ML20207K476
| ML20207K476 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 07/23/1986 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8607290436 | |
| Download: ML20207K476 (75) | |
Text
ORIGINAL
~~
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the matter of:-
COMMISSION MEETING Briefing on Status of EEO Programs (Public Meeting)
Docket No.
i l
((
i Location: Washington, D. C.
Date: Wednesday, July 23, 1986 1 - 65 Pages:
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES Court Reporters 8607290436 860723 1625 I St., N.W.
P
.7 PDR Suite 921 Washington, D.C.
20006 (202) 293-3950 J
l e
l 1
D 1 SCLA I MER 2
3 4
5 6
This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the 1
l 7
United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on l
e 7/23/86 in t'he Commission's office at 1717 H Street.
9 N.W.,
Washington, D.C.
The meeting was open to public 10 attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been 11 reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain 1
12 inaccuracies.
13 The transcript is intended solely for general 14 informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.105, it is 15 not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the 16 matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript 17 do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs.
No 18 pleading or other paper may be filed with the. Commission in 19 any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement 20 or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may 21 authorire.
22 23 l
24 25
i 1
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA l
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
3 4
Briefing on Status of EEO Programs 5
{
6 PUBLIC MEETING 7
j i
8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9
Room 1130 i
10 1717 H Street, Northwest 11 Washington, D.C.
12 13 Wednesday, July 23, 1986 14 15 The commission met in public session, pursuant to 16 notice, at 9:15 a.m., the Honorable LANDO W.
ZECH, JR.,
17 Chairman of the Commission, presiding.
18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
19 LANDO W.
ZECH, JR.,
Chairman of the Commission 20 THOMAS M. ROBERTS, Member of the Commission 21 JAMES K. ASSELSTINE, Member of the Commission 22 FREDERICK M. BERNTHAL, Member of the Commission 23 24 25 1
?
2 1
STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT COMMISSION TABLE:
2 i
(
3 W. PARLER 4
V. STELLO 5
P. NORRY 6
E. TUCKER 7
N. KADAMBI 8
L. DEWEY 9
C.
SIEGEL 10 E. ALLEN 11 l
n i
12 AUDIENCE SPEAKERS:
13 14 J. MESTRE 15 J. McDERMOTT 16 P. RATHBUN 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
?
?
s 3
1 PROCEEDINGS 2
[9:15 a.m.]
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
I 4
4 I apologize for the delay.
5 This morning we are holding our semi-annual briefing k
6 on the status of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's EEO 7
program.
I'm glad we can finally hold this meeting.
I know 8
we have postponed it a number of times, mainly due to 1
9 conflicts with congressional hearings.
g 4
10 As far as I'm concerned, this agency's most valuable 4
11 resource is its people.
Some of you have heard me say that 12 before, and I mean it.
I recently wrote a letter to the f
13 Office of Directors and Regional Administrators emphasizing
}
14 that fact and stressing that all of us should do our best to 15 use this valuable resource, our people, in the best possible 16 manner.
17 Our Equal Employment Opportunity and Equal 18 Employment measures to allow our employees, people who are s
19 serving their country, to do their best and participate in our j
20 agency is extremely important, and I think that this meeting this morning should be, hopefully, constructive and helpful to 21 allow us to receive the benefits of the fine people we have 22 working for our agency, all the people, men, women, every 23 24 race, color and creed.
We are a cross-section of America and l
25 we should respect that.
i i
i 4
1 Our country is founded on justice and equality, and 2
although there have been imperfections in our government over 3
the years, those are sound principles that our founding 4
fathers brought forth and they are principles that we are 5
still trying to live up to today.
We should continue striving 6
for that, recognizing that there is a ways to go, but I think 7
we have made great strides in our country from many, many 8
years ago to today.
That doesn't mean there is not room for 9
improvement, in my judgment, but I think we should try to be 10 constructive about our people because they are our greatest 11 resource.
12 Let me just say that I have to leave at 10:30.
I 13 have an appointment I have to keep.
I regret that I won't be 14 able to stay longer.
I would hope that we could conclude the 15 meeting by 10:30; if not, I will ask Commissioner Roberts to 16 take over for me, but I would, frankly, like to be here to 17 conclude it so I would ask that you keep your remarks to the 18 point and brief and constructive, and let the Commissioners 19 have time to ask the questions that I know we will want to 20 ask.
21 With that, do my fellow commissioners have any 22 opening remarks before we begin?
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Just one additional 24 comment.
I agree very much with the comments you made,
)
l 25 Lando.
I know that we gave the staff a number of fairly 1
t 5
5 1
significant challenges after the last meeting on this 2
subject.
The Staff Requirements Memo, I think, laid out a 3
number of new initiatives that we wanted to see.
I am 4
particularly interested in hearing from the advisory 5
committees and from the staff on how we are doing in those 6
things and whether it is making a difference: are we moving 7
ahead in making some progress in this area?
8 I know the staff has been very busy, and I commend 9
them for the work they have been doing on these items, and 10 that is one area I would be particularly interested in hearing 11 about.
12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I agree with that.
I would like to 13 hear that, too.
i 14 Mr. Stello, would you begin, please?
I 15 MR. STELLO:
Thank you.
16 It is certainly a pleasure for me to have an 17 opportunity to come and tell you what we are doing, about the 18 agency's accomplishments in this area.
It is a very, very 19 important area. I have been with the agency just about 20 20 years and I certainly have seen a steady progress over that 21 period of time, and it is pleasing to see that.
I think even 22 today, in light of our relative inability to continue to hire, 23 as our staffing levels decrease we continue to show that we 24 are, in fact, continuing to have an improvement in our 25 programs.
t 6
1 We have today with us, who are going to tell you 2
about the progress we have made, Pat Norry, the Director of 3
the Office of Administration, on my right; Ed Tucker, the 4
Manager of the Civil Rights Programs; and Prasad Kadambi, Lee 5
Dewey, Cherie Siegel and Elmo Allen, representing the various 6
committees, who will also tell you what their views are in 7
terms of problems we have and progress we have made.
)
8 There is one area that I think it is important to 9
tell you of a problem that I see to get that out front first, 10 and that is that we did a comprehensive study of the appraisal 11 system in the agency and we have found a disparity between the i
12 minorities and non-minorities.
I intend to do something about 13 that and have issued a memo to the office directors asking 14 them to look into their particular areas to determine if there l
15 is a real problem in this particular area, and if so, what do 16 they recommend we do about it.
j 17 In the Commission level offices, as you will hear, 18 there are also some problems there that you may need to look 19 at, and I think together we need to truly understand if this 20 is a problem and what we need to do to resolve it.
21 With that, let me then turn to the briefing itself.
l 22 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Before you go on with that, I 23 presume that you are going to give the Commission the results 2
24 of your request to look into this matter with your
)
25 recommendations for any changes that might be necessary.
i J
't 7
1 MR. STELLO:
Yes.
The Commission will get the 2
information and data that suggest the problem this morning.
3 When I get back the recommendations, I intend to come to the 4
Commission and tell them what I intend to do about it, yes.
i 5
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Fine.
Thank you.
l 6
MR. STELLO:
With that, I guess we will just start i
7 with Mr. Tucker and have him begin by briefly summarizing the 8
EEO status.
9 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right.
Thank you.
10 MR. TUCKER:
Thank you, Mr. Stello.
11 During the first two quarters of the fiscal year, 12 there have been significant changes in the numbers and 13 percentages of minorities and women in the overall work force 14 and at GS-11 and above.
The first bar chart in the handout i
15 shows that from the period September 1985 to April 1986, d
16 minorities increased from 15.8 percent to 16.6 percent of the 17 full-time permanent staff, and women increased from 31.8 18 percent to 32.5.porcent.
i 19 The second chart shows that for the same time period 20 for GS-ll and above, minorities increased from 11.6 percent to 21 12 percent, and women from 13.7 percent to 14.3 percent.
22 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
This is just in the past year.
Two 23 years, I guess. No, the past year.
l 24 MR. TUCKER:
The first two quarters of the fiscal 25 year.
s g
1 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
The first two quarters.
But your 2
chart does indicate over the past ten years, I guess, that you 3
are showing us figures, that they do show at least i
4 improvement, steady improvement.
l 5
MR. TUCKER:
Consistent.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Which is something I think we should 7
note.
d i
8 Go ahead, please.
9 MR. TUCKER:
The next chart shows the latest b
10 availability data obtained from Oak Ridge associated i
11 universities concerning minorities and women in the technical
)
)
12 occupations for which we established hiring goals.
The i
13 percentages in brackets are the actual on-board strengths of l
I 14 these various groups, and the number on top, of course, is the i
15 availability data that has been generated by Oak Ridge 16 associated universities.
s t
17 These are weighted percentages taking into account 18 25 percent of the new hires will be at the entry level.
This 19 data will be used in preparing the next multi-year affirmative 20 action plan which will be submitted to the Equal Employment 1
21 Opportunity Commission in September 1987.
This will be the 22 second multi-year affirmative action plan that the EEOC has 23 instituted.
24 The fiscal year 1986 affirmative action plan used i
25 oak Ridge availability data on workers with four years of i
,.7 m.m--
~_, _- -
r
P 9
1 experience since this data was not available until February
)
2 of this year.
That is the data that we have in this chart on 3
availability that you are looking at now.
{
4 In most cases, the availability remains the same 5
whether it is based solely on experienced workers or 25 6
percent graduates factored in, except in the case of white 7
women in all technical occupations and Asian men in nuclear 8
engineering and health physics.
9 When you factor in 25 percent recent college 10 graduates for white women, the percentage availability 11 increases.
For nuclear ~ engineering, if you are talking about 12 experienced workers, it is 1.1 percent for white women, and it
)
13 has increased to 2.6 percent if you factor in 25 percent j
14 recent college graduates.
For health physics, it is 4.4 15 percent just using the figure of experienced workers, and it 16 increases to 15.9 percent if you factor in the 25 percent.
So 17 there is a significant increase when you factor in recent i
18 college graduates as far as white females are concerned.
19 As far as Asian men are concerned, if you use the 20 experienced workers, say, in nuclear engineering, it is 7.6 21 percent.
If you factor in recent college graduates, it drops 22 to 3.3 percent.
And the same is true for health physics.
23 Just using experienced workers, it is 3.0 percent, and it 24 drops to.7 percent with the recent college graduates factored 25 in.
4 t
10 1
This is probably because of problems associated with 2
citizenship, recent college graduates who have fewer citizens, 3
as far as Asian males are concerned.
4 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Does that mean that what 5
we are seeing is more women going into these fields now and
]
6 being graduated within the past year or two?
2 7
MR. TUCKER:
That is true.
8 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
So that over the next few i
9 years what we will see is a continuing increase in the 10 available pool of women in these various occupations.
11 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
But I gather Asian males 13 are going down a bit.
j 14 MR. TUCKER:
Well, the overall percentages -- it 15 will go down as far as when you factor in recent college j
16 graduates.
17 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
So the pool is growing.
18 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
What year data did Oak 1
20 Ridge use?
Is that 1985 data?
Is that the time period they 21 were looking at, or is it older?
22 MR. TUCKER:
I think it was 1985 data.
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
1985 or not?
I see 24 somebody shaking --
i 25 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I thought it was 1980,
-~
. ~. _. _ _ _
e 11 1
wasn't it?
2 MR. MESTRE:
1984 post-census data.
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Will you identify yourself, please, j
4 for the recorder?
Step up to the microphone, please.
Thank 5
you.
6 MR. MESTRE:
George Mestre from the Civil Rights i
7 Program.
It is 1984 post-1980 census data.
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE':
Okay.
So in terms of that I
10 increasing pool, what we are seeing now is some of those new 11 people now have two years work experience, or we should assume 12 that, shouldn't we?
13 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
So what we are seeing is a l
l 15 growing pool of people that would be available in these areas,
)
16 so as we set our goals, those goals should also be going up, f
17 on the recognition that the pool has been growing for two 18 years and we expect it to continue to grow.
Is that fair?
1 19 MR. TUCKER:
That is true.
4 20 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Okay.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Let me just make a point of format.
1 22 This slide is very good.
It is very helpful.
And this is 23 mostly for Mr. Stello as far as my personal views are 24 concerned.
I like to see trends.
The chart before that, you 25 can just follow it pretty carefully, pretty easily.
At a 4
.n,,,-_,.-n,-
n--,n,.
o 12 l
1 glance you can see what is going on.
In this chart here, you 2
are looking at all these numbers, and Mr. Tucker's explanation 3
was very good, but if you showed us a trend chart, it would be 4
helpful, at least to me.
I like trend charts, just so you 5
will know that.
Please pass it to your other people.
My 6
experience has shown me that it is easier for us at our level 7
to follow a trend chart than it is to follow a bunch of 8
statistics.
9 Go ahead, please.
10 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
I agree with that.
11 One other quick question.
The 75 percent, 25 j
12 percent weighting.
I take it that we basically use that as 13 sort of a judgmental ground rule to try and attract the kind 14 of people that we need?
Is that intended to reflect this i
15 notion that what we tend to do is have a mix of looking for 16 experienced people as well as new hires, people straight out 17 of school that we would then train?
Is that the idea here?
18 MS. NORRY:
We set a goal of trying to get 25 19 percent of our hiring at the entry level.
20 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Entry level?
21 MS. NORRY:
Serving two purposes: one, to further 22 our EEO objectives, hopefully, and another to try to bring the 23 grade levels down somewhat and emphasize entry levels.
So 24 that reflects that goal that was established.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
And obviously, given the
13 j
1 size of the pools, there are more people, women and 2
minorities, available at the lower levels because you are f
3 seeing more graduates in those areas, so the extent to which r
4 we can greater emphasize bringing in people at those lower 5
grade levels, those entry level kinds of positions, the more 6
opportunities we have to increase the number of women and 7
minorities.
8 MR. STELLO:
Let me add that also conflicts with the 9
desires of the Commission to get experienced people, i
10 especially people with commercial experience, into the
.i 11 agency.
So you recognize you have a conflicting requirement.
i 12 They are incompatible.
We are trying to develop a balance. It i
13 is not easy.
14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Right.
15 MR. STELLO:
I am very, very nervous about trying to l
16 hire more and more entry level people and then asking at the 17 same time to get higher and higher productivity.
They are 1
18 inconsistent.
19 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
But you need to do both, or try to
\\
5 l
l 20 do both.
You have to have a recruitment program that does
)
21 reflect the market, if you will, and then you could, of l
22 course, have another program that does, indeed, go for career l
23 experienced people.
So it is a challenge, but we need to i
24 focus on both, in my judgment.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
I agree.
i i
_ ~ - _ -. _.. _. ~ _--- _. _ -.,.,. _ _ -.___. _
14 1
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Will you proceed, please?
2 MR. TUCKER:
Another point, too, is that we have to i
3 bear in mind that we are dealing with very low percentages of j
4 availabilities of minorities in these various occupations we 5
are talking about.
6 The next chart shows the actual EEO hiring goals for i
7 fiscal year 1986.
Unfortunately, at this point we have not 8
achieved any of these hiring goals.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
None?
10 MR. TUCKER:
None of them.
I know that --
11 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
They are pretty modest in 12 themselves.
I 13 MR. TUCKER:
That's true, but we are talking about, 14 in the hiring goals, as you can see, you are talking about 15 Black males, Black females, Hispanic males, Asian males, and i
16 as you can see from the availability data, the availability 17 just is not that high.
That might be a contributing factor in 18 terms of the difficulties in achieving the goals.
19 Another point that should be focused on is the fact 20 that these hiring goals were not distributed to the office 21 directors until January of this year.
That is the normal 22 custom.
We normally achieve at least -- well, for instance, 23 last year, last fiscal year, 56 percent of the hires were 24 women and minorities, and in fiscal year 1984, 53 percent were 25 minorities and women.
So we are still hopeful that we will be
15 1
able to achieve those goals by -
i 2
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Are we putting sufficient effort 3
towards achieving these goals, in your judgment?
4 MR. TUCKER:
I would think so in terms of the i
5 college recruitment effort and all.
I would defer more to --
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I would encourage Mr. Stello to take 7
a good look at this and make sure we are putting forth the 8
effort we need to achieve these goals.
It looks to me like we 9
haven't achieved any of them so far.
I recognize that we have 1
10 a ways to go in fiscal year 1986, but we are running out of 11 time.
It perhaps might take some encouragement on your part 4
i 12 to remind people that these goals are real and to make every 13 effort they can to meet them.
i f
14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
I agree with that.
I 15 understand the problem with nuclear physicists and health i
16 physicists as well, but you have an admin slot, you have two 17 attorney positions.
18 MS. NORRY:
Let me just say about the admin slot, 19 that I am not allowing my Director of Security to hire 20 anybody, because I can't afford it.
I don't have the staffing l
21 levels.
)
22 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
That is a real problem, too.
We 23 have an institutional impediment to meeting the goals.
i 24 MR. STELLO:
Plus you recognize that the l
i j
25 reorganizations that we have had, we are trying to do our best
16 1
to place all the people that we have, which also then stems 1
2 hiring.
When you are trying to make those balances, and we 3
are doing the best we can, you clearly have to do it within 4
the constraints of all this.
5 MS. NORRY:
This past year, we had the NRR 6
placements and the OCD placements.
j i
]
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
We recognize those challenges.
We 8
really do.
Also, I think you should at least keep focusing on J
I l
9 these goals and where you can, fit them into our 10 administrative restrictions that we have.
Just do the best 11 you can.
I just think it is worth emphasizing, perhaps.
i 12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Yes.
It is kind of 13 demoralizing to the program, I think, to set very modest goals
)
14 and then six months later, at virtually the end of the fiscal j
15 year, basically say, even though they were very modest goals, 16 we weren't able to meet even a single one of them.
17 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
We ought to make a good effort.
18 Proceed.
19 MR. TUCKER:
Since the Commission did indicate 20 interest in the staff increase and the participation rate 21 of minorities and women of GS-13 and above, we have prepared 22 the next three charts which provides information on the 23 distribution of minorities and women at GS-13 through GS-18.
24 It shows that just about 2,000 of the staff is at 25 GS-13 to GS-18; 80 percent of those are white males; 8.5
a 17 s
1 percent are white females.
This is the third chart in that series that I am looking at now.
Black males, 3.4 percent; 2
3 black females, 1.4 percent; Hispanic males, 1.0 percent; 4
Hispanic females,
.2 percent; Asian Pacific Islander males, 5
4.7; females,
.5 percent.
Alaskan and American Indian,
.5 6
percent for males and.05 percent for females.
7 I think it is important to note that at GS-13 and
(
8
'abuee, the overall staff increased by 6 percent; women I
increased by 7 percent; minorities by 12 percent.
This is for 9
10 the period February, 1985 through March, 1986.
11 There has been considerable change as far as l
12 participation of GS-13 and above.
I 13 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Some progress in this area.
l 14 MR. TUCKER:
Exactly.
Hopefully, with these new 15 strategies that have been developed, we will continue to have 16 those increases.
17 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Fine.
18 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Has most of that progress 19 been achieved by using the resources that we now have, by 20 encouraging and training and developing and promoting our 21 pecple fron within as opposed to bringing people in from 22 outside?
23 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
I have some information on that 24 for later on.
-25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
It strikes me particularly 1
i
_________m
/
18 1
in view of the other constraints we are under, the modest 2
hiring goals and our difficulties there, that is where we have 3
to focus a lot of attention, on using the valuable resources j
4 that we now have.
5 MR. TUCKE3:
That's right.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I agree with that, too.
7 MR. TUCKER:
The next chart provides some f
8 information on historical data as far as the SES Candidate 9
Development Program.
It gives the totals and the number of 10 women and minorities, 1980 through 1985, in those three
(
11 programs.
All of the women and minorities that were accepted f
12 into the candidate Development Program have been placed in SES
/
13 positions.
.i 14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
When do you select the 1
15 next group for the SES Candidate Development Program?
16 MS. NORRY:
We haven't established a schedule for 17 that yet.
18 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Do you set targets when 19 you establish that group, in terms of women and minority 20 participation or not?
21 MS. NORRY:
We place a great deal of emphasis in our 22 messages to the offices and to the individuals, that we are 23 seeking qualified wcmen and minority candidates.
We do not l
24 set particular goals for different groups.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
It strikes me that whether
i 19 1
you set goals or'not, at least given the fact that we have i
2 been able to place all the women and minorities --
3 MS. NORRY:
It is a major area of emphasis.
4 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Let me ask one question back 5
on this issue of our hiring goals.
One or two meetings ago 6
maybe, we noted that we were recruiting a rather limited group i
^
7 from colleges and universities and that list was considerably i
8 expanded, I think.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Lando had a number of 10 suggestions for increasing that..i 11 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Yes.
I think all of us j
j 12 tossed in numbers or institutions that wara not on the list.
j 13 j
Are we doing that now?
Are we getting out there?
l 14 Have you talked to the people that are going out on the I
15 recruiting to get a sense of what is going on out there?
Is 16 the competition so stiff or a small number of minorities?
Is 17 that the problem?
What is happening out there?
We are going 1
18 to more and bigger institutions and I think more minority j
19 institutions than we used to.
3 h
20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Could we have someone address that?
{
21 MS. NORRY:
I would like to ask Jim McDermott.
22 MR. McDERMOTT:
I looked at the expanded list of 23 colleges we went to and I got a report on how we did.
We went 24 to a lot more schools.
We didn't get appreciably more hire's 25 but we established more contacts.
One of the concerns we had i
.-..~.,,.c..._.-.,_.-,
i 20 1
was not to go out there with a lot of promises and not deliver 2
anything.
It spoils our relationships with the faculties.
\\
3 This year, with the freeze, we cut back by about 4
half our projected list of schools.
We still went to a number 5
of job fairs.
They were almost exclusively with one or two 6
exceptions focused at schools that are traditionally minority 7
schools or that have a high percentage of minority candidates.
j 8
COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
High percentage, if I may 9
say, at a school like Michigan State, it is just big so you j
10 are going to have a lot of minorities.
11 MR. McDERMOTT:
We went to Michigan State because we 1
12 figured it was a good target.
We are concerned.
The pool is i
13 growing was mentioned.
There is a surge in the pool right now 14 but downstream, it looks like the pool is going to shrink 15 again.
The grades are off by 25 percent, enrollments, in 16 health physics.
They are going down, not so sharply, but 17 going down in nuclear engineering.
That's a problem.
18 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Are the minority and women 19 candidates in those areas going down proportionately or are 20 they staying up proportionately?
21 MR. McDERMOTT:
I don't know.
With regard to the 22 women, we can only conclude that the women are holding their 23 own better, they are not declining proportionately.
They are 24 doing better.
The difficdlty of course is the recruiting edge 25 that the private sector has.
They have more money up front,
21 1
more benefits up front, and that makes it difficult.
2 We are exploring some techniques to at least 3
neutralize some of that.
My favorite is with the help of the 4
program offices, make an offer on the spot, direct hiring 5
authority right on the spot.
It is one of the things that 6
might help us.
If allowed, we intend to push that very hard.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
You are right.
That shows that you 8
are serious about it and you have an ability to make a 9
commitment.
10 MR. McDERMOTT:
We learned that through the legal 11 intern program in the past, and for that reason we said, make 12 them an offer, we will catch up with the paperwork.
13 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
14 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I would just make the 15 comment that it may not be a waste of time to make the trip to 16 these' schools.
You don't have to make promises you can't 17 keep.
I think appearing there and explaining the' 18 circumstancos that you can't hire but explaining under what 19 circumstances that could change, my experience and 20 recollection is the people who are there on a systematic basis 21 do tend to maintain the contacts and representation.
22 MR. McDERMOTT:
We are doing that.
We are doing 23 show the flag visits even.
24 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I realize there are a lot of 25 other things you have to do.
I I
22 1
MR. TUCKER:
Another factor that militates against 1
2 our accomplishing that is of course the security clearance.
4 i
3 Even if you do make an offer, you still can't make a firm j
4 offer until after a person is cleared.
5 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Let's proceed, please.
I would like j
6 to hear from the others, if I possibly can, while I am able to 8
7 stay here today.
Thank you.
i 8
MR. TUCKER:
The last chart that I have concerns the l
1 9
requirement that we have as a result of an amendment to the i
l 10 Reorganization Act which requires quarterly reports to 11 Congress on hires and promotions of minorities and women at 12 GS-11 and above.
This is a report on the first two quarters 13 of the fiscal year.
14 This refers basically to Commissioner Asselstine's 15 question in terms of how we are accomplishing the increases.
16 You can see that basically we are accomplishing that by 17 promotions of minorities and women.
I 18 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
In terms of SES positions, j
-f 19 how many SES positions changed hands say over the past six l
20 months, filled by someone else, either from within the SES or i
21 outside it?
Do you know?
22 MR. Ti. ICKER:
I think the current number is 190.
Ten 23 of those are minorities and six are women.
This is down from 24 202 total that we had in fiscal 1985.
I don't know how many i
25 positions we filled.
(
23 1
MR. STELLO:
The answer is we don't know.
2 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Let me know.
I would be 3
interested in knowing when they changed hands, how many were 4
filled by either a woman or a minority employee.
5 MR. STELLO:
We will provide you with the 6
information.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Supply it to all the Commissioners, 8
would you, please.
9 MR. STELLO:
Yes.
10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Proceed.
11 MR. TUCKER:
That is all I have.
l 12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
13 MS. NORRY:
I am going to briefly summarize the I
14 responses that were made to the staff requirements memorandum 15 which resulted from the last briefing.
16 The information on these various topics has been 17 provided to you over the past few months.
Let me just 18 summarize it.
19 The first category is the efforts to increase 20 minorities and women at 13 and above.
We were asked to 21 specifically look at what could be done there.
We provided a 22 report which stressed progress that has been made and stressed 23 a couple of new initiatives that we were planning to pursue.
24 In terms of progress that has been made, I think it 25 is noteworthy that in 1986 so far, we have established 14 new
l-24 1
upward mobility positions.
We had a goal of 15, which we 2
thought was a very ambitious goal, given hiring cutbacks and 3
so forth.
I think that has bean a very good trend that we 4
were able to establish that many upward mobility positions in 5
these tough times.
6 I would like to especially note that the Regions and 7
NRR in addition to my office were extremely cooperative in 8
establishing these positions.
9 In addition, other indicators of progress are that 10 in 1985, fiscal 1985, 56 percent pf the promotions that were 11 made in fiscal 1985 went to women and 15 percent went to 12 minorities.
13 With respect to new initiatives, the principal new 14 initiative which we have proposed is a rotational program.
15 What this would provide is that through the use of lateral 16 reassignments and details, we would take people out of where 17 they may be sitting in a corner somewhere and not really 18 having a chance to show their talents and rotate them to 19 different offices for periods of time to do specific tasks, 20 get them more visible, get them more in the front of 21 management so that they will have a chance to show what they 22 can do.
23 We have set a goal of five positions in fiscal 24 1987.
I hope we are able to exceed that.
I think five is a 25 very modest number.
I hope we can do better than that.
We
25 1
are certainly going to push very hard to do better than that.
2 We have already put out an announcement.
EDO put 3
out an announcement in June that we were going to have this.
4 It is aimed at women and minorities particularly, grade 13 5
through 15, although of course it is open to everyone.
6 The other thing is that we have encouraged through 7
announcements and through personal contacts more networking by S
people who are on staff to get out there and encourage through 9
their contacts outside, qualified people including women and 10 minorities to come in and seek employment with the NRC.
11 That is a brief summary of what we have done on 12 increasing minorities and women at 13 and above.
13 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Two quick points.
On the 14 first one, the rotation, I think that is a good idea, but I 15 hope that what you are doing is really targeting something 16 specific and very useful and productive for those people to 17 do.
18 MS. NORRY:
It won't work if we don't.
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Right.
Rotational 20 assignments just in and of themselves are tough.
They have to 21 have something worthwhile and good to do.
22 MS. NORRY:
We intend to provide a lot of central 23 management in this program and make sure those positions are l
24 set up in such a way that they accomplish that.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
The third item you had
26 1
focusing attention on those offices which aren't doing very 2
well, where participation is low.
You talked about setting 3
higher goals.
Just a suggestion, I hope you are doing more 4
than just setting higher goals.
If you have an office that is 5
not doing very well now, you set higher goals and they don't 6
do any better in meeting those, I hope what is happening is 7
their folks are getting involved in those offices.
They are 8
counseling.
They are getting involved with the management 9
with what is going on there, to try and tackle those problem 10 areas and bring about some real improvement rather than just 11 sitting back and saying, they haven't done well in the past 12 and we will set higher goals.
That doesn't work.
I 13 MS. NORRY:
The numbers will not do it for you; 14 yes.
I agree.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I think we have to be a little i
16 careful about goal setting because we don't want to be i
i 17 discriminating in a negative sort of way against anybody.
As 18 you pointed out earlier, Pat, we certainly want to emphasize 19 the opportunity for minorities and women also, but we also 20 think who is the best qualified and encourage minorities to 21 advance and so forth.
I think we have to be careful because 22 we are trying to give true opportunity to everyone.
23 MS. NORRY:
What we are trying to do, I think, 24 Mr. Chairman, is to make sure that everyone, including 25 minorities and women, are put in the best positions so that w -,,.
e--,
y a
+
j 27 1
they can be the best qualified for the job.
2 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
That is right.
All right.
3 MS. NORRY:
The next requirement that was in the 4
Staff's requirements memo is the long-range human resources 5
planning, which we have begun.
An outline has been 6
developed.
It's intended to dovetail with the agency's 7
five-year planning effert, and we are working with the people 8
who are focusing on that.
It's going to focus on what the 9
projected agency workload admission will be down the pike, 10 what skill levels will be needed,. what the projections are for 11 those skill levels, what we may need to do in terms of 12 specialized targeted recruiting to hit those skill levels, j
i 13 what we may need to do in terms of training to make sure we I
14 have the appropriate mix of skills when the time comes.
That 15 is underway.
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Okay.
17 MS. NORRY:
The next topic in the EEO element for 18 appraisal forms.
I think I simply should say on that, that is 19 in place.
Every supervisory position, as a part of their 20 management appraisal portion -- management portion of their 21 appraisal is held accountable for EEO performance.
22 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Have the first ones of i
23 those been done?
SES has been built into the process for a 24 little while, but for all managers now, have the first enes of 25 those been done yet or not?
28 1
MS. NORRY:
Yes, I believe so.
It's been in there, 2
so that we have gone through that.
3 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
What do they show in terms 4
of performance, say, by -- both by the individuals and by 5
various offices in the agency?
What kind of range of 6
performance is there?
7 MR. McDERMOTT:
Do you mean what kind of ratings j
8 have they gotten?
We haven't looked at them to see, you know, 9
how -- we haven't done -- I'd have to say supervisors have 10 been rated "how" on this.
11 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
It might be useful to do 12 that as a way to try and identify those areas that are
(
13 performing very, very well and also those areas that fall at 14 the other end of the scale, both individuals and offices that i
15 are performing very well in this area.
I 16 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I don't understand.
17 MS. NORRY:
In terms of their specific -- like a 18 manager had as his EEO element to do a certain number of 19 hiring or training and --
20 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Well, I thought the idea 21 was, first we'd get away from just setting numbers for 22 hiring.
The idea was to provide an overall evaluation of how 23 this supervisor did --
24 MS. NORRY:
Right.
There's a lot more to it.
i 25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
-- in carrying out his EEO d
29 I
i 1
or her EEO responsibilities.
)
2 MS. NORRY:
Right.
It's supposed to trickle down
]
3 from the Office Director, who has a plan, and down to the 4
different levels.
(
5 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
And I hope what we'll do 6
is use that as a tool to focus attention where it's needed, 7
both in terms of individuals and in terms of.particular j
8 offices.
If there are some individuals who just aren't 9
performing well at all -- I hope again that Ed and Bill and 10 Era are focusing again on those individuals, and 'if there are 11 offices where you see a pattern of poor performance, that they
]
12 are really zeroing in on those as well to bring those up to an j
13 acceptable level.
l 14 MS. NORRY:
Office Directors are required to report 1
15 to Bill Kerr on a quarterly basis how they're doing, and they, i
16 then, must, of course, hold their subordinates accountable for i
17 the portions of that that they have to report on.
So there is 18 that trickle-down thing.
We have not looked at individual 19 appraisals to get at that, but we can certainly look at it.
20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I'd.just like to look at that that 21 should be looked at with a considerable judgment factor, 22 because, as point out, some of the numbers we're dealing with 23 are very small.
There are challenges put en by our own 24 administrative policies, plus other challenges of realities in 1
25 our society.
So I think judgment must enter into this, but
30 1
certainly it should be a factor that should be brought to the 2
attention of the senior management, and encouragement should 3
be given, but I think it should be tempered with a good deal 4
of judgment.
5 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Sure.
6 MS. NORRY:
Okay.
The next item is the analysis of 7
performance appraisal trends.
I believe you have the charts.
8 The first chart shows that basically the escalation 9
of performance ratings has continued, so that now 85 percent 10 of employees are rated either excellent or outstanding.
In 11 fact, ten offices rated 50 percent or more of their employees 12 as outstanding.
13 I think we have a problem.
I don't think we're 14 using the " outstanding" rating in a way that really tells us 15 who is outstanding, and we have to do something about that.
16 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I agree.
17 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
How many offices had over 50 18 percent outstanding?
19 MS. NORRY:
Ten offices had 50 percent or more of 20 their employees as outstanding.
You know, that's just crazy, 21 and it indicates that the standards are not being applied in a 22 way which is realistic or makes sense.
So we have to look at 23 that.
24 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Uell, let me just say here, too, 25 that, you know, I've been involved in this kind of thing for a
31 1
long, long time, and I think you have to be very careful about 2
this matter.
3 There is a tendency over time with a certain marking 4
of appraisal forms to increase performance towards the high 5
side.
That's a very realistic tendency.
It happens in all 6
6 agencies.
I 7
MS. NORRY:
It happens everywhere, yes.
(
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
It happens in other organizations.
l 9
That's strictly the tendency.
10 And so I don't know that we're much different from 11 other agencies.
It would be interesting to look and see.
On
]
12 the other hand, I think it's important that we recognize it, j
13 although we are marking our people perhaps higher than we I
14 should.
We've got a lot of outstanding people, in my view.
15 MS. NORRY:
Yes.
i 16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And in order to -- and we should not 17 just decide, well, we're not going to do this, all of a sudden 18 change, and instead of outstanding, everybody's going to be 19 excellent, and only two percent are going to be outstanding.
20 I submit that's completely wrong.
21 MS. NORRY:
Right.
22 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
We have a lot of outstanding people.
23 MS. NORRY:
It would be wrong to establish specific 24 percentages.
25 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Yes, because they're in a sense
32 1
competing with other agencies of the Government, as well as 2
our own agency, and I think that -- sure, I would agree that 3
it sounds like it's a bit high to me.
On the other hand, we 4
only have three categories of " satisfactory," I think, 5
" excellent" and " outstanding;" is it not?
6 MS. NORRY:
Outstanding, excellent, fully 7
successful, then below that is minimally successful, but --
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Say it again.
Outstanding, 9
excellent, 10 MS. NORRY:
Fully successful.
11 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Well, that's what I mean.
We have 12 three categories of satisfactory, fully successful or above 13 MS. NORRY:
Right.
14 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And therefore, I guess you could say 15 arbitrarily, well, we ought to have a third in each category.
16 To me, that does not make sense.
I think we probably should 17 have more in the upper two categories.
I'd certainly hope we 18 would in this very professional and technical agency we have 19 with an awful lot of dedicated people.
20 So what I'm saying is, I think we would expect a 21 little bit higher than what you might put on a linear chart 22 So I don't know if 85 percent is too high.
It 23 sounds like it's kind of high.
But if you think it might be 24 66 2/3 percent, if we were rather arbitrary, well, what it 25 should it be?
I don't know.
It probably shouldn't be 100
33 i
1 percent.
But to me, 85 -- I'm not as alarmed, I guess, at 85 2
percent as others would be.
I think we should have 3
outstanding people in our organization.
If we don't, then 4
we've got real problems.
5 So my view is that it's certainly something we i
6 should be aware of, but it doesn't alarm me quite so much.
l 7
I'd be rather disappointed if we didn't have a reasonably high 8
number of outstanding people.
9 So I think again, we have to temper this with 10 judgment.
It's very important that we not be arbitrary and 11 try to be a linear, straight-line type formula.
I think we 12 should recognize that in our agency we should expect people to l
13
-- we have a lot of demands on them.
They perform pretty 14 well, as far as I'm concerned.
We really should expect, 15 perhaps, a little higher marking than just the average.
16 So those are my views.
I think we have to exercise 17 judgment.
18 MR. STELLO:
I think the only concern I would i
19 express is, if you look clearly, you can see the trends, j
i 20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And again, I agree with that.
Maybe 1
1 21 we need a new marking form.
The only solution I've seen to 22 this problem is, you've got to start over again.
23 MS. NORRY:
Throw it all out, and start all over 24 again.
i 25 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Throw it all out and get a new l
34 l
1 form.
Now it's not a very good solution, but that's the only j
i 2
way I've ever found out, that you start over again and get the l
i i
3 marking down a little bit, and then you keep that for four or l
i 4
five years, and then you get a new one.
l t
5 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I thought these were GSA 6
forms.
I didn't know we had that option.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Well, I don't know if we do or not, l
8 but maybe we should talk to GSA about it --
9 MS. NORRY:
OPM.
10 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
OPM, because that's the only way, in 11 my experience, you can stop these markings that tend to go l
12 up.
It's human nature, and I can assure you that it's nothing j
t i
13 new for other agencies.
14 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I would just say that nobody 15 detests grade inflation, I think, more than I do, and I came 16 from a department in academia that resisted it throughout the 17
'70s when it was rampant in mcet places.
We were often looked 18 at with disfavor as a consequence.
19 But I hear what you're saying, Lando, and if I might i
20 make a point that you're probably reluctant to make, on the 21 trip I took out on that training run, it occurred to me and it 22 was clear to me that the category of people that were in the 23 nuclear Navy on that vessel were just a cut above the average 24 that you see.
I think the people that we have here are a cut 25 above the average, too.
1
35 1
So you want to be fair to them in the sense that 2
you're grading with respect to other departments in the 3
Federal Government, and I think we're better than many other 4
departments of the Federal Government.
At the same time, it 5
strains credibility a little bit when you start getting 85 6
percent outstanding.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I agree with that.
It's a judgment 8
call, and certainly we should expect higher, in my view, but 9
is 85 percent too high?
I don't know.
I think it is worth 10 taking a look at.
11 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
We don't grade on a curve, I 12 guess.
13 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
No, and we chouldn't, as far as I'm 14 concerned.
We're not trying to make a bell-shaped curve.
15 We're trying to be honest about it,.and it would be completely 16 unfair to our employees to arbitrarily to change them from l
17 outstanding to excellent, just because we're trying to make 18 the numbers look better.
Now that's now what we're grading 19 people on.
If we're taking an honest approach to it, we'll do 20 the very best we can, and if we have 85 percent of our people 21 at excellent or outstanding, perhaps that's exactly where they 22 belong.
4 23 I don't know, you know, but I'm willing to stand on
~
24 that, if the marking people really believe that that's the 25 case.
But it's certainly worth taking a look at.
It does
i 36 i
1 sound a bit high.
On the other hand, I think it's something 2
that does merit our review.
3 MS. NORRY:
Our second chart shows the 4
organizational summary ratings by organizational groupings --
i 5
NRC-wide, Commission offices, EDO staff offices, program 6
offices.
I don't think there's anything terribly striking i
7 there.
It's just provided for information.
8 The next chart, occupational comparisons, the most 9
outstanding ratings are received by the legal, administrative, t
10 and clerical occupations,.and scientists rated below other 11 occupations.
I 12 Chart No. 4 shows that -- there's a summary rating 13 by sex, and there I don't see any striking differences.
a' Summary ratings by minority groups is the next f
14 15 chart.
16 I should say, back with the sex one, I did -- I 17 should have mentioned that there is a difference in terms 18 which we believe is caused by the tendency to rate secretaries l
19 outstanding in most cases, and that does cause the figures for l
20 women to be higher.
l i
21 on the minority groups, as you can see, we have what 22 are described as highly significant differences when ratings assigned white employees were compared with ratings assigned 23 24 minority employees.
Thirty percent of minorities received 25
" outstanding;" 42 percent of whites received " outstanding."
I 37 1
Twenty-one percent of minorities received " fully successful,"
i 2
and 14 percent of whites received " fully successful."
3 Minorities tend to receive lower ratings.
This is 4
more true in some offices than others, and the difference is i
5 especially prominent in the clerical occupations.
6 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
I take it that's something 7
that you're looking at very hard to understand why that's i
8 happening.
l 9
MR. STELLO:
I already addressed that at the l
10 beginning.
I've asked the Office Directors to look at it.
4 e
11 I'm going to get some recommendations back.
The Chairman has f
e 12 asked me to provide him with what we're going to do about it, f
13 and we'll do that.
l 14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Great.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Right.
It's very important, and 16 we'll look forward to your comments and recommendations.
k 17 MS. NORRY:
Very briefly, on the Executive 4
18 Leadership Program, you will recall that we started out in 19 1984 with the Women's Executive Leadership Program, sponsored i
i 20 by OPM as a pilot program.
We had one person participate in 21 that.
22 In 1985, the name was changed by OPM to Executive 23 Potential Program for Mid-Level Employees, and it was open to 24 everybody.
We had five nominees, all of whom are now 25 participating in the program.
The program includes i
i
\\
l 38 I
1 developmental assignments, IDPs, and so forth.
2 We evaluated the OPM program, decided it was a good 3
one, and decided to go with it for the time being.
It 4
provides our employees an opportunity to interact with other 5
people that they would not get if we just ran our own 6
program.
So we think that OPM is doing a good program here.
7 It's a comprehensive one, and we're going to stick with it as 8
long as that is true, and we will continue to participate.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
One quick comment on 10 that.
Not only in this one, but in some of these other 11 initiatives, the Upward Mobility Program, these other 12 candidate development programs, it strikes me that it's 13 terribly important to take advantage, then, of the benefits 14 that these people gain through going through these programs 15 Nothing is worse than having someone go through an extensive 16 program like this, only to be put back in their same old job, 17 doing their same old thing, and not take advantage of the 18 skills and abilities that they gain through this kind of an 19 effort.
20 If these programs are to be attractive and 21 meaningful to people in the agency, I think the agency has to 22 make a real effort, then, to take advantage of these people 23 and to show that these programs do lead to opportunities for 24 career enhancement, and I hope you're taking a hard look at 1
{
25 that, both for the people that have been through the program
39 1
already and for those that are in it now.
i 2
MS. NORRY:
I agree.
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And I do, too.
That's very 4
important.
5 MS. NORRY:
Just quickly, the exit interview form i
6 does -- has been revised to take note if anyone is leaving 7
the agency for anything related to EEO.
That's been done as 8
of April the 1st, and so far, we have just a few people who 9
have left since then and completed the form, and so far no one 10 has noted that they ar_e leaving for those reasons, but we have 11 a very, very small number, and we probably need to report on 12 that again after there's been more experience with it.
(
13 The next subject is a tougher subject, the complaint 14 comparison.
15 MR. TUCKER:
We did provide the Commission with 16 comparative data in terms of complaints of discrimination.
17 Basically, agencies like the Government Printing Office, the 18 Office of Personnel Management and what not, they average 19 maybe something like 23, 29 complaints a year.
This agency 20 has had a total of 53 complaints since 1975.
We have 12 21 complaints outstanding now, so we really have a very low 22 percentage of complaints that are filed within the agency.
23 But I think the most important thing is the 24 responsiveness of the Staff in terms of adjudicating these 1
25 complaints, and I think that this is basically where this l
v I
~,.,m,,m_,,,.,.
.,m.
r y.--,,,,-.-
40 1
agency surpasses other agencies.
2 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you.
3 Mr. Kadambi.
4 MR. KADAMBI:
Good morning.
My name is Prasad 5
Kadambi.
I work in NRR as Project Manager for the South Texas 6
Project.
7 On behalf of the Affirmative Action Advisory 8
Committee, I appreciate this opportunity to address you.
I 9
have just taken over as Chairman of the AAAC from Augie 10 Spector. Augie did a great job as chairman and brought a new 11 activism to the committee.
I hope to continue in that 12 direction and extend some of the initiatives already begun.
13
(
We of the AAAC intend to play an active part in t
14 solving problems, not just pointing out problems.
I observe a 15 new awareness on the part of our management to work toward the 16 established EEO objectives.
We recognize that it takes time 17 to bring about some of the changes and are eager to help speed 18 things up wherever possible.
19 The Commission and our management has demonstrated 20 in word and deed that the work of the EEO committees is 21 valued.
Recent meetings have reaffirmed the independence and 22 operational flexibility of our committee.
We appreciate 23 that.
I believe some recent initiatives are especially 24 encouraging.
25 The draft five-year plan indicates a much-needed
41 1
commitment to strategic planning.
Such planning lets us take 2
better control of our destiny and enables us to adapt to 3
changing conditions with minimum trauma.
Adapting to the i
4 major changes in the nuclear field is difficult for all of us 5
but can be much more so for minorities and other protected 6
groups.
7 In the same way, the benefits of affirmative action 8
may be felt most strongly by the minorities but do help all I
i 9
personnel.
10 A key aspect of coping with change is appropriate 11 training. Our objective should be to promote in every 12 individual a diversity of skills to maximize his or her 13 usefulness to our organization.
The recent initiative with 14 rotation of assignments for people to broaden their experience 15 is an excellent example of creative thinking applied to 16 training.
17 I would like to pursue with the appropriate people 18 the rationale for beginning with only five positions in the 19 whole agency.
However, it is laudable that a-beginning is 20 being made.
21 An important being taken which we are gratified to 22 recognize is the proposed opinion survey.
We feel that the 23 survey will be a significant tool in taking steps to improve 24 employee attitude and morale.
25 As we take all these positive actions and work 4
_,_._,___m m.,r._,
-, -.. _..., ~,
i i
42 1
towards realizing their full benefits, I would like to propose
{
2 a bold initiative for the Commission to consider. The combined F
3 result of strategic planning, better training and improved
[
4 morale would create a work force poised to achieve the full 5
potential of which we are all capable.
6 One manifestation of such progress would be an 7
absence of a need for reductions in force.
Although there are I
8 times when RIFs must be invoked for the good of the whole 9
organization, a no-RIF goal could be an objective which
?
10 unifies all of us.
Another committee is looking in detail at 11 the last RIF experience.
)
12 In conclusion, I believe we are making significant l
i 13 progress.
My committee looks forward to playing a positive 14 role in the improvements taking place.
i 15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
16 Mr. Stello, do you have a comment?
17 MR. STELLO:
I was going to suggest, Mr. Chairman, 18 knowing that your time is tight, if we could perhaps give each 19 of the committees an opportunity and at least you could hear c
20 what they have to say before leaving.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I would appreciate that if my fellow 22 commissioners have no problem with it, and then we could 23 continue discussion after I leave, but I would like to hear a
24 from everybody if I possibly could.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
That's great.
l l
i t
.-x
,1
--,,,,,,..._.ge,.
43 1
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
2 MR. DEWEY:
I am Lee Dewey and I am representing the 3
age discrimination group.
During the past year, the Committee 4
on Age Discrimination has worked on a number of studies 5
relating to possible discrimination in this agency, and a 6
major effort this year has been study pertaining to the NRR 7
RIF that occurred last fall.
As you are aware, 26 people were 8
RIF'd at that time.
9 We have been directed to do this study by the Chilk 10 to'Stello memo of January 21, 1986.
We view the subject of 11 RIFs to be vitally important, especially in view of 12 Gramm-Rudman budgetary restraints, which we anticipate may l
13 become a very real problem for this agency in the next few f
14 years.
15 Our concern with RIFs are two-fold: first, that an 16 RIF action not have a disproportionate impact on older 17 employees and other minorities; second, that any RIF action is 18 implemented fairly.
We hope to finish our RIF study by 19 September.
20 So far, we have completed interviewing those people 21 who have been RIF'd, and we have also received large amounts 22 of information from the Office of Personnel.
They have been 23 very cooperative.
We still need more information.
We are 24 analyzing data and we will be getting back to them to get 25 more.
Our goal is to finish the study in September.
It is a
)
\\
y
J t
l j
44 l
1 difficult task because we are doing this work basically at 2
night and on weekends in our own time.
i 3
Although it is premature at this time to state the 4
results of cur study, I think we are able to make a few
{
5 preliminary observations at this time.
First, in general the sh 6
individuals who were RIF'd perceived the RIF to be unfair and f
7 unnecessary.
We are looking very closely at their complaints f
i 8
to see if they are, in fact, accurate.
9 Our second observation is that the NRR RIF was 10 extremely demoralizing, both to the persons RIF's and to 11 employees in this agency in general.
There was a widespread, l
12 demoralizing effect en everyone during this process, 13 Our conclusion in this respect is that although we i
14 haven't completely analyzed the RIF, we can at least say that i
15 if at all possible, it would be better not to have RIF actions l
8 s
16 and to be able to accomplish this agency's personnel goals by 17 attrition and by opportunities for early retirement and that 18 kind of thing.
I understand that this type of action has been 19 pursued during the reductions in the Office of Research.
]
20 We hope that our final report will result in the s
21 type of lessons learned which will be of benefit in future 22 RIFs in this agency.
23 That is our major goal this year.
We have worked on 24 other studies and other aspects and I could go into that, but i
(
25 to be brief, I will leave my presentation at this point l
1
45 1
because the RIF is our major concern.
2 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Let me just comment very briefly 3
before you go on.
Certainly I agree with you that whenever we 4
have any kind of a forced reduction of any kind, we should 5
certainly try to do it by attrition.
I agree with you 100 6
percent, and that is certainly my intention whenever possible, 7
and RIF would be the last resort.
8 I think that is exactly what you are saying, and I i
',9/
agree with you we should make every effort to do that.
The 10 reason I can say that is because I think that in general our 11 employees are very, very dedicated Americans and we don't want 12
.to do anything to lose the contributions that they make, so we 13 should whenever possible take our reductions by, first of all, 14 attrition, and second of all, by retirements, where possible, 15 and RIF as a last resort.
l 16 So I certainly agree with you and I think that is 1
17 the intention of all the members of the Commission.
We want l
4 18 to do that where we can.
Occasionally it is not p?ssible, but 19 I can assure you that, as far as I am concerned, the RIFs 20 should be the last resort and only done with a greast deal of 21 thought and care, and that is what I intend to do.
22 May we proceed, please?
23 MR. STELLO:
Cherie.
24 MS. SIEGEL:
Thank you very much.
25 I would like to start by saying to our new chairman t
s 46 l
1 that the Federal Women's Prcgram Advisory Committee offers you 2
our sincere congratulations along with our complete 3
cooperation as we continue to work together on all levels to 4
utilize the most precious resource we have, as we have both 5
said, and that is our human resource.
3
(
6 I have a formal four-page report which I will l
i 7
distribute, but I would like to just take this opportunity to 8
briefly hit some of the high points.
Since our last report to 9
the Commission, FWPAC has continued to make some significant 10 positive contributions to the agency on EEO matters affecting 11 women.
]
12 Our Program Development Subcommittee continues to
)
13 coordinate plans and programs with the Federal Women's Program 14 Manager.
We have attempted, with some success, to involve i
15 managers in our programs.
Greater attendance by managers has 16 been enhanced by the participation of former Chairman 17 Palladino, Chairman Zech and Mr. Stello.
18 This cooperation with our program endeavors is a 19 positive and successful means of increasing the awareness of 20 top level management in EEO and affirmative action programs 21 and objectives, so we appreciate that.
22 In December of last year, FWPAC alerted eligible NRC 23 women to the Executive Potential Program so that they would be 24 prepared to apply for this program when it became
\\
25 available. Of the 102 NRC applicants, five were selected, and 1
4 I
47 1
three of the five were women.
We like to feel that we 2
contributed to that.
3 Our initiatives include the one that you referred 4
to, Mrs. Norry, regarding the secretarial situation.
FWPAC 5
has been advised that there is a perceived problem developing 6
in the agency relating to the recruitment and retention of 7
adequate and proficient secretarial support staff.
As a 8
result, our Policy and Procedures Review and Women's Outreach 9
Subcommittees are initiating a joint effort to determine if a 10 problem exists and, if so, to recommend remedial actions.
So 11 you will be hearing from us on that.
I 12 Latest available figures indicate that although the i
13 NRC work force consists of 32.5 percent women, the majority of I
14 women at NRC still hold positions at the GG-8 level and 15 below.
Our specific concerns are as follows.
l 16 One.
The modest EEO goals of the agency, based on f
(
17 that special study we have all heard about performed by the 18 Cak Ridge universities, are not being met. A meeting sponsored 19 by OSDBU/CR was held with one of the authors of the Oak Ridge i
20 study to explain to the advisory committees how the study was 21 structured, and we all have heard that it is weighted 75 22 percent at the four-year or journeyman level, and 25 percent 23 at the entrance level.
24 However, when developing the NRC Consolidated EEO l
25 Program Plan, it is hoped that consideration will be given to
i s
48 i
l 1
the fact that the numbers of minorities and women in technical 2
and scientific occupations are growing.
We should establish 1
3 an aggressive program to hire them.
4 We recognize that NRC's needs are mainly for t
y 5
experienced personnel; however, the fact that a lower cap on 6
grades has been established forces us to deal with the realism 7
that this might close the door to some senior technical 8
personnel while at the same time opening a door to more junior 9
level applicants who need the training and experience we can i
10 provide.
This also provides the opportunity to hire more 11 minorities and women.
12 FWPAC continues its efforts to improve upward 13 mobility of NRC, especially from the GG-13 level to higher 14 grades in SES positions.
The results of the 1985 SES 15 candidate development program selection served to highlight 16 the scarcity of women in NRC's higher grade levels.
This 17 seems to indicate that little progress will be made in 18 improving the movement of women into SES positions given the 19 extremely limited number of eligible women in the 20 SES-qualified pool.
21 NRC should undertake aggressive efforts to provide 22 advancement opportunities for qualified women.
The most 23 recent figures available to us indicate that personnel who are 24 currently SES certified and awaiting positions include no 25 women.
Currently there are only three women entered in the
49 l
1 SES Candidate Development Program.
2 We recommend concerted efforts in the following 3
areas to correct this situation: increased training to enhance l
i 4
technical and managerial skills; more rotational assignments l
5 providing broader experience; and retraining for those whose j
6 positions may be abolished in the forseeable future.
7 We need to remain aware of present and future needs j
8 of the agency so that we can meet our EEO goals in a realistic 9
manner.
l 10 FWPAC acknowledges that NRC management has increased 11 the number of upward mobility positions.
We recommend that i
12 this modest number, 15, be increased further in a continuing l
13 effort to develop our current resources.
l 14 The women of NRC do not seek special treatment but 15 feel that increased effort can be made to provide them with 16 greater opportunities for growth so that they can compete with 17 their male counterparts not only for higher graded positions 18 but also for positions in the SES Candidate Development i
19 Program and the Senior Executive Service.
20 Thank you again.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much, Ms. Singel, for 22 your thoughtful presentation and your excellent contribution.
23 MR. STELLO:
Elmo.
24 ME. ALLEN:
Thank you, Mr. Stello.
25 Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my name is Elmo l
i I
l
-.----,,...,n
50 1
Allen.
I an Vice President of the NRC Chapter of Blacks in 2
Government.
Blacks in Government is a national organization 3
that is concerned with the professional and cultural 4
development of black Government employees.
5 We appreciate this opportunity to address the 6
Commission.
7 We have reviewed the list of achievements prepared 8
by our Civil Rights Office and believe these achievements to 9
be steps in the right direction.
We are concerned, however, 10 about the real effect these steps have had on eliminating 11 barriers to employment and advanced opportunities here at NRC'.
12 The reports, for example, we have heard here today f.
13 have been on progress being made in increasing the number of 14 minorities and women in various categories.
The programs 15 developed and implemented to achieve this goal are sorely 16 needed and should be continued.
17 Our concern is that in the interest of developing 18 these programs, we overlook a more vital aspect of equal 19 opportunity.
The aspect I speak of is in the elimination of 20 barriers to advancement and employment opportunity such as the 1
21 denial of training, the granting of biased performance 22 evaluations, or even unequal consideration for promotion.
23 While programs such as upward mobility, the women's 24 executive leadership program and even the newly proposed 25 rotation program are good programs, they actually benefit but
__,m
,_.._s.
51 1
a handful of persons and not the majority of minorities and 2
women.
While these programs do result in an increase in the 3
representation of minorities and women, we are nct convinced 4
they address the real issue, that discriminatory attitudes and l
5 practices are identified and dealt with.
(i I
6 A case in point is the analysis showing a 7
statistical difference between performance evaluations being 1
8 given minorities versus non-minority employees.
Regardless of C
9 Now successful these programs that I have mentioned are in 10 increasing the representation of minorities and women, they i
11 cannot address the issue surrounding performance evaluations.
l 12 There continues to be room for improvement in the 1
c 13 Agency's overall EEO plan.
We recommend that the Agency place i
14 more emphasis on rooting out the potential causes of under 15 representation rather than just on providing numbers.
16 This in our opinion means focusing more efforts on 17 identifying and eliminating discriminatory attitudes, 18 conditions and practices.
19 We are pleased to see that the staff has begun to i
l 20 investigate the performance evaluation problem and urge more 21 of this type of activity be undertaken.
22 Another issue of interest to Blacks in Government is 23 the growing perception that blacks in general and BIG in 24 particular are being excluded frca commenting on matters 25 involving EEO.
Such matters are of primary interest to us and l
e
l 52 E
1 because they have so significant an impact on us as black 2
employees, we believe it is absolutely essential that we be d
3 given an opportunity to comment on such matters and to be i
4 consulted with before final consideration.
Blacks in Government has offered to work closely l
5 6
with the Agency and its EEO officials.
We are of the
?
7 impression that such matters are being considered devoid of 8
our input and from other persons affected by such matters.
9 It is our hope and recommendation that the Agency j
10 would get Blacks in Government as well as the other advisory l
11 committees more involved in the discussion and consideration
]
12 of EEO matters.
13 c
Because we believe these issues impact so greatly on O
i 14 employment opportunities, our organization is currently I
15 focusing on two major areas of interest.
Number one, to identify and define obstacles to equal employment 16 17 opportunities for black employees at NRC and number two, to 18 the extent possible, develop programs that we feel would aid f
19 in removing these obstacles, i
20 In regard to the first area, we are working to
(
l improve our communications between all black employees and the 21 22 Agency and regional offices by the use of a Chapter newsletter 23 and the use of many surveys, that would give employees an 24 opportunity to provide feedback on particular EEO prchlem i
25 areas.
Also in the future we will work to develop employee l.
l 53 1
case histories so that in briefings of this type and with
\\
2 other communications with NRC management, we will be able to 3
cite specific examples of the employee EEO problems.
4 In regard to the second area, the development of 5
programs to aid and remove obstacles to equal employment 6
opportunities, we are focusing on promoting excellence in job 7
performance.
We are currently planning a seminar with the 8
focus on competition.
We believe our interest in this area 9
will benefit all employees at NRC and thus the Agency as a 10 whole.
11 In closing, we again commend the efforts being made 12 in the area of equal employment opportunities, while voicing a 13 real concern about the overall effectiveness of these 14 efforts.
We as an organization will continue to work toward 15 identifying obstacles to EEO and offering solution s as to how 16 these obstacles can be overcome.
17 While we work at these tasks, we will continue to 18 emphasize that the responsibility for ensuring equal 19 employment opportunities at the NRC lies with the Agency and 20 not with the EEO Committee constituency groups, including our 21 organization, Blacks in Government.
22 We will continue to support the concept of the 23 censolidated EEO program plan and look forward to the 24 opportunity to comment on it again.
Thank you for your 25 attention.
i 54 1
CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much, Mr. Allen, for 4
2 your very thoughtful presentation.
Since I have to leave in_a 3
very few minutes, let me just make a few comments and then I
]
4 will turn the Chair over to Mr. Roberts to continue the 5
discussion.
6 I would just like to thank all of you for your 7
leadership in the various organizations and programs you 8
represent.
We all recognize, as Mr. Allen pointed out, it is i
9 an Agency responsibility.
You are advisors and we appreciate 10 very much your thoughtful and your constructive comments.
11 We recognize, at lest certainly I do, and I know my I
12 fellow Commissioners do, too, that there is room for 13 improvement in all of our programs.
We are committed to 14 making improvements, to do what we can to take advantage of i
15 the very fine people of all backgrounds that we have in our l
16 Agency.
Again, people, as far as I am concerned, are indeed j
1 17 our greatest resource.
It is not only the right thing to do t
18 in my view, but it just makes good sense to use your greatest 19 resource more effectively to carry out the jobs we are charged 20 with, to ensure that the American people are provided the l
l 21 highest degree of safety of all nuclear matters, power plants 22 and other nuclear matters that we are responsible for.
23 Your contribution, in my view, is very important.
I 24 only would like to emphasize one final thought, other than my 25 thanking you for what you are doing, not only for our Agency
l 55 1
but for our country, all of you, but I would like to say it is 1
2 important that we not only recognize that there is room for 3
improvement, but that we try to do something about it, as you 4
have all suggested.
I agree with that.
5 It is so important to me not that we just ring our 6
hands and try to make a fuss about things that aren't going so j
7 well.
Let's do something about it.
Let's try to be l
8 constructive.
Let's keep communicating.
Let's try to work 9
together.
It is so important in my view.
We can make 10 progress.
We should make progress.
We want to make 11 progress.
We can do so with your help, recognizing that even 12 the progress we make is probably not as fast in some areas but i
13 the curve is going in the right direction.
I 14 Our management leadership has a responsibility to 15 reflect, I think, these views.
I think my fellow 16 Commissioners would generally agree with me.
I know 17 Mr. Stello agrees, too.
17e must get these thoughts and 18 constructive and serious efforts ingrained in our top 19 leadership and it has to permeate the whole organization.
i 20 It is not only the right thing to do but good common 21 sense that we get the most out of our greatest resource, our 22 people.
J 23 I appreciate your contribution.
I appreciate your 24 willingness in most cases to take on these jobs as above and 25 beyond your own work day.
I know there is a lot of extra time i
O 56 1
put in.
I greatly appreciate that.
You are making a 2
contribution again not only to our Agency but to the American 3
people.
Let's try to make it. constructive.
Let's be honest 4
about the programs that we are not doing well in.
Let's try 5
to do better.
Let's be constructive.
Let's really try to do 6
what we can to improve.
7 I think it is so important that we keep a positive 8
constructive attitude about it.
That is the way I look at 9
these programs.
We want to improve and we should improve and 10 we can improve.
Let's all work together towards that end.
11 I appreciate very much what you are doing.
I 12 apologize for having to leave.
I appreciate the tolerance of 13 my fellow Commissioners to allow me to hear from all of you 14 before I have to go.
I will turn the gavel over to i
15 Mr. Roberts.
t 16
[ Chairman Zech exited the meeting).
17 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
We have had a chance to hear 18 from each of you.
I appreciate your involvement.
I am sure 19 each of you could speak at greater length.
To accommodate the 20 Chairman, we did give you abbreviated time.
21 Why don't I ask any of my fellow Commissioners if 22 they have any specific questions they would like to pursue?
i 23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
I have one question and 24 maybe a comment or two.
That will be it for me.
25 On the opinion survey, which I think Prasad
--er
,,e,-
-y
_,.~4_
.,-mv__-,__,
y--,~
o 57 1
mentioned, could we get an update on where we stand in terms 2
of the development of the employee opinian survey, where we 3
stand on that?
4 MS. NORRY:
Pat Rathbun is chief architect on the 5
survey.
6 MS. RATHBUN:
The first step that we went through i
7 was to establish the working group, as Mr. Sullivan directed 8
us.
The second and fairly time consuming part of it was to i
9 review the surveys done by other Government agencies of 10 Government employees, which is a major concern.
11 I guess the ones that have been the most helpful 12 have been OPM, MSPB.
Interestingly enough, the Army EEO 13 surveys were very helpful.
14 We had a meeting with the various groups concerned 15 and have come to fair agreement that would address their 16 concerns and the areas of interest that you wrote to us about 17 in your memo.
I have been able to identify questions that I 18 think would serve to address each of the points you were 19 particularly interested in.
20 We have dropped a questionnaire to test all the 21 concepts and our next step will be to return that 22 questionnaire to each of the individuals in the groups.
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Very good.
The advisory 24 committees will all get copies of the questionnaire and then 25 feed back their comments to you?
- -.,,. -... ~.
58 1
MS. RATHBUN:
Right.
2 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
Do you have a target in i
i l
3 terms of when you think you might have it put together and be 4
prepared to conduct the survey?
5 MS. RATHBUN:
We are still on target with our I
6 schedule, being administered around November or December.
We 7
are still on that target.
Surveys are dicey.
8 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
hhankyou.
9 I don't have any more quest. ions, but I have a couple 10 of comments for the advisory committ e people in particular.
11 I agreed with virtually everything Chairman Zech said.
I 12 think in particular the presentations that you all made today 7
13 were just continuing evidence to me of the great value and 14 benefit we are gaining from the advisory committees.
15 Like Chairman Zech, I think you all are to be 16 commended for the amount of time you put in, lunch hours, at 17 home, weekends and evenings.
I think the thoughtful comments 18 and suggestions that you made not only at the last meeting 19 that led to many of the initiatives that the Commission 20 started with the staff requirements memo six months ago, but 21 also today, provide us with a real benefit and I think are a 22 real help to the staff as well and to the Program Office.
23 I hope that to the staff the efforts you made over 24 the past six months to address the new initiatives are things 25 that you view as basically living concepts and you will retain
59 1
the thoughts and comments and advice of the advisory j
i 2
committees on those and feed those in as you continue to I
3 develop those kinds of efforts.
I'm sure they will have some 2
4 thoughts and ideas on how some of those initiatives could be 5
strengthened and improved, as I think Cherie and Prasad 6
mentioned some of those items today.
7 Prasad, I agree with your comment.
I hope we can do f
8 better on the rotational program.
Pat, I think you made the 9
same comment.
Five positions are a good start.
It would be 10 better if we could do more of that.
I think it is something
?
11 that holds real promise.
i 12 The no-RIF policy, I agree with Chairman Zech's i
13 comments about avoiding RIF's.
It strikes me there are two 14 elements that we discussed today that also may help on that.
i 15 One is the human resource plan, if we are really able to i
16 effectively plan what we need over a five year period, then we i
17 ought to be able to avoid the potential for RIF's down the 18 road.
The second is the re-training element that I think you 19 mentioned, Prasad, and that is we can take the people we have 1
i 20 and train them and adapt them to the kinds of areas that we l
1 4
21 are moving into.
That is another way to avoid the RIF's.
22 Lee, I think your study of the past RIF is likely to 4
i 23 tell us some important lessons about what went wrong the last 24 time around and how we can avoid that situation in the 25 future.
I very much agree.
Any time you have a RIF like
60 1
that, the impact is-Agency-wide and very negative.
If we can 2
avoid it, we ought to do that.
3 On your presentation, Cherie, I think again, you are i
4 absolutely right.
What we need to do is target the pool of 5
people and the efforts and initiatives to increase the number 6
of women and minority employees, both at the higher grade 7
levels and in the SES Candidate Program.
Since we do seem to l
8 be able to absorb the women and minority participants in the 9
SES Candidate Program that we have had, the more we can build 10 into that program I think the better off we will be.
11 Pat, I hope that you and the Program Offices will 12 look at what can be done to expand that participation.
We 13 seem to be keeping up pretty well, and try to expand it to I
14 the extent we possibly can.
15 Elmo, I guess the comment I would have on your 16 presentation is you are absolutely right.
I think while many 17 of these other programs are good, in terms of increasing i
18 opportunities, they tend to be focused with limited numbers of 19 people and the heart of the problem is to get at the reasons 1
20 for under representation, the root causes, and get those
/
21 fixed.
I think the extent to which BIG and the other advisory 22 committees can come up with some additional suggestions and 23 ideas on how to strengthen the new initiatives, to get at 24 those problems, the better off we will be.
I would encourage 25 you to do that.
.. _,. _.. _. _, _.. _ _ _,_. ___d
o 61 l
1 I agree very much with the Chairman's suggestion 2
about everybody working together, making sure there is a full
)
3 and free exchange of information and that the advisory 4
committees and the Programs staff work as a team to help 5
improve our performance in this area.
6 I guess the last comment I would make is I hope the 7
next time we have one of these meetings, it is.in the new I
8 buildine and there will be an opportunity for more employees 9
in the Agency to come hear this kind of discussion.
I think 10 nothing that we talk about more directly affects the lives and 11 well being of our employees then these kind of meetings.
I 1
12 think one of the positive benefits of the new building is 13 going to be more people can just drop down in the elevator to 14 hear what is going on, to hear the discussion and be involved 15 in it.
Six or seven months from now, we ought to be able to l
16 do that.
17 That's my last comment.
18 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I see Mr. Stello smiling at 19 that last comment.
20 MR. STELLO:
I was also thinking we also want it to 21 work, too.
1 22 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:
That's true.
Two hours 23 every six months is not bad, t
24 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Fred, do you have any 25 questions?
l
1 4
62 1
COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
I have just a couple.
This 2
is going to sound strange coming from a scientist, I suppose.
i 3
I want to make sure that we don't think that doing the numbers
'I 4
is doing the job here and the job doesn't end just by 5
generating paper and generating numbers and studies.
6 One or two specific points.
I get the sense and I 7
think as much from Mr. Allen's comments as some comments from 8
my own staff, that we really ought to be sure that we make 9
good use of these advisory committees.
Let's not just have 10 them in when the decisions are being made or worse yet, just 11 to talk to the Commission.
I know that is not being done.
I 12 Let's make sure there is time for meaningful and timely 13 participation and consultation with them so that they are 14 giving us the advantage of their thoughts.
i 15 I have a specific question also on an item that I think as a practical matter may well do as much as anything 16 17 for recruiting and retaining at least women and to the extent 18 that it is a special concern to other groups.
That is our day 19 care center.
i a
20 Is that on track?
Are we going to get that?
21 MS. NORRY:
We are assuming and working toward i
22 having a day care center in the second building.
We are 23 gathering information on others that have been set up.
That
)
24 is our plan.
25 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
Good.
63 1
What is our policy on pregnancy leave for women?
2 Are we strictly bound by Government-wide regulation on that 3
matter or is there some discretion there?
4 MR. McDERMOTT:
We are no different than the rest of 5
the Government.
We are under the Leave Act the same way
)
6 everybody else is.
What that means is you get sick leave as 7
long as any doctor says, this is sick leave, then any other 8
absence is essentially negotiated between the employee and the 9
employee's supervisor.
It can be a combination of annual 10 leave, leave without pay.
It is done on a case basis.
11 COMMISSIONER BERNTHAL:
It is something we might 12 think about.
The Chairman should be here for this.
He would 13 be the key officer.
I would wonder if maybe we can't come up 14 with an understanding that is Agency-wide for some uniformity 15 there in leave. Without pay, I suspect, is M.111 the reality 16 of this world.
At least leave without pay with some 17 understanding that return is guaranteed for some reasonable 18 period of time.
19 Two quick points and then I will stop.
My staff 20 informs me that except for the area of attorneys, and stop me l
1 21 if I an wrong, the consensus data was indeed not 1980.
For
)
22 attorneys, it was 1980 data.
There has been a tremendous 23 change since 1980 in the number of women going into the legal 24 profession.
That would suggest even though we are cutting 25 lawyers here, to the extent that we aren't cutting lawyers or
64 1
are replacing any of those slots, that is an area that we 2
should be particularly attentive to, the possibility of hiring 4
3 minorities and women.
4 The last comment is it is a long held belief of mine 5
that the internal advancement of minorities and women in 6
positions that are lower paying and require training is one of 7
the best ways we can do something for the system and for what 8
the system has done over the years.
9 We talked about that.
We do have programs in 10 place.
Again, if an attitude is generated on top and 11 permeated downward, I would like to see the point where I
12 everyone is paying special attention and communicating perhaps l
l 13 more often than we do now or may even be thought the normal 14 course of business, that people in lower grade and lower 15 paying positions should be urged to get out and get the 16 training and qualifications for upgrading their professional 17 rank.
That is just a comment.
18 I know we are trying to do some things on that.
19 Again, that is a matter of attitude.
If everybody looks at 20 the persons under him and keys on that point, I think that can 21 be a tremendous help over the long run.
22 That's all I have to say.
Thank you all for your 23 presentations.
24 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Let me say I think the 25 Chairman made an eloquent response as he left.
I certainly
O 65 1
share his views.
I think all of us do.
We thank you for your 2
participation at this meeting and for your presentations.
3 They are most interesting.
We encourage you to continue what 4
you are doing.
Again, I don't want to be repetitive of what 5
the Chairman said, but the objective is to better succeed in 6
these endeavors.
We would encourage you to do so.
Thank you 7
so much.
8 The meeting is adjourned.
9
[Whereupon, at 10:50 a.m.,
the Commission meeting 10 was adjourned.]
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 i
25 l
1 2
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE r
O, 4
This is to certify that the attached events of a 5
meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
)
6 7
TITLE OF MEETING: Briefing on Status of EEO Programs (Public Meeting) 8 PLACE OF MEETING:
Washington, D.C.
9 DATE OF MEETING: Wednesday, July 23, 1986 10 11 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original f
12 transcript thereof for the file of the Commission taken 13 stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to typewriting by 14 me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and 15 that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the 16 foregoing events.
17 18 A ^'# b __
v 19 Marilynn Nations i,
I 20 l
l 21 22 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
23 O
24 25 l
l
7/17/86 SCHEDl1 LING NOTES IITLE:
BRIEFING ON STATUS OF EE0 PROGRAM SCHEDULED:
9:00 A.M.,
WEDNESDAY, JULY 23, 1986 (OPEN)
DURATION:
APPROX l-1/2 HRS E
PARTICIPANTS:
E. TUCKER, SDBD/CR 15 MINS
- P. NORRY. ADM 15 MINS
- N. PRASAD KADAMI 5 MINS
- AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADVISORY COMMITTEE l
P. BACHMANN 5 MINS
- ALE DISCRIMINATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE C. SIEGEL 5 MINS
- FEDERAL WOMEN'S PROGRAM ADVISORY COMMITTEE i
E. ALLEN 5 MINS
- BLACKS IN. GOVERNMENT
- SPEAK'ING TIMES SHOWN ABOVE ARE APPROXIMATE.
DOCUMENTS:
BRIEFING CHARTS
PERFOR V ANCE Ao 3RAISAL (NON-SES)
SUMMARY
RATING DISTRIBUTION FY82-FY85 LEGEND Vfd o
- a..
E e.
FA n 30-
- 33 20- =
15- -
'l./
f 10< -
j.
~
~
[
FISCAL YEAR
M.w v*,,
e, -
( ; :, :',.
Chart 2 c.\\ * *
?.~.' ~
Summary Ratings By Organizational Groups: Percents e.i:.
i K. -
Outstanding Excellent Fully Successful
?.-n
- i..
~
1982 1983 1984 1985 1982 1983 1984 1985 1982 1983 1984 1985 t, r.:
~;. NRC-wide 27 29 34 40 34 40 45 45 39 31 21 15
~:. '
O-rg
.1 Conn., Offices 34 37 55 54 32 45' 37 36 34 18 8
10 V; A.
?
E00 Staff
- .l'J
~0'f fices 25 28 36 40 32 42 50 48 43 30 14 12
- 7..;.
-. Program F.J. - Of,fices 25 31 34 41 36 43 47 45 39 26 18 14
?'
9 j.. -
7 Re~gions No data 26 29 35 32 41 46 42 30 19 7
Available
_3-
.r p
l.'.*
l
'I
'.'5-L l-d A
g L'"
,(-
s_
4 Chart 3
- . k.,
s.:
'k=
Summary Ratings By Occupation Groups:, Percents i
M
"- l ; '
Outstandin9 Excellent Fully Successful f}';,
1982
'1983 1984 1985 1982 1983 1984
_1985 1982 1983 1984 1985
.. !NRC-Wide 27
.29 34 40 34 40 45 45 39 31 21 15
- En,gineer 24 30 32
'39 39
- 38 43 45 37 32 25 16
..g...-
Sdientist 23 20 27 33 26 40 50 46 51 40 23 21 n,
.i' le9'al 22 31 40 44 37 39 43 39 41 30 17 17
^
c :: -
' ' Admin 31 31 39 44 36 45 48 46 33 24 13 10
~ 29 32 37 43 29 38 44 44 42 30' 19 13
_ Clerical f(:e N,"
~
s s-t.
34 ',,
- e -
[_,
O a
s.-
P,
-C-Chart 4 e.;..
4
~
Summary Rating By Sex:
Percents d '.
't."
{: *
[.,:. ~
Outstanding Excellent Fully Successful 1982 1983 1984 1985 1982 1983 1984 1985 1982 1983 1984 1985 f.
27 29 34 40 34 40 45 45 39 31 21 15 s..NRC-Wide-
~
2 Malo-25 28 31 37 34 39 46 46 41 33 23 17
..;..i.'
..~
V:. Female.
29 32 39 45 34 41 44 44 37 27 17 11 i 8.*
4 N, '
e e
j w'
y....
P,a
\\l I
o 5
8 5
1 4
9 1
2 1
1_
lu f
4 s
8 1
7 9
s 9
2 2
1 5
e 1
c t
c r
u a
S h
C y
3 1
9 0
9 l
8 3
3 3
l 9
u 1
F 2
8 9
2 7
9 3
5 3
1 s
t 5
n 8
5 9
4 e
9 4
4 4
c 1
re P
4 s
8 5
6 5
p 9
4 4
4 u
t 1
o n
r e
G l
l y
e t
c 3
i x
8 0
2 9
r E
9 o
4 4
3 1
n iM y
B 2
4 1
4 8
3 3
3 s
9 g
1 n
i ta R
yra 5
m 8
0 0
2 e
m 9
e u
4 3
4 1
S 4
g 8
4 7
6 n
9 3
2 3
i 1
dna ts t
3 u
8 9
9 1
O 9
2 1
3 1
28 7
7 9
9 2
1 2
1 se e
y i
d t
t I
f t
W r
- r c
o
- o.
1.,.
/>
R i
o t C
n n n.
N N.
NM s
i n i :.*.
p'.
,d
[',..
4
.; 2 l.
I S
{
Y N Y Nt000kkt000kkkkkkkkkkkkg0kg0g0hh & & &
Q t
TRANSMITTAL TO:
Y Document Control Desk, 016 Phillips l
ADVANCED COPY TO:
The Public Document Room
}t15 f(t DATE:
FROM:
SECY Correspondence & Records Branch h
Attached are copies of a Commission meeting transcript and related meeting I
3 f
3 l
document (s). They are being forwarded for entry on the Daily Accession List and placement in the Public Document Room. No other distribution is requested or
] j :
required.
l ll a3 l
l Meeting
Title:
3( *-b 5 6 $beku5 = E E6.0 Vr omf%s j
l g
\\
3 3;'
e Meeting Date:
7 9.M8(,
Open X Closed
$ l
.)
5 e
3 Item Description *:
Copies 3:
Advanced DCS" S[
to PDR C3 l
- 8 SEl 3!
- 1. TRANSCRIPT 1
1 3
}
j W / DtWC. ash 4 Mb g
3 4th 0 - \\
)dek t.1 2.
,n b
4.
a G
h 5.
[
5' 3
6.
i' l
- PDR is advanced one copy of each document, two of each SECY paper.
E C&R Branch files the original transcript, with attachments, without SECY E
papers.
YYfhhY NYN