ML20041E781

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Unofficial Transcript of 820305 Public Meeting in Washington,Dc Re DOE Request for Exemption Under Section 50.12 to Conduct Site Preparation Activities.Pp 1-19
ML20041E781
Person / Time
Site: Clinch River
Issue date: 03/05/1982
From:
NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8203110436
Download: ML20041E781 (20)
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Text

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s = I 1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ( 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I i (- l 3 4 PUBLIC FEETING 5 VOTE ON THE GRANTING OF THE DOE REQUEST FOR 6 EXEMPTION UNDER SECTION 50.12 l 7 DOE FOR SITE PREPARATION 8 FOR CLINCH RIVER BREEDER REACTOR 9 l 10 Room 1130, 11 1717 H Stree t N.W., 12 Washington, D.C. 13 Friday, March 5, 1982 ("'. 14 15 The Commission met at 10:00 a.m., pursuant to 16' notice, Nunzio Palladino, Chairman of the Commission, 17 presiding. 18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: 19 Nunzio Palladino. 20 John Ahearne. 21 Victor Gilinsky. 22 Peter Bradford. 23 Thomas Roberts. (, 24 25 ( ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

2 ~ 1 STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT COMMISSION 2 TABLE: (- 3 Leonard Bickwit. 4 Samuel Ch' ilk. 5 Forrest Remick.' 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 l 14 ~15 16 17 18 l l l 19 4 20 f 21 l i 22 i .? ( 24 f 25 i j l ( i i h ~ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, j 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 202) 554-2345 I

4 \\ ~ C \\ DISCLAIMER This is arr unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Comission-held on March $, 1982 in the Co:missi'on's offices at 1717 H Street, N. W., Wasnington, D. C. The i meeting was open to public attendance and observation. This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies... The transcript is intended solely for general infomational pureoses. As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the forinal or infonnal - record of decision of the matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in

this. transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs.

No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Comission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any* statement or argument - contained. hereirr, except as the Comission may autharize. 4 t e 1 I (

~ 3 EB9CEEDIE9E 2 CHAIREAN PALLADINO: The meeting vill please 3 come to orde r. ( r 4 This morning 's meeting is a continuation of 5 our discussion of the DOE request for exemption under 6 50.12 to conduct site preparation activities for 'the 7 Clinch River breeder reactor. 8 At our previous meeting on March 1, 1982, an' 9 open issue remained as'to whether order for me to later 10 be able ta propose reconsideration of the request, I 11 would need now to vote against the exemption. 12 I have received an opinion from the General 13 Counsel which I understand to say that I do n.ot.need to (" 14 vote against the exemption now in order to retain the. 15 option to request reconsideration later. I~would like 16 the General Counsel to confirm my understand at this 17 time. 18 MR. BICKWIT: You have it confirmed. 19 CHAIRHAN PALLADINO: I am pleased, at least, 20 with that opinion. This frees me to vote on the 21 exemption request on the basis of what I believe to be 22 correct. 23 At this time, I would like to ask the 24 Commissioners whether they wish to discuss the General 25 Counsel's opinion, or summarize their individual ( ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

4-4 ( 1 opinions on the exemption, or raise other issues 2 pertaining to the DOE request. ~ 3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORDs I have one question. 4 If, in fact, the matter comes up for 3 reconsideration, say, in six months, dould it do so on 6 the existing record, or would the record have to be 7 supplemented ? 8 MR. BICKWIT: My view would be that under 9 those circumstances, you would have to have a new 10 application. Assuming judicial review had expired', you 11 would have to have a new application and there would be 12 a right to comment on that application. The comment 13 period might be a brief one. The commentors would be i 14 authorized to put forward their view that the existing 15 record satisfied the current, views of the Commission at 16 tha t time, and the Commission would consider that matter 17 at that time. 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: The presumption there is 19 that it came some six months later. What if it came 20 sooner, are there different circumstances? 21 MR. BICKWIT: If it came sooner, if it came 22 before the time for judicial review had expired 23 COMMISSIONER ROBERTSi What is the length of ( 24 that time? 25 MR. BICKWIT: Sixty days under the Hobbs Act. I i ALDERSCN REPORTING COMPANY. INC. ~ 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON D'.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

T ~ 5 ( 1 the Commission could reconsider without a-2 new application. I believe they could do it on the 3 basis of the existing record. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKIs Are you treating this 5 as an adjudication, or are you coming out with that 6 conclusion because it is not an adjudication? 7 ER. BICKWITs I believe it to be an informal 8 adjudication, therefore, I an obviously not coming to 9 'this conclusion because it is an adjudication. I 10 believe it to be an informal adjudication. 11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Are there any other 12 questions or comments? 13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I have about a 20 page [' 14 opinion that is currently being retyped and I hope to 15 distr'ibute it to the Commissioners this afte'rnnon, just 16 to the Commissioners. I intend to publish it early next 17 week. 18 Basically, it makes the point that Section 19 50.12 has an interesting history. I conclude that it 20 can be epplied here, but it is a close call as to i l l 21 whether it should. On balance, I believe it can be l 22 applied. However, in balancing the four f actors of 23 50.12(b),-I find the application fails. l ( 24 I must say that the strongest point to.me was 25 the really poor job that the Applicant did on the cost ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 40G VIAG NIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 ('202) 554 2345

\\ 6 ( 1 of delay. This possibly would not have been an issue, 2 but the Applicant made it one, and to me, a t least, ( 3 raised real doubts as to whether the Applicant t 4 understands what licensing means. 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I wonde'r if I could also 6 summarize my position. I also would like to append I 7 additional remarks. 8 COHNISSIONER GILINSKY: I assume that those { 9 vill all come in at the same time? 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I would rather wait until r 11 ve address the order to raise that question. 12 I firmly believe.that the DOE request for an 13 exemption under 50.12 should be granted so that the site i 14 preparation activities can proceed at the CRBR site. I 15 arrive at this conclusion because I believe that the f 16 criteria under 50.12 are satisfied in this case. 17 The information and analysis which we have 18 received on the public order from the participants and 19 from the Commission officers demonstrate that: 20 (1) The site prepara tion activities will not 21 have a significant adverse effect or impact on the 22 environment of the CRBR site. 23 (2) The impact of site preparation can be 24 redressed and the site returned to a condition suitable l 25 for future uses. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D'.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

7 ( 1 (3) The site preparation activities do not 2 toreclose future alternatives, including the use of the ~ 3 g-site for the other purposes. 4 (4) Delay in conducting site preparation 5 activities, in view of the readiness of the Applicant, 6 the national policy to go forward with the CRBR p'roject, 7 can only result in harm to the public interest. 8 I do not understand the position of fellov 9 Commissioners who oppose the DOE request on the basis 10 tha t granting the exemption would not be in the gublic 11 interest. 12 It appears to me that in opposing the 13 exemption request, they are saying that the public 14 interest is better served by denying the petition than 15 by granting it. l 16 How is the public interest served by not going 17 forward with the CRBH project where the Congress has 18 approved the construction and operation on an expedited 19 basis, and the Applicant is ready and able, and where 20 the activities proposed pose no lasting threat to the 21 environment and the public health and safety? 22 If one agrees that there are no environmenta'l l 1 23 health and safety reasons to deny the exemption,.one. 24 must ask the question, what can be the basis for denying i 25 it. One reason that has been suggested is that I I I i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. 400 VIRGINtA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 [202) 554-2345

8 ~ 1 ( 1 licensibility of'the CRBR would not be proved if this 2 exemption were granted. 3' However, an exemption for site clearing'and 4 preparation will not remove the requirement of a i 5 construction permit before the CRBR is built. The 6 granting of this exemption woul'd not foreclose the 7 consideration of any proper question about the=CRBR in 8 that CP proceeding. ~ 9 I cannot understand how licensibility is at 10 stake in our decision on the exemption, unless one 11 aspect's that the CRBR licensibility is to test its 12 ability to withstand unnecessary delay in regulatory 13 approval of site clearing and preparation. (' 14 Huch attention has been given to the economic 15 cost of delay. I do believe that the CRBR will be more 16 costly if we delay'the requested exemption. 17 Fortunately, 50.12(b)(4) of our regulation,-which was 18 probably drafted with a commercial generating station in 19 mind, has unduly narrowed the discussions about the 20 public interest questions. 21 In summary, I believe that granting the 22. exemption is in the public interest. The criteria for 23 exemption are satisfied and completion and operation of ( 24 the CRBR has already been determined by Congress to be 25 in the public interest. ( ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

9 1 The Congressional intent for expeditiouc 2 completion of'the project is to further RCD purpose and 3 benefits of the project for the na tional good will occur-4 sooner and the hardships and uncertainties created by-l 5 unnecessary delay of the project are minimized. l 6 Therefore, I would ap~ prove the exemption 7 request. 8 COMMISSIONER ROBERTSs I have a statement 9 also. 10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINos All right, go. ahead. 11 COHNISSIONER ROBERTSs I would vote to grant 12 DOE's request for exemption. 13 Section 50.12 which provides applicants with 14 the opportunity to request an exemption is a regulatory ~ 15 requirement. It establishes an alternate route by which 16 an applicant may pursue licensing approval. Simply put, 17 there are two routes to pursuing licensing approval. 18 One is the traditional route and the other one involves l l 19 granting an exemption. The difference between these two i 20 routes is that the exemption route is f aster than the 21 traitional route. 22 Every finding required by the Atomic Energy 23 Act and the National Environmental Policy Act will be ( 24 made regardless of whether the DOE choses the 25 traditional route or the exemption route. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 k202) 554 2345 i l

I 10 l I (~ 1 Section 50.12 establishes tire findings which 2 must be made in order to permit the granting of an 3 g-exemption. I conclude that DOE has made the showing 4 necessary to satisfy each of the four criteria. 5 With regard to cost'of delay', which is but one 6 of the elements which can be considered under the public 7 interest criteria, I conclude that DOE has shown a cost 8 of delay of about $28 million. NRDC has admitted that 9 this could be $20 million. In my mind a saving to the' 10 taxpayers of $20 million is significant. 11 Beyond this, I conclude that the cost of delay 12 analyses have been incomplete on both the part of DOE 13 and NRDC. I have seen no discussion of the effect of l 14 delay on the liquid metal fast breeder reactor program. 15 I have seen no discussion of the effect of delay in i 16 terms of increased regulatory requirements. I have seen 17 no discussion of escalation costs. 18 In othe. words, I conclude that while DOE has 19 made the showing necessary to demonstrate the 20' significant cost of delay, I believe that if the 21 analyses had been more sophisticated the cost of delay 22.would have been larger. 23 In sum, I conclude that the granting of the ( 24 exemption is in the public due to the early receipt of 25 research and knowledge which would flow from early ( ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

11 I 1 operation of this reactor. 2 I think there is virtually no disagreement j i 3 that the other three criteria of 50.12 have been met', 4 and for the reasons stated herein, I would approve the 5 request. 6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: 'Are there an y othe~r I 7 statements or questions? 8 COHNISSIONER BRADFORD: Just a comment, I I 9. don 't have a prepared statement, yet. I will next i I 10 week. 11 It just seems to 'me that no matter how one 12 talks about delay and findings being met, and what have 13 you, there is no getting around the fundamental. point ~( t 14 that this is a request for special treatment. l l 15 We have a large number of license applications 16 pending before us for various types of facilities, and ~ ~ 17 almost without exception they have not gone the 50.12 18 route. To.get special treatment you have to make a 19 strong sheving of special circumstances or special [ l 20 benefits as described within the criteria. 21 I am in agreement with John that. the economic I 22 case just is not there. I would perhaps put it less in 23 terms of DOE's ineptitude in presenting the case than l ( 24 that they hampered by the fundamental fact that there 25 was no case to be made on that point. i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIAGlNIA AVE., S.W., 'A ASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

12 i' 1 The utilities themselves recognize that when 2 the benefits of a reactor are delayed because the need 3 for power isn't there, they can often benefit 4 financially by slipping the construction schedule and 5 spreading the costs that ther"have to' incur over a 6 longer period. 7 It is not self-evident that postponing the 8 start of construction f or a project whose benefits are 9 speculative at best is necessarily a costly to do. I 10 think that that is the fundamental point on which the l 11 DOE economic case fails. 12 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s Any other comments? 1 13 (No response.) l ( 14 CHAIRHAN PALLADIN0s Then I suggest that we j 15 address the question, shall we accept the exemption 16 request made by DOE. Are you ready to vote on the 17 question? 18 All those in favor of granting the exemption , 19 request, please indicate by raising your hand. 20 (Show of hands.) 21 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN04 Those opposed to granting 22.the exemption request, please indicate by raising your l 23 hand. 24 (Show of hands.) 25 CHAIBHAN PALLADINO: Therefore, the Commission ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

i i 13 f 'r 1 has ruled that the CRBR exemption request will not be 2 g ra nted. 3 We also have before us the suggested order 4 which I suppose we ought to discuss, and perhaps we vill 3 vant to vote on it. 6 I find one problem with the order,-it seems to 7 imply that we cannot append the separate views of-8 additional commissioners to this order. That is the [ 9 'first time I have ever seen where the Commission would 10 say that an individual member cannot append additional 11 remarks. 12 COHNISSIONER BRADFORD: Where do you find 13 that? (' 14 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: On the secOnd page it ~ 15 sayss "The Commission has decided to deny the. request 16 and will shortly publish a statement of reasons 17 underlying this decision. This statement will include 18 the separate views of individual Commissioners." 19 I would like both the opportunity to append my 20 separate remarks when the reasons are given, and I would 21 like to also have the opportunity to append separate 22 remarks, and any Commissioner to append his separate 23 remarks. i 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa I understood this to 25 be simply confirming in writing'what happened today. I t ALDERSON REPORTING CCMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGIN!A AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 k202) 554 2345 1

14 / 1 Presumably there would be a Commission decision to which 2 all other individual views would be appended. That is ~ 3 ( the way I understood it, and that is the way I would 4 expect to present my own views at that time. 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO ' But this order does not 1 6 preclude any Commissioner from' appending his separate 7 views to the order. 8 COMNISSIONER GILINSKY: I would expect -- I 9 suppose Len ought to speak for himself, since he 10 presented the order. But the way I understood it, this 11 would'be something that would go out today to simply 12 confirm today's action. The Commission would then, 13 early next week or whenever it was ready, produce an [' 14 opinion, and all other views of the Commissioners would 15 all go out together. That seems to me to be the requiar 16 war we do it. 17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: No, it is not the regular 18 vay we do it. He allow opinions to be appended to the i l 19 order, and I would like to have that privilege. i l 20 COMMISSION ER BR ADFORD : Does it help to hold 21 the order until all the opinions are ready? 22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I think it there would be 23 value in each of us seeing the ' others ' opinion, if we (' 24 are going to do it that way. It will delay the order by 25 a couple of days. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINI A AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

1 15 u 3 ( 1 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I take it, the order 2 having been voted on -- 3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: kstheformalact the 4 publication of this? 5 MR. BICKWIT: It is. 6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: So the vote is not 7 really the formal act. 8 MR. BICKWIT4 No. You have now voted your l 9 sense. You now have to decide what it is you want to 10 issue. t i f 11 COMMISSIONEF 3dADFORD4 We could vote again to 12 approve this order, and simply not issue it until A 13 opinions were ready to attach to it. ( 14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Would it suffice to 15 say, " disc.uss the exemption request, pe riod. The f 16 Commissioners decided to deny the request, period. 17 Separate views of individual Commissioners are f 18 attached. Chairman Palladino and Commissione Roberts 19 dissent and would have granted the exemption." Then 20 vote on that, and that would include that all of our 21 opinions would be attached. 22 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN04 -We can also say, if we j 23 vant, that the Commission vill publish a stateme.nt of ~ ( 24 reasons later, and there ma y be additional remarks even 25 after that, but we don't know. I \\ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 k202) 554-2.'45

9g l 1 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Would that suffice? 2 Obviously, Peter is concerned because he would ~ 3 like to be here when the order gets issued. 4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Actually, it is less 5 that than just making sure that what I voted on is the 6 order. So that there is no question of the validity of 7 the order af ter I am gone. 8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO You have a point? 9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes, what I would i 10 propose is that we take the second page and say, 11 " Subsequently, in the early part of March, etc., 12 period." And then we say, "The Commission has decided 13 to deny the request' -- strike out "and will shortly 14 publish a statement of reasons underlyirg this decision, 15 and the statement will include the separate views of 16 individual Commissioners." 17 You go on to say, " Chairman Palladino and 18 Commissioner Roberts dissent, and would have granted the l , 19 exemption." Then finish with, " Views of individual 20 Commissioners are attached." 21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Do you want to add a 22. sentence at the end that says, "The Commission vill 23 sho r.tly publish a statement of reasons underlying the l 24 decision"? I 25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Would you put that out ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 1 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 200:4 (202) 554 2345

37 1 1 today, John? l ( 2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: No, we would wait a j 3 couple of days. I would have us vote on that, and then 4 ve would '.tave voted on the order. 5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: All right. 6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Then it would just be 7 the individual views that would have to be attached. 8 But we would not have to actually come back and vote on 9 anything because the individual views are not a matter 10 that we vote on. 11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: That is right. 12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I do think that because j i 13 of the sensitivity of the case, and the str.ong opinions ( 14 ve all have, I would like to see us exchange our j 15 opinions, so that modifications indicate tha't we could 16 do it. 17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That is right. 18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINC. I think I could have mine 19 ready today. They will be essentially a restatement of 20 what I already said. If we could get others today -- i 21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes, mine vill be ready i i 22 today. l 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Commissioner Roberts, is ( 24 yours ready to comment on? i 25 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: No, it is not. 9 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 l202) 554 2345

18 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY : I will ha ve one 2 shortly. 3 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: hinevill be ready the 4 first of next week. ~ 5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: We ought to try to make 6 an effort to get this out early next week. i 7 We are going to vote on the proposal as l 8 modified by Commissioner Ahearne. l 9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I would not include 10 "the shortly publish," just because we are now attaching 11 all th'e individual views. If we do want to publish more 12 later, we can. 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: All right. 14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: The important thing is 15 to have all th e vie ws, and I would prefer to have all 16 the views in the one here. 17 CHAIRMAN PALLAD'INO So we would vote now on 18 this order. , 19 COHNISSIONER GILINSKYa 9hich we plan to put 20 out early next week. 21 CHAIRHAN PALLADINO: Which we plan to put out 22.early next week. 23 All those in favor of approving the order will ( 24 indicate by raising hands. 25 (Show of hands.) ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGIN!A AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

39 i I (' 1 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD Aye. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Aye. .l 3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Opposed. l k 4 (Show of hands.) 5 COUMISSluMER GILINSKY You are not'in favor i 6 of putting out the order? 7 'CHAIRHAN PALLADINO I am not in favor of 8 putting an order that has this conclusion. 9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Given that you are 10 opposed to the decision, but this -- 11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: If I were to vote that 12 this represents the vill of the majority of the j l 13 Commission, I must agree that it represents the vill of ( 14 the majority of the Commission, so that the record is i 15 clear on that point. However, I don 't agree with 16 denying the exemption. 17 Is there anything further that should come 18 before us on this matter? 19 (No response.) 20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I thank you all, and we-21 stand adjourned. 22 (Whereupon, at 10:30 a.m., the Commission 23 adjourned'.) ( 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 k202) 554-2345

l ) NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION This is to certify '. hat the. attached proce.edings before the COMPISSION MIETING \\ in the tatter of: VOT ON THE GRANTING OF THE DOE REQUEST FOR EXEMPTION 'UNDER SECTION 50.12 DOE FOR SITE PREPARATION FOR CLINCH RIVER BREEDER REACTOR Date of Proc'eeding: 3-5-82 Docket Nu=ber: Place of Proceeding: Washington, D. C. were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the Coc=ission., Patricia A. Minson Official Reporter (Typed) e S t Official Reporter (Signature) I 1 J .}}

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