybody sat at their desk saying everything went fine.
9 Communications were fine.
10 I am a switching equipment technician for the 11 New York Telephone.
And, on a normal Monday the offices are 12 backed up and can barely handle the amount of calls.
If there n
13 is a snow storm the offices are overloaded.
And, in the event 14 of an accident everyone would pick up their phone and nobody 15 will be calling anybody, because the telephone systems will 16 be so overloaded.
And, so nobody is going to be able to make 17 calls to contact their family or anything.
18 It's just going to be just total mass confusion.
19 And I, for one, if I was to evacuate I know where I want to 20 get to.
If some LILCO worker directed me to go some other 21 way than where I wanted to go, I'm not going to listen to him.
22 I'm just going to go the way I want to go.
And, I'm sure 23 everybody else would do the same thing.
()
24 Thank you.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 (Applause.)
16,426 12-8-SueW 1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Pete Quinn.
2 (No response.)
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Paul Lozowsky.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATFMENT 5
OF 6
PAUL LOZOWSKY 7
MR. LOZOWSKY:
Good evening.
How do you do?
8 I live in Patchogue at 94, Route 112.
And I'm representing 9
myself and many people I do know about the fact that the road 10 system on the Island is bad.
11 I mean, we were just trying to get this point to 12 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
And, you can't get any-tK
13 where anywhere.
14 I worked as a messenger for a number of years.
I 15 owned a fish store about 10 miles from the nuclear plant at 16 Shoreham.
And, sometimes you go somewhere you get an over-17 turned truck, you get an accident, you are stopped dead.
You 18 can't get anywhere for a long time.
19 If there is an accident at Shoreham, you are 20 going to have abandoned cars, cars running out of gas.
You 21 are not going to get anywhere.
22 We are in a bottleneck; we are on an Island.
You 23 can't get on or off on a ferry.
And I just have a few other
['
24 points to make besides that.
AceMedwal Reportus, Inc.
25 Incidently, I'm 34 years old and I was born on i
16,427
-f"7-9-SueW 1 Long Island, and I would like'to stay.
And, I would like to d
2 stay alive, too.
3 But, another thing is it's bad having a nuclear 4
power plant period.
But, LILCO is an. incompetent utility.
I 5
don't think there is any utility as bad as LILCO, not only bad 6
but it's arrogant.
Just an example, they build a mine for 7
It gets' flooded, okay.
After Hurricane Gloria, 8
They don't have enough transmission systems.
You talk to 9
any worker that was out-of-state, you ask him how the system 10 was, the system was archaic.
That's_the kind of system.
11 We have.a utility near bankruptcy that's throwing 12 all their money into completing Shoreham.
And, the line 13 system according to the Power Authority in the State of 14 New York is bad, a quote from Larry. Frac who is one of their 15 spokesman for the Power Authority, State of New York.
16 Another thing.
Politicians are not against 17 Shoreham because so much of the vote, but you cannot evacuate 18 Shoreham.
If you just support Shoreham, you know, people 19 who live on Long Island know you can't go anywhere.
20 So, that's another point.
Gloria.
After Hurricane
~
21 Gloria, you talk to Freeport which has a public power system, 22 you look around you.
They have underground systems in much 23 of the area, and they have a storm system.
After Hurricane 24 Gloria, the trees were kept up by the power lines.
Acofederet Reportees, Inc.
25 Long Island Lighting System now, especially in the
16~,428 (d
* 10-SueW 1 eastern end, the Hampton area, is lousy.
They have power 2
shortages regularly, and LILCO is now taking care of it, 3
if they have enough money to do the job, that is.
4 Another point, when Leo Catticacino took over in 5
1984, he had the arrogance to impose what he calls a code of 6
silence.
What business has the right, or an owner, to. impose 7
a code of silence on their customers?
They have a right to 8
let them know what is going on.
9 So, he comes in and takes over and says I have nc 10 right, or no obligation, to let the public know how our 11 company is being run.
And, that is what we call arrogance, 12 that they have no ability to operate a nuclear plant.
13 The diesel, probably most people know about.
14 One more point.
I'm sure you read "Newsday."
This garbage 15 in Washingtcn.
What I would like to see is Long Island people, 16 both the readers and people from Long Island, put ads in the 17 newspaper, doing a boycott, not to buy, purchases from people la who advertise in the newspaper and not having people buy or 19 advertise and cancel their subscription, because it's a lot --
20 you know, I won't say the word.
But, as I said they are 21 representing the interests of Wall Street, interests of the 22 Long Island Association, and also the interesta of the banks 23 who they are obviously held captive of.
24 So, while we are spending our money putting ads in Ace Federts Reporters, Inc.
25 the newspaper, buying their products, they are hounding the
16,429 qg-ll-SueWl public to back the politicians who feel they need votes to 2
keep their jobs.
All they need is a loan from the banks.
3 And, basically Long Island is pretty pissed.
And 4
we are sick of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission driving this 5
mismanaged company down the people's throats.
6 And, so we ask:
Keep it closed and keep Long Islanc 7
alive.
Thank you very much.
8 (Applause.)
9 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Bruce Kagan.
10 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 11 OF 12 BRUCE KAGAN f-(w/
13 MR. KAGAN:
Good evening, gentlemen.
I have a few 14 questions to ask you.
Do any of you live on Long Island?
15 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We are here to listen to the 16 populace of Long Island.
And, it is not part of this hearing 17 session to engage in a dialogue.
18 MR. KAGAN:
I see.
So, in other words, we are to 19 speak at you, so to speak.
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
That is correct.
21 MR. KAGAN:
Okay.
Then, I will have to speak at 22 you.
It is against my --
23 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Well, you can speak to us as
\\/
24 well as to counsel for the parties, some of whom are present.
Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 And you may raise issues that the Board or the parties may
16,430 SueWj wish to pursue.
We are here to listen to you.
2 MR. KAGAN:
I just have one question.
Is there 3
a female on the NRC Board?
Or, is this the NRC Board?
4 Are you not able to answer that either?
5 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Well, let me just say this.
6 There is a panel, and people from the panel are picked to serve on the Board in your particular case.
On the panel, 7
we do have a female judge, yes.
8 MR. KAGAN:
Okay.
I'm a teacher.
And if there 9
10 is anybody from LILCO here, I would like to say that one 11 of the best courses that I've ever taken was given by 12 LILCO.
So, in other words it is within their power to 13 really sponsor some quality programs if they want to.
So, ja I will say that much for them.
15 cndd 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 q's_/
24 Ace-Feder:1 Reporters, Inc.
25
16,431 13-1-gjw
-(Evaning Sess:, on)
(~T' 1
At any rate, it should be known that the views
\\_)
2 stated here are my own, and not those of other teachers 3
in the Miller Place schols.- However, they may share some 4
of my feelings on certain points.
My2 feelings are as follows:
5 If mankind is to ascend on the evolutionary scale,
+
6 he must have a certain moral predication about him.
Ancient 7
societies, such as Egypt and China, had various technologies, 8
but failed in the area of moral predication, and were doomed 9
to crumble.
10 I feel likewise that the Western society tends not i
11 to have this moral predication.
We in the USA are a high 12 te ch, fast food, disposable society.
Hell bent on progress, 7s 13 but lacking in the direction this progress will take us.
14 I remain an educator because I am trying to 15 instill knowledge with a moral predication.
I do this by 16 embellishing the mandated state curriculum with a sensitivity 17 and understanding ouf our planet earth, and our relative i
18 position in the universe,
i 19 It is because of this moral predication that I am he re 20 before you, not asking you, but beseeching you to stop the 21 opening of the Shoreham reactor.
22 Ten years ago the U. S. Government under the 23 advisement of the scientific community, to go nuclear to supply j
24 our energy needs.
At that time all intentions were good and i Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 noble.
13-2-gjw 16,432
([ }-
It turns out that now we see.this movement was misdirected.
1 2
The waste alone is a poison that we are unable to safely 3
deal with.
Of courac, the horrific science fiction drama 4
of a meltdown nearly became a fact at Three Mile Island and 5
It is beyond what I can imagine that the NRC 6
could even consider licensing a new reactor at Shoreham.
We 7
have the technology, but we lack the moral predication.
8 The workers on the plant lacked moral predication 9
in its slipshod construction.
I lived in Ridge, a nearby 10 community, and used to hear workers buying cases of beer to 11 drink while on the job.
Perhaps not on the site, but to 12 be consumed while they were working.
f-(.3.!
13 As to the direction of the nation's power industry 14 the course is clear.
It will take another ten years to 15 develop the technology in solar and geothermal to handle our f
16 needs, but it could be done.
17 Japan has developed inexpensive photovotaid cells.
18 It seems they aren't appearing on the market.
Which oil 19 company bought the plans up?
Probably the same one that 20 bought up the hundred mile per gallon engine.
Moral 21 predication?
As to the evacuation plan, this is a true 22 paper fantasy.
Live here and find out.
The buck stops here.
23 You and I must supply the moral predication and direction of our (O
\\~'
24 nation and citizens.
Acofederal Reporters, Inc.
25 perhaps Mr. Reagan would like me to be Mr. Rightous
13-3-gjw 16,433
(~' ;
I and outstanding to protect his children in school in case of v
2 a disaster.
3 He expects the citizenry to buy American when 4
superior and less expensive foreign porducts flood this country 5
and President Reagan refuses to notably limit them.
We must 6
supply the moral predication.
You and I.
7 I as a teacher, if a disaster does occur, will not 8
stay to take care of your children.
I am an athlete.
A long 9
distance runner and hiker, and I will be gone.
I will not 10 stay to take care of the little kids.
My moral predication 11 stops in front of the NRC Board right here tonight.
I ask 12 you let's together supply this direction, because if goes on e-.
I%.)
13 line and a disaster happens, don't expect me to take care 14 of your kids.
I present my own views.
15 (Applause.);
16 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Has Susan Levy come back in?
17 MS. LEVY:
Yes.
18 19 20 21 22 l
l 23
(~h
's )
24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 l
.=_
13-4-gjw 16,434 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
SUSAN LEVY 4
MS. LEVY:
My name is Susan Levy.
I am a resident' 5
of Bayport, and I work in Pilgrim Psychiatric Hospital.
I 6
work with the blind, and I work with the deaf.
7 Most of us know that there is not a lot of ways to 8
get off of this Island, but even if everybody with cars could 9
magically fly off the Island, what happens to the people 10 that are lef t?
What happens to the mental patients.
What 11 happens.to the old people?
What happens to the sick people 12 that have no cars?
Where does LILCO pick them up?
Where do 7sd 13 you take them?
There is no where for them to go, there is 14 no way for them to get there.
15 We -- middle class people can make it.
How do they 16 make it?
What happens to them?
Who takes moral responsi-I 17 bility to get these people of f.
Do you say, well, 'too bad.
18 I don't have a lot of notes.
I just have a lot of feelings 19 for the people I work with, and I think somebody ought to 20 speak for them, because there is a lot of them.
21 That is all.
22 (Applause.)
l l
23 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Did Catherine Simons speak 24 earlier today?
Ace +ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 AUDIENCE:
I believe so.
[
13-5-gjw
/~T 1
JUDGE' MARGULIES:
Dave Crow?
V 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
OF 4
DAVE CROW 5
MR. CROW:
Good evening.
This is kind of an 6
improvization for me.
I didn't think I would be able to 7
make_it down here.
From listening to the people that have 8
spoken before me, and talking to my friends and various 9
people who live in the community where I am located, in 10 King's Park, it seems to me that one of the main concerns 11 is not just the evacuation, but it is the general safety 12 of nuclear power.
s
\\
l 13 I don't know if that is an issue here.-
I think 14 we are supposed to be talking about the evacuation plan.
But-l 15 if we are just going to talk about the evacuation plan, I l
16 think that as kind of generally intelligent people, you kind l
17 of have to look at Long Island the way the people have been i
I l
18 saying.
Being like a peninsula, and having only one way out 1
19 of the city.
20 There is really not much of a chance of evacuating-21 in any kind of an accident as far as I can see.
Incidentally, 22 I meant to preface my statement by saying I originally 23 applied for a job with LILCO about two years ago, and I never 24 got a job.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, I happened to get Am-FWwd Reorters lm.
25 a very good job with Grumman, so I am kind of happy there.
16,436 13-6-gjw-s 1
I am not totally against LILCO, that is not why
(
1
'U 2
I am here, but I don't think the Shoreham power plant evacuation 3
plan can realistically accepted.
4 I think you have to be honest and say putting all 5
of LILCO's problems aside, can Shoreham work?
Can the 6
evacuation plan work?
And I think all the evidence you have 7
seen in the papers, and you gentlemen probably know a lot more 8
than I do, tends to show that you really can't evacuate Long 9
Island.
10 I think the woman who spoke before me brought up a 11 very good point.
I never really thought of the people who 12 don't have cars, will we be able to get off the Island, and O
13 I don't know whose right it is to pick and choose and say, 14 well, ninety percent, or maybe eighty percent of the people 15 will get out, and twenty percent won't.
I wouldn't want to
'16 make those kind of decisions.
17 A point I did want to bring out, that I scribbled 18 down in haste,. I knew a few people, Rmore than one person 19 that worked as a steamfitter at Shoreham during canstruction 20 of the power plant in 1978 through 1981, and.to quote him 21 or paraphrase him, and I don't have the exact quote, but 22 something to the effect he wouldn't ba caught dead within a 23 hundred miles of that power plant if it ever went on line, and I ()
24 he saw what was happening as far as the jobs that were being
! Aco-FeA.sl Reporters, Inc.
I 25 done,- and he said he couldn' t believe the way things were 1
13-7-JoeWal 16,437 1
operated, the lack of supervision, and the absolute lousy way gm.
\\-)
2 the things -- the way things were put together.
This is.a 3
nuclear power plant.
This isn't a toy truck or something.
4 This is something dead serious.
5 I Never thought about it before.
Even if you look 6
at LILCO as a company, and granted they are human like every-7 body else is, who can make mistakes, I don't know that a 8
nuclear power plant is one where you can say, well, if they 9
make a mistake they -- it is just human error.
Humans do 10 make mistakes, but I think with a power plant you have to be 11 a little more concered than that.
12 And as far as I am concerned, one possibility of O
13 human error, that is always going to exist, but it has to be 14 cut down to a bare minimum.
I think if you look at LILCO's 15 record, unfortunately, they make an awful lot of mistakes in 16 a lot of areas.
Hurricane Gloria.
An oil spill about a year 17 ago with one of their big tanks in Hempstead, or somewhere on l
18 the south shore, where a leaky valve, or a valve didn't close, 19 and they ended up flooding the gates with oil, et cetera, 20 et cetera.
There have been a lot of problems with LILCO 21 generally.
I don't know how the public could be expected 22 to trust them in the operation of a nuclear power plant, and 23 alsc to put forth an evacuation where it has never been tested
()
24 except on paper, which really doesn't mean anything.
I think
~
Aco-Federst Reporters. Inc.
25 we all kind of admit that fact.
13-7-gjw 3
1 It has never been tested, and probably never will i.
2 be.
Hopefully,. it will never be used.
3 I think the general consenses again is that part e
4 of th'e problem -- as I saw the two gentlemen who brought in th 5
dog Sham, hearings for a sham drill, again speaking to people, 6
and I talked to a lot of people at work and asked them why i
l 7
they weren' t going to come down if they had the chance, and I
8 they said it is not going to do any good.
They said the power 9
plant is going to open one way or another.
They will push it j
I
~
10 down' our throats.
The hearing doesn't mean anything.
It i
i j
11 never has meant anything, and unfortunately that is the I
l l
12 opinion of most of my friends.
And I kind of feel that way 13 inside also.
I am will to be donuts to dollars as the old 14 saying goes, that Shoreham is going to open, no matter what f
15 the people on Long Island want, or what the legislature i
16 wants.
I have the feeling the plant is going to open
[
17 regardless.
That is the way things seem to work.
l 18 I hope that is not the way they work, and I hope 19 you folks and the NRC does what you have to do to see that l
20 it doesn't open.
i
}
21 Thank you.
t 22 (Applause.)
23 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Chris George?
()
24 Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 i
l i
L- -.
16,439 I,
13-8-gjw i
-s 1
LIMITED APPEAFANCE STATEMENT b
i 2
OF 3
CHRIS GEORGE 4
MR. GEORGE:
Good evening.
My name is Chris George, i
5 and I am from Mt. Saini.
I would like to relate to you a 6
story from around the 10th century in India.
i 5
7 There were three. scholars who had just graduated
~
i 8
from your techAical school, and were very happy about the 9
knowledge which they had gained at this school, and they l
l 10 were probably from the town where they had done their i
11 studying and traveling to another town to look for work, and
,I
\\
i 12 along with them they sort of reluctantly allowed their cousin
(
13 to come along who wasn ' t so well educated.
I i
u Along the way, when they were travelling to the 14 4
15 town they happensd to see a lion from the road, which was r
j 16 dead.
And they saw the lion and they conferred with one l
17 another and they said, gee, you know, if we can put our 18 knowledge together I bet we can bring this lion back to life, i
19 and so one of them said:
Gee, I have the skills to put the i
i i
20 bones together, and antoher the skin, and so on, and so they
)
i 21 set to work.
1 After a little while the cousin said:
Say, do you 22
)
23 fellows know what you are doing?
And they said:
Yes, yes.
- ()
24 We are great scholars.
We are great scientists.
' Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 He said:
Well, j us t a minute.
Let me go and climb i
13-9-gjws 16,440 1
a tree while you are doing this.
2 So, he went and climbed a tree and the technicians 3
put the finishing touches on the lion.
The lion came to life 4
and, of course, ate the three technicians.
And the stupid i
5 cousin who was not a technologist was up in the tree safely.
6 Now, I bring this up because regardless of the 7
analogy of the lion and Shoreham, I am going to look around 8
to see if there is a tree to climb, and to me that is what i
9 this issue is about.
Is there a tree to climb, in case there 10 is something which' happens at Shoreham?
Clearly we can't 11 ignore what happened at Chernobyl, and it is a fierce lion 12 that is being loosed, and we need a strong tree that is easy n
j 13 to climb if we are going to be~able to get away safely, i
14 And I think from nearly anyone who knows the area, 15 who knows the conditions, it is clearly impossible to find 16 a safe way to evacuate the area, and this is not just a feelin g 17 of people here but it is backed by the fact that you simply 18 can't get insurance for damage that can be done and other 19 things.
20 Just in closing I would like to say that I wish that 21 I felt less simple about this hearing, but as the gentleman 22 before me has said, I feel that, unfortunately, that you 23 gentlemen represent the nuclear industry, and I wish I felt
()
24 that you represented our safety, and I am afraid I don't, Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 and I wish that I.:could say something that would change your 4
l
16,441 10-gjw I
minds and would lead you.to consider our safety over the 2
bank balance of LILCO and their stockholders.
3 Thank you.
4 (Applause.)
5 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Way Shen?
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 l
14 15 16 I
17 18 19 20
-21 22 23 24 Aso Federal Reporters, Inc.
25,
13-ll-gjw 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT c~s 2
OF 3
WAY SHEN 4
MS. SHEN:
Good evening.
I am Way Shen, I live in 5
Mt. Sinai with my husband and two children.
6 I was very heartened to hear earlier in the evening, 7
Mr. Margulies, when you responded to one of the speakers and 8
said that your job tonight, and I assume for the next two 9
days, is to listen to Long Islanders.
10 My feelings and the feelings of many Long Islanders, 11 if not most Long Islanders, are very similar to what the two 12 previous speakers have described.
Most people feel that 13 these hearings are a sham, and I would like to believe that 14 the three of you are here tonight and this week not to make i
15 a sham of democracy, but to actually show us that it is alive 1
16 and well, and that you are open minded and you have come here 17 to hear from those of us who ought to know best, and who do 18 know best, whether evacuation is feasible.
19 To that end, I think I can be -- or how I can be 20 of most help to you is to give you some idea of what the 21 traffic conditions are like for us.
I live on Mt. Sinai 1
22 Avenue, which is bounded on the north by 25-A, and since none
}
23 of you is a resident of Long Island, I want to tell you that l
(~)T 24 25-A is a two lane road.
It is heavily trafficked.
q, j Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 The other day when I was trying to cross it to go 1
i k
13-12-gjw 16,443 1
west on it, I clocked how long I had to wait at the inter-('N
(_)
2 section in order to get across and head west.
And it took 3
me eight minutes.
4 This is not an exception.
This.is the rule.
I 5
was not crossing the road during heavily traffic peak hours.
6 This was at eleven a.m.
in the morning.
7 On the south, we are bounded by Canal 1 Road, which 8
is another heavily trafficked road.
It is two lanes.
There 9
are no shoulders.
If there were an accident, there is no 10 way in which people could bypass the accident and head on 11 their way west.
12 We live on that road.
We live on Mt. Siani, and O
13 when I think about evacuation I don't see any way that we 14 can get out of our neighborhood safely or easily, and I think 15 if you lived in my house on my street and were one of my 16 neighbors, you would feel the same way.
17 Just today I read in the paper than an NRC Board 18 had overturned a lower panel opinion that the evacuation was 19 in fact not feasible.
The rationale the NRC Board gave 20 for their overturning the earlier ruling was that they did 21 not want to delve into human psychology, because that was 22 not useful or beneficial for the formulation of evacuation 23 plans.
tO
\\_)
24 Okay, I don't know what you call it, but I think Am-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 you are delving into Long Islanders psychology when you make
16,444 13-13-gjw rx 1
assumptions and you accept LILCO's assumptions that we are U
2 going to do exactly what we are told, we are not going to 3
panic, we are going to be basictsheep who will do the bidding 4
of a utility that we don' t even trust.
5 Sixty-two percent of the people, as many other 6
speakers have already mentioned, sixty-two percent of the 7
people in the poll that was taken by Newsday have said that 8
they will evacuate regardless of where they live; whether 9
they are three miles from the plant, nineteen, or twenty, 10 or whatever.
11 In fact, in Nassau County, sixty-three parcent 12 said they would leave.
They are not going to wait for LILCO O
.13 to tell them whether it is safe or not.
They are not going 14 to believe LILCO if LILCO says it is okay, you are in a safe 15 zone.
16 As we have seen from Chernobyl, there is no safe 17 zone, and to even think of a ten mile evacuation zone is 18 absolute absurdity.
Sixty-two percent of the people, I think, 19 are much more right about their psychology, because they 20 are talking about what they know they will do.
They are much 21 more right than LILCO, who is only guessing at what people 22 will do, and the kinds of things they are putting forth 23 obviously serves their own interest in terms of recouping D)
\\_
24 what they have spent on the plant.
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I would like to feel that all of us here today -
13 gjw 16,445 I
who have spoken against the plant will make an impression on 2
you, and that you will go back and think this through and l
3 decide that yeah, it is not possible to evacuate.
4 I hope you will do that, so that in fact we can all j
5 feel on Long Island these hearings are not a sham, that the 6
NRC is not just a handmaiden of the nuclear industry.
7 Thank you.
(APP ause.)
l 8
End 13 9
10 11 i
12 O~
13 14 15 l
16 t
1 i
17 18 19 l
20 21 22 t
23
()
24 Wel Reporters. Inc. I 25 I
r I
16,446 Sim 14-1 1
JUDGE MARGULIES: ' Henry McKenna.
/'"3 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT V
1 3
OF 4
HENRY McKENNA 5
MR. McKENNA:
My name is Henry McKenna, and 6
I am from 16 Junard Boulevard, Port Jeff Station.
7 I would like to relate a short story to you.
8 About 12 years ago when a neighbor moved into my neighbor-9 hood my. wife and I went down to welcome them to the 10 neighborhood.
11 After speaking to them for a very short time,.
12 he informed us that he was a consulting engineer.
I don't 13 remember the firm he worked for, but he was a consulting 14 engineering to work'for the ground breaking part of LILCO
'15 working with the new Shoreham plant.
16 He confided in me that he was pleasantly k
17 amazed with the overtime that he was able to obtain,'and 2
I 18 the reason he was able to obtain this overtime was because s
j-19 the LILCO engineers-wanted to maintain stewardness for i
overseeing any Consulting engineers.
So they refused to l
20 d
accept any advice the consulting engineers gave them, and 21 5:
they said we will do it our way.
22 He loved this because when they constantly-23 made mistake he made money by coming in and having to correct.
24 O
their~ mistakes.
Now this was years and years before I even
. \\m,/ -
25
16,447 Sim 14-2 1
knew what a nuclear power plant was going to consist of.
2 That is really all I have to say.
I just T)
Q 3
wanted to put my two cents in with the rest of the people 4
here.
5 But let me.say this about how I feel about this 6
whole type of operation.
I feel that you have a tremendous l
1 7
advantage over us because being in sales I learned a long 8
time ago that he who speaks first loses.
You have the 9
advantage of sitting back and letting us try to sound 10 fairly intelligent.
We are not used to it.
We are not used l
ti to sitting here in front of.other people and speaking.
l 12 I resent this very much, and I resented it last l
13 time I came to these hearings, but I know that this is the l
. (3, V
34
.way it is set up and this is what we have to do.
I.think 15 I applaud all the people who have come before me and will l
16 come after me for coming here at all because it'is a risk that we all take when we come up here of making a fool of i
37 i
ourselves..
18 j
gg I would like to finalize this short speech of I
J l
l mine by telling you that you know from everything you have-20 a
1 3
seen over the years that Shoreham is wrong.
You know it 21 i:
in y ur heart.
Whether you can say it or not, I don't know.
22 And I would like to ask you a rhetorical questior..
23 In y ur whole life have you ever been sorry for doing the 24 k'- /
right thing?
25
16,448
'Sim~:14-3 rN.
2 (Applau se. )
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:. Alma Jean Mastrangelo.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT.
5 OF 6
ALMA JEAN MASTRANGELO 7
MS. MASTRANGELO:
Good evening.
8 I am Alma Jean Mastrangelo, and I am Associate 9
Director for Suffolk District Parents and Teachers 10 Association.
We are a part of the State and national 11 organization.
In Suffolk alone we have 53,000 members.
12
. We are concerned with the children's education, 13 welfare and safety.
They are our future.
Therefore, due 14 to the concern of the children's safety by the members.cf 15 the Parents and Teachers Association throughout Suffolk 16 County the Suffolk County Parents and Teachers Association j
i7 has formed a steering committee and are studying the effects e
18 of the evacuation plan for the safety and the feasibility
)
39 for our children here on Long Island should there be a nuclear accident.
20 d
Upon the completion of this committee and the 21 study, the Suffolk District Parents and Teachers Association 22 will then take a position on the evacuation plan.
23 Thank you.
24 O\\
(APP ause. )
l
- (_,,/
25
s 16,449 Sim 14-4 1
JUDGE MARGULIES: LLora'Kuykendall.
("wg 2
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
%)
OF 3
4' LORA KUYKENDALL 5-MS. KUYKENDALL:
Hi.
I live in Holbrook.
I 6
speak for myself and my husband.
I have some questions for you regarding LILCO's 7
8 emergency response plans, questions.that shuld be answered before the' conclusion of the licensing process.
g How can you assure us that a privately cwned 10 utility's labor force, one that is unionized as well,-can jj assume the same fiduciary responsibility for life and 12 property as the public servants of the State and the County-13
-pr whose sworn duties are written into law?
34 What document gives this labor force the 15 responsibility for public welfare?
16 What guarantees amicable, if not even a working j
37 2
relationship, with a labor union that has shown a past; 18 s
history of bitter strike disputes?
g jg a
ne a uple of years ago there was a strike f
20 d
so bitter than LILCO employees were suspected of vandalizing 21 l-2 the company's own property.
Who at the picketing sites 22 didn't feel the venom.
This is not to say that this could 23 happen again, but it is possible, and what plan takes into g
D>
account the capricious nature of union management?
(_-
,g
1
-16,450
- Sim 14-5 1
-And who says that they will. answer the bell?
o
'r 3 2
-They themselves must suspect that panicked citizens will
,.Q 3
acknowledged-nothing less than a badge and a gun.
4 If members'of LERO have given any thought to 5
this at all, they must realize that they will have to deal 6
not only with mass. confusion and hysteria, but with the 7
~ natural tendency of some of their evacuees to blame the 8
utility and use its representatives as targets of g
reprisal and certainly not as agents of the law.
10 Given all this and the deadly nature of this 11 possible emergency, how could.you realistically expect a 12 LILCO worker to go into a life endangering situation with-13 out the backing of written law.
C')
14 As far as we know, LILCO has handed its 15 LERO volunteers a few hundred dollars of cooperation money 16 and has said you willLbe there, won't you?
17 Common sense dictates'that nothing less than 18 the force of law backing a public servant is workable, and I
d 19
.the LILCO emergency plan is a formula for sheer disaster f
unmitigated proportions.
20 d
The final question.
It is not whether LILCO 21 s
E m nagement would advance such a ludicrous plan, their 22 self interest is clear.
The. question is not whether LILCO 1
23 mP oyees would follow such a plan.
Common sense says no.
l 24 The question is not even if the majority of the public could 25
16,451 Sim 14-6 1
be persuaded to~believe such a plan is workable.
They 2
don't.
')
.The real'uestion is how'can you justify giving
~
3 q
4 this imbecility your approval?
5 (Applause.)
6 Thank you.
That is all I have to say.
7 (Applause.)-
8' JUDGE MARGULIES:
Pat Pepe.
9 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 10 OF 33 PAT PEPE 1
l 12 MR. PEPE:
Hi.
I am Pat Pepe.
I. live in I
13 S und Beach which is about seven miles away from Shoreham.
When I first moved to.the area about 12 years 34 ag I didn't realize Shoreham was there.
The thing that 15 w rk-me up was Three Mile Island when they had a near 16 j
97 meltdown, or if it was a melt down, I don't know.
But that 2
18 turned me against the Shoreham nuclear plant and any other nuclear plant.
Every.since then I have been fighting it.
jg a
Sin e then we have just had the recent accident 20 i
in Chernoybl, and I have read a lot of things on Chernoybl 21 Ir and Three Mile Island.
They tell me that at Chernobyl that 22 the experts made mistakes.
l 23 Well, we have experts here, too,. and they will O(,) -
make mistakes, too.
All human beings will make mistakes.
16,452 Sim-14-7 1
Unfortunately, it will be at the cost of the people, the
,/"'g -
2 people at-I would say a hundred mile distance or radius v
3 around the Shoreham nuclear plant or any other nuclear
/
4 plant 5
Evacuation'from the island is almost completely 6
ridiculous.
To think that you will ever get out'in.any 7
kind of time is ridiculous.
8 I was at a school board meeting and we adopted i
~
l 9
a plan to oppose Shoreham because it wasn't feasible to j
l to get the. children out of the area in any kind of time if.
11 there was an accident.
12 I~think maybe we should turn our power - _ turn 13 our strength away from_ nuclear and go to solar and hydro-O O
14 power which is enormously safer.
Why are we entrenched in 15 nuclear?
Who says we have to stay in nuclear?
Let's 16 get the hell out of nuclear.
h 17 (APP ause.)
l 2-l 18 Let's go some place else. You are going to get-3 j
19 the money for it.
We are going to get the money for hydro-a 20 p wer.
I w uld be willing to pay for it and other people t
3 are willing to pay for it.
You are going to get the money 21
_.i 22 any way.
Let's just switch it.
There is no way we are E
g ing to stay with nuclear.
23 Japan had two nuclear bombs in radiation.
24
(
This is. going to be the same thing when an accident 25
16,453 Sim 14-8
.happens over h'ere.
The radiation is going-to spread.
There are going to be-mutations of, birth, the birth rate we are O
talking about.
We are talking about people.
What value
~
3 is dollars.ard cents if you don't have health?
What value 4
is it? /It is notlvaIue.
5 (Applause.)
So I.. don't know what' you are trying to drive at.
I think the Nuclear Regulatory Commission should be changed to another commission, and energy commission, yes, g
but not nuclear.
You could change.
Everybody could change.
I change jobs and you could change jobs.
We nre not looking to get rid of you, and the same thin ~g wit h LILCO.
Why can't they convert that LILCO shoreham plant to another 13 V
kind of source of energy.
I don'c care if it costs money.
14 We'll pay the money.
We will have to pay the nuclear, too.
The people are not really complaining about the money as I
a lot of people might have that misdemeanor to complain 17 e
about the money.
18
-![
They complain about safety.
If an accident
- l 19 l
happens there your property value will be nothing.
Who 20 g
f wants to live in a radiated area.
Your house will 21 1
i be nothing.
Who wants to live in a radiated house.
So 22 what are we talking about money, saving money and having 23 electricity.
We have enough' electricity.
We will do 24 without.
I'll be the first one to do without.
I mean 25
16,454 Sim 14-9 let's convert.
Let's go a different way and let's get 3
2 rid of nuclear.
Let's get rid of_this hazard.
p;
%/
3 Everybody told you.about evacuating the island.
4 I know, I'have traveled to.Plainview for many years and 5
I've seen it.take me 20 minutes to go.two miles, from one 6
exit to the-next'because of something.; happening.
7 If anything ever happened over there it would 8
not be no 20 minutes.
It would bne three hours to go 9
no place.
So forget about evacuation.
You are never going 10 to evacuate.
There would be contamination of everything, 11 water ~ supplies, food-supplies, the ground.
You wouldn't 12 be able. to live ir. the houses.
They are talking about 13 radon now coming from the earth in north New Jersey and O
14 people ~have to get out.of the house.
They can't live there 15 no more.
16 So what are you promising us?
You are promising aj g
us a contaminated island to us is what you are promising a
j 18 us, and I am saying let's get rid of all nuclear plants.
O j
19 I don't want Shoreham either, but there is no problem in converting.
Let's convert.
We would be more than willing-20 2
d to convert to another source of energy, a safe source.
21 I
This is so potently destructive, tnis radiation, 22 that it goes beyond words, and I think this is the main 23 24 part of the issue.
This is so potently destructive that 25 we would not have it any more.
We should just convert
y 16,455 Sim 14-10 1
to something else, and that is my main point.
2
(}
And I also want to say that the people have the 3
power.
This democracy, you know, 1776 when you had the 4
Constitution, was formed by the people, for the people's 5
will, and the people's will is1not to have Shoreham.
I 6
don't care who says to have it.
The people say no.
7 (Applause.)
8 Now the people will win.
We will win one way 9
or the other.
We will win and we will not give up.
So 10 don't try to push this on us because even if it is opened, 11 which I am going to fight tooth and nail that it won't be, 12 there is going to be a problem here because then people 13 js will not pay their bills and then LILCO will go down the v
14 tube anyway.
15 (Applause.)
16 We are not supporting no nuclear.
If Shoreham 17 j
ever goes on line nobody will ever pay their bills to h
18 LILCO and let them see what they will do about it.
O d
19 PROM THE FLOOR:
Maybe we should do that right a
N 20 now.
g d
21 MR. PEPE:
Yes, maybe we should do that right g::
22 now, too, because we are going to show the power of the 23 people.
The people do not want it and they do not have to 24 have it.
We are willing to convert it and pay the bills, b
\\~ ~ '
25 but don't tell us we are going to have to have it because
16,456 Sim 14-11 1
we are not going to have to have it.
c'~m.
2 That's all.
]
3
'Applau se. )
4 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Steven Kvit.
5 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 6
OF.
7 STEVEN KVIT 8
.MR.
KVIT:
Good evening, gentlemen of the NRC.
9 My name is Steven Kvit.
I am one of the 10 founding members of the Long Island Solar Energy Association 11 which has spoken before Governor's Cuomo's Commission on 12 the West Valley Radioactive Repository and the Governor's Shoreham Commission.
13 t
14 This is a statement to the NRC Licensing Board.
This statement will serve to officially voice my 15 PPosition in the strongest possible terms in response 16 to the Reagan Administration and the Nuclear Regulatory h
17 2
Commission's actions in the LILCO Shoreham licensing 18 j
ig procedures.
I believe the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 20 d
n t acted in the interests of the people, especially a 21 i
~
documented majority, but has acted and continues to act in 22 the interest of a financially ailing corporation, LILCO, 23 nd a financially ailing industry, the nuclear power-24
(/
electric generation industry.
(,
25
16,457 Sim 14-12 1 Putting corporate interests above the economic, 2
enviromental and health and safety interests of the people V
3 is a clear violation of the people's constitutional 4
rights.
5 Government agencies musc act in the interests f the people and properly serving the public. interest in 6
this matter ~ requires the NRC;to deny an operating license 7
f r the.Shoreham facility.
8 Thank you.
g (Applause.)
10 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will take a 10-minute 33 recess at this time.
12 (Recess taken.)
13 14 15 16 17 g
d 19
.W f'
20 e
2i
.ir 22 23 24
' ~ ~
25
16,458
- 15-1-Sud (7:35 p.m.)
2 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Back on the record.
3 D. Cipriano.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5
OF 6
DOROTHY CIPRIANO 7
MS. CIPRIANO:
My-name is Dorothy Cipriano.
I am 8
from Happaugue.
I would like to thank you for the opportunity 9
to speak my mind regarding Shoreham, even though I get the 10 impression it's a foregone conclusion, 11 The reason I feel this way is that in the middle of 12 these scheduled hearings, you have set up a pre-hearing O
13 tomorrow, according to the paper, regarding your review of 14 the evacuation drill before the people in Riverhead and 15 Mineola have had a chance for any input.-
16 This business-as-usual process causes me to feel 17 we are simply being patronized.
In the first place, what 18 evacuation drill are you to review?
In good conscience. you 19 cannot feel that a paper shuffle is a true reflection of 20 human reactions to an emergency situation.
What man or 21 woman who participated in the plan would react the same way 22 in a true emergency?
23 They all have families, childrens, wives, sisters, 24 brothers whose welfare would be more of a concern to them.
Aso-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 In an emergency, if an emergency did happen, while any
16,459 f'}-2-SueW I mother's child was attending a local school, 90 percent of V
2 the mothers would make a dash to the family car and grab 3
their child out of the school immediately.
There would be 4
such a giant exodus from every work place in the County to 5
get their families all accounted for.
6 Can you imagine the roads here, and some of which 7
are still the old country roads not capable of taking the 8
population growth we've had here in Suffolk.
The bumper-to-9 bumper traffic here is already bursting at the seams.
10 Can you guarantee we will.never have an accident?
11 And, if we.do it will be obliging enough to happen on Sunday 12 morning?
Even then, how would I get off the Island and head 13
. west?
The LIE?
We all know its nickname.
14 In addition, I have no faith in LILCO.
So, I feel 15 my accident factor is considerably higher with LILCO.
't 16 In closing, I would like to say that the plant will 17 never save me a red cent.
Nor, thanks to LILCO, will it save 18 my children nor children's children one dime.
And, wasn't 19 that the original purpose?
20 Closing or opening the plant may not save me money, 21 but why should I have to live with a sword of Democules also?
22 Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
James Maxwell.
Ace-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25
16,460
- f^)',5-3-SueWi LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT L
2 OF 3
JAMES MAXWELL 4
'MR. MAXWELL:
Good-evening.
I would like to say 5
first that I live in Rocky Point, much too close to the plant 6
for my safety.
I do believe that not only'are we in peril 7
with the possibility of an accident that any human error could 8
incur, but as groups like-the Union of Concerned Scientists 9
have monitored, there have been thousands of small -- what are 10 called minor -- radiation leaks that have occurred in one 11 year at many of the nation's nuclear power plants that seem 12 to be too small to be reported in local papers, too small f3U 13 to be documented even as causing serious alarms or disturbances.
14 I'm also concerned about these minor radioactive 15 leaks.
We have heard from local fishermen that some of the 16 water hoses that now shoot into the Long Island Sound seem
~17 to be pointing the wrong way.
So, we are concerned for the 18 safety of myself, my family living so close even if there 19 w asn' t any major " accident. "
20 Also, I would like to beg to differ with two 21 speakers before me who -- the gentleman who said money 22 doesn't matter; we will pay whatever it costs to shut it 23 down.
I think, combined with the numerous health and safety (s
\\
24 risks that the plant places us in peril under, I think that Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 the power plant going on line would be an enormous financial
16,461 4-SueW j
disaster for the citizens of Long Island.
I think people 2
will not be able to afford electricity.
3 By LILCO's own estimates, our rates in eight years will double, a 100 percent rate increase.
We are already 4
5 paying the second highest rates in the country.
We are 6
already paying for over 300 million dollars of incurred Shoreham costs, thanks to a rate increase that was approved 7
8 alm st three years ago.
9 LILCO now has put on the table another rate 10 increase where they are asking us to pay for more of the 11 costs.
We are not supposed to have to pay for any of it 12 until it goes on line, but yet LILCO has been sneaking in mI
)
13 m re and more of the costs for Shoreham into the rate base, ja So, I do feel that the economic and financial 15 consequences would be devastating as well to the citizens I
f L ng Island.
A speaker very adequately mentioned --
16 j7 talked about how will the poor and disenfranchised get off 18 the Island, those people who are not privy to private automobiles j9 or boats.
I don't think any of these people would be able to afford their electric rates.
I think the economy of 20 21 L ng Island will be in such a mess that I think you will 22 see small businesses leaving.
23 And I think one must also consider the devastating i
24 financial consequences.
Thank you.
Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 (Applause.)
16,462
^
5-SueW 1 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Meyer Steinberg.
2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT.
3 OF 4
MEYER STEINBERG 5
MR. STEINBERG:
Gentlemen, my name is Meyer 6
Steinberg.
I live on Long Island, Melville, New York.
7 I come here with mixed feelings.
I' haven't 8
attended one of these before.
But, I would like to leave 9
you with a couple of thoughts.
10 There is no. question that the evacuation plan is.
11 very difficult for Long Island, as you've heard.
However, we 12 live on planet earth and I think the business of the O
13 evacuation plan is a moot point.
We have Indian Point not 14 far away; we have Nine Mile Point; we have Mohawk; we have 15 a hundred reactors in this country.
We have 350 in the world.
16 Any one of these that has an accident, it will be 17 felt by others.
As well as we know, Chernobyl was detected
~ 18 in Sweden and Norway.
So, therefore, just because we don't 19 have an evacuation plan doesn't mean that we are safe or that 20 when we shut down the reactor here at Shoreham, which is 21 almost complete, and not operate we will be safe.
Wo are 22 not.
That's the first point.
23 The second point is, it's a matter of responsi-24 bility we have in the world.
We have heard about-the sword Ase Federst Reporters, Inc.
25 of Democules as far-as nuclear power is concerned.
Perhaps
16,463
[""3-6-SueW 1 we made a mistake in developing nuclear power.
But, by
\\)
2 shutting down all reactors doesn't mean we are out of the 3
nuclear age.
4 We have 30,000 nuclear weapons on each side ready 5
to go off at any minute.
To me, and my children and my grand-6 children, that is the main threat, not Shoreham.
7 And I'm wondering about our responsibility when 8
our friends,Gorbochov and Reagan, go to a nuclear disarmament 9
and say we are going to reduce our nuclear weapons, and if you l
l 10 start to think of how are we going to get rid of the nuclear 11 weapon -- each one contains 20 pounds of plutonium that would 12 last a quarter of a million years.
The only way to get rid 13 of it is to burn them up in reactors like Shoreham.
14 And, if we did all of this in a hundred -- in 15 30 years it would take, if we used all our reactors to burn 16 up plutonium.
And, therefore, I wonder now whether in a 17 single area, in a parochial area like Long Island, we can say 18 let's shut down Shoreham and let others worry about the rest 19 of the world, because right now we are 20/30 miles around 20 here and our children will be exposed directly?
21 I think the NRC and the DOE should be responsible 22 for seeing that there is no accident.
And, I'm not saying l
23 that there won't be any human.
You have to design these O(-)
24 reactors so even with human fallibles it will not cause a Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 Chernobyl.
And I think this can be done.
16,464
!" 5-7-S ueW j Thank you, b
2 (Applause.)
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Mary Waters.
4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 5
OF 6
MARY WATERS 7
MS. WATERS:
Hi.
I live in Patchogue, which I 8
believe it's within the 10-mile zone.
9 Radiation poisoning of thousands of reindeer in p)
Sweden and the U.S.S.R. is frightening.
If the lake and the 11 reindeer were contaminated, how many other plants, animals, 12 birds and humnns were contaminated?
And, what will the O
V 13 effects be down the line?
14 Proponents of nuclear power often use the argument 15 that nuclear power is clean and inexpensive.
A power source 16 that contaminates the air, ground water and all living things 17 is neither clean nor inexpensive.
Imagine the cost involved 18 to permanently relocate tens of thousands of people whose 19 homes were contaminated by the Chernobyl disaster.
20 The cost of future medical care for the people 21 effected will be in the millions.
The damage done to the P ysical and mental health of these people, not to mention h
22 23 future generations, is incalculable.
24 Is it worth saving a few dollars now at the cost Ace Federst Reporters, Inc.
25 of destroying the future of the earth?
You have available to
16,465
- f",8-SueW 1
you -- we have available to us alternate sources of energy b
2 such as solar. wind and hydroelectric power.
These power 3
sources are truly clean and inexpensive and do not pose a 4
major threat to the environment.
5 The United States should begin now to develop 6
these power sources to their fullest potential.
We have not, 7
apparently because the people who are involved in the energy 8
industry in the U.S.
and the oil companies and nuclear 9
industry, feel that they don't stand to make enough of a 10 profit from alternate energy sources and have lobbyed Congress 11 to prevent the spending of funds on the development of 12 natural energy.
O 13 We should stop the use of nuclear power now, 14 both in the United States and around the world.
Nuclear 15 fallout is a problem that does not stay within borders.
16 Chernobyl is a perfect example of runaway technology.
17 The average percon has no conception of how 18 nuclear power works or the effects of radiation.
Until we 19 can safely dispose of nuclear waste, until we know how to 20 control a runaway nuclear power plant, we should not be using 21 nuclear power.
22 For decades, the world has lived under the shadow 23 of the threat of nuclear war.
Peaceful nuclear energy is 24 equally as dangerous.
Each day we read new revelations from Acefederal Reporters, Inc.
25 Russians of the devastation caused by Chernobyl.
They tell
l 16,466 F*S-9-SueW 1 us now that the amount of radiation released was equal to b
2 30 to 40 times the amount released by the bombs dropped on 3
Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Most people are afraid that the world 4
will end in a nuclear war.
Has the end of the world already 5
begun, not with a bang but with a whimper?
6 In light of these fact's, I find it hard to believe 7
that today our nuclear power is still necessary.
How can the 8
leaders of the world lead us into a nuclear polluted future?
9 Even if you are not concerned with the environment, 10 even if your only concern is the economy, consider the 11 economic damage that a nuclear accident at Shoreham would 12 cause.
Millions of people would have to be relocated, O
13 businesses worth billions of dollars would have to abandoned.
14 How could anyone say that this plant would save 15 money when these kinds of risks are at stake?
I ask you, l
P ease, to keep shoreham and all nuclear plants in this 16 17 country closed.
18 Thank you.
19 (Applause.)
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Darleen Commarator.
21 l
22 23 24 Am-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16,467 10-SueW LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT j
OF 2
DARLEEN COMMARATOR 3
MS. COMMARATOR:
My name is Darleen Commarator.
4 And I'm here representing Dorothy Wolosin, who is the 5
Executive Director of the Long Island Small Business 6
Association.
7 The family-owned and other small businesses which 8
comprise the membership of LISBA form the backbone of our 9
j L ng Island community and economy.
They include a wide 10 jj variety of businesses, ranging from the neighborhood deli
)
to the corner dry cleaners, the auto repair shop, and the 12
.' O hundrada nf farmore and fichorman whn nn t-only prnvida froch produce, fish and poultry for Long Island consumers, but j4 also form the basis for a substantial portion of the commer-15 cial activity on Long Island.
16 Our members include the Long Island Duck Farm 17 Association, the Brunswick Corporation, Phoenix Real Estate, 18 c
Eastern Management Systems Corporation, and they go on.
j9 The members of LISBA strenuously oppose the-i 20 li ensing of the Shoreham plant.
We take this position not 21 because we are anti-nuclear.
We are not.
Rather, we 22 recognize that Shoreham was an economic and public safety 23 mistake.
24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 We are unwilling to compound the 15-year mistake
- l
16,468
-ll-SueW1 of building Shoreham with a 40-year mistake of operating 2
it.
Thus, we wholeheartedly support the positions in 3
these proceedings taken by the State of New York, Suffolk 4
County, the Town of Southampton, and more recently, Nassau 5
County.
And, we applaud particularly the. actions of Suffolk 6
County and Governor Cuomo to address and'to attempt to resolve 7
the huge economic fiasco created by LILCO's continued re-8 fusal to accept the reality that the Shoreham plant cannot 9
and will not ever open.
10 LISBA has maintained a keen interest in electric il rates, particularly as they relate to LICLO's obsession to 12 license the Shoreham Power Plant.
Shoreham's operation O
13 reprecente a doubling of cur electric ratcc which cannot 14 be absorbed without sharply increased consumer costs, 15 lessened employment and the real possibility of bankruptcy 16 for some of our enterprises.
17 As business persons ourselves, LISBA members are 18 acutely aware of the need to make rational business decisions 19 based upon economic considerations.
In the case of the 20 Shoreham plant, however, in recent years all such decisions 21 made by LILCO have been irrational, shortsighted, and 22 designed to serve only LILCO's own economic interests.
23 LILCO's decision to continue its quest for a 24 Shoreham license, even after it was clear that it could never Ace-Federcl Reporters, Inc.
25 succeed because of the opposition of the State, the County and
16,469
<^35-12-SueN all the citizens of Long Island, has had a devastating impact U
2 upon every aspect of the Long Island business community and 3
the LILCO ratepayers.
Thus, by continuing to attempt to 4
force the Shoreham plant upon the people of Long Island, 5
LILCO has caused electric rates to skyrocket.
6 And, if Shoreham were to be licensed the rate 7
impact would be literally fatal to many LISBA members.
Even 8
if one were to ignore, for the sake of argument, the 9
numerous public safety reasons that Shoreham should never 10 be permitted to operate, LILCO's repeated attempts to 11 bludgeon the people and businesses on Long Island for the 12 sake of its own perceived self-interest will no longer be O
13 tolerated by this community.
14 As business people ourselves, LISBA members may 15 be sympathetic, as a general matter, to the economic losses 16 that LILCO's management and its shareholders will suffer 17 when they finally face the reality that the Shoreham plant 18 cannot operate.
Unfortunately, however, that is the way the 19 private enterprise system in this country works.
J 20 If you make a bad judgment, you may lose money.
21 That's the way it is.
22 The fact of the matter is that LILCO could 23 have cut its losses more than three years ago by recognizing 24 the facts and abandoning its efforts to license Shoreham i
Am.rmurai nemtreri, im.
25 back in 1983, when the amount of the money it had spent was I
w----
--~-----,,,,re-
,-,.----,--,-,,,,--,-----,---..r m.--.--p,_---
,.-m.,-----
16,470
- 7~713-SueW i only over slightly three billion.
At that time, LILCO was Y_]
2 offered by the Suffolk County Executive and Governor Cuomo 3
the chance to abandon Shoreham under financial terms that 4
were fair to the stockholders, bondholders, creditors and 5
ratepayers.
LILCO refused to take advantage of the op-6 portunity presented to it for no good reason, other than 7
its own perceived self-interest.
8 Instead, LILCO proceeded to squander five billion 9
on the Shoreham plant and now proposes that the people on 10 Long Island -- not LILCO -- should pay the consequences of 11 the LILCO decision by risking their lives and their liveli-12 hoods, not to mention cleaning out their pocketbooks.
s
('/
- 3 That is simply not acceptable in thic country and 14 this Board cannot be a party to such a proposal.
15 This Board must recognize that we live in a 16 democracy and that that risk simply will not be tolerated by j7 the people who live on this Island.
Those of us in the 18 business community, as well as in the non-business community, 19 are prepared to develop alternate energy sources and do 20 whatever is necessary to meet our energy needs without the 21 Operation of the Shoreham plant.
22 We will not tolerate, however, the creation of 23 the Chernobyl time bomb which LILCO seeks to impose upon us.
(O
\\m/
24 In closing, I must emphasize one thing.
This Ace-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 Board cannot lose sight of an essential fact.
Regardless of
16,471
^il5-14-Sue its fancy words, computer models, or detailed procedures, (G
2 no emergency plan can work if the people do not believe in 3
it and refuse to give credence or authority to the entity 4
charged with implementing such a plan.
I know that this 5
Licensing Board has said that major portions of LILCO's 6
proposed emergency plan are adequate as words on paper, and 7
that if the people on Long Island follow LILCO's directions 8
during a nuclear accident this Board believes that they could 9
be protected.
10 Well, those beliefs are pie-in-the-sky and not 11 worth the paper they are written on.
The fact is that the 12 people of Long Island know that an evacuation is impossible.
,.U 13 They know that LILCO can't be Lrusled.
They know that if 14 the plant were licensed a Chernobyl could happen here.
15 And, they will not permit LILCO to direct their 16 activities or the NRC.to try to hoodwink them into believing 17 they are safe when the facts tell them the opposite.
This 18 Board must face reality just as LILCO must.
19 This proceeding must be brought to an end so 20 that Long Island can attend to the economic which LILCO, by 21 its arrogant refusal to accept the facts, has created.
This 22 Board must deny LILCO's license application so we can get to 23 work repairing the harm LILCO kias already caused to this AkJ 24 community and taking positive steps to improve our community Am Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 rather than wasting time talking about how to destroy it.
16,472
- 7']l5-SueW I Thank you.
V 2
(Applause.)
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Barry Pincus.
4 (No response.)
5 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Rosemary Pincus.
6 (No response.)
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Sharon Brown.
f 8
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 9
OF 10 SHARON BROWN.
11 MS. BROWN:
Thank you.
I was very happy to 12 learn that you gentlemen came here to listen to us.
I'm 13 sure you have had a long day and so have luany of us cul 4
14 here.
15 My day started at 4:30.
I had to drive my husband 4
16 to the airport, back east to work at 6:30, started for the 17 University at 3 p.m.,
out of class at 5 p.m.
And, by chance 18 I saw a leaflet on a very messy bulletin board about this 19 hearing.
If I hadn't seen that, I wouldn't have been here, i
20 And I feel that if the hearings had been more 21 Publicized, perhaps on radio cr in the local papers more, 22 this room would be so crowded that there wouldn't be a seat.
23 (Applause.)
24 I didn't have the chance to call any friends or Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 tell any relatives.
I just got in my car, and it being rush
..-~... _ _.,
l 16,473
(^1-16-SueWI hour it was all I could do to get here by 6:30.
I came
'd 2
because I have heard many stories of incompetency about 3
-Shoreham, as was mentioned earlier about concrete walls and 4
faulty generators.
I recall a segment on 60 Minutes about 5
the building of Shoreham.
6 In today's " Times" referred to before, it was an 7
article about Chernobyl and the devastating effects of it 8
in comparison to a nuclear war.
But, it isn't just this 9
fear but I thought I should come to relate to you honestly 10 that I, as a very average member of the public, do suspect 11 not only nuclear power in general but LILCO in particular.
12 And, at the slightest hint of the possibility of f_s k-)
13 radioactive leaks 1, and most people.1 know, are going to 14 try to leave our homes.
We are rational people; we are 15 educated people.
I am a teacher, my husband is a psychologist l'6 My father is an engineer.
My sister _and her husband are in l'7 banking.
And, we are all going to try to leave our homes.
18 I live in Yaphank.
My plan was to go to my parents 19 in Hauppauge.
But, their plan was to go to my sister's in 20 Iluntington.
And their plan was to go to their in-laws in 21 Hicksville who planned to go to their home Upstate.
22 (Laughter.)
23 Now, I would just like to say that the joke is on 24 all of us, because.even the best made plans of men often go Am Federd Reprters, Inc.
25 astray.
16,474 17-SueW 1 Thank you.
2 (Applause.)
3 cnddd 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 k
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Ace-FedersA Reporters, Inc.
25 g-
16,475 16-1-gjw 1
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Brian Karpin?
(v~)'
2 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 3
of 4
BRIAN KARPIN 5
MR. KARPIN:
Hello, gentlemen.
It's funny, but 6
some people I work with have -- them and I have very strong 7
opposing views on basically politics and religion, but it 8
seems that our ideas and feelings about Shoreham are similar, 9
and that seems to run through the blood of most people that 10 I know, 11 I would like to point out some things.
In this 12 nation we have set up a government that according to our O
~
13 Conctitution our Bill of Rights is by and for the. people.
14 That essentially means that as citizens of this nation, through 15 our government and elected officials and laws, we have the 16 choice and the right to decide whether or not we want someone, 17 some group, or company, to impose their desires on us regard-18 less of their reasons..Whether those reasons be economic, 19 tradition, prifit and the like.
We have the right to protection 20 from those individuals or organizations whose greedy narrow 21 desire it is to impose on us a threat to our health, safety, 22 livelihood, property.
23 When the health and safety of many are ignored by
()
24 companies or individuals, blindly committed to economics and Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 profit only, then a violation of our rights have occurred, and l
16-2-gjw' 16,476 1
a crime committed against all the people affected by the 2
offenders act.
This is the case of LILCO and its supporters.
3 They have no concern about the fact that in reality 4
and efficient evacuation of this Island is totally impossible.
5 Our health and safety as a people are dramatically and 6
negatively affected in the event of a nuclear accident.
If 7
our health and property survived the damage caused by the 8
accident itself, we will be further endangered by - the frenzy 9
and hysteria that would accompany a mass evacuation, especiall y
10 in light of the unique geography of the Island.
11 Precious speed needed to evacuate all safely will 12 be lost in the impossible traffic jams created by the mass O
13 of citizens.
The limits of our roads and highways are 14 analagous to trying to bail a sinking ocean liner with one 15 gallon pails.
16 Anyone who travels Long Island's roads daily knows 17 that their capacities can easily be exceeded.
The threats 18 and losses from an accident are serious enough to affect a 19 large segment of Long Island citizens.
Chernobyl and' Three 20 Mile Island are graphic examples.
21 Nuclear power is a technology we cannot safely 22 control.
The imperfections of it present too great a risk 23 and great losses to justify its use and existence for any
()
24 sane reason.
Radiation cannot be neutralized or mopped up.
Aeweders neponer3. inc.
25 LILCO must not be allowed to impose this on us.
16-3-gjw 16,477 i
I You must not shrug off our long and sorry history of nuclear 2
mishaps, cover-ups and corruption.
Then allow this plant 3
to be approved for operation.
We are a free nation with options, alternatives and solutions to our problems.
4 The people of Long Island, the suffolk Legislature, 5
do not support or want this plant.
You must not let this 6
)
type of suffering be imposed upon us and our children.
7 Sensibility, health and safety must prevail in your decisions, 8
j 9
and take all precedents over economy.
l 10 Thank you.
11 (Applause.)
12 JUDGE.MARGULIES:
Lee Kelly?
- O 14 15 i
16 i
'17 4
18 j
19 20 21 22 23 24 Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16-4-gjw 16,478 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT s_/
2 OF 3
LEE KELLY 4
MR. KELLY:
Good evening.
I am Lee Kelly, and I 5
live in West Islip.
6 I come here tonight mainly to listen, and when I 7
got here tonight I realized you have been listening all 8
day, and I think that you must listen to the will of the 9
people.
]
10 Seventy-five percent.of the people on Long Island 11 have said no to Shoreham.
We can't be ignored.
Our 12 government is a government by the people, for the people, and O
13 of the peuple, and we demand that we bc heard and lictened to 14 and respected in this respect.
15 If the power plant opens, we are going to live in 16 constant fear.
If we don' t have an accident, thank God.
But 17 if we don' t have an accident, we are all going to die of 18 starvation because we won't be able to afford the rates.
19 (Applause.)
20 And no one really wants to cry about money, but 21 I am getting to the age where I have to look forward to 22 re tirement.
I have worked all my working years to buy a 23 house, put my family through school, and now to look forward
()
24 to retirement.
And it comes as a terrible thought to me and Aco-Federst Reporters, Inc.
25 thousands and thousands of other people, that when I retire
16,479 16-5-gjw 1
I have to move.
That I can't live the rest of my life where 2
I spent my working years because I no longer can afford it.
-3 This thing is preposterous.
How could it drag on this far 4
is beyond my wildest comprehensions.
5 If seventy-five percent of the people say no, how 6
can anyone possibly conceive they are going to cram it down 7
our throats.
It was voiced before that if this thing does 8
come to pass and they do license it, and you license it, 9
that we should stop paying our bills.
That sounds like a 10 good idea.
11 (Applause.)
12 Thank you very much.
j3 JUDGC MARGULIEC:
Philip Coldctcin?
14 15 16 i
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
()
24 Ace.Feder:A Reporters, Inc.
s l
25
16,480 16-6-gjw
/
~
1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT m
)
x w
3 PHILIP GOLDSTEIN 4
Gentlemen, I have a problem.
I am 5
a social studies teacher, and I have great difficulty trying 6
to explain to my students the kind of thing that the 7
gentleman just before me has said.
8 I teach American History.
We have been discussing 9
the Constitution.
We talk about the division of power and 10 the fact that the States existed before the National Govern-11 ment.
The National Government was delegated powers by the 12 States, but the balance of the power was reserved for the
/^N, I3 States and the peuple, and Lhal einvug those powers is the
~
14 protection of the health and the safety of the people of 15 '
each state.
16 Yet, here we sit pleading to an appointed body to 17 do justice.
The justice which our Constitution embodies.
18 As the gentleman before me said, we the people are the boss.
19 This is supposedly a democracy, and though it is a represen-20 tative democracy, we elect representatives, and I realize 21 that the NRC was created by the Congress.
Still and all, 22 under that division of power, the protection of our health 23 and safety belongs to the Government of the State of New n()
24 York, and the Governor and all of our local elected AceMederal Rep 3rters. Inc.
25 representatives have stated that they are opposed to the
16,481 16-7-gjw 1
opening of Shoreham, and that no evacuation plan that is v'
2 meaningful can be created under the circumstances that exist 3
here.
4 I challenge the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to 5
come here and even under the best of conditions, to try what 6
C do every day.
I commute to New York City to teach.
Face 7
that kind of traffic, and then consider the worst possible 8
situation.
Even simple rainfall turns the roads into a 9
disas te r.
Read the local newspaper and see what happens 10 when a mayonnaise truck turns over.
11 This is a joke.
It is a sad joke.
But how people 12 sitting in Washington can have the audacity to go through the b
\\'
13 kind of tarcial procedures tnat have been perpetrated, and 14 it is alleged that it is possible to evacuate this Island 15 under circumstances such as I have described, I mean it is 16 ridiculous.
17 I cannot answer my students.
I cannot explain to 18 them how they should believe in our system of government when 19 we see such a hoax being perpetrated.
Our own member of 20 Congress was an embarrassment to the ruling party of this 21 nation and had to withdraw, despite the fact that here was 22 an incumbent -- and if you know anything about politics, and 23 I am sure you do -- the incumbent has an almost guaranteed
()
24 assurance of re-election.
More than ninety percent-of most Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 incumbents are returned to office.
16,482 16-8-gjw 1
Yet, here is a Congressman who had to withdraw 2
his candidacy because his position was so absolutely 3
ridiculous.
And both of the candidates now runing are 4
unequivocally opposed to the opening, and they are.the 5
national representatives who will sit in the Congress of the 6
United States to speak as the voice of the people of Suf folk 7
County and Long Island.
And in the face of that, I cannot 8
understand how the Nuclear Regulatory Commission could 9
possibly entertain opening Shoreham.
10 Thank you.
11 (Applause.)
12 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Erma Fiest?
Van Howell?
O 13 14 15 16 i
17 18 1
19 20 21 l
22
(
23
. ()
24
- u,~......,-
25
16-9-gjw 16,483 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i
~'
OF 2
3 VAN HOWELL 4
MR. IIOWELL:
Hello.
I have lived and worked and 5
run some businesses on Long Island for a lot of years, including several years within a mile of the Shoreham Nuclear 6
Power Station.
7 I know as much as anyone else around here about 8
9 the Island's frequent traffic jams.
I have spent many not 10 very happy hours of my life in them, and I would also like 11 to mention with the growing population and so forth, I don't think that efforts to improve local roads are ever going to 12 13 be able Lv cupe with increaning Ltaffic load 5, svan if the v'
14 entire eastern end of Long Island is paved over.
The future traffic is probably going to make 15 16 today's traffic look like nothing, just as today's traffic makes ten years ago traffic look like nothing.
17 18 I am not here really to talk about traffic though.
19 I am talking about something much more basic.
20 As a matter of fact, the previous speaker took out of my mouth some of the words that I was beginning to 21 formulate in my head, because in recent years I started to 22 every once in a while have a look at the Constit.ution of the 23 United States as it is produced in the World Almanac, and
)
24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
i I was fascinated to see a legal professor quoted in Newsday 25
16,484 16-10-gjw.
1 as saying that LILCO's efforts to control evacuation were 7 s,
-(J 2
beside the point, because the 10th Amendment hasn't really 3
been in effect for a long time.
4 That struck me as very peculiar.that a respected 5
newspaper and respected law professor would make a statement 6
like that without comment.
7 There was never an amendment passed to overturn 8
the 10th Amendment.
Also, the Atomic Energy Act of -- I 9
don't remember what year it was -- 1947, was that it?
'54?
10 Whatever it was, has set up the AEC and you guys so that the 11 Federal Government has complete control over everything 12 related to nuclear power, which is completely at odds with 13 the tenth amendment.
14 Now, the reason this is important to talk about is 15 I think we are in a situation right now which is the legal 16 equivalent of where we are at with the technology on Shoreham 17 ten years ago.
Ten years ago I had been living in the Town 18 of Shoreham a couple of years, and my wife and I had been i
19 hearing quite a few rumors around town about the way the 20 plant was cons tructed.
People talked about it a lot.
21 Nobody talked about it in public, in an official forum, and 22 we decided just for the hell of it, maybe we would try, afraid 23 of making fools of ourselves because we couldn't back it
()
24 up, we didn't have documented evidence.
~
Ass-Federal Heporters, Inc.
}
25 Since then, there has been an avalance of documented 4
.-,--,.--,.n.
16-11-gjw 16,485 1
. conveniently ognored and distorted in absurb ways by your 2
own Commission.
And that is.one of the primary reasons why 3
the - people on. Long Island are one way or another not going-4 to allow this to operate.
5 (Applause.)
6 Now people are beginning to talk.
Have been talkinc 7
for a few years about the legal problems, with the entire 8
decision making process that put me in this chair and you 9
in that chair, where I, one of the people, and from one of the 10 states to whom those other powers were not delegated to you, 11 and begging you, knowing that it is a joke, to please follow 12 common sense and not accept an ' absolutely phony evacuation 13 plan.
14 I think that as people begin to realize more and 15 more that this entire decision making process has been 16 illegitimate and invalid under the United States Constitution, 17 That something is going to change somewhere.
l 18 I think people are beginning to realize this, and i
i 19 are going to ack on it.at some point in some way.
I would 1
i 1
i 20 like to further say that the only apparently valid argument j
21 in favor of operating the nuclear plant in the absence of I
l 22 a workable evacuation plan is that LILCO investors and
{
23 creditors hope to recover its awesome construction cost.
On I
j 24 closer examination, this argument collapses.
Even aside
{
d Rnerters, ltw.
l 25 from on moral grounds whether you want to risk everybody's i
I
'16,486 16 gjw 1
lives so some people can get some money back from a bad' O
\\/
2 investpent, even if you. leave that aside, the argument 3
collapses.
4 The Interveners in Shoreham construction permit 5
hearings, over twelve years ago, attempted to introduce 6
the evacuation issue into those proceedings.
They were 7
overruled by the Atomic Energy Commission, and informed that 8
the evacuation question would be considered only af ter the 9
construction was completed, during the operating license 10 hearings.
11 So here we are, four billion dollars later because 12 your predecessors, the AEC, didn't want to talk about this J
13 stuff back in the early '70's, and they lef t it to you and 14 your bosses to think about it now when you obviously can't 15' think about it objectively with this amount of power and 16 this amount of money tied up on the other side of the 17 question.
J 18 Under the circumstances, if the NRC were now a 3
19 sueable entity -- and I am not sure if you are or not -- it 20 would seem fairly clear that the AEC's successor and interest, 21 that is you, if an operating license were denied, could be i
22 sued by the Long Island Lighting Company to recover the i
)
23 cost of construction.
And even the remote possibility that
[ lll 24 such a lawsuit might possibly be considered by a court, puts
' hPoderal Reportees, Inc.
25 the NRC in a very awkward position, and an obvious conflict l
16-13-gjw 1
of interest, which further invalidates any decision you could (v
2 make to grant an operating license.
3 I think you are lef t with three alternatives.
A, 4
admit that the AEC's ruling twelve years ago, or whenever it 5
was, was disasterously wrong headed, which would require 6
the Commissionerr to hold up their colleagues and predecessors.
7 to public ridicule, which you don't want to do; B, you could 8
pretend tnat the Island can be evacuated in spite all of the 9
evidence f.o the contrary in order to save face and avoid 10 the first encico, or C, you could simply disqualify your-11 selves from the entire matter, since, the NRC and AEC are 12 so obviously not capable of arriving at a rational, objective D
13 decision at this point in the process, and are not obviously 14 not capable of setting up an objective and rational process 15 of decision making on these matters, and because of the 16 obvious conflict of interest and the risk of an unprecedented 17 degree of public wrath.
18 (Applause.)
19 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Marsha Slakin?
20 21 22 23 24 25
..-= _.
+
'16 g jw 16,488 I
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
MARSHA SLAKIN 4
MS. SLAKIN:
I lived in Shoreham for seventeen 5
years, and I have already evacuated.
I 'lef t when the plant t
6 went to five percent, because during the entire time I had 7
lived there, we had met workers and we had met people 8
associated with the plant who had talked to us about the 9
shoddy construction, and had said they never -- they said 10 they were getting out if it ever opened.
These were people -
11 connected with the plant.
12 It is not easy to. leave your home.
It is not
' O)'
13 easy to leave a home where you have raised children, where 14 you have tended to the garden.
A home that you loved.
Becaure 15 you have to get out.
16 All that I want you to do at this point, because 17 everyone has said very fine things, all that I want you to 18 do is take the imaginative lead, imagine that you were within 19 ten miles of Chernobyl, and you had to leave everything you 20 had loved for many, many years, and go away.
21 It is not just the expense.
It is a lot of things.
22 You get rooted to an area, and it is very hard to leave.
End 16, 23 24 Ase federet fletu>tters, Inc.
25 i
1 16,489
{ '
' Sis 117-1 1
In addition to that, you have'the constant 1/'mJ 2
nagging-fear of how many years have been taken from me U
and how much contamination.has there been.
3 t
b 4
What are we getting in return for these kinds t-5 of. worries?
What are we being given?
I'll tell you,,1f 1
j 6
you-have to leave your home and you have to worry in that y
way for the rest of your life, no amount of electricity 8 -
is going to lighten your heart.
i i
g (Applause.)
u)
JUDGE'MARGULIES:
Pat Flatley.
jj LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT f
12 OF 13 PAT FLATLEY
- O
~
14 MS. FLATLEY:
Good evening.
15 My name is Pat Flatley.
I am from Miller Place. We just moved out there approximately a little 16 37 over a year ago.
I live there with my husband.
I have r
18 lived on Long Island all of my life.
My family lives l-l g
y, here and my friends.
a j
Most of them were not able to attend, but their g
a fd s ntinents ar the same as mine.
21 1
There have been people here that have said 22 f
a1t f v ry g d things and they speak very well, and 23 I might repeat some of the issues that they have brought 24
()
ut, but some of them I feel are important to get across 25 l
i I
I I
16,490 I
Sim 17-2 to you the reality of living on Long Island.
("x')
LILCO's evacuation plan is based on several 2
s f
3 incorrect assumptions.
First of all, is that people will 4
do what they are told to do.
They will not.
If they are 5
in panic they will do whatever they can to save their lives 6
and their families.
7
( Applause. )
8 Secondly, LILCO assumes that the roads on 9
Long Island will handle the volume for people to escape.
")
They will not.
My husband leaves at 6:30 in the morning 11 to arrive in Melville which is a little bit over 30 miles 12 away.
He arrives there ate 8 o' clock in the morning.
It 13 takes him a hour and a half.
That is on a good day.
If
<x(v) 14 there is snow or if there is rain or if there is a police 15 car on the side of the road, it can take him two and a half 16 hours1.851852e-4 days <br />0.00444 hours <br />2.645503e-5 weeks <br />6.088e-6 months <br /> to get there.
I j
I am an accountant and I travel locally within 17 18 the roads daily.
I travel from Rocky Point to Staukit to j
to Brooklyn.
It can take me two and a half hours or three houre Y
[
20 to get into Brooklyn on a normal day.
From Rocky Point to
?j 21 Staukit which is 15 miles away it takes a half an hour to
!r 22 get to there.
23 Thirdly, LILCO' decides thatit can determine 24 what the evacuation zone barriers are.
As we have ceen b'
from Chernob l, we walk a dangerous line when we try to x-25 i
16,491
-Sim 17-3 1
predict in advance nature's response to sudden contamination 4
(~s 2
without quick and accurate evaluations of the affected
'3 areas.
No meaningful evacuation instructions could be i
4 issued in order to be sure to cover every'possible contamina--
i 5
tion scenario.
The evacuation zone to be larger would need 6
to be larger than+Long Island itself.
7 Due to the. unique-geographical characteristics i
8 of Long Island the public safety cannot be guaranteed.
9 Shoreham must be permanently placed off line.
Even our to homes are designed with two exits.
1 11 As~ residents of Long Island living within a I
12 five to ten-mile radius of Shoreham, we beg you, the NRC, 13 to hear.our plea.
Please do.not. issue a license to-LILCO
' O i
14 to operate'a nuclear power' plant at-Shoreham.
15
-Thank you.
(APP ause. )
l 16 t
17 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Thomas Cologero.
18 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT Ic j
19 OF i
i THOMAS J.
COLOGERO
- E 20 a
!f MR. COLOGERO:
My name is Thomas J. Cologero, 21 ir I live at 562 Higbie Lane, and I have been there since 22 1957, long before Shoreham was ever thought of.
j 23 An accident at Shoreham, when we consider that 24 25 the accident at Chernobyl was felt as far away as Norway,
16,492 Sim 17-4 1
an accident at Shoreham would envelope the whole island 2
of Long Island.
And should an accident occur there, there 3
would be no way of getting away from it.
4 (Applause.)
5 I urge-that the Shoreham facility be not 6
licensed.
7 (Applause.)
8 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Susan'Gaibrais.
g LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT i
10 OF SUSAN GAIBRAIS 11 MS. GAIBRAIS:
' Hello.
I came here this 12 13 afternoon.-- or I should say this evening.
I had no idea O
I would-be here.
I saw a-small ad.in Newsday_which was 34 c.
about two inches large, which I think is quite unfair.
I 15 haven't seen any advertising, and I don't think half the 16 people at least where I come from, Smithtown, are aware of 37 I
this meeting tonight.
18 I
All I would like to say is I personally know g
jg J
two people that have been involved with Shoreham and 20 d
both of them are alcoholics.
Now whether it means anything 21 I
E rnt, all they could do was laught in the bar on how 22 this place was made.
There are cracks in the cement, 23 and I am sure you are well aware of them, or maybe you 24 are n t.
25
16,493 Sim 17-5 I find it a danger, a threat to my personal r'
2
(
)
well-being and for my children, and-if there is anything
~, -
3 I can do from this moment on to go against Shoreham and 4
LILCO, I'm going to do it.
5 (Applause.)
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Gary Gaibrais.
7
.(No response.)
8 Richard Hermansen.
9 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 10 OF 11 RICHARD HERMANSEN 12 MR. HERMANSEN:
My name is Richard Hermansen.
13 I live in Patchogue.
r'%
t 1
' u.J 14 The AEC had job to do, and they failed to do 15
'it by not stopping this at the beginning.
They left it 16 for you.
If you license this plant, you will fail to do 17
,i what you are supposed to do, to protect the people of 18 i
Long Island.
2 19 (Applause.)
lj 20 LILCO has no concern for the people of Long d"
21 Island.
They have proved it time and time again.
They have l:
22 figured this plant to cost $250 million.
That was a long, 23 long time ago.
I figure now it is $5 billion.
1 24 Electricity was supposed to be so cheap that k'
25 we wouldn't need any meters.
I would like them to take
16,494 Sim 17-d my meter out.
(Applause.)
(
)
The people have no confidence in LILCO and they a
never will.
They have pleaded with us in 1973 to cut 4
back on our electric use, to conserve fuel.
The people of 5
Long Island responded and we cut back dramatically.
Whether we get -- LILCO says we didn't use enough electric so that we are raising our rates.
They are claiming poverty and claiming bankruptcy.
They spend money to take out ads, g
they are going to give free audits for homeowners.
They are on television explaining ~the shortage of electricity during the summer months, and meanwhile they are using precious electric to run their low-power testing.
4
\\_ /
(Applause.)
This whole plant is a farce.
As far as evacua-tion, only a fool would believe in evacuation.
There is no such thing.
It cannot be done, no way.
I 17 2
Thank you very much.
18 (Applause.)
j 19 l
JUDGE MARGULIES:
Lillian Selzer.
20 J
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT I
21 f
OF 22 LILLIAN SELZER 23 MS. SELZER:
I am Lillian Selzer from West 24 (m)
Islip.
I am a homeowner for almost 30 years and also N/
25 l
1 l
16,495 Sim 17-5 1
a business owner.
x 2
I beg of you people to not give a license to Nj!
3
'Shoreham.
We are locked in and there are many times that 4
I have been on the roads at off times and the traffic is 5
' horrendous.
It is bumper to bumper.
I cannot imagine 6
people fleeing.
If they did flee, what would we come back 7
to, radiation, to nothing?
All the things that we built 8
up and all of the things that we have done, we would have.
g nothing, and where would the people relocate?
10 If on the small possibility that some do come ij back to this area, do you really think that we would be 12 able to make a place for ourselves?
Where would we go 13 into the cities to make a place because it is crowded in f.
)
'~ #
there.
34 The people do not want Shoreham.
They don't.
15 I don't feel any group from Washington should shove it 16 a
h 17 down our throats.
We'are free people and we are a demo-2 18 cracy.
(Applause.)
)
ig acocs MAncut1ss:
charles selzer.
29 d
(No response. )
21 5
June Di Tommaso.
23 24
./
)
(J 25 d
b*
~
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT
'~ m.
2 OF
.j 3
JUNE DI TOMMASO 4
MS. TOMMASO:
My name is June Di Tommaso and 5
I live in Smithtown.
6 I really didn't write a prepared speech because 7
I didn't plan to speak.
8 LILCO originally was built for a cheaper and 9
a safe energy.
This is not true.
Their paper evaucation 10 is somewhat like my budget.
On paper it looks great, but 11 in reality, forget it.
12 (Applause.)
12 Someone else also brought up the point of what
(
)
14 happens to the people east of Shoreham in our so-called 15 evacuation?
Do they have to go past Shoreham to get off 16 of the island or do they head towards Europe?
s 17 (Applause.)
2 18 How are they going to leave?
It is impossible.
O j
ig You people really should consider the people f the island, the thousands of people that love beautiful 20 t
U Long Island.
21 3
m E
Please say no to LILCO.
22 (Applause.)
23 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We have received a number 24
,e of written statements which we will include in the record.
(,,,/
25
i 16,497
-Sim17f.
I The parties who submitted the statements are
~
/~~ 5 2
( )
not.here.
They are Mary Ellen Odierna, J.
- Beckwith, 3
Mr. and Mrs. Ronald Bova, Patricia Toner and Joan Hanley.
FROM THE FLOOR:
Excuse me, are you finished?
I signed up outside.
I came in.rather late.
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We are not finished.
7 If there a sign-up sheet out.there with a 8
number of' names on it, or is there a single name?
8 FROM THE FLOOR:
I assume there is a sign'-up 10 sheet that my name is on.
11 (The sign-up sheet was h'anded to Judge Margulies.
12 FROM THE FLOOR:
You called my name earier 13 j ~g and I wasn't here when you called it.
So I would like to O
14 speak also.
15 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Michell Singer.
16 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 17 g,
OF 18 t
i MICHELL' SINGER' c
WehavebeNnwaitingalongtime d
19 MS. SINGER:
a 20 for this opportunity.to testify before you and we thank a
0 you very much for coming.
21 2
2 22 Unfortuately, due to the short notice and the 23 lack of publicity, you are only getting a small sample 4
24 of the anti-Shoreham sentiment.
25 (Applause.)
k
,,-c..
m,.-w-,
.i 16,498 Sim17-k1 I have lived'on Long Island for 41 years, and 2
I am the Long Island Regional Trainer _for the Reading
-v 3
Game, which has seven centers located from Port' Jefferson 4
.in Suffolk County to Massapequa in Nassau County and 5
Garden City in Queens.
6 Two points that I will make from'my.own 7
experience.
No matter what time of day or evening I 8
travel the two major arteris or the minor roads, there~is g
never a good drive time.
There are no respites between 10 the rush hours as we had years ago because of the density of cars, construction delays, weather and accidents taking-11 up the slack.
12 13 Two, I work with over 40 teachers and the O.
14 centers are open from 8 a.m.
to sometimes 9 or 10 at night.
15 First of all, I made a quick survey of the 16 teachers that work at the various centers and most of them j
g 2
I would say -- there were two other teachers that knew about 5
18 a
these hearings today.
gg i
In reply to the informal dhone survey I - found 20 5
almost unanimous' agreement that if a mishap, no matter how 3I small, would occur at Shoreham, these men and women would rush to evacuate their own children rather than remain with our students at the centers.
ny r
ey a
een_done W M 25
16,499 Sim 17-d '
local teachers and bus drivers and the same conclusions 2
(
')
were made.
%)
3 As parents and teachers I feel that we should 4
not be faced with even the possibility of this selfish 5
choice.
6 Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Will the gentleman who 9
previously signed up come forward.
H)
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 11 OF 12 PETER QUINN 13 MR. QUINN:
Good evening.
)
%. J 14 My name is Peter Quinn, and I am the corresponding 15 Secretary of the Long Island Public Power Project.
16 Here we are tonight holding a sham hearing i
g to discuss a sham evacuation plan conducted by a sham 17 18 g
utility which has determined to open a sham nuclear power j
19 plant in order to provide half the electricity it claimed 8
l 20 will be provided LILCO ratepayers in order to charge those t
21 customers more than double the cost of electricty. ---
W
=
22 (Applause.)
23
--- that the public is now being charged in 24 order to satisfy the insatiable quest for profit by gm, k-25 LILCO management, prefe'rred stockholders grown accustomed
16,500 17-Y I Sim inordinately high rates of return and the creditors',.those 2
(}
bond marketeers in the banking and investment community t
3 who behind the scenes set ridiculous interest rates on an 4
incompetent company knowing full well th'at 950,000 rate-5 payers can easily be manipulated.
6 (Applause.)
7 This is a sham hearing because those in 8
Washington from President Reagan to the NRC Commission 9
to its Appeal Board, to FEMA and to certain politicians 10 t
favoring nuclear power, all those thugs in business suits l
11 who have sent you here to be smug and not answer any 12 questions and listen somewhat politely to people who lack 13 proper access to power to express their fears and frustra-s k.-)
14 tions and then go-back to Washington' hands tied and mouths 15 muffled while others dictate that Shoreham shall be opened.
16 Be that as it may, I'm here anyway because you I'7 three are all I've got for a sounding board and, frankly,
- g h
18 I feel that is pretty pitiful.
3
-j 19 (Applause.)
a
.5j 20 It is a sham of an evacuation drill which LILCO 3
0 21 conducted last. February because LILCO never planned it to 3:
22 be anything but a paper drill.
The Nassau colosseum 23 existed only in LILCO's mind as a terminal point to people 24 fleeing eastern Long Island and now that notion has been y
25 confirmed by Nassau officials who formerly rejected the T
C
16,501 Sim17-$
the colosseum as a useful place.for LILCO to send people.
'm y
Before that the schools were alleged by LILCO r
3 to be a repository for residents.
The only trouble was that 4
none of the superintendents of those schools knew that they 5
were involved and have since jointly rejected LILCO's 6
position that the schools were to be used.
7 Matthew Cordaro, Senior Vice President of LILCO, 8
stood in this very room some six or seven years ago appearing 8
before a State energy panel headed by Assembly Speaker, 10 Stanley Fink, and insisted that LILCO would never partici-11 pate in a real evacuation plan of some 17 zones cited on 12 a map or even the two zones that were within a two mile 13 f
radius color coded in a different color.
.14 When Fink asked why, Cordaro responded that 15 LILCO didn't wish to see people injured in a trial-run.
It t
16 is a shan'e that Cordaro wasn't challenged on the consequences of injurids and deaths from a possible accident at Shoreham l
17 t
h 3.
18 should it hpen.
But in those days the utilities were o
- l 19 relying on-[the flawed Rasmusen Report.
20 There is no burn unit-on Long Island, as I J
understand'j.t, capable of caring for more than a handful 21 of seriousl$ burned in'dividuals from a nuclear accident.
22 r
2?
There is no provision for caring or for dealing 24 with animals or household pets, and LILCO workers are d
25 a poor substitute for police rights which are accorded
16,502 Sim17-kf1_
to government and not a private company.
r~*
2 And I su'ppose I should inject at this point
\\
3 one of my concerns is the notion of notification.
- Frankly, 4
I am not going to trust to a private utility-the notifica-5 tion of government officials when in the past their history 6
has been totally lacking in proper notification.
7 So that if there was a long gap of time 8
between an incident, a major incident and not a minor one,.
9 the whole issue of the notion of evacuation is superfluous.
10 But an evacuation from an irradiated area is i
11 a sham on its face for from what we read of Chernobyl we 12 know that Cesium fallout may be death to the land for 13 100 years.
Thus, evacuation is a one-way street.
s 14 Who can say with certainty that anyone will 15 be-allowed to return to a 10-mile or a 20-zone or one
-16 even farther away?
What does that mean to those who left 17 behind certain portable property, let alone real property.
18 For those who left and had nowhere to go, what provision ac-j gg
.has the NRC or LILCO made to ensure their future welfare?
i None.
j 20 s
t 3
( Applause.-)
21 2:
Does that mean'that'many evacuees will become 22 like many of New York City's poor, abandoned, or like 23 Europe after World War II with millions of displaced persons?
24 Shoreham is a sham not only because it was inappropriate 25
16,503 Sim 17-75 1
to build here given LILCO's demographics and transportation
(" 3 2
problems, but also because LILCO's Adam Matson admitted
'Nj 3
publicly three years ago during Suffolks' limited asset 4
acquisition hearings in a public take-over or Shoreham 5
that there was no real shortage of electricity, but the 6
company used that roost throughout the 70's in order to
~
7 expedite the nuclear plant's opening.
8 Shoreham is an 809 megawatt reactor that g
typically will operate at 50 percent efficiency or provide 10 annually only 405 megawatts on a daily average basis.
That ti amounts to less than 18 percent of LILCO's daily electrical 12 use, a far cry from the 33 and a third percent LILCO 13 alleges.
/,i t
Conservation measures if instituted could cut 14 LILCO's peak load needs by more than 500 megawatts and 15 16 totally eliminate the need for Shoreham through the year a
h 2010.
At best Shoreham is a 30-year financial arrangement' 17 e
with Wall Street'and bondsmen who float bonds on structures 18 j
19 for that period.
Surely y u don't presume to tell us otherwise, 20 d
When a plant in Illinois closed after 18 years because 21 k
f hot pipes and one in Southern California closed after
~
22 17 years because of thermal core heat in the reactor, and 23 ne in S uth Carolina closed after 12 years and Three Mile 24 O)
Island, of course, lasted just three months. you are not
(_-
25
)
I 16,504 j -
>Sim~17-/h 1
going.ito tell us that technologically Shoreham will be 2
safe and sound.for 30 years.
H 3
s.
4 5
,e 6'
7 i
8 9
n 10 4
f 11 1
l' i
12 13 i
14 j
I 1
15 4.
1 i.
16 I
I l
i
=
l l
17 e
i 18 I
i to a
t3 h.
.go b-21 i
g-I i
2 4 --
22 1
23
{
?.
24 t
d r
I 1
25 P
t 4
r 1
k
...,____..a__..____....,,____.
16,505 l-Suew You are not going to tell us that technologically j
2 Shoreham will be safe and sound for 30 years.
If today, 3
someone offered LILCO 16.1 billion dollars -- that's the 4
figure they assessed at the Nassau Commission on a take-over 5
as their worth -- management for LILCO would walk away from 6
Shoreham without caring one iota whether it opened or not.
7 They are perfectly willing to let the ratepayers pay and pay and pay, one way or the other.
8 9
Suffolk County and Smith Barney, as its accomplish, 10 ffered LILCO 7.3 billion dollars, and LILCO's greedy paws ij were somewhat tempted to reach.
Unfortunately, the bill was found unconstitutional.
12 LILCO's net worth is around 2 to 3 -- 2 and a half 13 ja billion dollars, and nearly 5 billion of that 7.3 billion 15 is cither debt to its creditors or dividends to preferred 16 stockholders.
LILCO figures that it will get more in a j7 hostile take-over in the court, demanding replacement cost 18 less depreciation than its real value, original cost less 1
i 19 depreciation.
20 And, of course, if it opens then they don't even have to deal with the court.
They automatically get their 21 return.
22 23 If Shoreham opens, ratepayers get stuck with the 24 cost.
That's the bottom line.
Regardless of that, and having Ace-Feders Reporters, Inc.
25 said that, I will leave you with one important question that
16,506
~~/ '7-2-SueW 1 you have to answer yourselves.
If Shoreham goes, will you in V
2 Washington and Maryland and the other locations where you 3
live really be safe?
4 Thank you.
5 (Applause.)
6 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Yes.
7 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 8
OF 9
TIM ROBINSON 10 MR. ROBINSON: _ Good evening.
My name is Tim 11 Robinson.
I live in Rocky Point, approximately one mile, 12 as the crow flies, from the power plant.
.-s \\
b 13 I'm not a political person.
I don't -- well, 14 I've never in my life been involved with anything to do with 15 the government, never had a desire.
But, living so close to 16 the power plant and knowing some of the people in the area 17 and hearing so many horror stories of what has gone on there, 18 such as drinking on the job and taking drugs and throwing 19 beer bottles down the cooling pipes, I have gotten very 20 concerned.
21 And, watching the whole procedure of trying to 22 get this plant opened has left me very disappointed in this 23 government which I used to think was a free government.
- And, O(_/
24 I seriously question it at this time.
Ace-Federst Reporters, Inc.
25 I have one question.
If the evacuation plan is in
16,507
[3-SueW 1 so much question, why not have a real evacuation where the 2
people can really participate --
3 (Applause.)
4
-- and prove without a doubt that you can't 5
evacuate this Island even under great conditions.
Even in 6
my normal daily travel to work, the tempers of the people 7
run pretty high and there is a lot of near accidents.
- And, 8
this is all just normal driving that we are all used to.
9 When people have panic and when people are thinking 10 of themselves and concerned about their future, they are 11 going to be a lot more dangerous.
This whole thing with 12 Chernobyl has reminded me of the training we went through in 13 the school, the Civil Defense training in the 60s, where they 14 taught us about building fallout shelters.
I don't think a 15 fallout shelter would do any good in an atomic bomb attack.
16 But, it may be what we have to do to protect our-17 selves from our own power plant.
18 Thank you.
19 (Applause.)
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Yes.
21 22 23 x_j 24 Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16,508 48-4-SueW j
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2'
OF 3
MARY DELAVEKIA MS. DELAVEKIA:
Good evening.
My name is Mary 4
Delavekia.
I live in Holbrook which is about 13 miles from 5
the Shoreham plant.
I am a wife, a mother and a teacher, and 6
I am afraid.
7 Is I'm afraid, and it is a well-informed fear.
t 8
9 not.a fear of worrying about only the media coverage or 10 Political speeches, which are two favorite punching bags LILCC ij uses to' blame the great opposition to Shoreham.
12 It's a fear that is increasing daily for many s
.]
13 reasons.
But, in the interest of time I will discuss the main reason.
Since the Chernobyl accident, in the minds I'm ja 15 certain of.most people, there is no debate as to the~ absurdity 16 of assured safety for the population.
And, so I wonder what 17 is happening.
18 Why are these hearings continuing?
And, most 19 frightening of all, I wonder at our present situation.
We 20 sit here fighting not only LILCO, a private utility, but 21 also our own government.
22 I want to believe that the NRC is here to protect 23 the people, but if that is the case why are we pleading our
, ()
24 case before you?
The facts are already before you and well Ace-Federd Fleporters, Inc.
25 documented.
16.509 5-SueW The vast majority of the people don't want it.
j 2
The County government is against it.
The State government 3
is against it.
Our Congressional representatives are against it.
4 And, all you need do is look at a map or even better to 5
spend several mornings making a drive west on the LIE at rush hour or 25-A at any hour.
All you need do is this to realize 6
first-hand what a ludicrous supposition a feasible evacuation 7
is.
8 In summation, I fear that no one protects us.
I 9
10 fear that what is coming is not an example of our country's 11 democracy but rather an example of the failure of it.
/-.
12 You gentlemen are only three.
You've had a long
)
13 day, and much of what you have heard must sound as if it's 14 a personal attack on you.
Naturally, that would make anyone become defensive.
I tell you now that I know as sure as I sit 15 16 here that it is futile to appeal to you as the NRC Board, but j7 I am not convinced that it is impossible to appeal to you as individual men.
That's why I'm here.
18 pp And, so I do just that.
I ask you to stand up for 20 us, for no better reason than because in your hearts you know that it's right.
21 22 Thank you.
(APP ause.)
l 23 t
\\ ___
24 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will take two more speakers.
Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
16,510 I'7-6-SueW 1 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 2
OF 3
MARIE SALSOR 4
MS. SALSOR:
My name is Marie Salsor, and I live 5
in Brentwood.
I'm a relatively new. resident of Suffolk County.
6 I've lived on Long Island all my life.
7 I feel that the opening of shoreham would represent 8
the total disregard for human life.
I'm in the medical field, 9
and often I wonder if cancer is a money-making tool.
10 The effects of radiation on our population and on 11 the land would signify the spread of something like cancer.
12 And, if Shoreham would open I would have to feel that cancer 13 is, in fact, a money-making tool.
14 I don't know of anyone that is in favor of opening 15 Shoreham.
I would like to live my life to its entirety.
- And, 16 I think every individual here on Long Island works hard enough 17 and builds a life for themselves, and they are entitled to 18 that right and that safety.
19 And, I think the people in Washington should put 20 themselves in our shoes.
You know,- we are the ones that 21 live here on top of a ticking bomb.
22 Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
21 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else who wants to l Ace-Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 be heard?
Please, come forward.
16,511
- 1fJ-SueW 1
SPECTATOR:
Being that you are here -- and many
\\.)
2 people have said this before, this was not well advertised.
3 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We have been here since 9:30 4
this morning and have been going continuously.
5 SPECTATOR:
I realize that.
But, this is not 6
74 percent of the people.
7 JUDGE MARGULIES:
You may speak.
8 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 9
OF 10 MAURY HELBIBINA 11 MR. HELBIBINA:
My name is Maury Helbibina from 12 West Islip.
I just have one question.
13 Why do we have to have a power source that is 14 threatening to our lives?
That's all I want to know.
Why 15 do we have to have that when there are alternatives?
16 (Applause.)
17 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Would the lady who just asked 18 me that question want to make a statement?
19 SPECTATOR:
I still feel --
20 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Well,' step up and you can make 21 your statement.
22 SPECTATOR:
I just feel we have basically one 23 newspaper, large newspaper, on Long Island that managed to Pi N_/
24 stuff it way in the back where nobody -- I work for Avis.
Aco-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 Nobody at Avis even heard of this.
I mean, we are in Suffolk v-7-
i 16,512
.#T^y8-SueW
.1 County.
I.mean, this is supposed to be a public hearing.
(-)
2 I called your office in Washington on Friday.
This 3
is supposed to be a public hearing for public comment.
How 4
can it be when nobody knows it's here?
5 I mean, do you have any power to make that newspaper 6
put it in headlines so the next two people will know?
7 SPECTATOR:
We had the same problem last year and I
8 the year before.
And it is not publicized well enough.
i O
j 9
SPECTATOR:
They tantalize us with headlines to 10 irritate us about LILCO, yet when it comes to the actual 11 hearings we bury th't, because, God forbid, we don't want a
12 the people to go there.
13 JUDGE MARGULIES:
Is there anyone else who wants l
14 to come forward to make a statement?
15 Come forward, please.
}
16 i
17
).
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 f Asefedevel Reporters, Inc.
25
16,513 9S 1
LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT 7
ueW 2
OF 3
FRANK MATTERA 4
MR. MATTERA:
My name is Frank Mattera.
I live in
-5 Lake Ronkonkoma.
As.I understand the rules, or any other 6
nuclear operating power facility should not be granted a 7
license unless the state and local government participate in 8
t he evacuation plan.
9' The State of New York'and the County of Suffolk 10 are not participating in this evacuation plan.
I think it is 11 impossible.
Therefore, I do not even think we should be having 12 this meeting.
'O 13 The gentlemen at the NRC should withdraw the license 14 from LILCO and close the plant down.
15 Thank you.
16 (Applause.)
17 JUDGE MARGULIES:
We will be holding a limited 18 appearance session in Riverhead on Thursday.
Once again, we 19 will start at 9:30 in the morning.and have_ sessions running 20 until 8 o' clock at night in Riverhead, the reason being is 21 the building is only available until 8 p.m.
22 We will also start in Mineola in Nassau County 23 starting at 9:30 a.m. on Friday and run through 9 p.m. on 24 Friday night.
Asm-Fedesel Reporters, Inc.
25 Thank you.
That concludes our session here today.
i a
4 16,514
~
10-SueW j (Whereupon, the hearing is adjourned at 8:55 p.m.,
-2 this same day, to reconvene on Wednesday, September 24, 1986, 4
3 at 9:30 a.m.)
4 5
endddd 6
7 8
9 l
10 11 4
i 12
!O 13 14 15 4
16 17 i
j 18 19 20 21 i
22 1
i 23 1
24 AsafedersA Reporters, Inc.
25 i
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n NO PAGE NUMBER CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSISON in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: S110REllAM NUCLEAR POWER STATION DOCKET NO.:
50-322-OL-5 PLACE:
llauppauge, New York DATE:
Wednesday, September 24, 1986 were held herein appears, and that this is the official transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
(sigt)
)
(TYPED) Mrrett'Jgalsh (sigt)
(TYPED 1 Sue Walsh (sigt)
A M
(TYPED) Mary S ns Official Reporters Reporter's Affiliation O