ML20134P211

Transcript of 970220 Public Meeting in Rockville,Md Re Briefing on Eeo Program.Pp 1-60.Related Info Encl

ML20134P211
Person / Time
Issue date:	02/20/1997
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 9702250190
Download: ML20134P211 (63)

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9702250190 970220 PDR 10CFR

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,t DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of I

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the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on February 20, 1997 in the Commission's office at One 3l

j White Flint North, Rockville, Maryland.

The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.

This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.

The transcript is intended solely for general x

V;j informational purposes.

As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the j

matters discussed.

Expressions of opinion in thic o

transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs.

No pleading or other paper may be filed with the j

Commission in any proceeding as the result of, or addressed j

to, any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.

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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA r~3 2

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION j

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BRIEFING ON EEO PROGRAM 5

6 PUBLIC MEETING 7.

8

. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9

Commission. Hearing Room 10 11555 Rockville Pike

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i 11 Rockville, Maryland 12 13 Thursday, February 20, 1997 14 m

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15 The Commission met.in open session, pursuant to 16 notice, at 2:06 p.m., the Honorable SHIRLEY A. JACKSON,-

17 Chairman of the Commission, presiding.

18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:

19 SHIRLEY A. JACKSON, Chairman of the Commission-20 KENNETH C. ROGERS, Member of the Commission 21 GRETA J.

DICUS, Member of the Commission 22 EDWARD McGAFFIGAN, JR., Member of the Commission 23 NILS J. DIAZ, Member of the Commission 24 25

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2 1-STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT THE COMMISSION TABLE:

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JOHN C. HOYLE, Secretary of the Commission

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3 KAREN D.

CYR, General Counsel 4

ROXANNE SUMMERS, FWPAC & Managing Diversity 5

Subcommittee 6

LAWRENCE VICK, Performance Monitoring Subcommittee 7

IRENE LITTLE, SBCR 8

PATRICIA NORRY, DEDO 9

PAUL BIRD, OP 10 SUBINOY MAZUMDAR, Selection Subcommittee 11 SUDHAMAY BASU, APAAC 12 REGINALD MITCHELL, ACAA 13 JOSE IBARRA, HEPAC 14 JACOB PHILIP, AAAC' 15-MICHAEL WEBER, JLMEEOC

-16 SHARON CONNELLY, CAD 17 PETER BLOCH,' Managing Diversity Subcommittee 18 JAMES THOMAS, NTEU 19

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PROCEEDINGS 2

[2:06 p.m.]

1 3

CHAIRMAN JACKSON:

Well, good afternoon, ladies 4

and gentlemen.

Today, the Commission is meeting to discuss l

5 the status of NRC's Equal Employment Opportunity Program for i

6 fiscal year 1996.

7 The Energy Reorganization Act of 1974, as amended, 8

requires the executive director for Operations to report to 9

the Commission at semiannual public meetings on the status 10 of any problems and progress associated with EEO efforts.

11 The last EEO briefing was held on July 31, 1996.

12 Today's briefing will include highlights of the NRC's EEO 13 program, a report on the progress of the Performance 14 Monitoring, Selection, and Managing Diversity Subcommittees

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15

'of the EEO advisory committees, and a discussion of various 16

.EEO issues.

17 I welcome the presenters and all employees in the 18 audience.

Your attendance demonstrates your interest in and 19 commitment to the NRC EEO program.

In fact, I must say, 20 this is probably the best-attended Commission meeting from 21 an employee point of view.

So we are glad you are here.

22 Before the Staff begins its presentation, I would 23 like to share the following thoughts.

This is our first EEO j

24 briefing with cu new deputy executive director for 25 Management Services and our new director of the Office of

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1 Small Business and Civil Rights.

2 I understand that along with the Office of f{

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"'rsonnel, the/ are continuing the spirit of cooperative 4

dialogue with the advisory committees and subcommittees in 5

developing strategies for addressing EEO concerns at the 6

NRC.

7 As we face this period of government-wide 8

streamlining, performance orientation, and budget 9

constraints, we are then challenges to enhance 10 opportunities, nonetheless, for the development and 11 advancement of employees at all grade levels, regardless of 12

-race, gender, national origin, age or disability.

13 As we together step up to that challenge, I 14 commend the Staff, the EEO advisory committees, and their 15 subcommittees for their dedication, and I look forward to 16 hearing about the improvements the NRC is making in'the EEO 17 area so that all employees can demonstrate their unique 18 skills and talents in the fulfillment of the agency's 19 mission, and where we continue to have challenges, how we 20 are stepping up to meet those challenges.

21 If my fellow.Cemmissioners have no comments at 22-this point, Ms. Norry, please proceed.

23 MS. NORRY:

Thank you, Chairman Jackson, 24 Commissioner Rogers, Commissioner Diaz, Commissioner

'25 McGaffigan.

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Joining me for today's briefing on the status of (x:)

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the agency EEO program are Paul Bird, director of the. Office l

3 of Persc..nel, and Irene Little, director of the Office of l

4 Small Business and Civil Rights.

I 5

Ms. Little will now introduce to you the 5

'6 representatives of the EEO advisory committees who are with i

7 us today.

8 MS. LITTLE:

Thank.you, Ms. Norry.

9 To my far left, we have Roxanne Summers, chair of i

10 the Federal Women's Program Advisory Committee and 11 representing the Diversity Subcommittee.

12 To my immediate left is Mr. Lawrence Vick, 13 representing the Performance Monitoring Subcommittee.

14 To Mr. Bird's right is Mr. Subinoy Mazumdar,

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15 represending the' Selection Subcommittee.

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16 These three representatives will be making l

17 statements later in the briefing.

18.

I will also.intenduce the committee' reps that are 19 in the front row, and I would ask that each of you would 20 please stand as your name is called.

l 21 From my left, Mr. Sudhamay Basu, chairperson of 22 the Asian-Pacific-American Advisory Subcommittee; Mr.

i 23 Reginald Mitchell, chairperson of the Advisory Committee for 24 African-Americans; Mr. Jose Ibarra, chair of the Hispanic 25 Employment Program Advisory Committee; Mr. Jacob Philip, I

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chair, Affirmative Action Advisory Committee; Mr. Michael 2

Weber, chair, Joint Labor-Management EEO Committee; Ms.

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3 Sharon Connelly, chair, Committee on Age Discrimination; and 4

Mr. Peter Block, representing the Subcommittee on Diversity.

5 These committee representatives are available to answer any 6

questions you have regarding their initiatives.

7 We also have in attendance today Mr. James Thomas, 8-president of the National Treasury Employees Union.

9 This concludes my introduction.

Thank you, Ms.

I 10 Norry.

11 MS. NORRY:

Thank you, Irene.

l 12 We are here to present the semiannual report on 1

13 the status of equal employment opportunity in the agency.

f 14 Over the next several months, we plan to conduct a review of 15' the agency's EEO program and, where appropriate, form new 16 strategies for developing opportunities for our employees.

17 Following the last Commission briefing _on the EEO i

18 program, the-Staff was asked to keep the Commission informed 19 about seven specific items.

I would like now to take a 20 minute to address the status of each of those specific

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21 items.

22 The first two were closely related:

to establish 23 a more structured procedure to provide feedback to 24 nonselected candidates in personnel selections, and provide 25 personnel specialists and cupervisors with training that

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will assist them in counseling nonselected candidates on

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2 broadening their skills and knowledge so that they may have 3

their potential for future positions enhanced.

4 In response to this request, the Office of f

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Personnel has designed a two-day training course for 6

supervisors and personnel specialists entitled Effective j

7 Management Participation in Merit Staffing.

This course 8

provides a more proactive structured procedure for providing 9

feedback to nonselectees.

When this course has been 10 completed, participants should have clear understanding of 11 their role and responsibilities in providing constructive 12 feedback to job applicants regarding the ratings they 13 received and how one might improve in those ratings.

14 We have given the first pilot session of this 1

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sg) 15 course in January and got some good feedback which caused 16 the-course to be modified.

It has been offered again in 17' February, and March, it will be given again.

Then, i

18 thereafter, it will be on a monthly schedule.

19 After the March session, we will be ready to 20 formalize this feedback process, and the day this is 21 basically going to work is that Personnel will continue the l

22 staged notifications to nonselected applicants that they do 23 now, and at the same time, they are going to notify 24 applicants of the availability of information regarding 25 their scores, the selectees' scores, and most importantly in f

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'respe7t to this initiative, the opportunity for discussion 2

with t he personnel specialist, with the rating panel chair 3

and/or with the selecting official.

This discussion will 4

_ cover specific rating factors, rating criteria, the 5

applicant's application package, and constructive feedback 6

on how to develop one's self into being more competitive for 7

the kinds of the positions that a person'may be interested 8

in.

9 We are very hopeful that this will address the 10 concern about additional feedback being needed for people 11

'who are not successful candidates.

12 The third item asks that the Office of Small 13 Business and Civil Rights should formally participate on the 14 Executive Resources Board Review Group.

That has been done.

m g{y) 15 The director of.SBCR is now a member of that group.

16 The next item requested that the Staff adopt 17 additional measures to enhance the effectiveness of the 18 Office of Small Business and Civil Rights, and as we 19 reported in our memorandum of October 2, 1996, we committed 20 that this would be a first item of discussion with the new 21 director of SBCR.

That has been done, and Ms. Little will 22 have a statement on her thoughts on that point.

23 The next item was to provide an opportunity for 24 advisory committees to work with the Office of Personnel and 25 with Small Business and Civil Rights to ensure that any new

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database systems would have pertinent statistical

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2 information for their future tracking needs, and what we 3

intend to do is, as part of our development of our human 4

resources information system, we are pursuing the 5

acquisition of some commercial off-the-shelf software that 6

will complement our payroll personnel system.

7 Since the EEO advisory committees are major 8

stakeholders in this information system, we will ask them to 9

select a representative for the project team that will be 10 identifying and procuring the software.

11 Item 6 asks that we provide information on the 12 number of women, minority, and total employees currently 13 certified as SES candidates or in the feeder groups for SES 14 or SLS positions.

15 There are 17 NRC employees currently certified as 16 SES candidates.

This includes 12 graduates of the most 17 recent candidate development program, four graduates of 18 earlier candidate programs, and one from the Department of 19 Energy's candidate program.

Among these 17 are two Asian 20 males, two white females, one African-American female, and 21 one African-American male.

22 For the feeder groups, we now have a total of 23 2,007 employees in the Grade 13 to 15 feeder groups.

l 24 Ninety-seven of these are minority women, 24 1

25 Asian-Pacific-Americans, 18 Hispanics, 65 African-Americans.

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We failed to mention in the text of this reply that there

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2 are 76 African-American men, 137 Asian men, 22 Hispanic men, 3

and 3 N--ive American men.

4 The final item requests that we provide 5

information on methods that could be used to enhance 6

advancement opportunities for minority women who wish to 7

move into SES/SLS programs.

Of course, the avenues that are 9

available to all employees include obtaining the relevant 9

education and training and being given the opportunity to 10 participate in a wide variety of rotational and other 11 opportunities that will put them in a position to be 12 recognized and to be noticed.

13 We are pursuing some specific methods to help in 14 this initiative, including Office oif Small Business and

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15 Civil Rights interviewing all Grade 14/15 minority women, to 16 discuss their career goals, to review the current status of 17 the IDP, and to develop an action plan, to help them to 18 develop an action plan, and that office also, along with 19 Personnel, will be canvassing offices in regions for 20 rotational opportunities that might be available.

21 We will be actively recruiting minority women for 22 FEI and other development programs, and we will be promoting 23 the consideration of minority women for so-called 24 high-exposure assignments, so that they will have an 25 opportunity to exercise their abilities in ways that might ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.

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be observed.

2 Of course, managers and supervisors should, as 3

appropriate, encourage employees to be proactive in seeking 4

out training opportunities and rotational assignments, and 5

we will continue to publicize these opportunities.

6 This concludes our response to the seven SRM i

7 actions.

8 Finally, I would like to say that we are 9

encouraged by the spirit of cooperation among the EEO 10 advisory committees, the Office of Personnel, and the office 11 of Small Business and Civil Rights.

We will continue our 12 efforts to foster teamwork and to analyze and cooperatively 13 resolve all the EEO areas of concern.

14 Our accomplishments so far may be modest, but they N.

(3) 15 reflect, I believe, a continuing improvement and this new 16 spirit of cooperation that we referred to.

17 Now, at this time, I would like to ask Irene 18 Little to provide some additional comments regarding the 19 program.

Irene?

20 MS. LITTLE:

Thank you, Ms. Norry.

21 Chairman Jackson, Commissioner Rogers, 22 Commissioner Diaz, Commissioner McGaffigan, I am halfway 23 through my second month as director of the Office of Small l

24 Business and Civil Rights, and I am very pleased to 25 participate in my first briefing on the status of the EEO P

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. program.

Of course, I didn't plan it this way, but it is Oi.

2 nice to.be here to participate.

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I have spent a good part of my time so far meeting 4

with several parties, representatives of all of the advisory 5

committees, with the chairperson of the Joint 6

Labor-Management EEO Committee.

My goal was to meet with 7

each office director before this briefing.

I fdll short of 8

that by two office directors, but my plan is to continue 9

that, and to further build on the cooperative spirit and 10 efforts that the advisory committees, the Office of 11 Personnel, and the Small Business and Civil Rights Office 12 have started.so far.

13 Following the EEO Commission briefing in July 14 1996, the Staff was asked to keep the Commission inf6rmed l

)

15 about several aspects of the EEO program, including ways to 16

= enhance the effectiveness of the Office of Small Business 17 and Civil Rights.

18 My assessment of the program, though not complete, 19 is well underway, and I have identified some initial focus 20 areas for my early activities.

I plan to continue this 21 cooperative effort that has already be'en started by the-22 advisory committees, in conjunction with my office and the 23 Office of Personnel.

24 I will also continue to work with the Office of 25 Personnel and the advisory committees to improve and l

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1 simplify the presentation of data at the EEO briefings and

( 2 data that is used for analysis of issues bi the adrisor' 4._ 3 committees and the subcommittees. l 4 I plan to work with the committees and NTEU, { as 5 appropriate, to support an informal forum to share 6 information with employees about programs designed to 7 facilitate equal opportunity within the NRC. 8 The paper for this briefing references six areas 7 9 of emphasis that the Staff has focused on for the past 10 several years. By our own assessment, we have made varying 11 degrees of process in these areas. One area of special 12 interest to me is improving communication, heightening 13 awareness, and evaluating program progress. 14 I believe that the critical challenge in this area ) 15 is always before us. Ongoing effective communication at all 16 levels of the organization is critical to the success.of any 17 program. The EEO program in the NRC is no exception. We 18 must continuously work together to improve communications. 19 The various committees are making contributions to 20 this effort in several ways. The Joint Labor-Management EEO 21 Committee is teaming up with the Office of Personnel to 22 heighten awareness of sexual harassment prevention, a 23 specific effort to highlight the importance of maintaining 24 our workplace free of sexual harassment. I 25 The Joint Labor-Management EEO Committee is also 5 ' T ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Nil Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 v l-1

p *. t 14 i 1 seeking'out ways to encourage employees to take advantage cf i "'\\. 2 the extensive suite of courses offered by the agency to ~ .) 3 enhance : communication skills,. I would like to extend this l 4 effort to all supervisors as well. l 5 The initiative by the six advisory committees to 6 team up and focus their efforts on three broad issues of 7' general concern.to many employees is another effort to 4 8 communicate effectively. i 9 A third example is the initiative by the Office of' 10 Personnel to assist supervisors and panel members in s 11 providing. responsive feedback to employees who compete under 12 the merit selection process, but are not selected for a 13 specific position. 14 My plan is to work with these ongoing initiatives, l )- 16 to provide leadership in modifying our current-focus areas,, i 16 and formulate new areas, as appropriate, to work with l 17 supervisors and managers to.make sure that our recruitment i I 18 and promotion policies and practices are not creating 19 barriers to equal employment opportunity, and to ensure that 20 management approaches to provide a supportive working 21 environment to facilitate a level playing field for all NRC 22 employees and applicants, and finally, to monitor and 23 evaluate program results. 24 I look forward to a positive and productive 25 experience in the coming years. This is the end of my 3 s i l 6 i[ ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 l (202) 842-0034 F

y s;- 15 l 1 presentation. ) 2 The three subcommittee reps will now each make a l 3 fr esentation. We will start with Ms. Summers, followed by 4 Mr. Vick, and finally, Mr. Mazumbar. 5 Roxanne? 6 MS. SUMMERS: Thank you, Irene. t 7 Chairman Jackson, Commissioners, thank you very 8 much-for the opportunity to speak with you today. 4 9 The Managing Diversity Subcommittee was created 10 out of the perception and belief that the agency is 11 changing. I think, as Chairman Jackson mentioned, there are 12 a number of ways in which this is changing. For example, 13 our resources are shrinking, but our work has'not 14 diminished. I think the tasks that we are called for, j are Q(,j i 15 ' called to face, are still continuing to change. Some of 16 them are different from those tasks thaU we had a few years 17 ago, and the regulatory challenges also may continue to l 18 change. Therefore, I think the skills that the work force 19 have will need to change as well. The skills we have today l 20 will be different in the coming years. 21 I think this presents us with both an opportunity 22 and a challenge. It is a challenge to be able to predict i L 23 the need for those skills in the future accurately and, I l 24 guess, in time so that we could provide the courses that are 25 necessary in a timely fashion. At the same time, I think it I t '~ l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. ! N-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

1' ' ', - l ^ 16 1 will provide an opportunity for us to motivate employees to r~s

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2 put forth the effort and the enthusiasm to actually acquire 3 thode skills that we will be needing. 4 So, as a Management Diversity Committee, we feel 5 that our managers will be required to display exceptional i 6 managerial talent in the coming years. I think, also, the 7 Commission has recognized this, for example, in the response 8 to the strategic planning options for the decision issue, 19 9 or 23, I guess, enhancing regulatory effectiveness. The 10 Commission called for measures to engage the work force at i 11 the grass roots level and to stimulate management and i 12 employee communications and problem-solving. 13 I am going to make a sort of leap here, but we 14 think that to engage the work force requires managing ) 15 diversity, which we have defined to mean that each employee 16 must be motivated and encouraged to contribute to his or her 17 maximum potential without regard to the list of things that 18 Chairman Jackson mentioned, including ethnicity, age, 19 gender, background., et cetera. 20 I think the words " encouraging each employee to 21 reach his or her maximum potential" are very important 22 words, and we wanted to emphasize that by saying we think i 23 this means that employees would come to work challenged and i 24 prepared to be challenged rather than, perhaps, expecting to 25 be held back or under-utilized in their jobs. / ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e

i. 17 1 I think if are going to engage our work force', cur ( )- 2 managers must be chosen and promoted based on their 3 managerial skills. I think that is very important. They 4 must be able to motivate their staff and communicate a 5 genuine interest in the career potential of their employees. l 6 We think they must be required not only to provide 7 the opportunities, some of these that Ms. Norry and Ms. 8 Little have mentioned already, opportunities to develop by 9 varying work assignments and by encouraging rotations, but 10 we'must also motivate the Staff to seize those 11 opportunities. It can't just a pro forma effort. 12 We know that new skills can be learned. We have 13 an intern program, and for example, training courses and 14 probabalistic risk assessment that show that we can teach h) 15 new skills when they are needed. 16 In its research to date, the subcommittee has 17 learned one very important lesson, and that is it is no easy 18 matter to manage diversity, to adapt well to a work force 19 where the managers and the employees do not all come from a 20 similar background. There is no question that that is a 21 difficult task, and it will be particularly difficult for an j 22 agency like the NRC to place more importance on the 23 managerial skills than on the technical skills of its L 24 executives. 25 I think it will require just the decision to do ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 v

1 3- ,? 18 1 this, but a real determination to carry this out. Yet, it / 2 is a decision that is a business decision, really, that must 3 be made. We cannot excel as an agency if our employees are 4 not encouraged to reach their maximum potential. There are 5 no extra people on our payroll. 6 We think every person is a valuable resource in 7 achieving the agency's goals of regulatory excellence, and 8 in addition, we feel that people who feel valued do better 9 work and feel better about working. Members of the 10 subcommittee have, as one of their activities, read this 11 book, which I highly recommend to those who are interested 12 in the challenge presented by Managing Diversity. I am sure 13 that Barbara Williams can obtain a copy, or I will even give 14 you mine, but it really shows you that this is not an easy q-15 task, and to do what we have to do, it will require a lot of 16 effort. 17 When we have completed our research, in addition 18 to this book we are looking at what other agencies are doing 19 and trying to come up with a list of recommendations which 20 we will present at a subsequent briefing, but those will 21 only be recommendations. This decision, this determination 22 to change, can only be made at the highest levels of the 23 agency, and it must be communicated forcefully to all 24 managers and all employees. We can only hope to achieve the 25 goal of regulatory excellence if we pursue managing ~ ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. N/ Court Reporters 1250 I Screet, N.W., Suite 300 i Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

'? ~ s f. 19 l' diversity together. ((3. 2 Thank you. 3 COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Okay. 5 MS. SUMMERS: Larry?' 6 MR. VICK: Thank you, Chairman-Jackson, 7 Commissioners, for the opportunity to speak to you on the 8 issues being addressed by the Performance Monitoring 9 Subcommittee. 10 As you review and consider the agency's EEO 11 program, we.Lelieve that the important thing is not where we 12 were or where we are, but where we want to go. 13 Our subcommittee is tasked to address five 14 specific issues raised by the EEO advisory committees. Our ) 15 . primary goal is to assist mr.nagement in monitoring and 16 evaluating affirmative action initiatives, support strategic 4 17 planning, encourage stronger management accountability 18 systems into the EEO area, examine ways to enhance 19 representation of women and minorities in supervisory and l 20 managerial positions, and lastly, examine root causes of 21 discrimination complaints. 22 We are happy to report that. meaningful progress l 23 has occurred to date. The subcommittee has held six month l 24 meetings since being informed in July of 1996. The 25 subcommittee began its work by obtaining a focused

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'5 ' s 1 20 1 understanding of the terms, " affirmative action," " equal $7d 2 employment opportunity," and " initiatives." ,s 3 'We then identified agency programs associated with 4 these terms, with the ultimate goal to determine the 5 effectiveness of each. 6 Thirty-four programs or initiatives that support 7 EEO and affirmative action initiatives have been identified 8 by this subcommittee for monitoring and evaluation. The 9 initiatives cover a wide range of developmental areas in the 10 administrative, technical, professional, clerical fields for 11 both st'.pervisor and nonsupervisory staf f members. 12 SPCR and OP are currently collecting specific data ) 13 associated'with each. The data will include the number of i 14 participants, demographics, how the program is evaluated, (f 15 and an overall recommendation regarding the effectiveness of 16 each. 17-Data analysis is expected'to be completed during 18 FY '97. The resolution of these issues will aid all 19 employees to be knowledgeable of the ways and means to 20 achieve the objectives of inclusion and equal opportunity. 21 The data analysis of these initiatives will also provide the \\ 22' basis for work on the issues of increased representation of i 23 women and minorities. 24 The subcommittee is working with'SBCR to close the 25 issue on examination and report on specific concerns of EEO ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. ki Court Reporters 1250 I Street,-N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

l 'E 9. 7 21 commi5teesandtheirrootcauses, and this will be done when 1 ,( ) 2 the SBCR summary report is presented at the next briefing' 3 Because of the need for confidentiatity, the 4 actions taken by the agency to prevent reoccurrence of 5 similar EEO complaints remain to be addressed. The 6 subcommittee plans to work toward resolution on the issues 7 of strategic planning and management accountability in the 8 second quarter of this year. .s 9 To summarize, the subcommittee recommends that a 10 better understanding of the terms and concepts associated 11 with EEO affirmative action initiatives be routinely 12 communicated and that a periodic review of the objectives in l 13 management directives, 10.61 NRC Equal Employment t 14 Opportunity Program, be undertaken by all. employees, ). 15 especially those with management responsibilities. 16 The ultimate goal is to ensure that all employees 17 can_ share in the benefits derived.from equal employment 18 opportunity. I i 19 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Repeat what you just said. 1 20 MR. VICK: The ultimate goal -- 21 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: No, the one before. 22 MR. VICK: Okay. To summarize, the subcommittee 23 recommends that a better understanding of the terms and 24 concepts associated with EEO affirmative action initiatives 25 be routinely communicated and that a periodic review of the i ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\~ Court Reporters I' 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e

1 5' t 22 1 objectives in management directives, 10.61, titled NRC Equal ~ ) 2 Employment Opportunity Program, be undertaken by all f 3 employees, especially those with management 4 responsibilities. 5 In conclusion, the EEO advisory committees 6 appreciate the attention the Commission ha7 given to our 7 concerns as we strive to bring about beneficial changes at 8 the workplace. 9' Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Thank you. 11 MR. MAZUMDAR: Chairman Jackson? l 12 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Could you pull the microphone 13 more closer? l 14 MR. MAZUMDAR: Chairman Jackson, Commissioners 15 Rogers, Diaz, and McGaffigan, it is my pleasure today to 16 present the progress made by the Selection Subcommittee in 17 the last six months. 18 We have experienced that many at the NRC, 19 especially those with the experience in other Federal 20 organizations, believe that compared to other Federal 21 agencies, NRC is a'moch better managed organization, 22 especially in the selectica and promotion policies. 23 However, we have also experienced that many NRC 24 employees believe that in the past, some managers have 25 unfairly preselected employees in the merit selection i ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. 'a Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

-. - -.. ~ t 23 1 process. This is not only unfair. It adverself affects the f) 2 Staff morale. 3 The perception of preselection is so strong that o 4 when the EEO advisory committees were asked to prioritize 5 their.EEO concerns, preselection was identified as one of 6 the three more important issues, and in September 1996, the 7 Selection Subcommittee was formed to study the employees' o 8 concerns. 9 The word " preselection" is not in the Webster's 10 Dictionary. However, most people at NRC have a pretty good 11 idea what preselection is. To carry out its mission, the 12 subcommittee has defined " preselection" as a selection that 13 is predetermined and not based on a fair and equitable 14 asse9sment of each candidate's qualification, experience, 15 and capability. 16 The perception of preselection applies to 17 positions that are advertised through the merit selection 18 process, as well as participation in special programs and 19 performance-awards. 20 This subcommittee has 20 participants from 21 dif ferent EEO adviso; committees, Office of Personnel, and 22 Office of Small Busines. :1d Civil Rights. The subcommittee 23 has formed several working groups, each consisting of four 24 to five members who study specific issues in depth and 25 report their finding at the monthly subcommittee meetings.

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ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters l 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

j 24 1 1 Thus far, this subcommittee has four monthly i [~) 2 meetings and has decided to pursue the following five action 3 items: action item one, develop criteria for examining and 4 identifying possible evidence of presentation; action item 5 two, review NRC policies, procedures, and practices related 6 to the vacancy announcements, selection process, training, 7 awards and other benefits; action item three, determine of 8 there is a reasonable basis for the perception of 9 preselection practices; action item four, learn from other 10 agencies on measures taken to minimize preselection; and 11 finally, present a report on the subcommittee's findings. 12 The subcommittee is aware that it has a difficult 13 task ahead, but we believe that with support from NRC 14 management, Office of Personnel, and Office of Small A f(. ) 15 Business Development and Civil Rights, we will be able to 16 present significant information on the perception of 17 preselection that has demoralized many NRC employees. 18 I also take this opportunity to tell all those who 19 have helped us to carry out our missions. 20 That is the end of my statement. 21 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Thank you. 22 Let me ask you a couple of questions. First of 23 all, do you anticipate ana have you gotten a commitment from 24 the Office of Personnel and SBCR that they will work with 25 you so, that in the next briefing, we won't be talking about ~ ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. N/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

.~. -.- -. - -l 25 1 preselection as a perception, but we can actually have some O: 2 sense of what the situation really is? ,1. m). 3 I say that because I know that that has been a. 4 concern for some time, and each time -- and I've been here 5 now -- this must be at least my fifth such briefing, and 6~ there is always discussion of perception, and I think it is 7 important that the Commission finally have some data so that 8 we can have a real perception of what the situation is. 9 So I am, therefore, asking Mr. Bird and Ms. Little 10 and, by implication, Ms. Norry, have you given Mr. Mazumdar 11 your commitment that you are going to be working with this 12 committee so that we can really have some concrete data to 13. look at the next time the Commission is briefed or before? 14 MR. BIRD: I believe, and I know some of my staff 15 here have been working hand and hand with that committee, 16 and Irene's staff, also. I don't know that we have reached 17 a point whe're we have hard specific data examples of where 18 this has occurred. Certainly, the perception.of 19 preselection is an age-old perception. I think that is the 20 goal, to eliminate the wrong as parts of preselection 21 altogether, if we can do that. 22~ The process we have in merit selection certainly l l 23 intended to do that, and there are means of trying to 24 address that through looking at how things have worked in 25 that process. l. 1 I ~' ? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. l Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 F

... ~ ~.... ,i" 26 1 I think in terms of getting specific examples, () 2 Lthat is something that we would have to work with.the Office 3 of Civ'l Rights to develop in specific cases or instances 4 .where we believe this is true. 5 Certainly, I think things are moving in that 6 direction. I know there has been a lot of effort, but with 7. the committee's support to try to get at this issue. 8 CRAIRMAN JACKSON: Have you decided what questions 9 need to be ask to tyr to get at the issue? 10 MR. MAZUMDAR: So far, we have gotten good 11 response from the Office of Personnel and SBCR, but we 12 haven't progressed enough to ask some of the critical [ 13 questions, where we can establish whether there is 14 preselection or not. 15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Have you decided what those 16 questions are? 17 MR. MAZUMDAR: We are looking into it. We haven't 18 developed the final questions yet, no. 19 MS. LITTLE: Yes. Dr. Jackson, I was in i 20 attendance at the last subcommittee meeting, and yes, the 21 Subcommittee on Preselection certainly has our commitment to 22 work with them. 23 I think that we talked a little bit about the 24 focus being on what we can do to eliminate that perception 25 in the future. It is very difficult to get at that data in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. U-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

__m . _ _ _.. _. ~ _ _ u 27 1 the past because some of it is perception and some of it may () 2 very well be real, but since we don't maintain any data 3 specifically addressing that, our focus, as we talked in the i 4 last subcommittee meeting, was to look at ways that we can 5 present this kind of thing from happening in the future. 6 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: But you don't know what you are 7 presenting if you don't know what exists. i 8 MS. NORRY: You are saying the first thing we have 9' to do is define the problem and address the questions. 1 10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Correct, right. i 11 MS. NORRY: So we will work with the subcommittee 12 to do that. I 13 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Okay. Commissioner McGaffigan? 14 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I know a little bit 15. about preselection because I once was on that side of the 16 table. I know how it is done in the Pentagon. i 1 i 17 [ Laughter.) l 18 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I would suggest you look l 19 for things like unusual announcements that have unusual 20. conditions in them that maybe -- I never was in the l 21 Pentagon, but I know people who went from the Hill to the l 22 Pentagon, and I think they were effectively preselected for 23 what were open positions by gearing it toward the particular 24 skills that that person had. l 25 So I think if I were in your committee, I would be l i i 1 2 } (f%.} ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 3 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 '(202) 842-0034 l l

l .,~ \\ 28 1 looking for that sort of thing, announcements that happen to I) 2 have unusual -- 3 ~ CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Qualifications. 4 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: -- qualifications in 5 them. 6 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Right, right. It is called 7 pick the person and then write the job description. 8 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Right, right. 9 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Let me ask you a few questions. 10 If we look at Table 1.1 on page 1.5 of your report, the 11 table indicates that there has been marginal progress in 12 hiring professional minorities, but the professional 13 minority women, as well as Native Americans, still lag 14 behind all other groups. .m t I3,,) 15 What kinds of efforts, particularly in the 16 recruitment area, are being planned or taken to improve in 17 these areas? We realize there is an issue of who is in the 18 market and how geography plays into that, and that may have l 19 some impact on certain groups, but if you look across the 20 spectrum of various minority groups and you look at 21 professional minority women, it would seem that in this 22 particular area that there is some mitigation of the 23 geographic effect. So I am interested in what it is that 24 you have either planned or have already undertaken to do 25 something about that. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\M Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

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29 l 1 MR. BIRD: Well,-certainly, from a recruitment {} i 2 standpoint,'the majority of our recruitment budget is now j i 3 focused on this issue and is particularly focused on 4 professional staff recruitment. 5 We have a rather ambitious schedule for going to i 6 specific schools that are representative of the groups that 7 we believe could be improved, and I have a recruitment 8 schedule. I won't go through that item for item, but 9 certainly, there are some areas of the country and some 10 particular schools that have populations that are well 11 suited to enhance our populations in these areas. i <1 12 We get, for example, from the Oak Ridge Institute of Science and Technology a breakdown that they update for-1 13 14 us from year to year of where minorities and wome'n are' () 15 specifically enrolled. We do try to focus on these schools 16 and keep current on where to go to find the right people, i 17 the right candidates to fill these jobs. So I think from i 18 the recruitment standpoint, that focus is there. 19 Certainly, more recently, as we have been 20 downsizing, the opportunities for intake here have been '21 less. That may change, of course, if some of the DOE 1 22 regulatory work comes our way and we are back in more of an 23 expansive recruitment mode. I think some of the payoff from 24 these sources will show up in these data tables. 25 In our inventory, our applicant's supply file, I a Mb. i ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. l\\ / Court Reporters 1250 I St!;eet, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e'

1 30 1 think, again, there is some good candidates. However, the IIh 2 candidates that are in that supply file may not find their J 3 way to specific jobs that we have currently. Again, the 4 lack of opportunities here is fairly significant over the 5 past three or four years. 6 We are certainly focussing on this internally as 7 well in developmental opportunities. I think to some 8 extent, there are already people in the agency who have the 9 potential to move in the professional categories. Some are 10 undertaking advanced education, and we should continue to 11 support that as well, but from a recruitment standpoint, I 12 think we know where to go to look. 13 One thing that came up in the past couple of weeks 14 was a Native American recruitment. I know we have gone back 15 to refocus our efforts there to make sure that we are 16 setting to the right schools that have these populations and 17 that we put ourselves in the position to be able to compete 18 favorable. 19 In many cases, minority candidates get multiple 20 job offers. We feel we have, to some extent, have been 21 competitive. Our accepted service status allows us to be 22 somewhat competitive, but there is always room for 23 improvement, and I hope that we can continue that focus and 24 continue to have a recruitment budget that permits us to do 25 that. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

'N 31 1 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: If we look at Table 1.5 on page '( ) 2 110, it'seems to suggest in fact, that is what the 3 statistics strongly suggest that minorities have not 4 fared well in joining the ranks of the SLS. 5 The two questions that actually come to my mind 6 are have minorities been applying and what steps are being 7 done -- there are actually three questions -- to prepare 8 individuals for it, and if you take away the Commission 9 offices, what would the numbers look like. 10 MR. BIRD: Well, you know, again, the Commission 11 has done very well in this regard. This particular-12 . Commission, I think, has been exceptional in that effort of 13 trying to focus on minority women candidates and bring them 14 into -- 15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Well, just minorities in l 16 general, if you look at it. I think I count up five. 17 MR. BIRD: Right. 18 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: So, if you took away the 19 Commission offices, what would the numbers be? 20 MR. BIRD: Well, it has gone up since this chart 21 because this was last fiscal year -- 22 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:

Okay, 23 MR. BIRD:

but the number is now eight, but 24 six, if you -- I think if I did my math right. There is one 25 additional that is not a Commission office staffperson that i s() ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters j 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 l Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e )

c I o-s !~ 32 i l 1 is in the SLS, an additional woman'who is in the SL ranks l l ) 2. now. 3 So, again, there has been some progtess there. 4. There has been one additional woman. The numbers, 5-currently, would be, in column 1, under women, 8, and the 6 ~ other' numbers, the end number' total would be 41, and that 7 is,'again, the difference between the last fiscal. year and a where we are today. 9 Again, the majority of those have been, as we '10 'know, Commissioner selections.

11.

CHAIRMAN JACKSON: So, in our regular professional 12 ranks, we have essentially zero. Is that what you are 13 saying? 14 MR. BIRD: Yes. ,15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: So what is.the-story? 16 MR. BIRD: Well, you know, I don't know what.to 17 exactly say. 18 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Should I not ask you, but have 19 the office directors here -- 20' MR. BIRD: Well, certainly, the office directors al are the ones that make the selection, and I think there have 22 'been candidates that have been in competition for those 23 jobs, minority candidates. '24 There is a review group that Pat has chaired that 25 looks at those selections, particularly with regard to this I 1' l l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 j; (202) 842-0034

t ,e t 33 issue, band I think that committee has made some suggestions 1 2 to specific managers, and perhaps, Pat, you would like to 3 comment on that. 4 MS. NORRY: Yes. We have had, perhaps, not as l 5 many as in the SES, but there have been cases that my group 6 looked at where there were candidates who we judged to be 7 highly qualified, and ultimately, then, someone else was 8 selected. That does happen, but I think the candidate pool, { 9 though, has not been as large as perhaps we would have 10 liked. So I think it is a two-pronged thing. We have to l l 11 get more people in the candidate' pool for these jobs and 12 also do a better job of looking at them once they are in-13 there. 14 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: I think that perhaps in the 15 next Commission briefing in this area, we will have two 16 panels, one, the group of you who are here, and the other, a 1 17 group of office managers, of. office directors, to have them 18 talk with the Commission relative to the same issues that we 4 l 19 . talked with you about because it's a hand-in-glove 20 ' situation. The real hiring is going on in those offices, i 21 and that is where we need to understand where the logjam 22 seems to be, and I think the only reasonable way-to get at 23 it is to chat with some of those office directors, but let 24 me ask you a couple of questions. 25 The SECY paper indicates that the supervisory ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\- Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

i e 34 1 development program and the SES candidate development [~) 2 program will be offered again when there is a demonstrated \\_- 3 need to prepare additional employees for supervisory and SES 4 positions. 5 In light of the mandated downsizing and the 6 supervisor reductions, do you have any projection of when l 7 there might be such a demonstrated need? And how often have 8 these programs been offered in the past? l 9 MR. BIRD: Yes. The SES candidate development 10 program has been offered three times, one time recently. In 11 the recent instance, there were 23 graduates of that 12 program. Of the 23 in fiscal '96, seven were selected out 13 of the program and are now in SES jobs. 14 I might g6 on to say that four have been selected, l R (;) 15 some by the Commissioners to go to senior-level positions. 16 Now, that is not SES. So don't let me confuse you because I 17 am adding and subtracting here simultaneously. 18 Since the end of the fiscal year, there has been j 19 one additional candidate selected for an SL position, 20 another selected for an SES position. That would mean if 21 you could both SES and SL here, there would be 10 left in 22 the candidate pool. However, since five of those are in 23 senior level positions and not SES position, I think they 24 would have to be considered still candidates for SES jobs. 25 So right now, of the 23, I would consider that J ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

k 35 1 there are 15 that would need to be placed. Our rule of O 2 thumb when we started that program was that when we hit a 3 level of about 50 percent that we would reexamine, one, how long it has taken since we ran the program, which was '94, 4 5 how long did it take to get to the halfway point, and then, 6 if you could extrapolate from that or decide that it might 7 take about the same amount of time to deplete it, we would 8 start another program when we were down to about a third of 9 those candidates left. 10 We are moving in that direction and certainly need 11 to begin to be thinking about starting that program again. 12 As you will recall, it is a one-year-long program. So, if 13 you want to have people trained and ready, you have to start 14 in advance of that year, or you would have a shortfall. qj 15 But at this time, we are at a stage where it is 16 time to begin looking at that and consider whether or not we 17 want to start another round of that. 18 With the supervisory development program, there 19 were 27 selected, and actually, this past program, which is 20 a two-year training program, there were 27 selected. Out of 21 the 27, seven have become new supervisors. Now, of course, 22 that is in an environment where we have been reducing the 23 number of supervisors, trying to reduce that number as the 24 agency is drawing down in an equivalent percentage fashion. 25 That would mean that 20 of.those candidates left. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 r l

4[ 36 1 However, in fiscal '97, one of those candidates has been ) U 2 tejacted for a senior-level position, but again, I would 3 continue to have that person in the count. 4 So I think we are a little farther away, there, 5 considering starting another program that we are with the 6 candidate development program, but the whole idea is that 7 when we reach a point where we think it is time to redraw I 8 and restart those programs, we would certainly recommend 9 doing that. 10 I think these are excellent. Both of these 11 programs have been an excellent preparation for people that 12 have gone into these jobs, even including the SES training 13 for those that have gone into SL positions. 14 Is that responsive? (q _/ 15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Well, I think we need to on a 16 more systematic basis understand how and when these 17 development programs are offered and expect to be offered 18 relative to our work force needs. Since we are coming out 19 of a strategic assessment, we are looking forward to doing a 20 multiyear plan, so that we can understand where the need is, 21 to give some particular emphasis. 22 Let me ask you a few more questions. If we look 23 at Chart 2.1, the numbers are small, but there does seem to 24 have been a slight decrease in the number of Hispanic males 25 as well as African-American females in the professional ) ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

.R 37 1 career fields, with the streamlining. I]) 2 Are Hispanic males and African-American females a 3 particularly in positions where we expect.nat they n.ay be 4 more. vulnerable to the streamlining, if that is the 5 direction things continue to go? 6 MR. BIRD: I don't think -- again, I guess I'm -- 7 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: These are fluctuations of the 8 numbers? 9 MR. BIRD: Right. .Yes. I am optimistic that in 10 the case of this particular agency -- and I know this is an 11 optimistic statement given the backdrop to where the 12 Government is continuing to go, but I am hoping that, to 13 some extent, these reductions have sort of bottomed out for 14 us, and again, particularly with regard to some of the DOE ( 15 work; that the opportunities to flatten out or even maybe 16 have an increase in staff would certainly give us more 17 opportunity to increase the numbers. 18 Again, when we have been in an upward hiring mode, 19 we have done much better with regard -- particularly since 20 we have a good focus in recruitment -- of getting people 21 through the door and making-these numbers go up as a general 22 rule, and I believe if the data we get from outside is 23 correct, there are certainly more women and minority 24 candidates in the fields that we recruit heavily for than 25 there have been in the past. I \\Es ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 l

38 1 So, almost in my mind, by definition, if we are in (~} 2 a growth mode or even if we are in a replacement mode, we s 3 are going to see these numbers improve, and I certainly 4 would hope that is true. 5 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: You are tracking these feeder 6 groups in terms of what happens in those groups, in terms of 7 the entry-level professional positions? 8 MR. BIRD: Yes, particularly with regard to entry 9 levels. 10 Certainly, I would hope that we would be 11 entertaining more entry-level hiring. I am certainly an 12 advocate for that, and I would encourage the Commission to 13 14 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: To encourage you to do that. 15 MR. BIRD: To encourage me to do that. 16 [ Laughter.) 17 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Well, we take advice. 18 I note that the Asian-Pacific-American Advisory 19 Committee's briefing statement indicates that they are 20 concerned about a perception of a longer time in grade f 21 Asian-Pacific-American employees at the 15 to 13 grade 22 levels in comparison with other groups. 23 Do we have statistics relative to time in grade at 24 these levels, categorized by groups, and what can we say 25 about that? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e'

39 1 MR. BIRD: We did a short analysis of that issue, i (~} 2 and if I can find my data sheet, what we found was, w 3 particularly with regard to Asian-Pacific-Americans, was i 4. that that did not seem to hold up at the 13 and 15 levels, j 5 but it certainly did hold up at the Grade 14 level. 6_ Now, again, this was a very short analysis, but I 1 7 believe it is true. It was an average time in the current 8 grade, which'did reflect that at the Grade 14 level, there 1 9 was a longer time for that particular group than others. i 10 The same was not i true at the Grade 13 level, nor [ 11 was it true at the Grade 15 level, and I would be happy to 12 ; . provide that. We certainly will continue to look at this i issue because it is one where I can certainly understand the 13 14 concern that is raised in that regard. ..m l g,) 15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Commissioner Rogers? 16 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: No, I don't have any special 17 questions. 18 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Commissioner Diaz? 19 COMMISSIONER DIAZ: I really feel like I am at a .20 -disadvantage. All of these numbers seem to'be always in_a 21 relative senses, but I would like to say something that I 22 think is from my previous experience in this area. As aos 23 work in using terms to describe what we want to do, I found 24 that there was a term that was very, very appropriate, and 25 that was the term "to enable," rather than just encourage or ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\/ - Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

~.. _ _. - -..... -. 40 i s 1 motivate. The system must be able to enable the person to ($$%-) 2 function and progress to their level of potential 3 achievement. l 4 I think it is a very descriptive term. To enable 5 a person means the person is trying. I always feel like I 6 need to try a little harder. I was maybe a little slower 7 than most people. So I always tried a little harder or 8 tried to run a little faster. 9 I think as the programs are set, the word " enable" 10 is an integrating word in which it.actually looks at the 11' person. It allows the person to realize that they need to j 12 go a step farther, and it also puts the program in the i 13. position of saying I must provide these steps to enable i 14 that. O i;;) 15 I think that is all I want to say. The next time, 16 I will have a few more questions. 17 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Commissioner McGaffigan? 18 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I would first like to 19 ask Ms. Summers a question. 20 You made the distinction between technical skills 21 versus managerial skills and said it would be hard in a 22 technical agency to value one over the other. Why does that 23 have to be versus? Why can't we be looking for senior 24 managers with the appropriate technical skills who can'also 25 manage well? Why do you see it as a versus as opposed to we j l l 't ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 ,9, ,--e .-,--.nn, .-.-..e,

1 41 ) 1 need to find the people with the technical skills who can () 2 also manage well? 3 MS. SUMMERS: It doesn't have to be a versus, but 4 I think, particularly with the kind of technical work we do 5 here, it doesn't give the technical people much of a 6 background in dealing with people when they have chosen to 7 spend most of their life dealing with figures and dealing 8 with metallurgy or various other technical issues. Their 9 backgrounds are not nacessarily -- have not necessarily 10 thrown them together in a situation where they.have had to 11 deal with people in the past, even in the agency at the 12 lower grades in the work that.they have done. 13 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: One thing I might just 14 ask the people around the personnel system, what sort of O sjj 15 opportunities are there for the technical folks at fairly 16 senior levels? I mean, there are all these courses. You 17 could take a year at a public administration school and get 18 a master's in public administration or you could.take a 19 summer -- you know, the Kennedy School has a summer program 20 for senior managers and Government. How often do we have 21 people take advantage of those sorts of programs to try to 22 broaden them out of the metallurgist to the manager? 23 > MS. NORRY: We make good use of those programs, 24 perhaps some of them, like the one at the Kennedy School, 25 which I agree is a tremendous program. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\# Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

4* 9 42 1. COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Did you go to it? I'T 2 MS. NORRY: Oh, yes. It was terrific. ) 3-COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I see. 4 MS. NORRY: But it is very expensive, and it does 1 5 get to be almost pricing itself out of the market, but 6 things'like the Federal Executive Institute and other 7 programs -- I think, 10 years ago, I would have said, and 8 many would'have said-that we did not do.a good job of 9 emphasizing management skillo; that in fact, it was true 10 that technical skills totally predominated in terms of how 11. people got ahead. 12 I really don't think that is true -- 13 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Is anybody able to be promoted 14 today without having gone through some kind of managerial R ([j 15 training or program? 16 MS. NORRY: We get them at the earlier stage'where 17 we have required courses. When you are going into a 18 managerial, you have to have passed certain levels of 19 required courses. 20 MR. BIRD: But I don't think that is .21 all-inclusive. 22 CRAIRMAN JACKSON: It is not a systematic program, l 23 and it is not a built-in requirement at this point? .i 24 MR. BIRD: Not yet. 25 MS. NORRY: But we make you play catch-up if you l l l l 'Sh ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Si/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202)'842-0034

4 4,* n 43 i i get in a job and you haven't been through the managerial j 2 courses. 3 MR. BIRD: It is mandatory training, but maybe a l ) 4 little too late. f-5 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Excuse me, Commissioner 6 McGaffigan. l 7 Over what time window are people required to catch l ~ 8 up, so to speak? i S 9 MR. BIRD: I don't remember exactly. Perhaps i 10 someone on my staff might remember. 4 j 11 MS. HAMILL: Eighteen months. i i i 12 MR. BIRD: Is it 18 months? It is an 18-month l 13 time frame for the required training elements to be 14 complete. <"s (gj) 15 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: We are basically 16 resource-constrained to some degree. 1 17 I had a friend who is a Pentagon manager who had a 18 really critical stage in his career. He was a white male. 19 So h2 wouldn't meet an EEO target, but he got a whole year 20 ,at the Kennedy School, plus his salary, and got himself a 21 master's degree, which clearly enhanced his career 22 thereafter. That was in the mid '70s Pentagon when they 23 were on one of their down slopes. 24 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Yes, but their down slopes are 25 our up slopes. ~~ ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\M Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 r

44 1 [ Laughter.] 2 MS. NORRY: One of the things, though, that we } 3 have here, which perhaps some other agencies don't, we have 4 a very strong internal training program, and Paul and his 5 staff have developed many, many courses which are offered 6 in-house. 7 The ones outside are perhaps available not to 8 everyone, but we still do take advantage of those, 9 particularly FEI, which I believe still runs a good program. 10 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Let Ms. Summers get a 11 word in. 12 MS. SUMMERS: I don't think it is so much a 13 question of the training courses that are offered as the 14 importance that is placed on the choosing and promotion of ) 15 people, depending on their people skills more than their 16 technical skills. 17 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Or as much. 18 MS. SUMMERS: Or as much. Well, I guess I would 19 hope that as they got higher, it would become more people 20 skills than technical skills, on the assumption that their 21 technical skills were what got them the job in the first 22 place and that they spent many years at the lower levels 23 honing those skills, but I would just like to read two lines 24 here from the book because this speaks of another technical 25 agency where it says, "There is a tremendous preoccupation ~T ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. N-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 e (202) 842-0034

45 i 1 in getting the job done." This is true for n inagers. They 2 get so caught up that they fail to see the importance of 3 people. I don't think anybcdy believes they will get by on 4 people development alone. j l 5 I think that is the kind of thinking that is very l 6 prevalent here because we do have such an important 4 { technical mission that even the highest-level managers are 7 8 more concerned with the technical job to be done than i 9 necessarily the people skills of themselves or their 10 managers. i 11 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I would like to ask just 4 { 12 a couple more questions. The Tablas 1.2 and 1.3, it looks [ 13 like the intern program, and both of these are tiny 14 programs, but it looks like the intern program is a i m ( )) 15 relatively effective mechanism for meeting EEO goals, 16 compared to the graduate fellowship program where it is more 17 a matter of -- that it is really Table 1.4 that shows who is 18 in it, but given the applicant pool, the result of who is in 19 it is determined. R20 I don't know much about a graduate fellowship 4 j 21 program. I didn't know actually until I saw this paper last l 22 night that we had one. Why do we have one as opposed to 23 just relying on the NSF and other -- you know, there is a 4' 24 myriad of fellowship programs -- some run -- the Hertz 25 Foundation, whatever -- especially if it isn't helping us in [~'} ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. 'U Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 /

46' 1 this area. 2 MR. BIRD: That program, if I remember correctly, s 3 started about three or four years ago in the interest of 4

trying to develop a specific skill that we had a lack of 5

. abundance of in the agency. 6 I guess I can think of an example, a digital 7 instrumentation. The whole notion was that we would -- 8 again, working with Oak Ridge Institute of Science and 9 Engineering -- go out with a large network of people, get a 11 0 candidate base developed, find someone who was motivated to l 11 go to graduate school in an area that-we defined. 12 We then would bring them in. They would serve 13 nine months in-house, and then they would go off to graduate 14 school, hopefully to come back with that skill and then be a ) 15 .long-term asset to'the agency. 16 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: What is the requirement -17 for years of service per. year of graduate school? 18 MR. BIRD: I believe it is two to one. 19 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Two t one. 20 MR. BIRD: So, if you are away for a year, then we 21 have got you. 22 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Do we have any 12 3 evaluation as to whether the graduate fellowship program -- 24 I guess if it is that young, we probably don't have the 25 people back yet. l l f 's. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. !\\- Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e 1

'N 47 i 1 MR. BIRD: Well, there are some that have gone I'd 2 through the program now. I believe there are a couple that %%/ 3 have returned to the staff, and at least my initial feedback l 4 -- and I didn't look at it specifically for this meeting, 5 but it was that, certainly, they accomplished what they set i l I 6 out to accomplish in those programs, and they are going to i 7 be looked at valuable assets in the agency. l 8 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: And the rationale is 9 trying to find that equivalent person just graduating from 10 one of the graduate schools and recruiting them, we are not l 11 competitive doing that? People in digital instrumentation 12 -- I mean, you know -- 13 MR. BIRD: Yes. That was the notion, again, that 14 this would be an enhanced recruitment tool. We would be i s l (2) 15 offering them not just an internship within NRC, but an 16 option to go and have graduate school paid for at our 17 expense, and then -- 18 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Do they get their salary 19 while they are in graduate school? l 20 MR. BIRD: They get a stipend. 21 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Get a stipend. 22 MR. BIRD: So there is a very attractive feature 23 to that program in that regard for those students who do 24 wish to get an advanced education, and again, that was the 25 design. The program is a little different than the intern ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. . \\- Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 i (202) 842-0034 e

48-7 1 program. ) 2 Certainly, someone in the intern program could go 3 On to-graduate school at our expense. So it doesn't accept 4 those people, but the design was a little different to 5 attract, again, a little bit of a different person, not 6 planning to come to work, but planning to go to graduate 7 school and to allow us to at least have an opportunity to i 8 recruit them. 9 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I just suggest to Ms. 10 Little that this is one of the programs you need to keep an 11 eye.on. 12 MR. BIRD: It has been very small so far. The 13' program offices do this out of their hides, if you will, in 14 FTE. So it is the goodwill of the office directors that we i 15. have been able to do this at all, and again, some of the 16 office directors might be able to -- 17 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: Maybe that is another 5 18 . reason. 19 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Another reason to have them 20 there. 21 Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER DIAZ: I want to put my university-23 hat on for a minute. 24 -In some of the things from the graduate fellowship j 25 program, it really has been a very dry and hard time out l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. E-Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 )

~.. - -.. - ~ - -. -.... - e f, l. I 49 l l 1 there in the universities for fellowships, for people that << } 2 are going to be involved in the nuclear engineering, 3 sciences, or anything. So practically any of these programs 4 are seen as life savers. 5 As far as I am concerned, and I have several of 6 these programs going, any time you have somebody in a 7 fellowship or even an assistant-ship -- I have some 8 Department of Defense assistant-ships that went through 9 programs -- you actually plug the individual to the 10 organization in a certain way, and it does give you a 11 recruiting advantage. 12 From the standpoint of the NRC, I always found 13 that we graduate an enormous amount of engineers in this 14 country, and many of them went to work in the nuclear Lg ) 15 industry, one way or another, that know very little about l 16 regulation, and that went out there and actually don't 17 realize there is a tremendous interface that they have to 18 work with. 19 No matter how good their technical skills are, 20 they are actually handicapped by the lack of knowledge of ) 21 the regulation. So I would encourage us to really try to 22 put this program there and force the fellows to come here 23 and learn what nuclear regulations are. 24 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Okay. Commissioners Rogers? 25 COMMISSIONER ROGERS: Well, my observation of the e i i i ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 l l

50 1 graduate fellowship program here is"that it has really been 2 very targeted, and while there aren't many participants, it (} 3 has been very useful. 4 The one or two cases that I have had an 5 opportunity to look at, I don't think you have gotten those 6 people out of the NSF and other graduate fellowship 7 programs. The fact that they have to come here first and 8 become part of our work force before they get into it, I 9 think, is a very big difference, and when they go to 10 graduate school, it is vary targeted towards things that we 11 are most interested in. 12 So, while the numbers are small and I think that 13 there is probably all kinds of reasons for that, I do think 14 that the program itself has been very effective, at least in L() 15 the opportunities that I have had to look at it. 16 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: From time to time, the 17 Commission receives comments that there is a bias in our 18 hiring and, promotion relative to those who come from the 29 Nuclear Navy. Have we looked at that? 20 I know we have made the argument that it is a good 21 source of highly qualified people, but presumably, it is not 22 the only source. So are you looking at that when you speak 23 about recruitment, not just for minorities and women,, but 24 more broadly? 25 MR. BIRD: Yes. Again, we have never had a rating ~~ ) ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. 4/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

. _. _. _ _. _ _ _. _ _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _. - - ~ _... - _ M 51 r 1 criteria that says you 'have to have been in the Navy or gone l') 2 to the Naval Academy in order to come to work, and s-4 3 certainly, that is something that many feel that there are 4 .certain aavantages from having been through the Nuclear Navy 4. 4 i j 5 Training Program. certainly in hiring inspectors, { 6 particularly. I think there is a value that does show up to 7 some extent in the criteria in operating experience. { .8 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: But in the end, if you are l '9 looking at pumps and valves and gages and so on, there are 10 any number of programs that presumably prepare people for j 11 that. i i 12 MR. BIRD: I believe so, and I certainly think i 13 that many of those get into our candidates base and should 14 be looked at there, despite the fact that they have not been -s 3!:- 15 through the Nuclear Navy power school, nor have they had ? 16 commercial experience, but they are very viable candidates, i 17 and certainly, some of the training, the Chattanooga 1 4 j 18 Training Center, are options of ways to get that experience. 1 4 19 I know Ed Jordan and I have talked from time to 20 time, and the Commission has been involved in the question 21 of perhaps even having some people having experience at a 22 utility. The Congress got.into that at one point and 23 admonished us and said that that wasn't a good idea, but we 24 were looking for ways to get at the problem that you are 25 describing of how to get people, valued and experienced, .m ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 c

_ _ _ _ ~. _. d 52 1 without having to go to particular sources.. ,lI') 2 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: I mean, presumably, if we are ,e 3 dealing with issues, particularly as the nuclear plants 4 mature, with things such as digital instrumentation and 5 control systems and power systems, looking at aging issues 6 which involve not just mechanical engineering, but 7 metallurgy and other issues, that even at the bachelor's and 8 master's levels, there are ranges of institutions, including. j. 9 ones represented by any number in the area and within a 10 certain radius, that prepare individuals who can add great 11 value to our regulatory program. Is.that correct? 12 MR. BIRD: Yes. I= totally agree with'that, and I q 13 think it' takes me back to something that I said earlier i 14 about entry level, hiring an intern, hiring. S 34,). 15 In a tight FTE environment, it is tough to make a ~ 16 commitment to a long training process. If it is a year or 17 two, training involved with getting people up to have that 18-operating experience, for example - 19 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: But I repeat, the operating 20 experience is one part of it. 21. MR. BIRD: That is right. 22-CHAIRMAN JACKSON: But there are a lot of other 23 systems in a plant that have to be understood, evaluated. I 24 mean, in the end, I always draw the analogy of driving a 25 car. I can be a good driver and I can look at the road and IT ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. ' \\[k/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C 20005 (202) 842-0034 i.-.

53 1 obey the speed limit, and I don't talk this way when I am ([] 2 driving on the road, et cetera, but in the end, I am driving %j 3 a piece of machinery, right? Somebody has .o be able to 4 look at and make some statement about it. 5 Commissioner Diaz? 6 COMMISSIONER DIAZ: Yes, just two comments. 7 First, you keep eaying the word " operating," and I have many l 8 people from the Nuclear Navy who work for me. 9 The majority of them have no operating experience. t 10 We have the misconception that people that come from the l-11 Nuclear Navy were operators or had operating experience, and 12 a significant majority does not have operating experience. l l 13 Only electronic mates, you know, had really operating 14 experience or their supervising officers. The rest of them l (f) 15 do ont. 16 But something crossing my mind is that we were 17 talking a while ago about preselection, and now we are 18 talking about the Navy and things. Maybe there will be a 19 good cross-correlation, a good point to start. l I 20 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: That is what I am getting at. l 21 That is what I am getting at. 22 [ Laughter.] 23 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: I might just ask, t 24 though, from a personnel system perspective, what is the 25 value of veterans preference for an entry-level position? ["* ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. i \\s-Court Reporters 1250 I Street', N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 /

54 1 Because the veterans preference and our skill needs are )T') 2 going to lead to the Nuclear Pavy, and that is a matter of ~_s 3 law, right? 4 MR. BIRD: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: If you have two equally 6 qualified candidates and one is a veteran, you are supposed 7 to hire the veteran? 8 MR. BIRD: Yes, if they actually have the -- 9 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: But it doesn't say there is a 4 10 Nuclear Navy -- 11 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN: No, but my brother drove 12 tanks, and I don't think he would be particularly' good as a 13 candidate for most of our jobs. 14 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Thank you. ) 15 Would the National Treasury Employees Union 16 representative like to make any comment? 17 MR. THOMAS: Yes. 18 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: You can go to the podium. That 19 may be the easiest thing to do. Why don't you just talk 20 into the microphone. 21 MR. THOMAS: I didn't have any prepared statement 22 here, but I jotted down a few points I would like to make. 23 We have initiated a program through the National 24 _ Performance Review to eventually downsize or reduce the 25 -level of management, particularly middle management. , (7% ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. %C/ Court Reporters 1 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

l t e 55 1 We are in a situation in this agency where for /'} 2 every two employees that are in the bargaining unit, there 3 is one employee who is excluded. There is a rational reason 4 for excluding managers and supervisors. The big area of 5 exclusion is for confidential employees. A large number of 6 those confidential employees are women and minorities, deny r l 7 the representation by the union. That is something I 8 believe that particularly in the partnership arena. When a 1 9 large number of managers and supervisors are no longer { i l 10 involved in any way, shape or form in day-to-day labor 11 policy, a lot of these folks are being discriminated 12 against, and I think the Commission should take a look at 13 that as far as the representational rights. 1 14-With regard to some of the data that is here, I ) 15 have been to quite a few of these present, and the data 16 always seem the same to me and always seem to be missing 17 some very, very key factors. l 18 We typically take a look at the profile of the 19 agency, the EEO profiles. We ignore information about the L 20 profile of our applicants and the profile of the best 21 qualified list. What the supervisor is looking at is 22 particular best qualified list, and if you have a situation 23 of highly qualified individuals where, let's say, 50 percent 24 of that group are women and minorities and 10 percent are f 1 l 25 the selectees, women and minorities, we have got a problem, [** ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. \\- Court Reporters l 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 v i

56 1 but if the data is just presented as far as what we looked 7) 2 like last year and what we look like this year without ~- 3 knowing the profile of the folks that were being considered 4 for those positions, we don't know what we are doing. We 5 are just looking from day to day and hoping.that the 6 situation will improve itself. 7 I would hope that somewhere in the process, since 8 we have the systera. computerized, that we can actually 9 generate that sort of data, so that you can see at 10 subsequent briefings the profile of the candidates, the 11 profile of the best qualified list, and the profile of the 12 final selection list'to see if there is something that is 13 unusual going on here. 14 The other thing that to me is a very serious flaw m kg) 15 in the data that is being presented on EEO is the issue,of 16 equal pay for equal work. 17 I have sent one or two e-mails to some of the 18 Commission regarding our classification system. Our 19 classification system is so old, it is beyond belief. We 20 are using classification standards for computer experts that 21 were developed before the IBM PC was marketed. 22 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: You have about -- 23 MR. THOMAS: Two minutes. Okay. 24 If we are going to work the system properly, we 25 need to be able to classify the jobs to where, instead of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 r

j o, i r 57 rating the job relative to the grade level of the person 1 () 2 performing it, that a particular job function carries a 3 grade level. That way, the people are being compensated for 4 what they are doing, not just because they are a particular 5. grade. 1 i 6 Preselection was an issue that was raised earlier. 7 That has been a long issue. It has been here since they 8 hung up the sign, and I guess there were arguments about the 9 sign hanger being preselected. 10 One of the things that you need to do is to 11 standardize the vacancy system. You are hiring a Grade 14 12 nuclear engineer. If that is standardized where it is very 13 easy for the person to use that standardized announcement 14 and very difficult to deviate from the standard, it makes it m ._) 15 difficult to rig the system, and the other factor in 16 preselection is to bar communications between the rating 17 panel and the selecting official, to try to rate one 18 candidate getting on or off the best qualified list. 19 Nuclear Navy issue. I would dispute one point 20 made by Mr. Bird. We have had rating factors that reference 21 the Nuclear Navy. It is rare, but they have occurred. One 22 way of getting an A on this is being in a Nuclear Navy 23 program or something of that type. 24 I think it is an issue. I am not aware of 25 management trying to dictate that as a policy, but I think ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034

l - ) 'o j 58 7 I we have had prior commissioners and EDO that is from the {}'-) 2 Nuclear Navy, and there is a perception that goes all the 3 way down through management that those are *ne people we 4 want to' hire. I think something does need to be done with 5 that as far as doing a profile. 6 The last thing I would like to mention is a job 7 crediting plan. We have agreed to that, and I think that 8 will help preselection. 9 Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Are there any further comments 11 from any of the presenters? 12 [No response.] 13 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: Any further comments from the 14 Commissioners? Ag 15 (No response.] 16 CHAIRMAN JACKSON: In closing, let me thank all of 17 the employees in attendance for your interest and to thank 18 all of the participants for your views, comments, and 19 suggestions. 20 This was a briefing on a complex subject that is 21 designed to ensure that all of our employees are provided an 22 equal opportunity to display their talents and to contribute 23 to the agency's mission, and as we approach the year 2000 24 and face the various challenges and opportunities, I 25 encourage the managers and supervisors to the best of their ^'- ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. s/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 l-(202) 842-0034

._m . _ _ _.. ~ _. _ _.. - - _. _ _ -. 1 l 59 I .1. abilities to evaluate all employees fairly and objectively [ ) 2 and to recognize those employees who demonstrate superior 1 3 oerformance and to provide opportunities for training and 4 development for all employees. 5 I think that in order to hear more about what you 6 are doing in that regard, as I indicated, I think that in 7 addition to hearing from the panel that is here, we will I 8 hear from a number of our office directors at the next 9 briefing. We particularly, then, would like to hear l'O relative to the issues related to preselection to 11 recruitment and to this issue of the development of true 12 managerial skills and the evaluation of them as part of job 13 performance. 14 I would also like to urge all employees to, again () 15 -- and you have heard this from me before -- to avail I 16 you';selves of various training opportunities,. rotational 17 assignments, and developmental opportunities in order to j l 18 maximize your potential for excellence and for advancement I ( 19 at the NRC. 20 I think the final comment is the whole point of 21 this briefing is that we do not discriminate. We are l looking to maximize the potential of all of our employees 22 i 23 and to manage diversity in its complete sense. 24 So I look forward to hearing about the progress we 25 have made in this area, in the EEO area, at the next l f N ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. e i i_/ Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 /

60 1 briefing. O 2 Thank you. U 3 (Whereupon, at 3:30 p.m., the briefing was 4 concluded.] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 hi 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 i 24 25 ^ ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. b' Court Reporters 1250 I Street, N.W., Suite 300 Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 842-0034 e'

t f-CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached description of a meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled: TITLE OF MEETING: BRIEFING ON EEO PROGRAM - PUBLIC MEETING PLACE OF MEETING: Rockville, Maryland DATE.OF MEETING: Thursday, February 20, 1997 was held as herein appears, is a true and accurate record of

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the meeting, and that this is the original transcript thereof taken stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company Transcriber: (lo e csf(2ct/fn, j)~ ~A Reporter: Mark Mahoney . ~. J Q e r - - - _ - _ _ _}}