ML19350A974
| ML19350A974 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 02/27/1981 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8103170730 | |
| Download: ML19350A974 (31) | |
Text
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY CCMMISSICN f
(
In t:he.h of:
CONTINUATIOM OF KRIEFING ON HEARING SCHEDULES l
l C
DATE: February' 27, 1981 pAggg 1 thru 28 n:
Washington, D. C.
Q A[#k s6 to A IMT W M NG L
- - (
400 Vi_TMa Ave., S.W. Wasning.=n, D. C. 20024 Ta '.achena : (2001 554-2345 8108170 ) %
1 UNITED STATES CF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
3 CONTINUATION OF BBIEFING ON HEAEING SCHEDULES 4
5 PUBLIC NEETING 6
7 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 8
Room 1130.
1717 H Street, N.
W.
9 Washington, D. C.
10 Friday, February 27, 1981 11 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 12 2:13 p.m.
13 BEFORE:
JOHN F. AHEARNE, Chairman of the Commission 14 YICTCH GILINSKY, Commissioner 15 JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Commissioner PETER A. BBADFORD, Commissioner 16 STAFF PRESENT:
IT S. CHILK, Secretary 18 L. EICKWIT, General Counsel N. HALSCH ig E. HANRAHAN P. COTTER 20 W. DIRCKS H. DENTON 21 H. SHAPAR A. HOSENTHAL 22 23 24 25 ALoensoN REPo8TWG COWANY. INC, C M S.W. WASHWAToN D.C. 20024 (200 564-2346
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(2:13 p.s.)
2 CHAIRMAN AHEAR5E:
Yesterday af ternoon we had just 3
Board workload, begun to address the question of Licensing 4
resources and recommendations.
And what this af ternoon 's 5
6 agenda, at least as I see at the moment, vill censist of is that the head of the Licensing Board vill continue to 7
address his set of proposals.
We might have a discussion of 8
9 those.
Then there are two proposals, one from the General 10 Counsel and one f rom the Executive Director for Operations, 11 the possible modifications to the hearing 12 regarding And we vill hear about those.
13 process.
I do not intend to try to take the Commission to a 14 This is more in vote this af ternoon on any of these items.
15 16 the line of what we did yesterday, that is, to get out on the table some of these concepts, some of these issues.
17 We then, time permitting, would probably go into a 18 closed session to discuss some specific cases.
1g 5:00 o' clock?
20 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
Good.
21 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
5:00 o' clock?
22 COMMISSIONER BRADF0ED:
5:00 o' clock as an ending 23 time?
24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Yes.
25 ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY (NC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345 m
3 COMMISSIONEB GILINSKY:
I'm with Joe.
1 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
All right.
With that, Tony.
2 COMMISSIONER HEND RIE:
Dick used to do that for 3
4 us, When I tried to keep you all overlong, he would snuff 5 and snort.
I just feel I ave taken up his scheduling 6' duties.
1 (La ugh te r. )
7 CHAIRNAN AHEARNE:
As long as you only restrict it 8
g to those.
(Laughter.)
10 I
HR. COTTERS.
I began yesterdty by tryinc. to hit t
11 12 the highlights of what is involved b.sth in managing a I will not repeat Proceeding and, in writing a decision.
13 But I think that the description of what is 14 that today.
that the kinds l
involved in the decision writing points out 15 of time frames that we have heard discussed yesterday for 16 l
17 issuing decisions on large cases involving operating licenses or construction permits are iffy.
18 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
Do you know offhand what --
ig you used Pilgrim 2 as an example.
Do you know offhand what 20 the time was there from the last day's session until they 21 got an initial decision out?
22 MR. COTTER:
I believe it was the better part of a 23 24 Y'"E*
COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
Jesus.
25 t
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 YIRGINEA AVE. S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2346
4 I think much of the reason for MR. COTTER:
And 1
is a start and stop proposition, that, again, is because it 2
because often one or another 3 not simply the work itself, but of the authors have a responsibility to another hearing or 4
to another decision.
5 Yes.
CORBISSIONEE HENDRIE:
g Well, in the case of Pilgrim CHAIBMAN AHEARNE:
7 the fact that that might have somewhat have been affected by a
decision, the even if they wrote up that the Board knew that g
they were holding final decision could not be made because 10 it open for other issues.
11 NR. COTTERL That is precisely right.
That is 12 what resources to frequently a consideration in determining 13 fa allocate and what time frames to devote to the issuance o 14
'Particular decision.
15 This extremely large decision in Pilgrim is a 16 They have It is not the final decision.
partial decision.
17 completed hearings.
18 not Did you complete what you COH5ISSIONER GILINSKYz 19-vanted to say on that point?
20 ER. COTTERS Not really, but go ahead.
21 I wanted to take you back COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
22 ith John to the discussion we had yesterday, an exchange w 23 about the extent to which you had centrol over the 24 came out, l
And I think you said some things that proceeding.
25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, oN. D.C. 20024 (202) 564 2346-
5 I suspece, a little differently than you intended them.
1 But it left the impression --
2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Let's try again.
3 C055ISSIONER GILINSKY That the Boards really 4
lack the ability to control the proceeding.
5 CHAIRMAN AHEABNE:
That is not what your meno s
7 s ay s.
COHNISSIONER GILINSKY:
I wondered whether you g
9 wanted to say any more about that or whether you need more authority on that.
10 CONHISSIONER HENDRIE:
From a time standpoint, I 11 judge from the meno, which I have now had a chance to read 12 f
la with some care and which I think is a first class piece o work, with regard to the control over the time, I think the 14 Boards do not have as much control as they might have.
15 CHAIRHAN AHEABNE:
But on the other hand, as far 16 as part of it, and at least the issue I was addressing, I 17 You do say in your meno the APA agree with Dick's point.
18 10 CFR Part 2 presently. con tain virtually all of the and 19 their administrative judges need to conduct authority 20 p ro ceedings.
21 would enhance The issuance of a policy statement 22 At least what I that authority and f acilitate its exercise.
23 I think I I was a little surprised yesterday.
was reading, 24 share Vic's point.
25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY.tNC.
400 VIRGHA AVE. S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
6 MR. COTTER:
I may have let slip what is a larger 1
2 philosophical view of the adjudicatory process within the 3 Comaission, and I did not address that in this memorandum.
CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Would you mind expanding a bit 4
5 on that?
( Laughter.)
5 CHAIBMAM AREARNE&
As the gentleman this morning y
y said, speak frankly.
(Laughter.)
9 MR. COTTER &
I am not sure I want to.
to (Laughter.)
11 But did he meah it, John?
COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
12 l
(Laughter.)
ta MR. COTTERS I personally believe, on the basis of i
14 three months" observation, that the Licensing Panel has been 15 directed under Sectio 768 and 785 to exercise all of the 18 authority of the Commission, and they have had their right IT hand tied to their right foot and told to proceed.
18 The process that functions here is that the 19 to decide matters that judgment and discretion and authority 20 is vested by-the statute in the Commission is handed on to 21 and that a series of reservations the Boards only in part, 22 of authority are retained.
That I believe is not conducive 23 to the most efficient and effective operation of the 24 25 process.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, GW AVE., S.W., W ASHINGToN. D.C. 20024 '202) 554-2345
7 COMMISSIONEB BRADFORD:
Tony, is this apropos of 1
control of the procetling in the sense of intervenors and 2
issues, or are you talking more about the Marble Hill-Point 3
Beach type of situation, in which the Commission says, go 4
what shall I say, a very hold a heacing, but not, 5
6 wide-ranging --
MR. COTTERS No, I am talking more in terms of che 7
levels above the trial level, that retained jurisdiction at 8
until 9 could result in the trial level being told to stop ther get an answer from a question -- to a question f rom a 10 11 higher source.
example -- and I will address it a A perfect 12 little later on specifically -- is the situation which now 13 the staff has sought exists in the Diablo Canyon case, where 14 certification, requested certification of the issue to the 15 Commission.
Under the rules, that is perfectly proper.
16 I think the way an adjudicatory process ought to 17 operate is that the authority transmitted to the hearing 18 their processes should be boards should be complete and that 19 completed without any kind of interruption from the higher 20 authorities, which in due course will then have their 21 an appellate basis to review what was done.
opportunity c1 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE4 So you are not arguing against 23 the concept of the licensing Board being reviewe.d?.
24 HR. COTTER Oh, no.
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, o vino NimE. s.w. w NiNoroN. o.c. 2oou non su.2us
8 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
But rather, you are saying the 3
2 review should only occur when the Lice ns ?.ng Boa rd 's action 3 is complete.
5H. COTTEBa That is correct.
The review is now 4
5 piecemeal.
CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs And you see that piecemeal er
- 7. process as interfering with an effective hearing as opposed a to accelerating it?
MR. COTTERt Yes.
S COHNISSIONER HENDRIE:
Yes, but there are other 10 I
alements of scheduling that I think you mentioned in the it 12 paper, principallT the f act that the Board does not have, really have the power to compel essential parties to the 13 i
proceedings, to file by given dates and so on.
14 CHAIRMAN AHEABNE:
Including the staff.
1F 18 COH,5ISSIONER HENDRIE:
Host particularly the since the presence of staff documents in 17 staff, I suspect, most cases is a controlling ites on the pace at which it can j
tg f
19 go forward.
1 h% v, we have had vrangles at various times over f
20 j
21 whether or not the Boards ought to be allowed to in effect l
control some staff actions through that route.
And always 22 before we have held the proposition that the Boards ought 23 to, by their rulings in hearings, in effect become part 24 not of the management of staff.
25 ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
. 400 VWIGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
9 But how much do you think that element enters into 1
is to control the time, since that the Board's ability 2
3 present in every
- elemenc, E3. COTTE3s I think it is a significant A
so much in the sense that the Boards would say to 5 but not is in the a the staff,give me an SER within 90 days, as it that sense that everyone knows that the Board does not have 7
The Board does not have the authorit!
a kind of authority.
S effectively.
perhaps I believe there is one section that 1a have the effectively, the Board does not addresses it.
But 17 for authority to impose any repercussions on any party 12 acy act.
And that I failing to meet any date or perform 13 think is effectively the way it operates.
16 ER. BICKWITa Are you saying the Board does not 15 have the authority to compel the meeting of deadlines?
16 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
That is what he just said.
17 sorry, I was -- I would disagree MR. BICKWIT:
I'm 18 with that.
to For I would disagree as well.
MR. SHAPA3 2g comply with a discovery example, if the party does not 21 requirement of,,the Board on a timely basis, the contention 22 can be thrown out.
23 Has that ever been done?
HR. COTTEB:
24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
That is different.
That is 25 ALf?.RSoN REPoRTtNG COMPANY,(No.
AQ AVE, S.W. W ASHINGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
1 10 substantially different.
1 we have been trying to argue in The issue that 2
it whether the Board has the authority, some quarters is not I
3 it has.
is whether the Board exercises the authority that l
4 But there is an overlap, COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
5 because if you get in a situation where the Board thinks 5
it is not like that the contention can have some merit, 7
a litigation between private parties, where you can say that someone has forfeited his rights to a sum of money or to 9
have a duty performed.,
10 If the contention seems meritorious from the point 11 then it is of view of protecting public health and saf ety, 12 well, you were a matter fo - the Board to say, 13 not an easy week late in filing your papers and therefors forget about l
14 to do in the I suppose it would be easy i
is the contention.
case where the contention would seem marginal anyway, but 16 at a week, but and I should not leave it 17 I think, Peter, you are talking CHAIRNAN AHEARNE:
18 not whether they have the it, to the wisdom of doing jg authority to do it.
20 I agree they have the COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
21 jump to say --
authority...It is not a one-step the fact.
I 27 I as trying to identify HR. COTTER:
23 nor do I disagree -- did I do not agree with Mr. Bickwit, 24 say agree?
I meant disagree.
25 ALDERSoN REPofmNG COMPANY. INC.
- 02) 564-2345 C AVE., S.W., W ASHINGTON. D.C. 2tX)24 (:
19 (Laughter.)
the with both gentlemen that 1
MR. COTTER.
I agree is 2
what I an saying But l
authority is in the regulation.
ation of the Boards, 3
that the history and practice, the oper A
s Ls such
~
True, true.
CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs it has not exercised that 6
- that MR. COTTERr.
ity is not 7
~ authority,and the existence of the author 3
as I look effective.
Now, I gather, Tony, g
.CHAIRHAN AREARNE:
you to address some 10 perhaps I could get through this,that Obviously, i
11 of your recommendations and proposed act ons.
a number of 11 ing one thing you are doing is reconstitut 13 Boards.
to the poin t 14 Let me add one thing
- 53. COTTER &
that the 15 the length of time about that I was making I do not i i n writing.
16 processes go,particularly the dec s ot with the argument tha 17 philosophically have any dissgreemen imes.
18 decisions should be written in specific t is a I think that 19 Appendix B says 35 days.
~
is it Appendix A?
20 perfectly appropriate guideline -- or 21 A.
CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
appropriate 22 It is a perfectly HR. COTTERS hich took three days tc 23 guideline for those kinds of cases w 24 hear in 1972.
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 20024 (2tra $54 2345 C AVE., S.W. WASHINGTON. D.C.
12 2:27, Commissioner Bradford left (Whereupon, at 7
1 the room.)
4 MB. COTTER:
I do not think it is an unreasonable 3
fuel pool expansion.
I guideline today for a simple spent 4
do not think that it has any relationship to those cases 5
o where the record is anywhere from one story to four stories And I think it is possible to establish other 7 high.
o guidelines for issuance of decisions in those cases.
On the impacted Boards, we have designed a linear I
a schedule,which is reproduced and attached to your 10 in the back of your memormndua.
It is the first attachment 11 in one And on it we have attempted to lay out 12 semorandum.
place all of those cases which are either impacted o'r 13 scheduled for some kind of action within the next 30 14 15 months.
(At 2429 p.m., Commissioner Bradford returned to I
16 the room.)
17 HR. COTTER As a result of going through that 13 exercise, we have identified ten Boards which need to be it membership has conflicts reconstituted because their present 20 and could not possibly perf orm on one or more of those 21 I have listed those Boards in your memorandum and I 1
22 cases.
would like to emphasize that it is tentative until I get 23 I have identified things another 48 hours5.555556e-4 days <br />0.0133 hours <br />7.936508e-5 weeks <br />1.8264e-5 months <br /> to make sure that 24 the way they should be.
25 i
1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, OQ AVE., S.W. WASNINGToN. D.C. 20024 (202) 564-2346
13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEs But I applaud your going 1
2 through tha t effort.
That is excellent.
Exactly what 3
MR. COTTERS It has been very fruitful for us and 4
5 ve wil? continue to use it as a standard method for ixactly how the timing on the workload functions.
O examining Do you want ze to go through the particular 7
O reconstitutions?
CHAIRMAX AHEARNEa No, not unless -- no, all g
10 right.
That is exactly the kind of thing that we hoped you would do.
it MR. COTTER:
Good.
12 CHAIREAN AHEARNEs All right.
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Could I ask about this 14 10 UCLA Argonaut Research Reactor.
Is that so me thing that taker up a lot of time?
18 MR. COTTERt I think they have a week or two of 17 hearings scheduled for the fall.
It has not taken a lot of 13 is time.
They will take some.
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY&
I guess I give it a rather 20 low priority.
21-MR'. COTTERt Well, that is the problem.
If you g
I have touch one, it ripples through all the re st.
23 identified it in thh aemorandum as s Board that will be 24 reconotituted later on in the year, because the primary 25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC,
?-
14 1
concern with the UCLA Board and all the other Boards that 2 are chaired by Judge Bowers is that she is going to retire 3 in February.
4 And I should at this point perhaps go back to 5 Diablo Canyon.
s COMMISSIONER GILINSKY I would not let it impact 7 any of the others she is handling.
I would jus t put it 8 off.
~
9 MR. COTTER:
We are simply going to reconstitute 10 them all.
The only one I as going to leave her is Diablo 11 Canyon, if -- if she has the authority to set and keep 12 deadlines, because if she does not she should be te%en off 13 it right now.
And that case is scheduled to start h;3aring 14 on fuel loading on May 19.
15 But there is no vay, with the flexibility of these i
16 schedules, that if anything slips in there she can complete 17 that case before February of next year.
18 I point out that these dates are based on data 19 that.we received on February 9.
Most of that data is still 20 good, but there are -- there were at least four significant 21 changes that appeared today.
The only one that appears significant in terms of 22 our scheduling is Diablo Canyon, because originally the 23 Diablo Canyon full power hearing was scheduled for August.
24 Now it is scheduled for October.
25 ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400LWIGINIA AVE, S.W, WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 564 2345 s -
15 1
CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
Now you are hoping to get one j
2 additional lawyer quite soon; is that correct?
3 MR. COTTERS Yes.
I discovered yesterday that one 4 of the men who had been appointed as a lawyer chairman can 5 be detailed from the Department of Energy.
And I have e scheduled his to go to the National Judicial College next 7 week and he gets a case ten days from now.
p COENISSIONER BR ADFORD a Whose employee is he?
S HR. COTTERS The Depa rtment of Energy 's.
Ig COHNISSIONER BR ADFORD s I am not sure that that is i
tt a good idea.
But let me think a little bit more about it.
12 3R. COTTERa The Commission has the pcuer to reach 13 out and designate anyone that it wants to hear cases, so 14 long as they do not have a conflict.
Is CHAIRMAN AHEARNEL This is someone that we 16 selected.
17 COHHISSIONER BRADFORD:
No, I understand.
1g CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
But the freeze has hit us.
19 CONNISSIONER BR ADFORD s I realize it is someone 20 that we want to have hearing panels.
But 11 HR.-COTTER:
We will be very ~ careful in 22 assignments, to make sure there is no conflict of interests 2g problems.
CHAIRHAN AHEARNEt Okay.
How about your other 24 25 recommendations, Tony?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, CDO Kh0.W,_wm @.@. EED_Gg52ms____ ____
16 in My other recommendations deal with MR. COTTER:
aught in the obvious, unfreeting the people c 1
part the 2
You and Harold share that.
3 freece.
CHAIRMAN AHE ARN E:
the with Harold about I might argue 4
MR. COTTER &
of a six caught out 5
a percentage impacts, since I got I have 15.
of 18.
At present the potential f ull-time dum that I have also indicated in this memoran 7
en, which is a critical 3
i number of f ull-time lawyer cha rm l, has declined by some S
f actor in the operation of the pane in f ull-time In 1975 we had 10 40 percent since 1975 to get one more.
We are about 17 chairmen; today we have 8 workload domands not only 12 the
- judgment, been appointed, but And in my the other person who has I think the proof of 13 unfreezing n
14 obtaining two more lawyer chairme.
workload distribution t and the is that is by examining the charYou can see all the lawyer
^6 t
for the lawyer chairmen.
tly fully occupied, and ye 17 chairmen that we have are presen d and we know some things 18 l
- so that we have a new work oa do not have such as the Indian Point Board, we 19 are coming, 20 to them.
anyone to appoin' you mention in here, I
- Now, 21 CHAIRHAN AHEARNE.
d s
of using administrative law ju ge 22 of think, the suggestion means of alleviating some 23 from outside the agency as a 24 that problem.
25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, NflW., WASHINGTON D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 L
97 administrative lav
- 23. COTTERS Yes.
I believe would in two or three situations, which 1
judgee can be used t would act require 2
greatly ease the burden on the Lanel, bu And those situations 3
any great internal debate to do it.
hearings, and 4
itrust are the civil penalty hearings, the ant j
5 those.
s I am particular1r concerned about one or two more antitrust hearings, If we get will have six man-years gone.
7 under our present system we 8
(Laughter.)
I think that our present I
g
- 58. COTTERt But 10 of those aesbers, are l
resources, given the unf reezing 11 And I think that l
we have now.
adequate to deal with what d be used, or should be 12 the administrative law judges coul And we have 13 now.
They are not established as a resource.
anel who have 1A at this point two oc three members of the p he past and 15 served as administrative law judges in t 16 consequently would be qualified.
the Office of the IT that The problem is basically complete Administrative Law Judges within OPM exercises 1a tg to agencies of control over both the appointment f an administrative 20 administrative law fudges and the use o ht agency's judge from outside the agency to hear t a 21 direction law And I would very much like the authority,
22 i h that office in case.
23 or suggestion to initiate discussions w t l
that resource for future use.
24 order to establish 25 i
ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY INC, CG S.W. WASHINGTON. OA 20024 (202) 554-
18 1
MR. SHAPARs I'd like to point out, in the past 2 admin!.strative law judges have been used in enforcement 3 cases.
Of course, they were our own.
So we have to build 4 up our --
5 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE It certainly seems that Tony 1
s ought to be allowed to start talking to OPM about it.
7 CONHISSIONER HENDRIEa I find the total set of recommendations in this paper to be eminently sensible.
We 8
9 are clearly in a period now, and will be in a period, in which that great peak of CP's of my youth are now arriving 10 11 as OL's.
12 (Laughter.)
13 COMEISSIONER HENDRIEs And as fast as Harold can 14 get them out of his shape why, they f all, in ef f ect, into 15 rours.
And I think we are just going to have to supplement i
1g in various ways on the Boards to get through the next few i
17 Y e'a rs.
And I think all the recommendations, the proposed 18 solutions, are eminently reasonable.
It CHAIRHAN AHEARNE You also were looking for some 20 21 administrative support?
HR. COTTER: -Yes.
I would like to address that 21 with the same intensity that I feel about the panel 23 24 members.
You can sit down and write brilliant decisions until the and of-time, but if there is not anybody there to 25 ALDERSoN REPORTING CoWPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WA6M!NGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2346
19 4
to do you much good.
is not going type thwa up it all your Scard 1
I thought COMMISSIONER HENDRIEs 2
100 words a minute.
members had to type 3
(Laughter.)
4 Some of them do, in a pinch.
HR. COTTER 5
(Laughter.)
I thought I remembered e
CONHISSIONER HENDRIE isn't that right, 7
their own, All of Len's people type a tha t.
S Len?
CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
Yes.
10 On a per capita basis, we have a MR. COTTERL 11 minimus quantity of typed material that comes out.
I You are suggesting secretarial 12, CHAIRHAN AHEARNE:
13 support and law clerks?
14 HR. COTTER:
Yes.
I gather the right ratio to 15 CHAIRHAN AREARNE:
considering you use three-member Boards, is not so 16 look at, clerk per Board; is 17 such the law clerk per person as a law ig that correct?
I tried to do here 19 What 3R. COTTER:
Not exactly.
I could use a dozen law 20 some sort of realism.
was attempt I have 62 Boards, I have 62 2r clerks right now because in fact And' each one of those cases could use the 22 active cases.
23 attention of a law clerk.
in their 24 Now, because they are intermittent 25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, C~0 VIRGINLA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024
20 activity,one law clerk can be used for more than one case.
1 2 I can use everything I can get.
And one law clerk per the ideal active panel, f ull-time panel member, vo uuld be 3
4 ratio.
COMMISSIONER GILINSKYs It seems to me to be a 5
a reasonable request.
HR. COTTEB t I feel it is.
We have situations 7
frustrate the Commission as much as they do us.
a that I know For example, McGuire is sitting right now and the S
the environmental to environmental member of McGuire is also two or three other ESEber for Rancho Seco, for Pilgrim, and it 12 Boa rds.
I think his workload is back there, and three of 13 those are within a 90-day time f rame in a posture for 14 A law clerk could do a lot of the initial work and 15 writing.
save a great deal of that member's time, by massaging the 16 saterial o'n the record and setting it up so that he cac 17 issues.
focus immediately on the important 18 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
That seems to be -- these are tg But you need some also the kind of people who are froren.
20 additional spaces too.
21 HR. COTTER:
Yes.
Yes, I do.
22 MR. BICXWIT Mr. Chairman, f or what it is worth 23 advice would be to ask
-- and this,is not legal advice -- my 24 for what is needed in this area at this point, rather tnan 25 i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 564-2345
21 1
what you realistically expect you can get.
I think there is needs.
will be very receptive to satisfying 2 a climats that CHAIRMAN AHEABNE:
I think wha t you just said is 3
the sa me.
4 you said both were I think he said we could COMMISSIONER HENDRIE 5
If we ever cet this freeze a use a few more law clerks.
to look at the proposed distribution of unfroze,we ought 7
200 of them, and I propose to S thos slots.
There are about somebody else go what is needed into the Boards, let e put 10 thin.
CHAIRNAN AHEARNEs And you also want some travel It money and odds and ends, right?
12 NE. COTTER:
Yes.
13 I think -- now, you have CHAIRMAN AHEARNE Okay.
14 the end a proposal for a draft proposed stuck on at 15 Was this in the fashion that you felt statement of policy.
16 it was a proposal from you, or is this in the fashion of, 17 here is something that if we think this is a good idea you 18 would like to work on?
Ig NR. COTTER:
The latter.
I tried to address those 20 the Commission could do within f actors or those things which 2t its authority and within the context of the present rules, 22 that I thought would expedite the process.
23 One of them is somewhat mechanical, and that is 24 the iteration or the reiteration of the use of those sim ply 25 ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
20024 (202) 554 2345 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W WASHINGTON, D.C.
i 22 kinds of management tools that hearing officers have at 1
their disposal. And if the Commission were to speak to that 2
3 in a policy paper, I think it would have a much greater impact than if individual Board members were simply to 4
to make whatever efforts they could in the course of I
5 attempt a managing the hearings.
The second general area that I addressed as a 7
subject for the Commission to consider is the area of 3
I am not really S contentions and the refinement of them.
is 10 prepared at this point to go into a defense of what I simply tried to identify those areas mentioned there tt where I thought some action could be taken, again within the 12 confines of the existing rules.
13 On the point -- I guess it COMMISSIONER BRADFORD4
(
14 issues that is on the first page in there -- about hearing 15 and do not have an impact on the public health and safety, 16 therefore you suggest operation could be permitted before 17
- is that something we they were resolved, is that in fact 18 can do?
to issues, for l
I always understood that on antitrust 20 to have a example, the parties often valve their right i
21 If they insisted ommences.
hearing bef ore plant operation 3
on the hearing, they would get it, Am I wrong about that?
23 HR. SHABARa.
No, yvs are right.
If it is an issue 24 environmental -- and a within our authorit y -- an titrust, 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE. S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 2T*> (202) 564-2346
23 is raised, it has to be genuine issue of material fact 1
i adjudicated fully before the plant can go into operat on.
2 Unless a vai'ver coula COMMISSIONER BBADFORD:
3 the parties.
somehow be initiated among 4
Or unless you promulgate rules to MR. BICKWIT:
5 e the contrary.
Those kinds of issues and questions MR. COTTEB klist of are exact 1r why I have characterited this as a chec 3
a possibilities, rather than --
same line,rather Along that CHAISMAN AHEARNE:
10 the than get into the legal debate between counsel at 17 f
noment, you mentioned the private rights capable o sure -- I 12 To a non-lawyer, I am not vindication elsowhere.
13 about.
So can you do not understand what you are talking 14 tell se what that means?
the most difficult 15 MR. COTTER :
That is probably 16 question you could ask me.
(
17 f
(Laughter.)
What was intended to be identified 18 MR. COTTER:
l
' private rights could be vindicated 19 was, wha t it says, The identifica tion is the difficult part.
20 elsewhere."
you give me an example?
21 Ccald CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
l if a man 22 Well, in emergency planning, HR. COTTEB:
his bus would 23 who owned a bus two counties away was afraid h t he would 24 not work when the emergency came, I believe t a 25 l
M.DERSoM REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
20024 '202) 564-2345 400 VIRGMA AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C.
24 1 have the eight to enter into the proceeding.
No?
MR. SHAPAR:
I an juct listening.
2 (lauchter.)
3 CONEISSIONER HENDRIE:
And raise what sort of 4
5 pro bleas 7 ER. RICKWITs Raise his concern about his own e
7 safety.
1R. COTTER:
Yes.
8 NR. BICKWIT I would say yes.
9 CORRISSIONER HENDRIEs I see.
to CHAIREAN AHEARNEs And that is prisarily a private F
11 12 interest.
So " private" is an interest, you are viewing that, that is an individual per se, as opposed to a concern 13 about a class of people.
14 HR. COTTER Yes.
15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE:
So when you say that issues 16 which do not raise considerations, significant public 17
\\
related to a interest considerations, an issue primarily 18 3g private interest, I can define that as being an issue related to a single individual.
20 HR. COTTER :
That is right.
And the difficulty 21 becohes in deciding th at it relates solely to that 22 individual, rather than to others.
23 1
CHAIREAN AHEARNE:
I see.
24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
When you say someone is 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMP ANY. INC.
400 VIRGINLA AVE. S.W. W ASHeNGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345
O
- 25 1
affected by the plant, th ou gh, we mean that his individual 2 interest is affected?
3 3R. COTTER:
It depends upon the nature of the 4 interest.
For example,if it is monetary interest, I do not 5 think so.
MR. BICKWIT:
But if it is a safety interest, the 3
r answer is yes.
MR. SHhPAR:
Or his interest is affected under a 3
g matter under our jurisdiction.
That would have to be 10 litigated under my theory.
CHAIENAN AHE?.2NE:
Well --
11-HR. COT *ER:
That is why it is a checklist.
12 (Laughter.)
1c CHAIENAN AHEARNE:
Okay.
14 l
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY :
Let me just say an 15 18 anecdote. 'In France I asked about their proceedings and asked what someone does who was unhappy about a plant.
And i
17 of course, in the mayor's office there's a book and you can 1g vrite down your complaint.
19 I said, can you -- is there some administrative 20 21 proceeding that you can -- in which you can raise your g[concernsabout saf e ty, whatever.
And they said, no, you cannot bring up any questions of your own interests; you can 23 only question whether the plant is logical.
24
( La ughte r. )
25 M oERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, NWToNa 0.C. 20024 (202) 56&2345
26 CHAIEEAN AHEABNE:
It could be a new standard.
1 All right, any questions of Tony?
2 (No response.)
3 CHAIH5AN AHEARNE:
I think it is a very good 4
5 pa p er.
I was leafing through several of the proposals.
Certainly I think you ought to go and talk about the 3
administrative law judges.
And if we can ever get the 7
freece off, I share Joe's view.
We ought to allocate some 3
9 resources to meet their needs.
But as f ar as the last statement, I think we are 10 going to have to look at th at in the context of some of the 11 other suggestions that have come up.
12 C0!5ISS ONER HENDEIE:
The policy statement d raf t, ja idea to try to issue some guidance, I think it is a got 14 15 even if it just reis,
'tes a number of things previously 16 said. The time seemed require some sort of statement by the Commission.
Whether 1 ought to be combined with 17
'ould do, that could very well perhaps some other things we 18 Ig be.
What I would Like to suggest is, Tony and the 20 legal of 2icss gather together, an L OPE perhaps could stick 21 their hand in to help by way of trying to rework the draf t, 22 And then we looking toward a Commission policy statement.
23 and we could work might find other things we wanted to say, 24 on those draft sections.
25 ALDDISoN REPORTING COMPANY IMC, 400 VinGMA AVE. S.W., WASHooGioN. o.C. 20024 (202) 564-2345
27 1
CHAIRMAN AREARNE:
I agree we have to tell the 2 Boards something, if for no other reason than, having raised 3 all of these issues, I think the Boards deserve being told 4 how the Commission has come out.
5 But I believe there are a couple of points that a Bill has raised in his memo and some in Len's memo that we 7t. have to see hou we como out on those in order to incorporate s into what Tony has proposed or modify what Tony has
~
a proposed.
10 I agree with you that we ought do it, but I think 11 ve are going to have to wait.
11 HR. COTTERt I wo uld like to add a suggestion, 13 that those things having to do simply with the conduct of 14 proceedings might be broken out and acted upon separately 15 from the family of recommendations that you are getting 1g here.
17 CHAIENAN AHEARNEs Yes, yes.
1p HR. COTTER:
Those would be more discreet and they 19 are more easily, I suspect, agreed upon.
CHAIRNAN AHEARNE:
That is true.
I would not go 20 21 as far as the last statement.
But I would agree with the 2i other.
1 l
(Laughter.)
23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEL Any other questions of Tony?
24 l
(No response.)
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,.NC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASNINGToN, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2346
o...
7 28 1
(Whereupon, at 2:52 p.m.,
the Commission meeting 2 was adjourned and the Commission proceeded to other 3 business.)
4 5
5 S
T E
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19-20 21 22
~
23 24 25 ALDUISON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIfMHNBA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 564-2346 _.
O NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSICN This is to certify tha: the attachec proceedings before the in the :::atter of: CONTINUATION OF BRIEFING ON HEARING SCHEDULES
- Date of Proceeding: February 27, 1981 Docket !!u::bar:
Place of Proceeding: February 27, 1981 were held as herein acpears, and that this is the original transcrip thereof for the file of the Coc::lission.,
"svid S. Parker Cfficial Reporter (Typed) 1 j
x
'l e m
(5 : 2 A ~i;?I O T ?.I ? C R C R) 4
~
/
- -, - _._.