ML19323D636
| ML19323D636 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 12/11/1978 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8005220065 | |
| Download: ML19323D636 (41) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:. - _ _ - - _ _ _ _ r' ^ kitEfCu =09 'o UNITED STATES -7, NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 gkW,k. 0,,E WASHINGTON D.C.20555 + e May 9, 1980 OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY COMMISSION DETERMINATION REGARDING PUBLIC DISCLOSURE UNDER THE GOVERNMENT IN THE SUNSHINE ACT OF: Transcript of Discussion of Final Budget Markup December 11, 1978 The Commission previously determined that the subject transcript should be withheld from public disclosure until the Commission's FY-80 Appropriation became law. Following enactment into law of the Commission's FY-80 Appropriation, the Secretary of the Commission, upon the advice of the General Counsel, determined that the subject transcript should be released in its entirety. p a ll _m h Samuel J. Chilk SecretaryoffheCommission scossmogg
= sl ^ NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION - () IN-THE M ATTER OF: CLOSED MEETING - Exemption 9 DISCUSSION OF FIJAL BUDGET MARK ) Place - viashington, D. C. Date - Monday, 11 December 1978 Pages 1-40 ( 7elephone: (202)347-3700 ACE - FEDER.1L REPORTERS,INC. Off.cialReconers .t Lt Nenh C:pitoi Street Y'eshingen. O.C. 20C01 NAT:CNWIDE COVERAGE. DA!LY
2 4 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ERC:mp dict NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2 f 3 4 CLOSED MEETING - Exemption 9 5 DISCUSSION OF FINAL SUDGET MARK 6 l 7 Room 1130 8 1717 H Street, N. W. Washington, D. C. 9 Monday, 11 December 1978 10 t 11 The commission met, pursuant to notice, at 4:00 p.m. 12 BEFORE: ( 13 DR. JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Chairman j i 14 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 15 RICHARD T. KENNEDY, Commissioner L 16 PETER A. BRADFORD, Commissioner 17 JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner 18 i l 19 s' 20 21 22 l ( 23 24 ) Aa Fwwd Rmones, lm-i 25 2
5 6 783.05.1 3 gsh 1 P-R- 0-C-E -E -D -I -N -G-S 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: This piece of the af ternoon's 3 agenda involves a report to you and dicussion of the final 4 budget mark. It's a closed meeting, and we are holding it 5 fairly close as part of, in effect, the budget strategy 6 meetings for Fiscal Year '80, and this tape will be 7 transcribed. The transcription of this meeting will be 8 released barring any privacy or classifying ma.tters at a 9 time when the fiscal budget has been acted upon, you know, 10 as a matter of law and is underway, just as we have done .11 with other meetings during budget stages. 12 Vic stated that it would be useful to have a meeting like 13 this before the event got too far out of 1ine. What I will I 14 report on is the discussions with OMB which took place, I 15 guess, a week ago Friday, and where our sort of final round 16 discussion with people. 17 Maybe as a prelude to that, though, what I wt11 do is let 18 Len, if you have some descriptive discussion to go along with 19 .this, maybe I ought to uncork you. 20 MR. BARRY: I will just refresh your recollection. 21 We passed these summary sheets out to you here. 22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: You did pass.them out? 23 Oh, yes, you did. 24 MR. BARRY: We gave them to Stan's people early this 25 morning. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
5 783'.05.2 4 gsh I ~ CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Yes. I seem to have all kinds of 2 things. 3 MR. BARRY: I.think we can concentrate our attention ( 4 on that sheet. You recall the commission approved for your 5 Fiscal Year '80 budget S389.1 million. 6 OMB's initial mark came back at $363.6 million, as you 7 can see, or $25 million less than we requested. 8 We had a second. 9 MR. CHILK: Would you mind sticking the mike on? 10 MR. BARRY: We had a second meeting with the 11 chairman, Lee Marceau and Elliot Cutler level, along with the 12 OMB examiners. And they put SS million back into the 13 budget -- $3 million in breeder, si million in improved safety ( 14 and I guess there was si million in primary systems integrity 2 15 and 10 people. 16 From a dollar standpoint, we would end up with $20 million 17 less than we requested. What happened to the S20 million? 18 Well, $50 million of it is in research. Just a little over 19 si million is in nuclear material safety and. safeguards. And 20 let me give you a couple explanations on those, and we will 21 get back to research. 22 Nulcear material, safety and safeguards, their rationale 23 was that the mill talking work that doe is going to do and 24 the work that we.will be doing with them is going to be much ( 25 slower than originally anticipated. And in the view of doe, ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
5 783.05.3 gsh I probably two years off. And on that basis, we didn't need 2 quite as much money as we would have needed to stay up with 3 doe on that program. 1 4 S2 million reduction was in PDA administration. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Which chart are you following 6 now? 7 MR. BARRY: We are on this one right here. 8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The bottom line? 9 MR. BARRY: $2 million of the reduction was for 10 document control systems, document retrieval. There we had .I l a S2. million item in there that said if we purchased the 12 document control equipment that we are about to, well, in 13 f act, we are beginning to operate now, we could probably ( 14 save about $2 million in lieu of leasing it over a period of 15 time as a cost avoidance item. 16 Their point was times are tough. We are willing to go on 17 with the lease cost, rather than the cost avoidance. And so 18 they took the $2 million out. 19 And it was about roughtly $2 million worth of reduction 20 because they reduced our request by 46 people and some travel 21 and a little more administrative report in conjunction with 22 the people. 23 So that the main reduction is in research. And let me cover 24 that with you in about 90 seconds here. ( 25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let me understand that $2 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
}783.05.4 6 gsh I million was for buying exactly wnat? 2 MR. BARRY: The equipment that we will be using for 3 the microfish and so on. ( 4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Instead of leasing it? 5 MR. BARRY: Instead of leasing it over several years, 6 we would purchase it. And I think it was over a 5-fear period 7 of time. 8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What were you talking about? 9 What kind of equipment? 10 MR. BARRY: It ls the microfishing equipment, the 11 processing equipment. 12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Not the computers? 13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: The equipment we already are ( 14 using. 15 MR. BARRY: Yes, the equipment we already are using. 16 With this contract we have with the company -- 17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The equipment that turns out 18 the microfishes, or what? 19 MR. BARRY: Yes, that's correct. Not the microfish 20 itself, but the equipment that produces the microfish, the 21 processing equipment. It is rather expensive equipment. And 22 by purchasing it over a five-year lease period, you can save 23 some money. 24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: If we budgeted it in a five-year ( 25 plan, that would have been a good move. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
i 7 783.05.5 gsh 1 MR. BARRY: Would have been a good buy. 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: A year-to-year budget, why, it's 3 tough to beat just paying the lease. 4 MR. BARRY: Okay. So what we are really talking 5 about, then, is how about the $15 million in research, what 6 really came out. 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I.et me just ask you a question 8 about it again. Isn't that program up for review at some 9 point? 10 MR. BARRY: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What would have been the 12 eff ect of buying the equipment? 13 MR. GOSSICK: It wouldn't be until '80, anyway. ( 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I see. You would have ~ 15 reviewed it before we bought it. 16 MR. BARRY: Yes. We would have budgeted for the 17 funds. And then, the $2 million would have been in the budget. 18 But if we had decided to cancel the program or lessened the 19 scope of the thing, then, of course, in '80, we would not 20 have used that $2 million to buy it, of course, or we would 21 have bought a lesser portion, depending on where the program gr ws once the commission looks at it or reviews it. 22 o 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It is academic now. 24 MR. BARRY: Yes, unless we continue to lease. ( 25 Okay, in research, the $50 million reduction. S3.5 million I i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC, (202)347-3700
8 783'.05.6 gsh 1 of it is advanced converters, ASTGR. Administration 2 evidently has made a decision, but they are addressing it 3 with doe that the Administration will no longer suppport any 4 research work in ASTGR. No more gas. 5 They zerced doe's budget so they consecuently zerced our 6 budget. And that was $350 million. 7 MR. DIRCKS: It is all gas, right, gas coal breeders, 8 the whole thing? 9 MR. BARRY: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But since they zerced our part 11 of it, that is not on the basis it is now ready to be 12 commercial. It is that it is just not going to happen. 13 MR. BARRY: It is just not going to happen, yes. ( 14 That's correct, John. 15 .Now, doe, we don't know whether they are going to appeal or 16 not. In talking to many mid-level management, oh, yes, they 17 were going to appeal. But, you know, that is mid-le vel 18 management. 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Who is going to appeal? 20 MR. BARRY: Appeal? doe, for a gas program. They 21 had about $20 million in there. 22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: $25 million, and that was down 23 from $40 million, or something. 24 MR. BARRY: Right. ( 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: And they changed. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
9 783.05.7 gsh 1 MR. BARRY: No, doe tells me they think they 2 will have that resolved one way or the other by the 15th, 3 which is the next few days. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is that going to aff ect our 5 MR. BARRY: Yes. If they put money back into the 6 doe program, they will put money back into our program. If 7 they don't, then they will not. They are also not permi.tting 8 us any funds for any kind of support of NASAP along the 9 same lines. 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What is the argument there? .11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It is over. By >80, it's over. 12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: The point I was trying to make 13 on the ASTGR is that at least a year ago,' the argument was ( 14 whether or not doe ought to have money. or whether it was 15 far enough along so that if it was going to go, it would be 16 done commercially. 17 That argument would, I guess, have no impact upon whether 18 we had money. We would have to have money prepared to license 19 it. 20 But what Len is saying, I think, is that the decision 21 apparently is doe is not going to do it, but at the same time 22 recognizing it is not going to be done. 23 MR. DIRCKS: I think they need a lot of money the 24 gas associates would have made. 25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That consortium that was i l l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
10 783'.05.8 gsh I formed. 2 MR. DIRCKS: They wanted big dollars from the 3 Administration, t 4 MR. BARRY: Another $3.5 mLilion they took out of 5 our research budget, was in improved safety. Do you recall 6 in the '78 authorization act, Congress asked us to get into 7 approved saf ety, change the law. 8 We submitted a plan last March, I believe it was, saying 9 we would like to, or we propose a $150 million saf ety 10 program. We articulated the items and the areas. Consequently, in the '80 budget, we put in $4.4 million 12 as the first part of a three-year program for improved 13 safety. ( 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You are not reading from 15 the chart; you are just speaking from memory? 16 MR. BARRY: Yes. j i 17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: If you go very fast -- 18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: It is on page 2. 19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:.I'll find the line item. 20 MR. BARRY: Yes, go back to page 2. I'm sorry. I 21 live with these programs all the time. 22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: You get more of that narrative 23 than is revealed here, but at least this is the detailed line 2-item. And here is the converter's. item that got bashed in toto. ( 25 MR. BARRY: I was kind of addressing it in order of ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
11 783.05.9 gsh I magnitude. The improved saf ety program, as I was saying, we 2 went in for $4.4 million. And it is the Administration's 3 view that in improved safety, we only ought to do scoping 4 work. And once we have scoped a program of what safety issues 5 or safety concepts ought to be pursued and f urther analysis 6 done and complete studies, it ought to be done by doe. 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Does doe do any LWRC safety 8 work? 9 MR. BARRY: They have not. Well, they used to. They 10 don't now, but they are going to. 11 COMMI.SSIONER GILINSKY: Well, they used to do what 12 we used to do. 13 MR. BARRY: That's exactly right. ( 14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: The pendulum has begun to swing 15 the other way again. 16 MR. BARRY: I think as a result of this, doe put in 17 a request for improved safety work. 18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: How much? 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Where would that be done? 20 MR. BARRY: What part of doe? 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes. 22 MR. BARRY: I can't really tell you. 23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: It would have to be done under 24 engineering technology. ( 25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Where is that? ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERSr INC. (202)347-3700
12 1783.05.10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE2 You mean what laboratory? esh I 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: No. 3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: It is under the assistant 4 secretary for energy technology. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I thought you said 6 engineering technology. 7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Well, no. 8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Are you sure, John, because even 9 now -- 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: When I left, that's where .11 the debate was resolved. That is where it was going to end 12 up going. 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Is that where Barber is going to go on that liaison group on safety research? ' ( 14 15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: At the moment, most likely, 16 since the only other _ alternative place would be -- 17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: He has been hanging out under the environment and saf ety section for, lo, these last three and 18 19 one-half years. And I just wondered if that was going to go, too, because I thought they would probably want to package 20 /,e 21 .tnat. 22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE That had been a decision to 23 put it under the -- i 24 MR. BARRY: It is an Interesting comment, ( l 25 Commi ss ioner. Gil ins ky. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
13 F83.05.Il gsh I COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: How much? 2 MR. BARRY: You mean how much are they going to put 3 into it? ,I 4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Yes. 5 MR. BARRY: I really don't know. 6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I heard they were talking 7 about up to $20 million. 8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY For the 1980 budge t? 9 MR. DIRCKS: That is what they propose. That is 10 not what OMB is going to let them get away with. .11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'll bet you a cookie OMB is -- 12 COMMISSIONER AHE ARNE: $3.3, appropriately modified 13 downward to take into account the dif ferent grade structure. ( 14 MR. BARRY: I would guess that is exactly right. OMS 15 will approve $3.3 or s3.5 because the first s3.5 million of 16 their program has exactly the same description of the program 17 that we were proposing. They didn't borrow our program to 18 look at. 19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'm not sure whether to be 20 delighted at the compliment or outraged at the thievery. 21 MR. BARRY: They just took it and Xeroxed it and 22 changed the name and sent it in. 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: And applied a multiplier. 24 MR. BARRY: Right. That's where we stand on that. 25 That puts the chairman and you gentlemen in a Catch-22 ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
14 1783'.05.12 i gsh I situation because when you go up on the hill, the law says 2 we will do improved saf ety. I'm sure Senator Hart, if it is j l 3 not the first question, it will be the second question. And 4 that is, Mr. Chairman, how are you doing on improved.saf ety, 5 and how much did you ask for? l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I am not going to answer. 7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Superably, s ir. We have it 8 all being done by the Department of Energy, where there is 9 plenty of money. 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I would have thought that the 11 question that the chairman has to be prepared to address is 12 do we want the S4.3 million? 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think as we get over toward the ( 14 February bash, I think we will have to come to some conclusion 15 on that. 16 I made it very clear in the discussion over there with 17 Cutler and company that we really had to recognize there was 18 strong Congressional irterest in this, both sides of the 19 Hill. And this, ultimataly, people decided we should werk on 20 improved reactor saf ety at the $1 million level instead of 21 $4.3.million, we would go ahead like good soldiers and work 22 on it at the $1 million level. 23 COMMI.SSIONER KENNEDY: Have we got a defined program 24 for $1 million? 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: But I told him that I expected ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700 9-
15 -783.05.13 gsh I there would be some difficulty over that, and very likely 2 Congressional mandate -- 3 MR. BARRY: Yes. 4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE2 - to raise the level again which 5 is going to give me pain if it is at the cost of other. things 6 and not an addition to the budget. But they have dec ided to 7 go _this way. And okay, we can do the sort of scoping analyses 8 and first step off results that become available in the 9 confirmatory programs. And then these things can pass to 10 doe for development. .11 The first year or two on the ne sorts of things could be 12 done on either side by either group. And if you want to 13 pass them earlier rather than a step down the line, I guess ( 14 that is not an irrational way to work. 15 It might be that the sensible thing to do would be to 16 try it for a year. And if we decide -- a reasonable view \\ 17 might be, well, let's see how well it goes over there. And 18 if it looks in a year it is just not going and we think we i 19 could do that initial set of. things much better, why, then, l 20 we can say so and perhaps make the case. 21 I.think the important thing was that the legislation gave 22 us the right to look on the improved.saf ety side. It 23 removed that just ridiculous barrier.which defied all logic. 24 MR. BARRY: Okay, they took out $1.8, close to $2 ( 25 million in waste management. The point is they have given us i l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
16 783.05.14 gsh I a substantial increase from S4.6 million up to almost $8 2 million. That is almost double. That the waste management 3 program that they looked at in doe is not moving as f ast 4 as what we had thought at one time, and that almost. doubling 5 of our waste management program was sufficient. 6 So they took a couple million dollars out of that. 7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Is waste management under 8 research? 9 MR..BARRY: Under re search, I'm sorry. 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Where is that? .11 MR. BARRY: Page 2, about the fourth line. 12 COEMISSIONER GILINSKY: They didn't get down to any 13 lower level of detail? ( 14 MR. BARRY: They did not. Just that the doe program 15 was going to move slower and they took a pretty good slug out 16 of that program and correspondingly, they took a -- 17 MR. DIRCKS: Does that mean the dates they have now 18 are different than the dates the DRG is coming up with? 19 MR. BARRY: Bill, they didn't articulate that.well. 20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But that's a very good 21 question. 22 MR. BARRY: Now, you know, they did not take any out 23 of NMSS. l 24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Since that program goes from S4.4 ( l 25 million contract support to s7.6 in '80, that's a pretty big ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
17 F83.05.15 gsh I chunk. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: s7.9, in fact, in '80. 3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, I am just looking at the 4 program support level. So it is a whale of a hump forward. 5 And what I observe is that research and NM.SS are not having 6 so easy a time resolving their points of. view, anyway. 7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I don't think we ought to 8 be concerned with that, anyway. 9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: So I had a feeling this might 10 actually be ample for the. purpose. .11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: This is $2 million they 12 won't have to fight over. 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Right. That $2 million would ( 14 have been probably something that they would have got into 15 deep trouble about anyway. ,That would have been the 16 marginal contract. 17 MR. BARRY: They took over $1 million, actually 18 $1.9 million out of reactor environment. That was primarily 19 epidemiological work. 20 Their position there is that EPA should be really doing 21 most of that kind of work and that the remaining $4 million 22 that we still have in the program ought to be ample to do 23 whatever 3pidemiological work we can get into in terms of 24 research. (~ 25 The epidemiological study is being done by standards. I i l l l ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
18 I783.05.16 gsh I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: _This is $4 million for it? 2 MR. BARRY: I would have to look here. 3 It is health and safety radiation studies, ls what it 4 primarily consists of. This is for research reactor 5 environment, R-63. I will quote what we said when we 6 justified the budget here. 7 okay. These are our general analytical methodology based 8 on in f act assessments for -- well, that is pre. tty general. 9 Develop better understanding of temporal and geographical 10 needs of base load requirements as a basis for evaluating Ji alternative technologies; develop formalized methods and 12 models for socio-economic predictions and assessment. 13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Those are great. We have got ( 14 to make them at the Harvard matrix of words. 15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: That sounds like the boiler plate 16 that goes out on all of our -- 17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Read that blue book. There 18 is a lot of that. 19 MR. BARRY: I was really hoping you wouldn't ask 20 that question. 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I'm surprised. 22 MR. BARRY: What we are saying is it is a new 23 epidemiological work that we had planned to do with the 24 additional amount. See, this is over and above the $4 25 million, that we ought to be able to absorb that work, that ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
19 783.05.16 gsh I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:.This is S4 million for it? 2 MR. BARRY: I would have to look here. 3 It is health and safety radiation studies, is what it 4 primarily consists of. This is for research reactor 5 environment, R-63. I will quote what we said when we 6 justified the budget here. 7 O ka y. These are our general analytical methodology based 8 on in f act asse;sments for -- well, that is pretty general. 9 Develop better understanding of temporal and geographical 10 needs of base load requirements as a basis for evaluating .11 alternative technologiest develop formalized methods and 12 models f or socio-economic predictions and assessment. 13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Those are great. We have got ( 14 to make them at the Harvard matrix of words. 15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: That sounds like the boiler plate 16 that goes out on all of our -- 17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Read that blue book. There 18 is a lot of that. 19 MR. BARRY: I was really hop.ing you wouldn't ask 20 that question. 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I'm surprised. 22 MR. BARRY: What we are saying is it is a new 23 epidemiological work that we had planned to do with the 24 additional amount. See, this is over and above the $4 25 m ill ion, that we ought to be able to absorb that work, that ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
783.05.17 20 gsh I research work. 2 It ought to be on a much lower scale than envisioned, and 3 it ought to be absorbed. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Could we get a more 5 deta ile d. idea on wha t that --- 6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think I'll share out this year 7 and ask each commissioner to take on a piece. I've go t a 8 chunk that I have got in mind. 9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I like that one. That is a 10 great one. .11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: If you can get on first with it. 12 MR. BARRY: Yes, I will provide that. The remaining 13 portion of research, they took out a little bit in site ( 14 technology, and that is s imply, that was just because we 15 had that -- we ll, you know, site technology is a lot of 16 seismic in there. It is broken down into various levels in 17 our rank order, ZBB priority list. And there was about a 18 million and a half do11ars that was pretty.well low ranked in 19 terms of enhancing seismology work. 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Do they drop packages or 21 just -- 22 MR. BARRY We.11, they weren't pure in everything, 23 but basically, they followed our rank order from the bo.ttom 24 up. ( 25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Just knocked stuff off the ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
783.05.18 -21 gsh I bottom? 2 MR. BARRY: That's right. 3 As an example, we had a little over $1 million for site ..g 4 technology research at the rank order of $103 out of $111. 5 That's down toward the bottom. 6 And so they were simply -- that's what we call the 7 enhanced le vel. 8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: They stepped it back one level. 9 MR. BARRY: That's right, to keep the current program. 10 Now, every time you talk about a reduction, you ought to 11 look at the '79 baseline at the same time. And you will see e en though they reduce from our request -- 12 v 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Site tech went up almost $2 ( 14 million in contract money. 15 MR. BARRY: That's right, and that is plenty. Okay. 16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: They allowed us, I would note, 17 the 3D. You remember, we came along and tacked some dollars 18 into 3D af ter the main transmission of the budget. They 19 allowed it. 20 on the other hand, they also docked us some money in that 21 account. So they broke out even. ~ 22 In fact, they made $400,000 in the deal. It was sort of 23 like a commission f ee for being willing to transact the 24 additional item. i 25 MR. BARRY: They also gave us adequate funding in i i ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
22 ) 783.05.19 gsh I law and between the adequate funding in law and the 2 additional money they put into systems engineers for 3D, 3 I had to tell them we had adequate funis between the two 4 line items to take care of some of the reduc tions in systems 5 engineering. 6 So we just don't have a problem there. And than, if you 7 acU all those li.ttle numbers up I just gave you, you are up 8 to about $15 million in research. It just doesn't take very 9 long. 10 Again, I provided you a second handout this morning, a JI li.ttle summary page. I think that is a kind of good one to 12 look at because we do increase -- 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It adds to s41.9. ( 14 MR. BARRY: That is the increase we get. That was 15 from the basellne we submitted OMB on s330 million, which was 16 not what was appropriated to us in '79. 17 If you recall, we were cut $1 million. 18 So if you go from the appropriation baseline of $322 19 million, we really had an increase of $46 million. 20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: That $41 is an increase over 21 what? /- 22 MR. BARRY: An increase over a baseline. If'you wi.ll 23 be kir enough to turn to the. third page -- 24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It's deltas over the '79 25 presidential. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
.783.05.20 23 gsh 1 MR. BARRY: Almost. What's in the '79 b6seline is 2 the $322 million appropriation, the pay raise for '79, and 3 about $4.8 mi.111on of unobligated '.77 balance for!aarded into 4 >79, which we will now spend. 5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: In other words, the s331 6 million is in no way related to the SJ30 million? 7 MR. BARRY: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: The $373 mi.111on is estimated 9 outlais. 10 MR. BARRY: No, s373 million is the estimated 11 obligations, including pay raise, that we have in there. 12 That is the difference between the $373 million on this 13 piece of paper and.the $368 million you looked at on the
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14 other. 15 We don't put the pay raise in there at the time of the 16 budget submission, although at the last llth hour, OMB was 17 going to try to make us swallow that. 18 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: So the S41.9, then, is the 19 Inc rea se, the two things you're considering. On the one hand, 20 it was the money that was appropriated, plus the carryover 21 plus the supplemental that is your base. 22 MR. BARRY: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Then, what you are comparing 24 it to is the OMB final authorization, plus the pay raise. 25 MR. BARRY: Plus the pay raise. ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. (202)347-3700
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- 783.05.21 gsh I
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: So both of them are in which 2 year dollars? 3 MR. BARRY: They are in '79 dollars. I'm sorry, 4 they are not, really. One is in '79 dollars; one is in '80 5 dollars, end-year dollars. i 6 CahWISSIOtlER AHEARtiE: So there is escalation in 7 there also. 8 9 10 jl 12 13 ( 14 15 16 17' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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25 4 i . ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERSr INC. (202)347-3700
25 CR 1783 1 MR. BARRY: That's right. And if you come back to i ERC: t#6 Pmcc 1 2 the first page there, there is $13 worth of inflation there. COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Where? 3l 4 MR. BARRY: Where it says, " Higher cost and I 5 contracts," that's inflation. i 6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Oh, 7 MR. BARRY: That gets us the contractual support 8 that you inflate. So, in other words, you say what's the 9 reason for the $41.9 increase? 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: We don't buy enough stuff, I 11 then, that causes that inflation to have any impact otherwise. 12 MR. BARRY: It is just the higher cost of doing 'g 13 business with contractors. 14 The reason for the increase of about $42 million is i 15 $16.6 of it is because of law, the full year costs of law. f 16 So in '80 for the first time we will have the total cost of I 17 law. DOE will share none. 18 This year they shared half of the operating cost. 19 COMMISSIONER AHEARdE: Then, since you have already 20 -put pay increase in also, somewhere embedded in here is the 21 Pay increase. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Where is the pay increase? .f\\ 23 MR. BARRY: The pay increase is in Lsun years. 24 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But it is a different pay A*FMerd Rgorms,1w. l 25 increase. i I
l 27 pmcc 3 I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What is the average salary 2 of an employee going at? Can you account for it by these j 3l i ) being annual pay increases, or is it going up aside from that r( 4 or going down? l 5 MR. BARRY: No, it is holding. I i 0 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It has been pretty constant. It 7 has been sort of flicking along at a couple of hundreds of a 8 grade point, like it has been 11.8, 11.9. And it goes down to 9 11.8 and up. 10 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: When you take that average Il grade, do you take steps in the count also? 12 MR. GOSSICK: No. 13 { COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But that matters a lot. l Id MR. BARRY: Not average grade. Average salary, you l t 15 do, i I6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: In average grade you don't i 17 take steps into account? 18 MR. GOSSICK: No. I 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What are we being told then, 20 if the average grade is staying the same? Is the average salary 21 also staying the same? 22 MR. BARRY: No, no, not necessarily. The average 23 salary is going up. It has to because everybody is getting a l Aw. Federal Reporters, Inc. pay raise every year. 24 l 25 MR. GOSSICK: The only. thing is a step increase, ! l t, i I l m
l 28 i l l pm'cc 4 I whether we are making more step increases and people stay on i ) 2 and qualify for step increases. It would in time go up. 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Could we get a little report 4 on that? { I 5 MR. BARRY: Sure. i i 6 MR. DIRCKS: The tighter you are in promotions, the 7 more your salary is going to flow up anyway, because you are 8 keeping people in grade longer. 9 MR. BARRY: You will also recall under the Civil 10 Service Reform Act grades 13 through 15 won't have automatic 11 step increases any longer. And, of course, above the 15 12 nobody gets a pay raise anyway. We are all locked into the 13 same thing. ( 14 But the average salary does go up over time simply l 15 because primarily of pay raises. l 16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: That's what I am concerned 9 17 with. Could you give me a little note on that, please? l 18 MR. BARRY: Certainly. 19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: My guess is it is about 80 plus 20 percent pay raise, and the rest of it is step increases. 21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Is the grade creep question 22 under control? ( 23 MR. GOSSICK: Is what? 24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: The' grade creep question under, Am-Fewd Rewrters, lec. { 25 control? i
26 i p.ccc 2 1 MR. BARRY: No, no. There is no ' 80 pay increase 2. in here, just the '79 pay increase. You don't put an '80 3 increase in there until after the ' 80 budget is submitted, r-T 4 assuming there is another October pay raise. So you are only i 6 5 talking about the '79 pay raise. So you have comparability. L 6 When I say personnel increases, that SS.7 is for the l 7 108 people that you would hire in '80, plus paying for a full 8 year cost of the 65 people that you are hiring this year. 9 Now, that is the reason for the $5.7. i 10 The $6.6 in program increases is a result of a lot of minuses and pluses. Things go down and things go up. The net I i i 12 difference would be a program increase, contractual increase 13 of $6.6 million. ( I 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What is happening to our i 15 salary per employee, pay increases aside? In other words, is 16 that staying level, or is that drifting upwards? 1 17 MR. BARRY: I can tell you -- I can tell you in just 18 a second what it is. 1 19 I think this is what you are asking. For instance, 20 our people cost as a percent of the total, total 100 percent, l 21 our people cost in '78 was 29 percent of our budget. In '79 22 it was 29 percent of our budget. In '80 it will be 27 percent ( 23 of our budget. 24 Our program support, Aucuma nnatm. Inc. the contractual cost, the NABS i I 25 and the -- i
29 i pmcc 5 1 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: He has got it slowed down. 2 l MR. GOSSICK: We have got everybody reporting as a I 3l. mandatory item on their briefings they give us every week, I ( 4 and I think that we are seeing signs that it is being taken 5 very seriously. People are doing things to try to get it i 6 done, and I am encouraged with what I am seeing. l 7 It is going to be very slow. It is not something i I 8 that you correct in the near term, but you just have to keep 9 plugging away at it to get it down. 10 MR. BARRY: One thing I might mention, one last 11 thing, is that even with our problems of nine different l 1 1 12 locations, we have hopefully through efficiencies, good l 13 management been able to hold our housekeeping functions pretty ! ( I 14 constant in terms of a percentage of budget. I 15 Back in '78 we were running 13 percent of our budget 16 was administrative costs, all the housekeeping, travel, l 17 so on. Next year in '79 it looks like it will be 11 percent. 1 18 '80 it will be 11 percent, just a little under 11 percent. So i 19 we are doing all right there. 20 And rents are going up. Everything is going up, all 21 except the rents and so on and as a percent of our total 22 budget. ( 23 If we could ever, of course, get in' one building, 24 that would drop way down, drop down several million dollars. l A=.reer.i nworrm. ix. l L 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Do you have other things on these l
3 0~ l pmec 6 1 things you want to note? 2 MR. BARRY: Just that. Of course, with the down i 3 market we did get an increase of 108 people. And because of, 4 again, the Civil Service Reform Act that says the government I 5 will not exceed their 30 September 1977 limit ceilings, for the. 6 108 that we get up, somebody has to go 108 below their -- or t 7 many people will have to be below their 30 September '7'i level i 8 in order to provide u: the 108. 9 I understand that there is two or.three other 10, agencies that will go up in strength, whereas most agencies wili 11 go down. And if anything was difficult, it was to give us { l 12 People increases. ( 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let me comment on the outcome of I 14 the Reclama meeting and so on. i 15 We, you know, played cut the deck and looked at each, 16 others' cards and so on. And we ended up with ten more slots l'7 to bring it up to 108 and the dollars five million back, which 18 wasn't a great fractional return, in view of the widespread j l 19 sort of all staff officers want Reclama and everything. 20 I must say against the background in which mos agencies are 21 taking personnel cuts to have had as much support as we had e l 22 from the budget people over there, as Len says, the 100 plus, k 23 and the overall dollar volume is going up, it really left me 24 at a point where you can always vote me down and decide to go Am FMwW Reporters,1mt 25 off in some different direction, but I just conclude that with l
31 l pmcc 7 1 further appeal and airing of the closing and so on is not 2 appropriate. 3 And so I would not propose to you that we attempt to ( 4 go back and argue over other bits and pieces. I will call 5 your attention to one late running thing which was not a 6 discussion at the Reclama. It was forwarded later on, a g 7 summary note. l 8 By the way, Peter, I mentioned to Elliot that I I 9 wished they would, for pity's sake, stop mentioning our 1 10 favorite group out there at East-West when they send us these i 11 notes. l 12 The item that I refer to is a terrible blow to the t 13 Commission. They are proposing to reduce the representational l 14 allowance from $20,000 requested and $15 actual in '79 to 15 $7,500. So I was forced to call Elliot up and point out to 16 him that pennywise is pound foolish here. And we talked back 17 and forth a little bit and agreed we would send over some 18 further remarks, which Lee got prepared and sent along. i 19 I don't know how that is coming out. But it may be 20 that -- 21 COMMISSIONER FENNEDY: I thought they gave us 22 $5,000 back or something. '[ l 23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Do we know if there was any 24 recovery? l AwFwwal Rmorters, lm. { 25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Could I get a copy of this? i
d 32 pmcc 8 1 MR. BARRY: Sure. 2l MR. GOSSICK: They were sent down. 3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: That is wnat they look like. It 1 ( 4 is that thing. 5 The other stuff is miscellaneous stuff. 6; MR. GOSSICK: It went down Friday night late. i 7 MR. BARRY: It went down to Cutl'.r Friday night at l l 8 7:00 o' clock, and then we had to go back to my office this j i 9 morning and make copies of it. So it will be down to you. l 10 ! COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Can you tell us something i 11 about the Appeal Board. l 12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, you know, they seized upon 13 your suggestion that we look at the appeal board function, and i k i 14 they said, " Hurrah, hurrah, we applaud this move of the 15 Commission. Cut that out of the '80 budget, because nurely by ' 16 that time you won't need an Appeals Court." 17 I said, " Wait. We need that function. And whether 18 it is absorbed into the Commission or stays as an Appeals i ii 19 board or in some other form, we are going to need those things 20 that those 15 people do. " 21 We argued at some length on that. In fact, out of 22 the ten people that Elliot was willing to allow me back, he 23 finally got out of his vest pocket at the last minute -- half l 24 of them were normally, in his view, for Appeals Board stuff, Am-FMud Recorten, Inc. { 25 but he did agree that we would in effect control the destiny
33 i p$cc 9 1 of the Appeals Board here and that really the number that 2 counted was the 2896 fiscal year '80, and if the Commission I 3: wanted a 15 or any other number Appeals Board group, that was -{ 4 the Commission's business. 5 And I thought I had an agreement with him that they i 6 -- and also the docur.ents exchanged between us would refrain 7 from mentioning that. Unfortunately, there was a note from l 8 Joe Carney to Len Barry that got distribution down here that 9 mentioned the Board and suggested that, in their view, why, j 10 seven of the plus ten that we had on Reclama were to go back 11 in there. I 12 Well, I have since told Elliot, "Come on, we had an I i 13 agreement you would stop mentioning that matter, because I 14 just don't want to upset the Appeals Board people and have 15 them go off submitting their resumes around town. They are 16 good people, and I just don't want them to." i 17 Well, I called Rosenthal and said, "Be of good i 18 cheer" and so on. And I don't think we will get any more. 19 This also, you see, is where they snuck in the knife on l l 20 representation. t 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I assume they are aware we 1 22 are looking into that, the Board. 23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: That was the basis for their cut, i 24 that they were sure we would find that the Commission wanted to bFederal Reporters, Inc. 25 do that or whatever. I i I
l f ~ 34 pmcc 10 1 That's it, unless you have questions. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Where do we deal with that 3 aspect of it? i k 4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Do you want a scan out of it? i 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: In other words, the question i 6 in fact is where you are coming up with the places to get the l 6 7 board back up to snuff. l 8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Yes, in part. And if you want.. I 9 to truck one more back into, allow the council to go up one l 10 from the '79 level, we can do that. i n 11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: 4hy would you want to raise 12 the council? 13 COMMISSIONE '!ENDRIE : It had been in the original. 4 I 14 It was part of the original request. I don't know. They 15 ought to go up one from '78 to '79. 16 MR. BARRY: OMB supported it. Of course, it covers 17 lawyers,,and he likes lawyers. i 18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: However you come out on the i i 19 Appeal Board, I suspect we will be taking more interest in 20 this. 21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I am not arguing against it. 1 22 I am just curious. I think what you are saying is you don't ( I 23 think ODC is strong enough at the moment. j i 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:_ Well, I think I would like --l l AwFMwal Humrtus, lrw. l 25 there are things I would like to see them doing that they are l l Y \\ 1
35 i pmec 11 1 not doing. 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: What is the current strength on 3 OPE? Somebody told me it was 16. f 4 MR. BARRY: 16 on board. They have two vacancies. 5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: ODC, how many vacancies? 4l MR. GOSSICK: At least one. 7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: That's not their fault. 8 MR. GOSSICK: I don't know. t 9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: There was nothing they could j l 10 do about that. i 11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: In fact, they must have two, 12 because they are hiring someone. ? 13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I would think they would not now k i 14 because we just cleared an exemption for them to take on 15 board. And I think that's probably their '78 to '79 delta 4 16 would be my guess, the one person they were allowed to add. i 17 Now, if we get them a chief -- i 18 MR. BARRY: Mr. Chairman, you remember OMB cuc two 1 19 spaces out of OPE. 20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: OMB idn't cut any spaces out.) 21 of anybody. They gave us numbers, and you guys asked for 22 details. So they finally gave you details on what they did, a 23 They were very careful. In fact, on Joe Carney's memo back to l' 24 us, as Elliot was in the meeting that Joe is talking about, Ace Feoeral Reporters, Inc. 25 that the total number -- we get total numbers, and they adjust
36 i i o i pmcc 12 1 people within those total numbers. l 2 MR. BARRY: You have to ask how do they build their 3 numbers. ( 4 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: No, you don ' ~t. That is I 5 internally to them. t i 6! CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: But you did ask, so we know that. 7 But that is in fact -- l 8 MR. BARRY: They didn't all of a sudden come up with l' 9 it the last minute, and here is how we did it. They had it 10 documente/. 11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Sure, of course, because they 12 are budget examiners, and they have to build their case 13 internally just as we build our case. I am just trying to 14 make clear I don't want the record to indicate that OMB cut us., 15 We have a total number, and we allocate the people amongst i 16 ourselves. 17 MR. BARRY: My only point I was going to make, Mr. 18 Chairman, you did irrespective put the two back in yourself. i 19 That is a judgment the Commission would probably want to know. 20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I didn't know whether to move one 21 up from OPE to OGC, if you prefer to do that, or if you want 22 to pull it out of the major office total. I don't know. ( 23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: 'I would rather keep OPE 24 strength. I have no problem with adding more to OGC, but -- Aa-FWwal Remnus. Inc j l 25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would have pulled it from 4 3 4
37 1 i pmcc 13 1 the major of fice stuf f. I am at a loss now as to exactly what l 2 it was,0GC, but I had a feeling they made a -- a better than l 3i some case. I i I I think their original request was for -- 4 i l 5 MR. BARRY: Yes, and you gave them one. 6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: And I would be inclined to 7 keep that. l 8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Are you saying that you 9 would not take it from OPE? l i i 10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would not take it from OPE.; I 11 If it were me, I would take it from NRR. l 1 12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: And that is the place where you 13 have a large delta. On the other hand, there is also a place { 14 you have a large mean. 15 MR. DIRCKS: That is the one they fell over in 16 listening to so much on. 17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: How badly does Howard need the i { 18 additional lawyer in there? l \\ 19 MR. GOSSICK: Well, every year we seem to keep coming 20 back for 99 or 100, and they never quite got there. It is 4 0 21 mainly in the administrative kind of support. That is the 1 1 22 contract lawyers, grievances, we are going to have a lot more y 23 with this union that we have had before. ) l -24 I'm sympathetic to his cry, and we gave it only after: ) Am PwerM Rmorters, Inc. j 25 looking at his caseload to see whether he could shuffle down j l t ! l )
i 38. g t pmcc 14 1 other parts of the organization,which he has done a little 2 bit. 3I He has still got the case he makes on all those i .c 4 amendments. That requires a lot of legal help. And we have 5 finally come out here with a net increase of two to him in '80. 6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: We can always split the -- 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What would be the status of l 8 OPE? They had what in '79 and would be getting what in '807 9 MR. BARRY: 18. They have had 18 all along. They 10 are currently at 16. 11 MR. GOSSICK: They are currently at 16, I believe. Is 12 that right? COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We would be doing what? ( 13 14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE : Leaving them at 18. 15, MR. GOSSICK: That means three spaces to come up with i 16 one for OGC and two for OPE. I 17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: No, OPE is 18. 18 MR. GOSSICK: I'm sorry? I i 19 MR. BARRY: Just the one space. One thing we have 20 to be careful of, once you've cut your commission staff, it is 21 harder than hell to get them back again because of this so 1 22 called overhead, and OMB and the Congress both are just not as A 23 amenable to overhead as they are to the line. 24 And the same thing goes for lease overhead, staff Aa FeerM Reorters, lnc. j 25 officers. It is tough to justify, and it is tough to win i ,1 j
i 31 l pmec 15 1 overhead positions. 2 And this is a pretty good budget this time. We are 3! not asking for much of an increase in overhead, very little. I ( 4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Okay, you want it out of NRR? t 5 COMMIChiW:SR GILINSKY: Are we basically keeping 6 commit ioned officers at the same level? 7 NR. GOSSICK: Increase of one, 250 to 251. 8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: An increase of one, it would be 9 the one in OGC. 251. 10 We could trim IND one, we could trim NRR one, we 11 could NMSS one. Standards and Research are at '79 levels 12 across there, and I prefer not to bump either of them. l l 13 Preferences? i l 14 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Among those three, not really! 15 COMMTSSIGNER AHEARNE: No. 16 MR. DIRCKS: It is too close to home on NMSS, but -- { 17 CHAIFemN HENDRIE: Bill, you have got your DEDO on i 18 at the moment, and I don' t want to hear that partisan talk from-l' 19 Wilsteen. 20 MR. DIRCKS: But you did go back and Reclama.those, I 21 just a minute number to get us back in that spent fuel 22 business. You haggled over five, and they gave you two or d i ^ 23 something like that. And now to take the two that they gave 24 you and say we are going to put one of those two into OGC, Am Feerat Rumrms, inc i 25 'that margin --
4C i i pmcc 16 1 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: No, I didn't do that. I had 2 no problem with NMSS. I thought it was IND and NRR. l 3I CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: You want us to cross NMSS from I ( 4 the list of eligible of fices?. i 1 5 MR. BARRY: Let me offer something too. f 6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: What I look at there is here is 7 an office that has, even though safeguards is going down, it i 8 has all that fuel cycle stuff there, a central issue, and for i 9 the overall office at that I had to strain to get it to go up 10 a three in two places from '79 to '80. 11 I guess I wouldn't have any trouble with that. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: How many do we have to get t 13 out? I k I 14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I need to take one person away 15 from somebody. Let's take it away from the biggest c :fice in i s 16 town. How about thac? IND? 17 Good, 724. That has the ring of a number more 18 carefully parsed than 735. Okay. i end t#6 19 (Whereupon, at 4:54 p.m., the meeting was adjourned.)' 20 21 22 k 23 24 AwFWwd Reorters, lm:. i l 25 4 e}}