ML19322C846

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Deposition of R Nimitz (NRC) on 791121 in Bethesda,Md.Pp 1-30
ML19322C846
Person / Time
Site: Crane 
Issue date: 11/21/1979
From: Allison D, Nimitz R
NRC - NRC THREE MILE ISLAND TASK FORCE, NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I)
To:
References
TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001280570
Download: ML19322C846 (31)
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1 CR 8935 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ~PL 1 (^_j NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Sinn 2 - - - - - - - -X 3 In the Matter of: 4 THREE MILE ISLAND 5 SPECIAL INQUIRY DEPOSITIONS 6

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6935 Arlington Boulevard 4th Floor 8 Bethesda, Maryland 9 Wednesday, November 21, 1979 3:00 p.m. 10 BEFORE: 11 For the Nuclear Regulatory Commission: 12 /-) DENNIS ALLISON, TMI/NRC Special Inquiry Group (/ 13 GEORGE FRAMPTON, ESQ., TMI/NRC Special Inquiry Group ROBERT BERNERO, TMI/NRC Special Inquiry Group 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 i l 23 s_/ 24 Ace Federd Reporters, Inc. 25 I

1-A 1 CONTENTS O ~~~~~~~~ 2 WITNESS: EXAMINATION 3 Ronald Nimitz 2 4 5 6 _E _X _H _I _B _I _T_ _S 7 NIMITZ EXHIBITS: IDENTIFIED 8 1 3 9 2 4 l 10 3 5 i i 11 l 12 O u 14 15 16 17 18 3 19 l l l 20 j l 21 22 23 24 Ace Federet Reporters, Inc. l 25 l _.,_,i

D395 01 01 2 hPL I MR. BERNERO: Ron, as you can see, I've been 2 granted the authority of the commission to take your oath 3 for this testimony. 4 Would you please raise your right hand? 5 Whereupon, 6 RONALD NIMITZ 7 was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, 8 was examined and testified as follows: 9 EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. BERNERO: .11 0 You received a le tter f rom this inquiry f rom 12 Mr. Mitchell Rogovin regarding your a ppearance here to give 13 testimony today. You have a copy of that le tter before you. 14 A I have a copy in my brief case. 15 0 Okay. Well, I'll hold my copy out for you. In 16 t ha t le tter, it indicated to you that you have the right to 17 have an NRC a ttorney in attendance here with you if you so 18 desired. And as I recall, I spoke to you over the phone 19 about this. 20 I would note for the record that you don't have someone 21 here. Is this satisf actory to you to proceed without an 22 attorney? 23 A Right. 24 0 Okay. If at any time during the discussion or 25 questions and answers here in this deposition, if you f eel V

D395 01 02 3 shPL I that you would be better off with an attorney representing 2 you, don't hesitate to interrupt me and say so and we can 3 take the a ppropriate steps. 4 Now I further asked in the letter which I prepared for 5 Mr. Rogovin's signature f or you to bring a copy of your 6 resume. 7 Do you have that with you? 8 A Yes, I have a copy. 9 0 Okay. Thank you. I have here resume headed, 10 " Ronald L. Nimitz." .11 MR. FRAMPTON: Let's just mark this Nimitz Exhibit 12 1 of this date. 13 (A resume was marked as marked 14 Nimitz Exhibit No. I for gg V 15 identification.) 16 BY MR. BERNERO: 17 0 Mr. Nimitz, you have just presented us with a 18 series of handwritten notes, the first page of which is 19 dated 3-29-79. 20 Are these the extent of the personal notes f rom the TMI 21 a ccident t ha t you have in your possession? 22 A No. I'm sorry. I thought I had -- I've got some 23 more. I've got some more. I'm sorry. These here are some 24 more of my scribblings f rom the 28th. 25 MR. FRAMPTON: Off the record. O

D395 01 03 4 hPL 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 3 0 Let's go back on the record again. 4 Mr. Nimitz, showing you the note pad notes which bear the 5 date, 3-29-79 on the first page, these are your own 6 handwritten notes, are they, from March 29 and af ter? 7 A Yes. These are all my notes. 8 MR. FRAMPTON: All right. I'd like to have these 9 marked as Nimitz. Exhibit 2 of this date, please. IC (Handwritten notes were marked .31 Nimitz Exhibit 2 for 12 iden tification. ) 13 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 14 0 You've also given us another group of handwritten ) 15 notes, including some diagrams and calculations. And in the 16 back of this sheaf, there are about 11 pages of lined paper 17 with handwritten notes. 18 One of these pages bears the date 3/28/79. And there 19 appear then to be at least two pages of handwriting. 20 Are some of these note s notes that were taken by you on 21 the 28th? 22 A If they're dated 3-28, I probably took those notes 23 then. 24 MR. FRAMPTON: Okay. I'd like to have this entire 25 sheaf marked as Nimitz Exhibit 3 of this date. O

)395 01 04 5

hPL i ( A sheaf of handwritten notes was 2 marked Nimitz Exhibit No. 3 for 3 identification.) 4 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 5 0 Now, do the two sheaf s of notes that we've marked 6 Exhibits 2 and 3 comprise all cf the handwritten notes that 7 you still have that you took during the first couple of days 8 of the accident at Three Mile Island? 9 A As f ar as I know, that's it. 10 MR. FRAMPION: Okay. .Il BY MR. BERNERO: 12 0 I'd like to go now into some questions that go 13 back to t hat period of time and ask you to answer them. In 14 the first place, when you heard of the accident at Region i 15 when you re ported to work, who designated you to go to the 16 TMI site on March 28th? 17 A From what I can recall, Hilbert Crocker, who was 18 at the time my acting section chief, requested that I 19 a ccompany the team. 20 0 Is that as a fuel cycle and materials saf ety 21 section or something like that, isn't it? 22 Are you in that section? 23 A No, I'm in the radiation support section. 24 0 And he was acting section chief ? 25 A He was acting chief. r') LJ l l

0395 01 05 6 hPL 1 O Now, what instructions did he give you, do you 2 recall? 3 A Basically, collect information regarding Three 4 Mile tech's inspection, FSARs, and what have you, and get my 5 necessary travel orders and meet with the other people that 6 have been assigned and go to the site. 7 0 Who was designated to be your supervisor while you 8 were at the TMI site? 9 A I was told that Don Neely would be my acting 10 supervisor. .11 0 Is Don Neely a person you knew? Had you worked 12 with him? I 13 A He's a senior inspector in the radiation support ( x, 14 section. V 15 0 He was known to you prior to the accident, so he 16 was not a stranger that you would be working with? 17 A Yes. 18 0 Had you ever been to the TMI site before yourself ? l 19 A Yes. Myself and Karl Plumlee, who also 20 accompanied me on the team. We had looked at some problems 21 with respect to radioactive waste shipping at the site. 1 22 0 How long before and how many times had you been 23 there? 24 A I think it was in 1977, a pproximately July of l 25 1977. I was there off and on for about a week. l l l I

0395 01 06 7 gshpL I O Is this when you were a co-op with the branch, 2 with Region 17 3 A Yes. 4 0 According to your resume, I see here from May of 5 1977 till August' of 1977, you worked in a cooperative status 6 as a radiation specialist with the f uel f acility in the 7 material safety branch. 6 That was Crocker's normal branch, wasn't it? 9 A No. The fuel f acility material saf ety branch 10 encompasses approximately 4 or 5 sections. And the 11 radiation support section is one section in the branch. 12 0 O h, I see. I'd like to clarif y while we're on the 13 subject of employment, then, you left the NRC in August of 14 1977 to return to graduate school and returned in July of k.w) 15 1978, where you have been an intern radiation specialist? 16 A Yes. 17 0 Since that time? 18 A Yes. 19 0 Are you on the two-year intern program? 20 A Yes, right. 21 0 So that your intern status will be finished in 22 July of 1980, this coming July? 23 A Yes. 24 0 During the period between July of 1978 and the 25 present when you've been radiation specialist intern, could ) L

l D395 01 07 8 hPL 1 you give me a general description of your activities, what 2 sort of work you were doing? 3 A Basically, I was essentially acting in the -- 4 acting as a senior radiation specialist with the section. I 5 was going out with senior inspecto.rs, programming 6 inspections, writing re ports. 7 I had worked on several civil penalty packages and 8 basically reviewing specialty areas such as respiratory 9 protection, radioactive waste handling, radio-chemistry such 10 as that. j i .11 I was essentially acting as a full inspector, but I had a ) I 12 senior specialist that sort of oversaw my work. 13 0 Do you believe that you did more than the usual ] 14 level or higher level work than the usual interm might do ) 15 because of your rather comprehensive background and 16 experience? 17 A Right. From my understanding, the reason I was 16 cla ssed as an intern was because at the time, there wasn't a 19 position available, a full-time position. 20 So they brought me in as a intern. 21 0 but your resume indicates that your actual 22 physical experience as a radiation technician or radiation 23 specialist goes back to 1972? 24 A Yes, sir. 25 0 Now, you arrived at the site shortly af ter 10:00 s fU

395 01 08 9 hPL 1 a.-m. on the 28th in the original group of five. 2 A Right. 3 0 In the station wagon? 4 A Yes. 5 0 Were you in the group, then, when it was briefed 6 by Jim Seelinger of Met Ed? 7 A Yes. 8 0 Okay. Now, did anyone call the region as soon as 9 t ha t team got to the Unit I control room? 10 A From what I can recall, Mr. Seelinger briefed us 11 and at approximately 11:00, quarter till 11 : 00,.11 : 00, we, 12 myself and C. Oallina, established a phone hook-up with the 13 region. 14 Okay. So - 15 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 16 0 Let me go back for a minute. I think you said 17 that you got to the site around what time? 18 A We got to the site approximately 10 after 10:00. 19 Ten o' clock. 20 0 And there were five of you? 21 A Right. 22 0 Okay. How many people went on to the island? 23 A All five of us went on. 24 O And you all .:t to the uni t I control room to be 25 briefed? (

9395 01 09 10 hPL 1 A Yes. 2 0 And you were briefed by Mr. Seelinger. Is that 3 right? 4 A Right. 5 0 How long did that take? Was that a long time? 6 A No. It was -- he basically gave us a brief 7 rundown of what the status was, some radiation readings. 8 Higgins, who was a reactor inspector, operations type 9 inspector, received the information f or the operational 10 status. And the whole briefing, from what I can recall, was .I l not that long. 12 0 After the briefing, did anyone leave the island? 13 A No, no one left the island. 14 0 Okay. The five of you stayed in the Unit 1 {} 15 control room? 16 A No. Af ter we were brief ed, myself and C. Gallina 17 set up a command. 18 0 When you say C. Gallina, you mean -- 19 A Charles Gallina. Charles Gallina, one of the 20 members of the team. We set up a command post at Unit i 21 shif t supervisor's office and Don Neely and Jim Higgins went 22 to Unit 2 control room to essentially work at the -- I guess 23 it was called the emergency center. 24 0 Okay. That's 4 of you. Wha t about the fif ~th 25 person? O i

)395 OI 10 11 i tPL i MR. BERNERO: Plumlee. 2 THE WITNESS: Oh, Plumless, because of the -- we 3 were interested in the nature of the off-si.te doses and what 4 have you. Karl was delegated to go outside the plant and 5 basically check the radiation levels on the perimeter of the 6 island and parking lots and things like that. 7 But to the best of my knowledge, he didn't leave the 8 island. 9 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 10 0 Do you know whether he came back into the plant .11 during the day? 12 A He came back in off and on. Virtually anytime 13 anyone got any additional information, be it dose rates, 14 reactor status, anything of that nature was virtually 15 immediately transmitted back to the region. 16 0 Well, now, the question I asked you was whether 17 Mr. Plumlee came back into the plant into Unit I control 16 room. 19 A Ye s, he did. 20 0 So you would see him coming in and out? 21 A Right. 22 0 Do you know whether he was in the Unit 2 control 1 23 room at all during the day? 24 A Not that I know of. ) 25 0 All right. So now we're to the point where you're 1

i I39501 11 12 hPL 1 setting up the command center with Mr. Gallina in the Unit 1 2 con trol room. 3 A Yes. 4 0 That's at about.11:00, 11:30? 5 A Approximately.11 :00. 6 BY MR. BERNERO: 7 0 Okay. Gallina then placed the call to Unit 1. Is 8 that it? In order to set up this link with Unit 17 9 A Oh, no. 10 0 I mean to se t up the link from Unit I to the .11 regional headquarters? 12 A Yes. 13 0 In King of Prussia. 14 A We maintained an open line. 15 0 So, Gallina literally called the home officc? 16 A Right. 17 0 And now, this i s f rom the shif t supervisor's 18 office, which is separate f rom the control room. Right? 19 A Yes. 20 0 Okay. Now once you got that set up, did Gallina 21 stay on the phone and rely on you to go into the Unit i 22 control room or wherever you had to go to pass information 23 or questions? 24 A Yes. The control room was set up so that you 25 could essentially look f rom the shif t supervisor's office V

1395 01 12 13 FPL i through a large window into the Unit I control room. And I 2 myself acted, at least for the first couple hours, as an 3 intermediary. 4 Mr. Gallina remained on the phones while I basically went 5 back and forth f rom the emergency control station to the 6 phones to relay inf orma tion. 7 O Okay. 8 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 9 0 When you talk about the emergency control station, 10 where was that located? 11 A Unit 1. They had isopleths set up and had walkie 12 talkies to de termine what the off-site doses were, off-site 13 radiation levels were, et cetera. 14 O So that was out in the control room some place? 15 A Yes. 16 0 Or off to the site? 17 A It was directly out in the control room. 18 BY MR. BERNERO: 19 0 On the shif t supervisor's desk? 20 A Basically. 21 0 So it was your understanding, then, that the Met 22 Ed plan had plant emergency control for the damaged plant in 23 Unit 2 and of f-si te emergency control coming out of Unit ! ? 24 A That's basically wha t my understanding was. 25 0 Now in the early briefings or in the first moments ()

f39501 13 14 hPL 1 perhaps an hour that you were there with Met Ed, did they 2 mention to you an early prediction of an off-site dose as 3 high 10 R per hour? 4 A I heard no numbers such as that. 5 0 A prediction of a dose in Goldsboro of 10 R per 6 hour dore rate, I should say? 7 A I can't recall that. There was some numbers going 8 around like that. There was some excessive dose rates in 9 Goldsboro, but I can't recall what the numbers were. 10 0 Well, if "ou heard a prediction of 10 R per hour 11 as a dose rate acrc ss.the river in Goldsboro, would you -- 12 you would consider that a rather dramatic situation, 13 wouldn't you? (3 14 A I would consider that e ssentially a breach of V 15 containment. It was very high. 16 0 So do you think you would be likely to have 17 remembered it if you heard -- you would have reacted 18 vigorously if you heard such a predic tion? 19 A Oh, absolutely. 20 0 Now during the daylight hours, you stayed -- let 21 me go back for a moment. 22 As we understand it from the record of your interviews 23 with the IE investigation, you worked through the daylight 24 hours and then through the night of the 28th and 29th: 25 namely, Wednesday night, Thursday morning. t i l

295 01 14 15 hPL I Now, first of all, I'd like to ask you some questions 2 about what you were doing during the daylight hours. 3 You were working with Chic Callina out of the Unit 1 4 shif t supervisor's office a.nd going to the Unit I control 5 r oom. 6 Did you, during those daylight hours, go to the Unit 2 7 control room or elsewhere in the plant as well? 8 A originally, in our. briefing, I had been requested 9 to determine the s ta tu s o f.the Uni t I auxiliary buildings. 10 And basically wha t the radiation dose rates and air .I l activities were in Unit 1. 12 Bu t f rom w ha t I can recall, Unit I had been essentially 13 sealed off. And there were no access permitted to Unit 1. 14 As a result,.I stayed in the area of Unit I to try and {} 15 determine any information f rom the shif t su pervi sor's 16 emergency sta tion personnel. 17 O But did you not go to Unit 2 on occasion, to the 18 Unit 2 control room? 19 A From what I can recall, Unit 2 had gone on 20 respirators. A pparen tly, there were some high airborne 21 activity and they were having problems that there wasn't 22 enough respirators. 23 And as a result, that was one of the reasons why Neely 24 and Higgins had go..e to Unit 2 because of the shortage of 25 re s pi ra tors. 0 L-) j

0395 01 15 16 hPL i As I can recall, I managed to locate a respirator aad had 2 gone over once or twice to brief Neely as to what the status 3 was in Unit I and if he had any f urther directives for me. 4 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 5 0 Do you recall how many times or f or how long you 6 would have been in the Unit 2 control room? 7 A Just enough to go over anc appraise the other 6 members of the team of what basically was happening in Unit 9 1. And because I had been assigned to Unit I, to return to 10 Unit 1. .11 0 Was it difficult to talk with Neely or Higgins on 12 the telephone f rom Unit i.to Unit 2? 13 A There were some -- we were having trouble with the 14 phones and also trying to talk through a respirator over a [} 15 phone was dif ficult. 16 0 So you were going over to report to them, rather 17 than to get information to bring back, or was it both? 18 A Oh, no. There was a line also finally establis'ied 19 between Unit I and Unit 2 so that we had an open line f rom 20 Unit I to Unit 2 and also, from what I can recall, Uni + 2 21 also established an open line to Region 1. l 22 So from what I can recall, Unit I and Unit 2 had an open l 23 line to either the region or headgearters. 24 I'm not sure. 25 0 Okay. Now. /cu recall going over to the Unit 2 1

)395 01 16 17 shPL I

control room several times during what, the afternoon? 2 A Yes. 3 0 Do you remember whe ther people were in respirators 4 in the Unit 2 control room during any of the occasions in 5 which you were there? 6 A I can recall once going over and people were in 7 respirators. 8 0 Did that mean you had to we ar a respirator on the 9 way over, or did yo' walk through those passageways, and so 10 forth, without one' .11 A No. Bece of Unit l's ventilation, I 12 essentially donned a respirator out in the hall f rom Unit i 13 control room and went over that way. 14 0 But you can also remember going over and then 15 being able to take it off once you got to Uni t 2? i 16 A No, no, no. Just essentially talked through the 17 respirator. You're able to talk.. There's enough space tha t 18 people can hear you. 19 0 I understand that. But my question is whether 20 you remember what the situation was in Unit 2 on the 21 various times when you got there. 22 Were there times when you got there when people were not 23 in respirators? 24 A Yes. I'm not sure if it was the first day or the 25 second day. But people were told that they didn't need tne b6 U

$395 01 17 18 shPL i masks any more. 2 So I can recall going over at least once when they 3 weren't on respirators. 4 0 Now, do you remember on the first afternoon being 5 in the shif t supervisoi's office in Unit 2, meeting 6 Mr. Neely or talking to him in the shif t supervisor's 7 office? 8 A Not + bat I can recall. I probably talked to him 9 somewhere, but I can't recall where. 10 0 Do you remember wha t you were wearing? Were you w aring a hard hat, white hard hat? .11 e 12 A Yes, because we made it a point to bring our hard l ,/ 13 hats on the -- 14 BY MR. BERNERO: p' v 15 Q That's an NRC hard hat? 16 A Yes. 17 0 With symbols on it? 18 A Yes. 19 20 21 22 23 24 I 25 () l l

)395 02 01 19 hpL I BY MR. FRAMPTON: 2 0 What do you recall about being in Unit 2 control 3 room, you know, on the first af ternoon? Is there anything 4 that stands out? 5 What do you recall about what you may have talked about 6 when you were there, what you did or what the situation was? 7 A Basically, the only thing I can remember is that 8 there were quite a few people in the control room. I can't 9 recall exact numbers, but there was quite a f ew in there. 10 0 Do you remember -- you said you remember going .I l over and talking to Mr. Neely a f ew times. Do you remember 12 observing wht was going on or talking to anybody else in the 13 Unit 2 control room obout plant status or things that were {]) happening there during the occasions when you were in the 14 15 control room? 16 A I can recall that the second day, going over and 17 talking to -- when we were off the masks, talking to some of 18 the health physics people, the site health physics people 19 about some problems identified that they might not have been 20 aware of. 21 And to perhaps insti tute some corrective actions. 22 0 Do you remember any conversations of any kind on 23 the first day? 24 A No. 25 0 Do you recall any occasion when you were in the ( ')

9395 02 02 20 hPL 1 Unit 2 control room when there was an emergency systems 2 actuation, things were happening and people were trying to 3 figure out what had ha ppened? 4 Does that ring a bell at all? 5 A No. Basically, the people in the control room 6 were looking more toward the operational end with Jim 7 Higgins, the reac tor inspector, looking at that area. 8 And I primarily tried to look at health physics and 9 things of that nature. 10 0 Do you remember whether Mr. Gallina would have .11 been in the Unit 2 control room at any time during the first 12 day? 13 A I can't recall. 14 0 Do you remember any other inspectors, NRC {~) 15 inspectors who were in the Unit 2 control room during March 16 28th, really the af ternoon of March 28th, other than 17 yourself and Mr. Neely and Mr. Higgins? 18 A Of the 28th? 19 0 Yes. 20 A No. 21 Q We've nad a couple of Met Ed people, utility 22 people, say that they recall one occasion on which the 23 sodium hydroxide building spray came on and there was an NRC 24 inspector who was in the shif t supervisor's office who 25 f ellowed some other people out into the control room to find O

)395 02 03 21 hPL 1 out what was going on. 2 And there was some discussion about this. 3 Does that ring a bell? Would that have been you or do 4 you recall that happening with somebody else who was there? 5 A I can recall someone mentioning or being told at a 6 later date that they had sodium hydroxide sprayed. But to 7 the best of my recollection, no one actually came up and 8 told me, hey, we just had sodium hydroxide go on. 9 O Are you familiar with that system? Do you know 10 what it's designed to do, how it triggers, and so forth? .11 A Yes. 12 Q Do you recall the first day being in the control 13 room when there was some discussion about the f act that taht 14 had actuated, they were trying to figure out why. Aside f rom 15 whether someone came up and said something to you, do you 16 remember something about that in your presence or tha t you 17 overheard? 18 A Not that I can recall the first, second, or third 19 day. I can recall that perhaps at a later time someone 20 mentioning it. But not the first several days. 21 0 Do ycu remember either while you were in the Unit 22 2 control room or in Unit I on the first day, learning that 23 they had had this pressure spike, pressure excursion 24 indicated on the building pressure instrument? 25 Is that something that you can remember? l

p3950204 22 hPL 1 A Not toe first couple days. As I say, I had been 2 there for approximately two weeks af ter, a week, two weeks 3 af ter the incident. So I might have learned about this at a 4 later date. 5 And I associated that.with the sprays coming on. But 6 during the time that I was in the control room, I don't 7 recall anyone mentioning a pre ssure spike. 8 0 Okay. That's something that people generally, it 9 appears, became aware of on Friday, March 30, and put this 10 together with the hydrogen explosion. .11 But it appears that people in the control room observed 12 it on Wednesday and the question is who knew about it or 13 overheard discussions about what other people were saying 14 about it? (')s \\_ 15 Do you remember anything about either the spray or the lo pre ssure spike being mentioned, or your overhearing it on 17 Wednesday, when you happened to be passing through the Unit 18 2 control room? 19 A Not on Wednesday. 20 0 Other than Mr. Higgins and Mr. Neely, do you know 21 of anybody else f rom the NRC who might have been in the 22 control room or overheard something or learned something on 23 Wednesday in the Unit 2 control room about that subject? 24 Are there any other po ssibilities, in other words? 25 A The only other inspector that I can recall being U

$395 02 05 23 hPL I in Unit 2 is -- might have been Walt Baunack, but I'm not 2 sure. I can recall seeing his face in there, but I'm not 3 sure what day. 4 And it may have been late Wednesday or it might have been 5 Thursday. 6 0 I think he was there late Wednesday. 7 BY MR. BERNERO: 8 0 Yes. Our record indicates that he was there late 9 in the af ternoon. The time of interest is in mid-af ternoon, 10 early afternoon, 2:00, thereabouts. 11 Let me ask a speculative question. You have experience 12 as a radiation specialist at a variety of power plants and 13 f uels f abrication f acility in North Carolina and a graduate 14 school facility. 15 Would you consider it noteworthy if you were told that 16 the reactor building spray system had gone on, noteworthy to 17 your own work as a radiation specialist? 18 A bell, that, and also, I've got a nuclear 19 engineeria a background with some operation experience. And 20 that woula De noteworthy, yes. 21 0 So, you f eel that you would react to such 22 information? 23 A Oh, yes. Absolutely. 24 0 Okay. Now, tha t day, we understand about 8:00 25 p.m. of that day, sometime in the evening -- it's not vital OO i

-)395 02 06 24 hPL. I whether it's 82 00 exac tly -- that there was some sort of an 2 NRC shif t change where they didn't let you go to bed. They 3 just sent you off-site to work for the of f-si te surveys. 4 Is that correct? 5 A From what I can recall, approximately 6:00, 7:00 6 tha t Wednesday, I lef t the site f rom what I can recall, to 7 help a fellow by the name of Dick Kottan, one of our 8 emergency planning people or independent measurements 9 people, attempt to do some off-site measurements with our 10 mobile laboratory. .11 0 You wo'Gd have lef t when the van arrived, in other 12 words, from Mi.11 stone? 13 A No. (^T 14 0 or did you leave before he got there? U 15 A No. I left after he got there because there was a 16 time that I was operating the van, a ssisting in the 17 operation of the van. 18 It was later, approximately 8:00, 9200 tha t e ssentially, 19 our acting chief or chief at that time, Phil Stohr, 20 requested us to actually take the mobile lab out and do 21 surveys, our own surveys in various areas. 22 0 Okay. Let me clarify that, please. You were in 23 the Unit I and mobile lab, drive and parked near the 24 observation center on the mainland? 25 A Right. s_-

1395 02 07 25 hPL 1 0 You went over to the parking lot of the 2 observation center and worked in the van for a time? 3 A Yes. 4 0 And then, af ter some periof of operations there, 5 Phil Stohr asked you to take the van, physically take the 6 whole van and drive it? 7 A Yes, the reason being because of the amount of 6 equipment it had, such as the computer and the jelly systems 9 to do exact measurements. 10 We could essentially get on-the-stop identification Ji wherever we were at. 12 0 So you would have gone to the off-site survey with 13 that vehicle? /N 14 A Yes. \\_) 15 O But there were mechanical problems with that 16 vehicle? 17 A We tried to take it, but because they had come in 18 at such a -- apparently, a hurried pace f rom Millstone or 19 wherever, one of the tires was completely flat, or 20 something, and the other one was bald. 21 And we couldn't chance it taking the van out, taking it 22 away f rom the site and hE ving it break down. 23 0 So, you left the van there and went out in a Met 24 Ed car, did you not? 25 A Yes. I reported to Phil Stohr what our problem s

f D395 02 08 26 1 was ared he suggested that I get with some Met Ed people. (rghPL ) 2 The reason being is that we wanted to go out and basically 3 see how the licensee was doing the off-site surveys. 4 And there had been some reports and some erroneous 5 readings, and what have you. And they wanted someone out 6 there with the people to see what they were doing. 7 So Phil Stohr suggested I go out with some of the survey 8 teams to see how they draw their samples and see how they 9 take their readings and what have you. 10 0 Did you feel that there was a deficiency in the .11 NRC vehicles at the site? You have the van obviously 12 deficient. There was still a station wagon there and a 13 couple of automobiles. 14 A Our biggest deficiency is we had A/C equipment. (} 15 And there was no way that we could run our equipment 16 remotely. We didn't have an A/C converter or D/C 17 converter. And we didn't have, from what I can recall, we 18 didn't have a portable generator. 19 0 We understood that you tried to use a Met Ed 20 converter, D/C, A/C converter. 21 A I don't understand it, but apparently, their unit 22 couldn't handle the load that -- we had new equipment, 23 Radeco-type air samplers that we used. And their 24 converter couldn't handle the load that the unit draws. 25 okay, that -- 4

)395 02 09 27 hPL I BY MR. FRAMPTON: 2 0 Maybe you can tell us a little bit about what your 3 impre ssion was of the situation in the Unit 2 control room 4 during the times that you were in there. You said there 5 were a lot of people. 6 Would you say that it was fairly well organized or was it 7 your impression that things were pretty confused? 8 A My impression was that it was somewhat hectic. 9 But as far as not being organized, I can't really say. 10 There appeared to be a line of communication, line of 11 organization in terms of operational aspects. 12 But one of the problems I noted was the -- the site 13 health physics supervisor, RPM, appeared to be involved in ('] 14 the operational aspects of the plant and was not devoting v 15 enough tinie to the nitty gri tty, so to speak. 16 BY MR. BERNERO: 17 0 Keeping good health physics practices? 18 A .Right. And basically, putting that excessive 19 workload on the foreman, the job foreman. 20 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 21 0 Were Mr. Higgins or Mr. Neely having any problems 22 getting access to any inf ormation that they needed or wanted 23 there as.far as you observed, or they told you? 24 A Not that I can recall. I certainly didn't have 25 any problems in terms of gathering information. l /T U

-)395 02 10 28 hPL 1 I can recall being told by one individual that they were 2 very busy with the operation of the plant. And I recall 3 asking someone else the question. 4 But overall, in general, I didn't have any problems with 5 inf orma tion-ga the ring. 6 0 Your access to panels wasn't restricted in any way 7 except insofar as you weren/t supposed to step on other 8 people's toe s? 9 A We.11, in terms of Unit 2, I was not involved in 10 access to panels and this and that. .I l If the need be, and if I did go to look at the radiation 12 monitors, I would have asked the control room o pera tor or 13 supervisor's permission to look at the instrumentation 14 before I went back. {} 15 0 Do you recall doing that, in f act, on any 16 o cca sion, the first day, let's say? 17 A Maybe once, but I can't be certain of that. Just 18 to get an overall picture of what was happening. 19 BY MR. BERNERO: 20 0 Would you restrict that to radiation monitors, 21 that you would look at the radiation control panel? 22 A

Yes, j

23 0 As against -- i 24 A I was basically there to look at the radiation, j 25 the overall radiation problems at the plant. And I would r~s U

0395 02 Ji 29 hPL I also perhaps take a look at the meteorology data, the wind 2 speed and direction and such and such. 3 BY MR. FRAMPTON: 4 0 Did you have the impression on the af ternoon of 5 March 28th that the plant was unstable? I mean that they 6 were trying to reassert control over the situation or did 7 you not think it was quite that serious at that point from 8 what you were told or heard or sensed from being in the 9 control room of either unit? 10 A The only problem I can recall is the problem with .11 the steam generators and a bubble.in perhaps one of the 12 loops. 13 That's the only thing that I can recall. And I'm not sure 14 if that was the first day. {) 15 0 Well, I'm not sure then what your sense of the 16 situation was. Was your sense of the situation insof ar as 17 you observed other people, people f rom the utility reacting 18 to it, that it was not basically an unstable situation? 19 A ch, no. The overall impression that I got is that 20 they were trying ta control the plant and they were having 21 difficulty in terms of cooling the reactor down in terms of 22 stabilizing the situation. 23 But as f ar as acting calmly, like there was nothing out 24 of order, or what have you, I didn't get that impre ssion. 25 They seemed justly concerned about the problems. (,, (_/ 1

)395 02 12 30 hPL I BY MR. BERNERO: 2 0 One loose end. When you lef t the Unit I shift 3 supervisor's office to go out and start working with Kottan 4 in the van there, who was lef t there in the Unit 1 office? 5 A We had -- f rom what I can recall, the initial team 6 that went out was myself and four other people in the first 7 car. 8 And later on, approximately an hour, maybe two hn:rs Y behind us, several other inspectors came. And I can recall 10 Ray Smith, investigations specialist f rom Region 1, coming .11 in. And I'm not sure if he was placed in charge of the 12 command center in terms of transmitting information or not. f 13 But it was either Chic Gallina or Ray Smith at the center ggf 14 in the Unit I shif t supervisor's office when I lef t. 15 There was always someone on the phone. 16 MR. BERNERO: That's it. Any other questions? 17 Well, forget the magic words for ending. 18 MR. FRAMPTON: Thank you very much. We appreciate 19 your time and your. cooperation. Okay 20 (Whereu pon, a t 3: 45 p.m., the deposition 21 adjourned. ) 22 23 24 25 <}}

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