ML20153A944
| ML20153A944 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 11/16/1978 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 7811290018 | |
| Download: ML20153A944 (93) | |
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N'U C1.EA R R : G U L'A T O R Y C O M M I S S I O N' -
e IN THE MATTER OF:
J PUBLIC MEETING DISCUSSION OF_ EXPORT-IMPORT LICENSING REVIEW PROCEDURES /
1 GENERAL' ADMIN MEETING (see 10/11 OGC memo & SECY-78-455) l P, lace. -Washington, D.C.
Octe -
Thursday, 16 November 1978 Peses 1-92 7e.cnen.:
(202)347 3700 ACE FFDERAL Fl?OR235,OfC.
Cf.cial Repor.en m Ner n C::i-ci Smeer 7811290O/82 weeins:en. c.c. :ccc1 NAT.CNWlOE COVYRACi :: Al!.Y N
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D-1 DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on 16 11ovember 1978 in the Commission's offices at 1717 H 5treet, N. W., Wasnington, D. C.
The 1
meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
Th'is transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
The transcript is intended solely "for general informa'tional purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or infor.nal record of decision of the matters discussed.
Expressions. of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAA' REGULATORY COMMISSION j
3 PUBLIC MEETING 4
i DISCUSSION OF EXPORT-IMPORT LICENSING REVIEW PROCEDURES /
l 5
GENERAL ADMIN MEETING 6
(see 10/11 OGC memo & SECY-78-455) 7 Room 1130 8
1717 H Street, N. W.
Washington, D.
C..
9 i
Thursday, 16 November 1978 l
10 l
The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m.
l 11 BEFORE:
12 DR. JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Chairman
(
13 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 14 RICHARD T.-KENNEDY, Commissioner 15 PETER A. BRADFORD, Commissioner 16 l J JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner
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4 18 19 20 l
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2 tape 1 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let us get started.
david 1 Commissioner Gilinsky will be along in a moment.
The j
Commission deals this af ternoon with some procedural 5
matters.
For some time it's been my hope that we would 6
have a meeting and dicsuss our various ways of doing 7
things.
8 There are places in the way that we handle the 9
paper amongst the Commission offices that at times at 10 least seems to me to be less than ideal.
And so we have 11 several propositions at hand to discuss.
which were 12 framed with the idea that they might help us to have i
a better understood and perhaps. a little more smoothly 14 l
functioning administrative -- set of administrative 15 sequences among. the Commissioners.
16 l
The primary document that I'm going to try to 17 work from this af ternoon is the paper from Sam entitled 18 "First General Administrative Meeting," one that has j
10 tabs A through' F on it.
Starting down the. tabs I would just note 21 that: some. time ago.I raised the. question.about'.the 22 possibility of the Commission holding administrative 23 meetings.
What I had in mind was that there are an 24
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I don' t propose to stop that because there are I
3 things that are appropriate for us to discuss that way, but 4
on some occasions, it just seemed to me it would be very 5
handy if we had'a regularly scheduled meeting where we 6
would meet and be able to deal with all sorts of little 7
nits and nats that need clearning up, which could be 8
accomplished by the iterative process in me or somebody, 9
I suppose, going around to each Commission office in turn.
10 By the time you made it about three times 11 around the floor, well, you may be getting close to 12 consensus.
But on the other hand, if we just all meet 1
13 here, my impression has been that often a few words to 14 each other duly assembled, we can agree on some alternate 15 language or a new word or take a word out or whatever is 16 necessary and then just vote the thing up or down in place.
So the counsel looked into the matter and 18 said it felt that such meetings would fit reasonably 19 within the language and intent of the Sunshine Act.
They 20 would be open meetings, and they would be scheduled in a 21 regular way and appear on the Commission's schedule.
22 The one place that may be a little awkward is
'3 because some 'of the things that you would want to discuss 24 8969 are Mely M CNe a day or Wo
.co.Focoral Reporters, Iric, 25 l'
or three days ahead of the session.
You wouldn't necessarily I
avid 3 1
list on the agenda a week ahead of time everything that 2
was going to be discusse'd, and I would not want such meetings 3
to be limited to only such things that we anticipated i
a week before and been able to list on the schedule.
We j
4 5
would certainly list the things that one knew and wanted 6
to calk about, but it -would also note that other items 7
as appropriate might come up, and that seemed to be 8
acceptable, again within the framework of the Sunshine 9
Act, particularly I would think in view of the fact that 10 we keep -- if they're public meetings, we're keeping a 11 transcript which really goes beyond the requirements of 12 the Act, 13 It's clear that we're not trying to sneak something 14 by the surveillance provided by the Sunshine Act, and in 15 fact we discussed this sort of meeting at a subcommittee 16 meeting on the Senat2 side where Senator Chiles was 17 examining us amongst other agencies about how we were 18 carrying out the provisions of the Sunshine Act, and I 19 believe that the Senator and his staff indicated that they 20 thought such meetings would be perfectly acceptable.
21 I would like to try that and start scheduling
.22 such meetings.
I'm not sure that we need formally to vote j
23 to.do daat.. It's sort of an agenda thing, but on the 24 other hand, I wouldn't'~do it if'a Commissioner objected.
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It sounds fine.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, let us try it and of l
course as with all of these sorts of things, why the shape 5
and the form that these things will take will develop 6
over time, and as we have some experience, we can then see 7
whether they are as useful as I hope they will be or 8
they just become another time filling thing, in which 9
case we will stop having them.
10 Okay?
11 Tab B suggests that we migh,t have these meetings 12 every two weeks or so and then list the -- the only objection l
13 I have to tab B is thetime allocation which says that the 14 Consissionerswould have 10 mintes; OGC would have 10 minutes; 15 OPE 10 minutes and so on.
And I will just comment, Sam, 16 that I count this an extraordinary piece of optimism 17 on you r part to believe that indeed the meeting time --
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Is it each Commissioner?
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Commissioners, plural.
20 (Laughter.)
21 Be very careful what you do with your two minutes.
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: IthinkthatisasaccurEte as the addition *which led to-addina them up and gettina an i
24 4
hour.
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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, that's a Commission hour, i
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L david 5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would make one serious 2
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comment on that tab, though.
I would also like Congressional I
3 Affairs included on that -list of people, i
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. CHILK:
I think you're right.
MR.
CHAIRNaN HENDRIE:
By George, you're right.
6 We lef t them out.
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
They can take the 15 8
minutes that's left over.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: No, we'll just move up to 10 he 75 minute hour.
That's straightforward.
11 (Laughter.)
12 Indeed, such a meeting gives the various 13 l offices who may have flown requests for action or advice 14 or something at us, gives them a chance to pound the table 1S and say, when are you going to answer our memo of such and 16 such date.
17 And I think that is a useful thing, although 18 I make no commitment that they are going to get the kind 19 of equal time suggested on tab B.
20 MR. CHILK:
I'm not really suggesting, just 21
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pointing out that each of them have information to submit j
22 to you as well as the Commission having information it 23 wants.
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
And I will note with~ regard j
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to agenda that it would be titled something like General j l i l l
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8 david 6 Administrative Meeting on the Commission schedule, and 2
everything that we knew or suspected we might want to I
3 discuss would be listed.
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But as.I say, inevitably there are going to S
be some things that we aren't going to know until sort 6
of the morning of the day of the meeting.
So Sam would 7
attempt do circulate a most up to date agenda a day before 8
to allow people to at least bring in the proper papers 9
and get them out of the files.
10 Now, let rme advance to related subjects which 11 I hoped we could discuss.
I would also ask for some 12 recommendations on procedures which we might agree to that 13 might -- I don ' t know whether " improve" is quite the 14 right word, but let me use it -- improve our handling 15 of export license matters.
16 And the counsel's office provided a memorandum 17 October lith, recommended some procedures and for opinion 18 sampling purposes, attached an issues and options sheet 19 in which you have got to do a multiple choice check, which I thought.was kind of them to keep us from having to do too much deep thinking.
f We could select one from column A and one from 23 column B and come to an answer that way.
Several of us 24
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: 'And some of us found i
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llavid7' none of 'the above.
.CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, two Commissioners said -- l l
3 well, yours' was not entirely none of the above, but j
'4 rather that. you would go about it in a. little dif ferent 5
way, that you would start from the statutory nominal 6
times by.which the Commission was supposed to take action 7
and then pace back from that reasonable times for the 0
initial; consideration for an extension of time and put 9
a mark at that point and admonish the staff to see if' they 10 please couldn't gat the papers to take action on out by 11 that time.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I don't think I'd like 13 to miss what I think was the fundamental point I was 14 trying to make, is that - -and I'm hoping that Jim 15 is. prepared to. speak.- to. it -- and that is that as I 16 view the paper,. it was placing a series of dealines 17 on the Commission ' independent when.the paper. came up.
18 What I was saying is:
I think that we must "19 l
start. with the deadlines on the staf f to get. the paper up to ur.
21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'll vote for that.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And so therefore -- see, 23 when I say that we start and we work back from the statutory l
24 dean he,.so h e m ple, say W 2at H days be h e de I,
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david 8 after'that is'the additional notice time.
2 However, the fundamensal deadline has to be 3
based'on when must the staff get the paper to us.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But that has to relate 5
to when they ge' the --
0 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, that's what I was hoping Jim was prepared to speak to,.but I don't think 7
0 the appropriate way of placing deadlines really is in a j
vacuum, to set the deadlines or when the Commission has l
9 10 to act.
The d3adline we have.to really address is when 11 does the paper come.
12 i
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Well, now wait.
I guess 1
13 I would aa.ne that-that'.s one of the two things, but by 14 the same token,.I would have to say we have got to 15 start exercising some discipline among ourselves, and right 16 now we don't have any, and I must say I believe it unfair I7 to point:our fingers at the staff in this regard because 1
18 we are every bit as. slow and unable to reach conclusions as 1
19 we claim. the staff is; indeed, moreso, because we ought 0
to be able to act much faster than they.
1 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am not trying to say 22 where'any fault lies.
r 23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Oh, I am.
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'25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:- Yes, but I'm not.
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svid9 trying to say is that in establishing _a procedure for 2
our action on these matters,_I think at one stage we have j
4 3
the statutory requirements, and then we have to back off from that and the first deadline we have to lay down 5
is the deadline by which the staff must get us the 6
paper.
7 MR. KELLEY: One factor I wanted --
0 CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let me just say before you 9
go, I quite agree with that.
If we are going to try to 10 establish.some sort of schedule. -
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I agree with it too 12 so long as it doesn't stop there.
-COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And that's why I hoped 14 Jim would be able to address what is a reasonable situation 15 we can work to.
16 MR.
KELLEY2 just wonder about countiny backwards 17 instead of forwards.
To go backwards from the
- line, 18 then you're assuming it's always going to ta'-
c.he i
19 maximum amount'of time.
20 Maybe in the real world that's the we things i
21 are.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE':
You're right.
It may --
l 23 MR. KFLLEY: It's a pretty simple application.
24 It shouldn't take 120 davs.
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COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
It probably won't.
The I
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deadline doesn't have to be governed the norm.
2 MR.
KELLEY: It has a way of becoming the norm.
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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
My impression is that the staff is sufficiently pressed on a number of applications 5
that come along with getting things in order that it's 6
more likely to be the norm 7
gin 7 U
MR. SHEA:
Can I make a few comments on that?
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Please do.
10 MR. SHEA:
On the staff's perception of this.
11 I guess I might-just comment from where I sit processing I2 these cases up to the Commission, export cases, that the 13 basic guidel.4ne*, if you will, or target, deadline, goal, I#
whatever, that I start from is the one in the Nonproliferation
]
15 Act which the cases to be completed by the 16 Commission days.
17
.ie statutory limit that is established
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0 in the Nonproliferation Act.
That is for not onJ.y 19 staff consideration, but the Commission consideration.
At 20 the end of that time, as you recall, we are supposed to 21 l
notify the applicant if we have not completed action, if 22
- the license has not been issued.
l 23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Does that apply --
24 us.Feoval Reporters, inc.
- does that requirement to notify the applicant apply if in 25 fact sometime during-that 60 days we request further
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- I information?
2 MR. SHEA:
There is provision -- I might go i
on to say that there is provision for a further 60 l
4 days of consideration by the Commission essentially 5
automatically under the Act af ter which the president, 6
the State Department can take the application back if 7
they conclude that further delay is unwarranted.
8 But if we have asked questions, that is, 9
the Commission has posed questions to the executive 10 branch before the first 60 days has passed, then we are 11 given an extension of our total 120 day period until the 12 answers have come back from State.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You mean the second 60 14 days doesn't start counting --
15 MR. SHEA:
Doesn't start counting, essentially, 16 until the answers or if there's a hearing, then it's 17 extended.
18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
To come back to my 19 l
question; if we ask those questions before those first 60 l
20 days wherein nornally we would have to notify the 21 applicant, do we then have to notify the applicant if we've i
22 asked those questions, but when the new 60 day period 23 is beginning to run?
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25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Do we?
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davidl2 MR. SHEA:
I' don't believe th'at we have 2
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had a:particular case that I.can think of at this point.
1 3
that.has come.up.with exactly that kind of situation.
We have had cases that have gone beyond the 60 days in I
which questions'have been asked, quite a few of those.
6 But I dori't recall any offhand.
7
' COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Have we notified the 8
-applicant-of this situation?
9 MR. SHEA:
We have notified the applicant of 10 those.
One of the things we'have not done enough of, I 11 think, is to provide followup reports for the applicant, 12 which is al'so called for in the Nonproliferation Act.
I3 It says as appropriate.
It's very generally wofded, and Id some of the cases have gone on well over the 60 days, 15 some over 120 days.
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The reason for my I7 question is that one of the purposes of your Nonproliferation 18 Act is.to be,.as we will recall, is to establish the 19 United-States as a reliable supplier of nuclear materials, 20
- and' that: was one of! the fundamental '. reasons for these
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21' deadlines, to indicate that no longer could one assume that; with impunity ' agencies coulci sit on stuff forever, that applicants could anticipate some clear action within
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tvidl3 this not only to the letter of the law, but as well in its spirit.
l MR. SHEA:
That's right.
Well, the staff certainly takes that very seriously in its processing 5
of cases,- and I believe the Commissioners do also.
1 6
Now, we have had difficulty, I miaht go on I
to say, in meeting that 60 day period.
Now, speaking 8
from the staff's perspective, in the period immediately after the' Nonproliferation Act went into effect, which 10 was in March, this brought into play a number of complexities 11 that were involved in the law that we had to deal with, 12 the law and our subsequent export-import regulations 13 which implemented the law.
Id And there have been, for example, questions 15 about physical security assurances that had to be worked 16 out.
There was'the Euratom situation which held up cases 17 for some time and a number of other specific matters, 18 some questions raised by the Commissioners which opened 19 up areas which required going back and forth to the State
-Department.
21 We have not really met that on a regular basis, i
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that 60 days.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Can you give us a quick 24 approximation'of the percentage of cases which have met what M.Federe( Qeponm, Inc.
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MR. SHEA:
I don't have the figure for that 2
offhand.
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3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Can you give us a l
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rough guess?
I 5
MR. SHEA.:
I would say -- maybe I should turn 6
to the staff for an estimate, but I would say perhaps 7
one-third.
Would that be too optimistic?
8 MR. MOORE:
That have not met?
9 MR. SHEA:
The ones that have met.
I was 10 thinking two-thirds, perhaps have not met.
11 MR. FOOPE:
(Inaudible.)
12 MR. SHEA:
This is Neal Moore of the licensing 13 staff.
14 MR. MdORE:
I would put it clocer to So percent to 15 two-thirds that have meth The ones that have not met are 16 the ones that we have the questions on, Where we have problersI 17 where we have to go back to the Executive Brr.nch. These are m 18 the ones that have given us problems, and they continue 19 to be on our board at this moment.
20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Could you --- no hurry, but 21 whenever it is convenient, rive me an account of j
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those figures?
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23 l Thank you.
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24 MR. SHEA:
Certainly we can provide that.
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25 One of the facters that has been serving, I think, to l~
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improve the performance in that regard -- and I imagine 2
Neal is factoring that in to his' estimate here -- and 3
perhaps I hadn't -- in recent months the staff has been f,
4 able to process what we call routine reloads for i
5 reactor cases.
6 MR. MOORE:
This is exactly right.
This is what 7
I had in mind.
There are a number of cases that no longer 8
have to come to the Commission.
9 COMMISSIONER F.ENNEDY:
Fine.
10 MR. SHEA:
Fine.
So that has picked up.
11 MR. MOORE:
Thank goodness.
12 (Laughter.)
]
13 MR. SHEA:
That also does not require the 14 staff paper.
It's not just Commission time, but we don't 15 have to do a staff paper, which is a help.
And that 16 speeds it up.
So we're doing more and mo.e of those 17 since we have sent down to you, since the Nonproliferation I
18 Act that came into effect, cases for a particular country 19 and particular reactors to pave the way for these 20 subsequent reloads.
21 And that took awhile to get these generic 22 approvals,-if you will, underway.
But now they're starting 23 to roll.out.
We've issued quite a few of these routine 24 reloads in recent months.
Tha't's picked up our average in
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25 meeting the 60 days.
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- I But I'll provide that specifically.
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDN:
Thank you.
3l MR. SHEA:
So the 60 days then to my mind i
4 remains the key target.
'I would like to do better in 5
terms of taking.that, though, as the goal for normal 6
cases and recognizing that there will always be presumed --
7 at least we seem to face them quite often -- complex 8
cases that I think can be expected to take longer than 9
that by their nature.
10 But I would hope that the 60 day period on II cases that were not so complex might be divided in 12 some reasonable way between the staff and the Commission 13 in terms of time to deal with ca.ses.
Id As a rough goal for my own use -- and it remains 15 a target -- I was thinking in terms of perhaps dividing 16 that time with the Commission half and half or perhaps I7 if you could be generous, a little more time to the staff IO with that.
19 But at least as a target -- I hesitate to 20 use the worci " deadlines," which was used earlier.
- Goals, I like goals anhtargets a little better.
21 22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I don't mind giving you 23 two-thirds.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'll give you all but
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I can't go that far.
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
If you've done your i
3
- work, I.anly need 48' hours to read it.
I can decide I
4 very quickly.
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I'm a slow reader.
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I can't find it.
7 (Laughter.)
end 1 8
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. COMMI SSIONER AHEARNE 2 My suggestion was 10 days.
2 COMMISSIONER KE NNEDY: 10 days?
Let.me go on 3
record, I don't need it in 10 days.
I don't want it in 10 4
days.
I won't accept 10 days.
I won't use 10 days.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
We'll have yours delivered.
6 COMyI.SSIONER BRADFORD: You canlet it sit on his desk --
7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
No, no.
We'll deliver his 8
48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br /> to go.
9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY You w.ill never find my o.ffice 10 late on any issue-that's.before it with a deadline.
11 Certainly not any of these, today or any other day.
We need 12 discipline among commissioners as well as among staffs.
13 As a ma.tter of f ac t, there is a word in leadership 14 that says that one of the best ways to get people to do what
'15 you want them is by example.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE Yes.
And in fact, I am 17 saying he can have 50 days and I'll take 10.
18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'm suggesting we don't need 19 60 days.
We are planning to take the outside limit which 20 the statute provided.
It never intended that we do that.
21 That was the point of my earlier remarks. We should read the 22 beginning of the statute and its purposes and be guided by 23 what is intended'and not what limits they extend to us.
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, what I have in mind is that 25 we talk about where those times come in a minute.
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
154.02.2 21 gsh 1
What I want to..do at.the moment is note that there 2
were a number of sort of steps along the way at various 3
times that each could take that were proposed for choice in i
4 the general counsel's memo, and Comnissioner Bradford didn't i
5 find the whole proposition all that attractive in detail and 6
hasn't had much chance to put his thoughts before us.
7 Peter,-would you like to take a crack at the 8
proposition and see if we can --
9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, I have a somewhat l
10 more limited appetite for: self-flagellation on these matters.
JI I do feel, obviously, that we should act as quickly as 12 possible.
The beginning of the statute, though, does have 13 other purposes than the one that cites reliability of 14 supply and I think warrants attention as well.
15 For my own part, I am perfectly willing to work with 16 whatever set d5adline appears reasonable to the commission.
17 My concern, though, is that in situations, regardless of 18 what the chosen deadlines are, where one or two commissioners 19 have requests for Information outstanding, the process not 20 work in such a way as to send an export simply on the basis 21 of a majority vote, even a 4 to I vote, unless the 22 commissione Is in the majority have specifically said that they 23 have no interest in waiting any longer for the information.
24 That is, there have been enough cases in which a 25 commissioner's request for_ inf ormation has uncovered something ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
l 154.02.3
.22 gsh I
that then. caused a withdrawal or a rethinking of an export 2
that has already had majority approval, that it would seem to 3
me to be. imprudent just to assume on the basis of four votes 4
with ono commissioner with a question outstanding the license 5
ought~to go.
6 I agree there ought to be a procedure through which 7
that can be done knowingly, but it should not, unle.ss the 8
majority has expressly said that they want it to.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNEJ I agree with that.
10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2 I think that's reasonable.
The J1 proposition 1s, indeed, true.. If the members on the majority 12 side are quite confident that nothing is likely to come in 13 answer to a set of queries is going to change their votes, 14 why, then, maybe it's perf ectly reasonable to go ahead, since, 15 presumably, the majority will continue to move in whichever i
16 way their feet are set.
17 But, indeed, if incoming information might change 18 that voting order, why, then, it ought to be heard.
19 COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE:
I thought what Peter's point 20 was, at least the one I would agree with, is that in order 21 to go ahead, lt's an explicit decision on the part of the
.22 majority that there is information, an information request 23
. outstanding.
Nonetheless, they explicitly --
24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD Right.
j 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Just so.
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. COMMI SSIONER $ KEANEDY I would' agree with that.
-2 CHAIRMAN H' ENDRIE:
Now, let's see.
Jim, could you 3
helpLme outline:the procedure that you proposed here and 4
look at some'of the-provisions of it and see what we'might 5
like and not'like out of that?
6 MR. KELLEYs We made a - series of recommendations on 7
a sequential basis, considering the types of problems arising.
8 And I.think Sam is_ going to agree with me on this.
It's 9
not that far.from existing practice in general.
'But we did 10 try_to lay these out and -- let me ask' Herb Rothch.ild to J1 walk through these and indicate where the sentiments.seem to 12 l ie.
13 MR. ROTHCHILDs Maybe we can start with this first 14 question, whether we work forwards or backwards.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let me preface it, I gue.ss, in the 16 following way.
Suppose for purposes of this portion of the d' sc uss ion, I say that the Secretary receives from the staff 17 i
18 its recommendation on a license application on day zero.
19 okay?..After a bit, then, let us decide where we want a zero 20 to be in the 60-day scale.
21 COMI4ISSIONER AREARNE:
Can I -- I'm having
- 22 dif ficulty addre.ssing any of-these dates unless I have at 23 least some sense of'A, is the commission willing toiput a 24 L deadline;on. the staff, and B, is that deadline likely to be 25 in the middle,.beginning,. which would be unrealistic towards 1
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the end.
2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think in part it depends a 3
little bit on how many days one wants to allow down the line, 4
because in part, one arrives at that by backing up from an l
5 end-date.
But I think it's likely to turn out to be around 6
day 40, or something like that.
'7 COMMISSIONER KEtNEDY: That's only a ssuming that we 8
have concluded that we are going to take 60 days.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
No,,I would put it in terms that 10 it is our --
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: We hope to take less.
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That it is our. practice, that 13 the staff report will come as soon as it can, but in no case 14 later that day,*I don't know, 40.
15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
We're going to set an 16 all-time precedent, then.
We never have yet.
17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: You know, some of these things just IS take the time they take, almost no matter what you do.
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Almost any of them.
There's 20 a law, I think, that says that work will take whatever time 21 it is available to do it in.
22 MR. SHEA We have had some done in shorter time 23 than that, but they're not as frequent as we would like.
24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Whatever deadlines we agree 25 on, let's also include an ALARA concept.
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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Certa inly.
2-COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But Joe, you would be wi.111ng 3
to support something like that?
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE Yes, of course. Sure.
Anyone 5
else?
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
A deadline ?
7 CONNISSIONER AHEARNE: On the staff.
1 8
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Sure.
9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I had thought that that 10 w a s --
11 COMMISSIONER ARE ARNE:
That's not in this proposal.
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: No, I understand.
But it 13 seems to me to be clearly part of the facts.
14 MR. GOSSICK2 could we.deffne " deadline"?
15 (Laughter.)
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Advise us why not and when 17 we're going to get it.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I believe what we do is gather 19 at drwn the following Saturday morning in front of the 20 Phillips Building, and have public e xecutions.
21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I guess that we have a proposal herthat says that things are going to move ahead 22 e
23 in the absence of something happening.
24 MR. GOSSICK2 We're all for that. I just want to 25 distinguish between a deadline and, you know, whatever the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
!354.02.7 26 gsh 1
meaning is.
2 COMMI SSIONER AHE ARNE:
I gue ss the deadline means
)
3
' if it's consistently not met, I would expect to have you 4
and ' Jim up here explaining why the deadline hasn't been met.
5 MR. 00.SSICK :
I have no problem with that.
6 COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE2 The more it's not met, the 7
more heated that explanation is going to have to be.
8 MR. GOSSICK:
There will be cases.
Just because 9
you establish a deadline, doesn't mean that there may not be 10 one that you're not going to meet because of some unforeseen 11 difficulty that just can't be helped.
12 But we would h 7pe that that would be the exception.
1 13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
In cases of that kind, it 14 takes somebody 35 seconds to let somebody know that.
15 MR. GOSSICK:
Yes.
I just-want to understand what 16 deadline means.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But it's a serious time.
18 MR. GOSSICK:
It's a conmitment to meet that date, 19 if at all possible.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE2 You s ee, I would fael once 21 I' would agr.ee, or the majority of the commissioners agr.ee, 22 and,therefohe, are somewhat bound to meeting these other 23 times.
They are meaningful to me only with that other 24 deadline there.
Because, for example, if a very complex 25-case comes in with three days.left, and I've got a deadline ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
.s 354.02.8 27 gsh sitting here that I know.,I'm bound by the statute, I will 2
feel'that I should have had that a lot sooner to start 3
working on.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Quite clear.
I think you have 5
wide support all around.
And I think we understand deadline 6
in the sense that it's a date to be met at all possible, and 7
if it looks like it's not going to be met, then I.think the 8
Secretary ought to be notified and a note can be passed to commis ioners that on a license, a summary for whatever 9
s 10 reason we're getting ready to breach.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And since I raised the 12 issue, to go a little bit f urther.in explanation, I would 13 expect that would force the rest -- your organization to 14 establish procedures inside the organization so that when 15 a request first comes in, that it goes into a system which 16 has a reasonable likelihood of meeting that deadline.
17 MR. GOSSICK:
That's right.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You mean there's going to 19 be no executions?
20 (Laughter.)
21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
We'll find somebody.
(L'ughter.)
22 a
23-MR. GOSSICK:
That's being done now.
-24 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Let me say I would hope 25 there would be re-examination.
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MR. SHEA:
I.will say that concept pf a deadline 2
is certainly all right with me.
And we will notify you of j
3 those cases in a systematic way.
We might have a problem in 4
trying to make those as infrequent as possible.
5 I think.it would have been difficult to do in this 6
period.a few months after the nonproliferation act.
But I 7
think I see a chance to institutionalize that here in the 8
future.
9 Now that we're over some of these hurdles, I think 10 we can do better on them.
JI CHAIRMAN HENDRIE Let me note also for the 12 commissioners, particularly, but for all assembled, that I 13 have asked Jim that where an application comes in which he 14 perceives, he and his staff perceive may raise some questions, 15 and I think their ability to sense those cases is pretty 16 good by now, that they go then to the Executive Branch and 17 ask for advice on them.
18 And I have asked him in those cases where there is 19 likely to be some,. in his judgment, some questions up the 20 line, that he notify us that he's doing that, that the thing 21 has come in, that he send us a note saying, we have got this 22 application, copy attached, or whatever.
There may be some 23 questions in one line or another. We are going to the 24 Executive Branch with our standard query and with any 25 special queries as a ttached, and try to call our atter, tion to ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, _INC._(202)347-3700
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the presence of this. application before the commi.ssion.
2 And asking us if we can think of other things we would like 3
to have raised with the Executive Branch, because it may be 4
that if we can stop and think a little bit at that stage, so e of the questions which we of ten find ourselves asking 5
m 6
af ter the staff paper has come back could, in fact, have been 7
put into the mill at a very much earlier stage.
8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I believe the law requires 9
this.
10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: This was something you suggested, 11 as a matter of fact, and I've been oursuing it.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I was only following the 13 law.
Either the law or one of the reports indicates we 14 are to make our concerns known at an early point.
15 MR. SHEA:
It's in the nonpreliferation act 16 in parallel with the Executive Branch, we should introduce 17 any questions we might have that we perceive at that point.
18 That's a very good point.
I think that would help 19 speed up the process.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
And what that means on our part 21 is. that when we get one of these sort of specially flagged 22 early warning things from Ip, that we have to pay it some 23 attention to try to thrash up the sort of things as we are 24 able.
25 Now I recognize that there may be questions which ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERSr.INC. (202)347-3700
154.02.11 30 gsh-I simply will not develop u.ntil later in the proce ss when the 2
Executive Branch views have come back and the staff paper 3
has been prepared, comes up.
And I don't expect that we will, 4
you know, never, never have difficulty with a proce.ssing of i
5 an application again.
6 But to the extent'that we can move some of the j
7 questioning that we do up to a stage where the staff is going 8
to the Executive. Branch and saying, now what are your views, l
9 why, I think it's likely to be a considerable help in the 10 process.
.11 MR. SHEA: I wonder if I might just take another 12 moment, Mr. Chairman, on that point to ask if we might go.
13 Just perhaps a little beyond that?
1.4 If I could outline axactly what we do at this 15 point to see if our procedures are satisfactory right now, 16 how we might improve them.
i 17 What we do now is receive the applications f rom the 18 a pp lic ant.
And for a case that would require commission 19 review, we would be going to the Executive Branch with a 20 request for their views.
That's a letter sent from us to 21 State.
22 Right now, our procedures call f or sending copies of 23 those to you.
It's the 1e.tter to State with the application 24 attached.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY It also goes to the public ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
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doc ume nt room.
2 MR.-SHEA8 It goes to the public document room.
3 At that. time, _ they're distributed to all the commissioners 4
with no special note at this point.
They're just distributed 5
and they come in to you.
6 Now I.would suggest that insofar as possible, I 7
think the commissioners might examine those when they come 8
in to see if there might be any questions that arise at that 9
point, because'that is at a very early stage in the process.
10 It would be a good point to introduce questions.
11 Now we can endeavor in addition to specially flag the ones 12 that we think wi.11 really raise questions.
But in addition, 13 I wonder if you might be able to also look at these routine 14 ones to perhaps catch things that we wouldn't notice or 15 we might not.think something is going to be complicated, 16 but you might see a particular problem.
17 That would be a help to us to routinely examine 18 those and flag any questions.
19 Now at a later point, the next step is usually that 20 the Executive Branch views come back to us and we are now 21 sending those down to the commission shortly af ter receipt, 22 usually with'in-a few days, and also to the PDR.
23 At that point, that would be another opportunity 24.
for you to raise any questions _you might have.
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Que s t io n, Jim.
Why not just
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send it down to us as soon as they are received?
2 MR. SHEA:
The applications?
3-COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE: No, no, the Executive Branch 4
views.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
He does.
6 MR. SHEA2 What we do is it's usually within a 7
few days.
It takes us -- well, we have to take it and log 8
it and we usually put on a transmittal memo that says, here 9
is such and such a case.
10 Nea they have been rather pro forma transmissions.
11 I think you're suggesting why not just make a copy, which 12 we could do.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes.
14 MR. SHEA: But one of the things we are trying to 15 do at this point, and it's an extra step in the process which 16 we are going to try to see if we can devote staff time to, 17 is to flag at that point for you any particular issues or 18 questions that we see that we will be addre.ssing in the 19 subsequent staff paper.
20 That will take a little longer to get it out of 21 us, but would be a help, I think, in an early review.
That 22 would be a trade-o.ff.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Enough of a help to warrant 24 the additional staff time commitment?
I see some of the staff 25 shaking their heads and saying no.
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(Laughter.)
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
They're the guys that are 3
doing this.
4 MR. SHEA:
Well, we have not yet done this, and 5
they are'the guys.that are going to have to evaluate the 6
procedure.
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY 2 I must say I have some 8
quest' ion ln my mind about the amount of time that's involved 9
in that and whether, in fact, that's going to contribute.
10 All that is is a sort of here, f ellows, you don't JI have to read this so much.
We're going to.tell you what 12 we're going to talk about, sort of thing.
And again, a 13 careful reader doesn't really need that much.
14 MR. SHEA:
Well, not necessarily.
I would hope that 15 we would go beyond what was simply in the Executive Branch 16 vlews to pol'nt up the issues as we saw them.
We would later 17 address some of the staff papers and put that paper in 18
. perspective.
19 Now we have a couple at the present time that we're 20 looking at.
It has not taken too much staff time to do the 21 ones that we have started with.
But we haven't actually sent 22 any to you..
23 What we could try to do is to send a f ew down and 24 have you evaluate it and see whether you think that is 25 useful and experiment with it.
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I t is my thought t.o see. how much -t ime the re's 2
involved, what you think are the benefits, and evaluate that 3
over t ime.
It may not be useful.
4 It would be, again, though, an early flagging of 5
issues and then we get the staff paper in the 30, 40-day 6
period or lass.
7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE I would expect that to be 8
ne c e.ssa ry.
I would think that it would be more than just 9
a nominal transmission only in those cases where you sense lo that there may be-some questions raised at the commission 11 level.
12 And, again, it's by way of trying to call to 13 commissioner attention a potential case of interest and to 1
14 scare up questions at an early stage, because.it's going to 15 be -- from that point, it's going to be a month odd until 16 the staff paper arrives, and that's a very precious month, 17 if, indeed, people can identify --
18 If an area of interest that is to be covered can 19 be identified, why, that month is very helpful to get on 20 w.ith ge tting inf ormation.
21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY I view this, on the one hand,'
22 the idealistic sense and say that you're absolutely right.
23
- But I look at it in a cynical sense and say it ain't going 24 to work.
25 So could you, please, help me confirm one or the 3
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154.02.16 35
. gsh 1
other of those views.af te.r whate ver t ime you're going to 2
practice on these things?
And I think if we're going to do we o ght to practice for a few months -- let's say thr.ee --
3 it, u
4 give me a report by case of the number of questions you 5
-have received at an early date as a result of this process 6
because that's the measure of eff ectiveness.
7 And the amount of time this involved in each one 8
of these cases for this particular step that might otherwise 9
have been devoted to processing the case and getting it here 10 five days earlier.
11 MR. SHEA2 Exactly.
There is a trade-off.
The 12 staff is limited and pressed all the time for it, so there 13 is a trade-off.
14 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY So if you'd g.ive me that, 15 I'd appreciate it.
Or an evaluation. We can discuss it again.
16 COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE:
Jim, when you send that 17 application over to the State Department, there are obviously 18 a few fairly standard questions by now that a number of us 19 have asked in each application.
20 I assume that either you have arranged with the 21 State Department-to provide that information on a regular 22
-basis, or el'se when you send that application over, you would 23 remind us that these are specific issues.
24 Take the attachments, for example. Clearly, we're 25 going to ask is there one and what's the status?
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.So'if we. wait until the final staff paper comes 2
up and.then we say, well, ask the State Department, that's 3
an. unneeded extension of time.
4 MR. SHEA>
That's right.
Tnat should be done 5
early on.
It's more the former of the two routes that you 6
suggested.
It's more the former we have used to ask State 7
to provide on a generic basis on fut'tre applications.
8 The a.ttachment data, for example, and we're 9
trying to. identify issues like that on that basis with them.
10 MR. GOSSICK:
That should be NMSS interf ace working 11 on the same basis At the same time.
Coordination 12 MR. SHEA:
Right.
Lee reminds me, of course, that 13 one of the steps that we have in this application processing 14 is the coordination with the other offices, and that is 15 mainly with ELD and NMSS.
16 And we have also worked on trying to improve the 17 processing there as well and notifying the other offices 13 early on.
As these cases come in, the Executive Branch views 19 are received.
And even before that, when the application is 20 received, so that.the officers can be thinking about these 21 and generating their own questions at an early stage, so that 22 that does no't wait until the case is before them prior to 23 going to the commission.
24 So we have improved procedures there, particularly 25 the NMSS review.
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.154.02.I8' 37 gsh 1-CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, this has been a sort of,
- 2~
a little sidetrack'in the conversation.
I was about to 3
pursue down the issues. and options page, with the understanding 4
that it starts at a day zero, which is the staf f " deadline,"
5 as defined here.
And we will talk in a bit about exactly 6
where that ought to be.
And we will under' tand that the s
7 staff tries to do be,tter.
8 But that's sort of a later stage..
, 2, -
9 10 11 12 13 14 e
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22' 23 24 25 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
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38-
.1 MR. ROTHCHID:
Okay, question one presupposes
.CR13 5 4 -
2 that we'use'a five~ day nitial response period for the
- tapa 3 3
_ Commission.<
Is that'still acceptable?
That's the continuing david:1 4
practice for both papers in the export area as well as i
5 domestic. papers has been Comissioners five days initially.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
When you talk about 7
five days; is this five business days or five calendar 8
days?
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I assume it's five business 10 days.
11
' COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I just want to be clear.
12 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Is that acceptable --
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think the law talks,about 14 Gd days.
15 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Calendar days.
16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, we have to make 17 allowance for count backs.
In some sense, Commissioners' 18 business days run seven a week.
But what's meant here is 19 the five day week basis.
Five week. day.ss.
20 Does that seem okay to continue that?
21 C'OMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Aye.
22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I don't see any reason to
-23 change it.;
24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Right.
- .ce Feditel Recorters, Inc.
[
25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay._ Good enough.
Onward.
]'
l
]
39 lavid2 I
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I would agree with 2
that, but to some extent it hing'es on what one does with 3l the rest.
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It's a package.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Ok. r.
6 MR. RODiCE1LD:
Okay, now we have given the 7
Commissioner five additional business days.
Let's say 8
the Commissioner for some reason is unable to meet that 9
five day period.
The Commissioner is out of town or i
10 pressed on some other business.
One feature that could II be built into the system would be to allow a commissioner l
I2 automatic short extension of time.
13 We're talking about something that wouldn't 14 regt$ ire a majority Commission action.
We're talking 15 about something where a Commissioner could send a note to i
16 Sam saying, I need an extension beyond that period because I7 I just can't meet that five day deadline.
If the 18 Commissioners would like such an extension period, there l'
are options ranging from anywhere from two to five days, 20 and the informal votes that are received from Commissioners 21 previously, two Commissioners thought a three day 22 extension might be reasonable.
One Commissioner thought a f
23 five day --
1 2#
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let me ask you something.
ten. Federal Reporters, Inc j,
25 This would not _ apply if you 're inquring into the matter
... ~
40 devid3 I
further?
This is sort of a convenience?
2 MR. ROTHCHILD:
This is a convenience.
This 3
way you say, I'd like to write questions to the State I
Department or I'd like to -- I'm just not going to have 5
everything done by the end of five days.
I need it quick --
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I just got back from someplace 7
and haven't had a chance to look at it or something like 8
that.
9 MR. ROTHCHILD:
This can be very automatic 10 with one Commissioner telling the secretary that he needs Il that extension, and you wouldn't need to consult the 12 other Commissioners.
It would just automatically be done 13 without further ado.
l Id COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
But is this your number 15 two, Trip?
16 MR. ROTHCHILD:
This is number one.
17 MR. KELLEY: Five days is built into one already.
18
'then the quest on is:
how much --
I9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I see.
All right.
20 MR. KELLEY: Or should you have such a figure?
21' CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
You know, Peter's comment is 22 pertinent.
Does that mean, in effect, the initial 23 consideration ought to be six or seven or eight or 10 24 daysinstead of five and never mind this feature?
4ce Federal Reporters, Inc.
I don't 25 know.
I think in some ways it's helpful to have the five
41 I
david 4 days suspense time and to have to trigger something to go over it rather than just extending the time.
3l COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, supposing one has filed, questions during the first five days.
Does 5
that automatically --
6 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Under the procedure of the 7
Commission I believe adopted earlier, would be the 0
view that once a Commissioner submits a question, 9
Commission action will be deferred until we hear from 10 the State Department, unless the majority of the Commission 11 takes explicit action saying they don' t want to wait for it.
I COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That was my suggestion.
3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
So this extension business Id doesn't apply in that.
15 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Doesn't apply in that case.
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Doesn't have anything to 17 do with it.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That is until information 19 comes back.
20 MR. ROTHCHILD:
We'll address the question once 1 l 21 the information comes back down further along this chain.
Il 22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I see.
MR. ROTHCHILD:
This would in effect extend 24 the period by whatever it was.
If it was five days it Ace.Federd Reporters, Inc.
25 wotld give someone an extra three days which would be eight l
42 I
david 5 business days, perhaps, upon the request of a single 2
Commissioner, is what'we're talk'ing about.
3l If you-don't want an automatic extension 4
~procedure and believe we should find some other method 5
if someone is unable to provide views within five days, 6
then --
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I guess I'd go for 0
two.
MR. ROTHCHILD:
A two day extension period?
10 Two business days we're talking about.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
(Nodding positively.)
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I said 3, but I'd agree to 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: VicPsaid 5. How about you, Peter?
I#
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
.:I'd be inclined to say 15 up to five.
I wouldn't feel any tine I asPed for an extensior 16 I'd have to ask for a five-day extension.
17 MR. ROTHCHILD:
That's thenext issue down 18 below.
Someone needs a longer extension.
19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, at what point should 20 they have'to get permission of other Commissioners?
MR. ROTHCHILD:
This is what you're really I
getting to. 1-B here provides --
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
This one doesn't 24 Contemplate ~~ this is sort of an automatic -- if you need kee.Feorrst Reporters, Inc.
25 j'
an extension, just call Sam and say, I'm going to be late.
I
,0 43 I
david 6 And he says, okay, and he automatically moves the suspense 2
date by three working days.
3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Wh2 happens if Sam i
in fact hasn't heard from somebody at the end of the five 5
days?
Supposing he hasn't heard from two Commissioners?
0 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Then we're down to question 7
number two.
O COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
No, no.
Let's --
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Under current practice --
10 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Under current practice, the secretary may --
12 MR. CHILK:
We get a memorandum to you saying 13 we've heard from three and asking you to reply within a 14 certain length of time.
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But after five days, 16 though, Sam, you don 't automatically do that.
Supposing 17 you heard from only one Commissioner within the five 18 days?
19 MR. CHILK:
I wait until I get a majority.
That's 20 the current practice.
I do not act until I get a majority, 21 until I know I've got a majority vote.
I 22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
See part of --
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The five days doesn't 24 i
.:eMeoetal Reporters, Inc.
25 i,
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
In fact at least as I j
I ll.
44
~
I devid7 read Trip..'s memo here, when I get'to number two, that 2
. really still the five1 days is inoperative until the 3
majority has acted..'At the end of five-days, if only j
r i
one-Commissioner has voted, it isn't going to do much.
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's on the assumption 6
thatJCommissioners do not take seriously dae dealine which 7
they~would be proposing here.
8 MR. KELL EY: I think part of the problem here is --
9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Whatever is decided, I'll 10 abide by.
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
What are the reasons for 12 discussing chis -- and I would hope we can agree on a 13 procedure which we all can endorse -- would be to encourage 14 in the strongest terms Commissioners to try to vote in 15 the five day initial suspense period so there is an initial' set of several Commission votes to at least give I7' us an idea where we're going and where the decision is I8 pointing.
I9 If all of us~ ignore the five day initial 20 suspension and we all tell' Sam we need.two more and then.
"I
~
~
af ter = three or whatever -- and then af ter that we all decide 22
. we ought to havelanoth'er.100 days,.why obviously, we're 23 never going to'-- you know, we can go on indefinitely, but 24 i
' the. thrust here is to try to get. some votes on the. table in i:e.Focetal Reportern Inc.
25 fiveldays,:by God, so we can begin to move.
And that's
45 invid8 something we haven't managed to do in enough -- you know, 2
not always or_ any thing like that, but enough cases so 3
I really think it's worth our thinking about.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And since these are 5
the no questions asked cases at the moment, I think two 6
days automatic extension seems adequate.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Is that all right?
It's 8
sort of a business where you go to a guy to get to it 9
and things just went to pieces in the office and you just 10 haven't been able to get to it and in another day or two 11 would do it.
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
As I say, I would --
13 there will be cases where two will be all right.
I guess 14 there are cases where I would prefer to see up to a longer 15 period.
16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, I think there are 17 going to be those cases, Peter, and I think Trip 's next point would be longer extensions ought to have some --
19 ought to begin to gather _other Commissioners in, either 20 all or some, as the case may be.
21-But there would be allowance for those things.
22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
My only point is that i
before I would like to start worry about whether I think 24 Dick or John or' Victor has good and sufficient reason for
,,,,,,,,g,,n,,,,,,
~'
l' 25 wanting an extension, I. guess there would have to be a period of~
46 a
I david 9 time longer than two additional days.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's seven working I
3 days by this time, COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, but before I 5
interest myself in the workings of.another.
Commis sioner's 6
offl.ce enough to worry about whether I think I want 7
to vote down a question,for an extension.
I'd like O
to see enough days to really start to matter.
MR. KELLEY : You have the intermediate option 10 of putting that powe_ in the Chairman, which I think is a 11 good idea.
I (Laughter.)
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I voted for it.
14 (Simultaneous discussion.)
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I ruled that vote out e
16 as being in conflict of interest.
17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, let's see.
I didn't --
18 you didn't manage to move me to understanding where you would go.
O COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think Peter is with 21 Victor on five.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think what Peter.is 23 saying is that, -you know, we all take this seriously, 24 and no one is going to take more time than he thinks is
,e..F.o:<.
Reporters. Inc.
25 necessary, but there may be occasions when a longer period --
l l
47 david 10 after all, this is a maximu, not a norm.
2 l
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
All maximums are norms 3 I in this Commission on all subjects.
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
And so the question 5
is:
do you want to allow for the longer period?
I~mean, 6
after all, this is after various officials have been 7
masticating on this application for God knows how long,
)
8 and we are the ones who have got to make the actual j
9 decision, and are we to be under some very short deadline 10 in making that in exceptional cases?
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The exceptional cases 12 are in B or in two.
13 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Absolutely.
Procedures under 14 1-B and two will allow the Commissioners additional time 15 if that five business days or whatever you agree is an 16 automatic extension is not enough.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Can we get an agreement on 18 four then, sort of splitting these various differences?
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let's talk about 1-B and two.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Wait, I think Peter would 21-go with four.
22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Why, did you see a blink 23 down there?
.ce Federet Reporters, Inc.
O MNE :
If we wo d pe 2e thing to' bed, I would go with four.
You'renotthinkingaboutl
l 48 tvidll question four.
You're talking about four. days.
2 l
'i COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
All right.
Well, maybe t
we can make -- strike a deal somewhere in there, but let S
me go down tk line a little bit and see what we want to do 6
with the next provision because depending -- you
- know, 7
what about the business of longer periods?
8 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
You mean B?
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
B and two.
10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, longer periods, 11 I would go with the majority.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Yes, the two is -- has 13 another aspect to it.
As to B, I have already indicated 14 it seems to me a majority of the Commissioner ought to 15 be involved.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
,I agree on that.
17 l
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I would agree on that 18 too.
That does reflect back on -- there are two dif ferent 19 points involved in A, this -- obviously the one of how-20 long --
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think I switch to your I
22 side.
As long as they hold.
l 23 (Laughter.),
.24 ead, Peter.
WFecstgi Reporters. Inc.
j,;
25 j
CO"MISSIONE? BR7DFORD : There *.rc tw^ Oarts tr A.
One is
49 david 12 is how long the commissioner will be able..to get an 2
extension on his own, but there is after all, I think, the 3
question of how often the other frur of us -- thaother J
l 1
4 four of you want to convene in order to figure out what I 5
am doing with my paper work, and I should think you would be -- )
CEAIRMAN HEUDRID: That is why I thought it ought to 7
be in mv hands.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I understand that.
9 I should think that the number of times any combination 10 of four of us would want to convene to worry about that 11 particular question would be a number we would like to j
12 hold to a minimum.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I would think so.
MR. ROTHCHILD:
I think the hope is here that 15 under 1-B there wouldn't be a Commission meeting and 16 all this stuff could be done through yourselves and
-)
17 through notations, unless there is,some real problem.
18 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But it does require 19 whether it's a formal. meeting or paper work, just taking 20 time off from other things to try and figure out what I
we're doing.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That would inhibit me 23 from wanting to take more time off and because I wouldn't 24
)
want to put everybody else through it, so I would try to
.,l see.F os,.i seporters, Inc.
25 l'
get the work done so they wouldn't have to be f aced with the l
' e 84 1
50 iavid13
_ question.
-COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But of course based 3
on your earlier statements, that probability won't arise.
4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's correct.
5 (Laughter.)
6 In the rare instance that it might, it would 7
drive me more to make sure that it didn' t aris.e.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let's see.
It'seems to me 9
we have an initial five day period to look at.these things, 10 and then we 're going ' to have an additional two, three, 11
.four, five day period on anybody's notice to Sam that he I
end 3 needs the time.
13
- 14 15 16 17 l
18 19 20 21 j.
22
'23 24
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- ~
25 l
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154.04.1 51 gsh 1
. CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2. I f we haven't -developed enough 2
votes by then to see a commi.ssion majority one way or 3
another -- have we got enough problems on our hands so that 4
we ought to. schedule a meeting?
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE2 I don't know.
It really 6
would depend on what are the reasons that people haven't
~
7 gotten to'it.
8 If it's because there really has been a number of 9
other issues that they haven't managed to wrestle their way 10 through and they're trying to.think through those l's s u e s,
.11 it's not obvious tha.t holding a meeting is going to cast i
12 any, clarity on it.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE True.
So maybe.we need the 14 longer extension procedure.
15 COMMI.S5IONER GILINSKY I mean you are talking about 16 a f ew days.one way or the other on top of something like 17 several months in the Executive Branch at NRC, or a couple 18 of months, at any rate.
Probably more than that.
Probably 19 more like three months and maybe longer.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNEJ Of course we are also aware 21 of - this process going on.
We have got this initial notice
.22 that.this thing.has come in and we have got initial response 23 of Executive Branch, and particularly on any of these ones 24'
.that are very' sticky.
25 I.would imagine that we are all relatively familiar, ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERSi INC.'(202)347-3700
52 354.04.2 gsh I
or reasonably f amiliar with.some of the outst.anding issues 2-in them.
So that is not really waiting as its final staff 3
paper.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE All right.
I'll buy the need 5
for a provision 1-B, which I trust won't be exercised very 6
often because I think Peter is right: It's rather a dreary 7
busine ss.
It means whichever of us wants a longer extension 8
will have to write a note around to the other saying, I need 9
more time because I want to study the Sanskrit originals, 10 or whatever.
And the majority of the rest will have to say, J1 okay, be our guest.
12 Okay.
And you want the majority.
Let's agree on 13 the majority.
Three of you, ill-advisedly, are going to 14 agree on the majority.
15 (Laughter.)
16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE So the answer to 1-B is --
17 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Th.ree or four?
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Wo.11, as long as there are three 19 of you stand 4ng fast, Vic is going to vote with me. -
20 (Laughter.)
21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE In a show of solidarity.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Suppose I shift to you.
23 Then where does he go?
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: He'll vote against it.
25
-(Laughter.)
4
a 9
54.04.3 53
.gsh 1
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Do I read that?
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
You'd be.tter hurry and 3
decide which way you want the vote to rLn.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I don't care.
I voted for 5
myself, having ultimate confidence in my wisdom.
6 Okay.
Let me take you back to 1-A, then, and see 7
if I could -- I have had two votes for three. John spoke for 8
one.
Vic wanted five.
There have been various other --
9 Peter might incline up toward. the larger number as well.
10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Four seems to be reasonable.
J1 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Three, four -- how does that 12 strike you?
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would settle on four.
14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE By George, I sense a consensus 15 of our legal board.
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDYJ I think that four sounds like 17 a number that I would have chosen if I just thought about it.
18 (Laughter.)
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: There you see.
Four, and a 20 majority so far.
Onward.
21 Af ter the expiration of the initial five-day review
' 22 period, or the extended one if somebody has applied, and once 23 a majority, the views of. the majority are received, then the 24 secretariat bumps the people who haven't voted to that point 25 and they have. got a couple' -- they have got to come through,
- t i
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354.04.4 54 gsh I
then.
2 MR. ROTHCHILD:
The intent here, at least from 3
our perspective, would be for the secretariat to put out a i
4 not ice that says, we are giving -- we have got a majority of 5
the commissioners have voted and the review period has 6
extended.
We have now given you.this number of days to 7
respond and we'll say.122.00 noon.
8 When that time ends, the intent will be at 12:00 9
noon to list any commissioners who have not given their votes 10 then as being nonparticipators.
There would be no going Ji back and banging on a commissioner's d.cor.
12 Once you start that, then you end up extending, 13 that period over and over again.
14 And I think what we would like to do is get a 15 fairly firm period and say, when we say 48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br />, we really 16 mean 48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br />.
And once that passes, Sam will.just pick up 17 the phone and call Jim Shea, and say, this is what we have 18 got.
Two commissioner or one commissioner is not participating 19 I think that's the way we would like to see it run.
20 If you start making exceptions and then go and knock on 21 doors at the end of a 48-or 72-hour period, then the 22 commissioners say, well, give me 5 more hours or give me 23 a day.
24 We're just going to end up with this being a very 25 flexible period and we will not have too much meaning in m
=-
54.04.5
.55 gsh I
many cases.
Particularly, o.nce the commissioners have had 2
an opportunity to extend the period for an additional four 3
business days.
4 And this would be sort of the last straw.
Let's 5
move.
6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: This is a situation in wh,1ch 7
you had an extension and. then no request for a f urther 8
extension?
9 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Yes, or five days --
10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2 Or a request for an extension J1 which a majority turned down. '
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, you're talking about a 13 five-day period, plus a four-day automatic extension period, 14 which is nine working days, which can range from either 15 ele ven to thirtsen calendar days.
Or that plus some other 16 unspecified period which could have been approved by the 17 majority of the commission.
18 Whatever that is, then you're' talking about this.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Trip, let me ask a question.
20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Isn't that correct?
21 MR. KELLEY:
It shouldn't happen very often.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Well, I'm just saying that's 23 what this is talking about.
24 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Currently, if the situation 25 arises where a majority have voted and one or two have not, LACE-FEDERAL, REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
- 54.04.6 56 gsh I
the majority -- isnf t it..possible right now f pr the voting 2
commissioners to vote to do ahead ar.1 send it out?
3 MR. ROTHCHILD Yes.
dell, let me explain what 4
the difficulty has been, at least the way it's been told to 5
me.
6 The Secretary's practice, I believe, has been 7
generally to give 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />' notice.
At the moment, that l
8 has been the general practice. In many cas es, at the end 9
of that time period, a commissioner may still not have j
10 provided his views, and the secretariat is a little uncertain 11 as far as what he should do in that case.
12 I think in many cases, what has happened then is 13 that the secretariat has ex. tended that time period or said, 14 well, when can you have your views?
And this has gone on 15 in a few cases, for an extended period of time until, finally, j
16 when no views have been in, the chairman has generally 17 decided to go ahead and advise staff what the commission's 18 position has been.
.}
19 And I' think it's this kind of situation which 20 in part triggere'd this memorandum, the request that we 21 develop procedures.
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I'm not raising it 23 particularly well, but what I'm trying to grope at, it seems 24 what 'this is asking is, in a generic sense, to have us 25 approve an override rather than f acing, in a specific sense, f
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-54.04.7 57
_ g sh I
to approve the override.. Bu.t the specific case could 2
always be addressed.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'm not sure you improved the 4
phrasing.
5 (Laughter.)
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I'm uneasy in that it appears 7
to me -- let me try it a different way.
8 It appears to me it's saying that there are cases 9
in which the majority of the commission has voted, and a 10 commissioner has not.
J1 If this were in effect.. this would enable them, 12 whatever X is here, X stays after the secretariat has notified 13 that commissioner's office that everybody else has voted it's J
14 going to go in X-days.
The commission doesn't act, it goes.
15 That's what.this would enable.
16 MR. ROTHCHILD:
Yes.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: There is nothino right now 18 that would prevent those who have already vote to agree that 19 time is now running out, we're going to go ahead, except it's 20 a lot harder to ove rride on a specific case because then it's 21 me or Dick or Joe or. Vic or Peter, and we're worried, we.11, 22 maybe they have a good reason or we're not going to override 23 them.
24 They have got their rights.
25-So it'seems to me what this is asking in the generic d
e
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354.04.8 58 gsh I
case, to prove - something.that we have been reluctant to do, ap arently, in the specific case.
2 p
3 MR. ROTHCHILD: Absolutely.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, that's just exactly why 5
I put it.before you, because there have been a few cases of 6
this kind where the time stretches on, a clear majority have 7
voted one way or the other, voted the issue typically --
8 in fact, in all cases that I can recall, and one commissioner, 9
or once in a while, two, but almost always in these cases, 10 one commissioner simply hasn't voted.
J1 From the standpoint of the majority action of the 12 commission, it doesn't matter which way he.votest the majority 13 is already established.
But by not voting, he pre vents 14 action.
15 COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE: But can't we then take --
16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: On o.ccasion, things have gotten 17 urgent enough and I get enough agonized calls from states 18 saying, can't you move the damn thing?
And I send Sam 19 around for one last time saying, we're going to issue this 20 af ternoon, and then I order him to 1.ssue.
21 Now, what I am saying is that I would like us a.il 22 to understand that I don't want to have to wait until it's 23 30 days past due, and that we all ought to understand that 24 when reasonable process has been exhausted and a majority want 25 to move, that there ought to be this agreed upon procedure I
~
l PSR -ERJd6JMA R@Jhfd@SRfbh R!d% DtMULSO S2-27 @ @
l
54.04.9 59 gsh 11 to move.
2 It simply makes understood between us on a perfectly 3
clear schedule and in a perfectly routine way, perfectly 4
clear routine of what has'been -- what I have been compelled, 5
in effect, to exercise from the chair from-time to time.
6 COMMI.SSION$R BRADFORD:
Let me just point oOt, 7
though, that in a fair number of those situations, if not in 8
all of them, there will have been questions outstanding.
9
-CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
No, I'm sorry.
10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I remember some in.which 11 it's definitely true.
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I'm so rry.
The ones I have 13 taken action on, I know of no outstano.ino questions.
14 CONNISSIONER BRADFORD:
Joe, the Japanese ones last Jung 15 and early July -- I just wetts up talking to John Borite, I 16 believe, from Europe, or at least on his way to Europe, under 17 just exactly that kind of pressure.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, more typically, answers have 19 come back in and there simply has been no action.
20 I ' don't remembe r what th e case was, but I remember 21 there was one that Vic had n6e acted on, that I went ahead 22 and pushed u'.
And there wasn't any information that I knew p
23 of that was still to come to the commission at that point.
24 CQMMISSIONER AHE ARNE:
I guess I have two conditions 25 under which I can' approve something like this, that is, I can ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
- 54.04.10 60
.gsh vote for something.
First, no_ outstanding questions.
I 2
think if there were outstanding questions, then it has to 3
go back to that other situation where a majority has to 4
agree to override.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE Fair enough.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Second, in the absence of 7
outstanding questions, I could concur with this kind of an 8
override only if you are now faced with the expiration of the 9
statutory time.
10 MR. KELLEY So you would wait until all 11 five had voted?
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would.
Jim, each of us 13 has to go through a process of going through the swearing to 14 the Senate that we're going to do certain things.
We are 15 required and mandated to do certain things.
We have 16 certain responsibilities.
17 And I f eel that putting this kind of a deadline 18 system is incons.istent with that.
I think the statutory 19 deadline is the one that I would be willing to support, 20 that running out with the majority, having voted and no --
21 at that time, no outstanding questions.
22 MR. KELLEY: So you might have four votes affirmative 23 on an export license at date 30.
You would wait another 30 24 for a commissioner who asked for more time --
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes, unless the majority of W
s ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
54.04.11 61 gsh 1-those have already voted, face. explicitly that:
In this 2
specific case, we are going to override and send it out.
- Yes, 3
that's what I would do.
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
See, when he asks for more 5
time and gets turned down, then that comes pre. tty close to 6
that second standard, because at that time, at that point, 7
there is going to be a certain amount of interchange.
If the 8
Commission says, no you can't have more tine, then they 9
are - pre tty well authorizing that it would be sent out.
10 The place where that position might in time JI rolling some distance on would be the one in which the 12 commi.ssion had, in fact, approved for more time.
13 But that time had gone by without an answer, but 14 it was still short of a statutory deadline.
That would be i
15 the one in which John's formulation might result in more 16 t ime.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes.
See', I feel that each 18 of us ends up being responsible to the Congress. And at-some 19 stage, if one of ut is really causing this thing to act in 20 a.way incons.1 stent with the way the law was written and 21
- passed by the Congre rs', then we are going to be -- we have 22-a situation where we are called to be responsible for it.
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You are suggesting there 24 would be two' votes in eff ect; the majority would vote to 25-issue and they would then possibly later vote to go f orward, ACE-FEDERAL' REPORTERS, INC.-(202)347-3700
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354.04.12 62 gsh I
despite one.or more commissioners hanging back,
2 COM".ISSIO.MER ?ITAnrE : That's richt. Yes.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It sort of has to come at the 4
same time, doesn't it?
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Not necessarily, no.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
No.
Certainly, we're not --
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
b.'cl[Comissioner 8
v.otes, and then a majority would develop.
Then you would 9
discover that one or more commissioners had not acted.
You 10 could then decide to take further action.
.11 CHAIRMEN HENDRIE:
Yes.
12 COMMI.SSIONER AHEARNE: And I do believe that the 13 important deadline in that situat. ion is not that X-days 14 have passed since we first started acting on the paper; it's 15 the statutory deadline facing us.
16 COMMI.SSIONER KENNEDY:
There may be a number of 17 other considerations.
18 MR. CHILK There may be'other limitations like 19 shipping or other restrictions, other than the statutory 20 l imdta t ion.
2!
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE':
Sam, it's a statutory deadline 22 that I'm concerned with.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But there'are other 24 considerations.
This is an agency which has -- you know, if 25 one.looks at the Atomic Energy Act, tne agency is charged with i
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~154.04.13 63 gsh I
the issuance of licenses.. And. the issuance of licenses by 2
a government agency is a very serious business, indeed.
It 3
is a service to the public, and the public needs to get i
4 service as well as limitations.
5 We are very gcod on the limitations t we're not f
6 too great.on the service.
7 And I-think,-you know, there's a li.ttle balance 8
there since they're paying us.
9 COMMISSI.ONER GILINSKY: But under John's plan or l
10 proposal, if a majority of the commissioners wanted to 1.ssue 11 the license, they could go forward and issue the license.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY 2 That's reasonable.
13 MR. KELLEY:
But not until the 60 days runs?
14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE* No, no.
The proposal was the i
l (5
majority can ride down the delinquent member at any time, but 16 that an automatic override of the delinquent member would j
17 only occur as you came up to the statutory limit.
18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY That's reasonable.
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Or a day ahead of time, or 20 something like that.
21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's right.
Then I would l
22 go with Trip's suggestion that that's the stage where the l
23 Secretary comes around and says, there are X-days, whether 24 it/s:2 or 3 days.
l 12 5 -
For-example, if there are 3 days before the statutory l
.202)347-3700
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(
s 154.04.14 64 gsh I
deadline is upon us, the..ma jority has. voted t.o a pprov e this.
2 It's going to go, unless -- with or without you.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It's going to go with or without 4
you.
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE2 Yes, but it's only the 6
s.tatutory deadline in my mind that would trigger that 7
automatically.
8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
But the majority could write it 9
down.
10 COMMI.SSIONER AHEARNE :
They can now.
11 COMMISSIONER OILINSKY:
Let's see.
There has got 12 to be some sort of a ti,me interval in there because, otherwise, 13 you could have a majority issuing it before anyone has even 14 seen -- or before two commissioners conceivably have seen 15 the application.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: No, no.
To override anybody --
17-well, that's right, it could be.
If, for some mysterious 18 way, the-paper showed up three days before the deadline --
19 no, it still eculdn't be issued without your knowledge 20 because the two ways it gets 1.ssued, or thr.ee ways it gets 21 is' sued, by vote, then it goes out.
22 The second way, the majority has agreed that it
.23 should go, and then a majority agrees to override the fact 24 that the others haven't voted.
25
-The third way, a majority has agreed to vote and the ACE-FEDERAL. REP _0RTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
54.04.15 65 gsh.,
I statutory deadline is upon.
And those who haven't voted 2
are notified that the statutory deadline is upon, and they 3
have two days or three days to respond.
4 COMMI.SSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I.think I basically 5
agree with the sense of what you're saying, but I think 6
there's a small problem there.
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: It could be.
8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
You want a couple of days before 9
the ' majority, having discovered they are a majority --
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Right, something like that.
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: -- pre.ss ahead and take an action.
12 It provides a couple of days for the others to discover, or 13 the other to discover that a majority, indeed, has formed.
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Right.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2 So I don't mind a couple of 16 days in there.before the override would occur.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Absolutely.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I s the pa.ttern of that clear 19 enough from all this conversation so that you could rewrite 20 2-A7 21 MR. ROTHCHILD Yes, sir.
22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: 2.
'o 23 MR. SHEA*
The statutory deadline you have in mind, 1
24 I gather, is the 60-day period?
25 CO MMISSIONER. AHE ARNE : Unless we've triggered it.
t-l l
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I d(@-15J@2dk23PMTfM% XML (2@2 ) 347-3700 1
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154.04.16 66 MR. SHEA:
And if,we. pass that,.as we might in gsh 1
2
.someLcases,. into the 60- and 120-days --
3
'COMMI SSIONER AHEARNE: That's a new statutory 4
deadline.
-5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE4
' God,-would you go clear to the 6
end?-
7' COMMISSIONER KENNEDY 2 You/d'go clear to the end of 8
the 120-day period?
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
If we triggered it, yes, I 10' would.
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That means every license in~
12 the place is going to take f our months.
13 MR. ROTHCHILD: But you've got the option to get 14 three commissioner together.
15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
What a great way to do 16 business.
17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But.that statement I really 18 think goes too far.
It really does assume that there are 19 commissioners ~who regard that as a legitimate way to de m
20-
~ bus ine ss.
21 I haven't seen that.
~
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY I'm not suggesting thet 23 people feelfthat.
I'm suggesting that people that they need 24
.to.take that amount.of time.
25-CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Remind me again, what throws us f
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS,LINC.1(202)347-3700
154.04.17 67 gsh I
again into the extra 60 days?
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That we formally ask within 1
3 the first 60 days, we ask the Executive Branch additional 4
que tions, or else we decide to hold public hearing.
s 4
5 MR. SHEA3 Well, that extends the period.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Each does.
7 MR. SHEA:
But you go past the 60 automatically.
8 MR.!'+IssR:
fou go past the 60 days automatically.
l 9
The statute l' sid if, in the first 60 days, you ask the 10 questirn, yot an get an almost unlimited amount of time if
.11 the Executive Branch does not respond.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE It takes an unlimited amount 13 of-time to get their answer.
Or if you go to public hearing,
~
14 60 days doesn't begin to --
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Isn't the statutory limit 16 basically 120 days rather than 60?
60 you have to inform 17 the applicant why you're holding it up.
18 MR. SHEA:
Thav _ right.
120 is the basic.
-i 19 20 21 l
22 23 24' 25 l
l 67-27@@
68 l
CR1354 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
We have shorter time. I assume we 2
~ ~ '
are talking about. subsequent arrangerents, 30 days under tape 5 i
1 3
david 1 interagency procedures.
These will be tailored to meet i
4 those. 30 days. deadlines.
5 MR. SHEA:
30 days and 20 days for some.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
These things and the 7
deadline of the staff have to be tailored.
8 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Absolutely.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
The 30 day business is going i
10 to be very difficult for this kind of a layout because 11 we are already chewing up a good part of 30 days with 12 the sort of things that we have got in here.
13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Before we ever got to 14 two we chewed up somewhere between 11 and 13 days.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay, let us advance to three.
16 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Three has been pretty well 17 resolved.
The view is if you get a majority of the Commission, a majority of the Commissioners, one Comnissioner theq) 18 19 will hoH up action and actually defer it unless the 20 majority decides to.go ahead.
21 What was decided upon it?
Did we say that if 22 tMe majority decides to go ahead, that will be by notation 23 unless someone decides to meet on it?
.24 i
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's fine with me.
{
. o Federal Reponen. Ind I'
2)
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
All right.
69 I
l lavid2 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
And four deals with the question 2
of where there is a. question asked --
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let me understand that i
b
(
4 point.
You said "by notation unless someone want s to have 5
a meeting."
What is the legal status of these actions 6
that we take?
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Legal status is the Commission has delegated the staff the ability to take action in 9
license applications and the Commission gives it views 10 to the staff on whether to accept or reject the staff 11
' recommendation on the application.
12 This avoids Sunshine Act meetings on every 13 export application.
Otherwise, the Commission formerly 14 held the power to issue licenses and everytime you issued 15 a license it would take a Commission meeting.
16 Therefore, what we are talking about here is 17
-giving recommendation to the staff and we are talking 18 l
about a situation whereby if a Commissioner says, here's 19 a question, Mr. Shea; I would like you to transmit this 20 to the executive branch for me, that the Commission action 4
21 i
will be --
l 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Right, but we can vote 23 by notation here?
24 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Yes.
The only time you have to l ue.Feodel Reporters, Inc.
25 formally vote is when you' issue an - order.
70.
4 -
I MR.KELLEY:
It's all been by notation.
lavid3 2
I understand' that.
You COMMISSIONER GILINSKY':
^
a 3l said if a Commissioner wants to have a meeting, 4
you would hold a meeting.
I mean, is that a legal right one 5
has or simply a matter of --
6 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
No, it's been Commission practice.
7 And what I.think the intent of my statement was:
if l
8 J
someone has a question they sent over-to the executive branch, 9
the majority of the Commissioners decide they would like the i
10 application to be acted upon, even though the State j
i Department response has not been received, that the I2 majority will be able to cast their votes by writing, 13 e
.rather than having to get together and meet; although if, Id I assume one Commissioner or more Commissioners, as 15
, ou normally do, decide this is the kind of issue you i
16 want to sit down and talk about rather than by doing it 17 by notation, I assume the opportunity for meeting will 18 always be there.
19 But hopefully the notation will be the norm J
20 rather than' meetings.
(
2I
' CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes, these rules, I must say, I
h 22 or guidelines, once developed, like the practice that if f
23
- a. Commissioner wants to meet on a subject, that we have a 24 meeting is an ' understood opera' ting practice of the Commission.
l w.Fedcret Reponen, Inc.
j 25
.I don't think-it's embodied in law.in a formal sense, probably g
t
71 i
l J
avid 4
.I wisely not.
i 2
Okay, and'the last item, Trip?
3 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
The last item is once we d
get'a response back from the executive branch on a question 5
of if the Commission sends something to the NRC staff for 6
further response, the intent is to use the same kinds of 7
procedures, particularly when you go to the executive branch 8
and you've extended the Commission period to act on a 9
license.
How much do you want once you get an executive 10 branch response back?
II There might be an argument that you don't need a 12 whole --
13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
You mean when the Id Commission gets it back, not the staff.
15 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Yes.
Do you want an additional 16 five business days and start thatprocess over?
Do you 17 want a shorter. time period?
I8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Explain to me why it isn't I9 a triggering of the whole system in the sense that sending 20 for the executive-branch questions have triggered that 21
-automatic-extension.-
22
.MR.
ROTHSCHILD:
They will in some cases; if 23 a question has been asked of the executive branch-in the 34-first-60 days, that triggers an extension of time.
If
. sc..r.dm1 Reporters, kic, 25 it's asked thereafter, there is no extension of time afforded
.y,.
y tw "N
72
! avid 5 the Commission.
If the commission sends something to 2
~
NRC staff for further answers to, 'of course there's no 3
extension of time permitted.
i
/
i When you get an executive branch response back, 5
assuming it was asked af ter the --
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would assume Jim --
7 correct me if this is wrong -- I would assume that if 8
there are questions asked of the executive branch during 9
the first 60 days, the result probably would be a revised 10 submission of some kind of the original staff paper that 11 came up.
12 MR. SHEA:
From the NRC staff to the Commission?
I would think
-- or a srpplemen't addressing that issue.
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
So in that case it 15 would really seem like it would be ah -- (Inaudible) 'c-of 16 the system that you are establisling.
17 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
So you would like to use this --
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I'm just talking through 19 this. 'For the second set where you're saying -- asking the question in addition or asking an additional, that is, 21 a later stage question to the executive branch or a later 22 stage question of the NRC staff.
Then I think your issue 23 is more appropriate for a separate procedure.
24 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Okay.
,ce Federal Reporters, Inc.
l-25 YOu mean a shorter one, three days IG.KELLEE:
i k
I
73 david 6 instead of five?
No automatic extension?
2 Well, all I'm saying is COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
l 3li i2 it's one of the series of questions asked to the i
executive branch during that first 60 days, it will 5
probably lead to a supplementary staff paper or something 6
which.would really then just initiate the whole procedure.
7 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Would you like to adopt a 8
shorter procedure in those cases where it's asked after the 9
initial 60 days?
10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I will defer to some 11 of the gentlemen on my lef t.
12 MR. KELLEY: Well, even in the first 60 what 13 you're asking for is supplemental information in drafting 14 a generic rule.
Isn't it reasonable to assume it ought 15 to take less time to digest, since after all, the 16 executive branch gave you their views, what they thought was necessary from the first go round.
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That all depends on 19 whether you have concluded there is a glaring hole in 20 the original material that was provided.
It's very 21 difficult to have completed your own analysis of that situation holding in abeyance the filling of this 23 l
glaring hole.-
1 1
24 4
And then when the glaring hole is filled in, i
se..p.cor.i neoort,ri, inc.
it all snaps quickly into place.
Ordinarily what one does
4 74 I
david 7 is just put the whole issue aside until the glaring 2
hole'is filled.
l MR. KELLEY: But the glaring hole should be the i!-
exception, not the rule.
If you're drafting a rule now 5
you _want to set up the time periods that assume not 6
a glaring hole, but a piece; if you fill it in, a request 7
for extension on good :cause shorn you can always cover the 8
glaring hole case on a case by case basis.
9 It seems to me arguably you can go for three 10
~
days - here with no automatic extension and a majority --(inaudible) 11 And you can get that majority if there were a glaring 12 hole.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That sounds reasonable, 14 except for the statement way back in the beginning, your 15 statement, glaring hole being the exception rather than the 16 rule.
I7 (Laughter.)
IO COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I agree with that.
(Laught6r.)
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It sounded reasonable.
Somebody 21 summarize it for me.
Summarim the proposition for me.
22-It sounded all right, but as Vic occasionally remarks, the 23 brain is beginning to soften, and I've lost it.
24 MR. KELLTY: I think the alternatives are once ic2 Fooetal Reporters, Inc.
25
.you get back supplemental' views, you can have one or two l
.I
7 75 I
david 8 systems.
You can go back to the original system, 2
five days, three days, majority vote, or you can assume 3
that it won't be that big a matter to absorb and you t
can go'for three days, no automatic extension and go to 5
a majority for any; extension beyond three days.
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That sounds reasonable 7
to me.
8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Preferences?
9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I expressed mine.
10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
You were in the active 11
. conversation.
You ought to understand this, John.
What 12 is your preference?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
As he stated the options,
14 do you agree with the options?
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I guess I would -- still 16 struggling with trying to recollect the occasions where I7 this would'really be operable --
18 Peter, where do you come out?
19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I am also -- this is l
20 when you have a response back?
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
This is when you didn't get 22 an extension of time that was asked after a day 60 question.
MR. KELLEY: Really either.
24
- c. Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
- deferred, j
l
...,,'s.
.g..
76.
r..
I Lvid9
~ MR. l ROTHSCHILD:
You're talking about both 2
Cases.now.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's'what it'says here, f
t 4
if action has been~ deferred.
-CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Either, that's'right.
0 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
So that there already 7
has been a positive action to defer.
8
. COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The first thing that A
I.may be missing -- Jim, when action comes back on a l
10-question from the State Department, is there normally a 11 process of staff analysis on the new information?
j 12 MR. SHEA:
'There is normally or at least an examination of it.
And sometimes'it takes a fairly short time to look at it and merely transmit it down.
15 Otherwise, it may take awhile to analyze the staff views.
16 They are coordinated around the different offices, so I7
'it usually takes. a little while to do that.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
So that it's at least I
19 possible leaving aside the question or the situation where O
the. answer comes back :in paragraph form or something.
It's-2)
.at least possible:that you'll be.looking at a good piece.
~
of work,'not dissimilar to the. original.
ICHAIRMAN-HENDRIE:
It's possible.
24 i
COMMISSIONER-BRADFORD:
I would be inclined me..%.r.: n oorters, inc.
L morec or 11ess' to go to the original framework, always with q
,m.-
.,-e--
I
77 avid 10 the hope that one could shorten it.
y COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think I would too.
3 Af ter all, what we're really trying to do is tighten I
up ' the procedures and this is a step in that direction.
5 Now, if af ter trying this' for awhile it still isn't 6
tight enough, we can always go back and tighten it some 7
more.
O CHAIRNAN HENDRIE:
I recognize that.
Let me 9
try a minor variation.
10 When you get answers back five days and 11 fromthere on a majority -- a majority to extend time.
Would 12
'that be unreasonable?
I'm thinking about the number of 13 cases on which we have questions that are outstanding.
I#
Answers come in, and I'm trying to visualize 15 what those cases then look like if you then start the 16 five day, four automatic extension, by a majority from there.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
So what you're suggesting 18 now is dropping out four automatic.
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I was going to drop the 20 fouri automatic to try to pull it' back in a little bit.
2I
_ COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
What incidentally --
22 at the end of five days the Commissioner circulates a 23 memorandum to the others saying, I need an extension of L
24 pp
@edM, M
- w. Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 how long.do we --
l
\\
l l
'1.,.
78 davidll I
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Do the Commissioners get the 2
response?
3
(. Laughter.)
4 MR. KELLEY: That's a serious question.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That's a serious question, 6
and let me tell you --
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's a second order 8
term.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It's second order, but it may 10 dominate.
It's precisely the contemplation of that kind II of additional increment that led me to say -- to vote 12 for myself back up there in 1-B.
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The five days is almost-Id certain to become six.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Inevitably.
And if we bog 16 down and can't get a vote out of the Commission, why, 17 you know, the whole thing just disintegrates.
Let me 18 inject as a potential -- as a help to cure that, let us I9 understand that when we talk about a majority to extend or 20 a ' majority not to extend, that as soon as we get three 21 votes one way or the other, that settles it.
22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
In-this situation.
23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That'is where I've asked 24.
for 'an extension --
Ace Fadcret Reporters, Inc,
,s 2
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, of course.
.+
79 1vid12 I
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Sent a memo saying to all 2
of you,I'd like an extension.
'I ~wouid' not like ' the --
~
3 as Chairman I would not like to see the resolution of j
l
^
4 that hang because one-of you neglects to vote on the 5
issue for a month.
6 (Laughter.)
7 MR.KELLEY :
Simpler than that is tiw6 concurrents, 8
is what your operationally getting into.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That's right, since the 10 guy'who requests it, presumably will_ vote for himself.
II He just needs two concurrents, and he's got a majority.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Or three people voting 13 against it.
I4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Or three voting against it, 15 that's right.
Okay, but.as soon as we get three one way 16 or the other, that would settle that.
That would help a 17 little bit.
And it' helps in the case where somebody's 18 out of town,-isn't going to be back for weeks, you can't I9 get the final vote or something like that.
Okay.
20 But back then to.the question of answers, five 21 days, and then.it either moves or the majority either 22 extends or says no, we won't extend.
23 Is that going to work?
24
.MR. CHILK:
Yes,'you could make.it work. ~
- Acc.Feocrat Reporters. Inc.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I'm sure you could make it
.~
80 dadidl3 work.
2-CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
As a substitute for this 3
I procedure, how would you like_to turn all these things over to me?-
0 (Laughter.)
6 Sam, when people go out for information, 7
very'often Commissioners who might otherwise have been 8
ready to vote, will.then hold their votes.
I do myself 9
very often to see what comes back.
One may very well 10 arrive and at the end of the period when you -- the endrof 11 the response period'you have now got the answer back and 12 there in fact be no votes on the table.
13 Does it make any sense then to talk about a Id five day period?
At that point there isn't any majority 15 that has gelled.
16 MR. CHILK:
You have to start the original I7 procedure all over again.
But we have very few of those.
IO CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Am I talking myself into saying we go back to step one and start at that point?
20 MR. CHILK:
We might as.well try what you have 21
-suggested, which seems very reasonable, and see how it 22 works.- I don't think there are enough of those instances.
23
_ COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Remember, the one 24 i
thing.that's a little different about this situation is that
- w. FCserel Reporters, Inc, 25
, presumably if there's any question at all once the material
81 I
david 14 and the question has come back, this is likely to be'one of 2
the harder cases, a case in which there may really be 3
some time to be spent in the preparation of opinions and 4
what have you.
That's not to say that it's,
I should think 6
at all likely that three Commissioners would ever handle 7
it in such a way that,the minority couldn't prepare whatever 8
opinion they thought they had to, ' but these are likely to 9
be the very cases in which there is going to be a real need 10 for extended time.
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Extended time, in which case q
12 it probably would be apparent in the first few days that 13 you look at it.
14 Do you think then the five and then go to 15 majority is sufficient, or do you want to go back and start --
16 I mean, which way does that conclusion lead you?
17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, I guess it leads me 18 to think that this prevision is of limited unefulness.
At i
19 that point in the case you are getting more and more f
out of the. cases that our regular dragging system is 21 well suited to.
I don't mind applying the five --
22
'?HAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The only thing that would
^
24 Y
we..Fedrul Reporters, Inc.
25 I
were to handle it oppressively, and I suppose there would be j
Y 82 david 15L
'I-other remedies :for that.
It's hard for me to imagine
+
2
. any group of three Commissioners simply saying to the 3
.other two, even though this.is a complicated case, you are not going to'have time to make your decisions.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:.It seems to me that we have 0
tried 'to avoid that kind of action.
7 Okay.
five days and then a majority.
Now, with 8
this somewhat scattered,but for me at least, highly 9
useful discussion, do you~think you can frame now a 10
. statement of the. Commission's procedures for handling these
. things which we understand is not a legal proposition in 12 any way, but is something that we have discussed and agreed
'I3
' we will try to work to.
Id MR.. KELLEY : (Nodding affirmatively.)
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:' All of my vote is 16.
still contingent --
I7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I understand.
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You said 40 days when you started.
That sounds fine with me.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Okay.
Now, let's move ahead 2L and see about where we come out, and I think it's not 22 far'from that point.
23 They think they car write this up.
As I look 24 at it.it looks like th.s:
the five day normal, initial l
k g..i n.im n.;..ioc.
25 suspense working day, to that you add the four day automatic,
83 c
I david 16 and you've got~a period which is likely to occur in most 2
cases.
I think there's a fair chance that one or the 3l other will need the additional four days on most cases.
1 So I think one would have to regard as a working 5
norm the nine day or nine working day period.
6 Now, what that.means, as Ock has pointed out, 7
either 11 or it could' be as much as 13 calendar days.
O So, let's convert it to 13 calendar days.
And that 's 9
thetime in which the statute functions.
I think I would 10 prefer --
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
45?
I2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
What are you talking about?
13 This is the time for the staff --
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
We're trying to sort of see 15 whatthe staff latest date is.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I thought Jim said 30, 17 MR. SHEA:
These days you are talking about, 18
, the 13 is the time in the Commission.
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes.
MR. SHEA:
And so you're subtracting from the 21 60 and coming up with the 45-ish?
CEAIRMAN.HENDRIE:
Seeing where it comes out.
3 we'll see where we want to adjust from there.
I think it
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may need a couple of days past that to execute the actions
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25 that.are' supposed to be taken, so you're at about 15 days,
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david 17
'and I wonder --
it suggests to me then that the staff 2
deadline as we have defined it ought to be in the range 3
either 40 or 45 days of the Commission's 60.
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would go in the S
other direction.
I think it's much more useful to give the 6
Commissioners more time, and I would cut that back down.on 7
staff time.
O CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
40?
9
. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would go to 30.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Jim, could you make.30?
11 MR. SHEA:
It's tighter, but we could try.
12 It;is-tight, though.
Once we get procedures rolling on 13 the' cases,'it's a possibility.
It's a target I'd like to shoot for.
C.OMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Where does the 30 days 16 get taken up, really?
Is it a matter of writing your I7 statement?
I get the impression a lot of it ends up being 8
negotiating among offices and so on.
I think if there 19 were a deadline, that would just move faster.
20 MR.'SHEA:
Not necessarily.
A large part of 21 the problem. has been ' just the large number of cases and 22 their complexity that we have had to deal with and the 23 limited numbe'r of people dealing with several of these, l
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L so' that we sometimes are unable to deal with the case see. Federal Reporters, Inc, 25 immediately.upon its arrival and be also dealing with some
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lavidl8 other urgent ones we have to go through.
2 And we try to move along the most urgent ones 3l rather than, as this system would envision, moving everything
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4 along in a nice programmed way.
That's been our problem 5
up to now.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
If this system would 7
envision moving everything along and giving the most 8
attention to the higher priority and recognizing on some 9
of the lower priority ones that may not get that much 10 attention --
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
The lower priority ones 12 don't even come to us, or at least many of them don't.
MR. SHEA:
What I mean by priority, they*
14 may be ones that need to be reviewed by the Commission --
15 there is a distinction between Commission review and 16 priority.
The priority may be because the applicant is 17 facing immediate shipping date or a reactor is shutting down 18 or something like that.
19 (Laughter.)
0 Which you know we take those concerns and 21 convey those to you.
Sometimes it is a case of a reactor 22 that's facing a shutdown, and it's a serious matter.
23 There are some -- those we try to move along more quickly, 24
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same handful working on the cases.
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.. avid 19 And the routine will help because we want to
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2 write staff paper and' clear it around, although we usually 3'
- clear the cases.
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I gather you would go 5
for 30, Peter?
0 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, I still have a 7
question or-two.
It seemed to me that what we want 8
as a target date is one that's realistic in terms of 9
what Jim thinks he can meet.
I It ought also to be one that on occasion he II can get an extension beyond without a meeting or throwing 12 the Commission beyond the 60 days.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Right.
s I#
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
So it sounds like 15 realistically we're talking something in the 35 to 40 16 range.
It sounds as though 30 may pinch.
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COMMISSINER AHEARNE:
30, 35 to 40.
How about 35?
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COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That way...they get a five-2 day extension without automatically nushine the Conr.ission into 3
the 65th day.
4 MR. GOSSICK:
Why don't we try it for 40 days on 5
this trial period while we're going to collect some other data 6
and see how we can do..
If we can beat that, we'll give you 7
more time.
If it looks like the best we can do --
8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
In terms of the scheme that you w re working back, Joe --
9 e
10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That would provide about a 11 five-calendar-day slack.
12 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
You are going to have a couple of 13 days for distribution of pcpers.
14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I added two days to the 13 to 15 get 15.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
But, see, Joe, Peter's point 17 is a very good point, in that what he's pointing out is that 18 if you go to something like 40 and then Jim has a problem and 19 he gets a five-day extension, it's now on the line to meet the 20 60.
If you go to 35 and he gets a five-day extension, he 21 could actually get another five-day ext'ension.
22 So, it's sort of a question of where is the 23 crunch likely to come?
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I just think with the staffing 25 level and the sort of workload in the office out there, I ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
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don't.think you can do.much better.
I think you're going to 2
have a lot o'f. trouble making it in 45 days.
3 MR. SHEA:
I am sure we will.
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
We came in and offered a 5 30 split in the beginning.
6 MR. SHEA:
Again, I was putting that in terms of a 7
target and a goal I would like to shoot f.or, but one that is 8
very difficult to meet at this time but then harder to meet 9
the last few months.
10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Oiven the fact that it can JI slip into that second 60 anyway, 40 might be reasonable.
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I recommend we try 40 days and 13 see three, four months or whatever down the line how we are 14 making out.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Okay.
40.
16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Okay, now, I will certainly 17 accept that, but when you try 40 you will never know whether 18 35 would have been a.11 right.
If you tried 35, you may find 19 o u t --
20 COMMI.SSIONER AHEARNE:
But we will begin to know, 21 though, after a little.while, how hard is it on us to meet 60 22 given 40; and if it turns out it's a real strain and we're not 23 able to make 60, then we can go back to Jim and ask him af ter 24 he's had some experience with meeting 40, realistically, how 25 much could he take now.
6 em-zwast m.mmam m e2e23m-neo
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.a 89 154.06.3 pv-I COMMISSIONER ERADFORD:
That's right.
The only 2
thing you lose is ' that there may be a certain number of 3
licenses that actually get out five dayr earlier than working 4
with 40.
But, es I-said, if that's the consensus, that's 5
fine.
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, my view is,
this time 7
for the staff report to arrlve is a latest time --
8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD2 I have heard enough about 9
it.
10 (Laughter.)
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I am just sayings if it 12 magically turned out there was another on the average five 13 days available in there, why, I would expect and hope that we 14 would get it.
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I agree with that, having 16 already voiced the same sentiment about Commissioner behavior.
t 17 and being laughed out of town --
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, you're on much shakier 19 9round there, Peter.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Could I ask another 21 clarification question?
Throughout this, we have been talking 22 about "ma jor'i ty of the Co mmission. "
I presume that always 23 means three out of five, not a majority of those-voting, which 24 could then' mean two' out of three.
25 MR. KELLEY - With the. exception of the case you i
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spoke of with, three vot.e.s is enough that wanted extension.
2 Wasn't there agreement on that point?
3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
But the three votes -- in 4
the majority of the Commission, three votes is required.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I have been thinking of it in 6
terms of three votes and not a majority of a quorum, which is 7
two.
8 COMMI.SSIONER AHEARNE:
And so have I, but I wanted 9
to be --
10 MR. KELLEY:
But there was that one exception, was 11 there not, or did I mishear that?
j 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I don't think so.
I think 13 it always required three. votes.
1 14 MR. KELLEY:
Three affirmative votes.
15 MR. ROTHSCHILDJ What happens if you only have 16 three participating Commissioners?
17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, in the situationwhere yok 18 have a Commissioner for some reason who is disqualified or a 19 situation where there were four Commissioners, then, I 20 suppose, that question takes on some importance.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You'd still need thr.ee.
22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Only three to get the 23 extension, or, would you still need three to send the 24 export?
25 MR. KELLEY:
A majority of three out of four.
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MR. ROTHSCHILD:
W 2
three Commissioners?
.(.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Then it's two.
4 MR. KELLEY:
We know that.
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE
.Well, there might come a time 6
when somebody is sick or.away or in conflict for some. reason 7
or another on a case, and we might have -- on a specific case 8
we can conceivably get down to just three, and.then in that 9
case I think we just simply have to agree on that case that 10 the majority rule covers.
11 Why don't we wait for it to rear its ugly head and 12 deal with it specif-ically?
13 MR. ROTHSCHILDs Two more questions while we. are
(
14 heres one, do we need to address what are we going to do on 15 subsequent arrangement, a 30-day period?
16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE I'll be damned if I know.
17 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Are we going to cut these figures 19 proportionately?
, hat do you think?
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2 W
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I guess I would have to 21 really see'a' proposal on it.
22 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
I st us come _up with something.
23 MR. KELLEY:
Why don't we think about that?
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIEs okay.
25 MR. SHEA 30- and 20-day, two different technology L4
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' exports for.30 and. subsequent for 20.
2 CHAIRMAN HEN!P.IE:
idow, 20?
3 MR. SHEA: on proceseing, retransfers, yes.
4 CHAlRMAN HENDRIE Okay.
Write this thing up as 5
we've'got it, make us a proposition on subseouent l
6 arrangements, technology transfers that we can scratch odr 7
heads on.
The balance of the items at the administrative meet'ing are herewith postponed to the next ekition of 8
9 this meeting.
10 I think it's been a very useful discussion, by and 11 large.
I don't know if the procedures will hel'p that much, 12
.but the discussing, ge.tting on with it, and how to move with 13 it, is, because.there have been some lapses of time to worry 14 about.
15 (Whereupon, at 4: 20 p..m.,
the meeting was 16 adjourned.)
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