ML20041G261
| ML20041G261 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Diablo Canyon  |
| Issue date: | 02/05/1982 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20041G258 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8203190472 | |
| Download: ML20041G261 (57) | |
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CANYON REPORT
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D&=E:- February 5',~1982' paggg:-
1 - 55 Ag:
Washington, D. C e-N TO
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20024 Talaphc=a : (202) 554-2345 8203190472 820315 PDR 10CFR PT9.7 PDR u)
1 MONS 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA T
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 DISCUSSION OF PHASE I 0F THE DIABLO CANYON REPORT g
5 8
3 6
CLOSED MEETING - EXEMPTION 5 s1 7
,f8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Room 1130 dd 9
1717 H S treet, N. W.
f Washington, D. C.
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Friday, February 5, 1982 g
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g 12 The Commission convened in closed session, pursuant 5
13 to notice, at 2:05 p.m.
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BEFORE:
2 15 l
d NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission g
16 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner w
PETER BRADFORD, Commissioner 6
17 l JOHN AHEARNE, Commissioner M
THOMAS ROBERTS, Commissioner i
5 18 U
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19 I STAFF MEMBERS GIVING PRESENTATIONS AT MEETING:
R 20 S. CHILK L. BICKWIT l
21 J. MURRAY H. DENTON l
22 W.
DIRCKS i
J. SNIEZEK 23 '
J. F0UCHARD 24l 25 a
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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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I TELEPHONE CONFERENCE PARTICIPANTS FROM REGION V:
2 B. FAULKENBERRY J. CREWS 3
P. MORRILL
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PR0CEEDINGS 2
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
The meeting will please come 3
tu order.
4 The meeting today is a discussion of Phase I of the e
5 Diablo Canyon Report.
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We have telephone communication I believe with the R
7 Region V office, including Bob Faulkenberry, Chief, Reactor s
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Construction Projects Branch; Jesse Crews, Director, Division d
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of Resident, Reactor Projects and Engineering Inspection; and 10 Phillip Morrill, Reactor Inspector.
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12 MR. CREWS:
This is Region V.
Yes, we are.
5 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Thank you.
It is my understanding
,E 14 that when one of us is speaking we cannot interrupt.
It is 2
15 a stop and go process.
So I think..it might be important for j
16 us to bear that in nind.
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17 l I think our primary mission this af ternoon is to try z
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18 to reach a decision, any decisions we wish to make with regard P
Q 19 to Phase I of the Diablo Canyon Report.
M 20 I would propose to proceed as follows.
First have 21 each of the Commissioners express any views they have or raise 22 any questions with the people that did the inspection.
Then 23 [
I would suggest we try to formulate the quet tions we want to 24 have answered and then address those questions.
25l Among the questions I would see that we would want to t
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I consider is, one, the question of whether or not there was a 2
material false statemen.t made.
We may wish to divide that into 3
two parts, was there a false statement and was it material.
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Then I think we need to address what action we want
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5 to take as a result of that if we so find.
Then I think we need h
6 to address the question of whether or not on the basis of the R
7 Phase I report we wish to continue Cloud as n eligible
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8 independent auditor.
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9 Now there may be other questions that we will formulate 10 when we get there, but I put those forth so that we could think i
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12 With regard to positions, I have circulated.to the 4
13 Commissioners my thoughts on this matter and I would be willing l
14 to entertain any questions on it.
2 15 If you would like, I will be glad to summarize it j
16 for you.
You would like me to summarize.
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17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Don't take my silence as a s
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18 lack of interest.
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19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Could I first ask two questions n
20 of the people on the other end?
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Yes, indeed.
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Let's see, I would like to ask 23l with respect to the Phase II report.
I have read up to Appendix 24 !
C.
Could you restate the significance that you would attach 25 to the exceptions to Issue 15's findings.
You have two 4
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exceptions listed. -That is, on Issue 15 the finding is that 2
the revisions of material contained in the draf t reports appear 3
to have been justified with the following exceptions, and then t s.
4 you have the two exceptions.
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It wasn't clear to me on. my first reading how e
6 significant you conclude those exceptions are.
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MR. CREWS:
This is Jesse Crews in Region V.
I am a
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going to ask Bobby Faulkenberry to first respond and then the d
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two investigators, Bill Morrill and then John Faar(?) whom I 10 understand is there, and then they can elaborate.
11 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
You are reIlly on Phase II.
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12 (Laughter.)
c 13 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
With regard to the two exceptions l
14 as th'ey relate strictly to the revisions and justifications 15 for revisions made in the report, I think we would classify j
16 them'as not too significant, as 17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Would you repeat that.
M 18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You would classify them how?
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19 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
As not too significant.
M 20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Thank you.
21 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
My reasoning for that is that we 22 j
did have -- documentation -- justified -- the majority of the 23 revision that was made in each case ---
24 )
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Can't we do better than that?
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
May I interrupt.
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(No response.)
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Can you hear me?
3 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
Yes.
Go ahead, please.
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CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I shou.ld advise you that this is y
5 a voice actuated system and the first word or two is sometimes 8
6 garbled at the beginning.
May I suggest that when you start 8S 7
to speak you say some words such as this is Jesse or this is s
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so and so so that we don't miss the first words of your d
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statement.
5 10 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
This is Bob Faulkenberry.
11 (Laughter.)
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12 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
This is Bob Faulkenberry again.
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y 13 will repeat what I said.
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14 Wi th regar:' to the revisions that were actually made 15 in..the report as related to the two exceptions, we would consider a[
16 these two exceptions to not be very significant.
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17 i The reason for this is that they had documentation 18 which justified the majority of each of the revisions made or 5
19 the revisions made in each of the two paragraphs.
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20 Our feeling is that they did not go far enough in 21 searching the documentation to really come up with the proper 22 answer to justify completely the statements they made in the j
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revisions.
24 So there is a little bit of an overshadow here with 25 regard to evaluating the revisions aspect of it as related to t
ALDERSOfM REPORTnFMG CCW/NMW, OPMC-
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evaluating the adequacy of the reverification effort that they 2
did to obtain the information that t.ey put in the report.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
As long as we are on Phase II let 4
me ask a follow-up question with regard to those exceptions.
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This is Pelladino.
R 6f My question is this:
Do you believe that in these 7;
exceptions that Cloud was trying to accommodate PG&E comments a
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8 or do you view this as an error or insufficiency of the check d
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on the part of Cloud?
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This is Bob Faulkenberry.
We do 3
l 11 not believe that Cloud was intentionally making this look better a
y 12 for PG&E.
We believe that the exceptions were a lack on Cloud's 5
13 part of searching the documentation sufficiently to obtain 14 l enough detail to provide correct information in the revision.
E IS CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
All right, thank you.
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17 i (No response.)
!5 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well then, I wonder if we might E
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return to Phase I.
a 20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
The reason I asked the question 21 was I thought it might somewhat affect the decision on Phase I.
22 l CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well getting back to Phase I again 23 I do not have a problem with the fact that R. L. Cloud had 24 ;
submitted draft reports for PG&E review and comment prior to 1
25 placement of work in final draft report form, especially since SLDESSON REBOSTWG COMPANW, ONC.
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NRC had supplied no guidance on this point.
2 This is apparently standard practice among~many 3
consultants and apparently has been standard practice both at 1
4 PG&E and R. L. Cloud, a
5 The purpose of such reviews is to assure accuracy 3
6 and completeness of the work being done.
At least that is what 7
is maintained by both PG&E and Cloud.
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8 The problem arises from the fact that the November dd 9
3 meeting statements made by PG&E led NRC to believe that
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10 no circulation of the resu'lts of the R. L. Cloud seismic 3
11 reverification study had taken place preliminary to the draft
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12 report submitted to the NRC on November 18th,1981.
5 13 A particular concern in my mind are the statements l
14 made by Mr. Norton indicating that PG&E did not have the report.
2 15 He said:
"It is not a question of us reviewing it, we don't g
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have it either.
It just hasn't been done yet."
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17 During the investigation made by the NRC staff E
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18 Mr. Norton indicated that based on the knowledge he later E
t 19 i obtained the statement he made on November 3 was factually 20 incorrect.
j 21 Mr. Norton stated to NRC investigators:
"I honestly 22 l do not have any meaning to that.
If I had known the report i
23 l of October 21 had been received by PG&E I would not have said 24f what I said because when I used the term ' report' I was l
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encompassing any report, whether it be p relimina ry, interim or j
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final, whatever, and was, because I asked the question where 2
is the report on the previous day or two and was told it would
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3 be prepared in a week or two_. I guess I assumed whoever was 4
answerin'g my question was using the definition of.' report' I was.
5 In all probability they weren't," Mr. Norton said.
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20 21 22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
An'y comments?
John.
23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes, I have several.
24 l Ithinkthatthisendsupestab[ishingaprecedent i
25 ] for what we would mean by material false statement, the direction it i
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tnat you are going.
2 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS :
Amen.
3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, I agree with that.
So far w
4 we are on a parallel track.
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
We are now about to diverge.
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(Laughter.)
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I have a substantial problem s
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with this as a precedent for the following reasons.
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To me what is important when licensees or applicants 10 or people deal with this is to make sure that the basic information Il that they are telling us is correct and also that they aren't 3
y 12 lying to us.
I think that those are the two standards that at s
5 13 least I would like to establish.
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14 Now as far as the basic information, there is a 15 question of scope and I would want to focus on what is j
16 s i gn i fi can t.
I would want to make sure that significant items i
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are correct.
18 On the point of whether there is a lie being told I l
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don't think the issue of significance arises.
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gn 20 misstatement und' ermines, as Vic has pointed out many times, 21 undermines the whole theory or our regulation, the whole frame-22 work of our regulation.
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So to me the questions that I address in looking at 24 this issue, and I would intend to address in looking at any 25 question of material false statement, are, fi rs t, is it
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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY INC.
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deliberate and then, second, the significance of the information.
2 If I conclude it is deliberate and it is incorrect, then the 3
significance I have just pointed out can make the matter worse, s
4 but I already would have conclu'ded that there was something g
5 worth penalizing.
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What we have just finished hearing in the discussion R
7 with the people in Region V and what we covered last time is that a
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the question of deliberateness doesn't really seem to be there, d'
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particularly with respect to Norton.
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10 Now I agree the conduct wasn't the best.
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11 last time I think Norton was ill prepared.
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I reached the 5
13 conclusion that that is more indicative of the pattern that
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14 Dick DeYoung had mentioned previously, that the company just 2
15 does not establish correct attitudes in its employees.
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16 I have somewhat similar concern, as Peter had mentioned, m
6 171 with respect to Cloud, that there is a nagging question there.
5 18 But across the board there it just doesn't rise to my mind of E
19 deliberateness.
So I can't reach the conclusion that there i
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20 was a deliberate action.
21 Then I would have to go to the significance, and I l
22 don't find this significant.
I think that up until that meeting 23 we had not really discussed independence much at all.
I don't i
l 24l think there was strong guidance.
What was going on there was 25,
standard industry practice for what is called an independent ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
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consultant.
2 I can't really believe, at least from reading the 3
transcript, that the existence of drafts would nave been an
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astonishing fact to people.
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
To whom?
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6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
To anybody.
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I thought we were all s]
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9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am not sure of that.
Y 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, were you?
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That there were drafts?
No.
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12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I thought everyone else around 5
5 13 the table was, m
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I was surprised when I read 15 Norton's statement be,cause I thought Norton's statement was j
16 so unequivocable, but as far as the existence of drafts by w
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18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, it is only coupled with P
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n 20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am trying to point out the 21.
existence of drafts or drafts being available is not surprising, l
22 l tha t is draf ts being ---
23 '
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That is irrelevant.
24 !
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
No, it is relevant.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well, why don't we let him d
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fi n i sh.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It is more fun to interrupt.
3 (Laughter.)
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
So for me at least I can't g
5 really find that this was truly sig61ficant.
What would have 9
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been significant is had Norton been that positive knew he was i?
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wrong.
Then that would have been a deliberate lie.
But the M
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matter at hand I can't conclude is very significant.
That is d
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why I was asking the question earlier with respect to Phase II z
h 10 because obviously my conclusion that it wasn't very significant 11 is affected by the conclusions that the Phase II report has a
y 12 come to, affected in the negative sense in that if the Phase II 4
13 conclusion had been oh, yes, there were drastic changes made l
14 and there was reall'y a warping, then I would reach a different g
15 conclusion.
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16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
You are combining Phase I and as 17,
Phase II.
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18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am using that as at least k
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So I would have M
20 reached a conclusion of.no actio6.
Now I am still struck by 21 the point that Dick DeYoung had made the other day and that I 22 tnink was supported by a number of people from the region that 23 they have had a lot of difficulty in dealing with the company 24l and that there was sort of a pattern of behavior that was 1
not surprising in the sense of a reluctance to be forthcoming 25.l l
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to the NRC.
2 I am left with a feeling not dissimilar to that which 3
I had when we first addressed the recent Pilgrim action.
It 4
seems that we were planning on taking an action because of a 5
pattern of behavior.
But I would believe, just as I did believe e
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in the Pilgrim case, and which I think we eventually ended up 7
at least closer to where I had' wanted us to be, that if there
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8 is a pattern of behavior and if the management is bad that there d(
9 ought to be more than just one isolated event.
10 I would expect in this case if there is not, then
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g 12 the Chairman to meet with the senior utility people and dress 3
them down or address the specific problems we have and point 13.
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14 out these concerns.
15
.That still ends up leaving what is probably one of j
16 the more difficult questions that I think we as regulators v5 6
17 continuously face and that is the public perception issue.
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18 Public perception has been raised that this is really a serious 5
19 issue and a serious problem and I think that many people expect 20 l ciiat therefore they will look and if we don't take an action 21 then we are a patsy for the industry and if we do take an 22 l action then that is consistent with being noble defenders of 23 '
the public.
24 I Unfortunately, I have to be comfortable with myself 25 with what I end up doing.
So I have reached the conclusion ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
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26 1
I wouldn't give the volation.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
John, you used deliberateness 3
as a criterion for a material false statement.
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
What I am saying, Joe, is that e
5 in the context of a material false statement I am really in b
6 my own mind L say there are two important issues.
One, is it En 7
deliberate; and, two, is it significant.
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8 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well, I don't know how you use dd 9
del i be ra te, in deciding whether it is a material false statement?
Yg 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am saying that there are two 3
5 11 important issues to me that I will address when I am looking g
12 at what a licensee or an applicant does in communication with 5
13 the NRC.
If it is incorrect, first, was it deliberately 14 incorrect.
If it wasn't deliberately incorrect, was it at E
15 least signi ficant.
I find that the answer is no in both of g
16 these cases.
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17 l CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I don't think whether it is 18 deliberate or not influences whether it is a false statement.
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19 The falsity of the statement was confirmed.
n 20 In determining whether or not it had the capacity 21 to influence the NRC staff we have to view it in the context 22 in which it was made and it was made in the context where they 23 were. discussing the reverification program and the independence 24 of that program.
I say, well, it had the capacity to influence 25 the NRC staff with regard to this matter and therefore it is 1
ALDERSON REPORTBMG COWSNM7, nWC.
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miserial and I don't have to examine whether it is deliberate 2
or not.
3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
All I am saying is that I 4
disagree with that as the set of standards because I find that e
5 that doesn't help me look at any of these problems very much.
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6 I think the threshold ends up being much lower than I would R
7 establish for the problems that I would want to deal with.
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COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
John, I don't expect to d
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change your mind on this, but let me pose a situation.
Supposing z
10 that we were testifying before a Congrescicral ' committee, and g
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11 let's take a hypothetical.
We have used sometimes before the m
l 12 issue where an OIA report regarding I&E's ---
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a 14 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
You could say you had even 15 asked sort.6f casually perhaps on the way into the room whether j
16 tne Director of I&E had seen the OIA report and were told no, and w
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17 in the course of, the Congressional hearing had had occasion to tell
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18 the Congress, which was not on the verge of immediately legislatir g E
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g in the area or something like that, so it is not clear that it o
1 20 I was immediately pertinent to their legislation, but you had 21 the occasion to tell them unequivocably that that DIA report 22 had not gone to I&E entirely independent.
Then on leaving the 23 '
hearing there were a couple of different situations.
24 One, someone from OIA came up to you and said, 25 Commissioner Ahearne, I think you ought to know that in fact t
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. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANYo INC0
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a draft is being reviewed.
2 Taken in that situation you would send a note to the 3
Congressional committee ---
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I am sure Chairman Dingell.
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(Laughter.)
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I can't believe that I would 7
answer the question that you suggested the way you have suggested 8
I would answer it if.the information.I had was what..you gave me.
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I think I would an.swer if the question arose that I would just i
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~10 ask the Director of I&E whether he saw the OI A report, and he E
5 11 ' just said no.
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12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That certainly is a more 5
13 prudent answer, but you can't'get away ---
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Peter, yes, I can because you 5
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2 15 asked me what would I do.
I believe that is the answer I would 5
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You can say what if someone else was asked this question M
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But you asked me what 5
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COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Supposing I got myself into M
20 l that mess and came to you and said, John, what do you think I 21 ought to do now?
22 (Laughter.)
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Do you really doubt that you 24 f would tell me that I ought to communicate to the committee that 25 l I had put my foot in it?
A ALDERSOM REPORT 0MG COXPAM% ORCo
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am sure you will view this 2
evasion, but again I don't see you making that answer either 3
based upon that casual comment.
I don't see you being that 4
positive.
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It seems to me the normal 6 - way to answer it if you are informed by your senior officials is to give the answer they gave.
I mean if you have confidence k
in them usually you take responsibility for these things.
Of9 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well, I guess getting involved 10 in Congressional hearings makes you a little more wary.
It took me a while to realize how wary one must be.
(Laughter.)
S 13 j
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I' appreciate it.
I was speaking E
14 more of myself.
w COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
You see, the other half of that hypothetical which may be closer to what happened here would be not to have the person from OIA come up and tell you that, but
=
!5 18 to have the Congress find out about it in suae other way and
=
5 19,
l l
writing a scathing letter over here, and then have it turn out 20 that at two or three different levels out in the staff people had 21 been concerned that that had been a misstatement and had raised 22 j it with others, superiors, who had said oh, don't worry about 23 '
it.
There are other interpretations.
24{
I think I would really feel let down that they hadn't 25 j come to me and given me the choice of whether or not to stick
.. ll.
ALDERSON. REPORTING COM,.oANY, INC.
30 I
by my statement or to correct it.
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARflE:
You won't 1ike this analogy, 3
I am sure, but in a way a closer example is a statement made say 4
in a budget when a Congressman will ask someone did you review 5
the agency's program in this area, and there may be 50 items,
6 and running down on'e of the items it will be mentioned that the 7
budget for this amount is $17.5 million.
Then at some later, n
j 8
point it turns out that it is $25 million.
Whether or not that
'd 9
will be communicated and whether or not the Congress would be 10 upset about that obviously depends upon the specific program and lII how much focus is being placed on it.
g 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But in terms of the way this S
13 I
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institution ought to work or PG&E ought to work, it seems to me 14 ' just to be fundamental that the person who made the misstatement 15 should have it call.ed to his attention so that he gan be aware l'
and appraise whether'or not in terms of what he intended.to convey I7 it is likely that a misunderstanding occurred.
I8 The real breakdown in PG&E seems to be that nobody l~
I' g
went back to Norton and left it up to him.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARilE:
You must realize that every time 21 the Commission testifies, that the Commissioners speak, that every 22 time every senior official in this government tes tifies, that 3!
every time every Congressman speaks there are a host of people, 24 { staff ' members, Congressional staff, NRC staff and agency staff wno flinch because they know that that principal doesn't really
)I, I
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY INC.
31 1
understand all the details and has made a couple of misstatements, 2
and they don't go running up and say oh, wait a minute ---
3 (Laughter.)
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
--- because in their judgment o
5 that doesn't rise to that significance.
bj 6
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, hypothetical examples ---
R 7
(Laughter.)
8 8
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I must say that while hypothetical dd 9
examples are good to help us evaluate our thinking, I don't think i
h 10 that necessarily everything is transferrable from a hypothetical
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5 11 to the actual situation we face now.
y 12 Tom.
3 13 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I essentially agree wi.th John.
I 5u l
14 think there was a false statement.
I do not think it was material b
15 and I do not think we ought to issue a violation.
j 16 I would rather not be interrogated.
I am not going w
b' 17 to change my mind.
5 j
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18 (Laughter.)
C h
19 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I think we are setting a M
l 20 threshold here for a material false statement that is wrong.
I 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let me ask, do you ---
l 22 !
COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I don't want to be interrogated.
23 '
(Laughter.)
24l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I was going to ask you about j
25,. the past.
1 L
i l
j ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY INC.
i 9
32 1
(Laughter.)
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Do you agree with the 3
Commission's decision in North Anna?
The case there, if I can 4
just remind you ---
g 5
COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I have read the case.
S j
6
. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
The company didn't supply a R
7l report which it turned out wouldn't have changed anybody's mind
{
8 and I think in retrospect we regard it as probably wrong but it dd 9
would have been considered at the time, probably considered and 10 rejected, but, anyway, would have been considered.
07 that E
j 11 basis we found Vepco guilty of the material false statement and a
y 12 fined them.
E 13 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
That was a license application l
14 that was in writing and certified.
Victor, I am not going to 15 argue with you and I am not going to change my mind.
g COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That is what this Commission 16 e
I g
17 l is for, arguing ---
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18 (Laughter.)
P y
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I haven't gone back and read 20 that decision.
I wasn't here, as you know, at the time the 21 decision was made.
So it is a question of do I agree with a 22 j previous decision of the Commission.
But when I did read it 23 some months ago I can recall being uncomfortable with the 24,I conclusions.
25 Your initial question was do I agree with it.
My k
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANYa INC0
33 1
basic sense is no, I don't.
But I am really hard put ---
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
So we really want to raise 3
the threshold that was set in that decision.is what you are l
4 saying.
g 5
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think that is probably N
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correct, yes.
R E
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You are uncomfortable with A
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what I guess I and Mark Rowden and Dick Hendrie ---
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9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The radicals ---
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10 (Laughter.)
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11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It is probably not the first a
j 12 time.
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13 (Laughter.)
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l 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
--- and the other radicals ---
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I am not in any way attributing y
16 a philosophical bent to the decision-makers at the time.
I am I
b 17 just saying that I am not comfortable '.sith the decision.
3 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Did you have any comment?
h l
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I can't see how we l
N i
- 20 l could not conclude it was a material false statement.
I am not 21 sure what we would do after that.
I think in any case something 22 more than PG&E management meet with some of our staff is called 23l for.
If we do go down this road we can discuss that when we 24! get there, if we get there.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Wel1, I don ' t know whethe r you l
t t
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I
34 I
want to participate in more discussion.
I was trying to write 2
down questions that we might want to address.
3 Was a falsa statement made by one or more PG&E s
4 employees?
Was that statement material?
If it is a material 5
j false statement, what do we want to do about it?
6 Then I wrote down another question.
What does the R
7 Commission feel about keeping Cloud as an eligible contender nl 8
as an independent auditor based on Phase I?
d f.
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, it seems-to me we ought 0
to take those in sequence.
fII CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I am just giving you the to'tal'ity N
of the questions so that as we address them we kn'c6 what di f
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13 following.
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14
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Now I am open to any suggestions on 4 hanging the 9
15
. g questions or asking different ones.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think my sense is that ~you _
g 17 have three votes to go in towards a yjolation.
So as far as x
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18 your first question is concerned, for myself I would prefer for
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the three of you to reach a conclusion as to what type of J;
1 20 violation or penalty you want to exact.
You see, I am approachin,g 21 it from a different set of standards.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I a'ppreciate that, but if there i
23 is a conclusion that it is a material false statement that 'doesn't 24 i exclude you from deciding what ought to be done i.b.out it evsn 25 e
though you may not agree.
I
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY.INC.
9
35 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, I have already concluded 1
2 that what ought to be done in this circumstance is nothing formal
~
3 and an informal chewing out session between you preferably and 4
the senior officers of the company.
5' CHAIRMA'N PALLADIN0:
Well, I think I have to ask the e
5 6
question.
If it is a material false statement, and I guess I R
7 would have to divide that into several parts. Do you wish to 3
j 8
have a notice of violation or do you wish to have a notice of d
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violation with a civil penalty?
If it is a material false z
h 10 statement I don't think we can escape without at least a notice E
11 of violation.
y 12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I don't want to be obstreperous, 5
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13 Joe.
However, since I disagree with it meeting my standards of a l
14 material false statement I don't think that I should participate
$j 15 then in a decision on what the violation ought to be because I m
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am going to disagree with the penalty, with the fact that a w
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I don't think therefore that I ought 1
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18 to be moderating what penalty the three of you are going to give.
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19 '
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I find that difficult in view g
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20 of the fact that you wanted to take some punitive action on the 21 individuals involved at least in terms of calling them on the 22 carpet.
I find that that is really what a notice of violation l
1 23 '
is and I want to call the management people on the carpet and l
24 l I want to make sure that some action is taken as a result of it.
l l
25 That is what I find is the value of a notice of violation.
i l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
s 36
\\'i COMMISISONER AHEARNE:
My option for the mechanism 2
to call tnem on the carpet would be for you to meet them.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADIMd:
Well, the reason I think it is 4, inportant with your-thinkin'g that is closer to ---
g.
5 CONAISSIGNER GILINSKY:
We won't press you, Joe.
8 s
6 (Laughter.)
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CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Maybe you ought to think twice 8
before you sey, well, it is going to get worse rather than d
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get better.
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. [3 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I recognize it will get worse.
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j 12 CliAIRMAN-PALLADINO:
Maybe you don't want to go through 5
i3 the three s teps.- May' we ought to just vote and say if it is a g
' l'4 material false statement if that is satisfactory and we can i
M.
E 15 jump right to'that question.
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f '16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would say no.
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17 f C'0MMIS3I0aER ROBERTS:
I would say no.
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18
[COMMI.SSIONERGILINSKY:
Yes.
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8, 19 COMMISSIONER B'RADFORD:
Yes.
g 20 CHAIRMAN PA(LADINO:
I would say yes.
s2l All-right, we have three to two to say yes.
7 J-22 l Now with regard to ---
<l 23 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Excuse me, just a moment.
What 24 are the nechanics here.
Is a piece of paper going to come out?
25 COMMISSIONER GILIMSKY:
The Commission would have to 4
P ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
37 I
issue an opinion or an order to support its statement and you 2
would certainly have the opportunity, and John would ---
3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, wait a minute.
.s 4
(Laughter.)
5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Normally a notice of violation 0
would come from the staff.
Now it certainly isn't inconceivable
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7 that we could concoct a different procedure, but the normal one, K) 8 depending on what happens next, would be for the staff to issue dh' the notice of violation.
We have sort of invented documents in 10 the past when Commissioners had separate views.
Sometimes it is fII the instruction from Sam to the staf f.
fI CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Does the Commission ever issue 13 g
a no'tice of violation?
I4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
There is no reason it can't.
E9 15 g
Well, there may be a reason it can't.,
f16 Go ahead, Jim.
MR. MURRAY:
I believe it is without precedent, but x
M 18 there is no reason why the Commission couldn't.
It has delegated
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l 19l the authority to its subordinate officers to issue such a notice and the Commission could do that.
The cause analogies are when the Commission itself issues orders these orders are not always premised on violation of anything but the Commission issues the 1
orders, like the Three Mile order.
24 l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, in one way or another we are giving instruction to the staff.
Even if the notice of l
t ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
38 violation is issued by the staff theri is no problem, it seems to me, with the Commission expressing itself.
MR. MURRAY:
None whatsoever that I can see.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
That might be another question l
of whether we want to do it that way or issue an order from N
6 1
the Commission.
E 7
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, as far as I am cor)cerned it doesn't make any difference which way it is done, I will ci 9
contend, whether it is a memo to the staff or an order of the j
h 10 Commission if I can append my views to whatever document.
z_
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The normal next steps would d
12 be if the company disagrees they can request a hearing and 2
the Commission winds up being the ultimate judge of the appellate E
14 y
process -- no?
?
15 j-MR. MURRAY:
Not on a mere notice of violation.
Only if there is some escalated enforcement action, and by that I
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17 mean a civil penalty or an order.
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18 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I see.
They can't request 5
19 j
l a hearing o f any sort ---
20 MR. MURRAY:
--- on a notice of violation.
That is 21 correct.
They can request it but they are not entitled to it.
22 (Laughter.)
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do you find it agreeable to 24 i
- append your comments ---
25 ji COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I don't care what they are j
l:
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
- t- ~ ~ ---
= ~ ~ ~
I 39 I
appended to.
'I just want them publicly known.
2
( La u g'h te r. )
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I guess the next question is 4
having a three to two vote on identifying the material false 5
statement, what do we want to do about it?
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7
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10 i
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I4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
2 15 E
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23 !
24l 25 (Laughter.)
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COMMIS S ION E R 9.GBE-kT4:
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COMMISSIONER ERAtWORD.
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CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
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COMMI5S IONER trri.=4-idt 2
15 f6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
6 17 E
18 I think we have another question to answer, and that A
g" 19 is should Cloud Associates ---
0 COMMISSIONER GILINKSY:
Well, you know, before we get to that we were talking about you had another item in your 22 proposal which was some interacti6n.with the company.
23ll CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Oh, in my proposal I had that this order should call for a meeting with the top officials, as it 23 did, for example, in a more recent one, except that I think in oLDEf5 SON REPORTING COMP ANY.-INC.- -. - - -
42 I
this particular case they should be asked to meet with the staff 2
to outline steps to be taken to avoid situations such as developed 3
on November 3 and to review procedures for handling the independent
/
4 audits for the Diablo Canyon plant.
o 5
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Now what do you have in mind 5
6 there?
What is it that our staff would say to them?
R 7
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I guess I didn't put it into s]
8 words because I didn't know how to do it nicely and maybe it d
C 9
shouldn't be done nicely.
I think because of their basic z,
h 10 attitude they need to have their attention called to the matter E
h 11 of basic attitude.
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12 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
That headline in the LA Times 5
13 when this violation comes out is going to get their attention.
l 14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Part of the problem I had with 15 that statement is situations su.ch as developed out of the,, meeting tj 16 is very nebulous and to review procedures for handling leads me
- d I
g 17 I to think of a meeting in which many members of our staff meet a:
18 with many members of theirs and there is a rambling discussion.
C 19 I would think it would be much more useful if you 20 l were to meet with the ex.ecutive. level of their company and not 2I be very euphemistic about the problems that have been seen, which l
22 ! I would believe you could get from the Region V people and from 23 ! DeYoung which would go beyond just this one instance.
24 l CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is this a practice or has it been l
25 ldone that the Chairman do this?
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANYo INC.
43 1
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, I don't know.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Would it include participation 3
by the staff?
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
My recommendation would be 5
very few staff.
What I would encourtge you to try to do is j
6 to have a face-to-face meeting with a small group on both sides R
7 which could then be very blunt.
Kj 8
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Closed?
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COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would hope so.
h 10 MR. FOUCHARD:
In private?
N 11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would think so.
O g
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is that legal?
5 5
13 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Does that give you problems, Joe?
u l
14 MR. F0VCHARD:
Can they meet with ---
15 MR. BICKWI,T:
Yes.
a tj 16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
As long as it is not ex parte w
f I7 i you can I suppose.
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18 MR. BICKWIT:
It would not be given the subject E
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matter that would be discussed.
k 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I am sure it it such a great 21 idea to have a meeting.
You know, you can yourself say things 22 to them separately, but I think there has to be a public aspect.
23 ;
CHAIRMAN PALLADION:
May I ask a question.
For example, 24{ when the Boston Edison people come down, you had called them in, 25 jis that going to be a public meeting or is that going to be a 1
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
44 3
MR. MURRAY:
I was at that meeting and so were you, 2
Jim.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Oh, it happened already.
4 MR. SNIEZEK:
We had a meeting where the Boston e
5 Edison people did come down and that was not a public meeting.
Ej 6
They met with..Mr..DeYoung in the Operations Center and there was 7-just the staff and Boston Edison there.
8 MR. BICKWIT:
It is not a legal matter, but the dd 9 prospect of a public meeting I don't think is appealing in z
h 10 a situation like this.
Ej 11 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
No, but I was trying to find out D
g 12 iwhat.has: been done in the past.
5 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, an alternative to all l
14 this is a letter from you.
2 15 MR. MURRAY:
There have been public meetings as well, j
f 16 Mr. Chairman.
At Marble Hill, for example, Vic Stello met with w
d 17 ;the senior people there and it was quite a media event as I E
18 understand it.
0 19 MR. FOUCHARD:
Not involving the Chairman, Jim.
R 20 MR. MURRAY:
No, that is true.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well, I might agree with you 22,that review procedures for handling the independent audits is i
23 !getting in a direction we may not necessarily want to go, but I 24 ;sure do want to make sure they outline steps to avoid situations 251ike this and in the process you would let them know how important 3
3 i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
45 I
tnis it.
2 flow whether it should be the staff or the Chairman, 3
I think our past practice has been the staff.
,. ~
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, what would they say a
5 to them.
May be we can hear e sample.
U 6
(Laughter.)
R 6,
7 MR. DENTON:
We have had a lot of meetings with l
8 utilities on management attitudes in general.
At our last meeting dn 9
with PG&E on the reverification effort we pointedly said that 10 the transcript would be made available to everyone so it could 5
j 11 be corrected in'.the>next few> days.if'they.found anything in there.
O j
12 that.needed> changing.
So we tried to set up a procedural 5
13 mechanism so that people would be sensitive to what was on the 5u 14 transcript and indicateo several times that we were going to rely 15 on the transcript and how important the transcrip't was.
j 16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Which meeting was this?
d j
,i 17 j MR. DENTON:
We just completed a recent meeting on
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18 the reverification program with PG&E in which we went through the k
g 19 l factors that were identified in the letter back to Congress n
20 that we'were going to consider in judging independence and 21 qualification of companies.
22 The meeting that you seem to be discussing is one 23 that would flow from the types of items that Mr. DeYoung described 24 f last time as presistent management difficulties between ourselves 25 and the company over a number of years and would make up an i
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
l
1 46 I
agenda based on that sort of issue rather than on just this 2
particular meeting.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes, you could call them on the carpet for this meeting in that particular aspect.
I,was trying 4
5 to get at getti6g the attention to the faults in their attitude.
6 MR. DENTON:
I think it would go toward their general 8
I E
7 insensitivity over the years' to some of our concerns and apparently 8
the lacx of communication up and down the line in the company as r)j to who is responsible for interacting with us.
9 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Well, I think in view of the II fact that this is the way it has.been handled in the past,.I g
12 still think it is proper for the staff to do it.
You know, you 33 g
13 use your big guns, and I am using it only symbolically ---
l 14 (Laughter.)
g 15 l COM!iISSIONER ROBERTS:
You are the biggest gun we z
10 have got.
h II (Laughter.)
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
If you use it when a rifle will E
I' '
g do you may not be making the best use of the circumstances.
O if once, twice, three times, you know, the second time,
- However, 21j 1
then you may want to use back-up ammunition.
22 I recall the story of the farmer and his wife who 23 ' had been married for 50 years.
On their anniversary a reporter 24 asked them how they managed.o live so happily for 50 years.
25 He says, well, on our wedding day driving back to the farm the j
l r
- I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
47 I
horsi slipped and he went out and helped him up and he says, 2
that is once.
He went on a little more and the horse slipped 3
again, that is twice.
Then the horse slipped again and he said, r
4 that is three times, and he shot him.
Then the wife started to
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5 get all upset and said why did you kill the horse?
He says, 5
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that is once.
7 (Laughter.)
8 8
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Let me propose that the ;;;M.4 0d 9
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A;.
I am not wedded to the words in this
,z 10 proposal.
I do think that we have to address this issue and 11 make sure that s'o_ething is done about correcting their approach.
m y
12 I do intend to capture what Dick DeYoung has said, to get to 3
5 13 other matters of management intention and would propose that the m
l 14 staff do it.
g 15 Is there a reasonable concurrence to that?
z 16 3;
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
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17 (Other Commissioners gave no audible response.)
l b
18 (Mr. Oircks at this point returns to the' Commissioners' 5
19, table.)
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You just missed being the man, 21 (Laughter )
22,
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
i i
23 24 N'd (69u pf 49
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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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2 COM'!!ISSIONER BRADFORD:
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CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
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21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, I think that concludes our 22 ! action on Phase I.
We do have~ the Phase II report.
I have read 1
23 ; everything through "C".
I have read most of "D" and have paged 24 through all of "E".
I have paged through all of it, but I 25 did read everything through "C" and must of "D" and paged through
50 1
"E" looking for specific points, particularly those on 3.3.5.11 2
and 3.3.5.12.
Maybe we could leave that to our next meeting.
3 Bobby?
4 (Laughter) e 5
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Are any of you still on?
h 3
6 (Laughter.)
R 7
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Jesse?
A j
8 (Laughter.)
d y
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, you know, it is " loss" z
h 10 time out there.
E j
11 (Laughter)
L3 y
12 CHAIRMAN-PALLADIN0:
.I guess we lost you all.
5 y
13 (Laughter.)
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14 MR. CREWS:
We are here but you were cut out very 15 briefly.
We heard the tailend of your statement but I think j
16 you would need to restate it for Bobby.
w(
17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Could I just ask before you I
18 go on to Phase II ---
i~
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19 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
I wasn't going on to Phase II l
20 today.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Oh, I am sorry.
22 '
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Go ahead.
l 23 COM!iISSIONER GILINSKY:
I was just going to ask about i
24 l the mechanics of what happens at this point.
25j CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Let me finish.
if 4
3 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
51 I
Bobby, you said you wanted something repeated?
2 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
This is Bob Faulkenberry:
We did 3
not hear your question.
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Which question?
5 (Laughter.)
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I was just finding out whether R
7 you were there and whether you had any closing comments.
]
8 MR. FAULKENBERRY:
We are still here but we do not dj have any closing comments at this time.
9 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
All right.
The question was II asked here how do we proceed.
I gather a possible way is for g
12 the Secretary to draft a memo to the staff which gives the S
13 5
Commissioners an opportunity to append their comments and I guess l
14 we ought to get it ci:'culated and approved by the Commission and 15 then that would be the basis for the order by the staff.
ij 16 Is this a reasonable way to approach it?
us h
I7 '
MR. BICKWIT:
Either that or simply a Commission a:
{
18 statement, something with the title " Statement" at the top 5
19 taking your position on these three points.
Then Commissioners n
20 could attach their views 21
. COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That may be better because 22 it avoids the sort of oddness of a staff document with Commission r l
23 ! views attached to it.
24 i
MR. FOUCHARD:
May I play Kamikaze pilot here for 25
, j ust a momen t.
If the Commission really wants to stress the
- 1 i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
52 1
action it is taking it would be better for the action to come 2
under the auspices of the Commission.
In that way you could also 3
attach your separate views.
I am not quite sure of the mechanics 4
of getting the separate views attached to a staff notice of e
5 violation, but anything is possible.
5j 6l COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I said I would be happy with 7
any form I can attach my views to.
I didn't intend it to be a
]
8 attached to the notice of vilation.
I intended it to be attached, d
ci 9
for example, if the Commission put out the order then it would z
h 10 be with that.
If the Commission put out:a's'taff requirements-E 11 memo directed to the staff it would be with.that.
Staff is y
12 requirements memos end up getting wide distribution and it is Ed 13 a public knowledge document, j
14 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
You said you didn't think it 15 was proper to have a staff requirements memo?
f 16 l MR. BICKWIT:
I don't think it is improper.
It just v5 1
g 17 l seems to me that given the elevation. of this issue and the amount 5
M 18 of, time you put into it that it makes sense for the Commission E
19 to issue a statement.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
A statement.
21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
How about the notice of 22 violation.
23 '
MR. BICKWIT:
The f.irst paragraph of the statement 24; would be that the Commission has directed the staff to issue I
25 j a notice of violation.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
o 53 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Have we done that before?
Do 2
we have precedence?
3 MR. BICKWIT:
I don't know.
4 MR. MURRAY:
I don't believe so.
I see nothing wrong 5
g with it.
e' 3
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
In other words, it would be 7
a staff requirements memo but it would be in the form of a e'i j
8 statement.
d c;
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
All right.
z h
10 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
When is this going to happen?
11 It is 3:20 on Friday afternoon.
is j
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I would urge that it 4l 13 happen fairly soon.
l 14 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
I can't hear you.
.g 15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I 'would urge that it would z
a[
16 happen fairly soon.
This is the sort of thing one doesn't want us f
17 to sit on for a long time.
i 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
What resources do we have to i:
19 prepare this statement?
l 20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I will not be able to give 21 you my piece which I want attached entil Monday.
22 MR. F00 CHARD:
I would urge as early next week as 23 f possible.
I can play stiff arm over the weekend.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Can you and Faar help prepare 25 the statement working with Sam?
?l I
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
54 1
MR. BICKWIT:
All right.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLA~0INO:
We do want to circulate it to the 3
Commission before:it goes out for Commission approval.
4 (Laughter.)
a 5
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well thank you very much, Bobby and h]
6 Jesse and Phillip.
We are going to sign off.
R 7
VOICE:
All right.
j 8
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Thank you for your participation.
Od 9
MR. DIRCKS:
Could I ask a question before you leave?
g 10 Next Tuesday you are meeting again on this issue.
What did
=
Il you want to come out of that meeting that we haven't explored a
y 12 today?
5 f13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I have already written mine.
I l
14 think it is whether or not it changes my opinion about keeping 15 Cloud as an eligible independent auditor.
j 16 MR. DIRCKS:
This is not based on his qualifications e
h 17 ! but on this incident.
f18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I am just trying to close the cs 19 s
November 3rd incident and I think a major issue is do we wish a
20 :
to change the conclusion we had today.
21 MR. DIRCKS:
Do you wish Faulkenberry to be in here 22 on Tuesday afternoon?
23l CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I am going to suggest that since 24 this seemed to work reasonably well we call them again on 25 l Tuesday.
?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
l 55 I
MR. DIRCKS:
All right.
2 Thank you very much.
3 The meeting is adjourned.
4 (Whereupon, at 3:25 p.m.,
the closed meeting e
5 adjourned.)
ha6 a
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l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
s' s
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!UC:2A2 41.avCRY C519C.*.SICN This 11 00 OS.Mif*/ that the. attached prccteding2 bef0rt the COMMISSION MEETING 10 the sattar* cf:,
CLOSED MEETING - EXEMPTION 5 - DISCUSSION OF PHASE 1 OF THE DIABLO CANYON REPORT Cata cf Freceedist:
February 5, 1982 l
l Occkat th:nther:
Flace of Precsedisg:
Washincton, D.
C.
4ers held as hereis appears, anc chah. this is the criginal :: acsc:-ipt l
therocf fcr the file of the C =:::issicc.
l Mary C. Simons Cfficial Zeger:4.- (77:ed)
A rri M Officizi Easceter (514:2cu. e )
.