ML19310A824

Transcript of 770321 Briefing in Washington,Dc Re Edlow Intl Co Application to Export SNM to India.Pp 1-42

ML19310A824
Person / Time
Site:	07002131, 07002485
Issue date:	03/21/1977
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8006300560
Download: ML19310A824 (42)

Text

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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA EARLY all 2

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

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COMMISSION BRIEFING ON TARAPUR h_

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.._________________x 5

In the Matter $f:-

License No. XSNM-845 6

g Docket No. 70-2131 EDLOW INTERNATIONAL COMPANY 7

.(Agent for the' Government of India i License No. XSNM-1060

.8 on Application:to Export Special Docket No. 70-2485

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Nuclear. Materials) a.. ~

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_ _ _ _ _ _ a _;- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x 11 Room 1115

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~1 1717 H Street, N. W.

12 Washington, D. C.

e 13 Monday, 21 March 1977

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2.14 Briefing-inythe'above-entitled mat.ter convened at 15 11:15 a.m.

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16 BEFORE:.

17 MARCUS A.

ROWDEN, Chairman 18 RICHARD T. KENNEDY, Commissioner x.-

n-a w 19 V.:CTOR-GILINSKY, Commissioner 20 PRESENT:

i 21 PETER L.~ STRAUSS, Esq., General Counsel.,

STEVEN OSTRACH, Esq., Office of the General Counsel 22 CARLTON STOIBER, Esq., Assistant General Counsel G

D.t.

BENJAMIN HUBERMAN, Director, Office of Policy Evaluation F

23 NORM TERRELL, Office of Policy Evaluation 24 Office of Policy Evaluation MARTHA HOLLAND, Am Faicat Reporters, Inc.

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2 MR. STOIBER:

You have before you, I believe, a i

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. memorandum from-General Counsel's office concerning the con-h 4

solidation. motion which was filed February 10th by Elden 5

Greenberg, re9arding the next in a series of pending license

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_ CHAIRMAN.ROWDEN:

Does that mean the petition they-

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No, they have not petitioned to a

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They have the petition II

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on 845.

12 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

You say -- you mean there's an g:..

-13 application thathhas been.. filed with a_ number _on it?

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~14 MR. STOIBER:

Right.

15 CHh5RMAN ROWDEN:

I ask that to clarify, because 16 you notice they have not petitioned openly and I just want to 17 understand the background fact.

18 MR. STOIBER:

That's right.

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

May I ask a technical ques-20 tion:

If the Commission were to consolidate XSNM-1060 with 21 XSNM-845, would that not have the effect, then, of placing the 22 NIDC in a position of an intervener on 1060?

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23 MR. STOIBER:

Yes, I believe it would.

24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

So, in effect, by requesting Ace-Fedwol Reporters, Inc.

25 the joining of the two he is, in effect, petitioning for j

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intervel..: ion.-- not directly, but indirectly?

2 MR. STRAUSS:

Didn't he say that in his papers?

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3 MR) STOIBER:

I think he talks about the similarity (M

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of the iss'ues.' It's a very brief japer, of course.

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

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.?N-MR.LSTOIBER:

But I think that's correct in a.pu_

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Why become a participant in that proceeding-to-.

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"30 10 MR. HUBERMAN:

That's also consistent with the Il judice -- 75 in.:the sense that this ir an ongoing supply, and 12 even though the decision isn't made in a final way on 805,'

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the cases.are lost from the petitioners standpoint because

" ~I4 theredare further supplies where the issue can still be --

15 the decision can still be reached.

16 Would you agree on that, Carl?

17 MR. STOIBER:

Yes.

18 Then, on February 22nd, the Staff applied -- indi-

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20 dation under the rule cited by Eldon.

2I CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

They corrected that provision?

rp MR. STOIBER:

We have written the order to --

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3 23 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

I mean about what they recommended.

24 Is the Staff technically correct in the way the rules apply?

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25 MR. STOIBER:

Well, I think it's.-- The problem o

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I here is that we've stated before, or at least our prior deci-2 l sions on Tarapur inclicate, the rules now in place in part two 3

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apply only to domestic licensing.

Therefore, you know, they 4

do not apply; there's a somewhat different view.

5 fd 7 ;C ISSIONER KENNEDY:' And haven't we' reasserted m.

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7 MR. m'STOIBER: _,Yes.

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9 saying.that y eyf' don't' apply at all.

Period.

10 So, what'the Staff did say, however, in Point 6 of II their paper as that OELD believes, nonetheless, that the 12 concern of thei movement concerning consolidation of common 13 issues could and should be taken by the Commission.

Id Then, in a. reply filed by Eldon on March 2nd, he IS noted that th Commission has the authority, generally, to 16 grant a consolidation on its own initiative where that would I7 insure fair. consideration of the issues.

18

. And.we have suggested, in our memorandum, that the -

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two proceedings'be consolidated, largely because they are 20 similar.

They involve the same parties, the same issues, and 21 for tl further reason that it would make mucn easier any kind 22 g

of interim action on XSNM-845 that you might wish to take.

w 23 CHAIRMAN ROWDENi Would it?

I'd like to relate 24 what's going on now to the broader picture.

Ao..r.o.r.i neporters, inc.

25 This communication that just came in certainly 6

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.seems.to indicate, as you say, considering what appears to be l

2 l the most valuable option of recommendation.

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

What communication?

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Well, I just got this:

a._ copy of

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th'er.Tarapti[cE5tperddatedcMahch 14.-- wentatot'.he: Staff, accopy w.

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6 d6k'us -- andh.liiSMshthe final draft of3the Tarapur Paper 7

setting forth the options, leading to a couple of alternative

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I"25aven't seen'that.2~~

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.asking for -- because there was one that came through ---

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Shea has asked the Staff for '

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Ad :this copy came to us, I assume that it's open to M..

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-COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Is the one that we had by,'

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16 Tuesday?

I7 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

No, this is something -- Well, it 18 says please3givetcomments to you by 2:00 p.m.

today.

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20 MR. HUBERMAN.

It was distributed Friday.

We read 21 it Frid1y.

22 MR. STOIBER:

I haven't seen it.

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23 CHAIRMAN.ROWDEN:

Well, what I'm trying to do is 24 put everything we're doing into an overall picture.

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Is this the one that claims

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1 it_has. to.go,.in May?

2 CHAIRMAN'ROWDEN:

I believe so, yes.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

A little footnote on it?

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

That's right.

They talk about a 5

decision by y C at.the end of April.

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of'it, becau'sd h ey~have that footnote which says'~they"realizet 9

xc7 10 it could be later, but that would involve --

1 II COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

It says we ruled it out.

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

It seemed to have ruleck ~it" 12 i

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~ld COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

It says we ruled it out.

15 JCHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Well, what I don't know is whk;:--

16 whether this takes into account most recent information that I7 we received on India, which talks about a different operational 18 schedule.

I don't see any reference to it here.

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20 explored, but there's a further matter which took place subse-quenttothak.

2I 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

I didn't that, and you

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24 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

And this is the fuel-loading Acm.Federst Reporters, Inc.

25 pla as far as Tarapur is concerned.

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1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

On, well,-that fact that 2 ' they changed the fuel elements and further reduced the --

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' COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Those two together.

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YesyI just don't know how that

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

But whatever the timing is, I 11 think we've got tc look down the road and fit our procedural 12 actions into'what subsequent actions would be later.

Because 13 I've got two basic questions which I would like for you to ja c-address after you finish your presentation.

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Oneis a very straightforward one:

What n m W ntial 16 implications flow from our determination to consolidate these 17 two?

And.whatyrinnthat:connectionn-- how would any presiden-nu 18

.tial effect,., apply to other proceedings where someone has sought

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19 to intervene in connection with the application to supply a 20 particular quantity to a particular country, and then there are 21 later applications filed for which no intervention is --

(.pi-request is submitted?

23 And where do we stand on that regard?

Is it an auto-24 Ace Federal Reporters, Inc.

matic Connection which flows from the first contested appli-25 cation?'

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Remember' we ran into this rather specifically in 2

connection with the applications that appeared for the Federal

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Two different facilities there in one

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country as.'opposedLto one facility here.

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I know you can draw that distinc-2

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"A119right7 that's question number one.

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To what extent would consoli-11 dation affect our ability to make a determination to allbw,

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or to not allow, any application from interimship.

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All right, your second question was 15 th'e point that.I-was:about-to address here, and in our memo-16 randum we express our view that permitting the consolidation 17 would allow us to proceed with an interim shipment more easily.

18

.MR NHUBERMAN:

Yesterday's events in India -- -

19 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Of course, that's another --

20

.MR. HUBERMAN:

-- also make this something that 21 could stretch out for a-long, long time if U. S. perceives --

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Executive branch perceives -- that they can get a different 23 deal out of this-than before -- the whole operation.

24 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN-I know, you can read those events Ac..Fedoral Reporters, Inc.

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1 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Now, wait,.I want to be sure 2

I understand what you're saying.

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That the need to make sure you can go 5

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That's what I was-trying-R-- ;.-

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..'uYpend a licensing action even though we had the recommenda-s II tion?

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I just wanted to be sure of

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15 MR.,HUBERMAN:

No, I just think the need for pre-3.

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16 senting the interim remarks was made even core important by 17 yesterday's events.

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18 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Yes.

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I9 MR. STOIBER:

Our reason for---

20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

The interim shipment --

21 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Speak into the microphone.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Yes, I must speak into tl.3 n.

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23 microphone.

24 MR. HUBERMAN:

On this interim, you could stil'. have Ace.F::terst Reporters, Inc.

25 the mid-interim ship --

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That is your view as I 2, understand it.

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-Bilt that is not-inconsisEent withI '-

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saying that you need to present the interim shipment.

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We all would agree that we want.

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. COMMISSIONER: M DY:

Yes,.' I ' d 'like tot know: the~.T --

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Th'e-reason --

1I CHAIRMAN-ROWDEN:

mong those considerations I'd g7 12 want to know what the foreign policy of the D'oartment of Stale (b I.[

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14 MR. STOIBER:

Well, the reason why it -- feel it 15 gives a greater flexibility to deal with the interin shipment 16 program, is that what Eldon is, in essence, trying to do here 17 is to insure that the Commission not act on XSNM-1060 while 18 preserving the status of XSNM-845; therefore, continuing to

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20 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

1060 is the latest?

21 MR. STOIBER:

That's the latest application that (e.

we received jus't a couple of months ago while maintaining the 22 21 23 sort of legal situation as it presently exists on the prior 24 license:

namely, that we have litigation before the Court of Ace.Fc.ferel Reporters. Inc.

25 Appeals to make various procedural allegations.

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-Therefore, our feeling that to couple or to consoli-

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,that is, take an interim action on one license if it received

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1 reviews o"f*"the State Department and averything else was ini ' ~T'

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~:before the Cotirtsof 1 Appeals was not impaired because there was

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,additiona'lnlicenseEin the pipeline.

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10 wanted to raise with respect to shipments of fuel to India, 11 would be preserved in a Commission proceeding still pend,ing.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

How could Eldon have been 14 w

permitted conc..,essions?

15 MR. STOIBER:

Otherwise, I think Eldon might be

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persuaded that if we decided to go forward with an interim 17 license on XSNM-845 without a consolidation, that is the point 18 at which he shouldfseek some kind of injunctive relief from

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39 the courts so that he is able to preserve his legal position.

20 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

No, wait a minute.

Let's go 21 through this step-by-step.

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

That is the rationale that 23 we used in the previous case, 845 concession.

24 MR. STOIBER:

That's right.

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Aren't we at liberty now to decide u

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1 845 once we',re satisfied the record is sufficient'.'for the. basis l

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Notwithstanding the fact that a

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- MR.-. STOIBER:, Yes, you're. free to do that.

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C CHAIRMAN ~iROWDEN:9 5.!in.not saying that 'we would; 1'm

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just sayin;y,g2g.: legally are we in a position to do it?

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Now, how does consolidation give 7..

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15 MR..STOIBER:

Well, if we have issued 845, and their

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16 mootness argument ari'2es on our part subject to the matter of 17 this transaction.

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18 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

In other words, if we should

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19 decide to issue the 845

- if we were so requested -- as an interimship$ent, the generic question, so to speak, would still 20 21 be before us'if we gave them some assurance that all the 22 questions th2at they raised would be considered in connection C=.g 6 :-

23 with what are the number of subsequent applications.

24 Is that what you are maintaining?

Am-Federst Reporters, Inc.

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Yes, that's right.. -

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. CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Is there any way to do.that other

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- ' COMMISSIONER KENNEDYi? Why can't'we simply make th$.s~

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I'm concerned about making a formal statement of

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What.is there left to be 1

13 doing?

What 351it that is being:preservedh

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' MR.' ' STOIBER :

Well, what is being preserved with 15 this connection was some specific license that --

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4-16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

No, but it seems that the 17 Commission is going to go through arprocess it hasn't yet gone 18 thorugh, whicl$"it is now going to go through in connection-

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20 MR. STRAUSS:

The corpus before the Court of 21 Appeals.

22

//h COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

I thought we went through 23 the hearing.

2d CHAIPMAN ROWDEN:

We've gone through :the whole pro-Ace-Federsi Reporters, Inc.

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Right.

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11 Andithat's what they're contemplating:

that there

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Yes.

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. And there's no proceeding in this CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

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20 MR. STOIBER:

That's right.

2I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

But tnis case is before the 22 g=jy Court of Appeals.

It's through here.

23 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

That's thi ough.

He's through 24 here.

Ace.Fedoest Reporters, Inc.

25 MR., STRAUSS:

And he then, immediately --

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It is his problem.

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What we're trying to do, however, is not force ~him

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II COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

We're preserving his right--

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to go -- to pu* sue his case in the court against whatever ship-hY

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I'want an injunction until-all the generic issues are resolved."

-1 19 20 And, therefore,--there could be no interim shipments.

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There is, essentially, the answer to 21 MR.

22 C=._.

your' question.about why couldn't we just issue a general ' state-

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23 ment saying that we intended to take these matters into consi-

_1 24 deration in our future licensing, because he would not have --

Ace.Federst Reporters, Inc.

25 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

He wouldn't have a right.

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That's right.

He would not have a ___

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This is, in effect, a u.

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You didn't permit him to intervene on 15 the other license either.

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What, in effect, you're saying is.

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That's right.

20 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

That's right, but he can go to 2I court.

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But:we're still in this mode of being" q.-

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% fore the Court of Appeals, having briefed it and argued it 24 and awaiting a decision.

He wants to preserve th't jurisdic-a Ace Federt.1 Reporters, Inc.

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There_.is the alternative,_but not, I

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Let me try to : respond to your quest [on, 12

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'I thinE it would,' inevitably,' have some effect on~

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But I think we also --

17

, CHAIRMANFROWDEN: ~ Or even the same countries.

-T 18 j 'MR. STOIBER:

Yes, or even the same countries, so, n:, :

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19 perhaps, I think it would be weaker on a country analysis --

is 20 not the same-facility.

21 However,'it also has something of a ' presidential 22 effect 15 Nerms of four finding a decision making -- when you g

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24 And what you said earlier is that you intend to Ace.Federst Fleporters, Inc.

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So, this is certainly consis-2 tent with that -- that approach -- that you don'E have to sub-

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Suppose

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I don't think you would have to.

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'MR;, : ~.HUBERMAN :

They had before you did last time.

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I'm just -- you know, there are tworeasonswhI'maskingthis:

one, would we have to --

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22 And the latEer is not insignificant.because that is one of the 1

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matter, to have~a direct interest in this proceeding, giving:

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last time they made a. deal with;the. -

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You remember-that Qa. 34 5,up ~~,.

caused certain --

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Oh, yes.

16 MR. HUBERMAN:

Are they trying to do that this time,

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MR. -STOIBER:

Not that I'm aware of".-

.I think if 19 you take the view that what these people were afforded in their 20 Tarapur proceedings were adequate, that all issues were fairly 7; m 21 ventilated, I think there is no compelling need to give them 2

g a second shot ai things.

23 However, if you think there are additional issues, 24 such as timing, and you want to have a viewpoint --

Am-FwMal Reponers, Inc.

25 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Oh, I don't think there's going m.g 1

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The growing railroad track.

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15 MR. STRAUSS:

That would be a different situation

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16 if they had established the rights which they, in court, are I7 attempting to: establish.

18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Do they, in affect, loose j

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their court case if this shipment goes out?

20 MR. STOIBER:

They may not, but I think the argument

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21 is pretty strong' that they will.

22 (G:l'.

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

I thought there was this 23 legal principal about evading and all of that.

2#

I MR. STRAUSS:

Evading review?

It's possible, but --

Ace-Federst Reporters. Inc.

MR. STOIBEq:

I don't see the rationale of forcing

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I don't think they would rest on y

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Why don't they get together MP,.--

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Well,-I think it's not up to us--

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I guess my impression of Eldon..isg-__.

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'the Court'of' App'eal's'-- and I'm not sure he'scanxiouscto;. supply 16 additional material on this.

Maybe he's not aware it's neces-j' aary.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Isn't it preserving just a 22

~1iitle bit of'345?

Isn't that all he needs?.Anything else?

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23 MR. STRAUSS:

Yes.

gg MR. STOIBER:

Yes.

Ace.Federsi Reporters, Inc.

25 CHAIRMkN ROWDEN:

The last time an interim shipment m.

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came-up they mort ofM nvented a new license application, didn't 2

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MR. HUBERMAN.

Yes.

They amended it, yes.

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s CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

They amended it.

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5 What is the} quantity of material involved in 845 1.

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Wait ~a minuteli In fact, my m

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Q imp =ression. of;.the State.recomme,n,dation,. at least when they

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

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C,O.M..M...IS,S.I_ON_ER..GILINS.Kr..i.

-__awhich.would leave mosts,,

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~ CHAIRMAN ROWD':11:

What is the total quantity encom-

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-4 passed?

1. 6 MR. STRAUSS:

It also became clear that there was 17 only a two-week or a'relatively short six.

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o...COM.MISSIONE_R GILinsky:.

No, no, no,$no, no.

19

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. CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Let's take a look at the number.

20 What.does 845. encompass as it presently stands?

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12 tons.

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

12 tons?

And what are they pro-w 23 posing in terms,of an interim shipment?

24

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

I think it's a couple of Ace.Fderst fleporters, Inc.

25 tons, or something'.i.,..

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I.think-the problem is not.that the. Indians are.

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They're short of a 2.1 because they "deliber-

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squeeze;.and thatl enrichment, when they've got some of that, C.""[ -Q

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So, it's not an all or nothing-

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In either case, right.

I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

II mean,.that's the way he proposed it, as I remember.

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. MR. HUBERMAN:.Right.

I guess he discovered thdt..

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there' sea mean'ing*,"also.

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STRAUSS:

My recollection, though, was that the

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y 15 2.1 was not goinc[ to last a very long time, then the 2.66 was 16 needed.

17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Yes, but for the third 18 shipmenti -- for the third refueling --

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~19 MR. STRAUSS:

Even so, you'll recall the State K

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20 Department has been,-and continues to be, that the Indians

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21 have only thi [ohe plant which can barely keep up with the 1

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fuel needs of the Tarapur facility, and they, therefore, can-

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23 not impose upon that plant holidays an'd not provide the 2.66 34

. within -that.xelatively short period there.

It would be to Ace Federce Reporters, Inc.

25 impose a holiday on the plant.

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-MR.!STOIBER:

The follow-on license XSNM-1060 is fo

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2 7600 kilograms f uranium, enriched at 2.15 percent.

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'* " "! COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

2.-what?

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.COMMISS..IONER GILINSKY:.And what is the 8457 What

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-..MS.5EOLLAND:,c.Ilthink it's 12 tons,.but'I don't know.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

That whole problem arises 7 q;\\. 8

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wt;f because ~they -took+the wrong enrichment when they split the'

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_ COMMISS'IONER GILINSKY:

I can't. imagine that was Ai ;; L AM::.;:.;;=%p-.<2:7 ~ ~, ~.nmW

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All right.

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15 MR. STOIBER:

Let me mention one further thing, and 16 that is that we have a suggestion from Ben Huberman's office that-we =make one2bl5ange in the order at the bottom of page 2, 17 and. the t"op "'of;page 3, which would reflect the fact that they.

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U do not have_a.right, under section 2.716, to consolidation.-

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duct of adjudicatory hearings, and,1therefore, not to the

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Tarapur licensing actions, they provide guidance for deciding 23 whether or not to cite such actions.

'24 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:- I had problems because it becomes Ace. Federal fleporters, Inc.

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to import --^.andfI"know this wasn't your intention -- the

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_c'ntents which.are. legitimately applicable to adjudicatory pro-

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2 l ceedings, and to what we pretty much decided the argument would 3

be.less formal-type of proceedings for --

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Well, then, you're having trouble 9

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1.I ve a great deal of. difficulty. going _.with the.

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dO,MMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Are there not in almost II

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16 heading down once we make this decision to consolidate, pro-17.ceeding asswe':-do,.!and that's why I'm probing to see if it's 18 necessary to consolidate.

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in"your proposed 4 order-here, it's premised onrthe supposition

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21 that' it woulcRbe unjust for the Commission to rule on' th'e 22 recenti; XSNM-1060 before acting on 845.

That's really their

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That's correct.

Am Federst Reporters. ltic.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

What-is the court -- does

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1 MR. STRAUSS:

Well, last action of that court,. in a_.,,

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~ matter of,-a.ffecting the Commission:very closely, the --. case...

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filed was --"the panel sitting on_the caselhas two judges,

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eachother.;in3theirwritingaboutissues. of prec,isely this. _@

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TMn'th a usually use JudgesLLevanthalaand Bazelon,-

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3 15 meeting at-the' Cosmos Club, February.

He sounded'like~he was- -

16 very current with what the arguments in the case were, and 17 what-the possible considerations, one way or another.

18 But, the short answer is, there's no more to tell. -

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~~ COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Well. if; in -fact, State 22 would only be. requesting for part of this 845 shipment, can't S.a e

23 we just sit on~this until that becomes clear; and at that

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- 24 point -- and,fthey'll-know:theyestill.haveraupiecs 6f~845.

M.C Ace Fedeed Reporters. Inc.

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-.MR.yTERRELL:- Of course, the time for intervening is 2

going to run out.

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Has it run out already?

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4 MR. TERRELL:

I said it's going to run out if it 5

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Well, there is a'certain~'. amount of.r~n'

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time to intervene.

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CHAIRMbi ROWDEN:

When does 1060 run out, or when

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.is 1060-filen? " ~n~

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STRAUSS:

Well, there's time;iin that res,pect 1

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But'h'ere hgain, I think he probably would decide

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14 that, given the result in the Tarapur case, he had no right

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15 to intervene.

That's what you decided, and that's before the 16 Court of Appeals.

17

-- -What.he~has done by this motion is the practical 18 equipment petition.

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

What'.s wrong with the course

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recommended'by'the'Staf f ?

Would it consi' der acting here on 21 the application?

2 gf MR. STRAUSS:

I assume it would.

It would not

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23 achieve the purpose that we see in consolidation.

24

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m MR. STOIBER:

It's no longer tied to a' license.

Ace.Feder) Reporters, Inc.

25

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MR. STRAUSS:

It no longer gives-the Court of

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. Appeals.ani~'. assurance that there.is still a corpus. before.it. _

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COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

I can't understand why not

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.-if rwe say'itidoes,1without agreeing formally to" consolidation"

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.. COMMISS.IONER GILINS'KY':

We ' re'isaying V,. basically,

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d-W h 5. 5 4 A V4thatriftheegets.the % M "n% O-give himestandingeon the.next m.

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Well, I guess we're. reluctant to

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-say that without having filed, even though'if he'.'s h" eld stand ~..

10 in"g in 845, he automatically g'e's standing in 1060.

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ILthink they're seeking participation of proceeding

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with a cerEdin' buiden... That's.right, otherwiseTwe're~in the D

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16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Well, but he hadn't filed 17 for 'it.whenjit.was time.

18 CO'MMISSIONER KENNEDYi I know, but -- Well, on the-

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other hand,j e did, he has acted in this way, which,'in effect, h

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2I a petition for intervention.

It's another way to get at it.

22

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Was his timing or --

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23 MR. STOIBER:

Yes, I think he's done everything that m ;f4 ['

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heithought was necessary to preserve his rights.

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

But let's'see what he's asking.

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.You say;.he's..supposing thatihis concern lies.in one area, b 2t

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i his stated concern is something differ _;it, and that is that wewould' acto [1560before~acti'ng'on845.--thatwewould' f"

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move 845 before the court has ruled on 845.

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COMMISS'IONER GILINSKY:

In which case he again has i

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. any future export, especially with regard to material.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

But he's talking about a 16 20-year license.

17 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

He's saying more likely as 18 20-year denial.

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COMMISSIONER ~ KENNEDY:

He's saying that whatever.

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decision is made' -- Would that, given the language of what he 22 g

says, -wouldn't 'that apply as well to a partial shipment under v,;;;.;-

23 845?

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That's what the point 1 am making.

Am Federel Repc. tors, leic.

25

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COMMISSIONER KBNNEDY:

Whatever you do, any shipment qp-r 8=-

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.1 of..any kind.should be made-only after consideration-of the.

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Is.that:.what he's saying on page 27

-5

. IMR. ~ STO,IBER: 'Well,.I guess,.I.would. read..it that.

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What is-

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10 should be made at this time without formally consolidating the-11 two proceedings, taking into account the commonality of,the 12

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. issues, and,therefore..you serve Tarapur., Atomic.< Power Station.L..

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5 MR. STRAUSS:

He's trying to associate the two.

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~ MR. TERRELL:

We're not going to make a decision 15 right now -.isingle decision that's applicable to -- We're 16 simply not going to do that.

17 MR. HUBERMAN:

It's not allowed by law, for one 18

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thing.

MR. STRAUSS:

No, it's not.

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__'20 COMM SSIONER KENNEDY:

Consolidation would be con-21

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he says 22 (E

CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

When is State supposed to come

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23 back to us with tneir proposed schedule?

24

- MR.THUBERMAN:

Well, that paper is supposed to be Ace. Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 4

a a presentation o you later this week, isn't it?

Or next week?

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intend to put forward to Christopher for a --

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That's the address M.

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you-had, why"ha'n't you given us your comments?

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There's a real problem of consolida-10 tion that I've just seen --

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Or.something like that.

18 MR. TERRELL:

Let me.try to express it:

I think 19 that this conversation has led to a real problem with consoli-

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25 maybe would say, closer to when it's needed.

But, in any event, 3

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' you shouldn't--accept the proposition that once you decide on -

2 I 845, any other license is before you.

For they're undecided

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what happens in the intervening period.

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10 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

It's not right, but_it's a concept U

which is very difficult to articulate in a way which tak,es gp,.

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ness in stable areas where there are no security concerns

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m 15 who_would like to feel that once we make a basic determination, 16 even though we may have the theoretical right to examine it, mw_

17

.that materialj;there,.af ter. it, is -going to flow -- in the 18 absence of change of circumstances.

19 MR.; STRAUSS:

My recollection is that we said some-m

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~20 thing toathat; eEhet, in fact, in Tarapur.

7._.y. m.-,pgW 2I MR. STOIBER:

I was going to say, we did announce in 22 g=-

this Tarapur decision that we did consider the generic issues.

23 All issues do no,.t arise everytime --

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~ COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Let me ask you something, Ace. Federal Fleporters. inc.

,y 25 though, here... What are the chances that, in fact, the court

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.will-issue an-injunction?

2 MR. STOIBER:

I would rate them as l'ess than -

3 50 percent.

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4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

More than ten percent?

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MR. STOIBER:. Well; from -- Well, that' depends.,

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CHAIRMAN:ROWDEN:

I had one experience with.this y 7 -

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15 court which is somewhat analogous.

That was in connection with-16 the.Cann!.kan. test,,where.they.said.thatsthe.. federal government 17 did.;not apply h or?the applications, and that those obligations 18 should be complied with.

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president--howf"t'o -exerci'se his national security -responsibility.

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21 They refused to enjoin the test, and they said that even if-22 GE the test takes place, these issues reinain before us for a y=

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Cannikan;:of course, was an extreme. case.

Whether

l Am Feder'.1 Reporters, Inc.

they would follow that here, I don't know.

My guess would be

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. that.,they would,.not want to.become involved in.a matter which -

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3 sort *.of injunction;

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I think that's right.

I think that,

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you.would.wantTto inform:the Board of your intention to do-that.

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Well, how would.the process

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I1 MR. STOIBER:

There would be a hearing.

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7 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:.-Well, say you discuss the

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And so it doesn't sound like --

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There is sophisticated apprecia-17

. tion:of the process if we should consolidate.

How would other 18 trading partners view the actions that we're taking here?

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19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Could one -- going back to u

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Could one~ reasonably m., =" ~

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22 MR. STOIBER:

Well, as I said before, I think there 3.

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23 are some presidential -- effect does flow from the motion to 24 consolidate. 2 Fib Ace-Federal Reporters, Iric.

25 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

We're sort of saying:

Here's the

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-path that..someone was astute-enough-to figure'out, and it won ' t 2

be long before that'same path is going to be pursued by 3

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But on the other side, when you

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We could say that in any event.-- : -

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Yes.

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After we make a decision-on y.

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That's the law of the case.

37

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COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Who knows the point until -,

f 18

'unless there's some kind of changed circumstances?

I9 MR. TERRELL:

Carb't you just be very specific, and

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tell'--- and^make an order ~that says that we assure you that we 7

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21 are not going to go up to the court and say that because 845 22 ) or any part of it is gone, that the case is over with?

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That's not the issue that they've

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25 MR. STOIBER:

We can say that.

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. COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:. Well,-can't we say that we x

2 consider these in order?

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" MR.t STOIBER: ' We can:say we'll be nice guys,'and

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Whytdon't we say."the. Staff says."?d _Z_

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Well, it's on the second pate here,-

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cominonality '.2.ssue, which' is what we do issue, even if there H

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MRESTOIBER:. What reasons do we offer for failing?

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Well, the question just denied

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I think you'll have to

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22 2.n for doing that?

?

23 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

Well, I thought what is set forth

- ba:prettyigood argument under our procedures...We're not.2 _

24 Ace-FedeerJ Reporters, Inc.

25 having to.. consolidate.

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If you-say that auout-taking into 2

account commonality of issues, don't you undermine your posi-

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

It's really -- not that I want to

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say this,.L.be"cause "iwe. don't know~how the future's going to go,?

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put before"us!with that shipment to India.

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10 COMMISSIONER:GILINSKY:

Can you actually tell that" 11 A will be acted on in order, and the chance of 845 just slipping

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

You've got to be careful about --

lw w 34 This is what-I'm concerned about in talking about acting on 15

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-them,aand if. State recommends an interim chipment and have 16 another number just like they did last time -- that will.be 17 number.threeh.that will -be before us to' act on before number 18 one and two ha've been acted on.

19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Yes.

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- 20 CHARIMAN ROWDEN:' So, it's not acting on it.

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sv As, 21 That's the logical n.v to go about it.

That's the way we 22 E

did it last time.

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23 MR. STOIBER:

But I think that the basic thrust of n

24

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.your-quest on is:

Can~we talk to Eldon and try to reassure Ace.Fedad Reponm. Inc.

25 him what we're doing?

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- OMMISSIONER'GILINSKYU Butilt soundsilike'ithe' tr '

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It's"not so much~the risk as-taking t.

10 a differenthposition and actually enjoining it the risk is of.

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CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

The fact of the matter is:

let's-

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We're not going to act on 1060 17 before on 84p We know that that's the case.

Eldon may or 18

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may not know it, but in terms of the way the future is going

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19 to unfold and'significant in what's going to be before the y..

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court for.considera ion,

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23 on 845 or some other subsequently filed provision, would we j

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24 ibedree to-do.. eat with giving-some notice to the parties?

Aes-Feder# Reporters, Inc.

25 Let's think about that.

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MR. STRAUSS:

No..

2 CHAIRMAN-ROWDEN:

Does State know this?

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You now get back to the matter of timing.

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State wants to press this matter before us, these things do noti happen over might:I don't think.-

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Do we have to consider how this is going to

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Are we in a position II where,-.before we actuon. any further shipment to India if-no 12 w

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FR. STRAUSS:

Yes, as a practical matter, yes.

. 4.v 15 CHA~IRMAN ROWDEN:

This is what you would recommend?

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MR. STRAUSS:

Yes.

_E 17 MR. STOIBER:

We put a line to that effect on IE 18 fi page 4 of the draft opinion, when we say:

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reasonable prior notice of licensing action taken by the 5

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All right, so we would propose to f5 E?

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In other words, we. wouldn't put ourselves in a gp 24

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position of appearing to thumb our nose at the court.

25 MR. STRAUSS:

No, and there's nothing, for that "d

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matter, nothing -- ure nt except for that.it'.s been filed and

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You mean without respending.

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WDEN: Wou. mean Withouti. responding to. ['

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'8 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Now, that's a good idea.

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All right with me.

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_.-Whenca 5.2we going.to have this briefing?; I'd like--

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I think it's on the schedule.

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That briefing, now -- would that.

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16 from the Executive branch the hard realities that, of course, 17 we'd have to follow if they were to come forward with request?

18

MR. HOYLE

The 31st.

19 MR. HUBERMAN:

A week from Thursday.

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UYbMMISSIONERKENNEDY:

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A week'from' Thursday.

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21 1 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

We'11 be here.

22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Yes, but that's a long time.

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23 Still, I'd like.tolask if one is inserting in that sentence on 24 page 4 leference.also to the court, if we then were to say. :r Ace Federd Fleporters. It c.

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.we're going.to act.in a way which would be consistent with i

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Well, the reasonuforcuy. comment. 9fcc

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of 845 is asked for fwe need not grant this motion because

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We don't have any other reason..

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Well, if v0 had to act on it 16 today -- and I don't think we do -- I would like to have that 17 for -the brief..-to state.

I would like to follow a course of._

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-action that wah recommended by the Staff, which takes us down sort of the bottom of page 2, and couple that with the

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_.' ~~~ MR. STOIBER:.Well LI don't chink it'.s crucial that

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4 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

In the meantime, before State i

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.Il COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

On any -subject.

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' U MR.nSTOIBER:. ' All right.

Thank you.

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Thank you.'

13 CHAIRMAN ROWDEN:

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(Whereupon, at 12:.3 0 p.m., the hearing.was

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