ML19308C428
| ML19308C428 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 09/14/1979 |
| From: | Ronald Bellamy, Dienelt J, Mcconnell J METROPOLITAN EDISON CO., NRC - NRC THREE MILE ISLAND TASK FORCE |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 8001240577 | |
| Download: ML19308C428 (38) | |
Text
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N U CL E A R R E G U L ATO R'/ CO MMI S S!O N e
O a
i IN THE MATTER OF:
i, THREE MILE ISLAND SPECIAL INTERVIEWS 1
I l
INTERVIEW OF JAMES F.
MC CONNELL o
300R OR G NAL 1
Place -
Middletown, Pennsylvania Date -
Friday, September 14, 1979 Pages 1 - 37 4
i i
Teiecnone:
(*02)347 3700 ACE - FEDERAL REPORTERS,INC.
OffiaalReponers 44 North Capitol Street i
Washington, D.C. 20001
[
NATIONWIDE COVERAGE. DAILY
1 CR? [fhf 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 9-1 -79 LR 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1rw 3
X
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4 In the Matter of:
5 THREE MILE ISLAND SPECIAL INTERVIEWS 6
X 7
8 INTERVIEW OF JAMES F.
MC CONNELL 9
Trailer #11 10 Three Mile Island Middletown, Pennsylvania 11 Friday, September 14, 1979 12 APPEARANCES:
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13 For the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
k_/
14 RON BELLAMY 15 Principal Interviewer:
16 JOHN F.
DIENELT, ESQ.
1025 Connecticut Avenue N.W.
17 Washington, D.C.
20036 18 For Metropolitan Edison:
19 DELISSA A.
RIDGWAY, ESQ.
20 21
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(~N 24 ice k dI Resmners Inc.
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_C _O _N _T _E _N _T _S 1
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INTERVIEW OF:
EXAMINATION 3
James F. McConnell 3
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6 EXHIBITS I
7 MARKED i
EXHIBIT NUMBER:
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3020 A
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P_ R_ O C_ E_ E_ D I N_ G S_ :
(2:20 P.M.)
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2 MR. DIENELT:
On the record.
Ron, will you swear the x
3 witness?
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(
)
4 Whereupon, 5
JAMES F. MC CONNELL 6
having first been duly sworn, was examined and testified as 7
follows:
8 BY MR. DIENELT:
9 Q
Will you state your full name and business address, 10 please?
II A
James Franklin McConnell; 260 Cherry Hill Road, 12 Parsippany, New Jersey.
13 O
Let me show you a copy of a letter which has been
(,,')
\\J I4 introduced as Exhibit 3010.
Have you had an opportunity to 15 review that letter or a copy of it?
16 A
Yes.
17 Q
Do you understand the contents of the letter?
18 A
Yes.
I9 Q
You should also be aware that the testimony "nu are 20 giving today has the same force and effect as if you were 21 testifying in court.
Our questions and your responses are 22 being taken down and will be transcribed and you will have an 7y U
23 opportunity, if you wish, to review the transcript and make 24 any changes in it that you feel are necessary, but if you make pea $t Reporters, Inc.
l 25 changes of a substantial or significant nature as opposed to I
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corrections of misspellings or inclusion of words that were
)
2 omitted, the changes you make could be viewed as affecting 3
your credibility, so it is important for you to understand the
(,
4 questions so you can give full and complete answers.
If you 5
don' t understand the question, let me know and I will rephrase 6
it or attempt to clarify it.
7 We also ask you to allow me to finish my question before 8
you answer, even though you know what the question is.
That 9
way, the court reporter will be able to get a clearer record 10 down of your testimony.
11 Have you testified about any aspect of the TMI incident 12 which began on March 28, 1979 before today?
em.
13 A
No.
L/
14 Q
Have you had any interviews regarding that incident 15 which were tape recorded, to your knowledge?
16 A
No.
17 Q
What is your current job title?
18 A
Manager, Technology Assessment and Development, GPU 19 Service Corporation.
20 Q
Do you have a resume?
21 A
Yes.
(m.
22 MR. DIENELT:
Will you mark that as 3020?
1 i
s 23 (Exhibit 3020 marked.)
24 BY MR. DIENELT:
Ace F4i Reporters, Inc.
25 Q
We have marked a two-page document as Exhibit 3020.
I i
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Can you identify that?
2 A
Yes.
3 0
What is it?
(
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A My resume.
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Q Is it current?
6 A
Roughly so.
7 Q
Do you recall when it was prepared?
8 A
About three years ago.
9 Q
This is in your handwriting?
10 A
Yes.
Il Q
TA&D?
12 A
Technology Assessment and Development.
13 0
When in 1979 did you assume your current position?
( )
U 14 A
It was either November or December of '78 or early 15
'79.
I don't recall exactly when the paperwork was done.
16 Q
What are the duties of that position?
17 A
To coordinate research and development and technology 18 assessment for the GPU system.
19 Q
When did you first become aware of the TMI incident?
I 20 A
Wednesday morning.
21 Q
The first day of the incident?
22 A
Yes.
I i
a 23 Q
How did you learn of the incident?
24 A
I guess I read a news release in the Lt. Governor's Ace.
Reporters. Inc.
25 outer office.
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Q How did you happen to be at the Lt. Governor's outer 1
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2 office?
On another matter?
uj 3
A Yes.
That failed to materialize.
I 4
Q Did there come a time when you assumed some responsi-j
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bility for dealing with any aspect of the incident at Three i
6 Mile Island?
7 A
Would you repeat the beginning of the question?
8 Q
Did there come a time when you assumed some responsi-9 bility -- substantive responsibility -- with respect to Three 10 Mile Island?
11 A
Yes.
12 O
When was that?
13 A
Sometime in early April.
The specific day, I don't t
i 14 recall.
It was in the waste management area.
15 Q
Will you elaborate on what your responsibilities 16 were, sir?
17 A
I was generally involved with the people that were 18 formulating the waste management group and its activities.
19 Q
How did you come to have that responsibility?
20 A
It was evolutionary.
I first came to the site on --
21 I went over to the National Guard facility at Olmstead for 22 several days and I was asked -- I can't recall by who -- to
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23 help.
Probably Bob Keaton.
I was asked to help assist with 24 formulating the waste management group, which was identified ce-F Reporters, Inc.
25 as one of the several technical areas we were organizing i
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I ourselves into.
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~ C1 Q
Who was Bob Keaton?
3 A
I believe he is Manager of Engineering.
And Dick 4
Wilson.
5 Q
Who is he?
6 A
Service Company Director of Technical -- he is in 7
.the Generation Division.
8 Q
Of?
9 A
The service company.
10 0
GPU or Met Ed?
A GPU.
12 Q
Who is your immediate supervisor?
13 A
Terry Ferrar.
Id Q
What is his position?
15 A
Director of System Planning.
16 Q
When did you first come to TMI after March 28?
I7 A
Sunday morning, April 1.
18 0
Why did you come at that time?
19 A
I was requested by my management.
20 0
Who specifically asked you to come?
21 A
I believe it was Bud Cherry.
22 Q
What is his position?
23 A
Vice President, Corporate Planning.
24 b,(A l
0 Did he tell you why he wanted you to come?
j Reporters, Inc.
j 25 A
Not specifically; simply to contribute to the i
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situation.
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2 O
Was there anyone who you were asked or told to report 3
to when you arrived at the site?
(~(j) 4 A
Bob Keaton.
5 Q
From the time, of your arrival until you became in-6 volved in the waste management effort, what did you do?
7 A
I joined Bob Keaton and we were working with the 8
industrial advisory group at Olmstead.
My function there was 9
to --- I could best describe it as helping to pool information, 10 provide information to the various outside consultants and so Il forth that were gathering and working in the advisory group.
12 Q
Any specific kind of information you were gathering?
13 A
No; it was quite ad hoc.
14 0
Were you gathering information in response to re-15 quests that outside groups had made?
16 A
People.
Basically, what people were asking for.
17 O
These were industry consultants as opposed to the 18 press, for example.
I9 A
Yes.
20 Q
How long did you remain at TMI?
21 A
From April 1 to about May 27.
22 Q
From the time you became involved in the formulation js(-)
'23 of the waste management effort, what responsibilities did you 24
.,3 hold up to May 27?
?ced 3 Reporters, Inc.
25 A
Well, I guess once the waste management group was I
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organized from a general organization.intp specific components, 2
I became responsible for waste gas.
3 Q
Waste gas disposal?
)
4 A
Just the general area of waste gas.
I guess 5
" disposal" is appropriate.
More management control.
6 Q
Control and management is what you are saying?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
Did you have a title?
9 A
Not that I recall.
10 0
Was there a chairman or person in charge of the
-Il waste management group?
12 A
There were a series of people.
In the beginning, 13 there were several executives from Commonwealth Edison who O
Id moved-in and out in administrative charge of that particular 15 group.
16 0
Who followed them?
17 A
I believe Ben Rushe.
18 Q
How long did he remain as the person in charge of I9 that effort?
20 A
He was in charge when I left.
I believe he is more 21 of a consultant now.
22 O
During the period of time you were involved in the Q
23 waste management _ effort, to whom did you report?
24 A
Initially, the Commonwealtn people.
Subsequent to hFrO Reporters, Inc.
U 25 that, I guess it was Ben Rushe.
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Q Were you familiar with the radwaste systems and
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2 filters at TMI-2 prior to the-tire you arrived on site?
3 A
No, except in a very general sense.
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4 Q
How did you set about to find out what you needed to 5
know about them?
6 A
We were dealing with people from the plant, people 7
from the architect engineer, outside experts and consultants.
8 Q
Do I take it from your answer that you learned what 9
you felt you needed to know by talking to them and asking them 10 questions?
II A
That's correct.
Maybe to expand on the point:
The 12 waste management group was made up of a complicated group of 13 GPU system people and outside specialists.
It just naturally 7.,
V 14 formed into where people's expertise lay, where particular 15 problems were identified.
I'm trying to describe a rather 16 unstructured ad hoc kind of approach.
17 Q
What was the status of the auxiliary and fuel hand-18 ling building filters, if you know, when you arrived at the 19 site?
20 A
I guess I would have to answer that by prefacing it.
21 It probably was three or four days before I ended up having an 22 interest in the filters.
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23 Q
Let me rephrase it and ask you what the status of 24 them was when you first became interested in them and learned ha-dlkRoomrs,W.
l 25 of the status.
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A The aux building filters?
( s) 2 Q
And the fuel handling building filters.
s 3
A Well, it was known that they were in operation.
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4 The effectiveness of them was rather uncertain.
5 Q
Did you participate in any efforts to determine with 6
greater certainty what the effectiveness of them was?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
What was done?
9 A
We attempted to do sample gas flows in and out of 10 those, attempted to evaluate their performance.
11 O
Were you able to do so?
12 A
Over a period of time, yes, that was accomplished.
13 Q
A moment ago you used a word "we" in the context of s
%)
14 saying "we attempted to do" some sampling.
Who is "we?"
15 A
"We" represents the contractors, SAI being one of 16 them, people from Oak Ridge, ORNL and plant people.
1 17 Q
Were the filters tested during the period between 18 April 1 and May 27?
19 A
I guess I'm trying to understand the question.
They 20 were changed out but, as I recall, there were no specific per-1 i
21 formance tests run on ' the filter systems.
The charcoal trays 22 were sent offsite for testing and evaluation to determine 23 their capability.
24 Q
Why were the filters changed out?
73 a-F Reporters, Inc.
25 A
They were changed out because they were judged to be 1
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not as effective as new filters would be.
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0 Who made that judgment?
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A That judgment was arrived at by myself and consultants
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and management.
5 0
Who gave the direction to change out the filters?
6 A
The decision to change out the filters I guess came 7
from Bob Arnold.
8 Q
Did you discuss it with him?
9 1.
I discussed it with him.
10 Q
Do you recall when the filters were changed out?
II A
Attempts were made -- at least, the evolution of 12 changing them began in the first few days of April and extended 13 over several weeks.
It was a difficult evolution to accom-pg V
I4
'plish.
It was a high radiation area, inaccescible in a radio-15 logical sense.
16 Q
Do you know whether any log, diary or notes with
'17 respect to changing out was maintained?
18 A
I would judge that the best two sources of that log 19 are John Collins from NRC, who followed it closely, and 20 probably John Bauchover from Met Ed Maintenance, who likewise 21 maintained a daily log.
22 g
Did you maintain any_ kind of diary or log of your
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- activities?
24 r
/^S A
I have some rough notes.
Sometimes I did and some-kce ? } Reporters, Inc.
25 times I didn't.
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Q Do you have it with you?
-s( )
2 A
Yes.
3 Q
When the filters were changed out, were all the com-
,(_)
4 ponents changed?
i 5
A No.
Understand, the filter. by that, I mean the 6
filter system.
7 Q
What was changed?
8 A
The objective was to change the charcoal beds because 9
of damage during that evolution.
At least, in some instances 10 it was necessary to change out the HEPA filters.
II Q
What does HEPA stand for?
12 A
High efficiency particulate....
13 Q
What does the "A"
stand for?
(~)S L
14 A
If I thought about it long enough, I could think of 15 it.
Probably fine particulate --
16 Q
Who did the actual changing of the filters?
17 A
Met Ed employees, supplemented by some people that 18 were brought in from Pennsylvania Electric Company.
19 Q
Are you f amiliar with the precautions that were taken 20 with respect to any exposure to radioactivity which would be 21 experienced by the persons changing the filters?
22 A
Yes.
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23 Q
Could you tell me what precautions were taken?
24 A
A considerable part of the effort was to develop air Ace-@
l rieporters, Inc.
25 breathing systems so they would have sufficient stay time and I
14 rw I
acceptable air to work with.
I was familiar with the kind of
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protective clothing that was used; multiple layers.
The ALERA 2
3 group worked with us in a general sense to develop appropriate
()
4 radiological protection clothing and breathing systems.
5 O
Was a breatning system which was appropriate already 6
available at the site or did one have to be obtained?
7 A
We obtained it.
8 Q
From where did you obtain it?
9 A
I believe we brought in a breathing air compressor.
10 Where it came from, I'm not quite sure.
I believe it was II Westinghouse.
12 Q
What kind of apparatus was employed?
I3 A
An electric motor driven compressor and a series of 73U Id high pressure air bottles.
Then hoses, masks, connectors, 15 hoods, standard manufactured -- it was a normal qualified air 16 breathing hood.
17 MR. DIENELT:
Off the record.
18 (Of f the record.)
19 MR. DIENELT:
Back on the record.
20 Mr. McConnell has provided us with a copy of the log and 21 diary which he maintained during his stay at TMI.
We will 22 examine it at the break.
If we want to get some parts of it t/
23 copied, we will discuss it after we examine it.
24 MS. RIDGWAY:
To clarify the record, it is more in Ace 4 I Repone,s, Inc, 25 the form of notes, rather than a log or diary.
15
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THE WITNESS:
Right; not a log by any means.
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2 BY MR. BELLAMY:
x_/
3 Q
First, do you consider yourself familiar with air
()
4 cleaning systems?
5 A
Not my specialty.
6 Q
So you would not consider yourself an expert in air 7
cleaning systens.
8 A
No.
9 Q
Would you consider yourself familiar with air filtra-10 tion systems?
Specifically, the carbon beds, HEPA filters, 11 de-misters, components such as that.
12 A
I am f amiliar with them.
13 7-Q Would you consider yourself an expert on those
(.,)'
I4 filter systems?
15 A
No.
16 Q
Are you familiar with NRC documents such as Reg 17 Guide 1.52?
18 A
I am aware of it but not expert.
19 Q
Thank you.
The specific topic that we were dis-20 cussing, the protective measures taken to keep radiation doses 21 as low as reasonably achievable during the change-out of the 22 r~s filters in the auxiliary building, you indicated that there L) 23 was an air supply brought in from offsite; an air compressor.
24 Was this air compressor used to fill tanks that were then used Am.
I Reporters, Inc.
25 by personnel changing out the filters?
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16 4
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A No, not in the air pack sense.
In the sense that the
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2 compressor was running continuously, operating an accumulator, i
V
.3 which allowed some dampening in the reservoir and some back-up
(^')'<
4 protection.
L.
5 Q
Did the personnel who changed out these filters wear 6
self-contained breathing apparatus such as a Scott Air Pack in 7
distinction from a respirator?
8 A
No.
What I am trying to describe is a life support 9
system that is a closed -- of some length; perhaps two hundred 10 feet.
So you were tied back to a large reservoir of air 11 provided by a breathing air compressor.
12 Q
So the person who changed out these filters wore 13 neither Scott Air Packs nor respirators but they had a continu-
[~)
14 ous supply of clean air from outside and they were connected to 15 this air continually by a hose connented to their hood back to 16 the --
17 A
Right.
The system is designed such that if you 18 break a hose, you have a finite amount of time judged to be 19 sufficient to simply walk back.
20 Q
Did you take part in any of the actual change-out?
21 A
I did not.
22 Q
Did you supervise the actual change-out?
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23 A
in an indirect sense.
24 O
Do you know where the change-out components came s>F,p_ ; Reporters, Inc.
~
25 from?
In other words, the supplier vendor.
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A Yes.
2 Q
Can you describe that for us, please, for both the (v~)
3 carbon filters and any other components that were changed?
(/~-)
4 A
The filters and HEPAs that were changed out -- at 5
least, the first couple of filter evolutions -- was replacement 6
material onsite that Met Ed ordered from NUCOM.
7 Q
So the first filters that were taken out and re-8 placed were replaced with filters already onsite prior to the 9
incident.
10 A
Correct.
11 Q
Where did the rest of the replacement filter trays 12 come from?
13 A
Othdr replacement material was ordered very early in
(.
14 the incident.
I believe it was MSA that was the supplier that 15 order was placed with.
16 Q
Are you familiar with the type of carbon that was 17 in these trays?
18 A
Yes.
The original material sas the MSA standard 19 carbon KI treated.
The replacement.naterial Met Ed had in 20 stock was additionally TEDA treated.
21 Q
Would you consider the response of MSA to be timely 22 in supplying this replacement carbon?
Did they respond to the
_s L) 23 emergency and say we will get you as much as we can as soon as 24 we can?
If we have to work around the clock, we will?
\\ce-I Reporters, Inc.
25 A
That was their response.
It would be a value I
4 18 Jne 1
judgment as to say whether that-was a good or bad response.
()
2 Wa didn't get it when we wished we had it but --
3 Q
Were there any other problems in getting either re-(s
(_)
4 placement carbon or replacement trays?,
5 A
Well, the only problem was that we did not have o
6 sufficient replacement of material in t'e right sequence.
7 Q
I believe Mr. Dienelt previously asked you whether 8
the filters were tested.
The question would probably fit bet-9 ter now.
Were these filter systems tested after the components 10 were changed prior to putting the filter system back into II operation?
12 A
They were not.
13 0
Do you know why?
(3~]
I4 A
Yes.
It was felt that, with the continued offsite 15 release of iodine, our objective was to get effective charcoal 16 material back in operation as soon as possible.
17 Q
Were you involved in that decision?
18 A
Yes.
19 0
And did you agree with the basis for that decision 20 at the time?
21 A
Yes.
22 Q
Are you familiar at all with the concept of impreg-f-
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23 nating carbon?
Do you knew how that is done?
24 A
only in a very general sense.
I have never person-L ace +7 y) neoonen, ine 25 ally seen it.
19 I
Q Are you familiar at all with the' term " dipping" a rw 7w 2
cell to -impregnate the carbon?
. L.]
3 A
I know,1at least in a hearsay sense, it is not the-
}
normal.way.to do it.
It is, to my knowledge, not the way that 4
5 we have done it here.
6 Q
Based on the knowledge you now have, there were no 7
cells dipped to impregnate carbon that were installed on TMI 8
during the time you were on site.
9 A
That's correct.
10 Q
Do you know, technically, why it is not recommended Il to dip a cell to get impregnate on the carbon?
I2 A
No.
13 O
Are you familiar with the distinction between the 14 auxiliary and fuel handling building filters in terms of 15 engineered safety features versus non-engineered safety I6 features?
17 A
Yes; no to the latter half.
18 2
Are you familiar with the depth of carbon in these 19 filter trays?
20 A
Yes.
21 Q
What is that depth?
22 A
'Two inches.
C
. %j) 23 Q
If these filters were deeper, do you think that 24 would have helped in mitigating the release of radiciodine?
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25 A
From an engineering point of view, the deeper, the I
i
20 rw 1-better.
That's not to say that two inches isn't adequate.
2 Four inches are better than two.
3 0
Uould you have more security at the time if you had
.(% -
4 these filters four inches deep instead of two inches deep?
5 A
No -- you better repeat the question.
6 Q
When you were on the island, you were informed --
7 or found out on your own -- that the filters were two inches 8
deep, as you previously testified.
Would you have felt more 9
secure in an engineering sense if, instead of finding out they 10 were two inches, you were informed they were three or four 11 inches?
12 A
I would have to say my expertise is insufficient to
-13 have made any considered judgment as to whether two was in-G
/
14 adequate or not.
15 0
Are you familiar at all with the operation of the 16 filter systems during the time you were on the island?
By 17 that, I mean when the filters were in operation and when they 18 were not in operation.
19 A
Generally.
There are some gaps in my knowledge of 20 that.
21 Q
Could you elaborate on that for me?
Were they on 22 normally?
Were they off normally?
What was the status of 23
'the filters?
24 A
The status of the filters, when I became aware of ke{
1 Reporters, Inc.
\\I 25 it, was that the exhaust fans were operating.
The two I
21 rw 1
auxiliary and the two fue). Bandling-building' trays were operat-2
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ing.
The supply air fans cre off.~. They were attempting to 3
maintain maximum negative pressure in the aux building.
s 4
)
Q Are you familiar at all with the test results that 5
NUCON performed on the carbon in the filter systems at theftime 6
of the accident?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
Do you remember enough about those results to indi-9 cate to us if the auxiliary or the fuel handling building 10 filters saw more radioactivity during the time of the accident II up to the change-out?
I2 A
My recollection of the result was iodine activity.
13 O
Iodine-131, is that correct?
O I4 A
I recall I left here with the impression that the 15 fuel handling building trays saw more iodine.
It was not 16 intuitive that that should be the case.
17 Q
Do you know why that filter system saw more iodinc?
18 A-It probably was a consequence of when the overloaded I9 reactor coolant water went and where the major evolution pass i
20 of the iodine was.
It was pretty much unknown at that time.
21 Q
Were you familiar at the time you arrived on the l
22 island with the condition of the carbon prior to the time you
)
23 arrived on the is]and?
2#
A I had no prior knowledge of carbon.
f~s hee-F Reporters, Inc.
25
'~'
Q Were you familiar at all with the technical i
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22
~l specifications on the fuel handling building carbon?
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2 A
I was not.
3 Q
Are you aware of the supplement ary auxiliary filters
)-
4 now installed and in operation on top of the aux building?
5 A
Yes.
6 0
Were you involved at all in the decision to obtain 7
and install those filters?
8 A.
No.
9 Q
Do you know when they were obtained and installed?
10 A
Well, I am familiar with parts and pieces of the Il evolution.
12 O
You were not intimately involved with the process of 13 obtaining them or getting them installed, is that correct?
14 A
I guess I am trying to describe the circumstances 15 where I'was not a direct line function in it but I came in and 16 I think I ended up writing a letter for Dick Wilson's signa-17 ture, a promise we would pay the Air Force to fly -- I was 18 somewhat involved.
I9 Q
Do you know who supplied the filters?
20 A
MSA.
21 Q
Do you know where they came from?
o 22 A
Yes.
They were flown.in from Washington State with N.)
23
.the systems.
24 Q
And the decision to obtain the filters was not your hp%,J Reporters, Inc.
25 decision.
I
23 rw 1
A No.
,n
()
2 O
Do you know what type of carbon is installed in that 3
filter system?
i
'4 A-I believe it's KIG.
We attempted to accomplish TEDA 5
treating but'it was not possible in the schedule we had.
6 Q
Are you familiar enough with those filter systems to 7
know if they were in place tested prior to use?
8 A
They were.
9 Q
Do you know who made the decision to install the 10 supplementary aux filters on the roof?
II A
No, I don't.
That decision was made -- it would 12 have been within a day or two of the accident.
13 O
Meaning prior to April 1.
Id A
Yes.
15 Q
Have you followed the operaticn of the supplementary 16 aux filters since you left the --
17 A
No.
18 Q
Have you followed the operation of the fuel handling 19 building since you eft?
20 A
I have r.ot.
21 BY MR. DIENELT:
22 O
Did you have any role in any of the liquid releases 23 made between March 30 and April 15?
24 Q
A No.
kce F,
- Reporvrs, Inc.
25 0-Did you have any role in arranging for assessing the I
t
24
,rw 1
monitoring for releases which were made?
()
2 A
Liquid?
3 Q
Liquid or gas.
O-
. \\,)
4 A
I was involved i'n attempting to recover HPR-2197 5
Q What did you do?
6 A
People who were working with me obtained a new 7
monitor system and that was installed in the vent stack.
8 0
Was it your view that the monitoring system that was 9
replaced was not reliable?
10 A
It was replaced because it was monitoring a circum-11 stance that it wasn't capable of monitoring.
12 Q
In what sense was it incapable of monitoring?
13 A
It was saturated with xenon and was trying to pick 14 out a little bit of iodine activity from the huge activity of 15 the noble gas or something.
It couldn't discriminate.
16 Q
Did you have monitoring results from the HPR-219 17 prior to the change of the filter?
18 A
Yes.
Let me clarify what that is.
Rather than 19 letting the monitor -- it normally seec a charcoal filter, a 20 very small one, and measures the rate of increase of activity 21 on it.
This was done by a routine eight hour change-out of 22 cartridges and they were sent to the laboratory so, in a sense, 23 219 wasn't doing the men.4toring; it was done by sampling.
24 f3
_Q With respect to iodine, was it your view that the sce4y) Reporters, Inc.
l 25
.results of the testing of the cartridge or the sampling of the i
I
(
25 rw.
I cartridge provided a reliable indication of the amount of g
2 iodine being released?
3 A
The sampling cartridges?
4 Q
Yes.
e 5
A Yes.
6 Q
Are you familiar with -- and did you have any role 7
with respect.to -- any temporary piping that was installed to 8
pipe gasses back into the containment from the make-up tank, 6'
the waste gas decay tank, the reactor coolant bleed tank or the Il like?
I *'
A I waa involved in discussions of it.
I had no 12 specific assignment.
13 0
Who made the decision to do that?
Do you know?
O Id A
It was not done in the early phases, not, at least, 15 by the waste management group.
It was the onsite engineering 16 group who did the piping.
17 0
When you took over the control and management of 18 matters relating to waste gas, was the piping already 19 installed?
20 A
Yes.
21 Q
Have you used the piping in any way?
22 A-The-piping, in my recollection, was used.
O~
23 Q
Do you have the time period in which it was used?
\\.
24 A
No.
ce[S ceoonen, Inc.
l 25 0
Do you recall that it was used after you became t
26 haf 1
involved in the waste management effo_t?
- f)l ~
2 A
Yes.
x 3
-Q Do you recall for approximately how long a period it
-()
4 was?
'S A
I think it was a few days.
It is my recollection 6
.it was a few days.
l 7
Q Dc you know where the pipes came from?
8 A
I don't know the specific details.
All I know is it j
9 was a pipe going back from the waste gas hold-up tank back to W
the containment.
11 Q
Did the pipes leak?
12 A
I don't know.
There were doubts.
I was never aware
-13 of any resolution of those doubts one way or the other.
14 0
Were they useful in the operation?
15 A
I believe they were.
16 O
In what respect?
17 A
There was concern that we were overpressurizing the 18 waste gas hold-up tanks.
It was necessary to relieve that tank 19 pressure.
20 0
Did you achieve that function?
21 A
I believe so.
22 Q
What have your responsibilities been in control and 23 management of waste gas?
24 A
During the period I was here?
7_
p4v) neoomn. Inc.
25 0
Yes.
l l
L l
27 rw 1
A Say that question again, rm 2
(_)
Q What did you'do?
3 A
I guess my responsibilities were focused on the O(_)
4 filter change-out and I had a man or two following the supple-5 mental system that was going up on the aux building roof, in 6
the installation and start-up and engineering sense.
7 Q
Was it your principal responsibility to design when 8
the change-out of filters would take place?
9 A
Well, that was a shared responsibility but I might 10 say that once it was recognized they ought to be changed, the II change-out progressed as rapidly as we cou3 d reasonably do it.
I2 There were no overt decisions to do it or not to do it after 13
(~S that; it was completely accomplished the best way we could.
LJ Id Q
What was the basis on which a decision was made to 15 change-out the filter?
16 A
The belief that they were ineffective.
Let's not ss 17 ineffective -- that's a bad word -- but let's say they had less 18 effectiveness, significantly less effectiveness, than new l9 filters.
20 Q
How was that performed?
21 A
By the sampling efforts.
22
/-)
Q Are you familiar with the tank farm?
L_J 23 A-If, by that, you mean the tanks that were put into the refueling pool --
24 w.eir.manm.ine.
25 0
Yes.
Do you know how much liquid there is in the i
I
28 rw-I tanks?
2 A
No.
3 0
or what the composition of the liquid is?
.()
4 A
No.
I must say that I left the site before the tank 5
farm was completed.
I have no knowledge of what transpired on 6
the tank farm since.
7 Q
Do you know Mr. William Graber?
8 A
Yes.
T 9
Q Did you have any role in arranging for him to come 10 to the site?
II A
Yes.
12 O
Can you tell me about that?
13 A
Saturday, I was in Parsippany and I was asked by Mr.
(
I4 Dieckamp if I knew of any available health physics type 15 expertise that we could get and put on the site.
I made a 16
. phone call to Graber at home.
I requested Electric Boat to dis-17 patch some health physics and technician type people to TMI.
18 MS. RIDGWAY:
Which Saturday are you speaking about?
I9 THE WITNESS:
That would be the 31st.
20 BY MR. DIENELT:
2I Q
What is Electric Boat?
.22 A.
They are a ship-building subsidiary of General
. O, -
23 Dynamics.
l 24 Q
Does Mr. Graber work for Electric Boat?
$F n conm, inc.
25 A
He does.
l
.. ~.
29 Brw I
Q Did Mr. Dieckamp tell you why he wanted additional
(
2 health physicists on the island?
3 A
He did not, no, other than the sense that we needed J
4 as much help as we could possibly lay our hands on.
5 Q
Have you spoken to Mr. Graber between the 28th and 6
the 31st?
7 A
- yes, 8
Q Had he called you or had you called him?
9 A
I believe he called me.
I was aware that he was 10 attempting to form an Electric Boat service to support utili-Il ties in radiological engineering, planning, that sort of thing.
12 O
When you asked him for assistance on t'.e 31st, did I3 r1 he tell you he would provide it?
C' Id A
He told me he would check with his management.
15 Q
Did he get back to you?
16 A
He got back to me with the information that they 17 tare willing to assist us.
I believe heasked that Murray Miles 18 from Naval Reactors be talked to and I believe Mr. Dieckamp I9 discussed Electric Boat's participation with Murray Miles 20 prior to the committment being made.
21 Q
After the committment was made, did you have occasion, 22
('~')
to meet with Mr. Graber?
</
23 A
Yes.
Graber arrived Saturday afternoon, as I recall.
24 r~N He came into the interface offices and met with Mr. Dieckamp.
Lee F
, Reporters, Inc.
)
25 Q
Were you present at the meeting with Mr. Dieckamp?
I
30 rw 1
A I was not.
2 Q
Did you tell Mr.-Graber what his role would be at 3
Three Mile Island?
()
4 A
Other than to describe a health physics and radio-5 logical control miss, ion; that is all.
6 Q
Did you tell him he would be in charge of the health 7
physics operation at TMI?
8 A
I did not.
9 0
To your knowledge, did Mr. Dieckamp tell him that?
10 A
I have no knowledge.
Il O
Mr. Dieckamp did not tell you he told Mr. Graber that?
12 A
No, I don't recall that he did.
He may have.
I 13 guess he was aware that Graber left with the understahding that
(_)
14 he was to help formulate an HP function here, an expanded 15 function, if you would, to deal with the situation.
16 0
Did you understand that he left with the impression 17 or the understanding thathe was going to be in charge of the 18 health physics program here for the duration of the emergency 19 response?
20 A
I can't say that.
I only left him with the impres-21 sion of the mission and how it was going to evolve.
22 O
It was not your understanding that he was being G
23 brought down to be in charge.
24 A
No, or that he wasn't.
That was an organizational 7,
co Fs
) Ceporters, Inc.
25 detail that I did not get involved in.
I i
1 CR 6987
- 2 31 rtl -1 1
Q Mr. Dieckamp is over you in the organization, is
( })
2 that right?
3 A
Yes.
( )
4 BY MR. BELLAMY:
5 Q
I have a few follow-up questions.
On the monitor-6 ing and installation of HPR-219, I believe that you have 7
indicated that the charcoal cartridges taken from the sama 8
location as HPR-219, in your opinion, when analyzed would 9
present a reliable indication of the iodine 131 release that 10 went out that stack?
11 A
At the point at which silver zeolite impregnated 12 cartridges were being used, yes, I would think it would be 13 reliable data on iodine release.
V 14 0
Was there a time when a different adsorbant was 15 used besides silver zeolite in these cartridges?
16 A
I understand that, yes.
Routinely they would not 17 be silver zeolite.
18 0
When was the first installation using silver 19 zeolite used at location HPR-2197 20 A
I don't know.
21 Q
Did you use the results of the analysis of these 22 cartridges to do any calculations to predict the amount of V
23 iodine 11 that was released?
24 A
I did no calculations of iodine release.
There Ace Reponm, inc.
25 were other experts.
I i
rtl 2 32 I
Q Did you do any calculations of notable gas releases?
2 A
I didn't.
3 You talked a little bit about the responsibilities 0
7 that you had for the change-out of the filters in the aux and 5
fuel handling building and the installation of the supplementary 6
auxiliary filters on top of the auxiliary building.
Could 7
you characterize your role as a managerial one?
8 A
Yes.
9 0
When the filters -- when the components in the 10 filter system, if the auxiliary and fuel handling building II filter changed out, I believe you testified that the primary 12 component you were changing were the charcoal trays?
13
')
A That is correct.
v Q
has the process of changing out the carbon the Id cause of any damage to the HEPA filters?
15 I0 A
It was.
I7 Q
Could you elaborate on that for me, please?
18 A
Yes.
The removal side of the charcoal filter bank I9 backs up against HEPA filters.
Normally there is 3 feet of 20 space or a little more than that between the trays of charcoal 2I and the HEPAs.
It was a tight working area.
Workmen were in 22 hooded suits.
At least three layers of clothing and gloves.
[v) 23 A very difficult area.
Unfortunately, damaged the HEPAs.
Q The HEPA filters are --
2d gI Reporters, Inc.
Ace-A Extremely fragile.
25 l
rtl 3 33 1
Q Thank you.
That was the question.
J")
2 A
Having learned it the hard way, we responded in the x_/
3 next train by providing some protective material over the fj 4
HEPAs to try to minimize or prevent HEPA damage.
v 5
Q What type of protective material was there?
6 A
I believe it was plywood.
7 Q
Would you say that the cause of the damage to t he 8
HEPAs was a lack of understanding on the part of the 9
maintenance men changing them out or simply a lack of space?
l 10 A
A lack of space.
11 O
Would you recommend in the future there be more 12 space left between the charcoal bank and the HEPA filters for i
13 specifically the purpose of no damage to the HEPAs when you
(~'s
\\)
~
14 change out the carbon?
15 A
I believe a little more space would be helpful.
16 I don't see a lot more space as necessary.
I think it would 17 be useful to recognize the HEPA filter sensitivity, if you 18 would, and to provide means to physically protect them.
It 19 would be adequate.
20 Q
You would recommend there be considered in the 21 design of the filter systems, that adequate change out space 1
22 be considered in the design?
A Yes.
23 24 Q
Was there, to your knowledge, any activation of sce dlh newnm. Inc.
25 the water sprays in the filter systems during the time you 1
l
rtl 4 34 I
were on the Island?
.{ }
2 A
Yes.
3 Q
Do you know when that occurred?
i()
4 A
It occurred on the first filter bank that we 5
changed out.
6 Q
Did it occur prior to or after you changed the 7
8 A
Prior, I believe.
9 Q
What caused the activation of the water sprays?
10 A
A combination of valve line-up and the sensor 11 elements being broken by the workmen during the change out.
12 Q
What type of sensor elements would these be?
13 A
Fire detector.
The details of them I don't know.
.s 14 They are physical tamperature detectors that trigger the 15 deluge system.
These apparently were broken during the 16 change out and when the system was being restarted or what 17 have you, the deluge valves tripped.
18 O
These are temperature sensors, is that the word 19 you used?
20 A
Yes.
I would call them fire detectors.
I assume 21 they are temperature sensors.
They might be --
22 O
You are not familiar enough with them to comment?
23 What did you do when the water sprays were activated?.
24 A
I don't fully recall.
Things were cleaned up,
7_
Lc.#g reporters, inc.
25 restarted.
l 4
L
m 35 1
Q Do you mean the carbon was replaced by cleaned up?
( )
2 A
If my memory is correct, they tripped while the old 3
carbon was there, so they simply completed the chance out.
')
4 But that is my recolleccion.
I am not dead certain.
5 0
Would you describe for me, please, your interface 6
with the NRC people onsite once you became involved with the 7
waste management area?
8 A
Yes.
We kept NRC apprised generally through Mr.
9 Collins several times a day of our progress plans, results.
10 0
There was a good working relationship?
11 A
Yes.
They were involved in both the planning and 12 monitoring and generally participated in the decision-making.
Did you "onsider their presence onsite during that x
13 Q
c O
14 time period and specifically for the areas you were involved 15 with, did you consider their presence onsite a. help or 16 hindrance to the recovery operation on TMI?
17 A
I think it was generally a help.
)
18 MR. DIENELT:
Off the record.
19 (Off the recc
-)
20 MR. DIENELT:
Back on the record.
We have asked for a copy of the notes which Mr.
21 22 McConnell kept during his time at Three Mile Island, and we
(..)
understand they will be copies and made available in due 23 I
24 course.
feeF L Ceporters, Inc, 1
25 i
rtl 6 36 1
BY MR. BELLANN:
2 0
Are you familiar at all with the filters that were 3
installed on the main condenser air ejector over Unit 27 4
A Yes.
5 0
Were you involved in the procurement of those 6
filters?
7 A
No.
8 0
Do you know where the filters were obtained from?
9 A
American Air Force.
10 0
Do you know when they were obtained?
11 A
Very early in April.
That particular project was 12 conducted out of Burns and Rowe.
13 0
Do you have any knowledge of the procedure of O
14 venting the make-up tank in Unit 2 through vent valve BUV-13?
15 A
No.
16 BY MR. DIENELT:
17 0
Prior to the time that Mr. Graber came to the site, 18 did you have any confersations with Mr. Herbein or anyone else 19 at the site regarding what Mr. Graver's role would be?
20 A
No.
.21 0
Su'osequent to that time,.did you have any discussions 1
() -
22 with Mr. Herbein regarding Mr. Graver's. ole?
l 23 A
My only discussions with Mr. Herbein were related 24 to the fact that Herbein wished to discuss Graver's role.
7 kcs.F Reporters, Inc.
25 He wished to discuss with me what his role would be.
rtl 7 37 i
1 Q
Did you make arrangements for a meeting between 2
Mr. Herbein and Mr. Graver?
~{}
3 A
I did.
4 0
.To your knowledge, did that meeting take place?
I) 5 A
Yes.
6 Q
Did you ever hear what the substance of that meeting 7
was?
8 A
Oh, I did, but I am not --
9 Q
Do you recall what it was?
10 A
The nature of it was trying to define the function 11 of the line HP organization of Three Mile Island.
12 Q
Did you --
13 A
I had the impression there was some sort of an O
- 14 understanding, if you would, which may not mean that both 15 sides came away pleased, but there was some understanding at 16 least formulated as to their roles.
17 MR. DIENELT:
I have nothing further. I will 18 adjourn the deposition.
I doubt very seriously we will have 19 any reason to want to call you back.
If we do want to ask 20 you to come back, we will try to make arrangements through 21 your counsel.
22 Thank you very much.
-(
l 23 (Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m.,
the deposition was l
24 concluded.)
F
) Reporters, Inc.
25 i
m.