ML20150E239
| ML20150E239 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 07/06/1988 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8807150044 | |
| Download: ML20150E239 (69) | |
Text
N UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
BRIEFING C'N EEO PROGRAM i
Location:
ONE WH]TE FLINT NORTI?, ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND Date:
WEDNI SDAY, JULY 6, 1988 Pages:
1-50 Ann Riley & Associates Court Reporters 1625 i Street, N.W., Suite 921
'h Washington, D.C. 20006
/
(202) 293-3950 g
hhk71
(;
4 880706 8807150044 PDC
e k
DISCLAIMER This' is an unof ficial transcript of 'a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held 7 88 on in the Commission's office at One White Flint North, Rockville, Maryland.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been rev'iewed, corrected or edited, and.it may contain inaccuracies.
The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the
["
matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with.the Commission in any proceeding as.the result of, or addressed to, any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
f
1 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 BRIEFING ON EEO PROGRAM 5
6 PUBLIC MEETING 7
8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission
('
9 One White Flint North 10 Rockville, Maryland 11 12 Wednesday., July 6, 1988 13 14 The Commission met in open session, pursuant to 15 notice, at 10:00 o' clock, a.m., the Honorable LANDO W.
- ZECH, 16 Chairman of the Commission, presiding.
17 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
18 LANDO W.
- ZECH, Chairman of the Commission 19 THOMAS M. ROBERTS, Member of the Commission 20 KENNETH ROGERS, Member of the Commission 21 22 23 Y
24 25
. _ ~ _
2 1
STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT THE COMMISSION TABLE:
,i 2
3 S. CHILK 4
W. PARLER S
V. STELLO 6
W. KERR 7
S.
PETTIJOHN 8
R. TRIPATHI e
9 P. BIRD 10 L. COBB 11 J. SOUDER 12 C.
SAKENAS L
13 14 15 16 C
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
o 3
1 PROCEEDINGS
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2 (10:00 a.m.)
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
4 This morning we're going to hear a progress report on NRC's S
Equal Employment Opportunity Program.
The NRC staff and our 6
employee advisory committees are meeting with the Commission to 7
discuss the status of our equal employment opportunity efforts I
8 and our efforts to achieve the goals and objectives that we've 9
set out.
10 We last had a meeting on November 19, 1987 and this 11 morning Commissioner Carr will not be with us.
He's on travel.
f Today we'll hear a number of presentations.
I believe the 12
(
13 staff has done an outstanding job in responding to the 14 questions and issues that we raised at the November briefing.
15 I would like to indicate however that we received 16 this information very late.
I know my colleagues and I have
,e 17 not had a chance to go over it as carefully as we could.
I 18 understand there was an administrative problem that somewhere 19 or other the information did not get to the Commission offices 20 until just a few days ago.
21 As we all know the agency is charged with a very 22 important mission that is involving the public health and 23 safety of our fellow citizens.
We attempt to satisfy that I
24 mission with people.
These people look to us to ensure that l
25 they have a chance to assist us in carrying out our important
4 1
mission and do so in an environment of satisfaction and i
2 fairness.
3 This is proper of course and our EEO policies are 4
very important to our people and therefore to the successful 5
accomplishment of our mission.
Ultimately our success or 6
failure in the EEO area depenf~ on large part on the decisions 7
made at the working level of our staff and it is up to us, the 8
leadership of this agency, to develop the appropriate policy 9
guidance and then it is up to us to make sure that the guidance
^
10 reaches these working levels where it will be implemented.
11 So that's a challenge that we all have.
As we go 12 through the presentation today, I believe we should be looking
[
i.
13 for constructive ways to improve so that each employee does 14 recognize that this agency is committed to fairness and to 15 aqual opportunity.
I believe that it's necessary that we view 16 our equal opportunity goals as a challenge and again, I would 17 suggest that we emphasize ways that we can improve and be as 18 constructive as possible.
19 Do any of my fellow commissioners have any comments 20 they would wish to make before we begin?
If not, Mr. Stello, 21 would you proceed please?
22 MR. STELLO:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and if I may, 23 I'll start with introducing those of us here at the table
/
24 starting off if I can, I'll ask you to raise your hand.
To the 25 far left is Mr. Pettijohn, who is the chairperson for the l
5 1
Blacks In Government.
Mrs. Tripathi, who is the Affirmative
(
2 Action Advisory Chairperson.
To my immediate left is Mr. Kerr 3
who you know and to my immediate right, Paul Bird and Lana Cobb 4
who is the chairperson on the Committee On Age Discrimination.
5 Jonah Souder who is the EEO Advisory Committee Chairperson.
6 Carol Sakenas who's the chairperson of the Federal Women's 7
Program Advisory Committee.
8 I thought maybe I would start with at least observing e
-9 some of the things that are intangible -- that relate directly 10 to the discussion that we're having.
That's the sensitivity 11 and the attitude of the managers in the agency.
I think I've 12 heard from Paul and his people and others that they see an
['~
%m 13 increased and enhanced sensitivity in the program in ways that 14 are significant and important in the selection of people for 15 advancement where a specific effort is made to look at whether 16 there are women and minorities available for those positions.
C 17 Those questions are asked.
They're looked at and 18 deliberately included in the process.
Activities such as those 19 towards -- the sensitivity is there, the questions are being 20 asked.
I think I can say I see a significant improvement.
21 Now where you have to measure whether you are i
22 achieving it is of course in terms of the actual progress that 23 you've made in connection with these programs and if you look 24 at the agency we are in a situation where that's difficult to 25 make a lot of progress simply because our total number of
6 1
employees are coming down and we are not growing at the rate we t
2 had been in the past so the opportunities are fewer.
3 Even given that environment, I think we can say and 4
the data we will show, show some improvement.
Now we do this 5
every six months so you're not going to get significant changes 6
in the periods of time such as six months but I think even over 7
those periods of time as we report to the commission and we 8
compare to where we were in the past and on some of the charts r'
9 I think you will see substantial, significant improvement when 10 you look over where we were a number of years ago.
11 I'll let the others provide you with the data and summarize it for you.
Mr. Kerr will begin and talk about some 12 i
13 of the other programs that we have and finally according to the 14 agenda, we will allow the EEO Advisory Committees to give you a 15 summary of their views.
So without any further introduction, 16 perhaps I can ask Mr. Kerr to start and describe to you the 17 progress we made in our EEO programs in a number of areas and 18 where we haven't to identify those areas where we haven't and 19 what some of the reasons are.
20 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right.
Thank you very much.
Mr.
21 Kerr?
You may proceed.
22 MR. KERR:
Thank you.
This time frame for the 23 information we receive today will be from the end of September 24 through the 31st of May.
25 (Slide.)
a 7
1 MR. KERR:
When you look at the first chart in your i
2 packet, the percent of minorities and women, during the last 3
eight months the percentage of minorities on staff increased 4
from 17.8 percent to 18.1 percent and women from 32.6 percent 5
to 32.8 percent.
Turn to the next page.
The numbers of 6
minorities and women at GG-11 and above.
There was an increase 7
in both minorities and women at GG-11 and above since last 8
September.
9 Minorities went from 282 to 293 and women from 364 10 to 375.
11 MR. STELLO:
I might add, Mr. Chairman, to make the 12 point I made, if you look at the trends since 1977 I think Is.
13 there you are able to see that the agency has made substantial, 14 significant inprovement.
15 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Yes.
Thank you.
16 MR. KERR:
Go to your next page.
17
[ Slide.)
18 MR. KERR:
I want to focus in on the block to the 19 right.
This is distribution of males.versus females at GG-13 20 through 18.
The grades 13 through 18, the number of women went 21 down from 87 to 84, grade 14.
However, we went from 109 to 119 22 at grade 13 and an increase from 27 to 36 at grade 15.
23 We also added to women at the supergrade of GG-16.
/
24 The percentage increase was positive at all the grades 13 25 through 16.
On your next page.
The distribution of minorities i
8 1
for grades 13 through 18.
Grades 13 and above for minorities 2
there was a loss of six at GG-13 from 71 to 65 and a loss of 3
one at GG-14 from 116 to 115.
4 (Slide.)
5 MR. KERR:
However, this is fset by the increase of 6
nine minorities at GG-15, from 46 to 55 plus two new GG-16s, 7
the number went from two to four.
8 Our next page is SES within the agency.
9 (Slide.)
10 MR. KERR:
We have increased the number of minorities 11 by two in the SES but remain at seven for the number of women.
12 Currently, we have 12 minority SES and still remain at seven
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13 Women.
14 CHAIRN N ZECH:
All right.
15 MR. KERR:
The next'page will show the discrimination 16 complaints within the agency.
We've had a significant increase C
17 in complaints since the last briefing.
Since January alone, we've add'd 20 complaints, most based upon age.
Although these 18 e
19 are 20 separate complaints, they have essentially been filed by 20 six individuals each time they are not selected for a 21 promotion.
All of the complaints are in various stages of 22 administrative processing and since the date of this report, 31 23 May, we have settled three complaints.
One age complaint and 24 two sex discrimination complaints.
25 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Does this mean that only regions II
=
9 1
and IV had complaints?
The other regions did not?
Is that t
2 what one should imply from this chart?
3 MR. KERR:
That's true.
4 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right, thank you.
5 MR. KERR:
On the 14th of June, we responded to the 6
January 5 SRM.
Paul Bird and I would like to discuss a couple 7
of the items and then talk about as.y others that you so desire.
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right.
r' 9
MR. KERR:
We were asked to look at the EEO programs 10 at EPA and FERC for any discernible differences from ours.
We 11 didn't find any except that their ability to exceed our
{ -
accomplishment for women in the SES -- specifically 12 13 administrative and legal.
Although we exceed a 26 percent s_
14 civilian workforce availability for women attorneys, we still 15 have a shortfall within SES.
The primary reason is that we 16 have very little turnover not only in the legal SES but also 17 the administrative areas.
18 Likewise, at EPA, 50 percent of their SES positions 19 are in the administrative and legal occupations and FERC has 19 20 percent of its SES positions among its legal staff.
We have 21 much less than that.
Further, we were also asked to look at 22 why the regions attained greater hiring success than 23 headquarters last year.
/
24 We assigned 15 hiring goals for FY
'87, 12 in the 25 regions and three in headquarters.
The region: hired eight
a 10 1
against their goal of 12 and headquarters zero.
That's because i
2 the anticipated vacancies at headquarters, for which we had 3
levied the goals against, did not materialize.
Paul?
4 MR. BIRD:
Okay.
I just wanted to comment on a 5
couple of subjects.
If I could have the first slide, please.
6 (slide.)
7 MR. BIRD:
This shows the distribution of staff from 8
July of 1987 to May of 1988.
You can notice at the top the e'
9 loss in the white male population both percer> v >-w' a and in 4
10 overall numbers.
If you do the math, it's a ross of about 70 11 white males out of 100 losses in the agency.
As far as
/ ^
minorities are concerned, we went up slightly in the minority 12 l
13 female population and down slightly in the minority male 14 population in whole numbers, but again, our percantages held up 15 fairly well in that time span.
16 The white female population dropped slightly and that i
17 actually constitutes a loss of 30 white females out of the 18 population but given the total loss of 100 this basically gives 19 you the distribution of what's occurred since last July.
20 (Slide.)
21 Two of the areas we wanted to comment on today were 22 rotational assignments and interagency training.
At the top of 23 this chart, you can see the distribution of staff really l i 24 carried over from the previous page against the percentages and i
25 numbers of both rotational assignments and interagency training
11 c
1 incidents that we had during the year.
2 There were actually 17 rotational assignments that 3
occurred in the time frame.
These are non-SES rotations.
4 Women constituted 52.9% of those, minority females, 17.6 and 5
minority males, 5.9% of the rotations done.
That is out of a 6
total of 17 rotations.
7 We feel that this rotational process that we are now 8
codifying and issuing as far as information and policy of the e-9 agency is working and we believe that we can increase these 10 numbers.
We wanted to have a period in which we tried this 11 rotational process to see if it had worked.
We actually took 12 about a year in the trial stage and now are ready to pursue s
13 this further.
14 Some of the office directors have already commented 15 to me that they intend to do a lot more in this area and we 16 believe in the next year that we'll have a substantial increase 17 in the total number of these rotations again.
Hopefully the 18 focus will continue to be somewhat on women and minorities 19 getting in visible positions throughout the agency.
20 In interagency training on the other side of the 21 chart, again you can see the distributions there.
We think 22 this is a good sample of the effort that is going on in the 23 training area.
This particular one refers to the interagency 24 training and if you look at what it includes, it is what we 25 really believe is the most significant training that we do in
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I 12 1
the agency, which involves the Women's Executive Leadership t
2 Program, the Mid-Level Executive Potential Program, 3
Congressional Fellowships, the Federal Executive Institute and 4
the Executive Seminar Centers.
5 The total of 57 events occurred in interagency 6
training in the past year.
Again, I felt that we had good 7
minority and female representation in the mix that we 8
accomplished in the past year.
9 May I have the next chart, please?
10 (Slide.)
11 The next chart is a comparison of employees' 12 training, both females and minorities, and in interpreting the w
13 chart we asked the queation, "of the total population, what 14 percent received training in the time frames that are shown on 15 the page?"
16 As you can see, looking across from left to right, 17 women have compared very favorably in the previous years to '88 18 with the total population and the number in the population of 19 women who received training.
Minorities have not fared as well 20 as the total population.
We are not quite sure why that's 21 occurred over the years but we are going to be locking at that 22 now to try to see if there is any pattern there or if there's 23 any reason for that to have occurred.
24 Next slide, please.
25 (Slide.)
I 13 1
The is the same table but only at the grades 13 2
through 15 levels.
Again reading left to right, you can see 3
that the women in 1984 through 1987 exceeded the number of 4
incidents for the total population and again minorities were 5
less than the total, looking across from left to right.
6 Next slide, please, is the grades 9 through 12.
7 (Slide.]
8 And again there is a fairly equal distribution, with j
r-9 minorities in 197 and 1988 showing less training in that 10 particular grade span.
11 The last chart, please, in this sequence.
12 (Slide.)
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13 I'm sorry, it's not the last.
It's the next to last.
14 This is the grades 5 through 8.
Again you can see the whole 15 numbers that are shown there.
This is of the women and minorities in those populations, what percent received 16 17 training.
Again the minorities show less percantage in 18 training received than the women and less than the total 19 population.
20 The last slide, please.
21 (Slide.)
22 In this population of 1 through 4, first you can 23 notice that there are not a lot of people in that population 24 and so there's great fluctuation in the percentages with a few 25 changes, but again the pattern is consistent that the
14 1
minorities in that population received less training than the I.
2 women in the population or the total agency.
3 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Those series of charts clearly 4
indicate then that this is c way we can improve --
5 MR. BIRD:
Yes.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
-- by training of minorities.
7 MR. BIRD:
Certainly.
8 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
So I hope you take that on as
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9 something that you will watch carefully because unless you can 10 show, you know, good reasons for this, it would appear that 11 this is clearly a way we can improve.
12 MR. BIRD:
I agree with that and again we are going 13 to try to do some more exploratory work to determine why this 14 has occurred.
Training is basically a two-way exercise.
The 15 managers on the one hand and the employees on the other will --
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
But it is consistent all the way 17 through.
18 MR. BIRD:
Consistent all the way through.
19 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
And that would lead me to believe 20 that this is clearly a way we could improve.
21 MR. BIRD:
I certainly hope so.
22 Could I have the next slide, please?
23 (Slide.)
24 I want to illustrate our professional recruitment 25 efforts again in the time frame of the past year.
Entry level
c 15 1
hiring, we have made 9 entry level hires.
Three of those were 2
women and 2 were minorities of the 9 and there is no double 3
counting represented in these numbers, so there were 3 women, 2 4
minorities, a total of 5 out fo 9 at the entry level.
5 For full performance level, and this means people 6
that cam in that are fully competent at the higher grade levels 7
who were hired into the agency, we have hired 55 in that 8
category.
Of those 55, 10 were women and 9 were minorities, r-9 Again, I think we have had fairly good success in our 10 recruitment efforts and efforts in this past year and hopefully 11 that trend will continue.
12 At the bottom that is just the total of the two s
13 columns shown.
14 That's the conclusion of what I wanted to point out.
15 I think now Bill and I would respond to any questions you might have on the data we have presented or on the SRM information 16 17 that we provided.
18 19 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I think what I'd suggest is we go 20 through with the other briefings and then we'll have questions 21 later on, after we have heard from the others.
22 MR. KERR:
Before we get to the committees, I would 23 like to talk about some of other EEO efforts that we have done.
24 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Certainly.
Go right ahead.
25 MR. KERR:
Because of some of the problems we have i
. ~, >
16
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had, particularly with complaints within the agency, we have l
1 N-
)
l 2
had two senior management training sessions in which we trained 3
30 managers, brought them together to discuss the agency's 4
problems.
We are scheduled to have another session next week, 5
Thursday, in which we'll be discussing agency problems aga'in.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Yes.
7 MR. KERR:
We've sent an attorney and my Federal 8
Women's Program manager out to all of the regions as well as
(-
9 the Chattanooga training center to discuss the prevention of 10 sexual harassmant and it was very successful.
11 We got an in-house review of all the major offices' 12 EEO activities and I have been out to talk to each regional g.-
k 13 administrator to talk about their EEO programs, their EEO 14 policies.
Throughout these efforts the senior managers have 15 been very cooperative, supportive and enthusiastic.
In fact, they seem to be thirsting for additional information on how 16 17 they can accomplish their EEO efforts, and with that I'll turn l
18 it over to committees.
19 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Well, before we do that, then, since 1
20 you brought up the subject, Mr. Stello and I attended as you i
l 21 know a meeting of your counselors here, our agency counselors 22 here, not too long ago.
At that meeting I thought several 23 constructive suggestions came up from the counselors and one of 24 them was that they'd hoped that they would be called upon nore 25 frequently to assist management.
I thought that was a very
17
(-
1 constructive comment, a willingness on the part of our 2
counselors, who are taking on this responsibility in addition 3
to their regular duties as I understand, and therefore I do 4
hope that we will follow through and this is one way that our 5
senior management and our middle management also can be 6
assisted in this program by those counselors.
I would hope 7
that we would try to develop a cooperative spirit, a spirit of 8
assistance on the part of -- and a welcomed assistance on the
(-
9 part of our managers to work more closely with our counselors.
10 You recall that suggestion, I believe?
11 MR. KERR:
Certainly.
12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
I hope that we will be following A.
13 through and you will help us to follow through on using our 14 counselors perhaps more effectively than we have in the past.
15 MR. STELLO:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I would 16 suggest perhaps we could just start at the left of the table 17 and go around with Sam, if you would begin.
18 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
You may proceed.
19 MR. PETTIJOHN:
Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my 20 name again is Sam Pettijohn and I am representing the NRC 21 chapter of Blacks in Government.
As always, we are glad to 22 have an opportunity to address the Commission.
23 We have several brief comments.
24 First we believe that the EEO briefings do provide 25 positive evidence of NRC's commitment to equal opportunities
18 1
for employees.
We have had some differences of opinion about 2
results but we continue to see this as an effort that is a very 3
positive force for EEO and NRC and hope to continue to 4
participate.
5 We believe that we can best serve the EEO effort in 6
NRC by providing feedback on the effectiveness of the EEO 7
prcgrams and in that regard I would like to give you one view 8
that we have in regard to the program and it's more a general 9
view but in spite of the progress that we see in regard to 10 hiring as demonstrated by the charts, we are very concerned 11
.that we really are not hitting the nail on the head here and 12 because of that it requires that we continue to straighten out f
s, 13 the nail and start to drive it again and we go back and we make 14 some more progress.
15 We believe we have a few suggestions of some things 16 that we think should be incorporated in the EEO programs that 17 we believe would more focus the programs into where they should 18 be.
19 One is we think that a position should be created in 20 Ostebooker with duties similar to the Federal Women's Program 21 that looks at EEO issues for minority employees.
We just don't 22 think that things will just happen by themselves without some 23 proactive effort on the part of the EEO office.
Our 24 understanding is the way that office works, at least the way it 25 seems to work now, it is reactive to things but it's not really
19 1
proactive in terms of looking at promoting minority employees.
7
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2 We also think that NRC should consider undertaking a 3
study to look at the effect of the normal racial prejudices 4
that we have in society and how they actually impact on some of 5
the disparities that we see in the agency.
We keep making that 6
same point each briefing because we really don't ever believe 7
you are going to ever get at this thing unless we start to 8
include and take a look at that.
r-9 The last suggestion we had was that we believe that 10 managers and supervisors do what managers and supervisors above 11 them require them to do and in that regard we would like to see 12 that you, Mr. Chairman, and the EDO continue to emphasize in g: -
\\.
13 writing to all of the NRC employees that NRC has had a very 14 strong commitment toward EEO and we would like to see that done 15 sufficiently that this sort of becomes a trademark of the agency and not something that we have to work on as a special 16 17 effort.
18 That concludes my comments.
19 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
20 May I just say before we proceed, Mr. Pettijohn, I 21 thought those comments were very constructive and that's what d
22 we are here for.
We appreciate it very much, I appreciate it 23 very much.
24 MR. PETTIJOHN:
Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN '3ECH:
You may proceed.
a 20 1
MS. TRIPATHI:
Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, I am Raji Tripathi, Acting Chair of the Affirmative Action Advisory 2
3 Committee.
The AAAC greatly appreciates the opportunity to 4
meet with the commission and share our observations and 5
concerns regarding the agency's Equal Opportunity and 6
Affirmative Action policies and programs.
7 In March of this year, eight out of 15 AAAC members 8
completed their three-year term.
We are pleased to inform the 9
Commission that the staff response to the vacancy announcement 10 was gratifying.
We are currently at full strength with 15 11 members and three alternates.
We believe that this is 12 indicative of the employees' interest in the agency's EEO/AA g"..
~
L 13 programs.
14 The Staff Requirements Memo that was issued following 15 our November briefing to the Commission is encouraging.
We
/>
16 have always been very interested in the rotational program.
We
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17 are equally interested in the results of the future study on 18 Bumping and Retreat Rights.
19 Last week we were pleased to see Announcement 115 on 20 rotational assignments for non-SES employees.
While we applaud 21 this effort, we believe that it has some implementation 22 weaknesses that need to be addressed.
23 Based on the agency separation data as reported in 24 the response to the SRM, the AAAC's concerned that among the 25 professional staff, women are leaving the agency sooner than
s o
1 men.
Does it mean that women have better opportunities 2
elsewhere than in the agency?
We need to examine the 3
underlying reasons.
We believe that a follow-up anonymous 4
survey should be conducted to determine if EEO concerns were 5
among the reasons for the employees leaving the agency.
We 6
recommend that the agency seek professional guidance on how to 7
gain objective responses to such a sensitive issue.
8 Concerning representation in SES by occupation, it is r-9 reported that the agency ranks below the Government-wide level 10 in participation by the legal and administrative employees in 11 the EEO groups.
The response to the SRM recognizes that such 12 individuals should be just as available to the NRC as to the 13 other agencies.
Traditionally, the recognition and promotion 14 potential has been excellent for "technical hot-shots."
Given 15 he agency's mission, we understand the seemingly 16 disproportionate SES awards to the technical professionals.
17 However, as seen in the last agency reorganization, young white 18 males in technical fields appear tc be favored.
We believe 19 that not encouraging the growth of non-technical professionals 20 has the potential for seriously depleting the agency's talented 21 minorities in these areas as some of them would seek better 22 opportunities elsewhere.
23 We recognize the agency's commitment to an aggressive 24 recruitment program.
However, we believe that it is equally 25 crucial to provide growth opportunities to the existing staff
I 22-1 as it is to bring in a wide cross-section of EEO classes and to 2
assure that the system provides equitable career growth 3
opportunities.
4 In the last briefing to the commission, we indicated 5
that in 1986 fewer black employees, regardless of grade and 6
gender, received outstanding ratings, as compared to whites, 7
women and other minorities.
We have reviewed the 198'7 8
performance appraisal data and found that fewer black 9
secretaries receive outstanding ratings than their white 10 counterparts in the same job category.
We are still reviewing 11 the data for possible explanation for the observed disparity.
In the last briefing, former Commissioner Bernthal 12 13 suggested that we loo.k at on-the-job training and time-in-grade 14 of the employees in making our comparison fruitful.
We have 15 given this suggestion due consideration and recognize its 16 validity; however, we do not know if all such data are 17 available and even if they are, we do not have the resources to 18 conduct such a comprehensive analysis with so many variables.
19 We recommend that the office of Personnel (OP) undertake this 20 task.
21 The OP has had plans for an employee opinion survey 22 for quite some time.
Now that the agency has consolidated, we 23 suggest that the survey be conducted concerning opinions on 24 working conditions, commuting, parking facilities and how the 25 employees feel about their professional association with the
23 1
agency.
The study should also include employee opinions on
(
2 training and developmental opportunities, rotational and detail 3
assignments and promotional potential.
Such a survey would 4
also allow the agency to obtain information useful to determine 5
the cause of some EEO concerns.
6 One of the issues affecting employee morale appears 7
to be cancellation of many vacancies and sometimes filling the 8
position with a "peg-legged, one-eyed pirate."
We do not have 9
data on how many --
10 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Excuse me, I'm sorry.
I don't 11 understand what you mean.
12 MS. TRIPATHI:
Sometimes it appears that the vacancy 4.
13 announcements which go on posting, the employees apply for them 14 and then suddenly the vacancy is cancelled.
For sometimes 15 three, four, five six months the employees don't know what the 16 status of their application was and then they find out that the 17 vacancy was filled by somebody and then when they look at the 18 qualifications of that particular individual and you see the 19 job vacancy as to what the requirements were, it seems the job 20 was particularly tailored for the specific individual.
21 In the last six months I had at least seven, eight 22 individuals who appeared to me and asked me, approached me.
23 They asked me what they could possibly do and my only 24 recommendation was to again contact the individual personnel 25 specialist.
This may not be true but it gives an appearance as
24 1
if it.was not a fair competition, that the agency had gone 2
through the motions of posting a vacancy but the vacancy was 3
really -- or the job was actually intended.for the specific 4
individual and was ultimately filled after the vacancy was 5
cancelled.
That's why we are recommending that the office of 6
Personnel should really look at the last two-year data and see 7
how many of such vacancies really do get cancelled and if they 8
were really filled by somebody who was one of the applicants.
,r--
9 The point that I wanted to make as to I think this 10 particular -- these SES cancellations are frequent and the 11
' number is high but it does have a demoralizing effect on the 12 employees.
Many employees think that why should I submit an p-Sc 13 application in four and go through all the paperwork while I 14 know I am not going to get a job.
It's tailored for someone i
15 else and especially women and minorities do feel at a 16 disadvantage because they think that they are not a part of the 17 network and if it is true, we ought to look at it.
If it is 18 true we have got to eliminate it.
If it is not true then I 19 think we should at least do something to convince the employees 20 that this is a fair system.
21 In summary, the agency has indicated that it is 22 sensitive to EEO/AA issues and that some needed policies are 23 being formulated while others are being implemented.
There is 24 a positive note to the agency's assessment of its performance 25 and a commitment to correct more areas where shortcomings
25 1
exist.
However, there are concerns about adequate 2
representation of minorities and women in SES as well as 3
equitable gro:ith potential for various EEO groups.
We believe 4
that we must aggressively continue this trend of self-5 assessment and strive for meeting the agency's EEO/AA goals.
6 That concludes my presentation.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
8 MS. COBB:
Mr. Chairman, commissioners, I am Lana 9
Cobb and I'm with the C0mmittee on Age Discrimination.
e 10 I want to thank you for allowing us this opportunity 11 to tell you about some of our activities.
I'll address two of 12 the current activities and comment on one of our concerns, the 13 Bumping and Retreat Study.
14 During an early briefing of the Comnission, our 15 committee proposed that the NRC adopt a reduction in force 16 procedure similar to other Federal agencies.
Our concern was 17 that as carried out in practice, the current NRC RIF procedure 18 would have a disproportionate impact on older NRC employees.
19 In this connection, we were-also aware that there was 20 concern as to what effect the proposed change would have on 21 women and minority employees.
22 At our last EEO briefing with the commission, we 23 reported that our committee in conjunction with the Affirmative 24 Action Advisory Committee and the Federal Women's Advisory 25 Committee had jointly petitioned the EDO to sponsor a study on
26 1
whether bumping and retreat rights would be afforded to g
2 employees of the NRC in time of reduction-in-force.
3 The question on which the study was to focus was 4
whether the inclusion of bumping and retreat rights would have 5
an adverse impact on women, minorities and older employees.
6 MS. COBB:
We are pleased to report that the EDO has 7
approved this study and are now actively working on this task.
8 The committees jointly formulated the parameters and the 9
guidelines under which the study was to be conducted.
After 10 these parameters were agreed upon, our representative met with 11 the Office of Personnel representatives to advise them of these 12 parameters and to request necessary statistical compilations,
?*.
13 comparing the effect of the present reduction in force 14 procedures and the proposed bumping and retreat procedures 15 would have on employees.
Our representative will work closely with the Office 16 17 of Personnel during all phases of these compilations to assure 18 the accuracy of the data and the timely completion of the 19 study.
Our committee and perhaps the other EEO committees 20 separately or jointly with us will submit a written report to 21 the EDO that summarizes results and makes recommendations 22 regarding the NRC RIF procedures.
23 Performance appraisal analysis.
We have analyzed the 24 March 1987 performance appraisal ratings of the nonsupervisory 25 staf f for statistical evidence of age discri.dnation.
Our
o 1
4 27 1
analysis is based on data provided by the Office of Personnel.
2 The data were compiled and analyzed by occupational code.
The 3
analysis focused on the largest occupational codes which 4
together cover 77 percent of nonsupervisory staff.
5 The only evidence of possible age discrimination was 6
in the occupational codes of engineers and physical scientists.
7 The percentage rating of outstanding is significantly lower for 8
engineers and physical scientists for 50 as compared to those 9
under the age of 50.
This pattern is similar to the 10 performance rating pattern in the last six years.
11 A more detailed report of our findings will be sent 12 to the EDO and to Mr. Kerr.
Our concern.
As noted in the 13 briefing agenda, 33 out of 42 outstanding EEO discrimination 14 complaints within NRC are based on alleged age discrimination.
15 All 33 complaints originated within NRR.
16 We believe this fact indicates the need to understand r
17 the reason or reasons for such a large number of age 18 discrimination complaints and the need to act to eliminate 19 identified employees concerns.
We are aware of the EEO 20 training sessions but we think we should perhaps go beyond this 21 training and get to the problem.
22 our committee recommends that a small task force of 23 two or three persons be appointed to review the reasons behind 24 the pattern for the increasing number of complaints based on 25 allegations of age discrimination.
This task force would then
28 report their findings and recommendations for proposed action 1
2 to prevent or decrease the number of future age complaints.
3 This report would go to the EDO and to Mr. Kerr for 4
consideration and action.
Perhaps in a small way, this can 5
help alleviate employees' concerns.
6 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
7 MS. SOUDER:
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I'm Joana 8
Souder, outgoing chair of the Labor / Management Advisory
(~
9 Committee and as always, I appreciate the opportunity to speak 10 with you this morning.
11 I'd like to personally support the Office of 12 Personnel in their efforts to establish a cooperative program f-s 13 for secretarial and clerical students at area high schools in 14 an effort to expand the secretarial pool.
15 Twenty-five years ago, nine students from three local 16 high schools participated in such a program with the Atomic 17 Energy Commission.
Over 25 years later, four of us are still 18 here.
I talked with the others last week and all think that it 19 would be an excellent idea to re-establish the cooperativa 20 program.
21 I'd like to offer my help to personnel in this 22 project.
I felt real good after the EEO briefing in November.
23 I thought that it went quite well.
I thought that we had 24 brought up a lot of impcrtant issues -- that we had done our 25 homework and that we had thoroughly prepared and presented our
p a
l' 29 f.-
1 case.
2 I thought we had built up some momentum and 3
envisioned CWS for nonbargaining unit employees, a formal 4
rotational policy and an employee opinion survey.
When I read 5
the January SRM, I admit to being a little disappointed.
There 6
was no CWS, no rotational policy and no survey but I'm a very 7
patient person and a month later, in February, we got our CWS 8
commitment for the agency's 1,200 nonbergaining unit employees.
"9 I want to thank the Commission and Mr. Stello for extending e
10 this option to the managers, supervisors, secretaries and other 11 nonbargaining unit employees.
It is definitely a morale 12 booster to these people and helps the disparity cause by 4.
13 different treatment of bargaining and nonbargaining unit 14 employees.
15 In the next couple of days I understand we will get 16 our formal rotational policy so two out of three is not bad, 17 but I'm hoping that the employee opinion survey will become a 18 reality also, I'd like to take a minute to talk about the 19 survey and staff morale.
In informal discussiono with the EEO 20 counselors, they state that employee moral.e is a problem.
As 21 stated in the January SRM response, we have no hard data on 22 employee morale but we can get that hard data with the employee 23 opinion survey that has ' con an open item for several years.
24 On pages 5"
>f thy SRM responso, we list a 25 number of efforts L 4th he.;pa.ag naintain and
a 30 1
improve employee morale.
All of these efforts seem very good,
(
2 very positive and steps in the right direction.
3 We don't know if they have succeeded in improving 4
morale.
What we have been doing for the most part is deciding 5
for employees the things that we think should improve their 6
morale.
Now that the major reorganization and consolidation 7
are behind us, it is time to go to the employees and get the 8
hard data that we are lacking.
There are many people at the 9
NRC who have worked here and at the Atomic Energy Commission 10 for a long time -- ten, 15, 25 and more years.
Many leave and 11 come back.
More than 90 percent of the people who have left the 12 13 agency in the last five years and remained in the work force 14 indicated that they would consider returning to the NRC.
So it 15 really is a pretty good place to work and home for many of us.
16 Getting employee input, participation and involvement 17 through the survey will only help to make it better.
We hope 18 the Commission will want to go forward with the survey with a 19 commitment that management will take appropriate action if the 20 questionnaire results identify areas of major concern to the 21 staff.
l l
22 Mr. Stello said something the other day that really l
l 23 made me feel kind of bad.
I thought about it a lot over the 24 long weekend.
We were all talking about the briefing this 25 morning, going over the data and the committee representatives
31 1
were talking about their concerns and I guess most of what we 2
were saying sounded rather negative.
We were telling him what 3
was wrong, what needed to be fixed.
There was nothing very 4
positive because unfortunately, the way we have been able to j
5 make progress in the EEO area in the past -- to advance, to j
6 improve and to move forward -- has been by accentuating the 7
negative and not the positive.
8 Mr. Stello, I'd like to say that your hard work, 9
personal involvement and commitment to EEO really is worth it.
10 We have needed your support and that of your staff and we have 11 gotten it.
We have needed the Commission's support and we have 12 gotten that too.
Let's not get discouraged.
Let's persevere, g-13 Let's keep the lines of communication open and continue to work 14 together to move forward and make progress at every 15 opportunity.
Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
May I just say 17 again, I appreciate the constructive and positive comments.
I 18 think that's exactly what we need and thank you very much.
19 MS. SAKENAS:
Mr. Chairman,. commissioners, I'm Cheryl 20 Sakenas and I'm the Chairperson for the Federal Women's Program 21 Advisory Committee.
I handed you a written report which I'm 22 going to deviate from a little because after our briefing last 23 week I decided to reorder my prioritics.
I 24 First of all, I'd like to say that we really 25 appreciate this opportunity.
I want to agree with Joana, I
32 t..
I think that even though you're going to hear some negative 2
things from us today, in general, we're very pleased with the 3
programs that are in place here and I think the agency's doing 4
a lot to further the EEO efforts and I think the problem is we 5
have so little time so what you hear is what we really want to 6
get fixed, not a lot of praise, but in general, we're very 7
pleased with what the agency's been doing.
8 What I want today is to bring up a couple of issues 9
that the committee's been working on since the last briefing 10 that are of concern to us and areas where we think some 11 improvement could be made.
The first one that we've been 12 looking at is in the area of attrition and I think Mrs.
13 Tripathi brought that up also.
14 Right before the last briefing, we did request some 15 attrition data from the Office of Personnel and we have been 16 looking at it and trying to evaluate it and what we have seen -
in fact I attached a table to your report, that shows how 17 18 they broke it down by category -- that in general with the 19 exception of a few categories, the attrition rates for women 20 are higher than they are for men.
21 The question that we have though is whether it's 22 really statistically significant.
No one on our committee is 23 competent to deal with that but we think that there are
(
24 probably people in personnel who can look at it and what we'd 25 like to ask is for somebody to evaluate it and if this is a
o 33 1
statistii:
..i
-g>
c issue that we do some work to try and 2
resolve wLe ' E.: problem is.
3 One of the areas that we thought we could have some 4
improvement in would be to have interviews through the 5
personnel office when women leave the agency.
Right nos as far 6
as I know, we're relying on an exit interview form.
That form 7
is very small.
It's primarily a checklist.
The area that 8
would primarily deal with if a woman thought she wasn't getting r~
9 promoted because she was a woman, is marked "EEO related."
I 10 feel that a lot of women, if they were going to leave because 11 they thought there wasn't significant promotion potential here, 12 wouldn't mark "EEO-related."
g; 13 They would probably say "for more. advancement" or 14 something.
So what we'd like to do is have some type of 15 interview go on with personnel and maybe they'll feel more 16 comfortable if they're not filling out some form but talking to
('
17 someone who's a specialist and if this is a problem, then we 18 can get it resolved.
19 The second concern that we've caen looking at is in 20 the area of training and primarily we looked at the programs 21 that exist where there's a great deal of women involved in 22 them.
The one that we came up with a problem in is in the SES 23 candidate development program.
The primary issue was that in i
24 the last class there were 16 candidates -- 13 men and three 25 women.
e ;. 7*
34 1
Out of the li men, ten were given positions in SES
'i 2
_and out of the three women, none have moved in to the SES.
3 What we're concerned about there is out of those three women, E4 two were GS-14s.
We're concerned that maybe it's not' 5
appropriate to put GS-14s in that program when it seems too 6
improbable that they'd be able to move into SES.
When we.have 7
so many viable GS-15 candidates, I can't imagine a manager 8
wanting to put a GS-14 individual in there.
9 So what that then does is narrow down the real 10 selectable field of women to one from that class so what we're 11 asking for is for that policy to be reevaluated.
Even though 12 we realize that the intentions were good when it was started --
g.- -
Sc 13 that it would open up. capabilities to more women in the agency, 14 we do have a larger pool of GS-15 women now and we think that 15 the next class should not include GS-14s if they're not going 16 to have an opportunity to move into SES.
17 The last point that I want to address is a more 18 general point but the example I want to use is the 19 implementation of the class action suit.
This was settled in 20 April of 1987.
The committee has been evaluating both the 21 commitments that the agency made and how they've been 22 implemented and in the last report we received in December, we 23 were discouraged over two points.
24 The first one had to do with the Upward Mobility 25 Program.
In the settlement of the class action suit, the
s 35 1
agency committed to filling ten Upward Mobility slots in 1987.
7 2
Five were filled within the regions and none were filled in 3
headquarters and the reason given was the reorganization.
4 We feel that more priority should have been put on 5
these slots because this was a commitment and it gives an 6
impression that that was not something that was very important 7
-- to fill those slots.
I mean, we're very happy that this 8
year, most of the slots that have been committed to have baen
'9 filled.
10 The second point was in the area of this rotational 11 policy.
We were very discouraged that it's taken 15 months *o 12 get this policy out on the street.
We are very happy that so 7
A.-
13 many women have been included in this rotational program but 14 one of the concerns that was brought up and one of the 15 highlights of the agreement was that this would be a policy 16 that would be available to employees, they would know about it, 17 they could apply for these positions.
It makes them feel like 18 we're seeking them out and we're trying to involve them.
19 Right now, a lot of the attitude of people in the 20 agency is that the people who have been put into the rotational 21 assignments were selected, hand-picked, somebody's favorites 22 which I thought we were trying to get away from.
We were 23 trying to make this open to everyone so that everyone would i
/
24 feel like they were participating.
25 What this points out and what I wanted to conclude 1
36 1
with was one of the problems that I continue to see and this is 2
the end of my three years on the committee is that women will 3
come to me -- in fact even men -- and bring up -- one of the 4
concerns is attitude.
There is a perception among the staff 5
that while EEO programs are in place and they're happy with the 4
6 programs and I personally feel we have a sufficient number of 7
programs, that maybe the senior staff does not take these very 8
seriously and that their priority is low.
e 9
7that may not be the case, but that tends to be the 10 perception among a lot of the staff and I think that's why they 11 become disheartened and that's why there doesn't seem to be an 12 attitude that people feel like EEO is moving ahead.
They feel t
13 like it's stagnant and I think part of that is it's perception.
14 What I think we need to do and what I said to Mr.
15 Bird about this rotational assignment is we need to do more t-16 salesmanship.
We need to get out there and let the agency 17 employees know that they are important and we do value them and 18 we ' don't want them to leave.
Again I want to thank you for 19 taking the time to hear our presentation and that concludes my 20 remarks.
21 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Thank you very much.
I appreciate 22 it.
23 MR. STELLO:
Mr. Chairman, just briefly, I'd like to 24 respond.
I recognize that comment that you referred to and 25 like I say, we get frustrated, because we're trying very hard
~
o 37 1
and I never get the sense that we're accomplishing anything.
I 2
appreciate the comment.
We are not going to back off one 3
click.
We're going to do the best that we can to advance the 4
program.
5 I do recognize that the progress will come slow.
6 It's a difficult area to deal with and I think we have made a 7
lot of progress.
Cheryl, I also want to say that I at 8
convinced the attitude of the senior managers has changed.
9 That was the thing that I started with and I am convinced with 10 continuing to disbuss this issue, continuing to raise its 11 sensitivity, we will make even more progress and I am convinced 12 that we will.
[
9-13 There is one issue that did seem to be a thread in 14 all of this.
Mr. Chairman, we are -- I've been working on a 15 survey and basically held back on it because of the 16 reorganization and the move into the new building and wanted to 17 wait until we were settled.
There have beun a number of 18 commente,that have come up as a common -- some common threads 19 in the briefing, I think today, and others.
20 Before we issne a piece of paper, we ought to step 21 back for a moment perhaps and maybe we can find a way te get 22 employees to offer some suggestions on how we can do things 23 better than just trying to go out with opinion surveys and 24 moral questions.
25 Maybe we can get some real good ideas.
I heard some
30 a
1 today and maybe people have a lot more ideas.
So, with the 2
Commission's permission, I'd like to work some more with the 3
committees.
Perhaps there's a way to do that.
4 If the Commission will agree, we'll slow up and go 5
back and look at what we can do in this area.
That finishes 6
our presentation, Mr. Chairman.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
All right, thank you very much.
8 Questions or comments from my fellow commissioners?
e 9
Commissioner Roberts.
10 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I have no questions.
I thank 11 all of you for your thoughtful presentations.
12 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Mr. Rogers?
[~
13 COMMISSIONER ROGEPS:
Yes, I have a couple of 14 comments.
Just Mr. Bird's presentation on the professional 15 recruiting efforts for women and minorities -- if-I'm reading 16 numbers correctly, they don't really look very good to me in l
17 terms of women hires.
At the entry level,
'. tat was the last 18 page I think, of your presentation Paul, the very last page, 19 the table.
20 If I just look at the women, it looks like 3 out 9 at 21 the entry level of hires were women; 10 out of 55 at the full l
22 performance level and 13 out 64 at the total professional hires 23 level; is that correct?
l
/
24 MR. BIRD:
Tnat's correct, yes.
25 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
It seems to me that those i
{
39 j
1 numbers aren't awfully comforting.
I'm not acquainted with 5
2 what the problems are in finding the right kinds of people and 3
so on and so forth, but they don't seem to me to be offhand, 4
necessarily representative of what the potential pool of 5
. qualified people might be, say, at the full performance level.
6 Now, I don't know exactly what that means and so I 7
may be misreading something here.
8 MR. BIRD:
My personal view is that, given that we 9
have been able to hire 10 out 55 full performance level women, 10 is significant progress over what we've been able to do in the 11 past.
Now, these people largely are trained individuals that 12 are in the work force.
A lot of our hiring is focused on the
,e -
k 13 technical jobs.
Personally, I'm pleased with that.
14 Maybe it's not as good as we might do.
We'll 15 certainly continue to work harder at it, but given that we hire 16 a lot of people from nuclear navy backgrounds in the technical 17 areas, I think, in the time frame given, this reflects some 18 progress in that particular area.
19 With entry levels, I would rather see about a 50/50 20 split on that and we are working very hard again to try to get 21 a much better number.
I think we can do better in the entry 22 level area.
Minorities --
23 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Of the total professional i
24 hires, as was pointed out with the earlier data, that, 25 comparing different agencies, that in the legal and
I-o 40 1
administrative level, we are falling short of what other 2
agencies can do and have done.
This number, total professional 3
hires, presumably includes those kinds of individuals as well 4
as equal with scientific backgrounds?
5 MR. 'TRD:
It would, except that we really haven't 6
done a lot of professional hiring in those areas in the time 7
frame.
Again, given that we're in a reducing mode, that our 8
staff is diminishing, our focus has been on the technical jobs 9
and in fact, has been on the elimination of administrative and 10 legal jobs.
Given those circumstances, I think that this data 11 reflects pretty well.
12 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
I think it would be well to try
['
(1 13 to explain those to us that wa3, though, and not just present 14 us with the data, because the data by themselves, do not look 15 very good, just on a percentage basis.
l l
16 MR. BIRD:
Fine.
17 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
It's helpful to understand the 18 reasons why and exactly what the breakdowns are as you put 19 these data into the general picture of interagency comparisons 20 and so on an so forth.
I think it would be helpful to have a r
21 little note on that to make sure that we all understand exactly 22 how to read these numbers, because they are just numbers.
23 Every number really should have an explanation with it to put 24 it into some kind of a context.
25 The other area that seems to me to be very glaring in
41 d,
1 terms of our shortfall is in the number of Hispanics that are 2
represented within the agency anyplace, either in headquarters 3
and even out in the regions.
I see, you know, zero, zero, zero 4
running down these columns as I look at them.
I think that's 5
something that really ought to be looked at.
6 There are certain regions of the country where there 7
are a number of qualified Hiupanics.
They may not ratch where 8
our needs are, however.
So, I'm just looking at the work force 9
profile of Mr. Kerr's presentation.
I guess these numbers 10 weren't really discussed at all explicitly in your 11 presentation.
They were just at the end.
12 I'd like to hear a little bit about those, because p
13 those things hop out at me when I look at the numbers.
- Again, 14 they're just numbers.
We have to know what the background is 15 and what's happening, but I would say that there's certainly 16 room for improvement in that area, f
17 I'd like to hear a little bit about that because it 18 seems to me that when I just look down at the columns and I see 19 zero, zero, all the way down, more or less page after page, I 20 have a question.
21 MR. KERR:
One of the things to be cognizant of 22 though, is that in our SRM response on page 39, we sent a list 23 of availability of various ethnic groups and the population.
24 You will see there a significant shortfall within certain 25 areas, including Hispanics in general engineers, nuclear
42 1
engineers, health physics, physical science fami"/.
(
2 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
These are all sart of
]
3 professional level groups.
Presumably, this work force profile 4
includes everybody.
I think that that's not a total answer to 5
that problem, I would think.
Now, of course, where the people 6
are and where the jobs are, may not match each other, of 7
course, and that may be partly an explanation for this.
I 8
would say that's something I'd really like to see us work on.
9 I think that -- I happen to come from an area of the 10 country with a high Hispanic population and I know that in that 11 area, there are a lot of qualified people -- techniccl and non-12 technical.
There are other parts of the country as well and it p-N.
13 seems to me that it's really an area for us to pay more 14 attention to.
15 MR. BIRD:
I'd like to point out that two of the 16 minority hires at the entry level were Hispanics.
17 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
I did see that.
18 MR. BIRD:
We're focused.
19 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
Right, but that's just two.
20 MR. STELLO:
Commissioner Rogers, that's frustration.
21 Progress comes in little bites, because we're really.
We're 22 declining -- we're actually declining; we're coming down.
For 23 example, in OGC where you do have a lot of opportunity to do --
I' 24 because there's a bigger population there, they have been 25 overstaffed and have been quite some time coming down.
43 1
It's very difficult to do much as our ceilings are 2
coming down.
You need this kind of a program, when you are in 3
an expanding mode.
4 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
I do understand that.
I do 5
think though, that just as someone, I think, pointed out that 6
we have to flag the problems and get them to the surface and 7
keep them in front of us, even though we may not be able to 8
solve them immediately.
9 MR. BIRD:
That's correct.
10 COMMISSIONER ROGERS:
I didn't hear anything on that 11 issue.
That is a problem that I think we ought to add to the 12 list, I guess.
13 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Let me just review some of the 14 comments that I heard very briefly.
I wo.i't go over all of 15 them but I really thought that this was one of the most 16 productive EEO meetings that we've had.
17 I would like to emphasize the positive and I think 18 many of you have done that too.
I think that's extremely 19 important.
We know there is room for. improvement.
We want to 20 improve.
We're committed to improve and we have to look for 21 results and where we don't see results we want to work on those 22 areas.
23 I appreciated very much Mr. Pettijohn'a constructive f
24 and positive thrusts and his suggestion, Mr. Kerr, to put 25 somebody specifically in your organization should be taken very vs m-
=m s
- v=
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- T*tv y
e
"+ rip 5m4 e--w----
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i 44 1
carefully and looked at.
I know you are doing that already
~
2 perhaps, but he's making a specific suggestion.
I suggest you 3
take that under very careful review.
4 If it would help us, I think it looks like it has the 5
potential for being an excellent suggestion.
6 Mr. Pettijohn also mentioned the prejudices and 7
perhaps a study would help us and others mentioned that the 8
study and the survey -- and I'll come back to that in a ninute e
9 but I thought that was a good suggestion too.
Then also Mr.
10 Pettijohn mentioned something that others mentioned later about 11 senior managers and their commitment to the EEO program.
A 12 number of others of you made that too, and I think that is an
(
13 excellent and positive, constructive suggestion.
14 Ms. Tripathi mentioned women leaving the agency 15 sooner than men.
Statistics show that's real.
I think it does 16 merit our looking at that.
I think in some cases some of the 17 women, at least of the few that I'm personally familiar with, 18 have left for job opportunities that were quite good and that 19 is good as far as they are concerned and our country is 20 concerned perhaps.
We hate to have them leave our agency but 21 if there are other reasons that these fine women left our 22 agency in any case I think we should know about it.
It merits 23 our looking at that one very carefully.
24 She also mentioned non-technical professionals and an g
25 emphasis being placed on growth for the existing staff.
I
45 1
thought that was something of course that was important.
We 2
often focus on improving recruiting and so forth but retention 3
o four own people and growth of our own people, also something 4
we should give perhaps more attention too, and I thought that l
l 5
was a good suggestion.
6 She mentioned that the Black secretaries received 7
fewer outstanding ratings than other secretaries and if that's 8
the case, and it looks like it is, I think.that also merits 9
attention.
She talked about the survey too, but jn a positive 10 way -- how we can improve.
I think, Mr. Stello, is perhaps 11 what you were Luggesting too and perhaps the survey and the 12 advisory committee might be able to assist in making the survey
/
s, 13 a constructive, positive one.
How can we improve?
That is the 14 thrust of what a survey should be and I think that's a very 15 good suggestion too.
Ms. Tripathi mentioned several other things I thought 16 l
17 were also important to think about -- vacancies cancelled and 18 review process in that regard, but I thought those were very 19 useful suggestions too, and I appreciate it very much.
20 Ms. Cobb mentioned the Bumping and hJtreat Study and 21 the RIF procedures.
I thought her reference to the number of 22 age complaints in NRR's particularly important.
It certainly 23 jumps out in the statistics and maybe there's a good reason for 24 that but we should know what that reason is.
In any case, I 25 thought that was an important suggestion for us to look at.
46 1
She mentioned that fewer outstandings to those over 2
50.
That also is something that I think merits looking at.
3 One would wonder about that one.
Do you think that people 4
experienced, over 50, would receive higher marks -- at least 5
their share of high marks and I think that's a good suggestion 6
too.
7 Her suggestion about the task force review age 8
discrimination would seem to me to be reasonable and it might 9
be helpful to have several people look at that and to see what 10 they might recommend.
11 Ms. Souder also mentioned her interest in the 12 cooperative program and as she pointed out, she is a living A-13 example of that program and then her offer to help -- Mr. Bird, 14 I think I'd take her up on that.
15 MR. BIRD:
Absolutely.
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Follow through because certainly 17 that's an excellent way to show the commitment of this agency 18 to young people and to offer them a potential career in the 19 service of their country and I think that is an excellent 20 suggestion.
I am glad she is patient with the recommendations 21 she has made because it does take a while sometimes for us to 22 move, but also I am glad that she had 2 out of 3 and I think 23 that's pretty good.
Perhaps you'll get the third one too, 24 sounds like.
The survey is important.
She also mentioned 25 that, and I also appreciated the comment she made on
47
{ '-
accentuating the positive and to not get discourages and to 1
2 work together.
Those are exactly my views.
I think working 3
together is the only way we are ever going to make real 4
progress and not to get discouraged, because it is discouraging 5
occasionally and I appreciate very much all of you who are 6
working in these programs because you do hear the complaints, 7
you do hear the negative parts from those who come to seek you 8
out.
r' 9
I want you to know how much I appreciate, and I know 10 my colleagues agree with me, your willingness to take on this 11 role that you've taking on and to hear the complaints, but also 12 I have great respect for you who can take these complaints and 13 try to make them positive and actually get some results, so 14 that's why I appreciate very much your willingness to work 15 together constructively so that we really will achieve what we 16 all want to achieve and that's more results in this area and I 17 really appreciate those positive comments.
18 Ms. Sakenas talked about attrition and pointed out 19 that it's harcer for women than men and again it's the same 20 perhaps suggestion that Ms. Tripathi had, so that women leaving 21 the agency for one reason or another -- and I think it again is 22 something we should look at.
She mentioned training and also 23 she talked about interviews for those who were leaving the f
24 agency rather than the form that perhaps may not be as useful 25 as it could be and I think that is certainly something, Mr.
48 1
Bird, that --
2 MR. BIRD:
We do offer interviews to people and 3
generally if they are willing to do so, we do sit down and talk 4
to them, our staffing specialists and our regional personnel 5
officers don't just hand them the form.
Some people don't 6
allow a lot of comments on the way out.
7 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Well, I know but I think it depends 8
on how it's presented.
You know -- most people if you just ask 9
them if they want an interview will probably say no, but if you 10 present it in a positive way and say we would appreciate very 11 much your spending a few moments with us to discuss privately 12 why you are leaving -- maybe a little effort in that regard I
- ~
13 might produce results.
It is certainly worth it in my 14 judgment..
15 MR. BIRD:
We'll certainly do that.
16 CHAIRMAN ZECH:
Class action suits -- Ms. Sakenas r
17 mentioned again upward mobility positions, rotational programs 18 are also are important things to look at I think, but then her 19 suggest'on also about the attitude of our senior staff and the 20 salesmanship type of approach.
I think that's a very good 21 comment.
Senior staff are very busy.
We all recognize that.
22 They are taking on very serious responsibilities in the 23 technical world and public health and safety is involved on a 24 daily basis.
On the other hand, people are our greatest 25 strength and somewhere or another, Mr. Stello, we've got to
l 49 1
figure out how to perhaps help our senior staff to spend maybe k
2 a little more time focusing on them.
All those that I know are 3
extremely outstanding individuals and their intentions are 4
right.
They want to do the right thing, but perhaps maybe we 5
can help them to evolve themselves more in this program because 6
again, no matter what we say here today at this table, all of 7
us, it is important that our views get understood and get 8
implemented down the line.
9 Again I don't criticize so much our senior and middle 10 level staff for leadership because I think they are very 11 outstanding individuals. That is pretty much across the board 12 but people are our greatest strength.
If we believe that, we
(.
13 simply have got to figure out a better way to focus on those 14 kind of issues and results.
15 Let me just conclude by saying that clearly there is 16 room for improvement and I think this agency has a very 17 constructive, positive outlook on F10 programs and people 18 programs across the board.
We want.to follow through on those 19 programs, so again I would say I thank all of you today for 20 your constructive, positive suggestions.
This is the way to 21 make progress, in my judgment.
I would think that if we have a 22 survey form, which it seems like the appropriate thing to do, 23 that it be designed, and perhaps you can contribute in a 24 positive way to make che constructive value from the form, not 25 just a lot of negative complaints.
If people want to say
o 50 1
negative things, certainly that's their option, but we should 2
really seek positive suggestions.
How can we improve?
That is 3
.the important thing, I think, if we can design the survey with 4
your help in that regard I think it would perhaps be a very 5
useful contribution to our efforts to improve in this area.
6 This was as far as I am concerned the most productive 7
EEO meeting we've had and it is due to your constructive, 8
positive attitude and your willingness to improve and I can't 9
help but think that with that kind of an approach that we will 10 indeed improve.
11 Are there any other suggestions?
Comments?
12 Thank you very much for an excellent presentation.
f' 13 We stand adjourned.
14 (Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m.,
the hearing was 15 adjourned.)
16
/~
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
'q '
CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER This is to certify that the attached events of a meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
TITLE OF MEETING:
BRIEFING ON EEO PROGRAM PLACE OF MEETING:
Washington, D.C.
DATE OF MEETING:
WEDNESDAY, JULY 6, 1988 i
i were transcribed by me.
I further certify that said transcription is accurate and complete, to the best of my ability, and that the transcript is a true and I
accurate record of the foregoing events.
sw 4 ) /v/US -
- f-.
1a i
I-l Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
O
?
o Revised 07/05/88 l
EE0 BRIEFING AGENDA Opening Remarks V. Stello EE0 Update...........................
W. Kerr Percent of Minorities and Women Number of Minorities and Women at GG-11 and Above (PFT)
Distribution Males / Females GG-13 Through GG-18 Minorities at GG-13 and Above SES by Gender and Minority Status Current Discrimination Complaints Responses to January 5,1988 Staff Requirements Memorandum Other Agency EE0 Programs /SES................
W. Kerr Imbalance in Hiring Performance...............
W. Kerr Training Programs In Support of Women and Minorities P. Bird Recruitment of Women and Minorities.............
P. Bird
- Other EE0 Efforts...................... Bird /Kcrr EE0 Advisory Committees Affirmative Action Advisory Comittee............
R. Tri;:athi Blacks In Government, NRC Chapter of S. Pettijohn Comittee on Age Discrimina tion...............
L. Cobb Federal Women's Program Advisory Committee C. Sakenas EE0-tabor / Management Advisory Committee...........
J. Souder
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2 TOTAL 1
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1 42
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JtJLY 1987 MAY 1988
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NRC ROTATIONAL ASSIGNMENTS INTERAGENCY TRAINING BY GENDER AND RACE BY GENDER AND RACE FOR FY 88 TO-DATE FOR FY 88 TO-DATE NON-SES NON-SES MINOl<!IY FEMALE 7%
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m (.: .. e. ' q " uj 5g PROFESSIONAL RECRUITMENT EFFORTS - WOMEN AND MINORITIES 1 4 HIRES AND ACCEPTED OFFERS - FY 1988 TO DATE ENTRY LEVEL 9 WOMEN 3 MINORITIES 2 FULL PERFORMANCE LEVEL 55 WOMEN 10 MINORITIES 9 TOTAL PROFESSIONAL HIRES /PENDING OFFERS 64 WOMEN 13 MINORITIES 11 -m
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