ML20199J206
| ML20199J206 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 08/22/1995 |
| From: | NRC OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS (OI) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20199J167 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-97-325 NUDOCS 9711280076 | |
| Download: ML20199J206 (64) | |
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i EXHIBIT 25 I
l l
1 97]12 g 6 971124 KEENAN97-325 PDR Case No. 1 95 013 Exhibit 25
. 1 1
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA l 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORif COMMISSION 4
3 +++++ ,
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS i
5 INTERVIEW 6 -------------------------------x 7 IN THE MATTER OF Docket No. 1 8 INTERVIEW OF : 195-013 9 KENNETH O'GARA 10 11 -------------------------------x 12 Tuesday, August 22, 1995 13 14 Conference Room 13, 2nd Floor, 15 PSE & G Administration Building i
16 End of Buttonwood Road 17 Hancocks Bridge, New Jersey 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted at 20 9:09 a.m.
21 BEFORE:
22 KEITH LOGAN, Investigator 23 24 25 .
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2 1 NPPEARAliCES :
2 On Behalf of the Interviewee:
' ~
3 MARK J. WETTERHAHN, ESQ.
4 MARCIA R. GELMAN, ESQ.
5 oft Winston & Strawn 6 1400 L Street, N . W.'
7 Washington, D.C. 20005-3502 8 202/371-5703 '
9 10 On Behalf of the Agency:
11 DRIAN McDERMOTT, RESIDENT INSPECTOR 12 475 Allendale Road 13 King of Prussia, PA 19406 14 610/337-5345 15 I
16 17 18 19 20 -
21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS j COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCR$ERS l 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (22 2M4433 W ASHINGTON, D C 20005 (202) 2M4433 l
! 3 1 PROCEEDINGS 2
10:21 a.m.
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Ken, we spoke last on 4 August 22, 1995 which was a subsequent interview to your 5 aarlier interview with us.
6 What I'd like to do now is I'd like to go over 7 .some additional questions and some points of clarification 8 on information you provided at that time. So just for your -
9 Lnformation this is a continuing series of interviews and 10 for the record, my name is Keith Logan, an Investigator 11 with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, King of Prussia, 12 Pennsylvania. With ine is Mr. McDermott.
13 MR. McDERMOTT For the record, my name is l
14 Brian McDermott. I'm a resident inspector with the Nuclear 15 Regulatory Commission Regional 1 Office.
16 MR. WETTERHAHN Again, I'm appearing on behalf 17 of Mr. O'Gara. This is Mark Wetterhahn from Winston &
18 Strawn. With me le Marcia Gelman. Our address is 1400 L
- 19 Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005.
20 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Mr. O'Gara, as before, you 21 desire to have Mr. Wetterhahn and Ms. Gelman here to 22 r epresent you with the knowledge that they, in , fact, 23 r epresent other individuals and the corporation in this 24 natter?
25 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
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I 4 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Mr. O'Gara, wa'vo hcd en 2 apportunity at our last meeting to discuss, I guess on 3 somewhat of a limited basis your four-week look aheads that -
4 you prepared in 1994.
5 Would you again for the record, please explain 6 s'ha t a f our-week Ic ok ahead is?
7 MR. O'GARA: The four week look ahead is used 8 lay licensing to identify to our supervisor tasks completed ,
9 for the previous week, tasks that are scheduled to be 10 performed and any areas of concern that we may have with 11 ,
the actionc that were taken.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What is the purpose of a 13 {ook ahead?
i 14 MR. O'GARA: It's a weekly status memo to our 15 oupervisors.
16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Sort of like your diary, 17 you use it in place of a planner or something like that?
18 MR. O'GARA: Sure, could be. .
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Did you ever sit down with 20 your supervisor and review what was written on it, the four 21 ucek look ahead?
22 MR. O'GARA: Not line by line, but if there 23 'ere issues on the four week look ahead, we would discuss t
24 those with our supervisors.
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So there wasn't a regular NEAL R. GROSS CoVAT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W 1232; 234 4433 WASHINGTON. D C P0005 (202) P34-4433
l 1 nocting that would toko placo with you and your cuporvicoro 2 as to what was written on these documents? )
3 MR. O'GARA: No, they were required to be ,
i 4 provided at the time of our -weekly staf f meeting .hich was '
l 5 asually held on Monday afternoon.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Who attended the weekly 7 staff meetings?
i 8 MR. O'GARA: All the people that reported 9 directly to my supervisor.
l t
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And your supervisor again 11 for the record was?
12 MR. O'GARA: David Smith.
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And during what period of i
14 ':ime was Mr. Smith your superviPOr? .
15 MR. O'GARA: Between, I think Deve was acting 16 Ln the December '93 tima frame, maybe earlier, maybe 17 liovember through approximately two weeks ago when we Teorganized.
18 4
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Who else was in your group 20 '; hat prepared t.he leur week look ahead? Was there anyone 21 <
else that did other than you?
22 MR. O'GARA: Sure, everyone was w quired to.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Who were those 24 Lndividuals? 1994 time frame.
25 MR. WETTERHANN' How many people were there?
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1 MR. O'GARA: M0yb3 12 or 15 psoplo in th]
2 licensing group reporting to Dave Smith.
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Can you rattle off some of 4 the names for the record?
5 MR. O'GARA: Sure. Bill McTigue, Dick 6 3eckwith, Dave Dodson, Wayne Graugh, Howard Onorato, Rob 7 l4alone, Kevin Zhbella, Will pond, Robin Ritzman, Stsve 8 Mannon, Rick Volare, Charlie Manus, Jim Priest. I think 9 ; hat might be it. There might be a few names I've left 10 out.
11 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And it was the 12 responsibility of each one of these individuals to prepare 13 what you've termed the four week look ahead?
14 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Do you know if Mr. Smith 16 also prepared a four week look ahead?
17 MR. O'GARA: No, I don't think he did.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Whose idea was it to 19 prepare the four week look ahead documents?
20 MR. O'GARA: I was, I guess, preparLng them for 21 a period of time when Ray Brown was a supervisor of the 22 group, although I didn't koop copies of those. I would 23 just update it on my computer.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Did you also send them to 25 Mr. Brown?
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1 MR. O'GARA: Yoo, cnd tho other thing was it ,
2 really wasn't a requirement to complete them, so there were 3 instances where a couple of weeks would go by where you a f
4 vouldn't submit one.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Do you know whether or not 6 tr. Smith reviewed the four week look ahead documents that 7 you provided to him?
8 MR. O'GARA: I thought he did, yeah. .
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And how did you come to 10 that conclusion? ,
la MR. O'GARA: I just assumed that he asked for 12 them and we g.sve them i.> him and he would use it to keep 13 track of completed tatsks. He had his own little system, I 3 '. guess, of keeping track of commitments and things like that 15 ; hat were due to the NRC and he would use those, I think to "4
indicate that items were complete.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And were there 18 conversations that you had with him that led you to believe 19 : hat he had reviewed your four week look ahead documents?
20 MR. O',GARA: Specifically, I can't recall.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Generally?
22 MR. O'GARA: Generally, yeah. If there was an 23 item that you were working on, if_there was a problem with 24 meeting a due date you would use the four week look ahead 25 <
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8 1 probably talk to hin directly oc wall. It would bo 2 identified on the four week look ahead, but obviously you 3 talked to him if you had an issue.
- 4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Concerning the areas of 5 :oncern is that an important area, an area of concern that 6 rou had, an area of concern tha^t Dave may have had or an 7 area of concern to the station in general,. what did that 8 :nean? ,
9 MR. O'GARA: Well, it's more -- a lot of times 10 'rou deal with just administrative concerns as well. In -
11 other words, like I said, if we had a commitment to the NRC 12 to submit our response by Janucry 31st and you needed 13 <
engineering input two weeks before that so-you could 14 3repare the letter and they didn't meet that commitment, 15 : hen obviously you would provide that to your supervisor 16 that engineering hadn't provided the proper support and the 17 ;3otential exists for you to impact that commitment.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And that would be -
19 ;
something you'd list in your area of concern?
20 MR. O'GARA: Correct.
21 IliVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So on January 31st your 22 a rea of concern, one of the items listed there was January 23 31, 1994, has issue regarding POPS set point 24 nonconservatism, may be reportable under 50-72. That was 25 the subject that you would have discussed then with Dave NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 MHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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9 1 Smith?
2 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
3 MR. WETTERHAHN: Did you discuss that with Dave 4 Smith?
5 MR. O'GARA: I think I recall discussing it 6 dith Dave as soon as I had gotten the fax from Charlie 7 Lashkari .
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Which would have been 9 January 25th of that year?
10 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
11 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You thought it was a 12 significant item, an important item and that's why you 4
13 listed it under your areas of concern?
14 MR. O'GARA: Correct.
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I notice on February 7th, 16 :ompleted tack from - . excuse me, for previous work, item 17 4. Issue on POPS to NME. NME again is?
18 MR. O'GARA: Mechanical engineering.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: The first one is nuclear?
20 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: For review, no IR written.
22 February 7 time frame, you pointed out that no incident ,
23 report had been written. Did you believe what should have 24 bein written? ,
25 MR. O'GARA: I recall discussing the need to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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10 1 drito en IR. '
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: With whom?
3 MR. O'GARA: I thought it was with mechanical
, 4 engineering.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Specifically?
6 MR. O'GARA: Mahesh Danak. It might have also 7 include SAL TECH because I recall also having conversations 8 aver that period of time with charlie Lashkari.
- 9 INVESTIGATOR LOCAN: Did you believe an IR 10 should have been written?
11 ,
MR. O'GARA: Based on the information that I 12 and in front of me and the fax, yes, I did at that point.
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You pointed out that no IR 14 aritten. Why did you highlight that? .
15 MR. O'GARA: It may have been an indication I
16 that discussions with e,ngineering indicated that they 17 ildn't feel an IR was required.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Would it also have 19 indicated that you uggested it and you were told no and 20 rou were explained *that it wasn't to be written and that's 21 ahy you wrote "no IR written"?
22 MR. O'GARA: It could'mean that, yes. Could 23 rou read back that question for me?
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Sure. Let's gc off the 25 cecord and if the reporter will read back the question and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPOR1dRS AND TRANSCRIBERS !
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11 1 Mr. O'Garo'o rocponco. -
2 (Off the record.)
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Having heard the response 4 and your response again, Mr., O'Gara, do you agree with your 5 response?
6 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
~
7 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Thank you. Let's look at 8 Harch, 1994.
9 We're skipping ahead, I guess, a month and a 10 balf or so or less. Tasks to be performed. What does this 11 mrea indicate?
12 MR. O'GARA: It indicates an issue that we're 13 Porking on, just a summary list of all the things I have on 14 my plate at that point in time.
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay, and point 4 is 16 potential LER regarding, POPS set point analysis.
17 Working on an LER?
18 MR. O'GARA: I was working on followup with 19 mechanical on the issues regarding the RH3 relief valve, 20 that's related to the POPS issue.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And what issue were you 22 vorking on with regard to RH3 valve and the POPS issue?
23 MR. O'GARA: Engineering had indicated to me 24 that they didn't feel the POPS issue was a safety concern 25 because they felt that we could credit that the relief NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBER $
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12 i i cop city of RH3 which would mako ouro that tho proacuro 2 temperature limits wouldn't be exceeded, the tech spec 3 limits would not be exceeded.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What about the issue of 5 operating outside the design basis? Would RH3 also have 6 addressed that issue?
. 7 MR. O'GARA: I don't think we ha'd gotten that 8 far along in the evaluation or the issue to -- we were 9 looking at whether or not we could credit RH3. If we could 10 :redit it, that means it should have been considered part 11 af our design bases. If we couldn't credit it, then it 12 looked like we were outside our design bases at that pcint 13 in time and that was the on-going discussion with 14 "
nechanical engineering at that point.
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Wasn't the issue that was 16 Taised on January 25 re*1ated to your being outside your 17 design bases?
18 MR. O'GARA: Yes, it was.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And at what point did you 20 :. hen move from a belief that or a supposition that you were 21 outside your design bases to the fact that you were not 22 outside your design bases and could use the RH3 valve?
23 MR. O'GARA: ' I guess what -- on March 7, '94 we 24 hadn't reached any conclusion from a licensing or an 25 engineering standpoint that we could credit RH3 and I think NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. O C 20005 (202) 2344433 s
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13 I 1 that'a the roccon why I uso tho werd "potontial". In other 2 words, it'hadn't been concluded that yes, we were outside 3 our design bases.
4 If we couldn't credit RH3, I felt we probably 5 were.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Now, if we can just jump
'/ ahead for a minute. Last week you mentioned you had a 8 conversation with Gita Narasimhan with regard to RH3? ~
9 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And when did you have that 11 conversation and what was the substance of it?
12 MR. O'GARA: I had that conversation 13 approximately a month ago, after we identified that the 14 safety telief valve tech spec bases may have given us the 15 .nbility to credit RH3 as overpressure protection when you 16 were in the shutdown mode and the safety relief valve tech '
17 : spec bases had been there since the issuance of the 18 operating license. And the question I had for Gita was 19 whether or not we could -- did she think we could credit 20 TH3 based on the safety relief valve tect. spec, the bases
-21 and she indicated to me that her initial assessment back in 22 he October 1993 time frame indicated that we couldn't 23 credit RH3. She said she'd look into it and she'd get back 24 to me. I think she called me later on that day or the next 25 day and she indicated to me that when you assume a 10 ,
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14 1 porcent occumulation, b ccd on a roliof valvo oct point of !
2 375 PSIG for RH3, if you added that the differential 3 pressure with the RCPs operating you would still exceed the 4 pressure temperature on this. She indicated to me that she 5 bad mentioned that to Mahesh back in the '93 time frame.
6 So to simplify it, she felt that even with an 7 RH3 set point or with a set point of 412 which includes the 8 10 percent accumulation and that would be the peak 9 pressure, peak RCS pressure, when you add the differential 10 pressure for the RCPs operating, you would exceed the 11 Simits.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And in the March 7 time 13 frame, you were not aware of discussions that she had with 14 Mahesh Danak? -
15 MR. O'GARA: No, not at all.
- 16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And Mahesh Danak did not 17 Inake you aware of those discussions at that time?
18 MR. O'GARA: No, not at all. In fact, I'm not 19 i sure if Gita was with the company at that point. I know 20 i nhe left for a period of time when she was transitioning 21 from a contractor to a PS employee, so in fact, I really 22 hadn't had any conversations at all with Gita on the issue, 23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: But she told you that in 24 '93, she had conversations with Mahesh Danak on the RH37 25 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
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89 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Would your undorctending
~
2 of the issue in March, if you can make this transition, 3 bave been any different if you had been aware of Ms.
- 4 4 Rarasimhan's conversation with Mr. Danak at that time?
5 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
C INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And how would that have 7 been?
8 MR. O'GARA: It would have answered the .
9 question of potential, I think.
10 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, when you first became 11 involved with this issue, did any of the engineers involved 22 present you with a draft justification for use of the RH3 13 /alve?
14 I'd like to present Ken with a copy of that 15 iocument. The title in this document reads, " Evaluation of 16 ionconservative Low Temperature Overpressure set Point for 17 Salem 1 and 2." The document is not signed or dated.
18 MR. O'GARA: I've never seen this document. -
19 MR. McDERMOTT Okay, thank you.
20 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Now, can I followup?
21 MR, McDERMOTT: Sure.
22 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So you're not aware of the 23 lalculation or methodology that Ms. Narasimhan may have 24 used with regard to any conclusions you made with regard to 25 :he RH3 valve?
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1 MR.:O'GARA: No. ShodidmOntiontoma'thbt- -
2- she_had done a rough calculation and concluded that witb- -
3 RH3 and a 412 PSI setpoint it would have excceded the PT -
4 limits.
4 5 'MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, when you first became 6 involved in this issue, were-you aware of any other j 7 licensitig engineers that had previously been involved with 1
8 tha POV3 issuo raised in the Westinghouse NSAL? .
9- MR.-O'GARA: No. ,
30 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Had you had any 11 discussions with Howard Onorato on the POPS issue?
12 MR. O'GARA: No.
~
- 13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Were you aware that Howard 14 Dnorato had discussions with Gita on the POPS issue?
15 MR. O'GARA: No.
1 16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What I'd like to do now is F
17- take a brief recess and pick this up in the afternoon if 18 t' hat's okay with you? Off the record.
19 (Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m., the interview wsa 20 recessed, to reconvene at 2:00 p.m., Tuesday,-August 22, 21 1995,-)
22 23
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17 1 AFTERNOON ~ SESSION ,
2 2:32 p.m.
3 INVESTICATOR LOGAN:- Mr. O'Gara,-you had an 4 opportunity to look at your. transcript in the prior 5 interview and I believe as you discussed with counsel 6 there's an additional statement you'd like to make to
-7. clarify some points. Is that correct?
8 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Mr. Wetterhahn?
10 MR. WETTERHAHN: Yes. On page 9 of the 11 transcript of your March 14, 1995 interview, you state on 12 line 10 that "I was pursuing having mechanical engineering, ,
l 13 as I recall I thought it was mechanical engineering to 14- drite a DEF to documen,t that we had a concern." .
15 In addition to mechanical engineering, did you 16 pursue documenting that concern in the January time frame 17 alth anyone else?
18 MR. O'GARA: Yes, I discussed writing an IR '
19- with system engineer, Charlie Lashkari, 20 MR. W$TTERHAHN: I have nothing further._ Mr.
21 3'Gara, you have read the transcript of your interview of I 22 Harch 14, 1995, have you not?
23 MR. O'GARA: Yes, I have.
24 MR. WETTERHAHN: Have you made certain 25 :orrections in the margin to that transcript?
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9 1 MR. O'GARA: Yss.
2 'G. WETTERHAHN: And with the clarification 3 that we just made and those marginal changes, is that -
4 transcript now true and correct to the best of your 5 knowledge, information and belief?
6 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
7 MR. WETTERHAHN: That's all I have, thanks.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Mr. O'Gara, if we could go ,
9 over a couple of issues that came up the last time we spoke 10 and I want to go over some of them with you.
11 You mentioned that there was a change with 12 regard to unit 2 in the temperature curve that you-did not 13 become aware of'until recently?
14 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Will you please explain 16 phat in a little more detail?
17 MR. O'GARA; By reviewing amendment 129 for 18 Salem unit 2, it appears that the pressure temperature 19 limits were greater, are greater than what was originally 20 considered during.the last year and a half of our 21 evaluation of the POPS issue. It appears that the limit is 22 greater by approximately 20 pounds or so.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Why is that? ,Why is it 24 r.uddenly greater? What changes are taking place or what is .
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19 1 limito to be 20 poundo grGator?
2 MR. O'GARA: In reviewing the license 3 amendment, they used Reg Guide-199 REF 2-as a basis for 4 performing, I guess, the chemical analysis of the specimens j i
5 that were removed from unit 2 back in I think the 1992 time ,
1 6 frame and by using Reg Guide 199, REF 2, it's a little less 7 conservative and therefore the limits have increased.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And this came to your 9 attention when?
10 MR. O'GARA: It was brought to my attention 11 during discussions with you, Keith, approximately five days ago.
12 13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You had not been aware of 14 that prior to August 16th? -
15 MR. O'GARA: No.
16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You also indicated you had 17 a conversatiot; with Mahesh Danak as to whether or not he 18 was aware of that. -Is that correct?
19 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
20 INVESk'IGATORLOGAN: What did he say?
21 MR. O'GARA: He indicated that he was unaware 22 of the revised pressure temperature limit.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You also indicated this 24 morning when you came in that you were working on a change?
25' What was that?
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1 MR. O'GARA: That'o en cction rcqu;at th2t wa3 2 2ntcrcd into, tha corrcctiva cction progrcm on I think it 3 wat Friday last week. -
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What is the purpose of 5 that?
6 MR. O'GARA: We initiated the action request to 7 bave mechanical engineering evaluate the increased pressure 8 temperature to determine if it had any impact' on the 50-59 9 evaluations that we had completed for unit 2.
10 MR. McDERMOTT: I just want to make sure we 11 ::larif y. We're discussing the PT limits for Salem unit 2?
12 MR. O'GARA: That's correct. It's only 13 applicable to unit 2.
14 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, to the best of your 15 Knowledge would that significantly change any of our 16 bechnical discussions regarding whethec or not the POPS 17 system would be capable of performing design function?
18 MR. O'GARA: No, I don't think so.
19 MR. WETTERHAHN: For the record, can we 20 i.dentify the action request number?
21 MR. O'GARA: The AR number is 950818200.
22 MR. WETTERHAHN: Thank you.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Ken, we've had an e
24 opportunity to talk to Dave Smith regarding the four week 25 Look ahead that you prepared.
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21 1 Mr. Smith indicatcd that ha really didn't epOnd 2 time looking at_these four week look ahead documents,other .
3 than to prepare monthly accomplishments and that he would 4 usually stack them up and put them in a corner of his room 5 until it came time to prepare that monthly report.
6 I got the impression from you earlier today 7 that there was some reasonable believe on your part that he 8 reviewed those monthly, those weekly forms and that he was 9 aware of the content and a timely basis, particularly when 10 you had items on your plate, projects to do and areas of 11 concern that you noted on your four week look ahead.
12 Was that impression not an accurate one, based 13 on your understanding of what he did with them?
14 MR. O'GARA: That's what I thought he used them 15 for. I thought he did take a look at them. He might have 16 scanned them, but I thought he did at least take a look at 17 them.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Again, what led you to 19 believe he actually looked at them?
20 MR. O'GARA: Forced us to write them once a 21 week.
22 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Conversations that you had 23 with him during the week, were there things in your four 24 week look ahead that were then brought up in conversations?
25 MR. O'GARA: Oh yes.
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22 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: W20 that poacibly one of 9
2 the reasons? ,
3 MR . O ' Gi ' .A : Definitely. If there was an area 4 of concern, he was either aware of it before you wrote it 5 in the four week look ahead.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Because you talked to him?
7 MR. O'GARA: Sure, yeah. I mean if we're 8 working on something that we feel is important, we would 9 spend the time to sit down and talk to him.
10 MS. GELMAN: You said he wrote it?
11 MR. O'GARA: Yeah, if I wrote it in the four 12 week look ahead.
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay, can we come back 14 again and -- I know we talked about this in your prior --
15 and we want to talk to you about it again. Are these the 16 faxes you received on Jknuary 25th? Do you know who that 17 fax was from?
18 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Who was it from?
20 MR. O'GARA: It 'ias from Charlie Lashkari.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And you have margin notes 22 on several pages, the first page which is actually labeled 23 page 2. Later on, you have questions or notes on the table 24 that's on -- what's labeled page 8, in effect, it's page 7.
25 What is it that you were raising as an issue NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234 4430 WASHINGTON. D C 20005 (202) 2344 433
23 1 here? What was the' significance of your notes? I'm trying 2 to understand what they mean. -
3 MR. O'GARA: Okay, would you like to do a table 4 first? .
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Yes, why don't you talk 6 about the table. That's one of the issues.
7 MR. O'GARA: On Table 1 of the fax, underneath ,
8 the maximum pressure calculated in POPS analysis, it says 9 no RCPs running, water solid, inadvertent started Si pump.
10 There are the assumptions I thought were being used.
11 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
12 MR. O'GARA: When they were doing the 13 evaluation.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What about the note to the 15 left on that?
16 MR. O'GARA: The note to the left is some rough 17 numbers that I calculated to see whether or not we were .
.- e 18 exceeding the tech spec limits.
19 INVEST.IGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
20 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, where were you getting the 21 assumptions from?
22 MR. O'GARA: They could have been written at 23 who knows what point in time.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So you don't know that all 25 the comments you made on this sheet were made about the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
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7 l
1 0000 tico frame? l 2 MR. O'GARA: That's right. I couldn't answer 3 that when they were made.
l 4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: All right. And in the 5 circle?
6 MR. O'GARA: In the circle, that looks like ;
l 7 they were numbers, rough numbers, based on the tables that 8 indicates that even with one RCP running which wasn't i
9 tabulated, but was discussed in the text --
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: The text being the Howard i
11 sorrick memo?
12 MR. O'GARA: Exactly, the memo itself. I added l
l 13 the numbers for 1 RCP and indicated that 477 Would still 14 exceed the 450 and the 475 limits for 1 and 2.
INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What was the significance 15 16 of this? ,
l Based on those numbers, we
, 17 MR. O'GARA ,
f 18 exceeded the PT limits.
l l 19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
. 20 MR. McDERMOTT These are your notes?
I
' Yes, 21 HR. O'GARA: Uh-huh.
f l'
22 MR. McDERMOTT Did you share your notes with 23 Charlie Lashkar17 24 MR. O'GARA: Probably not. .
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Dave Smith?
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I 25 1 MR. O'GARA: I'd CGy I prob 2bly chow:d thsm to 2 Dave. .
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: But no specific 4 recollection that you did?
5 MR. O'GARA: No, I just know that I talked with 6 Dave at various times on the issues.
7 MR. WETTERHAHN: And since you can't down pin 8 down when you wrote these notes, if you discussed them with 9 Dave Smith, you wouldn't know when you discussed them. Is 10 that correct?
11 MR. O'GARA: I couldn't tell you specifically 12 when I wrote the notes or when I talked with Dave Smith 13 with regard to the notes on the table.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: As a result of getting 15 this fax from Charlie Lashkari, did you discuss the need 16 for an IR to be writter$ with Mr. Lashkari?
17 MR. O'GARA: I thought I did. '
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Do you know whether or not 19 he wrote an IR as a result of your conversation?
20 Dbviously, you know later, but as a result of this 21 conversation and at the time do you know whether or not he 22 arote an IR?
23 MR. O'GARA: No, I couldn't say that. I just 24 :lon ' t know. .
25 MR. McDERMOTT: I'd like to skip ahead a little ,
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26 1 bit to tho May timo frcmo.
2 MR. WETTERHAHN: May I ask another question .
3 about the --
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Sure, we'll go back to 5 that.
6 MR. WETTERHAHN: Th'ere are additional notes on 7 page -- indicated page 2, but the first page that we've had 8 in the upper right hand corner.
9 Do you recall when you wrote those notes?
10 MR. O'GARA: That's on the original fax I -
11 received, so I probably wrote those notes within the first 12 couple days of rectipt of the fax from Charlie Lashkari.
13 MR. WETTERHAHN: Thank you.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Go ahead.
15 MR. McDERMOTT: Did you receive an answer to 16 that, your questions?
17 MR. O'GARA: It's like I said, I don't recall 18 ever specifically getting an answer to that quick question, 19 but I felt we discussed it with Charlie, the need to write 20 an IR.
21 MR. McUERMOTT: Okay. That's all I have. I'd 22 like to move ahead to the May time frame. I direct your 23 attention to a Howard Berrick memo dated 5/26/94.
24 MR. WETTERHAHN: The witness now has that.
25 MR. McDERMOTT: Okay, this letter was a follow-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. O C. 2000$ (202) 234 4433
27 1 up to the 12/30/93- Berrick memo. Again, this memo is dated 2 May 26, 1994. This memorandum basically closes out the .
3 issue the second time.
4 Ken, if you would, take a look at Table 1, 5 attached to this memo.
6 MR. O'GARA: Okay.
7 MR. McDERMOTT: What can you tell me about the ,
8 assumptions regarding running reactor coolant pumps in May, 9 at.this point in time?
10 Go off the record for a moment, please.
11 (Off the record.)
12 -INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Back on_the record.
13 MR. McDERMOTT: Back on the record. Now that 14 you've had a chance to locate your original copy of that 15 memorandum and the table attached, the question was can you 16 tell me what assumptions regarding running reactor coolant 17 pumps was used in the analysis presented in that table?
18 MR. O'GARA: For the mass input case, it did 19 not assume any reactor coolant pumps operating.
20 MR. McDERMOTT: And this is the issue which 21 we've discussed before to mean the bubble, having the 22 bubble available in the pressurizer? ,
23 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
24 MR. McDERMOTT: When did engineering come back 25 to you and informed you that the bubble theory was not an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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28 1 2ppropriato way to dieponition tho icous?
2- MR. WETTERHAl!N:- That presupposes it came back 3 to you. How was it discovered that that was not a valid 4 -- assumption, that the pretsurizer, that the bubble would 5 remain in the pressurizer? Can you tell us how that was 6 discovered later?
7 MR. O'GARA: I guess some time during the 8 summer after I had a chance to review a calculation that 9 they had completed. That calculation assumed that you 10 would lose the bubble in the pressurizer and the 11 ,
pressurizer would go water solid and when I reviewed that 12 calc, to me it contradicted the assumptions that were used 13 in the May 26th letter.
14 MR. McDERMOTT: May 26th letter essentially '
15 closes out the issue based on the bubble?
16 MR. O'GARA:' That's correct. And that we would 17 not run an RCP in a-water solid condition.
18 MR.-McDERMOTT: So the calculations you're 19 referring to, do you have references as far as the dates 20 that were initiated?
21 MR. O'GARA: The calculation was initiated on 22 -- I recall, May 9th, 23 MS. GELMAN: I think it's May lith.
24 MR. O'GARA: That's it, May lith. I'm sorry.
25 -MR. McDERMOTT: So that calculation was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344 433
29 1 initiotOd cni May lith and you just told as that tha -
2 assumptions in that described that the bubble would go .
3 away, yet the May 24th Howard Berrick memo-indicates that 4 the bubble was the basis for closing out the issue?
5 MR. O'GARA: That's correct. I'd also like to 6 point out at the bottom of the original May 26th letter
^
7 that was forwarded to me from Dave Smith, that we had two 8 questions that required engineering to answer. One of the 9 comments was mine and I'm reading off the bottom of the 10 original letter. I said, " disagree with the assumption 11 that no RCP is running in mass input case. Will the 12 pressurizer go solid?"
13 So we had actually discussed after this letter 14 was issued, the assumption that we would not run an RCP in 15 a water solid condition as part of the closure of this time 16 and engineering again Indicated to us, after we posed that 17 question-to them that we would not run an RCP in a water 18 solid condition.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
20 MR. O'GARA: A second comment that was provided 21 to engineering-had to do with a comment that Dave Smith.
22 asked me to follow up on and that had to do with the .7. I 23 aave a copy of this letter that Dave Smith, circling that 24 number,-with an arrow pointing to it and we went back to
- 25 engineering and indicated to him that we felt .7 was not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLANC AVENUE, N W.
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si s, u-ea a:a A .wa i
30 1 acc0ptable. It still oxessdsd tha curve and the answ.c to 2 that question was based on the gothic computer code that ,
3- indicated that the pressures would be less than 450, a ,
preliminary gothic computer code without credit for RH3.
I 4
5 And that number is discussed in the text of the letter.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I'd like to go over a 7 couple of documents with you and these are documents that 8 were to provided to us by counsel after our meeting last 9 week. ,
10 MR. O'GARA: Okay.
11 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: The first one, it's the 12 August 17th letter from Winston & Strawn to the NRC. The 13 first two documents that are there are I guess an earlier 14 version of the Berrick memo dated October 29, 1993 and the 15 second one is the Berrick memo dated December 30, 1993.
16 can you tel1 ne how you received the earlier 17 version. It's dated October 29 of '93 and that's when Gita .
18 das still here at Salem, still concerning 93-917.
19 MR. O'GARA: I can't recall specifically when I 20 ceceived a copy of this, but it was probably within the 21 last three months, three to four months.
22 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So you didn't have this 23 aack in '93 and '94 time frame?
24 MR. O'GARA: No. I thought I received this 25 from a person in fuels, some time in the last like say NEAL R GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W_
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31 i i
1 thrco or four months. I 2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Do you know what it was an 3 attachment to, of?
4 MR. O'GARA: No.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Who in fuels would have 6 sent it to you?
7 MR. O'GARA: If you look at it, very faintly 8 there are the initials P.B.C.
9 INVEST!uATOR LOGAN: Where is that? That's not 10 even readable on my copy.
11 Oh, P.B.C. 2/22/93.
12 MR. O'GARA: Uh-huh. .
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And who is P.B.C.?
14 MR. O'GARA: P.B.C. is Pam Cowan. -
15 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What does she do?
16 MR. O'GARA: She works in the fuel group.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Do you know how she would 18 aave ccme into possession of that document?
19 MR. O'GARA: I thought she received it from 20 engineering.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: How would this relate to 22 :Pam's responsibilities?
23 MR. O'GARA: I believe to the POPS issue. I 24 ;cnow that she was working with a Penn State graduate 1 25 :s tudent who was doing a master's thesis on --
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32
-1 INVESTIGATOR LOGANS You maan this wholo POPS 2 issue is someone's graduate thesis?
3 MR. O'GARA: No. He was trying to develop a '-
4 do an analysis for revising the POPS set points so you 5 could increase the set points incrementally as you're 6- starting up. -
7- It's obvious that if you're at 250 degrees, 8 naving a 375 set point really doesn't do.too much for you, 9 bhe actual peak pressures at that point are well above 10 that.
11 -
So she was just gathering information with i
12 regard to POPS and she had provided some of that 13 information to me for my information like I have some of 14 :he drafts of the thesis that this person did from Penn 15 State and in talking with her a few months ago, I thought 16 she had gotten me a copy of this. Just in passing, I came 17 across it.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So this draft made it all 39 uhe way out to Penn State?
20 MR. O'GARA: It might have, yes.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: But it never made it to 22 'ssuance in the October time frame?
23 MR. O'GARA: That's correct. I think it was 24 oventually issued, this formed the basis for the December 25 30, '93 letter that was never issued.
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33 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Itcm 4 in that 1sttcr-10 2 chronology of licensing, involvement in events associated, 4
3 POPS nonconservatism issue. Tell me when this was prepared 4 and by whom?
5 MR. O'GARA: I wrote this, probably in January 6 t;ime frame.
7 INVESTIGATOR _ LOGAN: What year.
8 MR. O'GARA: This year.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Why did you write this?
10 MR. O'GARA: I was asked to put together a 11 :hronology of the events for my manager.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I noticed there was 13 aothing for January, February, March. Is there some re.ason 14 for that? Am I missing a sheet?
15 MR. O'GARA: No, that's the beginning of it.
16 'fe talked about as of the April '94 time frame and what 17 orought us to that point in time.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay, is it that he didn't 19 'vant you to talk about it in January, February and March or 20 rou chose not to o'r why does it start in April?
21 MR. O'GARA: It actually talks a little bit 22 about what happened, talks about the December, the April ,
23 '94 letter. Talks-about December 30th and then it talks 24 about all our discussions on-going with NME to write a DEF.
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Without any dates?
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34 1 MR. O'GARA: Uh-huh. It was more a summary.
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay. .
3 MR. O'GARA: It wasn't a specific bullet by 4 bullet chronology of all the things that took place.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And it says the specific 6 details of the evaluation to be discussed in Attachment 1.
7 That's at the end of the first paragraph. Do you have ,
8 Attachment 17 9 MR. O'GARA: I might have on my desk. I used 10 to have a nice clip file of all the background information.
11 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Attachment 2 is the DEF.
13 MR. O'GARA: Attachment 1 was probably the 13 December 30th letter, just by reading it. Although it's 14 ,
entitled April 1994, that first paragraph discusses the 15 December 30, '93 memo.
16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So your best recollection 17 is that the Berrick memo of 12/30/93? ,
4 18 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
19 INVEST,IGATOR LOGAN: Item 5. Is this the DEF 20 that was prepared?
21 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
22 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Prepared by Mahesh Danak?
23 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: There are some margin 25 notes on the second page. I can't make that out on my NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISuND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (200 234-4433 1 . ,
, _ . . _ _ . . . _ . _ _ _ . _ .- ...__.__m._. , _ - . , _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ . _ .
1 copy. . .
1 1
~
2 MR. WETTERHAHN: ' Jest one second. {
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What does that say?
l .4 MR. O'GARA: 11 can't~ read it.
5 MR. WETTERHANN: Let me try_thits one. Just 6 give that answer, if you can.
i
? 7 MR. O'GARa: I can't read it.-
. 8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: How about che next page, -
9- thers's a margin note there also on the right.
10 !!R. O ' GARA: It says " add RCP operating.
11 restriction."
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What's the significance of 13 that?
14' MR. O'GARA: It says "the discrepancy 15 - identified in the DEF can be resolved through one of the 16 following approaches. , Case N514 approval, completed calc 17 for LTOP using RH3." And-I added the comment "we should 18 add the RH3 operating restrictions."
~
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: .That's 27B? Is that what -
N 20- you would be doing?
21- MR. O'GARA:- That's correct. That looks like 22 that's related to-item-7 on the DEF.
'23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: LOkay. Item 6. It's a DEF
=24 with a little tab'on the frent-of it.- It says " talked to-27 DAS." -I think.we discussed this a little bit last-time.
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36 1 Did you talk to Davo Smith about this?
2 MR O'GARA: Yes, I-did. -
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And when did you talk-to 4 Dave Smith about this? ,
5 MR. O'GARA: Probably the same day that I.
G received it?
7 INVESTIGATOR LOGAli: And with regard to your 8 comments, no for IR and no for operability. What is the 9 significance of that?
10 MR. O'GARA: It looks like I was questioning 11 mechanical engineering's determination that the DEF vas not 12 considered an operability concern and did not think that an 13 IR was required.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Did you communicate that 15 to Dave Smith?
16 MR. O'GARA! Yes, I did.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What was his comment?
18 MR. O'GARA: We talked about writing an IR.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And did he suggest you 20- write one or not write one?
21 MR. O'GARA: We wrote one.
22' INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You wrote one?
23 MR. O'GARA:- Yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: He agreed with your
.25 writing-of the-IR?
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37 1 MR. O'GARA: YC3.
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Did you at that time also l l
3 talk to Mahesh Danak?
4 MR. O'GARA: Yeah, I probably did. -
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Probably, but you don't 6 specifically remember? ;
7 MR. O'GARA: I don't recall.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: How about Charlie 9 Lashkari?
10 MR. O'GARA: I don't recall.
11 MR. WETTERHAHN: Want to add something?
12 MR. O'GARA: I just want.to add that I probably 13 did just because of the nature of the DEF and the fact that 14 we were writing an IR. I probably made them aware we felt 15 that an IR was required.' After the IR was drafted, we did 16 identify to them -- alfc.wed them, gave them the opportunity 17 to raview the IR after it was drafted.
l 18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And items 7 through 11 are 19 draft irs?
20 MR. O'GARA: Yes, that's correct.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I notice they're all dated 22 4/20/94, all concern Salem 1 and 2.
23 MR. WETTERHAHN: Didn't we discuss these 24 extensively during the first interview?
, 25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: We did. .
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38 1 MR. WETTERHAHN: Can you idsntify th303 cc tho 2 same ones we discussed?
3 MR. O'GARA: I recall during the first 4 interview that we went through and categorized each one of 5 the irs. There were three versions of it. One was the 6 draft, the second was that that' was discussed in the April 7 21st meeting and the third was another version that I 8 drafted following the April 21st meeting where I had madr 9 some additional changes that were never reviewed.
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And with the ones that se 11 have here, we started off with three at that first 12 interview.
13 Do you have any idea where in time these fit?
14 Because I notice there are comments on -- number 7 seems to 15 have an awful lot of attachments to it, including the DEF 16 that was written by Mahesh Danak as an attachment to your 17 IR draft. I don't recall that from the earlier ones.
18 There are notes on item 8 and they appear to be made by two 19 different people. I'm trying to find out who they are.
20 Are they your notes er somebody else's?
21 MR. O'GARA: The notes on the first two 22 paragraphs on page 2 are mine. All the other comments are 23 someone else's.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Do you recognize the 25 handwriting? Dave Smith, possibly or someone else you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 23 4 433 Yr ASHINGTON, D C 20005 (202) 23 4 433
1- worked with?
2 ~ MR. O'GARA: I don't recognize the handwriting.
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay. Let's go off the '
4 record for a minute.
5 (Off the record.)
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Item 13 and item 14 are 7 both memos from Berrick to Wiedemann, dated May 26 of '94.
8 On copy 14 from the letter, there's a memo at the top, it's .
9 Frank Thompson, see page 4 for action. I believe your 10 initials, KOG. Is that writing yours? In other words, 11 were you sending that note to Frank Thompson for action?
12 MR. O'GARA: Oh no. No.
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Because your initials are 14 there. Would your initials indicate what, then?
15 MR. O'GARA: My initials, that handwriting is 16 3robably Dave Smith's where KOG goes up.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Dave Smith's.
18 MR. O'GARA: That's right. -
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Is the handwriting of KOG 20 the same as the other handwriting, can you tell?
21 MR O'GARA: I'd say no. That's Frank's 22 :1andwriting right there.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Right where?
24 MR. O'GARA: Those three marks.
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: At the bottom right of NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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L 40 I that box that osys m2ntgar, lic0nsing end regulation?
2 MR. O'GARA: .That's correct.- That's Frank ,
3 Thompson's handwriting. SOH is Frank's secretary.
1 4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay. And you don't 4
5 recall bringing anything to Frank's attention, right with 6 regard to this memo?
7 MR. O'GARA: Except for the meeting that we 8 had.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: All right.
10 MR. WETTERHAHN: On page 4, Ken, there are two 11 , actions required of licensing, are they not?
12 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
13 MR. WETTERHAHN: Would it be natural for those 14 actions to be brought to the attention of Mr. Thompson's 15 disposition? Would that be an explanation?
16 MR. O'GARA: Yes, that's what the note at the 17 top of page 1 indicates, 18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Let's go on to item 15, 19 It's a memo from O'Gara to Smith dated 6/2/94.
20 MR. O'GARA: Okay.
21 INVESTIGATOR LCGAN: Apparently it starts out 22 with the stickie on the front, a yellow -- two of them.
23 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: On the top I have it 25 appears-to be one, but I'd like to ask you about No. 7. It NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 ' (202) 2344 433
41 1 hco Vic -- th9 laot nam 3 10 what, KGn?
- 2 MR. O'GARA: Fregonese. ,
3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: How would you spell that?
4 MR O'GARA: F-8-E-G-O-N-E-S-E. ,
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And what's written after 6 bis name?
7 MR. O'GARA: Below his name is written 8 summater, response.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Go ahead.
10 MR. O'GARA: Underneath that it says yes, 11 ceportable, and.it's circled.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And to the right of that 13 is "no safety hazard"?
14 MR. O'GARA: No safety hazard and below that, 15 :res.
16 INVESTIGATO'R LOGAN: Who made those comments?
17 MR. O'GARA: That's ny handwriting.
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Is that your comment or 19 :rour comments of what Frank told you or what Vic told you?
20 or is it something-else?
21 MR. O'GARA: They look like notes from my voice 22 nail.
23 MR. WETTERHAHN: Can you tell me what a 24 numnater is?
25 MR. O'GARA: This had to do with a port 21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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42 1 icoun that wo waro ovaluating ct tho tim 3, that wa 2 eventually reported to the NRC. That's the way I recall 3 it. I have to look at the tecnnical details.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: The form it's attached to 5 is status of items while on vacation. So you think.it's a 6 voice mail message that you had --
7 MR. O'GARA: While I was gone.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: While you were gone.
9 MR. O'GARA: That's correct. l 10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
11 MR. WEfru m : Based upon your review of the 12 June 2nd memo, that item 7 that we just discussed, which 13 paragraph of the memo does it refer to?
s 14 MR. O'GARA: It's referring to Part 21,94-003.
15 MR. WETTERHAHN: Those are the words beginning 16 in the third paragraph?
If 17 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
18 MR. WETTERHAHN: Okay.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Item 17, memo from Smith 20 to Bailey, dated September 28, 1994. Did you prepare this 21 memo?
22 MR. O'GARA: Yes, I did.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What was the purpose of 24 the memo?
25 MR. O'GARA: The purpose of the memo, when I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE N W (202) 2344433 WASHtNGTON D C. 20005 (202) 2344 433
43 1 originally aterted drafting it in.the August tima frama wao 2 to identify to mechanical a concern that I had with their 3 June 13th calc.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Why were you concerned 5 with their cales?
6 MR, O'CARA: I was concerned because the 7 assumptions that an RCP would only be placed in operation 8 with a bubble in the pressurizer was which they considered 9 during the closure of the Westinghouse NSAL was no longer 10 valid.
11 MR. McDERMOTT: Closure, you're referring to 12 the May -- ,
13 MS. GELMAN: 26th, 14 MR. McDERMOTT: May 26th memorandum?
15 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
16 INVESTIGATdR LOGAN: Why was it no longer 17 valid?
18 MR. O'GARA: May 26th memo assumed that you 19 would never operate a-reactor coolant pump in a water solid 20 condition. The calc assumptions concluded that eventually-21 you would lose the bubble. Your reactor ecolant pumps 22 would continue to operato and therefore you would operate
- 23. an RCP in a water solid condition.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Is that correct?
i l7 5 MR. O'GARA: Yes. ,
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44 a MR. McDERMOTT Tnio 10 the locuo wo diccusccd 2 before as far as the timing goes when that calc was 3 initiated versus the date of engineering clone out memo orf 4 May 26th.
5 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN:. And on page 3 you have 7 calculations highlighted paragraph 2 with stars next to 8 that?
t 4
9 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Is there any reason why ,
11 y_ou starred that or why it is starred?
j 12 MR. O'GARA: No, just for emphasis. Maybe we 13 were talking about that paragraph at that point in time.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What about the 645 GPM 15 listed in paragraph 37 16 MR. O'GARAt That's a typo. It should be 675.
, 17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Okay.
18 MR. McDEkMOTT };en, I have a question for you 19 ebout the April 21st .neating in Frank Thompson's office.
20 During that meetilig were there individuals present from the 21 engineering organization?
22 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
23 MR. MODERMOTT: And do you recall who they 24 were?
- 25 MR. O'GARA: The individuals pre: tent from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W. -
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45 l
1 Ongin:cring included Mohoch D nnk, Vijoy Chondre, Howcrd 2 Berrick and Jerry Ranalli. -
t 3 MR. McDERMOTT Would those individuals have 4 been involved in the initiation and review or approval of ,
5 the calculations which were to be performed after that l
6 date?
7 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
8 MR. McDERMOTT And did any of those 9 individuals bring up at that meeting concerns about the 10 pressurized bubble going away?
11 MR. O'GARA: No. I don't recall that being 12 discussed.
13 MR. WETTERHAHN Do you have any knowledge that
- i April 20th or 21st, those individuals knew about the 14 15 pressurizer bubble going away?
16 MR. O'GARA No.
17 -INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I'd like to ask you a 18 little bit about what's in item 22 and 23. It's a memo 19 from K. O'Gara-to D. Smith dated April 6, 1995 and Item 23, 20 same memo, same date, but then it's circled as to May 16, 21 1995.
22 MR. O'GARA: .Okay. .
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Subject, Evaluation of 24 Reported Requirement and' Root Cause. Assessment Associated 25 with Pressurizer Over Pressure Protection System Issues, IR NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORT 5RS AND TRANSCAIBER$
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._.,-._'I
46 1 95-3430 2 MR. WETTERHAHN: Give one second to look at 3 those.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I'ta just reading the 5 heading, Mr. Wetterhahn.
6 MR. O'GARA I'm there.
7 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Can you explain what the 8 purpose of this memo was and what the differences are in 9 the two drafts.
10 MR. O'GARA: I was requested to provide an 11 evaluation of the reporting requirements associated with 12 the POPS issue after receipt of the NRC inspection report, 13 94-32.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And when you say the 15 reporting requirements, what are you talking about? Are 16 you talking about a 50-72 reporting?
17 . MR. O'GARA: That's correct. One of the 18 v'iola'tions, potential violations that the NRC identified '
19 had to do with failure to report the issue as being outside 20 design bases. And I was asked t.o do an evaluation of t,he 21 information that I knew r.s of the April /May time frame of 22 this year to determine whether or'not we felt that it was 23 or was not reportable.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Okay. What did you
, 25 conclude?
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47 ,
1 KR. O'GARA: I ccnolud:d that I folt it woo -
2 reportable based on being outside our design bases as of 3 December 30, 1993 for both units.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: ,
And at the end of -- I 5 guess on page 5 there are a series of changes or notations.
6 Whose notations are on this draft?
7 MR. O'GARA: That's all my handwriting.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Did you make those 9 notations based upon your review of this or upon someone 10 else's comments to you about the draft?
11 MR. O'GARA: No, that was my review. A lot of 12 times after I type it up, I'll sit down and read it and 13 then I'll just make some notes and go back in and type them 14 into the computer. -
15 I also want to point out too, since there's no 16 reference number as an' internal memoranda, that this was 17 something that I had just drafted. I'm not sure we had 18 intended to issue this formally. It was just my supervisor 19 had asked me to perform a task and this was a memo from me ,
20 to him documenting what I felt our position should be. It 21 was never intended to issue this letter to the 22 organization.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So you did send it to Dave 24 Smith though?
- 25 MR. O'GARA
- Yes.
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48
! 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: But it didn't b:como a 2 formal document within the utilities system because there's 3 no number on it. Is that it?
l 4 MR. O'GARAt That's correct.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: When did you actually send 6 it to Dave, do you know? I notice the second one --
7 MR. O'GARA It was probably --
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN May 16th.
9 MR. O'GARAt Probably in May.
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You also indicated that 11 you were in tha process of preparing, or someone was in the i
12 process of preparing another LER? Is that correct?
l 13 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And that LER also has to 15 do with the POPS system?
16 MR. O'GARA:' Yes.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And what is the purpose of 18 the LER?
19 MR. O'GARA: The LER is to report that Salem 20 units 1 and 2 were considered outside of their design bases 21 from December 30, 1993 up until a point in time where we 22 revised the tech spec bases for POPS.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Your memo to Dave Smith, 24 doesn't it indicate it was your feeling you guys were '
25 outside the design bases.from that date anyway?
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49 1 MR. O'GARA: Th:t'a correct.
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So do you know if this-new ,
3 LER ja based on your input to Dave?
4 MR. O'GARA: It was based on the evaluation I l
5 that was performed to address the two irs that arn 6 referenced in my memo. To give you a little more detail, 7 after the NRC inspection report was received and after an 8 independent review was performed of the POPS issue, nuclear 9 safety review initiated two irs. One of them had to do 10 with failure to report to the NRC outside the design bases.
11 The other one had to do with failure to complete 50-59
- 12 safety evaluations when we changed the design bases for 13 POPS.
~
i 14 The supplement to the LER was the result of 15 those investigations plus completion of a root cause .
i 16 evaluation. It was co!npleted in-house by PSIG.
17 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, in reading the draft LER 18 document --
19 MR. WETTERHAHN: Do we have that?
20 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: That is document 24 on 21 your memo dated August 17, 1995.
22 MR. McDERMOTT Just in general, Ken, what I 23 was looking to clarify was what this -- can we go off the 1
24 record for a second?
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Sure. .
P NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 HHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 234 4433
50 1 (Off the record.)
2 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, what I'd like to know is 3 just in general, if you could, what appears to be different 4 in this revised LER, it discusses a 50-59' changes to the !
5 design bases of the system. Is that correct?
6 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
i 7 MR. McDERMOTT: And at the time of the original 8 I.ER was written, that is not the case?
9 MR. O'GAlti: That's correct. The LER was 10 submitted, I think, a week before the 50-59 was completed. ,
11 MR. McDERMOTT Can we take 10 minutes?
I 12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Let's go off the record.
13 (Off the record.)
14 MR. WETTERHAHN: Do we have any additional 15 documents?
4 16 MS. GELMAN:. He just mentioned one.
17 MR. WETTERHAHN: What document is that?
19 MR. O'GARA: It has to do with relief 20 capability of the 'RH3 valve, an issue that Westinghouse 21 identified.
22 MS. GELMAN: We can copy it and give it to you.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Ken, looking at item 26,
.24 the letter. I guess there's a yellow stickie or whatever 25 they're called, Post-It. can you tell me who wrote this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENVE N W. ,
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51 l
1 and what it ocyo? It otorto off, "cro wo juotified in" --
2 MR. O'GARA: It says "Are we justified in 3 basing this submittal on calculation form using a computer 4 model for which we don't have QA certification."
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What's that referring to?
6 MR. O'GARA: I think this is referring to the 7 collegial self-assessment that was done. I'm not sure 8- whose note that is.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN The document that is 10 attached to it though is a letter to the NRC on ASME code 11 case 514.
12 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
13 INVESTIGATOR LOGhN: And this is the request to 14 use the ASME code case, isn't it? -
15 MR. O'GARA: Yes, it is.
16 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And would the calculations 17 contained in this request based on the LOFTRAN code, if you 18 know?
19 MR. O'GARA: Gothic.
20 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Gothic code. Do you 21 recall whether or not the memo mentions the gothic code is 22 used? .
23 MR. O'GARA: Yes, it does.
24 INVESTIGATOR. LOGAN: It does mention that.
-25 MR. WEM ERHAHN: It is an attachment?
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. 52 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: It'D cn attcchm3nt to tho i.
, 2 rest of the letter. <
r . ;
3 MR. O'GARA: On the third paragraph on page 2 4 it references gothic.
5 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay. Do you recognize 6 the handwriting?
7 MR. 08GARA: No, I don't.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You don't recall who wrote 9 this?
10 MR. O'GARA: No, but it sounds like it was 11 something that was identified during the CSA just recently.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And the next item, item 27 13 is the same document with a note in the upper right hand
- 14 corner dated 11/18/94.
15 It's a draft of code case N514 letter revised 16 to includo discuosion of PDP operation. Please provide 17 comments to me as soon as possible. Ken O'Gara, 1370. Who 18 were you' sending this to?
19 MR. O'GARA: These are Dave Smith's comments.
20 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You were sending that to 21 Dave Smith?
22 MR. O'GARA: Yes. I provided a draft, probably 23 to four or five people and there were comments from Dave 24 Smith. <
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: These were Dave's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBER $
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53 1 com:0nto? .
2 MR. O'GARA: Yes.
t 3 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Was that usual?
4 MR. O'GARA: He took out a lot of the details.
5 Eventually, they were all put back in.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Item 28. Whose comments 7 are these?
8 MR. O'GARA: These are my comments.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: It says "please read, 10 let's discuss." Who signed it at the top of the page?
11 MR. O'GARA: Bill McTigue.
12 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Okay, that's what I i
13 couldn't read. This was a draft, I guess was never signed.
14 There's no date on it. It's undated, right?
15 MR. O'GARA: I don't know. It was given to me 16 for information and I provided comments back to Bill.
17 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You didn't prepare this 18 then?
19 MR. O'GARA: No, this was prepared by Bill 20 McTigue.
21 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: It's not related to this?
22 MR. O'GARA: No, this is the inadvertent SI at 23 power.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay.
25 MR. O'GARA: Where the concern with POPS was at NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C 20005 (20h 2344433
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54 1 low tenp3rcturo.
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Thank you. Item 29, who
~
3 is asking the questions, I think, whose initials are on 4 that?
5 MR. O'GARA: Dave Dodson's.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What's Dave's position?
7 MR. O'GARAt Dave is now principal engineer in 8 riuclear licensing for Salem.
9 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And at the time he wrote ,
t 10 this, the fax is dated 4/5/95. It should be some time 11 ,htter that. Do you recall what his position was at the 12 time?
13 MR. O'GARA: It might have Lean acting PE.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Off the record for a .
15 moment, please.
16 (Off the record.)
17 MR. WETTERHAHN Those are the values that --
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: You brought the document 19 that you have in front of you with you earlier today and we 20 were discussing it. If you could identity it for the 21 record, please?
22 MR. O'GARA: This document is W cap 13366 dated 23 June 19, 92 and this is a plot of the 20 degree per hour 24 cool down that values used to plot the 20 degree per hour ,
I 25 cool down curve that's currently in the unit 2 tech specs.
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55 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN Okcy. >
2 MR. McDERMOTT The basis of the tech spec 3 smendment for unit 2 which is put in the less-restrictive .
4 PT curves that we had been discussing during the original 5 part of this interview and during my original inspection?
6 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
7 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Ken, I'd like to talk to '
C rou again about the memo which was called the valuation of 9 nonconservative low temperature pressure set forth for 10 Salem 1 and 2. That was the document that was prepared by 11 31ta Narasimham.
12 ,
The question that I have,on this is if you had l
13 this document at the time that you were discussing with 14 Hahesh Danak and others the use of the RH3 valves as a .
15 reason why you were not operating outside your design 16 basis, would you still have believed that you were not 17 outside your design basis? .
18 MR. O'GARA: No.
19 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: What is there within this 20 document that would cause you to discount what Mahesh Danak 21 was telling you in January, February, March time frame that 22 the RH3 valve or use of the RH3 valve was a sufficient-23 basis to overcome the POPS problem?
24 MR. O'GARA: This document indicates that for
.25 four cps in service -- ,
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56 1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: WhOro 10 that in tho 2 document?
3 MR. O'GARA: The third paragraph on page 2. It '
4 indicates that if you add the 74 psi pressure difference 5 from the operating RCPs based on a 412.5 psig set pressure
~
6 for the RH3 relief valve, you would have exceeded your 7 pressure temperature limits for units 1 and 2.
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: I guess what I'm having 9 trouble with at this point from a technical standpoint is 10 aow someone can be relying on the RH3 valves in the 11 beginning of '94 and other engineers at the plant are 12 saying that the RH3 cannot be used a year prior to that.
13 das there something different with what you were being told 14 in '93 that would make this memo not applicable? I' don't -
15 anderstand it. ,
16 MR. O'GARA! I think you meant 1994 in your 17 question, but --
18 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: But you were being told in 19 '94 versus what this memo says in '93?
20 MR. O'GARA: I agree. This memo indicates that 21 we couldn't have credited RH3 at that point in time. And
, 22 if we had known about it instead of going back and forth 23 with discussions in engineering, it might have driven us to 24 vrito the IR a lot sooner.
25 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Let me ask you this.
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- 1 Let'o cocuma fer tho nionOnt that Mah00h Danck hoc thic cons 2 in 1994 when he tells you to rely on the RH3 valve. .How 3 aould that have been possible?
4 MR. O'GARA: I'm not sure. I couldn't answer 5 that.
6 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Is there anything that you -
7 ::an put yourself in his position if you were to look and I
8 say they were wrong and this is why you're wrong and we can -
9 still rely on the RH3?
10 MS. GELMAN: What about use_of the gothic 11 codes?
12 MR. O'GARA: Probably could have used or 13 considered using the gothic code, but to me it was a point 14 in time if you have information that indicates that it ,
15 would be a problem and that we couldn't credit RH3 that we 16 would have to address that issue.
17 And when we went through the evolution between 18 December and May 26th, we went through the evolution that 19 an RH3 was not considered as part of what mechanical 20 thought was the solution to this issue. So it's -- I mean 21 they were telling me we could credit RH3 based on --
22 without informing me that they knew they could credit RH3, 23 then I have some problems with that.
24 INVESTIGATOR. LOGAN: What point in time, as 25 best as you can recall was it determined that salem NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. O C ?0005 (202) 2344433
58 I 1 :ouldn't roly on RH3?
2 MR. O'GARA: From my standpoint it was probably 3 althin a week o four April 20th meeting.
4 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: So all the way up and 5 including that meeting, RH3 was a viable alternative to 6 <eep Salem within its design bass? ,
7 MR. O'GARA: It was a consideration, yes. But 8 like I said, we didn't have this piece of paper in front of
- 9 as to base that decision.
10 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: And up until that April 11 ,
meeting you had never met with Gita Ms. Narasimhan to 12 :liscuss her work on this subject. Is that correct?
13 MR. O'GARA: That's correct.
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Were you aware that she 15 aas back at the site?
16 MR. O'GARAt I probably didn't meet Gita until 17 at some point later with regard to this issue. I don't 18 recall when. It was probably in the August / September time 19 frame because after May 26th a lot of work really wasn't 20 dono on this issud until we starte' looking at the cales 21 and that's when additional questions arose that required us 22 to meet with engineering again.
23 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Okay. Let's go off the 24 record, please.
25 (Off the record.) <
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59 b
1 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Mr. Wsttorhchn, you .
. 2 1.ndicated there was one more matter that you wanted to 3 ::larif y?
4 MR. WETTERHAHN: ,
Yes, in clarification of a 5 question you asked.
6 Mr. O'Gara, I believe you testified that 7 approximately a week after the April'20th meeting, you 8 turned away from the RH3 system as a low temperature over 9 pressure protection feature. Why did you do that? Why did 10 fou turn away from its use?
11 MR. O'GARA: Based on my review of documents 12 submitted to the NRC as part of the auto c1caure interlock.
13 rech spec change and design change. I didn't feel we could 14 ::redit RH3 at that point. .
15 MR. WETTERHAHN: Credit it as being part of the 16 overpressure protection system?
17 MR. O'GARA: That's correct. Part of POPS.
18 MR. WETTERHAHN: Did you have any technical 19 reason at that time such as it wouldn't perform a function?
, 20 MR. O IGARA: No.
21 MR. UETTERHAHN: That's all I have.
22 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: In using the RH3, wouldn't 23- RH3 have had to have been a part of that system? Part of 24 the POPS system as approved by the .'2RC?
25 MR. O'GARA: Based on what I know now, at this NEAL R. GROSS ,
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1 point in tino I con en3 wor that qu3otion --
2 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Why don't you give me two 3 answers if there is a difference. Go ahead.
4 MR. O'GARA: What I know right now based on the 5 safety relief valve, tech spec bases, you could probably 6- make some arguments that the RH3 relier valve does provide 7 averpressure protection in addition to POPS, not considered 8 part of POPS, but it is available to provide overpressure -
9 protection. But at that point in time in the May-April 10 time frame, we were unaware of that. So yes, I felt RH3 11 :ouldn't be considered part of the POPS system.
12 MR. McDERMOTT: Ken, I can understand that 13 after reviewing the documents regarding the auto closure 14- interlock that it would lead you to conclude that RH3 would .
15 always be available at that -- below 350 pounds when you 16 put in shutdown coolin9, I'm sorry, below 350 degrees when 17 vou put in shutdown cooling, removal of the auto closure 18 interlock assures you that RH3 should be available to make 19 it the transit.
20 How does that relate to whether RH3 is part of 21 POPS?
22 MR. O'GARA: When I was doing the review of, I 23 guess the auto closure interlock submittals to the-NRC, we 24 were looking to determine whether or not we had discussed ,
25- the benefits of having RH3 available. And whether or not NEAL R GROSS COURT REPORTER $ AND TRANSCReERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENVE. N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON. O C 20005 (202) 2344433
1 they diccuoced RH3 providing en overproscuro protceticn 2 function when you were in low temperature overpressure 3 :onditions. !
4 MR. McDERMOTT Okay, whether that was refer (nced in the submittal.
5 6 MR. O'GARA Exactly.
7 MR. McDERMOTT: At that point then you
~
8 intermined that it was not in the POPS tech specs or other ;
9 $ocumentation related directly to POPS?
10 MR. O'GARAt That's correct.
11 MR. WETTERHAHN: Let's go off the record for a 12 minute.
13 (Off the record.)
14 INVESTIGATOR LOGANI Mr. O'Gara, is there ,
15 anything else that you'd like to talk about while you're 16 4ere today? Is there anything that has to do with the POPS 17 issue that we missed and you're going to enlighten us about 18 now?
19 What's that one magic question that I've 20 forgotten to ask fou and you've been sitting there dying to 21 tell me?
22 MR. O'GARA: I think we might have covered it 23 all.
24 INVESTIGATOR LOGAN: Got it all. There's 25 nothing else that we haven't asked and you'd like to talk NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE IS1 AND AVENUE. N W.
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62 l
1 to us cbout? !
2 MR. O'GARA No. I think we've captured it t 3 ell. We talked about Gita's conversation recently. We f i
4 talked about the review of the May calculation which wert [
P 5 things that have come up recently. We talked about the 6 safety relief valve tech spec bases and I think that's 7 pretty much it. ;
8 INVESTIGATOR LOGANt If you think of anytiling j 9 slong the vay you think we should be aware of concerning [
10 the POPS issue, please feel free to call us.
11 MR. O'GARA: I will.
i 12 INVE6TIGATOR LOGAN: Thank you for coming by.
- 13 (Whereupon, at 4:21 p.m., the interview was 14 concluded.)
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R.- GROSS ,
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CERTIFIC&T2 i i
This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear l
Regulatory commission in the matter oft i i
Name of Proceeding INTERVIEW OF KENNETH O'GARA Docket Number 195-013 '
Place of Proceeding: HANCOCKS BRIDGE, NJ .
l were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to i
typewriting by me or under the . direction of the court ,
t reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings. -
KAREN HANTMAN official Reporter Heal R. Gross and Co., Inc.
i NEAL R. GROSS ;
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBER $
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) F344433 WASHINGTON. O C,2000$ (202) 2344 433
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