ML19308C571
| ML19308C571 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 08/03/1979 |
| From: | Bodden H, Goldfrank J METROPOLITAN EDISON CO., PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001280601 | |
| Download: ML19308C571 (47) | |
Text
-
p s
__________________________________________________x PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE ISLAND
__________________________________________________x DEPOSITION of METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY by HUGH EDWARD BODDEN, held at th e Three i
Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station, Harrisburg, f
Pennsylvania on the 3rd day of August, 1979, com-mencing at 8:30 a.m.,
before Stanley Rudbarg, certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the State o f New York.
(
1 BENJAMIN REPORTING SERVICE CERT:FIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS FIVE 13 eel (MAN MTREEr NEW YORK.NEW YORK 10038
[212] 374 1138 8001280 N 1
I 2
2 APPE ARANCE S:
3 METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY:
4 SHAW, PITTMAN, POTTS & TROWBRIDGE, ESQS.
5 Attorneys for Metropolitan Edison Company 1800 M Street, N.W.
6 Washington, D.C.
20036 I
BY:
ALAN R.
YUSPEN, ESQ.
of Counsel 8
9 P RE SIDEN T ' S COMMISSION ON TH REE MILE ISLAND:
10 11 JOAN GOLDFRANK, ESQ.
Associate ' Chie f Counsel 12 B
ALSO PRESENT:
14 15 LOUIS F.
COOPER j
16 ano 17 HUGH E DWARD BO D DEN, having been 18 duly swo rn by Ms. Goldfrank, was called as a 19 witness and testified as follows:
1 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 21 BY MS. GOLDFRANK C
22 Q
Would you state your name?
23 A
Hugh Edward Bodden.
24 Q
And your present address?
25 A
Benton Road, Birdsboro, Pennsylvania.
SENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 3
2 Q
Your present employer?
3 A
Metropolitan Edison company.
4 Q
And your present position there?
0 A
Manager of Generation Maintenance.
6 Q
You brought with you today a resume marked 7
Bodden Deposition Exhibit 90, correct?
8 A
Yes.
9 (Resume o f Hugh E.
Bodden was marked 10 Bodden Deposition Exhibit 90 for identification.)
11 Q
And did you prepare this resume?
12 A
Yes, ma'am.
13 i
Q When did you prepare it?
14 A
Ch, I prepared it several years ago, and I 15 updated it once I got the notification to appear 16 because I wanted it to reflect my actual participation 17 in the Three Mile Island activity.
It was written 18 up in more general de tail be fore, and I just modified 19 effectively this experience in order to separate my 20 nuclear and fossil experience parts.
21 Q
so this was prepared by you sometime in 22 July, up to th at date?
i 23 g
y..,
24 Q
And it is now a current resume?
25 A
Yes.
well, as of what I'm doing since March 28, BENJAMIN R EPO RTIN G SERVICE
I Bodden 4
2 it is not reflective because all my activities since 3
March 28 have been concentrated on all the fossil 4
activities in the fossil generating station.
I 5
have had very little input to TMI since March 28.
6 Q
This would be an accurate reflection of 7
your responsibility as of March 287 8
A Yes.
9 Q
Your resume indicates that you received 10 a bachelor of science degree in marine engineering?
11 A
-Yes, New York State Maritime College.
12 Q
Would you explain what that is?
13 A
Well, it is an engineering course similar to 14 mechanical engineering with the main emphasis toward 15 ship propulsion, rather than strictly mechanical.
16 Q
And you are a registered professional 17 engineer in Pennsylvania?
10 A
Yes, ma'am, in. mechanical engineering because 19 they don't give them in marine engineering.
I don't 20 know if you are familiar with the school.
21 We' graduated, and in addition to getting a
(
22 degree, we also get a commission in the Naval Reserve, 23 and also you are licensed in the U.S.
Coast Guard.
24 That is why I listed this license as my current 25 license that I operated since I left school.
SENJAMIN REPCRTING SERVICE
I Bodden 5
2 Q
And when did you graduate?
3 A
october, 1944 4
Q And you first came to Met Edison in 19567 5
A Yes, ma'am.
6 Q
And from 1956 to 1958, you were at 7
crawford station?
4 8
A Yes, that is the one right up the road here.
9 Q
That is fossil fuel?
10 A
Yes.
It is retired noe.
11 Q
In 1972, you became manager of generation 12 maintenance?
13 A
Yes, ma'am.
14 Q
And that is still the present position 15 you hold?
16 A
Well, in the interim from 1975 to
'77, we 17 i
aligned the organization.
I had fossil operatiens 18 at that time in the fossil stations, and then in 19 December of '77, they realigned the organization 20 again, and they put all the generating stations under 21 one operating manager, rather than splitting the 22 fossil and nuclear parts, f
23 Q
so, in 1972, when you were generation
)
2%
manager, that was just fossil fuel?
25 A
At that time, yes.
There wasn't much nuclear.
BENJAMIN REPCRTING SERvict
_ _ ~ -
I Bodden 6
2 Toward the tail I began to become involved in 3
Three Mile Island.
4 Q
Your resume indicates on page 2 that 5
while you were manager of generation maintenance 6
between 1972 and 1975, that you were responsible fo r 7
developing and implementing maintenance procedures 8
and quality assurance procedures at TMI, correct?
9 A
Yes, I guess it was under my jurisdiction at 10 the time, yes.
It was actually done by the station 11 itself, though.
12 Q
The Three Mile Island site developed 13 the dr'afts and you reviewed them?
14 A
Yes, that's right.
15 g
now did you oversee that review?
16 A
From Reading mostly.
17 Q
And would they send you a final draft?
18 A
Yes.
i 9
Q Who on the island was responsible for 20 those drafts?
21 A
I guess the station manager at that time.
My C
22 entire role in this was like sort of a consultant i
23 or a support activity, I guess is the best way to 24 put it.
During that period o f time, we were in the l
25 p ro ce s s of instituting maintenance procedures in our B ENJAMlN R EPO RTING SERVICE l
.1
1 Bodden 7
2 fossil stations, and the two of them kind of ran 3
together at that time.
4 Q
Did you utilize as a model the procedures h
5 that you had at the fossil stations for Three Mile 6
Island?
7 A
- Yes, of course, that was modified later on, 8
but we had an organization called United Research 9
come in, and I'm not sure when they came on board, 10 but they assisted us in developing the maintenance 11 activity at the fossil stations, for outage programs 12 and procedures and planning and the paperwork flow, U
which we had had informally, but they more formalized 14 ig, 15 of course, we sent A eone out to spread that 16 into the TMI group.
They computerized a lot of II theirs, which we are just now getting around to in 18 the fossil stations, to computerize our maintenance 19
,,gg,,,,
20 They just moved ahead a little f as ter than
'l we did here in the fossil station.
They had more
~~
people to put on and could of course, they weren't t
t operating in those days.
It was prior to their I
,4 operations, so they had a little more time to spend i
on it, i
B ENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 8
2 Q
And when you state " maintenance procedures,"
3 does that include preventive maintenance procedures?
4 A
Mostly preventive maintenance, yes.
To the G
5 best of my recollection, there were very few correc-6 tive maintenance procedures made in thos e days.
I Mos t o f it was a PM program.
8 Q
And what was your involvement with the 9
quality assurance program?
10 A
Merely to make sure that the two were compatible 11 and that proper quality procedures were followed, like 12 welding'and things like that.
13 Q
At this time, was there a manager for 14 generation quality assurance?
15 3
go, 16 Q
So those responsibilities fell onto you?
17 A
wait a minute.
Let me make sure.
I'm trying 18 to think back.
I think it was about ' 7 3 or ' 74 that 19 they did have a quality assurance manager onboard.
20 I guess up until that time, it was more informal, if 21 I can use that word, then it has been sines.
C 22 It was more of a broad brush quality assurance 23 in those days than what we look at these days, if I 24 can define it that way.
o.5 g
can you explain what PJM Maintenance BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE l
I 1odden 9
2 Guidelines ic?
3 A
PJM is the operating group of utilities that 4
operate out of Philadelphia.
The Pennsylvania-New cr 5
Jersey-Maryland interconnection is what it is called.
6 If I can back up a little bit, the operating 7
experience of some of the big units had been very 8
poor throughout the PJM sys tem, and the PJM 9
Maintenance cuidelines committee was developed, 10 and I was a part of that committee.
I can give you 11 a copy of th e book, if you would like that.
12 It had a guideline for boiler repairs and 13 inspections, turbine boiler inipections.
They 14 had one for a combustion turbine, and also an electri-15 cal section.
The nuclear section to date has not 16 been developed, but it was guidelines that was given 1
II out to all the companies as a guideline *o follow to I8 improve their maintenance on the units, which would 19
.in turn improve the availability o f the unit over 20 the long run.
21 g,..s a committee of individuals from each C
22 of the participating campanies in the PJM system.
23 g
so there were representatives from the 24 utilities in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland?
25 A
Yes, ma'am.
Public service was represented.
EENJAMIN R EPO RTI NG S ERVICE
\\
i I
Bodden 10 2
PPsL, Philadelphia Electric, Baltimore Gas & Electrie, 3
Delmarva, Atlantic City Electric.
The other GPU com-4 panies, I was GPU representative, to clarify that.
l (?
5 Q
?.nd there was guidelines set up for 6
fossil fuel?
I A
Yes, not' nuclear at all.
You know, let me 8
clarify this by saying that the only part of the 9
nuclear lap-over would be electrical and other com-10 ponents which are common to both fossil and nuclear 11 stations, f.f you follow what I'm saying.
12 Q
Have they expanded since that time to 13 include nuclear 7 14 A
No, they haven't.
That has..never been done.
15 Q
Has a similar committee been set up to 16 cover the nuclear plants?
17 A
No, I would imagine it would be a similar group, 18 but at the time they were done I think a statement was made that when more experience is gained in the nuclear operations, those guidelines should be
- l a
included in there, or words to that effect.
~~
Q But they haven't?
23 A
It has not been done to the best of my knowledge.
24 At the time, the people on the committee, their exper-
)
l 25 tise was in the area th at we were involved in, in 1
B ENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
)
I Bodden 11 2
combustion, turbines, and boilers. No one at that 3
time felt they had enough operating experience to 4
make a worthwhile contribution.
5 I think that was in the latter part of '72 or 6
early ' 73 when the committee 's final report came out.
7 Q
can you explain to me what is meant by 8
the mobile maintenance group concept?
9 A
Pennsylvania Electric has the same thing.
10 They have a group of people that go from station to 11 station and do maintenance during particular times.
12 For instance, you bring a group of people in U
to one of our other stations, and we have done a 14 lot of work since the dormation of the group, but 15 because our stations are physically separated geo-16 graphically so much, it hasn't been proven economic-17 ally a feasible way to go.
16 What they have done within the last union 19 contract was to develop what is known as remote 20 reporting, where the people are paid to re po rt here "I
at a starting time with a per diem rate and their C
travel time.
Tha", '6s ef fectively taken par t o f 23 the place of t ien t ' - s up.
,4 s
Our siss.tr company,. Pennsylvania Electriz, 25 has a mor_le maintenance group in it, 400 people, BEN LAMIN R EFCRTING SERVICE
f 1
Bodden 12 2
for example, which we don't have, i
3 g
so, you would just do it on an individual 4
basis?
l(
5 A
There is no one group that goes from station 6
to station, that is right, no set group, we I
i presently ask 'for volunteers.
Some of the people 0
who have been up here during the outage, for example, 9
were from our other generating stations, but they 10 didn't have to go.
They were asked if they would 11 go, and did.
1 First of all, a station has to be able to 13 release them.
Then they have to be willing to go.
14 We can't force them to go.
15 Q
So, if one station, for instance, Three 16 Mile Island, needed more maintenance people, th ey could try to get them initially from another station?
O A
What they normally do at the beginning of an l
outage, or when planning for an ou tage, they review 0
the workload that they have to do.
In fact, there
- 1 are two fossil stations in September and October k_
l
'~
th at will have an outage.
They are assembling the
- 3 work they will have to do.
They will look at the
'l manpower ;oading.
They reali=ed to get the fork "5
done in the period of time that is allotted, they S ENJAMIN R EPO RTING S ERVICE
I Bodden 13 2
will need, let us say, 50 more people, and they need 3
them in those specific categories.
4 So, the station superi4.lendent would write me F
5 a letter and say, "I need 50 people in, and these 6
are the ways the breakdown is."
7 I would turn around and go to the other generat-8 ing stations and make the request known to them and 9
try to get a response back.
We have never been able 10 to get all 50 people, but we would get a limited 11 amount of people.
12 of course, we either reduced the work spell or 13 contract the work out.
14 Q
If you can't get all 50 people?
15 A
Yes, it is kind of like these people that are 16 specifically designated as mobile maintenance.
of 17 course, they have to got that is their first commit-18 ment in life.
We don't have those people dedicated 19 y,g, 20 g
was th a't because o f th e distance between 21 the stations?
22 A
Yes.
It is almost like 90 miles from here to 23 Po rtl and, for example, and 55 miles to Titut what 24 we e f fectively did was built up the maintenance force 25 at eaca one of th e stations to try to overcome it.
B ENJAMIN REPORTING S ERVICE
1 l
1 Bodden 14 i
2 but it hasn't been really too successful.
If we I
3 3
had gotten the response on remote reporting that 4
we would have likrd to ha't gotten, it would have l(
5 been better, probably.
6 Q
And how did your responsibilities change 7
when, in 1975, you became manager of generation 8
operation?
9 A
well, I mainly was responsible for the opera-10 tion of our fossil stations, which, at that time, i
11 were Crawford, Eiler, Titus, and Portland.
We also 12 had a steam-heat plant in York, and we had a hydro U
station and 14 combustion terminals.
I was directly 14 re sponsible for tha operation, and in some respects 15 some o f the maintenance activity.
You never seen 16 to lose what you came out of, you know.
17 I was always the company's representative on 18 labor matters.
I was responsible for the operation 19 and maintenance budget, which, incidentally, I never 20 lost becaura that has been following me.
21 Q
.You were also responsible for the operat-22 ing maintenance budget for the nuclear plant, for TMI?
23 3
y..,
24 Q
Just dealing with maintenance?
25 A
Just maintenance.
construction is handled by B ENJAMIN REPORTING S ERVICE
1 i
1 Bodden 15 2
the engineering manager.
3 Q
How does that interface with Mr. Christman, 4
the manager o f administration, with his responsibilities?
C, 5
A He has the overall responsibility of the budge t.
6 In other words, every time a maintenance work order is 7
prepared for the specific amount of work or specific 8
description of work, I an one of the signatories on 9
it before it goes to our vice president for his sig-10 nature.
so I guess that that is the control I have 11 over it.
12 of course, he actually controls the formation 13 of the budget, if I can put it that way, where 14 actually some o f the input and the actual mechanics 15 of its working, the day-to-day working, would be 16 we have to prepare a statement that,. depending on 17 the dollar value, has to go to the president or the 18 GPU.
19 Then you have to have a satisfactory explanation 20 of why you want to spend $100,000, for example, and 21 why it needs to be spent.
You have to have the 22 reasons and benefits for each one of those things, 23 and a breakdown of whether it is parts, labor, out-2%
side contracts, and stuff.
25 I review all of those and sign those.
If they B ENJAMIN R EPORTING S ERVICE
d j
1 Bodden 16 I~
2 are not right, you send them back to the station.
i 3
You get to know what the format has to be in before 4
it can pass the vice president and president's signa-5 ture in to to.
6 g
so you would get input from Mr. shoviin i
7 at the station'as to what he wanted his budget to be, i
8 and then you would provide that to Mr. Christman?
9 A
well, it would be provided.
I guess I would 10 provide it on a consulting basis.
11 For example, I maintain a maintenance schedule 12 for each year.
Then I know that Three Mile Island 13 is coming down a particular period or we' re going 14 to have a turbine inspection at Portland.
We know 15 approximately what amount o f work we' re going to do, 16 and we know approximately the dollar range we're 17 going to spend.
I 18 of course, then we have to look back at our 19 i
past inspections and decide what we postponed or 20 what we were tcld we should be doing the next time, 21 now.
l 22 Those are the kinds of inputs.
The actual 23 preparation of the budget is by the budget group 24 here and by the budget group in the home office, 25 in our central headquarters.
I guess you could say SENJAMIN REPORTING S ERVICE
1 Bodden 17 2
I provide the material, if that is a good way to put 3
it, for the preparation of the budget, the dollar 4
value, and the technical evaluation of what goes in C
5 it.
6 Then, I control it as the year goes on.
I 7
don't have any idea today, for example, where I 8
would have to ask somebody else how much money do 9
we have left in the Portland budget, for example, 10 because we're going to overhaul a turbine.
Do we 1
11 have enough monsy to do that job?
l 12 I do know overall that I effectively had i
13
$250,000 or some number for a turbine insp9: tion, 14 and had so much for a boiler inspection.
If I have 15 to do more boiler work, I may want to postpone the 16 turbine work so th at I can get enough money to do 17 the required boiler work.
This is what we're doing 18 right now.
I hope I didn't confuse you.
19 g
so that your function with respect to 20 the maintenance budget for Three Mile Island would 21 be to serve as a consultant?
C-22 A
Yes.
23 g
In a sense?
24 A
Yes.
25 g
And then that budget would go through i
BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE i
--m m
t-9
1 Bodden 18 2
the manager of generation administration, to the 1
3 vice president, and then'to the president?
4 A
Yes, the budget, whatever budget function.
5 g
with respect to the budgets that are i
6 ultimately approved by the highest, the president 1
7 of GPU or chairman of the board of GPU, once you l
8 have that budget, is it budgeted for each station, i
9 or can you have the money flow in between each 10 station?
3 11 A
It is e f fe ctively for each station, but --
12 first of all, we can maneuver the funds within the 1
D station.
That is fine.
We can do it that way.
l 14 If we know we're going to go over, we can 15 look at the other areas of generation and say, 16 "Well, we can afford not to do this there, which t
17 would give us x amount of dollars we could apply 1
18 over here."
19 so, in other words, I can go to my boss and 20 say, "we can afford to postpone something at one 21 o f the stations because I'm going to need to do this
(_
22 work over here."
l 23 It will affect the two stations, and we will 24 have to make both stations' superintendents understand.
I 25 Then, I tell them, "I want to advise you that it won't SENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
I Bodden 19
~
2 change your overall budget for the re s t o f th e company."
3 so he's happy.
I have two unhappy people, but one 4
happy person as a result.
5 I think maybe a simple way to explain it is 6
we have 14 of these combustion turbines in our system.
7 That, more or less, is a common budget.
8 If we run into an excess of repair on one of 9
the units, we, in turn, just postpone something at 10 one of the other two.
Actually, that is in maybe 11 two to three people's budget.
But effectively from 12 the generation, from Christman's standpoint, he U
won't notice any difference because I keep him 14 advised of what I'm going to do.
O th erwis e, he 15 looks at it and is confused.
16 Q
In 1977, you became manager of generation 17 maintenance?
18 A
Yes.
19 g
How did your responsibilities change 20 with this position from manager o f generation 21 operation?
(_
22 A
I guess I became more involved -- we became 23 more involved in the TMI input because if there were 24 two units about that time getting ready to man, we 25 had more of an input into TMI.
L l
j SENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
(~
1 Bodden 20
^
2 We had retired some o f the other fossil stations
{
3 in this work period, and there was actually more needed 4
in ;'s area, in the maintenance area, than there was in 5
another.
t 6
They had a reorganization at the time, too, and
{
7 we formed another administration group at th a t time.
I 8
The fellow who had been manager of maintenance became 1
9 manager of administration, so I was an applicant to 10 take his place and they combined th e two operation 11 functions from operation o f fossil and nuclear into i
12 one, under a manager who happened to be Jack Herbein.
13 g
so, as manager of generation maintenance 14 from 1977 to the present, your responsibilities are 15 basically what?
16 A
As far as this station is concerned, we are 17 on a consulting basis, you might say, or " support 18 basis" is probably a better word.
19 We assist in all their contract preparations, 20 maintenance contracts that is in force here.
We 21 develop it and also I was part o f the committaa or C
22 chairman of the committee, if you want to have it 23 that way, of the actual evaluation and the awarding 24 of contracts to the present contractor, catalytic.
25 My group has also helped develop all the maintenance BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
~
1 Bodden 21 2
contracts for turbines.
We have supplied people up 3
here to assist during overhaol, scheduling, plannin,g, 4
and support during the outa ges that were required, 5
any troubleshooting, electrical problems.
6 ror example, one of our electrical supervisors 7
would come up and fill in.
That is about it.
It is 8
about the same support that we give to all the other 9
stations, too.
10 Q
How many fo ssil generating stations are 11 there?
3 12 A
There are two s team stations, one hydro, and D
14 combustion turbines, and nine of them are located 14 in one division.
15 Q
And you report to whom?
16 A
Jack Herbein, Vice President of Generation.
17 Q
can you draw me an organizational chart.
18 I understand you report to Mr. Herbein and their are 19 three other managers at the same level, correct?
20 A
Yes.
This is Administration.
This is Engineering.
21 This is Operations.
The fourth box is QA, and the last 22 box is Maintenance.
23 (There was discussion off the record.)
24 Q
As you explained when we were off tne 25 record, prior to March.
there were five managers i
l BENJAMIN R EPORTING S ERVICE
l 1
Bodden 22 2
that reported directly to the Vice President of i
i 3
Generation, Mr. Herbein.
4 A
Depending on what date.
If you say March 28, 5
I think actually March 5th was when Gary reported 1
6 directly to Mr. Jack Herbein.
On March 28th, there l
7 were six managers re po rtin g, to be accurate.
8 Q
He would have been called the Manager o f?
I 9
A Nuclear Generating Station, I think was the title.
10 Q
so, at that time, there were six managers?
11 A
Yes.
12 Q
One was manager for Generation Administra-13 tion, manager of Generation for Engineering, manager 14 for Generation, Operations, manager for Generation, 15 Quality Assursnce, and man'ager for Generation, 16 Maintenance, and a manager for the nuclear stations?
17 A
Yes, that's right.
18 Q
And all six managers reported directly to 19 Mr. Herbein, Vice President for Generation?
20 A
Yes.
21 Q
And the Operations for the fos s il fuel C
22 plant reported to the manager for
- t. ener ation Opera-23 tions?
24 A
Yes.
25 Q
Then all the personnel on Three Mile Island BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE f
1 Bodden 23 2
would report to Gary Miller?
3 A
Yes.
4 Q
Could you explain what your relationship 5
was to the Maintenance operations on the island?
6 A
Well, as I said, it was in a support role.
I 7
guess probably it is fair to say I never got quite 8
as involved.
They would have some thing break down 9
here, and I would get a call.
At a fossil stations, l
10 if they had a maintenance problem, I usually would j
1 11 get a call and they would tell me what the problem 12 w,s and explain it to me in detail, and ask me for 13 a solution.
I didn't have that.
14 There were times when that occurred, but it 15 wasn't that often.
I didn't have it on a day-to-day 16 basis th at I have at the fo<
stations.
17 when they had a problem that they needed i e 18 assistance, for example, if they had a problem, 19 where they called a GE and couldn't get the answer I
20 quick enough or fast enough, from my experience 21 where I have a few contacts and friends, I woqld 22 be able to get the thing resolved faster.
23 If they needed something and weren't able to 24 find it and they would ask if we had it, and would 25 call and say, "We need a widget.
Do you have any at BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 24 2
one of the other stations, or whether you think you 3
can get one, or do you know anybody who might have
~
4 one?", that kind o f thing.
5 g
Do you know why it developed that way, I
6 that you had more contact with the fossil fuel stations?
I A
I guess it was mostly ny experience.
I came up i
8 there.
I had been at all the fossil stations in the i
9 company and I always wanted to spend more time here I
10 and to become more involved in it, but with the other 11 present business, I never had the opportunity.
12 I had begun a program to send some of my people 13 up here for extended periods, so they could become 14 mo re involved.
It is a sis ter station, a nuclear 15 station:
we had only just begun to scratch the sur-
)
16 gae.,
17 Q
what type people had you sent up here to 18 the system?
19 A
I sent my boiler-turbine engineer.
I sent our 20 maintenance manager up.
We sent our supervisor of 21 mechanical maintenance and supervisor o* electrical 22 maintenance.
They had been up here, too.
Our weid-23 ing engineer had been up here a number o f times, also.
24 Q
Did you ask them to come up here on a 25 frequent basis to become familiar?
B ENJAMIN REPORTING S ERVICE
1 Bodden 25 2
A well, I started a program fo r them, but most 3
of the time, particularly the welding engineer, he 4
came up on problems, you know.
They would call him (1
5 and he would come up.
He was coming in on regular 6
ro utine to make sure that they were maintaining 7
qualifications-and doing things in acco rd with es tab-8 lished procedures.
9 Q
How frequently had you asked these peop 4 10 to come out to Three Mile Island 7 11 A
I guess it was kind of informal.
I guess I 12 told the newer ones, the electrical maintenance fore-U man and supervisor who had been here previously, so 14 he didn' t have to come back for experience, and th e 15 other two individuals were new in the company, and I 16 told them to get up there at least once or twice a 17 week on a fairly routine basis.
18 But, I mean, I didn't say to them, "Every Monday 19 you have to be there" o r "Every Tuesday."
we did it 20 according to our workload.
Some weeks they might get 21 up there fo r two days, and sometimes it might be three C
22 weeks be fo re they would get back again.
23 g
when did you start to encourage them to 2%
come here.
25 A
well, I guess in '78 when I got the people, '77 BENJAMIN R EPO RTING S ERVICE l-l
1 Bodden 26 2
or ' 78.
I'm not sure just when.
3 some of these jobs were vacant quite a while.
l 4
For example, George Troffer was supervisor of
~
5. Mechanical Maintenance before he'became a manager,'
I l
8 6
and was up here for almost three or four months 7
straight.
He was assisting in a lot of the work i
1 l
8 here while he was getting himself oriented.
I 9
sut the other people didn't spend that much l
10 time.
i 11 Q
And was this program developed by Jou, 12 or was it at the request of Three Mile Island?
13 A
No, it was developed by me because I felt that 14 we needed to get in-- to assist more at the nuclear 15 station because I realized that with the second unit 16 coming on, they would nee'd more help and more input 17 from us than they had in the past because they only 18 had one at th e time.
19 of course, it was doubling all the activity.
l 20 so we realized we would have to be more supportive to 21 them in anticipation.
(
22 Q
Since Unit 2 became critical in the spring i
l 23 of
'78, have you or your group spent mo re time up here 24 than prior to that?
l-25 A
Yes, I would say so.
Yes, they were up on EENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
e I
Bodden 27 2
problems, and generally they were up here.
~
3 Q
And about how frequently would they come 4
up since that time?
C 5
A I would say once or twice a week.
This, is a 6
guess.
7 Q
And who from the station would contact 8
you that there was a problem?
9 A
Most of the time, it would be Dan shoviin.
10 Most of the contacts would be from him.
11 Q
Would he call you?
12 A
Yes.
13 Q
Were these problems in terms of that 14 they needed more people and they needed the exper-15 tise then that you people had to o f fer7 16 A
Most o f th e time, they needed -- well, not 17 strictly limited to it.
But, th e majority o f the 18 time, it was for expertise.
19 I can think of an electrical problem that 20 occurred on No.
2, fo r example, referring to Unit 2, 21 where they required the services of our electrical C
22 supervisor, or supervisor of Electrical Maintenance.
23 I think there has been a few occasions where they 24 asked for the mechanical people.
But the one that 25 stands out most in my mind is the electrical problems.
B ENJAMIN REPORTING SERVICE t
1 Bodden 28 2
Q And he could just call you on the phone 1
3 and say, "I need so-and-so"?
4
'c A
Yes.
"Could you spara so-and-so?", sort of 5
not demandings it was a request.
6 Q
.And he would not have to go through Gary 7
Miller to contact you?
He could contact you directly?
8 A
Yes.
Of course, I am sure he touched with Gary.
9 cary
.sw what he was doing either before he did it 0
or after he did it.
11 There would be occasions where I would be sending 12 people up here and I would say to Gary, talking to U
him on an infrequent basis, "Yo u know, we have done 14 thus and so.
Dan and I are on the board together."
15 It was just to let him-khow and give communications 16 th a t I would like to expect from other people, too.
17 Q
How frequently would you come up to th e 18 island?
i 19 A
Ch, I would say, it depends on what was going 20 on up here.
I 21 For example, if there was an outage, I tried l
(:
22 to be up here maybe once a week or so.
Other than 23 th a t, I would have liked to have gotten up here more l
24 frequent 19 than I did, but time didn't permit.
25 Q
When there wasn't an outage, how frequently B ENJAMIN R EPORTING S ERVICE
1 Bodden 29 2
would you come?
3 A
say, two or three times a month.
I guess that 4
is about the best I could make it, to be honest with 5
you.
6 Q
Why, during an outage, would you come
\\
7 more frequently?
8 A
well, because there is more going on that would 9
af fect me personally, and I wanted to b e aware or 10 cognizant.
1 11 There are always times, not only on Unit 2, 12 for example, but Unit 1, where they called me for U
input, like turbine problems.
14 I vividly remember that I was down in Baltimore 15 and cary called me out of bed, It was him calling me 16 at 5:00 o' clock in the morning for input into a tur-17 bine problem that they had, those kinds of things.
18 Q
Do you have any kind of review, a sys-
, )
l 19 tematic review or periodic review, of the maintenance 20 program that has been established on Three Mile Island?
21 A
I see I don't do it, but I see reports of 22 overdue items, you know, and surveillances that are 23 done, then there are surveillances or non-conformance 24 reports that are mr.d e from time to time.
I get copies 25 of tho s e.
l BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE r
v
i.
Bodden 30 I
2 Depending on which problem area it is, from l
3 electrical or mechanical, I will give it to one of I
4 my people, welding or whatever.
I guess I don't see l
5 them on a fo rmal basis, when my people come up from j
6 time to time, they review the PM program to see where 7
they stood on how many things were overdue, for example, 8
whether they were up-to-date on the program.
9 I can't go in my drawer and flip open a book 10 and find out where they stand.
I do get a list of 11 al'1 their worklists, jobs, and it is a due list, so 12 to speak.
I get these occasionally.
D Q
And you were just sent copies o f those?
14 A
Yes.
It is a computer printout actually.
15 g
Fo r what, purpos e are they sent to you, 16 just to keep you info rmed'?
17 A
Yes, that is all.
18 Q
You are not the individual or department 19 that reviews those?
20 A
No.
I don't want to make it it is more of 21 a case that we do it at all stations because we're 22 trying to see what kind of a loan we have.
There is 23 a type of work you can't do except~ in an outage, so 24 this effectively begins to be the body of your mainten-25 ance activit*'.
From that standpoint, when my people BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE
i 1
Bodden 31 2
are system planning an outage schedule, we can ses 3
this ongoing.
we can take a look at the list and 4
say, "This is a three weeks outage and it is impos-I 5
sible to do what they have to do in three weeks.
It 6
will have to take a longer period o f time," those 7
kinds of things.
8 Q
You indicated there was a PM program, 9
that is, preventive maintenance?
10 A
Yes.
11 Q
When, as of, I believe, the beginning of 12 March, Gary Miller became a manager reporting directly 13 to the Vice President of Generation, prior to that he 14 reported to the manager o f Generation Operations,
i 15 Mr. Lawyer?
16 A
Yes.
17 Q
And wi+.h respect to your operations, how 18 did his reporting to the Vice President of Generation 19 change your relationship with th e island?
20 A
I guess I don't quite understand your question.
l l
21 Q
Did his change from reporting to Mr.
22 Lawyer to reporting to the vice President of Genera-23 tion as of March 5th, I believe you said, did that 24 change your relationship with th e island at all?
25 A
No.
Even though Gary was reporting to Lawyer, BENJAMIN R EPORTING S ERVICE
t 1
Bodden 32 l
2 I still maintained a liaison with him, and I didn't f
3 change that because of his change of reporting.
I l
4 have always maintained a posture that I like to as
!G 5
a superintendent or manager of a station, I like to 4
s 6
he informed of what is going on in my station, and 7
I was following th at activity when dealing with any 8
people, like Gary or the station people.
9 Q
You indicated earlier that, with respect 10 to certain time periods, I believe when there is I
11 refueling, th at more maintenance would be needed and 12 more. personnel would be needed on the island, and U
you would try to get people to come from o ther stations 14 here to help?
15 3
y..,
16 g
And if you could not get these other 17 people here, then you would either reduce the scope 18 or get a consultant?
19 A
cet a contractor.
20 Q
Who would make that decision as to whether 21 or not the scope was reduced or the work.was contracted C
22 out?
23 A
In the case -- I'm sure you are referring to 24 Three Mile Island, right?
25 g
Yes, Three Mile Island.
BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 33 2
A It would probably be Dan Shovlin and Gary 3
Miller.
You know, I might advise them, "Well, if 4
you can't get this many people, you can eliminate
{.
5 this job and that job."
I truthfully have not had 6
the close invo lve me nt that I had with the foss il 7
stations, whereby I could say, "You can eliminate 8
thus and so because th at is the easiest thing to 9
cut off."
10 I would have to go back and dig to get that 11 same kind of answer for Three Mile Island.
They 12 usually didn't require it because they have mo re U
people here.
14 Q
Three Mile Island doesn't require as 15 many people during these periods of time?
16 A
No.
There is a volune of work and they usually 17 ask for more people than the fossil stations, fo r 18 example, because of the volume of work during these 19 refueling periods.
Thus, they might ask for 50 or 20 54 people, where a fossil station would be satis fied 21 with 20 or 25, you know, to satisfy their needs.
(~
22 Q
So, Three Mile Island would usually ask 23 for more people?
24 A
Yes.
25 Q
Did Mr. shov11n ever discuss with you SENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 34 I
i 2
the need to hire more people on the island?
I 3
A I guess we have done it informally.
I think
'l 4
he would probably discuss those kinds of things I
[
5 directly with cary, rather than with me.
He might t
1 6
ask my advice, whether he hired them or didn't hire 7
them, but the decision didn't solely rest with me.
8 Q
Do you remember having discussions with 9
him concerning the need for more people?
10 A
Yes.
For example, he might ask for a certain I
11 classification, say, first class.
We weren't able 12 to get six first class.
Let us take the number six, UP for example.
14 Suppose we could get three first class, and 15 two apprentices, or some other classification.
I 16 would discuss that with him and say, "Well, this 17 is what we can give you.
Would th at be satis f actory?"
18 or "Can't you use those people?
Are they so low in 19 classification that they wouldn' t possibly be useful l
20 to you?", those kinds of things.
Then, from time to I
21 time, as he would need more, if he felt he needed l
22 more, then he would come back and say, "Could we 23 possibly get so-and-so back to be released?", which was. very rare.
"Could we get some more people for 24 one more week, for a particular week?", or some thing 25 BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
..m.,
1 Bodden 35 j
i 2
like that.
4 I
3 Q
During the time when Three Mile Island e
i 4
was being constructed, were you ever consulted con-5 corning the design?
l 6
A wo.
7 Q
You were never consulted concerning th e 8
design with respect to maintenance?
i 9
x no, 10 Q
You indicated, I believe, that Mr. Tro f fe r 11 initially worked under you?
12 A
Yes.
U Q
And that was prior to th e time that the 14 position of manager of ceneration Quality Assurance 15 even existed, correct?
16 A
No.
What happened was, Sandy Lawyer was QA t
17 manager, and Jack Herbein, now a vice president, 18 was Operations Manager.
Jack moved up to vice presi-19 dent and sandy moved over here to operations.
This 20 job was left vacant for a while.
1 21 Then I'm not sure just how long it was, but
(?
22 for several months they interviewed various people 23 and they interviewed coorge, and coorge took th e job.
24 Q
Your resume indicates that be tw ee n 1972 25 and 1975, sometime during that period, you were BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE 1
1 Bodden 36 l
2 responsible for developing and implementing quality 3
assurance activities at Three Mile Island.
1 4
A Probably prior to when we had the QA manager, 5
if my memory serves me right.
There was some time I
6 in '73 that the QA manager came on board.
That was 7
not Lawyer.
It was another individual.
8 Q
And once the position of manager of i
9 ceneration Quality Assurance was created, those 10 responsibilities were transferred to him?
I 11 A
As far as the' nuclear station was concerned.
1 12 He had very little to do with the fossil station.
13 Q
so, with respect to fossil stations, 14 that responsibility still rested with you?
15 A
Yes.
Eventually, I guess it would have gone 16 over to the QA manager.
17 Q
And presently, does the manager of 1
18 Generation Quality Assurance have a responsibility
)
l 19 fo r th e fossil stations and the nuclear stations?
i 20 A
Yes, he has people in the two big fossil stations l
1
(
21 right now.
(
22 Q
So the responsibility for quality assurance 23 does not fall on you presently?
24 A
I guess in the broad-brush o f quality as surance,
25 my group is re spo nsible for welding, for example.
B ENJAMIN REPORTING SERVICE n
~
1 Bodden 37 2
can you call that quality assurance?
where is the 3
definition, is what I'm asking.
The broad scope of 4
quality assurance, that is true.'
(?
5 o
when the maintenance procedures for Three 6
Mile Island were being developed, do you know if any 7
other nuclear plants' maintenance procedures were con-8 sulted?
9 A
I'm really not sure.
I don't think I can answer 10 that question.
11 Q
So th at, under you, between 1972 and 1975, 12 when those procedures were developed, you personally U
were not involved with that development?
14 A
I guess it vould be more like the PJM thing, 15 where it was general in scope.
we did touch base 16 on this once in a while, but not formally.
17 Q
So that those procedures were basically l
18 developed on the island?
19 x
y..,
20 Q
And th at would have been by Mr. shoviin?
l 21 A
Or his predecessor.
C, 22 Q
You were not on the island on March 28th, 23 were you7 24 A
No.
I was due to come on here.
We were putting 25 on some combustion turbines and additional capacity.
BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
1 Bodden 38 2
One of the sites was on an island or the Middletown 3
Junction.
I did come up here that mo rning with the 4
full intent of coming on the is1End, and I got as 5
far as the observation center and never got on.
1 6
Actually, I never got on.
7 Q
What time was that?
8 A
I met some individual from GPU at 8:30 at the 9
observation center, and we did go to the substation, 10 the Middletown Junction substation, and spent a lot 11 o f time there.
12 We were trying to get siting of these for the 13 combustion terminals with the idea that it would be 14 cranking up power for the Three Mile Island in the 15 event of a blackout.
That was part of the rationale
~
16 for putting them here.
17 so we also had wanted to come on the upper and 18 o f th e island because th at was one of the other areas
~
19 we were considering at th e time, of course, we didn't 20 get on.
21 Q
when you came here at'about 8:30, you 22 said you went to the observation center?
23 A
Well, I came to the north gate, as I always 24 did, and it was locked.
Of course, I told th em, 25 and I don't think the guard remembered me, and then B EN ! AMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
9 1
Bodden 39 2
I spoke to an individual from Parsippany who said, 3
"They're up at the observation center."
I was sur-4 prised when I got up there to see the mob.
C 5
Q And what were you told when you got to 6
the observation center?
7 A
I was told there was an emergency on the island.
8 So we decided that until whatever the problem was got i
9 resolved, we might as well go out to Middletown Junction 10 where we cou1d at least complete some of the activity 11 we came up for that day.
12 Q
So, you left at that point to go up to 13 Middletcwn Junction 7 14 A
I guess it was about 11:00 o' clock when I 15 finally came back to the observation center.
someone 16 told me th at there probably wasn' t any possibility of 17 my getting on the i sl an'd.
We looked at the scale 18 model of the island and did what we could do.
At 19 that time, it was then about 11:30.
I had to get 20 back to Reading for a 1:00 o' clock meeting, anyhow.
21 Q
Do you remember who told you there was 22 probably no possibility you could get on the island?
23 A
The fellow in charge o f the observation center, 2%
and I'can't think of his name now, Ken something-or-25 other.
It was a fellow in the observation center.
B ENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
~-
1 Bodden 40 2
Q So, you left the area about 11:00 o' clock?
3 A
About 11:00 or 11:15 to go back to Reading for 4
a 1:00 o' clock meeting.
4 5
0 And since that time, were you asked to 6
co*e back to assist?
g 7
A No, ma'am.
I have only been up here two o r 3
three times.
Since that time, I told Jack that I 9
would concentrate on our operations of fossil stations.
10 I would keep him advised on my day-to-day activity, 11 which I have done'ver since.
I hardly spoke to him e
12 after that becaus e I was n' t involved in anything 13 with what was going on up here.
14 Q
You have not been i.. olved at all with 15 the recovery e f fort on the island?
16 A
No more than supply'ing a few of my people from.
17 time to time.
Personally, I guess, is what you really 18 mean, no.
19 Q
And you have been asked to supply some 20 people?
21 A
Yes..
l
(?
22 Q
About how many people?
l 23 A
well, I have six people working with me nd 24 they have been shuttling in and out.
25 Q
All six people have been utilized?
BENJAMIN R EPORTING S ERVICE y
I Bodden 41 2
A Yes.
One fellow is still up here.
I want to 3
get him back.
4 Q
And basically, your p'ersonal responsibili-5 ties have been to oversee th e fossil fuel stations?
6 A
Yes.
7 Q
since March 28th, have you made any kind 8
of statements concerning the incident?
9 A
No.
. P ublicly ?
10 Q
nave you been interviewed by anybody con-11 carning that incident?
12 A
I was only interviewed once by a section of your U
committee.
That was when Dan shovlin and I went in 14 because they were interested in how the maintenance 15 procedures worked at the station and what my partici-16 pation was.
That is the only time.
17 Q
And you haven't been interviewed by the 18 NRC7 19 3
go, 20 Q
You have not been asked to prepare any 21 kind of memorandum with respect to issues arising 22 out o f the March 28th incident?
23 x
so,.....,
24 Q
And you have not prepared any menorandum 25 on your own?
i BENJAMIN REPORTING SERVICE l
l F
1 E
.I Bodden 42 2
A No, j
3 Ms. coLoraANK:
I would like at this 4
time to recess this deposition.
I have no
' Gl')
- f 5
rurther questions at this time, but it is f
4dir 6
possible that we would ask you to come back, d
I 7
althaugh I don't anticipate such.
i 8
(The deposition was adjourned at 9:30 a.m.)
' u 9
10 7
11 b u.ijh- :.':?2'-- :.- ; Y.::-----
Hugh Edward Sodden 12 13 subscribed and sworn to I
14 before me this /I
- day
[gyes/
15 og
- 3979, 16 f
~ 65-f.!.tif 1, 17 Notary Public /'
,3..
19
~-
. :,.. ;sz 20 1
21
)
22 23 24 1
25 B ENJAMIN R EPCRTING SERVICE
--e-
1 Bodden 42 2
x no.
3 Ms. coLorRANK:
I would like at this 4
time to recess this deposition.
I have no C-5 further questions at this time, but it is 6
possible that we would ask you to come back, 7
although.I don't anticipate such.
8 (The deposition was adjourned at 9:30 a.m.)
9 10 11 Hugh Edward Bodden 12 13 subscribed and sworn to 14 before me this day 15 og
- 1979,
~
16 17 Notary Public 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l
BENJAMIN R EPORTING SERVICE
1 43 2
IN DgX 3
WITNESS DIRECT 4
Hugh Edward Bodden 2
C'~
5 6
I E.X H I 3 ITS 0
BODDEN DEPOSITION FOR IDENTIFICATION PAGE 9
10 90 Resume o f Hugh E.
Bodden 3
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BENJAMIN R EPO RTING SERVICE 4
1 44 2
STATE OF NEW YORK
)
- ss.:
3 COUNTY OF NEW YORK
)
4 C
5 I, STANLEY RUDBARG, certified Shorth' nd a
6 Reporter and Notary Public o f the Sta te of New 7
York, do hereby certify that th e foregoing depo-O sition of METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY by HUGH 9
EDWARD BODDEN was taken before me on the~3rd day 10 of August, 1979 11 The said witness was duly sworn before the 12 commencement of his testimony.
The said testimony U
taken stenographically by me and then tran-was 14 scribed.
15 The within transcript is a true re co rd o f 16 the said ' eposition.
d 17 I am not related by blood or marriage to 18 any of the said parties nor interested directly 19 or indirectly in the matter in controversys nor 20 am I in the employ of any of the counsel.
21 C
IN WITNESS WHE RE OF, I have hereunto set 22 my hand this day of August, 1979.
~
23 24
--l.....-----
- l!!b-----
STANLEY RUDB G,
C.S.R.
25 BENJAMIN REPORTING SERVICE
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE %SLAND j
Corrections to August 3, 1979, Deposition of Hugh E. Bodden
- Page, Line Change To Read 2
25 Bonton Boone 4
16&l7 new line 24 & 25 4
19 beginning I don't to end to new line 16 line 25 4
25 operated obtained 5
17 aligned realigned 6
2 add after tail end of the time 7
13 cross out one "had" 11 13 cross out other 11 13 we they 11 18 they we 13 5
cross out in 13 5
these this 13 6
are is 13 6
cross out ways the & is 13 7
cross out turn around and 13 10 would do 13 22 cross out like 14 2
cross out "but it hasn't been really too successful" 14 4
cross out to have gotten
)
14 11 Eiler Ey).or,-
,.,./
~ %, s.4.
Hugh E. Bodden Subscribed and ssorn to before me this /# day of
&fd'ST~
l' / I,.l fur' -Z' fy G$t.f., '
, 19J7
)
1 Notary Public //
3;c:w s.ste
=... ge; *e 3...
- =*y
- q.
J-= U. ; - * *.
s M ' 4,.
- 6 E.
I
i
\\
=
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE I
ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE ISLMID Corrections to August 3, 1979, Deoosition of Hugh E. Bodden P
- Page, Line Change To Read e
14 13 ter=4 n=1 =
tursines
' 14 17 cross out always 15 12 he Paul Christ: nan 15 19 cross out then 15.
19
.have_to must 15 24 contracts contractors 15 24 stuff M&S 16 5
cross out in to'to 20 3
cross out work 20
.9
. applicant assigned 23 13 cross out "I dic.s't have that" 23 18 cross out "if they had a problem" 23 21 cross out where 24 11 present pressing 24 14 cross out "It is.a sister station, a nuclear station" 24 15 cross out station 24' 19 cross out "I sent our" 24 20 cross out ":naintenance manager,
up"
~
r i
.l
.w.
Hugh E. Sodden Subscribed and sworn to before me this / 8 " day n
of.e u.e3 {,, 1979 i lc,,fbo<'t d'.Mej4 A
('
n I
a Notary Public JC'1:Y CUBCO
.......'..;.e,p..sc:.~v n.
2 -.a:.a b:. n :..cw J. 9&A 1
I
=
PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE ISLAND Corrections to August 3, 1979, Deposition of Hugh E. Bodden Pase Line Change To Re*d a
~25 4
cross out "you know" 26 21 anticipation the future 30 20 cross out "I don't want to
- nake it" 30 22 loan load 31 2
cross out " system" 37 2
where What
. 37 25 on in 38 2
an the 38 2
add after or at 38
~ 13 ter:ninals turbines 39 2
to of 39 2
who the guard 40 13 with what that 41_
9 __
. cross out " Publicly?"
Hugh E. 3odden l
Subscribed and sworn to i
before :na this /S" day a
of N o'pa;-*
1979 4
T rl
'G
/ b?hn _.
i 8 si,Csj >f Noc'ary Public NOTARY 8UBUC
.,um eq !.o. teres Cavafv. ?s.
'.h Cammiss.cn tores Jeum.wr 14.13M
. -. -