ML20073G296
| ML20073G296 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 03/10/1983 |
| From: | Hickernell B PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP, NEW YORK, UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20073G268 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8304180244 | |
| Download: ML20073G296 (31) | |
Text
.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
_____________..______________________________x ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD BEFORE ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGES:
JAMES P.
GLEASON, CHAIRMAN FREDERICK J. SHON DR. OSCAR H.
PARIS In the Matter of:
h CONSOLIDATED EDISON COMPANY OF NEW YORK, INC.
'f (Indian Point, Unit No. 3)
POWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK (Indian Point, Unit No.3)
X Ossining Public Library Croton Avenue Ossining, N.Y.
March 10, 1983 7:00 p.m.
DEPOSITION OF BARBARA K.
HICKERNELL, taken pursuant to Stipulation by and between counsel for the respective parties herein.
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IRVING WALDMAN Court & Freelance Reporting 380 Mc Lean Avenue Yonkers, N.Y.
10705 Reporter:
Leslie M.
Arzoomanian Tel: (914) 477-7728 Service (212) 828-1400 8304180244 830228 PDR ADOCK 05000247 0
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2 I
APPEARANCES :
2 SHEA & GOULD, ESQS.
3 Attorneys for Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc.
4 330 Madison Avenue p
DAVID H. PIKUS, ESQ.,
of Counsel 6
AMANDA POTTERFIELD, ESQ.
Attorney for Intervenors Jointly, 8
NYPIRG/UCS New York Public Interest Research 9
Group, Inc.
9 Murray Street
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'2 10 New York, New York 10007 4
I s_
33 Also Present:
Pat Posner, PCAIP
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
g~
Joan Holt, NYPIRG 13 000 15 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Same stipulation as 16 we had for the deposition of Judith Glass.
17 MR. PIKUS:
That is fine with me, 18 MS. POTTERFIELD:
We are ready to begin.
f 1
l 19 000 20
(
21 BARBARA K.
HICKERNELL, 12 Terrici 22 Court, Ossining, New York, having been first duly 23 sworn by Leslie M. Arzoomanian, was examined and 24 testified as follows:
25 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Mrs. Hickernell, do
r I
Barbara K. Hickernell 3
2 you have before you the testimony that you 3
wish to submit before the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
cs 6
MS. POTTERFIELD:
Did you prepare this 7
testimony yourself?
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
9 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Do you have any 10 additions or corrections to this testimony?
II THE WITNESS:
Yes.
MS. POTTERFIELD:
Will you let us know 13 at what part of the testimony it appears?
14 THE WITNESS:
My children are now ten 15 7
and thirteen.
16 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Where are you referrinc 17 to?
18 THE WITNESS:
The third from the bottom 19 line and the second from the bottom line.
20
)
MS. POTTERFIELD:
Do you have any 21 additions or corrections other than that?
f, 4
22 THE WITNESS:
I don't believe so.
I i
23 have since learned that the fire siren'is 24 different from the con Ed siren.
25 MS. POTTERFIELD:
So that in the middle l
l
r Barbara K. Hickernell 4
1 2
of your testimony where you testify, "Several 3
times when the siren has wailed for over 4
one to two minutes, I have called the police 5
department to see if there truly was a fire,"
i 6
at the end of that sentence you wish to add 7
that you have since learned that the fire 8
siren is different from the Con Ed siren?
9 THE WITNESS:
Correct.
1 10 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Do you have any other
~
11 additions or corrections?
12 THE WITNESS:
No.
13 MS. POTTERFIELD:
With those additions
~
and corrections, is this testimony true and 14
'N 15 accurate to the best of your information and s
16 belief?
17 THE WITNESS:
Yes, it is.
18 MS. POTTERFIELD:
I am marking on this l
l 19 copy of your testimony the corrections that 20 you have noted and if you would initial them
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21 if they are correct.
>----4 THE WITNESS:
Certainly.
l 23 MS. POTTERFIELD:
I would like to have this marked as Hickernell Exhibit 1.
24 25 MR. PIKUS:
No objection.
r I
Barbara K. Hickernell 5
2 (Testimony of Barbara K. Hickernell, 3
no date appearing thereon, consisting of one 4
~
page, containing Barbara K. Hickernell's 5
signature, received and marked Hickernell Exhib:
6 1 for identification.)
7 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Will you read those 8
corrections, and if they are correct, put 9
your initials next to them?
10 (Witness complies.)
~
11 MS. POTTERFIELD:
You have initialed 12 them?
13 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
14 MS. POTTERFIELD:
I would ask that 15 Hickernell Exhibit 1 be admitted as an exhibit 16 to the depositions to be admitted with the 17 deposition as testimony in the hearing in 18 the event that a stipulation is not reached 19 and as it affects other witnesses.
20 EXAMINATION BY s_
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21 MR. PIKUS:
22 Q
Ms. Hickernell, with respect to the change 23 that you indicated in your testimony concerning the siren 24 system, are you able to distinguish the Indian Point 25 emergency siren from the fire siren?
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I Barbara K. Hickernell 6
2 A
I had heard it several weeks ago.
I did hear 3
the Indian Point siren when I went outside by accident.
4 When I was in the house, I could not hear.
I just 5
happened to go outside, and I am assuming it was the siren
).,
6 because it was far away and it went on, whereas the fire 7
siren is practically in my backyard and it's much louder 8
and the fire siren also has short blasts and a code 9
occasionally.
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10 0
Do you recall the date on which you heard 11 the Indian Point siren?
12 A
I thought it was a weekday.
I'm thinking 13 back.
When they tested them all on that Saturday several 14 weeks ago I wasn't home.
It wasn't that day.
I think
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15 it was a preliminary test to that.
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16 Q
Do you know whether it was a full-power test?
17 A
I have no idea.
18 Q
Ms. Hickernell, are the ten-year-old daughter and thirteen-year-old son the only children that you have?
19 Ch 20 A
Yes.
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21 Q
How often is the ten-year-old daughter home
,*, w alone?
22 23 A
For very short periods.
Between when she comes home from school and I get home from work.
I try 24 to be there.
I try to get home at about the time she gets 25
r I
Barbara K. Hickernell 7
2 home from school.
3 0
Where do you work?
4 A
I work in Ossining.
5 Q
Do you have a car?
6 A
Yes, I do.
7 Q
How often is the thriteen-year-old son home 8
alone?
9 A
He gets home earlier than she does; approximate
,.., 1, 10 ly an hour or forty-five minutes earlier than she does.
/
x 11 So he's home for that period.
12 Q
I assume that both of these children can 13 read?
~~
14 A
Absolutely.
15 Q
Do you have neighbors in close proximity to 16 your own home?
17 A
Yes.
18 Q
Are you aware whether any of them are around 19 during these periods when your children are home alone?
P
20 A
There is an old lady on the one side of me
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21 and my neighbor on the other side of me has three children.
f She's in and out all the time.
She works four days a 22 23 week, so sometimes she's home when the children are there 24 ard sometimes she has my children watch her children.
25 0
Are there otaer people in the neighborhood who
1 Barbara K.
Hickernell 8
2 you know?
3 A
I know that they are there.
I don't know 4
them.
There are two other people on the block whose 5
names I know.
6 Q
Are they usually home?
7 A
I have no idea.
8 Q
Do the people in your neighborhood that 9
you Know who you referred to have cars?
r 10 A
Yes.
11 MR. PIKUS:
I am going to ask the Reporte 12 to mark this document which is entitled 13
" Indian Point, Emergency Planning, And You 14 Hickernell Exhibit 2.
/
15 Q
I am going to ask you some questions about this document and there are several specific instructions N
16 17 and maps that are contained in this document that refer 18 to specific areas that may be areas other than those 19 in which you reside.
20 (Booklet entitled " Indian Point Emergenc-,
Planning, And You" received and marked 2;
Hickernell Exhibit 2 for identification.)
~~
22 23 A
Do you want my booklet?
(Off the record discussion.)
24 MR. PIKUS:
Could I strike the exhibit 25
I I
Barbara K. Hickernell 9
2 which I just had marked as Hickernell Exhibit 3
2 and have this document entitled " Indian 4
Point, Emergency Planning, And You," with 5
the number five indicated in the lower 1
6 right-hand corner of the address page marked 7
as Hickernell Exhibit 2?
8 MS. POTTERFIELD:
No objection.
9 (Booklet entitled " Indian Point, 10 Emergency Planning, And You," with number 11 five appearing in the lower right-hand corner 12 1
of address, received and marked as Hickernell f3 Exhibit 2 and previous Hickernell Exhibit 14 withdrawn.)
f'S 15 MR. PIKUS:
Would you also strike s'
16 that part of the instructional section tha't 17 I put on the record?
It's now unnecessary 18 because Mrs. Hickernell has been good enough 19 to provide me with the document that she 20 received.
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21 Q
Did you receive the exhibit just marked as P
22 Hickernell Exhibit 2 in the mail?
23 A
It came in the mail, yes.
24 Q
Could you tell me approximately when you 25 received it?
l
r I
Barbara K. Hickernell 10 2
A The rost date is there.
It was mailed from 3
New York on December 21st, so I received it shortly 4
thereafter.
5 Q
The basis of that statement is the post mark?
6 A
Yes.
cs,
7 Q
Had you ever received a brochure similar to 8
this in the past?
9 A
Yes.
/
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10 0
Approximately when did you receive that brochur.
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II A
I believe it was last March.
12 Q
I am going to direct your attention to Pages 13 4 and 5 of Hickernell Exhibit 2, which contain instructions 14 labeled "How you would be notified and staying indoors."
15 I ask you if you have ever read those instructions?
/
/
16 A
I have read the entire booklet several times.
I l'7 These are instructions that I have read.
18 Q
I take it you have read the maps as well?
19 A
Yes, I have.
20 Q
Has your daughter read this document?
I*
21 A
I have gone over the document with her.
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i 22 have not handed it to her to read.
But I have told her 23 the things that have been asked by the Plan.
24 0
In other words, you have conveyed all the
'5 instructions that this booklet directs you to share with L
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 11 2
your family members; is that correct?
3 A
I have, plus my own personal instructions to 4
them.
~ '
5 Q
What were your own personal instructions?
4 6
A I work off Route 134 in Ossining.
I work 7
inside and I or the people who work there have yet to hear 8
a siren.
9 So, if there's a siren and I happen to be at
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10 work, I want the children to notify me, because I have 11 no way of hearing it.
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12 Unfortunately, they're not supposed to use 13 the telephone in these instructions.
But, in this particula case, I've asked them and told them that I think this 14 is an emergency and in spite of the fact that they've 15
's asked people not to use the telephone, that they have to 16 17 use the telephone.
18 Q
Has there been an occasion of which you are 19 aware that you were at work when the Indian Point sirens 20 were sounding?
~
21 A
I was not at work yesterday during the tests,
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22 but people are there, generally, twenty-four hours a 23 day and they haven't heard them.
24 0
You are not aware of the radiological emergency 25 for which the sirens have sounded?
I Barbara K. Hickernell 12 2
A For the testing of the siren.
So far, they 3
have not heard them.
4 Q
Which instructions contained in this
(,.
5 brochure have you shared with your son?
4 7'
6 A
My son has read the entire boo'klet.
7 Q
Have you given him any additional instruct-8 ions?
9 A
The same with the telephone call and I tr'(
10 have asked him if he is inside not to bring the dog in
~
since we don't have any.information about whether or 11 a, ca i c~
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12 not there is plutoniub; that he is not to bring the dog 13 in and possibly contaminate him and his sister.
g4 Q
Have you told them that if the emergency 15 broadcast advises residents in the area to stay indoors,
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16 that they should keep the family and pets inside the l'7 house, assuming that there's been no release, and close 33 the doors and windows and follow the additional instructions that are contained on Page 5?
39
)-
20 A
If there's been no release.
But if he doesn't know that, I don't want him to take the chance
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'I and take the pet inside.
23 Q
You have no reason to doubt the accuracy of of any information that may be broadcast over the
,4 25 emergen y system.
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Barbara K. Hickernell 13 2
A I have read several books on Three-Mile 3
Island and I know that the information given to the 4
officials was not necessarily correct or up to date.
5 0
Was the information broadcast by the 6
news media incorrect or not up to date?
j--
7 A
It was given by the Gevernor of Pennsylvania, 8
Governor Thornburgh.
9 Q
have you discussed with ycur children the a
5 10 instructions for leaving home contained on Page 6 of
~
11 the Emergency Planning brochure?
12 A
I have discussed the instructions, yes.
13 Q
Are you aware of any recent changes in the
~
14 Plan?
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15 A
There is one change that was announced by i
16 County Executive O'Rourke, that the children would be 17 sent home rather than being bused to reception centers.
18 Whether that is official and in the new book, I don't 19 know.
20 According to this one, the children will 21 still be bused out to the reception centers and yet l
22 yesterday he had them sent home.
So, if it were a real 23 emergency, I don't know what he would do.
24 Q
Are you aware that Con Ed is in the process 25 of mailing out a revised brochure?
i l
I Barbara K.
Hickernell 14 2
A Yes.
3 Q
I take it that you have not yet received it?
4 A
No, I have not yet received it.
C
'"~'p 5
Q Turning your attention to Page 15 of the
]y. /
6 document marked as Hickernell Exhibit 2; have you 7
discussed with your children the instructions contained 8
on Page 157 9
A I have discussed it with them and I have ti 10 requested a booklet for each of them, each member of r
3 11 the family, so that the children would know where they 12 and we would be should they be evacuated to the reception
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13 centers.
~ ~ ~
Unfortunately, only one extra was sent.
14 15 Q
One extra brochure?
4 A
One extra brochure, which is this one.
I 16 17 had wanted the children to have a booklet to keep with 3g them, with their school things, so that when they are sd atschool,thejkouldknowwhereatleasttheirsibling gg l
20
- was, i
Q Are you married?
7 21 y n ~,,
A Yes, I am.
22 23 Q
Where does your husband work?
A He works in Tarrytown.
24 l
Q Has he read the brochure, to your knowledge?
25
r i
Barbara K.
Hickernell 15 2
A He has read it, yes.
3 Q
Has your family agreed on a location where 4
you might meet in the event there was a radiological 5
emergency requiring evacuation?
i
- A -
6 A
Not a final agreement.
What I have said 7
is that they are to call our nearest relative who is 8
in Philadelphia, who is my mother, and let her know 9
as soon as they are able to reach a phone, providing
(
they are able to use a phone.
They are to call her 10 11 and let her know where they are.
12 Q
Have you studied the plans contained in the 13 brochure marked Vickernell Exhibit 2?
a.-.
14 A
I don't know if that's the proper word.
J Q
You've looked at them several times, have 15 i
16 you not?
17 A
Yes.
18 Q
And your children have looked at them?
19 A
My son for sure has.
What my daughter l
i 20 remembers, I don't know.
(
21 Q
Do you know whether your husband has looked m
22 at them?-
23 A
Yes, he has.
24 Q
Have you placed the booklet in a location l
25 where it is easily accessible?
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P I
Barbara K. Hickernell 16 2
A Right by the door; yes.
3 Q
When you say, "by the door," you are 4
referring to the front door of the house?
k.
5 A
Yes.
~
r-6 Q
Am I correct that the other members of your 7
family know where that booklet is?
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
Have you attempted to call the telephone
,g 10 numbers listed on Page 15?
11 A
I don't believe that I did.
I'm not sure 12 whether I just sent away for the other booklet or-13 called for it.
I'm sorry; I don't remember.
14 Q
When you made the request either by telephone 15 or mail for the additional brochure, did you ask for gr,
A,pv 16 any other information?
s 17 A
No.
I just requested four brochures.
18 Q
Have you contacted any other source to try 19 to obtain further information about emergency planning 20 for Indian Point?
k I
21 A
Other than getting another booklet, no,
(,
an pa 22 I haven't.
23 Q
I take it that you have not contacted either 24 the Power Authority or Consolidated Edison at the 25 addresses contained on Pages 19 and 20 of Exhibit 27
I Barbara K.
Hickernell 17 pyu 2
A We do have some bookion radiation.
I 3
believe this is the only book on emergency planning.
4 There may be something that the N.R.C. put out regarding
(.~
5 radiation.
6 Q
Did you obtain the booklets that you just 7
referred to on the subject of radiation from either 8
The Department of Health or Consolidated Edison at 9
the addresses listed on Page 197
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10 A
No, not at the addresses.
We have some of W.2 11 the Con Edison material which I believe is put out
~ ~ ~ ~
12 by the Edison Electrical Institute, wnich they give
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13 out at the educational center in Buchanan.
6
,6 14 Q
Are you referring to the Indian Education 15 Center?
16 A
Yes.
We have those pamphlets.
17 Q
Have you visited the Center?
18 A
Yes.
19 Q
Do you believe that Con Edison has made an 20 attempt to convey information about Indian Point?
(
21 A
They certainly have made an attempt to convey information about Indian Point.
22 23 Q
Did they indicate that they would be willing 24 to provide you with further information at your request?
25 A
The woman there was most helpful.
l 1
Barbara K.
Hickernell 18 2
O Do you know who the woman was who you spoke 3
with?
~~~
4 A
I don't remember her name. She was very 5
helpful.
es 6
Q Have you ever made any attempt to contact 7
the New York State Department of Health concerning 8
emergency planning for Indian Point?
9 A
I believe I wrote the Commissioner a letter.
10 But that was not requesting information; it was giving 11 an opinion.
12 O
Are you referring to Commissioner Axelrod?
13 A
Yes.
14 Q
Have you ever contacted the Four County 6
~3 15 Nuclear Safety Committee?
- )
\\
16 A
If that's where, yes.
I must have sent s
17 for it, because I remember tearing something out.
- Yes, 18 I have.
19 MS. POTTERFIELD:
Referring to the 20 tear-out post card?
(
21 THE WITNESS:
Yes, the tear-out post 22 card on my original book.
23 Q
Other than the request for the additional 24 brochure, I take it that you haven't had any further contact with the Four County Nuclear Safety Commission?
25
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 19 2
A Yes.
3 Q
When you mailed in this card that you just
-m 4
indicated, did you indicate that there were any special
,A 5
problems that your children might experience in the 6
event of a radiological emergency?
W
- m...
7 A
Special problems other that what any 8
children would experience, no.
9 Q
All you did when yo;1 returned this card was r;,
. '(
10 to request four brochures?
11 A
Yes; and telling them why, that I wished 12 one for each member of the family to carry on their 13 person.
14 Q
Have you made any attempts to photocopy the 15 brochure to give to each member of the family?
16 A
No, I haven't.
i 17 Q
Have you attempted to obtain any additional 18 information concerning emergency planning from the 19 County Government in Westchester?
l 20 A
No, I haven't.
21 Q
Is there anyone, other than the source you y,.,
22 have indicated that you turned to in order to obtain 23 four additional brochures,who you have contacted to 24 attempt to gain further information about emergency l
P anning for Indian Point?
l 25 l
l
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 20 2
A Not other than asking some questions of 3
our Town Supervisor and village police chief and the 4
formal discussions, hoping that somebody else might
(
5 shed some light on a couple of the discrepancies, and 6
the teachers.
I have spoken to some of the teachers.
7 Q
What are the discrepancies that you referred 8
to?
9 A
The one I particularly am concerned about
.g 10 is if they send the children home, tell the children
?
A 11 to shelter, and the children, of course, need to walk 12 outside, but another point, I think in here, they 13 tell you to get in a car, roll up your windows and 34 if you don't have a car, walk two blocks and wait for 15 a bus.
16 At one point, you are fully exposed to 17 whatever radiation there is, and at the same time, jg with the cars, you shut everything off.
19 Q
Could you point out to me that specific
' ~ ' '-
20 portion of the brochure that you are referring to as
)[
21 discrepancies?
~~'
MS. POTTERFIELD:
Are you on Page 6?
22 23 THE WITNESS:
Right now I'm on Page 5.
A Let me read Pages 5 and 6 very quickly, 24 25 Particularly the last point, "Close the windows and air
Barbara K. Hickernell 21 1
vents of your car and do not operate the air conditioner 2
until you have left the emergency area."
3 MR. PIKUS:
Let the record reflect 4
that the witness is reading from Page 6.
5 5
A Yes, Page 6.
g s/;
6 Q
Of Exhibit 2.
es 7
A Yes.
"If you do not have a ride, walk to 8
the nearest emergency bus pickup point listed on Pages 9
13 and 14 "
10 0
So, those are the two provisions that 11 you are speaking of that you consider to be discrepancies; 12 closing the windows or walking to the nearest bua pickup 13 point?
14 A
Yes.
I feel that's a discrepancy.
7 15 Q
You did not contact the Power Authority 16 or Con Edison about this discrepancy?
g,
y tud ha' 17 A
I know dxmt other people, but I personally 18 haven.' t.
19 MR. PIKUS:
I am going to ask the 20 Reporter to strike the hearsay portion.
(
21 MS. POTTERFIELD:
It was not hearsay.
w,.i
'~
22 She did not indicate what was said and there 23 was no indication who said it.
24 MR. PIKUS:
My objection is on the 25 record.
l 4
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 22 2
Q Are there any other provisions in the 3
document marked as Hickernell Exhibit 2 that you would 4
consider to be discrepancies?
5 A
I would have to read it right now to come
..}
6 up with specific ones.
Offhand, that was the one I was 7
particularly concerned about.
8 Q
What additional information do you feel 9
that you need in order to be able to respond as you 10 would like to the possibility of an accident at Indian 11 Point?
i 12 A
It would be very nice to be able to have 13 the foresight, to know how people would behave in a 14 panic situation; particularly a radiological one,
-" ~"
15 where you can't see and can't feel whatever radiation jft,)
i 16 there might be.
s _. s.
s 17 Dealing with the unknown is far more 18 frightening than dealing with a normal emergency where 19 you could see what is happening and you can get away 20 from it.
e.,
21 Q
Have you read that material on radiation L
that is contained in the brochure marked as Exhibit 2?
[
22 23 A
I have; and I have also worked with radio-24 active compounds.
25 Q
What is your profession?
l
.e....., _
, ~. _ _,. -.. _ _
._y
I Barbara K. Hickernell 23 2
A I used to be a chemist.
3 Q
How would your family respond in the event 4
that there were a toxic chemical spill that required 5
the evacuation of your home and the area around it?
6 A
It depends on the spill.
Most of it would 7
be contained in a certain area.
We would know that we 8
would be able to come back to our hone within a 9
reasonable amount of time.
{
10 0
Is that true in the event of all chemical 11 spills?
12 A
I don't know if you could say all chemical 13 spills, because it's far different from radiation.
There 14 are various half-lives.
You would have really no idea p5' pLh/
15 whether you've gotton I31, which has a half-life of 16 seven and eight days or something like plutonium, which 17 has 2
'N" 1 "' [p/. (
18 Q
Is it your belief that a plutonium radio-g9 nuclei would be released from Indian Point if there 20 were a radiological accident?
(
21 A
It would be possible.
22 Q
Have you calculated the possibility of such 23 a release?
24 A
No.
25 Q
Have you followed the recent news reports
I Barbara K.
Hickernell 24 2
about Times Beach, Missouri, which experienced a 3
dioxane problem?
4 A
Yes.
(
5 Q
Isn't it true that portions of Times Beach,
=s 6
because of this chemical spill, had been rendered 7
uninhabitable for long periods of time?
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
In the event that an evacuation were required 10 tecause of a chemical spi.11, and you were not home and 11 your children were, how would your children respond?
12 A
If I were nou at home, I would imagine they r-13 would try to call me first, unless the police came 14 to take the people away to get them out of the area.
15 Any time that my children leave the house, they leave 16 a note as to where they are and the phone number where 17 they can be reached, and I assume they would do the 18 same thing.
19 0
If there were instructions broadcast over 20 either the radio or television or police loudspeakers, 21 do you believe that your children would follow them?
-c 22 A
If they were reasonable instructions.
23 MR. PIKUS:
I have no further questions.
24 EXAMINATION BY 8, ' u p,,
25 MR. POTTERFIELD:
I Barbara K. Hickernell 25 2
O You testified that you received a brochure 3
in December of 1982, which was the second brochure 4
you received; is that right?
(.'
5 A
- yes, 6
Q Do You know how long it was between the 7
time you requested that second brochure and the time 8
it arrived?
9 A
I believe I sent for it in September.
~,
to Q
Septcmber of 1982?
11 A
Yes.
12 Q
Did you want to sayaanything furthe.c7 13 A
At first I thought I called, but I
"~
!4 remember filling out the form.
}""]p 15 Q
By "the form," do you mean the post card s
16 in the back of the brochure?
17 A
Yes.
18 Q
You now have two brouchure number fives 19 in your home; is that right?
20 A
Yes.
i
~
21 Q
You testified that you had read about 22 Three-Mile Island and that information given by the 23 Government of Pennsylvania was incorrect?
24 A
Yes.
25 Q
Have you had any information about faulty
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 26 2
or incorrect information given by either Con Edison 3
or the Power Authority of the State of New York about 4
any incidences at Indian Point?
5 A
Yes.
1 i'
6 Q
Can you tell us what you know about that?
7 A
I believe during the leak of radioactive 8
water oeveral years ago they did not knew what was 9
going on until I think there was ninety feet of water
[.?
!O in crie of the containment buildings.
11 Q
When you say "they," who do you mean?
12 A
The employees at Con Ediscr.
This last 13 time uhen the Plant was shut down several times for
= '
14 several days at certain portions of the day, there was 15 perhaps no way for them to know how much water was i
16 leaking, but it was a guesstimate on their part.
I a7 tried to figure out really how much water was leaking 18 out and they gave me a very, very small estimate and 19 then they gave a large estimate.
20 I assume they were doing the best the could, (Hv' butitdoesn'treaffirmhhfaithintheutility.
a 21 22 O
You have described for us two separate 23 occasions when you remember that you may not have 1
24 gotten accurate information.
25 A
Yes; and also I guess with Indian Point 3,
I Barbara K. Hickernell 27 2
with the pitting of the tubes.
3 When they first closed the Plant and said 4
that this would be a small job and it would be opened
(
5 within a couple of months, at about that time, I had 6
heard Robert Pollard and he said that if they opened 7
that Plant within X number of months, we'll all know 8
that it hasn't been repaired.
9 Well, the Plant was closed practically a 10 year ago and now they are asking the N.R.C.
to be 11 allowed to plug these tubes and to run with 23 cr some 12 percentage as this plugged, and from my reading, this 13 makes it a little more dangerous in that it would 14 not cool down.
It would be more difficult for them 15 to cool the Plant down, from my understanding. Rather 16 than just replacing the tubes, just plugging them.
17 MR. PIKUS:
I would move to strike 18 that as number one, hearsay; and number y
19 two, unresponsive.
20 0
What is the basis of the information that
(
21 you have just given us?
}
22 A
The newspaper articles.
~
23 Q
Apart from the newspaper articles, you 24 also indicated that you heard Mr. Pollard?
25 A
I heard Mr. Pollard.
I Barbara K.
Hickernell 28 2
O Is there any other source for your 3
information?
4 A
No; just the newspaper articles.
(
5 Q
Can you give us the time frame for the n
6 first incident y'u described, the leaking?
o 7
MR. PIKUS:
I am going to object l
~
8 to this at this point on the grounds that 9
this cross-examination is going beyond to the scope of the direct.
You are free v
11 to answer the question.
~-
12 Q
I wonder if you could remember approximately 13 when that first incident occurred.
14 A
It was a matter of several years ago; I 15 don't know the date.
16 Q
How about with respect to the second one?
17 A
The second one occurred right after they 18 started the Plant up; after it had been refueled.
l 19 This was within the past month. Around Valentine's Day.
20 Q
You testified in answer to one of Mr.
(
21 Pikus' questions that you have heard or have learned 22 of a proposed change in the plans that would reroute 23 the children should an accident happen during school 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />?
25 A
Yes.
o o
1 Barbara K. Hickernell 29 2
Q Can you recall when you first heard or 3
learned about this new change?
4 A
It was several weeks ago.
I read it in the
(
5 paper, the comments by County Executive O'Rourke, that 6
he was considering this change because of all the 7
problems with busing out the children, and he felt 8
that perhaps this would get them home.
9 Unfortunately, most children dcn't have 10 parents at home.
Most of the families are working 11 families.
So, I'm not sure if this is a great improve-12 ment.
I know this as a class mother.
We have a very 13 difficult time trying to reach the parents and trying to get them to volunteer for things during the school 34 15 day.
16 Q
Can you remember whether your first 17 information about this new change came to you before jg or after the Valentines Day leak that you just mentioned?
19 A
I don't remember.
I' r
20 0
Would you mind telling us why your family has been unable to come to a final agreement as to
(
21
"~"~
where to go in the event of an evacuation?
22 23 A
If one goes by this booklet, one child would be taken to one school and another child would be taken 24 25 to another school.
My husband is in Tarrytown and I
1 1
Barbara K. Hickernell 30 2
I believe that they're not going to have people re-enter 3
the ten-mile zone.
So he certainly wouldn't be able 4
to come home before the children come home.
And, also, 5
the roads are clogged.
It would probably be more 6
important to get out and try to call my mother, so 7
that we could report in to somebody so somebody at 8
least knows where we are.
9 Q
It wasn't a dispute about your mother's 10 location being the place to go; it was just a question 11 of logistics?
12 A
Absolutely.
13 Q
You testified that your previous profession 14 was as a chemist.
What are you working at at this 15 particular time?
16 A
Right now, I'm getting my Master's in 17 Public Administration.
And I work as an administrative 18 systems consultant.
19 MS. POTTERFIELD:
I have no further 20 questions.
21 000 22 Oaw k Nelbuh 23 Barbara K. Hickernell 24 Sworn and subscribed to before me 25 this f
day ofs 983.
64
- 4 % f1.4 79, A)-Y-&,lMCUd OC / WY
I 4
~
~
1 31 2
3 C E R T I F I C A T I O N:
4
(-
5 l
I, Leslie M. Arzoomanian, a Stenotype 6
Reporter and Notary Public within and for the 7
State of New York, do hereby certify that the 8
witness whose testimony is hereinbefore set forth
~
9 is a true record of the testimony given by that s
go witness.
It I
I further certify that I am not related to 12 any of the parties to this action by blood or 33 marriage and that I am in no way interested in the 34 outcome of this matter.
15 16 17 M
Leslie M. Arzoo'#
18 manian 19 20 p
1
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21 Dated:
March 14, 1983 (TC~";l 22 23 24 25