ML20010J397
| ML20010J397 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 09/24/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19251A677 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 SECY-80-457B, SECY-81-464A, NUDOCS 8110010439 | |
| Download: ML20010J397 (63) | |
Text
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NUNM REGUI.ATORY COME.ISSICN
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' d COMMISSION MEETING C'
In de Matter ef:
AFFIRMATION SESSION 81-35 1
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DATI:
September 24, 1981 PAGzg:
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Washington, D. C.
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ALDERSOX'- t 400 Virpria Ave., S.W. Wasnin g:n, C.
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20024
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1 UNITED STATES OF A.5 ERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
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4 5
AFFIRMATION SESSION 81-35 6
7 8
9 Room 1130 10 1717 H Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C.
11 Thursdny. September 24, 1981 12 The Commission 3e t a t 2:35 p.m.,
pursuant to 13 ne tice,
14 EEFCRE:
15 NUNZIO P ALLADINO, Chairman 16 PETER BR ADFORD, Commissioner 17 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 18 JOHN AHEARNE, Commissioner 19 ALSO PRESENT:
20 L. BICKWIT, General Counsel 21 S.
CHILK, Secretary i
22 F. REMICK 23 l
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2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
The meeting will please come r-3 to order.
4 This meeting is an affirmation and discussion
.5 sessicn en a number of items listed en the coenda, and I am 6 going to ask the Secretary to walk us through the items and 7 give us the status.
8 MR. CHILK:
The first paper is 61-464A, Protection 9 of Unclassified Saf eguards Inf orma tion, in which the 10 Commission is being asked to approve publication of a final 11 rule and conforming amendments.
12 The Commission has unanimously approved that.
13 Both Commissioner Gilinsk y and Commissioner Bradford would 14 have preferred that the ss.f*7uard in' mation and Category 15 II informa tion he i been protected under Section 137, and 16 would not have made the rule immediately effective.
17 Would you please affirm your votes.
18 CHAIEMAN PALLADINO:
Aye.
19 COMMISSIONER BRADFCED:
Aye.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Aye.
21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Aye.
22 MR. CHILK:
The second item on the affirmatien 23 schedule deals with 80-457, 457A and 4573, EDO Delega tion of 24 Authority.
25 CCMMISSIONER BRACFCED:
Sam, explain something to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINI A AV2., S.W WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (2021 554 2345
3 I'me about the previous one procedurally.
Doesn't one of us 2 have to ab.=' sin without Tom here or without -- don't you 3 have a problem making the rule immediately effective?
4 BR. CHILK:
With two of you voting for the rule, 5 immediately effective, yes
-- I apologize -- one of you 6 would have to abstain on the immediately ef fective part.
I COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I will abstain on whatever 8 I have to abstain on.
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY :
I agree with Peter's 10 comments, it 's really on the one --
11 MR. CHILK:
On the one part?
12 COMMISSIONER GIL7.NS.NY:
Cn the Fection 147.
13 MR. CHILK:
So otherwise, then, we then have a
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14 majority on that.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
We have got to have a
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16 majority on the rule.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
You do have a majority en the 18 rule.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Majority voting.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Pine.
Peter abstains.
21 The rule is approved.
22 (Lauchter.)
23 -
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
What are you votina for, 24 Victor?
Are you voting for the whole rule as --
25 CCMMISSIGNER GILINSKY:
I just made an additional
- DERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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1 comment.
2 MR. CHILK:
All of you have voted for the whole 3 rule.
The only question was on the immedia te ef fectiveness 4 --
5 COMMISSIONER GILINKSY:
And 147.
6 MR. CHILKs
-- and 147, and Peter will abstain.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
And how do you vote on 8 immediate ef f ectiveness on 1477 9
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I will abstain on 10 e ve ry thing, and Sam knows how to write my comments, in any 11 case.
There is some mystical notation he goes thrcugh in 12 these situa t ions.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
As I understood your vote, 14 you said you would have preferred, but I gather you accepted.
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, that's right.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
All right, so'we are all 17 together on tha t.
18 MR. CHILK:
80-457, rJ57A and 457B on Delegation of 19 Aut hority.
All the Commissioners --
?.t.
Roburts has 20 approved the paper.
The Chairman, Chairm*.n Palladino has 21 a pproved it with some modification.
Commissioner Ahearne 22 h as approved it with modifications.
We do not have a formal
- 23. vote f rom either Commissioner Gilinsky or Commissicner 24 Bradford.
I understand they are prepared to discuss the 25 matter here and now.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 vlRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
5 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO I think we ought to discuss 2 it because we have various comments, and I am not sure we 3 agree on the totality of the document.
4 I will begin with my own items, and that was to 5 modify 026 to read in pertinent part, " appointing and 6 removing after consultation with the chairman."
I want to
- 7 insert those verds and I gather there is no problem on that.
I believe he 8
Then Commissioner Ahearne had 9 lists them as three items here, but I think number one is 10 divisible into more than one part.
So why don't you go 11 through and highlight those points, John.
12 COMMISSIONER AHEA.UE:
Okay.
The first has to do 13 with the rule changes, the rulemaking, and I imagine it is
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14 goinw to be -- I think it's the same point Peter wants to 15 address.
16 CHAIEMAN PALLADINC:
Yes, he has a slightly 17 dif ferent viewpoin+ on tha t.
18 COMMISSIGNER AHEARNE:
This had come up prc tously 19 with respect to delegation of authority.
At that time it 20 was delegation of authority to the then Office of Standards 21 to issue a rule, and I don't see any reason to au tomatically 22 retain to the Commission -- which, in other words, means for 23 the Commission office to develop as opposed to the EDC 24 office to develop -- I see no reason to automatically r e ta in 25 any area for the Commission.
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. ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, d)0 VIRG NIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
6 1
I think the restriction that was already embedded 2 in 0211, the subject of general policy guidance from the 3 Commission, is adequate, and I theref ore was striking the 4 limit 1tions in 038.
So one of my changes was just to strike 3 038, whi ch was a restriction, and then strike in 0211 the 6 particular ref erence to 038.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
But you would keep in not 8 only proposed but final rule?
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes, right.
l'e part I was 10 trying to strike was the 038, which reserves to the 11 Commission some subset of rules automatically.
12 COMMISSIGNER GILINSKY:
I agree with ou.
I think 13 rulemaking is something the Commission should not relinquish
't 14 except in areas that it specifically has decided that the 15 staff ought to promulgate rules.
In fact, I think it is 16 almost unseemly for us in this very important area to 17 delegate everything to the sta ff except for areas we
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18 specifically hold unto ourselves.
19 COMMISSICNER AHEABNE:
As far as that goes, Vic, !
20 think it is probably an argument about what is minor'.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would say promulgate
,22 minor motions and otherwise --
23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNd:
I have no problem with it, 24 if it is a minor rule, for the EDG to go ahead and propose 25 it and go final on it.
My concern is tha t I believe major ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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1 rules we ought to consider, minor rules he ought to do.
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2 then the argument will end up being what is minor and what 3 is major.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
There are certain areas we 5 ought to specifically indicate that the staff can promulgate 6 and basically maintain rules.
A lot of it.eally has to do 7 with maintaining and updat.5.ng rules, making various minor 8 changes, codes 2nd that sort of thing, and I think that is 9 entirely right.
But I think we ought to be specifically 10 indicating which those are.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would have thought that 12 part of what was incorporated into the phrase " subject to 13 the general policy guidance from the Commission," and tha t
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14 modifies the promulgation of final rules.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
First of all, there is no 16 major or minor in that.
4 17 COMhISSIONEh AHEARNE:
That's right.
That 18 modifies the phrase " promulgating proposed and final rules."
19 COMMISSIONEy GILINSKY:
I would say I would be 20 much more -- I would say something like specific.
- Well, 21 f rankly, I would strike all that.
I would say premulgating 22 minor rule changes, period.
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
What about proposed rule 24 changes?
Is he authorized to propose major policy changes?
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
He can propose any policy ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPAhY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTCN 0.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
8 i
1 change.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is that righ t?
I was told 3 earlier that he wasn't authorized to.
4
-COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
He can pro pose to.2s 5 anything.
What he can't do is put it out for public comment.
6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Now, we could -- I ' m not 7 opposed to the idea.
In fact, in the past, I supported it, 8 but I would -- I guess I would want to spend more time.
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
One possible way is to take to out 211 for now and take out 038 since that applies to it 11 and make that the item of a separate discusrion.
12
. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Th at 's fine.
13 CE..IRMAN PALLADINO:
Is that all right?
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14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think it's a big area 16 itself.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
And really that was the 18 subject cf 80-161 and 80-314, which is now back to the EDC 19 f or f urth sr work.
So that's appropriate.
20 THAIRMAN PALLADINO:
So we will take 211 out and 21 0 38 ou t from this document, and you said we do ha ve a SECY 22 paper on that, and we vill take it up as a separate item, 23 o ka y ?
24 You want to go on to the next one?
25 COMMISSIGNER AHEARNE:
The next change I was ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
l 9
1 proposing to make is on page 3, and tha t's with the question 2 as it was worded, "All significant questions of policy shall 3 be presented to the Commission for resolution.
With respect 4 to such questions, - the views of the relevant offices which 5 in -the view of the EDO are pertinent shall be presented to 6 the Commission."
7 I propose to change that to "With respect to such 8 questions, all major views of the affected offices shall be 9 presented to the Commission."
If it is a significant policy 10 que stion, I didn ' t think it wa r, appropriate for the EDO to 11 be put in the role of screening out the views to be 12 presented.
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I agree with the sense of
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14 your change.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I picked up the words of 16 the previous version.
That's what it used to be.
17 COMMISSION ER GILIN SKY :
The words here are the 18 views of the relevant of fices shall be -- if we drop that 19 qualifier -- shall be presented to the Commission.
20 CHAIRMA'3 PALLADINO:
Is this consistent with the 21 Reorganization Act?
Maybe I should ask General Ccunsel.
22 MR. BICKWI":
That's an interesting question.
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I think as it is indicated 1
24 now, the Chairman and through him the EDO a re *o set forth 25 what the Commission is supposed to look at, and I thought l
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., W ASHINGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
10 1 this was consistent with the Reorganization Plan.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
There are three qualifiers 3 as it stands.
4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
This is a significant 5 question of. policy, which is one of the few areas which is 6 reserved to the Commission itself.
7 CHAI2 MAN PALLADINO:
I think the Reorganizaticn 8 Act or direction specifically speaks to this point, and I 9 did n 't have a rnance to look it up.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
It seems to me that if we 11 all collectively want thin g s to be done in a certain way, it 12 is certainly not inconsistent with the law to do it that way.
13 CHAIRHAN PALLADINC:
Well, it is if the law says 5
14 you do it the other way.
That's what I really was asking 15 the General Counsel.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
If you put it that va ),
17 res.
18 (Laughter.)
19 Vell, let's ask the General Councel.
20 CHAIF?.AN PALLADING:
Fine.
Maybe he wants a few 21 min utes to try to look it up.
22 MR, BICKWIT:
I would, and I am probably going to 23 v an t more than a few minutes.
I am probably going to want a 24 day or so to look at that question.
25 CHAIRMA' PALLADINO:
Okay.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
11 i
1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
My impression is normally 2 things would work the way we say unless we collectively 3 decide --
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
The other thing, I know we 5 may want the views of all the affiliated offices, but I 6 don 't think we want to be making end-runs around the EDO.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I don't think this is an 8 end-run around the EDO.
He is packaging them and presenting 9 them.
There are really two qualifiers:
10 First of all, there is the word "significant,"
11 which presumchly he would 'nterpret in any particular 12 instance.
He would decide, unless instructed by the 13 Commission, that something was or wasn't significant.
If te i
14 didn 't feel it was a significan t item, he wouldn't be using 15 this approach.
He would presumably be making a decision on 16 tha t, arid the question is really whether you put in a third 17 qualifier and say, well, the views are pertinent.
18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Joe, let me turn it arcund 19 the other way.
If it's a significant policy issue chat is 20 going to come to the Commisson for resolution, the 21 Commission is going to ask what are the views of the major 22 af f ected of fices, and I think consistent with any readino of 23 the Eeorganiza tion Act, the Commission has a righ t to hear 24 what the views are of the major offices, and it is just a 25 much better situation if those come up rather than having to ALDERSON REPORT;NG COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (2021 554 2345
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1 be forced out.
2 MR. BICKWIT:
My initial inclination is to thiak 3 that the Commission could do this, but there are two 4 features of the Reorganization Plan that do give me some 5 pause, and I would therefore like to ask for about a day to 6 look at it.
One is that the statute had said that various 7 directors would report directly to the Commission, and the 8 Reorganization Plan transf erred that authority so that there 9 is a reporting -through the EDO.
10 And secondly, the Chairman is responsible to the 11 Commission f or assuring that the Executive Director of 12 Operations and the staff of the Conmission are responsive tc 13 the requirements of the Commission in performance of its l
14 f unctions, and I would like to look at the report language 15 or that to see whether the role of the Chairman as the e
16 presenter of policy to the Commission is in any way 17 jeopardized by this decision.
18 As I said, my initial inclination is that it isn't.
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY.
I think we would hold up 20 on this if you want to.
21 CHAIRMAN PAlLl9INO:
Yes, we may want to hold up 22 on this.
Let me think about it while he goes on to his L other points.
24 MR. BICKWIT:
If you want my opinion, you have to 25 hold up on it.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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1 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
The final thing was again 2 on page 3.
This has to do with contracts arrangements, et 3 cetera.
There was a phrase put in, "The EDO shall submit to 4 the Chairman f or approval all contracts for $750,000 or 5 more.
Prior to approval the Chairman will consult with the 6 Commissoners."
I had two problems with the last, " prior to 7 approval, the Chairman will consult with the Commissioners."
8 First, it didn't seem to me to be appropriate in a 9 manual chapter on the duties of the EDO to put in a
.10 statement of what the Chairman shall do.
11 And then second, if you then found some o ther 12 place to put it, I didn't think it was appropriate to so 13 bind the Chairman.
k 14 So in other words, I don't think it is right here 15 and I don't think it is right anywhere.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY4 I'm not sure I know which 17 section it is.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Put I could sa y verbally that 19 I would consult.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEAENE:
Certainly you can, but I 21 d on ' t think that is appropriate.
That is in Section 032.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0:
Is this a major problem to 23 delete it?
There would be nothing wrong in my writing a 24 separate memo to the Commissioners saying on contracts 25 greater than $750,000, I would appreciate --
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345 J
14 1
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE.
Any particular chairman can 0
2 certainly establish that mode.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Would that be all right?
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
My memory fades en this.
5 I assume we already lost on the proposition that the 6 Commission itself should review contracts above 5750,000, 7 and it sounds to me as though that is a perfectly acceptable 8 way to state what the majority of the Commission prefers.
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
You go along with deleting 10 t h a t ?
All righ t.
11 Are you through, John?
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Yes.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Vic, you have some changes?
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I really brought up 15 the one 16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is this the one where we are i
17 going to eliminate 038 in 211 and take it up separately 7 18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
I think that takes 19 care of that.
John's change took care of the second one.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
What is that, the 031?
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You had one on 212.
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I guess I would have I guess I would recommend different 24 preferred to have it 25 language to you, but if you don't like it, I will go with ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
7 15
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1-the language that is there.
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would stick with the 3 language that is there for my vote.
4 CHAIRMAh PALLADINO:
Peter?
5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I prefer Victor's change, 6 although --
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
On 212 ?
8 COMMISSIONER BR ADFORD:
Yes.
I suppose I can 't 9 cling to it a lot harder than --
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I'm not sure I know what 11 change you are ref erring to.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would have said any 13 matter or f unction not explicitly assigned to the EDO is
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14 reserved to the Chairman and the Commission pursuant to the 15 Reorganization Plan of 1981, which means whatever is given 16 to the Chairman stays with the Chairman, whatever is given 17 to the Commission stays with the Commission.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Except this is clear as 19 w ritten.
It is just nice and clear.
If you can buy that, I 20 a m willing to make a propesal on 031 that unless the -- I 21 would go along with the proposed change on 031 unless the 22 0GC says that the Reorganization Plan precludes it.
23.
Is that reasonable?
24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Eecause I would like to pass i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
16 1 this if we possibly can.
2-COMMISSIONER GILINSais That would be fine.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINC:
Okay.
With these 4 modifica tions, which I hope the Secretary has --
5 MR. CHILK:
Yes, I have.
6 Commissioner Bradford, did you have your point 7 taken care of on rulemaking?
8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
+
9 MR. CHILK:
All right.
I do have it.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa We 're just going to put it,,
11 off ?
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Right.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Okay.
So with these 14 modifications, I gather we have four votes in f avor.
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Aye.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Aye.
17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Aye.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Aye.
19 MR. CHILK Fine.
That completes the 20 a f f irma tion.
All the others have been deferred for one 21 reason or other.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Okay.
There is nothing more 24 to come at this session.
24 Now, we will be reconvening at 3 o' clock for a 25 meeting with the American Nuclea r Society.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
17 1-Okay, thank you.
t
~2 (Whereupon, at 2:55 p.m.
the. meeting was i'
3 adjourned. )
4 5
6 7
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10 11 12 13 -
1 14 15 f
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19 20 21 22 2
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24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the COMMISSION MEETING in the matter oft Affirmation Session 81-35 Date of Proceeding:
September-24, 1981 Docket llumber:
Place of Proceeding:
wanhiraron. n_ c.
wore held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the Commission.,
nn, ni,ny Official R'eporter (Typed) 3 a
-$11,)
Official Reporter (Signature) 9 9
3