ML20126K521
| ML20126K521 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 06/20/1990 |
| From: | NRC |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20126K503 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-91-533, FOIA-92-A-1 NUDOCS 9301070160 | |
| Download: ML20126K521 (22) | |
Text
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ed 7R 3 \\ A OFFICIALTRANSCRWT OF PROCEEDINGS a:-
Nuclear Regulatory Commission l
geng; i
Investigative Interview of
Title:
ceorge w. Alexander, Jr. (ctosro)
Docket No.
p 1
4 14 CAT 10N.
Cincinnati, Ohio-dam Wednesday, June 20, 1990 Pacts 1 - 20 b
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EXHIBIT ANN R1 LEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. PAGE10F M PAGE(S).
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' s-1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 5
OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 6
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -X 7
In the Matter of:
t 8
INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW t
9 George W. Alexander, Jr.
i 10 (CLOSED) 11
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -X 12 2021 Auburn Avenue 13 Cincinnati, Ohio 14 15 Wednesday, June 20, 1990 16 17-The above-entitled matter commenced at 2:05 p.m.
18 when were present:
19 RICHARD C. PAUL 20 office of Investigations 21 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 22 23 DAVID P. KAMP, ESQ.
24 on behalf of Mr. Alexander 25
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2 PR0CEED1NGF 1
2 KR. PAUL For the record, this is an interview of sa George W. Alexander, Jr., the spelling of the last name is 3
A-1-e-x-a-n-d-e-r, who is currently employed by the 4
University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio.
5 The location of this interview is Cincinnati, 6
7 Ohio.
Present at this interview in addition to Mr.
8 Alexander are Richard C. Paul, P-a-u-1, Office of Investigations, Nuclear Regulatory commission, and also 9
10 David Kamp, attorney for Mr. Alexander.
As agreed, this interview is being tape recorded 11 12 by covrt report Gary L. Baldwin.
The subject matter of this interview concerns the University of Cincinnati Hospital.
13 Mr. Alexander, please stand and raise your right 14 15 hand.
16 Whereupon, GEORGE W. ALEXANDER, JR.
17 10 was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, 19 was examined and testified as follows:
Mr. Alexander, for tho' record would you please 20 21 give me your current position at the University of 22-Cincinnati?
23 THE WITNESS:
I have a faculty appointment.
I am 12 4 an associate professor of microradiology and I'm 25 -
administrative director of nuclear medicine services.
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3 And how long have you been in that 1
MR. PAUL
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2 position?
THE WITNESS:
24 years now.
3 What is your background in radioactive 4
MR. PAULt 5
materials handling?
Huclear medical technology since THE WITNESSI 6
7 1957.
8 MR. PAULt And do you have an educational 9
background?
10 THE WITNESS:
A BS degree in biology at the 11 University of Cincinnati.
We opened the first nuclear medicine technology treatment conter in the country.
12 2
13 MR. PAULt In 1988 did you have -- Were you associated with the radiation safety office in some 14 15 capacity?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
I was administrative director 16 of the radiation safety office.
17 18 MR. PAULt And at that time my understanding was that Mr. Ken Fritz was the radiation officer, is that 19 20 correct?
THE WITNESSt Correct.
21 22 MR. PAUL Were you Hr. Fritz' supervisor or did 23 you work for him?
THE WITNESS:
No.
I would work for him, quite 24 25 literally.
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1 MR. PAULt He was your online supervisor?
\\C' THE WITNESS:
That's correct.
2 3
MR. PAULt And what were your duties within the 4
radiation safety office?
5 THE WITNESS:
You can say as administrative-director I was -- perhaps of fice manager might be the best 6
vay to term that, budget responsibilities, keeping the 7
official minutes of the radiation safety committee, 8
9 paperwork, fiscal matters, things like that.
10 MR. PAULt At that time, who did Mr. Frits report 11 to?
Who was his --
12 THE WITNESS:
He would report to the chairman-of the radiation safety committee and the president of the 13 s.
i 14 university and from there straight to.NRC.
15 MR. PAULt And that period 1988, who was the 16 chairman of the radiation safety committee?
17 THE WITNESS
-I believe - Dr. Jerome F.. Wiot.
18 MR. PAULt Is he still currently the chairman?
19 THE WITNESS:
No, sir, he's not.
20-MR. PAUL Who is?
21 THE WITNESS - Judy-Harmony.until last Friday, 22 She's a Ph.D. ontologist, I.believe.
Dr. Jim, Lazar is now I 23-believe the chairman.-
t 24 MR. PAUL So if I understand you correctly, _- part of your duties vers to take the minutes of the radiation
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2 THE WITNESS:
We had a secretary for that purpose 3
but I was the keeper of the minutes.
I kind of orchestrated 4
the paperwork, if you wish.
5 MR. PAULt Did you attend the meetings on a 6
regular basis?
7 THE WITNESS Yes.
8 MR. PAULt How often did they hold the meetings?
9 THE WITNESS:
Quarterly.
Sometimes we had more frequently neetings than just quarterly but for the most 10 11 part they were quarterly.
12 MR. PAULt In the timeframe of the summer of 1988,
/
do you recall how many health physics technicians were 13 14 employed in the radiation safety unit?
15 THE WITNESS:
As best I can remember, I would say 16 five, four to five.
17 MR. PAULt And did you have any responsibility as to direction of these health physics technicians?
18.
19 THE WITNESSt No, sir.
20 MR. PAULt -How actually handled the day-to-day 21 supervision of these employees?
22 THE WITNESS:
Mr. Fritz was-the radiation safety-officer and Mr. Jason, who is the deputy radiation safety 23 24 officer.
We made a clear split between technical and A..
25-administrative aspects of the department.
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1 MR. PAUL:
At this time I would like to show you a memorandum dated June 30th 1988.on the University of 2
Cincinnati letterhead and it's to radiation. safety personnel 3
t 4
at the University of Cincinnati and it's from George W.
5 Alexander, Jr., and Kenneth M. Fritz,
. I'll make this 6
attachment one to the interview.
7 Could you look at this?
8 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
9 MR. PAUL:
Do you recall that memorandum?
10 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir,.I do.
11 MR. PAULt Did you author-it?
12 THE WITNESS:
It was more or less a group eff">rt.
13 There were other people involved, such as Ken Fritz, legal 14 counsel, et cetera.
Specifically who at that particular 15 time I do not remember._ _I was certainly a part of--it.
16 MR. PAUL:
So you did discuss this with the 17 university legal counsel?
18 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
19
- MR.. PAUL:
And do you recall.who was_the legal 20 counsel?
21 THE WITNESSt It would have been Bill Lodge.
We had a prior memo in_1986_and there was certain' notification 22 23 and verification through him. =He's_in the personnel-
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24 department at-the university.-
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Byl" prior' memo," what are you referring 25
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1 to -- on the same subject?
2 Tile WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
Was this a memorandum superseding the 3
MR. PAUht 4
earlier memorandum?
5 Tile WITNESS:
That's correct.
6 MR. PAULt And what was the reason that this meno 7
was authorized at this time?
8 Ti!E WITNESS:
The reason was that we wished to koop radiation safety matters in-house in order to be able 9
to attempt more -- how shall I state it -- take care of 10 11 problem areas.
We had a series of incidents where some of the 12
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technicians hsd gone to local news media and a letter was 13 14 sent to the college of medicine.
A letter was sent to the president of the university without the RSO's or the deputy 15 16 RSO's knowledge.
With that in mind, it was to keep them from going 17 individuals and then having-to answer af ter tha 18 to these 19 fact.
20 MR. PAUL:
So this memoranda was in response to 21 this series of events?
22 THE WITNESS:
I wouldn't say it-was.in response..
Instead, I would say it was a memo written to express the 23 24 chain of command, if you wish, on how to report problems and
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It had nothing to do with outside.
25 particularly in-house.
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8 At that time were you familiar at all e'
1 MR. PAULt with the NRC's policy as far as employees being able to 2
3 freely contact the NRC?
4 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
5 MR. PAULt And I believe there's an NRC form 6
that's posted.
7 THE WITNESS:
That is to employees.
8 MR. PAULt Was that posted there at that time?
9 THE WITNESS:
Oh, yes.
In fact, NRC visitations was that were looked upon -- I remember one specifically 10 all notices to employees were posted throughout the 11 12 university and medical system.
13 MR. PAUL Did you sea this po.'cy or this procedure as set forth in your memorandum in any way 14 15 conflicting with NRC policy?
16 THE WITNESS:
No, sir, I did not.
The intent was never there and to my knowledge I never heard anyone say 17 anything about it until the allegations ccme up.
is 19 MR. PAULt Was Mr. Fritz a co-author of the 20 memorandum?
21 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
As far as your understanding, he agreed 22 MR. PAULt with what's detailed in the memorandum?
23 24 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
k How was.the particular memorandum z
s 25 MR. PAULt
9 Was that at a nesting or ~~
1 presented to the employees?
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This would be at a meeting with J".
THE WITNESS:
2 radiation health technicians with Mr. Fritz and myself.
3 And was there a signature required on 4
MR. PAULt 5
the memo?
We requested the signature and it 6
THE WITNESS:
also had along with it, I believe, a dress code, vacation 7
and sick leave policy so there were three items that were 8
addressed at this particular meeting.
9 We further asked if there were questions from the 10 technicians at that time and they said no.
11 12 MR. PAULt Subsequent to the issuance of the r
memorandum, did you ever get any feedback from the 8
13 technicians themselves regarding this policy?
14 No, sir,_not until I heard about it 15 THE WITNESS:
through the -11egations which took place -- I should say 16 things that were written to the radiation safety committee 17 That's the first I heard of this.
18 in January of '89.
Was this an official policy of the 19 MR. PAULt 20 university or --
21 THE WITNESS:
It encompasses the policy of the 22 university, yes, sir.
23 MT., PAULt And you we.e in a position where you had the ability to issue policy?
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When you say " issue policy" --
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I would answer that question this C
2 THE WITNESS:
t I think that as far as radiation safety is concerned, 3
way.
the radiation safsty committee is the only one that issue 4
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- policy, certainly not me.
i 6
MR. PAULt Was the radiation safety committee 7
aware of the memorandum?
i 8
THE WITNESS They were aware of this at the next 9
nesting after this went out.
10 MR. PAULt Do you recall when that meeting was?
11 THE WITNESS:
I do not, no, sir.
12 MR. PAULt Do you recall if there.was a health physics technician by the stame-of 13 14 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
AndthebestIunderstand,lUflleft 15 MR. PAULt employment of the University of cincinnati sometina earlier 16 than -- sometime before the issuance of-this memorandum.
17 l
18 THE WITNESS:
'Yes,-sir, 19 MR. PAULt Do you recall how much earlier?' IX) you-recallwhen%1 eft?
20 21 THE WITNESS I probably-can if you want me to 22 look it up.
23 MR. PAULt Sure, if.you don't mind.-
J 24 THE WITNESS I could;give_you,an approximate date-k
.. Ithinkthiswould-havebeenin'83or'84.-$1Hlwas-25' a,nyhow.
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Probably '84 or early '85.
Didyouhaveanyparticipationin%
MR. PAULt 3
4 4
leaving?
I' was in attendance concerning this.
THE WITNESS 5
MR. PAULt Do you recall Why% 1ef t?
6 THE WITHESS:
I believe that left -- I don't 7
know what specific statements the university made relative 8
9 to leaving.
I don't know.
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10 Was there any connection betvoen 11 MR. PAUL 1 12 t$$2 and this particular policy?
I think that certainly the policy 13 THE WITNESS:
which was written in '86 and this one were probably somewhat 14 initiated by his type of actions.
15 We consistently fought fires.
I mean it's a heck 16 television or in of a thing to wake up and find yourself o'1 17 the newspapers in the morning when you knew nothing about 18 19 it.
20 MR. PAUL:
Not having seen the earlier memorandum, also?
were you the author of that earlier memorandum, 21 22 THE WITNESS:
A group effort again but that memorandum, i. hat particular one, I am absolutely positive 23 24 Bill Lodge did approve.
25 MR. PA'JLt What was the difference -- What was the m4%
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change --
2 THE WITNESS:
I've got it here.
3 MR. PAUL Actually they're pretty much the same.
4 THE WITNESSt Yes, sir.
5 HR. PAUL Was the June 30th '88 memorandum 6
reiteration of that policy?
7 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir, and the subsequent notification process was a reiteration of both of them but 8
perhaps spelled out a little bit more clearly.
9 10 MR. PAULt could I get a copy of that after this 11 meeting?
12 THE WITNESS:
Surely.
13 MR. PAULt In regards to the earlier memorandum,
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-vas there any concerns expressed by the health. physics 14 15 technicians regarding the earlier memo?
f 16 THE WITNESS No, sir.
There has never been any concern expressed until January of '89 and yet consistently 17 18 all during this period, beginning;with up until the present, NRC has been notified many, many times of problems 19 by these techs so I think that kind of speaks for itself.
20 21
.)C1. PAULt Did you have any-participation in the 22 NRC inspection in August of '887 First off, do'you recall 23 it?
24 THE WITNESS: - August of '8P.
NRC has -- You have to.please understand that they have-been here constantly for 25,
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about three years now so to pinpoint a date -- Perhaps I 2
did.
I really don't remember that.
l 3
MR. PAULt Do you remember at all the -- Did you f
4 participate at all in the inventory of the sealed sources 5
that the university --
6 THE WITNESS:
No, sir.
7 MR. PAULt Do you ever recall in this timeframe 8
that there was an issue of missing sources?
9 THE WITNESS:
No, sir, not until July of '89-did I 10 ever hear anything about that.
11 MR. PAULt In reading the_ memorandum it's my 4
12 understanding then that the radiation safety committee f
actually set policy within'-- as to radiation safety.and'it 13 14
- was implemented by Mr. Fritz and yourself.
15 THE WITNESSt That's correct.
By Mr...Fritz, not l
i 16 me.
17 MR. PAULt. So just for the chronology, I believe 18 it was early '89 or late '88 that the health physics t
19 technicians came forward with numerous concerns.
4 20 THE WITNESS '
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21
. )G1.. PAULt And was it at that time that they went 22 before^the radiation' safety committee?
23 THE.WITNFSS:
_I believe that wasLin January of-24 1989,'that's. correct, and the allegations that were made
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We had a special radiation safety committee, a subcommittee 25
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addressed all of those concerns and this was one of the 2
3 concerns.
4 MR. PAULt The memo?
5 THE WITNESS:
Right.
6 MR. PAULt Specifically as to the memo and the policy it sets forth, how was this handled by the radiation 7
8 cafety committee?
Did they look into the specific issue as 9
to this allegation?
10 THE WITNESS:
Not really look into it because I believe that everyone felt across the board that it in no 11 12 vay involved NRC.
1 mean it's -- As I told Mr. Kamp, this was so 13 cross-grained to me not to be able to call NRC about 14 15 something that you don't even consider it.
I never have.
I personally view it as a regulatory agency and people who can 16 17 help you, not deter you.
18 MR. PAULt It's my understanding they brought --
by "they" I mean the health physics technicians brought it 19 20 to the committee as a concern, is that right?
21 THE WITNESS That's correct.
22 MR. PAULt Was there any follovup taken by the 23 committee to address this concern?
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24 THE WITNESSt Yes, sir, and that was in written 25 form.
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1 MR. PAUL:
2 THE WITNESS:
Dr. Wlot, yes, sir.
i 3
MR. PAUL At that time as a result of the radiation safety committee taking action as to this issue,
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4 was it your understanding that the health physics 5
technicians were satisfied with the resolution of this 6
7 problem?
8 THE WITNESS:
Absolutely.
I still never heard them say they couldn't call NRC directly.
9 10 MR. PAUL Regarding the subsequent issues that came up in August of '89 regarding -- First, were you aware 11 of the issue that came up regarding the withholding of 12 13 inventory cards from the NRC?
14 THE WITNESS:
No, sir, not until July of '89.
15 MR. PAUL:
And how did you become aware of it?
16 THE WITNESS:
I was witness to a conversation between the RSO and the deputy RSo, like I'm sitting over 17 there in that chair listening to the conversation, and 18 something was said I believe that Mr. Estes had filed a 19 letter with the Department of Labor and also NRC relative 20 to, I believe, some missing inventory cards, et cetera.
21 I wrote this down specifically because I thought 22 23 that perhaps someone may ask the question.
Again I was not 24 involved in this but I did hear it.
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Ken Fritz asked Prince Jason what Ray Estes was 25
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1 Ken asked Jason is there enything missing and 2
Jason taid no, there is nothing missing.
I had no 3
4 invo ? ve n s n'-.
I really didn't even know what they were 5
talking aboat.
6 KR. PAUL:
When did you make the note?
7 THE WITNESS:
At the time because the sequence of
$,hings going down, I would lose my brains if --
8 9
MR. PAUL:
Was it common for you to make notes of 10 conversations?
11 THE WITNESS:
I write everything down as a general 12 rule.
13 MR, PAUL:
Did this conversation take place after 14 the issue came out or was this --
15 THE WITNESS:
This was after.
I believe he filed 16 that letter in June.
17 MR. PAUL:
Fritt did or --
18 THE WITNESS:
No, this would have been Ray Estes.
19 MR. PAUL:
Filed his Department of Labor 20 complaint?
21 THE WITNESSi That's correct and that was in June, 22 I believe.
23 MR. PAUL:
And that's the first that the issue regarding missing sources came up that yo.u were aware of?
24 25 THE WITNESS:
That I ever beard about.
You always
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is it and you'll find it and that sort of thing but this was 2
3 a little bit different.
Did you have any further participation 4
KR. PAULt in the evens as far as notification of Dr. Wiot and the 5
6 follovup that was done on it?
7 THE WITHESS:
I had nothing to do with it, period.
8 KR. PAULt We'll go off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
9 10 MR. PAUL:
Back on the record.
As a result of this memorandum or policy that are 11 detailed f rom '86 on, was any disciplinary action ever taken 12 r
C against an employee as a result of this policy?
Do you 13 14 recall?
I think Ray Estes had I think a 15 THE WITNESS:
Department of Labor investigation and no discriminatory 16 action or punitive damage, however you want to state it, was 17 ever taken against him.
18 19 MR. PAULt Did you participate at all in any discussions that resulted in Mr. Fritz and Mr. Jason being 20 21 suspended?
THE WITNESS:
No, sir.
I was called to Dr. Wiot's 22 office at the same time they were as a witness to that 23 24 suspension.
And what did Dr. Wiot give as the 25 MR. PAULt
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18 1
reason for their suspension?
L5 2
THE WITNESS:
He simply stated they were going to 3
be put on administrative leave.
4 MR. PAULt He didn't give a reason?
5 THE WITNESS Let me see what.I have here.
Each to be placed on administrative leave with pay pending 6
7 outcome of a current investigation relating to irregularities of the university radiation safety program.
8 9
MR. PAULt Dr. Wiot didn't elaborate?
10 THE WITNESS:
No, sir.
11 MR. PAULt Did he just read the letter to them?
12 THE WITNESS:
Ho.
This was done for my records on 13 that, after the fact.
14 MR. PAULt Dut at the time he --
15 THE WITNESS He did relate to them that there was something about some missing records and I think they asked 16 17
-- let me think.
I think Ken wanted to know from Jason what was the 18 problem and this went back and forth a couple of times and 19 then there was something said about missing records and that 20 21 was kind of it.
22 MR. PAULt As to this issue of the missing records 23 and missing sources, is my understanding correct that you
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24 have no firsthand knowledge of this?
25 THE WITNESS:
No knowledge whatsoever.
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HR. PAUL:
One other thing.
There was -- It was my understanding that Dr. Silberstein chaired a subcommitteo 2
3 to look into the --
4 THE WITNESS:
Yes, that was the subcommittee I was 5
referring to.
6 MR. PAUL:
Did Dr. Silberstein discuss with you this particular memo that we made attachment one?
7 8
THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
At that point ~~ that meeting was I believe held in February of 1989 and what I 9
had been instructed to do af ter that meeting was to revise 10 the memo but to make sure that we had legal counsel on it as 11 well, which had always been our way of proceeding.
12 I sont a copy of that memo to Bill Lodge and 13 apparently in the university system -- you went to school 14 15 there, you'll understand that it got lost.
It got down to about May and I still had not heard 16 anything and at that point in time was when we took the bull 17 by the horns and went ahead and directed the new one and 18 that submitted in July with legal counsel interpretation.
19 20 KR. PAUL:
This new policy, the one that was 21 detailed in '89, is the current policy?
22 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
23 MR. PAUL:
We'll go off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
24
[
25 MR. PAUL:
Back on the record.
20 Mr. Alexander, have I or any other NRC 1
representative here threatened you in any manner or offered e
2 you any reward in return for this statement?
3 4
THE WITNESS:
No, sir.
5 MR. PAUL Have you given the statement freely and 6
voluntarily?
7 THE WITNESSt Yes, sir.
8 MR. PAUL Is there anything further you would care to add for the record on the matter?
9 10 THE WITNESS:
I would only say that if that-notification process memo was improperly worded, then I am 11 truly sorry, but the intent was never to restrict 12 f
13 information being provided to NRC.
14 MR PAUL:
The interview is concluded.
(Whereupon the matter concluded at 2:37 p.m.)
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 25 1
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REPORTER'S CgRTIFICATE f*
the attached proceed-This is to certify that ings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission s
in the matter-oft i
I""***A*"
NAME OF PROCEEDING:
DOCKET NUMBER Cincinnati, Ohio PLACE OF PROCEEDING:
that this is were held as herein apperts,.and thereof-for the file of the original transcriptthe United States Nuclear Regulato i
and thereafter reduced by me or under the direction of the court;_ report-taken by me is a true ing company, and that-the transcriptforegoing proceedings.
record of the and accurate lY QCary L. Baldwin Official-Reporter Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
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