ML20027D585
| ML20027D585 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 11/04/1982 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| ISSUANCES-SP, NUDOCS 8211080106 | |
| Download: ML20027D585 (38) | |
Text
..
NCC17.AR REGULATORY COM!CSSICN 4
- g' b.
3tI a
BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD In de.Mem; cf:
DOCKET NOS.:
CONSOLIDATED EEISON CCMPANY OF NEW YORK (Indian Point Unit 2) 50-247 SP POWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK (Indian Point Unit 3) 50-296 SP O
DA*I: November 4, 1982 PAGZS:
4820 - 4855 AO:
White Plains, New York pE Q,
$ N M te led 7 HN g
nK
& Qf h c}m Y37 F/W i
l l
l TRh\\
.1LDERSOX REPORT 1XG O
F-Q l
400 Virginia Ave., S.W. Wa*r-d r gen, D. O.
20024 l 0 1*=a=== = ( 2 o:) 554-2245 1
f3211080106 821104 PDR ADOCK 05000234 POR i
l
4820
()
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY CCMMISSION 3
BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARO
{)
4
x 5
In the Matter of:
Docket Nos.:
6 CONSOLI0ATED EDISON COMPANY OF NEW YORK 50-24T SP (Indian Point Unit 2) 7 PCWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK :
8 (Indian Point Unit 3) 50-286 SP
.... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x g
10 Ceremonial Courtroom Westchester County Courthouse Grove Street 11 White Plains, N.Y.,10601 12 Thursday, November 4,
1982
()
The prehearing conference in this special '
investigative proceeding was convened, pursuant to 15 recess, at 11:2S a.m.
16 BEFORE:
17 LOUIS J. CARTER, Chairman 18 Administrative Law Judge 19 OSCAR H.
PARIS Administrative Law Judge 20 FREDERICK J.
SHON 21 Administrative Law Judge 22 RUTH ANN MILLER, Legal Assistant to the Board 23 24 25 O
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INc.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 828-8300
4821
}
1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of Licensee, Consolidated Edison Company of New York:
O 3
BRENT L.
BRANDENBURG, Esq.
4 Assistant General Counsel THOMAS FAIRLEY, Esq.
5 KENNETH SHAW, Esq.
t 6
STEVEN SOHINKI Consolidated Edison Company of New York, Inc.
7 4 Irving Place New York, N.Y.
10003 8
On behalf of Licensee, the Pe,wer Authority of the g
State of New York:
10 CHARLES PRATT, Esq.
Assistant General Counsel 11 Power Authority of the State of New York 12 PAUL F. COLARULLI, Esq.
JOSEPH J.
LEVIN, Esq.
13 Morgan Associates, Chartered
()
1899 L Street, N.W.
1e Washington, D.C.
20036 s
15 DAVID H.
PIKUS, Esq.
Shea and Gould 16 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Staff:
17 18 JANICE MOORE, Esq.
STUART TRESY, Esq.
19 HENRY J. McGURREN, Esq.
Washington, D.C.
20 On behalf of the Federal Emergency Management 21 Agency:
22 STUART GLASS, Esq.
SPENCE PERRY, Esq.
23 On behalf of the Intervonors:
Council of the City of New York:
25 CRAIG KAPLAN, Esq.
O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 828 e300 L
4822
()
1 APPEARANCES:
CContinued) 2 On behalf of Intervonors 3
Westchester County Executive:
-( }
4 LAURA VETERE 5
County of Rockland; 6
ERIC THORSEN, Esq.
11 New Hempstead Road 7
New City, N.Y.
10003 8
New York Public Interest Research Group; 9
JOAN HOLT MELVIN GCLDBERG, Esq.
l 10 Staff Attorney 9 Murray Street 11 New York, New York 10007 12 Friends of the Earth, Inc., and New York City Audobon Society l
()
RICHARD HARTZMAN, Esq.
14 Ninth Legislativo District, Westchester County:
15 RICHARD BRODSKY, Esq.
16 White Plains, N.Y.
17 Parents Concerned About Indian Point!
18 PHYLLIS RODRIGUEZ I
i KATHY FEIT 19 P.O.
Box'125
(
Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y.
10520 20 Rockland Citizens for Safe Energy:
21 JUDITH KESSLER 22 P.O.
Box 74 New City, N.Y.
10956 l
M 24 25 O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) m
4823 O
i areeaaaaces:
ccaatiaued) 2 On behalf o_f Intervenors:
3 Union of Concerned Scientists:
4 JEFFREY BLUM, Esq.
New York University of Law 5
40 Washington Square South, Room 423 New York, N.Y.
10011 6
West Branch Conservation Association:
7 ZIPPORAH S.
FLEISHER 8
443 Buena Vista Road New City, N.Y.
10956 9
10 11 12 13 O
~
14 15 16 17 18 19
~
20 21 22 23 O
u 25 O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 8264300
4824
' O eau u u u1 2
JUDGE GLEASON:
If me can come back in 3
session, please.
4 For the record, would you make your 5
appearances noted?
6 MR. LEVIN:
Yes, Your Honor.
On behalf of the 7
Power Authority from Morgan Associates in Washington, D.
8 C.,
Joseph Levin, Paul Colarulli.
From Shea and Gould g
in New York, David Pikus and the Assistant General 10 Counsel for the Power Authority, Charles Pratt.
11 MR. SRANDENBURG:
For Con Edison, Mr.
12 Chairman, Brent L.
Brandenburg, Stephen M.
- Sohinki, 13 Thomas Fairley and Kenneth Shaw.
O 14 MS. MOORE:
On behalf of the Staff, Mr.
15 Chairman, Janice Moore, Henry J.
McGurren, and Stuart 16 Treby.
17 MR. SLUM:
For the Union of Concerned 18 Scientists, Jeffrey M.
Blum.
1g MS. FLEISHER:
West Branch Conservation 20 Association, Zipporah S. Fleisher.
21 MR. HARTIMAN:
Friends of the Earth and New 22 York City Audubon Society, Richard Harts: man.
MR. GCLOBERG:
New York Public Interest 23 O'
24 Research Group, Melvin Goldberg and Joan Holt.
25 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
Parents Concerned About Indian O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
M0 FIRST ST N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 82H300
4825
()
1 Point, Phyllis Rodriguez and Kathy Feit.
2 MR. THORSEN:
For Rockland County Executive by 3
Eric Thorsen.
()
4 MS. VETERE:
Laura Vetere on behalf of the 5
Westchester County Executive.
6 MR. KAPLAN:
New York City Council Members by 7
Craig Kaplan.
8 JUDGE GLEASON:
Thank you.
The record should 9
note that the committee which was appointed yesterday to 10 consider a schedule and procedure has come back with a 11 report.
12 MS. HOLT:
Mr. Chairman, we can't hear you.
13 JUDGE GLEASON:
Can you hear now?
O 14 As I. indicated, the committee that was 15 appointed yesterday has submitted its report of a 16 schedule and the good no6s and the bad news is I 17 appreciate or we appreciate the work of the committee, 18 but it is inadequate to the purposes for which se must 19 address ourselves.
20 MS. RODRIGUEI:
Can you repeat that?
21 JUDGE GLEASON:
I'm not going to receat the s
22 thing.
23 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
We can't hear.
24 JUOGE GLEASON:
hell, then you had bettte come 25 up in the front row and sit or something.
I have to O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 028-0300
4 4826
()
1 concentrat's on what I am saying.
I am sorry, but I will 2
try to speak as loud as I can.
3 How about this?
()
4 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
Much better.
5 JUDGE GLEASON:
Repeating what I just 6
indicated, we appreciate the efforts of the committee, 7
but we find that or we have concluded that the 8
senedule -- the proposed schedule -- is just not 9
adequate enough, for our purposes at least, to be able 10 to provide the parties with some target dates and also 11 to send to the Commission to comply with the 12 Commission's request that we give it our estimate of 13 when the recommendations called by the Commission's O
14 order can be provided.
15 I am not ready at this point to let the 16 committee disband, although I do think we are going to 17 cut down the members of the committee.
In other words, 18 with some additional instructions we are going to ask 19 the members of the committee to go back into a session 20 again and the additional instructions are essentially 21 these.
22 I should mention we have also been given what 23 I guess is -- you know, I don't really want to say 24 majority and minority because that was not the purpose 25 for which people were put on this committee -- the O
/
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
M0 FIRsT ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 625 0300
4827 1
separate views of Mr. Slum, Ms. Fleisher and Ms. Vetere
()
i 2
dealing with the committee report.
And I want to make 3
some comment with respect to that at the present time.
4 I do not believe -- if I did say so, I should 5
not have said it but I do not believe I said it, 8
although I don't have the transcript here, that no 7
consideration was being given to eliminating 8
antervonors' profiled testimony on Questions 3 and 4 I
9 don't think I commented on that in any degree.
What I 10 indicated was that no co'nsideration was going to be 11 given to eliminating Conten, tion 3 and 4, in other words, 12 the emergency planning contentions.
13 Obviously there is no way that I can give O.
14 assurance that profiled testimony is going to make it 15 into the record and that would not be a good judicial 16 pronouncement.
We do have apparently some concern that 17 the testimony that has been profiled by nine Westchester County witnesses should be heard or certain kinds of 18 considerations that there is an attempt to suppress it.
19 As far as the Board is concerned, the charge 20 21 has no basis and the Board has discussed this, and it is 22 our belief that that testimony, even though it deals with Questions 3 and 4,
is really -- would not really be 23
()
24 adeouate in the absence of the information to be 25 provided by FEMA in the first part of December O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 82W
4828
()
1 pertaining to the adequacy of the emergency plans.
2 Therefore, the Board would be agreeable and 3
the other side of that, the next part of that issue that
(])
4 I wanted to mention was that the Board does believe that 5
because the individuals have been re,sponsible for the 6
government and its departments over the past, I presume, 7
four years or at least as many years as they have been 8
there, they certainly do have an experience dealing with 9
areas of the counties which relate to emergency 10 planning, which the Soard would like to receive and like 11 to hear about in the hearing.
12 What this comes down to, then, is our decision 13 that on the understanding that the Westchester County O
14 witnesses would review the FEMA report and refer to 15 those reports in their testimony, so that their 16 testimony could then be timely, the Board would, in the 17 light of the fact that there would be -- that that 18 t e s t imo n y would otherwise be lost, would set aside the 19 week, and one week only -- and hopefully it would not 20 take the whole week, but there is no way we can 21 determine that time, or we can put a limit on it, and 22 that limit is on it -- one week -- to receive that 23 testimony and also finish cross examination with respect 24 to it.
25 That, of course, would not take away the O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 628 0300
4829
()
1 responsibility of other officials if they want to 2
participate at some point and make a proper showing that 3
are. going to be coming into office as far as Westchester
()
4 Coun ty is concerned.
5 The other comment that I would like to make 8
with respect to this schedule is that we believe there 7
is no necessity for delaying this hearing on Question 2 8
until February 1.
We think it ought to start earlier 9
than that and we also believe that the other hearing 10 periods and the other target dates with respect to the 11 filing of testimony and also the filing of cross I
12 examination plans, which I don't see in here, should 13 be -- on all the contention *, it should be included in O
14 the schedule.
15 Obviously, these can only be considered as 16 target dates, but we think that they ought to be there and we think that you ought to participate in tnem.
l 17 3- -
\\
Excuse me just one minute.
18 (Board conferring.)
19 JUDGE GLEASON:
In any event, what this comes 20 21 down to is that we ars going to ask the committee to go 22 back and to make a batter effort to produce a better product than your efforts have produced up to this 23 24 point.
We would ask the Staff to participate in that discussion.
We left them out yesterday for other 25 l
(:)
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
MO FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 028 0300
4830
()
1 reasons, but we think that they might be helpful in 2
this.
3 MS. RODRIGUEI:
Excuse me.
(]}
4 JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes, ma'am.
5 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
I would like to register a 6
complaint.
I don't feel that all parties, all 7
Intervenors, are represented on this committee and 8
something that came to my attention this morning is that 9
at 8:00 on WNEW-FM there was a news report that all the 10 parties in this proceeding had agreed to the order in 11 which the questions would be raised -- 2, 1,
5 ard 6 --
12 and that emergency planning was to be pushed to the end.
13 And Parents Concerned About Indian Point is O
14 not represented on this committee.
We feel very 15 strongly about Questions 3 and 4.
As a matter of fact, 16 we are of the view we would like these proceedings to l
17 start quickly and to be as efficient as possible and we 18 feel that the question of emergency planning should come 19 up as soon as possible.
JUDGE PARIS:
Ms. Rodriguez, the news report 20 21 was obviously incorrect.
Judge Gleason said just a 22 minute ago that we were going to begin hearing evidence from Westchester County witnesres on emergency planning 23 24 in a very short time.
25 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
Yes, I appreciate that.
I
(
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.c. 20001 (202) 82H300
4831
()
1 think that is a very good step in the right direction.
2 But I feel that our interests are not represented on 3
this committee.
4 JUDGE GLEASON:
Well, the committee is 5
supposed to be representative of all the parties and I 6
presume that Mr. Blum and Ms. Fleisher are also involved 7
on emergency planning contentions, are also in 8
consultation with you as far as your desires.
I am not 9
going to add to the committee because the committee is 10 there and they should talk to you.
11 I am going to ask them.
It is now 11345 and I 12 am going to ask them to go back to wherever they can 13 work, and they can work in this room, if possible, or O
14 wherever they are working and I would like to have'them 15 come back at 2:30 with a schedule which is more 16 complete, which deals with all the contentions and 17 provides for what we have indicated with respect to 18 emergency planning and our comments yesterday as well as tg today with respect to Westchester County and the 20 witnesses.
21 Mr. Blum?
22 MR. BLUM:
There are two important points of 23 clarification, if you please.
I believe you were 24 starting to say a certain time or a date for the week 25 when the Westchester County witnesses would be put on.
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) e28-4300
4832
()
1 JUDGE GLEASON:
Did I not give the date?
2 MR. SLUM:
No.
3 JUDGE GLEASON:
I am talking about the week of
[}
4 December 13 through IT.
5 MR. SLUM:
Thank you, Judge Gleason.
6 The other point where I need clarificat!-n --
7 JUDGE GLEASON:
This is premised, of course, 8
on FEMA having its adequacy evaluation available and, of 9
course, they would have, presumably, a week as witnesses 10 to review that testimony or review that report.
11 MR. BLUM:
Could we ask whether FEMA in fact 12 is committing to producing the report?
13 JUDGE GLEASON:
I asked them that yesterday O
14 and they saio they would be ready on December 3.
15 MR. SLUM:
Thank you.
There is one other 16 point where I need clarification as to the status in 17 which committee members are functioning.
If you define
((
18 our position as representative of intervenors, I suspect 19 we will be given a mandate from the intervenors as a 20 whole not to participate further in the committee and as 21 representatives of them we would have no choice but to 22 f o llon: that.
If you wish to authorize us to participato as 23 24 individuals who are simply there to help out, regardless 25 of any relationship with intervenors, then we would as
(
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 82S4300 y.
.~c
4833
()
1 individuals be free to make an individual choice whether 2
we wish to participato.
3 JUDGE GLEASCN:
I have tried to make the
[}
I have tried to fit two criteria:
- first, 4
committee 5
to make it as small as I possibly can so that it could 8
become a working body, and also to have it represent the 7
broad interests that are involved in this proceeding.
8 And that is where we are going to leave it.
And, you 9
know, I am not saying you are representing them.
I am 10 saying obviously with two licensees they have to be 11 involved.
12 I have now asked the Staff because the Staff 13 is a very essential part of this proceeding, which I O
14 left out yesterday because I thou'ght we could produce a 15 working schedule.
And if you don't want to participate 18 I will ask someone else to participate.
17 MR. BLUM:
No.
My question is shether I_
18 represent only the Union of Concerned Scientists, am I 19 still allowed to participate?
20 JUDGE GLEASON:
Certainly.
21 MR. BLUM:
Thank you.
22 JUDGE GLEASON:
But I hope that you, in the 23 spirit of trying to get something accomplished here, 24 consult with the other representatives if they have any 25 particular points that they want.
O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 626-9300
I 4834
()
1 MR. BLUM:
I will do that.
2 JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes, ma'am.
3 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
Why can't this decision be
[}
4 opsn in front of you, Mr. Chairman?
5 JUDGE GLEASON:
Because I have designated a 6
committee to produce a schedule.
I am not going to 7
comment on that.
i 8
MS. RODRIGUEZ:
This schedule affects us.
9 JUOGE GLEASON:
Are there any other commet;ts?
10 Ma'am, that is all.
11 MS. RO,DRIGUEZ:
I don't feel all the --
12 JUDGE GLEASON:
Ma'am, you have made your 13 point.
. O 14 Yes.
15 MR. LEVIN:
Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the 16 Power Authority, I think the record should reflect that 17 the document entitled " Separate Views of Committee 18 Majority" of which neither the Power Authority or, I ig believe, Con Edison was aware until it was handed out to 20 you this morning.
JUDGE GLEASON:
I understand.
21 22 MR. BRANDEh3URG:
Just a further 23 clarification, Mr. Chairman.
As a member of the 24 committee, I would just like to report there ses no 25 linkage in our discussions with the full committee O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-e300
4835 1
membership between the separate views document and the 2
report document, and myself and Mr. Colarulli for the 3
Power Authority hed no knowledge that this separate 4
views document was being prepared.
5 JUDGE GLEASON:
I understand.
Yes, go ahead.
6 Were you finished, Mr. Brandenburg?
7 MR. BRANDENBURG:
I am finished.
8 MR. KAPLAN:
I have no problem with the 9
committee.
What I am concerned about, however -- and I 10 would like to report having discussed the scheduling 11 possibility with my client, and merely like to reiterate 12 the City Council Members' position that they would like 13 to go forward on their testimony, which is not affected O
14 one iota by any'120-day clock.
There are no plans at 16 issue for New York City.
That must be on the record at i
16 some point.
l I am concerned at this po t thet though there
~
17 is no immediate change in New York City government, 18 19 given the long sweep of these proceedings by the time we 20 get to emergency planning, God knows, there may be a lot 21 of changes.
We are prepared to go forward tomorrow and 22 I would offer that as a way for the committee and for 23 the Board to deal with the problem that you alluded to.
O One 4f 1he m nss vou aust saie is that vou 2A 25 are urhappy.
I am characterizing that.
O ALDERSON REPORTING COM*ANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-9300
4836 i
O i
JuoGE GLEAsoa:
1 think that is an accurate i
2 summary.
3 MR. KAPLAN:
That you are unhappy with the 4
timing in which the hearings would be held on Question-5 2.
I offer 'the committee and the Board a way to use 6
that time in an expeditious fashion.
7 JUDGE GLEASON:
I understand and, you know, 8
that is something that I was aware of yesterday, that g
you are ready to go forward.
10 Yes, did you have some comment?
11 MR. GOLDBERG:
My comments are pretty much 12 along the same lines as Mr. Kaplan.
I would just 13 emphasize that I don't understand how they are going to O
~
which 14 shave ' time off the February 1 deadline or startup 15 you indicated that you want, because they have already 16 gone through that is how much time they need, we need, 17 et cetera.
18 JUDGE GLEASON3 All we will ask that they do 1g it take another look at it.
'20 All right, Ms. Fleisher.
21 MS. FLEISHER:
Your Honor, I have two little 22 points, please.
One is that might we not set a time a 23 little earlier that 2:30 in the event that we would be l
24 able to be finished before then and then, if necessary, i
25 ask for another half hour -- let us say 2:007 That is O
ALDERSON REPORTING CCMPANY,INC.
M0 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 828 e300
l 4837 l
O 1
one suggesuon.
2 The other is that because of the fact that we 3
do not know for sure what contentions, nor do so yet, 4
that we own or are responsible for, it is hard to 5
solicit witnesses on a maybe.
We have really to start 6
as if we are starting from scratch on some of those 7
issues and I believe that the timing was set and almost 8
in agreement with the Licensees for those reasons.
9 And also, we did hope -- se took into 10 account -- the suggestion that the Staff had given us, 11 so it may not take us until 2:00.
12 JUDGE GLEASON:
I would prefer to keep'it at 13 2*30, and then if you need another half hour, we will do O
it at 3:00.
14 m
15 Yes.
16 MR. BRANDENBURG:
Mr. Chairman, a point of clarification.on the mission, if you will, of the 17, 18 committee between nom and the time we resume, and that 19 is whether or not it is the Board's desire that the 20 committee attempt to plot out a timetable that would 21 carry us through the entire end of the proceeding.
22 JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes.
23 MR. BRANDENBURG:
That would require us to-24 estimate, for example, approximate time for cross 25 examination?
O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
P 440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 8264300
4838 9
O
'i-auoos c'eAsos:
1== der 1 ao ta
- o 18 1 i=
2' what I would like the committee to do, realizing, of 3
course,.that if we get beyond a couple of months it is a
,.targei area.
Sut I would like to have them attempt that 4
5 as much as possible.
6 I don't see' anything in here about filing your 7
cross examination plans and, of course, they should be 8
done at least three or four days before the hearing, we 9
can assume.
to Yes, there is a question?
11 JUDGE PARIS:
I would like to ask counsel for 12 FEMA if I understood you correctly yesterday to say that 13 your December evaluation would be submitted to the O
14 Commission, if and when the Commission requested it.
Is 15 that correct?
16 MR. GLASS:
That is correct.
. = =. - -- - =
17
- - --. JUDGE PARIS:
So something has to come to you 18 from the NRC before you' submit a report, is that right?
19 MR. GLASS:
That is correct.
20 JUDGE PARIS:
Ms. Moore, can you enlighten us 21 who in the Commission will make that request of FEMA?
l 22 MS. MDDRE:
I believe it will be the Director 23 of the Division of Emergency Preparedness, Mike Grimes.
24 JUDGE PARIS:
Do you think ycu can provide us 25 any assurance that the request will go to FEMA in time O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON D.C. 20001 (202) 826-0300
.c 4039
+
O 1
for FEMA ti prepare its report and enable us to go to i'
.s 2
hearing on the 13 t n o f, 0,e,c o mb e r ?
3 MS. MOORE:
Yes, I believe I can provide that s/
~
4 assurance.
If I'have'any difficulty, I will notify the 5
Board within five days.
3 JUDGik PARIS:
Thank you very much.
1 6
7 JUDGE GLEASON:
Thank you..Right, we will 8
stand in recess until --
\\,
9 MR..BRODSKY:
Mr. Chairman, would you note my
+
i 10 appearance?
JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes, Mr. Brodsky.
11 s
s We will stand in receUs,until.2:30.
Th'ank you.
12 13 (Whereupon, at 11:54 o' clock a.m.,
the hearing O
14 recessed, to reconvene at 2:30 o' clock p.m.,
the same 15 day.)
.x 16
---37 18 19 20 21
\\
22 23 24 3 -
25
+
x 0
\\
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,iNC e
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 626 0300 s -
4840
}
1 AEIEEMQQM_lfillDM
~
2 (3:54 p.m.)
3 JUDGE GLEASON:
Could we come back in session?
[]}
4 The committee has completed their work and 5
filed their report with the Board and all other 6
parties.
I first want to express my appreciation for 7
the work that you did.
This is the kind of detail that 8
we were hoping to get.
9 I think it is -- I think we will certainly 10 review it very carefully and particularly we will review 11 the caveats that are attached to it, and keeping in mind 12 that there are other parties that.have other interests 13 that they have expressed during this prehearing O
14 conference.
15 As I think all the parties know, it is the 16 responsibility of the Board to' establish the schedule
.. _. = _ = - - - =
after consulting with all of the parties, and I.think wo g7 18 have done this.
And so we hopefully will have something P
out in the very near future with respect to the schedule l
19 i
20 and with respect to the reformulation of -- with respect 21 to, I should say, setting forth the preconference order 22 after this session is completed, which will relate to 23 the final decision on the contentions.
24 I wanted to make a couple of very brief 25 comments, one to Mrs. Fleisher which I wanted to do
()
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRsT ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 6260300
l 4841 l ()
1 earlier but I got off on the schedule.
I am not sure l
2 precisely whether you are under the impression that the
/~T 3
Board -- that you are waiting for something further from V
4 the Board ~with respect to either those parts of 5
Contention 2 and Contention 5 that have been deleted.
6 If you are, the Board is not in a position to 7
respond and will not be.
We understand what your 8
concern has been and we are certainly going to 9
reevaluate the October 1 order in the light of the views 10 that you have expressed.
But I didn't want you to be 11 under some impression that you were waiting for the 12 Board to give further information to you.
13 The Board has indicated that and has invited O
Board questions in this area are up,'that 14 that, when the 15 se invited the parties to present testimony and 16 certainly to participate in cross examination and we do
_'*'L._
17 so present it, and perhaps that is what.you were waiting
)
18 for.
But I just wanted to make it clear that I am not tg sure that we can provide you with anything further and 1
l 20 we are not asking you for information that justifies 21 your position.
22 MS. FLEISHER:
Your Honor, I believe that we 23 were under the impression that we could reply to the l
l 24 order of October 1 and we did so reply by October 15, 25 which was the deadline given in there, and I think it O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRsT ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 62H300 j. - - - - - - -
4842
(
1 said -- and this is my memory anyway -- that if there 2
was anything that we didn't agree with, we should so 3
state.
4
~~
And so when we were deprived of 2.2(d) 5 small "d" -- we felt that an issue was being removed.
6 It wasn't just a question of who would address that 7
issue, but that the entire issue of plant safety, as we 8
see it -- that is, the actual safety -- would be 9
removed.
We are not talking about on-site safety.
And 10 again we sought an appeal to you to reinstate that item, 11 that you might reconsider it.
i 12 JUDGE GLEASON:
We intend to do that.
We 13 intend to reconsider everything that we have done in the C:n 14 light of the comments that have been made and the i
15 responses that have been received, and just because 18 there was some reference in your letter to the fact that 17 you didn't have adequate time and you were waiting for j
18 some further information by the Board, I didn't want you I didn't want you to be waiting on to be entering
,jg 20 something from the Eoard.
MS. FLEISHER:
Well, if you do reinstate 21 22 2.2(d), in fact, that is why we had the different dates 23 down on this list for our response for testimony.
If O
24 that should be reinstated, we would have a different job 25 to do than if it is not, and obviously we ca.:. tot go O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 028 e300
~
4843
()
1 forward until we hear from you.
2 That is all I meant.
3 JUDGE GLEASON:
All right, fine.
(}
4 The other matter -- there were two other 5
matters left hanging.
One was that we invited and we 6
extended the time for responding -- any parties that 7
wanted to seek further consolidation to indicate that 8
intention to the Board by the time of this prehearing 9
conference.
And we have not heard any such at this i
10 time, and I am not sure there is anything further to be 11 said.
12 Do you have some comment on that?
l MR. HARTZMANI Yes, Your Honor.
l 13 14 Just Mr. Kaplan, counsel for New York City 15 Council members, had made a previous commitment this 16 afternoon because he thought we would be out of here 17 earlier.
He may still have some concern about filing a 18 motion to consolidate or making some requests with l
gg regard to consolidation.
I cannot speak for him on that l
20 behalf, but I just wanted to indicate that there is a 21 possibility.
22 JUDGE GLEASON:
Well, if you would be good 23 enough to indicate to him*that I brought this up at this
}
24 session, if he has any kind of intention to move-in that 25 direction that he had better notify the Board forthwith
()
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 626-9300
~.
4844 1
because we are going to be in the process of coming out 2
with a prehearing conference order and with the 3
schedules, so he doesn't have much time to indicate 4
that.
5 MR. HARTZMAN:
I will notify him.
6 JUDGE GLEASON:
Thank you.
7 The other item that is left pending -- two 8
items.
One, I asked earlier for the Licensees to give 9
some indication on the status of operation of -- both 10 the status of the present and future operations of both 11 Units 1 and 2.
12 Are you prepared to do that, Mr. Brandenburg?
13 MR. BRANDENBURG:
Mr. Chairman, the Indian O
14 Point Unit Number 2, which is owned and operated by 15 Consolidated Edison, went into a regularly scheduled 16 refueling and maintenance outage on September 17, 1982.
17 While there is naturally some uncertainty surrounding 18 the precise milestones during such activities, at 19 present it is the Consolidated Edison's best judgment 20 that the unit will return to service.
21 JUDGE GLEASON:
Excuse me.
I didn't hear 22 you.
23 MR. BRANDENSURG:
That the unit will return to 24 service in approximately mid-December.
25 JUDGE GLEASON:
December of '827 0
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INc.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.c. 20001 (202) 826 0300
4845
()
1 MR. BRANDENBURG:
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
2 JUDGE GLEASON:
All right.
Thank you.
3 Mr. Levin?
I (}
4 MR. LEVIN:
Your Honor, with respect to Indian 5
Point-3, the plant is presently down,and undergoing 6
repairs.
It will be early 1983, but I could not be any
[
7 more specific than that.
It is a wish that it would be 8
early 1983.
9 JUDGE GLEASON:
You wouldn't want to' define at j
l l
10 least the word "early"?
11 MR. LEVIN:
That is what I would be afraid to, l'
12 because I am afraid that anything I-would suggest at 13 this time is more than likely going to be wrong.
14 JUDGE GLEASON:
The other item that was left t
l 15 pending is that we have asked the -- we have asked Mr.
16 Levin, and I presume the same thing applies to you, Mr.
17 Brandenburg, that you recall there were some additional 18 bases suggested yesterday by Mr. Blum, and we would like 1
1g to get a response back, if you intend to respond to i
20 those bases.
21 We mould like to get that as early as 22 possible.
I really am talking Monday, if we could, if 23 you can.
I realize this might be a problem.
p/
b-24 HR. LEVIN:
Your Honor, I think we can 25 accommodste the Board on that.
What we need -- one
()
4DERSON REPORTING COM?ANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-9300
4846
()
1 article was mentioned.
It is reasonably short.
I don't 2
think we need any further specificity there.
3 Several NUREGs were mentioned.
One had page f (}
4 numbers identified; two did not.
I think CR-2055 or 5
2155, and 1410 -- 1410, I think had page numbers i
6 identified.
1411 did not.
If we could get specificity 7
on those documents from Mr. Blum, it would assist us.
8 JUOGE GLEASON:
Could you help us out on that,
)
9 Mr. Blum?
\\
~
10 MR. BLUM:
Yes.
The number, first of all, was 11 2155, not 2055 -- NUREG-CR-2155.
It is entitled "A 12 Review of the Applicability of Core Retention Concepts i
13 to Lightwater Reactor Containments."
As distinct from
, O 14 the other volume, which covered many, many different 15 areas, this volume is primarily on core retention l
16 concepts.
I suspect in the Table of Contents you will l
17 be able to see which parts are talking about filtered i
vents and which parts about core catchers.
18 I am willing to help you more as soon as I can 19 20 get my hands on the document, but I am unable.to do that 21 now.
MR. LEVIN:
Well, Your Honor, I wouldn't want 22 23 to have a guessing JUDGE GLEASON:
Can you do that by tomorrow, 24 25 Mr. Slum, because we are really trying to get our order i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 826 9300
4847 O
i out.
2 MR. BLUM:
What I will do is I will call Mr.
1 3
Sholly in Washington, who has the volume, and either get 4
the pages from him and have call Mr. Levin or have him 5'
call Mr. Levin.
6 JUDGE GLEASON:
I appreciate that.
7 The last item that was left -- Mrs.
8 Rodriguez?
9 MS. RODRIGUEZ:
I'm sorry.
I missed it when 10 you asked about consolidation.
The Parents would like 11 to request on the discussion of probability that se be 12 able to consolidate with NYPIRG.
13 JUDGE GLEASON:
All right.'
Thank you.
O 14 MR. HARTIMAN:
If I understood your October 1 15 order, Friends of the Earth and New York City Audubon i
16 have been consolidated.
17 JUDGE GLEASON:
That is right.
l 18 The last item relates to the Staff for some 19 information and that was with respect, I gather, to 20 whether we are going to be able to get some definitive 21 response on when the NRC was going to request a report 22 from FEMA, and I understand that there is some, shall we i
23 say, update information -- some additional 24 information -- that the Staff wants to provide for the l
25 record.
O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-9300
4848 O
Mr. Tr.bv, 2
MR. TREBY:
Yes, Judge Gleason.
3 On October 28, 1982, the Staff provided to the
(}
4 Soard and to all parties copies of two pieces of 5
correspondence the Staff had received from FEMA.
The 8
second of these was a letter from Lee M.
- Thomas, 7
Associate Director, State and Local Programs and I
8 Support, to William J.
Dircks, the Executive Director 9
for Operations of the NRC, and it is dated October 18, 10 1982.
11 The second paragraph of that attachment is 12 indicated that FEMA intends to prepare or is prepared to 13 provide to the Commission two documents, one being an O
14 update at the end of the 120-day period, and the second 15 an evaluation after the exercise.
16 With regard to the update at the end of the 17 120-day period, during the break, while the committee 18 was doing its work, we have gotten back to the people in jg Washington to ascertain whether they would in fact ask 20 FEMA for that update, and they indicated that they would 21 and, in fact, advised us that there has been some 22 informal communication between the Commission and FEMA 23 as to the providing of that upcated report at the end of 24 the 120 days.
l 25 As part of this informal communication, there C)
ALLERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
M0 MRsT ST., N.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20001 (202) 828-e300
4849 i
()
I has been a discussion of the time as to when that 2
updated report would be provided by FEMA, and there was 3
the use of the term "within a reasonable period of
[
4 time."
I discussed it with the representatives of FEMA 5
who are here and they are better able to address what is 6
meant by "within a reasonable period of time," and I 7
would like now for FEMA to indicate to the Board their 8
understanding of when this update would be provided.
9 MR. GLASS:
Thank you.
We have been in touch 10 with our central office and we have discussed with them
(
11 the term of " reasonable time."
What it means is that 12 under the NRC regulations the Licensee and the State of 13 New York is entitled to the full 120 days in which to O
14 respond to the clock and, therefore, FEMA would not 15 receive material from the New York State until after the 16 120th day.
17 Therefore, FEMA would need additional time after it receives that material to review the material.
18 19 My best estimate at this point is approximately two weeks thereafter that material would be forwarded to 20 21 NRC.
JUDGE PARIS:
You are talking about two weeks 22 23 following December 37
()
24 MR. GLASS:
That is correct.
l 25 JUOGE GLEASON:
Am I incorrect in my O
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.O. 20001 (202) 628-9300
4850
()
1 understanding that you have a working committee that is 2
operating now that is evaluating these deficiencies and 3
you have a number of task force that are evaluating the
{)
4 various areas of improvernents made currently going on?
5 MR. GLASS:
That is correct.
6 JUDGE GLEASON:
Then why is it necessary to 7
wait after the 120-day period for additional 8
information?
9 MR. GLASS:
Again, as I have been informed, it 10 has been discussed in front of the full Commission by 11 Mr. Thomas and seemed to be concurred in -- I was 12 informed it was concurred in by the Commission that the 13 Licensee and the State of New York is entitled to the 0
14 full 120 days and, therefore, we would have to wait for 15 the final submission after ' hat 120th day.
16 That is the reason we are able to give as 17 quick a turnaround in the two weeks, because we would 18 have started our work prior to that.
JUDGE GLEASON:
Mr. Brandenburg?
19 l
20 MR. BRANDENBURG:
I might just point out 21 something.
I guess after some studying of the second 22 proposed schedule, Mr. Chairman, it will become all too 23 apparent that the dates for the sequencing in addressing 24 of the Westchester County supplemental testimony are or 25 were very carefully interdependent upon one another and O
ALDER $0N REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
M0 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-9300
l 4851
()
I the dates set forth in the second proposed schedule in 2
particular assumed and are dependent upon Westchester 3
County's receipt of the FEMA report on December 3.
(}
4 JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes, I understand that.
5 MR. BRANDENBURG:
That act1vity would be 6
followed by the subsequent activities set forth on the 7
second proposed schedule.
8 Now if I understand Mr. Glass to be saying 9
that that December 3 date is not realistic, t, hen we do 10 indeed have a problem with respect to that component of 11 the second proposed schedule that the Board has before 12 it.
13 JUDGE PARIS:
We perceive this, Mr.
, O 14 Brandenburg.
i 15 MR. BRANDENSURG:
While we are on the subject 16 of FEMA, Mr. Chairman, there is one other date on here 17 that is beyond the control of the committee members and 18 the Board.
That appears at the bottom of page two of 19 the second proposed schedule where we have a date of i
20 April 15, 1983 as the date being recommended by the 21 Licensees and by the NRC Staff and a March 31, 1983 date 22 as the date recommended by the interested State and 23 Intevenor representatives on the committee for the 24 filing of supplemental FEMA testimony, which would have 25 to reflect FEMA's conclusions as to the experience
(
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 62H300
4852 0
1 durin, the March 1e83 fu11-sca1e exercise.
2 Perhaps while se have the benefit of Mr. Perry 3
and Mr. Glass with us they could discuss the 4
reasonableness of our assumptions with respect to those 5
dates.
6 JUDGE GLEASON:
Gentlemen, do you want to 7
respond to that?
8 MR. GLASS:
We have conveyed to the Staff 9
through Miss Moore that the April 15 date would be the 10 date that me could meet.
11 JUDGE GLEASON:
Yes, Mr. Blum?
12 MR. BLUM:
I gather FEMA is not able to 13 expedite their presentation before what is nos December
- O 14 17 as opposed to December 3.
One way to deal with this l
15 sould be.to have the original Westchester County 16 testimony put on December 13 through 16.
17 FEMA can then come directly to the hearing and l
18 immediately give us their conclusions hot off the press 19 on December 17, anc then the Westchester County 20 of ficials ' response to that could come the following i
21 Monday or Monday and Tuesday, the 20th and 21st, days 22 that the Licensees have proposed for Westchester County 23 testimony.
24 I think to use a kind of deliberate Licensee 25 demanding every one of the 120 days and axe out the O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WALHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-9300
4853 O
i westchester Countv officiais sou1d oevioestv receive a
2 very strong reaction in many quarters.
3 JUDGE GLEASON:
All right.
Well, I think we 4
have had enough comment on the schedule and perhaps too 5
many.
6 I am about to bring this prehearing conference 7
to a close and unless somebody really has something that 8
absolutely is essential, that has not been said before, 9
that is going to really increase our understanding of 10 something, I would just as soon not open this thing up 11 further.
t 12 MS. MOORE:
Your Honor, we have one point I 13 think should be mentioned and it is an omission in the O
14 schedule because partly I think we ran out of time.
15 JUDGE GLEASON:
Then,we should get that in, 16 Miss Moore.
Go ahead.
17 MS. MOORE:
We have omitted discussing the 18 close of discovery on Question 6 and we don't have, as 1g far as I remember, the committee does not have a 20 position on that Question.
21 JUDGE GLEASON:
Thank you.
22 MR. COLARULLI:
Mr. Chairman, if I may just 23 for the record, it was agreed by the committee that 24 discovery in terms of interrogatories and document 25 requests was over for Question 6 and I believe Mrs.
O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INc.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 82H300
4854 O
1 Moore is referring to anv potenua1 for depositions.
I 2
believe that is what her reference --
3 MR. BLUM:
My perception was it was agreed 4
.with regard to interrogatories, although I am not sure 5
se reached the issue of document requests.
Those may be 6
treated the same as depositions.
7 MS. VETERE:
Your Honor, Westchester County 8
requests that the Board amend its position as to 9
Westchester County being required to respond to FEMA's 10 internal report and that we be able to give our 11 testimony during the week of the 13th.
12 JUDGE GLEASON:
I have already assumed that to 13 be your position.
O 14 All right.
I wa.t to again express my great appreciation on behalf of the Board to all of you who 15 16 participated in this prehearing conference because I think it has been constructive.
The Board will now go 17 18 back and do its job and, as I indicated at the outset, 19 se intend to pursue a speedy, economical and just l
20 consideration of the issues involved in this proceeding 21 and that is the standard that we will continue to l
22 maintain throughout the proceeding.
So I thank all of you, and please, those of 23 24 you that have materials that has to reach the Board by a i
25 certain time, thank you.
Ii
- O i
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 82H300
4855 O
i as. socae:
cae miaor etter.
we 111 he 2
submitted a written request to amend the service list to 3
add FEMA since they are playing such an intergral part.
4 JUDGE GLEASON:
I think that would be well.
5 Thank you.
6 This session is concluded.
7 (Whereupon, at 4:16 o' clock p.m.,
the 8
prehearing conference adjourned.)
9
)
10 11 12 13 O
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 O
u 25 O
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
440 FIRST ST., N.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20001 (202) 628-0300
I I
O nec 2a u r a:e n ca.+.:ss-Cu This is 40 C ertif*,7 that
- h e a t"* a c h e d ;;" O c e e d i r. g 3 Def0rt 0.~. e O
azrons was ^ron1c s^rtrr ^uo t1ctuszuo so^ao i
the 22:0er Of: Ccx1solidated Ediscn Coupany of New York (Indian Point Unit 2)-
Pche.r At*hority of the State of New York (Tnaian Point Unit 3)
Data cf Frcca'eding:
November 4, 1982 Dcckat ilu:::b ar:
50-247 SP & 50-286SP Place cf ?:"cceeding:- White Plains, New York were held as herein appears, and that this i, the.;riginal :: acsc-.i; thersef for the file of the cc==issicc, ALFRED H. WARD Official Esper:er (Typ,ed) 0 W N $dA
~
.y.
Cf ficial ?.e;=r:ar ( 51.-..ac.:r e )
I e
I l
I l
O 4
J