ML20031G937

Clarifies Views Concerning Conclusions Contained in House Subcommittee on Energy & Environ Rept.Conclusions of House Rept & IE Investigation Consistent.Portions of 810123 Commission Meeting Transcript Encl

ML20031G937
Person / Time
Site:	Crane
Issue date:	10/16/1981
From:	Stello V NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE)
To:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
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ML20031G934	List: ML20031G933 ML20031G937
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NUDOCS 8110260238
Download: ML20031G937 (11)

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October 16, 1981..

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1.9DPANDUM FOR:

The Comission

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(Sign:S Ylilliara J.Dircks

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lilllica J. Dirchs. Executive Director, for Operations Office of Inspection and Enforcenant FROM:

Pictor Stello, Jr., Director -

~e SU3 JECT:

.T!!I 2 INVESTIGATION

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During the Comission naating held on Octol>ar.14,1981, there was~a discussion-of qy views conceiming the conclusions contained in the report of the !!ouse Subcomittee on Energy, and the Environcent.,This discussion may have resulted- -

in a misunderstanding of my views. As you ray recall this issue was discussed during the January 23, 1981 Comission n2eting. Copies of the pertinent portions of the transcript of t.his meeting are unclosed (pages 199-205).

Additionally, qy views of the conclusions of.the House report were discussed

. during the June 25,1981 ACRS Subcomittee raeeting pertinent portions of th'e transcript of thi,s meting are enclosed (pages 329-330).

- As discussed in the enclosed transcripts, my view is that the conclusions of the House report and the IE conclusions are consistent.

Personally, I am

.in substantive agreement with the conclusions of the. House Committee Report.

original signed by V. Stello, Jr.

Victor Stello, Jr... Director Office.of Inspection and Enforcenant Portion of Com. Tr(ans 1/23/81

Enclosures:

Portion,of ACRS Trans 6/25/81 t.

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1 that you ne ve provided the Congreer with the interviews.

2

%E. 5,pELLO:

We have provided copies of the 3

intarviews anc other informatici as requested,.to Dr.

4 Meyers.

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5 CH AIM. A:; AMEAREE ' ;s this a, formal requirerent?,

6 MR. STFIL0s Ko, I do not recall any forma'l 7

requeFt f.or the documents.

fut therG vaS'a Clear indication

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8 of our need to cooperate, r.nd in my viev ve have fully and 9

corpletely.

10 CHAIF.!AN AHEARNFs Yeu he ve provided one 11 Concressional Committee the testieonies of the witnesses.

12 f.E. STELL0s Yec.

13 CHAIhfA5 AREAR!iEs las this before you provided 14 them te the Cocnirsion?

15 YF. STELI C.:

The transcripts 'themselves?

16 CHAIETAF AHEAENE:

?.* e s.

17

%R. STFLL0s To tell you the truth., I do not knov 18 how the transcripts get into the Cone.ission record one way 19 or the other.

.I have not submitted them in any way to the 20 Commissicn.

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t 21 CHAI?EAN AHEARNFs Dr. Feyers ' report, then, is

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22 based upcn our investigation.

At least there is a

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23,ree.sontble amount 24 MR. ST. ELL 0s There is infor'mation ar a result of l

25 documents that were uncovere,d as a result of cur P

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1 i'avertication which are referenced and includsd in that 2

report, that is,,ccrrect.

3 CHAltsA:: AMEAEN!s F? ve you reviewed.this report ?

2R. CTELLC4 I hive. '

4 g'e 5

CH7 3%AF 1.F E J RFI s Do you find any' detailed 6

infornation in his report that is s ufficien tly significantly 7

substantive to require you to redo your report?

8 MP. STELICs No.

I have a number of difficulties 8

with the report.

10 CEAIFEAN AHEAEFra 5:y question is, is there 5

11 sulstantive information that he has that you did not have, 12 so th3t you would f ec1 obliged to reopen your report?

13 LP.. STrilOs No.

14 CHAIFEAN AHEAEEEs Okay.

Fased upon that, then, I 15 reed his conclusions and I would like you to. compare his 16 conclusions v$th yours.

And I would like to understand the 17 differences.

18 The firrt conclurion is that the record shows that 19 TMI management did not provide state and federal officiels 20 inforestfon that was understood by them and necessary to t

21 assess accurately the condition of the reactor and the 22 likelihood of a major radiological release.

Fov, this 23 report is -- '.r.

Udall's report is seying that the record

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24 shows that management did not provide infermation that was 25 'unJerstood by ther.'.

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ME. ETELIC I h.evo discussed these conclusions 2

with Tr.

eyers.

It is not clear to me that th ese v

3 conclusions retair. contrary.

~t is clear to se that they-

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are now civing very serious consideration to changing ther.

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And as I'understsnd it, in the words that t. hey are'leanin'q

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6 tov'ard, si;nificant modifications with respect to the first

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CEA!5KAF AHEARNE:

All I can go cn, Vic, is the 9

lates set of changes.

I have a revision dated 1/22.

That 10 pzge is not revised.

11

'R. STEilCa I so veli aware of that.

12 CHAIEHAh AHE!.P N E:

This a.: pears to be our closing 13 meeting on this major report.

I ha he got to ask you.

This 14 does not sect to agree with the conclusion cf your report.

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15 KE. STFLL0s I think if you sill modify some of 16 the lan[uage in here slightly, specifically the isrue as.

17 un?.errtoed by ther 18 CEA:RMAN A HE1.RN E:

That is the key.

19 ER. STEL10s I think they are considering changing 20 that.

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21 CHAIBMAN AHEARNEa Vic, I am not asking you what 22 you understand they are going to do.

23

,1R. STELL0s With the exception of there words, T 24 agree with it.

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.25 C H A IP M A N' AHEARNE:

I have the draf t conclusion -

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HAS NOT BEH1 RELEASED TO PUBLIC 1

here and it says that the record shows ' hat the managetent 2

did nct grovide.. inf ormit,lon tha t vis ur.ders' toed by ther.

Do 3

you egree with thet conclusion?

4 NP. STFLLO:

No,.I do not.-

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5 CEAIEy A*: AHEAPNE:

All right.

6 gg, s;gtto Es y' I?

7 OEAIFtAE APEAEsEs Go ahc.sd.

8 ER. ETELI0s I want to make it clear I discussed 9

this tatter specifically with Dr. Keyers.

It'iF my 10 unferstandinc that, A, i: is clear they 'vant a report fhor 11 me, F, *medificatior, of the particular languace' that causes 12 me not t:o agree -- ! think our report would be in general 13 agreement if the words in that sente'nce " understood by them" f

14 were suitable c.cdified.

15 CH7 !?M t.N A!!E AEFE s Ihat could well be.

Eut I ha ve 16 in front of me a letter from the Chairman of the cuthcrizing 17 Committee in.the House for this agency.

% has enclored e 18 draf t and he has asked for the comments.

Ind I would te 19 remiss if I did not use the drsft I have from him and ask for thos',e ccamentF.,

20 21 ER. ETEL;LO:

Er. Chairman, I don't mean to 22 frustrate you.

Iamtryinhtogivearresponsiveananr.ver

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23 as I possibly can.

24 CEAIEliN AEEAENE:

The second conclusions The i

25 preponderance cf the evidence indicates thet such i

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1 inf orma tion vus intentionally withhold by TEI canegement 2

from stata enf federal officir.Is.

3 (At 2:56 p.r., Ccznissioner ?radford returnc? td 4

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cg Ayty A:j, AEg., :La That is'in direct disacreement, 5

6 with the conclusion that your report has cone out with.

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STELLO:

That is correct.

4 8

CH AIE.M A N Al!E ARNE s Put you say there was no 9

additional informatior, here tha t leadr you to at least chtnge your rE. port?'

10 11 EE. ETriLCa ho, I do not believe that the report 12-supporte that conclusion.

13 CE AILLAF. AEE AP.NEa khich repert?

14 YE. STEL10 T h.. repert that wa s subcitted tc you 15 under the letter you rcfe: red to from Concresrnan Udall.

16 CE;IEEAr. AEE AR::E s

.: o v, the last -- the last 17 I'm sorry, I did not mean tn cut you off.

18

.E. STEllba I don't know 19 C0Y. ISSIONEE HEND EIEa You coing to change that 20 one, t eo,7

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.ME. STELLO It is my underr.tanding in the 22 dircussions with Drs Eeyers that they are thinking of 23 rencving complete 13 that conclusion from the rerort and are direction.

Ecveier, es you have already 24 nov leaninc in that,

25 pointed out, the letter is fror Congressran Udall and they I-

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v naed t: reach these cc.nclurions thenet 3 ver, diccess this 1

.2 with Congrener.en "dall and reach a final conclusion on.that 3

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4 Fe har aise eske? n& to indicate th;t he har a

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5 personal opinien that scne sienificant information var' 6

knowincly withheld.

7 ca s, Igg; g pypAgggs Congresscan Udall?

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!R. ETELL0s Henry "syers' personal opinion.

9 O P. A l? !1, N AHEAENE:

I don't want to get into that.

10 It vts jast that you linked the "he" -- the last noun Vas 11

" Co n g re s s:s n t.M s 11.

12

+R. STFILO:

F.y understanding is richt now they 13 src considerine sni leanin; in the direction of dropping 14 that sentence.

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, cg;IEKAN 1.HFAFNE:

The inst conclucion l'r4 The 16 preponderance' cf the evidence indicates that the 1%I 17 managers presented to state and federal offi'cials risleading 18 statements and conveyed the 1e.pression that the accident was 19 substantially less severe than the situation varr=.nted, than 20 in f e et s',k ap t h e ca s e.

21 How do you feel that that conclusion fits with 22 respect to your report?

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23 ER. ETELLO:

I fael cur conclusion with regrrd to 24 inf ormation not passing on to the state is in substantial 25 agreement.

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1 CEA2::*AV ASF;ENT4 ti th thct conclucien?

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,, 3, - YE LI.C s With that ecnclusion with respect to

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3 the stete and federm.1 cfficiels.

I have to walk evay from 4

that because of the involvement FEC had ur at the sits.- I 5

could'make a' stronger conclusjon..With respect to the '<.

8 feferal officials, it is fsr from elect to me.

7 Eut I think we are in substantial agree rent.

8 CEAIEPAN AHEAEFEt Peter,.you were cut when I 9

sto.rted the questions.

I have thir letter from Er. Udall, which does asx ' us t o look h t this.

So I have asked --

10 11 C0%Y:SS!OWEP ERADFOTDs Ycu vent through page 477 12 Cl!A!EZAN AREAENEs I first vent through the 13 questions in r.

Udall's letter, in which he said -- Vic's 14 response was the regulatiens did require the reportino.

15 Yes, the feilure to report certain information did.

16 constitute a violation.

• hat is what the citation is.

17 And t'en, after some bandyice about, the fact 18 thet, whila ve could ask for the acney for the NP1, we do 19 have the authority.

And then I turned to the conclusions, 20 because' he' asked for the comments on this draf t report.

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21 since the' conclusions were different than the conclusions of 22 this report, I went through them.

23 COXXISSIONER BRADFOhD:

I was here for the last 24 two sentences, the first one, were you basically in i,

t 25 agreement, the first sentence.

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All ri;ht.

Joe, 167thino?.

8 C0Y2ISSIONEF HEEPRIEa N c '.'..

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11 CCUP.ISSIONEP PRADF05Ds No.

12 CE1.:F.! AF AEF5BNT.a. All right.

I guess where we 13

.a re, then, is tha t, Vic, you are goins to be co:r.ing. back te 14 us with a writeup of the citation, the. letter and so forth, 15 tha noti.ca of violation.

16 rp. F.;t:lCa Yer.

Ee vill try very herd.

I hope 17 ve can airo get comments ba ck very quickly, 'so we can take.

18 the ection.

I would like,to say that my proposal vill be 19 not to releese this report, to hold this report until the

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20 enf orcement package is ready and release the two together,

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21 rather.than~having one being separate from the other.

22 Ci! AILE AN 'AHE A REE s I think that is arpropriate.

23 Okey?

24 C0n. SSId:F,E ER ADFORD a.

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..We vi'11 get to. the Commissioners as 25.uc..'f.,.

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gga 1 to flow are in fact in existence, and that the people are 2 syste sad they do understand wha t it is that their jobs are 3 and how that informa' tion is to be processed through the 4 system to assure that it does get to the appropriata p1% 1s.

5 Let me emphasize, however, the most ppropriate', *,

e the most important, the most significant place for that 7 inf ormation is with the operating crew that is dealing with 8 the accident.

With respect to that issue there have been a i

9 large number of things that have been dore inside of the 10 control room, including putting in a safety parameter' 11 display system' to assist the Navy operators as well.

12 I don't want to go through my long list and 13 detract in ant var to say that the fact remains emphatically e.

14 that the licensee must do what is correct.

15 MR. 20ELLERt Well, in the House report it had ther 16 three codelusions which you have again shown on the slide.

17 The first one is that the THI managers did not communicate 18 information in their position that they understood to [e 19 related to the severity of the situation.

20 Did your investigation confirm this?

21 flR, STEL10s Yes, it did, and the enforcement 22 action that Nora referenced by specific citation is an 23 example of that kind of information.

s 24 ER. 50ELLER:

Well, then, I think that one of the 25 insic differences between rotar studies and those of the'.

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1 House Comnittees, the basic difference would be that their 2 report inplies that there was a villful withholding of 3 information and I think youi reports would imply that it was 4 due to conf usion._ Is that a fair assessnent as far as you

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8' HR. STEL10 If I reah the conclusion 11iself'I

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-g 7 don't believe it is necessary to reach the conclusion of 8 v111 fulness, and I have 'hed a large number 'of conversations 9 with the principal author of that report and it is my view

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10 that it is his view.

What the words say, I think, are,

11 obvious to each of us and each of,us may have a somewhat 12 different view.

13 57 reading of the words show consistency.' I have 14 struggled with this withholding, of intentional dissembling 15 and lying to the~ point where I think I have memorized the 16 definition of every word and synonya and derivation 17 thereto.

But I don't, at least in my reading of it, feel 18 com pelled to come to that conclusion. I guess each 19 individual who reads it will have to come to. his or her own

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20 conclusion.

% t 21 HR. HOELLE34 Well, thank you.

That's a very 22 clear and straightf orward answer.

23 3r. Zodans?

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24 NR. ZUDANSs I am not quite satisfied with putting e

j 25 aside the procedure.

As I read the procedure I would be m'.

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