ML19325E922
| ML19325E922 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 10/25/1989 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8911130034 | |
| Download: ML19325E922 (59) | |
Text
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i UNITED STATES OF AMERICA i
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMIS SION l
i 1
1
Title:
BRzErzuo.on enERazies TEenNzcxt 2ssuEs l
l 1
l LOCaliOD:
ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND
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Date:
OCT6BER"25, 1989' f
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t PageS 46 PAGES i
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PDR 10CFR l
9.7 PDC
l, 1
'y DISCLAIMER ll 1
)
This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of
)
L j
the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on October 25, 1989 in the Commission's office at 0,no J
White Flint North, Rockville, Maryland.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected or edited, and it may I
contain inaccuracies.
f The transcript is intended solely, for general
(
l-i informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal recond of decision of l
the matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this i
l transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination f
or beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with i.
the Commission in any proceeding as the result of, or addressed to, any statement or argument contained herein, l
except as the Commission may authorize.
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA L
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMIS8 ION L
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BRIEFING ON EMERGING TECHNICAi. ISSUES 4
l L
l PUBI.!C MEETING
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k I
Nuclear Regulatory Commission l
One White Flint North Rockville, Maryland i
. Wednesday, -october 25, 1980 L
f The Commission met in open session, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m.,
Kenneth M.
Carr, Chairman, i
presiding.
j r
COMMISSIONERS Pl.ESENT:
i KENNETH M. CARR, Chairman of the Commission f
t-THOMAS M.
ROBERTS, Commissioner JAMES R.
CURTISS. Commissioner l
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STAFT SEATED AT THE COMMISSION TABLE:
SAMt!EL J. CHILK, Secretary l
i WILLIAM.C. PARLER, General Counsel
- .f' i
I JAMES TAYLOR, Acting Executive Director for Operntions f
{-
THOMA5 MURLEY, NRR FRANK MIRAGLIA, NRR p-FRANK CONGEL, NRR i
BRIAN. GRIMES, NRR l-L
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1 p-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S l
2 10:00 n.m.
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' CHAIRMAN CARR:
Good morning, ladies and
[
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4'
. gentlemen.
1:',
5 Commissioner Rogers-is on official travel l
l 6
and-will not be with us today.
i-7 The purpose of this morning's meeting is for
?
8 the NRC staff to brief the Commission on the s t a t us, o f
?
9 certain emerging technieni lasues for operating i
10 reactors.
I understand that the staff wil1~ be l
11 discursing the six genernlly unreinted issues of b
12 stress corrosion of Inconel 600 alloys; temporary non-j' 13 code repair of piping; in-service t e s t' i n g ; corronion i
i 14 of steel containments; electric distribution system 15 weaknessos; and interfacing systems 1.0C A.
16 I ask that during your briefing ycu make it 17 clear on which subjects you will be seeking Commission 18 guidance, where rules and regulations may need to be 19
- modified, and what impset your planned actlons will i
20 have on NRC staff resources and when the necessary 1
o 21 actions will be completed.-
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22 Copies of the presentation allden are 23 available at the entrance to the moeting room.
I 24 Do any of my fellow Commissioners have any I
25 opening remarks?
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NEAl, R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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!t-1 If not. Mr. Taylor, you can pruceed.
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2 MR. T AYl,0R:
Good morning, sir.
With me nt 3
the table this morning, to my right. Tom Murley, all i
4 here at the table from NRR.
Brian Grimen to his 5
right. To my left. Frank Miraglia and Frank Congel.
6 This is basically a briefing by NRR, but I 7
l would like to mention that other offices in the Agency 8
certainly do contribute to identifying emerging 9
techn' scal issues, particularly AEOD and Research.
And maybe not in this immedinte package, 10 our example 11 but certainly through the work of the offices and 12 particularly those
- offices, issues are identified which are important technical
- issues, without 13 14 mentioning examples.
But' I did want to mention that l
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15 to the Commission.
16 I would like to mention to the Commission and I'll let Doctor Murley l
17 too, and perhaps this 18 and the staff try to respond to your questions -- but 19 these were selected really an issues that are in the 20 process of being understood, developed, ruviewed in n 21 number of caves.
I think generally, and I'll let Tom 22 and the othern addrunn it, are not yet at what I en11 23 the stage of resolution.
But the staff did want to i
24-tell you of these issues beenuse t hery are.i mpo r t an t 25 and they are issues that the sin f f's working on and t
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GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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- tend, one. way or the other, to bring resolution.
2 Resolution any be not a need for a rule or a need for i
3 re6ulatory action.
And then, again, it may result in 4
that.
But I'll let the staff pick up on that.
5 Tom?
Tom Murley.
G DOCTON M1)R1,E Y :
Thank
- you, Mr.
- Chairman, 7
commissioners.
It's usually when we're here briefing 8
the Commission it's after un issue has been well 9
formed and debated and options are presented and so 10 forth.
'We're here today to tell you of some things I
11 that are in the early stages of discussion and we may, 12 in fact, decide that we need to do nothing on these as 13 we get into them.
14 There is a major effort, enjor sintf effort 15 that we do that also doesn't get normal Commission 16 briefing and visibility and that is our effort in NRH 17 on operations and events assessment.
But it is quite
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18 large.
For example, we look at 5,000 events per year, 19 are screened by the staff.
That's 100 a week, for 20 example.
Of those, we follow-up on about 1,000 of 21 them and track them.
Of those, they ultimately lead t
22 to = generally 100 generic communientions per year.
h 23 These are rough figures.
So that gives you the 24 magnitude of the type of effort that goes into thut.
l 25 As the process of screening those events and NEAL H.
GHOSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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following them, we do notice patterns from time to 2
time and we do notice where operating experience tells i
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3 un that maybe there's a safety issue that we haven't F
4 looked at before.
i 5
What we're going to talk to you today then L
t' 6
is about some issues ti.at we chose that we're working 7
on that we-think are worthwhile; to tell you about 8
early.
A couple of them are forms of aging 1
9 degradation that are Just simply revealed by wenr and 10.
tear of the plants.
One of them, or a couple of them 11 I.should say, are procodural upgrades that experience 12 has told us are ~ needed.
One of them is where a 13 pattern of equipment failures and human failures has
'~~
14 raised a question as to whether a particular accident if sequence might be more likely and that pose n inrger 10 risk than we otherwise would have thought.
17 So, without anymore int roduction, let me 18 turn to Frank Miraglia who will lead into nome of 19 these topics also.
20 MR. MIR AG1.I A:
Thank you, Tom.
21 Good morning, Commissioners.
22 As Tom and Jim have said, the olie ra t i n g i
23 experience and inspection resulta nre a
nource of 24 identifying potential generic concerns to the staff.
25 As has been indiented, some of these issues are better r --
f NEAL H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C.
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l understood.
We've looked at them longer.
Sometimes 2
o!.e r a t i n g experience and inspection results rnveal j
3 things.
They ask us to go back and relook at things 4
that we had looked at in the past.
4 t
5 Not all of the management reviews have been
[
G done on these issues and some are truly in an 7
embryonic stage of development.
We've chosen t h e s t, sometimes some of this materin) 8 issues based upon P
has been talked about in the press, some of those l
10 issues, in trade magazines, in the trnde press nnd we 11 thought it would be of interest to the commission to 12 indicate where we're going and where our thinking is, 13 and other issues you've heard about in other related 14 activities.
15 With
- that, I'm going to discuss t h.,
four 16 engineering issues on the agenda.
today.
Mr.
J 17 Richardson, our Director of Division of Engineering.
[
18 was unable to be with us because of a death in the 19 family.
f 20 The first issuu that we're going to tnik 21 about is the stress corrosion cracking of Inconel 22 alloys.
This has revenled itself mont recently in 23 operating experience at Calvert Cliffs with respect to 24 some leaks at the pressurizer honter assemblies on 25 Calvert Cliffs Unit 2.
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NEAI. R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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Inconel 600 has long been known to be l
i 2
susceptible to primary water stress corrosion cracking 3
cr pure water stress corrosion cracking.
We've noted l
i 4
this kind of corrosion in inconel alloys in other 5
reactors.
BWR reactors had significant cracking in i
f 6
recire. systems several years ago.
7 As we currently understand the Calvert 8
Cliffs situatiori, it appears to us at this time that 9
the stress corrosion cracking is caused by the 10 manufact,uring processes that we use to muaufacture the l
11 pressurizer heater tubes.
These tubes were cold' i
12 worked.
They were reamed out in order to be able to 13 a c <:ommo d a t e the heater tubes and as a result the l
'~
14 stress corrosion cracking that we have been seeing is IS axial.
This is consistent with the process.
They're i
16 axial cracks and since they're axial cracks we do not 17 consider them to be a large safety concern.
- However, t
18 it does indicate a need for perhaps augmented in-19 service testing and inspection.
20 Becauno of our previous experience wl*h l
21 Inconel 600 and what we've seen
- here, we've been 22 working with the CE owner's group to develop whether 23 there's similar precsurizer henter tubes fabricated in i
j 24 a
similar manner in other plants.
Our current 25 thinking along these lines is as the information I
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NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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Wnshington, D.C.
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I develops, we may need to develop generic communication j
2 in the. form of a bulletin.
We've alrendy issued an f
a generic communication on an 3-information f
but a
4 information notico informing the industry 5
bulletin that might indicate a need for augmented in-e I'
6 service inspection at susceptible locat. inns that have c
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7 these fabrication histories.
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CHAIRMAN CARR:
We know who made them, the 9
tubes?
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10 MR. MI R AGl.1 A :
- These, the onen at Calvert j
h 11
- Cliffs, I
- believe, were made and fabricated by 12 Combustion Engineering.
The fabrication records and i
13 the history on lots of the components perhaps is not 14 always clear, the traceshility all the way back to the l
what kind of r
15 source as to where the material 16 working and fabriention history it han.
So, it does l
I 17 make it a difficult kind of thing.
18 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Is there any evidence 19 of circumferentini cracking of the tubes that you've i
t 20 seen?
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21 MR.
MI R A01.1 A :
Not on the Cn' vert Cliffs
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22 situation.
- Now, there in foreign experience that I
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23 indicaten that they are niso seeing st ress corronion L
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24 cracking in steam generator tubes.
That 13 i
25 circumferential and that's because of how the tub.ns 5
I NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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were fabricated again.
It's a
rolling' kind of s.
7 the 2
fabrication and therefore the picture 3
fabrication technique coupled with the pure water sets 4
the environment that you get the corrosion after the 5
fact.
In that case it results-in circumferential e
6 cracking.
.i n the esses that we've seen here at 7
Calvert Cll' fs, it's axial cracking and that's why 8
it's of n lessor concern.
9 COMMISSIONER CllRTISS :
With what you've 20 seen, would you expect the axial crackn t o propngnt e 11 into circumferential cracks or is that a
logical l
I 12 result?
19 MR. MIRAGLIA:
I think the answer to that i
14 question would be no, Commissioner, not at this time.
[
~
i 15 But it is something that would lenk and enuse 16 operational kinds of concerns.
Thereforo, we would 17 probably need to assure and augment the t e s t i tig.
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18 CHAIRMAN CARR:
A stress riser in one part i
19 of the
- probleu, but nasuming there's no strusses i
20 around, does this lend itself to chemical treatment to i
21 get rid of the pure water strens corrosion creeking or i
22 who's doing research on that kind of thing?
l 23 MR. MIR AGI.I A :
I could let me staff answer 24 that one.
I think you need soveral environments.
You j
j 25 need the pure water and the stress.
I think if you r- -
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NEAT. R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue.
N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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reduce the
- stress, that would take care of a
2 significant contributor.
3 C.Y.,
would you like to comment further on f.
4 that?
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CHAIRMAN CARR Would you tell the recorder 6
who you are in-the microphone?
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7 MR. CHEN:
My name is C.Y.
Chen.
I'm the L.
8 Chief of Material.ind Chemical Engineering Branch, p
l' 9
Regarding the research on the Incono.1 600, I 10 guess we have some program in the Research Office 11 doing this kind of work.
But as you know, the 10ACC L
12 has come from those three ingredients, high residual
[
13 tensile strengths and the susceptible anterini now 14 that we have Inconel 600, and then the environment.
15 The combination of those three factors will affect I
16 whether the IGACC will go or not.
17 Now earlier.
Commissioner Curtins asked 18 about circumferential or axial crack.
You know that i
i 19 internal stress, an axin! crack will normully happen
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f 20 first because the stress is twice as much in axial wikl develop axial t
st ress first.
But
,j 21 stress.
So you 22 depending on the environment and the loading l
t 23 conditions, it could change i n t. o circumferent101.
In j
24 the steam generator
- case, we did see the 25 circumferential crack inst ead of nxini.
NEAl R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 234-4433 i
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l Rut the axial ersch in this esse is limited 2
to the zone. of t he work in the cold work.
'tha t 's wh y 3
it's not too l o..L and our judgment is it's not a
's 4
safety problem.
Mostly.
't's an operat ional problem.
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5 MR. TAYl.OR:
The bottom line, I guess, is j.-
6 that the cracking pattern matches the cold work l,
7 pattern.
That's what you're seeing in both steam i
l 8
generator tubes.
It's the cold work method where the
[-
L 9
stress risers and --
10 COMMISSIONER CtIRTISS:
The problem hus 11 cropped up over in the French plants.
Doen that t
12 square with the conclusion that they're reaching over 13 there as well?
14 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
- Yes, they have cold wold
- r 15 tubes.
It's the low tubes and so they're experiencing 10 this.
We are going to be visiting France next month 17 and we hope to discuss some of that with them nnxt 18 month.
19 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS:
What are you iniking 20 about, the actual manufacture of the tubes or rolling l
21 the tube into the tube sheet?
22 MR. MIR AGl.I A:
In the case of the Calvert j
23 Cliffs altuntlon, these tubes needed to be reamed out l
24 so they can accommodate the pressurizer heaters.
So i
25 there's actually cold working o f.a short end ta team i
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NEAL H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue.
N.W.
Washington, D.C.
20006 (202) 234-4433 l-t i
9 g.
13 I
that tube out to have the sufficient diameter to
[
2 eccept the heat.
So, each uniquo application perhnpa 3
would add the ingredient of stress.
As C.Y.
has 4
indicated, you neod thren ingredienta 5
DOCTOR MURLAY:
The foreign example was, !
6 believe, rolling the tubes in the tube sheet.
I 7
COMMISSIONER ROBERTS All right.
8 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
One ather quick 9
question on that.
Do we have Inconul G00 in any other 10 primary systems that we ought to be taking a look at i
11 or is there any reason to do that at this point?
12 MR. MIRAGLIA:
Yes.
As I indicated, we have l
13 seen this kind of thing in the BWRs.
We had some 14 recirculation safe ends piping and we've'taken action I
15 on those in the past.
What thin new experience doen
[
t
'l 16 is ossentially confirm the fnet thnt inconel 600 is n t
f 17 susceptible material and given stress-and given the 18 right environment will be subject to this kind of
[
10 corrosion.
So, we need to be sensitive that the 20 material is used in an appliention that there is 21 sufficient testing to identify. leakage.
22 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
in t h n 1.
mnIcriul
~
23 widely used on the primary side?
24 MR. MIRAGLIA:
Yes, I would say yes.
25 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Okny.
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NEA1. R.
G R0!.S 1323 Rhode Island Avenue.
N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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CHAIRMAN CARR I guens my concern was that I
2 tho chemists work on the problem and see if thby can I
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minimize the problem because you're going to have r
l-4 atross.
You can't got rid of that.
t.
5 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
They've gone to different 6
slloys and Inconel 700 -- there's a 690 I believe, in u
W 7
sddress the --
l 8
CHAIRMAN CARR:
That's metallurgists.
I'm t
9 worried about the guys who can put something in the 10 primary system that might tand to knock this effoct 11 down.
We've done something like that, I think, with 12 stress chloride.
[3 MR. MIRAGLIA:
Yes, and the environment here i
'~
the' chemistry environment is such that it's low 14 is t
15
' oxygen, which the primary in kept purporely low, nt 16 low oxygen, and that the'significant contributors are i
17 the susceptible material and the stress.
18 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Okay,. Let's proceed.
19 MR. MIRAGLIA:
The next aren has to do with 20 temporary non-code repairs of ASME piping.
The ASME i
21 code requires any repairs to c o d e.
piping io meet
,[
22 certain roquirements and be done promptly.
We have
[
23 endorsed the ASMR code and the code in used and l
24 committed to by various licensees for Class 1 and 2 as j
i 25 well as class 3 piping.
I i.
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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Because of the requirement of having to do r
i 2
code repairs, this could lead to shut downs to effect
[
3 code repairs.
There are certain piping systems within 4
the plant that are suhJect to code where a pinnt 5
shutdown may not really be necessary for a limited I
t i
l 6
period of time if certnin criterin nre met.
7 The staff is developing a position on the c
[
R acceptsbility of certain tempornry non-code repnirs-
]
9 and the purpose of this position will be to provide l
10 guidance on when these non-code repairs could he j
11 permitted without actually having to come in and i
12 receiving a
relief reques.t from the-permitting 13 authority, which is the NRC.
Any-time there's f
a 14 devistions from the ondo that they've committed to, j
p 15 the code provides for certain kinds of relief.
Those i
10 reliefs have to come in.
This is a procedurn) kind of i
17 issue.
We've seen -- we have granted these re l f.e f s on j
18 a case by enne specific basis.
[
19 Some utilitten are more sensitive to these i
20 things and actually come to use nnd neck relief.
21 We've also found some instances in our inspection
,[
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22 process where the ut ilit ies have perhnpa done si non-
'i 23 code repair and not gotten the appropriate types of i
f i
24 relief and then had to take enforcement actions und t
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25 inaue notices of violation.
7 i
NEAl. H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Ininnd Avenue, N.W.
Wnshington, D.C.
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An a result of this type of experience to
('
2 clean up the procedures-Class 3 piping, w e? feel we 3
can issue non-code repair reliefs if it meets certain 4
criteria and the criteria would be that they have to f
5 assess what the floor characteristics
- are, do a
i E
G sutficient inspection of the piping that's involved to l
7 assure that the defects aren't located elsewhere in 8
the piping.
They could effect a non-code repair to l'
9 continue operation.
I t
10 Now, this is for Class 3 piping only.
We've l
11 decided that this is the only place we would give this 12 generic relief according to the criterin.
If they 13 meet that crite'ia, they could effect a
non-code j
F r
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14 repair until the next shutdown or duration sufficient 15 to repair the-piping and return it to code g
10 requirements.
This year it will be issued in the form f
17 of a
generic letter.
It would go t hr > ugh the r
18 processes of the CRGR review and be issued an ti 19 generic communication.
I don't believe this would I
20 entail any action by the Commission.
l i
,f 21 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Will they not i fy us when 22 they do it, even though they don't have to get
[
l 23 permission?
[
24 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
They would have to keep 25 records of what they've done on-site similar to a k
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NEAL H.
GHOSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 f-r
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50.59. process.
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2 CHAIRMAN CARR:
They wouldn't notify us, but
'3 we could inspect them.
i I
4 MR. MIRAGLIA:
Yes.
I 5
CHAIRMAN CARR:
Would we require them to r
6 make periodic inspections until they do the permanent 7
repair?
s y
8 MR. MIRAGLIA:
The criterin is such thut in p
l 9
order for them to effect this non-code repair they i
10 would have to do sufficient inspection and an annlysis l-11 of the flaws to say that they could operate over the 12 intended period of time.
13 CHAIRMAN dARR:
That 's pre-reperir?
[
14 MR. MIRAGLIA:
That's right, and that would it's an interim-
. 15 get them -- it's a very short-term 16' duration.
At that next shutdown, they would have to
[
)
4 17 repair it.
18 CHAIRMAN CARR:
If it's a
long enough f
19 shutdown, the way I read it.
20 MR. MIRAGLIA:
That's correct.
f 21 CHAIRMAN CARR:
That means they could i.
. 23 operato, certainly, b e t weg en refuelings perhaps.
23 MR. MIRAGLIA:
As long as they're refueling, 24 yes.
. 25 CHAIRMAN CARR:
And would we not require nny L
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 L
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. increased inspecticn of that repaired area between 2
those times?
f 3
MR.
MIRAGLIA:
I think we would have t
6 4
augmented inspection of that, leak detection in thut 5
period of time.
I 6
h'o further questions?
l l
7 General design criteria, criterion 1, states l
h 8
that structure systems and components important to 9'
safety shall be tested communsurat e with t' heir
[
10 importance to safety.
We've incorporated in our
'll regulations under part 50.55(a)
ASME boiler and j
i 12 pressure code requirements.
We have concerns that the 13 implementation o f t hes e regulationa for the operatin'g i
m-14 power plants are perhaps not sufficient enough to go 15 far enough to provide the necessary assurance that
.[
16 pumps and valves in the power plants and safety-i 17 related and important to snfety systems are being
~!
18 tested sufficiently to identify that their snfety i
19 functions are being carried out.
t 20 The staff has a long-term effort underway.
I 21 We have issued a number of generic letters.
We huvo i
(
22 issued an in-service testing and generic letter where j
b 23 we've clari fied whnt our views nnd positions are with L
24 respect to reliefs to in-service testing.
That i
{
25 generic letter was issued, I believe, lato summer or f
I 6
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GROSS i
1323 Rhode islano Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 l
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1 early fall, maybe it was even earlier.
i 9
2 And I guess 'this fall we lauued the motor l
t '
3 operated valve.
- Again, I'm concerned about the 4
operability and' testing of safety-reinted valves.
5 There were previous generic letters stemming L
l
'G back to '86 that came out of the Dnvis-Besse event.
i b
f 7
There are other generic issues that were 8
identified and being worked on, and we have a program 9
that includes all of these facets and the culmination i
I 10 of which would be in a revised in-service tunting l
L 11 rule.
[
12 We are working with Research -- and this is we are initiating a rulemaking
'l 13 en early example l
t L
14 request.
This is something that's being worked at tho 15 staff level right now and hasn't gone up through the 10 management chain.
We're working with Henenrch to i
l 17 develop an in-service testing rulemaking, and there j
y 18 would be several chunges to the regulations that we I
6 19 are contemplating.
What the final package looks like l
20 remains to be seen.
This is one that's still under j
i 21 development.
.i I
f 22 Wo would clearly want the new rule to i
23 indicate the scopo of an IST program.
As currently
[
24 interpreted and defined, it clearly gets and captures l
25 ASME code class components.
However, there are pumps l
s i
NEAL H.
CHOSS 1323 Rhode Inland Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 t
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.and valves out there that may not be of code class F
2 that are important to safety and perform snfoty-3
.related functions that require in-service testing, so
!?
4 we.want to make sure the scope of the rule is broad l
5 enough.
i 6
Another change is we would reference thn b
7 ASME Part 6 and 10 of the Operation and Maintenance l
8 Standards that the ASME has developed.
We think that i-9 this is an improvement and a
step in the right 10 direction, and so we would incorporate those new 11 standards within the regulation.
That would require a 12 rule change.
i'-
13 CHAIRMAN C A Rih Let me nok, if you've had
'~~
14 work shops on this, what kind of feedback are you 15 getting?
16 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
We've had n
n urabe r of 17 workshops on the
Ted Marsh has been involved in t h o r, e, and 19 maybe I would ask Ted to address what our experience 20 has been with those.
i 21 MR. MARSH:
My name is Ted Marsh, the Chief 22 of the,Mechanient Engineering Branch.
23 This summer we had a symposium in downtown 24 Washington where we discussed a number of IST-related 25 issues, pumps and valve testing standards.
We had n i
.L.
NI'AL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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1
. good feedback from that meeting.
There was an iE 2
excellent exchange of information.
The industry is 3
generally very receptive to occasions where you 4
exchange information of this sort and it hnen't 5_
happened before in the IST area.
So, it wns very well G
received.
We've gotten a number of insuon we think 7
need'to be worked on, we've taken them to the code and 8
they have progressed.
So, they work and we work on 9
those issues.
10 CHAIRMAN CARH:
Did the workshop turn up t
11 utilities who were doing testing beyond that required l
12 by the NRC or the ASME?
13 MR. MARSH:
Yes, there are utilitLos that do 14 that.
There are' several plants that take the IST 15 requirenents to heart and go beyond, apply the IST i
16 criteria ta systeen that aren't class 1,
2 and 3 and 17 do beyond what is necennary.
Those are model 18 utilities and we've brought those up to the code as 1
19 examples of plants that can do better and have and we i
20 should model the standards after those.
21 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Thank you.
Commendable, 22 COMMISSIONER CllR TI S S :
Do wi.
currently 23 require MOV AT testing on secondary volves or la that
{
i 24 a matter of discretion for the utilities?
25 MR. MIR AGI.I A:
I think that the question as t
NEAI, R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode faland Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 P
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constructed is difficult to answer.
We have modified y
2-the MOV letter to indiente valves that would be in the E' ' '
3 secondary system, yes, o
l 4
MR. MARSH:
We don't require MOV ATs, por f
5 se.
We require some testing of some sort.
The latest L
6 generic letter, 89-10, any, "These are the valves that b
7 should be tested, the system that should be t;ated.
e L
8 Beyond that, we think it's prudent.
We think you 9
should do that and we will look to-see how you, in
?
E 10
- fact, do your testing when we come and do an 11 inspection, but we don't require it at this point in
$l 12 time."
J 13 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
At this point we've
' ' ~ -
14 identi fied all the valves on both the primary and the 15 secondary side that we think are important --
16 MR. MIR AGI.I A :
That need to he tested.
18 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
And there are some 19 utilities, I gather, that are going beyond that?
20 MR. MARSH:
Yes, sir, there are plants that 21 are doing that.
22 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Okay.
23 MR. MIRAGI,I A :
In addition, since the rule 24 change is a longer term project and it's really in the t
25 development s't a g e, we've also felt t h a t-we need to I
c.,..
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GROSS 1
J 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C.
20005 (202) 234-4433
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work with AEOD and Research to say what's coming out 2
of the research programs and the study of the trends 3
in operational data to any, what are the matorial i
4 pumps and valves that ought to be covered in this kind 5
of rulemaking?
6 As 1
indicated, this is just being 7
initiated.
We haven't even put the memorandum 8
together to say what all the elements are and we're in 9
the process of doing that.
So, I would say that this 10 is something the-Commission would see on its agendn, 11 but not in the immediate future.
12 t
,sion of steel containments.
In recent 13-years, most recently I guess it was early this summer,
~
14 we saw corronion on steel containments in the pWR ico 15 condense plant at McGuire.
What had happened there, 16 there was some puddling of water and there was i
17 actually corrosion of the steel shell and it had to be 18 examined to determine whether it met ende 19 requirements.
1 1
20 Similarly, the BWR drywells were fi rs t 21 detected corrosion was at Oyster Creek where, because l
22 of some pooling of moisture in a sand runhion nren 23 based on a UT inspection of the drywell, they saw a l
l 24 reduced wnll thickness and determined that corrosion j
25 was occurring and had to take corrective actions.
l NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 1
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1 1
We've seen the steel of the torus at Nine 2
Mile also, during on in-service test inspection, 3
experience several areas of thickness that had 4
corroded nway.
As a result of these, we've conducted 5
a number of surveys and have identified certain 6
degradation mechanisms.
Some of them are beenuse of 7
water pooling.
Some are coatings that were not 8
applied initially or had been improperly applied.
So 9
we'res examining each of these as they occur.
10 For.the drywell corrosion und the torna 11 corrosion, we have issued information notices about 12 what we found, how they were dotected and what tho 13 root.cause was.
The ice condenser steel containment,
'~-
14 we're preparing such an information notico.
15 With respect to the boiling water reactora, 10 we are working with the owner's group to look at and 17 formulate perhaps an augmented in-service inspection 18 program.
Given this experience that we've neen at a 19 number of reactors, given the circumstances, what type 20 of augmented in-service inspection program might be l
21 appropriate to deal with this kind of issue and we're
,1 22 working with the owner's group in this regnrd.
I j
i 23 guess we would similarly work with the other owners to j
i 24 addrens the issues on the ice condense pinnts.
25 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
In a case like Nine I
L-NEAI, R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 L.
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1-Mile ehere you get torua wall thinning that comes down 2
pretty low, I take it by what you said that you're l-3' looking at steps that. can-be taken to arrest the
{
4 thinning.
For the thinning that rve' re. talking about l~
5 here in these various systems, is there anything that l
G can be done to repair or make up for the --
u t
7 MR. MIRAGLIA:
.Yes.
8 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Obviously you can't 9
replace the torus, can you?
for 10 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
No, but you can 11 example, on the McGuire wall, I think they did do a b
12 weld repair and build the material back up-and did-it effected a code repair.
13 code 14 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Okay.
, '% t ' s
'15-something you can do on a torus wall?
16 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
- Yes, in cortnin 17 circumstances, or you can apply the coating.
18 COMMISSIONER C11RTISS:
Okay.
l' 19 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
In addition, we're talking
.l l
20 about,- you understand, it's margin above.
Minimum L
21 wall is what you meed.
l' 22 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Right.
23 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
So we're tulking about l
s 24 degradation of a margin above.
L 25 DOCTOR MURLEY:
I think it's important to 1
l l
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GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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' keep this in the safety perspective that as long na it 2
meets code, it still has n.u r gi n of t wo to throu times 3
above design basis.
What we're talking about is 4
margin above the code even.
5 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Right.
6 DOCTOR MURLEY:
So il's not like these 7
things are fragile little things that are going to 8
fall apart.
9 MR. MIRACLIA:
And that's the ense in these.
10 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Is it the intent, then, to 11 require the in-service inspection by generic letter or
.]
12 would you put that in the tech specs for those plants 13 that are specifically vulnerable we know.about?
14, MR. MIRAGLIA:
I think what we have to do, 15 Mr. Chairman, we determine the extent and that would I
16 indicate the generic communication.
Most likely, it 17 would be in the form of a generic letter.
If it's 18 limited to a certain set, we could even address the 19 letter just to the select set.
And
- again, Ihut h
20 depends upon the experience that we find.
We've done 21 that and taken that approach in severn) others.
22 That completes the discussion of the 23 ongineering issues, and with that I'll turn it over to 24 Brian Grimes to talk about the electrical distribution 25 system.
I L.
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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MR. GRIMES:
Brian Grimes, Director of the 2
Division of Renctor Inspection and Safeguards.
3 This item's in the category of trying to 4
learn from events in our inspection experience.
5~
Electrical distribution system weaknesses have been of G
increasing concern to the staff, and discussions at a 7
recent senior management meeting suggested that as an aren of 8
perhaps this item should be pursued 9
emphasis at all plants.
10 The issue here is the ability of the f
11 electrical distribution system to perform its l2 functions under all the circumstances under which it 13
'might be required to perform.
This includes supplying 14 power to such things as pumps and valves, controlling 15 this equipment, and protecting it from faults in the 16 systems or failures, local fnilures.
17 The background, as indicated on the visual 18 nid, is that we've identified in a number of instances 19 uncontrolled load growth for both diesel generators 20 and battery systems.
That is, as people have found t
21 the need to make modificalions, they've added loads to 22 these emergency sources that might affect their 23 operation if all the loads were r ottu i r ed to be 24 supplied at. once.
25 Another item of experience in incorrect set NEAI, H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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. points for protective relays that could affect the 3
t' 2
availability-of both safety trains in some 3
rircumstances.
If you-reached another voltage or some L'
4 other condition that tripped off'both safety
!. r n i n s,
5 you would lose for at least some period of time the p
6' ability to run key safety equipment.
7 Another piece of operational experience 8
which gives us concern is recent events where we've 9
had problems transferring loads in the switch yard t
t
'10 between one souren of power and another, which' have 11 caused on occasion loss of power to safety loads.
I-4
~
12 want to differentiate this from statinn black-out 13 concerns,.
which are essentiallp related to the-r i.. :..,
.14 reliability of the diesel generntors given a challenge 15 o'
loss of the off-sito grid.
Here, we're talking 16 about the actun]
nbility of the electrical i
17 distribution system itself to do the things that it's 18 designed to do on paper.
So, we're talking about an
[
lD implementation prob 1cm.
20 Our experience base senms to be telling un 21 that we should worry more about hidden original design 22 errors and errorn mudo in a modi fi en t ion procens which j
23 could lend to common mode failures in ihis area, and l
24 we'll determine whether our concern is well-rounded l
25 through some additional inspo-tions that we p1nn to i.
I r_
i NEAl H.
GROSS i
1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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conduct.
2 There' appear to.be n number of contributing 3'
causes to these
- problems, including a
lack of 4
understanding of original design basen when chnnges 5
are made; lack of available design documentation and-G configuration control; relatively weak engineering and-7 technical support in some cases; and in some cases, an f:
8 over-reliance on contractors by utilities.
Thero's 9.
also been observed in the design process the interface 10 problems between the engineering nnd opernt lona 11 groups.
12 (Slide)
May I have the next slide,plense?-
13, We're developing a t eam -ins ~ ect ion, which.
p i
'14 will assess the technical
. adequacy nnd the 15 functionality of the system as-it is installed in the 16 plant.
And this will tell us some things nbout the 17 configuration control systems of the utilities and b
18 also about the adequacy of the utility technical und 19 engineering support as it has worked on this system 20 over the years.
21 We plan some pilot inspections over the nt x t
,l l
f 22 six months, and we'll then provide some training to 23 region inspectors in addition to using them on the 1
24 pilot inspections.
The regions will be tending these t
25 inspections in the future, probnbly over about a two NEAL H.
CHOSS 1323 Hhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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k 1-year period.
L 2
The tenma will use region personnel, and 3
also we'll provide contractor expertise.
One of the
'4 koy things we've found in this type of inspection, L
5 which is similar to an SSPI approach, in that detailed f
L G
technical expertist, is required to get to the bottom 7
of these engineering problems and dig out the hidden
>8 problems that aren't seen until you really chnllengo 9
the systems.
10 The staff resources which you naked about,.
regional staff will 11 Mr. Chairman, will be for the 12 be within the program that's laid out by NRR, and that E
13 will be considered the next area of emphasis after the b
14 maintenance team inspections.
These team inspections 15 will take over and use a similar level of resources.
~
16 Contractor resources we haven't entirely
.c it will 17
-scoped at this point, because the pilot
~ 18 take the pilot inspections to exactly size the ' teams 19 and the length of time that we'll
- require, but we 20 expect to. be able to une our techn.ical assistance.
21 resources for these to supplement these 22 inspections.
'23 DOCTOR MURLEY:
L e t.
me add a point to what r
24 Brian
.just
- said, just to reenp.
You
- know, our 25 inspection program consists roughly of one-third of n
-t
. i..
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GHOSS 1323 Rhode Isinnd Avenue, N.W.
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I core inspection program that all plants get, emergency-i
!g 2
preparedness, henith physics, nnd that sort of thing, j
I.f 3'
one-third of the resources is allocated for 4
discretionary inspections for the regional i
5 administrator to just. react to events and annd his own 8
j 6
teams out.
m 7
Another third, the final. third, in uimod at 8
this special area of emphasis.
We've done emergency 9
operating procedures.
We've done mnintennneu.
And in 10 fact, this came up at our senior management men t'i n g' 11 the Inst time.
One of the regional administrntors 12 recommended that the electrical systems be the next 13 aron of special emphasis.
We thought that was n good-14' idea.
We looked at two or three areas and we scoped
~
15
.this one out, and Brian just mentioned thnt this will 16 probably start next year sometime.
17 MR.
GRIMES:
We're going to do some pilot g
[
18 inspections this winter and spring and some next year g
19 some time.
20 DOCTOR MilRLE Y :
So I think this in a good 21 example of how the system's working and regional
,i 22 people 23 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Doesn't this problem really i
24 lend itself to testing?
Can't you just go out und do 25 n selective trip test?
Tell them, "Okny, drop it and
+
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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see what picks up and what don't.
See if you can i
2 carry it."
3 MR. GRIMES:
The problem is loading all t he _
i 4
equipment i n' the manner that it would be loaded in i
5 terms of pumps running under the-appropriate
-6 conditions.
7 CHAIRMAN CARR:
That's where I'm tulking 8
about testing it.
9 DOCTOR MURLEY:
That's one way of doing it.
10 You'd have to run a fairly extensive test situation to 11 get the -- all the overloads showing up.
- 12 ChiAIRMANCARR:
If that's the end.of a cycle 13.
and they're ready to shut down and everything's 14
- running, it seems like you could get this date
[
l5 practically.
z 16 MR. GRIMES:
Well, you have to remember the 17 systems are also designed to take a single failure in 18 any part of the system, and there's a Inrge -- n 19 number of these things that could be postulated.
We j
20 found it's very tough to simulate by test all the 21 conditions that you would get in an accident.
22 CHAIRMAN CARR:
But you're going to hnvo to 23 do a design analysis of everything they've done in the 24 electrical system to really ur;complish what you wont 25 to do here.
, e I
l' NEAL R.
CROSS i
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.- 1 MR. GRIMES:
On a sampling basis, we'll have
.f 2
to hit a lot of different attributes.
E 3
CHAIRMAN CARR:
I think.what worries me'most 4-is the people who have made an nuthorized chango to n S
. set point in one part of the system withouf. looking at i
6 the reflection throughout the whole electrieni system, 7
~ and over a period of years,that happens or they add a 3
8 lond, as you say.
But if you don't have that probably 9
controlled at the time or the design control in order 10 to come.in at this point in time and try to n e e+'what 11 the situation is, you're really going to have to do.a i
12 heck of a lot of work.
j 13 MR. MIRAGLIA:
One thing we have done, Mr.
I 14 Chairman, that would address in part your concern is
' l. 5 that the' way these things manifest themselves are.
16 through operating trips 17 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Sure.
That's how you. find 18 out.
i 19 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
-- and that's how we found f
20 some of these ground breaker coordination problem and c.
21.
the like that Brian has dencribed.
What we've done 22 also in setting up this inspection module is to go "1
23 back and look a procursor events and elect rien1 events
'24 to say which ones were significant precursors to more 25 serious kinds of -- what systems should we concen t ra t e NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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on?
I think we have that as input to developing this f
2 thing.
3 You might want to indiente some of the arens 4
that we're going to be concentrating on as a result of 5-looking at the precursors and events, what systems are 6
important, how close did we come in certain 7
circumstances and to look for those kinds of 8
vulnerabilities, plus the operating experience.
This 9
is one program that we're worki,ng with the regions-nnd 10 AEOD and Research to try and pull --
11 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Oh, I appinud the program.
12 I think it's very important.
all these kinds of things 13 MR. MIRAGLIA:
14 to get the focus that it needs.
" ' ~ " "
15 CHAIRMAN CARR:
It's a very important thing 16 and needs to be done.
I'm just trying to figure out 17 the easiest way to do it.
18 MR. TAYLOR:
May I?
The solution wiJl come 19 through the utilities themselves looking at the plant i
i 20 as configured design.
There are a couple of cases s
21 where people the
- utility, I
won't mention the 22
- pinnts, but they've had enough experienen with 23 di f f i c.u l t l e s in this area that they've said, "Enough 24 is enough.
We're going to go back and do a rather 25 exhaustive review."
We're happy to see that.
I 1
n.
NRAL H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Taland Avenue, N.W.
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7.
1 CH AIRMAN CARR:
.It.looks to me like they're l
H
.2 going to' hnve to do this anywny on part of thu 3
blackout rule and their coping analysis, unless they r
4 just decide to add diesel generators.
L 5-DOCTOR MURLEY:
I think we're going to be looking deeper and we're going to be~ looking out in LG 7
the switch yard more than they might do as part of h
t 8
their coping analysis.
9 MR. MIRAGLIA:
As Brian indicated,'this goes.
10 a little beyond the station blackout assumes that the l
11 electrical systems that are'out there will. perform _as 12 designed when experience is showing that's not always 13 the' case.
114 CHAIRMAN CARR:
In the construction testing 15 phase, don't they do a selective tripping t e s ', when 16.
they get all these things lined up and set'up?
Ilow 17 long does that take?
18' MR. GRIMES:
In terms of' preparing for it, T 4
19 guess you have to set.. u p all procedures.
It's a 20 fairly instantaneous --
21 CHAIRMAN CARR:
- Well, I'm just thinking if 22 we filled out that anme tent and nuid, "11 e v, it's timo 23-to rerun that thing.
We don't know what we've done to 24 the electrical system."
Is that n o t.
a rensonable --
25 MR. CRI.MES:
I would say that wouldn't give L\\,
1 1
l NRAI. R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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1 us the level of confidence we're looking for.
I think 2
what we'll find by sampling is sumo pinnts we won't f
3 find many problems and we'll get some added degree of 4
confidence.
If we do find some significant problems, 5
then it's going to be up to the utilii.y then to pursue G
with substantial additional resources some really in-7 7
depth --
8 TAYLOR:
Review and testing.
9 MR. GRIMES:
-- reviewing and testing.
10 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Wel1, I don't get. the same 11 level of confidence from a paper review t ien t I do of 12 nctually going out and throwing a switch.
13 DOCTOR MURLEY:
Mr.
- Chairman, in order to 14 test these under the --
15 CllAIRMAN CARR:
I can imagine they'll all 16 want not to do it, I'm sure.
17 DOCTOR MURLEY:
-- circumstances that you'll 18 want these to operate, whern all the sa fet y systems 19 coming on, you've got certain things failed, I would 20 got very nervous of running tests that you don't have 21 to run.
22 CilAIRMAN CARR:
Well, most of those Ihingn 23 occur in a normally operating plant as a result of 24 some kind of a shutdown.
25 DOCTOR MURLEY:
But there may be some l
l L.._
NEAL R.
CROSS l
1323 Rhode Island Avenue.
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I weaknesses
'though that don't show up unt11 the L
2-emergency diesel is fully loaded, let's any, with all 3
the safety _ trains on that would normally be on it,
-4 plus some additional failures.
That -is under reni S
- accident conditions.
I guess the thing that would 6
make me. pause is I, don't know how cloan you wnnt to go 7
to stage that kind of a test.
(
,p1 8
CHAIRMAN CARR:
I don't either.
[.
_9 DOCTOR MURLEY:
- Because we've seen cases 10 where we induced a station binckout during a tent like 3 -
ll this and it's a little bit like pulling your begonias.
I 12 up by the roots to see how the plant's doin'g.-
f 13 CHAIRMAN CARR:
I am well aware of that.
14 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
How many 3.lants do 15 you have in your pilot program and how are you IG selecting those?
17 MR. GRIMES:
We're just scoping that right 18 now'and we're going to select those based on wh[ere the 19 regions tell us they would like to have n litt1e more 20 priority in terms of looking at electrient systems.
21 So, we'll be talking to the regions about where we 22 ought to go with these pilot programs.
23 Cl! AIRMAN CARR:
Where they've had n history 4
24 of problems, certainly.
25 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
I guesa one of tho NEAl. H.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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things you could do to get at the Chairman's problem f
2 is take a plant where you know that the system's been 3
overloaded or where you've identified changes in the 4
set points and come up with the most. sophisticated 5
simulated test.
I think Tom's point is a good one I,
6 about testing systems that might lend to other 7
problems.
But if you wanted to get at that, you could 8
come up with the most sophisticated simulated test you e
9 could envision and see if it ferrets out the problems 10 that you know to exist in the pinnt.
11 MR. GRIMES:
We'll certainly look at thut.
12 My experience is that the test that I've seen don't 13 really get to all the things that need to
'-~
14 COMMISSIONER CliRTIS S :
One other quick 15 question on the schedule.
Is it envisioned ihnt after 16 the six month pilot program, that you would complete 17 these inspections at all the plants within n two year 18 period after that?
19 MR.
MIRAGLIA:
What our current thinking t
20 would be is to handle it similarly to what we've done 21 in the maintennnee tenm inspectinn.
They wouldn't 22 start until the maintenance team inspections a r+-
23 completed, and those are scheduled to go a little 24 beyond the start of fiscal
'91.
Our initial plan 25
.would be to do all the pinnts, but I think what w e ' v e-1-
- s...
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GROSS 1333 Rhode Island Avenuo, N.W.
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- done, as we've done in the maintenance team 2
inspections, after we've done some should we change 3
the inspection techrique, the acope or the depth?
4 We'd have to assess that and that would be nn ongoing S
activity.
6 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
So we're looking nt 7
FY '93 or '94 to complete the tests?
8 MR. MIRACLIA:
We're looking al. the ntart of 9
FY '91 going through '93, potentially into early
'94.
10 COMMISSIONER CllRTISS:
Okny.
11 CHAIRMAN CARR:
And you're still working on i
12 the criteria for the inspectors then?
13 MR. MIRACLIA:
Yes.
This is a 'very early 14 development.
15 MR. TAYLOR:
This is a subset renlly of the 16 configuration and design control function process 17 where --
18 CllAIRMAN CARR:
And maintenance.
19 MR.
TAYLOR:
- Right, and where you find 20 problems and you can make the case with the industry.
21 The best thing that happens is they get their own 22 programa going to help allevinte conditions as 23 necessary.
They go back into their own plant and 24 review.
25 We've had numbern of ensen where this has NEAL R.
CROSS 1323 Rhode IsInnd Avenue, N.W.
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happened.
As I mentioned, a couple of plants where 2
they have, by.an event and what happened during the 3
. event, they've gone back and detected the overloaded' 4
-bus, maybe DC bus or AC safety bus..
They've 5
immediately recognized the condition they've gotten l
G into.
So they rapidly go through a big review.
I'm 7
s u,r e that they've you know, it just isn't one case.
8 So, that's the type of thing you hope thin type of 9
work will generate.
10 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Okay.
Let's proceed.-
11 MR. GRIMES:
Yes.
The next item is -- Frank l
12 Congel will have it.
E 13 MR. CONGEL:
Cood morning.
My name is Frank j
14 Congel.
I'm Director of.the Di. vision of Radiation I
15-Protection and Emergency Preparedness.
This morning 16 I'd like to give you a brief discussion on the status 17 of their interfacing systems LOCA issue, t
18 The first thing I believe we should do in t
19 describe what an interfacing systems LOCA is.
During 20 normal reactor operation at power, there are systems I
21 isolated from the primary system by virtue of valve, 22 vnlves or a
series of manually or motor-niierated 23 valves and-check valves.
.24 An interfacing system LOCA enn occur when 25 the barrier that separates out the operating system at
, ti
- s..
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power from the subsystems that are designed-t.o operate 2
at lower pressures is brenched.
Thu speelal problem l.
3
'with this kind of a LOCA is that if it occurs, it 4
generally introduces primary coolant. nutside of the Lh 5~
containment so that you actually have breaching of two 6
barriers _ essentially at the same time.
1 t
I-7-
The problem itself is not new.
It was 8
studied extonsively by the Renetor Snfuty Study WAS11 9
1400 and placed'in the perspective with other loss of 10 coolant accidents.
And in fact had not attrneted much 11
. attention since then because based on probablistic 12 risk assessment the issue did not show up very high 13 numerically.
To put it in perspective, it is in the 14 order of 10-8 type of event.
15
- However, in recent times as a
result of 16 primarily our looking at event reports, an Tom pointed 17 out earlier during the introduction, there are some 18 things that occurred both with foreign on well ns 19
- domestic reactors that indicated there may be more to 20 this particular event thnn just a
simple or 21 straightforward mathematien1 analysts in n PRA would 22 indicate.
In f a c t., the humun napect in the one that 23 could possibly increase the probability of this issue 24 so thnt it may be signi fi can t.
l 25 I'd like to emphasize here and I will later l
NEAI. R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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[
l on in my discussion that we have not concluded at this i
2 point that it is significant.
We are looking into the 3
event to determine if it is.
4 Wu have a program outlined to take o look at I
l 5
what precursors may exist and also the manner in which 6
a number of various reactor facilities are opern t ing.
7 Based on a series of these kinds-of, audits and the i.
8 evaluation of the licensing event reports, we plan to i
9 have a firm status.of how we feel about this issue 10 probably. sometime next fall, about
'n year from now.
L 11 Our target is like the fall of 1990.
12 But what are we doing right now in order to 13 assess its significance?
Well, w e.' r e looking at the 1
14 recent events, as I mentioned, to undernt.und what kind T
15 of error modes could lead to an ISLOCA.
One of the 16 things we found already and indications are tbut plant 17 staffs are not very highly. aware of this particular 18 pathwny.
In fact, we found that in one of our recent 19
- audits, in fact our first audit under this program, 20
- t. h a t maintenance was being performed on two valves 21 simultaneously in a system where if both of the valves 22 were open we would have had an TSLOCA event.
- Now, 23 once again, that did not occur, but the fact remained l
24 that the awareness at the plant staf f level was not at 25 such a point that a sensitivity to that pnthway wan I i l ' s.
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Isinnd Avenue.
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We finished our fi r r. t audit.
There is one y
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3 coming up within the next week, wenk and a half for 3
L i
4' another sample plant.
Depending upon the observntions h
4 S
and conclusions of the audit team, we'll be planning L
6 more such visits to plants.
L' h
7 The emphasis at these audits is really in 8
the aren of human reliability and human engineering, 9
although hardware systems are evaluated for integrity m
l 10 because this issue enn, of course, spill over Into the l
11
.MOV issue.
The primary issue that we're focusing on 12 here is the huran aspect and tha effect of procedures
'13 on.the human espect.
i
.e.
L 14 At the same
- time, we're coopernting and t-L 15 interacting ^ with our counterparts in the 0ffice of 16 Research.
Our Research Office is involved in thin 17 project both in terms of systems
- analysis, piping r
18 integrity, accident management, which is another inrne i
19 program with which-I'm sure you have familiarity.
And 20 our intent is, af t er doing enreful evaluntion of t hese
[
21 components, is to pull together the results of these 22 studies in the form of an updnted pRA in thin aren I
23 olong with an-IIR A,
which is a
human relinbi1ity 24 nssessment.
25 As I
me.ntioned
- earlier, the technient i
NEAl. R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Tuland Avenue, N.W.
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- findings, I
- believe, will gain the position to be i
L 2
summarir.ed by the fall of 1990.
p' 3'
That's'my quick summary of the issue right
.[
I 4
now.
4 F
5 DOCTOR MURLEY:
I think I should add, and it L
6 probably 'is obvious, but if we find any problems. in L'
7 these audits or any operational experience, we won't i
8 wait'until the fall of
'90.
We'll take action if we l'
t 9
have to.
We haven't seen the need for that yet.
10 CHAIRMAN'CARR:
And it seems io me prudent
+
11
'i n the design to have check valves in all thoso 12 systems.
Do they?
13 MR. CONGEL:
Yes.
' ~ ' -
14 CHAIRMAN CARR:
And so this is an outgrowth 15 of our check valves not working problem?
16 MR. CONGEL:
No, no, no, not just that.
No, t
it's just one of the 17'
- sir, because there are I
18 contributors.
- But, no, the systems are 'such that 19 there are at least two valves that I'm nware of, of 20 all the systems I'm aware of in series that do the 21 isolation between the various systems that design for 22 the high and the low pressure.
23 DOCTOR MURLEY:
But they're not alI check 24 valves.
25 MR. MIRAGLIA:
They're not all check valves.
I t.-
NEAL R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433
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MR.
CONGEL:
But they're not all check 2
valves.
That's'right.
3 Cll AIRM A N CARR:
Because flow has got io go 4
. bot h. ways,
I assume, or otherwise they could put~n 5'
stop check in it looks like.
I mean -
.well, we.can L.
6 look at that when we look at them.
7 It seems to me this problem also lends n
8 itself~to computerir.ation of tho work proccan liko the F
I 9
drug, stores do when you get conflicting drugs.
If 10 you've got your work process in the computer and you 11 start to take out two va'Ives in the same system that p
12 would cause this problem, somebody.-- something should 13 raise a flag.
14 MR. CONGEL:
That's one of the things that 15 we'll be.looking at.
16 CHAIRMAN CARR:
Is this a cooperntive ef fort i
17 with any other countries or is this just something 18 we'r'e looking at?
Any other people got the problem or 19 just us?
20 DOCTOR MURLEY:
- Well, we are going to be i
21 discussing this with other countries in our bilateral i
1 22 discussions with them about opernting experience.
Unt 23 right now, this program is just a U.S.
program.
l I
j 24 CHAIRMAN CARR:
We're still doing an
.i 26 analysis, I guess, of have we got a problem or haven't l
6 NEAL H.
CHOSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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20005 (202) 234-4433 i
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MR.
TAYLOR:
Right.
We're trying to I
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.3 -
understand the size of it.
+
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MR.
TAYLOR:
That completos
'our t
p 5
' presentation..
E r
lf GL CHAIRMAN CARR:
Any questions?
o' t
7 COMMISSIONER CURTISS:
Good.briefind.
[.
- t. h ' n k the 8
CHAIRMAN CARR:
- Wel1, I want to n
L' 9
NRC staff and also'their assistants, Ted and.C.Y.,
for-10 this informative briefing.
. Encourage you to continuo..
11 your aggressive efforts. in identifying. these type'of 7
O 12 emerging. technical issues.
s 13
.It's equally important,
- however, these
'14 issues be -resolved in a timely mnnner and. not be 15 allowed to linger unresolved. by either NRC or the
[
b 16 licensees if we determine the problem is of such 17 sufficient urgency, t
18 T would suggest that in the fut ure if-you 10 turn up items like this, personally I'd be interesteo 20 in henring about them.
I think it's n'
valuable 21 briefing.
.t 22 Any additional comments?
If not, we stand i:
23 adjourned.
24 (Whereupon, at 11:00 a.m.,
the above-25 entitled matt.er was adjourned.)
i L
[
NEAl R.
GROSS 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
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[
r CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIBER' This is to' certify that the attached events of a meeting
?
of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
TITLE OF MEETING:
BRIEFING ON EMERGING TECHNICAL ISSUES PLACE OF MEETING:
ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND DATE OF MEETING:
OCTOBER 25, 1989 were transcribed by me. I further certify that said transcription i
is accurate and complete. to the best of my ability, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing events.
cl4 p
': tf}L t k.
PETER LYNCH Reporter's name:
\\
k 9
l NEAL R. GROSS l
count ateoaTeas AND TRANSCRittRS 1323 kH006 ISLANO AVENUE, N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHtNGTON, D.C.
20005 (202) 232-6600
p i
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I l
BRIEFING ON-EMERGING TECHNICAL ISSUES OCTOBER 25, 1989 1
Thomas E. Murley Frank J. Miraglia t
l James E. Richardson Brian K.. Grimes i
Frank J. Congel
~
4
{.
l
Contact:
Charles E. Rossi l
Phone:
492-1163 i
i I
l l
1 i
1 l.
i i
h i
4 i
t STRESS CORROSION OF i
INCONEL 600 ALLOYS
- 1 i
i, ISSUE-e Pure Water Stress Corrosion Cracking l
i BACKGROUND:
l e Residual Stresses from Fabrication i
j e Pressurizer Penetrations
- Steam Generator Tubes and Plugs i
i CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS:
l e Calvert Cliffs-2 Pressurizer Repair e Considering NRC Bulletin Requiring
{
inspection of Susceptible Components 2
L i
TEMPORARY NON-CODE l
l REPAIR OF PIPING i
i l
l ISSUE:
l e Structural Integrity of' Piping l
l BACKGROUND:
1 e Non-Code Repair to Avoid Plant Shutdown l
CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS:
1 i
e Proposed Generic Letter
- Relief for Class 1&2 Pipe Reviewed on a Case-by-Cose Basis j
Relief Criteria for Class 3 Pipe i
3 s
P
+_.---,.-w.w--+-m
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_ _. - ~.-... - -.,~
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- _, _ - - -_.- m-e.~e-*w.
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_ _ _____ -,+-.-__,_,
w-v-
i I
INSERVICE TESTING (IST)
RULE l
l ISSUE:
Inservice Testing Requirements Deficient l
i in Assuring Operability of Pumps & Volves BACKGROUND:
e Port 50 Requires Testing of Components l
- ASME Criterio Used for Testing e ASME Criterio are Not Sufficient CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS:
Inservice Testing Generic Letter e
i j
e Motor Operated Volve Generic Letter l
- Rulemaking Effort Being Initiated I
4
i l
CORROSION OF STEEL CONTAINMENT I
t 4
l lSSUE:
i 4
1 j
e Potential Loss of Containment Integrity I
I BACKGROUND:
i l
e Corrosion in Several Steel Containments
.\\
t
- Mark I (Drywell & Torus) l
- Ice Condenser CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS:
l l
e information Notices & Generic Letter i
Issued I
i e Proposed Generic Letter for Periodic Inservice inspection 0
i 1
i i
i
__.___l__.,_.-..______._...__.______--_______-_______________._
t 1
l i
i ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM WEAKNESSES 3
ISSUE:
1 e Ability of EDS to Perform Sofety Functions BACKGROUND:
l e Uncontrolled Load ~ Growth - AC & DC l
e incorrect Setpoints for Protective Relays
{
e Nonsofety Bus Transfer Failures j
e SBO Rule Assumes EDS Works os Designed 1
~
i i
i l
i I
. - -.. _ _. _.. _.. _ _ - _ _ _.. - _ _.. _ _ _ __ _.-.._ --_,_. _ _ _- _... _ _ _. _ _ ~ _-_- _ __ ___ _. _ _.
)
t
?
- i l
i l
1 l
ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM WEAKNESSES (Cont'd) l l
CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS:
1 e Develop Team Inspection to Assess:
I j
- Technical Adequacy and I
Functionality of EDS
- Configuration Control of EDS
- Engineering and Technical Support i
i I
i i
i 1
f O
r e
I i
l INTERFACING SYSTEMS LOCA i
ISSUE:
Precursor Experience Yndicates ISLOCA Outside Containment May Be More Probable
{
Than Previously Estimated BACKGROUND e
Current PRAs Predict Low Core Damage Frequency Numerous Recent Human Errors Related to l
I4ss of Pressure Isolation
)
CURRENT AND PLANNED STAFF ACTIONS Operational Data Assessment Selected Plant Audits to Assess Status I
Balanced Research Program to
- Evaluate Risk Significance j
8 i
1
T 7
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placement in the Public Document Room. No other distribution is requatted or required.
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