ML20136G986
| ML20136G986 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 12/11/1984 |
| From: | Herbein J GENERAL PUBLIC UTILITIES CORP. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| SP-I-TMIA-026, SP-I-TMIA-26, NUDOCS 8508200117 | |
| Download: ML20136G986 (8) | |
Text
. _. _
k:.
wp
/
A O
4_) e -
3g 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION (
TVg 4
IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO. 50-28 5
_ METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY (RESTRAINT-MANAGEMENT PHASE)
(THREE MILE ISLAND NUCLEAR 6
STATION, UNIT I) l 7
8 9
DEPOSITION OF:
JOHN G. HERBEIN 10 TAKEN BY TMIA 11 BEFORE DONNA M. DOLINSKY, RPR NOTARY PUBLIC 12 L
j DATE SEPTEMBER 28, 1984 13 PLACE FRIENDS MEETING HOUSP 14 6TH AND HERR STREETS HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA 15 16 y
b 17 APPEARANCES:
i 18 GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY PROJECT BY:
LYNNE BERNABEI, ESQUIRE A
N 19 FOR - S IA g
N 20 0FFICE OF' EXECUTIVE LEGAL DIRECTOR, Il BY:
MARY E. WAGNER, ESQUIRE 21 FOR - NRC STAFF mg
)
u 22 SHAW, PITTMAN, POTTS & TROWBRIDGE k
m BY:
ERNEST L. BLAKE, JR., ESQUIRE j
23 FOR - LICENSEE GPU NUCLEAR 7
w g,g 24 ISHAM, LINCOLN & BEALE I
BY:
JAMES B. BURNS, ESQUIRE M
MR - MMER j3 g g,
'O
- GEIGER & LORIA REP 0ftflNG SERVICL INC 1000 MARKET ST HSG. PA 17101 HSG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLR 5 -
8508200117 e41211 PDR ADOCK 05000289 y
G PDR 0
29 1
A I don't think I did.
2 Q
I'd like to refer you to page 16 of your testimony 3
before the Presidential Commission, Kemeny Commission, 4
specifically beginning on line 13.
5 A
Can you help me with the context?
6 It appears that I was looking at something.
It 7
says in the sense that we've used the thermocouples and 8
temperatures to determine some idea of what the temperatures 9
might be.
And it looks as though they're inaccurate, 10 question marks, and some reading zero, some reading as high 11 as 2,100 degrees.
4 12 Q
Okay.
My understanding is that there were not any 13 documents being used.
14 What I could represent to you, -- and Mr. Blake 15 could correct me if I'm wrong -- there were three sets of 16 in core readings taken that day, one off the computer, which 17 I believe you're familiar with and have testified to, two 18 taken with the digital volt meter.
One was taken with what 19 I understand is called a fluke thermoceter which automatically 20 converts to temperatures, the second taken by a digital v<,lt 21 meter which does not so convert.
But I do not believe that 22 there's any in the document being spoken about.
23 But let me go back to my question.
This indicates, 21 does it not, that you appeared to be answering in this 25 testimony that you had some knowledge on March 28th of D
- GEIGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC.,1000 MARKET ST HBG. PA 17101 HBG,234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS -
- b 4
29 o
1 temperatures reading as high as 2, LOO degrees?
2 A
Well, if you can let me look at the context of this 3
whole thing.
I see the number 2,400 degrees.
4 Q
Sure.
5 A
And this is before the Presidential Commission?
6 Q
Yes, it is.
7 A
It says 2,400 degrees.
And it says temperature 8
readings were relayed to me, but in the sense that we've used 9
the in core thermocouples and the temperature to determine 10 some idea of what the core temperatures might be.
And it 11 looks as though they're woefully inaccurate, questica marks, E
and.some reading zero.
And it does say, some reading as 13 high as 2,400 degrees.
14 So we, meaning the plant staff, didn't really feel 15 that they had an accurate temperature measurement on the 16 fuel assemblies.
17 Q
Let me ask you this.
B A
I don't remember if I was looking at something when B
that testimony was taken or not.
30 Q
Let me ask you, assuming for the moment that you 21 did not, it indicates you did know on March 28th of temperature 22 readings, whether or not they were reliable or accurate, in
%)
the area of 2,400 degrees?
24 A
I don't agree with that.
I 25 Q
You don't agree with that?
)
- GEIGER 4 LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC.,1000 MARKET ST HOG. PA 17101 HBG. 234 2109 PA 1000 222 GLRS -
l
30 1
A I think that's out of context.
2 You see the word 2,100 degrees printed on that 4
-3 page of that testimony that was taker before the Presidential 4
Commission.
But I don't think thatit's clear that that goes 5
back and says that I knew on March the 28th that we had 2,100 4
degrees.
Idisagreewiththat.
6 7
Q Let me read the question and answer.
And then 8
someone beyond us can make a decision.
9 MR. BLAKE:
Ms. Bernabei, do you have a copy of the 10 entire testimony?
11 MS. BERNABEI:
I don't here, but we do at our 12 office.
13 MR. BLAKE:
What you're showing him is just an 14 excerpt from it and that's what he's trying to refute.
15 MS. BERNABEI:
Well, I gave him the page before in 16 which there's a number of answers, none of which, by the way, 17 htve anything to do with the temperature readings.
And I 18 could read the whole page into the record or we could attach B
it to the transcript.
20 Page 15, which he did read, talks about the site 21 emergency, and then continues to talk about the products in 22 the core and failed to fuel.
23 Mr. Sandman aske'd the question on page 16, line 21 13, did you know about the high temperature readings that 25 you were getting in the core then?
Apparently, referring to
'o
- GEIGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC 1000 MARKET ST H8G. PA 17101 HBG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLR 5 -
31 1
March 28.
The answer by Mr. Herbein on line 15:
they were 2
relayed to me, but in the sense that we've used.the in core 3
thermocouples and the temperature to determine some idea of 4
what core temperatures might be.
And it looks as though 5
they're woefully inaccurate, question marks, and some reading 6
zero, some reading as high as 2,400 degrees.
So we, meaning 7
the plant staff, didn't really feel that they had an accurate 8
temperature measurement on the fuel assemblies.
9 BY MS. BERNABEI:
10 Q
Now, I'm asking you, did you testify on March 16th 11 or at least'it appears from a portion of the transcript we 12 have that on March 28th you had indication of readings of D
13 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit?
c 14 A
That testimony says th'at we talked about the 15 disparity and the readings.
And it says what it says.
It 16 says 2,400 degrees.
But I'm not sure that I agree that that 17 conclusively indicates that I had knowledge on March the 28th 18 that the in core thermocouples were reading 2,400 degrees.
19 Q
That wasn't my question, Mr. Herbein.
20 My question was, your testimony would indicate 21 that you had knowledge of 2,400 degree readings, whether or 22 not they were believed, on March 28th?
Isn't that what a 23 fair reading of that would indicate?
24 A
I don't think --
25 MR. BURNS:
Excuse me just a minute.
I b
- GEIGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC 1000 MARKET ST-H8G. PA 17101 HSG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222GLRS -
32 1
I think one could argue either way based on 2
what Mr. Herbein said.
3 Counsel, the record says what it says.
You can 4
argue however you want to.
5 MS. BERNABEI:
I'm asking Mr. Herbein for his 6
answer.
7 BY MS. BERNABEI:
8 Q
You're saying that that is not a fair reading of 9
your testimony, is that correct?
I'm asking you for what you 10 think your testimony says?
11 A
Yes.
I don't think it says that I knew we had 2,400 12 degree temperature readings in the core on March the 28th that 13 we, in fact, believed or. recognized.
14 Q
That's not my question.
15 My question is not whether you believed or recognized 16 it, but whether you knew of readings of 2,400 degrees on 17 March 28th?
Regardless of whether you believed them or not, 18 did you know?
And what I'm asking you is, doesn't that 19 testimony indicate you testified that you knew of readings of 20 2,400 degrees?
21
_A It says March the 28th.
And it says 2,400 degrees.
22 But for me to say.that that's what that means, I'd just have 23 to look at that testimony and be able to put that in context.
24 Q
Let me ask you this:
did you, in fact, know of 25 any readings on March 28th of greater than 2,200 degrees T
- GEIGER 4 LORIA REPORTING SEIMCE. INC 1000 MARKET ST HSG. PA 17101 HOG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS
N.
.i.-
?
s y
\\
1 Fahrenheit?
I'm talking about in core thermocouple readings.
2 A
I don't believe'I did.
3 Q
Are you certain of that?
4 A
Yes.
5 9
Now, did you become aware at any time on March 28th 6
that the in core thermocouple readings were being taken with 7
digital volt meters prior to input into the computer?
Do you 8
understand my question?
9 A
You're asking if I was aware that readings were 10 taken with volt meters in the relay room?
II C
That's right.
U MR. BURNS:
On which date, the 2cth?
13 MS. BERNABEI:
March 28th.
,'(
14 A
I don't believe I was.
15 BY MS. BERNABEI:
16 Q
Are you certain?
17 A
Well, fairly certain.
I don't think that I knew 18 about that on March the 28th.
19 Q
When did you learn that readings of greater than 20 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit had been recorded?
21 A
I don't know exactly when.
Possibly on' Friday-when 22 Bill Lowe related the hydrogen burn and the pressure spike a
to members of GPU and Met Ed, possibly then.
21 Q
Did Mr. Lowe at that time relate in core thermo-25 couple readings to you?
I thought you --
w GEIGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC 1000 MARKET ST..HBG. PA 17101 HBG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS -
.J
i
.\\
, am 1. ->
y s
(
I A
I don't remember that he did.
You asked me when 2
did I become aware that it's 2,400 degrees.
And I gave you 3
the best recollection that I have.
4 0
No.
I'm talking about readings, readings of 2,200 5
degrees or Creater.
When did you first become aware of the 6
readings, not the fact that those temperatures had been I
experienced, but actual readings had been taken of those 8
temperatures?
9 A
I don't believe now that I knew about that on the 10 26th.
11 C
How about the 29th?
U A
No, I don't believe I knew about it on the 29th.
13 I C
How were you informed of it?
'(
11 A
You know, I honestly don't remember.
15 Q
On March 26th of 1979, did you consider information 16 about in core temperature readings valuable information in 17 terms of how to operate the reactor, how to take it out of 18 this transient?
Was that useful information to you?
19 A
No.
And I think it goes back to what I said 20 previcusly about the readings that were taken on the computer 21 and the question marks.
21 Q
I'm asking you a theoretical question, Mr. Herbein.
23 I'm saying, is that kind of information useful, 24 the in core temperature readings?
I'm not talking about 25 whether er not they're reliable.
I'm saying, that kind of sL
- TElGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC.. 1000 MARKET ST..HBG. PA 17101 HBG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS -
.