ML19309G300
| ML19309G300 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 09/14/1979 |
| From: | Keimig R NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8005050533 | |
| Download: ML19309G300 (57) | |
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N U CLE A R REG U L ATO R'f CO MMISSIO N I
I l
I I
IN THE MATTER OF:
THREE MILE ISLAND SPECIAL INQUIRY DEPOSITION DEPOSITION OF:
RICHARD R. KEIMIG t
Place - KING OF PRUSSIA, PA.
Dete -
SEPTE?EER 14, 1979 Pages 1 - 57 e
a 7.iehen.:
(202)347 3700 ACE -FEDERAL REPORTERS,INC.
OfficialReponen 444 Nonh Capitol Street Washington. D.C. 20001 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE DAILY 4
e
.n
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION SPECIAL INQUIRY GROUP King of Prussia, PA September 14, 1979 v
I Deposition of RICHARD R.
KEIMIG, held in offices of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Region I,
631 Park Avenue, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania at 2:15 p.m.
on the above date before Michael H.
Stephany, a Registered Professional Reporter of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania SPECIAL INQUIRY GROUP MEMBERS GEORGE T.
- FRAMPTON, JR.,
ESQ.
GEORGE RIVENBARK c
PETER SICILIA, JR.
k ROBERT BERNERO FOSTER court REPORTING SERVICE. INC.
1800 ARCHITECTS SLDG. - 117 S.177H ST.
[
PHILADELPHIA. PA. 19103 l
(als) so?.aero i
i i
t
KEIMIG 2
1 MR. FRAMPTON:
This is the deposi-2 tion being conducted by the U.S.
Nuclear Regulu-3 tory' Commission's Special Inquiry Group on Three 4
Mile Island at King of Prussia, Pennsylvania on 5
September 14, 1979 of Mr. Richard R.
Keimig, who 6
is with Region I of the NRC.
7 Present, in addition to Mr. Keimig 8
are Mr. Robert Bernero, Mr. George Rivenbark, Mr b
Peter Sicilia and Mr. George Frampton.
10 RICHARD R.
KEIMIG, having been 11 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
12 EXAMINATION 13 BY MR. FRAMPTON:
14 Q
Mr. Keimig, I believe you received a letter 15 dated August 28, 1979 from Mr. Rogovin detailing the 16 purpose of this deposition, the rights that you have 17 and the po.ssibility that the information contained in 18 the deposition may become public or available to other 19 people; is that correct?
20 A
That is correct.
=b'-
21 O
Have you read that letter and do you understand 22 it?
l 23 A
Yes, I do.
24 MR. FRAMPTON:
Off the record.
25 (Discussion off the record.)
FOSTER COURT R E PO R TIN G SERvlCE. INC
l KEIMIG 3
1{
BY MR. FRAMPTON:
2 g
Mr. Keimig, when were you first employed by the 3
NRC?
l 1
4 A
In June of 1972.
5 g
Have you been at Region I since-that time?
G A
Yes.
i 7
O' What is your present position?
8 A
I am presently Chief of Reactor Project Section 9
Number One.
10 g
Did you hold that position at the time of the 11 accident at Three Mile Island?
12 A
Yes, I did.
13 g
I believe that you have testified or been inter-14 viewed in connection with this matter on two occasions 15 ; previously; once by the I and E Inspectors who conduct-16 ed the accident enforcement investigation and once by 17 staff members of the President's Commission on Three 18 Mile Island; is that correct?
19 A
That is correct.
20 g
Have you taken a look at the transcript of those 21 two interviews?
22 A
I have not read the transcript of the interview s
4 23 by the I and E Group.
I have read the transcript from l
the President's Commission on the accident at Three Mile 24 25 Island.
u
(
l rosven count arrontino scavics.isc
KEIMIG 4
1 O
Is that deposition substantially accurate?
2 A
Yes, it is.
3 g
I believe, according to your previous testimony '
4 that you learned about the incident at about 7:50 a.m.
5 on March 28, 1979; is thac right?
6 A
That's correct.
7 G
Can you describe what you did at that time?
8 A
I was entering the building and was met by the 9
Branch Secretary who had been directed to tell me that 10 there was an emergency at Three Mile Island and that 11 there was a telephone conversation ongoing in Mr. George 12 Smith's office.
13 I proceeded to go to Mr. Smith's 14 office and enter into the conversation, i
15 G
Was that conversation on the Speaker Box?
16 A
Yes, it was.
It was a conversation with, I be-17 lieve the Unit 2 Control Room supervisor.
18 G
Do you recall what the substance of that conver-19 sation was before it was broken off?
e 20 A
Basically the supervisor was relating to us the
~'
21 events that had occurred'up to that point and the con-l 22 dition of the plant at that time.
23 G
Nere you then assigned any role with respect to 24
(
responding to the incident?
I l
25 A
Well, when the Incident Respond Center was l
I FOSTER COURT REPORTING SE RVIC E. INC l
l
KEIMIG 5
1 activated upstairs in the conference room, we then re-2 initiated the communication with the Plant that we had 3
lost in attempting to transfer the call from Mr. Smith's 4
office to the Incident Respond Center.
5 G
Who activated the Incident Respond Center?
G A
I believe it was Mr. Brunner or Mr. Grier, I 7
don't know.
I was down in Mr. Smith's office at the 8
time.
9 G
And you went upstairs to the Incident Respond 10 Center?
11 A
Yes, I did.
12 O
What did you do there?
13 A
Well, after we re-established our communication 14 with the Plant, I guess I started assembling some ref-15 erence material; plant FSAR's technical specifica-16 tions, things of that sort.
17 G
Was a decision made at about that time to send 18 a group of people to the site?
19 A
Very shortly after the Incident Respond Center
~
20 was activated, we made a decision to dispatch several 21 inspectors to the site.
22 O
Was that pursuant to the Region's emergency plan 23 or was that simply a decision to have people go there 24 and be on site to report back?
25 A
Are you asking whether we deliberately sent FOSTER COURT REPORTING SE RVICE, INC l
KEIMIG 1
people to the site in response to the Emergency Respond 2
Plan?
3 0
Right.
4 A
Yes, I believe it was in response to the Emer-5 gency Respond Plan requirements.
6 g
I mean did somebody get out the emergency plcn 7
a'nd say "Section so and so of the plan provides for the 8
Site Teams so we should get together a Site Team," or 9
do you recall what the thinking was that led up to the 10 decision to send some people there?
11 A
No, I don't recall.
I didn't specifically look 12 at the Incident Respond Plan, but somebody else may 13 have.
14 0
Were you f amiliar with the Emr Jency Plan or 15 Incident Respond Plan?
16 A
Yes.
17 4
But you don' t recall somebody pulling that proce-18 dure and running down the things that had to be done, 19 so far as your own recollection.is concerned?
20 A
As far as my own recollection, no.
{~
21 G
Who made the decision to send people to the site; 22 do you know' 23 A
I gue s it was a joint decision.
24 0
And do you recall who selected the people who 25 would go?
FOSTER COURT REPORTING $ERVICE. INC s,
,s g
KEIMIG 7
1 A
Yes, I selected those from Reactor Operations 2
that we dispatched to the site.
3 g
And somebody else selected health-physics people?
4 A
That's correct.
5 g
Who was that?
6 A
I believe 'it was George Smith.
7 O-You selected Mr. Higgins and did you at that 8
time also select Mr. Baunack?
9 A
Yes.
l 10 0
I understand that Mr. Haverkamp was the principal 11 Project Inspector for TMI; is that correct?
12 A
Yes.
13 g
And you made a decision not to send him with the i
14 team, but rather to keep him here at Region I?
15 A
That's correct.
16 Q
That was your decision?
17 A
Yes.
18 0
What was that based on?
What was your thinking 10 there?
I
~
20 A
Mr. Haverkamp is probably the most familiar with 21 where reference materials are; files, records and I 22 thought that it would be better to have him here at i
23 least in the early stages of what appeared to be an 24 incident in order to benefit with his knowledge of the l
l 25 plant and records.
l FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 8
1 G
Did you choose Mr. Higgins and Mr. Baunack for 2
any particular reason, that you can recall?
3 A
Yes.
They are quite experienced and very quali-4 fied inspectors.
5 G
I have been told that the Emergency Plan itself 6
provides that if there is a site team sent in the event 7
of an emergency, that the project principal Project 8
Inspector usually goes with the Chief of that team.
9 Were you aware of that provision in the Plan at the 10 time people were picked to go?
11 A
Yes, I was.
12 G
Do you have any comment on why you decided that 13 that Plan shouldn't be followed?
14 A
Yes.
I considered that the two inspettors we 15 were sending were as well qualified to do what we ex-IG pected them to do once they got there, as Mr. Haverkamp 17 was and additionally considered that Mr. Haverkamp's 18 presence in the Regional Office would be more bsnefi-19 cial as opposed to having him at the site away from 20 the office.
(.
21 O
What was it specifically that you toped that he 22 could do here at Region I for you during that day?
23 A
. Provide us with a better insight into the systems 24 operation for that plant.
25 G
Okay.
Do you know whether somebody was assigned i
FOSTER COURT R E POR TING SERVICE, INC g
KEIMIG 9
1 to be Team Captain or Group Captain of the people who i
2 were sent down there first thing?
Was there a group l
3 leader assigned, to your knowledge?
4 L
I don't recall.
I 5
0 Who would have assigned somebody to be group i
6 leader if such an assignment had been made?
7 A'
Probably Mr. Grier.
8 G
Can you give us a very summary description of 9
your activities during that day, Wednesday?
10 A
Yes, I can.
I started collecting data that was 11 being communicated from the Plant in the hopes of put-12 ting it together in some fashior, that we could trans-13 mit the data to headquarters so thu. they would be e
14 aware of what the status of the Plant ses as we under-d 15 stood it.
Also I was engaged in answering telephone l
16 calls, reviewing systems and other reference materials 17 and other activities of that nature.
18 G
What did you understand that the role of the 19 first team that went down to the site was to be?
What 20 were they supposed to do when they got there?
g-L.
21 A
Their function was to communicate back to the 22 Regional Office the status of the Plant, the various 23 radiation monitoring levels radiation excuse me 24 monitoring readouts that were available at the Plant l
25 basically communicators of information between the FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
l KEIMIG 10 1
1 Plant and the Regional Office Headquarters.
2 O
In your mind did the people who went to the site i
3 on the morning of the first day have the authority or 4
were they suppose to exercise the authority of making 5
suggestions or recommendations or giving any instruc-6 tions to the Licensee?
7 A
Could you read the question back?
8 G
Let me break it up.
9 In your mind would it have been 10 appropriate for the people who went with the first 11 group to do more than simply observe and report back; 12 for example to make suggestions and recommendations to 13 the Licensee about Plant operations in the case of Mr.
14 Higgins?
15 A
No, it would not have'been appropriate.
16 0
Would it have been appropriate for suggestions 17 or recommendations to be made by anyone at NRC based on 18 the information being received, that is for people here 19 at Region I or people at headquarters in about these 20 data to have made such recommendations if they decided ks 21
- hat that was appropriate?
I 22 A
I don't believe it would have been appropriate i
23 for anyone to make any suggestions or recommendations, 24 primarily because these suggestions and recommendations 25 l could be translated by the Licensee to be direct orders!
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC i
4 KEIMIG 11 1
of the NRC.
2 O
Direct or indirect orders, at least, is that cor-3 rect?
4 A
That's right.
5 0
So in your mind the responsibility for handling 6
the Plant, being on the Licensee, it was not the proper 7
role of NRC personnel to either tell them what to do or 8
try to urge them in one direction or another; is that 9
a fair statement?
10 A
That's correct.
They are the people who are 11 most familiar with the Plant.
They have licensed 12 operators that NRC has examined and found competent to 13 operate the Plant; therefore they are in the best 14 situation to operate the Plant.
15 0
As you recall, what was the status of the Plant 16 that was reported to you when that first team got on 17 site and the inspectors got into the Unit 2 Control 18 Room?
What did they report back to you about the status 19 of the Plant?
20 A
My recollection is that the Plant was in a very
. {-
21 unstable condition.
22 O
Do you recall what the primary problem was as 23 they related it when they first got briefed on the 24 situation there?
25 A
Not precisely, no, I don't.
FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 12 1
G During that first day, Wednesday, did the in-1 2
spectors in the Unit 1, Unit 2 Control Rooms actually 1
3 function only as communicators or were they also giving 4
you and headquarters evaluations of what they were 5
seeing?
6 A
I would characterize what they did as giving 7
evaluations, yes.
8 G
Were they primarily responding to particular 9
questions that were being asked from here or from head-10 quarters or were they giving you a periodic update of 11 a list of parameters that they would undertake them-12 selves to determine?
13 A
Both.
Both.
They were responding to questions 14 from the Regional Office and from headquarters as well 15 as giving us periodic updates of various Plant para-16 meters.
i 17 G
Okay.
Do you recall at what time the lines from i
18 here to the site became tied into or one
~
19 of those lines became tied into s
20 A
I believe it was somewhere around late morning --
ks 21 maybe ten, eleven o' clock.
22 G
Is it your recollection that during the rest of 23 the day there was pretty much common communication be-24 tween at least one of the Control Rooms, Region I and 25 l
l rostem count nerontiNo senvicL. INC
KEIMIG 13 1
A Yes.
2 g
Now I believe late in the afternoon Mr. Grier 3
instructed you to proceed to the site; is that correct?,
4 A
That's correct.
5 0
What instructions did he give to you as to what 6
your role at the site was going to be?
7 K
He wanted me to coordinate.the activities of the 8
Inspection and Enforcement people that we had dispatch-9 ed to the site earlier and to receive any other NRC 10 people that would come later.
11 g
I believe that your arrived at the site at 12 around 9:00 in the evening; is that right?
13 A
That's correct.
14 0
When you got there, were you the senior NRC 15 person present?
16 A
Yes, I was.
17 0
Did you assume control over the NRC contingent 18 3
that was there at the time?
19 A
Well, they were scattered about, so assuming 20
{-
control of the people that we had on site was rather 21 difficult.
22 O
Did you in fact know exactly who was there when 23 you arr'ived?
24 A
Yes, I did.
o5 t
0 How did you find out where they were or go about e
POSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 14 1
trying to determine where they were?
2 A
Well, I met with at least one at the Observation 3
Center where I initially went upon arriving at the site.
4 0
What was Mr. Stohr?
5 A
That's Mr. Stohr, that's correct.
He knew where 6
the people were and I assumed that from what I had 7
1 earned before I left the office that the other people 8
were in the Control Room and I also called Mr. Grier 9
or Mr. Brunner, I don't recall which, from the site and 10 learned that Mr. Higgins and Mr. Gallina were in Gover-11 nor Thornburg's office giving a briefing of some sort.
12 G
That was the first time you learned that they 13 had gone over to the State House?
14 A
That's correct.
15 O
Did you get a briefing on Plant status when you 16 arrived at the Observation Center?
17 A
Yes, I did.
18 G
And from whom did you get that information?
19 A
Mr. Herbein, the Met Ed Vice-President of 20 Generation.
21 G
Do you recall approximately how many people were 22 at the Observation Center when you got there, inside?
{
23 Was there a large number of people there?
24 A
Are you referring to Met Ed people?
25 G
Total number of people.
j FO$TER COURT HEPORTING S E m b lC E. INC.
15 KEIMIG 1
A There were a large number of people.
~
2 g
I mean excluding press people, Met Ed or B and W 3
people or other people associated with either the NRC 4
or the Company?
5 A
Yes.
There were quite a large number of people 6
at the Observation Center.
7 g-How many?
Could you give a rough estimate?
8 A
At least 25 that were involved with responding 9
to the incident.
10 0
Then I believe that you went on site about 11:00 11 p.m.
and made your way to the Unit 1 Control Room; is 12 I that right?
13 A
That's correct.
14 O
And you stayed there until.about 3:30 in the 15 morning?
16 A
That's correct.
17 G
What happened during that period of time, the 18 period of time that you were at.the Unit 1 Control 19 Room?
~
20 A
With respect to what?
{
21 G
What'do you recall about your own activities?
22 A
Oh, I had a brief conversation with the Unit 1 23 Plant superintendent.
24 G
That's Mr. Seelinger?
25 as to the Plant status, also A
That's correct FC$TER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
16 KEIMIG 1
the events that took place early in the day and I spoke 2
with several other people in the Unit 1 Control Room 3
as well as people who were in the Shift Foreman's of-4 fice.
I reviewed some of the radiation monitoring 5
readout equipment that was in the Unit 1 Control Room 6
which was being used to monitor the radiation levels 7
around the Plant.
I spoke to our inspectors, both in 8
Unit 1 and Unit 2.
9 G
Were there inspectors manning both Control Rooms 10 at that time?
11 A
Yes, there were.
12 O
Do you recall who was in Unit 2?
/
13 A
I believe Mr. Baunack and Mr. Raymond were in 14 Unit 2.
15 G
Had you sent Mr. Raymond to the site during the 16 day?
17 A
Yes, I did.
It was about 10:00 in the morning, 18 I believe, when he left.
19 G
Do you recall whether at that time Unit 1 was 20 in contact with Region I on the telephone?
kJ 21 A
Yes, t h e y w e r e.-
There was an open line back to 22 the Regional Office.
23 G
During the period you were in the Unit 1 Control l
24 Room that night, did you make_any further reports back t
25 to Region I yourself, that you can recall?
1 e
FO5TER COURT DI E PO R TIN G SERVICE, INC
l KEIMIG 17 l
1 A
I probably did.
I don't specifically recall.
2 You don't have a recollection of it?
3 A
No, I do not.
I don't have a recollection of a 4
lot of things that went on that morning.
5 g
Before you went to bed that night, did you set 6
up any kind of a rotation of people to man the two 7
Control Rooms or had that already been set up in some 8
way?
9 A
It was generally established by the Inspectors 10 that we had there.
It was rather difficult to set up 11 any formal rotation because Mr. Higgins and Mr. Gallina 12 were not present and I wasn't sure what activities theyi 13 would be involved in the next day, so I decided to wait 14 until the following morning.
15 0
Did you make any determination about whether 16 more personnel were needed or whether any other kinds 17 of assistance were needed from Region I at that time?
18 A
At that time I don't recall making such deter-10 mination.
20 0
Were there plans to send more people the next day
^k.
l 21 from Region I?
In other words what was the anticipatioh 22 about what the site contingent would look like on
%3 Thursday and Friday as of midnight on Wednesday?
24 A
I can't answer that because I was not here in 25 Region 1.
FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE, INC t
KEIMIG 18 1
O I'm sorry, the Unit on the site.
2 A
I did not, at the time I arrived on the site or 3
before I left the site the following morning, make an to how many other people we would need.
4 assessment as 5
Again, I thought I would wait the following morning to 6
find out what the Plant status was and what kind of 7
activities would be expected of us.
8 g
Was the reactor itself considered by you to be D
stable, at that point?
i 10 A
No, it was not.
11 O
What was your assessment as to the operational 12 situation?
13 A
I thought that the Plants were doing all they 14 could to try to get the Plant in a stable condition.
15 S
But they had not yet succeeded?
16 A
That's correct.
17 g
Even though they had --
18 A
To my assessment.
19 0
Even though they had the reactor collant pump going again and they had re-established forced cooling?
20
{
21 A
Yes.
22 g
What about from a radiological relief point of l
l f
23 view?
What was your assessment of the situation from 24 that point of view as of, let's say midnight on Wednes 25 day?
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC
l KEIMIG 19 1
A I didn't consider the Plant to be in any immi-2 nent threat to the health and safety of the general 3
public at the time.
4 0
What was your assessment of the future possibil-5 ities?
You said you didn't regard the Plant itself as 6
being in a stable condition.
Was there any discussion 7
of whether this posed possibility of continuing or 8
futurr increased releases?
Was there any discussion 9
of possible need for evacuation on the evening of 10 Wednesday or early morning of Thursday?
11 A
My recollection is that there was no talk'about 12 evacuation during that time period.
The radiological 13 conditions were not sufficient to warrant it.
14 0
Did you learn, before you left the site that 15 night, that a group would be coming from NRR in Wash-16 ington the next day or did you not know that until the 17 morning -- following morning?
18 A
I guess I understood that before I left the site 10 the morning of the 29th.
g-20 0
Prior to the time that Mr. Vollmer and his group L
21 showed up, did you have any understanding as to what 22 they were going to be doing at the site, what their U
role would be?
l 4
A They were there to further assess the conditions i
o5 of the Plant from a NRR viewpoint and Mr. Vollmer was FOSTER COURT R E PO R TIN G SERylCE. INC l
I
KEIMIG 20 1
to be the senior site NRC site representative.
2 O
So you understood that when that team came that' 3
vollmer was supposed to be the senior person for the 4
entire NRC group on the site?
5 A
That's correct.
6 O
Do you recall who told you that that was going 7
to be the case?
8 A
I believe it was Mr. Grier.
9 O
Did that reflect conversations that he had with 10 headquarters in Bethesda, do you know?
11 A
Again, I can't really answer that, because I 12 wasn't here.
I am sure there were convercations with 13
- Bethesda, and that's how he came to know Mr.
14 Vollmer would be on site the following day.
15 0
Did Mr. Grier tell you or did anybody else tell 16 you that there had been some conversations or agree-17 ment between I and E and NRR which were resolved by 18 saying "All right, NRR people are going to come and tak e 19 over the whole operation on the site?"
20 Do you recall being told anything 21 like that?
22 A
I recall Mr. Grier saying that there were dis-23 cussions between I and E and NRR and I guess I surmised 24 that as a result of those discussions it was thought to 25 send people from NRR to the site directly to better FOSTEa COURT REPORTING SERVICE. ONC
KEIMIG 21 1
communicate with NRR, the specific things that NRR 2
would be interested in.
l 3
g Okay.
So you understood that when you -- sorry --
4 when Mr. Vollmer arrived the next day that in effect
{
5 you would be reporting to him and your people would be 6
responsible to him through you or did you feel that 7
you were still basically reporting back here to Mr.
8 Grier in Region I?
8 A
I guess I looked a t my function at the site as 10 a support to Mr. Vollmer and whatever he thought was 11 necessary that we do.
We also reported back to the 1P, Region I office.
13 0
Can you summarize your activities on Thursday
(
14 and Friday, the 29th and 30th of March?
15 A
Yes. Generally' coordinating the activities of 16 the I and E Inspectors that were on site.
17 On Thursday, after Mr. Vollmer ar-18 rived -- Mr. Vollmer and his group arrived at the 19 Observation Center, I participated in a briefing of the 20
{;
group.
21 0
What time was that, approximately?
22 A
I would say that was probably around 11:00 a.m.
23 Also on Thursday I had to make l
94 preparations for some congressmen who were to arrive 25 at the airport sometime that day.
Their schedule kept FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 22 1
changing.
I picked them up at the airport and brought 2
them back to the site for a briefing by Met Ed.
3 g
Who instructed you to undertake this responsi-4 bility?
5 A
I believe it was Mr. Grier.
6 0
Do you recall that you did that?
7 A
Yes, I did.
8 4
Was that congressmen and senators?
9 A
Yes.
10 0
Did you drive these people back to or escort 11 them back to the Observation Center?
12 A
Yes, I did, in the company of Mr. Raymond.
13 G
Both of you went out to the airport?
14 A
Yes.
We were instructed to provide them with an 15 update of Plant status and~ conditions around the Plant IG and Mr. Raymond had just come off shift in the Control 17 Room, so I considered it best to use him, since he had 18 the latest information.
19 0
Had he been on in the Unit 2 Control Room all 20 night?
By that I mean the early morning hours?
21 A
Yes.
He was on at least until when I l e'f t,
22 wh'-: is approximately 3:30 in the morning -- 3:00 to 23 3:30 somewhere around there.
I don't recall if he left.
24 the site then or if he remained there.
25 0
I believe Mr. Gallina and Mr. Higgins who were l
FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 23 I
called for another briefing at the State House on 2
Thursday afternoon, weren't they?
3 A
That's correct.
4 G
You and Mr. Raymond were going -- or were on 5
route to the airport or back from the airport?
6 A
That's correct.
7
'O' Who was covering the Unit 2 Control Room, from 8
an operations point of view during the day on Thursday?
9 A
I believe it was Mr. Baunack.
10 0
Can you continue with your activities on Thurs-11 day and Thursday evening and Friday?
12 A
Okay.
I received some additional support from 13 the Regional Office that morning and again the exact 14 time escapes me, but it was late in the morning.
It 15 was Mr. Haverkamp, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Beckman, when they 16 arrived we brought them, as best we could, up to date 17 with the Plant status and scheduled them to be on a 18 shift and in the Control Room -- Unit 2 Control Room.
le G
Was their arrival pursuant to a request for 20 help from you?
(
21 A
I don't recall if I had made that request at 22 that point or not.
U G
In other words, you said that you were going to 24 wait until Thursday morning to make an assessment of 25 what you needed and whether you needed anymore people 1
I l
l FOSTER COURT R E POR TING SERVICE. INC
]
24 KEIMIG 1
when it got to Thursday morning?
Did you make an assess-2 ment that you needed more people?
What was your ex-3 pectation then about additional I and E people?
4 A
'Yes.
When I learned that we were -- in addition 5
to being communicators from the Unit 1 and 2 Control 6, Room, we would have to participate in briefings for P
7' state' and local officials is well as congressmen and 8
senators.
I could see inat we could not complete all 9
those activities with the number of people that we had 10 at the site.
That's why I say, I don't recall if I 11 had gotten around to making the request for additional
[
12 people or whether they told me additional people were 13 already coming up.
f~ "
14 0
What about Thursday afternoon and Thursday 15 evening?
16 A
Thursday afternoon I participated in greeting 17 the congrecsmen an6 bringing them back to the observa-18 tion Center as well as the briefing which Met Ed con-19 ducted.
There was a second group of congressmen who 20 were briefed just after the first group left.
I was l
21 involved with some discussions with those people, also 22 trying to determine what survey teams -- radiological 23 survey teams that we had and what the status of addi-24 tiomal help in the area of health-physics personnel was.
25 That continued on to Thursday.
FOSTER COURT R E PO R TIN G SERVICE. INC
1 KEIMIG 25 1
(Short recess taken.)
2 O
I think we were talking about your activities 3
on Thursday, late afternoon and evening. Can you finish 4
up that time-period?
5 A
I think I already did.
6 O
Did you return to the Control Room of Unit 1 or 7
2 during Thursday at all?
8 A
No.
9 0
Okay.
10 A
We were working out of our mobile environmental 11 monitoring van.
That was our command post.
12 O
That's at the Observation Center?
13 A
That was at the parking lot in the Observation 14 Center, yes.
15 G
Now what about Friday, March 30?
16 A
My activities on Friday were basically the same 17 as they had been on the previous day.
Same type of 18 activitiet.
19 G
You were in the Observation Center area on
^
w 20 Friday?
L 21 A
Yes.
22 O
Do you recall from approximately what time in 23 the morning until approximately what time in the even-24 l
ing?
25 A
Probably somewhere from about 7:30 in the FOSTER COURT R E PORTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 26 1
morning until just after-midnight.
2 O
And it was Friday that Mr. Denton's group ar-3 rived from Washington; correct?
4 A
That's correct.
5 g
Do you recall what you were told about his role 6
when he arrived, what that would be?
7 X
As I recall he was to be the spokesman for NRC 8
at the site in all activities.-
9 G
Did you also learn that he was to assume command 10 of all of the NRC resources at the site?
11 A
Yes.
Yes.
12 G
That would include I and E people as well as 13 NRR people?
14 A
That's correct.
15 Well, one other thing we did do on IG Friday is we received several inspectors ' rom other 17 regions, both reactar operations inspectors and HP in-18 spectors and assign them to various shifts and. formal-19 ized a shift rotatir
'ichedule.
~
20 G
So you continued to have people who were in each
{
21 Control Room on a 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> basis?
22 A
Yes.
23 O
To whom did they report from the Control Rooms?
l 24 A
I don't understand the question.
25 They reported to me.
FOSTER COURT R E POR TIN G SERVICE. INC
..KEIMIG 27 1
6 From an administrative point of view, who was 2
their.e.upervisor on the site?
3 A
I was.
4 0
You were?
5 A
Yes.
6 O
Did you remain a senior IE person on site up 7
until the end of Friday?
8 A
Yes, I did.
9 0
What about Saturday and Sunday?
Can you briefly 10 describe what you did on Saturday and Sunday?
11 A
Basically the same as we have been doing.
We 12 did establish some procedure review groups in coordina-13 tion with additional NRR people who were on the site 14 to start reviewing the Licensee's procedures for re-15 covering the Plant to some stable condition.
16 O
So there continued to be an I. and E Inspector in 17 each Control Room on a 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> day rotation?
18 A
Yes.
~
l 19 G
Did NRR also have some kind of a watch schedule 20 set up of NRR people in each Control Room, do you re-
<-k.
21 member?
22 A
I think the NRR people, they were on a watch M
schedule but they were there primarily to review pro-24 cedures and the Licensee's activities as opposed to 25 communicating Plant status information which was the FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 23 1
I and E's role at the time.
2 O
Did there come a time when role of NRC people 3
on the site changed from simply being reporting to a 4
more active environment in Licensee decision-making
~
5 and if so when did that change occur?
6 A
Tc the best of my recollection it probably 7
s' tarted on Friday when we established some procedure 8
review groups between I and E and NRR.
0 4
Was that after the Denton contingent arrived?
10 A
I believe it was or at the same time as Mr.
11 Denton's arrival.
12 O
Let me go back and ask you about a couple of 4
13 specific pieces of information.
14 Do you recall on the evening 15 Wednesday, that either Region I or Headquarters were IG trying to get incore thermocouples readings.from the 17 site?
I am talking about, now, after you arrived at 1
18 the site.
j 10 A
I believe we were getting incore thermocouple 20 readings late in the afternoon of the 28th.
b.
21 G
And that's while you were still at Region I?
22 A
That's correct.
23 G
Was that in response to questions from head-24 quarters to the Control Room -- Unit 2 Control Room?
25 Do you remember who was asking for those readings?
FOETER COURT R E POR TING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 29 1
A Not precisely, no.
It may have been someone 2
at headquarters or someone there in the Region.
I 3
can't recall.
4 Q
But you recollect that some readings were being 5
reported back?
6 A
Yes, sir.
7
'([
Do you remember whether those readings were 8
characterized in any way as being reliable or unre-9 liable?
10 A
Ey whom?
11 G
By whoever was reporting them to you or to head-12 quarters from the site.
13 A
As I recall along with our inspectors who were,
14 reporting the readings, they were not let me re-15 phrase that -- when they reported the readings to us, 16 they also told us that the Licensee did not b'elieve 17 those readings.
18 G
Do you remember why it was communicated that the 10 Licensee didn't believe them?
k-20 A
Well, the readings were exceptionally high, as 21 I recall and some of them were so high that the compu-22 ter printout indicated no reading which would have in-23 dicated possibly a malfunction with the incore ther-24 mocouples themselves.
i 25 0
Do you remember any feedback, either from Region i
FOSTER COUHT R E PORTING SERVICE. INC
- \\
KtIMIG 30
!)
t1 those,pemper-1 I or from Headquarters to the plant that 2
aturo readings ought to be more closely scrutinized or 3
the Licer. see shouldn't shrug them off or disbelieve 1
i 4
them.
Do you remember any kind of feedback of that j
5 sort?
9 0
6 A..
I Delieve I do, except I can't remember the 7
s'pecifics.
8 G
Do you remember anything else on that subject, 9
the subject of thermocouple readings on Wednesday;or 10 their believability?
11 A
Only that the readings were somewhat incon-12 sistent.
13 0
Tn what respect; do you remember?
14 A.
Well, as I mentioned before, some of them were 15 not reading out.
Others were and they appeared to be 1G high.
Some others were reading low.
17 G
Do you remember other communications with 18 Region I or headquarters to the site relative to the 19 core being uncovered or the possibility that it was 20 uncovered?
21 A.
Yes, that was discussed, to my recollection, l
22 during the day.
l 23 0
'W a s it discussed with the site?
24 A.
Yes.
25 n
Can you tell us what you recall about those FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
\\
a 31 KEIMIG
's I
conversations?
2 A
I just recall them in a general way. I can't 3
recall any specifics, but certainly that was in every-4 body's mind, that the core could have been uncovered 5
for some period of time.
6 G
Do you know whether that concern was communi-
~
7 cated ta the site, specifically to the Licensee?
8 A
I believe it was.
9 O
Was that a concern about whether the core might 10 have been uncovered previously or a concern that it 11 might still be uncovered and they should worry about 12 that?
13 A
As I remember it, it was a concern that the 14 core had been -- might have been uncovered previously.
15 G
Do you remember anything more about the sub-16 stance of those conversations?
17 A
No, I don't.
18 G
Did you, while you were at the site on either 19 Thursday or Friday have any direct communications with 20 headquarters yourself from the observation center?
21 A
I can't recall.
I made and received many many 22 phone calls.
I can't remember them.
23 0
So when you say you can't recall, you don't 24 know whether you did or didn't?
It's not that I think 25 you probably didn't FOSTER COURT R E PORTING $1HVICL INf.
ImIMIG 32 1
A That's correct.
2 O
Do you recall being aware at anytime on Thurs-3 day of the degassing of the system or the problems 4
that were being had with the makeup tanks or with 5
periodic releases?
Were you aware of that problem 6
building up during Thursday?
7 i
Yes.
8 4
Do you recall what was communicated back to 9
Region I or to headquarters about that process on 10 Thursday or Thursday night?
11 A
Most of that communication was coming directly 12 from our inspectors in the Control Room.
I was en-13 gaged in other activities and we were not in the 14 communication link between the Control Room and --
15 of the Region I office or the Headquarters office.
IG We got our information by calling our inspectors in 17 the Control Room and also by debriefing with them when 18 they came off the ship.
19 G
How could you get Plant status information to 20 relay to -- say Mr. Vollmer and the two congressional 21 delegations that you briefed on Thursday?
Would you 22 get that from your inspectors in the Plant, as neces-l 23 j
sary?
l 24 A
Yes, as necessary, and, as I mentioned earlier, 25 the briefing of the congressmen and senators was given l
FOSTER COURT R E PO R TIN G SERvlCE. INC 4
KEIMIG 33
'l by Bill Raymond, who was just previous to that time in 2
the Control Room.
3 G
In the transcript of the interview that you did 4
with I and E, there is a reference to a management meet-5 ing that NRC people had Met Ed concerning cost saving 6
actions and their cash flow problem and I believe the 7
time frame referred to is December of 1978 or June of 8
1979.
Can you tell me what that's about?
Does that 9
have to do with the maintenance cutback or a cutback in 10 the maintenance budget by Met Ed at or around that 11 period of time?
12 A
As I recall, we had a routine management meetingi 13 which is a part of our inspection program with Met Ed 14 somewhere around that time.
15 0
You will have to help me by describing what a 16.
routine management meeting is, since I am not familiar 17 with that.
18 A
Okay.
Routine management meeting is our -- our 19 inspection program requires tha,t periodically, like 20 k.
perhaps once every three years we get Licensee manage-i l
21 ment,into the office and discuss upper management 22 and discuss with them the results of our inspect. ion 23 program for the preceeding period of time and ar.y pro-24 blems that we may have or potential problems that we 25 may see arising and also at that meeting'we ask the FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
-KEIMIG 34
- 1 Licensee of any particular problems that we might have 2
in regard to the Plant and its operation -- relative 3
to our inspection program.
4 It was at that meeting that Met Ed 5
told us that we were having a cash flow problem, and 6
that some activities were to be postponed because of 7
tbst problem.
The precise activities, I don't recall.
8 G
Do you remember whether that meeting would have 9
been recorded in any notes or memoranda which would be 10 in the files here?
11 A
Yes, there was a report of that meeting.
12 O
There is a report of that meeting?
13 A
That's correct.
14 3
A NRC report?
15 A
That's correct.
16 0
We may have that, but I don't believe I have seen 17 it.
Would that be available for us to 18 A
It is in the docket room.
I believe it's 7902 19 for Unit 1 and 7903 for Unit 2.
The numbers may be in-20 correct, but it's somewhere around those numbers.
.~L.
21 0
Did you attend that meeting?
22 A
Yes, I did.
U O
Do you recall who the upper management people 24 were from Met Ed, offhand?
25 A
hit was Mr. Herbein, who was vice-president of FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVtCE. INC
.m
KEIMIG 35
'l Generation, Mr. Miller, who was the Site Superintendent
~
2 Mr. Logan, who was the Unit 2 Plant Superintendent and 3
there were several other people of Met Edison there.
4 Their names are in the Inspection Report.
5 MR. FRAMPTON:
Let's go off the rec-6 ord for a minute.
7 (Short recess taken.)
8 BY MR. FRAMPTON:
9 Mr. Keimig, during the break.we obtained the 10 report of a management meeting you held with Met Ed 11 management on February 9, 1979 which reflects only that 12 certain lic'ensee items and concerns were discussed.
In 13 addition to that you have a couple of pages of persona,1 14 notes of that meeting; is that correct?
15 A
That's correct.
16 0
And those notes reflect then,.among a number of 17 items, the Licensee management discussed with you a 18 couple of quote sensitive areas unquote.
19 Were 'those areas that they might 20 need to improve in?
i 21 A
Yes.
22 O
Thos areas were health-physics and security, ac-Z3 cording to your notes?
24 A
That's correct.
25 0
Your notes also reflect that they expressed FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC.
KEIMIG 36 1
concern about NRC release of the Licensee Regulatory 2
Evaluation Reports without prior notice to them and 3
concern about the overly burdensome paperwork require-4 me,nts imposed on them by NRC?
5 A
That's correct.
6 O
Then your notes also reflect that Mr. Herbein 7
mentioned that due to the high interest rates, captial 8
investment was a problem for Met Ed, GPU and he mention-9 ed that both Plants, bot'h Units and Unit were going 10 to be refueled during 1980; is that correct?
11 A
That is correct.
12 Presumably, as I understand it at least the con-13 nection between those two comments, is that cash would 14 have to be generated for any Plant modifications that 15 might be required during the refueling down-time; is 10 that correct?
17 A
That is correct.
18 MR. FRAMPTOM:
Thank you very much.
10 EXAMINATION:
20 BY MR. RIVENBARK:
L'-
21 G
Mr. Keimig, I'm going to go over some questions 22 that will fill in some of the information that Mr.
23 Frampton was asking for.
i 24 Our first area is going to deal 25 with trying to ascertain your prior knowledge of the
~
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC t
1 KEIMIG 2-
'l Emergency Respond Plans.
2 You indicated that you were familiar l
3 with the Region I Respond Plans.
Were you familiar with 4
the headquarters Respond Plans at the time of the inci--
5 dent?
Had you read that plan?
6 A
No, I did not.
7 O'
Were you aware of the existence of an EMT and a 8
headquarters IRACT Team prior to the incident that is 9
aware of an emergency plan that described an EMT and --
10 A
I was aware of the IRACT Team and I guess gen-11 erally aware of some sort of emergency monitoring team.
12 It's my recollection that the emergency plan for head-13 quarters had undergone changes just prior to March 28.--
r 14 were undergoing changes for quite some time as far as 15 facility and the actual plan was concerned, so I don't 16 know the specifics on the headquarters plan.
17 0
Did you participate in any of the Emergency 18 Respond drills held in the NRC --
10 A
Yes, I did.
l 20 0
Where?
k 21 A
In Region I here.
22 g
When?
23 A
'If I recall it was after we revised our Emergency 24 Respond Plan, so that would have been the last half of 25
'78, I believe.
FOSTER COURT R E PORTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 38
~
1 0
Can you tell me what you fid in the drill?
2 A
I was'on the receiving end of information from 3
the licensee -- fictitious licensee.
4 0
That means that you were in I and E beadquarters?
5 A
No, in Region I's incident respond center.
6 0
Were you ever in a drill that was coordinated i
7 with headquarters?
i 8
A I don't believe so, no.
O g
Okay.
10 A
By that you mean that headquarters participated 11 in?
12 g
Yes.
13 A
No.
14 0
Yes, the respond drill that headquarters also 15 participated in with the Region --
16 A
Not to my recollection.
17 0
The next area.is going to deal with the role of 18 headquarters in a region office in managing and di-19 recting response.
20 Did headquarters direct or instruct
,L 21 the region headquarters during the incident?
Was their did they exercise a management function 22 management M
of dire'cting and instructing the region, telling them j
24 what to do during the incident?
25 A
As far as my involvement that first day, I don't l
l FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. $NC
KEIMIG 39 1
recall such instructions; however I was engaged in many 2
activi. ties that drew me away from the Incident Respond 3
Center,for periods of time during which instructions 4
of that type m'ay have been given by headquarters.
I am 5
not personally aware of that.
6 S
Did the Region I IRACT direct or instruct the 7
dn Site Inspection Team after they went to the site?
8 A
Before and after, yes.
9 0
Can you give me an example of who and an example
~
i 10 of an instruction or direction?
11 A
A specific direction or instruction, no, I can't.
12 In general, before they left, they were told to, when 13 they arrived at the site, to enter the Plant and get 14 themselves in a position where they would best be able 15 to communicate information to us and after arriving at 1
l 16 the site when we were in constant communications with 17 them, we were basically giving them instructions on l
18 what Plant parameters we wanted to look at, we.needed 19 update information on, et cetera.
That's the best I 20 can do.
(_
21 0
Did headquarters direct or instruct the On Site 22 Inspection Team?
M A
Yes, they did, same manner as I just described; 24 that the Regional Office did after they had arrived on l
25 site.
FOSTER COURT R E PORTING SERVICE SNC
KEIMIG 40
- 1 O
Were you personally aware of whether the in-2 structions were coming from the headquarters EMT Group 3
or whether they were coming from the headquarters 4
IRACT Group?
5 A
No, I was not aware of where they were coming 6
from.
7 g
Did your perception of how we were supposed to incident occurred diffelr 8
conduct the response before the 9
from how they conducted the response during the first 10 day in any substantive way?
11 A
Yes.
My perception was that tlee Regional Office 12 would handle the response activities up to the point 13 where they had made an assessment as to how serious the 14 incident was.
In actuality when'the incident occurred, 15 I think that headquarters got into the activity before l
16 the Regional Office had made an assessment.
17 Q
Any other substantive differences?
18 A
I guess in the area of communications, I thought 19 that the communications would have been better.
20 0
What was the difference in the way the communica-21 tions were handled and the way that you thought that 22 they would have been?
23 A
Prior to headquarters getting into the direct i
24 communication chain with the site, we had been providing 25 information to the people in the IRACT -- rather than FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERvlCE INC
KEIMIG 41 l
.I waiting for this information to be provided by us, they 2
were asking us to gain additional information and data 3
which made it extremely difficult to communicate with 4
people on the site and also with headquarters personnel.
5 This continued most of Wednesday and Thursday, a l.,o.
6 g
This communication difficulty was because the 7
people at the site were so occupied with responding to 8
the questions?
9 A
That's correct.
10 0
Moving now, to your personal role at the site, 11 when Mr. Grier asked you to go to the site and he told 12 you you woul.d coordinate the I and E activities at the 13 site, did he give you any other reasons for sending 14 you down there, like for instance did he tell you that 15 it was because of communication problems at the site 16 that needed to be straightened out?
Did it tie in with 17 a Moseley call about -- just before 4:00, to your knowl 18 edge?
19 A
I have no recollection of that.
It may well have
~
20 been prompted by a telephone call from Mr. Moseley, but 21 I don't recall Mr. Grier discussing that with me.
22 G
After you arrived at the site, did you get any M
personal instructions from the headquarters?
24 A
I guess I must have, but I don't recall what 25 they were, specifically.
FOSTER COURT R E POR TING SERVICE. INC
KEIMI'G 42
'l G
Region I?
2 A
Well, definitely received instructions from 3
Region I,
but other than what I have already addressed, 4
I really can't remember any other specific instructions 5
at that time.
6 G
In your role at the site, did you give instruc-7 t' ions to the On Site Inspection Team?
Did you ask them 8
to take specific action?
9 A
Generally, yes.
10 G
Can you give me an example?
11 A
Well, establishing the shift rotation schedule, 12 who would be on what shift.
I recall specifically i
13 communicating with Jim Higgins Thursday, I believe it 14 that Mr. Gallina should go to the governor's was to 15 press briefing.
There were many things of that nature.
16 G
bad you give him any instructions as to priori-17 ties as to how they should be handling the questions 18 and requests for information?
19 A
No.
I expected that they would answer the ques-
- {
20 tions as truthfully as they could from their knowledge 21 of being in the Plant.
22 G
The problem being that they had so much to do 23 that they were having to make decisions as to whether to answer some questions er whether to do something 24 25 else, and I was wondering if maybe they talked to you FOSTER COURT RL PORTING SERVICE, INC
<i
KEIMIG 43 1
and asked you for guidance as to how to cope with their 2
problems?'
3 A
They may have, but I don't specifically recall.
4 0
Were you ever asked to concur -- while you were 1
5 there during the first five days to concur in any 6
actions taken by the Licensee?
t 7
A No.
8 O
Did the people from the shift as they left, al-9 ways comply and debrief whoever was the acting lead 10 person -- the acting I and E lead person?
11 A
To the best of my recollection, yes, they did.
12 It may not have been everyone who was on the shift, but 13 at least one person from the shift and again there may 14 have been times where somebody missed.
I can't recall.
15 G
But you felt that you knew what was the status 16 of the situation in the Plant as well as could be ex-17 pected, based on the knowledge that was available to 18 these OIT people in the Control Room and other areas of 19 the Plant?
20 A
Yes.
We didn't rely solely on their debriefing
{
21 when they got off shift.
We also spoke with them durinc 22 the time they were on shift by telephone.
23 O
Moving to another subject of the Department of 24 Energy and our relationship to them, while you were at 25 the site, were you aware of DOE present at the site --
l roster covRT R E PORTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 44 1
in the area?
2 A
Yes.
3 0
Were you aware of what they were doing?
4 A
Generally, yes.
5 g
Did you coordinate with DOE at any time?
6 A
Directly, I don't think I did.
I left the 7
m'ajority of that activity to Mr. Stohr, of our Region I 8
office.
9 G
Was he the single coordinator or principal co-10 ordinator from the site when you were there?
11 A
Yes, he was.
12 O
Do you know if he received all of the DOE data I
13 that the DOE was generating from the ohms and from the I
15 A
I can only say that I trust that he was getting 16 the data.
17 0
Well, you don't know?
18 A
Well, he was certainly accumulating a large 19 quantity of data.
There may have been some that was 20 missed, but I think he felt confident that he was get-mL 21 ting adequate data.
22 g
Do you know who he was passing that information 23 on to w' hen he received it?
(
24 A
I am sure it was several people.
25 0
To the Region Office?
FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 45 1
A To the Region Office, to the headquarters.
Now 2
the specific person, I don't know, because it changed 3
quite a bit.
4 0
Did you have any other contact with other federal 5
or state agencies, personally while you were at the 6
site?
7 I
Yes.
8 G
Can you name them and describe them, briefly?
9 A
Had contact with the Pennsylvania Department of 10 Environmental Resources, Radiation Protection -- quite 11 a bit of contact with those people.
12 G
Can you tell me what your principal business was 13 with them?
14 A
Well, providing status reports on the Plant and 15 the environment via telephone and also they provided 16 a representative on site soon after the accident.
We 17 were in constant communication with him.
18 G
You personally communicated with him?
o 19 A
Yes, yes.
20 Also there were the people from the 21 Forestry Service who provided us communications -- I had L2 quite a bit of contact with.
13 Who else --
24 G
Health, Education HEW?
25 A
Yes, but very little contact with HEW.
- Again, FOSTER COURT R E PO RTIN G SERW;CE. INC
~KEIMI'G 46 1
Mr. Stohr, I believe took care of most of the contacts 2
with HEW, G
On to reporting from the On Site' Inspection Team.
3 4
Do you have any examples that come to mind where the
~
5 On Site Inspection Team reported the plans of the 6
Licensee, the general status of the Plant, their own 7
e' valuation of a safety situation to either headquarters 8
or to the region as opposed to responses to questions 9
concerning specific bits of data?
10 A
Specific examples, I can't give you, because 11 this type of communication was going on all the time 12 and I really can't think of any specific 13 G
Did you ever report any of the Licensee's plans 14 back to the region?
15 A
- . am sure I must have, but again, I can't think 16 of anyt.hing specific.
17 G
Did you attend the Licensee daily meetings to 18 discuss the technical activities for the day and their e
19 plans for solving whatever problem was in it for --
20 A
Early o n. af ter the accident, you are referring
(
21 to?
22 G
Early on after the accident.
23 A
No, I did not.
24 a
During the first five days?
25 A
No, I did not.
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 47 1
G Did the Vollmer team work through I and E or did 2
they deal directly with the Licensee?
3 A
During the first several days after the accidente 4
Vollmer's group worked directly with the Licensee and 5
I and E worked directly with the Licensee.
There was 6
very little coordination the tirst few days.
7 G
After the first few days, nenton's team came on 8
site or does that run together with si se first few 9
days where you also had a period of time there that they 10 had little coordination?
11 A
That's correct.
There was little coordination 12 for the first four or five days.
13 G
Did --
14 A
Let me continue.
15 The coordination came about after 16 the Plant got into a more stable condition.
17 G
Can you tell me approximately what day that was 18 that they began to hav everdination?
19 A
Probably early in the next week.
Monday or 20
- {
7uesday.
21 3
So tl.a first five days the I and E people did I
22 l
not work wit 1. NRR pnople to learn of what the overall l
NRR plans wer e for the day or for the next few days 23 24 with respect to any particular area?
25 A
There were conversation s continuously during rostra count nanonimo scavice. me g
KEIMIG 48 1
this time.
What I mean to imply is that if I and E 2
wanted a question answered, they would go directly to 3
the Licensee as opposed to NRR if in fact the Licensee 4
would have been the best person to answer that question 5
and NRR would do similarily.
Where we may have had the 6
answer to the question that NRR was seeking and NRR mayl 7
have had the answer to the question that I and E was 8
seeking.
We didn't coordinate that, in my estimation, 9
very adequately.
10 0
When Mr. Grier came to the site, what was his 11 relationship to the I and E team?
12 A
He was in overall charge of the I and E team.
13 G
Did he direct or instruct the I and E team on a 14 daily basis?
15 A-Yes, as a Regional Director, yes, he did.
16 0
Did he hold meetings with you and possibly 17 McCabe to discuss the status of the Plant or of the 18 plans for the I and E team?
o 10 A
Yes, he did.
He also ha.d meetings with Vollmer 20
.(]
and Denton and other people in NRR.
21 0
That was during the first five days?
He only 22 came -- he arrived at tha site on Friday?
U A
Correct.
24 g
so did he have these meetings on Friday or 25 Saturday?
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'KEI, MIG 49 1
A Yes.
IIe was involved with NRR on Friday.
When 2
he arrived, I believe late Friday when shortly be-3 fore or shortly after Mr. Denton arrived and from that 4
time on he had meetings with NRR and conversations.
I 5
don't know if they were formal meetings.
6 G
With respect to the uncovered cover, whenever 7
you believed that you knew that the core had been un-8 covered at some time or it was the opinion that it had 9
been uncovered at some time, did you relate this or 10 did anyone relate it for you as being associated with 11 the high temperature readings in the reactor?
You were 12 aware that there were high temperature readings in the 13 reactor?
14 A
Yes, I was.
15 G
Were the high tempercture readings related by 16 anyone for you as indicating that the coolant was super 17 heated, the steam was super heated?
18 A
Yes, but I don't remember exactly whom.
O 19 G
Did you discuss that particular subject with the 20
{
Met Ed people, the subject of super heated steam and o
21 the possibility of uncovered core, personally?
22 A
I can't recall specifically who I discussed it M
with, but may have been Met Ed, it may have been pos-24 sible from B & W, it may have been on our people and it 25 may have been all of them.
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVtCE. INC 1
KEIMIG 50 1
Q I see.
2 To fix a time frame of questions 3
that I have just asked you about, the uncovered and the.
4 super heated steam, the time frame is on Wednesday 5
night -- Wednesday night first?
6 A
No.
I don't believe I discussed it with anybody:
7 on Wednesday night.
8 G
Thursday morning?
9 A
Probably not Thursday morning or Thursday after :
l 10 noon.
The earliest that I might have discussed it with' 11 somebody would have been Thursday evening.
12 O
Were you aware of the elevated temperatures as 13 early as the weekend?
14 A
To the best of my recollection, yes, I was.
15 0
Were you aware that the headquarters was extreme-16 ly anxious about whether or not the core was uncovered i
17 and believed that the core possibly was uncovered on 18 Wednesday -- was uncovered on Wednesday night?
O 19 A
Yes, sir.
I believe everybody was concerned 20 about whether the core had been uncovered or not.
- -L.
21 0
The concern that I am thinking about, though, is 22 not whether it had been at that particular point, but 23 whether it was actually in fact uncovered late Wednes-24 day.
25 A
I see.
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVIC E. INC,
KEIMIG 51 1
G Is that putting a different light on the ques-2 tion?
3 A
No.
I don't believe that I was aware of that 4
concern Wednesday night.
5 0
Were you aware of anybody from NRC suggesting 6
that the Licensee consider blowing down the reactor on 7
Wednesday afternoon?
8 A
I don't understand " Blowing down" a reactor.
9 G
Were you aware that someone from the NRC head-t 10 quarters was suggesting that the Licensee reduce the 11 pressure down -- reduce the pressure in the reactor core' 12 to a point where they could go on to the reactor heat 13 removal system because of the inability to get liquid 14 into the core?
15 A
Yes, I was aware of recommendations or suggest-16 ions with regard to depressurizing the Plant sufficient-17 ly to initiate D.K.
heat removal and actuate the core 18 flood tanks.
I believe that was sometime Wednesday o
19 morning -- maybe 11:00 a.m.
20 0
Was it related to this reduction in the pressure?
21 Was that to be related to the f a c't that the core was 22 uncovered and they weren't sure that they could get 23 coolant into it unless the.y went"-- converted over to 24 the RHR reactor heat removal system?
25 A
I don't recall specifically if the two were FOSTER COURT R E PO R TIN G SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 52 1
re. lated but obviously because someone made the suggest-2 ion to get a pressure where the core flood tanks could 3
be utilized to' provide additional water tx) the reactor.
4 I would assume that that was the reason.
5 G
Do you know if anybody -- let me back up.
6 Did you make any suggestions to Met 7
Bd when you came on site with respect to reducing the 8
pressure?
9 A
No, sir, I did not.
As I recall by the time I 10 got on site they had regained the pressure and that 11 started the reactor coolant pump.
12 g
.With respect to samples, were you personally 13 involved in the actions related to taking the core 14 samples or containment samples on the first or second 15 days of the incident?
IG A
I don't understand what you mean by " Core sam-17 pies" or " Containment samples."
18 G
There was a time when the Licensee sampled the 4
19 reactor coolant?
20 A.
- Yes,
.b 21 G
That's what I mean by -- I'm sorry -- that was 22 a bad term -- reactor coolant and another time when 23 they sampled the containment atmospherent question is, 24 were you involved in any actions related to the taking l
l 25 of the samples?
l FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING $ERVICE. f MC
KEIMIU 53 1
A No, I was not.
2 G
The analyzing of those samples?
3 A
No, I was not.
4 0
When you came on to the site on Wednesday night,.
5 did you take any specific actions to improve communica-6 tions with the Region and headquarters?
o 7
A" No.
At that point there were no actions that 8
could be taken to improve the communications.
I did 9
make an assessment of the number of telephones which i
10 were available to us; specifically requested of Mr.
11 Herbein that we, at the Observation Center, be provided, I
12 with a telephone which we could be reached on should 13 headquarters or the Regional Office desired to contac 14 us and that was provided.
15 0
Were you aware that Higgins called headquarters 16 and spoke to Moseley on Friday concerning a communica-17 tion problem?
18 A ~
I don't specifically recall.
4 19 Q
Did Mr. Seyfrit, in his letter to Boyce Grier 20
{
explaining his activitics at the site and giving some 21 opinions on the performance of the groups at the site --
22 said that the continual struggle between NRR and I and j 23 E was dvident.
NRR seemed to feel that only by getting 24 inform! tion firsthand could they depend on its accu-25 racy, IE inspectors questioned the actions taken by l
FOSTER C Ob *e ? R E POR TING SERVICL INC
l
~KEIMIG 54 1
NRR.
All in all there was an area of two separate 2
organizations sometimes werking at cross purposes 3
rather than a unitified. agency team approach.
4 Is this an accurate statement?
5 A
I would say in general, yes.
I don't' think I 6
would be that hard, but it does relate to what I dis-o 7
cussed briefly the coordinating difficulties that we 8
had.
9 Q
Other than what you have alr.eady told me, did 10 anyone do anything to correct that situation?
11 A
Yes.
I believe that Mr. Grier and Mr. Vollmer 12 and Denton tried to rectify that situation as best they 13 could..
14 Q
Do you know of any specific examples of some-15 thing they did to rectify it?
16 A
At some point the NRR and I and E procedure re-17 views were directed to work together -- were directed 18 to get information from the I a-nd E inspectors that D
10 were already in the containment -- I'm sorry, already 20
{
in the Control Room rather than to enter the Control 21 Room themselves and be an additional burden upon the 22 operating crew in the Control Room.
M Q
Was this on Friday?
24 A
I don't believe that occurred until probably 25 Sunday and Monday.
I FOSTER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. INC
-KEIMIG 55 1
g Do you believe that the problem was due to lack 2
of previously defined roles for NRR and I and E?
3 A
Yes, most definitely.
I also believe it was due, 4
in large portion, to the fact that the NRC personnel 5
who responded on site to the incident were all trying l
6 to do a good job of what they thought was -- was a good' O
7 job of getting the Plant in a stable situation and 8
protecting the health and safety of the general public, 9
but unfortunately they all went their own way.
10 MR. FRAMPTON:
Would you say that 11 would be true of the first 12 THE WITNESS:
Excuse me?
13 MR. FRAMPTON:
Would you say that 14 would be true of the first two or three days?
15 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
16 MR. FRAMPTON:
In particular?
17 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
18 BY MR. RIVENBARK:
7 19 G
Can you suggest any other solutions in additon 20
{
to defining roles to rectify this situation in the 21 future?
22 A
Yes.
I think there has to be a must closer work-23 ing relationship between NRR and I and E in steneral; 24 whether we have an incident or not.
Mr. Seibert point-25 ed they sometimes act like two indpendent agencies.
FOSTER COURT R E PO RTING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 56 1
BY MR. FRAMPTON:
2 G
Mr. Keimig, what would you say was the principal I
3 strength or positive aspect and the principal weakness 4
or negative aspects of the NRC's emergency response to 5
the first three days, let's say, aF.you saw it?
What 6
was the thing that NRC did best and what would you say 7
was the major thing that needed to be improved in terms 8
of the lessons learned from the response?
9 A
I think the thing they did best was to get people 10 on the site who could communciate information from the 11 site and relieve the Licensee of that burden.
The thinc 12 I think we did most poorly was what we have -- we just 13 finished discussing and that was the -- not have defined 14 roles in reacting to an incident, tending to lead to 15 much confusion, inaccurate information, misinformation 16 and things of that nature.
17 MR. FRAMPTON:
Thank you very much 18 for your time and your candor.
I don't think we 19 have anymore questions.
I guess I'd like to ask i
20 you one final question and that is this:
(:
21 You have been interviewed a number 22 of occasions prior to today and we have asked 23 you questions for several hours.
1 24 Are there any areas or subject mat-25 ters that none of these interviews have really FOSTER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
KEIMIG 57 1
gone into that you think are significant that 2
ought to be brought out something that nobody 3
has really touched on who has interviewed you to 4
date?
5
'5HE WITNESS :
If there is anything, 6
I can't think of it right now.
o 7
~
MR. FRAMPTON:
Okay.
Fine.
Thank 8
you very much.
9 (Witness Excuse'd.)
10 (Whereupon the deposition was con-11 cluded at 4:48 p.m.)
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 I
20 C~
21 22 s
23 24 25 FO5TER COURT REPORTING SERVICE. lNC
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