ML20030E084
| ML20030E084 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 09/10/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20030E085 | List: |
| References | |
| FRN-45FR74493, REF-10CFR9.7, RULE-PR-170 SECY-81-502, NUDOCS 8109170402 | |
| Download: ML20030E084 (28) | |
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AFFIRMATION / DISCUSSION SESSION 81-33 3, e (Open to Public Attendance) 4 Thursday, September 10, 1981
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DISCLAIMER y-This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States
, '. *c; Nuclear Regulatory Comission held on september 10, 1981 in the i-lC Commission's offices at 1717 H Street, N.
W.',~ Washington, D'.' C.
The i ', ' -
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meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript t; '.
has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
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The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes.
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As provided by'10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal V '^
record of decision of the matters discussed.
Expressions of. opinion in
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this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs. No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in h'.,.
an'y proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument
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contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
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1 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
AFFIRMATION DISCUSSION SESSION 81-33 4
OPEN TO PUBLIC ATTENDANCE 5
6 7
=
Commissioners' conference koce 0
1717 H Street, N.W.
Washington, D. C.
g.
Thursday, September 10, 1981 11 The Commission met pursuant to notice at-4 iOS p.n'.,
12 Niinzio J. Palladino, Chairman cf the Commission, presiding.
14 PRESENT:
15 Chairman Palladino Commissioner Gilinsky 16 Commissioner Bradford Commissioner Ahearne 17 Commissioner Roberts 18 ALSO PRESENT:
S. Chilk, Secretary 19 L. Bickwit, General Counsel F. Remick, Office of Policy Evaluation 20 W. Dircks, Executive DirectGr for Operations N. Haller 21 T.
Rehm 22 23 24 25 t_
2 PROCEEDINGS y
2 CHAIREAN PALLADINO:
The meeting will please come to 3
order.
4 This is an affirmation / discussion session on the 5
number of iters that are listed on the agenda, and I'm going to ask the Secretary to walk us through each of those.
g MR. CHILK:
The items, as they appear on the agenda 7
schedule, the first one dealing with the proposed decontamination 3
of Dresden Unit 1, we notified you that had been deleted, and 9
it will be rescheduled next week.
0 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Which one is that?
MR. CHILK:
That is response to request for a hearing in the matter of proposed decontamination of Dresden, which we had previously advised that it was going to be taken off.
14 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Oh, yes.
15 MR. CHILK:
The second paper on the list deals with 16 457 and 457A -- 80-457/457A which is the EDO delegation of 17 authority.
18 Commissioners have voted on these matters, but I 19 believe the Chairman would like to discuss them.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, I think it is appropriate 2~1 to' discuss 457A and 457 in part, because there have been so 92 many suggested changes and there have'been drafts marked up
~
23 to such an extent that it ~is awfully difficult to follow
,4 what we would be approving were we to approve it.
25 As a matter of fact, on my own comment, I said:
OGC l
L L
I 3
1 should prepare a revised version of 457A incorporating some 2
changes that I would like to suggest, as well as language changes 3
which appear on what I believe to be the latest draft, and 4
reflect the comments that are either in that draft or come up 5
here, so that when we come to vote we start with a clean 6
document from which to work.
7 However, there were a couple of very basic questions 8
that were raised in 457A that particularly concerned a paragraph regarding the authority of the EDO on items not g.
expressly assigned to him.
We were given two options, an A and a B, and there was also a modification of B that was in the EDO original document.
The options were that the EDO would have authority 13 on any other matter or function explicitly assigned by the 14 Commission or the Chairman.
Any matter of function not 15 explicitly assigned to the EDO is reserved to the Commission or 16 the Chairman, as the case may be.
17 Then there was option B that says:
"Any matter or 18 function not' explicitly reserved or otherwise assigned by the 19 Commission or the Chairman, as the case may be..."
that would
'O mean that anything that we don't assiga to the EDO -- I'm sorry, 21 any item we did not rese ve for the Commission or the Chairman 22 would automatically go to the EDO.
23 I think that is one of the important items that we 24 ought to address and see what kind of thoughts various people have, 25 Then there was another division that I understand that was at
4 1
issue earlier and that was whether any question of policy should 2
g to the Commission or whether significant questions of p licy go to the Commission.
3 Then there was a basic issue having to do with approval 4
by the Commission of particular levels of contracts, dollar a
levels of Contracts.
I think if we had a focus on these items, we might be in a position to have the OGC write something that, at least, would be a starting poin't for the comments when we come to vote 9-on that.
10 I'll start the discussion on the first items, and 11 then anyone can chime in at the appropriate time.
I gather 12 that many Commissioners look at Option A, now going to the 13 Options A and B, as one that would give restricted authority 14 to the EDO, and Item B as giving broad authority to the EDO.
^5 1
I also understand from talking to some of the 16 Commissioners that really Item \\ is giving stonger problems --
7 1
stronger authority to the Chairman rather than to the EDO.
18 My own feeling was that we should try to be consistent with the 19 Reorganization Plan, and so I suggested a modification of 20 Item A in consultation with John ( Ahearne) -- I don' t want to 21 saddle him with approving this -- which would say in place of 22 Item A:
"The EDO has authority to perform u.s1 other matter. " --
23 I'm sorry -
"... have authority to perform any other matter 24 or function explicitly assigned by the Commission or the 25 Chairman.
Any matter or function not explicitly assigned to the t
1
7 5
1 EDO is reserved to the Chairman unless otherwise delegated to 2
the Commission'by the Reorganization Pl At least that 3
clears it up for me.
That is what I would propose on that, 4
but I would like to get other opinions.
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
How does that differ from 6
A7 7
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
It is a modification of A.
8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But why is' it different?
A, 9
you would not take any powers away from the Chairman.
What.I 10 take you to be saying is that either the Chairman or the 11 Commission have whatever authority the law gives them ---
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: That's right.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
-- and the Executive Director 13 has whatever authority he has been given by the Commission
,4 with the Chairman respectively, depending on what it is you la, are talking about.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: It is my variation of Item A so that I understand it.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think if I understand it 19 correctly, I don't have any problem with that.
If I understand 20 it in the same sense that I understood A.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, that was the problem that 22 I was having with A.
I maybe don't have as much background 23 as you, in fact, co the Reorganization Act.
24 COMMISSIONER BRADFCitD:
Joe, would it alter the 25
.I
6 1
Proposition in your vi,ew in any way if you just switched the words " Commission" and " Chairman" in yeur formulation?
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Say that again.
3 i
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Supposing you just switched 4
the words " Commission" and " Chairman" in your formulation?
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
... is reserved to the 6
Commission unless otherwise delegated to the Chairman."
7 Well, no.
I think the way it is-worded in the Reorganization Act that '-- there are very specific things delegated to the Commission and everything else is left to the 10 Chairman, as I understand the Reorganization Act.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
And that is why I chose these 13 words.
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I agree with Joe's formulation.
15
{
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Because if Victor's 16 proposition is true, it shouldn't make any difference.
~7 1
CHAIRMAN 'ALLADINO:
Well, except that the way the 18 Reorganization Plan is written, it gives very specific authority 19 to the Commission, and it says everything else is to the 20 Chairman.
That is why ---
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well they are listed, but l
l 22 they are fairly broad cttegories, and.---
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23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I also agree that anything that 24 the Commission wants to do, it will do, it can vote on it.
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25 I agree they are broad, and I was just trying to ---
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1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, let me put it to you 2
this way, I didn't see our delegation to the Executive Director 3
affecting the boundary between the Commission and the Chairman.
So whatever is the Chairman's is the Chairman's, 4
5 and whatever is the Commission's is the Commission's, and whatever is delegated by either of them to the effect of the Executive 6
Director is the Executive Director's.
7 Here he is now.
(Mr. Dircks entered the room.)
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
That's what I was going fcr.
This came out of my discussions with John.
I had 11 questions because I didn't feel quite comfortable with A, and 12 therefore, I was leaning with B, but after he pointed out that 13 with a change in A, I could have a better understanding of what 14 I wanted.
This came out of my discussions with him.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Fine, I'm in agreement with 16 you.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I'm not asking for votes.
18 I think we need a cleaned-up document before we 19 vote.
If you would not mind this being as a basis for the 20 next draft, that would be all right.
21 COMLISSIONER GILINSKY:
(Nods in the affirmative.)
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Any other comments on that?
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
No. I may suggest a modification 24 if one occurs to me, but I don't mind your going ahead on it.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What we are trying to do is to
S 1
prepare an improved draft that we might have a better chance of 2
understanding, 3
COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
This might not be an 4
appropriate time, but I'm slightly hard of hearing, and I cannot hear what is being said.
Is there.nything that can be 5
done about this amplification?
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes, I think that is a good 7
suggestion.
~
COMMISSlONER dILINSKY:
Yes, we can try and speak up.
g COMMISSIONSR ROBERTS:
That would be quite helpful.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
But I'm not sure the amplification is all that great either.
I have difficulty hearing also.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I have a tendency to mumble, 13 so I will try ---
14 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
That is an accurate statement.
15 Not a criticism, but an accurate statement.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I will try to avoid that.
17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
You are depriving us of our 18 last way to~ defeat the Sunshine laws, you know.
19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
On the second point, I understand 20 there was considerable discussion earlier on the question of 21 whether only significant questions of policy come to the 92 Commission or whether any question of policy comes to the
~
23 Commission.
1 24 I must say that if it is a question of policy, it 25 ought to be significant on the face of it, but I would not --
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I would probably prefe,r the "significant," but if it said, 2
"... questions of policy..." I would automatically assume 3
they are significant.
I don't know what your ---
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I will speak to a slight 5
nuance.
I see it possible to say that everything that the Commlasion does and everything that every agent of the 6
7 Commission does, is a policy question, or had embedded in it g
some aspects of policy.
I did not want to put the EDO in a situation of having a charter which could be interpreted as g
everything he does or she does, and every issue that he or she faces has to come to the Commission because it is a policy question,and the charter says that should be referred to the 12 Commission.
13 The word "significant" just provides a little bit 14 i
of flexibility there so that when we -- if we at some point say 15 to the EDO:
"Why didn't you sent this up?"
We have to have 16 in our own minds looked at it and decide, that is an important I.
17 question.
To try to build in some level or
- hreshold should f
I 18 be there any way, into the charter, and I am in favor of p
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putting in "significant."
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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
What about saying " Commission E
E 21 policy..." in there.
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22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That'is everything the N
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Commission does.
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24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Oh, no.
Come on.
We are k
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grown up people.
You are not going to interpret this in a a
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ridiculous way, and the line is going to be drawn by the 2
practice that we follow.
If it turns out that there are some 3
items that we think should have been brought up that weren't, 4
we will mention that, if there were some items that were brought 5
up that shouldn't be, we will mention that.
Just by that 6
interaction over time we arrive at a balance and people understand roughly where that is.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, there could be questions g
f Policy that relate to control of travel within the EDO's 9
Peration, say, Geez, that's a matter of policy.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: That is why I was going to suggest "... Commission policy..." in there.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
But we might not agree it is significant.
He may say, well, I don't think that is 14 significant enough to take to the Commission.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
But there is always a boundary 16 problem, even if you put 5 qualifications in there, you are 17 still going to have a gray area, and there are some items 18 that may go'up, maybe they don't go up and ---
19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
No, but if you put "... questions 20 of policy..."
that means anything that has a policy implication, 2^'
he would have to bring up.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
We l'1, I agreed with your 23 earlier remark that policy implies a level of importance.
o CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes, I know.
25 My own feeling would be to go with "...significant..."
.a 11 1
for the reference draf,t that we are trying to prepare.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It sounds like that is what 3
the majority wants to do.
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
On the third point we have had various limits suggested for obtaining Commission approval on 5
contracts.
At first, I leaned toward having a limit, actually 6
having read one of the drafts where there was $750,000 put in 7
as the limit.
I think that was per year.
g i
I was ready to approve that until I understood better.
g The extensive process that is involved in approving contracts and I don't know where this came from, but I think it came from 11 the staff, showing all of the steps that have to be taken in 12 getting approval for a cop. tract.
It comes on with the incoming 13 request and then there is a path for commercial and a path for 14 interagency.
The Commission is shown on this chart, at least 15 six -- now they are not all sequential, but in some cases they 16 are sequential.
It seems to me that except for those contracts 17 that really have to be approved by law, it would be better if 18 we didn't have any limit.
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I don't remember any 20 contract coming up to us six times, unless it was because it 21 was poorly executed.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
No, I'say there are six places 23 on this chart where the C'mmission is the interacting ---
o 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Gee, I would like to hear l
25 about that.
l L
12 1
CHAIRMAN PAL,LADINO:
I guess the best thing to do 2
is make copies for each one of you.
It may be that you all 3
have copies.
4 Norm, do you know if everybody got copies?
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
As far as I know, these things 5
me UP once.
6 MR. HALLER:
I don't think they did.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, then we ought to make it g
a normal ---
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Norm, are you familiar with this?
l 11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Norm, where did that come from?
12 MR. HALLER:
It came from Tom Rehm ---
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Tom, can you explain this thing?
14 MR. REEM:
That chart was done very rapidly.
It is 15 a simple chart and it was done fairly rapidly to give the 16 Chairman some ideal of what the contracts were about.
17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
But are there six times a 18 cor. tract comes up for approval?
I 19 MR. REEM:
No.
There are three separate kinds of l
20 contracts.
Th'ose which are DOE interagency, some go through 21 CSRB, some do not, some come to the Commission.
The circled 22 ones indicate those that come to the. Commission.
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Oh, maybe I misunderstood 24 what you were doing. What you are saying is it isn't that a 25 single contract comes up to us six different ways, you are saying
.r n_w 13 1
there are six ways a c,ontract might appear before the 2
Commission, each one appearing once.
3 MR. REHM: There are six different types of contracts.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Sorry, I misunderstood what 3
it was all about.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: But the Commission is pretty 7
prevalent on that chart.
g COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
All I can say is, leaving aside where one ought to draw the boundaries, that there have been a number of sizeable contracts that have come up to the Commission that the Commission has commented on, 11 I thought very usefully, with considerable savings in money.
12 That is the sum and substance of what I have to say.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
14 With regard to this chart, I will make sure you all get a copy of it immediately after the 1
l 15 meeting or before the end of the day, so that you can consider a
16 it, if and in whatever way you would like to consider it.
17 I don't know what other -- What was your feeling, 18 Vic, or Peter?
I 19 t
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I have already voted on that f
20 issue, among the many others.
As I recall my vote was to have 21 the Commission set contract policy and then let the EDO and k
22 the Chairman implement that policy which would be, except i
23 where specific requirements have been placed on us by the E
24 Congress, I would assume the EDO, under the Chairman's guidance, 7
25 will carry that policy out.
So the review of contracts would i
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14 1
be done on the line management side.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Are you counting on the 3
Chairman doing them?
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would count on the Chairman 4
and the EDO to do the review that is necessary, depending upon
-s the magnitude of the contract.
I would not, for example, 6
expect the Chairman to review every contract that is issued
/
by the agency, just as I wouldn't expect the EDO to, because there are some contracts that are very small.
There are others that as they get to be more major, I would assume rise to the 10 level of the EDO, then some that would rise to the level of 11 the Chairman.
But I think that is a line management responsi-12 bility and would leave it there.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I notice in this one draft, 14 and I suffer from the fact that or maybe I benefit from the 3-
~~
fact that I wasn' t here for all of the -- I notice in one of 16 the places there was a write-in number of $750,000.
I don't 17 know whose number that was.
^8 1
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
My number.
19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think it was Victor's 20 originally.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Vic tor '.s.
22 You would rather see a number in?
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would, you know, whether it 24 is that or $1 million or whatever, but -- Of course, what 25 happens is if the contracts get smaller ---
L
15 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Now, when you say a million 2
r $750,000, is that per year or what?
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I don't know what we said, I think it was per contract.
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I thought it was per contract.
5 MR. BICKWIT: That's the way I read it.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is it appropriate to ask the EDO how many million dollar contracts we have if we wanted to go to a million dollar limit?
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes, sure.
10 MR. DIRCKS:
I would have to get the numbers. It is 11 a substantial number if you look at the DOE numbers too, so I 12 will have to supply that to you.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Oh, I think I have got that.
14 MR. REHM:
Sir, I thought the numbers were on that 15 chart.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes.
Well, I have a little
^7 1
problem with the chart, because it says:
" Greater than one 18 million,"'.then it says:
"Less than 500K,"
but it says in 19 fiscal year, so I guess I did understand at the end.
20 We h've got to go over here to DOE agency. Greater a
21 than one million we have had, this says, five contracts.
22 This is commercial.
This is ---
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
There are five here.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes, and there is one here.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
So that would be a total of six
16 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0: Do you have any thoughts, Tom?
2 COMMISSIGNER ROBERTS:
I agree with John's 3
Philosophy.
CHAIPMAN PALLADINCs Peter?
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
As a matter of pure 5
6 Philosophy, if one can use that term in the context of ntracts, I agree with John as well.
On the other hand, 7
ur Practical experience has been, I think as Victor described 8
it, there have been a number of contracts that have come up g
to our attention and have contained items that were of 10 sufficient concern that the Commission has reacted and made a 11 contribution.
12 I suppose what I would be most comfortable with is 13 stating the philosophy one way and then just saying the 14 Commission regards this area as important enough that it is 15 going to monitor it for at least a while.
But in any case I 16 would want the end result to be we went on looking at contracts 17 above a certain size until I were more comfortable with the 18 overall contracting processes.
19 CHAIRNAN PALLADINO:
Let me ask you a question:
20 When the contract is issued, it could be -- I know this is after the fact, but at least it is a post-audit -- the 22 Commissioners would get copies or weicertainly could arrange 23 that.
24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Could, yes, it is not the 25 current practice.
17 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Also, the Chairman could report 2
peri dically on the status of the contracts and make that separate of this EDO authority.
3 Well, I gather at least we want this that way.
Why 4
don't we write up this draft and make it as another item to be 5
taken up as a matter of policy; the interaction between the 6
Chairman and the Commission then the contracts, so the Commission doesn't -- so that we don't lose the henefit of 8
input by the Commission.
9 Now, I'm not sure which is the best draft from which 10 to work.
I wts handed this and said, this was the OGC 11 revision and it is marked 457A.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That is the latest.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, can we agree to have the
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OGC prepare a clean draft incorporating some of these thoughts
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that have developed today?
l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Sure.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I guess we are through with the 13 discussion of 457A.
19 MR. CHILK:
The next item on the Affirmation list 20 is81-421 which is modifications to the immediate effectiveness 21 rule with regard to fuel loading and low-power operating 22 licenses, and I believe the Chairman would like to discuss 23 this one as well.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Let's see, I can't find my 421 25 here.
1
18 1
Well, I deliberated at great length on this and 2
finally came down with the idea that the Coinmission should 3
probably maintain, at least for the present time, and I'm 4
told as we get more experience with the flood of cases we are given, that the Comnission should retain some hand in the 5
immediate effectiveness decision.
6 So I went along with this with the request that it 7
be 30 days instead of 45, as we have.
However, on reflection g
and in discussion with some of my staff, they pointed out 9,
that we could get in to some long delays if we get to tie 0
votes or we are not able to act for other reasons.
I wanted to get reaction, and I know it is a late reaction,:to saying that upon receipt of the hearing board notice, if it were a favorable decision that the decision be effective within -- at 14 the end of 30 days unless previously voted or stayed by the 15 Commission vote.
16 This says that if we get a two-to-two vote, then 17 the decision would be approved.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What happens if the Commission 19 doesn't vote at all?
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, then it would be approved.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, the thing that bothers 22 me about that is, again, the Commission can simply stand aside 23 and the whole point of this from my point of view ---
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I was only trying_to cover the 25 situation where there was a prolonged delay in reaching a b_
c
e 19 1
decision.
I am willin,g to refine the words to assure you 2
that the Commission gives attention to it.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, I'm certainly willing to increasc.our commitment to act within 30 days.
I don't 4
know what we could do except say that we will do everything we 5
can to vote within that period.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
No, I was trying to avoid a 7
two-to-two decision denying a license, and-requiring that if
.g a two-to-two decision comes about that the license is granted.
g COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes, I see your point, Joe, and I think it is a valid one.
That is, it isn't so much the 30 days there as the two-to-two situation carrying out 12 indefinitely---
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You are specifically dealing 14 with that vote possibility?
15 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Yes.
16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: -- What you really want is l
17 something that states what a two-to-two vote means, and you i
18 are suggesting that'.it should mean that the decision of the 19 lower board is allowed to become effective.
I think that is 20 probably right', as a practical matter, s!.nce a two-to-two vote 21 would mean that in any other context.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is that what it means?
Maybe I i
1 23 don't need it.
Maybe I should ask legal.
24 COMMISSIONER "RADFORD: Well, I hadn't thought about 25 it in this context, and I don't know whether OGC has.
l u
u
20 1
MR. BICKWIT:
Well, the way it is now phrased, it 2
takes a majority to issue the license.
A two-to-two vote, 3
under my reading of the rule as drafted has the license unissued.
So that you do need something, if you want that 4
li ense to issue in the event of a two-to-two vote.
The way 5
it is now drafted the license will not issue under those circumstances.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: And I was trying to turn it around.
I thought this was a good time to discuss it, because we don't--
except possibly on travel, we don't have ---
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You would feel that having 11 to issue on two-to-two would be basically consistent with ---
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, it is certainly what 13 happens to every other -- in every other situation in which 14 we review a lower board decision, that is, a two-to-two vote 15 affirms it.
My only hesitancy is that I wouldn't think you 16 would want to be in a situation where a two-to-two vote in 17 a situation where it was clearly a transitory situation would 18 produce a result just because 30 days had run out.
19 CHAIRMAN PALLDINO:
No, I was trying to cover the 20 tie vote that'would lead to a prolonged delay.
21 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think that offhand tnat I 22 don't see a reason for a different result here.
If~anybody 23 does, I would listen to it.
It seems to me that you do have 24 to have a mechanism that does speak to the meaning of a tie 25 vote, and I don't, offhand, see a reason why it ought to be
l 21 1
different here than it is in other ---
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, except that the 3
interpretation as it exists now is that a two-to-two vote would hold off a decision ---
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, I'm agreeing with you.
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
So I was going to suggest'that 6
any comments that might be -- rather than my trying to devise 7
the system, I ask the OGC to work up something that would
.g accomplish that without' appearing to stick on the 30 days.
In other words, if the Commission finds itself needing 40 days, I wasn' t trying to say it has to be in 30.
11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
The other side of the coin 12 is that you would hate to sort of have the first two-to-two 13 vote that came up trigger the issuance of the license.
That 14 isn't what you mean either.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
So would it be agreeable to 16 ask the General Counsel to write something up that assures that 17 a two-to-two vote would not deny the license.
That is what I 18 was trying to get to.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
That's all right.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Which means what after 22 30 days?
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Well, if the Commission takes 24 40 days ---
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I know, if it is two-to-two---
(
u
1 22 4
1 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Do you mean that is then 2
the final Commission. vote,it is two-to-two ---
3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes, that's right.
Depending on how you define " final."
4 MR. BICKWIT:
That's difficult.
5 i
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, that's what Len is going 6
to have to come up with.
7 MR. BICKWIT:
The answer isn't immediately apparent.
i
. g CHAIRMAN PALL'DINO: I don't think the Commission A
9-should have less than 30 days if it has got -- suppose everybody votes after the 15th day and you have got two-to-two 11 and then after some more discussion it comes back and has some i
I 12 other ideas.
I think we ought not to constrain it to the 13 first vote.
At least give them whatever time we say is here, 14 unless it is a favorable decision.
15 Well, that's why I wanted to bring it up rather than 16 to ask for a vote.
Okay?
l Want to go on to the next item?
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: So we will defer taking a 19 vote then until we see that.
20 You'might explain 'to the people sitting over in the 21 corner there that we are not voting today.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
We are not voting on SECY-81-421.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Can we settle one other issue, 24 though in tha.t context now.
I take it in any case, even if 25 we had voted or when we next do, it isn't contemplated that u.
u
23 1
this will apply to Diablo and TMI.
2 CRAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Oh, no.
That is out.
3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Diablo and TMI, I think, 4
we have agreed ---
MR. CHILK:
I think all of you have agreed that it 5
w uld not apply.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
-- that it would not apply 7
to that.
g CHAIRMAN PALLhDINO: It would not apply to Diablo Canyon or TMI-l Restart.
MR. BICKWIT:
May I raise one related issue.
Would 11 the Commission want to provide for an exemption mechanism so 12 that in the future other Diablos and TMI could be taken out 13 from under ---
14 CHAIRMAN PALLIDANO:
Yes, I was going to add that.
15 I think I had some words in my other proposal that said 16 something about -- It would not apply to Diablo Canyon, TMI-l 17 Restart or any other ---
18 MR. BICKWIT: Except as otherwise ordered by the 19 Commission in exceptional circumstances.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Right.
Exceptional or 21 extraordinary cases.
22 Do you have the sense of that?
23 MR. BICKWIT:
Yes, I have the sense of that.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Okay, Sam, would you like to 25 go on to the other items.
24 1
MR. CHILK:
The next one is SECY-81-494, Integrated 2
Operational Experience Reporting System.
The Commission has unanimously approved with 3
modifications suggested by Commissioners Ahearne and Gilinsky.
4 In advan n tice of rulemaking it would inform the public that 5
the Commission plans to defer rulemakirq to establish an 6
integrated operational experience reporting system and instead 7
will develop a proposed rule to modify the existing LER reporting requirements.
Commissioner Gilinsky agreed to that unanimously.
10 Would you please' affirm your votes?
11 (Chorus of ayes.)
12 MR. CHILK:
The next item is81-501, Psychological 13 Impacts in the TMI-l Restart Proceeding.
14 The Commission is being asked to decide whether the 15 issues related to psychological distress and community fears are tc 16 be considered by the Licensing Board in the TMI Restart 17 Proceeding.
18 A majority of the Commission, the Chairman, 19 Commissioners Ahearne and Roberts have voted that the Board 20 should not consider psychological impact.
Commissioner
~
21 Bradford would have the Board consider psychological impacts.
22 Commissioner Gilinsky would desire the views of the Commonwealth 23 of Pennsylvania before voting, in view of the period of time 24 which has passed.
25 Would you please affirm your votes?
e
25 1
(Chorus of ayes.)
2 MR. CHILK:
The next one is SECY-81-502, Fees for 3
Withdrawn Applications for Power Reactors ---
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
May I ask a question on that?
5 How is that issue now going to be resolved?
MR. BICKWIT:
We will have to draft an order to 6
that effect.
7 MR. CHILK:
SECY-81-502, Fees for Withdrawn g
Applications for Power Reactor Construction Permits, Operating Licenses, and Other Approvals or Reviews.
The Commission has unanimously approved a final rule which would require fees for the review of power reactor license applications in the 12 case work.
The application is subsequently withdrawn.
13 Would you please affirm your vote?
14 (Chorus of ayes.)
15 MR. CHILK:
The last one, SECY-80-160A/168A, Rule-16 making to Incorporate in 10 CFR Part 2, APA's Military and
~7 1
Foreign Affairs Exception to Adjudications.
18 There was a request, at one time for a discussion, 19 but it does not appear that that request is still current.
20
~
A majority of the Commission with Commissioners Gilinsky and 91 Bradford dissenting have approved the proposed rule change a3 22 modified by the Chairman, and Commissioner Roberts which 23 incorporates the military'and foreign affairs exception of 24 the APA into the Commission's adjudicatory procedures.
25 Commissioner Gilinsky's dissent was really a L
26 1
request for deferring, action until the matter were better 2
defined.
Would you please affirm your votes?
4 (Chorus of ayes.)
5 MR. CHILK:
That concludes the affirmation.
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Anything else that shou.14 come 6
before the Commission today?
7 Let's stand adjourned.
- g (Whereupon, the Commission was adjourned at 4:40 p.m.)
g.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
.