ML20024B162
| ML20024B162 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 07/06/1979 |
| From: | Walters J BABCOCK & WILCOX CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-*, TASK-03, TASK-04, TASK-07, TASK-10, TASK-3, TASK-4, TASK-7, TASK-GB GPU-6047, NUDOCS 8307070165 | |
| Download: ML20024B162 (17) | |
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Designations from the President's Commission Deposition of James F.
Walters, dated July 6, 1979:
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2 waiters 5
3 A
I am not sure.
I believe he put on there, "Take action on this" or something of that order "What do you think about it," something like that.
I'm not sure about that.
6 Q
Did the copy of that memo which came to 7
you from Hallman end up in your files?
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
Is it still there?
10 A
Yes.
11 Q
could we have a copy of it?
A 8"#**
12 Q
And your recollection is.that.the hand-g written note on the memorandum had something to do 14 with requesting you to take action?
15 9
A or requesting me to look into it further, some-16 thing like that.
17 Q
Is it your recollection that Mr. Hallman's 18 note was written right on the copy of the memo?
19 A
Yes, sir.
f Q
. showing you what has been, marked as Dunn 20 Deposition Exhibit 35, do you recognize that document?
A Yes, sir.
22 5
Q Is that a memorandum from you to Mr. Kelly?
23 A
' I t-certainly is.
24 Q
Did you draft that memorandum following
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3 your receipt of Kelly's memorandum through Hallman?
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A Yes, I did.
g Did y u e nsult with anyone in drafting 5
that memorandu=, Exhibit 357 6
A Yes, I did.
7 Q
Who did you consult with?
8 A
I consulted with certain people in customer 9
their opinions on this particular subject.
Service about 10 g
who?
11 A
As I state in the first line, I said, In talking 12 with training personnel".
I reckon we should make clear at this time that I should have said "ex-training 13
" personnel that are presently employed within the rest of Customer Service."
~
15 Q
can you give me names?
16 A
Yes, Cal Goslow, Herb Smith and Bill Street.
17 Q
Did you talk to anyone else in your 18 department?
19 A
I do not remember at this time.
I may have.
20 MR. GALLEN:
Could you clarify one thing.
You said they were ex-t' raining personnel.
21 Ex-training personnel at the time you talked to 22 them or ex-training personnel now?
23 THE WITIESS:
They were ex-training 24 personnel at the time I talked with them.
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3 scid?
4 A
En has the title with B&W as e n g i n'c e r.
I do not know if he is a formal college graduate, if that is 5
what your question asks.
2 i.
Q Why did you consult Mr. Goslow?
t A
Because of his past training and experience with the operators here at B&W.
9 Q
When you consulted with hi=,
did you 'show
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him the Kelly memorandum?
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12 Q
And then did you show.him the draf t of D
your response, or were you formulating your response 14 at that point?
A I was foraclating my' response at that time.
15 7-i Q
What was his reaction when you showed him the Kelly me=orandum7 17 A
I, don't remember at this time.
We discussed, 18 you know, the general context of what the statements 19 were and what they would lead to in our opinion, but 20 the specifier I don't remember.
I 21
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Q Did he end up making any suggestions to 22 you?
l A
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23 Q
You just draw a blank as to the substance of'your conversation with him, is that what you are 25 saying?
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f Q
Was lir. Smith one of the persons who was an ex-trainer?
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A Yes.
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Q What was his background in training?
7 A
His background, as far as I know, is he is 8
ex-Navy, and he had also been a senior instructor 9
in the saw'; raining Group.
10 Q
And during what years, to the best of 11 your knowledge, had he been senior, instructor in the f
B&W Training Group?
l 73 A
I am not sure exactly when he arrived as senior instructor.
He was in the Training Group from 14
'71 to
'76, too, I reckon in that area.
15 Q
Did you show him Kelly's memorandum when 16 you spoke with him7 17 A
Tes, I did.
IB Q
And do you recall what his response or 19 reaction was?
l A.
I believe his response was that there was too 20 many "and's" in the instructions from Kelly.
J '
Q Yes.
What does that tman' 22 q
A Well, the scenario here was that we were trying l
23 to understand what was being said, and how could we 9'4 break it down in simple and straightforward instructions 25 to the operators?
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We thought that there was too much for him to rc= cuber in the perticular instructions that Mr. Kelly 4
had written about it.
We were trying to find a si=pler
,a way of passing it on to the operators.
Q Di'd Mr. Smith question the underlying i
assu=ption or concern of the Kelly nemorandum, or 8
did he accept it as being valid?
9 A
I think he accepted it as being valid.
10 Q
Did it appear to you to be valid?
I 11 A
The concern, yes.
Q Eow ab out Mr. Goslows did he appear to g
accept the concern as valid, to your recollection?
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A I think so, to the best of my recollection.
14 Q
Were the substance of your conversations 15 with Goslow and Smith addressed to the instruction that f
16 Mr. Kelly had formulated and its appropriateness?
17 A
Would you repeat that.
18 Q
Yes.
Was the substance of your conver-sation with Goslow and smith addressed more to the 19 instruction, to what should be told to the operators?
gg A
Yes.
Q And you consulted deslow and Smith 22
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because of their contacts with operators in the past?
23 2
A Because of their palt training and experience, 24 yes.
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Q You thought they would be able to help 4
you for=ulate that instruction in terms which might 5
A Yes.
Mr. Kelly was asking for comments on 6
this subject, and we were trying to draw together 7
comething that we thought would be very easily 8
remembered by the operators, something that we 9
could give to them, in effect.
-V 10 Q
How about Street?
What was his position 11-at the time you talked to him?
A I'm not sure what his position was, but I knew 13 he was in the New Equipment Section of Customer g
Service.
14 Q
Was he a former instructor 7 15 3
A Yes.
16 Q
In the B&W Training S'.ctien?
17 A
That is correct.
l Q
And to the best of your knowledge, when had 19 he been an instructor in the Training Section, what gg years?
A About the same. time as the other two, the sa=a 21 area.
I dont know exactly when he came.
22 Q
Do yet have a=y understanding as to why 23 Goslow, Smith and Street had moved from the Training t
i 24 Section to the section where they were when you talked i
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see if un could conc to an agrecuent oa come aclution.
4 Q
Did Goslow proceed to do that?
A To the best of my knowledge he did.
-a Q
What did he do?
A That I'm not sure.
All I can cay is that he did 7
have conversations with someone in Integration and 8
with Bert Dunn.
I am not sure at what time or the 9
details of conversations he went into.
This is like 10 occurring over the next, I don't know, two, three, 11 four months.
12 Q
You say there were more discussions with Bert Dunn in two to four months following Dunn's.
g second memorandun?
A To the best of my knowledge.
15 Q
Were you eVer a participant in these g
16 discussions?
17 A
Ho, I wasn't.
Q once the first Dunn memorandum came into 18 19 the Nuclear Services Department, who in the department 20 war.in charge of coordinating the response to it?
A I reckon the answer is really, no one was.
21 Q
Who was taking the lead?
- ]
A I reckon once Mr. Pittman gave the letter to
- 23 Bill Street, he came over and talked with me, and I 24 accepted responsibility for actir y on it.
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Walters 04 3-
"I have talked with certain people, Integrction 4
peopic, or with Dert, and we finn 11y enne to the conclusion that Integration is the best area to recon-a cilo the concerns I had had and the concerns that 6
Bert Dunn had."
7 As I renenber it, he said he then took over 8
with people in the Integration, Plant Integration, to 9
try to resolve this problen.
Goslow said that.
10 Q
At what point did he start having dis-11 cussions with people at Plant Integration?
After 13 February?
I~3 ~ A dhe specifics I don't remember.
1 Q
Referring to Deposition Exhibit 37, I 14 think that Hallman came back onto the scene with 15 respect to their discussion at some point, is that 16 correct?
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How did Hallman get brought in?
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A Well, I had discussed before August 3rd, when t is me=
vas written, I discussed with Mr. Hallman, 5
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I don't know how many times, but a few times, concerning the Bert Dunn memos and the reactions we T
were getting from Plant Integration.
8 Q
What did you tell him?
9 A
I told him that I thought we were getting little response and that we needed to take more action on 10 11 them.
C Q
Then what happened when you told his you were getting little response?
What was his reaction?
g 14 I am not sure, but I think it was along the
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A lines of "What should we do to see if we can hurry it 15 up and get a response to it," and evidently the answer 16 was, "Let's try writing a letter to Karrasch, manager 17 of Plant' Integration."
10 Q
Was that your suggestion?
19 A
Yes.
20 Q
Actually,it was.a memo to Karrasch?
~
A Yes.
21 j
Q Who had you been dealing with up to the time the memorandum went from Hallman to Karrasch on 23 August 3rd?
Who had you or Goslow been dealing with 24 in Integration?
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A I an n e sure.
Y u have to ask Goslow that.
I believe it was a guy naned Lou Cartin, I believe, 4
in Integration.
Somebody had been in contact.
a Q
I take it Goslow had ' ad a number of 6
conversations with cartin?
7 A
As far as I know, yes.
8 Q
What was cartin's position?
9 A
That I don't know.
r 10 Q
Mr. Ha11 man's memorandum to Karrasch was 11-sent to Mr. Karrasch because Mr. Karrasch is head of Integration?
gg A
Manager, Plant Integration.
Q Is it fair to say that the memorandum was 14 sent to shake some. action out of Plant Integration?
15 A
The memo was written to express two concerns 3
16 that we had over the suggestions or instructions from 17 the Bert Dunn memos and ask Integration to let's try M
to reconcile these so we could establish either a 19 change in our policy" or a change in. the procedures to our perating plants if they were indeed needed.
20 1
Q I take it the original reason for sending i
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certain technical issues, was to prompt some action?
23 A
Yes.
24 Q
The technical issues addressed in the f 25 l
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memorandum had already been raised in discussion between Mr. Goslow and Mr. Cartin, to the best of your knowledge?
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-O A
That is true.
6 Q
Then what happened after this August 3rd 7
memorandus went out?
8 Nothing is written down.
Mr.
A Very little.
Hallman told me that he had contacted Bruce Karrasch 9
a couple of times on the memo.
I, in turn, talked to 10 11 Joe Kelly once or twice about the memo and later it g[
turned out that Joe Kelly had no previous knowledge o f this partic'ular me=o, but I didn't know it at that g
time.
14 Q
of the August 3rd meno,,cu mean?
15 2
A That's correct.'.
16 Q
What did Mr. Hallman say his conversations 17 Karrasch covered?
with Mr.
18 He never said anything of any particular nature.
A 19 72e said I contacted hi=, and that was about it.
contacted him in what regard?
20 Q
A We were going to supply a resolution or answer 21 the particular memo.
Q Did you ever go to Plant Integration and talk to someone and say, " Hey, are we going to get a 2?
response"?
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A Like I said a moment ago, the only person I was 4
going to was Joe Kelly, and at that time he was not aware f the meno I was talking about.
5 Q
When did you speak to him?
I A
sometime during the summer.
I said, " Hey, Joe, 7
when are you going to respond to that meno, and he 8
didn't know what I was talking about.
9 Q
Had Joe Kelly told you that he was
. 10 continuing to be involved in the issues raised by the 11 Dunn me=orandum7 12 A
No, he had not.
g Q
You just addressed this comment to Kelly because you knew he had been involved in,the previous fall?
15
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A I assumed that he wrote the November 1,.1977 16 memo, that he was still involved, which was erroneous.
17 He was never involved after that, is that Q
18 what yon learned since?
19 A
That l's what I thought it was,. but I didn't say 20 he was never involved: I do net inuw.
21 Q
Do you know if anything else happened other than what you have told me between the time cf 3
s the August 3, 1978 memo and March 28, 1979, and when I refer to "anything else happening," I am speaking f
l 24 in' terms of advancing the resolution of the issues l
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Walters Q
Are they resolved insofar as there is a f3 T
4 prescription in Bulletin 79-057 Are you satisfied with that prescription?
Are you familiar with that?
5 A
I am not sure I know what is in 79-05.
Q Let me refer you to a supplementary operating instruction which was sent from Babcock &
8 Wilcos to the operating utilities pproximately a week 9
after the accident.
(Handing.)
10 Were you involved at all in reviewing and 11 approving the operating instructions set out in that 12 document which is Olds Deposition Exhibit 1027 A
r was not involved in the review of this.
g Q
Those recommendatio'ns reflect substan-g
.tially the recommendations that Bart Dunn had arrived at back in February 1978, is that correct?
16 A
I think that is correct.
17 Q
Dc you know whether those recommendations, 18 forth in Olds Deposition Exhibit 102, as they are set 19 are acceptable to you or resolve the concerns that 20 you had during 19787 2]
A No, they do not resolve my specific concern.
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MR. EDGAR:
Have you read that completely?
u --
Take your time.
A Well, the one particular item in it, the leaving 24 of HPI pumps on for 20 minutes, is the question I was 25
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asking eccenticily in my August 3rd memo, and that has l
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so if I understand correctly, your concern remains, although the instruction has gone out to the operating plants?
7 A
Yes.
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8 MR. EDGAR:
On the basis of that instruc-9 tien and that instruction alone?
10 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
l 11-Q Now, referring you,.to Olds Deposition l
12 Exhibit 103 which is a revision in the operating g
instruction would you take a moment to review that Exhibit if you are not familia'r with'it.
(Handing.)
A All right.
Q Do the changes reflected in olds Depo,sition 16 Exhibit 103 address your concern?
17 A
I think they do address my concerns, yms.
18 g
Do they resolve it?
19 A
Yes.
20 Q
Were yen involved in the revision in.the 21 procedure from the form it took in the April 4th distribution to the form it took in the April 17th 22 distribution, referring respectively to olds Deposition Exhibits 102 and 1037 l
24 A
To the best of my knowledge, I wasn't.
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Q You were not?
4 A
I was not.
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oid you ever talk to ser: Dunn after the August 3, 1978 me= randum fron Hallman to Karrasch 6
about the subject of his memorandum and before March 28, 1999?
8 A
If I remember correctly, I have never talked to 9
Bert Dunn about his me=orandum or the August 3rd 10 me=orandum.
'N Would that be true up to and including 11 g
12 today?
g3 A
ch, about the specific memos, that is true, I have not talked.
14 Q
Have y u ta ed v :
sert cunn about the 15 3
general subject matter addressed by t'he memos?
A I have talked wie: Bert ab o ut the general subject 17 matter of T.MI 2 when we were rewriting precedures or 18 right af ter the event: up there.
Now, whether or not 19 these particular memos or the subject ca=e up, I 20 don't know.
21 (continued on following page.)
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3 Q
To the best of your knowledge, had the 4
cubject of the concerns raised by the Kelly =c=oranda 5
and the two Dunn memoranda,and the information re-ever been transmitted to any of the operating
- flected, 6
utilities before March 28, 19797 7
A To the best of my knowledge, it wasn't.
8 1__
te was not?
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7 A
It was not.
gg 10 You referred to Exhibit 37 as "cy memo-
,i Q
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Did you write it?
Ul A
Yes, I did.
13 0
And it went out over Mr. Ha11 man's signature?
14 A
Yes.
13 Q
Aftes that memorandum went out, did you 16 talk to anybody again between August 3, 1978 and 17 March 28, 1979 about the subject that you had been the Dunn addressing through the Kelly memorandum, 19 memoranda and the August 3rd n'emoranda?
adter Yhe only person I remember talking to 20 A
from this was asking Hallman had he gotten a reply ai 21
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A gotten a written reply from him.
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