ML20134Q012

Transcript of 970212 ACRS Theraml Hydraulic Phenomena Subcommittee Meeting in Los Angeles,Ca.Pp 1-7.Pp 8-305 & Closed Pp 306-539

ML20134Q012
Person / Time
Issue date:	02/12/1997
From:	Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards
To:
References
ACRS-T-2091, NUDOCS 9702260202
Download: ML20134Q012 (9)

Text

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OfficicI Trcnscript sf Prseccdings O NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

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Title:

Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards Thermal Hydraulic Phenomena Subcommittee l

Docket Number: (not applicable) j M/S T-2225  !

415 7139 DMKS I

Location: Los Angeles, California l O Date: wednesday, February 12,1997 AClS

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! 10:[^0 JTS 07 R s07MItee Work Order No.: NRC-1008 Pages 1-7 ClDSEN 3ESSIOW-fyS~N Nets : res. is,199'7-Closedpp.*5M i

1 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

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, g Washington, D.C. 20005 V (202) 234-4433 _ . . .. . ..._,,,,,,,,_..

9702260202 970212 -

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. 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

,c3 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I

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l 4 ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS S THERMAL HYDRAULIC PHENOMENA SUBCOMMITTEE l 6 + ++++ 1 I'

7 OPEN SESSION I

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9 WEDNESDAY l 10 FEBRUARY 12, 1997 l l

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12 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA I l

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! i V 14 The Subcommittee met in President's Room B of i l

15 the Double Tree Westwood Hotel, 10750 Wilshire Boulevard, 16 at 8:30 a.m., Ivan Catton, Chairman, presiding.

17 PRESENT:

18 IVAN CATTON Chairman 19 MARIO FONTANA Member 20 THOMAS S. KRESS Member 21 ROBERT L. SEALE Member 22 23 24

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NEAL R. GROSS JOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.

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. 1 ACRS STAFF PRESENT:

i n 2 PAUL BOEHNERT

\_] 3 4 ACRS CONSULTANT PRESENT:

5 VIRGIL SCHROCK 6

7 ALSO PRESENT:

8 GEORGE BANKOFF  ;

9 DAVID BESSETTE 10 MARINO DI MAZZO )

11 FAROUK ELTAWILA 12 JOE KELLY l

l 13 WAYNE HODGES f~~)

k/ 14 JIM WOLF 15 GARY JOHNSEN 16 PAUL BAYLEN 17 GENE PIPLICA 18 JOSE REYES 19 GARY WILSON 20 WOLFGANG WULFF "1

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l 23 24 pm

) 25 l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.

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,3, 2 (8:35 a.m.)

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3 CHAIRMAN CATTON: The meeting will now come to 4 order.

5 This is a meeting of the ACRS Subcommittee on 6 Thermal Hydraulic Phenomena.

7 I'm Ivan Catton, Chairman of the Subcommittee.

1 8 The ACRS members in attendance are Mario Fontana, Tom l l

9 Kress, Bob Seale. l l

l 10 The ACRS consultant in attendance is Virgil j 11 Schrock. Unfortunately Novak is ill, although I've talked i l

12 at length with him on the phone, and at his request.

13 Dr. George Bankoff is attending this meeting r8 i

U/ 14 as an observer for the NSRRC, the Nuclear Safety Research l 15 Review Committee. l l

16 The purpose of this meeting is for the l 17 Subcommittee to continue its review of the NRC RES program 18 for demonstrating the adequacy of the RELAPS/ MOD 3 code to 19 analyze the behavior of the Westinghouse AP600 passive 20 plant design.

21 The Subcommittee will gather information, 22 analyze relevant issues and facts, and formulate proposed l

l 23 positions and actions as appropriate for deliberation by 24 the full Committee.

) 25 Paul Boehnert is the cognizant ACRS staff NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.

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. 1 engineer for this meeting.  !

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,m 2 With the exception of this opening session and t i

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3 a brief closing session on Friday, February 14th, 1997, j 4 this meeting will be closed to the public to discuss 5 Westinghouse proprietary information.

6 A transcript of the meeting is being kept. It 7 is requested that the speaker first identify themselves l

8 and speak with sufficient clarity and volume so that they l 9 can be readily heard, 10 We have rece.4.ved no written comments or I i

11 requests for time to make oral statements from members of l i

12 the public.

13 This morning is the beginning of the end of a j

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C' 14 long interaction begun in about 1990. It began with a j l

i 15 series of reports produced by INEL that, in essence, said 16 that RELAP5 needed no change to predict the behavior of an  ;

i 17 AP600.

18 RELAP5 is the tool of choice for NRC thermal 1

19 hydraulic calculations. At least it is now, and as such, 20 needs to be as good as we can make it, given its inherent 21 weaknesses.

22 There are three parts of the process. First 23 is the PIRT, which is really the organization of 24 engineering judgment; second, the scaling to enable us to

() 25 design a facility or, as in this case, to argue that a

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NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.

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5 I given facility will give us what we need to evaluate 2 phenomena highlighted by the PIRT and represent a full-73

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3 scale facility; and the third is the facilities 4 themselves.

5 It is an interactive process, and as we all 6 know, we have interacted. It appears as if they have all 7 come together.

8 In preparation for this meeting, I have 9 focused myself on the scaling report by Banerjee & Company 10 and that of Wolfgang Wulff. Overall I think this meeting 11 will be a pleasant one. There are a few questions I would 12 appreciate help with, however.

13 Pirst, how was the decision made on phases of

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d 14 the transie

nt? Did both Banerjee and Wulff choose the 15 same? And is this critical?

16 I couldn't find a clear statement of what the 17 characteristic values of pressure, length, and time are in 18 the Banerjee report. Somewhere it would be helpful to the 19 reader if there were a discussion of the governing pi 20 groups. What are they? What do they stand for? Give us 21 some physical insight. What are the relationships to the 22 PIRT? In other words, what pi group is important to what 23 phenomena?

l 24 And lastly, there are distortions and then f3 V 25 there are distortions. It would be helpful if there were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.

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l 6 i some discussion. For example, I don't care about the SPES

[ 7-s 2 cold leg splitter plate if it only impacts long-term

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3 behavior. Just listing distortions is not enough. If it l

4 is important, it should be covered by another facility 5 and/or calculable with my available tools.

6 I think if these questions are addressed, and 7 they may already have been in the reports -- I just didn't 8 find them -- and the code evaluation is equally well done, 9 we'll be happy. Other than the long wait to get here, it 10 looks like a job well done. j 11 Before I turn it over to RES, I would like to ,

l 12 give my colleagues a chance to comment. Virgil?  !

13 MR. SCHROCK: Well, I have pretty much the

- 14 same impression of the Banerjee report that you had. I i l

15 found it a little -- certainly a lot clearer than anything ,

i 16 we've read on this from INEL in the past. The, I guess, i

17 questions remaining for me are those that you mentioned, l 1

18 and I would maybe put a little more emphasis on the fact 19 that there is still some lack of clarity in the choice of 20 reference scales in general. l 21 That discussion needs to be made more l 22 complete. Other than that, there seem to be a couple of 1

l i 23 places where things are left to be filled in at some 24 future date, and it's a little puzzling to me how that can

(,/ 25 still be the case in 1997, February 1997, on a topic that i

! NEAL R. GROSS l COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS l 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 1 was to have been wrapped up six or eight months ago.

2 CHAIRMAN CATTON: Thank you.

91 MR. SCHROCK: That's all I have.

3 4 CHAIRMAN CATTON: Well, I guess that's even 5 more unsettling when you consider that we started this in 6 1960.

7 Tom?

8 MR. KRESS: I think you pretty well covered 9 it, Ivan. I do share your assessment that this looks to 10 me like a job well done, and we are getting close to the 11 end.

12 CHAIRMAN CATTON: Mario?

13 MR. FONTANA: No comment.

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.%> 14 CHAIRMAN CATTON: Well --

15 DR. BANKOFF: I --

16 CHAIRMAN CATTON: George.

17 DR. BANKOFF: I'm afraid I have some pretty 18 serious questions, and I think it may stretch out longer 19 than you might think as a result.

20 CHAIRMAN CATTON: Thank you.

21 I'll now turn it over to Mr. Eltawila.

l 22 (Whereupon, at 8:46 a.m., the open session was 23 adjourned, to reconvene immediately in closed session.)

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O CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:

Name of Proceeding: ACRS SUBCOMMITTEE ON THERMAL  :

HYDRAULIC PHENOMENA (OPEN SESSION) F i

Docket Number: N/A  ;

i Place of Proceeding: LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA were held as herein appears, and that this is the original  !

transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to  !

typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accuratea record of the foregoing proceedings.

/ ANllA.-

NORBETT RINsR official Reporter Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.

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NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIDERS

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