ML19321A831

Corrected Transcript of 800708 Prehearing Conference in Harrisburg,Pa.Pp 86-119

ML19321A831
Person / Time
Site:	Crane
Issue date:	07/08/1980
From:	Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel
To:
References
NUDOCS 8007240254
Download: ML19321A831 (36)

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86 1

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2

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3 In the Matter ofs s

s Docket No. 50-320-OLP 4

THPEE MILE ISLAND UNIT II s

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Courtroom No. 1 Public Utilities Commission 7

Commonwealth Ave. C North St.

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 8

Tuesday, July 8, 1960 9

The above-entitled matter met for prehearing 10 conference at 9:05 a.m.

11 BEFORE:

JOHN WOLE, BOARD CHAIRMAN 12 l

OSCAR H.

PARIS, Ph.D.,

BOARD MEMBEF f

13 (sg s

FREDEhICK J.

SHON, BOARD KEMBER 14 APPEARANCES:

no JUDITH JOHNSRUD, Ph.D.

16 On behalf of ECNP l

17 STEPHEN SHOLLY On behalf of himself STEPHEN C.

GOLDBERG, Esq.

19 LAWRENCE CHANDLER On behalf of the Nuclear Regula tory Commission 20 KARIN CARTER, Esq.

21 ROBERT ADLER, Esq.

On behalf of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 22 l

GEORGE S.

TROWBhIDGE, Esq.

23 DEBBIE BERNSTEIN

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Shaw, Pittman, Potts & Trowbridge

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24 On behal.# of Metropolitan Edison Company 25 O

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

87

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1 aaaCEEa1E2S 2

CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Good morning, ladies and

()

3 gentlemen.

4 We will begin the morning session by asking that 5

appearances be stated.

We will begin with you, Mr. Shelly, 6

please.

7 MR. SHOLLY:

Stephen Sholly, pro se/

8 MS. CARTER:

Karin Carter, Assistant Attorney 9

General, representing the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

10 With me is Mr. Robert Adler.

11 MR. GOLDBERGa Ftephen C.

Goldberg, representing 12 the NRC staff.

Along with me at counsel's table is vr.

13 Lawrence Chandler.

14 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

George S. Trowbridge, 15 representing the licensee.

On my right is Ms. Debbie 16 Bernstein from my office.

17 MR. WOLFa I have a couple of pteliminary 18 matters.

Can we get an expression as to when the work that 19 is to be done in connection with the consolidation of 20 contentions and the modifying of them, if that is possible, 21 will be completed and submitted to the Board?

22 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Mr. Chairman, we are meeting with 23 all the intervenors in the tech spec aspect of this hea ring A'u,)

24 on Friday of this week.

We will report back the results of 25 th at meeting.

I would suggest that we enlarge our neeting ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

f 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

88 3

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1 to include our recommendations on time tables for any 2

further hearings, assuming that we don't settle all the

()

3 contentions on Friday.

4 CHAIRMAN WOLFS You will submit a piece of paper?

5 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

We will submit a paper stating 6

where agreements have been reached, and a suggestion as to 7

time table for any remaining hearing.

8 CHAIRMAN WOLFS In that connection I have a 9

statement from Mr. Lochstet regarding problem dates that he 10 has.

I will give it to you, and if we can work around the 11 dates that he has indicated as a problem I would like to do 12 that.

13 MR. TROWBRIDGEs Mr. Lochstet aill be our Friday

(

1-4 session.

15 CHAIRMAN WOLFS He will, then I will not have to 16 give this to you.

I'7 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

It is Dr. Lochstet, by the way, I 18 was informed yesterday.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLFS Ms. Carter, do you have copies of 20 that?

21 MS. CARTER:

We have not yet received Mr. Sho11y's 22 contentions.

23 MP. SHOLLY:

They will be getting them today.

\\-

24 CHAIRMAN WOLFS Very well.

25 Does any counsel or pro se have any preliminary ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE. S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345 j

89 4

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1 matter that they would like to take up?

2 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Mr. Chairman, I have one piece of

-( )

3 logistics.

These two exhibits, la and 1b, which we intend 4

to introduca, we ran out of the energy or the ability to 5

count at about midnight on Thursday, so that I do not have 6

enough copies to give the three exhibits to the reporter.

I 7

do have one extra.

8 I am wondering, since the Board Members are all in 9

Washington, whether two of the Board copies could be added 10 to my copy as exhibits.

This could be done at the end of 11 the hearing because we may have some references to it.

12 CHAIRMAN WOLFS I think that we are ready to 13 proceed on the matter of the venting problem.

The Board is

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14-amenable to proceeding in any order that the parties want to 15 proceed in, whatever will facilitate the furnishing of the 16 information.

I'7 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

I might start simply by 18 explaining our plan of action, so the others can do the 19 same.

Then the Board can decide what order to follow.

20 We are prepared to go through Mr. Sholly's latest 21 motion, and discuss in order the six grour.ds for the 22 motion.

However, when we get past the first three, which 23 will be largely my talking and my referring to documents O' '

24 that the Board already has, I would like to put on a live 25 witness to describe the venting program.

He is here, Yr.

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345

1 l

90 5

1 Morrell.

Then, we will proceed to a brief discussion of 2

grounds 4,

5, and 6.

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3 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Mr. Goldberg.

4 MR. GOLDBERG Yes, Mr. Chairman.

I believe the 5

staff position on the several requests before this Board are 6

already contained in filings we have made before this Board 7

on July 3rd and July 7th.

We will rest on those pleadings, 8

and reserve any additional argument that may be necessary 9

until Mr. Trowbridge has completed his direct presentation.

10 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

At the end of whatever 11 presentation is made, I am going to ask counsel to make 12 whatever arguments they wish to make.

13 MR. GOLDBERG:

Thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Ms. Carter, do you have any 15 comments?

16 MS. CARTER:

No, we do not.

17 CHAIRMAN WOLF Mr. Sholly, I assume that we 18 should have the parties, that is, Commonwealth Edison and 19 staff, give their position first, and then have you come 20 back and state your position, and make whatever argument you 21 care to make at th a t time.

22 MR. SHOLLY:

I think that it might be more 23 efficient if I could address the pa rties briefly.

('-)

24 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

First?

25 MR. SHOLLY Yes, sir.

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(_/

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554 2345

6 1

CHAIRMAN WOLF You may do th a t.

Do you want to 2

start it off; is that what you would like to do?

()

3 MR. SHOLLY.

It is difficult to say what will 4

happen after, it will depend largely on the Board and on th e 5

other parties.

6 I have had an opportunity last evening, for the 7

first time, to read the various pleadings that were placed 8

before the District Court in Washington, and the Appeals 9

Court.

I have had a chance to review the staf f's brief, and

/

10 also the licensee's brief.

Looking at the way things have 11 developed thus far, it would be difficult for me tc assess 12 my chances of convincing the Board that the fast purging 13

()

system should be stopped.

\\/

14 Regardless of that, however, I am of the opinion 15 that if the Board does in fact rule that way, it will be 16 immediately appealed to the Appeals Board, and if 1'7 unsuccessful there, the licensee will take it further to the 18 Co mm ission, who I am sure will rule against the p o si tio n 19 that I proposed, that the fast purge should be halted.

20 It would seem to me that a delay in the fast purge 21 of, perhaps, a day or two, or maybe three, would be the best 22 that I could hope to accomplish.

At this point, while I ao 23 essentially opposed to the venting, ad I not personally O-24 feel that it is or has been necessary, if that is the 25 declared ;?sition of the Commission, which I think it is, I O

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE,5.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554-2345

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()

1 do not care to delay that.

2 I disagree wi th the basis for the venting having

(~'t 3

started.

I think there was a gross mistake made in assuming

\\/

4 th a t psychological stress would be minimized by the 5

venting.

I think that that is completely in error.

6 However, since the venting has started, and it is clearly 7

not going to be stopped either by the Commission, and as 8

near as I can tell by the courts, it would seem to me that 9

given the situation we have now, the best thing to do would i

10 be to go ahead and complete the venting as rapidly as 11 possible.

Once it is started, the stress that was created 1

12 by the start of the venting is there.

It is real, it exists 13 now.

The best way to minimize it is to get it over with.

14 I disagree with the venting, as I said before.

I 15 think that it is totally unnecessary.

However, given this 16 current situation, the way things are developing, the past l'7 history of the Commission on this issue and the courts', I 18 do not feel that it would be useful of anybody's time or 19 '

energy at this point to go forward with this motion.

20 I had briefly discussed this with Mr. Trowbridge 21 and with Mr. Chandler, and they both agreed with my 22 assessment, which I suspected that they would.

23 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Are yo u sa ying th a t you want to n

24 formally withdr aw the complaint?

25 MR. SHOLLY:

I will do thata

.f that wculd please ba ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

93 8

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I the Board.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFS You know, Mr. Sholly, the Board

{J 3

has no feeling in this matter.

We are here to hear it and 4

come up with a decision that is based on whatever evidence 5

is submitted.

6 MR. SHOLLY:

Yes, sir.

7 CHAIRMAN WOLFS We do not want our feelin ; in the 8

matter to be a factor.

I have no feeling personally.

9 How are you proposing that you would like to 10 appeal the matter to the Appeals Board?

11 MR. SHOLLY4 No, sir.

I think that that would be 12 a futile gesture in my estimation because it would certainly 13 go to the Commission ultimately, and I am convinced that the O

1-4 Commission would rule that things should proceed as 15 planned.

16 I think that it would simply be more efficient to 1'7 simply withdraw the motion, and that is what I am proposing 18 to do.

19 I regret any feelings that I may have wasted 20 witnesses' time, and so forth.

However, having not had an 21 opportunity to reso most of the filings until last night, I 22 was not in a position, really, to make this assessment until 23 sometime late last night.

I regret any inconvenience that 24 this may have caused to the parties.

25 CHAIRMAN WOLF It is your right to bring the It ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554-2345

94 9

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1 motion and the appeal.

There is no problem with that.

2 MR. SHOLLY:

I formally withdraw the motion at

()

3 this point.

4 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Very well.

5 Dr. Johnsrud, will you state your appearance for 6

the record?

7 DR. JOHNSHUDs Yes.

My name is Dr. Judith 8

Johnsrud.

I apologize for being late.

I have hed to drive 9

nearly 100 miles to get here this morning for the 10 information that the purpose of today's hearing will 11 evidently not go forward, which I regret, too.

12 I do want, however, to place on the record ECNP 's 13 concurrence with Mr. Sholly's views on venting, and express 14 our regret that we share his belief that any attempts to 15 prevent the venting at this stage will be futile, and not 16 worth tha cost in time and effort for anyone.

We do also 1'7 oppose the continuation of the venting given the fact that 18 other mechanisms for control of the krypton are available.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLF At chis point, Ms. Carter, do you 20 have any position regarding the withdrawal of the motion?

21 MS. CARTER:

F, I have a brief moment to confer 22 with my colleagues.

23 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Certainly 24 MS. CARTER:

I havo just a brief two or three 25 sentences.

mk)

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554-2345

95-10

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1 We concur with Mr. Sho11y's assessment of the 2

futility of proceeding further with his motion, and

({

3 therefore approve of his withdrawal of the motion.

But we 4

certainly have at all times respected his right to bring 5

that motion, and we commend now and have commended him 6

privately in the past for his performance in these and other 7

proceeaings.

l 8

We think that he has always acted in a manner to 9

conserve time and effort of other parties, and to bring 10 matters to the Board which were not frivolous.

11 We would state once again for the record what we 12 have stated publicly in other forums.

We concurred in the 13 venting decision by the NRC, and we agree with the NRC and g-)

v 1<4 others that the venting should continue to proceed, and we 15 are sure tha t it will.

16 CHAIRMAN WOLE:

In light of the withdrawal of the 17 motion, I don 't see any reason wh y we should go through the 18 analysis of the briefs, and the affidavits and materials 19 that have been submitted, unless the parties want to.

20 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

I have no ir. teres t ta wastina the 21 Board's time or anybody else's time.

22 CHAIRMAN:

What about staff?

23 MR. CHANDLER:

We would agree, Mr. Chairman.

O

'/

24 I would like to note that although the staff has 25 taken a position contrary to the views, both ac a matter of O

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE,3.W.. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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1 law and fact, that are raised by Mr. Sholly, under no 2

circumstances should it be understood that we consider his

()

3 efforts and his claims to be frivolous, or a burden, or 4

inconvenience upon the staff.

5 We think that he has very valid and legitimate 6

concern, and we trust he appreciates the views and 7

considerations that the staff of the Commission have given 8

to this matter.

9 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

As we move along, then, I would 10 still like to have a statement from anyone who can make it 11 regarding the newspaper article that we have from the New 12 York Times of July 4th, which is headed, " Scientists fear l

13 release of krypton may have serious weather effects."

1-4 I would like the staff to comment on that, or 15 present whatever information they have on

• .t, and also the 18 representative of the licensee.

17 MR. CHANDLER 4 Mr. Chairman, the staff would have 18 available Mr. Frank Congel who can make a statement 19 regarding the article.

20 CHAIRMAN WOLF Could you spell your name, please?

21 MR. CONGEL:

Yes, it is C-o -a -g-e-1.

22 CHAIRMAN WOLF Will you first start off by giving 23 us your qualifications and background?

q 24 MR. CONGEL:

Yes, sir.

I am the Leader of the 25 Radiological Impact Section in the Office of Nuclear Reactor

(

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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()

1 Regulation.

As part of my duties I do both dose and 2

population calculations associated with the release of

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nuclides to the environment.

My group also evaluates the

(_/

4 health and risk impacts associated with those releases.

5 In the course of our duties, we do attempt to keep 6

track and current with some studies such as the one that is 7

referred to in the New York Times article.

I think the 8

important point to be made is the fact that we were aware of 9

this study when it was published several years ago.

I 10 believe that it was published in 1976.

11 I have just had a chance to quickly glance at the 12 article.

It did draw attention to the fact that there is a 13 possibility of geometic, in terms of overall weather O

14 effects, associated or possible with substantial releases of 15 Krypton -85 into the atmosphere.

16 Of course this was taken into consideration by EPA 17 in its proposals for ultimately limiting the Krypton-85 18 releases.

19 CEAIRMAN WOLF:

How do you know that EPA took that 20 position?

21 ER. CONGEL:

We were participants in their fuel 22 cycle standards hearing before they prom ulga ted the uranium 23 cycle standard, which is 40 CFR Part 190.

40 CFR Part 190

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24 includes the individual dose limitations and proposals to l

25 limit ultimtately the release of Krypton-85 into the l

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atmosphere.

2 During those proceedings this fact, it is my

()

3 understanding, was brought up, and one of the things that 4

were considered and recognized as a potential problem i?

5 Krypton-85 continued to be released into the atmosphere 6

without any control systems being in the design built or 7

used.

8 CHAIRMAN WOLF What control systems are 9

contemplated?

10 MR. CONGEls The control system, I am not in 11 detail familiar with.

The standard regarding the release of 12 Krypton-85 into the atmosphere is not now in effect, and is

,r 13 proposed to go into effect, I believe, in 1992 or 1983.

(>)

144 At the time the uranium fuel cycle was 15 promulgated, it was recognized that control systems were not 16 available on a general basis, or they were pretty much on a 17 feasibility stage of investigation.

We felt that by 1982 or 18 1983, I am not sure what year, the Krypton 6 5 releases 19 primarily from fuel reprocessing would have to be controlled 20 so that they would release -- I am trying to recall the 21 number -- so many thousands of curies per gygowatt year of 22 electric generating capacity that the fuel cycle plant was 23 handling.

It was 50,000 curies per gygowatt year of O

24 electric.

25 Because of the fact that the fuel processing, or

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fuel reprocessing industry has not considered this as an 2

option right at this moment.

O 3

ca^1a"^" wote:

"o-te11== the ouat or =eteeses 4

in connection with this plant, TMI-II; what is the 5

relationship between that and what the studies show to be a 6

safe amount?

7 MR. CONGEL:

I think the way to handle it is, the 8

present worldwide inventory of Krypton-85 associated with 9

fuel reprocessing activities in other parts of the world, as 10 well as the Krypton 85 that is in the atmosphere as a result

)

11 of weapons testing is on the order of 300 million curies.

12 The addition of 50,000 curies from the Three Mile Island 13 facility is a very small fraction of the total world 14 inventory.

15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0

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1 CHAIRMAN WOLFS Are you saying that the world 2

inventory is not a threat at this time, the 300 million?

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MR. CONGELs Based on my understanding, the

-V 4

potential threat would come if the releases associated with 5

the uranium fuel cycle were to continue unabated without any 6

potential controls.

There is a possibility of some future 7

effects.

There is an early warning associated with this 8

particular article that has to be considered when one is 9

looking at the overall impact of the operation of the 10 uranium fuel cycle.

i 11 CHAIRMAN WOLF Is there any agreement with 12 foreign nations regarding the release?

13 MR. CONGELs I don't know.

1<4 CHAIRMAN WOLF Does the Commission know?

15 MR. GOLDBERG Mr. Chairman, Mr. John Collins of 16 the staff has indicated his preparedness to answer the 17 Board's question.

He is the Deputy Director of the Three 18 Mile Island Program Support Staff.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLF Thank you.

20 MR. COLLINSs Mr. Chairman, I am senior NRC man on 21 the site.

With regard to the worldwide situation, there are 22 two committees presently developing criteria.

23 One is established by IAEA looking at the total n'

N-24 amount of krypton being released from fuel in processing 25 plants and nuclear power plants worldwide with the exception

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It has been very difficult to get any s

2 information f rom th em.

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3 The other organiza tion is OECD, the Office of 4

Economic Community Development, which is made of the Western 5

and European communities.

6 Both of those groups at the present time have 7

studies underway.

I happen to be on both committees.

They 8

will come out and hopefully adopt some type of standards 9

similar to EPA standards.

10 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Thank you.

11 Would you continue now, Mr. Congel.

12 MR. CONGEL:

Yes, sir.

The only thing that I 13 wanted to conclude is based on the existing world inventory 7-()3 14 and the facts that the studies indicate a long-term 15 consideration of this phenomena is in order.

Fifty thousand 16 additional curies associated with the TMI purge would have 17 no effect and would not be related or ccald possible 18 seriously increase the risk associated with this poten tial 19 effect at all.

20 CHAIRMAN WOLF Thank you, Mr. Congel.

21 MR. GOLDBERGs Mr. Chairman, I would just like to 22 note for the record that the statement of Dr. Congel's 23 professional qualifications accompanied the staff's July 7th 24 response to Mr. Sholly's motion in this matter.

25 CHAIRMAN WOLFS Thank you.

4 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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1 Are there any comments on the statements that have 2

been made?

()

3 Dr. Johnsrud.

4 DR. JOHNSRUDs I would only comment,

.M r. Chairman, 5

that it seems to me that the 3oard would be well advised to 6

have the recommendations, the assistance of qualified 7

research meteorologists in regard to this ma tter.

Training 8

in radiation health may or may not involve sufficient 9

knowledge of the issues that are clearly at stake with 10 respect to this articia.

11 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Neither ECNP nor Dr. Johnsrud is 12 a participate in the venting program.

I don't think the 13 suggestions a re in order.

[}

14 DR. JOHN 5RUDs I believe that the Chairman asked 15 for comments from any of the parties here.

16 Ma. TROWBRIDGE:

You are not a party to the s

i 17 venting.

j 18 DR. JOHNSRUDs Here.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Very well.

Do you have anything 20 further, Mr. Goldberg?

21 MR. GOLDBERG:

No, Mr. Chairman.

I would just 22 like to say that Dr. Congel tried as best as he can to i

23 respond to the inquiry tha t the Boa rd made d uring the recess V

24 yesterday and we tried to oblige the Board by Dr. Congel's 25 rema rks.

We do not feel that any further evidentiary O

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1 investigation into these matters is either warranted or 2

appropriate given the apparent determination of the O

3 proceeding regarding the June order.

(_/

4 CHAIRMAN WOLF Well, as we said before, we 5

appreciate Dr. Congel's statement.

I think it was helpful.

6 Do you have anything that you wish to offer in 7

connection with this, Mr. Trowbridge?

8 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

I think Dr. Johnsrud was not here 9

when we started the proceeding and is unaware that we have 10 discussed already the fact tha t we are meeting Friday in an 11 effort to see what can be done about agreement on 12 contentions.

Also we suggested that following ' hat meeting, 13 assuming we don't agree in all of the contentions, that we

(~)g 14 would get word to the Board in writing as to what agreements 15 had been reached and what was proposed in the way of further 16 schedule.

17 DR. JOHNSRUDs I understand then that this is the 18 agreement that was reached yesterday afternoon amonc the 19 parties?

20 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Right.

21 CHAIRMAN WOLF:

Well, at this time then I am goinc 22 to ask the members of the Board, Mr. Shon and Dr. Paris to 23 ask some questions.

b 24 MR. SHON:

We are still curious about a couple of 25 things that have happened in connection with the ventina.

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1 One is the behavior of the pa rticulate monitor.

2 Is there anyone here that can tell us two things about the

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3 difficulty that apparently was experienced with the 4

particulate monitor early on last Saturday or so?

5 I want to know two thingst one, what went wrong; 6

and, two, what was done to fix it.

7 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Mr. Michael Morrel who is the 8

project engineer for the venting program, a Metropolitan 9

Edison employee, is here and would have been our witness 10 this morning, is prepared to talk.

Why don't I have him 11 stand up and answer the Board's questions.

12 Why don't you state your full name and your 13 position and give a brief description of your qualifications 14 first.

15 MR. MORRELL:

My name is Mike Morrell.

I have a 16 BS from the U. S. Navel Academy, an MBA from Fairleigh 17 Dickinson University and am a professional engineer in the 18 State of Pennsylvania.

I am the project manager associated 19 with reactor purge at Three Mile Island.

20 I was present in the control room on Saturday, i

21 June 28th, when we started the venting.

Your questions are i

22 about alarms that we saw on particulate monitors when we 23 starting the venting process.

O

\\J 24 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

Was that your question, what 25 happened this morning at 3:45 a.m.,

or am I wrong?

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1 MR. SHON:

We had seen in the newspapers that when 2

the venting first started there were alarms on the

()

3 particulate monitor that something was going to clear the 4

alarms and that the monitor was thereafter in some manner 5

modified to make sure this would not happen again.

6 It was also said in the newspapers that it was 7

because the monitor was detecting krypton and not 8

particulate, and I can understand that that might well 9

happen with a moving paper monitor, but we want on the 10 record an explanation of what went wrong and what was goinc 11 to fix it.

12 MR. MORRELL When we began the venting on June 13 28th at 8 a.m.

we experienced a high particulate alarm on

(~)

U 144 the hydrogen control. system radiation monitor and also on 15 the monitor which is the final stack monitor that was on 16 both alarms on both monitors.

17 The alarm war aut due to particulate.

It was due 18 to the counters actually seeing the bet s activity from the 19 krypton 85 which was being passed through the onitors.

20 uhen we received the alarm, which was about three l

21 to four minutes after starting th e venting, we immediately 22 shut down the venting in accordance with the procedure and 23 then removed the filter paper in both monitors to countdown i\\J 24 for particulate activity.

That counting showed no 25 detectable particulate activity.

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ALDERSON PEPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. O.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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1 After that we did several things prior to starting

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2 back up in a test venting mode.

We instituted a fifteen

()

3 minute sampling program on a bypass filter which we 4

installed on the stack monitor.

By that I mean we installed 5

a pump which bypasses the normal particulate monitor and 6

removed the air from the stack to put the particulates on a 7

filter paper.

We removed that paper and counted it every 8

fifteen minutes se that it was almost continuous.

9 We also began the installation of a sodium iodide 10 crystal hooked up to a multichannel analyzer which would 11 then be able to be discriminative to pick up only the gamma 12 radiation. associated with the particulates in question.

13 We then also made a computer program modification 14 after talking with the manufacturer of the stack rsnitor, 15 Eberline Company.

We talked to them and they indicated 16 there was a possibility of adjusting the weed-out of th e 17 particulate channel to subtract the krypton reading.

So on 18 their advice and using their recommenda tions we made that 19 adjustment in the program.

We did now, however, use that j

20 particulate channel in the normal stack monitor as the i

21 particular monitor when we started up.

We were simply 1

22 trying to see how it would work with this modification 23 made.

(')

24 So when we started back up our particulate 25 monitoring system was a 15-minute sampling accounting of the

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stack monitor filter.

Shortly thereafter we put on line the 2

multichannel analyzer which then became out real-time

()

3 particulate radiation monitor.

4 DR. PARIS:

Mr. Morrell, how did the particulate 5

monitor discriminate between the radiation from krypton and 6

particulate radiation in this particular matter?

7 HR. MORRELL Are you asking about the original 8

particulate monitor or the second one that we installed ?

9 DR. PARISs Well, the modification that Eberline 10 suggested.

11 HR. MORRELL:

Well, the modification that Eberline 12 suggested did not really discriminate.

The par ticula te 13 monitor in the Eberline system is a beta assimilation 14 detector.

A beta assimilation detector is then calibrated 15 to be sensitive to the betas from strontium 90.

Krypton is 16 also a beta emitter.

So the betas from the krypton made 17 that high alarm condition occur.

18 The modification that Eberline proposed was simply 19 subtracting the krypton reading in the computer did not 20 really discriminate against the krypton.

So it was a 21 programming change rather than a discrimination of the l

22 krypton betas.

23 DR. PARIS:

So in effect it was seeing the same

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24 thing that we have seen before but it was being subtracted l

25 from your read-out and you unplugged the alarm, or something l

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like that?

2 MR. MORRELLs We did not unplug an alarm, but in

()

3 the same monitor we have a krypton channel.

e have a 4

krypton channel and a particulate channel.

So if you take 5

the krypton channel reading and subtract it from the 6

particulate channel reading then wha t is lef t should be only 7

particulate and that was the modification we made.

We did 8

it in accordance with Eberline.

9 MR. SHON:

That is probably true, Mr. Morrell, but 10 I think that the constants that you have to use to m ultiply 11 by to get a ratio between the krypton count and particulate 12 con tamin a ted by krypton count would be something that would 13 take a little doing.

It is not immediately obvious that 14 either of these are absolute counters or anything like 15 that.

What I am saying is that I don 't think I quite trust 16 that system.

Evidently you didn't either.

17 MR. MORRELL4 We did not trust it.

Eberline 18 recommended we make the change and we did.

We were not 19 certain if the constant you should use is a ratio of one; in 20 other words, do you subtract out one times the krypton 21 reading or some fraction times the krypton reading.

22 We subsequently asked Eberline to do their lab 23 calibration to try to better determine the fraction we

~

24 should use.

They did that and we changed the fraction 3

subsequently.

We still have not been satisfied with it and ALJ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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that is why we have gone to a different particulate detector.

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3 MR. SHON:

It looks as if that would be exactly 4

the difficulty you would have.

I take it that krypton is 5

for some reason simply adhering to the paper and carrying 6

through?

7 MR. MORRELL:

It may be adhering to the paper or 8

it may just be the f act tha t it is such a high concentration 9

stream going through the monitor.

Our opinion is that the 10 stream going through is of such concentration that the betas 11 from the stream passing through are the cause of the alarm 12 rather than krypton collecting on the paper.

13 MR. SHON:

The structure of the monitor is such 14 that the gas is actually passed near the scintillation 15 crystal?

16 MR. HORRELLs Yes.

17 MR. SHON:

Would it be in a beta range?

18 MR. MORRELL Say that again.

19 MR. SHONs Within a beta range of the crystal?

I 20 mean, you can see it directly?

21 MR. MORRELLs Yes, within a beta range.

The gas 22 comes straight down and then makes a 90 degree turn and goes 23 through the filter paper.

Then the scintillation detector

'-)

24 is sitting right at that 90 degree minute so the krypton 25 goes right in front of the face of the scintillation l

()

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1 detector and then turns 90 degrees and goes through the 2

filter paper.

()

3 MR. SHON:

It would seem though just offhand if it 4

took four or five minutes for it to start alarming that that 5

might be due to something building up on the filter paper 6

rather than due to what passes right in front of the crystal.

7 MR. MORRELLs I believe that it is just the 8

response time of the hydrogen control system.

In other 9

words, when you start the venting you do not immediately get 10 krypton in the stack.

Then when you get krypton in the 11 particulate monitor you do not immediately get response due 12 to electronic delay time also.

So what we saw is a slow, 13 steady increase of the needle af ter about one minute of the 1-4 venting.

I believe it was simply due to transit time of 15 krypton and then electronic delay time.

16 MR. SHON:

I see.

Thank you.

17 Go ahead, Dr. Paris, I didn 't mean to interrupt.

18 You were asking some questions I think.

19 DR. PARIS:

Well, I have nothing else on this 20 particular subject.

21 MR. SHON:

That is all I had.

I wanted to know 22 what went wrong and how you fixed it and I think you have 23 explained that to us.

24 You had something else I believe.

25 DR. PARISs Mr. Morrell, I think you can answer b

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, o.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

111 26 nk-1 this for us.

The Boa rd reads in the morning news that the 2

rapid purge will begin around mid-day today; is that correct?

(])

3 MR. MORRELL That is correct.

4 DR. PARISs Can you give us an estimate of the 5

rate at which you expect k r y p ton to be released in terms of, 6

say, a 24-hour period and the amount you expect to be 7

released, say, in the first 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> and an estimate of the 8

dose that you would expect that to give at, say, the 9

perimeter of the exclusionary?

10 MR. MORRELL:

I can answer that question to somo 11 extent.

However, it has to have a lot of provisos on the 12 front.

You have to assume the meteorology which I cannot 13 predict or accurately assume, and you have to assume that pg

\\./

14 there will be other mechanical problems or computer problems 15 associated with the system.

In other words, the 16 meteorological conditions must be such that I can assume a 17 constant flow rate or some flow rate in making predictions.

18 The meteorological conditions would also have to 19 be such that I could predict the wind direction and 20 theref ore I could predict the impact of the plume with the 21 terrain and therefore state what the dispersion of the plume 22 would be prior to its impacting the ground.

23 So in terms of doses I could not give you any real f

J 24 dose estimate.

I could give you an estimate based on our 25 past days of purging perhaps.

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DR. PARIS Why don't you do that.

2 MR. MORRELL:

All right.

()

3 DR. PARIS:

Indica te the assum ptions you a re 4

making.

5 MR. HORRELLs My assumption will be that we purge 6

at 1,000 cubic feet per minute for the entire 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> and 7

that the release rate would be in the neighborhood of what 8

we have seen over the past few days which is approximately 9

40,000 microcuries per second.

10 If you take 40,000 microcuries per second and 11 simply multiply out that number of microcuries per second by 12 the number of seconds in a day that would give you the 13 release.

I will have to make a quick calculation to do

{g m) 14 that.

I am also assuming that we will purge the entire day 15 with no interruptions, 24 straight hours in other words.

16 That would be 3,888 curies in 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> which is l'7 not out of line with some of the days that we have already 18 had.

Our maximum day so far has been about 4,980 curies in 19 a single day.

However, due to the now diluted concentration 20 of krypton in the building, even though we can move to a 21 2 aster rate system, the number of curies discharged will be Z2 down some.

23 So if you take 3,888 curies and then assume some I) 24 meterology then you could calculate those offsite.

Since it 25 is very direction dependent I would only be willing to say ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554 2345

113 28 n

1 that it will certainly be much less than the

.3 millirer. per 2

hour skin dose limit which we are using righ t now in our

()

3 computer program.

Therefore, if you assume that it was 4

somewhere less than probably

.1, which is logical, it wculd 5

be significantly less than a 2 millirem skin dose to a 6

hypothetically maximally exposed individual offsite.

That 7

person would have to be at the point when the plume touches 8

down for the entire time.

9 DR. PARIS:

Today's weather I take it is very 10 different from the weather you have been expetiencing for 11 the last week or so.

How would this affect the plume or how 12 would it affect your venting?

13 ER. MORRELLs The rain has no effect whatsoever on 14 th e ve n ting.

I do not know the exact wind conditions but I 15 suspect there is a several mile an hour wind and therefore 16 it should allow us to purge at least to the 1,000 cubic feet 17 per minute rate.

So it should be fairly good weather 18 conditions for venting at a thousand cubic feet per minute 19 or less.

When I left the allowable flow rate was 20 approximately 1,100 cubic feet per minute with our latest 21 computer printout.

The normal cycle is that when the sun 22 comes up and it starts heating up the earth then your 23 allowable flow rate slowly increases et least towards noon.

24 So I suspect the conditions are very good right now for 25 venting with the fast system.

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DR. PARIS:

Have you been cutting back the release 2

rate at night?

()

3 MR. MORRELL4 Yes, usually we do.

There have been 4

some conditions when we have been flov limited.

That means 5

we are at the maximum flow rate of the system because of the 6

very low concentrations that we now have in the reactor 7

building.

Therefore we didn't have tc cut back because we 8

were not at our allowable release rates anyway.

In general 9

our flow rates at night and our curie releases at night have 10 been significantly less than our daytime releases.

1 11 DR. PARIS 4 One final question.

If things go as 12 you hope they will technologically when will you be done?

13 MR. MORRELL4 Assuming we get on the large flow

['}

14 rate system today I believe we will be done in approximately 15 seven days.

16 DR. PARISs Thank you, Mr. Morrell.

17 MR. CHANDLER 4 Mr. Chairman?

• 18 CHAIRMAN WOLF 4 Yes.

19 MR. CHANDLER:

Dr. Bernard Synder, who is Director 20 of the TMI Program Office, has something he wished to add to 21 a statement made earlier by Mr. Morrell in response to the 22 Board's question.

If he may just add something.

23 CHAIRMAN WOLFS Would he do that then, please.

(D

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24 Please announce your name.

25 DR. S:1YDER :

I am Dr. Snyder.

I am the IMI

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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1 Program Director and have been since the 1st of April.

2 The only minor thing I wanted to make sure you

()

3 were aware of is that when Mr. Morrell mentioned that the 4

filter papers were being sampled on a 15-minute cycle 5

including the beginning of the purge, both we and the 6

Environmental Protection Agency obtained from that end those 7

same filter papers and did the benefit counting of the 8

particulates.

Neither they nor our laboratory people were 9

able to detect any particula tes at all.

That is my point.

10 DR. PARIS:

Dr. Synder, is the NRC and the EPA 11 analysis of the filter papers continuing?

12 DR. SNYDERs Yes.

They will be continuing.

13 MR. SHON4 Mr. Morrell men tioned tha t you were

{~}

14 using sodium iodide crystal to count.

Are you usino it on 15 the filter papers also.

16 FROM THE AUDIENCES (Chorus of agreement.)

?7 MR. SHON:

What particular nuclides were you 18 looking at?

19 MR. MORRELL:

We are not still doing 15-minute 20 sampling.

With th e real-time particulate monitor we are now 21 using daily counting of the filter.

We are doing a scan 22 wita a Celi detector and therefore it should pick up 23 essentially any gamma-emitting isotopo.

f'#

24 MR. SHON:

I see.

25 CHAIRMAN WOLF 4 Thank you.

O ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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31 0

1 Are there any further questions?

yestrrday, Mr. Shon 2

MR. CHANDER:

Mr. Chairman, e

()

3 raised a couple of questions.

I am not sure whether his 4

questions have been answered this morning.

5 MR. SHON I don't believe they have, Mr.

6 Chandler.

Actually I asked them in connection with us 7

considering the motion that was at that time before us but 8

it has since been withdrawn.

Out of curiosity it would ha 9

nice to have answers.

10 They were.

What fraction of the total curies had 11 been :aleased; and whether or not the operation as it now 12 stands could continue were we to reverse the.Commissi,on and

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13 put the tecnnical specs back to wha t they were before 14 modification.

15 MR. CHANDLER Let me see if I can provide some 16 general information.

If I start floundering I will call on l'7 somebody to help me out.

18 I believe, as Mr. Trowbridge indicated yesterday, 19 approximately 50 percent of the krypton has already been 20 released from the TMI-2 reactor building.

There were two 21 technical specifications that were affected by the 22 Commission's action.

23.

One of them pertained to the instantaneous release p_C 24 rates and when calculated out I believe permitted the rate 25 of approximately 45,000 microcuries per second.

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ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, o.C. 20024 (202)554-2345

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1 The quarterly limit is not a rate but a to tal 2

amount and would have been approximately 55,980.

The slow

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3 purge would not have exceeded that quarterly rate but would 4

have and did exceed the instantaneous rate.

5 MR. SHON:

That is what we thought.

However, you 6

are now down to the point in the purge where you are not 7

exceeding the instantaneous rate any more.

If I understcod, 8

the number given by Mr. Morrell was 40,000 microcuries per 9

second and you are allowed 45 or some such thing as that; is 10 that right?

11 MB. MORRELLs That is correct.

~4e are not 12 routinely using the small system exceeding the instantaneous 13 release rate tech spec.

When we get to the bigger system we O

14 vill at least have a larger flow rate capability and we 15 might again exceed it.

16 MR. SHON:

And obviously also if you complete the 17 entire operation in less than a quarter or even in a week or 18 so you don't exceed the quarterly limit either because it is 19 a few thousand curies over the total; is that correct?

20 MR. MORRELL:

That is correct.

You should also 21 realize we put some curies out during the past quarter of 22 approximately, if I remember correctly, four or five 23 thousand.

So if the quarterly release tech spec were in

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24 effect we should not reach it at this point.

25 MR. SHON:

Thank you.

I think that clears the O

ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202)554 2345

118 33 O( /

1 whole thing up.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLF Mr. Sholly, Dr. Paris wants to

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3 spesk for the Board and will do directly to you.

4 DR. PARIS:

Mr. Sholly, the Board also wants to 5

express its appreciation for your efforts in this matter and 6

to indicate to you that we certainly appreciate the sense of 7

frustration that you have experienced because of the 8

Commission 's order permitting f ast rate venting to 9

proceeding while at the same time allowing for a hearing to 10 be held if necessary in the matter.

11 CHAIRMAN WOLF Does anyone have anything further 12 to add at this time?

13 (No response.)

1-4 If not, we will adjourn sine die I guess.

15 (Laughter.)

16 We will wait to hear from the counsel before s'e 17 proceed.

However, we will issue a memorandum regardine the 18 venting situation and we will withhold any memorandum 19 regarding the change in the technical specifications until 20 we have heard from the parties and have the contentions in 21 hand to submit.

22 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

It appears to me we.

have 23 open, Mr. Chairman, the question of standing fo f~/

T 24 Lochstet.

Even though we will be discussing contentions 25 with him the Board may wish to rule on that subject.

pd ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

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119 34 1

CHAIRMAN WOLF At this time you mean?

I thought 2

ve would rule on that when we got cut the me=orandum and

()

3 order on the changing of the technial specif ica tions.

4 MR.

10WB RI DGE :

If you were to rule against Dr.

5 Lochstet you would save him a trip.

6 CHAIRMAN WOLF I beg your pardon?

7 MR. TROWBRIDGE:

If you were to rule against Dr.

8 Loch stet you would save him a trip.

9 CHAIRMAN WOLFS I haven't conferred with the other 10 seabers of the Board, but at least as far as I am concerned 11 I would not rule against him.

12 HR. TROWBRIDGE:

We will proceed on the assumption 13 that he is a party.

1-4 CHAIRMAN WOLFa There is no basis for worrying 15 about the trip.

16 Very well then we will stand adjourned.

17 (Whereupon, at 9:55 a.m.,

the hearing adjourned 18 sine die.)

19 20 21 22 23 1

24 25

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l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.

. 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554-2345

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