ML20132E956
| ML20132E956 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 01/30/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20132E901 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8507180207 | |
| Download: ML20132E956 (35) | |
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1
()TGINAL l
UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION r-1 IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO:
INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW 4
LOCATION: HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA PAGES:
1 - 33 DATE:
WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 30, 1985
\\
AG-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OfficialReporters
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444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (202) 34~-3700 8507180207 850620 NATION %TDE COVERAGE PDR ADOCK 05000289 PDR
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.1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
2 2
4 INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW 5
OF 6
CRAIG C. FAUST 7
8 Killian & Gephart 216-218 Pine Street 9
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 10 Wednesday, January 30, 1985 11 12 The Investigative Interview of CRAIG C. FAUST 13 commenced, pursuant to notice, at 12:18 p.m.
14 BEFORE:
15 William T. Russell, Deputy Director Division of Human Factors Safety 16 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 17 Washington, D. C.
20555 18 Robert A. Capra, Senior Program Manager Staff of Executive Director for Operations 19 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 Washington, D. C. 20555 l
i 21 Smith B. Gephart, Esquire i
216-218 Pine Street' l
22 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 23 Harry H. Voigt, Esquire LeBoeuf, Lamb, Leiby & MacRae 2d 1333 New Hampshire Avenue, N. W.
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- * **'** ' ac-Washington, D. C.
20036 25
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s 1
PEQ(({g{ggE 2
(12:18 p.m.)
1 3
MR. RUSSELL:
I have asked that a second 4
transcript be started.
The date is January 30th.
The time 5
is 12:18, 6
By way of opening this, I would like to read 7
a statement from NUREG 680, supplement 5, concerning the 8
change in operator testimony during the GPU versus B&W law 9
suit trial.
10 This statement is on page 11-8.
The Office of 11 Investigations -- Investigation, identified conflicting i
12 testimony and statements by Frederick concerning his involvement
,3 fn the inclusion of HPI actuation at 0541 in the Licensees 1
l 14 sequence of events.
15 Whether Frederick was silent and never challenged 16 the inclusion of HPI actuation at 0541, as he testified during 17 the OI investigation and trial, or whether he insisted on i
18 including HPI actuation at 0541, as circumstantial evidence 19 and testimony of others indicates, cannot be resolved on the 20 basis of evidence developed by OI to date.
21 You were on Mr. Frederick's shift on the day i
22 of the accident, when the concerns with respect to an 0541 23 HPI actuation would have occurred, if it did.
i 2d
. We have reason to believe that that is an l
Ams _,w neomn. =.
l 25 extremely unlikely event, based upon a very detailed j
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reconstruction after the fact, which we also documented in 3
I 2
this report.
3 There were studies by GPU, studies by B&W, 4
for GPU.
There were independent studies done by NRC 5
consultants, and by the NRC.
Our conclusion was that if it i
6 did occur, it only occurred for an extremely short period i
7 of time, and based upon everything we have seen, we even think l 8
a short full manual high pressure injection actuation was
^
9 extremely unlikely.
l 10 What I would like to do now is to walk throu'gh l
11 the exhibits, and some of the stctements which resulted in that 12 particular event being included to get your comment to attempt i
}
13 to resolve the apparent conflict in testimony concerning Mr.
l 14 Frederick.
15 MR. CAPRA:
Do understand that we are not trying 16 to go back and revisit the issue of whether, in fact, there i
17 was or was not HPI actuation at 0541.
What we are trying to 18 clear up is the role that Mr. Frederick played in the initial 19 inclusion of that in the sequence of events.
When you thought ;
I 20 that that occurred.
Do you understand?
21 WITNESS: Yes.
22 MR. CAPRA:
Let me give you something first that 23 might help as we follow along.
Everything I am going to show 3
- 24 you has come out of the OI investigation of operator change Am' A Reporwrs, Inc.
25
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in testimony.
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1 There are many exhibits in here.
So, to help 2
us walk through some of these -- I don't intend to go through 3
all of them, and give you essentially a chronological listing 4
of exhibits that appear in this particular report.
Chronoligical 5
meaning chronological on the date that they happened, or the 6
date of the exhibit itself.
7 You start at the very top.
This happens to show 8
the exhibit number also.
With some of the original documents 9
that caused the inclusion of the 0541 HPI actuation into the 10 sequence of events.
And then later on, beginning I belie've 11 with Exhibit 44, the rest of those exhibits are all statements 12 of people taken during the investigation itself, about what they 4
l 13 knew about the sequence of things that had happened to try to j
i l
14 resolve the issue of whether or not there was any undue i
15 influence on you gentlemen, either the B&W litigation, to try l
16 to get -- to induce you to change your mind about the HPI l
17 actuation after it became an issue.
l 18 The thing that I have not included in here, which l 19 is on a separate sheet, is -- this i's a chronological listing i
i 20 of the exhibits that involved Mr. Zewe, yourself, and Mr.
l 21 Frederick as far as statements and when they were made.
l l
22 For example, in the OI Report, there are exhibits !
I 23 which -- beginning on April 21st 1979, where you made statements 24 g
to Mr. Marsh, Mr. Hunter, and Mr. Jackson, who were members of l Am e moorwri. inc.
25 the I&E TMI investigation _te_am, and there were some statements
5 I
that ycu made on, September 19, 1979, in a taped interview 2
before Mr. Keaton.
3 Then there are some excerpts from your deposition 4
associated with the GPU versus B&W law suit, and then finally, 5
there is your OI interview on_May_9_th, 1984, regarding this 6
particular investigation report.
7 MR. RUSSELL:
I would like to include into the 8
record at this point that the Staff did conclude in NUREG 0680, 9
Supplement 5, that there was not improper influence on the 10 part of the Company to influence operators to change their 11 testimony.
f i
12 MR. CAPRA:
The first exhibit I want to show i
s 13 you happens to be from.the B&W litigation that was, marked l
14 B&W Exhibit 283, which is an excerpt from the annotated 15 sequence of events dated _May 10th, 1979, Revision O.
f i
16 And I think you testified that the handwriting i
17 up there fully initiated HPI was, in fact, your handwriting.
i 18 WITNESS:
Right.
It looks like my printing.
19 MR. CAPRA:
Let me go through some of these 20 first.
The next exhibit is B&W Exhibit 666, which is a 21 memorandum from Gary Miller to the data reduction group, 22 care of Tom van Witbeck, dated May 21st 1979, in which he 23 said that the comments contained in this particular document I
i 2d 4
were comments that were generated as a result of PORC meeting, l As.
,e neoorws, Inc.
i 25 that is P-0-R-C -- PORC meetings that were held on May 14th, i
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I 16th and 17th, 1979, in which the document showed that PORC 2
attendees, among others, were yourself, Mr. Frederick, and Mr.
3 ZeWe.
4 And this particular document shows that as a 5
result of the PORC meeting, there was an event that was added 6
to the sequence of events.
It is written in here.
I am not 7
sure how you pronounce his name,
'Bezilla?'
8 By Mr. Bezilla, the PORC secretary.
Operators 9
manually initiated full HPI.
t 10 WITNESS:
These are just his notes.
11 MR. CAPRA:
They are his notes, but as PORC I
Ti at is just an excerpt of what was submitted mder 12
. secretary.
l 13 a cover memo from Mr. Miller.
14 If you recall, these PORC meetings -- the purpose 15 of the meeting was to go over with individuals, including the 16 operating staff, the sequence of events that had been generated!
17 by Mr. Van Witbeck's team, is that correct?
i 18 WITNESS:
Yes.
. j 19 MR. CAPRA:
The next exhibit is B&W 689, which 20 again is an extract of the sequence of events.
This one 21 happens to be Revision 1, dated -- I believe it is July 16, I
22 1979.
July 14, 1979.
It was determined during the investigation 23 that the particular comments that were made on this annotated l
j 24 sequence of events were the comments of Bob Long, and beside j
4.
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25 the entry where it says, ' operators manually initiated high l
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1 pressure injection,' again we are talking about the same time 1
2 period.
In Mr. Long's handwriting there is: 'Zewe, Faust and 3
Frederick insists this is the case.'
-4 WITNESS:
All right.
5 MR. CAPRA:
Again, Mr. Long has testified those 6
comments -- the handwriting is his.
~
7 WITNESS:
Sounds like the flow going up hill right 8
now.
9 MR. CAPRA:
Pardon?
10 WITNESS:
I shouldn't have said that.
I just l
11 said it sounds like the flow is going up hill right now.
12 MR. CAPRA:
Okay.
Again, this is another memo l
I 13 from Gary Miller, which is dated July 13, 1979.
It is l
14 identified as B&W Exhibit 754 or 759, I am not positive.
15 Again, it is a copy of the annotated sequence of 16 events, Revision 1, the same copy that we just looked at that l
17 belonged to Mr. Long, only Mr. Bewe has testified that the t
18 comments made on this particular document are his.
And his l
19 comments show he has written in here, because it was not i
I 20 included:
'1:40 - 45,' -- which is the time after the i
21 accident occurred, not clock time -
' operators manually
.I 22 initiated full HPI prior to tripping pumps.'
W. Zewe.
And 23 then in parenthesis, it says:
Previously comment.
24 Implying that he had made that comment before.
An' l Reporwes,Inc.
25 WITNESS:
All right.
i
.l 5
~
8 1
MR. CAPRA:
And it was not included.
2 WITNESS:
Okay.
3 MR. CAPRA:
Now, this is a copy of the final 4
technical data report that was submitted to the NRC, which 5
. forwarded the final version of the annotated sequence of 6
events, the release date of this particular document was 7
February 6, 1981.
3 On page 41 of this document, it shows that 9
at 0141, or 0541 clock time, operators manually initiated i
10 the safety injection portion of engineered safety feature 11 trains A and B, to supply additional cooling water to the l
12 reactor core.
13 It goes on after that.
But that is the por, tion l
14 I wanted for you to look at.
Now, in the right hand column l
1 15 it indicates the source by which all this material was j
16 included in the sequence of events.
It lists as reference 17 why this particular item was entered into the sequence, i
18 It lists reference 7, 8-D, and 9-D.
You can 19 go back and look at the list of references that have been 1
.'2 0 included here.
l i
21 Reference 7 is a memo from Mr. Van Witbeck i
22 regarding TMI-2 operating staff, PORC comments -- there is 23 a whole punched right through the word I am trying to read, so i 2
24 I am not sure exactly what it says, but essentially Mr. Van Ad, _.,e mammn, lac.
25 Whitbeck has testified that he wrote a memo after the PORC e
i
E 1
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9 l
9 1
minutes himself, in which comments were included.
2 That memo itself has never been retrieved, to 3
the best of my knowledge.
At least it wasn't during this 4
investigation.
We were never able to come up with a copy 5
of that memo.
So one of the references is not available.
6 The other references that were used are 7
reference 8.D and 9.D.
8.D is an interview of Ed Frederick, 8
dated March 30, 1979, and April 6, 1979.
They are two 9
separate interviews.
10 And reference 9.D is an interview with Ed i
11 Frederick dated April 23rd, 1979.
l 12 WITNESS:
Okay.
j l
13 MR. CAPRA:
Are any of these documents that i
14 I have just shown you that you haven't seen before?
15 WITNESS:
I don't remember. He didn't list it --
16 MR. CAPRA:
You mean the references?
17 WITNESS:
Yeah.
18 MR. CAPRA:
Do you agree that is what it says?
19 WITNESS:
All it is doing is doing what I I
20 initially started.
I thought HPI injection occurred at that i
21 point, and I wanted it in there -- not only I -- but I feel 22 like I am the guy that initiated it, wanted it in there.
23 And Bill was followine it uD.
i 24 MR. CAPRA:
Okay.
What we have just gone over 4
.c neseewri anc.
25 is, to the best of our knowledge, the only written record i
10 I
associated with how this particular item was incorporated 2
into the sequence of events.
Notes from people who participated 3
in meetings.
l 4
There is subsequently a voluminous amount of 5
testimony about those same few exhibits.
And the purpose of 6
going through the exhibits was to get that on the record 7
so that we can now discuss some of the background on them.
3 WITNESS:
Okay.
Do you want me to go through 9
_any of Bill Zewe's testimony?
10 MR. CAPRA:
No.
This is a -- I gave you a 11 copy of various -- chronological listing of your testimony, i
Whatthisisisasummaryof--thatIpreharedofyour 12 I
j 13 testimony associated with all of these particular documents.
I 14 If we start at the very beginning with the first 15 interview that covered this subject matter, it was on I
16 April 21st 1979, with the I&E investigation team; Mr. Marsh, i
17 Hunter, and Jackson.
l l
18 If we look at page 48 and 49, which I will show I
i 19 you in just a minute, okay, you make a statement -- this is l
l i
20 from:
'Something else I would like to emphasize is that 21 just prior to stopping those pumps, we did reinitiate -- we 1
22 hit high pressure injection just prior to stopping the pumps.
f 23 I don't know if that was brought up before.
It l
24 j
should be, though.'
4.
J n o or=r.Inc.
25 Do you recall that particular statement?
t
11 1
WITNESS:
I have seen it before.
I mean, it is 2
familiar to me, ves.
3 MR. CAPRA:
Then again, on pages 50 and 51, you 4
say -- again indicated that -- again you indicated that they 5
manually initiated ESS safety injection at a thousand gallors 6
per minute; 250 gallons per loop.
I think you have there 7
page 50.
8 I think you make the statement here the reason l
9 for the initiation was that you had voids in the loops, and 10 you were trying to establish natural pirculation.
II WITNESS:
This is a later one. ricrht?
l 12 MR. CAPRA:
Pardon me?
No, this is the same 13 interview.
14 MR. RUSSELL:
This is the April 21, '79 interview.
15 WITNESS:
This is where I am saying I was using -,
16 when I say, ' voids ' I don't think I was actually using that 17 term back before the accident.
18 MR. CAPRA:
I understand that.
You have testified' l
19 to that, and I think we will cover it later that that was not i
20 atermthatwasinyourvocabularyatthetimeoftheaccident.l 21 Thatitwasatermthatwaspickedupandutilizedbyyourself,j 22 the NRC, and everybody else after the accident.
23 MR. RUSSELL:
It is, however, prior to the PORC k
24 meeting.
4--pesese mese,wn,tae.
25 j
WITNESS:
Right.
This one is.
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1 MR. RUSSELL:
That is correct.
2 WITNESS:
I need to be --
3 MR. RUSSELL:
We are going over in great detail 4
the chronological development of this.
It is important to get 5
them in the right time frame, at least as I have read the 4
various investigations and other information.
We are somewhat 7
setting the stage right now, so if it. takes us a while to get I
s through it, bear with us.
We will shortly be to the new 9
questions.
10 WITNESS:
Okay.
11 MR. CAPRA:
Also on this particular interview, youl l
12 state that Mr. Frederick initiated HPI, while Faust tripped i
13 the pumps.
14 WITNESS:
Okay.
You want me to expound on that, j
)
15 do you?
You have to watch what I am saying here.
When I 16 say I tripped the pumps,' I took two of the pumps off, the i
17 first two.
I i
t 18 MR. RUSSELL:
Understand that.
I 19 MR. CAPRA:
I think that will come out later.
If i
20 you want to clarify that --
21 WITNESS:
I was just wondering if you were going 22 to ask or not.
It udght be comething to get on more what I l
23 actually did, because I was talking rather as a group at times !
24
--_for a group, instead of myself.
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j 25 MR. CAPRA:
Much of these interviews are also j
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confusing because there was no sequence of events that I am 2
aware of that you had in front of you, and you will find that 3
not just yourself, but Mr. Zewe and Mr. Frederick, in going 4
through this, periods of time are jumped, things are out of 5
sequence.
6 You may be talking about turning off the last 7
two set of pumps, yet in the previous paragraph you may have 8
been talking about closing the block valve.
9 It doesn't necessarily follow that the questions 10 are in chronological order.
Do you want to give me that'back?
l 11 (Witness hands document to Mr. Capra.)
l 12 The next place where you made a statement I
13 associated with this~ topic is in your interview with Mr.
14 Keaten, and others.
It is part of his investigation of the l
15 accident.-
l 16 On page 51 and 52.
The gist of your statement f
17 there is that you could not recall for sure whether there was 18 a countdown.
However, you remembered some sort of sequence
?
19 to turning off the last two pumps after high pressure injection i 1
20 was initiated.
21 WITNESS:
Right.
j 22 MR. CAPRA:
And the next thing is your deposition i
23 for the GPU-B&W law suit which took place -- parts that we 24 are going to talk about in August -- August 19, 21st, and 24th, 4.
e nemen.n,anc.
25 1982.
4
14 1
Pages 525 through 527.
As a matter of fact, I 2
will just give you this whole thing.
3 (Mr. Capra passes document to witness) 4 If you look at pages 525 through 527 --
3 WITNESS:
5257 6
MR. CAPRA:
Yes.
Keep going.
7 MR. RUSSELL:
They are generally highlighted 8
.in yellow.
Let me read to you first what I got out of reading 9
that particular portion of the depostion, and you can say 10 whether that is correct or not.
11 Basically in those pages, you recall that HPI 12 was actuated before the pumps were taken off, and we are talking' 13 about a short period of time.
issentially at the same tige,
~
14 but that HPI was actuated and then the pumps were tripped.
15 That you didn't physically do it.
That it was 16 something that you remembered hearing as being done, or going l,
17 to be done.
That you didn't really know whether it was actuall 18 done or was not done.
19 You just remembered before the pumps were turned j
20 off something about HPI being initiated.
21 I believe you say later in here that you were not f 22 at the portion of the control room panels where you initiate 23 HPI, and you are not the individual that tripped the pumps.
That i
i 2d you were on the feed station at the time, or feeding up the i
4.
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25 steam generators.
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1 WITNESS:
Right.
2 MR. CAPRA:
Now, on-page 529, you do state that 3
you do recall HPI being initiated prior to the pumps being i
4 shut off.
5 Again, they are asking for your recall.
6 WITNESS:
I have been saying -- that is what 7
I was saying all along.
I felt -- I was telling from my 8
Point of view the whole picture,'if you want.
What I thought 9
took place.
10 MR. CAPRA:
Then, on page 536, and I think this 11 is where you were questioned about were you influenced at all 12 in your thinking, or your recollection, by things that you 13 learned after th,e acc'ident.
l 14 I believe you say there that it is quite possible.
I 15 Mr. Zewe was asked a very similar question, and gave a very j
16 similar response.
f l
17 on page 549 through 550, you talk about the fact Is that you didn't agree with the reactor coolant pumps being 19 shut off at the time, but Mr. Zewe did give the order.
i I
20 And that is essentially the gist of your l
f 21 testimony up through the GPU-B&W law suit with respect to this !
22 particular issue.
23 WITNESS:
That is right.
24 MR. CAPRA:
And then you were interviewed the Aa e muerwn. W.
25 next set of testimony -- your OI interview with Mr. Norton and s - - _,,. - -,
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Mr. Letts.
2 Again, more words about the same documents that 3
we have just reviewed.
I will read you my summary of what 4
you said in this particular interview.
You can follow along 5
either in the document, or again, the summary put together 6
there.
7 On page 6, you said that you felt HPI was e
initiated a~t 0541.
However, he doesn't know if it was i
9 initiated either by actually manually pushing the button to i
10 reinstate it, or whether the operators just physically op'ened i
11 back up on the 16 valves.
In other words, unthrottled the l
12 flow.
When I say,
'he' here, I mean you.
13 WITNESS:
Right.
l 14 MR. CAPRA:
On page 7, you stated that you i
I 15 believe you were the first individual to bring it up.
You i
16 brought it up at the PORC meeting.
i 17 I have a question mark here because when I was 18 preparing this I was going through it chronologically;1ater l
19 on in the interview you do state that is where you believe 4
20 that you first brought it up.
i 21 WITNESS:
I don't know for a fact that that is the:
i 22 first time it was ever brouaht up.
l i
23 MR. CAPRA:
You were questioned about that later
[
i 24 also, okay?
You brought it up at least to yourself in i
4.
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25 preparation for the PORC meeting, because you had made comments
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that manually initiated HPI, on one of the exhibits we showed 2
you earlier -- unless you wrote it at the PORC meeting.
You 3
could have done that also.
4 WITNESS:
What I was getting at on that, it is 5
possible -- I.get the feeling I was the first guy to bring it 6
up.
I think I might have put it in everybody's mind.
It n
7 could have been in like an interview three or four of 8
us were together with the NRC, I mean right after the 9
accident, in a room like I don't know who the guys were, 10 NRC representatives, but it might even have been in~that' Il time frame.
1 12 MR. RUSSELL:
Was that the April 21st interview l
13 with Mr. Marsh, Hunter and Jackson that you are talking about 14 now?
I 15 WITNESS:
It might have been, yes.
l 16 MR. CAPRA:
You just said right after the I
17 accident.
Maybe within a few days -- this is three weeks or l
18 so after the accident.
Does that sound familiar?
I 19 WITNESS:
Well, after three weeks.
That is t
I 20 what I meant.
Close.
21 MR. CAPRA:
Later in the interview, this is 22 where you. identify one of the exhibits I showed you earlier, 23 B&W 283, as containing your comments, where it says:
Fully 24 initiated HPI, and that it was your printing or your hand-An el Reportets, Inc.
25 writing on that particular document.
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18 1
And you make a statement that when you wrote 2
that in you weren't really referencing any particular time.
3 You recall HPI being initiated -- being associated with 4
turning off the reactor coolant pumps.
5 WITNESS:
Right.
6 MR. CAPRA:
You go on to state on page 13 and 7
14 that you believe that Mr. Frederick would have been the 3
one that initiated HPI, if it was initiated.
It was your
~
9 function at the time of heating up the steam generators.
10 There was some discussion about who tripped the pumps, and 11 you said that you shut off two of the pumps, but you didn't i
l 12 shut off the last two.
And that is where you believe that i
13 Mr. Scheimann was the individual that turned off the pumes.
14 You turned off the first two, he turned off the second two.
15 WITNESS:
Right.
16 MR. CAPRA:
On page 14, you say Faust, and I
l 17 Frederick and Zewe were present at the time he brought it up, i
l 18 meaning the HPI actuation.
That you could not recall the i
19 reaction.
You believe that they agreed at the time.
Okay?
l 1
20 The time period you are talking about here is 21 when you brought it up at the PORC meeting.
j 22 WITNESS:
Did I bring it up, or did Bill brinq 23 it up?
I made it known to Bill, and Bill sort of emphasized l
24 it at the PORC meeting, just to get it into the manuence.
As J mwomm, ine.
25 MR. CAPRA:
Why don't you turn to page 14 and
i
)
19 I
you can take a look at it in context.
2 MR. VOIGT:
I think the problem here is this 3
particular portion doesn't reference the PORC meeting.
4 WITNESS:
It sounds like they were just asking 5
-- he was trying to. determine whether we all agreed really 6
strongly or not.
I just remember bringing it up.
And that 7
nobody disagreed necessarily with me, but Bill had made it 8
sort of like a point that if one of us thought of something, 9
we-get it into the sequence of events and worry about it
(
i 10 later on.
11 MR. RUSSELL:
This time frame now is actually 12 at the PORC meeting, or is.this a discussion you had prior 13 to the PORC meeting?
14 WITNESS:
Well, this would have been like prior l
1 15 to the PORC meeting, because when we were trying to get i
16 everything down that we could think of -- the PORC meeting 17 was like the first sequence of events that came up.
18 So, the idea was to get whatever we thought l
19 might fit in there, should fit in there at different points, I
20 when any of us thought something occurred, to get it in ther_e.
l 21 That is why I am saying Ed didn't necessarily_--
c 22 I don't remember him coming out and savina ves. I definitely 23 agree with you on that, that it happened like that.
He 24 just didn't disagree.
4.
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25 MR. RUSSELL:
Could you give me a feel for the
t 20 I
context at the time of your rationale for when you would 2
include something, or when you would exclude something 3
from the sequence of events.
4 WITNESS:
Could be any time.
5 MR. RUSSELL:
Let me clarify the question.
6 If an individual thought something occurred, would the tendency 9
y be for the three of you to incorporate it into the sequence e
of events, or was this something that you discussed, unanimously 9
agreed on before you would insist upon it being incorporated, i
10 or what was the -- the approach at the time.
Were you 11 conservative, for example?
If one of you thought comething 12 happened, you put it in, and let somebody else worry about
' 13
' taking it out later if it was needed? What was happening at i
14 the time?
s 15 WITNESS:
That was the idea.
To get it on l
16 paper, if you want, and then worry about taking it off later
^
17 on if it wasn't right.
Something proved or disproved it to l
18
'be otherwise.
I l
t 19 MR. VOIGT So you are saying if any one person 20
-recalled something, then that would be included?
21 WITNESS:
Right.
I can't give examples.
This 22 is the main example.
This is the first one I really got 23 heavily criticized on, whether it actually hannanad or 24 didn't.
4f e nowim, inc.
25 MR. RUSSELL:
Do you recall any discussion between e
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1 Zewe, yourself, and Frederick, and possib.y Scheimann, with 2
respect to this HPI actuation at the time yau turned off the 3
last two pumps? Was this an issue that you (iscussed for 4
any period of time?
5 WITNESS:
Well, it wasn't a big is. rue.
It 6
wasn't something that we -- I can't say we discutsed in that 7
sense.
It was just something, all right, if you think it a
happened and you feel strongly that it happened, we will get 9
it into the sequence of events, and then worry about,it.
10 That was like the attitude that we felt.
Not just yeti _ --
11 I am just saying between us.
The way I remember it it that
}
I 12 I brought it up in one of the earlier depositi1ns -- nct l
t 13 depositions, excuse,me, in one' of the earlier interviewt.
14 I said didn't this happen at this time?
I feel strongly that 15 we initiated high pressure injection at this time, right 16 around when we took the pumps off.
17 I can only remember Bill and Fred -- or Ed bei.\\tg i
18 there.
I can't remember Fred.
And it was just, Bill said l
i 19 basically, maybe we did do that, and he picked up with me on l
20 it, and Ed didn't disagree necessarily.
I don't remember him 21 saving anything really, to tell you the truth.
22 MR. CAPRA:
Do you recall this conversation 23 taking place before the PORC meeting, or during --
l 4
24 WITNESS:
For some reason, I think it happened 4.
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25 ononeofthejnterviews.
I feel like -- it seems like we were, l
l l
1
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22 7
1 in a room on one of the interviews that we had, when - made j
i 2
some sort of an emphasis, didn't this happen then? We were 2
3 in it together, the three of us, -- or four of us.
I thought 4
it was one of the earlier interviews _where.we. wore actually in 5
a motel room with one of the NRC investigator's, or two of 6
them.
Where he was taping.it,.rightt. _
7 I raised the issue at that point, that we 8
just injected high pressure injection at this time, and then 9
later on -- later on when we went over the sequence of events, 4
to I wrote on the comment, because I was going down through it, I
II i
I said Bill, didn't we initiate,high pressure injection, and 12 he just emphasized to get it in there.
He insisted that it 13 be put in at that point.
So it was resolved later on.
It s
Id built from there.
15 It sort of -- like it went away then, if you s
16 want.
It wasn't an issue.
It was just something -- I.said I
17 I think we did this at this time.- It became an issue up at 18 B&W, and started focusing on it, well, --
II MR. RUSSELL:
Was there any discussion amongst l
20 the three of you to include this HPI actuation based upon an I
21 after-the-fact knowledge that you should have been putting i
l 22 water into t'.a core?
That you had voiding, and that would have 23 f
been the right thing technically to,do?
Could that have 24
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influenced you?
4 4.
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25 WITNESS:
I don't think there was a discussion like 1
1 23 I
that.
2 MR. RUSSELL:
To the best of your knowledge, 3
your recollection, there was no collusion amongst the three 4
operators to add something to the sequence of events which 5
would make it look like you did something that was right?
6 WITNESS:
No.
Not in that sense.
The only 7
point of view that that came up was when I -- it was fairly a
early in the initial interviews when I said didt.'t we do 9
this?
I feel pretty strongly that we initiated high pressure 10 injection.
They might have agreed at that point that it 11 seems like something we would have done.
That might have been 12 a statement made by one of the others, right? We will include 13 it in until otherwise we -- we find out otherwise it is not.
14 The idea is that we would back it up -- they 15 could back it up on strip chart recorder or the computer print 16 out or something at the time.
I don't think we ourselves had access to computer l 17 18 prints and printouts, especially not the reactimeter, whatever 19 came out on that.
l 20 When I brought it up at the time, it was just 21 recollection of what I thought happened during the accident l
l 22 at that point, and I made an emphasis on it.
Bill picked up i
23 from that.
In the rest of our conversations -- the rest of c
24 our interviews it started showing up then, right, until it m.
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' 25 came up to the B&W litigation where it was really pushed.
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MR. RUSSELL:
Other than Bill Zewe becoming the 2
spokesman for your group in carrying this issue, do you recall
-3 any discussion that Mr. Frederick had with respect to HPI 4
actuation at 05417 5
WITNESS:
No.
6 MR. RUSSELL:
Other.than he was present at the 7
time these issues were discussed, you don't recall him 8
participating?
9 WITNESS:
No.
10 MR. RUESELL:
Okay.
You were --
12 WITNESS:
If you think about it, there really i
13'.
wasn't any reason for any of us to object.
It was something 14 that one of us was trying to put in.
The idea wasn'.t to throw 15 it out unless you had real hard fact to believe it wasn't l
16 there, right?
The idea was to get it in on the sequence of 17 events, and worry about it later on, whether it was right or 18 wrong that it happened that way.
I 19 MR. CAPRA:
Later in the OI interview, you were j
i 20 questioned about a meeting that you had at Bill Zewe's house i
21 some time after the accident.
You thought perhaps it was a i
i 22 month after the accident, and Mr. Frederick was questioned j
23 about the same meeting, and he thought it may have been a week 24
(
or so after the accident.
But it was some time after the 4.
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25 accident where you did have some data at that particular point.
I s
i 25 l
l e
1 Mr. Frederick said it was reactimeter data l
4, 2
that you had, and you got together to take a look at the data, 3
I believe, to see what happened.
4 Do you recall the HPI issue was brought up 5
during that meeting at all?
6 WITNESS:
No.
I don't think it was.
The biggest ;
s1 i
i 7
thing I remember from that was seeing what pressure did during 8
the transient.
I just didn't believe pressure got down that 9y low.
That is about as far as I remember.
To me it just sort 10 of trails off, and we didn't really say much of anything'else. l 11 MR. RUSSELL:
What was the purpose of getting f
12 together and meeting to discuss it?
13 WITNESS:
To trh to get the thing together in 1
1 14 the sequence that it happened, because there is -- it seemed l
l 15 like we were starting to talk -- we just wanted to try to get 16 the story straight, if you want, as to how it occurred between I
17 us, because Ed was over in one side of the room -- in fact, l
i 18 I didn't know exactly where Ed was through the whole accident I
i 19 scenario, the accident itself.
l 20 At times he was behind me.
At times I remember i
I 21 seeing him over on high pressure injection panel.
A lot of L
22 times I don't even remember seeing him, so I can't say where 23 he was at.
When I was being talked to, I was talking as 24 we did stuff.
The only thing I did was try to say what each 4.-
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25 individual guy did, to see where it fell in.
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1 I didn't get very far, though.
2 MR. CAPRA:
Again, later on in the OI interview, 3
around pages 29 and 30, this is the point you tried to bring 4
up earlier.
You were questioned about were you influenced at 5
all by things you may have learned after the accident, and l
6 you say it is possible -- I paraphrased here and said that --
7 it is possible, but your statements regarding initiation of a
HPI could have been prompted by what you were told after the 9
accident.
10 That is where you bring up that you started
- 11 using terms like voiding in the core, but you know you didn't I
12 talk in those terms prior to the accident.
l 13 Later in the interview, starting around page 39, 14 it was pointed out to you that in a couple of interviews Bill I
15 Zewe had prior to the PORC meeting, recall that the PORC l
16 meeting -- first PORC meeting to review the sequence of events 17 was around the May time frame, middle of May, May 14th.
I 10 Yet, in some of Mr. Bewe's statements prior to 19 the PORC meeting -- for example on 3/30/79, in an interview 20 with Bob Long and Mr. Ruppert, he testified to the fact that:
21 So when I went and secured all the coolant pumps, we keep on I
22 feeding HPI at this time.
23 So, it was Mr. Eewe's recall during this interview,'
24 just a day and a half after the accident, that he had HPI l
Av e new=. w.
i 25 going at the time he secured reactor coolant pumps.
l
27 1
WITNESS:
Is this a day and a half after the 2
accident?
3 MR. RUSSELL:
Yes.
4 WITNESS:
Say this again.
5 MR. CAPRA:
That was his statement on 'Mrch 30, 6
1979.
7 MR. RUSSELL:
This is the earliest statement we 1
8 could find by Mr. Zewe concerning HPI actuation.
It predated 9
your statements concerning HPI actions.
l 10 WITNESS:
In other words he did originate it-l Il then.
i 12 MR. CAPRA:
Would you like to see that particular l l
13 statement?
Id WITNESS:
Not necessarily.
15 MR. RUSSELL:
I think we are getting close to 16 getting -- one of the things that concerns me, it would appear i
17 that there were statements made by yourself, statements made 18 by Mr. Zewe, -- we can't find any statements made by Mr.
l 19 Frederick that directly relate to this.
In fact, the references 20 that are cited for the inclusion of this, which are identifying, 21 Mr. Frederick, go to his testimony.
f 22 You find out that it is not clear at all that 23 is in fact what he was saying.
One of the interviews doesn't l.
24 discuss it at all.
It is just completely an error that that A.;
n.oon.n. inc.
25 particular interview was included.
I
i 28 I
Do you have any understanding today as to how 2
that came to pass, either from discussions subsequently.
It 3
does appear that you and Mr. Sewe were the ones that wanted 4
to have this included.
5 If there were a spokesman for the issue, it 6
would have to be the two of you.
7 WITNESS:
You know what might have happened?
8 If I could remember properly, during the accident, I was over i
9 on the feed station, secondary side of the panel.
Ed was 10 on the opposite side, over on ES injection panel.
High
'l pressure injection ES panel, automatic actuation.
12 Bill was in between us, with Kunder.
Fred was 13 in the corner by the pressurizer.
Now, when we talk about Id conversations going on that day, if you picture the alarm i
15 systems going off on top of it all, they weren't conversations I 16 where you took your undivided attention and listened to what t
17 the person was saying, okay?
i i
18 A lot of times my back was to Bill when things 19 were being said.
I would assume the same kind of situation l
20 was with Ed on the other side of the panel.
I could picture 21 turning around and maybe agreeing with something that I didn't-l 22 necessarily fully hear, okay? And I got.the impression that 23 one of the things we discussed that I remember -- that I 2d A{
feel like I remember anyway -- was that we were talking where l
s n a m nws. ire.
25 we take the pumps off, we will reinitiate the high pressure 1
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29 1
injection.
2 I can't even say what the condition of the pumps 3
were during that time at all, really.
I don't know if they 4
were really throttled back or not.
5 But I came out with the impression that when we 6
took those pumps off, we initiated --
7 MR. RUSSELL:
I understand that.
Your testimony 8
has been fairly -- it has been consistent with what your 9
recollection was.
At this point in time I am interested in 10 information you may have that might throw some light on the
'I subject as to how GPU came to use Mr. Frederick as the source 12
.for incorporation of th6se particular statements.
The j
13 footnotes in the sequence of eyents that was filed with the i
i 14 NRC.
l i
15 The references for incorporation of that 16 particular statement are identified as being Mr. Frederick, 17 yet in review of the record, we find that you and Mr. Zewe 18 are the only spokesmen for which we have a written record 19 that says yes, that is whht..we thought, that is what we 20 recall.
i 21 I am curious if you have any insight as to hov l
l 22 Mr. Frederick was identified as the author of that particular l
l 23 issue.
{
4 WITNESS:
Don't think I can help you with that.
f 2d Ass 1
. neierwes Inc.
25 MR. CAPRA:
If you recall, when I showed you the i
30 i
final version of the annotated sequence of events, it showed 2
three references.
One reference was a reference of the memo 3
that Mr. VanWitbeck. wrote, which we have no copy of.
4 The other two references actually included 5
three interviews of Mr. Frederick, that Bill was just talking 6
about.
When we go back and look at those three interviews, 7
one of the interviews doesn't mention EPI actuation at all.
e I am not sure why that was included.
The other two, there 9
are references to manually actuating high pressure injection.
10 Again, because of the confusion of these 11 interviews not being discussed -- in discussing events necessari,1; l
12 in chronological order, there is some question when you go l
i 13 back and look at it what time frame he was referring to.
l
}
14 So again, as Bill said, we don't understand why j
15 Mr. Frederick was used as the source of-including that, when j
16 both yourself and Mr. Zewe state it.
There are clear i
17 statements --
1 i
i 18 MR. RUSSELL:
There are statements which are t
19 much earlier, including a few days after the accident.
I 20 WITNESS:
I don't know how I would have either.
l i
21 The earliest interview that I can think of that I went to i
22 was with Bubba Marshall, and that was just where he was 23 writing down a couple of things EG and I were going over i
i 24 in the observation center.
After a shift.
l An' MRuomm.Inc.
l 25 MR. R USSELL :
But you don't recall any discussion j i
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31 1
between yourself and Ed Frederick that would indicate that 2
he was either in agreement -- affirmative agreement with the 3
position that you and Bill had apparently formulated, or was 4
in disagreement with that?
5 There was no confrontation or argument amongst 6
the three of you as to whether that did or didn't occur?
7 WITNESS:
No.
When I think about it, during
]
the accident, maybe Ed didn't even know that we were discussing 8
9 it, if you want.
It was on my side of the room, at that I
10 point, it might have been.
I don't know what he might have 11 been doing.
He might not even had heard it, a discussion on 12 high pressure injection when we take the pumps off.
,13 MR. CAPRA:
Let me read you an exchange that 14 took place at a meeting on May 25th 1979, again this is i
15 roughly a week or so after the PORC. meeting.
l 16 I am sure you have seen this before.
It was 17 a Med Ed group interview with Mr. Zewe, Mr. Miller, Mr.
18 Seelinger, Mr. Porter and Mr. Ross.
It starts out with l
19 Mr. Zewe saying:
I think right here is where we went back to i
20 full HPI.
Mr Miller:
Right.
At the point where you turned 21 off the last pump?
i 22 Mr. Zewe:
Just before or just after we did that -
23
-- we did that because they took a countdown, and Craig Faust i
24 hit HPI just as Ed, Mr. Frederick, secured the last two pumps. i Aa.
. m.oorwei. inc.
25 I
Zewe again:
I don't know if that was the case or l
I I
4
.7-
32 i
not.
It was just before we tripped the last pumps that we 2
Put on HPI.
3 Mr. Miller:
Bill, are you pretty sure we had 4
full HPI around that time?
5 Zewe:
I cannot be as sure as the operator who 6
actuated it was.
He sure is.
Craig Faust.
7 MR. Zewe, later:
We talked about that yesterday a
after we reviewed the tape, and I went over the complete 9
scenario for training and everybody as an aid for future training classes, and Craig and Ed thought again it was either l 10 l
I 11 just before the last two pumps, eor just after the last two 12 Pumps.
+
13 I am sure you have seen that exchange before, i
14 too.
l f
15 Again, there is apparently some confusion in 16 Mr. Zewe's mind at least where he says that you were the i
i 17 individual that actuated the HPI, and Mr. Frederick was the j
i 18 individual that tripped the pumps.
l 19 VITNESS: }That is believable, 4
20 MR. CAPRA:
But in here, he references again that l
21 this scenario was reviewed after listening to a tape -- and I
l 22 I am not sure what tape he is referring to -- but this is 23 May 25th, and he said yesterday, so it is May 24th.
I 24 WITNESS:
You have to watch the term, ' reviewed' l
An e n oorwri.im.
25 though.
What he might mean by review.
What does review mean l
.1
33 I
to you?
It almost gives the impression we really took some 2
time aside and set down and thought about it as a group.
l 3
MR. RUSSELL:
Do you have anything else that 4
you would like to add on this subject, or anything that may 5
throw some light on an otherwise confusing scenario?
6 WITNESS:
No.
I don't believe there is much 7
more to say, really.
3 MR. RUSSELL:
Have you seen or reviewed the 9
-- I am not sure it is the right word -- I will call.it a 10 filing, and I am not sure it is a filing, but a statement-11 that was developed by the GPU attornies concerning HPI l
12 actuation that was submitted that described confusion with 13 respect to recollection of events?
l
~
14 An understanding of how an operator could have 15 made an error?
This is a document entitled, Memorandum on I
16 the 541 HPI Actuation " Mystery Man" Issue, dated August 16, l'
17 1983, that was offered by Mr. Klingsburg?
Have you seen or I
18 reviewed that document?
l i
19 WITNESS:
I don't remember seeing-it.
20 MR. RUSSELL:
I don't have any other questions.
21 MR. CAPRA:
I don't either.
Thanks very much, j
22 Mr. Faust.
We appreciate it.
'l i
23 MR. RUSSELL:
It is 1:17 that.we terminate 24 the interview.
I
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25 (Whereupon, at 1:17 p.m.,
the interview is concluded.)
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j This is to certify tha: the attached proces:'. n:;s bef ore the l
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' ::RC 00:01:53IO:J s
In the matter of: Investigative Interview of Craig C. Faust!
Date of Proceeding : Wednesday, January 30, 1985 Place of Proceeding: Harrisburg, Pennsylvania were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript for the file of the Co.t. mission.
so in Garrett J. Walsh, Jr.
Official Reporter - Typed il (r
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