ML20085N484
| ML20085N484 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 05/17/1995 |
| From: | GEORGIA POWER CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| OLA-3-A-035, OLA-3-A-35, NUDOCS 9506300211 | |
| Download: ML20085N484 (21) | |
Text
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-35 cec ExiiisiT 35 00CKETED AUmmmiPE EX. I USNRC i
1 i
% JUN -6 P12:36 !
1 0FFICE OF SECRETARY 2 DOCKETING & SERVICE BRANCH 3
. 4 5
6 7
8 9
10 Transcript of Audiotape No. 89, 1
11 transcribed by Maribeth J. Williams, Certified Court 12 Reporter and Notary Public.
( 13 14 15 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMM:5Siot) **nm/m -
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21 Reprte - F. Oh 22 23 BROWN REPORTING, INC.
24 1100 SPRING STREET, SUITE 750 ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309 25 (404) 876-8979 9506300211 950517 PDR ADOCK 05000424 T PDR
2 1
2 Tape 89, Side A l l
l (APPROXIMATELY 70% THROUGH TAPE) 3 * * *
- 4 MOSBAUGH: Hey Rick, John needed you to 5 write a revision of that LER. '
6 ODOM: I just told John, I said -- he 7 asked me where I was. I said, "have you talked to 8 Allen?" He says "no." I says, " Allen," I says,
" talked i 9 to Tom yesterday and basically my understanding was 10 that we just back up and stay out of it right now i 11 until things are verified and everything."
12 MOSBAUGH: Tom? What? '
(-
13 WEBB: Which LER?
14 ODOM: The emergency LER.
15 WEBB: We've got four months so we can wait 16 for the [ corrective) actions to get done, so we can say, "we did this, we
- 17 did this, we did this, and we did that."
f 18 MOSBAUGH: No, I was talking about the 2
2 l 19 false statement. i 20 ODOM: Right, right.
d i 21 MOSBAUGH: My understanding -- That's why j 22 -- That's why I'm asking.
23 ODOM: Right. John told me to get into i
24 it yesterday. I asked him to look into it. He i a
- 25 talked to you. My understanding --
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- . . _ _ - _ . - - , - ~ _ - _ . . _ . . . . . _ . . _ , . _ . _ _ . . . . . - . . , . . . _ . . _ , . _ . . , _ . . , . . . - _
3 1
(Muffled conversations in background.)
2 WEBB: Didn't he ask you what these 3 statements were on the side of your log sheets?
4 MOSBAUGH: Right. Yeah.
5 ODOM: My understanding from him back was 6 that basically you had somebody else working on that 7 and --
8 WEBB: Cash and Stokes were working on 9 that list.
10 MOSBAUGH: They are validating the list.
11 ODOM: Right. I 12 MOSBAUGH: And I think they validated ;
i 13 it.
14 ODOM: Okay.
15 MOSBAUGH: It's a problem. l 16 ODOM: Okay.
l 17 MOSBAUGH: I mean, that list is a good l
18 list.
19 ODOM: Okay. My understanding --
20 MOSBAUGH: It was a good list to start 21 with. George wanted it validated by Cash.
22 ODOM: That's what I told you yesterday, 23 I guess.
24 MOSBAUGH: George wanted it validated, i i
25 okay. Now Stokes has produced the A list.
I i
I 4
1 ODOM: Right.
2 MOSBAUGH: And you've got both of them 3 now.
4 4 ODOM: Okay. '
- 5 MOSBAUGH
- Okay. And I think both of
- 6 those are good lists.
7 ODOM: Okay.
]
- 8 MOSBAUGH
- They were good lists when I 9 gave them to you.
10 ODOM: I was under the impression, that i
i 11 from you, from Tom talking to you yesterday, that he
,4
{ 12 should back out of it.
] 13 MOSBAUGH: No.
( 14 ODOM: Okay.
l l 15 WEBB: I did back out of it.
i 16 ODOM: Right. But --
4
- 17 MOSBAUGH
- Back out of data compilation.
- 18 WEBB
- Yeah.
MOSBAUGH: The data's good.
19 ODOM: But John -- But what John told me i 20 to do -- What John said to me, he said, basically 21 he holds me responsible for anything in an LER.
f 22 MOSBAUGH: Right.
1 i 23 ODOM: So I can't -- he said, "you need to 4
24 verify everything's correct."
l 25 MOSBAUGH: I told Tom that he didn't need i i
l 1
5
,. 1 to be generating a list of diesel starts, that Cash 2 and Stokes would validate the list that I had 3 prepared on B, okay, and that Stokes was going to generate 4 one on A.
3 ODOM: Okay.
6 MOSBAUGH: Today we have both those 7 lists. I believe they are good, I believe they are 8 validated.
9 ODOM: Okay (inaudible).
I 10 MOSBAUGH: The point is now -- l 11 ODOM: Now where do we go. 1 12 MOSBAUGH: Now we have a problem. In
( 13 fact, I just was reviewing the A list and I think we 14 have a problem on the A machine statement.
15 ODOM: Okay. We need to look at those 16 statements. So that's what we were talking about 17 that yesterday, where do we go from here.
18 ODOM: LER said you had 19 or something 19 starts.
20 WEBB: That's what the April 9, letter 21 said, did the LER say the same thing?
22 MOSBAUGH: No, the LER is worded 23 differently.
24 ODOM: The LER --
25 MOSBAUGH: The LER says that we completed
6 :
1 a comprehensive test program on both machines, 2 including logic and under voltage and et cetera 3 types of tests and that subsequent to the completion 4 of the comprehensive test program, both machines 5 have been started at least 18 times without failures 6 or problems. Okay? !
l 7 WEBB: Right.
8 MOSBAUGH: I felt that that statement was 9 wrong on B and put that list together because of 1
10 that; and it is clear to me that that statement has
]
11 a problem on B as did the previous letter.
12 ODOM: Okay.
( 13 MOSBAUGH: And, now that I have the A 14 list, I think we got a problem with the A 15 statement, too. The problem being right here is 16 that here is your last logic test.
k 4
17 ODOM: Uh-huh.
i 18 MOSBAUGH: On 3/31, engine run for logic i
19 test, normal start and simulated trip. Now we go
- 20 down to the undervoltage test. At earliest, I start 21 counting right here for the LER.
22 ODOM: Uh-huh.
23 MOSBAUGH: The earliest point I would say 24 we have the comprehensive test program completed is 25 probably right here.
4 4
1
7 1 ODOM: Okay.
2 MOSBAUGH: I haven't even declared it 3 operable yet.
4 ODOM: Right.
5 MOSBAUGH: So I'm taking some liberties !
6 with the counting. One, two, three, four, five, 7 six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. Oops, I 8 missed the LER date.
9 WEBB: Who got that data for the LER?
ODOM: We 10 didn't write it in there. So who's the one that put 11 that statement in there?
- 12 WEBB: Which statement?
(
13 ODOM: In the LER. Remember, on the LER, 14 we left it out.
15 MOSBAUGH: Corporate came up with the 16 statement.
17 WEBB: We put in that it had been started 18 several times.
19 ODOM: Right. And then they reworded 20 it. I'm saying we left it very vague.
i 21 MOSBAUGH: Corporate came up with the 22 statement.
23 ODOM: Okay.
24 MOSBAUGH: I told corporate they better 25 validate their data before they put it in there.
8 1 WEBB: It was started 18 times, though.
2 ODOM: No. What he's saying is that -- oh, 3 he's talking about A, he's talking about A, now?
4 MOSBAUGH: Yeah.
5 ODOM: We'll look at it. You got that 6 data?
7 WEBB: It Mag started 18 times, wasn't 8 it?
9 MOSBAUGH: " Subsequent to the completion 10 of the comprehensive test program."
11 ODOM: Do you have what he has there?
12 WEBB: Is that what the LER
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13 said, " subsequent?"
14 (Muffled conversations with Herb Becker in background.)
15 ODOM: It's not like we didn't know this 16 statement was questionable to begin with. You know 17 what I mean?
18 MOSBAUGH: Yeah, I know what you mean.
19 (Inaudible.)
20 MOSBAUGH: Is this the final one?
21 WEBB: Yeah.
22 MOSBAUGH: Here it is. " Subsequent to 23 this test program, DG1-A and DG1-B have been started 24 at least 18 times each and no failures or problems 25 have occurred during any of these starts." You've
I 9
1 got a problem with the 8 machine and you've got a 2 problem with the A machine.
3 ODOM: The B machine - .
4 MOSBAUGH: The B machine had failures and 5 problems.
6 ODOM: Yeah.
7 MOSBAUGH: But the A machine hadn't been 8 started enough.
9 ODOM: No, no. The B machine -- whoever 10 put that wording in there, looks like they worded it 11 real carefully and were very particular on the 12 wording, because it said 18 starts and no failures g 13 occurred during these starts.
14 15 So that could be a true 16 statement. It's misleading as hell, I'm the first '
17 to admit that. You see what I'm saying? You know, I i
18 it --
19 MOSBAUGH: You're back on the letter, 20 now.
21 ODOM: Yeah, I'm back on the letter. I 22 think the letter says the same thing the FSAR, I 23 nean, LER.
24 MOSBAUGH: The letter -- I tried to read 25 those every way I could and I can't find the letter l
l
10 1 statements to be true for the B machine.
2 ODOM: Didn't McCoy call Brockman, 3 though, and go through that letter with him?
4 MOSBAUGH: Who knows.
5 ODOM: That's what I heard.
6 MOSBAUGH: I heard something like that, 7 too.
8 MOSBAUGH: "Since March 20th, the 1-A 9 diesel has been started 18 times and the 1-B diesel 10 has been started 19 times." Now those statements are ,
11 false. They were started more than that.
12 ODOM: Yeah, right.
13
{ MOSBAUGH: I know, but it's going to get 14 you one way or the other, okay. If you are going to 15 say "no failures or problems have occurred during any 16 of these starts" and if you are going to focus on the 17 starts, then the number of times of starts is 18 false. If you are going to focus on "no problems."
19 ODOM: I'm not sitting here defending 20 that letter, trust me. That's misleading as hell.
l 21 MOSBAUGH: Well, it's more than l
22 misleading. It's more than misleading.
1 23 l 24 ODOM: (Laughter.) I mean, you could --
25 MOSBAUGH: If you are going to put
~
11 l i
1 blinders on and only look at these starts, then your
, 2 numbers of starts is wrong.
3 ODOM: Well, but no, what he said there 4 is they had 18 starts. Like I say, whoever put that I 5 wording in there was dancing all around it because 6 look at it --
! 7 MOSBAUGH: Yeah.
4 8 ODOM: -- it was started 18 times --
J s 9 MOSBAUGH: Yeah, but see, that's not
! 10 true, it was started 20.
j 11 ODOM: Yeah. But no, it has been started I
12 18. It has been started 20. Both are true g 13 statements.
I 14 MOSBAUGH: Huh-uh (No).
15 ODOM: Uh-huh [Yes). I could say I walked to 16 the door, okay, and I walked to Carolyn's office, j 17 okay. I did both to get to Carolyn's office. I had
- 18 to do one to do the other.
19 MOSBAUGH: Hold it, hold it.
20 ODOM: I'm not --
! i j 21 MOSBAUGH: Hold it. I'm going to apply l 22 for a job.
l 23 ODOM: Uh-huh. i l )
24 MOSBAUGH: Okay. And I'm going to say, l 25 I've been arrested once.
2 L
12 1 ODOM: Okay. ;
2 MOSBAUGH: But hire me, I'm a_ good guy, ;
3 I've been arrested once. While, indeed, I've been 4 arrested 36 times.
5 ODOM: True.
6 MOSBAUGH: Okay. Are you going to say 7 I've been arrested --
8 ODOM: No, I'm going to say, how many 9 times have you been arrested? You said, I've been 10 arrested once. I say, you been arrested more than 11 that, you say no, then you lied.
12 MOSBAUGH: Nobody asked --
( 13 ODOM: I understand statement. I'm just 14 trying to -- I'm just trying to tell you that we 15 vent through it word for word. I said -- ,
16 MOSBAUGH: You know, think about this.
17 I've been arrested, the guy has a felony record and 18 a civil record.
19 ODOM: Okay.
20 MOSBAUGH: And it's 36 times. Okay. And I 21 he goes in and the guy says, "I've been arrested 22 once;" and then I say, "and that one case was just for 23 failure to make a child support payment, that was 24 only a civil issue." I've been arrested once and 25 that arrest was for a civil issue. Now, come on.
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13 1 ODOM: Let me ask you a question.
2 MOSBAUGH: That's no different than this.
3 ODOM: I can say that there, what can I 4 tell you, it's misleading as hell.
5 WEBB: It is misleading.
6 ODOM: Misleading as hell.
7 MOSBAUGH: You can either -- like I say, 8 you can either focus on "no failures or problems," and 9 then the starts is wrong, or you can say the start 10 numbers is okay and there has been failures or 11 problems.
I i 12 ODOM: Give me some insight, who wrote ,
5 ( !
13 that? I i 14 MOSBAUGH: That?
15 ODOM: Yeah.
16 MOSBAUGH: I have no idea. I think I 17 George and corporate people wrote that. l 18 ODOM: Okay.
19 MOSBAUGH: And they got their technical
.J
, 20 information 4
21 from information from a review with Jimmy Paul 22 Cash. That is where the detailed information come 23 from to write this letter. The information that was 24 used to write this letter --
25 ODOM: I don't know where the hell they {
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14 1 got that from.
2 MOSBAUGH: -- I think, came from your 3 review and extension of the statements already made 4 in that letter.
5 ODOM: Well, wait, that's stupid of us.
6 If we knew that.
7 MOSBAUGH: And then questioned by us with 8 the final words being put together by corporate.
9 ODOM: We knew - .
10 MOSBAUGH: The LER words were put together 11 and submitted by corporate.
12 ODOM: Yeah, like I say, that was their
( 13 (i.e., corporate's) question from day one.
14 WEBB: When we sent it to corporate we 15 said they had been started several times each. We 16 didn't give them that.
17 ODOM: Right.
18 ODOM: We left it blank, we left it very 19 broad.
20 MOSBAUGH: Do you have that; whatever 21 we --
22 ODOM: Yeah, we got it.
t 23 MOSBAUGH: Remember we PRB'd one of 24 these?
. 25 ODOM: Yeah, we left it very broad.
I I
1:
I 15 1 MOSBAUGH: But the PRB didn't have 2 numbers in it?
3 ODOM: Very broad.
4 MOSBAUGH: I'd like to see what we 5 actually PRB'd. You know, we PRB'd them and then we 6 had a total rewrite.
7 ODOM: Yeah.
8 MOSBAUGH: And so forth.
9 ODOM: I tell you what, like I say, I'm 10 not trying to defend the letter with you. I'm just 11 trying to tell you --
12 WEBB: Too many rewrites, many rewrites.
I 13 ODOM: It's very misleading.
14 MOSBAUGH: But I didn't realize, until I 15 got this, okay, that I got a problem with the statement on the A 16 machine, too.
17 ODOM: I didn't realize we had problems 18 with the A machine, either.
19 MOSBAUGH: Okay.
20 ODOM: I see what you are saying, though.
21 MOSBAUGH: Here's one, two, three, four, 22 five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven.
23 (Inaudible.)
24 WEBB: This is what the PRB approvod.
25 ODOM: What did we say there?
- . l a !
l 16
?
4
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1 WEBB: "More than 20 times each." ,
i 2 ODOM: Yeah, those are very broad.
- 3 WEBB
- "No problems or failures."
4 ODOM: That's right (laughter).
- 5 MOSBAUGH
- 20. That's what's in there, t
6 huh? God, where did that come from?
7 WEBB: Well, because that was the 8 extension from operable that was going all the way j l 9 up to the 18th and 19th of April. You go that far, !
- 1 10 you get like 32 times for 1A and twenty-seven times l l
j 11 for 1B.
12 ODOM: It's like shooting ourselves in g 13 the damn foot more than we do anything else.
14 MOSBAUGH: Oh, I know why I didn't 15 remember this, because I came to that meeting late.
16 WEBB: There was a comment on that.
17 There was a comment on that. When I first brought 18 it in, I put --
19 MOSBAUGH: I was late to the meeting.
20 WEBB: -- more than 18 times each, more 21 than 19 times each, that's what went to the PRB; but 22 there was a comment from Lackey. He said, we don't 23 need to say we need to say -- (inaudible) we need to 24 take -- we need to take more than 18 or 19, you need 25 to take the credit, say, more than 20 times each or
17 1 something like that. That's where the "20 times each" 2 comes, I guess.
3 MOSBAUGH: Okay.
4 ODOM: Yeah, I know what I need to do.
5 MOSBAUGH: Bottom line, okay, please 6 continue on the revision of the LER.
7 ODOM: Cause I understood yesterday from, 8 you know -- the corporate communication; I told John 9 that, too.
10 MOSBAUGH: In addition, you'll have to 11 fig'are out what words you want to put in. You're 12 going to have to figure out what the right words
(
13 are, now. Okay.
14 WEBB: Well, does the NRC need to get 15 this information in written form through the LER or 16 can thiny get it through May 15, letter or by some 17 other means?
18 ODOM: Well, my understanding is McCoy's 19 already told Brockman about a letter. That's what I 20 was told.
21 WEBB: (Inaudible.)
22 ODOM: You heard the same thing. He walked
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23 him through it. And whether that's true or s 24 not, I don't know; but, I mean, obviously there are i
25 some problems with that letter.
4 W
4
5
(
18 1 WEBB: We wrote the LER with the 2 intention we were going to send them a supplement on 3 September 30th.
4 ODOM: We need to send it, before that.
5 (Inaudible.)
6 MOSBAUGH: I have referred -- I have 7 provided my data to George Bockhold; and if I were 8 George, I would do something soon.
9 ODOM: Yeah, I would, too.
10 MOSBAUGH: Like real soon.
11 ODOM: I vould, too. I agree with you 1 12 there. I mean, like I say, even that da;r of the 13 phone call, we were back there on that phone call 14 and, and ah uhm, Chaffee said, "Something's wrong ,
i 15 with that, the way it's worded."
16 MOSBAUGH: They are on to it, too.
17 ODOM: Oh, yeah, and that's what Brockman 18 -- I kept --
19 MOSBAUGH: Chaffee's got all the same ,
l 20 data we have.
21 ODOM: I kept waiting for Brockman to 22 jump in and help us, remember.
23 ODOM: I kept waiting for Brockman to 24 jump in and help us. And he said,"Yes, you got that 25 from us." And I went, "that's not help." Remember
19 1 that, Herb?
2 BEACHER: Yeah.
3 MOSBAUGH: Certainly they got all this 4 data, right?
5 BEACHER: Yeah, what's amazing is he 6 (inaudible).
7 ODOM: After lunch we got two missions 8 then, okay.
9 MOSBAUGH: And then you are going to have 10 to figure out what you are going to say.
11 ODOM: Oh, I know.
12 MOSBAUGH: I mean, you can either keep g 13 all the words the same and change the numbers, you 14 know.
15 ODOM: (Inaudible.)
16 WEBB: (Inaudible.)
17 ODOM: I mean, I swear to God, it ain't 18 like -- before the LER was sant out, that April 9th 19 letter was talked about on how Tiestionable it was.
20 I mean, that's stupid. Why do we try and write 21 things like that when we know they are 22 questionable?
23 MOSBAUGH: Well, I think, I think what 24 you have is a situation where they had already gone 25 on record, okay, and basically none of the l
l
I 20 1 principals wanted to change that. They were on 2 record. George made a presentation up there and 3 Hairston had signed out the COA response letter. So 4 we bring it up when we aru writing the LER and they 5 are on record, so what do they want to do? How deep 6 do they want to look at this?
7 ODOM: I was on that phone call this 8 acrning.
9 BEACHER: I know.
10 ODOM: Oh, you heard me a couple of times 11 say something like that?
12 BEACHER: Yeah.
( 13 ODOM: Boy, I could fall asleep over 14 there.
15 BEACHER: Anybody have to go soon?
16 ODOM: All right. Thanks, Allen.
17 MOSBAUGH: You're on track.
18 (End of Tape 89, Side A) 19 **** !
20 (Side B, START OF TAPE) 21 MOSBAUGH: I think we've got a problem on l 22 the A machine, as well. Where is it? I think I.am 23 only counting 11 starts. So, I told Odom he needed 24 to figure out what words he wanted to use. You 25 know, with the LER. You know, we are going to have i
4 i
21 1 to come up with new words or we can just put the new 2 numbers in, that will be less of a rewrite, you 3 know. Anyway . . . .
4 AUFDENKAMPE: Part of the problem --
5 okay.
6 MOSBAUGH: Oh, I know what the problem 7 is.
8 AUFDENKAMPE: What's that?
9 MOSBAUGH: Why we --
10 AUFDENKAMPE: Why we have material false 11 statements?
12 MOSBAUGH: Why we have material false 13 statements in three different correspondences.
14 AUFDENXAMPE: What? See, what I told 15 Rick Odom, when I gave him the list, "this is a list 16 Allen put together." I said, "it has not been 17 verified." I said, "those guys need to understand, 18 again, that I hold them responsible for insuring 19 that what is in there is in fact correct." ,
20 MOSBAUGH: I lost my list, A machine 21 list. But anyway, the A machine list has a problem.
22 (Phone dial tone, dialing.).
23 MOSBAUGH: Oh, anyway, there is only 11 :
24 starts.
l 25