ML20096H218

Transcript of Il Goldstein 840907 Deposition in Washington,Dc.Pp 1-80

ML20096H218
Person / Time
Site:	Comanche Peak
Issue date:	09/07/1984
From:	Goldstein I Citizens Association for Sound Energy
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ML20096H209	List: ML20096H206 ML20096H218
References
OL-2, NUDOCS 8409110295
Download: ML20096H218 (82)

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~ UNITED STATES OF ~ AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

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b'3hRC In the matter of:  : -

M SEP 10 ,

TEXAS UTILITIES ELECTRIC  : Docke t No . O'k.45-2

' COMPANY', . e t al -  : r ., t ,. .. ,5 0 - 4 4 6 -2

.(Comanche ' Peak Steam Electric  :

-Station, Units 1 & 2)  :

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Deposition of: Irwin L..Goldstein I

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I l- -Location:- Washington,-D. C.

I Date: Friday, September 7, 1984 Pages: 1 - 80 Ann Riley & Associates

,, ' Court Reporters

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1625 i St. N.W.

'Y/ Suite 1004 Washington, D.C. 20006

, (202) 293-3950 8409110295 840910 PDR ADOCK 05000445 T PDR

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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

' NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2

3 __________________x 4 In-the matter of:  :

5 TEXAS UTILITIES GENERATING  : Docket Nos. 50-445 COMPANY, et al.  : 50-446 6-  :

(Comanche Peak Steam Electric  :

7 Station, Units 1 and 2)  :

8 ____________.______x 9 Bishop, Liberman, Cook, Purcell and Roberts 10 1200' Seventeenth Street, N.W.

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! Washington, D.C. 20036 11 Friday, September 7, 1984 Deposition of IRWIN L. GOLDSTEIN, called for 13 examination by counsel for the Applicants, taken before Suzanne Youn.J, Court Reporter, beginn ng at 1:00 p.m.,

pursuant to agreement.

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l- APPEARANCES:

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2: [dn': behalf of Applicants,' Texas Utilities Generating.

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13' BRUCE'DOWNEY,'Esq.

.' -4' , . MARK DAVIDSON, Esq.

., Bishop,.Liberman,' Cook,JPurcell.~& Reynolds 5'

1200 ; Seventeenth Stree L, N.W.-

. Washington',1 D. C . 20036

.6 On behalf.of:Intervenor, CASE:

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ANTHONY ~Z. ROISMAN, Esq..

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. ARTHUR H, BRYANT, Esq.

. -BILLIE' GARDE

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Trial' Lawyers for.Public Justice, P.C.

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'3  :.E X H I B I T N O'.. ~FOR IDENTIFICATION IGoldstein Ex.:No. 1

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. Goldstein)'

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s 50: iGoldste'in' Exhibit No-.'2 (Packeti of jnewspaperi articles) . 8-

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.- t Goldstein Exhitit No. 3

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( - 18 Goldstein' Exhibit NO..:4

- (Packeti' o'f Equestionnaires) 24 ym: -10.

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g JGoldstein. Exhibits 3A, 3B,~3C and 3D .

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- Goldstein Exhibit No. 3E

13. S(Summary of 1983 data) 31

' Goldstein' Exhib'it' No. 5 2(Recommendedfdecision of the ALJ 4 ,

- 15 vin the Atchison ' case) 34'

' l' , LGoldsteiniExhibit No.-S6 (Material' read'by Deponent

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'PR0CEE D ITN G S N

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(1:00 p.m.)

3- fMR. DOWNEY: This;is-the discovery depos1 tion

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I r ui nl L .. 'G o l d s t e i n , who has been called.as an T4L

, 5- .expe rtL wi t ne s s by t he ; Int e rveno r,- C ASE,- i n this proceeding.

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.6 ~Dr. Golds'tein.

s 37 'Whereupon,'

8. , IKWIN?L. G0iDSTEIN

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wa s c a ll ed a s a .z wi t nis s ? a nd,' ha vi ng'.be en --f i r s t duly sworn, y,a1 J. 10 '. was examined and testified as,.follows:

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EXAMINATION' ' ~

12! BY MR. .DOWNEY:1 .

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QL -Dr. Goldstein, I will.ask;you t o -; r e v i e w. a '

I4 document that:has been-marked for-identification as

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iApplicants' Exhibit"1 and ask if you',can ' identify -it.

16 (The' document referred to-

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I8 Exhibit No.'1 for

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i d e n t i f i c a t.i o n . )'-

h CI E T h a t' . !i s ' w r i t t e n testimony that I'gave A Yes.

21 on? August-20, 1984.

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b. 22' 'Q' And'was that testimony' intended to be offered in 4

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2 A Yes, it was.

3 Q -Dr. Goldstein, have you been retained by the 4 Citizens Association for Sound Energy to participate on 5

their behalf in this proceeding?

6 -

A Yes, I have.

I 7 Q And when were you first contacted by a representative 8 of CASE?

9 A It would be about two or three months ago.

10 Q Going back, then, that was sometime in June or s

N July; is that about right?

12 A Approximately.

I3 Q Who made that first contact, if you recall?

I4 A A person by the name of Billie Garde.

15 Q Did she call you or write you?

I0 A She catled me.

17 Q Pid you make a memorandum of that call to identify 18

'the date or that would identify the date?

19 A I don't have my date book with me, but I probably 20 could identify the date for you, if you want.

' Q Yes, I would like that, Dr. Goldstein. Could you, 22 g,,,, __

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2 fQ -- refer to your'date_ book?

3~ A Yes.

4- Q- When did you agree to work' on behalf of CASE 5' in this: proceeding?

6 A. =Whatever day that was, Billie Garde came over to 7 my.-office and-discussed-some of the issues-in the case, and 8 1 told her at that particular time.that 11 thought that 9 whether or-not I would testify would depend on whether there.

7_q- ' 10 _ were. issues relevant'to my expertise, and so she gave me t )

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11. ~ some materials to' read.

12' I Looked at some of those1particular materials.

13' 'I.would'say approximately.a week or_so after I looked at

'14 'them,-I had a discussion with Mr. Roisman on the phone, and' 15 we discusred what psychological issues might be involved, 16 and I told;him what'I thought-the issues would be.- And

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17 at that particular(point, he asked me.to review the 18 materials, some'morez materials, to see whether I could offer l- .

19 any, opinions;on the'm relatsd'to; industrial organizational fs .

(,) 20 psychological. issues, which.I did.

21 Q ~'Mr' Goldstein, we have a large volume of documents g$

A_/- '22 .here. Could you identify, please, those materials that

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411 ~.Ms. Gardegave'you in your first meeting with her?

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-2 : A- IJcoulditry, butfI have e same large set of 1- - document s.. I: know wha't I have.had in total. I'm not really

, 4 -sure what I have received at any one. point in tine.

-5' Q' ~ Let'me ask you, did you-receive some materials

. 6 concerning the_1979' survey at that first meeting?

7 A- No, I'did not. I. received more descriptive 8 ' materials, i nc'Luding summaries of newspaper articles, some

9' mater.ials.related to the Atchison incidents, and one'or

,_; 10 'two' other things like that.

_5 )

-11 Q And with respect to newspaper' articles..and 12 ' . summaries, do you have.those with you today?

13 A [I probably do.

! 2 14 Q Would you' produce them, if you can?

15 A' Okay.

16' (Pause.) -

37 'Q' Dr. Goldstein, have you located the packet of 18 - newspaper articles that you received from Ms. Garde in Ik ,your'f'irst. meeting with her?

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L (_j l _ 20 'A If these were not the articles, then they were 21 articles j ust'Like'.these. I suspect that they were the

.f 22 x/ articles.

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8 c1-5 f I MR. DOWNEY: I would like to have this 2

packet of newspaper articles marked for identification 3

-as Goldstein Exhibit No. 2.

4 (The documents referred to 0

were marked collectively 6

as Goi.dstein Exhibit No. 2 7

for identification.)

8 BY MR. DOWNEY:

I Q Did you read those articles, Dr. Goldstein?

10 S A I would say that I scanned them.

1 II Q And what you learned from those articles, did that 12 r of the basis for what you agreed to testify in form pa't 13 this case?

14 A Not realty. I consider the articles as just 15 j; giving me some background materials on what persons were 16 saying. I don't consider newspaper articles as scientific 17 evidence of any sort, so, you know, I just knew that there 18 were various perceptions of individuals, and I looked at them 19 in that way.

20 But I was trying to determine whether there were 21 any psychological issues related to work organizations.

22 Q And did those articles help you form a work?

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f (_) ' judgment about-whether there'were psychological issues-in 2- Lt h i s ' c a s e ?.

~3 A I think I'thenLhad-a~ conversation with 4' ~

'Mr. Roisman where we discussed questions like,-well, how 5

do people ~ learn -- how'does information get passed on in

' organizations? And I said something, as I reca ll, li ke,

'I well, I would need to know a lot more about what actually 8 went-on in theLorganization. And'he said to me, "Well, A- '

what would you do'to1 find out what is going on in the M

py organization?" And I said, "Well, I would probably conduct LJ U -a needs assessment."

12 A needs assessment is a technique used by I3 organizational psychologists to determine what is happening

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14-in an organization be[ ore-the implement / programs.

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.Q Did these. background articles help you identify psychologicaldissueslin!this ' case'?

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'A Well, I think they identified the fact that there was a group of individu'als 'or* some Ti ndiv iduals who had o' 19 concerns about'particular issues in the organization, which r.

1 20

_; w e r e typically safety-related concerns. It really couldn't 21-

give me much of a feel for how pervasive that was, whether A,D, .

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.2' Q- In-addition toithe newspaper articles, did

3' 'Ms.' Garde provide'you withfany.other-documents in your first i

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'4 meeting?'

, .5 A WelL,'she'did present me with some reports of 6L inc i d e n t s . .Now since~then,'I h' ave received ~many,.many reports, 7- 'so'I'can't realLy telLLyou1which.ones were presented at

'8! that(particular point ~in time. But.she al'so described to-

'9- me-her perceptions of_some of these particular incidents.-

7 10 -

.The one that c o rr e s' t o . m i n d , I guess,.is the A '~' /

11 Atchison i ncident'.

'12 -Q So:in that first meeting, Ms. Garde verbally

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_ described for you the=Atchison incidentjin her words?

q 'M A' Yes,fbut l m'ean very briefly. ,

15 Q- Do.you recall.her! describing:.any other incidents

- 16 .to y'ou?

17 A I'm sure she d'id,:but!I1 don tjremember n which'ones

, I8 ' they are.-

I' - Q DoLyou recall one of.them being the Dunham incident?

t 20 A' No, I don't' recall her describing that.

II

, . MR.'DOWNEY: Will the reporter please identify on 22 '

the transcript that-a cotLeague of Mr. Roisman, Billie Garde,

11 c1-8 has joined the deposition.

(Ms. Billie Garde enters the deposition room.)

MR. ROISMAN: This is Billie Garde, GAR D E 2

(spelling), and she is a law clerk with our office, working on this case with me.

4 5

Q The only incident that you recall having described to you was the Atchison matter, is that right?

7 A Well, candidly, I'm sure there were other 8

incidents, but, you know, it was several months ago, and it 9

Was a conversation, and if anything was described, I think what was described were the kinds of incidents that they 11 were concerned about, rather than, you know, great detail 12 about any particular incident.

Q Apart from the newspaper articles, can you identify 34 from among your materials any materials that Ms. Garde gave you 15 at that first meeting?

16 A I really can't.

37 18 Q When you testified, Dr. Goldstein, you spent a j9 week or so reviewing these materials; is that right?

20 A Oh, no, no.

21 Q Over a week or so, you reviewed the materials?

22 A Right. I spent a couple of h our s maybe, looking

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_[_)- lat-;some of the materials, and then about a week later, I 2

. ended up' talking to Mr. Roisman on-the phone.

3- Q You testified, Dr..Goldstein, that you had discussed l :with-Mr.'Roisman'your views on what the psychological issues-5 in the case might be;1is 'that right?

'7 -A I said that in order to det ermi ne w!q t the 7

_ psychological issues w'ere,.that.you would,have to Go a needs 8

assessment in.the organization. And as I recail, v

" 9 Mr. Roisman asked.mer."Well, what would that consist of?"

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(~y And I gave a general-description of how you enter an LJ II organization , you 'might do some-interviews, and you might 12 design a questionnaire and use various procedures, and how

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.you would try toftalk.to persons across'.the organization to

, obtain,jI guess -- I mean a reatLy good idea of what a needs 15 assessment is, is that it would give-you a-photograph of 14

-the organization according to the part-icular issues of concern.

37 1 Q.

And, Dr. Goldstein, is the kind of needs-1 18 assessment.that you described to Mr. Roisman the description 19 A

of the study that you described in your written testimony?

• s A Do you want to point to that?

21 Q Yes,:I'd befhappy to.

~# ' 22 You describe at pages 15, 16 and 17 a kind of study i

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1 'that you might undertake.at Comanche Peak.

2- LA Essentially.

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3 Q That.is the kind of needs1 assessment study you

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'5 A' That is generally the way I described it'at the 6 time.

4 7 Q Insofar as you know, has a- needs assessment been 8- conducted-at Comanche Peak?

9' ~ Al WeLL, I know that studies have been conducted 10 'at Comanche Peak, but'I wouldn't I guess depending.upon

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111 w h'a t you consider the. Level of those studies, you might 12 - consider that some work has been done. I wouldn't consider.

13- 'these exactly as a needs assessment.

14 Q Following your conversation with Mr. Roisman,-

15 'were you provided additional materials about Comanche Peak?

i ..

16 A Yes, I was. I mean, at'that point in time, y

II Mr. Roisman said that there were surveys in, I guess, 1979..

18 And he said -- he asked I think.the other date was 1983.

' I' - me whether.I would take a look at those and determine what

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they' indicated.

II Q Did you agree to do so?

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( . 122 A Yes, I did.

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r-14 ci-11 I Q And were those surveys the next materials tnat 2

you received from your client?

3 A Well, those surveys, plus a whole bunch of other 4 materials.

5 Q Let's start with the surveys, Dr. Goldstein.

6 The materials you were provided with respect to 7

the 1979 survey, can you identify those from among your 8 pile of materials?

9 (Pause.)

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f~'i 1 A' At this point-in time, it's hard'for me to tell 2 =which came from which, but-here are-some of the 1979 surveys. j l

3 . Basically -- 'here are some more 1979 surveys (handing -

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4 documentsLto Counsel Downey), and here are some composites 5 -of Ethe

1979 surveys.-

6 zQ Dr. Goldstein, you have. handed me three packets 7 of material and a loose survey. response.

8 Do these' constitute all the materials received l 9 on the'1979; survey?.

-s. 10 MR. ROISMAN: I think'there is some confusion.

(~~'l 11 That question asked for-att materials received in the '79 l

,12 survey.- The.first' question asked for att the ones received

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13 at that other' time. And~there are additional materials, and  !

fM I don't know whether he_gave them to-you'there, that were 15 received by him on thel'79: survey subsequentty. Everything I 16 that represents a' digesting byLus, for instance, that now  ;

17 appears, I be'lieve, as Exhibit.-- CHI Exhib'it 20, was given 8'

~to him at a la t e r'. t ime. - ,

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'So your second question asked for a broader l

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) ' thing.than theff rst one. -

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'21 BY MR.' DOWNEY

'- II Q I apologize. Going back to that first document i

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i-x.s 1 pro' duction on the '79: surveys, do these materials that you 32 =bavefhanded me comprise the materials that you were given 3- at L the first meeting?

d 'A. Most of them are materials that I was given at 5 the~first meeting.- As a result -- with Mr. Roisman.

, I had

'I ~already met with Ms. Garde before.

'I o As a result of that meeting, I went back and 8- , looked through the surveys and pointed out to Mr. Roisman

' I that i t: would be.- 'that there.were just a lot of' individual 10 ~

p Esurveys, and'they.weren't organized.in any fashion, from the VJ '

' II . point.of view of repetition of themes or anything involving 12 aLeontent analysis,'anything involving any, summarization of 13 data, which madejit di(ficult.to look at, that if he wanted 54 -me'to, I could,'but it.would take a pretty.long time, and 15 I didn't think that he would want to pay me to do that.

M And so he offered to do that.

II Q And did he?

M A Yes, he did. ,

, Q Do.you-have the materials, the summarizations?

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' 30 A' A That would be'thefpacket marked " Composites."

21 I don't-know if that is atL of them, but it is things like

,em that. '

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, (Pause.)

2 Q Dr. Goldstein, when you were given the surveys 3

themselves, which as I' understand it followed your 4

conversation with Mr. Roisman, which followed by one week 5

your initial conversation with Ms. Garde --

6 A Approximately..

7 Q --

were the surveys that you were provided 8

represented to be all of the surveys that were available?

9 A I don't recall asking that question, but I guess 10 I assumed that those were the surveys or at least some large 11 enough sample of the surveys for me to be able to get a feel 12 for the kind of data that was collected there.

13 Q And then at some subsequent time you were given 14 what was represented to be a summary of the surveys; is that 15 right?

16 A That's correct.

17 Q And were the summaries you were provided the 18 packet of materials that I am handing you now (handing 19 documents to witness)?

20 A Yes, I believe it is.

MR. DOWNEY: And, Ms. Reporter, would you mark 22 .

the composite summaries as Goldstein Exhibit 37

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'4' for~ identification.I 5 BY MR..DOWNEY:

6 Q D r'. - Go ld s t ei n, once you received the summaries 7 of~the' surveys, did you: refer back at all to the original 8 su'rveys?

9 -

.A 'I don't believe I referred back to the original 10 m -

. surveys.

..] II - 'Q .And the judgments you formed about t he ' 1979 12 ' surveys are a consequence of your examination of 13 Goldstein' Exhibit 3; is-that correct? .

- I4 LA . Tha t 's correc t . But.'as you recall, I had' Looked.

15 La t ' a ll t he ot he r . surveys, so that was providing summaries I' offinformation..that I-had atr.eady tooked at.

17 Q- .

But in your testimony, you said:those summaries 18 on the organization teams and materials'wds!information that

' 19 might be relevant tofyour. inquiry.

hJ A That's correct, except that, you know,'as you 21 go through something like that, you go through it somewhat

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1: are-the kinds'of' themes" showing up." I couldn't add and

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2 -subtract them and come upLwith f exactly-how many there'were.

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"3 -I didn't 3 go'thbough them with'the' idea of reading each one

-4 c a's . a n '. i nd i v i d ua l ev en t . ,

, a 5 ~Q Leaving with you the same kind of impression 6 that reading'the newspaper articles did, for example; is that 7 right?

f 8' lA . WelL, :it .is a little bit different. And the'

-9 ' surveys.are' individual responses of a person, and'so they cy- ) 10 . present some-perception of their-events. The newspaper

- K)

,E ' ll articles, you know, involve a reporter's perception of.someone d2' :else's perception,of the events, and so it is another step 13 away.

14 It's.hard for me to 'know what the kind of filters are. There-are.obviously also filters in questionnaires.

, 16 ' -Q Dr. Goldstein, did you provide any-direction to

~ 'I7f the' person who was responsible for compiling Goldstein L I8 Exhibit.3?

~

I' A Well, I think we generally discussed the. fact' 7 7._.

\- )

' I that-there was an awful Lot of data there that wasn't reatLy 21 . organized in any coherent' fashion, and that it is reat hard iR ,

' '# ~ -H .to deal with that, and it ~ would be nice to know what kinds of u . _- . - _ _ --_- . _ _ _ _ _ _ - . - - _ - . _ _ _

r 20 f~

.m c2-6 1 themes are coming up and how frequently they are coming up 2 and items like that.

3 Q Do you know who prepared Goldstein Exhibit 3?

4 A No. I know it was prepared by Mr. Roisman's 5 office, but I don't know who actually did it.

6 Q Did you go from Goldstein Exhibit 3 back to the 7 forms to see if the raw data supported the summary.that was 8 provided?

9 A No. What I did was note that many of the themes 10 that I had seen throughout, coming up through there, also 11 appeared in the summary, but I didn't go back and start 12 counting, because that was the whole purpose of Mr. Roisman's 13 office doing it in the first place.

14 Q But you didn't randomly check his work?

15 A No, I did not.

16 Q Dr. Goldstein, was it your understanding that 17 Goldstein Exhibit 3 was to represent a balanced view of the 18 data in the surveys?

i 19 A Welt, a balanced view is kind of an unusual word 20 to use here.

21 Q Let me withdraw the question and try another one.

22 Dr. Goldstein, did you instruct Mr. Roisman or C

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( f 1 one of his colleagues'to identify themes that both supported 2 .and. contradicted'their; position in this case?

3 A .Yes, I'did. But the point reatLy is for me that-4 lthis is not what I would call a scientific survey. It 5 .tinvolvesf-- welL,:maybe-the word " scientific" is had to use

.s4' -here'. - , .

7 The. survey has problems related to it, and one of 8 the problems thatLit ?has related.to-it is that-it..is very 9 'open-ended,.and therefore the'best that'you can do with it

,_ , 10 is,,you:can go through it and.try to capture some.of the

'Q II content and everything else.

12 - So the purpose of the summary for me was simpty

~

- 13 .to-get an'overalL perception of some of the kinds of issues 14 that came up'there, not to give me a scientific analysis.of 15 - t ha t particular questionnaire, because if the kind of I' .i nformation that you have and-the way .it is collected is II shaky, welL, it is' fairly obvious that any summary of~it

' is going.to be shaky..

So I think that my impression of what l' asked-p

\-

n Mr. Roisman to do for me was to just give.me an overalL 21

. idea of-the kinds 1of - thing s that were coming up and o

'~ 22 approximately how frequently they were coming up. And_for me, A

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~1 it's,onty -- welL, if we talk about a needs assessment giving 2 us a picture, this thing'is giving me, you know, a little 3 piece;of,a photograph that just, you know, gives a little 4 Bft 6f_information, and that's the best you can say for it.

T

' ~

51 Q And this piece of. photograph may or may not be 6 i n~ f ocus; 'is that your- point?.

7 AL WelL, the problem with the focus is more dependent 8 upon the data in the questionnaire than it is on the summary, I because..if the questionnaire isn't totally focused, or gs 10 you can say that certain kinds.of themes are coming up, that

(

c) 11 cer'tain. issues are being presented, and you can-indicate 12 whether they are or aren't.- And just the way a person can 13 .w ander_through,a plant in a couple of days and get a feeling M -for, you know, whether more work-is needed, because there

, 15 m ight be issu es --

I mean,.that's.about the way I would see le this. T It gives you a feeling for what's going on.

II And it's clear that if you rea8ty wanted to know I8

.much more specificalLy than that, then somebody would have

"- to go in there and reatLy conduct a, full needs assessment.

I \

30

' .__/ -Q Dr. Goldstein, at the time you reviewed these 21

. summaries, was it your understanding that Mr. Roisman's D.

22 client was trying to prove that there was a pervasive 2

23 2-9 1 atmosphere of harassment and intimidation at the site?

2 A I guess I'm aware of the fact that there are many 3 people and CASE who have all different agendas. My agenda 4 relates to whether there are any particular issues that I can 5 speak to.

0 Q My question was, what was your knowledge of 7 Mr. Roisman's agenda?

8 A As far as his agenda was concerned 6:ith me, it 9 was only to ask me to refleet upon whether there were 10 psychological issues related to that and the extent to which II I could identify them from there and give my best 12 professional opinion about it.

I3 Q Dr. Goldstein, did you instruct Mr. Roisman or I4 his c6Lleagues to identify what the inspectors considered 15 to be the major problems at Comanche Peak in the questionnaire 16 responses?

II A I asked him to identify what the predominant 18 themes were.

19 Q Is it your recollection that the questionnaire speci f ically a sked inspectors to identify what they considered I

to be the major problems in QC at Comanche Peak?

2 22 A I don't recall that, but if you say it is so, I 23 wilL accept that.

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1 ,,MR. - DOWNEY: Madamo. Reporter, would you mark the, v - '

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J L2 questio'nnaires tihemselhes as~ GoldsIei'n l Exhibit 47-

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,,, 3- (The document referred to was

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' marked as Goldstein Exhibit No.

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4 for identification.)

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• E 4 BY MR. DOWNEY: ,

7 Q- Dr.:Goldstein, I would like you to review the top'

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packet in_Goldstein Exhibit 4. - '

3 ,

9 < (counsel handing document to witness.) ,

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10 Do you recognize that as what was represented to;

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7

- _11 you as.a questionnaire 1 response'from the.19_79' survey?

12 - 'A Yes, I do.  ;

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13 o O Dr.,Goldstein,'I direct your attention to page 10

, M' . of that first: document, through page 11 of that first document, 218 . in. Goldstein' Exhibit 4. And most particularly. the first 14 - question. Do you now recall. that-tho question was asked of

,. . 17 ' ' inspectors to identify the major problems at comanche Peak?

18 7 4 AL Yes,Ethat's one of the questions. .

M That. question does say major problemn, yon. i

'j .

38 Q' And did you direct any,special attention to that -

21 ' particular question in providing guidanco to the people who

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d . 22 '  ; propared Goldstein Exhibit 37 l I

___m__._,_1_-_. ._.__.a._.

5-sy31b2 h

1 A No, I did not.

2 O Dr. Goldstein, in providing direction to the peoplo 3 who prepared Goldstoin Exhibit 3, did you request that they 4 identify responses that indicated that there was no problem with 5 harassment or intimidation at Comancho Peak?

6 A I don't recall if I did.

7 An I recall, they woro to identify the kinds of a thomes which they woro concerned about and the degroo to which 9 they woro occurri'ng in a gonoral nummary viewpoint.

10 0 Dr. Goldstein, do you recall how long after your 11 convornation with Mr. Roisman you received Goldatein Exhibit 37 12 A I would say not longer than a wook.

13 0 And within Goldstein Exhibit 3, I neo four suparato 14 packota. And the first one han boon marked, by the court 15 Reportor, an Goldntoin Exhibit 3 and thoro in no dato on the le top. Tho second indicaton, given to Goldatoin 8-10-84, doon 17 that conform to your recollectica?

18 A That would be approximately correct. I mean, I 19 couldn't really be nuro.

20 Q And tho third and fourth packotn are indicated, 21 given to Goldatoin 8-13-84. Doon that roughly conform with 22 your recollection?

h 26 i-Ly31b3 1 A That could very well be. I was getting material 2- all the time, so I didn't log-it in.

3 MR. DOWNEY: Madame Reporter, could you mark the 4 three packets -- excuse me, the four packets, which you have 5 marked as Goldstein Exhibit 3, as Goldstein Exhibit 3A. The 6 second packet is Goldstein Exhibit 3B, 3C, and 3D.

7 (The documents referred to were 8 marked as Goldstein Exhibits 9 No. 3A, 3B, 3C, and 3D for 10 identification.)

11 BY MR. DOWNEY:

12 Q Mr. Goldstein, when you received the 1979 surveys, 13 you also received the 1983 surveys, is that correct?

14 A I believe that's correct.

15 0 In your 'prefifhd testimony, you indicate -- in the 16 verylastquestiononpahe18ofGoldsteinExhibit1--that 17 it's difficult to judge aboub,what problems were revealed 18 there~bacause you were uncertain as to the procedures used N

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19 ~for co1 ecting data. -Is that'right?'

.. ~s 20' .Yes.

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21 j Q What'pr6cedures do you need to know about, in order 22-i

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y31b4 r 4 1 A Well, again, it's -- there's a lot of open-endedness 2 to it and I don't know the procedures used in obtaining how 3 the questionnaire was developed, whether an appropriate 4 needs assessment was done to identify what the exact issues 5 were that were to be addressed, how the questions were therefore 6 designed in a way that can give you a valid picture of what 7 is going on, what kind of assurances were given to people who 8 w ere filling it out, under what conditions they filled it out, 9 how the people felt who were filling it out, you know, all 10 the kinds of safeguards that go into making it more likely 11 that you're going to.get an accurate representation of the 12 organization.

13 And I didn't have that information.

14 Q And what is your understanding, Dr. Goldstein, 15 of the procedures used-in the 1979 survey?

' 16 A I have the same-questions about 1979 survey, but 17 you are asking an~ additional question when you say -- when you 18 ask well how much does the 1979 survey represent reality and 19 you're asking how much does the 1983 thing represent reality.

M And then you're asking what the changes are between 1979 and 21 1983. It's a much more sophisticated questionnaire issue.

. 22 Q My question is not that sophisticated. It is just

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t v-s._b Twhat is your understanding'about how the 1979. survey was done?-

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A II don't have any' understanding.of how it-was done.

3 0 :Did you-:make"any. inquiries of'Mr. Roisman about s

4 how:it was done?. ,

5_ A We might have generally' talked about it. It was 6' justit5 king a look.a the questionnaire, the questions,.

7- . repetition of some-of the particular kinds of issues and (3 answer structure.and everything else, you know, just led me

'9' to'believe that it was a home-grown questionnaire.

_. ' 10 L .Q- Dr. Goldstein, what-other, materials di~d you receive '

. '-) 11'

~ '

--- if you . recall --- following your conversation with Mr. Roismar t ,

.12 the;.second conversation you'had with his' organization'? . You' .

f13 have~ identified'~the :two survey; packets.

14 . 'A ; Yes. Eventually,I received all'of the materials 151 rsitting'here. What order' I' : received them 3i n, I really don't 16 _have the faintest. idea.-.

7

- 17- Q. Mr.;Goldstein, when did you report'back to-2

' 18 Mr. ~ Roisman'sforganization,.cohcerning-yo r views on'what' -

'thepsychological"issuesmightbe(bathiscase?

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'l 20 - .~A ; -In'part, we.~were! discussing that alllthe'way.through.

f21' You know, as I received more!information, I ventured various

.(. -

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'22 : -kinds..of opinions.,

29 Ey31b6

) Q Mr. Goldstein, with respect to those opinions that

. ./

2 you ventured, would you identify please what you have identifiec.

3 as the psychological issues in this case?

4 A Oh, I think the psychological issues in this caso 5 are discussed in my written testimony. And they really relate 6 to how people learn from the question of whether 1* an incident 7 occurred in an organization, whether persons are likely to 8 learn anything from that particular incident. That was 9 a major psychological issue that was being discussed.

_. 10 Q Did you identify, for Mr. Roisman, any other l

11 Psychological incues?

12 A Well, they all relate to that.

nd3 13 14 15 16 ,

1 i

17 l

18 19 20 21

/ 22

c 30 '

-y41bl 1 Q Mr. Goldstein, did you prepare Goldstein Exhibit 1, 2 your written testimony?

3 A I don't know what you mean.

4 Q Did you write it, author it?

5 A No, I verbally gave it, into a tape recorder, and 6 it was then typed and I checked it.

7 Q Who asked the questionn?'

8 A Mr. Roisman.

9' Q Dr. Goldstein --

10 MR. ROISMAN: Excuse me, Bruce. I noticed that in i

,/

11 the pile of things that were here in front of you, which were 12 the part of what Dr. Goldsteir had been given by us, 13 inadvertantly, a fifth piece of what you are now calling 14 - Goldstein Exhibit 3 - .which is another summary, this-one of 15 ~ the 1983 data, I believe -- was also, or should have been 16 included in that package.

17 And if you want to ask the witness if that was 18 one of them and have it marked as 3E.

19 BY MR. DOWNEY:

20 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you recall receiving the paper 21 -- this summary that I'm about to ask the court reporter to

'/

- 22 mark as Goldstein Exhibit 3E?

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'2 (The document referred to was 3'- marked as Goldstein Exhibit 4; .No. 3E for identification.)

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5 BY .MR. D OWNEY :

,6 'Q Dr. Goldstein, at page~9 of your written testimony,

^

7- you indicate that you.are familiar with the. facts, or.you

, s' 'have reviewed'.the facts associated'with the Atchison firing, 9' ;as found by-the Secretary of-' Labor. Do you ecall.the

j. - ,10 Itestimony about1that?

r

11 A Yes','I do..

12' -Q- What'isiyour. understanding of the. facts, as'found 13  : bylthe Secretary'of Labor?

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>Well', I haven',t' memorized (all the facts.

~

14 .Ac 'I just I15 ' ,reddSthem be' fore.that particular' testimony.and responded to

~

16- whether per~ sons _would learn anything from tha't particular-

~

17 ' .. kind of; incident-. So, .I_mean,'I guess:I could give you my 18 generalzsummary of.:some of.the facts involving Atchison.

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' - 19 :. -Q' Can(you.ide'ntify for me, in,the materials, those

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Q 20 items that. yo'u .rhad concern'ing Mr. Atchison? '

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32

'41b3 1 MR. ROISMAN: Let's just go off the record a 2 second.

3 (Discussion off the record.)

4 BY MR. DOWNEY:

5 Q Dr. Goldstein, is the packet of materials that 6 I'm handing you -- including all the materials that you 7- reviewed about Mr. Atchison -- except for the decision of the 8 S ecretary of Labor?

9 A I have no idea. It includes some of the materials.

10 Whether it includes all the materials, I couldn't tell.

11 Q And do you recall seeing each of those items in 12 your review of the Atchison events?

i 13 A Well, I recall seeing these items. I think I have 14 seen all of them, but I am not positive.

15 As a matter of fact, the Dunham thing is in here, 16 with the Atchison things.

17 Q Well, let's identify those that refer to Mr.

18 Atchison.

~

19 Dr. Goldstein, do you recall reviewing the recommended 20 decision of the ALJ?

21 A Yes, at one time, I looked through some of this.

I x/ 22 Q And immediately prior to your testimony, did you e

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2 A_ Well, I-looked at a lot"of stuff, and I looked at

'a number.offthings'about Atchison and that was probably one

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-- 4 L fof:the thingsithat I 16oked at. -

5 0- Mr.-Goldstein,.you testify at page 9 of'your. written 6 f testimony ~ that the' Ntchison .thingl- in your judgment '- : the

. 7_ Atchison incident, in youriju'dgment' represent an-example of

.the kind of concerns expressed in the 1979 surveys. Do you

~

8

-+

'. 9 recall' that? testimony?.-

• gj 10 A; . Y e s , L I '. d o .

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11:. -Q Which documents did you rely dpon,>in forming that:

12' . j udgment? ~

13 l .A' I looked at that document. I probably; looked at isomc!

Ili , other documents related to Atchison. I considered -it an examplc:

~ ~

-15 .of the kinds of, things,'a'nd I'am making assumptions'that the.

16' ' incident _is as reported.

,, 17 Q. So you cannot: identify.the-specific matters that 18 . you reviewed - and relied- upon in offering f the . testimony on page 19 9,.about. Charles Atchison?

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A' Oh, I can ? identify some of them, but you know, I

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l21- don't know,which ones I read at.any particular. point in time.

22 . LBut I did read /some' things:about'Atchison befo're I gave that E

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(2- .Q ,

.And'on'e-6f the' things you. read is this document, f3- which the-Court Reporter can. mark as Goldstein Exhibit 5?

4 (The document referred to was- -

15 marke'd as Goldstein Exhibit

~

-6 No'. 5.for identification.)

MR.-DOWNEY:-' This is the' recommended' decision of.

~

. c7 8- -the' Secretary of Labor, the rec 6mmended decisi~on~of-the ALJ--

9 'in the Atchison' case.-.

.,x . ' 10 .

BY MR. DOWNEY:

.g ). .

LDofyou recall reading-the Atchison -- or.in your;

~

114 'Q

- 15 ~ ~Atchisoncrevi'ew,.the~ briefs.of Mr. Atchison'dicounsel?-

Y

'1 131 'A No.

a..

14- - Q :' Do you' recall ^ reading the,decisionJof.-the Secretary 15< Lof Labor?-

.-16 .A~ In~~ general.

-17 EQ; 'And.do you recall' reading-the~ newspaper articles 18 ;about Mr. Atchison?

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19 _ A 'In general.-

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20 0 Can you identify which of these sources of materials 21.. fyou relied upon -ini giving yo6r answer, on page 9 of .your, _

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-22 written testimony?

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35 Ty41b6 l

1 A No, because for me, the question is whether that is 2 an example of the kind of incident, if it occurred, as to 3 whether persons would learn from it in an organization. And 4 that is all I'm saying. I'm not trying to memorize the case 5 of Atchison or what all the different people said about 6 Atchison, or generally what kind of incident was it.

7 And is it an example of the kinds of incidents that 8 people would learn from if indeed it occurred as reported.

9. Q Your testimony then, is if it occurred as reported 10 in the-documents you read, the Atchison incident would be 11 a kind of incident that was identified in the summary prepared 12 by Mr. Roisman's office as a theme in-the 1979 surveys, is 13 that right?

14 A No, it is the kind of incident, if it occurred as 15 reported, that would lead people to make statements similar 16 to those reported in that questionnaire.

17 Q Or at least reported in the summaries of the 18 questionnaires?

19 A Or reported in the summaries. I read the 20 questionnaires first.

21 Q So your testimony about Mr. Atchison all assumes 22 the facts that you read to be true?

36

y41b7

_.I 1 A Absolutely.

2 0 And that-is the same with Mr. Ilamilton?

3 .A Absolutely.

4 Q And the same with Ms. Neumeyer?

5 A Yes, that's correct.

6 Q And the same with Mr. Dunham?

7 A That's' correct. I did not conduct a study of it.

8 -Q Dr. Goldstein, in offering your testimony about 9 these various incidents, did you read Draft Proposed Findings

- 10 'of Fact prepared by Mr. Roisman's office?

( ,

~

A

~

-11 Is that this stack? - ,

12 findicating.)

13 MR.:ROISMAN: _ No, that is this stack.

14 (Indicating.)

15 THE WITNESS: I' glanced through all that material 16 and I, at one time or'another, read it.

'_nd4 '17 18 19

._f 20 21

___ 22

37 agc5-1 I

I BY MR. DOWNEY

2 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you r e c a l'l testimony about t'h e 3 T-shirt incident? And I refer you to page 10 of your 4 prefited testimony.

5 A Yes.

6 Q Do you recall from what sources you learned the 7 facts th't a you rely upon in offering your testimony about 8 the T-shirt incident?

9 A Well, the T-shirt incident, I believe, was more 10 a verbal report of an incident from Mr. Roisman and Ms. Garde.

II At a later time,JI read some materials related to that incident, 12 which I think is called the Stanford incident; is that right?

13 Q No. I believe that is a separate incident.

I4 A Okay, wait. I later read materials in this 15 book, which is --

16 Q That book is the proposed findings of fact of 17 the Intervenor, CASE, right?

18 A- That's correct.

19 Q Do you recall, Dr. Goldstein, reviewing the

-? materials that have been marked for identification as 21 Goldstein Exhibit 6?

- .22

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L1. (The documents referred to I'l\ssl 2 were marked collectively as 3-' Goldstein' Exhibit No. 6 for 4 identification.)

5 -AL '(No response.)

% -6 !Q-' Dr. Goldstein, I ask you to review the document 7 marked forcidentification as Goldstein Exhibit 6. .

8~ A. Yes, I did read ~this.

9 Q ~And is-that ~ the material'you read prior to giving

.f q 10 yl our Lt e st imony_ a bou t : t he T-s hi r t incident, that appears at lJ 11' 'page 10 of'.your' written testimony?

' 12 - A It could very welL be.

13 Q Do'you have any'different recollection?

- ~ 14 '

AL 'I. don't have any .different recollection, but there 15 was a Lot'of verbal-discussion.related to the T-shirt

~

16  : incident- bef ore my testimony, where it was described'to me 17 . b'y' M s . Ga r d e ~ ' a nd ' M r . Roisman, I.think on a c'ouple of occa sions.

'18 Q Would you describe for us, please, what they

'I'

- told you aboute the- T-shirt ' incident, a s best you recall it,.

(

20

- ~

3ppjor.to your testimony?

-21 A 'WelL, basically 7a number of individuals ended up n

22 wearing'T-shirts;which essentially said that they were b- .~

39 Egc5-3

I nitpickers. The T-shirt says

something about being a 2 nitpicker. It's hard for me to tell what came from documents 3 that I read and what came from' discussions, but as it was 4 presented, it was an indication that these individuals were 5 feeling that the atmosphere in that particular organization 6 was such that they were viewed as nitpickers, so they wore 7 these particular shirts.

8 Eventually they were called in concerning these 9 shirts. There is a lot of back-and-forth testimony as to --

7 10 I guess as to what was said, but there is some testimony

)

Il saying that they were told to go home and change the T-shirts, 12 and I think there were also comments in it that some of the 13 people who were wearing the T-shirts just happened to be the 14 same' individuals who might get transferred.

15 Q Were any representations made to you about the 16 criteria applied in determining who would be transferred from 17 this particular group of inspectors?

18 A Not to me.

II Q Dr. Goldstein, do you know whether any of the 20

_ people involved in the T-shirt incident actually testified 21 in this proceeding?

22 I don't have the faintest idea.

A

~

40 c:gc5-4 l 1 Q Do you have.any knowledge of what their testimony 2 was?

3 A No.

4 Q And the basis for your testimony on page 10 of 5 Goldstein Exhibit 1 is what you were told by counsel for 6 the Intervenor in conversations with you and perhaps what 7 you may have read in Goldstein Exhibit 6; is that right?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you recall testifying about an 10 incident involving Sue Ann Neumeyer? And I refer you to

~~~'

11 page 11 of your prefited testimony, Goldstein Exhibit 1.

12 A Yes. I testified on that as an example.

13 Q And do you recall what sources you drew upon for 14 the information you used in offering the testimony about 15 Ms. Neumeyer?

16 A WelL, I'm not sure if Ms. Neumeyer was one that 17 was described to me at that particular time or one that I 18 read about. But if'it wa s described to me, I did read about l9 it later.

20

- Q You mentioned earlier the Stanford incident.

21 Do you recall Learning about that incident?

-f 22 A I'm sure if I came up with the words " Stanford

41

?-5 v->

I 2( ) incident," somewhere along the way I read about it in this 2 pile of materials.

3 Q And do you recall any of the specific incidents 4 that were described to you either in the materials or by 5

counsel for the Intervenor concerning Ms. Neumeyer?

6 A WelL, again, I can't telL you whether my present 7

recollection is based upon conversations with them or what 8 I do recall that there was something in what I read I read.

9 about the fact that Ms. Neumeyer felt that she should not --

10 and I'm not sure whether this is the right term or not --

~_/

.)

II but' write NCRs on major' things, she should only write the.

12 on minor things, and she felt that she should do that becnase 13 she was discouraged from reporting the major incidents by, I guess it would be her supervisor, whoever was responsible 15 .

for it.

16 But there were a series of' incidents reported 17 related to that.

18 Q Do you recall being told that she.was directed 19 to write the Standford NCR by her supervisor?

A I don't recall that.

MR. DOWNEY: Dr. Goldstein, I would like the

(> 22 .

court reporter to mark first two documents that you have

42

g c S-6 I handed me as Goldstein Exhibits 7 and 8.

2 (The documents referred to 3 were marked Goldstein 4 Exhibit Nos. 7 and 8 for 5

identification.)

6 BY MR. DOWNEY:

7 Q I will ask you'to review those and ask you if 8 -those are the two. documents that you recall reviewing about 9 ~

Sue' Ann Neumeyer prior to your testimony, marked as 10 Go ld st ei n Exhibit.1.

II A I did review these. Whether I reviewed both of 12 them prior to my testimony, I am really not sure, but I have 13 Looked at-them at some time or another.

I4 Q And you also recall discussing the Sue Ann Neumeyer 15 matter with counsel for the Intervenor in this case?

I6 A I'm not_sure whether I discussed it with counsel 17 or not.

18 Q Do you know of any other sources of information 19 you had about Ms. Neumeyer prior to your testimony, other 20

.than Exhibits 7 and 8 and conversation with counsel?

21 A No.

'~ 22 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you recall testifying about an

43 6-7 I incident involving Robert Messerty?

2 A Yes, I do.

3 Q Can you identify those materials that you 4

reviewed prior to your testimony about the Messerly matter?

5 A Well, the Messerly matter was described to me 6

by the attorneys, and at a later time I-did read a report of it.

8 Q The only information you had prior to your 9

testimony was an oral report by attorneys for Intervenor?

10 A That's correct.

~

11 Q Do you recall the substance of what they told 12 you about that matter?

13 A 'As I recall the substance, Messerly described an 14 incident that he had viewed where a quality control inspector 15 appeared to be physically harassed or intimidated or 16 threatened by another individual.

17 Q And?

18 A And as I recall, Messerly also said something 19 about after that incident, there not being as many tags or 20 something like that.

21 Q And so your testinony on Mr. Messerly is based on what you have just described for us?

(

44 5-8 1 A Approximately, yes.

2 Q Dr. Goldstein, can you identify the materials

~

3 that you reviewed in testifying about the Dunham incident 4 that is reported at page 10 of your prefiled testimony?

5 (Pause.)

6 (A series of documents were 7 marked Goldstein Exhibit

-8 Nos. 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 9 and 14 for identification.)

10 MR. DOWNEY: The court reporter has just marked 3

11 for identification a series of materials concerning 12 William Dunham. Marked for identification as Goldstein 13 Exhibit 9, this report to David Chapman, the subject -- it I4 is dated October 25, 1983 -- the subject, " Investigation 15 into Allegations Made by W.A. Dunham and Concerns Expressed 16 Related to Protective Coatings."

II Goldstein Exhibit 10 is complainant's post-hearing 18 brief in the case, Dunham vs. Brown & Root, Inc.

Goldstein Exhibit 11 is titled "Only Dunham."

20 And I wiLL ask counsel to stipulate that it is a draft of 2I proposed findings of fact prepared by CASE.

7 22 MR. ROISMAN: Yes, I so stipulate.

45

>:gc5-9 j 1 MR. DOWflEY: Goldstein Exhibit 12 also appears 2 to be a draft of proposed findings of fact prepared by the 3 Intervenor, CASE, in this proceeding.

4 MP. ROISMAN: Y e s.- To better identify what these 5 are, these are taken from_the deposition of Mr. Dunham that 6 was taken in the Department of' Labor case,~as opposed to 7 the transcript of the. hearing.

8 MR.~DOWNEY: Goldstein Exhibit 13 is a copy of 9 the signed deposition of William A. Dunham, uith his errata

,, 10 sheet, and I would like his errata sheet marked separately 11 as Gol'dstein Exhibit 13-A.

12 (The document referred to was 13 marked Gold s t ein Exhibit I4 No. 13-A for identification.)

15 MR. DOWNEY: Goldstein Exhibit 14 is a 16 handuritten set of materials, .18 pages long.

I7 And Goldstein Exhibit 15 is a two-by-two yellow 18 sticker that_was on top of the Exhibit Goldstein 14.

19 End 5 N

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Goldstein Exhibits 14;and15fwere prepared'by employees'of l Trial ' Lawyers /for- Public - Justice .'-

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p 4) ' ,- "BY iMR ._ DOWNEY :

- 5 ~

Can you' identify.Goldstein-Exhibits 9.through 15

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g6 as m'at'erials you reviewed prior to,yo'ur testimony about

, s I7 ' William Dunham?

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A. Yes.

9' Q_ Do you recall reviewingfall of..those' materials

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A' Well, I-glanced at'them. ,

. 112 'that:I read all of them.- As a matter of fact, I?would'be 7; .  ; 13 . "certain.that I;didlnot read all'of them.

14 IMr. Goldstein, I would ask you to read Goldstein'

/Q _

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'15 -Exhibit.l5.

L16 'A ~ " Bill'Dunham is a: witness who was terminated'from'-

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his job.as-QC lead inspector last year for raising safety" --

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i 20 ' Mr. Dunham's claim, upon-~which your testimony is based?=

21 A I think'that is probably,a fair understanding of' 22 Mr.1Dunham's claim, yes.

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Ini. preparing?,your testimony, did yon' read.the

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[ 21 I Q- Dr.cGoldstein, do you recall which materials you'

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(reviewed?initestifying about Robert Hamilton?

The-testimony.

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- :3: .Q ,.Yes..

I 41 LA I know I-read some materials:on_ Hamilton.. I.would l

_5 ;have ' to .g'o and find lthem. l I,will try to do so.

.6 : Q,

_ All right, please do.

, , . 1.7 : -(Pause.)

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L8 (Discussion off the record.)

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, .MR. DOWNEY: : The parties,.- during- the ' recess,f-subject

,hq.  ; 10 .- to'Dr. Goldstein's-veto, agreed.to stipulate!that the materials Ebl.

11 that he was : shown were parts of ; orders of the - ASLB: in this il2 - , proceeding,' dated' September! 2 3 ,-. 1 9 8 3 and October 25iJ1983.

(13 .I will $inquire .of ^ counsei, ..if you have. a recollection of

.14-

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which portions of.those orders.Dr.:Goldstein was shown?J

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. 15 MR;-ROISMAN:. 'I:think that he was sho'n'all w the:

'16 iportionsithat: relate to the Hamiltons, and' I know that he had': some

c. s.

, - 17 ~ tof them'related to cordelia, as.well !as related to Bob.

.. 18 i What he - would ~ not : have ' had, f or certainly wouldn' t' have been

- II .directedi ot t'ake'a-look at,--were any. portions of those orde'rs f^n , . . .

(j 20 - that.related'to. things that didn't have to do with.Hamiltons p[1g h 4 ~ 21

-at.all.

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7 49 Ey6'lb4-i BY MR. DOWNEY:

2 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you recall reviewing proposed 3 findings of fact of CASE concerning Bob Hamilton?

4 MR. ROISMAN: What time frame?

5 BY MR. DOWNEY:

6 Q Prior to giving your testimony?

7 A No.

8 Q Dr. Goldstein, on page 11 of your testimony, you 9 have testified that you reviewed some facts concerning a 10' QA' audit report. Do you have the materials that you relied 11 upon-in offering that testimony?

12 Mr. Goldstein, I am showing you two documents, one 13 handwritten and one.a typewritten report. Do you recognize 14 those-two materials as the materials that you read?

15 - A Yes, I do.

16 Q I would ask counsel to stipulate that the 17 handwritten materials were those prepared by Mr. Roisman or 18 his associates.

19 MR. ROISMAN: That is correct.

20 MR. DOWNEY: I will ask the reporter to mark the 21 handwritten document as Goldstein Exhibit 16 and the typewritten 22 document as Goldstein Exhibit 17.

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4 -- BY'MR. DOWNEY:

, 151 Q' Dr. Goldstein, do pu -recall receiving any verbal-

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, 61 reports;from counsel-about the-QA Audit Report?

_ . 7 ;. _A .Oh, I'm.sure.

73 ; , Q You're~sure that you did?'

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.9' 'A- I'm sure that I did..

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110: !Q Dof,you recall receiving any verbal reports from-W; /. '

11- , counsel concernin.g Bob .IIamilton? '

.[.12: 'A I am 'not. positive. We'did discuss'a number of 13 -  ; incidents. .I may very well --i they. very well have. made; a 14 ' pre'sentationjrelated to1those also.

F 15 .Q- Dr. ,- Goldstein, ' apart .- from - those ' incident's :about

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16 ; which .you . testified, were -you- briefed on any other incidents .

thatlhappened-at Comanche Peak and asked to. testify about'those?

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17c 1 18 . .A -Andl asked'to testify?-

19 - -Q- -Letime ask, first; :Were you briefed about' incidents

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.21;' A( .The name is. familiar, so it is possible that I either

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.: 2 - 30 And'do you~ recall -- were you asked whether'the-

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1A' As' indicated,in my~ written report, there is no ,

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Did you report and testify about every incident you

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v asked what.you thought the facts

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things that h'e has not testified about and that is within our-

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him .about ,, -

what he did testify about.

i.You are calling him as your expert on the Linda >Barnes event -

t 5= .and that is clearly..beyond the scope of_what is permissible.

[ . ~ d- You'are aSking for.him to;give you.information on that, and' r .

7 n.I'have beenLvery~ generous in letting you-get.this far, and I'm i

1 73 not going to let you go any_further.

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j MR. DOWNEY:' I don't think that you've been all

.;l; .. 10_ ' that: generous,' Tony. I thinkLI was entitled to eve. hing-1 , )v' I" >

I've asked ! for, solfar.

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MR._ROISMAN: _ No,'I'mean-insofar a's the Linda Barnes

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, 15' .. discovery to ask if he-rendered to you an opinion.on the .

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, M ' Linda Barnes incident..-That'is a fact.

' 17 .MR.SROISMAN: First of'all', he has already told.you

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18 that he didn't, so that takes care of'it. I'let you ask him

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20- MR.!DOWNEY: 'Well, .let me make sure that we're clear 21  ; o n that.

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2 Q- .Did you,-Dr. Goldstein, render an opinion-to 3~ iMr..Roisman'or'one of'hi.3 colia ogues, about whether the

'4 - l Linda Barn'es incident was the kird of incident which concerns 5 ~o fithe type you found-in the 1979 surveys were raised?

i "6- A. Do you want me to. respond?

e fg ?7 MR. ROISMAN: Yes, it's okay.

y 8 THE WITNESS: If it isn't in the report, I wasn't J

9' asked.-

g 10 - BY MR.~ DOWNEY:

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But did you volunteer that_'information?

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.14 - MR. DOWNEY: Well, 'f_it:hasi been asked and answered, o6

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17. Llet's have the' answer to it.

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y  : 18 MR. ROISMAN: I like it just the ' way it sits.

3 19 4 BY MR. DOWNEY:

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(f; 20 ' -Q 'Dr. Goldstein, did -- I will withdraw that question.

21 ~

, Dr. Goldstein, did you execute a written agreement

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V 22 with-counsel for CASE -- Mr.:Roisman and his group?

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.BY MR. DOWNEY:

-;[]' LI:

M _..

_'2' 'Q -Dr..Goldstein, did-you provide Mr. Roisman or

~3 his' office-with any written expression of your' views about

~4 { E h'e ina t e r i a'l s' t ha t y'o u reviewed?-' ,

'S A- No. ,

r ,

.6 :Q; Did.you provide Mr.(Roisman your, views'on subjects-7-  : be yo nd. . wh i c h - yo'u have~. testified?

,  : 1 -- ;84 -MR. ROISM'A :

Objeht{on. I asked him.about how

9' - I : g'o t.-- t o t he. r i g h t 1 p la c e ~ t o park.. .He gave me his views on

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11 -MR'. DOWNEY

' I will withdraw-that.

/12 . BY MR. DOWNEY:

I -13 'Q

. Dr. Go ld st ei n, did ~ you o f f eri a ny'- p rof e s si ona l-

'i 14i .opinio~ns to Mr'.2Roisman beyond tho'se'asitoiwhich you..have l z15[ t e s t i f i ed' "i n' Go'ld s t e i n ~ Exhibit.1?

That is.such an open-en'ded question, I.donft

,16 ' LA' 17i ;knowI how:you expect me to respond to that.

- I mean, we ha' d 18 : ~ hours oficonversation.

bl9

'Q -

Did you' provide him with'your views on any

,7 ij . 20 V incidents involv'ing any' specific people beyond those as.to.

r.-

121 .w hi c 'h' you _ ha v e -.t e s t i f i eo in.Goldstein Exhibit 1?

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!MR. ROISMAN: Object for the same reason.

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57 7-2

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1 MR. DOWNEY: Which is?

u-2 MR. ROISMAN: That I don't believe you are

-3 entitled to have the answer to that question.

4 BY MR. DOWNEY:

5 Q Dr. Goldstein, you have testified that you 6 provided your views and your judgment about whether certain 7- incidents described in your t e s t i mocey were the kinds of 8 incidents from which people learned certain things on the 9 job site; is that right? ~

s 10 A That is correct.

11 Q Did you provide views on subjects beyond 12 professional judgments beyond learning behavior on the job 13 site?

14 A I don't reaLly think so. I mean, I think most 15 of my -- most of my discussions with Mr. Roisman were 16 related to how people learn, and that's it.

17 Q And you reviewed specific incidents which you 18 thought could be examples of that learning behavior?

19 A That's correct.

-s 20 Q And your judgment about those incidents being 21 the kinds of things from.which people learn were based solely

- 22 on the facts as represented to you in these materials that

58

-3

I we have gone through; is that right?

s 2 MR. ROISMAN: Just a moment. I think you may 3 be-confusing the witness when you waved your hand at these 4 materials we have gone through. There is a whole pile of 5 'other stuff that is still sitting over there that hasn't 6 made~it up to the pile yet.

7 BY MR. DOWNEY:

8 Q Dr. Goldstein, in testifying about Mr. Messerly, 9 for example, you relied upon the representations of counsel

, 10 for your facts; is that right?

( '

11' A That's correct.

12 MR. ROISMAN: These are all going to be asked 13 :and answ red?. ,

14 MR. DOWNEY: No. I'm going to pick up, Tony.

15 BY MR. DOWNEY:

16 Q And if those facts were incorrect or inaccurate, 17 could that change your testimony?

18 A Of course.

19 Q And wouldfthat.not also be true with each of the

) 2L incidents that we have described -- the audit' report, 21

~

the Neumeyer incident, the T-shirt incident,-the damilton

, m.

22' incident, the Atchison and Dunham inciocnts?

59

_ -4 1 A Yes.

2 MR. DOWNEY: Thank you for indulging me those 3 compound questions, Tony.

4 MR. ROISMAN: That's all right. I could see where 5 we would go if_we didn't do.that. We'd be here until the 6 end or the day.

7 (Laughter.)

8~ BY MR.-DOWNEY:

'I Q Dr. Goldstein, I refer you to page 8 of your

-, 10 prefiled testimony.

II A Yes?

12 Q SpecificalLy with Point 1 in the question on

.13 page 8, do you know of any specific examples where people I4 were fired for reporting safety problems at Comanche Peak?

15 -

A It may very well be that in that entire pile of 16 stuff there was such an' incident reported, but, I mean, I' I7 The same thing for alL the ican't telL you that right now.

18 rest.

19 Q So in this case, your testimony was based 20 strictly on a hypothetical situation. Being fired is the 21 kind of negative response that would lead to learning

( 22 behavior and inhibit people from making reports.

l

60 c 7-5 1 A Correct.

v 2 Q And that is irrespective of whether or not such 3 an incident occurred?

4 A Correct.

5 Q Dr. Goldstein, have you done any professional 6 work with businesses in the nuclear industry prior to this 7- case?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Which companies?

. - -x 10 A It is not a company.

/

11 Q What organization?

12 A Batelle and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

13 Q And have you studied the work force at any 14 particular nuclear power plant, a prof essional study?

15 A That study involves a group of maybe twenty or so 16 utilities.

17 Q Can you identify some of them?

18 A No.

I9 Q You just don't recall them?

s-3 A Well, I have run panels where the utilities have 21 been present, because we were doing a job analysis. They

'- 22 were representatives of the industry. I remember Yankee

61

, -6 I something-or-other in Maine. Another one in Delaware called --

2 whatever it's called. And certainly Calvert Cliffs in 3 Maryland.

4 Q Is this work making presentations to members 5 of the company? Is that the kind of work you did?

6 A No. I'm doing a job analysis.

7 Q Of what job?

8 A The SRO and'the,RO, the reactor operator and the 9 senior reactor op.erator, for licensing.

,- 10 Q And apart from your work on the job analysis of i

~

11 reactor operators and senior reactor operators, have you 12 done any professional studies of work forces at nuclear power 13 plants?

14 A No.

15 Q And have you done any of a nuclear construction 16 site?

17 No.

A 18 Q Dr. Goldstein, I refer you to page 14 of your I9 prefiled testimony, and specifically the last question on I N the page.

21 If I were to ask you, ba sed on what you know about 22 the Vermont Yankee plant, could you say there was not a major 1

' 62 V- u

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c g v/-7, L ( ,,). 1 lproblemnin QC-personnet feeling that they were not able to

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freely: car ~ry out their' work?

3I A' I don' t ' have' the .f aintest idea.

4E . 'Q - So,it wouldn't be possible.for you to sayuthat?-

5

~

lA. No. I.didn't doza needs1 assessment there. ,

6 Q . And you haven't done one here; .is that right?

L7 ~A That's correct.

'8

, Q' So it woul'dn't be possible for you to' answer

'I thatLquestion aff.irmatively? -

10 Which question.

.f4 q,7 A~

- II tQ~ The Last question on page.14.

~

. 12 A WelL, I answered it there.

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'I3 Q I know. But^myn, question,is/>you?could. not answer s - -

. t t ha t l que s t ion .init he, a f f i rma t iv e wi t h'. r espec t~ to any; power

~

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15 plant-in the United.~7 States;sisn'_t"that-correc't?

. + -

I' MR. ROISMAN: That is cross-examination. You

--17 ~

r-are' going'to have your-chance'to ask him"that. Butfthis is-I8

. .theEnose of the camel in the cent.

- 19

~ (Discussion off'the record.)

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BY MR. .DOWNEY:

' 21-

. Q~ Dr. Goldstein, you testified about a needs

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. assessment -- I think you-called it a study. Now the needs ,

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_. 'sn O'N 7 L) 11 ~ assessment is your ~ testimony -- that'is in_your testimony; 2 ;is that right?

. 3 A Are yo'uLreferring to the '79 and '83 studies?

4 '~ .Q ~ LNo. _ I'm .ta lki ng aboutethe' study that you

' S proposed ti undertake or that could be undertaken to answer 6 ithe; question on'page 141of your-written testimony.

7, - _The' question that you say-you cannotaanswdn is

'8 -on pag'e 147-I A ' Correct.

y 10 Q AndLyou then go on to explain how-that' question

(,(

' II can;be_ answered;,is that right?

' 12 A 'That - is -- I mean,-I offer some general views 13 on what:needs to be done in order to answer the question.

I4 Q

~

And how would_you select the QC inspectors to 15

under.take suc'h a needs assessment?

216 A' You don't go in and select QCs.

' II Q . Wh'o do you. select?

LIS A WelL, the process of doing a needs assessment is-a' fair.ly complex process'that involves going in and working

.m

'J with representatives and facets.of the organization and

-21' setting 1up the. appropriate guidelines to ensure that the

,' C) '

'~# - 22

. study.can.be. carried out properly.

64 7-9 cm

) l' Certainly the organization is involved. Working 2 with these facets of the organization might-be' called a 3 . liaison-team. Certainly they are involved to some extent.

4 You have-to know the organization before you know who you're 5 selecting.

6 Q So you first study the organization?

7 A That's part of the needs assessment.

8 Q And you do testify, do you not, that in your 9

-study, you would interviewlQC inspectors, that you would 10 contemplate such interviews?

s II A If I say something like that, it's an example of I2 'the kinds of people who would be interviewed, and I can't 13 d esign a study without knowing anything about the organization.

I4 Q Is random. selection one way you might select IS people for interview?

16 A I doubt it.

II Q How would you?

18 A I mean, what you want, the question of random 19 selection speaks to representativeness of~the pe r so n s,

( _

.and what you have to do is' determine what representativeness 21 means. If you get representativeness by using random

' 22

~ ~

selection, methods, you use.it.

65 c7-10

) 1 But Let's say that you have two persons in a 2 police -- well, let's say you have a police organization, 3 and some of them work day shift and some work night shift, 4 and the job changes from day shift to night shift. You want

. 5 to c.ie sure that there are representatives from both.

6 If you use methods of random selection and use small samples, 7 .you might not have that.

8 So you do that study first, and then you decide 9 on the selection method.

10 Q Dr. Goldstein, do you know how large the QC force II is at Comanche Peak?

12 A I probably have heard at one time or other, but 13 I don't remember.

14 Q What is your best recollection of its' size?

15 A I don't guess at things I don't remember.

16 Q Assuming all these incidents about which you I7 testified were true, the seven or eight that we have gone 18 through today, would the size of the work force make a I9 difference in the impact that that would have on the learning 20 behavior of the work force?

2I A Not necessarily.

I 22 Q What i n f.o r m a t i o n - d o you have that would lead you

F 66 7-11

~ ~

1 to believe that other QC inspectors were-even aware of these 2 allegations?

3 A Well, the number of incidents is only one kind 4 of an indicator that you would have as to whether there is 5 a problem or not. One could conjure up -- and I mean 6 " conjure up" -- a situation where a message is given to the 7 work force over just a couple of incidents if they are 8 dramatic enough. So let's say that your Organization X, 9

and an individual enters the work force and they don't 10 wear their safety helmet, ar.d the person gets fired because II they don't wear the safety helmet. Then let's say a month 12 - later a person gets fired because they don't wear their 13 safety helmet. And let's say two months later a person I4 gets fired.

15 You could have an organization of hundreds and 16 hundreds of people. I think the message is clear. The message ~is that if you don't wear your safety helmet, you 18 get fired. I would tend to think t ha t most everybody in that 19 organization would know that, even though there only might 20 have been one or two incidents involving hundreus or perhaps 21 thousands of people.

22 Q So the kind of incident you are talking about, using

67

'1g .-12 I

your example, changed slightly, is a craftsman were fired 2

on the day of which he is accused of harassing or 3

intimidating a QC inspector, that would be learning behavior of the type you testified about?

5 A W(LL, that's right. The message might be mixed 6

at that point.

7 Q And if it happened a second time, that would be 8

reinforcing the first incident; is that right?

9 A Correct.

Q And if it happened a third time, t ha t wouLd 11 reinforce it stilL further.

12 A Correct. ,

13 Q Do you know or were you told whether craftsmen 14 had been fired from Comanche Peak for atlegedLy harassing 15 QC inspectors?

16 A I don't recall.

17 Q And that would be the kind of positive learning --

18 I am not familiar with your terms, Dr. Goldstein; I have 19 to look back --

inhibitors -- that would be an inhibitor 20 that would prohibit craftsmen, would inhibit them from 21 intimidating inspectors; is that right?

22 A That is an example.

68

--+.

e_ f cge7-13 7

'w., ) 1 Q I believe you testified that firing is a dramatic 2

example. Do you recall that testimony?

3 A I would say that in the work force, if someone 4

is fired, that is usually a fairly dramatic example.

S' Q Dr. Goldstein, is your testimony in any way 6

intended to offer an opinion on whether there was harassment and intimidation of quality control inspectors at Comanche i

8 Peak?

9 A No, it's not.

( Tend 7

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[sp 43: .O And would.the needs assessment, or the study-you xi _ ,

1 2: recommended,, answer that question?-

'3 - A If-one of the' goals of-the needs assessment is to

~; a determine whether-persons are harassed, then one would try to w jy 5 ' design .a1 procedure ~ to determine that.

r + g 67 Q. And that may or.may_not be successful, is-that

/

t 7- 'right? > "

, x 5 ,

g A' .Any study may or may not be successful. '!!o w e v e r ,

9 it's'more likely to_be successful'if it is'done'right.

j_c 10 - 0 Dr. Goldstein, did you -- do you recall tes'tifying

' ' ( 'F ."

_ ji . .about whether.the current system _for investigating complaints

.i2 ' of harassment.and intimidation at Comanche Peak was ef fective?

j3 A Yes, I recall, but.I don't know that.I was talking ,

pp .about'the' current system,uas much as I was referring to a

?15 ' report of.some of the kinds of-things!that might be done,:and

g asked to venturetan opinion aboutfit^,'as

I. recall. I would 17 - - have to.-look:back.

~ '

Isf As you note, on page 13, I was told what'it is and L

19 ; I responded'to that.

( ) .3[ Q 'And were you told anything about_how many people hate 21 used.the system?

q b/s '22 A Um, I don't recall being told.

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1. ~

70 dy81b2 1 0; .And did you review anylof the materials that showed 2- what happened to people who did use the system, how their 3 complaints were handled?

4 (Pause.)

5 Dr. Goldstein, we have before us a set of materials 6 that relate - to one of the mechanisms at Comanche Peak for 7 raising concerns. Do you recall reviewing these materials 8 before you offered testimony here?

9 A No.

10 Q Did you review.them after your testimony?

11 A Well, I guess I had.them in my possession, but I 12 - don't believe I reviewed them.

13 Q You don't think you ever reviewed these?

14 A No.

15 Q So in your testimony, you didn't intend to offer 16 a judgment on whether the system in place at Comanche Peak for 17 raising and addressing concerns of inspectors was an adequate 18 - system? ,

. 19 A I didn' t ' address that in my testimony.

20 Q And similarly, you were asked to address -- or did i

you address in your'tastimony -- whether management's response

~

21 22 to any'particular concern -- other than in the 1979 surveys --

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' ;3  ! Dr.=sGoldstein,,on page,17 of.your.prefiled. testimony s

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f4- you were asked'.a question $about whether a'particular response-

^

tto:the'su'rvey reflected A .in.your judgment -- an adequate O '

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16 -  ; re sponse*. . The ',last question',on! 417 and top of page 18. Do 7 '. .you? recall being sked.that-quostion?

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'~8 :Could you say it again?, I-didn't follow it. ,

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^ J9 ' O' - Yes. 'at theibottom of page 17 of .Goldstein Exhibit -

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g :110 ' '1 and' continuing to the top of.-18, there-is a question about. -

i( 4' V)' ' 11~ ' whether a'particulariresponse, in.your' judgment, would have' .

12 . :been' adequate to the concerns raised in the 1979 surveys. -

", l .13 I Is that3right?-

14 ' A- That's correct.

9 .

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..And~were.you informed,.at any.. time, what management's

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' _i.i '- < :14 ~  : response to'the survey was?..

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4 - 17. A 'No,,it's'.a hypothetical.  !

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14 - O' So;you. don't know what the response was?

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I guess I would modify that'in one sense, and that 2 !islthat some'of the same themeu appeared in the '83 survey.

jp- ..If~I was taking'a look.at that,.from the point.of view of.

4 <would I be.' concerned, I guess the~ answer to that would be yes, L5' I would-be~ concerned enough to look at.it'if I was.professionat.

6 MR. ROISMAN: Could you just make clear what the y "that"'was?,fYou said make sure to look at that.

3 MR. DOWNEY .That being the responses to the surveys.

9' THE WITNESS: If 'I was calldd -into an' organization and b

,,e m- handed the surveys and. asked is that enough of.an indicator 3

~

11 to say Lthat there might be a problem and.we should look at it, q.

12 .my' answer would be I can't really tell you how pervasive the 13 '  : problem is. All-I can tell you is.that some sample of the w- persons-here thought there was a problem.

_. IS ' . That's what actually my testimony, I believe, says

,c

= 14 - and therefore would lead me to look further.

, ,17 BY MR. DOWNEY: ' '

y; NB ' O' And'you said, based on the surveys. You really mean k'

d'  ; , ,

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the summaries of the surveys prepared by

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( f, 20 Mr. Roisman's organization?

21 A' Well,'I, read al'1 the-surveys, but I used the i ex -

_.) ' ' 22 summaries. I mean, I read all the surveys. I think I said a

5 73 y81b5' 1 little earlier, when one reads the surveys you don't draw o

2 a blank after that and forget all about it and only pick up 3 the information'from the summary. If I read the surveys, and 4 I didn't think there was anything in the survey, I wouldn't 5 have told them to summarize it.

6 0 But in providing your testimony, you looked at 7 the counts that were in the summaries?

.3 A I looked at the themes.

9 O The themes?

10 A And a general idea of the counts.

11 Q In reading the surveys yourself, do you recall 12 identifying complaints about pay, as being a matter of concern 13 among inspectors?

14 A I recall that in, at least the '79 survey, that 15 that did come up.

16 O And do you recall the desire to have cross-training 17 as one of the concerns that the respondents -- the theme from 18 the 1979 survey?

19 A I don't recall, but it could be.

M Q And you identified in the surveys, did you not, that 21 there were several themca that were being sounded by the 22 inspectors, is that right?

L-

74 ny81b6

~'

1 A That's correct.

\

2 Q Dr. Goldstein, I want to go back to where we left 3 off in the beginning, which was your second conversation with 4 Mr. Roisman's group -- was with him personally.

5 A You mean on the phone or in person?

6 0 On the phone.

7 Do you recall the next contact you had with his 8 organization?

9 A Well, I recall being visited by --

10 (Discussion off the record.)

bu2 11 cnd8 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 '

19 20 21 22

e 75 sy91b1 l' BY MR. DOWNEY:

2 'Q Dr. Goldstein, do you have a sense for how long it 3' would take to conduct the kind of' study that you describe on 4 pages 16 --- 15 and 16 of your profiled testimony?

5 MR. BRYANT: Objection to form. You can answer it, 6 if you understand what he is asking.

7 Tile WITNESS:- It is a littic hard to answer that-8 question because I don't know the sample sizes. I don't know 9 a lot about the organization from the point of view of what

'10 the parameters of the organization are. And I also don't 11 know how difficult it would be to get the cooperation 12 necessary to c.o the study the right way, and all' of those 13 kinds of things.

14 But it shouldn't take longer than six months.

15 0 And it could take shorter?

16 A Sure.

17 0 Do you have a ballpark estimate for how much it 18 would cost to conduct such a study?

19 A Well, the cost is really directly related to the 20 sample size, the liaison team, and everything else. So 21 that's really hard for me to tell.

22 MR. DOWNEY: Oh, the page numbers, to which I have

C i ,

76

_-y91b2 1

1~ referred Dr. Goldstein, are page numbers in his prefiled 2 testimony, which has been marked for identification as 3 Goldstein Exhibit 1.

4 BY MR. DOWNEY:

5 Q Mr. Goldstein, how many hours did you spend --

6 how much time did you spend reviewing materials prior to 7 testifying or prior to giving your written testimony in this

'8 case?

9 A I would say about four days, three or four days?

10 0 25 or 30 hours3.472222e-4 days <br />0.00833 hours <br />4.960317e-5 weeks <br />1.1415e-5 months <br />?

11 A Yes, that would be correct.

12 Q And how much time did you spend discussing these 13 incidents with counsel prior to your testimony?

14 A About four or five hours.

15 'O Dr. Goldstein, did you review any materials 16 concerning the training program at Comanche Peak in preparation

, 17 to your testimony, or prior to your testimony? Training 18 programs for QC inspectors, the formal training program?

19 A No, I did not.

M Q And you testified, did you not, that that's one 21 of the ways in which people learn how to do their job? Isn't 22 that right? In your written testimony?

77

'y91b3 1 A Well, I don't recall that being the context of 2 the remarks that I made in my written testimony, but I 3 certainly would agree that one of the ways that you learn 4 your job is through training, both formal and informal.

5 Q And you did not review any of the materials 6 concerning the formal training program for QC inspectors at 7 Comanche Peak?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q Dr. Goldstein, did you review any of the actual 10 testimony offered in this proceeding, prior to providing your 11 written testimony?

12 A 'I don't know what you mean by the actual written 13 testimony. Everything that I -- I think nearly everything 14 I reviewed has been sitting on this table. Now, I don't know 15 if there -- there is obviously testimony involved in the 16 things that I reviewed, so I don't really know exactly what 17 yoa are referring to.

18 Q Actually, if Ms. Garde could come back, I would like 19 counsel to stipulate that Dr. Goldstein did not review any 20 of the transcripts of the testimony in this proceeding. It 21 would be much easier if we could do it that way.

22 MR. BRYANT: We will have to wait for a moment.

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2. I . BY ,MR . - l DOWNEY -

iQi NDo you knowf h ow-many' witnesses testified in this.

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e 4; f proceedin.g, . ~other- than yourself, Dr. Goldstein?-  ;

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"No . #

l 16 x _( Pause.) -'

7- -

MR. DOWNEY:- =.Durin'g the recess,. counsel for the.

.8  : parties consultedlandchave agreed to stipulate that in 4^ -9. preparation for his' testimony, which isLGoldstein Exhibit 1,

,10 and-in; preparation for.his depositionLtoday, Dr. Goldstein

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11f Edid not. review anyLof the: evidentiary transcripts generated j

, !12' DinLthis procedding. !Is that correct, Ms.: Garde?' ,

i 7; ,  :- 13 : MS. GARDE: That is, correct. ,

~ 14 : ,

BY MR. DOWNEY:

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f115 -Q;

Dr. Goldstein,'do.you have any personal knowledge ,

_  ; 16 E Labout;the way.inLwhich management's'open door policy at ..

T - 17 " Comanche Peak'is implemented?

E- >1 18 ' A> - No..

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19 -

Q , Dr. Goldstein, you testified, in your written

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-testimony,-.about facilitators and inhibitors. Those are tho' 21 - terms you;used,lis that right?

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I Q Were you asked to review what facilitators were 2 available or in place at Comanche Peak to encourage QC 3 inspectors to do their job?

4 A No, I was not.

5 0 Were you asked to review, or did you review, any 6 of the potential inhibitors that would tend to prevent 7 craftsmen from intimidating or harassing Quality Control 8 inspectors.

9 MR. BRYANT: . Objection. Form.

10 MR. DOWNEY: What specifically?

11 MR. BRYANT: Well, it is a compound, to begin with.

12 MR._DOWNEY: That's. correct. It is a corpound 13 question. I will withdraw it. -

14 BY MR. DOWNEY:

15 0 Dr. Goldstein, were you asked to review any 16 materials and identify potential inhibitors that would tend 17 to prevent craftsmen from harassing or intimidating Quality 18 Control inspectors?

19 MR. BRYANT: I'm sorry. Could I get that back?

20 (The reporter read the record as requested.)

21 BY MR. DOWNEY:

22 Q Did you understand the question?

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As I' understand ^your' testimony --'and correct me --

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.5" A. That's'right. It. inhibits performance. .!'

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, .f" O.M :i M Yoix '. O ~ ;'It inhibits' performance. Now my question was, did.

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L -11 Q And'were you' asked to make_such a~ review?

12 " A' . No , I wa s no t .' a's ked .

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13 :. Q .'Dr. Goldstein,:do you.'have any corrections to mako. ,

W =on Goldstein ExhibitIl?:,- <

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18 i A Not'to my knowledge, r ,

le , Q- You have reviewed'it and approved Goldstein Exhibit

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,' 'IS A 'Yes, I havo. t 19 , MR.'DOWNEY: No moro questions. That is it. -

38 -- '

(Whereupon, at 3:50 p.m., the taking of the i! >

- 21 deposition ' was concluded. ) ,

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(Signature Waived)

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CCRTIFICATE OF PROCEEDI.'GS 81

\ s O 3 This is to certify,that the attached proceedings before the kj 4 CO:@tISSION i-s In the matter of: Deposition of Irwin Goldstein

, Date of Proceeding: Friday, September 7, 1984

, Place of Proceeding: Washington, D. C.

, were held as herein appears, and that this is the original

, transcript for the file of the Commission.

so Suzanne Young it -

official Reporter - Typed 12 .

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