ML20033A904
| ML20033A904 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 11/12/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19270A216 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 SECY-81-594, NUDOCS 8111300141 | |
| Download: ML20033A904 (18) | |
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COMMISSION MEETING In the.'%t:::ar cf:
PUBLIC MEETING AFFIRMATION SESSION 81-42 l
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DATI:
November 12.
, 9L PAGES:
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Washington, D. C.
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1 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 5
AFFIRMATION SESSION 81-42 6
7 8
PUBLIC NEETING 9
10 11 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Room 1130 12 1717 H Street, N. W.
Washington, D. C.
13 14 Thursday, November 12, 1981 15 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 16 3 :05 p.m.
17 BEFOREs 18 NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission 19 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner PETER BRADFORD, Commissioner 20 JOHN AHEARNE, Commissioner THOMAS ROBERTS, Commissioner 21 ALSO PRESENTS 22 S. CHILK 23 L. BICKWIT F. REMICK 24 W. DIRCKS 25 I
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CHAIRMAN PALLADI.?Os The meeting will please come 3 to order.
4 This is an affirmation discussion session and I 5 will ask the Secretary to walk us through the items on the 6 agenda.
7 MR. CHILK The first paper is SECY-81-595, PGEE 8 motion for reconsideration of the Diablo Canyon order in 9 which the Commission is being asked to respond to a PGEE 10 motion seeking reconsideration of its September 1981 11 decision insof ar as it directed the Licensing Board to 12 include low-power contentions 10 and 12 in the full-power 13 proceeding.
14 The Commission has unanimously approved the order 15 which denies a motion for reconsideration.
16 Would you please affirm your vote.
17 (Unanimous Chorus of Ayes.)
18 MR. CHILK4 The second paper is SECY-81-594.
This 19 has been advanced one week and to discuss it and bring it up 20 ve will need a vote to hold on less than one-week's notice.
21 CHAIRMLN PALLADINO:
May I have a vote to hold on 221ess than one-week 's notice the discussion on the 23 SECY-81-594 7 24 COMMISSIONER GILIMSKY4 What is the subject there?
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINOs Publication of guidelines for ALCER$oN REPCRTING COMPANY,1NC.
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1 1 the management of agreement state radiation control programs.
2 (Unanimous Chorus of Ayes.)
3 MR. CHILKs Here the Commission is being asked to 4 approve a Federal Register notice statement of policy being 51ssued to inform the States and the public of the criteria 6 and guidelines which the Commission recommends for 7 aanagement of the agreement state radiation control programs.
8 Chairman Palladino and Commissioners Gilinsky, 9 Ahearne and Roberts have approved the paper with 10 modifica tions that were circulated to you under my 11 memorandum of November the 12th.
12 Commissioner Bradford has approved also.with 13 modifications which are being staffed ac present.
I wonder 14 if I could ask the Commission to indicate whether or not 15 there is an agreement with Mr. Bradford's modifications?
16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORDs Let's see.
I don't think 17 I had modifications other than a suggestion that there 18 should be a firm date for the proposing of the criteria.
19 MR. CHILKs That is correct.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That is not a modification 21 of the pape r.
22 MR. CHILK:
That is not a modification of the i
23 paper.
Tha t is really an addition.
24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
This is to develop ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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4 1 performance objectives?
2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
John's I thought 3 properly noted that that was an area that the Commission had 4 been interested in bef ore.
In fact, I thought it had 5 conveyed the instruction on in June and I was just 6 suggesting tha t we firm the guidance up by putting a date by 7 which we expected the criteria back, but I don't believe I 8 aodified the paper in any way.
9 MR. CHILKa
.I am sorry.
I addressed that comment 10 as a modification.
11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
What date did you propose?
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I said the 1st of the yea r 13 tha t the criteria should be available for comment.
14 0Dviously it would be sometime after that before they became 15 final.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
As I understand, there are e 17 number of complicatih4 f actors such as the uniqueness of the 10 many characteristics of the way each State runs.
So it 19 could take some time.
20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORDa But in terms of getting
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21 something available to go for comment, Joe, there has got to l
22 be some 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
B~ill, in considering l
24 SECY-594, the guidelines for the management of agreement l
25 state radiation control programs, it has been suggested that l
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i ALDERSON REPCRTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
5 1 the Commission ask the staff to develop a set of requirement 2 objectives for these guidelinas for use with the agreement 3 states.
The suggestion is being made that we instruct the 4 staff to do this by a certain date.
The date that 5 Commissioner Bradford had proposed was this coming January 61st.
7 My question is is that something that could be 8 done in that time frame or does it take additional time 9 beyond that and wha t might be a realistic date?
10 MR. DIRCKS:
Well, it depends on what you want.
11 Overnight we could develop a couple of ---
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That shouldn't be 13 overnight, though, Bill, because 14 ER. DIRCKSt If you want to make it right now, I 15 could write it out for you.
It depends on what you want.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
The degree of specificity.
17 HR. DIRCKS:
The degree of specificity and the 18 quality of work because you have got to have something there 19 that the states can respond back to.
These programs are of 20 great diversity and they scatter over something like five or 21 six thousand licensees now.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY El ev en.
23 MR. DIRCKS4 Yes, 11,000 licensee s, right.
But 24 about 5,000 are medical and you don't have to vorry too much 23about those.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W, WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
6 1
In order to have any sort of meaningful number you 2 have got to have some specificity in the request for 3 criteria.
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The Commission did say in 5 June that it wanted these criteria.
It is not as though we 6 were starting from today.
Somebody presumably has been 7 working on these for four months already.
8 (Laughter.)
9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD I think the word 10 " presumably" was designed to smoke out just that point.
11 (Laughter.)
12 HR. DIRCKS:
You get what you pay for.
If you 13 van t to get some people together and spend some money I 14 suppose we could come up with something that would be 15 meaningf ul right away.
By right way, we probably could, 16 depending on what you expect to get out of this thing 17 (Laughter.)
18 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
Before the close of 19 business today.
20 (Laughter.)
21 COHNISSIONER GILINSKYa Well, we are talking about 22 a d ra f t that they are going to react to.
So it is a matter 23 of getting the process started and get something out that 24 they will react to.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s The problem as I see it, i
l ALDERSoN REPCRTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
7 1 among other things, is that everything we rush we have to 2 push something else aside and I am not clear at the moment 3 what tradeoffs we are making.
I am not sure that these are 4
4 as essential as other things that.may be needed.
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Is there a midway point 6though between rush and never?
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Oh, yes.
8 (Laughter.)
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I am frankly not convinced 10 that we need them because there is such diversity among th e 11 states and the staff is working with the states and 12 accomplishing good control programs.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
This, as I recall, is one 14 o f the things that the states ha ve said tha t it would really 15 help them if we had a set of things.
Right at the moment it 16 is a very subjective discussion between our staff and the 17 sta tes.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, I don't have all your 19 f amiliarity.
20 MR. DIRCKS:
Did the states really sa.' that?
21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes, they did, in the 22 radiation control material.
That is right.
Usually it is 23 when we disagree with the state 's program that they say 24 well, look we really would have been helped if you guys had 25 been able to say that ALCERSON REPORTING CCMPANY,INC, N MN.
8 1
HR. DIRCKSa Whatever you come up with will 2 require the states to accumulate data and report data back 3 to us.
I have never heard too many people liking to be put 4 in that positico.
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Vait now.
That is not 6 necessarily true that any objective criteria we develop 7 means the state has got to accumulate data and report it 8 back to us.
9 The point that several of the states have made, at 101 east a year or so ago, when we had said we had a lot of 11 troubles with their programs, the point that they had raised 12 was that this is all your judgment.
You don 't have any list 13 of things that we are supposed to meet, very specific 14 criteria that we are supposed to be measured against.
15 Now I will grant that some states have also 16 pointed out that you shouldn't compare us with that other 17 state because we are different, one is larger, one is 18 sm aller ---
19 MR. DIRCKS:
That is difficult.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It is difficult.
21 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY:
It really sounds like we 22 are really talking about not doing it at all.
You are 23 saying what Bill is sa ying.
24 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, I know the staff 25 doesn 't want to do it.
That is true.
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CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I was coming in probably with 2 too little background.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I r.ean if we are not going 4 to do it, we ought to just tell everybody we are not going 5 to do it.
The reason I have been concerned about this area Sis that in the past we really haven't done a very good job 7 of overseeing the state programs and we have tended to be, 8 you know, very shy about criticizing them and stepping in.
9 Now since Bill has been head of NMSS ve got 10 tou gher.
11 (Laughter.)
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
"Since" is a word that 13 could be interpreted two ways.
14 (Laughter.)
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, from the time when 16 ve started this ref orm and this is the f ruit of it ---
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I wasn't aware that the 18 sta tes were complaining they didn't have guidalines.
19 MH. DIRCKS:
We could put something together that 20 would sort of give you I suppose a conceptual look at some i
21 measurement devices without coming up with any great detail, l
22 or more importantly, without too much of a firm handle on 23 the costs that we may be imposing either on our system or l
l 24 the state system.
We couldn't give you tha t information.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, certainly the states t
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10 1 could tell us.
2 MR. DIRCKS:
The states will tell us, but we don't 3 vant to say it in such a way that the states will 4 immediately see such an impact that they won't come back and 5 rationally tell us.
6' I think what we can do is give you some, and it 7 won't be in. great depth or in great detail, but at least we 8 can outline something in a conceptual framework.
Just give 9 me the time and we will come back with some proposal to to you.
Again, it would be the final product, but it will be 11 something that you can take a look at.
It might not be 12 satisf actory to send to the states, but we can start the 13 ball rolling.
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
When would you expect to be 15 able to develop something that would be satisfactory to send 16 to the states?
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
To send te the states for 18 their comments.
19 HR. DIRCKS:
We can tell you when it would be 20 satisfactory to send to you ---
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, why don't we see 22 what we get.
23 HR. DIRCKS:
Let me say that at least 7e will get 24 something done without diverting a lot of manpower and 25 without spending such money.
We vill get you a piece of ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
11 1 paper down that would outline that here is a program that 2 could serve as a basis for exploring something with the 3 states in about a month from nov.
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I an a little worried in 5 pushing you too ha rd.
6 MB. DIRCKSs I feel I am being pushed.
7 (Laughter.)
8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I see there may be some need 9 for it.
I hate to have something real superficial and yet I 10 would have to have you divert a lot of attention, but 11 perhaps something like March 1st would be a realistic time-12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think we are going to 13 get exactiv the same ---
14 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Except that you will get it 15 by Ma rch 1st.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Except that we vill get it 17 by March 1st.
I mean the guy instead of starting to work 18 today he vill start working on February 1 19 CHAIBMAN PALLADI110:
That is part of what I was 201ooking for.
21
( Laug ht e r. )
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
If you don't want this 23 thing to come out, it is a different story.
I guess I was 24 -- (Inaudible) -- to think what we were putting out with 25 these criteria.
ALDERSoN REPORTING CCMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINtA AVE, S.W, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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1 MR. DIRCKS:
Well, you are getting something 2 here.
It is not obviously what you wanted.
We don 't always 3 have great success in convincing everyone.
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You explicitly dropped out 5 the mention of those performance characteristics.
6 MR. DIRCKS:
We dropped out some of them.
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You dropped out even the 8 mention of it.
9 MR. DIRCKS:
No.
10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
It is going back in,
11 but it das dropped out.
12 MR. DIRCKS:
I think the staff paper does cover 13 tha t.
We have some objec'tive measurement of the effluent (Simultaneous Conversations -
14 releases contained 15 Inaudible).
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It will be the same guy 17 who will sit down and who will do it.
It is not a guy who 181s licen sing reactors -- (Simultaneous Conversations -
19 Inaudible).
20 MR. DIRCKS:
If you want to take it as a step-wise 21 f unction, we vill give you something and then you may react 22 to it and we vill ---
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
This is going to 24 presumably get done in state programs, isn't it?
25 MR. DIRCKS:
Yes.
ALDERSoN REPCRTING CCMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINLA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTCN, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY So I mean what is it 2 competing with that concerns you?
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
That is my problem.
I don't 4 know what it is competing with and as soon as you impose a 5 quick date, then that automatically takes away your 6 opportunity to find out what it is competing with.
I was 7 willing to go to darch 1st and say, well, all right, but 8 apparently you see a need for it r,ather quickly, and I don't 9 have all your background, and I was trying to give a 10 roasonable time period in which to do it.
Maybe I should 11 keep quiet because I don't have all the background.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
(Inaudible.)
13
( La ugh te r. )
14 COMMISSION ER BRADFORD:
You are doing fine.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs It is a matter of span of 18 a ttention. It isn' t that it is the end of the world if it 17 comes March 1st.
It is just that by March 1st I will have 18 f orgotten it.
19 (Laughter.)
20 COMMISSIONER CILINSKY:
(Inaudible.)
~
l 21 (Laughter.)
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I have another problem.
l 23 December is complicated with a lot of other activities.
I 24 would suspect that if we get a memo we could get it out 25 through the Secretary and the Secretary would sure remind ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINtA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
14 1 us, or we would direct him to remind us -- (Inaudible) 2 COMMISSIONE3 AHEARNE:
How about February 1st?
3 COMMISSIONEB ROBERTS:
Yes, February.
4 CHAIRMAM PALLADINO:
I have no problem with 5 February 1st as the date.
6 Hell, the proposal is we try February 1st.
That 7 is a compromise.
8 MR. DIRCKS:
What do you want on February 1st.
9 (Laughter.)
to MR. DIRCKS:
A statement of what could be used to 11 measure the perf ormance of the sta te against some criteria 12 t ha t we -- ( Inaudible).
You want at least a statement in 13 broad terms.
I am not going to say it is going to be the 14 end-all -- (Inaudible. )
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, let's see.
I don't 16 have in front of me what the Commission 37Ad on the subject 17 of performance based criteria back in June, but whatever it 18 was maybe that cculd be what we get in February.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And an outline of how you 20 could get there.
21 MR. DIRCKS:
An outline of how we could get there, 22 fine.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I was hoping for a little 24 mor e.
I was hoping for an actual draft.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
For Commission 1
ALDERSoN REPCRTING COMPANY,INC,
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400 VIRGINtA AVL S.W., WASHINGTON O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
15 1 consideration.
That is what I thought they were asking for.
2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORDa Yes.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s Why don't we say this is what 4 we are going to ask you to do.
You can do it by February 51st.
Get us a draf t for Commission consideration and it 6 should be as close as you can make it to something we would 7 be willing to discuss with the states.
8 MR. DIRCKS:
We vill get as close as we can get to 9 that.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is that reasonable?
11 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD:
Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Fine.
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
(Nodding affirmatively.)
14 COMMISSIONER ROBERTSs (Nodding affirma tively. )
15 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Nov what do we do with 16 SEC Y-594.
17 MR. CHILK:
Can we separate the two?
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes. That is a separate one.
19 C.0MMISSIONER BR ADFORD:
Yes.
)
20 MR. CHILK Then would you please affirm your 21 votes on the SECY-594?
22 (Unanimous Chorus of Ayes.)
23 MR. CHILKs That concludes the affirmation.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Anything more to come on the 25 affirmation session?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
16 1
(No response.)
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CHAIRNAN PALLADINO:
We vill stand adourned.
3 (Whereupon, 3:20 p.m.,
the affirmation session 4 adjourned.)
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m NUCLEAR REEcATORY CCFJSICN This is 30 certif*/ Chat the. attached pr0ceedings before the COMMISSION MEETING in the ::: attar cf.
Affirmation Session 81 PUBLIC MEETING
- Cate of FrcCetcing:
November 12, 1981 OcCket litmber
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Flace of ?rcCseding:
Washington, D.
C.
- dors held as herein appears, anc chah thLs Ls the crL.;;inaL : sascrip-thcesCf for the file of the Cc=:::13sion.,
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