ML20005B766
| ML20005B766 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Diablo Canyon  |
| Issue date: | 08/27/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8109020114 | |
| Download: ML20005B766 (41) | |
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COMMISSION MEETING b
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PUBLIC MEETING DISCUSSION OF DIABLO CANYON LOW-POWER OPERATING LICENSE
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DA"'I:
August 27, 1981 PAggs:
1 - 41 AT:
Washington, D.
C.
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_HDERSON REPORTLTG
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20024 Telachc=a: (202) 554-2245 8109020114 810827 PDR 10CFR PT9.7 PDR I
1 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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8 4
PUBLIC HEETING S
DISCUSSION OF DIABLO CANYON LOW-POWER OPERATING LICENSE 6
7 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Eoom 1130 8
1717 H Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C.
9 Thursday, August 27, 1981 10 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 2:10 p.m.
11 BEFORE:
12 NUNZIO PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission 13
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VICTOR CILINSKY, Commissioner 14 PETER A. BRADFORD, Commissioner I
15 JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner 16 THOMAS ROBERTS, Commissioner 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, I
2
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1 ALSO PRESENTa 2
SAMUEL CHILK
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LEONAP.D BICKWIT 4
MARTIN EALSCH S
FORREST REMICK 6
STEVE HANAUER 8
TOLBERT YOUNG 9
BOB BUCKLEY 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 l
17 13 19 20 i
21 22 23 1
24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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CHAIEMAN PALLADINO:
The meeting will please come 3 to order.
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4 The discussion this afternoon is a continuation of 5 our consideration of the f actors entering into Diablo Canyon S low-power license.
There are two sets of issues that we 7 want to discuss this af ternoon.
The first relates to the 8 adequacy of reactor operating staff for low-power operation l
9 and that would be an open meeting.
It is an uncontested 1
10 item.
But we have several contested items that we want to 11 then discuss, assuming we have time, and that would be in 12 the closed portion of the meeting.
13 We will proceed first with the adequacy of l
14 operating staff and then we will recess for a few minutes if 15 we are coing to continue with the closed session.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY4 Is this truly an 17 uncontested issue, Len?
18 MR. BICKWITs Orr view is that it should be 1
19 treated that way.
This is a subject which was denied by the 20 licensing board a t the licensing board level.
You have a 211etter f rom Governor Brown's counsel to the e?fect that it 22 therefore should be treated as a contested natter and 23 therefore not the subject of a briefing from one of the 24 parties in the case.
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINtA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
4 1
As was discussed prior to the last open meeting on 2 this subject, our view is to the contrary, that once a 3 matter which was cohtested is denied as a subject or 4 contention, then it is appropriate for staff to come in and 5brief you on that subject matter.
6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY It is one thing to have 7 the staff come in and for us to have a meeting of which a 8 transcript is kept so if there is any problem conceptually 91t could be corrected.
Should the issue be allowed in at 10 some later point, others would have an opportunity to deal 11 with what has been said here.
12 It is quite another thing if you ata saying that 13 Commissioners can meet with individual parties and discuss t
14 these subjects without keeping transcripts.
l 15 MR. BICKWITs I am saying that the Commissioners 16 could meet with the staff without keeping transcript not 17 with other parties.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Why can we meet with the 19 staff ?
20 MR. BICKWIT:
Because the Commission has a
'21 f un ction to perform here and th e staff has a function to 22 perform here with regard to its immediate effectivenss 23 review.
This is a function which is apart from its 24 adjudicatory f unction.
25 Ihe only reasonable lay to construe what the ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
5 1 Commission does under its immediate effectiveness review is 2 to look at it in two parts.
One is to look at what the 3 Board has done and review that and decide whether on the
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4 basis of the matters in dispute before the Board the 5 Commission can authorize the license to issue.
In effect 6 the Commission in that sense is serving as a superboard.
7 The other thing that the Commission does is in 8 effect it serves as a superstaff.
It has the staff come in 9 and brief the Commission on tha t portion of the proceeding 10 which is not included in the record so that it can make its 11 decision about whether the resolution of those issues as 12 proposed by the staff is appropriate.
13 COMMISSIONEE GILINSKY:
The fact is the staff is
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14 one of the parties.
What this means is that if an issue 15 should subsequently be admitted and if contact has taken 16 place during which Commissioners received advice and no 17 record of that is kept, there is no way to correct that 18 def ect.
19 MR. BICKWIT:
That is always the case when you are 2typursuing a nonadjudicatory function.
In many circumstances t
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21 -- and we have confronted these in the past -- you h ave 22 discussions taking place between staff and the Commission 23 which involves matters which are relevant to the 24 adjudication but the purpose of the briefing is not an 25 adj udicatory one.
It is almost as if you were discussing'an i
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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1 enf orcing action.
That is our view of the matter.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY But you do say it does not 3 apply to the parties.
4 HR. BICKWIT:
I do say that.
I say that because 5 the cases which provide for this construction of the 6 ex parte rule as it is postured in the statute make a 7 distinction between staff and the other parties.
And it 8 seems reasonable to carry that distinction down through our 9 rules so that we construe our rule the way the cases are 10 construing the statute.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
But I thought some time 12 ago, a couple of weeks ago in response to Mr. Eradford you 13 had a slightly diff erent position.
t 14 MR. BICKWIT:
That is right.
I am glad you raised 15 tha t.
Ir, response to Commissioner Bradford, I did make a 16 sts tement upon reviewing the transcript which I would like 17 to retract.
It has already been retracted in fact.
l 18 The question was ene which I misunderstood and 19 tha t misunderstanding became apparent immediately after the 20 m ee ting.
All of your officers were notified that the answer 21 which does appear on the transcript that I gave is the wrong i
22 answer, i.e.
that Commissioners could meet in private with 23 other parties to the proceeding on these issues.
24 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
It is only the staff.
25 MR. BICKWIT:
It is only the staff.
I think it is ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
r 7
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1 a perfectly reasonable way to proceed, to do this in public 2 session, to keep a transcript, to provide that transcript to
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3 the other parties and to give them a chance to co.mment on 4 what happens with respect to the discussion in that 5 transcript.
However I am telling you that I do not believe l
61t is required.
7 COMMISSIONEB GILINSKY:
I must say that I find 8 that an odd ruling.
As long as the staff is treated like a 9 regular party in these proceedings, if it were not --
10 ER. BICKWIT The problem is the staff is doing 11 two things in these proceedings.
One, it is performing as a 12 party with respect to matters which really are contested 13 bef ore the Board and where a record is being developed
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14 before the Board.
15 As you know, it is ulso doing something else.
16 Af ter the Board decides that the contested matters have been 17 resolved to its satisfaction, it authorizes the issue of the 1elicense subject to the staff determinations with respect to 19 other issues, issues which have not been taken up before the 20 B oa rd.
21 It is with respect to those issues that we are 22 having this briefing.
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
What would be the 24 dif ficulty with coming out the other way?
That is issues 25 which the party sought to contest and on which the ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
8
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1 Commission had resched no final ruling, that is the appeal 2 had not been decided, providing that they would be handled 3 the way we handle contested issues.
That is we would have i
4 to look elsewhere for technical assessment, treating issues 5 on which contentions have been filed.
6 MR. BICXWIT:
Do you mean as contested issues?
7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes, as contested issues.
8 I take it we would then end up relying on OPE basics in the 9 vay we do --
10 MR. BICKWIT:
But you would have no record to 11 review.
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
That is a position that is 13 awkward because if the hearing board does not treet the 14 issue, we have no record there.
15 COMMIESIONER BRADFORD4 But there is no record 16 here either.
17 MR. BICKWITs That is rig h t.
That is why we are 18 having this meeting.
i 19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Otherwise if we are denied 20 access to the staff on that point, we would be denied access 21 t o --
22 MR. BICKWIT:
There would be no way you could make 23 a determination that it was in the public interest to 24 operate this plant or not to operate it.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think we ought to have ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
9 I
1 access to the staff.
I also think we ought to have access 2 to others.
But whatever is said I think should be recorded l
3 and whoever is a party to this case ought to have access to 4 the material.
5 MR. BICKWITs I agree with that.
I think tha t is 6 good practice.
It is happening.
7
" am simply telling you that as a legal matter I 8 do not think it is required.
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
We are keeping a tranceript 10 and it will be made available.
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSK1.
Have we invited other 12 parties to this meeting ?
13 MR. BICKWIT Yes.
We have not invited them to
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14 speak but we have invited them.
15 CO'dMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Has anyone asked to speak?
16 HR. BICKWITs Nc.
l 17 Now what you did the last time we confronted this l
18 question was to provide a comment period for the other 19 par ties.
I think that is appropriate.
I think it ought to 20 be a very short comment period.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do you mean as part of this l
22 mee ting ?
l l
i 23 MR. BICKWITs No, not as part of the meeting; but 1
24 ve made a transcript of a similar meeting available to the 25 other parties and we asked for their comments.
Most of the l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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1 comments criticized the Genere.1 Counsel's rulings on these 2 matters.
3 (Laughter.)
4 MP. BICKWIT:
Nonetheless I would advise doing it 5 again.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN04 Is there any problem in 7 proceeding that way, making a transcript available and 8 seeking comments?
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
What did you give last tim e?
10 MR. BICKWIT:
Last time we gave r week.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That seems reasonable.
We 1270t enough comments.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is there any problem with a 14 week ?
15 (No response.)
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Why don't we proceed that way.
17 MR. DENION:
Ihank you, Mr. Chairman.
18 I have with me Tolbert Young, the resident l
19 inspecto r.
Tolbert, maybe you have a new assignment now.
20 MR. YOCNG4 I am section chief now back in 21 Region V.
22 MR. DENTON4 Also with me are Bob Buckley, the l
23 pro ject manager, snd Steve Hanauer, the director of the I
24 Division of Human Factor of Saf ety.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s Is there a new resident there?
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
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1 HR. YOUNG.
Yes, sir, two.
2 HR. DENTON:
The last time we met with you we 3 talked about some difficulties we foresaw with rtaffing.
4 Since that time we have continued to explore that area.
'J e 5 have cnneluded that there is adequate staffing for fuel 61oading.
And depending on the times that elapse between 7 f uel loading and any other possible operation, there are a 8 number of candidates who would be available for test.
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa Are you distinguishing 10 between fuel loading and criticality?
11 HR. DEHTON:
Yes.
Steve will go into this in more 12 detail.
I just wanted to give a brief introduction.
Steve 13 has a f ew slides that will show where we were when we met
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t 14 with you last, the way we see 't now and will discuss some 1511 cense conditions which we are scoposing be added to the 1611 cense to cover the difficu2'ies we had foreseen last time.
17 Steve?
18 MR. HANAUER:
Mr. Chairman, I have eight 19 viewgraphs and in your handouts the back two pages are two 1
20 typewritten statements which are unsuitable for viewgraphs 219 hich I will come to.
They are draft license conditions 22 based on our review of this case and discussions we have had 23 with the Applicant and others.
24 The required staffing on shift is dependent on 25 wha t they are doing.
The number of people availatle to l
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ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
12 1 staff these shifts depends on the time of the year, since 2
- hey have an active training program and we have an active 3 examination program.
7 4
The first slide and the first sheet in your 5 handout is a slightly updated version of a table I showed at 6 the last mee ting.
The left-hand two columns show what is 7 required for the differLat modes of operation, which I will 8 explain to you in a moment.
The right-hand three columns 9 show at three different times how many people are available.
10 The top three numbers on the right-hand side are 11 slightly different from the ones I showed you a few weeks 12 ago.
There are two reasons for this.
The first is that we 13 discussed at considerable depth with the Applicant the job l
14 titles, the job descriptions and the duties of these 15 people.
These are the senior reactor operators who serve as 16 s upervisor and as senior control room operator, and 17 these a re the people who are in this plant and short supply l
18 and therefore it is the top line that we will concentrate 19 on.
They have an ample supply of reactor operators and 20 shif t technical advisers fully qualified and ready for 21 action.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I did act follow that 23 statemen t.
I see.
I have to look over here.
Thank you.
24 MR. HANAUER:
The senior operators, they need 25 eight or four to run four shifts.
That is te say they need l
i l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, I
400 yRGINIA AVE, S.W, WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2M l
13 1 one or two per shif t depending on what they are doing.
2 let's look at the second viewgraph please and we will come 3 back to tne first one.
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4 The second viewgraph explsins the mode.
I took j
5 this right out of the technical specifications.
Modes 1, 2, 63, u, crudely speaking, are operating.
Mode 5 is cold 7 shutdown where nothing is going on, and Mode 6 is 8 ref ueling.
For cold shutdown, only a rkeleton crew is 9 required because the plant is shut down, the temercature is 10 1ow and the reactivity is low and the power 1.'
zero in 11 essence.
12 For refueling one senior operator is required out 131a the control room, and during the actual movement of fuel k-14 enother senior operator is required out at the fuel.
It is 15 a little bit complicated.
16 For Modes 1,
2, 3, 4 ve count these to be 17 operation although they are operation under somewhat 18 dif ferent conoitions.
They are hot; they a re pressurized.
19 As you see, the reactivity, the power and the temperature 20 have some variations.
It is conveninent to define these 21 dif feren tly for other reasona.
We have lumped them, the 1,
22 2, 3 and 4 into what I would call the operating modes.
23 If you go now back to the first viewgraph, you 24 will see tha t I have assumed four shif ts which is what 2: Diablo troposes.
For the opera ting modes, two seniors and l
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, l
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
14 I two operators and one shift technical adviser are required 2 on each shif t.
That means for four shirts they need in 3 particular eight seniors, and tha t is where the trouble
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4 Comes.
5 Today there are 13 licensed seniors in the plant.
6 But not all of them are fully available for shift 7 operation.
I showed you 1.s some detail about these people 8 last time.
If you will turn to Vievgraph 6 you will see a 9 revised layout of who these people are.
It is the one 10 headed SRO Experience.
There are five management people, 11 reactor superintendent, plant engineer and so on who are not 12 shown on this viewgraph because they are not at issue +
13 The eight people potentially available for shift i
14 duty are shown here.
Having reviewed much more carefully 15 the jobs involved, we now conclude that seven of them are 16 acceptable to us to stand shif t duty and one, although f ully 17 qualified, is not acceptable to us to stand routine shif t 18 duty because he has other important things to do.
He is the 19 operations supervisor and we want him to supervise operation 20 and not to be consumed by routine shift duties.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do the other seven have no 22 other duties?
23 MR. HANAUER:
They have no other essential daties 24 that cannot be postponed.
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Is that postponed or given ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
15 Ito someone else?
2 HR. HANAUER:
Postponed or given to someone elses 3 there is indeed a difference but in either case this is 4 satisfactory to us.
Let me try to explain as was explained 5 to us by the Applicant and as we have accepted the 6 dif ferences between this and the list I showed you last time.
7 What I showed you last time was four shift seniors 6 and four which I characterized as management and plant 9 staff.
One of the ones I characterized as plant staff has 10 actually been moved from the training staff to the shif t 11 staf f.
We are satisfied there are enough training people 12 still on the training staff and we have accepted that 13 ch ange.
So you now see five shift seniors on the list where I
14 before there were four.
15 The other two changas are the two bottom people on 18 the top list, the senior operations engineer and the 17 operations engineer.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s Which slide are you looking 19at?
20 MR. HANAUER:
I am still looking at Slide 6, the 21 one headed SB0 Experience.
22 The sixth and seventh people on this chart, as has 23 now been explained to us in the most gruesome detail, are on 24 the staff of the operations supervisor.
1t one of their 25 duties is to fill in in shift work as appropriate and their ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
.._ _. _ _ _ 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON 0;C. 20024 (202g54 2345
16 1 other duties can indeed be devolved on someone else or
.2 postponed in order that this happen.
They were hired for f -
3 this purpose.
They have as you see operating experience and 4 also bachelor's degrees in engineering.
They have convinced 5us that this is satisfactory.
6 So that where as I said there were four available 7 for shif t SRO last time, we now believe that seven are 8 available.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
In your last time's list it 10 13 only the quality control engineer that is not on this 11 11s t.
12 MR. HANAUER:
He has disapgeared from this list.
13 I do not know whether his job has been redefined or whether
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14 we had him in the wrong place.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSK14 Moving the operations 16 engineers over does not conflict with any other requirements 17 on the licensee, does it?
18 HR. HANAUER:
So we have been informed, and we l
19 have explored this in sole detail.
They are not memebers of 20 the independent safety engineering group.
They are not 21 members of the plant engineering staff, and they have 22 convinced us that that is true.
23 HR. DENTON:
They meet all the requirements f or 24 management and technical oversight with these individuals 25 assigned as chif t workers as opposed to engineering duties.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, m
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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17 1 Originally we thought that all of these people had essential 2 management dutues.
Since we have met with you we have gone Sinto, as Steve said, the actual job requirements person by 4 person.
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Steve, we are not supposed to 6 get all of this from looking at this chart?
7 MR. HANAUER:
Tha t is correct.
We put what we 8 thought was the right amount on the chart and will embellish 91t in the discussion.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I do not see what you are 11 telling me on this chart.
12 MR. DENTON:
There used to be four on this chart 13 and we have added three.
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14 MR. HANAUER:
What we are telling you on this 15 chart is there are now seven people fully available for 16 shift senior duty.
17 ER. DENTON:
That is based on previous l
18 examinations and we have also listed on this chart their 19 previous experience and previous licenses just f. o r 1
20 background information en their qualifications.
21 COEMISSIONER GILINSKYs Let me ask you, Steve.
22 You have a requirement for eight SRos for Modes 1,
2, 3, 4.
23 Is that a requirement for routine operation of the plant?
24 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Would it apply the first 25 1
l ALOERSON REPOF1 TING COMPANY,INC, L
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) $54 2345
18 Itime you are turning the plant on?
2 MR. HANAUERs As a requirement, yes, it does 3 apply.
They have also a startup crew of engineers, both f
4 their own and contractors.
But there are the licensed 5 people who are fully qualified in all aspects of the 6 operations:
the board, the supervision of the board, the 7 monitoring of what is going on for plant safety.
8 COMhISSIONER GILINSKYs Not one of them has 9 previous operating experience as commercial PWR.
10 MR. HANAUER:
That is correct.
11 One of the license conditions which we discussed 12 with you last time and which is at the end of this deck is 13 the proposed license condition requiring the use of
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14 experienced people which they have contracted for who'are 15 experienced in operation of large pressurized water reactors.-
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE4 I gather that is what you 17 call sta rtu p crew.
l 18 MR. HANAUER They are part of the startup crew.
19 There is a much larger startup crew to do the engineering 20and data analysis required during the sta rtup tests.
They 21 are called startup engineers.
l 22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE.
There is an additional 23 com pleme nt that is hired by the company or provided by the 24 *endor, whatever it is, during this startup.
l 25 MR. HANAUER:
Yes.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 460 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
19 1
CHAIRMAN PALLADINO Is that to do the reactor 2 operation?
3 MR. HANAUER:
They do not put their hands on the 4 board.
They are not licensed, but they are to be fully 5 available on shif t to the opernting crew to provide the 6 experience with this kind of large reactor that the present 7 operating crew does not have.
We have had this problem in a 8 substantial number of plants where the crews are fully 9 qualified in every way that we test but lack what we 10 consider to be an essential experience component.
We have 11 required the provision of such people on all shif ts in 12 several other plants.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE4 How long do they stay?
14 MR. HANAUER:
It varies.
We now require them to 15 go to 100 percent power.
I have a chronology here that 16 shows you when tha t happens.
17 MR. DENTON:
It is the same sort of approach we 18 used on Sequoyah.
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY4 I know you did.
I asked 20 the Sequoyah people how that worked out and it was not clear 21that it had worked out tha t well.
They subsequently got 22 some help from[NPO that they were very happy with.
23 MR. CENTON:
I thought this was an interesting 24 chart to see the amount of experience they did have in 25 pre-ops and hot f unctional testing.
That is net the same as I
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1 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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20 1 running a plant at power but it does give them the 2 f amiliarity with the systems.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I would like to make sure I 7
4 understand one point.
We had four before that were 5 available and we had four from the management people that we 6 said WEre available.
Did we get from four to seven by just 7 taking some of the management people and moving them over 8and saying you are now an SRO and you are not a management 9 person?
10 MR. HANAUER:
It could be described that way.
11 There is a way we hope is a better way to describe it.
They 12 all have SRos.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO I understand tha t.
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14 MR. HANAUER:
What we did was they have now 15 convinced us that for three of those people we were wrong in 16 cha racte rizing them as management people.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
It was not that they are nov 181eaving some management function that is either unattended
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19 or is attended by someone who might be less well qualified.
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20 MR. HANAUER:
No, sir.
We explored tha t at some 1
21 considerable depth and they satisfied us.
22 MR. DENTON:
That was exsetly our concern.
Anyone 23 who had a job title other than SRO we thought should not ha 24 assigned on shif t.
Then when we actually looked we found 25 tha t they title people engineer, not necessarily because l
ALDERSON REFoRTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
21 1they have a management job per se but just to differentiate 2 between job functions in the plant.
3 These three people that we have allowcd to be t
4 counted as normal will not impair their ability to do their 5 normal management technical oversight of operations.
That 6 still leaves us a number of management people holding SR0s 7 who do not play any role in this chart.
8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Where did they get the eigh th 9 one?
10 MB. HANAUERs They have a problem getting the 11 eighth one.
The short story is they have proposed to use 12 the operations supervisor for the eighth one.
We are 13 unwilling to allow this except for short times in some kind
(
14 of an emergency, and they will have to get the eighth one 15 f rom the additional candidates.
Therefore they will not be 16 able to go into these operating modes until they get more 17 peo ple.
That is as we have proposed.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s Do they have people in 19 training now?
20 MR. DENTON:
Go back one slide from this one to 21 Slide 5 perhaps.
22 MR. HANAUER Either way; if you will go back to 23 Slide 1 please you will see that the rumber of people l
24 available increases with time because there are a l
i 25 substantial number of people in the pipeline.
The first l
l l
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22 c
1 number, the number we allowed today is seven.
However there 21s an exam going on next week, originally scheduled for this 3 week, and another exam later on.
If you will look at Slide 4 No. 5 you will see more details on this pipeline.
5 Next week we will examine six SRO candidetes and 6eight RO candidates.
What I have assumed in order to be 7 conservative is that half of these people pass.
They did 8 somewhat better than this last time and they have shined up 9 their training program.
So with good f urtune we will do 10 better than this.
11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
That is the question I would 1211ke to explore a little f urther.
I understand that at the 13 last exam -- and I do not know when it was given -- there
(
14 were 13 shif t people that took the exam, and out of that 15 only four passed.
16 MR. HANAUER:
That is correct.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Now you are expecting 18 50 percent to pass.
That is less than 50 percent.
19 MR. !! AN AUER:
Yes, sir, it is.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
The way the record looked 21 better was because the management people did so much better, 22 so-called.
They had nine out of ten pass.
23 MR. HANAUER:
Tha t is righ t.
Of the ten who 24 f ailed, they are putting up six to retake all or part, as 25 required, of the exam this time.
The other four they feel ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
23 1need further work and they are not putting them up for l
l 2 senior exams.
3 You are quite right.
They did very poorly on the 4 previous exam.
If they do poorly again they have a problem 5but we have to examine them properly and if they do not pass 1
6 they have a problem.
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Have they made any l
81ndication to try to go out and hire additional people?
l 9
MR. HANAUER:
Yes, they have a hiring program.
l 10 But they cannot help themselves in the short term by hiring 11 people.
It takes a substantial number of months at the very 121ea st f or a new hire to learn the plant well enough to pass 13 our examination, even if they are very well up on the more 14 generic parts or our requirements.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
So that all of the people i
16 o n th e test that is coming next week are people who failed 17 last time.
l 18 MR,. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Have they had additional 20 training?
21 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, they have.
That is one of the 22 rea sons they asked to postpone the exam a week.
They 23 decided to lay on yet another week of thermodynamics heat 24 tra nsf e r a nd fluid flow for the six candidates.
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Maybe this is going too f a r ALDERSoN REPORTING CoMFANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
i 24 1but did they barely fail?
2 MR. HANAUER:
I do not know.
3 MR. DENTON:
There is another group in December as g
4 the slide indicates, another group of 16 that are candidates.
5 MR. HANAUER:
Some are those who failed earlier 6 and most are new.
7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Are these more shift people?
8 MR. HANAUER:
Three of the 16 are staff and 13 are 9 shif t.
1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
What are the restrictions 111n retaking an exam?
12 MR. HANAUER:
They may apply for reexamination 13 af ter two months if they f ail.
If they f ail a second time, 14 they may apply after six months.
That is the last chance we 15 Cive them.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
When will we have the i
17 results of the August-September exami 18 MR. HANAUER:
We have promised them by two weeks 19 af ter the exam.
That is going to be hard to do but we are 20 going to do it.
We want to review them properly as well as 21 grade them.
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
So it will be around 22 23 September 20th?
1 1
MR. HANAUER:
It will be something like that.
24 1
The orals are being given next week also for these 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGIN!A AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
25 1 six candidates and also for the R0s.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do you mean for these six 3 tha t are on the slide?
4 MR. HANAUER:
Yes.
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do you give the orals before 6 the written?
7 MR. HANAUER:
Not usually; if you look at Slide 4 8 you will see exactly what they have to take.
Five of them 9 passed the oral the first time and only one has to retake.
10 Five of them have to take all or in one case part of the 11 written exam over.
So there is only one SRO oral to give 12 next week.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You say one only has to
(
14 take one portion?
15 MR. HANAUER:
If they fail a single category and 16 their overall grade is acceptable, then we give the single 17 category.
If they fail two categories or the overall grade 181s not satisf actory, they have to take the whole thing.
19 MR. DENTON:
The other aspect of timing is shown 20on Slide 8, if we could move to that one called Initial 21 Schedule which is the Applicant's projected schedule of the 22 time frames for the various operations.
You might indicate, 23 Steve, which ones are which modes.
24 MR. HANAUER:
The Applicant proposes to go into 25 Mode 6, fuel load, for two weeks and then to stay in Mode 5 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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26 1as I understand it for the next two months while he 2 assembles th e rest of the reactor internals, puts on the 3 head, hydros the primary system and does other assembly and 4 test tasks.
So he does not propose to go into Mode 4 as I 5 understand it until Day 76.
6 I have a more detailed schedule here.
But in this 7 area it does not say.
I am sorry.
He proposed to start 8 heatup on Day 60 which would go into Mode 4 So on Day 60 9 he would need his full complement.
This is his schedule.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
What kind of heatup?
11 MR. HANAUER It would be heatup with power from 12 the pum >s.
This plant routinely heats up nonnuclearly.
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
And at what point does he k
14 project criticality?
15 MR. HANAUEPs He projects criticality on Day 76.
16 MR. DENTON:
So based on past experience, there 17 are a lot of applicants that have not made these kinds of 18 schedules.
So it indicates to me that there is a 19 considerable likelihood that these tests can be conducted 20 and by the time he needs additional SR3s there will be a 211arge group that have been tasted.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
So are you saying it is on 23 Day 60 he needs eight SR0s?
24 MP. HANAUER:
Yes.
25 CH4IRMAN PALLADINO:
What is SS again?
l I
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
27 a
1 MR. HANAUER:
That is shift supervisor.
2 CHAIRMAN PAlLADINO Then you will probably get it
(
3 because you have roughly ten.
4 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, with any kind of reasonable 5results from the exam he vill make it easily.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNEa On your numbers that you 7 require him to have, is eight the permanent level?
8 MR. HANAUER:
No, sir.
The permanent level is two 9 per shif t.
As soon as they go into their long-term mode, 10 they will go to five or six shif ts to allow for vncations, 11111 ness and retraining.
12 The last two sheets in your handouts are two 13 proposed license conditions.
The first one relates to just
(
14 this point of using management personnel routinely on shift 15 d uring the initial startup period and requires that before 16 the plant has attained 100 percent power level they may not 17 use the operations supervisor or other management or plant 18 staff personnel to satisf y the minimum staffing requirements.
19 I have to say that there is always an escape 20 clause f or a flu epidemic or something, and tha t is provided 21 for in the tech specs.
We vill have to shape up this l
221anguage a little bit to give the same escape so that the 23 plant can be managed and maintained safely in some kind of a 24 special situation.
25 COMMISSIONER CIIINSKYa Why is it okay if there is l
ALDERSON F4EPoRTING COMPANY,!NC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE _ S.W., WASMNGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 553 2345
28 1 a flu epidemic but not okay if there is none?
i 2
MR. JANAUER:
You cannot walk away from the 3 pla n t.
Qualified people have to operate the plant even if 4 there is a flu epidemic.
If the numbers get too small, th e y 5 will have to shut down.
If somebody is out for two or three 6 days, then it is acceptable for one of these management 7 people to move in for that period.
8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You are talking about a 91ater period?
10 MR. HANAUER:
Even during this initial startup if 11 somebody is sick for a small number of days, we allow this 12 kind of emergency substitution on some kind of showint; that 13 they hsve enough people to do the work, including the
(
14 management work.
We allow overtime under exceptional 15 circumstances for the same reason.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Why would you not allow 17 them to start with seven but you will allow them in effect 18 to operate with seven if someone got sick a couple of weeks 191ater?
20 MR. HANAUER:
We would not want to go into 21 especially a new operation shorthanded.
But once having 22 started and acquired some experience and got into a 23 situation where operation was proceeding, we would allow 24 some irregularity in this respect so long as they comply 25 with the tech specs which they always have to doo ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 i
l
29
,e 1
Remember, these other people have licerises really 2 for two reasons.
One is we vant the plant management to 3 know how to run this plant, to understand operation and to
(
4 do some occasional operation.
5 COMMISSIONER GIIINSKY:
Are there not also 6 requirements on the managerial staff which would then not be 7 met?
8 MR. HANAUER:
look at Bart.
I do not think there 9 a re any tech spec requirements although we have reviewed as 10 part of our licensing review their management capability and 11 their staffing.
To lose one or two members of management 12 for a small number of days va think is acce ptr. ole.
13 MR. DENTON.
There are several periods.
We were
(
14 trying to deal here with the period before the operators 15 have acquired a lot of experience.
Once the operators are 16 experienced in operating at full power, I do not find it 17 troublesom e to have a member of management who holds a valid 18SRO to occasionally work a shift.
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY4 I think that Steve is 20 applying that to the earlier period too.
21 MR. DENTON:
We are trying to cover all 22 con tingencie s.
I hope they do not get the flu.
If they do 23 ve vill deal with it when it happens.
I think that is a 24 side issue.
The intent is not to have management work 25 shif ts.
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
i 30 l
1 COMMICSIONER GILINSKY:
I guess the question is --
2 at the time the plant is starting up is a pretty important 3 time in the life of a plant and everyone is learning
(
4 together -- whether one wants to move with a skeleton crew 5 so to speak.
6 MR. HANAUER:
No, sir, one does not ant to move 7 with a skeleton crew.
But if they are in the middle of an 8 evolution it may not be possible to simply shut the thing 9 down without another considerable evolution which might also 10 tax the group.
11 One has to decide on the basis of what is going on 12 tnd who is sick and who is available and make some decision 13 based on the f acts, not all of which come before the scene.
k COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs I realize in an emergency 14 15 someont.- may have to' pitch in.
I gather that is not what we 16 are talking about.
17 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
If you put an ironclad 1811 cense requirement in without an escape clause for 19 emergency, you find yourself nandating something which is in 20 fact passe.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY Wait a minute.
The idea 221s you are supposed to have enough backup and enough of a 23 saf ety f actor, enough f at so you do not get into that 24 situation.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Mr. Gilinsky 's question was l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 ('02) 554-2345 4
.~
31 1 why start with only eight; if you are going to anticipate.
2 some possible emergency conditions why not start wi th 3 perhaps nine.
4 MR. HANAUER:
We are not going to let them start 5
MR. DENTON:
I was concerned that we brought the 6 staff in order to not have to grant exemptions in the dark 7 of night on Sundays as we occasionally do and suggested that 8 ve provide some just on the basis of contingency.
It is a 91ot cle6ner to me not to grant the contingency because we do 10 not anticipate these things happening.
If they do, we vill 11 deal with them.
I do not want to see this issue of illness 12 get 13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I do not think he was
(
14 focusing on the f act that you should not allow for omergency 15 conditions, But he says in order to allow for them, why not 16 start with the bi2Jer crew.
17 MR. HANAUER:
That is what we want the people to 18 d o.
These people are in the situation they are in.
They 19 have 60 days of shutdown work to do and we think they vill 20 have enough people when they need them.
If they do not, l
l 21 they should not start.
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You say "if they," but I 23 think the difference is hos many people there would be.
24 MR. HANAUER:
To load fuel and do their 60 days 25 cold shutdown work four is enough and seven is plenty.
To i
i l
ALCERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345 t
32 1 go then into hot standby and begin the heatup we believe 2 they should have surely eight and they ought to have one or 3 two more.
However these management people who are fully 4 qualified are in f act the fat, the surplus for extraordinary 5 situations.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s I just do not like to hear 7 management called " fat."
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. HANAUERa It was somebody else's term I hope.
10 MR. DENTON:
There is one other consideration in 11 this area.
We have been trying to encourage members of 12 management to halt FRos and to have operator experience so 13 We wrote something that completely barred them from ever 14 e xe rcising their SRO.
They would have no incentive to 15 maintain it and keep it up.
So it is trying to write a spec 16 which is as pure as Ivory soap with a little bit of margin 171n case we need it at some time.
18 There is another important tech spec we wanted to 191mpose and maybe we should cover that.
This would complete 20 our presentation.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
You are putting a clause so 22 that they can make adjustments when people are out sick?
23 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
And you are aiming toward 25 trying to get more than just a minimum and so is the company.
A'.DERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
33 1
NR. H AN AttER That is correct.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
By October you hope to have 3 at least on the order of ten.
4 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
5 MR. DENTON:
We should not say "we are aiming."
6The company is aiming and it is likely that the company will 7 have them.
8 MR. HANAUERs If there were no October class we 9 would feel different3 v.
10 MR. DENTON:
The way to handle the issue is if you 11 really want them to have nine before starting, we should put 12 that in the tech spec.
If you want to guarantee it, we can 13 put a number in that they must have X number before doing 14 beginning f uel loading.
We are proposing that they meet the 15 standard requirements f or f uel loading, but the way to 16 assure margin is to require it.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
I had an original concern 18 that we were using management people to do the job that was 19 bef ore the company.
A t least you are pushing toward a full 20 com pleme nt.
I would not object to having some additional, 21 although I want at least a full complement.
That is what 22 you are writing.
23 ER. DENTON:
Yes, at least a full domplement far l
24 each mode.
They are in a position now for Modes 5 and 6, 25 and I think it is likely they will be in that position for ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., W ASHINGToN, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
34 1 other modes based on the experience of many utilities during 2 startup and the time it takes.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
How did the company get
(
4 itself into this fix?
Did they misjudge the number of 5 operators who would pass the exam?
6 MR. HANAUER:
Two things happened.
One is we 7 increased the number that were required as a result of Three 8 Mile Island.
The other is it took much longer to license 9 this plant and people got discouraged and left the company.
10 MR. YOUNG:
I would like to say and it has not 11 come out here that most of the applicants who are coing to 12 tak e th e te s t n ext week have taken the test formerly and 13 passed the test.
It is the post-TMI test that gave them 14 problems.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I can interpret that two 16 vays.
17 MR. YOUNGS The test is tougher now.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
When you say " post-TMI test" l
19 you mean the test on items related to --
l 20 MR. YOUNG:
The test that NRC is giving now is 21 tougher than ones that were before TMI.
1 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY It is the test that we are 23 giving now.
24 MR. YOUNG.
That is correct.
25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think there is really l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, l
?" !"'^ ^* S"f*S*'" ' "' ~120024y2023 ss4 234s 7
i 35 r
1 only one way of looking at it when you look at it a little 21onger.
3 MR. HANAUER:
The last sheet in your handout is 4the proposed license condition to make sure that the 5 experienced startup engineers are provided and requires that 6 on each shif t an individual experienced in comparable sized 7 pressurized water reactor operation be provided and defines 8 what that is.
That is an individual with at least one year 9 of experience in pressurized water operation or has 10 participated in the startup of at least three pressurized i
11 water reacters.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa He is not licensed or 13 necessarily formerly licensed.
14 MR. HANAUER:
No, sir.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY
.What if he has experience 161n the operation of pressurized water reactors?
i 17 MR. HANAUER:
The company proposes these people.
18 Many of them have been licensed.
Some of them are startup l
19 engineers who do not these days get licensed but have 20 extensive experience in the engineering and operation of 21 reactors during startup.
In turnkey days we used to 22 actually license such people because the vendor had 23 responsibility f or the operation but that is not customary t
24 now.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
So startup is largely by l
i l
ALDERSON RE*ORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINTA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
-.___ ~,_
36 4
4 1 people who are not membars of the regular operatina crew?
2 MR. HANAUEBs No, sir.
The licensed people, which 3 are f our on each shif t and the shift technical adviser, are 4 members of the regular operating crew participating in the 5 startup but of course in this case also getting their 6 experience.
The extra engineering crew tha t comes in on all 7 reactors will not in general stay there.
Although the plant 8 staff which will stay is also working on the startup crew, Gthe plant engineering staff and some of those people vill 10 stay and will provide tha t experience in the engineering 11 part of the plant operation.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
What is the experience 131evel among the Ros?
Have some of them been operators on i
/
14 PWR s?
15 MR. DENTON:
Many of these operators in general t
1 16 were operators on Humbolt Bay which was a small PWR.
17 MR. HANAUER:
I am sorry.
I have their names but 18 not who they are.
19
'COMMISSIGNER GILINSKY:
Is anybody in the entire 20 operating complement within the commercial PWR?
i 21 MR. HANAUER:
I do not think so but I would not l
22 svear to it.
i 23 MR. YOUNG:
There were none licensed on the PWR.
1 f
24 A few have spent time at Ginna and also H.
P. Robinson doing 25 the operations.
All of the startup engineers have gone to l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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37 y
1three or four NTOLs and have watched them perform their 2 sta rtup operations.
3 MR. HANAUER Mr. Murley has just given me a table 4 that shows that two of the R0s at Diablo have observation 5 experience at two PWRs but if I am reading this correctly do 6 not have licensed experience.
7 MR. DENTON:
This concludes our presentation.
8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Are there any questions?
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Mr. Gilinsky mentioned some 10 problems at Sequoyah which I guess had this kind of contract 11 support.
Are you familiar with that?
12 HR. DENTON:
Yes.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNEs Could you expand on that?
I 14 MR. DENTON:
Sequoyah was one of the first plants 15 that we licensed af ter THI and they did not itave anyone at 16 the plant with PWR experience as I recall and we did require 17 th a t they supplement it by hiring temporarily people who had 18 had experience.
The company indicated very early in the 19 startup that they did not think that the people they had 20 hired were that useful and knew as much as the plant people.
21 I think that is a question of making the wrong 22 kind of nrra ngemen ts.
We pushed them into it very fast and 23 apparently it just did not work out.
In theory there is no 24 reason uhy it could not work out if the company gets the 25 cight kind of people.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
38 1
COMMISSIONER AHEARNEa We're those individuals tha t 2 TVA hired specifically as opposed to people that they hired 3 f rom the vendor?
4 COMMISSIONEB GILINSKY.
They contracted with a 5 com pany, I do not know who, and they were provided by that 6 contractor.
7 MR. DENTON:
I knew that the TVA licensee did not 8 think that it provided all that additional benefit to then.
9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKYa That was the impression I 10 got from them.
11 MR, DENTON:
I guess I still think that if done 12 with some judgment and the right people are found to augment 13 the staff that it has potential benefit.
(
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
My understanding is in this 15 case they were getting them from the vendor.
16 MR. BUCKLEY:
As a matter of fact they are getting 17 help f com two dif f eren t con tractors.
I bellest one is 18 Westingh ouse and one is Bechtel.
19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Do you feel with these l
20 requirements that the personnel available to s' art up and 21 do the early testing vill be adequate?
22 MR. HANAUER:
Yes, sir.
23 MR. DENTON:
And the license contains the specific 24 numbers that were shown on_the first chart as requirements.
25 They presently meet the requirements for Modes 5 and 6.
I ALDERSON REPCRTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
39
/
1 think we have tried to projec^; the schedules to show that it 21s likely they will meet the requirements f or higher modes 3 but that is conjecture.
,t 4
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Of course we are some time 5 f rom being at the stage where they might have the 6 opportunity to go to those higher modes.
7 MR. DENTON:
Yes.
s 8
CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s But following shortly on this 9 -- I do not know by how many months or weeks -- is Diablo 10 II.
Is the problem going to be similar or verse or for some 11 reason better?
12 MR. HANAUERs We looked a little bit at Diablo 13 II.
There are new classes of peop1.e coming along intended f
14 for Diablo II who of course ve have not looked at yet.
The 15 operating crew a c the plant ' Jill be by that time experienced 161n the operation of Diablo I and presumably, based on the 17 experience at other plants, some of those people vill move 18 over to Diablo II.
19 The numbers are not possible te predict except the 20 Applicant has stated there are plenty in the pipeline.
21 MR. BUCKLEY:
We do not expect Unit II to be 22 com ple ted un til the second quarter of next year in terms of z3 construction.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Is the utility taking 25 advantage of the time to make sure they have people trained, ALDERSoN PEPoRTING COMPANY. INC, M VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
,6 40 1 ready and qualified?
I think this a common problem.
2 MR. HANAUER:
They have told us they are.
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADIN0s I think this problem of 4 having adequate personnel is a rather large problem 5 throughout the industry.
But yet it has to be solved on a 6 case-by-case basis.
I think one of the reasons that some of 7 the utilities have gotten into trouble is because they did 8 not anticipate the training problem, the magnitude of the 9 training problem and the depth to which the people had to be 10 trained early enough so they had adequate people when they i
~
11 are ready to start.
12 I gather the Diablo Canyon personnel are aware of 13 the problem and are doing something about it.
e 14 MR. DENTON:
I think once we began to discover 15 these type problems, we made a point to raise this issue 16with all the other plants in the pipeline who are further t
17 down in time and have a chance to get started earlier.
So 18 ve may see this kind of problem temporarily here this year 19 but hopefully plants further off in 1982 and 1083 have t
33 recognized it and have hired up for it.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Are there any further 22 questions on this matter?
23 (No response.)
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
We have completed the item we 25 asked you to discuss with us.
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41 1
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Grade them carefully.
2 HR. HANAUER:
I might say one more thing, Mr.
3 Chairman.
We have gone back and looked at the exams we have 4 already given at Diablo.
We had three examiners on the site 5 aind the written examination was f ully proctored.
We have 6 reviewed in an audit way, but rather a substantial audit, 7 the examination papers from the written examination and no 8 evidence whatever of the kind of problem we had on another 9recent case was evident in a considerable review.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO:
Before we close this, we have 11 a half hour before we are due for affirmation.
We could 12 either proceed now to close this meeting or use the 13 int ervening time for any meeting we need on affirmation.
/
14 What do you recommend?
15 Why don't we recess for a couple of minutes while 16 those individuals who are not participating in the closed 17 meeting can leave and then we will go to the closed meeting.
18 (Thereupon, at 3:05 p.m.,
the Commission adjourned 19 to other business. )
20 21 22 23 l
24
/
25 l
ALDERSON REPOI. TING COMPANY, INC, 400 hAGINIA AVE., S.W., WASH,NGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 23eS
P n.
NUCLEAR REGULATOR'I COMMISSION This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the COMMISSION MEETING in the matter of:
PUBLIC MEETING - DISCUSSION OF DIABLO CANYON LOW-n POWER OPERATING LICENSE Date of Proceeding:
n,,7,, c e 2 7. 1991 Docket liumber:
Place of Proceeding:
Washincton, D.
C.
were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the Commission.,
Judith F.
Richard Official Reporter (Typed)
AA A
2 icial Reporter (Signat-e) ev r
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DIABLO CANYON SHIFT STAFFING - 4 SHIFTS BEQUIRED AVAILABLE MODES MODES TODAY OCT. 81 82 1,2,3,4 5,6*
7 w l0 fvl7 SR0 R0 8
4 13 w 17 N24 STA 4
0 5
5 N9
" EXTRA SRO NEEDED WHILE ACTUALLY. MOVING FUEi_
4
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DIABLO CANYON OPERATIONAL MODES l
MODE REACTIVITY E0WER AVG. TEMP.
\\
1.
POWER z 0.99
> 5%
ar350 F 2.
STARTUP.
e 0. 99, s 5%
2: ISO 3.
HOT STANDBY e 0.99 0
a350 4.
HOT SHUTDOWN 4 0.99 0
200-350
[
5.
COLD SiluTDOWN e 0.99 0
6 200 6.
REFUELING 4 0.95-0 6 140 l
HEAD OFF i
1 I
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s
+
DIABLO CANYON l
LICENSE EXAM RESllLTS FEB-MAR 1981 FAILE) SR0 L
' SR0 3 JT CANDIDATES PASSED PASSED R0 FAILED 5
'5 23 13 i
(56%)
(22%)
(22%)
CANDOATES PASSED FAILED 4
So 8
(33%)
a (67%)
4 k
e
+
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DIABLO CANYON SRO RE-EXAMINATION AUG. 31 - SEPT. 4, 1981 4 - COMPLETE SR0 WRITTEN EXAM 1 - SRO WRITTEN EXAM - SINGLE CATEGORY 1 - SRO ORAL EXAM ONLY d
e 9
e On
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= -
j DIABLO CANYOU LICENSING CANDIDATE PIPEl_INE
+
1 4
EXAM DATE CA!1DIDATES-AUG. 31 - SEPT. L 1981 6 - SRO 8 - RO l
i DEC. 81
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16 - SRO 3 - STAFF 13 - SHIFT OPS 1 - R0 i
s MAY 82 15 - R0 0
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DIABLO CANYON SRO EXPERIENCE JIABLO llaBLO POSITION PREVIOUS LICENSE tl0T FJNCTIONAL 3B _0E SHIFT SR0 BWR R0 119 DAYS 814 DAYS 165 758 SHIFT SR0 165 750 SHIFT SR0 SHIFT SR0 USN R0 0
149 SHIFT SR0
'BWR R0 148 716 SR OP ENGR.
N REACTOR SR0 0
135 USN 10)-
O 110 l
(BWR 3RO) l OP ENGR.
(
I OP SUPERVISOR BWR R0 16 400 t
i r
I 4
e 9
j g
4
DIABLO CANYON HOT FUNCT10tlAl TESTS 1
I;0V. 75 - FEB. 76 2.
t%R. 77 - F.AY. 77 3.
FEB. 79 - IMR. 79 e
O e
1 1
l
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1
(
)
DI ABLO CANYON INITIAL SCHEDULE i
MLS O - 14 FUEL LOAD ASSEMBLE, TEST
'14 - 76 76 - 83 ZERO POWER PHYSICS TESTS i
83 - 101 LOW POWER TESTS 101 - 157.
POWER ESCALATION.
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146 1007. FIRST TIME 169 COMMERCIAL I
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1
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1 8/25/81 License Condition Diablo Canyon Before the plant has attained a 100% power level, licensed personnel who are not regularly assigned members of the shift staff, including but not limited to the Operations Supervisor, shall not be assigned shift duties to satisfy the minimum staffing requirements for operation in Modes 1, 2, 3, 4.
Such persons may be used, if necessary, during the period of initial fuel loading.
Exceptions to this requirement may be made only after prior consultation
~
with and approval by the NRC.
09 9
--eg 4
9 l
m
~
i 8/25/81 r
1 License Condition Diablo Canyon The Pacific Gas and Electric Company shall augment the plant staff to provide on each shift an individual experienced in comparable size pressurized water reactor operation. These individuals shall have at least one year of
~
experience in PWR operation or shall 'have participated in the startup of at least three pressurized water reactors. At least one such experienced individual shall be on duty on.each shift during the initial fuel loading and through the startup test program whenever the reactor is not in a cold shutdown condition for at least the firs + year of operation or until the plant has attained a nominal 100". power level, whichever occurs first.
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TRANSMITTAL TO:
8 Document Control Desk, g
gl 016 Phillips y
ti h
V$-
ADVANCED COPY TO:
O The Public Document Room Y
F gi DATE:
August.28, 1981
/
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g l
Attached are the PDR copies of a Commission meeting p
transcript /s/ and related meeting document /s/.
They p
are being forwarded for entry on the Daily Accession p
List and placemenc in the Public Document Room.
No P
other distribution is requested or required.
Existing DCS identification numbers are listed on the individual b
documents wherever possible.
1.
Transcript of Commission meeting:
Discussion of Diablo Canyon Low-Power Operating License, August 27, 1981 (1 copy)
~
a.
Vugraphs presented at above meeting:
Diablo Canyo V]
ja e own Office of the Secretary 4
I.
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- _ _ _ - --