ML20134K210
| ML20134K210 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Saxton File:GPU Nuclear icon.png |
| Issue date: | 01/28/1997 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
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| References | |
| NUDOCS 9702130187 | |
| Download: ML20134K210 (109) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4
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5 PUBLIC MEETING 6
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7 TUESDAY I
8 January 28, 1997 9
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10 11 The Public Hearing was held at the Saxton 12 Volunteer Fire Company Hall, Eight & Norris Street, 13 Saxton, Pennsylvania, Ms. Norma Ickes, Chairman of the 14 Bedford County Commissioners, presiding.
15 PRESENT:
16 Representing GPU Nuclear 17 G. A.
KUEHN 18 SYLVIA J. MORRIS 19 Representing the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 ALEXANDER ADAMS 21 JOHN WHITE 22 DR. MICHAEL MASNIK HOLLER 23 GENE If9JhWit 24 NEIL SHEEHAN 25 THOMAS DRAGC,0N 9702130187 970211 PDR ADOCK 05000146 NEAL R. GROSS T
,0URT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
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1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234 4433
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PRESENT:
-(Cont.)
2 Representing the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 3
LEE THONUS i
4 ETOY HYLTON 5
Bedford County Commissioners 6
GARY EBERSOL f
7 DICK RICE 8
Representing State Representative Dick Hess 9
JAMES KEIFFER 10 i
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12 4
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13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCR18ERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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1 AGENDA 2
OPENING REMARKS
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BY MS. NORMA ICKES 4
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4 PRESENTATION BY ALEXANDER ADAMS 7
5 PRESENTATION BY JOHN WHITE 27 6
QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION 31 7
PRESENTATION BY G. A. KUEHN 61 8
QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION 85 9
CLOSING COMMENTS 10 BY MS. NORMA ICKES 106 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 PROCEEDINGS 2
7:00 p.m.
3 MS. ICKES:
Good evening.
We have an annoying 4
hum here, and we want to turn this off and get rid of it.
5 6
Speaking of annoyances, driving here tonight, 7
I had someone behind me almost the entire way who had 8
their left headlight on high beam, so I feel like I'm here 9
with right eye abuse.
Unfortunately, they live in 10 Riddlesburg, and they followed me here almost the entire 11 way.
12 I am Norma Ickes, I'm Chairman of the Bedford 13 County Commissioners, and I was delighted when a few 14 months ago Al Adams called and asked me to chair this 15 meeting.
16 The Commissioners of Bedford County are very 17 concerned with the dismantling of the reactor, and we are 18 very anxious to take part in the process.
19 With me here tonight are my fellow 20 Commissioners, Dick Rice, and also Gary Ebersol.
21 I would stress to you that this is an 22 information gathering meeting.
It is not any formal 23 public hearing.
I would ask you to take note that it will 24 be transcribed.
25 At the end of the meeting, and you will see on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W.
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1 your agenda, there is a public comment portion.
And when 2
you give your public comments, we would ask that they be 3
done at the microphone.
You will see the one back here, 4
it doesn't have that annoying hum and it will be turned 5
on.
6 We also have a transcriber here with us 7
tonight.
When you ask your question, please give your 8
full name and spell your last name.
If she has any 9
problem hearing anything, she will raise her hand, and i
10 then you will need te repeat.
11 So we will then move on, also, to the fact 1
12 that there is our agenda and other information in the back 13 of the room.
So if you do not have an agenda, at this 14 point, would you raise your hand and we will see that you i
15 get one.
16 I would also ask that at some point, break 17 would be a very good time, if you have not already done 18 so, and are going to make a public comment, that you sign 19 that sheet in the back, and also note that there is 20 another sheet.
This sheet will put you on a mailing list.
21 And in the interest of saving trees, we would 22 ask that you share information.
When this task force, and 23 when the process is completed, then the mailing list will 24 stop.
25 Also, keep in mind that the information from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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the meeting, tonight, will be kept on permanent record at 2
the Saxton library, so you can always look at it there if 3
you don't care to keep copies for yourself.
4 We will have a bound transcript copy of all 5
overhead slides, all the materials that are presented 6
tonight.
And if you have any information that you want to 7
contribute to that, you can do so.
If it is just a few 8
sheets, it will be included.
If it is a larger amount of 9
material, then it will be at the discretion of the 10 transcriber to make a summary of that r.Aterial.
11 I would ancourage you, during the break and at 12 the end of the meeting, to stop and talk with those who 13 are representatives of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 14 and for those of you who are part of the media, we would 15 ask that you hold your questions outside of the building l6 or this general meeting area, and again, confine that to 17 the break time or after the scheduled meeting.
18 I will now turn this meeting over to Al Adams, 19 a representative of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
20 And before I do that, I would speak for all 21 residents of the county.
And when I think about this 22 whole process, I think about the three C's.
And that 23 would be to exercise for all of us caution.
24 There is a healthy amount of caution needed 25 here, whenever this process unfolds.
Also, concern.
We NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRlRERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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are very concerned.
Our county is in your hands.
2 And the third C that I think of is 3
credibility.
We are looking to your credibility to 4
provide us with a safe process.
5 Al?
6 MR. ADAMS:
Thank you.
Can everybody hear me?
7 Good evening.
My name is Al Adams, I'm the 8
NRC licensing project manager for the Saxton facility.
I 9
work in the Rockville, Maryland, NRC headquarters.
10 I have a number of other NRC people with me.
11 I'd like to introduce them.
Also from the Rockville 12 office is Mike Masnik.
He is the acting section chief of wer 13 the decommissioning section of the non-pA4t#4 reactors, directorate.
14 and decommissioning project pytAQypt.
15 Also with us is Paul Harris, he is a licensing 16 project manager in our office.
We have with us, also, 17 Eugene Holler.
He is an attorney from NRC headquarters 18 with the office of the General Counsel.
l 19 Lee Thonus, he is a project manager from our 20 project office at Three Mile Island.
From the NRC region 21 1 office in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, is Thomas 22 Dragoun, a project scientist who is responsible for the 23 inspection program at Saxton, and John White, who is Tom's 24 supervisor, and chief of the radiation safety branch.
25 From the Region 1 public affairs office, is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Can I have the next slide, please?
2 The purpose of tonight's meeting is to provide 3
you with some information on the decommissioning of 4
nuclear reactors, to share with your our experiences in 1
5 the oversight of decommissioning activities, to explain 6
the Commission's regulations on decommissioning, and where the Saxton facility fits into the regulatcry framework, 7
8 and to allow the licensee to discuss the decommissioning 9
of Saxton.
i 10 First a few words about NRC.
NRC was formed 11 in 1975, succeeding the Atomic Energy Commission, to l
12 regulate the various commercial and institutional uses of 13 nuclear energy.
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I 14 NRC has responsibility to protect public j
15 health and safety.
We accomplish this by three principal 16 regulatory functions.
17 We establish standards and regulations, we 18 issue licenses for facilities and users of nuclear 19 material, and we inspect facilities and users to assure 20 compliance with the requirements.
21 NRC places high priority on keeping the public 22 informed of its work.
This is the reason for being here 23 today.
24 At this point it might be helpf,ul to explain 25 some terms that come up frequently, when discussing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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decommissioning.
Two of these terms are " radioactive i
2 activation and radioactive contamination."
3 Radioactive activation is the process of i
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inducing radioactivity, or making something radioactive by j
5 irradiation.
Activation can only occur when the reactor f
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is operated, and only in material near the reactor core 7
that interacts with the neutrons produced by operation of l
8 the reactor.
9 Steel that is inside the reactor vessel, and 10 has been irradiated by neutrons during the time the plant 11 operated, becomes activated.
12 Radioactive contamination is the deposition of 13 radioactive material in a place where it is not desired.
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14 For example, the inside of a pump may be
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15 contaminated on its surfaces by contact with elements in 16 water that were activated when the water passed through 17 the neutron field in the core of the operating reactor.
18 The pump could be decontaminated by removing 19 the radioactive contamination by washing.
This 20 decontamination process may produce some radioactive waste 21 that is disposed of, off-site, but may allow the pump to 22 be released for unrestricted use.
23 On the other hand, no amount of scrubbing on 1
24 the surface of activated metal in the reactor vessel will t
25 remove the atoms scattered throughout the interior of the j
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metal that have become radioactive due to activativn.
2 That piece of metal will have to be physically of 3
dismantled and disposed dff off-site.
Items that are 4
activated or contaminated or both are found at the Saxton 5
facility.
6 Two other terms that may be used frequently 7
during a discussion of decommissioning are " radioactive 8
decay and half life."
9 The nucleus of a radioactive atom is unstable, 10 and wants to disintegrate by the emission of charged 11 particles, or photons.
This is called radioactive decay.
12 The amount of time it takes for radioactive 13 substance to lose half of its activity by radioactive 14 decay is the half-life.
15 For example, a common element found in the 16 steel used in reactors is cobalt.
The radioactive 17 activation of cobalt usually produces a radioactive 18 isotope of cobalt called cobalt 60.
19 It has a half-life of about five and a quarter 20 years, and decays into non-radioactive nickel.
As an 21 example, if we assume there was 100 ounces of cobalt 60 at 22 Saxton when it shut down in May 1972, there would be about 23 four ounces of Cobalt 60 today, and about 96 ounces of 24 nickel.
25 This means that 96 percent of Cobalt 60 will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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decay away over a period of 25 years.
1 2
Now I would like to talk, in general, about l
3 decommissioning of reactors.
There are definite stages in j
4 the life of a nuclear reactor, including planning, 5
construction, licensing, operation, and finally 6
decommissioning and license termination.
7 The purpose of decommissioning is to remove I
8 the facility safely from service, and reduce residual 9
radioactivity at the facility and site to a level that
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10 permits the release of the site, and termination of the 4
11 NRC license.
12 The focus of the NRC is limited solely to the 13 safe removal of the radiological hazards resulting from 14 the operation and use of the facility.
t 15 For example, if the licensee has 16 decontaminated structures to levels that meet the release 17 criteria, it is possible that a site could be released and i
18 the license terminated, with structures remaining on-site.
f 19 At that point, the fact that a licensee may or 20 may not choose to spend additional funds to remove 21 buildings from a site, is outside our regulatory 22 oversight.
23 One aspect of decommissioning is removing the i
24 facility safely from service.
At Saxton, the facility was 25 removed from service in the early 1970's.
Once a facility NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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permanently ceases operations, the systems at the facility l
2 of continuing regulatory concern, are principally those 3
used for the safe storage of irradiated spent fuel.
4 At Sarton, the fuel and some other radioactive 5
components were removed from the f acility durir3g thw 1672 6
to 1974 time frame.
7 In 1975 the facility was placed into a form of 8
long-term storage, that is now called SAFSTOR, to allow 9
radioactive decay of activated and contaminated 10 components.
11 Once the residual levels of radioactive 12 materials are reduced to below certain criteria, either by 13 decontamination or dismantlement and disposal off-site, license 14 the MRC for the facility and site can be terminated.
15 Before the license is terminated, the licensee 16 has to perform an extensive final survey that proves to 17 the NRC that the site is clean enough to terminate the 18 license.
19 The NRC may do a confirmatory survey, to be 20 certain that the site is clean enough.
Once the license 21 is terminated, the NRC no longer has any regulatory 22 oversight over the facility or site.
j 23 This is the ultimate goal of decommissioning, 24 termination of the license.
25 So to summarize, decommissioning is the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RK7DE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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removal of the facility from cervice, and the reduction in 2
the levels of radioactivity at the facility and the site, 3
to levels that will ultimately result in the termination 4
of the license.
5 NRC oversight activities relate directly to 6
the proper decontamination and dismantlement of the 7
facility, to protect public health and safety.
8 Now that I've provided some background on l
9 decommissioning I would like to talk a little about our 10 experiences with decommissioning reactors in the United j
11 States.
12 We have had 15 nuclear power reactors 13 permanently cease operations and begin decommissioning i
j 14 since the early 1960s.
Also, about 80 research and test 15 reactors have been decommissioned, and have had their 16 licenses terminated.
17 I have put a few selected facilities on the 18 slide.
There has been a fair amount of experience in the 19 area of decommissioning.
A number of nuclear power plants 20 licensed by NRC are in long-term storage.
The condition l
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21 is called SAFSTOR.
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22 Some nuclear power plants are actively being 23 dismantled, and one, the Shoreham plant, has had its 24 license terminated.
25 The Fort St. Vrain plant in Colorado is also NEAL R. GROSS court REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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very close to having its license terminated. -Trojan and 2
Yankee Rowe are currently undergoing active 3
decommissioning.
4 Shippingport was under Department of Energy jurisdiction, but is another example that decommissioning 5
6 can be completed safely.
7 Please note that Saxton, which was licensed 8
for power levels up to about 35 megawatts, is much smaller 9
than some of the other facilities we have dealt with.
10 NRC also has a number of experienced personnel 11 who are working on oversight of decommissioning 12 activities.
Some of these people are with us today.
13 For example, Mike Masnik and Lee Thonus were 14 involved in the oversight of the clean up of Three Mile 15 Island Unit II for many years.
And Mike is the project 16 manager for the Trojan nuclear plant, which is now 17 undergoing active decommissioning.
18 Gene Holler is a legal expert on 19 decommissioning rules and regulations, and has worked with 20 our group on many decommissioning issues.
I have been 21 project manager for 11 decommissionings and 9 license 22 terminations.
23 In the region, Tom Dragoun has been the 24 inspector for three decommissionings and two license I'
25 terminations.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS l
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D 15 on my slide about the status of shut down 1
reactors, I show that we have some facilities that are in 2
3 long-term storage, or in decontamination and 4
dismantlement.
5 Our regulations require licensees to establish 6
if dismantlement should begin immediately, or if the 7
facility can be stored in a safe, stable condition for 8
some period of time, before the licensee begins 9
dismantlement.
10 The licensee may even conduct a partial 11 dismantlement, followed by a storage period, ending with 12 final dismantlement.
This is the path that Saxton has 13 taken.
14 Our regulations se/ that under normal 15 circumstances, the licensee has 60 years after shutdown to 16 complete decommissioning.
17 The decision to dismantle immediately or place 18 the facility in storage is a licensee decision.
This 19 decision is reviewed by the NRC to ensure that whatever 20 approach is planned, there is acceptable assurance that it 21 would be conducted safely.
22 NRC performed the generic environmental impact 23 study that looked at decommissioning options, and we 1
determined that as long as the licensee complied with our 25 regulations, either option, or a combination of options l
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could be acceptable.
2 One of the principal reasons for arriving at 3
this conclusion is because the risk to public health and 4
safety, and to the environment associated with licensee 5
activities at nuclear reactor facilities undergoing 6
decommissioning, is significantly less than when the plant 7
was operating.
8 The risk at Saxton significantly decreased 9
with the cessation of operations, and the removal of fuel 10 from the site, and continues to decrease during the 11 storage period, due to radioactive decay.
12 This reduction in risk is so significant, that 13 many of the regulatory requirements associated with plant 14 operation are no longer needed.
15 For example, many of the detailed technical 16 requirements applicable only to an operating plant, such 17 as operating parameters and surveillance requirements were 18 gradually removed from the license starting in 1972, based 19 on a detailed evaluation by the NRC staff of the risk.
20 So to summarize, there have been a number of 21 reactors in the United States that have been permanently 22 shutdown, are in the process of decommissioning, and have 23 completed decommissioning and undergone license 24 termination.
25 Decommissioning is a well established and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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understood process, and the NRC staff has considerabFa
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experience on the oversight of these activities.
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There is a reduction in regulatory 4
requirements on licensees as decommissioning progresses.
5 This reduction is based on the significant reduction in 6
risk to the public due to permanent cessation of reactor l
7 operation.
8 I next want to talk a little about the 1
9 regulations governing decommissioning.
The l
10 decommissioning regulations are in addition to other il regulations that the licensee must follow, such as those t
12 related to radiation safety.
13 Comprehensive regulations dealing with reactor 14 decommissioning were promulgated in 1988.
15 Based on the experience gained over the next seven years, 16 the Commission extensively revised the regulations of 17 1996.
l 18 In July of 1996, the NRC published a final 19 rule making that substantially changed the decommissioning 20 process.
I will discuss the relationship of the 21 regulations to the Saxton decommissioning process.
22 The regulations require that each power l
23 reactor licensee submit a preliminary decommissioning cost 1
24 estimate about 5 years prior to the projected end of 25 operations.
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obviously, in the case of Saxton, the reactor
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was permanently shut down before/ preliminary cost estimate L;
3 was even required by the regulations.
4 However, they still have been collecting the 5
funds necessary for decommissioning the facility, and have 1
6 submitted decommissioning cost estimates to NRC.
7 The licensee is required to submit a written 8
certification to the NRC within 30 days of the decision to l
l l
9 permanently cease operations.
And, again, when the fuel 10 has been permanently removed from the reactor vessel.
I 11 Because the Saxton license was permanently 12 modified in 1972 to allow possession but not operation of 13 the facility, the rules specify that the required 14 certifications have been submitted.
15 Saxton had started down the path for 16 decommissioning and license termination, under 17 decommissioning regulations that the NRC issued in 1988.
18 A decommissioning plan to decontaminate the 19 containment vessel and its structures, systems and 20 components, was submitted to NRC in February of 1996, 21 followed by a decommissioning environmental report, and 22 proposed decommissioning technical specifications.
23 The staff had these documents under review hhen 24 with a planned completion date of late fall 1996.
WYth 25 the proposed amendment to NRC's decommissioning l
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regulations were published f4 July 29, 1996, the licensee 2
requested that the review of the decommissioning plan and 3
related documents be suspended, because of changes to the 4
regulations which eliminated the requirement to submit a 5
decommissioning plan, and the requirement that NRC review 6
the plan.
7 The 1996 regulations state that within two 8
years of permanently ceasing operations, the licensee must 9
submit a post-shutdown decommissioning activities report, 10 called a PSDAR, to the NRC with a copy to the affected 11 states.
12 The purpose of the PSDAR is to provide the NRC 13 staff with sufficient information to assure the proper NRC 14 oversight of any significant decommissioning activities, 15 to require the licensee to examine its plans for the 16 funding of the decommissioning activities, and to require 17 the licensee to examine its plans for decommissioning to 18 assure that the activities will not result in 19 environmental impacts that have not been previously 20 considered.
21 For licensees like Saxton, that had a 22 decommissioning plan under review by NRC, the regulations 23 state that the decommissioning plan is considered to be 24 the PSDAR.
25 The PSDAR must include a description of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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planned decommissioning activities, along with a schedule 2
for their accomplishment, an estimate of expected costs, 3
and a discussion that provides the reasons for concluding 4
that the environmental impacts associated with site 5
specific decommissioning activities will be bounded by l
6 previously issued environmental impact statements.
7 The 1996 regulations require the NRC to notice 8
the receipt of the PSDAR in the Federal Register, and make 9
it available to the public.
10 We are also required to hold a meeting in the l
11 vicinity of the nuclear site, to allow the licensee an 12 opportunity to present their plans for decommissioning of 13 the facility, to describe the role of the NRC in the 14 decommissioning of the facility, and to listen and respond 15 to questions from members of the public, in 16 This notice appeared pp the Federal Register 17 on December 19, 1996.
This is why we are here tonight.
18 The licensee is prohibited from undertaking 19 any major decommissioning activities until 90 days after 20 they submit the PSDAR.
Major decommissioning activities 21 are those activities that result in permanent removal of 22 major radioactive components, permanent modifications to 23 the containment, or result in dismantling components for 24 shipment that contain large amounts of radioactive 25 material.
We call it, containing greater than class C NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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waste.
2 Major components are those such as the reactor i
i 3
vessel, steam generators, pressurizers, large bore reactor 4
coolant system piping, and other large components that are 5
radioactive to a comparable degree.
I 6
The purpose of the 90 day period is to allow 7
sufficient time for the NRC staff to examine the PSDAR, to 8
publish notification of its receipt in the Federal i
9 Register, to hold a public meeting in the vicinity of the 10 facility, to discuss the licensee's plans, and to conduct I
11 any necessary safety inspections prior to the initiation 12 of major decommissioning activities, t
13 Under the 1996 rule the NRC staff is not 14 required to review and approve the PSDAR.
As I stated l
15 earlier, the PSDAR must contain a description of planned
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16 decommissioning activities-, along with a schedule for 17 their accomplishment, an estimate of expected costs, and a 18 discussion that provides the reasons for concluding that theenvironmentalimpactsassociated,yhfdhk'especific l
19 4
20 decommissioning activities, will be bounded by previously l
l 21 issued environmental impact statements.
22 The staff examines the PSDAR, and makes a 23 determination as to whether or not it provides the l
24 information required by the regulations.
In addition, the 25 staff considers comments received from members of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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public.
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If the information provided is not consistent 3
with the requirements of the 1996 rule, then the NRC staff 4
will require the licensee to amend their submittal, prior 5
to a31owing major decommissioning activities.
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If the licensee's submittal complies with the i
1 7
information requirements of the 1996 rule, then the NRC 8
staff will document this in a memorandum that will be 9
placed on the docket.
10 For the Saxton facility, the staff is in the I
11 process of comparing the information contained in the 12 decommissioning plan, which turned into the PSDAR, with 13 the informational requirements stated in the 1996 rule.
14 As I stated earlier, one of the reasons for-15 this meeting is to listen and respond to questions from 16 the public.
Your questions and comments tonight, as well 17 as any written comments, will be considered by the staff, 18 and addressed in a memorandum the staff will place on the 19 Saxton docket.
20 The staff hopes to complete determination of 21 the licensee's compliance with the regulations, and 22 considerations of public comments, by the end of March.
4 l
l 23 Although the Saxton PSDAR was considered to be 24 submitted more than 90 days ago, the licensee has not i
25 started any major decommissioning activities.
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This is because there is a requirement in the l
2 Saxton license that GPU shall not dismantle or dispose of l
3 the facility, or property occupied by the facility, 4
without prior approval of the Commission.
5 The technical specifications state that the 6
licensee is prohibited from taking any action which 7
results in alteration of the containment vessel, removal 8
of major radioactive components, or results in dismantling 9
of components.
10 These requirements can only be changed by 11 amendment of the facility license.
The licensee submitted 12 a request for license amendment to change these
[
13 requirements, and make other changes to the license and l
14 technical specifications to support decommissioning 15 activities.
Thelicenseealsosubmittedanhhhhhhsafety 16 17 analysis report, which described the current facility j
uMates 18 condition, and @ppAe the accident analysis, to include i
19 accident scenarios applicable to active decommissioning 20 conditions.
l l
the l
21 The NRC staf f currently has/ proposed changes l
22 to the facility license and technical specifications under 23 review.
The staff is also reviewing the environmental 24 report that was submitted with the decommissioning plan.
l 25 This environments: report is now being used to
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24 1
support the environmental assessment which the NRC will 9
2 prepare for decommissioning activities that will occur 3
after the license amendment is granted.
4 This license amendment request will be noticed 5
in the Federal Register, providing for a 30 day comment 5
6 period, and an opportunity to request a hearing.
7 The licensee's application and NRC 8
correspondence related to it, can be found in the local 9
public document room for Saxton, located in the Saxton 10 public library.
11 After approval of the license amendment, the 12 licensee could begin to perform major decommissioning 13 activities without specific NRC approval, using a process j
14 described in the Commissions regulations, contained in the 15 Code of Federal Regulations, Title 10, Section 50.59, also 16 know as 10 CFR.50.59.
17 10 CFR 50.59 allows licensees to take certain 18-actions without getting prior approval from the 19 Commission, unless the action requires a change in the 20 technical specifications, or raises an unreviewed safety 21 question.
22 The licensee has to perform a review to 23 determine if they can take the action they want without
{
24 prior NRC approval.
The review also contains 25 justification if the licensee determines that no I
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s 25 i
unreviewed safety question exists.
i 2
The licensee is required to maintain records j
3 of their reviews, and send in reports to NRC.
The l
4 licensee's process for performing these reviews, and the 5
reviews themselves, are carefully evaluated during NRC 6
inspections.
i 1
7 The new rule also imposed some additional i
8 requirements on decommissioning activities by the 9
licensee.
The licensee is prohibited from performing any 10 decommissioning activity that would foreclose the release 11 of the site for possible unrestricted use, result in 12 significant environmental impacts not previously reviewed, 13 or result in there no longer being reasonable assurance 14 that adequate funds will be available for decommissioning.
15 16 Once the staff has amended the license and 17 examined the PSDAR, the regulatory road is clear for the 18 licensee to begin decommissioning in earnest.
19 The NRC staff will be actively involved in on-i 20 site inspections, and reviewing licensee documentation of 21 the safety basis of their activities.
22 The NRC staff would continue to have interactions with the 1
23 public and the affected states.
24 Two years prior to the planned termination of license 25 the license, the licensee would submit a lit;tN#A6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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i I 26 1
termination plan.
The license termination plan will 2
include a site characterization, identification of 3
remaining dismantlement activities, plans for site
{
4 remediation, detailed plans for the site termination
)
l 5
radiation survey, a description of the end-use of the 6
site, if restricted, an updated site-specific estimate of 7
remaining decommissioning costs, and if needed, a 8
supplement to the environmental report, describing any new 9
information or significant environmental change associated 10 with the licensee's proposed termination activities.
11 The NRC staff will notice the receipt of the 12 license termination plan in the Federal Register, make the 13 plan available fer public comment, and afford an
)
14 opportunity for a hearing on the plan.
15 The NRC will also hold a public meeting in the 16 vicinity of the site, to allow the licensee to explain the 17 license termination plan to the public, to discuss the 18 remaining NRC activities associated with terminating the 19 license, and to allow the public to ask questions.
20 NRC approval of the license termination plan 21 will be made by license amendment, which would authorize 22 implementation of the license termination plan.
23 The licensee then continues to clean up the 24 site and perform the final radiation survey.
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l 27 l
1 process, and retains the option of performing our own 2
confirmatory survey of the site.
3 The Commission shall terminate the license if 4
it determines that the remaining activities have been i
C 5
performed in accordance with the approved license 6
termination plan, and the terminal radiation-survey, and 7
the associated documentation demonstrates that the 8
facility and site are suitable for release.
9 So this is the decommissioning process that 10 Saxton will follow.
There are a few aspects of this 11 process that are unique to Saxton.
Saxton will probably 12 be the first license taken to termination under these new 13 regulations.
14 Your questions and your comments are always 15 welcome.
Here is the mailing address, phone number, fax l6 number, and electronic mail address for Tom and myself.
17 I would now like to introduce you to John 18 White from NRC hegion 1, who will tell you about the 19 decommissioning inspection process, and what will happen 20 at Saxton when decommissioning activity starts.
i 21 After John speaks, we will be happy to take 22 questions about our presentations.
23 MR. WHITE:
Good evening.
My name is John 24 White, I'm Chief of.the Radiation Safety Branch, NRC 25 Region 1.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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28 1-I'd like to take this opportunity to re-2 introduce you to Tom Dragoun.
Relative to the' inspection 3
process that NRC conducts, has conducted in the past here 4
at Saxton, and will conduct in the future, Mr. Tom Dragoun 5
is the principal inspector.
He is a senior project 6
scientist in the NRC Region 1, and he is responsible for 7
the coordination and the conduct of most of the inspection 8
activities that will be conducted here at Saxton.
t 9
Just a couple of minutes to explain the 10 inspection process that we intend for Saxton.
Relative to 11 decommissioning, the purpose of our inspection process,is 12 generally to obtain information, by direct observation, 13 and to directly verify that the licensee is, in fact, 14 conducting decommissioning activities in a safe manner.
15 That is our principal concern, and our i
16 principal objective relative to our inspection program.
17 In most facilities that undergo 18 decommissioning, spent fuel is part of the process, and is 19 a major aspect of our inspection effort, because this fuel 20 is still highly radioactive, and is remaining on-site in a 21 spent fuel pool.
22 In the case of Saxton -- in the case of 23.
Saxton, this is not a factor.
As Al pointed out, the, fuel 24 at Saxton was removed from site some 25 years ago, so 25 there is no fuel remaining at Saxton.
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The other part of our inspection process is to 2
verify and validate that all the activities that the 3
licensee conducts relative to decommissioning of the site, 4
are done in strict accordance with our rules and 5
regulations, with the license conditions that are imposed, 6
and with the commitments that the licensee has made to the 7
NRC relative to decommissioning.
8 Our procedures for conducting an inspection 9
are formalized, and are directed to a number of different 10 activities.
The ones that are displayed here are some of 11 those activities.
They 12 7he include, but are not limited to these 13 activities, management and organizational effectiveness of 14 the operating organization at Saxton.
We also look at the 15 licensee's ability to conduct self assessment and audits, 16 and identify their own problems, and correct those 17 problems.
18 We also look at design control, 19 decommissioning control, work process control.
An 20 important aspect of this is an activity called 50.59, that 21 is in reference to 10 CFR 50.59, which allows the licensee 22 to make changes in the facility as is currently described 23 in their safety analysis report, and make a determination 24 that prior to making such changes, that they do not --
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30 1
question.
2 So our inspection activity will be directed to i
3 looking at the licensee's process and their conduct of i
4 these types of evaluations.
5 We will also be looking at maintenance and 6
r veillance activities that the licensee needs to 7
- c. f-at.
Decommissioning of a facility that is 8
sutaminated is a rather large, health physics event.
9 It involves radiological controls, radiation 10 protection, and so a large aspect of our program is 11 devoted to the licensee's ability to control the exposure 12 to the people who work there, control the exposure to the 13 environment, and to impact on the environment, and to effluents 14 monitor and control any WL6tVW466 that are caused by this 15 decommissioning activity.
16 And relative to that, to verify that their effluent 17
- ffA&eMt monitoring and control program is in accordance 18 with our rules and regulations.
19 As we conduct inspection activities at Saxton, I
20 our inspections are performance based.
We will always be 21 looking at how the licensee is performing.
22 If we identify declining trends in this 23 performance, we will rapidly identify that to a licensee, 24 and we will expect rapid response on the licensee's part, 25 in terms of identifying the root causes for those NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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31 1
declining trends, and effective corrective action to 2
ameliorate that process.
3 The other part of our inspection program will i
4 be to assure that we have allocated the correct resources t
5 to inspecting the decom:nissioning process.
While Tom is 6
the principal inspector, and will be conducting most of 7
these inspections at the facility, depending upon the 8
activities that are conducted, there may be need to 9
involve other NRC inspectors or other NRC specialists to 10 review certain activities that are being conducted at the 11 facility.
12 The specialists may include fire protection 13 specialists, health physics specialists, occupational 14 safety and health specialists, and any other contractors 15 that we may see or need to be employed, or need to be 16 engaged in the inspection process, and Tom will be 17 coordinating those activities.
18 So that is, in a nutshell, what our inspection 19 program is about, and what we intend to accomplish 20 relative to the Saxton decommissioning activity.
21 Thank you.
22 MR. ADAMS:
Questions?
23 MR. NOVAK:
My name is Karl Novak, N-O-V-A-K, 24 as required by the requirement here, first name Karl, K-A-25 R-L.
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32 1
You talked about inspections.
Essentially, 2
are you going to have people on the site while they are 3
working?
I mean, somebody from NRC o'n the site while they 4
are working on this, during the eight hour day, or twelve 5
hour day, or whatever it might be?
6 MR. WHITE:
We will not have a resident 7
inspector on the site.
Our inspection program is a 8
program that will be looking at those activities that were 9
displayed here in the view graph, but we will also be 10 conducting activities of major component dismantlement and 11 removal.
12 Any major significant activity that a licensee 13 does relative to their decommissioning plan, we will have i
14 an inspector on site to review that.
Shipping of rad 15 material that is an outcome of this decommissioning 16 process, we will review that, also.
17 But we will not have a resident inspector 18 assigned to this site.
So our inspections will be 19 conducted over a period of time, to just give you a base 20 line for thinking about it, this may be -- you know, to 21 begin with, as the licensee progresses through initiating 22 this decommissioning, we may be up here, this year, maybe 23 four to five times, to look at various activities.
But we 24 will not have a resident on sitre.
25 MR. NOVAK:
But you will be here if anything NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISt.AND AVE., N W.
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5 33 1
is put -- is taken out and is put on a truck, or whatever 2
you are going to put it on for transportation, is that 3
true?
l 4
MR. WHITE:
Any major activity that takes 5
place, we plan to be here.
6 MR. NOVAK:
You plan -- you will be here, or 7
you plan to be here?
j 8
MR. WHITE:
For major component removal, major 9
shipping activities, it is our plan to be here, to have an 10 inspector here.
Tom, you want to make a comment?
11 MR. NOVAK:
You didn't answer my question.
i 12 MR. DRAGOUN:
We have a telephone conference, 13 once a week, every Wednesday at 1:30.
The conference 14 involves NRC headquarters, the region, people at the site.
15 And what we do is we review the activities of the past 16 week, and the activities for the coming week.
17 And during that conference we discuss 18 essentially what has been done in terms of major work, and l
19 what is planned to be done in terms of major work.
So 1
20 although we are not on the site, we are in quite frequent i
21 communications with the site.
22 MR. NOVAK:
Thank you.
One of the primary i
23 things I'm very concerned is the transportation of this 24 material.
Have you planned to.take it through Bedford 25 County?
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34 1
I maan, what are your routes of removal of 2
this material.
3 MR. WHITE:
The licensee has not advised us of 4
what their routing is, but we will inspect that when the 5
time comes.
6 MR. NOVAK:
Is there any involvement of NRC 7
after it leaves the site, or is it just sort of every man 8
for himself?
9 MR. DRAGOUN:
Let me address your question i
10 just a minute ago.
I have already reviewed their program j
11 on site for the control of shipments from the site.
Part i
12 vf that was driven by the fact that the NRC regulations, 13 and the Department of Transportation regulations changed 14 this past year, in April, to bring this country in line 15 with the rest of the world, essentially.
~
16 And during that review of the program, I was 17 accompanied by a representative from the Commonwealth, a t
18 fellow by the name of Ken Singh, because they were i
r 4
19 interested in -- the state is also interested in s
20 transportation of material, obviously, through the state.
i s
21 And the results of that were, everything looks l
1 22 fine.
Now, they had not made a major shipment yet.
The 4
j 23 last shipment was in 1994 when they took quite a bit of i
24 dirt off-site, and that was observed.
l
)
25 Their next shipment is going to be some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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35 1
asbestos that they removed from the inside.
This is j
2 mildly contaminated with radioactive material.
That is
{
l 3
prepared to go.
And while we are here, for this meeting, 4
that is one of the subjects that we are going to review, 5
take a look at their preparations, the paperwork, what 6
arrangements they made, and so on.
7 The state fellow was supposed to be here, but 8
couldn't make it because of the condition of the roads.
9 MR. NOVAK:
Let's go on with transportation.
10 How about the emergency response management team; have 11 they been trained to take care of accidents that possibly 12 might happen along the way with regards to these 13 shipments?
14 MR. DRAGOUN:
Well, the emergency response 15 depends on what happens.
The truck driver is always given 16 training when they take the shipment.
And of course it 17 depende on what kind of shipment it is, just how hazardous 18 its classification, in other words.
19 That notification is made by the truck driver, 20 if he has a problem, and if he is able to make it.
He 21 calls phone numbers that are given to him by GPU.
- That, 22 in turn, turns on an appropriate response.
23 The NRC does not have a response team.
24 However, the various states on the path to the disposal 25 sites do have response teams.
But the training that they NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIB6RS 1321 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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36 i
get, I'm not familiar with that.
2 MR. NOVAK:
So essentially the response team 3
that we have in this county really hasn't had any 4
training, is that what you are telling me?
5 MR. DRAGOUN:
No, I didn't say that.
6 MR. NOVAK:
Does anybody know the answer to 7
that?
8 MR. DRAGOUN:
The transportation of material 9
on the public roads is a function of the Department of 10 Transportation.
The NRC has regulations about preparing 11 shipments. -Once a shipment rolls off a site, the DOT 12 rules kick in.
13 And exactly what the DOT requires for a local 14 response teams, I'm not sure.
t 15 MR. NOVAK:
I see.
Then, possibly what we i
16 should have this evening is a representative from the 17 Department of Transportation, is that what you are telling i
18 me?
l 19 MR. DRAGOUN:
I think to answer your questions 20 on over the road transportation, yes, that is correct.
21 MR. NOVAK:
So there are no regulations from 22 the NRC with regards to the transportation of waste from 23 nuclear sites, from one point to another, is that what you 24 are saying?
25 MR. DRAGOUN:
There are NRC regulations for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W.
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s 37 1
the preparing of the shipment, how it has to bo packagsd, 2
the container that it is in.
For instance, containers 3
have to pass tests where they have to be filled up with 4
wet sand and raised to a certain height and dropped on the h, on concrete, and stuff like that.
5 6
We have regulations for that, yes, we do.
So 7
preparing the material for shipment, and then the 8
paperwork like the notifications that have to be made if 9
there is a problem, that is all done before the material 10 leaves the site, and various protection measurements, the 11 shipment has to be surveyed to make sure that the dose 12 rates coming off of it meet DOT requirements.
13 MR. NOVAK:
Well, I guess really basically 14 what we need then, to close the circle on this, and have 15 some kind of an input with regards to what is going to 16 take place in the way of training of our emergency 17 management people here in this county, and also what, if 18 they are notified when these shipments go, and what the 19 requirements are from the Department of Transportation.
20 Because I think without that closing of that 21 loop, I think we are sort of, you know, left out here 22 without sufficient information on what is going to happen 23 here in the county, and what possibly might happen.
24 So we make sure that we have the safety and 25 the health of the people in this county taken care of.
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l l
38 s
1 Are there any expectations as far as the route 2
of movement; is that all up to the company, or do you get 3
involved in that?
4 MR. DRAGOUN:
Well, some shipments, depending a
5 on their classification, some are controlled route 6
quantities.
In other words, there are certain roadways 7
that are allowed and certain that are not allowed.
But i
8 exactly what the -- what those control routes are in this 9
area, I'm not -- I don't know at this point.
10 It is possible, like when they take out the 11 reactor vessel itself, they are planning to ship that
{
12 intact, filled with concrete.
That will probably be most I
13 probably a route control quantity.
14 And so that will -- and not only is there
)
15 avoiding population areas and so on, but there is also i
i 16 things like overhangs on the road, and bridge capacities, 17 and a lot of other considerations.
18 MR. NOVAK:
Where is this waste going?
19 MR. DRAGOUN:
That is not our --
20 MR. NOVAK:
That is not your responsibility?
21 MR. DRAGOUN:
Right.
22 MR. ADAMS:
You can ask that of the licensee 23 after their presentation.
l 24 MR. DRAGOUN:
But there are two general 25 facilities available in the country, right now.
One of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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j i
39
[
1 them is in Utah, in Clyde, Utah, and the other is in 2
Barnwell, South Carolina.
i 1
i 3
MR. NOVAK:
I think I've exhausted all my i
4 questions, thank you.
5 MR. ADAMS:
Any other questions?
6 MS. GIBSON:
Mine are rauch simpler.
My name 7
is Alicia Gibson.
My question is, when you were going 8
over the decommissioning, I'd like to know whose idea or 9
who was responsible for submitting the license, was it the 10 people in Saxton that said they wanted the nuclear power f
i 11 plant dismantled, and then they went ahead and got 12 together and submitted that the license should be formed, 13 or was it like the NRC, or was it the --
14 MR. ADAMS:
Is your question, who decides it 15 is time to decommission?
16 MS. GIBSON:
Yes.
Who decided that the i
1 17 containment was going to be dismantled?
18 MR. ADAMS:
That is a licensee decision.
19 MS. GIBSON:
Who is the licensee?
20 MR. ADAMS:
Saxton Nuclear Experimental 21 Corporation and GPU Nuclear are joint licensees.
22 MS. GIBSON:
So they decided, they kind of 23 came in and took a look at the plant and decided that it 24 should be removed?
25 MR. ADAMS:
Yes.
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40 1
MS. GIBSON:
And then when it goes to South 1
2 Carolina, I just read in the newspaper that it goes to a 3
river.
Are they going to take the stuff and dump it in 4
the river, or are they going to take and put it someplace 5
very safe, so that it doesn't cause any harm to the air, 6
the water, the land?
7 MR. ADAMS:
You mean South Carolina?
8 MS. GIBSON:
Yes.
i 9
MR. ADAMS:
That is a licensed facility for 10 disposal of nuclear waste.
11 MS. GIBSON:
But do they put it in the river?
12 MR. ADAMS:
No, it goes in the ground.
And 13 I'm not an expert on this, but --
14 MS. GIBSON:
Right, but it goes in the ground.
15 Why did it say river in the newspaper, like they were 16 sending it to the river?
17 MR. ADAMS:
I didn't see the newspaper.
Oh, i
18 okay.
You are talking about Savannah River?
19 MS. GIBSON:
Yes, is it the town or the river?
20 MR. ADAMS:
That is a location, that is the 21 location in South Carolina where the U.S. Department of 22 Energy has a facility.
23 MS. GIBSON:
All right.
24 MR. ADAMS:
And in the 1970s, the spent fuel 25 from the facility went to the Savannah River facility.
It NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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s 41 I
I wasn't dumped in a river or anything like that.
2 MS. GIBSON:
That is just like a town?
l 3
MR. ADAMS:
That is the name of the town, the 4
place is Savannah River.
l 5
MS. GIBSON:
Okay.
That answers my questions, 6
thanks.
7 MR. FULLER:
My name is Ernest Fuller.
I 8
Following up on the transportation question, if you folks, i
9 as I understand it, would allow them for instance, to take j
1 10 the reactor vessel out and take it out of the containment i
i 11 vessel, have it sitting outside, but then they might --
12 South Carolina might decide to close their site again, in i
13 which case the reactor vessel would be sitting out in the 14 flood plain.
15 How is that possibility dealt with in terms of 15 letting them go ahead without having a clear 17 transportation and disposal plan?
18 MR. DRAGOUN:
Well, you have to keep in mind 19 that there are many things that have to be coordinated to 20 actually have this happen.
21 Now, one of the areas the NRC gets involved 22 in, we would have to approve it as a package, and that has 23 not been done yet.
It kind of relates to the other 24 gentleman's question, what is the NRC's responsibility?
25 And our responsibility, essentially, is to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE. N W.
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42 i
1 1
make sure that tne container or the package that is being l
2 used to ship the material, meets certain criteria.
j 3
At this point GPU has not come to the NRC and l
4 asked for approval of the container, essentially the l
5 vessel to be shipped.
6 MR. FULLER:
But you are giving, i
i 7
theoretically, assuming you approve their current plan, l
l 8
you are giving them permission to take it out of the l
9 containment vessel, and put it out on the ground somewhere 10 nearby, according to their plan.
L i
l 11 They can do that without having prepared any -
i 12
- you know, having a guarantee of where it is going to go 13 or how it is going to be transferred?
f 14 MR. DRAGOUN:
We haven't reviewed their plan, l
15 yet, and I don't believe that they've got one, or if they i
16 have one, they haven't shown it to us.
17 But clearly, there is a review process that l
18 has to go on, the 50.59 process, to make sure that there 19 is no unreviewed safety questions.
And taking the vessel 20 out and having it stay on site for some period of time, i
l 21 being subjected to flooding or something like that, and if 22 that becomes an unreviewed safety question, then they 23 would have to come back to the NRC.
)
24 MR. MASNIK:
Mike Masnik.
This process of
)
25 certifying this container is quite an elaborate process, I
l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 j*
43 L
t j
1 and they have to assure that it can meet a certain number i
l 2
of tests.
1 j
i l
3 Additionally, this sort of activity has been i
i i
4 going on quite frequently with steam generators.
And a I
E number of them have been moved from the Northeist.
They
]
6 just recently moved some out west.
]
h 7
Sure, it is possible that after they remove i
i t
I 8
this from the vessel, or from the containment, that i
L l
9 Barnwell_could close, if that is indeed where they were j
10 going to plan to sh,p it.
i j
11 But the licensee would be required to 1
j 12 safeguard this reactor vessel such that, you know, it 1
13 would not be affected by high water or any other natural -
i
)
14 l
l 15 MR. FULLER:
But wouldn't it make sense to get s
5 16 the whole thing planned before you started?
k 17 MR. MASNIK:
Well, certainly, certainly.
And i
18 yes, that is --
l 19 MR. FULLER:
So are you going to make sure l
20 that they have the whole thing planned before they start?
l 21 MR. MASNIK:
Before they go, we do a review 22 from the beginning to the end.
23 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
So before they have i
f 24 permission, I thought from what was said earlier, they've 1
25 submitted their plan more than 90 days ago.
They have a i
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.m
44 1
tech spec change coming up.
I 2
The tech spec change does not talk about where 3
the reactor vessel is going to go.
If you folks approve f
1 1
4 that tech spec change, the scenario I presented is 5
possible.
6 Does that mean that you are going to wait to 7
approve the tech spec change until they've provided the 8
transportation plan?
9 MR. MASNIK:
No.
You have to understand that 10 the tech spec change allows them to start the process.
11 MR. FULLER:
Right.
12 MR. MASNIK:
Moving a package like that 13 requires an additional review.
And that additional review 14 will take some time, it is an additional submittal to the 15 NRC, and it is somewhat independent from the license 16 amendment process.
17 It is a certification process to certify the 18 reactor vessel as a shipping container, basically.
19 MR. FULLER:
Okay, so --
20 MR. MASNIK:
So it is another process.
21 MR. FULLER:
So basically you are saying, as 22 far as the NRC is concerned, they are assuming they get 23 their tech spec change for other reasons, not related to 24 transportation, you will let them take the reactor vessel 25 and the other internals out of the containment vessel, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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45 1
stick t hem out in the flood plain, and wait for whenever 2
they decide to get together a transportation and disposal 3
plan, and you will deal with approving that at that later 4
date?
5 MR. MASNIK:
No, I'm not saying that.
6 MR. FULLER:
No?
Okay.
I'm confused.
7 MR. MASNIK:
The approval process -- the 8
approval process for the shipping container occurs prior 9
to the movement of this -- of this -- the vessel.
10 MR. FULLER:
Prior to movement off-site, 11 MR. MASNIK:
No -- well, yes.
It can't move 12 off-site.
13 MR. FULLER:
Right.
14 MR. MASNIK:
But normally what happens is that 15 they are not going to move that vessel until they get the 16 approval from the NRC as a package.
17 MR. FULLER:
Is that a requirement that you 18 have, or is that just up to the whim of GPU Nuclear?
19 MR. MASNIK:
Well, it is -- there are a lot of 20 interplays, here.
I mean, we wouldn't allow them to 21 remove the vessel from the reactor building unless it was 22 in a condition that we could assure that it could be 23 safely stored on the site.
So, I mean it wouldn't happen l
24 that way.
25 MR. FULLER:
Well, they've spoken of, you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS l
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know, taking it and going off quickly, and --
2 MR. ADAMS:
Mr. Fuller, I think we discussed 3
these 50.59 safety reviews that have to be done.
I think 4
it would be very difficult to do this review successfully 5
if the end point of the review was that this is going to 6
sit outside indefinitely.
7 I'm not saying it is an impossibility, but if 8
it is going to end up not moving off the site, the 9
licensee has to show that they can pass the 50.59 test, 10 that there is no unreviewed cafety question here.
l 11 MR. FULLER:
But that is after the fact?
12 MR. ADAMS:
No, they have to do this -- this 13 50.59 has to be done before the action is taken.
14 MR. FULLER:
But you folks don't review it 15 until later, so they might have already gone through and 16 done this, because they thought it was okay, and then you 17 come back and say --
18 MR. ADAMS:
Well, no, that is why we talk to 19 them from week to week.
That 50.59 review, we would, 20 through the inspection process, look at it.
21 MR. THONUS:
For the convenience of the Court 22 Reporter, I'm Lee Thonus.
23 They can't just set a package of radioactive 24 material outside someplace, regardless of whether they are 1
25 going to ship it or not, radioactive material has to be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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controlled in a proper radioactive material storage area.
2 That is part of the code of Federal Regulations.
3 They have to have it someplace that is locked 4
and controlled.
They can't just set it on the ground 5
outside someplace.
6 MR. FULLER:
That seems to be all they said in 7
the plan that they had.
There may be more detail that 8
they haven't made public in the plan, but they just speak 9
of taking it out with a crane, and sticking it in a lay-10 down area.
That is what the plan says.
11 MR. ADAMS:
The PSDAR, it requires a schedule 12 of major activities, it doesn't require the details.
13 The details would have to be filled in as part 14 of the licensee performing the safety review required by 15 50.59.
At that point, that is where all the details would 16 be filled in by the licensee, and the licensee has to 17 determine that they don't have an unreviewed safety 18 question, or that it doesn't create a need for a tech spec 19 amendment.
20 If they can't pass those tests, then it can't 21 be done using 50.59, and it has to -- it becomes a 22 licensing issue.
23 MR. FULLER:
Okay, but that is up to them to 24 make that determination under the current rules.
You 25 would review that later, but initially it is up to them?
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MR. ADAMS:
It is their responsibility to do I
2 the 50.59 review if they want to take the action.
No
.i 3
50.59 review, no action.
Not only do they have to do the 4
review, but you have to successfully -- you have to come j
5 to a successful conclusion.
6 MR. FULLER:
Another question.
What are the 7
decommissioning standards thac they are going to actually 8
be using?
I know there is a current guide that is decades 9
old, and there are some proposed regulations that unless 10 they've been approved recently --
11 MR. ADAMS:
Do you mean release criteria?
12 MR. FULLER:
Yes.
13 MR. ADAMS:
As we speak right now, the release 14 criteria that are in place right now, are the ones that 15 you refer to.
Reg guide 1.86, which discusses levels of 16 contamination on components, and there is a 5 micro R per 17 hour1.967593e-4 days <br />0.00472 hours <br />2.810847e-5 weeks <br />6.4685e-6 months <br /> above background, three foot from surface of 18 interest 19 Those are the current requirements, today.
As 20 you mentioned, there is a proposed rule making that may 21 change that.
They will have to follow, at the time of 22 termination, they will have to follow whatever regulations 23 are in effect at that point in time.
24 MR. FULLER:
Now, as I understand it, the new 25 regulations are somewhat more strict than the current NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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ones, at least as currently thought.
And GPU has, in 2
their plan, said they are going to follow the new 3
regulations.
4 Are you saying, do they have to do what they 5
said in the plan, or can they do whatever happens to be 6
the law at the time they take out a particular package?
7 MR. ADAMS:
Take a particular package where?
8 MR. FULLER:
Well, off-site, or release the 9
site.
10 MR. ADAMS:
Well, release of site, license 11 termination, at the time they apply for -- if we terminate 12 the license on July 15th, 2000, that is the regulations 13 they are going to have to meet at that time, at the time i
14 we terminate the license.
Am I right, Gene?
l 15 MR. HOLLER:
That is correct.
16 MR. FULLER:
So even if the NRC still hasn't 17 changed the regulations, the fact that GPU in their plan 18 says they are going to meet the new standards, if those 19 aren't in effect, you would not require them to meet what 20 they said in their plan?
21 MR. ADAMS:
GPU has to meet the regulations 22 that are in effect at the time of license termination.
23 You are talking about the decommissioning plan.
You have 24 to realize that now the decommissioning plan has turned 25 into a PSDAR.
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MR. FULLER:
Right.
i 2
MR. ADAMS:
Which is a different type of l
3 document.
l 4
MR. FULLER:
Right, and I'm trying to find 5
out, you know, whether that actually controls anything, or 6
it is just something on a piece of paper.
I mean, they've 7
made various commitments in that plan, and I'd like to 8
know whether those are things that you and the NRC, 9
assuming that you've decided that it is acceptable, are 10 going to hold them to it.
i 11 MR. HOLLER:
The licensee submitted its 12 decommissioning plan which is now the PSDAR, then under 13 the current decommissioning rules, the staff of the NRC 14 reviewed it to see if it comported with those rules.
t 15 Mr. Fuller has raised the question, what if 16 the licensee has indicated that it will do something above 17 what the regulations may require?
May they change those f
18 in the future?
19 Part of the new rule that addresses the PSDAR, 20 the post shutdown decommissioning activities report, i
21 requires the licensee to inform the NRC, which again would j
22 be a public document that will be available on the docket, 23 that they intend to change their PSDAR, their post i
24 shutdown decommissioning activities report.
25 So in sum, my answer to you is, if the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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licensee has submitted commitments, or what they plan to 2
do, they meet or exceed the current regulations are, 3
changes of those would have to go to the NRC as part of
[
t 4
the process, and then dealt with accordingly.
5 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
But as I understand what 6
you are saying, if your rules haven't changed, you 7
certainly would not be able to -- as an example, say the 8
current rule is you go to one, and the new rule, they've 9
committed to go to half, and the rule that it is one 10 doesn't change in the next five years, and they come in 11 and say, well, we want to go to one rather than the half 12 that we said that we would go to, you don't have any 13 reason to say no to them, and therefore they would be able 14 to use the less restrictive standard.
15 MR. HOLLER:
Except, and perhaps Mr. Fuller, I 16 think you've given us a good example of why the current 17 rule takes the approach it does.
We are talking about the 18 termination of the license, how they would leave the site 19 at termination.
20 If I may reiterate some of what Mr. Adams 21 presented, the way the rule is set up now, when it comes 22 to termination of the license, the licensee submits its 23 survey plan, what it still requires to be dismantled and 24 several other things.
25 That presents an opportunity, one, it is NEAL R. GROSS
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presented to the public; two, there is an opportunity for 2
comment, and more importantly, before that termination 3
plan can become effective, it is made effective by an 4.
amendment to the license.
and so therefore, there would 5
also be an opportunity for a hearing.
6 And so, in sum, I'm saying to you, situations 7
such as you've described, where there was a change, and 8
before that license can be terminated, there is an 9
opportunity both for public comment, and to request a 10 Hearing on the final termination plan by interested 11 members of the public.
12 Have I addressed your question, Mr. Fuller?
13 MR. FULLER:
I think so.
Not with what I 14 would like, but you've addressed it.
15 One specific question I had, in their 16 responses to your questions when it was still a 17 decommissioning plan, that they sent in in July, on page 18 32 there was a very specific commitment by GPU that they 19 would meet the 4 millirem per year EPA water limit, even 20 though that wasn't in current regulations, no matter what.
21 22 As I understand it, then, they really wouldn't 23 be held to that at this point, unless the new standards go 24 in?
25 MR. DRAGOUN:
Bath the EPA and the NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISt.AND AVE., N W.
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53 1
regulate affluents.
What you are talking about is a TEDE 2
exposure, via the water pathway, only.
l 3
MR. FULLER:
Right.
i l
4 MR. DRAGOUN:
Now, we have an understanding, a 5
memorandum of understanding with the EPA, and that -- also 6
for affluents, like if something was going to go out the 7
stack, it has to meet the clean air act, all right?
8 We have an understanding with the EPA that we 9
will enforce their regulations, but it is not an NRC 10 regulation.
Does that answer your question?
11 MR. FULLER:
No, my question was whether they 12 would be legally bound to that no matter what you and the 13 EPA decide in the future.
14 MR. DRAGOUN:
They have to meet the four 15 millirem dose, TEDE dose by the water pathway.
That is an 16 EPA regulation.
They don't have the option of not doing 17 it.
18 MR. FULLER:
Right.
Currently, but that is 19 also up for potential change, as I understand it.
And my 20 question is, whether what they've written in their plan, 21 where they commit to something specific, if it is not 22 required by law or regulation, are they going to have to 23 follow their plan, or are they going to be allowed to do 24 whatever the regulations allow?
25 MR. DRAGOUN:
They put this in their plan, but NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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54 1
it is a law, it is r.he law of the land.
2 MR. FULLER:
Currently, but it is also up for 3
potential change.
4 MR. DRAGOUN:
Well, that may be so, then that 5
will change.
They put it in their plan, but it exists as 6
an EPA requirement, whether it is in their plan or not, 1
7 and this also applies to every other facility undergoing 8
decommissioning.
9 MR. FULLER:
Did the NRC give prior written 10 approval for the construction of the decommissioning 11 building that was built out there this year, or last year?
12 MR. ADAMS:
The decommissioning support 13 facility?
14 MR. FULLER:
Yes.
15 MR. ADAMS:
Yes, that was approved by license 16 amendment.
17 MR. FULLER:
I think I should let someone else 18 ask questions if they want to.
I do have some others.
19 MR. ADAMS:
Mr. Fuller, during the break 20 please come talk to me.
21 MR. TYDEMAN:
My name is Jim Tydeman, and I 22 live about a half mile from here.
23 To follow up on the transportation question, 24 there is talk that after -- anything radioactive that is 25 going to be shipped off-site, after it leaves the site it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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is going to be primarily the responsibility of the 1
2 Department of Transportation; their regulations will 3
basically --
4 MR. DRAGOUN:
I guess I'm sorry if I didn't 5
make myself clear.
f 6
The NRC has regulations for preparing the 7
shipment.
8 MR. TYDEMAN:
Right, I understand.
9 MR. DRAGOUN:
To go on the road.
Once it is 10 on the road, Department of Transportation regulations kick 11 in.
Once it gets to the destination, though, the NRC l
12 rules kick in again.
13 It is a transfer of material from one licensee i
14 to another licensee, so the NRC is involved at both ends
.i is of the process, but not in the middle.
15 MR. TYDEMAN:
Okay.
My question is, we are r
17 talking the U.S. Department of Transportation, Penn DOT, f
l f
I 18 or both?
As far as Department of Transportation.
1 I
i 19 MR. DRAGOUN:
The Federal DOT, Department of i
I 20 Transportation, yes, 49 CFR.
21 MR. TYDEMAN:
Is the Pennsylvania Department i
22 of Transportation also formally involved in this?
23 MR. ADAMS:
We don't know, sorry.
t 24 MR. TYDEMA'i:
I have a number of questions i
25 regarding the decommissioning plan that I would like to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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submit in writing, and I want to make sure -- there is a 2
90 day period in which, or a 30 day period, in which I can 3
make comments or ask questions of the decommissioning 4
plan.
5 When does that kick in, when does that 6
actually start, and to whom should I address those 7
questions?
8 MR. ADAMS:
The Federal Register Notice had 9
the formal address for submitting comments or questions.
10 I don't believe the Federal Register Notice had a specific 11 date we would accept comments until, but we are going to i
12 be doing, you know, looking at the PSDAR to bring this to l
13 closure.
14 So it was noticed in the middle of December, 15 so it has been about a month, now.
So I'd say probably 16 anything I get within the next 30 days, I can sit down and 17 think about.
I 18 MR. TYDEMAN:
I have one question I'd like to 19 ask right now about the safety analysis report.
In that, 20 GPU states that they didn't consider that it was likely 21 for the vessel to rupture as a result of a material 22 handling accident, so there was no consideration given to 23 that, what the potential for an accident like that would 24 be.
25 At this point in time, can you say whether you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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would concur with that?
l t
2 MR. ADAMS:
I can't.
Our review of that, 3
well, what we are reviewing is the technical specification 4
application, and in that it refers to the safety analysis l
t 5
done on the SAR, that is under review at the moment, and I 6
can't tell you what conclusions we've reached at this 7
point.
It is still -- anything we are doing is still 8
preliminary.
9 MR. TYDEMAN:
Okay.
Would that be something 10 that you will review, though?
11 MR. ADAMS:
We look at all -- you know, we 12 look at all aspects of the safety analysis that is i.
13 submitted with the support, the technical specification 14 changes.
i 15 MR. TYDEMAN:
Okay, that is it.
(
16 MR. DRAGOUN:
Don't go away.
I want to make l
17 an amendment to your original question about the 18 transportation.
19 Once GPU ships some material and goes on the 20 road, although the DOT regulations kick in as soon as it t
21 gets on a public road, the licensee, GPU, does not lose 22 responsibility for that material, okay?
i 23 MR. TYDEMAN:
We hope they don't lose it.
24 MR. DRAGOUN:
Pardon?
l 25 MR. TYDEMAN:
We hope they don't lose it.
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58 1
MR. DRAGOUN:
Yes, for instance, if it gets 2
lost, if it doesn't arrive at its destination, if there is 3
an accident on the road, the truck goes off the road in 4
bad weather or something like that, it is still GPU's i
5 responsibility, okay?
l 6
So I didn't want to give the impression that 7
there is -- that once it passes the doorway, you know, 8
they are not accountable anymore, that is not true.
9 The rules, though, that apply to that I
10 situation for over the road transportation, come from 11 DOT.
12 MR. TYDEMAN:
Okay.
13 MS. ICKES:
Before we take our scheduled 14 break, we have another speaker who has registered.
Mr.
15 Baker, do you have questions at this time?
16 MR. BAKER:
After the break or now?
17 MS. ICKES:
We will do your questions now, 18 because you are registered.
This will be the final 19 question before the break, there will be opportunity, 20 again, after Mr. Kuehn from GPU Nuclear.
21 MR. BAKER:
First I want to thank Perry Carmel 22 and Joe --
23 MS. ICKES:
Would you please identify 24 yourself?
25 MR. BAKER:
Excuse me, Gene Baker, we have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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Bedford County carpenters on the project which pay their 2
taxes, and quite frankly, in Liberty Township and Pacific, 3
we are Bedford County.
l 4
We have like 40 carpenters in this county, and 5
I would think that the -- Ms. Ickes and Dick Rice and 6
Ebersol, I hope you people back us on stressing the people 7
here on local people, you know, they are paying their 8
taxes in their cars and their gas and the restaurants and 9
the whole thing.
10 And my question, then, is I understand that l
11 you people plan on bringing some of your people from the i
12 other plants to do a lot of this work, and --
f 13 MR. ADAMS:
That question is probably best to 14 be held after the GPU --
15 MR. BAKER:
After the other people talk?
16 MR. ADAMS:
Yes.
I 17 MR. HOLLER:
I think Mr. Adams is telling you, 18 the question is best addressed to the GPU Nuclear 19 representatives, the licensees on those types of plans, 20 and who they plan to --
21 MR. ADAMS:
You are not asking the NRC a 22 question, are you?
23 MR. BAKER:
No.
24 MR. ADAMS:
Okay.
25 MR. BAKER:
Do I need to talk later?
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/
1 MR. ADAMS:
Yes.
And if you have a question 2
for the licensee, after the licensee gives their 3
presentation.
4 MR. BAKER:
Okay.
Mine is strictly a labor 5
issue, a local labor issue.
And, by the way, I did --
6 when I placed four carpenters in there, there was two 7
democrats and two republicans.
8 (General laughter.)
9 MS. ICKES:
We are very pleased to learn of 10 your bipartisan operation.
11 At this time we will take a break for 15 12 minutes.
I would, again, encourage you to interact with 13 the people representing the NRC, and I believe that GPU 14 nuclear is pretty much gathered over there.
15 So let's have some healthy interaction -- some 16 more GPU people are here Again, if you would care to 17 make public comments, I would ask you to sign the registry 18 in the back of the room.
19 Also with us is Mr. Jim Keifer who is 20 representing our State Representative Dick Hess.
- Jim, 21 would you please stand up?
22 So if there are any concern you would like to 23 relay to Representative Hess, please see Jim Keiffer.
24
//
25
//
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61 1
(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off 2
the record at 8:20 p.m. and went back on the 3
record at 8:35 p.m.)
4 MS. ICKES:
Can I have your attention, please?
5 Would everyone take their seats.
6 I'm sticking to my role as the cracker of the r
7 whip, I'm pleased to have this session reconvened.
8 Checking your agenda you will note that next on the 9
schedule we will have Gerald Kuehn from GPU Nuclear.
10 After we have finished with that presentation i
l 11 around 9 o' clock, there will be time for questions and 12 public comments, plus remarks, and we hope to wrap this up l
l 13 around 10 o' clock.
14 I'm hearing a lot of comments about the l
l 15 uneasiness that is felt for the transportation of these 16 nuclear products.
17 At this time.I hear from GPU nuclear, 18 discussion for next month.
Would it be possible to have 19 someone from the Department of Transportation come, or 20 even for the April -- you know, for the March or April.
21 I think that we need to schedule the i
22 appropriate people.
Okay, that will be addressed.
23 So at this time Mr. Kuehn will take the 24 podium.
25 MR. KUEHN:
Good evening.
As Norma said, I'm NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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/
1 Gerald Kuehn.
I'm the vice president of the Saxton 2
Nuclear Experimental Corporation, which we finally called 3
SNEC.
And more importantly, I'm program director for GPU 4
nuclear for the decommissioning project at Saxton 5
facility, which we call the SNEC facility', so I'll try to 6
refer to it as that, as we go along.
Rome 7
With me tonight is Mr. Art // he is vice 8
president and director of nuclear safety and technical 9
services for GPU nuclear.
10 GPU nuclear is responsible to SNEC corporation 11 for the decommissioning of the facility.
So the staff we 12 use, the expertise we use, comes from GPU nuclear.
A 13 subsidiary of GPU, as I think most of you know.
14 Prior to my assignment to the SNEC facility, I 15 was director of radiological and environmental controls, l'6 and occupational safety for GPU, which included TMI, 17 Oyster Creek Station in New Jersey, and Headquarters in 18 Parseipiti.
19 Prior to that three year assignment, I was 20 operation director, or senior site director for the TMI II 21 dismantlement, recovery from the accident.
22 I mention those two experiences of mine, 23 because I think they are very important, and they 24 demonstrate that GPU nuclear has applied resources to the 25 SNEC facility project, that lend themselves well to what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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we have ahead of us, which is the safe decommissioning, i
2 safe for the public, safe for the workers of the SNEC 1
3 facility.
4 Along with my transfer to this project, i
i 5
several members of my staff, in fact 80 percent of my i
6 current Saxton staff have experienced directly in
)
i 7
supervising and managing the recovery effort at TMI II.
8 As I think we all know, that was a challenging 1
9 project, it was done safely, and we can directly apply 10 what we learned there to what we are about to do at 11 Saxton, keeping safety first and foremost.
12 I'm going to talk about dismantling the 13 containment vessel, we will get a look with some of the 14 overheads we have as to what that containment vessel looks 15 like and what it is.
16 And I intend to spend about 20 to 30 minutes 17 going through the particulars of the decommissioning, and 18 I'll break down what we are going to talk about as we go 19 through that.
20 After my presentation, if there are any 21 questions as there were with the NRC, I'd be glad to 22 answer those.
If I'm unable to answer any of the 23 questions, our communications department will record 24 those, and we will get back to you either through the 25 Citizen's Task Force, which I'll talk about, or directly, NEAL R. GROSS court REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOoE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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. - - - ~.
~
64 i
i 1
if that is appropriate.
2 What we are going to cover as we go through my l
3 presentation is the history of the Saxton facility, when j
l 4
it operated, why we decided to decommission now.
I know-i 5
that is one of the questions we had earlier of the NRC, 6
who decided to decommission, and why did they decide to.
1 7
I'll talk a bit about that.
8 Our recent dismantlement activities, which 9
have been allowed to be done by NRC, with NRC's 10 permission, prior to the decommissioning itself.
The 11 schedule and costs as we see it now, which has been 12 submitted to the NRC.
13 In other words, what we intend to do and what 14 time frame, the cost of the project as we see it 15 projected.
Major aspects of decommissioning, including 16 that reactor vessel that we talked about, that some 17 questions were asked about, and I'll talk some more about 18 that, and a bit about the transportation of that, as we 19 see it.
20 Safety oversight, which is a key ingredient, 21 the way we have the program put together, so that we are 22 assured that we have independent oversight, and in-company 23 oversight, through the process.
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important aspect of what we've done so far, and will be 2
throughout the project until completion, until we reach 3
what we call green field, or pre-release of the site.
4 And that is accomplished through the Citizen's 5
Task Force, which has been put into place in the Saxton 6
area.
7 Early history of the plant.
The plant 8
operated from 1962 to 1972 for a ten year period.
It 9
produced electricity during that period, but was primarily 10 a research and training reactor.
11 Some of the operators at TMI, in fact, had 12 their initial training at the SNEC facility back in the 13
'60 to '70 time frame.
And foreign reactor operators were 14 trained at the facility.
15 It was also a research reactor in that some 16 new nuclear applications were first tried at the SNEC 17 facility, and tried successfully.
18 That ten year period was twice as long as the 19 facility was designed to operate, in fact it went twice as 20 long as planned for, initially.
21 This first view we have the tacility, a couple 22 of pointers on what is there to look at.
When we talk 23 about the containment vessel and what is left to do on-24 site, we are talking about this dome-shaped structure.
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feet in diamater, 50 feet above ground, and a similar j
i 2
shaped portion underground.
So 50 feet underground, and 3
again, 50 feet in diameter.
4 All of what we have to do, or the lion's share 5
of what we have to do, is inside that containment.
The 6
reactor vessel is in there, the steam generator, all the I
t i
7 major components, small components, piping and systems I
r 8
which we have to disposition as we decommission the site.
9 In the foreground, in operating days, you see 10 the control and auxiliary building, and
- f. hat contained the 11 control room, much like the nuclear reactors, they have a 1
12 control room.
Laboratories, and other facilities, there.
13 In the background, here, the rad waste 1
14 disposal facility, processing of rad waste occurred in 15 that building, and there was a pipe connection between 16 that and the reactor building and the control auxiliary 1
j 17 room.
18 You can't see very clearly, but in this bottom i
19 left-hand corner is a piece of the old coal station, which 20 existed alongside the SNEC facility, the nuclear reactor 21 facility at the time.
22 Our steam unit, which produced in the SNEC 23 facility, went to that coal plant, and we utilized one of 24 their turbines and generators to produce electricity.
25 It was an eight megawatt plant, compared to I
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the larger five, six, seven hundred megawatt plants that 2
we see today, operating.
It was very small, and yet it 3
was able to supply about 8,000 to 10,000 people with 4
electricity, when it produced electricity.
5 One of the things that is an advantage of the 6
SNEC project, and the NRC pointed this out, is that we 7
don't have any fuel assemblies on-site, either new or 8
unused, or spent fuel assemblies.
9 The majority, by far, of the radioactivity 10 associated with the nuclear facility resides in the spent 11 fuel at that facility.
And so facilities who are facing 12 decommissioning have the problem of contending with the 13 spent fuel, be it storing it in the spent fuel pool, or 14 putting it into a dry fuel storage situation, both of 15 which have to be approved by the NRC.
16 That fuel, as we said earlier, was shipped in 17 the early '70s to the Savannah River Project, where it 18 resides today, as far as I know.
It has been transferred 19 back to the government, so that we no longer have the 20 responsibility for that fuel.
That makes our job a lot i
21 easier.
22 We still have radiological and safety l
23 challenges, but the lion's share of the radioactivity is 1
24 not something we need to be concerned about.
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that you see here -- that is obviously a new fuel 2
assembly, or he wouldn't be standing that close to it.
3 Since it is the majority of radioactivity after activated, 4
and after it is used for fission, if you will.
5 That would have to be underwater for shielding 6
during an operating period.
So that is a new fuel 7
assembly being loaded into the core.
8 Why decommission now?
There are'four primary 9
reasons for why we've elected to decommission now.
As you 10 know, the plant shut down in 1972.
There has been 11 deterioration which has been occurring since 1972, and although we've maintained the facility, we haven't worked 12 I
13 our pumps or pipes, or painted structures, for the most 14 part.
15 So as you can see, in this picture, there is 16 some rust in various areas of the plant.
There is j
17 concrete which has cracked over the years.
4 1
l 18 The second, and maybe the most important 19 reason, is that this site at Saxton was not designed to be 20 a rad waste repository.
It is not licensed to hold rad 21 waste for any period of time.
It is in the 100 year flood 22 plain, and we think it is time to get the material, the 23 radioactive material, off the site, and return that site 24 to free release.
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components in the building is not getting any better, it 2
is getting worse.
The technology exists today, point 3
number 3, to do this job, as the NRC has said, several 4
decommissionings have been successfully completed, there 5
are others that are underway now.
6 And finally, the fourth, we have the 7
experienced people to do the work.
People who have done 8
dismantling activities at Saxton, in the buildings which 9
were contaminated, decontaminated, and dismantled those 10 buildings.
11 People who have the experience of TMI II as I 12 mentioned earlier.
If we wait, we may lose that 13 experience.
There are even people inside GPU Nuclear 14 today who worked at Saxton, who trained at Saxton, as I 15 said, so that experience is available for us.
~
16 I'm not getting any younger, I could be gone i
i 17 five years from now, probably will be, by retirement or l
i 18 whatever.
19 So let's use the experience we have, and do it 20 now, when we are able and ready to do it safely, and i
21 efficiently.
l i
22 Recent dismantlement activities.
In 1986 to 23 1990, we completed decontamination of some major I
i l
24 structures on site.
As I pointed out in the earlier 25 pictures, in the foreground here is the rad waste disposal t
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facility, the pipe tunnel I talked about going between 2
there and containment, and the control and auxiliary 3
building that you can see in the left side of the 4
containment, were all decontaminated and dismantled, 5
surveyed and through acceptance by the NRC, we were 6
allowed to dismantle those facilities, including the pipe 7
tunnel that runs between there, and some other structures O
which aren't shown in this picture.
9 That was good experience for us, we learned 10 from that experience.
The surveys had to be redone at one 11 point, because we were on a learning process then.
That i
12 was done safely without occupational injury, and with 13 radiation exposures to the workers that were well within I
14 what we had projected.
15 So that is good experience.
Those facilities 16 are all gone, and what we have left to contend with now, 17 as I said, is the containment vessel, which you see in 18 this shot.
That is kind of a before and'after, if you 19 will.
20 You can see that we have graded and seeded the 21 area after having removed those support structures.
That 22 is what the site will look like when we are finally done 23 in removing that containment vessel.
24 One of the other things that was done, in 1994 i
25 we shipped contaminated soil from the site.
As we j
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sampled, surveyed, and loo'ked at the areas involved in the 2
rad waste disposal facility, a water storage tank, which 3
was a large tank with radioactive water in it that had 4
some leakage problems during operation, we found ground 5
that was contaminated slightly above background, in most 6
cases.
7 That soil had to be removed, we don't have a 8
ready way to clean soil, so it was shipped to Utah to a 9
disposal facility, in the bags that you see.
In total 10 there were some 56,000 cubic feet of soil shipped.
11 As I recall, and Bob correct me if I'm wrong, l
12 there were 100 truckloads of that soil removed from site.
13 So that soil is gone, was shipped successfully, and is a 14 big part of what we had to do in the yard area around the l
15 containment vessel.
16 There is still some soil involvement in and i
17 around the containment vessel itself, and we will have to 18 contend with as we go on with the decommissioning.
19 But the majority of the site, other than that 20 containment vessel and the adjacent area, is free released 21 at this point.
22 In January of
'96, as she NRC said, we 23 submitted our decommissioning plan to the NRC.
The new 24 rule occurred after January of '96, which said that we l
f 25 needed a PSDAR, or post-shutdown decommissioning 1
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activities report.
2 That plan that we submitted became, upon our 3
request and the NRC's approval, the PSDAR.
What we have 4
is, as Al Adams, submitted the PSDAR in the form of the 5
decommissioning plan.
6 In January of '97, one of the things we were allowed to do in the interim, before now and approval of 7
8 the decommicsioning plan, was work on asbestos removal.
9 These are preparations for decommissioning.
Asbestos on 10 piping in the plant was deteriorating, as many other 11 things are inside containment.
12 For the workers to do their maintenance and 13 surveillance, that asbestos was a hazard for them, so we 14 wanted to get rid of the asbestos, we petitioned the NRC 15 to be allowed to do that, and we were granted permission 16 to remove the asbestos.
17 This month we finalized removal of the 18 asbestos, and what is left to be done now is that we are 19 putting up some vacuum cleaners and doors and filters, 20 which were associated with that work.
So that is the end 21 of the asbestos inside containment.
22 It is good to have that out of the way, so 23 that we can go into decommissioning without having to 24 worry about asbestos exposure to the workers.
I 25 Scheduling costs.
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said, to bngin decommissioning work this year, 1997, 2
having completed preparations for that work, we are poised 3
and ready to do the work, do the decommissioning.
4 We expect that that process will take us 5
-- I get a break.
6 (Problems with the PA system.)
7 MR. KUEHN:
Okay, we are cack in business.
8 Thank God for the break, I forgot something in my 9
presentation.
10 (Problems with the PA system.)
11 MR. KUEHN:
One of the things I forgot as I i
12 was going through the preparation, that we've been allowed i
i 13 to do, is the construction of what we call the i
14 decommissioning support building, or DSB.
a 15 That building was constructed to facilitate 16 decommissioning.
17 (Mike was turned off.)
18 MR. KUEHN:
Please note that it is not my t
19 fault if I go longer than 30 minutes.
20 The decommissioning support building that you l
21 see in the foreground was constructed by a local i
l 22 construction company, using local people.
It's purpose is 23 to accommodate material we bring out of the containment 24 vessel as we decommission, pumps, piping, and things I 25 will talk about in another diagram I'm going to show you, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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/
1 will be prepared and packaged for shipment in that 2
building.
3 And so at the containment vessel, there will 4
be an opening cut in the side of this containment vessel 5
which leads into, with a monorail, that can handle 6
equipment, to the decommission support building. We are 7
not allowed to cut that hole in containment until we have 8
permission to decommission the facility.
So we built the 9
building, we've attached the containment, but we haven't 10 cut the hole into the containment vessel to accommodate 11 material that is going to come out.
12 Okay, I said we were starting this year, we 13 are anxious to go, we are ready to go.
The NRC approval, 14 we hope, is coming in the first quarter of the year.
15 When we get that permission we expect it to 16 take until 2000 to complete the project.
Our current l
17 schedule says that the majority of the work will be done
]
1 18 by mid-1999, with final site restoration to occur between 19 then and the time we are authorized to terminate the i
20 license, or the NRC terminates our license.
j 21 In the end of '99 we ought to be able to 22 restore the site for free release, which is our intent, j
i 23 The cost is estimated at 22 million dollars, 24 in 1995 dollars, when that cost estimate was done.
That j
25 dollar amount is an estimate, and it is only an estimate.
I s
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I fully expect we may have to adjust that as we go along, 2
and I say that specifically because of rad waste costs, 3
which are uncertain at this time, at best.
4 And who knows in three years from now what 5
they may be when we are ready to do some of the final l
6 shipments.
7 So that may require an adjustment which we 8
will accommodate as necessary, but 22 million is the 9
expected figure.
10 The major aspects of decommissioning.
The 11 containment building remains intact.
Bob, if you could 12 show that?
During the decommissioning.
I think this is a 13 key issue that I'd like you to understand.
14 This containment vessel that we are required j
15 to maintain in containment integrity form, during 16 decommissioning, is a three-quarter inch steel structure, 17 which is continuous above ground and below ground, so it 18 is kind of a lipstick tube, if you will, in giant size.
19 Again, 50 by 50 above ground, 50 below ground.
20 That containment vessel will remain intact, 21 and containment integrity will be required throughout 22 decommissioning.
We will have to cut some holes in it, 23 which will be designed and engineered to not break l
24 containment integrity, because we will ensure air flow i
i 25 into the containment, and not out of it.
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But when we have done the final survey, and 2
are allowed to do final survey, and after the public 3
meeting that discusses our termination plan, we will then, 4
and only then, take that containment vessel down.
5 So all work to remove, to cut piping, to get 6
the reactor vessel out, will all be done inside that 7
containment.
And where we are capable of doing it, q
8 brought into the decommissioning support building that we j
l 9
showed.
10 Obviously, the reactor vessel is too big to do 11 that with, but most small components and other components 12 will be handled through that decommissioning support l
13 building.
14 On that diagram is a pretty simplistic view of 15 other piping systems, paints, pumps and components, heat 16 exchangers, these are small components which we will 17 remove from containment, in their entirety, and dispose of 18 as radioactive waste, in most cases.
19 That means we will take them up into that 20 tunnel that we created between the containment vessel and 21 the decommissioning support building, by monorail into 22 that building, and they will be packaged and prepared for 23 shipment, and then out that decommissioning support 24 building, and on to a truck for disposal.
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vessel that you see depicted here, the steam generator i
2 here, and the pressurizer, are bigger challenges, obvious, 3
just because of their size.
l l
4 The reactor vessel, for example, will be some l
5 100 tons with all its support equipment when we ship it.
6 And as the NRC has indicated, we will load l
7 that vessel, inject into that vessel a cellular-like 8
concrete, to immobilize it.
Those kinds of projects are l
9 projects that will require a lot of oversight, overview, 10 and NRC advisement, as we go, so that we understand what j
11 we are about to do, and review our work process for doing 12 that.
13 The citizen's task force, which I referred to 14 earlier, and will talk a little bit more about, is our 15 connection with our citizens of Saxton, so that they know 16 what we are about to do, and are advised ahead of time so 17 they can talk to us, ask questions of us, and we think 18 that has been, to date, and will continue to be an 19 important aspect of our interface with the community 20 during decommissioning.
21 And certainly that reactor vessel removal is a 22 key issue.
For example, in our preliminary plans for 23 removal of that vessel, intend to cut a hole in the top 24 containment, to get a large crane from off-site, with a 25 vendor who is familiar with this kind of work, and has 1
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done this kind of large component removal, lift that 2
vessel through the ceiling of that containment vessel, and 3
out onto a preparation area for preparation for shipping.
4 None of that, and maybe this will help to 5
answer one of the questions that has been asked so far, 6
will be done until we have designed the program to prepare i
7 that vessel, to remove that vessel from containment, to 8
prepare it for shipment, to certify it as a shipping 9
package, to obtain the proper equipment to ship it, 10 trucking, all the permits required, the bridges, the 11 roads, the things we have to worry about to get it on the 12 road and shipped to disposal, will be in place, will be 13 reviewed by the NRC and approved before we touch that 14 vessel to remove it from the containment.
15 And there is a lot of work involved with these i
16 three components, as you can imagine.
We have put out a 17 bid specification recently to some ten companies who will i
18 bid doing that work for us.
19 Again, we at GPU Nuclear are responsible for 20 that, and every other aspect of this decommissioning.
But 21 we will contract with somebody who has experience on large 22 equipment removal, radioactive equipment removal, which 23 involves the engineering required to prepare the package, 24 the lifting of the package, the preparation of the truck 25 and the transport to a safe burial site.
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As we see that site, today, it ir probably 2
Barnwell, south Carolina.
We have been in contact with 3
Barnwell, we've talked to them about this vessel, and they 4
are anxious to bury the vessel for rs and believe they can a
5 accommodate it.
6 Again, this is all preliminary, and we are 7
waiting for the issuance of that bid specification, and 8
suggestions back from companies on the bid list to say how 9
they would do it, and we will pick one.
10 It is important that we get going with that, 11 because as I said, that is a big piece of what we have to 12 do in decommissioning.
i 13 The structures that you see depicted here in 14 light grey are concrete, for the most part, and some 15 reinforcing steel.
16 The activation which Mr. Adams talked about 17 that occurs in a nuclear power plant has activated some of 4
18 that concrete, so it has become radioactive.
19 So some portion of this concrete will need to 20 be removed by methods called scabbling, for example, where 21 you break the surface concrete up and collect that as 22 radioactive waste, and then hopefully leave behind clean.
23 24 And we will survey as we do that work to make 25 sure that we get down to a clean layer of concrete so that t
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we can leave that in place.
2 We don't intend to remove any more of the i
3 structure underground than we need to when we 4
decommission.
But if it is radioactive above our i
5 authorized release limits, then we will have to remove the 6
material.
7 We talked about the final survey, or the NRC 8
did, some.
We will submit a plan which includes that 9
survey, and there will be public meeting to accommodate 10 questions regarding our final survey, and how we intend to 11 terminate the license.
12 So there will be another opportunity, as Mr.
13 Adams said, for the public to participate.
14 oversight is another aspect of decommissioning 15 that I want to touch on, before I close.
We have, by way 16 of independent oversight, certainly the Nuclear Regulatory 17 Commission who can come and inspect any time, announced, i
18 unannounced, or otherwise, and have done and will do both, 19 I'm sure, in the future.
20 Inside the company, we have two committees who 21 oversee what my staff and I are doing during the 22 decommissioning.
One committee is the nuclear safety 23 compliance committee, which is made up of outside 24 individuals with fairly senior titles who oversee with 25 representation on-site, occasionally, much like the NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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inspector would arrive, and report directly to the 2
President of GPU Nuclear.
3 So my boss Art, for example, could get a 4
report from the President of the company that said, you 5
are not doing what you are supposed to be doing at Saxton, 6
you let Kuehn do scimething he shouldn't have done, and Art 7
can get in trouble, because that SNEC has the ability to 8
go over Art's head, also.
9 The Chair of that Committee, is Admiral Trost 10 who some of you may recognize as an ex-Chief of Naval 11 operations.
So there are pretty heavy hitter people in 12 that committee, and they aren't gentle about the way they 13 hold our feet to the fire on the things that we need to 14 do, and do safely at the SNEC facility.
15 The second committee is a rad safety 16 committee, which is part of our general office review 17 board.
That committee was created, specifically, to 18 oversee the Saxton decommissioning, as we do it.
19 There is expertise on that committee, both in 20 company and out of company, including the director of 21 environmental controls, the director of radiological i
22 controls, and others on that committee, who have specific 23 expertise on areas that apply to the decommissioning.
24 So we, again, answer to that committee.
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to go to a couple of those meetings, and I think if you 2
ask them, they will tell you that it is a pretty up front 3
tough questions, that we are asked, we the staff who are 4
doing the decommissioning, and it is not a very gentle 5
process to go through, for us.
6 But out the other end comes a more responsible 7
project management than we had going in.
So it is good 8
criticism, and it is constructive, and it has been helpful 9
to us, and will be throughout the project.
10 Community involvement is my last point.
We 11 have, and I don't know if Sylvia is still here, waving her 12 hand, with triplets, I might add.
Is it all right for me
{
t 13 to say that, Sylvia?
Too late.
We are proud of her
)
14 triplets.
)
1 15 Sylvia is our on-site communications 16 representative.
Sylvia is from the area, has interfaced 17 with the citizens of the area.
When back from leave, she 18 will be full time, again, on-site in supporting the Saxton 19 project, and has been a lot of help to us in interfacing i
1 20 with the community, and keeping you advised of what is 21 going on, on-site.
22 We have a community newsletter which is coming 23 out quarterly, right, Sylvia?
Bi-monthly right now.
And 24 that, again, is an effort to keep the citizens informed of 25 what is going on.
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The citizen's task force is a group which was 2
put together, initially, with Sylvia's help but now is 3
independent of GPU Nuclear, but meets monthly.
And meets 4
with the intent of learning about what we are doing on-5 site.
6 I,
for example, am asked to present, at each 7
meeting, current status, what we've done since the last 8
meeting.
Maybe more importantly, what we intend to do on 9
future work, before the next meeting.
10 That task force has been a big help to us in 11 listening to what the community has to say.
I hope we've 12 been responsive to them.
We certainly intend to be, and 13 will continue to be in the future.
14 But to listen to their questions and what the 15 people are concerned about, is something that we will be l'6 receptive to, throughout the process.
We'd like to see 17 more members of the public come to those meetings.
They 18 are open to the public, not just to task force members.
i 19 A turnout like we have tonight would be great 20 to see.
We don't see many people behind the task force, 21 usually, but we certainly encourage more people to come.
22 And as I said, the task force has also been a 23 part of some of the meetings we have, in oversight of the 24 project.
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by Penn Stato.
Roger, are you still here?
Yes, Roger 2
Granlund is in the audience.
Roger, again independent of 3
what we are doing, and doesn't report to me, but in fact 4
reports to the citizen's task force on surveys he does, 5
sampling he does, oversight of our activities, our 6
procedures, and has taken under his wing one of the 7
citizens from the citizen's task force, Charlie who is 8
here, I think, to try to educate the public some more 9
about what does it mean to look at a nuclear facility, a 10 nuclear operation, and what do you look for, and how you 11 operate the instruments that you survey with, to tell how 12 well they are doing out there.
13 So I think that education of the citizen's 14 task force has helped, and I'm sure Roger appreciates the 15 help, too, with his work load.
16 Roger's number, up on the screen.
Please note 17 that.
He is free to answer questions at any time you 18 call.
If you get a message from Roger's phone, he will 19 certainly get back to you and answer your questions.
20 In conclusion, I would just like to say that I 21 think we have an experienced staff in place, which will 22 serve us well to decommission the facility.
We are ready 23 to do it, we are technically capable to do it.
We have 24 enough layers of oversight in place to make sure that we 25 dot the Is, cross the Ts, and don't forget the big NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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picture, if you will, as we go forward.
2 And we have the citizens, and the citizen's 3
task force also available to feed back to us the citizen's 4
concerns, and for us to advise as we go forward, so that 5
there aren't any surprises.
6 We are ready to do it, and we think now is the 7
time to do it, and we appreciate your support in trying to 8
get it done.
9 I'd be glad to take questions.
10 MR. BAKER:
Gene Baker, again.
I guess you 11 are the guy I need to talk to.
And I apologize for not 12 mentioning Sylvia, she has been fantastic out there, too.
13 We had six carpenters on our project, we are 14 down to two now.
I'm hearing rumors that you people are 15 going to be bringing people in from different plants to do 16 a lot of this work.
17 That was one of my crncerns, because the 18 people I have are from Bedford County, and quite frankly, 19 five of them from Liberty Township.
20 And Ms. Ickes and Mr. Ebersol, and Mr. Rice, 21 they've always been helpful, we've had some city 22 councilman here and things like that.
So put the pressure 23 on them to hire local people.
24 MR. KUEHN:
The workers from other plants that 25 Gene is referring to are GPU workers?
I'm sorry, GPU NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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86 1
nuclear workers, in particular.
2 As we look at the future of power production 3
in GPU, it is obvious to us that we have to do things 4
smarter, more efficiently, and that means probably with 5
fewer people in the future.
i 6
And so bargaining unit people that we have 7
associated with our plants at TMI and Oyster Creek, may l
8 well be dwsnsized in the future, or deferred to other i
9 projects.
[
10 This project is a prime place for some people 11 to come to, to stay employed by GPU.
Some of them have 12 20, 25, 30 years of experience or seniority with the 13 company.
1 14 I met with Art and other vice presidents in 15 headquarters to discuss this issue.
And what we have 16 concluded is that we think the best mix for the project, 17 from now forward, is if we have both company people 18 assuming they are willing to volunteer to come to Saxton 19 to do the work, and local people out of the union hall 20 that Gene is talking about.
21 So ideally, Gene, we intend to have a mix of 22 company and bargaining unit people from the sites, 23 basically, and hope to continue to use your carpenters and 24 laborers and some others, as the numbers will allow us.
25 MR. BAKER:
The second phase, so to speak, as 1
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4 87 1
far as Raytheon is there now, and the asbestos, you say 2
those companies -- you have no idea what company has the 3
next phase or whatever?
4 MR. KUEEN:
Somebody correct me from the 5
company if I'm wrong, but I believe Raytheon got our 6
contract for supporting of TMI and Oyster Creek in the 7
future, so that is a done deal.
8 So Raytheon would, again, be the contractor 9
for that kind of support in the future.
And I'd like to 10 add, for Gene's benefit, I do appreciate the work we got 11 out of the carpenters and laborers that did the asbestos 12 work.
13 These were people who weren't familiar with 14 working in a nuclear facility, went through our training 15 for radiation workers, and did a fine job for us with 16 asbestos removal.
We appreciate their dedication and the 17 good job they did for us.
i 18 MR. BAKER:
Item that is way over head, I'll 19 let cmarter people take care of that.
But I do appreciate l
20 the local involvement, and I hope you can keep that on a 21 90/10 deal.
22 MR. KUEHN:
Noted, thank you.
23 MR. BAKER:
Thank you, f
24 MR. KUEEN:
Other questions?
25 MR. POWERS:
My name is Rylan Powers.
What NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISt.AND AVE., N W.
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88 1
time of year are they planning to remove this reactor?
2 MR. KUEEN:
The reactor vessel itself, as I 3
said, the removal has not been completely planned, yet, 4
and it is more a timing issue than anything.
How long it 5
takes us to prepare the package which the NRC will review
[
6 for approval to go ahead and ship, the package i
7 certification, the arrangements with the company that t
8 removes the vessel and loads it and provides the shipping t
9 to the burial site.
i 10 I don't know now what time of year that will 11 be.
We will be required, however, I can tell you by the t
12 NRC's review of our preparation of that shipment package,
[
13 to meet levels of exposure of radiation associated with f
14 that shipment, that are safe for the public, including the 15 kids in school, the kids on the street, and whoever else 16 might be in the area when we do that shipment.
17 It is not something that typically we would 18 try to adjust who is where when we ship.
It will be safe 19 for the city streets as it goes through.
20 MR. POWERS:
But you don't have like a ball 21 park figure, even?
22 MR. KUEEN:
A ball park figure?
23 MR. POWERS:
Yes.
24 MR. KUEHN:
Well, if I give you one, he is 25 going to pin me down.
I don't want to do that.
I would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TPANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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t 89 1
guess that probably near to the end of the year,
'97, we o
2 would hope to get it done.
But that is pretty aggressive, 3
there is a lot to be done, a lot of certification and 4
approval to be done between now and then.
5 MR. POWERS:
What are they going to do about 6
four to five hundred high school students, in school, less 7
than a quarter of a mile away, and the one hundred to two 8
hundred elementary kids in school, about three-fourths of 9
a mile away?
10 What are they going to do about all the kids 11 in school, are we going to have like a day off, or --
12 MR. KUENN:
What I'm saying to you, Rylan, is 13 that if we are allowed to go forward with the shipment, 14 not if, but when we are allowed to go forward, where those 15 kids are won't make any difference, because the NRC will 16 not allow us to move one wheel off-site with that 17 shipment, until the radiation levels are such that they 18 are safe for the public, as simple as that, it won't go 19 anywhere.
20 MR. POWERS:
And you said that the reactor the 21 trailer that it is on, the cement and everything is going 22 to weigh about 100 tons?
23 MR. KUEHN:
Yes.
24 MR. POWERS:
Well, there are two bridges, if I
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there is a bridge.
The bottom bridge, the weight limit is 2
two tons, and the other bridge it is four tons.
3 How are they going to move something across a 4
bridge that 5
MR. KUEEN:
Excellent question.
That is a 6
good one.
Saxton is going to build us a new bridge, 7
didn't you know that?
8 (General laughter.)
9 MR. KUEHN:
Part of the certification for that 10 shipment will require us to --
11 MR. POWERS:
You are going to get yelled at.
12 (General laughter.)
l 13 MR. KUEHN:
Excuse me.
I'd better say that on 14 the microphone.
Part of the certification will require us 15 to evaluate the roadways, the bridges, the overpasses, the 15 little dinky bridge right outside of Saxton that is right 17 adjacent to the site property, obviously won't carry that.
18 19 We will have to bridge that.
Not we, but a 20 construction company that we hire as part of this large 21 component removal, will have to bridge that bridge, if you 22 will, with a structure that will support that weight.
23 MR. POWERS:
If that thing would happen to 24 fall off, the reactor, let's hope not.
But how many i
25 millirems of radiation will be released per minute, maybe?
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHoDE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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91 j
i l
1 MR. KUEHN:
That package will be required to 2
be shielded so, again, that it meets the transportation 3
requirements, and the NRC's requirements for us to ship it 4
as a package.
If that fell off the truck, for example, 5
remember that that reactor vessel was designed to hold 6
operating pressure in an operating nuclear reactor, which 7
is thousands of pounds of pressure, j
8 It has five-inch thick walls of solid steel.
j 9
So if it rolled off, it would roll off, and I doubt -- I'm 10 not an engineer by degree, but I doubt if it would crack 11 or break open.
4 12 If it did, I take you back to something Mr.
J 13 Adams said.
That reactor vessel radioactivity content is 14 because of activation.
It is the atoms inside that vessel 15 that are radioactive.
They are not going anywhere if it 16 breaks.
1 17 They don't fly out into the air and take off 1
i 18 for the grade school or the high school, it is not what 19 they do.
They stay right there on the ground, we would 20 control that area, rope it off, and then disposition the
'r 21 vessel if it had fallen off.
22 That kind of leads me into another piece that 4
23 I'd like to address, and that is responsibility for that 24 shipment off-site.
We own that vessel, we own every 25 package that we ship off-site, but when it leaves the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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l l
92 1
sito, wa are no longar, we GPU Nuclear, no longer l
2 responsible for it.
3 The Department of Transportation regulations 4
must be met, but the State of Pennsylvania is responsible 1
5 for responding to any incident involving that shipment, 6
between here and the time it reaches this burial site.
1 7
That doesn't mean the state wouldn't pick the i
8 phone up and say, GPU Nuclear we want your health physics 9
technicians to help us with this, you are closer, please 10 respond, and I'm sure the company would do that.
11-But the ultimate responsibility for emergency 12 response, for the roadways chosen for the path to the 13 burial site, are with the state of Pennsylvania, as they 14 are in every other state or Commonwealth in the nation.
15 This isn't unique to Pennsylvania.
It is the way rad 16 wast is handled in this country.
17 MR. POWERS:
Well, if you rope it off, that is 18 not going to -- you can't rope off radiation and tell it 19 where it can't go.
20 MR. KUEHN:
I can't rope off radiation?
21 MR. POWERS:
I hope not.
22 MR. KUEHN:
I have three things going for me 23 with radiation, time, distance and shielding.
If I stay i
24 away from it in time, if I spend most of the time at home 25 and not near that vessel, that is going to reduce my NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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93 1
exposure, right?
)
i 2
Distance, the further away I can stay, the j
l 3
better.
Radiation drops off very rapidly with distance, j
i 4
and I'm talking los of feet, 100s of feet.
So we would 5
rope it off to a safe level, where it wouldn't be an 6
exposure problem to anybody, because nobody could get near j
7 it.
8 shielding, it will already be shielded, as I 9
said, to NRC's specifications for shipment.
l 10 MR. POWERS:
Well, how is it going to affect f
11 about a quarter of a mile where the high school is?
Will 12 we be evacuated, or --
l 13 MR. KUEHN:
I'd have to do some fancy 14 calculations, Rylan, and I'd ask the rad engineers to do l
15 that, to say what would a dose rate be at a quarter of a 16 mile.
It depends on what the dose rate is on contact of j
l 1
17 that vessel.
18 But we certainly would look at that before we 19 ever ship it, we'll know what the dose, the millirem per 20 hour2.314815e-4 days <br />0.00556 hours <br />3.306878e-5 weeks <br />7.61e-6 months <br /> that you were talking about is, before we ship it.
21 MR. POWERS:
Thanks for your time, that is 22 about it.
23 MR. KUEEN:
You are welcome, thanks for the 24 question.
Any other questions?
25 MR. NOVAK:
My name is Karl Novak.
You said NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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94 1
something about it costing 22 million dollars.
Is that 2
based on what they are presently charging at Barnwell for 3
disposition of this type of material?
4 MR. KUEHN:
No, that is based on what they 5
were charging in 1995.
Today what they are charging is 6
being discussed.
The Northeast alliance, for example, 7
that is a lot of utilities going together to get the best 8
rad waste disposal fees that we can get, is working with 9
the various waste repositories to ;rv to figure out what 10 the dollar costs are going to be.
11 We just don't know at this time.
So as we are 12 prepared to ship, and for example those asbestos packages 13 that we have ready to ship, we are bartering with the 14 waste disposal facilities for how much we can do it for.
15 So it is kind of a floating number, at this 16 point.
And, obviously, of that 22 million, waste disposal l
17 is a real big chunk, and a big variable at this point.
18 MR. NOVAK:
I well understand that.
The thing f
19 that I want to know is who is paying for this?
Are the 20 stockholders paying for it, are the bondholders paying for 21 it, or are the users of electricity paying for it?
22 MR. KUEEN:
Karl, you are paying for it if you 23 are a rate payer in Pennsylvania or New Jersey.
Are you?
l 24 MR. NOVAK:
Yes, I am.
So essentially we are 25 paying for this, but the bondholders and the stockholders, l
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a, 95 j
)
1 they are not chipping in at all, is that what you are 4
]
2 saying?
3 MR. KUEHN:
No, decommissioning funds have 4
been and are being collected for the decommissioning of 5
the SNEC facility.
The owners of this facility were, in i
i 6
the past, at its inception, Pennsylvania Electric, Jersey 7
Central, and Metropolitan Edison Companies, in varying 8
percentages.
3 9
As a result of regulations, those companies i
l 10 are allowed, through rates, to collect from the customers i
11 at set rate by the PUC for the decommissioning process.
4 12 We have collected some monies, and we continue 4
13 to collect now for that 22 million dollars.
1 14 MR. NOVAK:
So essentially the bondholders and 15 the stockholders are completely protected, they do not pay 16 for any of this action, is that what you are saying?
17 MR. KUEEN:
I'd have to ask the attorney how s
18 to answer that one.
I don't know what protected means in 4
19 the legal sense.
But the funds to support decommissioning I
20 and to pay for the decommissioning are rate payer funds.
21 MR. NOVAK:
Essentially, simply stated it l
22 means that they are protected from the standpoint that 23 they do not have to chip in any of their expected return 24 on their investment, because of r.his event?
25 MR. KUEHN:
I'11 defer to you on that Karl, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANS3R18ERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., H W.
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96 1
I'm not a finance guy.
2 MR. NOVAK:
Well, that is the point I was 3
trying to make.
4 The containment vessel, which is a rather 5
hefty piece of equipment, that is going into another 6
container, or is that going --
7 MR. KUEEN:
You are talking the reactor vessel 8
itself?
r 9
MR. NOVAK:
Yes.
10 MR. KUEHN:
Not the big dome, but the small l
11 reactor vessel?
That reactor vessel, incidentally, so l
12 that you have a feel for what we are talking about, is 13 about as wide as the spread of my arms, and about three l
i 14 times as tall as I am, and it is a cylinder.
So that is 15 the size we are talking about, a lot of weight for the 16 size.
l 17 That won't necessarily go into another 18 container.
However, it may be shielded by wrapping lead
)
19 and attaching or welding materials to it to shield it.
It 20 may be in a can for contamination control purposes.
21 Those are some of the particulars which have 22 not been decided yet in how we are going to prepare that 23 for shipment, and how the NRC authorizes us to ship it.
24 MR. NOVAK:
Now, whatever type of outside 25 wrap, if you will,_is going to be put together on this, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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97 1
will that be actually tested in reality, or will that be l
i 2
tested by computerization?
3 MR. KUEEN:
Tested in reality in that we will 4
take dose rates with survey meters before we put the i
5 shielding on and after to make sure that we've effected 6
the dose reduction that we need in order to be able to 7
ship it.
8 So we will take real time empirical data to 9
determine that we've done the right thing.
10 MR. NOVAK:
Okay.
The other thing too is 11 there is going to be a future time when you finally give i
12 up this site.
Now, will this site be inhabitable by 13 people at any time, or will it be something that will have 14 to be roped off or fenced off for eternity?
15 MR. KUEEN:
There will be no ropes, no fences, 16 no nothing other than property boundaries if Penn Elec 17 decides to hang on to the property, and doesn't want 18 people near the switchyard, for example.
19 Radiologically there will be no restrictions, 20 it will be a free release site, you could build a house 21 there, you could inhabit that, you could put a garden out, 22 eat the vegetables, drink the water out of a well, you 23 will be able to live there, literally.
24 MR. NOVAK:
So everything, basically, will go 25 back to background, is that what you are saying?
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O 98 1
MR. KUEHN:
No, I did not say everything will 4
2 go back to background.
I said that -- what I meant to say 3
the levels at which we are going to be allowed to leave 4
that site when the NRC finalizes and says, we agree that l
5 you've met the final survey criteria that we established 6
for you, may be above background, but not at a level that 7
exceeds what we are allowed to leave that site at, or 8
exceeds what free release criteria are for that site.
9 MR. NOVAK:
And what level is that at this 10 time?
l l
11 MR. KUEHN:
Right now, we are waiting for l
l 12 final resolution from the NRC on what that final release l
13 criteria will be.
l l
14 If you've read our submittal and our plan you 1
15 will see that we submitted 15 millirem per year, as what l
16 we believe the number is today.
If that number changes, i
17 we will go with whatever the regulations say at the time.
18 MR. NOVAK:
Could that change in the future?
19 MR. KUEHN:
You may want to ask the NRC that 20 question.
It could change in the future, I suppose.
I l
21 don't want to speak for them.
l 22 MR. NOVAK:
I know it is being discussed, time 23 and time again, primarily between the Department of Energy 24 and the NRC, it seems to be the ever ending football, if l
25 you will.
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MR. KUEHN:
I think, Karl, it is important 2
that we keep in mind, and the citizen's task force has 3
heard me say this a couple of times.
That 15 millirem, 20 4
millirem, 20 millirem, those kinds of numbers are well 5
within the natural variation of living in Denver, 6
Colorado, versus Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where I live.
7 Those kinds of variations are common, so it is 8
not a level of exposure that is a health concern to 9
anybody.
10 MR. NOVAK:
Okay, thank you very much.
11 MR. KUEHN:
Thank you.
12 MR. FULLER:
My name is Ernest Fuller, again.
13 I first had a question for the NRC 14 representatives if you are still willing to answer 15 questions.
16 MR. ADAMS:
Can we finish GPU's questions l
17 first?
18 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
There was an analysis that 19 was supposed to be finished in December of whether there
)
20 would be any greater than class C waste generated.
21 Has that been completed, and what are the 22 results?
23 MR. KUEHN:
No, I'm not in receipt of a final 24 analysis, yet.
There is still material that we are 25 studying, sampling and analyzing to determine where we are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRl8ERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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?
I with finii amounts of greater than class C, if any, and 2
what levels of waste we have, at what volumes.
3 MR. FULLER:
When are you planning to have 4
that information, then?
5 MR. KUEHN:
I'm not sure at this time, Ernest, 6
when we will have the final report on that.
7 MR. FULLER:
What is the problem that it 8
wasn't able to be ready when you said it was going to be 9
ready.
10 MR. KUEEN:
I don't recall having said that 11 that was ready.
If I said that, you will have to remind 12 me of when.
13 MR. FULLER:
In a letter to the NRC, dated 14 July 18th, on page 21, you indicated that you would be 15 finished by -- with that information then.
But apparently 16 not.
17 MR. KUEHN:
By what date does that say?
18 MR. FULLER:
July 18th.
19 MR. KUEEN:
I can't imagine why we would have 20 been that specific with July 18th, but in any event, our -
21 22 MR. FULLER:
July 18th was the letter, you 23 said you would have the icformation by the end of the 24 year.
25 MR. KUEHN:
By the end of the year.
I haven't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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101 1
seen that report, that doesn't mean the report isn't out 2
yet.
It hasn't been reviewed by me, yet.
l 3
Our D&D group, or our engineering support for
[
t l
4 the project is working to characterize and finalize the 5
waste streams that we have, the shipments that we will 6
have to make in the future, and some of that work is not j
l l
7 done yet.
8 MR. FULLER:
In that same response to 9
questions, on page 34 you indicated that you hadn't made 10 any estimate yet of the public -- the dose to the public 11 from these activities.
12 Have you completed figuring out what the dose 13 to the public might be, yet?
14 MR. KUEHN:
You are talking from the 15 shipments?
16 MR. FULLER:
I'm talking from the whole 17 decommissioning process, I assume.
18 MR. KUEHN:
We don't anticipate any measurable 19 dose to the public as a result of the activities that we 20 are going to undergo during decommissioning.
21 Can I say, no, there will be no exposure to 22 the public?
Absolutely not.
I can't say that.
But 23 measurable dose, we don't anticipate there being any dose.
24 When we finalize decommissioning, we will meet j
25 the criteria established by the NRC at that time.
- And, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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again, I said our target number right now is 15 millirem 2
per year.
So I will be able to say to you and everybody 3
in the Saxton population will receive less than 15 i
4 millirem per year, or I won't be able to terminate the 5
license and walk away from it.
6 That is the dose to the public, as best as I
)
7 can tell you.
i 8
MR. FULLER:
That is after you are gone.
I'm 9
talking about during the process.
)
l 10 MR. KUEHN:
During we don't anticipate any 11 additional dose, measurable dose to the public as a result i
12 of decommissioning activities.
i 13 MR. FULLER:
So you are not going to estimate 14 anything, since it is just not going to exist?
15 MR. KUEHN:
I'm estimating it is going to be 16 not measurable.
]
17 MR. FULLER:
Okay, so you are estimating, 18 then.
19 MR. KUEHN:
I'm answering your question, 20 Ernest, as best as I can.
Never say never.
21 MR. FULLER:
Also, apparently, you do plan t'
22 release some water with low levels of radioactive tritium 23 in the Juniata, possibly, during this process?
24 MR. KUEHN:
Yes.
There is a likelihood of 25 some liquid releases during decommissioning.
We don't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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103 1
have a large decontamination facility, here.
- However, i
2 there will be some water used in decontamination.
The 3
scabbling process.
4 We have some barrels of water, currently, that l
5 are inside containment that we have to dispose of.
A l
6 logical way to do that would be to clean that water with l
7 portable processing systems which we would contract to 8
come on-site, to clean, to filter that water if you will, 9
much like you filter your water at home, if you do that.
10 That filtrate, or that filter media that is f
11 used to filter the radioactive materials out would be 12 packaged and shipped as radioactive waste.
The water, in 13 turn, would be discharged after we had done a batch 14 sampling, recirculation and sampling of that water to make 15 sure that it meets release criteria, and then we would be 16 able to discharge that to the river.
17 That release criteria and the calculations we 18 have to do, are conservative calculations which assume 19 that the public drinks the water out of the river, eats 20 the fish from the river, stands beside the river, and is 21 directly exposed to whatever radiation we release.
22 Those kinds of liquid releases are typically 23 less than a millirem, you know, per year to the person 24 from that release.
We are talking fractions of a millirem 25 to a millirem.
So they are not high levels of material NEAL R. GROSS l
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released into the river, and will be within the NRC's 2
regulations for those releases.
3 MR. FULLER:
Your decommissioning plan makes 4
reference to a lot of GPU procedures and quality assurance 5
plans and things like that.
Is it possible for a member 6
of the public to see what those are?
7 MR. KUEEN:
We don't typically make our 8
procedures and plans available to the public to 9
scrutinize.
It is not something that we do.
If the 10 citizen's task force has a particular procedure or 11 something that we are about to do that we are curious 12 about, I'd be glad to explain it to the citizen's task 13 force at the meeting, and bring a copy of the procedure 14 with me.
15 I mean, we don't have anything to hide in the 16 procedures, but if I brought the public all the 17 procedures, we'd line all these tables with procedures, 18 and it would be difficult to understand and interpret.
19 I would rather have the opportunity at the 20 citizen's task force meeting to explain what process it is 21 you are wondering about.
22 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
And right now your plan, 23 as you said, indicates that you plan to clean up the site 24 to the 15 millirem limit?
I 25 MR. KUEHN:
Yes.
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1 MR. FULLER:
You also said that you would meet i
'2 whatever requirements the NRC had at the time.
If the NRC
?
3 were to change the requirements to say, 25 millirem which t
j 4
is one of the possible outcomes they predicted, what
{
l 5
standard would you clean up to?
(
l 6
MR. KUEEN:
We will clean up to the standard 7
in place at the time of license termination, or our 8
submittal for the termination plan.
9 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
So you may not clean up to 10 a 15 millirem standard?
11 MR. KUEHN:
If they change it to 10, I'm going 12 to meet 10.
I'm going to do whatever the regulations say 13 I have to do.
If I have to go down, I'll go down, if I 14 have to go up, I'll have that leeway to go up.
15 MR. FULLER:
The NRC requires you to go up?
16 MR. KUEHN:
Pardon?
17 MR. FULLER:
The NRC requires you to go up?
18 MR. KUEHN:
I didn't say they required me.
I 19 said, I would meet the regulations at the time --
20 MR. FULLER:
But you just said that.
21 MR. KUEHN:
-- of license termination.
22 MR. FULLER:
Okay.
That was my last question 23 for you.
24 MR. KUEHN:
Thank you.
Any other questions of 25 me before the NRC comes back up?
Anything at all?
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(No response.)
2 MR. KUEHN:
Thank you.
3 MS. ICKES:
At this time, does anyone have any 4
formal comments that they would care to make?
5 (No response.)
6 MS. ICKES:
No.
Al?
7 MR ADAMS:
We've paid for the place until 10, 8
so I'm willing to answer more questions.
Anybody?
9 MS. ICKES:
If you do not step to the mike, 10 the transcriber cannot record it, so you must be at the 11 mike.
12 MR. TYDEMAN-Do you plan to have any further 13 14 MS. ICKES:
Identify yourself, please.
15 MR. TYDEMAN:
Jim Tydeman, again.
Do you plan 16 on having any additional meetings like this?
17 MR. ADAMS:
The next planned meeting of this 18 type would be at the license termination stage.
As we go 19 through the process, there is always the possibility that 20 we will have meetings with the licensee, like we have in 21 the past.
22 And as, in the past, those are public 23 meetings, they will be notice, the public will be aware of l
24 those meetings, and they are invited to attend.
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with the licensee.
2 MR. TYDEMAN:
Right.
3 MR. ADAMS:
So that will continue, if we have 4
meetings of that type.
But this type of forum, the next 5
one that would be planned would be when the license 6
termination plan is put in.
7 MR. TYDEMAN:
Okay.
8 MR. FULLER:
Just following up on that last 9
question, my name is Ernest Fuller.
There had been public 10 meetings or meetings that were made public between the NRC 11 and GPU over the past many years, as you mentioned.
12 The last one was early last year, and 13 apparently now you are having weekly telelphone 14 conversations with GPU to deal with things.
Is it 15 possible either to somehow make those meetings more public 16 so people can see them, or are you having public meetings 17 to discuss what is going on, or what?
18 MR. ADAMS:
They are not public meetings.
19 MR. FULLER:
I know.
20 MR. ADAMS:
I mean, we pick up the phone and 21 talk to licensees all the time.
22 MR. FULLER:
Right.
l 23 MR. ADAMS:
And the licensees talk to us, to i
24 facilitate our regulatory process.
The public meetings, l
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I 108 have been to discuss specific aspects of licensing actions 1
2 we have taken.
3 The weekly telecons we have with the licensee, 4
as Tom explained, we ask, what have you done last week, 5
what do you plan to do next week.
That is basically the 6
essence of the conversation, and we are doing that so that 7
we are on top of what is going on there.
8 And if the licensee says to us, well, next 9
Tuesday we plan to do this and it is something that we 10 feel is significant, then we have forewarning, and we can 11 plan to be on-site and observing.
12 Do you have anything to add, Gene?
i 13 (No response.)
~
14 MR. ADAMS:
The telephone calls are not, you 15 know, everything we do is not a public meeting, or else it 16 would be really hard to do things.
17 MR. FULLER:
I understand that.
18 MR. ADAMS:
Just like inspections occur, and 19 they are not public meetings.
So -- I mean, that is the 1
20 best I can answer your question.
21 If something is raised, if something comes to 22 the level where we would need to have a significant 23 discussion with the licensee, say, to understand their l
l 24 tech spec amendment request that they have in front of us, 25 we would have a public meeting like in the past.
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i 109 1
So if they are coming to us to sit down and we 2
are talking significant issues, then that is a public 3
meeting.
i l
4 MR. FULLER:
I guess there hasn't been 5
anything like that for the past year, then?
I 6
MR. ADAMS:
No, there hasn't.
Any other l
l 7
questions?
8 (No response.)
9 MR. ADAMS:
I'd like to thank you for coming, 10 I'll remind you again that if you have any comments you 11 want to make on the PSDAR you can submit them to us in 12 writing, you have our address, the Federal Register Notice 13 has the address, and comments on the PSDAR will be 14 considered as we look at the informational requirements.
15 MS. ICKES:
I want to thank you all for 16 attending, and remind you that the next meeting of this
?
\\
l 17 group will be held in March.
Sylvia, I'm not sure of the 18 date, the 10th?
l 19 March the loth, yes, at 7 o' clock.
We hope to 20 see continued public involvement in this project.
Thank 21 you.
22 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter was 23 adjourned at 9:37 p.m.)
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