ML20205B483
| ML20205B483 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Seabrook  |
| Issue date: | 03/18/1987 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20205B479 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8703270617 | |
| Download: ML20205B483 (54) | |
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l UlN11EU STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ORIGINAL -
IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-443 MANAGEMENT MEETING BETWEEN PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE AND NRC STAFF TO DISCUSS COMMON PROBLEMS LOCATION: BETHESDA, MARYLAND PAGES: 1 52 DATE: WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18, 1987 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, LNC.
Offical Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 347-3700 MDOWEE COMACE D ADOCK 5 0 43 T PDR
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1 1 UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2 !
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6 SEABROOK LICENSING ISSUES MEETING ,
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9 10 11 12 13 Wednesday, March 18, 1987 ,
i 14 The Phillips Building !
15 7920 Norfolk Avenue 16 Bethesda, Maryland 17 18 i 19 ***
20 21 22 23 j 24 25 ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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'l E E Q C E E D 1 E G E: -1
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2 (2:10 p.m.) f 3 MR. NOVAK: Good af ternoon, gentlemen, my name l A I
L 4 is Tom Novak._ I am.. Acting director of the Pressurized '
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l -5 Water Reactor Division, and I will kick off this meeting l l
6 this afternoon.
I 7 This is a meeting with the Public Service of i
8 New Hampshire Yankee Company with regard to seabrook Unit 9 1.
l 10 This meeting is being held in response to a i 11 letter from the utility of February 18, 1987, where they I. 1,2 suggested that it would be useful to have a meeting of this ;
i 13 type to have an open discussion on issues affecting l 14 Seabrook's license and to facilitate the development of 15 timely and reasonable solutions to these issues. ,
16 We have with us today a number of key members 17 of the NRC staff.
18 I know from the other side there are senior 19 members of Public Service of New Hampshire and other 20 utility representation.
l 21 As you know this meeting is being transcribed, 22 so when you speak, I would ask you to identify yourself so l 23 it can be properly recorded.
24 Attached to that letter of February from the 25 utility was a proposed agenda. We have reviewed it, with ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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I some slight moving we think it's a good agenda. !
'2 There are-a number of copies of-the agenda i
3 available. j 4 I would intend to follow that agenda, and 5 hopefully within an hour and a half or so we can reach the 6 closing statements as suggested by this agenda.
1 7 Those were the only remarks I had prepared. l 8 Mr. Brown, I understand you will first speak for the 9 utility and we will turn over the meeting to you at this j 10- time.
11 MR. BROWN: Thank you. I defer to Mr. ,
12 Eichorn, who is Chairman of the Executive Committee of the 13 . Joint Owners, Chairman and Chief Executive of Eastern i
14 Utilities Associates. !
l 15 MR. EICHORN: Good afternoon, gentlemen. '
I 16 thank you very much for the opportunity to visit with you 17 today.
18 As Ed has mentioned to you, I am Chairman of 19 the Joint Owners Executive Committee. Sitting here with 20 us, I would just like to tell you who is here so that you !
21 will understand where we come from.
i 22 To my right is Robert Harrison, President and 23 Chief Executive Officer of Public Services New Hampshire.
24 To my immediate left is George Edwards, l
25 President and Chief Executive Officer of United ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1- Illuminating Company. ,
2 To my far right is Richard-K. Byrne, General 3 Manager for Massachusetts Municipal Wholesale Electric 4- Company.
5 I don't need to have any introduction.of our l ,
6 chief builders of the nuclear plant,' Joe Derrickson.
7 In addition we have with us today some other 8 representatives of the Joint Owners: Jeffrey Tranen is 9 here, Vice President, New England Power Company, 10 representing Sam Huntington who unfortunately couldn't be 11 here today. l 12 Robert Bishop, Northeast Utilities.
13 We have people from the plant in addition to 14 Mr. Brown and Mr. Derrickson: Ted Feigenbaum, Vice 15 President New Hampshire Yankee Division.
16 George Thomas, Vice President Nuclear i t
17 Production, New Hampshire Yankee Division. j 18 Thomas Dignan from the firm of Ropes & Gray in i 19 Boston, counsel.
20 And Robert Sweeney, Licensing Representative, 21 New Hampshire Yankee in Washington. ,
i 22 I have this list prepared and printed for you.
I 23 Ed Brown will give copies out. It also tells about our 24 membership and concerned other organizations which might be .
25 of interest to you.
l l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700 l
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1 We have listed the other nuclear operations j 2 where some of us are involved. j 3- Even though the other owners are not here, we j 4 wanted to be sure you understood the four gentlemen sitting 5 here at the table along with the other three and myself i;
6 represent about 80 percent of the Seabrook project !
l' 7 . ownership.
8 The reason for our meeting is we asked you to-9 sit down with us because we feel the plant construction is 10 complete.
11 As you know the fuel is loaded, not i
12 irradiated. A hot functional tests, they are essentially 1 13 complete, both prior to fuel loading and after fuel i
14 loading, f i
15 We believe Seabrook is well built and is ;
16 manned by a trained and experienced staff, backed up by our j 17 Yankee nuclear organization in New England. ;- 1 18 Emergency planning is the only major issue we l
.19 'know which is remaining open. Seabrook has done everything 20 possible, continues to do everything possible to get this 21 plant on line.
2 22 The owners' of the Seabrook project financial 23 resources are not unlimited. To that extent I am going to 9
24 ask Bob Harrison if he would just elaborate a little bit 25 about some of the financial conditions of this company as
-ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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- I well as others. i 2 Bob.
3 MRn HARRISON: Bob Harrison, Public Service, 4 New Hampshire.
5 As Mr. Eichorn indicated, the financial
.6 resources of all of the owners are not unlimited. ;
7 Public Service of New Hampshire, as the i
8 largest owner, we own 35.6 percent, is under the most l.
,9 severe stress.
10 Nonetheless, while it is more severe than any i
11 of the other owners, it does serve to make a point. I 12 would like to call to your attention that because of the 13 ,
peculiarity of the New Hampshire statutes, my company l
14 currently has 2.7 billion dollars in assets.
15 But our rate base, by that I mean the assets 16 upon which we can earn money, is some 600 million. It is I
17 extremely difficult to support 2.7 billion dollars with a 18 rate base that is only 600 million. i 19 That is really the reason we are under this 20 stress.
21 We do see our way clear, we have been able to l 22 demonstrate and will continue to do so, continued access to 23 the capital markets.
24 But nonetheless, with a completed plant, a 25 plant that is needed, and this will be addressed later, ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 there comes a time when you just have to reach the end of l
-2 the trail.
f 3 My company continues to be able to meet its 4 obligations financially. At this point in time we don't 5 see any end to that. 1 6 Nonetheless, this is a road that at some point i
7 in time will come to a dead end. ;
8 MR. EICHORN: I think it is important that we 9 say that not only is the financial resources of the utility. j 10 being strained of course, but also the regional rate payers 11 are suffering. They are paying an economic penalty in !
r 12 several different ways.
l 13 Seabrook itself will replace about 12 million j 14 barrels of oil per year once it starts operating. As you l 15 probably know, in New England we do have high predominance l 16 on imported oils.
17 This would help cut the balance of payments 18 for the whole country as far as that is concerned.
19 But even over and above that aspect, the rate 20 payers are paying because of our power situation in New 21 England, i
22 We have to look to other pools, and I will ask j 23 George Edwards in a second to expand on this, we have to 24 look at other pools to come in and help us out during our 25 peak periods.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 What we buy from other pools is the most 2 expensive energy, if available, that they have.
3 Our need for power really is today, it's real.
4 To that extent I would like to ask George Edwards to please 5 elaborate on that a little bit.
6 George's credentials are in front of you. He i
7 is Vice Chairman of the Northeast Power Coordinating ;
8 Council and very familiar with this situation. '
9 MR. EDWARDS: I am speaking on behalf of 10 Northeast Power Council and as a joint owner of the 11 project.
12 I would like to address the coming summer 13 capacity situation. We, as joint owners, representatives i 14 of New England utilities, are now in the process of 15 informing our governors, state regulators and FERC of what 16 about about to tell you in more detail than I can go into 17 here.
18 We can provide as much detail with respect to i 19 the numbers, we are talking about the capacity situation in 20 New England this summer. The last two summers have been ,
21 very tight. !
i 22 We have had to implement what we call 23 operating procedure 4. Under the New England Power Pool, 24 which means you do everything you can voluntarily, I
25 customers do everything they can voluntarily to help reduce ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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'l the-load on the system.
i 2 We are forecasting a peak this summer of 3 18,400 megawatts. We anticipate, and my. people briefed my j i
4 regulatory commission and governor's energy group in i 5 Connecticut yesterday, we-will be in OP 4 a number of times {
6 this summer.
7 That will involve voltage reductions, 8 voluntary load curtailment and implementing all of the 9 interruptable load plans that we have. ,
10 Now, whether we have to go to what we call ,
11 operating procedures 7, OP 7, is a function of the weather j 3
12 and of the generating plant performance that we are able to i
13 have this summer. >
14 Our average forced outage rate is 15 approximately 2,000 megawatts. Now, if we exceed 2,000 j 16 megawatts, and in this August, early September timeframe 17 and if the summer turns out to be extremely hot, then there l
18 is no question in my mind we will have to implement OP 7, f 19 which is involuntary load shedding. It's a very serious 20 matter.
21 All of this assumes the Pilgrim plant owned by [
22 Boston Edison and others, operated by Boston Edison, will i 23 not be available and of course now we don't have Seabrook -
24 available this summer unless you all have some startling 25 information for us.
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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i 1- I give you this' situation'because we have I f
2 gone through1 similar . situations for the past two summers.
3 The capacity is definitely needed. ;
~4 Seabrook, by.itself,.will not solve the !
5 capacity problem, but it will certainly. go a step' in the 9 6 right direction as far as alleviating some of the problem.
T As I said, -in my particular state, !
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8 Connecticut, we briefed the governor's staff and our i e
regulatory commissioners yesterday.
i 9 10- I will add as an aside, the. governor of my i 11 state and the regulatory; commission are publicly-in favor 1
'l2 of the completion of Seabrook'and operation of Seabrook. I e
13 We have four operating nuclear reactors in Connecticut, as J e 14 you know.
15 The political climate for whatever it is worth .
in Connecticut is very good _with respect to nuclear power.
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17 It's been there for a long' time, they understand it, and we 18 need the capacity.
19 MR. EICHORN: You can tell George is from 20 southern Connecticut.
. 21 (Laughter.)
22 MR. EDWARDS: I might add, I came from Georgia 23 Power Company. I understand a full power license was 24 issued to the plant. I talked to my good friend Bob f
25 Scherrill last week, and he was very happy to have his full i
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 power license. ?
l 2 MR. EICHORN: I would like to ask Dick,Byrne 1
who represents, General Manager, who represents F -
3 4 Massachusetts Municipal wholesale Electric Company to speak !
i 5 to us briefly about the support we get from the i- ;
6 Massachusetts Municipal group. ~ .'j i
-7 MR. BYRNE: I am general manager, and'as such l 8 am its chief executive officer. I would like to,edaross 9 the Seabrook need f rom a public power perspective' f or just ,
i 10 a moment.
i 11 We have approximately 28 public. power entities j f
12 that purchase Seabrook power through MMWEC. 'And we have a ;
i 13 desparate need for that power. -
14 We have approximately 150 elected municipal 15 commissioners, or co-op trustees, that represent the 16 participation in Seabrook through MMWEC.
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17 All but four of those commissioners'*strongly' 18 support bringing Seabrook on line and suppoit'the project l
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19 and its need. * %
20 They have asked me to deliver that* message to 21 you. That we need Seabrook from a need standpoint.- It's 22 costing our consumers tens of millions of dollars:to'ay. d f 23 MMWEC is a bit different than- the f
24 investor-owned utilities. We are not governed by the 25 Construction Work in Process rules and laws. Our consumers l
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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l' are paying the debt service on Seabrock today.
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As a result we are having to buy the 3 replacement' power capacity, costing our ,public entity, 4 about 500,000 customers, somewhere on the order of $30 j s 5 million a year.
i We are threatened for our survival by the fact -j 6
i 7 Seabrook is not on line today. Our systems are growing at- ,
I 8 five percent. We are anxious to get this plant on line at 9 the earliest possible date.
4 10 MR. EICHORN: Thank you, Dick.
4 11 Before turning this over to Bill Derrickson to 12 get into the specific first item on the agenda, I would 13 just like to remind you that New England does have eight
- 14 operating nuclear units, the firstoof which was built in 15 Massachusetts, in Rye, Massachusetts in 1960.
, 16 New England has got 120 years of reactor 17 experience in operating these units. In 1986 more than 33 18 percent of the total electric energy consumed.in New j 19 England was generated by these nuclear units.
20 Seabrook, as I mentioned earlier to you, will-
' save an additional 12 million barrels of oil per year. I 21 l 22 like to look at it another way. With the eight units we j 4 23 have operating we have had the equivalent of running 24 Seabrook for 50 years, equivalent. When you talk the l
25 megawatt years that we have had experience from the ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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4 MR. DERRICKSON: Thank you, John. /
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Gentlemeha,' before I review the status of the
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6 plant testing program (and Seabrook liceniiiing issues, I want i ,
you all to realize that we fully appreciate the Smportante 7
8 responsibility you have to protect"the health and safe,ty of
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10 \ "We want you to understanh iti.is cur hos:est
% q' ' vc 11 belief that we share in this rasponsilyility with you. All i s of our actiohs and decisions at New. flaipshire Yankee sor.
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13 directed first and foremost to public well-being. ,
sc %t-14 We have taken special care to build the plantt I 5d '
15 right, ab borne out' by your numerous indepydent u i
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17 We have spared no expense,in tin training of i t
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19 excellent pass /t fail ratios of out operating Ilcense i~
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21' We have taken deliberate measures to build i l 'l 6 22 operational checks and balances after observing the j
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1 know that our petition to reduce the size of the emergency l 2 planning zone was-not:a knee jerk reaction to the governor 3 of' Massachusetts' decision not to cooperate on emergency I i l
'4 ' planning for seabrook.-
5 New Hampshire Yankee's decision to submit the I
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6 zone reduction request was made only after months of I 7 - careful deliberation of the safety issues and due i -
vc. c 8 consideration of Govenor Dukakis' concerns all of which we T'
9 have found to be vague and unsubstantiated. !
[ i i 4- 10, Our petition filing on the other hand is the
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- 3. O i 11 culmination of five-years of careful study of i i t. t t 12- Seabrook-specific design and operational features, together j t
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14' accidents. j i u _. 15 Our technical study upon which our petition is ,
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.i- 16 based was prepared by recognized experts in-the field of i is 17T \ probabilistic risk assessment and was independently i
b l 18 evaluated.by a well-qualified peer-review group.
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19:'di This study is a solid and credible effort that 20 ! uses conservative source terms and is extremely well i l 21
/ documented.
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- q l 22 /- We are here today to tell you now that the
'3l 23 '( Brookhaven review of our study, now that the Brookhaven i e ,
24 review of our study is issued we want to move forward with
,i 25 ) the licensing process. And we are ready to commit the
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, 1 . resources and apply the necessary effort to answer your 2 . remaining questions on our petition and to supplement it, i.
3 if.)necessary.
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The chief executive officers here today have l
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an additional. responsibility to deliver power to New !
M6 England- t?a reasonable cost. ,
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You have heard from them. Due to delays in ,
l 8 ,the licensing process for Seabrook, this task is becoming ,
x 9 more'and more difficult. i
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i 10: ,. We all. understand that you'cannot and must not i
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make your licensing decisions based holely or primarily- on' 12 economics'nor are we urging you to dojso.
13 I do, however, feel th'at public, good is not 14 served by a long, drawn out licensing process such as we t 15 are now experiencing with Seabrook, a: process that started j i
16 on March 30, 1973, with the application for a construction i i
17 permit. s.
18 I also believe very strongly that public 19~ safety and economically practical. nuclear power are not t
- 20. mutually exclusive. .
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/ 21 .All that we request is that you consider our {
7 22 operating license application in a fair, equitable and 23 timely manualer, notwithstanding the political attacks and 24 emotional rhetoric you have been exposed to and will 25 undoubtedly continue to be exposed to.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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.,,k 16' 1 Now, as far as the plant, agenda item number 2 1, the plant is ready,'the plant is fuel loaded into the 3 rea ctor .
4 ' We are just finishing the post core loading 5 hot functional testing. If all continues to go well we 6 will be cooling the plant down this week and will be~in 7 mode 5 over the weekend. We will have completed the 8 testing program.
- 9. We were hoping to have a five percent license
. 10 .so we could continue while the plant is. hot to do the-low 11 power physics tests. We will discuss that in another !
12 agenda item. j I
13 In terms of the next item on the agenda, the -
5 14 five percent license, there were a few loose ends, if you 15 will, a'few issues that had to be taken care of. We 16 believe these are disposed of. I 17 Pretesting of the emergency feedwater system, 18 the elgar inverter, Raychem splices, General Atomic 19 radiation monitors, all of these we have closed out. We
- 20 have been attempting to get with your resident inspector at 21 the site to have him verify he is satisfied. I understand 22 he is not at the site this week, but as soon as he is i
23 available, that contact will be made to get those meetings 24 together.
25 The only other issue we know of related to the i
ACE PEDEnAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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I five percent license was the court decision to, = which l '-
l 2 ordered us to remove siren poles in the towns of Rye and 3 Hampton Falls.-
4 We have appealed that order to the New-5 Hampshire Supreme Court and a removal order by the Superior j t
6 Court is stayed pending the Supreme court action which may l
7 take many months. . l 8 From our perspective' that is where we stand ;
9 with the five percent license. i 10 MR. NOVAK: I think what we would like to do, 11 we would like to go through the agenda where we will l
12 respond where we do have comments.
13 I would like to then back up to the plant i 14 readiness portion and ask first, Tom Murley of Region 1 if 15 you have any particular comments you would like to make j 16' regarding your view of-the readiness plan.
17- MR. MURLEY: Yes, I checked with my staff this 18 morning. In fact, the last test to be done was a rerun I 1
4 19 guess of emergency feedwater test. That has been
! 20 completed.
21 We will probably want to look into the results 22 of that a little more and understand a bit of the test 23 results.
24 But I have no reason to think that wasn't done 25 satisfactorily.
ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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l 1 We also continue to get allegations about-2 ' construction ~ deficiencies that are coming in more or less 3 steadily. l I
4 We have looked in those as we get them and 5 have not found anything that would cause us to change our 6 original conclusions about'the quality of the plant. l 7 Nonetheless, because we are still getting
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- 8. them, there is always that possibility.
9 So in summary I would say our judgment is that 10 it's essentially completed and ready for low power-testing. I 11 MR. NOVAK: Thank you, Tom. j l
12 We have a few comments we would like to 13 present also with regard to our views on the status and .
14 schedule of the low power license. ;
15 I would ask Vick Nerses, project manager for ,
16 Seabrook, to summarize his views. l l
17 Dick, would you care to use the podium?
18 MR. NERSES: We are passing out some handouts. !
19 These are items that are related to the five percent power 20 as we see it today.
21 (Slide.)
i 22 MR. NERSES: The first one is the safety 23 issues that were litigated. Here we need the court to 24 render a decision.
25 The next one is ALAB 853 which is bef ore the
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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- 1 Commission ~and we need the Commission to render a decision.
I Then we have an issue on the control building r :
3 air. At this point we.need to have you provide us the ,
4 information we requested on March 3, 1987. l l
5 Mr. Derrickson mentioned the GA Technologies, j 6- part 21. We have requested'you people provide us 7 information by' letter March 11. j i
8 Again, I point out this material is subject to i l-9- board notification, the date was March 13, '87. ,
l
-10 There are maybe some other items. In.the hand !
11 out you have got two items related -- items that deal with 12 the five percent power.
13 (Slide.)
14 MR. NERSES: The second slide there would .
I 15 indicate possible items that would impact the five percent 16 power license schedule. OGC will address that.
17 MR. NOVAK: Shep Turk of our staff will speak 18 to it.
19 Before we pass over that, with regard to the l
[ 20 Part 21 filing, the reason we provided that information to i i I
21 the board is it dealt with environmental qualifications i L
, 22- which was in contention at the hearing.
l 23 On that basis we considered it to be material l 24 and relevant. We would expect to deal with that matter i
25 before the board would render a decision.
l ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washingcon, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 MR. FEIGENBAUM: Ted Feigenbaum, New Hampshire 2 Yankee.
3 For your information on the GA Technologies l 4 Part 21, our response is into the NRC as of today and 5 indicates we do not have a problem indicated in Part 21.
6 MR. NERSES: Any more questions? I think this 6
7 pretty much indicates about what the status is. ,
8 MR. TURK: Sherwin Turk. This is a very brief :
9 presentation. It concerns a few motions filed before the i 10 on-site licensing board. All these matters concern the 11 sigh recognize which are part of the early notification l-12 system.
13 These are matters which are not strictly 14 required before the board can go ahead and authorize >
15 issuance of a five percent license, but we mention them j 16 because they are sitting in front of the licensing board f
17 and we want to take note of that at this time. I I
(Slide.) i 18 19 MR. TURK: As you know there were some tests 20 of sirens in East Kingston, New Hampshire. The sirens ,
21 failed, apparently they were tested during adverse winter i
22 conditions, there was iceing.
23 Motion to reopen was filed based on that.
24 Motions of course filed both by the utility and staff.
25 Positions taken by both the utilities and staff is that
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ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 there is no problem which would prevent issuance of a I
2 license.
3 In addition, there the same motion referenced 4 the Superior Court of New Hampshire decision on the sirens 5 and poles loc'ated in the towns of Rye and Hampton Falls. j l
6 Again, there both the applicants and staff responded to the i 7 licensing board that there was no problem which would 8 affect issuance of the low power license. {
9 Finally the bullet in the center of this slide 10 relates to a motion to reopen that is still sitting before !
i 11 the licensing board as are the other issues on the slide.
12 This particular motion to reopen involves sirens in i i
Merrimac, Massachusetts. !
13 14 Apparently, those sirens were tested using
'15 incorrect frequencies and based on the initial test would 16 appear to havra been unacceptable. There has been some j l t
17 retesting done. The utility has issued a paper indicating 18 they are satisfied.
19 These matters are mentioned only to indicate 20 that they are sitting in front of the low power licensing i
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21 board now.
i 22 Are there any questions on those matters?
23 MR. STELLO: Do we have any indication of when 24 the board is scheduled for a decision?
25 MR. TURK: Nothing we can rely upon. I don't ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 know why the board has not issued a decision. They are 2_ apparently working on the decision. We will have to wait 3 and see.
t 4 MR. STELLO: Okay. !
I 5~ MR. NOVAK: All right. .
6 MR. STELLO: Let me see if I understand the ,
process.
7 f
8 Once we get a decision from the board, 9 assuming the decision is favorable, we also need a decision
-10 from the Commission on ALAB 853 before the staff would have 11 the authority to make a decision on licensing, do I 12 understand correctly, those two, with respect to plant 13 readiness, that is not an issue.
14 There are two issues, one before the board and 15 one before the Commission. ,
i 16 MR. TURK: That's right.
17 MR. NOVAK: That would be your understanding, !
I 18 as well; is that correct?
1 19 MR. DERRICKSON: I guess as far as the i
20 requirement it's our understanding. I would like to back 21 up down memory lane for just a moment.
22 The board held a hearing late September on l
23 three contentions on the five percent license. It's now l i
24 almost April.
l 25 We are still sitting here without having any i
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1; idea of a schedule of who is going to do what by when. We I 2 just can't seem to find out anything. -
l 1
3 As a representative of the owners from the j 4 standpoint of being responsible to try to get the plant l l
5 licensed we can't tell the owners or the stockholders or i 6 customers anything about the fate of this four and a half ;
7 billion dollar investment. We find that to be rather 8 distressful. .
9 MR. STELLO: How about frustrating?
10 MR.'DERRICKSON: Both. /
11 MR. STELLO: The board is clearly independent.
12 They are going to take the time they take. 7t don't know 13 when we are going to get an answer. As Er. Turk said he .
I 14 would have expected they would have made ar decision. We 15 don't have one yet. Until we have one we can be frustrated ;
16 together. !
17 MR. DERRICKSON: What about-the commissioners' l 18 decision, do we have any time table on when they expect to 19 make a decision on the ALAB issue?
20 MR. NOVAK: We have had some informal I i
21 discussions which would suggest early April. That is what 22 we have diacussed.
23 Again, there is nothing on any specific 24 Commission agenda which would suggest some decision process 25 but our schedule, what we expected was that the board ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 decision would be issued in March as Mr. Turk said. We 2 felt late March was probably a conservative date. Then the 3 other issue was the Commission decision which we felt was 4 reasonable to assume in early April based on what we 5 understood.
6 We will promptly file any responses that you 7 made with regard to Part 21 to close out any material we 8 have put before the board regarding a contention. From ,
i 9 that point of view we will expedite anything we can do to 10 provide that to the board.
11 Those were the comments we had with regard to 12 plant readiness and the five percent license. We are 13 prepared to let you proceed with the agenda.
14 MR. BROWN: Could I just ask, is the 15 Commission waiting for anything from either technical staff i i
16 or legal staff prior to their decision? l 4
17 Mk. sTELLO: To Li.e u' est of my inuwledge, thc 18 answer to that is no.
19 MR. NERSES: No.
4 20 MR. STELLO: Everything we have been asked 21 for, we have provided.
22 MR. BROWN: All right.
23 MR. STELLO: But you know, I appreciate your 24 being frustrated. Again, that is the process. I have seen 25 board decisions that have gone quickly and others that have ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 taken a long time. I don't know. l 2- We can make an attempt to find out if that is 3 scheduled. Maybe that would not be improper. We can j 4 attempt to find out. -
l 5 MR. DERRICKSON: We would like to make a 6 formal request to you all to know that.
7 MR. STELLO: You have got those high-priced
}
8 attorneys, too, they can call. Our attorneys call, you 9 call, maybe we will both get. answers.
10- MR. DERRICKSON: Later I will make the request l
'11 of counsel. Right here I will make the request of you, if ;
I 12 you don't mind.
13 MR. STELLO: I already asked them to do it.
14 MR. DERRICKSON: Appreciate it.
15 MR. STELLO: We will do the best we can. That 16 does not mean it will go_ fast or clow. All we will do is 17 find oui. =chedulen.
18 And if there is anything they are waiting for, 19 certainly I would hope we would get an answer if there is 20 something they wanted from us.
21 They are free to let us know. I have not 22 heard word one.
23 MR. DERRICKSON: We appreciate it.
24 MR. REED: Moving on.
25 MR. EICHORN: Before we get into the next ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 : phase.which describes full power license and emergency 2 ' planning aspects and your' report on New Hampshire I thin) 3 it would be well ifLwe asked Mr. Brown to outline'for us 4 what'we'have done in trying to overcome the neighbo' ring L 5. . state problem, the State of Massachusetts' problems and l
L 6 what our efforts have been.
l 7 Would you cover those briefly, Ed? j l -
8 MR. BROWN: As most of you know, the State of L 9 Massachusetts had a plan developed. It was developed to 10 the point of having two different informal reviews by FEMA 11 at different points in time.
1,2 And also~the State of Massachusetts has in .
13 place emergency response plans for three' other operating !
.14 nuclear facilities. :
15 The decision by the governor of Massachusetts 16 to withhold submission of the Massachusetts emergency plans !
17 in September of 1986 was not unexpected by us but it was a 18 disappointment. l 19 We in New Hampshire Yankee and members of the 20 Executive Committee had been engaged prior to that time in 21 a number of initiatives with officials in the state of 22 Massachusetts. That took place over an extended period of 23 time, prior to the governor's announcement.
24 I would just like to summarize a few of these ,
l 25 initiatives, some of which you may not be aware of. We had j i
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. 27 1 meetings directly with the governor and with the Massachusetts attorney general on several different !
2 l
3 occasions to discuss conditions under which a plan would be l 4 submitted by the state of Massachusetts.
5 These included such things as summer shutdown 6 of Seabrook for a period of time and the construction of i l
7 shelters along the beaches if a study by an independent :
i 8 prestigious institution determined such shelters would be i 9 advisable. And we were fully prepared to agree to those 10 conditions. ,
11 We had frequent regularly scheduled meetings 12 with the governor's staff and attorney general's staff to 13 resolve issues at a lower level.
14 We established a New Hampshire Yankee 15 community relations function consisting of six individuals ,
i 16 covering the six Massachusetts towns to work daily since 17 1984, with the Massachusetts communities, civil defense 18 people on training, equipment requirements and plans.
I 11 9 We had statements by the executive management 20 of New Hampshire Yankee and of the joint owners before and 8
21 after September, 1986 that our preferred course of action 22 would be to have the State of Massachusetts participate. l 23 We had direct laison with the Massachusetts 24 civil defense personnel by our New Hampshire Yankee 25 emergency planning people on a daily basis.
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J 1 We went to the extent of having visits, l
2 encouraged visits and arranged for visits to the plant by 3 each of the Massachusetts six communities' boards of 4 selectmen, city councils, civil defense people, teachers 5 associations, et cetera. ! '
6 We have letters to the governor and other !
7 state officials requesting their participation.
- 8 Subsequent to the Chernobyl event when the
~
9 Massachusetts governor appointed Dr. Albert Carnasale to i 10 advise and consult with, we worked with Dr. Carnasale, had j 11 him visit Seabrook on a tour, lengthy discussions, numerous 12 items of correspondence, and transmitted to him any 13 information requested and any information we had available 14 as we received it on Chernobyl.
15 These are just highlights. There are other 16 initiatives and other overtures made in addition. And we 17 intend to continue to have initiatives with the date of ,
18 Massachusetts and to consider any reasonable request that >
19 they may make in order to encourage the state to ;
t 20 pa rticipa te.
21 In the host state of New Hampshire the 22 situation is positive. i 23 In addition to the participation of the state 24 we have an executed agreement which I signed to continue to 25 provide resources for a full ten mile planning effort l i
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29 l- irrespective of what the results to our petition to reduce F
2 the zone may be.
l 3 That means we are committed to planning with-
{
4 them for a full ten mile zone _to provide resources, to-l 5 provide the funding under the requirements of the New ,
+
6 Hampshire state law, to provide training and anything else ,
7 that is necessary.
i 8 We have extended this same offer to the i
9 commonwealth of Massachusetts, the neighboring state, and j 10 we will continue to do so.
11 I think it is important to close this brief i i
12 statement by saying we will do whatever we can to encourage .
4 13 the State of Massachusetts to participate and, as a matter ,
l 14 of record, I would like to say that continues to be a 15 considered course of action but unfortunately one that has 16 been brought to us. !
t 17 MR. EICHORN: Bill, would you please cover the l 18 New Hampshire situation as far as the status of the full 19 power license?
I 20 MR. DERRICKSON: With respect to emergency
- 21 planning in New Hampshire plans were developed by the state j 22 of New Hampshire, filed with FEMA and an exercise conducted 23 in February of '86. Hearings are scheduled for June of I 24 this year, i
25 We intend to fully support those hearings and i-ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 hopefully get these matters behind us promptly.
2 In addition to that the congested pathway plan 3 for.the state of Maine was filed recently. That too is in 4 the loop, if you would.
5 As Ed indicated in the state of New Hampshire 6 irrespective of the outcome of the petition we have entered 7 into an agreement with the state of New Hampshire to j i
8 support a ten mile emergency planning program for that ;
i 9 state, which really brings us down to agenda item E, unless i 10 you have any questions or comments on the New Hampshire ,
11 emergency plans.
12 MR. NOVAK: Are there any members of the staff 13 that want to comment? !
i 14 I think you properly summarized it. Thank 15 you. ,
16 MR. DERRICKSON: On December 18, 1986, we 17 filed a petition with the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board .
18 under 2.758 and 5047 C requesting a waiver to the ten mile i 19 emergency planning rule based on our study we had submitted 20 to you in June of '86.
21 We know that there has been a lot of activity 22 or some activity. In fact I believe there is a technical 23 meeting scheduled for the 25th of this month between us and 24 you and perhaps your contractors, or whomever. What we are 25 really interested in here is trying to get an action plan ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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31 lt I developed for the prompt review of this petition, if you .
2- will.
3 Perhaps that can be done in conjunction with- .
4 the 25th meeting.
5 I might just ask for your comments'on where we 6 stand here and how and where we are going to proceed. ;
-7 MR. NOVAK: We do have some prepared comments 8 on the petition. So if you would like to hear them now.
t 9 MR. DERRICKSON: Yes.
10 MR. NOVAK I would like to ask Scott Newberry 11 of our staff to summarize briefly the status of our review.
9 12 You are direct that Brookhaven has provided us 13 with-their report of the review of your technical 14 documents. The waiver request of course represents the 15 summation of that.
16 Scott Newberry will try to identify those 17 activities that the staff feels yet have to be done, 18 dealing with each of the rationales you provided in your
. 19 waiver.
20 It is on that basis he will makes his 4
21 presentation. l 1
- 22 MR. NEWBERRY: I will wait a moment until you !
23 all have a copy of the vugraphs.
4
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24 What I intend to cover is the status of the 25 petition review, giving you the basic areas that have been ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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- - 1. covered in the review but primarily what still needs to be 2 done and when we expect to complete it.
f 3 The way I have organized these vugraphs is to 4 take the four major areas of the petition, or rationale, 5- and to tell you where the review stands for each one.
6 (Slide.)
7 MR. NEWBERRY: The first area has to do with 8 design basis accident analyses. We have reviewed your 9 submittal and are near the end of performing our own dose 10 calculations pertaining to this rationale. Based on what 11 we know now we expect to be getting to you very soon, I
, 1,2 expect to be talking about this next week regarding how we ,
13 will resolve remaining questions on this rationale, on-i 14 these calculations. ;
- 15 We expect that this shouldn't take too long.
i 16 We would estimate a schedule of June, 1987, to complete our 4 17 review in this area.
18 Please interrupt me if you have any questions. i
- 19 (Slide.)
20 MR. NEWBERRY: I have grouped rationales B and 21 C together because the areas that we still need to complete 22 really pertain to both of these rationales. Both have to 23 do with the probabilistic risk assessment, severe accident 24 area.
25 As you stated, Mr. Derrickson, Brookhaven has ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700 i
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+ 33 l' completed its report and these areas are based in large 2 part on Brookhaven's recommendations to us and our review 3 of their report.
l 4 There are five general areas that I list here. l 5 The first two are specific areas that just in our opinion 6 need to be completed and picked up from where Brookhaven 7 left off.
8 I wouldn't consider them to be major areas, .
9 but we do need to complete the work on the accidents at !
10 shutdown and containment bypass.
t 11 We also realize, as you know, your PRA was 12 submitted to us several years ago, review was started. A 13 substantial amount of work was done and we believe that we ,
14 also need in the next few months to pick up that review and i
15 become more familiar with it and the Seab-ook plant as it .
I 16 pertains to especial high the ability of the containment.
17 The last two areas, containment loads, induced .
I 18 steam generator tube rupture, deal with the, I will use the 19 term phenomonology or the challenge to the containment i 20 building resulting from a severe accident.
21 We believe that these two issues or areas are 22 the most significant of this group. We see significant 23 interaction that is going to have to take place between us 24 and your people to resolve these areas. I 25 If you would like to go into --
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1 MR. FEIGENBAUM: On the November, '87 2 schedule, could you tell us a little bit about what. that is
-3 based on and are there actions.the applicant can take to 4- help expedite your review and improve that schedule?
5 MR. NEWBERRY: The basis for the November, '87 6 date was taking each of the issues that need to be on this
, 7 list.
8 Let me pick an example, accidents at shutdown, 9 where we see questions where we would need help from you to 10 understand your analysis, to help us complete our review, 11 and we don't see that part of the review to be limiting.
12 That could perhaps be done in the nearer term.
13 Moving on down the end of the list in terms of 14 resolution or certainly completing our review on the
- 15 containment loads that challenge containment in the areas j
' 16 of dry containment heating or the challenge to the steam 17 generator tubes from a severe accident, at a minimum we are .
18 going to have to have significantly more dialogue and more ,
I
[
19 work on our part to complete our review. !
I- l
! 20 At this point I think I could summarize by 21 saying we, based on the work we have done so far, don't
> 10 22 have the confidence that your submittal says that you have i
23 in the containment surviving those challenges. So we see j 24 quite a bit more work to be done in those two areas.
25 MR. STET,LO: Let me at least point out, I
(
I i
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- g 't 6, 35 1 think when we have these discussions you will see there are 2 some things that you can do that can preclude having some 3 of these problems, like direct heating issue, at least an 4 ' option.to look at accident mitigation procedures to open up j 5 the PORV at the right time, then you never have the j f
6 challenge. ,-
7 If that alternative works out that clearly can 8 ease up in terms of trying to deal with very complex !
9 phenomena and issues, preclude consideration af them by j l
10 being able to preclude the event. -, !
11 That is a rather detailed technical 12 discussion. --
13 MR. FEIGENB AUM: We would like to kick off 14 that discussion at the March 25 meeting. We_bave 15 suggestions or ideas of how we might be able to help you 16 resolve these issues and possibly improve the : schedule. ,
17 MR. EICHORN: We want to be sure you folks 18 understand we will commit any one of our people to help any
, 19 consultant we can get to help to expedite the schedule.
20 All we are doing is looking for ways to be able to do it. .
i 21 In all questions, we have tried to help them i 22 look at it. l 23 MR. STELLO: Good. Let's get together on it 24 quickly.
25 MR. DERRICKSON: If you give us the questions, 1
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36 1 we will do something, give you the information needed to 2 answer the questions. We are not sure what they are.
3 MR. STELLO: We are not sure. ;
4 MR. DERRICKSON: W(-know. How well.I know.
5 MR. NEWBERRY: .I think I should say we will 6 make sure we have .the right people at the meeting this l
7 coming Wednesday.
8 (Slide.) :
9 MR. NEWBERRY: The last of the four rationale l I
10 has to do with being able to show the ability to expand 11 necessary response beyond the EPZ. I think my vugraph is i
12 self-explanatory there.
13 MR. DERRICKSON: Okay, this, as I understand 14 it, is related to criterion 4?
15 MR. NEWBERRY: Yes, sir; that's correct.
16 MR. DERRICKSON: I guess there are ranges of I l'
17 things we can do.
l 18 Obviously, we have told you on the record and 19 we have an agreement in New Hampshire that detailed I 20 emergency planning will be done for the entire ten miles 21 and in fact at nowhere less than two miles will emergency a
22 planning be done because the plant is over two miles from 23 the state of Massachusetts. So we have detailed plans 24 between one mile and two miles now agreed to with the state 25 of New Hampshire.
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- 37 1 MR. STELLO: Yes.
2 MR. DERRICKSON: So I guess in satisfying l 1
3 criterion four, if what you are asking for here, I don't 4 want to lead you into anything, are detailed emergency I 5 plans in the State of Massachusetts. ,
6 Am I interpreting this correctly?
7 MR. JORDAN: The fact you have no plans in l l
8 Massachusetts, there is not a planning base to extend is I 9 think the point, being blunt.
10 MR. DERRICKSON: Let me reread this. We draw j 11 no plans in Massachusetts because the State of i
12 Massachusetts refuses to submit plans. However, there were 13 plans written by che state of Massachusetts, but not !
14 submitted.
15 MR. JORDAN: Right. Understand, assuming 16 there was a reduced EPZ, it didn't include Massachusetts, 17 there is no agreement, no plan, no understanding of 18 communication, then it's very hard to extend or give you 19 credit for having ability to take those ad hoc protective 20 actions in Massachusetts. ,
21 MR. BROWN: I understand we don't want to get l
i 22 into a detailed debate.
23 MR. JORDAN: Right. I am just identifying the 24 problem more clearly, I hope.
25 MR. BROWN: I would like to point out under i
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I criteria four or rationale four there is no plan for mile 2 11 where there is a ten mile plan.
3 MR. STELLO: That's true.
4 MR. JORDAN: Correct. But you have a ten mile 5 plan and, therefore, one can say that there is a basis on 6 which to extend it beyond in the state for which you have a 7 plan.
1 8 We have other states where we have borders 9 like that. I think that's the staff' concern.
10 MR. NEWBERRY: That is all I have on the i i
i 11 petition, gentlemen.
i 7 1,2 MR. NOVAK We will, I think at the next !
13 meeting, all of these meetings between ourselves are l
14 transcribed, we will be as clear and candid as we can with ;
i 15 regard to rationale and our views, next week's meeting. ;
16 Also, in going back with regard to some of the :
17 tougher technical issues we have to deal with, I think if i
18 you feel we are not expressing ourselves clearly as we 11
- . 19 should, please let us know. We will let you know what our
- 20 particular areas of concern are with regard to each of the l i 21 rationales.
22 MR. STELLO: Let me ask a question that is 23 clearly one that has come up from time to time. There is
] 24 clearly a Massachusetts plan but not submitted. Tnere is 25 also the option that the licensee can take that plan or any ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700 l
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l other plan and develop his own plan. i 1
I 2 If that is to be done, we are talking i
i 3 schedules, if that she is going to drop, it would be useful l i
4 for all of us to.get that she dropped last year. This 5 year, this week, next month. j 6 You know, it's going to happen, the faster we ,
i 7 get that one on the table, I think the better off we all 8 are, too.
9 It seems like a fair question, then, are you 10 giving any consideration to submitting either the ,
11 Massachusetts plan as modified by you or one that you have '
12 of your own or whatever?
13 MR. DERRICKSON: Well, I can give you the best 14 answer. It's a tough question. We have looked at ranges 15 of options.
16 If we were to submit a Massachusetts plan, r 17 today we are not sure what it needs to look like.
18 MR. STELLO: I know another that exists like 19 it I can refer you to.
20 MR. DERRICKSON: I am --
I 21 MR. STELLO: There is one other facility that l 1
22 has written --
23 MR. DERRICKSON: Oh, we understand. But every 24 situation is unique in terms of localities and particular 25 facilities and so forth.
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i MR. STELLO: Oh, true. !
1 2 MR. DERRICKSON: We have studied this'and we 1
3 continue to look at all options. There are some problems 4 that have developed with Long Island with LILCO submitting
'S their own planning as you know. !
l 6 We try to take that into consideration, too. j i
7 It's not as easy as sitting down and writing a plan for 8 Massachusetts. It involves a lot more than that. !
9 We evaluated alternatives. Frankly, based on 10 our technical view of the plant our best alternative that i
11 we saw last year was to file the exception request to 12 reduce the emergency planning zone to a mile.
13 It's technically sound, we believe that we 14 will be able to prove it. If there is anything you need in 15 the way of information or whatever, we will be able to 16 deliver it.
l 17 I am convinced that that is the correct thing 18 to do here, technically. And we have chosen that course.
19 And so that is kind of where we are today.
20 MR. BROWN: One other point. We don't know 21 what the final rule-making is going to look like, exactly, j 22 what the procedures that are built into it are going to 1
23 look like or even when it's going to come out. But in f 24 anticipation of that we are in the process --
t 25 MR. STELLO: What I said had nothing to do l , -
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'1 -with-the proposed rule change? hhether or,no.t there ic a
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2-change -in the rule or not, the' goestion remeens~ because 3 then,you are making an argument with respect to the l' 4- ' technicalbasisupnwhichtoextrapslatear.ddevelopa[ ., ['
5 emergency plan which is the issue bedhre,ja techniyall g 6 Then we have a full ten mile
- EPE plan -- we l
,, . N. ;
7 have a fully adjudicated EPZ for'the, state of New s j
t,
.8 Hampshire. That is ongoing. .
l.
\.. , ,. , ,
4 9 When you now lodh at the state of ,
10 Massachusetts, have a plan for that state, c'oebine that 9 \
11 withthe,argumentswithrespecttothewaiver{Arequesh and 12 as it relates to the issue we just discussed a' teor.ent ago ,
\ \
1
-13 dealing with the ad/ hoc issue, all of tbose become easier, 14 technical issues to deal with when takeri in tot' a lity rather e pi
, 't , s, ;, 3 15 than taken one at a t'ime. At least that isgaitechnical i -
, 4/
' I, l 16 view. i q;
,q 17 It also;is in my view critical wi.in' respect to
. 18' timing. If you were to wait for example for the new rule L
t 19 to come out, that is a timing issue. That. has got a 60-day' ' !
?
i 20 comment period, comments are analyzed, it has to be l
e, 2
4, g
{l 21 reconsidered. ( -
if 4 22 My experience with rule-making has never been 'z ,
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4 23 such that it's ever done quickly. But there is nothing , , f. . ,
O 24 that I know of that precludes going forward without a rule, /
, T -7 25 I said that like I was a lawyer, I am not.
4 e 4
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1 If any lawyer disagrees with what I said. I 2' think he waved his. hand.
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3 Is it all right?'
I t 4 All right. At least.those considerations are l 5 somet?ning we ought to get on the table and make sure you !
V l 6 weigh it, think about it very carefully and make that 7 judgment.
5 8 It certainly impacts our workload, both in a ,
g2 I 9 positive way and a negative way. The faster the decision 10 is made the better off we.all are. ,
11 MR. DERRICKSON: Can I just turn this around 12 ' and ask you a straight question?
a ,
13 , g MR. STELLO: Sure.
h k> 14 " '
MR. DERRICKSON: .I really want to understand b '{t g e,l 15 t
, where we are all coming from.
a 16 ~t Are you in effect telling us that putting
> / i
.j.h'thesedetailedplansintoyouforthestateof 17
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18 4 Massachusetts would enhance or in fact support criterion
, 19 four?
2G [IMR. STELLO: Would they help to support it? I 1
think clearly.
21} (
22 MR. DERRICKSON: Is that the basis on which 23 l you are asking --
\
24 MR. STELLO: No. No, that was an additional
- 25 consideration.
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43 1 I wasn't recommending or suggesting, but r
2 getting it on the table that that clearly is another issue.
3 MR. DERRICKSON: I see.
s 1,
4 MR. STELLO: If six months from now we are l l
-/ rv y(' r.
5 going to come around and say, well, here's the state plan, j
'N ' 6 Now take that on and let's start getting that under -- out 1
of the way, that obviously is an additional workload for
~
7 l 8 us. 1 4 9 If we are going to have to do it I would just 10 as scon do it'and get on with it. If we are not going to 11 do it, I guess I would just as soon know that and get on 12 with that, too.
13 But I kind of get the impression it may -- it 14 may even come. At least I would like you to think about 4 15 it.. If that is the way it 'ought'to go, let's go that way.
. ,1 - !
16 If not, that is fine, too.
17 MR. TURK: Let me tack on a footnote to what j v !
^> 18 .Mr. Stello said. ;
I i ?
'19 The petition as it stands now for the fourth 20 rationale has-one line in it. It stands to reason we can 21 extrapolate b yond the one mile to take care of -- to go l 22 out further. That doesn't say very much.
23 If there is a basis, whether it's the 24 , Massachusetts plan which Massachusetts developed or some 25 utility plan or something else, it would be nice for us to i
d
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I know what it is that gives you the confidence to say that 2 you can extrapolate beyond the one mile your ad hoc plan.
l 3 MR. BROWN: All right. The fact that the 4 state of Massachusetts has a generic plan that encompasses 5 emergency plans for three other operating nuclear plants, j 6 we felt should have some bearing on this. l 1
i 7 MR. STELLO: Let's not debate-it here. I am 8 sure it does. Whether that is enough or.not, whether the 9 judgment can be made on the strength of that argument or 10 that and other arguments to the subcommittee, I don't think l
11 this is the kind of meeting to try to go through that I
12 rationale. i 13 MR. BROWN: Sure.
'14. MR. STELLO: I want to make sure the air is 15 clear. It's clear'to everybody there is another issue that 16 hangs out there. What about it? Where does it stand? I :
t !
17 want to make sure we got it on the table.
18 MR. DERRICKSON: Let us, let me say this.
19 There will be several meetings held starting with next 20 Wednesday's meeting. This should be the aubject of a i
21 technical / legal discussion on the fourth rationale to be 22 sure we all understand each other's concerns. I would 23 tell --
24 MR. STELLO: I think I would invite also, I 25 think the lawyers ought to sit down as well.
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45 1 ~ MR.-DERRICKSON: Exactly.
2 MR. STELLO: And sort out procedurally what il all that may or may not be, too.
4- MR. DERRICKSON: With respect to our 5 submitting an emergency plan on behalf of the state of mass 6 we have pondered this at great length.
7 Frankly, to be perfectly honest about it, we 8 were quite concerned that.you all would take that as a 9 signal that, here is away to handle the emergency planning I
10 and the petition need not be reviewed any further and all 11 work on it would be dropped.
12 Frankly, we don't helieve nuhmitting a plan 13 'for Massachusetts all by itself in conjunction with the 14 currently accepted plan in the state of New Hampshire will 15 get us there in a timely fashion. i i
'16 Hence, the petition came in, and I think we f
17 need to have some assurances here that whatever we do, it's I
18 not going to impede the review of of our waiver request, no 19 matter what else. That is of primary importance to us at 20 this point.
21 MR. STELLO: I guess I tend to say what I 22 think. So I ought to say what is on my mind.
23 Technically, being able to combine the 24 strength of the legal argument with the fact that there is 25 a licensing emergency plan that goes out ten miles in the i
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i 1 state of Massachusetts I~would think would allow a much 2 better, much more persuasive argument. The combination of f 13 j 3 those things being from an overall technical point of view, 4 better. That is on my mind. You seem to make it sound as j 5 though it is either/or. I don't know why it needs to be 6 either/or. ;
i 7 MR. DERRICKSON: What I am hearing is, if I am ;
8 hearing correctly, a commitment from you, Vick Stello, that 9 if we do something like that, that the petition will move 10 forwaEd expeditiously.
11 MR. STELLO: Nothing I said in any way_was intcndcd to detrcet from cur review of the petitlen. !
}- 12 I 13 hope I didn't-leave that impression. We continue our ,
14 review. i i
15 MR. DERRICKSON: You didn't. We are concerned 16 because of limited resources. People's time has to be !
,- i 17 spent on something.
18 MR. STELLO: My point is that I think the 19 amount of effort that has to be put in looking and doing 20 these together rather than serially I think is also a 21 resource saving. Let's not debate it.
- 22 MR. DERRICKSON
- I appreciate it.
23 MR. EICHORN: Thank you, very much.
24 Appreciate it.
25 MR. STELLO: Next item.
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l' MR. DERRICKSON ' I guess that really covers 2 item E.
3 MR. STELLO: We are up to F, I think.
4 -
MR. DERRICKSON: We are up to F. l 5 With respect to the rule-making I.would just L i
6 like to make a couple of comments. That I do believe your 7 effort to modify the emergency planning rule as you have 8 done by the proposal you gave to the Commissioners is to be ;
9 commended.
10 I think certainly it helps clarify a fuzzy i
11 rule that was put into place in 1980, and to let you know l
12 that there are folks with you, I offer a few editorials ;
i 13 from the Union Leader in Manchester, New Hampshire, to the i
14 New York' Times. Then when we do those together we are i 15 doing all right. I would like to put that on the record.
16 MR. STELLO: I am not sure which pile is 17 bigger, those for or against. -I have heard quite a few 18 comments the day of the Commission meeting.
19 MR. DERRICKSON: I was there.
20 MR. EICHORN: Mr. Stello you don't weigh those 21 for weight, you weigh them for comments.
22 (Laughter.)
23 MR. STELLO: Okay.
24 MR. DERRICKSON: The only other item on the 25 agenda here is your reorganization. I know that you have ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700 l
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- I reorganized based on what you see as your need to keep up 2 with the times, and that's fine.
3 We would just like to be sure there is no 4 impact on the ~ schedule of activities or licensing process 5- .for Seabrook. In whatever you do, that is our only request 6 MR. STELLO: Tom Murley is here and he has ,
7 assured me with Jim Sniezek, sitting right next to him, it j 8 won' t happen. Indeed, he just did. i i
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. MURLEY: I don't anticipate any problems.'
11 MR. STELLO: We understand there are projects 12 for'which thers is an awful lot going on. We cre being 13 very mindful.
14 We are doing the best we possibly can. If ,
15 there is any problem, you see any problem, give a call and 16 let us be aware of-it.
17 MR. DERRICKSON: For the record, when is Dr.
I 18 Murley assuming his new position?
19 MR. STELLO: Your announcement says on or 20 about the 15th of April. We are in the process of 21 negotiating with the union. We want to give them 30 days j i
t 22 to look at it. I believe that is up about the 12th of 23 April, I think.
24 MR. MURLEY: I am planning on showing up April 25 13.
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- 49 1 MR.'DERRICKSON: It's not a Friday, is it?
2 MR. JORDAN: Monday.
3 MR. DERRICKSON - That is all we have except 4 Mr. Eichorn.has some closing remarks he would like to make.
5 MR. STELLO: Okay.
6 MR. EICHORN: I had a. lot of closing remarks
- 7. prepared.. I don't see really the necessity for me to 8 belabor and go through all these.
.9 I think I want to leave with you the 10 impression that you heard before. We feel the power is p
I 11 necessary and the need for this power is real today. <
12 Ritt the other thing we would like to leave
> /
'13 with you is that the owners want to resolve all of these ;
14 ' issues.
i l 15 We are ready and willing-to commit whatever j 16 resources are necessary on our part to do the speed did I 17 resolution of these outstanding ouestions, and we expect l
18 and hope that you can do likewise.
L 19 MR. STELLO: Well, let me assure you, we want l
20 to do the best we can to resolve issues. I think we have ;
l l.
I 21 made significant progress, that we are at the point on I 22 Seabrook where the emergency planning issue is essentially l l
l 23 the only issue.
24 While there are clearly some administrative 25 processes yet to be completed including Commission i
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I decision, the board, we will get those decisions 1*
2 eventually, we will know how they come out. But that will 3 leave us with the most difficult complex issue.
4 We are prepared and have committed to review 5 whatever proposals we wish to make and however you wish to 9 6 make them, we will find a way to get the resources to do 7 what we need to do. !
8 That, however, does not relieve us from the i 9 responsibilities of satisfying our regulations. We are !
10 satisfied the facility, save the emergency planning issue,-
11 is safe.
- 1,2 I have not heard anyone who has suggested 13 contrary to me. I am persuaded.that is a fairly unanimous 14 conviction of the staff.
15 But our rules require us to deal with 16 emergency planning and that we must. How leng and what are-17 the right processes to get there, I don't know. I am sure 18 you have struggled with that issue as well as we have.
19 We are prepared to continue to deal with it in 20 whatever form it takes. We will do our best. But it's 21 going to be a tough road.
22 Bear with it, be patient, we will do the best i 23 we can to get the review done as quickly as we can but we l
24 have got to do it right.
25' If we try and rush and get a review that l
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+- 51-1 doesn't stand up, we have failed to do our jobzand I don't' 2 think we have done the country any favor if we' don't do an t
3 adequate regulatory job.
.I 4 So we have got te dc it and do it right. And 5 we are going to do it. We will make sure we get the right j i
6 people to'do a good job and move on. :
7 We urge you, though, to comment on the data. f 8 I would like you to see'that very carefully. I seriously 9 agree, time is important, too, because it does affect our 10 resources and that is when it starts to hurt us.
11- When we can do things in parallel, it makes a 12 lot more relaxed atmosphere than trying to do things in 13 serial.
14 Plus I would not minimize the impact that 15 would have on criterion four, too. I don't want to leave 16 you with the impression it doesn't relate, it's 17 insignificant. There is a relationship. Certainly we 18 would go a long way in resolving that issue.
19 That is all I had to say.
20 MR. DERRICKSON: One other question. On the 21 rule change that you have processed to the commissioners do j 22 you have any feel for the timing on when a revised rule 23 might be issued?
24 MR. STELLO: The only thing I know it when the 25 comment period expires. From then on, how long it takes, I ACE FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. Washington, D.C. (202) 347-3700
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1 don't know.
2 We probably will be able to.do an analysis of li 3 the comments and get that into the Commission fairly l 4 quickly.
5 The real issue will be how quickly the 6 Commission can handle it. I think the comment period --
4 7 'the 8th, 3rd, 5th, somewhere in there.
8 MR. EICHORN: On behalf of all the owners here 9 we appreciate you and the staff coming to the meeting and
.10 being open and candid and frank with us. We will do 11 everything we possibly can to- expedite our portion of the 12 procedure.
13 We share like you do, we don't want to build a 14 plant that isn't safe. We think we have got the safest ;
15 plant in the country. j 16 MR. STELLO: It also itas to meet the rules.
, 17 MR. EICHORN: Oh, yes. ,
18 MR. STELLO: Thank you.
19 (Whereupon, the meeting was adjourned at 3:25 2
20 p.m.)
21 1
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, CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY ~ COMMISSION in the matter of: .
NAME OF PROCEEDING: MANAGEMENT MEETING BETWEEN PUBLIC SERVICE COMPANY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE AND NRC STAFF TO DISCUSS COMMON PROBLEMS t
DOCKET NO.: 50-443 PLACE: BETHESDA, MARYLAND DATE: WEDNESDAY, MARCH.18, 1987 were he.d as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
( sigt) 2//4 (TYPED) [
CRAIG L. KNOWLES Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Reporter's Affiliation
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