ML20024B172

Partial Transcript of 790718 Public Hearing

ML20024B172
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Issue date:	07/18/1979
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Text

.. _ _ _.

o 6{ &Q((

designations from tihe President's Coinnission Public

(~

Ifearing Transcript dated July 18, 1979:

't 35:12 - 37:1 39:24 - 40:20 46:6 - 46:22 49:2 - 49:22 57:11 - 57:14 58:10 - 58:18 61:11 - 62:1 l

64:5 - 65:5 l

66:15 - 67:12

{

)

75:11 - 76:18 76:19 - 76:25 77:11 - 78:18 I

79:4 - 79:25 80:16 - 81:20 m.

92:15 - 94:11 1

98:15 - 98:24 l

l 100:6 - 100:12 l

146:12 - 147:1 147:18 - 148:1 148:14 - 148:17 151:9 - 151:17 151:18 - 152:19 e

8307070213 790718 PDR ADOCK 05000289 T

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~~-n President's Commission Public Hearing Transcript dated July 18, 1979 153:11 - 154:6 155:1 - 155:4 160:9 - 160:22 160:23 - 161:11

/

166:16 - 167:15 174:18 - 175:17 176:6 - 176:17

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E a om e e ne.== e r e=. 4 = es=== e m

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I MR.

II'. ~ Y :

I had wc ked vid Mr. Lind and *' - "*' -

i 2'

.f.__.

3...:. _. _a.2,.

.s ew c__u c

_ _._. s - _,:, s_

_ w,:,..

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, respected their jud:. ent.

irnen I ex lained :he seguence c' l

4 4'

events and dey t:ld =e that the Opera:crs had been ::ained 3

to dc that er dey had been trained t s :scogni::e dat act o

casualty, I believed the=, yes, sir.

CHA~Ed_L'I KZ'ENY :

Ccc=lissioner Hac.~aertv?

3I COMESSICNIR EAGGER"'Y:

"'he high pressure inj ecticn i

i 9' syste= is really a very significant and essential safety 10, '==-" e in relatica to the reac:ce, is it no t?

I I li M2. KII.L7:

Yes.

12

• COFd.ISSICNIR EAGGIRTY:

I gather da; your concern l

i' was re'.ated :: wheder an adec.uate, comm. letel.v adequate, se:

j T4, cf instructicns was being made to the cc. erat==s da: reflected i

If all cf the as:ects of cc. eratin'1 the EPI.

i 16 !

New, c=uld you tell us what nigh he che negative ti e

17 censege.ences cf leaving E?! cn under dose cir=u=scances tha 13 a:cisted at Cavis-Besse and "".*.ree Mile Island.

~4 hat were the 19 sega_ive.hings, de had ""42gs dat cculd happen?

i 10 Ma..*-

-'?:

If de reacter c= clan: syste= leak were l

I, 21,i s=all encugh, you =ight - cr if here was act a reac:==

i

! 20

clan: system leak - you,would fill the reacter ccclan:

c r

3 i

7 22 s y s :a= c==. '.e :a '. r sclid and colla:se :he stea= bubble in :he s

1-a.

._ _ 3 "_ _d.. e..

=..d s. _= _~. d i s c.'._= _ _ _d.. g wa e o u.

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l 2

MR. K2~~./I:

I: Occid -- in,:erspective, it wculd i3,' ::ntinue :: 00c1 -he ::cle.

Y=u wculd he punging wa:en in f

I i

1 4

a ad cc: through de relief valves.

5 CIME"5SICNE2 EAGG22"Y:

In essence, nothing of real 6

conseqaence.

7 MR.

K"~.I,Y :

No.

3 CC!sCS32CNIR EAGGZ.CY:

Is there any potantial for d'-'ge by - to the system by leaving DI cn?

In c:her wc ds,

9 to act ten 4 a*d~g under the se: of cir===scances cc:11:ed; dat i's, decreasing de pressure and increasing levels, tha 11 12 you can '5[nk cf?

~

13 M2.

.o ' ? : No, there wculds' be any hing wrong with 14 leavine it on.

13 CCISCSSICNIR HAGGIR'."Y:

s='t it : ::e da:

.=P is 16 f so: present in all reacia: systa== cf de general type -- 1:

c 17 is present in all 3&W systans, but act all of dem have E3 7 I

la XR.

.-*Y:

-I'n sc :/, I can't -- : de n ' - lc cv.

.j 19 can't ce==ent en t. hat.

t I

I

, go COMM 55 CNZ2 EAGGIR""?:

"sk the i=pc : ant thing,(

l l

27 i :hcugh, is that ycu believe that D I was a significant sada:y !.

i i

I 2e

ci, and.voc were concerned ha:.ce: haps.ha ins.::ction re i.

t I

l

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, la

ing :: da

ci was no: ::=pletaly adagaa:4 se da: de s

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., a... g..e n,-.a. e.a,,,2,=>

.... y g,.u..

2 a

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8 4

arie:*r of cir: -=:ssees, isn': tha: ::: rect?

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4

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1' MR. :-~ ~:I :

Tha: is essencial17 cer:ect, yes, sir.

3, CZA ?P_Mi II:iIITY.

Cc- 'ssione: McPherson?

i 3,'

CCM: CSS 20?i22 MC?EIRSCN:

Mr. Kelly, I believe ycu i

i s aid earlier in ycur cesponses :o counsel chat when you w:cce

.t 3

the ne=ccandu= cf Nove=he: 1, you were not sure dat :here was 6

a significant safety concern.

v

--..v.

v R

7 e5 3

COMM SSIO!E.2 MC?:: -tSON:

And I as interested in the 9

neaning cf that term, since in the =e=crandun chere appears 10 this sentence:

"Since there are accidents which require the

i centinucus operatica of the high pressure injec c

system, I 12 wender what guidance, if any, we should be giving to cur cus-

3 c=ers en when dey can safely shut the system dcwn foliewing a

2, an accident. "

l 13 Oces that not express a concern ahcus safety?

g3 M2.

7-- 7 :

Yes, sir, that is why I wrote the ne=c. l venderwhatguidancel,

7 In ny # -d, the Operative words there, *

l 13 l if any... ", I was not sure when I v cce he a~

that we were adequately already,gui. ding the cus:c=ars en what to do.

39

,o l COM:CSSICNI2 MbEIASCN: So that the operation, of a l

~

1

.1, high pressure injec.ica system c: i.s te%a icn is a sivni t

,?.,,.,. fie r.: safety conce.n, but whether c no: 3&W was providing IW

' -he guide.ca was==Rnewn to you, and it was.hs : that you 3.

i e

l.,, ' dLin ' t :<.ncu.

2:2 we:e uncer ain dou: L:s sien:.ficance, Ls e

I Na. cc :S c". ?

,4 4

g.

, NW - -

_ QMMW9

I 9

1 i

1l Mr.

-"s run analyses like that, and he wculd be able oc f

f 4

r.swer da.

3 CO?CESSICME2 FIGFORD:

Yet don ' t. dink it. would make

_t a lar e difference, but dese words are quali:2:ing. Could

.c vou be =cre specific?

Ecw much didference?

6 MR..d*? :

Well, what I.=eant was, I den't think 7

tha: the isolatica of the feed water for 8 minutes at T:C II S

c: he fact hat de ene ' feed water pump tid not cc=e up ec 9

full speed a: Davis-3 esse is as significant as the small icss 10 cf cecir.: accident dat resulted at both plants.

That was

i d e overriding pc

:icn of de ::ansient that had ec he b cuch:

under cent:ci, in.y ~d-d.

3 CCN.'CSSICNZ2 ?!GTORD:

Was natural circulaticn n-s

,4 es shlished at Davis-3 esse?

MR..U'IY:

No, they.naver stoo. ped the reac c:

w 16 cecir.t cu=cs.

7 CCMMISSICNZ?. 2

G? QED:

Are ycu

"-d l' =. with the 13 p:ccedures that cperators are suppesed ec fc11cw in these j9 small break icss of ecolant accidents?

20 MR.

"Y:

I have sad the p:ccedures that cur 3.1 tr~ing depart =ent uses in their si=ulater instrue:Lons..I I

t, a= nce f=~411a with what p ccedures each individual u.ility I

a 3,

1 0

has developed fc: itself.

Jj C.*.~..~.~.a~~_~'a.'~.".a~'e'.'a'.'

.' s ~ ~. s _.~. ~ ~.~ ~ --

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f al'. =e

s:

suppcse, a: Cavis-3 esse, tha: :he off-size 4,

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, - - - =, + - - -

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j pcwer had een cst, which =eans che pu es cr.no

cperace -

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I CO}CCS5!CUIR P 0TCRD :

.e main ecoling cu==.s.

-t La.d suppose the pressurizer relief v$1ve had clcsed when ic 5

was supposed tc.

What.=recedures are che c era:ces suc.c.esed 6

to fellcw in that esse?

7 MR. KZ:. ? :

He vculd be in a natural circulation S

=cde of c=re eccling, is C.at case, se he would he folleving 9

a natural circulation p;ccedure.

10 C0!CCSSICNT.R PIG 7CRD:

Can he just let i t :.:.'s e n i1 autc=atic?. s that all he n6 cds to do?

12 MR..MY :

S.e system will fune icn at:c=atically.

13 Ee wculd have to =cniter to =ake sure hat it does func:icn 14 autc=atically.

t3 CO!CCSS':CNER.?IG70RD :

Es deesu ' t have Oc i=p cve 16 cn the autc=a ic con cis and do any hing -- cpen any valves,

.t 17 l close any valves?

la '

MR.

.M *:2:

Nc, sir.

If the systa= is lined up, i:

f l

19 l will fill up to the app cyriace level en he seccndary sida ef!

20 che staa= generaters and naturally circulate, s

1 l

21 l CO2CCSSICNZR ?!GTCRD:

Suppcse auxiliary feed wa s l

t

$. 22 I is also Icst.

' hen what==s: he do?

Ixcuse ne, le: =a ; e-i i

s cede that with a question.

If auxiliary fand wa: : is alsc s

w

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- s - = ~ ' - - -- e a ' =

"' =- ' s ' s

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=- s v.~~"

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I investigated -- le

=e answer this vay -- I investigated 1

2l :he Davis-3 esse ::ansien; and also the Three Mile Island II 3

tr ansient, and was reviewinc. the ::a:hs of the Three Mile 4

Island

::ansient, it was chvicus := ne wha: had hat.t.ened.

)

l 5

Tha 's all I can say.

4 CHA224!AN N f:

Mr. Kelly, could : : 7 Cc~ is-7 siener *.ewis' gaestien in a slightly different way?

I don't 3

ask that yet speculate whether the cperators did c did not 9

have ;;;;e: ins.=ucticas.

Si= ply the following factual ? es-

'O ti=n:

yeu: -= c andu:n cf Noveche: 1 has certain suggested 1

p =cedures.cn

.=.?

ter=.ina icn.

Suppcse hese had been Sci.

'2 loved as "".C

7

• dculd that have =ade a subs xt:ial diffex-

'3 ence in the ccurse cf he accident?

4

2. KI:1Y:

T.'.e c.uss-den is id thev. were to f=11cw 3

these ins.=acti:ns e

'6 E '. MAN.cy.I:rt:

Yes.

17 MR. F 1' Y :

-- yes, that wccid have =ade a diffa:-

la

ence, believe.

19 CZA22 MAN RIME:P?:

A favcrable dforence?

20 MR. KZ"'OY :

Yes.

21 C2122 MAN 3C"MZ2TI:

A Taite suus an.ial ene?

2,

.v_i..

.r-- - v.

v. es.

6 O

2j CZL'. MAN KIMZ2T? :

"' hank you.

C. Marks?

~

4, I 24:

C:::9. 55:C!riR MARK 3:

wan: := jus: f=11:w up en

.j 23 sc=a:hing, a 7:esti:n : heard.

Al henga ycu were act all:wed O-M pm-

-m-

_ 4 g a g.g hg

e i

i 4e i

i i

i 1l C-C ?.u '.cf KIMEN'? :

Cc:=nissicner Mc3 -ide.

W

!2 COMMISSIOUIR MC 3 RICE :

Mr. Kelly, 2 vender if 1

3( you would describe in greater detail the diddarance 4

dat folleving your instructions, as cutlined in the S

Neva+er 1st neccesadus, you outlined the difference 6

you feel that folicwing those inst =ucticas would have 7

= ado at Three-Mile.

3 MR. KILL'?:

In step 3 of that ins uc ica, it 9

says ence the high pressure injectics is initiatad, 10 don' t stop it unless average temperatura is stable er going dcwn and pressurize level is increasing and 12 pri=ary pressure is at least 1600 pounds and incraasing.

13 That's =ct what they did.

They had then going 14 in oppcsite directicas when they st=pped h. gh pressura

_)

13 injection.

I M-k if they would have left it on t

16

-2:= ugh those instructions, cara ecoling would have 17 con *-uad to he providad.

l i

I is COMMLSS!CNZR MC 3 RICE:

That means that OMI i

I

• muld have been insignificant, as opposeei cc the serious 19 20 situation we' ra scw in, and cooling continued.

2 MR..CLL*1:

That.'s ny op***cn.

It say have I

l t

I 22 caen, yes.

i i

c

.} 23 !

COMMISSIONIR MC 3R:cE:

TharJc you, sej CEA. p?G:t IIMIn!.:

"o you have fu= har questicas,

ii :5

?:cfassc: Pigford?

Tas?

w-o 9

g W & MM9

~ -

u a

m_____-_-_-

0/

3 I; discussicns vich.vr.

Kelly cn de Davis-Hesse transient.

t t

2!

MR. GOR 2ISCN :

3efore he sen this ne=cenndum?

3

.%. CCCI :

I believe so.

4 MR. GORINSCH :

And did yet.t encourage him to 5

send dis =e x::andus?

6 L.4. C C OI :

I believe in the depositions we 7

gave you, I said I did.

I think that's stili correct.

8

"'hera 's sc=e cent:cversy on actively I enceurnged it.

9 I ce:-'#-ly vculd have, and I was seeking such a 10

=- rand:=1 to he issued.

11

.u.

GORINSCN:

Ead de issue cd operato:

12 inter: :pcica of high pressure injectica heen analyzed 3, at 3ahecch and Wilecx hedore the Davis-Besse. accident?

4 MR. CCRI:

Not to =y knowledge.

/

13 MR. GORINSCN:

Was ig your view, at c= about t

16 de -* a that Mr. Kelly sent this me=crandum, that 17 3abecek and Wilecx custa=er:n should he given more is i guida.ca en the cperatica of high pressure injection?

19 MR. CUNN:

I believe I'd rather say that 20 ve were seeking a fc= n cd discussion on he issue.

i 21

?c: reasons that at that time I may not have been aware E,22 of, the ac ica in that event could have been quita E

23, p:=per.

I did.ct feel it was at that ti=e.

.2 of i

e i

j 24 today, I still dc set feel that was a p cper action.

i

} 23 Su: : veuid say we vera seeking a f= u= fc discussica w

a

-N M-W

. ~ ~ ~

I M

'. 2 I

co make a decisicn ac to whe ce: cr.c: the cperanc:s I

2, chcuid he infor=ed c: he given additional guidanca..

l i

l 3l

.u.

GC.CISCN :

You said sc=eding about sc=e-j 4

thing cc: heing a p:cpar action.

What were you referring 5

to?

4 E.- DCIN :

I vas refa :ing to 2e te.. inatien 7

cf high pressure injectien, as it occurred during that 3

transiant, specifically the Davis-Resse ::ansient of 9

Septeder 24 th.

%l 10 E. GORINSCN :

Okay.

We ' ll ccme back to =y 11 questien, sir.

Was it yeux view at that ti==

tha l

I I2 3abecck and Wilecx cus c=ars should be given =cre 12 guidance en high pressure injectien?

t.L MR. CUNN:

I suppcse, censidering that at dat ti=e, I perscnally fel.t that was inapp cgriace acticn, 15 16 then : veuld have to say that I felt that they shcuid i

17 have been given =cre guidance, c info. ed of the is ! event.

I I

19 !

E. GQRINSCN :

3efore Mr. Kelly sent his i

i 20 ! Noveder 1,1977 memorandum, did ycu speak with 3 and 2; ; W's t:ad d g depa

. ant :s find cc: what cpera cra vers l

I g

h 1 22 : hein?. aught about high pressure inf actien?

1' C

$ 22,

M. CCCI:

!c, sir, I did =ct.

a

!! 2.s E. GCCISCN:

Tcu 4.id receive a ccpy cf Mr.

a

's 25 Kelly's :cvenhe: 1, 1377 =amersndu=.

i l

l l

__.._ n

~ ~ ~ " " " ~ ~ " ~ ' ~ -

~ ~ ~ ~

l Si l

i i

13 I : respenso en this issue.

i 2

MR. GORCISCN:

Could we put in front cf Mr. Cunn 3

vnac's seen pre =arked as Cc==issic: Hearing Ixhihi. N'*e=

4 37 this is a =eco f cm 3er: Cunn to Jim Taylor, datad S

February 9 th, 19 73.

Do you have that in front of you, 6

sir?

7

.W. DUtiN :

Yes.

S MR. GORriSCN:

Is this the fc11cw-up u, you 9, jus referred to?

10

.M.

CCIN :

Yes.

11 MR. GORCISCN:

And specifically what led you 12 to writa this =e xarandum en February 9th,19787 I3

.u.

DCIN :

I * * -k the host characterizatica

.)

14 would be that I had not saan positive action, which if I c=uld in.arpret as leading ginstructions to prevent i

16 prematura cperator ta:=inaticn of high pressure injec-17 tien c asolu-J.cn of ::y c=nca:n in a fash on t.:st is, wculd say it really wasn't premature.

I 19 MR. GOREISCN:

You sant this to Jim Taylor.

20 Ea's the sanage of licensing.

Is that correct?

21 MR. CCIN :

That's cc::act.

I 22 F

.u. GCROISCN:

And why did you address this to I

e O

} 22 l hi=?

s.

j 24 {

.u.

DCTN :

I felt Mr. Taylcr was an influential i

i I

2f perse:. conca:nad wi:h safa:7 and could, sc := speak, s. art 1

{

l

. Me d 7

f'

• A 14 I'

de ball rolline.

MR. GCF.21SCM :

I see.

Now, on de second page 4

i 3' cf your necc:2ndun, you lis: as

. piers varicus c e.e:

4 individ..als in -le c:gani:acion.

Can we jusn quickly 5

go th = ugh and identiif e.cse people and what del:

6 titles are?

7 Whc is M:. Swansen?

3 MR. CCm Mr. Swanson is a supe:~risc: in te 9

integrat.ica unit.

Integratica is an additienal uni:

10 within de plant design section.

In pa--* -"' ar, I 11 helieve Mr. Swansen is Mr. Kelly's supe: riser.

12 MR. GORCISCN:

Mr. Acy?

13 XR. CCC :

Mr. Ecy, at this tir.e, was the 14 nanager of he plant design see icn.

I5 MR. GCROISCN And today what is Mr. Rey's

~.

14 position?

~

17 MR. CC Ci:

He is de na=ager of the engineering i

13 i deea e.:.:.

1 l

I 19 MR. GCREISCH:

M:. Kar:asch?

I 20 MR. CCRT:

Mr. Ia.asch veuid he ds =anage 1

21 ed de integration unit.

i 22 :l l

)

MR. CCRCISCN :

{

{

Mr. Sailay?,

l'.

l-

\\

$22 IiR. OCCT :

M:. 3a11ay is a engineer vd ' '-

-*a

~

a 1

I 24' 11:ansing seenion, assi.,.ed to ce generic licansing

• ! < ':,nL t.

6

~_ --

. ~ ~ ' * ~ ~ '

-i-

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e.

9 M

L5 1;

MR.

"C RT:

Yes, sir, I believe that's ::::act.

I 1

MR. GOROISCN :

And ces de concern that arcse l

3! cut of de events at Davis-Besse one?

i i

I A

MR. CU:RI :

Yes.

.L 5

MR. GORCISCN :

And can we icek at ce second 6

paragraph of you: February S ch, 19 7 3 =e=c, the last 7

se=:ence of that second paragraph?

'4culd you ' read that a

to: us, si:?

9 MR. CIRCI:

Yes, I disk I' d 11*<a to say that to '

up until this ti=e, I believe de===c cc=tains a descriptien of de eve =ts at Oavis-Sesse.

11 And I l

12 carry en to say, "Had this event occ=:end is a reac c:

at full power with other can insignidicant bu==up, 13 it is quite pessible, perhaps p cbable, -hat c=re 14 13 usccve:7 and pcssible fusi damage would have resulted."

~.

16 MR. GORCISON:

And what did you base da:

cn, i

17 that c=nclusien?

IS,

MR. CCNN :

Primarily =y experience involved i

19 ;! with de prediction of Icas cf ecciant ac=idents, fc I

I 20 l app:=xi=ately eight years, and a '<=cwledge -J:at high pressure injectica, u= der the 'cenditions of a less of 21 i

,I 22 ~ CCol2= = accident, is secassa:7 Oc prevent the events l

i j

[3 2 ' ve described.

i 2

1g Q4 MR. GOROISCH:

see.

It was you: 7.aw, was i:

E

[ ;

..c t, as expressed a the beginning of :he dird parsgraph, 1:

________m.u.--

-~

e 55 i

I l.

l~

i than 3abecck and Wile =x had act supplied sufficien; inic -

2; =ati:n 20 reacter cpera crs in the area of recevery f:c=

i 1

3I LOCA?

4 XR. CU:ct:

Well, inasmuch as I w cta that 5

se=:ence, yes.

V 6

.u. GORDSON:

And was this =a=orandu:: also 7

designed to p:cvide a basis for discussion?

3

.u.

CC1CT:

I believe dat was =y intent in 9

writing this.

10

.u. GORINSON :

Why were these par.icular 11 bdividuals copied.cn the memorandum to Mr. Taylor?

12 MR. CCNN:

I would say that, is all probability,

13

.t. Kelly and =yself and p cbably Mr. Swanson discussed

~

s}

l'

=y issuasca of a memo, for which I was responsible for lf de contant.

But we accumulated na=es of pacple within 16 the various secticus that we felt could start a fore.=1 17 of discussion dering which an acceptable prescriptien 13. for ta =ina ics of high pressura injec.ica could be i

I 19 identified.

20 l MR. GORINSCN :

Did you include tr.a t:-Aning 21 depa. ent 6. hat fc.=: for discussion, at all?

+

1 22 i MR. OCNN:

I dcn ' t baliava so.

1' l

t c

u 23 l

.u.

GORINSON:

Did you tal'c to de t=aining p

i I

! 24 depa an before writing your =amorzaden?

8 3 2f '

XR. OCIN :

No, sir, I did

.ot.

l

30 I

i

• A

'3 I4 i

M?.. GORCISCM :

Are you aware cd a sys e= at i

': Eal:ccck and Wilecx callad a prelimin2_-/ safe rf car.ce=

3 syu-'~?

4 MR. CCHI:

Yes.

5 MP..

GOPIISON:

And what depa==ent is :capen-1 6

sible fc that system?

Ic ad

d. start =g it.

f 1

I T

MR. CCni:

"'ha ad"4sistrati=n responsibilities 3

lie withis de licensisy sectics of de engineer S

9 depa_:

4 st.

10 MR. GOPCISON :

Is dat Mr. "'ayler's sec.ica?

11 MR. CCni:

Mr. Taylor is de persen to which 12 de f==:2 is addressed, and respcasible at laast f==

12 de initial fo::: cf d scussicas and distriturica of the 14 con ca=,

15 MR. GCatiSCN :

Way wasn' t dia =amorandu:n i

14 ! en a preliminary safetf c=ncers for:n?

9 i

17 MR. ccNN:

I.hink the ar.swer would be that I 13 fai: dat cis =amora=d::n, if it we.s suecassful 1:

,E i

i 19 1 instiga ' g a raview of my conce:r.s and achiav.sg I

I 20 rasclu icn of dese conca=s, would have been sufficient.

2', Ead dis set ac=ceplished dat is my ::ind, I believe i.

I,22 I den I would have-issued a PSC.

s 1

', 2 2 MR. GOPriSCN:

Sid you censider his

= be a I

i

'e I 24 safarf c=nca = a: to ti=a you w:=.a de namcrand =7 i} :5 MR. OCT.i :

==nsifar 1: := be a hiphiy pcssible 1

My y w

~

9

.I..

t.

57 13 I

ccncc= cc the safecy of a plant.

l 2-MR. GORCISC:t :

And sc=ething das's a highly l

I 3

possihlo concern fer ce safety of a plan:, is that l

4 sc= aching da: nor= ally gces on the pret i d"ary safety S

concern form?

6 MR. DCNN:

It would he a candidate for de 7

prel'"' P. arf safe tf concern ferm.

I would say it's not l

3 absciutely -=-datcry that it gees en that.

9 MR. COREISCM:

Sc you thought that put ing it to is =e=crandum form veuld still get the attentien you 1I believed it dese:ved.

12 MR. CQ ni:

Yes.

MR. GCROISCH :

Did X. Taylor respond to your s

\\

14 February 9th===crandum?

/

1J MR. CCCT:

I.'s unclear, en that point.

I.

t 16

=en,.icned in =f discussicas during tne deposi,.ica tha.

17 there =ay have been a telephcne con:municatica he: ween t

i 13

=yself a=d Mr. Taylor.

There was ac written ec==usica-19 ) tien.

20 MR. GOREISCH:

Well, can you tell us what the 21 substance of that telephone cen:munication was vi h i

221 Mr. Taylor?

3 I

y 23 j MR. CCnt :

Well, if, in fact, it oc=ur ced - and i

i 3

5 24 i : =entic=ed tha: : was very unclear en -Jzat, it veuld he

}i 23 vt.a: ycu' d cal'. a ghest in =y =e= cry -- de consens, as

~ ~ -

_ _ _ = = ~ - - -

' ~

• o I

i.

1 j discu.ssiens of dat na:.::a.

2 MR. GCRI;5CN:

Co you knew whac Nuclear Se:tice did l

3 wid your February 16 th =cacrandt=:?

?

A MR. CU!RI:

I know of sc=e ic11cw-up com=unicatica on 3

the =cmcrandum.

6 MR. GCR22iSCN:

What follcw-up ccmication is that, 7

Sir?

8 MR. CU RI:

Is August - c: I believe it is in August, 9

eink it is August 3rd of 1978 a meme was wri' tan f cm Mr.

10 Ocn Hall =an to Mr. Bruce Karrasch en 21s subjact.

a C

1 3

11 MR. GCRI2iS_CN:

Could we give Mr. Cuns a cdpy of what has t

12 been pra-marked as Cc-dssicn Ixhibitin-her five?

This is an ja August 3rd =emorandu= f cm D.F. Hallman to S.A. Karrasch.

Is s \\r 14 "-'s de nemorandum you were just sferring te, Mr. Cunn?

1 j.e MR. CC?tM:

Yes, sir.

4 5

16 MR. GCRI2iSCN:

When were you told about das August 3rd j7 memorandum?

ig MR. CUICT:

I a= not exactly sura.

I think it was with -

t l

9 is a =en d of March 28, 1979.

It was cartainly afta: Ma =h 28, 20 1879' l

MR. GCRI21 SON:

So it was after March 2S, 1379 ca; yet 21 t

learned about it?

22

?

I MR. CUICT:

That I became aware of it, yes, 23 l d

l e

j 3l MR. GCROISCN:

The me=crandum, you will nc a, iis ts I

3 I

.. 'ycu as ccpy "I"

in de right hand cc:nsr.

.i i

l n.-

r

~~

'~

- -. m - - - --

h

l i

5,

)

s i

1 MR. OCTU:

Yes, sir.

2i MR. GCR~NSON:

Sus := your kncwledge, and := yeu:

i3 l raccilectica, you do not : =a-er seeing ::.at =ecc:andu: beicra 4

March 23 2, 19797 3

MR. DCIII:

That is cc rect.

6 MR GCRT.iSCN Nhat was ycc: reactics when ycu heard 7 ahcut de existence of this Acqust 3rd, 1973 me=cesndum?

3 MR. CQiN:

I den't dink my reacticn is printable.

I p was ve:7 upses.

10 MR. GCRIUSCN:- Why was that?

11 MR. OCiN:

Pri=arily because 1*:, was cne of the firsy t.o [iindicators that I had that the inst =uc iens had not gene out.

l 1.4 'And I haliave I had also had vedal discussions tha:.no in-

4 st=ucticns had not gone out.

I also expected, when I heard abett l

13 it, dat I had been en d'strihetien fc

his =e=c and that wecid 16 then =ean dat I had the pcssibility -- c vculd have had the

7 possibility to again instigate actic 1 alcng.he lines of =y cen-carn.

'j a i f ;9 }

MR. GORT.iSCN Lcoking at the maccrandum itself, 20 lMuclear Se:vice, in the middle of the paragraph, Mr. Hall =an i

21 racc== ends that two incidents should be evalua:ed.

Oc ycu see

)! 22 !""a '-

r-i W

I MR. OCIN:

Itams cae a=d twc?

, 43i s

=

1 MR. GCRT.iSCU:

Tes, si:.

h J.

4 4

5 I

MR. OCIN:

?es, : see dat.

3..,

1 1

~j

~

was

- ? -

r - -

e I

l l

1 M. GC CISON:

What was your reactica to -hese c=n-2 ce=s

-h a: vere being raised by Nuclear Service?

3 MR. CC RT:

At what time, sir?

4 MR. CCRCISCN:

When you les=ed of the necerandu:n and 5

had an opportunity to road it.

6 MR. DCIN:

I think :sy reacticn would be that I did no 7 believe dem to be conce=s but worthy of evaluaticn and da I

g wculd say we should p cbably check those items for consequences hu dat in ny belief cey would not p cvide consequences severa 9

10 encugh to change de prescriptions.

yj MR. GORCISON:

Let us take a look at the first one.

12 It says that the pressuri::c: goes solid with one c: = ore HPI 33 pt==ps centinuing ec operate.

Would there be a pressure spike

..s 34 befcre the release.cpened which could cause da-age to the RCS.

1.,

Co ycu see that?

16 MR. Cinnt:

Yes, sir, j7 MR. GCRCISCN:

If that questicn were answered affi=a=

13 ve y, wedd that give rise to a safety ccncarn?

9 MR. DCCT

I think ny answer shculd bs tha: Chara are i 20 cence=s about ge6g solid when.t is not necessary but M Eia i

with the ccnditicns fc which we a:s using the high pressura 21 injection system in the event of a less of ecolant accident, t

2.,,

f I

23 this cenes= would not be as weighty as the accidea-S!

MR. GCRCISCN:

Sc it wcuid be a less significant a

,4 i

t

,. c=nes=?

Is hat what ycu ars saying?

4 l

y-

- - *~~

_l_.s__

I.1 sq 5

1!

MR. CCGI:

I thi.G that is pr bably pre :7 gecd.

i 2

!!R. GCCISCN:

What aucu; de second question?

Wha:

i' 3 damage wculd the water surge 2: ugh e.e relief valve discharge piping and quench tank cause?

Of that is answered affir=ativel*!,

4 3 dces cat give rise to any safety c=ncar=?

4 MR. DQRT:

3y affi:=atively, you mean ca da= age 7 would cccur?

3 MR. GCRCNSCN:

Yes, there is damage.

9 MR. DQRI:

Well, underwriting these cencarns wculd be 10 the pessibility that if we hadn't had a I.CCA and the prescrip icn 11 'was folicwed, thera may be the posstbility of creating ene.

l

.Ecw-12 ever, again, the prescriptien is nacasss.y to survive a less cf ccolant accident and I would say that sheuld taka precadant.

13 la We wculd =ct have, fo'r exa=ple, cera damage in dese events.

We i

13 would prebably have some equipment that wculd have to be re-16iplaced.

We would have. effluent into de reac:c building if 17 de Taench.ank, fer exa=ple, burse.

3ut we would be in a re-i 1

13 icevershle =cda.

i I

19 j

, MR. GCCISCH:

So thera wculd be equipment da= age?

s 20 that what you are saying?

)

MR. DCNN:

Well, if I break a quench tank -

censida i

?. 3-dat equipment damage.

i s

l b

23 j MR. GCCISCI:

Tcw, ce last sentanca of da paragrapn s

} 24 : cat follevs 2 se questicus, says, "y e t, ce radarances sugges

• I I

4

.a.n a..d see ce :sfarancas a:.he :cp of ycur :wc===cranda, *a l

l ene g geoqy, %,,egeesup

, etN etMN88 909"P N

-(

p..

.a;.-

---:---=.-a I?

7 1 pcssibility of uncevering the cc:2 if p:2sent F.?! policy i.2 con-

'-"ad".

See that?

3 E.

Ot!:i i:

Yes.

L.

-m v.

l 4

E. GCRI ISC:l:

Is core uncever/ a significant safety l

conce:n?

4 E. DCW:

tiet cora uncovery in itself.

A loss of 7 ccolant accident, I think is a significant safety issue.

Ckay?

3 Durig de less of ecolant accident we can undergo a car.ain ca-9 gree ci core uncovery and here, when I talk about c=re unccvery 10 I a:2 talking about two separated egions of ecoling - a regien 11 of basically water with steam bubbles located in it and I would 12 say that por.icn of the cora belcw cat regica is covered; and 13 a regica of just staan above that regica, that portien I would

)

i4 call une vered.

We can have that type of event to a certain ex-13 tant.

We cannot have a large amount of it without having severs core damage itself is not the end of de game!

16 core da= age.

Icw, m

17 Exceedingly high temperatures are required to cause the =ajor 13 cenca =s with the less of ecolant accident.

Again, these high 19 tamperatures would be possible at slightly greater core uncoverf 20 than these that wecid cause fusi damage.

23 S. GORCISCli:

When you have get cora unccverf it is

]

22 significant though, is it not?

.I 23

!!a. DiriN:

I think it is significant, yes.

l.j3

s. GCROiscri:

To you lcewledge, were dese two ques,

j, ;g.tiens L. t=a August 3rd =amerandu= evaluated by the P',a:.c j

t i

__..m__

O 4

i 30 l

Jg 3

i

~.ntag 2:ica Section2 Af ter :..c =ecerandtr. was received by hen.2 i

lJ'.. O C 01:

I wculd have to tastify with hearsay i. ford 3

3 naticn en that point.

4

.G.

GCRT.iSC:!:

Go 2.ead.

3 KR. CCni tiell, I dcn't knew tha: doy vera evaluscad.

6 What I have heard is that Nucida S ::vice was told ':4 go ahead 7 with =y instructiens - do what I wanzad dene, in cena words.

3 MR. CCRIISCN:

When were they told 2a:7 9

1R. CCul:

I den': knew tha:.

10

.1R. GC.'CISC!!:

And who was it dat teif than e.at?

11 MR. DCRI:

3:uce Karrasch told no that he cid the=

I2 Dat

• 9 13

!!R. CORINSC:!:

id he give v.ou a time when he told

4 them that?

j3 MR. CCIN:

No.

V i

'Q MR. GCRT.lSCN. L4: me have placed in front of you whag I

1. has been pra-carked as Exhibit Six and also Exhihi Seven.

O.ase 1

13, ara notifica icns dat were sent out by Babecek and tiLiccx fel-39 lowing de OC I en supplamentary operating inst:.:ctions ic f 20 ithe Ep systam.

Cna is datad April 4th, L979 and that is Ex-:

2,..hibit Six.

Exhibit Seven is dated April 17th, 19 ~9 -

?

C3A!.'U!AN K::MI:TY:

Did I hear you stata e.at these waru

?

2., !

a

.,a sent cu afta:.de O.rae Mila Island accidan:7 w

N A

[.2 I*

MR. GO.CTSCN:

Yes.

Mr. Dunn, were you consultad j3, pric: to e.a -' a de April 4 2, 19 79 1..s.ru=:icns := cus:c=ars l

]

n

'=

~ ~ ~ " -

~~

T

a 31 f

1 twen cut f: e n 3 rn d W7

'l MR. CU:m:

Yes, sir.

3 MR. GCRCISON:

And do you knew if your February 9 2 i

l 4 and Februa:f 16 th =e=cs were reviewed before this ins tructicn was 3

sent cut to the customers?

6 MR. CCNN:

I believe that these instructions relied 7

heavily on my input and in creating the ideas which were to be a

supplied to the operating plants, I relied on my February 16ch 9

meme.

10 MR. GORINSCN And to your kncwledge, was this tha first *"a that the company had sent out the supplemental in-12 structions that you were requesting he sent out?

MR. Em:

F cm de sabecck and Wilcox Cc=pany cc da 13 i#

operating utilities, yes, I believe we had communication with 32 3,

the NIC in which basically supplied this fc=mul pric: to d a

~.

c issuance of this, 16 MR. GORO!SCN:

But prior to that ti=a, the sc===: ended j7

3 precedurs set out in the Tebruary 15ch =amorandum had not gene

• "* * ** * *****'I 19 MR. CUNN:

"*c '.f scwLadge that is cc::act.

p R. GOR 3170

• Aht: 7, which is the April 17th 21 y 22 revisien

medification to the original suppler.antary instruc7 tiens, could you a:cylain the basis for dat modificatien, sir?

,3 7

(

2 hR. CCNN:

I nay not he able to explain 'the basis I-Z.a :

s g

! totally but I dink I can shed a considerable a= cunt of licht c=

a

.s

)

i l

I l

.__e iJ __

_---m e.-

. _. - 7 ~*

h-..w

p 39 2 ']

1 CGIR:tMI KZ:TiY:

se c:dered.

g 2

(Se doc =ents previcusly =a:Med for.

for identifica-icn as I:e.ibi s 3 l

3 through 9 were received in evidence. :

4 MR. GOR ::SCN:

I have no further questicns.

5 CGIRMAN.CCE:

Mr. Dunn, ycu are Manager of the 6 ICCS Analysis ' Unit within planned design, is that ec::ect?

7 MR. DUNN:

Sat is cc: rect.

3 CHA ~RMAN.CdENY:

And vculd it be cc: ect :c say that 9 the ICCS system is one of the very i==c tant safety systa=s 10 wicin the nuclear pcwer generati=n systa=?

11 MR. CUNN:

I would believe that.

12 CEA 3. MAN KI.TE:

Serefore, in effect, you hold a is highly respcnsible posi icn?

14 MR. DUNN:

Yes, sir.

1J C2 AIRMAN.CfE:E Widin dat context I vculd like to t

16 turn to your initial me=crandum, the =e=crandu: of Tehruary 9 --

17 ycu don' t need t= icok at it in detail, I am no: going to ask la.ycu detailed questions about it - but I a= curious. hen hcw 19 =any ne=cra=da. vaguely of that sc have you writ an in the pas:

20 few years?

I =ean, is it ene, is it ten, is it a hundrad?

l 21 MR. CCNN:

3eing. as you have used de wc f. =encrandum,

{22 f::= r/self c: =/ unit - I =igh: very well delegate such a se=c-

{

m., rand = to sc=ebcdy else -

e i

l

} 24 [

03A 3: DAN KI::Z:U:

Tes, understand dat.

=

r I

MR. ::C:iN: ' Sere may be fcur c: fivs.

=an :scall :x 6

\\

i l

1 I

i k

e m_

.4 a*-, emha

.W

.aum---mm=e-bN

_m l

93 b 1 l at 2'

this time.

l 2'

CEAIRMAN KZtr.iY:

Very gccd.

You recall two hu t.e:s

}

3 inay have been four c: five.

At any rata is is act twenty c:

I 4

thrity =e=cranda.

5 KR CCIRI:

No, sir.

6 CHAI~f.AN KDLINY:

So it is not an example that your 7 unit would have been ficcding the cc=pany with memoranda of this 3 kind?

9 MR. DIRIN:

No, sir.

I believe we do cur job very well.

10 I would say we are not necessarily perfect but the instance iI where we have to do these kind of things are not daily.

12 CHA.~CIAN KIMENY:

To the best of your rec =Llection 13 have your other =emoranda used phrases cughly similar to "this I

la is a very serious matter and deserves our pecmpt attertien"?

15 MR. DUNN:

Nc, I think that phrase was picked because 16 I had net seen acticn.

Ckay.

The other re=crandu=s am re-l 17 calling, we had started acticn and action va under way.so I i

13 'dcr. ' t think that par icular phrasecicgy would be app cpriate.

t i

19 CHAIRMAN KIMENY:

Yes.

So is that ma.cner you were 20 psing that phrase in effect, because you felt action was i=por-I.

21 tant is this case?

22

!a. DC:CI:

At this time that is =y raccliscticr. of wayj '

r:

5 23 I used it, pri=arily f c= the wc ds here. I den's remacher.

8i i

i 24 l ca.A anAN KI::r.:Y:

Ecw concerned ws:s you lazar that i

I t4l23 rear that ycu were no seeing actien?

f m.

ee N'^

.~..

s r

I i

hd 3g ::

I'

?!R. OCRT:

vas =.conce =ed.

I was Operatinc = de r l

2 l de ass =ptien -hat we had reached agraecen and ca: acti n I

a had :2xan =t2ca.

i A

Cu ?217dl K2:T.rt :

Yes.

By action hera, I assu=a fcu 5 nean 2st you ecught can p::=er instractions -- instracti na 6 you censider pr:per had been sent to cust cers, would ca: he 7

cc :act?

3 2.. DCini:

Well, I would defa: en the werd instructi:n 9 and say cat at de least we had p =vided des wie de incidence Cf Dav's Desse and the opper:=ity to avail de=selves of the 10 11 instructi:ns.

L 12 N.V.AN KD1DT?:

That was your assu=ptien and ca:

ja is why you were not =cre concerned?

1 14 MR. CCIN:

Yes, i

1 *<

CHA!3 MAN KI.'GCT?:

Other cccmissicners?

C:mmiss'icner

~.

I6 McPhersen?

,9 17,

COPJCSSICNIR MC33235CN:

[ust a brief recapitulation:

i is 'You v:::a the first =amera.dum en February 9 2, 1973 and you E

19 succeeded dat with one en Tehraary 16th, 1978, both peinting

!t= dis.:ctantially sericus pr:blem.

On August 3:f., 19 7S Mr.

l 20 I

i 7; lEa11=a.. in Nuclear Services expressed seme conca=s una they i

y 22 :had and said that as a :ssult cf these cenca=s and : heir lack

'1 i

, -- cf resclu icn, dere had been no neceds, no inst := icas,

u

=c s

e

,F. ' rece=endaticas sen: :: : s :=ers.

7inally, en April 42, 197?

8 i:

in.s :::- :ns were sen: ::: vnich wars a= ended en April 17th, 1373.

4 i

4 g

g.

.W W

.-.u...._.

y j

c i sg 25 1

'~h at may he nors accurata as :: dc centen: of e.a

=ecc.

2l CO22:235 CNIR MC?EIRSCtt:

t,Tas da: re=c sent := 3 and i

i I

1 3

W7 1

MR. 0GRI:

Nc

= =y kncwledge.

3 COf1MISSICNIR MC2HIRSCN:

It re=ained wicin de Nucian:

6 Requiatery Cor:=tission?

7 MR. CQRi:

" hat is my kncwledge at cis time, yes, sir.

3 Ne have cat =e=c new.

9 COMMISSIONIR MC?EIRSON:

But you had no kncwledge of to it during February 1978?

11 MR. Dani:

That is the state of my kncwledge.

Tha:

12 is =y cpinien, yes.

We did act knaw atsut ca

=-di aftar ja! ar=h 28, M

1979.

1.g CHAIRP.AN KI:!I::Y:

Cc::=tissicner Pigford?

13 CO!SCSSIONIR P!G70RD:

Mr.

Du==,

sferring ec ycur e

i 14

sec:::=enda-den in your ce=crandt=t of February 15, ycur second l.

rece:::=endatien - the het lac. -- let de het p sssure injec ica, e

I i

g l he such dat the het leg tamperature is mera can 50 degrees t9

Fahrenheit beicw de sa:uratics tamperature - was it you 20 expectatics that this would be an instructicn ec de opera:c:?

21 MR. DUNN:

Was i

.y scommendaticn?

y 22 C0f0CSSIONIR ?!G70RD:

Was i ycu a:cpectaticn tha:

[

o 4

dis would.laad to inser cuien to de Opera c ?

I 3,

p s

e MR. OCni:

Tes, sir.

=

Et 4

3 C :0C3S 0MI3 P GTORO:

Was i: ycur =dars tanE q 24:

b Ma.

wo b hw.

6A.,

,m,

_AAN@44+ gia (!KPRpC*rAtr---

e9%' O 6%er e

• ICC i

39 23 CO6SE55:0:CR ?!GFORD:

Gcne cue prev:.cusly?

I

\\

l l

2 MR. OCTII:

20 nay have gene cut previctr.. ly.

3:

CD StISSIC:ER ?!GFORO:

Abeu: when would you din.'O I

4 MR. OCfN:

I am not sure.

It i.3 cc tainly act very 3

hard to have access to that indo - acicn.

4 CCISi!SSOC C ?!GFORD:

Was it your understanding hat.

7 de cpersec s at de 3 and.W plants nor. ally do dis translation 3

to cb"'n pressura and to cbtain saturation tanperatura?

Was 9

it your understanding at the ti=e you w cta this =e=crandu=?

10 MR. DCIN:

I dcn' t thin.4 I asked =yself that ques,.icn 11 I wculd think it would be ny understanding that day did net.

I2

=c:.. ally de that.

13 GitcCSSIotER P:G70RD:

Did you have any k=cwledge

,t4 as to whether that translation was included as par. of de raining p cgra= at 3 and W'?

13 3

16 MR. CCIN:

No, I did not.

17 C0:28. SSICtER P GICRD:

You have no kncwledge?

13 !

MR. CCT:!:

I'have no kncwladge.

19 CZAI. VAN K'*:ENY:

Cct:missicner Mar sts?

20 CO22C33:CtER MARRI O :

I would li.ka Oc go back to 21 i ycur -=~c cf February 9c, ce -%d:d pa ag:sph, ce incids==

Y, 2.e cin s cut that we have net sur. lied suffician inder=a ics to c

l' l

k

j. 23 i :nac c: cperators, is da rafaranca cera c :he c:ill:y c s

a f

4 de actual ersen?

+

s9 MR. OCT T:

Yas, ce wc:ds pr:bably are slightly e

• f so

-l

==7

,{

~.'

4 y

r, e.

'I

--m=-~

1-

.. o.

t

q 2

i i getting a piant all aligned. initially, testing.ne peric:=ance r

4 cf de plant ho" ' - d -' = ' ' y and subsecuently hun nainly in c.e 3

c=cratica and peric. ance area.

4 MR. RCC Ci'c.*.J :

And Mr. Nalters, specifically, what is 5

ycur job as the Super risory Ingineer in c.e ? Lant Perder- '- ce 6

Services Section?

7 MR. WAL5 2S:

My respcasibility is again, =ainly to 3

supply p ccedures, mainly testing p ccedures that we think ara 9

necessary to test the plant either in de initial start-up c 10 in.he case of relayed cycles on cperating reactors, sain$f 11 ccolant physics testing.

v 12 MR. RCCK~dEIl.

Mr. tialters, I dizact your autantion 13 to 'dearing Ixhibit nu=ber 1, which should he en your **Hle.

De 14 you have it before you?

It is a =amorandum f:cm Mr. Kelly to 13 a

"-+er of individuals c

I4 MR.. WAI 7RS:

Yes, we have a c=py.

7 MR. RCC CiE.~

You have 'dearing Ixhihit n'-"er i befera 3

veu?

i 9

M. WAL333 :

Yes, sir.

s 20 MR. RCN :

Oc : cc :ectly identiff it as a Wvee her 1.st, 1977 memorandum f cm Mr. Kelly to a s'-"er of indivi-2, il duais?

1 32 i,

1,

.,3 MR. iG.*.3RS:

': hat is==::ac.

i i

i

y. 3' MR. RCCri'-- * :

Cid that =e=cra..dum :c=a := your a:-

entien 4: sc=e pois: en c ahcut Ncve=her ist, 1377?

s-

i l

\\

1 i

! '.7 3

1 MR. WM.CRS :

Tha t is cc::ect, l

i

j YP-. E m~ '- ~_

• Sc:e Ed is ccre so ycur accanticn?

I 3 i MR. WAL5RS:

I received it in my in basket f cm r.y

.t i=cdia a supervisor, Mr. Hallman.

3 MR. RC CdELL:

And where there any instructions when 6

it came to you?

7 MR. b'AL* IRS:

Yes, sir.

It has something on the ordr : of what do I think about this, or semaching lika : bat.

3 MR. RCCXb~dLL:

Did you talk to Mr. Hallman at that 9

~*7 10 jj MR. WAL* IRS:

I do not racall.

I p cbabiy did.

12 MR. RCCKW-* 7-Did you respcnd to the Kelly memoran-13 d= in connection with Mr. Ha11 man's noce to you?

s

)

gg MR. WAL* IRS Yes, I did.

MR. RCCKWILL:

In preparing you*' res'cnse did you con

g

~.

8 16 suit with scum pecple at Babcock and Wilcox?

MR. WALTIRS:

Yes, I did.

37

. _ _. o MR. RCG C I rafar 'icu nw to Hearing I:ht Nc-13 7 ber 2.

39

o you have that befors you?

i MR. WALTIRS:

Yes, I do.

i20 i

I MR. RCCKWELL:

And is that vou ssconse to Kelly 's 21 t

Movember 1st, 1977 =emorandt=1?

22

(

MR. WALTIRS:

Yes, that is true.

e 23 g p

sj MR. RCCK;I L:

Oc I corrac.ly identify i: as a :leve=-j g

i I

bar 10 th, 1377.emcrandum f :s yourself t= Mr. Kelly?

s 9

4 e

W ~ ~ _ _ _ _,

4

-,,w-.,-~

ew.

~

/

l in 3*

M MR. NAI.SRS :

Yes, sir, j

i i

MR. RCCKWi" * :

In crec.arine. v. eur rasc. ense, can vcu l

i e

3 tell me who you t2 nad ec 2 a and N?

4 MR.

UAI."' IRS :

Well, yes.

I hate :astified beicra 5

that I taned with ex training personnel vicin - outside of 6

de training depa -ent but still wi2in Nuciaa Services.

7 Since the last deposition, I am a little ha:7 cn de actual 3

pecpla : taned to - ! caned to the three pecple identified 9

before, !ir. Gcasolo, Strast, and Smith.

At this

~4 e only M.r.

10 Smid remembers =e taning with him en this mattar.

11 MR. RCCKWIll.:

This is based en ccnversations which 12 ycu had wi e dese trae pecple since your deposi:icn?

13 MR. WAL* IRS: That is cor: set.

r 14 MR. RCCIWI 2,4 In raviewing de Kelly memcrandu=,

15 when it ca=a to you, did you believe tnat it raised a valid s,

t 16 point?

17 MR. WAI."' IRS :

Yes.

e 13 MR. RCCL M :

id you have any ccncarns ahcut the 19, vay Mr. Kelly had raised his prescription?

20 MR. WAI.TIRS :

Yes.

We - I say ve, me and 21. Smi e -

21 altar talking vid his, we did have some c=ncarns.

[. 22 MR. RCG.u a.:.:

Mculd you describe them please?

i

} 23 ;

l MR. VA." IRS:

As : sca ac befera, I want to =aka sc:aj 1

IJ 24 ve ge de p ccass p :bably because of,:ur 1..put, our ccnce:.

Ii 2f was add:sssing a ncn-i.CCh LnLtia:c: ::ansLan, and cve::ccLLnq N

sn m. m mm mm s M

_..=-;-.-.......-

l 1,

t..-

ladze in de fall cd 1977.

2.s dat cc::act?

Answer:

Yas.

.s; 2i da: ::r. scrip t accurata?

I 3!

ta. NALn RS:

Yes.

4 MR. RCC.W EI.L:

2.at was based c:n your kncwledge and f

e:cperience, having been an e=picyee at Sabcock and Wilecx for 6

scme eight to ten years as of the f all i.n 1977?

7 MR. WALERS:

I think it is fair to say dat in scst 3

general cases that is true.

No in all cases, a

9l MR RCCKWI.L:

Referring you nc.<,

.t Walters, Oc ce:

10 seccnd paragraph cf your memorandum, let me read the first il sen tence :

• ty assumptien and the training asst =es first that 12 RC Pressure and Pressuriser Laval will trend in the same directica 13 under a *.CCA.*

Is that an accurate reading cf the sentence?

S la MR. WALTERS:

Yes, sir.

If MR. RCCKWI*La Co ycq believe that nuclear raacec:

16 cperators in general at that ti=e had the sa=e assumption?

17 MR.

'# ALTERS:

I think sc.

[l MR. RCC.UEI.L:

Referring you new to the four.h para-19 i graph, Mr. Walters, I quota:

• 3 you intand to go solid,' this 20 is en page two, "If you intand to go solid what ahcut p:cblems ' 2'i 1

last year, you were sed '1 pushing - if I may use that werd --

~

r 3

":i 2*

to get this resolved.

I t

i 24 2. WAL.ssS:

Tha: is true.

1'-e 02A~3 MAN EMI rt:

Aed was it at any time pric:

=

~

L_-______-_---___

--.w

~

g g n _.n.

o io i

~;C 9 March of'cnis year resolved cc yct: sacisfactien?

-I t

2' MR. WALTT.23 :

? icr to March of chis year?

I 6

3 CEAIRMA1T K?.MF.:IY :

Yca.

4 MR. WALTIRS:

Sic, it was nce ecsolved Ec =y satis-5 faction.

~

6 CEA RMAN ;M IY:

liet resolved.

Therefers, fece 7

this testimony, if your concerns had net existed Mr. Dunn 's l

3 February =emorandum might have been cut tc the custc=ers say 9

in March c April of last year c if the August =amerandu=

10 had been responded to fairly pecmptly, the infcrmatica might

'l I have been cut to the custcmers bes are the and of calenda

'78..

i 12 MR. WAL..sS:

I think that i.s a fair assumption.

l 13 CHAIRMAN e*CT.ME;TY:

3ct these events did not happen la and theredere Three Mile Island i did act have these instructi=ns i

15 cr inst =uctiens like these available pric: to the accident.

)

16 MR. *ALTIRS:

They did act have infermation f cm 17 this particula

=emo I sent to them, k-Ta Thank you.

You are excused, subject to recall and

.I 19 given the lateness of the hour, the Commissien will recess 20 cntil 10:00 A..M. temor:cw =cening.

l 21 1

(Thereupon, the ccmmission was recess until 10 :00 22 A. M. on.Tuly 13, 1979.)

• )

44 -

JlJ 24 i

_ _ _ _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.. _ _