ML20205A167
| ML20205A167 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 04/16/1979 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8504250445 | |
| Download: ML20205A167 (70) | |
Text
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3 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
I IN THE MATTER OF:
CLOSED MEETING DISCUSSION OF TriREE-MILE ISLAND INVESTIGATION PERSONNEL ASPECTS Place -
Was hin g en, D. c.
Date -
Monday, 16 A.pril 1979 pag,
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(2021:47 3700 ACE - FIDER.tL REPOR"' IRS. INC.
l Ofjic:alReporten 444 Ncrth C::itel Street weshinsten, 0.C. 00001 8504250445 790416 PDR 10CFR NATIONWIDE COVERAGE. D AILY l
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."*Il 2
'iUCLEAR RE'iULATORY CO'tMISSION
.i DISCUSSION OF THREE-MILE ISLAND INVESTIGATION PERSONNEL ASPECTS
'l 6
7 -l Closed Meeting 3!
i 9!.
I 10 Room 1116 1717 H Street, N.N.
II Nashington, D.C.
12 Mondav, 16 Acril 1979 13 l 14 The meeting was called to order, cursuant to 15 !
notice, at 2:20 o.m.,
VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner, t
6
- ggiding, 17 PRESENT
3 JOSEPH M. HEIDRIE, CHAIR'dA'i 19 i
- l VICTOR GILINSKY, CO*?iISSIONER 20 :
l RICHARD XENNEDY, COMMISSIONER 21
- i PETER BRADFORD, CO'iMISSIONER 22,
.TOHN AHEACII, COMMISSIONER i
23 '
Also Present:
24 4 een Geocrten. Inc.
Messrs, Bic] Wit and **ilnerin
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_P _'4. O_ C E _E D _I _N.G S
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COINESSIO:ER GILINSKY: Ne are iust continuing ti previous meeting.
- j G. SICKNIT: That's right.
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There is one matter.
N han vou closed, vou decided i as a basis for closure, vou would use Exemntion 5 and 6
l 7!
Exemption 9 (b).
You never reallv decided to use Exemotion 6, l
8l which is the eersonal.
9 COT 4ISSIO:ER GILINSKY: I think that is what would 10 I
apply here.
l II
- u. SICKNIT: Yes.
12 l I think it might be useful to indicate that vou are l
I3 closing on the basis of 6.
I Id And that some of the previous meetings have been I3 closed on that basis.
I 16 !l COTCSSIONER GILINSKY:
Do we need a vote on it?
II ]
COTt!SSIO 2R 3RADFORD:
I believe if we need a is )l i
i vote, we need to do it in coen session.
- ll I9 '
Don't von have to state your bases in coen 20 '
session?
2I h
.E. 3ICICT :
No.
l1 22j C.9 T4AN EENDRIE: That's actuallv a nonmeetina, 23 'i isn't it?
3 9
24 i
%. SICK'CT:
Yes.
- ....i stew eri. inc.
23 COT!!SSIC12R 3*ADFORD:
! thoucht vou had to have I
I
f' 3
s/, ',
o rA i
vour totes for closed meetings in oeen sessions.-
2 CHAIR'%N EI'MRII:
Listen, whv don't we note 2
clear 1v. en the transcric.t that we are all here, that Vic 4
4; continues to be Acting Chairman to the' Agencv, and I think he l
1 3 'i, ought for several davs until I'm -- until I feel I can manage it r
6 :i a full dav.
a i
7 So, Vic will chair the neeting.
4 30
%.3ICKr4IT:
And I iust think it will be useful
- u.
94 also to indicate that vou are voting on the basis of Exemotion 10 6 to close this meeting, a nd that crevious meetings which o
II ;
dealt with cersonnel matters were closed in cart on that basis.
II i COTiISSIO iER GILDISKY:
Can ve co backwards that way?
h 13 !!
- iR. BICK' FIT :
Yes.
la
- COTiISSIONER GILINSKY:
f4 ell, I nrocose that we vote'tc 15 close this meeting on that basis.
16 CEAIR'.iAN EE:iDRIE : Yes.
17 COT 4ISSIONER 3R'QFORD:
Yes.
13 COTi!SSIONER AHEARNE:
Ave.
19 COT 4ISSIONER KENNEDY:
If that is what the subiect an 4s.
21 '
Is that what the subiect is?
22 COTiISSIONER GIZINSKY: Yes,that's what the 22 s c.biect is, is intended to be.
24 CITi!SSIOMER EN'iEDY:
'fe ll, let ne iust note tha:
3p=pra R$30"t*t,l*.
II didn' t know that until this mornine.
4,,i, 4
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CO'CCSSIO ;ER AHEARNE:
Nor did I.
2*
CO'NISSIO :ER KEN'iEDY:
So anv discussion oi names i
2; that I would croocse to have today would be on the most i
4' tentative basis, since I.will have some --
l i
1 5 51 CCEISSIO GR AHEARNE-we did have some indication 1;
6:
at the Friday nesting we were going to think about where we 7'h would go.
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OC.WISSIONER 1GNNEDY:
Yes.
But I never heard what 9l the cciclusion was.
E 10 j CC WISSIONER GILINSKY:
I iust suggested todav I )..i that we have a meeting.
12 COMISSIONER KDNEDY:
To discuss names, as I 13 l gather.
i 14 b OC'fiISSIONER GILINSKY:
Right.
15 ICWISSIONER EDNEDY:
I'm not orecared to discuss 16 names.
I'll be glad to listen to discussion.
17 I will out some on the table, but certainiv nothinn la like a list which I would have out together if I knew last 19 '
Fridav afterncen, for examole, or even Saturdsv, that that was 20 going to be the subiect of todav's meeting.
21 IC'CIISSIONER GILINSKY:
I don't think an't of cs knew.
22 II'f!ISSIONlR KE!PEDY:
Okav.
.23 IEAIR'nN HI:JRII:
I think some discussion.is 24 certainly in crier.
.V.d I think we all would feel at this
.,. n ew e.,i. re.
25 scage it's creli-inar. and not coming to decision todav.
1 5
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I !l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That's fine.
nm 9
2' I just want to be sure of the basis.
I 9
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The coint is simolv to 1
t 4
bring each other up to date about what we're thinking.
i i
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Fine.
i 6'
COMMISSIONER AHEAVTE:
Could I understand where i
7 we came out -- where you came out that'you were going to have 8!
checked with Joe and Peter after Friday's meeting?
i 9 :,
And, what was the result of that' l
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Check what' e
II COMMISSIONER AMEARNE: Nell, when we left Fridav's i
12!
meeting we had left it with, "Here's the direction we are t
13 '
going to go in."
Dick had one, and I had another.
i Id l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I talked with Deter and 15 Joe and they can cresent their own views.
16 COMMISSIONE2 3RADFoo.D:
I was inclined to the i
17 '!
director structure rather than the canel structure.
Even for a.
18 '
a factfinding tvoe of a venture.
t 19 "
AndI think, basicallv, just because it seemed to 20 me easier to get it going quickiv if we were looking for a 21 director and a deoutv ourselves, than if we were looking for a
4 22 three-=anel or five-canel nenbers who would then go out 23 :l and find a director and decuty.
24 It seemed to me there were other wavs to get EM t,3 R$04 *'t't. l eC.
25 diverse viewcoints, including the President's Comnission, en the
E 6
,4 1-1
?.5 actual material. And it's just more important to get it started quick 1.
2:
CEAIRMAN Hr:DRIE:
I think mv feeling has been, it sounds to me like it could work either wav. There are I
't 4
some advantages both ways that have been cited..
i i
Si 7
think decision in that direction will orobablv l'
.I 6 !i begin tv shape more naturally as we discuss some of the
.I
- l 70 carticulars, =ossible cecole, and other things going along n
7.
5 't It seems to me, vou know, that the direction we are
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_ going is a reasonable one.
E hasn't foreclosed anv alternatives.
il 10 ]
COMMISSIONER AHEL.RNE:
That's what I wanted to II f.!get some sense of.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: And what we have done here ---
13 J
at least I was looking to trv to scare un some nanes, and Len 1
P 14.'
has come up with a list.
1 15 We haven' t fixed on anv carticular discieline, a
16 whether-it is a technical cerson or lawver.
I'd nerhans let 17 that emerge on, veu know, how the list looks and who, in fact, 13 is available.
II i Len has come uo with a number of lavvers. Maybe 2C '
you could run down that list and sav something about them.
21 '
M.R. BICKNIT:
I think we ought to start with vours, 4,
-m 4*
Steve.
22 '
MR. EILPERI'i:
Okav.
s 24 Len had asked me to draw un a verv creliminarv
- :r. era memor m te:.
2' list a while back, which I did --
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COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:
Stovo -- Ono question I
about that in fact any names:
2 It seems to me that one fundamental criteria is 3
that it's got to be someone who can come to work at least 4i part time-verv quickly, and full time withinsmonth.
5 Do we know whether that's true of anv --
6:
MR. EILEERIN:
I haven't socken to any of these w
7.
- v. eco. le k
3' COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It seems to me one of the i
9; things that ought to emerge from this meetinc is whether or 10 j not we are going to contact people iust to see whether thev II i are interested, or whether thev are votential candidates.
I2 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: That's fine.
It does seem to.
t I3 ;l me that that's a criterion you would want to ask at the Id beginning, and if the answer is no, vou go on to the next one.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSEY:
Right.
16 I didn' t want us to go --
17 COT 1:SSIONER KENNEDY:
Now, we have visuali:ed 18 this director, deoutv-director as full eine neocle, I assume.
I9 COT 1ISSIONER AEEARNE: I certainly do.
t.
0 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
4 21 CCT1ISSIONER AHEARNE:
It doesn't make any sense,
-,a etherwise.
23 CEAIRMNT EENDRIE: Yes.
If he's cart time, vou've 2*
go: a board of one.
- m.. new res. sec.
II COMMISSIONER AEEARNE: That iust wouldn' t be useful.
8 8
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1' CEAITIAN :.ENDRIE: And in that cue vnu would 2
want to have a board of several, and go that other route.
2
- u. EILPERIN: So whv don't I iust run down this list t
4 verv euicklv, md if you want to ask me nuestions about anv i
5 :j of these people I'll answer to the best I can.
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First eerson -- this was in no carticular order, it,
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was just as I thought of them.
3 The first person is;,
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M 11 CO'MISSIONER BRADFORD : Steve, can vou indicate as I2 l vou go aloner if you know whether any of these necole have 13 f any t echnical background at all.
At least it would be I
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worth asking if we get around to calling them.
15 l
.tR. EILPERIN: Right.
'd' Che oniv cerson I know of who has technical background is,
I8 i
CC'i'1ISSIOER ENNEDY:
Nho?
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to hi.t in RR.IILPERIN:
20 a little whil a.
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COTiISSIONER BRADFORD:
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I MR. EILPERIN:
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i CO?NISSIONER KENNEDY:
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He does.l.
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CO'NISSIO:ER AHEARNE: Am these in anv sense an
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order of criority?
4; MR. EILPERIN: No, these were iust as names occurred ;
5l to me.
After doing un the list,the eerson whom I thought t
6,.
seemed to have credentials, or the kind of credentials that 7'
would be most helpful, is this eerson.
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But his name was suctgested to me by a friend, /,
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9 25 COT'.ISSIO:2R AEIAR'3 :
What is he doing?
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.'n. EILPERIN:
2.
2 CO MISSIOrr.,R 3RADFORD:
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'iR. EILPERIN:
I just don't know.-
l' 6-I don't know. Ne've done uo a short, ereliminarv 7). memorandt:s -- just in-house memorandum -- and rieneral Counsel's:
8 Office felt what sort of conflict of interest orincieles l
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9 micht be acclicable.
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He seems to be a cerson who I certain1v would think 18 '
it worth contacting.,=
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24 The other eerson I had en the list
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25 CHAIeMAN IINDRIE-
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MR. EILPERIN:
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The last eerson I have on the list is, i.
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"n I think Kenly is a 'Tood cerson.
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tiho is Jordan 's decutv.
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asked hi:n if the choice were between Kenly and Jordan, who he would pick and without hesitation he said.Tordan]
6 7i So I would certainiv --
t 8 tl COT 4ISSIONER AHEATTE:
i 9.i 10 MR. EILPERIN:
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CO'OiISSIO:ZR GILI'ISKY:
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II I-COT 4ISSIONER AEEAT!E:
Oh, the guv that we --
12 CO:NISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes.
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v i 13 I, And I gave another list to Len.
Idon'thavethat.[,
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14 il MR. BICKWIT:
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t-15 COT 4ISSIONER GILIiSKY:
I'm not sure I know their 16 E affiliations.
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17 9
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COTIISSIONER KEmiEDY: Nhich one was that?
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v.R. BITCT:
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COTCSSIO!ER 3?ADFORD:
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2I V.R. SICKWIT:
Right.
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CHAIR'4AN EE!TDRIE:
Let's see.
Il Could I have the names acain?
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25 "R. BICK'CT:
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2 COM'4ISSIONER KE?DIEDY:
2 MR. SICKWIT:
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- 5 4C.r_AIRM.h'i HENDRIE:
6' sim. 3ICKNIT:
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II CO.'OCSSIONER KET7EDY*
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13 rnwTccTnurn c.Tr.TucTev:
14 15 COMMISSIONER KENMIDY:
16 CF. AIR'4AN EENDRIE
., 1-I3 COM'iISSIONER KENNEDY: Yes.
I?
Mo.. BICKNIT:
Before we eso further, did vou 4
2" mantion at the conclusion of vour memo that.l.
was the 2'
best --
22
't:,. IILPERIN:
I think I did sav that.
...J 22
.sem, aem m. s-:.
9
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.i I think it would be definitel-
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worth talking to him.
2 COW.ISSIONER GILINSKY: Also, a whole bunch o# na"te s 2
of technical people.
4l CO.TiISSIONER KENNEDY: Before we leave lawvers, there:
5 was one that I had thought of.
I will have some others, but 6i there was one I thought of, I
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CHAIR' TAN EE'TORIE:
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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
s' Andheiscurrentiv(
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13 i CO WISSIONER AHEARNE: (
g 14.i COHISSIONER KENNEDY:
Okav.
15 -
16 '
17
!!R. SICETIT:
Vic asked me to find out something 18 - about the people on his list.
I can give vou what little 19 shreds I have.
- c COWISSIONER GILINSKY
- 'Nhv don't you do that.
21 MR. BICKWIT:
e 22
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CO?OtISSIONER AHEAR'E:
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CO HISSIONER GILINSKY:
Thev're out.
7 MR. BICT.iIT:
All rinht.
3
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IO COMMISSIO!ER AHEMNE:
I think we all know.
II -
MR. BICr4IT:
Okav.
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The fear was that he might not be as accressive I3 a prosecutor as might be desired.
14 COMMISSIO:ER AHEARNE: That's a verv interesting C or.7.en t.
13 What is the eerspective that you had in mind for II the person you want?
. iR. BIC:CiIT:
I don't know.
What I had in mind?
II COMMISSIO1E't AHEARE:
Yes.
The comment of "mich:
22 not be the tvoe of prosecutor as desired".
23
'iR. 3ICICi!T: What is meant is, in delvinc into the facts, might not go as aqqressivelv as is necessarv.
seun asee-, t : :.
Ah.
19
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I U. SICK!CT:
I wasn't really assumine 9
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CO:?iISSIOTr R 3RADFORD: Len, ic +9.se cor.ments 2
reflect hv and large one person, two cecole, six cecole?
.I 1
4,I MR. BICKITIT:
One eerson.
One or two.
3; I certainly wouldn't go on the basis --
'li 6
XR. EILPERIN: Len, you also mentioned to te that 7
3 a.
t 9l E. BICK*iIT: Yes.
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16 I7 So I think this is sig:iicant. p -
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22 I think that's an immortant factor.
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00T1ISSIOTR 3RADFORD:
'ihen vou sav the environ-l I'
mental cer= unity, who specifically would have knew. hin?
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3 COWISSIONER BRADFORD:
hwouldhavebeen 6'
COMMISSIOER KENNEDY:
t 7
a name that I would have thought about as well.
He is an 3
extremely-able. fellow.
9 MR. SICKNIT:
Yes, I think the world of him.
p 10 :
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
He's at l
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.W II i M*.. BICKNIT:
Right.
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14 COT 4ISSIONER GILINSKY: Someone suggested,,
15 16
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a 17 CO.'ti!SSIONER KZNNEDY:
He was orettv effective.
I3 CO.T4ISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes.
19 COT 4ISSIONER KENNEDY:
?rincically 20 wasn't he?
a i us
'21 CO.T4!SSIONER GILINSKY: I think.I J
22 CO.TIISSIONER KE!N.DY: But he was very cood.
23 A well-organized guy.
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24 CHA R'mN HINDRIS: Let's see.
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CO3"CSSIO:iER GILINSKY:
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COTi!SSIO ER KENNEDY:),
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COTi!SSIO ic.s GILINSKY:
Well, out him down.
7.j CO.TCSSIO iER KENNEDY: Sure.
is us B!
COTCSSIO!iER GILINSKY 4s another one.
i 9j CO.TCSSIONER KENNEDY:
lis a really first-
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10 class guy.
I know very well.
3 I I i-CO.ANISSIO ER GILINSKY: He's a suoer cuv, but 12
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13 I COTi!SSIO:ER KENNEDY:
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-i 15.i CO'NISSIO!ER GILINSKY: I don't know.
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ge s a very snart guv.
17 '
COTCSSIO!ER KENNEDY:
Yes, he is.
18 !
COTCSSIO ER GILINSKY: 6 19 1
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22 23 CO.TCSSIONER GILINSKY: [
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25 COTCSS '.0:"IR :-ENNEDY:
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I know him.
I think verv 9,;
highly of him.
!l 10 j COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I wouldn't rule him out.
i en II '
CO'iMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Put him in.
i 12 !
CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: You had a technical list?
I i
13 MR. BICKWIT: I have some more legal names.
I 14 1 CHAIRMAN EENDRIE:
All right. Some more legal. Good, i.
It 15,;
throw them in.
i.
16 '
MR. BICKWIT: Maybe more thar vou need.
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20 21 Some of these would make a lot more sense if the i
22 person we are looking for is the second or third member o' this 23 team, or counsel tothe board rather than direct it.
24 CO'iMISSIONIR GILINSKY: Are you being the keecer o#
J,enesi Stoo "tes.fpC.
II these 'ists, Len?
,.j 23
)
i r.m Ia MR. BICKNIT: Yes.
2' CO?CiISSIO:7ER GILINSKY: So that we have them in one 3
place.
4'
?iR.3ICKWIT:
Okay.
5 CO!C4ISSIONER KENNEDY: Nho is.
with now?
6' MR. BICK: FIT:
7 3I I
d 9
COT 4ISSIONER 3 RAD:'ORD:
A second reason for having i
10 j Len keen a list I think is that way we get a somewhat uniform Il evaluation back, of whatever names we go ahead with.
Ne 12' will all, obviously, go on checking, but there would want to 13 !.'
be some central base.
l 14 COIC4ISSIONER GILINSKY:
bu will sort of turn out 15 !
a --
I a
16 '
MR. BICKNIT: Nill this be transcribed?
17 How do you qenerally coerate in these kinds of 1
la,
sessions?
i 19 I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Ne usually don't transcribe f
ti 20 '
personnel sessions.
1 21 j MR. BICKNIT:
I missed a few names.
- l 22 ;
COMMISSIONER h M.DY:
I think I have all of then.
23 MR. BICKifIT :
Okatr, I'll use vours.
v.,... ee:c m e rc.
25
..--.u--
24
....,, t, t
i mm 2
3 l
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i 9
l COM.MISSIONER AHEARNE: tihe:s is y front?
5 '!.
U.-
COINTSSIONER BRADFORD: He's in Washincton now.
But 6
i i=
.,i I think the person who recommended him to me said.'
i 8 'l t
=
9.i 10 ]!.
COT 4ISSIONER KENNEDY: Who is this?,
3" CO.TiISSIONER BRADFORD:
jj 12
. and the next three or four, if Len is going in order of the names I've given him.
13 il
[*
I 14 ;
MR. BICKWIT: j.
15 '
4.
CO WISSIONER 3RADFORD: Of which I had no idea 16 when I gave it to him.
1,,
MR. EILPED.IN: 1 13 i
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9 19 J so he must be good.
r 0
CO.WISSIONER 3RADFORD: I didn't know that either.
S i
"I c
MR.3ICKWIT:
j g
CO.T1ISSIONER BRADFORD:
Of the ceoole who I had 3
4 had a fairly long list of na.~tes, I cut to before I cave s-
! mero new m.we.
. the he was the nest enthusiasticallv
- to Len, c:
i s
i e
~rw-
..-a-
--,,,e-.
-w...
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I Id recommended.
i n:.
2 But that doesn ' t necessarily nean a lot because 3'
the recommendations didn't all cone from the same source.
I 4;
Thev didn ' t all know each other.
i i
i AM S:
gg, EILpsgIN:
I i
i 6c wasn't being facetious.
7 He is really is a very, very bright fellow.
iM 9
MR. BICKrf!T :
lwas suggested to me.
7 9
This was not by Peter.
1=
10 CO'NISSIONER KENNEDY: /
3 11 12 ',
MR. BICKffIT: Yes.
P 13 l 1
1 i
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: That's imoortant.
i 15 MR. BICKWIT:
1 I
16 '
m, 17 r I
18 'l CO.TiISSIONER KENNEDY: He's a member of which?
Ns l
19.
Yes.
l.
.J a
l I
20 You had somebody after g
21 MR.3ICKWIT:
l
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23
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.e COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: 1 i
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b e
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1 4i MR. BICKWIT:
No, he's --
1 I
i.
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COMMISSIONER SPADFORD:
i
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9' MR. EILPERIN: He was involved in the !
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I 11 !l 9
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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I remember.
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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: What did vou sav about Jl l ' 'l-
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l
- l his associat:.on' i
1 F
15 '
MR. BICKWIT:
1 16 '
7 II COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:
He had been counsel to o
s 13 20 3-COMMISSIONER ANNE:
4 21 N CO'LMISSIONER 3RADFORD: Yes.
22 MR. BICKWIT: The next one is
.f 7
24 l
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I was civing Len the list
- .w.
a.x.,m. i nc.
5 just before this meetine.
I have it written down some lace.
l
27
.. ~
i h.
I He is with the New Ycrk firm of jand i
2 cor.es ter.,
terv highlv recommended by someone who does know 4
his r.ime --
i i
4j (I,aughter. )
)
I
.j 5 h he fuz::iness is in my own mind.
I t..i 6.
C RI M MI EINDRIE: What are the alternatives here?
,i i
7 f,
'iR. BICK'f!T : im i.
is eum I
3!
CCTiISSIONER BRADFORD:
J
't 1
9 IEAIRMAN EINDRIE: What's his first name?
r m
ei 3
10,j ICT1ISSIONER BR.2LDFORD:
l=
II
.M*.d the strencth of the recolmtaendation is such --
12 ',
it certain runs contra:.y to the ridiculous overtone of mv not 13 !i being sure of ny name. He came very hichiv recommended as a 1;
I' t i'
lawyer who has handled a number of big cases.
15 J COT 1ISSIONER' KENNEDY:
Who is he with now?
't 16 COTiISSIONER BRADFORD:
=
17 "1
.1
'1R. BICTfIT:
A name that occurred to me is i IS,
a 19 20 21.:.l.
i 99s 24 3-
' Inaudible.)
mee asear m we.
25 All right, that's all I h ave for lavvers.
.,!~
28 i
- . :l 3
mm 1i CHAIPliAN HENDRIE: Does that catch everybody's 2.
lawvers?
i, 3 '.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes.
.i 4
It seems to me what we ought to try to do from here 5'
is to let Len or Steve make some inquiries on at least the 6
ones who appear to look best as to their availabilitv.
i 7:
CO'NISSIONER AHEAR'E : I guess I would like to
- .S l at ler.st have some clear cicture of how thev mesh with the 1
9 ~' technical people that are crocosed.
10 CO'iMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I agree.
1 b
II !
Certain1v it's a hard situation to deal with 12 :
because there will be some combinations of lawvers and technica5.
i i
13 1 people that will speak in terms of having one or the other be i
14 '.
' director and deoutv director.
i l
.i 15 ;
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I wouldn't make the assummtion, t
16 ; at least for myself at this coint, that the lawver needs to 171, be either.
He may well be counsel to this oceration.
l 18 !
I think we need to think about that.
l 19 !
MR. BICKNIT: Some of these oeople would be better l.
20 for-that role.
21 il COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: Sone of these necole I 22 ] think you could only get as director.
Some we would only want i
23 j as counsel. Some we might call decutv director.
2d '
The problem is that it's hard to decide what the m.,. c:oo n m.inc. -
25 ' relationships among the peccle ought to be without knowine which
s 29
.o n
= - l of the lawyers vou are dealing with.
2 So that if we find --
2 CO WISSIONER AHEARNE: "he difficulty I have is, we 4 i have got a list that looks like almost 15. 18 ceoole. And if i
5-;
vou reallv intend to cut out the net, to have them check that 1
3 1
6]
large bodv with an onenended cuestion, ere are not really sure i
7' which of these positions he might be interested in.
4 1
3 CHAIRMAN EENDRIE:
I don't think the intent here 9
was to start contacting eeople vet, was it?
i.
I 10!
COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:
It micht have been, as to Il at least the outstanding ones.
And John's point is a cood one.
12 Cbviously, somebody night be available for director, who 13 i wouldn' t be available for counsel. But there mav he no Jav 14 around it but to have them tell you that, because once we IS
.- find ourselves with thef
)besttechnicalpecplewecan find [
I 16 best legal ceople we can find, unless we
/
27 l
are prepared to make a blanket decision, no matter which I
13-combinationof those is available, we want one to be the l
t l
M director and one to be the deputv, vou still run into than 20 ' prdelem of having to call somebody ue and say, we are still 21 werking on the exact suructure, but we want to know whether vou=
22 would be available.
22-It seems to me that that's a call that one can o
22 respectably make while things are in something of a state of
! Mira a f 3C**t'l l 'N:.
I
- lux.
person w1;; presumaelv understand that wien tve
.. /.
30 t,
I mm Commissioners and a bunch of names and disciolines involved, 2
the first call isn't going to be necessarily the one that presents him with a cocolete cackage.
COT 4ISSIONER GILINSKY:
Why don ' t we run through -- 1 i
5 i if we've got all the lawyers, why don 't we sort of go around
.6j the table with technical names.
And then when we've got it 7;
all put together, mavbe see where we want to ao from there.
i 3!
Icalledh 44 9
and he suggested -- don't write it down vet, because i.
4 c
j i
10 I the guy said no.
11 e
12 He suggestedJ i
He said he was -- he said i i.
]SoItook 13 o.
14 '
I the liberty of calling I figured with that recommen-a 15 dation -- well,
=
J 16
-He said he just couldn't undertake anythinn of this sort right II now. He had too many other things.
3 15 COMISSIONER.M2ARNE: You would never geti J #cr II full time.
- l 20 '
CO WISSIONET GILINSKY: He suqcested6 Il '.
22 72 1 That he couldn't handle 4
o 24 anv:hing full time.
But, he would trv to see how much time
".e
..v e.oormi..ac.
25 could make available.
+e
+-
+
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a.
-a.-e-. -. -,, - -
1 31 I
n=
He seemed to be interested in being associated with 2
this effort in some capacity.
See if he could get out of some 2
of the work that he was doing.
4 i
Other names that came un are i
w 5:
'and he came un
,j l
J withacoupleof(
0
)butthev. don't really have -- these are very smart 7'
i j
3' guys, but they don' t have covernment exoerience as far as I 9
can see, or exoerience related to what we are talking tout i
10I here.
And I regard them as kind of a little far out, aid don' t II see any point in pursuing those.
12 J.
13 [!
And then I rapidly -- let's see, I have some more.
,i 14 1 [
<=
15 16 '
COWISSIONER AHEARNE: Is that the 17 18 CO WISSIONER KENNEDY:
I think he's from
,I CHAIRMAN EENDRIE:
Sounds like the.
.)
22 21 COT 4ISSIONER KENNEDY: That's orobablv right.
22 COTiISSIONER GILINSKY: Me seemed to think well of 23
- hin, m
OCT4ISSIONER KENNEDY:
'did very well
'* y tta 4tCC**t91.1**.
r 7
-c in I and was enthusiastic about his carticioation w
- =. '
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32 1
t rr.
I4 in it.
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mum 3
COT!ISSIONER GILINSKY:
Another name that comes 4
is,p 9
=
up, I think, 4
i g
He was formeriv onthef
)
5 What is he?
i 6
C=. AIRMAN EENDRIE:
i 7l M
- l J
BI CO W SSIONER GILINSKY: He is accarently 9.;
I don't know what that does to his t
8 10.!
candidacv.
t 1I CO M SSIONER KENNEDY: He is at the momentb.
1 12 '
9 I
=d 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That's where I heard his u
H i
14 Il I
name.
15.
CO.T!ISSIONER AHEARNE: You mean he's --
- i 16 CO.Y!ISSIONER KENNEDY:
=
1.,.
J I5 CC.T1ISSIONER GILINSKY:
I talked withi 19 just to get his thoughts. He has worked the government "O !
consultant circuit for many years.
He named the following:
Ob ami8 23 CO'?!ISSIONER KENNEDY:
e e 4-lAMT'3r R$00**T'S i PO.
33 n
r.
I COT".ISSIONER GILINSKY:
He mentioned J.!
but 2'
that's cur of.the. question.
4 3
CO.TiISSIONER KENNEDY:
Evervbod'r mentions 4
-I 4.'
MR. BICKNIT:
W! But I i
5 acree, it is out of the questiori.
1 6"
COT 4ISSIONER GILINSKY:j.'.
'i 1
7
.a r
8 I.
COT 4ISSIONER AHEARNE: He is.a.
I 9l 3
.l 10l COTfISSIONER GILINSKY:
Anvway, he is crettv active i
II 1;.Iet cetera.
12' He mentioned.'
l F
13 l CO.T4ISSIONER AHEARNE:
i 1.
W Alsomentioned(
I4 COT 4ISSIONER GILINSKY:
9 15 16 :
COM'CSSIONER KENNEDY :
Nasn't 17 9
.)
i 18 i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes.
19 i COT 4ISSIONER KENNEDY: That's the guv. Sure, I know l
20 '
him.
Where'is he now' i
21 3 COTCSSIONER GILINSKY:
He just retired as.,.
=
22.;
i 23
- And, 24
]
- r,. e. n e oc m. s -c.
- t Y
4-COTCSSIONER KENNEDY:
es_
...I 34
- t.
i i
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
mm 4
He's also -- (Inaudible.)
l 1
3' I've run out of names at that ooint.
=
4-COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
How about d
i 5,
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Nhat is he doing now?
6:
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
i 7.
}
6 9
COTiISSIONER GILINSKY:
Could be.
10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Ne haven't got the same j
II function reoresented in the room on technical 9 ecole that we 12 do on lawvers, so it doesn't make a lot of sense, I don't 13 ]
think, to have Len and Steve -- unless. Toe wants to be the
!i 14I secretariate for technical oeoole.
IS I COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Oh, I see what vou mean.
i 16 !
COTIISSIONER 3RADFORD:
I didn't mean ex ertise.
17 COTiISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think Len ought to keee i
18 track of names.
We can have them checked out some other wav.
l 19 Let's have all the names in one olace.
.i o
20 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:.Tohn thoucht I was suggesting i
21 we didn't have any ceople who had technical exoertise in the 22,
room.
I was actuallv savinc we didn' t have anvhodv takine l
l 22 notes.
With an eye toward following up.
24 COTiISSIONER GILINSKY:
Len, whv don't "ou keen
- e n e, se:c us. ire.
25 that list.
l
35
- O y
Tb I;
CD.!?.'4A'; EE!DRIE:
I didn't notice the comment.
2 It would hate ius: 7assed me bv anvvav.
I 2
CD'OCSSIO:!ER GILINSKY:
I must sav c' all o# these I
d ;;
7 ecole, the one that acceals to me the most is(
(
S CO'F.ISSIO:ER KENNEDY:
I have another name. How q
6..
about-i
,]
7 i
i 8!.
05_UR'4AN HE;DRIE:
Mhere is he?
9 COT 4ISSIO:32 KENNEDY:
I 10 I
l J
II COTiISSIO:2R AHEARNE:
Yes.
12 COT 4ISSIONER 3RADFORD: '4v coint was not just that 13 ',
we wouldn't have an accurate list, which I assume we will.
J 14 q We also need somebodv charged with -- %vbe[-
i w
I 15 l CO.T4ISSIONER GILINSKY:
'taybe. Mut if we don't I
16 '
have a list we will really be in trouble.
17 COT 4ISSIO 3R BREFORD: I'm delighted we will have i
IS :
a list, b u t 7. v a n t to know who we are going to cive it to.
19 '
COT 4ISSIONER GILINSKY: Ne can decide that.
1.
20 -
CEAIR's_'; EENDRII:
Let Len keen the names.
i 21 CC"'CSSIO ER GILINSKY: Do vou want to run throuch i
t m2
- vo.=
exteriences on t..ars?
4 23 CI:C'ISSICh ! R AEEARNE:
Just the names.
A lot af F
~
M i
.ane c
-a
- = 1...< ng to i
4-l ie new eeoo m.inc.
l W
ac em.I t
36
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COHISSIONER KE;MEDY: Mho is the other fellow 14
- with, I
up 4
15 l, COHISSIONER AEEARNE:
y
,1 16.)
CHAI'.v.AN HENDRII: What was the one after that?
l 17.
CO.'C4:SSIONER MIEARNE:,
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13
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to ?
4.
20 I
ni
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CC'O!ISSIONER V.NNEDY: hat ' s right, that's the e-name.
m,.
nee,n m:.
25 CO'r4ISSIONER AHI:.=NE:
And then he suggested. another
37 I
guv we night think of is mm b
7 J
3 I
l seemed to be hic; 7 reference.
s
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And the other name I had come no with was i
E B
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5 CO*SiISSIO:ER KENNEDY:
He was[
e 9
CO'tiISSIONER AHIARNE:
Ves.
10
- COHISSIONER KENNEDY:
so manv vears ago.
I F
II I
COWISSIONER AIEARNE:
And then he went to j, 12 13,,
l 14 COWISSIONER KENNEDY:
I have one other name that f
P l
15 cane along. A fellow bv the name of/,
i l
16 I ',
.a 15 COWISSIONER tiILINSKY:
I was iust coing to sav, I 19 fe'.t we ought to get in touch with them because thev, in a 20 way, are more analogous to NRC than NASA and some of these 21 o-her = laces, and thev deal with commercial industrv.
1 2
COEISSIO1ER KDNEDY: This fellow-- we'11 come 23 back to that -- but this fellow was,
l 24 h eers. R esc"tes.1-4.
1
1 38
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6 7
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17 5
4 la CO'C4ISSIO77ER AFRIE:
1
,19
- I 20 f; 21,j
. n 2.,.
e a-i eme 7 -
4.
2 4
And also, all of these ceonle were cuite familiar u.., a m, m.inc.
25 with r;.nning fairly sica' ele efforts ths.: had. deadlines that 4
-w
,,n w
<-..r,
,---------n--e.-
-,-,- - - - - -, - - -, - - - - -, +
,' l.
39 I
had te be net.
2 CC"'1ISSIO:3R GILINSKY: Anv thoughts?
CEAIRt!AN E:mRIIt I haven't made anv contacts or a
thought particularlv about oeople.
3 CO'?iISSIO:;ER KETEDY:
I have asked some neocle l
r 6
who have been in the past associated and know some people 7
who were associated with the n
9 10 11,
12 p=.
a 1.e le 13 I wanted to see if I could find who some of those I6 pecole were, because that was a maicr effort.
And I have been told that these secole are crobablv anon the best, if not 13 the best accident investiciators in the world.
I?
IC'?!ISSIO CR GILINSXV: Nhen do vou think vou will 20 get a fi:c cn it?
Il CC'O!!SSIO:GR KITIEDY: Homefully within, vcu kncv, 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />.
4-23 CEAIR' DAN ENDRII: I think those sorts of sources,the
)andthekindofsourcethat Dick has been ta'. king I*
- ,,..,,.,.c....,
about, cught :
he nr: bed crettv heavilv.
40 mm When you talk dmut lawyers, it is not all that diffi-I cult to :ind lavvers whose excerience includes a gooc. ceal o:_
investigatory work; a lot of ex-assistant U.S. Attornevs t
around, and ceople in the Justice Deoartment who have worked 8
4 1
5I there and who, even in crivate oractice.have acted as scecial 6j counsel for this committee or that crouc, or whatever.
i i
7.
On the technical side, there is a temetation to i
a!
star: scanning down some of the faculties of distinguished 9) institutions,the National Academy lists and so on. The more i
10 j I think about that, the less I crocose to do it.
II Thev are fine ceoole, but thev are considerablv 12 less likely to understand what's necessarv in an investigation '
I3 '
and the kinds of things you have got to get in motion, watch I4 I out for, move ahead on, and much more likelv to drift off t
15 :
into scholarly contemplations o' ways cressurizer level i
16 '
gauges could be constructed to avoid the difficulties, and 17 that sort of thing.
18 '
So I think that looking for ceonle in these bodies ai I9 '
who have had to go throuch substantial investicatory exeerience-i 20 in accident analysis, who did what to whom, what haocened to l
21 ;
the equiement, how did it cet the way it got, who mistreated i
h 22 it and how did they come to do that and so on, I tnink those 23 kinds of excerience, crchab1v, I would recard as essential as cart of the technical person's backcround.
= m... a.:c. m m:.
25 And I would count that actually more heavile th?.n
I 4~'
=
virtuosi-.*
d-one or another certinent technical field of 2
science or engineering.
Investication is a bit o# a different thing than nost technical oroblems.
And the Sc: that this
-r one has go: a lot of machinerv involved in it, nevertheless, 4
I a
it's an investigation.
e f
6 If it is allowed to becone a technical exercise; 7
why it can go on forever with nothing like the kind of s.
d.
3 results that we want to have.
I think some of theseh
)oecolewhohavegone 9
10-through this cill are the right sort of tyoes on the technical 11 '
s.tce;
'2 COMMISSIO:iER KENNEDY:
Look at the guv in the t
=*
l' CHAIRMAN EE'!D'4IE:
6-l 4,
y 1
]Thathastherihhtascect.
15 Let's see, who else investigates?
~
i i
l CO.TCSSIO!?IR KE'!'!EDY: The safety board have gone
- 8 out huntine big eieces of machinerv, trying to figure out I9 what the interrelationshio with all of those nissing earts l
20 really was.
l
' 1 ';
COT 4ISSIO:ZR GILINSKY: yes, l
t I
22 CHAIRMAN EE!!DRIE:
I quess vou could go and look.
1 22 There are s diar sorts of things that have alwavs cone on d
1 in the ariti.e field. You know, shios have been sinkine since I
me. = ec vt : a:.
3 I*
dar one, 1.d ineti thle there is sene sort of Board of Incuirv.
i I
g
_ _ ~.
f:
N q4 s
a,.
42 s
3 r
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CO'iv.lSSIONER KENNEDY: That, tv the wav, is i -
/
e.
ano:ner -~
~
~
t 2
CEAI".N!AN NENDRIE: I'm not cuite sure, but I thitk w
-i t
1j having the NASA exneriences, ceoole who have had NASA s
b t
- t3 5 ".. investic.atiIn exc.er,ien'ces to draw on, Air Force, Transnortation!
ii
+;
t-a
! X 6'
Safetv Board kinds of things, that's crobablv,an adecuate f
,?
7 i.
field, I wculd thi.nk.
m t
4 3'
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: The Navv, tha't is the uniformed
- a grous.
I 9;
service,'not the DOE part of,the Navv crogram, ha.
t
.I E
~
IE C have forg6tten credfselv the name of the cores. A.nvwav, their
~a I h.l job is' accident prevention, mitigation and investigation. [Akd x
s I,
. _s A
12 there a[e guvs who are run through a soecial urocram iust for ' ll
- s "'
'c 13 P.. that, and have scent'some vears at it, reccanizinct that
., f..
b l
b there were alwavs sone kinds 3of transients coing on. And their u-1 s3 12
+
9 s
i.
. 15 job is to run down every last one of them'and find out what
~,
a causes it and how to orevent its,aL d if you can't, how to 16 c
y..
mitic, ate its effects should ' thai's~ ort of thing haenen anaihi.
U-
.w*
{q
'F 13 And there are sort of professional accident investi-
^
17
- gators for the submarine program, the nuclear sucmarine program.
4
+
r 20 '
And vou know I don 't-'think vou would wa$t t_o
.s ;
\\
4
'~o 21 '
get one that.*as qn active dutv." I don't think th.e Admiral
.X 22 would like 'i if v$%.did, but it might be that that* micht be 22 one of those guvs who iis retired who could also he useful.
^4 CEAI?.'iAN HENDRIE: Yes. He's set to a svste.m s
- ses,. a,
..m. :.:.
~3 there -- I ha.*e forgotten the acronvm that cog.<,vith i
-- but s
r t #.
l ^
y y
,,7
4 43
,y.,
Iji thev make -- they'll descend ucon a nuclear crocelled shic 2 i!
and go through the last year's ocerating history and the 3
condition of the crew and grill the ocerators and look at t
i the records, and, by George, if they don't like it,the 1
.5l
.ressels croceeds at moderate seeed tr the nearest U.S. base i;
4j i
1 3
6{
and stays there until they like it.
7!
CfM",ISSIONER GILINSKY:
Do not cass t-c.
8 C1IAI? MAN ENDRII: And, boy, is that a thing i
9!
condemplated by skincers and engineering officers.
g
'g r
10 COMMISSIONER KEW.DY: This can ruin the x
l,.
l
!I Cactain of that shic's day, you know, for some davs to come.
-- s -
12 l CHAIR'%N HENDRIE: But I would trv to null in i
I3 ceocle who are currenthv active.
1 I4
.COWISSIOER GILIN3KY: This cuv has not oniv got s
i 15 i to be able to do all these things, but he's cot to have to i
~
16 l deal with the-President's commission and various connittees
?
I7 of the Congress --
.I 18..
.MR. SICKNIT: And the cress.
t
~
I9 COMMISSIONG GILINSKY:
and the cress.
- e 20 !{
That's another reason why vou iust can't take s.
2 I.l' somebody out of one of the faculties.
.4
-, d CHAIRMAN ENDRI?: Yes.
e
' I3 COMMISSIONER KENNEi"R:
It takes a cuv like
,a t!
1
'it takes semebodv who is coed, who has been d
- x, n.oorre,. inc.
all through that.
. k
,1 44 e en i:
2 C091ISSIONER GILINSKY: 7 ell, what is the next 2
step here?
4,,
At some point we have to draw un our list. Ne i
5' have to start asking ceople -- I think we have to fix on what t
t t
6' we think are the more interestinc candidates and begin to 7
inquire whether thev are interested.
3 '!
COWISSIONER AEARNE: Are we fixed on what we would 9
be asking them to do?
10 COWISSIONER GILINSKY: You mean as far as whether q
II they will be in charge or not in charge, or if thev are in 12 '
charge, doing what?
I3 f COWISSIONER KENNEDY: The latter' Id l COWISSIONER AHEAR NE: The latter.
,1 15 -
COWISSIO'IER BRADFORDt Nhv not out it this way in a
e 16 calling ceccie on both sid--
17 !
t 0'
19 f COMISSIONER AhSARNE:
I wasn't addrassing that.
20 It was more that --
t 21 i CO.*iISSIONER GILINSKY: Tohn is saving, what is the 22 i sCome?
.i 1
2 2
CO?i!SSIONER 3%DF'ORD-There we have a draft 24 charter frc:t last week, and I guess there 's even --
%,,.i ceconm. inc.
m 4-C09tISSIONER IdIEARNE: The one that ca _e back locks
\\.
i" l
. ',' l 45 l
'~
i
?
I[
almost exactly like the or.e that was around last week.
a h
COMMISSIJNER 3RADFO*.D: Didn' t we acree to keep that !
2 i
2I a draft, in any case?
i s
4i MR. BICKNIT: It was just a worksheet, John.
i i
5!. Mark it up any way vou like.
I i
6:
COMMISSIONER AEEARNE:
It doesn't helo. I l
i 4
7l have tried that. The marking up nakes no changes.
i 3;
i 9
MR. SICKNIT: Try again.
I 10 '
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Nelcome to the club.
II].
MR. BICKWIT: If we can disacocint vou all ecuallv - ;
12 I3 l COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: The one vou can't disannoint I
I# l is the one vou are trving to talk into taking the iob.
I 15 '
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That's whv I felt we had to i
16 !
reach an agreenent. that this is essentially what should be
- i 3
,j asked.
I 8 ';
I think your amoroach to talk to the lecal and I9 [
technical is verv goed, because that does get around the 20 particular eroblem, u
2I y Sut, having gotten over that hurdle then you've 1
22 got to' describe, this is what we want vou to do.
'l 22 h COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It all comes down to finding.
out what hacpened, how did it come to ha=cen, how was it
%,r. am - m.inc.
at handled.
.4
..]
46 i
IIi
'4R. BICKWIT-And what does it suggest.
o 2 l I
CO.T4ISSIONER GILINSKY: And what does it suggest.
4 COWISSIONER AHEARNE: So vou do want that errouc i
a I*l to then come up with what does it suggest, what changes.
l
\\
1 5
COMMISSIONER GILINSXY:
Nell,.we talked about this ;
and there are suggestions that flow from the immediate 6'
l 7
experience, which is the natural way 8-COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I think the words in this i.
9 last version are. implications.
10 MR. RICKNIT: Yes, that was the best we could.
I II I
think that is accurate.
12 CO WISSIONER GILINSKY: For examole, if the 13 communications were bad, you recommend there ought to be 14 better co=munications 1*:l.
COWISSIONER AHEARNE: I am no longer arguing. All i
16 I want to do is to make sure we are all agreed so that whatever n,
17 '
is being asked, evervbodv understands what the groud is coing 18,
to be asked to do.
II COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I would sav to inclue 1
.o making recommendations which are some vav directiv related to t
(
21 h that accident.
ll s.
22il COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Is that the crincical cart of b
3,, the focus?
4
.I 24 Or, is the princimal cart cecen,es. inc.,i
~
of the focus to find ac,; out what happened?
i 47
..a
..-l I
rs-COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well --
2 COMMISSIONER AEEARNE:
I think that's the reallv 1
key cuestion.
i t
COTTISSIONER GILINSKY: Nhat hapnened, and how did i
1 5
it come to happen, which is the entire background.
i 6
I would say that that's most of it.
l 7
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Th.a.t has to be verv clear i
8 because when you ask a eerson to take this kind of a iob, if I
9 you are asking crimarily for them to come no with what ought 10 to be changed, or, are vou asking them crimarily to establish II as good a record as possible as to what hancened, how did it 12 come to hapoen.
And then, in addition to make any recommenda-I3 !
tions.
14 COM?iISSIONER GILINSKY:
Right. That's the wav I 15 would out it.
16 '
But then there are going to be recommendations II I which go far beyond the i=nediate exoerience.
t 18 !
In other words, you mav decide that we oughtn' t to l
I9 '
have licensing boards, and that-I would see as sort of a 20 second-phase that isn't tied to this immediate investigation, 21 which we might launch along the way. We might launch it before 22 -
this one ecmes to an end. It might oick un where this one
~~u' leaves c::~.
d~
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Who is going to do that?
s.e.e neoc.ws..-c.
r 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKE:
I don' t know that we need to
1 -
i 48
'i I
mh Ij decide that at this point.
i 2h COTLISSIONER KEETEDY:
I think if vou are going to ;
1 3,
ce sone:hing like that, vou are qcing to cr,eate yet another i
1 4l study grouo.
I 1
l 5
The guvs that vou are cetting here ought to know j
l 6;
that; thev ought not to suddenly in midstream find out, oh, by 7'
the way, down the hall is another groue doing something that 8
thev'411 see as related, but even though it is different, s
9 I think they need to know that at the beginning, lest, I think i
i i
10 you' begin to get some people who are wondering what is going on.
II COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: That group night be us.
12 MR. BICKWIT:
I think it would be best that that i
13 group be you.
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But in any case, we will hav 15 to address the broader --
16 l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY-Thev T.ust be addressed.
l' 17 '
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think it would be too i,
i 18 l much to ask somebody who is walking in, trving to figure out t
19 !
the accident sequence, to also be thinking down the line 20 about how this affects the entire gamut of nuclear regulations.
t 21 l For one thing, you have really cot to --
I 22 '
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I understand that.
And vou 23 !lidon' want the.7 -- vou do want them to start off even ii --
n 4
24 3 let me put it this way.
- Metas F.ooo,ters, lec. ]
25 Even if vou do want them to do that, vou would vant i
- l$
Is 6
49
- i t
=
I.
them to start off recognizing thev would have to do this in l
2 a phased operation.
The first thing thev must do and conclude,;
i bring to an end, is a thoroughgoing analysis of what haecened i
I a:
t and how did it come to hapoen.
i.
e
. Only then would you want them to address -- if thev ;
I 6'
were the ones, would you want them to address the broader I
e 7
cuestions.
i 3
CO.WISSIONER GILINSKY:
Although let me sav, if at 9
the end of this the man has some conclusions he would like to i
la put forward about our crocess as a whole or whatever, I would
'l certainiv like to hear whatever he has to sav.
r 12 COEiISSIONER AMEARNE: Sure. But to get some of these 13' good people, you are going to have to define what it is '
very f
l'.
you want done. And then they will turn their enercies to trvinc:
1 15 l get as good a product as nossible in that defined time that you-i 1 *4 give the. The broader you make that, the less of tha a ort I
thev can afford to spend on developing this detailed under-t t
8 '-
standinc of what haecened and how it came to hancen.
And that's whv I an concerned with --
o; COWISSIONER GILINSKY:
That cart has iust not to i
1.
be meticulously done and evervthing has got to be based on that.
COTiISSIONER KE'..CY: Yes.
4 CO WISSIONER GILINSKY:
So whatever hancens, we n ve =eac n :.
23 want to have the foundation for thinkinc about the i clications 1
, =. +
..m~
50
.v.,
j.
e l'
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I keep reiterating this,
==
2 hecause I an hopinn some semblance will come through in the i
final statement of colicy that comes out. I'm not sure, but it I
i 4'
sight.
5 MR.3ICKNIT:
It's just that we like to hear vou l
t 6'
sav it.
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But you don' t like to write i
I I
8 !
4 u..
l 9'
MR. BICKWIT: Ne know how to get vou to sav it again.
10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
It doesn't say what I hooed, II too, last time, and I thought we had all agreed that it oucht 2
to very carefully coint out that indeed where this is being I3 :
focused on that first stage, that the Commission visualizes I#
additional work will follow.
1 IS Now it says this in one verv sort of tentative 16 !
sentence. It doesn't make the coint at all.
I7 l COMMISSIONER GILINCKY:
It is not clear what will 18 !
follow it. Maybe we will just out heads together.
l I9 '
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But we need to sav that, or i
1 20 !
sc=ething about it.
2I '
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Commit ourselves?
i 22 i MR. BICKNIT: Nould we want to say that?
22 COM'1ISSIONER GILINSKY:
Of course.
CRAIRMAN EENDR!I: I don't know that'cu are much in
=c:,...
a.:c,.....se II a pcsi:icn, I think, to make a big coint of it now.
u.
1 And the language does sav the cur =ose of the.
i 2
evaluatien is to =ermit the Commission to take whatever further, 3,.
stees may be necessary to prevent a similar accident in the 1
I i
ai future and to improve --
I 1
5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD-7 '" ink that's richt.
If I
t t
i 6
this is clear about the b eginnings and the curnoses of the i
s, 1
7' first steps, it isn't as though this is a doc = ment we will i
i 8'
be likely to have to live bv for ten vears or decend on in 9
court or anything of that sort.
10 We are quite free to take further steos as we go 11 along.
12 It needs to give whomever we are asking to l
I 13 '
direct it, a good idea of what we are asking of him.
]
1 14 '
COMMISSIONER AREARNE: Yes.
t 15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But bevond that as to what 16 l we are going to do in the future, we don't have to cet it right 17 ' once and for all today.
15 i COTiISSIOER AREARNE: Another cuestion I had on this, i
t 19 ' which is a question I think that the eerson or ceanle would like I
d 20 5 to have some sense of, do we or do we not intend to cive I
21 them any direction that they should use the NRC staff as cart 22, of their staff, their creference?
23 Is it a possibility -
must they use --
I 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Of course, the statem ent
. e... 3.wmt. -e.
25 sceaks to that.
52
. =.,
- n' 1
CO:OCSSIONER AEIAR'IE: The statement savs that thev 2
choose Whoever thev want.
3 CO'NISSIONER GILINSKY: I thought the statement
,i said something about most of the staff--
i i
5-MR. SICKWIT: It savs both.
6!
CONMISSIONER AHEARNE: It savs it is excec tad in i
7, selectine a staff thev will draw substantial and senior 3'
NRC staff excertise.
They will be assisted bv staff of their i
9 own choosing.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Of course, we hire the II cerson and if that is the wav we want it to be done, vou are 12 not coing to hire socebody who wants to d6 it sempletely 13 differentiv.
n u
New it cones down to durt, it seems to me.
15 COANISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think we ought to at least 16 he clear in what we would like them to do.
7 If we want them to use guys that -- if we would la like them to use at least a reasonable cor*, ion, sav half or 19 soce:hing of their staff from the NRC staff, we oucht to at 20 least be willing to nake that clear to then when we are talkine 21-to them.
If we want them to use some of the senior ceoole, 23 guys like Eisenhu or Sudnitz, I think we oucht to trv to nake that cle ar to them.
, = m,. a.:e m...<.
t 1
I think the way it is worded we have cot two =eo le i
I 7
']
53 l
1 ;.
riding here, one route one way and the other route another
- i 2:
wav.
1 3
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Mell, at least it is av understanding that that is the inclination o-the Commission.
4 i
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Which?
5; I
6j COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That a substantial cart of j
i 7{
the staff he NRC staff.
COMMISSIONER KENUEDY:
Let me iust ocint out that 3
9 that is going to create sone eroblems.
10 We should understand the nature of those croblems 11,
because the verv quys that one would visualize as beinc cart 12 of the staff would be maior actors in the drama, either in 13 l its initial chase -- that is before the incident -- and i
i a
la l then subsequently during it.
l 15.
In other words, the very quvs who are -- who have a i
16,
great deal to contribute in terms of information and so on, i
17
are the guys who would then be sumoosediv, going out to 18,
dredge this information uo.
19 I'm not sure how that would be seen.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Dick, I think vou could use 21 g peccle who are participants, but not the maior ones.
The 22 3 bosses are the major ones.
-l ii 23i; MR. BICKWIT: Let me make the coint I made to vou i
24 '
earlier:
Mett DOOMerl. Inc.
- 5,
I think vou reallv ought to focus on whether vou can k'
a I
- . J 54 e
{
j f
t.
1 l!
get the same kind of ircut from the staff without formally i
m-e
- s 2
making them cart of this particular entitv. Because from the 2l credibility standpoint I think it would be verv heleful that 1
4 they not be part of this entity.
But I'm not clear that you I
5 can get the same kind of help from them if vou don't make them '.
I i
6!
part o f it.
I i
7' CHAIRMAN EENDRII: Furthermore, if vou have cot a e
i 8
depurv and a director chosen by the Commission and they hire i
9l 25 ceople from the outside, the conflict and overlac 10 '
with the Presidential Commission becomes, in av view, L
11 enormously greater than if we go outside to get the manacement !
12,
of this investigation, but it is prb arily staf fed hv NMC
.i 13 '
pecole.
Then it is clearly an NRC investication, and that l
1 14 we've sino.lv. gone outside for a few of the kev pecole because i
15,
we think it will be better and more fairly run that wav.
16 You know, I don't think
-- if we co the total 17, outside route, why then I think no matter how we write the 1
3 18 scoce, we are back in a olace that I have been verv concerned l
19:l would be, which is' trying to set uo a four-man Presidential l
r 20 l Commission to somehow get in there and --
1 21 1, CO.MMISSICER AHEARNE: I agree.
i.
CHAI3vAv. ENDRII:
I thin}c for that re ason, in 22 l v
l 23 '. spite of the down side, people will say, "Aha, there thev cc'
. ! investigating the selves, using the sa=e old pecple who are doi:.g it,"
w,,.i neoo. m. ine.
25 ; and so on.
Ne can't hele that. Ihey are going to sav that no
__ao 4
l
.~
mm '
1 ll matter what we do.
And there is some helo in going outside 2!
and trying to get recognizablv distinguished and incartial i
2 vigercus heads of the investigation, a coucle of cecole, 4
director, de utv, maybe counsel, maybe a coucle of other 1
5 peccle.
But then the bulk of the 25, I think, have to be 6!
NRC staf f and it has to be regarded as the NRC investination 3
7 and not as total outside and independent body.
2 COV.'4ISSIONER AHEAP2TE: That's where I come out.
i 9
CEAIRMAN EZ'mRIE: That's a necessarv configuration i
10 ;
even with its doubts.
II l MR. BICKNIT: t7e all agree, it's a tradeof f.
4 I2 !
CEAIR"AN EENDRIE : Cleariv.
13 If the President --
i 14 MR.3ICKWIT: Then just make vour tradeoff.
15 i CEAIRV.AN 5.*.CfDRII: If the President hadn't set cc I
16,
a Commission and said leave it to the acencv to carry ou the i
17 l appropriate investigation, then I think we would be well 18 advised, in fact, to go largelv outside.
I9 3ct, with the Presidential Commission iust named 20 !.l t ying to tull itself tocether, why directing a structure which 21i' has the same configuration --
22 ll COMMISSIONIR AHEARNE:
I would like to make another 22 4 :oin: en that, which is fundamental, at least to mv erc=csal to have, anf t'.a: is heavy involvement on relatively senior d-
- maa am m we.
-c se <
f
l 56
- l
.. 'q
. =,
I NRC people.
=m' 2,l From the reviews and stuff that I have been 3
associated with from early DOD, it really helos if ou have i
some eeople who are in the line of the offices that vou want 4
r 5
to have a lot of work done for vou.
They just manace to cet l
6 i
e I
6!
it done much faster -- mcuh more efficiently.
7i CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: Yes, i
8 COMMISSIONER nILINSKY: But I wouldn't make this i
9, too rigid. In other words, this is something -- we have a 10 certain view of it, it is something we can sit down with a II cotential' director to discuss. You may end un drawing the 4
.12 j line a little differently --
l 13 j MR. SICKNIT: This is a draft.
Id CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: You don't have to tie it down, t
15 [
vou know, three of these and twentv-two of the others.
I u.
16 4 wouldn't do that.
17 !
But I do think that the cresent languace at the E
18 front end, as John points out, it is cuite ambiguous, whether Wl this investigating grouc is -- you know, clearly thev will t
20 !
talk to the NRC staff, but are thev going to have an NRC 21,
staff.
9 l
22 i And I think if it is our view indeed that the bulk t
22 l of that group would be full-time NRC staff, then I think we
- a ough: to say so, m.,.i a.w m. r e.,
I5 CO.MMISSIONE.R AEIARNE:
I think so.
+
w-
.,--,,-----,%.w
.----..,1- - - - - -
S7 CEAIRMAN EINDRIE:
And I think that ought to be 2
. clear when we talk to potential directors.
MR. SICKWIO: Da vou want to sav so in stronger i
t 4
terms than the second sentence without the first sentence?
3 The second sentence says, it is exnected that in i
6l selecting staff they would draw substantially from senic:
t I
7 NRC staff.
3' Do you want to get stronger than that?
9 We, obviously would strike the sucgestion that 25 10 i people are going to be chosen by this --
II '
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would get rid of the 25 12
- people, 13 '.
I still think a staff of their own choosine is i
14 right. And I think that there needs to be some balanced wav 15 of saving it.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I tell vou, I can envision I7 a guy coming in who is hooinc to do this ich in some reasonable s*
time is not going to want most of his staf f to come from NRC.
19 MR. 3ICKWIT: I'm not so sure about that.
20 CEAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think vou cet oeoole who feel 21 that -- in fact, I think you are going to talk to some 22 people here who will not take the jcb with a staff comoosed 23 prinicipally of NRC pecole.
MR. SICKNIT:
What they might well say is, I
~ mee. nno m.
=
certainly wan all that excertise coming to me.
I don't want
+-
58 sg mm ;,
them on my staff.
t COMMISSIONEN. AHEAR'iE: That's right.
That's the y
way thev could read this.
i I think you have to be exolicit.
j 4
i 1
5' CEAIRMAN EENDRIE: And while that's a cer#ectiv i'
i 6 !!
reasonable view, as I sav, in view of the constitution l
-t of the Presidential Commission, I find it a significant diffi-l 7
a 3t culty for us to be duolicating.
~
i i
9j COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think vou want to be 9
careful in here, of wording it in such a way that you will scare 10,j i
i 11 [
oecole off, who once they sat down and thought about it, would ;
realize there wasn't that much difference between what thev 12 1
13 ll might start out with in their minds, which was a comoletelv i
il ja g independent posture, and the ability to choose a substantial i
f 15 part of their staff from present NRC cersonnel.
COMMISSIONER GIEINSKY: Right.
16,
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD-I quess one of the immortant.
17 1
l points there is, who chooses which NRC neoole.
33 Do we assign them to him, or does he nick them?
19 COTiISSIONER GILINSKY: I think the director ought
.o t
o decide who is on his staff.
In other words, if there is p.j.i i
somebody he doesn' t want, the guy ouchtn' t to be on there
--u because we vant him to be on it.
~
--u That's not consistent with most of the staff beine 4-m eme-,,i. ir:.
- 3 NRC staff.
4 e
-n
59
- '.l
.i Ij CO WISSIONER A*4EAD.NE: 'ty cniv coint, Peter, is n
2L I reccqni::e the advantage of what you are sayinc, if t.he person hac 4
ti=e te reflect that they would probably reach that conclusion 4,
I just don't think we ought to approach people, since I
5i most of us seem to feel.
l r
6j CO.M SSIONER BRADFORD:
I agree that this language goes too far.
CO.M SSIONER AHEARNE:
that a substantial portion of the a
r.~j the staff cugnt to be fran the NRC, I think we ought to say that explicitly.
It 9j That may lead to sone pecole we would like to have I
- l 10j crooping out, a nd as long as we have got -- I think we have i
l' 11 '
got a lisu of competent technical pecole, concetant lavvers, 12 i we can get one of each.
I think that we would be --
i 13 j COWISSIONER KENNEDY:
Frankiv, if we are goine to I
14 :
go to having that much NRC staff, it is oretty heatrv, I come 3
a 15,:
back.to what I said much earlier. I cersonally would rather d,
16 see that director and deputy director both in the sort of 17 technical fields, and with a counsel, also an outside
- cuy, 13 :
general counsel, or whatever -- saecial counsel, or whatever li -
one would designate him, to the director, simolv because I d
20 would like to see more outside, clear, unmistakable outside 1y participation.
21
- i 22 i CO.WISSIONER BRADFORD: As e that caracraoh, sucoose 22 you just al c s: reshuffle the sentences a little -- cull the I'
one about "indeoendence" out and out a second, and then have
' me. = ce m -:.
25 it read, "~ hey will be assisted by a staff of their own e
-mw._----
,_._.s__
.___,,,._m_q_.
o :-
.1'.
60 4
?
. mm i
chcosing," and it is excected that in selecting that staff
)..
2 they would draw "substantially on senior NRC cersonnel."
3I CCr!!SSIONER AHEARNE: Peter, that wordinc leaves 4
it completely up to the eerson to choose.
It can't sav we i
I 5
ex ect then go, qv feeling is we ought.to recuire them to t,
i i
6!
choose a substantial cortion from the NRC staff.
l i
r 7
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Look, John, vou are going to t
i 3 0 discuss this with whoever you sit down with. You are going to 9
pick out some cutstanding citizen, and if vou come to an
.10 agreement on
- kd s sort of thing, he's not going to go running II off and hire 23 pecule from outside.
I2 '
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I guess I am cuzzled by, 13 !
if we feel that that's what our requirement is, what is the i
14 difficulty in saying it?
15 ;
COMMISSIONER CILINSKY:
I think it says that.
16 Wheever -- he vill decide who is on his staff. Ne exeect
,,i them to be 20scly NRC peccle. But snecificsily who thev are --
I I3 I COT 1ISSIONIR AHEARNE:
That is something that's h
19 UU to 310.
I 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I guess I don't understand i
i al :
the source --
e 1
22,
COvv ce?CNIR AEEARNE:
Nell --
a 22 i COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Oh, I see.
seu are saying that that means he is free to select m...
n.oo m. ire.
-c 4-which NRC staff me=bers he chooses.
61 i
I COT 4ISSIONER AEIAR'!E : Sun that's not what iu savs.
1 r.1 2
COMMISSIO';IR KE'ETEDY: That's not *.at it is 2-supposed to be saying.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But we all understand --
t i
5 COMMI.9SIONER KENNEDY:
That's whv vou are comfortabl'e t
6 ~
with the language if you interpret it that way. Then it comes
{
6 7
out okay.
t 8
COMMISSIOhER GILINSKY: Lock, you are coing to sit 9l dcwn with the person, and cresumably vou are not going to 10 1 be -- you know, you get this coint straicht. And then vou II rewrite this thing in the way you both can agree to.
12 I mean, to say in the beginning that we are coinq l
13:
e soecifv --
t 14 COMMISSIONER AEEARNE: I don't mean scecifv, 15 Victor. My concern is that some of the peoole who have been 16 { draf ting this have, I believe, the conceot that thev should be --
17 the whole staff should be from the outside.
I 18 COM'iISSIONER GILINKSY: We don't have that concent, 19 and we are going to talk to that persont vou are coing to 20 I talk to that person.
2I I COT 4ISSIONER AHEARNE: It is nice, sometimes, to have i
2 2.'.
the crinted word reflect what the understanding is.
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It will.
t
.a MR. IILPERIN: Do vou have a feel for how v.any
- ,: era, neoa,nes we.
23 outside people would be the range cf the maximum thau vou would
-a-
-yy g-
i 62
'e I e,
I mm allow these =eople to hire?
Are vou talking about five?
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY :
I guess three-quarters of it ought to be NRC, and I expect it will be morethan that iust 4*
3 because of the difficulties of going out and hiring ceonle.
6 CEAIRMAN EENDRIE: Yes, for six months, true.
i 7'
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: So I would think if a guv has just a few ceople sprinkled around to give him a feelinc 3
9 that he gets, you know, the storv from them, has an occortunity-10 to kind of audit what else is going on, I mean, that would a.
II satisfy his concerns.
12' That's the way I cuess I would do it if I were I3 coming in. To do this in six months -- and that, by the way, Id is another thing we ought to talk about.
I 15 ~
I think we have to set that as a target simolv 16 because it is the target -- well, it is the deadline of the i
17 l Presidential Commission.
I think it is not a verv lona ceriod i
18 !
of time e do an investigation like this.
And I ex=ect thev i
i 19 I are going to be oretty hard pressed.
20,
7
ad ak for us to shoot for an earlier date --
2I '
COMMISSIONER AEEARNE:
It would be unrealistic.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
-- is unrealistic,and it 23 would really affect the quality of this investication, s
And so I would iust sav tentativelv, that's our d'
en moenm irc.
-c target, and we will trv and make it. But, I think the im ortant
J k!
63
- 'r 3* v thing is to have --
7' [:
MR. BICKWIT:
How does that look?
Just strike t
, 1, "as expected"?
~^
(Counsel showing document to Commissioners) i 1
5.
lI COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:
I prefer that in.
I 6 "l i
would strike the "25 ceople. "
i l
r 7 e; MR. EILPERIN: You are going to be asking for a h
i 3 l commitment for time from cecole.
i So I think just for your 9
ourcoses, instead of choosing the bare minimum that vou scrt 10 of hope for, that vou should have in mind vhat amount of time Il you reall, --
v 12 COMMISSIONER AREARNE:
I think six months is a I
I3
+
reasonable period of time for a aroup of ceoole if thev Id get startedi cuickly and focus primarily on ficuring out 15 l what -- well, focus, I think what's listed in here.
It it:
16 ll i
when they -- if thev were really going to go inte a much I. J broader area, that you becin havina --
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Anyway, six-months, full-I 19 tine seems reasonable. Beyond that, some lesser carticication.
20
You know, lower level of carticication.
l 21 l CHAIRV.AN HENDRIE :
- Len, 1
I wish you folks would go back 22 'd to that scoce and compare items.
ti 23 j It keecs soundine to me as though the thing is t
i 24 be. newr.,,. me..
redundant.
23 i "R. BICKNIT: Reallv_ ?
l-
64 1
Tell, what we tried to do is cick uo the Executive i
i e
Crder which e went over, I guess in Fridav's meeting, but not t
=ake it a=:. ear as if that's what we've done.
~
i 4
COT 4ISSIO:IR GILI'7 SKY:
Then put in some scecifics. 'i i
i i
t S.
COTdISSIOER AEEARNE: I don't understand.
%v ii i
I 0 i should vou be focusine. on the Executive Order?
7 i
COTdISSIOER KENNEDY: That's exactly what we did B':
on Friday afternoon.
9'j CO.T4ISSIONER AEEARNE: Ne went through the 10l! Executive order, Vic read it for us.
I 11 '
CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: But it seems to me that the 12 sco=e --
i COTiISSIONER KENNEDY:
Yesg. but each one that he l
I read, he then got our assent --
15 !
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It seemed those were the t
16 'i th. ngs --
CTOiISSIO2R KE'TNEDY:
Ihat we should be a.
l investigating,
t i
19 '
MR. BICrdIT: That's what we did.
i I
c1 COTdISSIONER KENNEDY: That's what he is savinc.
- i MR. BICrd!T
You quvs draft this thinrT.
-n CEAIRMAN EENDRIE: I don't think that it needs to
~'
en :
look very =uch like the Executive Order.
l 2,
COT 4:SSIONER 3RADFORD: Excect for thatcte caracrach, 3..:e. m. ; :.
t 65
.,i e
'. a..
s i,
ed
' ('
it's fine.
2' MR. 3ICK'CT : We shuifled it around.
2-Eut, we nicked out from the Executive Order, i
1 a'
everything that was in there that made sense, that would i
i 3
acolv.
e i
1 6 !
CHAIRM.AN HENDRIE: Take another scan at some of the i
7I later items acainst some of the earlier ones, and just see I
d 3i if you think --
8 I
9 :t MR. BICKNIT: Eliminate redundancies?
5 i
10 CHAIRV.AN EENDRIE:
Putting them tocether in some i
'l l fashion.
12 i,
%R. BICKWIT:
All richt. Fine.
13 l CEARIMAN EENDRIE:
It seemed to me that we had i
i 14 l about three items talking about the events --
a i
15 j COMMISSIONER BRV) FORD:
I have to go -- I was 1
16 about to say that I did not think I was coing to miss a chance to vote on that.
I'll be bach to.orrm7
'~
13
- i I?.
CO.TIISSIONER GILINSKY:
Can vou wait just a minute, il 20 ]
Peter?
21 ;j At a minimum, Len, could vou get that list of names 22 5.. typed up just so that we will have that.
CEA RMAN EENDRIE:
And, if vou can have oeonie --
22 i.
Il well, I don' knew whether vou can do it.
But, a number of
%.,r nm,.m. i-:.
3 these cec =le will have at least brief bios in "American Men of
00
. +,',
a 1. >.
I I
Science," and various law bibliograchies.
mn 2
MR.3ICKNIT:
Martindale-Hubbell.
2 CHAIRMA'T EENDRII:
If vou could work f airlv fast, 1
4' just makinc xeroxes of a bio.
3
. sNER GILINSKY:
Do vou think you can out 6'
that together for tomorrow morning?
7
%R. BICKWIT:
Yes.
3 CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: It would helo us cet these 9
quys.
IO COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think we orettv soon need II to get to the coint where we start contacting ceocle and one 12' wav to do that is for us to indicate whom we recard as the 13 '
most likelv candidates out of the too half dozen or something.
I:. we can start contacting them -- 1: vou coulc.
1 15.!
make that um, Len, then everyone can start thinking about t
'6' their half a dozen, and Dick's got sc=e names he wants to have in 1
i5l CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Vic, are you going to tackle l
l 19 I the safety coard, Transportation Safetv Board?
I 20 '
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I don't know anybodv 21 over there,but I'll find somebody to get at them.
22 CRAIRMAN HENDR Z: I don ' t know anvbodv either.
~2 COMMISSIONER GILIMSKY:
I think I knew a lawver the;e, jus:
o give me a start.
m e:c.. :.
-e COM'iISSIONER KEMNEDY:
I would talk to a former
r 67
.s
'o,.a.
l s
-d.
Ij ma-er of the board.
2 COMMISSIOhTR AHEAR'iE : Vickie has a lot of informa-2.i ion. She has been talking to the General Counsel.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Okay.
I will co after 5
them.
6 CHAIRMAN EENDRIZ: Well, we've cot tne one name 7
Dick out in.
8 CONNISSIONER KENNEDY:
There nav be others.
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let mi ask:
Out o# this list ~
e 10 it looks to me of all the lawyers, thisk
)seems Il to be the one that seems to --
I2 ~
CHAIRMAM EENDRII:
Yes, a cowerhouse.
13 'I Probably means he won' t touch it with a ten-foot i
14
- ole.
15 MR. BICKNIT: I'm afraid I think so.
I5 COMMISSIONER 3RUFORD :
I would think it is worth
- i 17 j checking out a minimum of three or four.
I'm not readv to 4
18]
say todav that..
is the onw I would take if he were h
19 inclined to take it.
20 ;
COANISSIONER AHEAR'iE: So Len will cive us a list and 21,
we indicate the too three or four?
1 22 l'-
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let's do that by tomorrow 23
== ning, okav?
22 MR. SICKtCT: The list?
a
- t*3 S t30**tf t. I RC.
P 25 CO.T!!SSIONER GILI?ISFY: Yes, s
68
.. s.
MR.3ICKWIT:
Okav.
Om
- i 2
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: With as much of the bio 2
material.
- l 4 '
And let's try to get together tomorrow, sometimes, i
3 COMMISSIONER AHEA.TTE: Do we h. ave an ACRS meeting t:rcrret?
I i
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY-Tomorrow afternoon, and I have 7:
a 1:30 doctor's annointment.
t.
3 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:
That's at 3:30.
i i
9' It would be easier for me if we cot together -- I i
10 '
was going to say it would be easier for me if we got together j
II l before the ACMS meeting, but I quess that's out for Dick.
-l 12 COTTISSIONER GILINSKY: Could we get tocether late 13 !I morning?
i 14 '
The other alternative is af ter the ACRS neeting.
3 15 COMMISSICNER KENNEDY:
Late morning I acreed to 16 have lunch with that Japanese Commissioner who's visiting us, at l
11:30, so that I could make it to my doctor's appointment by 1:30.
t-t
'8 -
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Env don' t we do it af ter 1I the ACRS7 a
\\
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
All right, after ACRS.
l l
21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
.ine, i
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: So that is orobably like 22 4:30, 5:00 o' clock.
i (Whereucon, at 4:00 c....,
the hearing in the above-
.,.. a. :c.,.i. m:.
at entitled matter was adjourned.. )
/
f April 16, 1979
~
The attached transcripts are verbatim records of meetings of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission discussing the Commission's investigation of the accident at the Three Mile Island Nuclear Facility.
As is the case with all closed Commission meetings, (except wholly adjudicatory sessions) the meetings were recorded, and transcripts have been prepared in accordance with the Government in the Sunshine Act.
In accordance with Commission practice, the transcripts have been, and will continue to be reviewed and released to the public as promptly as practicable.
These transcripts have not been edited for possible inaccuracies in the discussion.
Accordingly, it should be understood that these transcripts are incomplete, may contain errors, and do not represent formal or official Commission statements on the matters discussed therein.
These meetings were closed for one or more of tha following reasons:
to protect the rights of an individual not to have his privacy invaded in an unwarranted fashion, (Subsection (c) (6)) of the Sunshine Act; to allow the Commission to discuss possible actions that would be significantly frustrated if prematurely discussed in public, (Subsection (c) (9) (B) ) ;
and to permit the Commission to discuss in private the possible initiation of adjudicatory proceedings, (Subsection (c) (10) ).
Portions of the transcripts contain material falling within the purview of the Sunshine Act Exemption 6 and 9 (B) and the Commission has determined to withhold those portions from public release in order to protect the personal privacy of l
the individuals involved and to prevent frustration of the Commission's ability to initiate and complete a thorough investigation of the Three Mile Island accident.
l a
a M