ML19338B903
| ML19338B903 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/03/1979 |
| From: | Jason Wright PENNSYLVANIA, COMMONWEALTH OF |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001300384 | |
| Download: ML19338B903 (46) | |
Text
^ x COMMOIHiEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
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HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES IIOUSE SELECT Colei1TTEE - THREE MILE ISLAND In re:
Organi. ation Heeting of Cc=mittee
- Ve 9:
Verbatin record of necting held in the Maj ority Caucus Room, Main Capitol Building, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, en Thursday, IIay 3,1979 19:00 A. M.
HON, JAIES L. WRIGHT, JR., Chairnan lion. Lernard F. O'Erien, Vice Chairnan Hon. Nicholas B. Hochlmann, Vice Chairinan Hon. Eugene Geesey, Secretary
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i ICliBERS HOUSE SELECT CDPHITTEE - THREE MILE ISLAJD Ecu. James D. Zarber Hon. Stephen I. Lehr ilou. Reid L. Bennett Hon. Joseph C. Manailler I!cn.1:enneth E. Brandt ilon. 1arvin E. Miller IIon. Kennath J. Cole Hon. Harold F. Movery, Jr.
Hon. Ronald Cowell Hon. 101rtin P. Mullen lion. Mark Cohen Hon. Jeffrey E. Piccola Hon. Uilliam DeWeece Hon. Samuel Pappaport Hon. Rudolph Dininni Hon. Stcphen R. Reed Eca. Donald W. Dor r Hon. John E. Scheaffer Hon. A. Carvillo I'oa ter, Jr,
Hon. C. L. Schnitt Hon. Stephen F. Freiad Hon. Ted Stuban lion. Ivan Itkin Hon. Iloah U. Wenr,cr Hon. William K. I'. ling,anan Hon. Paul J. Yahner ALSO PRESE'IT:
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l Fred Taylcr, Councal i
Parchall Rock, Asst. Director of Research PDf Nbbf,#'AcbEltYs[rYbN2 Naistant f
Doraky M. MA Rea;,ter.J P.J. siomal Repo te.
135 S. LomJi, St
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a m m.I,to.n. p.mn,Aom;. i703o
2 CHAIRMAN WRIGFf:
Good morning.
This is our first meeting of the Select Committee regarding the incident at Three Mile Island.
As you know, the House passed a Resolution con-stituting this Committee and this morning is our first meeting.
As I understand the Resolution, this Committee has been charhed dth the duty to conduct 'a comprehensive inquiry into the nuclear accident at Three Mile Island and into other related matters in order to review the need for additional safety and regulatory procedures to study the effectiveness of existing civil defense, energency preparedness and evacuation procedures.
To determine nethods for improving coordination between federal, state and local units of government in the
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s event of future nuclear accidents.
To review the potential for health and safety hazards, to examine the role of nuclear power in meeting tha energy needs of the Commonwealth.
As an addendum to that some conversations have been started with he Lieutenant Governcr and the Governor'c Energy Council to develop for the State ef Pennsylvania an energy policy.
1,s you know, the subject of Three Mile Island is being studied by several committees.
There are two Senate ccm-aittees in ',lashington and two House committees in klashington which are addresning themselves to the subject, along vith the P00RORIGlWL
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President's Citizens' Committee.
You probably read about that in the newspaper.
Incidentally, I understand they will be in town this next week or the week after conducting some hearings in the Middletown araa.
I would point out c.on though the federal coccit-r...
..w tees are studying tha Three Mile Island incident, none of them are really directed to address theccelvec to the problems of Pennsylvania, the site of the nuclear accident.
Under the man-date given this Ccamittee by Resolution 48, I feel that it is the responsibility of the Committee to concentrate its efforts to look into the state's responsibility as regards the safety
<^3 of the public and the public's prcperty in case of future acci-L ';
dents :rch aa Tree Mile Is hnd.
Of course, basic to that is to look into the raspcraibility of the state regarding its powers to regulate *.be production of nuclear energy in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
At the outset, I do not believe that the purpose of thia Committee is to establich blane cr fault.
That is being atudied in Washington and as many of you know there are some legal precedents, both at the federal ly islative level and in the courto, which lofinas wilc has what responsibilities.
But I would po!.nt cut ant if ve do uncover anything, or if there is any suggestion,s blana rhould be plac?1 in certain areas, 9
P00R~0RBINn
4 1.,,
I think it is the responsibility, moral responsibility, of this Con.ittee to pass that en to the proper authorities.
I feel that this Ccznittee should concentrate its effcrts towards studying the problems of evacuation, people and animal safety.
The needs of business and commerce should evacuation have been necessary, the insurance responsibility'of the utiiities and the raspensibilities and capabilities for protecting the health of the citizena in the area of potential danger from nuclear accident.
I doul.: like to urge the Co. nittea to take a posi-tiva attitude toward this job.
Better to find out from this most recent experi mco what Pennsylvenia can do in cooperation i
with the Federal Government to cor? fully insure the safety cf its citinens.
I believe ic night be proper now to take an atten-dance record and to maker some introductions.
For the help of staff and for the public 2tenographer, as your name is called, would you raise your ':and er utana, m.c naLe future comments, at least or Ibe first week or two, sc ; hat we will all know each other, we identify ourselves befcre we make statetents or raise questions.
We have passed out to each member a folder.
I sug-gest you keep this folder, carry it back and forth to the meet-e P00R ORIGINAL L.
.w
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ings with you and you will be racoiving in.the mail and/or by messenger and at thase acetings additional material that you may want to kcap in the folder.
Gene Gaeaey, who is Secr9tary of tb3 Committee, are you preparad to call the roll?
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.. -.,.,.., y,, ;. w
>r (Roll call by Repreaentative Geesey.)
(The following members were present:
Janes L.
'iright, Jr., Nicholas E. Koehlmann, Bernard F. O'Brien, Gene Geesey, Janes Barber, Reid L. Bennett, Kenneth E. Brandt, Mark
- 3. Cohan, Kenneth J. Cola, Ronald R. Ccuell, 'filliam H. DeWesse, Rudolph Dininni, Jonald W. Dorr, A. Carville Fostor, Jr., Ivan f,,),
Itkin, Staphen I. Latr, Joseph C. Mansiller, Martin P. Mullen (excused), Samuel Rappa. port (excuced), John E. Scheaffar, Ted Stuban, lloah W. Wenger, Paul J. Yahner. )
CHAIR %iN hRIGHT:
Ne have a pretty good attendance.
!Tarvin ?!ille" is at H3aita and W lfire and he will be here.
REPRE33NTATIVE 3ARBEF:
Mr. Chairman, Representa-tive Schmitt will be lcwn ia a nir;ui;e and Reprocentative Reed is at Health and '.ielfare.
I would like to be excused if it is all right, at the monant.
CH.iIRMAM tiRIGHT:
Do you have everybody, Gene?
iT.:RESE"TATIV3 GJ.ESEY:
Yes, I do.
A P00RBREMR o.
6 F,
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CHAIRMMI WRIGHT:
Representative Cohen is here.
Staff wise, I am sure there is a lot of staff in the room.
I will proba.aly slight some, but I will just pick out those who have worded wil;h us to date.
Sitting on ay right la Fred Taylor, Lagal Counsel, m
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Peg Foran, AdministrItiva Assistant to the Mines and Energy Conmittee and will be helping us, Joe Miller and George Ellis, Staff of Mines and Energy, and the other one I would want to point out and use them -- Joe Miller and George Filis stand up.
Georga Ellis can ba found in Eernie O'Brien's office and Joe Miller through my office.
We alao nave wit.h us the Assistant Director of Re-(p~,!
search, who it not ilara at the moment, Marahall Rock.
He is the major-Geno who will be neading up r.uch of our efforts.
As you probably know, the officers of the Cenmittee, myself as Chairuun, Nick Moehlmann sitting to my left Vice Chairman, Bernie O'3rien to my right, Vice Chairaan, and Gene Geesey, Jocretary.
I have taken tne liberty of tentatively scheduling ourselves for the nn.: two veeks and we have ucme problems and problems acatly ;;enerated by the ileuringa that are going on in Washington, D.C.
Ue had originally planned to have Harold Denton here next Thursday and Friday.
He cannot make it, pri-
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Y P00R ORIGINAL 1
l
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a carily due to the conflict with Congressional hearings.
I sus-pect Metropolitan Edison has the same constraints en their time as thoce of Mr. Denton.
As I said, I have tentstively scheduled, with your blessing, I will continu? in this direction.
At 2:30 this e, r... a..
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afternoon Dr. Warren Witzig, a Professor and Head of the Depart-ment of Nuclear Engineering from Penn State University will be with us and his function this aftarnoon is primarily to give us an education in regard to nuclear power.
I have not scheduled hin to pass judgment on what happened, nor have I scheduled him to issue an opinion.
I would hope you would bear this in mind during this presentation.
If you have any questions to aek him af terwards, of cotese, that is a Committae Me=ber'3 own par-ticular choice, But I suspect at the outset that trany of us are no more informed on this technical natter than the averaga citizen
,. - +
u.,..,.
on the street.
I suspect most of us, and I didn't know myself until a week or so ago what the difference in beween a boiling water reactor and a pressurized system.
He will bo on board this afternoon.
There will be a allde presentation and he will attempt to, I guess, aducato us within an hour, hour and a half, two hours, what it took hiin to learn in the last aix, neven or eight years.
1 k'
l ay.. -
8 gG Incidentally, our screen will be set up at that end of the room.
There is a slide projector and a table down here to help in his presentation.
Tomorrew morning at 10:CO o' clock sharp we will be getting on a bus in the back of the Capitol to go down to Three
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Mila Island to get about an hour's tour of the establishment.
We will not be going into any contaminated areas.
You will not be required to suit up when you get there.
We took the liberty of getting all your social security nuabars, your names and addresses, ycur date of birth and other pertinent matters and we passed that on to the Metropolitan Edison yesterday after-noon so that the proper passes and applications and other
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bureaucratic paperwork can be in place.
It is my desire to have y:n i;nck ' ara at the back of the Capitol by 1:00 o' clock so that ycu can take off for hora.
It has been a long week and I think you aight as well plan on longer weeks as we progress.
I will tr:r to schedule hearings on Thursdays and Fridays.
I will not achedulo anything during primary election week.
I suspect the next ordar of business is to look at a suggested set of. rules that I and the legal staff ; ave de-veloped.
O E00RBRENR
9 It is not my intention to run this Committee with an iron hand, but I assume that there are days that we may wish to have a set of rules in place.
When the debates get long and lengthy or kiad of warm, not only to protect ourselves, one from each other, but to keep sone orderly conduct within the y
Any questions so far?
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
The only a' t that I think we ought to consider, I think that any Member :
uld have a right to recommend who appears before the Commi
_se, not just l
the Chairaan.
I'd rather see that taken out.
1 CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
What rule are you looking at?
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REPRE3ZMTATIVE O'PRIEN:
Number one, the Chairman
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shall have the power to ini".iate inquiries.
I think that should be that all Meobers nhould be in a position to recommend and to consider them.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
"No hearings or formal investi-gations shall be conducted without the approval of a majority of the Committee.
The Chairman shall have the power to ini-tiate inquiries regarding the appearance of appropriate wit-nesses before the Ccccittee, to schedule said invited witnesses; and to schedule uninvited witnesses who request to appear as the hearing schedule permits."
You mean, no hearings or formal f
10
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~j investigations shall be conducted without the approval of a majority of the Committee?
REFRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
We don't quarrci on that, but I think that any Member should have the right to recommend to the full Committee who would appear before the Committee, 4
too.
You'd have the final say.
But it would make it more democratic and more bipartisan.
I would like to consider that.
And then on number eight --
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Let me say, I have no ebjection.
Now what language do you want to add to that?
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
Just say that all Members shall have a right to initiate inquiries regarding _ae appear-r
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ance of appropriate witnesses before the Comuittee.
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REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
It's referring to somebody has to schedule those witnesses.
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
That is no problem.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
After the word Committee put a period and say, the Chairman shall schedule --
REPRESENTATIVE BENNETT:
Right.
We are not trying to take any powers away from the Chairman.
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
We recommend that any Member of the Committee can go to the Chairman and say, I real-ly think that this person should be a witness and I think that
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REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
May I re-read to you the amended rule?
(Reading)
No hearinds or formal investigations shall be conducted without the approval of the majority of the Ccamittee.
All Members shall have the power to initiate in-quiries regarding the appearance of appropriate witnesses before
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the Committee.
The Chairman shall schedule said invited wit-nesses and to schedule uninvited vitnesses who request or ap-pear as the hearing schedule permits.
(End of reading)
In that what you had in mind?
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
No objection to that.
CHAIRMAN 'nRIGHT: -Do we agree on that?
REFRE5ENTATIVE MILLER:
So move..
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P.EPRESD:TATIVE 0'DRIEN:
The cnly other change at this time, you have what ycu call majority legal counsel.
CHAIRMAN VRIGHT:
Number eight.
REFRESENTATIVE 0'BRIEN:
I would like to take
...... n minority out.
I am not considering minority legal counsel be-cause I would like this tc be really bipartisan and take the word minority out of there and we will go along with majority counsel.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Why don't you just say the Chairman of the Committee shall appoint?
REPRESENTATIVE 0'BRIEN:
Well, you have a legal o
P00ROMinit t
... >..l u e a
12
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V counsel now that we are satisfied that we can work with them at this time anyway.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
It was my intention to give you
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people of the minority a safeguard in case you thought I was misbehaving.
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.,.. n, REPRESENTATIVE REED:
If you are, we will tell you.
REPRESENTATIVE 0'BRIEN:
If you are nisbohaving, we'll go from there, but we don't want to work that way.
We want to make it bipartisan.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Do you want to take it out or do you just want to leave it the way it is?
REFRESENTATIVE 0'BRIEN:
Take the minority out and we will work with the majority legal counsel.
REFRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Shall we say, the Chairman of the Committee shall appoint --
REFRESENTpTIVE0'BRIEN:
Why don't you put it that way, a legal counsel --
REFRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
And such other staff per-sonnel.
REPRESENTATIVE O'ERIEN:
The Committee is almost evenly divided and it la bipartisan and we would like it to re-main that way.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
I assume most of you follows know l
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P00R ORIGINAL l.
13 O
V me by now.
Bernie and I have worked together for a number of years.
There will be no partisanship on this Committee and there never has been on any committee that we have worked on.
But I thought we would put it in there in case you or any Members -- do you have that?
3.,m.
.<,r REPRESENTATIVE GEE 3EY:
Let me read it.
The Chairman of the Committee shall appoint a legal:counselrand such other staff personnel as necessary to accomplish the work.
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
All right.
Other than tnat, I agree with all the rest.
If any of the other Members have anything, I would make a motion to approve it.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
Mr. Chairman?
IV)
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Representative Cohen.
REPRESENTATIVE C0HEU:
Last night I looked over these rules and I have come up with some suggestions which I think would ht
- o create the climate of bipartisanship we desire and would clchr up ambigaities which probably were un-intended.
The first amendment to section one I have, I think everybcdy here has gotten the document.
Is there anybody who i
doesn't have a copy of it?
REPRESENTATIVE REED:
You're saying number one?
REFRESENTATIVE COHEN:
Yes.
I have got t"o separate amendments for that.
There is nothing in this section that q
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P00R ORGlHAL
14 shall prevent Committee Members from seeking information from informed sources and asking such sources whether they wish to appear as a witness if the invitatica were made.
That is just in response to the possible interpreta-tion if no hearings or formal investigations shall be conducted withouttheapprovalofthemajerityofth'eCommit$Ao,'Iamnot sure what formal investigation is and I think it states clear what a formal investigation la not.
CHAIRMMI WRIGHT:
Mark, you feel that we did not clear that up?
You reme::ber that we already accepted it.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHE'i:
I think it was a different issue. I/r. Chairman.
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REPRESEIITATI7E BENNETT:
Ilark, tell us in plain language what you want us to do?
REPRESENTATIVE CCHE?I:
I want to make it clear if I or anycne else on this Ccamittee initiates an inquiry to any-body who might know anything about the scope of this inve tiga-tion, that I am not violating tha rules of the Committee by doing so.
REP.tESENTATIVE GIESEY:
No, you are not.
No hear-ings or formal investigaticns shall be conducted.
REPRESENTATIVE COHEN:
It does not define what a formal investigation is.
700101BlR m-
15 REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
It says conducted, Mark.
REPRESTNTATIVE COHEN:
It does not defina what con-ducted meana.
~' iculd like to make --
REF11E 3ENTATIVE GEESEY:
It is a formal haering something like chis where witnesses were here.
You can, as I have, go out and determine any kird of information you wish' t'o determine on your cwn right.
You can initiate that and that is really what you are talking about.
But it says conducted, you knew what cenaucted meana.
REF3EJENTATIVE COHEN:
I really don't.
Conducted 13 not a normal ward that I use.
I think that thi.1 language --
C 1 AIR:4.tN WRIGHT:
I am going to suggest that we are t
perhaps being a little redundant,
~2u-I sae nothin ; wrong with that language.
REPRESPITNTIVE COHEU:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
REPRESE:rI ATIVE MOEHL:4 ANN:
The mere fact that.one doesn't use a cer',ctn word in :lis vocabulary dcean't indicate that it doesn' t h:<ve a definite w aning.
CHAIR:4AII WRIGHT:
I'n.;oing t, au3 gest that we in-clude Mark's suggastion.
l REFRESE:!TATIVE BE:!METI:
I'll secor.d it.
CliAITd:A i WRIGHT:
Anytody object?
REPREJEUTATIVE MOEHIl4ANII:
Yes, I do.
P00R ORGINAL
16 CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Anybody alse object?
UNIDEICIi'IED 3FEAK31:
I do.
CHAIR:G; LRIGHT:
Anybody elae?
EEP.:1E3:I!? RIVE MOEMD'AUN:
I dcn't strongly object, but I think it is conpletely unnecessary and clutters up what is a sim_ ole set of rulen.
REPRESENTATIVE 0'3RIEN:
What do you want to de, eliminate the word -- I really don't know what we are trying to got at.
REPRESEI;TATIVE CCHEU:
Okay, I uculd say alternative approach if you want ta shorton the cpace.
Cut cut the phrase or foraal: investigation.
If a hearing is the selne thing as a s
1 formal invastigation, like we conduct a public hearing, then I sssur.e a formal investigation is comathing other 'chan a hearing.
Jut if it is not, if a formal investigation is a hearing, as Mr. Moehlmann indicated, I uaulu suggest we just cross cut for-mal investigation.
REPREdiNTATIVi' GEE 3EY:
Mark, because an individual
- eaber of tnis Cocaitt ee or for that matter any Meaber of the House can cc iduct any kind of an informal hearing he wishes in his own right.
But as far as the Committee is concerned there has to be some overall formal direction taken by the Members as a whole and that is all that is referring to.
It does not pro-s P00R BRIGINAL
17 clude you frem taking any individual initiative that you want and bringing those individual initiat Lves up at a Committee meeting.
That la all it la saying.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
He have taken cara of the problem uith wit-nesses at the roccamendation of Representative O' Brian.
I don't cae where ve are Going with this.
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REPRES.iliTATIVE C 'bRII.!:
Xark, if I decided as the minority to take four or five lleiaers and go out and conduct our own her. ring, it 'rould be wrong b2causs I am part of this hearing-REPRESEti"'ATIVE COHEN:
This does not deal with
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hearings.
v' 23Pi? 3SENTk21VI: 7ftANDT:
I think where Mark's sug-gested amoniwn' is jett;ng is i.. tha first sentcnce of section one, if you unnt to call it section one or number one, "shall be conducted with:uc the apj;roval of a najority of the Conmit-tee."
- !ow I c...nh tre t; la cuita important b2cause ue've got a deadline on thia Co:2rittee of 6/1 I think it is very 1.2portant that onyone of us cote up with information such as Mark sug.ested in his emendment, information or an individual g
that can give this Conmittee information that I think, I kncw I, as one Member, would like to hear frora the Chairman, if he P00RORSNAL
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18 approves that individual, that information we can decide on that by a vote if we went that information bofera us.
Maybe a.n we go down the liaa there may be informa-tion that might be redun hnt or we he3rd that story before, so to speak, and thia is why I object to that lenguage.
I think 4
e
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vie, as tha Coccittee, rhould be able to decide who should come before the Committee.
CHAIR >i/JI *, RIGHT:
Representative Cole.
REFRZ3L'iT/,TIVE COLU:
I agrce vite what Reprocenta-tive Brandt naa stated, but I think ne is nisinterpreting Representative Cohen's language.
Mark's anendaant would not
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allow anySIeaber, any lan ytdual '!eacar, to unilaterally sched-o ule sonabcdy.oag,w r re thi, nJuring.
I think what Marl:
is tryinl; to da L3,' u s
.aka it very clear, and perhaps he in teing redundent, nemettres that doesn't nurt, trying to make it very clear that none of us is precluded frca going out and 1
apeaking with a nuclear expert, una lives in our district or an acquaintance, uno might work at M ee Lile Island, none of us vould be precluded frc.a saying, if you get a fcrmal invita-tion. from the a.a.j city of the Cammitace, would you be willing to testify?
I m;e no har:a in h'.n emendment.
I would hope we would adopt it.
j CHAIRM G 'iRIGHT:
Peck Foster.
P00R~DRQN1 f
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REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER:
Peck Foster, York County.
as I read this, I ;juut can't understand what we're gotting at.
Nothing in this acetion shall prevent Committee Members from aceking information fron informed sources.
How can anyone prevent us from doing that's s
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REPRESUTATI'IE MOEHU4 ANN:
That's in the United Statr Constitution.
REPRE3ENTATIVE FOSTER:
And asking such sources whether they would appear as a witnesc if an invitation were made.
Well nobody can prevent us from doing that.
But even if we incorporate this inta the suggested rules, if a majority of the Con =ittee d9cided that wa are going to limit testinony
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in sema way, we are going to limit testi=cny in some way.
I don't see that it serves a purpose.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
If it doesn't servo a pur-pc30, then what is all the objection to it?
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
I would suggest that, Mark has got an acendment on the floor, let's have a voto on it.
'lould 70u call the roll?
RCPRESEMTATIVE MIILER:
Mr. Chairman, Mary Miller from Lancaster County.
'lill it be the intent of the Chaircan or the Co-Chairman of the Committee to at any point in time recommend to the Committee that we go to the full floor asking I
t
20 for any sort of formal investigative powers, subpoena power, that sort of thing?
If it is, this languago could beccme very significant.
CI!AIRMMI WRIGHT:
I do not foresee at this point a need for subpoena pover.
I am not precluding the fact that
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at soma point in the future we may have to.
If we have to, then obviously we will introduce a resolution on the floor to provide us with subpoena power.
REP!E3EIITATIVE MILLER:
Having served on committoes of this sort in the paat, if that option is going to stay cpen to the Committao, that wa do rn @ct this language because that 7~
has to be;a very coordinated procedure and it is a whole dif-t
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forent ball gans :;han coneone just infornally speaking to an individual about information.
CHAIRfAI WRIGHT:
Let'3 have a brief recess.
(Brief recess.).
P:0R~0RGNAL CIIAIII'4AN '..' RIG"I:
We cre bacz in seasion.
REPR"3FJITATI7E C0!!EII:
?Ir. Ch:tirman, at the re-quest of Mr. C'Drion I will withdraw the amendment.
CHAIR?!All WRICHT:
The Chair recognizes Representa-tive Cohan.
IIEPRE3EMTATIVE CCHEN:
The second amendment I have
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'J is it shall take a vote of Committee Members with all Committeo Members invited and a majority of the Committeo Membora present to dany tha raquast of a Member for a uitnass to be heard.
REPRESENTATIVE REED:
What rule is that?
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
This is added to section one.
So that while'th'e' Chair 8an s'chedule witnesses,"I think' it' 1:i' a great presumption, unless there is n vote of the Comnittee, that a witness can be heard.
REFRESEUTATIVE BRANDT:
Right back to what I said, Mark.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
The first sentence does not specifically deal with witnesses.
(__ )
REPRESDITATIVE MOE!IDfAUN:
Mark, does this mean
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that c cadority of the Committee Members must be prosent in order to vote on the denial o: however many Members are there, a majority of those?
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEU:
'I would like the majority to be present, that a majority of the majority.
REPICSENTATIVE GEESEY:
Mark, cay I read to you the amended rule?
REPRESENTATIVE COHEN:
The amended rule.
REPRESENTATIVE GEE 3EY:
Amended rule one.
We care-fully amended this rule now.
The amended rule one, new listen P00R ORGlNAL
r 22 very carefully (reading) All members shall have the power to initiate inquirica regarding tha appearance of appropriate wit-nesses before the Committee.
The Chairman shall schedule said invited witnesses; and to schedule uninvited witnesses who re-quest to appear as tha hearing schedule permits.
(end of
. i.
REPRESENIATIVE CCHEU:
Ckay, what happens if a Mem-bor requests somebody to ccme and the Chairman says no?
Does the Member have cny recoln'so?
REFRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
It doesn't say here that the Chairman can nay no.
REPRESENTATIVE COHEN:
Mr. Chairman, is that your ccnstruction of it, that you cannot any no to a request?
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
Then if that is your instruc-tion on it --
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEM:
I think that 13 $ hat my motien fac.
I mnt overy Member to have that right.
REPRZ3ENTATIVE COHEN:
Th-t was not in writing and I did not know your intention.
Section two, is there an'f objection to this?
All Members must be invited to any public or executive session.
CHAIrd4AN VRIGHT:
Are there any objections to Mr.
c P00R BRGNAL i
23 Cohen's section two amendment?
REPRESEUTATIVE BENNETT:
You are adding the langu-ago --
REPRESE'iTATIVE 0'BRIEII:
I don't have the amendment.
REPRESENTATI7E BI2iNETT:
You are adding the langu-ade all Members shall be invited?
REPRESENTATIVE COHEN:
That is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE COWELL:
Isn't that already required under the Sunshine Law?
CHAIR?LC WRIGHT:
Yes.
REPREJE"TATIVE MILLER:
Executive Sessions are not g
covered.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
Exocutive Scasicns are not covered Mr.
I'. iller says.
)
b are REPRE3EMTATIVE GEESEY:
ucu allowed E::ocutive Sessicas.
CHAIR'iAN VRIC:iT:
That is one of my thoughts, too.
REFRESINEATIVE 0'ERIEN:
My idea is what I thinic in the purpose of the three Membora that this Cocnittee may be brokon up into subcomnittees, and I en only talking to Jim, I didn't talk to you on it, whether you are going to do it or not do it.
But in case they do it and they say Health and Wol-fare goes out, there will be a subcommittee chairman and two
24 7(V other Members will be legally able to conduct a hearing without cvery Member being present.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
On committees which I served, the subcommittees need all the members who want to come, are invited to those meetings.
.- 4 REFRESENTATIVE 0'ERIEN:
Well, I don't see -- you wouldn't object to that if they want to go?
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
I have no objection to even add-ing the language, but you have got my personal pledge that even if we do break up into subcommittees, you have my personal pledge that all Members of the Committee will be entitled to attend any end every session, whether it be a subcommittee, in an Executive Session or an open sosuion.
REPRESENTATIVE COHEN:
I was a bit concerned, I have been on numerous committees before and I never came to an opening session with the rules presented.
You know, I come with rules presented and I assume we are going to operate by the rules and not on personal pledges.
REPRESENTATIVE CEE3EY:
Do you understand the prob-len here?
The problem is that to make the Members of this Committee availabic to all of the people we are going to have to go into evening meetings in various arces, we aro going to have to go to Saturday morning meetings in various areas, in n
s,/
P00R ORIGINAL
25
)
all probability.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Well, I never said that.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
But three of us, who era local, can do that while most other Members can't.
And the only idea is to make ourselves available to the guy that has got to go in every day and punch a clock and still wants to testify before the Committee.
That is the only purpose of that.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
Okay, well then I see no reason why it can't say --
REPRESE'ITATIVE BD!NETT:
Mr. Chairman, I move we accept his amendment so we can get going here.
c)
CHAIRM/J! WRIGHT:
Let's pass this amendment.
Any ob;)ections?
REPRESENTATIVE O'BRIEN:
I second the amendment.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Next, Mark.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
This amends, the next one in order, I'll go in the order it is printed on the sheet.
It amends section nine, I'm sorry, it amends section ten.
REPRESENTisTIVE BENNETT:
Ten?
REPRESENT /iTIVE COHEN:
Yes.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
What happened to nine?
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
I'm sorry, nine.
Committee P00R~0RGNAL i
26
.~
)
IIembers shell be recognizt.? in the order of desire expressed to be recognized with the exception that no two Members of any party shall be recognized consecutively if a Liamber of the other party, who has not previously been recogniz5d, and what ground of the questioning he desires recognition.
REPRESENTATIVE O'ERIEN:
I object to that because you are making it bipartJsan and that is the one part I object to.
I object to that amendment.
I don't want bipartisan.
If it seems to be getting that way, then, you know, we can reor-ganize.
But I object to that.
CHAIRILG '. FRIGHT:
I'm having a littic trouble with that too,: Mark.
I second Bernie's comments.
(
)
v' REPRESENTATIVE BE!RIETT:
Mr. Chairman, if I might, I would just like to remark on that m3 tion and I have chaired mny, many meetings, Mark.
And for me to delineate from Republican to Democrat, if two Republicans have the same thought and one wou.Ld follow through on that thought, I'll be darned if I can see stopping one because he is one party or the other.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHE'I:
Ckay.
REFRESENTATIVE 0' BRIE'I:
I was told I said biparti-san, I meant partican and I want not to get politics involved in this thing.
REFRESENTATIVE COMEN:
Section ten, the 30 minute P00R ORG NAL
27 C,
rule.
We have 30 Members on this Committee and they are con-scientious Members.
Now if 30 Moabers speak for 30 minutes, that is 900 minutes L c one witness.
Now 900 minutes is 13 hours1.50463e-4 days <br />0.00361 hours <br />2.149471e-5 weeks <br />4.9465e-6 months <br />.
I think that the 30 minute rule is kind of excessive.
It was the 30 =inute rule, frankly, that made se interested in
' ~
sc ction 'nine. ' 3ecause' it is' tlieoretiMa'llf possible, ' I am 'noii
saying this would happan, but it is theoretically possible to stop Members from speaking by having five or six Members in a row speek for 30 minutes and uear everybody out.
Uven tan minutes,'<hich is what this suggests.
For 30 Membora, it is 300 minutes or five hours.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Mr. Cohen, are you aware py
\\_)
of the fact that the House has 203 Members.
Are yca aware of the fact that on the floor of the House there is not a time limit for speaking or the part of any of the Mcabera and that if any Member so decided, all 203, they could take that floor
~
~
and speak as 1cag as they uant.
I' don't think we'have any
~
ri';ht, if that is the rule of the House, in the conduct of this operation to liott any Member to nny given time limit.
Thirty minutes is fine with me, but I certainly don't think we oud t h
to limit it to ten minutes because I think that is just a lit-tle too restrictive for some cf the Members of this Committea.
REPRESENTATIVE COI EII:
ile want for six amendments n.
P00R ORIGINAL wh 8
4
28 g
)
u-in 25 minutes, that was less than five minutes per amendment.
CHAIR %C 'aIGHT:
I don't think I'm going to take part in this conversation at all.
I tried to be extremely liberal in allowing t;he time.
If Mark wants to tighten it up --
REPRESENTATIVE CO:lEN:
Well, Mr. Chairman, if we could strike then 30 minutes.
Iamdisturbed$boutstatingin the rules each Member is specifically allowed 30 minutes.
REPRESENTATIVE MOEHDIANN:
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN '#RIGiH:
Representative Moehlmann.
REPRE3ENTATIVE MOEHDIAUU:
I hind of like this amendment.
The time limit is followed by the language, the g
Chairman may extend the time allowed providing no objection is being rained by any Committee Member, etc., which really makes the ton minute limitation very little more than a suggestion.
I like the suggestion of ten minutes per person a whole lot better than I like the suggestion of 30 minutes per person.
REERESENTATIVE BARBER:
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR M I'RICHT:
Representative Barber.
REPRESEUTATIVE 3ARBER:
In my opinion, I think it should be left up to the Chairman period.
I have chaired many meetings.
If I want to cut anyone off, give them three minutes, I have that privilege.
I am not for the ten minutes, I am not for the 30 minutes.
If the Chairman says you can speak for an O
m 700R B1 M
29 m.
J hour, I think we should be able to speak for an hour.
I think that is up to the Chairman pericd.
CUAIid:AU tRIGHT:
I would prefer the rules to have some directions for me.
I, frankly, don't want to be caught in the middle. of that kind of a decision I would rather have
..,.:.,,,,,.n..
.,.v
..c a rule.
REFRESENTATIVE 3MlBER:
We have a rule, such as the Chairman said, in the late of the evening, you would have the jurisdiction to, it is late, people are leaving, for some reason like that.
To me it is very important that a time, that a Member may have to catch a train or something.
If we went over to the Commonwealth, I think it should be left up to you.
I can't see anything wrong with that.
I don't think the avarage person would speak 30 minutes.
REPRESENTATIVE CCHEN:
We specifically have in the rules he is allowed 30 minutes.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
Representative Dininni.
REPRESE F CIVE DIUINUI:
I agree with that argument.
I chaired a very.
artant ccamittue in the past which ran al-most a year.
In the aiddle of our hearings, we had to amend our rules which read a half hour, and I am not saying this is the case that this would happen in this case.
Yet, you do have certain members that got carried away with thecselves when nv P00R ORIGINAL 9Y Q
r&
fOf
30 there is a tolovision camera on them, which to me, is not right.
I think the ten minute rule should vin.
I ask for a roll call vote on this particular amendment since ve are in-volved.
CHAIRMAN VRIGHT:
Any additional comments?
REPRESEI;TATIVE MAUMILLER:
I have a question.
Would this allow one Member to yield his time to another Member?
REPRESENTATIVE BENNETT:
That is in the rules of the House, of course, you can.
REPRESSITATIVE COHSJ:
I would assume it would.
CHAIRM.U! WRIGHT:
I am getting two comments from my solicitors.
Cns says it is in the rules of the House and the i
'J othar one says that it is the Chairman prerogative.
REPRESSITATI72 MOEHI14/diU:
We like the one that says it is the Chairman's prerogative.
REPRESENTATIVE BAR3ER:
You are conting back to what I just said.
REPRE.3ENTATIVE BRANDT:
The bus leaves at 10:00 o' clock tomorrcw morning.
CHAIR'IAN VRIGHT:
The request was cade for roll call.
Representative Itkin.
REPRESS!TATIVE ITKIM:
I am concerned about adopt-ing the Cohen amendment.
It seems to ne the purpcse of this I
~
P00RDliinlint
~~t
31
(
..(m
')
Committee is to find the facts and I seriously doubt that on the basis of three questions of a witness dealing with a broad subject matter that any Member is sufficiently knowledgeable in that line of inquiry as to get anything relevant to this Committee.
I would prefer to accept the Chairman's recommenda-tion as it procontly is constituted in his suG6ested' rules.
If this does boccT.e a problem, I would then suggest that we t
then consider at a subsequent time to revise the rules.
If we all see that it is beccming an unnecessary burden, then we will recognize it ac cuch anc. :e will deal with it at that time.
But I would not want to imduly restrict the oppcrtunity of any Member to propound a serie:: of important questions befora a r' )
witness in order to extract meaningfu2 testimony.
V CH.GiAN WICEr:
Any other comments frca the Ccamittee?
11ETRESENTATIVE 2ENUETT: Mr. Chairman, I think we are just arguing needlescly and foolishly.
The Chairman, under the rules, has the right to run thic: Committee the way he sees fit.
If 3cceane Geta un and wanta to filibuster, any Member can raise n objection and the Chair has to rule him out of order, if he goes 30 minutes or 40 minutes or whatever.
I think it is ridiculcus, you got 30 minutes in there, let's just leave it at -hat.
If someone objects to it, then this (s
3 Q,l P00R~0 REM.
- ~ ~ - -
~ ~ ~ - ~ '
32 e
f '.
I person has to shut up and sit down.
CilAIFJL'di VRIGITf:
Ue have a request for a roll call.
Gene.
REPRESIITATIVE GEESEi':
Representative '. fright.
CHAIRRUI WRIGHT:
Mc.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Representative Moehlmann.
REPRESEIiTATI7E MOEHDI/OTII:
Yes.
REPRESEIITATIVE GEESEY:
O'Brien.
. w,,z u h,,..,
,h.
O, D _.,..,l,s.z..
,10.
.1..
REPRE3EIITATIVE GCESEY:
Ceesey, no.
Jarber.
REPPZ.22;TATIVE BARBER:
IIo.
REFRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Eennett.
f
'd REPRESE;iTATIVE BEIEETT:
IIo.
REPRESEIITATIVE GEESEY:
Brandt.
REFRE3ENTATIVE BRANDT:
No.
REPRE':EliTATIVE GCEJEY:
Cohen.
.a, L,.,,.I I...,,, C.. -,, :
os.
....r c. t n
a - cs.,
-,f.
.. t. 3.., - -ci,.,,-_......,r,
.,,a,. c,
3 m o.-.
g q
.q...m.
, gp... m. 7,.r -,
,,n r e.
.0.
,Ji
\\q
. -. ~.
RE'RZ3ENTATIVE GEESEY:
Cowell.
REFRE.5ENTATIVE CO* JELL:
Ho.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Deh'ees e.
REPPISENTATIVE DcVEESF:
ilo.
O s
33
('t)
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Dininni.
REPRESSiTATIVE DINIITNI:
Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Dorr.
REPRESENTATIVE DCRR:
No.
REPRESE'ITATIVE GEESEY:
Foster.
~ ' '
" REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER:
No.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEf:
Freind.
(No responso.)
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Itkin.
REPRESENTATIVE ITKIN:
No.
REPRE3E'1TATIVE GEESEY:
Klingaman.
(No respcnse.)
REPbESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Do you give up yet, Mark?
REPRESDITATIVE COMEN:
No.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Lelu'.
REFRESENTATIVE LEHR:
No.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Manmiller.
REPRESENIATIVE MANMIT.TE:
No.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Miller.
(No response.)
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Mowery.
(No response.)
REPRESS!TATIVE GEESEY:
Mullen, Piccola, Rappaport, ie
34 Reed, Scheaffer.
(Ho response.)
REPRESENTATIVE SCHMITT:
I vote for (inaudible).
REF:ESE':TATIVE GE2SEY:
5tuben.
REPRESENTATIVE STU3/J :
No.
REPRESE!;TATIVE GEEEl:
Wenger.
(No response.)
REPRECEriTATr/E GEESEY:
Yahner.
REPRESSI!TXJ.IV3 Yldi!ER:
Ho.
REPREE_i:HTATIVE GEE 3EY:
3eventeen noes.
CHAIR:11U 'aIG:iT:
- !oxt item, Mark.
REPRE3C;TATIVE CCHEN:
This goes back to secticn five n w.:
It says all witnesses shall present a writton state-m I
l cent prior to the hearin;; in accordance with the schedulo as catablished by the Chairman.
My change is all witnesses shall be requested by the Chairman to present a wra.tten statocent prior to the hear-ing in accordance with the schedule established by the Chair-man provided auch witnas.:en are ecplcyed by governmental agen-cies or by conccrns which provide free accretarial service to cuch vitnceson for ':he 7trpcao of testifying.
'litnesses with-out free necretarial acrvice at their disposal shall be in-formed that written tastimeny 10 preferred by Members of this Cocmittee, but they are not required to provide it.
c P0DR~0RIGINAL
35 AU This is to allow farmers, housewives, other people who may not have secretarial service at their disposal, other people uno may r.ot be able to afford to hire a secretary to allow them to tactify.
A relatively small percentage of people in this society havs secretarial.3ervice.
Of those who do not have secretarial servico, a relatively small percentage Imow how to type thauselves.
That is what the purpose of this amend-ment is.
I think it is to allow a broader class of people to become witnessos before this Ccclittee.
CHAIRMAtl WRIGHT:
Any coments?
REPRESENTATIV2 C'BRIEti:
I make a notion that we accept that.
I see no problem with that.
V REPRE3E~!TATI7I COIELL:
I soccnd that.
REPRESE:ITATI"E DIIIINUI:
I have a questioa, Mr.
Chaiman.
1 CHAIRM/di URIGHT:
Representative Dininni.
i REPRE3ENTI.TI7E DININITI:
In that section why do we even have that they raust have a written statement?
This is the first time I have ever heard of that at public hearings.
REP 2ESE?:T/.TIVE 0' ORIEN:
It takes it easier for the court stenotraphor.
REFE3ENTATIVE 31UEAU:
It mit;ht scare a lot of people away that nir;ht possibly give you.cc=e infor:ation.
i b')
\\d P00R ORIGINAL
36 V'
Some guy that has come knowledge and he doesn't have a socre-tary and has to find accebody to typo up a statement, ho might not CCUO.
REPRESEIIT/,TI7E It!JII4 ILLER:
I think it shouM read where possible.
REPRESCITATIVE F0EHIliANN:
Mr. Chairman.
CHAI!UMN WRIC!iT:
Representativo Mochimann.
REPRE6E:1TATIVE MOEHDIANN:
I move this amenduent be accepted.
CHAIRMA!! WRIGHT:
Representativo Foster.
REFRESE!ITATI7E POSTER:
Couldn't we just acccaplish the same thing by caying all witncesca shall be encouraged to n
i V
p~osent a 'citten statemnt prior to tha hearings.
REPRESRITATI7E 0'BRIICT:
That night be even better.
REPRESEI!TATIVE CCHEN:
Okay.
CIIAIR>1/JI ',TRIGHT:
You are cuggesting, Mr. Fostor, that the first line of Representative Cohen's amendment chall read, all witneasca chall be encouraged?
REPRESE:ITATIVE FC3"ER:
Of the suggested Comittee rules, all witncases ahall be encouraged to present a written statement prior to tha h3arings in accordance with the schedule as established by the Chairnan.
That would do what Mark is trying to do here to try to see that we get written tenticony, P00R~0RIGINAL
37 g
\\..
m but it doesn't make it mandatory that they present written tectimony-RCPREGE'iTATI7E CCH'01:
That is acceptable to me.
I adrire brevity.
CHALT4AII ',IRIGHT:
Is that acceptable to everybody?
REPRESC;TATIVE 0'BRIEU:
I second it.
CHALU~AM ',lRIGHT:
Next.
E1EEiiESEUTATIE COMEN:
The last one createn a new secticn it.
- t talkc about the casponcibil:.ty of ti:
Chairman.
The purpose of thi is to infer: Fembora of the Co:rz.ittee, I acsume it will be done anyway, but it Ins been the decision that we want to specify everything in writing in this beginning.
c e
4 i
So I think this vould be accething worthwhile, it chould be specified.
It shall be the responsibility of the Chairman to supply each Medcer uith tne titles of any books, reports or other docunents recalved, and to Jupply copies of any such backs, rapart:: cr o^: hor,;c = enta of loca *hnn FC puges to any Mcicer vzho rccuos ta cuch copy.
Correspendenc2 of the Chairman relating to hia duties ru: Chair:2n chall b3 available to Com-mittee Mschers during normal working hou s at the Chairman's Harrisburg office.
CHAIRMdl! 'IRIGHT:
Any comments?
9 P00R 031GINAL t
38
)
m REFRESEliTATIVE 0'BRID!:
I nove that we accept that.
'de're going te do it anyway.
REFRESD!TATIVE GEESEY:
Semo of it is no problem.
Let's auppoco a witness appeared before the Committee, gives the Chairman a copy of a document.
!!ou is the Chairman then 6-going to find 29 other copies of that document?
REPRESEI;TATIVE COHE:l:
Xerox it.
REPRESENTATIVE GEESirl:
In he supposed to xerox it?
Do you know Crat the cost of ::eroxing 137 That is one of my pct p3evec in thin operation.
I thirJ: it can ba made avail-
$1c.
I have no problems with that.
RCPRESETITATIVE C0!IE.'It Mr. Geesey, I auggest it
,e O
chall list the titics of.
30 if there in auch a statement, all this requires 13, that he list the title of such a state-aent --
.REPRESE.'!TATIVE CEECEY:
I don't have any problem with that.
REPREU3!TATIV' CCHE'!:
And then it 'culd bc up to a.'Ienbar te roquart a c:7y of it.
REPREGETIT A.TIVE CCESEY:
Are you saytu; then to de-loto and to au?p1'/ cuch copies of such books?
REERECE'ITATIVE CCI!E:l:
To any I1 ember uho requests auch copy, I think that will drastically limit it, from my P00R 0R E l
39
% m##
experience.
I uould seriously doubt thoro will be 30 Members that will say I want a copy cf it.
I seriously dcubt there vould be fiva Members who would request a copy of it.
You reach a point wh2re you got overtih91:ed with paper.
Anybody sees my desk sacs that I often reach that point.
I think other Members who are wiser than no avoid thene problems by never requesting such infornation.
CHAIRIMN 'dRIGHT:
Any other cccments from the Committee?
Representative Dorr.
RI:FRESEI;TATIVE DORR:
J10, I would like to hear your concents on the latter part of that.
I could perceive 7-nnne difficultica on that from the Chaircan's point of view.
r s,
s_,/
I don't know that +,here will be any ob.jection on the part of sc=2 body writia; to ycu about other IIambers seeing it, but I wonder about it.
I think that maybe ther3 ought to be some control pl:1ced cn that on tha part of the parson writing to you.
If h' c Icing to ba a part of the public record so to speak.
I have no cbjecticn if you don't.
C:: AIR:1.UI ';RIGHT:
I don't havo any objection.
Any other 7: cabers of the Cormittee h2ve cocaentc?
TIIRESEI;TATIE DCRR:
1 do think there ought to be some indication civen to paople who are correcponding wit'a you that it is a part of the public record, maybe a set of rules t
P00R OR M l
b0 g
(v) could be given to overybody who testifies or acmothing like that, so that they know that there is such correspondence.
Cl!/.IR W! NRIGHT:
I thin'; there is some indication in the Federal Court that overything in our filing cabinets is public informatien.
Presidant Ulxon found that out, didn't he?
Do we want to accept this rule?
REF.CE'ITATI'B O' ERIE!I:
I make a notion that we acce.7t it.
REME512!I'ATIVE 13ENHETT:
I second it.
CHAIRP.'ll iRIGliT:
The rule is accepted.
F,C3GSI::IT.iTIVE CCHEU:
Thark you, :Ir. Chairnan.
,F.iII:!J! '..REI".':
.iny other ccar.cnts On the rules
,o,
%._/
as amen?.cd?
RET.753?,NTATI'IE IEI'I:
11r. Chairman.
C:II.IiUfAN iiRICET:
Rapresentative Itkin.
RZFRESENTAT!'E ITKIN:
'h'.
Chairman, I really don' t
%n:u wheth]r th2.3 13 the appropriate tir.e to bring this up.
I lid act thinh that thi,3 meetind today was going to be of the foraal c':aractar t:::r; haa o:curcad.
I don't vant to belabor at chi.I particular ;ima che antiro :aaa::ership of this Cot:rnittee, Ir.it uhat I *.voul.1 7 ke to do
.'.3 authorizo the Chairman and rai-nority '/ loc Ciniruan to be es70wered to consider the appoint-ment of aubcommittoas and the rules do not provido for this and s
P00RBRIEL
41 therefore I am bringing it up at this t!me.
I think that the scope of this Committee, as the Roaolution which created us, is extremely bread and requires us to go into substantial areas of incuiry many of which have no relation to each other.
I have tried to thitd; about how this Committee could expedite the voluminous amounts of inquiry and testimony'id or'er to' arrive d
at what the facts are.
I au concerned about a 30 member Committee, you know, investigating all facets in tha desolution s/nich goes anf..'here from environacntal health, emergency preparedness, to reactor safety, to long term economic benefita.
I just don't (y
see how in a cohesive manner that a full committee can really
~
accomnlish a tank in trying to coma down to the specific recom-ut.ndations that I th].nk this C0mmiitae has the responsibility to provide.
For examplo, I would think that an appropriate divi-sion mi;;ht be a subcommittee ca environment, health and radia-tion protection; a subecmaittaa en emarp;ncy preparednass; a sub--
commit 3c0 on Oc;nomic impact; a cubccamittee cn reactor safety.
M r.3 theae suggestions are not whetted in stone and I don't wish to belabor the full Committee at this time to apecificallf endou ny recommendations.
But I do think that we were appointed from a variety of standing ccmmittoes beanuse we b
P00R~0RH1 n,
6
42 l-have certain expertise or vo will be responsible, if legisla-tion is required, to consider the appropriate standing co2=11t-teca.
I would lik+ at thia tins if we could adcpt a reso-lution, er maybe I should wait imtil the -ules have been adop-ted, to authorize Mr. tiright and Mr. O'Brien to consider and. vt report back to the full Committee a suggested plan for the creation of succomcitteca.
.lE2.H JI.'IATIVL O ' 2RII.2 :
lt:11, Ivan, I '.fould like to nec -- not adap+ a resolution.
I'va ';uen talking to Jim on this and I think Jia deseres more time to rmily to go into this.
I think in the end he probably has to do exactly what
.2 L
you are anying, but I would like to give the Chairman more time and thca when we come back a.;ain we coin discuss this.
REPRESENTATIVE ITKIII:
I'm not suggesting,15.
O' Brion, that ue vcula do ;his today.
7nat I an suggesting is to nu';horine Mr. 'Ir1 ht nad :n'. D'lrien to look into this ques-3 tion and then :. Opcri :acP ;c, tha full C=aime at some subso-quant date what their feelinga are on thic ? articular mechanism.
CilAIRM/JI WIGliT:
Representative Geeney.
REPRESENTATIVE CEES?l:
I scratched something doun here very hurriedly.
If you want to refine it, frankly, I think it is a good idea.
I don't have any problem uith it.
O._
P00R OR G NAl.
43 7
's What I scratched out is, the Chairman chall have tuo authority to appoint any subcommittoo designating a chairman and thrco l
mcobora as he shall deem appropriato to expedito the function of the Committoo an a wholo.
REPRESENTATIVE BEN!fETT:
You say the Chairman shall
.j s.
.,..r.,
7 at any timo -
REPRESENTATIVE GEESEY:
Shall have the authority to appoint any subcommitte'.i and designato its chairman, compoacd of throo monbors, ho chall deem appropriato to expedito the function of the Committeo as a whole.
REPRESSITATIVE BENNETT:
I would agroo with what
/
you'ra saying.
I,$ust think that tho:30 throo words, at any Q;
timo, ought to bo incertad in thoro.
My thinking is that ho may 300 the need for a nubcommittoo now and then two wooks later another aubcommittee.
REPRESENTATIVE CEESEY:
Vell that is why I said as ho chall deem appropriato to expedite.
CHAIRMAN '.iRIGHT:
Could I request that vo hold this in abeyance until P.urnio and I can ait down and talk about it?
I'm having a little problem with the legiotica.
If 'to break off in subcommitteen, then the entiro Committeo does not havo the bonofit of what is going on in the cubcomuittaca.
I am not saying that the suggestion does not havo some morit, but P00R BREin m____
44
(_)
I would like to think about it, along with Bernie.
I am re-questing that we hold this in abeyance for a week or two.
REFRESEIITATIVE ITKIN:
That is fine with me. Mr.
Chair. nan.
CHAIRMAN WRIGHT:
'de can always amend the rules.
REPRESE!!TATIVE DI!TIMII:
Imovoweadopttherub.es as amended.
REPRESENTATIVE O'3RIE!I:
I second it.
CHAIR 2.UI WRIGHT:
Anybody opposing?
Okay, the rules have been adopted as amended.
I would suggest that Gene Goesoy and Fred Taylor get together as socn as possible and retype the amended rules p'y) and mako auro each Mamber of the Co231ttee has a copy.
Again, I repeat, P.:30 this afternoon in this room and 10:00 o8 clock sharp tcmorrow norning, if you chow up at live after ten, you are not going to get a rido.
Representa-tivo Cowell.
REPRO.322;TATIVE COUZLL:
I would just like to note for the record my request for an excused absence at tomorrow's meeting, May 4th, because I have a previously scheduled legis-lative meeting in my district that I have not been able to postpone or cancel.
CHAIRM/M \\diIGHT:
Reprcsontative DeWeese.
,7
'\\
P00RBREM
45 n
v REPRESCITATIVE DcWEESE:
I would like to offer the same comments that Representative Cowell offered.
CHAIIDIAN WRIGHT:
Anybody else?
Representative Schmitt.
REPRESSITATIVE SCHMITT:
I came in a little lato for which I apologize.
Is thers anyone here with sufficient expertice that they can advise that this trip tomorrow morning that we are taking en the bus out to Three Mile Island is res-sonably safe or is there some degree of hazard commensurate with the benefits of the trip?
REPRESENTATIVE BENNETT:
He has already done that, C.L., before you came in.
g
(
3 REPRESEllTATIVE SCHMIT*_':
We have that aesurance?
REPRESRITATIVE C' DRIB!:
Ycu might glow at night.
'io haven't checked cut the bua yet.
REPRESOiTATIVE CCLE:
I also would like to be ex-
- used.
CHAIRRE URIGHT:. Representativo Colo tants to be excused.
The aceting is addcurned until 2:30.
(',,"norcupon the meeting was adjourned at 11:30 a.m.)
?001 DRM1 1
i-46 O
I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence i
taken by me in the within matter are fully and accurately l
indicated in my notes and that this is a true and correct transcript of same.
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