ML20028C367

Unofficial Transcript of 821222 Public Discussion/Possible Vote in Washington,Dc Re Indian Point Shutdown Order. Pp 1-15

ML20028C367
Person / Time
Site:	Indian Point
Issue date:	12/22/1982
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8301070403
Download: ML20028C367 (18)

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. (202) 628-9300

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WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001

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1 UNITED ST ATES OF AMERICA 2

NUCLFtd REGULATORY CONHISSION 3

4 5

DISCUSSION /POSSIBLE VOTE ON ACTIONS 2

6 IN REGARD TO INDIAN POINT 7

8 9

PUBLIC MEETING 10 11 12 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Room 1130 13 1717 H Street, N. W.

j g Washington, D. C.

14 Wednesday, December 22, 1982 15 16 The Commission convened, pursuant to notice, at 17 5:22 p.m.

18 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:

19 NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission 20 YICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner JOHN AHEARNE, Commissioner 21 IHOMAS HOBERTS, Commissioner JAHES ASSELSTINE, Commissioner 22 23 '

(_,

24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

%)

A.

DISCLAIMER

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This is. an ' unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States.

Nuclear Regulatory Comission held on oncembei-22, 1982 in the Cocurf ssion's offf ces at 1717 H 5treet, 5. W., Wasnington, D. C.

The insating was open to public attendance and observation.

This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.

The transcHpt is intended solely for general infomationai purposes As. provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the fodnal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed.

Expressions of op. inion in

~3this. transcript do not necessariTy reflect finai deteminations or '

baTiefs No pTeading or other paper may be filed wittr the Qomission in

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- any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument contained herein,. except as the Coundssion may auttiorize.

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1 EE9 GEED 159E 2

CHAIRMAN PALLADINos The meeting vill please

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3 come to order.

4 This is a continuation of our meeting on 5

emergency preparedness with regard to the Indian Point 6

facility, and this is the public portion of that meeting.

7 With regard to Indian Point, the Commission 8

has decidad that no shutdown order or other enforcement 9

action is needed it this time.

The decision was a three 10 to two decision and each of the Commissioners will 11 probably give you an indication of their comments after 12 I as through.

13 Several considerations led us to this 14 conclusion.

s 15 First, substantial progress has been made 16 since last July and additional progress will be made in 17 the coming months.

18 FEHA has concluded that the remedial actions 19 that have been accomplished and those scheduled in the 20 next few months constitute off-site plans that will be 21 feasible and capable of implementation.

22 Noreover, it is very unlikely that a severe 23 accident in these few months until March or April of '83 24 while progress continues.

25 The Consission concludes that operation of ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.

400 VIRGINTA AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

1 3

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Unit 2 during this interia period will pose no undue 2

risk to the gublic health or safety.

We note that Unit 3

3 is not planned to go back on line until March or April 4

of 1983.

5 Second, FEMA and the State of New York are 6

working on the concern that there may be a bus driver 7

problem in Westchester County.

Compensating measures l

8 are proposed whi,ch would probably be adequate in many l

9 accident scenarios.

l 10 Noreover, even in the event evacuation would 11 prove infeasible because of the lack of drivers and 12 delayed State response, many members of the public would 13 share transportation by carpooling and sheltering

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14 without transportation could prove to be the most 15 effective dose reduction measure in any event.

16 There are now couaitments from Rockland County 17 to solve a probles there by cooperating with State and I

l 18 Federal officials in developing a plan.

FEMA hopes to 1g have a workable Rockland plan in early 1983.

20 FEHA has stated, and I quote, 'FEHA staff has l

21 been most impressed with the recent efforts of the 22 Rockland County officials to become active participants 23 in the process."

24 The seriousness of this deficiency must be

,'j 25 viewed in light of two considerations.

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA' AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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1 First, there is a State plan calling for State 2

officials to take over country functions in the event 3

that the country does not f ulfill them.

Though Rockland

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4 officials believe that this plan is inadequate, FEMA 5

notes that the State plan should be recognized.

6 Second, we recognize, as did FEMA in its 7

briefing of the Commission, that Federal approval of 8

plans is not a mandatory prerequisite for effective 9

emergency response in every case.

Though less or to different than what Federal authorities might prefer, 11 State plans and ad hoc responses have in many cases 12 proved sufficient in the past.

13 Finally, all the remaining problems relate to State and local governments and their role in off-site 14 15 response.

The problems are beyond the power of the 18 licensee to control.

Thus, there is.no question here of 17 penalizing licensees f or violations of other improper 18 conduct on their part.

19 Our regulations allow but do not mandate 20 immediate shutdown of the Indian Point units.

We do not 21 believe that the planning standard defici?ncies noted by 22 FEMA varrant immediate shutdown.

23 A cco rdingly, we have decided that no 24 enforcement action is required at this time.

However, 25 the Commission vill continue to monitor the progress l

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L; ALDEt4 son REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (2021 554-2345 l

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1 that is ande.

FEMA has advised that an exercise vill be 2

conducted in March and it will be providing the 3

Commission with an update on the status of planning and 7,

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4 preparedness within 30 days thereafter.

5 The status of emergency planning vill be 6

revisited by the Commission upon receipt of FEMA's 7

evaluation in the March.1983 exercise for Indian Point.

8 In the interia FEMA is asked to present to the 9

Commission monthly reports on the status of Rockland 10 County planning and training on the plans being 11 developed, the status or resolution of the bus driver 12 issue in Westchester County and any other energency 13 preparedness issues that arise as work goes forward.

14 Now I believe each of the Commissioners will 15 have additional remarks.

I will further amplify in my 16 additional remarks the reasons for my voting in this way.

17 Another important point that I make in my 18 additional remarks is that I believe the planning and is training must be completed before a useful exercise can 20 be held.

Since the principal issue in this regard is 21 the state of development of the Rockland County plan, 22 Bockland County should complete its plan before the 23 March 1983 exarcise is conducted.

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24 At this time I will turn to my colleagues and 25 given them an opportunity to make whatever statements ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

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1 they would like.

2 Why don't I continue with those who voted in 3

favor.

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4 Commissioner Ahearne.

5 COMNISSIONER AHEARNEs No emergency plan has 6

been more difficult to develop than the one for the area 7

around Indian Point.

These difficulties stem from the 8

very large population surrounding the plants and the 9

unusual multi-government involvement that is required to 10 develop successful plans.

The reluctance of Rockland 11 County for many sonths to participate is an example of 12 the type of difficulty.

13 The basic concept of emergency planning is to i

14 develop procedures and ensure the availability of 15 necessary resources in order to adequately handle a very 16 low probability but potentially high consequence 17 accident.

18 FEMA, the NRC, the State of New York, the four 19 surrounding counties, the two utilities and the public 20 hcVe been struggling with the question of whether 21 adequate emergency plans can be developed for Indian 22 Point.

There are many who believe they cannot and 23 consequently argue those plants should not be allowed to 24 operate.

There are some who believe the plans are 25 already adequate.

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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1 I believe, and I believe my position is shared 2

by many of the various government representatives, that 3

planning in this situation is very difficult and that we fs!

4 do not yet have assurance that the plans will work, but 5

that substantial progress has been made over the last 6

several years.

7 Yesterday in our meeting both the Deputy 8

Director of FEMA and the FEM A Regional Administrator 9

stressed that substantial progress.

Three years ago l

10 there was essentially no planning.

Four months ago the 11 coebined eff ort had produced plans, but those plans had 12 deficiencies and 34 open items were identified.

13 Testerday FEMA reported that the 34 had been 14 reduced to five, one problen concerning bus driver 15 availability in Westchester County and four problems 16 concerning Rockland County.

17 Most of the surrounding population is in these 18 two counties.

Concerns about Westchester County have 19 been decreasing rapidly under the planning efforts, but 20 the planning concerns have been reduced to this one 21 issue, but an issue that has been constant over the many I

22 months of work and it is time to reach a resolution 23 regarding a mechanism to provide adequate bus

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24 transportation.

25 He have received mixed signals concerning ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

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__ pas 1

Rockland County.

FEEA has indicated substantial

.2 progress has been made and has said they hope to receive 3

a Rockland County emergency plan early next year.

On 4

tha other hand, the Vice Chairman of the Rockland County 5

Legislature in a recent letter to us indicated there are 6

many steps that have to be taken prior to approval of 7

tha county emergency plan that is being developed.

8 Since Rockland County represents a substantial 9

portion of the people within a 10-mile zone of Indian 10 Point, it is essential that adequate planning be done 11 for that country.

12 Now I believe that the adequate interim 13 compensating actions or other compelling reasons, two k.

14 phrases from our regulations, I believe tha t our 15 regulations called for are met in this case.

They 16 consist of, first, the substantial improvement that has 17 been made during the running of the 120-day clock, and 18 that improvement is evidenced by the reduction from 34 19 to 5 open items, and then, second, the plans developed 20 by the State of New York regarding the use of State 21 personnel for emergency duties in Rockland County and 22 for National Guard personnel to be used as bus drivers 23 in Westchester County, if that is necessary.

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24 Some vill argue that FEMA has addressed only 25 planning and not implementation and as a consequence ALDERSoN REPo88 TING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHWGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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1 they argue we should not have any confidence in 2

energency preparedness at Indian Point.

However, FEMA 3

noted in their letter of December 17th to our Executive (I

4 Director that the 120-day time frame in NRC's 5

regulations is not keyed to the FEMA planning and a

preparedness process and hasn't been adequate to 7

encompass all of the actions necessary.

l 8

In particular, FEHA has expressed the view tha 9

FENA cannot reach a conclusion on preparedness until the

'O exercise scheduled for next Harch has been held.

Thus, 11 I believe the primary significance of FEMA's focus on 12 planning is that it has been unable to complete the 13 steps necessary to evaluate implementation and not that 14 it has reached adverse conclusions.

15 In fact, at our meeting FEHA indicated that 16 not only is the plan feasible, but it is capable of 17 implementation.

Consequehtly, in light of the progress 18 tha t has been made, the low probability of requiring use 19 of the plans within the next four months, and I note 20 that for most of this time only of the two plants is 21 scheduled to operate, and in light of the planned 22 energency exercise, I as willing to allow operation of 23 the plants for now.

24 This has been a very close judgment.

I wish 25 to revisit the issue one month after the exercise and

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (2021 554 2345

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1 certainly no later than the end of April. 'Atithat time ve should have FEMA's evaluation of "the erebcise, as 2

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3 vell as a resolution of the Westchester County bu$

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4 driver issue and approved Rockland County energency g,

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plans.

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6 If these do not occur, et present I do~ not IL 7

believe I would support continued operation of the bd 5

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CHAIRNAN PALLADINot Cornissio'ndrRoberts.

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5 I agree with the I

l 10 COHHISSIONER ROBERTS:

4 11 finding by the Commission majority'.

I have no furthek, g,

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12 comments to make.

I do have additional views that have G,~

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'l 13 been reduced to writing to be attached to the mesorendum.

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CHAIREAN PALLADINO All right.

Thank you.

14 N

15 Commissioner Gilinsky.

3s 16 COMMISSIONER GILIMSKYa I have some'bridf'

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17 views, about a page and a half, which I have attached'do 18 the Commission's opinion decision and I will read then

't 19 in their entirety.

I 20 The Indian Point nuclear power plant should 21 not be allove?

o perate until the Federal Erecgency 22 M an agener t yes has advised this Commission that in i

23 the words af our tepulations there is reasonable I

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24 assurance that adequate protective measures can and will 25 be taken in the event of a radiological energency.

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l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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-The State and counties performed so poorly in 2

the Indian Point emergency exercise earlier this year 3

that the Commission had to initiate a four-month 4

recedial period.

Indian Point is the only nuclear power 5

plant site in the United States for which this was 6

necessary.

The four-month period ended December 3rd, 7,,1982.

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8 Under our regulations the Commission must nov e

assess the situation and decide whether the plant should

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.y' N10 continue to operate.

This is the second time the s

11 ' Commission has had to initiate such a remedial period at e

n iIndian Point.

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'13 The previous one was triggered by deficiencies 3

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14 found in the first review of emergency plans in April 15 19 81.~

Nany of the planning deficiencies cited after the s

1982 exercise were similar to those found in the 1981 i

17-review.

We have now been informed by FEMA that some of bi' i

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the significant deficiences have still not been

,18 tG corrected.

I 20 Noreover, and it is a big moreover, while it 21 stressed that improvements have been made, FEHA declined 22 to make a finding that there is adequate emergency 23 preparedness in the vicinity of Indian point until it

(

24 reviews the results of a full-scale exercise scheduled 25 for March of next year.

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554-2346

12

(~

In view of this unfortunate history of State 1

2 and county performance and tha obvious f act of uniquely l

3 high population in the Indian Point area, we should not

('

4 approve operation of the power plants without a 5

favorable FEHA finding on emergency preparedness.

6 I want to add, in anticipation of what 7

Commissionar Asselstine has to say, that I agree with 8

his legal analysis.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:

Commissioner Asselstine.

11 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE:

I have dissenting 12 views that will be attached to the order and I will just 13 highlight some of the eleaents f rom those.

14 First, I strongly disagree with the decision 15 today by the Commission majority to delay a decision on 16 the adequacy of emergency preparedness at the Indian 17 Point plants until af ter the Federal Emergency 18 Hanagement Agency's evaluation of the March 1983 19 exercise and to take no enforcement action at this time 20 regarding emergency preparedness for the Indian Point 21 plants.

22 The question before the Commission today is 23 whether in the absence of reasonable assurance now that

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24 the Indian Point amergency plans will work if needed 25 some enforcement action is warranted.

I believe th a t

\\

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPWY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

a 13 I

^

1 enforement action in the form of a show-cause order is

/

2 justified.

3 I also believe that the public interest 4

requires that such an order be made immediately 5

effective thereby preventing further operation of the 6

Indian Point plants until the significant deficiencies 7

in emergency preparedness have been corrected or until 8

the Commission has sufficient information to support a 9

finding that continued operation of the plants is 10 warranted.

l 11 In my view, three factors justify the issuance 12 of an immediately ef fective show-cause orda r.

13 First, there is not now reasonable assurance 14 that the energency plans for the Indian Point plants, 15 even though improved, will function adequately in the 16 event of an accident.

17 Second, significant deficiencies in emergency 18 preparedness for the Indian Point plants have existed 19 for the past 20 months and despite the institution of 20 'two 120-day periods during that time, it is still not 21 possible to predict when tho'se deficiencies will be 22 corrected.

23 I would note that the improvements in

(

24 emergency planning do not provide assurance that the 25 plans will in fact work.

An exercise is needed to l

l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

3g

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1 provide that assurance.

The lack of--further enforcement 2

action nov leaves open the possibility of unlimited 3

future operation of the plants in the f ace of continuing I

4 significant deficiencies in emergency preparedness.

5 Third, emergercy preparedness, although an 6

important element in all cases, is of particular 7

signficance in the case of the Indian Point plants given 8

the large population in the vicinity of the Indian Point 9

site.

10 I believe that these three factors outweigh 11 the f actors cited by the Commission majority in its 12 decision not to pursue any enforcement actions at this 13 time.

In particular, I do not believe that the progress

(

to date in improving, though landible, or the 14 15 probability of a serious accident involving off-site 16 releases justifies the Commission majority's no-action 17 decision or the unlimited future operation of the Indian 18 Point plants.

I 19 In addition, I do not believe that the i

20 Commission has before it in the record other information 21 that demonstrates a compelling need for continued 22 operation of the Indian Point plants until the 23 significant deficiencies in emergency preparedness are 24 corrected.

25 For these reasons I would issue an immediately

(

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

15

'~~

1 effective show-cause order requiring the shutdown of the 2

Indian Poin t plants until FEHA has determined that the 3

significant deficiencies in energency preparedness have

,(

4 been corrected or until the licensees have provided 5

sufficient information to justify the continued 6

operation of the plants.

7 Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:

Well, I think it is clear 9

from the various opinions expressed that this has been a 10 difficult decision for the Commission and a very close 11 one, but the majority has voted, as I indicated, and we 12 vill procead from there.

13 Is there anything more to come before us at

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14 this time on this subject?

15 (No response.)

16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:

If not, we will stand 17 adjourned.

~

l 18 Thank you very much.

19 (Whereupon, at 5:40 p.m.,

the meeting 20 adjourned.)

21 22 23 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGlNIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

WTM IEEGULL"*JE CDP 33rCN.

p ThiX 11 OC 44.Mif7 Uhat the. Ettached ;PCCded1Cg3 befcPt the COMMISSION MEETING is the 24t%42* Cf:

PUBLIC MEETING - Discussion /Possible Vote on Actions in Regard to Indian Point Datt Cf PPCCeeding:

December 22, 1982 QCCkst Gunker-Place Cf PPCC4tding.

Washington, D. C.

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