ML20033F983

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Transcript of 900322 Hearing in Miami,Fl.Pp 1-66
ML20033F983
Person / Time
Site: Turkey Point  
Issue date: 03/22/1990
From:
Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel
To:
References
CON-#290-10213 90-602-01-OLA-5, 90-602-1-OLA-5, OLA-5, NUDOCS 9004040198
Download: ML20033F983 (68)
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{{#Wiki_filter:.. Ji j i, I CR GM OFFICIALTRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS ~ n 1 i ' \\m l i L L. QtT1Cy. Nuclear Regualtory Commission Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Florida Power and Light Company i Titl@ Turkey Point Plant (Unit Nos. 3 and 4);~ Facility Operating Licenses Nos. DPR-31. DPR-41 .{ Docket No. 50-250-OLA-5, 50-251-OLA-5 ASLBP 90-602-01-OLA-5 l l \\ Miami, Florida 4 I Thursday, March 22, 1990 1 - 66 DATE: Pacts: .9 l t 9. o\\ 4 ANN RIUW& ASSOCIATES, LM ~ 1612 K St. N.W. Suite 300 g Mahington, D.C 20006 coo 4o4otos900327,o (202) 295-m FDR 490cy 050Og, T. m,, a': l,,,, c

g UNITED STATES OF AMERICA i' I [ NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD o e d! ]~ x - 1 3 ____...__x l In the Matter oft e 5 Docket Nos. 50-250-OLA-5 L FLORIDA POWER AND LIGHT 50-251-OLA-5 6 COMPANY 7 TURKEY POINT PLANT Technical Specifications (UNIT NOS. 3 AND 4)

Replacement FACILITY OPERATING LICENSES NOS. DPR-31, 9

DPR-41

ASLBP 90-602-01-OLA-5 10

_________________________x 11 U.S. District Courthouse 300 Northeast First Avenue 12 Central Courtroom Miami, Florida- ,3 ,m ( )

Thursday, s_,-

March 22, 1990 14 15 LIMITED APPEARANCE PROCEEDING 16 The above-entitled matter came on for 17 hearing, pursuant to notice, before: 18 Peter B. Bloch, Administrative Judge, Chair, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 20 Dr. George C. Anderson, Administrative Judge, L.' 21 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 22 Elizabeth B. Johnson, Administrative Judge, 23 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 24

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~ 25 O l ANN RTLEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

7 7 9' ~b c f .}, ,ti.' l 3 .v' 1 I NDEX l 2 I I, f 3 LIMITED APPEARANCE' PAGE 4 I Roberto Gonzalez-Blanco' 9 l 5 Robert Jensen 11 6 Leonard Spring 15 7 Robert Harris 19 ~ Peter Murray 22 . g. g Jane Brown 26 9 l Laura Coburn 39 10 l Joette Lorion 43 11 Bill Miller 60 12 13 14 i 15 16 17 . +. 18 19 I i 20 4 e.. ,,1 21 22 23 24 ) 25 l ANN RILEY fr ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

in 3 3 PROCE ED I NGS L ~ (7:00 p.m.) { i r ' 'y 2 i 3 JUDGE BLOCH: The hearing will please i 4 come to order. 5 Good evening. My name is Peter Bloch. 4 6 I am Chair of this proceeding which involves 7 technical specifications replacements for the e Florida Power and Light Company Turkey Point Plant 9 Units 1 and 2. 10 As Chair of this Board, it's my great 33 pleasure, with great respect, to welcome you all 12 wholeheartedly to this evening's meeting. 13 With me tonight are Dr.-George An3erson / \\ i / 14 on my right and Elizabeth Johnson on my left. j 15 Together we constitute the Licensing Board for this 16 proceeding. I'd like to say a few words to set the 37 context for what is happening this evening. is As members of the Licensing Board, we 19 20 are employees of the United States Nuclear 21 Regulatory Commission, and we are in an independent office which, to my knowledge, has never been 22 23 interfered with in any way politically with respect to its decisions. 24 Our responsibility is to hear licensing /^ 25 , \\.v ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

m i; L t i 4 f-1 matters such as this one. f. 2 We hear those matters pursuant to the l i O' 3 Constitution and laws of the Unitad States and the zegulations of the United States Nuclear' Regulatory 4 5 Commission. f f 6 One of those laws is the Atomic Energy { 7 Act of 1954 which, for the' purposes of my Board, a resolved the question of whether or not domestic 9 nuclear power is acceptable. to By law, it is acceptable. And it's our i . _11 responsibility to administer that law. 12 It is acceptable, however, only pursuant 13 to the statutes and to the regulations of the 14 United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission. l I 15 So our responsibility is to see that i 16 that statute and those regulations are faithfully 17 carried out, and that, therefore, the uses of 18 nuclear power that fall within our jurisdiction are is used safely and with respect for the environment, ,, Pursuant to those regulations. 20 21 This evening's meeting is an unusual 22 creature of the regulations of the United States 23 Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 24 At this meeting, the participants in the 25 case are banned from appearing. l I l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

q 5 1

Instead, people who are not 2

participants in the case are welcome to speak to i fj i a us about the subject matter of the amendment case 4 that we are hearing. j i 5 Sometimes in these proceedings important 6 matters do come forth, t 7 I remember that in the Comanche Peak j 8 Nuclear Power Plant case, for example, the i 9 principal witness for the intervenors first 10 appeared in the case in a limited appearance e 11 session. 12 He was an engineer and he spoke about 13 serious problems having to do immediately with the t \\ (_,/ 14 case. i 15 The one purpose of these proceedings is 16 to allow people who might have real knowledge to 17 come forward and be known. 18 Another purpose is for people to express 19 their opinions about. the case. 20 Now, I know that many people who come 21 forth want to express their opinions about nuclear 22 Power in general, about the disposal of nuclear 23 wastes, about the fiends who run the Nuclear 24 Regulatory Commission, maybe about the evil that l ) 25 the Board is about to do. j ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 t

l 6 We'll hear all of

that, but our 1

l 2 jurisdiction is limited to the particular l g 3 proceeding before us, so I particularly want to 4 encourage people to stay on target with respect to t, commenting on the amendment case that's before us. 6 If it turns out that you do make 7 discussion before us that doesn't seem appropriate a to this case, I will listen, and at the end of the 9 remarks I may remark about where an avenue of 10 recourse might be for the remarks that were made. 11 I could juJt sit here and pretend that I 12 had some jurisdiction over it, but I prefer not to 13 engage in that kind of pretense. 14 This evening we have a limited number of F 15 people i'ho filed priority appearance statements. 16 Judging by the number of people in the 17 audience, there will be no problem having anyone is who wants to make a limited appearance statement 19 make that statement. The people with priority are Joette-20 21 L' orion, Michael Burtt, and Jane Brown, which looked I 22 like a "P" to me for a second. l 23 I'd like to encourage people when they 24 come forward to speak for no more than ten minutes, 25 and also that they very clearly identify themselves (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. ANN RILEY 293-3950 l

1 for the record. 2 If they want, they can give a business 3 card to the Reporter who's before me on the left 4 who's making a record of everytning that's said. 5 If not, please not only say your name, 6 but spell it. 7 or if you prefer to remain anonymous, e say that, because it's not necessary that anyone e identify themself tonight if they prefer not to. 3o So if any of the three people who I is announced with priority would like to come forward, ,2 there's no necessary order, just be considerate of 33 the others,.nd come forward if you feel that it's 14 your time to speak now. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE BLOCH:

Well, let me ask a 17 different question:

38 Are any of the following three people 39 here? If you are, please raise your hand. to Josette Lorion, are you here? I 21 MS. LORION: My name is Joette Lorion, 22 and my statement tonight will not be the subject 23 matter of these proceedings. 24 JUDGE BLOCH: Okay, if you want to make 25 that statement, you cant I just hope that you ^"""2L&13189SHIS- ^ =-

8 1 understood what I said, and you'd be welcome to I 2 come forward to make that statement. 3 COURT REPORTER: I can't hear her. I 4 JUDGE BLOCH: Ms. Lorion said that her f 5 statement will not be about this particular i 6 Proceeding. 7 She wants to make a general statement, j e and I welcomed her to do that, t 9 Would you like to come forward now? i 10 MS. LORION: I was hoping not to go 11 first. 12 JUDGE BLOCH: Well, wait for second. 53 Maybe we can manage that for you. 14 Is Michael Burtt here? 15 (No response.) j h 30 JUDGE BLOCH: Michael Burtt has not l 37 raised his hand. I assume he's not here. i 38 Is Jane Bronn here? 19 (No esponse.) 20 JUDGE BLOCH: Jane Brown does not raise 4 i 21 her hand. i 22 MS. LORION: Then I win by default. 23 JUDGE BLOCH: Not necessarily, because 24 you don't want to go first. 25 Is there anyone who would like to go Ag S, LTD. ANN RIL

9 1 first? I 2 Please come forward and state your name 3 for the record. 4 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF ROBERTO + 5 GONZALEZ-BLANCO. 6 MR. GONZALEZ-BLANCO: My name is 7 Roberto -- 8 JUDGE BLOCH: There's a podium with a 9 microphone. 10 MR. GONZALEZ-BLANCO: Sorry. 11 My name is Roberto Gonzalez-Blanco, and f 12 I have a business card that I can leave with the l 13 secretary. l ~~ 14 I hold the position of Vice Chairman of 15 the Board and Chief Financial Officer of the 16 Republic National Bank of Miami, and I deal in the I l I 17 business of buying and selling securities for our l 18 bank for about twenty years. is Over that course of time, we have ' invested in bonds issued for the purpose of 20 21 building and financing nuclear plants all over the t 22 country. 23 And I personally analyze the financial 24 information and the purpose and service to the ~/N 25 communities. k' O )

s 10 t And we have invested millions of a dollars, and we have never had any bad experience 3 in that type of investment. 4 But furthermore, we look to that type of 5 community involvement to help our country to 6 provide adequate service within the law, as you 7 stated before, and taking all the precautions to e protect the environment. 9 But nevertheless, our country has to to remain competitive in the global economy, and one it way is to protect the environment, but the other 12 way, we have to protect the financial soundness and 13 the strong dollar of our country in the 34 competitive world in which we live where other 35 countries have followed similar technological 36 advances to produce energy, and we find ourselves 17 in a disadvantage point if we do not pursue the 38 nuclear type of energy production. 39 Otherwise, we will continue to remain 20 dependent upon foreigners to provide the energy 21 that we need for our country and our future. 22 So I strongly are in favor of this 23 nuclear energy development, and within, like I 24 said before, the protection to the environment, but 25 at the same time, for the protection of our j } ANN RIL Y & ASSOCIATES, LTD. 202 293-3950

n l 11 i financial strength. -) 2 That's my statement. 3 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you, t 4 Is there someone else who would like to 5 come forward now? 6 Please, sir. 7 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF ROBERT 8 JENSEN. 9 MR. JENSEN: My name is Bob Jensen. I'm 10 President of the Greater Homestead /Plorida City 35 Chamber of Commerce, and we're the two communities 12 closest to Turkey Point. 33 I'm a retired naval officer, and I'm 14 involved in cultural affairs and historic 15 preservation at the county level. 3s I've lived in Homestead nearly twelve 37 years now. I live fairly close to Turkey Point. is In fact, a speaker for the warning is system is adjacent to my backyard, so I'm very 20 aware of Turkey Point. t 21 Our community lies between two national 22 parks. The only community in the United States to 23 make that claim. 24 We're very interested in the ^ 25 environment. And, in fact, the national parks jV} ^"" "I M ^1gicIH58, '" o - e

( 1 12 i exist as a result of a lot of community activism in a the 1930's and 1940's. 3 Our communities, the joint communities, 4 are now beginning to reach their potential. 5 The Southern Command which is in Panama 6 now is giving very serious consideration to i 7 relocating to Homestead Air Force Base; again, very e near Turkey Point. 9 All of the major building that's taking io place in our community is taking place out toward I is Turkey Point, east of U.S. 1. 12 In fact, I contacted the firm which is 1 13 doing a planned unit development of 6,000 homes for 14 retired adults and asked what impact the presence 15 of Turkey Point had had on sales. He said in the i is years that he'd been involved, he was only aware of 37 maybe one or two lost sales because of its t 3e presence. 19 And I asked him how his potential i 20 scustomers are aware of it, and he said it's 'ff' 21 Adisclosed in all of their promotional materials l i 22 because they market it all over the United States. 23 I said that our communities are j l 24 beginning to reach their development. There's a 25 side of it that we are not too proud of, and that LTD. 0g)ASgOCIATES, ANN RIL 2 3-3950

i 13 i is that we have a lot of underemployed people, a j 2 lot of residents. A lot of them are new residents -l 3 in the United States from Latin America. L 4 And so we're looking to provide jobs, 6 better

jobs, that are now available.

We're 6 building a community college campus, an urban 7 campus, which is very innovative; a new baseball e stadium for major league spring trainings on and on 9 and on. 30 So lots of great things are happening in it our community, and

r. hey're happening out toward 12 Turkey Point.

13 In addition to all those things, there's ( '\\) 34 an amphitheater and a new golf course. 15 I've lived in the community for twelve 16 years; been involved in the business community for 17 eight of those years. 38 I have never heard a business person or is another resident express concern over our presence, 20 the closeness of Turkey Point. 21 ( In fact, the concern that I hear now is 22 that not having Turkey Point will certainly have a 23 bad effect upon our two communities. 24 And again, I want to stress that I'm (7 25 out in the public constantly. I'm a spokesman for ] \\ v LTD. ANNRILfYI) ASSOCIATES, 20 293-3950

i I 14 i the Chamber of Commerce as President. 2 When people have concerns and gripes, 3 I'm oftentimes the first to hear those, and I have 4 not heard them. s But what I have heard is that with the i 6 new stress on concurroney, there's a necessity to 7 have roads, to have infrastructure, to have water, s clean water, pure water, and to have energy for our o community to progresc. So And so the continued availability of the is power generated by the nuclear capabilities of 12 Turkey Point are an extreme concern to our business 13 community, and I believe to a good percentage of 14 folks who live, raise their families, in our is community, and look to a better way of life here in is the future. 17 I want to emphasize again that we're a 3e community that fights to retain its quality of 19 life. 20 We're in between two national parks. 21 Our tourism industry is almost one hundred percent 22 dependent upon those two national parks, and so we 23 want the continued clean environment that we have. 24 And we realize that having the nuclear 2s energy generating capability has helped us ANN RIL

AggS, LTD.

i

15 1 maintain that environment we're so proud of. 2 So again, as you make your decisions, 3 please think of those of us who live closect, who 4 should be the most concerned about safety, and 5 whose futures are going to be affacted by decisions 6 that you make. 7 Thank-you. ~ 8 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. 9 MR. GONZALEZ-BLANCO: (Inaudible; 10 speaking from back of courtroom.) 11 JUDGE BLOCH: The first person that ,a spoke, your name again, please, sir? 13 MR. GONZALEZ-BLANCO: Robert Gonzalez-u Blanco. 15 JUDGE BLOCH: Roberto Gonzalez-Blanco 16 has a written statement for the record from the 17 Chairman of his bank, and we can receive it and 38 bind it in. We can bind it in the record at this ig point. 20 Yes, sir? 21 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF LEONARD 22 SPRING. 23 MR. SPRING: Mr. Chairman and Committee, 24 my name is Leonard Spring, and you might say that I ge/ probably might have a

02) hhNbh$h' l

L U tw tus.1 b we*,eidon aue March 22, 1990 Atematic Safety Licensing Bcard Federal Ccurthcuse Bldg. 300 N.E. Ist Ave. Miami, yL Gentlement The undersigned Dr. Luis J. Betifc11. Chairman cf the Board of The Rept.blic National Bank of Miami, has been related with energy issues first in g cil producing activities in Cuba before ecming to the United and later through my banking activities. It has always been a concern of mine the overall picture of energy supply particularly in The United States. The present amounts of oil imports put this country in a situation of dependancy frem foreign countries that could endanger the stability, ecenen/, and security of The United States. 'It is alarming hev groups that are vell intended but nct vell informed constantly oppose most of the alternatives that can help the energy supply situation. I personally consider nuclear energy to be a clean and safe source of energy which risks has been so exagerated to the point of almost paralyzing the expansion of nuclear energy in U.S.A. Experience has shevn that the perfctmance of nuclear pcVer plants has been excellent without causing any harm to cur population.

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1 o CW Lus J.b.otito.ll .w to If ve vant to maintain and inprove cur standard of living, ant strenghten the ectncmie development cf Our ecuntry ve must help to produce viable energy alternatives, therefcre I encourage the Atemic Safety Licensing Scard te surpcrt the centinuing operattens of nuclear plants in ne United States and particularly Turkey Point in Dade County. Sincerely, r +- Dr. Luis 7. Bctifoll Cpairman of The Board /IJB O l fgpl4(Q @l6 dMio% CN W 42rc W Mon Tcoo 3306 MMM4

16 1 JUDGE BLOCH: Just a second. How should 2 the Reporter spell -- L' 3 MR. SPRING: (Spelling) S-p-r-i-n-9 i 4 I'm one of the four seasons. 5 JUDGE BLOCH: I thought Spring was easy, a 6 but Lyndon I wasn't sure of. 7 MR. SPRING: Leonard.

Leonard, e

(spelling) L-e-o-n-a-r-d. 9 I don't know if I have a card here or 10 not. Si JUDGE BLOCH: That's okay. We have it 32 now. 33 MR. SPRING: All right, sir. ( '\\ i ,/ 14 You might consider me a special 15 interest. However, I think that, for the record, 16 I'd like to say what I have to say. 37 I've been a resident of Dade County 38 since 1929, so you can see I've been around a long in time. 20 And I am employed by FP&L for forty-four L 21 years. I'm also President of the International 22 Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, Local Union 359, 23 and we're part of the AFL-CIO. 24 I represent approximately 4,000 400; [~'N; 25 I beg your pardon

400, between 400 and 500 O

ANN RILEY (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. 293-3950 L

l 17 l 1 employees at Turkey Point Nuclear and Turkey Point l i 2 Fossil Plant. \\ l 3 I've been President of the I.B.E.W. 4 Local 359 for going on twenty-five years. I've j' 5 been an officer for forty-four years. .o 6 So I am greatly concerned, both as a 7 citizen of Dade County and also representing those e 400 and 500 employees that work at Turkey Point 9

site, to I have been involved in the safety of 13 the employees at Turkey Point.

I'm head of the 12 safety part of the Union. 13 We have a joint safety program, and I'm i -s 14 head of the joint safety program for Dade County. 35 As a

citizen, we recently had an 16 occasion to have some bad weather, some real cold t

17 bad weather. 18 I remember many years ago we had snow 19 in Miami too. 20 As a result of that, a lot of people who 21 are elderly people in need of electrical energy, 22 some of them ha-to do without. 23 In my estimation, over my entire 24 experience in the electrical field, I think the 'T ts only salvation to the clean air is nuclear power. x h0$) hhhh9$h'

18 1 You can check the safety records. I 2 don't have them here with me. I didn't know what 3 kind of a public hearing this was going to be this 4 evening. I was just informed of it this afternoon. 5 But I'm looking out for the best 6 interest of the employees and also the consumer of 7 Dade County. 8 If we had any more of this type of 9 weather, we do not have the generating capacity to to take care of it. A lot of people will suffer. 11 Florida is one of the fastest growing 12 states in the nation. In fact, it is the fastest 13 growing state in the nation, and we've got to have 14 future commitments from Florida Power and Light is through building plants to take care of the energy 16 of these people. 17 And I hope this Commission gives that 38 full consideration. So I'm sure you're well aware of the cold 20 spell that we had just recontly during 21 Christmastime when a lot of people were out without 22 energy, electrical energy, because the Florida 23 Power and Light had to cut them off to preserve the 24 whole system. 25 If the whole system has cascaded, nobody -wmw-

i 19 i i would be with power. 2 My primary reason for getting up here s l ) 3 though, I'll have to admit, is to protect the 4 interest of those 400 or 500 employees at riorida 5 Power and Light Turkey Point Plant who are members i 6 of my Union who feel that it's a safe place to work l 7 and are dedicated people, well trained, and they [ 8 look after each other in the area of safety, i 9 So I hope you'll give this all to consideration when you make your decisions. 11 And I thank you for the opportunity to 12 say a few words. 33 JUDGE BLOCH Thank-you, sir. 7-( ) 34 LIMITED APPEARANCd STATEMENT OF ROBERT v 15 HARRIS. 16 MR. HARRIS: Mr. Chairman, members of 17 the Board, my name is Robert H a r.T i s. I'm the 38 Chairman-elect of Vision Council, Incorporated, of 39 South Dade. ) 20 I'm a civil engineer. I was born in 21 Dade County and have lived here all my life. 22 Vision Council is an organization of 23 over a hus; ired businesses that primarily exist in 24 the South Dade area, both large and small. ,G 25 Our area of focus is south of Eureka i l v ANN RIL LTD. i

AggS,

20 s Drive, Southwest 184th Street. 1 2 All of the business and community 3 leaders down there have formed this organization 4 that works in concert with both the Chamber of s Commerce and Beacon Council, which is a publicly 6 funded economic development group here in Dade ,j 7 County. .I e Vision Council is an offshoot, to some 9 extent, of Beacon Council, and serves the role of to economic developers or economic development group it for South Dade. 12 What I want to talk about was the I 13 perception of the business community of what's out 14 there at Turkey Point. is I think that Florida Power and Light has j i 16 been a good corporate citizen in South Dade. l 37 Frequently, their executives have 38 appeared before organizations like the Chamber, 39 like Vision Council, like the Rotary Clubs and the 20 service clubs in South Dade, explaining all of the i 21 safety procedures that are in place and functioning 'l 22 at Turkey Point. 23 I would say as a spokesman for the 24 business community that I don't know of anyone that 25 has the perception of Turkey Point being another ANNRILEYI) ASSOCIATES, LTD. (20 293-3950 1 1

21 1 Chernobyl or Three-Mile Island. 2 Florida Power and Light has the type of 3 safety procedures in place that's far and away 4 different from what happened in those instances. 5 It's really a low-cost way of producing 6 power, and it has a U.S. safety record that is y really better than oil and coal-fired plants in e some ways. And

those, of
course, are the 9

alternatives we're faced with today. io Emissions from those coal and oil-fired 33 plants are known to cause respiratory diseases: 12 they're known to cause acid rain, so any type of 33 power source that we have has its risks there's no 34 question about that. 15 But our South Dade business community is 16 very much supportive of the Florida Power and Light 37 operation at Turkey Point, and we would like to see 38 it continue and continue to provide us with a safe, 39 cheap way of producing power. 20 Thank-you. 1 21 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. 22 Yes, sir? 23 Before you begin, I'd like to give my 24 apologies to those who have spoken so far in 25 assuming what their views might have been, but this AMNRILfYh) ASSOCIATES, LTD. 20 293-3950 l

L l 22 5 has so far been a different public appearance 2 session than I'm used to seeing. Thank-you. } 3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF PETER 4 MURRAY. l 5 MR. MURRAY: Good evening, Mr. Chairman. 6 My name is Peter Murray. I'm Director of Nuclear l 7 Programs in the Westinghouse Washington office. 8 And I wanted to take this opportunity of i 9 outlining for you and the members of the Board our 10 recent assessments of the status of nuclear power r si worldwide and particularly the environmental 12 advantages, together with some of the steps we are 13 taking. 14 The development of nuclear power has is been remarkably successful worldwide, i 16 Currently, there are 434 nuclear power 17 plants operating safely and reliably in twenty-five 3e countries. 19 In approximately half of these twenty-20 five countries, they derive more than twenty-five 21 Percent of their electricity from nuclear power. 22 And there are many examples of the 23 successes. France is now producing seventy percent 24 of its electricity from nuclear power. It has got 25 itself out of bondage to the Mideast oil situation, I I ;, 6 LTD. (202) ASSOCIATES, ANN RILEY 293-3950

23 5 and we're now getting data on the environmental 2 advantages fro's those nuclear power plants in ) 3 France and in other nations. 4 In the United States we have currently 5 112 nuclear power plants operating in thirty-three i 6 states, and when one looks at the total electricity o 7 distribution picture, one finds that nearly every e American at some point during the year is deriving 9 the benefits of electricity from nuclear power, 10 Now, the second point that has emerged it from our assessment is that American technology is 12 responsible for the successful worldwide 33 development of nuclear power. () 14 Of these 434 plants, for example, about 15 200 of them are based on our Westinghouse 16 pressurized water reactor technology. 17 The third point is from our assessments 38 is it is becoming very clear as to the is environmental advantages of nuclear power. 20 The fifty-four plants in France have 21 avoided over the past ten years SO2 emissions from 22 the normal fossil-fired plants, and particulate 23 emissions have also been reduced by about ninety 24 percent. t f 25 The 112 plants in the U.S. have avoided G r ANNRILEYh) ASSOCIATES, LTD. (20 293-3950 P

.e s 24 i five million tons per year of SO2 emissions into 2 the atmosphere, and when one looks at the goals of { } 3 the Clean Air Act now being debated in Washington, 4 the goal is to reduce SO2 emissions by ten million s tons a year by the year 2005. 6 So one can see the relevance of nuclear 7 power in the development of clean air policies. 8 Similar situations apply to the CO2 9 situations. Worldwide last year the use of nuclear to Power avoided the emission of about 1.4 billion 11 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. 12 The Toronto Conference of a few years 33 ago suggested a goal of reducing CO2 emissions by I 34 about four billion tons a year by the year 2010, so ,s again one can see the relevance a rid the advantages 16 of nuclear power. 17

Now, in the United States, we've had 38 problems.

Five years ago we assessed what needed 19 to be done to start to restore nuclear power. We 20 had problems with the last round of nuclear power l P ants. 21 22 And we have developed what we describe 23 as the AP600 approach. The AP600 is a 600 megawatt l P ant. 24 25 We have developed the applicatien of 0g) ASSOCIATES, LTD. ANN RIL 293-3950

~ n 25 t passive safety systems and passive containment ( r 2{ cooling systems so that we can automatically cool 3 the core and the containment by gravity and 4' incident conditions. We furthermore looked at the problems in 6 the utility industry. Reducing uncertainty in cost and schedule is one of the key aspects of our plan, e se with our partners, Avondale Shipyards of New 9 Orleans, we've been developing a modular approach to to the construction of the components assembling 3, the components in the factory and then sending them 12 to the field and avoiding a good deal of the 13 assembly in the field. 34 We're proceeding with this AP600 is development. We were recently awarded a 50 tiillion 16 cost shared contract from DOE to work with thtt NRC 17 in the design certification of the design of the se AP600. sg We're also taking steps to deal in 20 Parallel with other aspects of its development so 2t that we can obtain commitments about the end of '94 22 and obtain the benefits and have some plants on 23 line by the end of the decade. 24 Thank-you very much, Mr. Chairman. 25 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you, Mr. Murray. LTD. (20I) ASSOCIATES, ANN RILEY 293-3950

4.. t 26 i If there is anyone else who would like 2 to speak, please approach the podium. 3 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF JANE l t 4 BROWN. 5 MS. BROWNS Good evening. 6 JUDGE BLOCH: Good evening. t 7 MS. BROWN: My name is Jane Brown, and ( e I've been a Florida resident for thirty years. j g I've been oming to this state for more 10 years than that, first as a visitor, but I have l 31 been a resident for the past thirty years. 12 And I'm speaking today as a citizen of l 13 Florida and South Florida particularly and as an i 14 activist. 15 And I'm here tonight to tell you that { 16 representing

hundreds, thousands of o t t' a r 17 environmentalists, activists, and opponents of 38 nuclear power that we're here to ask you to close t

19 the Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant and 20 immediately begin to phase in solar energy, 21 alternative, renewable, safe energy systems; to 22. make these available for public use, and also to 23 encourage development of coal-fired plants that are 24 environmentally safe; that this technology is 25 available. A"""IN[02) hh

27 1 I hesitated to come here tonight 2 probably for the reason why many other opponents of /; 3 nuclear power did not come tonight and will not i' 4 speak tonight. 5 The main reason being that we have been o 6 speaking out for the past ten years about the 7 realities and the dangers of nuclear power that l e affect us at present day and will be affecting us e for hundreds of years to come, and we have not to been listened to. 11 And so I hesitated to come tonight 12 because I felt it's probably just another waste of 13 time, and yet I was encouraged to come at least and / i () 14 speaks that this was a public hearing that we were 15 being granted, I understood, and I think that's 16 kind of a rare thing also to gain a public hearing 17 on this subject. is The main points you might have heard is before that I'm going to make I will say again 20 tonight: 1 21 That is, number one, that experts 22 disagree as to what acceptable levels of radiation 23 are. 24 You can have any number of people, ['^] 25 Particularly scientists who have been hired by the V Aun aIIpy,p agggcgg gs, m.

e, 28 ( 1 industry, to testify that nuclear power is safe 2 that it's cost effective; and anything else that 3 you want to hear. f 4 Most often, people testifying in that i L 5 manner are involved in the industry and benefit 6 from the industry monetarily. 7 Their jobs are at stake just as yours ~ e are involved in the industry. g And most often, the scientists who io disagree with them and say that it's not safe and l 11 it's not worth the risk usually are not involved 12 in the industry; they don't make a big living doing 13 this. In fact, they've often left higher paying 14 jobs in the industry to speak out and speak their 15 conscience. [ 16 One thing that they all agree on, that 17 most people agree on, is that radiation such as i se that that is emitted by a nuclear power plant and is from the waste that is generated by nuclear power l 'P ants causes cancer. 2c i 21 There are many valid scientific studies 22 also showing that the cancer rates around nuclear 23 faciltties are higher, much higher, than what the 24 normal rate should be. 25 To say that there have been no nuclear LTD. Ag ]S, ANN RIL

(i 29 1 victims from nuclear power is a lie. There have 2 been many victims. ) L j 3 There have been deaths, and these have 4 been documented. 5 Miners that mine uranium have been 6 injured; eventually will be fatal; their injuries o 7 will be fatal. 8 Residents around the plant are exposed 9 to releases of radiation. 10 We know there have been releases of 11 radiation from the Turkey Point Plant. 12 There was another accident recently, 13 February, last month. / \\ Q ,4 Thousands of gallons of radioactive is cooling water from the spent fuel ponds was leaked. 16 This is some of the most highly 17 radioactive. is Where does that water go? 19 A few years ago, several thousand 20 gallons of radioactive water were leaked from the L 21 St. Lucie Plant, Florida Power and Light St. Lucie 22 Plant, up the coast because a valve was left open, 23 and it wasn't detected until these thousands of 24 gallons had leaked into the community, into ,O) 25 farmland. (v ANN RIL

AggS, LTD.

30 1 So we know that there are releases of 2 radiation that we're not even told about from the 3 Turkey Point Plant. He're not officially told. We 4 know this happens. l 5 There is still no solution to the 6 nuclear Waste problem, so when I hear these 7 9entlemen talking about Continuing With nuclear e power, I say that it's absolutely crazy and beyond 9 being crazy, it's criminal, because you're talking 30 about damage to the environment for thousands, it thousands of years, that will be irreversible. 12 You're talking about contamination of 33 the food chain. You're talking about thousands I I 14 more cancer deaths. 15 I'm here tonight, and I'm speaking on 16 behalf of hundreds of other people who won't even 17 bother to speak with you because they feel it's 38 basically a joke. There's no reaching you people, 39 There's no reaching the industry; that it's out of 20 control. That you're all just in the same boat 21 together, and you don't care about people. t 22 Maybe you're misinformed. I don't know. 23 I can't imagine that you're misinformed. 24 I can only imagine that you have a I 25 Vested interest. 202) kW'

i 31 1 And I'm speaking on behalf of these l P80P e to say please stop this nuclear madness. 2 3 Do you know what you're doing? Do you 4 know the contaminations? Do you know about the 5 genetic damage that's caused by radiation? 6 Yes, there's radiation from the sun. 7 There's radiation from this source and that source. s We don't need the environment cannot tolerate 9 any extra radiation. We don't need it. It's to damaging. 11 You're talking about affecting the 12 genetic codes of all of life for hundreds and 13 hundreds of years to come. That's a fact. 34 You're talking about many more cancer 15 deaths. You're talking about more leukemia in 16 children. You're talking about more tumors. 17 When somebody hears somebody gets 38 cancer; what is it, one out of four people, one out 39 of three, one out of four people gets cancer; when 20 someone close to you has cancer and you feel the 21 Pain of that, and someone close to you dies of 22 cancer. 23 Now, there are many causes of cancer. 24 There are many causes. There are many other 25 pollutants besides nuclear power plants. LTD. ANN RILEY (20I) ASSOCIATES, 293-3950

L i 32 i But the point is is that there are 2 alternatives to nuclear power plants, and we need 3 to start thinking about the future and the safety 4 of us, our children, and our planet. And we've got 5 to mean business about it real soon. 6 You're talking about more birth defects 7 in children. And anybody here talking in favor of a nuclear power, you will be responsible. You will 9 be held responsible in one way or another, one io level or another, somehow, for those birth defects 31 in children and those increased cancers and those 12 increased deaths. 13 There are alternatives. Why don't you 14 start putting the money into the alternative? Get is out of the damned killing business. Get out of the 16 business of contaminating people and get in the 17 business in favor of health and safety for people. is Stop kidding yourselves. 19 You don't kid us. You're not fooling 20 us. We're not fooled when you reclassify: when the 21 Nuclear Regulatory Commission reclassifies what is 22 an acceptable level of radiation. 23 You know, because one level, that wasn't 24 okay. You can just change the rules. You change 25 the standards almost, you know, at whim. l I ANNRILEYk) ASSOCIATES, LTD. (20 293-3950

33 1 If the waste is getting packed in too 2 densely in a spent fuel pond, so you just change 3 the rule. Like that's going to make it safer. 4 Well, we're not fooled by that and no 5 one I know is fooled by that. 6 And we're not fooled when you won't 7 allow public hearings. You don't allow public e input on this. In the past, that's happened. 9 You know, accidents happen. 10 That's basically all I came to say 11 today. I don't think you will do anything 12 different than you've done in the past. 13 I think the industry is just, you know, 14 I mean, it's a joke really. It's really almost a 15 joke for me to come here and speak, but I know that 16 you -- I realize that you recognize the strength of 17 my Convictions and that, you know, we' fought for 18 ten years that there will be no more nuclear power 19 plants built, and all those orders were cancelled. 20 You know, we put the industry on notice 21 tonight. Don't think about it. Don't try it 22 because you haven't seen anything yet. 23 We'll just start up all over again just 24 like before because now the environmental movement 25 in this country is stronger than ever before and ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

w I i ;, 34 I., 1 it's growing all the time. 2 So we're ready for you. We're ready for i i 3 the second round; if that's what you want to do, L i 4 you know, we're ready. 5 It will be over our bodies that it is j 6 stopped again. And if it continues, it's over all y of our bodies that it continues. We're all in the 8 same boat together when it comes to cur 11fe and t s 9 the safety of the planet. I J 3o That's basically w'n a t I came here to 11 say tonight. Just to say that we hold you 12 responsible. 13 JUDGE BLOCH: Could you wait for just a 14 moment? I'd like to make a brief statement, and I 15 want to give you a chance to respond. 16 MS. BROWN: Yes. 1 17 JUDGE BLOCH: What I've noticed is that i is you're obviously very impassioned about what you ~ 39 say, and I know you represent a lot of other people 20 who think similarly to you. 21 I also heard before you Mr. Murray who 22 also represents a point of view that's held by a a. 23 number of people. It's not an isolated point of 24 View. 25 And I think he's also dedicated to what l I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 l

F i l 35 1 he sees as the future of the planet. 2 What I'd like to say to both of ycu is f a what I said at the beginning, which you weren't t 4 here to hear, which is that we have a limited I i t I 5 jurisdiction here and we serve the Government of l 6 the United States. 7 We cannot in any way discontinue the ( i a Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant. 9 If we approve the change in technical 10 specifications, there will be new ways that things 1i are done at Turkey Point. 12 If we disapprove them, they'll be the 13 old ways that they were done at Turkey Point. r3 t ( ) 14 The license is not at stake. s 15 Similarly, we are neither promoters nor is destroyers of nuclear power. We are appliers of 17 the regulations that were passed by our government, 18 so I can't do what you're asking me to do and 19 neither can the Board. 20 That is something that has to be 21 addressed to Congress. It has to be addressed to 22 the people who can change the laws. 23 It could be addressed to the 24 Commissioners of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 25 MS. BROWN: I believe that your Board is [] 1 / 4 L k.d ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

i 36 l 1 part of the NRC and that the NRC does set nuclear 2 policy. [ 3 JUDGE BLOCH: Yes, but we don't. We 4 serve the Commission and we do not make policy. i s We apply it in the context of licensing 6 cases. 7 MS. BROWN: Right, but you have input to [ s the NRC on these issues; is that true? g JUDGE BLOCH: We're not political, no. 10 MS. BROWN: I'm not asking if you're 11 political. I said you have input. 12 In other words, you come and make 13 recommendations or whatever based on -- 14 JUDGE BLOCH: We decide the cases, and l I 15 if we want to act as citizens and give our views to 16 the Commission as citizen, we can also do that, but 17 we're only citizens. 18 MS. BROWN: Where do you draw the line 1 19 as a Commissioner? In other words, as a Commissioner, what 20 21 do you base your decision on? 22 JUDGE BLOCH: I'm not a Commissioner. 23 MS. BROWN As a Board member. 24 JUDGE BLOCH: On the record before me; 25 on the official facts put in the record and the l l ANN RILEY LTD. (202) ASSOCIATES, 293-3950

V \\ l' 37 1 arguments placed before me, the law, and the regulations. That's my job. 7 ') 2 i' ) l 3 I'm like a judge in a federal court ? 4 under the statutes of the United States. I can't 5 change the statutes. 6 MS. BROWN: Do you hear expert witnesses 7 from both sides of an issue? r 8 JUDGE BLOCH: Sure, and we weigh the 9 evidence. 10 MS. BROWN: Right. That's all I'm 11 asking that you do, is that you try to be objective 12 and that you encourage expert witnesses from both I've 13 sides and not, you know, keep witnesses out ) 14 heard that's happened before too -- and just really t 15 to study it on your own as a human being, whatever is your position is, you know. 17 I mean, you know, I've studied it for 18 years. I've listened to both sides too. 19 Why is it that one person comes up with 20 one thing and someone else with another? 21 JUDGE BLOCH: That is interesting, isn't 22 it? 23 MS. BROWN: I find it ironic myself. 24 In any case, that's my position that, 25 you know, if there's any doubt in people's mind . [~'] l ,l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

) 38 j 1 about the safety of it, I'd rather err on a 2 conservative side because the risks are much too I 3 great and there are safe alternatives. This has 4 been demonstrated. J 5 I mean, when the Turkey Point Plant, 6 it's off line more than it's on line, we do pretty 1 7 well without it. 8 JUDGE BLOCH: If you could wrap up in a 9 minute now. 10 MS. BROWN: I'm responding to you. I 11 Was done. 12 JUDGE BLOCH: I knew that, but you can 13 continue responding for a long time, and if you I I 14 want to respond for another minute, you may. 15 MS. BROWN: Thank-you. 16 .There are alternatives, and it's really 17 time that Turkey Point, particularly, being one of 18 the most dangerous plants in the country still -- I 19 mean, the NRC, you know, can shut it down in a 20 minute and has been on the edge of doing that, and 21 it's really very, very strange that it hasn't 22 happened because it is a very dangerous plant. 23 It's just not worth the risks, and it 24 does leak radiation now into the environment, so we 25 hold the NRC responsible for that, and you're part l l ANN RILEY & ASSOChA$ES, LTD. (202) 293-9 0

[ 39 1 of the NRC, so I'm speaking tonight in that regard. f,) 2 Thank-you. ~s 3 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. 4 Welcome. l LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF LAURA o COBURN. 7 MS. COBURN: Thank-you. 8 I want to start out ny giving you my 9 name and then thanking you. 10 My name is Laura Coburn. I'm a business 11 consultant, and I have no business with FPL. 12 I want to thank you for your courtesy 13 and your patience. My remarks are general-('D ( / 14 statements as well and not to the technical i is specifications that you all will be dealing with. 16 I want to state also that my only 17 connection with Florida Power and Light is that 38 five years ago I was employed by the company in ig the energy conservation department, and because of 20 my personal convictions when I joined the company, t 21 I felt I had to resolve for myself the issue of. 22 nuclear power and nuclear safety; otherwise, I 23 could not work for that kind of a company. 24 So I'm not presenting myself as an [')s 25 expert, but as someone who took the time to take a \\\\s ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 i

1 i (. 40 l 1 look at both sides of the issue because I came from 2 the medium and I know how we looked at it before. 3 So my intent really is to speak as a 4 private citizen here today. I have a home within 5 ten miles of Turkey Point. My parents live within i 6 ten miles of Turkey Point, so that means we're part l 7 of that early warning system. N 8 And I also am representing the f 9 viewpoints of two other ladies that I bothered to 10 talk with about this; one who felt that she didn' 11 want to bring herself to the attention of zealots 12 and another one who felt that her evenings were i 13 better spent with her six-month-old son. I I~ 14 So we all just wanted to let you know 15 that we speak generally in support of nuclear 16 energy as part of an essential mix and don't 17 believe necessarily in depleting other fuels that is could be used for better purposes; whether it's for 19 drugs to heal mankind or things that are just more 20 - important than generating electricity if you have a 21 better alternative. 22 We don't see that there's an either/or 23 choice between solar or hydroelectric or any other 24 kind of technology for producing energy. 25 I know that some folks sometimes sayl l l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

1 1: 41 1 .that we need to do one thing instead of nuclear 2 energy, and we bolieve in a balance. 3 We believe in a balance all over the 4

point, a

balance between people

needs, 5

environmental needs, technology needs, business 6 needs, community needs, and I hope that my view 7 here will be somewhat balanced. e We feel that nuclear energy is part of, 9 an important part of national security. Having 10 gone through the Arab Oil Embargo, we know what it other countries can do to us if we become too 12 dependent on any one source. 13 We're strong environmental activists in 14 terms of contributing to Sierra Club, World 15 Wildlife Fund, Nature Conservancy. 16 Nevertheless, we find nuclear energy a 17 relatively, and I speak relatively, benign is environmentally compared to some of the other i ig technologies that we are pursuing or could be 20 Pursuing, and for that we appreciate it. l 21 As regards safety, both women with 22 children and myself as an aunt who adores her i 23 nieces, we are aware of the track record of nuclear i 24 Power, c omnie r c ial nuclear power, in the United 25 States and find that acceptable compared to other (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. ANN RILEY 293-3950 l

i 42 1 technologies, and we appreciate the relative 2 safety. We understand that life comes with risks. I I 3 We know that getting in and out of the 4 bathtub or even getting in and out of our cars, as 5 we strap our children into child safety seats and 6 go out there on the roads with all the rest of the 7 crazies. ~ 8 There's another point about nuclear 9 energy and that is affordability. For those of us 10 who are responsible for paying our bills every 13 month, we know that we can afford this one, and 1 12 having purchased a solar water heater, I know the 13 costs of just heating the water from solar energy, 14 and I've worked with a number of companies that 15 have been down-sizing. I've also worked with the 16 individuals who have been caught in down-sizing. 17 I've been unemployed at one point in my 18 own life and I know what it's like to be very 19 scared about the bills. l 20 So we believe it's essential to have a 21 freedom of choice and to know, for instance, that 22 nuclear is affordable as part of the current mix. i 23 I think freedom is probably one.of our 24 most fundamental values, and it's the freedom to 25 choose. It's the freedom to choose to take the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 i i

43 1 risk or not. It's the freedom to have a variety of 2 sources, and it's the freedom of a market economy 3 to determine whether we' - going to pursue one 4 technology or another. 5 I think that's the way a lot of us make 6 our decisions is about what matters to us; family, 7 environment, safety, return on investment. 8 And I think all of the viewpoints are 9 valid. I just simply ask for the choice to be to able to make them. 11 And that's really why I came to speak to 12 you tonight is to thank you for facing some of the 13 things that you face; for taking the time to 14 listen; and for overseeing an industry which I'm 15 sure is not always a popular position to be in. 16 Thanks again. 17 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. 18 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF JOETTE 19 LORION. 20 MS. LORION: I tried to wait a while 21 because I do have a statement that I really want to 22 get on the record, and it may be a little longer. 23 JUDGE BLOCH: I know your name, but the 24 Reporter may not at this point. 25 MS. LORION: My name is Joette Lorion, ANN RILEY (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. 293-3950 =

l 44 1 (spelling) J-o-e-t-t-e, L-o-r-i-o-n. 2 I'm the Director of the Center for 3 Nuclear Responsibility, which was founded in 1981, 4 and is a research and litigation organization with 5 a board of directors of twelve members. 6 And the other people who help us'are 7 called supporters, so they're not members, but we 8 have hundreds of people who have given us money 9 over the years to litigate nuclear safety issues on 10 Turkey Point. 11 I want to preface the statement I'm 12 making here tonight by saying that I don't know 13 you, Judge Bloch, or this Board, so I don't want 14 you to take this personally. l I 15 Also, I know many of the NRC people and 16 FPL in this room who I greatly respect, so I don't l 17 want them to take this personally. i is However, I basically came here tonight ig to get down on the NRC and that's what I'm going to 20 do. 1 l 21 Magic is a very old art, and when the' l l 22 magician is extremely skillful at diverting 23 attention from what is -- excuse me -- the magician 24 is extremely skillful at diverting attention from 25 what is really happening. l l ANN RILEY & (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. l 293-3950 l

h 4 l 45 1 I suggest that we look at this Limited I 2 Appearance proceeding here tonight in the context 3 of magic, NRC magic, for what appears to be 4 happening here tonight and what the NRC wants us to 5 believe is happening here tonight is to have us i 6 believe that the NRC is doing their job to protect 7 the public health and safety by allowing citizen a participation in nuclear safety issues, 9 I would suggest, however, that both the to appearance of public participation and the 33 appearance that the NRC is doing their job on 12 nuclear safety is just that, an illusion, and that 13 what happens here tonight will have no effect on ,~ ( l 14 the public health and safety. xy 15 The citizen participation that the NRC 16 is allowing here tonight is not meaningful citizen .( 37 participation. is There will be no experts here to answer 1 39 our questions. There will be no exchange of 20 information on critical safety issues that affect i 21 Turkey Point. 22 We are merely being provided an j i 23 opportunity to vent our frustration about the 24 Turkey Point Plant, which is what I'm doing here i f] 25 tonight. b ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 E _j

p i 46 e L i Yet'nothing I say or anybody else says 2 here tonight will change the way Turkey Point 3 operates, nor will it or can it influence the NRC's V [ 4 decision made last month not to shut Turkey Point 5 down and to take it off the watch list of problem 6 plants. 7 I come here tonight speaking from a experience. I've been litigating and attempting to 9 litigate nuclear safety issues before the NRC for to over ten years. 11 In fact, I've been involved in five 12 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board proceedings, 13 numerous federal court cases, one of which went to 14 the United States Supreme Court. l I 15 So I think when I come here to speak 16 tonight it's from experience, and a wealth of 17 experience, and it's not because I haven't tried to is use the system. I really have. 19 The main reason I'm here tonight is 20 because less than two months ago another Atomic ~ 21 Safety and Licensing Board granted Florida Power 22 and Lignt's motion for summary judgment and 23 cancelled a public hearing that was to be held on 24 February 27, just last month. 25 I suggest to you that this hearing was l l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

y I 47 1. I 1 cancelled in violation of the Commission's own rule l 2 of their own laws and in violation of the '\\ j 3 Administrative Procedure Act because a public 4 hearing on the pressure vessel embrittlement at 5 Turkey Point Unit 4, unlike this proceeding, had w 6 the potential to shut that plant down and to remove 7 the license of the plant. l j e I would also state that the NRC's 9 treatment of its regulations and law suffers when to the Agency's de facto priority of keeping power 11 plants running is at stake. 12 Through the years, I have witnessed the 13 NRC's regulations, when they threaten this ( ) 14 objective of keeping a plant operating, tend to 15 disappear suddenly like the cheshire cat in Alice 16 in Wonderland. 17 For in reality, the problems at Turkey is Point caused by aging, such as pressure vessel 39 embrittlement, are unsolvable, and thus they must 20 be obscured and not addressed, because if they were i 21 addressed in a public forum with scientific 22 experts, this plant would be in jeopardy, its [ 23 license would be in jeopardy. l 24 The Commission did not want a hearing on L 25 the issue of pressure vessel embrittlement, an l /] (._ / ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 l

48 1 issue that commissioner Carr, only a week after my l 2 hearing was cancelled, went before Congress asking 3 for money to study the issue because the NRC 4 understood it so little and stating what an 5 important issue it was. ( 6 Yet the NRC cancelled a hearing that 7 could have aided their understanding of the e problem, especially as the problem relate. to g Turkey Point, one of the most affected plants. 10 And just to kind of, for people who 11 don't know, pressure vessel embrittlement is when 12 radiation, neutron radiation, bombards the welds of 13 the. reactor vessel causing the metal to become 14 brittle. I I; 15 In the case of Turkey Point, the metal 16 may be so brittle that if you had an accident such 17 as the ihree-Mile Island accident, where you had to is cool the reactor off quickly, the water hitting 19 these brittle wells could cause the reactor to have c ( W.; crack and cause the cooling water to escape. a 20 21 And the NRC even admits that if the 22 pressure vessel integrity is not maintained, there 23 is no way to stop a meltdown. 1 24 I want to state that our organization 25 was prepared to have as a witness at this hearing 1 l l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 l

l l 49 1 Dr. George Sih, who is Director of Practure 2 Mechanics at Lehigh University, a renowned 3 scientist who has spent his whole life studying 4 how much fatigue metals can take before they break. 5 Dr. Sih was prepared to come to this 6 hearing and dispute FPL and the NRC technical 7 experts. 8 And despite thn fact that when FPL filed 9 their motion for summary judgment, we answered with 30 thirty-two pages, twenty-three exhibits, and a 31 letter from Dr. Sih disputing the other side and, and in summary 12 Judge, I know you know the law 13 disposition, all you have to do is show that 34 there's an issue of fact. 15 Dr. Sih disagreed with FPL and the NRC, i l 16 and we are right now appealing the Board's decision 17 because we believe there was an issite of fact. 18 JUDGE BLOCH: That right now is before 19 the Commission or -- i 20 a'; MS. LORION: That right now is before he Atomic Safety and Licensing Appeal Board. 21 22 We were also prepared to present 23 evidence that FPL, with the NRC's blessing, was 24 obscuring the true operating condition of Turkey 25 Point Unit 4 by using the data from the less ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. l (202) 293-3950 l l 1

p; L 50 j i severely affected. t. 2 There's two units at Turkey Point, 3 and -3 4. They were using data from Unit 3 with old data 4 from Unit 4 to set new. pressure temperature limits. 5 Our argument was because the only weld 6 metal test ever done to Turkey Point Unit 4 showed 7 it was thirty percent more brittle than Unit 3, a that they should have used they should have g taken another weld metal test when they were to supposed to in 1985 and have used that data to set 11 the new operating limits. 12 Yet, the NRC again allowed FPL not to 13 test that weld metal sample in 1985 and allowed I I 14 them to delay testing that sample until the year 15 2000. 16 I )ust would contend here that if the 17 proof is in the pudding and the pudding is that 18 Weld metal sample on Turkey Point Unit 4, then why 19 is the NRC not making FPL test that sample? 20 Our experts, by using FPL's own test 21

data, is saying that Turkey Point Unit 4 is
  • l 22 Probably beyond the NRC's screening criteria, 23 beyond the point of safe operation.

i 24 So we wanted to have a hearing. We've 25 been trying to get a hearing for this since 1981. I I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

[E i c y 51 ) 1 We've gone to the Appeals Court, the U.S. Supreme '[ 2 Court, turned into a procedural nightmare. \\ 3 We have never had a hearing on the l 4 merits of the pressure vessel embrittlement issue 5 as it relates to Turkey Point. j 6 The reason I'm bringing this up is I 7 know it may relate to the technical specification O 8 changes-because I believe Contention 25 has g something to do with this issue. 10 As one who has been involved in the NRC 11 process again for ten years, I must tell you that I 12 saw the NRC's cancellation of this hearing not as 13 an isolated incident, but as a part of a broad f i (j i 34 effort on the part of the NRC to severely restrict 15 citizen participation in nuclear safety issues that 16 affect the health and welfare of the public. 17 I contend that this is especially true t is on issues such as pressure vessel embrittlement, 19 where the facts might interfere with the 11RC's 20 Predetermined conclusaans that Turkey Point is a..' 21

safe, despite the fact that the problem of 22 Pressure vessel embrittlement has been _an 23 unresolved safety issue before the Nuclear 24 Regulatory Commission for over ten years and

[~'s 25 despite the fact that Commissioner Carr has stated '%j ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

52 1 that it's an important issue and they need money to 2 investigate it. q 3 I believe that because the NRC has not 4 resolved these very important safety issues, that 5 both the NRC and the nuclear industry believe they 6 can solve their problems if they just get rid of 7 people like me who raise the disconcerting e problems. 9 Yet this attitude could not be farther 10 from the truth. The truth is that citizen 33 participation has enhanced nuclear safety and 12 ensured environmental protection. 13. There is not one case where any nuclear l l 14 proceeding like this has delayed operation of a 15 nuclear plant or licensing of a plant. I 16 However, despite this fact, the NRC has 17 always considered intervenors interlopers which is is why the term "intervenor." You're interfering 19 between the Commission and the licensee. l 20 In fact, what I've really seen happen, l 21 and as I

said, I started this in the early 22 eighties, is that the attitude of licensing boards 23 has gone from tolerance and a grudging respect to 24 one of I think disdain for the public.

25 In

fact, just recently in another ANN RILBY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.

(202) 293-3950 l l l U

I 53 l 1 attempt to close the door on the public, the NRC 2 has passed a new rule making it more difficult for 3 citizen intervenors to get a hearing by giving them 4 more procedural roadblocks to go through, such as 5 Mr. Saporito will have to go through if he wants a 6 hearing, as if the process wasn't tough enough. 7 The NRC says these rules are designed to 8 improve the licensing process. In reality, they 9 are designed to sharply minimize the role and 10 effect of citizens in Licensing Board proceeding. it It is interesting to note that the NRC 12 was born of the old AEC or Atomic Energy in 1975 13 when Congress recognized the need to separate those 14 who promote nuclear power from those who regulate 15 it. 16 The sole mission of the NRC was to be to 17 Protect the public, is As one who has participated extensively 19 in this process, I must tell'you that my trust in 20 this Agency's desire and ability to carry out this 1 21 mandate has dissipated, as I have witnessed the NRC 22 repeatedly undermining its own regulations when a 23 nuclear plant such as Turkey Point can't or won't f 24 meet the requirements. 25 I have seen numerous safety criteria ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

I ^ 54 1 relaxed, just as the utility appears to now be 2 attempting to. relax certain criteria on this 3 - technical specification amendment. 4 One glaring example of the problems at 5 Turkey Point is something called " Station I 6 Blackout," and the significance of that. 7 Just a few days ago at the Vogtle Plant e in Georgia, in Waynesboro, Georgia, we're aware 9 that they had a loss of off-site power and that to there could have been a very serious accident, but 11 the diesel generators kicked in and saved the plant 12 basically from having a serious accident. 13 Well, the problem at Turkey Point is I I 14 that the diesel generators at Turkey Point are very 15 unreliable. The NRC has known this since the early 16 1980's. 17 In fact, in 1985, FPL wrote and I 18 thought I had it here,.I have it in my briefcase-- 19 FPL wrote the NRC a letter talking about this and 20 that they were concerned about it. And the NRC 21 has been concerned about it for years. 22 In fact, at various times in 1987, both 23 units were kept down because of concern over the 24 diesel generators. 25 In November of this year, Turkey Point ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 i

je; 55 1 is going to shut down for eleven months each unit _r r 2 to put in new diesel generators. i' and just to i 3 However, I don't think 4 kind of point out how the Commission works, 5 Station Blackout has been another unresolved safety 6 issue for ten years. It's a Category A issue. 2 7 It's very important. .g 8 The NRC is aware that Turkey Point's i 9 diesel generators may not meet the criterion, yet 10 they have allowed them to limp along and will 11 continue to allow them to limp along until November 12 when they will shut down to fix them; all the while 13 knowing that Turkey Point may not have_been able to p !( ) 14 cope with something like what happened at the 15 Vogtle Plant. 1 16 This is a very serious issue and -- 17 ' JUDGE BLOCH: Ms. Lorion,.would you like is to forecast how much more time you need? 19 MS. LORION: Just a few more minutes. 20 I just wanted to point out in the NRC's r 21 activity that in March 21, 1990, I have here a 22 draft of a letter, and I want to address Station 23 Blackout because I think it may be in this l-24 proceeding and I think it's important. l l 25 Excuse me, it's October 24, 1989. Y.) I L ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

l 56 i There's a draft of a letter that the NRC ] a 2 generic letter, a 50.54 letter, they were going to 3 send to utilities over concern about Station 4 Blackout. 5 And what they did is they audited the 6 responses of ten power plants on Station Blackout, 7 Turkey Point included. 4 a They found out that a majority of the 9 plants that were audited had either incomplete or 10 improperly performed calculations for assessing the 11 effects of loss of ventilation in operability and 12 reliability of equipment necessary to cope with 13 the Station Blackout. l I 14 Tney.never sent this letter, and my 15 sources tell me the reason it was never sent was 16 because it was given to the nuclear industry and 17 that the NRC was talked out of sending it. 18 I don't know if that's true, but that's 19 what I hear. I have the draft here if anybody 20 wants to see it. 21 It's really hard to understand how the 22 NRC has allowed Turkey Point to continue to operate 23 when they know about this Station Blackout problem, 24 when recent probablistic risk assessment show that 25 Station Blackout can contribute ninety percent to a (202) ASSOCIATES, LTD. ANN RILEY 293-3950

f l t i 57 l core meltdown. 1 [~'} 2 It's also difficult to understand for me / 3 how in Febr*1ary of this year the NRC could remove j ~ 4 Turkcy Point from their watch list of problem 5 plants in the same year that fifty percent of their 6 operators failed their license requalification 7 exam, in the same year that despite the fact that s they operated at less than fifty percent capacity 9 in less than the year before, they had the same 10 number of violations; yet somehow, the NRC, in 11 their wisdom, decided that FPL's Turkey Point Plant 12 had. improved. 13 And this is despite the fact that in 3 ( ) i4 June, barely six months before, they had threatened v 15 that Turkey Point would be shut down if it didn't le improve considera.bly. 17

Well, I say to you, Judge, that the 18 facts, if you look at them, and you look at the 19
reports, Turkey Point has not-improved 20 considerably, and obviously the NRC is not going 21 on facts; they're going on political judgments and 22 they're risking the public health and safety.

23 In sum, the past few years, the NRC has 24 taken a series of actions that puts both the public f'~' 25 health and safety and the citizen participation at v ANN RIL Y & ASSOCIATES, LTD. 202 293-3950

6 58 t 1 risk. 2 In the case of Turkey Point, the NRC L. 3 would have us believe that they've somehow waved 4 their magic wand and have problems disappear that s have existed at that plant since 1982. 6 Yet nuclear safety does not come from 7 magic. It should be based on facts. 8 And the facts show, if you look'at them, 9 that Turkey Point is both an unsafe and 10 uneconomical plant. It's operated at less than 11 fifty percent capacity for the last five years, and 12 I dare say if FPL couldn't pass those costs on to 13 the consumer through the Public Service Commission 14 that they would have shut Turkey Point down five 15 years ago. 16 In my heart I know that there are 17 peoP e in this room that know that I'm right. I l 18 think that the NRC knows that the problems at 19 Turkey Point are unsolvable, but like Alice in the I 20 looking glass, they're afraid to look for fear of 21 what they might find. 22 And also, a GAR report fropi 1987 kind f it's called " Efforts i 23 of Points it all out when i 24 to Ensure Nuclear Power Plant Safety can be 25 Strengthened." f02) hhNb i

5 L 59 J l 1 What it points out is that the NRC I ! - [~ 'T -2 doesn't shut down nuclear plants. The only plant

-s

' ~ ' ' 3 in this country they ever shut down for performance 4 problems was the Peach Bottom Plant after operators s were sleeping thirty-two times and that they really 6 have no guidelines for shutting down nuclear power 7 plants. l 8 I'd just like to stop now. I'd like to 9 paraphrase Commissioner Asselstine, two statements 10 by him. He was a former NRC Commissioner. 11 One is that this NRC believes their 12 mandate, rather than to protect the public health a 13 and safety, is to protect the nuclear industry. /m k 14 And the other is that the Commission's v 15 role is to create the gauzy illusion of protection 1e against conduct that the public wouldn't.otherwise 17 tolerate. 18 Thank-you. 19 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. s. 3 SI^e t t I'd just like to make one comment which 20 '~hQ1;Y y 21 Tils? that I don't consider petitioners or intervenors 22 to be somehow annoyances. 23 MS. LORION: Thank-you. I'm glad you-- 24 like I said, I don't know you. I can only speak l . (~' 25 from my experience. ANN RILEY ir ASSOCIATES, LTD. i (202) 293-3950 i.

60 1 I've had some very good Atomic Safety 2 and Licensing Board judges, but just like in the 3 federal courts, and I work for law firms as a 4 research consultant,- and I guess this is going to 5 tell what party I am, but with the change in 6 administration many years ago, I've seen a real 7 change in the way the judges rule on cases, and it i e really saddens me. s Thank-you. to JUDGE BLOCH: Before you begin, I would 11 just appreciate it if anyone knows they're going to 12 go over ten minutes, if they'd request permission 13 to go over ten minutes. 14 Please continue. I I-15 LIMITED APPEARANCE STATEMENT OF BILL I 16 MILLER. 17 MR. MILLER: I will probably go much 10 less than ten minutes. j 19 Good evening. My name is Bill Miller. 20 That's (spelling) B-i-1-1, M-i-1-1-e-r. j I 21 I'm a reactor operator at Florida Power 1 22 and Light's Turkey Power Plant. 23 I've been one for quite a while. In 24 fact, I helped to build the Turkey Point nuclear 25 units; stayed on to operate after they were built; I I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. g (202) 293-3950 ~ ~.

1 61 3 and for the past several years have been teaching 2 others how to operate those nuclear units. 3 1 didn't really want to come here a tonight either but when I was reading about the s subject matter of your hearing for the next couple 6 of days and the fact that the contention had been 7 made that revising the plant tech specs would e somehow degrade plant safety, it made me feel that e I had to come here, because frankly I find that n 30 contention outrageous. 33 I am a user of tech specs. In 1972, 12 when our plant first started up, operators were 33 issued their technical specifications, their 34 approved tech specs, which are often referred to as 35 customized tech specs, and they certainly didn't 16 look much like the technical specifications that 17 we're talking about today. 4 38 But we used them, and we operated the 33 plant safely for a number of years with them. O 20 I know that in the mid 1980's, our a 21 company made the commitment that we would changn to 22 the standardized tech specs. 6 P3 As part of that process, what we did, 24 and this is several years ago now, we cperators 25 were issued a second document.

AgggS, LTD.

ANN RIL l

62 3 The second document we call, at the 2 local level, the interim tech specs. They are very 3 much in appearance and format just like the 4 standardized tech specs that you will be dealing with tonight and tomorrow. 6 We used them. In fact, if 1 may for 7 just a moment describe to you how we used them, if j e we have an issue that arises in the control room y and we recognize it as a potential tech spec issue, 10 we pull out our copy of our formal approved tech [ 13 specs and we see how that issue is dealt with in j ig that tech specs. 33 We also pull out our interim tech specs, 34 that which looks very much like the standardized I ll f 3$ tech specs, and we see what it has to say about 16 that subject also. 17 And in so doing, and having done this 38 many times, the thing that I have come to realize 39 that when I compare the two, I have discovered i [that this version of tech spec, and I think I'm po 21 very confident when I say that I speak for not only 22 myself as a reactor operator, but for the fifty-23 four other reactor operators there, this new g4 version of tech specs is superior. i ps The old version did the job, but this ANN RILEY &) ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202 293-3950 m.

i (3 1 new tech spec version is so much better, j 2 It's better in the sense that when we ) 3 have an issue we have to deal with and we want 4 clear guidance on how to deal with that issue, we 6 are able to get clear, concise, and conservative 6 guidance from that new tech spec, from that interim 7 tech spec. e The question arises is it more or less p conservative? Is it more or less safe than the 30 previous tech spee? r 33 In almost every instance I have found 12 the two are compatible. There is very little I 33 difforence. r s ) 34 But when differences have arisen, in my 35 own experience, what I have discovered is that the 16 new version is indeed more conservative, and as 37 such we operators have gotten used to this new 38 version of tech specs. We know that it is very is similar in nature to the standardized tech specs 20 that we're hoping to adopt, and we operators are t i 21 very comfortable with it and very well trained with 22 it. 23 Now, our plans, assuming that they're P' 24 approved, and I mentioned that I am part of the I [N-25 training department. I'm a teacher of reactor 'v] LTD. ANNRILEYI) ASSOCIATES, (20 293-3950

p 64 [ i 1 operators. 2 Our plans would be to move forward with 3 an intensive training program. That's just part of 4 the way that we do business. 5 So that if they are implemented, when 6 they are implemented, our people wi.11 be very well 7 versed in their use, and our people already know e enough of them right now to feel very confident 9 that those standardized tech specs will in no way l io ever degrade safe reactor operation, n They're going to be an enhancement to 12 safe reactor operation. 33 I guess that's about all I wanted to 34 tell you. I just wanted to assure you that as an 15 end-user, as one of the people who is dealing with 16 these tech specs on a daily basis, we chink they're I 17 good. We think they're safe. We'd like to I 38 implement them. 39 Thank-you. 20 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. 21 Could people who would like to speak at 22 some point this evening, please raise your hands 23 right now so I'll know how many people to expect. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE BLOCH: Thank-you. I notice that t LTD. ANNRILEYI) ASSOCIATES, (20 293-3950

r J 65 I 3 there are no hands, which makes me think that we 1 2 have ne more speakers. I ^~ 3 I want to make one remark before we 4 conclude tonight. The remark has to do with tomorrow's proceeding, which is a proceeding on j. e whether or not to admit contentions in this case. 7 One of the most important things we're 3 8 going to be dealing with tomorrow is whether or e not the Petitioner has indicated the particular 30 errors or omissions that he finds in the documents 33 that the applicants have submitted. 12 And in reading the documents, there is 33 some difficulty in finding the full 34 rationalization that the Petitioner would like to 15

present, se I'd just like to encourage the 17 Petitioner to be willing to share what the real se fears and concerns are about the documents; what's 39 missing, what's there, because if you are seriously 20 concerned within yourself, then you probably have k

21 things to say that could be admissible in this 22 proceeding. 23 We are going to want that tomorrows 24 specific items of omission, specific items that you ,/'"] 25 feel are in error, and why. \\ ) v ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950

r l, l 66 i And if they're clear and reasonable, I 2 think you'll find that they can be admissible, but { 3 we have to hear that. 4 Under the new regulations, which were l t 5 correctly pointed out, it's more difficult for the j 6 admission of contentions than the old regulations ,t i 7 were. e I'd like to express my p e r s o ria l s gratitude for all the people who took the time to so speak to us this evening. F it It was a privilege hearing all of you, i 12 and I myself am not amazed that there's such a 13 diversity of views in this world. That's something 14 that I find enriching. I is I'd like to thank you for being here. 16 I'm looking forward to tomorrow's hearing which 37 begins p:omptly at nine o' clock, is Thank-you, and we're adjourned. i is (Whereupon, the proceedings were 20 adjourned at 8:20 o' clock, p.m.) 21 22 23 24 ? i G! ANNRILEYI) ASSOCIATES, LTD. (20 293-3950

o a 67 l I CER T I F 1 CATE ,.Am/ l 3 I hereby certify that this is the { transcript of the proceedings held before the: NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION l 5 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD i v 6 -{ i l 7 on March 22, 1990 j .j _ 8 l In the Matter of Florida Power and Light Company l 10 Turkey Point Plant 11 Docket Nos.: 50-250-OLA-5, 550-251-OLA-5 3 12 13 and that this is a full correct transcription of '\\ 14 the proceedings. 15 16 f f 17 [ 18 ACA-1, Reporter / Notary Public ] 20 t' { 21 22 23 My Commission Expires f November 2, 1991 25 l \\ f ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. (202) 293-3950 j .i o ,_%--.,,-..._,..__,,_-_._~-.,_-....,..,_-_.s.-_ _......,. _ _,. -,. _ -. --,i .-}}

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