ML20153B828
| ML20153B828 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 06/24/1985 |
| From: | Cook R NRC |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20151D196 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-87-583 NUDOCS 8805060090 | |
| Download: ML20153B828 (137) | |
Text
'?
1 STATE OF MICil1GAN h 2 IN Tile CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF HIDLAND 3 ......................_
I 4 ii '111E DOd CHEh1 CAL C0!! pat 1Y, )
! )
5 Plaintatt, )
l '
) Civ11 Action No.
6 l'
-vb- ) 83-002232-CE-D
)
7 I CONSUMERS POWER COMPAllY, )
! )
8 Detenuant. )
f
)
9 I
)
10 !
............._____.....)
11 The continuto ueposition of RONALD J. COOK, I taken purduant to tiotice or Taking Deposition between Counsel l 12 1 Ior ttle respective parties, uerore 1101116 M. Har r1raan, CP, RPR
! R-2090, c Notary Public withirs driu f or the County of Wayne, i 13 ! State at hichigan, et 100 Brown Street, Hidoletown, Pennsylvania, lon honcay, June 24, 1985, comraencing at about 9:00 o' clock in )
14 the forenoon. '
15 j APPEARA!1CUS: k 16 l CAROL H. RICE, ESU. .
! hirklano & Elliu g 17 200 East Rancolph Drive l
j Chicago, Illinois 60601 !
16 ; (312) 861-2000 Appearing on behalt of 19 l 4
, t 'IHE DOil CilEMICAL COMPAt1Y. !
l ?
20 f ELLE!; h. NEER1bG, ESQ. I 21 Barrib, Sott, Denn & Driker !
f 21st Floor - First Feceral Builoing l 22 1001 Woooweru Avenue f Detroit, 111 chigan 48226 !
23 (313) 965-9725
! Appearing on behalf of O i 24 8"05060090 880408 CONSUMLRS POWER CO!!PA!4Y. / i l
Lu:od Reporting Service , y,, ,,,,,9,,
swr, n m 962 1176 Swr, 231 Iktms. \tahigan M226 Farmington linth.11 < higan WoIM l _ _ _ - _ __ _
/
l 2 l i
I l 1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:
1 2 IlEIL JENSEll, ESQ.
CHARLES MULLINS, ESQ.
3 Nuclear Regulatory Comciission Wasnitigton, D.C. 20555 4 (202) 634-1493 Appearing on behall or the 5 NUCLSAR REGULATORY CON!!ISSIOh.
6 i 7 ! * *
- 0 9 '
10 l 11 W I T N E S S I N D E X i
12 l Witness: RONALD J. COOK 13 ;
Cr oss Exarwination by Mu. Neering...(Continuing).. 4 U 14 ! l l Redirect Examination by hs. Rice................ 87 15 ,
- Recross Ex4uination by !!
- 5. Neeri:19 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 4 )
16 l .
a l
17 I
! i 18 ! !
i: l 1 8 1 51 ! L X li I B 1 T, 1 N D E X l
1 20 l I Extilbit D-4745. . . . Cover letter cateu l-0-03 21 trantnitting investigative
- report.............................. 66 22 E
- ;hluit D-4746... 01 rice of Invcutigation repoIL !
23 concerning allegcc violation of Licensing board's April 30, 1982 j 24 "
Orocr............................... 70
"# 'f "
f.afayette Hu Idene 31filo %rthu estern lis; Su,,, ny; 462 1176 Suve :.'s Iktr<st, \tahigan 182.s Farminer<m flills. \inhigan I8018
3 1
1 Exnibit D-4747.... Supplemental report to Office or Investigation report cates of 2 7-11-83 through 8-8-83.............. 73 3 l Exhloit D-4748....heno froa E.A. Greher cated 8-1-80 l regarding Duties of a Resicent 4 ! InSpcCtor........................... 50 1
5 +
Exh10it D-47 49. . . .H6how ritten memo of R. Cook titled H1olano Site Resioent Inspector 6 Suumary............................. 59 7 Exhioit D-4750....Meco trom E. Greher to L. Cobb regarcing trip to Hidlano of 8 August 18th-22nu, 1980.............. 61 9 ,
Exnibit D-4752....Pages from hanowritten notebooks oi R. Cook.......................... 24 10 ; Exnibit D-4753....!!anowritten notes of R, Cook oated 11-7-76 through 11-31-80............ 48 g 11 !
Exhibit D-47 54. . . .llancW r itten noces of H. Cook dated l 12 7-24-70 through 2-17-79............. 3B f 13 l
14 ExhiDit fiRC-155. . .!!enor anuum anu Orcer dateo l 9-13-83............................ 121 15 l
16 . )
a e a j
[ '
17 ) * = *
( l 1U y i
19 i '
i Y
20 !
21 22
! f 23 24 ! i f.u:od Reportistg Sert ice :Milo %,rthraesteris llo .
infayrte Wildm, kre edn y g ,,,g Mir. .';o introit, \lichigan IR:2r> Fnemmet<m ilulls, \fre higan IS > A
4 l
1 j !!iodletown, Pennsylvania j l i 2 i Honoay, June 24, 1985 3 At Auout 9:00 a.m.
4 - - -
5 R0NALD J. C 0 0 K, 6 having boon previously called as a witnecc herein, having i
7 been previously culy sworn to tell the truth, the whole l
U !
truth anu nothing out the truth, was questionea further 9 anu testitieu et rollows:
10 ; CROSS EXAhll3ATIO!! (C011TitiU1!1G) 11 DY MS. 14LERIt!G :
12 'O Hr. Cook, nuw it's Consumer's turn to ask a few .
13 questionc -- continue ack1 rig a tew questions.
1 14 ;A Are you tolling sae I reaa the wrong part ot the I
15 ! ceposition?
I 16 O l'c 11xe to just clear up a Lew points t rota your l
i 17 . tectinuny when Dow wac asking you some,queetionu anu I
l '
18 ; then 1 have a row questionu regaruing tno cocuraents that i
, i 19 were recently turnou over to uu. -
i !
20 A Okay. j 21 Q 1r you'11 turn to Exhibit 14RC-7. I'ra cor ry I uon' t nave 22 escra copies here.
23 A OKay. libatever.
I 24 !O Ok&y. Ano caiu appearc to be a Januury 7th, 1981 letter I
i
I' "# An9In %rthuestern lit, lafayette (kidsng s,,ta ma 462.!!?6 s,,1, .,o lhumt. \ferhigan M22t> Farmingtm ljells, \fithican molk
5 I trom Victor Stello to Steve fowell regaruing the Q/A 2 Program or the UVAC. Can you brietly review this 3 document anu tell roc whose stop work orcer was it that 4 clucontinueo tne work on ilVAC at this point in time; was 5 l it Conculaerd ' or was it the Nuc'u?
6 A Tne NRC alc not write a stop work order on this. And --
? boy. Zack was running unoer contract to bechtel. So I l
i 0 woulo -- su I recall it, Bechtel actually wrote the stop 9 work order, but I traink it also got into since it'u 10 l Consumerb to Bechtel sayisig are we going to stop it or --
11 eitner one coulo have the power to stop the work, but l
t 12 f Luc !HtC Uid not write a stop work order on this j 13 porticular one that I recollect.
i 14 'Q Gkay. Anu 1 notice un the secono page unuer i
f 15 , olutribut. ion the acronyt.us LPDh. Ic that the local 16 public uocuncnt room?
I I
17 lA Yeb. , i 10 h jQ So tuas particular letter woulo have been on file at the i 1
19 j public accument rooa? j h 1 20 ;A I a b s ur.ie . It getu into a cistribution out ut either !
i i
21 l Wouniligton or the Region Orrice involvec und, you know, !
22 the 91rau nnve got those auureuccb anu they copy them 23 anu uh19 enes.. wherever they're suppoccu to 90. So, I'm i
24 asuuuing that tnic woulo uc the puclic accument room, i I
f I.erfayette limidane M410 %rthu rslern II" .
.sdale hits 962 11?6 .%mte 2.1 Ihemit. \lichrgan 18226 Farmington Ildts. \lorhitan 18014
. 6
?
I 1 but I cannot say that I ever went to the puulic uocument 2 roca to cee if tnis particular itea wac in there.
3 lQ 'Okay. Thiu particular uocument also reterences a Notice t
4 ( of Violution.
5 A In the action letter contiraing -- well, we state it was 6 in your stop work orcer in tne Hearing.
7 y Oxey.
l 0 4 A Or in the heating. In the neating, not !! earing. Okay.
9 O Anu the thiru paragrapn on the titut page mentione a 10 '
hotice of Violation?
11 A Let'b see. Thiru paragraph where?
12 Q On tne cirst page.
13 ,A Okay. Your recponse to tne Notice of Violation, a i
14 special progra:c. to ucteruine whether acuitional -- 1 15 l0 Okay. Anu as a result or that Notice or Violation j l i 16 ! waun't there, in fact, a tuarty-eight thousano collar i
17 f civil penalty hab assecuco?
\ ~
18 ,A Yes, there wac. j 4
19 O Anu wac that public Knowleuge? j l < :
20 'A ics. You know, wuen you bay wab it puulic knowleoge, we t 21 mace no secret about it, ano it goeb in tne puulic l
22 document room, it goes to the people that get the normal i
23 distriuution. I belicyc it was talkvo about in the >
24 ,
llca t i ngc . So crca thht I woulo say it's oclinitcly in !
l '
I' "# ' '" MtIn \orthu r tern flu ,
lxfyrtte Huuldune buste Mn 462 1E?6 b'uo u rc ;< o (ktroit, \lorhitan 18226 Farinuncton flulls, \luchaean 4Hm'M
. 7
. i 1 the public coraain so.neplace.
2 Q Okay.
3 A If I reueraber, I thinx there was even newspaper 4 articlec, but that was awn 11e back.
S 1
0 Turning to liRC-29, Exhiott NRC-29 Page N11660, it's i
b aucut tne lourtta page I oelieve. Dues this accument 7 ; also concern the worx stoppage on IIVAC7 8 A Let oc look at this uecause thiu may be a citterent work 9 stoppage; okay?
10 ,O Guay.
e 11 'A Tucre's outinitely a typo in hera. It canulo have coon j s
12 , Novecber 30th, 1982. I i
?
13 , O Right. I tnink we've talked about enut pteviccoly.
I
^
I 14 A Okuy. Tnis was a ultierent stop wctr,. I th1.;k that the !
?
15 previous one that wuc -- treat occurreu because 01 c. i 1
16 ( civil penalty pacAnge. Thebo two iteus are not exactly l i
17 l relatou, althouca ti there was probleau witt. the weluing l g
i '
i 10 ! and tne qualification or weloers anu qualirication ot
- i y
19 ) welulnc., proccoures back in the utop work that invoked a j 20 S L t41 r ty- t.19 h t tnoubunu collar civil penLity. Then 21 suusvguent to tout tnen tnere wab a stop worn that was 22 lupuseu by Consuuuta Power.
23 liow , there nau been coveral enangea that occurred 24 in th18 Euriou Ot t1MC 00 th1L otlier docKct or docuucr.t f
I" '
3ttilo %rthr<rwen llu Infayetw Haildant Starle hill ND?*$$?N bogstr , I fortruto.11orhtcan 18226 Farrnington llulls. \lochigan 1801':
l l i
. B l l l 1
1 that's written on wnatover tuiu nuuber is, 11660, that i 2 thic acdressed a uitferent 1suue.
3 Q Okay.
l 4 A Ano tnere was no -- I oon't believe there was any
\
5 entorcement cane out of this particular -- the November 6 30, 1982 issue.
7 Q Okay. Did this stop work orcer also receive attention i
b Itou the news meuic?
9 ,A Yes, it uiu. I just reneuber the news articles auout 10 It, but there was attention trow it.
11 Q Lo you recall anycnu 1 rom the cowuunity auking you about 12 tuis particular stop work order?
I 13 A Let me think. I very veguely rencaber talking to
! i 14 ~; soucLooy over tue tulepuuno about it anu at 1 -- I can't )
l 15 remember who it was but, now,
Dear in uino,
I think we !
l i
16 i were involveu in a Hearing, or there were these Hearing l l
17 l activitlec 90ing on at this time, there's wnere I'te 1 i
P +
16 '
bocewnat contuueu, because you talk to many uittecent 19 peopic anu this was an asuue. Okay? I 20 i Ano the gibt o1 the converactions went that, you 21 know, that tnis waL a Licensee toentifico problea and it 1 22 alon't necessarily retlect on the episuue that had ;
a 23 happenco c yeer prior to tn16.
24 0 Okay.
I "# "
- Isfaytu Ituurdene 3' 8 th \ "h " "'"" II" '
3,,, ,,3,9 962 1176 h iv 2.
lietrm t. \lahtertn 1822h Farminenm flulis, \lahican tholk
.. 9 l
1 lA It was in that context. Alt:.ost biraalur to the same 2 context ab wnat we' re uiscussing now, you know, that the 3 ; two were separate ano, you know, one was worthy ot a l
4 civil penalty anu the other Just was, you know, a 5 ;
pr oo16.: thet was ioentitieu.
6 'O Anu was tnlu prob 1cu with the welder certi11 cation anu 7 proceuure qualification ultirautely clearca up?
8 A Yes.
9 U Okay. 11 you coulu --
10 A In tact, you know, in all honesty, tne action that wad 11 taken on the weluer qualitication thing, there was a l
12 weakness that was loentitieu that sala, bey, tnere'b ?
t 13 been soucching wrong, we con't cere ao any raore welding 14 ,
until we aLeertain whethcr our proccourcs are going to i
10 ; oc aueguste to inolo up tne hVAC, whetner the proceoures, ;
lei it we hac uueu them, and they're not correct anu coulo 17 l cause a tculty wela to exist that, you Anow, we can g
[ i lu j ioentity -- we being the Licensee, can ioentity where a
19 eney're at ano take whatever restuual repdats might be l 20 neccounty anu, you know, put touetner a progrc:a to 21 cevelop 9ouu proccoures as bulluing BVAC., as gub11 tying 22 tne weluera un that procecure, because tout ultimately 2J cGil have a teuconubau guarantcu til s.t tile wc101ng tilat E
24 they uu Go tu control stc0 n i bitL iu quite uatib1ECtory 1.u:od Reporting Sert ire MU .
l.nfeyrtle Ibioldong ' II" 3,,,y, gy; Ob2 11 ? b ' i '"."% .rr
lbetruer, \forhigan Ut226 f0""I"t!"n II'II' \Ihi ""
E R"? 'l
. 10 i
1 anc aueguate Ior the strengtn requirements of the {
2 cesign.
3 lQ Coulo you turn to Uxhibit UhC-15?
1 4
HS. RICE: Ott the recora.
S ,
(Briet alscussion helu ott the recoro.)
6 '
MS. RICE: Go aneau. I'll tino it.
I 7 MS. NLEHItiG: It's Junc 'b2.
l 8 US. RICE: I know whien one you're reterring l 9 ,
to. It's in here soutplace.
10 lEYlis.t<Etuluu: .
11 ,O Anu th15 lb u taurao rrcu 1;orellus uno Spessuru to 1;cppler 12 cateu June 21, 1962 regaruing suggestou changes ror the 13 Hialanc pro 3ect. As I recall, you diun' t have any input i
14 j into uniu particular occument -- i i
15 jA Do you want -- j
}
- 16 lQ --
is that correct? -
I '
17 NA Do you want to clarify the woro any, bear in Linu, that l
}
10 taece are people tuct we work with anu so enere's ;
, i 19 !
converbations that go uack, you know, that go between j i
20 I theRegionOrriceenutnebucioent Inchector anc at's l
1 21 not like enat they're otr in Ca11tornia completely 22 oblivious to wnat's nappening. So trou the stanopoint 23 '
ot converbution, yes, chere was that input. But au far i 24 us autnorunip, no, I was not pcrt or the autnotsnip of t
Infayerre Iktdane I' " Min %rthurstern liv -
kite n30 962 1176 .suara ::o Iktnir, \fuhipn 18226 Farmintron lloll<, \lahien IHuiN
11 l
l 1 l this pa r ticular men.o.
2 Q You were aware that this raeuo web being written and --
3 A I probably was.
4 ;Q Ano you were anned ror your input wit.h regato to this?
5 lA i
Well, t.h a t rackee it counu rather tormal-anu sturty. You 6 know, tnere wat. a lot or craphaulu going on wit.h what wau 7 ; wrong at the lilulanu site, so, you know, the intoruat.lon O hac oeen maue availaole wnether you've ackeo for it, or i
9 wnether you happen to be in the Region discussing the 10 <
issucc, or whether the Region people are out at t.he site 11 discuusing the losucs. Anu if I recen.ber rignt, I tnink t 12 th a t. thiu caue atter the SAhP report o- one ot the SAhP 13 reports, you know, or -- let ue 3ust cncek on that.. j i
14 ! Becauue, aguira, l'u tullowing back in and I can't I
}
lb & remencer, you snow, which celsoue nuppenua ut what. time.
l 16 fi Hell, like, h e r e ' t, souc 01 the input.. It even cayL 4
{
i !
17 j couuunication with tne NHC Start attending a meeting in 3 8 ,
lti Washington, March 10th, 1902. I was at that meet.inyl ft l 19 h so, I know.
- 20 4 O Okay. ;
i 21 A But I was not. In thu authorship or tnis ucuo.
22 Q Oxay, i 23 lA Now, uo;.c 01 thet.e purubee, uno quotes, anc wtacever i
44 coulu hav e Doch extr act.ec t row Lout. or che li t.o r a t.u r e l l lofayrw Hwidene 3' A lo %rth u ntern llo
%,9 ,an 962 11Ib har L'*
l Introa. \tahigan m2y, Farmenetm llalls, \laturan hirl't
, 12 i !
i i that nou been generateo by tne In6pectors or wnich 1 !
2 would be part autnorship, or even wnvle, depenoing.
3 , Q On page tour ot this occuaent the pareyraph up at the I'
4 top purcyraph tour it stated that: "Mr. J. Coon tne i
5 Vice-Heuicent tor tue Region, ror une hauland site, is 6 ; an extreuely capable anu cynauic inciviuual, nowever, I
7 l theuc charactetistics in conjunction witn tne complexity 8 and icuenseneus of operation as set forth in three, 9 above, may actually ou contributing to come oi the 10 confLolon whien seems to exist." .
11 ; Diu you a'grec with -- 8 h
I h 12 A Let rac r eau cne t est or the paragraph. Dr. Coon )
l 13 cetiniteAy tu a oynauic incividuai, tnere's no ocubt t
14 about that. j lb jQ Do you agree with tne cnaracterization that he's an f
16 (' extremely capuule inoivioual?
17 , A I'd have to xnow exactly what context that was issueu in i e 10 ; anu 1 oun' t recall tnat. I i
19 'O GAay. Woulu you turn to Exhiuit NHL-20. Anu this i
.i a b.
20 g L'x h i bi t ic on NEC letter itou Janec Keppler to Jar eu i s
21 Cook usteo Deceuuct 30th, 1902 reguruing tne new i
22 conutruction coupAction plan. '
23 A Let ut write those dates cown nero Decause these timec !
24 ore getting uu, okay, Juut 60 i can bec what they are.
'"' I' ' "
I,n(nytte Buildung l'Al0 %'thn"I"" U" Sj,,, ,, pp 962 1176 Swt< ;.n Iktrm t. \tahigan M :t> I'ntmult!'m II'lls. \tahienn molM
. 13 1 Well, 1 huu to relate overythin9 to when I came nere, 2 you know, it was several years cack.
3 Q On page two, the secono to the last paragraph, indicates 4 that after Consumeru' subuittal the NRC will hold a I
5 meeting with Consumers in the Hidlano area which will be 6 open to tuc pub 11c. Do you recall thet meeting taking 7 piece?
6 ,
A Let ne think a cecono. Yeb.
9 Q Okay. I I
10 lA Tnat wuc there the NRC ouuo e precentation. And if the 11 l meeting -- At thiu is reterring -- tnere was a meeting ;
12 atter this that waL a puolic taeotiny wnere the NRC, . hat l'
13 was J. Harrison, ucce certain presentations or what wu
- i 14 l unoerstooo the agreenente of the CCP was, anu what they )t 15 [ were agreeing to, ac well us therc was presentations 16 l cnere troa Conuumurs anu Decutel. Anu ao I recall that '
1
! i 17 j Lueting was, bey, in the Spring or 1963. I think so. I
- 10 l'a accuming that enat ueeting was thet same meeting. j l ?
19 lQ Okay. Anu thau was the puoAic meeting?
{u 20 lA The one I was relerencing wac a puulic ueeting -- in l 21 fact, we nac other public meetingb to ciscuub certain, l t 22 you Know, inspection things thut cane in that period of 23 1983 to '84 or ratner regular nature.
I
- )
24 : y With re9aro to the ueeting citat uibcucueu tac CCp --
l l
lxfayrtte lholding
' I' ' " " ' Mtto %rths.estern llu.
%,te sto 962*l176 ka, 2:n (Wtrort. \tahigan 18226 Formunst<m flulls. \tahigan IMol't
. 14 1
1 A Right.
2 Q --
do you recall ir any Dow representatives were there --
3 01: tirut let ue aux you this:
' i I
4 1
Dio people launtify theuuolves with what group they 5 were a11111ateu, tor instance, the Intervenors or Lonc 6 Pine or City Council?
7 A Well, soue -- not everybocy in a raeeting icentities who i
8 : tney're with; so:nc peopic co. It cepenac on tneir 9 involvement in the meeting.
10 ,O Did anyone toentity thetascives as representing Dow?
11 A 140t tnat I car: rencaber, you know, which woulu not De 12 stranyu. I woulu accuue Dow woulu nave a representative s
( 5 13 there.
14 Q Dio t.nu NRC ultiuately approve this construction '
i
}
15 ! coupletion plan? l 4
16 lA We approveu a construction -- a construction coupletion
]
4 17 I plan. Now, trou the perloc 01 late 1982, when enere wab l l t 10 ,
regulatory uitticultiec at the site to the I1nal l i 19 :
proouct, there was so:ae changes or reasoneu ;
i t
20 perturuationL to the original propoual tnst wab taaue to ,
21 the like. But ultitaately we ulu approve, you Know, a CCP l 22 type program.
23 Q In your experience au un Inbpoctor tor the 14hc looking Y 24 ! at other plenta uesioco litolano, uia it appear tilat l
, t I# "
lofvette ihmdme
- R I \"'1h " "'"" II" 3,, ,, ,, m 962.//76 .wa, Jco introit. \lwhisan 4R226 f"'mmeton finlis. \lu hican 180.8 ,
, , . - - - -- r-,,-w ,- ,- - - . , . - - ,
I 15 1
i I
1 1 Consuuere nad note people within the y/A Departuent tnan 11 2 at, ror exuapie, Zimraer ?
3 A I have been known to raake the statement wnen I was 4 1 coking botn at Con ourae r b Fower ano 21mraer early on.
$ i Now, again, bear in raino, that those two plants were in 6 ; a very cynauic state at this particuAar point in 7 ilistory, and at one tilae I huo unde a stateuer.t that 1 0 '
wishou that the Q/A peopit. that were at Conauuers that 9 they coulu have an equaA stett at the Z1umer planc.
10 .
Now, that was very early. I was going to Zim!.ier, it nad ,
11 to be privr to my guing to lilulano, which woulo have 12 been scactise betore July of '78. Now, wnen I went to l 13 , Hiclano, I know tact they nou regulatory probleus at the 14 j Zicuer plant, that there was a statting up ut the O/A ;
i )
15 3 Departmencu uno to what level I cannot ruuke tilat j i
16 cunparisori uucause I con't know how raany people actually f
i 17 [ went to '41uler. I 3
lu i So to uske tnc colaparison was tiscre mot c, less or j f i i
19 equel nuuber, I cun't au tnat witnout looking at the 1 3
40 a nuuuers because 1 01un't get tnat intiractely involvea in i
j 21 the C/A organ 146tiont, or Zintact. For other planta unoer 22 con 6truction, Curibuners nau probably qutte a tew tuore 23 Q/A peopic available un ultu outing ttseir niatory, these !
4 24 troubled tas.cu ller e. Lut you albo nave to Deat in ulieu
" "# 4thirt %rth estern fin infayrere liwidone Sittle ft$!b NNA*$$?D bot t fr d.11 IWtraut. \l <hrgan 18226 Formonet<.n llolls. \lahigan twil';
16 l
i i
'l that Concuraers wou in, you know, regulatory diriacultieb j 2 with regato to tno constructing tne plant accoruing to 3 i tue license.
l 4 IQ Dio the ti.et that they tiuo a larger nuuuer ot 0/A people b
2 on the sit.e inuacute to you that they were cotauitted to i
6 solving tneir = reguiutory 011'tacultleh?
7 A lio, not really. These -- well, yeon, no, not really.
8 I
Just sheer nauses or numbers alu not necessarily nican ;
i J l
9 ; that a plant or a Utility is really interecteu in
' l i
10 .
solving (neir regulatory uitticultien. ]
i 11 hQ Dio they appear respouulve to those regulatory j 12 uitticultieu? )
13 A They appear eu t.o be reckonsivc, nowever, there was i
14 .l Occhersoue aupucts. It was back in Docenaaer oi *U2 tnat 15 l tney were in regulatory 01sticuAtted, tnere was a }
l .
16 l proposal at what we characterize es the Get Well i 17 Program, anu enen f ro:a the til.e or the Get Well Program 18 until it was actually approveu anu until people could j t
19 even start to uo work wch, I thought, quite an extenu2Ve i
20 !
d periou or tiue unu it aluo' caused o lot or consterndtion ,
21 in the regulatury ranks.
22 Q The Get Well Prograu wac the CCP?
23 A The CCP. f 24 jQ Okay.
k isfayette Rwidune I "? ' Min %rthu rstern lit < .
kute Mn 962 1II6 Nwir .Co Ibetrmt, \li<kups 482.'n Farrnuneton listis, \1v h eran 580ik
I'
, 17 1 A Anu there t. icy oc other Intpectors. In tact, at tne 2 original proposel at the CCP that ConsutaurL, to they had 3 presented it to the NitC, snould have got on with it 4 rather tnan w1Lhing to ciucuss at length som(: of the 5 ; provisionc ot it. Ano so tnere was a periou ot tiac 6 ; that there wau what I woulu call u lot or arguraunt going 7 ;
on over tne conottions ot the CCP beture tne peol.le, the C large v/A t,turt on ulte, could actually 90 uhuuu ano co 9 ! the work with the approveu proceuureb and progr(aan thht 10 were being cincuusou with the NRC.
11 Q Way was it thst tnere were such long uiscussions on the J
12 provisions ot the program? !
I 13 A That I do not know.
14 l One or the las]or uiscuauions wub over the location 1 b
15 l oi hole points. liow, why Consumers woulo want to i l !
16 ! utscuss the ho4u points tnst were originally placeo in j k !
17 i Ene prograu, which web uack in January, to the lengttib 0 E !
18 [ that tney discuuueu, 1 con't Know the russons r.or tnat.
I l
i 19 l 1, r.iyucir , t rom uy pt cupectiv e, coulu not see where the i 20 i Utility wac gaining anything, i 21 O I' ra bo t ry.
22 A LIAc I coy, in tact, the placing oi those ho40 points, 23 wnen tney were plaevu by the Inbpertlon Stati, we i 24 wonocreu now we were going to be able to cotr.mit the f.nfayette Haildung I ' .t4HIH %rt% rm rn flu hire hin 962 Il?b n w 2. !
(Winn t. Udigan 18220 Form metm lidls. Uu hsgan 1%ol%
. 18
}
l 1 assetu to zultill the Nhc saue or the ou11gation. In 2
s other worus, it was going to be very comanoing on that i
3 i Site Inupection Team to be able to progrebbiveAy review I
4 i
the work cono by the Q/A people anu Dy Conburacru anu 5 ;
bechtel anu to unbute that it there were any weaknesseu 6 that they were luontarleu, tnat they were culy accreased 7 duo incorporated to create improvewent in the next, it 6 you will, phases or next stups or the CCP. Anu so 1 !
9 always loor.ec at it that tne nolo points were a benefit j
10 >
to the Utility, they would have torceu the NRC into h
11 staying on top ot the project 66 opposeu to waiting g r i 12 until well down the line betore there were what you f f
13 raigh t cell ceL19 hated holu points ror us to go its unc l l
9 14 see how guou tne work is progrebuiny. Now, granted, we .
j 15 i;i hou purview to lood at anytning that we wasneu a8 tuings i I
i '
16 ( progresseu out 1 -- y ou k n ow , I have telt that 17 l cascusuiun, you know, tnat type or thin 9, tot aL long ub l
l i
18 , it was alscusseo, was not necetsarily in the ConsunterL' 1 l 4 19 ! Deut interest. )
20 l
0 Were you involvco in the ulucuutions? !
, r 21 A Yeb.
22 Q Diu you expreLG that view that tncy ucemeu ta be going 23 on longet then you thought necessary?
i 24 'A l'm sure that that cor. cent hcu been tauce to the Scction !
MJH10 %rthu rstern fin lafvette ikildune har ran 962 1176 h, . 20 IWtrat, \fahrzan M::b Farmineron listis, 11ahvan I%M
{
19 1 ,
Chiet or the fliulanc inspect 1un because, you know,.I wau 2 not alone in that httituuu, iceling. I aiun't write any 3 menos or anythirig to that ettect because we were in a 4 let's waten anu sco mooc.
5 )Q Une- tura.
I 6 iA cur concerns were it anything was to get cone it must 7 9et donc right.
j 8 Q During your prior testiraony you hou reterred to a 9 statistical st uu) that you neu cone ut Consuuers' 10 ; reaction to nonconturraance repor ts ano urate-ups. Do 11 you recieLoer co:apuring Consuuerb to other Ut111 Lies to 12 uetertaine wnetner they nau reacted more then other 13 Utilatics? Do you recall that tws cluotiy ?
l' 14 !A I recall that I coulu have discucsoo it in a couple of j j <
lb l oltreretic lights. Okay ? how, hre you tulking aoout !
16 j W1.cn we were cuserauling the outa tur tne SALP report or --
G 1 17 IQ ho. j
[ '
10 iA Okay. is i t. possiole lor we to look at what was going i s 19 ) on in that time to tino out which? I l <
20 iQ It's on page 202 of your priur t es t itao ny . l^
I 21 A 202 ot tnu tirst oay or --
22 Q Secono csy.
23 A 202 ot the secono cay. Okay.
24 hs. h1CL Tney're consecutively nuubercu.
l way,1 w,a '*"d"'"'""'" so wu ~"n ll..
%g, Mgp 9h? $$?b h t!! 2.
(ktroit. \lwhutan M2 t> Farrwerm flolls \tahigan molH
.- 20 i
1 A well, tnen that had to be on the first any because the 2 second ody Ltartco et 227.
1 3 i BY MS. NEERING:
t :
4 lQ Starting at --
S ,A Uait a seconu. 1 uon't have page 202. The lawyerc xept I
b j the govu stutt.
7 HS. NEEk1HG: Let's go ort the recoro.
i 8 (Britt oiscubsion helu otr the record.)
l 9
lbYHS. tiEERIWG 1
10 i0 Line tour on page 202. .
11 t A Let ne precece this a little just to rino out what we 12 we're talking about.
13 ,O Bure.
i l 14 lA Hell, chas uuuL uanc reterence to tne SALP. l'n going i i
15 to continue nere. i l
f I i
16 l Okcy. Ucw, this clu reter to the intormetion that j e :
17 f was being abhimilateu ter one ut tne SALP reports ano f f i lu auuresses itess or noncompliancL. Okay.
19 !Q Utriu a. ;
I 2U jA Ana their responueu to iteuc 01 noncomplianco.
21 Q Hy question lu: Du you Know wl. crc the statistical l 22 evaluation e41 stb?
23 A On. '
24 0 IG it incort.or uteu in the SALP't i
I' " '" M10 %'th es!!!" Hn-lafayne hidine
% ,rr o s 962 1176 Lac Lo Iktemt, \lahigan PC.% Farminenm lisits \lahtcan &m
r - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
21 1 ' A Yub. Tucte was woros in the SALP that -- at Acast one 2 ot the versions at the SALP that saio or -- I'll give 3 i you probably wrong ucabers but the approxiraute
}
4 !
chcracterleation. As I recall, ce;ay, of twenty-two i
5 itetas 01 noncoupliance Corisuuers Power hus yucstioneu 6 our iters of noncoup11ance twenty times, ano of the 7 >
twenty times that they guestioneu we agreeo witn theu l 0 , one or two truen. So, Dabeu on that type of 4 9 ; curonology, guve ALLue to the beatervents aoout it uein9 10 .
arguaentative. In otner woruL, it you have a Licencee i
11 tnat, you ,inow, cryues with a citation unu have a very !
i 12 high -- it you will, nigh Iate og secting, you know, or ls a
13 their point, of thera ceing able to point out that we i
14 were in error trou a regulatory baulu, then that says j l
15 , there's uceetning wrong with the inspection ettort, the j 16 t wurcing ut the reguiution or the inspectors' ability to
- l i
17 j/ write itema ut noncoray11c nce. l C
18 but II a Licensee reluteo large uuuueru 01 19 b noncoupilance, knich lu his preto9utive to ou so, anu 20 that wutn these are evaluateu oy people that are retaoved il tron the Inupuctors that tounu the iteus of 22 noncoupliance and the tinalng la still that the itect of 23 l noncoupliance wou a vaAlo ateu et noncoupliance, then I
24 tnut giveu rise to worot or bcing -- cn illusion of f
?
Lnfnene Ikoldent M" %th ""I'n ll" '
g,,, ,, p ; 462 1i?6 krto Ln iktrout. Whigan IR22n I4!'n'"E!on II'll'. Wh't"" Ik"I4
.. 22 i
i 1- i ueing arguuontative. :
2 Now, you Anow, winere this Ltatibtic ab, it w&L 3 generated ab all the SALP inrotatation is trou the casic i
I 4 -
occuuentc. In utner worcs, I'c yone into trie inspection S reports terrettuu out the nuuberb or noncompliances, the 6 responcoc, anu 80 tor th, nnu clu a qualitative nuuuer on 7 tt.a c .
6 Q Do you know wucre tnose notes are on that? i I
9 A Lawds, no. Tnat certainly 10 coAloquic1. 1 would 4 10 aucuuo that you guys woulu know uest where these noteo i 11 arc.
f, 12 0 1 oldn't see thtu in the aucurent tnat you turned over. {
l 13 ,A but unen wheL about on the occuuent.s that tiave been j i
t 14 i turnec uver with tcgaru to tne Heating anc the Freeucta l
15 l or intornaticn Act und all of 1.nat? Lu guyc got note l 1 16 listoruation that I got. bo it you can't rinL it, I '
g, i 17 [ con't Anow what, you toll ue. :
?
lu ,O Do you recall what Utilities you compared hiolano to?
19 ;A oxuy. Now, that intoruction, some et tnat was supporteo ,
t 20 -
cy the Region'u inloruction, tney generate SALPS, 5 ALP l
21 It.i.ottu troa other reccLord we naa in our cota bank in #
l 2'e tne heylon, suue coupericons 01 other UtJ11tleb. Okay. l t
23 Anu tnen irca, you Know, the othet Utilitiet then I '
24 heutu -- then I went to, uh, ueet, whv ulu 1 90 to?
t I " Milo %,rthu nwrn ilo Infayrtre ILnldme hire rito 962'EIIb hm 2;n Intrutt. \1ukien 4C.% Farmmeron lluth. \la h can t%iM
23 1
1 ! ifell,' 1 Know it wuc discuusou with come at the 2 Inbpectoru tndt were, you know, involveu with other l
3 !
Otilitleb that were in the proceus ut writing otner SALP 4 : reports in the Region.
i 5 !Q . S o --
i 6 ;A Now, dio I take ano compare with that ocyth or reading 7 all citations ano all numbers or teouttals witn every i'
8 Utility in the Ecgion; no, I uio not, i
9 Q Hy question act Do you recall walen Utilities that you 10 '
rnace the couperison witn?
i !
11 A I thinn one or then was Couraonwearch Ecison anu --
t 12 O Do you reccal any or the others? !
i 13 A Not right cir. But Couraonwohlth Eoison woulu huve ucen 14 a na tu r al one to couparc with.
l 15 !Q lihy's that? t i I 16 A lic11, they have a large nun.ber ot reactors. Sometimec ;
0 e b ':
17 they uraw s very hara regulstory line, you onow, kney l l
)
16 have the aullity to get close to the - to that r ane l-t i 19 ! line wnich ce11nes coup 11hnee ano noncoup11ance ano cu, l l I ,
20 us a net result, tucy're usually consloered dai., soLiewnat [
i 21 of a cnullenge to the Irispectoru in the area. Anu, yes, l
i 22 soue othcr plants nave cuen in what we clacstraeu at l
I 23 oltierent points in time ab having regulatory 24 [ oitticultics. Anc, un I saiu, they're local tnere. I f l
lAf' q)rtte Hurldung 3%Ill %rthurrinn flu l Suite Mtl YO2'S$?b % t, .'.'s (brIrm t, \fuchit0M IIC.% fQrmInClon l$6llt, \fithstan INII % ,
. 24
, I l
i 1 ! saia they have a large nurabor or plantu, comparatively I
2 speaking, c1 uitteront persona 11tieb and citreront 3 l plants. So, Couuonwealth Eulbon supp11et us with good 4
4 in c or dia ti o n. I ncpe you 00n't clucloso our secrotu to 5 them. l'u bure they alreauf know.
6 L l'u hancing you an Exn1Da t whicn indL Deen raarkeu as i
7 D-47b2.
I b !!S . NLEk114G Woulu you nark that, pAcabe?
l a
4 9 (Exnibit D-4752; Paseo trou nonowritten 10 notebooks 01 k. Cook.)
11 bY HS. 14EERING:
12 0 What I've cone here la -- l
. I 13 A Du, gosn. All r19nt. l f
14 ; O --
inciuceu in tnit, Exhault the package as I receivec i
15 it. I tt.ceived a nuncer 01 noteboons that Rcn Cook kept I
i 16 while ne wa:. et the Hiolano ulte. Anc rather than pull !
i 17 out the Inuividual payeb, I hope that I've xeet intact lu l the integrity or the aucu:aent au it was receiveu by sne. .
19 A Whatever. Okay. 1 just subr.iltteu it, you know what you
' ?
e 20 i guyu uo with it.
I i
21 hb. RICE: Ano 1 unuerbtonc. tnat thoce untos f
f 22 nLuueru ate what Cor.uuue r b Power has put on.
l 23 Hb. 1.L Lhl!!G : L.o r t e c t . 'i.ney were stuup.u as I i
44 tney Were r eeulvoc 11c.a lir. Jenden. bo, l's 4.couning 1.uud hponing Sun in , ,u ,,ku ,o m ,,
14nme kidine hoe em 962 11*b kar Xco '
iktrort, \luktan Rt22b Farmington fjells. \lahigan JRu,8
25 1 i that tisey're in the consucutive oroer that the pages 2 were written, but not nucucsurily.
3 Mit. J EN bel. : Orr the recoru.
4 , (lirlet uiscussion tietc ott tne recoro.)
5 -
MS. NEERING: Back on the record.
6 BY HS. NLERING:
7 0 Is th16 your hanowriting?
6 iA Oh, it certainly Id.
9 ,O Ano clo you keep these notes in trie regular course ci 10 ,
your dutled ut the !;10100u site?
11 A We novu no r equires.2ent to keep noteu ab Inc pect or s.
l 12 Alter un inspection report is written 1 could have !
9 13 tnrown thece away anu 1 wiuh I had. but, you know, the/
i 14 Juct hat,pened to be in t ale caulnots anc when I saoved 1b j t rota Maulano to nere, way, it was one or tnoue things i I
16 i that wtion 1 utipack I'll selectively pitch ano keep and j e
17 I what-huve-you. )
i 8 4
ld Now, tne thcL tndt an lins}.tctor woulo wtice notes t i 19 l to, you Know, Acup Lucre or thingt driu notes that 11e Law i j e !
20 ; in the plant, wtay , >au Know, that's -- y ou Know, that t l
21 woulu be eApecteu. liowever, you know, the NiiC uucun't 22 say I saust keep notes or anything. I could write them 23 on three-uy-rive ch rou anc throw tile cards avsy when I'm l t
24 done With tiaela 11 1 Lo uchiru. f 1
- f. u d ifepornng Srrrice y ,,, 9, ,,,,,y,,
l.nbyrare Italdine 5,v,, o p 962 11<~6 .%!r .Os ikt m.t. \lwhigan M226 f"'m'"d!"" II'Ih' 'I'ch ocan 18t tl k
. 26
~
\
I 1
l0 but you were taking the notus as you walkea through the 1'
2 planto?
3 A Not necessarily. So.au et theso notes coulu nave been 4 9enerateu in the ortice 46 1 who thinking uoout things 5 tc loon at; co:ae o1 tne notes could have ocen generated 6 ,
wn11e 1 won reviewing aucucunts unu it woulo trigget a 7 uroin cell that'a uay, huy, I noeu to check on tnat; it 6 coulu be nutes as I wolkeo arounc the site. It coulu be
=
l 9 ,
notes takun as I tnought et sometning uit ting in the 10 ,
easy chair, you know, reading the tunny paper anu thoso 11 things have happeneu anu uey, hey, su they're doing tnis 12 and I neou to check on that ano you make a little note ;
.s 13 to yourselt. So it's all or the nuove.
14 ,Q Okay. Coulu you turn to the page that's steraped t i 15 l 50010324?
i 16 lA 3247 ,
. l t
17 ,0 324. Anu untortunately on this page there is no uste. I l i 10 ; A So wnat? l
, i 19 l0 Well, I wanted y ou to put it in proper context, out a
j 20 l woulu you reau the titut enree 11nco to yourbelt or ,
21 actually reau it out-louu? !
22 A Out-louu. Oxay. j 23 Decenbec 1904 stuaa to Dow - Dow equips.ent --
it 24 uignt t.tuy incicattu ab obsolete. I'm not buru it that'c
I#
velo %rthu rstern lla l.afas ette 11alden
%te' Mn 462 1176 %vir Lu lHnut, \l><httan l't'2h Farmmenes Ilills, \la h ucan IMoS
, 27 i
i 1
tnu right woro or not without-looking at the original --
2 my originalu on it. Keeley, hoveLuer '80, tuel lohd i
3 unit two. I ueu start cate June '73. Anu knen I have a 4 l hyrog11pn which usyu -- ahu at ter that it woulu ce six b yearu anu L1x uonths. So that'u be -- oksy.
6 Q Do you recall why you wrote tnot,e tiutes? Ilayce it woulu 7 hele to loon a tow pages beture or itaueolately atter.
8
!A II these are seguentially nuacereo, the tawing or tniu
!' I 9 con ou pretty well occuceu by the tect I nave a tiarcn 21 ,
i 10 uute on Luc one page 000 it wuu cor related witu wnen i i :
11 they placeu the vesseAt.. !
12 Q Iu that 1978? l 2 <
13 A I woulu say Lo. but -- oh, l'u not sure. I'sa not surc l
6 14 What that oate meanc. You Know, tnct cate coulu have
' 4 15 ,
been Just cates tnat I came up with tor souc reason or t
{
Ifs other wrien I wuc curious when they placou the vessci or j i 17 starteu noving the steau generators. l h
[L i
lu ,O Tne page etter inoicoteu 3-22-78. Deen that help place
{ ,
I 19 h it tur you? 3, I 5 20 lA l'u inclined to uulit.ve thct I prouatsi) au Avoking in l
l 41 tnis pertou or arounu 14 arch ot 1978. So, at thLt period 22 ut came, now that I can think about it, tne Decutiber 23 1984 wouJo havt oeen Li.ying thut there wub o nueu to try x
24 i ano get cteca to Dow necauue the boiAur syu umL wouAu be l Inthytw Italdine M" %'*h ""'" II" y,,,y w 9 6 2 1 i ;'h k , Ln
$hrtrou t, \ lit'hig!to M]h> fM '* 'h ZI0 lI'l? \I N'K13 obi'I
2b
. t 1 , Uncracterigeu du being "obsolute". Now, now obsoletc it i
2 ! was, I uon't kinov. Obviously, it Dow wanted to have 3 ;
tnat type et capacity ut uteau anu thuy were naving i
4 troublec ircra the EFA, I think, or one or the other 5 Federal Agelicieu that wau unhappy with the cuittanth 6 coming trun their bv11er systeta, then that alone woulu 7 say that you nave to 00 thanyu to upgraue ene uv11er to 8 nic e t the current eruisblon stancorut. Anu 1 think that t
9 enat woulu prouauly oc the cnaractortctica -- the ,
10 characterization that term obsoletc woulu have hao in
[
(
11 this part.icular cru ano tin.e.
j l
12 Now, wily I wab putting thele udtch down, it's g i
13 obviouu that I was involved, had pickuc up home '
14 trit ercistion or was involvec tri 01Leudulons about when g
t i, 15 l tue Nhc ulytit expect tuel loauing ano, you xnow, that 16 type et locort.ction homewncro along tne line. I've got li k g clx yearu anu L1x uunthu inulcating that tnat wa:. how {
18 uuch uutu taue it woulu taKu to couplete tne plant anu l
19 ,
why -- you know, wnut the thou9nt proces6 web ,
2U LL1raulating thcLe, I'u not really sure sitting here.
21 Q Do you snow wnat tne June '73 referc to? Dot.c that tie
{
22 in with the six years b1x raontlic? l g
i 13 A Tnet tiet in with the oix years six uunti.L. June '73 44 >
woulu nove been auuut the clue tnot tnc elent sturteu P
IAtaytte Haddene V R on % O " "I'r" II
sa, w 962 1176 %,- L (krem t. \lahagen ig% Fenrunerce Hdh. \lo hican D LN
29 !
i 1 {. construction, but now that really waLn'c the timo the 2 plunt started conatruction, that wcu when enere was sosae 3 reguiutory procleau belore that cate. Anu Lo 1 guess 4 that th1L was convicereu o railestonc uarker Unte-wise.
5 l Okay? When you bulla a plant you du a lot ot excavation 6 and stutr like that and then tnere web early on some l
7 reguAutory altticuAttes they got ironeu out ena then in i
3 l '73 traen it appeareu that the probleus were Luen that we 9 woulu let the plant 90 tnrough a noruel priace of 10 construction. So, you know, the concrete starts getting 11 i poureu oia scheuule, ano the rebar shows up on tinc, anu 12 the papec anc puupu ano Lo torth 9et pauceo into what we ,
13 wvulu consicer tne norucA we9uence 02: a construction ut t
14 a reactor plant or more norual 1 guecu I woulu say. l
! ! t i
15 -,O llere you aware that Dow was negotiating with tne 1 i i 16 Environs.ntal Protection Agency re9 arcing their collers?
{
17 JA I knew tnut there nao cech converbutionc betwecia Dow l
- I 16 ano, I guess it wau enu EPA, but the real 91oc vi thoco l ,
1 19 converbottunL 1 uun' t resily xnow. Okay? I'm trying to l e l 20 tnins, you know, hcw uo I klicw some thin 9s. 11, inocco, 1 3'
21 the ibuue wa: over sucAcctuck eutsclons, then that was 22 Wnal one o1 thU ILULuc wau, 0110 1 tnatik Chit bOLeWhere 2.1 along tta Aine thut I nau been iniormeu, ycu AnoW, it 24 ucy have been out or tne pupct, it may bcvc been ny j l
(gayn, nous,e '* " " 0 N ' * ' " " ' # " ' " m o U th ~ r" Il-3 ,,,, e m 9b2.Iiib haa< : -
lhetrat. \ltrhigan M2.% fG'M'nt!" l$ill% \I"h'CG* O'
30 t
i 1 ; neighboru work ror Dow, you know, there's a whereabouts i 1
2 l sosae ot the thinga that go un at tne Dow plant is what l
3 l peopic were, ob scrae people were, aware wnut werit on at 4 the nucicar plant.
5 'O Wero you aware that at thiu titac, !! arch oi '78, 6 ; negotiations were going on Detween Dow ano Consuuers?
7 A hot explicitly. I may have been at the titue, cut, you i
6 know, I can't -- oy tiiic nao riot put ahy highlight or 9 '
signaticonce to tout.
10 Q Lo you rech11 giving any input regaroing scheuu11ng or .
I 11 the comeAetion of the plant at or about this point in t l
12 true?
l .
13 A Wc havu OLr Lorecust panel that comes out eno we tulk l I.
14 with our pro] cst peopic in Wuthington, the likH peuple, l lb becaute they have got to ucncoule their reviewing j
> s 16 [ procesbuo. Ano ou et perionic interveic you'11 rinc l y ,
17 1 wntre Inbpectors close to a prv]cct wilA 016 cuts Vitu !
1 10 )
Project Manoger at NHR, with vur torecaut peopic cnat 19 cune out at periouac interv41E, to tino out it the 20 i torecast is vallo, is the plant being built at the rate !
21 that tne abuett ut the llHC are being uccu to hopetully ,
22 ensure that all tne licensing 16sueb are taken care of i
d at the tiaa that the PAunt 1L rescy tu -- you know, ib !
24 .
conctructeu tu a point that it can 1ccu tuel, i I
- w. , ,,,, w ,,
"" d 8 'r a '" " ' 3""" = w ,u ,,,,,, m we ny; 9 6 2 . / / .* 6 g ,, ;'n I thttfeul. \ftchlttln $8..% fo rnienglorl l{slls, \$st h tgra va EM iiH
7 31 t
i 1 ! So, there were olecussions throughou- u3 2 involvement with Itaulano at uitterent tiraeb about 3 ebuluateu anu prc]ected scheuuling or construction and 4 cot pl etion. Whe tric a; I wab navit:9 thubo ulecuculotsu at b ! this pcrticulkr tamu, 1 oun'L xnow unichu the torecast i
6 ; pchel was getting reuoy tor a vibit or something such as 7 ; that. 1r that wsu the topic oi cincuhulun tu sone other i
U channels or the NRC, why then I been aware et it. I 1
9 con' t rceaA1 and I ocubt seriously it I ever hau any 10 discussionu with the EPA alrectly. Now, they rouy 11 receive inJutmation oy via otner channels or the hilH, 1
12 out I oon' t rueuAl ever having sny albouasions with the l
13 EPA, EPA lulxL. Tant' u not saying knat I olon't. Ano 14 11 you founo e telephone log where i guy said enat he i
1 15 talkco to Hon Cook, he probauly uso, but 1 cun't recAAA 16 that.
. E 17 You hau pentionec earlier an tue ueposition oocA in $
{Q 8
3 l
18 Januery that you ulu have soue input or you cid have i
{
+
19 i some converbutions witu the torceaut pa r.el regaruiny 1
i 20 1 schuuuling. (
j i 21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you recLAA wuether you nac schuuu11ng meeting; with 23 i Conhuuers or Bccatel prior to tac rotecast panci f 24 r ectri.gu or clo you 3ust 91vu your input at the trou ot ;
f.nigene Lidme H IH % rt h e
- r" II" gaa ry 962 11ib k ao ;.
- lartrmt, \tah:cen VC.4n Farmmeram firth. \lahsgan l**l 4
. 32
. 1 .
1 1 the ueetinga?
l 2 'A No, no, no. Well, you hao wore than onu visit trom the 3 1 torecast people. Boy, let ue enink.
t It seenb to me 4
that Tou Vanoel ano ne at one ciuc were sitting in the b conterence soon olucussing scheouling! I know that it b woulu be a coumon lusue. licw , when you say olu 1 call 7 spec 101 uvetanyu anu su lortn, wull --
6 O Or wcb at guut ousuu on your knowleuge h a o t' the truc 9 tnat the panel wuu tnere?
10 lA Well, port ut the knowluoge is Dubuu on the charts that 11 Bechtel wnb ger.ersting ter their proouction anu how nany 12 teet c1 conuurt or coule or whatever they were I
la installing, you know, thic inrormation was available l l
14 throuyhout tne site. Ano it I went to Consumers and j lb 1
! abhud Lneu wnut the progret.u was, why, they were always 3 I
! i 16 '
heppy to give it to uc, you Know, Lhc 10teht torecaSt. i l
17 j It wou written on a boato ouwn in the Bechtel's or 1ce, l I
1 IU At web written on a rsvaru un the Con 6uuera urtict;s.
1
)
l 1 lit ! talkcu to the people regularly that uru torecastin9 l l
t a 20 Gee wniz, I wonuer 11 1 can reueuber that guy's nome .
l 21 anyuure -- well, anyway, you know, uo to discuss with
, 22 the peopic thut chue to the bite, you know, what
, 23 wcneuuled unu extrapoAateu stueuulues ano progress are, j 24 tact wcu ovne in -- you Know, putting in yuutattuns j IAthyrne Hwidone Mim %nhuram flu e har ,, N 462' E IIh %or br IMrm t, \lah<en L't2:n Fawtum fl,Ils \l chiev Mk
33 i l
t 1 i u. arks, normal court.e ut businesu, you xnow.
I 2
The lihC is not reallt interestco in what the 3 progreus is ircra a regulatory stanopoint, but by the I-4 uc. nae tc6er., you Know, we nave to be prepctwu to have i
b regulatory rinulngs at certain, ir you will, maleatono 6 ubr4ers au wull ab 11 you were getting into an area tnat 7 1 know I'o be running unor t on -- on Inspector talent, 1
0 '
you know, to alert the tolks in tne Hegion that, hey, I 9 knew that their prograta woulo be intercated in certain 10 aupects or the Inspector involveu aay say, noy, when you i
11 9et to this point how uucut letting ue Know, give me a j t
12 little leco tirau, I'u on the roao a lot, give me a l 13 counce to uusu uy travui. So Lcheuulang was not c l t
14 ,
toreign tcpic at bil. !
j -
15 LQ Diu you ever think tnet schwuuleu were overly j i
16 optimahtic?
f l E :
17 iA At timeb.
I lb ,Q i
At wast point in tinc?
1 g
i 19 A Oh, well, 1 just don' t really recall. I just r eneraber l
s' 20 hoving knut attituue. At sone timeL I thougnt the i
! l 41 schedulet were overly optimistic.
22 Q WLs it crter 196u?
23 A Well --
! =
24 q0 Prior to 1980?
{
1
?
Isfyrtre ILoldine << h to %rth u rern Ib
%re sto O b 2 11 ih %u .%
lertmt. \hchican 48.'.% Formongton Ihlls, \behrean IN 0 't
34 1 A Well, 3ubt cAttin9 nere end ucyan9 Web it prior or arter 2 1960, I can't Drachet it tact way uecauhe l'o havu never 3 cataloyeu it in ny brains as that way, i
4 ,Q Do you reccal what the particular activity wou?
5 'A one or tnear attituces was on the ability to pull cable 6 that I telt that the pull uenvoule was a bit optir.ilstic 7 , at ono time, anu the reason that I felt that way is el uecause there nau ueen oitticulties that hud becu I
9 experienceu DeLore. Tne attituac vi the Colisuuerb was 10 that, hey, we solveu all tnoce ditticuAtach so, l
11 theretore, there'b notning more can go wrong. My 12 attitude wat, wull, nothing was supposeu to go wron9 13 wacn 1 touno thingt wrong; so, eneretore, my attituce j l
t 14 j wau you coulcn' t rxet your pull beneuule.
15 lQ Do you recall wticr4 tnoLe behedules were ouviseu? l i
10 {A Not Just batting tiere 1 can't. You know, it I tolo tau
, f, ;
17 i when they were uoout torty percent instotleo cAv travel I i i la that woulo De -- If, I recolluet catting nere, that was l
19 aDout the suaount et cable thst was instulieu at tue time 20 tnat 1 telt tout way. Say, torty or tirty percent, 1 i i 21 tnink. l l t
22 o otoy.
lt 23 A Attu in uy Lino 1 wouAo have never catuAogeo that it was l
24 ! DCluru 1980. I teuilue Laut Queen't laelp your Interests f !
34W %h '*"' II" IM%etre kid nr
,q ,,, a o 462.I1ib % n 2:n (hrt rot t, \ltthtttte pCb Intw nt!,* llIll% Un htan W
t 35 8
l -
l .
1 l any, but, you nnow, wu're looking at it on a short-turu '
2 bauls anu then, you know, 11 you'o huve contacted me in 3 , mio '60 kno auAeo ue wout I thought about the pull 4 scheuulcu or wnctuer, you know, scheoules were i
S optimistic, I probauly coulo have toio you then; but to ;
6 i say wnether at wau berore or atter, I oon't know.
7 C It you relt that the ocnedule wac overly optimistic, dio i 8 you relay tuot inscrmation to the cabe J.oad torecLot 9 panel?
10 A I have. They're looning tur intoruction trou every ,
l 11 source that they can get and 1 olu relay intoraction to j 8
12 them relating over-optiuluu, I telt, on Consuucts' or I l ,
14 buchtcl'b, whicnever the case wight be, hcheuuling ut 14 construction. Anu 1 aino 9cve theu tne renconu why 1 I i
Ib teat that way at the true. Okay. Anu, you know, pert I
3 16 -
ut it wcu paut hiutory; I reueouer that, I receuber i 17 f tnose oiscussiunn vaguely.
- t. ,
18 I reueuber the situation tnL; hau to ao with tne l
19 l luauing ut the cable trays, that as you rill up cable i ,
t' 20 f trays you tunc to put in -- wnen a cable tray -- let ne ,
c al retnr aec thec. When 9 caule tray 18 eupty you can put i
22 anu caule in ver) caully, when cne caule tray tu tull or 23 [ fwu tn1rce IAAA at'd uittacult to put lie that usuc one i
1 44 . us u.
, Lt;tod 16,~ortene Sert oce _ n p, y,,, w,,,, y,, .
O h 2. l l ~ b % or .',o e nemunerae 11,11., \takisan tw!s i
. 36
- , i 1 iQ Okay. Could you turn to page 320, the laut three 0191tn 2 or 3207 3 A Gkay.
4 Q Anu I'm iritercuteu in the secono paragraph, wulen is 5 looku like it's attributaule to T.V.
6 A Sure.
7 O Coulo you reau that? And ray question ic: Do ycu kilow i
6 what that sentence -- scheoule r easonabic and rankeable -- ;
i I 9 3 reters to? Anu perhaps --
10 -
A Where are you at nere?
11 Q lt's the seconc paru9taph.
f 12 A Seneoule reauonabic and uchecole. Yoan. l 1
1 13 0 Anu pernaps reviewing this page woulu help you in j t
t 14 ! answerir.9 r y questions. I want to know wt:0 is that j
?
t
)
lb statement attributeu to anu wnether you recall what they
, 16 were rulerting to. i
- . . 4 17 y I. Tuat stuteuelit was attributeu to Tou Vaitue4. Ariu tnlu i lo i'o uc t have been the ccneuuling necting enkt we are in 19 ; knen we'te on an inspecticn that I recollecteu ocing in ;
1 i
20 a saeeting with hiu. Now, the cc:nuent -- schedulu i
21 reasonsule ano makeaole -- that racy have oven Tou
. 22 Vanuel's anu it toy even be of opinion at snat 1
3 23 particultr tarec babeu un what wuc going on in Ltic serly !
24 '70.
lafayette Ibnidant M l't U th " * '* ll"
.%ae h3th 902'EiIb % w 2.
lartrott. %kitan 58.'.% fermaton Hell'. %'h'enn ik'GP
r.-
, 37 1 Q Regatuing the overall schacule ot-completion?
2 iA Well, okay. Let uc put that in the r19nt context.
3 It this to back in 1970, in the byring at '78, and 4 you' re preuteting that you woulo De -- ict's see, 5 loauing zuva in acte 1960. Oksy. Then we woulu say i
u ,
taat'u two unu a halt yesrb to complete the project.
7 Actually Tou Vanuel anu I olon' t teel that you were 8 ,
going to make tne liovember 1980 date. Oxay. Anu the 9 ,
reason was au because we've cealt enough with the 10 ; Utilities to know that they like to tnink 11 optaulutacally, we tnink we're pcssimistic, anc they f 12 always sceu to ue about cAx monthu celay. bell, t
13 , Suuuertiue as au gvou ab Wintertine anyway, so, inueeu, I l
14 j there woulu ce this type of conversation voing on $
i !
15 ! between two co-wor kerb. Okay? l l' 1 t
16 tiow , clu we have strong reason to retute that you j i '
L 17 p coulun't uaxe 6 proposeu Laue mencouAu wnatever tnat <
j r
lb wou? I uon't thins we aid at that particular point in j
- i 19 I l
ti ras . You know, it wasn't until things happeneo to the l ;
20 l Plant later, that we becaut aware or, that slowed the j 21 pro 9ress uown quite a bat. Anu this wcc 6 pe r t ou of 22 tine tnat tne soils 1Lhue wobn't even heatu ot, at you 23 walA, LL least not by the hiit anyway. So, you know, 24 that uw; luuveu have Uven iua Vanoel's attituuu. Anu I
- ' U'""' '
leform ik.idae 'I" "'h'*'"'I" saa nur 462 1176 .u u :. .
twrve, %kigae a:.x, t ermmem Ils!h. \la hite" m"!k
. 38
(
i 1 guess I woulu -- 18 t. Anletring -- let me yet my thoughts j 2 streight nerc.
I 3 ; I'm inclineu to celieve, knowing how I paraphrase 1
4 thin 90, that 'Icra Vunuel probauly naade a statement saying 5 that the ccheuule web reasonsble ano makeabic. At that 6 ; time 1 know that we clun't heew to have any problems --
7 uajor probleus with the seneuulo.
{
U HL. NLERIhG Next Exnibit nuu Deen markeu 9 D-47b4, 11 you'll nark that for lounti1'acation.
i 10 ; (Exn101t U-4754; H&nuwritten notes or 11 l R. Cook outuu 7-24-70 through 2-17-79.) !
12 DY Ub. NEERItiG 13 U Anu tuebe notes appear to be your hanowtitten notes tror i i 14 s July 24th, 197d through Fubruary 17, 1979. Ana they i 15 j appear to ro1Aow pretty cuen consceutively. 11 you'll ,
I lb i Just tske a mitiuto to review that. i
- i 17 iA Sure. Review all 01 theu? I'ta trieu or rcoutn, talu !
l l :
10 '
J u r. K . 1
! ?
19 'Q 1 just w ari t to know li you agtee witu uj l 2v enaracterigatlun at wnat the Extilbit appears to uc. 4 21 A Okay. I'll tell you exactly wnat they werc. At that i 22 particular time, occause we were eucarking on a new 23 Resloent P:v9tara, I uld keep a rather cetailed cally ,
24 109, uonettuec l've even notuo tne hours that certain
$A f4 } rtle [h tidene 4t h V) %#thk rstrin ll-
,%#fe hid Nb0*IIIb .%tt< /.Y' IHroar, W hige< a ,% Farm <nete Hallu % higan n :n
39 i
1 !
cvents may nevs happeneu, Juut, you know, olocxb ot tinac 2 anyway, you know. So, the luea was that the NRC telt 4
3 tnut we would navt to account tor our becavities on 4 ,
date. It wau a new eno nervouc prograu lor the NHC.
i 5 You know, you take a guy anu you sticx nit:. out there in 6 j tne uoonieu, you Know he's e pro;;eubional unic
' l 7 responblo.e onu all ot tnat, anu you e1Lo know that, you i
8 know, bef or e it wca over with uany to1 Au -- you'o be 9 vulnuraule trou many people wdnting to account lor you 10 '
tot cauically a tax dollar bucx. So --
t 6
11 0 During your prior testiuony we were naving a little bit !
i 12 or oitticulty pinpointing wnen particular eventu '
13 happencu anu you've uuccuentuu quite well in your notes t
14 ; wnen a lot ut cne ite:.iu that we were ulceuching earlier 15 g hhepeneu. ;
i 16 f[A GAay. I ackr.owledge triot, that we were ciucussing that 1
17
] onu I wuc having a noro titce yolag oack ten yeatu !
1B basicuAly unu riguring out who hao enc -- wnether they ,
[ ;
19 De kriting the SALPS unu ace,uing SALPS, some or my 3 j i .
l 20 uilostoncu, I hau a narc tirae cooroinating cateu. Anu j 21 you're r19nt. But 1 eAbc u1on't have tnid with we t 22 eAther.
23 Q Tnat's r19nt. Anu to quickly I just wanteu tv 90 8 24 throu va to ilta up Lone 01 thw i t e:.is th a t we we r e fA fQ) ff ?$ 14 4 iR$
5wy Q} 9h?'$$?h ,% h . ' , *
[Wt roit, \lic h'tGM Nb I"'* Eh* II'I! \ " 4 'E' 'l
, 40 i j I i 3
1 discuusing.
2 For instanse on puse 53/; lact three algits $37 --
3 A 537.
4 lQ c
Starting at uDout the time 1430 it inorcates thut:
S "Notificu that diecel roou 'taud mat' was pulling away 6 l troa verticio seismic one wc118. Examined eacn ut 7 diesel generator rooms."
B A You dun't want to L;ay Sure envuyh the taud uot pulleo i
9 j away greater tnan orie anu a taalt in suae arean lit the 10 ! two tocas towarus the east. Okay.
11 Q Dueu thru -- do Suu recall that that was the ti ut t i r.,e i
12 that you were nutatied ot the dies,el genesator ouAlaing? I 13 A Yes, yes.
14 0 Ok,ay. Turning to pcyc 570. At the buttor., or the page 15 : it tricicates CPCO tion difliculty with supplying by saall 1
[
lb j all into requesteu by Gcllaglier on diesel bullottig. ,
t 17 ou suu recall ws.y that tney were naving altticulty; l 3
r 1B web it because there were too iaany occuraents that he waL
, l l
19 l re9tecting? j l .
20 iA 1 -- let's Lee. bo I t. ave 41ttic Luterists wuere Lt:1u -- l i
21 suuetaueb 18.L1 leavu &n aLterabx in the center ano put a 22 claritier uuwn et the bottuu. At lea t I think I did. i 23 l'm rect uurc wnat tne u1111culty is. I 24 O Do y ou roca.1 tncre ever ocar.y u problet with tir,
- ' " ' I' " "
is,yrt, ILiu,4, * ^ 8" b"b '"- 16 g,,, np 4h2.)llb m .'. <
lHr r?.
v \tah: ten LC;% fe'* *C* II<II% \IO!' " lh " '
M
t 41 i
l 1 j Gallagher receiving whet ne had requesteo?
2 lA i
Well, the topic ot aclay hau come in there anu l's not 3 l sure what the bourceb or uciay were. I know titut there I
4 l web a topic or uelsy. I just can't -- I juut can't 5 retLil, you know, what the -- what the rull ba61s or i
t! '
6 t treat utatuuent really is.
7 0 okcy. Turning to page 575 --
6 A Going back to that other It there wdb 1arge nurauerb or ,
9 occuuents, at pertoalc interveic, it I was going to cue 10 Region 0 Lice, you know, I always -- most or the tilse, 11 ,
peopic un the site know that it I wec ucking a run to }
}
12 tne Rugion Orrice I was more than willing, it they were !
(
i 13 going to give suuut!41ng to the NBC that neeucu to get l
14 inito trae Region Ortice, that I woulu basically cutry it ;
i 15 ,
with me. Anu trict wasn' t, you xncw, out or the croinary j I
lb at copevour wab makinv a trig. to the He91on 01 Lice.
] :
17 ,V Du you recaA1 ever taking aucuuents ror Hr. Gallognct li i
16 trou the t.ite to nita?
i 19 fA No. I coulon't rememuer Just taking hiu directly -- l
} , !
20 well, let ne gust think a minute. Yes. I dio tcke f l 6
21 aucuments to Gallaghet on one taue.
22 Q Do you recall wnet Lney weru?
23 A No. Liut I r ouet:.uu t 91 v 1:e3 tnea tu nau in nas ottice in
.: 4 tue hegion. :
< l l Aft)rne lLddrag VMU sth u rste m II.<
N so tr b lt) ND?'$$?D .% ve kht lWtra t. \lorhigan $8h% fe mt e n gt<*1 llells, \fuch:gan IN elb i
7 4 ?.
f i
1 !Q Okay.
(
2 'A There uuy beve occn even other taucs that -- anu that 3 woulu not be, you know, out or the context or uving 4 buuanucu.
=5 Q Oxo) . ;
6 ,A In other worus, souctinch the InLpectorm woulo get back i
7 , to the Region anu they'u say, acy, I torgot to get a 8 i copy or uuch ano such a proceoure; ano I'll suy I'll be l ;
9 ! couing to the Region on sucn anu such & cay, it that'b :
10 ; okay. So Inbpcetors ao uony thingu bestues inspect.
11 Q Turning to psge 576, in the rarut paragthph tharu !
l 12 sentence it inulceted that you wcre getting on upcate on !
i i
IJ the investigative extorth Lor settlement of the alesci j
! i 14 Du11oing.
.I !,
15 iA Okay.
l 4
16 ,Q Docb that retreun your recollection that you were i 17 l receiving pericuac upuated t r as approximately ear 4y 1 :
Septeuuer to December et 1976 regeruing Consumerc' lb ;
19 ctrorts into the invest 19stivu or the ciebel generator . I
! L 20 I bulluing settleuent?
l 21 A Yet. We receiveu intormation quite resularly -- you j l :
22 know, exactly what trueu we receiveu or wnetever, you
, l 23 know, we receiveu inrormation tro. Consumers. I don't 1 I 24 tnink we ever chio that I olon't, oio 17 liel A , 1 guctu
( :
IAfs)ene ILuld,ne tis'ilo %n%um IL ka Mo 962 11ib n n ;. n i iktnut, \la ktean M 2.% Farmenene flills \fuken FM )
, 43 8l i
1 you asA the questionu.
2 Q Turning to pagu 597, there's a notation next to the 4
3 auterisk about hairway covn that on November 8the 1978 4 you attenuco a meeting with Don Hiller, CPCO anu Region i
5 111 Inbpectoru pertaining to construction schauule.
6 lA All right. Let ue -- okay.
7 O Sitting here toauy uo you recall why you were involvec 8 in the scheuuling meeting or uo any or your sloteu tor
') Novect,er 6th ino1cete?
10 A Wnen you say why unu characteri g e it like thst, the ;uct 11 t 16 I was a Recloent inkkector on the pisnt there ano su 12 having cs11y contact with the Licensee, even though I'u 13 : only been chose gust a icw n.onths then,1, o;; course,
, i 14 i hac been inspecting the plant betorc 1 even powhue 15 l physically locateu on Lite, tnut woulu be a natur61 ,
16 thing ror the peoplc ot the Rwgion Ottlev or any or tne -
17 other orrices or the NRC to either invite in or abk the Ib l opiniunu or the Resloent inspector. So, you Know, the 19 st.abon why I was there prouauly wab because I wah the 20 Rubicent. Now, was there any particular iniormation l
21 tuet thuy were interestra in trict I coulc supply at that 22 tirae ? I don't know.
2d Q Were you involveu in schecu1119 weetangc on c periodic 24 Dubab With Conbuuurb? I f I SAl4) rtl! $4050 *!
ina uci.. ann seruca m w,u,.,,, no 5"d' ^
- g g ,n , j j ,* b Swtr ,'.11
[Wtrsu t. \fakugen C Fermagt,m lisfl., \tahigan VuR a
, 44 1 A Okay. Maybe we're having a little ois3cinted 2 communication here. Consumers Power had scheouling 3 meetings that tuey hau by thencelves or scheouling 4 ; meetingL that I had in con] unction with their contractor S Decutel. Tuose neetin96 1 stayeu away from. Okay? I 6 01on' t evan want to be there because I could care -- in i
7 quotations, could care less about the scheduling. l 8 : That's something that the Utility, you know, haumers out I
9 with the people that are builuing the plent. Now, you 10 I know, Lo I woulu have no input as to trying to cictate l l l 11 < ut uudify or bay tnelt scheauling is wrong or that they 12 Lhould be putting cuphauic here, there or anywnere. l 5
13 Tnat's the type of stutt that the Utility ana the 1
14 ,
contraccol ciucuus in scheculing meetlugs. Those kinc -
15 or beetih90 I d1un't want any part or. 3 i j i
16 p' How, utter tne schedules haa been tormulated there j I 1 17 l' were interi4ces between me ano the Utility, there werc !
s 18 interfaces where we were intercuted in what the proposea j i
4
, 19 '
behedule was, again ab 1 explaineu carlier, so as we j l l r ;
20 know hcw to alloccce var assets ano so forth. j l
i !
l 21 Now, I'm not bcre which scncauling uecting yvu're i
1 22 ta1 King about, so I gue8u 1 Inserteu it to say tne type j i
2' I know. It tnat's compatible with the kinu you' re e 24 I talking cbout, that's rine.
l I
o
-f i
l
.u: d ReporIing Sereice , ,, 9, lafayette Build g ,,,, ,,
l Surre h y) 962 11I6 %irc 2b l Dermet. \fichuran 18226 Farminr*on Ilills. 11ahtaan IRn!H l
, 45
- i i
1 Q You've cAuritico that ab the type ut ucheduling meeting 2 that you, youruelt, were involveo in at the site.
3 Turning to page 607. At the bottom it indicates on 4 ) Nev er.ner 22 nu, 1978 you "Talkea to Gallagher about i
5 ; upcouing visit Deceauer 3rd-4th. Discusbeo the results 6 , ot meeting CPCO hac with Univeruity of Illinoin 7 consultants hovember 15th,197 8. "
8 A CKay.
i 9 'O Du you recall naving thet uiscuubion with tir. Ga11agner 10 about the consultanto uceting that took place?
i f
11 A Yes. l I hau cascussions with Gallagher about that g
6 12 meeting in Illinois. Now, woulo 1 recall exactly what l
t 13 we ta1xed about on this particular day about that
{
1 14 i particular meeting, no. Okuy? Gallagher was vcry i I
i '
15 :
knowledgeable in collo anu su, you know, ne woulo coue 1 1
16 [, in anc he'u coon in following the meetings with the j 17 I I e consultantu trom tne University or 11Ainoic anu we woulu j 5
)
16 ciucuso wnctever the intoruction tnat hc had, yvu know, j 19 l boue of it is in the context or sharing inrormation, l'u 9 -
20 also an engineer, not a coils engineer, but, you know, j s
21 tningu like loaut anc stresset ano strains anu i
22 supporting ability are convorbations that woulu be
[ 23 couawn between both or uu. !
I E
24 (C On pugu 660, it inuicutcb Acut centunce or tne page that '
lxfayerre Hwlding Mtin \orthu rnern lla i %'i re Mo 962 1176 .%c .0 IWtroit, \lahienn m226 Farrunut<m flills. \lahtuan m m 4 L. , ,_._
. 46 l 3 1 i 1 i on Feutuary 14th, 1979 you reviewcu the dratt of 2 GL11agher/Pnillips report on sectier..ent or diesel 3 bulloing anc generateo comments.
4 ,
A Okay.
5 O Do you know where the comments exist today?
6 i A H ot.c . 1 guebb I'll put at to you like this: I don't i
7 . even -- I don' t know whetner I retaineu the comwents or U not. You know, it was not unconLon lor -- to receive 9 inrormation and go through it, you know, it's an NRC --
10 of tentiraus an tiRC occuncnt has the carwarks or being an 4
11 Agency cocument, okay? So, you know, wnot wy coa 4ments 12 were, I naven't got tne r.oggiebt idea right now what the 13 the comments are. It you guys ain't got then, you can l
t 14 Oct good money I con't eitner. So, au 1er LL 1 know i lb ; they -- you copleo everything I've got. Anu so tar as I i 4
F i 16 L Xnow, the P.egion copicc everything they had. Now, the f I 17 S coauents could have been incorporated into the repott !
I i lb 1 that eney coulo have acknowleoged, they coulo have been j
19 1 written on anotnet piece of paper, or the cotton-pickin
{
k 20 ; thing could nave got trauneo. Ano there has been s i
21 rererence to any document 1 any have been scriouling I 22 noteu down the sloe or, I aon' t Know wnat nappeneo to 23 ; tnat stutt.
t 24 ( Do you recall anything glarin9l y wrong with tne report -
- 1. nod Reponing Sen io ,,,y,,,,,,,.,,,,,,,,,;
Igvette Huildine s,,jr, nm 962 1176 suoi, 2;o Iktroit. 11ahigan 18226 Farnnetm linIls. \la higan IWHh
e ,
47
'i l
1 !
i that you uight nave called them up anu saic, hey, I 2 don't tninr. that we have this?
3 A No. I uon't remember on that porticular report anything 4 glaringly wrong au I sit here now. But, you know, I may S have -- tnat'e not to say that there weren' t things that
]
l 6 rell into tuat context neither. 1 just -- I don't
! l l
7 remeucer it ueing a Aong ano fervent argument session j i
0 octween tne Resident inspector 01 Ulalanc ano the Region 9 . III tolke over an absue. So, you know --
A 10 'Q Anu this would have been the inLpection or-the !
's 11 investigation that tney conouctea in late Octooer ana ;
12 December of 1978 regaroing the olesel generator?
l 13 A Probaoly it wac tne -- the inspection report that hoo
?
l 14 Jerry Phillips' input into it, an investigation report. j
{
\ ;
- y
\
l 15 Woulo you take a look at Exhioit NRC-66 ano tell me '
f i 16 [ whether thib in the report that you nave revieweu? j f i 17 'A Let's see. It's -- the cate woulu n6ve been January or l a
n lo >
'76. It shculdn't have been tov big, because tnere Wab !
E 1
19 h a tutter one that came later. I'm guite sure that l l <
20 that's the report. I mean just because ut the l l
- n 21 coincidence or the cutes on it, not enat I have any 22 recollection or sitting in my houe reviewing thiu 22 particular report.
i 24 Q You saiu there was a tutter one that came later. Wasn't
.u d Reportirne Sen iu Infayette Hwidsne ,g g, 5 ,,,,,,,,,,,, ,fa S,,,, ,y, 962 1176 Noite Ln Detrort. \lichitan 18226 f"""i"d*" II'II' 'Ih'R"" '*I %
48 I
1 li 1
l this, in tact, the tinal report on the investigation or l 2 the olebel generator bulloing?
3 A Well, then maybe there was one that was earlier than 4 that enat wac much tatter. I vaguely remember an 5 investigation over tne diesel generscor issue being i
6 yulte voluuincuc and 1 -- you know, I may hhve 1
7 inaovertently saiu it was one that came atter that; it 8 might have been one that was betore that. but I 3uut 9 reweuuer that there was a rather large report over the 10 -
soils iLuues.
11 O Okay.
12 11 8 . hEURING: I think this is a goou time to I 4
13 take a broar. I i
l 14 (urlet recess token.)
n 15 h
!!L . 14EERINGs Back on the recuru. 2 I 4' h
16 7 Tnic next Exnibit nas been unrkeu D-4753. l t ,
17 f (Exnibit D-4753; llandwritten notec or ,
i 18 $ R. Cook cateu 11-7-76 through 11-31-U0.) '
19 ' bY 11S. NEERItlG:
20 IQ This Exn1Dit D-4753 appeurs to be yout hanowritten notec ,
21 octing trou approximately Noveuocr 7tu,1970 to October I
22 31st, 1980. Doesn't tnat look uoout rignt? l 23 A Yes. Tuede are u) noteo. i ,
l 24 Q Okay. II you'il turn to page 135, the laat three orgito E
i I' I' nio %rthuntern lla ,
lx(kyette Hitoldone l
5,;,,,, iao 962 1Ii6 Mie Lo (Wtroit. \luhican 18:20 Farmancton ll111.. \fu hican Inw;
49 i
- t -
I 1 are 135. Anu it appearb that on Oct.ober 10th,1979 you 2 were precent at a bcncoule raceting conuuctec Dy Don 3 Miller or Consumers.
4 Would you brictly review that page anu tell me S
l whether you remember why this particular meeting was 6 ;
scheduleo?
7 lA I uun' L nnow as there wub any real reacon way thin 8 ,
part Acular uueting wab helu, otner than to discuss what 9 <
the propose 6 schedules were going to be. 14ow, I don't l
10 recall the exact cates ot when the torecast panel was l
11 <
9etting involvec ano, II this was close to tnat cate, i
12 there may have ocen a need to have some of that l
?
6 13 intoruation, Duc 1 con't know the real reason other than 14 in the noruul cource 01 ooing work in tne NRC, you know, 15 ; dia,cuscing scheduled with tna Licensee is not 611 that l I 1 16 [ loreign.
t 17 Q It inuicetes: "Want to maintain coupletion Oy Nuvember l0 l f
lu -
1981 reAlance at Duw witn EPA on stack gas or 010 l l 19 I l boil ers. " l h
20 Web th18 retcrence to the ract that Dow was working l
21 with the EPA regarding their boilers and the tact that t 22 Consuraers was trying to uaintain a schucule in order 1
l 23 that the steau woulu ou prouuceu tu Dow at about the '
l
.t ;
24 >
salae tilau tuat their boilers woulu be termed obuolete? 8
' d Reporting Sett ice ,w,,\,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
1.nfaytte ILniding har Mn 96? Ii?6 %,w So l
I (Hroit. \lahican 18220 Farmineum linfis \lichrean Ints I
s - - - m
, 50 e
j
- I 1 iA I wouldn't want to resa that mucn information on that 2 statement.
l 3 lQ Why don' t you tell me what that reterence tu a6 best as 4 you recoA1.
5 A Well, what 1 -- we21, thut statement woulo have been i t.
6 l written where that Consumers wanted to maintain, you 7 know, get the plant done by Novemuer '81. Ano one or 4
l 8 tne reasons woulu have been to accowucocte the hDility '
I 9 >
to get steau to Dow in a timely rashion because there 10 , was, it you will, pe rhapb heut on Dow trou the EPA to i
11 get their boilers cleanca up. Ana, you know, I wouldn't i
12 want to teua in taere tnat there was negotiations going j i
( i 13 on or anything 11xe tnut. It wac jubt, you know, the i 14 statement being acce, hey, we'o like to be able to get I
i 15 l the plant coupletec at uuch anc such 6 date because .
i 16 that's when the Dow tolku sre going to be necoing uteno. l 17 50 0xay. Tuis next Exhibit hac ueen marked D-4748. l 18 (Exhioit D-4746; !{emo trom E.A. Greher b
- i I
19 ; dated 8-1-80 regarding Dutics of a j f a l 20 Res tcent Inspector. ) :
21 A You're conc witu this une? l 22 BY MS. NEER11.G a 1
23 Yes, I Q
l 24 0 Woulu you tuentity tniu exnibit?
l i 1
' I' "# '"
- l.afayette Building Mwl0 %rthurern th< .
l kute Mn 962 1176 ka, Lv ih troa. \bchigan 18226 Farrnsneton Ihlh. \lahutan 1% 8
51 1 A Well, it looks like it's a memo trou Elliott Greher to 2 the Rectuent Ortice pertaining to outien of a Resident 3 Inspector. He cays that it war. preparea at Cnairman 4 Ahearne's request ano aubmitted in July to the b i Ccumiscion for their comment, ano oiscusses expecting a 6 ! tinal verbion later on.
l 7 !Q Anu who was Elliott Greher?
4 i
8 'A OKay. E1110tt Grener was -- on, it says what ne was.
.i 9 !
Cooroinutor of the Resicent Inspector Prograu.
i 10 0 For Region III or ror une --
11 No. He wau out or Wachington. Anu at this point in lA 12 time the ihree Mile accioent -- Tnree P.ile Island i
13 accioent had occur red ano there was a speecing up, it j 14 ; you will, of trying to place Residents. Ano because ci lb l the uniqueneuu or it ano the ruct that our Agency hau 2
16 not rcully nac a lot or experience in placing Residents, 17 ano this createc a lot of potential proulcms witn the !
I 1 10 l ability or a Hesident to sell property, move, negotiate {
i 19 property, so Lorth anu so on, ano co he was a contact
" l 20 l person ror tne Heuluents, ir you will, in headyudrterL, l A
21 alt.ob t line an Ombuusman type guy. Ano tnen he nao a 22 syupathetic cor to be able to carry the -- you know, the 23 concerns, the drificulties, the interlacec ot the i' i 24 HeL10cnts tnat might De occurring in a comuunity that ;
1 1
I.nfayrw 1%Ident
'" I' "' # "
3*
- l" %'!h" tern llu s gy,, ny; 462 1176 Sww .'.n 1
l><troit. thchstan 1822n Formoneton lidh. \hrhigan 18ni's
1 52 i
l !
i i 1 ! would have, you know, the similar type -- or problems or 2 sicilar types that coulo be expectec ut other sites.
3 Anu he was e nuanc or communicating that an Lne hopes 1
4 that you would get soue relaci.
I S 'Q Dio you receive this uocument?
6 A I probably 010.
7 0 Dia you give any input into it? Do you recall hiu 8 writing to you ano asking tor your comments on the i 9 : outies ut a Resioent Inu pect or ?
i 10 !A Elliott Greher and I had conversations about that. Ana, 11 in tact, I was one or the Resicents that hau experienceu 12 t soae citticulties in being relocateu out or Chicago uno I
(
13 going to Miulano rrom a logisticu stunupoint unu the i
14 , impact tnat exactea on my tuully. In roct, my wife
\
It ! wrote two lettert to the CowNibslun, which you nay have
\
16 ; In your liles, you know, where we explcined some or the i !
17 problems that Residents can get into in an Agency that !
18 ; cocon' t have the lucrative means ot Loving inoiviauals !
i 19 tnat exiutL, you know, with regato to Lone other j
- , i 20 g coupantec. i 1 .
21 Ana so now it thet -- it that input is buried in i
22 the worda ot Gruher's memo nere, th e n t r o!.. that 23 stanupoint, you know, 1 probaciy diu. I cun' t recall !
i 24 g actually writing niu o altect memo to him baying, you :
Laod Reporting Sert ice , ,g , ,,,,y,,,
Infayette Hustdtne kite fdn 962 Elib kut, L:n I)etro:t, \forhigan Ut22f> Farmington Hdir. \fr< hican thoi8
i 53 l
1 { know, uo this, ao that; Dut there wau excnange ct 2 intornation between Gtcher ano 1. Anc I wentioneo these 3 otner Actteru that ua61cally adurebbed the tact that 4
perhaps even createa nas gou, tnat there wcb i
S l oitticulties in moving the Inspectorn, that there was a i
o i lot ut econvule loss that was involveu in tne ability to --
7 you know, in the ability to move ot19 nal'ly. 1 U lQ 1 note that on page 50009991 -- l 9 !A Okay. .
\
10 Q -- in the laLt paragrapn it incicatet: "Cutrently, .
r 11 approx 1uutely Lixty-s1A percent 01 each Heciuent 12 Inspector'b time ib spent inspecting, cocumenting 13 ,
inspectionu, ano preparing enforcenent actionu. Anotner j i
i 14 i twelve percent is spent in training activities ano in j i
L 15 : travel, priLarily to meetings in the Regional Orrice. l.
I 16 The remaining tirae au cevoted to telephone j 17 #1 conuunications with Imc Hegional ano Heauguarteru Statt; .,
18 .
evaluating Licensee pericroance; contacts with the .
h 19 F meola, local governuent anu pubile; anu vsrlous l
i '
(
20 : acuinictrativt outics. i t -
21 Diu you Icel that -- ict me reparute that.
I t
j 22 ' lou were the Rebident InLpector at Hiolanu alone l 23 trcw July '76 until apprvxiwetely July '837 24 A That's pronably right. Until -- well, until Bruce y i
i
? "# 3(RIO %rthurstern flu 1.nfayette Huddon_e 5,;ita mn 962 1176 .suir, zra Detroit. \luhigan IX22h Farrninat<,n tidl<. \lorhree 18014
54
- , 5 1 Burgess got there. Ano then we also tormed tne Midlano '
2 Inspection Team in the miocle of '82. So, anyway, I was 3 tne Reslocnt until Bruce Burgesu got there, and I guess 1
4 that may have been in '63. I Just don't really recall l
5 exactly wnen he snowea on-board.
6 Q Did you ever reguest tnat another Resident lnspector be 7 there to nelp you with your cuties?
U A I nau requestou that there be inspection help. Okay.
i 9 - Now -- anu I also hao requested that they bring in 10 another Resident, now that I think about it.
, I 11 Q At about what tine?
12 A Boy, at about the time that I was starting to get l I
13 overwhc1meu with tne worr. load tnat I was involveu in.
14 I suppoco that wab probably arouno tne time et tne Zack I 15 ,
investigation.
, i t i 16 f' Q Okay. Were your requesto ever granteo? 3
( . I 17 hA Hell, ultimately there wab another Reutuent Inupector f placeo there. Anu then again --
la
)
19 >Q In 1963? '
.4 <
20 A In 'U3, but then there was a tormation ot tne Midlano ;
1 21 Inspection Team that ceae in -- uoy, nere we go hgain. ;
i 22 Q Fall ot 'U2?
But i 23 A It Lay have been forueu -- ukay, Suwuct et '82.
14 f g tncn we caso hao u -- I huo Incyector help cone lu
?
l.afayette Haildone Wilo %rthu ntern llo Snae Mo 962 11?6 Soirt a 1 (Wirmt. \1wheran M220 Farminerm iluth, Uurhican Isnm
0 I
55 1 i lj 1 curing a U/A inspection, uno I think the oute on that j 2 report W6d arounu '81.
3 Q How uiu tuiu extra help nelp you out? In what way did 4 it alleviate your work loao?
i 5 iA . Hell --
6 Q Did it alleviate the work loaa?
7 A Dio it alleviate it? tio, it oio not. Because, tnere 8 ,
again, you have a plant tuat nas got a Act or inspection 9 accivitleb going on bo, you know, it wasn't that the 10 work loco was reducco, you still enoea up -- you know 11 i reauing my logs ano no lorth, you still noticeo we put li in lots or nours 01 work. Tau ract that tnough when you l t
13 have anotner incividual, it one inoivioual getu tied up, a
14 j say, in an investigation into HVAC ano you have another 1S ! inolvidual then, then they can tollow souc or the other ,
i (
16 '
iteias going on. Anu so it's just strictly trola that !
y -
i 17 stanopoint. l j 18 tiow , through the course or inspection eitorts tnere 5
19 l were vtucr peopic that oio coue to tne site at perlooic l < 1 20 g intervals una then 1 calo the uuvent o1 the 0/A Teau i
1 21 that went in that generatou the -- I think that was in 22 '81. Thun that was a 9000 snapunot picture to us. And 23 i tnen arter that, then 1 saio the rottation or the site i ,1 24 { inspection Tear.i thun Drought in tne talent.
l 1
lafyrtte H: ulding
I' * ' " # '
3ttiin %rtho< ester th<
Suite 100 962 1ii6 s,,,,,. ;G lietroit, 11vhtenn 1822t> Farmeneton Hilb, \lwheran IReilM
s 56 1
1 Now, later we also had some rent-a-inspection 2 people tnat came out from Acregon LaDoratorieu.
3 1 (Pho.Sp.) I may have torgot to mention that early l
4 i on in answer to thin type of question.
5 .
They -- well, they were on contract to the NhC. I 6 just can't renemuer how many inspeccion hours they put 7 j in, but the cio come out ano ao some neip.
I 8 Q Was that with the DGb invectigation?
9 A Yean. That was after that.
10 0 libat hinu ot people ccue to help you with that?
i 11 <A They were engineers or sorts. {
l i
12 Q Hechanical enginueru? )
I 13 A Well, there'u wechanical, electrical. !
i i
i 14 'Q Sttuctural engineerL? ,
I
- 4 lb ;A One guy was in noncescructive evaluation, bDE -- well, l i
16 f noncentructive evaluation.
s .
17 jQ Wau that structurally relateu? {
l .
16 It wouldn' t need to be. That would be quality o1 j lA i 19 I weloing. -
l <
20 Q Anu that was auct tot tne particular investigation? j 21 A No. The idea was is that's to accoumodate the l l
22 inspection ett'orte that were going to be needeo when the l
1 23 CCP was going to be enacteu upon. Ckay? At the time i 24 g that ectual inupection was going to go on under tne CCP t
1.nfaytte ikidant 3mlo %rthestern Ilia ,
kute (3) 962 11?b kne ::
/ ><trm t. \lahigan tR22t> Farmuneton llulls. \la higan 18oi8
' 57 1 progrma, he in the NRC knew that we didn't have the 2 ausetc to cover it all. Ano uo the luea was to write a 3 contract with people out ut Aeregon, have them give us 4 cone technical talent, yet them on-Dooro, see how good 5 they were, see what velue they coulc be to us and 6 hoperully use them in tnat inspection ettort.
I 7 Q Ana tney were, in tuct, hirea on?
8 !A Yes. We wrote a contract to Aeregon ano they were hired 9 on on a temporcry bac18. Anu they alon't move in, they 10 woulo cone over a week perloo anc go Dock tp Aeregon for 11 a week or they n.ignt stay tor two weeks anu go back to i
12 Aeteson ror a week. l i
13 0 Were they utill unuer contract when you lett the project 14 in the Sucuer ut '847 i 15 A I oon't recall, but I oon't think so. We were having j L 1 lb ( oitticultiec with people that we got ab inoivicuals out
]
- i 17 j at Aeregon. They old not pertoru as well as we hau l
8 j 18 l anticipatec. r B '
19 fQ Okay. CouAu you just snlu unis Exhibir ana tell nie f , i 20 wnether you tnink that it's an accurate characterization -
1 I 21 or your outies at the hiolano project?
i 22 HS. E1CE: Ott the record.
4 23 J
I (Briet alscusulon nelu off the recoro.)
24 A Okay. Huut wau your question now?
Milo %rtlourern ll>.
l.nly ette Huddonc kite M11 9h2 lI?h %or 2;n (betrort. \laharan 18:26 Farmington Ildh, \lichigan 1k014
[
. 56 1
l l 1 l BY HS. NEERIGG: j 2 Q Down it accur ately cescribe your outies as a Resident 3 Inspector tor the Mioland project? -
l 4 'A It's a generally worded meuo that sort or covers the 1
5 arcab ot respons1Dility that one woulo expect out of a 6 , Reuldent inspector. Bear in mind, that document also 7 adorenses Resioont Inupectors at an operating plant l
- I
' i 8 which live in a cirterent environtaunt than Resioent d l
9 '
Inspectors at a construction Lite or at a -- or a site l f
10 like inree Mile Islano, too. .
11 jQ Do you reel that it encoupadues the duties that you hao ,
12 as an Inspector at M1aland?
f 13 A 1 think the intent war. to wor c it generally so as it
(
14 , tnere was Louetning that the Inspector rouno that he
-l 15 l needeo to pursue c little bit further, why at alon't tie t
{
I 16 ! has nanuu. It was inrormation that wau being sent to f i 17 i the Coaulusionerb giving tne Comuissioners a thulaonal A j 18 ;. bketun in three pages or wnat an Inspector kina 01 coes i 1 19 J tot a living. Now, I woulon' t want to say tnat I tailed ;
I . i 20 : to rigorously achere to the coumentu nere, I woulon't i 1 -
P 21 also want to say that I felt obligated tnat if I wanted 22 to pertorm work unoer the auspices or protecting public ,
I 23 ! actuty, that 10 not coveruo here, that I woulo nolu !
24 bacK. Lo, it's -- like 1 ualu, it's a very nicui) i
"# M10 \orthu esurn Hn >
1.n(y ette Huolding s,rre ran 462 1176 Sate l.n Iktrmr. \l><huen n:2r> Farmineton lloll< \tahtee moiM
. 59 l;
1 worued general type meuo about wnat the ReLidents Are 2 doing tor a living.
3 Q The next Exhibit had been marked D-4749. Thib is also 4 trom your illes - your personal tileu, Mr. Cook.
S .
(Exhibit D-4749; Ucnuwritten meno 0 4 ot R. Coon titled Midland Site 7 ; Resident Inupcctor Comentary.)
6 DY HS. NEERING: I 9 Q Are these your hanowritten notes?
l 10 A Well, they certainly co. In ract, there's.prouaoly a 11 typewritten copy ot this somewhere. )
12 Q Do you reuenocr approximately when you wrote tnis? It l i
13 ,
rerers to -- {
[
14 'A Probabiy 1960. l'a boca there tot about two years or l 1
15 . so. l i :
16 [Q Okay. Do you recemuer why you wrote this particular ]
l . j 17 f uumo? Dic someone ack you to prepare a suuuary ot your !
18 ceriments baseu on your observations ano experiences over j 19 ! the peut twv yearu? l i !
20 lA 1 con't know as anybocy aukea ue to do that. In tact -- i 8
21 well, let rac reau this a 11ttic uit ucre.
22 Okay. Let's see, you aukea was I asseu to write 23 )
this. AG 1 recollect it, no; but citentimes I write .
24 things that I'm not necessarily achec to write.
Infyrate Hwldent . win %rthu estern lin
.wte Mn 962 1 iib Siso ra L-o (betrost. \lahrean m:2h Formoneton llulls. 11ahrean wl%
. 60 8
i 1 Q Do you recall who asKeu you to write it?
2 A I think I sent it to Dick Knop, who is my boso, I think.
3 Anyway, the intent was to get it into that letter was 4 here was eningu I'u been at the site for two years and 5 cescrioeo trom the experiences there, ano the intent wau 6 i to write to document that, to put it into the hopper ano i
7 boporully things woulo get improveo. And, inoeed, l
a : things dio get improveu trou that uec.o an I read through 9 l it. So I saiu comewhere in captivity there was a i
10 typewritten version on that. ,
11 f)Q Okay. On page tour you inuicated under section three 12 tact "Thc work load tor the Resident Inspector who has
]
13 acue the untortunate choice to become conscientiously 14 involved with the construction items at the plant are at j 15 l bcLt norrenuous, pcrticularly it continual 16 investigations are involved."
17 Is tuut what you were reterring to earlier what you l 10 indicated earlier tnat the work load wuu?
i 19 'A Yeu. You mean activities going on at a site and if the !
20 Resiuent Inspector goeu up ano stays abreast or thiu }
4 21 thing, then no become very, very knowledgeable ano he is -1 22 the noro ne knows, the more ne tecls he neeab to l;
23 ;
inspect. It's ain.ost like a Catch-22. Ana then while i f
24 he'u tollowing the laany projects then it an l
i lafayrtir Rusldme l' " # '/ R 'E i"# 55
'Pn m %>rt&ern Hu .
Suite Mo 962-l1?6 Suar 2;.1 Detroit. \lochupn 1822n Farmmeron HJh. \lahigan 18o14
61 I
i 1 investigation comes througn, like to put emphasis on 2 strictly the Zack company, then he is -- you know, it's 3 all be can ao to keep up witn the load as it is.
4 You know, ocar in uino, you've got tour thousanc 5 l Workere working at a plant putting it Lugether ano, you 6 know, tne poor lonely Inspector , ab 1 said. And the 7 i context wab --
well, you've alreacy enjoyco uvue or my 8 mannerisms of speech, that was being a bit racetious, 9 ,
you know; the unrortunate choice. In other words, that 10 was reticcting on you put a dynamic inalvioual in to do I
11 1 these things ano then, you Know, ne makes the choice to l i
12 get int 1Lately involvec with what's going on at the 13 plant unu thut acun to tne work 10a0 he's already got; i
14 wnereas it he cian't get too intiuately involveu ne 1
15 t wouldn' t have naa such a hor renuous work losa. But, j i
16 -
hoperully, you put on people that are hora chargers, uno !
l
- l t .
17 ; tnat was expidined in Mr. Greher's ueno that tucse were i c I
! )
18 [* the desirable people to have in the Resiaent Prograu. j 1
19 I t
HS. tiEERIDG: Tne next Exnioit has been markeo !
t y a ?
20 ' D-4750. i l 8 21 (Lxnibit D-4750; Heno trou E. Grcher to 22 L. Coub regarding trip to hiulunu 23 or Auguct 18th-22nu, 1980.)
t i
24 BY t1S. 1 EUR11 G : 8 lefaytte Hwidine 3%In %rthestern flu >
swre rays 962 1176 Swie2br Iktroa.11whigan ut:2t> Farmington lidh, \fwhigan 18ol's
62 1
1 1 g And coulu you identify this document which is also trom !
2 your tiles.
3 A This is f rom rwy tileu?
4 ,Q Um- hmu .
S !A I wondereu what happeneo to all oi this stutf.
6 ! Onay. It's a meuo trou Elliott Greher going to Len 7 ; Coub, anu both o1 those people are locateu in 8 Washington, uiscussing hid trip to Hidlano on August 9 10-22, 1980.
t 10 0 Who's Len Cobb?
t 11 ,A Well, Len Cobo was one o1 the flanager type people in l I
12 Wasnington. I don' t know what position he had at this l
(
i P 13 particular time. He was sort or a Manager in the l
1 14 aoministrative saco ci the house, ano I don' t know what '
i i i l lb j this title was then. i i
16 O Okay. On the secono page unocr item eight -- )
i 17 fA This au the one. Yeah. 1
?
i 18 '
O -- his bumraary or his oibcussion with you inoicatec 1
19 l that: "Very little contact with local government 'but 20 this iu unocrutancable since local government is Dow 21 Cnemical.' f 22 A Okay.
23 0 Is this bouetning that you unio?
24 A lt probauly au.
i.
I 't d N! Porting Sertice ,, , ,
Infayett* Huridung h wta M a 962 1176 sw,, ;;,,
Detroit. \fechigan m226 Formoneton Holl<. \inbrean was
. 63 1 lQ And wnat uia you nean by that it's unuerstancable that 2 there woulu ce very little contact with Dow?
3 A Okay. tiow , 1 clan't write thab so there are some other 4
miutakes in the memo that I talght point out or wnich he 5 ; anu 1 discucuco utter 1 got my copy or it.
i 6 Q All right. Is thlu a salutake; iteL eignt?
7 A I uon'L know au it really is, but I'll put it in the i
8 right context. Okay?
9 Q Ukay.
10 A When you look at the backgrounos et the peopic in ,
11 Hiulano, who were wnat we would call the City Fathers, i
12 okay, the Huyor anu his Council Hemuers and so torth, a l,
13 ,
large nuuuuru of tnece people were Dow Chemical l 14 copioyees. OAuy. how, they diso were very scientitic !
. I
( i 15 l anu engineering orientcu people as oppoueu to resicents l i
16 that touna themselves in egrarian societieu like Paylo, E t .
17 f loaho or Puylo, Iowa where the local government arc naue I i
i 18 .
up or people wno their cackgrounu historically au :
5 i E i 19 3 perhaps rarming. Tney know very little about the i a
- i 20 nuclear plunt ano eney contact tnc Resicent ano like to j f 21 have contacts trou the Hecicent to explain the blmpler
( 22 aspouts ot' how nuclear plancu operate, the satety 23 l tactors, how tiusioning occurb anc coue or tniu.
I 24 Well, when you have City Pathort froa a couuunity A
" 5" Lafayette Hwldme nus %rthn evern Hu Suite hus 962 11<~b bisar 61 Detrmt, \tahigan m226 Farmmerva linth, \luhigan wl's
I
. 64 I
1 -
slailut to M1alana, where you have a very high j 2 engineering anu applieu science intellect, then there 3 ;
really diu not seem to be a neec to explain the impact l
4 i
or the many things tnat are being -- that were being 5 , ciccuuseu in the local newupapers at the time. So that 6 was the giut of tnic --
i 7 ~Q So you' re saying --
8 A -- as 1 descricea at to Elliott Grener. [
9 ,O So your assumption wec that tney were knowleugeaule 10 because or the tact that they were engineers in terus of 11 Just the everyuay working or the nuclear plant? f i
12 A Yes. I'm buying that eney were knowleugeable people in i I
13 the fielou of engineering and applieu sciences that i 14 applieo to the cunversations, oiscussionu ano issues l
15 l pertaining to the nuclear plant. Whereau, like i saic, I 1
16 ! my clucuculonu with my utner counterparts, they rounc l d -
i 17 thecLelveu in environnents that were not neavily j i a 16 engineering ano applico science oriented, anu they rounu j
?
19 that there was a cerinate necu tor chee to nave more s l
i '
20 regular contact with the City Fathers ano the community l '
i 21 cnan what I was experiencing in the town or hadland, f f
i 22 Midionu is very -- has a very high intc11ect, you 4 l'
23 know, u lurge number et tne people ere scientists, !
24 l engineers anu su torth. Sc 1 uidn't nave to explain the l.n(ny ette lholdont Itfilo %rthu estern ll.-
siga ny; 962 11<~6 hw t. :.n IMroot. \lechigan yt220 Farwnst<m ljells, \l>< h rgan Ikois
. 65 1 impact or riosioning processes, I alon' t have to explain 2 saterial traceability ano these things.
3 Q What about with regard to issues that hao arisen, for 4 example, the olesel generator builuing settlement or the S HVAC problem with Zack; diu it seau aonoruul ao comparea l
6 to your counterparts that you ulun't have much contact I
7 ,
with the locui government when those issues arose? Were 8 you also roterring to that?
9 lA Yes. But when these issucc arose, there was a lot or i
10 capnasis on it, there wau publicity. The -- there '
~
I 11 again, the local officialc would know the vocabulary 12 used in the paper. Okay. So, ac open et the issues 13 ,
were at Midlano, 1 guess I relt tnut I really didn't 14 ; neea to have -- you know, call a meeting with the City l i
i 15 j Fathers. Anu also oesed -- my attitude was also bibsed j i
10 l because, you know, at periouic intervcis you wouac see j 4
17 l members et tue City Council or the members -- 1 mean, !
Iu i i
18 tne Huyor. Anu you f elt au long as he web reasonably ;
19 l conversant as to what the worou were in the paper, then, i #
20 ; you know, that Juut maue you teel that you cion't have a j 21 neec to ecucate tne City rathers, it you will. tiot that 22 the lusueu were oiscuaceu with the Mayor but, you know, 23 he woulu ce reaaing about it in the paper and all of ,
i '
24 c tnis. So, we ulcn't 01ccuac thinga that weren't in the Isfayerre lkiding
I' '"# nin %rthu rstern llu.
butte Mn 962'll?6 Soi,1, 2:1 lbrtrmt. \tahrgan IR::r> Farminaron litIls, \lahnten IkW:
I 66 I public donacin, obviously.
2 MS. NEERlHG: The next Exhibit ic marked 3 D-4745.
4 I (Exhibit D-4745; Cover letter dateo 5 1-18-83 transaitting investigative 6 report.)
7 'BY HS. NEERING:
8 ,Q This appears to be a letter transmitting an i
9 i investigative report that was -- that is dated January 10 ; 18tn, 1983. And I notice on page two that you receiveu g t
11 a copy or it.
12 A It it says I receivec a copy. f 13 ,Q Unuer distribution, thiru one down, it lists McLicent i
i i
14 l Ins pe ctor , Region III. Does that mean you?
15 fA Well, anyway, I probably cio receive a copy ot it. !
16 Q Do you recall receiving a copy or this particular I 17 i accument? ;
i.
16 rA I recall having this in my possession.
I l
r 19 !Q Okay. Can you identify whet chio investigation coverea?
20 IA !
Let me think. 1 21 Q Or wust the purpoue or the investigation is?
(
22 A Tt:1s portainuo to a meetiny that I hao been to in 23
- Waunington -- oh, let ue think.
1 24 0 Perhaps ir you'll ref er to page 230 it taignt help. 2 Isfayette Hwidune M' %*lh "'" II" '
.s,,,,, ,an 9 f,2. l l 6 Srair 2.n Ikarors. \lichigan 8822*> Farmington lisih. \lichiean Imn
. l
. 67 1 A Well, okay. I'll look at it. It hau to ao with setting i 2 up the instrumentation ror monitoring or the auxiliry 3 builuing, the structures that were being -- tnat were 4 going to be excavateo unoer.
S Q Okay.
l 6 A Boy.
7 y Anu clu this investigation cover wnat were deteruined as --
8 what had oeen uetetuiinco as uisleaulny intoruution I
9 ; proviaed to tne NRC on March 10th ano 12th, 19827 s
10 A You caid uic it cover?
11 'O Did this investigations was tnat the purpose of the l 12 investigation? i l
13 A Yes. l I
14 ;Q Who is C.fl. iieil ? l i
15 A He was one ot tne Investigatoto out or the Regional III j I !*
16 Orlice; ChucA liell .
P 1 17 Okay. Wah ne part or the itG Oirice or was he part or 1 lQ i 1 16 l NRR? j I !
19 j lA Well, he was catterent or that group is citierent, l
20 0 110w so; wnat group lb it?
21 A He was with the investigating group. Anu so at this 22 time -- let ne see what he calleu h16 title, Deceuse 23 there were changeu that were nace. I want to scy that 24 he wwu with a group calleu 01, which wsu Orlice or j o 4 Infyrtre Huildang Miln %rthuestern flu suar nso 962 1176 Su ar 2.:o IMrna. \lwhigan M226 Formonerm llulls. \lahie,n 480)4
, 68 i
1 f Investigation, wnich they woulo go in ano it there was 2 personal interaction with regaro to a Licensee that they 3 ! were expertised in interviewing ano interrogating folks 4 anu so that they would hancie that type of an aspect if 5 we suspectec a Licensee of uoing, you know, wrongly.
6 Most or it was in the form of sacerial talse statements 7 or misleacing inrormation such as that. Rarely -- or, i
8 you know, it it was something where the recordc were 9 : being oistorteu or oestroyea, this type or aspect as 10 l oppoueo to the aspects that the normal Inspectors got 11 Anto where there -- the oiscrepancies by normal 12 Inupectors are quite cut and cry anc involve the -- more 13 of the engineering anu the accountability aspects or the !
14 ( lacility.
i 15 Q Do you know wno requestco that this investigation take ;
1
' i 16 place?
j
! 1 17 ;A Ho, I uon't. I i
lu 'Q Do you know it it was souvone trom the NRC7 I i
, 19 jA I think it whu Keppler.
I '
! 20 !Q Oxny. As part or this inveutigation, cic they -- 010 s,
21 the Ortice ut Invect19ation attempt to interview j i
i 22 everyone that was involveu in enis particular issue?
i i 23 A Well, I think that they uto. Now, you know, when they l
l
'4 '
go into inveuttgation they oo it all by theusclvet. We l
i
$12(a)elle Healdung 3%lli \orthu rstern lln ,
,%,re Moi 462 11?6 Sure 2.n I trout, 11tchigan tR22t> larminer Ilills, \tachtsan 13' :n
. 69
- ?
s I
1 !
]Lat - you Know, in ract, I was one of the contactecs, l
2 I suspect, in here. So, you know, I guess I'll say that 3 I think that they atterapt to contact everyucoy that they 4 teci they noeu to contact. Now, wnether they do or b don' t, 11ke I said, when they're in an investigation ano 6 there's thiu dssuaec wronguoing, we ]ubt back ort ano 7 let uncu oc tneir uning. I mean, make out tac 1Altieu O available to theu anc viter them cecretariel help ano 9 logistic support, tell tueu wnere people utgnt be 10 located on site anc that sorc ot thing.
11 Q Do you recall whose statement it was tnat cauned the ,
12 problera in the tirst place, that causeu thie 13 invchtigation to take place? l t
14 A It shoulo De in tnat report, but I recall it had to do l
- i lb l with Ln Al Docu who workuu ror Bechtel.
N t 16 [Q Anu whht was the concluulon or thic investigLtion? 5 i -
l 17 kA l'n not sure. I know toot wt; wro u consuueru u l E li 18 ( haro-noseu letter -- I think this is the one. Let me
> 1 f 1 19 ! look at this lecter here.
l l .
1 20 lQ CAay. i i
21 A 1 guess this was tne rebuit or tnat inspection -- cr 22 that investigation wau this letter to Couburacru.
23 Q Nere they cbic to uctermine whether, in tact, n.a ter ial l 24 talue stateuentb nau been lauue? j l.cfaytte flutiding M IO %,rrhurst<tn th htl rte bia U N E ' I I *~ b % "' d~"
lbr17 tut, \$tt'hrgan $2lh fornlIngtt A $$tlls, \{tt hig0n VHlh
70 I
I 1 lA 1 think we state in the Actter that we conclusive --
2 wnile the investigation ralleu to provioe conclusive 3 errorts that tne material talse statement was maae with 4 i r es pect to the status or the uncorpinning i
1 5 instrumentation. So, I guess that that was their 6 _ conclusion here.
7 ; HS. HLERING: Okay. Next Exhibit is D-4746.
\
8 (ExhiDit D-4746; Oitice or 16.vestigation 9 , report concerning allegea violation or l t
10 , Licensing Boaro's April 30,.1982 Ordor.) l i
11 DY MS. NEERING:
12 y can you laentify that occument? l I
13 A No. l 3
14 Well, let me see it I can nelp you out.
lQ l l
15 lA Okay.
l 16 It appearu to be a copy or the ottice or Investigation's 3 gQ .
i 17 report concerning alleged violation or Licensing boaru's ,
18 April 30th,1982 Orcer. ;
l 19 iA Okay. l
- )
20 C Ano tnis package apparentry encompashcb the report witn j i
21 attaenments. l l 22 A 0xay.
s 23 Q With a letter trom Nuthone Wright to the Aumaniuttative
- 24 f Juugo, dated July 1st, 1983.
i l
.u: d Reporting Sen ice 3,g p, y ,,g,,,,,,,, y, lAlkyrtte Haulding
$wre ny; 962 1l76 Swte d.= >
lhetroot. 11ahigan 182 6 Farmonete flulls. \fuhwan wu,
. 71 1 A Oxay.
2 Q Do you recall receiving a copy ot this document?
3 A No. I really con' t remember receiving a copy ot this 4 , occuuent. However, you may nave t'ounu it in my files.
l 5 ; Oxey. I con't remember receiving thiu cocument.
6 !G Okay. You' re tamiliar with the alleged violation 01 the i
i 7 April 30tn, 19d2 Orcer?
l' 8 ,A Ucil, ut the time I was reasonaoly Lamillcr witn what 9 transpirec.
i 10 iQ Were you involveu at all in that alspute?
. b I
11 ;A ch, well, Lhe aispute came over digging underneath a 12 cocp Q uuct bank it I reuember right. Anu I believe it I, l
13 ,
wab Doctor Roso Lancanan brougnt that to the attention 9
14 ! of a potuntial violation or tne Board Order. But, l l
15 l again, I was not oolivious to the tact that thure was j 4
16 this event haa happeneo una we had -- you know, I was un j i l 17 [ the Hearing btanu. Tnat's why cniu wer.t to the ASLL, s
- ?
6 i
18 l web because the Ucaring was in procecu at tuit: time. j
! i 19 ] And uo thlu was a uocument anc we were obligatec to give l
! . I 20 tne ASLu anything that coulo incluence any of their ;
i 21 ausues et any issuou berore toe Bearing. I was on the
- 22 stano, I remember uiscuscing th1L on the sLcno. I 23 looxuo at the crawingc. I've looseu in the auct bank. !
t 24 What I reucuber now? Uny -- 5 idaylie IL,otdine
'' I' '""' ' " S'4 to %'th u r*'n ll
,%ggy, pgy; 9 h ? - l l s* b .% s te 2, 6
[Jeltvel, \{t'higGM L'l))!) IC'InInt!'l ll'II'* \IH blEG 5 OE
i d'
. 72
- i. li 1 !O D10 he notiry Sou at the time tnat he thou9 tit it wau a j 2 potential violation?
3 A Dic who; Ross?
i 4 Q Diu Ruso Lanucuan?
5 'A 1 can't even traink ot wnen the violation was.
6 0 It you'll turn to the autamcly.
7 A on. April 30th. Okay. taow, wait, that's the Board's
)
t 8 Order.
9 <
Q Whien is une titth page oA the cocument. It indicates l i
10 unoer tne suuroary that on July 20th,1!se2. .
11 iA Yeah. But tnst was wiien Doctor Ross Lanouman aiscovereu I i,
12 that Consumers hau excavateu ueneatn tne deep Q ouct 13 u a n ,t .
l l
14 Do you recall him notitying you or tnat at or about that j
[Q I
15 k point in tiue?
l I
16 A 1 know being -- 1 recall being aware or it. But exactly j 1
17 l when -- when tnat was, I'm not recily cure. You know, I l
. i 18 can ' t --
Ib Q iinen you rirst learneo of it, uiu you have an opinion as i o
' s 20 f to whether it was a violatlun ut tne April 30th, 1982 {
l l 21 Bouco Oruer or not?
22 A My attitude would nave been Doctor Ross Lanuuman -- at 23 the time that it when a Boaru Orcer v210 con' t cig unoer 24 bor.uthing anu it tne cartn was excavatou, tuen it's l
Ipfayette Hutidane min %rthurstern Ils s Snar Ma 962 1II6 Sua,- 2 rs inetrrit, \lahigaer SR:.'t> Farmsner<m listis, \lahigan uvus
. 73 i
1 Antuitively obvious floa the above that there woulo I
2 probauly be a violation -- a suspecteu violation.
3 Q Have you reac the testimony tnat Bob Wheeler gave L 4 ; regaroing thiu particular issue?
5 At the liearing?
lA 6 0 That he woulo have given at the llecting, 11 that is 7 encoupuusec in this report.
8 A 1 prouualy oiu. But I aon' t receucer any ot the 9 l specitics on the testimony au I sit here.
10 $ MS. NEERitiG Next Exhibit is D-4747.
, l 11 (Exhibit D-4747; Supplemental report 12 to ottice or investigation report 13 untes or 7-11-83 through 8-8-83.)
14 BY HS. NEERING:
i 15 Q This Exhluit appears to be a supplemental report to the ;
I l 16 ; report previously cascucLeo in Exhibit D-4746, catoo -- ,
l e j 17 the investigetion was catou July 11tn througn Auguct Oth
{
16 or 1983. Do you recall receiving this particular 5 l
A9 ; occuuent? l l < l 20 ;A ho, 1 00 not. l s
21 Q Doc L it inoicate wno conductea this inveLtigation?
22 A Well, the reporting Invectagator was Chuck Well. ,
l 23 Q OKay. Wcr e , % < aware that there was a suppleuental .
14 f investigati.;; that went on?
l
"# 3tHl0 %th.ntern ll** '
l.nfay ette Hauldeng I .surte Mn 462 IIi6 .%u,ute 50
(
Iktrmt. \lahugan M2.% Farmunerm lisits \behigan mnis
. 74 l
1 )A I woulo say at the time -- you know, we hao Chuck Weil, i
2 l we useu to caA1 hici our Res1uent Investigator, so, I'm I
3 l' sure that I wou -- I knew that they were out
- i. .
i 4 invuuttgating curing this period or timc. Because we 5 l knew tne Investigator baic when they were investigating. ,
6 lQ Okay.
7 ,A Oh, well, in fact, I know -- yes, I wab aware of tnis 8 one. Now that I read some at the pages.
9 Q Weru you interviewed tor this particular investigation; 10 the suppletoentaA investigstion or tne previous?
11 :A Well, I thinh I was. I nau talked with Chuck Weil.
12 Now, I uon't -- it I was intervieweu, you've gut it in 13 here soueplace, oksy, Dut, you know, like 1 sa10, I know 14 I talkeu with Chuck well. Anu then you say, well, was i 15 1, you know, interviewcd with regard to an investigation ,
I i
16 l going on? You know, a couple of years back per oc when I 17 r you' re alreacy talking with the guy regularly, well --
?
18 l0 l'm talking about giving a signeu statement with regard I i
19 ; to tue investigation into the violation or the April i 20 30th, '82 Board Orcer.
l '
21 A 1 have given signeo statemento to Chucky Weil, ou t. I l
( 22 cen't recall sitting nere wnich topic c1 ciscussion they 23 were over at the time.
24 ;O 1 olun't 11no a statement it. cather one, tnot's why 1 ,
SU 00 Nfporting Se rn ice lAf4)ette ikidmg M10 \orthu rnern lf,, ,
Suite MO q g g , j j ,. g neate 22 i
IHrmt, \lahie n 48:26 Farmmitm fli lls, 11ahice twom
e 75
- i l l i
i 1 i wuc asking yeu wnether you hud inoupencent reco11cetion l l
i 2 or giving a signeu stateaunt regaroing this particular 3 issue.
4 A Hell, that'u wny there arc in captivity signed 5 statements that l've given to the Investigators. If 6 L they're not here, then becahue every time that 1 010 7 give one I noticou it was belo in one ct the otner G cocuuensa. So, you ktiow -- so, 1 gucus I'u say it it 9 isn't there, I probably alun' t give onc.
10 MS. DICE: Ott the recora. ,
i 11 (Briet discuGLlon helo oli the record.)
I 12 14 S . NEERING: Back on the record. l t i 13 liS. RICE: You may want to refer to Dates 14 nuuber 1175 of Exhiott 4747. t i
15 MS. NEEH11;G : Tnank ycu. g i
I '
16 ; MS. RICL And that cuy be wnal you're
,1
- b 17 rererring to.
16 A Okay. Tnis wab Walker'd on this ibuuc. Okay. Ws1ker I i l 19 wcs one or the Invectigators out or one or the Region 5
20 2 Ottices anc ne was to inceIvicw -- I think fir. Donnell l
21 in Colorauc or wherever nu was. Anu et the time he was
( 22 leaving he neeuco a statement trum myselt, because I'd 23 ,
had contact with Donnell. Anu Go we Weru in the Region 24 Ortice ano, you know, hurricoly 96ve him come couments, i I' ' "
lafverre Hwldine :in4In %rthuestern lla e swte hyl 962 liib hw ra sio IW:rmt. Whtcan M::n Farmincron llolls %hican w!8
. 76 I
i l
1 ao rar as I can recall tneu. In tact, I think that was ,
2 on the duy of one ot the SALP review meetings.
l 3 l BY MS. NEERING:
i i
4 Q Anu tnib particular statement appears to capuslize the 4
S converuation that you had with him on July lith, 1903.
6 A Yes.
7 Q Okay. Hao you heard tron anyone cise becides Donnell 6 that he wac being let go because he hau tolo Consumers 9 , that they shoulon't be cigging unuer the ceep Q ouct 10 bank without approval trow Hous Landauan? .Had you heard l
11 scuttlebutt arounu the site? !
J 12 A Oh, can. I want to say that I think that I aio, but I l 13 can't give you the specitics as to who or anything like l
14 , enat. I can' t lock in on c -- my mino won' t picx ap a !
l 15 setting where I hau a conversation witn siiyboay. But uy ',
d E 16 l general attituoe is I thing that I may have neuru !
! f 17 i clullar. !
- f. I 18 iQ Banco on what you neard, aid you think that there was ,
i 19 ; any truth to that?
i
! # j 20 iA Well, I think I statec here that there wac some truth to i l
, 21 that, alun't I? l i
e 22 Q But tue thiny AL -- th15 18 that scuttlebutt, as we i l
t 23 character 1ueu it, is atter this, ulter tnc Inveuttgators t l
24 g were on Litc? '
f fafaytre Hwldane Milo %rthu r.rern flu >
sac ,aa 962 1176 % 0, Lv iktroit. \fschsten 18x% Formoneton floth. \la hitan 18018 L
. 77 j
i 1 lA t
I son t or reel -- let me look just a beconc.
2 N h . J E14 S L t;; You' re cesting hira it he believes 3 ! tnere's any truth to scuttlebutt wnicn ne thinAs he may 4 have hecro, is tnat correct?
5 HS. 11EERit<G: I'm asking him based on what he 6 hearu stounu this perloa 01 time, July ot '83, whether i
7 ; he believeu that there was any truth to it or not. Anu 8 I con' t sue that in nere, so I'm asking hita.
9 A I'm inclinec to Delieve that I woulu not have hearu 10 enough scuttlebutt to trigger me that Consuuers hao i
11 tireu soucbouy because or uoing their ]cu, it you will.
l 12 I woulo have probably highlighted tnat and cone '
1 13 so:autning with it because that's an issue that 11RC l
\
14 Inspectors are very sensitive to. tiow, when 1 talk '
l i
15 l about the scuttlebutt anu vaguely remembering, you know, 4 0 1 16
[ arter the Invectigators were there, it woulu be probably 17 ) highly prouable that I woulo nave hearc it af ter tne 1
lb ,
investigation or while the invectigation was in progress l
19 [ or wn11e there was an asuue in the Hearing.
l 20
- bY HS. liLEhlliG :
i 21 You indicateu on the secono page: "I aiu not contact i
lQ 22 Chuck Weil ur 01 wit.h thiu antoruation." lihtch seems to 1
23 ,
tolluw what you just testiticu to, h
i 24 HS. RICE: libat's the queutlun?
1.nfayrte Hwidme win W1hurman flu sa, em 962.I1Ib Ma< Lo lartwr, \lachtenn M2.m Farmmatun iblis \fuhirun 180!4
. 78 i
t i
1 j BY HS. NUEH1hG: I t
2 Q The question is: Woulo you have contacted Chuck Weil if 1 i you would have thcught tnere wau uoou merit to what Mr.
l' 4 Donnc11 was 6aying?
e 5 A Well, the 619niticance 01 what Dr. Donnell was saying --
6 you've got we ucying it -- or saying that there was 7 oigging unoer the acup y auct oank, the sign 111cance of U that probuoly diun't becoue a wa]or issue until Lancauan i
9 was acehang inrogmation on it. And then ab we taixco '
f 10 about it -- occou6u as 1 inoicatea here I went out to i
11 j Donne 11's trailer and 1 -- when I lott there, felt that l
I !
12 ne relt mostly -- how uo I want to say it? i 13 Well, tirst I went out there because he inuicatoa 14 ,
that he might likc a job witu the NBC, uno be was a !
15 '
reaconsuly 9000 Inspector, ano so that woulu be a normal l i
16 r thing. We weren' t in the business or recruiting people F
17 orr at conuumers, but a gentleman's agreement was that !
r (
lb : it a guy was interestec in the NRC anc he uauc the 5 19 j initiative to us, why, then, ne'o neco un application or 4 I , ;
l 20 1 wnatever, we woulo ao those things f or them, you know, 3 l l !
21 no catterent than any other citizen, f( 22 Ana then, you know, chere was this attituce that l
f 23 Donnell was unhappy with being, you know, Act 90 ano he i-24 g attributeu it neavily to pernaps the involvement ot 1 I
f.no : d Reponiy Sen ice ,q y,, y ,, ,
lathyrtre ikildsne ,q,,,
l s'a, ny; 962 1176 ka. Lt>
IWeroa, \lichigan 3:2r> Farmunerm fl<ll', \la htea" W 8 i
. 79 1 1. breaking up tne little skirmish that had occurred at the 2 Q/A group anu, you know, the embarrasuuent, that i
3 Consumers telt that I arrived at the scene at the wrong .
4 time, at you will.
5 Now, au tar as the digging unuer the deep Q ouct 6 Dank, then it waL sort or like after the tact, that the i
7 : signifie:ence of that, you know, is the iseuc or -- that 8 Deing the violation or the boaru Oroer, becaue more 9 , known. I'm trying to think when tne heck it was 1 10 l talked to -- well, Summer or '78 which was the came 11 timettamu tnal Londouan was. l 12 0 1 cnink it was Surauer ot '82. !
s 13 A 1 mean Summer or '02. Ano -- okay. That was in tne !
I i
14 , same timetrame as the coep Q duct bank episoue with Rocu i i
15 i Lanostaan. l f i 16 tQ On to a catterent topic. $
1 -
1 17 Ditlerent topic. LXcy.
lA l '
10 Since you were involveu with the Midlana pro]ccc prior l lQ r
19 to the 'rnroe Mile Islano acciuent end then Ior some time 1
' l 20 alter tne acciuent in March or '79, can you -- dio you 21 teel that there was an irqact. on the regulatory process t 22 ,
ar, i t relatoo to Iiolano as a result of the acciuent?
23 l
H3. h1CE: Are we taixing about his personal i
24 beAlei now?
I' ""' '
Infayne Ikidung Mio %rthunwrn ils k,g,, s u o 962,ilib k a< :. u kruu. Whigan IRL% Fa'moneton Iblir W h,tas 18014
. 80
. t i
1 1 ; MS. IlEERIt1G: Yes.
I i
2 BY MS. NEER11G:
3 ;Q Personal beller.
t i 4 A Peruonal attitude townrou the regulations?
5 0 Uc11, nu. I ' la auking whether you telt that there was an 6 impact upon ene regulatory process as it relateo to 7 Mauland.
6 A I con' t icol th at there was. I don' t think the accident 9 nad anything to ao with the regulatory attituue at 10 Miolanu. titoland was a plant unocr construction. tiow --
11 Q Mcybe my question wasn't clear enough.
12 l' ta not talking about tne attituue towatch Midlanc.
I 13 A Wcil, l'u talxing about -- go aheco.
14 , Q But wnen I say regulatory process I mean in terus or the i 15 interactions between the Utility and the 14hc with reg 6rd l
16 i to cay-to-cay goingt on with the plant. Dio you reel I
17 4 that as a result of Three Mile Islano that tne ,
4 18 regulatory process sloweu down with regato to H1alano? j 19 A Dio it slow down? tio. ;
3 20 Q Or statco another way: Dio you reel that it was more i 21 citticult tu move aheaa witti licending activitten based i 22 upon otner -- baueu upoti the IGC being tico up with -- {
23 A Okay. Thut was with regard to the tolks in Washington l:
24 primar11y. Tnat they ulu -- there were topics -- let's f
- 1. od Reportung Sereice ,p ,,,,,,,,
I.nthyene ILniding ,,
%ar ran 462 1176 .swic . o IMrms. Whoean m2.% Farmnerun lidis \la hecan mois i
b
, 81
- f I see, f
2 l Datl !!cou wee Lne Project Hur;cycr ano I remember l
3 ! having conversations, um exact topics of it was -- I i ,
4 l con't reucuuer what they were, out naving to ao with the 5 Reviewerb that woulu be necessary to review certain 6 ,
portions of the FSAR and some or the licensing aspects, 7 anu about nin lamenting that the asserc in Washington 8 were Lieu up with the evLluation or the eventh at Three 9 Mlle Islanu. and tne lupact or what nau happeneu here i'
10 witn rc9 ara tu enose plants tnat coulo operate either a 11 D 4 W btyle or Just a probsurizea water style. i t
3 12 Tnere web an inpact on the inoustry with what huo i 13 happenou there. Ano 60 that took NhC assets to, you j 1
14 know, evaluate ano deteruine what our other regulationu ?
}
i 15 t way be neuceu to upgraue other plants such tnat you f '
16 i woulon't nave a repeat portorusnce of the Tntce Nile 2
E 17 j luiana event. f 18 g So, but au tar as wh&t I was coing at the site, 1 19 can't say ab there web eny iupact. The 0/A Progran l l
20 hteyco ttle sane, the eighteen criteria stayec the saue. j l
21 So troa tnat stanceoint it acuco crecence to wnat I was i 22 alreau) uoing. In other worus, you sey why uo you 23 expect a Licensee to ao quality work? Ana tnlu was the 4
- l 24 [
exampAe why you expecteu tnen, although boueone i 4
f.nfnerre linidung M4 to %rthu rarrn 11..
i %rr Mo 962 1176 Nar. No Iktrm t. \tahitan 18:26 Farmeneron Unlis \takien 13o14
82 i
i 1 j knowleugeaole in operating reactorc know full well what 2 the potentiaA energy 16 available in a core anu you 3 reulize that your coumission is to attempt to have the 4 Utility , it he's going to license the plant, to have 5 l that plant Duilt in sucn a manner that the public shoulo 6 l not be in 3eopardy oecause of its existence.
7 0 Lecause manpower in the Washington ottice was ueing i
b l pulieu away to concentrate on Tnree Mile Islano in '79 l
9 j tollowing the accicent, w&u it more difficult to arrenge 10 tot meetings witn the Washington Statti aiu you have to 11 wait longer in terms of having thera?
12 M6. RlCE: Again are you talking about Ron 13 ,
Cook weeting with the Washington Scatt?
I 14 . HS. NEERIhG I'm talking about the Utility a i
15 meeting with the Washington Statt babeu on what ne 16 knowc. j l
- r I 17 (A Well, it the ueetings were pertuaning to certain aspects l I
l s
18 j that necueu to ue reviewco, environmentally or whatever, ;
i 19 l An changes to the PSAR setting and back-fitting to
\ <
i 20 accommouate the eventh of three Hile Island, I woulu j 21 have to say there probably wab an impact on these type l 22 of heviewerb, that tney were spreau thin, anu the 1
23 esphobid wLs more on -- at that true, on atteagting to 24 uo souetning whicn woolo precluce s in:ec Mile Island 0 l' "'
- 5" talk >erre fuld,ne noo wthuwm II..
%ge mo 962 liIb kr Lv iktmt, \1,<hieu m2:n Famuner.e thlis \lahigan ikM
l
, 83 i
1 trom happenitig until we coulu fino out whht the full 2 ALpact ot Three Illie Islanc web.
3 ' BY MS. NLERlliG:
4 .Q Do you Know how long that situation lusteu?
5 .A Prouably twc years; just cvamon ort-the-cuir gueus. But 6 , that dion't have any impact on what I old. I can't say 7 ab it hao any real impa ct on some ot the ichues that 0 were being caucussea with regato to Consumers airectly, i
9 I like t!ie CCP, say, or meetings over anotrumentation ror 10 the dicac1 generator building. because 6 lot 01 the 1
11 people that were in a reviewing procecu ot thouc things 12 were a bit -- they woulu not in their normal course bo i
13 involveu in trie reviews ror the Three Mile Islanc event.
14 jQ oney. Dio you do anything to prepare tor thiu
! I 15 , oeposition, cio you review any cocuments -- [
l I 16 ,A Let'a see.
17 i0 -
privt to the January?
18 A Tt.e January one?
19 IQ Ano tousy. ,
f
. I 20 Not really. I guecs I'u say not res11y much. Lact lA 21 night I wab looking at the uepoultion, I can show you '
22 about where 1 pawco through it, uno I lookcu at it when 23 the folks in Wasnington sent it to oc. No highlights or L
24 > anything like that. I kino or pawou, looking at what IAfkyerre Hwidine I~ '
.vt3In %rthu rstren ilu .
%wir hvo 9 6 2. ] ] 6 _sw y,. ;l,,
(H rm t. \lschigan 182:n Farnuntron lidis. \luhtcan Wl'i
. 84 4
1 enat wat. Is that preparing? Well, that's what l've 2 cone. Au tar as going over and reviewing inspection 3 l reportc ano all this kina or sturP, My testimony ought i i 4 to ue intuitively obviouu: I clan' t uo nuch of that, S not dic I intenu to.
6 Q Prior to meeting here tocuy, have you nau any contsct 7 with attorneys trom Dowt 8 A No.
9 'O Prior to the January weeting anu the deposition have you .
10 hau any contact?
11 A on, now, wait. Let uu think about that.
i i
12 We were copying cocumenth or something -- lut we j r
'- I 13 abk the question of Low. I had a box ot oocuments or l
14 soucthing -- if I'm allowou? You know, I hao a box ot 15 documents ano we were supposeo to get then to Dow ano k; !
16 Consuuers anu it beenec to me line I talkeu to noucbouy !
17 p at Dow &nu where ou 1 mail this stuft to. Anu you l 16 olon't take copieb, cio you? Diun' t I make copies or 1
5 19 i stutt? ,
i 1
20 HS. RICL Are you roterring to arter the ;
l 21 first deposition? I I 22 A Arter the first ceposition. ,
l 23 HS. IllCE: You taay have cuileu souconc f rom i 24 Dow. We clun't t c h e t h et.i, )cu did uall theu cirectly to 4 l
la d Reporting Settice y m y,,g ,,,, y,,
Isthyerre lkidant g,, u; 9 6 2 1 1 l* 6 su,. A o ik trout. Whitan 3:21, Farmenaton lluth. \luhute IkliH
. 85 1 ce. So, You may nave c=11eo.
I 2 lA In that snutrie I vaguely remember talking to a Dow i
3 l
lawyer. Anu l'u not uute that I aid or cion't. And it I
4 !, had to oc with the logictics ut where do I nail tnis 5 sturt to you. Anu it night have been llRC lawyers, I'm 6 3 not sure. But no questions or unything like that trom 7 : Dow. Oksy.
t1 BY MS. Ul'EltiliG :
9 !Q Otner tnan logistica, nothing regaruing the substance or 10 your work at Hiolanu? .
11 A 14 0 . I i
1; Q Okay. lieve you caucuhtea your cepoultion with any hhc l t
13 otricialb like Gallugher or Phillips or Koppler? ,
14 A Onay. No oli P111111ps. 140 on Gallegner. No on Keppler. i I.
15 Any other 14RC ottacials?
l0 !
4
'! r 16 ["A Let's see. I mentionou to Rose Landsman nere in the ,
I
' I i 17 ? last -- Act's see whet t was he? lie wou oown at )
l
! 3 le ;
Chattanooga in a break in between scnuols anu I clo f <
r .
19 h cention tnot 1 inoicateo -- in tsct, it came ch a !
t t
. l 20 wurprise to ue tnut he's alco going to give e .
l l l a
! 21 ueposition.
l
! 22 Q Diu you cibcuss the topics in your 11tst deposition? !
I 23 A No. l 24 The tirbt portion or the oeposition?
{Q l l
I*' '
IAR)erre Hwldung M PI %rttu u rsterr. ll~
.s oa terho 462 1176 k aa ;; >
IWtreur. \tahutan LC2n Farmmer<m firitu \taktean V;on !
I
t 86 i
l 1
1 ; A It was utscussed in the most generalist or terms. In i
2 !
other words, it wou, well, what are they boring in on?
3 Cripes, I don't know. They're looning at stutt tros l
4 1978, 1980. So, there waL, you know -- I can't think of S any specificu that I gave when I talked to Lanoamen. I 6 wab calling Lanubman to fino out what boric acto cows to 7 concrete. So that wus over another luuue, so that'h why b i even talAcc to hiu. So as rur ab uiscussion, no. As 9 ,
rar ab ciucussing witn anyuouy at the plant, I ucan over 10 here, I mean, ruey know I was giving copositions.
11 Again, it was only in general terms.
12 Q Diu Roso --
' 13 A The lawyerc uno such line that, I aon' t know if they' re i I
14 or11clois or sonething. )
i !
15 'O Did Hoss Lanocuan ock you how you hoo testariec i
16 l regarding any particular issue?
17 iA ho.
IU MS. liEERlNC: I don' t have turtner questions.
19 jA Wait. Sorry. Go ahead.
20 lQ tio. Go ahuao.
21 A 1 aust saiu I wouldn't have expecteu tnat type of a i 22 proue trou Lanucuan. You know, we're not in this 23 talking about the iLuues uno we don' t -- it's gust say 24 whatever you're yorng to scy. ;
lafyrne Ltdant "W Min %rshearre llu .
%rr hk) 962 IIIb %re Lu
[ktrar. \faran L'l:2n Farmnners llulls \laran Ihnm
87 i
l l 1
f MS. tiEERIhG: 1 con't have any rurther 2 l yuestionu at talo time.
)
3 l Hb. HICE: lihy con'c we creak tor lunch and i
4 l
then that will give tse time to tormulato some yuustions, 5 ; &nu it Acond like we'll be uonc today.
6 : (Luncheon recess taken.) '
l 7 REDIRECT EXAllI!4ATIoli b < BY HG. RICE:
9 -Q Hr. Cook, I'm going to ask you a tew questlunu 10 i concerning the occuuents you produceu to ou arter your 11 Or.liuary cepoultion, enu then uowe quoLLlons that 12 Lollow-up on wnst Mr. Draker atou consuraero Power snu i e
IJ hu. 14ecting uskou you on Lucir Cross Exduination.
14 First l'u line to nave you pull out in tront of you r i
15 !
two accuocntu that hu. liecting gave you this morning 16 cackeu ab D-4754 anu D-4753; both ot thern appear to be ,
j 1 17 i your notes and logs. I
? ;
le 'A Oncy. I 19 Q Anc l'c like yA to clear couething up tot the record. l 8 i 20 i I thins they've been on an'u ott roterreu to au notes ano l t
21 logu. Anu you'll notu botn D-4753 cnu D-4754 ooth cover i 24 the general time perivu. Coulu you tell at the 23 citierence between the two 199b or Lutu or notes't 24 !s / roc. D-4754 10 e chronological lasting or waat I cid 1
- f. su : d Reporting Sernice ,, g, ,
istkyrno i %e , , , ,
%re Mo *b2'II?h kar ;.8r IWtnut, \tachigan 48.'.% Farwneton llulb. \fakiean WIR l
. 88 i
1 ; baulcally with uy time on the site -- well, my time in 1
2 the NRC, because there may be sturr that I wa n' e t on 3 -site in there. Tau other one, D-4753, was a spiral l
4 notebook tnat 1 uwed to take with oc if I were going to 5 i go primarily to exit meetings or acetingh of interest i
6 ! with the Licenuee, entrance interviews in here, but 7 ! usually ot a uccting type nature or more moraal meeting i
8 l in the some context, like I hald, un entrance meeting or 9 I an exit weeting or souething like that. Anu bo rather 4
10 .
than taking a large notobook witu uc, I took a spiral
' notebook; anu that's what D-47S3 is.
11 12 Q Ano let uo sue it I'm correct: D-4753 toen is a
' I 13 ,
compilation oi notcc that you took at various usetings i
14 througn '78 -- Noveuber of '78 through, I think it wac, 15 l October or '80?
i 1 16 lA October 01 '80.
17 Q Anu D-4754 lu your oay-to-uay activities wnich ucy also l
?
16 i encompabs those tuctings that are recorava in D-47531 au 19 tnat correct?
l I
20 lA les. In Luct, the notes that are in D-4753 may not even j 21 be notes that were taken at a weeting. It uuy be 22 thoughtu that I woulu write uown in preparation to go to 23 a muuting. Tney were just notes to help me Lunction in 24 a uveting environount, whereas the D-47b3 were, 1 baiu, I' " * ' I" " "'" MU0 %rthu'~wn th< >
14vrete Ikunne s,,,, ny; 962 1176 .% n 2. n 1%r, \lwhitan #sC2r> l'arnuncton Ihlis \Ic hic <tn W
, 89 1
1 , a chronological accounting oi what I diu with my time.
2 The two cocuracnts had untarely ditterent tunctions.
3 I,Q All right. Let me cirect your attention now to the 4 daily 109 book $ D-4754.
)
b A Okay.
6 'Q Anu in her examination thau morning Mc. Neering reterred 7 you to a rew ually entrics in this log ano aLkcu you 8 soue questions. Ano some of those questions concerned 9 what Consumers Power was reporting to you concerning the 10 status et the DGB bettlement. All right. .Do you recall 11 cnose questions?
12 A Yes.
4 13 ,y Ano I beileve that you said tnut Consumers Power 14 regularly gave you upuates concerning the status of the 15 : DGB investigation, is that currect?
I I 16 lA Yeu. i l 17 ,Q Now, it I coulo cirect your attention to Butec number 18 630 in your 109 !
19 A Okay. 630.
20 Q Anu I'd ilke tu direct your attention to the very enu ut j i
21 the sixth line tron the bottou. Tnat begins the l
i l
l
, 22 sentence that Desanb taixco.
l 23 Talneo to Get ry Phillips about sne status ot the olesel lA !
l 24 uutiding anvestigation, new info. Tue curainstration I
?
l r
I' "# MH %rth *"" II" -
Ixthyrtte Lidine har Mr) 90?*$$?D ktle 2.19 Intrm t, \lahigan WC2n Famunt!* ll<l!\ \la kiran Vol%
l I - _ _
90 1
1 } uulloing unowed signs of exceus setticuent. .
i 2 If you recall back in January when 1 askea you some lQ 3 i questions on Direct Exauination, you saiu you couldn' t i
4 recall the titut time you learned of the cottlucent of 5 the acministration cu11 ding in 1977. Does reading this 6 cctreah your recollection that you discovereu that the 7 auulnistration nau -- the aumanistration ouilding had 8 uettlec in 1977 on December 21st, 19787 l
9 ,A bleil , the onto December the 21ct showu that I maae or 1 i 10 hau a converuation with Gerry Pnillips. Now, bear in ,
i 11 mino, I haven't reau the previous pages. If there 16 no '
12 other mention at it, then 1 woulu say that that probably i 13 woulo nave been aucut the time that I tirot became aware f i
14 ot the cettlement or the moninistration builoing. The i
15 timet r wae , as I recoAlect, is not all that bso, it you ;
3 16 will.
(; .
17 !O Do you recall it at was Gerry Phillips who colo you
{
! 16 auuut the exceccive ccttlement of the acuinistration 2
19 ,
bu1 Acing?
i 20 g A No. In actuality 1 thought it may have been somebouy 4 i : .
l 21 else, out then I'm not really sure or how I was inrormea l
22 ot it. But somehow Ly Lino ooes not lock in it wab i
23 Ger ry Ph1111ps that woulo nave colo me that to start 4 24 with. Now, who it was, I oun't know. but that woulo M pl %ethsentern llo l.n thy rtte final.I,ng 962 ll ?b hasar 2;o
\ % e M) l Intnut, \ta kiron 4Cn Farmenetm Hallu \1u kien n;M L
. 91 i
1 not neceusarily -- I coulo have written this statuunnt 2 saying that I had tuikea to Gerry Pn1111ps aoout it. In 3 ; other words, I racy nave known about it betore I made I
4 thau entry in the 1o9 cook, but I can't nail that uown l
i 5 eatner just reduing unat statement.
6 Q But av you rechil generally that Decccbor '76 was the 7 tirac1.rame in which you learnou about the noministration 8 bulluing setticuent?
9 ,A As I recall, in that -- in other woros, it was sone 10 -
arter knowing about the ciesel generator building that 1d 11 that I wac uware o1 the acawinistration bulluing.
12 0 II 1 coulu otrect your attention to D-4753, and Bates 13 nuucer 86, wnich appears to be the notcu or the December l 1
14 4, 11/76 weeting. It you recall enat we -- outn I askeo i 1
15 , you queucions concerning enas raeeting cud Mr. Draker ciu i
IG in January. Ana I will Just have a quick quchtion on i i
, 17 i this. I I
10 Do yuu recall -- ou you vec anytning in these notes l
19 that woulu tell you Enut Conauwers Power clueusced in g j
i !
I.
l
. 20 the DeceLber 4 uweting the ucttituent ut the 1 I 4
l 21 auaintuttation bu11oluvi 22 A coulu I have ycur question again?
23 Q Atter your review or the noter ut the Lucemuer 4, 1978 i'
1 24 ueeting, tnat to soutaineu in D-4753, ao you seu ony ,
l I 1.n(nyue fluidmg Msto %nk ntm lin .
sa.a. m 962 ! iib .%,r. :. u iWtur. Whren M b Fermmeron llulls %htte W's
92 l
i 1 Anotection unat consumers l'ower reporteu the 1!v77 l !
2 aduinistration culluing settlenent during this meeting?
l 3 iA ho.
4 Q 1 also oirect your attention to, oh, about the titth 5 line trom the top on Bates number 80. Ttiat sayb June 6 ,
1978 tirst note or execus settleuunt; 10 that correct?
I lu that what that says?
7 b A That's wnut that sayu.
9 Q Do you know what is meant by Luis entry?
10 ;A Okay. 'incy nau a proyrua tor curveying the builoings as 11 ; they woulu eutablion snuu at periouac intervalu. Anu so 12 without going through ca t the udta that v.is gattierea 13 over tuiu event, au I recall it, enat it they touno en l
14 inoication or, say, settlement ut a bulloing, you woulo l Ib l not neceusarily becotwu alarueu uccouse you woulu expect I I 16 j to seu sono settlement. Anu at uay even say, well, gee
[ . i 17 whiz, it's buttling at e tacter rotc then we hau j
{
18 expecteo. Tne entry suio suout succlement -- un anch or i l
19 , settlement, the reaoings came back uight have anch and e l 20 nalt settlerunt anu -- thche are just, you know, 21 characteritations to help the explanation.
22 Wcal, he night not be coue overly slarueu at that
)
23 tiue realizing that he cAso nau a bacx-up burveying 24 progrou at trict trov ano then tau woulo watch at enu l lafayette ikidung f*"'"# ' Mm %rthurarm llo
%,rr ny; 4 h 2 117 6 ka, wo lJerr ut. \lochigan ist).%
s Farwngt<en fluih \lu kiran Ih' 6:h
. 93 i
1 i deterriiine 16 it now going -- it's utall a hign rate or l
2 i i
settlement ut an exceLLive rete or ar. excessive amount I
3 l or settiennt. So, the tera, you know, even enough I 4 chacterizco it nere ab being tirbt note of excessive 5 uutticuent, the tera exceas bettAcuent prousbly tu 6 retlecting to the whvAt Lupic ot bettleuent, 11 you 7 w111.
1 ,
0 Q Anu up you know now if you're reterring to the dichel 9 gener& tor builuing here?
10 A Thiu -- it prooably is roterring to the ciesel generator 11 buticing. k19 tit now I'o novo a huru time saying tor i 12 sure, but it prouably lu. because this is tne skue time !
13 period Luut we were cahcubuing the perlooicity to use in 14 ,
tne t.ecnitoring ut bu ll ui nga, . ;
l l
15 g Ano ao you recaA1 thec Consun.cru Power reported to you 16 , at thiu Deceauer 4, '70 reeeting tnat caceabive e , ,
17 i cettletent ut the 008 wue rirbt noted in June or '767 l
?
16 ;A I can't tecull that they reportea at in tnat context. I !
I I
19 recall that tney heu reported that they -- you know, in l I
20 i December they hou hau a nish gehuang. But, by itscir, l l 21 woulu not necubuurily silow theu Luc ability to utate
, 22 tnat it wub c A ceLulve in Junu.
l 23 0 'ihey nau nuu a high rowdans An June ut '787 l
g4 A Tnet's what i recoll, or buue purlod 01 t1De, anyway, I
l.athyrtw IklJme Wb %<r% *sterm ll~ -
l %ar w 962 11Ib Ma Lo Iktro:r. Whute 48.'.% Farmette liclls. W hir n W "i i
b
, 94 t
1 >
warlier. But tney woulu not have been able to, pernaps !
i 2 tully luentity it au Doing a settlu.cnt problem at that 1
3 time.
4 MS. hlCLI Utt the recoro.
5 ,
(Briet oiscussion neld off the recoro.)
6 l MS. RICE: Dack on tne recoro.
I 7 Bi 11S. RICE:
b Q Hr. Cook, on cuth my Direct Examination or you anu the i
9 ! Crobo Exawinution oy lit. Draker in January, yuchtlons 10 were abkuu concernin9 tile SALP-Il report th&t I celieve 11 you teut111eu you were tne pr1Liary author or. Anu lir.
12 Driker in January atkcu you questions concerning the 13 guiuelines anu procuourvu that you iolloweo in writing 14 ,
tne SALP-11 repor t. Anu l's Just going to ask you a tew l I
15 i quebtiona about tnat procucure anc the 11nal tormat ot i ,
the uocursent. Uut let ne back-up. '
16 ( ;
17 Wou trae pr eparation 01 the SALP-Il repor t part or 16 your otticial dutiet as a member or the Region 111 ,
4 19 .
Inspection Team?
i .
20 ,A Yes. ;
21 Q Anu wny were you criocen to oc the primsry auttior of tho l 22 SAL 1-11 report?
23 A 1 wuc 9oing to say I wantco to. I wonutt that myuelt <
24 '
suuetiuob. but tne attitude ut thinking at thc t1Ec was I' " * 'P "" # "'"
falayene kWe n so w : h no m liv
.%wr, Mo 462 11?6 % a, ,(o t wemt. 11u hips 2c.% Farwneim lidh, \tah:ce mo:s
. 95 I
i 1 with the Reuloont being close to the Licenbee, that they !
2 l were a 900o tocel point tor the other Inupectors to 3 j supply inf orLation snu be aule to musenbie a ruabonably I tair reprecuntation or what went on at the site 4
i ,
5 ,
history-wise. The Recioent woulu be very well aware or 6 the various inspections at that time anu he woulo sit on 7 their entrance ano exits tcr a lot or une taue, 60 he f
8 has a means et that Ilavor.
9 Also the inspector people in the Region were a 10 littio uit over-worneo at tuo time, you know, they were i
11 very busy people ano they hau travel obligotions do l 12 torth enu so on. 60 1 also telt that trou a manpower 13 manageuent aspect that telying on the Reuiuent might not f'
- 14 l oe such a bau luea troa juct strictly manpower l 15 l; av a11 eu111 ty . l t
- i
?
16 ;Q Anu cic you tollow uny sort ut guacelines or proceourca I
l 17 ( in the preparation ut tne SALP-Il evaluation ut diu you 1 t
le 1 3uut sort or makc up the turmat as you went along? I l
The beauings were uancateu by -- I'm not sure at the 19 fA I ,
20 t19e, eitner a ueno or on instruction or some uocument. <
(
21 An internal occuuent to the llRC gave the types ot' 22 hecaingu or interest to be uuuressou. l'L trying to 23 tnink wnat else ulunt oc in that 6/iLP t.vpott that cane 24 f out ot thac. I ca10 Imc. !
~
Isfa>rtre Hwldme M in % ihur w n Ils
%,te nto 962 liib Swtr L's I M nut. thrhre n W y Femmerm Hath, \bchien wom
. 96 I
1 ;Q Did you have any spec 111c guluelines with the NRC '
l 2 concerning the criteria to be oppliec in rating or 3 ranking tne Licensee?
i 4
A Yeb. In fact, we maku that known on une tirct couple 5 !
pagec ot the SALP report tnut we nave the criteria or 6 tne one, two, three criteriu ano tnere wd6 guiuance 7 verbage that went along tnut bauically establibbeu what e constitutec a criteria or one, two or three.
9 Beat in minu, there wes also a ueans or 11exibility l 10 in that, so ou cnet the toea was that the Inspectors 11 ) coulo Luo)eetively evaluate what they perceiveu as the l 12 pertoruance 01 the Liceabue, anu also they woulu have to l
k 13 be oble to ueteno their pocitions on tnis, too, j i
1 14 Q here the ranking categories one through three, at least 5 i i l
15 l insotar as the criteria to oc applied f or each one of 2 d
t l .
16 [ theac rankingu, unitoru within Region 1117 :
. I
[
17 A 1 would Lay so. I 1B {O Ano ulu other itegions outuide of Region III have similar :
19 i criteria? .
t 20 ' A Yes. In fact, that was nation-wiue throughout the NBC, i
21 althouw h it was the RegionuA Ottites that were hanoling j l
22 the SALPS. Anu then the SALPS were also getting l t
23 Coaulsblon attention ar.o review in b'achington. I 24 , Q So at one time wau every Licenuee evaluateu unoer the I.atherte B:aldant
- "## I' " ' " # Min %rthurarrn ll" >
s[rlnm 962 1176 k a, a o IVtreut. \lwh: tan W.% Farmmerce II'll'. \la h'enn M" 8 ;
97 j
1 l SALP progran?
l 2 lA Well, I can't say whetner overy Licensee was, but that 3 l was certaiuly the intent. You know, in other woras, 4 ; I've never conc kn cuuit eneck to maku bure some 5 Licensee u1on't get lost in the shurrie lor soue reason 6 or another. The intent www to evaluato all the 7 Licenuecc. There hau ocen other evaluation attempth by 8 : the NRC at estiler taces.
9 ;Q Anu prior to preparing the SALP-11 report -- which let 10
- Le give you a copy or that while we' re uiscussing it --
i 11 '
which has been uarkuu as NHC-13.
12 Prior to writing this particular aucument, had you e
13 participatou in tne preparation or sny other SALP 14 reports, wnetuor it be appAlco to Miolanu 6pecitica11y 15 '
or any other utility? l lb .A Tnere neu Loch -- Ant ne chock scuothing. }
17 t
To r(1resh your ric't.levtlon tnic au the secund SAALP l
l0
- 1 18 repor t ior Miolona.
I 19 ;A Well, there was a titut SALP report. We hac -- well, we l
20 uuco to call then a Hanagebent Evaluution whicn web the 21 prececebcor to what we now cL11 SALP-1, so there's that 22 11oating arounu. Ana I know that I never workeu on a 23 SALP report with the bute intunbity as the SALP reports J
Z4 uuuuCiureu with Lac haulknu pibat.
ui8,,,, n, w, ""'"'""s""" ~ ~,8 -,,,, u..
%qr pggrp Ib ? * $ $ ? Yb %tIr I IHrmt. Whien WC.% htm"c's HL W h re Pn'.
98 1 Lut me thinn it I may have h60 an input, thougn, on 2 ! other SALF reportu that may have buen generated towards i
3 othur plantu. I don't really recoil specitically, but 4 then I can't say that I cion't. Because I had gone to,
~
5 say, the Maculchill Plant ano I might have made a G contribution. I huo gone to the Zimuer plant, I may 7 huvu neue contrioutions on their reports. I menn, it l 8 woulo have been more to a contributing more to the 9 primary author on other Utilitics' 5 ALPS. I know that I r
10 i ha6 ciscuuccu rinuin9s with the Inspectors on what I had I l
11 anu whether -- I just can't scuenber whether I ever put i l
12 toguthor a SALP contribution or not. It you tino one, s i !
13 then I probably uio. j l
14 0 Let oc ask it another way Wac your participation in 8 l
15 preparation or 11RC-13, which is the SALP-II report, the j 6
16 11rst time that you were ever asked to sit oown anu f -
s ,
17 - evaAuute a Licensee's perrotuance as applied against l i
lb certain criteria, ior instance, the rankings one througn ;
i 19 three? j 20 [A I
Was tnic the Licht time? ,
I 21 y Up-unu.
22 A No.
23 Q Hsu you uuce much evaluations prior to thiu on a 24 treguent basis? 8 L
f h4 % F'll9 i $$
' \ '" k " " "' ' '
y y,' g p eD?*$$?O N :?! N' '
/Wmet, W A su W.'o fa"C'* N'th W Aire W'. A a
~.
99 1 {A No, not on a treguent basio. [
! t 2 jQ Hau you evuluated titulano cercre?
3 A SALp-I anu then also unuet that Management Evaluation i
4 Report that we useo to generato, b Q Okay.
i I f 6 A Anu there muy have even been two os tnose, I'm not sure.
l 7 *O Diu anyone tron the Nhc ever challenge or object to the 8 totuut ot liRC-13, which ab in Iront of you now, that you 9 preparvo?
10 ,A Did you say clu anyoouy trou the !!hC7 11 Q Chh11enge or object to tne toruct of, this particular i
12 cocuntnt. Ano let ce clarity my question by saying l r
13 ,
werely soue uinor eutting, utylistic type comments, l l s
14 i other thhn thdt. $ i
) I 15 lA The 1oruulstion or thic, I think thet some et the other .!
I 4 10 [ pihnts or perhaps sogne ot the other Regionu hau a
}
17 -
criteria where tnere were nsn hours expenuou associatuu l
! ! i j le witn a given ciocipiinc ano compar.o wien iteme ot :
1
, r 15 noncoupliance or homething such ab that. Now -- ' *
(
20 ,kO Let me ack you in a very q'ulck way: Are you talking } ,
4 t 21 about 14hc canpower or the Utility Lanpower?
22 A NRC uun nourt.
4 i l 23 Q Pleshe continue. i l
24 A tiow , in thic report chore vau neateu utscousion in tne j j !
inn eve n+1s,,e
'* " *!* * " '" urt urL~m it. ;
%alr,p} 402*ll?b '
.%<ar ..'*
fun :. \lahican N .y, Farmerm II,th. \l.. hire twik l
-y __ _ w---
y -
. 100
! I i
1 Region Decause some Inuividualb felt that I shoulo take 2 the couputer cate that we have storea in the Region and 3 apply it as the computer spitteo it out anu write 4 ,
coherent prose basco cri tnoue nuuuerb. It was an 5 1mpoccible task anu so, obviously, there were some harsh l
b f woros, because I was not ascrioing to the mold. I tooK 7
l the colaputer ortice ano threw it in another ottice anc 8 regenerateu it upon the average oocuments or the 1 l !
9 i inspection reports. however, I coulo not, cecause at 10 the mish-mobb or catc. associateo with the Inspector !
11 ! houra per oiscipline, it wab impobsible ter me to coue 12 up with anything that was a quantitative evaluation of 13 that type or cata._ So you may see other SALP reports l i ,
14 , that have them in tnem, this one coes not. Yeu, there <
t !
i 15 I were what I woulo classity as naron worob. I was s i :
16 ; eracroaching on the territorial imperativ tsm of tne !
! , i 17 l people .nat hanule computer data. I clairueo that my {
l
! ! 1 16 i cata was more pristine. j l
)
19 ,Q Diu anyone trou the liRC ever oo]cct to or challenge any i l '
i 20 spec 1ric evaluation of Consuuern Power prebentou in thlb j g
21 report? ;
j' 22 A On, I'o have to look through it. When you say any that i 23 always nurts. Wnat waa the question again? l l
l [
24 0 Let ue repurbe the quebtion, it acy help you answer it.
l I
- 1. u : d Reporting Service , , , ,,, y lafaytte Honiding Suite (L3!) NNA'55?D Sutte 2.l Iktrost. \fichigan 4822h Farminer<m lluth, \lahrgan I%M
. 101
. 1 1 Dio anyone trom the NRC ever object to or challenge 2 any 01 the specific ratingu given Consumers Power in the 3 specific tunctional areas? And let me cirect your 4 attention to the third page which you have in tront of i
5 you, which ib Dateu number N-11227.
6 lA When you use the purase of cnallenge -- can I talk to my l
7 j lawyer?
i 8 lQ Let me rephrase tue question once more anu I may be aDie I
9 to esve wooe t19e.
10 t was the assessment au reterenceo on N-11227 the 11 , final conuensuc or the NRC with regato to the ratings 12 that unould be given Consumers Power in each one of ,
e 13 , these functional areac?
i 14 lA
)
Yes, it is. Now, to get to those ratings there's e lot I i
15 l or ulucubsion goes on. The people that write the prose, ;
I i 16 I, uyself, we ueet and we have a SALP Board long betore 7 17 the Licensee gets anolo of Lnic cocument. Anu in tnat, l 18 ! why, each of your ratings are basically challenged by l 3
! )
19 the Boaru. Anu unless -- well, they oon't challenge '
n <
20 muen if it's maudle et the stream, saying that's an easy 21 one to handle. But if you're going to say to the 22 Licencee hau a Category III, then the people tnat are 23 responcible for generating that nuacer are celled upon, l
e :
24 and sometiues quite heateoly, to acrena why that is a lxfayette Huuldung I "N 3ml0 %rthu rstan llu >
Su,,, qq 962 1176 Surte 2:n Iktroot, \hrhigan 18226 Farmington iblin, thchigan 18018
. 102 i
1 tair evalut. tion. And also, similarly, it it woulo be a 2 Category I tncn' you' re sluilarly called upon to be able 3 to cetono that classirication and, again, sometimes i
4 ; quite heatedly.
l 5 'O Hr. Cook, based on your training ano euucation, ano as I 6 beliet you testitieu you hau engineering courses ano 7
f nuclear engi*1eering courses anu ycur work at the 1
8 Operating Section at OSU, along with your years or 9 l experience at the AEC/NRC, cia the evalustions anu tne 10 ,
opinions as put forth in NRC-13, which is in tront or l l
11 , you, represent your best proressional auogment as of the 12 time it was written? f i
13 a Yes.
14 .O Do you still stano by thic cocument --
i I
15 A Yes.
l l
l i 16 l0 -- and its evaluations?
l !
- l 17 p Now, 1 notice on tnc particular ratings that are la l 18 tront ot you, as we oiscussed in your prior testinony in 2 I
i 19 l January, tnat Consumers was rated Category III in five ;
i 20 carterent functional areau, being soils ano tounoations, ;
l 21 piping cystems and supports, electrical power supply and l l <
l g 22 distriuution, cesign control ano design changes, and I !
l 23 reporting requirements anc cor rective uction. Diu those !
I 24 i represent concerns by you concerning Consuuers Power's Isufyrtte Rwidene 3mIO \orthumtern fin .
Seite un 962 III6 So:1 - 2:0 1
lietrmt, \lithigan 18226 Farmintron fiells ican Inuis 1
.- 103 i
f 1 pertormance? , ,
2 MS. NEERIDG: Obj ection. We covereo this SALP 3 report in great length back in January ano tne i
4 particular question that you just askeo was answered t t
5 l outing that tile, Ana I think we shoulc oiucontinue
't 6 , tniu repetitive questioning.
l i
7 ' bY HS. RICU. ;
6 Q You can 90 aheaa una unswer the question.
9 j A On. I wab waiting tor the juuge to beat his 9avel.
l 10 Now, what wuu the question? , l l
11 , O Dio these, the fact that you rateo Consuucts Power l
5 12 Category ill in these rive areas, inoicate that you hau l i
13 concerns about Consumers Power's pertormance in thebe i
14 ! areas?
i 15 A Inuicntes that i nad concern. but, bear in wina, there
.{
}
16 '
were other people tnat were diso supplying input into l
- 17 this oocuuent, Lo it was not -- oon't characteriac it as i
16 I said, NEC against Consumers Power. There were -- !
.. }
19 what'd I say? NRL against Consumers Power. Anywcy
, j 20 Il con't characterize it as Ron Coor, against Consumeru l f.
l 21 Power type document.
22 We hao other Inspectors supplying inforuation here.
23 l I happeneu to hase cuen the author, you know, the I
a l
24 i priuary hurhor ror the prose as it iL written ner6, but f; Lumd Reporting Sersice ya ,,,,,,y, lxfayette Hwidung Sraste ran 962 1II6 Siento. 2:1 Detroit. \lithisan IR22r> l'armington Hrtl<, \fschigan 1k:11 4
. 104 I
1 that was baseo on input f rom other Inspectors in these ]
2 citrerent various disciplines here. Ano as this came 3 out I have no co3ection as to what these categories are.
4 ,
I teel tnut these are ILir categories as well as I 1
5 ! did tuen; yes. Ana, in tact, they were quite i
6 ! supportable. Tucy were quite supportable us we maoe our i
7 I presentation to the board. I previously inoicated this 1
6 4 arternoon that sometimes that those are heatec, ano --
i i
9 in other worcL, the Board is in a moue et a check anu i
10 balance, in other worus, to avoic the condition where l l
11 the Inspectors are, because or personality cont 11ets, 12 were being acusive to the Licensee, as well as 13 -
protecting the integrity of the regulatory process it j i
14 ,
tne Inspectorc are iceA4ng Iriendly towards -- put that j'
! l i
4 15 , in quotations, triendly towarou the Licensec. 1
- 1 16 1 take it, as my unuerstanding or Category III, that !
I 17 lf Q that indicaceb that increased attention by the Licensee -
1 l
?
i 18 ;
anu the t;RC is necessitated. D0es the rating of i
19 j Category III la any of these areas reticct -- strike ;
l 20 , tnat. <
0 1 21 Wau tne rating or Category III, in whicn you nean i i
22 that increasco NRC attention anc the Utility, Consumers l
23 power'c, attention it neeceu, was that in any way a i l
l 24 , result or the accicent at Thtse title Ibluno? -
l' 3thlo %rthemtern flu -
I.nfayette ikidme j g,,,,, yo 962 1176 here Leo Iktrmt. tlichipn 1822f> lhrminenm lirth. \luchigan 180,8 l
. 105 I
1 A No. The accicent at Tnree Mile Islano hac no ocaring on 2 it. We woulu have cone the same inspections 3 irregaruless or Tnree Mile island.
4 Q So in other words --
S lA In fact, that Tnree hile Isleno woulu not have occurred --
6 j let ac clarity that. Not that a Three Mlle Islano would l
7 r have occur reu, you know, out if a Three Mile Islano U bhoulu occur that the DRC can still maintain protection 9 or the public ab dia happen at Three M11e Islana.
10 Q You diccussed in your testimony with Hu. Neuring this 11 worning the impact or Three Mile.Islano on uke 12 , regulation sancr that time. Dia your rating -- NRC's 13 rating of Consuucro Power in the SALP-II report, was I 14 ; that in any way the result et Three Mile Islano? l t
15 !A No. They're quite reuoveu one trou each other. In this 16 evaluation we clu not really conbloer what hao gone on I a .
17 I at Three Mlle Islanu. We lookco at this au btrictly a l [
t 16 I construction or a plant. We Know that we make a !
1 !
19 I stateuent when we licenue a plant by the NRC, that the i
20 d local people -- that no wa'tter what type or postulateu l l
21 acciount wouac occur to the plant, that the people would 22 be protecteu trou that plant. Ana now you ao that is 23 that many vt the systea are what we call satety related i 24 systen, wnich acans they're in a category that they raust >
" I' ' " #
infayette Huuldune 'itfilo %rthu rsrcer. Ilu s,,ac r&> 962 1176 .% s!< .Q>
IMrort. \fichten 18221, Farmeneton llull<. \f.'churan Imn
. 106 3
1 function to citigate the dysfunction or an accioent.
2 Anu bo we're very concerned with integrity ot those 3 systems. Ano no that'c what, baseo on what our look-see f
4 at the systeus enat are vital to, we feel, protect the 5
l public in the event that there lu some kinu or an 6 accioent that Duralls a plant. It couan't even have to 7 be a Three Mile Islano, you can Just talk about an 8 : earthquake.
i 9 ; Q All right. Also on your Crosh Examination by Mr. Draker I
10 i in January, he aukea you questions concerning Consumers i
11 Power' u response to the SALP-II repor t, and indicating 12 that response by the Utility 16 conteroplatea by the ,
l 13 SALP-II guiuelinen.
14 (Interruption.)
15 ! BY Mb. RICE: ,
I i 16 l0 Let rac start over again ror you, Hr. Cook. i 9 .
17 In Crous Exaulnation Dr. Driker asked you some )
i 18 : questions concerning SALP-II guidelines, which we Just i i l 19 .
01scussed souewnat, anu the iact tnat those guicelincu -
l i l 20 J anticipato recponneu by tn'e Utility. Do you r ecall that i E :
21 testimony generally?
22 A Generally.
23 Q Anu I believe you reuponaea to Dr. Drlker's questions in 24 that the URC 000c, indeca, contemplate the Licensee to I I'
l.afa)ruc ikulding min %rthuestern th< v S,ae uo 962 1176 Nine bi Iktrmt, higan Mt220 Farmoneton Ihll<. Whican 180lH
' 107
. t l
1 responc to the SALP evaluationut is that correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And you also stated that the responue process was part 4 or the nernal SALP evaluation process, is that correct?
l 5 lA Yes. In other words, we make a presentation to the l
6 i Licensee and we expect to see some response tron those i
7 ! areas or weakness. Now, it tne Utility nau everything l
8 i hunky-dory, I'm not sure how We'c hanule that one.
9 Q And I believe you also testitled thet to the response or 10 l Consumerb Power with regard to SALP-II, which is NRC-14, 11 l was not the type or response contemplateu by the NRC; is j J
12 that correct?
l 13 A Let me check anc ce sure wnich response this is.
14 Q All right. 1 4
I 15 A It I remember right, there were two responsec. ;
4 16 . I thins this is the response that -- as we roterred I l
b 17 ! to tnis wou in past Hearings as being a bit i i l i
i 18 1 argumentative. :
i i
19 !Q Anu was this the type or response tnat the NRC l t
< l 20 contemplated at part or the normal SALP evaluation j i
21 process?
4 22 A Coulo you r e-ask that question?
23 Q Dio you reel tnat Consumers Power's May 16th rebponse, !
24 which 10 NhC-14, was more argumentative than you have f i 3
" P f.afaytte Hwid.nu 3mla %rthurerrn flu .
962 11I6 suite h)n suar 2.o IWtro<t. \fichiran #226 Farmancton Ilill<. \luchican molM
106 1
1 anticipateo that the response to the SALP repor t to be?
2 HS. NEERING: Oo3ection. Asked and answered 3 back in January.
4 iA 1
Now oo I answer it?
l 5 i MR. JENSEN s You can answer it.
I 6 'A We woulu not have expectea to have gotten an i
7 l argumentative response to this SALP. We woulo have 8 ! expected a response wnere une Licensco was receptive to 9 l the finoings of the Inspectors uno perhaps would have I
10 proposed certain Hanagement things or improvements that 11 ! they were going to make -- to hopef ully remove the 12 stigma of their classif2 cations at a tuture time.
13 BY HS. HICL:
14 Q Anu this particular reLponse cic noc rulfill the role 15 i that you had anticipateo, is that correct? i 16 A No. In tact, it even cupported one ot the findings with 17 ! regaru to argumentativeneos. i A
i 2
18 Q All right. I believe also that you testifico that you l t ,
i 4
19 l prepareo an evaluation of Consumers Power's response, 4 i
20 l wnich is NRC-126. Ano I'll ask you now if NRC-126 l
21 represents your best processional 3uogment at that time l
22 with regato to Consumers Pcwer's response to SALP-II? g 9
23 jA Okay. bela, circt, I think you've erroneously !
i 24 '
categorized what the cocument is. You uuke it souno I.afayette Hwlding Imd Reporting Sertice 3,m , y,, ,,,,,,,,,
Sisitl rwp 962 1176 swie 2;o Iktrmt. \lochigan 18226 Farmington Oil- \lithiecin Ikm8
. 109 I
1 like I was making an official response to their 2 r es ponse . It's not.
3 Q Let me -- I was trying to brietly characterize the 4 accument, but why don' t you *. ell mc what tne occument 5 is.
6 ;A This cocument was a working paper. We were going to go l 7 j in and have a meeting with Consumers over their response 8 to the bALP. In other worus, they hau generatea u 9 l oocuaunt, anu it was very abrasive to the NRC. It oio i
10 l not appear that it was being responsive to improving 11 f performance as we had hoped that.it woulo be ano oio not l
12 seem to acknowleoge the protessional opinions of the 13 ,
people that consumers naa to work with with regard to 14 the NRC. So, a buDcequent meeting was planned to l l
lb : ciscuss their -- their responce. Depending on how that - s 2 l wc11, then I generateo this occument NRC-126 ou a means i 16 ) ! .
l 17 i et working notes because I had cone a thorough j i
16 evaluation ot thei r response. Anu 11 each of the issues j:
i 19 l were going to oe discusseo at great cetail, I wanted to I 4
t 4
20 l have intormation available to support the finoings that i
21 we had already previously mace in the SALP-II report.
22 Tniu document, NRC-126, was like a working paper.
23 It we had gotten into that meeting anc Consumers nad i i 24 wantea to alter thcar position a oit, nobouy woulu have j lxfayette lhnlding I' "N Win \orthuester r fin .
Sente by 962.))T6 .wr,2ln lktreat. \fichiean M220 Farmineron lidh, \luhigan Imi's
. 110 1
1 ever seen this cocument. In fact, the only reauon it's 2 in the couain ib Decause it got pulleo out by FOIA. It 3 coulu have been hanowritten, it just happeneo to be 4 ; typewritten, ano the information on it had been S l exchangeu ano sharea with cne members of the Site Teem.
6 ,Q Did NRC-126, at the time it was written Dy you, 7 represent your opinions with regarc to Consumers Power's, 6 ! res ponse ?
Yes, it ooes.
9
]A
- 10 fQ Dio it represent your best proressional jucguent with 11 ,
regard to their response?
I 12 A It represents my best professional Juc9 ment. But, bear f
8 13 in minu, I haven't read at for a while. There might be 14 l sowe colort ui clienes in there, you might say, okay, j i
15 when 1 write notes to myself I sometimes use then. I f
d, 16 l con't remember what's in there. So, in other worus, the {
j -
17 l style ot writing is ror Ron Cook's use to use au !
I 18 l i
sometimes different than what I would write when I know $'
19 i something that's goin9 into the public cocument room. 5 4
l '
20 l But as rat as the cnaracterizations anc the protessional O 5 21 aspects or it, they're my opinion now as then, i
22 Q All right. Tnis morning curing exauination by Hs. I 23 Necting she was asking you questions concerning the --
24 l your outies as Resioent Incpector ano your requent ror
' W '"
Infve're lluuldung '
3telo %rthurstern lir.
suita ,Ja 962 1 lib huuic 2.i Ikredt. \!irhizan ytz r, Farmincr<m fleth. \lkhigan IXoih
1
' l 111 i l
1 aca1tional manpower in the Resloent Inspectors Program; 2 co you recall that testimony?
3 A Yes.
i 4
l0 Ano 1 Delieve that you testitled that you aio, indeed, 5 ; request aouitional help, is that correct?
i 1
6 4
,A Yes.
1 7 :g Were your requeuts ror adultional help in any way based i
0 l on regulatory probleus at M1alana?
i 9 lA Hmm --
10 Mb. hEERIliG : Oujection. Vague uno ambiguous.
11 ' BY HS, RICE:
12 O Let me try to clarity tact ror you.
13 Were any or your requests ror auditional help at
[
f I 14 the Resident inspectors Ottice bacea on the history or i l
15 ; regulatory proolems at liialanc? ;
i 16 4lA Well, I wcula guess I'd have to say they were oerinitely !
l . I 17 teutered by tnat. Okay? There was a lot of occket f, i
18 l activity at the plant, but we also hao things happening, ;-
19 j line investigatione or toes company. Anu wnen you get i
7 20 [ involveu with souetning like that, at tne saue time i"
21 you're starting to assemole, you know, pieces of tne l
I i 22 primary system, you xaow, it makes ror suue very long l
I 23 ,
oays. You may have noted in soue of the other -- you ;
1
- p 24 l know, the copics of my logs that some or those days werc !
t l
l "# Min %rthrerstern flu .
infayette Haildung Swtet&l 962 11?6 Swt 2)u IWtr<it. \lechiean IR226 Farmington Ildis. \fichigan 1801*i
. 112 i
i 2
1 ! perhaps rather long. That alone snoulo let you know ,
2 that the guy that's working those kinds of hours ought 3 to get a little hand once in awhile. They teed 4 ,
Incpectoru, too. .
!. l 5 1 believe you also testified this morning that one et lO 6 the events that h appenea, in response to your request or 7 ,
at about the uane time had helpea to alleviate your {
l 8 concern, was the tormation or the Ottice of Special l
t 9 + Cabes, is that correct? I I
t 10 lA Yes. !
i l
11 l0 Ano I believe you testitied in January that that was ;
f 12 '
tormed in July of 1982. Ano let Ice ask you --
13 A Okay, yes. :
I 14 7 O Let me back-up. It was tornec in July or 1982.
i :
15 !
Anu I believe you also testified in January that !
?
i 16 '
one or the purposes of the tornation ot the Ofrice ot i .
{
17 Special Cases was to tocus increasco NRC attention to {
i 18 111 di and . 1 1
, 1
- 19 !A Inoueu it Wes. i I
i J 5 20 i' O And was this nceu to focu[ increabec NRC attention to l i
21 Mid1dnu in any way relatec to the accioent at Three Mile i 22 Island? ,
23 A Ho. It wab relstou to couwents by ?!r. Jir; heppler whers 24 hL had told the Hearing Gosto that he woulo put whatcver I
Lnfayette Rwldmg
I# "# Min %rthu ntern liv .
t
%ite Mn 962 11?6 Mac Lv (Werott. \fichigan 18220 Farmmerm liills lluhigan 18vik
113 j
I 1 ; assets he necuec to Consumers Power. Ana we hao had our 5 2 SALP-11 presentation, afterwarus he, I ano some ot the 3 other Statt memberb hao a oiscuboion about it, ana it 4 wau the SALP-Il that had triggereo Lnat he ndu to co i
S i something Decause or him telling the Hearing Board that 6 l he woulo, you know, ensure goou quality at Midlano. I'm 7 .
not sure exactly what his stateuent was, but --
ano so 8 trou that then he ceciaeu to toro the Ottice of Special 9 ! Cases anu asbign a ulolanu Site Teau.
c-10 How, the tormation or the ottice ot Special casos, l 11 I'm not sure what cue real cate is on tuat, out it wab l
i 12 basically that Suuruer that we nad Inspectors that were j
13 being locateo rull-time to the Miciano plant, cearing in l I
14 mind that some or theu hac irons in the tire at other j I
15 l uites that they needed to professionally back ort of.
i 16 ; But the concept of cevoting Regional assets to Midlanu 4
[
17 i caue out at the eno or the -- at tne same time that we 1 h '
16 , were presenting the Licensee with the SALP-11, it was in 19 >
th at t:merrane. Anu 1 think Scncetier wau who came on j b ,
t 20 site in '82 or was involved in it. Whenever you see in ;
l 21 tue Anupection reports the entrance or Garoner anu i 22 Lanusuan unu that, that gived you an idea or aoout what l l
23 timeltwae it was.
24 Q 10 at a teir characterzation or your testimony to state !
I' " I" "# "5" lofvetu Haridine nio %nhu cern ll.-
Suure hja 962 III6 hain 2. ,
l><t n n t. \lichican 18:26 Fan..uncton fjells. \luhiean smi8
. 114 1 i that the Orrice of Special Cases was f orneo as a result !
2 of concuracru Powur's regulatory portormance as opposed 3 to outsiae forces such as Three Mile Islano?
4 A That's very tair. I don' t think the outsiue torces had i
S i any aifect on it.
6 Q All right. Arter the tormation at the Ottice ot Special i
7 ;.
cases I oelieve that you testirico that nr. Warnick, who B l 10 the beau ot th at -- the Hiciano Seccion for the 9 Ottice or Special Case 3?
i 10 ,
A No, Dr. Warnick was the the OLrice ot Special Cases ano 11 ! under hita there were two plants, .the Zimmer plant anu 12 tne liiulano plant. The Zimmer plant had a Section Chief i
13 in charge of its activity; the Miolano plant, we hau our i
i 14 Section Chiet. ;
l I !
15 l0 Anu your Section Chier was fir. Schaerrer? .
I E 16 !A Yes. ?
17 lQ i
Anu lir. Warnick wab Mr. Schaetter'u superior in the 4
18 i line? !
l 1 19 iA Yeu. j
, 5 l i j 20 IQ Anu olo Mr. Warnick, who is in charyo or the Ottice of 21 Special Cabes --
let rae strike that. l 22 1 believe you testitico in yout January testimony 23 that 11r. Warnick aukea you to evaluate the Consumers' !
24 ; plant soon arter the lotnution of the Orlice or Special lxlnyette Hurldung Y W '
MIO %rthu rstern liv .
Snote MO 962 11?6 S,,,,,. f ,
Ikttmt, \lochigan 1R220 Farminet<>n llolls \inchigan 13018
. 115 i
1 Cases, anu flRC-16 is that evaluatiary is tnat correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Dia NBC-16 and the opinions ano statements as put -- set 4 forth in NRC-16 represent your best proteunional 5 judgment as ot July or 19827 6 iA Okay. Let me -- they are my best protecalonal Juagment, 7 j out also bear in mino that there was also some input 8 trom some or the other Inspectors to this ducument. I l
9 i was the author ot IL, but, you know, I was tabulating 10 what other inspectorb, as well as myselt, who had 11 expertise in bouc ot tne inter-disciplinary areat 12 suppiled me.
I 13 0 Diu you disagrce witn any ot the statements as set torth 14 in tiHC-167 15 !A Ho.
I !
16 [Q Dio you agree with all the opinions set tortn in NRC-16?
17 A Well, I was tne author or the cocument. I agree with l l
18 wnat's here.
l 4
19 l0 Ano du you stand by that occuuent toaay?
[
20 lA g Yec.
h 9
21 l Q I believe you also testitieu in January that there were 22 other evaluationL that had gone on during this time 23 periou, naLiely '.he Summer 01 1982, in which the ottice y 24 of Special Caces tocused attention on Hidland ano :
)
las od ReporIing Senice 3,y, \ ,,,,z ,, ,,,,,n g, 1.afa)ette Hwidine Swre rao 9 6 2 ' l l *~ 6 Swt< 2:'I IWtrmt, \fichigan 182]r, Farrnineton lisll<, \lichigan 18'bi'i
. 116 1 recommenoco specific actions that shoulo be taken. Do 2 you recall that testimony?
3 A Let's see. This was Summer et '82. Okay. Go back.
4 ! That there were otner evaluations --
5 ;O Ano recommenuations oy the Office of Special Cases.
6 ,A Oh, we -- well --
}
7 :Q I can provice you with oocuments. I'm just trying to U speak of it so it you'a like to look at the document to 9 ; terresn your recollection.
i 10 There were recommenostions that we waae in that regaro.
lA 11 11 you haa the docuaont, it would help it I looked at 12 it.
, i
(
13 O Let me show you douuments that had been previously 14 markea at NEC-20 anu NRC-19. I'o ask you to review i i
15 l i
those occuuents tot a moment and 11 you're in neco or
! l 16 l any otherb I' ve got plenty mor e. j i .
I 17 ;A Okay. thebe are the -- I was naving a naru time j l 8 lb unuerbtanuing as to dic we write this or dic Warnick j 19 write to Keppler with the inrormation. Anu there were l 3
' 5 20 several of these -- it seeued to me like there were l 21 several of these cocuments Iloating around, you know, !
i 22 cover letters botny attachuu to the information supplied 1
23 frou. ie 24 C Ana coeu hRC-19 ana HRC-20 retresh your recollection lafayette lhald n.e W min %rthuevern flu .
Sente M o 962*III6 %re .'. o Iktroit, \bchigan M22t> Farmineron lidh. \lochrean Mol8
117
- i 1 l th at the Otfice of Special Cases met and recommenced 2 specific action that shoulu be taken with regard to 3 Hiuland?
4 A Yes, we dia.
5 ,O And diu this specitic action have anytning to co with j
6 l the accicent at Three Mlle Islano?
7 ;A Ho.
8 Q insteau, what was the action based on, or 9 ,
recommendations basco on rather?
10 MS. NEERING: Objection. Askeo ano anhwered; 11 covereo in uetail in January.
12 A Okay.
13 BY HS. RICL:
14 ;O Was it casco on your evaluation of H1dland?
I These recomuendationu were bosec on, I woulo 11Ru to 15 A i
16 l characterize it as our evaluation of the situation at l l
- l 17 H101dnd, uut what we telt would be necessary to endure l
I i
16 ! that the quality that we expecteu out ot the -
i i
19 f construction ot the M161ano plant was, indeeo, f i , ;
20 Ancorporateo into the plant. l 21 Q Ali right. Anu 1 believe in January you also testatied i 22 that tnerc wab a conutruction completion plan that was 23 propouca by Consumers Fower ana I think you auuressed k
j 24 Souc -- to the CCP this uornitig. Anu 1 believe you j
- f. u : d ifeporting Sert ice ,
infayne Hwidine ,, ,,,, y sisite 630 9 f) 2 1 I i f) Sta te 2. 't Iktroit. \1ochtenn 18:26 Farmington Hoth, \lahigan IMH's
?
. 118
- t 1 adoreused come issues related to the CCP this morning, ,
a 2 anc other NRC actions, besious the CCP, such as hundred 3 percent re-inspection ot piping of the work permit 4 ,
system. Now, I'm just trying to ref resh your 5 l recollection as to some at the Nhc entorcement action 1
6 i that occurred af ter the Suoner or '82.
t t
7 l Do you recall tnose?
i 8 ' A Do I recall what?
i i
9 Q Let me rephrase my question. lu it correct enat i
10 Consumeru Power proposed anc the NHC ultimately approved 11 h construction coupletion program that the NRC required i 8 12 to have a hunoreu percent re-inspection contained within ;
l 13 that prograu? f 1
l 14 lA i
They -- au I rememDer the program, they would ultimately 15 involve somewhere in the line of hunored percent l 3
i 16 l inspection or the piping systeau. !!owever, there was .
g 17 ! sone claritiers regaroing pieceu or pipe tnat were baro !
18 to get to. Okay. So, you know, there was some
, i 19 1 qua11 tiers on tne program. It required a detailed j i
20 re-inspection or the plant, l d i 21 Q Anu this hunoreu percent re-inspection or detalAeu i 22 re-inspection, ac you gust descriocu, was required by 23 tne URC, was it not? i 24 A Yeu. ,
- 1
"' N5 $0 Nrlhkf%Irfn llH f IAfa)!!!! IkId:nf 962 1176 saare tw > swie so Ibetraut, \lochi, tan m:26 Farmington lirII<, \luhigan thni8
. 119 1 Q Ano was that requirement for a hunored percent or 2 cetalleo re-inupection program in any way relateu to the 3 Three Illic Island accident *t 4 A No. ,
I b ;Q Ano were the other aspects or the construction 6 l completion program, such as the inoepenaent third party 7 i overview, at all relateo to the accioent at Three Mile 8 Island?
9 A Ho. Although, you know, you've centioneo Three hile 4
10 ; Isicnu, it definitely brougnt awareness to the ,
11 , inspectors as to the importance of their Job. You know, 12 there was an attitude that many hao expressed that they 13 ulcn't have an awareness bei. ore, but it certainly aooea l
l 14 euphauis that, in other woroc, you say why are you !
lb f sometimes requirin9 auch rigory in construction of a l l
16 plant, ano it brought to mino exactly wny you expect
[
- e i 17 rigor to a plant. But the level or acceptables woulu j
[
u !
16 L not have been altereo it, thcre haa not been a Three Mile !
E i t c 19 Islano. I mean, there was a Tnree Mlle Islanu ano it li l 20 ; crought that much acceo importance to what the j 21 Inupectors oo. l 22 Q In reLponse to a question by Mr. Draker at tne very eno 23 j ot your (cut 2 cony in Janucry, you utateo that you had !
24 never recouucnoou that the construction -- never hso I.nthyrne llaniding I' " ~ Min %rthu nterr fin a
har MO 9b2 I!?6 %rr 2 a Iktemt, \fuhutan IR22t> Farmneton llalls. \ldrean tson
- 120 i :
1 recoumenced that the construction permit at Mialano be 2 pulleo, out you also noted that there were berore 3 certain conoitions that must be compliec with betore an f
4 operating license would have been issued. What S conoitions were you reterring to?
6 A Well, there were many. Basically that the conuitionc 7 are that the plant was built in a mannur tnLt wds a b quality construction, a quality being ocfined that a 9 ! setety relateo systeu would indeco be able to pertoru as 10 designed curing the many aitterent types et accidents i
11 that have ocen proposed that could nappen to the plant. !
I 12 o Web coupiction or the unoerpinning one or those j 8
L 13 conaitions? l l
14 A Yes. i j 1
15 0 Ano let ac show you aguan a uocument I snowco you in i 16 l January, wnicn au unc-124. Ano I'll auk you now it this i
- 17 l cocuuent anu the recocuendation containeu therein 4 1 1 l
18 reprcuenteu -- was oaceu on your uc6t protesuional ,
19 ,
juuguent as oL the tiut? ,
e
'0 A Yes, it is.
l l 5
21 Q Finully, let Le show you a cucument tnut wab prooucco l
< 22 trom your illes in January that we receiveu acautame in 23 the intet1L, out let Lo Larut have the Court heporter 24 I mork it.
I' "# I" 3ullo %rthuearrn flu. .
l.afyette Hwidine h mte M o 962.)]76 gr,. g;o IWt vit, \fwhien M226 Farmington Ihlis, \forhican ib n k
I
. l
. 121 I
1 (Exhloit NRC-15 51 Hemorandum and Order 2 aatea 9-13-83.)
3 MS. RICOs back on the recoro now.
4 BY MS. h1CE:
5 ; O Hr. Cous, woulo you paeute luentity this cocument for 6 l the recoru?
7 A Well, it' u o Heuvr anua ano Oruct pertolnin9 to the 1
8 l ma t t.e r 6 or ConsuuerL Power. How elce ao I call it?
9 j Dated September 13 tn,1983. 18 that enough?
10 Q Sure. As a noted, tnis cocument came trou your 111eb I I
11 , here anu you prouuceu it here at yhtee M'ile Islano. Do l t
i 12 you recall sociny thiu occuraent -- ;
13 A Yt:U. i 14 lQ i
at aoout the tiroe it wab issueu?
4 l I 15 Yes.
lA i
16 hQ It I coulo reter you to itou number tive on the secono !
f 17 j page, it says the tencency or conagement prior to f
'i (
16 Octooer 1960 to expeau an inorolhate aucunt ot er r or t l l !
19 attempting to blaue eitner the NRC or Intervenors tor l;
s t 20 celayc in the project.. Diu you belicyc that as or -
E 21 September 1984, wnon thic accuucnt web written, tnat the
- 22 NRC wab to blanu lor tne uclays at the Niclona project?
23 A 1 con' t Dulieve that we were. l t
24 hQ Dio you ever beAleve that tne NRC wuu to b1wac tor the u od N! Porting Sertice yg,, ,,,, , , , , , , , ,
I.afayrtte lksidene
.%ir egg,j 962 1176 3,,a,. A . ,
fictrort. \lochuran IR:.% Formungton fiells. \fodaron 18'ul4
.' 122 I
1 celuys at the Miolano project?
2 A I'll put it to you like th4c In some instances we may 3 have been causes or ceAays, but I certainly can't say 4 4 that we're binacs of uelay. Because the rules as to the i
5 design criterin uno so forth to uulio the plant are i
6 known, and Irow that stanupoint we f eel that the i
7 ! Licensee is aware or what -- that tne Licensee ic aware 6 ,
of what the requirements are to builo the plant, anc it 1
9 i the Licensee oues not builu the plant acccraingly, we i
10 j invoke stop oroers or things like this or the Licensee i
11 I cues it, for inctance, or whatever. While I say the HitC 12 may ou the cause, but I certainly can' t cay that we' re 13 the Diane.
14 Q In the sense of the NitC was ever the csuse of the celay j
! l lb l of the 111oland project, diu you believe that the delay k i
16 j was Justifico? I j . !
17 gA Certainly. In Loct, we're quite obligatea that whenever l i
a l 1 18 .
these things happen to be able to detenu our action. '
19 l0 Who do you oclieve is responsible lor, to blaae tor the g 4
I I 20 oeioys et tne Mialano pro]ect? ;
l' i 21 HS. NEERING: Objection. Anbiguous. I l
i 22 A Sv what do we do about that?
l l 23 MR. JENSEU: You can answer. You can go }
l ,
l 24 l aheau.
t l
Infaytte Hwidene
'"# U "'" f ' Mio \orthuestern llu ,
S,;,,, rao 962 117b Swic :.n lktroot. \fuhipn M22t> Farmmere llalls, \lahican moS l
123
~
< t ,
' I l
l ,
1 BY llS. HICE: <
l 2 lQ
! 1r you unuerstano the question. '
3 A Yeah.
4 Q Let we ask anotner question maybe.
i 6
l Ab between the NHC anu Consuucru Power, who was 6 recponu1ble for the oclays at faldlanc?
7 A It that's two options, then it woulu be Consumers Power.
8 Consuucru Power had the licenue. Now, they hau hired 9 i Dechtel to, you know, construct their plant anu B 6 W 10 also to supply the NSSL equipuent. 14ow , these companies 11 4 may have caused the actual loplementation ot problems at i
12 the plant, but utill tne Licensco, which lu Consumeru, 13 they're the bact30er, 11 you will. So when you talk 14 l about who is it to olane, well, there were uany tnooriec j i !
15 I that would be involveu; that iu it Consuocru because 16 they don' t control becntel; 1s it because Dechtel didn't l
[ . -
17 { co good work; IL it the cratta because they d1un't put f a i 18 [ in nice looking wells, you know. And tron that point --
?
{
i 19 ! well, I guess I don' t reel equippeu to point the tinger !
Il !;
20 in that lignt other than tnrough the regulatory side of 3
21 the nouce being tnat Consumern happens to have the i 22 license anu that's wno we dec1 witn. j 23 11 3 . RICC: All rignt. I have no tuttner 24 questions to you or hopetully ever, f I' I~ "#
Infyene Iktdung win %rthenern Ha -
, hae 6Jo 962.]176 kn., 2;o l
1%t. \lichipn m226 Farmtneton HJh. \1erhigan mol's
124 1
, i 1
1
!, HS. NEERING: I juut have a couple so why 2 don't we 90 aheac and auk them now.
3 A No. I need a break.
4 (Briet recess taken.)
5 RECROSS EXAMINATION 6 BY HS. IEERII;G :
'7 Q Going back to this last cocument, h'HC-15 5 , it indicates --
8 well, it's signed by Charles Bechhoefer. ,
I 9 iA Yes. l 1
t 10 Q Dio you have any input into this howoranous anc Order?
11 'A Hot that I woulo know or. Okay. 1;ow , it aay have been 12 in a torm that he hau been sitting there listing to the 1 i ?
13 Hearing, he haa been reviewing documents that I hao '
1 14 ! generateu, no scom that stanopoint I'd have some input !
15 ; HR. MULLlus: Oft the reccro.
l I 16 (brict oiscusulon holo ott the recoro.) l 17 '!! US. HICE: Back on the record. !
k 18 ; HR. HOLLIt:S I would just line to point out 19 that thic is, in errect, a judicial opinion by the ;
s '
i 20 l Atomic Sarety anu Licensing Boaro which was issuco in l l
21 the cource ol their busineus or their procedures or i
i 22 licensing tr e plant. Tney are hearing issues to license i
23 the plant. !
24 . CY (15. IE CRII;G :
i
I' " ' " # Min \orthu estern liu .
1.nfa)ette limidone Swtere) 962 11?b Swir 2.n Iktroit, \la hieart 48220 Farmington lidh. \lahigan IMm
= w -r v w * --
. 125 1 'O Going to NRC-124, which is the uen161 of tull license 2 tor the Hidlanc site --
3 A Okay. Thank you.
4 Q -- is it true that this license woulc have been tor the --
5 -
a license to receive, luspect, possess, store and 6 package nuclear naterials, as states in the Iltut 7 paragraph?
6 A Yes. This ic strictly -- this in a non-use ut the 9 ! physometer or nuclebt tuel, only tot tue storase anu 10 ,
possession of it on site, 11 Q Okay. Going oack to one or the exhibits that I showeo 12 you carlier touay, it's -- ,
a 13 A 1 hupu you people Know whoue is whoso. e 14 'Q lt's D-4750.
l 15 l Okay. Juut going back tur a tew minutes to the ;
. f 16 { topic regaruing your requent tor aucitional help at the 17 site. j 16 N Does item two on the secono page or -- excuse me, I h
19 it era tour on the secono page inoicate that the Resicent l
I !
20 l Inspector eut1 mates about 'one unird of time 10 cevotec
'j 21 to actual inspection, another tnira devoteu to 22 conversations with peopic on cite, anu the rest of the 23 tiRU AS dCVoted to reading PJail, WIiting IOportb, ;
24 taiking on the phone. .
l.nfy rtw Hiddrne I M lU k 'hVr o m I!"
Sww go 962 1176 .% o :. o Intnnt. 11ochienn IIC.% fa rm'"t!<* Ildh. \l>< hita n IM'I L ,
-- - - . . _ _ m - . . , _ __ . _ . , ,
. 126 l
1 fA Okay. What was your question on that again? ,
I 2 'Q Does that accurately represent the -- your allocation of 3 time curing tue 1980 time periou?
4 A Well, it kinc or properAy docc. The thing is that what 5 uoes one entra ut the time mean? Is that based on \
6 strictly a torty nour workweek or more? That was baseu 7 on more. '
8 And also, bear in aino, tnat I state that 1 --
I e
9 let's see, one thiru of the time is oevoteo to 10 converuations with people on the site. Okay. The i
11 conversativn with people on the site woulu be part of an 12 inupection ettort. So, I think that Mr. Grener's was d I.
13 perhaps pulling out tne one thiro where he was narrowly 1
14 ; oclining an inspection errort into perhapu going anc 1
15 i looking at, you know, a specitic piping systeta with j i
16 specitic things in ulna. !
i 17 ,
Dear in mino,
you know, we'd alreacy seen one or l f :
J 10 the other exnibits whien wab the attitude that the i i !
e 19 l Resident Inspectors will openly becoues the eyes and l
f <
1 20 i ears of the NRC. So it's a net result. So you woula l'
l 21 spenc time in something other than a oirectou efrort, it !
l 22 you -- pernape following your nose wculo be a gooo way l
I 23 of classitying that. l 24 Weald all or the Rusioent Incpectorc De coing that type lQ i
l lxfayerre Hwidmx "0 I'"" N MIo %rshn estern II . .
.%rr MO 962 1I?6 .%'. ;;n
\ Farmenere.n littl<, \lahigan sk'H R IWerar, \tahisan t822n t
127 i.
1 or thing? f 2 A Yec. Ana, in tact, these nunbers are pretty -- at the 3 ti tue , and they're probably still reasonably accurate 4 inoicate, that about two thirob of the Inspectors' time S is involveu in activities tDct 4re close to inspection 6 ettort. Basically it's eudier to talk wnst ne oces with 7 ! his other tisne. Aoout a thiru ot bib time is doing the 1
8 auialnistr ative chor es. Okay? Writing, accounting ano 9 so totth.
4 10 i O Ano then turning to Exnibit D-4749, which is a l l
11 hanawritten merso or yourb. l l
12 A That wab tne ruemo.
f i
13 Q Ycan. That we osteo approxiustely 1980 carlier touay. <
l 14 You indicate on page tour uncer section three that onc 15 [ or the most uifttcult worxicaos for the Resident !
t i,
16 1 Inspector to circumvent lu the acuinistrative lond. ,
i
- j 17 !A Yes. -
I i lu {Q t
And I'll quoto Lurther it says: Tu t accinistrative
.i l
19 ! load keeps coming at a constant rete whether the s
20 Inspector ab there or not.'" [;
]a
( i 21 A Okay. ) l 1
22 Q Diu that continue througnout your time spent at Midland?
23 I
- A It's Ltill continuing throughout my tiue spent at Three l 24 I;11e lulonu.
Iss(sy rttr flauldeng Min %rt'on es:rrn llo ,
$saae nja 4 6 2 1 I s' 6 brar * .'. '
- lacer, a. \tahigan 1822h Formonenm flolls. \l>< h ocan 18414
128 I
1 IO Uas that one at the tactors that you were referring to 2 when you indicatou that you neeceo uorc help at the 3 , site?
i 4 A That was one or the tactors. In other Worus, tne paper 5 macnine -- I've always cluimec that 11 you took a week 6 ott, it speedeu up because you weren't there. But you 7 woulo have call coulng in that neeued sorting still, you 6 know, whether you were -- if you workeo e;nly two wecka 9 on an inspection and you were going to write one ever3 t
10 ! thirty cays anu you took two weeks vacation, yc's still 11 nua to write a report, you know. So that's 6 conttant, 12 that's a given. And ir there's nobouy there to take g
, I 13 care of the acuinistrative chores on a day-to-o ;y bauls, 14 ! tnen it btacks up. Ano then when it stacks up you're ,
15 behino, wheterer time you may have t. :en of f, pluu then l
16 : the machine keeps rolling and you still have the :
I 17 h acuinistrative chores ascociateo with the time that you !
lI 10 ; were tnere. So it creates quite an impact it you uun't l
19 , huvu comebocy tnat can sort the admir,1 strate chores
, t 20 wnile you' re there -- I uean wn11e you' re away. ;
21 Q Regarding the construction coupletion plan and the one i 22 hunureu percent re-inspection or the piping system, was 23 there any casagreement among Inspectors to the NRC
{
l 24 regaruing whether that one hunored percent re-inspection i
- Infyrtre Hwidme
- "# 3 min %nhurstern flu Swie Mo 462 117b . soar, xn l
Iktrott. \fichisan 48:20 Farnuneron iblis. 11ahucan mnS
. 129
- i i
1 1 i was necessary, that you recall?
2 A Not that I recall or the Inspectors.
3 Q Do you recall Hon Garunct stating tnat he thought that 4 .
one hunorea percent re-inupection was not necessary?
5 - A No. I don't recall him saying that.
6 Q Okay.
i 7 A Other than -- now, we cio discuss about those piping 8 systems enat you would hhve a ditticult time having 9 accous to, which was, you know, the rebate, 11 you nave 10 piping burico insice ot concretc that to force the 11 Licensee to oig out piping trom underneath concrete, you 12 may be causing more ci a Jeoparoy than you >y the i
13 piping ocing tnere. It you can ensure tne paping has i
14 .
been installed properAy up to, say, the concrete wall l
15 anu on ene other ulce it'u also 9000 piping, then you .
i !
16 l can uake a resonable engineering judgment saying that it (
l f 17 prouably is guou piping tnrough tne wall ano then, you
[
f !
10 [ nnow, tempering that with what is the engineering !
! l 19 function or the technical function of the piping. Now, 20 j we had those type et oiscuusions, but 1 con't -- 1 con't 21 recall Ron Gardner saying to take a uampling, if tnat's 22 whst you're alluding to.
23 Q Okay.
t .
24 qA lic Day nGVe, thuugh, but 1 Just -- l 4 :
"* I' "# '"'"
In(vrtre ikidene Min %rt! Farmintim Il<lh. \luchiean Ikol'l
. 130 t
l 'Q Ms. Rice acKeo you with regaru to the SALP reports wnen 2 did the categories one through turec come into being.
3 Wasn't it true that SALP-Il is the titut report that had i
4 ut111zeu that type et evaluation procesh?
5 :A Well, wuen you say evaluation proceus, we changeu it to, 6 i you know, categories one, two, three or Roman Numeral 7 one, two three. The other one tnat was betore that had 8 a classitication ot -- boy, I don' t know it it ac l., b, 9 C or one througn ten. Tnere nah always been o graulent l t
10 <
type classification. That may have been the first one l'
11 [
tor Miciano thct useo the Poaan numeral one, two, ano j i ;
12 three as the criteria ac cerineu. You know, without !
i 13 looking at the SALP-I I can' t remen.uer what l 1
14 clousatications we useo there, but there was a !
, i i
15 ,
clouuitication anu a gracient, j s l 16 O okay. When yvu were being guestioneo earlier about the i 17 a acuinistration ouiluing, Just to clurity this: Dic you l l i 18 ueen the Lettling of the grado beam or the settling of 19 the building? You continuco to reter to it ac the
( '
20 j auministration builuing settilny, and 1 just wanted to 21 clear tnat up on the recora. Wasn't it, in tact, tne I i 22 grade bean?
23 A It was prcbculy tne graue ucma. Let'c sce, now shoulo I l 24 co that?
f s
Infyrtie Hwidine
' MN %rth r~ tern li..
%,re rum 962 11?6 Suun s o inerms, \ldiran M .4> Farmnenm flulls \lu hican IPv
r 131 I
1 0 I'm uorry. I uon' t have a cocument.
2 A Yeah. Yeah, th a t ' s --
3 hell, bottleuent at the grade beam woulu cause a 4 , settlement of the auuinistration building. Now, the i.
5 j aaministruticn builuing went aheaa anu was t'abricated 6 sitting on, you know, coils and supports that were prone 1
7 to settlement. So, you know, by ssying the O acuinistration oulloing, that's not all that wrong, I 9 i con' t believe. becauue the 's uiluing is there.
I 10 'Q But wou the bulloing actua21y tnere when the grace ceam i
11 , settled or was it just the roundation that settled?
12 A The bulloing was probably -- was not there at the time I
13 that it settleu that I can recall, but later on the 14 ! ouiloing was built on the grade behu that w&L alreacy i i 15 l known to have been cettling. I tnink that's wnst one of 10 che issues web.
I
- 17 'O hau enere ruture settlement then arter the gruue beau i
18 I web discovered ano correcteu? .
I !
19 A I can' t answer that because 1 can' t really know.
20 lQ Okay. When we were uiscuc' sing your daily writingu I
I 21 regarding wnut you haa cone at the site, an entry trou --
22 let's see, I believe it was Dececuer 4tn inu1 cates --
23 A OAay. Now whlen?
l 24 y It's bxnioit D-4754. ;
l
f "# "
. Win %rthursrern Iba .
1.afa)rtre Hwidenc Suite hjo 962 1176 Swn :h IWtnis, \hchigan W:n Farrnmeron Ihlh. \behigan m01't
-. m
, 132 l' l 1
1 lAi Le t . ca: rino it. l 2 0 It's D-4753 on page 000, i
3 lA i
Okay.
4 Q Wnece you inoicate: "June 1978 tirst note ot excess 5
settlenent." I uun' t mean to Delabor the point but at 6 is an important point. So l'c like you to reter back to 7 . NRC-68, whicn is the report that Gallagher ano Phillips 1
8 put together on the investigation of the ciobel i
9 f generator cuiluing. j 10 !A Okay.
11 jg Anu it you'll turn to -- l 1 (
12 'A Are these yourc? l t
'13 0 Yeah. I 14 <A Okay. 3 1 1 15 ; Q 11 you'll turn to pays 917001066. 1 t
' l 16 A Wnat were tne laut tour uigits? ]
l 1 17
[Q 1066. It inu1 cates in the bottom paragraph entitieu (
18 luencirication anu reporting ot oieuel generator 19 I builcing settlement. Coula you just briefly review that l 1
^
l .
20 first paragrapn? j 21 A Okay. Surveys to establish a base line elevation f or [
22 the DGD were coupletco by Dechtel on May 9th,1978. The 23 result or these surveyu, tne Chiet or Survey parties .
24 notea what he conuicerec to be unusuai settlement. lie {
lafyrtte Hasidsne
- I' "# MIO %rthuntern IIn< >
kartes 962 1176 here 2 n JWtrmt, \fwhigan 4R22n Farmmerwr lidis, Alukigan wik
=,
133 1 anoicateo tnat tron his experience ne would nave 2 expected about one cignth inch settlement; the July 22 3 data shows a uirierential settlauent between various 4 locations ranging trom one quarter to a maximum or one 5 ; ano tive eightns. he promptly instructeu his survey I
6 i personnel to re-survey to determine whether the cuts was 7 4 accurate. The re-survoy confirmed the accuracy or une 8 ! survey data. Cniet of Survey reported the survey 9 resulth to the Bechtel Leau Civil Fielu Engineer.
10 !O Does that retrebh your recollection that the actual 11 ! determination of the excess settlement was mace in July 1
12 ot 1978?
I 13 A Not really. Tne original -- or the tirst hentonce et i 14 ; that paragraph says the survey to cutablish a base lanc
! 15 elevation Lor tne DGB were completeo uy Bechtel on May
)
i 1 16 i tho 9th or 197U ano at that tiue that thc Chier of l * <
17 j survey's parties wuc suspleious tnat there wac acre j Anu then this I 18 uc ttl ercent than what he nac anticipateu.
i f 19 >
snowc that sixty days later that he went in ano dio a i
20 I reconrirmation ano establishua in July tnut, indeed, als l
21 suspicions were right. Now, I useo the date of Jur.e
, 22 1978, which lu still in the saue basic ballpurk ano 23 periou ot time. So, it anything, I woulu bay that it i i ,
24 woulo nave been establisheo in May that there was i
l I
l fyrste Hauldune 3'R IU % 't h rvert. II'<
si,ae nyo 462 1II6 3.su.- L ,
Ikarat. \lwhsgan +9226 Farmincem 11,111 \lerhiro IWh';
-134 l l 1 ! perhapu something wrong with the bullaing. Anu then 2 j recontirmeo oy tne -- alter the sixty day survey.
i 3 lQ Whht lu your unourstancing or surveys to establish a 4
f boue line elevation?
5 A Hy understanuing?
6 ;C Mouning?
7 A At that point in time when it says that thcy were 8 completeo on lley 9th, 1978 what actually tu completeo? -
9 O Are Dunc!curks in place, are -- have readingu been 10 , taken?
11 I A 0xay. This is wnen he'c going to establisn a baue line 12 that he'e taken on Mey the 9th. Ilow, he -- I can't say 13 -
tor sure on tnis particular builcing, because I wasn't 14 reviewing tue cata, but it's quite usual tot other i e
1S ! surveys to be taken while they' re estaclishing the i d !
16 5 Du11oing. In other woros, it goes in with decicing as i i
17 j to where to place the builcing. Ana 1 guess I wou t
{i 18 l relying on his wordL that says the results or thebe f; 19 i survey -- Calet of Survey parties noted tnere unusuul i 20 l bettleaent.
. I
- l i i 21 Something in thebe wurab is telling zue that he may
( 22 have hau 11: had log what the origins 1 seating was when i
23 bc poureu nis concrete. Ano that now ne went into J 24 g eGtaullbh his cage line alter probably a sixty cay or a
"? "
I.nfayerie Huuldanc MMIO %rthurstern llu:
% e rao 4621II6 kor 2;u lutrms, thchigan 182:rs Farminatun Ihlb. \luinen ISU:M
, 135
- 'l l'
1 tnirty any periou and he says, goe whiz, this looks 2 souewhat stranger than what I woulu have anticipated.
3 But I wouldn't expect him to get all that upset by it 4
either, because he knows he's going to take another i
5 measurement some sixty cays later wriich will cont'irm his 6 suupiscions.
7 !Q So uixty cays after the Hay 9th?
i 8 'A Yeah. Which he dio. Or no -- yeah, It's sixty cays, 9 l give or take a tao; anyway a perloo or time arterwarco. ,
10 ,
Anu that is compatible with the surveying program that 11 was on the site that, you know, tney would survey --
f 2
12 deciou wnere to cet rooters uno elevations ano things l 13 line thic, pour tne concrete or wnatever neeceu to be i l
14 , done that,was in the 11elo of construction, after a I
i 15 pertou or time go in ano set a bace line, rererence (
i i t 4 16 point anu then monitor it for a period or tile C
- i 17 ; arterwaros. ft E
k i 16 ;
O So at that point in time, in May oi 1970, they would ;
i
- 19 ,
have ueen taking readinge every sixty cays, that was the I i
I 20 norual course?
i !
i l
l 21 A Well, no. You go -- clo I write that in here; sixty l .
t 22 days? Ninety. It goes sixty days arterwares ano alter 23 you set your base line, anu then as I remouuer the 24 progrma -- und my note may be coutwhat in error, but it !
l I' " ' " # ~ ' ' 3reto %rthe,rern liv r l 1.n(vrote Huildme 0De 'S$?D %y h) l built b}il IWtrat, \lahigan W .% Farmmet-n Ildh \luhican ImIP j
t _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .
136 1 I remenicer right that sort of something like every 2 ninety cays, ano then through a year, ano then once a 3 year or six nionths uiterwarcs. It's a regular program.
I 4 !Q Ic thet conmon praccice in the inoustry?
4 5 iA Sure. Well, in the nuclear incustries tot builoing 6 i huelcar plantu.
i 7 ,
its. NEERIt<G: I have no further questions.
i 8 HS. RICE: Anu I'm pienseo to say that's the 9 ! enu.
I 10 l FIR . J ENSEll: Very 9000.
i 11 - - -
12 (Whereupon the ceposition was concluceo.)
13 1
14 i
- I 15 l WITHLSS SIGNATURE PAGE ,
l I 16 l 1 l
17 j fl '
18 J
19 ; .................................... ;
RONALD J. COOK i
20 i l l
21 Subscribec ano sworn to before me this ..... Uay or ........, ...;...A.D.
t 22 23 j Nota ry l'ub11c., .......... Coun ty , !!ienigan 24 I;y Coma i 6 b i o n L x p :. r e u : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
E "'" # ' '
3 thin %cthurstern Hu .
l.nfaytre Buridme har tJa 962 1 iib .% ave 2:<>
Detrmt, Whican m2:n Farmmerem flills. W hica,> m#:
1 1
, i
. 137 h
I i 1
STATE Ol' HICil1GAN )
2 ) sb.
COUNTY OF WAYNE )
3 I, lloilis II. Harriman, Notary Public 4
' witnin una ror the County ot Wayne, state of hichigan, do hereb/
5 i i
p certity that the witness whose attacheu deposition was taken l 6
- berore ue in the acove-entitleo matter was by ne culy sworn to j 7
l tell the truth, une wnole truth, uno notning out the truth in l
8 l
the cauue aforebaiu; that the tectitaony contained in the said g I
9 >
ceposit2on then given by baid witness vau Dy me recoroco i 10 l l stenographically in the presence or said witness, and j 11 , a
- atterwarus transcribed unoer my personal supervicion. ;
12 Tne attacned au a true anu accurate transcript or the 13 '
4 proceedings as retlected in lay Ltenograpnic notes taken.
14 I tutthur certiry that I am not 15 s connecteu by bloou or carriage witn ariy ot the parties or their 16 -
i attorneys, ano that I ma not an eraploy ee ot ,elther et thcu, ;
17 y i not r2nancially interestea in the uction, l8 !
Ill WITHEES WHEREOF, I have hereuntu ,
l 's ,
i set my hanu at Detroit, Michigan, County or Wayne, State l 20 j l or Micnigan, this 28th day ot June, 1985.
l 21 ]
l
! h. . . . . . . N. . .
- h. . . .'.N. . . . ]. . .d.4.L.,. . . . . ,
23 liOLLJS M. IJARRlHAN, CP, RPR, CSR-2090-County of Wayne, State et Michigan 24 Hy Conuicslon Expires: 3-19-86 ,
1.u:od Reporting Sett ice , ,, y l 14ryrve Hwidme swer sm 962 1176 .w u J. ?
Iktrmt.' \lichstan 2226 Farmmeron Hills. Whigan sk< th L _ ,-----._____-------- h