ML20134J716
| ML20134J716 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 03/08/1996 |
| From: | NRC |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20134J707 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-96-485 NUDOCS 9702120261 | |
| Download: ML20134J716 (52) | |
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA M
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION -
l 3
i l
l 4
OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5
INTERVIEW l
6
X j
7 In the Matter of:
^
t 8
INTERVIEW OF Docket No.
)
(not assigned) 9 GARY LEE PHIPPS i
10 11
X 12 Friday, March 8, 1996 13 i
14 3793 NE Ocean' Blvd.
I 15 Hutchinson Island 16 Jensen Beach, Florida 17 18 The above-entitled interview was conducted at 19 8:30 a.m.
20 BEFORE:
21 JAMES DOCKERY, Investigator 22 nformation in this record was deleted 23 n accordance with the Freedom of information tt, exem tions l'.
~~
F01A-9, " N 24 Q
EXHIBIT N/
2O95-0i PAGE '
OR31PAGE(S 25
.t NEAL R. GROSS 97c2120261 970211 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISER$
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<m exan WASHINGTON D C. M005 (M N 7c$
1 APPEARANCES:
2 3
On behalf of the U.S.
Nuclear Reculatorv 4
Commission:
l 5
JAMES DOCKERY, Senior Special Agent I
. i
)
6 Office of Investigations
?
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission d
8 101 Marietta Street 9
Suite #2900 10 Atlanta, GA 30323 11 (404) 331-6502 d
12 13 On behalf of the Interviewee:
Gary Lee Phipps, PRO SE 14 15 76 16 l'~
17
~
~
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS i
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__.-__--7 9
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
(8:43 a.m.)
3 MR. DOCK 2RY:
On the record.
For the' yecord, 4
today is March 8th, 1996.
The time is approximately 8:45 5
a.m.
6 My name is James D.
Dockery, Senior Specia.L 7
Agent with the Office of Investigations, Nuclear 8
Regulatory Commission.
9 During this proceeding, which is being 10 recorded for transcription, the Office of Investigations 11 is conducting an interview of Mr. Gary Phipps.
This 12 interview pertains to OI Investigation Number 2-95-008.
13 The location of the interview is Jensen Beach, Florida.
i 14 Mr. Phipps, would you raise your right hand, j
15 please?
16 Whereupon, 17 GARY LEE PHIPPS i
18 was called for examination and, having been first duly 19 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
20 EXAMINATION 1
21 BY MR. DOCKERY:
22 0
would you state your full name for the record, 23 please.
24 A
Ghry Lee Phipps, P-h-i-p-p-s.
25 0
Your date of birth?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON D C. 20005 (202) 2M i
1 A
l g
2 O
And your s ial security number, please.
7 3
A i
4 O
Mr. Phipps, before we went on the record here l
5 today, I showed you a copy of Section 1001 of Title 18 of 6
the United States Criminal Code.
Is that correct?
7 A
Yes, you did and explained it.
J 8
O And you understand how that applies to this 9
proceeding?
10 A
Yes, I do.
11 Q
Mr. Phipps, you have submitted a complaint 12 both to the Department of Labor and the Nuclear Regulatory
~
13 Commission that claims that you were subject to l
14 discrimination by your employer.
Is that correct?
I 15 A
Yes.
16 0
Who is your employer?
17 A
Florida Power and Light.
18 0
What is the status of that complaint with the 19 Department of Labor?
20 A
They found in my favor and then Florida Power 21 and Light went through appeal.
We were scheduled to go in 22 front of a court hearing.
And because it was going to go 23 to court, I got a lawyer and we settled out of court.
24 Consequentlyf the court and all that has been cancelled 25 off.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2W
o 1
It was -- I don't know how to s'ay it.
It was 2
kind of cancelled off by both parties, in the sense that I 3
feel my position is right and they feel their position is 4
right.
That's just the way it is.
5 Q
Nobody has accepted any responsibility for 6
wrongdoing.
That is correct?
7 A
Absolutely, they did not accept any 8
responsibility.
9 Q
I obviously have read a copy of your complaint' 10 and some other documentation.
What I want to discuss here 11 today is some specifics regarding that complaint.
The 12 complaint I think stands on it itself, but I would like to 13 fill in some blanks that I have.
14 A
No problem.
That's what we're for.
15 Q
First of all, from the standpoint of who is 16 responsible for discriminating against you, I want you to 17 identify who that is within Florida Power and Light?
18 A
Well, I feel that after I identified this 19 problem to my union representative and he went to the 20 nlant manager and explained the situation -- and I do 21 believe that you have a copy of my original draft which I 22 was going to submit, but it really wasn't proofed out l
23 yet.
j 24 When I showed him a copy, I did not give him a 25 copy.
The reason is to show him the seriousness of what I NEAL R. GROSS COURT P.EPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLANO AVENUE. N W.
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6 was saying and I was very concerned and ver'y unhappy with 1
2 the avents of what was happening.
3 I believe you have a copy of this.
This is an i
4 4
original draft.
It wasn't proofed.
Later on, I gave you 5
the final copy which is this.
You have this copy.
6 0
Okay.
I have this.
What you're showing me is 7
a memorandum dated April lith, 1995.
I do have a copy of 8
that.
That's what we consider constitutes your complaint 9
against Florida Power and Light?
10 A
Yes, sir.
This here was drafted in October, 11 shown to the president of the local.
I've got his name 12 here, Rick Curtis.
And he went to the plant manager and i
4 13 explained the situation.
14 The plant manager, of course according to 15 contract, they couldn't work outside workers without 16 giving us an opportunity to work first.
So what they did 17 instead of working myself, they first were going to offer 18 Jim Lewis, who is senior to me --
19 Q
I understand all that.
All that is in your 20 complaint.
That is very clear.
21 A
The point is that the plant manager knew that 22 there was a discrimination.
I felt I was being 23 discriminated against.
There were no bones pulled about 24 it.
It stated it very specifically.
And he chose to 25 circumvent the situation again.
I think that there was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 2364433
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from the production supervisors to the INC Department i
i 2
heads and even including the plant manager.
I think it 1
3 lies in the plant manager's hands.
4 O
Who is the plant manager?
5 A
At the time, I think it was Chris Burton.
Let i'
6 me double-check.
I'm bad at names.
7 Q
We're talking about whoever was the plant i
8 manager in 1994?
9 A
Yes, sir.
j l
10 Q
You don't remember who that was?
11 A
I believe it was Chris Burton, but I'm not 12 totally positive.
I thought I had it written down here.
i 13 Q
It is.
It's on your complaint, Chris Burton, i
14 plant general manager?
15 A
Once he was made aware of it, he was supposed i
16 to put full corrective action into being.
I don't think i
17 he did.
l 18 Q
Who made the decision?
I mean, he wouldn't be 19 responsible for making the decision whether or not you 20 wviked.
Who made that decision?
21 A
He did.
He worked me, but he worked me in a 22 simulator and they paid me through the plant account, 23 instead of working me around the other INC specs in the 24 plant.
The whole object was to keep me out of the plant.
25 Q
How much money did you lose?
NEAL R. GROSS CX)URT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N.W (202) 234-4433 WASHWGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) M3
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A At that time, I didn't lose anything because 2
they made up every single hour in the simulator, had me do i
3 work or not work.
I was just there.
i 4
0 Your contention is that you engaged in 5
protected activity?
6 A
Yes, sir.
7 Q
I accept that as a given.
Everybody who works 8
in a nuclear plant engages in safety-related, protective 9
activity.
How did the plant manager know that you had 10 engaged in protected activity?
11 A
Well, first of all, the speak-out does go 12 through the plant manager, okay, with that routing.
I had 13 made complaints about the versatile indicators.
And I 14 also complained to Chuck Lechler (phonetic).
Let me get 15 this correct here.
Oh, my God, I can't believe it.
I 16 have to look it up.
I gave it to the person in charge of 17 the speak-out.
l i
18 0
That's documented in your complaint.
Right?
19 A
Yes.
Anyway, I talked to him and I'm sure 20 that the reports do go through the plant manager.
That's 21 the routing.
The other thing, I talked quite a bit about 22 the procedure that I was asked to circumvent steps.
23 0
Who was it?
What individual took exception to 24 your doing that?
25 A
James Kawa.
NEAL R. GROSS OOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSQtSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 234 4433 WASHMGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2344433
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O And he was.
2 A
He was the production supervisor and he was 3
the shift director at the time of that outage and he 4
personally like supervised me.
5 0
And Mr. Kawa his name is spelled K-a-w-a?
6 A
Yes.
7 O
What did he say or do to you that caused you 8
to believe he took exception to your engaging in protected 9
activity?
10 A
Well, he took exception to the fact that under 11 the particular mode we were in on the plant condition, 12 that I could go ahead and put the transmitters back in or 13 do anything I wanted to do, because they had no bearing on 14 the safety-related person in the plant.
I told him I had 15 a problem with the system configuration problem.
Being 16 that I'm working on a part-time basis, that if I put this 17 back in and go on to the next transmitter and do work and 18 find it bad and put it back in.
19 And then I go on to the next one and I don't 20 come back until next week or 11 I don't come back and I i
i 21 start doing another job, don't do the same job, I can't be 22 guaranteed of the continuity.
And there's no proper 23 documentation to let the operations department know that 24 this is really not in service.
When I throw the 25 bi-stables and the circuits back in --
NEAL R. GROSS 000RT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W Gor) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 G02) 2344433
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O I understand all that.
That's in your 2
complaint also.
3 A
Right.
4 Q
What did he do?
How did he convey his 5
displeasure to you?
6 A
There was some verbal going back and forth.
7 It wasn't anything cursing or anything like that.
My 8
explanation to him was you can order me to do it and in 9
the morning I'll take it up with whoever I have to take it 10 up with.
I gave him the alternative.
You can call the 11 shift supervisor and if he says okay, I'll do it and go 12 about my business.
13 If something happens, a licensed individual 14 who is responsible for the system configuration and the 15 plant safety took that responsibility.
And my experience 16 is he wouldn't do that.
17 O
That happened when, during the outage?
18 A
During the outage in '94.
19 Q
Earlier '94?
l 20 A
Yes, sir.
21 Q
I believe February of '94?
22 A
Yes, sir.
23 0
Did that incident continue to be a bone of 24 contention between the two of you?
j 25 A
No, it didn't seem like it was going to be a NEAL R. GROSS l
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1 bone of contention.
The idea -- the way I laid it out was 1
2 because I work in the simulator through the week and I j
3 only work on weekends and part time.
It was a bohe of 4
contention with him, the fact that we didn't have 5
continuity with the jobs.
Consequently, I wouldn't do 5
what he asked me to do because I couldn't control the 7
work.
8 But the truth of the matter is that even 9
though I work over there full-time for him, I couldn't do 10 it legally or properly beyond the shift, because the nexr.
11 day I might be assigned to another job.
I might be sick 12 or I might have a car accident and my work stands alone i
13 and documentation should be there and it wouldn't be.
14 O
Let me -- before we go any further, I'm j
15 looking at a copy and you have a copy also of your April 16 lith, 1995 complaint?
17 A
Right.
j 18 O
It's addressed to NRC Region II, to Oscar 19 DeMiranda and myself, Jim Dockery, also to the Department 20 of Labor, Wage and Hour Division.
21
Subject:
Florida Power and Light, 22 Management's Punitive Actions for Safety Concerns."
23 This is a true and correct statement of your 24 complaint against Florida Power and Light.
Is that 25 correct?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 MHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2364433 WASHINGTON D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
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A As best as I can explain it and it's complex.
2 That's how come it's very hard to see -- this is very 3
subtle things they're doing, I mean, just to keep' me from 4
working in the plant.
What does it matter, you got paid 5
the same?
Okay.
But it tells other workers and other 6
individuals you don't follow the game, you won't play.
7 0
Does everybody know that you -- well, first of 8
all, would you characterize yourself as a whistle-blower?
9 A
Yes, in this case.
10 0
Is everybody that you work with aware of that?
11 A
Most people have some awareness, not 12 necessarily by my open verbalness (sic), just the stuff 13 does get around the shop.
It's a small shop, 50 people or 14 so and a lot of friends and stuff like that.
1 15 0
Here's what I want to get to.
Under l
16 Department of Energy -- I'm sorry, Department of Labor 17 Laws and Nuclear Energy Act, discrimination is illegal, 18 discrimination against an individual for raising safety 19 and health concerns regarding the operation of the plant.
20 As such there are criminal sanctions that go along with 21 that.
22 What I want to try and do here today is 23 identify who is responsible for it, because that is the 24 individual that those criminal sanctions may apply to.
25 A
I cannot specifically see the smoking gun.
I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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13 1
know the results.
I know how it came about.
I know that 2
management, as a whole, got together and made these I
3 decision as a group.
4 4
Q How do you know that?
Was there a meeting 5
that you're aware of?
6 A
Yes, I believe so.
There was a meeting and
{
7 some of the results of that meeting was interpreted here 8
and was conveyed to Jim Lewis by Jim, my boss, Martin.
9 O
Let's step back.
When did this meeting take 10 place?
l 11 A
I have no idea.
I'm on night shift.
They're f
12 on days.
They do all kinds of things and I don't know.
13 All I see is results, but the statement here, okay, on 14 page 2 of my statement:
15 "For the similar personnel were not allowed to 16 work overtime unless it was made emergency repairs to get j
17 the simulator running.
That was the policy on October 26, 18 1994.
I had a conversation with Jim Lewis, simulator 19 coworker, at shift change.
He told me they came up with a 4
20 decision to work us in the simulator.
21
" Jim Lewis said that Jim Martin, head 22 simulator supervisor, said the INC Department to only 23 offer Jim Lewis the overtime in the plant.
Jim Martin 24 also said it would be unfair.
If they would not offer it 25 to both of you, they would not get either of you."
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRtBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2344433
14 1
Q We don't have to read from the' complaint 2
because I have a copy of that.
Do you know who attended 3
that meeting?
4 A
I have no idea.
5 0
You don't know when it took place?
6 A
No, sir.
7 Q
What do you consider the main act of 8
discrimination against you?
9 A
I consider the fact they tried to segregate me 10 from normal work activities.
11 Q
Who is they?
12 A
Plant management.
And specifically, I can't 13
-- you know, no one is fessing (sic).
No one says Mr.
14 Phipps, you don't want to.
We don't want you here 15 working.
No one would say that specifically.
I heard i
16 things like you're not qualified and I addressed that 17 situation.
18 And then it was:
You're not certified.
And I 19 addressed that situation, in the sense that I said, "I
20 worked two outages before.
I worked safety related 21 equipment, signed off safety documents.
And now I'm not 22 qualified.
You can hire guys off the street, work them on 23 systems that are safety related and that's no problem.
24 Now you can't work me in the plant."
25 Q
That's what you see as the act of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRtSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
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15 I
discrimination, the fact that they tried to keep you from 2
working in the plant during an outage?
{
3 A
Normal INC activities, right.
And yet,they'd 4
work street workers, outside workers, to do the same.
5 Q
You did not lose any money?
6 A
I did not lose money specifically.
At first, j
\\
7 they were going to, until I went to Chris Burton -- Rick i
1 8
Curtis.
Rick Curtis w2nt to the plant manager and 9
explained to him, you can't do this.
This is illegal 10 against the contract.
11 O
Rick Curtis is the union --
12 A
He's the president of the local union and 13 abides by the documents for contracts which we work under.
14 0
Your complaint says you're not seeking any 15 monetary gain, punishment or revenge for what you perceive 16 to be discrimination against you.
Is that correct?
i 17 A
Yes, that's what I said.
18 0
I'd like to you explain to me how -- why this 19 is anymore than a union grievance or a personnel matter?
20 A
Well, because if they start singling out 21 individuals and change their work activities, based on 22 issues they bring up or standing up for, hey I can't do 23 this.
Then it's one step further to segregating you to 24 move you out.
25 If I'm not qualified to work in the plant, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 23 4 433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 23M433 u
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I then I don't have any rights to go and do the activitics.
l 2
I'll be reduced in the amount -'
mrtime.
If they force 3
us to work overtime in the simulator and got all our work 4
done, instead of regular activities -- the contract says 5
we're supposed to be within 10 percent of overtime of the r
6 plant people.
- )
7 Q
That's all a union matter.
Right?
8 A
It's a union matter, but the idea was they 9
were trying to single me out.
10 0
That's what we have to focus in on?
11 A
That's really it.
That's because I brought up 12 safety concerns and people did understand that.
~
13 0
In great detail, tell me the connection i
14 between your bricking up the safety concerns and being 15 discriminated against, with regard to working in the plant 16 during the outage?
17 A
Well, I brought up a safety concern.
The next 18 time, we don't need you to work in the plant.
We have 19 enough people.
They could hire in enough people on the 20 outside that way they don't have to work me.
21 O
Isn't it normal to hire outside people during 22 an outage?
23 A
Yes.
24 Q
And isn't it fair to say that time is of the 25 essence during an outage?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRf8ERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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_... =. -
17 i
1 A
Yes.
And that was another consideration, I'm 2
sure.
They had a 38-day outage planned.
They don't want
^
3 any waves.
4 O
After you engaged-in your protected activity, 5
did anybody say anything to you that you should not have 6
engaged in that activity?
7 A-No.
8 0
Were there any complaints made against you for 9
engaging in protected activity?
)
1 t
10 A
No.
l 11 Q
Did the fact that you engaged in protected 12 activity in anyway appear in your performance evaluation?
13 A
No.
I gave you a copy of the performance 14 evaluation.
15 0
Yes.
For the record, I'll reflect that Mr.
16 Phipps has provided me, at my request, with copies of his 17 performance evaluations?
j 18 A
For the past five years and one supervisor who 19 did not put in an evaluation, but his -- the phone number 20 and stuff and contact are there.
21 O
I thank you for that.
22 A
It's kind of like, if you go back to the 23 diesel incident -- you remember that back in Turkey Point?
24 Here I said, I tried to bid up here.
I couldn't even bid 25 up here.
I don't know.
I don't accept.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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18 1
Q That was in 1991?
2 A
Yes, sir, I believe it was.
3 0
You received a letter of commendation',,J 4
believe, a Cross pen for the concern you raised at that 5
time?
6 A
Yes, sir.
7 0
And you were the --
8 A
Let me also ctate that my department head was 9
extremely unhappy, almost angry, couldn't understand why I 10 bought this up and what che diddly did it matter.
11 Q
That was in 1991?
12 A
Yes, sir.
13 O
After 1991, after bringing that up, you had 14 received a letter of commendation?
15 A
Yes.
16 0
You received a Cross pen as an award and you q
17 were selected to come to work at the plant here in Port 18 St.
Lucie?
19 A
Yes.
After the first bid was excluded and j
20 then they had to repost it.
Then after reposting it, then 21 they lost it, a certified letter they lost.
22 Q
The fact is:
You ended up getting the 23 position?
24 A
I ended up eventually getting the position, i
25 correct, after I wrote a letter to the vice president.
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1 O
That position is as an INC technician in the 2
simulator?
I 3
A Right.
4 0
Is that a pretty good job?
5 A
It's the premium job on the plant, I'd say.
6 O
And you work nights?
7 A
Yes, sir, 11:30 to 7:30.
8 0
That's at your wish?
9 A
Yes, sir.
I like night shift.
10 0
For the record, so we're clear, identify your 11 supervisor in your current position?
12 A
Don Houldsworth.
He's my immediate 13 supervisor.
He comes in about 5:30 in the morning, checks 14 on the simulator status and activity.
15 O
Spell his name for the record.
16 A
First Don, D-o-n.
Then H-o-u-1-d-s-w-o-r-t-h.
17 0
He's your current supervisor?
18 A
Yes.
19 0
How often do you see him?
20 A
Four times a week.
j 21 O
Has he ever in anyway discriminated against 22 you?
23 A
No.
He said some things that were kind of out 24 of context and incorrect and we had a beef about it.
But 25 his actions are generally very much aboveboard.
He's a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1373 T4H00E ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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20 1
very professional men, very knowledgeeble man and 2
generally, very fair.
3 0
What >~a just referred to regarding ybur 4
conversation you had with him, according to your j
5 complaint it happened on February 14th, 1995?
i 6
A Yes, sir.
7 O
My understanding from reading the Department 8
of Labor investigative report, that you withdraw that 9
complaint against Mr. Houldsworth.
Is that correct?
10 A
My point is that Mr. Houldsworth said this 11 thing because his priorities for the simulator work he 12 thought might have been in jeopardy.
He said some things 13 out of context that you just can't properly say.
14 He didn't understand that I had no control 15 over what other managers were doing.
And that the 16 activity that I was doing was proper and legal.
He did 17 not take any specific actions on me.
It's just that he 18 verbally said some things that 'ere very wrong.
I don't w
19 think he meant it, like some people say things on the spur 20 of the moment, but they don't follow through.
21 Q
How is your relationship with him now?
22 A
It's not bad.
He's a gruff guy.
That's Don.
23 It's just, like I said, we have a professional 24 relationship.
25 O
So you don't have any specific complaint NEAL R. GFMDSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2364433 WASH 0NGTON. D C. 20006 (202) 2Sd 'dii
21
~.
t i
1 against him?
2 A
No, sir, I do not.
I 3
O Who is his direct supervisor?
r 4
A Jim Martin.
i 5
Q Do you have any complaint against Mr. Martin?
i i
6 A
No, sir.
Mr. Martin is a professional, acts 7
that way.
I think that some of the problems he's related f
8 down to me were given to him from above, not under his i
4 9
control.
10 0
From your complaint, I understand that your i
11 coworker in the simulator is Mr. Lewis?
12 A
Yes, sir.
i 13 O
That's James Lewis?
f i
14 A
Yes, sir.
15 0
How do you get along with him?
i i
16 A
Fine.
We see each other in the morning, l
17 usually spend 15 minutes to a half hour.
Once in awhile, i
l 18 we've gotten together and worked on computers -- our home 19 computers and different things like that.
20 Q
You have a relationship with him outside the 21 plant?
22 A
Minimal.
Yeah, but it's minimal.
I'm so busy 23 we don't see each other that often, once a month or once 24 every couple' months.
25 0
Do you have any relationship with Mr.
NEAL R. GROSS i
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1 Houldsworth outside the. plant?
2 A
No.
3 O
Mr. Martin?
4 A
No.
5 0
Who does Mr. Martin report to?
6 A
Training supervisor, I forget his name.
7 0
Is he anybody you have ever had a problem 8
with, from the standpoint of feeling he discriminated 9
against you?
l l
10 A
No, I hadn't even had any kind of real 11 business dealings with him.
i 12 O
For clarification, Mr. Phipps, in your 13 complaint, the term "up-relieved" is used.
What does that
]
14 mean?
I'm not familiar with it.
4 15 A
That means a person that is in a, let's say I
16 for instance, a position, a journeyman might. ave up to
]
17 supervisor position.
Or in another case, a person that is 18 a helper or a cleaning-type person up-relieves to i
19 journeyman-type shot.
i l
20 0
Is that a temporary?
21 A
It's a temporary situation.
It's like I move i
22 from the training simulator over to the INC shop 23 temporarily.
It's a temporary relocation.
In this i
24 particular case, it's quite a bit of money, A lot of 25 money is involved.
When he up-relieves -- I think, we're 4
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRAPSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W.
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3 I
talking about Jone.
2 Q
No.
I just saw the term here up-relieved?
3 A
Jose Hernandez, one of the co-workers I was 4
working with, he normally works for the health physics 5
department.
He's what they called a de-conner.
He cleans 6
contaminated things and stuff like that.
I think he's a 7
utility worker of some classification.
i 8
When he up-relieves, it's about $10 an hour 9
additional pay, plus the overtime rate of time-and-a-half, 10 times additional monies and stuff.
It's very significant 11 to him.
12 O
So it sounds to me like a temporary promotion?
13 A
Is a temporary promotion.
After the outage, 14 he goes back to his normal classification.
15 0
Have you ever been up-relieved?
16 A
Yes, sir.
~
17 Q
When was the last time?
18 A
Maybe 1988.
I was up-relieved to INC 19 supervisor.
I was up-relieved for almost a year at one 20 time.
21 Q
You mentioned James Kawa earlier?
22 A
Yes.
23 O
He was your?
24 A
dupervisor that I reported to when I went over 25 to the INC Department to work on a temporary basis for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRGERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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24 i
1 overtime.
And that to me is pretty significant because 2
that's time and a half and double time.
3 0
How is your re:ationship Mr. Kawa now?,.
4 A
I don't talk to him.
5 O
Is that your choice or his?
6 A
Basically my choice.
I don't choose to 7
confront anything.
I don't 8
O What position is he in now?
9 A
I think he got a promotion over to another 10 department.
Significant management changes happened since 11 all this stuff went on.
The department head, the two 12 production supervisors were changed out, of course, the 4
4 13 plant manager, the vice president.
14 O
When did all that happen?
i 15 A
Within the past year.
16 O
That is as a result of your action?
17 A
No, not specifically.
18 0
How about non-specifically?
19 A
I imagine it was a factor involved with all 20 the rest of things that were going on in the plant.
21 Q
Let me go through your complaint here for a 22 minute.
23 A
I need some clarification here.
You might j
24 have a better understanding of the situation when I came t
25 up here how'this plant ran.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RMODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (200 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) N
so 1
O I don't want to get into how this plant ren.
2 A
No problem.
3 0
I'm concerned with you, specifically and what 4
has happened to you, specifically?
l t
i 5
A Okay.
Like I said, the reason understanding i
6 might be beneficial is that they ran to a different set of l
7 rules than everyone else has.
And I came from another i
8 plant that has to conform very strictly to the NRC 9
regulations.
10 0
Are you saying this plant does not conform to i
11 NRC regulations?
12 A
It did not.
13 Q
In what way?
14 A
They feel if it's in writing as long as the 15 situation warrants it, we can do what we want to do.
They 16 don't realize in procedures and stuff like that, if it's 17 in writing, you have to have an out in writing, otherwise 18 jca follow it.
It was not a concept with them.
19 0
Who is "them"?
20 A
Most supervisors that were at this plant.
21 That was from the plant manager on down.
For instance, 22 they had a very hard time when temporary employees, we 23 call itinerants, went from Turkey Point up to here.
The 24 reason is that they wondered what in the world is going 25 on.
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26 I
e 1
There's no procedures.
They couldn't even l
^
2 provide calibration sheets, proper calibrations sheets 1
that told you exactly what you need to do.
You had to
.I 4
pick which calibration sheets were right.
l 1
4 5
That has been corrected since.
At the time 1
6 when I arrived there, that was basically the situation.
J 4
j 7
You had to go through a file and pick out which 8
calibration sheet seemed the most appropriate.
l 9
0 That seems like a technical matter.
To your i
10 knowledge, has the NRC dealt with that?
I i
i 11 A
Yes, sir.
s 12 O
Has things changed?
13 A
Yes, sir.
What I'm saying is:
That is the j
14 mode at which they are operating, i
I j
15 Q
How did that affect you?
16 A
I know the laws and rules.
I personally can't i
17 operate that way.
I need to more or less cover my butt, 18 because you don't know what might happen downstream.
And l
l 19 they're going to come back on you.
I think this last year
{
20 has been -- or year-and-a-half has been very typical of i
i 21 the plant getting caught up with years and years of abuse.
22 O
How it is running now?
23 A
They're working at it.
Of course, you know 24 the most recent incident.
Right?
A guy was making a
}
l 25 reactor change and walked off.
I NEAL R. GROSS 4
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1 0
I wouldn't necessarily be familiar with that?
l 4
2 A
That's a significant violation.
Something l
l 3
similar happened down at Turkey Point.
The lessons they l
4 got down there they didn't abide by up here because l
5 they're-different.
6 0
Referring to your complaint, Mr. Phipps, this 7
is at the bottom of page 4 of your complaint.
I'll read l
i 8
the statement that you make.
[
t 9
"I feel the start of the point of 10 discrimination was October 26, 1994.
That is when the 11 final decision was made not to work me in the plant."
l 12 Who made that decision?
j 13 A
Apparently, Human Resources contacted Jim f
3 14 Martin.
And Jim Martin relayed that back down through Jim l
l i
i 15 Lewis and to my boss, Don Houldsworth, to me.
16 O
Do you know who at Human Resources?
l t
f 17 A
No, sir.
Like I said, I think they had a i
b 18 meeting.
That wasn't an individual.
It was -- how to put t
i 19 it, when you have a group of people making a decision and I
r j
20 something of that nature is a conspiracy.
21 0
That would be true if they got together and 1
22 agreed to do something illegal.
Would you have any idea 4
23 who that was?
24 A
do, sir.
I'm not privy to that information.
25 'I just know the results.
[
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28 1
Q Who do you think I could talk t'o that would i
2 know who that was?
3 A
Well, I think that one of the men woul,d,be 4
Chuck Scott, and his boss, Andy DeSoiza.
They had 5
discussed that situation and those issues.
And any 6
meetings or prior to and the meeting with department head 7
and what-have-you were discussed through them and the 8
plant manager.
9 Q
Would you spell Mr. DeSoiza's name for this 10 nice, young lady?
11 A
- Yes, D-e-S-o-i-z-a.
12 O
What is Mr. Scott's position?
You mentioned 13 Chuck Scott?
14 A
Chuck Scott, he's in human relations.
He's 15 under Andy DeSoiza.
Specific titles, I don't know.
What 16 can I say.
17 Q
There was an outage in February of 1995?
18 A
Yes, sir.
19 O
As I understand it, you were called in to do a 20 special jub at Lhat time in the planL?
21 A
Yes, sir.
They had a call up.
They couldn't 22 get enough personnel f rom the regular depart?.nent to go up 23 on top of the pressurizer at power and install vibration 24 sensors.
The point was they were trying to determine the 25 leaks and where they were.
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_.l 29 1
Okay.
It's very hrat, very nasty job; 150, 160 2
degree temperatures, stay-time very short; radiological 3
problems there; dangerous situation.
If you feel', you 4
might not get back up because you hit a pipe or something 5
like that, even though you had insulating clothing on, you 6
might get trapped.
The pipe temperatures were melting the 7
boots.
8 0
Was your being called on to work that 9
particular job, was that punitive?
10 A
No, sir, absolutely not.
It was voluntary.
11 They were looking to get work done.
Like I said, they can 12 call me to do nasty jobs, but when it was the regular 13 outage to do normal work, they couldn't use me.
14 0
Did you have any special expertise that 15 applied to that particular job?
16 A
Yes.
I've been in many situations like that 17 before.
I have 18 years experience with the company.
18 0
I kind of gathered from your complaint that 19 you had some special ability that perhaps these other 20 people didn't have to perform that particular job?
21 A
No.
That wasn't why I was called out.
It's 22 just according to the contract that they called me out.
23 0
So that particular incident that was done 24 according to the contract and according to whatever 25 regulations?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005 (202) 2 % 4433
. - ~. ~ _ _ _
30 t
1 1
A Yeah, right.
The point is that I can work i
i 2
and do jobs, you know, even the hard jobs, willing to j
3 work.
But on the regular basis and stuff like that, they 4
don't think they need me.
When they can't get anybody l
5 else, you know, they'll scrape the barrels and.take who 6
they have to get.
7 As you know, when they went down to the 8
regular outage, they didn't ask me over.
And I objected
{
9 to that and I told them:
"What is going on here?"
"Well, 10 you're no certified yet." "What do you mean?
I'm 11 certified enough to go up there and work in those 12 conditions and I'm not certified to work in your plant."
13 O
Has that question been answered now?
14 A
Yes, sir.
They went through and finally made 15 an evaluation, almost two years later since I arrived on 16 plant.
After I provided the documentation from my 17 previous plant, then they took that and made some 18 evaluations.
I had some objections about some things they 19 should additionally qualify me for, general things like 20
" ray-cheming" (phonetic).
21 Do you know what that process is?
22 Q
Yes, I do.
23 A
If I'm qualified at that plant, I should be 24 qualified at this plant.
Yet I'm not.
I tried to fight i
25 them and it's a bureaucracy.
I don't know.
They gave me NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TPANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (atm 2344433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
31 1
a general plant qualification and some of the specifics l
2 they left out.
I don't think they did a real thorough job 3
in some cases.
4 0
I keep coming back to the question of if I 5
were to identify an individual or individuals who micht be J
6 subject to criminal sanctions for discriminating against 7
you, who would I be looking at?
8 A
Well, I would certainly start with Andy 9
DeSoiza and talk to him about meetings that they had prior 10 to.
The other thing that was amazing to me was the plant 11 manager again was privy to this information.
12 Yet, later on, I think it was in February, I 13 went up and I actually went -- let's get the exact date 14 here -- I actually went into the office and confronted 15 Andy DeSoiza because I was getting short on time.
See if 16 I can get the date of the first meeting.
He was in total 17 shock.
He never even understood the fact that I had felt le discriminated against.
19 Q
Did he discriminate against you, do you 20 celleve?
21 A
Well, if he, as part of those decisions, 22 realizing the fact that I felt I was uiscriminated against 23 and he was looking to please management and try to 24 manipulate the rules to keep me out the plant, because 25 they felt it was better for the plant or something like NEAL R. GROSS OOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHtNGTON, D.C. 20005 (202) 2W
___.m_._.__
1 that, I think, yeah.
2 Q
So you think that the Office of Investigations 3
should look at Mr. DeSoiza as a possible criminal'. target?
4 A
I think they should look at that chain there, 1
5 the H.R.
chain, from Chuck Scott, Andy DeSoiza, the plant l
6 manager.
Those are people that are the privy.
They know.
i
\\
i 7
They know who's making decisions.
They know what was 8
said.
I'm sure Rick Curtis, you should ask him more 9
specifically about what he said to the plant manager.
10 Q
Rick Curtis again is-the union president?
11 A
Union representative.
I wasn't in the meeting 12 that he went and talked to Chris Burton, but I did show 13 him that letter.
Did you ever get a copy of that, because 14 I turned it over to one of the NRC guys, my original 15 draft?
16 Q
No.
As a matter of fact, this complaint makes 17 reference to a letter that I did not get.
18 A
Well, if you need a copy -- like I said, this 19 is the original draft.
I was just trying to put down what 20 I was feeling and what I was thinking.
I was intending to 21 write to the NRC and I had second thoughts.
Well, look, 22 let me let my union know personnel have one shot at this.
23 okay.
And that's what I did.
24 This isn't exactly full and complete, but it 1
25 does summarize that I was in that modality.
I was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 MH00E ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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33 I
t 1
thinking those terms.
I did express the fact that I felt
)
2 discriminated against and felt that they were illegal i
3 against the contract.
4 O
Who did this letter go to, if anybody?.
5 A
It didn't go to anybody at the time.
I showed l
6 Rick Curtis and let him read it fully and he took it 7
pretty seriously.
I did give it to one of the NRC l
8 inspectors who interviewed me.
l.
9 O
Ron Fields?
10 A
Ron Fields.
11 O
He's an agent.of the NRC, Office of the 12 Inspector General?
13 A
Yes, sir.
He interviewed me.
And during that i
14 interview, I gave him a copy of this.
15 0
I haven't seen the letter you're referring to.
16 And I assume you only have one copy?
17 A
I only have one copy.
I could have a copy 18 back to you this afternoon or I could mail you a copy.
19 0
I'll be gone this afternoon.
If you could i
i 20 mail me a copy of that?
1 21 A
No problem, I can do that.
Same address just 22 put Jim Dockery?
23 0
Yes.
After you showed that letter to your 24 union representative, he met he had a meeting with who?
l 25 A
The plant manager.
l NEAL R. GFU3SS CDURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2364433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (302) 2344433
34 1
Q As a result of that meeting, what occurred?
2 A
They decided -- first off, it was discussed 3
about having Jim work over in the plant in the INC.
4 Department.
5 Q
Jim Lewis?
6 A
Jim Lewis.
They didn't feel I was qualified 7
or certified to work over there, even though I had worked 8
over there a couple outages previous to that.
They said 9
Jim had worked in the plant before that.
Jim only worked 10 seven months in the plant, Jim Lewis.
11 He's a very good INC technician.
This has 12 nothing to belittle him on.
He doesn't have half the 13 qualifications I do, especially in the nuclear industry 14 and documented.
15 When they came through and did the 16 evaluations, he had to go through twice as much to get 17 his certification that they wanted, to go into the plant, 18 that I did.
And the qualification sheets they had when 19 they looked them over, mine was twice as thick as his.
20 You have copien of his qualifications and stuff.
Right?
21 O
I believe so.
As a result of that meeting 22 between union representative and plant management, did you 23 eventually end up working in the plant?
24 A
I worked one time because I brought up an 25 incident in the previous outage about a hydrogen panel.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W l
taari2x u ss wAsswoTON. o c. acoos rm2) 2x*33 2
35 l
1 That's for the turbine generator system.
I made some 2
statements to the fact they had design problems.
~
3 Q
I don't think I made myself clear.
What I'm l
4 trying to get to is:
You went to your union 5
representative and complained about the fact you were not 6
going to --
)
I 7
A Work in the plant.
Right.
8 0
If I understand you correctly, he went to the i
9 plant manager?
10 A
Plant manager.
11 O
What was the result of that meeting?
12 A
They said we'd be worked in the simulator the 13 same amount of overtime as the contract personnel.
14 Q
Did that happen?
15 A
Yes, we did.
16 O
According to your complaint and some other 17 information that I've read, there was a particular need at 18 that time for overtime work in the plant simulator.
There 19 was lot of INC work that needed to be done.
Is that 20 correct?
21 A
Well, let me tell you this much, I got three 22 or four months ahead on my regular PM work.
23 0
"PM" being?
l I
24 A
Preventive maintenance and regular l
l 25 calibrations and stuff.
I got very far ahead.
After the l
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 234 4433 WASHINGTON, D C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
36 1
outage, it was a lot of loose time.
Does the make things 2
clear?
.I was doing work -- I worked, but I was doing work 3
that was normally scheduled for later on.
4 O
So it sounds like it was kind of advantageous 5
to you down the road because you were ahead of schedule?
6 A
Sure, in some case.
7 0
Mr. Martin, who was your supervisor then or a 8
supervisor manager, made some statements I think at the 9
time that it was important to have you available to work 10 in the simulator?
11 A
We were doing some modifications, okay.
Now 12 it also must be noted that had Mr. Martin -- the overtime 13 for us did not come out of his budget.
He loved that.
He 14 got a lot of work done and he didn't have to pay for it.
15 That was because, like I said, it was a contract-issue 16 thing.
And the plant manager said, "We'll pay for it, but 17 we don't want him working over here in the plant.
Work 18 him as you see fit."
19 O
Did either you or Mr. Lewis work during that 20 outage in the plant?
21 A
I did for one weekend 22 O
That was the job you described in the 23 high-heat area?
ho.
This was working on a hydrogen panel.
I 24 A
25 guess I've become quite an expert at a particular type of NEAL R. GFU3SS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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37
)
1 instrument we had down at the other plant.' I redesigned, 2
along with one of the other engineers, a new system for 3
it.
Before I could redesign a new system, we had to 4
operate the old system.
i 5
0 That was the incident I was referring to, 6
where you had special expertise?
7 A
Right.
8 0
You were called in by name?
9 A
I was called in by name because they said we 10 don't need you.
Yet they gave a temporary employee, who 11 was actually a former FPL employee the job to do and he 12 couldn't do it.
He came over to the simulator to have me 13 teach him what to do.
And my boss, Don was upset about 14 that.
15 And so my boss, Don, jumped on the INC 16 Department and said, "What the hell you doing?
You don't 17 need him and yet you can't do the work and you got people 18 coming over here to get all the information and so they 19 can do the work over there."
20 0
Don is Don Houldsworth?
j 21 A
Don Houldsworth.
Can you imagine that.
They 1
22 don't need me.
Yet they can't get the people over there 23 to do the work.
I'm not certified to go over and work.
24 Yet they have to come over to me to get the calibrations 25 so they can do the work over there.
It's a strange irony.
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38 1
Isn't it?
2 0
During outages when they bring in temporary 3
INC technicians, who would make more on a per-hour < basis 4
working in the plant during an outage, you or one of the 5
temporary workers that they bring in?
6 A
I would.
Then again, I'm -- by contract 7
issue, I was going to be worked anyway, you know, whether 8
they're there or they're not.
So they had to pay me 9
before they hired somebody else to work them.
That's the 10 other thing about the qualifications.
They're supposed to 11 take all qualified personnel and work them first, before 12 they work outside people.
13 That's how come Jose Hernandez was up-relieved 14 and he was allowed to work in the INC Department, before 15 they pulled outside workers to give them the premium 16 money.
It's a common sense thing, wouldn't you want to 17 work your workers first?
18 0
I'm referring again to your complaint both to 19 the NRC and Department of Labor?
20 A
What page?
21 0
Page 5, at the top of the page.
In that 22 paragraph there's a sentence quote:
23 "They want all their rights, even though 24 that's what lead them to this problem.
And I only wanted 25 to yield some of them for a short time -- I'm sorry wanted NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, O C. 20005 (302) 2344433
1 them to yield some of them for a short time."
j i
2 I'm not sure I understand what that. refers to?
2 3
A Okay.
What I was referring to and itv.s a fact 4
'4 that they tried to stick with the idea and said you're not 4
5 certified to work over here.
Okay.
Then they said that, 6
"Well, we don't have enough supervisors to give you close 7
supervision to go out and perform work in the plant."
8 Q
We've got to identify who "they" is?
9 A
They was -- like Tom Glen was one of the ones i
l 10 that made statements like that.
l 11 Q
Tom?
12 A
Glenn.
i 13 Q
G-1-e-n-n?
14 A
I believe that is correct, G-1-e-n-n, Tom 15 Glenn.
3 16 Q
Did Mr. Glenn discriminate against you in some 17 way?
l 18 A
I think he was part*of the overall decision, i
19 along with Mr. Kawa.
20 Q
What position was Mr. Glenn in at the time?
21 A
The way the INC department is broken down, 22 they have a department head and then they have production 23 supervisors.
One for unit one and one for unit two.
24 Mr. Kawa was one of the unit supervisors.
And 25 Mr. Glenn was one of the unit supervisors.
So they make NEAL R. GROSS CX)URT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS j
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40 I
their recommendations up to the department head and ha 2
reports to the plant manager.
3 0
Okay.
When you make the statement here, "They 4
want all their rights", what rights are those?
5 A
They have'the right to decide where I work and 6
what I do and what-have-you, okay.
And I acknowledge 7
that.
8 0
When you say "they" in that context?
9 A
Management.
Okay.
I'm referring to specific 10 meetings that we were having with Andy DeSoiza and Mr.
11 Scott.
12 O
Chuck Scott?
13 A
Chuck Scott, yeah.
In those meetings they 14 wanted to be very clear about what they can do and what 15 they can't do and what they did was all legal and perfect 16 and what-have-you.
They didn't want me to work in the
]
17 plant, if they didn't have to work me in the plant.
They 18 could work me in the simulator.
They can do what they 19 want.
To some extent, I can't argue with that.
But on 20 the other hand, I felt that it was an arbitrary decision 21 based on my actions.
22 Q
Let's get to that now, your actions.
When you 23 say your actions, you're referring to some protected 24 activity you engaged in?
25 A
A specific protected activity, I'm not totally NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCR40ERS 1323 RHOOE ISLAND AVENUE. N W.
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1 sure of.
I know one of them was in the procedural issue J
)
2 where I had a disagreement with Jim Kawa and over the
]
3 steps and what-have-you.
,i 4
0 That's documented in your complaint.
I'm i
5 aware of that.
6 A
Did you get a copy of that procedure and see 7
what the specific things that he asked me to do?
8 0
It probably wouldn't mean anything to me.
I 9
don't have the technical expertise.
Obviously, it's 10 important to you.
11 A
Sure.
It says do this, that's what it means.
12 I can't interpret it any other way.
When it says to put 13 it back in service.
That means operations feels that loop 14 is in service and it's operable.
It doesn't mean to put 15 it back in service and throw -- the indicators on the trip 16 logic is okay, but the transmitter is not even hooked up, 17 no tubing to it.
18 Q
How was that conflict, if you will, eventually 19 resolved?
20 A
He backed off and let us go ahead and replace 21 the tubing on that transmitter without going to other 22 transmitters.
I understand his point of production is to see if I put that one back in service, went onto the 23 l
24 next one and found out we had -- how many we had bad, then 1
l 25 we'd go in there in one shot and fix them all.
That does i
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make conce.
But that's not way the procedure is written.
2 There wasn't any flexibility I could find within the 3
procedure.
4 O
Let me -- again, I'm not I have no 5
technical expertise on this.
6 A
Sure.
7 Q
I want to understand what you're telling me.
8 The way he wanted to do it made sense, but procedurally, 9
it was your feeling it could not be done that way?
10 A
Right.
And it would be a violation of system 11 configuration.
I brought that up to him and that term 12 went of over his head apparently.
Their concept of system.
13 configuration a year and a half, two years ago is 14 completely different than it is today.
Today it's a new 15 ball game.
16 O
Would it be fair to say, Mr. Phipps, on that 17 occasion he yielded to your expertise?
18 A
Yes, becaus2 I gave him both choices.
I think 19 he might even have talked to the shift director at the 20 time.
I don't knuw.
But a shifL direclut wouldn't allow 21 me to do that because he would have to document it in his 22 books that it's out of service, if he did that.
When you j
i 23 take something out of the service you have throw the l
24 bi-stables, q
25 0
was that situation eventually resolved to your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND ThANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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catisfaction?
2 A
Yeah.
We just went ahead and repaired the 3
transmitters one at a time, until we got it fixed'.,,We did 4
it in the most expedient manner that we could.
5 0
The outcome of that event was within 6
regulations?
7 A
Within regulations, without a problem, just 8
grumbling on his part.
That don't bother me.
He can 9
have a problem with it.
And he might have thought I tried 10 to slow things down.
The comment was made I kind of 11 slowed things down.
I wasn't trying to slow things up.
I 12 was trying to do it right and cover myself and my actions 13 and activities to the best way I knew how.
14 O
Has anybody ever made the comment to you they 15 were going to get even with you or get back at you for 16 anything?
17 A
No, sir.
That's not the way it's worked.
18 0
You mentioned that you initially took your 19 complaint to Mr. Ron Fields.
Were you dealing with -- Mr.
20 Fields is the investigatur fium Lhe NRC InspecLv1 21 General's Office.
Were you dealing with him on another 22 matter?
23 A
Yes, sir.
He called me in to clarify some of 24 the statements I made.
f 25 Q
Actually, I'm not sure that I need to be privy l
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to that.
It's a matter unrelated to what we're talking i
2 about here today.
Is that correct?
3 A
Yes.
For the most part, yeah, it's unrelated.
4 It was things that happened down at the other plant.
l 5
0 So it's not I don't know of any 6
relationship that could exist between what you were 7
talking to him about and what we're discussing here today?
8 A
Right.
I was called in by him because he was 9
making a further investigation.
He wanted clarifications 10 when they had made an interview with me.
All I did -- he 11 was amazed.
I just come up and told him all the answers.
12 He was very happy with that.
13 At that time, I handed him that piece of paper 14 and explained to him that I felt this was one wrong.
And 15 I wanted the clock -- there's a six-month time period 16 which you have to report those things.
I wanted the clock 17 to start then.
It wasn't exactly how it had to work.
18 That's how come I had to eventually get this letter out.
19 Q
By this letter, you're referring to your April 20 lith complaint that we've been looking at here today?
21 A
Yes.
It had to in within the six-month time 22 period.
23 0
Referring to the Department of Labor time 24 period?
25 A
Right.
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45 l
1 Q
Which is the filing period?
l t
t l
2 A
Yes, sir.
But I did initiate with him.
Then l
l 3
he went and gave a copy, I think, to Oscar DeMiranda and i
4 then you were also involved thereafter.
l 5
O Right.
When did you settle with the company, 6
approximately?
1 7
A I had it here, too.
8 Q
I think I've got it.
Let me put it another 9
way.
Since you settled with the company, are you 10 satisfied with the way you've been treated?
11 A
Yeah.
I think there is a much deeper 12 understanding.
They're not going to tread in those areas 13 again.
I don't foresee -- I think a lot of people realize 14 I'm a good worker and a hard worker.
You can check with 15 the supervisors I worked with during the past outage.
16 Chuck Connell, I worked for him specifically.
17 O
When was most the recent outage, 18 approximately?
19 A
It was that huge outage where Unit II was down 20 for four months or five months.
21 Q
During 1995?
22 A
Yes, sir.
I worked over there full-time.
And 23 another guy, Andy -- I forget his name.
I'm so bad with 24 names.
I remember them if I walk out the door, of course.
I 25 Like I said, you can check.
They found out I was a very NEAL R. GFH3SS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTCH D C. 20005 (202) 234 4433
46 l
1 good, competent worker and worked hard end got things 2
done.
My paperwork is not exactly perfect.
That's 3
always been a problem.
',t 4
O Perhaps you can provide me with that name when 5
you send a copy of the other letter?
6 A
Andy Pauly.
He was the shift director.
Chuck 7
Connell was my direct supervisor.
In fact, they traded me 8
off to work for Jerry Schmitz (phonetic) because I had i
9 expertise on electronic controller stuff.
10 0
The point is and what I want to get at is:
11 Your relationship with those gentlemen has been 12 satisfactory.
Is that correct?
13 A
Absolutely.
They have a correct -- they're 14 new.
They're replacement for the other people and they 15 have the attitude that we're going to do it right.
I 16 think they always have had.
17 Like I said, it was some of them in realizing 18 my expertise on electronics and stuff like that, 19 especially on controllers, one of the guys from -- I 20 think, was from Rochestel doing lead-lag controllers and 21 stuff like that.
They were having problems with that 22 during the outage.
23 0
It sounds like your situation is satisfactory 24 to you?
25 A
Absolutely.
It's 180 from where it was.
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47 i
1 Q
Between the specifics of your complaint and j
j 2
the other documentation that you provided, I'd say 3
everything is pretty well documented and I have a' pretty 4
good understanding of it.
I don't have anymore questions e
5 to ask of you right now.
I may at some future point.
6 A
I'm a phone call away.
7 O
Before we go off the record, is there anything j
8 you'd like to add?
9 A
We concentrated more on when I worked the 10. previous outages and then the statements that why the 11 actual INC Department people didn't want me in there.
We 12 didn't talk very much about the indicator problems that I j
i 13 reported.
14 Q
I accept that as a given.
I don't know --
15 technically, I don't anything about that.
That has been 16 satisfied to your satisfaction?
17 A
Pretty much, yeah, I'd say so.
I asked the 18 NRC representatives here to take the opportunity to find 19 out what the periodic schedule of testing is and then to 20 go up and tollow through with the technician and observe 21 the test.
22 O
That's a technical matter that I'm not 23 qualified to address.
If you have something --
24 A
You've got to understand when I first bring it 25 to speak-out and speak-out brings it up, it eventually NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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48 j
1 got to the plant manager and back out.
I i
2 Q
The plant manager was?
l I
3 A
Chris Burton.
e j
4 O
Has the situation been resolved?
l f
5 A
Yes, they're addressing it.
And I think as 6
far as my safety issues with it, I think they're going to P
I 7
be resolved in the sense we're not going to have i
8 significant problems.
4 9
Q By all means, if they're not resolved, you l
)
10 should talk to the resident inspector or talk to Mr.
11 DeMiranda in the region?
I
~
12 A
I stated I had an interview with one of the i
13 NRC inspectors following through with that.
And his t
i 14 questions about why it took so long for the company to I
15 come forward and make these changes, why I kept having to 16 pursue it and bringing it up, even so far as putting a l
l 17 video tape up to the NRC.
Did you see that one?
18 O
No, I wouldn't necessarily see that one.
2 19 Again, that's a technical regulatory matter that I'm not l
4 20 qualified to deal with.
2 21 A
If you saw it, it's so blatant.
There's a 22 problem.
1 1
23 Q
For our purposes here today, as long as you 24 feel that's being addressed adequately --
j 25 A
Yes, sir, I do.
I believe it.
I have to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W.
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49 1
state it w:nn't cddressed until I started working on the s
2 shift and Chuck Connell and Andy Pauly were privy to the 3
information which was not given to them by the plynt i
4 management or senior plant management, because I gave them t
5 a copy of the video tape, too.
l
- i 6
It went from the vice president, even probably I
i 7
the president saw it, on down.
It just got stopped and l
8 stymied.
It never got down to the department head level.
a 4
9 I don't understand that.
I think it was a -- I believe it i
10 was conspiracy to minimize anything I said or did and to 2
11 ignore and to circumvent.
4 j
12 0
It must have come out somehow, because it's 13 being addressed now?
14 A
Absolutely.
That was after I worked in the
]
l 15 plant and after the immediate people became aware of it 16 and other technicians starting bringing up the issues
)
17 which they were ignoring before and telling the true 18 facts.
Then the management -- the new management actually 19 analyzed it ano realized there was a true problem.
20 Q
Okay.
The important thing is that problem is 21 being addressed?
22 A
I know.
Why such a gap?
Why did it take a 23 year?
24 0
I don't know.
j 25 A
Got it.
I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE, N W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON. D C. 20005 (202) 2344433
50 4
1 9
Anything else you want to odd?
2 A
No, I think you've covered it.
I'm not trying 3
to grind axes.
Like I said, I believe that the plant is 4
making some turnarounds.
Whether it stops, I don't know.
5 I want to work hard.
I want to try to make a decent 6
living.
I want the security that I'm not going to be l
7 manipulated around, because I feel that something should 8
be addressed.
9 In fact, you probably would never have gotten 10 a call or anything else, if they hadn't tried to l
11 manipulate me out of the plant or anything else, because I l
l 12 believe in going to the speak-out.
And I believe in l
13 letting the plant take care of plant business.
Or they're 14 going to have to cover their butts because once I report 15 it, that's what I'm supposed to do.
16 When they start trying to dip into my pocket 17 or manipulate the situation around, I have to sit there 18 and cay wait a minute.
The layoffs did concern me.
If I 19 was deemed not certifiable or qualifiable to work in the 20 plant, then I wouldn't be able to -- say for instance, a 21 layoff comes up, I wouldn't be able to bump back into that 22 slot.
You can't bump back in, you're not qualified.
23 0
of course, if anything like that does happen 24 in the future, you should make the appropriate complaints 25 to the NRC, Department of Labor or whatever.
As for the NEAL R. GFh3SS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRSERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (2(m N WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2M
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{
1 most recent events --
i s
2 A
I think things have turned around and working
)
3 in the proper way according to the contracts and 'according 4
to reasonable expectations and considerations.
In fact, I 5
was asked specifically, " Hey, you going to work over at 6
the outage this time?" I said, "It's not my decision.
7 Sure, I'll work over there.
You tell me what, when and I
8 where."
i j
9 That was Andy Pauly asked me that, looking i
10 forward, anticipating, because like I said, I work hard j
11 for him.
In fact, as you'll see my appraisals, they're 12 good appraisals.
13 0
All right.
You have nothing more to add?
1 14 A
Nothing more to add.
)
15 MR. DOCKERY:
We'll go off the record at i
16 approximately 10:00 a.m.
17 (Whereupon, at 10:00 a.m.,
the above-entitled 1
18 interview was concluded.)
19 20 1
4 21
~
22 1
23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRISERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVENUE. N W (202) 2344433 WASHWGTON. D.C. 20005 (202) 2344433
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATI t
2 3
4 CASE TITLE:
INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW OF 5
GARY LEE PHIPPS (CLOSED) 6 DATE:
March 8, 1996 7
LOCATION:
Jensen Beach, Florida 8
9 I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence w e 10 contained fully and accurately on the tapes and notes 11 reported by me at the interview in the above case 12 before the:
U.S. NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION.
13 14 15~
DATE:
Mar h 11, 1996 16
~
I 17 i
18
&1 J
u &V7tdoh
(
19 Official Reporter 20 Notary Public 21 22 My Commission Expires:
23 i
MARDalA A SAMum mamanneenfocmuM 24 erset e m.1st ammime use,nansinnsame 25 NEAL R. GROSS & CO.,
INC.
(202) 234-4433