ML20136B544

Transcript of 790801 Meeting in Washington,Dc.Pp 1-50

ML20136B544
Person / Time
Site:	Crane
Issue date:	08/01/1979
From:	Gilinsky V, Hendrie J, Kennedy R NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
NUDOCS 7909060504
Download: ML20136B544 (50)

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l CISC.A MIR This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States

_in the Nuclear Regulatory Commission held en Wednesdav, I wms-1oo Commissions's offices at 1717 H Street, N.W.,

Washington, D. C.

The This transcrip; meeting was open to public attendance and cbservation.

has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may centsin f

inaccuracies.

(

The transcript is intended solely for geheral informational As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not pa.rt of the fe~a1 purposes.

or informal record of decision of the matters discussed.

Expressions of opinion in "'s transcript do not necessarily reflect final deter:sinations or beliefs.

No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Cr= mission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument centained herein, except as the

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Com=ission =ay an:horize.

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I UNITED STATES OF AMERICA l

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NUCI.IAR REGCI.ATORY COMMISSION t

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PUELIC MEITING 4

t 5l CCNTINUATION OF DISCUSSION C ISSCES IN RESTART OF TMd-l il 6 !!

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ocem 1130 1717 E Street, N. W.

I Washincton, D. C.

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Wednesday, 1 August 1979 11 The Commissien met, pursuant tc notice, at 3:25 p.m.

u.

J; SEFORE:

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13 ;

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,. l DR. JOSEPH M. HINDRII, Ch. airman 14 i i

V!CTOR GIDINSRY, Ccmmissioner i

15 i l

RICHARD T. KINNIDY, Ccmmissioner 16 l PETER A. 3RADFORD, Oc=missioner 17; JCEN ?. AEIARNI, Occmissioner i

la i i

?RESEN*:

19 '

L. Bickwit and S. Ostrach.

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PROCEEDINGS j

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2 CEAIRMAN HINDRII:

The TMI-l order -- I see that --

l i

3 ch de ar --

i A !

COMMISSICNER KENNEDY:

Where were we befere the me=c?

1 i

5i CEAIRMAN EENDRII:

We had --

I 1

l' 6

CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY :

I dcn't knew what we voted I

7 before.

l j, 1

6

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8 CHAIRMAN HINDRII:

Let's see, did we have a recast?

l

+

l 9

I don't reme=her the voting en that.

I i

i l

10 l Oction 2.45, Peter.

!.4 : me see.

i i

II Help me reme=ber.

i 12 !

CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY:

We only had two votes for i

i

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13 l th at.

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14 l CCMMISSIONER 3RADFCRD:

The vote was 2 for Option 1, I

l 15 l 1 for option 2, and 2 for Option 3.

i 16,

CEAIRMAN HINDRIZ:

Ch, geec, wait a minute -- steady l

I 17 new.

18 ;

"'his is the discove:/ issue.

Give me just a second i

19 while I cellect myself slightly.

i i

20 l All right.

This is new optien 2, wid a slightly 1

21 '

revised last sehtence, page 4 of de meme.

Have I located the i

1 22 '

right place?

23 '

Congratulations, Eendrie, yeu' ve done it again.

I

• 4, Now, I see da; you' re pceposed new last sentence

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D=3eDeral SeOINigrt, I,IC.

25 remcves the wcrd apprepriare," which p::bably then, as I dink i

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ji 2 ';

4 J

1 you are aware, makes it ineligible to be a Class A government

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r 2 'k document er something, but --

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3 hl CCMMISSICNIR BRADFCRD:

I'll settle for Class 3 if i

t 4i ^ we can get it into government documents.

t 1

l 5!

CHAIRMAN EINDRII:

New, let 's see -- the voting new i

l 6 A stands that you and Jchn want to do that.

l, l

7l COMMISSICNIR BRADFORD:

I had a meme frem Victor this ' l, l

si morning wid de word "okay" written en it, which I forget to l

i

)I bring in.

9 10 CHAIRLVT HINDRII:

After learning about all de i

11 ccmmitments, Victor has made the various cc=mittees dis mczn-I i

12,

ing.

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13 j I think we ought to see it in writing, Peter.

i 14 i COMMISSICNIR KINNIDY:

I did.

I 6

15 l Is that the memo?

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i e

i i

COMMISSICNIR GILINSKY:

No.

I.3' us t h and these dinc. s 16 I i

l 17i to my secretary.

1 18 CC.v5. SSICNIR.*CTNIOY :

Could v.cu '=* " a see your

[

19 initials befors you sent them to me?

i 1

20 'l CD_IRMAN EINORII:

Did you give him dat -- de 1

21 ccuns e l's July 3C d --

22 VOICI:

I think it has it all the::s.

1 23 {

( 2 aughter. )

'i 24.l CIr?.v.AN EINDRII:

Good, c.a.a o a.coewn. inc,4 25 I just don' t want him Oc be. defenseless here,

ot' cl i

5 jL 3 ;-

i i

f i

1 Ck ay.

You would join them en an amended Option 2 l

I 2l f or dis coverf.

I must not have been very cle ar -- ch, yeah, I !.

I 3l was, toe.

I hadn' t voted myself.

I 4l All right.

Maj ority accruing to Option 2, with the I

5' las t sentence as amended.

I t

i 6l Counsel, take note.

i i

t J

7j The other item, which Peter's note said he decided

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3, he wanted to slide dcwn from option 1 to option 3 on the f

9l i= mediate effectiveness issue,

t 10 l All right.

I1 j CCMM~SS:CNER KI!CFrOY:

I mus s ay I den ' t h ave any 8

12i, great difficulty with that option on the basic presumption, l,

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13 i which I assume goes with it, that in f act 'this being a liedns-1

-l 14 t ing agency, ou= basic presumptien is that, in fact, this plant i

i 15 I will be licensable, cur jeb being to find cut the cenditions I

16 f under which the license will be renewed er the plant allcwed i

i 17 i te start up.

i 18 With that assumptien, I den' have any trouble with 1

19 '

Cptien 3.

L l

20 1 CCMM*55:CNIR AIIARNE:

I'm not sure I would go along 1

1 with e at.

l 22 COMM 55:CNIR KINBrc.,0Y :

You don't start vi d that j

t i

assu=ptien; is dat what you' re saying?

d 24 a COMM*35:!NIR AIIARNE:

I dink you have embedded in c.wmi 9.comn. inc. ]

" ' - h e re a werking definiti:n of dis agency.

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6

$ 1 4

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i 1,

CCMMISSICNER KINNEDY:

All I know is what the Atomic 2 !

Energy Act says.

I 1

3l CCMMISSICIER GILINSKY :

What does the Act say?

i

.l CCMMISSICNIR KINNEDY:

It says that we should issue 5l licenses under certain conditions.

i i

6!

COMMISSICNIR GILINSKY:~ So you review applications l

I i,

7l to see whether they =eet the requirements?

l l, a

CCMMISSICNER KINNIDY:

Exactly.

9 The assumption is dat if they don ' t, they will.

IC CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY:

Where does that ccme from?

11 CC:GCSSICNIR KENNIDY :

Logic.

I 12l If a man spends a billien dellars to build scmething

(

13,

en the assumption that it will have to pay cut through opera-i f

11' tien, and a licensing agency ecmes along end says, "You're s

15,

going to h ave to p aint the dec rs gree n, ins te ad o f b lue. "

It a

16 is not to be presumed by a ressenable man, I think, that the 17 guy will say, "The he ll wi th y ou.

I'm not going to paint rm!

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18,

dccrs bl.e.

I'm gcing to leave them the way they are. "

19 COMMISSICNER EENDP!I:

At le as e he h as that optien, i

20 '

CCMMISSICIER KINNIOY :

Well, cf course he does.

1 21 lt CCMM*SSICNIR AEI A?!II :

"'he agedcy may s ay that you made a mis take.

Ycu shouldn ' t have spent the billien dellars.

l 23 CCIOCSSIONZR KINNI Y :

Nct :.f the man h as spent the

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N billion dellars in accordance with the age n cy ' s regulatiens een a.conm inc.

Of and -ules, as testified :: by its previous issuance of a l

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_ _ _. _ _... _.. _. _ _. _ _ ~ _

7 j i 15 I

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lice..se when that very question was litigated.

2, CCtCCSSIC!ER G :.INSKY:

You seem to be going beycnd l

i 3l you, earlie r remarks, but I don' t want to take that up new.

I

'CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY:

Ch, I don ' t think s o.

Let me 4i i

i 3 !

reiterate my earlier remarks.

My earlier remark is I have no I

I 6

objection to what happened or dif ficulty with option 3 if*,

as I,

7 it seems to, it rests upcn the assumption, long held by this

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g agency, that its jcb is to define any conditions for the 9

cperation of the plant, not whether there shall be one or i

10 i whether it shall operate, only the conditions under which it i

f 11 !

shall.

I i

12 l And if that is the presu=ption, then I don't have 13,

any : :cuble.

But if it is not, can we have a different kind i

of p;asu=ption here as to our function as a body in the licens i

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14 j i

13, ing process, which I think to be incensistent with that de fined i

16 '

by the Atemic Energy Act.

17.

CCMMISSICNEF GILINSKY:

Cur jcb isn't to issue la. Licenses.

It's to protect the public he alth and s afe ty.

The i

19 g peop *.e need certain health and safety standards being se:

out, 20 and

• hat they ought to be in place.

CCMM~SSICNIR KIN!EDY :

Your assumptien alwasy being

) ln

] that, in fact, they will.

It is for you to decide what they are and call upon them to do it.

Your assumptien is not whether 24 or nct they should Operate the plant, but cnly the conditi:ns

..swee a

.,.n. is.

23 under wh:.05 they should.

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1 CCMMISSIONER GII.INSKY:

I den ' t see - if I can i

m 2 'i separate them; if they meet the conditiens, they get Oc operate l

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i 3

the plant.

If the don ' t, they don' t get to cperate the plant.

i 4j COMMISSICNER KENNEOY:

That means that ycu start l

5 with the presumption that a plant will operate.

That's all I'm '

i 6,

saying.

7 CEAIRMAN ENDR I:

Cr can be made to be --

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8; CCMMISSICNER KINNTDY:

Cpe rable.

Th at 's righ t.

9l Cr can be put in a conditien for Operation; that's il 10 !

correct.

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11 !

CHAIRMAN ENDRII:

I think that unde rlies --

i 12 '

CCESSICMER KIMMIOY:

If that is the underlying i

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i 13il cresumptien of Opti.cn 3, then I would supper: it If.it is not, l

14 y I think it's important that we knew that so that we know the i

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15 l condi icns under which we ' re checsing our Optiens.

16 l l

CCESSICNER BRADFORD:

As a latecccer ec Option 3 --

17 j CCESSIONER KINNEOY:

It is for that reason that I 2

18 am seeking ycur guidance, hav ng been left ab andened.

I i

19 (I,aughte r. )

i 20 j CCMM*SSICNER SRACFORD:

I'm not feeling abandoned.

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i 21 'l1 CHAIRMAN ENOR~I:

I w as O. re ttv.

set, because I was 22 p'.anning to go all around ecwn saying that Kennedy and 3radford 23 h ad voted me dcwn again.

24 CCP_M'SSICNIR AEIARNZ:

?cu joined them, o.a.eer

a. con.n. inc.

25,

Cim RMAN ENOR;I:

New, Ohat was a miner dif ference.

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(Laughte r. )

I Il 2 j; COMMISSIONER AHEAME :

But one you could surmount.

4 a

3' CHAIRMAN HENDRII:

I was going to slide away from

ld something 'myse lf, so I wasn' t le ft in that pcsition anyway, 5 ',

Sor:7, Peter.

Go ahead.

d 6[

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

I got to Option 3 by a slight.

I l

I was -- as I think you were -- troubled j

,! y different route.

v 3

by the problem that we seemed to be telling the I.icenses they 1

,i had to undertake these acticns or else be in violati'en of the c

.i 10,"I law.

optien 3, it seems to me, doesn't do t. Sat.

Cption ~

• f, tells them they have to take these actions if they want ec d

/

'2 res. art the plant.

If the process, whatever 'it turns out to

!t a

n,,be, s ays the plant is restartable, they wen ' t be in violatien 1.t g

15 " o f any NRC order if they don ' t, but they also wen't be able to 16 j restart the plant.

'l 17 l I' m ecmf o rt ab le with d at, because it remcves the

!! q ccercive element that I saw in Optien 2.

And I den't dink One has to go the additional step of saying tha, you can only gc 2c into option 3 if you have in mind the ce.~, ainty of an eventual

1, re s t art.

I.'s the :.1:ensee 's chcice wheder or not to actually I

' undertake de mcdifications under Optien 3.

The incentive te do it is that he be permitted to start socner, but he isn'.

24 being c:=pelled by dis agency to make investments agains: his a _ w.. a c n. inc.

25 j ewn better j udgment, which might ene day turn out te be was ted, l,

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- -. -. ~ _.,..... _..

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I CHAIRMAN HENDRIE :

Could I ask about the third option I i

I l.

I i

2 lI language 7 3

I' ll ask the draf ters.

Ta'<e the firs t sentence.

This.

n It 4l! appears twice in here, but let me take the first sentence.

It a

f [, s ays, "These icng-term acticns,which the Cc=missicn has required I

l 6i in immediate ef fectiveness crders for other !.icensees, in this I

t, 7 N case are to be performed as.promptly as practicable."

l, it al And then you have it as a cordition to restart.

.i a,

9 New, does that =ean the icng-term actions had to be 3

1 n

'O ] ccmpleted be fore a new restart can be contemplated?

l MR. BICrd:T:

No, it does not me an that.

I,2 ll CHAIRMAN EINCRII; means that the :.icensee --

i r

12 ll CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY.

Excuse me.

It dcas not?

• I 9

Id !'

MR. BICKWIT:

It d:es not.

15 COMMISSIONER 3RACECRD:

Secause of the Board discre-i i

I 16 tien that's built in?

p MR. 3:CT4:T:

Yes.

The idea is tha: the licensing 18 must be proceeded as promptly as practicable.

CCMMISS!CNER KENNEDV -

7" de performed -- not N

i l

M

" proceeding," it says "perf:: ed" -

" performed" is a verb which Tj ; think implies that scmething has been dcne -- if you are l

.. J perfor=ing, it is ng:ing if ycu are :

perfcrm, ycu are to U

do it.

If ycu have perf:rred, ycu' ve done i: -- I think.

d.

MR. SICKWIT:

I thi-k i t ' s ar.bi gucus.

,3.a.w a.aa,,n. me. I i

.g CHAIRMAN HENCR*E:

"perf t;.ed as prem=tly as a

i 1

i

11 j l. 9 i

l I.

I practicable" is the action which is to have been demonstrated 2 'p by the Licensee for restart.

In fact, it's conceivable that

, "promptly as practicable" means that he won' t even have started t

d

.tj up scme icng-term action.

'l 51 CCMMISSICIER KENNEDY :

Then he wcn ' t have performed i

f i

6!.anything.

H 7 ll

( 3 : 40 p.m. ; CcW ssicner Bradford has left. )

9, aj CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I think my point gets made by the

.t 9

discussicn.

i 4

10 't CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY:

Counselor, vou can fi:( that I

' e asily.

'. 2 MR. BICKWIT:

I have ne prchlem with the proceeding, i

^i 13 h.

CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:

The faet that there 's s eme dif fi-i

- a o

1.t y culty understanding what it :ceans, on the one hand, and not 15 g another -- that pecple though its meaning was relieved by a

16 '

sentences further dcwn the line suggests that some kind of l

recasting wculd be helpful.

eight, nine lines la J It appears ence mere down ab out I

' an guage twice.

dcwn.

It's the same struct"~

~#

After I read it the third time, I thcugh I knew what

' y cu me ant, but it did seem te me :: be s ub j e ct a gecd deal

:l: cf -- well, =isinterpretati n -- several interp retaticns.

l And if we clearly understand that

( 3 : 41 p.m. ; Ccmmissien B radic d has re turned. )

s.e.,c a.cor.m ne. j 25 '

CIMM~5SIINIR KINNZIY:

It is important th at we clearly

's

12 ji 10

• i l

i 1.

I think it's clearly i=portant that all de re l understand it.

.I capients of the order understand it.

4:

I I

3 CEAIRMAN ENDRIE :

If it's written so that all of ii 4l us understand it --

i

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Then hope fully they would --

1

.g 6: righ t.

a 7]

CHAIRMAN ENDR.II:

There's at leas t a chance.

],

a t

3 Now, subjecu to a little redrafting there, to make i

de meaning clear, Peter avows that he finds this option to be 10 scmewhat superior.

I' I take it, therefore, Jchn --

1 E ;;

COMMISSICMER Ai:EARNE:

It's been voted en before.

i t

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U:

CEAIRMAN EENDRII:

You said it was okay,.and I didn' t n,

14 I knew -- quite knew how to count your vote between Options 2 and il 15 l 3.

l.

16 !l COMMISSICNER AEARNE :

If you recall, when it get a

R dcwn to the f act that it was then between 1 and 3, I voted for t

l a

.1..

a t

CEAIRMAN EENDR.7 :

Yes v.ou may have.

I dink I r

refused to count in order to avoid it.

II -

All right.

• will count *veu as de re.

And : 7:ess I

l 22 ' that wculd stand as the majority posi:icn.

~2 COMM SSICNEZ KENNEOY:

Cou: d I ende rstand then, from

• y the majerity, what it is dat the visual:.:e the Order to mean?

.,.s,c.,.. a.aar n. nne.1 25i CHA~RMAN EINOR~E :

In dis regard -- let's see if :

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l.

l 1

13

~ jil 11. ;

)

i I

i t

1l can say it --

2l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

As to our pcsture, vis.a-vis 2(, the Ticensee, and the proceeding, I j us t want to knew, so I 4

knew hew to cenduct myself appropriately.

I den' t want to foul 5 I up the hearings by asking the wrong questions, so I need to i.

d' know what it is we visualize cur posture to be, vis-a-vis, A, ll 7'i the hearing and, 3, the Licensee.

What does it mean?

i a

3j CHAIRMAN EINDRIE:

Ycu mean mcre than just the particular previsiens here in option 3?

~

o.

e 10 ti CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY :

What is the underlying pre-

~

su=ption here ?

It is new a settled issue.

I ' m j.:s: trying te 9

12, find cut what it is new I am to assume.

i i

13 n CCMMISSfCNER AEEARME :

Si'nce CGC drafted it an ll 14 (i explained i: de c her day, I'm sure they can do it agaic today.,

u.

13 ji CCMMISSICNER KENNE0Y:

You don't know, i

1 16 '

CCMMISSICNER AEIARTI:

I would prefer, since ycu made 7

the peint, Oick, that ycu want ec be very careful da: it is de-

B ',, co rre ct legal constructien; as regards to the hearing, le the n

record repeat itse lf.

They can de again :cday as they did 20 yes te rday.

l 2!

CIMM'SSICNER KENNEDY:

Ver/ good.

i 22 MR. BICKW T:

The understanding wculd be tha: the

• . cens ee wcu? d be to ld, e f fe ctive i. :me"

=-a 'y d at he mus:

3. perform _hese actions.

He mus: he prceseding as promp:17 as 4.cm. a.conm. me. i 25 practicable en these actions if he wants Oc restart his plan: :. f' i

i

t

14 f l,12 l

f i

1' at the time the plant is ready to go up, in the judgment of the i 2i Cc= mission, on the basis of short-term actions having been I

i c omp le t e d. --

1 l

4l COMMISSIONER KINNEDY:

Excuse me.

I want to be sure i

5,

-- does the Cc=issien have any presumption as to the pessibil- !

I t

i 6!

ity that the plant may er may not come up?

or is that a l

I, 7l fundamental issue before the Cc==ission -- that is, whether,

! j, S,

these issues not withstanding, the plant may not come up?

Is 9i that a fundamental question?

j 10 MR. SICKWIT:

It is an issue in the hearing:

Whether 11 the actions prescribed are necessary and suf ficient.

There is 12 '

a presu=ptien enly to the extent that the Cem=ission would be 13 'lindicating that these actions were its best guess as to wnat 1

14 -

was required to resume cperatien at this time.

15 COMMISSIONER KZNNIDY:

Whi ch, I guess, is the ncrmal 16 ;

course.

Th at 's about wh at it alwa.ys says, doesn't it?

Cr dees 17 l

. t?

la MR. 3:CKWIT:

Yes.

That is ncrmal.

I 19 COMM~SSIONIR KIN:TIOY :

It always reserves :: :. self f

20j the essential right Oc s ay th at, whereas yesterday all these i

21 "l

= cperate a p lant, today we find, for

] things were suf ficient l

] ;;cd and suf ficien: re as ons, that these two are needed.

We can l

22.; always de that.

.I 24 i So ycu're saying that in that centex: tha:.his is the-o.s.en n.oom. m i

• t* i view.

s.

I

7 15 1 T.3 I

l l

1 MR. BICDCT:

But this is the COM ssien's best guess i

2 i,l at this peint.' But it has asked the Board to consider, as an i

I, 3.l issue in de hearing, whether these acticns are necessary and

,)

A ;j s uf ficient.

5; CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY:

Let's see.

You' re talking

?

6!

now about the long-ter: activities, specifically these who are l

I 7

required of other 3&W Licensees to be -- in effect, a ec=mitment!

8: te these icng-term actions was required for centinued cperatien.

I e

4 9.

MR. S I C K*, C T :

I was about te get there.

That's with 4

1 respect to these icng-ter: actiens, dat thev must be perfermed 10 t 1

11 h as prc=ptly as practicable, they must be proceeding to be i

12 :

perfer=ed as prc=ptly as practicable as a ecnditien for restart.

I

/

- 43 i With respect to actions which have not new' been ordered,

-l 1

14 i effective i= mediately; with respect to the ether plants, the i

13 Cc==issien is saying that if these actions are ordered, then 16 the Cc==issien will proceed in the same way w ^ --spect-te d

i t

I7 h this plant, net by crdering that the acticns be dene ef fective il la '

i==ediately, but by specifying that de actions must be in 19 de ccurse cf being cerferred as crc==. tly as practicable as a

}

i 20 bl cen*

• d - cf restart, with the previse that the 3 card may change 21!,

these actions er the Cc==issic:

= a v. cha.c.e dese actiens before I

i v.

1 22., a final decision is reached.

1

• 1 i i

• w I

r l

i

')d I

P AscorO 4ecortert iric.

• t so II i

1

l CR 6256.

i l

H OEI"".AE i

16 t-2 =tel l

1 CCECSSIONER KENNIDY :

Therefore, you are saying --

i 2 ;)

what you have said so f ar seems to me to say more or less what 2

I said in the beginning, dat is, given a set of specific and t,

concrete steps agreeable to de Cec =ission and its board, a

5,',

exactiv. as in a licensine. creceedine., it is assumed and can i

a N

6 be assumed by a potential licensee, or in this case a licensee, I

r 7 '.! dat he will be authorized to Operate this plant.

[

g 61 MR. SICKWIT:

I wcu.l.dn' t go that far.

9' CCMCSSICNER GII.INSKY :

Y=u're talking abcut a J

in 10 l special class of requirements here.

I' CODCSSIONER KINNIOY:

There are a class of things.

f M; That's special insef ar as a.whcle class of plants are concerned, i

[ ~

13.. B &W plants.

t 14 a CC W.ISSIONER GII.INSKY:

Right.

J 15.;

CCECSSICNER KINNIDY:

Now, there are also some

.i 16 ] specific or.es that are site-specific, as there would be in most

'~

cases.

i

!S "

CCECSSICNER G::.INSKY :

But they're nc: the sdject

'S of what we're discussing, Option ene, two and three.

0 CCSCSSICNER KENNI Y :

I reali:e that.

~

's tha:

21 conglecerate of actions.

22 CCECSSICNER GI*. NSKY :

You're in a sense shifting

= the next item.

i l

!a MR. SICKWIT:

Yes.

l

.n.s, v., aecornn n

• 3 '

CCtOCSSICNIR KINNE Y :

That's the next item?

sto 2 l

17 i

l In COMMISSICtER GILINSKY:

Cr the one beyond that, il 4

i It seems to ms that very special circumstances apply 2 +I,.

to the actions that have been required of other plants.

i

(

.t j COMMISSIC!ER KIN 1EDY :

And would be, presumably,

'i 5 'l here.

1 6 'l.

COMMISSIONI5 GILINSKY:

In'effect, what we 're saying d

7 3 or would be saying in an order is that the board, in deciding j',

i

l al on operations, will also take into account the progress on these long-term items, given the amount of time that's

'O '

involved.

CC.ACCSSICNER KI!RCCY :

Right.

But underlying that

1 i 1:)b is the asst =ption that if all those things are satisf act:ry, the olant will operate.

That's what I'm saying.

There is not 133

- d a

14 q a presumption --

15 CCMMIS$!CtER GILINSKY :

All o der things being

,1 16 j equal.

J 17 :!

CCMMISSICIER KI RECY:

Tnere is no t a pres =ption tha t, all this notwiths tanding, the question of whether the

?C plant shall ever operate remains a question.

l3 CCMMISSIONIR GILINSKY:

All other things being s atis f artery.

CCtOCSSIONER KI!RECY:

All other what things ?

.1 CCMICSSICtER G 1.!NSKY :

New we ' re getting to the D

whole range of issues ina t apply espec ally to this plant.

e +.. a.w,.i mc.

Of CCKMISSIONIR KINNICY:

All right, then.

In tha t

18

}l l

=to 3 i

6 case, let =a point out dat I would have. to go back and say 1 j;I I

2-I do not wholly agree with Peter's view respecting it.

But i

Ih 2.

I think dat if cne t akes dat posture and he says, well, in o

fact you are back in a semewhat =odified, but not very much

,\\

modified, ccercive situation -- okay, I unders tand it.

I n

6(

just wanted to be sure I understood it.

I think I understand a

4

..t.

f;

.' I aj CCW.ISSIONIR GI!INSKY:

Well, what you're dcing is

s 2,

coupling the reopening of the plant wid several cf these ft long-term items.

In other werds, you den't have to de them,

'^ '

i' but it means that even if 0-her things are satisfied --

n 1

1: !;

C0!CCSS!CNIR kin ~IOY:

You dcn't have te dc them,

(.

13 : but even if you dc.it doesn't mean that you get"to operate r.

14 i the plant.

4 15.l CCWi"SSICNIR G !.INSKY :

Secause dis doesn't cover 16 all the issues, i

CHICPJG.N IINDR*I:

Ane der way te cene at it is te i

13 back off and be a little scre general.

I dink wha: CiOk is M

getting at is de fclieving.

There are a set of things :

be 22 done cf various kinds, sc=e precedural, some hardware, training, 2

what have you.

We have specified in this Order sc=e Of these i

I 22 things, sc=e shcr:-term and scme icng-term.

We prcpese to 22 have a beard hcid a hearing en the prepositien of hcw the 2a applicant prepcses deal with these dine.s, whether thev. are

-.. k n nece m.sne.

23 indeed a.necessarv and sufficient se: Of condi icns in ::

0.

1 t

s~e -

.n

[

s t b' 4

'i t

19 i

1; I think what Dick's saying is, considering that set n

sl.

of things in tote, once the beard has concluded that they're 2[J 2"

in satisfactory shape and has so said to the Co m.ission, and

(' -

n the Cc= mission says, yes, Ite= 1 is okay, Item 2 is okay, 4

4 5 4 et cetera, down through the list, then in fact the plant can

I 4

6i restart.

Beyond that, that there is not beyond that some d

7'j further underlying prcpesition that, well, it may be ekay, but p

.i a[i what the hell, should it operate.

And I think, indeed, the structure of the Atemic

.i 10 I Energy Act is -

CCMM SSICIER KINNZOY:

Very simply put, tha is ny

• e 1

~

1; d p Oposition.

/

13 ;

CEAIRMAN EENDRII:

That when the appropriate condi-

\\

14 q tions for operation are met, then the licenses shall issue il 15 ;;

or suspension --

4 f

16 :

CCtOCSSIONER AEIAICE:

There are two separata cases.

9. -' - There's one case that says we knew everything d at we're going 13 l to require, but we don' t want to put scme Of them down.

19 :

COMMISSICNER KENNE Y:

Ixcuse me.

I've go: to run.

a

-1

( At 3 : 50 p.m., Cec.issioner Kennedy lef: the rocm.)

t '

CO.vy.!SSICNER AHEARNI:

It s i = =. l v savs, here are the y

t things we're dcing right no w, we're not sure it's c =plete.

1 New, I'm not sure wheder you' re buying da: A =igh:

24 be the case instead cf 3.

I'd have t:Ouble vi d A.

3,

. ~ i~,, a.,me,., i.e.

-"'-k it's entirelv. = css

'-'a # ere may be eders.

But :

d r

sto a.

l 20 I

1.!

thought that was the standard in eeneral licensine hearings, i

.i 2[

thatnien you first go cut you say, as f ar as you know, here is '

.I 2

the lis cfrequire. gents.

There may be others, l.

t.

CEAIRMAN EINDRII:

My intentien is that if we can 1

5 :,

dink of anything dat we believe cught to be ccvored in the

'l 6I case cf TMI Unit 1 in this hearing, exam 4ned in the centext 1

a 7 j) of this hearing, we'll o.ut it down here.

,1 S :i CCMMISSICNIR AEIARNE:

Well, we haven' t even go tten

.\\

?.

vet to the deta.iled discussion.

We had a preliminary discus-I 0l l

4 10 l.,

sien on what these detailed things were.

Then we've spent davs in the precedures, i

,1 I; j-CHAIPS.AN EINDRII:

Yeah, I knew.

But to ge en and tl y

s 1

trv. to answer 'the Orcresition, I would hepe. hat we eut dcwn 13 !'

~

u.

14 "

everything that we think is appropriate to be considered in y

IS

.he hearing in the cr:8er.

-i 16.!

New, if we cocid manage it, it would be my view to 1

see if we couldn't.=ake that in fact an inclusive list, and

'~'

13 s av., these are the :.ssues te be considered.

If it's de

udgment that in fact the question of, are this se-a' - d gs q

~~

l

~

a sufficient set, is to be censidered, why, se be it.

That at least is the.hrust which de ocunsel's effice is.aking a:

I 2

.ha =crent.

The problem tha: Dick was raising was, ; quess, :=

22 be reassured that we agree tha: there is in principle some

.:.s. v,. = w.m. me.

..w- -.o.

. x. 4..

• 3 1

.e,;.,.e.s. 1 *.. J. s

.g.w. 4..w.,

.J.e

. g 1.,

3.'C m,

3.

J

. ;.a 7..y

3 i

i mto 6

1 i

1 l,

27 i

I 1!,

being equal, lead te a restcration of de license for the

}

Ih Con ='.issicn te ocerate.

And it seems te me that indeed is the

.I case.

It remains te be seen hcw some of the requirements work c,

.,d'.4.. deed,

_d _ 4 s

.c *. c t'.*.-

." _". e

'.'. e s ~. 4.'. * ". >. s c'. e

.1

!I 59,

.- a.3

_d em.e n.

d.

.*.*. '..e

.".= '..' / o n a..- e us a..d.

~ ".e

.1 4. =...s a. e w. u _' d 1

I 6

have te decide wheder he would want to de them.

i 7l COMCSSIONIR GI*INSKY:

Once you talk about specify-t 1

!]

ing the issues, that's one thing.

I have a feeling Cick is il

^,

talking about requirements.

I don't think we're in a positien -

.I M'

te de that.

Cu.

.w..a. xI u.

v. w.> -.

a_ _a a s...,,a a,.

.. a ;

.m.

rl d caly dose things mentioned in the crder were te be censidered 12 a

My in the hearing.

I don ' t knew that he '.s reached that point, Lt5 and I don't want te sav. anv. more en behalf cf him.

He can i

15 '.

s p eak

• ze..-v. w e.'..',. " c.

.5.3. s e s'.'.

.-d..'.d.'.

.'. e a.

c..

1 a

16 1

-c.1.

j 1

s i

And what I suc.c.es. we fo here fs 50 ask Oc selves, i

'. a s

=

".e.- a d.

3

.=..' c u.... -..

4...e a

.='...'.v,

"... w a. ~. a..-.#.- = c.d.' a,

5e

. ed_ia.a

a..# # a.

._' va.e s s,

d. wa ".d e. s. a..d 4

a

_w

.e 1

I dink we dc.

And

• en e.nd Steve will fix mv. little problem

.a. r......g..

2 ;...

.g.e w.g.J..

.a

.gg....

.w...

Aa

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1 cn?

l L9...:. C*s to..

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.v r w. 4....a r...,.'.

3.:a.

4

'* "' e '. a #.' "* _# * ** a.'.."*. '.# #.' _' ".'*/

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.=.#.='.*

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4 '* Pr ti 38007'1, MC.

t

. c9 aC

-._a.

1

st6 7

]

si.

22 1

I d' CLURMAN HENDRIE:

I'm sure glad of that, because s

a h

2d we were running dewn en dif ficulties.

I was wendering how I 9

was going to keep you all amused here.

(

4,.

MR. 3ICKWIT:

Previous discussions have indicated

~

a5j that you would like to see sher -ter = actions separated from u

6 the long-term actions at the hearing to the extent feasible, 1

7?

and a decision made on restart on the basis of whether the j

a 5!

short-term actions have been acccmplished.

In other words, that the beard would reach a partial initial decision en the M'

questien, and then the Com=ission wculd address the matter.

l If you' re =aking these actions a condition :c res tart --

.i COMMISSICIER AEEARIE :

It's not the actions; it's r

the preceedings on them.

s 13 '

MR. 3!CKWIT:

Yes.

If you're making 'proceedi.tg on I*'

these actions a condition to restart, and you want the board a

16 l to censider whether these actions are appropriate prior te i

your decision en restart, ib.en ycu're going to have c dispense i

13 ' with the netien of a partial initial decisien based only :n th e

\\

shcrt-term actions.

You can either abanden this option as a result of th at consideration er you can de One Of twc ether things: ycu can abanden the nction cf a par:;al initial decisien or you i

i 22 can say that, rather than a cenditien :: restart, the perfc -

mance cf nese actions shall be a condi icn :

continued

\\

. n.Lk e.. awann, e.

• e

• i ccerat;en.

s0 1

i l

1 1

mto 8 23 COMMISSIONER AEEARNE:

I think what you're stuck on, !

)

Len, is evaluation of the adequacy of actions, long-term actions, as opposed to at least what I was concerned with, che

(

.?

evaluation, had the licensee begun to take action.

And at il 5

least for myself, I would have no problem.

The questien de 9

board is addressing is whether the licensee had been addressing-6 I.

Il 7:

dose actions as rapidly as practicable, widcut addressing for :

t.

dat tnitial de cision whether all of those acticns were the ones they had to have taken.

m MR. OSTRACE:

In other words, you're suggesting, 1C ]

Cc=missioner, that at the time that it issues its partial i'

12 '

initial decision on the restart question, the beard decides i

i

'.whether the licensee is beginning to initiate che long-term actions the staf f had =rce. ased?

i 15 CCMBCSSICNER AEEARNE:

That's right.

i.

16.-l CEAI?J1AN EENDRII:

Dces that configuration have to 71 be phrased here in terms of a condition to restart?

Cculd in 1

simply be par of the crder that de long-term actions be perfer=ed as prc=p:1y as pessible?

c MR. SICKWIT

That's a provision of the crder. ~4e 're back in optica -- which one was it? -- two, which Ccemissioner 1

3radford found eb ectionable, because you were ordering, 3

s effec _ive i ediately, sc=ebcdy te de semething under the law.

24

~3UPJGN HENDRII:

Okay.

That would be equivalent in

.e..,

s.oo,,m. me.

25, vcur view, nen, tc

r. i:a.ediate ef f ectiveness cont nc.encv..

I

=

V sta 9 ll t

24 i

i 1li-see.

r, 2:

MR. BIC.%'T T :

I think your concept is a perfectly

!i 2~

viable ene and perhaps a concept the Cc==ission wants to vote i,

4.,

On.

a 5"

CEAI??AN EINDPlI:

must say, I wculd be very 1

64l unhacov to give um the partial decision, because it seems to 1

7']

=e worth searching for all reasonable ways to come to a

]

!I 81 decision.

~'

MR. 3:CDTIT:

Well, you would have, as your partial

't il 10 1 initial decisien, not only a decisien on the short-term actions, but also whether these actions were being performed

.I 12 :ll as prc=ptly as practical, withcut regard :: whether dese were

/.

(

13,i, the correct ac icns.

So.vou would still have a partial initial

~

n t

la 'it decision ecming up.

15 !i csA;py;ct HINTR;I:

gew would veu preve vcu'd done a 16,

thing as prc=ptly as practical?

i

\\

'7 MR. 3:Crd:T:

Ecw wculd vcu go abcut it?

seems ::

i l

la '

=e you would shew a werk schedule.

It wculd den be "udc.=ent a

)

..a as te whether--

i 20 CEA~??AN EI!CR*I:

Would it differ frem the work 21 schedule you wculd prepare if ycu were Ordered ec de the l

actions, :c take de actions immediately?

2" MR. 3*Crd:T:

Che werk schedule wculd be irrelevant i

e'a Ln :ha: case.

. a.I

=p.g, Sectpr'9't tnC.

f If C M!C55:C:iER AEIAENI:

And at scme stage dcn't we

m.pm.

yA J

,hp a

~ - -.. _ _.. -..

std 10

1 25 s

j l

1, begin making the applicant's case?

t.:[

MR. SICKWIT:

I'm not sure I understand that.

CEAIRMAN EINDRII:

If we describe in detail what i~

is necessary to do it as practicable and as rapidly as n

po ssible, aren't we actually given directions to the licensees 1

6.

and to the board:

Now, if the licensee does this, then that's 11 7j satisfied?

t 3q COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD:

Which is all right if we knew enough te do it.

10 '

CHAIRMAN HENDRII:

Y o mean, you wouldn't have dat discussion and vou'd sav, we..,' u s let pecple figure cut i

4 what that means?

What I'm sayi;.; ;s, de =cre I thin *< about 4

r-12 it, th.e less a distinction I can see between as prpmptly as 14 a practicable and i=mediatelv. effective.

!! 1 COf0C55:CNIR GII. NSKY :

Well, one difference is, at 16 9 least in oction two, it would be a violation of the Order.

f CHA~?.'iAN EINDRIZ:

What I's af: aid is, I've go: nc

• s chance of proving that : acted as prceptly as practicable unier.-

ti start working away the day the order is issued.

20 COMMISSICNER /dIIARNI:

2.e me give you the twc beendary cases.

Clearly, if it starts i =ediately, as seen as de erfer is issued, then dat is as prceptly -- that certainly meets the test.

21

dink clearly if he hasn't started

de a single r 5,<v =,oorm, +c.

l-25 item er even a first step cn any Of dose icng-term acticns

~

i

. d

.2.,

j 26 i

1P until the beard reaches its cenclusien --

I o

2 0 CHAI?.v.AN HENDRII:

Prelirtinary decisien.

COEv.ISSIONER AEIARNE:

Preliminary decision.

He i

4 says, that's when I'm first gcing to start thinking about it; a

.e

u...

, e 5,/,

"4.a.k

+..b.e.'.,c.=. d w o u ' ' '.e a...~ 4 _- * ' ". _- a_a s o.. = b _' a.

~. ~

n 18 61 say, that is not as promptly as practicable.

Those are the

l 7 't twc boundary conditions.

3:I CHAIS. MAN HENDRIE:

Gced.

And what I ask you is:

t, e1

.-:.,.- a..1

" '.., s.h. e.-* c.' a...d.. ed.d =

• e s

• a.-*. c.. _= ' ' " ".

".e 1

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1 l

.)

T a c ~_.d..s, a *..'. e aa- *. to

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s.u.,w...

vi. ve

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as prcmptiv. as practicable?

I hadn't started on the first dav, n

a 12 1 o k a v..

Ecw then dc I establish. crc =c.tness?

u1

• " a *,. 4 s,

.d.a. ' a c ~.,

.d.. c r *. 4 n

~_5.'.. e e, t..de- '] cur *b..i.d a

15, cetien, have v.eu achieved anything except a ec= plication cf d

16 1

.g

c. age, n

.g

.s..s.n e.a s.n.

. s. e

.4._..e>,.; a. e., y

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1

'3 we ' d be better to use the Op _io n cwo.

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_4.

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a e.

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, = E,.. m.,.r,.

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W e. e. m,oo,.,.,

25

=ake the case with the licensine. bear. that.veu ' ve acted as d

~

sta 12,

r 27 i

1 l; promptly as practicable. Since I suppose the licensee will I

want to restart the plant, he will feel he doesn't have much 2 i,

'l 2

eption but to do tha t.

(

A But in case he decided net ec de that, he would not

't 5,

be in violation.

(I 6 't COMMISSIONIR 3RADFORD:

That's right.

t II 7!,

COteCSSIONIR GILINSM:

Oder things or other 5,;

concerns having been satisfied.

9' CHAIRMAN EINDRII:

But it seer.s to me that wha 1

10 j you were icoking for was not enly that relief frem being in'

.,i violation of an order, but other pecple, it seemad to me, were II l also locking fer a little flexibility fer de licensee to y

12 h

• udge whether it's likelv to be so manv. months er so many s

i.

-d 14 !! mo nths, it's reasonable to wait two months and see hcw this d

15 ;

develops with other plants.

16 i CCMMISSIONIR GII.INSE :

Maybe the right.words are U )

" reasonable progress," in crder for de bear:i to be making its 9

12 decision, to take into account reascnable progress.

l*

MR. SIC *Gi T:

I thir.k that vculd be useful.

20 '

COMMISSIONIR GILINSE:

That has been required for i

f 21 the licensees.

1 22 GAIRMAM HINDRII:

From my reading, that wculd be a 22 very substan.ial help and in f act wculd relieve the kind Of grump that I've just been carrying on.

.c..sm., a.cor m. ac.

U MR. 3IC:DCT:

As we had drafted it, in the final a

e,-

w-w u.

-e f

i nta 13 il 28 ll 1 :l sentence there was some softening language.

We did not intend t.

te be bounded to a tight, promptly as practicable standard.

't e*

And this would be consistent with that, Jce.

.t a

d \\\\

i,1 s'

1,

ll 7 ;l L

u I

a.;

a1 a

...ei I

' * :j

,, u,

~

u.,

4i i.

p. i t

.t

.a. saere neoa r,,,. ne.

-c

25603012v sap 1

CHAIRIAAN HEICRIEt Do you want to try to advance 2

one?

Is 1: that my eyes grew old and dim, or is there a 3

distinct naze in the back of Inis room?

CO W4I 55 IONER 3R A' ::)RD :

I:'s ceer. na:y all through

)

5

ne cay. ' I think somecody's rese

ne air conditioner.

o CocAMISSIONEW AHEARN:s ine cuestien is wne:ner 7

i t's =ci sture er no t.

e CHAIRMAN HE'CRIE:

Well, I dcn' smell a I

9 ccmmustien proce ss.

!O Co.uI55IONER BriALFORLt iou notiee wnen you s:ec li outsice tre room it's a 10: no tter in here.

I: may =e 12 steam.

2 CHAIRMAN -iE

CRIE:

I. gives tne wncle ning a sor:

14 c

creamlike as ect.

I: goed with some parts of the 15 proceecings.

16 (Laugn:er.)

17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Anyway, onward.

The remaining le i ssue s, okay, s pe cif ici ty.

Now, let's see, could you help iv us with :na:, Lan?

.n.,....-

.... : t..w t i :

sure.

..ne nex:. s st. e,

nink no c-

.a c 2i easies; way Oc approacn i; is lock a Option i anc 2.

22 Le-'s nc talk abcut u=:icn 3 quite yet.

Tnere's ceen 23 scme -

24 C-i A IRt4AN -iENDRIE:

fina if :na. c p;icn ;e acs 50 25 unworka 1e s;11:s of five vo es?

l l

i i

l l

I 1

-.W m

g

.y.,

e.

30

!5603C230 l

cap i

MR. 5I Ct; WIT There's bcon some ciscussion coau 2

the language in tne craft order embracing in too-firm terms 3

the particular actions ena; are listed.

If you want :o incicate no: that you've ceterminec :na: :bese are the t

5 a;;rc;ria'te ac tion, bu: that at this coin: this is wha t you 6

believe will ce the a ppro pria te ac tions, then what we would 7

acvise is to go with Option I,

the languag'e of wnich reacs,

ne aoove-listed ac; ions require th's provisional anc has o

l.

Oeen basec on recommendations given Oc the Commi ssion by NRC

~

l3 s ta f f.

That may te supplementec or mocified by :ne Board 12 as a result of :ne evicen ce presentec et :he nearing and i3

na it cces nc: re;resen; :ne fixed or final visas Of the la Commi ssion and that we woulo make some acjustmen ts :c ei:ner

(

15 language whicn is.now in tne craf: to follow :nat :ncugn An... -,, _ 2 c.sm =

net _, uen, wcu.: One,ssue C.,,,,4m.,, e.,, f4 = n,

, o.

us Aw i

17

here tna we'd =e trying to cmmunicate by -- I : uld read is it several ways.

I can read i: a s, we con' t knos unetner IV

ney're rign: or noi, the staff thinks Oney're rign; anc 20 de're neu:ral, or I can read it as, 4e anc the staff :nir.k 21

nese are a; ropr a:e, cu: :nere may e ::hers :na ae can':

22 (now accu: anc ae're leaving :na: Open.

Or i: mign: ce, 23 nere's wna: :r.e staff t r.i nk s.

We have Our own views en: we 24 aren'; saying yet.

25 VR. 5ARRY:

it's :ne se :Onc. wi:P Ore l

~. _-.

.=.-

15c430331 31 tap-I modification, tnet :ns actions not only may =e insufficient, 2

but they may be unnece ssary.

In other words, the lis:

?. a y 3

ce too long as well a s :co snort.

4 CD/.1ISSIONER HEARNE:

EU: we've alreaty, haven't

\\

5 we, recom' mended f or most cf them that other plan:5 must oc o

tnis.

7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I was going :c say it's no:

E precisely a unique new lis

nat we've never sean and I-y agent:ed over before..

It has a certain modes: -- w ha t ?

10 cistinction :o it, f rom Com.mi ssion action.

If One li Commission?

12 MR. 5 IC;C' IT :

Nonetheless, sner you list as one of il f:ur issues ane:her :ne ac tion s are ne ce ssar:, ana 14 suffi:ient, you're ackncalecging that tne Scart nas :ne i

as leeaAy to cecice Ins: scme are unnecessary.

w. s...,S I,, o., -.,

ces a... -. t.c.

s...

we.save a. ready, a _.

.u w

can w.

17 leas; as far as we're concerned, we've alreacy saic f or many l

i

c of

nem :nat they are nece ssary, in our view.

iv.

MR. E LC.t.111 :

Yes Out in eacn :a se wnere you've 20 s ai; Of.a, yo u na ve gran

a s:atu:Ory rign

a nearing 21 on :na question.

Anc ners, you are again gran:ing su:n a 22 r ign:.

I :nink it wculd te require: as a ma :er :f law to 23 aliew :ne Boare. c questien :he nace ssity --

2-

'CUMMI 55IONER AH EARWE I'-

arguin;.

..at.

L.P :

25 I'm really trying to accress it, wny snct;:

,me ;anguage i

)

1 n

v-

+

-p,,-.-

1,,,..y----

y--

--,wg

-ww-r

• -y w

-wi-s-

r-r e

v v-vv

' - ' - ' - e

32

.00l23 0422 gap i

na; we use ce any diff eren; than we've usec cef ore?

2 TAR. SICAWIT:

Unne ce ssary, insufficient, it isn't.

3 COMMI55 ION 5R AHEARNE:

Su : :ne rest of :nis is,

....s, a

i

. ~ J.u...i r e e.r n r : n-C.r _, I.u..c r

a-..so,,.--,,..a.,.

v i.-- u i_

s o

s.cecific :o -his case.

7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

What have we seen on :ne c:her

.ae.- s,.

v

!.t R. SICKWIT:

In ne c ner creers, you've said you i-nac 0 0; certain actions.

Inen you neic a nearing sniae

.11 these ac-ions aere ceing cone.

12 0024ISSIONER AHEARNE:

I cen't tnink we sai:

1

,,,a

..,,,.,e.

.=..-.a

....,.... -.....,......L..,..,,.

t; u

n - *. o.... '... a..' a.. s,~ o ". ' ' * ~ "

• . b e c. a ' '..

e is

.... mICKWIT:

Nc, you cidnot.

!6 C'MMI55IONIR GILIN5KY:

There are two sincs of 17 ocjects in :ere, nere are requiremen s whicn nave a:;11ec 16 in t he pa s; to c ne r 3..W li cen s ees,

nere are a wncle cunch l

- - n.... 3..a. a -

.t v,.-....'.e s e.d. d..'.-.>se.

. '. ' i. x=s s

i, e.

-a

-e

..e c.

s.

..u.

21 anctner nearing af arwar:s.

...... ~. -. - -

4e..

--y4.... - a.. ~,v,e..~4 u4

.. v,oy,y.

23 nere.

24 CGMMIi3IONER AH3ARh3:

I kn0w i~'s e Oi.' fire 9~

.. =. '. ' wa A

l '

' s *. ~. ~/.'.*.

=.* " a s *.

A-.' A " = r.

.e.... a..

7-3 u*.

y

~_

33 1560305'33-4 kap I

can't say clearly what it i s.

2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYJ Tnen I think you have to 3

sacarate out the items that dere icenticai to tnose requirec 4

in ner B&W-plants, tree; tnem one way., enc :nen treet

' ('

o

lan:-specif t: questions another way.

o Why do you wan; then toge ther?

7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIEJ I don't agree.

I :nink they 6

fer: a cla ss whien ha r :ns same aspect as any otner plants, y

na: is, ac'TxI-I :ne rs a re w na : I call :ne S&W generic 10 ite s, snor: term, ;ius the sner:-term c:ncerns scacific to ll

., I-l anc, octn in :ne ca se of TMI-I anc in the case of 12 c:ner plants, we nave sat: -- i n :n e case Of the other l3

. ants we nave.sai

: ness are the sacr -ter-its:3.

14 reople want to argue accu: : hem, they can nave a 1:

nsa.-ing anc :nere's no implication tha; our traers on :ne

\\

16 other plants that a hearing, a license rep:r: Je:isier, 17 fellowing a hearing, mign: not come out anc say, take 16

. equi. ement nu=ce r :nr ee, i t's unne:essary, and then 1r

. equirement num0e r f our, you n eed twice as many wi.es or 20

=c ::: :s er wna:ever.

2i f ou sac e.

na:'s clearly :here, anc in the 7"*-:

22 case :ropo sec now :: nave a nearing bef:re :ne re star: :,.a:

~

22

ne sner -term items nave :he same esce:: -- nere a.e ar 2-

s. ray-cf shor:-te r-i tems :

ce ccm:le ec refore res;ar:

25 wni:n c.e su ject to tne ne aring?

l

,.-.a 3

,e.

m

,p.y-y-+m-w--

m-n-

w

.w me-+'e

256,030634 34 The Boarc may tnrow one out, double ano ther one sep i

2 u p, f inc an n-plu s-on e tha t it wants, but it doesn't seem to 3

oe a cifferen-configuration.

Inceec, as you say, we 4

..a v a..a. '. '.a.

.7 o s =. - =.. a. 2 s '..' ~, ", o "

.<...o w.

..*.'.e

.'.e a

.-.v'ed

..=.-

i.

5 list.

o Cou.MI5SIONER GI LIN5sY 2 But tnere are c:ner.

7 concerns.

Le t's take one specific way in whien :nis c e se cLilers fro; ctner cases.

You've go-TMI-l and T:.'I-2 ;L ec 9

ogether in various ways.

10 CHAIMnAd HENDRI-Ge :ing that unrave.eo is ons

t. 1

n..

..,.a.

.a.n. n....

.a.-n

.e,5.

12 CD,4MI SS IO.?5R CI LINSKY :

4o, but I oc ': -.i n k :ne s. s." -..e --a.

c.-s.C

.~.

n.* 2 - <.... s..

.a.'...=.

...a.

..-,...=.e...,

=

y.

o y...

1 i-

o know in oe: ail exac-ly wna these are.

.u: 1: w a sn' t ce:ai.ec in ar.y.

l o.

unA.-i nM A N n..=nsn.:

c lo of :na c-her cases or any Of the c her items, ei-her.

)

1 17 says, one of :ne shor - erm :nings is oc an enalysis of 1:

small creek _0CAs anc transiencs.

I; doesn'- sa y ar.a -all ly

.1.,.g o

.<n <..

y

..,.... -.e....

n,.7,.

g

- a..u.. s.n..v.,. : -t

a. -.

a 2i a na ney. ave ;ro ;c sec ' 5, The licensee s.a..

ake a::i:ns

,..w p. a. 3....3

.I g p4.

2. 3..-. a...-

.s..,/..

.4

.-....<..g

1....

i... T.e e ". *..* *. '. *. ^. e.* 8..# ^ ^ -

2.

2.1 a a.- 3. 4. p. 3 m.

?_*

w <..!

...a i

.g

".'. f '..

..e.psj f. a.

.. 3 *. -. a..= g

s.. =..

g

.e.s g o.l..at *.r*

=..s=..e

.s =.

4

.- w.e

, og a.

.c a...a 3. z g."..s

.a.

.m. a. - a.

~~

.' s..a.m.

(. s.

s i

l We d

=

.m

1 400 sJ V /J3

• 5 2

4

.< a p I

ccoons rctcc ce: ween tne two.

2 Co.v.44I SS IONER GI LIN5.<Y :

Your point i s ---

\\

cd. MM. 5 I0d a An. An. N.-=:

My po in t is.'m still i

3 i

c

=

r

... #. 4. - o..i..

.,, -. *. =o s a. ~

.==.....e

.o -=.

.=~.=.y..=.-

4 c

..f. n y-I

\\

.. C.'.".g c"............0.

. ' '. ' s.a.n C =.

e-.1..= =.. *

• s e=. *.....e s e..' ".

a.

a t ions t'.an t he.cre viou s orc ers.

I'. navine. dif ficul ty o

r 7

un ers;ancing wny.

I can certainly uncerstanc entirely Wa..4.n

..4

e. c.. E F..

.i., F...

.s..a.s,,, n. s.4....,, n an w, I

8 00

. r

.a.

9 y

Ona!.

SUt I con't Uncerstand why We are pT ar 47g a diST.Ce f.::n iL

• nis sB L Ce ause I OninK t.*. 9 set o! 90 ~iC1s Ena; we pU; in i

o

...a.

ma. c. O.?

m. y.

V.. e. r. w

a. r 3 e.,..A m.

a. m. m. e

c..a.m.. s o.

..g. a.

u.r a.,

w Ic Will reCUlra.

.'. u..... :

_~.n._.

..e

..... a..e..e......+...;.

1

..f i-u.t.. =

.m. 13 n.. s e e

.4.m. 7 y.

31C.CA I I con't celle e i-is ne:e ssary.

is te n.

s 1x.-

.,,3 f,. e.c.r,,,..... _ I. :., v.

_ s/ s e.,,

o c L. :,.

4.

.... n

..a

.., i i7 w..a.

.he s. = " "..m a.e i a '..~ c u. a s

= w ".... a. r...= d - - a-..'-..-..-

I:

be :ne s:sff's view an: one of :ne reasons to ncid e neering is *..*

A+ ' nc u w

• n.a..=.=.'.'"f c",...

v.

.' o. e..n.=. - =. a = y.

~ -=

1y

,..._ e w.

.4

-m

.,.e.,.

3..

.2 4 y...

2.

2

.- 3., 2

..a

.e.

.. a. s/

.yv...

3 g

.ja....

3.4..444

.f

..m.'.t./. y

..a.

..... -....+ e

..o w.

....*.......s.e.e. 4 - m.

..3 3 m, r.

-m 2....

d.4

..e.'.a ' '..'.

=.9y d =. *..='..'

• • '...*..'.9.s"

's =.

• a V *..

4J i......

4 s.e 3

c y.

...-e.

.e.. a. w

3..

.s. a.

.-=..-.e.e

...-4.

. =-

+

4

.S e.

c 4......t v,

a..l v.i.g,-. r.

..g g..s.e d.

36

ouaveac cap 1

CO.st:4I5510NER AMiARNE:

I gue ss we've probacly gono 2

into it, at least as much, if ne more than we wen: in to 1:

3 one One o:ner plants :na we saic couic star: up.

r..,

n...s I.e.c..r, v. _ 7 m.; i.*..., v..

I

.. /...w. 4.m.

- w o,. /.e, J

J.

a i

r i g..:.

I Inink we cic go over that once in some ce aii, anc O

I :nink they were very much mere s ecific.

7 C:MMISSIONER AriEARNE:

A let Of these are very d

sifi.1Aar.

CD:4l4!SSIONER GILINSKY :

Tha v s rign: to :he extent y

l's ney are.

1. 1 C.' )."..>.'.."..f W.. : ".

.$.."....a..:. 4..:

2...

.T....' "... *.....

12 resce:. :o T.'4 I -l anc 2 we nave procaciy spen; more -1,e on 1

.... - g

,, m.

i :.

-,., a.

mw.

...,.,s-,.

.1.,...,..,. g r 4,...

1-CD,414ISS 10 DER G!i. inh (:

r'og know. wnen you ge:

Ib cas:

ne sort of stancarc 5c.*

lis ac=itec :c 0:ner piants I d' you're alking, really, no: acout ac-ions bu: areas of I,.

. n.....

.r..,nc e.'..s.

a. 4 s.....-,

.s i...< n

.o 4

Ic Commission's satistaction of these 1: ems will be rec;uirec..

Ir Ina:'s One :ning, but say you. ave :: co X or

..:.d : = v e r.

I jus

on'

.r.i ns -

~

2i C04 di35 IC6 ER A.E.:.RNE:

na v wna.1; say s,

,a,f..,._.,.,

..o - o..

.%.en u u.

.. 4n.

.,ie r. / s-e

_e..

..f

'.. u.".."..'..o." *. w '..a

..a *... *..* ~..". a r. v, w 's '

• s,**.".#.'i.'a. liv. *

• e * *.. " ' **

a w.

y.

J. 9 8.3..'

3.

. d.A.,.%. g

..s. j..

j.[ g

.A$

6..$ 4P'b.

.J1 g/ @

.g E

-s j Mg

a. v.e 2. g 3.=...=..' s..

.4 m..d i

4..e. e. s 2.",.

=a..m

.* a.g e.e.

..s p..

m. a s..ep / *.

.e g.y.

m

== ~

.w A,

e a s.

_-.-__,,___,,,.,,,,m

., w w w Y wq 3,/

I kap i

shcule ce cut off anc which valves ough: to be pu t in, whien 2

connections ought o ce severec.

It coesn't co that.

.i MR. SICKWITr I'd jus like to say. I acn'; Onink 4

it.oule-nave any legal significance sne:her nis were in or t.

...p.. a.. J =...'. n c.-

a. x... - =...e.i.ng y u.

s. a. a a.'

.,...a..

o.. r..

~

I e

and level cf confidence.

t 7

COMIdEIONER 3 RAD.:0RD:

My interest in this area

.. e.e.

. =..=.'.' y,.

• P. a d. u,.i n...*.

.e a. r.

r. d.

e was a c.'.a d. a. - =. n.. a a.a., an.d to :ne las. sentence of your second oction.

I coule cu:

y l'

..'. a. 2 e r.. e r...=

.. =.... e. w '....=.'. c.=. e n y... 4.7,,,

".,w*.

7 scu.*

I1 4.s..

s e

.s s.

..nc.

i.4 3

.a...

e..

2 12 CDs.lGSSIONER AMEARNE:

You :.ean, Gn :ne basis et i.i -

.a.

..a. a '.. y e...

a..-. a.

.'...a..

4

~ n.f,.4 I ww p)p;.: d en 1.;

o rt.4...<) M,

v...

I, s, u.,......,..

ww 6

.=

w.

...a.

.. n o..'., n s

.aa

...a.

in.'.la

w. a. '. e

..=.'4'.*..,

i.

-d w

1 i

l-

. *a. 4. ' s e.=.'.' '/

a n t r.a.

b e.e.' s. '.

..".a.

.h a. a..'...,,

.. w.'.1 1 " a.

I~i ce:erminec wne:ner we star; as per.10 ac at a.,.1 I-C').d..V. I.#.' IP.. ' :.0

.e.. sn.1 :.-

7

.= m, a..4.. 4. =.' ",..,d.e.<..,,

s.

17 scaetning because I e.o u g n..na : in ne case cf enere a 4

.S I*

=. a. m.- 4. q C,'

4 3

• s..e., s.e.d w a.. h e. d =.* s.

g a.l.s a...

.e.s.a m.a a. - a 3.

.=.=

s. a. y

.m a.. 3..a a w

i j

. =.w,.. w.

.g..

.,q.s.g

..g

d.... m.,.. o.

3 1...

n.

t.,4 I

,. s.mi w,.e

..sgo.

.?

.4

.f.

..y wy...

..i 2.2 s*.ep.

CT5.Wi. w w

' * =

• n.s.=.=. =. n'.' '.,.= w.%'.i.

~. ~.. ' ~..=.- a. s.a =..~..

~~.....s..

lu

.r we

.w..

T

.s n

m.T.a w v.e. t.

3. s.

. e.5 wIi.f 4 3.g., a.

.t.a. =. n.

m u r.

,s..e, 4

ee U.

J.wwVe a

ne d'.**

.r w.

s 6 eu 1*

g g a.o.g o g.i e = n e ms 1 4 2.m. w.

4.4 4

. m. a..g s.

3 w 4 e,, p..q m a. n.m..y.. s g s..e.,

.m e ea 4l..a -

s s e sy w.s e

.r. 4

..e w

V I

i I

i y

y

,-9ii

+

38 150331 C'36 Kap I

mpaiance as cetined by the Boarc on tne basis of not only 2

hat out also o;her contentions raised in the nearing eno 3

ne tr resolu tion.

.,...... O y y.m....

w..

.e....

.n..

.1...i.,

s.,.

.....u.

w.

....j

(.

near the =eginning of :ne or:.er.

Ana: was Ana: nad lac.me o

c raise a concern in :nis area.

.ya.. r.nwgA w.i.t.

. s.

/.e

. 3 3.4 1

.-.,. e....

)

t v c

C01415510n*2h A.ilAA.;2:

I cartainly don't nave any y

orob.ets that I can :ning of in saying :ba: :he nearing will ce ne casts ror ce:ermina:!cn of wne:ner :: era:icn wil. ce i

res"mec.

12 00"MI55 IG.iER 5P ASFOR;:

Tne metring en: One

... - ~.., ~

.( '... -

i.-

e.,

..e

.... r...'. r. '.*. u'.' = e c

...2..-2

. ne se conci icns, woe.2 ee One casts for ary pro /isica for i

i :

re s tar.

i i

lo vam.u s:4un:n n r. A _ a. _

it procacey cecends on sna n

.n..

.sc....<,9

n. s 2.

t. i

,-..<.n.n..

w..

,.4 y a.

Io cen entions.

Iv C ol.'l.t li5103 ER S R ALFO R D :

. air enougn.

Ano :ne a......,...t

.s 5

.a.....,. __

An... An..1:r

r. e s:,..

nave 44

. u m.. t se m.. :.

.a. b.:

n.

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6

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.50.05.11 b 39 4a 1

effec;. anc if you' like it nect the beginning of :he 2

or:er, 1: can go there.

3 Co.wd! 55 !O.lER GI LI NS K t 2 Le t's s ee, wnere aces that

)

idave us witn respect *c list.s crecerec by :.e s af f

(

1 6

'.E SICOET: It would leave you that these a.re the aced ~.s you're s.=..,..~4".'.*.

'. ".. - a. s =

, ". o - ~..~.4.q -- moved r.

.f.

o.- e d.. ~.,

a y.

7

ne case of One long-term ac:10ns as a condition to r e s ta r t w4.-

.., n.. 3. e..<.,. w. e

m. o a -.d.

4. s

• .o

.1 ^ k.. =.

• a. s a.

I, anc cecice wne:ner Onese are necessary anc wne nar :ne se are y

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15 unnacessary or insuf ficiar.;, :nen :na Soar: is fres :: ;c'

'.;.+..=.. 2. v a -. ' w = '/ '.

i3

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17 sees fi:7

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17 CO.4A(I SS ION ER GI LIh5KY :

Tne Commi ssion is icoking

.S.,.

3 J..a. -...a..s...' d..e..

..n i

4 9.

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24 Co.'A!.'I 55 ION ER G I L I N SK :

Tnere :. 5 n' su;;est.:n

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.4 5. n,.. a.,, a. s e n 4

.. n w ~.. 4.. a.

5cC21240 40 Kap I

omorrow.

fou nave someone coming in anc requesting e 2

nearing.

-,C A,,W I A :

This is your cest guess, is the way J

M, n,.

=t 4

I WCulO put i t.

\\

,.,gh ac.,ons and

' w,.. :.t 4..

, J, a,, c. R G I, I n.. _. f 2 a. ;aa.

ca Ae.

s o

encerns?

7 MR. S I Cr# IT

• S o th.

....., s I :h., n.4 indesc since it ought c

unAl,.aAo ncawnic n

t to ' e cur bes: list, if we hac no: decicec to have this c

y we're trying to consicer 90w on i U proceecing ce cre restert li restart :ni s woule ce tne list.

12 COMMI5S IONER GI LI.Nd.s!

• I guess wna: I'm saying is' 13 na : cefore I a;ui: made na: ce ision. I would san:

nave 14 eitner a pro:eecing er ne equivalen of a proceecing here

~

15 cefore :ne commissioners. 50 na: I'can come o a final view 10 cn' 'a nat t ha t is gcing o be.

I can't :nink we've done :ha t, 17 I certainly naven't cone tna:.

ic CHAIRMAN HENDRIE*

Well, we've cone it in as grea; iv cegree nere as we've cone 1 for c:ner,5sw plan s.

We've 20 nad staff criafings on :ns' r ;re: ssa list,.te've 'een 21 listening :: 5&a, anc TMI i ssues in various f erma:s nere.

22 CD'4M

• 5SIONER SI LINSKY

• I gue ss I don't :nink 22 we've cone it in enougn ce:si..

Anc alsc, * :nink 1:s' a 24 s;scial :ase.

25 C-i. I RMA.1 H EdC R I E t Why con' we agr ee to cisegree.

I me seh.,4m+m

'- i-e rr

="rir

&-m'+

'I" m'+*w etw' W

G'""'ggr---

e-+s s

y*P"

156G3i341 41 xap 1

anc let me ask. Len, in orcer to try to finisn 3-A, if ne 2

wouic tell us wnat he's got in mind and a possioie thiro 3

op:1on unoer this general A 9eacing?

..r..., [.

.<.4 e.,

i

.4 actions m'ay.,

nanolec 'Oy ru.e:aking. sc e actions in 3

o re sconse to ne a cticent.

.ne wom91ssion may encose c

7 implemen: 1:s response to :ne acciden

nreugn rulemaking 3.,. p i.,.

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croceecing.

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42 i

i t

jy COMMISSIONZR AEEA?liZ:

Could you give me an example j

k

,i 2h of the kind of issue you are thinking of?

i MR. 3 CT4IT :

" dell, let's sav..veu have an emervency

's n

4j plan.

i

j i

.c h.

CEAIRMAN EENDRII:

Hardware is easier.

It nakes it

.Il

'l 6h less site-specific.

Suppose we had decided, the staff decided, 11 f

de following is a general proposition:

that because of the U

l..

a configuration of the S&W system, that a sing'a

-a i d a ' valve er 9

bicek val.e in that line was not acceptable configuratien, and 1

10 4, we decided after ac.e. ropriate analysis that a pere valve series 43 11 ] parallel array provided ancther decade of reliability of bed i

1:,

cpening and closing, and that dis was in Iact required, it i

13 provided the necessary inprovement in public health and safety l

- 1 14 to neet 51 c 09 or anv. other standard v.ou want.

I 15 hl l

If we just said, "' cck, every S &W wants to Operate,

16 i you have to put One of these in on the following schedule, er 4

n 17 'I this arrav. in en the fclicwine. schedule," would we de that bv il is ; rule er by crders to the licensees?

I.

17 MR. 3 *CT,CT :

You could do it ei der way.

This says i

t dat if ycu cheese to go by rule, then you will drop this issue i

i 21 ' cut of here.

1 i

CEA~RMAN EINOFCZ:

And if we chose te ;c by crder?

1, il 23 l MR. 3:074:T :

"' hen ycu would not.

I 24 CEA~?. MAN HIND?lI:

That we would still be within.he J

1 a:p.8 r;Fei accor*MS MC. !

1

SIhearing?

"I 4

. amos

.ma

i,

\\

43 i

i 1

MR. BITET:

Yes.

This would be just one of those 2i crders.

1 I

2' COM: CSS:0!ER MIAENI:

So, if ! get it correctly, what g

i 4j you're saying is that it doesn't refer to anything on the short-5 term list, even though many of these are generic, and it doesn't y

6i refer to anything on the long-term list.

As long as we have 1

7 directions to the other plants that they must do it.

]

3 MR. BITET:

Cther than through rulemaking.

9 COMMISSICNIR MIA.TE :

But that's not a direction for si 10 '!

the clant?

3 I I

't MR. BICKWIT:

But if you propose a ruls --

12 ;

CO.'t".~SSIONIR MIARNI:

But that's not a direction to f,

13 i the plant;*that's proposing a rule?

n 14 y MR. SI T E7:

Cf ten you can achieve that objective 3

15" drcugh a rule.

16 CCleCSSIONIR AIIARNI:

But after the rule had.been i

.O I,

'7 ' ccmpleted, if the rule were to be ec=pleted and a s a result of a

la! the rule, de other plants had to do it, then this plan: wculd

'i have te do it also.

i 20 t MR. SI T E T:

Under de rule, but not as a result of I' ! any action taken u. der dis proceeding.

l 22 4 COMM 55 CNIR MIARNI:

Ett it would nce then fall --

22 let us consider that scenaric in which chis proceeding takes 22 five years, and the rule is cc=pleted in two years, and the w =,e n a.w m. x.

If1 requirement is laid down tha~

a

~"ese plants have to de dings.

l m- -

m

=v3 44 i

i i

l 1

Are you saying, therefere because the rule has been ec=pleted 2 j.

first, this plant doesn' t have to do it?

0 2

MR. SICrd!!:

No.

The rule applies to this plant the same as it applies to everv other clant, end therefore there is a.

t 5 '?

no need to consider -

il 6i COMMISSICNER AEEARNE:

Then it f alls under the long-Il 7 f term actions category.

r, S;

MR. BICrdIT:

Fine.

I 9..

COMMISSIONER AEIA?sE:

Then this must be still a

.I I

10 il dird category of item, which is that category of item which t

'l J has net ye: been thcught cf in the icng-term lis t or the short-12 ;

term list.

i i,

13 :

MR. 3:Cr4IT:

Sun we don' t know what the Cc= mission's 14 ;[ posture will be with respect to all long-term actions which may 15 -

ccme cut of the Lessons Learned report.

The Cor=ission may 16 '

decide --

1 1

'7" COMM SSIONER AEIARNE:

It's an item that has not ye:

16 really been detec: tined for the other plants; that's right.

If CEAI?J!AN HENDR~E:

No.

'!: cocid be one of the long-20, term issues already identified.

a 211 CO.E SSIONER AEIA?sI:

And tasked fcr all the : her l

22. :' ants.

- s.

--d..

'a,

-au' w.s,;.; vAy _e-...

.e va e

i e2 ahead and decide that you' re going Oc de ene of these deferred i o.s,e m, a.co m n. w. i j

25 actions in Table ;-l by ru'e.

I dcub: that we would.

l l

. pV4 I

49 I

1 COMICSSIONER AHEARNE:

But those actions have to task 1

1 2 i,. with the other plants.

13j CHAIRMAN EENDRII:

It's in th e process.

, s f

Il d /,

'COCMISSIONER AHEARNE:

It's in the process.

It hasn't

.i 5 '! been tested.

I am talking about those long-term actions that i

si6 ) have been tasked to the plants.

ll 7 !!

CEAIRMAN HINDRII:

I don' t know actually whether they [

3 have been laid on the other plants or not.

Does anybody know 1

7[, whether Harold has gone out and said, "Hi, there, everybody.

10 :t1 Oc 0578"?

il

'I MR. SICKWIT:

I believe not.

i J

12 '

CHAIRMAN HENDRIZ:

You know, we were talking about it,

~

t 13 j what, last week or something like that.

They kept harassing n

'a, them about were they or weren't tiiey.

They said they intend to.-

n 15 Ckay.

But it could be.

But why limit it to the enes in rule, l

i 16 i if there were issues which were approrpriate to solve to deal i

17 with on a generic basis?

4 4 1 MR. BICrdIT :

Well, in the typical situstion you will

'I have the alternatives before you as to whether to go by rule,

A. j by order, or by letter.

If you choose to go by order, then 21,1; there doesn' t seem to be any particular reason not to use dis

~

22 ] proceeding -:o order the action with respect to dis point.

If 1

23 d you choose to go by rule, a rule should have application to all

" > plants, and there doesn't seem'to be any reason to deal wi n ac.s.e.<

=.o. m w.'

S4

.i that issue in the course of :his proceeding.

~

I

I L

t 46 l

1, COMMISSIONER AHEAR!E:

If what you're trying to get i

Y at that if the Commission is opening as a rulemaking under way i

3 ', to decide an issue that it's ina-o. rcoriate then for the board e

g a

to decide'that issue?

5;'

MR. 3:CKNIT:

That's exactly right.

> i.

s~

6; CCM!CSSIO!ER AEIAR!E :

Would that normally be the 7!

practice?

3 MR. BICKWIT:

Yes, that would.

It would normally be 7

considered an incensistend action by a regulatery ce= mission to

i lu.

li have a rulemaking on it, and then with a plant to which the

'l rule would apply if made final go out with a specific crder

.i I

..I dealing with precisely the same suhject.

.1 I3 :1 COMMISSIC!ER AHEARNE:

Wouldn't the board then knew

'I

- u 14 q that and therefore automaticall'y put that issue aside?

a Ul MR. BICKWIT:

But you may have already listed it, d

16 ] though, the issue.

Then' the board would feel obligated, if you

.I

,. 'i M-

• ake it out, tt consider it.

You've also said wi d Mi respect to issues that haven' t been dealt with, you also said icok at the sudficiency of the ac.icns we've required.

If you

~

20 then come cut with a rule that deals wid an action that we i

31 haven't yet though: Of, de beard may f eel constrained :

nove 1

22 inte an examination of wheder the code cf conduct described by 23! that rule ought :

be required cf TM -1.

It's been ::1d, after 1

1-a 1, to loo.x at :ne sur:2.ciency of the actions which have been u,.. w. n x,m. n.

• t required, and it seems to me -hat you Ought to f=110w On this

i l

s,' *.

47 1.'

crder with an additional crder saying don't look at that if l

I 2j you've get a rulemaking outstanding.

I 2

Otherwise, you have one proceeding in which you've 4,

41 get some kind of informal procedures going forward en a specific ll o

5' action, and you've got an adjudicatory hearing for one' plant l

6 ! dealing with precisely the same subject matter, and there doesn' t l

7 seem to % any reason to single out that plant and prescribe 8!

special precedures.

i 9'

CCFSCSSIGNIR AEIARNI:

Wouldn't the easiest way to i

10 handle dat be to go out for de rule?

i,'

't3 MR. SICKWIT:

That's exactly the way you would handle 12 !

it.

We would simply have some language in there saying that i

13 li that's what you would intend to do.

l 14 ;'

If this is giving any Cc==issioner any prcblems, t

15 -

there is no croblem whatscever with dropping this cut.

}

1 16,

C:26ICNER A.EIA7.NE: It would hel.= se a great deal if

'Ill 17 ? I knew of a specific rule er issue that was on line to be iil

.i I

6;, addressed by that.

I MR. SIC.TC :

Any one of those issues in the Lassens 20 ) Learned report could be dealt with by a rulemaking.

Staff has

1 no: told us what their prcpesal is with respect to how these

.i

'l issues are gcing to be deal: with.

In fact, they've indicated 23 an inclina:ica not to ge by a rulemaking.

1

4 C052C55:CNIR AEIAANI:

You see, you start cut here, ace.*gcCral 20CCm,1. IMC. j j

l.

25 l you're culling the lists of Ocncerns; vou scra these cha:

t a

l d

i l

l I

1

- a 48 o

i 1

are essentially generic.

I' read this option as you're moving I

l 2l all generic actions but it isn't holding a place for any action i

f 2 L.. that we desire to put into a rulemaking.

It's pulling the list

(

e -

1 at hand.,

5l MR. 3ICr4IT:

see.

Well, the concept is tilat this i

i i

6 ',

would not go into operation until you'actually proposed a rule 7

with respect to a given kind of activity, and if that doesn't j

h Y

t I

i; ccme through, it can be =ade to ecme through.

CEAIRMAN HINCRII:

The culling or not culling migh:

.i M 0 or might not take place with language preposed for the crder.

a

.I If cne wantedtcinclude it, it would just be stuck at the tcp 12 of page 9, the Com.tission was considering, et cetera, et cetera.

~

U [i MR. SICE.CT :

I do not feel tha: this.is an issue n

U j that you have to resolve now if it's giving you any difficulty.

.I I3 i COMMSSIONER AEIARNE:

Let me ask you another question.

I i

16 [i. The language that you had prcpesad, including says we are cen-sidering cpposing generic requirements if any such generic acticn

~

is taken and the action impinges upon any of the matters in

- a

', this prcceeding, we will issue a separate order removing the M

mstrer ~

a a hearing; che generic requirements may be taken by i

me al> Crder, hv directive.

1

,-' i ME. 3ICrd:T: That is not whac this sentence means by

," generic action."

'4 4

.d l COMM SSIONIR idIIAFSI:

When the directive says "all ic...e. a.oom. m. '

~$ Iplants de dis," that is the generic requ:.remen: made by the 1

, f..

49 t

i 1

director.

i i

2i MR. SICKWIT:

That was not what the draf ters meant by,

I

'l

~

- " generic requirement."

What the drafters meant was a rule.

.i 4j

' COM3.253ICNER AEEARNE :

I may not have any difficulty 5 'I if it is redrafted.

+

1 6',

MR. 3:CDTIT:

I think that's what should be done.

1 7!

CHAIPF.AN EENDRIE:

Would a Cc-4 ssion order reach into:

l 9

the category of things --

t i:

MR. BICKWIT:

Generic?

Uo, not under our concept.

10,

COMMISSICNER AHEARNE:

You were really talking about rule:uking.

You were really saying if it would go, Out in a 12 rulemkaking one of these --

13 -

MR. 3 C'CCT :

That's what we w"ere talking about.

l, 14 a COMMISSIONER AEEARNE:

I don't think :

would have 15 any trouble with that.

CHA*RMAN EINDRII:

Would you have any trouble with 16 i il

'7l leaving the dar.ned ding out?

I l

,6 !

CcMM;3s:CNER AHEAPlTE :

Not at all.

j i

CHAIPS.AN HENCRII:

It see::3 tc me if we ::ck scme i

20 ' generi: actions and we felt that a particular generi: n:tien, 21 whether it was an erder er whether it had gone de rulemaktng i

rcute, if we felt dat it was of such a nature that it would be appropriate to secep it Out of de TM -i preceedings and ;ust de l

.I 23 i: en a generic basis and not have a contentien in tha. pro-

...a.w a.wrw o ne. ;

25 ceeding, we culd always decife that at the time.

But we have 1

l P

1 l

l l

l

n i

l 50 1

hI 1"

got an order of the TM -l board, saying, "Hi, there, send back l

I 2 l Item 7.

We're managing it over here."

d 3 ',

MR. SICKWIT:

This language dcesn't de any thing.

It 1

' ;; simply announces an intention to do something.

You prefer not o

5 to announce it, simply to do it at times, there is no problem.

6, CEAIRMAN HENDRIE :

t mumbles suggestively, in the 1

7!

Commission's beard.

If I were a little clearer just exactly 9

what the implications of the mumbling were, I might have strenger 9l

, feelings about either loving it or hating it.

On balance, it 10 seems we don't need it.

,,i

%R. BICKN!T:

The cption of remcVing it is looking 1",

increasingly attractive.

1 I3 :

CHA!RMAN EENDRIE:

Do I have strident opposition here 1

1 I#

to not putting that paragraph or a modified version in?

l

,,'" l COMMISSICUER 3 RAOTCRD:

Ycu wouldn' t have strident 1

l 16 j cpposition on it, anyway.

t I,'

l CHAI??.AN.EENDRII:

Dr0p it.

There seems clear to be 1

M'a disinclination here to be enthused abcut it, and I will declare that the chair is incapable of proceeding to the next l

20 item --

~M s list, so we will adjourn this meeting.

We will mee: again en T:iday if ternocn.

U' (Whereupon, at 4:40 p.m.,

the mee ting was adj ourned,

to reconvene en Friday, August 3, 1979.)

end=4 e

m....o.,. a.uormi n u

• =

,