ML19308C444
| ML19308C444 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 09/13/1979 |
| From: | Frampton G, Lazarus W NRC - NRC THREE MILE ISLAND TASK FORCE, NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001240600 | |
| Download: ML19308C444 (16) | |
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NUCLEAR R
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I IN THE /A ATTER OF:
l ISLAND ION MILE SPECIAL INQUIRY DEPOSIT k
THREE l
WILLIAM J. LAZARUS DEPOSITION OF :
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KING OF PRUSSIA, PA.
P cg o s 1 16 Ploce -
13, 1979 SEPTEMBER Octe.
Telephone:
(202)347 3~CO O
C ACE FEDERALREPORTERS,IN.
Offickt Repor:ers
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NATIONWIDE COVERAGE DA!!.Y
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION (T
SPECIAL INQUIRY GROUP
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l King Of Prussia, Pennsylvania l
September 13, 1979 i
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l Deposition of WILLIAM J. LAZARUS, held at the offices of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Region I, 631 Park i
j Avenue, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, at 2:30 P.M.,
on the above date, before Wanda L.
Page, a Registered Q
\\'^J Prof =ssional Reporter, Notary Public and Approved Reporter of the U.S.
District Court.
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SPECIAL INQUIRY GROUP MEMBERS :
GEORGE T. FRAMPTON, JR., ESQ.
q GEORGE RIVEMBARK PETER SICILIA, JR.
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WITNESS PAGE 3
. WILLIAM J. LAZARUS 41 By Mr. Frampton 3, 13
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.o By Mr. Rivenbark 9
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By Mr. Sicilia 12 i'
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l MR. FRAMPTON:
This is a deposition being
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2l taken by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission's 3
Special Inquiry Group on Three Mile Island, on 4!
September 13, 1979, of Mr. William Lazarus, who is k.sI an Inspector in NRC's Region I, operating out of 5
6li Region I Headquarters.
7 The deposition is being taken at King of 8
Prussia, Pennsylvania, and present in addition to 9
Mr. Lazarus are George Frampton, George Rivenbark and 10 Peter Sicilia, all of the Special Inquiry Group.
11 George, would you swear the witness.
1 t
12 13 WILLIAM J. LAZARUS, having been first duly i
14 !
sworn, is examined and testifies as follows:
l 15 i t
i 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. FRAMPTON:
17 Q
Mr. Lazarus, you, I believe, received a letter a
18 dated August 28th from Mr. Rogovin, who is the Director 19 of the Special Inquiry Group, setting forth something 20 about the purposes of this interview and your rights l
21 with respect to it; is that correct?
23 A
That's correct.
23 Q
Have you read that and do you understand it?
24
.A Yes, I do.
25 Q
Could you tell us what your present position. is with l
FC$TER COURT R E PO R TING SERVICE. INC
William J. Lazarus 4
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the NRC7 2l A
I'm a Reactor Inspector in the Reactor Operations 3
Nuclear Support Branch.
I'm the Principal or Project 4i Inspector for Man Yankee, Yankee Rowe and Connecticut
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5 Yankee.
6l Q
Are you alternate Principal Inspector for any plants?
7!
A Yes.
I believe by the latest list I'm Backup Inspector 8l for Three Mile Island Units I and II, and I believe that's 9
it right now.
We had a recent change, organizational.
10 Q
How long have you been Backup Inspector for TMI?
11 A
Approximately two years.
12 Q
During that period of time how many times, if you O
13-can recall, have you actually inspected at TMI, either 14 Unit I or Unit II?
j 15 A
None.
16 Q
Have you ever inspected there?
A I inspected Unit I as a Specialist Inspector prior 17 l d
18 to that period of time, and I made one visit to Unit II 19 as a familiarization visit for myself about two years ago.
20 Q
That was at the time you became Backup Inspector?
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21 A
Right.
No inspection was involved except to go with O
the Principal Inspector and learn my way around the plant 22 and see what was going on.
23 AU Q
Other than that visit, you don't have any substantial g
familiarity with Unit II?
25 FOSTER COURT R E POR TI NG $ E RVIC E. INC
William J.
Lazarus 5
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I A
No, I don't.
2 Q
Would you say you're pretty f amiliar with Unit I?
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3l A
No, I wouldn't.
The area -- the specialist inspection 4
I was doing was in the area of procedural review, calib-
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5i ration surveillance testing; a fairly narrow inspection 6
area.
I!
Q How long have you been with the NRC?
8*
A Four years.
1 9
Q Have you been here in Region I during that period?
10 A
Yes.
11 Q
What were you doing before then?
12 A
I was in the U.S. Navy.
O-13 Q
For what period of time?
14 A
For a period of time -
graduated from the Naval i
15 '
Academy 1965, and was in the Navy from 1965 to June 1975.
1G Q
Mr. Haverkamp was the Principal Inspector for TMI 17 at the time of the accident, was he_ not?
C 18 A
That's correct.
19 Q
Besides Mr. Haverkamp, do you know what other in-20 dividuals in Region I at the time of the Three Mile Island (5) l 21 accident were people who would be likely to be pretty
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22 familiar with Unit II, if anyone?
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23 A
I think Mr. Haverkamp in the Operations Branch would 24 be the one most familiar.
I can't think of any who would l
25 approach his level of knowledge of the plant.
I don't l
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resten couar aracarmo scavice mp
William J.
Lazarus 6
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O tl don't who was in the Construction Branch as f ar as the 2
construction area.
3 Q
As far as operations are concerned, as far as you know, 4'
Don Haverkamp would be likely to be the most familiar?
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5f A
Right.
Of course, there's Paul Kellogg in Region 6j II before him.
He was a Project Inspector that Haverkamp 7l relieved.
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8i Q
Mr. Kellogg, is he now in another Region?
9 A
Yes, Region II.
j 10 Q
Did you have a role in the Region's response to the 11 Three Mile Island accident?
12 A
Yes, I did.
O 13!
O Maybe you can describe briefly, sort of summarize your 14 actions and role over the period of the first four or five 15 days after the accident began.
I 16l A
I think it was for about the first five days, starting 3
17 i at midnight on the 29th.
I had the midnight until eight i
18 a.m. watch in our Emergency Response Center along with 19 at least one other Inspector and E.B. Mc Cabe was the 20 Section Chief on duty.
I think we had a Branch Chief but I don't remember the complete manning of the Center.
21 O
The main duties in the Response Center were manning 3
the open line telephone that we had established that had 23
'O 24 I.E. Headquarters and Three Mile Island Control Room on 25 the line.
i William J. Lazarus 7
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1 We were, for the most part, still gathering information 2
and updating the status board and trying to determine, you 3
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know, the condition of the plant, getting all the informa-4 p.
tion we could trying to put a complete picture together 5l of what the status of the reactor was, the core, so that 6'
we had the information available to us for planning 7-purposes as we went along.
l 8l Q
You were on Thursday midnight until when on Friday?
9 A
Eight a.m. Friday.
10 0
Then were you on again later Friday or Saturday?
11 i A
I came in at midnight again Friday, and I think this 12 continued through the weekend up until Monday or Tuesday, 13 the midnight watch each night, i
14 Q
Do you recall at the end of that midnight Thursday 15l to eight a.m. Friday shift any notification about the 16 !
release that occurred Friday morning that caused a' great 17 deal of commotion later on?
18 ;
A I have no notes but I can recall events, and I believe 19 we did have notification of that.
I know there were
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20 several releases, or words of releases, during that period
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Do you have a recollection that during that shift 23 there were a number of releases, that first night that O
24 I'm talking about now?
25 A
Yes, I believe so.
rosrea couar areentmo scavice. me
William J. Lazarus 8
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O Thursday night and early Friday morning?
2!
A Yes.
(j 3
Q You recall there were some releases during that (3-4j period?
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5 A
Yes.
l 6l Q
Was that the first shift that you had been on in the 7'
Incident Response Center here?
8' A
Yes.
9 0
What can you recall now of your recollection about 10 those releases?
11 Do you remember whether the people in the Control 12 Room would report that they were about to have some kind 13 of release, or a release had occurred, or were they re-14 porting monitoring data?
15,
A We were getting monitoring data; I don't know if it 16 was from the Control Room.
I know there were Arms 17 Helicopters in the area.
I can't give you specifics as c
I 18 '
to who was reporting what or any of the details on the 19 releases from my recollection.
l 20 Q
But you recall there were a number of releases that i
21 were reported?
l 22 A
Yes.
Again, I'm not sure if it was the first night 23 or the second night or what timeframe we're talking about O
2; because there were several that we know of during that 25 period of time.
rostra..couar nepopriNa scavice iNe
William J.
LaZartu 9
l E M INATION BY MR. RIVENBARK:
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Q Do you recall reports coming into the Region of what
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==ed to do or wa e ese 11o a ev 1u -
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tion of the situation was?
5l I'm talking about that kind of a report in the broad I
6 context as opposed to the pressure on the primary coolant Il system, 1500 pounds?
8 A
No.
I think most of the information they were getting 9
was very detailed information.
We were keeping records 10 of thermocouple temperatures and pressures and information 11 like that.
As far as our level of response, we weren't 12 getting a lot of planning information, at least at my O
13l level, that I'm cognizant of.
14 I don't remember any details of assessments by the 15 licensee of the event coming in, at least during that IG period of time we're talking.about..It may have come in 17 through other communication paths, but as far as coming in j
l 18 over the phones that we were manning, I'm not aware of.
19 Q
Were evaluations from the NRC OIT Inspectors coming 20 in, as opposed to data?
21 A
By OIT I'm not sure what you mean.
22 Q
The on-site inspection team, the I.E. people who were 23 on site, were they making evaluations and calling those l
24 in, or were they calling in plant parameter data, this sort 25 of thing, to the best of your k"nowledge?
i FOSTER COURT R E PO R TI N G S E R VIC E INC j
William J.
Lazaruc 10 1
A Mostly, they were calling in plant parameters and I did 2
not hear much in the way of evaluatiens of the situation.
3 0
Were you filling out message forms when you were 4'
manning telephones?
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A Yes.
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Q Were you also talking to IIeadquarters?
7 A
IIeadquarters was on the line at the same time.
So, 8
they were getting the information.
j D
Q On the line at the same time?
10 A'
Right.
11 Q
Do you recall IIsadquarters asking for information in 12 the context of systems performance or asking to get 0
13 evaluations, broader scope questions than asking for 14 single pieces of data like the temperature of this item 15l or the pressure of that item?
i 16i A
No, and I didn't really miss that because I thought i
17 they were using the information we were passing to them to j
18 I do their own evaluations.
They were gathering specific 19 information so that they could evaluate.
So, I didn't l
hear much in the way of evaluations being passed back and 20
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l 21 forth because I assumed it was being done as they rer-O I
22 information at their end.
23 Q
Do you recall any instructions coming from IIeadquarters
' O 21 for specific actions to be taken as opposed to gathering 25 data?
l FC$TER COURT REPORTING S ERvlCE. INC j
i William J. Lazarus 11 A
I can't recall anything specific, no.
2:
O Do you know why you weren't sent to the site?
O
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I don e thinx ther fe1t enz need to send me to the 4
site.
I had no great level of the knowledge of the plant
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5 layout or plant operations.
Only the people that manned 6!
the Incident Response Center here.
So, I was not surprised II that I was not sent.
8j I think I was more surprised that Don Haverkamp wasn't 9
sent immediately to the site since he was the expert, or 10 at least he knew more about the plant operations.
But 11 they were using him here in the Response Center because of 12 that reason.
So, it was kind of whether to let him go 13l out there or keep him here.
I thought he would have been 14 better off at the site as far as being able to pass 15 information to us.
16,
Q Your four years with the NRC, were they all right in 17 this Region?
18 A
Yes.
19 Q
Since this Region supposedly has no other B&W plants 20 other than TMI I, presumably you have no experience with h,9 I
- 1 other B&W plants?
U 22 A
No, I don't.
23 MR.,RIVENBARK:
No further questions.
O 24 25 resren couar nepoarms scavice isc
William J. Lazarus 12 i
1 EXAMINATION BY MR. SICILIA:
2' O
Let me just clear a few points up.
3 You said that starting at twelve o' clock Thursday 4!
night into eight o' clock Friday morning, you were manning
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5l the communications lines and updating the status boards; i
6 is that correct?
7 A
That's correct.
8l Q
Do you know if on Wednesday they were maintaining 9
and updating the status boards?
10 A
Yes, during the day.
11 Q
And on Thursday?
12 A
Yes.
It continued.
13 Q
The communication line that you were manning, which line was it?
Was it the operations line, the HP line?
14l 15 A
The operations.
16 Q
Do you know whom you were communicating with on the I
g Friday morning shift at the site?
13 A
I believe it was Bill Raymond.
19 '
Q And at Headquarters?
i
.'O A
I don't recall.
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Q Do you know who was manning the HP line that morning, ol l
Friday morning?
j 22 A
I believe it was Lee Thonus, but I'm not sure.
23 i
24 Q~
Getting back to the status boards that were being updated and maintained -- you said they were being l
25 l
FOSTER COURT R E PO SP TIN G $[RVICE, lNC
i William J.
Lazarus 13
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Il maintained, reporting plant status and the parameters 2I of the plant -- based 7n the information that was coming
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in, was that coming in based on request from Region I, 3
4' 3
the plant status?
5l A
No.
To my knowledge, it was coming on request from 6i Headquarters, and the Region was recording the information 7-parallel with Headquarters.
3 Q
Did the information come in that wasn 't requested?
9 In other words, if there was not a question, did the status tol periodically still come in?
l 11 l A
Oh, yes.
It had gotten to the point very early that 12 l they were reporting every hour, a series of team tours y
13 that had been requested and other parameters that were 14 !
asked for, and they were asked to be reported on an hourly l
15 basis, and they were calling them in autanatically each i
IG i hour.
I 17 Q
When did that procedure begin, do you know?
a 18 A
To the best of my knowledge, it was in effect when 19 I came on midnight that first night, Thursday night.
20 '
MR. SICILIA:
Nothing else.
91 22 EXAMINATION BY MR. FRAMPTON:
23 Q
Region I as well as Headquarters has its own Emergency
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24 Response Plan, does it?
'~
25 A
Yes.
FOSTER COURT REPORTING SE R VIC E. INC
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William J.
Lazarus 14 (m,)
Q Have you ever trained on that in any fashion? Have I
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you had any drills here or discussions or seminars about
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3 how it would be implemented in an actual problem case?
4 A
Yes.
We had training sessions and the plant had N
been exercised.
Individual Inspectors did not necessarily 5
i 6l get involved in the exercise that was done.
It was more i
I of communications exercise between the Branch and Section l
8l Chiefs and the people who would be part of the incident, l
9 the initial information gathering here in the Region.
10 Q
How was that done?
Do you recall a specific instance 11 of that being done?
12 A
I recall a specific instance of it being done but 13 when it was I couldn't tell you.
14 0
Was that with a particular plant?
i 15 A
I.believe so.
10 Q
But not TMI?
17 A
They may have simulated the calls in from the plant.
18 I don't know if the plant was involved directly or not.
I 10 Q
Do you know whether the plant that was used for the 20 drill or the training was one of the Three Mile Island l
21 Units?'
22 A
No, I don't.
23 Q
But you recall that being done?
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24 A
I recall an exercise of the Incident Response Organiza-25 tion. in accordance with the plan which had recently come FOSTER COURT R E POR TI N G SERVICE INC
ii William J. Lazarus 15 I
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1 out being done.
2 0
This was soon af ter the plan had been issued?
()
3l A
Right.
4 Q
The purpose of it, I take it, was to exercise the 5,
NRC people rather than the plant people?
6' A
That's correct.
My understanding was mainly just i
7l to exercise the ability to inform everybody, you know, 8i communications part of it, gathering people together.
9i I don't know how much farther it went beyond that.
10 Q
Do you know who from Region I participated in that?
11 Was it a small number of people, large number of people?
12 A
Fairly small number.
I think it was mainly the 13 Branch and Section Chiefs who were involved.
14l Q
Do you have any idea why Mr. Haverkamp didn't go to i
15l the site the first day?
i 16 l A
No, I never asked anybody or was told.
I assumed I
17 they thought his knowledge of the plant would be more 18 '
valuable in the Emergency Response Center.
l 19 Q
Do you have any idea whether he was involved and used 20 from this end?
h 91 A
oh, yes.
He was available immediately in the Emergency f,)
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22 Response Center the morning, Wednesday the 28th. So, he was aware of communications that were coming in.
23 O
24 Q
Do you know what his role was?
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25 A
' No, I don't.
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l William J.
Lazarus 16 O
1 xa. raanreos:
1 ehimk esee.s e11 ese 2i questions we have for you.
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3' Thank you very much.
4 (The deposition is concluded at 3:00 p.m.)
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