ML20126D028
| ML20126D028 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Trojan File:Portland General Electric icon.png |
| Issue date: | 04/01/1980 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8004150311 | |
| Download: ML20126D028 (210) | |
Text
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UNITED STATES N UCLE AR REG UL ATO RY COMMISSION In the matter of:
EVIDENTIARY HEARING, PHASE TWO - TROJAN Dccket Nu:nber 50-344
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P1 ace: Portland, Oregon Date: Tuesday, April 1, 1980 Pages: 3913 to 4123 INTERNATIONAL VERsAT M REPORTERS, INC.
- , 6 SOUTH CAPITOL STREET 5. W. SUITE 107
( WASHINGTON. D. C. 20002 202 ans.imo
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IP.1!TED STATES
. 2 ( NUCLEAR 2EGI.TIsTORY CODiISSIOM r.
33 -______________
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.t In the Matter of: X X ,
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- } EVIDENTIARY HEARINC, X Dechet Nunber 50-344
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PHASE Th'O - TROJAN ,,
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The Pioneer courthouce e) .;
. Cc*r- Of Apt. ecla 2nd Ficor a 533 Southwest Yamhill Street i t .;. Pcrtir.nd, Orsgon 9 2.14 l
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t The abeva entitled me.ttar, r.at, pursuant to i 1 1 n
,2] cc11, before t~le 1.tcr.ic Safety & Licencing Board, before ,
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^ l Direct Crocs Redirect Rocross 3 l 1
A pc.nel of Kitnesses con- l 4 sisting of Donald _3roehl,. ..
Lief M. Erickson, Richard .
. S C. Anderson, Dr.. William l E.1Taita, and Kenneth M. j G Cooke - resumed. . . '3918
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Charles Trn:nEl 4000 4021 7l '
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_P. _P.. O_ _C _ E _I _D _I _:: _G apr. 1, 850 2 gggypy,hj 37;h?.: We will resume evidentiary hear-ep,. Su2 3 irg in the Trojar matter.
- / 4
- 4 I believe that the staff was concluding its cross-1 5 examination yesterday when we recessed, is that correct,'
6 Councel?
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7 MR. CHAY: "Jhnt'e correct.
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MR. AZbbFAD: Mr.' Chairman, before continue cross-0' p .. .
?d c:::mination, even though we dj.dn't hcve a trer.seript rif
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hectorday's proceedingc, there were a couple of mettors i C L. .
ii [; that hure como up where ce h:d come additional information.
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( '2 h Before cross-es; amination is resumer ~, it might be useful r
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13 lin to rcquire that.
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Dr. Enits?
i 15 j DR.TE5hE: hirst item thct I want to go back n .. . . . .
. 14 0i to is the nnrgin -- going bach :o question, I think, 124.
f 17 l We cre talking about a -12 to 1 ratio on capacity, and I i . .
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think :.n or sr to clarify the recocnse that's civan there, i l
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- g - i perh ps appropriate te go back to question 114.. And in !
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1 2: question 114, it states that, "Two slings vill be adequate I o[
e j 2; e to enrry the lond of place 3 with n five to one safety fcetor,-
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basad en 2.50 weight of the plat 2." It.says, "In addition, l
,. e y there are tuo r.6diticasi slings will also be able_to handle l
- g pc ,!l ths. load with als0 a safety factor of five.
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Actucily unen you calculate..it out, it's 6.4.
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C::AIMIAli MILLEn: Instead of five?
DR. WHITE: Yes. I maan if you get right down to . the whisker.
4 New, back in question 124, the 12 there was just 3 s indicating that there was in fact redundancy, and the 12 O
was for all four slings.
l CHAITe!AN MILLER: Oksy.
n Anything cise?
- 9 b, -- .
l Mn. A:5LFAD: .... Yes, while we were into that dis-10 P ~
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- cuscien, Dr.McCo[lon5$hed, % ct was the safety factor 11 iti .
d on the cuziliary hook?" And by.auxilicry hook, I mean not C 12 ij ,
jn:t the hoch itself, that plus all of the mechanisms chove.
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1 And that is fiv2 to one, and that is also stated to question 14 :
11
. 11-0, or unsrer to questica 114.
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!! CHAI2;iAl? MILLEP: On page 53?
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!!R. AZELFAD: Yes, sir.
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C3AIEG.1; MILLER: Thank you. ; i 10 [L . .
l: DR. McCOLLOM: I gussc I would interpret then 190 .. ..
[ when you scy, "Its turbina building crane hoch," that by 10 y h definiticn, is everything up to the point where it's' hanging.--
y si DR. ICITE: Yes.
22 . . .
4 i DR. E::COLLOM: -- in the structure?
23 .
!; DE.TEITE: Right.
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DR. Mch5LLOb And all mschenism ?
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DR. ImITE: Right.
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DR. IOCOLLOM 'That's what I didn't understand.
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e' i MR. A* GIT.AD: Dr.' White, you have some additional l information with respect to the pipe slesvas that were.being 1
0
. ached about at the time that cross-examination ended r
yesterdny?
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DR. IGIT3 To clarify t,he pipe sleeve arrangement, o l .
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ji and I think perhaps the quantity that's important, the actual l
10 h gap between the insido face of the cleeve and the outsids
i h faceofthepiEegoinhthEcughthesleave,goingbackand s .,! .
" il calculate those values, and I'll just list the nominal d, .- .
',I ciso of pipe and the resulting gap.
I U ?cr an G" nominal dicmeter pipa, there's a 12" 5
nominci sleavs which results in a 1.69 annulus er gcp.,
E' h For a 6" nominal pipe with a 12" sleeve, you
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and up with a 2.59 gap. And a 6" pipe does have a 12" sleeve.
" 10 ,. For a nominal 2" pipe, the sleeve is 6", resulting
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& in a gap of 1.23 inches." .
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'0 i Lin. AX%ED e Does thEt conclude the additional.
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'- information you have, Dr. White?
22 DR. IGITI:: Tcb. ~-
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gn, ;d5 pad [ ' Staff can resume cross-e::cmination s '
24 at this point.
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l' 3918
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1 . iihereupon, l
2[ A PANEb~OF hdIT! ESSES CONSISTING OF' DON.L.LD.LROE3L, LIEF W. ERICKSO!i, RICHARD C.
l 3 A OERSON, DR. WILLIAM H. WHITS, Id7D KENNETH M. COOF.I .
1: era recalled as witnacsse by the Government, having been 5 '
previoucly duly sworn, resumed the stand and tastified as 6 . .
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follows:
0 .
CROSS-E UCCNATION - resumed ,
o . ._.
L DY tiR. McGUR'3M:
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i Q Mr. Eroehl, I believe that yesterday you were 4 ,. .
!) csked cbcut the effects that dust generated from the drilling 11 !! -
j' into the r-line wall might have in the control room with respect to a cchinet that is in the vicinity of the r-line 13 d '
!! wc11. Do you recall ths.t tectimony?
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P. That's in the control room?
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- Q That's correct.
I 15 NP -
A Yes, I q :I. O Could you turn te page 21 of Licensec's Exhibit a
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277
. About ccvan lines down in the answer to question 20 p - - - - .
ti 43, there's m:ntion made of halfing a ss:.ll enciesure.
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>1 1, jj Wouldn't this encicsure limit the duct frc the drilling r 22 0 u
4 into that r-line wall? ,
.S ( 13 ;lj! I, 7het enclecere 10 mere to cctch the water frcm !
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' ~' Ii the drill thsn :2r ;s dust.
It would servo both purposes, I t
2~4 however,.the drill thct's being used is water lubricated. -
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e 3919 t So that when the drill breaks through, rather than get dust, e
ycu are going to get the grindings or residual from the "I drilling, plus tha cooling water. So actually you'll have i
4 say a small amount of drill r.ud out of there rather than 5
dust. It's a wet operation, so there really is no dust G
, + generation.
DR.McCOLLON: While you're there, could you
,.1, __. _. ..
h describe that centsiner that's ' going to be held against the
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vall?
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k- l:l MR. EP.oEE"a: It vill be just a sr.cil plastic box H. ._. . . _ . .. ..
vith a gasket seal. I a:a speeAing like 6" . It will be a O '. placticsnelosuresotha'$thedrillercanseeit. The
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!3 ! hole is r.a-ked so he knotic the location where the drill will
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H, brsch thrcugh. And it's just there to protect the area.
,O p Any water that cer as dcwn, he'll c tch it. Yne drill will
.i M[4 step, and he'll put rags on there and catch the unter and t
D i! wipe ic up. And that's the entent of the influence on that
- N l b side of the wall.
i M !u BYMb.McGUpRF.N:
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,'. O Would you please turn to page 53 of Licensee's El y R:hibit 277 ' ~ - ' '
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- 22 .h At the top of the pars', there's mention made of;
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(m 23 !. heltc being ncai te attaca pinte 7 and portions of plate 5, ,
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20 !lh 5, s.nd 3, Lrnsdia sly c.djecent to the cable penetrati6n.
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Do ths.sc bolts serva Eny structural pu pese?
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A I'd like to ask Dr. White to answer that one.
3 DR. MEITE: The only structural purpose that they would servo is to EaintAin plate clignE: net during the grout pla e ant arrangement, and essentially this is it, to maintain 5 ,
plate alignmant. j.
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BY MR. McGURREN:
7 g
Q Would you please turn to -- let me continue on with that question about the bolts. Do those bolts in
,C any way serve to resist the picte drop?
y . .
n A (White) The plate drop will be resisted by 11 j platas 1 through 4, 5 and 6, but not plate 7. And even
,, in plates 5 and 5 where these gravity in bolts are, those kh .
bolts are not relied upon, just the through bolts that are 14li being relied upon to rasist plats drop.
15 )d i G Would you pleace turn to page 51 of Licensee's 1G I, __
! Exhibit 277 17 9, j" .
There you indicate thct the z-bar guides will I
. .-l iv precluda the 1cteral move: ant of plate 7 until it is between te s
[ plates 5 and 6. What is the design criteria that was used 20 !;j ll to detersine the si=e and depth of the bolts that will bs 21 it ij used to anchor these -bar guidss?
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( A (White) The bolts that wa are using for the :-bar l
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guider is an expan$ ion anchcr-type of bolt, cnd for that r a: 1
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h we'rc used the design manufactersr's ultimate ecpacity i q
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divided by a cassty factor of 4, and Beanston block, multiply ]
2 that by .6, and this is the criteria that has been used for jl 3
other exptnsion Inca colta used within the Trojan Plant.
4 .
So, it's the same criterin we are using for pipe supports, i 5 . .
the whole works. .
s . . .
0 Uhst stresses did you us'e.in calculating the
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size of these bolts? '
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- A (White) I'= not sure. For stresses, just use I g ! __ __ . .s l the ultincte divided by a safoty factor of four, then tche
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0 .6 ef that.
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0 Did you 60 an analysic to calculato the stresces?
O 12 ;!
{j that the rui6.c dcald see and and that the bolus vould see' ,
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A (White) Me.ybe we're talking in terms of load 1/ !: - .
3, rath0r than stressas in the boltri.
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j, G Did you do an analy0ic of ths loads?
rt I? O '}
l; A (Unite) 'ics, these guides have been analy=ed o
j '/ o P to deter: tine the scismic loads on them. .}
3 ,'
'; .. . j i 0 could you please turn to Licensee's Ib:hibit 30 ,
.n
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h cnd correct ne if I':n wrcng, have only pertions of Enhibit h
l 2"* f" 30 been offered ct thic point? And is question 14 available
. n . . j
!! fcr cross-examination now?
i-22 !l i' O . .b2~2.AD : . 'ics, that-is the ene that is-cvail-l ll l
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abic for crocs-c::aninction.
t 74
~ l j, ME. McGUERID: All -' right ,
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3922
, 2 Plecselurn ~5o pag'e '4 of 5.of Licenses's Ex.hibit 0
3 30, and that's pag $ 4 Af 5 dealing with question 14.
4 In that r@sponse,.there was not mantion made of-3 5 the 6" thick wood cribbing orl the turbine building 'fiocr, 6 which cribbing was described in Licensee's Exhibit 27 in 7 response to question 116.
O My question is: Is this cribbing going to be 9 usedontheturbi$$buildingfloorwhenplate.8isgoingto be noved across it?
10l I
11 A (White) Yes, the cribbing will be used.
12 iI Q And whet wou55 be the purposa of this cribbing?
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s i _ _ . .
13 i A (White) One of the purposes it serves is to 14 provid3 somecush5$nbed':reentheconcratefloorandthe l
15 g channels in which the A-frame will be traveling. Just I
13 if- to cmc 0th the thing out so that you don't have, don't Lcuff 17l up the cencrete when you go across this kind of thing. It
- 10 I would Olco provide some softening of energy-absorbing in f
19 l- the event of a drop. I don't think this was figured into 10 j, our calculations, but practically, that's what it would P
21 do.
I Another function that cribbing, serves is to allow-22 ,
i 23 ;
I the ' plate te be h$$dled ct the came. elevction from the curb -
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h 24 cdjccent to the crcne hatchway, End the curb adjacent to' 23 ! tho :-line vall. These carbs cre,6'.high, and to go.over ;
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J il 0-3923
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those curbo and across the floor would require the plate to 2
be poccibly 6 to ? inches above the floor without the cribbing ,
3
, 0 Will this cribbing be in place when there is
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4 movement of plata 7 ac$ces the turbine building :ficor?
5 A (Brochi) No, we don't plan on that.
6 O Would y$u please turn to page 56 of Exhibit 277 7 The.questio$'Ihaveconcerns~theeribbingthat f --
8 l will be used to -- will be uced when plate 3 is lowered inte 9 ~; place. And in your enswer to 121, question 121, you' men- r I
10 i tica that there are twc ctacks of 4" long timbers with.a 2" i:'
i,,
11 6e timbsr en top nnd t'i" thich ?L-cad ac the bettom. In 0
12 1 the isst centence on that pt.ge, you state, "As the plate is k d 130 lowersd" -- that's' place 8 - "into picce, the cribbing will V
v 1 ', ;, be rencIed piece-by-piece with the 2" thich timber to be n
ll 15 ?!o removed last."
i 4 '
$5 ' ,
Mow, I'd liks to have'you try to remarber'that g I, sentenco, cnd I w$$t to read another sentence from E:hibit 30. y i
- g On page 5 of 5, in responce to question 14, An the third paragrcph on that page, lact sentence J 19l-20 f; starting with, "as the FI. ate is loucrad." Ecvs.you found 1 -
l I
'l i
p that IGntence?
y 22 A (Anacracn) Yes.
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32 0' It cava, "As the plate is lowcred'into place"---
w v . 2d this*' m tu> vies s, . b m eve - "ehe cribbing x m bt 23j renovad piece-by-piece uieh eht .xt pcd to be removed lese.'"
Yi
1 1 i
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- Now, can you explain -- it' appears to me to be
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b adiscrepancybetNdenthosetwosentencesthatI'veread. I' 4
A (ITaito) Well, ever in question 21, if I've got myfingersintheEightspothers--therewewerejust 5 i talking chout the last piece of wood to be removed, t> '
O can you explain what the sequence 'would, be -
for all four pieces? hhetwopiecesofthe4" timber,thd,
- . 2" tider, and then the EL-pad?. -
3 r h, 10 [, A (White) tiell, okay if you go back to figure 13 7 5 -
h O this ir getting c lot of fingers ecuch in the book hers,but 11
{ -- okay, shon on 13-a starting frca the bottc= cf th6 stack C 12 ji >
( ! going en up, you've got cn 2L-pad.and then the stach'of 4x4s 13 ll l i I topped Off by 2" thich material.
i lao, .i .
. Okcy, the method of entraction, you ctart pulling
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i 4 out ths 4" Octerial until the ctack,dagenerates down tc.the i 15' l point where all you have left is iihe XL-ptd on the bottom,
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- c 2' timber en the. top. Thenyod.take out the 2" piccz of' v +
+
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' wood first, that tchec out al'1 of the wood, the only thing.
19 ....
left ncW is the XL-pad. Nour . ^ ii: order to get plate 8 into l 20 ;;
- l . .
h pitcs, in its finEl position, you've.got te tahe out the ZL.
_vs ,
1 DE. McOOLLOM: Would you clarify that it ic the
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- 4=4 below the 2" that is pulled cut each tina?
s .
.s i Dn. IEITE: Tes, the tider is beina reu.oved ' -
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I- DR. Mc00LLOM:-'Nou, that's t.42 poic% fue very ;
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et**
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i 3925 I
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bottom one right up above the XL-pad is the one thtt will 2
be removed?
3 DR. WHITE: yes, first.
4 DR.McChLLON: Can you describe how that is to 3 he removad? It has all the usight of the other 4x4's above it
(
6 on it, right? Can you get some information on that?
7 MR.ANDhRSbN: Well, what we plan to do is maybe O put an eye or somsthing like that, a hook, into the end of i
9 the timber. It's only four feet long. And pull that out.
h 10 j If that can't be done manually, it will be done maybe with i
a ecmscieng to get enough force to pull it cut. If there's 11]
,-~s. y
/ ) 12 ! too much friction for that, you'll simply take a crowbar and
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pry the stack up just encugh to take the weignt off of 13l i
Di[ i the 4x4 that you're trying to slip out, and then you'll 1
15 [ pull it out, I
i H5 j DR. McCOLLCII: There's no reason to believe O uhat the 16 4nd's $ta$kka en top of it in any way might bc 10l displacad?
I'J ,. ANDERSON: Hell, they would be movod, maybe 19 hn n . _ _ . . .
20 ii I moved up very slightly, but you would just pry that stack I
Il i
21 up just enough to get the wcight off the 4x4' that you're l -
s 22 g pulling cuu.-
I *Ae're not sure exactly how much friction there 22 1
/ 14 [ will be there, but certainly there are many alternativec l'
25 to allow thct lower 4x4 to be entracted.
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3926 )
/~' i k-s% / I DR. McbOLLO:$ My only concern was the stability -
of all of them abcne it. I could visuali=e --
3
, DR. UHITE: Stability will be maintained, let-
~ ~ 7 4
me' assure you of that. Now, there's a number of different
- 0 ways it can be done.
G You notice on figure 13-a, keeping the cribbing ;
7 in place'is a steel plate. The way to do it.is just to 8 drill holes through thb steel'plEte at the level of thac_
9l cecond dr4 above the bettem one you've taken out. , Ram a I .
10 ij crowbar in thers, grab it, pry'dewn on it, and away you go. '
i'
!1 ,
You de that on both ends, so there's a number of wayh that P 12 .
it can ba done. I think it's a matter of the journeyman J -
Il 13 5 there on the jcb figuring out what's the most convenient I '
, in l ;
for them, given the tools available. The stack
!5 I e won't tip over though.
is! i s'[Ma, NcGURNEM:
17 ' C Esforo plate 8 is positioned in the clot over 'the f
. 10 j other platos, will the concrete behind plates 1 to 7 have t 19 reachedtherequirodsthangth,andtheboltsinthoseplates- 1 10 'lj be cufficiently tencioned such as the required friction .
b 2f :[. rocietence to a drop of plate 8 will be devalcpad? J l '. . ,
22 4. (White) In terms of timing'ef: boring plate 8 i
. . - . .. t 22 h after .the ethoritates liave been'in place, I've forgotten the
~"
1 i 24 cncet tiac dslay, but it'r:in the neighborhood of fcur to L I
\
25 cir weeks, so the concrete will have been brought up to )
J l i
l il
- . l :. ;
. ~ _ _ - _ . . - _ _ _ , _ _ _ . .L
f8 f
, -m u 3927 f 1 i
,,/ '
i
. strength.
- a r- i The inst piece of concrete to be a.dded'
, .e . . . .
is the grout, and that sete very quickly, so that will come 4 4 ..
up quick.
In terms of tensioning the bolts, c11 those need c ___ ....
to be is just snug.
7 -
Q traat size bolts will be used for the plates.?
3 --- -
eI
.. (Unite) The through bolts?
g .__ .
y C Correct.
. q"
- n. - .
i ,.
(Brochl) The drawing shews that the bolts are
- 3 .-- .
~
1-2/4".
m s
o in recent discussions, with the NRC St'cff- regarding
. i L- n . .
i,%as,! .
the in-service ine.ection .:ro:rran, it was cgrsed that we . i
.. p
'~ .. . ,
d )'
p.
would chcne.t these boite ci:ec to 2" diarater holts, lower 1.,,
H:l the strasses in the bolt to a level where rer. oval of the
.'~n x }l , -
. ,. l n holt for visucl ins.eection for ctress corrosion-tvpe effects -
i t
5 vould no longer be required.- So, these bolts are now 2"
] */ ll:. : >
,, m....~.e.,.,
.a 2 m O Dr. iinits, you mentioned that with regcrd to g
1 , . _ . . . . . .
,] tensioning cd the bolts, wall, snug in the bolts, with 20d)?'. .ragard te Onugging them before plata 8 would be move.d en
, , . 1
., p q uop o.: c_ ana e anc o.
,.,on, a. th:. r enugging give you tn.e
- i. ,
" I h tencien thct you need to uithstand or develop the correct
, .:. J,i
-~
m 7
h friction for sun.e.crtine .cinte 0? -
O "
P .n. In terms cf the evcrall recistance, in the i ... .
L i
una.u:elihood of plate 5 dropping, what would happen ic l
t f s' fl si
- a. ., .
! l i 392E
\'- '
plate S would come down, hit the platas that are currently-I 2
in osition. First thing that would happen is the' bolts
~
3 wil,l'go into bearing. Now as the deframation will continuer-
~
. there will be sc=e stretching in'those bolts and the stretc,h-a.c
- ; 5' ing of the bolts .due to the defrcmation caused by 'the ,,'
i . .
O dropping o'f plate 8. This is where the tension comss froz,'
7 resultingfin the friction. Nod, 'kIEs. is a different mockiand.sm j O
than is usec to dAvelop the fricti[cnal forces after ad 'the
- I .
9 !i plates have bacn in placo. Thore we are applying a post-10 tension lead And t'$ ere is no defracation required for the 11 i tancion force to be there. It is there befere any de'frama-p 12 l
tion takes place. LEt in arrebing a plate drop, there
\s 13 ; we're talking about defrce.s. tion developing in the bolts 1 . . . _ . .. ,
14 0 ac c result of the incact, cnd thct stretching providing '
i a
15 lln thetencion.doEce. So th$rs is a different nachanism 10 involved. ,
17 l .
Q In the snugging you mentioned vculd be sufficient?-
i .... .. .
10 l L (Uhite) Yes, sir.
19 0 For the plate drop?
20 A (White) Righ . .
2! j Now, th$ ac$hunicm that we'rs ucing there is t i,l. ._ . . .
22l escenticily the same ac ths mechenism used in devaleping l 23 chee'recistance fer Nelson ctudo, for instance. .The same.
O) =zchanism.
I
( 24 The e.ic no prelcad in a Nelsen stud, but you l '5
- ' ge
- the resists.nce fron it. Same nachanics is bcing used h
3929 V 1 to arrest the plate drop.
2 Q Would you please turn to page 34.
g In your answer to question 64, approrittstely a
4 four lines from the bottom of the first paragraph, you
~
mention shield otyle No. 400-24.
6 -
Shouldn't that be shield v style No. 800-24?
- I. (Ehichsen) I believe you're correct there. I wanttochschour$ourEss.
^ il 1
".t CHAIIIIdi MILLSR:
10 4
i, ITnat's the difference .between
! the 400 and the 000, _ Counsel, do you happen to know?
,)
3 y
MR. ERICKSCIi:
I believe it was just a typographical r 4 N
4 srror.in the c.remar z tion of the tesimony.
r 13 9 CUAZb?5li!LLER:
Oh, I sse. Thank you. '
"' l 11R. McGUR22K: That's all the Staff has, Mr. ,
- Chairatn.
I
,i (l'
, CEAI2"M! MILLER: thank vou, s ir.
. ,. I
'I
[ I.ct me sac, who has not'yct cross-ertm' ned? I 10! ,
I i
guess'all parties, tharefors, are bach --
I? 'I;
. ti".. OSTRMiDOR:
y There was one crea cf our question-
'O l;i '
i.?estcriarthat'wasfood$edonaccinb.vtheitRCttthebainnine, i '
,,. i
!; cf their cross-eranination thct lef. tc soms ecnfusion,'I t
i 22
/ think. 'It uns regarding the activities in the cable-spreading i,
ft 23 liroomandthefireprota$tienplcnrequiranents. It might h'l i
24 .l4 nahe:che reacrd elecrer if we could csh our questions cgcin 44 25 j and get a uniform answer from the pansl.- It.=ight make'the '!
e .
') _+ ___
1 i 4 (N ;
3930 ;
(
/ t roccrd a little bit cicarer if i.*e could ask our questions 2
again, either new cE during recroso. ,
~
CHAIRS.N MILLER: You want to ask questions again? l 1
4 l MR OSTRV? DER: Just questions that relate to l 5
that one area.
O CEAIRMAN MILLER: All right. Go ahead. ,
7 l gy gg,"0STRkthDER:
- 8 O Mr.BroShl,[fyoucouldturntopage34of
, i __ .
- I Licensce 's E::hibi 27. I U f I n
10$ We discucced yesterday the protection measures u
- that will be taken to ensure that the cable trays will be o -1
[s i
t
/
H protected from cpattars, slag, or sprr.ks, et cetera from v . ., n -
m y the welding that vill occur in the cable-spreading room.
l' 14 Could you describe again the protection censures that will
,1 15 U be taken?
I 16l A These protection r. assures that will be taken will D be in conformance with the fire protaction procedure
- 70 required in our wolding and cutting permit procedure.
19 ! Mr. Erickson can recite the applicable parts of I
~
- h 20 0l! that a;
orocedure.
I i
2' ; A (Erickson) I have beferc na part of our fire i
22 H procaction report, and its request fer additional inforzation ,
25 from the NRC dated Aucust 19, 1977, wherein the KRC Staff
/ ~~\ w hq -
( ) 24 jj sct forth some administrativo centrols uhey wanted, requested,i s_- g 25 be implemented at he plant regarding centrol of welding, I
3931
% 1 cutting, grinding, and open-flams work where they cuggest i
~
that all moveab1e, combustibio material below and within a' {
3 I
4 35-foot radius of cutting, welding, grinding or open-flar.e work be rs=oved, and also all immovable, combustible materials 5
within the sana area --
6 CHAIRIIAN MILLER: All what? Removable?
7 _ _ . . . . .
liR. ERICT. Solis Nonremovable --
c . _ . .
C'I.UF.!* J JJ CLLER: *Ionre=ovabic. '
c .
p ._ . ..
/P IiR. ERICH30;?: -- materials within that same area 10 ;'
g of in.~luence be protected by asbestos curt: ins, metal guards 11 ;i . . .
l or f.1.CDC?r002 CCVC:s. . 1l
,f je
.-g . . .
a response to that, the administrative procedura -
13 k j which wa referred to as the cutting, welding, brazing j 14 i: J j zafety proceduro, PS-7, which also establishes the cutting, f 1I :
1 i
welding and hurning pernit which is described in our 13 testimony requires materials within a 35-foot radium be 1 *l ,l I protected by .meval or protoc icn with protective blankets 10 t or etchr fire barriers. !
l 19 CHAIRMJ.IC MILLE 3: Or other what? I o n' ... .. .l If 13. ER~CESOM: Tira bcrricr. !
u ,. oit
- - l fo SY .v.R. OSTRA!CEn:
22 [ . ... . . .
Q So it'c your tertirony that the cable trayc within
{
23 h . .. .
p 3.", . san or ',.2iding vill he covered wibh fire blankots?
\ 24 0 -
i A . (Brechl) Th:y'll be cceered er otherwic.. protectod,
25 ' s.o as no preclud<, any parks gatting to them.
---__a_- -
9 I
3932 O
i V 1 Q Would you describe the "otherwise" protective? ,
2 A (Broehl) This would be, as an erample, a b a
.. . u 3 physical barrier that would enclose the work area se khaf: C 4 aparks could not get cutside the work area. This is, in ,
5 effect, the sa=e thing as dovering the cable tray. '
G Q The plan described. by Mr. Livingston also --
7 Erickson, I'm corry - mentioned protecting combustibles?
G, A (Broshl) Yes.
l . _ . _ . . . . . .
9 0 Mould you describe how that would be done? j 10!! A (Brcahl) It would be done in the same manner. I; h i
- n. .__ . . . . r N lly Ac an e::ctple, if you had a scaffolding with wood plank
\
12 y\ onthescaffoldingfroE"*EhicNyouw2redoingthewelding, l l 13 l thrt scaffold 5.ng wou$d Navoto be.ccvered with the fireproof i
M! i blankets ao that you could.not start c fire en the scaffold f
I 15 itself.
- j r, ;
i O Uculd these blankets also extend 35 feet frem 17 the work?
ic 'l A (Erochl) Chay entend to cover the scaffold i
19 ! fully. If the scaffold is 35 feet, they would go the full e
a . . .
20 !! 35 feet. I i
o .
I 21 i MR. OSTRAli 22: ThaY n all we have, Mr. Chairman. I i i
l 22 ThC0h YOU-j e b CHAIRMT.N IIILLER: Thank you.
~h ;
p
$ 24 j' g .-.
anything furthsr by anyone?
( ,
4 1
1 x . 'I
,g -
lin. McGU'sRGi: Mr. '~nairr.an r 'juet.to make sure l
Q
~. .
m---- , - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ,
l 1 , t' 3933 1
,, thct the record is clear on this peint, I uculd like to 1
{
P.
know if the applicant when interproting PS 7 of the tarin )'
3
,, " welding," that term includes CAT welding?
s'i MR. BROEHL: Yes, it does, "e
CEAIRM5hMI553R: Very well.
~
O Dr.McCollom[Ithinkhassomequestions.-
7 QUESTIONS 37 THE BOARD:
3 O In the $act discussion thct you had with the 1
9 staff prior to the prehearing cc forence, there were, a's I )
IO Ifundcrstandit, sin structural i=provements.added to the four II liF that were originally. designed into the systen,'cnd the E statementthatyouhaveAnde.inyourevidenceisthatthis J l
G previd:d only limited additional asicr.ic capacity. Can '!
, 1
- . 1 14 you quzntify th:t in soma'ucy? l 1
15 !N. . ;025h.nn:' Dr. Mc0clicm, would you prefer to l '- tchethesetypesofquc$tionsupwhenwediscussstructurcl 17 t
cdequacy or is there soma rensen you'd lik: to take them j i
. 10 i!' up in connection with the ::icdification ' program?
l 19 CELIR!EN li1L* s ta: Tou are -- !
p . . . .
20 i Dn. McCOLLCM: lie should wcit. It was in this h-0 21 y' thEh the thought cbm-3 1h but.yor, arc right.
- 27. ! C GIRMJJi MILLER: iic'll defer in until'toccrrow-
- -1 22 , 'or the nant dEy. ;
4 M
, , DR. McCOLLOM: Then you ccn all belprepared.
g .. ..
25 II. 2JCLEA.D: Our witnesses are prepared at this if
. . . . . . ')
~ .
1
- 1. ,
-i t i :
l I
- H34 -
1 s,i .
i '
'I point, but the record might bs clearer if we waited. l- t 2
CUESTIONING EY TEE BOARD: -
3 -- -- _
3Y DR. McCOLLOM: -
4 --- --
On page 12, question 18, I would like to first i.I i
Q.
5 ---- -- - -
praface my' questions with some of the things I will b.si,asking ., .
6 * -- - - - - -
- and are terely trying to get a feel'for something that' -
7 . .
I havan't really seen and looked at, or ceen the drawings on -
l c' .. . . . .. , ,
i
- nnd been abic to figure cut what it is that we're worhing with ,
o>
~
tj 1.nd enc of these is the fact. that you are rencving pertions h
To"l of tne pre:crmed steci siding, gird steel, t.nd precast panels .
I j'[o along the n-line wall to e:: peso its east face so that i
i
+ - - 1 l "9 '
j- the new concrete can be placed against it. That's in question 13 ;r. ' '
m , C. .
F [
3" l Uculd you describe those items further, and -l 11 g~ !
indicate wh.:ther this changos the s<.ructurni capacity of l U I j the building in ycur opinicn?
... o 5 h A (White) In terms of the way the building sits i
f i
' ','- '. i : . _ . ..
I there right nou, you've got the concrete block composite Ir l h
L i po . ,
- ili. , wn113 -- thct is not the outside face.
,, ,. u . . . . . . ,
"* 4 LIAIntG.H MILLER: Cod 1d you show us on this - i it
.c. d t
modal'cnd E.11', whct we'rs talhing about? Let ne criented,
'ft, ', .
22 . cr'doseitsufficientlyidentifythecreas--- -
" DRJ E5DE: Okay, q U
l- . _
P
,I .
y} - .CEAIRMArcEIL2 R: -- that you're going te.be- .
1.
-t. . . . . . .. .
3' discussingI ,
i i
,i.
- i. t . _ . --
=
2935-r 1 k 1 DR. WHITE: This is the side that we're talking E about, tb 4-line, and this is the east face of the building,
, 3 so what we need to do is to open up or gat this piece of 4 concrete;in there. Now, the concrate between elevation'77
- i
.-G 5 and 93 and the ones below, we'll start off with this piece' G here. This is going to go in the gap that exists between' j 7 the concrete wall and the actthal exterior of the building, l 3 and between the gap there is a structural system called I
s.f girth to the hori=ontal members that rua, that support the. !
~
U . .. . \
10 i siding. Se, aci:uclly there's a whole obher structural I I
11 tI sJ etz. on the side of ths building to support the siding. -
That anchers sag rods, because it.has to be removed. -
12 q
(
- 3 il, Now, thi$ where the concreto le going to be a ._ ...
g4 picced, .:o in the final con:'igurati'on, the concrete will e
p - -
$3 d be supported -- the siding vill be supported directly by-
- 3 I
y< r,l the new concrete that's being added. i I.
l i g ., l Cur::ontly there is a one-foot void in there.
i I Wa're going to tohe that void cat and fill it with concrete.
.S .
l 1
39 So,inorderdo makeplabewithconcreteencing,weare 20 l removing all this siding, 1: w, the siding, the girt and H
g 4[
g sag-rod syster., this has nothing to do with the structural j '
g3 Ocpacity of tne wcils. It is all supported off of the.
33 attachments to the concrete cr.the steci columns. So non'e' ;
O '~
. .cf this h r anything to do with siding capacity.
Q
'f-j ;
.l.- Aeroving itidocs not detract from' tho. siding capability of !
25 4 4
.{
i
$ ~. __ .___ _____--__ - _____-____-_ -__.______ - L---_--_ - -
t,-
3936 -
\ 1 the structuro. ~'
1 2 ,
Now, uhen W get around to doing the work on .i.
i - q 3[ r those colurms hs.ea, en r-41, we'll have to do a similar ,
!.l 4,:
aj kind of arrangament, to work ba'ck of the aiding so we'll, j i
i . . .. . '
5 have c.n opportunity to get in there and work it. We hav e t
3
, the sama kind of cituntion, the structural support system"'P for the -- is totally independent of the siding capabilitiy j
7 e
c or ciding --
. i e, ,d DP.. Mc00LLOM: Very good.
if . . _ _ . . _ _ .
Thank you.
I w, j
,j ... . . _ .
t i
i 11 ., QUESTICIG G 3Y TEE BOARD:
p 12
,"f i
3Y D?.. Mc00LLOM:
1, I O During the construction process, rihat. kind of
, l, f,e ;
a conctruction equipment will actually be brought into the I
b j'q rcilrcat bay area 5 -
i g
b t o,, I I am particularly interected in heavy construc- ! !
1, h
tion, nct shovel:: cnf. things of this nature.
I, A (Broch1) There'c really ne hetv.'/ conctruction '
s :
i t
erruip.znt that will be broucht-in there. Ac I mentioned 19 : !4 i
I 2,.,
i' ecrlicr, thera ' sill bc probchly a dump truck to take out i, p ..
gj .
the residual concrats. Prchab1v c front-end loader to I ,
" i M+
, ., s .
. '- b r.t , the concrete, -Smhs, vou know, the broken -
(
t -
,_ g concreto, fragments up, ' 4n the truck. There ,'
~p ;
24 6 ll will have to be 1cce.ted so:ccuhere in the immediate vicinity '
( I! !
l a concrete pump to pn=p the 00ncrete up ';c fcrms and adjt. cent. t l
1 25 .
6 l .
k t
i .!
l .h..
7 i
4,;3'I
- J i
]
I to t,p, you 'll. have rendy-mi:: concrete trucks will be '
1 delivering concrete. /
3 Now, depending on the openings in the building, 4 that concrete pu p and truck may well both be outside.,It ,
5 may be for our convanience we'll have thom inside the bay.
O But this is the limit of what --
7 0 In the delivery vehicles for the plates,-- '
_ _ . .. . I 3 A (Brcehl) Pardon?. - '
- s. Q Thedal[ver[vehiclesbywhichthesteelplates i
10 q are brought in.
11
[h A (Broch1)
They will; be brought.into the turbine
- 2
- building clong the railroad track there so they get under-( !i 13 ll nenth th; crane bay so the turbine building crane will .
i 3,' pick the lead off of the truck. *
- 3 0 On a railroad car or something.
.c A (Brochl) 50, it will be en c truck bad. The 1 ,
le I
tru:h will just db[Ee in therc. It's truch access as well
- a, ,, h as rail.
, gg IG. ANDERSO2: Det that acce:S is in the turbine g ... ..
29 .: building, and from the turbine building side, and has .
D o
og j nothing to do with the work thct's going en in the rtilroad i
,o
! boy, the access to bring the plates in.
6 1
2,. j ,
MR. ERCEEL: The control building.
4 ..
! OUESTIO II;G IT TES:30ARD:
(_,)
- I c5 l i.
EY.DR. McOOLLCM:. ,
- You te $:inate. that railroad that face the
~
Q-4 .
1
- d. - - --- - - - - - - - - - - - -
I O ,
3930 V 1 .
control building?
?. .
A (Anderson) Yes.
3 --- -
Q That's where you stcrt the head work?
4 .... ..
A (Anderson) Yes, sir.
5 ..- .
O I guess 't was a little bit surprised to find
. s.
., s .
that redundant trains for surface' water and diesel. fuel ;..
wsre placed so close together,;is.this standard procedure I
8 j for redundant,. lines, -)ust as a general design feature in e
' , [! ,
ll, nucicar plants? >
\C l A (. anderson) Tiell, we try to rc.intain separation
' ' l4 of redundant systens, but when they're buried like that p~'
l in the ground that phycical separation is supported by 1# i the dirt and the fact that they cre buried. <
D I i O PInindme,isthecontrolbuildingapositive l g
'~
pressure with respect to the outside?
U A (Ericksen) The control roem itself, notLthe
' ? cntire control building, as a require =ent to be able to 10 cbtain a positive prescute 1c. our surveillance requirecents
~ ~
to" establish a.ninirez positive.prsasurs e*-1-?"
"e ',-,
j;. vctor pressure in the centrol room.with operation of the j h
m
" il 4 ensrgsncy control room ventilation sjstsc, which is operated j 11 V l 2'-
in the svsnt of cn accident or other situabien such as
.. I,
" chlorine in-the vicinity er some other cas which recuires D
r ii
~
' 2'I thecontrolroch.to$s'isclatsd. This positive pressure 25 is to ensure that any contaminant gtsen or particulate ...
t i
I- .
- , 'j
U 3939
.n -
( '
\ 1
' does not ingress into the centrol room and interfere with 2
e -
, the operator's actions. i l i .
4 O Is$.hecentrolroomthenlyrooninthebuil.
o ding
'~ '
that is maintained at a different; pressure with respect to the outside atmosphere? I 6 i Thar's corbect.
~
A (Erickson)
/ ,
O Going to the cable tray covers, not having seen e
such a cover, would you tell me if'there's any possible
~1 l.
ha:crd, I'd guess I'd say, of installing those cable trays 10 1
during opsration of the reactor?
11 I r
A (3rochl) Wall, they're quite a simple cover.
gN 12
( ! It's just a piece of 12-gage steel with a lip on the edge, 13l l and it's wide enough to go over the covers and their 14{
immediato connections.
l' ; i, s,
l Q How heavy is the lid? 'Approximately?
13 .. .
1 p A (Brochl) About 12 inches. It's my guess, and t- 1 that's what it is, it's a fairly close approximation, I'd
. 10 say it's about 30 to 40 pounds per cover.
19 1
- l. A (Cooke) Thsy come in about six-fo t secticns.
n av ... .
O Okay, f
21 .
l l h'honever you have an enclocure tha you've referrad:
d d . !
j to several times to protect against missiles, how-big a n
~ Il
(
L._
24 i
closure, typically, tight that be? ,
( A (Erochl) One place where we know we're Ecing to 15 --
require an enclocurs is on the 41-r column, and we're
i l
g ,
3940
~_ Y 1 speaking of an area there approximately five-foot by five- -
foot in the corner of the auxiliary switch gear room. 'That
- 3 would'be the dimensica of space inside where the workmen 4 would be performing these activities. That would go floor 5 to ceiling.
0 0 ifow, that's one place, but do you-have other 7 places where you'll be using that kind of enclosure?
~
8 i A (Brochi) At present, we really don't know of 9 . any olcce where we are geing to be required to use it.
1 10 Kuch of the rect of the ternincny on this was precautionary.
l In the event, in performing the removal of the concrete ,
/ 12 from the exterior part of the building, what wa're trying
\s_- !
i2 to do is leave the ene width,' the masonry, . tacked on the 14 inside and not get into the buildings. If in the process 15 We damage those blocks and they have to be rezoved, ,.
15 i there's going to be scra work required inside. In that 1
17 ' ever,t, wc would build a cimilar form of enclosure.
10 New,thisic--3ottniIn/1 exista'for.a column 19 p lino 45-n in the chitc1[ gear room, and as I mentioned yester-N ~
c.ny, en ths 41-r up in the cable-spreading roc =, and that's -
20 ll precautienary.
l -
21 ]i If we perform the work like we l,,
1 22 ; prcposs, they-will not be required. ;
, i I
23 I
O 'Several timas ve've referred-to cabinets that were !
- i 24 .in the vicinity of pescible'cencrete block work. Ecmind 23 me where that was.- .
7
- l. I
4 Ii' 3941 1
,7-s y i' I i' A (Cocke) That is in the electrical at::iliaries
! l j room. It's elevation 65 in the control building.
3 Q And I belie;u the testimony was that there was not any nnternal -- well, there was an enclosed --
~ =.
" l~ A (Cooke) Cabinet.
.. 1 6
0 -- cabinet.
7 Are there any svitches, meters, that sort of thing 3
on the outside ofShes[
l e i
's k A (Cooke) There is, but they're not facing the a
i0 'l work aroc. We're c1 ways working from the recr of the 11 11 !! cabinet.
12 0 And from the rear of the cabinet, there are no 13 -- it's just plain matal closure, so that if any missile-14 ll were to ccms from thct directica, it would not impinge o
t 15 i in any way en cwitches, meters, er that cert of thing?
k .
'S ',l t A (Cooke) That's correct.
17 I Q I'd like to warn you, to give you a little bit
. 10 oftimetothink$'outit,thatI'm--Iwouldliketo'get b
19 : in one place in this testimony. The sequance of handling
. I 20 ! the clates from thE ctart to the liaish, including the I
21 !,:, tolcrnnces that are going to be met in terms of the floor, et cetera, and let mi just point out that your answer to 22 {
d .
23 !j the question, in my opinion, was not whct I'd _ccll, a really o
/ \ -
(s. 24 , complete description of that in your answers to my pre-25 hearing conference questions.
I 3942
\m 1 In the end, I'd like to have us walk all the.
2 way through, including .the orientation of the plates, !
l 3
raising them up, moving them along, what it moves on, are 4
they on rollers or are you lifting it and carrying it above .
5 the floor, if so, how much; the orientation of the plate 5 1 as it's carried across, how it's placed in, and et catera. j 7 t For irstance, in the answer to your -- to my i l
8 questien in the prehearing conference, you did not mention o~
i*
r the -- what did we ccll the.~a yesterday? Guide columns. So, 10 '
l I'd like to have you go thror'gh the total procedure.
I I I Now, I have soms other questions that I'm going 12 (v to go through, but in tha end, the Icst thing that I'd like 13 for you to do is walk thrcugh that in great detail. ,
i l e' Ucu, as a matter of my informatien, there's on 15 l
page 48, on question 102, you telk.about grouting at 1"
..l
- gcp. I'd just like to know with the kind of gap that we 17 !i have hera, cpaced ou$ by spaccrs cnd the like, is there IOl any poscibility of the gnpc being left when you grout' 4 1" gcp?
20 lp A (Whitei ~ In termc of the methodology that'c
(,I . . . . .
l 2I ;? being used, it is e::tremely unlikely.
Now, let me explain ,
i '
22 a little bit more about the overall process. j p
t-'r 23h,1 The consistency of tne greut is chout like *
~
1 g 24 1' ,
tomate soup, not ts it comes out of the can, but, ycn know, 25 W en you get ready to eat it. Se e it's a very, very4 i
___.________.-_-________--_.---_---_----i!.------------------- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ' ' ' ' ~ ' ~ ~ '
D 3943 i
s ,
I liquid materic1. And in addition to thrt, there will be j vibrating going on as the materici is being placad. So, 3
looking at a grout that is that thin, along with vibration, A
it's virtually impossible for a hang-up, craate.a void, t
5 bridge over something as opposed to other kinds of concrete.
6 So, it in extremaly unlikely.
7 0 would.you describe to me the. chain hoists that. '
~ ~ ' '
3 are going to be used to bring the plates into place?
O :. (White) Well, if you've seen a chain heist that iC is used to raise a Li p garage door, it's a similar errange-i i -
11 i, mont.
12 Q I hcven't --
la r. (White) Ir an there' great' big locgers. Iceptrs
(
le '
ars ==ue"ly c.: rated hoisting syrtarts. Tnera are semral p"1'42s, 15 raducticn gaars, end everyt:hing, up in the b:m,' end thare's a great
!? big loopsr chain e.d st:tre rel"--g. ,
17 O Thereabealotcfredu=tiongears,.sothe 12 possibilityofrapidmohamentisverylimited,isthatcorrect?
19 l A (brochi) Nhe type of hoist we're using has a 2.0 differential ganr_and at which it virtually precludes the 21 'loadbeing2.51ctodrive-the' chains. That's the reason for-22 ths type of-hoist being.used.
23 i O Are these menucily' operated chain. hoists?
24 j ' J. (Ereshi) - Ye s . -
l 23 Q ,
could you giva m your insight as to the abil'ity'of-l ... ,
.l .
L_ __ _ _ _ _ JL : a
f j l I I
n L
' 3944 ,
/ i 1 1 ; i N
the control building to withstand a, say, shutdown earth- {
l i
2 quake or the seisnic capability of the building is a better 3
way of describing it, at the time you're getting ready to 4
install plate 8, is there more or less capability than the
. 5 building has right now?
l l 6l A (White) Considerably more.
7 'O Considerably more.
~
B[ A (White) We've added in -- by the time we get c
9l ready to put plateli in, essentially all of the r wall will
(
10l bo in place c cept for plate 8. 'We've' coded a new cone' rete 11 ! between elevakion 45 $nd 65,' $ hat's 3 8 8" thick. That 12 stuff has been sitting there wall beyond the time required
(N s . . . ...
13 l to get it up to full decien ctrength. - We've-added a.new .'-+4
, l , , , _ . . .
I 14 H foot of conc $etd bc$veen elevations 65 and 77.
i That is t
i 15 4 also up to design strength by the time plate 9 gets around l
15ytebeingplacad.
Il 17 l- We have also added in plates 1 through.8, I'm i . _ . .
. 10 scrry, 1 through 7, and that has bsen -- grout has been placed l I .
1Ep 'I behind that.
l So thet vall is a lot better off then than it j l
. . 1 2] !l 1s now. A considertble amount of strength has been added.
~
O ,
21 I It's very likely, e.ithough the ccnstruction l
l .-- - - .
l 22 i cequence does not require it, it's very likely that a.large i l j . . l- i
\
23[portien.ofthenwallwillcisobeinplace. More than
-f !
f-ws _~ p
( 24 j likely, the pie $e Nrom 45 to 65 will be in place and alsc .
( h 25! the material frca 65 to 77 uill be in place, so,that wall is
F i
39/.5 F
l 1
going to be a .'.ot better off, ei prime, cf course, will be 2 .
there'up to full strength.
3 .
'So', there's going to be a lot of capccity added 4 .._ .
before plato 8 is ready to be placed.
~
5 0 When you are drilling holes through the concrete 6 -- .
-- well, I guess-any wall that has reinforcing bar or conduit 7
in it. There's one place I remember it was a threa-inch 3
, hole, is that correct?
-o 1 ,
l
".h A (White) Yes, sir.
10lI 11 -
- O Id1 right.
I Do you drill a 3" hole the first time you drill O IE! ahole,ordoyou$seap~ilotholemachanismorwhat?
U 13
! What is your procedure?
14 i l
i, A (White) Our pinn is to use just a 3" bit with .
t I
15 ---
no pilcc hole. {
10 Q Is that what you've done circady in the plant
- 7 i . . .
in scte of the tests or have you done that?
10 A (Broehl) We've done, for the past year is a 19 ... .. ,
i great deal of drilling in the plant. A considerably amount 20 l j,.I cf it's been rsquired to install the additional nipe restraints.
21 '
and todificatien work _ around the plant: s rsquit.ed a con-j n
~1- . ,
ciderable amount of drilling, so it's --
23 }
.'m ! .Cl IIcles as big as 3"? i
/ t -
24 l' u
~
\ A (Broehl)- Some of them much larger than 3".
l
,e --- . .
Q. So you have quite a bit.cf experience at this' - l i
r i
.= n ..
i 1 . ?
I .
3945 t J
\ I point of drilling tlirough the kind of wa.11s that will be ,l 1 ;
. .. i< ,
2 drilled through in order to accomodate the modifications, t J 3 is that correct? -
.id;j 4 yA (Brochl) That's' correct.. It's really a M,aimfc.'
e 5 common or normal job activity at the plant. , l G
Q In your question'138, page 64, I was curious as 7 to how you determine conservativel'y'that all of the vertical .
G rdar in* columd line r, b$tNee[6elumn lines 41' and 46 to~
9l bedamagedbydri5. ling? How many rebar were assumed nicked?-
10 ! in celurn line r, betusen columns 41 and 46 when you made <
1 L .. .... . .. . t 11
{ this? Is thi: the worst case that y ou could figure?
I 9 12 ' A (bite) ' Yes, we assumed that every bar (V
13 had a nich in it.
14 i O UvchJ bah, clEah across?
I s . - _ .
15 ' A (Wnite) Yes. j-
~
15 O Did you pick this wall for any reacon to test I
17 - that er is this the worst?
10 A (TTnito) This is one of the walls where drilling te will be done. Pchhapsthewallwhersyousec'themost
- l. .
i 2)pheles,wallna'so.hasholacdrbledintoit,butIdon*k
. .l I think it's quite as much as wall r.
21 22 Q lihen you talk: about the fact that the cross-23 .section of any wr11 would not be reduced as much as'6 percent.
O s .-
Is,it a wall between columns and!
-k 2f [ Ecw do you figure that?
i 25- ficers? In'other words,.do'you take~a given' panel out and
= . . . . _ .
l l
3947.
r
.I say that th t panel will not be reduced' more ' than 6 2 percent?
~
3' A (White) The 6' percent is based on the walli -
4 going across an entire flocr level, so for the r wall,'it
' . 3 5 would be north through south. '
6 0 In essence, you could take out a whole panel o
7 1
because that's 1/16 of the total wall? '
v 5 A (iihite) Tahe out a given panel, it would'be !
e '
more like a third on ths r vall. There's only three panels.
c V !'
[C O Id inhe out a fourth of the' panel.
l
\ - .
11 i A (White) Parden'me?
~
12I Q I sny, 5'11 take oub a fourth of the panel, then.
- a. -
- 3 ;.; A- 0hite) Ch.
~
- .d j
Q I guess I'm curious as to what is the ma::imum ,
1 15 thatcouldbetaheEoutofonepanel. It doesn't -- well, i
13
- I'll ask the question another way. Does it make any dif-
- - ' ference to tha seismic capability of the building if it's ,
73 all takeet out of one panal versus distributed along the .
g panels?
20 A - (17hite) In terms of the overall capacity of i l 21 d th- .all, :he ve.y t 2 valls are tied together with the floor 1 i'.
22 f sicbc cnd this hind of thing, ~ cro panel essentially cannot ,
b '
t gj fcil all.b:t itself. It may.come up to its load limit,; but-p U -
, u. . then if'thare'is.more load to bei received by that total i l.
1.f1 or, if,chere' arc eths: ptnels which:are not up to its
. _z .
<j f
A5: l 4
e . , .
i t>
1 3948' 1 I capacity, these ot r panels will take the load. So, one l 1
2i panel cannot fail by itself, i
3 O All right. . !
l 4 A (17 nite) Now, if the panel were out in --
~
5 unrestrained or no$ associated with these other panels, then .
l
, 6 it could, but the displacements are being controlled by 7 that panel functioning as a part of the total structure. I C Q I think that that almost answers my question, 9 but I think -- wha 5'I was concerned about is, is there'a !
i l
10 difference 'oetween distributing.the holes betwean the panels 1 i
11 versus concentrating then all on one panel in terms of the
.s-6 12 r.eianic capability of that wall to sithstand an earthquake?
IS l .~ (White) If you.took -- I am trying to think j l -. ,
I A l* of some extremas here -- if we took all the. holes and -- l 15 3" holes -- and matched ther up on 3" centors, you know, so 15 the hoics are tangant, r.nd forgetting about' cutting'rebar, 17 let's assume that we did. net cut any rebar, there you'might '
u 10 be able to get into a case where it is important in terms !
19 cf distribution of the holes. If we concentrated them that 20 q'
bad, we would probably be wor:e off than what we have now, ,
i 21 but in termc of the actual distribution of the holes now [
22 versue spreading them out to a larger spacing, say, if you i t
i 22 want frem 2-1/2 foot'to a 5-fcot. spacing or something like j ..
s 24- that, tad had the sams number of holes-throughout the wall,:
!.l
~ 25 .it wouldn't.make much difference.- : !.
I' L
I ...
3 J
4 l
l 1
a 1
t 3949 j1
[
i i* i i Q All right. '
2 How, let me-go back'again now, and make sure I ,
~
I understand. L concern comes from the fact that I think I
t j .
4 i 6 percent sounds large, and I'm trying to get a feel for_it. i l .
5 Now, if you had a panel here, first you're not
~
6 going to go around the whole cross-section of the total wall' 7 for reducing it. Nd that 6 percent, though, of the total e wall at that level?
g A (White) Yes.
10 0 Is there really going to be that much concrete ;
'~
.; i taken out by c.rilli1$g holes at a .given level?
I -
(' 12 A (White) Well, if you get down to a -- say, the
,,i w
Q amount cf atterial 5 hat's removed, say, between holes. Okay, P -
- ,; jj we 've got a 2-1/2-foot spacing. That's some of the smaller o f it i 15 l{ spacing. We take out a 3" hole. So our 2-1/2-foot is what g ! 30"? Okay, co we've got 35", we've taken out 3", so that's i
- 7 fs j a 10 parcent loss if we just go on a hole-by-hole basis, j
I g {j -
But now, let's talk about the significance of !
p __ .. !
,o d tbc 6 cercent.
- fl If the capacity cf those walls were being ii .
cs O contrclied by either sliding or diagonal tension where the
"* h ~i 21 lli actuti volume cf concrete is imp 05tnat, then 6 porcent per se-i 9, ! But in actuaTity,
- y! may..be an interesting number tc leek at. .
U t.3 g the capacity of the walls are ' aing controlled by' Fletcher,
['"N '
,,,j,d; which is c function of the reinforcing susel, and we'rs not .
l.
g t ,,
c5 - doing anything to the reinforcing steel ir, essence. Ws vc .
5 l
1 i
l' -I l l= . }l H F li .
-~ .- . . . . - . . .. -. -
1
)
i: .a c., .r,0 ;
i .
- tade an esticate that if you double-barge, you lose 2 percent.
s j But in actual, prGtical application, we may nick a few bars, certainly not every bar in the wall. Soc .as I mentioned J.
, earlier, the significance of the 6 percent would only be 5
i pertant if the capacity of the walls uas being controlled
- n i
j; by diagonal tension er sliding or comething.where the volume 7n of ccacrete wac importe.nt.
e ,I i
'q Now r the place whero it 7.ny be important from
- 1 1 h, a theoretical point of hieu even under the Fletcher capacity -
i iden. .ic in the compression ::cne. >
4 I,
< = ,l 1 Now, if *ie wers pushing the concrete in the
- m. o, ...
i compression ::ene, now maybe a copule holes would be signifi- t 4e {u cant, but tha c.ctual concreta ctress is far-from the ultim:.to.
i 1--
'e
- Sor even ta. king cut ncterici in the compression zone through 15 ii .
I ii no.t.2 at:.e. ling in not r$cily-a problem. '
i te '
l, ri In our cscessment of the capacity, drilling the h .. ..
y hc .es as:..i.or . ccern t cause a nrob.em.
.t. .
w bl .
0, 0 In that same arsh en pattern of bolt holes, uhich i
~
if H f you cover en phpe. 66, questic:1 140. You corr.ent that, "More-
. cver the bal: hols's to be drilled will not ' traverse . the
- il C ;l -
i
- entire structura a.long any single cline." I tasuma that ;
q -
.n t-
,i .
!I ths entire stre.ctura msans the tote.1 buildtw; clear cross i e
i
.y n L p the:centrel building, s.nd indeed you2re not, baccuse vou're -
% e/ ' :i :
i )
% 4. ~ p.
l} cnly going te drill them -in this cns locatien. ,
- 75. d. .
h, , ;
- p{' [ ' ..
l
- t 1:
)
l g t, 3951 4 I I
(N l 1 h., That's the description of that then. l l' -
l 1 ,
2' O In terms of the actual modifications, will !.
I tape 3 0 Bachtel be the only contractor that'c working on the. modi- l I l 0 fications in the complex? I'm not referring to the fire ; i l
5 team, whatever we call that. Fire watch.
6 A (hnite) Firo watch patrol.
7 Q Fire watch patrol. That's the one that could D bc somebody besides Bechtel or otherwise, but for the con- t Og struction process? ,
o l
- l t io :
0 A (Brcehl) For the construction process, Sechtel l --
!? wil:. he the cc. tractor parforming the work on that Sullding.
[
t 12 Isow, th3y may have subcontractors under that. -
13 l
, O Eutthch'retheresponsibleprimecontractors, t
iA ] right. '
J
- 5 l i
A (Br:ahl) Right.
16 i O Wno, at this tims, hac studied the interim, I
- 7 onsite, technicc1c$pportcentarconcept? Is that Mr.
. 10 Nj; Ericksen? ~Are you the expert in that aren?
i i
19 ! A (Erichson) Yes. . .
2.0 O Can you tell us z. little bit about what would be l 1 f n
7,j f %pi 0 0 Ld. .#.c"; Oh 5 E i d. Of thi3, JAEt 'n'ill nOW h3 rSfGrref IC, e.
i n" i thit.h, ce the interin onsite technical support center, in j 23 - case of an amargency? ;
O n i u
i
' 4 n ths NUP5G-0579, which sets out the NRC's f V ' ' '
l
-{
t.
e s n..
ehcrt tcra lesscus locrne6, the results of their'studiec .,
i 4 t r 1- t
) '
i
, s 4
j .
. .I.
4
. . . \
I 3952 1- r of the incident at Thren Mile Island, they are requiring 2 ..
each plant to establish a technical support center.where 3
/ technic:1 perconnel, engineers, and people who can assist 4 .
the opsrating crew in analyzing an accident, the offects, S . .
)
and provide guidance to the operating personns1 would 2 6
be located in such an event. This location at Trojan'has ;
7 ' ~
been chosen due to its proximity to the control room. It i 0 -
does have a viewing window where the majority of the control ,
e
~
, roca operz. ting crea is in vicw of the personnel up there.
10 ;I e ':"aey will be establiching comunications and additiona.1 11l data-cathering equipmant so the people, technical i
12 ~
pacple, uho are tscigned for the technict.1 support in the 13 i' -
event of an c.ccident will have ac chair fingertips critical l 'a parameters,for their analysis.
1 '" i 1
0 I assums then it will be equipped with co=muni-
$ cations and possibly computer ability, but not with opers. ting o
t l *'
'h , ' input dirsctly to the nucisar rcact'cr or it: cyctenc, is that
~
D correct?
n
'" I, 4 v. (Erichsen) That's correct. It will be data p! collection equipn.snt and dispicy for the technical personnel !
"' il .
q te nze in cnaly::ing the situation and communication equip-
- e. h,
" l}i ment both for receiving additionni informttion and communicat - 1 u , \
- ~; P 8 i
l ing th ir recc m:ndations to the opersting personnel. There '
O:
I q
24 ji;! weeld be no operating controls.in the techni=al. support ,
,, l centCr. '
t i
.n
.y . . _ _ . . . _._. . _ .- _ , _ . . . _ . _ _ . _ _
l
! 3953 A- j l d Q I would asrume then that it is not critical on !
a very timaly basis for somsbody to need to get in or out, 3
that it can be at a more leisurely pace than if an operator 4
is ' required to react to an emergency?
5 A (Erickson) That is true. The requirements for :
3j .. ..
I the technical support and the shift technical advisor 7l i
' ~
require thosa persoEnel to be able to respond within about A
~l '
! . 10 minutes, recording to the NRd standards. !
I o
-4 C : guess in line with that there is a question-
~ I; that I had about how long will these temporary ladders l
be required during the modification to -- when- the - stairs O to0
' ' i; are ramoved Cae: the west side, ic it, of the r-line column, it 13 P d panc..? i' i
.O' L (Srcehl) We have two accesses to the viewing I
+
..c . ---
"[ .i gallory. Jae normal access is from the stairway inside the
't
. 1
,d 0 -- should as to the ecst Of the r-line wcl1. Thct's the i
i i l
' norr.L1 ac:ene.
- 1
~ 'I W ji G Yos, I understand that. And -- but how long will l
p* ! -- !
. the tcrt orcry ladders be used on the west side of that? !
- i
',' !l 1
h (3r.cehl) We will have that platform and sttirway ;
1 ---
1
,,i.,lrem:
~~ val frc= the tin.2 we prepara to instr.ll plate 7, that's
- wher ; hat face has got to be cleaned off. -- no, actually it 1 1 I' E3 j gear befors 'that frem plate 1. Wa're going to have to take i
/h ('-
g ,
s/ 2< 1M El) o f uhat down in order to lift plate 1, . so we've got to -- I 25 i Q LAll.right. So it's frcm the time the. -- the j' .s
i t
r
,d.
9 3954 ;
lf ~ -
i.
r .;
t
.e I
.3 s
ninimum.tims would be from the time that you 9 tart to lift ; r
'~
plate.1, until you have completely installed. plate 87 ,.
,r .
- $ A (Broehl) That' .s correct.
O What kind of 2. time period is that,'do you know'
,t ...
~U offhand?
- 1i A (Droehl) I will have to check the schedule 4
,f'
, specifically. It's a period of several months.
l ,
3f Q Yes, all right, that's fine.
[
' .l
, IIR. ERICHSCli: Dr. McCollcm, the prime access !
.U. : i
'O !! to the visitor's gcliery apparently is, and I would e::p2ct '
l'
.{
t 1 4 once the technic'al support center is implemented, is through i il 72 !! the control building . side of the wall. Not through the wall, a -
13 4 but on the control building side of the wall. .
h.
I 14 - QUESTIONS BY THE DOARD:
i '! - t i , ... ...
1.7 fj DY DE. McOOLLOM:
M Q I woul[assuEe that having been up there, that -l' i
e . _ . . ,i :
- iJ that uoald be the obvious one to be in. ~ ' '
i 19 ! Before we start this unik-through of the 1
't.
.l
, . 19 s.i instal".ctionofthepla5es, I'd like to know one more thing i l '
- M ;4 about the guide colunn.
l I
?1 !. Mould ycudescribe the cross-section of the guide
, }i.
) il . . . -. I; ;
l 22 j,L column to me? 8
[ d- . I-i 0 1 -
e 22 0. (I'hitc) '
l
(- n A-The crientation?-
~
lI i
,, 2t. '[ Q 'I want you'to taka a cross-section through it and I j
\ .
l
-n I ' den't. lino;"what a guide column.-is.
whr.t is t- -
.I,hnow- _-! q l i f
l
.]
)) ;
1 f
i r
l
- 3955 i
I
- 1. - that it's comathing that you have up against that thing, but ;
e I '-
what is it?
1 3 -A (VTnite) It's just a steel beam, wide, ' plairs . !
I 4 , section, and --
i li .
- 0 I O' U-cross section?
. I, . . . .
l
,, )
E 1 A (iThite) No, I.
) "
Q .-cross section. It's'nn I-beam then?
7 llI; O i,' A iWhite) Yes, I-beam.. And it's oriented with .
I i-e ' *he fit =ge parallel with the plate. If the plate was going ! l n
g . . .
10l t r c agti..s: the wids flange, it would be rubbing against U [1 the finngc. ,
h 12 q Q l' hat is the dir.cnsion of the I-baam?
O i-A ' hibe)
The cnos on the bottom are 8x18 -- I i G [i ,., __ . (.
i t. 0 in . tid yen describe te us what you mean by 3x18?:
O jj A (*hite; Yes. Let me get r.1y steel handbook h .i is ' ho:L . ;
il u
g 'j Oh,r . It's an 1-shaped beam, and'-- actually
~
16
. m. . i,t, the bcck I have herA has an 8x17. What that means is it li n weigh: 17 poundr per Scot, has a ncminal' depth of 0", and, l
20 !! in fact --
d .
h a
e,
. Q Thr_t :n..:na the web is 3"?
{
+: ..
j e , A Re, thin. vould be the depth. -
. .o, >
n .. ,
2- E O Th* d*F' ^?
( i' . . . .t
' The web would ba 20 A (Ehite) night. 8", that's from ..
4 '3 uj - cutui.k n'., outripa. Uhe. flange width ic 5-1/4". -
1 1 1
n.
t
. i e
h;'
I 3956:
O r i V I, Now, that's thc one in which location?
O u . . . .
A (IOlite) That's from 45 to 65, essentially. i 3 ,
/
O Ic'there any difference in the one -- that's in
- t. \ ..
j the upper level?
. 5 A (ITaite) . Same size.
f Q Okay, I think we're ready now. Are you, Dr. '
7j .
ITaite, going to be the one that walks us through this
,, , 1
- ., t y inste.11ation, or -- how do you wish to do this? l 9d
.', A (Waits) Could we have a short recess?-
!c !: .-
!,i CraIni!Ali. IIILLCR: - This is a good point fo:: a j
.j rocess. ;
r 12 0 . .
( ) DR. 't~dITE: Econuse I-think there's some other i ;
\ .I i 1
13 "!
! figttes that will be beneficial -- >
' t.
- i. CHAIR'iRIi MILLET.: Okcy. }.
3' ,
) .
DR. 'mITI: -- in order!to enplain a whole lot--- ! '
1
. . .. I
- DE. >ICCOLLOI1
- Lat me make sure, so that you !
i
" underctand the when we -- uhon you bring this descriptien I
s q' ' j'li into being herc, that I'd like to know or have you describe g 4
Sc
'~ , 1 p just how ycu go on to the A-frames, just ,
h0..' the. dolly .is- t
- ,, ;. . I
" j .cennectade the movem2nt of it, the'crientaticn of the plate, ,
- i1 i
- !'c.nd how'it's brongnt.over, and how the all'cf the interactions'j- .
. .. 39 1
" h. eccur us i.rce bring it into place.
"H!!
DE. iGIIT2: Ckcy. l O ,... ... .. .
( " p[l Chay.
.CIIAIR!'1.N KZ": LEE: De'11 ts.ke a short recess.j: ,
,, c ,
--q' [shcre recess.1
]
t .. 't i4
= I! -
.s . .c
t i
t,,i l'
3957 t!
h (O s
/
,, d H.
o 3
MR. AXFJAD:
For ourcozes of this presentation,
_l.
- il Dr. tinite will be referring to four drawings which are Il "e P.Y attached to Enhibit 25, -- tab S of Exhibit 25, but we have
'I extra copies, one-for the Board and one for each table, c
. ", 1 so that you don't haveto pull your book apart in order.to ,
l.
D.
F review that.
7l CEAIRWJ1 MILLER: All right,' fine.
ll --
" I: MR. AXELRAD: Those are drawings RSK-1 through il E !! 3 and t., from tab S of Exhibit 25.
d
,r I
q In additi.2n, in the course of the presentation, ther't I
q __
t* y is a figure 7 in :'icenste's a Exhibit 27 which shows the
.i 12 'l inch:1" ation oath which you may want to hcve in frcnt of I , i
- I you for a part of that.
1l ..
M f, -
CD.ILU6! MILLER: Figure 77 lI .
.. ,f.
17 i '
MR. A::E*.F ic :
Dr White will if.cntify each
, . . . . . r M i d cuing as he refera to it, but ct least this way you'll n .. ;
f l'
have -- .
p , t
. 15 d. .
DR. ISITE: I think in order to cut the whole I
d -- -- ;~ -
M { thin? inte prospectiva, befora ve get down to the little, ! !
,I
.i
'J ., ,, tin. d.a u.ils c3 actual plcte orientation and this kind'cf ,
' i~
is thing, i: vould'be beneficial to refer to figure 7, s.nd I :
l i
12 j gness Ezhibit 27. That's our tecti =cny. This gives an [
.,y .
. F.
15 !, isenstric -riau cf at ler.rt a schematic reprecintation of . :
t, ,
' i.i l ti.u, rath ' of all eight clates.- !
./'
.J a '!:
I think tha.stcted notice that plates 1-through 6.
- 25. ::
t o . . . .
[
. E. ,
5 .< j 8 6 1 a l
....) .
o . .
1
- Ps ..
e
+
/~N li;4 3958
.a
\.m~, :
iji will come in to the tr.rbine building from the we:rt, by way I. i j of trucks. They will ba lifted off and set onto the dollies i.
. 11 .
0 a aucy t..sey go.
. Now, til of thosc plate.s will be raised into
. 4 [I .- .
5 l position from below.
i'
. 5 i CLUPTR4 MI m R: FTnat is that? j
- i !
1 7- DR. WP.ITE: Well -- l
... I G . DR. McCOLLO!!: From elevation 457 I e
g . - .
9 ;! DR. iCIT'I: Right.
il J !!li Now, tbI cther two plates, 7 and 3, they t.il3
?
1; !
heplacedbyfirsttakinhthemuptoelevation93within n' n.
M bay and then brought down, so 7
[ d 5 will be
\ '
m f: . l l
l ji I l'. ' hL - e6 difS rantly than 1 throuegh G. Cne thr: ugh si.s:
n.
n p.: p wil.' be brought in Lt gra#e level and then will be raised i
,8
\
p, 'l intc resition from btdow. Seven and eight will be taken '
I. 1, 3,
, ;i p,
..-...,.....4....
c u - . . . .. o
.. e _4 . ,. u. . . . . . . . .. .,.
w.. ._.
_ 4 ..i. a 4 m.
.. .o m
, N s .x._.,.n
.- od t' u^ua.t
- 7l .
into positica.
~
- l. 6 I
13 ; .4 gain, in terms of geners.1 crientation, that's i
[ .. .. !.
w . < u..., w u.. _4., .,cea.
e , 1
_o n. !.! ,
Now, let:u e,c to more detciled handline and first i I
ei . I
\
u . '
_2 n, refer to o..n n .f .
- I cl i I '
. .2 ,. Cany, etcrting off with the figure in the upper P
.. i left-h.nd cornar oE tua drcwing. ; sc yr. , " Plant elevation
()u
[~s s t " ,
3,. ,; 45, One pintss will be brought in tr:0 atts.ch the curilic.ry l
~-
H
! hook Of the crnne to it then it's in the pocition there i I. *
-n
.1( I I I
- I
_ _C
i'
.f
,O t
3959
\ ,
1
- , callad 'citter line of rail.' It will be brought in by J, .
2l truck. The e.u::iliary hook will be attached to the plate .
l 3 at that location and then lifted vertically and set down 2 on the tuo dollies." There's two little rigs there that 5 --- I'm not quite sure --
. 6 DR. McCOLLOM: One of them is ciready rotated, 7 isn't that correct?
3 i DR. IGITE: Pardon?
l1 t B: DR. McCCLLOM: One of the -- oh, no, I see.
I 10 DR.;7EN53: So far, all we've dono is just picked 11 I, it un. off the truc$ and set it down, so now the o.lete is 1,*.l still oriented parallel to the rails. I l
l c DR. McCCLLOM: Okay. !
. I i
14 OR.IG h$: How, at that stage the -- before i t
. . . . i 15 i.
any revement stcrts, the pinte will ba bolted to the dolly. j
.m
.s h. Theza dollies 1: ave a castar-tvpe wheel so that thev can ,
t .
m'- :! roll in cny direction. After thev're -
attached, then they'll u
U.
,3 .{ be Oulled by a c00.salong parIllel to the rail, and then i i t . . .
.-; O start to . wing the plate so thct the plate nou will hacc..e I,;
_e n. 'i, n.:rs.llel to the :-util.
I In all of this movement, the ,
h g- j p tre on the plate is still
. reical - In all these nave-
\\
an il cents, the plate will clutya be vertical. -
a t,i
~~< :i Chay, so vou roll the dollies over to tha wcil j
A t ( ',1
~
i i
l t,v/ >. O. an5 at this peint the anniliar' hoch i,s not attached to i
n u i
': the pitte in this m;"smant, it's just rolling aleng cn the 33 l l . .
l l, i 1 ,
t l
} >
t i
1 l' ;
i 1
- t. .
l
- 1I i g cund by ecmaalongs, this kind of thing. f 2j .
Okay, eventually the dolliec will get over flush !
- ... j 3 I againct the wall, so they can't go any further. Now, } '
[. . ;
4 in order to show what happens to the guide columns in this j ,
I 5 operation, let's refer back to another figure', one we ,
6l talkce about earlier. This is figure N1 of -- what exhibi't ;
7 , is *his?
I 4
MR. ERICKSON: That's Exhibit 25-j.
0l i
3[ DR.Im[hE: ' Okay, that shows four guide columns (
' ,l . .
- 0 l nt elevt. tion 45. :
'h ,
now, as the dolly moves from its original position i
t .
11 h. over to a pcsition pcre.21e1 to the wall, at come location ,
p 3! there unese guide solumns will have to be swung vertically.
They'll be pivoting thout the beam at about an elevanica j p :i
- i 3 pd G5. They have hinges on them at that point. Now, they have e . j y; j zo tip the n things up to allou the plate to got in'under-tl j '
)
1 ,- !
- 7 it na**H ^*m. Nou, they only hcVe to rotste maybe 30 degrees l
ti t 1.e s 3 d kind of thin?. -
The end of the beans have to come up ab'out i,
- 1, i
g j, si:: feat, cf.:: cr seven feat. The tallest plate we'll be r
i n .
-)
] cenClin;' ciuh tht dolly is ci:: feet. Sor.e of them arz chcrter ! ;
4
.,.. . ,. So I htra to retate those beams un high enough so that the
,. I h i
!! .710p as: gat in undernsath tham.
n a . .
. I! Cur.y, we dri+.e the dclly in undernaath the heras, 3
v i; . ,
e: ana acw ca 7ttnen the chcin hoist. Now, the chain heist
.~-
i ,
i-4 I
.c., j tre attached Ct ClE.Vation 12s.
SC,' C11 the hardware Cnd i
' t, g
9, e_
o ; ,
v -
. - - .- - .- ~ . - . .- - . - . . - . - - . . . . . ._ _
P
- f e I
f 3951
- l!
- I- t b everything is d cpping down behind the, slab at 93, down 2 i. .
.a. behind the slab at 69, on down to the point where we can :
3[ '
attach the chain hoist and the slings to 'the plate while ,
'I . 4l .
it's on the dolly.
up DR. McCOLLOM: Would you describe more completely
~
a _ ,
the chain hoist all the way down the side?
7 -
DR. IEITE: Well, the chain hoist itself, the cr .. .
I: mechanism stays rigidly attached to the beam at elevation oO
~[ 125.- The only ching that really comss down is the hook.'
10 t 0 The hech .ust comes on cown'. '
11 l
- j DR. McCOLLOM
- Hook.on --
b 12 p!
- ME. ERICKSON
- These are illustrated on drawing g4 ... . !
RSK-1 that' in the same group.
14 -
h Dn. h3ITE: Yes, the drawing is about the middle -
is i; r
[r of ths page, ESK-1. It chcus fivs chain hoists up at the 16 l 4
- top, cnf. you can see the hecks.thers at elevation 33 attached 1
"' e i- to th!t particular plate. Theca will be 6:cpped all the n
,g f>
i way dot.T. tc attach to the plate 1.through six as they set lo !
thcre on the ground.
l ,
a DR. Mc00LLUh: Then actually, it's just the .! l c5
~'
n cingic, individna.1 5. nit that goes through the floor at '
"' c~'
sievetion -
c3, yes.
j!: '
25 t
~
DR. WHITE: Yes, uhr.t's the slab at E3, pcsnes-h ..
i-
,' - the sich.at 65. ,
. . [-
'# - 'di Okay.
DR. Mc00LLOM:
r . _ _ _ . . _ . .
t l ,
l- c,.
I I
r i i 34G2 !
4
\w .i I DR. WH* i TE: .Ohay? [
Okay, so that's the hardware that comes down, ,,!
. \ -- .
I
. 3 l nttaches to the pitte.once they get up close to the wall. I 4 okay, now you start activating the chain hoist. j
._. . . i 5 They'll chcrt lifting the plate. Of course you have to !
1 i
G untcch it from the dollies, start raising the plate on up,
- 7) c.nd the guide columns are still swung in the incline position. ,
t N
1 0l .
DR. McCOLLOM: And the plate is out from the {
- j. .. .. i
- 9) t wall zom3 little distance?
10 DR. WHITE: A little dictance. You can get it l __ . .
, ! within about a foot of the wall. :*ow -- once vou attach it !
i
. I'
- ' or dett:h it from the dolly, it uill be tag lines tied to l t
I is i it, co nou as the chain heist star raicing up on it, I
14 , it won't swing into the wcil. There will be people hanging l t
mj cnto it then will allow it to cuing gently and rest against 13 [ the wall.
4 i t'
77 Now, you vill take up on the chain hoist until l
ic ' the plato that is being lifted is raised about four feet or ll 4
10 until the botten of the plate being rcised is at the top l 20)oftho.staticutryplate,cndthisisthepintethatisshown i f
. ,, ; 7;;c. . .. : sa g j ; -
3.::::g y,eles in it, . Thn' ' ' " our -
u '
t i 22[ foot high etesi plcte.
f :
i i _ .
1 h Mce,. Le soon as the plate being lifted is able 22 j ,
t .. ..
~ .
v, te rest c:. thr.t pinto, ths opentien vill be teraporariiv. .
\ ' '
l hc1:ed tni now the guide columns will be swana- dcwn into ca }
! I i
I
.l -
t.
i f
L 7
o 11 4
3963 1 15 lI.
pocition and bolted to the curb at about eldvation 45.
Now, the bolting arrangement for'that is shown 3
on one of the figuEt$s here in our testimony. It's figure 4 9-a.
~
a There it shcws a cross-section of that four-foot
~
6 high plate, the cuEb, and there you can see a bolt going 7
through the lower end of the guids column.
9 DN. McCOLLOM: As an aside, how is that base S: . pictte put in there.
.i Ic thero anything unusur.1 abour. that?
s
?C H Cn. E ITE: Besa pir.te?
p .. .
DR. McCOLLOM:
11 ld _. .
The one thr.t has the slotted holo 4 in it?
(2 [ t=
q np IT2 TE:
'..t C;. thb f&iNfa.?t high plate?
- 4 ; D.% McCOLLOM:
41 Tes. .
p _
)3 T.,R. UEITE :
Nothing cpacial ab0ut the installction n- : of t.rc'.
1 g [1 OE. McCOLLOM: Why is it act handled like these
, c.
j.
i,i other 31Ltea is thert: h differen+ce there htt mnhes that N
. i t,
.. il reas .- Sic 7 g .
- o. i, y,0 !; Oh. 3 ~TE:
i i
r t., -.
t's going to handled ecuni.i.cIl.v. 3.
o the scr.a. e. plats: 1 thrcugh.f.
l
.o
- 9. . n.
V DR. a000LLOM: I guess I'll htyc to a.ah trother l 23 0 r;ioct::pa: nov. That XL-pt.d -- I
~
a
\ v s -
. DR. WITE: Tc 2. , si r .. .
.. i
- :- U !.
-e DE. McCOLLCM:
It renicins e cm.nentiv underneath 1' -
n u
I e i t
r
! 3954 i
./e t
1.
e I s.
i that plate, is that not correct?
i DR. hTITE: Yes, that's there all the time. 1 s .
DR. McCOLLUM: Okay, so this base plate that 4 . - - . .
. we're talking about hers is handled in the same way as I
5 we do one through si:r?
6
. ! DR. TEITE: Yes, sir.
i !
7 .. ..
Dh McCOLLCM: Yes, sir.
c . .
DR. WHITE: Okay, we've got the plate that's i
~
- c. -. ...
being raised now up setting on top of the four-focit high
!O il clate.
The guile coluc.nc now have been secured with a
(
T1lj bolt the.re at the base attaching it to the top of the curb.-
I
.,e un y rou, you rtart uith your chain hoist,.just lifting'the U i 13 fi
'; plats en up inte its fi:aal position.
le
. .: ., i
- y. Ne 7, o.lates 1 through 3 can be lifted into !
s.
n ._ .. .
i}
dinc1 pocition with the hitching that we just describoil, 7
t, gg . . . . . ............:.4... ..
1
- jus,t raice -15 cn up into osition an* no af.".itional opera- !
P l-y tionc are neuded. That will just slids on up the wall, ;
pj .
o' g !! between the W.11 nnd the guide columns. Now, when you get -- ;
il :
10~ if '
= ;4.
uR. McOOLLOM: Hou tall is the dolly that ycu 1
H -- .. ,
l{ cre bringing this in on?
p .
n - I 4
' , ' i j! E:1 ;7E*.*.TE: Ths load-bearing portion is quite j t
i, . ... ;
- v. a :
107. T.ne c.ol e ..c lihown in u..ne lower le:.-hanc corner or
' i 4 - <
- n. I t.
m e. d
{
~'
il n
RSK-2. i s_ . . ,,
N .
MR. EL 02.90H: It is c.lso illustrated on figure }
f
] 6 Ind attached te o b testinony. Testi:nony Enhibit No. 27. [
i
'I s;-
i;;- .
! ?
a 9
i
[s '
(
3965 1ijI ,
DR. WHITE: You can see the plates setting in 4 j - -
i there. It's got a big C-clang on the top that stabilices e
~
it.
The 1 cad-beari g surface is in the neighborhood of'12" 4
above the ground. '
5l l
, DR. McCOLLOM: I see now. Actually you don't
- i. ,
~ .H v i have to lift this over any part of the frame, it's setting
- on a slot.
G DR. WHITE: Right .
~a f,! -
DR. M 00LLOM: ifnen ~you icft it up just a few
- y. ,, .y , --
O incnes --
i s o!
j DR. h'HITE: Right.
['
N
,_ . ,3
"" !,I ii -- ..
DR. M000LLCM: -
ycu can clear the the dolly?
,_ i U
. .a -
- ( ,,
u.a, . ...u
. .. ,. ,h. : m g.ht .
m
"' ly - ,
l DR. McCOLLOM: All right. "
t
- '( - - .
t
"'R. WHITE: The only lifting this requires is !
. ,. ii .
- ll ju;;t tiac little, hit.
You Cun- have to lift it all U the >
. ' - l-p way Ove.r the whole thing.
~ o.
E' !
i DR. IiOCOLLOM:
I All right. I
.o
- !I :. ,
DR. UEITrr Ohcy, we've got it in, ve've pulled l i
,,.n -- -
p: plata. 1 th: cough ; up into position just with a single ' hitch -{ l
-* p ..
i j I,; on the chain hoist.
- p. %
" h On platec (., 5 D
and 6e however, the limited reach
~
('~
{ F 2 i'. of the chtin hoint requ[res rcelinging in order to pull thoce V '14 ;l! plater into fine... pacition. ,
li I
25 l'1 Ecu r
}
that's accenplished by lifting the plater e
t n
N i a i
. ife , ,_ _
, = - - .
t 3966'6i f%
w ,
i t
11I i
- up to the elevation of the first' slab in the turbine building,1 -
2 !
elevation 69, recting the plates on a temporary' support j
, ,1 a i i}
coming out from that elab while the slings are being reset. 3 dg DR. McCOLLOM: Now, that's brought up inside -- l
- -8; DR. TdITE: Right.
o . . . . .
DR. McCOLLOM: -- the wall? ;
e . i DR. WHITE: Right, up int.fi0.c and going back to
.es .,
y figuro 2-1, you will be cble to see there elevation 69 is 1
, c 3 I i
d indientid shere. There will be pictds 4, 5, and 6 will !' 1
- ", n . . . _ l a .
, be rcised up to thtt height -- l
.I .t . .
a 4 DR. McCOLLOM: And then swung out ..'Sct a little P
12p . . . . ...
j
~
ucy: from the wcil?
m h a p!
. 1 D4 WITE: No, there's a steel plate that will l 4
1 a . .
actually be bolted to the slab at elevation 69 which goes
. .r.,
lyl
,! hack underneath th:i plato, to it doesn't hcVe to be swung [
.c .. :
Iu .
- j q} cut. It's not really re:: ting on the sinb itself, but it's
{
h 4
r 1 1 supported by a stsal picte that's boltod to the ciab and '
l 4r sw 0,, :
i 1
!' inserted undernanth the pitte. j l
- 9 . .5. . l
. j Thv.re's a detti3 .of that show hers some place. N a.: n -- -- ;
- 9 hem en SZ-1. res if I can direct your-etten- ;
e 2.1 o - -
il tion to it. It*? in tha louer ri;ht-he.nd corner nee.: c !
1 1
i little tricngle with a "r" in it. Notice that that is slab +
., {,! .
,r t i. elecatirn u9, and ycu'll see z. plate and : bolt stiching-out 4,.- .
t N p;.
\ The.t'.5 the to the right, diroculy tbOve the wide fitnge. t 4,.w h, . . ;
[; te=porr.ry suppcc or the recc h>r tnis plate '[ r p _ . . . . . .
4 l
r '
- I
. - - -.- - . . _ . . . . - - - - - . . -- -. - . . - .. ...;- . - . . - . . . ~ . . -- . .~
=l 4
t'
. 3967
' I Vfnile the plate is resting, it's hsid by one 2' sling. The other ona is. released, chain hoisted, or reposi-s l
3 tioned, and the whole operation is going again, f
4 DR. McCOLLOM: I still haven't visualized yet ,
5 how you get by that little shelf. t c
3
. .DR. WHITE: At 697 '
DR. McOOLLOM: Yes.
B j Dn.1552: Well, while the plates 4, 5, and 6 0
9 are being raised, uhis temporary rest is not there. c r
10 It'c bcch out of the way. You rciso it on up to 69, now l
11 you inscrt your tenporary rent, bolt it in place, cnd come
- 12 down. t i
15 i Scw, unere's four hci t: on the p'nte -- threc _
c M: i a t: this location.' So,. b$cn ycu unsling it, there's plenty -
F 1,1 15 .i1 of holding capacity there.
I 16 h Okty, af::: the clings and chain hoists heve y ... ..
(
- 7 ;; Le
- n r2.:cu so that now w ctn ocntinue the lifting process, i
- h. .
is .
we just go ahsed and lift plates 4, 5, and 6 on up into ;
4 l -
p
's I portition s.nd they'll slide betwacn the usils and the l
a .
2c 'Ii guide cclunne -- ngnin, going hach to ths guide columns l'g -. _
F.; 4 in figure 2-1. '
q ,
H L2 !! Dn. McCOLLOM: The guide columns up.above sre' f n i y' - . . . . .... ;
,- 23 ; in p.'.aca frca the very first'? l O t- ! t j
~
2, DE. WHIT 2: 2ec, tharc is no rwinging out .c f I h .
.n . ll guide colura frce these or anythinc elsa.- Those tre h r
- . t
-p i I
- I t 41 i
I, '
. , _ ..?= ,i
It . ;
3968 i l,
ed moition forever.
n
. 4,
^
!,f Chay, let's go to plates 7 and 6, and-in order !.
- i. - ..
~
'l to see the lifting operations of those, let's refer to i
RSK-1.
. l
. .i . .
O V Ucu if you renember back in figure 7 where 1
h q
t' the path of plate 7 and d were shown going vertically up ,
a 8
' ;i to elevstion 93, and then over to tin wall, and than into 1
- d finc.1 pssition. Okay, in this upper left-hand diagran
- 1. .
b
- - aJ heert , reu're rble to ses the relative crientation of the
.. i
. d. .
[ httchwr.y through which these pictor will be lifted, and I'
the fir.a1 pocition over ad in=snt to wall r. i 81 I h -
+-
n.
t; The eastern edge of the hatch. cay is at column L
- 1 i line i L. Colur. liEc~ u is over en the far left-hand side,
.e 5 i t
- r. Littic hit abovo hcifway in tha sheat, okay?
il C il
- y. . . _ ,. . .v.o. .~ r a n~.-g 4.1.3 a. g.gu.
y 15 DR. G I"C: So the crane is going to reach down !
7, to r.lencien /.5, atttch to pluie 7, raise it vartically .and 'i I.
~
- b h then me- a it over te elevation 93. Now, there's a six-inch !
.F .
. 1:: , curb at slevation 92 --
4 10 jf OR. McCQLLCII: First, what is the si::s of the
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3969 l l
.. '. s i '
wide.
g.
1 DR..TEITZ: It's opon all the time.
i, .. ,
e i DR. Mc00LLo!!: I presume it's two bays in the i.
~
4 east-west direction and one bay.in the north-south direction f' on fig' ire 77 6 MR. ERICIISON: That's correct.
7 ,,
DP.. 4.cCOLLOM: All right. !
3 , Dn. I:2b2: .T.t's the full width of the train bay.
I d 4 f
iy D2. McOOLLOM: Izn far as my information is con-f{
l0 '. c Err.a d , a; icag ts it's two bevs wide, I don't have any t - :.
l !
i :. 1. *jrchleu.
s 1
?; b; .
IiR. 3ROCHL: ~t's big enough to past the generator .
,. 4 q . ..
II l; through. j
.l i ja t t.. DR. IE.~TE: Ch.7, sc We lift th.i.s plato up to !
__ . i g,!. .
elevation 93 -- -
E1 i
10 \, DR. McCOLLO1: .L.nd it's criented in cn east-wsst i
! . . . . i-3 --
d directi g? l q :
IC CR. IGi!TE: es,
. still in east-vest direction. l I i tp y And you heva to raine it up thout an 1" over the 6" curb ,l a i j
t; ct c.levation H, se we'll lift it up to 93.7, clatr the
(
1
- 9 curd. bring it ever until the pinte has clenred thn curb, -
J l m.... _: ... s........g,,u u
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.. . .. e... _.m. a.s. . .
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. 6
.i : ,-
DR. McCOLLOM: I'.nd that usuld ha bring:.ng it to i i
'! t
- 3. -
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. , 3,.- 1 i
.h
.a 9 DR. UEI'2E: Ho e still coinc in ' the scInn ecst-west
- - i..
9 9
I i.
L ji
!l . 3970
\~ j eccition.
e t ,
2 {! ,
DR. McCOLLOM: I know, but I moa.n you're moving --
L 3 you have a plate here and it's hanging over thing. Which l t, 4 curb do .vcu 9o over?
i -
Dn. Wd5dE: The east curb.
c1 i
,3 1 D2. McCOLLOM: All right, so you move it still l'
7 in the easter 1v direction? -
gj .
DR. WHITE: Right.
b DR. McCOLLO:D Ell right.
- o. t ,
,0
- l DE.THNhE: 5t'sstilllinedut in the east-west a
j v direction. i-11 -
1 t IJ Chey, you move it over so that the plate clears
,2 y b
,,e is 1 .
the 6" curb cnd th$n lo-$cr it down to about an inch above-i I
,,L the .ctual floor. Sc, we'll drop it doun about 6".
4 l
- , DR. McCOLLOM
- So 'rcu take it clear over the
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~~
l _ , . , - .., .. . . . . - i w w-
'i 13 i h,i
, c.s . m..
n w.. .n., .e.4 'ght .
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pa 4; But so ler all we'rs done is just lift it un -
8
- l 1 n .-
I 4 I
se that it clecrc the ccatern curb. It's going to follow I !
a t,l .
t o c:?r.ntir 11v. tha EE.rs. ::th E.s clarc Br the center line of
$.i
- a. -
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H ulate B.
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el 'I l i i DR. M000LLCM: Gh, I'::. corrv.
~ I '.tas clrsady i 21 .'I !
, y --
il 15 thin}-in'3 Olate P.
- ~
c.:. - a p C , , f'l LA f*
, DR. ICITE: : r ,. thic is just c littlo guy so fcr.
\ ,! . .. -
i r
4 LR. McCOLLOM: I understand.
. 25 OR.lN5hE: Okty, sc ne 'll raise it up, drop it n
~ -.
.i J
?
\
1 3971 il
- I,
-O 1 1 down after we clear the curb so that we're about an inch abovel l i l 2
i it, and then we'll just use the au::iliary crane hook, to ca.rry l -
3' it over to the eastern-most position of the auxiliary hook. .
4 DR. McCOLLOM: There isn't any,partiuclar distance l
^ '
l - 3 .above the floor that you're keeping this?
6 DR. TGITE: About an inch.
)
DR.McCOLLOk: About an inch. All the time that' t l I, . . .
O it's beitg coved?
n 9[ DR. IGIT3: Right.
1 10 : There's no wood cribbing er anything in here for I
i ._ .
11 i purpose! cf plate 7.
1 Q' 1P. { Okty, move that over to the limit of the au: ciliary V 13 i j .
hoch, Op.1 you can see that lino if you go to the upper i
i
- p. left-hr.t diegr c a.nd ses column lino 47 and follow that i 1
13 line down about an inch r.nd a hcif or so. You'll see center l 4:- I line of c.u:ilicry hook limit. So start at column line 47, .
, 1 jy which is Lt the very tiptop of the page, chout six in~chers' \
3 . .
- La it in, and t.nn acr.e down and you'll see the words, . " Center line .
I I
- t. .a. } an:: h:ch 1:"?.it. "
4 1'
w Sc, we'll bring the plate thtt far while it's i l
i I
- .I attachse. to C.1 au
- ili ry hoch.
'{
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.ici, with it in th t pocition, now we will lower !
-U '
i3 i the chain hois : and att h it to the pis.te. *Uow,'while we'rc l b '~
doing thnt the .hing will probably rotats so that now the
( s
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3,. " pir.ta is pc.ra .it 1 to the :-wall. Now, there will clso be
- 4& ar l
[ t 3972 ,
.1
/
) -
1 i
1 '
, tag line'Cctached, chain hoist will be tahan up so there 2
isn't any F. lack in those lines anynore, and then the aux hook 3 will be backed e.way from it. So, at that point, we're hold-4 ing the plato by the tag lines for stability and the chain i
5 hoist in ter:as of supporting the thing vertically. i
- 6 Now, we'll take up on the chain hoist a little )
~
7 bit and just walk h$e plate on over to the r-line, position-O that over the -bars and just ~ drop the thing - pardon the I h ter:..inclogy --
,n 10 i { Laughter.] i t '
i
.l i 11 ; DE. WIT.*?. : -- icwor the plate into pecition.
- l V) i 12}i CP.ay, that takes care of plate 7.
-t
.Plf.ta 0 --
13{ .. .
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DR. LicCOI,LM: Let me make one question here.
14 l!
6, . -
15 ij As I rcccll, ths -btrs are right at.the top of I y .. ..
16 ;! the 3 3 foot?
a p . #
1 ;; DR. I.TI?S: Ycs. j !
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i
. u i le p DR. McCOLLOM: Io that cs you lift it over, you 1 .._ ..
. Ir if don *t haveto raise it any? ,
E. I 20 ll.: OE. 13ITO: Ec do have to raire it up there, there'!
- 2) llc.6"curbthere. j
!l i !
n ,i DR, ScOOLLOM: Sin-inch curb? i a
n l'
3} Dn. IEIOL: Ei ht. ;
' ~
! . . j' s .e. s_ s' DL.-McCOLLOM: And the ::-bars are at the t0 . of f thy.t curh? '
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1:
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h.i, Il 3973 il
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' !! DR. hEITE: Right.
2- DR.McCbLLO : All right.
1 . .
3 DH. WEITE:
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- -__.-_--___-___-__-__________ _ ___ _ i. _ ____ _ __ _ __ __
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3974 i QUF5TIONS EY TEE DOARD:
4 2 ST DR. !!cCOLLO!!:
sue -1 3
+
tA (Whitel Let'me make a correction to the entrance
.a
- fis -).n 4 to the Z Bar Bat. To accommodat,a the bolting arrangsmant -u 5 there 'jou have to raise it up to the curb a.nd then in an' s additional 6". So we are 12" above the actual floor, but it 7 is.a little plate, and there is no problem.
a Q Yes. All right.
9 A (White) Okay. Plate 8, follows the sa=e vertical to path as far as unloading and coming to elevation 93. The
- lift ic made with the au
- iliary hooks and the plate is f - 12 crriented in the east-west direction.
k 13 now, before this plate is actually liftsd to 14 elevation 93, there is a lot of preparation work that has 15 j been done ac clovation.93 and this ic Shown en the diagram, s
l '.
or EJK 1 in the upper lefthand' corner.
15j
,J w paratery work is laying down the 6" planking
, - n ,
3 1 1 rtatorial, On top of that are placed channela and.cn that g '
l g channel c A Frame will travel. Further down towards the 20 Uc11 R y u notice thtt the channels are replaced by whitar q e
, steel pittes, and it is.Shic area that the picte trill begin .
i i g[ its rotatien frca about 15 degrees over to shout 30 degrees '
} {
l I and in thin arca the A Prs =c will.be sliding-or rolling, new,
.l not in a lineer fashion, but in cn. arc, so thtt is the recscn i .of going from the channels to the steci plates. So all of 3 p
. ;w!
g., _
,, - - - - = - - -
x l
1 l
t f% 3975 i' -
1 '
this preparatory work is donc prior to lifting Plate C up to 2 i elevation 93.
3 okay, How let us talk about the hardware that is 4 attached to it and the various plate orientations.
5 Plate 8 is raised up to elevation 93 still in i
G the east-want direction. The plate now is moved, raised 7 up to about en inch abcVe the curb, which is also about an a inch above the wood criving, icying down the 6" dock material 9 laying down on the ficor. Chay, the cent 2r of gravity or
. 10 the plate non is wJved eact, still the plate is :noved in the
. . . , . . . , tt eact-wect direction, until the center of graEity is just over O in the opening; the center of gravity of the plate is just over O the opening of the hatchway.
j3 At this point the A frame is
^
y attached to the plato. Ucw the attachment, there is a g couple of bolts at the top of the A frame and these are gg i shown on RSK 4. '
g; The wcy there A framar work, they come in palis and g they only fmnction as pairs. You ccnnot attach one and get g anything good out of it. -The reascn for that is that the d
gyn attcchment consists of bolta at the top that attaches g ! the top of the A frame to the steel and then it acrocs the I
>- n L bottcm these two A.framen are tied together with a tie
-- il n
o rod, a tension rod.
,g So you have got the toncion rod holding ,
f% % , n .
(
s
, the A frcr:.c together ct the tcp -- ct the bottem rather, and .h p-l-
45 if there uns not any bolts at all there, the A frame would 1
6 6
, -. .. _ . , -- ~. .
3..
W 3976
( jj fall togetherinnd pinch that plate so up there you have the 2 pinching effect'from the plates own weight along with the ~I 3 bolting arrangement, so you cannet attach one. A- frame by' -
F itself or get any good out of it, but you do need the; tie
.. 1 4- 1 s rod going across the bottom. So, now, this is the attachment 6 and the purpose of these A. frames is to provide stability-7 for the plate while thgy continue its path towards Column a Line R.
i 9 i Now while the plate is travelling with the A l 10 frames on it, the majority of the weight is supported by the
- . anniliary hook. Rem eber the A frame are for stability '
12 and not derescarily support the whole '*'eight, the entire 13 ucight, it has the capability, but the. majority of the weight y ic being supported by the auriliary hook.
1 g O Icu did cay it has the capability?
- g A (White) It does have the capability.
3 ., Okay, going br.ch to RSK 1, the A frame are' attached-
, g, and now the auniliary of the hook will move the plate and 1
g A frames to the east and at'this point the orientation'of l 20 the pinte is beginning to rotats slightly in the clockwise
- g. direction. You vill notice after the plate is. moved so that 2 i the western of the plate is a-few feet inside or pass the' l-
)
1 - ,,_' cpaning, you will notics the little arrow with a'line, are u
l v
'g
- chowing rema Octation of the plate. Ucu, ~I . chot 1d mention -
\
s5 7that tha. plate has moved.to the east until the center gravity y .
l .
'F I d
i i "i I N l i
'i 3977
/. -l 1 of that platec reaches, well, essentially it moves until the 2 A fremes are on the steel plates has gone off the channel.
{
1
, 3 While the A frame .is in the channels, the orientation of the i 4 plate-is still going from east to west. It moves.all the ]
. 1 5 way to the position where the A frames are now in the l
. s cteel plates before we start moving them. Okay? It still i
7 has the cu iliary hook on them. I o O Do the A frames have casters on the bottom?
A (White) Yes.
I 10 0 Co they can orient in the direction of the turning?
j) A White) Eight.
fm __
- g l
i Chay. After we get the A frame over on the stebl
\
- 3 ,
plates, now we start to rotate the plate a little bit.
t gh'l And new wa start positioning this plate to maneuver it around d
LI t t
the pipes c.djccent to the wall, near Column Line 47, a I l
little n rkh f 47, there is th: ce pipec, there the exhaust 16[ l l
, , ;. frem the diesel?
- l
' ' )l g] t .
MR. ERICKSOH: Yes. The two large ones are t
,g l, crhaust pipes for the 3 cuergency diosel and the small. pips ;
1 g ,Il is a vent from the diesel oil be .f
.t j g , ER. IGITI:: The vent ir betwssn the 2 big ones. 1
.l -
There is a 4th vertical ncmber there, that is northeast of
" i,i .
w
.3fj the northern erhc2:3. !
a (g ,, :; BY HR. McCOLLOM:
.% w n 11 i' O Whr.t is the pipe.in between the two? l
.25 E i i
!. 1 i ,
t,'
b o
. . - . . . . - - - . - - . . = - - . . .- - - -. - - . - . .-
,e 3978 1 A (White) Ghay. The pipe in between -- Okay. If 'i 2 you go the northsrn big pipe, you go over an additional' ;
i 3 -l' 3" to the north, there is a s=til B" pipe column. .j 4 Thct could probably be bettar seen on :tsK 3.
{
5 RSK 3 has less background material, and you perhaps could ;
s be able to see it a little better.
7 okay the small pipe that is northesat from the ;
s inrge pipa there, that is a 6" or a 8 pipe- column that is !
g! being placed ac a guide so es the other pipe bolts be not- :
io contacted with the plate, this is just of kind of a turning
[
- i point, you just turn it right around so you can get it behind.
12 all the existing pipes. l
, f
~
13 How, going back to RSE 1, it shows what the Icyer cuec to the actuti =nneuW.ning cf the plate around tha ;
- , h, ;
g f point uhere the canter of the gravity of the plate hac reache6 l
6 the eactern limit of the aux hoch.
g now, that is probably a-45 degree angle to the i original ecstward position of the plate. I said we
, g ].
)
4 l
- g maneuvered the plate as far as va can with the help of.the-gg suniliary hoch. Kow at this-point, we attach a plate support l
g structure iinich is on the northern edge of the pinte and l
.a
, you.can see where the dotted' lines, it has a big counter I weight, further to the 6ast. ? cm -- going to RSK 3, you g uould be able.to pg e in the picta support frame, it'ic in tha N l E @ @p -U k 3M - N ,
O e -
1
< 1
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- 6. .
a g '. 't - J
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F 3979 t-( l counter weight cut on the lefthand end of that on the richt '
2' hand end of that_you will cee a vertical member with several 3 bolts on it.
^ 1 That will be attached to the plate at this particula: : '
5 position. Okay? Along with that there is also an additional S piece of apparatus which attached to the southeast corner 7
which will eventually be the southern edge of this plate, 5 Uhich will allow it to roll along the wall parallel to the 9l R Wall.
10 , O In that where the end of the eventual southern end I
11 I of the plate reting at the tima you attach the plate support?
,O -
12 A 09.113) As it ctands right now, the plate is about 13 an !.nch off thu cribbing, which over at the southern end 14 we hcVe get chout a 7" gap between the concrete deck and the IF beto of the plate, te , O Where is the little attachment that you put there?
17 A (White) Hell let us sec. That is shown on RSn 3,
, ;3 lv1cwCC. Going back to the -- you better aae the orientation
- g j of that scrticular view, go bach up to the plan in the left I
2, hand upper corner, and you uill see section C drawn there, e,} add we ars vicuing new parallel to the R t?all. (
j i
7;h O Gn which drawing?
1 p A (tihits) Ch, I am sc rf. RSK 3.
s g
Ecw the Vien cc ic the cztra rolling apparatus 3 that in attached to the souther cige of this plate. If you.
sce, you can see what we are leching at there by going up to
m 3980-i j the plan view, in the upper lefthand corner. Uppar .i.efthand 7, corner looking et the left or the southern of the plate you ,
3 will see a C in a circlo. It is -- the C with a circle in 4 it is south of Colunn Line 47. Got it? Okay.
. 5 so, the view CC and DD is two different views of.
s th t rolling appartus. It ic essentially a set.of rollers 7 ct the bottom, vertidal me::tbers so that' you can. get a hold g of the plats, it is attached with four bcits. Okay?
-t O rec.
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t !
tU A (White) .ul right. Ecck to RSK 1. New et this it point the cttachcent to the plEte, we have cot a plate-
- g support] structure on what will eventcally be the northern end
- 3 of the planc. Still will have the A frame on it; still will he.ve the ac
- hoch on it e.nd that way we can attach the rolling-
,y )
1.y eschanist on the couthern edgc. i 1
{
g Fow, we will attach e. chaim hoist to the southern i i .
ecce to scprort the ucight there. What we are getting ready ! I t
.c w
to do is to tche tha sur.iliary hook and the A frame. But,
. p .,
I h
g ;! befcre we do that we will attach'e chain hoist to the 1 il 3.,,.
j zouthern end and then- ao will take off the A frame first 4'. :
t.! then .ne cu:: hcoh, new e'rerything is supported by the rolling ti 1 c- d c
.chtnica cnd the chrin hoist at the southern end and at the l l'
northern end we have the plate's support strm n:.re. i N.
i T C l; Now, wa will conuinue maneuvering lthe plate inte J
'j i ;
- y. j petition and ar.the new chcin hoist that are apparently. ~
4 L
L l-
~ .
0 It H
y 3901 .
- i- 1 unattached, when the piste gets close enough we will attach -'
2 those au the opportunity arisas, so the whole thing'19 3
maneuvered to and it gives it the wall and the pulling
~
4 mechanism is now a chain hoist attached to coihumn Line 41, 5
the thing is pulled over in that position and again, the 6
thing is being worked around through the southern edge
- 7 using the rolling mechanism as well as the plate support
~h 3
structure neu is if you take a look of the orientation of-that tha channel in which the plate' support structure is 9
(
10 l travellin,g is not perpendicular to Colucn Line R it is off n.
11 i Ct.a iE 5E.b?.t c.f an cngle.
Yeu have to allow the plate to 6,
12 be vorhed around behina M.r.s Tarts pip =::r; 6n the southern i ~
13 edge. Okay? Kow, as we get it ovar into that position, I 14 all the chains, slings, and chain' hoists, Vill be 1 '
i 15 l att:1::hed. Uow we cre in a position to redove the'ccmplete 53 sr/Jport structure and the rolling mechanisti on the. couthbrn -' -
l i
i g erd.
At this point the whola thing is being supported by the j _
gg cl.ain hoist. iiaareinapositionnowtolowertheplateinteb' 19 ftc final position.
i- 0 5 20 Uhy do not you procead with the lovartug of,the... j; ;
- j picte nou. Itake it complete. I
- Y n Ii A (White) Okay.
I A.:.ong the line shs 4 by 4 cribbing. F 'i I
n }, .of. course, will have b,een put into the proper position, EL on j 4
p
( g ,
(
tha Vet, text, 2" picca of wood on the ve: y top. OIsay. We have-T.
l ; get it, get. it all unloade? in that pocition -cad that takes ur i-2
) .:
i 1 m m
-i
'll 3982 (j)
/
1j .
back to Pie;ure 13 A in Exhibit 27. That chows a stack of 2 4 by 4 cribbing material and at this point it is just a 3 mctter of removing the 4 by 4's one at.a time. Prior to 4 that,'he t picte will be icwerod down to about an inch ab7ve
. 5 the stack.
c Q What is the ma::imum distan=e above that two inch
-7 thich wood'that you nould go with the plate. What_is the 3 cas:imun distance above the flor, above the curb and above g the 2 thich wood that thct Picto B will ever go?
- o A., &?hite) It i= noticed in'this drawing that the t b
. q 1, .
3; top 2" piece of wood, that top surface new, coincides with p~ the tcp of tho steel plate r it rests on top of the curb.
,O 13 ITO.en tha plcte is moved into that position, the ma::imum would i ., i be cn inch or somepicce near that.
15 Q And there fore you just move it over end it is g l} cn inch chave the ucod? i
,_ 37 A (White) Right. !!ou, you stcrt taking out the j ,
7g pieces. You take out e.n crange piece and therefore ju=t an s '
,gl inctcnt you have to apply each gap with 4 I guess, depending i
20 n uhnt it ic, and then this continuing procsos c'f pulling I
p out a siece of wood, lewering the plate, pulling out a piece l of weci, icwering the wood, so on dotm -tho' line until we get s
" ]i, g it dota to ths very bottes which goes bcch to the discussion '
f] ( g lq1 thct tre hadi ee.rlier.
9 I
, l 5 25 ; Q chcy. I think that did it.
j:
t' ..
3983 i
1 13. EP.ICKSOH: I would like to make one coire'ction 2 that Dr. White said. I am referriiig to RSK 1. The upper
~
'3- righthend corner of the picn elevatica at 93. You see the-1 4 diezel and ' exhaust pipes, the large pipes that which comd
. 5 up through the floor and the small pipe to the left or north 'I 5 of those pipss is the ventupipe and the circle that is shown j t between the two exhaust pipes is a 17." pipe 17hich would be '
Y a added during.this plate handling.,to help suppo.it the rolling 3l that the channel in which the rolling apparatus rolls'and 10 cleo provides lateral support to the plcte behind thsse ,
t 33 ' diccal erhcuss stachc.
g 3; OR. McCOLLOM: "There is a channel there then in n -
g 'd.ich that rolls. Is thtt just c piece of metEl there? !
<! l g, Ic it literaly a chnnnel iron if you will?
15 DR. .t;HITE: Yes. A channal iron with the ears up.
i 4
nU D3. IIcCOLLOII: Okay. I think that that'is very-I .
7 I helpful. ,
,j
- r. !
- r. , [ CHAIRIM MITJ2R: Dr. Pcxton?
kl
.c i.
QUESTIONINC 3Y TEE E0ARD BY DR. PAFTOM: 6 l
1 I i
1iyqusctionsarejustforclarifiaatio$
33 .;j .
Dn. PAZTOH:
a !
The first, I believe, will be addrassed to Pa. Anderson.
.v. . g!i .I.
1
, i Q .And_db.I under:tand that Ecchtal atcually hac
. .3.. !,g .
1 1 w, ,. )
conctructions cratas that can cor.e in cndo do work of this i 1
- l
.'i ' C l
\._ 24 i rart?
h A iAnderson)- Me trou.ld provide the super 7icion,- the l<
45 h
t '
i l
-.i !
.3
. 1 3984 O
( 1 engineers, theoorganization, and then we would bring in the 2' local crafts, the people who would actually do the construc- !
3 tion. 1 4 Q Sub-sontract it? ,
. 5 A (Andercon) They would be our people from the s i. Union Hall and cone sub-contractors. ,
7 Q I see. Throughout this Exhibit 27, there preceat-6 ione stated, precautions to be observed, and it is statsd s ,. with considerable confidence that thoce will be ovcerved and I
- ; I would apprc=ista it if you votild sure.arice your
- se. cons-ll t
i; for this ccafidence and this is independent of cay fire
/ 12 protection or for anything like that.
d 53 ,
A (Andercen) Yes, all of this work will be written 34 up in detailed work plans. The work plans will hava cach i
g }t item cutlined and have the nece:Cary places for signature i i
.i
,. 1n s nhet those plans hcvc been thought up carefully and ap roved .
il 1, :I, and the sup3rviscrs then, supervicing the, crafts, will use I
q those work plc.ns as n guide. We have ancorganisation that 1
9 has a quality control people that would be watching-that the !
-y
.: nork plc.ns be felicued, developing the - ork planc. We will J
to sure, before the work plans are anurovsde that.there were c plant concidsrad, all of the requirements that hnve been d
p
~
].,. developed in the course of devaleping this decign. Then l
C .. ?!
beyond thct the Scrtland Generc.1 Electric husociation u .:.
t l
j 1! -
g 'l Se involved it.0.pproving the work plans and Mr. arochi could : j l
f
' ol 3..
M _
l 11 \ 3985 '
! l
' f^
- \ \
1- MR.'BROEELai These. work plans after they are de-l 2 veloped by the construction group, will be reviewed for 1 3 performance with th'e good construction practice and all of 4 the .co- Mtments th(t we have made in the proceeding. Further
- . 5 they will be reviewed by a representative of the plant s staff to ensure that any of the activities or defind in that 7 area, are in conformance with the' plan operating procedures -l g and the cotivities that must ge on concurrently.
g Q Then in the course of these reviews, the 1
10[ what I refer to as the precautions, will be covered, at least 13 we should be certain that they will appear in these work I
,,.' plans; is that right?
l
,k
- I
( l
\ L A (Erochl) Thct is correct.
73 ' j g l, Q And we constitute proc 6dures that will be followed I l
t-la_ ! by supervision of the crafts in the actual modification work,'
,E the work planc. That is --
A (Broch1) They will follow those work planc.
17 i
,e s
O ~1o3. My question is juct cakes you confident that 1g the crafts sill indeed observe these precautions that appear h.
i I- in the work planc. t 20 pd l{ A (Andercon)
~'
h Yec. . Thesuperrisionthere,thepecplej
" teho are actnelly cupervising the t;ork, who were not crafts i l
y
- j people but are on thz staff, a permanent staff at the plant,- t f
( , , ,
a, 1,;
till be reopensible rupervising tha work going on. They will-
\
[ he responsible to all of'the work piens to m::ts sure that.the I q
y b I-w!
t i _ , , , . .
o
.I I
l l
(
( 3986 l s I crafts people 'doing the work are indeed following those l 2 picns.
3 Q The supervisors are then committed to following 4 thesd work plans. My reason for this question is that I have seen beautiful procedures that were layed aside and 1
5 '
6 not followed, but I gather that that will not be the situatio i 7 here?
~ )
l B A (Broehl) We take our procedures quite seriously. i
(
l 9 0 Ecu, severci pieces in these same exhibits there l
10 is refarence to Tchle 1 and these references cannot ba very
, .;7 much gcod, beenuse Table 1 is so vary extensive and let me
{ 12 point thase out and I would appreciate just knowirtg what to- i portions of Tchle 1 are referred to. The first thct I see g that I have noted it on Page 25 the ac.swer to Question 47 l
, o.
and exposurc of the been column connection, south of 16 column f 4G li vill he in the vacinity of an electrical -
ccbles. listed in Tchle 1. Well, my question is where is
. 16 i
i 3 A )Erickson) Maybe ws ccn help you to locate which 20 item in Table 1 are subject or in the vacinity of the g bocm column cennectic:. crposure. -I would refer you to tables I
,,, j 12-1, Shotch 13-l'which.is part of Table 1 cad 1B-2 which is '
, . , near the end.of that table, and clso 13-3.
1 C I l 4
Q With this can you point out the items Table 1-that- [ i
' i 1 are referred to? I i 25 A (Erickson) ' . Yes. {
Then.Icoking'at these sketches, we. j a __ . _ - _ _ _ _ -______--__----:_--------=-
- - = .- .- ._~ - .
1 I
l u
l l
3937 j can' identify Table for identifications. We are con to the a i !
2 . des i gneti ons which then, you can find in Table - in this 3 case it is Part B of Tchle 1.
4 Q I am sure that it is all here. It is just that thir
. 5 is a pretty complicated process. I do not knew where ve are 6 going to end up?
t 7 MR. NT - Mr. Erichson, perhaps you can point 8 cut for Dr. Paxton exactly which are the items referred to e at the bottom to Page 25 in the answr :o that question, 10 the electrical c 61e in the vacinity or Column 41 N 9j DR. Mc00LLCM: As I understand it let us sust take ,
12 the 46 H, Fr. Erichson, dat we just referred to.
13 We go to the upper right hand corner of the I'igure cr Ihatch 1B-1 of Table 1. I assume what you do is 34 1 k cround that vacinity and see if you can identify the 15 ,, .
16 nu=ber of the tables that are chown in those cable trays. l MR. ERICKSON: That is correct.
37 .
t gg New, particule.rly, 12-1 is very difficult to I )
- I \
read in thct aren. Sketch 13-1 in an e::ploded view of that gg l
\
~ 'l g
area c ecund this col =:an, so ycu can read yc=r cable tray I designctions, better. So, for example, you dan take n
.1 i
u, c 61e trey 3DA Gl~ and thun go into the tchis , find'c c le
~
t tray ISA 617 cnd that identif6es t/nat.-e.bles are in that tray.
.a ,
i
. . s F2. McOOLLOMt. "?culd you define BLA G17, now, for j l v -
j , uc?
25 i
e
.1
.1 1
N b, .
4 l
,!! -. 3980 r'
1ll
.i (Eridhson)' Chay. That 10 en Page 2.3 of 43 of :
i 2 Tc*ala 1. "o, then Cabis i t.t this point lists what tchics
.: or what the function in-this cable are and what eeni.e.mant 4 scrYo.
3 O Ckay. So, it is inherrantly a little work to get i ..
,3 g unis inzccr.c..a.on out. .
G
) 1, A { rickton) Yes. Dun ths esse.r.blodge of thare e n.'
t:bles W.s a littic ' cit of tr.'k.
4 . I.
. I.-
0 17all, 1ct un consider thct ancugh. I vill nr.st l
.I
,g 3 g . . ., . , .s..,...:...,
.. . - . . . ~ . . g ugn n u.s. . .". ".. e .#..."c.w. = .*. 4.. W w.T*. .'."."; ". .' M. e ' .
.i r
.. h si M hv. ner. c.uss.tian is crohably to Dr. White.
e.
e.. l p
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),y g 0 Fe.d I d.: not roccil seeing how --why--plate 0 he.ppenu
- i. + , .ts. ,3 .. ,.,.cb. t'.'.r . 'ha sw y 1 ' c. *.i . . . a.<.-h. . c..' c.t.es m+.- c a . =. ... s c.w..
1 t
il l i- n t.t:- the other platec r.re cc t-:tch cnaller than pl&te C. ,
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. . . . . . . .. .. . :...h ..,,.. . e.i L, .e g.t.f ....'.j... 4. ., .. .y , e .%. .e
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(~' l. 3989
'\ 1 to do.something toget around the cable trays that were there!
2 and in order fr f:i disconnecting the cable and putting it in 3 over the~cnd, had to fit the pieces together. So seven 4 just from an actuaf geometry of plate, bable tray and 5 everything, that is all we could do with that.
6 Ucw Plate S inorder to minimize the number of 7 lifts over the cable tray, in brimging things up from the 3 bottom was not a ronl' orobics, the only real probler was
.o. bringing stuff down from. above. What we wanted to do was n.
~
10 ;
do it juct onca cnd that is av w m;. i: ~~.y we had
- t one big P14.te 6. There tras no way that the overc11 design p ('- ;2 i was develcping, the rich frem a smaller plate was cimilar
( i as long ac it covarod the whole thing so .?.y run the rich 3
14 twica, do it on=c.
j 15
! O Thank you. Now, presumably, at some point the 5 f' ,
io whole pcttern in the wcil han to be transfer ed to the I 4".,
- cerrocyc62ing plate, and the plato drill, and where will h
thic drilling be done?
. 1.c !f i
i .
giL L. (White) Pardon IIe? )
V 1
C, ' O 21cte drilled. h.d :: cm tiondcring where the ;
.,., ij drilling will be done.
. . . I,
't Mell that will be done in the chop cnd as we 1
x n ,
,, .i were diccucsing earlier, there in about a three-stage oper- ;
a n. I, (G
! l w i atien in cetuti hole location.
u> The whcle location that 'l l
\ I l f' we have zhmm on the drcwinac of the plate itself or the i 25 ',' "
t l-I :
{
3990
/,~T
'd 1 general location. Now wo have si:cd thoce up from a i
2' praliminary loo;; and the overall constructural configu a tion,'
3 and we said okay, this lecks like ne can got those holes in 4 there. We put thosa on the paper, we took that information 5 out of the wall and we actually put marks on the wall as to 6 where the location shown on the drawings would actually 7 call for that hold and put to the wall.
S Ecu, once you get the marks on the wall, you will see s sete interference that was not easily detectable from 10 , Ico::.ing :* rom the drcwingc. So, now this will requira a 1
relocation of a few holes, so if you go to a drawing of C a plate chown in this infor=ction, come of those holes till i L 12 l
/ i have to be shif t:cd a couple of inchec to allow for the
- 3 ja washer to ha maised in the position in this kind of thing.
Kow, in addition to that, so that will.give us 15 j 13 li another sat of marks on the wall. In addition to that, wo i
17 will have to actually physically-drili those holes to see !
gg whether in fact we were able to avoid a reonforcing steel.
- g Now, undottbtedly, we are going to nick a bar and we are going ,
I te have to move it over n little bit. So, now this is the 20 y f.
n v i.
e= d third tima that we will hcVe to have pocitioned that hole, n ; We have not d-iven any holes in any plates at all, yot.
I .
-- 1 So, after we gst all the holes drilled in the !
e.o o i t
\\
\
v/
3 g, h
- i trall for z. particuls.r plate, that trill te=plet (?) for that 4
)
., e chip it off to the chop and say, oke.y, this is whnt we nesd.
" l I
1 1
.i :
,5
t I
s 3991 p
1 So thht is the~ way we will be able to mtch the plate holes:
2 in the plato and the wa'll reasonably well.
'3 Nov, we are also putting in a 2" bolt in a 3" hole-4 eo'this will give us ac=o latitude, that tolerance is.
. 5 uay beyond t(nat is needed, but when you are working with a s plate that sine, I mean one the hole.is there, that is it.
7 Q Fine. So the plates would still be there in the t
8 shop when the final hole pattern is transferred to them and g the drilling is done. Fine.
10 Ecu, my other questions are simply out of 1; ignorence. There is reference to fire retardant plastic and I was wondering what type of plastic has this property?
d{ 12 33 [.r a (ccoke) I belisve you are referring to the i y! welding blankets. The b1cnhet, itself, is a glasc fiber-(.
and it ic coded with a nco cream plastic, which it does have 15 16 flame retardant properties.
' i Q IIsos, neo cream plastic hcc that, thank you. l 97 l i M d,'I have seen many references to cad welding .{
10 in the ptst and some here. And I would appreciate having the 39
- )
g l prodscs deceribcd.
3)
A (Broehli Cad welding is a mannfacturcrc term for a pentented splice for a reenforcing bar. It is really : "
a mechanical splice and not a woven connection. The maner 2.: t . '
-l
'C .
24 1 'in which thic connection is made, there ic;a substantici
,, , ciced.sloeve which goes over r.hc tn ends of the reenforcing 45
-i ti
, , - - , + i
t . I t j 3992 (m
l i gs 1 bc: and the sleeve is centered on the joint. The bar.ende I l
2 are butted together and tho sleeve centered on it, there is
\
3 an outer pcrt of the cad weld casting process, particularly 4 the cwver, then placed over the sleeve.
. 5 The sleeve is connected through a'--it is a 6 carbon tuberation to a micubula (?) which ic mde' out 7 of carbon. The charge is placed in that cubula, with a e *= 11 netal dice at the base of the charge and this charge 9 is a standard ther= cide mix. The thorncide is ignited, and 11 of course, it fires off, the action is ve.m.f similar to 10 l 11 c very ca ll glass furnace and it creates a molten steel.
12 That metis the disc at the bottom of the nicubula (?) and it O (L 33 just -- when it is ready to go it just runs into the cleeve, I
l g fills the sleeve and the thermoide process having spent ! I 33 l itself, cools down removing the bicubula anddthe wrapper I
se
. and than you check to mho cc-tain the molten did run in 1.1 I surrounding- the reenforcing bar and fill the- -scaco. That 1 g consticutes the cz.d welding, j ;
, 1
- g 0 7nanh you. I did not realize that.it was actucily I
~
20 a thertoide process.
1 1 23
( 24
\
25
[ .. _
1:
f 11 billiecolburi p pagr 1 -j, 3993 i /+ - 1 ,0 - ,-
q' tape 5 s .
CHAIFhi HILLER: All right, that constitutes my '
m questions..
l.
4 fir. ERICESON: I have got a couple of corrections I.
e:
would like to make, if possible. Dr. McCollom, in answer to 6
your question en the technical support center, the requirement "
is to man that within one hour, rather than 10 minutes as I C
mentioned before. .
9 The shift technical adviser who is on site at all 1Clj.. timac gens to the centrol room itself.
li The confusion that 11 l came up in unsucrs frem the Staff regarding the well : shield,
[ 12 Clearmont W.Sl Shield, 500-24, that la correct; our testimony N
13 hus a typegraphical error.
14 11R. PAnTCS: On what page is that? j
- i. ,
11 15 '
P i
IG. ZRICKSON: Page 34 of our testimony. I I
'{ I ;
'GOa CHAIRtWi MILLER: That correction was made, was it l I
J t 17 : not, at the time, 800-24. !
n t-
. iG 'i fir. ERICKSOM: Yes, 19 r CD.IEMAN MILLER: I have a record chouing that we
. i: I J i ;
20 j did un e that correction. 6
[
I j 21-[ l 'J. , ERICKSCS: That can be confirmed in Attachment 9-1 !
i ]
22
- 4) to our response.to Syste;cs Eranch Question.9, dated-August 17,
' 15 '75. And that~is in hhibit.25-J. ,
{ (
s T.4 . P CFJ.IPlm'~ MILLER: Do you have anything further?
v Y 25 Is the Staff going to be ready.to put on your t
- t ,
3
- q. 4 .
Il n
n' j!! 3594 f
\ 1 testimony concerning the issues other thr.n structural adequacy?
~, NR. A1ELRAD:: Yes, Mr. Chairman 3
CHAIPM.N MILLER: Do you want a 10-minute recess
"; before you start?
f IG. ' GRAY : Yes.
6 egg:pgy; gynngg: .
g .ll take it now, a 10-minutes 7
rececs. We'will conclude Mr. Areirad and then we'll move to O
the Staff witnesces.
O' UTnereupon, a recess was taken.) ,
i 1C '
CHAIEIAM MILLER: Uas there something to conclude !
II the tactimeny of this panel, Mr. Ic:elrad?
,i 12 IG. AZELnt.D: Yes, Mr. Chairman, just ene additional 13 quection arising from c qucntien that Or. Pr.:: ton had asked.
14 !:r. Brochl, in rerponce to a question from Dr.
I 15 }; Pa::non, Mr. Ccoke referred .to the usa of plastic in pipe o
10 ;; protecting blanitats at the plant. Could you clah; crate on i
17 that answer, please? ,,
/
. 18 MR. 3Ror.HL: Yeu, in addition to the blankets, the
!? ,
fireprcofin.g of the weldinc, we will be using other plastic 20 ! cround in the aree.. This s'1 has a fire-retardant rating.
.~.
21 I ar: not ccrtain what the cher.ical conctituent is but, typicalir.
22 one of the brands we v.se is a product called AGriffoly.n 75) ,
i 22 lI and it he.s been cpproved by....
[m '
i 1
s
( 24j Ma. m:TOL - How do rou spell that?
l 2.7 MR. SROEEL: I believe it is.G-r-i-f-f-o-1-y-n.
'l
\
e ,. ._
l l
l l
l i
l (g 3995 i
v- ;
s 10. PAXTON: Thank you.
2 I MR. SROEEL: And in addition to that, the plugs we '
I i
will be using to seal the control room during the drilling f operation prior to the installing of the bolts, we will be
. 5 using a silicone rubber sealed material. This.is a foam q _
G cilicone which has been approved for our cable penetration
. 7 setls.
8 MR. arf 1 RAD: That would be used to plug the holas?
l O 1 '42 . ER0 EEL: Yes.
l.
10[ 112. N;2LPJ.D: Do you know whether the Griffolyn Plastic I
11 j is loaded, =r whether it is a simple, unloaded plastic?
( ( 12 I 1
MR. 3ROEHL: Pardon? I :didn't understand the questiod.
l 13 !!e HR. AKELR E: I was wondering whecher the Griffolyn, 14 that fire retardant plastic, is loaded with casething to help 15 the... well, help fir:prcof it, or whether it is a cimple 1Cj plastic. -
l' !
?7 !} 11R. BROEEL: I believe it is a simple plastic. It c .i
!3 is altoet opaque; it is a translucent white. And.juct from 13 jf the nature cf it, it could well ne loaded but I just don't t
'l ED ; know the chemical nabure of it. But it has self-extincuishing t n a l'
1 it lj proper)ies,'.7111 not stypert ::=nustion. e s
22' !!2.
BELL:. Thank you. i 25 CE.L.IRI'JZ MILLER: This te::= " cad-welding", is the
['
x
'~
z?
i "cEG" part of a.trada name, or does it-describe the property. j.
25 ,.! of scrething cicc? What can you tell me about it?
l 1
?
I'
] 3996 l;-
t
^h l b I MR. SROEHL: Cad-uciding is a trade name.
2 CIRILM1 MILLER: A t::ade name?
0 IIR. BROEHL: You see, the process of connectingi 4 re-bar in this method is a patented process. And that is the 5 trade name under which it is sold. It is quite common.in f
6 the construction industry and has been used to a subatantial 7 degree in the nuclear industry. We have many of them.
8 CHAIRi$1AN MILLER: You didn't describe the term but 9 I just wondered where the " cab" came frem.
t 10 L".R . DROEEL:
. Yes, that's the whole name: Cadweld.
11 ,
f CHAIEDZi MILLER: Thr.nk you. Anywr.y, I la'rned
(
\
12 what welding is.
\ '.Laughtar. )
13 14 CHAIRMP.5? MILLER: I tr.ke it the.n this concludes the I
i 13 j. panel's testir.dny?
j g h'l Kl. J.%EI2AD: It does.
i.
- 7 ER. 03rRir?rR
- Mr. Chairman, could you indulge us and , l g allow un to eek two :r.oro questions that crose out of Dr.
. ~
tg liccollom's c:: amination?
go , In response to Dr. McColicm's questions en plate n;! installatics en the sequence, could ycu refer to figure S-a -
22 l- in 2::hibit 27?
23 That figur2 shown a guide plate as.part of the
- g4 i energy absorbing rystem, and it ir also chown, I think, in
%) i 3, Exhibit 25, Section Jr figura 2.1. Whtt ic'the mass of this j 1
l ,
f !
I I
l i ,
l Y
.~ _ .
?'
{
3997
.p f N 1 guide plcte? 1 1
1 2
HR. UHIT2: The masc of the guide plate?
3}i .
MR. OSTRCDDR: Yes,.is that the guide column? I l 4 KR. iGITE: ' What do you mean by " guide plate"? Is
. c.
3 i
l this the three-inch thich ple.te?
6 11R. OSTRANDEREt's the cross-hatch thing on the middle I of the figure 9-a?
O Is it the plate that is vertical?' Or, 9' ic it the four-foot high plate or the three-inch...
1G !!R. WHITE: Four foot high plate.
11 I don't know hcu much it weighs but IE ; whatever, fcur fcot height, three foot thick and 30 feet long-
\ !.
13 1 gives you, that is whrt its mass is.
I I
i4 , liR. JJ: LRhD: Is that three inches thich?
t ,
in 1; MP. . Hi!ITE: Three inches thick, four feet high, fI 4 a(
- l iC reng:hly 20 feat long whatever that mass is. ,
17 l1l MR. CSTRANDERSo it is equi'Jalent to onc of the plates 'l t 1
i
. it .
that in being raised? j iSl, MR. iGITE: Ye'- +
. l' I t
20 MR. OSTRANDOR: If this plate were to be. dropped during 'I j 1 23 ,. installation, could it potentially damage the safety-related-1 J Z? I4- piping and~ cabling belen grado?
t i;
- r. '
, M2. Tr7HITE: No. #
y MR. OSTRA' DER: Why not? .j
%- i 33 MR. UHITE: Because drop height'ic 18 inches car and-4 6
r
.I 3998 I '
that is not a sufficient drop height in order to cause damage-2 to the pipes below.
3
, HR.OSTRANDER: The second question.. requires reference to i
4 drawing RSR-2. In the lower lefthand corner there is a
. 5 drawing of two dollies with a "see plans attached" at the 6 gep, 7 Mn. WHITE: Yes.
9
!m. osTPJJRQR: If the plates are not set. exactly. parallel ;
9 to the verticcl support of the dollies, the plate could. I t
10 rotate alightly during movement, resulting in possible loosen-11 ing of the C-clamps with with the tendency of the C-clamps to.-
I 12 fall off and the plate'to fall from the dollies.
I i
13 i Are you confident that vould not happen? <
i 14 I MR. i."dITS: Well, the gap at the bottom'is a fairly
/
i .-
15 ! snua fit. So the rotation v. hat you are talking about would i
13 , be very small. And'in terms of movement dislodging a' plat 3e i
17 plate of this cice due to vibration, that's just not' going to 18 happen. ,
i 13.f, IE. OETRANDER: Ecw large is-that gap at the bottom?
20 ff..'imITE: I don't see it drawn'on this drawing U , :but I would imagine.that the gap itself, once the~ plate 1is I i . .
s ,
22 i .
instclied,jrould be'in the vicinity of an e.ighth of'an inch.
i . .
23; ...MP, . OSTPMIDER. .
Is there any vay ycu could. check that?
M MR.. 2RICIISO" . Il think if_ you lookiat figure I6 attached . .
i 25 to.the testimony,;wnich was escentially.taken:off'of thisesame!
i
[$
l
~ . .- -
p -- -
t -- 7 >
3999
^
(
b/ I .'~%.- w RSK drawing / there is a block there or step that hold 5 the i bottcm of ths plate against the vertical member of the dolly. '
s And the clearance there is shown as three inches plus. That 4
is not going'to be plus five inches, or anything like that.
1
- "~- 5 It just denotes clearance for the plate
- to slip \ in.
7 MR. CSTRAHDER: There is no way the C-clamps cohld come U
loose if there was vibration o$ rotation in that column?
9 MR. WHITE: Well, if this was being moved by some. ,
4 l
10 inanimate cbject,that would be a poss'ibility. But there are 11 people around this all'the time. And any sort of movement will 12 he readily detected.
13 MR. OSTRAHDER: Is there a'more readily available or I
14 more positive centrol than a C-clamp that could be employed?
{ &
15 j .
g MR.UEITO: I.think if the plate fell over, it would I
!I # \
10 p not hurt an*/ thing anytay.
d, ,
17 MR. CSTRMIDER: I ouess that is not a response to my
, 13 qusation.
I 10 l MR. WHITE: I would think that the addition of the 1
1 20 1 administrative requirenent that after the thing is rolled 1 21 ,I Z-ntrSer of feet, you put a big vorkman on.the end of'the f
22 C-blamp and tighten it up again. Would that be sufficient?
l 23 liR. OSTRAIDZR: That is'what I am asking you.
b b 24 17.. WHITE: To ma, it is' fine the way it is.- 'I see g
w g 25 no.probiem.
l-I
! ll l 1 x ! 4000 f
'" 1 8 MP. . OST:i. EIDER: Tnat is all wo have, Mr. Chai223an.
2 CHAIMEN MILLER: TharJc you. You may be excused.
3 MS. LELL: Mr. Chairman, I have about two questions 4
that were raised with Dr. McCollom' a questions.
5 CHAIRMAM MILLER: What is the nature of your questions ?
6 Well, what I saw as somewhat of a dis-
, MS. EELL:
7 crepancy about the cmount of time that was going to be between C
installation of the first plate and the 3 plate, and I would 9 just like to cl'arify that.
10 C2AIPlaK MILLER: All right.
( . . ',t H ys, anLL:
\
')
{u 1,4 Q'
- . Un(cr' questioning this morning, it was said that it
,/ /
12 would tche four to six weshs; that would be enough ior the 14 concreI$ te harden to establir;h the proper friction. Then, a 15 little bit later thia torning, when asked how long a period 16 between installation of plate 1 and until af ter pla:e 8 would 17 i, be installed... this was in answer.to a questien about the i
f iC tenparary ladders, ac an access to the viewing galla: y. . . that 19 , it was raid several vaeks.
h 4
20 I guess I would furt like to clarify: Is that l
t 21 ti several weenc the sans four to sin weeks that was mentioned ti ~.
22 carlier nera?
s 23 A 'f!O. White)
. '*ou said several weeks for which now?
\
l 24 G rcr having the te .perary ladder access to the viewing sm; ,
23 9a11ary7 - .,
4 j %
r
.4 '
I
f d .
4001
/m s. a
~ s
() .' 1 MR. BROEHL: I believe that was my-response. I 2
/ believe I said several months. We checked that and that e ,
- ' paried in actually chout six to eight months between the i
s commencement of plate l' and the completion of. plate 8.
. 5
- MS. BELL: Also, I have a couple of other clarified G '
, quOstions...
7 CHAI?JfAN MILLER: Well, we are coinc to allow you 9 I
.I within range but let me. say this.
L You remember now from our e~g i
first chasc., we gave you full and ample opportunity to'the 10 !
J eramination, croac-axcninction, and the rest.
I The Board, as '
f 11 lVetoldyou,doesnotcross-examine.
s 11' . d n I,t interrogates upon the whole picture as made by-n" fl D then. tic 5.cn't necn by that the reopening of this business of .
1, :
ej i 1 -
' ' ll; going up with a baseball bat. Fiow we are going to exercise i P
1~
!'i! discretion, o w but,please--e.nd I am going to address this to all !
13 0 t councel. >
t 7Y On our next panel, get your questions in while it is
- e i
.,jyourturntoquesti:n.
t Let's not have a prolongation of
- I questioning as a recult of the questions then asked by the '
.s 20 t Sec.rd e.t the end.
.. , ..I
' ' f.
.I Kow we will give you five minutes, 'let's say, on this.,; ,
E L7 MS. BELL:
9**
"a .Q Ceuld you explLin from where the temporary support ic
( C , , l}
( ")
1 installed that is used to support the plate on elevcuion 697-MhIcan'tfigure~cutinwhat'directionitwouldbe.- *
- ll -
w
.i it ,
a
' U; ~
[{
7 0,
4 4002
/"SN I A'N, (Mr. Whits) Chay, the ' emporary support, or the rest n
while re-slinging, is this the one you are referring to?
'S -
Q Yes.
4 A Ohn;.', that is on RSK-1. And did you' find the loca-
. 5 tion uhere this plate is going to be installed directly above 6
the (uhite flanch) , near the little triangle with the G inside?
I 7 Q Yes.
3 A Got that one?
9 0 Yes, right.
10 A Okay, after the plate that is being raised into 11 position, either plate 4, 5 or 6--after the plate has been ;
[ 12
.i raised paassd elevation 69--the tsmporary plate will be put Lf ' dcun on the ficor, shoved out underneath the plate so the
.e
, 14 ' inp'new is brid ged, and this thing ic going to be bolted down.
15 ; This will allow the plate to be lowered down on to I
16 [ thic rest tonporarily while the re-clinging operation is done.-
l 17 h Thic is a tepporary support. And while it is not being used, 10 it will be bcek out of the way sameplace.
19 0 It i: slid underneath?
20 A Right. , 1
- 21. O Alac, the design of the eight plate, is that what 22 figure 2 in Licencec's E::hibit 27 is? i s
23' A Yes.
r :
, ; 24. Q. . PTr.ct are the ele
- rations of plate 8?
\
25 A It goes' essentially from 85, 3 on up.
.- . j
as ',',*
l i
i l l 4003- >
^\ \
11 1 Q okty, and then around'those blocks?
l
' A night. The heavy line at elevation about 91, 3 is 3 not a new piece of plate. That'is where a weld was made. But 4 those two top pieces are all one.
5 g ;.lso, are any. of these cranes that are being used ,
d 6 automatically run at all, or is this all manual?
7 A It is all (nanual).
8 Q Lastly, somebody in the Panel identified'the person i
S fres 3echtal who is sitting back here who periedically helps 1
10 the Fanel cut. I Uculd alco like to know why he isn't part of )
11 the Panel, since he ceams to have some of the answers.
/7 12 CHAIRS 1hN ICLLER: Ecw who are you asking that questiot T
V) u oI?
1 14 !1R. A':DLP_'.D : Objection.
15 CHAI?Ji?.N MILLER: I am going to sustain _the objection, 19 L so nahe your record.
17
{
MF. 33LL: I would like to know from Mr. Anderson
, 13 who that person is, and why he.isn't part of the Panel.
70 g. ER. A%ELnAD: Mr. Chai:. nan, I object - to that question.
j 20j CEAImiMI MILLER: Objection sustained.
1 (
\
21.> I_thinh_that is the end now of the interrogation of :
i 22 I this Panel. You are ercuced now, and thank you.
n 33 ' Is the Staff ready now to call their witnecs?
p +
t, 24 ER. C-RAY : Yoc, Mr. Chairman.
25 CHAIRMAN HILLEn: Call your witnesses,_then.
i t ,
[ '[' ,
f i
. b 4004
.; '2 l s ..
MR. GRAY: Prior to the calling of the first Staff.
2 vitness to the stand, I would lika to identify for the record
/ N, l
(,
, the Staff exhibits and documents that will be offered into j -
evidence. ;
5 The next Staff exhibit number in sequence is Staff a
Exhibit 12. Staff Exhibit 12 will consist of the document 7 entitled "The NRC Staff Testimony of Charles H. Tremel, III," -
0 .. identifying St:ff personnel sino prepared the safety evaluation t
3l ;
repert, and recpending to licencing beard question on proposed ,
10 l license con::niscion I
11f That docu=ent uns filed, copies of which were sent to 12 the Board and the pcrties on March 17, 1980.
12
- CFJ.IP;Gi MILL 2R: It till be so marked for identifica- ~i I .
14! tion.
15 GTnsreupon, Staff Exhibit.12 was I
15 r.arked for identification.)
i a :. AR. GR's.Y : The ncnt document I would designate as Staff l-
. 18 i Ixhibit 13-A. It ic the Safety Evaluation by the office of I
- 15. i Eq.clee.r Rccctor Regulation, relating to ccsign nodifications to M, the control building, Trojan Nuclear Plant. That document was 1
1 -
2: j. dated February 14, 1530. Copias of that also were served to i ..!
22 the- Board and parties en February 14, 1980 25]i CEJ.I.~CET MILLEP.: That is the Staff's SER. That will w.s
)' 24 h ba Ednitted into evidsnc3.
s
.i..n. , ,
t t
d- ;
u
~
e 1
J 4005
(~'h . !
\~- I
.(Whereupen, Staff Exhibit 13-A l
2 .
vas marked for identification and-3
.r -
admitted into evidence.)
4 MR. GRAY: The next document for identification will
. 5 he designated Staff Exhibit 13-B, and that is a letter from the 6
, NRC's Albert Swinser to Portland General Electric Company's 7 .
4 Mr. Goodwin, dated February 15, 1980; which transmitted errata I 8
l fcr correcticns to the Staff Safety Evaluatien Report. l 9
CHAIRMAN MILLER: It will be marked for identification.
10 .
l (Whereupon, Staff Exhibit 13-3 was marked for identification.)
~s 12 l MR. GRAZ: The next document for identification would I 13 he Staff Exhibit 14; that is a document entitled NRC Staff a
14 $
l Testim.cny of Fred Clanenson and James E. Knight regarding 1 ~r
.i mcdification verk and affects en plant operation and on safety 16 1 related equip.nent.
17 That testimony was filed and served on the Licensing 1c-Board and the parties to this proceeding on March 17, 1980.
19 CERIRMAU MILLCR: It will be marked for identification .
20 (Uhereupen, Staff Exhibit 14 was y i J
marked for identification.) ,
22 s ,
MR. GRAY: The next document is Staff Exhibit 15, 23 entitled NRO Sta,,ff,yectimony of Kenneth E. Earring and (Duke
./N (- E4
(
s_ /
) Persinho on Coalathen for Safe Pouer Contentionc 20,12 and 13
-"r and 1G. That document vts also filed and served en the parties
4006 r~'s ,.
- s
"... on liarch 17, 1980.
. - 1
, CHAIRMAN MILLER: It will be marked for identification.
3
, (Whereupon, Staff Exhibit 15 was
( -
4
, marked for identification.) ,
. 5 MR. GRAY: Staff Exhibit 16 for identification is 6
URC Staff Testimony of Charles M. Tremmel, III on Questions !
7 Regarding Relocation of the Railroad Spur and Reduction in 8
Size of the Equipment Hatch Under the Proposed Modifications. l 9
That documcat was filed and served on the parties and 10 the Board on March 17, 1980. i II CHAIRMAH MILLER: It will be marked for identification .
r
/"'% (_j 12
- (Whercupon, Enhibit (Staff) 16
() 13 was marked for identification.)
14 MR. GRAY: Next in Staff Exhibit 17 for identification .
1S lgl The document is entitled NRC Staff Testihegy of Kenneth S.
1G Eerring and D he Persinko on the Structural Adequncy of the 17 Propcssd Modifications to the Trojan Control Building. ,
16 That document was filed and served on the Board and l
!! h the parties on March 24, 1980. j 1
il s ;
20l CHAIPyJ.!: MILLER: That is Number 177 l
21 {l MR. GRAY: Staff Enhibit 17.
i El CHAIBID.N MILLER: It Will be marked 17 for identifica- j i
i
_ 23 tien.
I s
\
i)
[ Ze )i (Whereupon, Staff Exhibit 17.was-
\s / $
I'
- 25. marked for identification.)
-- h _
5 Il '
f 4007-L 1 .
.i 15 '
RR. GRAY: Finally, Staff Exhibit 18 is a document E
entitled . . . Nuclear Plant Concrete Masonary Wc11 Design Criteria for ... Loadings, Safety Evaluation Report.- This is -
uhat has been referred to as the wall problem,.SER.
. s i That doeuraent was distributed to the Board and the m~ '
parties on February 22, 1980. !
7 - 1 CET.IRMAN MILLERS Staff M ibit 18 will be admitted 't Gl into evidence. ;
p 9'
(Whersupon, Staff Exhibit'16 was I ,
to marked for identification and 1 y' ' ,.
ad:aitted into evidence.) !'
i
', 11 $
+l CEAIRMLN MILLER: Does that conclude your exhibits j s !, ;
U at this tima? )
14 I MR. GRAY: That will conclude the exhibits at this 1 -
i U] time. Mr. Cha.irman, I mighi report, as I indicated yesterday, l lt ,l the Staff is continuing its rariew of the various items of
.8'., j :
d in4orrz. tion provided by the Licensee on March 17th. We again k !'
. Mhreportthatwebelievethattwoadditienc1itzmshavebeen !
D l!.lre:olvcd, et least tc the Staff's satisfaction. l:
I,
",, 1 i i j These are the items uith regard to the ucrk ceyuence. i 1
~
CHAIRb*.N J MILLER: ITell, we would-like to have a I
" 9ltreport - let's cay this af ternoon of the resolved and ' unresolved. [l-23
,_ f So that ncy give you a chance to dictate that.into the record f -j M- towcrds the'end.of the afterncon's:sessien,'Mr. Gray.
1 a
23 j, ER., GRAY: All right, -
li p
l-i
- i. ' . ,
- h. l
g' ]
4008 Abf 1 j./ DR. ECCOLLOM: Mr. Gray, I know that I have not e 2 receiv_ed all of these, and you went through those so fast. Do 3
( ,
you have a list of them that I can check on these documents?
. 4
- 13. GRAY: I have a handwritten list right here 5
which I can give you. I do have copies of each of these 6
documents, which I will give to you. ,
7 DR. ZiCCOLLOM: If you could go at it this way: I 8
know I have received SER's, but beyond that, at this point, I 9
don't know if I can lay my hands on it, and I know I haven't 10 received about htif of ther..
- 1 If you could hand me a set, I will give you back
- 12 ea tnose that I don't have--that I find that I do have--that will be helpful.
14 HP. . GRAY: Certainly.
I 1": I i
i At this time, the staff will call Mr. Charles Trammel.
16 l Whereupen, l
CHARLES TPRGEL
- I6 was called as a staff witness and, having been duly sworn, was 19 I c::wnined and testifizd, as follows: l l
.O
' [' ,
l DIF.ECT EXAMINATION AI I~2 MR. GPX1:
I 22 l f 5
0 fir. Trar.mel, for the record, would you please state i ,
E3 1
/
n v
!your n:me and give a brief description of your. employment (s 24 ', dutier with the URC?
25 -
hy name in Charles M. Tr m el. . My position is.... I l'
l d -
.o
- N 4009 1
17 cm the prcject manager assigned to the Trojan Nuclear Plant.
2 My duties as Project Manager include the managing and review 3
of all activities associated with Trojan Nuclear Plant. I
'I 1 Q And what has been your involvement with regard. to the !
- l centrol building problem?
6 g 7.vc been the assigned project manager for the'duraticn 7
of the Trojan control building problem which commenced about j 0
April 25th or so, 1978.
S, O Do you have before you a document entitled HRC l t
IO N 5taff Testimony of Charles M. Trammel, III, identifying staff P,
11 personnel who prepcred' the cafety evaluation report in respond-
'gj '
.'/ingt:
i Licensing Socrd questicas on proposed licence conditions?
N/s !
13 It has been previcualy marked as Staff Enhibit 12.
14 A Yes, I do.
1 ff Q Did you prepare 'Jaat?
10 A Tes, I did.
l 17j O i? hat wr.c the purpose of that Staff Exhibit 12?
li
(
Uell, the first purpose is simply to identify the 18 l A l
1?
! authors of the various sections of the safety evaluation report t
20 for the information of everybody here.
21 The second purp;se is to address Dr. McColicm's
- 22 question, as I understand it, ac to why .there was an Oregon '
l l
,/ ~~
f- 21 Interrogs.tcry include, i.n the list of references provided by
.ss.
(v)/ 24 us in a. recommended license condition. .
l 25 Q Lo you have any additions or corrections to make to l
l-l l
i.
I
l 3
I -
fi
[N 8 4010
/ .;
\ '
, 'daic staff Exhibit 127 2
A Yes, I have two. On page 3, you will note that
.- 3l Section 4. 9 is missiIng.
I would like to in sequence on page 4 '
3 add. Se= tion 4'.9 and identify the author of that section, who is Dennis Kinsch, K-i-r-s-c-h, from Region V of the Office G
. of Inspection and Enforcement.
7 And on page 4,Section VIII is missing. I would-like to add Cection VIII between VII and 2%. The author is myself n
With the accistance of the. Environmental Specialists Branch t0 jl' and th Oost Denefit Oranch at NRC.
t
- ? hat completes corrections.
/q ; 12 i O F
And with those corrections is thie document true and 13 O correct to the best of your knowledge?
g# .
( A Yes, it is.
13
. Q Uers there any dissenting opinions er minority views ,
8' 0~
or opposing views with regard to thic staff Exhibit 12?
.17 A Thera are not, no.
18
. FS.. GRAY: Mr. Chairman, at this time, I would.like 1
19
. to offer this Staff Enhibit 12 into evidence, for receipt ito ^
E0 evidencc. i a !
2 i CilAI%IAU EILLER: All right, we till hold it subject
} ;
E2 d
' t crocs-ccamination. Your offer will be shown en the record i ;
I
~s 23 ('} 6.nd we vill male on it then. I
'( "
M lj
\_
,s Loes r.his conclude your examinction of tir. Trar.mel on t
25 i that subject? L 1
-l-0 I..I -
4011'
(N t ^9
\ l MR. GRAY: No, Mr. Chairman. At this time, we would 2 alco liha to address the matter of the Staff Safety Evaluation 3 Report.
\ e 4 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Very well.
5 SY MR. GRAY:
6 Q Hr. Tracr.el, do you have also before you the Staff 7 Exhibit 13-A for identification, which is the Staff Safety-6 Evaluation Report on che preposed modifications for the Trojan 9 control building?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q And what was ycui involvement in the preparation of f'~' ) 12 this cafety evaluation report?
\' .
13 A I uns project manager and it is my responsibility 'to 1/, have thsse safety evaluaticn reports issued, drawing on the 15 ;, assistanca, and roquesting acsistance when I need it, by 16 t
specialicts in other branches at NRC who prepared a substantial I
- 7 l part of this SER.
jg Q Would you bricfly describe what this SER Report is?
gg i A This is a safety evaluation of the Trojan control gy building modifications, addressing those structural aspects 2 of the modifications, and non-structural aspects of the modifi-gg cation, and our position as it was on February 14, 1980.
_ 23 0 Do you have any.cdditions or corrections-to make to
(
,C '
as chis doctstant?
e
\
- 7. . Yec, I do.- Starting uith page 28, there is a correctir 25
/.
.1
t i L
- f. 4012 s
'~ .'
20 1
, e' at the bottc= in the'last paragraph. The basic thrust of the 2
comment here is that the ladder does not go to the turbine
. 3 building roof.
4
~
So, in the second line of that paragraph, delete L
" turbine building roof" and "the". So the sentence would read S
"a ladder and steel platform leading to the crane cabin".
7 -
In the fourth line, the phrase "to the roof" should S,
s be deleted.
1 1
9hl And in the last line, delete the phrase "with regard l
10 to cccess to the turbine".
11 Continuing on page 29, continue the deletion by
(
\s -
i2 -
ileleting the word " building roof by operators or the fire 12 brigade".
In the next line, delete "all after purposes". And 14 thc f011c; ting line. ~
Put a period af[eb the word " purposes".
15 So the sentence would just rend " access to the crane cabin i
16 is not necessary for safety related purposes."
17
, on page 33, in the cecond paragraph, in the fourth to I
line of the second paragraph, delete the word " conservatively".
is
,i
!Alsointhatparagraph,fourthlinefromthebottcm,atthe 20 F cnd of the ss.ntence, delete "and rock foundati$n", and put a 2; p2riod nere. to the word " concrete".
I E2 On page 41, in the second par 5 graph, third line from g3 the bottem of that paragraph, delete the words " water tight s-(/)
v 24 and" so it should juct. read "are housed within dust-tight 33 enclosures". '
E
)
ti
^ 0
- 4013 f- a ,6
.i
'On page 48, on a paragraph numbered 5, at the end e ,
.. ""! cf the sentence, delete all after the word " rock". i
_i!
( '!! On page 51, delete Section 4.10, which is on page 51.
~I '
cnd page 52. It concludes on page 52. -
, Q Mr. Tramel, may I ask you why that is being deleted?
. l
.o ,
. A The reason for that is simply that'the workssequence 1.a changed so much since this was written that we don't believe ei
'l it vould serve any useful purpose. In fact, it may cause i
! confusion.
.. I m II
'" -l l
I&ving to page 55, we would like to delete the 15 ~ if second paragraph in its entirety.
Andthethirdparagraphib
] , e' ~ ' i its entirety. Continuing on to page 56, continue with.the-1
[
.o I
U( I deletion of ths entire first paragraph on page 56. That is, j
" ., not the bottou paragraph but the top. l
.. it. t ,i 3O i The reasen'for that, again, this is related to werk j
.. h. .
' ,# 'I
, sequence and it is being deleted for the same reason as in i l .
j{Saction4.10. '
p !
U IIi On page 57, at the top of the page, second line,;put
.,,1, ;
! cn acterich after the word "structura" and add a footnote at' i
. ., r. :
" y! the better. of the page, which would say: "The acceptibility l e ,
- c. o 1,cf the colic.: joint cheer ... was addressed in the " wall i
p
- probier." S2P.. " l '
!j -
I
" 1) The ne::t correcticr. is on page 66 in. the . fire cara-
,C\ -
~'-
d, . .
~
l
.L/ pgraph,ycewillesethe'wcrd" frame"inthefifth-line. I ,! -
4 i e H jj would line to delete that perica after--Jie werd1" frame" and 1-j ..
I 1
.i *
,,,. a ? '. .-
a ._ ________L___.-__1_
, O' 4014 I
/~' .
( -
insert the folloring words, or continue with the following z words: Cuoto, " locally at the intersection with the interior 4
walls." And continue with a new sentence:
"In addition, -
4# .
i
' due , to differing coefficients of thermal expansion' for steel '
4
~
j and ecnerete, c 50 degree F. mean wall tssperature increese 6
. , woulf result in a differential strain of 50 micro-inch per 7
inch, c=d a 25 degree F. mean wcil temparcture increase would.
o-result in a differentici strain of 25 micro-inch per inch, O
~
j,hethreducingwalldeadload."
d 10 on page 93, fourth line frem the bottom of the .s-
'l first paragra.._ph, deleto the words "in the event of an SSE", and s '
)
1 '"
!'incert in its place the phrase "for the factored OBE condition".
\s / P 13 t j 2: "- e a- Nre uculd new read in pcrt "which have capacity t
l'Of force ratios of the factcred OBE condition of less than one. " <
15 on page G6, I wculd like to delete Section 6.1.2 in
!its dOOirety.
't f
O And what la the reasen for that?
+
- M l
. J. The purpose fer that is there hcve been same substan-
)
<c <
ti:1 changes in $3:EW1c0 inspection since this was written.
, And n
'I 1 wc vill addrecs this in str :turtl' testimony uhen we finish r.
?
EF }} cur revicu of the incervice inspection, which I think will be e
n,
-- h'a r'ecolved very shertly, b
.., o' 4 On page S8, in the paragraph G.2.2, there is a list H
's (.
-- 'i b [go f referencec there which was correct ac of February 13ch, but
~
4 25' ll there htve 'been a number of submittals frem the Licensee .cince D.
- 6. ,
Ii .
1 P
n
-l l
l 1
4015 j Q -
1 C . that time. So efter the date February 13th, which appears the t
P F. l fif th line frem the bottr:, I would like to continue with i refarences just to bring that up to date. !
i 4 .
So.after February 13,1980, I would and February 21, 3
. tiarch 5, March 6, March 17, March 20, March 21 and March 27, 1980. And, in addition, _ uould like to add "PGE testimony i
,' ?
on March 17, 1980".
S I
On page 89, paragraph i, second line from the bottem !
e
~ I
- in paragraph 1, after " elevation 65 feet" and the com a, I ;
i 10 !
' would in:crt the phrcse "or due to r.cdification work itself,".
11 On page DOI would like to add " License S" a new :
1 ~5 l license condition which wculd read as follows:
i "S. Should *
!a drop of pictac 7 o,: 0 occur on to plates below, thd Licenses ;
" l
{ shall raport the circum:tances to NRC imediately.
Plates
'7 l 1 thrcugh 6 Oball be removed.' c.nd d:nage inspe= tion made unless t
ac
" ij
' it c= 52 : htt:nti:.t:0 t: th: ::.tir.fr.ctica of tha c.c st:ff i
13 '
that plate rer. oval is unnecessa.m.f."
' - te* 1 On page 93, the_ final correction is fourth line from '
6
, ti;e top of the page. Delete the sentence which starts " Rock 20 cnd other r.atsrials. . . " Thtt's four lines. So just delete that santence. ,
1 1
22 In cddition to these corrections, there were- !
", p correcticnc, of course, published on Feb: nary 15th in a letter C G 24
( 1 -which is dated ts that and ' identified ac Exhibit 13-3, and 25 I.
'I those correction: should'alco be made to this SER.. I'hadn't I .i n i
p I 4016 ;
-N 1 i it repeated them here.
2 I offer those corrections.
3 CHAI1MLE MILLER: Fine. I think we will take our lunch recess at this time and return et 1:30, please.
' - ifnereupon,-at 12:10 p.m., a-luncheon recess was
., e' taken, the hearing to reCOUVenG On the Se&e day at 1:30 p.m.)
1 D
?i ;
<n ti 11 -
1 .
- O "i 13 ii, 14 '
l' 15 '-
f i
4 16 i i
'. 7I l I-18
- i-19 j. !
. i 00 i -
1! -
G 21 !I II ' Y'
( .
Y ea 1, f
ij b 4 ht
,;- i gil 4
- f- - , .
4
. 1, 4017 l s 'pl -
-~ e, V . . .
1: AFTEPSOON ' S2SSICU 2 CHAIRIM MILLER: We will resume the hearing, please.
3 Mr. Tramell is on the witness' stand, and I think, A Mr. Grty, you had sens questions of him.
5 MR. GP3.Y : _ Yes, Mr. Chairman.
t G II SY MR. GRANs
\
. p; l
7 [' 0 Mr. Tramell, again with regard to Staff EY.hibit.
- 8 A, the Safoty Report, and as corrected with Staff Exhibit i !
3 oh13-3, the safety Evaluation Report, to your knowledge, are 11 10 I thcrs any dissenting opinions, minority views, conflicting j t!
i 11 ;
e ,
with what is set forth in the safety evaluation report? I 12 ;- 2 No, there are not. i 1:
13 [' MR. GEAY: At. ths.1 time, Mr..Chr.irman, Iwould like 11 i to offer into evidence thcee two exhibits, Staff Er.hibit 13-A i
$ fan 6. 13-E.
i They will be, of courca, sub-lect to being supported '
9, l bv. tiu. ac. c. ron. ritto .;itnesses ac identified by Mr. Trsamell.
I! $
g j!d CHAIR!EN MILLER: Let's see, 13-A is the SER?
r if i
- MR. GRAY: Yec. '
10 ;l -
- . . I tr y
,, CHAUML MILLZR: That has already been admitted-into
_t 20javidence. Whr.t was 13-37 s I+s ,
p: it IG. GPJ.Y: Exhibit 13-2 is the letter from Albert t
n 1
e..
itswinc.ar to Mr. Goodwin of ?GE 'sendine arrate corrections to u
t' hhe Scf ety Ovcitation ' Re >0rt.
.e
( . e. ,e
.y?
C:IAIE:7.U !".ILLIE: Mat was the date of that? .
That was Februa.ry 15, 1920.
L= ,'l; HR.-lGRAr: ,
s
'}I .
il fh 1-
'l .
, 't
_ ~_ ,
i 4018
! l
/ d-t I
V'j 1 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Are there any objections?
2 i
.No
( response).
I 3 CHAIRMAN MILLER:
With no obfection, it may be 4
admitted.,
(Whereupon, Staff Exhibit 13-B 6
was admitted into evidence.)
7 BY ER. GRAY:
6 Q Mr. Tramnell, moving on to actually Staff Exhibit 12 e
in which you eddress the licensing board question with regard 10 '
c
'o license conditions, I uculd ask you if you were present 11 here yesterday when Mr. A:telrad discussed the Licensee's O) suggestion.to suggested changes.as to license conditions as 13 proposed by the Staff.
14 A Yes, I was present.
15
, O And have you read the portions of Licensee E::hibit 27
'6 in which those suggested changes to license conditions have I
j.'been set forth?
, A Yes.
to" Q Hr. Trnm ell, I would ask that you now set forth the i 9
Staff's po:ition on the Licensee's suggestions for license I ~'
condition changes. j i
"m, 1 I
!! A Well, the first suggestin that the Licensee had . l u
n .- !
-~
} cppears en page 06 of. the non-structurci testimony of the O N~ .
{'
ls '"'I. Licensee concerning the license conf.ition on when the modifica-(
I5 l tica should bc completsf., and suggesting that the Dirsctor of 1
. i t
. . (
4019 ,
.m 1
( , L C '
h.,NRRputforgoedcausebeyondtheLicensee'ccontrol,entend t
the date of cenpletion.
- e Ue have no objection to that suggestion.
4 The cecond concern was Item 6. 2.2-B in our Safety e,
~
Evaluation Report; License Conditicn 3 otated that the plant 6
should be in cold shutdeun frem the time the. plate 8 is lifted 7
e iuntil it is est in placa and all bolts made snug; and testing n
~ I diesel generater A prior 'to that evolution.
~[ Uith respect to Licencee's cuggestion that the plant
.a
,i i.be in cold shutdoun for a leeser neriod, we do not agree with 4
that license condition or suggestion and we would hold with
\
] what we have: thr.t the plc.nt cheuld ba in full shutdoun from
.the tinc plats e ia lifted until it is set in place and all
~ I bolts are mtia snug.
I.
e,
s i Licanese also had a suggestien en conditien 6.2 of I
w.
Fpart. graph G.2.2-D. This ic c very minor clarification, that the i
.- I fire actch patrol need not be restricted to only the ecmplex.
fp l,!It unan't cur incention.
t ~e ! l i'
Jc If thav have a fire watch natrol who is ostrolin>
4 1
no a ;
ei d other crasc we hava no chjection to that. They do not have I i
h
^,
. l F o be sclely restricted to t' ea conplan. Our intent ia to have i, {
-e i
-- i !
!c fire w;tch pntrol inspecting thsre areas each hour. And i
. i i
"- t 1
. l thic is cet so we have no objecticn to that. ;
-s f . -i ,
l\ '~ '" l On page E S of the SER suggssted license conditica i, I I
Nj
-- c
' cne p.:.:nt... concerr.ing the plant chutdoun vhen open walls i#
li e
M l l'
d,
1 I
u, i
4020
/
at .
s
- Y
' !! e:cict, or when equipment is vulnerable to missiles either 1
-2 inside or.outside, I guess we agree in concept that suitable 3s protective measures can be implemented. And we would e
conditionally agree with that, subject, hewever, to our 5
acceptance, final acceptance, of what " suitable" means.
. But we agree in concept that such protection can be 7
. invited. And we heard testimony fran the Licensee yesterday 0
on what he believes at this time will do the job. So, a 9
!conditiont.1 r;reenent with the Licensee cn that.
The le.st license condition that Licensee ccmmented on was en thi: Ccndition R on page 90 of the Staff Safety p' I Evaluation Report. i?c laid out a ... test program there and
\
C Licensee is suggesting that it was recc=.tendeE that they do M
that or a tact uhich would ... the ccnditions pnder which -
l 15 (rehar) wculd be grounded. And we have no objection'to that; N we would agrea with that.
" ,t The final thing which cover: the license conditions n
,- t which Licensea conmented on, and our centents en those, the IS U finni arca woul6. be the proposed technical specifications which
'n e
, they laid cut in their testimony en pages 89 to F0. That '
i 21 !' it:m is ctill in discussion bee.tesn Licensee and the Staff.
H o
E !! I think we have reached substantial resolution of H
23'f: l hat,. tad ic does not what is hars. Whereas, I think we have h
.4 1
\m -) E4 [Ijust abcut ff.nalized our agreenent On it, that is net what's L5 hers. -
t
.c
i I l
-l 4021 ,
. i I
29 .
i-
, 1 3 So I guess that completes our ccmments. .!
t g MR. GRA~l: I have no further questions for Mr.
3 Trammell.
11 a 4 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Does the State of Oregon deside
. 5 to cross examine?
6 CROSS-EXAMINATION !
i'
' SY MR. OSTRANDER: i i
g Q Mr. Trammell, vould you refer to page 87 of the ,
Staff SER?
9
- g A Yes.
i gi O Actually, en page 88 under paragraph 6.2.2, sub-B,.
I I
g y the condition concerning shutdo#n of the plant for an o
4 t
- 4. ".
)
installation of plate 8, what is your dsfinition of "all bolts"?' 1
\:
\
)4 A All bolts? All bolts that are planned to be put in b
Plats 8, two bolts.
Lm. l to i Q You don't agree with the Licensee's suggestion it I I.. :i would be five bolts?
.I g A Ho.
gg Q What i: your definition of "made snug"?
- h t "
a ,.
.. A Well, 'made snug" means the nut has been tightened )
i I
t
-. 11P at least by the hand or tool of the men to make it tight, i
]nothingmorepreciaethanthat. :
O Thani-: ycu. If you could refer to page 29, actually_.
~
s (- ,3 t,)
che botten of :. age' 80 and beginning of page DS, the cenditions .I -
4
,_ 'concerning fire actch.' That is condition sub-D.
ua
'I I- ,
1
.i i
I
- l
'{ -
4022 1
N O I
1 Yesterday, I'r. Broehl testified that the fire watch 2 1 patrol uculd conduct a fairly detailed examination of the 3 csble spreading room.
4 Do you believe that a sentence should be added to 5
the license condition which states that:- There will be 6
hourly inspections to insure that no fires e::ist by direct 7
visual observation of all ecmbustible materials in the safety S related areas? Or something to that effect?
9 A I don't see nnf harm in it. I think the duties of i
10 a fire watch patrol are set out in the fire protection plan, ;
11 but I would cartair.ly have no cbjection to that. ':t simply.
G' will make that even clearer.
e .
13 The ap: roved fire protection plan for Trojan, thoughe .
i4 defines what a fire watch patrol is. I think Iwould say this 13 is unnecescary.
is 0 I wts c': cut to ach what other assurcnces e::ist that 1-
] the fire watch patrol will be done correctly in the abcence ,
4 isj of such a condition? I s '
I 19 A I thiik I ancuered that question. In addition, a j
29 :l fide watch pat :1 is not all we are-relying on here. u ntion l l? .
j 21 hac not been .ade of it but in mest areas of the p.t. ant, i 1
22 ;ii n'cluding th! cable spreadingrocm, there is autor.atic fire "
- s .
22 !!zuppreccien. There is fire protection equipment.
_ b pl - (m t
4.; -
b.
2.:.i it is not as if the'plcnt is unprctected by its '
\g l
..: !.!ne:me.1 fire. protecticn de'ticec durine this period.
- This is.
t
.i 0.i .
_. - ~
- f i
g'- 41 ; 4023 t ,d i!additiodalprotection.
2
'You'oould refer to page 90, Exhibit 13-A, License 0
3 conditions R.
4 A Yes.
. 5 O Tc insure that construction does not begin with
, ... that cannot meet the acceptance criteria developing a .
7
- l strength at least equal to the yield strength of the re-bar, i
s l't the lact sentence revised could read something to the effect i e .['
' l If any test result is unsuccessful, graviting of the that:
1 control building mcdifications vill not c=nnance and the NRC I
11 l vill be notified.
t' '
52 '
I h
i If not, why not? l l
I3 l A I think Iwould say no to that because the license I4 condition as it is uritten says that the gravit test shall be l 1
., 1
'- e done prior to proceeding with actual construction. So I think 1
' *- l, t
that if you have a cencern in that regard, it is covered by i i
UI that condition, i
Ml i 0 Yacterday, ue asked che Licensee several questions p!
, pconcerning the concrete cir.b tr%ing.
I believe they were '
"' re h jquestions relating to question and answer number 82, Of tif
-' " i Is the NRC satisfied that the proposed planking and 1
l ;
.I
)
.i
. . j' .erate covers provide tse coequate protection for the cables r
I l
underneath that uork? We didn't see any mention o# it in the .
/ k_ ,
(' i,SER report.
's 25 ! MR. GRAY: Actually, Ibelieve that-question will be l-h, i
O
.1 .,'
i l'
14024 C
j
,32 answered by. Mr. Eerring, who will testify about that at a later 2' l i
time. ;
3 !
BY MR. OSTRANDER: ,
4 O Mr. Trammell, could you briefly describe what the ,
5 .
j project managar at Trojan does. . .
6 .
. DR. MCCOLLOM: I wonder if you could either get that-l 7' microphone around, or keep your voice up, or lean toward it, n
, or something, because one of our problems is that those l i
- c. a
'i probicas are aimed cut that way and we can't hear you from 1
10 3
! the bench. '
l U
MR. TRA52CLL: I'll try. I could also speak up... i 1
3 "y MR. CSTRANDER: How far bach do I have to go?
i I
DR. MCCOLLOM: No, just continue.
I ba I 3Y MR. OSTRarDER:
15 0 Mr. Trammall, could you briefly describe what the T'
project manager for Trojan does? What is the scope of his j 1 ,
\
l' ;
,responcibilitien, I guecs, is another way of putting it. ;
' 16 l- A Well, there are two divisions involved with Trojan.
4 It One is licanaing, which is the Divicion of- Nuclear. Reactor lI on n
- !! ;";Regulatione > tha other is the Office. cf Inspection Enforcement. j
^ .
'1 The Division cf. Nuclear Reactor Regulationc ic l o- h]
3 involved in licencing, primarily. Rnd I & E, or-office of d ,
15 ,i Incpeccion and Enforcement, inspects for.ccmpliance with i the t
- 8. I s_ i la llicensa.
25 In.my duties.as. project manager.,:I get involved in 1
a !
q.
' olI
l l
l 1
i b-4025 ,
}} l
[I .
i l
33 I ll every activity with. Trojan, bcth licencing, plant proble t t 4
h the Washington, D. C. ~ focal point for any Trojan difficulties !
n i
'l :
t or licensing actions, or any actions like that. !
'1 I 4 In other words, I em the one,'in Washington,.D.
~
C., 7
- I
~
anyway, whose ich 'it is to know whati is going on in the Trojan )
. i 0 Nuclear Pl?
- t ,
7! !
O Thank you. This morning, you deleted the sections. l 2 ,! of the EEs. related to the work sequence that is (controlled) by 1
? h the licenree. Could you identify where the current work f j! l. i iG:.q sequcnce thct is proposed by licensee is set out, in what j ,
a > ,
il y document it e::icts? (i i
12 f J. The work sequence is set out in their prefiled j i '
I
. 0 ,
testimony of ' t: arch 17th; I'm not cure what question number it
.i I
14 ! is. Also, it was brought out in oral testimony by Dr. tihite ;
~
p I.
15 ,i yccterday, with three slides, and so ' forth.
15 [ Q Ceuld you deceribe the e::isting controls over that
( :
n I,,.Ucrk secuence that enists and HEC's ability to control'it?
I i'
i
- 8 !, A Mell, the procent controls would be that, as we
~
i 1; ]i rcco::raendad,that the licensee would follow the sequencing 'that
- i 20 he described in his testir.ony, possibly, in his k' arch.17 It letter; I'can N recal~ but I think the sequencing is in the.
,1 II ,;prefiled testimony.i
_ c .
si !
25 p My reccmmendcticn vould be that this be included as ;
a 1 i . ':
[m s
21 0 0ne of the reguirm.ents in license condition 6 cc t rittan in th .
the i E Licenae Condizien 6.2.2-h, where it lays out the {
2 i ,
I
.I i
- 6
. t 4
r l- 4026
(
v 34 .
i 1I references that he is expected to follcw in implementing 2
modifications. -
3 I believe work cequence, on the record at least, . is ,
i 4
not a resolved item at this point, although I believe that we have ersentially reached an agreement--at least from the NRC's 6
- standpoint--on what the work sequence would be.
7 It offers numerous alternatives and permeatations.
8 Mr. Herring vill tectify on our precise acceptance of that l
o work sequence and its alternatives. ,
10 In finalizing, if there is anything in that sequence which we believe is so important that we don't want to have the
' "n licencee hava flenibility to make a judgment on whether it 13 can be adjtsted or not, then I would recommend that it be I
[ included in the license condition also.
15 I t But until or when that gets received, I will be in i
. i
'! c better position to make c judgment en that. Technically, i
,' ? rirht now, he uculd be able to--with thic rece:cmended license d
i r '3 l'! condition--he would be able to make adjustnant to the work l'
a w!
sequence as he describes it. He is. not held to them literally, 10 "! provided he does the required safety evaluation in making such i
I EI l changes.
22 ; O S0 that safety evcluation'will be done in the content
.i
.. , - i
'" ' o f . . . . . . ? !
l
, 's. .
L 5, A
~
~ Tar. that's whet ..I envisioned in that license d 24 ' ccnditien, .that he ,would htve some Lflexibility tc make
- l. 1
-li.
- +
4027 l 1 l 1
>v i,m r i
} }
j adjustcents that he might not have forsseen today but.' that, j e l-. ! I g' finally, later on down the lin.e, have bec,eme necchsary.
{ )
-3 . * \, . , I '
And I'm sure ,that scite ' of those are quite trivial.
- .l 1
. f, \
4
[ So the reason for that is to ^ giVe him the flexi$ility subject ,
f
, 51 >
\
t to the constraints of 50.50, the regulations, much as he has. ,
.\
l
.: i t .
the 51enibility to make changes in the facility with the f) 1
.. .I .
e t 1
- required evaJuations.
s *I ,
l 0 Does 50.59 require that the licenses notify the NRC :i l
i 1
3 i l
.. in cdvance of making such changes?
t
- j .
l r
- 9. w. -l
! A 50.
11 .
Q Dcos it require that the licensee notify tne NRC i
b
\ '
when such changes are made, or scmstime after?
i J t ~m
[ A Yos,itrequireshimto.notifyinanannualreporttol ,
M f' NRC anything that is--I believe.it is a ono-year r6 port, a l
, ~s :i su= nary of the scf aty evaluation of such chtnges.
i ;
l '
9' *= i i.:
O ?nf that would be receised sometime after the work' '
. 11
!'!hr.d heen dcne?
n' ; { .i-
, l A Yes. i l i
Q Does the NRC have any intention of asking for more i
og
" il r i
Pfregusat rcport:ng or 10-C-;213.T-50.59...? 1 l
' 3 ) ,
i p .e. v;, I might add though that I think this is a proper {
.. , l
- ~ :
dlway to do that. Ecuerer, at the same time, I wculd say that I
1 m" it , '
' W s conctruction jcb is going to be monitored periodically ; l O v h '
l
} ~
2f llby the Cffice of Inspection and Enforcement in Regicn 5 with
,; . l 2s_ 4-iconctruction-inspectors.. In addition, there are. two. resident l
,I i l l
il Lt - i g
j ;
1 36 4020
[
1 l 'increctora at Trojan who would be following these modifications 2 I
.on a daily basis. .
3 .
.And with that type'of surveillance of their activitier, 4 .. .
I think it is fair to say that if~'nything a ccmes up--changes .
. 5 come up,or that raise any questien in the resident inspector's mind- that we will fi.id out about it right away.
7 '
0 If the resident inspector was diss&tisfied with.tinat he per:eived to be an inadequate analysis of the change, what a
~
would be r.he reporting procedurs to be followed? ;
4 10 A The enforceraent could result from that if we don't 11 agree c.th what change would be made. In other words,
/
we thinh that the judgment he has made involving an unraviewed p~
safety Gastion is wrong, chare are a nurabar of things you can l
do uhen yt u ara faced with a situation like that.
15
'c be frz.nk, it doasn:t hsppen ve:f often. But .T Il 16 y:n can ste.vt with trying to reach an agreement with the 9J [ Licensee thw he made an error
. Or, perhaps he can convince -
. IC ycu that we ande an error en this matter.
'-c
., i The first thing to do is understand it better. .At 4
20 the o.ther ini .if the spectrrm, if it is scrething that we
- 14 dI think needs conecticn, we hr.ve the option of issuing an order; 1
" . p
> that door it almyc open to us. That would be the other
>s e,:trene.
N x_. '
24
( IC.. CSTT.ND2In We have no further questions, lir.
25 Traltrell, Thank-y:2. -
f e
-g.
l l
l:. i 4029 i
,V b 7 Ig J
CHAIPliAN ICLLER: Thank you.
2 Intervenors...
0
'DY MS. BELL (FOR TEE INTERVENORS) 4 l Q First of all, I don't believe it's used, so who is
. 5 at the NRC Panel,and the number of witnesses, that is going to 6 address the issue of what the safety significance of the 7
sequence of the work,is?.. I G A That would be Mr.' Herring.
i 0 O Where, if in any place in the SER, were the Three-Mile 1
10 , land lessons learned applied to the NRC's evaluation of the I i
l i
11 modifications of the plant?
12 A There is ne discussi0n of Three-liile Island lessons i i 13 '; learned items in the Safety Evaluaticn Repo-* i
., i 14 0 I didn't mean discussion. I meant where might some I 15 of those lascons learned have been applied to the evaluation. ,
16 j A There are no araac where they have been applied.
I 17 :There wac one that was discussed earlier this morning, and *
)
i .
I in perhaps some r.oro yecterday,about the technical support center 1
IF being the viewing gallcry. ,
. l !
i 20 r Thic was an item ve were aware of at this point, or
.]
21 .I,hortly thereafter. Abcut the ear.e time we .were icsuing a .]
Il l 22 Fli safety evaluatir., I beccme aware that that was going to be 5
1
'l .. .
l
_ 23 { the technical support center. Or, perhaps a littic bit befcre. .I
- .24 1that. >
.\ ! .
J 25 That uns the only crea'that touches'on lessons. learned, 1 .
')
I i-
.i '{
i.
3 L* ,,.
4030 i <
[UN ~
l
^
h 1[e ,
Q In looking at tha schedule for modification work in !
'l' SER,. it talks about. the .tctal tims for completion of the
'3 i modification program is there for slightly less than 10 months.
p
."A Hould that 10-month period in any way affect the '
. 5 nececsity for the viewing ~ gallary to be used as that technical 5: support center by January 1, 19817 7 A Yss, I think it would impact en cur requirements S
which PDE is adherring to, are'that that technical support
? center 50 functional by January 1, 1981, or earlier. And I ;
I i 10 uculd think there would be ccme activity in that roem while the l
!! mcdification work was in progress.
e it ! Q So the viewing gallary might be being transformed, l ! l t
13 fbe in the procecs of being transformed, into the technical i t
1.c. jsupport conter while it itself had One of its accesses under-1
- 3 [l temporary . . .
, 13 } A Well, cc I understand it, they are going to provide-
.i 17 hl h
a temporary Ic6 der, wo:: den ladder, or semething like that, from je t 13p fthe turbine building into this technical' support center. That !
- p is my understanding.
- 1 6.
't g3 !
But, in any ca.e. there is the noemt1 access, uhich h.! l I
m is a cencrats s:cirway going inte the technical support center.
3 e
4
'And there ic ne reasen tc think thct trouldn': be adecuate as
- .x. .,Ln access point.
i
[m
. _o, '!, 'O For the:rurpotec of...
L 25 l A For.getting to the technical support center, yes.
l, ,
I i
c d ' I
4031 39 i
(
\ li 6
.O In Section 4.9 at page 50 of the SER, dealing with N the inspection of the nodification work, it said that it.
3 expected that approximately 150 inspector manheurs would.be 4 required for the inspection program.
5 How was this number "150 inspector manhours" arrived o at?
7 And would you consider that a minimum amount of time S to ensure safety?
9 A Well, I didn't prepare this section of.the Safety i
10 l Evaluctina Report, but I'll tell you how Ve did get it.
l.
11[i CHAIR AN MILLER: Do you hcVe personal knowledge of it?
12 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
\
12 CE.3.IR!'M MILLER: Then, don't ask him.
M '
MR. GRE,Y: Mr. Chairman, this was cne of the sections i.
15 o that I was n6t goint to offer into evidence.
10 0 C5AIFF.AM MILLER: One of the secticns of what?
s 17 12. GPJd: One of the rections of the safety report 1
18 that I was not going to offer into evidence. I did-offer it' 19 . beccuse the.Socrd had indicated yesterday the entire document l
20 hl in.
21 C:ILI51Gl' XIfLER:j I rectil that you indics.ted that 2.2 y there were seme. sections the staff was not. going to effer into
!l I .j cvidence. I think we tched you to at icr.ht identify the t
\
v 'I4 ft. >
sneirc 5EE oc we would hs.vs it for the record; and thct you i N 1 .
25 wculd then be permitted to' indicate those scetions.which you '
I L$
P -
. . .. . . - ._ . -.. .=
4032 l'
i l did not wich to proffer.
40 i 2 IIR. GRAY: Well, we do not have a witness availrble 3 to suppcrt this section. It was prepared by 'a construction ;
i 4 inspector. In fact, the one that would be involved in the I
-1
)
. 5 inspection fer us.
6 CHAIP;O21 MILLER: Well,'are you withdrawing the '
e 7 cection. How does the record stand with regard to'the SER, l
. l G Enhibit 13-A of the Staff?
S IE. GPAY: I said I had not intended to offer this 10 ; in the first place, and. I will withdraw the secticn new. .
[ t il } C:iAISI M MILLER: Licensee? Oregen? Intervenors?
I i
i p- p 12 All right, which section do you wish to withdraw?
. V
\~
13 Is in 4.97 l
14 lin. G:U.Y: Yes, .3.9. <
l, I 15j CI*AI.723di :IILLER: All right, 4.9, there being i'
ic !l no ebjection, will be concidered to be withdrawn from Staff. I h
It .l e ;!. i, Unibit 13 A. <
i l
I 111 right, proceed.
- m l'! .
19 d
20 }
3 i i 2] 6 i l I l
na i
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4
- f 'u {d I4 25 . ' 1
,).
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4 b.
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4033 s
s 1 CHAIT_'.AH ICI.IIR: That is Page 50 in the SER 41 2 Staff Erbibit 13A. At Page 50 the paragraph 4.9 entitled 1 pg by SG 3 Inspection of the Control of bedding modification work, 4 has baen deleted.
, 5 MS. BELL: I think the answer to my next question m 6 maybe somcwhat the same. 4.12 qa qc requirements is not 7 licted in --
0 CHAIEGN ICLLER: Which page is that?
l 9 . Ms. B2LL: Page 57. '
, 10 CEAImW7 ICLLER: 57?
11 .MS. HELL: It 10 not listed in the Staff Exhibit m p~ Uo. 12. Would that alco be one of these subjects?
L,s
\
s 73 Iin. AXELRAD: Yes. That was also one. If you wish 34 I can go through and now delete the ones that we are 15 , not --
16 CEmi ICLLER: That might be a good idea and 1../
it will sava us some time.
I 7g 1*R. AXELPSD: Mr. Chair: nan, if I mcy speak for c gg minute?
39 CCAIPlWi IIILLER: Yes.
- e. 1 .
MR. AXELRAD: Some of the matterc that the
- s. .
- u. l intervenarr are now ctremotinc to cross ers"4ne on, not per ' I l
taining to their admitted contentions and I wonder whether it 4 1 s
i fm ,,,
- !. ic appropriate under the cir'cumstcnces for the the i.nterrenorcj 5 i s
a to becin to ach a series of cuettic.u. with respect to the
.i l.
.e t
i t
,I 7
17
. .,, 0 .A i
61 SG .4 :
,k documcar which coes nct rf.r.ze to their contentiens and t.
.I ,
th'crcloro should not be c be.cis
, I J or with:',rwing pertions of 1, I what is a "self-contained doc.sient; partieu.lcrly, t.'htn the 1
. t, .
t.
.pertiona they cra talking abcut do not pertain to the contentici t
- 5 i
that they have made in this preceeding. i r i . . l CEAIRJ17.H MILLER: Well, wo'11 haar from the inter- ! ,
/ .t venore t.nd Stttff on that prcposition.
- S FA .ROSALII:: - If we eculd'he.v2 r. mint >:e, Mr. Chai. r.nh.
o.
C'J.5 IW.AN .". .L' *.*'. .-
. ".e .a., .
10 ,
.U . DELL: We '.' era net E : tem.ctine. to cress-2 amine ,.
11 .
on these issuec. We were simply trying tc.f.icure.our... .
j r se l
.. .a e
.y un.:. . M ig % e **
- m.
- a. 2awa a :
i -g
- r. corry, 2. cangt n.aa.: you.
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MS. BELL: Ma were not attcm.etine. l:.o crest-eranine ,' ,
s /,
5 on three 135ueG. UC Were Gir.nlv. tr. vine. tc lic.'uru out Whc
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t So I don't see why that isc'.'.e ir r21eva.nt. i iG i .
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4035 43 1p HS. EELL:
Because some of the SER sections are left 2 out.
3 CEAIRMAN MILLER:
Some were left out of the descrip-4 tion of'the preparaticn of the authors thereof?
5 MS. BELL:
Right, and now I find out that those are 6 the"onec
. that Mr. Gray was going to withdraw.
.7 C7AIRIW! MILLER:
It seems to me that is what the 5 c:cplanati:.1 is, yes.
s 12.. GR!a":
That's correct, Mr. Chairman. Knat was 10 done in Itr.ff
- hibit 12 was simply to identify those sections 11
^
that we intended to introduce, along with the author of those 12 sectio nt" There were sections left out; that was because we 13 did no. intend to introduce those.
14 , MR. ACELP,AD:
4 It night be simpler under the circum-15 i starass simply to list the remaining authors. If that is tc l$'t the ?nly info.v. .ation the Intsrvenors wanted,
- -! ob90 tion to that going into the record.
i o
- 10 ' ,
CHAIPEMI MILLER: t t ide have got two or three different 9,e objecticns. iie h 1
4 ave got-two er three different questions. 17e ge q here got three or four diffe, rent c}uestions pending at the 2? , se:e time. Let ma bach up juct a minute.
22 Mr. Grty, let me inquirc: The SCR'is filed by the
- . Staff.
. h'h:t is your understanding, under our regulatons, as 2
"i thri. purpose and function of the Staff's SER,, in a proceeding
,e n
d suah as thic? -
O
. ,. I
- Mh4hn (w% -
4036 1
1
\N' I \
44 MR. GEAY: In a proceeding where there is not a j 2' l mandatory hearing required. !
3 CEAIRMAN MILLER: Not what?
4 MR. GRAY: Not a mandatory hearing required, where 5 you go to proceeding en an operating license, and then such 6 as what was involved here.
4 7 The issues that have been raised either by Intervenors l 8[ cr the Licensing Board are to b6 addressed in the hearing.
n 9 Any remaining safety or environmental matters with regard to 10
( particular acticn are to be addressed by the Staff on its
- i 11 own; and it can be separate frca the hearing process.
- 12 For example, if there is no issue related to environ-13 mental considerations of this propos2d modification, that 14 nevertheless doec not relieve the URC from making an approprinde l 15 environmental evaluation to determine just what environmental 16 effects there would be.
17 li In that vein, the Staff has made an environmental il
, is F evaluation. However, that we did not consider to be part of 19 the issue to be addressed in this hearing.
20 17e believe that all the matters that require inquiry i
21 I( have been covered b'1 the SER. Cart'ain matters in the SER are i 1
ill J 22 d not matters to be concidered in this hearing and, therefore, l l
23 i we had intended simply deleting'those as what we offer into f ," j 24 ; evidsnce hire; they would not be included. l
\s - ',
1 l 25 t CHAIRMAN MILLER: Well,.what is the basis of the- , I i
1 1
1
, n !
I 1I.
! t f
.i 4037 tO i . , .
L I
! f ' Steff's position that rafety or environmental natters are not i .1 .
- 4 f ,
L
- t. to be handled by the 3ctrd in the hearing proper? '
3 '.
i E.1. GRAY: The basis is, I believs, (10-C-04-2.76 0A) ,
4 inlich indicates that in .an.o~erating p license... !
.. e CEJ?TG1AN IdLLER t What was the cita$ ion--2.7 tinat?
j MR. GRAY: -'608,' ,
- r
'r f CHAIMGli MILLER: That's,76OA?.. ...
~
MR. GRAY: . Yes, which indicates in an operating ,
h I
licence procceding, the matter to be decideil by the presiding
'" i
', Eccrd are these mattsrs ,either put into controvercy by the
- 4. i parties,. er antarn @iph th* 5tnard itplf antarminas4 to ha '
p i
- cerious safet.y, envir.cnmental or cc= men defense and security 1 f
13 ! i matters. .
\
1 Y',.. I CR.IP21Tli MILLER: Sv the way, that is presently the 1
cubject of censideration revision, isn't it--760A7 It'c the et . l I' '
s inhibitics upon the Board to'only in extraordinary circumstance.y l 1
. t
'l ] is b?ing subreani.ially moderated? Or, is it already...
n I
MD. 0"tAY: I think it already has been changed. There!
en*
4-
. used to be a : action to this both here and in Appendi:: A,whl.chl
- f. .
' I said ths card was nct to raise other matters except in' 5q- i
. cxten di:x.y circ;_%.:ances.
i
'; ICA:Tl!Ili MILLER: But that has changed. Deleted.
l'e MT.. GLAY: Yec.
'~
M In' addition,:.' hr.litsve there .is. . .
l E. CHI R'DJi. lCLLER: I don't quite see how this supports !
7 l
I l'
4038
'(m*
\
./
46 1 your proposition, though.. At least, I am not follow.ing your 2
- l
. argument.
3 MR. GPJ2 : My argument'is that this is in fact an L . .
a operating license proceeding within the meaning of.this.
. e regulation, such that the' matters to be censidered by the
, Board are those either put in issue by the parties, or. raised i
, by <the Board itself.
Other matters, it may...
's a
'~
, CHIIF20S MILLER: Well, 'thats what it isn ' t, but l
'O where is your regulation saying what it is and putting 11 '
restrictions on it? -
(~ m C '"
MR. GRAY: Oh, saying what matters are at issue?
l i
I3 C3LIPIW:' MILLER:
Yes. ,
MR. GR72: This: reculation doas not say that.
1 15 i CPJ.IFlifa MILLER: Uo, and', hence,.it may not even U be contrciling.
Or, at least, it might not even be persuasivsl ,
U if ens approached it frca that point of view.
I E 2ecause Uc don't look at the regulation pertaining 3" c, 'i
, to an operating licsnse or to a construction permit, so, ; ,
d
- I
", 1 therefore, this being a ... proceeding, vou do or vou don't t
- J a
t :
i follcu. .
I
" i MR. GRI.Y : But, based en the contentions that have t l-l 3
- been ' admitted in this. proceeding as well as what-we believe !- )
i v _ , . t g to be the Licencing Ecard cor.:tunication of the questions that t i
25 ithas'raicad,therewerecertainmattersthatwerecoveredinj-
.] .
f.
I
I 4039 l-~
l v'
SER that didn' t fall into either of those categories.
one of them was the environmental evaluation report.
! 3 t
, 'o CHAIRMAN MILLER:, Well, the Board's ruling sustained j 4 i
by the Appeal Board on environmental was that the're were no
~! changes of circumstances frem the time it was reviewed by S
the Board, seized of jurisdiction and the operating license y .
j procedure.
I t a Therefore, there being no change in circumstance, O
there was no need or perhaps even jurisdiction to re-review; io I
! and that was sustained by the Appeal Board.
11 That did not say this Board could not e.xamine environ-
/' (n ~. montal matters.
N ,)i ..
MR. GRAY: It doesn't say that the Board cannot 1 '*
o examine tcday. I don't think it says anything one way or the 15 other.
16 CHAIRMX1 MILLER: I am not follcwing you because I I
thought you were contending that, because of these provisione, i
l"a '
, this Board could not now presently have jurisdiction to go so
'~4 i'
into environmental matters.
i
~
no!' FJ.. GRAY:
No, I am not contending that at all.
., . I
! CD.~RMJJi MILLER: Then I did misunderstand you.
,e l MR. GRAY: Yes, I am not contending that you don ' t
- - l have the authority to go into that. I am simply saying that I I
[s t \_ ,.
" i i
1
( / ; the.t htd not been onc of the issues in controversy or issue
- s. / - -
t 2f raised by the Scard with regard to these modifications.
4
., 1 It -
tr I 3 4040' l
\ 1 48 j
I l Nevertheless, the environmental matters were something 1
- c. .
that needed to be considered by the Stcff with regard to '
o I.
s the e modifications. He did consider that and that was '
I 4
1 included in this safety evaluation report, but not being 5 t obvioucly in controversy, we don't wish to offer that into ea
, evidence.
7 i
i CHAIRMAN MILLER: Well, now we are getting down to ,
G :
1 the Eoard's interest in hearing all kinds of concern. For i' i
9h i y cn.uple, ths Se:tien 4.9, we granted ycu a motion to delete. 1 10 !! '
- a inspection of the control building modificatica work, the o
4 r
O neard would certainly be interested in the substantive aspects l h
c "H '
of such an issue as that, in view of.its overriding concern l t ,... l;. .. ;
- a. .ca une sarety anc. ocner aspects as a resuit or tnis proposed i n
l' g~i a f nodification, and the work performed thereunder; and' interim 1. ,
p i
- =" i't cparation and interin cperatien, interim during modifications,.;
t I f. ~
' and the . hole set of issues are matters that this Board feels t sv
- . concern t. tith. !
u t l-j Now the fact that the Intervenors have or have not f y j .
i u
raised certe.in cententions, and the fact that upon concolidation n -
" ; I for the failurr. of cne group or censo.a.catec. intervencrs to '
,l 1 l!l respond to discovery requests, c.nd the like,and result:ing in "w 4 i i their being permitted upon application to consolidate With y l 1: >
, -, , i ths bsr.aining intervenorc--Mr. Rosalie and his, organi::ation--
l b]
('m I.
, ~ . eu i. -
" 4 l (' dcecn't necessarily answer the questien as to what entent, for'r l c
- i 1
one thing, that the Board shonid go into these matters,'or I
t
~ ?h e; .
a a- .. . _ . . .
3.
i L. !
l Li p
4041
's
- i i
t
/ -5
'~' '
I permit parties to.go into.them; cnd', secondly, the extent to-t 4c -
2 l which those who have not raised issues by the contention
+
" ~
route should nevertheless be pernitted to go, with reasonabla i 4 l '
limitations, into subject matter areas that are of interest '
. e, to counsel, parties and Board.
6 That, I think, is what'we are trying to find out.
I 7 I MR. OSTRANDER: Mr. Chairman, if I may address that I v~
briefly. I think it is rather simple to the extent that the ,
I 9 1 inter 7enors have very specific contentiens which have been !
cimitted in this prceeefing, those mattsrs ought to be !
I ' . I revizwed and decided by the Ecard--t'o the extent that the
, l
/ 12 r
\' - 3 card dedided they uculd get into other matters pertaining to ,
\s,-
U the proposed modificationiprogram that it wished to examine, i i
l those metters would have been examined also.
i i i i U With the subject of the NRC's Staff inspection prograd, l
}
U there is cn ongoing inspection program, as everyone is well
\
I cwcre, ccnducted by the Division of Incpection Enforcement IU
. under a. resident inspector's f acility--as the Board is well aVare. .
'O ' If the Eoard had any concern as to the exieting,' I I
i ongeing regular MRC inspection program that it should be
- e. i
'g
, expanded or modified, any question the Bocrd might have en it, 9
- m. . >
"- I think if the Board vished to obtain ' that information, it
^x +
.~- .
t, s
^4 f:i coul'd have read th'a opinion--and can still if it wants to.
IC' 'But, unless the issue uns specifically raised by-o o
- e p 50 t
G 1
- the Board itself .since it was not an admitted contention, ,
t l
/
2 i .
~
there uculd have been no need for the Staff, or for the 1
3 ;
) Licensee, to cddress that matter, because that matter would'
'4 not be in controversy to this proceeding. -
5 .
CFAIPdQ! MILLER: Short of the Board's acknowledging
- 6 .
. here power to pursue matters at its own initiative, if 7
necessary, from a safety point of v.iew--short of that aspect, u n .
't hcwever, we have the question: When matters are contained in u
9 ! I i En S3R, why cre not they themselves, when the SER comes into 1 10 )
hl . the record 7 -whether er nct under the proffer of the Stcff--why '
~il '
0 is not that SER and the matters contained therein a proper m
1 c,
% subject cf interrogation by any party? With or without 13 content .ons?
14
- ID.. GPXJ
- Mr. Chairman, what the staff could,have 15
] done here--we didn' t do it, but what we could have dons--would
- "e j he.ve been to present this document. that is now called the SER, i
j with appropriate supporting witnessas, but with that Section H
n'
' g' 4.9 dc1stei..
15
.L. Thtt then would not. . . as our evidence here. If a
ei q
" 4e l thtt cectica 10 deletzd, thc et a secticn that the n
" '6 Soard er cny of the parties ccn look on for evidence because
~, ,
il it simply is net en record. That was my intent in saying that i !
i e h
~'
- we would delete Section 4.9.
o, -
3 I \ hl CEAI?lG.M ICLLER: Yes, but '* ** 4 ' n ' t exactly address-
__ i lingthemcjorpointeither. In the first p1Ece,=the Board did 1
w-___-_--_--_-- _ - : *1- --_ - :-
.__--_____---_----_----=:----:-----------,---m-~-=--=---.
i l
n 1
4043 i f l lOv) , i.' raise question and go into such matters in the phase one l i 1
~
2 hearingy interin operaticas. h'e were quite interested in the 3 methods of inspection,~who was going to do it, and so forth.
4 And we are. satisfied from the testimony that it would be done.
5 Lut we are quite concerned with that in the interim I
6{ operation hearing. It wasn't a matter that was just now ,
_ i e being injected for the first time, to everyone's surprise.
8 MR. GRAY: I believe'that was inspection after an 9 e earthquths.
I N parden me? t j CH'.IPll'd MILLER:
Il{ MR. GRAY: That was inspecticn after an earthquake.
m !
fQ
\
12! ,
CET.IRMAN MILLER: There was also inspection while
'2 : certain work was being done. Eensmber, the interim operation I
i 14 i itself was enbject to a certain... changes, and the like, 55l which the Ecard got reports on. It was handled properly by I ,
13 ; Staff, and everp nc alce. But the Scard was interested, i
17 ll concerned, and I think r.ddressed it .in the initial decisien. 1 F i ,
18 MR. GFJ.Y : Yec, sir.
19 t CHAIFJLW MILLER: I don't see why this would be any 1
il i 20 D different. -
[
- ; )
21 ;
R. OETP5NDER: Mr. Chair.cn... ! :
)
1 22 iI CHAIFF.AN MILLER: Yes. '
lj '
_ D i MR. OSTRIGDER: To confuse things a little bit more, I;
.,-the State of Oregon filed.an Interrogatory on the MRC Staff l} ,
25 j some time e.gc rcgarding the same issue that is set out in _
f i l l i
6
'l
'l l
4044 1 N
t R
\A 1 l Section 4.9 in the SER. I think those responses are available 2
if the Board wants them.
3 CHAIR 11TS MIILER: Yes, I think that we. . . well, we )
t, I received ~ copies of the Staff's response to the State of l i
l Oregon's Interrogatories? Yea, I remember seeing them.
S .
The point is, whether or not the Board wishes of its 7
own initiative, ..., to go into that, we know we have the 6
power and it isn't contested.
c
~
What we are inquiring is, short of the Board's 10 l, c::ercise of its inherent powers or duty, whether matters
, which either are in the SER, if, had they been initially r
s
/ _
omitted, shculd have been in. It comes out to about the same N-s i
thing: Are they a prcper subject for inquiry without the g
1/' l ~
centention route. i I3 j IG. . AXELRAD: Mr. Chairman, the basic distincticn 16 between the cituation that we have in this phase of the II proceeding ecmpared to the situation that we had in the first l 1, 1 j
, * !, stage of the proceeding, interin operation, was at that tine, '
<e l
as the Board will recall, it was agreed to proceed.without <
~O .
contention. Therefore, everything that had related at all l
2)
-to the questien of interim operation wac Sefore'the Board and
~
was available for inquiry by any party.
i 3-
)
Once the proceeding becomes'a more normal proceeding ; .
/-~s \- i
/ 2"1 where there are contested issuee raised by Intervenors...
let I5
(
me bach up.one step. If'there had been no Intervenors who ,
l
,, s$-
a A Mr N =M
t 4045 O
( 1 had' asked for a hearing and raised contentions, there would n
~
have been no hearing at all.
3 CHAIRIW1 MILLER: Would have been what?
4 MR. AXI:LRAD: Been no hearing at all. "
5 CHAIPlG4T MILLER: Well, your client was given the right, the opportunity, to ask for a hearing.
7 MR. AZELRAD: Right, and we did not.
8 ljy CEAIM ZN MILLER: And he did not, the Licensee. You !
" . . are telling me he uculdn't have asked for it.
l!
! " F ELEAD: Right.
.. il (Laughter) .
n fi ['
12
! MR. An2LIG3: What we have is a situatien of the V I*
i l
} second phace of the proceeding that the issues are limited by .
M
.I the Commission's regulations to the matters of any intervention, ;
B
] and those matters which the Board, in accordance .with the p- ,.
j regulations, wishes ro raise themselvec.
E e
a So the fact that the Stiff afght additionally hava ;
'S to invent other matters, it might ultimately be' abic to issue 19 o the license amended, uith additions, if ever, after the Board
- i reachef. its ' decision, doesn't mean that the matters the staff E
4 would have to adf.ress for those purposes autcmatically becomes i 1
,. o -
(
~
- pcrt of the proceedings. j
- 4 li
. The' Stiff could have, had it wished, issued a v .
ji
'-1 ue do: msnt of come hind which dealt with the matters presently ts a
.. o l
' before thic prc= ceding, and waited until after the 2oard 1.
l i J - . . .
4046 C e
! I
. s
' i reached its decicion on the matters it was going to decide, ;
to address the'renaining matters which Staff had to decide 1
- j S
hafore issuing the license.
4 The fact that it happened to put those matters into an SER,' which was issued before this proceeding was concluded, l 6 *
} does not affect that.
, ';i .
t j CHAIRMAN MILLER: Initially, when it was still a i 3! natter of Staff proceeding, and before the opportunity for e,
.i,' a hearing was accorded by NRC and published in the Federal Register, I guess this veuld be Mr.y 26, IS78, that original .
11
, . notice that we are .cil familiar with--it goes into these 0 * '- o matters at some length.
13 t t
Attached to that was a safety evaluation by the i
14 ! Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, relating to the seismic '
I 15i ll design, an analysis of the control building, z.nd so on, which ;
l 13 '
centained cortain safety evaluation material for a number of 17 J pg.ges. <
I3 That was Nay 26, 197S. So I think it'was part of the
.n i
~.h{ order for modificatica for license itself, issued by the 4
nh'( n Acting Dire: tor, Office ef Huclear Reactor Regulations. And la El i . thtt was the state.mtnt of. the. technical staff's function, and I 5
21 So fOrth. '
f v
22j ,
So now it would be ancm;1ous if, at the time that it l
l g s r
( 24' uc.c handief--id: : cay say ad inistratively. I don ' t mean 25 .peEiod, but nonadjufatory fashion--you will have.a. safety- i i
f,
,\ 1
, _ - . .. - . . -.y ____z =____.____.= _=__ _ ____ _ _ __ _.
I: l t 4047 gw i
p
,i
\' i4 evaluation. Eut you get to the adjudagatory hearing where E:
i h
9n 1 you offer an opportunity to Interveners, and others, and, 3
suddenly, you tell ne you don't even have to have the SER, 4
or you don't have to have that SER contain those things which 3i are material and relevant?
i G
, That's a strange argument.
MR. AZELRAD: No, all I was saying vas that on a C
q safety evaluation, where the documents are contained which j q
~
t the Staff used, which wculd be prepared for the purposes of l y tn:.s procescing, uculd be thoce matters which deal with the
't 9 centention: which have been raised in the oroceeding plus any !
-s !
- ') 1 s
~
[(~%' s ! cther matter that the Bot.rd determined that they should look '
\ '
57
'~
J into.
d 1"+ ll
.i . CEAIRMAN MILLER: ?cu .are saying that an SER by the i;
I - }';l Staff icn't necessary.
n j HR. AXEIrc: I ca not aware of any regulation t i I
y which requires an SER into the main proceeding. Calling it i o
c '
s~r lf} the safety svaluation report is sicply the medium title for. .
d i 1.~1 : ",i It c0ula se uritten as direct testimony. ;
t1 I
... a
'y / a CEJtI2IIAK MILLER: I suppose the Board, cubject to 2' [ revieu, cou"6 find that there was an inadequate SER prepared a
. .. i ,
j and decline to p cccad'further until there was an adequate SER s
i >
4
- prapt. rad and filed. !
,s s --
I;l 1 !
- ~ ,
(
s_-
[ HR. RHELEAD: The Board could request of the Staff, I.
p> 1 -
'O 'I and., ac a matter of fact, the ... licensee, to eramine the i I
- l i
'f 1
! l 4
.I
t i
4048 ;
~ !
( .' '> matters which it thought should be examined in order for it ,
I to be... .
e 3 CHitIRMAN MILLER: Yes, safety evaluation. The Safety Evaluation Repcrt by, the Staff. - .
. 1 5i so we are dealing with an ancmalous hind of hearing
. .t t
u; really because it doesn't fit into the stereotype of an i
I #
7l i operating license or a construction permit 2i proceeding. ,It i ,
9 ij 6oesn't have coparate regulations set forth,that govern it any 1:
E- (I differently--whether er not you have the nec;essity of contention:
t l
1C ' uhether you have or not the requirement of an SER, or a finding n
il 11 tj which you don't need to have in an environmental report, let's
, ~
0 _ 12a0 sal. .
U 13 !i .
Ar.d, yet, when I ask you what the procedure is, it 14 !! seems to as you give me a mi::ture. I am just wondering now d
15 j! has this mattar bzsn thought cut and defined by either 16 ;'i .i lice..aee and staff in a procedural sense?
0 l
- 7 .. "J.. AXELRAD: Well, the question leads back to him : ,
3 l'
10 .d. to operate uith a license, if any. There have been any il 0
nu ccr or crersus.ng 12. cense amenc:nants including, for e:: ample, 1 L 20 .: enendments for e :picnations in fuel' . . . That's normal.
'l
- j Thare are ... and contentions, and such ether matterc as the r
n !} Eos.rd determines under this particular regulation for its y c ;! precedent, or whatever matters the Board particularly wishes r
n +
G H-i
,9 . ;; to enplore...
- g(
- - -CEI.IrlSli MILLER: 'In these ameniments to spend fuel i e- '
, f-I
. p"I . I
- .-- . u ., -- : -
- t .I
k' 4049 ,
r l
\ 1 g pools,for e:: ample, what is the status of the NEPA, as you li 9 I undsrstand it?
9 MR. AZ'1 RAD: I know that no environmental impact 1
t' statement has been. prepared as far as I'm aware of any.
e
. CIE RMAN MILLER: But, instead, uhat has been done?
6 They went back to appraisals, haven't they?
I MR. .'03LRAD': Yes, they are acecmpanied by environ-3 mental impact appraisals. And, based on those appraisals, it a
i was determined that environmental impact statement was not-
- v. : . .
p neenet.
.il U CEhIRMAR MILLER: Ycu see, the Staff then complied D
p -
12 with both needed. requirement as it understood it and our own 1
'o ; regulations, and made the studies and determined that an .
., a :0
' "1 1
enviror.nental impact appraisal, under a negative finding--that 11 i; ;' was the situation--was a sufficient compliance with NEPA-- { ,
13 but not that HEPA did not apply.
l 17 9 nr.. ;/mLEAD: In addition,.there was a Cormission f ,
i' .
l 3 l} policy . statement fer preparat:.on or a genera.c environmental a.
IE ;! 1.T. pact state sent and the spent fuel storage, which said that l
. , t.
i l:
i, c
20 !l at lear: an envirennental impact appraisal would ba prepared 1
i l 1
it i M ? for all spent fuel pool licensing actions, and so forth; that I;
- t. .
1 12 h generic ctatement was ccmpleted. ; l a.
r 2! V - CIER11M7 MILLIE: Yes, it said four er five criteria l i
r U i V 24 !! that t* re filed genericly and a further statement that each li t 25 {.Ecard.,however, ch0uli consider whenhar or not the . . . ' criteria ,
.~ -
h.j .
5 0
.l
t
! Y 4050 t
applied in the situation.
2 MR. AXELRAD: Yes, sir.
3 OEAIRMAN MILLER:
We'll take a short recess. Is 4 :
there an thing further anyone wants to say on this. subject?-
5 (No recponse) .
6 (Whereupon, a recess was taken.)
J 7
CHAIRMAN MILLER: We vill resume our evidentiary hear -
0 ing.
'f_th reference to the issues which may be requir'ed, the 9 r 2 card *as decided that we believe that the modifications 10 ,
preper.d here are not just simple, ordinary, mind run II modit::ations. These matters are of significance both to the O 12 parti:s, to the cc==uhity, to the NRC, to the licensee.
l U .U 17e are therefore going to pe:= nit reasonable, although M
? l li d:ed, innrrogation on those matters that bear a practical i If [i rr.htionship to the safety, to the SER filed by the Staff .
.G h r et ll I guess there were two SER's, weren't there; one was l nferenced to the wall problets, co-eciled?
M )
HR. GPAY: Yes, Mr. Chairman. '
fC
~
- CEAIRMN.4 MILLER:
1 Then the original SER with whatever '
20 ll s.cdifications that there may be.
l k 21
.Fnat us are considering is that the original order for ;
a i l modifica ion of license was entered May 25, 1978, which was. >
/ 23lp the predecester'of this adjudicatory. hearing, which is the 4 L .
( 44-ll'cubjectofrequestforahearing . 3 L . I
?.5 4
1"han it came to the 'quection of the second issue,
. 1 l
_ - .. ~ .. . .
~ ,
1 1
0
'4051 I
I i whether the secpe and timeliness of the modification required
}
2j by this order to bring the facility to substantial compliance 1
3 ]'t with the licence are adequata from a safety point, we believe 4 that that broad but fundamental issue.is one that the ' Board ;
5 should honor.
S We are familiar with the requirements of contentions.
7 And while we wish to follow the centention requirements so far ,
E as it would be reasonabic, nevertheless, we aren't going to .go I ~
B
{ 100 parcent on the contention practice because this is nos .,
g . . ,
10 y either a ecnstruction permit or an operating license proceeding . l y
~
11 l We believe that the Staff having filed a safety i n l 12 evcluttion report presumably put in there those things which
- 13 ( had come to be material and apart from the safety and other l M pointe cf view. And we concur with their judgment.
J 15j's We rescind our ruling which permitted the Staff to I t.
- C G vithdrm: perciona of it. He are going to hold that the SER -
il '
,7 p1 is in evidence and may be interrogated, within-reasonable
, i 10 iIl, limits--we are n'at going to spend a week on every t on matters j ;
r i t' l] where no contention is filed as such--but nonetheless we are ,
t r
E", going to per::it ecze raasonable inquiries.
i l o
21 m
We wil": permit the Staff, of course, to modify their j li .t 22 ,] SER,.if_~they uich to, if there is a bacis for'it, make l li !
r ll y'correcticns, make it accurcte, update it--all those things,-but O. .;
( .~ !,
-- )
( ,
N F, i within the reops cf that'SER and the matters covered thersin..
.jt .
25 The came would.be true, 't presume, although.we' don't. 3 i i have it before us now,the subsequent SER and the wall problem.-
ll lc f
I 1
i t 4052 1
(
~ s
' That may hcVe its cwn special problems, so ve will be neutral 1
2 1 on that score, I i
- How, Ms. Bell, with reference tos.the situation to .
i 4 l -
g yourself and Mr. Rosalie, you have not just covered yourself 1
. n
~ i i with glory when you came here to file contentions, or to j
, file a reopent;e to interrogatories which sought on behalf of -
ICC and Staff to get same precision. ..
G Ue are not going to reward you for your failures.
e
! Me e.:e paraitting you becacuse we think the public interest ;
.O i F
l indientas that inquiries into those matters covered by the !
<~
y'l t SER, within reascnable llMits and in a reasonable range, may
- n
/ G- "' ;j be inquired.
O Cl But we nre not opening-it up into a long, far-flung i
i
) *, !
interrogation on matters where we regard the Intervenors as 15
.,i not hs. ring sta.ted over a long pericd of time either the M i l cont 2ntion, or ac to thoco contentions they finally wound up l'
t 17 y with es the basis for them.
. g n,
$ '- !\ f
. ; I can tell you very frankly where you stand. You ;
,. I' (
~ s tt will be ptry.itted some inquiry. We don't intend though to }
d I.
ED !{ have any psrty put at a dicadvantage, whether the licensee or ;
l' ^
2! yourselve j cr the Staff.
IEF .
So'since there.hasn't been a grost deal.cf advance
-- 23 b; notice of the &ings you want to go 'into, ve do feel that the
.]
t'~N k_s. . }! n
('- TA !! matters that tle SEE covsr; may be subject to.a reasonable, but l j; l
)
di!.l not unlimitT2, :ross-excmination.
But we are not going to let j i j .
c ,
I' t
l ,
. i
4053 ],
1 1
you go far af'i eld with the subject matter or time.
2 Do you understand what we are saying?
3 MS. BELL: Yes.
(' .
4 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Do you have any objection?
5 MS. BELL: No.
6 CEAIRMAN MILLER: For the record, I suppose everybody 7 else objects. .
1 B j MR.'AXELRAD: Yes, your Honor.
i 9 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Staff?
10 MR. GRAY: Yes, your Honor, I understand the
. 11 Board's concern. I will not object as long as we are doing-f's 12 things; reason' ably here.
O. 13 CHAIRMAN MILLER: All right. State of Oregon?
14 ' 12R. OSTRANDER: We have no objection.
15 i CHAIRMAN MILLER: Now where were we procedurally when 10 -l this question arose? I think you, Ms. Bell', had asked Mr. '
17 Trarctell about some matter that he hadn't really prepared in 18 the SER; cnd Mr. Gray had indicated quite powerfully that 10 j there were others who would be battar able to address that !
, 1 20 l subject. Isn't *k*t where we left off?
I 21 MS. BELL: Yes, and those others that we were refer-gg J ring to, I believe, is somebody named Mr. Eersh, who is not r prosent and,wasn't being intended to be called by the Staff. '
CHAIRMAN MILLER: Well, let me inquire.
24-] linat was it 25 you were asking Mr. Trammell?.
l i-
.e , . . . - . .
,.m. . .- -- 4
-4054 b
( l MS. BELL: I was asking about ninhum requirements
'A of inspection as...
'3
( - #
CHAIRMAN MILLER: On what page was that?
MS. BELL: I believe it was page 50.
5 CHAIRMAN MILLER: Yes, page 50, 4.9. Right, that's 6
. bach in cince we rescinded our action. Inspection of the 7
control building modification work.
O We thought you would ask scme questions concerning 9
that but we will have to find out who is the appropriate 10 witness, Mr. Gray?
11 IC4. GRAY: The persen who prepared this is an '
e
{
\
( 12 inspector from the Region V office of Inspection and Enforcemen t 13 by the nems of Dennis Kersh. i l
1 14
) What I would suggest is that we get in contcet with 15 ,
Mr. Kerch, hcVe Mr. Trcmmell em:plore in' same detail precisely' i 13 1:his deceription of the incpection that will take place.
17 I believe in fact we can have Mr. Tramell than 10 .
describe...
! l 10 i CHAIRMAN MILLER: .
Can Mr. Trammell give seme testimony j - i 20 l on the subject? '
il '; MR. GRAY: Yes, sir. As.I say, what be will attempt l
s 22 to do is to get Mr. Tra-ell up to speed to the e:ctant that
._ 23 ! he can, in fact...
mn () N
[d 24
-25 CHAIRMAS MILLER: Well, why don't we try as far as
, fir. Trcn:mell can speak, beccuse he is project manager, and he t
l d' . . . ,_
t
'l.
4055 O
O I i has quite o. bit of familiarity with this and other NRC 8
2 facilities.
3 Hold off calling anyone in for the mcment. Let's see
(
4 if ha isn't able to supply informat'on i on a reasonable basis 3 as far cs Intervenor's purposeo; and then we'll make a judg-6 ment.
7 tm. A13LRAD: Mr. Chairman, I wonder if it might not 8 be apprpriate under the circumstances to, before getting into 9 questi ning at this time, simply ascertaining frcm the Inter-10 veners ahat point they are trying to reach, what information 11 they c?:s after, so that the Board can determine whether it is m
f 11 } appropriate to have any cross-examination at all on the 1
IS subject, in view of the fact that there is no contention here. ,
i 14j .
* the Board can accertain what they want to. find'out,,
g I
N ll perhtic it could bo e::pedited. l f
10 C2AIENM1 MILLER: All right, Ms. Bell, you may tell 17 p us th1t is the purpose of your e:famination as to Section 4.9 0
3G U in th? SER. \
lJ 10 MS. BELL: Well, first of all, I would like to say i
20 it ucn very limited, although I don't think that our concerns [
I T 21 !!% aborO .t.t are cc treat that I i,:culd want to see the Staff bring
~
22 hs up 9a .idditional W.iuness on the cubject.
3
- c. 23 It simply states .at the end of the section that it O C'
.; it enpacted the.t approximately 150 inspector manhours will be V) r/ ,
ii 1
- 20. j' nquired for this.inapection program. And since that statement 4
]
J
'i
4056
~
.O d 1 was in there without any explanation, then I felt like I would 2
iike to know where that number came from.
3 CHAIRPJE MILLER: All right, that's reasonabin. You 4
may inquire.
5 MS. BELL: The only thi,ng is I can't inquire because 3 / . .
I don't think Mr. Trammell knowji the answer.
2 .
THE WITN3SS: I don't know, I probably know as much as O
anybody. -
0 MR. GRAY:
Icould indicate that Mr. Tra=mell find out to ..
sne answer. -
II CERIRMT<i MILLER: Mr. Trammell's role, I think, is v I9 entensive enough that I believe he can give it. If you can't tell us, Mr. Trammell, you may say so; but I think ud may be 1 *4 able to get enough information possibly to cover the subject.
3 L
If not, then we'll know whether to call sor.ebody else.
mh THE WITNESS: In requesting someone putting Region V P .
on a very general terms what their inspection program would be '
. 18 like, so that he would have this information included, I I ID l
!! rcquested that he include some indication about how much time i
E0 t i would be involved--recognizing that this time would be supple-21 mental to resident inspectors' time, which is essentially .16
~,
,p manheurs a day.
m 23 f[,
(A b Ecuever, there ic'an inspector; he's not'a constructio$
24 { cpecialist. I
! So, at my request, he gave a general statement,: l 25 .
l\ appronicatdly, as he admits there, about how muchtime he would' !
1 1
i i 1- ;
- f - ,
't
1 j
1 1 4057 i
(
11 l
I anticipate when he wrote it some approximately six months ago,
. t on how much time he would be there.
s.* .
g 4
There was nothing intended that this was anything precise.
It could be twice that,.although I would expect that
~-
it would be less than thr.t.
6 .
If there are'a' lot of problem's,.at,the site of
. /- ,
construction, he could be there substantid.11y a greater length ,
of time. 'i U
Obviously, h'e'will gets soms,ibeedback fro = daily .
centact with inspectors--resMent inspectors--and that is 1
c.
just a ballpark estimate.
a4 %,
s f r CHAIPsid MILLER: All right, you may ask. '
O f L..
?/1 Ms. BELL:
3S O
My original question on this was whether or not this
- ,4 ,
e amount of tice was any function of what the Staff believed was t.
be f
[ necesscry to provide safety. In other words, was it a minimum 10 !
i or was it cn averace?
. _, I d
i' A It was an expectation, although I must say that in M:i h'l merely citing number of manhours, it depends ~
U l these mtnheurc, not hcw many hours you spand there. !
9 '.
h A;-
oc if it said 3,000, it depends en what you do with M
{ those canhourc that'e meaningful; not how much time you spend U iIV there.
o e s. It
,- "E O
(
w J
Well, I guess that was the general question, how 'did M !! one arrive ' at Faat number. ,
25 Y
! A
,t It was just'an ectimate so we could have an approximats ,
.g i
I
- 4058 I
x/ I '
, idea to the reader how much time a const uction expert would I.
'<. " be en site .ac opposed to the fulltime resident inspectors.
3 0 The major' bulk of the questions that I have are i 4 related -to a few questions about fire protection that are not 5 of the technical concept censiderations, but rather how the
, G project manager of the p:Lant would respond to them.
7 First of all, in the conditions, licensee conditions G of 6.2.2, page 88, Section D, regarding fire watch patrol, 9 he told us: "Shall be established whose sole responsibility 10 , chall be to make hourly inspections,"et cetera.
1 1: What is your definition'of whc.t Sole re.aponsibility" n
/
' i -
/
'~'
10 A Dy that phrase, I would take that to mean, cnd I da
\
!4 ' mean, that he would have no other duties. In other words, he 13 wouldn't be a guard who had concurrent guard duties as well as r
IG N fire protection patrol duties.
g C So whcn PGE suggects that securicy personnel night 1;; be uss$ for thic fire patrol, fire watch patrol, in your mind, 1s that neans simply that they would be individuals who were t
to en hirci for security but would be used for, solely for, fire
.I l'
y p pctrol at that time?
a r, " A Yes.
,., 3p O As project manager of the Trojan plant, how do you
- n
[
s /
- ,,- h feel about having a patrol, fire watch patrol, consisting of
\ _. '
33 [ security personnel when you' recall that there has been some J
L h
t;
4059 C
c G 1 trouble at the Trojan plant uith security perconnel using drugs ICt. AXELRAD: I object,Mr. Chaiman.
( l
. CHAIRMAN MILLER: Pardon me?
4 MR. MELRAD: I object, Mr. Chaiman. There are no 5
such matters with respect to security personnel and drugs as-
. a part of this record.
7 CHAIRMAM MILLER: That's true. What is the basis of C
the question, Ms. Bell?
9I MS. BELL: The basis of the question is that in PGE's. ..
10 the last Panel, it wac said that. . . they stated that perhaps II the fire watch patrol would be made up of security personnel C .,
2" T v hired--I believe this was under crocs-examination by the State v .-
")
i i
[ of Oregon-~ hired by PGE frem the Burns Security Agency, I I"' l{
p presume; and that those security personnel would be possibly t
15 '
transferred to doing this fire watch patrol.
16 a And I would like to know if Mr. Trammell, as the I
17 ! project managar for the Trojan plant, feels comfortable with 16 the fact that with a group of people who have experienced some I9 problems thera.as far as I would consider attitude towards 20 'i their job at the Trojan Plant, if he would' feel comfortchle i
21 f with tho::e same people, with those attitudes, being part of 6 } i
" ; an important fire watch patrol. ,
-. 22 CHAIEMAli MILLER: Well, what does that have to do l f
I
(
w E4 rith the issues before us? We're not hiring, firing, nor 25hsupervicingemployeescutthere,arewe,in'thishearing?
n-1 4
,l P s,
(
l 1
4060
(~
Ms. SELL: Well, it has to do with, first.of alb 2
the safety of the plant during modifications, and the fact that
,. the Staff felt significantly compelled to impose a condition
- f. -
on Licensee that the' fire watch' patrol would have only one 5
responsibility, that they fire watch--which would say that
, they were significantly impressed with the importance of 7
the fire watch.
CHAIRMAN MILLER:
That i.t is not a solo recponsibility?
9 Is that what you are talking about?
MS. BELL: No, I'm talking about the level of import-
' ance attached to the fire watch patrol, and their integrity.
IE CHAITGUdi MILLER: I don't see where that is in'the I3 control building modifications. I am locking at page 88, which 14 you cited. I do see the "D", which you inquired about. Then, IU '
frcs there, you seem to be getting down to personalities of 16 come kind, which I wasn't able to follow.
17 MS. EELL: I am trying to say that' condition D IC
. establishes a fire watch patrol who has one sole responsibility,.-
l 10
, , ; gcing back to what the PGE panel said in cross-e:: amination l 1 :
I0 dt yesterday by the State of Oregon. 1 1
21 What PGE is talking about having that fire watch 22 patrol consict oflin personnel. 'Now if they were to say- -
~
i y 22 { 3echt'el, I. uouldn't csk this question.
If they were to'say.
f 5
b I4 j
L PGE empicyees, I vculdn't ask thic quection.'
' 1 25 Eut when they scy " security personnel", whom we know j l
, [ o .
.s 4061 J
\
.1 J. them to have had some difficulties out there with their
~
attitudes toward the job,. I began to wonder about the safety
,.- significance of that- and whether or not, because of.that, !
4 Mr. Trammell, as project manager, will feel comfortable with
. 5. I
/ .this condition.
5 I!
, CdAIRMAN MILL.M t: We will sustain the objection. You are seeking to particularizeon the' basis of something that is s
not in evidence before us.
~
n f
that we have allowed here is discussion, examination
."*. l d as to the cafety conditions, particularly we say .2.2 fire ,
-5 i
! watch patrol. Now if you want to go into that, fine. If you p- ..>
'~
[j have got other matters that are . . .
/]
O t by another type of I '
Y
- 5 l proceeding which has been brcught to your attention by the
.. h
]fic1dboardgroups,fclicwthat. But we can't mix them up.
.t 8" !
BY MS. BELL:
s El ut 0 Mr. Trammell, did you hcVe any opinion or recom:nenda- '
I., ;l ;
.i tions on who that fire watch shculd consist of?
' g:
.c 4
A The fire watch patrol is a pretty straightforward
,d j l
- h function.. Enen we wrote that we didn't have any particular 1
'".,p people in mind, c.1though when we learded it could ce i y "4
l}l f .
d centrnetor perec ~ ' d*cm Bechtel, er others, considering the l J l
li - cimolicitv ef the tack and the minimal caount of training you . ;
- )
1
. U n .
)
- ij would have to have for this-duty, I wouldn't have cny particular 1
A v,. !!
f ,
}
(
( p s
rese: vations whether it war anybody in. part1cular. . 1- .
.i s 11
'3' I think'it wac a-straightforward job and I grant.you '
l h..
.l l
' l' <
1
3 .. . _ .
t r i
.t 4062' '
I ( it's an important one, but it is also relatively simple. .
?-
0 Regarding the licensee condition s on page 90 that ,
1 3 :
has just been added today...
4 CEAIREW MILLER:- What?'
5 MS. BELL: Minety.
r
't ,
6 BY MS. BELL: '
, l I
7 Q Are you in a position ~to answer u. question of what-9 factors the NRC Staff might see that would impact on the ;
E l decision on whether or 'not reseval would be necessary, or .
70 } l unnecessary? That is, removal of plates 1 through 6? [
i 11 u. 1 It would be hard to answer that question.without i
o i C IE ll knowing the specific circumstances that. led to the... which l ll
- q led to a drop. Imd that's what our original statement in the f:
5.j 14 j.; SEE that, in the event of a drop of plates, 7 or.8-on to l, . l u
n "tl plat 2c 1 through G, that they chould aute=atically be removed 10 night havo baen a little harsh, h
- t M l'.} 1 v
It depsnds on the circunctances and just what the, !
it o
- d nature of the drop is. And until you have a specific circum . )
+q : i
- J
! ! ", stance in frcnt of ycu, that's the best answer I.can give you. !. .
n :
E$p MS. SELL: Thank you.- We have no further questiens' !
r 4
1
- of this witness. l
'his .
i
- y, hlj MR. ALELEAD: .Shall I proceed, Mr.l Chairman?- I l
. i ;
i :
- p! ~ CHAIREM MILLEP.
- Pardon me?
c ; '
w E?.. 1CELRAD : Chall I croceed?; riidn't Ms. Bell say- ' I-L' !
---. lI'she had 'no further questions?l ma
,3
.h .
i
.i
!i l p.
i.
o
_I. ,
.d. - 4 . . ,- -+ >w --
t
4
'i 4063 fwI 1
. 'CE1!RMAN MILLER: Oh, I didn't understand that. I'm
- 2 sorryi I didn't hear,you, Ms. Bell.
3 MS. BELL: I said I have no further questions. <
4 s CHAIRMAN MILLER: Thank you.
~* :
5 '
CROSS-EXM1INATION i 6
EY E.R. AZELIV.D: (ON BEHALF OF THE LICENSEE) 7 . -
O Mr. Trammell, with respect to condition-D'in Section G
6.2.2 cf the SER at page 88, in your earlier testimony, you - ,
D indicated that the NRC Staff was not in agreement with 'the t 10 cuggested revision uhich Licensee proposed; and that you l cone:.nuec to believe any cold shutdown condition shouldn't b
12 l
stand until the plate number 8 has been set in place with I"
1.
... bolts nined en it.
3 '.-
, Can you tell ne where in the safety evcluation report
.~
q! and in the ... testinony cf the NRC Staff witnesses the 1 l
l N 4 tecimical bacis for that stand cnd position of yours? l Ul. A Yes, the baris for... uell, first of all, two areas 1)
E of review. One is Mr. Clementon in plate handling itself; ,
" ,i and tha other area is ctructural'.-
So as we progress later' -)
.u e rm b
- I todcy and tom =rrow in chece areas, the individual witneessa iln e'
- vill be able to provide scuo.cr.plification of what I an '"
i k,. 'i .
, i a. bout to give you. !
1 . ,- i
& 23
':'he bccic chutdcwn bcsis is contained on page. . .
i( b 'd I ~
24 (,1 beliavc=it is page 38.in the SER. Let ne check that. -Yes. .;
i -V ,
It ic pcragrcph number 4 on page SS, then the' discussion which ;!' !
.I. -!,
a l y :
t.
O. i p ,
- - .s,
l l
4064 1 i t precedes it. I think the basis 2.s very clearly la'id out in l 2
that paragraph.
3
/ I think the basis is not yet well laid out for cold i
4 shutdcran er moving the plate. And it is only recently that s 1 ve vere able to learn of the five bolts and the tack welding a
~
that you had in your testimony.
At the the this SER was written, by way of back- i ground, the schedule which pGE chowed for the time'to move 9
plate 8 into position, it was on the order of eight hours.
'O And giving definition as to when the plant should be in cold shutdcun, we gave some consideration to the fact t' hat it was v>
"~
cnly an cight hour period.
13 '
- e that time, though, I can give you some general 14 ,i cencernc cbcut uhy we think plate 8 should be shut down, and U. leave it to the individual witnesses to amplify that.
i t
+
- h The plate S is not seismicly qualified frcs the time i j it is lifted. 1" id not coismicly qualified, that is, while j.
P '
- .I"o it is moving across the deck. The dech itself is not j structurally qualified for cimultaneous earthquake and black i t
~# 1 drought. How you may say... j 3 .!
"I lj Q Mr. Trammell, before you proceed cny further, can you
- . 3, juct explcin, or just annwer the quection on where in the pre-
/^ S filed testimony the technical support is contained?
i Is there
[(
L l i
M lil cny pitee other than page 35 that you cited? !
i 3 J i A No, I think-that's it. page 38, Safety Values. I l -
L P-I l$
t e
t 3 4065 (m~
)]
\
1 .!
? 'Q And, so Mr. Clemenson's testimony does not discuss i ;
cold shutdown? ,
l , A (No response.) .
4 -
CHAIR!G.N MILLER: Do you know, Mr. Trammell?
o l ,
THE WITNESSj I will have to look and see. I don't 6
believe# it does but, obviously, Mr. Clemenson will be on 7'
shortly. He can igal:L you whether it is in there.
8 IG. GRAY: It does discuss cold shutdown. Mr.
c.
Clemenson is directly concerned with when the plate is being 10 incerted in the slot. As to the question on how many bolts do c
you want in there, that is a matter which Mr. Herring will be A i ' *2
( addrecsing.
13
,j The reccen it is not already written down on paper is t,
l the five belt proposal, Ibelieve, is fairly recent. And we I
15 j had to take c. lock et that the five bolts will be sufficient.
't MR. IJCLRAD: All right, fine. To the extent that I
...- t a wouldn't want to ask any quections with rerpect to the view of 10 the adequacy of five bolts, Mr. Herring would be the. witness '
IS I would ask abent that. )
1 D] ' y I have no further questions. J l
,, , i i
} l
- CHAIE2GN MILLER
- Dr. McColicm, would you care to i j i . I -l
_ j interrogate? Eas everyone had an opportunity to examine? - 1 M
UU (no recponse) .
E? DR. ICCCLLOM:
2#' 1 25 !!, O I guess I would like to get, for a minute,.back to the i
e
?
k n.
a
\
4066 O)
(
s- / t i inspection. That paragraph 4.9 in'the SER, it appears to me- '
1 3
is a little vague in the sense that the paragraph says it is .
I 150 hours0.00174 days <br />0.0417 hours <br />2.480159e-4 weeks <br />5.7075e-5 months <br /> of inspection; it sort of implies, because it 4
, doesn't say otherwise, that that's both the local inspector 5
and constructio'n in,spector.
6 And that doesn3t make a lot of sense.
7 A -
If it implies that, it wasn't intended.
C a 1 This was strictly input from the construction specialist in a -
t Region V on the general deceriptionof the type of. inspection
.10 .
program they would be doing.. l 11 ,
l (~ q, The least we coul." do, it seems to me, is add to it:
(,_
- n. 12
,. "for the construction insp.tetion", so you would know it did not 13 h incledt the resident inspector as well.
Y 14 I A That is correct. Yhe resident inspector. . .
15 there arel two of them, the resident ins?cetors will be at the job site 13 f, lj every day for a period of time, at leact. And, in particular' ",
i 17 I
'I i they uill bc on the job at ant prior and during times when we !
.- l
. m , !
t w
have indicated, reccmmended, that the resident inspector be l b.,i ii given authority which he doec not nornally have--for_ example,
( }
21 tl to halt the work if dust is encoccive; to halt the work' tempor-l '
! crily if noise is ercessive. f i
s 22 - l '
j
23 Q Uou this precupposes that interim operation continues i}
_[ -
L'-
during the pcried of cenctructioni doecn't it, Dr._Trammell? l
( : ! !
A- '
I' would thinh, yes.
25 q.c l
0 What was the estimate about a year, or'something like i
. \
f' 4
I
e l
l P
r\ \ 4067 1
that, for the work to be completed?
2 The modification as projected.
3 1.
4 It was,almost 10 months, yes, sir. I would say the 5 concarns about dust do not go away if the plant is shut down.
So is far as noise in patroling them, obviously, you have b
7 a n.mpler case of operating the plant when there is not much
- go .ng on.
,, 9 l
0 .!t But as to the concerns about dust and the operation 1
!G l :;#1aya, and so forth, in the electric aus:illary even, it s:
, y 6 een't help a lot to have the plant shut down; although there i,
. u . . . ,
are some motors which can be shut down which'would tend to
)
gj p> a.nimize circulation, 73 i 14 i!'
But we have se.fety ccncerns when the plant is shut i
- b;m, 1.s well.
u 15 P } l i-I!
CHAIR!iAM MILLER: Involving dust?
1G H
! THE WIT!TESS: Yes.
17
!j CHAImiAN MILLER:
- 'C t
e Is the remedy any.different when a
. M.
i plant i:, in a state of cold ehutdown vertus when it is in k '
j operati:n?
1:
2G 1h mg WIT:ESS: .
^?
b No, about.the' scme factors. As I say,
~'
e
'~'"
1 thoro E.2o some moters and fans v.hi,ch would not need to operat
}tostirthingsupworse. hat's about the only difference.
- ; i j! CEAIMIAN ICLLER:
" ': e
- It's not like a battleship. You m.f ii Orn r.o'iiball it and cover it up with plastic,and it's non e the t
wore?. for waar.
I)
U i
I
tr.
,l .
4068 I
13l 1
THE WITNESS: That's not like that, that's right.
?-
CHAIRMAH MILLER: Mr. Paxton...
(No response) .
4 CHAIP2AN MILLER: I believe that's all. You may be 5
excused. Well, for this portion of your testimony. I-,
. understand you are a member of a panel, subsequently, Mr.
7 '
Tramme'll.
8 (MR. GRAY ) Mr. Chairman, we have a slight problem.
o
~ .
Can I request a bench conference to indicate that .off the 10 record?
r-11[ CHAIR!!AN MILLER: Yes. We have a judge's chambers 8
' 12 '
( t back here. Do you need a court reporter for this conference?
( U MR. GRAY: No, it is nothing private; it is a matter I4 of a sich witness. It doecn't affect this next panel but I e
r 5 h.i would like to indicr.te to the Board the problem.
.- i CHAIRMAN MILLER: Well, we'll recess and you meet us bl 8'
l in chambers.
70
. MR. GRAY: Or wc can do it right here.
to" DR. !~CCOLLOM:
, Ue don't mind. It depends on how much
,,, i i ,
lj privr.cy you want.
N 21 ' (Whereupon, a be.nch conference vas held off the E'I record.)
- e. Li
[ g eg. 8_
i l
V '~ t !
F.5 -
' f) 1.
t
.{
w i
l t, ,+-
'n,tripu 10 i..
a- 5 4069 i
,s ,
33-1 j, MR..McGURREN: If the Socrd please, at this time 2 ..
- 1s billie I would ask lir. Jrens. 2. Knight, and Fred Clemensen to take 3
! the stand and be. sworn. .
WHEREUPON,
~
- JAtiES E. ICs'IGHT AND FRED CLEMENSON S;i .. .
wara called as witnesses by the Staff, having been first I
duly sworn, were examined and testified as follows:
60 ff DIRECT EXAMINATION h
S ij 3rFR.hkcGURREU:
o IG }i}t Q Would you please' state your nces, title, and '
Il ;iP afdiliation? . . . . . . . .
,m
- 2 A v .
i (r. night) ~ Uy pana l's Jar es E. Knight.
I am 13 ceployed with the Nuclear Esgulatory Com.ission in Washington, la I!
D.C.,asaseniorelectricElengin.eerintheSystematic k 15 i
, 2 valuation Program branch. I'm responsible for all the I si
'16 'i :t h' oversight of the electrical instrumentation and contrW h! ,
17i!l reviews.for those plants. . ;.
'O l} A (Clemensen) t, My nane, is Fred Clemenacn. I an a .i t-te l senior syctems analyst. I work in Plants Systems Branch of d ; ,
20 30 DOR, the Nuclecr Regulatory Commission.
i !
2' !l t In the Trojan review, I've looked'at heavy load
~~
22 .
l handling, dust, noisc, ' vibration, and missiles generated 'by 3
-; Isl ccnstruction work.
ji i
( 14 ;;; .
4 -
Q 3avo each of you ptrticipated in the preparation
~
25 p of testi=cnv entit1ec[ "NRC Staff Testimony of' Fred. Clemencen f
..__-!.. \
l '
. l
.jn 4070 .
j l !
i j'andJcncsY.nightregarding!cdificationWorkandEffectson f 2 l
.a i Plant Operation on Safety-Related Eeuipment," which has been !
~
i marked Staff *Enhibit 14 for identification?
4 .
A (T. night) - Yes.
l-Q .
Does the Staff Exhibit 14 for identification have. _
attached to it your professional qualifications?
7 A (rmight) Yes.
'f D
Q lt-'. Tx.ight, on behalf of the panel, would you
- r. t
~ ,,
D please indicats d5 ether thare are any additions or correc-10
- a' tions to Sttff Exhibit 14 for identification? l
(
II [ A (F. night) Well, the first one 's on page 9, under l' ' g-- ..
[( ite.c 7 at the bette:c of the page. In the brackets where 13 it days, "nc," it should say, "one cable tray."
M ,
Q a So would you read that sentence as correct, or 13 item 7 cs corrected? i 10
! A (Teight)
._ n The east wall of the eletrien1 auxiliary u n '
rcenbetweenele$$tiens65feetand77 feet, in brackets,
- 13
.I one cable tray near the vall, one electrical cabinet near IE' j the wall and --
4 !' l 20 !
Q ~ Thank you. !
2.1 ' . Arc thche any other errors - corrections?
I II ?. (re.ight) Nes,the,secondcorrectionispage20.
j-22 il '
This is to clarifv, under item Enswer No. 27, f
24 N. .
~
}.
botten of the p gs, in the second sentence, in. the third '
25 l' line between the and work at the end of the line there, you 1 , .o
)
should insert "pa:-t$culate mattar generated by the modificatic::L " .
r . .
[. .
__ --L=------- - - - - ~ - ~ - - - ~ - -__ u -. }-
T w a
l 4071 '
! l
/7 I :
I I'll read it: "Io protect the equipmsnt in the
,a
- electrical curiliariec room from the particulate mattor '
i
.Y l I lganeratedbythemodificationworkofcolur.n41-r,"andso
/
on.
5 0 Are there any other corrections?
~
5 A (nni.ght[ I have no other corrections.
i 7l MR. McGURREN: May I have.a second, Mr. Chairman?
5!. CEnIRNikMIbLER: Tes. N j i .
MR. KNIGHT:
E !:'l u _ . .
There is one o-Lher correction in that l I
- U sara paragrcph J.-27, I overlooked it.
i li CHAIRMidi MILLER: Okay.
,es C i t.
l)' MR.KUGHT: Third line from tha bottom.
13 CEAIRIdhMIbER: Which page?
i 1.". !,! MR. miIGIIT: Page 20, third line frem the bottom, e
- s ! uhera it acys, "A sir.ilar, cross off "a similar," and put i
- i 16 ,! "r.n enclosure" therc. l l
i ,
i
,7 LY MR. McGURRUK: !
Ij mhie Q Thza how wc$15 thEt senteuce read? ,
p .. . .
. 1 A (I'e_ight) "If such work ik necesicrv in th? control 79;i,l!l . . _ .. . . . . . . . ..
room er cable-cprenning rob =, an enclosure vill be provided 20} ]!there as well."
l 21 l
- i 21j 0 ,
Thcnk you. }
j; ._.. .. ! l
. 23 f Do you have any other additions er corrections? j l p y .__ -.
l
[ If, i Is ycur testimony. Str.ff 2=hibit 14 for identifi- j L l- ._ ..
I g,e, - cation, tr e and correct te the best of your knowledge, l-1 e- 1 l j i 1 i
V
_____3_
.i j 4072 e
/m Dn- . l inforrt.ation cnd belief? 2 , A (Knight) It is. l 1 Q Now, Mr. Clemenson, I know you started to describe 4 - . . the area of your review, and the part you played in the 5 . . . . . . preparation of your testimony. Could you repeat that again, ;- g . . Mr. Clemenson? A (Clemenson) My scope of review was handling.of .,p c~ . . . . l hea';y locds, the generation of noise, dust, vibration and 4
s il .j p ij s fety equipment.- t ;i ' G ' u n
- r. O Mr. Clemenson, did you review these new =cdifications; i.
- y "
i 1 A (clemensen) Yes, within the scope of my reivew ' , t l J . !
, 4 i b .
.1 9
4
! 4076 l
/~'N !
l Cn-8 I did.
! j 2 And what did each of you conclude?
Q 3 A I found that there was nothing presented 5.n the 1
~'
4 new modifications that differed from that that I had l 5 previously reviewed. By that I mean, different in nature C then what I had previously reviewed, and, therfors, I found 7 it e.cceptable, with the samo conditions as I had reviewed ) 6 en other areas, similar creas.
&l 0 (Pr. Knigt? What did you conclude?
"~
N A (I'. night) I found this to be true also,.that there l .
- vas nothing now from what we had already reviewed, and that b
U 12 there was no reason that these new locations i
's would procent any problema as far as affecting the health }
t i i4 cnd safety of the public during the' modification work. J i ! 75 O Mr. Knight, does the licensse have a training l
] 2. . . i 16 progrcm for the workers who will be involved in the sodifi- !
l
!7 '
cation work t:htt describes actions that must be taken'in l
. 1r ) emergency situations? -
l
- i. l
,Yes, he does. . 19 A 3[ I Q And do you knew where those are described in'.the
{ aI cpplicant's testimony which is Licenses'o Exhibit 277 i L, s. 4 I 22 d A (Knight) These are descr.Lbed on page,77 of ' i
' t 23yl - the Licenase 's nonstructuul '.tidtimony, E:tibit 27.
l Q q ,31 . O Do you believe this training is adequato? l j l i
- I' j
25 f! A (Knight) Yes, I do. L . . , j.
. ,l 0' .And what is the basic for your belief that . ; _i i
.I s .
a . a
F 4077 ' t o i II n i
\J in9 < i.
I ti 1 i p it is adequato? ;
. 1 4 a
- 1 A (1011ght) Well, the licensee has, first of all, ,
~
; l't '
I the requirement as to what he'.s to do is very simple. n' ) [ The workmen is si:nply to leave the arec and go ' I 5i - l to the information training conter, and this is being a 6l
; very si=ple action, it doesn't require a great deal of
-i
/l detail of instruction, And in the training films that the .
'l l licenses hc.s, he has given direction to each employce to a do this. In addition, there's a cupervisor who is aware of l t
ic U j theco things and he will also direct any employees as to i
- 1; t
whct no do in an ccergency situation. f Q (u , . ( ,- f *- j Q l'r. Knight, is there e concern thct essential
'.'~?'i! +=
equip:, ant eculd be adversely affected by vc11 degradation f Jl . - i1 cn the r line wcil between columns 51 and 55 in the second i i
<e I '
q ctory of the centrcl building?
'4 ' ,
s A (Itiight) No. As a result of n valk-thrcugh that a
... j .
q I made just recently, I found that there was no safety- i' h
'c' '
i related equipr.ent located in thoce areas. i
- s m 1
il ( 0 Bnced upen your above additional testimony, do l
', q sach cf you want to change your conclusions in your written ;
l d g tactincny with regcrd to CTSP cententions 12, 13, 15, 16,
" ;, and 177
/^'s I2 H A (IS11ght) No.
;i
',~' , ,. 1 --
** hp A (Cicc.ansen! No.
i MR. McGURIEN: Mr. Chairman, that's all the additiontt.
... . I
- ? .
U t
l i
> n; 4073 !
I ' direct that I hcVe. Thispanel is available for cross-1 eranination. ! { 3 CHAIK:WI MILLER: All right. The State of Oregon. j
'I CROSS-EXAMINATION :
{ 3 BY KR. OSTRANDER: -
, 4 l
6 Q Our first question relates to a staten.ent made t i l 7, en pcge 47 of your testimony, in answer No. 58, which con-t ! 4 0[ carns ths , hoist cnd other equipment used to lift heavy f il __ .. . loads. ' ll ll - i 10 ij A (Clemenson) What page? I h . . p ... ... ' { r 11 ' Q Page 47, question and' answer 68. (% (" 12
~
The last two settences of the firct paragraph on g o {] I 13 !! that page state that,. . "25-ton . shackles will be employed for I
, i
. i 14 !. making all attachmente, therefore, for the heaviest plate l l h i i,5 lj the load on the she.ekles will be clightly mor2 than one-half e,
11 I m ll of the rated capacity of the shackloc." E:: plain how this. 4
;+
g p; statsmant ic correct when the heavient plate was 47,000 I I I g . 1 [c \1j pounds, and the rated capacity of the shackle is 25 tons or l i i
+
19 50,000 pounds?
. 1 l
to A (Clemanscn) Excuse me for a minute. I think there
- l. - i l
1; [i tre tvo chcchles for the two-legged clings, so that, in effect,! ! i n each of shackles being two would carry essentially half a ! ! 1 ee
-' i load. i, I
A g c ! ! 6' d 2 0 Do.you went c. moment to review that?
-l
t IS Is.thct your answer? I . .
; 1
~
7 4079 f f n n-11 ( l A a (Clemenson) I'd like to verify what I just said. l j 1 2 I stand corrected. There's one 25-ton Welwis 1 3 . alloyed master-link shackle or link, excuse me. 1 4- So' the f actor of safety is '-- the factor of.
~
5 safety'wouldbeskightlythan1sincetheweightofthe
, 6 plate is 47,000 pounds and the shnchie is rated for 25 ton 7 uith a factor of safety of 6.
E ' O okay. 9 This is a somewhat involved question and I'm going , i 10 to read some. "In studying margins between loads and t
,_ 11 lifting equipment capacities, is it appropriate to include l 12 the safety factor of 5 between the rated capacity and the 13 , ultimate design capacity of equipment, or is this safety
;,4 alrecay committed to account for dynamic effects, equipment 33 design on certcin ease and load calculations, equipment g degradcticn within lifetime, and so forth?"
\
77jv A (Clemenson) It is general,1y not cited. The
. p;, margin with respect to ultimate but rather with respect to' - 19 ,1 - rated load. !
- I l t 20 4 Q Does that mean no? I, j . . . . .
gj j A (Clemensen) Correct. !
- t. . . . .. '
2; i[ Q Is the NRC Staff satisfied that sufficient margin i 23 exists, especial wi respect to the lift of the 47,000 j
, ~. .
$v) .. . !
w~ 4 nound plate and the harduare associtted uith it? f 25 A (Clemenson) 1"ith respect to the guidance that ,I 1
, :(
em . i t
/ 12- J 4080 i U 1 e= ploy in heevy load handling on all plant reviews, I think l
~
2 that the plate handling operations or heavy load ' 3 operations at Trojan meet our requirements, and yes, I
~
4 think they are acceptable.' Does the sEms safety 'factam of 5 also exist for
~
5 0 f
. 6 the struptures t$ which the lifting equipment attaches?
7 A (Clemenson) I would defer to Kan Herring, because
. B that's a structuE51 question that I can't answer.
9 Q This norning we asked a question of the licensee's 1 0 i.i panel after listening to Dr. McCollen's interrogation on I.. - 1; p the plate installation sequence, and essentially we asked
,s (~
whether the dollies shown en drawing RSK-2 -- Io you have 52 ( l' that in front of you? ts ;', 14 A (Clauanson) Yes, I do. , l m .!
- , O 17hich were attached to dollies with one c-cla=o
~
- ?
79 each -- tha plates that were attached with one c-clamp.
;7 !. DocsthebnCst$ffbelievethatthemethodofattachment .
.c by using a c-clamp gives the necessary assurance that the ,
i i i
;p j '
plates will stay attached? I l ! 2c A (Clemensen) I was going to peint out that I don't i 21 l know that the drawings says one 0-clamp. It shows one,.but p gg li I don't feel particularly uncomfortable with one e-clamp-
, because r don't quice und:rstand where a lateral load would 7-~s -
a
\_s v. .!!,
cause the plate to cause the clamp to beccme icose. : I uG
.?urthar, if the clamp were to come locsc, it would '.
j I , i
'l.
I 3 u
+l . . !
l 1 I Q 4081. ,
\s_,jn13 l
. 1 8
L be inclined to fall dcun, it would appear to ma, in such ! I o - 1 1 2 a fashion to restrict.tha plate from falling. l 3 l
! 0- If you could refer back to your testimony, question '
2 and answer 21 on page 17.
- This relatos also to PG&E -- PGE --
5 question and answer G5 on velding in the cable-spreading S ! Iccc. Does the NP.C Staff believe that it is necessary to j 7 j weld in the cable-spreading room at all? Or is there a way ]
!* i 0' toavoid it?
}
l l P j, A (Knight) Well, I don't think that that questica i!
'i 10 h is pcrticularly,iS my line. I presume that it's necessary b i ii
-- ;; D to do the wolding in there, otherwise they wouldn't be
/~'h k_ ' I i
s ) 17. doing it. It's necessary to weld your beams together and ; i
!.9 i; the rewire together to strengthen the control building, to h
14 i
,1 increase its seismic capability, otherwise I don't balieve 1
15 l they'd be doing any such work. i J < r
;C l: O What did you maan by caying, "it's not in your e
l .- . . . 17 4 line" ? j i
~ i !
is ;; A (Knight) Wall, this prchably would be more in j 4 i i t. j Zen Ecrring's line of responsibility. But just from a l. 20 reasonable understanding of the thing, I think it's true l 2; uhat I scid. i 2; O Have you done an evaluation of whether or not there
.3 .
is anywcy to cveid weldine from insido out?
- Or whether the
\s_// 2,; j work can only be done froni the cutside in? Or whether the !
F
;g I work can cnly-be done from the inside?.
l i l '. O
n jr T4
! 4082 f
[ l f s o i G i .
~
I l A (Knight) 'I have not done any such -- no. n ' O Do you 5now ~5f !!r. Herring has? 3 -_ .. I
?. (dnight) I don't know whether he has or not. j t1 You can refer to pago 64 of Ezhibit 14, question l 5 '
and answer No. 98. 6 1
. . i j
l And this relates also to PGE question and answer 57 7 .. _
, )
we discussed yesterday concerning missile protection in ! ] S 'l N the cable-spreading rocn, essentially. s ee . . 0 Cur question is: Is the NRC Staff satisfied with ! 10 il ... .. ! O t!w licensee's response to cur questions yesterday at { m ;s (~N\ (~; ; - tre area of influence for missiles is a few feet.
} .I A (Clemenson) Insofar as missiles generated l i 12 l; .. .
l q bl construction equipment, yes, I believe that their ' it t . . j o.'nter was acceptable . ;
! 15 i i Q Is the NEC staff satisfied with their answer that l if [I I
. . . . . . I t
!.rotection of the cable trays will be left to the judgmant !.
!/ I !
{ a. the suparviser on the job? $ 1C i. 1 A (Clemenson) Yes. .! if -. Q As I recall the NRC directive or order read by ! 2C l 1.0 -- cne of the merbers of the panel this morning fron l 21 :l _ !t A .0, the protective measures for' fire in the control -- i d i 22[M it'the cable-spreading room also included dabris from missilesf j u !: . . . . ! ni things like that,, is that correct?
\
L 2<.:
's,' . <
y A (Clemannen) Would you repeat ~that, please?- ' s \ 23 ) --- .. . i
;- 0- That was really an awkward question, I l_
]
) , _ . . . . . . . .-
i_ t-
, t i(; - _ . .I .
4083
%.=
3n-15 .i ; cm corry.
- p. The NRO directive that -- or order that was read
' I 3 by Mr. Erickson this morning concerning firs protection 4 measures in the fire protection plan, as I heard Mr.
i 5 Erickson read it, it involved some. sort of missile protection l 3 also, is that right? Is there any reference in that plan 7 to missile and debris protection?- ! 3 MR.-McGURREN: I believe counsel is referring to j g PS-7. 40 MR. OSTRANDER: Yes. ! i r
! - ... l
,1 MR. McGURRIll: And I don't have it before me. l i (V) .. but I think that perhstps Jim Knight does have a part of that t
!3 before him. ,
i , g MR. KNIGHT: As far as PS-7 goes, it's a procedure j l-h . .. ; I that covers cutting, wetding, grinding, that sort of thing. j.
,, h,l o.
l i
.. I But I dcn't halieve it acntions anything about missiles. !
wl l
~ I. . EY MR. OSTRMID.U'.: !
" ll , _ _ ...
! l l
Q So cutting, we Xing, and grinding doesn't include ! l e,
] . chipping concrete? l
{' is i h -
! A (Knight) That vouldn't be included in that.
.:.v n!
y . . . . . h 0 It's just things.that generate sparks or other -- i 21 e A (Knight) Yes. ! 2P. !! ; j! i 4
- 0. Okay.
. ? ,' '
l 25 : (~ Yestorday afternoon the PGE panel anewered some .
- . .:c. - - - . . .
, f questicas concerned with trie: ting the concreta slab and '
1
..I-
._ g . = -
f. p { 4064 N.f 1 il ', we'd like to know, is the If?.C Staff satisfied by ths proposed c 2 planking and tray covers uccid provide adequate protection 3 if some.o1 that concrete fell? 4 ;. p A (Clemencod) I thin.ti, if I can recall, I'm ts.1 king 5 _ about Jin Knight's' theory, I believe. The covers that they S . .. j propose to use over the cable trays were to withstand 7
, somathing on the order o5 200 pounds, 190 pounds washers 0 ,
i
+ -dropped from a height of three feet. The construction work n I
~
of cutting the flanges and the curb, and I believe that 10 occure at the elevation in the turbine building, at elevation
!1 . .
(]j p 93 and cicvation 59. .
, I do not foresee the likelihood of a part that's l 13 -- -. i cut off weighing mers than that emotmt, and, therefore, I l 14 . . I I-
-- I hava not run calculations.on the weight. l..
15 - . i (T. night) A Let me say this, that I lochef at the !
!S '
o dropping of the plate washers in the areas where cables
. i.'
i could be affected by that, and the licensee did perform an ( 73 j analycis which -- of the drop of washer essentially on its ,
' l 1D sl ..
j, corner peint, anc this analycis indicated that there was i
>., n, i
no danage result:.ng trem that, from the drop which was >
~
i . I h actually r,crs than three feet. I have not locked at the
.n i -
{- t i ccncrets brackage. But clso in connection with this, the. j l u , ae !! O
. I
" f licansce had ccamitted to erovide olanking~ cn the --- let's ' i i
I N 2 r: 0
, .ces.-- to protect the cable trayo frem -- and that he would
. 'I n .
"g
- e. I '
d ' tsct the planking by dropping by dropping this piece of ! tj' - , l
- t. j.
1 . _ . - ,-
r ( ^ 317 4005 j G I steci plate on here, and that if the planking was damaged 2 severely in any way, that he would add.another layer of 3 planking, presumably he would do this until he had sufficient 4 planking that it could not possibly affect the cables. 5 I presume that the same kind of measures will be . 6 taken in the are[wheEs concrete could possibly irnpact the , 7 cable trays". B Q Wnere's that ocm:nitment that the licensee made, 0 j anduhatdoesiE~r'elcEcto. It relates to wachers'only? I 10 t A ,JEnight) There are a number of places where the 11 licensee talks U$ut this. PGE, September 5th, question'10'c. ' e r i (\ 12 and d, I den't have a ecpy of that right here with me.
\
11, 1 As a response to question 10-c and d. Also there I M l is another August 13,'i979, question 9, and PGE, November t is } Sist, '79. All are related to this problem. j i. 13 , O Tc sum up your testimony then, you have not done I p !j analysis of the affects of concretc falling on planking or ; i,
. m j the cable trav covers from the trim:ner? '
I l ja if.1 A (Knight) No, I have not. I Il tof Q Is there any connitment within your knowledge L 21 .! on the licensse's par $ to -- a testing pregrcm for the plank-I. : 22 I ing under the concrete similar to the testing program for ! h' .
- ,t g ll the washcrr? i
( i : Q) 2t n (Knight) I don't know of any. i
.%.. Q Envc you excmined the work procedu:es or other !
dll 1
.d- !
1 1
l i .,
. l
?.
p I-i p g 4086
; l l
N 3 \ jnlS cdr.inistrctive pr.ocedurec that would be utilized by the j L [ y
~p licensee during the cutting of the concrete? '
a A (Knithgt) I have not beenuse we didn't review "
~
that area. l
^ ;
A (Ciccanson) No. No more than I have reviewed 0 the procedures en cutting of concrete in the walls of the ; 7 electrical au::511 cry room or in the railroad bay at elevation
,i 45 feet.
I ,
~
9 ' . I O D6 you believe that there should be a direct, M : and specific ucrk procedure that would lim 4t the sico of ' e II thd pcasible concretc fre.gments?-
'- 11 A (Cleransen) It certainly is in the direction of j
13 l s c.fety. 3:. fora I would say I think it should be done, ;
\ \
^
14 !i I wculd want to cit down and cciculate the weights and ' 1 i ~ ll co:pute the dropouts. 11 M HR. CSTRAUDER: We have no further questions, "7 " r.r. Chr.irn.nn.
. W CHAIrliAU MILLER: Thank you.
f
- 4 Intervenors7 l l li . - - .__
cad jn U.' 4 h P rue fic. ?. ; j ' l' { 7.2 g{ j 1 n 1
-i O ;- - [
G u n
,I z
n .
,, s. ~
t 4087 e I I ( l i L CROSS EZAMINATIOS BY 2C. DELL: 2 Q First of'all, on Page 23 of the SER, the bottom 3 sentance doca not carry over onto Page 24, or at least not 4 on my copy and I was vendering what the end of that sentence 5 was. I do not believe that fir. Tra"mell gave it in his 6 corrections. 7 A (Knight) Excuse ma. I did not quite understand S your question. O Q Page 23 of the SER, the very last sentence. 10 A (Knight) The very last sentence. Do you have 11 Pcye 23 A, which is the nent page? I r Ov 1; Q no, I guess that is 1(nat my problem ic. U ( is ll-CHAIIG.AU MILL 2R: There was a ccrrection cheet t.1 ! t ' eent ont which added 20 A, I'think that that r.ay be it. I w i,
. MR. GRh! Yes. That is what, actually, Staff's h
g }1 Enhibit 13 E was, it did havo those cor:cetion sheets in it. E} ; 37y '
!?.. .'IIIGr.0: I can read thtt for you, if you lihe?
, 10 MS. BELL: No, that is all right. I'just read the
~
, 10 lact pcrt of that sentence.
20! BY 315. 3 ELL: I
.I :I 21 }t Q Wac there any probcbility of ci::e -- I am referring d !:, to the third paragrcph on Page 23 that says, it is therefore
- t. .f
% 7
.n g unlikely that one of the condunnts would be contacted. Was - t l
p i ( y 1 there any prohnbility or signe Of that likelihood?' ' I
.,,,. l g I:. (T.E.ight) .- EO there UcS no' probability. It is juSt',f
'. i I
! __ __ .___.___ _ ___ _ --- =------- i '
n, f g )1 4088 L I My opinion based on the 9,: an assessment in this situation. 3 info.. ation at hand. 4 nre you aware, basically, of what the cables in 0 4 thoce condunnts are for? 5
- A (Knight)
Yec, I am. ; I. 6 i Q could you tell ms? 7 t A (Kf.nght) Well, they are for the neutron ::enitoring I : , f &
~
C i system and the affect -- vall, that is uhat they are for. i
? ji? Q Are thsre two redundant sets of cables in that -- !
t 1 10 fi uoll, it says, there are two conduants, each containing two l
- i. .-
,, li d ccbles. Are those two conduants redundant? t
't" .
f' - 1E [, (w A (Kinght) They are, but there tre other once also; I e 7 j is thct is not all of them. . f4 . g' ). t 14 f - C Coule you toll me the difference betue n fire ! t, l ' 15 h,. rets:dancy and fire -- c.nd calf entinguishing? l .' 13 , A (Knight) Well, fire retardt.ncy is the chility of , f i/[: a material to retard the inititte cf a firo. and the self- f
. n 10 lll'.extincticn characteristics von 1d be given ths.t a fire tas .
p - 1 cut. 11cd to a ciece of r.:terial, the captbility of that l 10 (4
, s 20 ". cz crial to self-extinguich once the. fire is removed. t.
.i 1. .
E !!n For instance, ses, if I had a blou-torch cnd I put i. h i il 1 it on a piece of material and it.ficmed up and then I removed I m n i the torch, and the self-entinguishing chcracteristic would be.. pm \ . t. l
-~, h, hcw well it did celf cxtinguish it. -
t , e
)
35 I G I am swcre of;a certcin times that are given to [ H . .t li
- 4 l N I
l
.h .
s
l l o
.. . - . s e
o i l f . 4089 R
- l l things that aro fire retardant. For instance, a three-hour i
P. We barrier or something like that. Would self-extinguishing "i is there any kind of' time in which -- a time frang in Ohich 4 4 you would hope that a material would be self-extinguishing? ; 5 A (nnight) Well, presumably there are some tests ! C ij that accociate with this idea of time, however I do not know 7 uhat they are. I s I, O Is there any code thet you could reference as to 1, .. 9 0a ifnat the ICC considers acceptable for celf-extinguishing? 10 ! A (Knight) t!o. j
- c. ;10 0 Alec, it caems to me thct there is, let us see. l D
jf l
- >.d on Page 14 in the 1 cat pcragraph, there is reference to Y. .
g.: i , pctentic.11y cc bustible materials, cuch as the instc11ation . l lE on instc11cd electric 1 cables and I believe elsewhere, there u li 11 ' 7, g has been referonce to comething called celf-c=tinguiching n ' 4 [ cable installation. Could you clarify to me if there era two l
-d kinde of installation -- cable inctallation that one would.
/a
'I
- g. [ find ct the. Trejan Plant? One that is self-extinguiching or ; l
- I I g ,ti rettrdant anf one that is potentially comhuathle? {
p; i a (n iight) I can read to you fr:tn the Fire Protectionj II
. i
.. y Safety Evaluational P.spert, of my Staff, regcrding that mattera, 4
i
!- iflit would help.
1,1, At leact,'it is the extent'to my knowledge' . ;
- e. 1 j ...
#'# !!' of the inctt11ation. Tho stattnent here is thet the. cable d' jf .
j .j h 'incts.112tien used 'in' a. plant conaicts mcinly of polyethelene' (1?
...n... ,
l
.t. . ,
r cnd ethelene . (?) propane. j. The -- with neoprene or hypen-(?}-
- 4. . ... -
1 1
- ll- jachoting, ,.if i 0 '
'. f .- .
3
i l' 7 b t
]l 4090 y ji
.c -
1! , t Now, the testa, as far as the hyd:gleed (?) test, when in 2 cnistenea at the time of the Trojan purchase of their cable, a s yet they did require their cabling to be tested. I think it i j 1 was the testimony of the liicansee to the effect that their 5[ cabling was tested. I believe the test was IPCEA Standard 6j S19-El. The conclusion of the Staff vegarding the cables 7 Were that those flame test connected by Trojan showed that Gj' the cable burned reluctantly. And that the -- in the con-L
- fl figurations that ara ured in the test, the Staff, as far as t.
ta t j the Staff providing any basis for not providing fire protectio 2 I _ i, p ~ n or what have you, was not taken into concideration because ( (2 N
- m. Il cables are not found in the configu:;.ations in the plant as n I they cre in the tas:
.I and I think you will find that to be j.3 t'
i true with I tripple E 383 Test as well. h in "p O I So, that the term burns reluctantly is what you i y lI i I are referring to when you ccy potentially combuctible mat-er i 9 crails such as inctc11ation en cables?
- it
;,3 h A (Knight) l' Well, when ve say burns relucently, va 3a n
tg metn thtt it is iifficult to get started and to keep burning g [ in the configuration i I
!?
that were used in the test. g; Li i { Q on Page 25 of the SER, again, which is talking about 3g 0
. trainad fire watch being, equipped with fire ertinguishers or ,
If
; g3 .
horse in the work'arca, and I was wondering if you could ( 3 l indicate to un stether or not, whether those fire entinguisher 33 IlI uculd be water er chenical or do you have both at precent? 1 l j ' I .. .
. J ..
w i
- h !
(m)
!io "Si Well, the fire watch would have available
} 1. (rcight) J 2 to him, carbon dioxide and dried chemical extinguishers and ii
; jli as well as hoses which are located close by. So, at hand i, 2 c, I a a sure he would probably have a CO extinguisher first.
5 Q Turther on dotm that first$ paragraph here, it l 6 says that in addition the Licensen has cc::clitted to remova 7 wood and foreign materials prior to commencement of any t
.; i uc1 ding or cutting operations, et cetera. Is it yo=r under- <
Si 1
., , j standing th:.t thosa weed foreign materials would be treated i
- i. . hil with fire rotardant chemicals? !
1. _ .; p'l A (F. night) No. J.ny of the wced foreign natcrials .
,e s i' 'foich vill be used to divide the forms for the concrete that
( 3. 2
..i i ..
ic going to be poured will net ba fire retardant becausa of i l Il. l the possible degradetion affects that may' result frc the v ll
.y j- cha=icals that are inherrent in any coding that would make
.. p ,
,1
- g [I a uced firs prcof -- fire retardant.
H '
- 3. ..p1 Q So, yould you say in general when the phrase
. ;;t unod form is referred to that they are still talking about a n
!; t
.!j wood forn for concreto pouring. Okay.
F
.. ,, p!
O aeferring to the fira -~ fire protecnica blanhet l
.i '
t j th t will ha used. Are you aware of who did the original '
.f H
7.., ij qualification test for the blanket and if these tests have a . ,
,., O be rer.ffirmed by the NRC's fire protection program? ! ;
(N s _4 : g A (Taight) As far as I know, the NRC does not have l j any list of fire blankets that are acceptable and- f l C :, ; J
]
l I
,L. ! l
't n I
l v *
.. suvI .,
( i
\ ,
1 non-acceptabic. So, obvicusly, these would-not either ' O conform or not conform to that list because they do not 1 hcVe one. If you'.a.re concerned, what is your concern? ; 4 CHAIIUGS MILLER: You answer - are you answering ; 5 the question now or are you -- you are going a little bit ' . S beyond. i l 7 t MR. KNIGHT: Well, restate the question. S;, CFAIPJiAN HILLER: Ycu do not hr.ve to volunteer -- e I ' bi SY MS. EELL: li
- Clo Q Mell, deec the NRC then decide on the basis of what the manufacturer is testing shows four or'five bland )
kets? U
' li.
. t 1; i A (Knight) What we did in this case was to send the
;c } information that was available c.nd both of these materials ,
1 i ,= j- to a firs censultent and hcd him give us his opinion ~as to I I g j;l uhsthar or not these materials would provide adequate i l gj protection, and he did co, affi matively. ; c 9 - g (l Q Do you know, off hand, who that fire consular.nt vas?' , t V ic A (I* night) 2 cm sorry. I did not hear that. n . to HL' Q I scid, 6.o you know off henr1 who that fire i ,
} 1 n
I concultant was? ' 1 i : e-MW l, A (F. night) Yes, I do. ! ! o
) ,
l O, y - y p
-~. .
Q .Ceuld you tell me? 4 i 1
,1
,i Q y
.i 1 (Enight) 'His name is Mario Antenatti (?) and he
]
i 3.:-
'. ; is engaged with Dcbcock Associetas.
I
-,{ \
l$ l
? i{ . .i j e ;
I lN 4093 V l' On Page 26, it talks about Plant procedures, j
- Q 2gi requiring areas to be free of materials and equipment being il 3f stored, either during work periods or non-work periods, i b
4 A non-work period is simply after the shift has gone home, 5 , or does that include things like lunch breaks? 6 A (Knight) I seriously doubt that that material y)a would all be removed for a lunch break. I do not know what , i li 3y the Licences intends as far'as his lunch schedule is. l li e
-p L I~n. JGELEAD: IIr. Chairman, I do not know how much e
8
;;. ll more Mc. Bell has in connection with these fire protaction M, -
;; } mattars. !
;; OHAIIGIO.ti MILLER: I think che is about through, x !. .
3 ! aren't you Ms. Bell?
.t 1
a,- I
,t. MR. A CLDAD: I was 9oin9 to coint out that chere t-s- - !: had been an intentien that Ms. 3 ell has on fire protection
. s.
that was dicaissed by the Scard for failure to conply and I i. have bean reluctant to raise any objection, but there have r' F?! .
!! bean t number of qusations that she has asked since that time.
it h
.s,.
i J CHAI?S.N HILL R: Ecu about two more cuestions
. !' on fire, Hz. Bell? Three if you cctch us short.
_ . p} . U M3.. F.CS EIS: 11. Chairman? 4..:, : CEriEFC.U I* ILLER: Yes. i "p O* J 13. ROSOLIE: We do have a contention on the V. a3 0 . ability cf the plant to cparate s::. ely J during the operation _-!- a i
, ,_ ] during the modificntion werh. And, I think fire is one of i
( / i ' ti h .
e-t1. g .- p i o 4094-ff 1 II ti those which ws responded to in interrogatories both to the 2 ,!l1 , Staff. I 3* CHAIRMAN MILLER: Let us see. Your answers of-4
. March 21, 1980 which answer is it; do you have it befo.re you?
1 MR. ROSOLIS:
~
No, I do not.. G CHAIRM72N MILLER:I See fire watch and you were 7; permitted to interrogate on fire watch fairly extensively and I sj.t while cl1 of the equipment is being noved, I think you pretty a il well covered that. It is true, now, you recall, you are on 1 100 ; consolidttei, consclidated contentions and if there was a I
- r. ;i e 0,
striho 1. thic area, particular acpects that Ms. Bell has n, been pursuing for some time. ( 0 13 .i MR. RCSOLIO: Yes. But, Idonotb;elievebecause g, Mc. Dall'c contention was ctruch, thtt basically it should g !!.' pec-judice the Coalition'c concerns. a - ny CO.IPl~1d! MILLER: Well. the Coalition dces not 7 d
;7 y csen to be examining. Ms. 3 ell is enamining -- Ms. Eclls i
- t t ii
; , ll Il contention restricted, now, if you want to get right down to. ,
; [! it, lot us find out what tha answers were. !
, , You will be given }
3; O lead to take over and start cramining and we will heap you-i.1 f
;; { right :ithin the scope of your contention. I suggest that .j
.i.
l. II] you do not have a lot more that you have not already covered, j~ e ii J q- g. c%.. y hut if vou think-thnt von have not, go ahead and procesd. j
'V) 24 {l
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a I'R. ROSOLII: Kaybe I should have explained this
",. h ~ e d, but'as'a convenience to all'. parties and to try to H
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.h a _ I
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f A i t* : 4095 1 cut dern on cross e::anination, we hcvc decided that it would i 2 jusu be better for one of us to croso exasius for the ! 3 intervenorc, rather than having us both ask questions'and 4 r.cybe running into somo duplication. 3 CHAIm:AN MILLER: ' Well, as you know that,is the 2 l
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rulo. We previously e:cplained here. We do not allow lip - y sawing (?) . Which ever counsel starts examining, continues e through that particular exar.ination. So you are just y ,
,a I dicebaying cur stated clo. However, you are getting into .
Il g jj an aron where en behalf of yourself and your organization,
-- . ., i, certain ' cope of fire contention which was specifically i
/ I g li trichen d en MS 3all ascerted'for all reacons that va all ;
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p ilp know. So, I therafere an giving you an oppes-tunity to l fl u benefi frca the decart of the usual rule, which said'that.
,. api g h, you could not cer.e in at-this point. Give you an opportunity '
b i l i y, ;; to go en uith those aatters not previoucly covered that i relate to your contention, you or your organi::ation, whatever g- i defys it. Ind limit it to those creas that have not been i
- r. j e .
w~ ccvered, cc, Mr. Rosolie, for that limited purpose, you may {
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inquire thout fire. Mou, when you get through with fire, j
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y j 1 wc ctop, nnd give it back to M2. Bell cnd anything that may 5 3 ramtin ac yc.ur' contentions that che may interrogate by. . i I . I
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_ l MR. ROSOLII: 1:ay I have a minute, It . Chairman?- , l
\v .a o i
1 e I (./ g ;f CIICFd2R I: ILLER: Yec. l 2 I
!- C2.OSS EXIl.IINE'IO3 EN ME. '. ROSOLIE:
25 #~
;'l . :. Iwillfollcaup:.onafewquestionsanfireprotectipn ,
1 t -: i- l. s - _ _ - - - - _ - - _ !- t i
I l n 4096 gg . l ( 1. f l Q On Page 21 of your testimony, in response to i l i
" liel question 20, Now, you may have &lready answered this, but ,
3 h' in Uc. 1.there is says, it will not be stored naar safety d S 4" related equipment, et cetera, et cetera, during work periods 3 ; or non-work periods. Enat do you maan by store? I s fj! A I: night) Well, during the work periods, obviously
'1g cene of these things would have to be in the area and'it is 8 j! simply means that they will not.be whsre they are put there e
.- % tic.;orraily ;.-hile the work is goina that they will not be i.: l stored near certain related equipment. As.far as the non-work v.
es i 1; a periods, it 2c.ans that it will be moved out of the way. e m .I i of coQrre, with the' enception of those things that have to be [V p~ ! 4
! l m.. ..
peracnent'.v left in there for the duration of the work.
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0 As far as tepporary and stored, what distin' cuishes 1
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t 4 m.. ,, ha:"can the two? Souebod.y lays it denn for a minute or I i g romcbody lays it there for a1 hcur and than cones hach? l 1...
' A '?. night) Materials that are neef2d during the i,,
;g{ work day, Lay for a.m G-hour day, whatever that may be, I do l
'6 _
l g not kner. Eut for thtt psriod, those materials which ar= i i t g - needad Lore presumably he ccnnet take in with ther, and those; ,
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I materiale wi".1 not be stored narr cafetv related ceruitment. 9 gg . Thar: uil'. bs no ne25 cc te2e in materials that we will not' I o
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,. 1 ncad the tee, }
l e L * !. II
\ 2-. . J 0 : Set they will take in the materials that'they need <!
I 25 to'uss and those may be combustibles? j n 54 f s 4 1
1 1 l 1 ll N ! 4097 IF u
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* !:{ A (!: night) "' Ye s . )
; Q And they uill leave them there for possibly an 2 f S hour paried?
.4 A (Knight) Yes, it could be. l 1
5 0 On Question 30, Page 22, you state that the plastic l c and wood will be fire retardant. What assurance do you have 7 to raahe that statement? I , c!ti GAIPSJ11 MIU"". I see the.t our transcripts y ji t of yactarday have arrived. Would yo*J. like to pass thrS cu:? d!) 10 l 1 I Of l
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p i N . 4093 I T.ap. 12 h i d . . BY MR. RCSOLIE: . ! jn-1 _. x i
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Q Do vou remember what cv last que,stion was? n fis sue ... . , A (Knight). Yes, I remer.ber. { 3 . : l
- The assurance that we have is that the licensee l 4 ... . . t
. is ccanitted that he will use these kind of materials. That's; 5
e , essentially it.
. ! l a.
Q Do you know what kind of fire retardant, have you 7- .- .. csked them what hind of fire retardant they're going to use? e ,i - Checked cut the codes? !
- g. . i E A (Knight) 1;o, we have not done that. We just .
'c i, -- i, il e g acted that the licensee has a qunlified personnel to l
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1 deterriue this, and accepted that basis. J
\ 12 ! i j Q 2 age 24.
0 :! I __ . .l l You talk cbout ingress and egress to and' fro- '
. 4 .li. .
j! nreas in the control' building and the possible bloching of i
!.? 'I} .
' ' l' cer:nin creas. Did ycu censider the planking the.t was' i, :
s 'O (; - going to be used in the ccble-spreading ec.om? i-
. l 17[0 1 <3 h A (Knight)
Yes, the work in the cable-sprecding f reo a in over against the walls out of the way. It would i
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i; not inhibit cny cccess. l 2 20 0 -. . : Q ifnn.t about when the planking is being moved into
} ;
, L !! ._ . .
- j the enble-spree. ding room?
_n , n _. .. , _ 0 A (Enight) Well, that's just a transient situation j I.3 tl
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' ;; as it's being carried into the place, and this wouldn't i
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, be unusuni for any other situation the.t one could e::pect j 25 *r- -
0 under nor::re1 conditions. Certcinly the things moved t i L
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1 1 1 O il 4099 !
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O- 2 ' . !! j i lj in and out of cross.. To ma, I don't see that that would ;
,a, ;
i F '! offer cny :cricus inhibition to the novament of pe=ple. i 3 0 Herbe we can get n little bit more specific. 4 Did you particularly, at any time, look at the l 5 i possibility of say a fire occurring in the cable-spreading I 6 hl ' room at the sem time the planks were being moved in?
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7 And h ow that would affect fire brigade access?
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6 , A (Knight) No, I didn't look at thct particulcr
'f O ll situation.
a v iC !!o G I believe acrlier Mr. Trncmel said that he didn't ;
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have -- he utid th t ths fire watch patrol was a pretty
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U: ", simplyjcbsnddi5NtreqNretoo$uchtoacccmplish. x ; n (!f: Do you view -- M . Trammal carlier scid, I believe, to para-1- 6
<3 phrc c, c.nd I quote, "That the fire watch pctrol . job was o
- .,'. a fcirit-. cim.e.le job and he wasn't too concerned about who m
p; ll ..'ould 60 thct jch." Do you also have that anme opinion? , u t, se .
, p' 't '
.. (Knight:) 'fes, the job is a fairly simply job. !
h n ._ . gyI, Ecurver, he i~s the ene who'is giving training -- I don't i gjy ucnt -- I cyrec, yea r that it is a very simple jcb. p . .. j
.[y 0 1.nd it desen't = utter who does it? Or you're not j, _ -- .
c: too ccacerned with who dear., it? '
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( . ..
~: a uw A (Knicht) I didn't say that it dcecn't natter.
't .
_N x- Ind-i, 0 77011, that's my question. Dess it matter who p .. . i ( :. ,; 3 i. dess it? l 7 . Zo.. ii;
'A (Knieht)
- We h:ve ne standard as to the ticsessment
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i f 2
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n 4100 s !!
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5 of an individur.1_to perform these tashc, however, I might
.l Bay that I have revi2 Wad the training as given to these 2 t' l individuals, and they are required to perform in the use
.a l of the cztinguishing equipmant, and I think that anyone .,
4' '- who is not que.lifica there certe. inly would be not capable. 5 1[
. e of showing that hi wasn't capable of doing thi: would be v .
I removed from the ranks of those who- do. s . .. Q UcVe you ever viewed 4 fire drill out at the G. ] .. .
. Troj a. rite 7 e .!
.1 [Enight) No, I haven't.- ./
4 "O l
.; 15.. F.C33LIS: I have' no More questions on the
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fire sul jact. 12 1,1 U C:iaI?lm i~~:IER: Ihtnh you. Does Ms. Sell have n.. ; ._ .. . f so'r2 in the c.rcr.2 that she wishes to handle then? s
.e ~
.i, 1-d,,
a
..e c.a . .v. ...
15 ,; . . _ . .. [ 0 rould r.en define safety n:.rgins for me f.n a general ye ._. .
,? rensc?
17 , __ .. f- A. (Clesc:aca) I precuus thct quection is directed 4 to me? I ll
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l b The difference between the rated load -- I think gnd . _ . .. I' ' I'm going to enss.ur your question -- I'ta not cure. i i l ne s u l Cha differenc2 between what is termed the rated i 1
,i, ZL d -- --
D ler.5 of a ranbar r.nd the load at :.rhich the member is t.
\ .' 5 e:qacted te bru :. when you divida uhe rated load into the 1 d . . ,
w , [ '! I icad at whien it'u e=cchef to brsck, wi1*:. give you a
.e._? .d-kl I l t J
)
) 4101 O
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, safety margin, ' ct least that's ene' simply definition.'
f 4; i
' Q Cn page 36 of the SER, there's some discussion i
3 , -- going over todards page 37, about what would happen if .- 4 the plate 8 were to fall, and specifically it
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5 1cohed at if it falls unevenly at two ends. 6 It says, "If despite all precautions noted, plate 7 8 should fall during its installation between the control S and turbine building walls, it is possible that it could contact and damage scme cable if, for example, the plate - " 9[ . - l . . . 10 [ and that goes on telling us about that. e c 11 Ceuld plate E only damage cables if it dropped-f -
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3 U. unevenly? 12, .! A (Clemenson) Part of the answer is a function of n p __ .. . 14 jj a ctructural, which is out of my secpe of review, but within il 15j my cccpa of review, if the plates previously installed ! I IG 6 belou and their bolts are held securely, I do think uhat I ry if piste 8 drops directly or purely vertical drop, that 10 l the cabics uculd not be damaged. ,
- i 1r i 0 Uculd there be ad"<nistrative control to ensure {
d, __ i, 20 h that tc n a anc b treins were in service befora. plate 8 was l h i b i 3; il installed? t l 1 . 1
- 27. )+
A (Clemenson) As far a adr.inistrative controls -- s (' 2; I'n net quits sure I understand what your question.is. , d p,4 U Q Ws11, let me erplain. g W 're 5 1%ing about installing plate 8 during cold V. J
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. 4102 ,
Y.ju-5 1 l shutdown,andeventhoughit'sincoldshutdown,youstill l' 2 l need .to have the equipment operable. 3 There's some suggestion here that if the plate 8 t i 4 ' were to drop for some reason during the cold shutdown that-- 3 for example, if it dropped unevenly on both ends, one train ~ S, of cables would be affected and the other would be unaffected. - a r 7 It would be, therefore, quote, "The maintenance of a cold 3 shutdown condition vould be unaffected." What I'm trying 9[j- to elicit is whether it will it be cartain -- that both ,
'O trcins or both syctcms are in service?. At so=a pointes, t
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nuclecr plants are shut down, some of the trains are out u i . t II !:1 of service for repair or whatever. I i is j; A (Clemencon) Ithinh5undarstandyourquest'i'on.
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14 l I thin'E~the cables that cross between the control :
.e .
. . _ . .. 1 15 y building enc the turbine building, I believe, are train a, )
d 15 I i N if I cm not mistaken. s J 1- If the plant ic in cold shutdown, the valves and ) 13 all other associ$'ted Aq~uipment to maintain the plant and j
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the cold shutdown condition would be -- would have been 19 4, l 11
. . . - :1 20 h'i prei-iously, prcperly positioned in train b, which is not at' "
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21 j risk during the revamant of plate C. -Does that answer your in 22 ll quection? ll ( ( 13 ./ O 150.
'Inothsh.woric,whenyousay,if,.forcamplethe %./ 24 25 platesfellunav[nly,that'sjustoneexampleLthat,'infact,
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m .s. ~ i lj i i b. there would be other things thet could happen with plate 8, i 1 lie which would alco leave train b not to be affected? i
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3 A (Clemenson) I try very hard to imagine all the l 4 adverse things that can happen, and I didn't +- I don't 5, know w!:.at else could happen to plate 8, other than what I've !.
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, 5 j postulated.' ; 1 y Q Further down on pcge 37 of the SER under number one, l' : 8 it talks chout th$ single failure NDPIG-0554, the cingic
., t f ailureproef granes for nt$ clear pou.er plants. Is there.-- ,
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;,7 4 cny quantification of the probability -- well, it wcc 1 stated that the probability of dropping any plate wil! he i i
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_> I low. Is thcre anv. cuantification of this? i.1 - i . g !j A (Cictenson) No. < i
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Chors i$ c NUP5G to ho published that hcc collected '
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;g til the cvailable data from the Navy and OSHA and the
- ,z t,1 Stctc of Cclifornia en crane accidents from (faich ycu.cnn i
7[ get c rough handle for uhat teh prebcbility ct a locd drop a . .
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i uculd he.. Jut neithar in 0554 or in -- hce the e.robability f
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ll ncen catablished. ;
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I night cdd that that number is for industrial s ..- .. . I
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equipm:nt rather thcn nuclear equipnant. ;
.-_.: O On page 37, under No. 4, scmc document, in the i . . . . . J
- c. j,.' 3icdic cf the pa agrcph it ts.lks abcut the uncertainties. ,
4 I ( is ._, qa cccccittzd with the ins $cilct cn or plate 2, c4d that j 1 l
.. .. .il, cubsbc.nuic1 :nnuti eparctor cetionc =ight b2 neccccary.
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1 1 1 il 4104 ! s i it I c
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jn-7 3r It says, in.parenthesso it scys,*And cs yet undefined." f 1
.1 i Could you tell me when those things will be defined?i i !
3h A (Clemenson) That's not my contribution. I can't A the
- question.
i 5 Q Well, actually here's the question; I should have r 3 asked before, which is, if that should happen and the plant 7 were in cold shutdoun, would those substantial manual 5 operator.cetions be necessary? l i s A (Clemenson) No. l 6 .. .. I 10 j Q ,- On page 39, it states that, "As indicated in ( .
;; i section 4.11.1 of the SFR, the structural adequacy of
's ( lj
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1 l 12 lj both A-shapad fraries to preclude a flat plate drop, have
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- 3y,! not bean determined by the Staff, because the -- is not '
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;g finali=ed, the design -- dsteils for these frames," and i
.y l tl it goes on using such words as, "We believe," "should remain,"
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.,-nd and "should be removed."
u . L, !! . Eas that analys1s been completed? , h (Clemenson) I believe that's part of Ken Herring's j 33[y ._. .. .. U testimony. : ie i il . cn !! C Thank you. 7; [. MR. GRAY: Thtt has be3n completed en the Staff 's e- O part. Mr. Harring wcn't address that matter.
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3YKS.$0LL:
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e l i pg 0 Starting en page 41, dealing with the electrical j i
.h annilicry ro:m -- and I vant tc see_if I can address
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II 4105' "I [q, h p Q./cn- s II 1: a .. n. P those questions to tha control room'at the same time.
"f I went to know when you're using -- first of.all, I
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how many areas S$t you'll be using vcter in corijunction' !
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~ I with the drilling? s
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A How mcnv areas?
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Q Yes.
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I A . (Cicr.ahson) It would be en the iie:st wall, the 0 h) u .-- . ; l north wall, the a'-trical au: ilicry room, the railroad c :;, t l 0 bay, the turbine building >at el'evation at the curb at
'o P:t ,
;; sicvetion 93, ct the junction of the control building-1; o
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(,. ji turbino building, and at elevation 69 come to mind.
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j O Unr.t will be the courcs of the wcter? Will it i
.y wg . - . _ .
4 be through heses or what? j u fi ,
': A (Clemenson) I don't know, but I would ascuna ! 1 t ,
, fu \
l ll it "ould bo through hocas. j iJ h ! j Q And this water would bs sprayed on?' -
.a __. .
.' A (Clemenson) I think so.
1c ,1 j; Q Ic cil the equipment in the' areas where water ;
, n i
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, 'l vill be sprayed -- first of all, is there any equipment in
. 1 the creca 'incre uatsr will be usad? '
l 1 - A (Cler.snscn) In the flocr of the electrical pg. \' l
<_..a.. -. .
, ,! ntu:iliary room, yes, there is a considerchle amount of '
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9- [ ;? electrien1 equipe nt in thtt arec.- 1 \s 1 1.. ,,
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0 Awd these are in cabinets, I prestm.e of soms sort. , La \\ - -- b 1
,e; F i
e 8 a j [- .
i H 4106 1 4 i, y n-9 _h
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'Yes.
! A (Cicr.enson) t e . -- i Q Are those cabinets waterproof? I ,
3 A (Cicmenson) I don't think they are. I don't -- I
.u.
the applicant or licenses rather has indicated that they <
. ll 3 "
are going to nop up, sweep, remove' debris as it's generated, t ,
. 1 0 and utili::e the shop vacuum to keep down moisture and dust -
j ; i i 7l . and dirt. if ' i 3 i 0 If, by cny stretch of the ir.agination, water could l I g. D! go - into one of those cabinets of electrical equipment, ,. h !
*o ;
could it cause a short? i
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e . e. (C1cmenson) Oh, I'm sure that it could. ~Actually, ! O k h. i I think I'd bettSE be A littla Sera seccific in terms cif U. 9, - f 12l the work cnd the elsetrieni auxiliary roen. The work is t t
.l i4 i,l, done concrate rule, ns accrues peric1!.c intervals rom ,. ;
4 :: ( ll if " about :tlavation -- column 46. to 41 at column line. n prime. !
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!6 ,.L They are g ing to use an electrical saw, dicmond s'w, a and .
h .. . . s a P[ I. think it has the application of wcts: and the guard over ; p .
':4 lj, it, se that it isn't c matter of spraying cabincts as ons , ,
[i i, =ight visualice from my previcus answer. ; M
.N i C At varicus points there'is mentioned that drilling ,
h - .. _that would be done on ene sids of the wcil would be l. Ef 9 monitored by a werher on the incide to see when the drill , c- 1 . . . l G e :.:. 9 has psnotrated the wa.11.
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and also in vericus points including ,
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pe.ga G cf the SEP., it's! stated that c' works; will, c cots, . n ['l- ' hold ~c.smc11 enclosure agt. inst the wcil-to ecliect and
- fl[ ocatnin' any gc* arated dust, debris, dirt, and water when the l. .
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4107 (_ j n.:.0 l 11 ; breakthrough occurs. I cm trying to figure out how thtt 2 , worher can do both unless the container is flat, which in 3 l this case you can tell me that it is. 4
, Q (Clemansen) I think it was so stated yesterday s ._. . *: ,
! that it's a plastic box with a seal around the edge.
i
. 3I i That's what I heard yesterday, and that's what I i
_ l i was given to understand previously. l O In other words, it would be sc=sthing thet you _. I9 h could see through? : j o 11 i [. A (Clemenson) Yec.
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< ij Q Ecs any censiderctica been given to the fact C
t ( , .3 o. s s ; that water cprny that was used to drill through a vertical i j e. i . wall, vertical piece, could drip down from that area and ,
} ;
p li i i! -- in other words, we're not talking about -- I have a ij
.m
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d difficulty envisioning the eract place that the drill is n going to be used with the water, and I am trying to figure 1"* P out if there is any place where it could be difficult to-l
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c mop it up and the water would simply drip doim the vall or > iln - g,
"' f, down onto ecmething else. Has thtt anclycis been done?
.a,
3 ii J. (Clemencon) I think in the review itself, it a
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1: is civcys uppc=ost in our rinds to lock at all adverse x ,
ll9 peccibilities. I cannot, have not found any place that .
{g's. { I tneucht that the cenersta duct and water wculd drip down , r ) . . . .
" ~ ., in cuch a f shion that it couldn't be ramoved. '
L e nr . : l 0 Sc r in other words, everything -- all this drilling i
-o 1-q s, .
f il , '
;i _ , . - . - - ,.l.
l 410u il s 1 n i i t (' .jn -11 ; 1' must be occurring fairly close in terms of height, fairly )
.i 2 close to a floor or -- in other worda, not 20 feet above !
l 3 the floor that existed or the lowest' plain?- l l 4 A (clemenson) Well, it's obvious that if a man
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5 is to hold a translucant or transparent box against the 6; . . wall and watch for tha drill bit to break through 'the kill",' I 7 he wouldn't reach up 20 feet. They would have to erect a G pistform, if that was the case,and I haven't verified . t
-l; PJ what the elevation is.
4 - H i 10 l' Q I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is I've j b " ~
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7i !: moved on from the inside of the wall going to the outside, ! N e i t
' 12 ll I and I'm trying to figure out if there's anwhere where ql, i
13 N -- on the outsido.of tho wall -- water could possibly fall. 1. la j' In other worda, from the side that the person's d l y ... .. . . ; w is drilling from.
'l K-I
- c. (Cicr.cnson) T.sre 10, to my knculedge, no equipment; ,-
.-- . . - . 1 17 0 Thank you. .
t t - - . . j
, 13 ,
And it is your testimony that basically if noise i 9
. m reachec such a icvel where it oould ingnir the chility of j p .
' n a 2c. ij the. operrt e to hear any h..nd of clarn in the control rocm, ,
- q. . .
) ] or outsid the control rocn, that there would be somabody .
i . . 2n ilIl in chcrge, namely the NRO ir.. specter, who would make changes . s l n; in the equipment being used? Or the method being used to , A v 3 . . .~ i <
-( uq excavato er drill or whctever? !
.=,.m " -
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e
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1 i s -. . . 4109
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.. (Clemonson) I think I heard you say, " work outside l 2 the contrcl -- noise -- or at least you related it to l
i 4 outside the control room. I think of the control room as 4 being tite cor :ninication : enter in terms of emergencies. > f The noise level, I haven't feel, is a big deal
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6 in control room Eo legislative auxilie.ry room. My atten-7 tiens has been directed toward the control room. , 1 0 ; Yes, we have asked for the INE resident inspector l e g y n te have the right to ask the plant to be -- the work to , a, 10 stop until such time as the noise levels can be reduced. li
* . . i
,. i! O Could you tell me, when you envision that process F O
L ~2 n ic it that that incpector would pop in every half hour or I , is jn o*rcry hour er is it more a matter of perhaps the operators i I,
- 14 '.- wocid realice that the noise. level was too high and ;
l, i, is y, that they reuld contact him? Or do you just envicion that ! i .; l happening on sort of a looss basis? : i 17 , I. (Clemanson) You'rs gatting me in an area that
> 10 !;! I don't feel qualified and that is the duties, typical- l'
!i 10 ik, dutics, cf the resident IIE inspector. I don't know what I b
e^ he does, and how often he does it.
] ,
1 L , CT.AI'EI.17 MILLER: You pretty wall blocked him out. - 9 . _ . . . ee 3
- il 3Y MS. BELL: I 0
6
/m n j Q In -- this is addressed to both of you. In ycur ;
; n. _. .. .
2.: H e.aluati:ns did you apply cny of the '?hree Mile Island- i e y . i I lascens la Ined to your analyses? i
;3 l-I e
- i. i, e
e 'i
4 l 4110 c%n- -
% y I j!i A (Enight) Ho.- j
. __ . .i E l;k t
A (Clemenson) No. I p _ . ., l 5 MS. BELL: .I 'tave no further questions at this ! 4': 1 p 4 !- time. D
. l 5
CHAIPJIAN MILLER: Thank you. I t i' 6 l Eow do you feel, Mr' Ax61 . Mad? - 7 MR. AXELEAD: I only have one question. E il CEAIFFAU ICLLER: Okay. I t N , f* p 4 0 ;i ME. AZELRAD: It's cnly a matter of CE arification. ! i' . . . . . . . $. l 10 hl Uav I jnnt have cnct.minttro 1: 1 CEAIRMAN MILLEn: Oh,sure. r }. s s' 12 h. I was just wondering, wculd you. rather recess new. i t. is - I'd like -- if we could finish with this, I'd like to dc ! l i D'
..i !j it, but I want to recess by 5:00. Give cll'of you a chance t
i s. . . w 1 to regroup, because I know therc'.c been come changes in n,i
,3 i' your plans. ;
Ky question will or.ly take a minute, O
; -- ,; MR. AZELRI.D: '
i{ I believe. t s.oe e. i,
;gl CEAIRGN MILLER: All cricht. - Go right' ahead. .-
I h,
'. 10 F 'M. A':ELRAD: Mr. Chcirman, the only questions I I
.it, _. .
g3 } Ucr.t to ask are just -- are just'cn. attempt to make sure that : , i . . _ ..
.e. 0-the record is clear with respect to a matter that'he dis-
.1 I
% ai p .
s
\
L
.e..- pd cuored on the record before with counsel for the .NRC Sttff. -
I l L 3,fifithresp20ttotheNRCSttff'E g dicagreement as to how long . L,, the period 'cf cold shutdowr. should last - for the ' installation t 1 I1 l ! y
t
- {! 4111 m- :l
\ , . >
'jn-14 i 1
of plcto 8, Mr. Grcy indiccted that the b'abis for that - 3 testi .:cny would appse - .tha basis for thct position would appear in the testimony of Mr. Herring.
~ >
I Thepcrticularstatsm$nts with zuspect to the j-5 periods of' cold shutdown appear in two places. One is
. d .. 6 occ_a 28, cacond secticn 4.6 of the Staff evcluation repert l, - -
7 cnd I ar. - and frca the list of Mr. Trr" a' prcvided befera, l 1 B cection/ 4.G of the SE2 uns proptred by it. Cle:ancon. '
* . Theotherp52cswherethereferencs'ismadeto .
10 coldchutdowndub5ng[ndta$l$tionofplate8appecrs.in g 11 the tcctinony of Mr. Clemensen cnd Mr. Knight at page' I O k 12 52, in'the ancwer to question 78. Y I 13 l And the question I uculd like to cch Mr. Cler.ensen ,
+
i i 14 ic: . 15 EY M.R. .CEL?>.D : - 16 Q ,,Even though both the sa tien of the SER which' 17' you drcftsi and your testir.cny refass to cold shutdown t i
, 18 lcsting until picts C ic cecured to the control buildng ' i
,c 10 U2rt r:11 br c11 t-bolts, the bccis for thct stctement.
20 ic Ur. *Icrrins'c testir.cny of'cnclycis, and you do not hc n Z ,i , we, .:,, -. a-.
- c. . < . % c , 4 - -. ..---~.-----.--.--+-----..u<- -
-- i. - 0.r c., -e
- wo . n shuoa..,,
u
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.i 22 I i tho.t. correct? *i .
.A 't e
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('- M 8 f , L i ClC'.Macons ' 1 Uculd lihS,to t V cnd suO.Dort ?dhc . .
-"; N ..
e ctC.tE"#.cnt - hE ccus Ur to~thO E23'cnd Z Cdarstand~Een 8 s
. E .
( 1
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w- [ . 4112 ( ? . t, N
$n .5 1 I.act sp. ring,..nhen I visitei the p.1cnt, I mafe e
~ .i __ . . .
,' very printed question, wh:2 was tha ti=c re:;uired from ,
I
- oving the picts frca the transportsrs to the ti:.e it 4 1
.. a wec attcched securely te the wall? The answer I got, uns ,
5 eight heers. , .. o , IIce, in preparing cy SER, my portion of the SEP. ', o rightfully co, I ashrgsdtotryand=kecleardefinitive
.c.
! points for that perice of tima th t I felt that the plcnt Dl , .
i e chcu. .v , o.e 2.n colc. shutc.orn. to.L - Considering this informaticn that I received froc [ ( 6. g ' '~ ycurpacple,ofeighthours,I.fe5.tthatthatwasareasonable ; yr h length of tira, and it could be clear enough insofar as 13
.,.. n. . . ., _ :. . _4 ., . ,. a. n ,. .. ,,a.
14 i O Mr. Cler.nnson, et the timo that that info action . l
, r: ! l
.a o __. _. ;
i.l rac .:revided to vcu, that ms before certain cdditional tew i., , l ct;ps in the instcllction of pl:ta S would develop by the { 17 ' 1 J lic ns:.2 ..in recponce to II".C Stcff questionc, was it not? i
. 18 - j 1
Ncs in not before? - 1 10 ,!! . . A (Clemanton) Therc's been a creat - deal of inforsc- .
. \
u l ... .
.o .. . _:..,.s,. ... . s 2 2.,.en , ... v ., .
n I e 1 a i s
- i. O Includine. the cdditica cf cribbine. to protect ,
A
. . . . . . ].
- O cytinst the ircy of picte 2, ic thtt not correct?
.a g,a 4 . . - .. . .
f% b t I A . (Clencncon)- Cribbing dcssn't htIs to be instt11sd j I' g ... . . . ~_. .. ..
".-. . m
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,1 8.5 befers you begi.4.' the : lift.
11 '
&a
4- . ..
. ~
4 t il 4113 . O l i (
-j n-1.6 1l d'{ O Eut in any event, thare hcs been a nirnber of i
h..i . 1 2 I{ icprovar. ants with respect to the inctallation of plate 8 j 2[ . , which could affect substantially the period of ti:ne for j 4 the installation of plate 8, is that- not correct?
> 'f 5l i
A No auestion. t. ' i G Q --. And .the only interest,,that yoti . or the NRC Staff l 7 has with respect to the period 'of cold shutdown is' that . j 2 f i it inst until plate 8 is securely installed in its locction? } , il - ' ED Thct is the statement you just made previously? ' 4 10 h. A (Clemenson) Would you repeat that'.so that'I know 11 " uhrt I said?
- C s
s 11 !. G r.c to hou long the cold shutdown shcu'1d last, p 4 ,ei. . - your vie: would be that it chenld last until plate 8 is h 14 ' . p Escur:1-l installed? ! l t-5[ A (C1cr.enson) fer.i, and when I say securely cttached, i
- 3 lj I hivo to find concu rence or confer with Mr. Eerring as m ,
t0 his concarn as to uhat constitutes coeurely. c TS Q So, Mr. Herring uould be the NRC's staff witness > 4
" 0 -
m 4, who uculd hcVeto testify cnd provide us his bases for ! i, 1 E. ' ' a pcrticulcr point in the inst 112 tion procesc when the l n, i - it j P1Ltc is cocurely installod? , i. 1
~
12 j J. (Clemenson) Yes. >
)
1 23 ?p
- ,Os ( .;
G' And. von hcvs no indstandcnt basis.basides that I
- i. . . . . . .
-i.
'\ ;p h thich Mr. Zerrin; rould previde for that judgment? '
, . . . . I
-g3 : A. (Clemenson)- That's correct. '
4
*.e rp sg . s . **
[ .
* )
l l 1 f 4114 i j 17
^
l. IC. AXCLEAD:- That is all. ,
, 2 - -
CHAIPSJ.N XILLER: Thank you.
'3I ---
I take it that concludes the cross-examination? - ( 4 .-
- Very well, you may be excused.
5 Do you have any inf6bmsti~o~n as to how we will
~
~'
S - -- -
. proceed --
7 Oh, I'm sorry. Dr. McCollom. ' g ... . .. QUESTIONS BY THE BOARD:
, e. _ . ..
~
DY DR. McCOLLOM: 10 0 Mr.CleI.ando$,you,Ibelieve,worriedalittlebit i about the cutting of the concrete and the possible missiiles that might occur from that. But I think I got the
, i=pression that you hcdn't really evalucted how big these I '*
piscas might be. Do you have any insight into that from your study? M A Ho, I do not have. '
'7 Ihave$cte$tablishedthssizeofthepiecesof concrete that could fall.
D Q Did you write the part or did Mr. Knight-that l
~
'0 starts with question 95 cn page 60 of.your testimony.where 21 you c c Seccribing the safety equipment'in the electrical' 1 22 auxilicry room, and then the ancwor,to it lists all of the
.q. l ;
e 23 I
.( . -\ equip:3nt.
g 25 A. That Vas ry testimony. - 25 g .n;,1,;fh5g, ~hr3;g [3 gni,ge,ying up in question 9fl., 3
- . . . , . . _ .s e e ++ .. 6 *w .' g u _! ' . . , , - J t
!I 4115 ! I . ./
A l',1 i l 5 i I . t
. f.
4 . fn-19 ther i: a statomont there that says, "Ac a result of our
& +.
ravioc cf this modification work that is in the electrical ! 3 annilicrica recm, wo believa that the licensee has failed , t t 4 . .
, to d2monstrtto that the proposed measu:Ees will adequately l 5 . -
protect the cbove safety-related systems from missilec. . 6 Is the cnmier to that still' trua? 7 - --- - n (Olemenson) No. c ,: . . . ..
!.! ':'his was prepared before sono of the submissions
,e ! __
' l cnd inic= tion thr um receired. since this hcs been written.
10[ f I O If th:t's true, shouldn't .that be corrected ' 11 in y ;r testimon , or is that going to be handled at a i
/ ,\ { '
12 I V( i ct'.: time? ' I~o l 0, CI:AR!'a.U MILL 2R: Late or not, it sh0uld be l y li - -- O l' cer:30tod. j 15 . Councel? i I . 16 :
'l !'2.. M0GUP. REM: Mr. Cliairman, cculd we have the 17 uitnces state again what he just Ctated?' And refer-to the ;
5
,. ts - . . - -
pagO that you're referring tos > . ' 1 p~ .. . . . . i
,l l 20'.. CL2MENSCS: Ics, I believe that the answer to ,
r it .; . 79 , j i,.
.o.G:ct*n thnt the licsnces has fail d to denenstrate the
-s. .
g 5 .- . . n pra;:sce tre. tres to ciequately prourct the.sr.fety-related , t s ,h cyctacc frem nissile.s.
?
k 'l
- Since then, I hsve,.I-think, rcesived information- i 8
U, . g*~ y . ... - h th:t in ther cacec for refcty-related equipment,'at least i ,
, n . '1 J "S'kLvarbcl~.y,Irsceivedinforms.tienthatthcy'regoingtouse ;
~
. , j l.
'I. , - , -
l 4 1 r t l t i. l. O b 4116 I n .:.9 II !
?I. !'
plcnking around such safety-related equipment that would be ! l ?. . . T' at rish from conctruction-generated missiles. 3 l
< Mr. McGURREN: !L . Chairman, I believe it's the v
Steff's position and still is the Staff's position that .
. o , ..
the e.nswer to questien 99 racponds to the situation. We :. 7 lj. .
. .. l
' indicatec that the alternative'-- in the alternative, the T1
' l
- s
.1 p to::ticony indicates that in the alternativa to shutting ,
, 1 n .. .
i M
} down the plants the plant -- well, it says, the plant shut- ,j .
., dcun would not be necessary if suitchie protection of equip-
, i.
1I {t
,e j raent from =issiles, for enemple, through the use of missile - '
m 3 ., j y < s q shia.~.do, to provide it. ; w1 . . . . . . u
!; CF.AIRMJJ! MILLER: Yes, but.-- ,
4 , . _ . . _ . . . _ j DR. McCOLLOM: Let me take another tack at this. Mg . . ..._ . . t
,p S fety-relatsd equipment means to be able to-in Q .-- .... .. . i k =cintain the reactor in a shutdot:n even if it were a cold
}
- -- l ,
[ hherefors, the fcet that your cold q chutdcyn, safe'h. !
, wp '.. .. _ . .
j,i shutdm:n docan' t necessarily mac.n that your safety-related !
)
; ..s. . . .
rs ;f equip cat is satisfactory if it's c::poced to some kind of
. 0l .
a
- . =issile, so there verld have to be an analysis to figure I l
21 !- -- i that out. ! il. - , n... 9 s , y Kncreupon, et 5 :20 o' clock p.m. , the hearing , l (~
^
C u P'! wa: rectsced, to reconvena a: 8:30 o'cloch a.m. the following 2.4 i h corning.] i .! n' . . . l i l
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- k _ _ _
.. . . _ _ , . . 'l 1
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4117 e r y .; ,i 7.'n. ECCOL*IZ: Ir.crer tb Quaction DC inconsistant j .; l I. I!. u or incccurate compared to what I hr.ve heardttt this point.
, .t ' ,
i Ii e 3.nd perhapc it can be wordcd to reflect enactly the Staff's i i 1 -. J
,1 pocition and I suggest that that 'aybe t -- that might bc l 5 I sc ething that could be done. , . S1 . 1/2.. Mc'Gurren:
I'.r. Chairman,.could we have a fcs - b
-t i
minutes cnd I c.lso have a question. } ' 3 ;; hava we, I do not h:fou what proceduro you are b . e !{ e. follouing hers, but do ve Tcill have the cp;crtunity for s 1.0 h direct -- re-direct? ,
;; ij CEAI??>27 EIILEn: Yss, you do.
t c y
- g. in j uithin the scope of icines and cattc:3 rciced by 1
r j, 1 8 cross em -4nction, you would hcVe an opportunity to 1
; l' have :-dira:t encninction.
Let no cay, now, for the cake , t '
.a . ', of the reccrd, the -- upon interrocation by the scard, it -
R i p.: cen.acra ths: the ann crs which ap.ner.r on Pages 64 and 65 are 4 i .. .O.
._ nu c n _ _.. , . L,4 co
.....u &- o . w._.,.c a e e.,. 0 ., .et_o t.1 y
_ . .n_ Ji g,
- i' correct ^=< "" ny, co you cre either going to have to change j
- w. . . .
f, d it, cnd aryltin why they have non corrected the tectincny
.+
f cr .v.aur v..tnccces will be ir. patched. . I know, cs Coun 21, . . ap
- r.
-. O
, vcu ui".1 'ecnt to straighten the record out right now.
'- 3
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l l l 1- 1 t,as ,1 g 411C L i we will give ycu the time that you need.- We would like to
, {'
i 2 i f recest, shortly around 5:00 for the convenience of the people 5 who have reocested it, but it is not inpared, so let us know 4 if you are able to go on in about five minutes.
' I
! 5 (Whereupon, a short recess I
, i G was taken at 4:55 p.m.)
4 f 7 CHAIRiWi E: ILLER: All right, Counsel?
- l 0 MR. McGURRI21: If I mcy, Mr. Chairman, I would liks!
f i i ! 9 j. to direct the Panel's attention to Page 64 of Staff E::hibit 14 h, 10 I RE-DIRECT ED.MINATIOM SY MR. McGURREN:
! t 11 . O And, Mr. Clemenson, as a result of your review i O' tLh. of Licensea's testimony of Mr. Eroshi, which I believe t 4
?! y appears on Page 37 --36, that is yesterday's transcript.
[
,t .
14 f. Do you hcra any cdditions er ccrrections to your testimony. ! Il 1 i d ;; A (Cismenc0n) Yes. I believe that the question } o I' he . cf Edeque.ta protection for cc.a.st uction generated nicsiles
',' have been cdeductelyddealt with, sc'I have no concerns. .
n B -
- g. !! Q Ccn you indicate t.Sct has caused you to change i n '
, ;. N your test.iriony?
I- ! E l'g l A (Clemenson) It'. Broehl's testimony cf August- 31, ! I
.H. l l.
Pr.ge 3726 -- _} a i 1 i i 1 0;
- . o., MP.. McCOLLOM: Is that Mcrch 317 l l l I '
"e . MR. CLW2F50N: 'I bcliava that is correct.
CN (- P . A i 7.; :: (Clemenson) In which it is cts.ted, that a missile .-
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bc rier will ha provided and ubey are thinhing in possibly
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4 r 4120 , . D 9 y r_1 lot:cd. Q cstion 99, Page 64; ..nswer 99 en Page 65, Staff
- m.s.hJ.'.3.f u 1 .d. . 4 .e., .c 4 ... 4.,=.L. en . ,
f 3 .
*1R. !i GUE".G: Uc',7, Mr. Chair: tan, I have one ;
o, 4 i other correcti.on the.t I would like to make to the testimony t
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'O capccity of th: chcchlea, n:.ightly ic;3s then one half.
O So are you.scying,.Iir. Cicmenson, thct whsn'you 3 were responding to 11r. Cztrander you mcda a mistake about tha . i 4 shackles? 5 A (Cle=3ncen) In the responss, I think he indicated ) 6l I. the master alloyd linh, cnd he did not see the consistency , q 7r I. batn n the margins that I indiented, but we were tL1hing of . ,. -- -1 3 ;h u. , -
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sf L'E. M GUF2.EU: That is all the Staff has. lt t tc f . CE*CP.11AN MI' d ER: Is that Ell?
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, Mr. Chai.m. " , would it be easier '
t i j .; j if I rcrced th question that we csked this cerning so'that j f 4:
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1; 4 n it GOntonces on the first Paragraph On Page 47 of your ! e -i I
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- t. testimony. state, 25-ton shachles vill be employod for-mching- l
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the ctttchments, therefcra,;for the.-heaviest plate, the !, v n
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y mo.n. . . tu,. ,. ..... o n c., ., a_.a. o .. t, . s m,e . raided capccity cf the shachics. q . Our question was,-explain. ! i
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X = l how;this~Ite:GIsnt'is correct Uhen ths hacvient plate weighs: i y h '57,.O *'d .N. OC?.d6 End thO 'UEidid GayECit"." Cd thG ; ShEOh1G iS.
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l-h i 1 , lin. CLE E SC": -! ctand corrected if you said l p . i
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sh: chics. And it is not more thre. cas half, but slightly I
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h - - 1 t Ma. CSTRAIDER: Your testit0ny does say more A
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t 3't! Lin. CLD;EIGCH: Yac, it does. The core should ' it
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. . IiR. OSTrJJCSR: I thihh errliar you' stated the.t t
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,I there tras two shackles or was thara one shtchle or is there.
go two chtchicc? g) 1$.. CLCCZSOC: 3 ch leg of a sicne, it utilizas q- a 25-ton checkle at occh end of hha cable. l w l I!R. OSTrJliD23: So there tra two chackles? a. 1, I:2. C?.CIE1: Soli: Two ah2chles car cablo er since .heria) m are four cr.bl.as there cre eight chc. kles. at least. , l
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So thic ste.tacant it correct .: . I
. r print trith the mcdification cd the werd less with the werd :
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