ML19344B409
| ML19344B409 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | South Texas  |
| Issue date: | 09/23/1980 |
| From: | HOUSE OF REP. |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19344B405 | List: |
| References | |
| ISSUANCES-OL, NUDOCS 8010200557 | |
| Download: ML19344B409 (102) | |
Text
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TRE$1EGULATION'ANS7 CONSTRUCTION OF MUCEE'A1 POWER!PLANTSH J - a %w.
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J 32 TUESDAY,15EpTEMBER 23 c1940:
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Committee en Interstate and Foreign Commerse N
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< 3Thel subcommittee mat,tpursuant to notice,0at 9:05 a.m.,
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09 :EckhardtD[ohairmanLof the subcommittee]' presiding, j
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Representatives Lant,Markey.-Danneasyer,-
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- Mr.EEckhardt. = The:subcommittaa_uill commenoa its_
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- This. morning.the subcommittaa considers an area of~
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environment,:as well.as.our eco'nomy'and'independanoa,.as 16 17 they are:a fec et d by.ouzi. anergy 1 supply.
Today's, hearing.
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- 18 Tuill. focus upon theToonstzustion of-commazoialfnuclear pouaz y
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19 ~ plants and:the zagulation-of'.that construction by the 30 iMuoleaz: Regulatory; commission.-
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- As~importantits uns the debata ovaz theiaccident at Thz'as-
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' Mile Island, no less-significant, I beliava,-is;thersozutiny,
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'over the constzustion'processiby-'... safety should1be M514 Lhuilt %to'afnucles'ziplant. ' clearly, an operating uni _t uill=
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. beLao better initerasLof. safety then is thecir."
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~, PAGE. 2 g '. 2yy(y W,3: $24: t steel?and ther somesete pi uhich it;is construe'ted. 7 sr a
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- 27 1The coenittee'is
- pleased-to have the appearanee today of.
1:% $ ' g M. 4 Wa... "24 Jthe; Chairman'aisthe-Nucleaz' Regulatory Commisasion'and its 3 2 LDiitector'of Zaspedtion.andlEnforsument~in order that ue 0 l19 30 ght d'isouss'the efforts oilthe: Commission's: inspection and ~ -31 endezoenent?piecess: generally, and to examine hou that ^* g 32 ;processf functioned at onefspesidio project, namely, the 3'8 ' South Texas Muelear ' projaot. N> 34 LAs'ue'will hearTiron testimony, the south Texas prejaet'
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" ~ 35 Ih'as. oveir fthe f pasEt"isu -years experienced.- significant problems ~ '36 lzesulting from enfinadequate quality assuranos and quality leontrolprogram.)3Theseproblemsreachedthapo. int'thatla. ~ 47 ,. s10.0.000 sivil pensity was assessed and a Show-Cause Ozdez 34 i 139 issued against the. licensee Houston Lighting and power. ,j n t P
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40 The~~ difficulties at.tl.a south' Texas Nuclear projest raised I s-Ett ' questions od;. safety, caused delay and increased costs. We j y L '4 t I.'vant?tolexaminexthese matters and the Nuclear Regulatory. i h 43 yonaiss' ion'siendorsement: activity in connection with that d' 44. project ~to detezaine whether the problems have been l f' W .45 .cozzested..what sosttoonseguences vill ultimately be'pleoed 1 ?- on --the oonsumer. - and whether 'there. sa:e lessons Eto be -learned -to s f a .~ .o ,/ . 47 c for..the ?isture. + '44 Refere' ve begin. - I helieve 's word is in order: about the
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t ~ ~. 49 adjudicatory;zesponsibilities of the Nuclear'16gulatory-f u. y V lcommiss' ion'and theEconstral.nts'the chairman:of the i 50 ' V. L b l ~
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g+. w,;. m; _ a: ' @..,. =.N- 'NAME:h5tFS$7450 ' PAGE' 3 ,; e 79- ^ [ 151 i commission ~is;eparating under in testitenF.bedere us today. ] w ~ ~., .i
- 53 i These cis a line~ ' l esses whiek' I believe we should be
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- mindfulfei-uhanime guestion the chaizman this meaning. -
~l~ 54 ' Ttaase.' esses':have anuneisted what is commonly ealled ' the . 155 1pillsbuzy?de'etzine1and stand for two sentral j 56 fpzopositioas.- s 4 b s '57 Fis h, that'when Members of the congress-lean-heavily on-1 i ]54 g.ovazamentsifdecision-makers with respect te-uatters before ~ ~ 59 Ithese< officials Lin' adjudication, the appearance of 'q .40 ' imp az'tiality ' ' o'i the 'offisials may be comyzonised vith the i 61 fresult that they"may ha'disgualified dzon further' 62 participation in the matter. [ 63
- Second,-Ldecision-makers who declare themselves in-
'64 Congressienal testimony and alseuhere on~~fiots which are 65 -: involved in a proceeding before-them may.be. held.to.have q ~ ~ '66 'pzejudged' relevant-issues.- The remedy-again is 47 -disqualification. I knou the subcommittee uill be sensitive 64 to-these considerations-An ouz gudstioning of Chairman i .i '69 Ahearne today. 70 At this time, va-would appreciate hearing from chairman ~ '11
- John ahearne' and.Mr. - Victor Stallo, : MAC's Dizestor: v' the 1
( 71 Office of Inspection and Enforcement. 33I But beform we pz'oceed,DMr. Lent,ldo you have a statement?. i ~ M .74 Mr. Lent. Thank you [Mr. Chairman. a l75 (I sa: happy to have you as vall,: Chairman'Ahearna, and your 'p 3: r ..d' OO _.2;. - -M ~ ' " DD w m M1 s
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' gM..f. "77 $impoztant! issue soflthe" safaty; of ausleaz - plant ;oonstzustioni ~ - - g. .~x . : w-m,- -i,:. M ?74 Ein general andfthe1 South Texas: Pro:le'et in;particular? ( ...x 4
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-o - 4 179 , I;as asLconoezaad::about'the safetytof.nuolearlpouestplants 2 W' h 5
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Myloun-Distziot's..utilityk4Long; s LIsland : Lighting. Company. is L building.one! planti, lShbrah'am, f ~ . u, ~ ] 81 .n. zigh{ aou.-;Nousvez,fuelaze goingitoihave to(fseacsome) hards I ?42 J.: e + ,s,. ' 4' 3 ifacts. Oux : dependenos" on = foreign _ oil.. has t.eaerged. as.iar( y y s 2 intolerable-thseat to;eas nation'al saouzity andithe f ik 44 t L45.stan-of-war.and/aotive:azaad' conflict neufbetween Izan'and. j ~ 4 0- '44 ?) j '. Isar.show hou frighteningly fragile our Middle -East oil u .47 ' supply-zeally'is._ What-if thisIconflict spreads? M 44 jfhuse the.importance.of your agency in implementing.the: "j ,8 49 announced ' 's'ezal ! policy; of reducing : dependence er. f oreign ' ' ~ 94. 'oilicaum ne overstated.-_Muslear power is an' essential. 91 alternative that we have.-The-. Economic Regulatory 91 : Adahistr.ation' reports -that: 40 nuclear-f acilities azey [ (93 :.sohadu'~r.ed to; goi into commercial operation by 1943.. p ~ i, J94 displacing' '374,400- bazzels'of'ioreign oil daily. LILCO's-e 95 Shorehan facility __foz Long Island is-one of them, yet'.LILco; ~
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94 hesineen.stzuggling'foz.~over five years:to gat.MRC approval.' -.4 4 .i + .97 _ Chairman Ahearna. I hope you are aware that.my1Distziet is. .+ .almost totally dependent-on foreign: oil,'as.is mostrof the L94 2 3 ~ 99 Xostheast.. :I' understand.these are:many zessons for these 7, ~ y
- 100 Jinterminablidelays.. ione usak spot is nzely theanumbezTof, j
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,K... )Anothez is2the*J ast1thatDso:JmanyJay[MRC >, ~ :103 i'-ps,Weedings. : ~ i ~ gn le. i .w f ' 1 " R 1 0,3 Jpers -'ennelsversitaken-off the lisensingryzooess after thel .z m, ~~ n '_.', , '7 . > 7.' '104 !Three Mile 1Talandcinoident.. a Y t '. d. ~ 7 y i W (108 ~ InLany ev'ent', it is very~olea's thatfue:sustiget these, M M: n.. 4 . Plants :. istAjoyeratioN5 at's' do it juickly. Let's do?it-t n f '104 L 7 - ~ ~ J107 fsafely.;tLat?s'do it:before anothernintezzuption'in' the. .100 tsupply of.ioreign oil.~ u. v f ics 109
- Th'ank.. you', ' Mr. Chairman. -
-110 1Mr.' Iokhazet. 1We -austomarily swear. the uitnesses.before 111 tMs subcommittee. 1 13 ((Mr.EAheazne' sad Mr~.'Stallo suozn.']
- Mr. Chairman, you may proceed in your'ount f.
_-113
- Mr.:Eckhardt.
~' A._ j 1114. order. ~ ~ m__ 115 1 o e. 114 iSTATEMENT 0F J0MM y.-~ANEARME, CHAIRMAN..U.S. MUCLEAR- .x 3117 iREGOUTCIT C0!a1ISS20M. g ji 5 2e -
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,q: a: Mr. Ahearne.. Thank you,:Mr. Eckhardt. .:119 4 4 e : l120 Mr.: Chairman,fandmembersof]thesubcommittee,.I-as' c w - wm 7121 pleased:to appear before you to discuss.the South Texas jV ~ ^122 Jnuelear. power plantiand other related :sub:lects identified in-o, W; , (.' M u - :123 'youzJ4uly,11jleStazciaviting as.to[ testify.< < x. ,a sgg
- 124 N The'.MRC?s principal missica'is to_ protect the publio 4
~- - b. ' ~ .,,-o ~..n. ~ s , MJ, L125 !healthiandfsafety inithe fie1dLof' nuclear energy. This is % ggx,- a + a'5 t y 1 L .l l?: Y-3 'h y E t g,. 1 f.. A s 1 R' w _ t N ns., z,, &. a' ;j) ~W..w w ; ", h"e
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,1 (134 ' lasoompliishad ithrough ;.the fpzooessestof licensing an&D d ,?' _% W s r. R j!' 7i137 iseguistionp soupled with'an inspection progsaalto: monitor-l s lw, a ..~ n.. t y cm .+ 3".. ~ . licensee'slcomplianoa'vith the7 azasfof theili~oense-and with 1 f Mc 134 ,., e.m sp C ,, A. (129 ?.theizegulations'. :' a n. m m m., ? ' ~ ' ' '3 g. .4 1130 f:TheseiMRC?pzooesses_'have 'beenHappliedf.to1the South Texas, s
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e aO 'c 11'3'1 ;pitojectn -m ..a v. [133 .MRC's"inspe'otion : activities ( led?.to -- the : eaf ozoenent L action ~ n.., -1 '133 ;againstiseuth' Texas which :is r the.subjeot ioi' principali - x.. .-e m !a : f 7);, %. 'm 134 .intereststoday.- n 135
- Ithave'with asiVictor Stello, Jr. who is thelDirector'ofl
~ o / 134 ith's;0ffice.of Inspection-and-Enfozoenent. Mr. Stallo uill' 4 137 provide details:oftthe:pzoblems.ati he project..: Harold. ,j t .. J d 138 -Thornburg,?the DizeotorLof the Division.of1Remotox 139 ConstzustionsInspection'and Karl sayfzit. the Director'of u@ 140
- Region LIV,Euhuelthe South Texas plant -is located,: are - also-
{ f-' 4 W. '141 [here~,fandithe_four:of~us will.zespond to-any iuestion'you-.- ~ '1 1143 may:have.. -In: addition,'because of the issues that the chairman =had) 143 1144 alluded to'in'his opening: remarks', our'Geneza'l Counsel:is' ~ .'y y - L145 $1hezeito haGvise ema_ on ex parte matters which-we may Jget in. ~ c j._ 4;. 9toh rNopefully;not, butLifIve do.-he will advise me.; 3 m 3146 Lm J147 =<:' ~ n;. - AsfaibackgroundM the constzustion atLthe South Texas- ~ g ',w -. " ~ 7' f1. 48 Jproja.et; started lin. late:1975 follouinsLissuance of.a' limited ~ 1 s.> f<_ 1.149.: Work : Authozimationi by.the - MRC.- Constzustion pezmits Jere e .c s -150 ; issued by.:the 'MRC Tin' December: of 1975. The. pressurized ,r x g h I Al, ) I 7 '. 7 ,a , '? k l ~ t O 4 l Y'6wl ~ 4 ^lh.c 7 y - y,
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, 158 Atuo punits Lat ',the l site 91s a_- little iless : than--- 60tpezoent; H 154 itheteenstzustor.: LAt:tsisltime,Hoonstzustion'ofLthe':firstiofl ' ^.c" v - ^ y ~. . ~. .n, ~' 7,c 1 n:n,. 'somplete.fand the 'second is Ja '11ttle'.more than 20lpezoen't. W . - 1154 .~w .. :a 1157 completen * - c ' L 54 / (AsNyezooisedsby.. thel NRC, thelb'asio problemiat South Texas? f 1. 1 159'. san."bef summazisodias-- inadequate ' licenseelsontrolf of : the + .g /y v I g .160 ;constzno.tioniprocess,/ leading to serious' deficiencies'in.the. /161 (quality assuranos program.s As<a result, we havettaken.at
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~ r ld -161 .numbez3 f enfotoe' ment: actions in this< case,~inc u ing. the R 4 m .issuanceiofiimmediatel' action ^1stters and-a Shour.Cause Order 163 184 lan(thetimpositiontof civil: penalties. Itz.. Stallo = has 9 u m . d, ilsa ".furtheridet' ails aonoerning-that? effort-in his testimony. ,s- -o 166 J:Before Ieturn?to'the: specific.questionsJthat you asked' 167 Lior,in;yourflattes : I uould likexto note th'at last week---- L ~ . 4 144 last Fridab ?in fast----the Commission'zuled upon;a, request by. a: 169 tuoiintervenoz[ groups'for hearing on the Shou cause order r c..... p' < 170 uhieh-had?resulted fron our inspection enfotoement effort, ' ' ~ 'i ~ A '171 .andithat:0xder;was;publisheetyesterday. Consistent with' 1 f 172 ~~.. w:.
- resenti' case 'lau 'atiour' agency,;the Commission-declined to z-oz'erfa?hearingJon theTintervenors quality assurance-fW l173 d
~ L174 ' allegation %in^tho contest"of:the enforcement action. c l-Nouavez,/zeoosnising the seriousness of those allegations
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Ar %p ?. v. 2:- '.':- ?177 runanimously:agzeedEthatJthefintervenors should be: permitted: .s-... -- r -.. s 6 R, u. ~ ~ ' ~~ - -u g,zg,ggyyggti atefth'osejohanges-in,the-pendingiopezating S wg m 79 9, o
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+ ~ e,d~v h179 (lidensefpzoosedingaforjthe South Tex'as facility..and that ~ , c. M.^ ISO Sthel.lisensing[bfo'az4?inIthat ease should issuelan ~ expedited,;
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W. M L141 PpastialiinitiA1 decision.on these oharges. l bm.... 7J1 The: Commission indicated that the -operating license . '142 1 . 123 :applicationjaight;be.danied..ifithe. facts. support an u n, ?t44, 'unsoseptableJabdioation :sf-either, zesponsibility : for foz ' 'q ir:, ~ v.., .. ~
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~, J.Zn" approving,that: approach, of ocurse, the Commissionidid-e' -144 : not. presume u toi preNe. ge dhe pending. operatingElicense 2 4 [-. 149 iproceedingb in' the..same;uay.that,Ifu111:saphasise my-s 4 .f . *Ltsstimonyeshoul'dn'tibe viewed;as; reaching judgments about ~,wh[ '.190 t
- 19.1
. therissua'in that proceeding.'. That proceeding.aus._be s '112 resolve 4 solelyJon:the~ basis of the evidentiary. record c ~ a,m.x, 1.97. compiled 2inif.tuthe; statements'I make haze today which - ~- ttS4
- relataito.the matters.-at issue in,the proceeding should be.
,. g. 195,regardedLaslprovisional. ~ ~ 196 Za"yoursletter'ofiduiy 11, you asked.for comment- [K 119.7 sonoezning.theJdifferent; forms of~ project management-- s , _ w: ~ E ~
- 194 employed {hy utilities.in'the constzustio'n:of a nuolear power
~ ^ ~ 199
- plant and,theiz relative: merits.
- s-y L200
- Nouston Lighting and pouez has" employed.theisame fixa ass a
i 4 O ~ e.A5$g % .'..,#4 'b,:
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- n...
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- o w
4
- n
'204 lazohitecht/engineaziand:constzustor. 1R w" 4 7 s ~., -;a
- . _;. ;;m....
G' ..:n ~ 'yes-example, the Tennessee 3alleyfAuthority frequently: We n205 ,..:.. ~ .v-cm " ~ ' _ - 1206 ?aots(in a111three;ow asities, whilatother'licensass_eaploye ' i n. U 4 + #'t ,i J207
- sschitect/ engineers;uho aza?independentEfrom the.
x_. e;. s y ~ s,' M200joomst'auctor. It.'hastbeen: ous esper'ienceithat any; projas.t ', b
- g
~ g 209 stzusture:: san be-effective it~is1dizestadjhy.a lisensee who- .-1 m v. y .310 ~is' committed-tois stzong'gualityjassuranse program.. ~ ci 211 'In ourJjud'gment,falsuccessfulilisens'ee is.one'uhose ownl u o >c tit -j . technical;and quality assurance'stadir supplemented ~uhere-q 7 } P3 lnecessary by-codsultants,oz contzaotors,.can assess whether 0 i 4'l [
- 2' i *l qualitiy we'zk is!being'done at its fsoility. -Our regulations
.i: i 2'5. makerit-oleat?that tho' licensee is. responsible for C e- -m s ^ 10 ! ^; ,.C~
- 216 determining;that s' nuclear pover' plant is constzusted-and
_..I y 217 ' operated in' compliance'with all appropriate-stand'azdsJand: H .*l i M '214 , requirements '. - -1 oc. f 2219 You al'soiasked for' comments concerning.the proper ] ~ 3-w x .I ._organisational'stzusture=for assuring that guality,' assurance- - 1 220 a M 221 ;andiquality control' programs.aze enzzied out properly.. As g K 7222 salatadito-south Tawas,- thera are tuo aspects worth -noting; _ s t
- 222 yisste MRC1 regulations zequire?the licenses to insuze'that q
'fi c C m w ' ~ ,;224 -it's/gualityassurancaipeople have sufficient independence: /1 . u
- e m
m .s J215 isoaLe_est!'and. schedule s'ensiderations to do their' job. 7 M4' " ~ s .L G - %..., M;4 Q. '[ w$. ;W,, w' c;d. .i a
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- v w-
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- h. " ~
ns.W , _. W 2' 2' 6 7'- 'yb9 j wat ss outhiTexas, :ve.go' undith'atIgus11ty; control? inspectors m t g?. ^ a 'x ,W eay p,:-u:v% ~ 4,s. ~ u m- _ :.y. c n ? < e .,w. m. n ..,.,.~ .. ~, lhN $ w; ; }#888'[subfact;tofpzeductionfpres.sure,?lackjoilsupport.by; 887 vi: D " y ? ~ A 228 itheizieunimanagement '.hazassment,(intimidation;andithreats. t: ~c a. x m waw an n + 3^,, u..~,.- + g g. d ~y - p. a 1.~" "i:Secon4p ouzazegulatioar' alsOzequizeithat the tualityj ,.2 n--.: n ~ m :& MA - 0229 9 s,
- f g'
y; / y :S b. 7 C ' ~,; ; . f. ~ R *1830 lassuranoelozganisationizeportitoisufficientlyssenioz= = y a; - e s. p n ,,;_L .a ,.. ~ ~n .m g - W > J231 imanagement :uithin ' eaok ?o..,rganisation - involved fin ';tuality _ - m s 4- ~ .m. wJ232 4assuzanoeit'o"give<it?theffreedon[toiidentifylqualitys m- ~ ~ t
- w '..
a_m u 2< ~ l- 'W " 233 - programs?. to? initiate ~,j zeoon n'andc or c provide /s'olutions E and t.g o ~ . f wivazify'%hef.limplementatiou[of? solutions.z a l ' ' '.:.M 234 L ~. a:, ;_, - ^^ s 'p ;'- ' h-
- 235 F..,..
Jourlinspections atfsouth!Tenas.. indicated'lioensee~s_anior; j n 1 e .b W M 234 ; management lvas: insufficiently involved sin quality;a assurance / n '237 Castionstatttheisitelto.pr.ovida.the:gu.ality organization 'N 234 freedomifzo's influencesLdatzimental to itstiunctions. ~ ~ ~1- ~ . 239 'You~also; asked'foz2 comments concerning the. ability of' o -p.
- 140 nuclear power plant constructors'to-. attract
- qualifie2 i
o Lozaftsmeniandvany problems <that they might. face in'that YD t 1241 I d~ .f '242 'ze g ar d'.1 This zeallycit not:an area-for which~we have~ N ~ U 121 spesidis responsibilities, and is bestiaddressedLbyLthe J ,.7 b? 144 ;;oonstzustorsLthemselves, q 2 ?l Y g. tus ll. .1 1
- I:uilli assaniaside comment that in the revious that we j
/ y s -244 did,dit d'id appear tht tone _ of tthe problems. at south: Texas 1 247 b,uassan, finsufficiently high' pay 's'eale bein's : offered, and so 3 a [ h%
- 248 1thatbonce the people----like=uelders,ffor example----vere y
s R N ^ 7 Am m249 t,raine'd, they7immediatelylthen uent to other welding; jobs in .py i. -~ 11 wyo ~ 25'O uhichhhey vere nou t' ained _ fox,- buti they could set' a' highez M. ~ r ~ ,,6-. 3 . J. p, y:. .O n - y. M 've i w - $ f '. ~ - 1 x ~ L. i> 4 .'t (. ' [' - . g -4 (.j f-A%g r s 1 ' 7 [ [. - $ b.1 g 7, ,4 -). J 3__ .q 4 3if s r T.] e 4 .. (Q . -:ll 'e 'u. . v_. c -z.- ,' sj: w ' ' 'c.; ; -x; ); ',> f 7 1, n: y f yl-- d ~ [l OL . z.. , 3 -9 s g; s., y- [ ^l 4 D g.N
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- f. _._ _ (s i, l[.
4, , }3 ^ ' 1251: 1payv.1Andronefoi!tho' actions,LI'believe,, that tho'lisensee l 9 u. + - ~ ~ h.e,k" m[, y;5b has ~ M sM htzaise the; pay:ssale'they.are offering.for y-g Tthosefjob'sf.: m, f252 ,s -em ( 4 y ,.i'. 3-WQ: 4 254 ThurLstaff falso; expressed anJ.nterest int the.: impact that; ~ 'y - .,...c c, $P':. 255 :t.hefMRC" notion-plan,iresulting from our' assessment of the - sf 4 might have on.thefseuth" Texas ~ ? ~ t-- ~ 2+
- : 254 lThreexnile-Islandiscoident c OS-
~ .cs ,1557 {pzof aste That so-oslied :TMI: Aotion. pLut, ' formulatadias a w-
- p f
s d'L; ~ ^ 's254 (zesultsof.ithelTHI-2' accident fuss developed 49 provide:a' y r ~ .259 loonprehensiveTand:integratea plan:for the actions: judged ~ a m E k j "W (260 .nece's'sary by the.MRC staff 7to cozzest or ~ improve the' l m ,r
- regulation ^and operation 1of nuclear-facilities. based on the~
} (' !i .261 ["
- 2'62 c'expezianos from thi scoident'at THI-2 and the official
~ s ~. 1862 7 studies;and. investigations.of.the-aocident. h 1264 Most of th'ose specifio actions.are.dizacted.to operating _ %p
- plants,fso?there is'little immediate applicability of.those 9
~ E265
- c 266 items to South Texas.
WhereJany plant modifications are s cfoundztoibe;applionhle;to~ South Texas,(thess' modifications
- 267 c
4 268 Tandn.the'~ ~ schedules : for implementation < uill be. addres' sed ~ d ^ ~ y, during'.'titeLataff'sdrevieu cof the: applicat' ion' foz.an [ 2'69 ? p4 W. ., ~.. P '270
- operatint license.
M si J, ~ i x27,1 ' Th'ese Action plan items.which do involve'the construction ~~ t, 2 E +p ,,.s ) A_ L272 3processLhave'specifio: applicability to South' Texas.onlyito-T' Q.l ^ f,.. ~ * ~ k.7
- i
?.O fthsoutentithat,Juhen:Limplemented, theyivilleimprove1 " qn ,.;;a ; ~..... f ..,27AJsel'estea features (ofl the. licensee'~s guality assuzance &c c c. m ~ ~ s w _'i' ~# w e 22"5 factivities-~ortredizeot the NRC's-ounLinspectionLactivitiesb~ @/2; ' 1q, v' c'. c;-) Y. ,? ~ ^- , s g: l SJL
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j...t. 7 k.N.. P' 3 e ^I 3 ' i;?,g,J', - JNAngs?NIF267050' c .c ~ EpASE ~ 11 2' c _. s ;. .s s Ip. w 3 (276 a '?Z'ge en tollist a deu= ether 1tensaintthelyxapazed - M. ~ x' n. E277 ,, g:.;q. ..-y. v + Ltis,t'isonyiwhich 4 am? submitting which)refez'specifieally1to y y7,;Q W r (274 thagAstien pia,n'.. -m % t ..~./..,. E - +. 4 '* y a a.m s f -..., ~3' .'+- b- )/.~2 k . jG .,s c -A 7 ..h 4,C% That basically nI:,thinke summarises my(ansverscto tha." ',. ~, t179 1 r.4 ?240 Aue'stions.GI'uillibe gladEto;Faddressoanyzparticulas. 2 " ~ MQ n-+ . (.1isestionsi, tha t.s'uneoamittee Lhir, either c bef ore Mr. -stello = -241 w, I [,,. m. 1 '- i satt.;testifiestortaitems whatevez~yous pleasure.- <342
- IMaterialifollows.Ii n
1 ~ ~
- 344
- ~. ~ 's, g g,
- sassassass INSERT'*****88888~
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7 T i p. 4 ,K~ 'pAGE. 13 e f.Q:?.4f E. ,.m.. MANE si NZy34'.yse ::g 2 3;g -..g, m, :.. (_ .m. '.:244 ; A 2ME.JEskhardt. rMz W, chairman 6Ilsf.aze?my minority lseniez-g.w ,e-e -- - s 4 uw, ;'. ; n./; m.. ,.i247 6me'aberf s1vious.t aboutitheldesire ? to be. int a : position to back. v ',1 w Lout l: oft foreign Leili,He have la similanity.of' wieupoint, 'yj ?2'88 ~ ipezhaps, or:siAilizityyof situations throughout the~sountry, ,J
- f249 N.-
4 y ? J290 'thoughCit may;arise.in'somewhat different uays. a. .u y ~ Eyor instance,the mentions his~ area, the need foz other ~ [291 ~ q h? 1 292 ; energy source's-dize'etly.to supplant foreign oil which' ~ Largely supplies his_azes. I think.'that probably would he. 193 3 c - 194 the-caseLuith'Ms. Ha'zkey;o'd Massachusetts-uho is here with' 4 f~ 295 .us(this: morning., N .296 In1the Texas. situation, it is not;all that different, 197 because the cost of ooal~.tends to approach. through zailroad V 1894 rate oosts, the' equivalent-cost of foreign oil----STU value---- 'v~.1. +' 4f d /199 Land:'unless there is-some. competition, or-at-least potential s.. [ k 300 *loompetitionIfrom:theinuclear res'ourse, there may be no real E competitive: control;of: price, because, asfyou zooall,.in-301 '302 1978,juellpzovided in'the yuel Use bill that the generation- - :303 of islastricity by ' 199C, except in: peak loading cases-and. 304 ?vithEsome' minor-. exceptions,.would.have to forego the use'of '305 : gas. ;That~means.-pretty-largely in the immediate future, a ( 306 ?the'us's of'either' coal ~or nuclear. ^ 1 307
- S a 'i Z,q t o o, anivery,,very.concezned about knouing-the facts m
l g ,304 -about nuolear-energy.:Also' attempting to reduce' mistakes ~ 309 wh'ich 'c an ?b'e : very.~oost17
- Zsunderstandithat cost ovazzuns'
'k 131'O
- havezzuncatlan'enormousaratio'in some of these plants, and.
~ m 4 --y)*,,~_-~ 6 1 e i yr L s: Mr ; -QPm ' 1 .. ;g, ; -h / j xg. , D,. l1 >Q W v ?Y::X':
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- Ja ' 4. g $1 M. thejazample -'that jue -havf..in: south { Texas may be -a rgood one.1 x
.w
- p
, ; f,. ") e, y y. - s .iX4, don'.t:neanihazeito{in'any;vay1go'in.itoo' deeply into the [a :_ ;m ?. ^3its, x i 4, g .R
- 313,finaliquestion ofyguilt;oztinnocense,;but xathez,to.look;at,
~ M t .s 1
- 314 Ethis. as;,,anj example?ofi the' ' situation
- whish. mayf existiin ; othez~ ~
1 3 q;g -
- v
~ L A%_ N315 $1aceslin -thescountzy. ; ' Against ' that backszound ny: questions: %p" - - 4314 Tui111heSasked. s s. a Zlhnowothat you.haveJaxperiencelze'specting many nuclear
- 317 w
1314 i cons tzus ters ': and i nany ? 1ise nsee s.g % understandsthat-these is -319 ~ one Eth'ing?th'at sity be somewhan t ausus1 about the : South Texas = dstuation'and that is,Eas.I' understand, the:-licensee isi-for-i ~ ~ 3320 .w 21 =the first time, Ifbelieve, moving.into the nuclear field in m.. .322 'constzusting;arylant of-that nature. Is that corr,ect? c l323 Mr. c Ahe'azna. lit is oorzeot. -This is the first n'cleaz-u e V324~ Lylant for that company. That doesn't make-it completely-3325 *! unique. :.There Laze' obviously othezioonpanies. doing that. sj d R -326 Mr.1Eckhazit. Obviously so. But you :also mentioned' that. . o M, Q 7327.oneTod::the.yezy, desirable situations is.one in which the' H ~ ~ -324 .lisensee isiitself~e'xperienced and able to conduct quality s
- 3,
~ W 329 contro1R <That,.offo_ourse, would come with'having had some- -l < 3: ~ 1.330 ' experience _ with nuclear plants'or_having derived it from a' H h T ~ ~ ^ +f~ c 3 3_1 duir;studyf oi other; nuoluaz -plants before commenoing. sn-e s M,., -332 ; operation, ; I; assume'.' y p4, n, Mr. Ahearne.;Thatis correct. t w ~ ~. '
- 333 z
' Q'?
- Then'there-are savazal ways that these
- fobs
? Mr.;Eckhardt. -334
- i.,N
_s I [',, 335 Lasko$ din'azik. done. J0ne of the Jtypical usys, as iI' ' rp. ' g, S
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- 3,34 ~ Lunderstand.'it :fzoa youz, testimony and what Z.have found from-n u.
3 37 :other souzoes,5-1's.to! doi-the job very auchIas one~vould do ~~ p.; 334 5 anyh ether.'large :' cons truction? j ob s the-building oi1an <339 (esponsive~.zeeidenoa. the' building of.a?oomaezeial building. "163 .That:is,sto-haveLsidifferent contzaotor from the>azohitect~.
- 3'41 ;
~ Thalazohiteeti~in anDordinary azahitectural contracting ~ p - 3436usituationLiz'the-person uho sees to it that specifications The 'ontzaotor and the azahitect are somewhat pf, 343
- azeifo11'oued._
c I 344 lintconflict, orlat least they may not be rolled-into tho' ~ 345 -sama' person if quality control inspection 1isjto be done-s.. .346 prope rly.- Yet I understand that in this case, the 347 'architest/ engineer and the contxtetax are the same, that.is, 348 Ezoun and Root'.- 349 'Mr.:Ahearna. That is oorzeot. M r ~.. C h a i r m a n. That does-ci 3 350 *Loffer more potentia 1Jfor..a problem,.particularly-when'you do-0 351
- have. as:youtuantioned' earlier, a company that is= going'into' 353
.this~for the first time. '353
- (As I tried to' cover in ay' testimony, when we looked at the r
r-l 354 ' variety-of ways plants <have been built, we find-that.there l aa 355 are(some thatfdo"it'the same way that Houston-is doing it. - _356 Thereiare some, primarily~the larger. nuclear organizations--- g. l 35'1
- TVA sad. Duke.pouez----that1uill'do all three,.but those are by.
i.: L 1354 -nou've11! experienced companies that are very familiar with x Ethe---- 359 t- " q'
- Mr.J ckhardt.
lie'11,:I would.-assume that that option'would 360 E L +G i ~ k ,y- ,r ~ ,y p, T s' .,1 w: g-i 1,
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Y' 1. _N>.1 e .:PAGE- .'16 - .b r.NAMEriNIy347050: g s b ;~ [ l3614Ibe as?3oed as any'.ethez.if1theflicensse weze sufiicisntly - ~ 2 U vfN " 134'S fenpezionced5ibecause thinilisenseelsLinterest's?.are one, to1 ~ ~ i 2363 i bhild I a f plant j okeaply, : but ' tuo', so. be : assu' red that the plant' ~ ?364 iis: a lgoed plant 3h'at' vill lastand withstand [ dangers, and'~ it- ~ ~ ~ e.v, f345 'isultimat'alyfthe omnes-of the-plant'and therefore its 346 ' interest:is very much'like'the. owner.of a residence, that-s r 1367 the; residence should be, built ~propezly. u ~ ~ - 368 - Novavez, it would seau totas that;in'a situation'uhere. 7 '349 .there is presently.little expezienee' n-the'nuelaar-field, ~ i .J 1 3 '.,1 as ir.Lthe.cassiof'Neuston lighting and power,!that'perhaps t '?1,; the othersapproach, thatIis, the:use of nn: absolutely-1 ~ u -l- ^ 3731iindependent engineering / architectural. firm uith.expezience 1 -l if:. 1 ~ 373 -in thez field might:ue11.he call'ad for to:s greater extent -374 Jthan'it:uould be called for'in the TVA~ type situation. Would j j i 375
- you.say that'istgenerally correct?
- j 376 Mr.
- -Ahearna.
That would,'in general, he.my feeling', Mr. L v 377 Chairman. .s-p . 378 When'I had' discussions-uith the staff back in tho'sumasz- [{ '379 on-that specifio question, they could recall examples which ..380 would indicate 4that.a utility. going ior the-first time into [ L341 a'constzustion could successfully----very successfully----handl o ' t by.having the same company do both. It requires a much i p- ~ c343 3343 greater;attent' ion-on the part of that. licensee going into {3 ~ '384 its:zeoognition of the-complexities of nuclear power plant 1345 .o'onstzustions-a villingness-to get a level of staffing that
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2*. t ,l~. s ~ i[ r,-'s ._-y,. ..s -++-. OY' e '?]., 3:.5 5 k,. y, y >g. 7fc ,-,y- /h M$ / M #%[ y j 't A -'NAMEb N17867050L, FASE' 17J ' + "l ~ a. [ \\MW uM -13.4421they/;nightinet: othezuisp de si a-willingnessL t.o :very 'n - - , - ~. 347 .egszessivelf follou?the: quality 7 assurance-sida of the n..~ ~ ~ 7 344 'pzogram!-LAndfthat-uns'not present?in this particulam.: case.. rA X 1349 I 'Fz UEskhazet 'Nov there would be'another; type off } 390 situation,la$d:that is onefuhere the'lioensee:might.not be s.- r ~ 7 391 . experienced,;butla'sonstzustion; company; night--have: )393 lievelopsid,fover a longLyeriod'of.experiensei.the abilityjof ~ * .393 sepazating.its.'engineezing andiarchitectuzal' functions from: l394 "its'oonstzustion functionfin'nue13az plant,constzustion. ' o ' i 393 That',JI guess,--is sonetime the situation'with respect to E 396 the building 'of nuolear -p1'ats. in the United States. Would -397 lthat be tzue? ^ 394 Mr. Ahearne.- Yes. i. 199 'Mr. Eckhardt. Does Brown and' Root fall'in that category?_ !'i l Mr. Ahearne. I'dontt believe-so. As I' recall - and:I'll p r-201 askIMr. stello to verify----Brown and Root had not had much, ~ r l .4G21:if any. experience prior to going into this. I think they-4 403 aza-buildir.gfonaiother power plant. [ 404 MF,. Eckhardt. And their experience would be purely in the f: 405 constzustion side, on at least heavily in the construction ~ .406 side..irathez~than in'the engineering and amohitectural side, ~ 407 . asiI understand it.- 1the-azahh. test /engineeringofnon-nuclear 408 Mr. Aha'azne. 0:
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409 power plants.. p- -J410 zMr. Eckhardt. -That's zight. Andofcourse,evenif'pezej-r .} . t,. s ,? l-yx 3 r, w_ . ;c r y e r 4 - l ^6 - ~,,, -. _. =
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- it wouldcalso requiza.the' development of1a rather.
S) P~ 412 s. ~ s s-4. r a ,413 sophistioatedLsepazationiof inspection:functionsiand'of. 'V~ I414 ?supervis' ion at)s'relativelyfhigh level-on both. sides.of the- ~ ~ 415 operations,.as.'I understand it, to1accomplisk a desizable l m -41'6 fobjective. /. . l
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-417 Mr. s: Ahe arne.. That?s oorzeot. ~ 414 - Mr. s Eckhardt. - I am generally f amiliar uithl that area"and1 n 419
- I1know that these is probably as good;a pool of highly 4
420 ' trained azaftsmen zelated'to'large industrial freilities as 5. 421 there:is anywhere.else in the United: States,5because,'of '422 -course, the'.Mouston area is the heart:of the* petrochemical'
- 23 O
V . industzy and. the biggest concentration of it in tho' United-f ~ 414 iStates and-perhaps in the world. ~ ~ y
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~ 425 Seconf to that,'there-is a very large similar complex.~1n g Therafore, this is not~the-m" 426 the Beaumont-port Azthur area.~
- 427
-development of an~ industrial plant in a. vacuum of qualified ~ 424 . labor. na I cozzeot in that assumption oz am I leaning too 1429.auch:in.favo 'of my own area? 41J Hz. Ahearna.- let'me-defer to Mr. Stallo-for that, if I ^ ..=e e g ~ ~.&31i.could. -p p 412L Mr.~Stello.- I think these is:a large pool of' trained 433 Joraftemen in that area. As you are'ausza, tha-location of p- .434 the' plant is.someuh.at removed and they have to attzaot, y, '435 then, those trained people to the azem of the plant. InL i ,q g .~ .l n .i w g- ~, ') y y - h.1 d!: ..m-t j p. <1 n V. ~" ~ i b', $y aY ' u a-hp ~ ) ^/.,,. ki g sli" %y.~.. ~. - - ,f 7,. m s
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f s ~ M, 437 fa,tzaining; program to' bring,in~. unskilled labot to'do that.- ).Onebazaa where we 'saufthat problem was in velding and;it-34 r ~ b, l439 was: oo'zzeotable. ' obviously'[ by making - the salaxy atructure - a. u:. ?oompetitivalwith:the' competition'forEthis same kind of
- 440 l
--w= 441 Ltalent in the petrochemical areas in Houston and other parts [ f442 'of Texas. ~~443 Mr. Eckhardt. Just/to get'the pictureLstraight haze, 444 geographically, we are talking.about a distance, say, from j 445 the, Beaumont-post ~Azthus area----of. course, the Houst. area r [ 446 is.~somewhere in between, but a distance of from.there to the ~ 447. South Texas nuolear' facility, roughly the distance from 3: 944 Washington..D.-C., to Mau York. Is.-that not oorzest? "449 Ms. Stallo'. That's my_zoooll.ootions yes, six. 4 450 Mr.,Eckhardt. Then Houston'would be somewhere in y n -451 betueen,' but-still.a considerable distance from the' plant. 452 And ue'havecin that' area a rather mobile exaft force for M%
- 453 -this! type work, but'it may be somewhat difficult to marshal c
'454 -them at: any particular place unless there is some way to 555 . con' tact the exaftsuen, as I understand the situation. p 456 Mr. Stallo.. Well, the. point I uns trying to make is that ~ 457 'ii;you-aza'trying to attract-those. trained exaftsmen fron-1958 .that a-aa to' move them into the~ staa of the plant, you need 459.to_.dofthat>u?.th a competitive salaxy scale., They clearly .> m .aze not going to make that move.for less money'than the- .g l 4 *. 0 3 u Os C g. ? j".. < 0, h( ' ~ 3y ~ r.
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NAME: RZy[67050-T -pASE l20: Q;3,,o y j 441 ' selaziesJthat.were-being paid in the Bay-City l esse :of Texas, 1 g .g LW.;> .463 sad'in the welding eraa it'was;somewhat'lovez. h-L ,e ~ :463 .Nr. Eckhardt.. Mou auch louez?' . 464 Mr. Late 11o. 'I don't soon11'the numbers.
- 445
' Mr..' Rokhard t. I undesstand'about:st.45-manhour. Does. '464 ithet sound. like~ the ballpark? .467 Nn. Stallo. 'Mr.-Seyfixt-indicates'that's within the 1 464 frange.
- 469
.They' vere then trying, to train pe'op le fzou uithin the Lazea ~ -l 470 'thatwerevillingto'moveandgo;pate'theveldingarea. '471 They would tzain.them..and then they sould, after being. ~ 472 .tzained, move out and become. mobile to other-jobs at; higher-. 473 salazy. lAnd thativas a problem.- rc 474 -Me'ze.' talking-at the moment strictly of the ualders and-s 475
- that's pretty uall uheze -the area that us saw this problem s476 Westoonizonting---- to welding.
~ ~ ~ ~ )c' s477 There area lot of other oraftsman zaguired for the. I 474 building of'a-project'-of'this: size, and ve haven't sann or 479 hadJanyJindication that'we had y oblems in these othen 7-(480 areas.- Melding, because of the need for ualders-in the a w 481 yetzochemical-industry, vas where ve saw the yzoblem. Me a 1483 haven't seen.it in.othez erafts. It was the one area L. .443
- isolated that ve had 1,dentified the Problem.
484 I as trying.to.put that so.that it's in. context in'whatsue U^ 1 445 1have : sun. ^. v u 0- }-h,., U z,, t Es I" YM + s f h.'... 1 l Y. lM;iQ. ' ~ 1hb @ :: ~ h YY. : l- ...... lif-Q, - ,g. pyw;.g.p_.+., j;- gyg;;;,,. g , w .-Me 1 p : Pug f.e ~e ig, g
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.444' J' Ms.lEskhardi,1Mr.,Ste110' miso has a statement.- If othez. .s ss w c ~om,.," .(.447 s .t . t " members,of the sommittee want'telask-'nou, ozDif they want-to g u,- '444 -I shall'notJoommence-A defez, t eithez -'vey. uill"be : all zight.- .u ./.. L y -449 by~asking"Mr.nStello until..after the-atatement.(What is your g O e w' s490 l'preferense?L {; _Mr. tent.( I have a deu-kuestions. ~(
- 491 i
' 2 X ~492 .Mr. Eekhardt'. Suza.,1yc.!Go right ahead. 7 E. 1492 -Mr. Lentt :If th Chairmen pleasa, I-do havec a-feu '494 . questions 7 fez Chatizman ! Ahearne. 495 Mr~. Chairman,:it'now takes----as.I' understand it----about 496 eightito' ten.'. yea'rs'xaverage to get afnuclear pouer plant c 4 -497 into commercial operation, and often this proca'ss is marked k 498 by delays and-increased--costs-in the constzustioniprocess +i e R u i 499 that'in turn,are. passed along ultimately and absorbed by tha 500 consumers". s 501 It. seems. to -as that: this delay is a luxury that this 502 Nation san-no longer afford, either from an economic ~ standpoint oz fros'a' national security standpoint. 503 7 504 .I would like to ask'~you if you isel this time frame-is too 505 L lorig. 506 Mr.:Ahearne. JLet'ae, if I may, Mz. Lent, answer.by making h -507 aloouple; of points :and then ' address that specifically. ~ 504 IA theidelay'isfoaused-foz reasons that donit relate to..y PO, x 509 'the. fundamental process of tryin1'tolgetLa plant' licenses, tg R;* 1510 then.I uculd agree.that.it's aLluxury ua can't afford. Many E* 3
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S M thsseiproble'as... D %:q.L , ' %W + k - 515 ^ 1 These'tM d't&hC yrobleas', forfexample, uith the design"of i p.q, -~ '. Those aza;' .x 1516 Jthe-plant to meet.. seismic 3ualifientions , s problems;uhish usu14 have t'oibe resolved prior to-the ilant d 317 .\\ F ~5;8 $being -lioe'nsed toc operate, or onca tfoundl, if the plant weze, A x,' j ^ - ' 'l 519 operating,'tho' plant would :have to' be shut down.to have then ll s 1 s >. 520 ;be: zesolved' b'esause they ~aze proble.as that have '.to be b .521 zesolved-southat us can at say----NRC can say----.'that'the-522 ~adeguate' protection of.public health and safety is met. f 523 A second-area of problems arises in'.trying'to make sure 524 that'the administrative procedures ~that are. appropriate tej ~ l 525 ' allowlpeople to have a fair say at zesolving concernscthey; 'q 3
- 526 have-get completely aired.
There-have been cases uhere. r: 527 'sourts have eventually throun back.because issues wezen'tc o 524 ~ sompletely' aired in the early stages. 4 .l. y m 2529 Iithink'thatNue'are nou in a process of trying to have w '; [ l-
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530 'more..somplete airing.early to avoid that part of the 4 1 531 -pdoblem. i^ _' -'532
- 3o-I guess when you.say.do I agree that ue should try toz 1 /
t i kz -533 .'out delay that is not needed I would certainly agree. EThe .534 tazgument~and:the debate that people involved in.the: nuclear v, e ~535 lisensing processing always have is-to try to define what 1 4 -g: ')! [t 4 ( Sg.,- p ~.,[, g ~{ s f, 'f s %~~' t s x; f' ' if* z :, ,.p ; ~ p.. 4 A= }' hY E H . _.;.,_,. _, _15 z - . m s _m.__.-?A.__._.s, g_ s
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a ,,y -f(56) (ase the delays that are,appsopriate.-and what are the delays g% ;., s y:. 1 f557
- that are{ inappropriate..
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-Vi 554 , The ifact that ?it takes eight to ten yesas te set a large "j ~' Q- - 1 ?V '=559 "nueles Spenez plant operating perhaps may be one er tue '(', } ~ M ' J ~ 540' years G,a11eas, but just to physically build a peser-plant, e' 4-5.000,uezk-as on the site, a hillion dellass=ef investment-J, u 1841 j s = f fet lpoing into all of the equipment and the seastruction lakes, -143f that's a time-sensuming prosess. j i 1_ 1 ,m J 154':! ' ~Me've seen azeund the world a number ei sountries uke
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l o ) U', -545 eziginally have thought that they have licensing prosesses j Ik 544 -much shester than euza.' saadually, their processes are '= W ~ } o.< -597 setting to roughly the same kind of length that we have. s I 544 se sextainly I wouldn't say that the lisensing process is W ~ ", ' ~ -c .. the. nest efficient er as efficient as it should.he. It -549 .; ~ 550,'isn't. It is, like most mechanisms, still creaking and us .are.. ry ng to adjust its us are trying to improve it. But I t i e 551 a MMW 553 -dor.'.t':think it.is pressly ineffielent. y 55'1 Mz'.-Lent. Well, just.to_.se back,a sement. You say that s - NC m4 554 ~ problems.arise in lesation and/or design. Isn'tsthe uo / f$ /' N\\ d " *g .lesation of the: plant and the design ed the plant----azen't , l.555 N y j ~ .' O ' ~ m s /J556 - these:. threshold questions that'are leeked at at ' the time the s
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, = -e g y }-f - 5? ~ W 4, 557 initial"appliestion:for-sonstzustion is filed with the NRC ( M, O g*g;+n a " - LMr. Ahearna. Mell,~ier example, en location, there is a ';554 e p...w w. %C, y( s ) 4 E., ,!559 ?particular.Lyeuer plant 1that semes to mind in the West where,- s [ge[gh;i -p ?560 <aiterCthe'plantiunsfaubstantially built,'it turned out that [ u.g - s %e: OR :j ,{' . ?,. f.g '.[. o %_} [:- .9,{' .2 ge. - y.W i 4 i.jl;. y;N ' l~ 1 f y'i';W. ,1 ~ Wlrh .l M UdhNI'MQ 2[(( r ^ ['i g. SQ.'.t .'f Nr.[1 ~, ? ') Whm, hh a %m:~f -
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Set thaze ' was a fault---easthquake Asuit---- substsatially eleser Set to the plant them the geological survey had exiginally-Y.545 dound, se that is a essa ei a situation.wheze---- ~ ^ - o Nell+,Ithat'sifalzly zaze, 'an't it?' j
- ~
m , ~ _ S44 -:Nr.~1ent.: 1 2.. if SGS Mr. Aheazmec Yes. "That.is rare,ihut large delays occur 8 u .544 dairly: arely. When you take the average ever nucleaz pouez i 547 plant 11 tensing times, h lear delay time average usually y e =d .544 somes aheut from tue'er threeor four-instances, and that's. J. 'l 549 -ene ei the esemples. -G '= ===
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578 la~ Jar as the design, in general'euz.esitaria allou 4 = 571 'eewtzustien -te= he herum when the genezel eziteria have been:. ] }. E72 agreed te, but there are still a number of items that have-i e 273 { 8:e he sempleted----designs have to be completed----prior -te the F 57 '; ' plant actually being fully seastzusted.m That's one.of 'the + '575 *zeasons why we~have a tve-step licensing process.: n . What is the.leart achievable time isone, in. H ( 576 Mr. Lent. U~_- 577 yeux opinion? That-is, hou long should it really take. ~ 578 ideally speaking,. to get-a p1' ant on line?- Can we look at _sw -w a-b .See -seem t( put these plaats in. operation auch.aoze rapidly than L m 9-541 we:de in.the States? f+ L Nr. - Ahearne. : Well, we saa oestainly look at the experience '545 -543 .in'the European eeuntries. "I think ue have to. consider.at j 544 least :tue. things)uhan~ we. look -at Europeanlx3erf.anos. x ' ====m ~ 7:h, y -.iyizat',/de'we eeunt the. time the-same way? In our case, ve> u, l S 545 mf+ -'e-Y, W q 3 n s
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Q ;;a, ~..l C. l:-,: AN ~% E x-- X 'T ~ 'M + s u. t ,x g- : * 's, j. ._ c j - n n. W, [Wb cgangs~NIy347054' pASE' [55 i iv - + 4 's -544~ihees-a systea where;the, utility begins to.de-its planning 9 547 : aad: sees thaeuyh a length'y. precess heisse ~it makes its 9 p; .~ n-IA4 ' decision on whd 'aiad - of a -design to - use,1 where to leeste - 'I "3% -m s '549 ithe plant. + Y .L. ~4i Isaseme.ef~the European eeuntries, it's a dedesal
- 59e
'e ~. gevezament decision of what. type of. plant:is' going to he '59'1 ~ 592 !huilt' add where the plant is going *to be located. They 593 -don't_have'part_of that time in which'a utility is-going 1 594 through its decision-making process. 595 As.faz as the actual sonstaustion time-for'the' plant I' 596 don't think there is that significant a difference. I would i. a period of time of zoughly. 597 guess that'for a 1,000-NW plant, q ' ~eight years is a reasonable time -to be aining at as _.the. mosbd M -594 ~ - $99 efficient----no problems in the system. e. ~ . _ =. + 'k's 411 have to zeoosnise th't Thzee Mile-Island.and Os-600 a o [. 601 after-affect have led-us at the NRC----have led many people. (93
- including industry----to rethink a lot of the approaches that
~ 403){-havaheentakaninth'apast.andrightatthemoment,-that-j i ~ Go d is going'to be very definitily a'eausa der a longez-g s. 605 lisensing-time, because there are so many, things being a 606 frathought. y m -_7 -_ - ; ,.4 ' -607 'Mr. lent. I mentioned in.my opening.statament the ^ .i '604 roonomie Regulatory' Administration's.omlaulations concerning ^ I k, -609 ,the f 40, nuclear plants scheduled :to come on line; by : 1983'.: C 610
- AzeLyou',7Mr. Chairman.-optimistic that these plants can.beim 2
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t g; g y, ~,, .f a 4. KNAMEsiNIF267050 - -pASE .16' H o ' ~ t -x s d m% 4.111, granted?eperating lieeases byLyeur consission.uithin-th'ati .9 Gil [ time 'inasef' ~ g .r. ' Mr. -' Ahearne. : I haven't seen the zesent fosecast of.the 413 n W. s 614 ;Esenemie eRegulatory Administration plant-specifie so I d, ; j' 415 'eaa't speak?te whether we usu14 tend to arzee'with these p-i J Gle spesifie '. plants. - a (; I san say that I'an'seniident that as tha-91 ants.sene to. 617 .y p i .414 us.:and sue zaady fez opezating 11eense, if 'they have met the 1 4 F f .419 requirements, then we will lisense them. He have so' 620 ' demonstrated in the eases of the plants ^that ua'have alzaady-1 e, 621 addressed this~summez.. !L y '422 .I tesognise that that doesn't really ansuez your question ~ 623 because there aza1several--ssts ei-zequirements.that some y ~ 424 plants may not-be able to meet as zaadily as other plants. w a a 'I Emergency planning for example. The requiremen.t that there 425 L 624 g be adequate' emergency plans developed in the are's of the 4,; . 627 plant. h i o ,/ 1 ^ eC 628 Mr. Lent. Nell. I hear the soaplaint---.and you tell me i 33 s... _ 429 'it's true er~ false----that many of your keyxMRC personnel uho + 630 were'in'volved inLthe lisensing prosass at various. Plants 431 = ha re been ' ta, en off tho doh because of TMI. They've all f .S " ^ 432 been"eensentzsting.en responding to the newspapers and all ~ 633.'oditheJether ze' pests that had to be made following TMI and .fs' - 4 3 *. uthat,nas a mattez of fast.,this hss added inealculably_to 635 theidelip. 3 e > > t .Ly ~ ^!!;~ 7_ a n.~ fC e r ~ YT & Y lu '. - s .. wsn%:a_,._ 2-2, hl.Q. '7 ?,I : kb%f \\ N. ff. L,_; e_ ~ .. '.c&...p'm,. .m_ prn ! m, :: ~m ~<.2_- . f..- resw.:g 3,%gg < = =: . a.6-wp. .r... ~
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- -439 I,the.lisensing.zevieu' division,.the Muelear Remotor-
-t g ~ y .~ -440 inerulation pivision,cand:tunnithemits: reviewing first,suhat. -? ~ ~ .$41 can ve'1easa isonthe Thzes: Mile Island scoident? - And.~then, ' ]' /: second,-heu to applylthose: lessons to(the plants-than-442 1 l' i .443 operating.. i ~ l 644 Z ; believed, ' the - Commi~ssionL: believed. - and I' s till - believe1 645 that those' vere the. appropriate first-priority tus" items to' H n 446 tuza'ouz resouzoes to. We'had:to make'suza, as best'as ue 'H 647 could, uhat lessone could11 earn from tha Three Mile 1 J since ue'have zeughly'68 plants 644 Island sooideth and the'n, =,u that was the.next priority .to make d 449 'actually~ operating, ^450 sure that those lessons were applied to those operating y 651 -plants. y ~ -est 'Itaving done Lthat, 'then the next item or set of ' priority of 653 'those people has been the plants'in the-operating.
- q o
454 - application gueue, those plants who.aza in-the' process-of ] 9 655 eithez~ having' filed for operating licenses--oz about to file .Ry fi > 656 . for' operating licenses, land me did-put-our peopic mack. ~ 1
- 457
'They...hegan going hack to those-early this spring..and I j, ~ c '654 'think now therelaze no' plants:that are^in.the operating y 659.lioense line.that;have a lack of'offort being applied'to I '660 hham o --g : ,l -? Y 3, .J O ^ s.:. 4 s A 1 3 x
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a we W [461 i 'Infiesti-as!Z..ress),11..uith theiressibility of ena= example ; ~ p j g y~ ~ ~ everjat:1 east ~the-pezied:ei time ften the'aiddleLei----ez, [., u - - (463 y [ (66's Teazly5Mazeh----thaeugh:the"andlei next1yeaz, I don't:think ' f. x ^ y u,. J664 - these.is:any plantfwhere.it is ssheduled3to.be' finished-and. g s N. 6 x ~
- 468 [seadyldenzduel' loading uheze _ st least euz-staff zevious s
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- .464 quen't h.e've,been done in: time tocaset.those: dates.-
w m TMhathes os net it vill get' the license ati that stage.-is ~467 c .See 'reallyfup-to, in m'any.sases. con'ta'stad heniings:and hou-the' ~ T 469 Ihearing besse sones outI 7 Y ~ 470 .Mr., tent.;Thank you.;.ThankJyou6 Mr.-Chairman. g, - s 671 Mr. Eckhardt.LI shall tecognize Mr.1Markey and:Mr. r ~ '472. Cozoozan:next1uhatherior not'we go firs't u'ith Mr. Stallo',. ~ ~ s 1 '4'*'^? g M ~' 473 but you may'ehoose what you want..to do.- 674 Mr. Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chaimaan., I thinkLthis.is: 675 '-probably as good an.~ opportunity,:be'eause:I think.Mr. a Corooran and'I are both' familiar ~uith Mr. Stallo'and the 674 677 work that he's been-doing in-the. aftermath'o'i'Three': Mile-U 7 674 . Island'and.have a great deal of familiarity with him.- o " D. - 679 - 1 uant to thank you, Mr.. Chairman, for holding.this n :n thearing,.because' I'think it's an,.important one because it - 680 i '481.gives us the opportunity tol:look at.an. area that is really a > f642 .niezesesa of-all'the; difficulties.with tha Nucleat O ~ ~ w p ~ ' [ !443 fRegulatory C'ommission,.uith;the utilities.uith the 3 Q, k, i444 azokites'tural and : engineering : fixes, with the 'whole mass.of ~ 645 ' nuclear peuer in this oountry,and the vay in'which it has ' t; ~ 'l. 4 1
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afC ~, a;; -s p. "g , ~c_ e-1 s 2.446 < been constzusted.; P i n'. o >,e q rt.;"- G 647 The 'hasi~o ? issue " before.~usdis whether ouzinuolear'vatehdog,
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~w i .7 m, r. m $44 .the~. MueleazS tefulatoxy} Commission.1 is.floingiits job, and j s a- .,-.6 '649 :whether the{systenithat's des 1gned<to guarantes safe-V j ws=. 1 890 feenstzustion;ofinu_olear pouez plants aotually.uosks.. p 33 ..a, p,1. f.. 491 Thezelhave-been Ja :long,sariesi of: disturbing;. allegations. m 1 .Yi l i a 692 Jab ~outLthe' safety of.theHoenstzustion..of.the South: Texas. u m .-:e y,,. o + + e. ..693 . projects. safety standards being somyzonised,-' quality H .4 .m a- ^l 694 .oontrol:inspeetors intimidated'and" threatened vith violence;~ -695 the.Mueleaz Regulatory Commissionflooking[the other.vay.. 'l c., ~ D ( -496 I believe.that we are0diseassing here today<an?indiotmenf J .t: 697 of the entireLsystem.that the;NRC operatest to ensure-'its-e 698 - safety.st'andardsTaze obeyed. We.are'disodssing today.the - 0 ~ [ .699 south Towas-projaot one. nuclear pouer. Plant.:.But what ue + 700 say applies to'all~64 in opezation and'91 undet .j l o - 701 constzustion. -This may be the tip of:-a tragic story as ~ 701 these ' plants.go into operation: with '.taknown daficiencies f and. ~ ~ ' ' ~ l^. - 703 .defoots. 1:-
- Let_'ae,ask.you this, Mr. Chairman. -You'say on page.5Lof t
704 %~, -yout.'testimonpi The MAC.is:sonoezned that.; problems similar..- 705
- O
.x t'o:those Mt south > Texas may-exist;at some'other(plant un'dez.- 'C' 106 + A. _~707 constzustson and is reviewing. hou to ' apply-the:.' lessons-o. 7. L~ .704 ilafazned.'.? ': ar 4 l ,f 4 V j "E -709 Whatlother' construction.sitesTare"you looking'Iat? 4 _'? ~ ,< - ^ - L,,., 710 ? Mr.- Ahearna. Mr.J5tello,- would.you careSto; ansuez that?J
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s,.. g .-{ ( ,,1 Stallo.' What selintend(to:dge,rbased.on $ hat ve{have!. i e_ '[ 'f H A.
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- 718 sle.az.;,ed Sizoa looking(at1the
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~ v. 7 ;.,, ~.. n, n_.g E ..~ ,., w. 1713 6 sheu14' hesitcte.to: adddthat Marble '~ Mill prof esti-:is. an ; . ;d ~;3,~, ' a . m- ~, ~. ..w
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-4 0 17 ' t iindication ethat' ouz; ouzzen't4 inspection process,. although it : - 7,, z. y~;_ ca y .... y., 1715 ) cd.oes idesitif y7 pueblems,f it ? does iso p s1'ouly..and.as.;you willi ? 'MB . t. ... s.. 4 W4 y c716 '.look1st tha'tesond:en theLsouth Texasfproject,eit does g r 9 ~ tindeed" pol back,'ysavezaltyears u t 1717 a m t' 1 u J di ,.714 .Thati,te tis s aLinustration 'as to' why' nou. - when ue:look i i ./>. q ~ 1719 backe.nwe.o01414,not identify the hinds;of problems;that we lFh c a +. ^4 :' ^720 ' have Thad---' indications existed Tseveral. years ago----earlies. - 721 In" light 5efthat: knowledge'andunderstanding,.wefze j 2 w t a' 722 looking'at'the usy..in.which we are:doing out zoutine'. i 3 - 723 -inspections,'uhich issto send.a particular inspector-out., g .724 (with 'a particulain ' area of expertise. and have him y ~ 1 t ...725 l individually:looks at that particular area.- p.. -r 726 LNe'provides'a? report indicating. problems, if any, that-he. p 727 chastfound in'that specifie,J 11mited' area of expertise. ..v. 'JL ~ u" 724.
- In contrast,'in south Texas', uhat' allowed us to-dzau tho' N
w un - 1729 1o'onolus' ons.as tof uhezeiitEvas iin the process that :the i r730 Aus1'ity: assuranseprzogsaa.' un's.netidoing1the 1ob it nee'ded :t'o - ~ e,7 ~ c
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~.. ~. 1 741 ':eentheDactivitiesc The. neohanical-voskivas-undezr,ey, the< og >m _s q'_. 1743 cstruJtural workVE the' uelding: and; the installaition.of' piping- ,N t
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- 7.43 an.1 eleotziovlisystems, so a. comprehensive' look at ' quality 1
a 4 = ^ .H 744 uns possible.
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When us didTthat,fue 'found that'the'r's veza,.'iddeed. - b, .o I P . 746 -problass'.in #.no quality assurance' ar;sa. But what've'also' ~- -l'- 'j 1747.ve ze' abic.to? conclude in-the case of South Texas:is thatz ~ hile. we srw th' ose :' pro'ble' 'ms, we :did not see' that the actual.. \\ s ',a -:.744 u a ?tt -components--"-theJstzustures and the systaas that were;there--- I / 750 were beinglsonstzustedlin such.a way' that us had mador J m 751 safety. problems. i .752 I;saveloneSazes that I[ intend to cover in my prepared ~ - 153 zonarks.. '6
- In' contrast, kin flashle Hill,-~ue did, in fact, see-the 754 J"+
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- 755 'actualistructuras that-ueza being installed installed.-in 736 . c .suok;aXuay?uhere',us hadtsafety' concerns.being::aised. And 2 d g %v, + N E. i in'that easeX ue lite' rally-shut'doun'the constzustion job in' 2 r m 757 '.~ ' 4
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I f P J E754 TAugust!of last$ year,fandfit:has> essentially remainediso. s j .~4,c, 8 / g ,..i $..". f S 175"9 itoday ,c .w ',f j N_ ,..j, I'.,- g
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- 3 9 1764 ch,aseLlook.at'fsoilities,Duasarelsoing to~.do that-in?the<neas-
. m m .a m j .a o w 'iutuiefon'a,ta.ial. basis. ? We'l1~ be i amating, ~ in' iact,.'this' 747 6, ^ ?
- z.
- 7'68
~ week uiti thejzepresentativesiod the managinent systes' y >769, responsible)fozioenst'ruction within all.our field offices---[ 4 o e,'
- 770 'insfast,l.this? afternoon----to discuss a progras.to putithat'onT aitzia'l?*aasis to see if' we san :go out' there an'd ' find other ;
..I y. 771 ~ pzoblemsssue$ asithese,-if!they exist', if they'rei.there..to ~ ,772 4 773 ibringT>them~tiLlight eazir and quickly and'getuan.y.such1 ' q 7 179 J.- tg problems'sozzeoted. ..I:;oan understand that. -The problemiisithat. Mr.1Maskey. .775[L. ) ~ , ;ue? put together neu' n'anagement teams or self-po1*.cin's '. ~ ] 776 ..v. [.~.; ' S 777 agencies'by the private sector..or new initiatives-by.the f y; '774 - MRC;in'the aftermath.of Three-Mile Island,~oz'we begin our- .a a, s t - inspection; of; this.. Texas f acility in the af termath~ of La 779 a ltal'visien; prog'ramelaetDiali.that"did a blistering,:scathin'g: .740 a ,- * *.. \\,' aJ A '741 Jindiotsent ofithesuay in which the inspections?had' j 4 y.. S' , ~. s..... ,n , ~s', E .:$7.42 Stranspirediover thejyears'and violations Shich?had gone~ .s p' 4 a [733' Yuithoutfan gzaal? sanctions being[ imposed'.Tandxnow, 1 p@ .y ',m M .,,!" f[g,_, f x ,E -O '5744 J ooincidentally, + ve aza ; going 1to - see more action.'.zight'.azouMI E
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-~.. M ', i}# fg.W d f_' } ff.,'* i, J?e? s W@WE 2$m',1m/W [;#,gMO,.w$74_4 T..oontinue r a[policylfo'i. appea %0 s u ~a M, . n :: ev e .y w w,s wm@p...# d t.. / 7 < .s s" ), +% n,.- l Jg 187 5actieal,instryinguto7put'togetherasystematiojpolicyfoi, ?l! u, 1;748 fdealing[uithjiti7ozizeally:seeing1to grips'withluhether we-g[ r. .mmt s.E-r @s.,, c.j sW;c ^
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%y,~. j; R M 791 Taveht'o'gi've{anyl. kindsJef Lzaal assurances to; people"thati p, v m. "hh l ~. 793.:livelin thoUnetz visinity ofinuolear. pouez : plants? "We have-i ? 5. ~ r~ m co ~ 4 '7 ..,J, .x"- ,.193 4a'recent----Z'aitold----inspectinniin which[40 out;oi177 w4 ids: I ii e r-At the-Souf.h ] 4 - .? ,c = 6 'Is.that not so? 794.lueze foundete;have been bad. 4 w r ~ 7' 795
- Texas <inoility?
.w- 'Mr.:Stello. I. don't:know-if the numbers azeLoorreot, but: .. 3 ..m 8 /" 796 1 n 4 -i 797 I thinkitheyTaratapproximately sozzeot. y t' 4 .I r Mou.-assus-794 .Mr. Markey2 Sixty-outioi 77. welds aze had.
- l a
799 know, ifithese velds are'hadicthese-is;no, liability. There-j J mn I ^ L400 19 no,11 ability-on Brown"andJRoot'under.the~ prise-Anderson. s r. 401 ' A'o t. 3 ~ .402 yoz example', idianiacoident ooouzzed,.id.50,000 people: inn H .p ~ Mouston-vezelkilled, id?an entire landscape,uas devastateds. [.. 403 i Broun;and? Root is not' liable under price-Anderson;Act, is. l Y $04 r;:
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.m ,' - Mr. Ahearne.: That's.reallysnot, I~ guess,:the fundamenta1L. M P W404 ' ~ ) m ( j i 4,, i, ~,,4" s t' " 407 Jissueu 2Thetiundamentalriasue-is---- w - ~ > s --t 7 EMr.LMarkeyi,. It. is. the fundamental issue - because : ue ' re.. l %.. ~O,s E 404 2.y yy 3 s, P o f;, ?~ . ~ ~i $409 ilookingib'a'ok.1to whethez. or "not ; they Ehad' ~ any Jzeal _ v'estadE .j W: m "' g_ s -% .y s F '5 i 5 W s G,. G ') 41.0 ?interestTinJensuzing,that thess' plants are designedisafely' ' ;tt ~ m /s > m,m, a le -JN i k.i yj j h'hy. ya.
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+ ," M (' n '. .A.. ..a - c,- - %r s ;'.. g ,,3,. p a .x s y as, 3_ - (n, s,.. .a n. .34; A a k'pg, '. m#ms - v PAGE m NanE*lNIF367054; .c s ,w 1 v 'y ip .,,._.b. . q; Y., ~ y;;;M; W. s.'+;M.;;,' ~* 5411 ferimbethez me hav.er,a?iew'hiddes es.ve have'seasone<that's' .- y . ~; '. - ? -y.. N 418 )$ust'interestedLia:ss'guickly andsas expeditiously as i2 ...e. s ,7. x -,s', 413 lpossible slappingithis : thing together.te: aset semanastifical? _ -V
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~ m timetableithat seasone uants;to:establiskTso-that moi.ssa? m J A "i .. - x .._ +. 1 '815.have.teast' pepping lupginithe:gzestaz;Neusten' area.1, y .u o n ~ gele l The~ que'stionlis: whether er. not Breun'and 'Reet: deels Lany-1. ...?. \\ substantia 1 responsibility dez:the' life'.andtthe property of - 4 1 '417 1 s 9: M, Sto ithe pee'ple uhei liv'e]ia:thegzetterLNeustonarea:in<oase w ., ~ ~. %f 419 )these': nelds, : at < the time.. in. uhich c the i s'entainment ama'a' or' 2820 Lanylothez past of that plant is shallenged, is attempted to 2 B 421 he<oespremised by an moeident.at that plant, uhathes or.not D a'. .412 they ara-sufficiently' strong enough to'vithstand the ]1 i-423 ?pressuze. .n m. N ^ 824
- Z:osatend that.uhen.60:eut of.77. welds are found bad,-
d ~ 'f 8'25 :youve!got agpzettyjgood sa'se to be made-to go right in. .?; y J 426' sthere>to withdrau.the.constzuction.. permit and to go baok in i 4 ~ ,\\ + P '827 andido alsere-basedDreanalysis to that entire plant and any. j a ~ w* e ?othessilik's it aozess'-this country to ensure that the're.'is: d '4'28 v s 'i < 3..j h > y.. + ' 429 inot(thendanger to life'and propertycthat subsequently uill q
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?oosus'.25esauselthe zeal problem haze-is that under 'u h e, em y M [N ? '.,.. '),- j n e. 1 a p,;, n. , ygg,....AndersonW under=out' liability: system in this sountry,- TM , ggg G \\ Y M,., A,b N, !831,{that).oe'all'oam' t? sempate,- gas san' t". oempeten solaz. san't y- ..O:t .. ~ ' m jgm q Q j ' M j ja'33 [soapd e,Jas ienglas;ue aztidio' ally;subsidise this industry. [y i .1 ,a w ex w' ~r@. v.l Wp Fw J4 T.4 Landeden't:imposefuponiit(the.same.kindfoi responsibility for; f s ~, n-g o. ,x., E. , [.
- 9. e,~,^f5 1,f 4415litheLoenseguencesTod, negligent or ofLshoddy-practices that
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~T>, ... ?, Q.. -M 434 peuszsplaats;and:dewastataJthe-.landseape and<askacit' 7j ; ~ ~ we, <:y ..y +$459 iispossi51eide'u'respleN o live.in th'atEazes in the future. 9 yl 'L-n....
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L W v c' s Foiuhat,I'm wondering',is':in light of:ztha imot that.Szoun S S" l440 q e- .(841 2andytest iaza seu..seinspecting. thous' ands 1ei. its uelds,-:that,
- f.,
i, - s ~ 4 &~_. v . 848 they:are:sepairingLveids in sonoratesethey are examining ^;l g y 4 .,c ' 843 Opartsiefltheir pit 4ayLsysten s a11 of this. extra:uezk is_ J 'y* 1 $f 444.LeestingJthe matepsters'.,tWhy dea't'we just, pull the - a R - 845 .senstzuotia pezeit';and----I knou we've'never done it beforei-i. 4 446 .and'I know it' sounds-drastie, but in' light of the y 447 allegations thatfhave been made and in_ light.of the evidence ,4 j g., 844 th'at youtva.been able^to gathez,'uhat does-it,take for thez D y i d49 NRC to pull.a ;oonstruction-pezait? What is the level of j t ': ..t .~ ~ L' 450 gravityloi diolations for you:to ever.'go in and pull oneLand 1, 3. <.., ~ 1.- 2-451 make,. it ~possible for.us' >to go book 'and make that zear alysis ? .'i 5. -c.. .Mr._-Aheazna.' Mr. Eckhardt, I will ansuez ML Mazkey'in- .6 452 }' :~ ; n ,t 1 Jb .853 .' general., j'- .1 'I (3
- 454
~ Wenase beginning-to get_into the area, I think, w-m spe'oidio' lly addres's' ng the Sodth?Texasi pladt that~ I was - 1 2 a i Z ^~ i455 = =. o
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iooneernadiaboutlin my?.openingfrenarks.--Weido.have---- q 'l 4 456 $y,,a., t -, ss..c..,. -., s =.. n. .. ~
- Mzh Eckhardt. /Mr.' chairman. '.
us . willlyou pieasecoonsider;the-f;gng,. y337 g q[ L
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a... = M y>uesti,on ; as,.ene::hypothetio_ ally ' asked with : zespect ' to. what @;M W n -1454 v-: i m a = 1 g 2 2, s s. .'3 'i gg s gn ' %, 2 " j..,,~ N est Jeoulb..s.betdone'with,res'pectJto;the.pullins of s'pezait' M s% n W%, n: > ., f M.n t.w,
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- yiner Thank!you.;
c;c ~ +1. a e w,' 1Mz.'.Moshe:,'theJpeint,Z 4ad:made befese:youiazzived was; N -+: -.g w: - sett i 4 ~ s' 9.d.3 - lthat me?de have~annenge.ing proceeding withSSouth Texa's,J.:o. j s 1 '843 1 s ,_,~ a g + ~specidisiquestions, particularly:segarding-sententionsTin" ' j] x f844 i y y- ^ ~ s.. ~'865 the South Temas ease, it:is/seally iaappropriate'for me.tel _H g J m' ^ 444 prejudge : at..this ! time. w e ..... ~,, s a. ,3 %' TW-447 - 1Suttla guassal,-. I think t that the. commission would pull a ' d x
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..it ~ d2 !.464 sonstzusties; permit rif 'we' reachedi.the. conclusion that :the c ,)*.. s. k 869 , thatJa; plant s'ould not 1 i? ,m.agnitude edithe-violations 1vezeEsi r.. n.u ; ';. ,i !h / 478 'befesapleted$to?pzovidalth's adag'uate protection to health j ~ [.1 _ 871 andssafat.y,yoz1that{theilisensee who has;the senstzustion H ,,3,- r 5
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+ ~ 1872 'pezeit h44 indicated a'complate' zafusal to make changes to.. -873 medzess7uhatever zaguirements vaihad' laid on in'ordezLto jJ , c. feestethatladequatejpzotection'o.I the publie-health and j l874 4 =fi(: f475
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I T ei fun'd'amantal concern zamains that we would not allow ~ ~576 ~ g '877 tanyjylant to opsrate th'at-ve:do:not teach' a sonolusion'aeets ~~ W /574 1eurirequirements for that adeguate protection. ~g, "479 TMr. Maskey. - The zesponsibility----the fundamental a s 0884 zesponsibility----of'.guality assuranoe,.though,_ought_to ~ g;,s '< _... e a u. n w* a' J481 isepose with the Nuclear.;tepulatezy ceamission. -Don' t-you -
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L. - x 1 . ~ tc ,f844 'Jagzee with that? ,... = b ':Mz'.,Ahaazaei.ffhe fundamental.zesponsibility for the- ~ ' +... A., :~ 443 m -h ]f }g , 884 .quaki assuzamos in thefoonstzvotion of' the. plant 1s uith. f (k.Q Dj Y4 4 d 1 7
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- )485 Otheiliosasse o'fatheLylant.
Wethave.theffundamental-Qm n# j u, _ i h y,, Os'; NL a , 0.. ..1 x t. ( '. QJ"' s \\ L ?.l', a(.;$, J / g'T a. x w$. W.h.- 4: 6 Ry> i i s u QM, L} 'W " 'H q, s x g f m,' W [; i m .;x f.SG,&, ;g" ' , ; 2. -m ' '? m Q!.
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Y-4 * - .] _, M h[% dip ,'f ',.N'Q W N;_ W(, ARM. s952yS$7889) .:L c W S, y y 'y "n,~,- x ~ ~.w ~ W:q M - 3ASO '. 37 Vf. - d. 1 ',. ; C, % ~ N V.,,' .,4.,.. F i >e q!6 d , [* {J3, ,-~Q.,, ~ [ff, -- [ y, " j b h' 44:Ezesponsibility i os ; ensusiat ; that. sozosr/nthe3 board i ;the i
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J. , jQ Lg vgg.q ggjyl fl i,+isensee -+ ~ _,., - .x c j,,. , s f, fu' f 444 'requirementsJbeingitoS.aveTaicompetent quality;assu'zance' .~ c 2. m u; + 'c (- , + r ,d %, J e, 449 {pzogram. A v 3-7 .,s t5 < ,m w y t .490 _ ins.;Merkey~.Laut if you were7soing to' establish aTsystaa
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-491 'that'youireally;delt-uns-maintaining;the highest standards-y s, w n. n. . 498 of safetyidos all tho' people whoflive inithe.naar: vicinity 3 W 4 A 493 iof nuoleas_ power.plaAts, vould you.notLthinkLthat a'sys'tes e W W; 3, - s a in --x 2 i a f that gave L he ultimate zesponsibil'ity to ' the ' MRC: and ha'd.a ] t ~ [ 394 . + J 495.m,ush: laster commit' mentof MRC:zesouzoes to-the maintenance ,.)y .L ( 9 496
- of ~ safety. standards ~ and quality standards sti nuclear pouez.
R m ? 497 Lylants.Cthat'that wouldibelthe~ course'that would give us: ? l s :- r 1894.those ' kinds of plant----you'. knou, Mr. i Stallo', even. in ' ' R e,a.~U- ?,. s
- N testifying in. Bay'. City in last. month's'public hearin'?said----
'499
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-. ~ I guete ~ 4 1900 'this isia quote.s = 'H l-q [90l1 Th i isLMz.'Stallo'nou. It sotsas like s's. I'mean'you .H ~ e O ..sould}put aysquote' marks,around this nou. -W} t gJ 912 a; s. iItvellookedtback ovez-the zooord and I.:say what'I do. Ze M.r.- 903 4 ~ 903 { set /fzustrated,fjust as'.you aza. Why._didn't:the: system:we m? mg ,8
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2905 thave~inipla'oensomehou: identify land;bzing?sozzestivecaction i, ,e 81 ~. + .m x 7 . g:W is~ onert( <It's"a?Jizustration? to me.be'eauseiit'si notHjust"this 7f . "s904 s o s g- ./.., ' y'/ ,;,t'_ 907 , ' ~ - b.. V ~. -proMot.1 I'velseen itL at some'.others, Juhere I': Jus,tj uendez : % 'D - k.7 ^ t,. v,s o ,u. y-e
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- send it[out,to,the"Maldea' Evening Nous (thislevening.-
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- Myf iguesties is f uhr ' esatt ;ue ^ehange (the f systenfg,Why'eantti 4, @a.
s s m... s ., e ls'. g, 9?8 (me getc.teugh with-these people?? LNewtiong 'de' we.-have to wait : p::. j. es n QW -916 ;hedere usisealiseithat:thefdefieteadies}that'.have'been; %? 1917h reve' T e s a aled,Ithei efects in the uelds, th's~oenerate -the soil,' d i i 1-1. o -914 all.haveLsounterparts inlau.eleaz peuez.plaats'alleeszoss;, d 1a u, i e /. 919 ithis.eeustry4-andithat ;ue will not have a seally serious H s. ~ s o .929.:reappr. aisal 'edithe nuolear power system,in 'this souatzy I 1N n, "921.
- until we have'.the~Nuolear.' Regulatory' commission, the-9
, y y ~ ~^ 0_ 7 932 'uatshdorc gency, the1 agency ' ub'.4h : Isieel has.abzogated'its a 0 s -923 resyensibility 'beesuse it ze'allyshas zafused to exezeize' y i -i -914 that ultimate powez which it has to.: lust ri. p away a. n hv 1925 */s'enstzustion.pez.ait' and send ^a signal that would have ~ i 926 zeverbezations all sexoss.this souatzy with utilities <andL: 1 ~ 'f 927 azehitectural an4 engineezing firms, to let them knou'that- /'. 6 f c_. 1984 <b'usiness-as-usual is' ended:Lth'at the mindset-that has M 929 lbedeviledathiseindustry over the years'has.to change.and- ~, n' i i: u q.; c y g %: lthat!wecare 3oie( M P va a beginning.of.a neu aza? 930 n 1 j. ..p s x. ,OQ* n then I'a not goingtto be ? :%,'N A ~ N P, m,s _931 ? Until!Ilsee1 thatTk2ni of shange', .e f /.,4 g 4.;* ,.eenvinced that;the people:of Neusten?and.theiz' safety is-IM? ~ T938 1. + an _ .,.. ~
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.e ,, *L Q y ;- Q L NAMRO NZy367459 H U. < 4..e~ V 4 ~ ip.AGEi '39f ~ 7' ~~ ~ - e. .c-i - J np w -s ,a s- .fE, s z . i v- ,a,. 3- > e-i 7g. N, ,.3 e. y: 2 s f. l SS6'7andangered.beseusesof Qe kind?of' sere-basedezeana ys s u~ill N3 .u .5 m '< '.:
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y c m .n f 6,V ^ M937 .netlhave:besa;oorlusted. ~ t, . e, .n,v; j f J938 Ma'.# Ahezzae'.. ; May LZq: lust make Ooouple?of comments?f m n s IN w 4 m , 1.,.. ~.. -., m, ,t M: /939 Mr.:,Maskey,E ueabeth' have 'hadEmany. etheaienshanges<inimany< ,7 4 ~ n.. 1 0: 944 ' ethez?ieontions W and ;Z' disagree f uith7 a' numberiof ' y'eur.- u.~ s 9 p- ~ ^
- 941
- points,fastyou well know.
4j .. -~~ 1 m q j. y r. .. ~ fy g.943 ('.12.deLmetLhelieve9that've have abrogat,ed.ouz: 1 ~ ' I.,. ~ 7
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- 9.43
.sospensibility:;I di aot believe'that'we have-not"given a: .,f) a. ,.,.c- . 4 .j H f~, 944 " signa 14,Youissy1that we have not taken the ultimate' action.- n. J STha't is"trub Ne ha'.,ve. not lifted the constzus tion permit.- x G .545
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m 9.45., The : plant's3enstzustion has ~ baan stopped dos alust -a year.- t. 1987. Mechavelimposed aivery s diousi significant' fine on them.- I~ l i LandLI.think ue have7 akensa very dzastic actioaluith zedpect [ n t f ? 944 c,1 i .L 4
- a
_l f %: 949 :tolthen ~.. a - 9.5"0. mJ' e ~, They:,have ended up making fairly suesping, changes in theiz m a ~ . s 951 management;stzusture,jin the^ actual shifting.oz zanoving 1 4 , n. 953 Lpeople.- 'As Mr.xsaydrit!said insthat'.sameDpublic meeting' y ~ P Y ~ N .953 tthat!you'aze guoting,SIlthinkfthat!ue are skeptical. Wa - m ~,w i, 4 'i. p '~ --954 5:emain'to;b'e;oonvincedithat{those actions.'are going to be f.J c g.. w s y. 4,4 L'955 adequate,1butL ue1 arci meritoxing';very closely, : and. I : don' t ' e ^ c ,.S-. j, g - m 956 believeRthat *as:tadi~aa.tedianyJk'indJof'a: signal 1to.the zest ?. s' _L p s ....:a p -y - t .r ~ xn yin. ~, ;. 40. v 1957 1oisthelindustry?otherithanithat've: axe very serious about? g w,' ' av ,wy .: ensuztagVth.e,",pl._. antis {?oonstzustion isafeity'.' ax WJ.n. [.1 'O-954 v --, <. 4 % , u. r ?e s. d -WW,,,.,..TS %,!r %.?Markey.? dell,Jthe 90-day'Shouton cause peziod has. P r ~ ~ .f,o C ... a . ~ - = 7 ~ 2959 ~; y t J. n. Em W+J;N 4...960 5:lustielapsedband7stil1Enothing lias ooouzzed. Jj ~ n. m .n_. ;. s,; n ~.. m-n C.!?" w e ?: ~ ~- -5.,~ ~',- " ~ ' ' 5 0 Nl l' l t &-5 D $T.l.? '. Li ~ - m ~ m s-p ,si j I* ^ 1 l; h W+NQ. 's.;; t?: 'Am ,a y i,. p ..,r q~
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p:..n ,;v ,,/ m., : , ?;; ;.,, p l! S 7;, J - je3 gg.;nzicesessmat:. m w, . - ~ ,, d Coseezan.r ThanklyeuM.Nz. Chairman.' -',x,J ,>w '.;964 Ee s g .m u, - -. c;., ,. 1 ~ r...,s. ~ F..~ ',, _ (945 Q w.ZielseiveryfauchbappresisteEthefeppertunity toiseeTouz . s>.. &x n,. c., H ~
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f./: ..t-1 Qs [c.{966 (dziends)dz'esEtheINRCmbedezeithis dozua.- 'Wetwe had;enshanges r.. ar y '.M,, t m-f.. Q. .. r4 ,,.m. s sialthefpas. y and'I'. den't:p'retendLt's.have; intimate knowledge. 6 t 3; '7947 c.,e w -u g,.., ~-.. a, i ?yc '964 ;fedbthe :Seeth Tesa's)prejaet,ibut I.think: some of' the ipeints? ^i + 4 W: 969 sindioateithet iN aa,yJbe;symptomatio'of ouz: problem. i a,, w a w ww. x 2r t s J , ~ JBefore Tsettingiinto.that, houaver, I would!like t'o 'saise a I +e ,970 .$(c ,.. :w s Tuestiwa ozituotabout the funding for-the~NRC ia:the coming ,l v w 971 r o 1
- V M 971 (months. 1As you dnou,'.de Congress isTeon'sidating a sort of
%s s -. e m. -.. k, 973 - unus.ualtsolution;'to provi& Jag additional funds for the .g cagencies?offGovernmentlthis M az M a-continuing resolution. W
- Q 1974
~ .s E i 1975 f am son.ser'ned9 about the a?aguate. staffing foz.the; agency.- m p,4 .9M.,sI knou-uhenJyouhtestified".bafore our Energy and youez e 7, .977. Subcommittee,;you:jpzesented"some.zacommendations uhich we .m ~ - 'c s .N ~ f,3 n Lsupported'for inezessed' staffing.. for. technicians'and. ,L p ".,.. ~ ' inspectors andia'ozess-the-boazd,ior the agency. I just-y 974 .. - ~ . ~., s m" :n 1979 ,L . m** s 7 Jr - 9'40 ;uendez, Jia111ghtjof;the Liast that the appropviatiion bills. 'd ..~.; .+ c u o y' ' N uc .- t,.
- J. n 2d
- 941 lindividuall'y?nerinet be enacted..for;1uite sonectime,cuhethez 1
g *M ' > ^ 1 6 p{. w 9 s 6 _ &M f", . ', j- (9_42 le;zinet}you: feel;you?have#ade(ua'te; staffing,nou ' for the ?:' + n +, ~. ~. i1 t z' c-e : u gg3 M Jpes.tions,Jfor>allWei thelothez-work that the? agency-I i, ?. A.a. x ma ', 4. 1 -., f4f -s e q c V iC..l J mp 944,thinkFisi,in nited.. ink pastimularly'in' light o'i-itslattempt 1), v a.... v. s o-L V :;' ' m e r,.. }W ~ ',1 ph :t -
- gg cgoiespandEitsfLeapab'111ty inLordez;to-apply?the lessons 1
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- Auture in;that'respeett
- lThat{is,?the neaz-teza future.
4 ~ 989 Ms.fAhearne'.';Well,-Zithink;that if.veLeon't get' approval-M r190 d theTiNoreasidiataffing,xparticularly in;the'lazeas;of ~ ~ 991 Anspection andiendososaent and reactoz.zegulations -that;we y <, 7 992 had l asked idor, and las fyo'u've mentionedi had. been' tentatively 993 Japproved,ithst ve will begin facingsinoreased problems going D h a = 994 ' into. the' f all and 'earli spring 'on ataffing adeguately the 995 inspector. sites:and-in continuing with the lisensing-zeviews. 996 lthat've aze now committed.to----ss I uas-mentioning to itz. ~ 997 .ient----that'vanare turning our people to. i 994 As more plants,oose inte the' stage whera se want r-999 inspect'oxs'these,;as note: plants get zandy for the'lisensing s. seview, ve need to haGe the qualified people.'part of our 1000 1001 ' problem is.that'weJomn't-instantaneously hire the kind of !x 1002 Jindividual-that ue : can'.use :in these' spots. They are hard to r &[ ' lthe4:egulatory philosophy,.in the regulations and regulatory 1003 ' find, ~ and Ionoa'Iiound, there is still a period of training in. 4 1004 y.;. w. . 'appzoachlif necessary,{before you.can turn those people on.
- 1W9
, c% '1c04 Ais/I. test'ified Dialother; places's the zaguests that us had st s.. fY." _10c7 pputLin uere', Z. delt,ctightRbut' adequate', but not.heing able-5 (
- w 1004
'to"mest(th'ose hele'azlyicthings will havento slip, and'what N., _ X;. ,w- 's,' s" ~ g. y i'^# he 1,
- 41009.uill end4up?slippin't'.azetthe staffing of'the~ inspector slots
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.These is no way we can ~ 6 %.1 --, ee. / and [als e ith'e /licens.ing i ra vieus. ..1 . M1.010 ~ m% w w. p v. 8 ^
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,l ~1013 .about aJoontinuing, resolution..These is another alternative: 1 ,a ....a + C ,f1014 whichLis even'moze i nstie:and'.uould be a lot harder to do' ~.
- OS 1s [Ede$ately.^
~ s .1016 iMr. Cozoozan. Nell, these.is:a continuingizo' solution that-1017 1hasipassed'the House,and pzesumably!uill pass in the senate,
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- h'opefullyiuithout too many~ohanges', aspesisily with respost:
- 1018 i'
1019
- to..its. terminus. :
q q 4 ~ 1020 f (But belthatlas it may, are you familiar with that-R a
- y...
- 1021
. continuing resolution which, as.you knou,-in general, when ~ 10'22 twe've.had: continuing-zesolutione, it's been at the ouzzant H w 1023 'budiet leve1..eIn this particular case,-the:oontinuing i< ~ ~ e - 1024 frosolution'is,:fzon tho' standpoint.of the Nouse at least, at 7 ~ 1028.the)1evellof'the appropriations bills that have passed the w. . 1026 'Nouse~this" year doz the'ocsing I6isaal' year. I don't knou. M, ). [ 1027 and[that's the reason-I asked the question. ~ 1020 .In thatDevent, it'.uould seem that we could expect. your ,,.~
- 1029
- ag'ency'.to:be' funded _under-the continuing.zesoi dion at the.
~ 11evelled the'jY.4.1: appropriation hill. Do you'knou.whether. '1030 5q l_ 1 103?['oz'not!that is[the. ease?l g... d }1032 'Ms MAheanne. No :Itz. Coroozan, I don't.- I knou that the- .M f1.033 iNouse appro'pziation aotion[uns-less than'What the Senate s h:h[.. 71034 .appropzi.ation action: uns. - We'reelamaad to the Senate and 2 ~+ q j:19I9 $they, fin;particulas,Dadded additional spaces for f1r. an. 'y t y M; 5
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q w x, .. i. j . q/ 1434-[Ste11o'sloidies.-- ~.. v.;- + i n test ^~ 'nz. Coroezan.- 2 would' appreciate it if,r as"one of the ~ ,r' s ,1-E1034 'hyp'zoducts of'this.heezing, I could learn <froa you through 1 1039 yyouz'sta'if.the' impact of the:sontinuing~zesolution on your [ a 1940 ageney. 1941 'Nz. Ahassne. We'll get back..to-you'on.that: shortly. ./ 1942 Ns. Coroezan. Secondly, and.the only.other point.that I. ,4 .l 21043 -would'like to discuss, would be the issue of'the vaziations D 1044 .that.you talked about in your statement as well as in'youz < f ~ l'es5 ~ discussing the matter with o'uz solleague from Massachusetts, ' ~ 1946 Mr.:Markey,~about'these different approaches that.the 3 1047 licenses might have in having one person responsible for y 10'44 fisonstzustion"and another person responsible for the 'l 1049 .'architest/ engineering work, andt of'sousse, with the TVA 1050 you would have what would appear to be in my view a better-I '1051 approach, where you have one entity that's responsible for y ^ 1052 .all three of those functions, a 1053 Why are there so many differences when, as you.well knou,. h 1054 wa ase not talking s~sout a tremendous ' number of pro:lects? '1055 Wo. have some 72 power plants ;in operation nou. We have Y '1056 .90-odd power plants in.some stage'of process right nou I 1957 'hedose.oosing-on-line. Why sze there these differences?. I n 1050 lWhat 'is--the reason for that? 1 Ms. Ahe'azna. f.et me'give an' initial'ansuez and then I'll L1059 .s g 3 -, M 1960 turn it"ovez'to Mz'. Ste11o or Mz; Thornbury to expand. I f, 4 ,c,, s: N'J i_ - m ; y. '.4 O," L .i .. q - 1 'a $y ., Mh, 2 1, 'e L. :,.. :., ; z $$ S$ 57 1 cA g,';gw,3 1 n.
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{'. f ~ 4 j. % % y mi }l l, A r-(=* t . MANE 'NIF861050 -PAsf '.44_ C Jg .These asetat least;three companies that build'their own 199_1 m. [' 1968 plaats: Tennessee' Valley Authority Duke power' Company and' 1963 Ceameauealth Edison. That ip, they are the constzusters. 1944 But:to construet a;auslaar power plant is a very large :lch,. 1965 land.it.zaquires's very large: Merk fosse, and I'think at-that ^ J' 1c '1064 Jievel.ef~ action,sthat's sort of assassible only te the-g /' .1067 1argest esganisations. These three happen to be ones that ( 1968 are heavily committed to auslear yover and so have.the 1969 ability to have that. size vosk fotos. t> 1970 As faz as uhy some companies go.on to----suen,as'Neuston d '.i E 1071 --the same oospany to'do both versus tuo different oostantes, b 1972 I'll ask'Mr. Stallo.
- f i
^ 1973 It is my impression'that it is the zaze soapany who has I' 1974 had the same organisation act as both architeot/ engineer and T -1075 sonstzustor. 1076 Mr. Stallo. To amplify some of the comments the Chairman: I 1077 has mad's, I~'think the reason the utilities-azzange to build-i- 1074 the-plants the usy they'do is the result of their previous F 1959 experience.pzior to goihr.-into the nuelaar business. I ~1040 'If thaza vere a utility who-had a very'largw angineazing [ 1981 office sapable.of doing theiz-oun azehiteot/engineezing' I~ l1083 work,.they 414 so.- If they had lazga constructihn iozoes y, 1043 because,they, built theiz-own. plants,:then they' vere inclined y, Talso-to'de so'with tha' nuclear. Lad.that is, indeed,-the
- 1084
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'oase-in: utilities such asiDuke power Company-and TVA and 1-
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}y +omp + s5 ~ p,, y:,, G - 4? s n~.. m 45-R NAng 51F2670'80'- PAGE 11446' Miagaza-Mehattk'youez;Corporati'en to a degree. V a Ih1 Se.the way in.which they aza seing about' business now is a Ms 1000g_produet of how they had been going about building their- . l 'tetti eleetzisal' generating facilities.in the past. A'ad as I 1990 underst'and it, the usy Nousten ?ouez -and Light made this i-1891 decision, it is based-on their previous experienee of hou
- ~
1993.they in feet'have gene'about the business of building a 4 - pouez plant.- I think 'it is really history that dictated the L 1993 1994 .uay the. individual utilities made-that decision. 1095 Mr. coreeman. Well, I can oestainly appreciate that, but 1994 it would-seem to me that uith the use of nucleaz power, you-1997 are talking about another dimension, so to speak, of the 1090 uosk that's involved in bringing the pouer plant on line. 1999 LI just uender, in view of the esperience that you have had 1100 thus faz with the Texas plant, which is the subject of this 1101 hearing, would it.not be advisable, at least for your agency 4 1 1102 to review the posture of the agency zelative to the company 1103 'as to whether or not we would want-to approach it along the 1104 lines that.TVA has.done or commonwealth Edison in Illinois 1105 oz; Duke power oz.sene of the.others, because of the nature ~ 1104 ~of the uezk that's. involved, the size of the work, the ~ 11'07 quality. assurance controls that I;think have to be there in. order to e nerate=the-public confidence that's going to:he j .1100 ~ y )* Jt ~ 1109 - needed?. g. l'110 'I:recognise not everybodw in this room vill ultimately jqi m ,c a _j { I M,, ~ 'E _',.2..' C + ~. --4 =I 'a w - nc a y
y.- g :,,,27 739 - ; n - u. ~ 9 3a. w q. c v1 .n., 4( f 't [i.[ gang: 33y36733e' .pASE 46 ' 1111 mespond to what'is done, but I think that, in general, 1113 (people need to be seassuzad en these matters and I think 1 6. y,. s 1113 that one of the ways perheys to de that would'he to make a m W 1114 shange-in.that'respost. ~ ' 2 esalise at'this point you axe not in a position to have 1115 e 1116 m definitin zeastion, but I 'vonder whether er not it's 4
- t17 worth saviewing.
I i. 11IS - Ms. Ahearne. We aze, Mr. Corseman, zeviewing our generalf I I '11191 philosophy.ef apptsach to the management of-tha design, t -i 1 sonstzustion, operation of nuclear pouer plants, and one of j -1120 1111 the issues that is to be addressed in that zeviou is whethez 1122 or not se should zequiza----strongly encourage----that kind'.of, i I tit $ separation. i l 1124 I think it is generally true that uhere we have found?'
- l 1125 " problems (in-the.constzustion, it is because, just.as you.-
~ 1126 indicated, there zeally is a difference. It's a different 1T17 -s:snitude when you go to build a nuclear pouez plant, and i :. ' - i~ 1128 the songenies didn't appreciate'that.- .s l ,1129 f1z..Coroezan. Thank'you very much; 1130 e.f13. Eckhardt. Mr. Stallo if you like,.ue will.put your 1131 statement:inf the-zeoord in full. You any summarise"it.and v q + .1133 further somment.: I knou many of the. things you haww stated ] e s 1133 in-the material you gaveimachave alzaady been oovezad. ~ e ~ 1134 Mould.you procee'dR j u;. A 1135 w x .h; e L py Afp.
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3.,. s. a.. 9 h;.., ~, 7.r. m, m z,3, w; e,..;- ~.~ i c,: f f. + ? -.y ; w> e-.: ) 9 ~. v- ,c c .n 3 3.,. ;, ~ a l,'c. f-n ,iM&MEscNZF267050 'PAGE '. 4 7 ~. .~ c, STATENENT OF YZCTOR STELLO,'41., DIRECTOR,. OFFICE OF-n1134-n e.[ .1137 11MSpICTION'AND EMFORCEMENT, MUCLEAR RESULATORY CONNISSION-G x -1134 51139 Mr.!Stallo. Mr. Chairman, what..I.had proposed, with ~ 7( 1140 your yezzission, resega'ining 'I have a ~ zathsz ' lengthy. i- . ~.. -1141 statement, is to try to very-briefly summarise my statement, s, 1143 and I'sould de so veryJuickly. x 1 T< .Nr. Eekhardt..Without objection, then, your full- .-1143, ~ 4 1144 statement will be put in the'zo' cord. You mayo prossed.' 1145 Mr ste11o..okay. t 1 146 Of ataziN1 'fo11ous.1
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+.,. h M' %u 3-~ >.p. w ;C ,J s-6 s {ij 7 t9 .s .s A NAMER NZF367050' ~ :pASE 4's T 7 6 ~ '11,49 Mr. Stelle.- let' pe : herin back at the ~ start of' uhen we i x a "1154.hegan'to~see probless at theLSouth; Texas site,;which began 1- ,1151 in eaz1y 1977, ut.:en we received the first of a series of A l ,1153. allegations concezning hazassment and intimidation of' Rs 1153 ju'ality contzel inspectors at the south Texas site.' Theseallegationsvezeihvastigat'adandbzoughttothe i 1154 ~ '1155 licensee's attention.- Neverthele'ss, they continued., The 1154 F3Z also investigated =the allegations'and in a letter from ~ J AttorneyCassigned-to -the. Southaza Distriot of. - ,1157 -the U.S. '1154 Texas, dated December 4,-1979, prosecution of this mattez~- 1159 uns(d'aolined. g 1160 Ne continued oux investigation;and inspection-activities-1161 and began to. intensify'our efforts as the allegations U 1163 :yezsisted. Finally,.foll'ouing a neu series of allegations 1
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'k-C'- '1163 Tzoosivifion-Movember'3, 1979, I decided that an in-depth '1164 Sinves'tigatio: be'made into.the sentinuing allegations.'of ~ p?
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[47 1'.66c intimidation'of contzaotor-tuality contzol.eaployees. l.- ~ 4 v J116'f i - I/further dizeo'ted that)a comprehensive review of.the u b r' 1164 suzzantieffectiveness.'ofLthe.. implementation of,.the tuality I
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116'9 assuranoe[programbemada.- This latter.dizeotive, as'ueLaou-j :.g .! o
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1,. ,s ,s .s M 11171 theirtsignificanos later. ^ "' .{' n s F; r; 117.3 ! Leb ney parenthett.oally. note----I.see Mr. Markey is' gone. _ l x. ..w 1 - '? ~ 2.1 17 3 ' findiostedLoz'left?the impression enfa.a suggestica that the-P y
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49 z 2 J.. ;._ f%. zeason'tiz;the'.,soaprehrpsive idok at: south Texas =uns the ') ~.1 1,74 .f". g - <,,. A 1"'_ ' 1175 zesultt of: some ' programs that' were ' aired on TV last f all _ and > ?, ~ ' ? M
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.2 uant;to emphasize:thaC that-decision'as:totuhat to-do on ,11174 ,t-a y . ~. C - 1177 South Teams.u'es.mine, andoit;uasjnot's zesult of the TV: m + [, - 1174 prostaa, but"the(persistensi of:the. allegations that'uete l1179 ooming[to'lus asLaIzesult of Nur assigning a resident ~ ~
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I 4e s 1140'- : inspector to-t"he south Texas cite-in September of.that year. F ,a f 1141 . Z des'ignated--th'e'Dizestor.of the Division of teactor E x l 1142 constzustion -Inspection in ny. office as the' individual 1 s 1143 responsible for forming a multi-sissipline investigating m 4 p m: ~1144 . team. The temaLoonsisted of six members: selected ~from 9 1'145 various1NRd regionalioffices and included.the resident j 1 [ 4? 1146 sinspector assigned'to the, South-Texas site. i; i. Utilising inspectors-from other regions provided not only .114'7 ~ 1148 a sizesh 'look; at the problems, ib'ut instansed 'the technical 1149 'expsztise in theiproblem areas of-conosate instzustors. i .r: 41190 Also,12 expectedithe special-investigation team to obtain a .s < "^ broaderi: integrated view.of the quality assurance'pzogsaa.at 1191 ~ ~ 1192 thetsit.e tha'n-that'previously obtained from individual m '.1193 inspe. ctisas. h,, ?194 Furthez.exei Z:was-impressed by the results ofla team-u cc l M4 inspection approach that'wel'had recently conducted at the Xs '";g, 119 6 glanchle, Niili site lduring l the. summer of 1979. As you vill I ',', -1197czeoab1Mflashle? Nill (also,hadEsignificantRAproblems. 8 <a a . lQ.: 41'194 This specials avestigstingi. team conducted itsluork between fA) y o, Nfl b_ n& f i j. u v 5&, > N,: 1 ,y + W fL.'. n. i m w _c ej% q j 2 ((f '(og % j[d < U ,?" j 3, e - 4; M;
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? ,p ~, ~ MM NAMES NIF247059 pASE 50' uM 1 m 1_1,99!;Movember:1979 andlFebzuary 1980. Resuits.'of this - N 4 t. 1200 ~ investigation-substantiated a:large nuakes of allegations i - 1891 'and"ieund'thEt quality sontrol inspestozs were.harasse'd, u
- 1tet threatened'and intimidated
- _ production yzessures-on the SCJ o
4 U, 1802' inspeetoss'weze'iound: weldez'gualifications and uald d j t - '. '~, 120% 'gualifications'veze_massinal in several instancess:t's SA; H a r audit siysten vesJfound defielent.' - Disposition and handling ^1205 1206 'of' quality nondsonformance.zaports was inadeguate. 1807 Thess' difficulties in.the SA program caused us to sonolude ll E 1204 ~ that sa ozdez sentaining~a number of elements, as. listed.on 1209 page 7~ef sy preparad statement, as well as'a civil penalty-t -1210 'Heze needed. 1811 This Order was. issued on April 30,'1980. i f 1 [ -Ga Ju19 29,.we.seeeived,the licensee's response to'out. 1212
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1812 Ordez to-Shou Cause. -The response: addressed e'ach of the ' ssues from the Order and providad details of oazzeotive ~ i ' l 1814 121'S astion sizeady taken or. planned.to be'taken.- - J 1816 Following initial revieuiof.the response by my staff, we 1817 conducted a publie meeting.on. August 19 1980 at Bay City, ~ ,n C') Teams, with the licensee, Brove and-Root,;the_'publia, myself 1218 i: 1819 mad'others fzos the NRC. staff in-attendanse.- We asNedithe ~ .1820 ,11eensee and Brown'and Root;many'guestions.and zaguested. -1821 'elezifications'segarding-.the information contained in'.tha p 1222 362ponde to:ouz Order.- 31222 / members of the':public asked question and many of [ ~
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- subcommittee. staff
- and Htho'parlier comments by'Mr. Markey I
.m 7 1226 1 <.l A-7 M ?; a$ P,, 1227 i.essume were taken from that'transozipt. ~ + ' [- f ' CAC h~ g.. ,,.3 H 1 JInfad11 tion =to these' formal awtions, I personall.y. visited: 5, <1228 ~- .r. -- v - - - - + m
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9* <1229 Dthelsouth. Texas siteLuithLether members ~of the staff and_ - q m. -) Q'^.] .~ ~spentia;dayf aspesting completedDand-ongeing-construction . ~,. i 11230 w -
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- 1231 yaotivities and talking.to workers cad-quality-assuzanos j
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1233 -Based-on the response to'ouz Order, the publio meetingi. 1 jm-,. 123.4 iand uhat I have heard from both management and uozkers, my ) m m. 1235 'overalljimpression is that there has been a turnaround in ~ I m. .m x 51236 1 attitude-with'zegard to quality control at South, Texas.. O .DM~ j1237 The.fo'11ouing coauitments by the licenseeJand Brown and , i 1 s. a 91238 (Root < exemplify.this..attituin changes ?. '1239 _0ne,itheforganization changes have been made to more s ~ 1240 1dizestly; involve-seniozlaanagement in~ quality' assurance. yi 4 e e N ,o ll., Q 1241 :yez example', the licensee's Executive-Vice president ~has ' + m..; L, ~. ~ 1242 ?.b'e.en' relieved of.other responsibilities tofspend virtually M' + r - Eg ,}y l1243 jfull tias on t'he South' Texas pro: leet.. _Na has persona 11yf f Mse The cWW
- 1244 ico,mmitted'totbe~at.the site aboue tuios each week.
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- 1255 Three, addition'a1. people.uith inszensadfoapabilities havec j
] I-L1254 heen. assigned to the " quality. 'assuzanoa program.. roz.- ~ 1237 . example. the licensee staff"in this1 area has -heen_ inezessed 11254 lby.six? specialists uith anInverage ofxtenyyears 8 experience 3 ej em t 1.859 -in.the field.. The'3rouniandJRootEguality assurance.annager---- ~w 1160 D 1261 iMr.'Eckhardt.. Mr. Stallo, we vill have to zaoess a'.momen't gj 1862 g Ltolansuezathe roll'ofothe. main committee. We will.come' ,O e .. (. - 1262 ' ' righti b a'ok.. ~ l'_- e IRecess taken.I_ J' 1264 -1265 ~ ' Mr. Eckhardt. The subcommittee will zesume. fj m 4 .b ,3 >= : - 1266 , Mr. Stello?. ' ~ 1Mr. Stallo.T Shall/I-begin where_1~1 aft _off. Mr.' Chairman? 1267 q s 11268 Mr.- Eckhardt..Yes.
- 1269 nr. Stello. The; Brown and Root quality assurance-managar-I 2
. J' l 127.0 ..'has been replaced with a. consultant who has had 20 years' [ w g L1271 ..experienc e.' Ozga.nizationrahanges,have'been ande to' provide . _. =. R' 1272 strongez1 licensee;dizeotion'of.guality assuranoe and' .l ~ 'i '1272 Mnere'ased Broun1aAd-Roothany',neering~dizeotion.-of, quality' j ~ };, L Ms f'
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1274Onndjfsiluza.tolusestrendfanalysisjto~ aid 3in' identifying _ , L. ~ ' = s.2_ -~, d Q l,.1871 Muslityyprshless.7'~ ~ w . m g /1240 Zaladditienetoltheinadoziissue'of quality asssmanom g T ~ ~ 3 e
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., s M & a m a s & A 1 2 4 1_ attitude sne ~ paziermance,ythe licensee :has takenj action to.
==, l,M M,, % - 112,42 Esozzect.specifio.problemsfin' safety-z_ elated?uork, such.as ~- s ~ o = a_ m 31;:1F . ay:: =., ;_ -- s r..:.- 1243 h ozete,'and % 1 ding. :InTthis?reegard_ZJsee no evidence.of a. 4 (1284 (reluctanceitoshookjpzevious'ly;oonplatedhwork'.- t - =1245 yoricMample,;the711'oenseelhastoommitted to..zeinspect all .M 6 ~ >/ l1246 aoomssiblewoonplated structural.uelds:uith seinspection of a r.... . 1247 dinaosessiblelueles to beidetermined basednon'results. The lihensee is c.1'soluncovering a:significant quality of buried. 's' 8- ,} , 1 'h 1284 ,1289 /Classi3 piping.ioz;seinspection. J E, c w, :.- 1290 In1 the'stestiar nyl prepaze'd in.anticipationLof ajJuly ~ s s~c' 1291
- hearing by youz1 subcommittee I: indicated on page.5 the c.
l6,=. ~ s. n , r ~ , 4 1292 apossiblecunanswered= s'adety guastion-uith regard to fy
- 1293 LhuilaiiNsi foundation as a zasult of~our findings based'on ~M f
cyg s fu .the[1'icenseetsdocumentation.P s hi,A [1294 L
- n
.,-g j g, -a GA%sfzesultiof. addit).onalfield:inv,stigatory.vozkand-11295 ,5, y ,m c - ~ ~ -. e, M 1j1296 xactual'fieldis'amples,1! including -horings and 's'ese addition ~al ~ d c pn ~ w. ypp - n.a . m 11297 Janalyticaliuork,'it appears there'is-not 2' major problem.:- %y,*,. ' R ', y&y ~ s y;. T;h
- 1294 x.iMeUstil1}havelsome areas toc olazify Land ito ' obtain and -
, '4 c p.. r., v-x c. ~. G~ g-g(R['W. 4 gj ~ 7,7: y . M/1 $7 f' y W., Q >y 4 f 1, ~ )y en a a.F%, n ,c e., y.r. w_ da a.c 4 ~ ' t._ f a'
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s.:q, m 91' igang NWZF167050I PaeE J54 ~ ', rp - ...1 ^ ~;1399 izavieu s~iina17xopost fros the lineasse adezessing? soils and' _s %- g + . r ^ 4e 1300 : foundations..Our ldinal assa: aantLwillifellou.that effort. A ,y W;t s _ 'In-summary,~.;the. licenses hasitaken many cozzestive actions c1301 ~ 2 ^and-made a' number,of commitments.yet t'o be. completed. We ~ t' x1303 ~ 11303 ?are trackinglthess.'and kotion 4 inspectors areLverifying'the pi# actions ' at the ' site. - '1304 ' 11305 Mafety-related work will-be zestarted in segments as s f. s1106 zeluiredLoontitsents_are completed. with.the--liseases a t hg. -1337 Nob'taining our ironouzzence fez nach uork : segment.- h f m. L 1308 With.the licenseeand contzaotor pazionnance.zacord that I 1: led to theicassation of safety-related uozk at south Texas.- n. O 130v y e. 01310 un intendito demand that.all commitments beLaet..Nouavez, J. ' ' '1311 with:the revised = approach in attitude.being demonstrated by; 1313 ithose responsible'for'the: south? Texas' plant. I as t313 * = consciously optimistic that they.can completa the ' psodest in. 1 ~- t< 1314 conformance uith;the'constzustion permit. 1 s 1315 Returning-to'a point I mada eazlier, our experiences with 4 1316.the1 south Texas project and the Flazble' Mill facility suggest -1317 -thatia zavision to our construction inspastion process may-t l' g ~beauseful. Specifically, the concept of an integzated 1318 rJ.'- 1319 aultidisciplined team appzoach_ito inspection rathart.than- ~ ~t 11330' [in'dividual inspestion activitiesiovez an: extended"periodeof qp ~
- 1331 timaineeds to7 hesoonsidered1for othat projaots.
a - + A, ._1333 -The team; approach will feature use-of a,n.inte. grated -m u ... ~. ,NK _ j 1333 (multidisciplin's; team,. -inozaased 'esphasis foniobserving. m. 4 p g- .g g = x [ 3! ',.7 - - i; h, h,w. A M &2i ':j ^ r v -, ,,w .z~ y;. en n
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- .y' 3
l148ti:enseing verk-at the: site, emphasis'en..lisensee and 4 s ?t335 -centzester senagementueffectiveness in'taxas'of management .a 1336 'ei theLguality assurance function, inezessed' emphasis on-1 I1337 interviewing ~ workers andLinspeotors, and'iner'ased emphasis i s 11334 -enLintegratNJzavieuloit inspeition zesults in taxas of = ' ; ~ < 3xs= .=J1339 1 quality;assusan'oelpzestas. implementation. .j ,*ysw - As' I' indicated earlier. ~.ua are having a meeting to' discuss ] 1 1330 1831 -:fustisuok an= approach.later-today and-hope to be ~ 1333 Laplementing it~en a trial'hasis in the near future. ] 1333 lMr. Chairman.-that' concludes the summary of my testimony. ) .i 1334 I. assume,that my prepared remarks can be entered in'to the / 1 ,.1335 zooo a fully. j i334 'Mr. Io;hardt.- That is correct. q 1137 Mr. Stallo, I have-a letter dated April 3, 1975 izou the '1338[ Office'ofInspection-andEnfozooment. Region 4, of,the i. m1 1339 Muolear: Regulatory Agency, which seems to point-out these -{.; 1340 matterstas they came up atithat time. .It says: R a ,1 1341 During'the 'inspestion it'uas found that your quality ] o g 1343 ~ assurance:progras'was deficient-in that certain~ activities fl* ~
- 1343 appeared not to meet. the' requirements of Appendix 3
- to s
[ 1344
- 10CF150 f oi - the7M1C.zegulations.gualityisssurance criteria
./. p ~ u.
- 1345 cforinuolear:pover, plants. 'Thejitems'andizeferences to:.the.
{ ^ L-1346 ; pertinent reguirement>are'. identified in section 1'of the i p k. 11347 ' summaryf ofl the? enclos s'd. zepor.t. ' ' T i
- ,.g
- 41 m
- t - 1.
Yourjagenoyitnersluas'refazzing to:what'later developed'asd:; 11348 8 J - t r l.. _f ' - )~ h 3 t .g,,M-
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- 54.
.: a ..p -4 ,. i 4 ., e l1149 5 ;sess ; ez less the ferau' of the : prehles.even. at that time: is a ~ g;a. ~' s st350 ~ttist: net sozzest?. j E Q 5 Mr. Stelle. In-general, yes.. -~~1351 m i 1352 '. $Nr.18ekhardt. Mr. Sayisit, of yous areasy, La discussing -n ~ .W ..1853 the" task ahead fez-Neusten-Lighting and youez Ceapany has 4 1854 zesently stated-- ;and that is. after the hearings in _the. .w 1355 developmenti ofLmatters as-they:esist_.teday----and:I Tuotea' .? 1854 iThese areLa greak:many, things that have to ha done and- ~ ~1857 =the ebeze'ef;getting(these things done is an. awesome onee' i 11354 heth der the:liseases, his'sentzastor,cand for us. 1389
- I assume-that;seally is not-in dispute----that it is:an j
ii 1340 awesome task. is - it not..- and' might he a sostly onef 3 ~ 1 1361 Nr. Stelle. It eartainly is. going.to be a lazgo effort. -I ~j 1343 do not:know that I would adopt the werd *'avesome'. It is: j y H E 1363.-going?to take a-gzaat deal of work'on behali-of the lisensee-q 1364 andion'ouz hehalf..I'believe thati-commitment to do the.uosk ) ~ 'l 1365 .has *.een made. As far as what tha cost of the activity will d ~ t -1366
- 3 amount'to. I zeally hava no say of judging.
\\, 1W1 -Mr. Eckhardt. A moment _ago Mr. Markey referred ~to 136al rosething-like_60 out of 70_ velds being found-deficient. I ~i o ,f 1369 understandLthose unze generally pipe ualds, things of that d ' ~ 2 1370 nature:'vera-they? ~ ,.1371 .MsWStallo. I;believe7they were stzustusal welds.
== ..li i 1373 Mr.-Eckhardt.- Caduelds?. ~ y y ..t;i A 11373 2Mrk 5'te11o. - No,-i structural? steel. $;S _ s s ._} [h ~ ~ ' v y. 2; je -- c-gp as.- e
- } q 4
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- Mane:LNZF367054 '..,,a 4PAGE!;
<57, ~ ,, ;fT: r u ~ -,3 n ;p _f. 'S. n * ~, m w x: ' c s ~ .5 :; ..137gs Mr. eEskhazet'.; JZnL addit' ion. toIthatk, therelaza ;.a. number tof f f .in . i . t ~ 'vc J ~ 71375 icadualiselsonalefluhieh?areinou embraced within'.thetoonorate.. ~ v 7 I'374 istzusture',jaza they not?. W <i 1._j - Y. .Mr,. Stallo. 'Th'e(veld ~deficiansynthatLMr. Markey' referred.
- 1377
~
- ^ -
i A J1374 tte.earlies uns uelds'that'veze-.made in:stzuotural'anterials,.- structural steel. ! The kinds l of. problems? that, are ' identified; l y, ~1379 1340 -veze' weld spatter',,that kind of1 activity which didinot; pass-M I the visual. That night mean velds will.hava to go back:and; ' 1341 1343 be ground:out'..1% is conceivable that there might he thej ~ j c t-I 1343 needLto_ replace.a. weld'if 'it.in'iact is deficient. ,1384
- The"ooncept of it being bad in taxas of havingito
- so in-ki 1343 and grind out the' complete veld and-zaplace it~does not.
, e -y I 1346 appear-based _ on whative have seen ' to. he - the_ kind of u g ; n!. =1347 difficulties associated with the. welds that uexe being ~ [ 1348 desozibedEsarliez. 1349 _Thereiwas a problem associated.with records for certain of .1390 the Cedualds earlier 'in the ' pro:leot-- which came ' up -ier f 1391 -disoussion. These had'to de'v'th-the xsoord process ~ i 3. v .[, 1392 . identifying-nhese certain Cadualds vere placed in the- .i [ l ^ ~ ' ] 1893 facility aftez:they mezaafabricated -theiexister.se'of them. 4 21394 These~is no need to h' ave!the.knowledgetas to uheza they
- 1 4
1395
- aze,Lonly_to.confism that the proper approach was;used in
- y u
2 y,
- 1394 isezicating3.he,cadueld.
H 1197 Mr. Eckhardt. -In. these 70 ' welds in which 60: vare found h a_ _+ + -1 O, Q & f '. 113940 romewhat defective,isome 30 of-those'you found zaguired j 'l g.- 8 g W, c ~ 2. +p a_ a w 1 T, '. w- .L a,. - g w n.- V J. u 1".- i yn~ l %.= j' L r wr 4 w: ;7.'.$w-
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- M.
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- M.,m,..NM;a.w.~.d a,99 %w.xe-meldingWdid.they{nst?; 1
- E } d n sp <g g; M Hz.iStelle( lZ uould.habeVt'olaskTKazliSeyfrit}if he, l ~ '%M: M1400 r EU., -. m., w' n ~l .c ,.. ~ ^ m,m - es x - $14.0.1 ihappensato1:haveltheJfigure?, $ "' o. u.m m, ai, U i, xx = a..., - m.~
- 5...
4. uithine. n. ~ p y P ;,61401 ,T' sMai.js"eyfrith rIsdonttshavelthats u 61 ^ .u 3, ' t h n.r lMrWEckhardt.17Z.thinktthat isifz'omitha. testimony <of(Brown J" i ~/ M03 w W n~' m~ ~ 01404 ;and Rootl'atltheQ proceeding j last; nonth.. i 4 y I v f. f hc - W:-1405
- (Letlaal.putLit this..u.ys.
You did find a:numberfof-Y. M y - s
- n,
-1406 -defootive3. welds 1that,couldihelaxamined.andLa;numbezLof~those %, ~ .y. c - 4
- j..r 4
s e / y '~ -'1407' < required 1,eit' herfgrinding E"down7 and : iuz.ther :: repairing ' t'he t ualdi ' -h n ~ . r. -,. a u;; w. +.. ~ +. 3 forizewelding s Jis fthatin. oticozzeot? :. M
- 1404 Q
r. L14. 09 + > Mr.1.3 te11. o.2 ?Yes,Jg'e'nerally'., c'. 4 s 1410 '.Mr.dEckhardt.'. Thuzah,are othez. velds which,are nou- ~y .1411 LinassassibleH some".ever. covaz~edLby conoratesfis:.that not u. 4 -1412 .correo't'?' T .n .1413 >..jMz;.J.8'te11o. lyes, someh.2.J the sitzuctural ualds?uould bevin w .= mm _- n.... f t inacee's,sible; locations which.could.mean they;ueza. physically- _, .1414 -~ t o m '1415 in sonorateistructures.- ~ Mr..,:Eckhardt. Whatican~beEdone to determine whether those 1416 A 1917 vezeiproperly;done..nou? s w ~. The1first thing we wantito do isLto:take'a; 1418 - Mr.. Stelle. -. l N ~1ookLatithe1:esultsjoi theizainspectionjef:all of'the.ueldsl i
- 1419 stoMake+a:ludgmentastowhether[th'ese;uelds.zeally, truly i
l 1420
==.. i ~
- -ozente'a'structuzal pzobleas# n termsbof.their integrity asf
- 1931 j
J1413 . to - uheze j the'yj aze. ~ s 1483 The; sample thatiis going toja.taken is obviously as:large y .3 j 5 . =. ,f' s :..w ? P g e a A p> g g a..m ~ . ;c ;:V , i C. ~ v i f# . a e: s. y l pl' ff. h. ~ ~ + ~ _'b: . f I:l.--L' L-. hy _ i
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- PAGE! /59'
>N m -l z% f.Q;~b,C V.W NAME s.S RIF8670500., &_,4:.m xM, y T 7.w m . m m;-- a % n n,6 ?I.;1 M P.5 7 " ' m' ? - u ' ~ -1 1 h M y.;w*:-- G.g.M143C MasJonebonnetake. JA110of1thefassassible-.. welds'areuto be-.. N g/gw w; L: ? x' ,. v e m '.:.m. ~ i
- ~ ts ?
s p'ylyg ~ 7 1435 [zeinspectediysozue"willleTable'to.makefa.iairly' sound m,w ,o ,,( w,- I .n Qq;9,, % g,~ + ' j;. d6 Uu'dgmentD as ;to'c uhat ithe. likeiy : status 1 of the. welds 1 that - axe. 1 .u N, _0, ~ ?1437 inasoassibie Jaze? tI't. alludgmentfisVaade ithat this, in f act, 'l r r,~ '. j ^s L '434 fisJquestiAnable;fzon. a^ safeityistandpoint',)theh,that' would f t'. 1 9; y, ~ Lhave te6heiserzested.'
- c 14'39
+ p? U ' 8 4, ? f .N,'- '1430 p' Mr.?Iokhardtk That would'he at.considezahle costi:IDthink
- b.
7 .\\ s'- 9 imeLeeuldfsays ithout equivocation,. san't us,s if the;uald is 31431 u n-
- ?9
, 1433 (anossed in.conozete:and has toshe shipped out.and zoweldad? w- - m, ~ 11433 I?do notIthink I ma trying :to ask you a question where theze-z*n _ 8 11434 is > not' more; oz :less<in agreement. _] 214'35
- Mt.
- Gzotelof Brown and Root Jsaid uhen-. it somes to Y%
s 3. 3.1436 Toonst,zustion,'-and I guete himr It is'oheapaz'to dofit 6 I i. F g.i,. 1937 zighty.the first time. It.seemslso; obvious _that if welds g .h,.;.; ' .1434 'havalto:be redone'andTsona.of those1uelds may not be .,J, . l /+ E 14.3.9 presently assessible and access,must be'obtained to6them, e '.,: -p' m 1.,. that.!,there31s-a-auch greaterToo'stiin doing it a second time' ~ 14.40 o w a *:~.i ,shanilt uould A to do 'it right ? the; first : time < 1
- 11441, y,-
u- ~ M\\- )1448
- (Mr.25te11o. 'Icould not, agree.more with that philosophy.
e wx s s., P ' 1443 ,? ^ LMr.-- Eckhardt.. Do you,also ~ agree,._as.Mr.;Grote states, y m,, - i, s -a c -y 1,1444 c that" reuerk c oosts iaze. massurable, ' that ?is, that f you can . L ,1x w %.. ,-n .*.~* _. ' g s O ~ _ f Q., E1445 fdetezaineluhat the2rouezksoostar,azevas opposed to[what it a? c fe v m ,t e. p', 1 4 h 41446 S,uouldThaveNoost;to hav,e-doneditizight?thesfirst' time? ,4.m.:.., s yf r m.y u,. 7, ,7 c. m. 1 s 4 g 1447 SMz M5tello.V lean ~ C&. 1, ~ R.,, m 'm, .p,'? ZMn, EEekhardty [If/pou believes Eat" rework!costafare" .q, 7e>,
- s s
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, y* M [ O[ JMAFqM RIFa67854 Q 'i 9'. i. .g:,. --.... Q i ~ A49 imeasuzeble and thatt the!failuze; to assume. the' presence of ani c @e @..t z s .a' s l, f ~..i.. -?- .?, f 'Eg. f ;14.101 :... r.dequaje f qualitF7 os ntrolqprogram 1sqa.reflectionfoi: 4,, . JIo,i e g~ ~ 11451
- missanagement EthereAtheniarises~a question:as to what:
- t. g r' m
y: s s .x;-.. - -=1452' extent #sh uldiz,atepa'yerstbenzithe cost.of; smething$that: ~, m. >c n m ishsuidihave beenJdoneDthe: zight uayf theifirste: time.y / y. ~ ? o - '
- 1453
, v. m,. yy y. i 11454 N; This Jis ? s' gues tion f_ that. Il as : very;/ son'oerned~ ' about-because .j ~ p.'9' ,t s [ 1.4'55 Lthe"; question;isab:Shell the ratepayers in theemanufastureioz: m.s. Es- /1454.in.the.makingJefJantatoais. plant: benz 'he zisksfofL p e- ~,, ls ', 71457 : mis's.anagementiand of. faulty' quality.controlcor-shouldHthat' / .c '.y.
- 1454
,e 7eost-beLabsorbed by the "atility?.yuzthermore,1sh'ouldithei y E 9 -" :1459 itility.:belsble?tolzeoovez;fzon'the contractor?thatinade'the d 11460 i mistake? the 'first' time?? All 4:E these questions -seen; to ne' / ,s- ~ [ .1461 ito befvery azueialI' social questions.. i V: 1 ^^ ~ inD. ~ ' ',' '1462
- I ma: asking;this. not -with respect just;.toitha' southwest
~ % ~ z.. V4 (1963 -plan.~. ;I'am net asking uhat:should be dona there.' some of-d s . s -e ,,, Oy-1 3 -..,, s. V/ 1469 ~ 7,< tw _e .',..t m
- 1470 ptheselsosial} questions.
~.j- ..s- ~
- r. g= '.. ?
-w - - ~.. enz.,Eckhardt,'that is a relatively ~ g.. c,x, y',. 51471 ' 1 Mr. E A,he arna. s n. ~ o ey __~.. I '*s 9, -t t, M, ~ -signiiisant> policy guestion1which the Commissienrhas ~ 11472 -7 1.,
- n. -.7. -.. v.
-) g-4 W',,7,. ' J1473 ipreviouslytaddressedlinia different context. In the past' .s c
- q y
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- +s P'-%~-
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k ?. W W I$ N f ? w [w. W.w % $ $~ ~ % % ? M W ? W : %, ' @m W; :?R? Y.n 0 . f &. y $ mh [p w p p - w ghh 3^ k( ' :.M#c' M g[. < g. .c N h; k m ~ 3% .sc w- -w n; ~.. QnW Sf&W,. ~ f t. L. W C ':2~ ' ' ~
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V. wf - ~. ~- iPAGEu !61> ',7 %,a? g @e.h f.w /...W N4HE*/MIF3470545 P n tj J. ,+u.w,, ---. . + c ppm.. c w;a, w,:w.v ~..m. n g..n+ a.-, m m m s ~-- - .~. ,y4 ; = 7s;g+t 474..
- . ~ -
r. r ?thet uoleaz:;1egulatoryl,comaission has...been-unablocto=zeach a 1 .. M '4 s w... - ;. -s x ~ ,) n;g~... ,... +...... .J O..gp e u... "s $n. 41475 lyosition oto pssy; uh:eze (any6suchloosts h oughtEto ibe t absozhed. - m - . x, w .n.- u t,. -. _. s
- / fl',
j1474. _ ' Whai ve?hapeEsoffar[donehisstojpoint'iout that;uhat(.y n 9 ^ .,.1._ s -..gn ,~. sym t, MQ s1477 }zatepayersfazeieuposed;tohis;ajaattez?,foxithe rat' making Q_; e .m. ...n.....,.. - -n. n, .~ c - ,4-y ossanisation C,-,the0utilit'ynoommissions. nWelidentify to3the f s s .' u[ - r '1474 l _x~ . ~ s' a ,_ ~ ,.? y. 6 ~ h. '11 4.i9 t utilitya..coaaEssions Cuhan :veitakai' actions against '.a licensee - d i, a s#w l '3'V - >...i .S .N" ,.g. t. ^ ( g ~ i 9 1430. % nd uhat3informationineidevelo,pb .y y ~ 7 T s a C o a la i s"s i e n 9h'asine'tTreached?a position'ar to;uhotsh'ould 7 ~ 5< - L1441 c 4 a n ~ i. .TC- - l? I ^ ~. MT l' "c "j :: -
- :1941' vbear; that: cost.'s I
.x y- -- ~ a
- 1443 Mr.-Eckhardt.
Clearly, cit is a mattez----it should be-~a: d t ~ 1944 : matter----o!EL gzaat 'sonoeza.- - I.JunderstandLit'issansatter of ~ '1945 .gzeat concern-inrthisaparticular: case to the Texas.publio' 2 Utility Comm'ission. They are looking into;the~guestion;now.
- 1446 y
~ ~ 1947 -I L think1that : giwes ts ar..axample 3efluhat; may exist ;in ( sexy. x. 7, a.)
- -1944 ' State.
.l .y This.is.a highly' 1449 Nouavez',Ethen is a problem:hore.: y w A, 1490 'tschnicalitype of operation.= Inthink:you know as.,uell.as I. q b I 1491 (do)that publio; utility commissions-frequently'have enough
- 1
- 1992 5 difficulty'intdealing with the. extremely sophisticated
,A (1493. knowledge: of -utilities themselves uith : respect to' ordinary. ' s.....'.... .te. .s t - iz'temaking V' (1494 a + y s 1495 ".When'usimove into aifield-involving this-very= highly, <e ~b . very'neu. area,.it:seems to se'theseEis an' itechni^aliandE \\ ~ t .1494 o .u ~ ,.t, l-b1497 ?spe'oial:dutylon-the Federal'6overnment to:look into these
- c
- 9..
[gue, stions 'and : aid Ethe; utility.; commissionsir 1fros thal. y: A 51494- ~- .w l,'e s. p_ z_ a.: y y. ,y
- .' T)
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- 3. -
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?.n - u w;7 >? W $ & f W $m Ll 4 d. 2 5 %.- [<l WW V 2.w ? ':,\\ % QW $ W?W C, Xa%wM+V m a-A ..., m %x. ~x ~a m @G f.f 7.',~ i + e ;h ". ' n 'lw <* c,.;/ - u, r ~ -- r,m mem,1-Q., ef wa a ww'":k.j: x -M t 'RQ '.h ' ' - ' +- ^4., _ Q ' M.- 1: A qL^ g y ', L.,., W ' n s" Q,L 2:y
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~ g' i^ .j;. y,{'*^ y- .f. s-e e.. %- va 'e Ah*#g**&m ' ~ by ^ ,l w 14S9' expeziencefohtainedsbyyyour..agencyL louldJyouLagrea$to 3 ;, J d;. - - m_ q < m g'm.y. ?:f1599 ltkath ' ~: <J.s 1;t : .q ~ 95g$y:<._,;' m r lW ^_ M1 n j 4f:_ ' my.) j' 'Q l ., [ 7150.1 M,.,J (Nak. l.Ahenzneb :IJpersonally lagree withsthat.itha - , f.,.,.,..,, '1 M' r ' + - 21542 iCassissiem6 as(Z tzied tofenyzess. has not;reachedea p w a a .w 3 ~ . ~ ,. m n I MV -$
- (1545..'sonolusion as7to M at levelici involvement me.oughtlto have-4@
3., + .1 _1 o - #" m .s, 1 ~* S V1504 linithe?matemaking., y, u h . ' 1505 iNzb EekhandtD ;That isf als_o; a. policy Tuostion that'~ I '"j ~ ., ~ .I 48, a ~ "{ h ;c .1546 **hink 4 th&s committiae i and TCongressineeds sto ' addzass. -- - m 4 N 1807 ,I,-fez omer feel;thatiualess;uniwork,out?.some policy in <p7 .<s y n. ithis 3senh ve. simply encourayecan1ex'tremely costly: '2 ~ if98 i f c .1509 development of: energy in:this:sountryLukish may be done
- l n
g
- 15'0gentzenelycinefficientlys haeaus_eoin:a; mad'racC toward n
,ish$aining/ energy)fzon.souzoesfdifferent from the traditional' D L1511 w ^ '[ k g 151'2 Jfo'ssilifue1Ssouzoes,@elmayffind;util'ities'andcontrao' tors 1813 . oblivious;tolo'osts' as longjasLthey;may. pass $h'at' cost on'to ?, ~ a. a '. if ~ v 3 -1514 '.zate p aye r s. ' .a m s q .c . If.Jitfis? passed 7 oixa':apayezslatt the same..zate all ;over-R t 1515 s 'r { s' - 2 .4 s 2,1 the:countryfand between differentfutilities, thaza is:no-lj 1516 x
- 1.
1517. skin.off theiz: nose 11f thL operations ~are. highly _' inefficient R w ' 'and' result?inianormous:sast'ovazzuns. That-16 the'e'enseyn I' F, -rf < ~. .. u 1818 1519 have'about;this question 71n addition.to the nuestionLof C, J152,0 l safe [ty. } %j g.
- 1521
% w> - _. ?caniyou give(us'anyfindication1;of.what the. commission is. 'g .. d M. i +- ,m n; i oingfoz:,:ylanning(conoeuningsthir;questton of the- + p- ,p. Q wp .1522 q n j - 4; m -A..- s. ...m %,,;$ / 1823 ire.sponsibility; fez negligentLactivity uhichjaay, result'in jy 3 s y.. yc y,; sw -<c+y W, mw s - u.r. ys. 3y =,y 1 i. '} s M.p$;.\\,
- ...r..l5 9,
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9.n w 3Mz,i-Ahearni..iAsTone'ofithecresults ofEthe zevieu of Three. f: N e;w & " W w. 1-
- - Q
.*,,._.J s 2 y, k4-n*ok . ? 1' '5' 3 4 iMilejZslan'db uef had" addressed shat' kind of ' action ought ue"' y.w v.a g ,. om 7 'J..<*. 1 C,,ligg7 m.to'. tak.e_' fin.izagard s to ; util'ity, commissions..He had reached-M n s.7 w I ~ ,a ,ENN.
- ' y_
1 a J R f,thekoo'nelusioni vex o' ght7. t'o,,at Pleast x indoss ~ of :any. actions ; ue ?
- f, ', d. ', ' '
'.1534 u t ^ S_ f Y 0 64-HV.. ' 51539 3take?uithirespe~ot?toJallisensee and~uhat!the?results:of'the? J 79f _'y .l .9
- v y _+
4 ~- 1 Mg c m OJ '.1530 ' revious : are.': s s V c \\ r 2:n s. s 'Z have7 asked the generalioounsellrecent19 to' address 11n; j 6 'f' u g w M1531 ..~.,
- 4 s
a. 4 the particul'azhinstance the sort;of' general policy 4ue'stion*, ~.. ~. ~ j 1 'sh' . ;1533 wg m ,,. + r_ -Q ~ N:
- .c,:of N, hat we ought to dolin the way of-.zegulatory; actions by C,'
l1533 n*- '1,534 <the}pucts.hthis" issue seceleratah,by.:Three Mile Island and _1 he m. ^
- 1535 1 Metropolitan. Edison in-its conoarns.
4 ~ ~ ~ H [Mr...Eskhardt.. Tha thing:I asJgetting at.is if the utility $,i 1536 J l V'4. g c1537 .may:makenaisontzaot1withia contracter-without bringing into-(;., JiE14 consice1:stior.!of;the tens of the contracts the Public. ? 13' 5 Utilities consission _or-the public, 'the result may ha ~ that 4 1 g a. k. 1530 M he contzaotor vill make'a31essez' cost estimate, construct J g_.
- l
mc '1541 -th'a ! p1' n't in' a: less : efficient :uay.in the ;1eng - zun, if.that + a ..,g y con.tzaot doSsEnot haw'eMto bear.thatresponsibility of"his~own- - 0 1543 .#a '1543 ; negligence.JThe utility moza or less in. cahoots..so to T 'L I FU 11544 LspeEk,Guithithi contrastoripasses:th_esa costs on.ito the 1
- rc. _,.
^ %W _'1545 <publio.' ' Ww (Itiseemsjte Eme $that'shoulk 'b'e ~a : Paramount.concernMto..your hbY, ' . 1544 ~' m v - ~ W@w@:; #g.w' g. .m: R' + 1 a T'. 1547 .. agency..i ..+ p. q p ~ p;;,, -1544 'f.Mai.fAhearnal Mr. Eckhardtk I:think a: Paramount;ooncern'to.: w w - n my}., g z: 1 tl 4 w... " a .3. m ~ 1 'S. p.;.~.r l, f ~ _,,, : ' s: , i ~ ~'w' . ( x,.r. r t c. ~,
- b y
n m ffh e;' . y$ ,. l ) y.fkJ .\\'/ i = a Q W ,fy,,u. f Fo. 9,J[.a &.,,. h' i ' ~ '\\ a ng , a - '. a; zu 5. -n . - [I 4 ' [ i-[, /ki) ,4 // (.- F g. v:m .c u , \\ N;Q O3e(.4( h % S$f, " cj :D ' f m ~, ); / i ,t ?g di79 v /.'- n "@k ..+ l 9 %* D r ? 'h.: -)a "F [N - Ws.1R,. h.'M g Wi ' M*. Ml $@% ' q ; ':"@i .e >G c - -. I R' 1. _ - , Pie C iM. q .;,'.-. s,.3 e sj._ 8,e L ,n 1 +q l r .;m-g( Qt s 4- .? l-' e _y 5 1 3 m
h h.hh;s:,nm: w.xx., i aw.h M Y,\\~b b [ 4.i,g M.SU$[ # [va@.m.. [n: hhk w e g IS Amm u wmv ~ w w 9 - r .o3 a~ W o.r: +3 - t 1 % ...fc s! % c e. s w ]g ( " w ,u s, c
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- FA qq
",!? VMANEsaNZF367050x _~ ~~p; " 4-n: m. .W. t gj..eJ.$. % ;.t : 4 n.y -. %",h' :. ~r. 2 .. ~ ~u .a Y@Vg e, M d15'49;'my;ageneylcistthat' plants.,3 i.di sons tzuste d, j azefo ons tzus te d,,
- u
,, h @. u~ -. < = - x.v, _ w .s n yw a w '. ~ ;, m +w. .c ,A -n ~ . ~.... M. 4- - %s1554 J eezzeotly ' andithent:ii i epez atedt es:st:1 cozzaotly. 13ur m, :S e e s. J \\ '
- i'M 1
v' w m o emz e" ? a'jfp(M F T j1851.: concern zes11yyha#tolbeit'o:3 ensure?that(tha jublic health! m. n
- f.-
[; $ae& J.,,. r 9., w r t_ . a r ;- j .9
- i.. - _
x+,. . i ~ landf safetyfisf protected ~.dThe naspeo.t c'f( uhat Lis c tha? mesiti S. ye hr n /t..~_ a1555 s e n .e
- +.
,,35 u
- 4..# 7,. m,
,m e g 3.. .y We ?.. 1553 Leoonomiofmeansyofrzeechingtthat fattleast?st the"present' 1:4. ' i, w ,a;[; e... +x 7 z
- g t.:
F i /, a1554 stime Jisn?.t aloono,lusioatthat.theicommiss'ionehasizeachadossa WE.. t ',. A, #,n. .a m x ~. c. ~. 'to(ouzfzesponsibility. ? .-11555. .d, 1 ,W o < at'it' ha m ~4 =1554 e Mr. EEskhardt.( ' Mke lisi ooneernednuithithat?n,. ' h',., - L q < *
- 7...
[ y an,- ~ ~ x,;p: p;
- [:f 1557 fyed'exaD iavellisMooncarnediwithlproducing; energy 3t a.
cp , p ~ y; k[ E-( k 1554
- zessonable,
- and ? economical, prios ? 'Is the-20E:consernau uith-A x
q
- y
- f
~ R 1559 -it?... t. gn. = 1560 Mr. Ahaasne.- I vould.'havaIthought,that M e Economio. D,, s ^,,
- 1541
- Regulatory-Administration in the'DOEJuould be a-moza 7
2.g. ^ ^ 4 !appropriateslocationifor that. kind'of.conoeza. J1561 ~ qm ,y i 11563 iMr.itokh'ardte JWhat1:consultationior'uhat: cooperation do-E iy.ou haveJuith thatfagency,rif any?, 'i J1569 f ,e 'J1565 b 5.. ~.d lf -l;7 ~, 1 !Mr.cAhearne'.i The11eveltof. consultation 2that-we haveewitK1 g a,o e. r y 4 % 11566 them. is? pricazily,finFaddressidg the" need-for-power question [ [ A .4 L: a - w! p. ' d '.- % -, ' 'l f.h .b". .'m 115.6.7 ,,inazegions:of the,countrys 'How much' power-is needed?. What . f / .) ,g .a v hf
- 1558 ' is 4thefiapact : on. a plant. not.meady ior a plant..-being-- shut.
p m .y ,s ~ c W s.W " - (1567 downt?. bN es .; 3 mg, -Thatfis just.the' problem I ha-a.. Who-is: m s
- .x, x
,1 5 0 c,--U Nr.o.Eckhard,t.. Ru ~ ' *
- a m
.x.h,, s 4157.1 watchin't thefstoretuith respectito. cost?:'. DOE'is pressingSas- <1 y ,;s> >...., Jf S s o no w w x x
- 4 r
k ~ .-. <,r%z ~ Your,agencyf{.
- f
@ a. <.f A M. - - ihard ins 4theyf canf,fozj uoreigenerationCof energy.. n- -l p y s. -
- "-- vf- +; w y 1572
- ^N
>4 ~ hs y 'p g g ; 11573 Eiis 7 eon,serned:. abouti gi. vf.ng?siss' uran, ceato Ithe psb,lici th d - w: 2
- v....
.ha,. 3 s, f.d^ r ~ A & A .3 t l,
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- .4%-
,j " 5 g_ y. gy ,Q' y. q (, 43 u + S y 3 p h .l'V NT Shk ? 'O N ,-[:W ^~el-n . Man, n- ^ " ' ~ o a}&pn NIDY %) ,cl. ?c&:f ;;h. n-1 3 ' '1 ~ 'A'l (. G' % ^ z 7 ';b., m ~.,., - ,.f.. u s v" o, m.% -1 f;y.Y;Q&?,j.m - s. 3., v s - ~ Q &%pt '.j, y Q ) j.% ' ' 'Q Q V m, < a.t S +: 'd, SR%Q,f& X) Jf gW.;)'i1 %.y., 7 }
- f
w kdwp.p W.n.MM.n.M # MqK, m.y~e.y9:MW ww m ,,s & ::: 9QWC 1 - xgn m..m.n n . :;w; - m y., m dym o. n n .. ypp ^, ,,. a m m. e g n @ p g g %g g :p '.7 p : m._, ;> Y, r ' ?c a Q~ pt.. 8 .:8 @a vy :QW', -. : g#;T ~m ' @y . wr, : -W:;-;Ug+ %.,mn is L + x^ ;; w~ - ~ ~ m, m -W: m wa . h uM Spr W 9.y) M 'b a 'in c. -Q ,*g, ' s ); :.,. a '- ~ > r 1 ( y;.U.:{ r 9 nw;:W.n?wg y o x L.n n .., ; w m ;g-. :,p m.2 ; n r c^ o., o n m .m y, 27 AGE)065 M : p'.. N,MAMEl.aWIyt6tesei a %3g V4'g,gyy - y g{ g 'p'u p y@} g ; L 1574 9 auoleaz? energyfisygoing,itoebe 5 produoedMin5 asafeiuay. ~Whoj ,J - n :.o. - w p m w [ikvat$hdhg15[thNsiso.za( '~ h^ g3?' ? '[g'575 , jn '... b p? ?K ,L,,
- 1876
~ ' :Ifunderstand Athat':.the ' Texas? Utility c commission uns ' a 1
- 4
- y N
q' y t
- g
- .)1577 N1anning[toTealveJint'o?thisfquestion;andfhave.afraportfon;*
s m .,,a -? ,r n 'l
- )
.-.he matterrand(that '.aisiwas?zeoommendedibyLtheizioounse'l.; i,, '4 nm, (1373 s g"t ?; ,t, i_ y s 1 + m - u y, ...e 'l s [. - 1879 ANoue'verNI undf.atandithat; hah beeE zeiao,tedEby;theLTexas: i 3 s-g .,4,..- ,s g E1.540 msetili,ty; commission.c lNerintendLtolhear.that questioniftoo.; A c a. QJ ~ "l1541 ~ m Ifan.very.every muchEconcezned(about everyone going %.11 .5,+f-i+% 1842 imell:for"more energy..:regardiess'ofcthe oost. ;ThatMisLthe a: g s -v a Joeneerni'I1have in'.this issue.: 1543 ' ~I hopeyy,ourEagency?and'DOEiand whatever'otherLFederal" , m [y " ~.1544 11545 agenoias',aretooneerne'd with the:problenjoanDuork;out:some
- l E..s
' ~ ~ 11546,means offcoordinating-yous= efforts in thisidizeotions, y vg, i ~ M~F ' 4 51547 ItJseemsitolime:ityis closely. tied Ao the. technical r 4 4 ) - 9 ,1544.;guesti.ons )thatJ;you; haw'e> raised?here. ft, - SM,rii AhasznaL -I'agreeJthatjthey1are v'ry much intertuined. s1549 i e -4~ ; c i,. ~ .1590 -AsLI sais iILthinkius ought)to.be sha'zingLouz information-1 D n. 9., '1591 =ufth'regulatoryioommissions. a ~.. -.... '... a T 1.592 !I wouldfhave,:toicomment that,.us,Itthink underlie many of., r is. m. h 3 Mr.ile.g'sf guestihns,layf agenoplis not ?n'ozmallyi. M. ps. Y nt 1593 7, ( <- .;v. - ,'1594 Nh,aracterized9las ioneJpe. ll 'mellifor: producing - moza c anergy. v-5 .,L i,_ _ _ _, .? e E 4, 1595 cMr.LEckhardt.;,We11W I:uns not'necessarilyfzaferringsto' ~ 4 n..... ,,3.
- w 11596 Tyouzingencyb.?..Ifthink DOE has!b'eneinolihadiin that e
.g aa
- m. -
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- 1597,o dizeotion. N perhaps i this ris t a : syndrone fof t out _. time's.z y
s 2- @tt< ' n. 1. [ LNa bAhearne'.J IL401.believe that?the; utility; groups', the +r s 1 01%24 W. < e. s-wg w - y-, .1.- .s o 3-5 , 'l . *.* F f %.. f'N hG ' a- .. [. ; ~ ,Y v( 5 .,n w-t t 3 W ;h N &, k.? v ' l - ,t te <.m .. ~ r 'h -u.. h M.S. < t' J.$ -F ^ W i t %W .D~ ' p' d ,iO,< ^ s t w.* W N,.-c.L s g,', -y,.-- 4 i WN., 1 x g, j.- 1 .l K y n.:C %: t " .LM A ' ?' ,, w. v ~ ..lfi % e 5 mlsMe - t w , j" '..h +,, $' lW 4 6. ~ Y
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s '6 41; sM6Z).1W JNAMEsfEZyt47050 W x. '.FASE - e ,: + w n. ,- wm. u n.w. [h{[xy ] [ 11994; utility}somaissions,Jazejthat'. places}th'atjthalpublioVshould;_ n1%W Wh. ~ ..+:> y h ^ > ^ J.s,71400 jb'e:lookingJfor thalbalancing'of:-Je~ost and fneedi, t They aza > ' t r' W w&p Q1401- = y ma ' s' l-r _s 4 c. :. L. @; p+ p[s.%W;4 deally}zesponsiblevior; making Esuz's 'thatiratapayersraza only1 9. n. ,x. v.- 7 $ N;f. 51402 (periArdtherlanduntsithatla$relappz'opriatAk w ~} ( i, m 2 gs .V g e ~ R %. 5 : 7-y T^; ^ x W 1603 N1r d okhAzit., 6Idave'beenTinTaist5tellegislaturefforg ~ % Mg 2
- m. ?.M, +
.. ~ feightnyaars...0f'couz'se,ivefonlyihad oneTutilitissi s + 2% v < *E1404 ~ W~ - Y r: w_ 1 'b ' 0.c l '- g,J.%'R '. ~," ' somaission fin? Texas:- sine. iIf hava 5.bAen:;odtl,o'i(thof ~~.>.<'S 3 '160. e s. w w e z, ~ '), - N, 11606 f lagislature.q but if ox/ many $ ye azs sfex as.!and ? one : 'o thesi state '. 3 '.. (- %z. m, (-[..... It'607 Euede thE1only:StAtAs that;did:not have.a utilitle's-2 m q t N .oomaissions With..respeo.t tojay.,ounDexPariance, I.thinklI; b 1604 ~ ? -1609 ;ean;say7,1t(isE extremely l difficult '.fozT a? State sagency1 to deal. 1:.7 ,a 11610 + " .t, ~.. L
- with the kind
- of econom. io units.,. the kind sof ~ business.. units,
,T ' C'- (they.fre.quently[have to: ideal withjuithout s'oma~hely1 rom .A I ~51611 f a 1 p a. a Fef ~" c1612
- those;uhofhave empezie'eainstionwide.
n T" ake',. foriinstansa,:ttheiproblem~uith the AT&TJand t'he=3al'l-q a p_ 11613 4 s y[ (1614 c5ystan.xAL'public utility [ commission is.punF vith respeat to-1615 LitsLzesouzoes as: compared to such factors.. 31 f 3 1654 c'Aen va get into(guestions that.have to:do. deeply with) n e. ? ~ e a J v.Q = publio/ utility. commission is a-016.17 '.tachnologic all advios, J.tl y< ~ ... 3. - +. pf:.. - s 1161[0 3abygeospared atolthe utti.ity Ethat they aza: daaling;uith.sind' qM : z .. d... 's ye ympazed3tol afla'zgaleontzse.t[that '. operates. woziduida' lika( [ .c g f. 4 . '.W 1619 s , _ ~ - ..i., 1620 ?Brouncand? Root.- s -? - E,. ~
- 'g-11621 NBon',t youiagzae tnatfi,s'the_ casa?
~ m ,y -m -4 0 r.[Ahearne., 7 don?t have:enough detailed knodledgefof: -g , w =.. f -.3s !1i22 1 @3 ft 1w w. v. .g p : ( ( _; . d, 4 2 3 31iility=t commis's'io'nsito i knou ' Whethat - thatiuo'uld'-be theicase, .pl n e 'w
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L,i S .,, '.J. E m 1634, ': buttit? sounds ? zessonable,'? uithi the;possible : e.xception c of:- mW c_- - - 2 w m. :R h, " n ' ~. " - - -.. 1s5vesy;1arge.f W t/ pf b._.;F - 11635 ". California? s somaissio' *uhich.. ~v -<i.. 3. ..:2,. N=-# n
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~ ' ...... -. - ~ -,, - ;s t.. c-s 3'-, -,.' ,Q. j':.-', "f, W p. " y,~ ~, - ~~ C1636' <: p ,, f Mr.pEckhardt.9LMhat;about(Mzl.7Kahn'sJshopdthattis'- pag g#, - s.,s c .s .).,___ S 's 1 <. q s D con.cernediv,ithLinflation?:;soi.they7oome into:this-uestion e1 h,.c~ 11437 b ._,..,.2 .m, r l _. _v, s._ ,.. : m r. .cf.s? O %;. r 11.634 Jinfany way withizespeet?to.zates?ffDofyou havaEany. ~ s w y, ' s
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v C DE,. ~ 11439 J. oensul. tation?, - '1631 .Ms.;Eskhardt. Thankiyou, sir. s.. ~ 1633 LMs.' Lent?' ( fvi ~ 1633 t tMr. lent.: 'Mz/ chairman,-I would like to yield to
- e. ',, s y
./ 11634 cRepresentative MazMay.
- ^
s ,1635 '" sMr.fMarkey. <Thank you~. I have.to testify before.the -9~ .t a .c, o- . Rules Committee. 11436 m w A16 37, -I-aatteing -to start: by noting a Meusuaak1 story on - the. g, ~ \\ 4 \\ 4 11634 N Szoun;and Root" situation. in'. the south Texas ; nuclear pro: leet. .f. hf
- 1639 cThey sayy w ' +=
11640 a- - Meanwhite, the'MRC rep. orts-the. inspectors'gotriittle ~ 'V 2 V 11641' qupport?f'romBroun-and: Root'sLmanagement. In January. If. ;.[ w.. ,.! inspectors;uerazlectured on th'eiz,rols'in holding down oosts ~g,, y j1643 n.
- . ) +; 1
,isn'4?'meetingischedules. Brochur'es zeiterating these. themes
- .di 1643 m
F* - ,n y p% ' ,o -tc '.ueza printedrup:and; distributed in. essa the inspectors-Q c1644 py d, m. + m,6_45 : nee'ded fa f reeinder. ' '- "1
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,W.,- j' ',' L 7 116.44 The Tuastion:is..'really=the' story of a isilure of the m e. n' -1
- 4 5)i _ j
~ ~11447 Auslity.Joontro1~;prograalatiseuth Texas:which could:be j y 9;. a :. y r T M,.- 6 epeated;againfandJagain at other nuclear powe*fylants:now q s 11644 nm,, a: ., b, _ + l (:- L, m de sllgy o.. lK 3 y :p ,y
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. l. b. ~ WMk OihWL^%& ~ kV ' Ju,,' -W %m$,g,ofNAllE8]EEFS$79503-s.y _.. : : x v ea m y C,W, b j J.. a.. c.n. s,gw,. 'j ~. 3 ~ %y eg: .G 11649 Sunderf construetion1 1 ~,....p u :.:e, " lays; adds oo'stiodezzuns Jare - a poniful incentiv,el. to[ 3:P L z :. sp y h 1 y x -. - y@. ?t M S ?:g iTimeLee ,;w un. y n y, ~..i. , [< >m ~+- ~.a L -.;c,. 165I J t the :architeot-engin e 4xito - .q _YJ.fethe;utilitymzthe~oonzaotorcz., i }l % yu L k. ,[ _ J* L . ' ' ' +, .'.l 1412 l Esubv. ext J theizf gualityd as suz ance " e ff orts.. c 4 ~ ~ g l1653 'I? anloonoezned, t Aak these is 'an inherent conflictiof. x - . ~ ,9 m^ 1654 daterest {inJ the ipsesent' lsys tem' 'of Tz~egulation.. SzounLandl '1655 .. ~. .g ':RootLamployees sinspecting Broun and ' toot workmanshipipresent. u n + ~ 1 = 7 C
- J [.'
L1656 Lantensay1'efoifthisfinherent'conflist:of. interest.,There.uill s 1457 l beTaCpoueziti15 temptation to-out corness,: to out quality.. -It 2 i y ,:r. '1 's ~ N n 11654 is f)unreasonablestotoxpectithat parties'vith some conflict of ~ / ~ m. v. w 1689 Jinterest?uillsbe Misilantrin maintiining a'alose:uatch on . 1660 ! s af ety-related. con'stzustion ' guality.. 1661 Itan notisatisfied that under.the present ze,gulatory s-isys'tenJintwhichLeualityLeontrol zests' entirely;in-the h' ands v 21462 ,s 21463 *of thecifoonseatthat ue.canJsuccessfuily extinguish the -1664 : temptation.am}onr]some111oensees to out' vital; safety cornazs d s ~ E 1865 iduzing;oonstzustion. 1666 "I.'uould),like youz responsai nr.:Aheazna and Mr. stello,. to ~ e thejfollowingiproposalt-M,.
- i1667
~,. s o ..w-11646 rSiould[the-MRC assumeizesponsibility forfquality assurance li m. u e,... ,1669 (functions iat 4 nuclear:~ plants ? ' Is's redazal'takeovez of'the. -l ,) 1 .,,,.SA:programethe1 sole ~means byfwhich.the'MRC can truly. _y 1670 a ~
- p "f
-11471
- guarantesf theiguality ef. reactor constzuotion and ~ ensure jl t
H 1672.,t. hat',tha.SA<functionsfare independent of..other plant m, .T. ~ ~ ,,W {1673 Lyriorit'iesLand establishsa systea'by which the utilities c o s ti gj j N, j yl Y.. ~ ,.// 4 7 i .s. [' .'i .F '._N "t*!m i4 ' (".1 s 5 j M.M $ r }J a
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fr g ti + s. u -, =, J') LpAGEl <69 .$ ?( N 2 / +. _ y, gy yy p g:.3 . ; > p, : y,,. y c } N,p g u,dWi ' 21674 Teen 4531&nsMeeTthisiFa'desaliquality( assuranon ? psogram' in7, th ~ 4 ,~S.':'..: n,. n c,p,- j,, % ".2,, ,..s .., - -. ~. W .f % . - b'? e'*lssaa ? mannez 4that::they:l ouzzantly s pay s f or ' theiz ; guality; . : M s e " W, A h v ~,L M,.5 p 1675 c p. c 3.M ? *. ' ., ~. 5 ';., 1 ' '.~6 gj - g.1674 1ssurano n""ifises?E. ki ', F. , o' n ' p - 'h ^ r ~. w: ~" s ,y,f
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- Mr.CAheasne.;SHz.?MazkeyW fizst,'asfia'.~as the;pointMyou..
PJ "Y f1677 y ~. :. ~ .z ~7 " . 4[1674 7'
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'+4 4 meNe3.fromithe Meusse'h story,EI/thinkiyou_uill'also. Wind-W: Q. e x ~. i i 4 (A-q MA, e 11479 - thetiTues ienalof Lthe tites %thats uns. liste4: in.ouzf notice of ~ 3 J ,[ y
- u. n.. ',
c 5 [4 ~' '[' '. violation andh. order totthe company.7 That:uss oneioi'the >, - y .~,
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~ h >'~ ... ~.. -. ,J, (1641 Jonast11 teas?thatsverweze-ivazy concerned with.- + - + M*:.o .n v, 18621:
- Hz..Mazkey.)EI do not'have'any'pzoblem with youz ability N <~
n ,c r .? 2, _w ~..._. _ iT ~ ' {.:. e.
- ~
- 1643 sto identifyptheN.yzoblem'.. My'. problem-isiuhat you do after-O n
.. ( .. blem. '1684 .you" identify the pro .i
- 33
- H 1685
,Hz. Aheazna.: JItunderstandMthat. 1 .n j ~ '1684 JMsJ Markey.. 7 hat;is whatLI an asking. Mou that you. 1 y ~ m ~ .i1447 Cidentifyjthem,Euhat(are ve_goingLto do about them?; s c ..Mr. - Aheatne. .-My ansuez vould.be. no, not f only - don't I; '1488 L y . -j 'l "] .. believe'that is theyonly usyl, but.I do not zeallyJhelieve '1649 j ~ t ( 6 that tuould beza; good-way a7hatuwould;1a av_e,tha(11 cans se - r 1690 n e, --5. f1 thenLto.concl'u'deithey.did:not have tha't[ fundamental: P ~ 1691 } S^ ~ 1692 Ezesponsibility to ensuze that the guality' control was'done. a n s' e >r .u'> + i 7 1893 f adequa,tely.s g 3, -s thatithe Fadezal Govaznaant fi.6 9,9
- IEdoinot have tany great hiini Gs
. c bN, r' ..v ? 1695 Loanfautomatically:beitheEbest.at'something,Enor that a .~. a ~ h~ =1,694 7 pub 111s wzg~anksa, tion aan,.becauAre many o' +; f'our licenseessaza m - ~ c - - --[. N...,. -L. -f.s,. M%O f 3,. - - 1897 ;pu.blie;organisatier.s'.1We.have problaas with' utilities that- , 7 3... c. + :.Q W.2. ..ai T1498,$are?zunf,b.[ public organisations : lust as us hava problems u sn e i ,. a,4 ._,1 - x .+ w . sy v [' - ",h '. g ^ 4 .2'a l p b.4 2., s ...'.x- ,.,..y-.. '-1. t 4 .R j w iA..
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iM x f_. - M " - ~, _ : ~, = c, %.- w+ v.s g - n.; m 2;cS.& m d sR W'.g m: ' M.n;g;r. r- + o , T an. ,u w 4 m m:: v .:, s Q m o+.m 0 w 1 ev P _.7 u @6 n m m. 9%,t.3 e, w,a. 7e g<
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,70 p., y s ,2 y s ,v ~ ~*n ggs 't1'6,99 4mith; utilities Ithe' ; aze,'sua byJ private ~ organisations'. 'hw,;- .y (,..b t hym ug. ;y y. q,. KhR 11794 ' >,. x /Nz~.i Markey. Q Mr.D stelle ? i ~ .a s
- p. m ; ~.,.
...~ ...( + O A iti -.~1701 ' !.Nz.fstelle. "ZLeo?not.think the yederal Governmentcbeing. J ~ n w. ~ a ..s -s i 7' #
- r(1798.iavolvSdLueuldjallou_me to oo'neluderthat the product.that; g
39 -.1783 Joae produces'isine'eassarilb batter.or less'sostly. The ?, ~ ~ ~ i
- 1784 ;ooncept?uhezaEthe'NEC,Lto-use 'your earliez vozds, becomes a
. fl .4 3- >( c1705 true watehdog agency and assuzes that the licensee fulfills- - -1 {' ~ .:1706 his: zesponsibility ;in constzusting 'and opezating.a plant 'of __m ? 'the7high quality titat>it must be is'followed, but'under)no: .j s ~ l - 707 n, ,_.d. j oizouestance would I evez.uant' to get to a point where the' >= '1708 [ - i709 qualitylassu anoe~astivisy;of.the constzustor-himself ~
- /O isomehou_fallsfout of the picture.
17tt The proper;uay,for tho'constzustien to proceed is such o l .171tL that,.as.uas noted-earliez, it is' built zight the first time e This means that the very. 1713 -and'that'no zeuosk is needed. '1714
- sotive,' dedicated, and energetic commitment to doing:a good x
~~ 1715 job 'in constzusting it must be. built into the constzuster l ~1716 'himself...No really needs.to have a system to assure himself j + f L1717 that1the~ quality of the. product-is built-in the first time. i y '1714 Therefome..no matter'what system is.shosen,1you need to rely si - s W-g 31719 'onithat system-asebeing a' good: system.to beginLwith in'the n 11720 : layers'of' independent l review on behalf of the licensee and i ~ 1721 i the. MkC. - 1 q m-r
- Mr..Markey. I' doubt there is.theLyzopez. safety incentive L1712 P
I1723 built:in'to the present structure.. I think the confliots'of ? l ^'/ 4:p. ~ Ly, i
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- ^.
'll.. t_:f.i ~',,, f y[p % +: ~ l PAGE1 }.71/ Q MANEssNZF3670501 1 .s . g~. i that..this Brown and Root 1 33 s 3 - J17,3471 interest 'ame (so"ohviousi: so patent,
- y J
.h &1~ -1735
- situationJean
- heJzeylisatedjaeress<the;sountry.
1 c. -s-1 x, i:1736 JZ thinksthis1is uheza the'realoestenseGin-depth'ooses ,' ; l from. 'It would 'so'aef.dzon Nuclear. Regulat'ozy' co'amission? 'l 1737 n h E' .[' r 1734 ' oversight.,
- ]
4 { -1739 J. ' 1 Ds .The;izonical thing:vould.he.that.not only would'.it s '.inszesse safety, but it wouldiredu'oe-oosts. In the long xun l1730 , e .c .'1731 !sather than having/to:sofbsokxand do it,over,again right the y 1733
- seconditime or third time,chuilding in additional millions R
51733 -of dollars uorth'of costs. us would have been-penny viss and i J 1734. pound _ foolish <in not having instituted this kind of' program. 3: 'perhaps the sooident-uill not occur haze, but I.think. 1735 f 1736 inevitablyf ve: are < playing. a game of nuclear-zoulette. It c. 1737 sight-not be this plant, but saanez oz.later there is going. g h 1738 I o beLa plant ubere the confliot of tinterest and the lack of t ~ 5 4739 .real. safety Mesuranceslare going to catch"up with somebody. -We vill not have had 'a whistieblouez within any one of these ' 'M J 1~l41. plants-that brought out. attention to it. We vill ultimately. ] 174P 6 Las society'hav.e to pay a prise for it.. I thiv ithe nuclear y 1743 ' industry uill.have to also because.theiz~ day of accounting \\
- l
+1744 is seming unless. theyl aze - uilling to step. back and necept- 'i s. -1745 ' these - kinds !Joi astions. -l + Thank.you, Mr. Chairman. v_ ., w =" -1746 '1747
- I'thank sou'two. gentleman.as well for your testimony.
1744 Ms..Eekhardt. Mr.:Lant? E i- ..e s q s. ,,, Ud '+ n ^ .? a ..n,
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- 17,49 - ]
a 39 1750 Chairmaailhearne,'Iiuould like.to'get back'to the. plant; j 11751 iuhieh oonoezas me,rthe'so-called shoreham plant to be. t, t1752 ^operatedibyfthe?Long-Island. Lighting-company.. j I.as told by the'Long-Island Lighting companylthat the: H 117.53 i .i 17.54 iShezahamiplantiis~now aboutft0Lto-90 pezoent' complete. It 1755 lis.sobeduled[to defin-operation.in enzly.1943. Thesplant .I h -uill:saveLabout Sumillion barrels of OPEC oil-annually.for . 1756 1757 LILCo which'is now.:as I~aantioned' earlier, 100 - pezoent ~ 1758 dependentLon' foreign oil foz electrio_ generation. q F 1759 . you every yemz that this p1 nt's-opezation :is-postponed it . 1760 adds:betueen s200Jand $300 million to its total prise tag. _1761 In-addition, Long Islanders would have/to pay _about s300~ ~ T
- t 1762 million more each yeaz for the-additional oil-that would i
1763 havetto:be burned if shorehascueza not on-line to displace ~ 1764 that oil,- according to.theiz zaports. 1 g [ 1765 I know thatlyou are not prepared'to respond about,.this C e 1766 particular plant nou,'but I wondez if us.oculd hold the ~ l 1767 zeoord open and~you:could give as a little report'or give a N 1768 lzepoz+ fst: the record..on what is the st atus of that-shoreham.
- s -
1769 : plant and uti t is holding things:up, whethez.it is moving
- 870 alongs and so forth?
/ J 1."71 ; Mr. Ahearne.- Certainlyi1 would he glad to provide that. .I J. '171 t i : Mr.* Lent.' I appreciate it. y '1773 .Mr.-Stallo..:as:ILunderstand it, the Nouston Lighting and ! Ip ~. ,L^ .l ' - li ~ y. e s ~ -)
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?*s ,NAMEt.{NZy267050' /7 -PAGEi 7'3 ,3.# m f,1774! Tyoues Ihad never:buil,t op' contrasted for a~ nuclear posez-i 6 c ,i Q' ,s . ~. ~y. ..p i1775 ~ 'isoility #beforelthe south Tomasi pro'$ects 'is tthati cozzest? ' y a w y 'l g .177g my. ~Mr. i Ste11o.1 :Yes','six. - 7_ . '., ^ P,, *; -: - 31777 -. Mr. '. Lent.... Nou'many'.df thesecylants hadlBrouayand'RootI i 9 e. _0_ V' 11774 ebuilt-beiese?this'particular one 1779 iM.[Sthllob(Theoneotheznajor.nuolaasplant)that'Ilas J a .l L ~ r1780 aussaLof11a:this!. country 1is Comanche... Brunswick---- o m -t-y L1741 -Mr.'Ah'earne.-.But it-is not finished. ~ 1. .-g s / 'Let me getib'aok'to the thought I had. - S; Wf,
- 1742 Mr.'Stello.
i iComanche' peak'is a'iasil'ity ouzzantly also.undez..
- 1743 y,
~ 1784 ' constzustiAn where" Brown and.Roct is the constzustoz. They a-1785 'also were involved in th'a Brunswick facility:which islin J ~ 1746 ' operation.. 4 1787 ~ Mr.'Lant. As the-constzuster? y D1 J,< 1788 Mr. Stallo' -Yes. -These two come to aind'.. W ' p: <-i g 1789 The: unique featura in' south Texas..it f whaza Broun-and'RootK. g. ~ ^ 1790 serves : both as tha ' constzuotor and the azahiteot-engiE*ez.: e E
- 1791 It'is my understaadiny.that is the first time:that they have n
- q
-1_792 perf ormedrbotli. functions. => .t x1793 .Mr. Lent; -coulduyoufaxplain why the"MRC' allowed..the. 1 M. _1794 partnership of tuo relatively. inexperienced entities on'a a Q- .: billion dollaz-projaett.
- 1795
.c m~ -1796 ?Mr.-Ahearna.' Mr. Lent,. the zagulations that us have. at. W< ..imast.ouzzantly,"do,not speak to the intezzalationship. .1797 pn 3...
- ~0 ~98 ibetvean taose;organisations but rather haze are the. sets of' m
~ 17 Em 4 -~ y g.... * ,/ ,.4
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,n r y.,_ = " -/C ' - 3 Y t pASE. 6 741; 9, 3.a , 4 NAnts'NIF247'956; 99 t s e w 4.. so _v m m' c e f,17995:zequirements)that)aust?)e: met 1whoever isTthe ?; ~ m ~ kn r .i n -. 'iteet azehitest-engineerJuhoever:is the lisensees-whoeverJis,the; +. ss a ~ U jf. - :1441
- constzustoz.
=i u ~r ",D L1408 ~yor example,:with:zogard.L.to,thF. gualityJ-oontrol?assuzanoe hsysteal.that has i oibe. put inte..s plaise,:. ue'havel.-not ibean : able. t 11403
- [ - -
to: zeech :the sonolusionKthat: it is: only. if you have. that. W -1404 ~, y . 1405 kind ofLseparation-ean:you_ provide ~that kind:of a management-1;a - i d ,,.-1804 stau'o tuza.J.: As I.sesponded earlier.:one of the' things 1that' u ..L,. 140*( (uefare nou-' reviewing.anot driven;by south: Texas"but~ ~ e g 1- .1404 actual 11yfaziven.by.one of the resultsLof1the Three ftile' o s y,. 1809 nIsland'-investigation..is to zeviou.uhat: kinds of.ozitaria; n: 1810 fought'tolhe in p5ase'for the~ design, constzustion,-and c -l m ~ t y s1411 .. operation of'the power 31 ants.. E 1812 JMr.'f.ent. - What,do;you.lo'ok ior in"a' licensee?- Don't you .a ./- 1413.flookLior'expezianos? JJ ., yy a l
- 1414 )
ftz. Ahearne._ IIn the=past what-we*had looked fozLin.the-e j K 11415 [lisensee was.a commitment and:a proposal that they vould j ,q neet rall, of,-thec zequirements..of :our regulations.. I think-j 1816
- b. b.
1817 that we liAdinot~placed much, if any, esphasis.upon n, S
- n -
- .1414 experience. 'That;is.-one of the questions that ue aza.trying; 4
-.1819 Ito understand as-a result,of all the things we haveClearned- .c d _1820 fronizaviewing the sooident. s f W -. h A, 1431 Jyez7esamplev..is it necessarily4true_thattany.. utility is. i s/ 4 -tett going tolba'able tn1 develop enough technical understanding ( V 71423 ';to. operate'a-nuclear posez plant? _1 ,s + [g. : h 6
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. A. S s fgl, a M m '374 3.1485 :.toibeldone:.byjs' separate partyLaitLgether?, - r s s .f 9 F Nz.EAheazne'.::When'you'say ?'ought.to bel,Nthat would. r s s 1834 c - 4 -d ,Px.* fasan ;ai refuizement. Myself. persona 11yinoz the commission 1as-w[, _.f i Jh;, ' ;- J1427 ~ - w u.
- r 1824
'a commission have.not zeache&ithat.conilusion. :Itais; M ^' wg
- st we1have nou zecognized' we have{to lean 5 e
.eextainly itut,, <1429 v 3 r,. ~ t 4 1830 _auch hardez oniouz;zevie's people-and.1therefore_,Jonlthec' <wi ? a Ms. i 1 g-y n. 1831
- licenseefto(guaranteefthat there isisuffisient: management'.on I
1832 the licensee's part'of the quality control system.. 4 m 9 You.have'.;these - situations uhere; plants. are - 1833 - Mr. Lent'.- 1834 constzusted by TVA and1 Duke'wheraithey.do the whole things y .,i ~ b -1435 -themselvds.. Is youzTempezience..therai they do just'as. good a. ,f 1836 job.or even a better job, where there'is the total ~ package?- ~ o ~1837 Mr. Ahearne. 'I willidefez in a moment to Ms.--Stello. m - i(a 1834 MyLimpression:has'~been.that.they-do'a bett*z-job,'but part
- m..
sof L that is :not 'jun because -they ~ do the wh 1e. package. They p 1839 w e c 1840 .aze both large organisations.uith many nuclear plants with a, ['. v. s1441 lotlo'tLpeople who. axe. experienced-in the constructionsand u,
- K
,' ~ 3 1842 design.. s .~ i 1843 Mar Lent.- You4 do3not have.this problem with conflict of;
- , a ; -
m ~. r
- 1849 interest that Mr.-Mazkey.uas talking.about earliez because u.
r} y, Y, . 1843 :.the: same people 'are :looking ovez~ one another's' shoulder andi, ~ iq*: w c1444 ?the' quality. assurance.and guality control functionsiare. ynkl' l 14.47 fulfilled;by that.same entity?. 9 4 1844 Mt. Ahearne. -I.have,not noticed"that,'but I willTask Mr. 4. < h.y e p ( Q; ~ ..). Q, s , h:_ 8 i s ,. (f O t.' s 7~ v r Q r L f.f Y^ ~,.., ,3' t'% ,,..,,. ~, '. -f. y s _ ~ ^ .rf l $r p f ', N [& A' gh3 [ ' E f'f,' ] U} : T y ] - -y r, un, g m a.; ~ n x.
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a , x + nw , cc c N 9 N.x"1459 iEstell'oMuho'is'moreiheavily?invo10ed. ? g s,, dh $y.f.'gl > ~ 1-4T '2 ~ 1 s \\q $ - ,.?, e. '1450 !".i.iSte11o. InizesponseltoKyouz;first guestion,,I guess!I. 'H m. ~ o ? & g? %. v .. L' L L _ . l ? [ ~
- NM r.
11451 Luiu,izainforJe~ uhat ChairmantAhearne-has said.t. The" ; 3:- -a ce&S2 ' experience Jthatitte1have: with th4 u'tilities, who have y s,.......,., .,,,d .l + u y., V~ l-1453 geziozmed,hoth?the..ezahttestLand1 engineer: functions.as v 4 0 sy e ~ ,s. e. 2R -145$ na'sitheco'onstzustion2 function have been(etual toloz.chettaa ,w . - yz. 4 -1455 ithealothezifacilities,naaybeJfoxxthe'most'part better.- The. b f 1456 leons_tzustiou hasLgone along~.saoothezJuith feuez pzoblems. 1 s -~ [The Toon'oeptstkat there-is : a oodflist? of interest-on : behalf ' [m, 1457 y >offthefoonstzustoz building.a $ob.says-thatcthese is[a ~ ~ y,?t454 U' ~1859 imachanisaf.somehou that isfbuilt.~in thatisays he somehou is teuarded idih'e'does a poem :loh.; I do'not believe that. I ((j -1460 7 1861 zeject the-notion. s ~1464 s I.think;they aze'in; business'to.make money-and in order 1863 *-foz:them to;make money theiz reputation as a constzuster as/ 1844 -vitalito them. If they do shoddy work or if they don't get y i' A 1865 a patject-built properly..I-believelit is going to hurt them -1866 whose 'it will-hurt most and they. uill ise an unsuccesful Y ~ 1867 oo'an tzustor. so I think~that the ine'entive is for thea,to 1'464 -ia fast. build a good yzoduct and try to do that.the first' - 1869 time. So I don't believe there is,a conflict of interest. 1 z. ~ 1870.I docaot.see evidence ei that.
- 1871 Mr. Lent.
I'do not knou why you did not make that e ~.1471 %zesponse to Mr. Nazkey.W en he. posed some of his questions. h i1475 --What you are:saying now, as I understand.it, is that when-a-q ' NC y ,y ~ l _{ _g p@ .u, '0 '. y' ;,, ' L +- a
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~ ~ m e + 3 -. Yy '(1874eilioensee acts iniall-threeoespacities----IVA'andjDuke---- + s /p : 1 O f-i 3 ~ $;m.v;' g'] h+ 1475-operating (asj1ioensee,~azehiteot-engineez,;andiconstruotor, ~ u. .7 c1
- J 1.
cIsethat uhat you are; - ~ ..% g1876 3yougrea117 petithe'best'end-produet?. . c.- r- ~.. , w+. .y_. e J1877 saying,2 based on'your. experience?
- k...
y i \\ Mr. l Ahearne.
- Mr k&en't', :let me answer : ior ' Mr. : Ste'11o" one: '
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- 187.9 of ithese. peints '.. Ne meu1(..probably not usat to.say this. I
~ i 1444 'have loundlin'many> forums.it is difficult to<,ansver-Mr. m j ~ c r;
- 1441 Maskey.' No
- 1 sus 11y does:-not Lgive you time to do so.:
1 r u x ? I hope that my, Mz.lStello. May I'.ansuez'for nyself,,too?- F~~ n32 ~ 144,:l~LeilenoeLeoes,not indicateithat I agreed uith.many of the c { 184*. ' things M k Markey said because-I'do not, especially some of
- 4. ~ -
h ?1445 -his' earlier romarks'regarding why.ua are doing some of "ca ? 1846 thing's we-are doing. ? ~ 1447 Ne-would::suggest that~ it~ is. only: because 14e have hearings-k c ~ 1848 or where:there' axe nous stories written that un respond. I s 1849 . re:leot ' that' notion rath'er vigorously. F ~ -t I q Mr.-Lent ~j_ Thank you, gentlemen, for your responses. 1890 . ~ J, 1891 have.no'further tuestionsL: i - H + 1892 Mrc Eckhardt. : 'Let's get to:this question of conflict of' t e 1893 interest. I:think'. that no Lone intentio:--ily. builds an 1: F 1894 .uasafe power 11 ant. - No one intentionally driver at 45 miles . E an' hour with: the intent of getting killed. Ne drives at143 1! 1895 i O p 1896 -mil'es an hour-to get to a place that:he. thinks he ought to e l' .O 6 1897 hecto earlier-thanJperhaps issfeasible or safe. m g f z1494
- Allso,fon.this-question of confliot!of11nterest, if it is-
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4 n paez '- '7s q @Mw wansjSuIyt47050 c 1 $1 - -n g,e gg.;, c 414,99: the.:'espezionoed; utility,that.is engaged;in quality. control,. . -O t o h i _ llyi sJaet~a seniliet of:intezest. It'is the"same. i ~ ',"(1900 _t ere'zea fas if:aLpersontbuilding..his own 'ouse is also: inspecting it" [ 2 T a f.., y. 1901 1:e 'A.' A. [- ~ 'and'hasathe~expezience to eo ao..'Ne has to-live'in'that: T 1982 q 4 e j D ?1903 1 house.; Ne usatsLit to-last.- q r t . In the first plase1I de net believe. that Szous and, Root.O c 1994 u
- j.,
cs I 1905 wouldfintentionally hasard theiz reputation ty shoddy vosk.( f' e ww i ~ 1906 I use Broua'and Root only haze as an example. Iido not want s 1907 to pointitha fingez'at that'sompany particulax1y. " ^ r b 1904 any constzuster is-going te.vant toJdo;a good-job Jut he .1909 is under a strong. incentive.to'oonplate it within;a given d 1910 periin-of-time so as to:be paid-for it..Then,in.a sense.they; like the home builder as osaparad uith tho' 1911 ara very musa- ~' S(12 .h'ome ounez. They walk away Azonlit'. u
- 1913i, If there is no olear delineation'of'desponsibility'of use;o e
\\ 1919 pays-for it, that is, the oost overrun, there is a.sonfU;t g y V, 1915 of interest'in that case very much greater, it seems to-me, q., m 1916 than > any potential conflict of interest in the utilf,ty b M~ 1917 itself doing the inspection. 4 m 1910 Mind you, I am not precisely taking the position'of one: 1919 side or anothez.- I'an not one.uho is looking for devils in V ~ 3 1920 this oase, L but I: an one who!is -looking foripersons who have f b 1911 Jan interest in finishing in>a huzzy and usiking away.uith ~ l 1922 ~their buok. ! Itlseems to me-that is the situation that-t ~ -.F-m '19.23 '.l en'is ts t here. -
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c s s n a A DgdK@p 4... y.7dANS(,EZF867050f ipAGE 79 ~
- rws
~ p.p a - _ A, g >;r R1934:.w9:Mr.1Ahearne.,gThompsohlem that we.found in' this-ease.and , z.v #,,,. .,.. m. ; a- ,- w,,. -m t+ ~ M S N*m M 1985 ?u:hich;does4pe sibly exist is,.unen the guality>oontrol-
- fm.,..
~p< e ,y a. .t 4 m w '2,fy - L p., a .c ~ r .i ~ m o e,G1936 t 'organisation doesL aetihavelindependenti nosessito the overall. w;~ g u 7{.
- s s,
I
- g :);J de(ople ' responsible,r:in this L esse the liosusee, Neuston. ^ Za' L1987
. o.,. , p p,s .s, (ozdezitolhavelthefkind'of:competentizaview; o' lear-out ~ M y:
- 1984
- 3..;,
a:. ., + + w- .~ .,,:,...,.. ~ O, 6 un Sk l1989 fidentificition'of; issues,iand ensuza' that these; issues get ,mw g, n, ~ r _,.... ~. .y y 1 9,3 0Hzesolved.1the; quality, control (people:sust have that kind of m
- w s
~' .as y"~ T 11931 Jinderandence2. + o' + 6 si s as. .. '. ' ' /.. L1931 - 'Whether.thatfindependenceLis iound by"a separate-x . o. .p. + et the .w .,? 11933 .organisation..whether-it.is found by a +? s U i 1934 organisat' ion madeiseparate Lto ireport independent 1y', oz u.- .g s, t
- s..
j %F c1935 "uhe'ther?itiisEdound byytheLuhole organ'isation being:ene and e "M' . r g. _... "...., ] 'r-4 1934 Sthen 1having this(overall: understanding that'you'have a v. ~ 11937 -men doned, anylone of those is Jue have found,.~sussessful. E x y W %. 1934 UWhatlis"notisussessfu1 Sis if you submerge,the qu.ality. ._.a jp 1939 sentrol and they busytahead as you identified. w' ~1940 -ns.mEckhardt.hs - A Suppose you have. quality control'undez one p,. j 1 np - 0 41 lsujezvisos. a(d you h, asia -construction under another,: as Ezoun - 1, + n 'N " k i !$42 'and Root.'has.' Suppose quality-control looks at the premises 1
- 1943 mendLsess some zumble uhese s'conszete pour is to be had-and i-.
i ld-D, J., 1 ~,. , e-ff J1944 byointarit'out% says<it'.is not clean enough; fez the> pour. ~ j 1 w 11945 fA.constzustioniforen'an.comes_in and puts on a lotuof e, a 4
- .5.. 7. -
1 m %7 1944 pressuzeLto se ahead with"the peur. I:am using this 2 c .s.- ~ f6 [.~ '/x... , ~ Qd _ f,., ', ,- y ^ J1947 ) hyps thetiodly,y,.. mind you., I-do not think..the constzustion i ss y a ge ~ yp q,. q,gg yg,,,,,, g,g,,tionally:uants;to ozeste antunsage situation oz: ,a r. b'
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y; 3 x ' 4:::'. - ~, ~;.nll .;r >gy.% T 3jg y G. J ' s.31 Q: %yf q.. Ks,;. &. L !' ', ~ p:9. 3. ,3r- ,", m. W.,y +3 s.g. s ? n m y "',' '. ,u.> j u ~ w h*('a. J ~ ' 9fbD 7 ? ?n. [ '~ ~ Q.. ,G' .N 'i 'm NAME8INZy347050L ' ' . PAGE s 440 a a t w .. m + 4 k-c r s. ...1. ,,.. q4 ...y, m.g 7q ggggy'.a:$eopaadisa his;Joonpeny % zeputation.n,Nosever, his, major. , w: ,->;n L> y.. [ 'l I i. Y W1954 fintesestVisftoNoompletaitheJdob,? keep;poople a,oving,;:notito, - 4,.. 4,. <. i c. e. a f. g - [1951 " hold *thingsfup.; 4 9) fL cp. ,. The, tauoris ;out(th'ere : z$tating'. Ne'doesinot want.to-s y1982 ,.,4. ;., s x
- v...
.- y ,n4Ldump it)again.'.Ne zeoognises1thisimight "' oazzy-it:offJ.a 1953 g :* '1954 l oost1 tens t of,-thousands of dollars in that.f particular.: pour. - s. lNa~uantsyte: push 5tojoonplata. 3'- ~1955 4, .1956 If1.the~ inspection'isjnottotallyindependent..uhather'it', ,n .:.,e r,. a c, ,5
- V' 1957 Yis uithin Exoda;and'1ootTozLby an independent' agency,'the;
~ Y 3. 3 958 itendency.uil1~belfor constzustion to overwhela inspection,., 1 '1- -a
- it'seensyto':me.- [Is thAt noticozzast?.
'1959 t ,1940 /Itz.yStello. ^ ? 'I think'you-are:desozibing pretty..much4the~ m. q .1961 process:thatzzeally.uentJon at south. Texas. :That uns the' V fe 1962 : kind of1 thing;ueJhad--son'oerniever, where the-pzessures that 3 c. i 1963 *~ vere.b'eing=putEby-the construction people sad the~sost;andJ kic - the : schedule < emphasis : ve'+re theze.. C ?
- 1964
/1965 CThe quality sentrolfpeople will tell;you that'thatL l ,/ "1966 fyzassure.was;thAza.- They felt ~it. There ware sease's of =.1967
- intimidation"and'haras,sment.< That.is the kind of
+ y ; g]g {1968 'environmentEthAt vasfindead)there. probablylEzoun and Root p u ;
- s. s
,e.. 4 (1969 shouldIhnwa.ze'cogni=adcit-earlier.and corrested it and got-p -); .. W 51970 Jzid[.iIit? (You ha've,to have these quality control people M p .o c.. .L ~ M; 11371.
- ha,re; that' int opendonoa'..
- ~ -
,z ~ Thatiis We Maveconly,lheen. talking.about,Broun;and Root. ,,i !9/2 ~ <1973l%heuayltheirsystemuns-go'ingon. What:about the licensee?- 4 I, y ~ E &~ a, _ 'tf. ~ s ~ A 4 ._' 1 3; ~ -:-+
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'a / = n. PAGES 41: ~ y HIFS67858' ~ [.
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lM. 7 ' ^ g. .: 6 s 5 + e ' a~197t: :Mheralwas1he' ia?all;of;thistc Mhyfusan't ha avare'th'at. . ' j g; 2 r4 ~ M Q 4,,: ',. yx c . y,:, m m
- ,'~
.t -y +, lgf A1975 lysessuzeiuasf thezet. Why; didn' t'_hei do ' something. about Jit and "V 19 ,1976 'say,V ' ?You wille.haveNteksand thel truck off.. 'We ' azelnot ! J ,1, . :x). c "t,' 4 [ t:s;.] ," R 1977 goingito.-pourt LMelaze notizeady.- js. top.? That'issthe: ,1 .,/ 8 I 1 % ..~ M, 1978
- kindsedleadioation that-you'- need Lto n see. '
U: a 4 u.. s o . That Mattheikiad'of a changetin attitude tha't.'un'nou have ~ 1;' 1979 3 s. s ~ y l, ~. T ' t((, F ~
- 'z 1980 iat the? south-Texastpro;fest with the'ouzzant envihonment,
{_ s
- a
,. w. [ 7 e 1981 -iaoluding)3romaiand Rootothemselves. They secognisa?that-j i ..r . :theyhadli,Miaotonested.thatjkindiotanat'titude. Within. j a s:1982 e i "
- f r
.,.,, +, 11983 lthe"constzustion. staff they,ueza somewhat intimidating. j ~ i 1944 Mr. Eckhardt..Why don't.you do this: When you see a - r o m 4 situation uhaze.somebody like NLCp does not'have'the 1945 jg 1 V 5' 1986 experiencecthat a larger-sonoeza alzeany experienced.in u ~ .1987
- n'uolear plants, ' et esteza, has, uhy. don' t you insist. on-3'
,g r x 1988
- sonsthing'different than.that you would insist on in the
';J. .1989 situatio'n.of the experienced = plant? ~ t. ' ~ 1990 . It would'seem to me you s'hould make-a different. general. i q = ?1991 policy determination.. I am not-saying nou that.you ought'to e, f 4 6 1992 have'!aifirm!zulesin advance.because you have allof thesa' -l . ~. ~ ,4 51993 Lthingsitailor:made. You have plants-that you can count on - W.. Jtha[dingersion,tuo'handsi I' suppose. v I1994 . ~ ~ r ...~
- 3. e. m -
c1995 v. .It would.seen. tonne that when you have someone whomlyoui .'a q
- (q < y (,
Eknow is{telying~on.the'oon'tzaotos;primarily-for inspection', Mi 21996 4My 7. .f. [' .m. 31997 - in4that.: situation,the contzastor. should do his contzaoting= ^; P a _p + Mh 'and somebo'dy. else Loompletely -. separate ought-to ldo' fthe. 6 m. 7 y,, x S.I' f m.xm h &! ?.,( r l ~ ^ GQW * : Ii7 ~ %"5ll[ ? Y
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p.g -~g,' .a q r, wp%gg q, y. y PAGE. .92. d5&~ NAllE 8iRZy247050 i W' .iis J.9.... # 'a? F m... m, 519,99YAu lity insy.*otion. Nx 1 ; _ s ..s .y ?! ' 49 % n 12000
- Z;uould alsollihaito ask'you,in a. situation in which there A, w? ". - ~
s ~ - ta ? 14 f g i,,
- N.,
.I. ,m has !aot ' heen +.? division of. zesponsibility ' properly f "2001 1 s c: ,.4 r g .7 d. Cv 2002 -adninisterediuhr'you helieve that.that sama situation'will-o i c 2002 / suddenly' be?seissaed' boomuse of a fine' against} the utility. ; ~ .'k -a n 9 r., ,2004 ;The: utility c tells ne u very. strongly a'ad. very ' positivelys that ? the 8100,000 fine will. net.he passed on to?theisatepayer.:'If q ' 2065 .71 ? 12'006 have.he'd talks with them.en that hasis. %y. a 2007' Novavezi(they do' not 'tell me what is. goin't to happen 'about ( cc. '] muchTlassez figure, that is,-what'a'iditional cost-of -2000 . at '[ 2009 oyezzun:-isLgoingito be occasioned by the delays *in vozk,'the v -2010 1 evozking, Land.uhatever may happen ~uith that:particular y .M h.: - 2*t 11 f acility or parts: of it. 7.; e J o 2011 ' It see'as"to mecthat you siinply-have to look at.these j ~2013 questions'and-inithatparticular casa determine what you are a:j '} 201'4. going t'ofdo' dependent on~the" experience of the utility and ~ c 2015 : thol hist'ozy Mad': the. experience of sthe. contzactor. '2016 I justloannot see hou-. simply' telling'azoun and Root, / i You[justodivida your function'more sharply in the <2017
- i ci
- 2018
- iuture,: that:youl oeuld be '.assuzad' this plant is going to H
'T, ,c-2019 '.belpzoperly constzusted. I do not want to advise ~you oz. .I 2 S \\ l2020 psessure yousiniyouz Idecision in' that' particular esise...-I n.
- (3'021 ! simply : vantltor raiss iat' :least! the; possibility. of - experienos
~ .s '1022 Jin~ the: past indicatingf what.'may' oo'our -in the : future. pg .s 4.. 'I-also ' vantito zaise.the Ltuestion of uhether or -not in: 4 A ~ 2023 ~l .a-j -i y ~ ? .[ _' 7 4 + Q% .i. - gf? I Y.b.J., ~ 'A + - ^ < - ^ + . ;^ m m , -.q% q c_. [y '~ , [::,2 Q. t h~ '$f " G; $.$,.';-j ~ ' A $&hf OD, ~. f... f$ $ M h, N $ N k M U - O b h j U m. y , w v.~
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- 8
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- M- + <r .,3.'. .. l.' (. l .p., 5j, ^ , ~,FAGE ' 83;. ~s , ; *; i v;pi-:: l : sq , 4.M iy y' J ' ap ;,' - f; ;.,, n e M.:c ?uy & MAFts?NIF867,850: 1 a, ,y. o v c. n m., y, 8 s y;_ QN.w..~ s n s '. . y y.,. m.' / ? . ~ ? 10.?.4%. advance 7,of fthe Liis, ease ;t. he question.of : the particular-D s n,e s.){ypsm:y:G g2015!;j.cupezioneelof(the utility should notl influence your. decision-- i
- l y - -
.m. L3024 e,, W,' %e c. ,=about,? separate. inspection 1in:a separate _ossanisation from s +g 3 ..,,e a '2037 iconstruction.;, .u 2 a, ~. ..3084 Nr. Ahearne.' iAs'you noted in;.your comments, I;sannot A j m ~: f*
- 3039 ~adezess.specifically with magazd tofsouth.TexasJhassuse'one'~
.a , j,., _ o , ;;;o .,s "of Ethe01ssue,s!'thA openEtin. g111'oe. nse hearing isf specifically s J ?x '8030 ~ l !3031 Laddre'sminglis whether' oz. net-the - systemtthat Wil.L beiput in;
- }
M a' 3033 - place' Las.s 'sesult. of. this: zesentl go-zound is going to j m /. ~ 2033 'providela plant adeguately constzusted. H J 2034 .Thatfis the immediateIissuaithatLthe:.lisensee---- L. ' Mzi tekhardt.. Leti me ~ inter: leet that I do not want to .b, '2035
- influence. thais.-
-I. understand ~that;there are special 2034 6s ,1 2037 Aeindumstances.1 You hava-.a plant:undez/uay.inauhichJthere 'j t 3 f, e N. imust?be usighed' factors ofJsafety,ffactors'of[ cost ovazzun, 2038 u M. m,_ N, e[ 2039 ?and'..fso' tors whichiare,uniquecto thisiguestion. m
- 7..m..
The, questions I:an ac'4r.sg you have to do with a~ general [ t -2040 w policy [ decision. I asked themEbecause it'may beidesizable j [b ' L 204'1 ~ 2 y r+. ' ' ~ ~ l 6 ich' ~ '3042
- foz us"to fashion guidelinesilegislatively in this azem.-We c
8 --T p '2043 would;11keito have yourladvice.. '2044 >Mr. Ahearne. :I uill go back and find out hou faz..alongcay, i m y g a ,. 2045 (people are.on.doing-that zeview of'the,vazious approaches of d
- {,.
J, O .2046 management., I will re-examine a list of. the. people who' aza. m.'. '1 s >f l l _ e,
- in either'sonstruction-pezait or under construction to see
,2047 N
- y
. ~ yw Ll2044 cubether.or not-thereIyazacother cases where this concern JR y
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y s ..o, v ..r ..~ n. pAGE # 80. .$.s y. V.2. mange:EZF847050: > J. 2.w m, , r w. 4 t c m .:.mx... . :n : s, , N. 2 6 3 9 '; c. s h o u l d ' h e e m a n i n e d'.. Th.e. n I will: promise toh,vave it' ry-7 w -ctest .esaminedt W u w,<% n n,.. c x n ..y ,..,. 5 w .n.;; 0 "6 .r J.., '* unanimous : consent :that.- 1, I _Ma6Eckhardt'. -Z:uould like-toiaskc <3351
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.2052 ~.the (zesord 'he' held open?'here JAer: you tolsupplyius;uith :th'at C m m 1, 3, s= v s t... 3 4 ' 4H5.dastusifindemnation7andralso'with:eextainXviews and? opinions-a s g s ' -( . v' j : -y ..m. -.. + . +. ~. {304e,eemaerning'uhat_ general polisy miehtha put'inte;effect;to ,-e 3_ v. i tolthe r. . L 20.151, heet _theLproble'asfuhief may he not. just' with z6speet.7 t-e ~. 2054 'sou'th1 Texas <plantLhut-withLrespoet to the entireiguestion;:of,' sq m ( . z c g. ,3 '2057 : attempting >to build these things with' minimum.oos'tVoz. ~ i. 1 gi 7' '
- 2054
'ovazzunstand.malminus safety.- r... g n Yesi1 sir.-. ^ 'l \\ _y 3059 Mz6Ahearna.. x 2060 LtMaterial to'be; supplied 4follousi1. ? i-E ', (2041 e 2 .J y.' .2042 .sssssammas ZMBERT'assanssums 4 m.. A .rm W )J c <a v L A a s e 4 )
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, ;.) l* ,yp -PAGE SS J. J'? MANE LBZy267054 ~ ~., ' r , - ;,, g '.,. ' ~ ' ' 2462' iMr. Cozeezaat. .~. ~ .2964 Ms. ' Cessesaa' lThank.you, Mr. Cha[izaan. I da not going to .m s. ~ L2065 . take my-full five minutes.- I have.had that espostuaity 206'8 already. ) -2067 Mr. Eckhardt. Five' minutes'neans 15 this morning at least. L 8 L 2848 Mr. Corsstan. I'just usat to seament with zagaza to the 1 -2069 .partioviar power 1 plant.that has been primarily the subjest .l E t 2070 of the hearing.: It usu14 appear'to me,-pastioularly in view
- ,s_
2071 'ef tain experienes that 'the liosasse asL ve11'ss the Brown and ~ t C'F 2 y.eet enganisation has had, that we probably'ought to-examine q 2'071 a little aoxe-sazafully not only.the-licensee but the people. .j i 20 '4l uhe.uill he ' involved in the constzustion, engineezing, and-t 2075 all of the other aspects.of'the development of a pouez -i i# 2076 plant. I eestminly would support-any effezt that your 2077 l agency 'uould. undertake' in'l that zespect.- Li o q ~ i L 3078 When'you have a 11oensee,for I should's'ay potential 2079 Ilison'seo. like ; Duke peues or -Commonwealth Edison or any of '2000 nthe'otherswho-havebeeninthisbusiness'forsome-time, g p . v 2081 'that.is different from an application coming as it has from 2 ['[ ~2G42 Nieuston power'and light, particularly with the azzangements e 3042 (they had with: Brown:and Aoot. v' ~- That is;just.to'onlarge'. 3084
- letlme make 'oneother somment.
22045 {thei-zacend'a; hit with' respect to~the approach"that tho' .i y-1% ' f2046 agency might take zagarding the separation of the'vazious i .2047 functions----oonstzustion~, guality. assurance, and enginesting. [ 4q {. (# 2 'h. S. l s q b; n. ,,1 c f *~ s ~ b 7g &w - :: - ? q ,,. '..M L. - - M
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N r ~ C .2049 k .,2 think that this pasticulas:: ease'has suggested 1thatfit'is r 1 ' s t ,-2099 em(impostaat. eensideration as to how these f'unetiens !are, r
- +-,-
1- ~. 4 ~- p - -periosaed.,ubesetthe division.ed. responsibility'woule; zest.. S 1991 ,? .1992 Za L the : sese ' ei Ceamensealth Edison,11% 'is my~ understanding ' f .m ^ thattheyhave'infallesses-uitareLtheyhavebuiltthaiz: E' 2092 i w '2494 -power:p1'ests zese'aved dez themselves----and, of oeusse,ithey: ~ a 2 9. have %e espeeit, t. 4 1 is---- e sensuusti.a f-sti.m as h 2094 .wellias.the quality assuzanee'functies. Neuever, they have: ,n L given,te amether~essamisation.the azekitectural'and l:;. 2097 2094 -engineezing function. This eenpar.f is kneva as i L a 9 2099 sargent-Lundgi, one of.the -eutstanding firms' in the couritzy.- i 2100 2 zesognise-the. uniqueness;of commonwealth-Edison and.the. 7-2101 ~ + _ f . site 'of..the.eeapezativn'ia compazison to.sene.of the ethers q-I 1192 (that'azeiiaL%ejh'usiness. Whealthey compazed their progress p (2103 sonts'.' couple plaats, t.he; Byron plant and the Braidueed plant, u, fi.' -1194h'againskthe;routh. Texas. plant, all three of these started at I .2105 abo'ut the; semaltime.fia 1975. The'constzustion progress o .afteri2timentasish'oued that the south Texas' Unit I-plant was 5, E. n2104 21"07 J 24:pe.rcentEcomiplete [the Byron vas 25 percent scarlate, the l 4 -
- 1
- Staiduoo(vas /20ipaz'oent'..'eosplete. 52104 4; ~ L210'9 ~ ~ ' [yoi Unit 2,'tha'_southhTexas plant was 2.4 percent,'the . :.1 2 ~ E'. Byron pla,ntfuss.'21-pezeent'somplete,-and the Braidueed plant g , ' !$110 ji 2, l 211.1 Jussk14fpezoemtcomplete. + ' [AmethezJinteresting:somparison was that in the case of - i - 7311'3 "{ z..3 ,4 w s ~ ~ .l + ~ ~ f a. ~ g ,,) g.3:, ' My r
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s = yy - 1 -T >l'i1y ;,,,. g. A J gi..g. , j^ J ,t. rc { Za-: the Jesse jef :exaft-~1abes,iskilled 'lah'or, south Texas: 2115 f1L4
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- 21.16 ;zequired.2/424.peopleluhezaas Byzon and.3xaiduced2xequired.~
R . m.. i s ._..c .e ..... ~. d y w 12117 ! about :1,500 ?pe'ople" ex i less.. " ~ S c,,'s n T1118 tunatimen havaitzie'ditetindicate haze? is tt. hatt.they,7havoi one,y y J1 p w d J,'_ 'l ( . =.., s .....,f ,_ l .t -2119 ( y n ya, t 1. Y
- a"let1more weak with.. dauez! people 3and without';thejyzohlessL.
m I <4 ~, ~ 11tlseems te:me.uhem us some'upon stunique;oizouestance,Vas ' c p n.
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~ '3121 itathe osse'ediseuth Texas,;et theapoint of; application; n m ' - - ~
- 2123.hefezeithe agency we should take into. account tha.capacityL 2123 'ofDthe~ people uhe will.he involved as wel1 s's-theJdivisier?...
J ', ~ a m 21.24 of fumations t' hat uill he'inaluded in the process.: -s ,o ~ 12125 .I yield back the halance of my time. w- ' 1136 'Mr..Eekhazet.. I~esould-like to ask unanimous'oonsent:to' 'd ~ 2117 . place in'the.resese.:a seamunication from Ms. Kleinzath, H n u 2128 Comnenuealth-Edison,tand:Mr. patrick 1Mof.ean, of'our .Ni ~ 1129 esamittee,-whichincludasjsome-atteohaentswhichIbelieve' ~ ..na 2130 give the figuzes you were' reading. ri W v 3131 Ms. Cezoezen. Yes,-that is'sozzeot~ Ms. chairman. 1 n., 2138 1Matazihl delh us 1 S133 y 1 -21J4g:massassass:rgsg1Ts 8!* mas ass m a - 3 s s ~ . o 1 y' l' i-4 A 3 2, 'D T j g. k;P w p' - ,a , r p .s t t 4 g, 'R '.i [ 5 4 4 a Q' ,q 3 - c. W., '. ' A O + ~C> e m:y.f h; ' _. ;yg L }, L f v s ~
e~m=**vssy ge,wn mes ny% y 7, - c. 7 cm <.3 ,, ' _. ' R ,,..< ' '. y wJ )'!O.iG ,L i q-y v, -"q% c y:, fy~i s. w 'x fQ f
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. y .w s.# < q. -o yy- @m TNrMMalgzEn. 3 % have. noiquestions'. Ms.~. Chairman'.- 9 ' W-0" kp1- ,D21,34 '~ ty s s r. ~ [ ~ * -} (
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n 1., u 4 R a. - GT 213.7 <Ms.JEekhardt.-:Ms.;Danneneyaz?J' ~ s c o. r. .n. YY: ,N , f x, s h_ ' + w ._.r* s-i Q~- 2134
- Mad Dannemeyezi - Z wasj.not haze -at;ther beyinning.,of)your J g.
s. ~ m-s. ,. f;. - s -- A u r ~2 i2139 stestimonF. ;Iluouldilika to haveRsonething.oleased up fort i im n s. a 'i~,, .m m %2 ', ;Y, , x.. "? 1 e ~ E W+ - w $140 me,Lif you-mould ;please.1 y i j k.beIinning Who was' :. ~ / y j.'p s ; 3:., )2141 'In$thisisouth?TexasTytofest fzon th
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.. ~.. ^ [$ jt142. doing.,,the^eonstzustion[ inspection'uork io's the] puspose ' of. j e-
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p-2143 :vazifyingToonpletioniso that;theico"ntractor, BrounCandnRoot,': .. y
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aK-L .. < +.. ; 7 ') ?uould;g'et paid-for:the'uosk'_done.atEthat plant?. Who uas-9 q 2144 p -, p 3145 ;doing it? - c ~ "hT') A ,2146 . Mr J ste11o.1 In-terms'of inspection processas.thatigoton.. j . \\ .Ezoun and Root have.-inspectors'themselves; ( 2147 e a b l1144 L M z'. D a n n e'a e y e r. i.et me askithe guastion'this ways' Did;- ] ~ / 'O1 .n ~ T 2149 <the: utility have. inspectors-onEtheijob fron'the beginning?= 2150 ' Mi:.13tello.. Yes.1 t. s ,2151 Ms.-Dannemeyer. ' Normally~in.constzustion work the. entity 1 g (( l1152 ~that is. paying ~out the money..the utility 'has: inspectors.'on ~, ~ the::$ob to verify the;uork was_done. 1153 iWas this the'praction. U c 'F l, f " J~ 2154 there?- n 2155 i N r.i s t'a l l o. I-do.not.know wha't' the contractual: ~; s c ' pj -2156.!azzangements areJasf.to;whether they pay a oextain:sua'~of D:9 M... 4157 !aoner[at',' a Teesta,in} pezoentare o.f Loonpletion. ~.. e, 3 y 12154
- Thel purpose of?the' lies.nseets inspectors'is.to ensure that
> ~' ss' .~; .the/workfislaone~such.that it meetsialliefJthe proper. 6C i
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.sg, a w .e x, s s , 7214,4 _:. '-1 u 'ig; ~. - - cf lMr'.'[Dannemeyer.3 : Maitta minuteh Theselincpectorslthen"for ?. .c ~... .~. ~p a .a un' > 2145,;Noust,en----uhat was ithe naaet of : At, E Nouston ? power and' Light---- 3 e m p. ,3 ,...?, ,e. ,g, o, J2144 - they ;uere:.on theEfobifrom Lths, Ebeginning: forsthe= pu. rpose of ? 9 v. J ,r .s ~.,...... _., ~,.. -.s -q '21.67 Tv,erifying;that the workines<done:in-accordance-withhplanst . ~. ,a d- ?? ,, ~ ,,75 y N ( M 2164 andxspecificationss':is that right? o s 4 -.~ ? b 4 2169
- Mr.Este11o.l (Their 'purposebis toi auditi the uorks thatfis g
y s 'n ^ 217_0 ' goingfosi by" the, constructor who is :3roun and Ro6t.. m s V d . 2171 Mr.?Dannemeyer.- Were those inspectors employed.by?Hou'ston t. --4 1 ,s. ~ ~2172
- powerfandiLight on theJpremises of the oonstructionisite.
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2173 !fromItheTbeginning? y <a s-f_. ' ~ ' r .3174 ME'. Stallo. Yes. ;They:had. inspectors:paidLb'y[HoustodL J%, x 5 -.p t. 2175 pouer' Landi Light. - ~ L-u r. ,g g 2176 Mr.iDannemeyer.c DidT.those[ inspectors'eaployedIby<Houstoni t 217'7 v ^ ,s a, % . powerr andzL' ight;have: the., ability, -the 'superviso'ry m osp aisity. \\ '2174 at;anyup' oust ~during the'.constzdotion process:to say,fThis i M ~> +
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~ =2179 Tis:not?u.p,to. snuff. 1Yo.u.wili not continue until:itJis u, 2140 foorrected.?!?: as e + ' : -; ? ^ ~ ' ~ ,H Mr CAhearne.' You might'Mantito have1Mr. 5.eyfrit,suorn.and.. m . u ' J2141 P 21,42 'then.: answer.t fMe ishthe R'eg'ionaliDi, rector. L n, 12143 . n + ./ [Mr JEckhardt.';iMri Seyfrit, uhyadon'_tiyou come?onfup.. 4: c M ' ^}- f e,. ~,,., ~ +- ' w: 12144 ,. ~., 's ~' J 3Dosyou?suaarftojtellithe~ truth, the whole'truthiSand. S m. s 1 s ~ .n h.8 _,. ~ ' ', i ...p Q A ' ~N < l . ;b. :% ^ x 'j& c, ' s .;y -, ,1 :e >c.(.,. [d(, E. I 4 f e zy \\, e gr,..wif:. IS',. _ r llh* s .:n, g.; ~.. ~s , 7.., .'y ..-ig, e.-. c - ~ . d \\,..... ,g g. N , - Q . h^ k 'Y y F n'5.:M;fM E m%a. .%: ' '. ~ ~,. + f J t N +~ n. ' ^ ? gge m:, i.pg " a- + a ' quYM ,j ' -Q h $ ?4.;' 9 % L !.?,;lj.
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f", 'gg,,42135Maethingput0thetruthfJohelpyouf.sedt ~ a w
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.e. e s . x w t e 0 -n ,,y 11 ,,,,tidS e h d,'.91 3 I[if ..C ^ N j ,p 3 /gg/',-7M2144 { hasibeeni uith Ethat prejest 'manyiye ars. ~ 4;. y...... x Vp.y,,;;~ynj.. 1 73 ,lHzO Sayisita.Aotus11y'.Z have<not:besa?uith?theiprojaot: s WE h c.92189 e" b6 Q.. ~42190 'deumstheredthati many: y. ears h I'have only1beensdounither-two.. s m up. xv
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r2192 / pomezd asedaz[asdiaspectionlis: concerne'd,'/I think it perhaps: - > g ,y y ,s p' q ~ M ;. g::. ~ ,...e '1 2194 rwould not-he <iais <toizafez Lto - them -as rinspectors. They: axe; _ O. , + > - e m - ru k, 12195 ~ uioskin #ad Taudit Edunation..
- ~p g.x -
IThe4 primary detaile MinspectionKoile'ach.'and)every activity t = f1196 V nw .c <ywy <. J2197 lis'done byitrovnaandeRoot. employees. .t ~ s Y '# 3 e ..Isait just a ' minute. : LI.do'not understand: Q: s 3. ' ' l2194 lttr..Dannemeyer. y~ s v%. y +. 7.y - ,2199 this. - N_ W c am.. o? ,.2200. M.yJaxperience'in-the oonstruction business:is'suchithat, Q; ,_t 2 + 1 s mo m 4 s.; ~ J 54 __ t e..... .y c/Sto1 the:fontitympaying the money;has somebody on/tha'. job' 2j m,<. z 3 w 'V + 9 [' ,. (4' p r _..A s _ l h s2202 -verifying)that1t e work > uns L do'ne= in. 'acoordance: uith ' plans. ~~ c 4 .s2203 .. 'm x u p' 1and speoitisations.:' My' vantage point of-experience tellsEne -
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,g .4. p,p. W; g/p w - th,atlNou.'ston pouez and1 Light-should.have.:had inspectors.'- .r' 9' (.!j N~ .S,. n - up ', ~ 72204 fv ,s ..u - ,~ w y,S ' y f W $y. v;, .a o . as : 1205 thandspon':inspectozs a working; at: that ; site -izou the beginning p, u u,.
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i; W K. ?2206 9supervisingi ifnyou pieaseo the_inspectings_uork ofi3roun' add ~W, f ysqE gady '.y; %fQ z. m. y. 'd x em ;m.a.' ,m., ,m. ~. C-M ^- ' WQM.,2
- .m M A. 2 %.-M.-+ J2207 i Roo ti,tU v. g..erifyfthat'it<uns;being.done in accordance,with.
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@ !, :; ; _ 93 1 QMs.LSeyfzit.f In;the1sensetthatfyou statedV no psiziothat: @ 4 n.. v:c u ,+.. >w -, -... i cc + V.
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y ,.3 5 r3 ; t 1 5 l;(Stitt Nr)?Dannemeyer O Zfithatiisanotid'oneffsomebodyfhasLaot;got ,n p, .. ~ 4 o, ,y, c m. 9V M2214 $theiz < ast Ltogethez.a Zidolnot iknou' how you 'o'an zun; a [ 'y% '_ ;, } Q L [L.' p. y... t m w g s. -c. Im,.. 4r.__ W." !$215 Lo'enstzus.t'ionipaiogzami withoutithat - k'ind - of an. operation fin - d g' , m%... *-.. A ,i -2214
- existence'.
.w c [*- 5, - v ,n. ... f, 4_ s 1 4, ,'lMr. leyfzit'.9 i May Irtzy to uplain the proce'ss?. AbI ' " q P o y2217 11 u y v. ~ ] indicatadi/Brownhand RoatJdoes"the 'actuallidspa'otioniof each" s,:/ 2218 ~ .I s p '2219 Jand1every'activitycthat takes place. They'inspast.the E 4 b
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~2211 Mr. J D'annemeyez'.. -I understand'that, but they have'an 'W 2222
- inhazant conflict.of. interest.
j f 4 -2222 Mr.- : Seyfrit. MayDI; continue? x <m ,y, I.: N 2234 Mr.i Dannemeyez. -Yes.- H u, Mr.JSey'fzit.'NousEin lighting and;Fouar's'functionris' ] 2225 <u ~ m ( + "2226 somauhat similaritoDthat:of'ths;Muslear Regulatory-s, .w'1 %n m. ex 2'227 colismission'.' LItJisEan intezaadista laval,.if.you will. ^l M. _e.- m. .. ~...,. .a
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- 2224 Thei'r function'anditha way;they?cazzy out.their role =is to
,a b l . =.. m ~ lk* f. Laudite toTravieu the inspectinniverkLthatiis.donaJby;3x'ouni f l - f2229 Aw a ..L2230 andHRooti to deLaomailimited,iaspection'ofitheiz;ounton a-M "n. ;' o n s. m. n &l.-. ; i u- -,J2231.fsamplingib' asis,aand ' onithal 'hasis'make the-- datazainationi f4 T, s L, a ~n x - ~ M, Q, m, _ 1'2232 7that Ey.es,15xova v andi Rootsis: eazzyingj out its, function" s 4 a .c,- -,. _s j g. ,m + <[2232 iproperl M 4 ew a;. es7# ~ - - - w 7, m
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- a. . x. ~ ' @;q T f2234 S?y XMzMDannemeyler.. ;Mou :Itthink younaza(saying that1 to ca. t c @G ef * ' ' _ ((L 2, yl' a. n l j
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t. 9, y p.w ;, a s 72229 tthe3beginning.JgI;tkought;thateyoutwereisuggestiagatkati j ~ g. m. .. 3and"pevez:should'have besa'doing'allted ther d 3. ,n ,..'Neuston':lishiing.. ,e W ch2240 t + n. v- - u.- .e ,tinspection points.t H wn ,es: .s ..a ~'~4 J32' I w m
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- MrJDannemeyes'.-'Me,Tnot allief
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r - - ~, m.. . w ~ u[,..2242i f ve~sifring.f + w "y' 1: 4 ~ 3 y; (O- =224,4 ~ a ?Mz.rSe.yfrit.-,Then it is a sase of misunderstanding. I-w. .t ,.s e* E g. '[- s
- 2245
. think ue.aremin agreement neu. aZ y f y Y '( d22%6
- Mr. Dannemeyer.. 'Along with the point that Chairman j
~ _........ .' & 3 12247 lEckhardt>zaised, suppose a' point somes when the inspectaas 1 ews .. l' 3 .foz>H.ous'ter:pouezjand 5 Light: say ;that at eestain stages.in sj ~ i J ;.q - + r$244 m' n........ f; ' 2249 ithersonstzu'otion! Process the:uosk is not up te' snuff, it is; n:- ~ [. t. 12250 "gcing2tolhavalto(be za'done.. At that point it is'eleas to 1 M ~ s m ?2251. a
- evezybody fon theit sitesthat. nothing further saa ha 'done with
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<thatLyarticulaz1 phase until.the-sozzeotive.uork is done.- 1: v - - t'252 Tyrom7thatlpointLon,Joorrective work which in the opinion 4 Q". O s w. S.N i, .. Lei?Nouston:posez'and Light ~is'the-fmult'cf-Szoun'and. Root, 2254 -.- ~. m..,, i w; s ~ m r, s ?s'e"far-as:thht sozzestive uosk'~is to.be'done uhose niskal'is 5 2258
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m w y-m- /it0 12256 s, A, u en s. g g'G< A - 42257 " E ' Mz'.? Seyfzit' = Zsreallysdo not.knou. -I do not know uhat al -s s. 'M J u v. ) %w ir E, m.,s e.. ..~,g-,- (thancentzaotu,alVazzangementihetueen:BrownLan&LRoot andlHICp }J ,s r.%. s,. 2 e.~VC+ -.'?2284 fM v W. 2 .; f ,s av ,.c .1, { _ f.2259 U, s.,h ~ 4 9 m r'.; 9 3.' *, ;;:Q, ~* }.c ', 3 l{%[7.C r s .4 -: J _< L.:
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L u -x ..e .~ l](M f] f ' W :$ W2361 Teenstzustionspre$est.=lThe: var itf.ought;to be:zun;isathat~ifi ~ ,J.. 4 M.p . }3 J a ~ -theDsentzsete:Ehas'made;aVaistakelin tezasief~uhat thel C ;l;t363 s a ~
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y a: s ( o q g. W e [2363 sentreetez {iir, to e de',J and Neuston Nuez and L Light f uho : i's. ' ~ m g&' * ' u s s ., i_, _ _, _,,y_ _a ';q: r w ' _ ;3264 paying %the; bill;establishesbthat thezelhas';been.,a detest. ' &i . ~_... - r.? M.. y[ "$365 MeaXthat:pointduringjtheserzestivalu^esk','itshouldfbethe 2364 niekelief1the;esatsastos,Jaet1an add-on to the co'st of: 4867 )Mousten"pouez'and Light. w ~ '8268 -Nz;<&hearna.1 philesphics.lly=that sounds cozzeot, buti .H H The*N1C does not 'R 2149 practical,ly that 1slast what the MRCEdoes. q .-2170 set involved'. Nl 3271 Mr.'Dannemeyer.- I-am ~not s:uze it should. Is there-Oj 4 6'anybodyhere$sonNeustonpowerand'Lig$twho.canansuez. - C 2271 '1 t l. 'f N M 234311that?; I sa sure.that'is-the wayJituought-to be. ,R si Zi Nousten'powerJand. Light ooses along with-a chaugez order ?. '2374 ,n a 2275,'in tho' courseof'constzustionfthat'deviatesfizon the plan at- ,6W ~ q t x L 2276 the..euts'at:and'says that~the-contrastor, 3roun'and Rcot,. y A 1277 implement tMs change fezdar, that is on the ' nickel.of, rj q: ,Neuston-power and T,ight. 'N6uever, corrective work should be 227.8 ., J
- 2179 ea ths'.niskal ei.-the.contzestos.
c 1 l $ - ',. g~ 3248 -I=getithetimpression isom uhat'the chaizman said that'the [ ' ~ L - ishairmaa believed ?that the oest of.cozzestive merk unsL fust.- J,
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.ct281 -1848 paid ~by.Neusten-power;and1 Light as a matter.ed oourse,' just; > y = - 3 s ..Ilas.netL sure :that' the; constzust' ion; industryj ', p ..) Q 18288 - pay.anything".? x.... ~ n Y;9 g ~ xy y aggg4 zuasithat u,'ay ; Mr. Chairman.- 4
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, u., p. ; ...m; s im '??'O s/f2288 Teeu14isup' ply;the~ansuez?tC.thath as'tolwhethez or::ne W,,= '~.. - _n. me 6 .. ve,. 3,, p ^ .: As se s m ~ n._ . n w w z... m +..
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- 2247 e,
+: g 9 [,. -. !y ~~ , ?? ? M' ~.,u, , ; q l. ,] _, "r 9 a;p ] w, ,4,2244 ~. w,- (niekelied Neusten3 ower4and) Light?N I think/it[is a[7very?,v h P an n n. ,~ - q: limportant:diddezeace..'^'. ,m. - - a _ W L.2 2 4.9 ,, A& f~ ~ =. s s - s V, 4 f ei ; x' x ,w ., - m ~,. 4,, ~
- 2290
- ' cMzX sayizit. >IL,eould netmansu. u that;guestion ' + M t. <. s c <g r "4 .y..'..s-.'i. s,. 5: g Q..e (2291 ispec,ificallyb TInigeneral,,uhat youesay0is;true.NThat is ,j 7 a u n.g . i.2292 , generally f thasazzangement,'th, at;you riind. , x.. .fc y .. + s-~ <3 .s.c .t
- 4. )',_I
.,.,,.22924 {,., s s-3 .g. s jv i, ) yf,f 9_ Neueveri ao you getsinteltheidatail,in some'ofEthese s Oj ,M-a ,~ ~.. r, .n, , a ..xa toontzasts ;you' find therera a areas that-are nego'tiable: .h .= s '2294 3.- m 7 a d s. e s. t i 2295 Teependiagfon th'e spesidio kindlof: fault'thatlis;found end-b,,, 9 ~ ,i . ['IN. ,.) ,c ? ,,f ' i, _ 4 4.$p. -;uhatitheLeffortsJaze that:need to.be set ^forth to cozzest-
- 2296 Q
.c .s x ey i, 12297 -it. C y -- Mr.fDannemeyer. m.c There is aidine gray,tlinenhetween' w f. < -2294 g .4 .1299
- yeroene Coorzestive uosk:and implemsntedichange orders.
N~ ' ;,. ~ c -Theza;has?be. qrn;s'lotTofilitigation over that' issue.. ,.+t {
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m ,E . ~., y.... d.8 31 Thank(you,cMr.tchairman.c .x ..s < c.; :. JE M Sf02 ; Mz Geck'h'azit..'I wouldslike to saycat this' tineithat I-I 3 nu. o, L
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f ^ -2'303 Wthink;ue have a110tiofJguestions:that-need:to be answered by. .c . n + sw u:. s 'A m.. e m - s.. s.m. - :M 2304 :Neuston Light,ingl..and; power Company.;:We also need to giveJan; .~ o c ,'p 2h,*, 'e y MN
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4 S,W ' 2305 d._o.pportunitystoJBrownJand> toot;to respond uith1xespect to C-:l l n '. ~ y _ ;.. - If2506 isomefo0thelstaO nentsithat';have been sad.e here on whichl ' m-m w, m,. ^,,
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.,8,i*. ,.u .c ,r r p -Q'!. gN q. 2307 C.theze:.;asys be ? eonfliot. _. c y$n ~ - , p.9,.,~ '.. '. . ~ n. c 1 ' 12304 1: 4 d WeTheva..nzefinzzed hereJto5the Texas publio Utility- +' M ?e l,. u 4 ~~ = v sm t 'D ' -... j., ,f ...x- ? T Y M L,,. %., ~ ^m e 2309 sco,mmission andttheizdzesponsibilityquithuzespectjto-3., ~ ~ m ;. '. ~ ~ j, ,s .1 r r w s ,,,. *:; u 4,.., _. <. ~ ^ '.., - v' y<.. +1
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)', N("M $,f9 6L_2311 !tejkavalthatlindezaationiat;1ater hearings.: We felt.th'atl Q ',, gy a. w 3.~, - ..v o m T. _ ,m,j.n ~ T shouldt be? heldDia... g%$dM Z.a-c. s, (this)ene Washingtonst'el1syL.the ground 7uosk.' 2318 $V,1., _, (;gx + .1- - ~., - .n e - 13313. edi.whetithelyseblealis'.: 8-n- ~ b - fNeuevkasstNJM hher fact. zs ;aze ibthefTexa(az'ea.; W m. g?. pgjg 4 e M m, f. ,M b, ~_ m -.. ~ a m; 3. m n ~ i.SS15 : No;mayfua115 have;al tieldi hearine at'-- thet E time.. M,, ', ; c Q :n. ~ j, . ( e _,_ a " / Byisillnesa,s W us r should: give'~ an ' opportunity. ioziall? -H 4..P fS. M !.2316 , y n ',W 0} 4 .. p ,,,' 9 s _ 4 r ~ 52317,toasties(:whef azadoomoezned:vith?this.mattez to : participate f,< .x .y ; 'L Mi* 7 fr2318 Czather :th,an -have"euz-zeooses. stem : totally Azem the yederal.- ~- s .7 s . m.,. y .3319 ? agencies? - W' a. 1 A - s. . - s. - - - ,[ E2320 lit might7say;that my concern'and;my-questions had rested to v ~ /w ' $2331 f algrantient'edtTon: some ' of the questiens Mt. ?Dannemeyer.'has - .. l t ', 12322,:saised. ;The:. problem is.that that nickel' het is ttalking. .1 .J 4 Ey4 L. 1 @j, labout.juhioh!I:pu.ess, roughly..wouldcbeleguivalent-to about s5 H s2323 ,c m. m, M[g U 2324 KaillioniperLaiskel----I s'upposa..'theiguestion zeally is uho
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- Zilue have'a' kind'offoost plus azzangement in dffect in.-
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+ ..'2327 zuhichfultimately the:zatepayez pays-it.'thezeiis'notaall r s.n ? n,,# m. ga - + . that(&.,inoentiv.e for;Szoun.and Root to strike'the best' L. 13324 + ,.,i s .c .. -J,. '5
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+ ' j '*1329 Leontsmeti:nozlengageJia the best-inspections. s I t o. Q M ~ ZsMzh Banteme.yez.;(Ontthatipoint, Mr. Chaizman.~I?am ju.st-, y 'y; ..w 7,330 w = n e. %Mi ^ 34.51 :askinN thisfoutloudibecause(21doinot knou. Inithe nu'eleari M W w - ~ wa7 -. o., -, a. .s,t' ~ ~n ... n EM t e. 2" '3:32issonstzustion plant 4 business!have= entities-like Nouston poues!. WNg:.. " n, s-m: t, - Mw. a 3:.: ,,e r + 4:' Wi *9 . e' d233? Man.,,.,.1;d::Ligh0.beenNableito getfoontzastors to - bidJ onia; fixed - ~ ~ ~ - .y .',N. ~ m.s. ~.i, 1., s/'V d' y..,.. >3 N -p 4 ,,.s.
- h. @ m,,1,12334 Joentractipziosybasisiez$has(itiall been cost-plu's?
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,. 9 KANs ?BEFS670801 % ( /p',,..'p,. , -[A('7 " ' '. ; n* n 4 ,e. 4,.n...,,. .g w s % m. PAGE? 1_944 C 4 4i c ... i .__m, o .p.+.',,. .w; w p xx .n n Ilie,meM know;ofianV. cases whereithese/has;,. e. n s ,,m. 9.,p. ?. a f $335t T '. JNakserisit. - Y W.m v,w .x w.. M;.j E ' p c.2$334 heen,a din, ed.paisaie~eatzset fial zesent yeass., 'Zajthe early M1 a 4 g,. w ,..g.< s., m~ o v 8; g -. v p ,,1 t.. ~,m a$337.c reams t ei ?the. aueleasj industzy. that uas c done; en. e' ossion.. s ~ ~- ~ r': g$~ s", , N 2334 These vere-turakey'.pzofeetsruhiekfuent;that way. w .x f Yc L~. MEl' q, .N s. w. 4$339 eiM, Theseiare.:ss;manyf complex 5isetoss-involve 5 in the ultimate ' 1s e m, .. ~. i ,m 3 .. a. :..., &a- '2340 (sest edLthese(plaats now that Z do not thiak e yhedy._vould r s t 4 q- -l 12341 he milling t'ojtake en]that-kindroi-Ja;oontract. ,j r m-Mr,. chaiza'an, = Z.suspectxthe':ansuez vould
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~2343 m 4. g 2344 :Govazament zagulato'usite change theiz'ainds fros. time. to 3. } =. F' 4 L3345 <tiseissite/uhat they:uant'in: order toiensure and protect the e publie'intezestland safetiy,'these is no_vay that.any is344 f. y
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.,.c t $344 basis. Z' suspect that.ueuld be theiaizesponse,?1ife being_ ~ -i ,234, O &',;..l. .uhat itzis. . i 5 j. < Thanh you, Mr.. chairinan. n
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x o, =Mr. Eckhardt.. Aze.there any.further questionst 2'~ 123S1 a.'- s 'w'; 12353 i.[No z'esponse.l! m o j~ .'*l '2353 my Gentlemen,.you havejbeen~most iorthcoming-in your answers ./. ~ a, -y e u and, help'ful tosthis committee'in dealing uith a terrifically-. 32354 3 w i 'a Gy ({ J,'J>;1385 ~ importants probl.am. :It: deals with;both safety and cost to e r /, j 3 ~- ~ r. su ~., .r.h..w q:{' e~ ;.
- w.. - ; '-g. - - (3354 lthe?publie.'c-We:zeoognisesuhat,a!zesponsibility you have.
y ~ d.i 13357 iMedn'ay have"someJadditional questions.and ue would like to
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a o y[g o [2340 Tedithk,Finderaf Govezamenk have 'a responsibility,vithL sospes't ~ 4 ^ s s L,,. -5 y M. 33'41..teitherefgue's'tions ei'. ultimate'. cost sf nuclear pro:leets. Z H + 11 _p 1> x_ Li '\\ s4, ~ q. m 9..' K; a. , ff_'12348 iteuched ea'that-ia someJ.ed^the questionstuaemaisedlheze.; .R o s> ~
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. TUESDAY, SEP,TEMBER 23,v1980 , PAGE... 'I 4 s 4 n i. STATENENT OF 40NNiF'.NAMEARNE,:CHAZRMAN,.U.S.:NUCLEA'R-RESULATORY CONMZSSION. P ~,a s PAGE...: 45 3- .e STAT!nEMT'0FLVICTOR STELLO,;JR.,jDIRECTOR, 0FFICE:0F ' i .34. LINSPECTION AND" ENFORCEMENT, NUCLEAR REGULATORY. COMMISSION ' ~ P AGE.... 47 ,f ,? _4 er. ~. ~ c-4.- s ~ a s ,( + h 9 w. A $ *. 4 _c 6 m f b ' I s, { t I P 2 >l i 'k4 e 'S I
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